August 4, 2025 • 60 mins
Wondering how to turn the every day into something sacred? Today we're exploring midlife and adolescent rites of passage and everything in between. Liz’s life purpose is to help women and girls connect – and stay connected – with themselves. She is a guide on the Camino de Santiago, bringing women in midlife-ish to Spain and Portugal to experience the transformational benefits of walking the Camino. Liz is also a period coach and menstrual health educator who loves working with moms and their tweens and teens, especially during big transitions like puberty and menopause. And she’s also a mom. Liz and her husband are raising a daughter, who is 14 and stretching toward independence. They are a tight knit family who love travel, outdoorsy adventures, and good food. They live in Seattle with their big dog.
If you feel inspired please consider sharing this episode with a friend, writing a 5⭐️ review or becoming a Raising Wild Hearts Member here!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
When we allow ourselves to challenge
ourselves, when we open that upand we like take that first
step, literally that first stepon Camino, we like that like the
feeling of trust in yourself cangrow so much.
(00:22):
And you get to know yourself andsee yourself in a new way.
And for me, that is so importantin midlife-ish times because we
maybe have lost ourselves in ourwork.
We've maybe lost ourselves inour family.
Our identity has really becomeabout our doing and not who we
(00:43):
are as a person.
We've lost that connection toourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so glad you're here.
That was Liz Vivian.
Liz is a guide on the Camino deSantiago, bringing women in
midlife to Spain and Portugal toexperience the transformational
benefits of walking in theCamino.
She is also a period coach andmenstrual health educator.
(01:24):
I sound I wish we heard so muchlove on their family.
Liz's life purpose is really tohelp women and girls connect and
stay connected with themselves.
And that is definitely the truelife.
Cannot wait for you guys to hearthis conversation with Liz
(01:46):
Vivian.
Hi, Liz.
Welcome to the Raising WildHearts podcast.
I'm happy to be here with you.
I'm so happy to be here with youas well.
And from where I'm standing,this conversation is really
about rites of passage.
Like it was a theme that keptcoming up for me as I was
(02:08):
thinking about all the places wewere going to go today.
And I'm curious from whereyou're standing, why are rites
of passage so important forwomen and girls in our modern
times, especially?
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Oh, okay.
I love how you framed thisconversation that we're going to
have today, because my lifepurpose is all about helping
women and girls connect tothemselves and stay connected to
themselves.
And so rites of passageexperiences are those moments
(02:46):
where we have a chance torevisit who are we and what do
we care about?
And because we don't have a lotof those, at least in our modern
American culture, we don't havea lot of those opportunities
baked into our everyday lives.
(03:07):
We have to really create themintentionally in our family, in
our community, in our culture.
And so I just think they're sovaluable.
I also think we can like maybemake them feel like they're more
formal than they have to be whenwe talk about rites of passage.
(03:28):
And so I think we get to namewhatever that is for ourselves
and our family and what feelsreally important to us.
Um, but they are, I think, areally valuable moment to like
take a deep breath, like I justdid.
(03:48):
Like you take a deep breath andare like, oh, this is
intentionally what I'm choosing.
This is how I want to show up inthe world.
This is who I want to be.
And it's marking this moment.
Maybe you have grown or you'reabout to grow.
So puberty and perimenopause andthe menopause transformation,
(04:10):
like really bring opportunitiesto mark our lives with rites of
passage.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah.
So you just came right out ofthe gate with like my life's
purpose.
And I'm just like, yes, like allthe rainbows and the butterflies
and the fireworks, because thatjust to stand there, to sit
there and declare like this ismy life's purpose.
It just makes me so warm andfuzzy.
(04:37):
So for somebody here with ustoday who's listening and it's
like, oh my God, she said sheknows her life's purpose.
How cool is that?
And you know, to put a pen inthis for me too.
My life's purpose is to havemeaningful conversations that
will help change the world forgenerations to come.
And it took a really long timeto define that.
(04:59):
How about you?
How did you come to thisstatement, which I know will be
ever evolving, right?
But this statement of like mylife's purpose.
You sound so grounded andconfident in it.
So for someone who's seekingthat, how can we, how can they
find that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Yeah, because that's a great question.
So um my friend Tiffany Doofureminded me, I don't know,
probably five or six years agoat this purp at this point.
Um yeah, it's probably five orsix years ago that we had this
conversation where um shereminded me that a life purpose
(05:39):
is a choice, that it's notalways a lightning bolt that
just comes to you where you'relike, all of a sudden I know my
life purpose and like I feel it.
And so I took that to heart.
Like that made me feel like, oh,okay, it's not a thing that I am
failing at.
It's not a thing I'm just likemissing or not hearing, or you
(06:04):
know, I'm just not open to it,or what have you, that it's a
choice that we make.
And it, as you said, it doesevolve.
So for me, I it sort of walkedthrough, I don't know, my 20s
and 30s feeling like, yeah, Iwant to do good work and I want
to be a mom and I want to makean impact in the world, but it
(06:26):
wasn't really until probably my40s where I got more specific
about what that is.
And I will say that as I wasmaking a choice of where I
wanted to make an impact, mypurpose became more and more
clear the more I started topursue little inklings of it.
(06:52):
And so I got some whispers oflike, oh, I've had a career
working on issues impactingwomen and girls.
That has always been importantto me.
But my own journey aroundunderstanding my menstrual
cycle, around understanding mymenopause journey, and about
understanding, and really myCamino de Santiago, my walks in
(07:17):
the woods by myself, um reallyhelped me clarify more and more
specifically into your feelingwhen you heard me talk, like
just that grounding, like thisis what it is.
And I feel great every daythinking about how do I live up
to my life purpose, how do Ibring that into all my different
(07:40):
projects that are both familyand work-oriented.
So it's an evolving process, itis a choice, and it is about
following those tiny littleinklings that you start to hear,
and then you start doingsomething down that path, and
you're like, yep, this feelsgood, or like, oh, that's not
(08:03):
really for me.
I'm gonna go in a differentdirection with it.
And you sort of like fine-tune,fine-tune, fine-tune to get to a
point that feels really clearand solid.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
That's exactly what my experience has been as well.
That it's as you take a stepforward, you go, okay, here I
am.
Is this what I want to be doing?
No, not so much.
Okay, take a little left.
Okay, now, how about now?
Okay, and then it does.
It clarifies with time and withthe choices.
I loved that you used that wordchoice, with the choices that we
(08:37):
make every single day.
So there's the big choice,right?
There's this big life choice ofhow we want to live and our
values and you know, the throughline of our life.
But we also have like hundredsof opportunities in the day of
how we're gonna spend our time,how we're gonna love our people,
how we're gonna, you know, doour work, how we're gonna show
(08:59):
up in the car line, how we'regonna show up in every single,
you know, moment.
And so I love that you use thatword because it is, it's not a
lightning bolt.
It is a series of consciouschoices, if you will.
So I love that.
And I found that to be so truein my life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Oh, thank you for sharing.
I I want to add one thing too,which is that I think um it's
also about listening.
And for me, partly where my lifepurpose of helping women and
girls connect to themselves andstay connected to themselves
through these big lifetransitions partly came because
(09:43):
I had really quiet moments whereI could listen.
And we don't often like giveourselves that opportunity.
Sometimes we fill like everycommute or every drive to school
with a podcast, or we fill everymoment with the like, oh, I'm
checking in with friends.
And both of those things canfeel really positive and
(10:05):
nourishing.
And they also, we maybe areallowing ourselves some quiet
moments to listen to whatever iscoming to us.
And so listening, I think, canbe so helpful to connecting with
your purpose and finding, likeyou were saying, like, what are
(10:26):
those little steps forward?
And then what's my response tothat?
You have to like take a momentto listen to that before we just
like lead ourselves down all ofthese paths.
So, like, listening is so keyfor connecting with your purpose
and bringing it out into theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Yeah.
How do you find that thatlistening piece shows up for
you?
Are you listening to like thevoice of God?
Are you listening to the cuesthat your body's giving you?
Are you listening to nature?
Like, what is it that you'relike listening to?
Because someone might hear thatword and actually think
literally they're listening forsome words to be in their, you
(11:08):
know, in their minds, whichsometimes that's just like our
little monkey minds, liketelling us, like, no, don't do
it, or this is the thing, or ourover-analytical brains.
So what are we listening to,Liz?
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I'll share for me.
Um, I am a verymovement-oriented person.
I love to walk.
I am fairly wiggly.
Like I'm standing right now, um,because that is like a happy
place, a happy way for me to behaving a conversation.
(11:41):
Um, so for me, walking is verymeditative.
I like movement and um then nothaving any other stimulus
happening when I am walking andwhen I'm in nature, like that
could be around the trees in myneighborhood, but more often in
(12:01):
like more connected to trees.
I have a path near my house thathas water on one side and like a
little forested park on theother, and that is an amazing
place for me to listen to whatis coming up.
So sometimes that is my ownthoughts.
And sometimes it's I don't evenknow quite how to describe it.
(12:25):
Um, it's like the little thingsI both like feel in my body.
There's a little glimmer or asparkle of something.
Um, and I will say I havedeveloped over years a positive
relationship with my innercritic.
(12:46):
And I can, you know, sometimesit's her that I'm listening to,
and we need to have a veryparticular kind of a
conversation, but I know whereshe lives and I know how to
manage that conversation so thatit is fruitful, and I don't let
her bully me anymore, which itis a process to get to that
(13:08):
point.
So I will draw a distinction inum that this is a positive
listening.
It is not about my inner criticbullying me, and it is an
openness to um for me, it's notGod, but I could see how that's
(13:28):
what it would be for somepeople, that it is this like um
something bigger than me, whichfor me a lot of the time is
nature and it's feeling like aconnection to the world I live
in and people.
And it's like, what's happeningwhen my body is moving?
Also, I will add one more thing.
(13:48):
As an extrovert, sometimes thelistening is also talking, and
it is like noticing how I feelin a conversation with a trusted
person, my husband, my daughter,my friends, um, you know, a
great um conversation like this.
(14:09):
Every time I say something, I amlistening to how does that feel
in my body?
Is that energizing?
