Honouring Land and First Nations Traditions with Tiffany Gesler from Sow & Nurtured

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicki Farrell (00:00):
Today we're chatting to Tiffany Gessler,
proud Aboriginal and Congareewoman who's a spaceholder for
women, children and mothers, andspecialises in early childhood
education, outdoor education,aboriginal health, midwivery and
women's business.
In this fast-paced world,tiffany strives to connect us to
our own nature throughhonouring the seasons and cycles

(00:20):
of the land and connection tocountry.
Be it exploring the bush with agroup of children or supporting
a woman in birth, tiffany'swork all comes down to a love of
holding space for families.
Last year, tiffany launched thefirst private bush school in
Toowoomba called Soan Nurtured,with a strong vision to bring
the community together tosupport well-being, getting

(00:41):
children outdoors, truth-tellingand reconciliation through the
land.
Can't wait to share thisepisode with you today, as Tiff
is also one of our Wild Businesscourse participants and it's
been such a pleasure to watchher and her business flourish.

Vicci Oliver (00:56):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative educationand stepping into the
wilderness, however that lookswith your family.

Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that
truly inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.

Vicci Oliver (01:18):
Where your hosts, Vicki and Nikki from Wildlings
Forest School Popping yourheadphones.
Settle in and join us on thisnext adventure.

Hello and welcome to the show Tiff.
How are you today?

Tiffany Gesler (01:29):
Good, thank you.
Really excited to have thischat with you.

Yeah, me too.
It's been in the in my mindanyway for a long time, so I'm
glad that it's finally coming tofruition.
But before I jump in, because Iwill go like a rabbit through
the gates, would you like tolead us in an acknowledgement
this morning?

Yes, I'd love to .
It's something that I reallylove to do, in a different way
to a lot of the other spaces,particularly if you're in health
or in your, you know,government or in meetings or
even at the schools.
It's like a little bit ticklessto get over in Dartmouth and my
pet peeve is that when you hearthem finish and they go and so

(02:10):
and they continue with theirmeeting and you hear the words
and so.
So I really invite everyone tojust actually slow down for a
moment and really heart, listento this one.
So, if you like, where you are,you're welcome to put your hand
on your heart, perhaps closeyour eyes down, and we're just
going to slow down, listening toour own breath and our own

(02:34):
rhythms and our own body, comingback to our own nature first,
so we can hold heartedly, listenand become aware of the space
around us.
May we all acknowledge thecustodians of the land country
you're on today.

(02:54):
May we learn their stories,learn their truth.
May you walk, grow, learn, workand raise your children on this
land, knowing it's sacred.
May we acknowledge the firstpeople of this land and how they
lived in harmony our mother,the connections to our mountains

(03:15):
, the trees, the waterways, theanimals, our totems and our
connection to the sacred.
May you now acknowledge thecountry in this moment, the wind
on your skin.
Depending where you are, youmight be feeling the warmth from
far the sky.
You might be hearing the leavesrustling around you outside

(03:36):
your window.
Even if you're inside fourwalls, you can still connect to
country, just bringing thatawareness that this building is
built on sacred ground below.
May we acknowledge theancestors and your ancestors how
you come to be here today.
May we acknowledge our children.

(03:58):
May they grow knowing theywhere they've come from.
May they know this land hasstories, strengths, wisdom and
sacredness.
May we bring reconciliationtogether for our future.
I personally want to acknowledgeIndigenous First Nation people.

(04:20):
Listening I send my love out toyou.
Any more about there.
I also want to acknowledge myGrungary people and where I've
come from, my maternal lineage.
May I make you proud using myvoice today, as I know you
didn't get this privilege.
And one big deep breath foryourself.
Before we come back to reality,open your eyes.

Oh well, teary yeah that was beautiful Teary.

So just really bringing that awareness to what
acknowledgement is, what are weacknowledging to the land is a
really beautiful way.
It doesn't have to be that indepth.
I just knew that various peoplelistening probably have a book
at a time.
But if you're doing it with thekids, you'd be doing what's
around you.
Normally the birds will startspeaking to you as they're doing
it, the wind picks up and youcan really feel the spirit

(05:14):
around us.
So really, when you're doingthat acknowledgement even if
it's a song or a dance orsomething with the kids, really
bringing that awareness for themto connect to the land.

It was so needed, isn't it?
I'm actually going to say Ihave a list of questions for you
, but I'm going to skip rightdown to the bottom and talk
about that need for thatrelationship with land.
Can you talk to us about thatand even your relationship with
your country, the country you'reworking on in this day?

(05:49):
What are your favourite thingsabout that country?
All of it?

Yeah, I'm really blessed to be living and I'm a
visitor to where I'm actuallyliving.
This is not where my people ormy ancestors actually lived.
I'm in Te Wumba, but I've beenborn and I've been raised here
and I've also birthed my ownchildren here.
So I'm a visitor to this spaceand so I really take on that

(06:19):
privilege and duty toacknowledge the land here.
So most of that is actuallyprobably caring for the land and
that relationship.
If I care for her, she caresfor me.
She's a refuge and a solace forme.
Growing up we were actuallydisconnected, without families,

(06:40):
from culture.
We, through history, which I'msure will go deep down later on
we're disconnected and movedfrom our land.
So while we didn't have cultureas such and we didn't get to
hear the song lines and thewisdom, it's in our we felt, it
in our body and our DNA and ourgrandmothers were very connected

(07:03):
to the land.
Even despite being taken, wewere brought up knowing and how
to support ourselves with theland and listening to the land.
My, my favourite memory that Ican first remember is my
grandmother.
We were sitting under theshi-yote trees and she got me to
listen, to feel you can hear italmost out west here you guys

(07:27):
are closer to the, to the saltmedicine, but out west here it
sounds like the ocean.
It does.
Through the shi-yokes.
Yeah, so I I have that, reallythat memory really embedded in
me and yeah, I think I is thequestion.
But yeah, pretty much thatconnection to the land and

(07:47):
relationship to the land is it'slike our own family, our own
mother, and that's not just forAboriginal people.
Your ancestors would have beenjust as connected to the land
and you're perhaps still feelthat relationship to the land
because it's in your DNA, inyour in your blood as well.
If we didn't live with the landand relationship with the land

(08:07):
before Woolworth's Coles and youknow we would have probably
starved to death because weweren't living with the seasons
and the cycles and knowing whento harvest and to grow, and so
we all have that connection.

It's, it's so important at how, if you're not
connected to land and to country, how can you go about, I guess,
taking those baby steps to take?
Because a lot of it is fear.
It's fear of wildlife, it'sfear of even just getting muddy
and dirty and you know what'sgoing to, what's going to hurt

(08:47):
me, which I think for you and I,I know I'm well beyond that and
I find comfort and solace beingon country.
But how do we go about,especially if it's cultural?
You know we have other culturesliving here, so they move from
overseas, and so it is a realdeep fear.

(09:09):
What kind of baby steps canthen people take to try and
break down those fears and thosebarriers?

