April 8, 2024 • 44 mins
Join Ken Arthun, owner of Arthun Resources, as he takes you on a journey through the world of land ownership in Montana. With knowledge passed down through four generations of his family ranch, Ken brings extensive experience in water, range, wildlife, and soil management. Along the way, Ken not only uncovers the complexities inherent in land management but also kindles a fresh determination to aid fellow landowners in navigating their unique challenges.
Whether you're a new landowner or a seasoned rancher, listen as this episode aims to inform and inspire.
#RanchInvestor #RanchLand #MontanaRanch #LandManagement #SustainableLandManagement #LivestockDevelopment #RanchWater #SoilManagement
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ken Arthun (00:00):
I don't know why in Montana we keep not looking at
our greatest asset.
Colter DeVries (00:08):
I'm Colter DeVries, accredited land
consultant with the Realtor LandInstitute and accredited farm
manager with American Society ofFarm Managers and Rural
Appraisers.
Thanks for tuning in to theRanch Investor Podcast.
Ken Arthun (00:21):
Ranch Investor Podcast is the most downloaded
and informativeindustry-specific content that
intrigues while entertains.
Colter DeVries (00:30):
Ken, you didn't need to bring a notepad.
Ken Arthun (00:34):
I know, but I was scared, I was going to forget
something.
Colter DeVries (00:36):
So I thought I better.
Well, you're not in the hotseat, so no worries.
Here I brought you on to hearwhat you're up to oh okay.
We were shooting the shit alittle bit before the recording
button got hit and we'recatching up on all the old times
of Class C basketball inMontana.
Ken Arthun (00:55):
Absolutely.
Colter DeVries (00:55):
You were telling me about the family's
800, 1200 head operation in theShields Valley.
Yeah, well, that's prettycoveted.
Yeah, everyone wants to be inthe Shields Valley.
Ken Arthun (02:16):
Yeah, It's a grassroots organization.
Of course, you know, we're thegrandson and great-grandson of
homesteaders who came fromNorway at the turn of the
century, and we never hadanything to start with.
Colter DeVries (03:18):
So and we're for context, we're talking about
Charles Bear, who is one ofthose Montana cattle barons.
He actually sheep.
He had about a million sheep,that's what they said yeah, a
million sheep, and they wouldrun them from, as you mentioned,
the Crow Reservation.
This had to have been in thelate 1800s.
Ken Arthun (03:39):
Yeah, early 1900s.
Colter DeVries (03:41):
Early 1900s they would run them from the
Crow all the way up to MeagherCounty.
And for all the Texans wantingto buy an elk hunting ranch in
Montana it's Meagher County notMeagher, Irish.
But Charles Bear still has theBear Ranches in the foundation.
The Bear family made millionsand they contribute to the
(04:03):
universities and differentscholarships.
Very charitable trust at thispoint.
But one of the original JohnDuttons of Montana is who Ken
Arthun is talking about and KenArthun is one of those names you
talked about, the homesteaderlegacy, probably a lot of
Norwegian boys, a lot ofbachelors to marry off and go
(04:26):
start another homestead.
So Arthun is one of those namesthat in Montana where fifth
generation Montana like me canhear that you're an Arthun and
I'll say, oh, you're eitherJoliet, Abzorkey or the Shields
Valley, kind of like theSimonton's.
You know they're Simonson, Iknow immediately they're from
northeast Montana or a Schwinn.
(04:47):
I know that they're from Jolietor Bridger.
There are just some of thosefamily names and you're one of
them.
Ken Arthun (04:52):
Yeah, yeah, we've been there a long time.
I can hardly go anywhere inMontana if I mention my name and
people always know You'rearound someplace like that long
enough.
People just I don't knowthey've just.
It's just your name precedesyou sort of you know, and it's a
weird.
It's strange, but that's theway it works in Montana.
Colter DeVries (05:14):
Well, and that's, that's one of the, the
dying legacy, the dying culturesthat unfortunately we have to
accept, that unfortunately wehave to accept we bring up here
on the podcast quite a bit.
Is you Class C basketball,Shields Valley?
Most of your teammates werefarmers and ranchers, right.
And then you guys would go playlittle towns like Fromberg and
(05:38):
Roberts and you played againstsome of my uncles and cousins
and I don't have any actuallyuncles you would have played
against, but you would haveplayed against some DeVries
cousins.
And we have that commonalityacross Montana, from all the way
from Ecolac in the southeast,900 miles northwest, to Eureka
and every point in between, andthat's dying.
That's what do you see there inMeagher County and Wheatland
(06:03):
County.
In County and Wheatland County, those are because of the
mountains there.
Those are two highly desirableareas, depending on what side of
the mountain someone wants tobe on.
Ken Arthun (06:11):
in Sweetgrass County , yeah, absolutely, it is
totally changing, though I thinkthere's very few, you know
total farm and ranch families inthe Shields Valley, now Just
the homesteaders.
Yeah, just just just.
Colter DeVries (06:26):
Probably the third plus generation.
Ken Arthun (06:28):
Yeah, just a handful , and a lot of those places you
know have been split out andmore are going to be, you know.
So it gets less and less everyday.
But as you were speaking there,it was so cool.
We went against one family from, particularly from White
Sulphur that my dad played hisdad, I played him and my sons
(06:49):
played his sons.
Colter DeVries (06:50):
Oh, yes, white Sulphur's just down the road.
Ken Arthun (06:53):
Yeah, it was just quite a rivalry and they were
all good friends.
It's just what happens inMontana.
Colter DeVries (07:00):
You have those rivalries small town, either
inner district, when they'rejust 20, 40 miles down the road,
or else when you get todivisionals and they're three
hours down the road, and thenwhen you get to state and
they're seven hours down theroad.
But Montana is just one longmain street, right.
Ken Arthun (07:19):
It sure seems that way.
It's just incredible theconnections.
It just overwhelms me almostevery day.
Colter DeVries (07:25):
So, like me, you've identified that, hey, I
can't fight this.
This market is changing.