Do I feel more or less peace asI'm as I'm saying something?
And um am I feeling like more ofa pull forward when I say
(14:36):
something than am I sayingsomething and feeling like
closed off and like uh thatdidn't feel good in me is
another way that I'm likelistening.
I'm like testing out how thingsfeel in me.
So as kind of an extrovertedkinesthetic kind of a person,
(14:58):
I'm like, oh, how does it feelwhen I'm walking?
What are the things coming to mewhen I'm near nature?
And how does it feel to sharewith other people and like feel
what that is in me?
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
Yeah.
You've walked the Camino deSantiago.
What made you want to do that?
How many times did you do it?
And why that walk in particular?
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
Yeah, okay, great question.
So I first heard about theCamino de Santiago on my first
date with my husband because hehad walked it a few years prior,
and we were having dinner andchatting about travel and
adventure and just like, youknow, sharing the stories that
you share when you're on a datewith somebody that you might
really like.
(15:46):
Um, and so I I remember hearingabout his walk 500 miles across
Spain, thinking, what?
I love to walk.
And I love adventure.
How do I not already know aboutthis?
How have I not already done it?
Think and I it was in thatmoment where I was like, oh,
someday I'm gonna do that forsure.
(16:09):
And so it just captured myimagination, really, first
hearing about my husband'sstories about it and the
opportunity to challengeyourself, to make friends along
the way, and also to reallytravel differently.
It's a different experience totravel when you're walking from
(16:32):
town to town and farm tovineyard, and you're kind of
just at a slower pace, I wouldsay, of traveling.
So it captivated me.
And I had wanted to go then foryears.
Well, fast forward because I'vehad big jobs and I'm raising a
child, and there's not always anopportunity to just go and walk
(16:58):
for six weeks, but I always keptit on my list.
And when I left my last big jobin 2019, I as soon as I resigned
in the spirit of kind of thisbig menopausal volcano of a no
(17:21):
that just like came out like no,this is powerful.
It was powerful, and um, Ireally look back as like that
was the beginning of my whatreally was then like a five-year
menopause journey, not justliterally the hormonal piece of
it, but um but a journey throughthat process of menopause, which
(17:45):
is spiritual and emotional andenergetic and physical all
together.
And my husband said, Great,we're sending you to Spain.
Like you have to go walk, youhave to go do this uh right now.
And I still get goosebumps, likethinking about that and the
amazing person that I share mylife with.
(18:07):
Um, but I went and I walked.
My mother-in-law was going atthe time, and she had said, Oh,
everybody's invited.
We were like, we have kids andjobs, we can't just go do that.
And so I went and I spent daysand days by myself in the woods
walking.
And I really like fell in lovewith it in those first 10
(18:30):
minutes, honestly.
For me, as somebody who loves towalk and who um I just was like,
oh my god, this is amazing.
I am walking and I have mybackpack and I'm just heading to
the next town.
And I showed up mad.
I really like Ryan in thosefirst few days of my very first
(18:53):
Camino, this is in 2019, I justlike marched up and down the
hills.
I was like, I was ruminating andI was just feeling like sorry
for myself and sad and angry.
And after maybe like four hoursof walking on day one, those
(19:13):
feelings started to fade.
And I stopped at the place wewere staying that very first
night, and I read and I washedmy clothes and I got ready for
the next day.
There's this very peacefulrhythm to being on Camino.
I got up the next day and Iwalked and I was like charging
(19:35):
up and down the hills, mad, butit faded faster.
And the same thing happened onday three, and by day four, I
was like, oh, there I am.
Hello, Liz.
Wow, I got all of that out of mysystem, and I had a true like
(19:57):
reconnection moment with myself.
Like, oh, there I am, and I amconnected to myself and I know
myself and I love myself, andthat is what my very first
Camino was for me.
And I have now been back fourtimes for even longer walks and
shorter walks, and both bymyself and with other women in
(20:22):
midlife-ish, and they have allbeen very like transformative
experiences for me.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Wow.
What do you think that angerwas?
What do you think thatfrustration was?
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
I think that I might not have at the time I would
have said I was mad at otherpeople.
I was um leading a largestatewide nonprofit
organization, and I had gottento a moment where I was like,
nope, I disagree.
This is not what I am gonna bepart of.
(21:00):
And I was mad at myself that Icouldn't make it be what I
wanted it to be.
I was mad at the world and allthe systems, and I was, I think
also this like big shift thathappens with menopause, where
we're like, nope, that's notokay, and I'm gonna start saying
(21:25):
no.
And you know, sometimes ourtruth is anger, and it like
needs to move through us so thatwe're not just like holding on
to it.
So in hindsight, I can also seeall of that negative energy as
(21:46):
like some like not trustingmyself, not feeling good about
myself, and also feeling like Icould have done some things
differently.
I not so much a regret, butlike, oh Liz, that was
(22:07):
disappointing.
Like I disappointed myself.
And so in the beginning, thatanger felt very ego-driven, and
in hindsight, it feels more likea new truth coming out of me, if
that makes sense.
Yeah.
It was like now it feels lessego-driven and more like, oh, I
(22:30):
needed to make some changes in awhole variety of ways.
And I chose to do that incertain ways at the time.
And in hindsight, um, those areall good experiences to have
had, but in hindsight, I wouldhave had different, like I have
context for it now, right?
We have that in our life.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah.
When I first met you onCharlotte Albert's networking
call, Connect and Collaborate,shout out to Charlotte for
bringing amazing women togetherevery Wednesday at 11 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time.
And um, so when I first met youand I heard what you do, I was
(23:11):
just like, yes, please, yes,yes, yes, please come on the
podcast.
Speaking of listening, you know,um, and I had no idea what the
Camino de Santiago was, but allI pictured in my head was like
the book Wild, you know, themovie Wild, which I think too
was like the Pacific Crest Trailthat she did.
And it was this big milestonemoment for her life.
(23:34):
I think she had just gonethrough a divorce, like she was
kind of like coming of age.
And I believe Daryl Stray wasmidlife-ish too, right?
Okay, yeah.
And so that's what I pictured.
And, you know, I thought, okay,I haven't had too many rites of
passage in my life.
Like I've had, like, you know,my first, you know, period was
(23:56):
not an event.
It was not celebrated, right?
And so that was a missedopportunity.
And then having children, youknow, that was definitely my
biggest one.
I mean, I remember afterbirthing my first child being
like, my body did that.
I mean, it was just this reallyempowered, uh, like hear me
(24:19):
roar, mama bear.
Like, I can't believe I didthat.
How do I even have the capacityto do that?
And yet I did that.
And, you know, I didn't have tothink about making a baby or
like analyze what she would be.
Like it just happened.
And and it just, oh, it blew mymind.
And so that was really, and thenof course, my my two kids after
(24:43):
two were different rites ofpassage, but the first one,
there's something about thefirst one, you know, the first,
right?
And it's we're talking aboutthat, you know, that different,
that that event in time whereeverything is different after.
And and so that for me was thattime of my first.
And so I just thought that's me.
(25:05):
I'm doing that.
And I don't know when and Idon't know how my kids are still
young, like you're saying, likelogistically right now, probably
not gonna happen.
But as soon as you said it, Iwas like, I'm gonna do that one
day.
I'm gonna do that.
And so I'm gonna do it.
I don't know when.
Um, you know, not this year,maybe not next year, but soon.
And so for somebody who ishearing those whispers, because
(25:26):
now you've led many women,right, along with you in these
walks, for someone who's hearingthose whispers, what would you
say to them embarking on thisfirst like big journey that
feels like a hell yes for them?
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Okay, well, first of all, I love that like the
hearing of the yes, because as Ishared about my first Camino was
12 days and it came out of thatvolcano of a no.
My second Camino, I walked for42 days, and it was this like
delicious, self-affirming yes.
(26:04):
It came from a very differentplace, and it was physically
challenging, it was mentally andemotionally challenging, it was
spiritually challenging for me,and uh yet there's a huge yes in
(26:25):
all of that because it's such agift, and so I would say to you
and to everybody who's like, ohyeah, like I feel a little spark
about that, to just keepaffirming that yes to yourself
and to find the little ways inyour everyday life.
(26:47):
There's maybe like a 1% whereyou're like, I'm gonna daydream
about that for a few minutes.
Oh, I'm gonna watch this movie,I'm gonna read this book, I'm
going to just like look at awebsite where somebody talks
about how they did it.
What is giving you thegoosebumps about it?
(27:08):
And one of the things I talk alot about walking a Camino is
that it can be verytransactional.
You are walking to adestination, it is linear, and
so bringing some like femininecyclical awareness to what is a
very linear counting thekilometers process is very
(27:32):
important.
And so I encourage you to thinkabout um like why this is
meaningful to you and how it islike bringing meaning to this
bucket list experience is what Iam all about.
So we're not just like countingkilometers and getting stamps,
both of which feel very good andare fun.
(27:53):
Um, but how do you make thatopportunity really meaningful?
And so what's your why?
What is your why for why youwant to do it?
And just keep connecting withthat juicy why that is gonna
spur you on because your why isgonna help you with training
(28:14):
because it takes preparation tobe ready to do this.
It's really healthy for yourbody to be ready to walk eight
to 12 miles a day, and knowingyour why is gonna help you when
things feel challenging, eitherphysically or mentally,
(28:36):
spiritually, being connected towhy this is important to you.
So that's what I would encourageeverybody to like feel and think
their way through.
Why?
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Wow.
So I've got tears in my eyes asusual.
And I just realized that thethought of doing this scares the
absolute shit out of me.
And that's why I need to do it.
And I often tell my kids thereare two types of scared.
(29:11):
There's one type of scared oflike, oh, this isn't for me.
I'm, you know, possibly indanger.
This is not a safe situation.
And then there's the other typeof scared that is like, ooh, I'm
really scared, but I'm kind ofnerve-sided.
And this is a challenge that Ineed to overcome, and this is
for me.
And that's how I feel aboutthis.
(29:32):
I've had such an intimaterelationship with terror and
fear since infancy.
I was born into a strugglinghome with struggling parents who
were, you know, perfectlyimperfect.
