From Science to Business: A Nature Play Adventure with Courtney Sullivan of WildPlay Co

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Courtney Sullivan, the founder of Wild Play Co., joins us to share her journey from academia to entrepreneurship. Inspired by her background in exercise science and concern over youth's sedentary lifestyles, she embarked on creating a nature play business, WildPlay Co, in Bendigo, Victoria.

We chat about:

• Launching a business while parenting young children and the unique challenges it brings
• The flexibility entrepreneurship offers as a parent
• The importance of connecting with like-minded individuals who share her passion for outdoor education and environmental conservation
• Managing permits and zoning hurdles
• Crafting authentic marketing messages and the power of storytelling in marketing.
• The importance of a diverse and dedicated team in their success
• How the Wild Business course bolstered her confidence to ask questions and seek guidance through the unpredictable path of entrepreneurship.
• And we celebrated Wild Play Co. first year, and hear all about Courtney's exciting plans for the future.

Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, practical advice, and the keys to navigating the entrepreneurial landscape with resilience and adaptability. 

Ever wondered how to bring the magic of 'Nature Play' into your child's education? Or how to say goodbye to your worries about snakes and ticks? With Nature Play Now, crafting an epic outdoor program is easier than you think. You’ll boost your confidence, skill sets, and have parents eager to enrol. Join the adventure for just $57, exclusively for Raising Wildlings listeners. Visit our Raising Wildlings website for more details today!"

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Hey it’s Nicki here interrupting this episode to quickly say, if you’re like us and feeling torn between your career as an educator vs. your beliefs for child development, 

We’ve created a 5 step e-guide to unlock your purpose without compromising your values. 

This Treasure Map is completely free, takes ten minutes, and is available from our Raising Wildlings website. So  dive in and s

If you enjoyed this episode of Raising Wildlings. We invite you to check out Your Wild Business, our signature business course for education change-makers who are ready to create or refine their own nature play businesses.

Your Wild Business is the only program that focuses on the business side of nature play, with sustainable practices, processes, and systems that will cut down your administration work, giving you more time to focus on building a business that is centered around your e

Other ways we can help you:

1. Ready to create your own Nature Play business? Head to www.raisingwildlings.com.au/wildbusiness to access the roadmap to starting your business journey.

2. Keen to find your purpose in 10 minutes? Download our FREE treasure map to find your passion without compromising your educational values.

3. Want to know how to craft an epic outdoor program that has parents and directors lining up to enrol? You need Nature Play Now our $57 Workshop and Bundle series (people are saying this is a steal!)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're chatting to Courtney Sullivan, wild
Business course participant andowner of Wild Play Co in Bendigo
, victoria, about the ups anddowns of leaving academia and
starting her own nature playbusiness, and she's just
celebrated her first year inbusiness.
We'd like to acknowledge thetraditional custodians of the

(00:21):
land on which we record todaythe Kabi Kabi and Gubbi Gubbi
people.
We recognise their continuedconnection to the land and
waters of this beautiful place.
We recognise Aboriginal peopleas the original custodians of
this land and acknowledge thatthey have never ceded
sovereignty.
We respect all Gubbi Gubbielders, ancestors and emerging
elders and all First Nationspeople listening today.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative education, stepping into the wilderness,
however that looks, with yourfamily.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly
inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
We're your hosts.
Vicky and Nikki from WildlingsForest School, Pop in your
headphones, settle in and joinus on this next adventure.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Good morning.
I'm so excited to have you withus today, courtney, you have
been one of those businessesthat I've just loved to follow,
because you're a go-getter andyou're a problem solver, so
thank you for coming on andsharing your story with Wild
Play Co.
How are you today?

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Oh, I'm great, Nikki, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
It is.
I feel like a mother hen whenI'm watching through the
Facebook group and on the causeplatform as well.
But I'm just just know.
I'm always sitting here behindmy screen just rooting for you
all, and I can also almost tellwho's going to have their
business up and running in ayear.
You know, within that year, twoyears, and I knew you would.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Is it because I asked so many questions in the
Facebook group?
Yeah, sorry about that.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
No, but that's what I'm like right, she's going to
get it done.
Because that's how I can tell.
Because you're in there andyou're asking the questions,
you're not afraid to askquestions, you're confident in
the fact that you're allowed toask questions and that the
support group will hold you init as well, and I love it.
And I hope everybody knows inthat group that when you're
asking questions you'reanswering them for everybody,

(02:23):
because everybody goes backthrough those pages and some
people are a bit shy.
So when I see people askingquestions I'm like yes, thank
you, because people are thinkingit and they're just too shy to
ask.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
So yeah, oh, of course and I think that's
underestimated just the value ofthat Facebook group and also
the one-on-one chats with youand Vicky that we get as part of
the World Business Course.
I so the one-on-one chats withyou and Vicky that we get as
part of the World BusinessCourse.
I was always in those callsbecause I loved them and I just
thought it was honestly one ofthe best things about the course

(02:54):
just being able to ask peoplewho've been through that exact
journey those questions and getanswers in such a short space of
time.
That's, yeah, that's basicallywhat helped me get up and
running so quickly.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
So, thank you for offering.
Oh, my pleasure.
I think I love about thosegroups too that they're always
small.
You know we've got a big groupin the course but we only
probably get half a dozen.
So you do get a good amount ofairtime to ask any particular
question, and I love it Honestly.
If I could do that five days aweek, I would do that.
So hit me with your questions.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
I've got a list after our call Good good, I love it.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Honestly, I should be some kind of ideator, problem
solver with the nature of nature, play business and that's it.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, that sounds like a title.
You could get up off the ground.
I think you could make thatwork.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Look great in a business card sounds like a
title you could get up off theground.
I think you could make thatwork.
Look great in a business card.
So take us right back to thestart.
Courtney, where were you beforeyou started Wild Play Co?
What made you take the leap?
Because I think that's thebiggest decision.
Once you've made the decision,things are just problems to be
solved, but the biggest decision, I think, is taking the leap.