My neighbors are billionairesand cashflow isn't necessarily
their primary reason for buyinga ranch, as it was for the
families that you grew up withhad the cash flow that was their
(07:46):
existence.
So you've identified a need forsome local management.
Is that correct?
Ken Arthun (07:53):
yeah, I just uh.
We had the opportunity to uh,to uh, to sell some of our
bottom ground to my, so I soldit to the, my brothers, brothers
and my cousin, and then weended up buying a, a place in
Plentywood and my son is upthere right now on that and and
uh.
So we've changed that way anduh, and it gave me an
(08:15):
opportunity to, to kind of openup my scope a little bit and and
uh.
That's why I've started a landmanagement consulting deal and
it's trying, it's it's to, it'snot, it's to help the, the new
landowners, kind of to identifytheir place.
(08:35):
Because you know, having alifetime in the in the ag
background that you know you cansee things.
Then you grew up knowing thingsand and the people that are
coming in don't necessarily knowthis.
You know they don't know aboutnoxious weeds or or erosion, or
soil health or or waterdevelopment for and so that's
(08:56):
why I started the business it'scalled Arthun Resources and it's
to help those people and sothat they might have a better
buying experience and that theirneighbors might have a better
experience too from that.
Colter DeVries (09:10):
So so because you've seen a few newcomers come
in and probably uh, maybe nofault of their own not
understand the water rights orthe fencing issues.
Yeah, totally.
And then that could start offon the wrong foot and then it's
not too fun for the next manyyears between neighbors.
Ken Arthun (09:31):
Yeah, you know I, the saddest thing is that you
know us Montanans.
If we have a disagreement, it'sit's it's better to stand toe to
toe, and and, and you canalways work something out.
It's just amazing what you cando when you stand toe to toe and
communicate, but it seems, andyou can always work something
out.
It's just amazing what you cando when you stand toe to toe and
communicate, but it seems thefirst order of business anymore
is is you run everything througha lawyer and God, if you really
(09:53):
want to screw things up, that'sa great way to do it.
So, and and it seemed like itcan you can spend millions and
accomplish absolutely nothing.
We're a, a handshake andhake,and maybe a few thousand dollars
would have been all that wouldhave had to change hands.
You know, I've seen easementsgo awry and water rights go awry
and about everything imaginablein those terms, and it's just,
(10:19):
it's really out of just kind oflack of shared knowledge, and so
that's the reason to gettogether, and a lot of the
people don't realize that comingin, but it would be great if
they did.
Colter DeVries (10:31):
Lack of shared knowledge and granted.
Sometimes these agreements foraccess and water usage and
fencing, trailing livestockacross someone's place, a lot of
times those are verbal andgenerational.
They're not recorded, they'renot written, they're not signed,
there's been no compensationmade.
It's usually just friendlyhandshake agreements on the old
(10:57):
dial-up telephones and when thenew person comes in that's going
to be very problematic, isn'tit?
Ken Arthun (11:04):
It is, and it has been already.
You know to uh to a huge degreeand uh, uh, it's just that, um,
you know it.
It just didn't used to worklike that in Montana, but but
now it does, you know, and so itwould encourage people that you
know if they, if they are doingsomething like that, you know
crossing somebody's propertywould sure be nice to get that
(11:25):
in writing.
You know, and as things arechanging very quickly, and I can
relate.
Colter DeVries (11:34):
We've had a neighboring 200 irrigated acres
sell a couple times in the last10 years, probably three times,
maybe even more.
But since we're located in yourred lodge there's, you know
it's highly desirable.
There's going to be someturnover if people aren't
committed for the long term andour place obviously is, and one
other neighbor is generationallong term and we've had this
(11:57):
water usage unwritten,unrecorded agreement between the
three ditch owners.
That so our 120 inches.
You know we use minor inches inMontana and a lot of places in
Montana, so we have 120, theneighbor has 200, the other
neighbor has about 100.
(12:18):
So one neighbor is fairlydominant, right, they have more
and that's the place that'sturned over a couple times.
And the way we irrigate up thereis that you take the full ditch
for three days, then you passit and they get the full ditch
for three days and it's not thelegal way.
I mean you should be able.
(12:40):
You have a right to access your200 inches anytime you want and
that is your 200 inches.
But the way that those fieldsirrigate in that growing season,
in the crop being used grassyou want to flood it and the
soils, there's a reason that youwant to put all 600 inches down
(13:01):
at once, 600 inches down atonce, and so that's.
That's always been the the uhagreement between the unwritten,
unrecorded agreement.
And every time a new person buysthat place next to us, we have
to educate them.
Hey, we understand that youhave the right to access your
200 inches anytime you want, andwe should get a box and we
should separate that.
(13:22):
Here's the reason why we don'tdo that.
And they, they have heartburnover it at first.
The most, most newcomers havedon't like farmer agreements.
They don't.
They.
You know one thing can theymight think that us good old boy
neighbors are trying to screwthem.
We're trying to pull, pull thebowl over their eyes and pull
(13:43):
one on them.
They, they might think we'retrying to screw them, but they
soon do realize there's a reason, a method behind the madness,
and it's mainly driven by thesoil and the crop.
But it just takes, you know,continuing communication.
Ken Arthun (13:59):
Yeah, in a situation like that, a lot of times
water's lost in conveyance too.
So if you don't have the wholething, you can get absolutely
nothing done, and so, like yousaid, it's a compromise move.
But it's hard to spring that onsomebody that's not familiar
with that system of neighboring,I guess.
Colter DeVries (14:18):
Yeah, and another one is every time that
changes hand, the last owner isbehind on their ditch
maintenance.
And, granted, someone juststepped in and they bought a 1.5
million dollar place and youtell them oh, by the way, you
owe 800 bucks for his ditchmaintenance.
Oh they, they get their pantiesin a bunch.
They're just so upset about 800bucks on 1.5 million.
(14:40):
I shouldn't have to pay.
That that was his, it's like.
Well, we're never going to getit from him if.
If you want your water, it's800 bucks.
