February 19, 2024 • 43 mins
It's time to gain the confidence to flex your 'uncomfortable muscles' and become an agent of positive change in your family's life – because when it comes to sex education, silence is not an option.
This week we're chatting with Cath Hakanson, mother, sex educator, and founder of Sex Ed Rescue. Cath is all about helping kids and parents have better relationships through empowering conversations. With the right tools, self-confidence, and strategies, sex education can be less threatening, more natural, and much easier.
Cath is a firm believer that if kids can talk to their parents about sex, they can talk to their parents about anything!
In this episode Cath shares:
0:00 Empowering Parent-Child Conversations on Sex
11:38 Talking About Families, Relationships, and Pleasure
19:34 Open Conversations About Sex Education
30:36 Resourceful Parenting and Sex Education
41:34 Importance of Open Communication About Sex
From conversation starters to tackling sensitive subjects like pornography and consent, Cath's knowledge will help you feel supported and ready to make these crucial conversations a natural and normal part of your child's upbringing.
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2. Keen to find your purpose in 10 minutes? Download our FREE treasure map to find your passion without compromising your educational values.
3. Want to know how to craft an epic outdoor program that has parents and directors lining up to enrol? You need Nature Play Now our $57 Workshop and Bundle series (people are saying this is a steal!)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicki Farrell (00:00):
This week we're chatting with Kath Hakanson,
mother, sex educator and founderof Sex Ed Rescue.
Her life's work is all abouthelping kids and parents have
better relationships throughempowering conversations.
She provides parents with thetools, self-confidence and
strategies to make sex educationless threatening, more natural
and much easier, and believesthat if kids can talk to their
(00:22):
parents about sex, they can talkto their parents about anything
.
Let's chat to Kath.
We'd like to acknowledge thetraditional custodians of the
land on which we record todaythe Kabi, kabi and Gabi Gabi
people.
We recognise their continuedconnection to the land and
waters of this beautiful place.
We recognise Aboriginal peopleas the original custodians of
(00:44):
this land and acknowledge thatthey have never ceded
sovereignty.
We respect all Gabi Gabi elders, ancestors and emerging elders
and all First Nations peoplelistening today.
Vicci Oliver (00:55):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative educationand stepping into the
wilderness, however that lookswith your family.
Nicki Farrell (01:04):
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that
truly inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.
Vicci Oliver (01:18):
We're your hosts, vicky and Nikki from Wildlings
Forest School Popping yourheadphones, settle in and join
us on this next adventure.
Nicki Farrell (01:25):
Welcome to the show, kath.
Thank you so much for joiningus and for those that are, you
know, listening along, I do liketo make this a bit personal.
Kath has been so flexible thismorning because we had a
last-minute neighbourhood notgoing to say emergency, because
that's very dramatic, but Ialways find that people we
attract to our podcast and intoour world so compassionate.
(01:45):
So thank you for yourcompassion and understanding
today.
How are you today?
Cath Hakanson (01:49):
Hi, nikki, and thanks for inviting me along.
Oh look, I sat here thismorning, got the kids off to
school, sat at my desk andstarted typing into Facebook,
talking to people all over theworld, and in the background
I've got this gang of juvenilecookaburras.
I live in the inner city and wedon't get cookaburras, and it's
like this gang move in for acouple of days then then they
(02:09):
disappear.
So I'm sitting here typing withall these beautiful cookaburra
stuff in the background, livingin the inner city, and it's just
such a great start to the day.
So I'm really glad to be heretalking about my favourite topic
sex.
Nicki Farrell (02:24):
Me too, because, as I was saying before, I'm an
HPE teacher.
So and this is one of thereasons I went into high school
and PE was for actually thehealth component and the
relationships component.
So this is something I'm superexcited and passionate about.
But as a business owner too,I'm really curious to find out
how you ended up here with SexEd Rescue.
(02:45):
Can you talk to us about that?
Cath Hakanson (02:48):
Oh, it's ironic.
I often joke to my peers.
If I wanted to make money outof sex, I'd be either on the
corner pimping, because I'dprobably make more money, or
teaching people sex techniques,or running a porn site.
My whole life has been sexualhealth.
I've.
You know how sometimes you finda passion in life, or human
(03:09):
sexuality has been a topic thattotally intrigues me and I geek
out on it.
So my career has always beensomething in regards to
sexuality.
So I'll work, for you know,three or four years in STIs, and
then I get interested inwomen's health, and then I get
interested in sexual dysfunction, and then clinical drug trials
(03:29):
for sex and then research.
But I became a parent and eventhough I had worked as a sex
educator in schools, teachingkids, I was sitting there as a
parent and it was like I didn'tknow what to do with my own kids
.
I'd have a kid masturbating onthe lounge and I just didn't
know what to do because I couldtalk to people at work, but
(03:52):
talking to my own kid about sexwas really really hard.
So I then did a bit of a deeperdive into it and realised that
I wasn't alone.
Other parents were strugglingand I was frustrated because
you'd go to a website andthere'd be an article and it
would say teach them what sex is, but they wouldn't tell you how
to do it.
Or teaching the names of theirprivate parts, but they didn't
(04:14):
tell you what you shouldn't do.
And I got frustrated because Ithought, no wonder no one can do
it, because this is just notenough information.
So I created Sex Ed Rescue justas a resource to help parents
to start having theseconversations.
Nicki Farrell (04:32):
That's, I think, the hardest part, isn't it?
I was saying we have you know.
So I'm in the homeschoolingcommunity and we have.
It's a spectrum, like all thethings.
It's a spectrum of diverse,beautiful flavours and races and
cultures and genders, and allthe fluidities are making words
up now.
(04:52):
But one thing I've noticed isthere tends to be a lean towards
the conservative, which comesout of love and I'll say that
straight up, it always comes outof love the thought of
protecting children through, youknow, saving, protecting their
childhood and keeping themchildren longer.
But part of that is avoidinghaving sex ed conversations.
(05:15):
As a high school teacher, I'veseen the later result of that.
You know whether that's STIs orunwanted pregnancies, sexual
assaults, rapes, girls notknowing how to say no all of the
things these really, really bigconversations.
So I'd love for that to be oneof our first questions of you is
(05:35):
how early is too early?
When can we start?
And the what?
What should we start with, kath?
Cath Hakanson (05:43):
Yeah, and look, you're right there.
As parents, we want to do agood job, we want to protect our
kids and we want to keep themsafe and we don't want to harm
them.
And I think that's why so manyof us struggle with sex
education, because it's like weknow we need to have the talk,
because you hear about it or itmight have happened to you, but
you just and you know it needsto happen, but you're just not
(06:07):
sure because you're sittingthere thinking okay, if I talk
to them about sex, does thatmean that they're going to go to
school and tell everyone?
You know they're going to startdoing blowjobs in the toilets
at lunchtime and startpracticing.
And we just have all thesefears and all these doubts.
And so, as parents, we want toprotect our kids.
(06:27):
But, ironically, when I firststarted diving into sex
education, I had all those fearsand doubts myself and it was
like, well, why do we need tohave these conversations and why
are they important?
So I started going out there andbeing curious and watching
people how, talking to myfriends, watching how they
(06:47):
parented, and digging a littlebit deeper to see you know,
what's the benefit of theseconversations or why should we
be having them, and it took me alittle while to sort of make
sense of it, but I the one thingI realized is that sex
education actually protects ourkids and it actually empowers
them Absolutely, because a lotof us, if we look at our own
sexual pasts and think aboutyourself going through puberty
(07:11):
and some of your first earlysexual experiences, if you had
had parents that had talked toyou, had allowed you to come to
you with their questions andtheir concerns or provided you
with other ways to get thatinformation, I reckon most of us
would have made totallydifferent sex decisions and I
used to work as a sex therapistand the one thing I noticed was
(07:33):
that you'd get two types ofclients the ones that had had
good sex education and they wereas rare as Hens teeth.
And they were resilient, bumswould come along in their sex
lives.
They'd resolve with it and dealwith it and go back on to
having fantastic, healthy, happysexual relationships.
But then you'd get the onesthat had negative messaging,
(07:54):
shameful messaging, no messaging, and it was a lot.
The resilience sexually was alot lower.
It took a lot more work to getthem comfortable and back into
healthy, happy relationships.
So I was seeing the long termdamage of no conversations or
bad conversations and the thingI've realized about sex
(08:15):
education, and this is why weneed to start talking sooner
than later, because if we're nottalking, kids are going to hear
about it anyway.
I live in the inner city.
I have buses go past withVictoria's Secret Models on it.
I go into a shopping centre andthere's an adult sex toy shop
there.
Kids are accessing porn.
(08:35):
You know I hear from parentsthat are sitting there at the
swim class watching littleJohnny swimming up and down the
pool, but Mary, who's two yearsold, is sitting next to them on
mum's phone watching porn whilemum thinks she's playing a game
at swimming classes.
It's just beginning to hearabout sex regardless, because we
(08:57):
live in a sexualized worldwhere marketing use sex to make
money and to sell more products.
So we need to be getting inearly.
So everyone is different.
Some parents will start talkingabout sex at a much younger age
.
But most of us either talkabout it at the age where
they're curious about wherebabies come from and how they're
(09:17):
made, or they wait untilpuberty, because puberty is that
time where bodies are becomingsexual.
They might get pregnant.
So let's talk about sex and howto prevent pregnancy.
So that sort of becomes the agewhere people naturally think of
doing it.
But I think it needs to startpretty much from around that age
of five or six as aninformation about sex.
