Fostering Family Connections and Resilience Through Outdoor Education with Kristi Bryant

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What does it take to create meaningful outdoor experiences for families? Join us as we sit down with Kristi Bryant, passionate outdoor and environmental educator behind Bushwalking Mama. Kristi opens up about her journey in documenting and inspiring family-friendly outdoor activities, and the innovative methods she employs to integrate play and connection into outdoor learning. 

In this episode, we spotlight the significance of autonomy and personal choice in outdoor activities. Kristi emphasises the need for positive relationships and accommodating individual needs to foster a genuine connection with nature. We discuss the delicate balance between encouraging participation and respecting personal boundaries, ensuring everyone feels comfortable and respected in their outdoor educational adventures. Kristi's approach underscores the importance of gradual steps and listening to individual concerns, creating a supportive environment conducive to learning and growth.

We also explore the transformative power of outdoor education in building resilience and overcoming fears. Kristi shares personal experiences and the challenges of starting a business in the nature play industry, from risk assessments to insurance hurdles. 

Tune in for an inspiring episode that champions the resilience, collaboration, and passion at the heart of outdoor education and nature play.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
In today's episode we're chatting with Christy
Bryant, outdoor andenvironmental education teacher
from Bushwalking Mama.
Christy has spent the last 25years guiding and engaging with
people in remote and residentialenvironments.
Her vision for Bushwalking Mamais to create spaces and
opportunities for engagementwith nature and connection to
country, with a focus on nature,play for all ages, bushcraft,

(00:23):
creative workshops and women'sspace connections.
We'd like to acknowledge thetraditional custodians of the
land on which we record todaythe Kabi Kabi and Gubbi Gubbi
people.
We recognise their continuedconnection to the land and
waters of this beautiful place.
We recognise Aboriginal peopleas the original custodians of

(00:44):
this land and acknowledge thatthey have never ceded
sovereignty.
We respect all Gubbi Gubbielders, ancestors and emerging
elders and all First Nationspeople listening today.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative education, stepping into the wilderness,
however that looks, with yourfamily.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly
inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
We're your hosts.
Vicki and Nikki from WildlingsForest School, Pop in your
headphones, settle in and joinus on this next adventure.
Hello and welcome to theRaising Wildlings Forest School.
Pop in your headphones, settlein and join us on this next
adventure.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Hello and welcome to the Raising Wildlings podcast.
I'm your host, Nikki Farrell.
Good morning, Christy.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
How are you on this?
Well, it's beautiful and fineand blue sky here.
How is it there and where areyou?
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
First of all, thank you so much for having me.
It's great to finally meet youon the platform that we're on.
I'm in Cooma, I'm on Narragocountry, and it is beautiful and
sunny, even though, at whatevertime it is now, it is still
frosty.
There's still a good layer offrost on the ground.

(02:03):
So we've been living here forabout nine weeks now and still
getting used to the weather, butreally trying to lean into it
and get to know it.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I feel cold just thinking about it.
We've had the fire crankinghere four weeks.
I think the low is, you know,not even 10 degrees.
We might have hit single digitssomewhere, but I've definitely
not seen a frost yet.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah Well, before I moved here, I mean, I grew up in
a cold climate, but for thelast 20 years I've been in quite
a warm one, and if it everdipped below 20 degrees Celsius
I was definitely wearing ajumper.
And now I'm finding myselfoutside at.
You know, it's top of eightdegrees.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'm like oh it's not too bad oh great Acclimatizing
fast Waking the washing out.
And hope it dries in 12 hourstime.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
All right, let's get started by having you tell us
all about your journey indeciding to start Bushwalking,
mama.
So talk to us about whereyou've come from and why now.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
So Bushwalking Mama actually started a good maybe 10
years ago and just started as arecord of the things that we
were doing.
You know Instagram was big andjust thought I'd record the
things that we were doing.
You know Instagram was big andjust thought I'd record the
things that we were doing as afamily outside and had a blog

(03:30):
going a WordPress blog and justwanted to share some ideas for
people.
I've been in outdoor educationforever, since a whole different
century, since 1990.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Way to make us feel old.
Thanks, Christy.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
And you know, just in conversations with people I was
seeing people not reluctant butmaybe just a bit fearful about
getting outside with the kidsand not knowing how to do things
.
So I started just bloggingthings that were happening, that
we were doing with our familyand in the meantime I was
working in outdoor education inprimary schools, in high schools

(04:13):
, as a teacher and taking peopleoutside and just it's a great
classroom.
I love being outdoors and it'seven when I was working in the
classroom in schools most of ourtime would be spent outdoors
and you know there are so manyways that you can take any

(04:34):
subject, any criteria, anythingoutside and do it outside.
And I noticed that our classeswere easier outside.
They were students were moreengaged, more likely to lean
into activities that we weredoing.
It was more, it was easier tomake activities engaging when I

(04:56):
was outside.
But I think it's because that'smy comfort zone, you know.
I know that I feel good outsideand I feel contained when I'm
in a classroom.
So taking kids outside was agood way for us to share
learning, I guess is the bestway to put it.
Most recently I've been working,or I was working, in an outdoor

(05:17):
education centre.
It was a private school.
They have their own outdooreducation centre and the
students would come up yearly sothey'd spend a week with us and
after COVID we were noticingthat the kids were actually
pretty.
The students were actuallypretty fearful and anxious and
nervous not only about beingaway from home and being outside

(05:38):
, but just about trying newactivities.
About trying new activities andthey were anxious in their
social connections and aboutjust even taking the steps to
start a new activity.
And I had a pretty amazing andwonderful head of department and
we had a conversation aboutjust introducing connection, so

(06:04):
making the camps aboutconnection, but also just
introducing a whole heap of playand making sure I don't call it
free play, because all playshould be free, but you
shouldn't have to earn it or payfor it, it's just play right?
Yes, and we noticed that whenthere was playtime and we made
sure that there was you know,our hope was to have four or

(06:26):
five hours of play, nice, soit's not like 20 minutes,
because you can't.
It takes a while to warm up intoplay.
You can't actually engage anddisconnect from what you've been
doing and engage in the play.
Without a good time, you know,frame to be able to do that in,
but we were noticing that wewere getting less people you
know frame to be able to do thatin, but we were noticing that
we were getting less people youknow less people saying no to

(06:48):
trying the ropes course, forinstance, because it was never
you need to get up on that ropescourse.
It was hey, here's a ropescourse, do you want to try it?
And people would say, no, I'mnot doing that, and we'd say,
okay, well, you know, maybewatch it engage in other ways.
Um, but when we introduced theplay, the numbers of rejection

(07:08):
of new activities went down.
Wow, and it was kind of justvalidation for all of the
research that we were banking onto say that if we practice play
, we can be more forgiving ofour own mistakes and so we
become less fearful of makingmistakes and so we are ready to

(07:30):
engage in new learningexperiences.
Yes, that's my most recentemployment.
And then we had a big familyshift.
We moved from the place thatwe'd been living in for
20-something years and we'vemoved to a new area and thought

(07:50):
this is actually a goodopportunity to maybe make
Bushwalking Mama into somethingthat is a culmination of
everything that I've learnt overthe last 25 years.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
And bring something into a space and create
something, and invent something,that play with something that
is, you know, of benefit to notonly kids but to, hopefully,
teens and adults as well.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So, um, the plans are to, because play shouldn't just
be for little kids we know allthe benefits for children um,
I'm not sure why we stop can youdelve into that a bit more for
me, because I'm a, you know, I'man ex-high school teacher too,
and teens are my passion.
Why is it so important, youknow, and why do we forget about

(08:46):
them?

