September 8, 2025 • 50 mins
What if grief was a process to access more bliss in your every day life? Angela Clement, former school principal, is a speaker, writer, energy healer, intuitive and the creator and host of the Awaken Your Soul’s Journey Podcast and Summit Series on grief. When her husband Blaine was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer in January 2021, Angela used her knowledge of energy healing to help him with his symptoms and her through the intense emotion. As a certified grief coach, powerful healer and intuitive Angela provides one on one and group grief support, guidance and healing for those suffering from loss.
📙Get Angela's Book Awakening Through Grief Here.
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Episode Transcript
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Anglea (00:00):
We are told that we shouldn't cry, that we should be
strong, that we shouldn't bejealous, that we shouldn't be
angry, that we shouldn't be allof these things, right?
And so we're trying to be thethat person that we've told we
were told we should be.
And it just doesn't workbecause as I said, grief is a
(00:21):
process, and part of thisprocess is that emotions will
come up and you have to addressthem.
Ryann (00:34):
Welcome back to the show.
Today I'm sitting down withAngela Clement.
She's a former schoolprincipal, she's a speaker, a
writer, an energy healer, andhost of the Awaken Your Souls
Journey podcast.
Angela lost her husbandunexpectedly in 2021, and now
she teaches on brief.
This conversation was so timelyfor me because my family and I
(00:57):
lost my beloved 98-year-oldgrandma last week, actually the
night before the first day ofschool here from our kids.
And so I talk about it in theinterview.
At one point, my husband lookedat me, looked me square in the
face and said, When are yougonna grieve?
And I tell the story about howI ended up grieving.
(01:18):
I really wanted it to be aconversation about how we deal
with grief in our culture.
And so if you're not currentlydealing with grief, I'm sure you
have dealt with grief.
I'm sure you have someone inyour life who's dealing with
grief.
And I want to really normalizelike showing up for somebody.
So we talk a lot aboutemotional intelligence and how
(01:40):
to feel our feelings and thedifference between grief and
mourning.
And then, of course, also howAngela turned her pain into
purpose.
And Angela's also defined griefin a way that I think is
really, really helpful for somany of us because it helps us
kind of zoom out and take a lookat what grief actually is and
(02:03):
the different steps that need tohappen in order for us to still
live happy and fulfillinglives, even if we've lost
someone we love.
So I hope you guys enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
It's practical, it's heartfelt,and I can't wait for you guys
to hear it.
So let's jump in.
(02:23):
Hi, Angela.
Welcome to the Raising WildHearts podcast.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Anglea (02:33):
It's fun to be here.
Ryann (02:34):
Yeah, I'm really excited that you're here.
And this conversation, ofcourse, is perfect timing for a
couple of different reasons.
And I just, the universe hasbeen so funny lately, and God
has been just like winking at mewith uh timing of different
conversations that I've had.
And this is one of those.
(02:56):
Um, and we'll get into a coupledifferent reasons for that.
But first, I really want toframe this conversation as a
cultural kind of dialogue abouthow we manage or deal with grief
in our culture, in NorthAmerica at least.
Um, and maybe some things thatwe get wrong about it and some
different ways to think about itand then to support ourselves
(03:20):
and others really in this griefprocess because we are human,
and as we know, we are all goingto lose somebody or have, you
know, something happen to usthat produces a feeling of loss
in our lives.
And so I'm really excited todive into this conversation.
With that being the frame,first I want to start with you,
(03:41):
Angela, and just what atestament your work is to
turning pain into purpose.
So would you just like speak onthat pain into purpose piece
for a little bit?
Anglea (03:56):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I had no idea whatgrief was going to do.
I really just thought that um Ididn't know what to think.
The rug had been pulled outfrom underneath of me, and I
felt like with my husband gone,uh, my entire life had changed.
(04:18):
And it seemed like because Iretired as well at the same
time, and we moved to a newcommunity, it it was just like
everything had changed.
So there was so much loss andso much grief all at once.
And it felt like, you know, weeven lost two pets in there.
(04:39):
We lost our dog and our cat inthat time frame.
And so it was just so much.
And I I felt myself wonderingwhat life would be like now,
because it had been amazing upuntil that point.
I felt like I had the bestlife.
(04:59):
And I wondered if that was theend, if that was the end of all
the fun, if that was the end ofthe happiness, that I would just
live the rest of my life inpain.
And so I went out seeking.
And you talk about culturalthings, you know, there was a
lot of messages out there thatwere telling me that yes, I
(05:20):
would grieve for a lifetime.
And that was devastating forme, you know, to hear that I was
going to be in this much painfor the rest of my life.
And there wasn't a lot ofpeople that could I could talk
to really.
And I felt like culturally, wedon't talk about grief, we tend
(05:44):
to kind of avoid it.
Like we don't want to talkabout death, we don't want to
talk about people leaving ourlives.
It feels scary, and and so I Ididn't know what to do.
So I was looking for hope.
I was looking for someone whosaid, you know what, you are
(06:05):
gonna get over this, you aregonna get through this, you are
going to be happy again, and soit took a while, but I did find
that hope.
And I am so grateful today thatthere are people out there that
will talk about grief, thatwill help you through this
(06:26):
process.
And grieving forever has atotally different um perspective
for me than it did back then.
It certainly isn't adevastating thing anymore.
Ryann (06:42):
Right.
How is it shifted for you?
Anglea (06:44):
Yeah, I think that it was the definition of grief that
really shifted it for me.
And when you look in thedictionary, the definition of
grief is very different, evenamong dictionaries.
I think because everybody'sgrief is so different.
It depends on the relationshipyou had with the person you lost
or the thing you lost.
(07:05):
Grief became a process thathelps us let go of something
that we've lost.
And it's, I believe it's aGod-given process because when
we come to this earth, we'regoing to experience loss right
from the beginning when we leavethe womb.
We've left a place that we werehappily hanging out.
(07:28):
And sometimes we have to leaveour favorite teacher to move on
to the next grade, or we have toleave home to go to university.
Those are all losses and theyall have us experiencing grief.
And so I believe the process ofgrief is continuous because we
are always letting go ofsomething.
Ryann (07:50):
One of the things you said is that we don't talk about
grief so much in our cultureand you didn't have anybody
really to talk to.
I wonder if part of losingsomeone specifically we love to
death forces us, invites usrather, to face our own
mortality.
(08:10):
And I wonder if we just can'thandle that in so many ways.
And so we bypass it, we brushit under the rug, we numb it
because we don't want to facethe fact that we are all
actually going to die andreckoning with how are we gonna
live?
Anglea (08:27):
I believe that grief really forces you to look at
that, and it is interestingbecause since I lost my husband,
the fear of death is not likeit was for me, because I feel
like it's not the end, it's atransition to something new, and
(08:49):
so it's not something to beafraid of, and it's not
something to be sad aboutnecessarily, although we lose
that physical connection, andthat's really hard and it's
really devastating.
But uh understanding thatthey're not gone, that they're
(09:11):
still around us is how I gotthrough this, and so and that's
how many um understand that.
And I think coming to termswith your own faith and your own
truth and your ownunderstanding, I think is the
best thing.
It doesn't mean that my truthis your truth, everybody has
(09:34):
their own faith andunderstanding about life, but it
does force you to look at itand to figure it out for you.
Ryann (09:44):
Yeah.
So since we're recording this,it's been about four years,
right, since your husband'spassing.
How do you find that youconnect with him these days?
Anglea (09:56):
Um I find that he like for me, I had an experience
before he passed away where Ifelt like I was sitting beside
him and I felt this energy kindof going up.
And and I felt like it wasconnecting with his energy.
(10:17):
And it was this strangeexperience that I can't really
hardly explain.
But after he passed, I realizedthat I could use that same
connection to connect to hisessence and feel his energy, and
so I'm always feeling it aroundme, and I often will get little
um either messages or signsthat he is there, and and so
(10:45):
it's very comforting to knowthat.
And I've also in the process ofmy grief um worked with energy
healing and energy healers alot, and sometimes messages
would come through them as well,and they would be just blow
your mind profound.
And so it really helped comfortme, understanding that he is
(11:09):
truly here with me, and I canfeel his presence now, actually.
Um, and it's not that wenecessarily have a two-way
conversation all the time, butit is like I can talk to him and
just know that he's there, andI know what he's I guess what
(11:34):
he's um that that love andsupport is there, and I can feel
it.
Ryann (11:40):
Yeah.
What do you think death canteach us about life?
Anglea (11:47):
Uh well, I think that one thing I really learned is
that you know, this life is onelife.
We know that, and we want tolive it to the fullest.
We don't want to waste it.
And so what I've found is I seethings that are important to
(12:10):
me, and I see the things thatare less important, and there is
a huge distinction now.
It used to be before I wouldjust accept whatever was coming
and kind of roll with whatever,and now I'm a little more
deliberate in, you know, if Ireally don't want to do
something, I pretty much don'tdo it.
(12:32):
Amen to that.
But it's like sure there arethings that you there are
choices that you can make inlife.