Ken Arthun (14:49):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, there's a lot, lot inwater conveyance.
My uncle was a pro at makingsure the water got to the point
of attack, and so I learned alot from my uncle about as far
as clean ditches and how to getthe water from the pond or the
stream bed to the to the field.
Colter DeVries (15:08):
It makes a huge difference well comment on that
, because there's another.
There's another culturalparadigm where you and I look at
ranches and we see water forirrigation and livestock use.
The new buyers in Meagher,you're saying do I have enough
water?
Here is the point of diversion,such that I can put up ponds.
(15:32):
And I want to build ponds and Iwant to change the channel, I
want to change the point ofdiversion.
And then, going back to ourlittle dispute on the East Bench
near Red Lodge, I want my waterall year long.
And how do you feel about?
I mean, I guess you and I justwe just have to accept it and
say, hey, this is the world welive in and you know we got to
(15:53):
make a living too.
So if they want water for pondsor amenity ponds, how have you
been handling that?
Ken Arthun (16:00):
Well, you know, we've been around.
It's kind of amazing youbrought that up because we've
we've been kind of sufferingfrom pond overdose, overdose,
but but uh, yeah, and they're,they're, uh, I, uh, I do know
that that the that the dnrc isallowing now water for ponds and
(16:20):
they are recognizing that.
So really, there is, thereisn't a lot a guy can do uh with
that, but I do know that uh,that uh, uh, in the future it's
going to come up more and moreoften and I'm close enough to
the Bozeman area that I knowit's just been a horror story
over there.
Colter DeVries (16:41):
The neighboring state of Bozeman?
Ken Arthun (16:42):
Yeah, the neighboring state of Bozeman
with ponds, because it seemedlike everybody builds a pond,
whether sometimes they were ableto just, you know, dig in the
ground and you're kind ofexposing the water, you know
what I mean.
The groundwater then, which Iseemed like to me when you do
that, and a lot of those ponds,like toward Gateway, they're fed
(17:05):
by irrigation ditches that leak, so they kind of dry up in the
summer or dry up in thewintertime, and then here they
come in the summertime and Iknow my brother and sister have
a place over there and one ofthe neighbors there decided to
build their on a ditch that wasconveying through him.
They just built their pondright on this ditch.
(17:28):
So the sad news is that thereis no enforcement division of
the dnrc, so so then you have tofight that in court so you may
not have your like.
In his case he lost his waterfor the year because he had to
fight that and to get that, youknow, his ditch conveyed around
(17:48):
the pond and onto his property.
So it's a kind of continualnightmare.
That is a Montana.
It's going to get a lot worseactually in the Western part of
Montana and that's why, likewith my business.
I would hope to address thatand tell people what what they
can do and what they can't do.
You know and I think thatthere's a lot of misinformation
(18:11):
it seemed like I don't know whenthey buy this piece, nobody's
taught it, told them anything.
Well, a lot of times they'vecame from area where they even
know nothing about water ornothing about water rights, and
so they just put in a pond andand then then there's just great
disappointment afterwards thatthey can't fill their pond and
they've spent a bunch of moneyfor nothing.
And that's one of the reasons Istarted my company to try to
(18:34):
help those people, so they don'tdo that.
Colter DeVries (18:36):
A little bit of consulting goes a long way, I
think so.
Just a little bit of localknowledge and advice can keep
you out of an attorney pickle.
And then another thing beforeit gets to the attorneys, why
not practice mediation?
Let's get another third party,independent, third objective
opinion in here and let's find away to work this out without
(18:58):
having to take it to thedistrict court.
Ken Arthun (19:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I don't.
It's just sad that you know,like I say, the DNRC has.
We've entered into severalwater right arrangements, but
they don't have any teeth.
Water right arrangements andbut they don't have any teeth.
I mean there's, they don't,they don't have an enforcement
division, so he can come to thebest damn agreement in the world
but you can't enforce it.
Colter DeVries (19:18):
So we don't want them to have no I know I
would rather they were uh,castrated to the highest level.
Ken Arthun (19:28):
Yeah, yeah but I'm just saying it's hard to manage.
You know you make an agreementand yet there's nobody to
oversee the agreement.
Colter DeVries (19:39):
Well, it starts with the water, commissioner.
Ken Arthun (19:40):
Yeah.
Colter DeVries (19:41):
And well, it starts with the private parties
property rights agreementbetween parties, and then the
commissioner can weigh in.
Commissioner can weigh in andthen, if, if he can't figure out
the resolution and educate bothparties to why it is what it is
and how it's going to be whatit's going to be, then it should
go to district court, right,and, and you should have your
(20:02):
local representatives uh,locally elected judge, weigh in
on it, right.
And if it takes a locally uhassigned jury pool, they're
going to find people like youwho are of that local area to
weigh in on this property rights, this landowner dispute.
And the last thing we need isMontana becomes more absentee
(20:27):
owned, more tourist occupied.
I would consider someone who'sa seven-year hold visits for
four weeks of the year at best.
I mean, that's, that's a form oftourism, right absolutely
you're not vested, you're notcommitted to the long term, but
we want to keep that out of thewater court and out of the
(20:50):
state's hands, because the state, inevitably, they want control,
they want your water rights,they wanna tell you how it's
gonna happen.
Ken Arthun (20:58):
It's been in the news the last few, last several
weeks, there have been adevelopment, and they're
stopping the development overthere because of lack of water.
And that's going to court.
Colter DeVries (21:32):
Uh, you know, I think it's on bill's place
there, so bill galt is one ofthe largest landowners in
montana and him and my dad aretaking up this issue.
I don't know if you'veWell, enough about my chatter,
(22:27):
tell me, tell me how this changehas been.
Has it been?
I mean, it's been slow, right,it's been happening for 30 years
.
Ted Turner, I think he, boughthis first Montana ranch in the
late 80s, which is when I wasborn.
So I can say, like you know, Idon't know the era that you grew
up in yeah, I've always beenpart of this absentee ownership.
(22:52):
You could say.