Speaker 3 (08:47):
I'm not sure that it's that we forget.
I think it's, I think it'scultural.
I don't even know thateverybody who persists with the
culture even believes in it.
You know, I don't.
I don't know too many teachersthat say, hey, this, this

(09:11):
system's working really well forus, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
For everyone doesn't it?
As a fellow teacher, when youask around and go is this, do
you think this is the best model?
And not a single teacher goes100%.
This is it 100%?
Believe in it.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Not one.
Yeah, you know it's.
I don't know why we forgetabout it.
I think it's.
I think it's that at some stagewe learn that the making
mistakes is wrong, and so wereally push with the getting it

(09:50):
right, which kind of brings usmore into being taught things
rather than learning things.
And so if we're being taughtthings, then we don't leave room
for play, because we need toget something that someone has
taught us right.
So we stop with the playing andwe start with what we think is

(10:13):
learning.
But you know, we start with thebeing taught things and
sometimes we miss out on the,sometimes we miss out on the
autonomy of being able to directour own learning, and so then
you know, it just drops off, thepriority drops off, and so it's

(10:34):
like trying to run before youcan walk.
If we miss a big step of it,it's really difficult to then
launch back into it.
My experience was that when wetold our students that they had
playtime, a few of them kind oflooked at me and just went what

(10:54):
Was that particularly for?

Speaker 1 (10:55):
teenagers what do we?

Speaker 3 (10:57):
do?
Yeah, absolutely that.
Grade five onward is just thewell, we're not kids.
Of course you are.
Yeah, and this is it.
Grade five isward is just thewell, we're not kids.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Of course you are, yeah and this is it Grade five
is still so young, like in theNordic kind of system you're
barely actually being put intothe academic system by that age.
Like when did we stop givingchildren permission to you know
again, not free play, but play?
And when you said five hoursbefore I went, wow, how many

(11:26):
teenagers would have been givenfive hours, like permission to
just play for five hours withoutit being, you know, organised
sport, or you know you're at abirthday party, so you're at a
time zone, or laser tag or how,and they probably don't think
about it when they're at thebeach.
So probably going to the beachand hanging out at the beach is

(11:47):
probably the closest they get tothings like five hours of play.
And how sad is that.
It's no wonder they'veforgotten how to connect with
themselves and connect withnature and connect with their
own ways of learning too.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, that's it.
You know it's a bit like ridinga bike and you can warm up to
doing it again, but the thoughtof getting on that bike can be
pretty scary.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I like that analogy.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Initially, you know, we'd have students coming up and
going well, what do I do?
And we'd say, well, we've givenyou all of these options.
So, so, because we had optionsand we had guided options,
because, you know, they didn'tknow what they were doing when
they had to come away, but thenby the end of their time with us
, they were able to just go outand do whatever they'd found

(12:36):
most interesting to them.
So, yeah, it was, it was prettygood and it was outdoors,
everything was outdoors.
So, unless, unless and I reallywant to stipulate this unless
they needed a break from beingoutdoors, because not
everybody's into the outdoors,you know, you don't have to be
an outdoors person so we have,you know, arts and crafts and,

(12:58):
um lego.
Oh, there's nothing lego can'tdo.
I love, love Lego.
A lot of you know texturalstuff, board games, card games,
things like that.
So it's still play, it's stillcommunal, it's still active and
engaging and an option to justsit and do absolutely nothing,

(13:20):
rest is important.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I want to touch on that a bit more because I
thousand percent agree with youthat you don't need to be
gung-ho outdoorsy and you don'teven need to love or even like
the outdoors, and gettingoutside in nature is really
important.
So how do we encourage peopleto get their vitamin D, their
fresh air?
You know, exercise, sure, go tothe gym.

(13:44):
You can do it indoors, indoorsoccer, whatnot.
You do still need sunlight.
How do we get those that?
And why do they not like it?
Is it fear generally, do youfind, or is it just not
interesting, which is cool andfair enough?
But again, how do we get themto connect to nature when we're

(14:08):
not gung-ho outdoorsy?

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Sure, and I'm not sure that should always be our
aim either.
I think, consent plays a reallybig part in getting outside and
I think being able to make yourown decision on being outside is
the best.
Maybe not the best, but it'sthe way that I feel most

(14:31):
comfortable.
Encouraging people to beoutside is to take ownership of
when they spend that timeoutside.
So if it is, you know going andsitting on the veranda and you
know you know going and sittingon the veranda and you know
reading or Resting, takingresting or taking a device or
whatever it is, you know ifyou're going outside and that's

(14:53):
your comfort zone, then that'swhat gets you outside.
You know it's.
I don't throwing it.
I would worry that throwingsomeone in the deep end of a
situation that they're notcomfortable in removes their
consent.
It removes their ability toidentify any risks that are

(15:16):
there because they're blinded byit.
It's not their choice, yeah, soI don't think that's an
encouraging way to get peopleoutside.
So I think it's just givingownership.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, which to me comes back to which I love,
because you know we are allabout autonomy here.
It's because, again, it's gotto be a totally, very
intrinsically motivated.
You force people to do it.
You know, if you force me to gooutside, I would eventually
hate it too.
So, but I think what I'mhearing from you then is it's

(15:54):
maybe relationships as well, andmaybe sometimes in in some
institutions don't want to usethat word.
What's another word?
In some of the places that wedo take students outdoors and
children outdoors, in some ofthe places that we do take
students outdoors and childrenoutdoors, they are forced
outdoors.
I'm thinking of myself as anex-PE teacher.
You know, when one girl had aperiod, four weeks in a row, and
I had to be eventually like shedidn't.

(16:17):
She just didn't want to do PE.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I'm just taking that on face value going.
Oh my goodness, she must havebeen so uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
I know, and eventually I just said to her I
said you can just be reallyhonest with me and just tell me
why you don't want to be hereand why you don't want to.
You know what you don't like.
And she's like, oh, you knowshe was feeling body shamed, so
that was a whole thing we neededto unravel.
You know, there was a wholething so.
So but we were forcing her.
You know, you have to, you haveto, you have to, you have to to

(16:48):
the point that she had to lieabout a medical condition to get
out of it.
So I can agree with you.
So how do you go about buildingpositive relationships that not
encourage because again, Idon't want to force people
outside but to connect with, tohelp them find that connection
with nature?