I feel, starting in your own backyard,
everywhere sacred even in themiddle of Brisbane or middle of
Sydney, in that that cementareas and the big buildings,
it's still sacred ground.
You're still seeing Father Sky,you still got the sun, feeling
the warmth in your skin.
Hopefully there's trees andsome kind of nature around you

(09:38):
to connect with.
But yeah, even our own naturefeeling in our own breath.
We are nature.
We're not separate.
We've been told all along thatwe are disconnected and we're
separate to her, but we're notwe are nature as well.
So, depending on the, on thescale of things, of how anxious
you are, but just stepping intoyour own backyards and really

(10:01):
acknowledging that beauty aroundyou, and then, obviously, your
parks, even if it's not nativeslike, it's still nature as well.
And then, yeah, I would be justkeep pushing that threshold,
exploring even in your own car,driving in the car, you're still
surrounded by country you canconnect to, but obviously that

(10:22):
bare feet on the on the land orthat connection directly to the
land, a lot better than being acar.
But yeah, I'm just sharingdifferent scenarios that it's
all around us.
Even in my room right now I cansee the sun and the shadow of
the trees.
So this is always thatawareness, that knowing, already
around you.

I love that, that you're right and that we always
we are told by the media andwhoever else you know the days
that we are disconnected, butthat we're not as disconnected
as you feel that you can't helpbut be connected.
And I actually have neverthought about that.
I always just think of peopleas being disconnected.
But you're right, you can'tpossibly.

(11:04):
You can't possibly live hereand breathe the air and have the
sun on your back and yes thankyou.
Thank you for the reminder.
It's really poignant.
So we met through wild businessand you have started a
beautiful business, so anurtured.
Can you tell us about yourjourney to starting your own

(11:25):
business, and I'm particularlyinterested in what was your
inspiration to start?
And then, what was the strawthat broke the camel's back?
What was the thing that youfinally went?
Oh, speaking of, I've got ablue faced honey eater just
tapping on my window.
You were saying that it comesand says hello.

As soon as you listen.
Yeah, so it's that listeningand that connection looking
around awareness.

Yeah, they are always out here this time of
year in the banks here thatwe've planted out here, but I've
never had him come and tap onmy window before.
So thank you for that gift.
So yeah, I'm really interestedin the straw that broke the
camel's back, that made you takethe leap, because I think a lot

(12:15):
of people listening go, I would, I would love to, but, or you
know I could, but I can'tbecause of this.
So can you walk us through that, your story?

Yeah, so it's actually a story that started
from me working in earlyeducation, working in beautiful
spaces that allowed me to haveroles as an outdoor educator.
This was before it was trendingand before sustainability sort
of came a big hot word.

(12:47):
And I was scratching my head,thinking sustainability is
something that you know, mypeople did for thousands and
thousands of years.
You know, it's not justcomposting, recycle bins and you
know worm farms, so I wasreally lucky to be in a space to

(13:07):
give me that.
Yeah, I was really lucky, though, to be in this space where that
was heard, and so they gave mea role, and so my job was to
weave in sustainability but alsoAboriginal perspectives, and so
my thing was to bring thechildren outdoors to have this
relationship to the land,because if they're connected and

(13:28):
have this relationship and havethese memories, we're going to
have the caretakers of the landwhen they grow.
They're going to care and lovethis land, they'll want to look
after it, but if they don't havethis connection, they're not
going to know what they'recaring for or what they're
protecting.
So, yeah, my biggest thing wasto actually do a little bit.
Something left feel, but stillvery connected to that was

(13:51):
sharing how the land is caredfor and also the connection to
the land.
So I also worked in differentspaces, like community schools,
where I sort of had thesepockets of being able to do this
, but it still wasn't fullfreedom to be what I wanted it
to look like, while I'm verygrateful for these little

(14:13):
opportunities, yeah, I justwanted to be at bring the kids
to bush, because it was stillquite safe.
We only go to parks or, youknow, paddocks or something like
that.
So I think what really brokereally put the fire in my belly
to get to jump was probablyCOVID, seeing a lot of the

(14:36):
stress and anxiety, not onlybecause I was.
They worked in healthcare, soamongst all that happening,
everyone was really trying toget indoors and hide and I was
doing the opposite in I supposeI wasn't rebelling, but I was
like the anti-dotes to beoutside, to be connected to the
land, to fall this stress.

(14:57):
I mean also for our well-beingand our health.
You know, being locked up inhiding and in fear wasn't, you
know, going to support and Ireally set working in both
healthcare and in education.
I saw the kids really stressedand they were coming up with all
these different anxieties andgerm germaphobia sort of

(15:19):
feelings and yeah, it reallybroke my heart to see that.
So, yeah, the antidote wasgetting outside when we could
and yeah, it really, I think,wanting that freedom to do it on
my own.
But I did have those fears ofothers.
Probably you're having thatbecause I'm a single mum also.

(15:41):
So it was really making a bigleap to trust that it would all
work out for me and it did.
It just kept on working out,working out.
Then we were homeschooling, so Iwas doing it with kids in the
backyards of the differenthomeschooling families, yeah,
and then, like I said, it'ssacred even in your backyards.

(16:04):
But I really wanted to get thekids even more, you know,
connected to the bush, morewildlife, more that connection
and bringing in thattruth-telling and the Aboriginal
perspectives and caring forthat land as well.
So, yeah, I think that's prettymuch my story in a nutshell.
But what really brought thefire on Bailey?

(16:27):
Obviously it was always there,but it was the kids and seeing
them so disconnected and it'salmost like an obligation in a
way, that I knew that the landis such a beautiful space to
hold us into.
It's the antidote to thisdisconnected world that we live

(16:47):
in.
That's the go-go-go, busy theschedules, the be there, be over
there, be back here and justconstantly fast-paced world that
our kids are feeling, and weall know that the kids are
feeling it.
We only have to look in, whichis probably another rabbit
warrant to go down.
But the schooling systems andyeah, we all know most of us

(17:10):
listening and knowing that ourkids are not it's not working
and it's not working foreverybody, whether it's
Aboriginal people or anybody.
It's the whole colonised systemdoesn't work for all of us.
At the moment, in particularly,A you.

That's a beautiful segue because I wanted
to talk to you about.
We obviously are calledWildlings Forest School and I
can imagine that's a slap in theface to First Nations people
everywhere when it's such a.
It's a colony word, you knowit's been, it's a colonised
concept.
How can we, as Forest School oroutdoor leaders, whatever you

(17:53):
want to call us decolonise ourpractices?
Because it is waterfied, it iscolonised, we are working on
stolen land.
What are some of the ways thatwe can firstly acknowledge that
and start doing the work toreally break down those
practices?

Yeah, before I speak, I really just want to
bring that acknowledgement, thatall that awareness that I'm not
shaming when I speak this andthere's no judgment yeah because
I know this is a hardconversation or hard to hear
from people as well.
There's a lot of guilt, a lotof shame.
But if we don't have theseconversations or bring this

(18:33):
awareness, we're not changing,and what doesn't change doesn't
change.