Ken Arthun (22:55):
Right, exactly in.
Yeah, I've always been part ofthis absentee ownership.
You could say, right exactly I.
I grew up when it was.
It was like like when we boughtthat place in plenty, what I
keep telling everybody it's thegreatest place in the world.
It's like going back and we'llsell 30 years ago because all
the old farmers and ranchers areon the farms and ranch and then
in will sell.
It's totally not the caseanymore.
It's uh, very few of the familyranchers are that are left
(23:18):
there and you, you learn, youlose a lot of community with.
I mean those, it seemed likethose lifetime guys are so
vested in the community thatthey are just I mean you can't
even describe it.
You, there's just this.
It's beyond reproach, you justcan't do it.
It there's just it's beyondreproach, you just can't do it.
I mean it's just like thosePlentywood people.
You know If there's a funeralthey're all there.
(23:39):
You know what I mean it's likeand that's the way it used to be
in Willisville.
I'm not saying that it's notthat way still in Willisville,
because people have reallyworked hard to keep it that way,
but it's the people that havebeen around a while.
I'm not saying some of thenewer people haven't tried
really hard because they have,but but I'm just saying it, it's
a sense of community that youkind of lose through all this.
(24:02):
You know I go into the if I goto the bank bar after 10 o'clock
I won't know a soul in there.
You know it's crazy.
You know I used to knoweverybody in there in the bank
bar or you know it's crazy.
Colter DeVries (24:12):
You know I used to know everybody in there in
the bank bar or White SulphurSprings on opening day of rifle
season.
Ken Arthun (24:17):
Yeah, exactly Insane , but it has really changed a
lot.
I mean, it started kind of whenI was more in high school and
that's kind of when you'd see itin the 70s, and since then it's
kind of slowly, you know, asthe ranch would go out, you know
.
Know it was just enough thatwas kind of out of egg range for
(24:38):
trying to purchase it.
You know, and uh, I think thelast big land deal we did was
was in the oh we, I guess webought land all the way up to to
current.
But the last huge deals we didwere in the 70s and right before
right late 70s, and then theinterest rates went to hell and
we got, we got, I think in 1971we got 96 cents for the steer
(25:00):
calves and and 19 the next year.
We got 27 cents for the steersand we couldn't sell the heifers
.
So, oh, my goodness oh man thatwas.
We went in and then then theinterest rate started up into
the 20 percent.
So so we got welcome to theworld of debt right in a hurry,
you know.
Colter DeVries (25:19):
Yeah, so I'm not.
I'm not the only one who hasthat story of buying high and
selling low.
Ken Arthun (25:25):
Yeah, it's been going on the egg world forever.
So yeah, and we keep doing it.
We're consistent.
We'll do it again tomorrow.
Colter DeVries (25:32):
Yeah, that's right, but you weather the times
and you weather thedifficulties because your life
depends on it.
I mean, there is no outsideincome, there is no additional
family wealth backing you, andyou just got to cut costs and
live thin like a coyotejackrabbit.
Ken Arthun (25:48):
Yeah, and people, all of our suppliers, all wonder
why we're so.
We're tight, so tight with ourmoney.
Colter DeVries (25:54):
Well, that's the only way we can cut costs
absolutely try to make the bestdeals you know so yeah, I, I can
recall my grandpa callingprobably five or six different
tire shops between pal wyomingand belgrade montana, oh,
absolutely Looking to save 50bucks on a tractor tire.
Ken Arthun (26:12):
Yeah, no, that's right, that's what we do.
That's what we do, you know,and people think we're, like I
said, thrifty, tight, whatever,but I mean, it's the only way
you can save money.
Colter DeVries (26:28):
So what's your business called?
It's Arthun Resources.
Arthun Resources, yeah, and youwere part of the Ringling Five.
Yeah, barely, that sounds likeorganized crime syndication.
Ken Arthun (26:35):
It pretty much was yeah.
Colter DeVries (26:39):
That sounds like something that would be on
a Netflix documentary.
Ken Arthun (26:42):
Yeah, it should have been.
Yeah, it was 40-some years ofcraziness.
No, it was a wonderful deal.
Colter DeVries (26:49):
What is the Ringling Five?
Ken Arthun (26:51):
Well, I don't know it started out.
You know well, for starters itwas my cousin Les, my brother
Ron and myself.
So there's three Arthuns in thegroup and Larry Lovely, which I
started Sunday school with whenI was five.
And so people asked us well,how long have you guys been
singing together?
I said, well, golly, ever sinceI was in Sunday school when I
(27:13):
was five.
You know, because that's all wedid in Sunday school.
We didn't have a lesson, wejust sang, so it was a great
kind of like a homeschool band.
Yeah, pretty much.
And so then we had a couple oftremendous music teachers Mrs
Blinn in high school and MrArthun.
Oh yeah, and uh and uh, and thenwe really didn't do anything
(27:36):
with it.
Larry Lovely always had a band,and then then, I don't know, we
came home from college, we'reall MSU, uh, go cats guys, and
uh and uh.
We came home from school and,um, I don't know, uh, a honky
tonk piano player.
We'd have some special eventsaround and she'd want us to
write a song for that or sing asong.
(27:56):
So we started singing somesongs and then we started
writing some songs and then thenthat led to a whole lot of
craziness, you know.
So I mean thousands Well, Idon't know how many hundreds of
thousands of miles 2000 shows.
Colter DeVries (28:11):
Every mint bar and Stockman bar in Montana.
Pretty much there are manymints and stockmans yeah.
Ken Arthun (28:17):
If you sang in , you've sang about everywhere in
Montana, and we did so.
Colter DeVries (28:28):
Tell me more about your services, which I
assume does not includeperforming as the Ringling Five
on the ranch.
Ken Arthun (28:38):
Yeah, no, as far as my business services, we start
out with range management.
So we do a speciesidentification, species analysis
, and we do some range plots,gps plots, and away from the
waterways, people, you know theyalways, you know it's.
(28:59):
You know waterways or livestockdevelopments for water, you
know they're gonna.