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I think building a relationship with
nature is a bit like building arelationship with a person or
anything else.
You know it's step by step,sometimes Not everybody's going
to launch straight into it.
You might need accommodationsor support or a different kind
of experience.
You know, I don't want to domud play today because I don't

(17:29):
like the way my hands get wet, Idon't like the feeling of the
squishiness.
I don't want to be barefootbecause I don't like my feet
uncovered and you know I'mworried that I'm going to get
bitten.
Or the grass is scrunchy and Idon't want to put my feet on it,
or my feet are really cold andI want to have my shoes on,
please, if it is an outdooractivity, and we know that it is

(17:52):
important to get outside.
So even just listening andasking what would make you feel
more comfortable, becausethere's a lot of things that I
don't like doing, but on anintellectual level I know
they're good for me.
So sometimes I makeaccommodations to make it more
comfortable for me.

(18:12):
Yeah, you know I don't enjoyeating cauliflower, for instance
, but I know that I canaccommodate that by doing
something cooking it differentlyor seasoning it or hiding it in
something.
Exactly, cheese solveseverything.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Just reminded me of again.
You know, back in the justabout previous century, I was
working in an outdoor rec centretoo and I was just thinking of
the gaps we sometimes have whereprograms aren't as accessible
and the privileges we probablyhave sometimes that we don't
even realise we have.
We had a Pidginjara mob comefrom up north down to the ocean.

(18:56):
The only thing they could bookwith us was kayaking or sailing,
and yet not one of thosestudents had ever seen the ocean
, you know.
So we got there and we're like,oh, great to have you here.
You know, let's get in thekayak.
And they were just like getstuffed.

(19:16):
Like, are you kidding, I'm notgetting in that rocky boat?
Out deep I can't swim.
So we spent the morning justgoing up to our knees and
frolicking and playing and thejoy on their faces and I just
think, oh wow, that was a biggap, a big gap in our
programming.
And again, like things having tobe structured, you can only

(19:37):
book in for this.
You can't just book in to comehere and use the resources
however you please as well.
Like you said, giving them thatchoice to play then would have
been the best thing we couldhave done for that group at that
time.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, oh for sure, and you know the fact that you
were able to accommodate thatand just go into your knees.
But you know that's fantastic,you know, and that's an
introduction and that's anexperience and it's turned into
a positive one which you know ifyou're more likely to want to
engage with it again, if theexperience has been positive and

(20:13):
you know it's we know thebenefits for us, we know the
benefits for the planet ofpeople engaging with nature.
Every positive experience is astep towards just building that
depth of relationship.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah.
So here's your permission,parents, that if it's your
children are out on the verandawith your device, it's still.
You're still like cause, youare nature and I think that's
the thing we always forget.
You're not, you're notconnecting with nature, You're,
you're reconnecting with yournature because you are nature,
and sometimes that is justgetting sun on your face on the
veranda on your device.

(20:47):
That's okay, it's just, it'sall good.
It doesn't matter how it comes,it's all good.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
And I think it helps if we think about our own
comfort levels.
You know I've been in theoutdoors for decades, but if
it's cold, windy and rainy I'mnot going to like talking about
it now.
I can't pretend that I'm stokedabout it.
You know, I'm out in it andwhinging about it's not going to
make a difference to theweather.
The weather's not going to careand I'm going to get through it

(21:14):
.
But it's because I have thatexperience, you know, I have
that behind me anyway.
I'm able to reflect and engageand regulate myself and I have
strategies for that regulation.
But if it's my first timeoutdoors or I'm on my first
experience and it ends up beingcold and windy and rainy man,

(21:38):
I'm going to be scared.
I didn't always love theoutdoors.
On my year 10 camp at my ownschool, we had a 24-hour solo
and we were given a tarp andsome rope and you know things to
light a fire with and I didn'tlove it.
I didn't love it at all.

(21:59):
Most adults wouldn't love that.
No, I wrapped myself up in mytarp and I cried Like I didn't
even set it up.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
But you wouldn't have been the only one that did that
either, because that's anextreme.
Like you said, we're pluckingthese teenagers from their four
walls and their perfectly heated, perfectly comfortable houses
to then go off.
You go, good luck.
That's a big gap there.
That's a huge gap, huge gap,huge gap.

(22:30):
No wonder they come out hatingit.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
We're going to get you to jump off this pole, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Even though you hate heights, and just hope that you
trust.
Yeah, yeah, it's wild, isn't it?
Yeah, just trust.
Just trust me, it is who you've.
Yeah, yeah, it's wild, isn't it?
Yeah, just trust, just trust mewho you've met today your
outdoor ed leader, who hasn'tbeen working with you all year.
I'm the new face, but it's fine.
I've checked these ropes.
You're good.
The sane.
Sane students are the ones thatare like no thanks.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
But at the same time, teenagers, you know really you
need to get your head aroundconsent and that no means no,
and you know you need to listento how people are feeling.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
And you know, don't succumb to peer pressure.
But I'm going to sit here andgo.
You can do it.
Come on, it's not that bad.
I'm going to gaslight you thewhole way.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, come on Watch your mate, he's doing it.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oh my god.
I do know that outdoor edpractices have changed
significantly in the last 20years, which is great.
They have and they have, andyet we can always improve.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
We can and look.
I'm not suggesting, I am notsuggesting in any way that
that's what outdoor ed programsare like now no me almost every
outdoor educator that I have metand environmental educator that
I've met.
They have a really, really goodawareness and, um, I don't even

(24:01):
want to say acceptance.
It's just being a decent humantowards people, isn't it?
You know, it's just.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
I actually think and I'm probably biased because I am
an ex one, but I do thinkoutdoor educators have an
additional or more practice incoaching particularly teenagers
through hard moments without thegaslighting and validating
emotions, because you can't getsomeone up a pole without

(24:31):
validating their fears.
You just can't, you know, and Ijust think the outdoor ed
teachers are amazing.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
We can't get someone through the day without
validating their fears.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
No, yeah, so to feel that there is an additional
skill they acquire mainlythrough experience.
I don't think it's actuallyexplicitly taught anywhere with
that relationship connecting,and it's not just the
experiences which, yes, you knowmaybe there's some trauma
bonding over the high, highropes course and pole no joking,

(25:01):
but you know there is a levelof relationship building.
I think that helps.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah, anyway, that was a side yeah, and I think
it's a I mean it's.
It's a privilege about directteachers, though, as well, is
that they do actually get thatextra time.
There is time, and it'ssomething that's not present in
a lot of classrooms.
It's you know and it's notgraded, You're not assessing

(25:31):
you're not ticking on a box tosay that you got your.
You know 82% of your studentsabove this level that you know
16 out of 20 have been able toshow that they can wash dishes
correctly or mediateconversation.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh, you just nailed it, Chrissy.
You get to fail and not begraded on that failure.
So you get to try and you cantry and try and try and try
again.
That's the other thing.
If you don't make the polltoday, you can go tomorrow or
you can have three goes todayuntil you get it, Whereas if you
do the maths test, that's it.
You know not in high school,you don't get another chance to
do that and then you move on aswell.