(04:03):
And then I would just love tohear you tell us all about your
journey the good, the bad, theugly, because I'm sure it's all
there oh, it certainly is,because no one's journey is ever
smooth.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
But um, look we.
So before um owning or foundingthe nature play business, my
background actually wasn't inearly childhood at all, which I
think is a little bit unique,like I know.
A lot of people come to thisbecause it is just a natural
flow from being in that earlychildhood space and wanting to
work more with kids outdoors andin unstructured play without a

(04:35):
curriculum.
But I actually didn't come fromthat space, so my background's
in academia and it's in exercisescience, interestingly enough.
So I guess in that respect Ialways had the perspective of
being very acutely aware ofsedentary behaviour, because
some of our research is in thatspace, and particularly

(04:58):
sedentary behaviour in youngpeople.
So definitely, you know, thatled itself really into into this
nature place space.
But, um, but that wasn't the,that wasn't the driving force.
What actually happened was I'vebeen in academia for a while
and we were on holiday, withholidays with friends um up in
in New South Wales and I've gotfour really close girlfriends

(05:20):
who have families.
Now we've got seven boysbetween us.
That's all the children andthey're all boys, which is
ridiculous, but they're all thesimilar ages and we head away
with our families every year andwe have an absolute ball.
But as you know, there's quitea few nature play businesses in
New South Wales and inQueensland and it's just much
less common in Victoria for anumber of reasons.

(05:41):
But when we were up there oneof my girlfriends had been, her
little boy had been going alongto a bush kinder and he'd been
loving it and we were talkingabout it and it just piqued my
interest and I don't know if itwas just because my kids were at
a similar age where they wouldreally enjoy something like that
, but it just became reallyclear to me.
I was like, oh my God, I haveto find that, something like

(06:01):
that in my area, you know,because my kids would just
thrive in that environment.
So I came home and you know I'mI very much love deep diving
into things and so I did all theresearch and I'm like, right,
I've got to find something likethis in my area.
And you know, there was just,there was just nothing.
There was certainly things inMelbourne, but we're in central

(06:24):
Victoria, we're two hours fromMelbourne, so that's not
achievable.
And Bendigo is a reallyoutdoorsy community and there's
a lot of mountain biking.
Here we've got beautiful boxironbark forest around us and
but despite that, there was nonature immersion programs here
at the time.

(06:45):
So I went on a deep dive intowell, is this even possible to
create a business like this?
You know, and you know what doyou need to scaffold the
business, what do you need froman insurance perspective?
And you know, I did all thisresearch and, of course, doing
that in Google brought me toWildlings Forest School.
Of course.
Doing that in Google brought meto Wildlings Forest School, of

(07:05):
course, and you know, I saw atthat point a solution to my
problem.
And then, you know, it becamediscussions with my husband
around.
You know, is this somethingthat we're interested in?
And of course, we live on landtoo.
So that was.
The other thing is that I justsaw all these stars align, nikki
, like I just saw.
You know, I need these programsfor my kids.

(07:27):
Bendigo, as a community, needsthese programs and we've got
land where we can actually havea permanent setup.
So that's where these fewthings came together.
And then the wild businesscourse.
And, yeah, I think, within acouple of weeks of being away on
holidays with my friends, wecommitted to the course and then

(07:47):
I just devoured it, like in afew weeks, just, absolutely just
.
You know, every night kids arein bed and just devoured the
course.
That's not the only way, ofcourse, but I think I was just
so keen on getting things up andrunning and I was so interested
, and that's just how I operate,I think.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I just yeah same.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I get stuck.
I get it so badly yeah, like,and even today, now, like you
know, further a year down theroad in the business, there's
things that you know I've gotplanned for Wildplay Co moving
forward, and you know I'mthinking a year in advance, two
years in advance, and it's justthe way that I operate.
But yeah so we just got stuck in.

(08:28):
We got stuck in, we did themarket research and all the
different steps of the WorldBusiness Plan and within, so I
think I joined.
It would have been mid-2022.
Yeah, and we launched our veryfirst program a year later, so
it was the winter months term.
What does that take us into?
Term two of?

(08:50):
or term three.
Sorry, Term three of 2023 wasour very first term in operation
, so it was a year in thebackground and that was a year
like.
That was pretty full on like interms of Solid year.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
You know, you've got it.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It's a solid year because you've got you're
learning all the things aboutsetting up a business to start
with.
And then we had the you knowextra, I guess the extra
obstacle of then setting up thepermanent site, which it didn't
need too much but in the endprobably needed more than we
thought.
And then you've got things likeparking and logistical things

(09:26):
and insurance can take time andum, but yeah, everything came
together and you're never readyto launch, of course you know
like you could be having a babyaround with it oh you're never
ready.
You're not ready um, but you,but you launch and you work out
a couple of things on the go.
As long as you know safety's inplace, you know everything else
can kind of follow.

(09:46):
So yeah, and here we are, ayear down the road.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I can't believe how quickly that year has gone.
You know, from the outsidelooking in obviously it seems so
quickly but seems so quick.
Tell me about in that yearbecause you know, originally
when we started our business wesaid this is a year long course.
You'll get it done in a yearand you can pretty much if you
dedicate your entire life to itand and everything plays by the

(10:15):
book.
You know which it doesn't like.
You said, insurance now istaking around on average six
weeks and if you want to startyour own business on your own
property, if you have to dealwith any council or shires, it
can take, as you know and I'llget you to talk about that in a
minute a lot longer than thattoo to get those approvals
through.
But we've since obviouslyextended that and it's a
lifetime course now because wejust realised people have lives,

(10:35):
they have babies, they movehouse, they have deaths in the
family and I was just talking toCourtney beforehand.
I don't think there's anyone inthe course that doesn't have
children.
So everyone starting theirbusiness is generally starting
with toddlers around theirankles, and that is not the
easiest time to start, and alsoI think a great time to start.

(10:56):
Yeah, I look back now and go Idon't know how I did it and at
the same time now I've got twoin the house somewhere
entertaining themselves.
Business is running itself andit's so easy.
Now I think my only advicewould be, if you could do it,
you know, two to three yearsbefore you got pregnant, that
would be my recommendation.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So, true.
But you don't get these ideasand you don't get that kind of
momentum and that drive.
Sometimes, there's somethingabout little kids at your ankles
that just really gives you thatcreative drive to go.
No, I want to do this.
I want to do this now you know,and having the kids.
And that's right, you know, andyou build something around

(11:37):
yourself that you need for yourfamily and it gives you the
flexibility to do that and Ithink that was one of the most
appealing things about thecourse.
And Riv was my oldest, was he'ssix now, but he would have been
four at the time and Bowie wasprobably only one.
But yeah, I mean in many waysyou know there's always pros and

(11:57):
cons to the ages that you dothings, but that you know Riv
was at the perfect age forBushkindi, so that was just so
lovely to be able to transitionhim into that program and now
Bowie's, you know, almost atthat age where he's coming into
Bushkindy and Riv's in thehomeschool group and it's, yeah,
it just it works and it's, youknow, it's what we needed for
our kids and it's what Bendigocommunity needed as well, and I

(12:18):
can see that Like that's one ofthe most beautiful things is.
I can just I didn't realise.
One of the most lovely thingsthat I've seen is just the
community that you develop,because you don't realise how
many people out there are justlike you.
They just want the same thingsfor their kids.
You know, I always thought thatit was second nature to us to
raise our children outside, andyou know having a go at lots of

(12:41):
different things and you knowconserving and protecting the
environment it's always been abig focus for us.
But there's so many otherpeople out there who have that
same want for their children andthey want to be able to bring
them to a program thatcelebrates all those things.
So if you're in doubt of ifthere's people in your community
, of course do your marketresearch, but I assure you that

(13:04):
there's other people out therejust like you.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh, 100%, it's.
Yeah, I feel all of thosethings and again, I think people
don't even know that they'relooking for it until they
stumble across you, often aswell, and then they go oh, it's
almost not relief, but it's oh.
There's more people like us outthere that get it and want to
help the planet and want to beoutside.