You know animals are lazy andthey're always gonna pound that
grass and so you want to getyour plots up away from that.
So that's what we do.
And then we we actually clip andweigh those plots and then we
photograph them and and then you, we have a precip factor we add
(29:24):
into that and then then you canactually measure the range and
and take pictures.
And then it's for, it's forpeople that don't know and
understand and and uh, you knowyou're not going to explain it
much to you know an old, old,old time ranch guy, but for some
of these newer people coming init it gives them some actually
(29:44):
proof that what we're looking atand we do a species, species
analysis of the wildlife and uh,and they can you know, you can
you know I've seen them a lot ofuh, food plots potting put in
and and I haven't.
And uh, one of the newerlandowners the shields just put
in several hundred acres and andwanted to, you know, entice the
(30:06):
elk in for hunting season.
But the elk had it eaten upmid-summer.
Colter DeVries (30:11):
So so you know there's a lot to be learned for
that maybe think about some warmseason plants that last longer
through the fall, right.
Ken Arthun (30:20):
Or they'd actually in that situation you'd have to
fence them off, you know.
And then we've done a ton ofwater development on our place
pipelines, spring development Ithink I've developed at least 30
springs myself with a backhoeand one helper and and so we
have a have had a ton ofexperience do that, and and I
(30:43):
was part of the shieldswatershed group and we've done
some, some restoration work onthe shields and been able to see
how that's worked out forpeople and and generally, if
it's good for the ruminant, it'sgood for the ungulate yeah,
that's right, that's rightspring and pipeline and cross
fencing and riparian habitat.
Colter DeVries (31:02):
You're going to do that.
I mean today's owner is goingto do that for the wildlife
right and for the amenity value,but it does improve the
livestock operation, which thenimproves the soil, the grasses,
the species, which then improvesthe wildlife oh, tremendously.
Ken Arthun (31:18):
It's just you can't be enough, said.
Like I was telling you earlier,you know they, they have a
tendency the livestock and gamewill have a tendency to, you
know, stay on the water when itgets hot in the summertime, and
the the more water developments,the more you can scatter the
animals and and it's a win-windeal for everything and
everybody, every species outthere.
Colter DeVries (31:39):
So so that's fantastic, so yeah yeah, that
that makes me also think aboutthese, the new buyer set, which
try not to have a value judgmentupon everyone's free right,
exactly free, exactly our owndream.
This is America, yeah we get topursue what we want.
(32:02):
We have private property rightsand it's a beautiful thing to
chase your dream, and a lot ofthese people are chasing their
dreams, so I definitely don'twant to come across like I'm
shaming anyone, but they do lack.
They lack insight into basicresource management and in
(32:25):
particular, I'm thinking aboutweeds.
Oh boy, weeds is a big one.
I come across when showing aplace and they're looking at the
view, they're looking at the,the ponderosa pines, they're
looking for elk.
They're not looking down at thefeet, seeing, oh, this is
napweed, or this is ventanada,or spurge, leafy spurge, and
(32:47):
then, in the event that it, well, I've been on showings where
they, you know, call, call leafyspurge and spotted knapweed a
pretty flower, right, purplepretty flower and purple or
yellow pretty flower plants andit's like, no, those are noxious
weeds.
And oh, okay, it's actually.
(33:09):
You should be like do you wantto think of a plan how to
control that, how to knock itout, cause that's kind of your
obligation, or you know?
Going back to community, Right,exactly you take care of your
side of the fence, make sureyour side of the street is clean
.
Your neighbor's going to do thesame.
Yeah, exactly, Especially ifyou're committed for the
longterm you're vested.
Ken Arthun (33:28):
Yep, you can't, you can't say enough about that.
I mean, as far as you, just youcan't be a pain in all your
neighbor's rear end because youknow you think it's a flower,
not a weed, because it's, youknow it's going to not only take
over the neighbor but it mightyou know, might take over the
public ground next to theneighbor, government ground.
Colter DeVries (33:49):
Yes, I don't do we don't use the word public
ground on this podcast thepublic does not have rights to
shit on government.
The government owns it, thepublic does not yeah, they keep
taking away.
Ken Arthun (34:03):
You know what they say is, and then they'll.
Colter DeVries (34:05):
They'll say there's public access, but then
they'll take it away in fiveyears well, if you think you own
it, mr public Landowners outthere with your nifty little
shirts and bumper stickers, justgo set up a house and actually
set up a tent and try to bethere for four weeks, be left
alone and, furthermore, harborsomething in that tent and see
(34:29):
if the government needs awarrant to enter your tent on
these quote-unquote public lands.
Ken Arthun (34:34):
Iress, ken, we're talking about your business no,
no, totally, yeah, no problem,no problem.
No, it's very true, it's verytrue.
So, all the above, so we weretalking about responsible
resource management.
Colter DeVries (34:49):
What goes into that?
Ken Arthun (34:51):
well, it's like you said.
It's noxious weed control, it'sit's water development, uh,
soil health, uh, you hear a lotabout uh, rejuvenation and soil
health and and you know you cando a ton for that.
Uh, one time I uh I get so sickof when it rains three or four
(35:13):
tents or five tents in ourlittle valley.
The rivers and the streamsinstantly turn brown.
They instantly turn brown.
So one day I said, my God, I'mso sick of this and I thought
I'm just going to get.
I got on my four-wheeler.
I said I'm just going to followand see where this starts.
And I started at my place and Iwent up into the hills behind
(35:34):
my house and where it actuallywas coming from was an old
growth fir on north slopes,because there's absolutely
nothing growing under those oldgrowth fir trees.
It's absolutely, totally bareground.
So it's old growth fir and itrains just a doodle.
If it runs at all, then it'sgoing to run into those streams.
(36:00):
So we I don't know why inMontana we keep not looking at
our greatest asset.
It starts with the soil andpeople do not understand that,
and the and the Forest Service,I don't know they haven't done
anything about it.
So they obviously don't know,or sure?