And if you want to go on thattrip or you want to, you know,
learn something new, then youjust do it.
(12:53):
You don't wait for retirement,you don't wait for, you know,
well, when my kids are gone, youknow, you just do it now.
Yeah.
Ryann (13:06):
So my grandmother transitioned a we about a week
ago.
It was Sunday night, and it wasSunday night around 11 p.m.
And my I never keep my phoneringer on.
And for some reason, my phoneringer was on that day.
And so my husband woke up to myphone ringer, and it was my mom
(13:29):
calling in the middle of thenight saying that my grandmother
had passed in her sleep.
She was 98 and she had just afull, rich, beautiful life.
She was surrounded by familyfor many of the last like years.
I mean, this woman had familyin and out, just you know,
loving her for the past numberof years, myself included.
(13:50):
And so um it was an interestingthing because the next day was
the first day of school for mykids.
And it was, we, you know, wekind of woke up in the night.
My husband told me whathappened because he's the one
who answered the phone.
I snuggled up with him, I lethim kind of hold me, and we
drifted off to sleep.
And then it's like up and athim, you know, and we're getting
(14:13):
the kids ready for school andwe're making the breakfast and
the lunches and taking the firstday back pictures and then
meeting the parents in theparking lot.
And then, of course, we haddifferent work obligations and
work projects, and so that wenton for about two days.
And Tuesday, midday, my husbandsaid he looked at me straight
in the face and he said, Whenare you gonna grieve?
(14:34):
And I said, I don't know, Ijust don't have time right now.
And and what a weird and crazything to even say.
And and I just like love thathe asked me that question
because I he knew that I hadn'tlost it yet.
I hadn't fallen apart, I hadn'treally like talked about it or
gotten into my eternalexperience at all.
(14:56):
And that night after the kidswent to bed, I just lost it.
And the tears came and Ifinally like just like fell
apart in his arms.
And I was like, Well, I guessI'm gonna grieve now, you know,
like here's the time.
And it's just such a funnything that I think in our
(15:19):
culture we are told like, pushon, move on, there are things to
be done.
Who's got time for that?
And it was only when I was ableto get really still and really
silent and back into my body andand just nothing else to do,
um, that I was able to like, ohmy gosh, this was here.
And it was under the surfaceall along.
(15:41):
And so all of this to say,like, is this what many people
are doing with grief?
Are we saying, like, not now?
I don't have time for that,maybe later.
Oh, yeah.
And what do we, what do we do?
Anglea (15:54):
Yeah, we are.
And part of it is because wedon't want to feel that feeling.
It's it's really tough.
They're the emotions are reallystrong.
And also, we are told that weshouldn't cry, that we should be
strong, that we shouldn't bejealous, that we shouldn't be
(16:14):
angry, that we shouldn't be allof these things, right?
And so we're trying to be thethat person that we've told we
were told we should be.
And it just doesn't workbecause as I said, grief is a
process, and part of thisprocess is that emotions will
come up and you have to addressthem.
(16:35):
And I was guilty too of youknow being really busy, and I
that's still my go-to, you know.
If I'm starting to feel, I justget busier and busier and
busier.
Yep.
And now I know it, right?
And it's interesting watchingmyself do that and then have to
stop myself and say, okay, no,you need to sit down, have some
(16:59):
quiet time, and let thisprocess.
Ryann (17:04):
Yeah.
Oh, it's so multifaceted, and Ilove that emotions came up
because as children, you know, II thought there were three
emotions.
I thought it was like happy,sad, mad, you know, that it's
it's very nuanced, right?
And um, like you said, and Inever thought about it like
this, but our first kind of setof grief is like separating from
(17:28):
our mom.
Like, you know, going comingout into the world and looking
at the bright lights, or youknow, if you were blessed to be
like born at home or something,or at a birthing center, maybe
it's like a little more mellow,but being like, oh my God, what
is this place?
Right.
And having it start so young.
And then as toddlers were told,like, here, have a cookie, or
(17:49):
no, don't be sad, or you'refine, you're okay.
And so it's this very, verydeep process of indoctrination
where we've been told not tofeel.
And it's like, well, why wouldwe feel now?
Why would we start now?
Right.
So I'm curious if for you thiswas your first time in your life
that you had to feel and if yourealized, like, oh, well, here
(18:14):
it is, because you said life wasgood.
You were chugging along, likeeverything was great.
And then the bottom fell out.
So how did you learn how tofeel?
And was that like your firsthurrah with learning to feel
your feelings?
Anglea (18:27):
Yeah, it was actually.
And I probably wouldn't havefigured that out so quickly,
except I had a grief coach.
And that was kind of the firstthing she taught me was that you
have to address these emotions.
Like you can't, she equated itto holding a beach ball under
(18:48):
water, and you can keep thatunder there for a while, but
then eventually it's gonna flyup in your face, right?
And I remember back, you know,when I had emotional moments,
they were tsunamis, like therewasn't this nice little cry.
It was like once the floodgatesopened, it it didn't stop, you
(19:12):
know, and it was just yeah, andI think about that now, and I
think the reason was I washolding everything, I was
holding it all the time.
And when it blew up, it therewas no stopping.
And so now I find, you know, ifI take the time and I have my
(19:33):
little cry, or I write, or I gofor a walk, or I do the things
that help release that energy,then you know, it doesn't have
to be.
It can be, but it doesn't haveto be the tsunami.
Ryann (19:49):
Yeah.
I had a period of my life whereI said, I would say so often,
like, if I start crying, I willnever stop.
I'm so afraid I will neverstop.
Like, I won't be able to climbout of this just like dark hole.
And for me, I lost my dad whenI was like basically a toddler.
(20:12):
He divorced, him and my momdivorced, and then we moved to a
different state, thousands ofmiles away.
And so I never had arelationship with him.
And throughout my childhood,it, you know, it wasn't talked
about, right?
It was the 80s, and I think weknew some back then, but my, you
know, my parents weren'tinterested in finding me a
therapist and having me journalmy feelings out.
(20:34):
Like it was just like, okay,moving on.
Like we come on.
Like my mom like got remarried.
She's like, let's buy a littlehouse, let's have a nice little
life, like everything's good.
But me, you know, as this kid,it was I remembered and I, you
know, and I it something alwaysjust like felt off.
But years later, decades later,I was like, oh no, here's the
(20:58):
beach ball coming up from thewater.
And I had it happened tocoincide with the time I had
kids, like, you know, very, verydivinely orchestrated, and it
was all for a reason, right?
But so I had to wait decades,and finally the beach ball came
up, and I was just like, oh myGod, I'm never gonna feel normal
(21:19):
again.
And um, the truth was what feltnormal was just like numbing,
ignoring, you know, kind ofsidestepping those those hard
feelings.
And you said you hinted to likeall feelings are is energy.
And so what makes us so scaredto to feel what we're feeling
(21:44):
inside our body?
Like, where do you think thatalmost like primal fear comes
from?
Anglea (21:51):
Yeah, well, I think it does come from when we're little
and we're told not to, becauseif you notice, you know, babies
will just cry.
They're not they're notstopping it.
Doesn't matter what you say orwhat you don't know.
Ryann (22:06):
They're like, Oh, I shouldn't cry right now.
Let me dry my eyes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they cry and they they'llbut they'll go forward.
Anglea (22:11):
And they just, you know, they move through whatever it
was, um, and they they move andthey are able to let go of
whatever.
And we like to hang on andresist, and it's painful, it's
really, really painful.
(22:32):
And so when you talk aboutbeing in that dark hole, we
sometimes refer to it as thedark night of the soul, you
know, like that that place whereyou don't think you're ever
coming out, you're stuck in thathole.
I was there, it was Mother'sDay, and I I wasn't prepared, I
(22:52):
didn't think that Mother's Daywould be an issue.
I I don't know why, but I justthought, you know, I'd been
through Christmas, I'd beenthrough Easter, and that was
tough, but I thought Mother'sDay will be okay.
It's about my kids, right?
But no, I was missing myhusband, you know, bringing me
(23:13):
the flowers or taking me out todinner or whatever.
And I just went into thisspiral, and I remember sitting
and thinking, I'm never comingout of this.
Like I'm in this now, andasking all the questions like,
why am I still here?
Why is my husband gone?
Why did all of this happen?
(23:35):
You know, what is life aboutanyway?
I don't even know if I believeanything.
You know, you just get intothis place.
Yeah.
And it's it's not pleasant.
It really isn't.
And so I always recommend whenyou get into that place to find
some support because walkingthrough that by yourself is
(23:57):
tough.
It is.
Ryann (24:01):
Yeah, that's the time to call the practitioner, the
therapist, the the reallytrusted friend, you know,
somebody, somebody, right?
Um, and that's actually what Idid.
I worked with a number ofdifferent practitioners and
therapists and and healers, etcetera.
Um, and it turns out I gotstuck a little bit in like a
(24:21):
healing loop, which I've beentalking about kind of a bit on
the podcast, of like, of likenever being done, never being
good enough.
And that was for certain like alimiting belief of like, well,
I have to keep working athealing.