(13:27):
And you know, maybe our childrenseem a little bit wild, but
it's, they're not wild.
They just need to run and beallowed to run and play and use
their outdoor voice.
And when they do those thingsthey're not wild at all.
They're beautiful, beautiful,happy children absolutely
absolutely so tell me about someof the hardest things you came

(13:48):
across in that first startupyear, because it is a year,
there's a lot there and you'rean academic, so I know academia
is not easy.
What did you find differentfrom moving across from academia
to owning your own business,cause there's red tape in both
and there's stakeholders in boththat you know you have to kind

(14:08):
of abide by and do the rightthing by.
What did you find that wasdifferent and harder and how did
your problem solve those things?

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Okay, so I would say that I mean, you know, time is
definitely the first thing is,you know, being able to, you
know, put the time aside, andoften it's when the kids go to
bed.
You know time is definitely thefirst thing is, you know, being
able to, you know, put the timeaside, and often it's when the
kids go to bed you know, that'swhen you sit down and do your
admins.
That was when I devoured thecourse and I tended to go
through the course in a way thatI would do what I could achieve

(14:37):
from that module as I went.
There were some things that ofcourse are on the background,
like your insurance is somethingthat you can organise later.
But if there was something forexample the branding that I

(14:59):
could get done at that time,then I'd jump in and do what I
could so that I had those kindof little snippets of the
business set up along the way.
The policies and proceduresbecause I haven't come from an
early childhood background wasvery new to me, so I think that
I probably took a little bitlonger than most to wrap my head
around that process.
And then from there I would saythat then the site setup became
one of our biggest challengesin just being able to

(15:19):
logistically organise thingslike parking and signage and
being able to get up to the siteand you know how that would
kind of how we would store ourresources.
So things like that all becomeissues when you've got your own
permanent site.
But nothing that we couldn'tproblem solve, but just things

(15:40):
that were a little bit of achallenge.
We were lucky.
You mentioned before, nikki,about permits and so forth.
So it depends.
Obviously it's different inevery state, but it does depend
on the zoning of your property.
I know we've got another friendwho comes up through with me,
roz, who's in Ballarat, who'sgot a beautiful program down

(16:01):
there Half Nature Play and Rozhad some issues because of her
zoning and, you know, had tojump through lots of hoops.
We are rural, what are we outhere?
Rural living zone out here inSedgwick, in Bendigo.
So for that reason we didn'trequire any permits.

(16:22):
We're limited to the number ofstaff we can have working and
we're limited with signage orthe size of our signage.
But in terms of being able toset up on the property.
We didn't have any limitations,thankfully, so I got all that
in writing, which is veryimportant.
You do have to do your duediligence and I've got all that
in writing, but we were luckyfrom that perspective that we

(16:44):
didn't have to jump through toomany hoops with council, but
it's very state dependentunfortunately.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, you're one of the I think less than three in
the whole course, but sayingthat, probably less than
probably only half a dozen,maybe a few more have actually
tried to do it on their ownproperty, but it is.
It's totally zoning.
If you're rural, residential orwhat did you call yours?
Rural living, generally you'reokay.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Rural living zone.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
yeah, yeah if you're just rural, some councils are no
, and if you're residential,it's pretty much an absolute no
without it.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well, not an absolute no, but there's a whole lot of
development approvals or youknow you need to and even
wherever you are, you need tohave toileting, parking, traffic
control Absolutely, and so,yeah, we're lucky that we don't
have any of that.
But there's, and then there'scosts associated with applying
to council for differentapplications and so forth, and
when you're already you knowyou're already, you're out money

(17:38):
for you know you've done thecourse and you've done your
resources and your insurance,which you're paying monthly
because you haven't got enoughto pay the annual fee yet, and
all these things.
And then to add on to that, thepossibility of having to apply
for permits.
It can make it, you know,unaffordable.
So but now we also run fromdifferent locations around

(18:01):
Bendigo and that's all publicland and you know that's got its
own challenges with needing toapply for permits to use that as
well.
So we've kind of, you knowwe've had experience in both and
both beautiful in their own way, but they, you know, it's never
smooth sailing in any way thatyou choose.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Tell me about your first term or two.
You expanded really quickly.
You had a really great, uh,really great start, and I, from
that from again observing, fromlooking in I would put that down
to your marketing and the factthat you, a bendigo, was
untapped absolutely so manyplaces, though, so I don't think

(18:40):
it's purely that it wasuntapped.
I think your marketing.
You do a spectacular job of it.
You're very great at gettingyour face in front of the camera
, which a lot of people don't do.
Your branding is beautiful.
I think you do a really greatjob of it, and I really want to
plug that, because I want peopleto know how important it is.
The old saying you know youmight have the best tasting

(19:01):
muffins in the world, but ifnobody knows that you're selling
the best tasting muffins in theworld, people aren't going to
come.
So kudos to you for gettingstraight in there and just doing
that.
Tell us about your expansion,though.
How did you go doing that?

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Thank you, I appreciate those kind words and
yeah, look, I think I knew onceI did the Well Business course.
I just knew how important themarketing and promotional aspect
of this business was going tobe, particularly in bendigo, as
you mentioned, we there's noother nature immersion services,
so we really had to, um, Iguess, build trust and

(19:37):
authenticity within ourcommunity that this is a service
that is here for you and thisis what we do and this is how
we're different to you know,other things that are in the
area, um, so social media for uswas and still is, you know, 95
or 98 of our, of our marketing,because that's where people live
these days and that's where ourour ideal customers, which are,

(19:58):
you know, busy I say parents,but it's predominantly mums um
that that's, that's where theyare.
They pop the kids to bed andthey, you know, have a quick
check of their Instagram and weall do it, you know, and that's
how we connect a lot these days.
So I knew that that was where Ineeded to focus a lot of our
marketing.
We did have some flyers out.