We need to have uncomfortable conversations and
we need to eliminate the whitefragility as well around it.

Yes, and there seems to be people who only want
to hear so much, and then itgets too hard.
But that even even in itself,is a privilege.
But what I want the listenersto is to invite an understanding
that this is a responsibilityfor our future and for our

(19:09):
children's future.
And it doesn't.
It's not just for us Aboriginalus mob, who.
You're not doing it just for us.
You're doing it for yourselvesas well, because you're you're
being colonised, everyone's beencolonised in the Western world,
and it's not working and we canall come, no and, and the way

(19:31):
we live together is going tosupport everybody.
So to decolonise your spaces, Ithink, is really that coming
back to your own self anddecolonising your own stories.
We're not at that level yet,thinking of our spaces and our

(19:52):
children, we're just coming backto our own stories and knowing
where we came from.
So I would invite you to lookat your family history.
Where have you come from?
Where did you settle in insettles, know that we were the
first to settle in that space,but just knowing where you were

(20:13):
born and where you've come from,where your grand, probably your
grandparents, or even yourgreat grandparents, depending
how far, how young you are,understanding where they've come
from and your roots, becausethat's also going to benefit you
, knowing your story and whereyou've come from and then
knowing from them forward theprivileges.

(20:34):
So, while I know a lot ofthere's been, there's all sorts
of diversity that's come here toAustralia, to this is out there
now their home.
Some haven't come from goodbackgrounds either and some have
come here for a refuge.
I understand that, but there'salso is a big gap of privilege.
So, understanding and evenlooking around you, do you see

(20:57):
Aboriginal people in your Idon't know city or your way of
work.
How many Aboriginal people doyou see working there in the?
In this, I don't know, I'mthinking schools and hospitals.
In comparison, how manyAboriginal people do you see
working in these leadershiproles?
We need more of us as leadersworking in the spaces.

(21:21):
So just having thatacknowledgement that you're in a
privileged space, space whenyou have these leadership roles,
particularly in a space when itis to do with nature and
teaching and and being on a land, and then I would be looking at
okay, I'm privileged and I havethis opportunity.

(21:44):
What can I do with thisprivilege?
How can I support, what can Ido with this privilege, rather
than just unconsciously, youknow, going on about your
business without realizing.
So they're really bigconversations and really big
reflections on your own self andit will probably bring up some

(22:07):
yucky feelings.
But beyond those yucky feelingsthen comes action, awareness.
So it's not something you'regoing to have in a day be
decolonized, constant, constant.
Yeah, even for my own self, II'm aware that even I perhaps

(22:29):
would be privileged incomparison to mob up north who
are living in conditions ofpoverty, in third-rail
conditions and having all thesehealth, health concerns and
health issues and just depravedaffordability and deposition.
Yeah, financial freedom isanother one to reflect on.

(22:54):
Is that even my owngrandmothers weren't paid to
work, or weren't, so there's abig gap there and there's
probably more my generation thatare finally getting out there
to have this financial freedom.

But there's that missing of that generational
wealth.
Because of that right, Becauseyour ancestors weren't paid for
generations.
The generational wealth isbarely starting in this
generation.
So there's a huge amount ofprivilege that white people have
over First Nations mob becausethese generations weren't paid.

(23:31):
Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, that could be a big hard pill to
swallow for some people to hear.
But I'm not saying you know,you can still work on your
spaces.
I'm not.
There's only 3% of us in thepopulation.
We're not coming out to takeaway from you either.
But before reconciliation thereneeds to be truth and you need

(23:55):
to have that awareness and yeah,so then I would be looking at
how we can then reconcile andbring without the hero tapes,
without being a savior.
How can you walk with us thenmoving forward, knowing this now
I really think a good practiceI like to do because, like I

(24:17):
said, I'm a visitor here too, inthis particular space is when I
go to work on this beautifulspace that I'm in, I really
think about the people before mewho are on the land, the
children that played on the land, like I think of the women's
business and in, like you know,the harvesting, and I think of

(24:37):
the men doing their business out, because we've got a sacred
mountain we can see from ourspace.
So I'm really acknowledging andfeeling into what was happening
beforehand.
So when I'm then bringingchildren to play there, I've
just got that awareness that isa privilege even for me to be

(24:58):
there with these children.

Yeah, it's beautiful.
When I first came down to ourspace in Nambu, I remember
thinking that same thing.
Just I wonder how manygenerations of people in mob
have played here, you know, forthousands, of thousands of years
, and what a privilege it is tothat this space is actually even
still here.
I'm so grateful that there'sspaces left for children to play

(25:26):
like that, because gosh, I knowthere are in a city, brisbane,
like you said, there's so muchmore concrete than these spaces
are.
They are decimated.
So, yeah, I want to touch onagain, without you know, making
it about white saviourism, butpaying the rent and also the
ways that maybe is wild business, as you can pay the rent.

(25:49):
So one of the ways you couldpossibly do that is bringing in
an equity discount for BIPOCfolk.
Even in our staff meetings wetry and we're reading a text.
Every staff meeting we have, webreak down a chapter and it
might be on white saviourism orwhite fragility or, and it still
astounds me, and our team isfairly, I would say, in

(26:11):
Australia, which is a really,really sad thing to say a fairly
educated on First Nationsperspectives, and we are missing
huge chunks.
When our team are missing hugechunks of history, we're missing
huge chunks of understanding.
We're missing so much.
So, just just trying to bring inthose things where we're

(26:33):
educating ourselves and notrelying on First Nations mob to
be constantly educating us,because that's a big thing, it's
a big weight on everybody'sshoulders.

Yeah, so the colonisation decolonising is not
us mob, it's for you doing theheavy lifting, yeah.
I love that, though I love thatyou're in your meetings.
You're exploring differenttexts and paying the rent in
different ways.
There's many ways that you canpay the rent, and that could be

(27:09):
caring for countries signing upfor something that brings even
reconciliation through the land,supporting land care.
I don't know what you have indifferent spaces, but here in
Toowoomba we have working beesunder the council where we weed
invasive weeds with friends ofthe Scarpman.

(27:30):
Here there's so many things youcould do for caring for the
land, but then obviously there'slistening to diverse voices and
what do the elders want you todo.
You could be hearing the voicesof mob around.
How do they see it?
Because we're so diverse,there's like 400 or even more

(27:54):
languages and mobs aroundAustralia, so there'll be
different needs depending whereyou're listening from, for what
that means, and I love thatthere's discounts, which I have
been able to do as well, andalso been on the receiving end,
because, like I said, there'sthat gap, freedom gap between

(28:15):
finances or even just getting tothe location, especially if
we're in bushland that's notaccessible to the suburbs or the
cities there could be travel towhere you have to go, so having
those travel discounts as well,or even just putting on one
term, once a term you invitethere might be an Aboriginal

(28:39):
health centre or, I don't knowwhere you're living, there might
be even Aboriginal communitygardens, so you can invite them
to come out one term or once ayear, even something, and to
support those kids that probablyaren't getting those
opportunities, unfortunately.