Um don't seem to know anythingabout that and I think that on
government land I think thatthere's they actually don't log
(36:20):
the waterways and I was thinkingthat would be.
The best thing to do would beto log the waterways and have
grass filter strips so it couldstop some of that soil before it
gets into the stream, ratherthan, you know, letting that old
growth fur grow right into thewaterway.
So I know I could be wrong onthis deal.
I'm not totally familiar withit.
(36:41):
Maybe you know more, Colter.
Colter DeVries (37:00):
It generally comes down to encouraging a good
root layer right, right In thesoil.
And how do you do that?
You use root ruminants, right,and the natural progression of
timberland environments, whichincludes fire Right, includes
thinning Right.
It includes rest rotations andchanging season of use, right.
(37:21):
And, yeah, I mean, you look atthese ponderosa pine and dug fir
areas and unfortunately,cheatgrass is pretty prevalent
and cheatgrass is going to dryout earlier.
So, as you mentioned,three-tenths of a rain,
three-tenths of an inchrainstorm, there's no grass
there holding onto that soil, soit will sediment, uh, sediment
(37:43):
the waterways, unfortunately.
And that's why, uh, the publicdoesn't own shit, because the
public should be out theresolving it.
They should get out there andstart rotating cows and sheep
around a little better andspraying.
But that's the government'sresponsibility.
They own it and their hands arealways tied through
administrations.
Ken Arthun (38:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
It is amazing that you'dactually you can do.
You can do more with grazinganimals than you can do without
them and people don't you know,I guess they're all into
worrying about cow farts rightnow, but it's just amazing
actually.
And you talk about we had someland leased in the south of
Livingston higher mountainproperty, and the landowner was
(38:25):
always worried about fire danger.
And I'm going, my God, we had400 cows up there and I said we
got the best wild 400 cows upthere.
And I said, well, we got thebest, the best wildlands fire
preventers in the world righthere and just start around your
house and kind of hit that alittle harder and work yourself
around.
But it seemed like common senseknowledge.
I know it's just amazing how we,how we sometimes forget what
(38:48):
cattle can actually do for aplace.
You know wildland fireprevention, all the way to just
simply grass management and youknow reseeding the grass.
And you know our philosophy wasalways, you know, unless it was
a complete drought year to youknow, take half, leave half, and
(39:11):
that way you can kind of getyou through the dry years,
unless you get three or fourstacked on each other and and on
the wet years you look like aking, you know.
So you don't have to use thegrass.
Colter DeVries (39:21):
so well, given this is the ranch investor
podcast.
You're one of those familieswho took a beautiful mountain
western Montana ranch and youexpanded to eastern Montana.
Tell me what went into thatwell it was.
Ken Arthun (39:37):
It was a long process.
Colter DeVries (39:38):
We probably it probably took five or six years
and we did a 1031 and so youcapitalized on those incredible
land values in western Montanaand grew your operation in the
east where dollar per acre,dollar per animal unit was more
favorable right, exactly, and we, uh, and we and we sold as my
(40:00):
brother and cousin, so we wereable to keep that in the family,
and so so we just look at it asgrowing the homestead.
Ken Arthun (40:07):
now that's a weird way to look at it, but but I
think of it, think of it as that, and, uh, and if I'd have sold
to some outsider, I wouldn't beable to sleep with myself and I
Now that's a weird way to lookat it, but I think of it as that
and if I'd have sold to someoutsider, I wouldn't have been
able to sleep with myself and Iwould have been talking out of
both sides of my mouth on thispodcast.
But we didn't do that and we'reable to keep it in-house and
very thankful for that.
(40:28):
And they all speak to me athome still, so that's a great
thing too.
You can still go to the Mint andthe stockman right, right, and
somebody will still buy me adrink, and so that's a good
thing.
But but, uh, yeah, we were andwe had some friends up there and
my, my daughter, actuallymarried into the family kind of
up in plentywood too, and so, uh, we looked for a place for
(40:51):
years and actually went door todoor up there.
To be honest with you, my sonand he had a good college friend
, and that's kind of how thatall started, and so we were
patient.
And finally, word of mouth, weheard about this place, the old
Nash Brothers place.
There was actually an old NewHolland dealership there in
(41:12):
Redstone Montana, and so theyown most of the town and and so
it got we, we have most of thetown was about three lots.
Yeah, three lots yeah, and abunch of bunch of broken down
buildings, but then then but webought the farm with that, so it
was a historic place too, andin fact Mrs Nash just died she
(41:34):
was 97 years old just a fewweeks ago and it was important
to them that it's sold to afamily.
You know what I mean.
So my son's up there and tookhis three daughters and wife up
there and they're making plentyof money at home.
Colter DeVries (41:49):
Well, as we wrap this up, I want to hear a
little more about your servicesand how people can get in touch
with you.
Where can they find you?
How do they contact you?
Ken Arthun (41:58):
Yeah, well, I just want to say we have.
You know, I've dealt with a lotof family issues over the years
too, and people I was.
I was on the school board for12 years and the farm credit
board for 12 years, and so Ihave a lot of experience with
people.
And in fact, I think the lastschool board election I ran
(42:20):
unopposed and I think of the 246votes I got 220, some, and I
thought, my God, if you can beon the school board for 12 years
and only piss off 20 people, Ithought I must've done a hell of
a job.
And so I, anyhow, I I I thinkthat that I can provide a lot of
the services that I spoke aboutearlier.
Plus, I have a lot of familyexperience and people experience
(42:45):
and and I've always, you know,like you said, mediation would
be way better than you know.
Getting to the court system, Imean, the court system is there.
I guess, if you, like you said,you know if you have some water
issues you have to address, butit sure is nice to settle
things toe-to-toe sometimes andthat's sometimes, I think,
(43:05):
what's most lost in this land.
Transferring to this the newerMontanans, you know.
So I think I can provide thattoo.
So I have a website.
It's arthunresources.
com.
A-r-t-h-u-n.
Yeah, u-n, yeah, resourcecom.
And I'll give my number too.
