Unmasking Neurodiversity: Jane McFadden's Journey Through ADHD, Autism, and Parenting

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're chatting to Jane McFadden of ADHD Mums.
Now Jane is a formerpsychologist.
After a continued battle withburnout, stress and anxiety,
received the shock diagnosis ofADHD in 2022 and found the
medication life-changing.
However, this medicationunveiled autistic traits that
led her to be diagnosed withautism in 2024.

(00:20):
Jane's now studying a master'sin child and adolescent
psychology to further understandneurodiversity and began the
podcast ADHD Mums in 2023, whichhit number two in Australia in
just a year.
Jane now works as a speaker,author, neuroscientist and
neurodiversity specialist, andshe lives right here on the
Sunshine Coast with her husbandand three children.

(00:41):
Now, this episode might seemprobably a little left of field
for some of our listeners asit's not forest school or
alternative education related,but it is very parenting related
and particularly in our forestschool business, we get a lot of
families with children who areneurodivergent, and Jane noticed

(01:02):
that in our programs as well.
And Jane noticed that in ourprograms as well.
I went on her podcast recentlyand spoke about how good forest
school is for neurodivergentfamilies and, as you'll hear,
this podcast does get a littlebit personal as the penny drops
for me in more ways than one.
So thank you for your patienceas I giggle along uncomfortably,
as I have some uncomfortablerealizations for me.

(01:25):
The reason Jane and I gottogether on this podcast was to
hopefully help mums and parents,particularly those of teenage
girls who are having a difficulttime, perhaps maybe in school,
maybe because they'reundiagnosed and the traits that
they're suffering from at themoment and making being in
school really difficult or lifefull stop really difficult.

(01:45):
If this podcast helps oneteenage girl or child, then
we've done a fantastic job.
Our hope is also that maybe bygetting a child's diagnosis,
there might be a few parentshere that may receive one too,
that may help them.
So buckle up.
It's a bumpy intro.
We're just going to jumpstraight into it.

(02:07):
Hope you enjoy.
We'd like to acknowledge thetraditional custodians of the
land on which we record todaythe Kabi Kabi and Gubbi Gubbi
people.
We recognise their continuedconnection to the land and
waters of this beautiful place.
We recognise Aboriginal peopleas the original custodians of
this land and acknowledge thatthey have never ceded

(02:29):
sovereignty.
We respect all Gubbi Gubbielders, ancestors and emerging
elders, and all First Nationspeople listening today.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about
parenting, alternative educationand stepping into the
wilderness, however that looks,with your family.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly
inspire us to answer yourparenting and education
questions.
We'll also be sharing storiesfrom some incredible families
that took the leap and aretaking the road less travelled.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
We're your hosts.
Vicki and Nikki from WildlingsForest School, Pop in your
headphones, settle in and joinus on this next adventure.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
I'm just going to get right into it.
I was going to just say goodmorning and start really
formally, but I feel like withJane, we just have this
boom-ba-da-boom-ba-da-boom wherewe've got 20 different stories,
but in the best way, and I'msuper excited to talk to you.
So previously I've just been onJane's ADHD Mums podcast and I
was super excited to invite herand to reciprocate that, because

(03:31):
we cross over quite a lot indifferent ways, shapes and forms
, and I want to thank you forthe invite to begin with.
But what I want to really diveinto is, I guess, the
similarities across ourbusinesses and why.
But first of all, hi, andsecond of all, can you please

(03:53):
tell us your story, beginningwith how and why you started
ADHD Mums, because I don't knowit.
I've gone back since.
We've recorded and listened toprobably two podcasts, but I
haven't been right back yet.
So this is actually new to me,so I'm excited to hear it.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Oh well, you know what?
I am not a natural podcaster.
I'm a very private person and Idon't have any interest in
being a well-known person at all.
Yet I suppose here we are.
The reason that I'm here isbecause when I was 30, I don't
know, you know what ADHD, youdon't even know how old you are

(04:31):
in times I don't know I would bein my mid thirties and I had
three kids under five and theeldest went to prep and we all
know that that's a differentphase, right, and it reminded me
a little bit of being pregnantwhen I just thought about being
pregnant and then you know thechildbirth, and when the baby
came out, I realized I didn'tknow what to do with said baby.

(04:52):
I'd never held a baby before,didn't know I had to sleep.
It was a whole, you know, awhole, nother thing.
But it was a little similar tothat going into prep.
I have never been so aware thatthere was something fucking
wrong with me when I became tobe a prep mum and I thought this
is actually the weirdestexperience of my life.

(05:14):
I've always felt a little bitdifferent and I've always been a
bit much, but I knew veryclearly when I was in the pickup
.
So at the particular stateschool I was, we had to walk all
the way in with our child,stand around awkwardly for five
minutes, then hand the child tothe teacher.
We had to do it all year and itwas even more awkward on the
other end, because you juststand around awkwardly to wait

(05:37):
for your child and you knowthere's all this like little
small talk stuff that I hate.
However, the women there in thegroup are still some of my good
friends.
This is not a judgy mum crowd.
This is a really nice mum crowd, but when I spoke to them I
knew there's something wrongwith me.
I am not like these otherpeople, and it just became clear

(06:00):
, and I want to be reallyspecific with examples, because
a bit of a pet hate of mine iswhen people talk generally and
you don't get an example.
Let me give you an example yes,please.
So you start school in January,february it was July I still
didn't know what day library daywas.
I remember getting homework,thinking I don't know how to
read these instructions.

(06:21):
This is weird and boring.
What is this?
I could never seem to get thelogin to Seesaw to work.
And one particular morning Iremember arriving and I walked
my daughter in.
I was very disheveled.
I was running two differentcompanies.
We had multiple Airbnbs,absolute chaos.
I have always brought chaoswith me wherever I go and I

(06:44):
would bring my husband and mythree kids on the chaos with me.
I kind of know better now thatchaos is not fun with kids, but
at the time I honestly didn'tknow better.
So anyway, I bring my child in,I bring my daughter in, gigi,
and I'm walking her in and we'relate.
You know standard 15 minutesfor me.
And as I walk her in late, Irealise I can see through the

(07:06):
window that every child there iswearing like some kind of
outfit and it looked to me likeit was some kind of princess day
and I thought, oh God, I'vedone it again.
Who knows, I don't know what'sgoing on most of the time.
I'm pretty sure there's a dressup day that I've missed.
So anyway, I was like, oh cool,gigi, don't worry about it.
So we run back to the shoppingcenter who?

(07:26):
We were lucky that we livedright near the shopping center,
which is right near the school.
We ran into the $2 shop and Igot her a princess outfit.
We put it on.
I walked her back in.
As I'm walking her back in, I'vegot all of her uniform in the
car and I opened the door andI'm that proud of myself that
I've got this princess outfit tofind that everybody's in

(07:46):
uniforms.
And I was like I swear theywere in princess outfits before.
And I say to the teacher look,I know that I don't know what's
going on all the time, like ever, and I know I get it wrong all
the time.
I swear they were wearingprincess outfits before.
Was that today or yesterday?

(08:06):
And I was thinking I've lost it.
I've had hands down, I've lostmy mind.
She goes oh no, we just brieflyput them on for like a dress up
thing for 15 minutes in thebeginning and I was like okay,
and I was like, well, I'vereally got to go to work.
We're now, like you know, 45minutes late at this point.
Can I just leave her in theprincess outfit?
And she goes, no, not really Goback to the car.

(08:29):
I had to go back to the car,get her dressed again, right,
and then take her back in.
This is like 10 o'clock at thispoint and I just thought this
is just bizarre.
Like I can't.
I can't continue like thisanymore.
So I was in this cycle ofburnout and overwhelm and stress

(08:51):
and I realized it was all thelittle things that caught me and
I ended up going to apsychologist for you know the
millionth time, because I'd beenin and out of therapy for like
20 years trying to figure outstress, burnout, anxiety.
What is going on with me?
Why am I on this roller coaster?
Why do I swap career pathsevery three minutes?

(09:13):
Why do I always get confused?
What's going on?
And then I'd move states andeveryone go aren't you living in
Victoria?
I'd be like, oh no, I live inSydney now and I'd just be
bringing this removal truck ofchaos with me.
If I had to go overseas, I'dnever know where my passport was
.
I'd even go to the gate, nothave my passport and go oh, I
don't think it matters, does it?