That's a beautiful idea.
I can think of actually one inBrisbane.
I'm going to put my team on too.
I hadn't thought about that.
That's great.
It's so and so simple.
Like our staff are so keen Forany ideas like this.
If we can throw them out, wemight even start a list of ways
that we can pay the rent for aswell businesses, even as parents

(29:17):
.
Like you said, I love the ideaof just reconciling and
connecting with land, and givingback to the land is such a
simple win-win for everybody.
It's so nourishing foreverybody to do that together as
well.
I know other businesses thatdonate.
There's businesses that do 1%for the planet.
Will they do 1% to FirstNations, either businesses or

(29:41):
not for profits, depending onwhat business they're in?
There's so many ways you can doit.
We work with community centresas well, and just if there's
anyone in a community centrethat needs a day in the bush,
then they just come.
There's just ways that you caneven do it without having to

(30:01):
which is going to sound terriblereach into your pocket.
But I know when you're startinga business, giving cash is not
easy to do.
But you can give time.
You can give time, you can givespaces in your programs.
There's other ways you can giveback, so on that, some of the

(30:22):
amazing work you do is go out toearly years centres and
settings and show educators howto bring in Aboriginal
perspectives.
What are some of the ways thatyou love to see earlier settings
do this?

So walking into centres and also having
experience working in differentearly education spaces, the main
thing was a lot of tokenism andI think it's getting better.
But your perspective is goingto be different to Aboriginal
perspectives or what you thinkthe kids need to learn.

(31:00):
So what I'm saying is that,when you take away the whole,
let's sit down and learn aboutAboriginal people today.
Let's sit down and learn aboutAboriginal culture In particular
.
Let's do it because it's NAIDOCweek, or Reconciliation week.
And then the rest of the yearthere's crickets.
There's no conversations.

(31:21):
You've got the Aboriginal flagscome down and all the beautiful
displays come down for the restof the year.
So I've seen that in centres.
But I've also seen beautifulcentres that I've walked in and
I'm like, what do you want mefor?
Because you're doing abeautiful job.
It feels so culturally safe andI can tell that you've done the

(31:42):
work.
Your staff are doing the work.
You're doing it every day andit's embedded.
It's not just once a week kindof thing.
I think private schools areactually a space that seem to do
it just for NAIDOC week, forexample.
I think embedding it in ourearly education spaces is really

(32:03):
just talking about it everysingle day.
It doesn't have to be a sitdown.
Let's learn this.
It can be a question or anopen-ended reflection that you
can learn with the children.
You don't need to have theanswer.
So, for example, sake, I knowit springs coming around so you
might be starting to plant somenew things in your gardens, in

(32:25):
the spaces.
Also, you can together think Iwonder what Aboriginal people
before us would have beenplanting at this time of year.
What is a land doing now?
What's flowering now?
What can we put into the spacesthat reflect the season, what's
going on and what we can eatand grow?
What's going to benefit theanimals and bring in more

(32:48):
animals for us, like the beesand the butterflies and the
birds?
So you may not have thoseanswers, but you go together
with those questions and thekids are so pretty connected and
awesome and they'll have ideas.
Maybe they're doing cubbies andyou might just be thinking

(33:10):
that's not work, like it couldbe falling over all the time and
they can't work it out.
So you'd be like I wonder howthe architecture of shelter for
the first people that built here, what could they use?
Were they using bamboo or werethey using the wood from the
eucalyptus or the differenttrees around in the space?

(33:35):
That's a really good questionto ask, particularly if you've
got a lot of European treesaround.
You'd be thinking even furtherwhat's actually native,
particularly if you're in a park, those botanical parks that,
because the Europeans missedtheir home, they planted all the
plant, flowers and the treesthat they missed and I can't say

(33:59):
that for all parks, but a lotof parks are like that.
So, yeah, so just exploring withthe children, and it's embedded
every day in conversation, andyou probably don't think these
little conversations are doinganything, but I can tell you
from years and years ofexperience, the kids are really
taking it on and it's probably amore connected way for them to

(34:23):
learn, because they're learningthrough play, they're learning
through exploring with you.
You're not being an expert,you're sharing with the kids.
You're learning as well.
So that would be my advice forAboriginal perspectives in your
spaces and then yeah, that'sonly thinking learning side of

(34:43):
things and then you've got thewellbeing and the connection and
even your acknowledgments everysingle day that can be embedded
.
So, yeah, I think, juststarting, take it back a little
you don't have to have these biggrand programs or curriculum.
Most of it's just throughcommunication sorry,

(35:07):
conversation and connectingthrough that way.

Yeah, they're such little sponges, aren't they
?
They're little children.
They just like you said and Ithink you've nailed it when you
say that, when they're oncountry and their hands are in
the dirt or they're touching thetrees, and you're having those
conversations, Some of thethings that my children have
remembered from six, seven,eight years ago, from what I

(35:32):
thought, exactly like you weresaying, was a passing
conversation, and they've justsunk in because they were maybe
touching the sap or they werelaying on some paper bark and we
were talking about it, and Ijust think, gosh, it's
conversation, it's story, isn'tit?
And talking about the land likeshe is alive, because she is,

(35:52):
yeah exactly, and for mob wedidn't have books or curriculums
or schools being learnt throughthe conversations, through the
stories, through the songs andthrough the land.

So and like, how did we get from 80,000 years
ago to here with still havingthis knowledge?
Despite having you know thedisconnect and the things that
have happened to us in history?
We still have this deepknowledge despite all of that.

Yeah.

And that is because we spoke it through the
land, through our stories,through our people and our
elders that have this wisdomthat they pass on.
And, yeah, they're not sittingthere thinking, oh, today we
have to learn this ABC sort ofthing to make sure the kids know
.
Yeah, let me just visit mytextbook.

(36:46):
Yeah, it's through that embeddedcommunity which is a big
strength for us is thatcommunity and families and
relationships.
Yeah because we always get sortof like.
I noticed that we hear a lotabout the bad things that have
happened to us and theweaknesses, but we don't speak

(37:09):
so much about the strengths.
So yeah.
I'm really acknowledging thatthat is a strength of ours, that
, despite everything that hashappened, we are still here, we
still have this knowledge,perhaps from some spaces it's
just gone to sleep for a littlewhile, but it's still all within
us and that wisdom and thatthose knowledges are being

(37:31):
passed on just naturally throughour voices, which is why I feel
very privileged today to speakbecause my grandmothers couldn't
, even though I was quiteanxious to speak.
Sometimes it just comes blurtout because I know I'm not
speaking just for myself, I'mspeaking for my family and my

(37:53):
ancestors.

So yeah, that's so powerful it's.
And again, I think peopleforget, people choose to forget
or it's not in theirconsciousness, how long mob was
silenced for you know, when youcouldn't speak your language and
you couldn't practice yourcustoms and your rituals and the
dances and use language and,like you said, the strength and

(38:22):
I hate saying the word resilient, because no one wants to be
resilient forever and an entireculture shouldn't need to
continue being resilient andstrong like at some point.
We need to have these safespaces where you can just be and
not be strong and resilient allthe time.
But, gosh, the fact that thatknowledge has been so protected

(38:48):
and passed down is just a bloodymiracle and so grateful for
that.
Oh my gosh, I've got so manyquestions, tiff.