(20:19):
We've done quite a few any ofthe local you know festivals and
events and so forth.
We put our name out there withcouncil and said we're happy to
come along and of course you'reout of pocket for those days and
it also takes time out of aweekend and you've got to go and
set up and pack up and youdon't get any money from it.
But the marketing that you getfrom that and just the exposure
is absolutely priceless.

(20:41):
So you've got to be prepared toput yourself out there a little
bit absolutely priceless.
So you've got to be prepared toput yourself out there a little
bit.
I'm an introvert at heart butI'm also quite social and I'm
really happy to small talk withanyone and chat and I find that
I can relate to people reallywell.
So that's been a real advantagein our programs and you know,

(21:01):
I've made many friends throughthis process and I think that's
all through just being open andbeing happy to be vulnerable and
admitting.
Sometimes on socials we admitour mistakes and our failures.
The other day we tried to makesome crayons.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I saw that one that was great With leftover crayons
like, yeah, oh, you know, andjust absolute failure.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
But these things happen and we're all learning
and that's okay.
So I think that your audiencereally appreciates that.
You know as much as you have avery professional website and a
very, you know, robust andscaffolding of your business,
but it's okay to still belearning at the same time.
You know, I appreciate that, assomeone in this space, I

(21:44):
appreciate when other people say, oh, we got this wrong.
Or you know I appreciate thatas someone in in this space, I
appreciate when other people say, oh, we got this wrong or you
know where this we should havedone it this way.
And you know I'm okay with that.
So I think that's been a reallybig, a really big part of it.
But, yeah, social mediabranding so important, um, and
we've certainly used that as ourmain form of of marketing and
you know what?
That's the biggest part of whatwe do now Like it's really,

(22:07):
it's huge, and I'm trying tofind ways to actually I know you
guys would be too Nikki likejust trying to find ways to not
cut back but be more efficientin that process, because it can
be a real time sucker and youknow you don't want to be sat at
a computer.
You really, you know we madethese businesses so that we

(22:28):
could get out there and playoutside and so our kids can be
out there in nature and we wantto really hold on to that as
much as possible.
But also, you've got to sellyour programs and you've got to
sell them every term because youknow that's the cycle of this
business, is that you've got toget out there and you know we're
coming towards the middle ofterm three now and you know in

(22:52):
the next few weeks we're goingto be looking at marketing again
for term four and of course youhave quite a few repeat
customers, which is fantastic,but also there's always going to
be space for more.
So it's ongoing and it'sprobably I underestimated it, I
would say, nikki, at the start,as much as we put a lot of
emphasis on marketing andpromotion 100%, I agree

(23:15):
underestimated how importantthat was going to be for the
sale of our programs.
And yeah, I'm realizing thatnow and it's a big, it's a big
push for us.
But that's okay, that's what'srequired in small business.
We love it and that's what weneed to do to get the word out
there.
So that's what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
And I think that's the thing.
I think it wouldn't matter whatsmall business we were running.
You know, the yellow pages arelong gone and this is we don't
really have a choice.
It's, it's social media ornothing.
So then it's a, how we dealwith that and b, like you said,
exactly how we market to getbottoms on seats every term,
because you know the ourfavorite children are all

(23:54):
leaving for big school, you know, at the end of the year as well
, and and so we're trying tobring in that next cohort of
families.
It's so sad and so bittersweetand so beautiful to watch that,
but it is hard.
So I think my only advice thereis I mean, you're doing an
amazing job and just continuingwhat you're doing, but then we
don't need new stuff all thetime either.

(24:16):
So, going back through yourinsights and just reposting what
you've got every year, becausethat stuff deserves airtime.
You know it's like an artistjust because you've painted a
painting, you don't just put itaway once you've done it, it's
you've gone to all the effort tocreate it, it's tracking well,
audiences like it.
So we should hang it again andagain and again, because we know

(24:39):
it resonates.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
It's so true.
It's so true.
We have the same messages,because we're not reinventing
the wheel every term and everyyear.
No, we have the same messagesand you can.
You can say the same message inmany different ways yeah to
your ideal customer and yourideal client.
Um, and it's just about being alittle bit creative in that

(24:59):
space but you'll find your idealclient because if you are doing
this for authentic reasons andyou're genuine and you can get
that across on camera whether itbe with your face or whether it
be with your messages thenthat's what's going to attract
people to you and your business.
Yeah, because that's thinkabout it like that's how you
find businesses.

(25:20):
You know, if I can relate tosomeone and build a relationship
with someone whether it be yourmassage therapist or your yoga
teacher or you know, it doesn'tmatter who it is.
If you can relate to someoneand they've got the same values
as you, you're going to want toreach out, you're going to want
to work with them and you'regoing to want to bring your kids
to their program.
So that's the ethos that we,that we work with and I'm so

(25:43):
happy to be on camera.
I don't like not from a vanityperspective, I've got no
interest, but I just feel whenI'm on camera that I'm just
talking to you know, justtalking to someone.
I'm talking to one person ortwo people, like I'm not talking
to everyone.
That's.
That's the way that I kind ofthink about it and and I'm happy
to do that and I think thatpeople relate to they relate to

(26:05):
that, they really want to seeyour face, they want to see
who's behind the business, who'sbehind those messages, because
that makes it feel more real forthem and I think they're more
likely to come along if theyknow, oh, absolutely, absolutely
, that's a that's massive, youknow so, and we've got quite a
big team now.
So I make sure that you knowtheir faces are on our social
and and videos of theminteracting with the children so

(26:27):
that people can see, oh, youknow, that's, I know that person
, or, or, that's great, I knowthat my child will be well
looked after.
Um, people need to be able totrust us and our programs,
particularly for, you know, anyprograms that are drop-off, so,
so important and, you know,easily done, really, you know,
with your iPhone, these days alittle bit of video.

(26:47):
Like it's not hard.
It takes time and forethoughtbut it's not hard.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
No, and I think when you think about, as you know, as
a mom and a parent, sitting inmy bed at 10 o'clock at night
scrolling so much of Instagramis business now and we're one of
them, no doubt but so much ofit is corporate and so much of
it is product.
So when I see Courtney's facepop in with your big, beautiful
smile being so passionate andauthentic, it does stand out and

(27:15):
you're not doing anythingcorporate, you're just being
yourself, really talking reallyopenly about what you do and why
you do it, but that hilariouslylike that.
You know all these corporatepeople putting in all these, you
know advertising executives andpaying for all the
subcontractors to do all thesefancy corporate things, but it's
such a washout now ofcorporates that your face stands

(27:38):
out because you're a smallbusiness, you're passionate and
you're authentic.
So I would say that's yourspecial source, is just you
being you and being sopassionate, and it stands out
because that's unfortunately notthe norm anymore.
But I just love to see it.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Oh, so true, oh, thank you, Thank you.
Well, we try hard, we do, butthat's what you've got to do to
get you know, your face outthere and your brand, brand
exposure.
And you just want to be able tolet the community know what you
offer, because if they don'tknow you're there, then they
can't access your programs, youknow.