Like I'm not healed yet.
Like I'm not done.
Uh, and I think um it's animportant distinction to
remember of like getting intothat loop then, because it's the
(24:45):
same loop, it's the same darkhole, it just looks a little bit
different, but you're stillkind of stuck in this wheel of
suffering a bit.
What's your take on that?
Anglea (24:53):
Yes, oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And and the funny thing is, isthat, you know, when I stepped
into spirituality, it was like,okay, well, now I've got it
figured out, right?
I understand what my truth is.
I'm I'm this spiritual being,and you know, everything's good.
And then the human part of youis screaming at you.
(25:17):
Yep.
You need to acknowledge thatyou are a human on this earth,
and I don't like what'shappening here.
And I it took me a long time torecognize that she needs that
attention too, not just thespiritual aspect.
And so, yeah, it's bringing youdown to earth and it's it's
(25:38):
helping to ground you.
And um it it takes support andsomebody that knows the path to
kind of help walk you throughthat.
Ryann (25:51):
Yeah.
I picture all of us as like,you know, little, little
whatever, I don't know, littlehumans, whatever, something on
this like kind of windy path,right?
And we each are sort of holdinglike a torch up, and there's
like people behind us, like,okay, like they can kind of see
the light in this like kind ofwoodsy foresty type place.
(26:14):
And we're all kind of likefollowing these torches of
light, right?
And and saying to the peoplebehind us, like, come on, just
trust you're like you're on theright path, like follow that
light, right?
And I, you know, there havebeen many teachers that I've
followed that light for.
Um, and so yeah, I agree.
It's so important to havesomebody who can reflect the the
(26:36):
beauty and the light and thehope and the love that's like
always available, even in thatdark place, you know, even when
it feels like it's just notpossible.
Um, I love that metaphor.
So can we talk about what thedifference between grief and
mourning is?
Anglea (26:54):
Oh, absolutely.
So mourning really is theprocess of expressing the grief,
and it is probably the mostimportant part if you want to
move through grief and you wantto help yourself heal and let
go.
That is what we need to do.
(27:16):
We need to mourn.
And mourning doesn't have to becrying necessarily, although I
find that a really good outlet.
Um, there's writing, there'sdrawing, there's painting,
there's cooking, there's allkinds of ways.
And I think everybody has theirown thing that they love to do.
(27:37):
Walks in nature generally helpeverybody.
And I can't stress enough, youknow, getting outside, getting
your feet on the ground, gettingwith the trees or the water or
whatever you've got, even aplant, you know, anything to
(27:58):
connect with nature so that youyou can feel that support and
nurturing from the earth.
I think we've all forgottenthat.
We we just didn't realize thatthat's that's part of the
process of living here is thatwe're being nourished by the
earth.
And we forget that we need toconnect with that in order to
(28:22):
receive that nourishment.
And everybody knows a good walkcan make you feel so much
better.
Um, getting out in a park nearthe trees, listening to the
water, watching a sunset,watching a sunrise, those all
are ways to replenish andnourish ourselves when we're
(28:43):
feeling really in a tough place.
Ryann (28:47):
Yeah.
So mourning is the outwardexpression of the grief.
So is the grief on the inside,like it's the feeling inside of
our bodies, and then themourning is the external way
that we deal with said.
Anglea (29:00):
Yeah, like people will define grief as an emotion, like
they feel like it's something.
And I believe it's it's aprocess and it's a series of
emotions that come up when theyare meant to.
It's all divine timing.
And each of those times that wefeel those emotions coming up,
(29:20):
if we can check in and take thetime to acknowledge them, often
there's little messages andthings that you're learning from
that.
And so it's difficult maybe toexplain until you've gone
through it once or twice, butI've had emotions well up in the
middle of a parking lot andwondered what is this about, you
(29:43):
know.
And maybe, you know, I sawsomething like a truck that
looked like my husband's truck.
I had that experience and itjust threw me into tears.
But it wasn't about the truck,it was about the fact that he
had purchased this brand new.
Truck, he didn't get time toreally enjoy it, you know.
(30:05):
He he passed too soon to reallyenjoy his retirement.
And so I was feeling this, youknow, longing for him, but also
possibly a lot of guilt forstill being still alive and him
not being able to enjoy hisretirement, right?
And so when you can get diggingdeeper into what is at the
(30:27):
bottom of that, and you canacknowledge yourself and kind of
put your arm around yourselfand say, you know what, this is
really tough, right?
This is this is not easy, thenit just seems like that helps to
lift it.
As soon as you can umacknowledge it or have someone
else acknowledge it for you,that really helps too.
(30:49):
So it's a process, it's aprocess of moving through and
and helping yourself releasesome of these things that it's
sometimes explained as like anattachment, right?
We've got we've we're attachedto that person.
And then um, as Mary FrancesO'Connor explains, you know,
your brain has to adjust to thefact that that person isn't
(31:14):
there.
And you have to go through themotions over and over of redoing
things that you've done on adaily basis without them so that
your mind can get used to thefact that they're gone.
And it takes time.
It's not, you know, it's not aquick thing.
Ryann (31:33):
Yeah.
So I'm hearing you say that Ilove how you're framing grief as
a process.
And I'm hearing you say thatit's all these different
emotions that are kind of inthis larger process.
And one of the things my momkept saying to me after her,
this was her mom who passed lastweek.
My mom kept saying, it's soweird.
It's so weird.
(31:54):
It's so weird.
And I was perceiving this, andyou know, maybe she'll listen to
this and correct me, but um, Iwas perceiving it in that she
was like confused because likeshe had been kind of uh part of
a caretaker role for like anumber of years.
So she would bring dinner andshe would bring breakfast and
she would, and so like her day,you know, got completely
(32:17):
disoriented because she was soused to going over there,
checking in, like going over,checking in.
You know, they lived fiveminutes, seven minutes away.
And so she kept saying, It's soweird.
I can't explain it.
And it seemed like she wasalmost like confused, like how
maybe when I can relate it tolike our old dog dying and
(32:37):
pulling up to the driveway andlike thinking that you're gonna
see their face in the window.
You know, like you said, yourbrain needs to kind of like you
know, build new patterns inrecognizing like that now your
life is a little differentbecause of the way you're
orienting around that person orthat pet.
Is that a fair way to say it?
(32:57):
Absolutely, yeah.
Anglea (32:58):
And the mind kind of freaks out about it.
It gets a little um well, andwe start thinking we're going
crazy because we feel like, youknow, they should be just
walking in the door, or thereshould be, you know, I can just
pick up the phone and phonethem, but no, they're not there,
you know.
And you start to think, like Iwas counting myself as two, you
(33:22):
know, when we went to arestaurant, because I couldn't
get over the fact that he wasn'talways there with me.
And I'd go to sit down with thekids and I'd be counting six,
and there's only five, you know,it's like something's not right
here.
Um, and and I couldn't stopdoing that.
It took such a long time forthat pattern to reprogram.
(33:45):
And I think it's, you know,when we learn our times tables
or anything, it takes time forthe brain to build those
pathways.
And so to create new pathwaysis gonna take time.
And I think understanding thatcan be comforting too, just
knowing that, you know, you'renot crazy, you're not, there's
(34:05):
nothing wrong.
It's just your mind needs timeto reprogram.
Ryann (34:12):
Yeah, you heard it here first, folks.
You're not crazy.
It's always a it's always agood affirmation to hear.
Like, you're not crazy.
Okay, good.
Phew.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I love that.
And also it made me think ofthere's a quote that says
something like, the opposite ofdepression isn't happiness, it's
(34:34):
expression.
And so I love the way youdescribe mourning as this
outward expression of what'sgoing on inside painting,
walking, crying, uh, talking,right?
Um, making something, you know,like being, you know, talking
(34:56):
about memories of the person,you know, things like that.
That's what I think of.
And I wish I like I think inthe Jewish religion, there's a
thing called sitting Shiva wherepeople, I forget if it's like
seven days or 10 days orsomething, but all like the
family and friends like sit forthis like amount of time.
And I was like, I would justlike convert to Judaism to like
(35:18):
sit Shiva.
Like I think it's the coolestthing for everybody to just like
drop everything you're doingand go sit in a house.
And like, you know what happensanyway when you get together
with your family, whethersomeone's died or not.
Just like all the the healingin action that would take place
(35:39):
in that like week or whatever itis, like what an expression of
healing that would be.
Anglea (35:44):
Yeah.
Well, and I think almost allcultures have some kind, well, I
wouldn't say almost all, but Iin our Western culture, we
really don't have that.
I mean, we have a tradition ofholding some kind of service,
and but they actually have, youknow, a time frame that you know
you're allowed to grieve andand ways to grieve and to
(36:09):
support each other, and it's allin place.
Yeah, we don't really have thatso much.
So, and I think we did, we justlost it, and and so we can
learn from those other culturesfor sure.
Ryann (36:25):
Yeah, and creating something that works in your own
family, in your own system,right?
Uh, we are so my grandfatherpassed a few years before my
grandmother, and they didn'thold a service for him.