Nicki Farrell (09:39):
Yeah, it's so important.
I think again.
I've got the same stories asyou.
You know hand jobs inclassrooms and pregnancies where
children didn't even know thatthey could get pregnant, and
girls that got their period, andthen the mum just feeling so
bad and so guilty because I gotmy period at 14, but she got it
at 10.
(10:00):
I thought I had years ahead.
So we need you know.
And then that poor child beingso scared because she didn't
know what was going on and don'tthink we I know that as parents
, we don't want to harm themfrom not giving them the
knowledge.
And they are getting it.
They're on red tube, they're onall the websites and also they
can hack them at school just toheads up.
(10:21):
They can and they are hackingthem at school.
So school's not even a safeplace.
Not a safe place.
They are still getting theinformation at school.
So how do we go about startingthose conversations and why is
it so?
Well, we've already covered whyit's so important.
What are the kind of topics wecan start with then at five and
(10:42):
six?
Cath Hakanson (10:43):
Oh, there are so many topics to talk about and we
all have different passions.
So at that age of about five orsix, they definitely need to
know the anatomic or correctnames for their body parts.
So we should be talking aboutpenises and volvers, or vaginas.
We need to be talking to themabout body safety.
So we, because we're nowstarting to see a lot of
(11:06):
inappropriate sexual touchbetween children and it's all
rather stems.
It's yeah, it's innocent, butit can be problematic.
So we need to be talking tothem about the other boss of
their own body, talking aboutconsent, what to do, that they
need to ask their friend beforethey hug or kiss them or touch
them and vice versa.
So we need to have those bodysafety consent conversations.
(11:27):
We need to talk about internetsafety.
We need to talk about the factthat every family should have
rules about going online andwhat these rules are.
We need to be talking aboutfamilies and relationships,
because kids go to school andthey might have two mums at home
and they go to school and atschool pick up they might or at
(11:49):
the school you know when they dothat thing, where they stand in
front of the school and they dolike a song and something
assembly or something and theynotice that all their friends
parents are there, but most oftheir friends have got a mum and
a dad or just amum, but they've got two mums.
So we talk about families,about everyone has different
families, or families arewonderful, regardless of how
(12:10):
they've made up.
And then we also talk aboutdiversity as well, in regards to
everyone's different, andthat's okay.
So it's okay if I've got twomums, because you've got a mum
and a dad and over there's justgot one mum and they're living
in foster care.
So talking about that diversity, because I think parents who
want to have these conversationswant their kids to grow up to
(12:31):
be nice people who will make theworld a better place, but we
also don't want our kids to bedoormats as well.
We want them to stand up forourselves.
So talking about diversity andinclusion and talking about
different relationships as wellis helps with laying foundations
for conversations that you'regoing to have later on.
And then we should be talkingabout how babies are made and
(12:54):
where they come from, mainlybecause it explains that answers
the mystery of life.
That's basically the onlyreason why we talk about it.
When kids are younger, they'reso curious and they're trying to
work out how they came to exist.
And if we can respond to theircuriosity, we're giving them
information that's ageappropriate and we're opening
(13:16):
the door to let them know thatit's okay to come to us about
questions and things thatthey've heard at school, about
other things that they don'tunderstand.
Nicki Farrell (13:26):
That's so interesting.
You ringed that up.
The conversation I had when Ithink it was my elders it may
have been my youngest brought itup first.
Actually, we obviously animallovers here, we're in the wild a
lot and so it was like well,dogs make babies this way,
chickens lay eggs.
It was just a very curious.
(13:46):
These animals do it this way.
We're an animal, so how does ithappen with us?
And there was definitely thatlittle bit of a giggle when they
realised that mum and dad havesex and that that's where they
came from.
But it was not an uncomfortableconversation at all.
It was just answering thatcurious drive of where do I come
?
Cath Hakanson (14:03):
from.
There's a vintage sex educationbook and it starts off with
chickens and dogs and it's gotlike the penis going into the
chalk or the dog.
But then you get to the parent,the human page, and all you see
are the parents under a blanketand it's like there's no
penetration.
It's so funny isn't it?
Nicki Farrell (14:27):
We had to do a deep dive into chickens because,
you know, in our house therewere some thoughts that roosters
did have penises and there'snot.
So we've done a lot of biologyresearch.
Cath Hakanson (14:36):
And you can talk about sexual assault and rape
with chooks as well.
Yes, because there's no consentwith the rooster jumping on the
spot no consent.
Nicki Farrell (14:44):
We've had lots of chats like that.
So she doesn't look very happy,does she?
I think part of that is whenshe's in her cage, but when she
free ranges she can run.
But there's some really, reallyin-depth conversations.
Cath Hakanson (14:56):
This is one of the strategies for sex education
.
You see an opportunity and yougrab it.
So the chicken and the roosterit's like you could talk about
sexual assault.
You could talk about it,because there's no consent.
You could talk about how babiesare made.
You could talk about bodylanguage.
Look at her body language.
What do you think she's tryingto tell the rooster?
So there's just so many thingsthat you can talk about from one
(15:19):
situation.
Nicki Farrell (15:21):
Oh, I love that Pleasure.
One of my passions as a sex edteacher was to try not to just
scare the bloody bejesus out ofall of our teenagers and remind
them that sexual intimacy isalso meant to be pleasurable.
This seems to be the thing thatscares some parents the most,
(15:42):
because if teenagers find outit's pleasurable which they find
out through culture anywaymaybe they're going to do it and
they're going to do it earlier.
How do we bring up pleasure ina way that keeps our children
safe but also makes it not ascary task, not something
they'll consent to withoutpleasure and knowing that they
deserve for these experiences tobe pleasurable?
Cath Hakanson (16:03):
It's ironic that pleasure is like the new sex ed,
whereas there's some nicevintage stuff that was happening
in the 70s and the 80s.
That was all pleasure based, andthen we went into this very
factual prevention thing Veryfactual, so pleasure is really,
really important, and I think alot of parents struggle with it
(16:24):
because sexual feelings are verypersonal and it pushes lots of
buttons.
But I am starting to see a lotmore books coming out talking
more about pleasure and I thinka nice, simple way to talk about
it is you might start talkingabout sex so your kids know that
that's how babies are made andthen one day they like well,
(16:46):
hang on.
There's three in our family, sodoes that mean mum and dad have
had sex three times?
So they might ask that.
And then you start talkingabout the fact that adults have
sex for lots of differentreasons.
We have it for fun, we do it tomake a baby, we do it to show
our love, some people do it fora job, some people force people
to have sex and that's againstthe law and they go.
(17:08):
They should go to jail for thatbecause that's wrong.
So we can talk about all thedifferent things.
But as kids get closer topuberty, that's when they start
to think of sex a little bitdifferently, because they know
that their body's changing,they're seeing their friends
change and that's when sexualfeelings first start rising up
(17:29):
and we kids start thinking aboutsex as being something that
they know they might one daywant to do.
But they start noticing thatthey get different feelings
around friends and start havingcrushes.
Masturbation might starthappening again for the first
time.
So this can be a greatopportunity for us to be talking
about puberty, about physicalchanges that happen.
(17:51):
But there's a lot of reallygood books now that are coming
out that are also talking aboutthe sexual changes as well,
about how the fact that ourbrain changes and we start
having these sexual feelings andthey happen to everyone and
then we can start also talkingabout how exploring your own
body and working out what worksfor you is a good way to go,
(18:12):
because how can you tell apartner what you like if you
don't know what you like?
This stuff can feel scary, butif we can just start talking
about stuff, it keeps the dooropen and conversations will just
naturally evolve.
But the pleasure is importantbecause I think we've had the
(18:38):
focus in the past on sex justbeing about preventing STIs,
preventing pregnancy, andconsents now come in because of
all the sexual assault and allthe stuff in America with their
high profile university collegecases, so we now talk more about
consent.
But yeah, we're now starting topart of the consent of pleasure
(19:02):
is also about empowering ouryouth as well, because sex, you
know, good sex is great.
Yeah.
Sex is.
It's an important part of arelationship and it's important
part of who we all are as well.
Nicki Farrell (19:18):
Oh, I love that and I think it's.
I love the touching on excusethe pun the masturbation part as
well.
I think that's such a good leadup into well, if you know what
feels good for your body, that'swhat it feels good for mom and
dad as well.
But you know, you can mutuallypleasure as well, and I think
that's the conversation.
I think actually in myhousehold that we've missed at
the moment is they know aboutself-pleasure and they know
(19:39):
about sex for pleasure.
But I don't think I've piecedtogether those, the two.
The two are, you know, one andthe same.
It's all about making sure it'sa pleasurable experience for
everyone.
Cath Hakanson (19:50):
Yeah, because sex is such a weird thing because
when you think about it you haveyou have your tongue in someone
else's mouth, you might putyour mouth on their penis,
vagina or bottom.
You know, poo and wee comes outof there and it gets smelly and
we touch their bodies.
And so kids, it's like thisreally weird thing that we do
(20:13):
and it sounds gross when yousort of step back and look at it
.
But they forget that we get allthese sexual feelings, that
sort of get rid of the grossnessand make it desirable, and that
can be really tricky becausethey're looking at it very
mechanically.
They don't get the feelings,they don't understand that good
sex isn't about having a tightvagina or a big cock or knowing
(20:36):
how to suck a penis.
So they don't realize that sexis more than technique, it's
more than the mechanics, it'sthe communication and the
connection and, yeah, whathappens between two people.