(26:09):
You don't get to go back andconsolidate your learning.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
It's just no, you just move on to the next, you
just scale up.
You don't get to consolidatethose skills, you just scale up,
okay next topic.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I want to bring up that failure because I had a
conversation with a hugecorporation this week about
their motto is fail fast, and Ijust think maybe that's where
outdoor ed, nature, play,whatever you want to call us.
That's why children feel safein these programs is because

(26:44):
they are allowed to fail withoutbeing graded.
They can fail fast, they canmove on, they can go backwards,
they can consolidate theirlearning.
There's no repercussions at allfor failing.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Well, I think in those situations there are
repercussions, but they're notnegative.
If you fail, there's usuallysomeone there who can say oh, I
tried it this way, or you know,here's something that might help
, or you know, do you need help?

(27:22):
Or you're doing great, orhere's some encouragement, or
I've failed before too.
This is really hard, this istricky.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know, this is tricky yeah, you know, should we
work together on this?

Speaker 3 (27:34):
yeah, let's make version two yeah, yeah, um, or
do we want to take a break?

Speaker 1 (27:42):
yeah, do we?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
want to not be doing this right now.
You know if, if this is reallytricky for us right now, maybe,
maybe we move on to somethingdifferent there's.
We're not.
We're not disregarding it,we're just giving ourselves
space from it.
And allowing ourselves toregulate again again, yeah, and

(28:10):
we're building our resilienceand I know that resilience is a
bit of a catch phrase at themoment, but in a true sense
we're actually building ourresilience and our ability to
try again.
But we're also building ourrisk competency.
We're building our what do Iwant to try again and what don't
I want to try again?
What is a risk worth taking andwhat isn't worth taking?
Who can I turn to if I havemade a mistake?

(28:31):
What supports will I be offered?
So you know, I love the failingfast thing, because if we're
willing to fail fast, it'sbecause we know we've got a
landing, because failing isn'tfalling, but if it were, it's
good to know that we've got alanding, a safe one, or that a

(28:55):
safe one, or the level of safetythat we're going to have with
that risk and if we can practiceour risk-taking and practice
the judgment of our landing then, you know that that helps us
with.
You know we take small I don'twant to say smaller risks,

(29:16):
because there's big learning,but we the consequences of the
risk that we take when we'reyounger with good support, um
might not be as extreme as someof the risks that we take when
we're younger with good support,might not be as extreme as some
of the risks that we take whenwe're older and we have access
to all sorts of different otherrisk taking avenues.
So having that practice andknowing what our landing is

(29:39):
going to be like is reallyimportant.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
I want to backtrack a littlebit here.
So Bushwalking Mama is quitenew, and you've mentioned your
vision for Nature Play for All.
What I want to ask you is whatmade you take the leap?
Because one of the reasons Igot you on was because you're
articulate, you're intelligent,you can, you know, I can tell

(30:06):
your experience as well, butyou're very new.
So what made you take the leap?
And in my head, you're acompetent person who I think
could work this out.
Might take time, but you couldwork it out.
So why did you take the leapand purchase Wild Business?
Our course.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, so glad we get to talk about it.
I was introduced to it a coupleof years ago actually, and a
friend of mine actually said youshould look into this, and I
wasn't in a position at thatstage to do it.
At that stage and for whateverreason, it just wasn't the right

(30:47):
time.
And when we made our move and Ikeep getting this image of the
word disconnect when wedisconnected and it was a new
start, I started to think aboutwhat I was going to be doing and
I thought I want to startBushwalking, mama Up, and not
only for nature play, but forhiking and for camping and for

(31:10):
holding women's space andsupport networks, creating a
space for support networks forwomen who want to do more
outdoors.
And I thought I don't think Ican do this by myself.
And it's not a lack ofconfidence, it's actually a
recognition of I'm the person.

(31:33):
You know this is me.
I have, you know, I have myhusband.
He's amazing, he's verysupportive, he loves it, he's
right behind it, he's had acareer in outdoor education as
well, and so he's all across.
You know, I've got someone tocheck over all my risk
management and assessment andall of that kind of stuff as
well.
But I just I had a look at your.

(31:57):
Is it the Nature Play?
There's like a Nature Play nowit's a bit like a taster.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's ataster.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
That's exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, and I went this is good resource.
I like this resource and youknow I've been a teacher for a
long time and I create resourcesand I just went this is good.
So it gave me the confidence toknow that the business course

(32:29):
was going to be good.
And I've followed you and Vickyand what you do and I really,
really love what you do withcommunity and space and the
values that you drive yourbusiness with, and not just your

(32:50):
activities but your business.
You know, um their, their greatcommunity and connection values,
and so I thought, okay, well,the resources are good.
I feel like our values arealigned, so I have no business
experience before this.

(33:12):
I need help.
Why not?
This is a good time.
What can I lose?
I love that.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
I love that, besides the warm fuzzies I just got
there, oh, thank you.
It's still that leap, though,and, I think, a leaving your
secure job and I mean you'removing as well, so you've had
some huge life changes.

(33:42):
Oh, huge man, I think what, Ithink you know, the.
What have you got to lose?
That's that's the crux of thequestion for me, so is it that
you are prepared to fail and notsee failure as a failure, or
what is it?
Because I, the I, I know Icould name 50 other people that
would love to do this, and someof it's financial, and that's

(34:04):
totally, I 100% understand it.
I reckon 80% of it, though, isjust not being ready to take the
leap, and I just cannot nailwhat it is stopping people other
than finances.
What is it?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Well, other than what was stopping me, because, um,
that's for probably my therapist, but um what started?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
me.
That's a really valid point,though, isn't it like I want to
touch?

Speaker 3 (34:36):
on that.
It's all in, yeah, but what?
What started me and what gaveme the push was probably just
how many years have I askedsomeone and you gave the example
before of a ropes course what'sthe worst that could happen?

Speaker 1 (34:57):
A bit different on a ropes course.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Maybe, maybe yes, maybe no, you know on a ropes
course.
We mitigate and manage riskyeah in business we mitigate and
manage risk 100.
It's a different, I guess,category of risk, but it's it's
still risk.
So if I've spent 25 yearsencouraging people to be

(35:25):
comfortable taking risks, maybethere's a lesson in there for me
somewhere.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
And A yay for therapy , because I do think that, you
know, looking at this from alens of we've had, you know, say
, 100-ish people purchase thecourse, I would say at least 50%
have gone through and startedtheir own business.
There's a percentage of peoplethat, for whatever reason,

(35:54):
haven't got it up and runningyet and again, often this isn't
for want, it is.
You know, I've just had a baby,I've just moved house, ill
family member.
Absolutely so it's not theconfidence, yeah, but yeah, I
think sometimes therapy is theanswer, because I know, speaking
to all of these people, I'mlike you are again, intelligent,

(36:16):
you are articulate, you havethe experience, you have the
passion and the drive.
I can teach you everything else, like we can teach you anything
else you need to know, becauseI know you're teachable.
So the only thing missing isthat confidence, which I
actually sometimes think istherapy.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
So I'm here to champion for therapy and but do
you know what, like you givethat in the course?
You know the first module isall about.
You know, dealing with impostersyndrome and you know, knowing
that you're worth it and knowingthat you know you've made this
decision because you'vecalculated it and you can back