(09:33):
And they'd go yes, yes, it does.
And I just felt like I wasgoing loop to dupe.
And my husband is the mostbeautiful rock man.
I have diagnosed him with ADHD,but that's just a wife's
diagnosis and he's a bit moreinattentive.
So I felt like I was alwaysoperating at this hyperactive

(09:58):
level and I couldn't understandwhy everybody else was just
happy or relaxed, or I wasthinking do they not have ideas?
Do they not chase down dreams?
Why do people seem to be sohappy just going to the park,
like, don't you have otherthings on your brain?
My phone was ringing constantly, it was chaotic and I suppose

(10:20):
when I went to the psychologistyou know it was only the
probably the 10th, 11th, 15thpsychologist I've been to and he
said to me have you ever done atest for ADHD?
I laughed in his face.
I'd practiced as a psychologist.
I'd canceled people but ofcourse, too impatient,
hyperactive to stick at it.
I'd kind of finished up that.

(10:42):
So I thought that I knew it all.
But at the same time, all ofthe tools, strategies,
medication.
I'd kind of finished up that.
So I thought that I knew it all, but at the same time, all of
the tools, strategies,medication I'd been given for
the past you know, 20 odd, 25years had never worked.
And he said to me bear with mewhile we do this testing.
And I thought, oh God, he'sstupid.
Why am I paying for this?
Hurry up.
He doesn't know what he's doing.

(11:03):
Anyway, we get through thething and he and we go through
the thing and he goes oh, youknow, are you ever late?
And you know all of the things?
I said, no, never late.
Very successful, I've got itall sorted and you know I'm very
organised and he actuallytaught me about masking and how

(11:24):
you cover things up.
So he's like yes, yes, I knowyou've got your two phones with
your 17 buzzers that go offthroughout every session that
we've got.
I can see those.
They seem to work well.
And I know you've got yourApple Watch, which is buzzing
all the time.
But I want to know if youactually remember where you were
supposed to be next Tuesday at10 o'clock.
Do you have any idea?

(11:44):
And no, I don't.
And when we went through thecriteria, but taking away all of
the things that I had used toprop scaffold myself up, it
became very clear that I hitevery single marker hard, the
only, and I was denying it.
I was not interested in havingit, I was denying it.
He was pulling me up sayingI've seen you do that, seen you

(12:07):
do that.
And he said to me as soon asyou walked in and you started
talking to me.
I 100% know that you have ADHD,wow.
And I'm just lucky that he wasa female specialist from a
hospital who had then gone outinto private practice, oh wow.

(12:30):
So he was one of the very fewthat would have been able to see
it.
And then I lined it up and said, oh, no one of my brothers has
that.
He's like, yes, it's genetic.
Then he starts listing thetraits and I said, oh, my dad
did that a lot and my grandma,but I don't have that.
And we continued on for quite along time, even when I rang my
best friend after theappointment to tell her how
stupid this whole thing was, herhusband has ADHD.

(12:54):
And she said to me I actuallythink you have that because you
are all over the shop all thetime.
So it took me about a year andI tried to do lifestyle changes,
changing the diet.
I'm not somebody to trymedication easily and I even
thought at that time you know,I'm going to admit it I did not

(13:15):
think or I thought, thatchildren that were medicated for
ADHD maybe they didn't need tobe.
You know, like I was all aboutdiet and natural and just
oblivious.
I knew I didn't know a lot aboutADHD, because I didn't think I
knew anybody or it affected me,and everyone's got the
stereotype of the eight-year-oldboy jumping around disrupting

(13:37):
the classroom, which didn't fitme.
So it was only actually afterdon't you love this?
So it was only actually afterdon't you love this.
I just decided that I couldn'tdo grade one with my daughter.
I was like this is actually toohard, and so we decided in 12
hours that we were going tocaravan around Australia.
We bought the caravan, we hadit delivered.

(14:00):
We didn't know how to drive it,we didn't know where we were
going, we didn't have any plans.
I just threw all this crap outon the road on Marketplace and
said come and get it.
And we went on this trip aroundAustralia for a year, primarily
because I was so burnt out,stressed, tired and over the
schooling thing that I thoughtanything has to be easier than

(14:20):
this.
So I kind of just latched onimpulsivity to this caravan trip
.
Anyway, it really was not.
I mean, can you imagine fiveout of five ADHD people in a
caravan Like it was chaotic, tosay the least.
We did not have petrol, wedidn't have food.
Half the time the gas didn'twork, we didn't have showers, it

(14:46):
was just we'd arrive and belike, oh, I think it's unpowered
, oh, we don't have any water.
We were just all over the shopProbably.
I felt like we should have beenmonitored.
But anyway, we've got somegreat stories.
It was a great trip.
But I came back pity, burnt out.
And when I came back burnt outand also I don't even want to go
into it because it's anabsolute nightmare of a story
but we left the caravan in Perthand flew back.

(15:07):
I can't even tell you why,because it's so stupid.
Then my husband had to fly backto Perth to get it, which we'd
left it in a caravan park fortwo weeks and they kept ringing
us asking us where we were.
Anyway, my husband went back toget it in Perth and when he was
away I had the kids by myselffor a couple of weeks.
And I think with the transitionin, you know, we couldn't get

(15:28):
back into our house straightaway.
We were in Airbnbs.
I was exhausted and my son wasmy middle son was really
difficult, and it was at thatpoint that I was desperate
enough to call a friend of afriend and say look, there's
something not right here.
Of course you blame your child,there's something wrong with
him, can you fix him?
And so she agreed to assess him.

(15:52):
But she specializes in females.
So the first thing she says isdo you have any daughters?
And I said, oh yeah, I've got adaughter.
And the teacher said she's gotauditory processing, but she
definitely doesn't have ADHD.
You know, the teacher saidshe's got auditory processing,
but she definitely doesn't haveADHD.
I've been told I have ADHD, butyou know, I think I'm fine.
And when we started talking shesaid to me you need to bring
yourself and your daughter up tome ASAP.

(16:14):
I was like but I just need youto sort my son out.
She's like no, no, no, no,bring up your daughter.
And anyway.
So we brought up my daughterand I went up myself.
And it was at that point when Isat down with her and she
actually pulled me up enoughtimes with what I thought was
okay and very normal as to whatshe thought was.

(16:35):
And it was after thatconversation that she said to me
I think you, possibly youshould consider medication, and
it was probably at a time whereI was desperate enough and I had
to do something that Iconsidered it.
So I went along to a telehealthpsychiatrist appointment, took
me three or four sessions to getthe right medication.
When I took it.

(16:56):
I can tell you, if you are notsure if you have ADHD or not,
take the medication because it'san instant fix Well, not a fix,
I call it an ADHD Panadol thatyou can take it at work,
straight away.
It's not one of theseantidepressants where you have
to take it for 12 weeks, see,and it's so subtle and you don't
know if it's environmental,it's just like straight up.

(17:18):
So I went through a couple thatdidn't work for me and I took a
dexamphetamine, which is ashort acting.
It's like an ADHD panadol lastsfor three or four hours, unless
you've got an allergy orsomething major.
It's interacting.
It's a pretty easy access.
You just take one, see how itworks.
I was actually really pissed offthat that was how other people

(17:43):
felt.
I thought, come on a second.
I've been in chaos, in insanityfor 36 years.
And the rest of you people?
How easy must it be?
That's how I felt.
I was actually sitting on thecouch thinking I have never felt
so relaxed, like I've got time.
My anxiety subsided and I had acup of tea, sat down, had to

(18:05):
think about what I might do andthen just did all of the things
easily, calmly.
It was weird.
It was so weird that I left oneon the counter that I told my
husband not to take and hepicked it up, took one to try,
which you should not do.
I definitely told him not totake and you know, he picked it
up, took one to try and whichyou should not do.

(18:25):
I definitely told him not toAbsolutely, and he said to me
afterwards that didn't work forme.
I felt completely normal.
Now this man did his passportapplication I've been asking him
to do for three years.
He went outside, cut down atree that had been hanging down
for five years and then calledfor someone to fix a fence, that

(18:46):
there was actually a dog thatwas running into our yard, that
I'd been asking him to fix thefence.
He did all of that, came backand goes.
It didn't work for me.
I felt fine whilst completingthese three tasks that I'd been
waiting for him to do for years,and we laughed for ages after
and couldn't believe thedifference.
Wow.