So, yeah, it takes them alittle while to get that.
Nicki Farrell (20:53):
That's the conversations that missing.
How do we bring that up?
Connection and communication,because you've nailed it, that's
it.
Cath Hakanson (21:01):
And this is the thing.
When I first started doing sexed rescue and thinking about sex
ed, I thought, oh yeah, it'sall these conversations got to
have and you got to have thisconvo and talk about that.
And then, as I was because Iwas a parent myself and I was
living this I was realizing thatthere's actually an easy way to
do sex ed.
I often jokingly call it thelazy way, but it's the way that
(21:21):
fits in with busy parenting,where we're all busy.
We've all got a guilt list ofthings that we feel we should be
doing, but we don't have time.
But sex ed can be really reallyeasy to talk about love, sex and
relationships.
But it also makes yourrelationship with your child
much stronger and more connectedand it saves your time because
(21:42):
you're talking about what'srelevant.
So you ask questions of yourkids, you answer their questions
, you read books.
I used to do the thing where mykid would pick a book.
I would pick a book.
So every night I'd get adifferent book in about a topic
that I thought was important.
So, because I was reading thisstuff as well, we would talk
while we were reading, whichmeant we're getting stuff you
(22:04):
know combos ticked off the list.
Nicki Farrell (22:06):
Yeah nice, keep the doors open.
Cath Hakanson (22:08):
But what I noticed is the more we talked,
kids are smart.
They go to school.
They realize that these topicsare taboo because they're other
friends don't talk, but so theyknow they can come home and go.
Hey mom, what's a 69er?
And you'll answer them in an ageappropriate way.
So they keep coming back to youwith stuff and then, because
you're talking and you'regetting closer, they're sharing
(22:31):
stuff that's happening at school.
So as your kids then go throughteens which everyone says are
the years of bad relationships,lots of tension they don't have
to be like that, because you'vegot a strong foundation of a
good relationship with,conversations are going on.
So as they become teens,conversations get a bit trickier
(22:53):
because now they're more aboutrelationships and stories and
connections and they're notreally wanting the facts from
you as they go through puberty.
So then you've got to thinkwell, I try to throw them a book
.
They won't read it because theyjust won't.
It doesn't even matter if it'scomic book, it's because you've
suggested it.
I try to start a conversationand they're not interested.
(23:15):
So you've got to keep talkingbecause you go well, you know I
heard this great story aboutporn the other day and I go.
So what, mom and walk off, thatwas wasted and it wasn't
because you've just let themknow that you're happy to talk
about that stuff.
Nicki Farrell (23:31):
So true.
Cath Hakanson (23:32):
So as they get older, another easy way to keep
the conversations going is tobuild into your weekly routine
with either all the kids orindividually, depending on their
age differences and how muchtime you've got, but is to build
into a ritual of alwayswatching a program with them.
So, my son loves Mr Beast onYouTube.
(23:54):
He's a number one YouTuber andhe's actuallya really
interesting guy.
One of the regulars in it isnow a trans woman.
So I have opportunities.
I go so what's Chris's new nameagain?
And we'll talk about that, andwe talk about gender diversity.
So we watch that on a Sundaymorning.
I stagger up and he goes heymom, the new video is out and we
(24:16):
watch it and we talk aboutstuff.
So with my daughter, we'llwatch, read the same books, or
we'll watch the same shows likeGilmore Girls, anything from the
80s or 90s.
You sit there and watch it.
Nicki Farrell (24:28):
So much problematic stuff from them,
isn't?
Cath Hakanson (24:31):
it Like those vampire ones with the vampire
and the wearable.
And then she has the baby.
That has a really weird name,but you watch these shows Edward
and Bella, or is?
Nicki Farrell (24:45):
it.
Oh, talking about problematiccontrolling coercive
relationships.
So unhealthy, but you know what?
Cath Hakanson (24:53):
So unhealthy.
As parents, we've got to bewatching those trashy programs
that make us cringe, becausethere is so much fodder for us
to talk about love, sex andrelationships.
Nicki Farrell (25:06):
Red flag, red flag, this is the thing.
Cath Hakanson (25:09):
The trashier it is, the more problematic it is,
the better it is to watchbecause you talk about the stuff
.
Nicki Farrell (25:17):
But like heartbreak, heartstopper,
Heartstopper yes, heartbreakeris a heartstopper, heartstopper,
yes.
Cath Hakanson (25:21):
Yes, mmm, netflix is picking up all this diverse
stuff.
They did.
They turned another book abouttwo men falling in love red,
blue and white or something.
Oh, I haven't read that one.
The book was brilliant, but oh,it's about two guys falling in
love.
It was so corny and sostereotypical, it was actually
offensive.
I watched it with my daughterand we talked about how harmful
(25:44):
stereotypes are.
So types can be about gaypeople so beautiful.
Nicki Farrell (25:49):
So, yeah, I bought the book series with my
son and we're going to read ittogether and then we'll watch
the series together too, becauseI just think how wonderful.
Like you said, it might not, itmight be too good.
It sounds like this is so.
It's so beautiful.
It's like I need to introducemore of that old trash.
Cath Hakanson (26:08):
Yeah, because at the end of the day they get to
that age where you've you can nolonger shape them.
They're working out who theyare in life.
So you've got to.
You know it's like fight thebattles that you can win or pick
your battles.
So, yeah, going with what theirinterests are and showing
you've got an interest andkeeping the doors open for
(26:30):
talking.
Nicki Farrell (26:31):
It's a really good reminder, though, that
that's why we need to startearly, because if you're waiting
at 13 and 14, they're notinterested to be hearing it from
you anymore and you need tohave that base laid and covered
and that relationship of trustbuilt already, that you're a
person of knowledge to go to anda safe space.
It's a lot harder.
Cath Hakanson (26:49):
You've got to apologise.
Apologise for not realising.
And then it's a lot harderbecause they're more resistant
because of the stage thatthey're at developmentally.
Because, yeah, they've got togo through their healthy
development and we've got towork with where they're at in
their development and leaving ituntil the teens is impossible.
(27:09):
But I got an email once from amother.
Her kids were in their early20s and I don't even know how
she found me, but she found meand she started reading my
emails and after six months shemessaged me and said Kath, I'm a
great.
Oh no, she was a grandmother.
I'm a grandmother.
My youngest youngest are intheir 20s, but I've started
talking to them about sex.
(27:30):
Oh, thanks to you.
And she said it's incredible.
She said, even though we nevertalked, I apologise.
I explained that I realised Ishould have been doing this and
she said we're having the mostamazing conversations.
And she said I'm so glad that Iknow it made me feel like
crying.
Oh, terry, I'm so glad.
Yeah, she's now there for herkids as young adults navigating
(27:55):
relationships themselves.
So it is never too late tostart talking.
Nicki Farrell (27:59):
And that's the extra degree of separation from
a parent.
You know that our teenagers andyoung adults need safe people
around them that aren't theirparents as well.
They need you to be safe, butthey also need those additional
people.
How do you go about earmarkingthose people and giving those
people a bit of a heads up thatyou know I'd love for you to be
(28:20):
my teens village, my safe person.
Cath Hakanson (28:24):
Oh, it's tricky because, like I love Maggie Dent
as parenting guru, I just thinkshe's wonderful and she talks
about how we're no longerparenting in a village.
And this is the thing.
When I was a kid growing up, Iknew all my neighbours.
My kids don't really know ourneighbours because we live in
the inner city.
Most of their friends don'tlive in the same suburb.
(28:46):
So it's I live on one side ofAustralia, my family are on the
other side, so my kids don'thave aunts and uncles, they
don't have cousins or familyover here and we've got
different family friends.
But because the lives get busy,a lot of communicating now is
just done with me and my friends.
The kids aren't involved.
So it is a lot harder for kidsto find that community.
(29:10):
So that's why it's, you know,when we talk about having a
village for our children, it'sabout making sure that they're
trying to get them involved insports, if you still can, or
giving them other things to doso that they can have other
trusted adults to talk to.
But it is really tricky Becausewe're now parenting in a
(29:30):
generation where we know aboutsexual abuse.
Nicki Farrell (29:33):
Yeah.
Cath Hakanson (29:34):
And we're a lot more private as families as well
, and we're a lot moreprotective.
So it is a lot harder for kidsto have other adults to turn to,
but the internet is a greatplace for kids to find that
connection and the communicationas well.
We just have to be careful,though, to make sure that it's
healthy communication, becausewe just don't want our kids to
(29:58):
get trolled or catfished.
Nicki Farrell (30:00):
And tricky adults .
Cath Hakanson (30:03):
It is a lot harder to get kids those extra
people for them to turn to andextra support people as they get
older.
Nicki Farrell (30:10):
So, speaking of that you kind of touched on, my
next question was resources.
I'm going to get you to tell meall about yours in a minute.
Is there anywhere else youwould direct children and
children, teenagers, adults,parents for resources on sex ed,
relationships, all of those?
I don't even want to call themuncomfortable conversation
(30:31):
conversations.
We need to have to be the safespaces for our children.
Cath Hakanson (30:36):
The kids helpline .
Have you been to their?
Nicki Farrell (30:38):
website recently.
I haven't been in a couple ofyears, actually not since I was
teaching.
Cath Hakanson (30:44):
I don't know.
They must have received somefunding.
They have got the most amazingeducational information for kids
.
It's like it's a resource ofeverything from friendship
issues to sexting.
It's got so kids helpline is anincredible resource the website
(31:04):
itself and the services thatthey offer if kids need to ring.