(36:58):
your decision.
It's not you know you'vealready bought the course.
It's not.
It's not like you know you'vealready bought the course.
It's not like you're saying youshould do this now.
If it was about selling productthen you wouldn't have included
it.
But it's really clear becausethe very first module it's not
even hey, you've got to come upwith a business name.
Your very first module is hey,you're awesome and you can do

(37:24):
this and you're worth it andyou've got a vision.
That's why you've signed up andvalidating all of the reasons
why people sign up, and I thinkit's really important to have
that because it's a step tostart something new.
And it was one of the like whenI was going through the module,

(37:45):
because I'm working through theworksheet like a good student
and it's.
I've done a lot of courses andsome of them I've had moments
where I've gone oh man, I don'tknow, I don't know if I can do
this, I don't know if I canfinish this.
You seems too hard andeverybody seems to be doing it

(38:06):
better and there's a competitionand it's the competition.
When that gets in there, youstart going oh man, well, if I'm
not going to be the best, thenwhat's the point?
If you're not first, you'relast.
So who knows why am I doing it?
But I thought it would be greatif everything, if every uni

(38:29):
course or every subject or everywhatever it was that you
engaged in where it was taking achance and taking a risk, there
was a reminder there at stagesthat said okay, if you're
feeling wobbly or if you'refeeling like this is hard,
that's because you're beingchallenged and because it is
hard.
If it's feeling difficult, it'sbecause it is Like this is

(38:52):
difficult.
But you know, like one of oh mygosh I don't know if you've
come across Mind Bubbles yet no,and she's a oh my gosh, gosh,
please check it out.
Please note that one down mindbubbles.
She's in Queensland, um, and oneof their phrases is I can do
tricky things yes so they've gotfive things that you know you

(39:14):
can introduce at the start ofevery session, and one of the
things is I can do tricky thingsand I say that to myself, it's
for you, it's for you know earlylearning.
I say that to myself, it's foryou know early learning.
And you know I am loved, I'mstrong.
I can do tricky things, yes,and you know, and you cover that

(39:35):
in your very first module.
So if you know if people arefeeling a bit wobbly, of course
you are Like we get wobbly andyou know we are challenged and
that's okay.
You know challenge.
I listened to a podcast withGigi from Alone.

(40:04):
And oh my gosh, she's amazing.
And when she was talking aboutleaning into the discomfort and
sitting with a discomfort, we'repretty quick to move away from
discomfort and you know I spokebefore about, you know, being in
the wind and the rain and thecold and you know that's
discomfort.
Yeah, it can sit with it.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
And I think this is the thing in the course is
people go, oh, I couldn't.
Possibly.
There is nothing special aboutourselves having started this
business.
It was purely that willingnessto fail, fail fast and ask
questions, and I think it'scuriosity.
And rather than going, oh, Ifast and ask questions, and I

(40:45):
think it's curiosity and ratherthan going I can't do it, it's
like well, what are the ways?
Exactly like you said, who's inmy support network?
Who can I ask where there'sgoing to be a safe landing place
.
But if I could have a dollar forevery person that said oh, I'm
a bit worried about, I won't saycompetition, but you know I'm
not as good as, and I just thinkif I could squash that word

(41:08):
flat like a bug pretty pleasenot that I encourage flattening
bugs but I this, this sector.
If I could wish anything forthis sector is collaboration A
just because of our biggervision and mission.
But I just think there's roomfor all of us.
Children need it.
We're a burgeoning new sectoranyway, so there's heaps of

(41:31):
space and this needs to be placeimmersed and person immersed.
So, even if you set up shopnext door, we're going to be
running two vastly differentprograms and we're going to be
attracting two vastly differenttypes of participants.
That's beautiful.
That means nature is moreaccessible.

(41:52):
So I would love everyone to putthat quote above you.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
Collaboration over competition,and see who you can help you,
you know, because it's onlygoing to benefit you and karma's
real.
Karma's real.
The more you give, the more youwill get back.
And I just think, I think itcomes back in nature too.

(42:15):
I honestly think nature thanksus working here and that's
probably going hippy dippy, buthonest to goodness, I sometimes
go out there and I'm, I know,the trees are thanking us for
bringing children here today.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
The leaves, they just start and it's like they're
alive and they say, oh good,you're here.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Thanks for bringing children to laugh here.
You're in play amongst my, youknow, a bit nicer version of the
giving tree book yeah, that'sit.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
You know, you touched on that.
You know you could set up nextdoor to someone.
You know I've never.
If you know there are twophysiotherapists in a town, you
know it just means that there'smore support for people who need
physiotherapy.
And I think when you're workingin the outdoors and with nature

(43:05):
and when you're genuinelycommitted to community I went to
say creating or expanding, butit's not those things, because
you're not even doing that, it'sjust you're committed to
community, you're engaging withcommunity and connection.

(43:27):
It's um, I think most peoplethat I've spoken to and most
people that I've engaged withare just oh awesome, you know,
it's just encouraging and ohfantastic.
Um, and it's been the same inoutdoor education as well.
You know I can't think of toomany closed off people.

(43:49):
I reckon I can count on onehand the number of people who
are closed off, and it mightactually be because they enjoy
nature more than people, notbecause they don't want to share
.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
No truer words spoken , and I think that's it.
If we were worried aboutcompetition, we wouldn't have
started this course.
First of all, because thehottest spot for nature play is
now the Sunshine Coast, you knowwhich I am so excited about.
But we have had many I'm goingto genderize here many a male

(44:23):
say to us what are you doing?
Why don't you franchise this?
You're giving it away, it's toocheap, yada, yada.
I'm like, yeah, we could do allthose things, but that feels
icky to us, it's not the right.
We can't McDonald's nature play, nor would we want to be the
ones that do it.
It just it doesn't feel right.
And I just think this needs tobe accessible, and it's already.

(44:46):
You know, there's alreadyenough barriers to getting
people out there starting thisthat there would just be another
one.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
So collaboration collaboration, collaboration
there really are.
Yeah, that's it, and I meanthrough your course as well.
You know you talk about that.
You talk about competition, youtalk about competition and you
talk about collaboration andabout seeking out you know
similar industries within yourarea to collaborate and it, you

(45:14):
know, on one hand, on a businesssense, it does help with
marketing and getting out there,but it also helps with, just
you know, if you've got the samevision, then you're working
with like-minded people.
And, yeah, if you've got thatcommitment to engagement with
nature, then all you're doing isjust creating space for more

(45:35):
people to engage with nature.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And when we have more people engage and become
comfortable with nature, developa relationship benefits, and
it's so nice to be able to speakto people that speak your
language and get it too.
You know it's, even if they're,you know, pure outdoor rec and
your nature play.
They still get it.
They still get the fundamentalsof why we're doing what we're
doing, and we need our ownlittle villages in amongst this.

(45:59):
You know we need a supportnetwork to fall back on when
things get hard.
Speaking of hard, where are youup to in the course?
What have you found the hardestto navigate so far?