(28:15):
So it's all about, yeah, brandawareness, brand exposure and
getting your face out there.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I think all right, you've done your first year.
Like party celebrations, allthe things.
What's next for Wild Play Co?

Speaker 3 (28:30):
oh, gosh okay.
So, like I said, I'm alwaysthinking in advance of what's
happening down the road.
We've got a couple of things.
So for the rest of this yearwe're cruising on through to
Term 4 and I love how ourprograms change with the seasons
.
You know, like we're about tocome out of fire season.
For us, fire restrictions comeinto play soon and then we start

(28:53):
into our summer season andeverything changes, which is
beautiful.
But next year we've got we'repartnering with the Bendigo
Sustainability pardon me groupto run the Sustainability
Festival, which is a massivefestival that happens in Bendigo
once a year annually.
There's about 3,000 people,which for us is a lot, that come

(29:13):
through the gates and we'regoing to.
There's some really specialthings that we're going to be
doing in that space.
So that's really exciting inMarch next year.
But for Wild Play Cospecifically, look, we've got a
lot of programs now.
We run eight programs acrossfour different locations and
we're just trying to meet whatour yeah, we're just trying to
meet what our community needs,which is, you know, an ongoing

(29:38):
process, constantly evolving.
We've got the most beautifulstaff.
I was so worried about staff atthe beginning.
Nikki and I know I asked lotsof questions in the group about
how do you attract good staff,which was great.
Getting your first yeah, gettingyour first really fantastic
staff member is the hardest.
And then from then on I swearit's word of mouth because that

(30:01):
one person loves working in yourbusiness so much that they tell
their friends, and that's justhow it works.
And now we've got people comingto us saying we want to work
for you.
You know which is such abeautiful thing to hear.
So we've got beautiful staffand we're offering some
professional development now tosome of the early childhood

(30:23):
centres in Bendigo, because theVictorian Bush Kinder Grants
came out a little while ago andthere's lots of kindies that are
now putting in place their ownbush kinder programs, which is
fantastic, because the more kidsoutside in nature the better.
So we have some professionaldevelopment now that we're
offering around some of thosemore riskier play activities

(30:43):
that people sometimes find alittle bit more challenging to
deliver.
So hand tools and fire strikingand rope play, all those things
.
Yeah, so that's our plan fornext year is just to meet the
community with what it needs.
We would love to bring somethingto Bendigo like what's
happening up in Queensland, inLogan, at the moment.

(31:04):
So the community, theAustralian Institute of Play,
the community backyards, whichare fantastic Bendigo would be a
brilliant spot for one of those, and I've spoken with a couple
of people associated with that,and also the Vennie in Melbourne
as well another program that'svery similar.
It's challenging.
We need to, of course.
Being a for-profit business, weneed to team up with a

(31:26):
not-for-profit organization andthere are some fantastic ones in
Bendigo yeah to be able to getfunding.
So there's some greatorganizations in Bendigo that
are nature-based and that wouldlove to bring something like
this.
It's just resource.
You know resources.
We're resource stretched andthey are and being able to

(31:47):
dedicate time to something.
Obviously that's unpaid, but Iknow that our community would
benefit from it, so I wouldcertainly love to do something
like that moving forward into2025.
But yeah, we'll see whathappens.
It's exciting, though, you know, like this is just a start for
Wild Play Co.
One year in, and we're building, so we love it.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
It just again.
I just get so happy because itis so hard to build, it is so
hard to get that first year,which is often not a year, it's
often two, sometimes threedepending on life circumstances
and funding and jobs and whatnotbut to see you expand in the
first year so quickly and thento already be looking at
building and, I think, alsosomething we don't talk about a

(32:33):
lot we do mention it in thecourse but making sure you
diversify and I know everyonewas probably that, probably we
all got slapped in the face withthat during COVID but it's
really hard to just survive withjust programs.
You can do it, but you need tobe running quite a few programs
in different locations.
But if you can add whether,like you're doing PD, whether

(32:55):
you can add festivals, whetheryou can add you know we've done
online courses, I know otherpeople are doing printables and
resources it's a good idea tomake sure that you have a finger
in a couple of different pies,because we don't know what the
world's going to throw at us andwe don't know what's going to
change in the world of businessas well.
And making sure you're keepingon top of that, making sure

(33:15):
you're keeping on top of socialmedia, making sure you're
keeping on top of, like you said, listening to your audience and
knowing that, oh, you knowthere's a gap in the market over
here or actually we'veoversaturated this space.
You know too many programs inthe one week and that's not
working out.
It's really important to listento that.
That your families as well.
But I just love that you'realready doing it.

(33:38):
In your first year You'realready A expanding, b
diversifying and C looking atgrowth.
So huge kudos to you, courtney.
It's so good to watch.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Oh, thank you, Nikki.
Thank you.
I think that, yeah, you're soright, diversifying is the key
and maybe you don't have tostart the wild business course
going in with that mindset, butI think that it develops over
the course.
You know, and the number ofprograms that you run will be
dictated largely by what yourcommunity needs and what you can

(34:10):
actually deliver.
And then, yeah, there's so muchspace to think about how else
you can help your community.
And even if you are, of coursewe're all kind of location-based
.
But if you do offer things suchas online courses or printables
, then you become marketable to,you know, a much wider
community, and therefore that'swhere your social media

(34:30):
marketing becomes important.
But you're not just limited tothe people that are in your area
.
So there's lots of differentways and I think you know just
being able to build your courseand then you've got that
springboard to work from, andthen you've got that base of
your programs and you can thenjust, you know, flourish from
there with whatever interestsyou and whatever your market

(34:51):
says that they need.
So just being open-minded towhat that might be, because it
might change and evolve overtime.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
You know, with your business and that's okay.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
We're all learning and you know what an amazing way
to grow a business.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, I love, every year Vicky and I will get open
our you know little, just agreat big sheet of paper, and do
our goals big, hairy.
You know we call them big,audacious, hairy goals for the
next year and it's so goodlooking back on them.
You know we're like we weregoing to write a book and we
look at that this year and went,god, I couldn't think of
anything worse, absolutely not.
You know, in the podcast.