So there's not a lot of stuffout there actually for children
or twins, lots of stuff forteens when they get over 14.
But because that's fundingrelated to preventing pregnancy
and public health service.
So there's government fundingfor that, but in the early years
(31:27):
there's not much at all, whichis why we need to oh, america
has, it is American, so it doescome from an abstinence based.
American views on sexuality is alittle different to us because
they come from purity, whereaswe don't.
They have some.
They have a maze sex ed videos.
So these are videos that theymake to teach kids about lots of
(31:50):
different topics becausethere's like zero sex education
in their schools.
So they are good resources aswell for parents to turn to if
they want resources to watchwith their kids.
But books are basically yourbest resource.
Nicki Farrell (32:04):
And, I would add, for tricky, tricky adults.
The Daniel Morgan Foundation'sgot some fantastic conversation
starters there for parents andeducators as well.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we start to
wrap up?
Anything you'd like me?
Cath Hakanson (32:18):
to know other than you don't have to do this
alone.
You're not on your own with sexed and I.
My whole thing is about makingit easy for parents and don't
feel like you're alone.
So just realize that there areresources, there are tools out
there that you can use to makesex ed easier, and it doesn't
need to be another job on yourlist of things to talk about
(32:41):
with your kids that you canactually build it into your
everyday relationship.
But you just end up with thatstronger, more connected and
healthier relationship with yourkids and it just makes
parenting and empowering ourkids so much easier.
Nicki Farrell (32:59):
So true, you know we might not live in the
village scenario anymore, butthat doesn't mean that the
village isn't accessible,whether that's online, phones,
resources like yourself, it is.
It's in the information era,right?
It's all there.
We just need to set aside thosetimes to have those
conversations, and I love theidea that TV and books, all that
(33:22):
kind of literature, can be theprompts for those conversations
too.
All right, are you ready forsome rapid fire questions, kath
Yep?
All right, what's your favoritebook of all time and why?
Or, if that's too hard, whatare you currently reading or
listening to?
Cath Hakanson (33:38):
I am reading lots of trashy teen romance.
Nicki Farrell (33:42):
Amazing.
Do you have a favourite?
Cath Hakanson (33:43):
author at the moment.
I found, oh, I'm readingJennifer Armentraup and Jennifer
J Armentraup.
Her stuff is brilliant inregards to consent and stuff.
But Allie Hazelwood is anotheryouth young adult romance writer
and she writes from an autisticperspective, so she talks about
(34:04):
stuff that other romance booksdon't talk about.
So that's what I'm into at themoment, other than problematic
masturbation, is my favouritething I'm reading at the moment.
Nicki Farrell (34:16):
We won't go to the diversity we have available
at our fingertips now is likenothing I knew about when I was
growing up.
It was very, you know, it wasvery like very straight, very
white.
There was no intersectionalityand it was all very biology
based.
It was very functional.
So the stuff we have access tonow like we really don't have
(34:36):
any excuses, do we?
It's great, all right, where doyou go or what do you do to
reset after a rough day?
Cath Hakanson (34:45):
Oh, this is so hard as parents.
I don't turn to alcohol, Iusually, for me, it's about just
sitting there and groundingmyself and telling myself that
shit happens, some days I don'tdo as good a job, or some days
are just tougher, but I'm humanand tomorrow is a fresh day and
(35:11):
what matters is that I care andI'm trying to be a better parent
, and that's what matters.
So that's how I handle it.
Nicki Farrell (35:21):
Everything's better after a good night's
sleep.
Cath Hakanson (35:22):
Yeah, and also kids learn when we screw up or
have bad parenting moments.
Nicki Farrell (35:28):
So yeah, absolutely.
Cath Hakanson (35:31):
Yeah, how we respond allows them to realise
they don't have to be perfect.
Nicki Farrell (35:35):
Oh, I love that.
If you had to choose just onething to change about the
education system, what would itbe?
It?
Cath Hakanson (35:42):
should start later.
I think we start kids way tooearly.
I know why we start them early,but I really do think that I
started off my children atalternative schooling because I
hated the education system withthe fact that I felt it was
throwing kids into a system andbreaking their spirit, training
them to respond and behave, andthen shoving all this
(36:05):
information into them and therewas not enough about emotional
intelligence, resilience, beinga good person.
So, yeah, that's the one thingI would like to see change that
I don't think we need to havethem starting at the age of four
.
Why not do what they do inEurope which works?
Nicki Farrell (36:23):
really well, really well.
And again, I'm with you.
I know it's for certaindemographics, it's the safety
thing, right, but we're stilldoing them a disservice with
what we're teaching and thetesting and whatnot.
And we can still have a schoolwhere children are safe but
where we can just play and wherewe can reach those emotional
(36:44):
intelligence goals which should.
I mean, you can't teach a childmaths if they.
What's the point of teachingthe maths if they can't even
have a healthy relationshipoutside of school?
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
And finally, where can we findout more about your work and
what can parents gather fromyour services?
Cath Hakanson (37:03):
Okay, so my online home is Sexo to Rescue,
so I have it all set up how Iwould like it if I was a parent
struggling with all theseconversations.
So I have lots of blog postsand I'm going to add a new thing
.
Recently I have a I run aFacebook group called that
Parent Group and we getquestions all the time about the
(37:23):
same stuff.
So we've got this huge list ofabout 40 topics that I've
written information about how tohandle, and I've realized that
it's not on the website and allthese other parents are in the
same situation.
So I have all these resourcesthat are there to help make your
job as a parent easier.
So I have a lot of free stuff,but I also have a lot of
(37:45):
resources that I create to sell,because I have to make money to
be able to help people, so Isell stuff as well.
Nicki Farrell (37:52):
Exactly.
Cath Hakanson (37:53):
And knowledge is valuable, and this is the thing
you know.
There's two ways to do it.
You can do all the research andfind all the information
yourself, or you can grab aresource, and I keep my stuff
priced very low and veryaffordable because I come from
the public health system myselfand I believe that information
should be accessible.
And then I also run a freeFacebook group which is sitting
(38:17):
in about 180,000 parents, and itis a place.
It is a place where you go.
My five year old came home fromschool and told me that this
happened what the hell do I do?
And parents will jump in and gowhy don't you try this or do
that?
Or oh you poor thing?
So I've created this onlinespace so that parents don't feel
(38:41):
alone with sex education andwhere they can help each other
as well.
Nicki Farrell (38:46):
Oh, that's incredible.
It's that safe place that'svalidating your experience and
breaking.
Shattering that Facebook groupwould be shattering taboos and
enabling parents to have thoseconversations with their
children.
Oh, that's so important.
That makes me so happy.
It's the missing link.
It's the missing link betweenbooks, my child.
(39:08):
How the hell do I answer thisquestion about the kid I just
caught masturbating under thetable as a teacher?
Cath Hakanson (39:14):
Yeah, and we're alone.
Sex education you do inisolation because you don't sit
at the park talking about littleJohnny masturbating under the
table or something.
So where else can you turn?
You ask it in other parentinggroups and they think you're a
weirdo or you get responses thatdon't fit with your values.
My group you'll get likebetween 20 to 300 comments and
(39:39):
you are guaranteed to findsomething that'll work.
Vicci Oliver (39:42):
You'll find a lot of stuff that won't work and
you'll go.
Cath Hakanson (39:45):
I would never do that, but this is the thing it's
about seeing what other parentsdo, and you can't get that
information.
Nicki Farrell (39:54):
No, that's right.
There's resources, and thenthere's the real life practice
and modern culture around it too, I think, which is just amazing
.
People slander technology andthere's definitely some bad
sides to it, but gosh, theconversations that have happened
, particularly for minoritiesand particularly around taboos.
It is life changing and it iscreating such a safer space for
(40:18):
our children, which isultimately what we all want.
So thank you for providing sucha space for parents, because
that means, I mean, you're achildren's advocate by doing
that.
It's just what we're all herefor, isn't it?
Cath Hakanson (40:31):
Yeah, it's interesting when I get the hate
mail.
I get the regular hate mailaccusing me of being a pedophile
because I'm teaching childrento have sex, and it's like, no,
I'm not.
If I am, my insurer would notinsure me.
I've had the police knocking onmy door and this is the thing,
isn't?
Nicki Farrell (40:48):
it the old.
Yeah, I won't go down thatrabbit hole, but it is.
There's the whole.
You need to protect children byempowering them and giving them
the knowledge, because if youdon't, the Andrew Tates of the
world will, and that isterrifying.
So please arm yourself with allthe knowledge and please pass
(41:08):
it on to your children.
Thank you so, so, so, very muchfor joining us.
We will link all of Kath'sresources to her website and her
socials in the show notes.
So if you missed that over thepodcast, don't worry, it's in
the show notes.
Please follow her.
Please join her Facebook group.
The more we all talk about this,the better and safer all of our
(41:29):
children will be.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, kath.
Thanks, nikki.
That conversation was soaffirming and a reminder about
how important theseconversations are for our
children.
The more often we talk aboutsex, ed, masturbation periods,
pornography, wet dreams, consent, stds you know all the things
(41:51):
the less they become taboo andthe safer our children will be.
We always have that saying.
You know, we say it all the timeknowledge is power, but our
children need to have thecorrect knowledge, not something
they've learned off a friend infifth grade who heard it from
their older brother who idolizesAndrew Tate.
If we don't give our childrenthis information A they will
(42:12):
find it somewhere anyway and itcould be correct at best or
dangerous at worst.