And that's probably why my soulchose them, right?
And so this fear for me has beenpresent for decades and it comes
(29:53):
up in very inconvenientsituations.
And I'm like, oh my God, notthis again.
And so there's this um lettinggo that needs to take place
where it's like time to go, timeto go, fear, time like your job
here is done.
Like, and so there's this likedancing with that fear and
(30:15):
putting myself in a challengingsituation that feels like needs
to occur.
So there's that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Oh, yes, and thank you for sharing.
I get teary thinking about it aswell, and I get teary hearing
your story because it is so likeit's so you and it's so unique
and so special, and you knowyour why.
And it is also like reallycommon.
(30:45):
We, you know, we um because wedon't often have those ways that
we can safely challengeourselves, and we can shy away
from challenge, we can feellike, oh, that's not for me for
whatever reason.
It's pretty easy to say, oh, Ican't, oh and so when we allow
(31:11):
ourselves to challengeourselves, when we open that up
and we like take that firststep, literally that first step
on Camino, we like that, likethe feeling of trust in yourself
can grow so much.
(31:32):
And you get to know yourself andsee yourself in a new way.
And for me, that is so importantin midlife-ish times because we
maybe have lost ourselves in ourwork, we've maybe lost ourselves
in our family, our identity hasreally become about our doing
and not who we are as a person.
(31:54):
We've lost that connection toourselves.
And on top of that, throughperimenopause and then the
ultimate menopause journey, weare changing so much physically.
We are noticing different thingsabout our body and our brain.
And we it can be very easy tolose connection with who we are.
(32:15):
And so the physical challenge,the mental, emotional, spiritual
challenge that brings us back toourselves at a moment where we
can feel really disconnected isvery potent.
And I think so much can sparkfor women in midlife-ish in
those moments where we're like,oh, this is hard.
(32:38):
Oh, this is challenging me.
And at the end of that, you havea connection and a trust in
yourself where you're just like,oh, I'm so powerful, like give
me, like, I can do anything.
That is how I feel at the end ofa Camino every time.
And that is what I want women tofeel.
That trust and that power andthe joy, and like our heart full
(33:03):
of gratefulness is like such amoment to achieve, but then like
the possibility of carrying thatforward right into the next, the
next camino.
We talk about you, you know,when you walk a camino, you are
getting into Santiago deCompostela and you're getting to
(33:26):
zero kilometer.
You've been counting downwhether you started at 100
kilometers or 500 kilometersout.
You're getting to zerokilometer.
And what I love about thatspace, like literally that place
on earth, but also the spirit ofthe place, is that zero
kilometer is both the ending andthe beginning.
(33:49):
It is the ending, it's yourcelebratory moment.
It is the like, oh my God, I didit.
I am amazing.
And like, look at me.
I did this.
But then it's also zerokilometer for where you go with
that and what's next for you.
Um, I was talking to a friendyesterday who came with me on a
(34:11):
Camino in May when I was leadinggroups of women, and she's like,
Yeah, like I loved it, but I wasso present in my Camino, I
didn't really know what it meantin my life until I got home.
And so that zero kilometer, youcelebrate, and then it's like
launching what is next for you,and that's where I want women
(34:34):
like I that's my experience, andI just want people to feel that
trust and that connection tothemselves to then carry forward
into whatever that is, theirwork, their purpose, their
family, their community, um, tobe to be connected.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Yeah.
In what ways have your walkshelped you be a better mom, a
better wife, a better human?
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah, well, um first a better human in that I think I
am a better human in um likebeing connected to myself, being
uh in touch with myself andhaving a strong relationship
with myself that is positive andsupportive helps me like show up
(35:25):
in the world that way.
So that as I'm interacting topeople and I'm thinking
creatively about what I want todo, that's really important.
Um when I went on my Caminos in2019 and 2022, uh after I came
(35:46):
home, I asked my daughter.
So when I first went, she was insecond grade.
When I went, um, then she was infifth grade.
And so after um, after that tripin 2022, I asked her, like, hmm,
do you how am I different afterCamino?
Like, what do you think?
And do you know what she said?
(36:07):
She said to me, um, it made youless stressed and more at peace
with yourself.
And she said, being a lessstressed and a more self-assured
mom has helped her feel moresecure in herself.
So I will say my daughterchanges.
(36:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Another woman who came with meum this May, she asked her teen
son um when she got home if henoticed any difference in her.
And he was like, Yeah, you'rehappier.
So our kids know us and they seethe change.
Um, I will say that, you know, Ifeel a lot of gratitude for my
(36:55):
husband and daughter forsupporting me to do this work in
the world, to have myexperiences.
And I think every time I comehome full of gratitude, like,
doesn't that make me a greatperson to live with?
And, you know, um, how to showup as a really positive,
supportive wife and mother,because those roles are very
(37:17):
important to me.
My husband and daughter were avery tight-knit little triangle,
you know, in our in our family.
And um they're they're myfavorites.
So I want to be a good human formyself and for the world and
also for them.
Um, I think the other thing Iwill say is that uh the Camino
(37:43):
has given me lots of time tolisten for my purpose and to
have conversations with myselfabout what's important to me and
how I want to bring my purposeout into the world.
So it's an opportunity forcreative thinking because when
we get maybe dysregulated or offour game in our everyday life,
(38:03):
and we're just sort of like,life is full, I'm doing one
thing and then the next thing,the opportunity to rest and
refresh on Camino gives somespace to be creative and to
settle your nervous systembecause you're in nature every
day.
And to because we take such goodcare of you, you have time to
(38:25):
rest and reflect and refresh.
And that gives you like an justliterally an openness in your
brain to creativity and problemsolving and considering in a way
that when we are kind of movingat a higher heart rate all the
(38:48):
time in everyday life, and we'reum not able to have that time
and space or create that forourselves, we can create it on
Camino.
So I think it has helped me umlike launch impactful businesses
and um or like fine-tune likewhat are my ideas?
(39:11):
They, you know, they come to youin a different way than quote
unquote everyday life, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
Yeah.
That is so powerful.
So I heard you say so many ofthe things that people walk away
with are self-trust, an improvedrelationship with your children,
and I'm assuming spouses andother family members, feeling
happier, you know, being a moresupportive and loving presence
(39:38):
for the people under your roof,and then a renewed sense of
purpose.
I mean, and we just it makes methink of like just going through
the motions of everyday life andkind of getting kind of you know
stuck in this little calibrationthat we do.
It's this familiar little rhythmand routine we have going on.
(40:01):
And to pattern interruptinterrupt that, we have to do
something a little drastic,right?
And for some people, it's likegoing to a jungle in Costa Rica
and doing ayahuasca.
For some people, it's a Camino,for some people it's you know,
it's something else, uh, youknow, hiking a mountain.
And I think this just calls tome so much.
(40:21):
And I hope when I'm ready to domy first Camino that you're
still guiding women, because ifyou are, I'm doing it with you,
Liz.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
Um that's wonderful.
I would love to do it with you.
Yeah, I would love that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Yeah, amazing.
So I'm curious if this work youdo in the world now for helping
mothers guide their daughtersinto puberty and through
adolescence.
I wonder if that work came froma renewed sense of clarity from
your Caminos.
(40:53):
Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
It did.
Cool.
Yeah.
Great.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
That helps me bring it full circle then.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
Yes, absolutely.
And um, you know, part of thatwas I knew that my daughter
would be starting her cyclesoon.
Her first period was gonna becoming at some point.
I was in perimenopause.
I knew my cycle was windingdown.
And so I think it was very muchon my mind as I was considering
(41:23):
both who am I, what is mypurpose?
Kind of big questions, and thenalso like literally, what am I
gonna do for my next job?
Like, what do I want to createfor my life?
And how do I want to earn aliving?
And so all of that really cametogether in um the right timing
for me to um want to supportpeople to have like pain-free,
(41:50):
positive relationships withtheir periods from the very
beginning to the very end.
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
Yeah, and that's how raising flora was born.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (41:57):
That's how raising flora was born.
It was like in the woods.
And you know what?
I took a picture of the momentthat it happened, um, where I I
I had a moment.
I was like, oh, okay, this isbig.
And I was um in the woods.
There were birds circling above.
My family will tell you I'mobsessed with the big birds.
(42:19):
I love it when the bald eaglesfly near me here where we live.
And we love birds too.
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Uh we're we're a bird household.
Never thought that would happen.
Never I would never thought Iwould say that one about myself,
but we love birds.
SPEAKER_02 (42:32):
There you go.
Yes.
So I had I had that moment whereI was like, and at the time,
that moment was okay, I'm gonnamake periods normal.
I am gonna make this normal.
This is normal.
And that is where that firstidea started.
And since then, I have, youknow, gone through lots of
learning experiences andcertifications and practices and
(42:54):
teaching and working withpeople, and it has evolved into
what I do now at Raising Flora.
But that first idea happened.
And so now every time on Camino,where somebody will stop me and
say, Liz, I made a decision.
I'm like, oh, let's take apicture.
And then I send people like thisis your decision moment picture.
Do it, you know.
That's just like it's marking ameaningful moment for people.
SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
Yeah.
It's so powerful.
So oh gosh, I'm just likeletting that land because I to
give ourselves that opportunity,like what a gift.
Like, I just like what a gift,what a gift you are, and what a
gift these women who arechoosing to do this are giving
themselves.
(43:40):
And I love it.
So thank you.
Yeah.
I have three kids, two daughterswho are eight and a half and ten
and a half.
We're celebrating half birthdaysnow in our house because we just
don't have enough going on.
So we decided that we would nowcelebrate half birthdays.
So I love it.
(44:00):
Yes.
So they're eight and a half andten and a half, and then I have
a boy too, who's uh three and ahalf.
And um, but with my girls, I'mlike, oh, they're like coming
upon the stage, they're they'regetting ready, you know, as you
know, life goes by very fast andour kids grow up very fast.
And so I'm like, it's gonna behappening tomorrow.
(44:20):
So I just want to ask like somepractical questions, like,
what's the age range that we'regonna be expecting this?
When should we start talkingabout this?
Like, and and I've done myversion of that, but I'd love to
hear you, a professionalperson's opinion.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Okay, so the average age of afirst period is still 12.