My mom has five brothers andsisters, so six including her.
And I was like, how come likenobody's like honoring grandpa?
(36:48):
And they wanted to wait to doit with the two of them, which I
understand, like in a way.
But I was like, aren't we gonnalike talk about this?
Like, aren't we gonna likegather in his memory and like
you know, do this thing?
But we are now, we are now, asit turns out.
Um so yes, it'll be abeautiful, kind of a beautiful
(37:09):
little, you know, honoring ofthem.
And it's interesting, uh, 10days before my grandmother
passed was her 98th birthday,and multiple members of the
family got together for her 98thbirthday, and we threw her like
this pretty extravagant, sweetlittle party with a magician
came.
I mean, it was really, it wasreally quite like silly and fun
(37:33):
and um like something that sheloved.
But what I noticed is like shewas tired and she couldn't
really hear the jokes beingmade.
And we all went around thetable and we said like our
favorite memories of her, andshe couldn't, you know, she
couldn't really hear and shewasn't really a part of it.
(37:56):
And it felt like it was for us,like it was for the family, not
necessarily her.
Like she was there, her bodywas there with us, but I think
she knew, I think she knew thatshe was really close to saying
goodbye.
I think she knew she was reallyclose to death, and she just,
(38:17):
you know, kind of hung out andwe got some really cute pictures
of her, and she was spunky andsilly, like in her own little
way.
Um, but it was just we all likekind of cried and we set our
memories, and it was it was forus.
It was for the family.
And so it was like less abouther, more about us.
And I think that's a reallycool thing for everyone to kind
of get together and in honor ofsomebody, just um, you know,
(38:42):
talk about them and and keepthat that alive, like that spark
alive, so to speak.
Um, so what is the best way inyour mind, like to hold, I don't
know if a celebration of life,but like how would you do it
today?
Like how what would like maybewhat do you want for your
(39:04):
celebration of life?
I know that's kind of like acrazy question.
If you've thought about it,great.
If not, like how could we honorlike ourselves in transitioning
and then the ones we love too?
Anglea (39:14):
Yeah, well, I mean, I like the celebration of life,
and we did one for Blaine, andit was more about, you know, it
was laughing and crying, right?
It was the stories that wewanted to share, and and I think
it it's a beautiful thing, andwe have to continue.
(39:35):
So we can't just stop there.
And so what I found is with thekids, we'll often say, Oh my
gosh, what would dad think aboutthis?
Oh, it's like, or do youremember that time when dad did
such and such?
And when those times come up,um, the first few times, it's
(39:57):
almost, you know,heart-wrenching.
You know, it's it feels rough,and sometimes there's a lot of
tears.
Now, um, it's more of a, youknow, he's here, he's probably
listening.
And we're talking about thethings that he did, like the
(40:18):
crazy things that he said, thecrazy things that he did, and
some of the wisdom and advicethat we had gotten from him.
And so it keeps him alive thatway.
He's still around, he's stillhere, and I think that's
important.
You know, you can't just shoveit under the rug and never speak
(40:39):
of it again.
I don't think that's healthy.
And so, yeah, yeah.
Ryann (40:46):
I think the theme here too is like almost being
witnessed, like having it happenin a group.
There's something aboutspeaking it out loud and sharing
it with more than you, likemore than one person.
There's something so powerfulabout that like collective
(41:07):
consciousness of keeping amemory alive.
It's almost like love inaction.
I'm curious of something,what's something culture is
getting wrong about grief?
Is there anything else thatmaybe we didn't touch on that
culture is getting wrong aboutit?
Anglea (41:23):
Yeah, well, I think when I look at widows now, I find
that a lot of them are feelingreally lonely.
Um and part of it is that yourrelationships change when you
move, you know, when you losesomeone.
And you're now single ratherthan coupled, and your friends
(41:49):
end up sometimes walking away.
Everything really changes.
And so the message I like togive people is A, there's hope
you can get through this, andyou don't have to feel lonely
forever.
There is a way to move throughthat, and also that for people
(42:11):
that are trying to supportsomeone like that, you have to
acknowledge them where they arein their grief.
You really can't fix it, andpeople will try to say
platitudes, you know, thingsthat they're in a better place,
they wouldn't want you to besad, da-da-da-da-da, all of that
stuff.
I mean, it really intentionallypeople are trying to help,
(42:37):
right?
But what it does is it's itdismisses it for the person
who's grieving.
It's like saying, well, youknow what, I shouldn't be so sad
because he's in a better place.
I shouldn't be so sad becauseblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And suddenly the person who'sgrieving doesn't talk about it
anymore.
And that is not healthy.
(43:00):
So the best thing really is tojust be there.
To just be there.
Make sure that they know thatyou're around, that if they need
to talk, that you're here, thatyou show up once in a while,
take them for lunch, or justsend a text once in a while and
let them know you're thinking ofthem.
(43:21):
Those things are opening thedoor for them to express what
they're feeling.
And that's really what theyneed is to be able to tell you
that you know they're having atough day, and you to
acknowledge that, yeah, likeyou're gonna have tough days,
I'm sure, because this is noteasy, right?
And not say, Well, you need tolet go of that, you need to move
(43:45):
on, right?
Ryann (43:48):
That's we say the dumbest shit.
We say the dumbest stuff, andit's so well-meaning, but like,
it's like, come on, we'rebecause and it's awkward, you
know.
We've all been in thatsituation where we're like, oh
my god, what do I say?
And some of us then just don'tsay anything, and it's like,
(44:09):
okay, well, that's not goodeither.
And it's it is such an awkwardthing of like, what do you what
do you say to somebody?
And I think this brings it fullcircle back to that emotional
sovereignty, that being socomfortable in your own
emotional space, in your ownsovereignty, that you can hold
(44:30):
space for somebody else's painwithout needing to wish them
away from that pain and withoutthinking that you're gonna get
sucked into their pit.
Like, you know, knowing thatit's not contagious, like, oh, I
don't want to get into that,you know, like let's not go
there.
I don't want to have a big cryfest.
So I'm so glad you brought thatup.
That is such a a gift.
(44:51):
And thank you for your work.
How do we find you, follow you,learn how to work with you, et
cetera?
And get your book.
Yeah.
And listen to your podcast,might I add.
Anglea (45:00):
Yeah, so healingenergy.world, that is my
website.
Everything is there.
The links to the book, thelinks to the podcast, um, my
newsletters, and also, you know,I do angel readings, I do
energy healing.
Um, you can find it all there.
(45:21):
And I have a support group aswell that's welcome, everyone's
welcome to join.
Um, it's on Zoom.
We hold it about every 10 daysor so, and it's been going on
for about three years now.
I've got a lot of core peoplethat have been with me from the
beginning that have had so muchexperience and share a lot of
(45:43):
wisdom.
So if you want um a little bitof support and you want to check
that out, we basically talk alot about the afterlife.
We talk a lot about mediumship,we talk a lot about you know,
acknowledging people in theirgrief.
And there's everybody in there: people who have lost children, (45:59):
undefined
people who have lost spouses, umparents, grandparents, all
kinds of different losses,divorces.
So it's a place where you canconnect with someone who maybe
has a similar experience to you,and even connect outside the
(46:22):
group.
That's happened before.
And then you don't feel soalone, right?
You've got someone else toshare with.
Ryann (46:32):
What a gift.
Okay, so now that we'rewrapping up, I'm gonna ask you
the three questions I askeverybody at the end of the
interview.
And the first one is what'sbringing you joy today, Angela?
Anglea (46:43):
Oh, you know what?
I discovered that joy really isfriends and family, the
connections with friends andfamily.
And the more connections that Imake with even people who are
strangers, the more joy I get.
You know, meeting you has beena pleasant, wonderful,
(47:05):
delightful experience.
And it brings me a lot of joyto be able to connect with
people.
Ryann (47:14):
Same.
I love that.
What, if anything, are youreading right now?
Anglea (47:19):
I do a lot of self-help.
And right now there's a bookcalled You Are a Badass.
I can't remember the author'sname.
Ryann (47:28):
Jensen Zero.
Yeah, yes.
Anglea (47:31):
Oh my gosh.
I'm loving that book.
Ryann (47:35):
I love the way she writes.
It's like chatting with afriend.
She's a great writer, and Ilove her um approach.
I I that's one of the firstpersonal development books I
read.
I love that one.
Such a good one.
I think that's on the book listtoo.
Um, I've got a book list goingfrom all the recommendations
from the authors and expertswho've been on the show.
(47:56):
So I think that's on there.
If not, I'll have to put it on.
And then the last question Ihave for you, Angela, is who or
what has taught you the most?
Anglea (48:05):
I would say grief has taught me the most that I've
ever learned in my lifetime.
Um, there's been a lot of pain,but there's been a lot of
awakening through that pain andtransformation in my own life
and a joy and a happiness that Iwouldn't have experienced
(48:25):
otherwise.
It seems weird to say thatbecause I lost my husband and
that was devastating, but I feelemotions in a totally different
way now.
And the joys are extremelyjoyful.