And you won't have built arelationship of trust with your
tanger to come to you aboutthese topics so that even when
they find themselves in adangerous or scary situation,
they may not feel safe coming toyou, which could possibly put
them in an even more dangeroussituation.
(42:34):
So we need to practice usingour uncomfortable muscles until
they become comfortable.
You know, the more we use thesemuscles, the easier these
conversations will become.
Starting early withdevelopmentally appropriate
talks paves the way for thesebigger, harder conversations,
but at least your child willknow that you're a safe place to
(42:56):
go.
So thank you, as always, forjoining us for these tough and
uncomfortable and superimportant conversations and for
being part of the change thatyou want to see in the world.
Until next week, stay wild.
This week we're chatting with Kath Hakanson,
mother, sex educator and founderof Sex Ed Rescue.
Her life's work is all abouthelping kids and parents have
better relationships throughempowering conversations.
She provides parents with thetools, self-confidence and
strategies to make sex educationless threatening, more natural
and much easier, and believesthat if kids can talk to their
(00:22):
parents about sex, they can talkto their parents about anything
.
Let's chat to Kath.
We'd like to acknowledge thetraditional custodians of the
land on which we record todaythe Kabi, kabi and Gabi Gabi
people.
We recognise their continuedconnection to the land and
waters of this beautiful place.
We recognise Aboriginal peopleas the original custodians of
(00:44):
this land and acknowledge thatthey have never ceded
sovereignty.
We respect all Gabi Gabi elders, ancestors and emerging elders
and all First Nations peoplelistening today.
Vicci Oliver (00:55):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative educationand stepping into the
wilderness, however that lookswith your family.
Nicki Farrell (01:04):
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that
truly inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.
Vicci Oliver (01:18):
We're your hosts, vicky and Nikki from Wildlings
Forest School Popping yourheadphones, settle in and join
us on this next adventure.
Nicki Farrell (01:25):
Welcome to the show, kath.
Thank you so much for joiningus and for those that are, you
know, listening along, I do liketo make this a bit personal.
Kath has been so flexible thismorning because we had a
last-minute neighbourhood notgoing to say emergency, because
that's very dramatic, but Ialways find that people we
attract to our podcast and intoour world so compassionate.
(01:45):
So thank you for yourcompassion and understanding
today.
How are you today?
Cath Hakanson (01:49):
Hi, nikki, and thanks for inviting me along.
Oh look, I sat here thismorning, got the kids off to
school, sat at my desk andstarted typing into Facebook,
talking to people all over theworld, and in the background
I've got this gang of juvenilecookaburras.
I live in the inner city and wedon't get cookaburras, and it's
like this gang move in for acouple of days then then they
(02:09):
disappear.
So I'm sitting here typing withall these beautiful cookaburra
stuff in the background, livingin the inner city, and it's just
such a great start to the day.
So I'm really glad to be heretalking about my favourite topic
sex.
Nicki Farrell (02:24):
Me too, because, as I was saying before, I'm an
HPE teacher.
So and this is one of thereasons I went into high school
and PE was for actually thehealth component and the
relationships component.
So this is something I'm superexcited and passionate about.
But as a business owner too,I'm really curious to find out
how you ended up here with SexEd Rescue.
(02:45):
Can you talk to us about that?
Cath Hakanson (02:48):
Oh, it's ironic.
I often joke to my peers.
If I wanted to make money outof sex, I'd be either on the
corner pimping, because I'dprobably make more money, or
teaching people sex techniques,or running a porn site.
My whole life has been sexualhealth.
I've.
You know how sometimes you finda passion in life, or human
(03:09):
sexuality has been a topic thattotally intrigues me and I geek
out on it.
So my career has always beensomething in regards to
sexuality.
So I'll work, for you know,three or four years in STIs, and
then I get interested inwomen's health, and then I get
interested in sexual dysfunction, and then clinical drug trials
(03:29):
for sex and then research.
But I became a parent and eventhough I had worked as a sex
educator in schools, teachingkids, I was sitting there as a
parent and it was like I didn'tknow what to do with my own kids
.
I'd have a kid masturbating onthe lounge and I just didn't
know what to do because I couldtalk to people at work, but
(03:52):
talking to my own kid about sexwas really really hard.
So I then did a bit of a deeperdive into it and realised that
I wasn't alone.
Other parents were strugglingand I was frustrated because
you'd go to a website andthere'd be an article and it
would say teach them what sex is, but they wouldn't tell you how
to do it.
Or teaching the names of theirprivate parts, but they didn't
(04:14):
tell you what you shouldn't do.
And I got frustrated because Ithought, no wonder no one can do
it, because this is just notenough information.
So I created Sex Ed Rescue justas a resource to help parents
to start having theseconversations.
Nicki Farrell (04:32):
That's, I think, the hardest part, isn't it?
I was saying we have you know.
So I'm in the homeschoolingcommunity and we have.
It's a spectrum, like all thethings.
It's a spectrum of diverse,beautiful flavours and races and
cultures and genders, and allthe fluidities are making words
up now.
(04:52):
But one thing I've noticed isthere tends to be a lean towards
the conservative, which comesout of love and I'll say that
straight up, it always comes outof love the thought of
protecting children through, youknow, saving, protecting their
childhood and keeping themchildren longer.
But part of that is avoidinghaving sex ed conversations.
(05:15):
As a high school teacher, I'veseen the later result of that.
You know whether that's STIs orunwanted pregnancies, sexual
assaults, rapes, girls notknowing how to say no all of the
things these really, really bigconversations.
So I'd love for that to be oneof our first questions of you is
(05:35):
how early is too early?
When can we start?
And the what?
What should we start with, kath?
Cath Hakanson (05:43):
Yeah, and look, you're right there.
As parents, we want to do agood job, we want to protect our
kids and we want to keep themsafe and we don't want to harm
them.
And I think that's why so manyof us struggle with sex
education, because it's like weknow we need to have the talk,
because you hear about it or itmight have happened to you, but
you just and you know it needsto happen, but you're just not
(06:07):
sure because you're sittingthere thinking okay, if I talk
to them about sex, does thatmean that they're going to go to
school and tell everyone?
You know they're going to startdoing blowjobs in the toilets
at lunchtime and startpracticing.
And we just have all thesefears and all these doubts.
And so, as parents, we want toprotect our kids.
(06:27):
But, ironically, when I firststarted diving into sex
education, I had all those fearsand doubts myself and it was
like, well, why do we need tohave these conversations and why
are they important?
So I started going out there andbeing curious and watching
people how, talking to myfriends, watching how they
(06:47):
parented, and digging a littlebit deeper to see you know,
what's the benefit of theseconversations or why should we
be having them, and it took me alittle while to sort of make
sense of it, but I the one thingI realized is that sex
education actually protects ourkids and it actually empowers
them Absolutely, because a lotof us, if we look at our own
sexual pasts and think aboutyourself going through puberty
(07:11):
and some of your first earlysexual experiences, if you had
had parents that had talked toyou, had allowed you to come to
you with their questions andtheir concerns or provided you
with other ways to get thatinformation, I reckon most of us
would have made totallydifferent sex decisions and I
used to work as a sex therapistand the one thing I noticed was
(07:33):
that you'd get two types ofclients the ones that had had
good sex education and they wereas rare as Hens teeth.
And they were resilient, bumswould come along in their sex
lives.
They'd resolve with it and dealwith it and go back on to
having fantastic, healthy, happysexual relationships.
But then you'd get the onesthat had negative messaging,
(07:54):
shameful messaging, no messaging, and it was a lot.
The resilience sexually was alot lower.
It took a lot more work to getthem comfortable and back into
healthy, happy relationships.
So I was seeing the long termdamage of no conversations or
bad conversations and the thingI've realized about sex
(08:15):
education, and this is why weneed to start talking sooner
than later, because if we're nottalking, kids are going to hear
about it anyway.
I live in the inner city.
I have buses go past withVictoria's Secret Models on it.
I go into a shopping centre andthere's an adult sex toy shop
there.
Kids are accessing porn.
(08:35):
You know I hear from parentsthat are sitting there at the
swim class watching littleJohnny swimming up and down the
pool, but Mary, who's two yearsold, is sitting next to them on
mum's phone watching porn whilemum thinks she's playing a game
at swimming classes.
It's just beginning to hearabout sex regardless, because we
(08:57):
live in a sexualized worldwhere marketing use sex to make
money and to sell more products.
So we need to be getting inearly.
So everyone is different.
Some parents will start talkingabout sex at a much younger age
.
But most of us either talkabout it at the age where
they're curious about wherebabies come from and how they're
(09:17):
made, or they wait untilpuberty, because puberty is that
time where bodies are becomingsexual.
They might get pregnant.
So let's talk about sex and howto prevent pregnancy.
So that sort of becomes the agewhere people naturally think of
doing it.
But I think it needs to startpretty much from around that age
of five or six as aninformation about sex.
Nicki Farrell (09:39):
Yeah, it's so important.
I think again.
I've got the same stories asyou.
You know hand jobs inclassrooms and pregnancies where
children didn't even know thatthey could get pregnant, and
girls that got their period, andthen the mum just feeling so
bad and so guilty because I gotmy period at 14, but she got it
at 10.
(10:00):
I thought I had years ahead.
So we need you know.
And then that poor child beingso scared because she didn't
know what was going on and don'tthink we I know that as parents
, we don't want to harm themfrom not giving them the
knowledge.
And they are getting it.
They're on red tube, they're onall the websites and also they
can hack them at school just toheads up.