Okay, but the range of whenfirst periods start have been
growing.
And so we've started to seeearlier and earlier starts of
first period.
And so it could be nine, 10, um,11.
(45:01):
Um, so I would say that is kindof the time to expect.
The other thing I'll say is thata first period um can come a
little bit later in puberty.
So there are some signs,usually.
This is not, you know, when wetalk about bodies, we talk about
(45:22):
like what is the range ofnormal.
Everybody is not the same.
We all have um, you know,differences about our bodies.
So this is not entirelypredictable, but oftentimes
before a first period comes,girls have pubic hair and
underarm hair.
(45:42):
They have breast buds, which arelike those really kind of hard,
like maybe nickel size um flatlumps under their nipples, um,
and they have a growth spurt.
And so it's not you can usuallyhave some signs that a first
period is coming.
(46:03):
That's not always true.
As I said, everybody isdifferent.
And to your question of when doI start talking about this, is
like anytime, anytime starttalking about it.
And a few things that you canuse to start talking about it is
you can share your own firstperiod story, good, bad, ugly.
(46:26):
You can talk about yourexperience, you can transition
that to talking about your hopesfor your daughter.
You can invite her questions andanswer them or research them
together if you don't know theanswer, or you can come talk to
me about it.
I am always happy to answerpeople's questions.
(46:48):
You can um also share some umbooks.
Sometimes we have kids thatdon't really want to talk to us,
and so offering a book on theirbedside table or just giving
them some resources.
You want to be their go-toperson for all things, period.
(47:09):
And part of that is giving themsome resources.
And then the last thing I'llsay, and I'm happy to share
this, is how to put together afirst period kit because that
can be a great opener to give agift that is like, hey, let's
make sure you're prepared.
So some girls want to talk aboutwhat does this mean in my life?
(47:29):
What is it gonna feel like?
And some girls are maybe likesuper pragmatic.
How do I manage when I'mbleeding?
And I think one of the mostimportant things we can teach
our daughters is that when youare cycling, you are cycling,
you are moving through a cycle.
(47:51):
It's not just the days that webleed, and how do we manage our
period?
It is helping them understand uhtheir body through a cycle.
And so one thing you can do isshare your cycle day, and you
can make that an open thing inyour family or with your
(48:12):
daughters, like, oh, today is mycycle day 15.
This is how I'm feeling.
This is what a cycle day 15 is.
And for everybody, day one isthe first day of your period,
and then you count forward fromthere.
So those are some conversationstarters or some ways to think
about both from a preparingperspective for your daughters,
(48:36):
but also uh preparing you to beopen.
It's a little bit challengingfor some of us who felt like we
kept this very private our wholelives or very secret.
We took our tampon into ourshirt sleeve and all of those
kinds of things.
So I encourage moms to practicesome of this so that we as moms
(48:59):
are also ready for ourdaughter's first period.
It's about getting us ready andgetting our daughters ready, if
that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
Totally.
Oh my gosh, those are sovaluable.
Like those are the that is sohelpful.
Um, because even, you know, I'mlike in love with my cycle.
And I I like over the last likedecade, I'm like, oh, I just
love my cycle.
I love like knowing when uh howI'm gonna feel on a certain day.
(49:29):
And then I was like, you know,starting to feel irregular.
And I'm like, oh my God,paramenopause, what?
No, I just fell in love withyou, cycle.
And so I'm I'm starting togrieve that, you know, it will
be different and you know, itone day I won't have it.
And I never really consideredthat.
I never really like thought, oh,one day I won't have my period.
(49:52):
I never just like contemplatedthat.
So my question is, are periodssporadic when they first start?
Because I don't remember.
I started my first, I had myfirst period when I was 12, I'm
pretty sure.
And I'm think I'm rememberingthat they were sporadic and they
were a little hard.
I don't, I didn't track them,but I feel like they were
(50:14):
unpredictable.
Is that true?
It is true.
Okay.
So just like perimenopause, it'sthis transitionary period,
right?
Yes.
No pun intent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (50:23):
Yeah.
Like think about puberty andperimenopause or uh yeah, think
about them as mirror images ofeach other.
One cycle is ramping up and onecycle is ramping down.
And again, bodies are different,but they don't often go from
zero to 60 or 60 to zero all atonce.
There's a process that ishappening.
(50:45):
And so sometimes for ourdaughters, um, their cycle can
be irregular in the beginning.
It might be 19 days, it might be40 days, it might be 22 days or
28 days.
It can be really helpful to justhelp them track that because um
(51:05):
our period is the result of anovulation.
Ovulation is actually the mainevent, and it is a vital sign of
health.
And so helping our girlsunderstand their cycle as part
of a whole healthy body systemcan be really valuable.
SPEAKER_01 (51:25):
And so ovulating before they get their first
period, right?
I mean, that's like, wow, youovulated.
You had like, and what I've beentelling them is like, you know,
you can have babies when you getyour cycle.
But I feel like that's such awatered down, like health class
way to say it.
Like, you know what I mean?
And so I'm like, and I want itto be this celebration.
(51:47):
Sorry to interject, but I wantit to be this like celebration
and this like, whoa, this isamazing.
Look at your body.
You said it's a sign of health,like how vibrant and brilliant
our bodies are, right?
SPEAKER_02 (51:59):
Yes, absolutely.
Because it takes the rightcombination of hormones rising
and falling at the right momentsto make ovulation happen.
And so when ovulation happens,we know that the systems in our
body are working.
That's why it's so valuablebecause our primary reproductive
(52:21):
hormones, estrogen andprogesterone, work together to
impact our whole body.
Our brains need estrogen andprogesterone, not just our
ovaries, our bones, our breasts,our um for our mental
well-being, for our bloodvessels, need those reproductive
(52:42):
hormones to rise and fall witheach other in concert in order
to maintain healthy systemsthroughout our body.
So, yes, it means that we havean opportunity to get pregnant.
It is, you know, some girls andyou know yourself and your
daughters best.
I will say that to everybodyover and over again.
(53:05):
There is like magic in creatinglife.
And if we can talk to our younggirls about knowing their body,
about understanding that theyare changing every day of their
cycle and loving themselvesthrough every season of their
(53:25):
cycle, that is an incrediblyvaluable place to start that is
less about now you can makebabies and like, oh, be careful
because now you can make babies.
Because those conversations arealso very important.
But for our 10-year-olds, thepiece about making babies is
(53:45):
maybe further down the line,right?
Or about all of their choices.
We don't necessarily start withpregnancy with our youngest
girls, right?
But giving them the opportunityto say, oh, my cycle can support
me in my life.
Oh, um, pain is common, but notnormal.
If you're having pain, let'ssolve those problems.
(54:09):
Ovulation is a vital sign ofhealth.
Your whole body needs yourreproductive hormones.
And when you're ovulating andhaving a period, it tells us
that your body is healthy.
And how cool is that to knowyour body?
So different angles fordifferent kids and different
moms for how you might approachintroducing this or supporting
(54:31):
your daughters through theircycles.
And yes, irregularity is part ofthat, and um, kind of the some
sense of humor and patience andgrace with leaks and you know,
needing to wash bedsheetsbecause who among us has not had
to do that, right?
Normalizing all of that andnormalizing that yeah, they're
(54:54):
gonna have some short and somelong.
It can take up to 10 years tofor a cycle to settle into what
is gonna become their regularcycle.
Wow.
Yeah.
Sometimes that happens as soonas a couple of years, and
sometimes it takes longer.
SPEAKER_01 (55:09):
Okay.
So you just your work in theworld, just thank you from the
bottom of my heart.
And I want to tell everybodywhere they can find you, follow
you, connect with you, and learnmore from you because I know
people are gonna want to hearmore.
SPEAKER_02 (55:26):
Yeah, I'm happy to share.
So um, you can find me atraisingflora.com where I have
free resources.
You can join my mailing listthere.
You can book a free call with meif you want to hop on a
20-minute phone call or Zoom andjust ask questions like what
Ryan has been asking right now.
(55:48):
You can also book a longerconsult as well.
Um, I do some social media.
So um on Instagram atraisingflora, there are again
great resources aboutapproaching first periods and
how to make that a healthypositive experience.
(56:08):
And then you can also find me atfloraonfoot.com where you can
read all about my Caminos forwomen in midlife-ish.
Um, and I have spots open for2026 Caminos.
So come have a chat with meabout that.
I will chat about periods andCaminos all day long.
SPEAKER_01 (56:29):
I love it.
Two seemingly very differentthings that are, again, like it
just makes sense.
Like it just what you have donewith your purpose and with your
work in the world is soadmirable.
And I, you know, I love that.
And I love it as an example forme.
I love it as an example for thewomen who are listening right
now, that you can bemultipassionate, you can have
(56:51):
these different interests inyour life, and ultimately there
is a connection betweeneverything that your heart is
feeling called for.
So thank you for being just aridiculously amazing example for
that.
And um, this might be one of myfavorite conversations ever,
Liz.
I just love it so much.
(57:12):
But as we wrap up, because it'sthat time, I'm gonna ask you now
the three kind of rapid firequestions that I ask everybody
at the end of the interview.
And the first one is what'sbringing you joy today?
SPEAKER_02 (57:23):
Water.
Mmm.
Um just I have a goal to drinkmore water.
Yeah.
And so I have been um, yeah, Ilove my water bottle and like my
intentionality to get water inme.
Water bringing me joy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (57:40):
Simplicity.
Amazing.
Totally.
I love it.
What if anything are youreading?
SPEAKER_02 (57:47):
Oh, I'm reading a spy novel and I cannot remember
the name of it, and that'sprobably not significant at this
point, but I have been um likeI'm really into fiction these
days, and I do love a good spynovel.
SPEAKER_01 (58:05):
Okay, cool.
And then the last question Ihave for you is who or what has
taught you the most?
SPEAKER_02 (58:12):
Oh wow.
Okay.
I don't know if I can do thatone rapid fire, but um, I mean,
my husband and daughter come tomind as people who have taught
me the most about both like theperson I want to be, but also
really concrete things abouttrying things in life.