And so it's just, you know,it's a different life.
(48:47):
Um, I'm not saying that theprevious life wasn't wonderful,
but the new life has beenamazing as well.
And I'm really looking forwardto the future.
Ryann (49:00):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing your wisdom
with us, Angela.
Thank you for having me.
It's been a delight.
We are told that we shouldn't cry, that we should be
strong, that we shouldn't bejealous, that we shouldn't be
angry, that we shouldn't be allof these things, right?
And so we're trying to be thethat person that we've told we
were told we should be.
And it just doesn't workbecause as I said, grief is a
(00:21):
process, and part of thisprocess is that emotions will
come up and you have to addressthem.
Ryann (00:34):
Welcome back to the show.
Today I'm sitting down withAngela Clement.
She's a former schoolprincipal, she's a speaker, a
writer, an energy healer, andhost of the Awaken Your Souls
Journey podcast.
Angela lost her husbandunexpectedly in 2021, and now
she teaches on brief.
This conversation was so timelyfor me because my family and I
(00:57):
lost my beloved 98-year-oldgrandma last week, actually the
night before the first day ofschool here from our kids.
And so I talk about it in theinterview.
At one point, my husband lookedat me, looked me square in the
face and said, When are yougonna grieve?
And I tell the story about howI ended up grieving.
(01:18):
I really wanted it to be aconversation about how we deal
with grief in our culture.
And so if you're not currentlydealing with grief, I'm sure you
have dealt with grief.
I'm sure you have someone inyour life who's dealing with
grief.
And I want to really normalizelike showing up for somebody.
So we talk a lot aboutemotional intelligence and how
(01:40):
to feel our feelings and thedifference between grief and
mourning.
And then, of course, also howAngela turned her pain into
purpose.
And Angela's also defined griefin a way that I think is
really, really helpful for somany of us because it helps us
kind of zoom out and take a lookat what grief actually is and
(02:03):
the different steps that need tohappen in order for us to still
live happy and fulfillinglives, even if we've lost
someone we love.
So I hope you guys enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
It's practical, it's heartfelt,and I can't wait for you guys
to hear it.
So let's jump in.
(02:23):
Hi, Angela.
Welcome to the Raising WildHearts podcast.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Anglea (02:33):
It's fun to be here.
Ryann (02:34):
Yeah, I'm really excited that you're here.
And this conversation, ofcourse, is perfect timing for a
couple of different reasons.
And I just, the universe hasbeen so funny lately, and God
has been just like winking at mewith uh timing of different
conversations that I've had.
And this is one of those.
(02:56):
Um, and we'll get into a coupledifferent reasons for that.
But first, I really want toframe this conversation as a
cultural kind of dialogue abouthow we manage or deal with grief
in our culture, in NorthAmerica at least.
Um, and maybe some things thatwe get wrong about it and some
different ways to think about itand then to support ourselves
(03:20):
and others really in this griefprocess because we are human,
and as we know, we are all goingto lose somebody or have, you
know, something happen to usthat produces a feeling of loss
in our lives.
And so I'm really excited todive into this conversation.
With that being the frame,first I want to start with you,
(03:41):
Angela, and just what atestament your work is to
turning pain into purpose.
So would you just like speak onthat pain into purpose piece
for a little bit?
Anglea (03:56):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I had no idea whatgrief was going to do.
I really just thought that um Ididn't know what to think.
The rug had been pulled outfrom underneath of me, and I
felt like with my husband gone,uh, my entire life had changed.
(04:18):
And it seemed like because Iretired as well at the same
time, and we moved to a newcommunity, it it was just like
everything had changed.
So there was so much loss andso much grief all at once.
And it felt like, you know, weeven lost two pets in there.
(04:39):
We lost our dog and our cat inthat time frame.
And so it was just so much.
And I I felt myself wonderingwhat life would be like now,
because it had been amazing upuntil that point.
I felt like I had the bestlife.
(04:59):
And I wondered if that was theend, if that was the end of all
the fun, if that was the end ofthe happiness, that I would just
live the rest of my life inpain.
And so I went out seeking.
And you talk about culturalthings, you know, there was a
lot of messages out there thatwere telling me that yes, I
(05:20):
would grieve for a lifetime.
And that was devastating forme, you know, to hear that I was
going to be in this much painfor the rest of my life.
And there wasn't a lot ofpeople that could I could talk
to really.
And I felt like culturally, wedon't talk about grief, we tend
(05:44):
to kind of avoid it.
Like we don't want to talkabout death, we don't want to
talk about people leaving ourlives.
It feels scary, and and so I Ididn't know what to do.
So I was looking for hope.
I was looking for someone whosaid, you know what, you are
(06:05):
gonna get over this, you aregonna get through this, you are
going to be happy again, and soit took a while, but I did find
that hope.
And I am so grateful today thatthere are people out there that
will talk about grief, thatwill help you through this
(06:26):
process.
And grieving forever has atotally different um perspective
for me than it did back then.
It certainly isn't adevastating thing anymore.
Ryann (06:42):
Right.
How is it shifted for you?
Anglea (06:44):
Yeah, I think that it was the definition of grief that
really shifted it for me.
And when you look in thedictionary, the definition of
grief is very different, evenamong dictionaries.
I think because everybody'sgrief is so different.
It depends on the relationshipyou had with the person you lost
or the thing you lost.
(07:05):
Grief became a process thathelps us let go of something
that we've lost.
And it's, I believe it's aGod-given process because when
we come to this earth, we'regoing to experience loss right
from the beginning when we leavethe womb.
We've left a place that we werehappily hanging out.
(07:28):
And sometimes we have to leaveour favorite teacher to move on
to the next grade, or we have toleave home to go to university.
Those are all losses and theyall have us experiencing grief.
And so I believe the process ofgrief is continuous because we
are always letting go ofsomething.
Ryann (07:50):
One of the things you said is that we don't talk about
grief so much in our cultureand you didn't have anybody
really to talk to.
I wonder if part of losingsomeone specifically we love to
death forces us, invites usrather, to face our own
mortality.
(08:10):
And I wonder if we just can'thandle that in so many ways.
And so we bypass it, we brushit under the rug, we numb it
because we don't want to facethe fact that we are all
actually going to die andreckoning with how are we gonna
live?
Anglea (08:27):
I believe that grief really forces you to look at
that, and it is interestingbecause since I lost my husband,
the fear of death is not likeit was for me, because I feel
like it's not the end, it's atransition to something new, and
(08:49):
so it's not something to beafraid of, and it's not
something to be sad aboutnecessarily, although we lose
that physical connection, andthat's really hard and it's
really devastating.
But uh understanding thatthey're not gone, that they're
(09:11):
still around us is how I gotthrough this, and so and that's
how many um understand that.
And I think coming to termswith your own faith and your own
truth and your ownunderstanding, I think is the
best thing.
It doesn't mean that my truthis your truth, everybody has
(09:34):
their own faith andunderstanding about life, but it
does force you to look at itand to figure it out for you.
Ryann (09:44):
Yeah.
So since we're recording this,it's been about four years,
right, since your husband'spassing.
How do you find that youconnect with him these days?
Anglea (09:56):
Um I find that he like for me, I had an experience
before he passed away where Ifelt like I was sitting beside
him and I felt this energy kindof going up.
And and I felt like it wasconnecting with his energy.
(10:17):
And it was this strangeexperience that I can't really
hardly explain.
But after he passed, I realizedthat I could use that same
connection to connect to hisessence and feel his energy, and
so I'm always feeling it aroundme, and I often will get little
um either messages or signsthat he is there, and and so
(10:45):
it's very comforting to knowthat.
And I've also in the process ofmy grief um worked with energy
healing and energy healers alot, and sometimes messages
would come through them as well,and they would be just blow
your mind profound.
And so it really helped comfortme, understanding that he is
(11:09):
truly here with me, and I canfeel his presence now, actually.
Um, and it's not that wenecessarily have a two-way
conversation all the time, butit is like I can talk to him and
just know that he's there, andI know what he's I guess what
(11:34):
he's um that that love andsupport is there, and I can feel
it.
Ryann (11:40):
Yeah.
What do you think death canteach us about life?
Anglea (11:47):
Uh well, I think that one thing I really learned is
that you know, this life is onelife.
We know that, and we want tolive it to the fullest.
We don't want to waste it.
And so what I've found is I seethings that are important to
(12:10):
me, and I see the things thatare less important, and there is
a huge distinction now.
It used to be before I wouldjust accept whatever was coming
and kind of roll with whatever,and now I'm a little more
deliberate in, you know, if Ireally don't want to do
something, I pretty much don'tdo it.
(12:32):
Amen to that.
But it's like sure there arethings that you there are
choices that you can make inlife.
And if you want to go on thattrip or you want to, you know,
learn something new, then youjust do it.
(12:53):
You don't wait for retirement,you don't wait for, you know,
well, when my kids are gone, youknow, you just do it now.
Yeah.
Ryann (13:06):
So my grandmother transitioned a we about a week
ago.