(10:21):
They can and they are hackingthem at school.
So school's not even a safeplace.
Not a safe place.
They are still getting theinformation at school.
So how do we go about startingthose conversations and why is
it so?
Well, we've already covered whyit's so important.
What are the kind of topics wecan start with then at five and
(10:42):
six?
Cath Hakanson (10:43):
Oh, there are so many topics to talk about and we
all have different passions.
So at that age of about five orsix, they definitely need to
know the anatomic or correctnames for their body parts.
So we should be talking aboutpenises and volvers, or vaginas.
We need to be talking to themabout body safety.
So we, because we're nowstarting to see a lot of
(11:06):
inappropriate sexual touchbetween children and it's all
rather stems.
It's yeah, it's innocent, butit can be problematic.
So we need to be talking tothem about the other boss of
their own body, talking aboutconsent, what to do, that they
need to ask their friend beforethey hug or kiss them or touch
them and vice versa.
So we need to have those bodysafety consent conversations.
(11:27):
We need to talk about internetsafety.
We need to talk about the factthat every family should have
rules about going online andwhat these rules are.
We need to be talking aboutfamilies and relationships,
because kids go to school andthey might have two mums at home
and they go to school and atschool pick up they might or at
(11:49):
the school you know when they dothat thing, where they stand in
front of the school and they dolike a song and something
assembly or something and theynotice that all their friends
parents are there, but most oftheir friends have got a mum and
a dad or just amum, but they've got two mums.
So we talk about families,about everyone has different
families, or families arewonderful, regardless of how
(12:10):
they've made up.
And then we also talk aboutdiversity as well, in regards to
everyone's different, andthat's okay.
So it's okay if I've got twomums, because you've got a mum
and a dad and over there's justgot one mum and they're living
in foster care.
So talking about that diversity, because I think parents who
want to have these conversationswant their kids to grow up to
(12:31):
be nice people who will make theworld a better place, but we
also don't want our kids to bedoormats as well.
We want them to stand up forourselves.
So talking about diversity andinclusion and talking about
different relationships as wellis helps with laying foundations
for conversations that you'regoing to have later on.
And then we should be talkingabout how babies are made and
(12:54):
where they come from, mainlybecause it explains that answers
the mystery of life.
That's basically the onlyreason why we talk about it.
When kids are younger, they'reso curious and they're trying to
work out how they came to exist.
And if we can respond to theircuriosity, we're giving them
information that's ageappropriate and we're opening
(13:16):
the door to let them know thatit's okay to come to us about
questions and things thatthey've heard at school, about
other things that they don'tunderstand.
Nicki Farrell (13:26):
That's so interesting.
You ringed that up.
The conversation I had when Ithink it was my elders it may
have been my youngest brought itup first.
Actually, we obviously animallovers here, we're in the wild a
lot and so it was like well,dogs make babies this way,
chickens lay eggs.
It was just a very curious.
(13:46):
These animals do it this way.
We're an animal, so how does ithappen with us?
And there was definitely thatlittle bit of a giggle when they
realised that mum and dad havesex and that that's where they
came from.
But it was not an uncomfortableconversation at all.
It was just answering thatcurious drive of where do I come
?
Cath Hakanson (14:03):
from.
There's a vintage sex educationbook and it starts off with
chickens and dogs and it's gotlike the penis going into the
chalk or the dog.
But then you get to the parent,the human page, and all you see
are the parents under a blanketand it's like there's no
penetration.
It's so funny isn't it?
Nicki Farrell (14:27):
We had to do a deep dive into chickens because,
you know, in our house therewere some thoughts that roosters
did have penises and there'snot.
So we've done a lot of biologyresearch.
Cath Hakanson (14:36):
And you can talk about sexual assault and rape
with chooks as well.
Yes, because there's no consentwith the rooster jumping on the
spot no consent.
Nicki Farrell (14:44):
We've had lots of chats like that.
So she doesn't look very happy,does she?
I think part of that is whenshe's in her cage, but when she
free ranges she can run.
But there's some really, reallyin-depth conversations.
Cath Hakanson (14:56):
This is one of the strategies for sex education
.
You see an opportunity and yougrab it.
So the chicken and the roosterit's like you could talk about
sexual assault.
You could talk about it,because there's no consent.
You could talk about how babiesare made.
You could talk about bodylanguage.
Look at her body language.
What do you think she's tryingto tell the rooster?
So there's just so many thingsthat you can talk about from one
(15:19):
situation.
Nicki Farrell (15:21):
Oh, I love that Pleasure.
One of my passions as a sex edteacher was to try not to just
scare the bloody bejesus out ofall of our teenagers and remind
them that sexual intimacy isalso meant to be pleasurable.
This seems to be the thing thatscares some parents the most,
(15:42):
because if teenagers find outit's pleasurable which they find
out through culture anywaymaybe they're going to do it and
they're going to do it earlier.
How do we bring up pleasure ina way that keeps our children
safe but also makes it not ascary task, not something
they'll consent to withoutpleasure and knowing that they
deserve for these experiences tobe pleasurable?
Cath Hakanson (16:03):
It's ironic that pleasure is like the new sex ed,
whereas there's some nicevintage stuff that was happening
in the 70s and the 80s.
That was all pleasure based, andthen we went into this very
factual prevention thing Veryfactual, so pleasure is really,
really important, and I think alot of parents struggle with it
(16:24):
because sexual feelings are verypersonal and it pushes lots of
buttons.
But I am starting to see a lotmore books coming out talking
more about pleasure and I thinka nice, simple way to talk about
it is you might start talkingabout sex so your kids know that
that's how babies are made andthen one day they like well,
(16:46):
hang on.
There's three in our family, sodoes that mean mum and dad have
had sex three times?
So they might ask that.
And then you start talkingabout the fact that adults have
sex for lots of differentreasons.
We have it for fun, we do it tomake a baby, we do it to show
our love, some people do it fora job, some people force people
to have sex and that's againstthe law and they go.
(17:08):
They should go to jail for thatbecause that's wrong.
So we can talk about all thedifferent things.
But as kids get closer topuberty, that's when they start
to think of sex a little bitdifferently, because they know
that their body's changing,they're seeing their friends
change and that's when sexualfeelings first start rising up
(17:29):
and we kids start thinking aboutsex as being something that
they know they might one daywant to do.
But they start noticing thatthey get different feelings
around friends and start havingcrushes.
Masturbation might starthappening again for the first
time.
So this can be a greatopportunity for us to be talking
about puberty, about physicalchanges that happen.
(17:51):
But there's a lot of reallygood books now that are coming
out that are also talking aboutthe sexual changes as well,
about how the fact that ourbrain changes and we start
having these sexual feelings andthey happen to everyone and
then we can start also talkingabout how exploring your own
body and working out what worksfor you is a good way to go,
(18:12):
because how can you tell apartner what you like if you
don't know what you like?
This stuff can feel scary, butif we can just start talking
about stuff, it keeps the dooropen and conversations will just
naturally evolve.
But the pleasure is importantbecause I think we've had the
(18:38):
focus in the past on sex justbeing about preventing STIs,
preventing pregnancy, andconsents now come in because of
all the sexual assault and allthe stuff in America with their
high profile university collegecases, so we now talk more about
consent.
But yeah, we're now starting topart of the consent of pleasure
(19:02):
is also about empowering ouryouth as well, because sex, you
know, good sex is great.
Yeah.
Sex is.
It's an important part of arelationship and it's important
part of who we all are as well.
Nicki Farrell (19:18):
Oh, I love that and I think it's.
I love the touching on excusethe pun the masturbation part as
well.
I think that's such a good leadup into well, if you know what
feels good for your body, that'swhat it feels good for mom and
dad as well.
But you know, you can mutuallypleasure as well, and I think
that's the conversation.
I think actually in myhousehold that we've missed at
the moment is they know aboutself-pleasure and they know
(19:39):
about sex for pleasure.
But I don't think I've piecedtogether those, the two.
The two are, you know, one andthe same.
It's all about making sure it'sa pleasurable experience for
everyone.
Cath Hakanson (19:50):
Yeah, because sex is such a weird thing because
when you think about it you haveyou have your tongue in someone
else's mouth, you might putyour mouth on their penis,
vagina or bottom.
You know, poo and wee comes outof there and it gets smelly and
we touch their bodies.
And so kids, it's like thisreally weird thing that we do
(20:13):
and it sounds gross when yousort of step back and look at it
.
But they forget that we get allthese sexual feelings, that
sort of get rid of the grossnessand make it desirable, and that
can be really tricky becausethey're looking at it very
mechanically.
They don't get the feelings,they don't understand that good
sex isn't about having a tightvagina or a big cock or knowing
(20:36):
how to suck a penis.
So they don't realize that sexis more than technique, it's
more than the mechanics, it'sthe communication and the
connection and, yeah, whathappens between two people.
So, yeah, it takes them alittle while to get that.
Nicki Farrell (20:53):
That's the conversations that missing.
How do we bring that up?
Connection and communication,because you've nailed it, that's
it.
Cath Hakanson (21:01):
And this is the thing.
When I first started doing sexed rescue and thinking about sex
ed, I thought, oh yeah, it'sall these conversations got to
have and you got to have thisconvo and talk about that.
And then, as I was because Iwas a parent myself and I was
living this I was realizing thatthere's actually an easy way to
do sex ed.
I often jokingly call it thelazy way, but it's the way that
(21:21):
fits in with busy parenting,where we're all busy.
We've all got a guilt list ofthings that we feel we should be
doing, but we don't have time.