(35:25):
I remember the first or secondyear doing the podcast and
thinking that was such a scaryaudacious goal.
And now we're like, yeah, weonly do it now when we feel like
it, when we really get the callto really chat to someone.
Now, and that's just been thisyear that we've had that.
You know we're not doing itevery week anymore.
We've got other projects thatare exciting.
So I think that's the beauty ofsmall business you haven't got
somebody above you saying, oh,you need to go and do this

(35:48):
project for us.
It's what do I feel like doing?
What challenge do I want totake on?
What big, hairy, audacious goaldo I want to set or what
excites me?
Me and just follow that.
And I think for me that's themost exciting part about owning
a business.
What's your favourite part ofmoving over to owning your own
business?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think you've hit the nail onthe head.
I think it's having agency inhow you decide to spend your
time, like I've been luckyenough now Well, not lucky
enough.
I've built the business in away that initially, of course, I
run all the programs, but I'vebeen able to attract beautiful
staff and because we've run ourprograms now for a few terms,

(36:32):
we've, you know, got the moneybehind us to be able to pay
those beautiful staff and I'mcomfortable enough now with them
running quite a few of myprograms.
So I run the homeschool groupon a Friday, which my oldest
attends and we love, and then myother seven programs are run by
our wonderful staff.
So being able to step back andthen focus on the business side

(36:54):
of things and have space in myhead for all of these big, hairy
, audacious goals has beenreally, really amazing.
And yeah, just having agency inhow I spend my time, you know,
and of course there's things,there's deadlines you've got to
get done Logistically I'm theone that moves the trailers, so
I'm not on the ground on theprogram, but you know, to get to
different locations I've got togo and get the trailer, pick it

(37:16):
up and take it somewhere, andyou know there's nothing fun
about that, but that's just whathas to happen, you know, to
have these programs running atall these different locations.
So that's freed me up to beable to do that.
But then that's just a smallpart of my day, and the other
time I get to spend with mychildren you know, like we
homeschool my oldest.

(37:37):
Now he's just started his sixthand he gets to spend his days,
you know, hanging out with withmum, doing lots of um, lots of
fun things, and then coming tohomeschool group on a friday,
which is fantastic.
So, um, that's been, yeah, thatthat's been the best thing by
far being able to choose how Ispend my time and building the
business to a point where I canmake it flexible.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
I've got one more question for you before we move
over to our rapid fire questions.
Oh, yes, one of the things weget.
So we have everyone movethrough our, you know, through
the first year, and then theystart getting staff and then
they start letting go and youknow stepping back from the
program yeah, how did you goletting go?
How did you go of you knowhanding this baby the program?
Yeah, how did you go letting go?
How did you go of you knowhanding this baby that you spent

(38:23):
so much time and money andpassion and sleepless nights?
How did you go handing thatover?

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
And the tips for people.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Oh gosh, tips Tricky, okay.
So yes, it was tricky.
I started I handed over NaturePlay first, of course, because
that's the kind of the shorterprogram it's a little bit easier
and there's no risky playelements involved and then I
graduated to handing over bushkindy, which only happened this
term.
So I've run bush kindy up untilthis term.

(38:51):
What has helped tremendouslyand I've already said this, but
is your staff.
So I have the utmost faith andI just know that our staff do
the most beautiful job.
Of course, for the first, I'veworked with all of them in our

(39:14):
programs, and so they've learntfrom me and I've learnt from
them, gosh.
I've learnt from them becauseI'm no expert in this field.
So we've learnt from each otherand I think we've just all
developed this flow and thisrhythm and I know that they're
across safety, I know thatthey're across respectful

(39:36):
communication.
I know that they work reallywell together.
So of course Bushkindy runswith two staff and they actually
have all known each otherthrough different parts.
Bendigo is about 120,000 people, but we're not super big.
But of course a lot of themcome from an early childhood
background and they've allworked together before in
Bushkindy and so forth and soforth.

(39:59):
So I've just been able toattract the most beautiful
people who just uphold thevalues of Wild Play Co so
wonderfully.
That made it much easier to letgo Nicky, and we still go down
and visit, I think, especiallythe bush kindy that's on our
property, like we still go down.
Sometimes I take the kids andyou know, and we hang out and
that really helps as well.
But I just have faith in theirability to run the program,

(40:22):
knowing that they've done it nowfor quite a while.
We've all learned from eachother and I just know that they
can run it well and the feedbackthat I get you know like we get
the most beautiful feedbackthat oh gosh, we've got you know
so-and-so running it this yearand we just love them.
She's so lovely and she's kindand thoughtful and the way that
she, you know, deals with thekids and it yeah, I think that

(40:46):
really helps as well yeah, Iremember my first session, um,
when Lindsay, who's our SunshineCoast manager.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
That was when I was like ready to transition and
whatnot, and I was, oh you know,am I ready, are we ready?
And on the Lindsay was sickwhich she's never sick and three
separate children came up to mewhere's Lindsay?
I went, okay, they're ready,like you know we're ready, it's
so true, I get that on a.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Friday at homeschool group.
We've got one little girl sheshe's come from bush, kindy,
she's now in homeschool group.
And we've got one little girlshe's come from Bush, kindy,
she's now in homeschool groupand she comes up and she walks
straight past me and she walksup to Alicia, alicia.
She says I'm like, what aboutme?
So I mean and I think you'reright, that's when you know
you're like yeah, you've nailedit, these people are embedded in

(41:35):
our program.
These staff, they're gorgeous.
They're just as much a part ofWild Play Co as I am.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, They've built their relationships and they've
built themselves into thebusiness themselves.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
I think yeah, yeah, and they care, yeah, and our
company.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
I'm sure you're the same.
They wouldn't be the samebusiness without them.
Like they are Wild Play Co,they are Wildlings Forest School
.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
It's yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely, and that's you know
.
And it's hard to find thatstuff.
It's hard, but when you do, youjust you hold on to them, you
treat them well and you you makethem as much a part of it as
you can, because that's whatgives back to your staff, that's
how you make that littlecommunity and um and yeah, and
you don't want to have to go outand employ more staff, you want
to keep the beautiful peoplethat you have.

(42:22):
So you do your best.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Actually, I think you just nailed that too.
I think that autonomy and thattrust, to say A, I trust you and
the decisions you make, I willback and B that autonomy to plan
the program how they want to doit, because it's so.
What we do is so not justplace-based but people-based,
that you know, if wetransplanted each other's

(42:46):
programs in each other's areaswith different people, they
wouldn't work.
You know they might work butthey would be disjointed.
So to hand that over and beAlicia, you know, this is your
baby, or Lindsay, this is yourbaby, I think that's that
reciprocal trust that hopefullymakes them want to stay.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Oh it absolutely is, absolutely, because they all
come with these differentbackgrounds, like we do have
early childhood staff, but we'vegot staff that come from, you
know, wildlife management andecosystem backgrounds, which is
just gorgeous.
We've got a few of those staff.
Alicia's one of them and theknowledge that she brings, but
then also her ability to relateto these little people at the

(43:26):
same time, you know, and theyjust love it, and I love that we
have that diversity within ourstaff, because that's what makes
our programs all individual andall different, even
location-based, like our bushkindy at Sedgwick is different
to our bush kindy at KangarooFlat, because one's a pack-in,
pack-out, one's, you know,permanent on-site, but they're
run by different staff and theyboth bring something beautiful.