(43:26):
It's 406-220-1556.
So that's my phone number.
Colter DeVries (43:32):
Well, I appreciate you coming on the
podcast and giving yourperspective.
We certainly don't see theWilkes brothers on school boards
, do we?
Ken Arthun (43:40):
Yeah, for sure we don't.
And as part of Montana, youprobably won't see again.
Colter DeVries (43:46):
No, no, this is in the rear view, and guys like
you and I are trying to figureout how to add value looking
through the windshield.
Ken Arthun (43:54):
Absolutely, and thank you, coulter, very much
for having me on.
It's been great chatting withyou and, like you say, your name
is so familiar too and it's socool to see that Montana Just
the coolest thing.
Colter DeVries (44:08):
Well, Ken Arthun arthunresources.
com, thanks for coming on theranch investor podcast.
Ken Arthun (44:14):
It's been a pleasure thank you very much again,
coulter click subscribe on yourstreaming platform, so you know
when the latest episode hasdropped.
I don't know why in Montana we keep not looking at
our greatest asset.
Colter DeVries (00:08):
I'm Colter DeVries, accredited land
consultant with the Realtor LandInstitute and accredited farm
manager with American Society ofFarm Managers and Rural
Appraisers.
Thanks for tuning in to theRanch Investor Podcast.
Ken Arthun (00:21):
Ranch Investor Podcast is the most downloaded
and informativeindustry-specific content that
intrigues while entertains.
Colter DeVries (00:30):
Ken, you didn't need to bring a notepad.
Ken Arthun (00:34):
I know, but I was scared, I was going to forget
something.
Colter DeVries (00:36):
So I thought I better.
Well, you're not in the hotseat, so no worries.
Here I brought you on to hearwhat you're up to oh okay.
We were shooting the shit alittle bit before the recording
button got hit and we'recatching up on all the old times
of Class C basketball inMontana.
Ken Arthun (00:55):
Absolutely.
Colter DeVries (00:55):
You were telling me about the family's
800, 1200 head operation in theShields Valley.
Yeah, well, that's prettycoveted.
Yeah, everyone wants to be inthe Shields Valley.
Ken Arthun (02:16):
Yeah, It's a grassroots organization.
Of course, you know, we're thegrandson and great-grandson of
homesteaders who came fromNorway at the turn of the
century, and we never hadanything to start with.
Colter DeVries (03:18):
So and we're for context, we're talking about
Charles Bear, who is one ofthose Montana cattle barons.
He actually sheep.
He had about a million sheep,that's what they said yeah, a
million sheep, and they wouldrun them from, as you mentioned,
the Crow Reservation.
This had to have been in thelate 1800s.
Ken Arthun (03:39):
Yeah, early 1900s.
Colter DeVries (03:41):
Early 1900s they would run them from the
Crow all the way up to MeagherCounty.
And for all the Texans wantingto buy an elk hunting ranch in
Montana it's Meagher County notMeagher, Irish.
But Charles Bear still has theBear Ranches in the foundation.
The Bear family made millionsand they contribute to the
(04:03):
universities and differentscholarships.
Very charitable trust at thispoint.
But one of the original JohnDuttons of Montana is who Ken
Arthun is talking about and KenArthun is one of those names you
talked about, the homesteaderlegacy, probably a lot of
Norwegian boys, a lot ofbachelors to marry off and go
(04:26):
start another homestead.
So Arthun is one of those namesthat in Montana where fifth
generation Montana like me canhear that you're an Arthun and
I'll say, oh, you're eitherJoliet, Abzorkey or the Shields
Valley, kind of like theSimonton's.
You know they're Simonson, Iknow immediately they're from
northeast Montana or a Schwinn.
(04:47):
I know that they're from Jolietor Bridger.
There are just some of thosefamily names and you're one of
them.
Ken Arthun (04:52):
Yeah, yeah, we've been there a long time.
I can hardly go anywhere inMontana if I mention my name and
people always know You'rearound someplace like that long
enough.
People just I don't knowthey've just.
It's just your name precedesyou sort of you know, and it's a
weird.
It's strange, but that's theway it works in Montana.
Colter DeVries (05:14):
Well, and that's, that's one of the, the
dying legacy, the dying culturesthat unfortunately we have to
accept, that unfortunately wehave to accept we bring up here
on the podcast quite a bit.
Is you Class C basketball,Shields Valley?
Most of your teammates werefarmers and ranchers, right.
And then you guys would go playlittle towns like Fromberg and
(05:38):
Roberts and you played againstsome of my uncles and cousins
and I don't have any actuallyuncles you would have played
against, but you would haveplayed against some DeVries
cousins.
And we have that commonalityacross Montana, from all the way
from Ecolac in the southeast,900 miles northwest, to Eureka
and every point in between, andthat's dying.
That's what do you see there inMeagher County and Wheatland
(06:03):
County.
In County and Wheatland County, those are because of the
mountains there.
Those are two highly desirableareas, depending on what side of
the mountain someone wants tobe on.
Ken Arthun (06:11):
in Sweetgrass County , yeah, absolutely, it is
totally changing, though I thinkthere's very few, you know
total farm and ranch families inthe Shields Valley, now Just
the homesteaders.
Yeah, just just just.
Colter DeVries (06:26):
Probably the third plus generation.
Ken Arthun (06:28):
Yeah, just a handful , and a lot of those places you
know have been split out andmore are going to be, you know.
So it gets less and less everyday.
But as you were speaking there,it was so cool.
We went against one family from, particularly from White
Sulphur that my dad played hisdad, I played him and my sons
(06:49):
played his sons.
Colter DeVries (06:50):
Oh, yes, white Sulphur's just down the road.
Ken Arthun (06:53):
Yeah, it was just quite a rivalry and they were
all good friends.
It's just what happens inMontana.
Colter DeVries (07:00):
You have those rivalries small town, either
inner district, when they'rejust 20, 40 miles down the road,
or else when you get todivisionals and they're three
hours down the road, and thenwhen you get to state and
they're seven hours down theroad.