That's okay, I can yell about it all day.

So I'm going to drag us back to Wild Business
for a little bit, because I'dlove to know what the hardest
part of starting your businesshas been, or what the hardest
part of your journey.
So, whether it's a start orpost start up, what's the
hardest being and what do youwish you'd had more help with?

So I've very much feeling the gratitude for
having you guys to have thatsupport, because I felt very
alone.
Like I shared that I've beenworking in these spaces, in the
early education spaces inparticular, where I still felt
quite alone.
It was like dragging people tolisten or dragging the teachers

(39:47):
to understand that there was adifferent way.
So it's really been really goodto have people that understand
and have that same passion toget the kids outdoors and in
business, because we've gotpeople outdoors and getting out
there, but not necessarily inbusiness, and particularly here

(40:09):
in Toowoomba it hadn't happenedbefore in a private setting, I
mean like there was a fewdaycares I'm aware of.
So from what I'm aware, I'm oneof the first ones to do it
privately.
So Congratulations.
Yeah, thank you, and probablythat would have been the hardest
, I think, was that I was like,while I'm very proud that I was

(40:32):
the first, it also felt quite,you know, alone in all that
because a lot of the Toowoombapeople weren't 100%
understanding what it was goingto be as well, so it was sharing
with the families of what myvision was.
Some of you some of them hadheard of wildlings and

(40:52):
yourselves or had been down andtravelled down to you guys.

so Now that I have to travel, yay, yeah.

And most hadn't actually understood what exactly
it was.
So it took a bit to share thatwe're not a school or you drop
off and go.
This is actually a space thatyou are going to be a part of,
although I did have drop offprograms too.
But yeah, just sharing thatit's a different thing,
especially Toowoomba.
We while I'm very grateful forToowoomba, but it is feels a

(41:24):
little bit conservative.
Yeah, so we are still got a longway to go and unfortunately it
is a space where a lot of racismhappens and we also in a space
where a lot of the custodians ofthis land are not here today
because of you know they weredisplaced into missions or, you

(41:48):
know, had that we've had masquasaround around Toowoomba, so,
yeah, so something bigger thanme really wanted this to happen,
also for the land, forreconciliation and for truth
telling.
So, while it was hard, it, butthere was something bigger than

(42:09):
me that kept kept me going, keptme going despite all the fears
and the worries and definitely afew lows, as you're learning
that imposter syndrome andwondering what it even is going
to look like, because you havethe vision, but it's unfolding
and you're just really clingingonto that.

(42:30):
But it, yeah, it's so beautifuland it actually has worked out
even better than I thought.
Opportunities, yay, coming in,yeah, it's.
While I vision the kids outthere.
It's even bigger and epic.
And I know this is only justthe beginning and it will
continue to unfold and grow and,yes, I'm really excited to see

(42:55):
where else it's taking.
Now these foundations are beinglaid and I'm aware there's
another one that's just startedas well at Highfields.
So I'm really excited to seethat these Toowoomba kids are
getting these opportunities.
Yeah, it's really good to see.

The ripple effect of your programs and
particularly with your knowledgeand your stories and your the
history and your passion andpurpose.
I cannot wait to hear and seethe ripple effects of, like you
said, it's not just taking kidsout, bush, it is completely

(43:35):
going to change, I hope, theculture around and the stories
we talk about nature and theconnection that we all have with
nature and I honestly thinkthis is it will change what?
Not just Toowoomba, but thespaces where all of these bush

(43:55):
schools are popping up.
I do believe this generationthat's coming through are going
to protect our land better, andmaybe I'm an optimist and I've
raised colour glasses, but thetalk that I hear these children
talk about I never heard in aclassroom, never, ever heard
children talking about naturethe way that the children in
these programs do, and thatgives me such hope.

Yes, goose bumps , I feel that too.
And working with kids I'mprobably sharing my age a little
bit now, but I think it's goingon for decades nearly.
I've been working in earlyeducation particularly since I
was 17 and I don't think it wasjust my ignorance I actually do

(44:39):
see the kids changing andthey're feeling more.
They're more, even defiant aswell, like they're just so, yeah
, they want a world differentand then sharing that and you
can see that and they're keenfor this as well, with and, I
hope, without burden, which iswhat I'm trying to share yes

(45:03):
while we have these kids soconnected and understanding, if
they have this nature and thesespaces for solace, that the
burden will be less because youknow they're doing it in
relationship with the land andit's embedded in their lives
yeah.

What's the best part, then, about owning a
nature play business, let's say,other than that, other than
seeing that ripple effect?
How?
What about for you personally?
How is owning your own business, whether it was a wild business
or not, but particularly a wildbusiness?
What's been the best part ofthat for you?

Mostly freedom and flexibility.
Like I said, I homeschool, soI'm working hours like I used to
work shift work and nightshifts and nine to fives, and
now I'm still working hard.
But it's really working withthe rhythms of what I'm feeling

(46:05):
for balance myself and I share.
I also work in women's businessspaces where we really connect
to our own rhythms of our rooms,so I'm really mindful of you
know how much I'm giving incertain areas of my cycle as
well, which is just ripplinginto my home.

(46:26):
My home because I've got ateenage daughter as well, so I'm
able to be there with my kidsas a single mom too.
I think this would benefitanyone to not sharing that.
That's any different, but I'mjust saying that I've opened up
opportunity to be more presentin the home because this is
something that's lighting me upand also supporting, yeah, our

(46:49):
lives, and I get to call mothernature my boss, so I love that I
made something to say that I'mworking for her.
I'm not working for a systemanymore and I'm not working for
what's.
I'm working for what's workingfor us, that we're designed to
do, and, yeah, I really lovethat and it's supporting me and

(47:15):
my body and my mental health andyeah, it's working all night
long and then sleeping all dayagainst the cycle of what you're
doing.

Oh, isn't it?
I would 100% agree with youabout being able to honour your
cycle.
It's on day one for me.
You will often find me on thecouch, even on a work day.
Just, I just don't work or I'lljust do the things.
I'll follow the dopamine.
That feels okay and anythingthat's too hard.
It just just leave it for my dophase.
I'm in my do phase now and Iwill get through my lists.

(47:50):
Yeah, nice, and I'm powerthrough them.

When you gave me the invitation to come talk, I
actually looked at what I wasgoing to be so I could easily
look at last week when I was inmy winter, but yeah, I made sure
I wasn't.
So that's honouring myself andif I'm example that I'm hoping
what I'm doing now will examplefor my children.
Yeah, because we talk aboutburdens, about, you know,

(48:20):
supporting the land and thatconnection, but I think the
system's already burning.
It's already a burden.
So we're really actuallysupporting by doing this work
because you know, these systemsare already a burden on our kids
when they want to want them inthere nine to five and yeah
working.