(19:07):
And that, for me, sold mebecause I just thought why have
I been doing this to myself?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
And it was actually that night.
I took a second one becauseafter you have the three or four
hours, you can take another,and I sat down with my kids,
played Uno, asked them abouttheir day and actually could
prioritize and plan what to do.
It's like, okay, well, we'veprobably got half an hour to
play Uno, I can still cookdinner and everything seemed to

(19:34):
flow naturally and easily.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Can't imagine doing that.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
It was only at that point it was so crazy it was.
There was actually at thatpoint that I could get an email
from the school, put it in thecalendar and write it down and
then go to the calendar andstart reading it, and I just
thought you can't tell me.
Well, for me anyway, personally, that lifestyle changes is

(20:00):
enough, because I felt like I'dbeen at school for years and
years and I was like she justneeds to apply herself, she just
needs to read the emails.
She just needs to try harder,be better.
And it was all my fault and Ijust started to feel like this
is actually not my fault.
I've been ripped off all ofthese years and I was pissed off

(20:21):
.
So, of course, me being me, andI am going to eventually answer
your question, nikki.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
I'm really enjoying this.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's really resonating.
Oh, I feel that because I ran acircle.
But I'm coming, I'm coming.
No, I was just like I need toknow, I need to know more.
And if you get on this thingabout ADHD, where you research
the absolute bejesus out of it,you know you have ADHD.
Right, if you've been told andthen you just leave it, then

(20:50):
that's kind of a bit more normal.
But when you go hunting hard,you know you have ADHD.
So I went through all theYouTube videos, everything about
mums, and it was reallydifficult because I couldn't
find a lot on the experience andthat was what led me to
podcasting.
I didn't want to talk about mybattle with depression, anxiety

(21:10):
and stress at all, but I alsofelt so blessed that I could
help my daughter and when shetried medication, the difference
in her was unbelievable, and itwas at that point I was like
the difference in her wasunbelievable and it was at that
point I was like at whatresponsibility do I have to help
people?
Because I was done such a solidby that psychologist that
helped me out.

(21:31):
There's so little known aboutit and there's, I don't think,
enough psychologists that areable and can see the signs
psychiatrists, pediatricianswe're still learning and I just
thought.
If I could just list out how Ifeel now and how I felt before,
I just felt the need to spreadthe message.
So when I wanted to podcast, itwas more about other people

(21:54):
bringing in the Aussie relatablemum experience to talk about
how it showed up for them.
That's how it started.
But I think the way that ADHDis it started, but I think the
way that ADHD is it just spreadand I think people like me who
listened to it got diagnosed andthere's thousands and thousands
of them now that then spreadthe word and, of course,

(22:14):
neurodiverse people.
We love each other.
So if someone gets diagnosed,they tell all of their friends,
who are probably allneurodivergent, and then
everyone wants to come on andtalk and it has been the most
validating experience.
A lot of people thank me for thepodcast.
It's a community podcast.
It's not monetized.
I don't have programs, I don'thave online subscriptions and

(22:37):
all that stuff and I have fullyrespect to people that do it
that way, absolutely, and Ithink they should be paid if
they need.
You know, absolutely.
Let's keep it going.
For me I haven't done that, butthe joy that I get in the
validation from the community issomething that is so special
and that's why I do it.
So that was a massively longanswer.

(22:58):
The other thing that I'm justgoing to throw out there, nikki,
that is really important for meto spread the message about
this is actually a primaryreason for the podcast is my
experience as a teenager.
We know that people with ADHDand you know what?
Let's just I know you're goingto ask me what ADHD is.
Let's, let me just ask my ownquestions to myself and then
answer them.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
No, I'm honestly, I'm just sitting here, mesmerized
and resonating, so please justgo.
Just go If you want to knowwhat ADHD is.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
It's like someone that like, asks themselves their
questions, answers them on apodcast and doesn't let the host
speak.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
That's the best podcast.
I hate podcasts where they'relike I just want to hear your
story.
I'm honestly I'm not hostinghere, I'm listening, so please,
please, just go.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Well, I know that you're talking about the what is
ADHD?
And look, yes, let's start atthe beginning.
So ADHD, it is a stupid name,right, it is not the right name.
I love the fact that autisticpeople and the autistic
community have stopped or theyhave become very clear that they
do not enjoy the word ASD.
It is that ASD is short forautism spectrum disorder.

(24:08):
They do not believe it's adisorder, it's a difference.
It's a difference in theirbrain.
You can't medicate, you can'tfix it.
It's just a different way thatthe brain works.
And I have autistic people inmy family and so I'm very versed
on the autistic community and Iabsolutely agree with that.
It sucks that ADHD is stillstuck with the D for disorder.

(24:31):
Adhd stands for attentiondeficit, hyperactive disorder.
It doesn't fit.
There is actually no issue withattention.
I don't believe there's anissue with attention.
I think it's a variableattention.
Yes, I have children in my house.
They can do three weeks worthof homeschooling in a day.

(24:52):
They can focus for 12, 16 hours.
It's hard to turn my daughteroff.
It's hard to turn me off.
Look at me, go, am I payingattention?
Absolutely, absolutely.
But if I'm doing, things I'mnot interested in are boring to
me.
They're not in my skill set.
I do struggle to pay attentionat the gym this morning.
It's not something I enjoydoing.

(25:13):
You know they do the whole.
This is what we're going to dotoday at the gym.
Oh, give me a million dollarsand I can't tell you what they
say at the end.
It's really difficult.
I don't know what they'retalking about.
My, my husband's a personaltrainer and he reckons every
time he trains me or I train,it's like I start again because
I'm so, so inattentive withthings that I don't really want

(25:36):
to do.
And children are like that too.
Adults are like that, and everyperson is different.
Everyone with ADHD is different.
You can break them up intothree types, if we had to, and
that would be inattention,hyperactivity or combined, which
is like you know the personthat's got both.
I have both.
I believe most people have both, but you know they break them

(25:57):
up.
Everyone seems to still beidentifying with the stigma of
the.
You know the eight-year-old boythat's disruptive, or you
disruptive, or he's in theclassroom, he's hitting people,
he's jumping around, he can'tsit on the mat.
It's very old school thinking.
However, there are still peopleout there that cannot see the
difference.
I am incredibly hyperactive,incredibly, but you wouldn't

(26:19):
know it as a child or as anadult because, yes, I will butt
in, I will talk over the top ofpeople, I get very excited, I'm
impulsive and I'm cognitivelyhyperactive as fuck.
I cannot switch off.
But can I sit and listen tothings I'm interested in?
Yes, so as a child, I was neverdiagnosed, and this is one of

(26:43):
the reasons a podcast exists,because if you're a mother
listening to this and youidentify with it, just be aware
of how your daughters present.
A lot of them are very internalalthough my son is very
internal too and he does notdisplay any disruptive things at
all but they're the kids thatwhen you get them home or they
get into the car, they losetheir mind.

(27:04):
They hold and hold and hold andthey want to be good but they
can't, or you know, they'rescared of getting the rights of
doing the wrong thing andthey'll mask so, what masking is
is when someone covers up theirdeficits.
So you know, for example, Iprobably wouldn't tell people

(27:25):
that I didn't know the Seesawapp login.
I would say that now openly,but at the time I wouldn't.
I would just nod and smile ohyes, I've got the library bag in
the car, just got to go grabthat and it's like covering up,
covering up.
But then later at night when Iwas in the shower, I would feel
like I'm failing.
I'm failing at this.
My poor child didn't have alibrary bag again.

(27:46):
What day is that thing on?
Why don't I know?
And it's that self-esteembeating up that can be really
hard on kids, and we know theyget so many more negative
messages too.
But if you were to take a boyand a girl with ADHD, this is a
good example, right?
And this is where I think itsucks for girls, because they

(28:06):
just don't get diagnosed as much.
Let's say that they're in theschooling environment, or it
could be the working environment, any structured environment
really.
And let's say there's a pieceof homework.
So, okay, the boy is there andhe hasn't done his.
He's lest it to the last minuteand he might realize it may be
seven or eight o'clock at nightbut he's busy gaming or doing

(28:28):
his things.
He doesn't care enough and hegoes.
I just hope that tomorrow no onenotices and he doesn't say
anything to anybody, turns uphands.
Nothing in Happens enough timethe teacher or, you know, the
workplace or the extracurricularplace will eventually say
something to the parent.
Your child has not been doinganything at all.
You know, these are the reasonsand we're recommending this for

(28:49):
an assessment.
They actually can pick it uppretty easily.
The daughter with societypressures and I'm just
generalising, but this is what Isee a lot is that the girl will
get to 7 o'clock and they willgo oh my God, I haven't started
and they will be bound withanxiety.
Perfectionism kicks in, societycues they want to be the good

(29:12):
girl.
Good girl kicks in, right, whatdo they do?
They go to their mother orfather you know parental whoever
and says to them oh my God, Ihave not done my project.
Mum, dad, whoever it is sits upwith them till 10 o'clock at
night.
So the mum or dad is reallyupset with the child.
At this point, right, they'relike look, this is not good.