It was Sunday night, and it wasSunday night around 11 p.m.
And my I never keep my phoneringer on.
And for some reason, my phoneringer was on that day.
And so my husband woke up to myphone ringer, and it was my mom
(13:29):
calling in the middle of thenight saying that my grandmother
had passed in her sleep.
She was 98 and she had just afull, rich, beautiful life.
She was surrounded by familyfor many of the last like years.
I mean, this woman had familyin and out, just you know,
loving her for the past numberof years, myself included.
(13:50):
And so um it was an interestingthing because the next day was
the first day of school for mykids.
And it was, we, you know, wekind of woke up in the night.
My husband told me whathappened because he's the one
who answered the phone.
I snuggled up with him, I lethim kind of hold me, and we
drifted off to sleep.
And then it's like up and athim, you know, and we're getting
(14:13):
the kids ready for school andwe're making the breakfast and
the lunches and taking the firstday back pictures and then
meeting the parents in theparking lot.
And then, of course, we haddifferent work obligations and
work projects, and so that wenton for about two days.
And Tuesday, midday, my husbandsaid he looked at me straight
in the face and he said, Whenare you gonna grieve?
(14:34):
And I said, I don't know, Ijust don't have time right now.
And and what a weird and crazything to even say.
And and I just like love thathe asked me that question
because I he knew that I hadn'tlost it yet.
I hadn't fallen apart, I hadn'treally like talked about it or
gotten into my eternalexperience at all.
(14:56):
And that night after the kidswent to bed, I just lost it.
And the tears came and Ifinally like just like fell
apart in his arms.
And I was like, Well, I guessI'm gonna grieve now, you know,
like here's the time.
And it's just such a funnything that I think in our
(15:19):
culture we are told like, pushon, move on, there are things to
be done.
Who's got time for that?
And it was only when I was ableto get really still and really
silent and back into my body andand just nothing else to do,
um, that I was able to like, ohmy gosh, this was here.
And it was under the surfaceall along.
(15:41):
And so all of this to say,like, is this what many people
are doing with grief?
Are we saying, like, not now?
I don't have time for that,maybe later.
Oh, yeah.
And what do we, what do we do?
Anglea (15:54):
Yeah, we are.
And part of it is because wedon't want to feel that feeling.
It's it's really tough.
They're the emotions are reallystrong.
And also, we are told that weshouldn't cry, that we should be
strong, that we shouldn't bejealous, that we shouldn't be
(16:14):
angry, that we shouldn't be allof these things, right?
And so we're trying to be thethat person that we've told we
were told we should be.
And it just doesn't workbecause as I said, grief is a
process, and part of thisprocess is that emotions will
come up and you have to addressthem.
(16:35):
And I was guilty too of youknow being really busy, and I
that's still my go-to, you know.
If I'm starting to feel, I justget busier and busier and
busier.
Yep.
And now I know it, right?
And it's interesting watchingmyself do that and then have to
stop myself and say, okay, no,you need to sit down, have some
(16:59):
quiet time, and let thisprocess.
Ryann (17:04):
Yeah.
Oh, it's so multifaceted, and Ilove that emotions came up
because as children, you know, II thought there were three
emotions.
I thought it was like happy,sad, mad, you know, that it's
it's very nuanced, right?
And um, like you said, and Inever thought about it like
this, but our first kind of setof grief is like separating from
(17:28):
our mom.
Like, you know, going comingout into the world and looking
at the bright lights, or youknow, if you were blessed to be
like born at home or something,or at a birthing center, maybe
it's like a little more mellow,but being like, oh my God, what
is this place?
Right.
And having it start so young.
And then as toddlers were told,like, here, have a cookie, or
(17:49):
no, don't be sad, or you'refine, you're okay.
And so it's this very, verydeep process of indoctrination
where we've been told not tofeel.
And it's like, well, why wouldwe feel now?
Why would we start now?
Right.
So I'm curious if for you thiswas your first time in your life
that you had to feel and if yourealized, like, oh, well, here
(18:14):
it is, because you said life wasgood.
You were chugging along, likeeverything was great.
And then the bottom fell out.
So how did you learn how tofeel?
And was that like your firsthurrah with learning to feel
your feelings?
Anglea (18:27):
Yeah, it was actually.
And I probably wouldn't havefigured that out so quickly,
except I had a grief coach.
And that was kind of the firstthing she taught me was that you
have to address these emotions.
Like you can't, she equated itto holding a beach ball under
(18:48):
water, and you can keep thatunder there for a while, but
then eventually it's gonna flyup in your face, right?
And I remember back, you know,when I had emotional moments,
they were tsunamis, like therewasn't this nice little cry.
It was like once the floodgatesopened, it it didn't stop, you
(19:12):
know, and it was just yeah, andI think about that now, and I
think the reason was I washolding everything, I was
holding it all the time.
And when it blew up, it therewas no stopping.
And so now I find, you know, ifI take the time and I have my
(19:33):
little cry, or I write, or I gofor a walk, or I do the things
that help release that energy,then you know, it doesn't have
to be.
It can be, but it doesn't haveto be the tsunami.
Ryann (19:49):
Yeah.
I had a period of my life whereI said, I would say so often,
like, if I start crying, I willnever stop.
I'm so afraid I will neverstop.
Like, I won't be able to climbout of this just like dark hole.
And for me, I lost my dad whenI was like basically a toddler.
(20:12):
He divorced, him and my momdivorced, and then we moved to a
different state, thousands ofmiles away.
And so I never had arelationship with him.
And throughout my childhood,it, you know, it wasn't talked
about, right?
It was the 80s, and I think weknew some back then, but my, you
know, my parents weren'tinterested in finding me a
therapist and having me journalmy feelings out.
(20:34):
Like it was just like, okay,moving on.
Like we come on.
Like my mom like got remarried.
She's like, let's buy a littlehouse, let's have a nice little
life, like everything's good.
But me, you know, as this kid,it was I remembered and I, you
know, and I it something alwaysjust like felt off.
But years later, decades later,I was like, oh no, here's the
(20:58):
beach ball coming up from thewater.
And I had it happened tocoincide with the time I had
kids, like, you know, very, verydivinely orchestrated, and it
was all for a reason, right?
But so I had to wait decades,and finally the beach ball came
up, and I was just like, oh myGod, I'm never gonna feel normal
(21:19):
again.
And um, the truth was what feltnormal was just like numbing,
ignoring, you know, kind ofsidestepping those those hard
feelings.
And you said you hinted to likeall feelings are is energy.
And so what makes us so scaredto to feel what we're feeling
(21:44):
inside our body?
Like, where do you think thatalmost like primal fear comes
from?
Anglea (21:51):
Yeah, well, I think it does come from when we're little
and we're told not to, becauseif you notice, you know, babies
will just cry.
They're not they're notstopping it.
Doesn't matter what you say orwhat you don't know.
Ryann (22:06):
They're like, Oh, I shouldn't cry right now.
Let me dry my eyes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they cry and they they'llbut they'll go forward.
Anglea (22:11):
And they just, you know, they move through whatever it
was, um, and they they move andthey are able to let go of
whatever.
And we like to hang on andresist, and it's painful, it's
really, really painful.
(22:32):
And so when you talk aboutbeing in that dark hole, we
sometimes refer to it as thedark night of the soul, you
know, like that that place whereyou don't think you're ever
coming out, you're stuck in thathole.
I was there, it was Mother'sDay, and I I wasn't prepared, I
(22:52):
didn't think that Mother's Daywould be an issue.
I I don't know why, but I justthought, you know, I'd been
through Christmas, I'd beenthrough Easter, and that was
tough, but I thought Mother'sDay will be okay.
It's about my kids, right?
But no, I was missing myhusband, you know, bringing me
(23:13):
the flowers or taking me out todinner or whatever.
And I just went into thisspiral, and I remember sitting
and thinking, I'm never comingout of this.
Like I'm in this now, andasking all the questions like,
why am I still here?
Why is my husband gone?
Why did all of this happen?
(23:35):
You know, what is life aboutanyway?
I don't even know if I believeanything.
You know, you just get intothis place.
Yeah.
And it's it's not pleasant.
It really isn't.
And so I always recommend whenyou get into that place to find
some support because walkingthrough that by yourself is
(23:57):
tough.
It is.
Ryann (24:01):
Yeah, that's the time to call the practitioner, the
therapist, the the reallytrusted friend, you know,
somebody, somebody, right?
Um, and that's actually what Idid.
I worked with a number ofdifferent practitioners and
therapists and and healers, etcetera.
Um, and it turns out I gotstuck a little bit in like a
(24:21):
healing loop, which I've beentalking about kind of a bit on
the podcast, of like, of likenever being done, never being
good enough.
And that was for certain like alimiting belief of like, well,
I have to keep working athealing.
Like I'm not healed yet.
Like I'm not done.
Uh, and I think um it's animportant distinction to
remember of like getting intothat loop then, because it's the
(24:45):
same loop, it's the same darkhole, it just looks a little bit
different, but you're stillkind of stuck in this wheel of
suffering a bit.