(58:34):
One of our family values isadventure, and sometimes that is
learning to eat asparagus, andsometimes that is walking a
camino.
And those things really comefrom my my family, my husband
and my daughter.
And you know, I've taught myselfa lot.
SPEAKER_01 (58:54):
Beautiful.
Yeah, so thank you so much forbeing here.
SPEAKER_02 (58:59):
Thank you so much.
This I love this conversationtoo!
When we allow ourselves to challenge
ourselves, when we open that upand we like take that first
step, literally that first stepon Camino, we like that like the
feeling of trust in yourself cangrow so much.
(00:22):
And you get to know yourself andsee yourself in a new way.
And for me, that is so importantin midlife-ish times because we
maybe have lost ourselves in ourwork.
We've maybe lost ourselves inour family.
Our identity has really becomeabout our doing and not who we
(00:43):
are as a person.
We've lost that connection toourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so glad you're here.
That was Liz Vivian.
Liz is a guide on the Camino deSantiago, bringing women in
midlife to Spain and Portugal toexperience the transformational
benefits of walking in theCamino.
She is also a period coach andmenstrual health educator.
(01:24):
I sound I wish we heard so muchlove on their family.
Liz's life purpose is really tohelp women and girls connect and
stay connected with themselves.
And that is definitely the truelife.
Cannot wait for you guys to hearthis conversation with Liz
(01:46):
Vivian.
Hi, Liz.
Welcome to the Raising WildHearts podcast.
I'm happy to be here with you.
I'm so happy to be here with youas well.
And from where I'm standing,this conversation is really
about rites of passage.
Like it was a theme that keptcoming up for me as I was
(02:08):
thinking about all the places wewere going to go today.
And I'm curious from whereyou're standing, why are rites
of passage so important forwomen and girls in our modern
times, especially?
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Oh, okay.
I love how you framed thisconversation that we're going to
have today, because my lifepurpose is all about helping
women and girls connect tothemselves and stay connected to
themselves.
And so rites of passageexperiences are those moments
(02:46):
where we have a chance torevisit who are we and what do
we care about?
And because we don't have a lotof those, at least in our modern
American culture, we don't havea lot of those opportunities
baked into our everyday lives.
(03:07):
We have to really create themintentionally in our family, in
our community, in our culture.
And so I just think they're sovaluable.
I also think we can like maybemake them feel like they're more
formal than they have to be whenwe talk about rites of passage.
(03:28):
And so I think we get to namewhatever that is for ourselves
and our family and what feelsreally important to us.
Um, but they are, I think, areally valuable moment to like
take a deep breath, like I justdid.
(03:48):
Like you take a deep breath andare like, oh, this is
intentionally what I'm choosing.
This is how I want to show up inthe world.
This is who I want to be.
And it's marking this moment.
Maybe you have grown or you'reabout to grow.
So puberty and perimenopause andthe menopause transformation,
(04:10):
like really bring opportunitiesto mark our lives with rites of
passage.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah.
So you just came right out ofthe gate with like my life's
purpose.
And I'm just like, yes, like allthe rainbows and the butterflies
and the fireworks, because thatjust to stand there, to sit
there and declare like this ismy life's purpose.
It just makes me so warm andfuzzy.
(04:37):
So for somebody here with ustoday who's listening and it's
like, oh my God, she said sheknows her life's purpose.
How cool is that?
And you know, to put a pen inthis for me too.
My life's purpose is to havemeaningful conversations that
will help change the world forgenerations to come.
And it took a really long timeto define that.
(04:59):
How about you?
How did you come to thisstatement, which I know will be
ever evolving, right?
But this statement of like mylife's purpose.
You sound so grounded andconfident in it.
So for someone who's seekingthat, how can we, how can they
find that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Yeah, because that's a great question.
So um my friend Tiffany Doofureminded me, I don't know,
probably five or six years agoat this purp at this point.
Um yeah, it's probably five orsix years ago that we had this
conversation where um shereminded me that a life purpose
(05:39):
is a choice, that it's notalways a lightning bolt that
just comes to you where you'relike, all of a sudden I know my
life purpose and like I feel it.
And so I took that to heart.
Like that made me feel like, oh,okay, it's not a thing that I am
failing at.
It's not a thing I'm just likemissing or not hearing, or you
(06:04):
know, I'm just not open to it,or what have you, that it's a
choice that we make.
And it, as you said, it doesevolve.
So for me, I it sort of walkedthrough, I don't know, my 20s
and 30s feeling like, yeah, Iwant to do good work and I want
to be a mom and I want to makean impact in the world, but it
(06:26):
wasn't really until probably my40s where I got more specific
about what that is.
And I will say that as I wasmaking a choice of where I
wanted to make an impact, mypurpose became more and more
clear the more I started topursue little inklings of it.
(06:52):
And so I got some whispers oflike, oh, I've had a career
working on issues impactingwomen and girls.
That has always been importantto me.
But my own journey aroundunderstanding my menstrual
cycle, around understanding mymenopause journey, and about
understanding, and really myCamino de Santiago, my walks in
(07:17):
the woods by myself, um reallyhelped me clarify more and more
specifically into your feelingwhen you heard me talk, like
just that grounding, like thisis what it is.
And I feel great every daythinking about how do I live up
to my life purpose, how do Ibring that into all my different
(07:40):
projects that are both familyand work-oriented.
So it's an evolving process, itis a choice, and it is about
following those tiny littleinklings that you start to hear,
and then you start doingsomething down that path, and
you're like, yep, this feelsgood, or like, oh, that's not
(08:03):
really for me.
I'm gonna go in a differentdirection with it.
And you sort of like fine-tune,fine-tune, fine-tune to get to a
point that feels really clearand solid.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
That's exactly what my experience has been as well.
That it's as you take a stepforward, you go, okay, here I
am.
Is this what I want to be doing?
No, not so much.
Okay, take a little left.
Okay, now, how about now?
Okay, and then it does.
It clarifies with time and withthe choices.
I loved that you used that wordchoice, with the choices that we
(08:37):
make every single day.
So there's the big choice,right?
There's this big life choice ofhow we want to live and our
values and you know, the throughline of our life.
But we also have like hundredsof opportunities in the day of
how we're gonna spend our time,how we're gonna love our people,
how we're gonna, you know, doour work, how we're gonna show
(08:59):
up in the car line, how we'regonna show up in every single,
you know, moment.
And so I love that you use thatword because it is, it's not a
lightning bolt.
It is a series of consciouschoices, if you will.
So I love that.
And I found that to be so truein my life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Oh, thank you for sharing.
I I want to add one thing too,which is that I think um it's
also about listening.
And for me, partly where my lifepurpose of helping women and
girls connect to themselves andstay connected to themselves
through these big lifetransitions partly came because
(09:43):
I had really quiet moments whereI could listen.
And we don't often like giveourselves that opportunity.
Sometimes we fill like everycommute or every drive to school
with a podcast, or we fill everymoment with the like, oh, I'm
checking in with friends.
And both of those things canfeel really positive and
(10:05):
nourishing.
And they also, we maybe areallowing ourselves some quiet
moments to listen to whatever iscoming to us.
And so listening, I think, canbe so helpful to connecting with
your purpose and finding, likeyou were saying, like, what are
(10:26):
those little steps forward?
And then what's my response tothat?
You have to like take a momentto listen to that before we just
like lead ourselves down all ofthese paths.
So, like, listening is so keyfor connecting with your purpose
and bringing it out into theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Yeah.
How do you find that thatlistening piece shows up for
you?
Are you listening to like thevoice of God?
Are you listening to the cuesthat your body's giving you?
Are you listening to nature?
Like, what is it that you'relike listening to?
Because someone might hear thatword and actually think
literally they're listening forsome words to be in their, you
(11:08):
know, in their minds, whichsometimes that's just like our
little monkey minds, liketelling us, like, no, don't do
it, or this is the thing, or ourover-analytical brains.
So what are we listening to,Liz?
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I'll share for me.
Um, I am a verymovement-oriented person.
I love to walk.
I am fairly wiggly.
Like I'm standing right now, um,because that is like a happy
place, a happy way for me to behaving a conversation.
(11:41):
Um, so for me, walking is verymeditative.
I like movement and um then nothaving any other stimulus
happening when I am walking andwhen I'm in nature, like that
could be around the trees in myneighborhood, but more often in
(12:01):
like more connected to trees.
I have a path near my house thathas water on one side and like a
little forested park on theother, and that is an amazing
place for me to listen to whatis coming up.
So sometimes that is my ownthoughts.
And sometimes it's I don't evenknow quite how to describe it.
(12:25):
Um, it's like the little thingsI both like feel in my body.
There's a little glimmer or asparkle of something.
Um, and I will say I havedeveloped over years a positive
relationship with my innercritic.
(12:46):
And I can, you know, sometimesit's her that I'm listening to,
and we need to have a veryparticular kind of a
conversation, but I know whereshe lives and I know how to
manage that conversation so thatit is fruitful, and I don't let
her bully me anymore, which itis a process to get to that
(13:08):
point.
So I will draw a distinction inum that this is a positive
listening.
It is not about my inner criticbullying me, and it is an
openness to um for me, it's notGod, but I could see how that's
(13:28):
what it would be for somepeople, that it is this like um
something bigger than me, whichfor me a lot of the time is
nature and it's feeling like aconnection to the world I live
in and people.
And it's like, what's happeningwhen my body is moving?
Also, I will add one more thing.
(13:48):
As an extrovert, sometimes thelistening is also talking, and
it is like noticing how I feelin a conversation with a trusted
person, my husband, my daughter,my friends, um, you know, a
great um conversation like this.
(14:09):
Every time I say something, I amlistening to how does that feel
in my body?
Is that energizing?
Do I feel more or less peace asI'm as I'm saying something?
And um am I feeling like more ofa pull forward when I say
(14:36):
something than am I sayingsomething and feeling like
closed off and like uh thatdidn't feel good in me is
another way that I'm likelistening.
I'm like testing out how thingsfeel in me.
So as kind of an extrovertedkinesthetic kind of a person,
(14:58):
I'm like, oh, how does it feelwhen I'm walking?