Yeah, that's such a patriarchal system, the nine
to five.
You know, men's testosteroneworks in a 24 hour circle but,
women's doesn't to expect us todo that every 24 hours when,
like you said, our winter, weneed to recover and recuperate
and heal and cleanse, and butgosh, let's get us in a new

(49:02):
phase and we'll move out, and solet us.

And that's honouring that nature and us,
and you know it ripples on tothat wanting to support and be
out and out you know the outernature and the season, yeah,
brings that awareness yeah,exactly decolonising ourselves.

So good, so let's go, because it's.
I love that if you've got wecover everything with us.
It's like nature and yourbusiness.
But also homeschooling can youtell us about again?
Similarly, what was the thingthat made you take the leap and
then what's been the best andhardest part of your
homeschooling journey with yourfamily?

yeah.
So I haven't alwayshomeschooled so, but always
thought about it working ineducation.
I knew that the system, thepublic system, wasn't going to
work for my children and Iactually still sent my daughter
there for her first year inprept, despite those big
feelings.

(50:03):
So I haven't always thought youknow, this is what we're going
to do.
But she shared with me throughher behaviour, in her, her body
and her big emotions that itwasn't going to work.
And all that time of my life Ijust remember how hard that was,
separating from her every day,knowing that she wasn't in a

(50:26):
space that she was thriving.
So she was my biggest teacherin that.
But we did actually find alearning community that I did
work for as well in the end, abeautiful space where, yeah,
that's all about having us butyeah, things changed things
obviously.

(50:46):
Yeah, just being mindful therethat I'm not dissing anything,
but the system still creeps inin those spaces too, and while I
have so much gratitude for thisspace, it equally didn't end up
supporting my son either, as hereally craved that land and
that connection outside.

(51:07):
So if he had big emotions it waslovely that the teachers would
just know that if he climbed upthe tree you leave him alone,
he'll be back down in five, 10minutes.
So he had those beautifulteachers and spaces that allowed
that there.
But unfortunately that didchange a little bit.
So I was questioning, whilealso questioning my own ability

(51:29):
to jump into working outside,working for myself.
It also unfolded all at oncewith a big kick up the bum again
, having my son now teaching methat this space also wasn't
working.
So, and that's our personalexperiences, I understand all

(51:49):
children are different, so Iwish we homeschooled earlier
because I've absolutely loved it, the freedom and.
But even like learning throughtheir interests and I would say
we're probably more unschooledbecause we don't particularly do
anything as far as, as far asyou know, workbooks or anything

(52:11):
like that.
We're mostly learning throughthe land, learning through our
garden, backyard garden.
So community is a big thing forus and it feels like my day in
my cup.
So I'm learning and feelingthat connection all along as
well, and to see his body soften, like like I get emotional

(52:35):
sometimes talking Hopefullywon't get too emotional, yeah,
but I just think about it.
So he would have and it's sotense and then he's a, so his
body so soft now and he's justsuch a different kid.
Honoring him and what he'swanting to learn and what he's

(52:57):
wanting to do, and and thefriendships and the community
that we have also have been apart of homeschooling as well
has been absolutely beautiful.
So, yeah, I really am sograteful for that, for this
opportunity to do that for himand in my yeah, just for our

(53:19):
home as well.
Yeah.

Just being able to honour your culture, like
your children and family need, Ithink, is, you know it, the way
our schools are set up.
You know we talk aboutembedding First Nations
perspectives but there's no wayin a curriculum Sorry, there is
a lot of ways we can, butthere's no way we can get kids

(53:48):
on country like they need to be,to, to be in touch with culture
like they need to be.
you know, like it's no, it can'tprovide that in a classroom and
again, I know that's aprivilege, I know that's like a
lot, of, a lot of people,whether that's resources or time
or whatever.

(54:08):
I know that's a huge privilege,but it's such.
We're doing such a disserviceto mob keeping kids in class or
to any child, but particularlyto mob by keeping kids in
classrooms.
It's just, it's not a naturalway of being anyone.

And that's why you see kids in particular mob
and communities are strugglingin schools because, yeah, they
know deep in their deep in theirblood and their bones that it's
not, it's colonisation rightthere that you have to be
schooled and in our generations,before we're taken from their

(54:46):
families to be schooled, so it'sreally intergenerational stuff
there.
I do see some little pocketshere and there of hearing of
programs, you know, taking thekids out and I know,
particularly here in Tuumbathere's a boys group that go out
and do things and a friend ofmine works up North in a

(55:07):
community school and they'reworking hard to get by the river
each day or certain times ofthe week through their schooling
.

Yeah, it's different, different things.
I know Benny, at Newsoflexi.
School does a lot of work.
On country too, there arepockets, but it doesn't seem
like it's in the mainstreamschooling system either.
It seems like you have toalmost extract the children out
as well, which you know is notnecessarily bad thing far better
off on country and beingextracted, but again, it's that

(55:41):
separation from community that'shappening then as well.
It's almost.
Yeah, there's a lot of workthat needs to be done, but
hopefully, if there's morepockets like this, setting
examples too that we did alittle bit of work with kids at
risk here.
And you know there's only oneor two mob kids in the community

(56:06):
here in that group they thrived.
Oh my God.
They were so skilled and soconfident and just flourished in
this program that we ran and Ijust went gosh.
This is like I know.
The reason they're in thisprogram is they're not feeling
that success in an academicclassroom.
But look at this young manthriving and stepping up and

(56:30):
leading and his peers looking upto him.
Why can't we do this?
There's no reason we can't dothis in a school like we have so
many beautiful schools withbeautiful grounds.
It drives me batty.
I can't imagine how batty itdrives you guys.

Let's just put them all in a small classroom
and control them this way, butthen you're putting out fires
the whole lesson because they're, you know, the bounce on the
wheels.
Yes, yes, I don't understand howit's not.
And I'm not saying don't sendyour kids to school necessarily.
They're just meaning thatthere's better ways, that you

(57:05):
know we've been schooling andthe curriculum's not really
changing that much Like I knowthat a lot of the curriculums
look very much the same likeeven from when I went to school
and it's just not changing.
And I think I can't rememberthe statistic, but I think was
it 10 years time, and only youmight know this bit more than me

(57:26):
.
10 years time is only going tobe like 80% of the jobs are
going to be not, not what wehave today and what we trained
for, so there's going to bedifferent kinds of jobs.
I think perhaps not the quiteright statistic there, but you
know where I'm going.
Is that you know?
you know we're sending thesekids there for something they
probably won't even need,because there's all these

(57:48):
different jobs that are bechanging.
No, because AI will be doing it, yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's going to be the skills that, yeah, the
skills that machines and AIcan't code for, isn't it?
It's going to be community andrelationships and leadership
positions that these, yeah, it'sgoing to be really interesting
and I hope our schools can keepup, and I was speaking to
teacher friends that they arecurrently not keeping up,

(58:19):
particularly with the AI at themoment, but I'm hoping to get an
AI expert on in the next,hopefully, month or so, because
that's fascinating to me.
Yeah, I'm intrigued?
Yeah, I'm intrigued too.
I'm mainly intrigued because Ithink that it could open up so
much.
It could explode our educationsystem very quickly, I think.