(29:34):
Every time you need somethingdue, this is this whole big
thing.
And they start to piece ittogether at home.
But from the teacher's point ofview, the daughter hands in the
piece of homework on time.
She doesn't say anything.
And then when their parentsstart going at home, gee, she's
hard to get ready in the morning.
She's got a lot of anxiety.
She doesn't have anything thatshe's supposed to have.

(29:56):
I took her to school again.
She didn't have her shoes, hadto go home again and there's all
these things that keepsmounting up.
But when they talk to theteacher, the teacher says
everything's fine.
So I took my daughter to apediatrician from when she was
two.
I took her over and over again.
I talked to the prep teacher andthe grade one teacher, who said
to me it's absolutely not ADHD.

(30:17):
I even have an email list right.
This is hilarious of meemailing the teacher in grade
one, going I think she mighthave ADHD.
The person wrote back and putI've had those people with ADHD
before, trust me, it's not thatMaybe she can't hear.
Go and get a hearing tested.
And then I wrote back and putcan you also tell me when
library day is?

(30:37):
And seesaw passwords?
I don't seem to know what'shappening.
Could you ring me?
I don't understand the homeworkand it's like all written with
terrible grammar, like reallyquickly, I'm clearly on the fly
somewhere and then she's writtenback no problems.
Tried to call you again.
You're not answering.
Still have you blocked mynumber?
It's like the email trial isjust the best red flag which is

(31:02):
reassuring me constantly thatthere's nothing going on.
I'm going.
There really seems like thereis anyway.
Um, so my, my big point is thatwhen I went into grade seven,
very hyperactive and impulsive,I joined all of the teams.
I was very um interested inbeing the good girl.
I love the dopamine hit ofgetting a certificate being the

(31:25):
captain.
I loved it all and theaccolades.
It was a real dopamine hit forme.
So I joined in all the all theclubs and it was a long drive on
the bus.
It wasn't in our localcommunity.
It was a massive transition forme, um, from a very small school
that you know.
My mom knew the office lady.
We caught up with her on theweekends.

(31:45):
You know it was a very, verycocooned environment.
I came from to a big school allgirls elite and I know that's a
privileged place to be able togo to a private school.
It's still stressful.
It actually is very stressfulIf you have an ADHD, hyperactive
mind or look any neurodivergentchild or look I'd argue whether

(32:08):
it's the right environment forany child.
But anyway, that particularschool actually had an
investigation after I left, forbecause I had so many girls in
the eating disorder clinic inthe hospital after I left.
But anyway.
So my point is that for me, Iended up having a huge breakdown
when I was 14, 15.
And I broke down hard.

(32:30):
And that was back in a timewhen no one knew what depression
was, no one knew what anxietywas, and it was definitely
unheard of for a child whoseemingly had nothing going on.
He was doing so well theyweren't an adult.
Why were they doing so?
Well, what's the problem?
I also masked for my parentsbecause I didn't understand what

(32:52):
was happening and I didn't feelsafe, or my parents were
beautiful, so it's not aboutthem, it was more about me maybe
not wanting to break the goodgirl facade, oh yeah, and it
sort of went on for a longperiod.
And recently I've been told acouple of different times that
I'm autistic as well, and I'mpretty confident that I am.

(33:14):
I think I probably haveimposter syndrome at the moment,
where it's difficult for me tosay I am autistic, and I think
probably in that six to 12months I'll look back at this
and go.
I don't know why.
I had a problem saying with it,but I feel like at the moment
I'm not autistic enough, or youknow imposter syndrome that I'm
taking it from somebody I'mdoing well yeah.
Like what?
What right do I have to saythat?

(33:36):
But I have been diagnosed withautism and I've looked back on a
lot of the periods of my lifewith this roller coaster and I
can see autistic burnout.
A lot of girls who are autisticgo through that, particularly
in the transition to high school.
And for me the other thing isas well.
It's massive.
And see, from the parents'point of view too, they're like

(33:58):
well, go to school, that's whatyou do.
So I didn't have a break.
There was no time to rest.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
No mental health days then?

Speaker 3 (34:09):
No, no, no, my parents were definitely not
about mental health days.
It was definitely a suck up andkeep going attitude, which was
kind of the time that was thenorm then, wasn't it?
That was the norm Mental healthbreak.
Like people would notunderstand that at all, anyway.
So by the time that I was kindof caught out, I had some very

(34:33):
serious, heavy stuff going on.
You know I was attemptingsuicide.
I had a pretty good eatingdisorder running pretty
ingrained and I was in a reallybad place At that time.
The thought pattern was thatyou drop your child off at the
psychiatrist or the doctor'slike a bag of potatoes, fix that

(34:53):
one.
That was the mentality, yeah,and I was given a lot of
antidepressants, drugs to sleep,uppers, downers, valiums, a lot
of therapy and my poor parentspaid for it.
All took me around differentplaces.
None of it helped.
It went on for years.
I actually think a lot of theantidepressants made me more
suicidal, if I'm honest, oh gosh, and the fact that they kept

(35:16):
putting them up because theydidn't know what else to do.
I remember trying to eat cerealand my hands were shaking so
much I couldn't even eat on thespoon.
I was so medicated and keptputting the same environment to
school over and over and overagain and 100%.
I look back on that time as thehardest time in my life,

(35:37):
definitely lived a full life.
My parents both have passedaway who I was very close with
and that would not compare towhat I went through as a child.
So I always back up the kidsand I always say to people that
you know they say they haveschool, can't, or they're down,
or I think it's ridiculous, whatdo they have to worry about?

(35:58):
I actually always say to theparents now, you don't know,
though, this actually might bethe hardest time in their life.
They have no reserves, they'vegot no ability to cope and what
are they going through.
So for me, I look back on thatand the message that I got hard
in my heart was there issomething wrong with me, because

(36:20):
why am I taking these meds?
Why am I in these therapies?
Everybody knows, because it wasvery public, you know gossip,
and it's hard to cover thatstuff up too when you're
obviously physically andmentally going so badly.
And I was rebelling, drinking,I was all over the shop.
So for me, looking back, I justthink if I was diagnosed or

(36:45):
treated differently or givingneuroaffirming therapy,
medicated properly, which mylittle brother was getting the
medication I now take, oh,you're joking, which was?
not his fault.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
No, not his fault.
It was not his fault, but I'mlighting up.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
But the disparity, I'm lighting up 20 bloody
tablets and he's just taking oneand feeling better.
That I take now and feelinggood, right and the injustice of
it.
Looking back kills me andthat's why I'm here, that's why
I do the podcast, because I justwant other people to know and I

(37:21):
want daughters to be saved fromthis crap that I went through,
and I think the teenage girls Imean.
Yes, of course we live in aprivileged country and I get
that there's some awful stuffgoing on, but let's not look
over the young girls that arecoming through that are in
absolute pieces at 14, 15, 16years old.

(37:42):
And I a% know that I was in anautistic burnout because I look
back at what helped me.
How did I get out of it?

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I would love to know.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Wasn't it with the therapies or the meds?

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Well, actually this is an interesting story.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yes, I want to know because, as an ex-high school
teacher.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Part of me wants to just say oh, school's so
different.
It's a lot harder, and it it is.
There's a lot of pressure, butI don't know that the basic
environment has changed.
So I think, while it has gotharder and there is more
pressure, I think the baselineis still there from 30 years ago
.
That would stress any like mostchildren out, I think.

(38:22):
So I would love to know whathas worked, what worked for you?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Well, again being diagnosed has really helped me,
because one of the things thatI've done this year which has,
hands down, been one of the mostinteresting things I've done is
I actually thought to myself Ihave been diagnosed with pretty
much nearly everything.
At this point I would like toknow what is going on with my
brain, and I think people thatare neurodiverse, adhd, autistic
, particularly women, often misssocial cues.