But sex ed can be really reallyeasy to talk about love, sex and
relationships.
But it also makes yourrelationship with your child
much stronger and more connectedand it saves your time because
(21:42):
you're talking about what'srelevant.
So you ask questions of yourkids, you answer their questions
, you read books.
I used to do the thing where mykid would pick a book.
I would pick a book.
So every night I'd get adifferent book in about a topic
that I thought was important.
So, because I was reading thisstuff as well, we would talk
while we were reading, whichmeant we're getting stuff you
(22:04):
know combos ticked off the list.
Nicki Farrell (22:06):
Yeah nice, keep the doors open.
Cath Hakanson (22:08):
But what I noticed is the more we talked,
kids are smart.
They go to school.
They realize that these topicsare taboo because they're other
friends don't talk, but so theyknow they can come home and go.
Hey mom, what's a 69er?
And you'll answer them in an ageappropriate way.
So they keep coming back to youwith stuff and then, because
you're talking and you'regetting closer, they're sharing
(22:31):
stuff that's happening at school.
So as your kids then go throughteens which everyone says are
the years of bad relationships,lots of tension they don't have
to be like that, because you'vegot a strong foundation of a
good relationship with,conversations are going on.
So as they become teens,conversations get a bit trickier
(22:53):
because now they're more aboutrelationships and stories and
connections and they're notreally wanting the facts from
you as they go through puberty.
So then you've got to thinkwell, I try to throw them a book
.
They won't read it because theyjust won't.
It doesn't even matter if it'scomic book, it's because you've
suggested it.
I try to start a conversationand they're not interested.
(23:15):
So you've got to keep talkingbecause you go well, you know I
heard this great story aboutporn the other day and I go.
So what, mom and walk off, thatwas wasted and it wasn't
because you've just let themknow that you're happy to talk
about that stuff.
Nicki Farrell (23:31):
So true.
Cath Hakanson (23:32):
So as they get older, another easy way to keep
the conversations going is tobuild into your weekly routine
with either all the kids orindividually, depending on their
age differences and how muchtime you've got, but is to build
into a ritual of alwayswatching a program with them.
So, my son loves Mr Beast onYouTube.
(23:54):
He's a number one YouTuber andhe's actuallya really
interesting guy.
One of the regulars in it isnow a trans woman.
So I have opportunities.
I go so what's Chris's new nameagain?
And we'll talk about that, andwe talk about gender diversity.
So we watch that on a Sundaymorning.
I stagger up and he goes heymom, the new video is out and we
(24:16):
watch it and we talk aboutstuff.
So with my daughter, we'llwatch, read the same books, or
we'll watch the same shows likeGilmore Girls, anything from the
80s or 90s.
You sit there and watch it.
Nicki Farrell (24:28):
So much problematic stuff from them,
isn't?
Cath Hakanson (24:31):
it Like those vampire ones with the vampire
and the wearable.
And then she has the baby.
That has a really weird name,but you watch these shows Edward
and Bella, or is?
Nicki Farrell (24:45):
it.
Oh, talking about problematiccontrolling coercive
relationships.
So unhealthy, but you know what?
Cath Hakanson (24:53):
So unhealthy.
As parents, we've got to bewatching those trashy programs
that make us cringe, becausethere is so much fodder for us
to talk about love, sex andrelationships.
Nicki Farrell (25:06):
Red flag, red flag, this is the thing.
Cath Hakanson (25:09):
The trashier it is, the more problematic it is,
the better it is to watchbecause you talk about the stuff
.
Nicki Farrell (25:17):
But like heartbreak, heartstopper,
Heartstopper yes, heartbreakeris a heartstopper, heartstopper,
yes.
Cath Hakanson (25:21):
Yes, mmm, netflix is picking up all this diverse
stuff.
They did.
They turned another book abouttwo men falling in love red,
blue and white or something.
Oh, I haven't read that one.
The book was brilliant, but oh,it's about two guys falling in
love.
It was so corny and sostereotypical, it was actually
offensive.
I watched it with my daughterand we talked about how harmful
(25:44):
stereotypes are.
So types can be about gaypeople so beautiful.
Nicki Farrell (25:49):
So, yeah, I bought the book series with my
son and we're going to read ittogether and then we'll watch
the series together too, becauseI just think how wonderful.
Like you said, it might not, itmight be too good.
It sounds like this is so.
It's so beautiful.
It's like I need to introducemore of that old trash.
Cath Hakanson (26:08):
Yeah, because at the end of the day they get to
that age where you've you can nolonger shape them.
They're working out who theyare in life.
So you've got to.
You know it's like fight thebattles that you can win or pick
your battles.
So, yeah, going with what theirinterests are and showing
you've got an interest andkeeping the doors open for
(26:30):
talking.
Nicki Farrell (26:31):
It's a really good reminder, though, that
that's why we need to startearly, because if you're waiting
at 13 and 14, they're notinterested to be hearing it from
you anymore and you need tohave that base laid and covered
and that relationship of trustbuilt already, that you're a
person of knowledge to go to anda safe space.
It's a lot harder.
Cath Hakanson (26:49):
You've got to apologise.
Apologise for not realising.
And then it's a lot harderbecause they're more resistant
because of the stage thatthey're at developmentally.
Because, yeah, they've got togo through their healthy
development and we've got towork with where they're at in
their development and leaving ituntil the teens is impossible.
(27:09):
But I got an email once from amother.
Her kids were in their early20s and I don't even know how
she found me, but she found meand she started reading my
emails and after six months shemessaged me and said Kath, I'm a
great.
Oh no, she was a grandmother.
I'm a grandmother.
My youngest youngest are intheir 20s, but I've started
talking to them about sex.
(27:30):
Oh, thanks to you.
And she said it's incredible.
She said, even though we nevertalked, I apologise.
I explained that I realised Ishould have been doing this and
she said we're having the mostamazing conversations.
And she said I'm so glad that Iknow it made me feel like
crying.
Oh, terry, I'm so glad.
Yeah, she's now there for herkids as young adults navigating
(27:55):
relationships themselves.
So it is never too late tostart talking.
Nicki Farrell (27:59):
And that's the extra degree of separation from
a parent.
You know that our teenagers andyoung adults need safe people
around them that aren't theirparents as well.
They need you to be safe, butthey also need those additional
people.
How do you go about earmarkingthose people and giving those
people a bit of a heads up thatyou know I'd love for you to be
(28:20):
my teens village, my safe person.
Cath Hakanson (28:24):
Oh, it's tricky because, like I love Maggie Dent
as parenting guru, I just thinkshe's wonderful and she talks
about how we're no longerparenting in a village.
And this is the thing.
When I was a kid growing up, Iknew all my neighbours.
My kids don't really know ourneighbours because we live in
the inner city.
Most of their friends don'tlive in the same suburb.
(28:46):
So it's I live on one side ofAustralia, my family are on the
other side, so my kids don'thave aunts and uncles, they
don't have cousins or familyover here and we've got
different family friends.
But because the lives get busy,a lot of communicating now is
just done with me and my friends.
The kids aren't involved.
So it is a lot harder for kidsto find that community.
(29:10):
So that's why it's, you know,when we talk about having a
village for our children, it'sabout making sure that they're
trying to get them involved insports, if you still can, or
giving them other things to doso that they can have other
trusted adults to talk to.
But it is really tricky Becausewe're now parenting in a
(29:30):
generation where we know aboutsexual abuse.
Nicki Farrell (29:33):
Yeah.
Cath Hakanson (29:34):
And we're a lot more private as families as well
, and we're a lot moreprotective.
So it is a lot harder for kidsto have other adults to turn to,
but the internet is a greatplace for kids to find that
connection and the communicationas well.
We just have to be careful,though, to make sure that it's
healthy communication, becausewe just don't want our kids to
(29:58):
get trolled or catfished.
Nicki Farrell (30:00):
And tricky adults .
Cath Hakanson (30:03):
It is a lot harder to get kids those extra
people for them to turn to andextra support people as they get
older.
Nicki Farrell (30:10):
So, speaking of that you kind of touched on, my
next question was resources.
I'm going to get you to tell meall about yours in a minute.
Is there anywhere else youwould direct children and
children, teenagers, adults,parents for resources on sex ed,
relationships, all of those?
I don't even want to call themuncomfortable conversation
(30:31):
conversations.
We need to have to be the safespaces for our children.
Cath Hakanson (30:36):
The kids helpline .
Have you been to their?
Nicki Farrell (30:38):
website recently.
I haven't been in a couple ofyears, actually not since I was
teaching.
Cath Hakanson (30:44):
I don't know.
They must have received somefunding.
They have got the most amazingeducational information for kids
.
It's like it's a resource ofeverything from friendship
issues to sexting.
It's got so kids helpline is anincredible resource the website
(31:04):
itself and the services thatthey offer if kids need to ring.
So there's not a lot of stuffout there actually for children
or twins, lots of stuff forteens when they get over 14.
But because that's fundingrelated to preventing pregnancy
and public health service.
So there's government fundingfor that, but in the early years
(31:27):
there's not much at all, whichis why we need to oh, america
has, it is American, so it doescome from an abstinence based.
American views on sexuality is alittle different to us because
they come from purity, whereaswe don't.
They have some.
They have a maze sex ed videos.
So these are videos that theymake to teach kids about lots of
(31:50):
different topics becausethere's like zero sex education
in their schools.
So they are good resources aswell for parents to turn to if
they want resources to watchwith their kids.