Speaker 3 (46:14):
And is there anything we could add?
You already know what theanswer is.
I'm sure I bounce around alittle bit because when I'm
working on one thing it kind ofleads me to another thing and if
I have a question, then I canlook through the resources and
odds are there's going to be aresource there for me that
answers it, that I can work onand just enhance my knowledge of

(46:38):
it.
And if it's not a be all andanswer, then it's at least a
guide for me to say, okay, cool,I can, I can.
That's a starting point and Iappreciate, I actually I
actually appreciate the subtletyof not spoon feeding
information, because I wouldn'tlearn it if it was spoon fed.

(47:04):
And I think, with a lot of and alot of things that are covered
and I have a lot of like interms of risk assessments and
management and policies, I'veworked in that for a long time
and if it was spoon fed to menow, I think I'd miss a lot and
I'd leave my participantsunprotected.

(47:27):
To be contextualised, right,yeah, and it would be.
You know, if I didn't alreadyhave, if I came into this fresh.
You've given like a really goodframe and scaffold for people
to think about what they'regoing to need to look out for to

(47:48):
keep their participants safeand because there are risks
inherent in being in theoutdoors.
You know you don't want toskirt over it, of course there
are.
There's risks in socialengagement, there's risks in
hurting ourselves.
There's animals, there's otherpeople, there's other people,
there's cars, you know there'sall sorts of things.
So, um, yeah, I bounce around abit.
I'm up to insurance, um, andthat is my biggest challenge, um

(48:15):
.
Did you get it?

Speaker 1 (48:16):
did you guess it?
Well, it was either.
You know it was either theledge, and where you fall in
your programming, or theinsurance generally, the the two
hardest parts.
They are.
They are just hard and you'reexercising your heart muscle,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
And look, actually, for me, I think it's difficult.
And it's not difficult becauseit's inherently challenging.
It's difficult because it'stime consuming yes, and I kind
of want to get started as welland it's slow.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
It's difficult because it's time consuming and
I kind of want to get started aswell, and it's slow, it's slow,
but you just want your answersback that week and done, mm-hmm,
mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And look at least.
I think we're in a goodposition now where there are
people insuring these activitiesagain.
Yes, and especially for newbusinesses, because there was a
period of time where newbusinesses were not, and
probably well, don't put that in.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
No, it's okay because we are working really hard
behind the scenes and in fact,should have a set of industry
best practice guidelines fornature play out in the next
couple of weeks.
Oh great, yeah, because that'swhat insurers are really not
flat out telling us,unfortunately.
But what they're saying iswhere's the industry guidelines

(49:36):
for your decisions on thesepolicies, risk assessments, et
cetera?
So far, it's been us Canadathat's where they are, Yep
exactly Canada and wildlings andthe UK for some things.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
But where we're struggling.
Which is what I've based, youknow some of my policies on is
Canada and UK and it's like, wow, when is Australia?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
But there will be, which is great.
So, yes, and there are insurersnow insuring everything,
because there was a period ofnearly two years where insurers
were choosing not to insure one,essentially one activity which
was infuriating.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
But we're back which is exciting, given that
departments are able to accessthose activities.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Everybody is allowed to access those activities, or
has been, and they just decidedto take it away for a period.
Tricky, tricky, tricky.
Yes.
Has there been any unexpectedbonuses that you were surprised
to find in the course?
Has there anything, anyresource that you were like?
Oh, I never even thought aboutthat.

(50:45):
That's been super helpful.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Oh my goodness, I've never been an employer before Um
, and that's a big one Again.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
you know what?

Speaker 3 (51:00):
We exercise a lot of hard muscles.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Insurance probably wasn't my biggest challenge.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
We exercise a lot of hard muscles.
Insurance probably wasn't mybiggest challenge.
Insurance probably isn't mybiggest challenge, it's just my
hardest, you know, mostwork-intensive challenge.
Getting my head around being anemployer is going to be my
biggest challenge because I'mnot there yet.
Biggest challenge because I'mnot there yet.

(51:32):
It actually prompted me tofigure out how I can get used to
the one facilitator activitiesfirst, before introducing more
staff members.
And that's a challenge for mebeing a sole trader as well and
not having a partnership oranother person, because if I
don't have the employees or thatother person to come in and and

(51:55):
and you know, make up ratiosand run programs safely and
effectively, um then you knowI'm, I'm it's limited somewhat
as to what I can do, so I haveto be a bit more creative so
that I and I think it'simportant you know we talk about
introductions to things andlearning and taking risks you

(52:15):
know it forced me to think aboutwhat level of risk I'm willing
to take in terms of the depth ofknowledge I'd like to have,
whether I want to go for depthor bulk.
But so the resourcing for theemployment stuff has been
fantastic and, you know, evenjust things like I hadn't even

(52:36):
considered that I'd need tothink about workers'
compensation or superannuation,and you know what kind of award
any employees would come underand then you know.
Then, to know what kind ofaward you're going to come under
, you need to know, you knowwhat regulations you're working
under and you know it's what'sin your job description.

(52:59):
It's been fantastic Correct,but it's been fantastic.
That was the biggest surprise.
I think that just kind of wentoh my gosh.
I'm so glad this is here,because I wouldn't have thought
of that at all and I'm notsaying that I wouldn't have come

(53:19):
across it Totally.
I think it's just great that itwas there as part of the heads
up.
You're going to need to thinkabout this and I know that it's
evident in other courses and youknow I've got a lot of support
from other people as well andorganizations, but it's yeah, it
was great to have it just thereas a module that I could go

(53:42):
whoa, it's great that I could gowhoa, it's great.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I think you brought up a really great point in that
when we're starting a business,if you're looking to start
anything other than a play group, which are not hugely
profitable unless you'recharging a premium and if you're
not charging a premium, thenyou're not making money, and if
you're not making money, you'repaying for insurance and whatnot
.
Then heads up.
You are going to have to becomean employer fairly quickly in

(54:14):
your journey, and that's okayand honestly, I think that was
my most terrifying part too,having been an employee my
entire life and not beingsurrounded by other business
people.
Look, my friendship circle areemployees.
Well, were, funnily enough,that's changing the longer I'm
in business too.
So just be not even just beprepared, but just be aware that

(54:38):
if you're not prepared tobecome an employer, then making
your business sustainable as asole trader in this sector could
be difficult, unless you'rerunning multiple high-end play
groups or one-on-one NDIS orother.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
there's other ways around that yeah, and there are,
and you know there are.
You know I'm starting to getcreative in developing workshops
and yes thing, and you know,through other organizations and
and things like that.
But also just, I'm also askingquestions through other business
owners and through um I'm I'mseeking support, and from all

(55:20):
different angles, because onebusiness will come up against
something that another businessmight not, and they've learned
lessons from that.
And I am at a stage where Ithink I just I'm not shying away
from asking questions.
I would like to know there isno fault in me not knowing,
because I've never done thisbefore.