(38:54):
So I've been through somesignificant sexual assaults in
my life where you know you'retold later on that you deserved
it, or you know you led them onor whatever it is.
I honestly, really my intentionwas never to do that.
I don't know looking back,because I've been so gaslit, and
then I just think that makessense if I'm autistic, because

(39:15):
I'm not picking up what's goingon necessarily as well, you know
, is it PTSD which I've beendiagnosed with?
What is it?
And so I sat down with aclinical psych who's actually
become a really good friend ofmine, and we went through
everything, everything, all ofit, all of the testing, and it's
cognitively too memory, all ofit as to how my brain works.

(39:39):
Hang on a second, I've lostwhere I was going.
Okay, great, yes.
So when she diagnosed me with asautistic, I wanted to unpack my
teenage years.
What happened?
Why, why, why did I get better?
What happened?
And I can only put it down toone thing, which I've always

(40:03):
said but made no sense, whichI've always said but made no
sense when I was diagnosed withautism and the psychologist took
me through autistic burnout, Isaid to her do you think that I
wasn't actually depressed or hadanxiety?
I mean, I was at 15, diagnosingmyself with bipolar off the DSM
in the library, because I knewthere was something innately not

(40:27):
right with me, something goingon.
Because this isn't justdepression anxiety.
I am off my rocker, and thatwas all.
Dismissed, dismissed, dismissed, dismissed.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
What a scary awful place to be.
It must have felt so lonely.
It was awful.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Well, that's why I was so suicidal, because I was
like this is just, I actuallythink.
I was like this is just, Iactually think there's nobody,
and even though my poor parentsanyway.
So, basically, my high schooleventually I went from grade
seven to 10.
I didn't go to the last twoyears of high school, I think
maybe I went a couple of weekshere and there.
I was enrolled but I didn'tattend really, and then the

(41:05):
decision was made that I shouldgo to college at a different
place.
It was a co-ed college, a bitof a lesser school, and my
brother went there and he didn'twant me to go there because I
think he was pretty ashamed ofmy behavior.
Clearly I'd been off the railsfor years and it was kind of
like a last ditch attempt.
Right before I finished year 10, it was my birthday and this is

(41:28):
kind of before the internet wasbig, so there wasn't a lot of
research.
But my parents had made friendswith these people that were
really into Tony Robbins and hewas doing a conference in Sydney
and I think my mom was prettymuch like anything at this point
is a good thing to do.
She had offered for me to goswimming with the dolphins at

(41:50):
SeaWorld, because she thought Imight have a magical experience
and have a spiritual alignment.
She wasn't even spiritual,right, she just was so desperate
, Just wanted something to helpright.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Oh, how's the love?

Speaker 3 (42:03):
And she's thinking what we're doing.
Oh, she's so beautiful.
I just miss her so much and Iwish I could talk to her,
because I felt like she reallytook it on as her own fault when
it really wasn't we just wedidn't have the knowledge in
society, then we just didn'tit's just shit, I really wanted
to talk to her about it, butanyway.
So anyway, she said to me I'lltake you up to this Tony Robbins

(42:26):
seminar in Sydney and I waslike, oh, actually I'd done
reading on him and I was reallyinto mental health, clearly
because I'd been through a lotand I was attempting to come off
medication because I knew thatit wasn't working.
And my parents didn't even carethat I was coming off
medication, to be honest,because I think they just
thought, well, who cares at thispoint that I was coming off
medication, to be honest,because I think they just

(42:47):
thought, well, who cares at thispoint?
She's been on it for threeyears, nothing's helping.
So I was basically housebound.
I loved being at home, which isa very autistic burnout thing
that you just want to be a homealone, in four walls, quietly,
and I loved having my mum in thehouse, not with me, just like
they are like a body doublingthing, and we were pretty tight,

(43:09):
even though I was going througha really hard time.
Anyway, she took me up to thisconference and it was the Live
it.
Whatever their introduction oneis Power of Now.
No, that's the book.
Anyway, it was Tony Robbins'first introduction workshop and
when I went there I was on I waslike this is, hands down, the

(43:33):
most fascinating, most coolthing I have ever done and
remember this is way beforepersonal development was cool.
These people were like treehuggers.
That was the thought patternback then.
It was like, oh, the greens andtree huggers and homeschoolers
and hippies andyou know, tony Robbins, people
all in one weird lefty bucket.
That was the, that was, youknow, and now it's all

(43:57):
mainstreamed and everything, butback then it was a really it
wasn't cool.
I suppose is the point.
It was very progressive, yeah,and he really talked about
health and wellness and about,you know, succeeding and I don't
know.
It's just all personaldevelopment stuff and I just
switched on in a way that Inever have it's like that uh
autistic kind of specialinterest kicked in.

(44:18):
And for me, psychology, mentalhealth, has been my focus since
I had hit that first workshopwith him.
I walked in, he did theintroduction and I was like I
mean I hadn't done cocaine, butI was like I wasn't thinking I
can imagine this is it.
Like this is a high that I havenever experienced before and for

(44:41):
me it just unlocked my mind andspecial interest.
And autistic people generallyget not generally, but often get
misdiagnosed as bipolar becauseit's that roller coaster of up
and downs, right, and thatlooked very bipolar-y.
How can you come out of thatserious depression like that and
pop back up on a high from hell?

(45:02):
How can you do that?
You can if you're autistic.
So, I came out of the burnout, Itook myself off meds.
I did have some very quiet timeat home with my family and I
read and read, and read,listened to all of the CDs and
by the time I hit year 11, I wason fire.
I picked psychology, sociology,all of the human sciences and

(45:25):
you know I went back to some ofmy old patterns, if I'm honest,
because you know I was stillunmedicated ADHD.
So I did go back, you know, didthe school leader thing and I
did go back pretty hard.
I drank probably a bit morebinge drinkery, a bit more
acceptable teenage behavior asopposed to just you know.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Teenage self-medication was binge
drinking.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, exactly, and you know, when you don't have
any impulse control and someoneyou know you're sharing a bottle
of vodka, it's like, well,you're just chugging it at that
point because you're so excited.
Yeah, and you know people.
I remember my dad teaching mehow to measure it, like I don't
think he realised that I'm not ameasuring cup person.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
And A where am I going to find a shot Like where
am I going to find a measuringLike that would have been lost?
Who does that?

Speaker 3 (46:09):
I just drank it next to a fire.
I fell into the fire one day Iwas fully nuts, but anyway.
So I was absolutely on fire andI went through, nearly got a
perfect score in year 12, gotinto psychology and I've always,
always said that the number onething I wanted to do was to

(46:30):
sort out, I suppose, what I wentthrough as a teenager because I
couldn't understand it and helpother teenagers not go through
it.
It's only been in the lastcouple of years that I've
realized well recently, that Irealized I'm autistic and it was
a burnout.
And when I listened to theautistic burnout courses from
Tony Upwood and Michelle Garnettwho are incredible if anyone's

(46:51):
interested in doing more on this, they are incredible.
I'm actually interviewing themin my podcast this Wednesday,
which I'm very excited about.
So they actually talk aboutautistic burnout.
They talk about girls and theytalk about how many girls have
been saved from themselves, fromhomeschooling because of the
environment, and it's basicallyjust a recipe for disaster, but

(47:16):
nobody knows.
And then resilience someparents think resilience is to
continue to push your child backin because you know if you stop
making them go, they're nevergoing to go back there, which
probably would seem true to somepeople, but so for me.
I love to spread the messageabout what neurodivergency looks
like in women, because I justthink it kills me to think that

(47:39):
my daughter could have gonethrough that too.
That would have been highlytriggering for me.
I would have taken her to apaediatrician.
We would have given herantidepressants.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Can you imagine the triggers from that?
Because it would have.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Oh my God, it just would be a mess.
So I suppose and you know,that's one of the reasons that
we did that such a successfulepisode together on
homeschooling, which came out ofnowhere, nikki.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
It really did, didn't it?
Just when I was?