What's your take on that?
Anglea (24:53):
Yes, oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And and the funny thing is, isthat, you know, when I stepped
into spirituality, it was like,okay, well, now I've got it
figured out, right?
I understand what my truth is.
I'm I'm this spiritual being,and you know, everything's good.
And then the human part of youis screaming at you.
(25:17):
Yep.
You need to acknowledge thatyou are a human on this earth,
and I don't like what'shappening here.
And I it took me a long time torecognize that she needs that
attention too, not just thespiritual aspect.
And so, yeah, it's bringing youdown to earth and it's it's
(25:38):
helping to ground you.
And um it it takes support andsomebody that knows the path to
kind of help walk you throughthat.
Ryann (25:51):
Yeah.
I picture all of us as like,you know, little, little
whatever, I don't know, littlehumans, whatever, something on
this like kind of windy path,right?
And we each are sort of holdinglike a torch up, and there's
like people behind us, like,okay, like they can kind of see
the light in this like kind ofwoodsy foresty type place.
(26:14):
And we're all kind of likefollowing these torches of
light, right?
And and saying to the peoplebehind us, like, come on, just
trust you're like you're on theright path, like follow that
light, right?
And I, you know, there havebeen many teachers that I've
followed that light for.
Um, and so yeah, I agree.
It's so important to havesomebody who can reflect the the
(26:36):
beauty and the light and thehope and the love that's like
always available, even in thatdark place, you know, even when
it feels like it's just notpossible.
Um, I love that metaphor.
So can we talk about what thedifference between grief and
mourning is?
Anglea (26:54):
Oh, absolutely.
So mourning really is theprocess of expressing the grief,
and it is probably the mostimportant part if you want to
move through grief and you wantto help yourself heal and let
go.
That is what we need to do.
(27:16):
We need to mourn.
And mourning doesn't have to becrying necessarily, although I
find that a really good outlet.
Um, there's writing, there'sdrawing, there's painting,
there's cooking, there's allkinds of ways.
And I think everybody has theirown thing that they love to do.
(27:37):
Walks in nature generally helpeverybody.
And I can't stress enough, youknow, getting outside, getting
your feet on the ground, gettingwith the trees or the water or
whatever you've got, even aplant, you know, anything to
(27:58):
connect with nature so that youyou can feel that support and
nurturing from the earth.
I think we've all forgottenthat.
We we just didn't realize thatthat's that's part of the
process of living here is thatwe're being nourished by the
earth.
And we forget that we need toconnect with that in order to
(28:22):
receive that nourishment.
And everybody knows a good walkcan make you feel so much
better.
Um, getting out in a park nearthe trees, listening to the
water, watching a sunset,watching a sunrise, those all
are ways to replenish andnourish ourselves when we're
(28:43):
feeling really in a tough place.
Ryann (28:47):
Yeah.
So mourning is the outwardexpression of the grief.
So is the grief on the inside,like it's the feeling inside of
our bodies, and then themourning is the external way
that we deal with said.
Anglea (29:00):
Yeah, like people will define grief as an emotion, like
they feel like it's something.
And I believe it's it's aprocess and it's a series of
emotions that come up when theyare meant to.
It's all divine timing.
And each of those times that wefeel those emotions coming up,
(29:20):
if we can check in and take thetime to acknowledge them, often
there's little messages andthings that you're learning from
that.
And so it's difficult maybe toexplain until you've gone
through it once or twice, butI've had emotions well up in the
middle of a parking lot andwondered what is this about, you
(29:43):
know.
And maybe, you know, I sawsomething like a truck that
looked like my husband's truck.
I had that experience and itjust threw me into tears.
But it wasn't about the truck,it was about the fact that he
had purchased this brand new.
Truck, he didn't get time toreally enjoy it, you know.
(30:05):
He he passed too soon to reallyenjoy his retirement.
And so I was feeling this, youknow, longing for him, but also
possibly a lot of guilt forstill being still alive and him
not being able to enjoy hisretirement, right?
And so when you can get diggingdeeper into what is at the
(30:27):
bottom of that, and you canacknowledge yourself and kind of
put your arm around yourselfand say, you know what, this is
really tough, right?
This is this is not easy, thenit just seems like that helps to
lift it.
As soon as you can umacknowledge it or have someone
else acknowledge it for you,that really helps too.
(30:49):
So it's a process, it's aprocess of moving through and
and helping yourself releasesome of these things that it's
sometimes explained as like anattachment, right?
We've got we've we're attachedto that person.
And then um, as Mary FrancesO'Connor explains, you know,
your brain has to adjust to thefact that that person isn't
(31:14):
there.
And you have to go through themotions over and over of redoing
things that you've done on adaily basis without them so that
your mind can get used to thefact that they're gone.
And it takes time.
It's not, you know, it's not aquick thing.
Ryann (31:33):
Yeah.
So I'm hearing you say that Ilove how you're framing grief as
a process.
And I'm hearing you say thatit's all these different
emotions that are kind of inthis larger process.
And one of the things my momkept saying to me after her,
this was her mom who passed lastweek.
My mom kept saying, it's soweird.
It's so weird.
(31:54):
It's so weird.
And I was perceiving this, andyou know, maybe she'll listen to
this and correct me, but um, Iwas perceiving it in that she
was like confused because likeshe had been kind of uh part of
a caretaker role for like anumber of years.
So she would bring dinner andshe would bring breakfast and
she would, and so like her day,you know, got completely
(32:17):
disoriented because she was soused to going over there,
checking in, like going over,checking in.
You know, they lived fiveminutes, seven minutes away.
And so she kept saying, It's soweird.
I can't explain it.
And it seemed like she wasalmost like confused, like how
maybe when I can relate it tolike our old dog dying and
(32:37):
pulling up to the driveway andlike thinking that you're gonna
see their face in the window.
You know, like you said, yourbrain needs to kind of like you
know, build new patterns inrecognizing like that now your
life is a little differentbecause of the way you're
orienting around that person orthat pet.
Is that a fair way to say it?
(32:57):
Absolutely, yeah.
Anglea (32:58):
And the mind kind of freaks out about it.
It gets a little um well, andwe start thinking we're going
crazy because we feel like, youknow, they should be just
walking in the door, or thereshould be, you know, I can just
pick up the phone and phonethem, but no, they're not there,
you know.
And you start to think, like Iwas counting myself as two, you
(33:22):
know, when we went to arestaurant, because I couldn't
get over the fact that he wasn'talways there with me.
And I'd go to sit down with thekids and I'd be counting six,
and there's only five, you know,it's like something's not right
here.
Um, and and I couldn't stopdoing that.
It took such a long time forthat pattern to reprogram.
(33:45):
And I think it's, you know,when we learn our times tables
or anything, it takes time forthe brain to build those
pathways.
And so to create new pathwaysis gonna take time.
And I think understanding thatcan be comforting too, just
knowing that, you know, you'renot crazy, you're not, there's
(34:05):
nothing wrong.
It's just your mind needs timeto reprogram.
Ryann (34:12):
Yeah, you heard it here first, folks.
You're not crazy.
It's always a it's always agood affirmation to hear.
Like, you're not crazy.
Okay, good.
Phew.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I love that.
And also it made me think ofthere's a quote that says
something like, the opposite ofdepression isn't happiness, it's
(34:34):
expression.
And so I love the way youdescribe mourning as this
outward expression of what'sgoing on inside painting,
walking, crying, uh, talking,right?
Um, making something, you know,like being, you know, talking
(34:56):
about memories of the person,you know, things like that.
That's what I think of.
And I wish I like I think inthe Jewish religion, there's a
thing called sitting Shiva wherepeople, I forget if it's like
seven days or 10 days orsomething, but all like the
family and friends like sit forthis like amount of time.
And I was like, I would justlike convert to Judaism to like
(35:18):
sit Shiva.
Like I think it's the coolestthing for everybody to just like
drop everything you're doingand go sit in a house.
And like, you know what happensanyway when you get together
with your family, whethersomeone's died or not.
Just like all the the healingin action that would take place
(35:39):
in that like week or whatever itis, like what an expression of
healing that would be.
Anglea (35:44):
Yeah.
Well, and I think almost allcultures have some kind, well, I
wouldn't say almost all, but Iin our Western culture, we
really don't have that.
I mean, we have a tradition ofholding some kind of service,
and but they actually have, youknow, a time frame that you know
you're allowed to grieve andand ways to grieve and to
(36:09):
support each other, and it's allin place.
Yeah, we don't really have thatso much.
So, and I think we did, we justlost it, and and so we can
learn from those other culturesfor sure.
Ryann (36:25):
Yeah, and creating something that works in your own
family, in your own system,right?
Uh, we are so my grandfatherpassed a few years before my
grandmother, and they didn'thold a service for him.
My mom has five brothers andsisters, so six including her.
And I was like, how come likenobody's like honoring grandpa?
(36:48):
And they wanted to wait to doit with the two of them, which I
understand, like in a way.
But I was like, aren't we gonnalike talk about this?
Like, aren't we gonna likegather in his memory and like
you know, do this thing?