(43:48):
So you know, that's reallylovely as well.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Here's cheers to incredible staff.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Oh, so true, so true.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Are you ready for some rapid fire questions,
Courtney.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
I am Hit me.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
All right.
What's your favourite book ofall time and why?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
or what are you currently reading?
Okay, favourite book of alltime is a tough one, so I'm
going to go with what I'mcurrently reading.
I do lots of academic research,so lots of academic research.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
So always reading, you know academic articles, um.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
So fiction is just.
You know, I love it.
I grew up with my mum readingand I.
It is my escape.
I love sitting in the sunshinewith a cup of tea.
Reading a book is heaven, um,and I look forward to doing that
again one day when I get older.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I'm back there.
It's delightful.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
It's taken a while.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I can't wait I can't wait.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
But look, I go through stages where I can, you
know, dive deep into readingthree or four books, but then I
need a break.
I go through stages like that,but at the moment I have been
reading Taylor Jenkins' Read andI got.
The very first one I read wasMalibu Rising and it was just
gorgeous and I'm a big suckerfor a plot and I didn't think

(45:06):
that I would enjoy that book asmuch as I did because it was
actually based in America, inthe USA.
So I usually like to, I doreally love reading books that
are Australian based, but Iloved Malibu Rising.
And then, when we were onholidays, because I'd just
finished that book, I'm like I'mgoing to stay.
I love this author, I love theway she writes.

(45:26):
I'm going to read somethingelse of hers and I read Carrie
Soto is Back, which wastennis-based, and I started it
and I thought this is not for me.
This is going to be abouttennis and it was.
It was like solely about thiswoman coming back from
retirement playing tennis, but Ijust loved it.

(45:47):
It must be the way that shewrites.
Taylor Jenkins Reid, anyway.
So I finished that and it justreminded me.
And now, whenever I think aboutthat book.
It reminds me of being onholidays.
You know, when you readsomething when you're away on
holidays and it just takes youback to that time it's.
Whenever I think about thatbook, it reminds me of being on
holidays.
You know, when you readsomething when you're away on
holidays, it just takes you backto that time.
It's gorgeous, and I come backand I've just finished.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Daisy Jones and the Six, which they've made into a
little TV series as well, whichI can't wait to watch.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Oh my gosh loved that .
So that was like about a bandand it was written.
It was this really interestingplot of being like a
biographical, you know journeyabout how the band started and
ended.
But it actually wasn't real.
Daisy Jones and the Six is nota band at all.
It was like loosely based onFleetwood Mac, apparently.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Oh right, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Anyway, the way it was written was just beautiful
and I listened.
I actually listened to thataudio book.
I don't really usually loveaudio books, but it was the
perfect book to read as an audiobook because it had these short
snippets from all the differentpeople of the band and oh, it
was fantastic.
So loved, loved, loved.
Taylor Jenkins' read and she'sgot more that I'm going to dive
into as well, but that's justyeah.

(46:51):
That's where I've been in thepast few months reading those
books.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I have not read any of her books, so they are now on
my list.
I've just started a book clubback again with literally two
friends Love, but it's me tryingto get off my phone at 10
o'clock at night.
We've just finished readingOverstory, which two of us had
already read, but we thought,right, we'll just ease back into

(47:15):
book club, which was I loveOverstory.
It's heavy and it's dark, butit's all about trees and so I
just love it Beautiful.
We're about to read DemonCopperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
, which is all about the opioidcrisis, apparently.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Oh, that is deep.
You like some heavy stuff?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Highly recommended, but I haven't read it yet.
Yes, yeah, so I'll let you know, because I can't do too much of
that.
I can usually do one heavy, andthen I need two light.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Same, same, same.
I've got to be, and I've got tobe conscious at what I don't
know, like the time of year andlike where my mental health is
at.
I've just got to be reallyconscious of where I'm at with,
with what I'm reading, cause itcan, it, can influence, can't it
, a lot.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Absolutely yeah, I quite often.
We've got a beautiful CWA downin town and they once a term
have a book sale and I'll grab abag of 20 books for 20 bucks
and most of them are just light.
They're my in between the heavybooks and then I take them back
next term and just donate the20 back.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Oh, fantastic, that's a great way.
I love that idea.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Oh, it's such a great little community initiative.
I just it's hits my, hits me inall the great spots.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Next question when do you go, what do you do to reset
after a tough day, especiallywith kids Children it's a bit
harder to just, you know, dashoff somewhere it is.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
So we've been having some lately, just some,
beautiful afternoons.
It's winter, but we've had kindof 19, 20 degrees, which for us
in winter is really sunny.
So in the afternoons we've justbeen heading outside and we've
got a beautiful little outdoorlounge laying down, the kids
running around on the grass,playing and having a cup of tea,

(48:53):
taking our little afternoonplatter outside, which is
beautiful.
I definitely don't get a lot oftime away from the children and
that's you know, it's a lifestage.
They're young and that's youknow.
That's kind of where we're at.
But something else we love todo on the weekends to reset, is
we've got a big dam, so we oftenjust chuck a few things in the

(49:13):
back of the ute and head down tothe dam, and particularly in
summer, and the kids will have aswim and we'll lay down on the
picnic blanket and that's justour happy place.
I just love being at home.
I'm not a big person that lovesto, you know we do.
We do go out and you have tobeing, you know, a homeschooling
family.
You have to put yourself outthere and we do do that, but, um
, our favorite place is justbeing here we just love being at

(49:36):
home and enjoying our land, andwe live in a beautiful place.
Bendigo is gorgeous and we lovewhere we live it.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
It is.
Half of my family are there, soI will come and visit you one
day.
When I go and visit them nexttime.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Oh, always welcome.
We'd love to have you.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Can't wait to see your space.
All right, if you could choosejust one thing to change about
the education system, what wouldit be?
I would love to hear yourthoughts, actually, about
university.
Oh yeah, do you know what Ihave to be?
I would love to hear yourthoughts actually about
university.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Oh yeah, do you know what I have to be careful of?
When I'm working much, becauseno, no, no, no, you're fine, I
can totally speak about it onhere.
But when I'm at because I stillwork a fraction at the
university and when I'm there Ihave to be a little bit careful
about what I say, because youknow largely.
You know, being a homeschoolingfamily too, you know we don't

(50:26):
love the idea of curriculum andthat's part of the reason why
we've got our children not inschool.
So I think you know I became inthe end quite disillusioned
with teaching at a tertiarylevel because I could see the
amount of theory and of coursethere are some practical classes
you do at university.
But there was so much theorythat you know and knowledge that

(50:47):
you're that you're assessingthese.
You know 18, 19 year olds on,and and I know that from when I
was at uni that you know part ofthe reason that I was so
successful at uni because I didquite well.
But I had such a great memorythat I can memorise so much
stuff and I can spit it out onan exam, but being able to

(51:08):
practically apply it is a wholenew ballgame and that's, I guess
, why I've become a bitdisillusioned with teaching at a
university level is that I justfeel like we're feeding these
kids so much information andknowledge and yet what they
really need to do is be outthere in the field, practicing
on the job, practicing this kindof information.