Speaker 3 (48:03):
starting to question is this the right place for my
daughter?
And then I spoke to you and waslike oh no, this is now putting
me on a path of homeschooling,which I was not expecting.
You haven't listened to ourpodcast together.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
You should have a listen to Jane's podcast and
listen to the cogs clicking ofher realisation that she's going
to have to start homeschooling.
I could see it happening.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
It just all dropped in.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
It really did, and I could see that, oh God, oh God,
please, no, please, no, I'm notready, I don't want to.
You could see it all happeninglive and I was very much sorry,
not sorry, sorry, not sorry likehopefully it works and I was
very much sorry, not sorry,sorry, not sorry.
Like hopefully it works.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Oh, but you know, what I did an episode on, you
know, for your daughter, sorry.
I did an episode on ADHD andautism and there was an autistic
psychologist that I interviewedand then I was ADHD and we
talked about the differencesbetween us and the way we
present.
But everything she said I wassaying and then you can hear all

(49:11):
these long pauses when I'm like, oh shit, I think I'm autistic.
You can just hear me on theregoing oh, I do that too.
And she's going that's a veryautistic thing.
And then at the end of it she'slike you just need to get
assessed and it was like I don'twant really that live, but then
it's so powerful to have it.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
It is, it is and it's so affirming for others to see.
Yes, you've had very hard anddark times, but there's a light.
There's a light and there's,and it might be really difficult
, a to get a diagnosis or B tofind the right medication or all
of the above, but there's, youknow, there's people and there's

(49:51):
examples and I just think, gosh, what you're doing is you
imagine the teenage?
I can't tell you the amount ofteenagers and particularly girls
, that had you know school can't.
And I look at them now, knowingwhat I know, because I haven't
been teaching in that system foreight years now seven, eight
years and I just think, oh, whatI know.
Now I would say to the parent isit just anxiety?

(50:14):
I don't think it is.
Yes, I think the environmentmight be causing anxiety, but
there's a reason that we're notable to cope in these systems.
These brains alert, we're onhigh alert, going danger, danger
, danger.
I'm protecting, trying toprotect myself in this
environment and that often leadsto that burnout and shutdown.

(50:35):
And I can see that now.
I can see in that school carthat shutdown and that burnout
and I just, oh, I wish I couldgo back and let them all know.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
And the other thing I feel forparents is because sometimes you
know they could listen to apodcast like this or um, you
know, see something on tv ortiktok.
They could then go to the gpwho you know says no, no,
they're fine, as it's happenedto me before, don't even get the
referral.
You could even get to thepediatrician.

(51:07):
Wait the year, pay the sixhundred dollars to get somebody
that doesn't see the signs andsay, no, they fine.
And then the parent, infairness to them, goes well,
we've ruled that out, yeah, next, and then continues on.
So it's so important toadvocate for your child
regardless.
So if you have a child,particularly a girl, who

(51:30):
struggles to get ready forschool, stomach aches is a big
one.
They generally have a lot ofstomach aches and they are, you
know, told that they need toapply themselves a bit more.
They talk a lot, they're veryintense, you know, but then they
have a lot of anxiety at home.
They often don't have thethings that they're supposed to

(51:50):
have.
A lot of them are veryinattentive but also hyperactive
.
And you know they're the kidthat follows you around talking
and talking, and talking.
I've got two of them.
And you know they're the kidthat follows you around talking
and talking, and talking.
I've got two of them.
And you know, sometimes asparents, we just know there's
something not right.
And you know it can be reallygood to go into a Facebook group
in your local community.

(52:11):
You know Sunshine Coast, mums,is where we go, nikki.
But, you know there's otherareas of course as well and say
is there someone neuroaffirming,is there a clinical
psychologist or a pediatricianthat understands neurodivergence
in girls?
Ask those questions first,because otherwise you risk going
to somebody that isn't up todate.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I want to thank you for the resources that you put
out, because I have downloadedthem and I plan on reading them,
but I haven't got there yetbecause I haven't put it in my
calendar and I haven't got analert saying it's time to read
these.
Oh, it might be a red flag,green flag, I'm going to call it
.
There's a few red flags withyou.

(52:52):
You think if you could haveseen me trying to get onto
Jane's podcast and the absolutemess.
I arrived in late skidding inthe doorway, headphones not
working and I podcast for aliving.
This is what I do, so it shouldjust be organized and routine,

(53:12):
but it is still not, for somereason, even today.
Jane said can you send me thatZoom link?
I went hmm, that would be ahandy thing to send as a
confirmation email.
I have templates.
I didn't send you the template.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
I love it because you can so pick it up, because when
you came in you were soflustered.
Then you told me about all thethings that you had done to try
to ensure that you were on time.
So you'd done all this extrastuff to like try and scaffold
yourself.
All of it had stuffed up, yeah,and we had all these emails
because you'd asked someone toemail me so I didn't have your
contacts this whole mess by thetime you arrived and you

(53:49):
finished apologising right,that's when we didn't even press
record.
I was like can I just confirm,do you have ADHD press record?
I was like, can I just confirm,do you have ADHD?
Because I thought how does she,does she?
I was so confused because yourbio said you didn't have it.
Yeah, all of the likeindicators were there still
haven't gone and actually got adiagnosis.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
And it's funny because my sister and I joke
about it as well.
She's way more hyperactive thanme can can do, quote, unquote,
50 things at once, shaking myhead at that, and we bring the
chaos, you know.
And it's only because I'vechosen homeschooling, I've
chosen to run my own business,I've chosen to do all these

(54:29):
things that allow this to notallow me to be fired.
You can't fire me for beinglate, you can't fire me for
doing these things.
That I'm succeeding in thisbusiness and because I surround
myself by other women whounderstand it as well, guarantee
there would be a dozen, a dozenassessments that would be
positive in this office.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Oh, absolutely, and you know your, your clientele, I
would imagine, are going to bepretty neurodivergent.
The wildlings, morris, kindyand you know some vacation cares
that I've been to I've stayedat, some I've left, you know
other ones, and the chats thatI've had are always very
neurodivergent.
I always end up in a deep andmeaningful, with somebody you

(55:13):
know standing next to somemudslide and my children are
going down there repeatedly withtheir kids going, psycho,
throwing mud at us.
And there's, you know, someonethere going.
Do you feel really stressed out?
All the time?
I do, and then, like changingthe subject, I think going.
I booked this non-refundabletrip to Fiji.
Should I go?
I don't.
Actually it's on the creditcard, I haven't paid for it,
it's just always the most crazyconversation, jeez, the forest

(55:34):
makes me feel good.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
I feel so calm down here.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Oh yeah, totally the scaffolding, but then we talk
about things that are veryneurodivergent afterwards.
One thing I do want to touch onbefore we go Nikki, because I'm
imagining there's going to bepeople on here who are probably
possibly going to beneurodivergent, because that is
going to be the group.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
I can already pick our main listeners nodding along
.
I can see who is listeninggoing.
Oh, please tell me more, jane.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
So what?
I'm imagining that they'regoing to be thinking this could
be off.
I'm imagining that they're goingto be listening going.
Well, that sounds really nicefor that lady Jane.
I wish her well on her journey.
And they shut off the podcastand move along with their life,
because who prioritizesthemselves?
Nobody.
I would not have got a diagnosiseither and I wouldn't have

(56:26):
looked for medication either.
The reason I told that story isbecause I was rock bottomy when
I was like I'm going to have todo something because I am in.
It's too much.
I've now gotten to a pointwhere I must do something and I
really like to spread the wordon the benefits of a diagnosis.
Yes, please, for an adult andfor a mother, right, let's just

(56:47):
strip it right back.
Pre-medication, jane, and I'mgoing to be brutally honest.
I had never sat down and playedwith my children.
And I'm going to be brutallyhonest, I had never sat down and
played with my children.
Reason being too stressed, tooanxious, wanted to set up lots
of things, love my childrencompletely.
Never sat down and played,because I would sit there and

(57:09):
then feel a sense of doom thatwhat I should be doing, and
never be able to relax, and thenI would also be very impatient,
relax, and then I would also bevery impatient, impulsive, and
I would then be on my phone, nottexting, writing down a to-do
list of other things I should bedoing, and I would never, ever,
ever be able to be present ever, never knew when school was,

(57:30):
never knew any of the things.
Right, obviously all the stuff,but in terms of actually being
a mother and a wife, I couldnever sit down and have lunch
with my husband.
I didn't give him enough time.
I would finish his sentencesvery impatient, bit of mum rage
and a bit angry.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
I need my husband to listen to this.
The old cutting him off andfinishing his sentences is his
pet peeve.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
And then just like, oh, and there's like a long
story and you just want to getto it.
You're like, yeah, okay, sothen you left, and then you got
home and you had lunch, is thatit?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
yeah, I just was quite abrasive in my I know how
this is going to finish.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Let me finish it for you totally exactly.
And my husband would say to meyou can be quite rude sometimes.
That would be his what he wouldsay to me quite often.
And then he would come over totouch me and I'd physically
withdraw and I'd be like why areyou touching me?
I have so much on my mind rightnow, leave me alone.
That would be my generaldemeanor.