But books are basically yourbest resource.
Nicki Farrell (32:04):
And, I would add, for tricky, tricky adults.
The Daniel Morgan Foundation'sgot some fantastic conversation
starters there for parents andeducators as well.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we start to
wrap up?
Anything you'd like me?
Cath Hakanson (32:18):
to know other than you don't have to do this
alone.
You're not on your own with sexed and I.
My whole thing is about makingit easy for parents and don't
feel like you're alone.
So just realize that there areresources, there are tools out
there that you can use to makesex ed easier, and it doesn't
need to be another job on yourlist of things to talk about
(32:41):
with your kids that you canactually build it into your
everyday relationship.
But you just end up with thatstronger, more connected and
healthier relationship with yourkids and it just makes
parenting and empowering ourkids so much easier.
Nicki Farrell (32:59):
So true, you know we might not live in the
village scenario anymore, butthat doesn't mean that the
village isn't accessible,whether that's online, phones,
resources like yourself, it is.
It's in the information era,right?
It's all there.
We just need to set aside thosetimes to have those
conversations, and I love theidea that TV and books, all that
(33:22):
kind of literature, can be theprompts for those conversations
too.
All right, are you ready forsome rapid fire questions, kath
Yep?
All right, what's your favoritebook of all time and why?
Or, if that's too hard, whatare you currently reading or
listening to?
Cath Hakanson (33:38):
I am reading lots of trashy teen romance.
Nicki Farrell (33:42):
Amazing.
Do you have a favourite?
Cath Hakanson (33:43):
author at the moment.
I found, oh, I'm readingJennifer Armentraup and Jennifer
J Armentraup.
Her stuff is brilliant inregards to consent and stuff.
But Allie Hazelwood is anotheryouth young adult romance writer
and she writes from an autisticperspective, so she talks about
(34:04):
stuff that other romance booksdon't talk about.
So that's what I'm into at themoment, other than problematic
masturbation, is my favouritething I'm reading at the moment.
Nicki Farrell (34:16):
We won't go to the diversity we have available
at our fingertips now is likenothing I knew about when I was
growing up.
It was very, you know, it wasvery like very straight, very
white.
There was no intersectionalityand it was all very biology
based.
It was very functional.
So the stuff we have access tonow like we really don't have
(34:36):
any excuses, do we?
It's great, all right, where doyou go or what do you do to
reset after a rough day?
Cath Hakanson (34:45):
Oh, this is so hard as parents.
I don't turn to alcohol, Iusually, for me, it's about just
sitting there and groundingmyself and telling myself that
shit happens, some days I don'tdo as good a job, or some days
are just tougher, but I'm humanand tomorrow is a fresh day and
(35:11):
what matters is that I care andI'm trying to be a better parent
, and that's what matters.
So that's how I handle it.
Nicki Farrell (35:21):
Everything's better after a good night's
sleep.
Cath Hakanson (35:22):
Yeah, and also kids learn when we screw up or
have bad parenting moments.
Nicki Farrell (35:28):
So yeah, absolutely.
Cath Hakanson (35:31):
Yeah, how we respond allows them to realise
they don't have to be perfect.
Nicki Farrell (35:35):
Oh, I love that.
If you had to choose just onething to change about the
education system, what would itbe?
It?
Cath Hakanson (35:42):
should start later.
I think we start kids way tooearly.
I know why we start them early,but I really do think that I
started off my children atalternative schooling because I
hated the education system withthe fact that I felt it was
throwing kids into a system andbreaking their spirit, training
them to respond and behave, andthen shoving all this
(36:05):
information into them and therewas not enough about emotional
intelligence, resilience, beinga good person.
So, yeah, that's the one thingI would like to see change that
I don't think we need to havethem starting at the age of four
.
Why not do what they do inEurope which works?
Nicki Farrell (36:23):
really well, really well.
And again, I'm with you.
I know it's for certaindemographics, it's the safety
thing, right, but we're stilldoing them a disservice with
what we're teaching and thetesting and whatnot.
And we can still have a schoolwhere children are safe but
where we can just play and wherewe can reach those emotional
(36:44):
intelligence goals which should.
I mean, you can't teach a childmaths if they.
What's the point of teachingthe maths if they can't even
have a healthy relationshipoutside of school?
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
And finally, where can we findout more about your work and
what can parents gather fromyour services?
Cath Hakanson (37:03):
Okay, so my online home is Sexo to Rescue,
so I have it all set up how Iwould like it if I was a parent
struggling with all theseconversations.
So I have lots of blog postsand I'm going to add a new thing
.
Recently I have a I run aFacebook group called that
Parent Group and we getquestions all the time about the
(37:23):
same stuff.
So we've got this huge list ofabout 40 topics that I've
written information about how tohandle, and I've realized that
it's not on the website and allthese other parents are in the
same situation.
So I have all these resourcesthat are there to help make your
job as a parent easier.
So I have a lot of free stuff,but I also have a lot of
(37:45):
resources that I create to sell,because I have to make money to
be able to help people, so Isell stuff as well.
Nicki Farrell (37:52):
Exactly.
Cath Hakanson (37:53):
And knowledge is valuable, and this is the thing
you know.
There's two ways to do it.
You can do all the research andfind all the information
yourself, or you can grab aresource, and I keep my stuff
priced very low and veryaffordable because I come from
the public health system myselfand I believe that information
should be accessible.
And then I also run a freeFacebook group which is sitting
(38:17):
in about 180,000 parents, and itis a place.
It is a place where you go.
My five year old came home fromschool and told me that this
happened what the hell do I do?
And parents will jump in and gowhy don't you try this or do
that?
Or oh you poor thing?
So I've created this onlinespace so that parents don't feel
(38:41):
alone with sex education andwhere they can help each other
as well.
Nicki Farrell (38:46):
Oh, that's incredible.
It's that safe place that'svalidating your experience and
breaking.
Shattering that Facebook groupwould be shattering taboos and
enabling parents to have thoseconversations with their
children.
Oh, that's so important.
That makes me so happy.
It's the missing link.
It's the missing link betweenbooks, my child.
(39:08):
How the hell do I answer thisquestion about the kid I just
caught masturbating under thetable as a teacher?
Cath Hakanson (39:14):
Yeah, and we're alone.
Sex education you do inisolation because you don't sit
at the park talking about littleJohnny masturbating under the
table or something.
So where else can you turn?
You ask it in other parentinggroups and they think you're a
weirdo or you get responses thatdon't fit with your values.
My group you'll get likebetween 20 to 300 comments and
(39:39):
you are guaranteed to findsomething that'll work.
Vicci Oliver (39:42):
You'll find a lot of stuff that won't work and
you'll go.
Cath Hakanson (39:45):
I would never do that, but this is the thing it's
about seeing what other parentsdo, and you can't get that
information.
Nicki Farrell (39:54):
No, that's right.
There's resources, and thenthere's the real life practice
and modern culture around it too, I think, which is just amazing
.
People slander technology andthere's definitely some bad
sides to it, but gosh, theconversations that have happened
, particularly for minoritiesand particularly around taboos.
It is life changing and it iscreating such a safer space for
(40:18):
our children, which isultimately what we all want.
So thank you for providing sucha space for parents, because
that means, I mean, you're achildren's advocate by doing
that.
It's just what we're all herefor, isn't it?
Cath Hakanson (40:31):
Yeah, it's interesting when I get the hate
mail.
I get the regular hate mailaccusing me of being a pedophile
because I'm teaching childrento have sex, and it's like, no,
I'm not.
If I am, my insurer would notinsure me.
I've had the police knocking onmy door and this is the thing,
isn't?
Nicki Farrell (40:48):
it the old.
Yeah, I won't go down thatrabbit hole, but it is.
There's the whole.
You need to protect children byempowering them and giving them
the knowledge, because if youdon't, the Andrew Tates of the
world will, and that isterrifying.
So please arm yourself with allthe knowledge and please pass
(41:08):
it on to your children.
Thank you so, so, so, very muchfor joining us.
We will link all of Kath'sresources to her website and her
socials in the show notes.
So if you missed that over thepodcast, don't worry, it's in
the show notes.
Please follow her.
Please join her Facebook group.
The more we all talk about this,the better and safer all of our
(41:29):
children will be.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, kath.
Thanks, nikki.
That conversation was soaffirming and a reminder about
how important theseconversations are for our
children.
The more often we talk aboutsex, ed, masturbation periods,
pornography, wet dreams, consent, stds you know all the things
(41:51):
the less they become taboo andthe safer our children will be.
We always have that saying.
You know, we say it all the timeknowledge is power, but our
children need to have thecorrect knowledge, not something
they've learned off a friend infifth grade who heard it from
their older brother who idolizesAndrew Tate.
If we don't give our childrenthis information A they will
(42:12):
find it somewhere anyway and itcould be correct at best or
dangerous at worst.
And you won't have built arelationship of trust with your
tanger to come to you aboutthese topics so that even when
they find themselves in adangerous or scary situation,
they may not feel safe coming toyou, which could possibly put
them in an even more dangeroussituation.
(42:34):
So we need to practice usingour uncomfortable muscles until
they become comfortable.
You know, the more we use thesemuscles, the easier these
conversations will become.
Starting early withdevelopmentally appropriate
talks paves the way for thesebigger, harder conversations,
but at least your child willknow that you're a safe place to
(42:56):
go.
So thank you, as always, forjoining us for these tough and
uncomfortable and superimportant conversations and for
being part of the change thatyou want to see in the world.
Until next week, stay wild.
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