(51:30):
So, you know, if I could changeanything about the education
system, particularly for ouryoung ones, it would be yeah,
just to take away the pressure,the expectation.
Yeah, just to take away thepressure, the expectation, the
requirements to to meet you knowall of these, these thresholds

(51:50):
that they need to meet, and justyou get back, to get back to
being play-based.
And I think you know, at atertiary level it's certainly.
If I could change anything, itwould be to move more to you
know what we do in a TAFEenvironment.
You know, I think what TAFEoffers is amazing, like, of
course they still have, you knowthere's assessments and so
forth, but it's so practical andwe've got some staff now, as I

(52:13):
said, who've come from that thatwildlife management kind of
course, and they are.
They tell me about all thedifferent camps they go on.
I think it's probably similarto outdoor education, nikki,
like the camps, and they're awayfor days doing this and they're
assessing the water bugs andI'm like gosh that you know that
just on the job.

(52:33):
Learning is um.
I think that's pivotal.
I think that's where the that'swhere the beauty is.
So I wish that university couldbe more, more like that, and I
hope in the future that we domove to that and that the gold
standard is not always, you know, being degree qualified, I
don't think that.
You know, I am myself, but Ijust I don't think that that

(52:57):
should be the be all and end all, and I certainly won't be.
You know, be activelyencouraging my children to do
that.
I will certainly support themin whatever their decision is,
but I just don't think the beall and end all needs to be
university.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
But don't tell them I said that- Do you know how many
of my friends who have donedegrees say the same thing and
the people it feels like theparents not always obviously,
but a lot of parents thathaven't done university degrees
feel as if that's still the goldstandard, and I think that's
why you know, once you've beenthrough it, you go oh, there's a

(53:32):
lot of illusion, I think, aboutthe prestige of universities
and I think, having done bothI've done TAFE and I've done
university and actually you know, other than that, you know, yes
, there is a level up, obviouslybetween a Cert IV and a diploma
and a bachelor degree andobviously with the research
behind university, but it's allthe same, it's all the same game

(53:56):
.
Really, it's just TAFE offersthe more practical, you know,
offerings and I think, gosh,when you look at the tradies
making the money they're makingand getting paid to go and do
their trade.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Oh yeah, it's true, it's true.
And you come out of universityand you still start at the
bottom.
You don't go into any, you know, generally speaking, depending
on the degree that you do, andfrom then on you've got to build
your own career.
So it's you know, it's up toyou.
I guess you know what level ofeducation that you want, but you

(54:33):
know your career is what youmake it and I don't think
necessarily that university isgoing to be the difference
between being successful or not,and of course success is very
individually defined beingsuccessful or not and of course
success is very individuallydefined.
But, um, but yeah, I wouldcertainly change.
Change that about the, theeducation system.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
I love that.
And last question where can wefind out more about Wild Play,
co.
Courtney?

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Oh, okay, well, you need to go visit our website,
wwwwildplaycocomau, and thenvisit our socials as well.
So we are on Facebook at theWild Play Co.
And likewise with Instagram,also at the Wild Play Co.
Yeah, that's where you can findus.

(55:18):
Drop into our DMs, say hello.
And yeah, we'd love to speak toanyone in the nature play
business if I can be of help toanyone in their journey.
We're only a year in, we'reonly new, but, um, my head's
still in that space, so it'skind of nice to be able to help
anyone that um is looking atstarting out.
I'd be only too happy to shareum our journey and any tips and

(55:40):
advice oh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
That's so generous and so generous and I think
that's I think that's the beautyof of this community as well is
that everyone is so generouswith their time and their advice
and and you know those tips andtricks about, you know whether
it's development applications orpermits, or you know I'm in
Bendigo as well.
How did you go with the council?
It's because sometimes it's socouncil specific as well.

(56:02):
How did you go with the council?
It's because sometimes it's socouncil specific as well.
So thank you so much for thatand thank you so much for
joining us today andcongratulations on your first
year of business and yourexpansion and your new ideas for
next year.
Can't wait to come and visityou and, from the community of
Bendigo, thank you for seeingthe gap and building something

(56:25):
that the community will enjoy, Iknow, for a very long time, and
that they'll see the rippleeffects of that for a very long
time.
So thank you, courtney.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Oh, thank you, Nikki.
Thank you for everything thatyou and Vicky provide for our
industry.
It's been a pleasure to meetyou guys and be mentored by you,
and I'm so happy that we cancontinue to be, you know, in
each other's lives throughsocial media.
And thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Our pleasure.
Go forth and play.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Thank you, Nikki.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
What a champion.
I just love how authentic andpassionate Courtney is.
Her success in business reallyis down to just getting stuck in
and her problem-solvingattitude.
She's not afraid to ask lots ofquestions.
She spends a lot of time andeffort on marketing.
She really listens to thefeedback she gets from her
families that join her in theprograms.

(57:21):
She clearly hires great staff,but she also trusts them to be
able to let them workautonomously and bring their own
unique flavor and skillset andto become a part of the business
themselves.
I honestly really believe thatanyone can start and run their
own successful business, butonly if they have that

(57:42):
problem-solving attitude andthat ability to take on feedback
well, the ability to seemistakes, failures and
rejections as just part of thatlearning and growth phase.
If you don't have those coupleof things, then starting a
business can feel really hard.
You know, if you take eachrejection personally, if the low
numbers one term makes you feellike a failure and you just

(58:04):
close your business, then no,you're not going to stick it out
.
So you need to be able to takethat as just feedback and then
solve that problem.
So if that's you and you'rekeen to start your own wild
business, then head on over toour website and check out our
free masterclass.
All about those barriers thatreally stop people from even

(58:27):
starting atraisingwildlingscomau and, until
next week, stay wild.