(58:29):
So now, having taken medication, right?
Who again?
My husband didn't want me totake medication.
I took it for a little bit andthen wanted to see how I'd feel
if I came off.
I didn't tell him I was offmedication, but two hours in he
said to me Jane, you got to gofor a walk or something because
you're off your head.
That was what he said to me,right?

(58:49):
And I was like okay, somedication really is a necessity
because you get used to the wayit makes you feel.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
And everybody else does too says me interrupting.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Everybody else does so people.
So I take Vyvanse, which is along acting dexamphetamine
version right, you can find outmore about meds if you want to
go on the podcast and all thedifferent types, et cetera, et
cetera.
But basically that's the one Itake.
It's different for everybody,so don't think that's the one If
you're just like me.
Everyone's body is different,so that's not necessarily the
right one for you.
But so I take one in themorning and sometimes in the
afternoon.
I take like a top up.

(59:24):
So it's long acting, it goesfor eight hours.
And then sometimes, if myhusband's working at night, I
will also take an afternoon oneto get me through.
When I take medication I feelcalm, I feel like I have enough
time.
I feel like things areachievable.
I can just jump in there andget the list done.
I'm able to get down on theground with my kids and say to
them hey, it's okay, let's justfind the tennis ball that you

(59:47):
need to take to school.
I understand that rushing themtakes longer.
A lot of the parentingstrategies that I'd heard I'd
never been able to do, and Irealize now that I had not taken
enough time with my kids toactually explain to them what
was going to happen before wewent.
I never allowed enough time inthe planning.
I needed to allow 10 to 15minutes to get them in the car.

(01:00:09):
If I don't allow that time forthem, that's on me, but yet I
would operate as if I didn'thave children and expect to get
in the car at the last minuteand they just follow me not
having them not having packedproperly.
Oh no, I mean, I still strugglewith shoes we've gone on net,
we've actually walked acrosstarmacs multiple times back and

(01:00:31):
forward without shoes, becausethey won't let you on the plane
without shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
We lost three pairs on our recent road trip.
Three pairs in less than a week.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
It's just.
It's just terrible, isn't it?
But anyway.
So now, medicated Jane, I willbe able to have lunch with my
husband and I can actually breakit down for him what's going on
with me.
I can say to him hey, it'sactually really good for me if
you can just let me know whenyou're coming home and I'm happy
to make time for you.
They say that Vyvanse doesn'temotionally regulate people.
I really beg to differ.

(01:01:00):
Every single mother I havespoken to is emotionally
regulated better on Vyvanse.
I'm able to be more patientwith my kids, I can sit down and
play cards with them, I can dothe gardening with my daughter,
I can take the time that I needwith her and I am all around a
much better person and I can doall of the tasks easily.

(01:01:23):
Go to get the phone from theiremail, I can put it onto the
calendar.
I suppose I'm just happier,calmer.
My kids are happier If you aresomebody and you're like oh, but
I'm just going to prioritize mychildren, because there's only
one that's struggling at school,or there's one that's
disruptive, or there's onethat's not learning, I won't

(01:01:44):
worry about myself.
I would say think about theplane where they say put your
own mask on before you putsomeone else's mask on.
If you were going to medicateone person in your family, it
should be the mother.
Make it you.

(01:02:04):
We are the nucleus, we are themost important, we are the VIP.
If you're off, everyone's off.
I think prioritising adiagnosis for a mother is, hands
down, the most important thing.
I medicated myself first and itactually got me to a point
where I was able to thencoordinate a paediatrician, pick
one, get a referral, take themthere.
Couldn't do that before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
That's overwhelming, the thought of that is
overwhelming.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Totally, but why you can't do that if you're not
medicated yourself.
And obviously some people don'tneed it.
They can't.
I understand that, but I'm justsaying for women who aren't
even considering it.
I think it's really a priority.
And again, this has been ajourney for me too.
Even when I was medicatedmyself, I still didn't medicate

(01:02:43):
my kids.
I thought, oh no, their brainsare learning.
I wouldn't medicate a child.
I was medicated as a child.
Look how that turned out for me, right?
Okay?
So I went to the pediatrician,not wanting medication
particularly.
I actually wanted some help forone of my children toilet
training and some other stuffand she actually squared me up

(01:03:03):
in the eye.
This is the best pediatricianon the coast that I'd verified
with a lot of different people.
If it wasn't her, I would haveignored her and thought I knew
better.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
You've been so lucky with some of your providers.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Oh no, Well, I'm actually someone who waits.
I will sit and wait and callthem repeatedly until I get in.
So I'm a real pest.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Yeah, good hot tip.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I'm a real pest and I also research who they're
friends with GPs and I go thereand get referrals from them and
I ring repeatedly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Nice so hot tip, you heard it here.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
You can coordinate that medicated.
So hot tip, you heard it hereyou can coordinate that
medicated, so anyway.
So I'm there with my daughterand the pediatrician looks me in
the eye and said I don'tunderstand why you, who has ADHD
, who takes ADHD medication,would deprive your daughter from

(01:03:56):
taking it.
Ooh, stab me in the heart whydon't you?
I said to her oh man, it washard.
But I actually said to her giveit to me fast and hard because
I like it, which probably was,but then I had to pretend I was
okay with it.
Anyway, I said to her okay,explain to me, like you know,
how that's going to work.
And I had lots of questions andshe explained to me
neurodiplasticity in the brainand gave me research articles

(01:04:17):
which I went home and read.
Now what we do know, and I'mhappy to provide references on
this this isn't me talking fromsome TikTok video.
This is from a pediatrician andI've read the study that came
out of a psychiatrist who hasstudied ADHD.
They actually studied 10,000people with ADHD and children.
They talked about how childrenwith ADHD that are unmedicated

(01:04:38):
are more likely to be unemployed, go to jail, be impulsive, have
underachievement at school,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
blah, and about what thebenefits are long-term.
We know that if you scan achild with ADHD, you scan their
brain.
Their brain is going to besmaller in areas, it's going to
be underdevelopeded and it doesnot work as well as a child

(01:04:59):
who's neurotypical.
So they're basically doingtheir best, right?
My children had average marks.
They weren't underachieving, soI thought they were fine,
they're fine aren't they?
But then she said to me so whatif they're gifted?
So what if you're deprivingthem?
Then she actually showed me thestudy and she showed me about

(01:05:21):
how and the percentages in thestudy that the children's brain
if you give them ADHD medication, proper ones for their brain,
that's prescribed properly,their brain will actually mature
and evolve and heal itself andend up a neurotypical brain at
25 or younger, depending on howfast their frontal lobe develops

(01:05:42):
.
So if you want to have yourchild have a chance of operating
neurotypically and not takingmedication long-term, medicate
them early and that for me haspushed me.
I medicate mine and I checkeverything.
I'm nuts on research.
I don't take for face valuewhat someone tells me.
I medicate two of my childrennow.

(01:06:03):
Let me tell you the benefitsare out of this world for them
and it's not about behavior.
We're not medicating forconvenience.
I can parent my kids fineunmedicated.
It is a bit easier medicated,let me tell you, but it's more
the fact that they get morepositive responses from people.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Oh, and it's that, isn't it the difference in the
negative feedback loop?
On your self-esteem and yourself-confidence and your
thoughts about your intelligence.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
That alone forms a brain and forms an opinion.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, I don't want my childgoing.
There's something wrong with me.
You know my son was alreadysaying to me I'm a terrible
reader, I can't learn.
I hate this.
I hate that it's turned himaround.
He was in the bottom.
I think he was in the bottomone or two.
He couldn't read at all.
He's gone up all this way onthe readers, gone up all this

(01:06:54):
way on the readers.
And actually I just had himtested.
You wouldn't believe he'sgifted.
I would never have thought that.
Oh, she called it, she bloodycalled it I know Well, only in a
specific area, yeah, but he'snot gifted all around.
But I suppose what I'm sayingis I started to see it
differently because I think Idon't want my children at 35

(01:07:16):
years old to go geez, mom, mylife would have been different
if I had medicated, and now I'mmedicated forever because my
brain's stuffed.
I'm already an adult, I'm doneright, I've got to make the best
of what I've got.
But they don't.
And I just think.
And then also as well, if youthink about all the therapies

(01:07:36):
right, and all the sitting downand teaching your child about
teamwork, I've got one who's notvery good at teamwork.
He got the best and fairestlast year for his sport but they
actually said to me he's notthe fairest, he's the best, but
you need to talk to him abouthis fairness, which I completely
agreed with.
His team's very woeful, but Iwas doing all these therapies

(01:07:58):
and sitting down with him andvideos on teamwork and being a
leader and all this stuff.
It didn't work.
He was just a pest, a negativepest.
Medicated, he will actuallypass the ball.
He will say well done to otherpeople, he will wait his turn
and socially he now is havingall these wins and he's getting
all this positive reinforcementand so it's not about medicating

(01:08:21):
for convenience.
I really disagree with that.
But I get why people say it,because I was like that too, but
I look at it now and think it'sactually only the entitled that
get to be diagnosed andmedicated.
It's the people that can affordit, that have the time that
have the parent and have tofight for their daughters.
It sucks.