What are the things coming to mewhen I'm near nature?
And how does it feel to sharewith other people and like feel
what that is in me?
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
Yeah.
You've walked the Camino deSantiago.
What made you want to do that?
How many times did you do it?
And why that walk in particular?
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
Yeah, okay, great question.
So I first heard about theCamino de Santiago on my first
date with my husband because hehad walked it a few years prior,
and we were having dinner andchatting about travel and
adventure and just like, youknow, sharing the stories that
you share when you're on a datewith somebody that you might
really like.
(15:46):
Um, and so I I remember hearingabout his walk 500 miles across
Spain, thinking, what?
I love to walk.
And I love adventure.
How do I not already know aboutthis?
How have I not already done it?
Think and I it was in thatmoment where I was like, oh,
someday I'm gonna do that forsure.
(16:09):
And so it just captured myimagination, really, first
hearing about my husband'sstories about it and the
opportunity to challengeyourself, to make friends along
the way, and also to reallytravel differently.
It's a different experience totravel when you're walking from
(16:32):
town to town and farm tovineyard, and you're kind of
just at a slower pace, I wouldsay, of traveling.
So it captivated me.
And I had wanted to go then foryears.
Well, fast forward because I'vehad big jobs and I'm raising a
child, and there's not always anopportunity to just go and walk
(16:58):
for six weeks, but I always keptit on my list.
And when I left my last big jobin 2019, I as soon as I resigned
in the spirit of kind of thisbig menopausal volcano of a no
(17:21):
that just like came out like no,this is powerful.
It was powerful, and um, Ireally look back as like that
was the beginning of my whatreally was then like a five-year
menopause journey, not justliterally the hormonal piece of
it, but um but a journey throughthat process of menopause, which
(17:45):
is spiritual and emotional andenergetic and physical all
together.
And my husband said, Great,we're sending you to Spain.
Like you have to go walk, youhave to go do this uh right now.
And I still get goosebumps, likethinking about that and the
amazing person that I share mylife with.
(18:07):
Um, but I went and I walked.
My mother-in-law was going atthe time, and she had said, Oh,
everybody's invited.
We were like, we have kids andjobs, we can't just go do that.
And so I went and I spent daysand days by myself in the woods
walking.
And I really like fell in lovewith it in those first 10
(18:30):
minutes, honestly.
For me, as somebody who loves towalk and who um I just was like,
oh my god, this is amazing.
I am walking and I have mybackpack and I'm just heading to
the next town.
And I showed up mad.
I really like Ryan in thosefirst few days of my very first
(18:53):
Camino, this is in 2019, I justlike marched up and down the
hills.
I was like, I was ruminating andI was just feeling like sorry
for myself and sad and angry.
And after maybe like four hoursof walking on day one, those
(19:13):
feelings started to fade.
And I stopped at the place wewere staying that very first
night, and I read and I washedmy clothes and I got ready for
the next day.
There's this very peacefulrhythm to being on Camino.
I got up the next day and Iwalked and I was like charging
(19:35):
up and down the hills, mad, butit faded faster.
And the same thing happened onday three, and by day four, I
was like, oh, there I am.
Hello, Liz.
Wow, I got all of that out of mysystem, and I had a true like
(19:57):
reconnection moment with myself.
Like, oh, there I am, and I amconnected to myself and I know
myself and I love myself, andthat is what my very first
Camino was for me.
And I have now been back fourtimes for even longer walks and
shorter walks, and both bymyself and with other women in
(20:22):
midlife-ish, and they have allbeen very like transformative
experiences for me.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Wow.
What do you think that angerwas?
What do you think thatfrustration was?
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
I think that I might not have at the time I would
have said I was mad at otherpeople.
I was um leading a largestatewide nonprofit
organization, and I had gottento a moment where I was like,
nope, I disagree.
This is not what I am gonna bepart of.
(21:00):
And I was mad at myself that Icouldn't make it be what I
wanted it to be.
I was mad at the world and allthe systems, and I was, I think
also this like big shift thathappens with menopause, where
we're like, nope, that's notokay, and I'm gonna start saying
(21:25):
no.
And you know, sometimes ourtruth is anger, and it like
needs to move through us so thatwe're not just like holding on
to it.
So in hindsight, I can also seeall of that negative energy as
(21:46):
like some like not trustingmyself, not feeling good about
myself, and also feeling like Icould have done some things
differently.
I not so much a regret, butlike, oh Liz, that was
(22:07):
disappointing.
Like I disappointed myself.
And so in the beginning, thatanger felt very ego-driven, and
in hindsight, it feels more likea new truth coming out of me, if
that makes sense.
Yeah.
It was like now it feels lessego-driven and more like, oh, I
(22:30):
needed to make some changes in awhole variety of ways.
And I chose to do that incertain ways at the time.
And in hindsight, um, those areall good experiences to have
had, but in hindsight, I wouldhave had different, like I have
context for it now, right?
We have that in our life.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah.
When I first met you onCharlotte Albert's networking
call, Connect and Collaborate,shout out to Charlotte for
bringing amazing women togetherevery Wednesday at 11 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time.
And um, so when I first met youand I heard what you do, I was
(23:11):
just like, yes, please, yes,yes, yes, please come on the
podcast.
Speaking of listening, you know,um, and I had no idea what the
Camino de Santiago was, but allI pictured in my head was like
the book Wild, you know, themovie Wild, which I think too
was like the Pacific Crest Trailthat she did.
And it was this big milestonemoment for her life.
(23:34):
I think she had just gonethrough a divorce, like she was
kind of like coming of age.
And I believe Daryl Stray wasmidlife-ish too, right?
Okay, yeah.
And so that's what I pictured.
And, you know, I thought, okay,I haven't had too many rites of
passage in my life.
Like I've had, like, you know,my first, you know, period was
(23:56):
not an event.
It was not celebrated, right?
And so that was a missedopportunity.
And then having children, youknow, that was definitely my
biggest one.
I mean, I remember afterbirthing my first child being
like, my body did that.
I mean, it was just this reallyempowered, uh, like hear me
(24:19):
roar, mama bear.
Like, I can't believe I didthat.
How do I even have the capacityto do that?
And yet I did that.
And, you know, I didn't have tothink about making a baby or
like analyze what she would be.
Like it just happened.
And and it just, oh, it blew mymind.
And so that was really, and thenof course, my my two kids after
(24:43):
two were different rites ofpassage, but the first one,
there's something about thefirst one, you know, the first,
right?
And it's we're talking aboutthat, you know, that different,
that that event in time whereeverything is different after.
And and so that for me was thattime of my first.
And so I just thought that's me.
(25:05):
I'm doing that.
And I don't know when and Idon't know how my kids are still
young, like you're saying, likelogistically right now, probably
not gonna happen.
But as soon as you said it, Iwas like, I'm gonna do that one
day.
I'm gonna do that.
And so I'm gonna do it.
I don't know when.
Um, you know, not this year,maybe not next year, but soon.
And so for somebody who ishearing those whispers, because
(25:26):
now you've led many women,right, along with you in these
walks, for someone who's hearingthose whispers, what would you
say to them embarking on thisfirst like big journey that
feels like a hell yes for them?
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Okay, well, first of all, I love that like the
hearing of the yes, because as Ishared about my first Camino was
12 days and it came out of thatvolcano of a no.
My second Camino, I walked for42 days, and it was this like
delicious, self-affirming yes.
(26:04):
It came from a very differentplace, and it was physically
challenging, it was mentally andemotionally challenging, it was
spiritually challenging for me,and uh yet there's a huge yes in
(26:25):
all of that because it's such agift, and so I would say to you
and to everybody who's like, ohyeah, like I feel a little spark
about that, to just keepaffirming that yes to yourself
and to find the little ways inyour everyday life.
(26:47):
There's maybe like a 1% whereyou're like, I'm gonna daydream
about that for a few minutes.
Oh, I'm gonna watch this movie,I'm gonna read this book, I'm
going to just like look at awebsite where somebody talks
about how they did it.
What is giving you thegoosebumps about it?
(27:08):
And one of the things I talk alot about walking a Camino is
that it can be verytransactional.
You are walking to adestination, it is linear, and
so bringing some like femininecyclical awareness to what is a
very linear counting thekilometers process is very
(27:32):
important.
And so I encourage you to thinkabout um like why this is
meaningful to you and how it islike bringing meaning to this
bucket list experience is what Iam all about.
So we're not just like countingkilometers and getting stamps,
both of which feel very good andare fun.
(27:53):
Um, but how do you make thatopportunity really meaningful?
And so what's your why?
What is your why for why youwant to do it?
And just keep connecting withthat juicy why that is gonna
spur you on because your why isgonna help you with training
(28:14):
because it takes preparation tobe ready to do this.
It's really healthy for yourbody to be ready to walk eight
to 12 miles a day, and knowingyour why is gonna help you when
things feel challenging, eitherphysically or mentally,
(28:36):
spiritually, being connected towhy this is important to you.
So that's what I would encourageeverybody to like feel and think
their way through.
Why?
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Wow.
So I've got tears in my eyes asusual.
And I just realized that thethought of doing this scares the
absolute shit out of me.
And that's why I need to do it.
And I often tell my kids thereare two types of scared.
(29:11):
There's one type of scared oflike, oh, this isn't for me.
I'm, you know, possibly indanger.
This is not a safe situation.
And then there's the other typeof scared that is like, ooh, I'm
really scared, but I'm kind ofnerve-sided.
And this is a challenge that Ineed to overcome, and this is
for me.
And that's how I feel aboutthis.
(29:32):
I've had such an intimaterelationship with terror and
fear since infancy.
I was born into a strugglinghome with struggling parents who
were, you know, perfectlyimperfect.
And that's probably why my soulchose them, right?
And so this fear for me has beenpresent for decades and it comes
(29:53):
up in very inconvenientsituations.
And I'm like, oh my God, notthis again.
And so there's this um lettinggo that needs to take place
where it's like time to go, timeto go, fear, time like your job
here is done.
Like, and so there's this likedancing with that fear and
(30:15):
putting myself in a challengingsituation that feels like needs
to occur.