But we are now, we are now, asit turns out.
Um so yes, it'll be abeautiful, kind of a beautiful
(37:09):
little, you know, honoring ofthem.
And it's interesting, uh, 10days before my grandmother
passed was her 98th birthday,and multiple members of the
family got together for her 98thbirthday, and we threw her like
this pretty extravagant, sweetlittle party with a magician
came.
I mean, it was really, it wasreally quite like silly and fun
(37:33):
and um like something that sheloved.
But what I noticed is like shewas tired and she couldn't
really hear the jokes beingmade.
And we all went around thetable and we said like our
favorite memories of her, andshe couldn't, you know, she
couldn't really hear and shewasn't really a part of it.
(37:56):
And it felt like it was for us,like it was for the family, not
necessarily her.
Like she was there, her bodywas there with us, but I think
she knew, I think she knew thatshe was really close to saying
goodbye.
I think she knew she was reallyclose to death, and she just,
(38:17):
you know, kind of hung out andwe got some really cute pictures
of her, and she was spunky andsilly, like in her own little
way.
Um, but it was just we all likekind of cried and we set our
memories, and it was it was forus.
It was for the family.
And so it was like less abouther, more about us.
And I think that's a reallycool thing for everyone to kind
of get together and in honor ofsomebody, just um, you know,
(38:42):
talk about them and and keepthat that alive, like that spark
alive, so to speak.
Um, so what is the best way inyour mind, like to hold, I don't
know if a celebration of life,but like how would you do it
today?
Like how what would like maybewhat do you want for your
(39:04):
celebration of life?
I know that's kind of like acrazy question.
If you've thought about it,great.
If not, like how could we honorlike ourselves in transitioning
and then the ones we love too?
Anglea (39:14):
Yeah, well, I mean, I like the celebration of life,
and we did one for Blaine, andit was more about, you know, it
was laughing and crying, right?
It was the stories that wewanted to share, and and I think
it it's a beautiful thing, andwe have to continue.
(39:35):
So we can't just stop there.
And so what I found is with thekids, we'll often say, Oh my
gosh, what would dad think aboutthis?
Oh, it's like, or do youremember that time when dad did
such and such?
And when those times come up,um, the first few times, it's
(39:57):
almost, you know,heart-wrenching.
You know, it's it feels rough,and sometimes there's a lot of
tears.
Now, um, it's more of a, youknow, he's here, he's probably
listening.
And we're talking about thethings that he did, like the
(40:18):
crazy things that he said, thecrazy things that he did, and
some of the wisdom and advicethat we had gotten from him.
And so it keeps him alive thatway.
He's still around, he's stillhere, and I think that's
important.
You know, you can't just shoveit under the rug and never speak
(40:39):
of it again.
I don't think that's healthy.
And so, yeah, yeah.
Ryann (40:46):
I think the theme here too is like almost being
witnessed, like having it happenin a group.
There's something aboutspeaking it out loud and sharing
it with more than you, likemore than one person.
There's something so powerfulabout that like collective
(41:07):
consciousness of keeping amemory alive.
It's almost like love inaction.
I'm curious of something,what's something culture is
getting wrong about grief?
Is there anything else thatmaybe we didn't touch on that
culture is getting wrong aboutit?
Anglea (41:23):
Yeah, well, I think when I look at widows now, I find
that a lot of them are feelingreally lonely.
Um and part of it is that yourrelationships change when you
move, you know, when you losesomeone.
And you're now single ratherthan coupled, and your friends
(41:49):
end up sometimes walking away.
Everything really changes.
And so the message I like togive people is A, there's hope
you can get through this, andyou don't have to feel lonely
forever.
There is a way to move throughthat, and also that for people
(42:11):
that are trying to supportsomeone like that, you have to
acknowledge them where they arein their grief.
You really can't fix it, andpeople will try to say
platitudes, you know, thingsthat they're in a better place,
they wouldn't want you to besad, da-da-da-da-da, all of that
stuff.
I mean, it really intentionallypeople are trying to help,
(42:37):
right?
But what it does is it's itdismisses it for the person
who's grieving.
It's like saying, well, youknow what, I shouldn't be so sad
because he's in a better place.
I shouldn't be so sad becauseblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And suddenly the person who'sgrieving doesn't talk about it
anymore.
And that is not healthy.
(43:00):
So the best thing really is tojust be there.
To just be there.
Make sure that they know thatyou're around, that if they need
to talk, that you're here, thatyou show up once in a while,
take them for lunch, or justsend a text once in a while and
let them know you're thinking ofthem.
(43:21):
Those things are opening thedoor for them to express what
they're feeling.
And that's really what theyneed is to be able to tell you
that you know they're having atough day, and you to
acknowledge that, yeah, likeyou're gonna have tough days,
I'm sure, because this is noteasy, right?
And not say, Well, you need tolet go of that, you need to move
(43:45):
on, right?
Ryann (43:48):
That's we say the dumbest shit.
We say the dumbest stuff, andit's so well-meaning, but like,
it's like, come on, we'rebecause and it's awkward, you
know.
We've all been in thatsituation where we're like, oh
my god, what do I say?
And some of us then just don'tsay anything, and it's like,
(44:09):
okay, well, that's not goodeither.
And it's it is such an awkwardthing of like, what do you what
do you say to somebody?
And I think this brings it fullcircle back to that emotional
sovereignty, that being socomfortable in your own
emotional space, in your ownsovereignty, that you can hold
(44:30):
space for somebody else's painwithout needing to wish them
away from that pain and withoutthinking that you're gonna get
sucked into their pit.
Like, you know, knowing thatit's not contagious, like, oh, I
don't want to get into that,you know, like let's not go
there.
I don't want to have a big cryfest.
So I'm so glad you brought thatup.
That is such a a gift.
(44:51):
And thank you for your work.
How do we find you, follow you,learn how to work with you, et
cetera?
And get your book.
Yeah.
And listen to your podcast,might I add.
Anglea (45:00):
Yeah, so healingenergy.world, that is my
website.
Everything is there.
The links to the book, thelinks to the podcast, um, my
newsletters, and also, you know,I do angel readings, I do
energy healing.
Um, you can find it all there.
(45:21):
And I have a support group aswell that's welcome, everyone's
welcome to join.
Um, it's on Zoom.
We hold it about every 10 daysor so, and it's been going on
for about three years now.
I've got a lot of core peoplethat have been with me from the
beginning that have had so muchexperience and share a lot of
(45:43):
wisdom.
So if you want um a little bitof support and you want to check
that out, we basically talk alot about the afterlife.
We talk a lot about mediumship,we talk a lot about you know,
acknowledging people in theirgrief.
And there's everybody in there: people who have lost children, (45:59):
undefined
people who have lost spouses, umparents, grandparents, all
kinds of different losses,divorces.
So it's a place where you canconnect with someone who maybe
has a similar experience to you,and even connect outside the
(46:22):
group.
That's happened before.
And then you don't feel soalone, right?
You've got someone else toshare with.
Ryann (46:32):
What a gift.
Okay, so now that we'rewrapping up, I'm gonna ask you
the three questions I askeverybody at the end of the
interview.
And the first one is what'sbringing you joy today, Angela?
Anglea (46:43):
Oh, you know what?
I discovered that joy really isfriends and family, the
connections with friends andfamily.
And the more connections that Imake with even people who are
strangers, the more joy I get.
You know, meeting you has beena pleasant, wonderful,
(47:05):
delightful experience.
And it brings me a lot of joyto be able to connect with
people.
Ryann (47:14):
Same.
I love that.
What, if anything, are youreading right now?
Anglea (47:19):
I do a lot of self-help.
And right now there's a bookcalled You Are a Badass.
I can't remember the author'sname.
Ryann (47:28):
Jensen Zero.
Yeah, yes.
Anglea (47:31):
Oh my gosh.
I'm loving that book.
Ryann (47:35):
I love the way she writes.
It's like chatting with afriend.
She's a great writer, and Ilove her um approach.
I I that's one of the firstpersonal development books I
read.
I love that one.
Such a good one.
I think that's on the book listtoo.
Um, I've got a book list goingfrom all the recommendations
from the authors and expertswho've been on the show.
(47:56):
So I think that's on there.
If not, I'll have to put it on.
And then the last question Ihave for you, Angela, is who or
what has taught you the most?
Anglea (48:05):
I would say grief has taught me the most that I've
ever learned in my lifetime.
Um, there's been a lot of pain,but there's been a lot of
awakening through that pain andtransformation in my own life
and a joy and a happiness that Iwouldn't have experienced
(48:25):
otherwise.
It seems weird to say thatbecause I lost my husband and
that was devastating, but I feelemotions in a totally different
way now.
And the joys are extremelyjoyful.
And so it's just, you know,it's a different life.
(48:47):
Um, I'm not saying that theprevious life wasn't wonderful,
but the new life has beenamazing as well.
And I'm really looking forwardto the future.
Ryann (49:00):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing your wisdom
with us, Angela.
Thank you for having me.
It's been a delight.
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