(01:08:42):
Yeah, but if you're in thatposition and you can do it, it's
worth it.
It's really worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Oh, thank you for that.
Kick up the absolute ass today.
I feel like we've had a greatexchange.
I have talked a lot, but Nikkiif there's anyone who wants more
information.
Yes, please.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
Oh, I know, Nikki, so look, I know that I've given
you a lot of information.
It's probably overwhelming.
If you are someone that likesto read, I have written all of
the resources myself on thewebsite.
Imagine the most detailed ofall detail.
There's one on adult diagnosis.
There's one on childrendiagnosis the children.
One also has early interventionin the NDIS.

(01:09:24):
Yes, the NDIS does not includeADHD, but there's other ways to
get in for your kids.
If you get in under seven, youcan get in under any
developmental concern.
You can get in so manydifferent ways.
If you get in early before yourchild's seven, you don get in
under any developmental concern.
You can get in so manydifferent ways If you get in
early before your child's seven.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
You don't need a diagnosis.
They can get help until they'renine.
Nine's pretty good, that's sohelpful and it's all through the
NDIS.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
It's all diagnosable.
There's also other paymentsthrough Centrelink that you can
get if your child is diagnosedbefore seven.
If they are autistic, there's$10,000 per child.
It's worth it If you can findthe right person.
Even if it's $2,000 inassessment, if you have autism
in there, you're going to get 10grand back from Centrelink.

(01:10:09):
There's ways to do it.
Look it up on the resources onmy website.
There's absolutely no fees.
Send me an email.
I've got my email listedeverywhere.
I always write back because I'mjust passionate.
I don't need to make money andpush you into anything.
Just email me, I'll help you.
I'll probably regret sayingthat.
The other thing is the adultdiagnosis pathway.

(01:10:29):
It's all there in black andwhite.
It can be tricky to navigate.
Don't get confused.
Follow along.
I've also got a Facebook group.
People can write in there.
I've stopped answering DMs.
Just write it into the Facebookgroup.
I guarantee an answer on everyone.
It's just so many people askthe same thing.
The help is there.

(01:10:50):
It is tricky.
We can do it.
I can do it and I was notsomebody who I thought could
have done it either.
I really, really encourageanybody listening to get
proactive follow along.
Download something, get started.
It's worth it.
I am so blessed and happy to bemedicated and diagnosed.
It's changed my life.

(01:11:11):
My daughter's life will betransformed, particularly from
you, nikki, as well, with thehomeschooling.
I just think she's set updifferently.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
And I think yeah, I think that combo, I just think
and I think that's the beauty isthere's superpowers come
through.
Then you know, and I think weall do have those superpowers
but to be able to A provide anenvironment where she's not
stressed, b have the medication,you're going to just watch her
soar.
She's not going to fly, she'sjust going to soar.
I can't wait to check back in,absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
Absolutely, it's.
Yeah, it's.
Look, I'm going to.
I shouldn't stop talkingbecause I know I've just.
This is probably going to bethe longest episode of all time.
No, but I'm really passionateabout giving the message out
there.
It's so important to me and ifyou're listening, it's worth it.
Go seek help.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
So my question is where exactly can we find you?
I'm going to put it in the shownotes anyway, but I know a lot
of you particularly won't go tothe show notes, so can you say
it out loud, so you can jumpright on your phone right now
and go and follow Jane, please?

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Look.
If you would like to know whatthe day in the life of an ADHD
mum is, you can click on mystories.
Apparently, they're veryrelatable and hilarious.
I don't hold back.
It's complete chaos.
You can go on Instagram storiesif you like.
Otherwise, the Facebook groupis awesome.
There's a couple of meetups onthe Sunshine Coast that people
do.
The podcast is on all streamingplatforms and, of course, go to
the resources.
If you're more of a visuallearner and seek help, yeah and

(01:12:45):
jump on, and I just if we canget the door to sorted, I'd be
really happy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, oh gosh, thank you for your generosity, because
I know how much time A apodcast takes, yet alone
gathering those resources andkeeping them up to date.
But, my gosh, is that going tonot just be like singular life
changing.
This is going to begenerational life changing and
even just it's not even just theSunshine Coast, even though
we've got those groups here,which is amazing, the podcast

(01:13:13):
that reach that you're going tohave and, like you said, the
daughters, that is going tochange and we need these
matriarchs to be in a placewhere they feel held and seen
and safe and sane.
You know, like for you, as a 14year old, to be seen and heard
and held.
What a healing, what a child,inner child healing you're doing

(01:13:36):
for yourself and for yourdaughter and generations in your
family too.
Like well done, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
Oh, thank you and thanks for having me, nikki.
I appreciate it.
I think we've got such synergyin our worlds that we live in
and I think, yeah, thecombination of diagnosis and
medication and homeschooling, Ithink, is a real cracker.
So, yeah, well done to you aswell, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
I'm going to hop off now and I'm going to actually go
through the forms that Idownloaded last time we spoke.
Maybe I need to hold myselfaccountable and book in another
episode so that I can then gothe next step.

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
Let's follow the journey.
I think it would be greatactually following Nicky's
journey, because you know whatyou'll probably get turned away
from the GP or you'll get turnedaway from a psychiatrist.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
It's never easy, yeah , and I would love to follow
yours as well.
Homeschooling and seeing what'shappened?

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
Yes, actually that's a good idea.
The um.
The other thing is the um.
Psychiatrists often will saythat if you don't have symptoms
in childhood, they won'tdiagnose you.
So it'll be interesting to seehow you go if you do get in
front of a psychiatrist.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
I mean, your story was a hundred percent mine, mind
you, I was fine during highschool, but it was because of
the tiny, tiny school I stayedin.
I can guarantee, guarantee.
If I had gone to an eliteprivate school, which was where
I was heading, it would havebeen very different, very, very
different, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Yeah, yeah, probably.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
So lucky Sliding doors moments.
Hey, Thanks to the drought,couldn't go to boarding school.
Thanks Mother Nature.
Thank you so much.
I hope this is.
I know this will have resonatedwith a lot because we like
attracts like and I am sograteful for our time.
Please make sure you followJane and, even if it's not for

(01:15:27):
yourself, if you know someonethat you think it might resonate
with, if you've identifiedanything there that looks like
someone you know, please justpass on the podcast or pass on
the website, because you justdon't know how much you might be
helping someone.
Thank you again, Jane, andhopefully we can talk soon.
Thank you so much, Nikki.
That was quite a ride for mepersonally that chat with Jane,

(01:15:51):
and actually we chatted foranother half hour off air as
I've come to some reallypersonal realizations, as I'm
sure you heard the penny fallingmany, many times throughout the
episode as I was giggling alongmaking those connections.
My hope is that this episodemay be very validating for some

(01:16:12):
of you, fellow mums and parentsas well, and maybe it will be
the kick up the bum, like it'sgoing to be, for me to go and
seek a diagnosis and just seewhat comes of it.
If it's nothing great.
I just need to go find somemore executive function tools
for my life, and if it is, thenyou know there's the beginning
of a journey for me to exploreand hopefully make my life a

(01:16:33):
little bit easier.
Our hope, too, is that it willhopefully make some teenage
girls and boys around thecountry and around the world a
little bit easier too.
Jane's website is an incredible,incredible resource, as is she,
and she is so generous with hertime.
Her podcast is an incrediblewealth of information as well,
so if you have felt validated atall in any way in this episode,

(01:16:58):
then I strongly suggest you goand check out ADHDmumscomau and
she's on Instagram at ADHDunderscore mums.
There's a Facebook supportgroup.
There's all sorts ofdownloadables and
self-assessment tools.
It's a really, really greatone-stop shop.
To start Until next week.
Stay wild and stay safe.

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