So there's that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Oh, yes, and thank you for sharing.
I get teary thinking about it aswell, and I get teary hearing
your story because it is so likeit's so you and it's so unique
and so special, and you knowyour why.
And it is also like reallycommon.
(30:45):
We, you know, we um because wedon't often have those ways that
we can safely challengeourselves, and we can shy away
from challenge, we can feellike, oh, that's not for me for
whatever reason.
It's pretty easy to say, oh, Ican't, oh and so when we allow
(31:11):
ourselves to challengeourselves, when we open that up
and we like take that firststep, literally that first step
on Camino, we like that, likethe feeling of trust in yourself
can grow so much.
(31:32):
And you get to know yourself andsee yourself in a new way.
And for me, that is so importantin midlife-ish times because we
maybe have lost ourselves in ourwork, we've maybe lost ourselves
in our family, our identity hasreally become about our doing
and not who we are as a person.
(31:54):
We've lost that connection toourselves.
And on top of that, throughperimenopause and then the
ultimate menopause journey, weare changing so much physically.
We are noticing different thingsabout our body and our brain.
And we it can be very easy tolose connection with who we are.
(32:15):
And so the physical challenge,the mental, emotional, spiritual
challenge that brings us back toourselves at a moment where we
can feel really disconnected isvery potent.
And I think so much can sparkfor women in midlife-ish in
those moments where we're like,oh, this is hard.
(32:38):
Oh, this is challenging me.
And at the end of that, you havea connection and a trust in
yourself where you're just like,oh, I'm so powerful, like give
me, like, I can do anything.
That is how I feel at the end ofa Camino every time.
And that is what I want women tofeel.
That trust and that power andthe joy, and like our heart full
(33:03):
of gratefulness is like such amoment to achieve, but then like
the possibility of carrying thatforward right into the next, the
next camino.
We talk about you, you know,when you walk a camino, you are
getting into Santiago deCompostela and you're getting to
(33:26):
zero kilometer.
You've been counting downwhether you started at 100
kilometers or 500 kilometersout.
You're getting to zerokilometer.
And what I love about thatspace, like literally that place
on earth, but also the spirit ofthe place, is that zero
kilometer is both the ending andthe beginning.
(33:49):
It is the ending, it's yourcelebratory moment.
It is the like, oh my God, I didit.
I am amazing.
And like, look at me.
I did this.
But then it's also zerokilometer for where you go with
that and what's next for you.
Um, I was talking to a friendyesterday who came with me on a
(34:11):
Camino in May when I was leadinggroups of women, and she's like,
Yeah, like I loved it, but I wasso present in my Camino, I
didn't really know what it meantin my life until I got home.
And so that zero kilometer, youcelebrate, and then it's like
launching what is next for you,and that's where I want women
(34:34):
like I that's my experience, andI just want people to feel that
trust and that connection tothemselves to then carry forward
into whatever that is, theirwork, their purpose, their
family, their community, um, tobe to be connected.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Yeah.
In what ways have your walkshelped you be a better mom, a
better wife, a better human?
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah, well, um first a better human in that I think I
am a better human in um likebeing connected to myself, being
uh in touch with myself andhaving a strong relationship
with myself that is positive andsupportive helps me like show up
(35:25):
in the world that way.
So that as I'm interacting topeople and I'm thinking
creatively about what I want todo, that's really important.
Um when I went on my Caminos in2019 and 2022, uh after I came
(35:46):
home, I asked my daughter.
So when I first went, she was insecond grade.
When I went, um, then she was infifth grade.
And so after um, after that tripin 2022, I asked her, like, hmm,
do you how am I different afterCamino?
Like, what do you think?
And do you know what she said?
(36:07):
She said to me, um, it made youless stressed and more at peace
with yourself.
And she said, being a lessstressed and a more self-assured
mom has helped her feel moresecure in herself.
So I will say my daughterchanges.
(36:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Another woman who came with meum this May, she asked her teen
son um when she got home if henoticed any difference in her.
And he was like, Yeah, you'rehappier.
So our kids know us and they seethe change.
Um, I will say that, you know, Ifeel a lot of gratitude for my
(36:55):
husband and daughter forsupporting me to do this work in
the world, to have myexperiences.
And I think every time I comehome full of gratitude, like,
doesn't that make me a greatperson to live with?
And, you know, um, how to showup as a really positive,
supportive wife and mother,because those roles are very
(37:17):
important to me.
My husband and daughter were avery tight-knit little triangle,
you know, in our in our family.
And um they're they're myfavorites.
So I want to be a good human formyself and for the world and
also for them.
Um, I think the other thing Iwill say is that uh the Camino
(37:43):
has given me lots of time tolisten for my purpose and to
have conversations with myselfabout what's important to me and
how I want to bring my purposeout into the world.
So it's an opportunity forcreative thinking because when
we get maybe dysregulated or offour game in our everyday life,
(38:03):
and we're just sort of like,life is full, I'm doing one
thing and then the next thing,the opportunity to rest and
refresh on Camino gives somespace to be creative and to
settle your nervous systembecause you're in nature every
day.
And to because we take such goodcare of you, you have time to
(38:25):
rest and reflect and refresh.
And that gives you like an justliterally an openness in your
brain to creativity and problemsolving and considering in a way
that when we are kind of movingat a higher heart rate all the
(38:48):
time in everyday life, and we'reum not able to have that time
and space or create that forourselves, we can create it on
Camino.
So I think it has helped me umlike launch impactful businesses
and um or like fine-tune likewhat are my ideas?
(39:11):
They, you know, they come to youin a different way than quote
unquote everyday life, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
Yeah.
That is so powerful.
So I heard you say so many ofthe things that people walk away
with are self-trust, an improvedrelationship with your children,
and I'm assuming spouses andother family members, feeling
happier, you know, being a moresupportive and loving presence
(39:38):
for the people under your roof,and then a renewed sense of
purpose.
I mean, and we just it makes methink of like just going through
the motions of everyday life andkind of getting kind of you know
stuck in this little calibrationthat we do.
It's this familiar little rhythmand routine we have going on.
(40:01):
And to pattern interruptinterrupt that, we have to do
something a little drastic,right?
And for some people, it's likegoing to a jungle in Costa Rica
and doing ayahuasca.
For some people, it's a Camino,for some people it's you know,
it's something else, uh, youknow, hiking a mountain.
And I think this just calls tome so much.
(40:21):
And I hope when I'm ready to domy first Camino that you're
still guiding women, because ifyou are, I'm doing it with you,
Liz.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
Um that's wonderful.
I would love to do it with you.
Yeah, I would love that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Yeah, amazing.
So I'm curious if this work youdo in the world now for helping
mothers guide their daughtersinto puberty and through
adolescence.
I wonder if that work came froma renewed sense of clarity from
your Caminos.
(40:53):
Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
It did.
Cool.
Yeah.
Great.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
That helps me bring it full circle then.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
Yes, absolutely.
And um, you know, part of thatwas I knew that my daughter
would be starting her cyclesoon.
Her first period was gonna becoming at some point.
I was in perimenopause.
I knew my cycle was windingdown.
And so I think it was very muchon my mind as I was considering
(41:23):
both who am I, what is mypurpose?
Kind of big questions, and thenalso like literally, what am I
gonna do for my next job?
Like, what do I want to createfor my life?
And how do I want to earn aliving?
And so all of that really cametogether in um the right timing
for me to um want to supportpeople to have like pain-free,
(41:50):
positive relationships withtheir periods from the very
beginning to the very end.
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
Yeah, and that's how raising flora was born.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (41:57):
That's how raising flora was born.
It was like in the woods.
And you know what?
I took a picture of the momentthat it happened, um, where I I
I had a moment.
I was like, oh, okay, this isbig.
And I was um in the woods.
There were birds circling above.
My family will tell you I'mobsessed with the big birds.
(42:19):
I love it when the bald eaglesfly near me here where we live.
And we love birds too.
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Uh we're we're a bird household.
Never thought that would happen.
Never I would never thought Iwould say that one about myself,
but we love birds.
SPEAKER_02 (42:32):
There you go.
Yes.
So I had I had that moment whereI was like, and at the time,
that moment was okay, I'm gonnamake periods normal.
I am gonna make this normal.
This is normal.
And that is where that firstidea started.
And since then, I have, youknow, gone through lots of
learning experiences andcertifications and practices and
(42:54):
teaching and working withpeople, and it has evolved into
what I do now at Raising Flora.
But that first idea happened.
And so now every time on Camino,where somebody will stop me and
say, Liz, I made a decision.
I'm like, oh, let's take apicture.
And then I send people like thisis your decision moment picture.
Do it, you know.
That's just like it's marking ameaningful moment for people.
SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
Yeah.
It's so powerful.
So oh gosh, I'm just likeletting that land because I to
give ourselves that opportunity,like what a gift.
Like, I just like what a gift,what a gift you are, and what a
gift these women who arechoosing to do this are giving
themselves.
(43:40):
And I love it.
So thank you.
Yeah.
I have three kids, two daughterswho are eight and a half and ten
and a half.
We're celebrating half birthdaysnow in our house because we just
don't have enough going on.
So we decided that we would nowcelebrate half birthdays.
So I love it.
(44:00):
Yes.
So they're eight and a half andten and a half, and then I have
a boy too, who's uh three and ahalf.
And um, but with my girls, I'mlike, oh, they're like coming
upon the stage, they're they'regetting ready, you know, as you
know, life goes by very fast andour kids grow up very fast.
And so I'm like, it's gonna behappening tomorrow.
(44:20):
So I just want to ask like somepractical questions, like,
what's the age range that we'regonna be expecting this?
When should we start talkingabout this?
Like, and and I've done myversion of that, but I'd love to
hear you, a professionalperson's opinion.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Okay, so the average age of afirst period is still 12.
Okay, but the range of whenfirst periods start have been
growing.
And so we've started to seeearlier and earlier starts of
first period.
And so it could be nine, 10, um,11.
(45:01):
Um, so I would say that is kindof the time to expect.
The other thing I'll say is thata first period um can come a
little bit later in puberty.
So there are some signs,usually.