(55:41):
There's no reason for me to bean expert.
I've never done it before, so Ifor me to be an expert.
I've never done it before, soI'm going to be asking questions
.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
That's my second wish for people doing this course is
to make use of that Facebookgroup, because we're just one
business with one experience and, while we run the gamut of
sectors from early years to, youknow, adults, there is a huge
plethora of experts in thatgroup that come from a huge wide
range of experiences, years andyears, like hundreds of years

(56:14):
of experience in nature, play,education, et cetera.
So tap into it and even if youyou know, yes, ask the question
publicly, yes, join ourbi-monthly calls.
But also just DM someone Likeif you go, oh, I just saw that
other program running that looksamazing, what is it?
How is it?
What's your ratio?
Flick them a DM.
That's the whole point of thisgroup is to have this network of

(56:38):
experts, and I know none of youthink you are yet, but you are.
You're just bringing yourexpertise from other areas into
this tiny little niche.
But gosh, the experience inthis group blows my mind.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Absolutely, and I think you touched on a really
important point there as well isthat, like nobody thinks
they're an expert, that'sbecause nobody knows what
they're doing really.
I mean, I first put my hand up.
Yeah, you know, we have ourexperience and we have our
knowledge and we can't discountit.
You know it's really important.
Um, I know the things that I'mreally good at, um, and you know

(57:15):
I'm quick to identify and sharethe knowledge that I have in
certain areas.
But at the same time, there's aheck of a lot of stuff that
I've got no idea about.
And that's okay, because that'swhat community is about.
You know, you know one thing, Iknow another thing.
We put that together and welearn together.
You know, and that's how wemove forward.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
If moving forward is where we're going.
Yeah, and that's yeah, or thespiral, but that's the other
beauty of this group.
We've had people go oh, do youhave this resource or does
anyone know about this?
And I'm like, well, that's newto me.
I haven't even thought aboutthat, even in our years of
running this business.
That's never come up in ourbusiness.
How great, let us look into it.

(57:57):
We'll create a resource.
Or someone else will say,here's a resource that I've done
for my thing.
Like it's just, it's incredible.
I learned something from thatgroup all the time.
Yeah, so again, like you said,not the expert, and it's a good
sharing community as well.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's it.
I've just been productiveenough to join a community of

(58:20):
great minds is really all that'shappened.
All that's happened.
That's amazing.
Is there anything else you wantto talk about before or add, or
first of all, with your visionfor Bushwalking Mama, do you
have an idea yet and of whereyou want that to go, what that

(58:43):
might look?

Speaker 3 (58:44):
like.
I've been creating this missionfor about 10 years, so I have a
big Excel spreadsheet withseveral columns of different
avenues that I would love thisto go.
It's all based around justconnection and community and

(59:10):
comfort and discomfort, and it'sjust about creating space for
us to engage with nature,connect as part of nature, learn
from each other, and that's forall ages.
I have a considerable amount ofexperience through outdoor ed

(59:34):
in running activities andcreating space and just there's
a lot of activities that are astarting point for that
engagement and I don't see it asa running an activity for
engagement.

(59:54):
It's always as a starting pointfor engagement because I know
that you know, for instance, atthe moment I'm running a nature
journaling activity overInstagram and over Facebook and
there has not been one timewhere I have gone out with my
journal with a vision in my headof the activity that I'm going

(01:00:15):
to do, where I've stopped, whenI've completed that activity.
So I've gone out and I've donethe activity and, you know, said
right, that's it, Kick the box,I usually end up in a space
that's completely different towhere I started.
So, yeah, I think theconnection is the biggest part

(01:00:42):
of it and I see, especially withwomen, and not as an isolation
but as just as a culturalexperience.
You know, I've camped a lot ina lot of different areas and we
did a big trip around Australia,as I know that you did as well,
and I know that I met a lot ofwomen that were maybe not so

(01:01:05):
much fearful but inexperiencedand uncomfortable about their
inexperience in the outdoors orsetting up a tent or lighting a
fire.
And I think we restrict ourability to connect because we're
not learning from women.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
I know that there's been times.
You know, my first mountainbiking experience, for instance,
was with some guys who werelike just do it, just do it,
just do it.
And I went hang on, that's not.
That's not actually how I needyou.
I need to listen to my feelingsand they're like I don't have
time for that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
We're riding.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
And I'm not saying that that's the experience on
the whole, because you know,I've also had great instructors
who have been men, who dovalidate that experience.
But I think there's a differentsense of community and
engagement when you're acommunity of women learning from
each other, and I think it's,you know it's, it's ancestral,

(01:02:03):
you know it is.
When we're learning and we'recommuning with women, it's
ancestral and we get, we are, weare in a place where we know
we're in the right place andlearning in the right place.
So, being able to offer a spacewhere we can share knowledge of
the outdoors, or shareknowledge of how to light a fire
, or set up a tent, or back atrailer, or navigate or dress

(01:02:28):
for warmth and comfort or how to, you know, do whatever it is.
And I say sharing becauseeverybody has, everybody has
something to offer.
And for the women's spaces thatI would love to, I don't want to

(01:02:49):
create them, but women's spacesI'd love to create, invite, I
do want them.
Yeah, invite, I invite peopleto.
I would like them to be asharing and collaborative space.
It's not just me going hey,this is how you light a fire, do
it this way every time it's.
You know we're sharing and hey,you know we need a fire.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yeah, oh, there's so much in that.
I love it.
Still, one of my favouritethings to do is to teach women
how to light fire.
There's something reallyempowering and the confidence
you can see them go.
Ah, like it's almost whenyou've been unable not unable
when you haven't been given theopportunity to do it, you might

(01:03:35):
not even think about it, butwhen suddenly you can, you go oh
, I've missed out.
Like this is something I'vewanted to do and I can do it,
and it's just so empowering.
I can't even explain howempowering it is from even my
perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
But you're also creating a living, breathing
thing as you do it, it's almostmaternal and primal, you know,
because it is Fire, is livingand breathing.
It eats, it feeds, it breathes,it moves.
It has quiet times and large.
You know more active times andyou're creating life when you're
doing it and as life creators,you know it's a really powerful

(01:04:14):
thing to be able to do that withbushwalking mama.
it's just more experiences forplay and more opportunities for
play, because it is just that'swhere we do all of our learning.
And yeah, just I say instruct,but it's not instruction, it's
learning, you know educationshouldn't be about teaching.
It should be about learning.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
You know, it's all learning.
I think I'm going to say anyonelistening that has never lit a
fire before, I don't care whatyour gender is If you go to, if
you're in a scenario wheresomeone is about to light a fire
, why not ask them and let themknow?
Hey, I've never lit a fire.
I'd really like to try it.
Can I learn from you?

(01:04:56):
You know, and have a go,because you will surprise
yourself.
I think, I don't know.
It feels like one of thosethings people think they're not
going to be able to do.
And again, who cares?
There's no such thing asfailure.
Worst thing is going to happen.
Someone's going to help you getstarted but you're going to
learn a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Yeah, I couldn't do it.
The first time I did it I toldyou about my year 10 camp.
I didn't even light a fire, Irolled myself up in my top and
cried.
But then I had an experiencewhere I was.
You know I was in a workplaceand one of the one of my I'll
call them a colleague, althoughit was the nineties and we

(01:05:33):
didn't have colleagues then.
You know the guys I worked with.
You know I wasn't allowed tosit by the fire unless I'd lit
it with one match.
So it was, you know, thanksmate, so it took me a long time.
Yeah, it's not like he didn'thelp me, he guided me, but you

(01:05:53):
know it was.
It was learning and practicingand going.
I can't do this and thenlearning how to, you know, keep
a fire going if all you've gotis wet wood and, yeah, tips and
tricks and learning that if Iwant a fire in the morning when
I'm camping, if fires areallowed where we are, then I've
got to put some stuff away thenight before so that it's dry.