(58:42):
And if it does that, it opensup more creative jobs, and jobs
that people want to do ratherthan need to do or feel like
they should do, and hopefullythat's that could be really
great for humanity.
If that's where it goes, yeah.

Yeah, if it stays in there, I'm happy.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But when you start intellect,intellecting, our actual like,
bringing intellect into our own,you know, bodies and health and
even our land, then that'scoloc.
That to me is colonizing aswell.

(59:19):
I worry a little bit, a bithesitant, because of that.
But, yeah, I'm pretty openminded too, so open to change
because, yeah, the way we'redoing it now is not working.

No, but it does seem like we need a bit of an
ethics board for these.
Yeah, ai, that's kind ofrunning ahead of everyone that
created it too.
But yeah, hopefully we'll findout a bit more when I'm waiting
to hear back if we can book thisperson in, but we'll see how we
go.
Oh, tiff, I could honestly chatto you all day, but let's move

(59:56):
into our rapid fire questions.
So what's your favorite book ofall time and why?
Or podcasts, or anything, orwhat are you currently reading,
if it's too hard to choose?

Tiffany Gesler (01:00:07):
I have books everywhere.
I start reading them, startreading them, put them down and
start another one.
So just thinking favorites, I'mjust going to say Victor
Steveson's Fire Country is a bigone for me, with that caring
for country and the old ways.

(01:00:31):
I think we very quickly forgotabout the fire and all that was
going on in Australia at thetime because then all of a
sudden, we had the floods.
But I do feel the season isshifting again and before we
know it, we have all this fuelfor fire again because we've had

(01:00:52):
the floods and the rain,particularly here in Queensland,
I mean.
So I think it's something thatwe need to be mindful of again
and I know that there's thesebeautiful programs actually
happening with a caring forcountry through these old ways.
That was probably a big one forme.
Long man by Bob Randall is abig one that really impacted.

(01:01:19):
I haven't heard of that one.
Oh, he's a beautiful man fromout I think it's Bundoa out that
way, speaking of the spirit ofthe land.
He was a stolen generation andI think it was his father who
was a white man and his motherwas Aboriginal.
So it's that journey that Iresonated with having walking

(01:01:40):
the two worlds of the white andyour Aboriginal family and
coming back together andreconciling for yourself.
So that was a big one, and hespeaks so beautifully about the
land and that connection andeven particularly when you've
been disconnected, how it callsyou and you feel it and how the

(01:02:01):
land remembers you.
Yeah, I think I'll leave it atthat, because I could probably
talk all day about all thedifferent.
So I just really urge todiversify your podcasts and your
books that you read, thatyou're listening to different
voices, particularly Aboriginalvoices here, because we're so

(01:02:22):
diverse, even in our own mobs,but we have so many stories
about the land.
So, yeah, we're very lucky thatwe've got a lot out there at the
moment.
But even reading differenttimes, not just the modern ones
today.
Go back and read ones from the90s and the 80s and it's really

(01:02:43):
interesting to see theirspeaking pretty much exactly for
what the modern authors arespeaking today.
It's very much the same.
And so that's a good thing, butalso a bad thing, because you
think well, that's a 30-year-oldbook and nothing's changed.
So yeah it is still really good, good to listen and read,
though.

Nicki Farrell (01:03:04):
I'm going to put Songman on my list for sure.
Yeah it's one thing.
We try and keep our librarynice and diversified because
it's so easy.
Again, Sunshine Coast is verymuch like Tornbiter.
We're white conservative here,so it's really important for my
family just to have differentbooks on the shelves and
different voices as well.

There's so many beautiful children's books too
that are coming out, which I'mso glad to see that seeing it in
mainstream.
Going back to Bob Randolph, hehas a documentary as well called
Carneting, and he has somechildren's books as well.
I love how he speaks about theland that before Cleopatra we

(01:03:47):
were here living in harmony.
Before Jesus watched the earthwe were here living in harmony.
So it really gives you thattimeframe of how ancient we are
and how a lot of the Europeancountries get traveled and
explored and really honoured fortheir buildings and their land
and all these differentmonuments.

(01:04:09):
But here we have thousands andthousands beyond.
Even in Tuomba we've got a6,000 year old site and that's
just one example Such ancientthings here in this very land
that we can homeage to.

Yeah, and honouring it.
The caretaking that hashappened for this country to be
in the state that it was whenwhite man came and colonised is
phenomenal.
The beauty and the agricultureand the fishing and the way that
it was set up for longevity andfor generations and generations

(01:04:53):
is just something that's notcelebrated enough.

No, it's protected.
We've got mining companiesblowing up sacred caves and
sites and paintings.
But then Nostradamus when wasthat, I can't remember and
everyone in the world wasraising a billion dollars to

(01:05:17):
save it.
Yeah, and it's like how manyhundred?

was it.

And actually Ella Bencroft.
She's an amazing, strongBungalow woman that speaks a lot
for community and particularlyfor mothers and families.
She's actually over in Europeat the moment and speaking the
same how it feels so odd toalmost like really so in all of

(01:05:46):
these places.
I think she was in Greece, forexample, but she's like yeah,
it's cool to see, but like it'snot in comparison to what we
feel here with the ancients here.

She's an amazing storyteller, isn't she?
I follow her too.
It's just her way with words isjust magical.

Yes, she's doing a beautiful, amazing work for
charity, for mob.
So, yeah, getting.
I actually was down there inFebruary and was really grateful
to be able to be a part of that.
There was just a camp of I thinkabout 120 women and oh, that
was the first time I've everfelt the most loved, I suppose,

(01:06:29):
as far as how what communitycould look like and just the
passion for the mothers and thewomen there.
Yeah, it was beautiful and evenhaving, because a lot of the
attendance like she givesscholarships for Aboriginal
women but a lot of the attendeeswere actually white women, but

(01:06:50):
just to see so many womencheering who were non-Aboriginal
, I've never felt that beforewhen they were listening to her
and her mother, her mother's,bronwyn Benkvot, who has
beautiful kids books, actually,yeah, I just never, felt that
before that that monitoring andexcitement and support.

(01:07:12):
So, yeah, someone that I reallyrecommend supporting her charity
actually.

There we go.
You're looking for places topay the rent?
Then there's an amazing placeyou can send that love.
Yeah, the returning, it's cool.
Mm.
Oh, I love that.
Yes, here's to more strongwomen and more voices being
heard, mm, mm.
So, on that, where do you go ifyou're happy to share and

(01:07:43):
obviously you might have yourspaces that you don't want to
share as well?
Where do you go to reset aftera tough day, or what do you do?