This is not, you know, when wetalk about bodies, we talk about
(45:22):
like what is the range ofnormal.
Everybody is not the same.
We all have um, you know,differences about our bodies.
So this is not entirelypredictable, but oftentimes
before a first period comes,girls have pubic hair and
underarm hair.
(45:42):
They have breast buds, which arelike those really kind of hard,
like maybe nickel size um flatlumps under their nipples, um,
and they have a growth spurt.
And so it's not you can usuallyhave some signs that a first
period is coming.
(46:03):
That's not always true.
As I said, everybody isdifferent.
And to your question of when doI start talking about this, is
like anytime, anytime starttalking about it.
And a few things that you canuse to start talking about it is
you can share your own firstperiod story, good, bad, ugly.
(46:26):
You can talk about yourexperience, you can transition
that to talking about your hopesfor your daughter.
You can invite her questions andanswer them or research them
together if you don't know theanswer, or you can come talk to
me about it.
I am always happy to answerpeople's questions.
(46:48):
You can um also share some umbooks.
Sometimes we have kids thatdon't really want to talk to us,
and so offering a book on theirbedside table or just giving
them some resources.
You want to be their go-toperson for all things, period.
(47:09):
And part of that is giving themsome resources.
And then the last thing I'llsay, and I'm happy to share
this, is how to put together afirst period kit because that
can be a great opener to give agift that is like, hey, let's
make sure you're prepared.
So some girls want to talk aboutwhat does this mean in my life?
(47:29):
What is it gonna feel like?
And some girls are maybe likesuper pragmatic.
How do I manage when I'mbleeding?
And I think one of the mostimportant things we can teach
our daughters is that when youare cycling, you are cycling,
you are moving through a cycle.
(47:51):
It's not just the days that webleed, and how do we manage our
period?
It is helping them understand uhtheir body through a cycle.
And so one thing you can do isshare your cycle day, and you
can make that an open thing inyour family or with your
(48:12):
daughters, like, oh, today is mycycle day 15.
This is how I'm feeling.
This is what a cycle day 15 is.
And for everybody, day one isthe first day of your period,
and then you count forward fromthere.
So those are some conversationstarters or some ways to think
about both from a preparingperspective for your daughters,
(48:36):
but also uh preparing you to beopen.
It's a little bit challengingfor some of us who felt like we
kept this very private our wholelives or very secret.
We took our tampon into ourshirt sleeve and all of those
kinds of things.
So I encourage moms to practicesome of this so that we as moms
(48:59):
are also ready for ourdaughter's first period.
It's about getting us ready andgetting our daughters ready, if
that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
Totally.
Oh my gosh, those are sovaluable.
Like those are the that is sohelpful.
Um, because even, you know, I'mlike in love with my cycle.
And I I like over the last likedecade, I'm like, oh, I just
love my cycle.
I love like knowing when uh howI'm gonna feel on a certain day.
(49:29):
And then I was like, you know,starting to feel irregular.
And I'm like, oh my God,paramenopause, what?
No, I just fell in love withyou, cycle.
And so I'm I'm starting togrieve that, you know, it will
be different and you know, itone day I won't have it.
And I never really consideredthat.
I never really like thought, oh,one day I won't have my period.
(49:52):
I never just like contemplatedthat.
So my question is, are periodssporadic when they first start?
Because I don't remember.
I started my first, I had myfirst period when I was 12, I'm
pretty sure.
And I'm think I'm rememberingthat they were sporadic and they
were a little hard.
I don't, I didn't track them,but I feel like they were
(50:14):
unpredictable.
Is that true?
It is true.
Okay.
So just like perimenopause, it'sthis transitionary period,
right?
Yes.
No pun intent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (50:23):
Yeah.
Like think about puberty andperimenopause or uh yeah, think
about them as mirror images ofeach other.
One cycle is ramping up and onecycle is ramping down.
And again, bodies are different,but they don't often go from
zero to 60 or 60 to zero all atonce.
There's a process that ishappening.
(50:45):
And so sometimes for ourdaughters, um, their cycle can
be irregular in the beginning.
It might be 19 days, it might be40 days, it might be 22 days or
28 days.
It can be really helpful to justhelp them track that because um
(51:05):
our period is the result of anovulation.
Ovulation is actually the mainevent, and it is a vital sign of
health.
And so helping our girlsunderstand their cycle as part
of a whole healthy body systemcan be really valuable.
SPEAKER_01 (51:25):
And so ovulating before they get their first
period, right?
I mean, that's like, wow, youovulated.
You had like, and what I've beentelling them is like, you know,
you can have babies when you getyour cycle.
But I feel like that's such awatered down, like health class
way to say it.
Like, you know what I mean?
And so I'm like, and I want itto be this celebration.
(51:47):
Sorry to interject, but I wantit to be this like celebration
and this like, whoa, this isamazing.
Look at your body.
You said it's a sign of health,like how vibrant and brilliant
our bodies are, right?
SPEAKER_02 (51:59):
Yes, absolutely.
Because it takes the rightcombination of hormones rising
and falling at the right momentsto make ovulation happen.
And so when ovulation happens,we know that the systems in our
body are working.
That's why it's so valuablebecause our primary reproductive
(52:21):
hormones, estrogen andprogesterone, work together to
impact our whole body.
Our brains need estrogen andprogesterone, not just our
ovaries, our bones, our breasts,our um for our mental
well-being, for our bloodvessels, need those reproductive
(52:42):
hormones to rise and fall witheach other in concert in order
to maintain healthy systemsthroughout our body.
So, yes, it means that we havean opportunity to get pregnant.
It is, you know, some girls andyou know yourself and your
daughters best.
I will say that to everybodyover and over again.
(53:05):
There is like magic in creatinglife.
And if we can talk to our younggirls about knowing their body,
about understanding that theyare changing every day of their
cycle and loving themselvesthrough every season of their
(53:25):
cycle, that is an incrediblyvaluable place to start that is
less about now you can makebabies and like, oh, be careful
because now you can make babies.
Because those conversations arealso very important.
But for our 10-year-olds, thepiece about making babies is
(53:45):
maybe further down the line,right?
Or about all of their choices.
We don't necessarily start withpregnancy with our youngest
girls, right?
But giving them the opportunityto say, oh, my cycle can support
me in my life.
Oh, um, pain is common, but notnormal.
If you're having pain, let'ssolve those problems.
(54:09):
Ovulation is a vital sign ofhealth.
Your whole body needs yourreproductive hormones.
And when you're ovulating andhaving a period, it tells us
that your body is healthy.
And how cool is that to knowyour body?
So different angles fordifferent kids and different
moms for how you might approachintroducing this or supporting
(54:31):
your daughters through theircycles.
And yes, irregularity is part ofthat, and um, kind of the some
sense of humor and patience andgrace with leaks and you know,
needing to wash bedsheetsbecause who among us has not had
to do that, right?
Normalizing all of that andnormalizing that yeah, they're
(54:54):
gonna have some short and somelong.
It can take up to 10 years tofor a cycle to settle into what
is gonna become their regularcycle.
Wow.
Yeah.
Sometimes that happens as soonas a couple of years, and
sometimes it takes longer.
SPEAKER_01 (55:09):
Okay.
So you just your work in theworld, just thank you from the
bottom of my heart.
And I want to tell everybodywhere they can find you, follow
you, connect with you, and learnmore from you because I know
people are gonna want to hearmore.
SPEAKER_02 (55:26):
Yeah, I'm happy to share.
So um, you can find me atraisingflora.com where I have
free resources.
You can join my mailing listthere.
You can book a free call with meif you want to hop on a
20-minute phone call or Zoom andjust ask questions like what
Ryan has been asking right now.
(55:48):
You can also book a longerconsult as well.
Um, I do some social media.
So um on Instagram atraisingflora, there are again
great resources aboutapproaching first periods and
how to make that a healthypositive experience.
(56:08):
And then you can also find me atfloraonfoot.com where you can
read all about my Caminos forwomen in midlife-ish.
Um, and I have spots open for2026 Caminos.
So come have a chat with meabout that.
I will chat about periods andCaminos all day long.
SPEAKER_01 (56:29):
I love it.
Two seemingly very differentthings that are, again, like it
just makes sense.
Like it just what you have donewith your purpose and with your
work in the world is soadmirable.
And I, you know, I love that.
And I love it as an example forme.
I love it as an example for thewomen who are listening right
now, that you can bemultipassionate, you can have
(56:51):
these different interests inyour life, and ultimately there
is a connection betweeneverything that your heart is
feeling called for.
So thank you for being just aridiculously amazing example for
that.
And um, this might be one of myfavorite conversations ever,
Liz.
I just love it so much.
(57:12):
But as we wrap up, because it'sthat time, I'm gonna ask you now
the three kind of rapid firequestions that I ask everybody
at the end of the interview.
And the first one is what'sbringing you joy today?
SPEAKER_02 (57:23):
Water.
Mmm.
Um just I have a goal to drinkmore water.
Yeah.
And so I have been um, yeah, Ilove my water bottle and like my
intentionality to get water inme.
Water bringing me joy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (57:40):
Simplicity.
Amazing.
Totally.
I love it.
What if anything are youreading?
SPEAKER_02 (57:47):
Oh, I'm reading a spy novel and I cannot remember
the name of it, and that'sprobably not significant at this
point, but I have been um likeI'm really into fiction these
days, and I do love a good spynovel.
SPEAKER_01 (58:05):
Okay, cool.
And then the last question Ihave for you is who or what has
taught you the most?
SPEAKER_02 (58:12):
Oh wow.
Okay.
I don't know if I can do thatone rapid fire, but um, I mean,
my husband and daughter come tomind as people who have taught
me the most about both like theperson I want to be, but also
really concrete things abouttrying things in life.
(58:34):
One of our family values isadventure, and sometimes that is
learning to eat asparagus, andsometimes that is walking a
camino.
And those things really comefrom my my family, my husband
and my daughter.
And you know, I've taught myselfa lot.
SPEAKER_01 (58:54):
Beautiful.
Yeah, so thank you so much forbeing here.
SPEAKER_02 (58:59):
Thank you so much.
This I love this conversationtoo!
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.