(01:06:16):
It'll make it a lot easier Hardlessons?

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
There is some, and that's the thing right, it's not
a one-off lesson, it'severything in nature is a
learning journey, and you'renever an expert, and I think
that's the beauty of it.
We're all just lifelonglearners.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Yeah, so what started as something that was me just
documenting me playing with thekids and trying to inspire or
encourage other families to do,you know, to have something to
do outdoors.
You know, it's kind of mouldedinto bringing it offline and
making it a personal andin-person experience, because if

(01:06:59):
we're just doing it online it'snot really.
The connection is there onlinebut it's not really.
The connection is there onlinebut it's not the same connection
as being in person and actuallybeing on the earth and creating
that community.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
I cannot wait to see how your journey unfolds,
because it will change and moveand grow.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Me too, Nikki.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
It's super exciting, so exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
I want to fast forward.
I want to fast forward, I wantto fast forward.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
I know it is, and I think that's another thing
people need to know is that youknow we used to run this as a
12-month container, but what wehave found is that some people
have the time right and thespace and probably privilege in
there at that time to get thingsdone more quickly.
But you'll still get held upwith insurance, with red tape,

(01:07:53):
and that's okay.
But other people might take twoor three years in between life,
and that's okay too.
It's okay for things to happenin the time that they need to
happen.
Don't compare For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Don't compare, don't compare, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
All right, we've gone .
We've way over time, but that'sokay, I'm still going to put
the rapid fire questions.
It's lovely.
It's so lovely when things justnaturally unfold.
All right, here we go.
What's your favorite book ofall time and why, or what are
you currently reading?

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
I can do both.
My favorite book of all time isthe Little Prince, because no
matter the age and no matterwhen I read it, I'm always able
to take something from it andit's just pure gorgeous lessons.
But they don't tell you whatthe lessons are.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
It's not written in there and art, you know it's not
written in there and I'm also.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
I'm reading Braiding Sweetgrass at the moment.
I still haven't read that how,oh, please do I'll send you my
copy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
I'm at that, honestly .
I keep looking in bookstoresand it's not there and I need to
just buy it online or something, because I'm a big supporter of
our local bookshop.
I'll actually go in and ask herto order it for me.
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Where do you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
go, or what do you do to reset after a tough day?

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Depends what has prompted the toughness.
But look, you can't be goingoutside going for a walk, and
whether it turns into a walkwhere you need to purge energy
or whether it's a walk just toremove, I think going for a walk
is just a really good thing todo.

(01:09:36):
But I also just I really lovetelling people when I've had a
tough day, and not in a,everybody needs to stop what
they're doing.
Because I've had a tough dayand not in a, everybody needs to
stop what they're doing becauseI've had a tough day.
But although I do that too, butyou know it's just I like
having the support of my familyand my friends.

(01:10:00):
You know we're we're a unit andI go to them.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Awesome, how nice that you've got a I go to them.
Awesome.
How nice that you've got a safespace to land.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
Oh, yes, very nice.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
If you had to choose just one thing to change about
that, I'm going to change thisfor you the outdoor recreation
system.
What would it be?
Oh, I don't know.
Usually ask education, so feelfree to switch over to education
, but I thought that's your zone.
Is there anything you'd change?

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Do you know what I think there are?
I think there's a lot of changethat happens because of the
people that are in there.
I think the outdoor educationzone sometimes really does work
from the bottom up, which isfantastic because the people who
are on the ground working withparticipants.

(01:10:53):
I think there's really goodconversation in that area and so
I wouldn't change that.
I think that's a really goodthing because, yeah, I think
people see what's needed and Ithink the outdoor education

(01:11:14):
sector and industry is prettyprivileged in the time we spoke
about before that they do havethat space and time to be able
to do that as well.
You know we can respond to thisthing rather than react to it,
and I think that engages reallywell.
It would be great if educationhad the same privilege and the
education system had thatprivilege to be able to respond

(01:11:37):
rather than to react, and thatthey had that, you know, on the
ground, bottom up kind ofinfluence.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
I agree it.
It's funny when you were sayingthat, I was thinking, yeah, you
know, there's so many microgroups within outdoor recreation
too, and again, there is aneducation too.
Right, but there's moreflexibility.
To say this is what I've seenas a sector and this is what we
believe needs changing, and it'slistened to.
I feel like maybe a bit morethan teachers get listened to,

(01:12:07):
which is really sad, because farout, do they know some stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Oh, they really do, they really do.
And you know, I've heard youask this before and you know,
heard all sorts of answers and Iknew, like when I was, I just
thought it's not the teachers,you know.
If it, you know what would youchange?
About the education system.
I just thought it's not theteachers, you know.
If it, you know, what would youchange about the education
system?
No, it's not the teachers andit's definitely not the students
no one has ever mentionedwhatever whatever needs to

(01:12:34):
change, it's not those twothings no, no, 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
And again, it's not.
I don't even think it's a biasfrom having worked in there and
not wanting to offend teachingfriends, because I know no, the
only reason they are still there, despite all the things that
they face, is their deep passionand advocacy for children, and
you would never change that,absolutely, yeah, no way.
Slowly, slowly, we'll get there.
And finally, christy, where canwe find out more about

(01:13:02):
Bushwalking Mama?

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Well, I am on Instagram and Facebook and I am
getting my website up now, whichis at bushwalkingmamacom, and
if you ever want to get in touch, you can contact me at info at
bushwalkingmamacom.
That's Mama with M-A-M-A-a yay,I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
It brings me such joy seeing these babies burgeoning
and getting their own wings andyou know, it's just, I cannot
wait to see what your, your bird, your little baby looks like
and all all its iterationsbecause that's the other again,
when we fail fast, when failingis fun all the iterations that,

(01:13:47):
all the learnings that you'llhave along the way, that end up
as your place immersed, personimmersed, community immersed I
was going to say beast.
Beasts are beautiful, they are,we are, that's right.
Thank you so much for coming onand it's been an absolute
privilege.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Well, thank you for having me and thank you for
providing a resource that isjust a gift to help support
people who want to take thisstep but need that support.
So thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Absolute pleasure.
Can't wait to come visit oneday.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Bring your woolies.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
I am such a lucky duck because there are just so
many parts of working in ourbusiness that I love, but I have
to say helping people starttheir own nature play businesses
is probably my favorite.
Seeing people like Christybelieve in herself enough to
take the leap from employee toemployer, even as scary as it is
, makes me so happy, because Ijust know that more children are
going to be able to connectwith nature and access the

(01:14:59):
outdoors safely and she's goingto be able to work in a job that
she already knows she's good atand just loves going to work
every day.
So here's to more wildbusinesses popping up all over
Australia and the globe anduntil next week, stay wild.