Yeah, that would be going out on country and it
actually is a space that I workwith the kids here in Tumbabu
because I actually care for thatspace of land as well.
So I have that relationship tothere.
If it's not there, I'm normallyfinding just a really big old
tree to anchor with and, like Isaid, the backyard, like I'll be

(01:08:15):
getting my hands in the dirtbecause reality sometimes I
can't get in the car and runaway, so I'm just putting my
hands in the dirt, putting someweeds and carrying for the space
of land I have where I live.
And if things are really big,we're getting in the car and
driving six hours west back ontocountry along the Maranoa River

(01:08:36):
.
So, yeah, we go out there whenwe can.
Unfortunately it's hard to getout there being so far, but when
things are big we go out therefor that solace and that
connection and that support.

Amazing how land can just can hold you like that.
It knows, I swear it knows whenyou need to be held.
If you had to choose just onething to change about the
education system, what would itbe?

One.

Yeah, we could have a whole podcast.

I actually think , well, it's gonna say, get them
outside, but I think itactually would be just listen to
our kids and give them voicesbecause they have.
They're amazing, beautifulchildren that have voices that
are not being heard, and there'sobviously hierarchy and egos
and control, but if you'relistening to their kids and

(01:09:32):
what's on their hearts, they'regonna feel heard and supported
and loved.
So, yeah, just love on the kidsand connecting.
I've worked in these spaces andthinking things are happening
in a room and it's getting big.
My first thing to go to is,okay, let's sit down and connect

(01:09:53):
what's going on for these kids,cause it's more than what
you're seeing in their behavior,some things that they're
needing to hear or say or yeah.
So that's why I actually dohave a soft spot for those kids
that get labeled naughty or getlabeled with these behaviors,
cause it's usually that they'rejust, yeah, needing that space

(01:10:15):
to be held and heard.
So, yeah, including our ownchildren in our own home if
you're not in those spaces?

I'm saying something about the children
that don't get the most love arethe ones that actually need the
most love, or something alongthose lines, or the ones that
are almost pushing you away, arethe ones that actually need the
most love.
And, last of all, you've gotmore than one business, so where
can we find out more about yourwork or works?

I wish I had time for studying this website
stuff, but I haven't got thereyet.
So you'll find me on Instagramand so a nurtured or Facebook
and if you are interested in anywomen's business kind of things
connecting to the nature of youand your cycle of you and the
seasons of you, I work in abeautiful space here in Toomba

(01:11:11):
called SheeGathered and you canfind me under woman nurtured,
where I used to speak a littlebit on my so A Nurtured page
about all this birthing andbleeding but the audience wasn't
ready for that right beside apost about being in good school.
So I recognise that wasn't whatthey wanted to hear, so I

(01:11:35):
separated the two.
Yeah, even though I find themso interconnected and related
working as a midwife, it's sointerconnected and related.

They are, aren't they?
But yeah, yeah, I feel you.
I feel like that's how I cameto this.
Work was through birthing andparenting and, yes, I was a
teacher before that, but I was adifferent person.
I was a different teacher.
Yeah.
I know what you mean.
It's all connected.
We can't separate parentingfrom children, so we can't

(01:12:08):
separate bleeding and birthingfrom children, but one day it'll
all be together because we willunderstand Saying that I don't
know.
We've separated out tobusinesses because it was almost
too much to have business andprograms together as well.

(01:12:29):
It's such a funny space, theonline space, where you have to
niche yourself.
It's really hard to show, yeah,but I find it really
frustrating because, no, humansare just one-layered.
We're all such layered,multi-faceted beings and it's
pretty frustrating to have tosplit your time and effort and

(01:12:52):
energy into two separate spaces.
It's just you and me behindthere, behind these spaces.
Yeah, exactly.
I agree, funny little space, andso it's the best way to get
ahold of you.
Say, if you're an early yearseducator and wanting to bring
you into their space, whetherthat's for consult or for them

(01:13:13):
to come to you for excursions,what's the best way for them to
get ahold of you?

Oh, so yeah, I have an email that you can reach
me on Through.
Instagram.
Yeah, you'll be able to find meon Instagram or Facebook, and
then I do have an email.

Beautiful.

Hello, so I'm at nurturecomau.

Beautiful.
Highly recommend absolutelydoing that.
If you're looking for someonein the Toowoomba region, tiff's
your gal, she's an amazingpractitioner and so passionate
and purpose-driven, and I justcan't wait to see, having
followed your journey Obviouslynot before you started while

(01:13:47):
business, but if your very firstemail to us was just a giant
yes, I was just like.
I want to see where you are inone year and five years and 10
years, and I just know that youbeing in this space and doing
the work that you're doing isjust going to make such big
change.
So thank you, for I know it iscarrying that burden because I

(01:14:08):
know it can be a burden andthank you for that, because it
is making change.
I can see it already.

Thank you.
Thank you for seeing me andsupporting, and it was really
kind of a big deal for me totalk to you today, because I
listened to you guys when youfirst started the podcast, and I
think it was at 2020.
I feel like I've been listeningto you for a while.
Yeah.
And I actually, I think COVID,yeah, yeah, you guys sort of
like through the podcast, wereeven supporting me in my journey

(01:14:38):
of going homeschooling and notfeeling alone, hearing these
people out there that all havethis passion for the world and
the kids and nature, and so,yeah, thank you as well, and
Vicki as well, thank you forsupporting me in my wild
business.

I love it.
Honestly, I say this probablyevery week, but I love this part
of my job because of that, likeI just I don't think any of us
realise and I don't think youwill even see the impact that
you're having already for years.
Like when we started thepodcast a couple of years ago,
we would honestly, we were doingit for ourselves.
It was COVID and we were likewhat can we do?
And we want to speak to thesepeople, what's the best way to

(01:15:20):
do this?
And but we get this like thisdelayed kind of gratification,
but like the delayed impact Iguess is so far reaching and
it's gosh.
It makes it so extra worthwhilebecause I just have loved
spending this time with you.
But I also know that there'llbe someone listening right now

(01:15:40):
that in five years will go thatpodcast that I listened to with
Tiff.
Either maybe take the leap or,you know, thought I'd try
homeschooling or we booked herand now we have this ongoing
relationship to land or likeit's just.
It blows my mind and I'm soexcited for it.

Yeah, I love that, thank you.

Thank you so much for joining us and you can
check out Tiff at so Un nurturedand all the spaces.
Please support her work and wecan't wait to.
We'll have to get you back onagain because, like I said, I've
got another.
Brazilian question.
We'll break that up to anotherepisode.

Yeah, I just want to send some thank yous and
love out to the listeners too,knowing that what we spoke about
is a really big conversation.
So thank you for doing the workin this city.

It is.
There was a lot of layers inthere, even just for schooling.
I often don't reflect untilafter the episode and I go oh
gosh, I'm sure I make a lot ofpeople uncomfortable, but thank
you if you're still here.
Yeah, because it is.
It's, you know, it's all of ussitting through uncomfortable
conversations that is going tomake change for the better for

(01:16:47):
everyone not just the chosen,you know, few billionaires.
Yes.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I hope you've had a greatrestful couple of weeks and that
your programs are beautiful andblossoming, and it's such a
beautiful time of year to getback on Country too.
So yeah, until next week, staywild.

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