But Montana is just one longmain street, right.
Ken Arthun (07:19):
It sure seems that way.
It's just incredible theconnections.
It just overwhelms me almostevery day.
Colter DeVries (07:25):
So, like me, you've identified that, hey, I
can't fight this.
This market is changing.
My neighbors are billionairesand cashflow isn't necessarily
their primary reason for buyinga ranch, as it was for the
families that you grew up withhad the cash flow that was their
(07:46):
existence.
So you've identified a need forsome local management.
Is that correct?
Ken Arthun (07:53):
yeah, I just uh.
We had the opportunity to uh,to uh, to sell some of our
bottom ground to my, so I soldit to the, my brothers, brothers
and my cousin, and then weended up buying a, a place in
Plentywood and my son is upthere right now on that and and
uh.
So we've changed that way anduh, and it gave me an
(08:15):
opportunity to, to kind of openup my scope a little bit and and
uh.
That's why I've started a landmanagement consulting deal and
it's trying, it's it's to, it'snot, it's to help the, the new
landowners, kind of to identifytheir place.
(08:35):
Because you know, having alifetime in the in the ag
background that you know you cansee things.
Then you grew up knowing thingsand and the people that are
coming in don't necessarily knowthis.
You know they don't know aboutnoxious weeds or or erosion, or
soil health or or waterdevelopment for and so that's
(08:56):
why I started the business it'scalled Arthun Resources and it's
to help those people and sothat they might have a better
buying experience and that theirneighbors might have a better
experience too from that.
Colter DeVries (09:10):
So so because you've seen a few newcomers come
in and probably uh, maybe nofault of their own not
understand the water rights orthe fencing issues.
Yeah, totally.
And then that could start offon the wrong foot and then it's
not too fun for the next manyyears between neighbors.
Ken Arthun (09:31):
Yeah, you know I, the saddest thing is that you
know us Montanans.
If we have a disagreement, it'sit's it's better to stand toe to
toe, and and, and you canalways work something out.
It's just amazing what you cando when you stand toe to toe and
communicate, but it seems, andyou can always work something
out.
It's just amazing what you cando when you stand toe to toe and
communicate, but it seems thefirst order of business anymore
is is you run everything througha lawyer and God, if you really
(09:53):
want to screw things up, that'sa great way to do it.
So, and and it seemed like itcan you can spend millions and
accomplish absolutely nothing.
We're a, a handshake andhake,and maybe a few thousand dollars
would have been all that wouldhave had to change hands.
You know, I've seen easementsgo awry and water rights go awry
and about everything imaginablein those terms, and it's just,
(10:19):
it's really out of just kind oflack of shared knowledge, and so
that's the reason to gettogether, and a lot of the
people don't realize that comingin, but it would be great if
they did.
Colter DeVries (10:31):
Lack of shared knowledge and granted.
Sometimes these agreements foraccess and water usage and
fencing, trailing livestockacross someone's place, a lot of
times those are verbal andgenerational.
They're not recorded, they'renot written, they're not signed,
there's been no compensationmade.
It's usually just friendlyhandshake agreements on the old
(10:57):
dial-up telephones and when thenew person comes in that's going
to be very problematic, isn'tit?
Ken Arthun (11:04):
It is, and it has been already.
You know to uh to a huge degreeand uh, uh, it's just that, um,
you know it.
It just didn't used to worklike that in Montana, but but
now it does, you know, and so itwould encourage people that you
know if they, if they are doingsomething like that, you know
crossing somebody's propertywould sure be nice to get that
(11:25):
in writing.
You know, and as things arechanging very quickly, and I can
relate.
Colter DeVries (11:34):
We've had a neighboring 200 irrigated acres
sell a couple times in the last10 years, probably three times,
maybe even more.
But since we're located in yourred lodge there's, you know
it's highly desirable.
There's going to be someturnover if people aren't
committed for the long term andour place obviously is, and one
other neighbor is generationallong term and we've had this
(11:57):
water usage unwritten,unrecorded agreement between the
three ditch owners.
That so our 120 inches.
You know we use minor inches inMontana and a lot of places in
Montana, so we have 120, theneighbor has 200, the other
neighbor has about 100.
(12:18):
So one neighbor is fairlydominant, right, they have more
and that's the place that'sturned over a couple times.
And the way we irrigate up thereis that you take the full ditch
for three days, then you passit and they get the full ditch
for three days and it's not thelegal way.
I mean you should be able.
(12:40):
You have a right to access your200 inches anytime you want and
that is your 200 inches.
But the way that those fieldsirrigate in that growing season,
in the crop being used grassyou want to flood it and the
soils, there's a reason that youwant to put all 600 inches down
(13:01):
at once, 600 inches down atonce, and so that's.
That's always been the the uhagreement between the unwritten,
unrecorded agreement.
And every time a new person buysthat place next to us, we have
to educate them.
Hey, we understand that youhave the right to access your
200 inches anytime you want, andwe should get a box and we
should separate that.
(13:22):
Here's the reason why we don'tdo that.
And they, they have heartburnover it at first.
The most, most newcomers havedon't like farmer agreements.
They don't.
They.
You know one thing can theymight think that us good old boy
neighbors are trying to screwthem.
We're trying to pull, pull thebowl over their eyes and pull
(13:43):
one on them.
They, they might think we'retrying to screw them, but they
soon do realize there's a reason, a method behind the madness,
and it's mainly driven by thesoil and the crop.
But it just takes, you know,continuing communication.
Ken Arthun (13:59):
Yeah, in a situation like that, a lot of times
water's lost in conveyance too.
So if you don't have the wholething, you can get absolutely
nothing done, and so, like yousaid, it's a compromise move.
But it's hard to spring that onsomebody that's not familiar
with that system of neighboring,I guess.
Colter DeVries (14:18):
Yeah, and another one is every time that
changes hand, the last owner isbehind on their ditch
maintenance.
And, granted, someone juststepped in and they bought a 1.5
million dollar place and youtell them oh, by the way, you
owe 800 bucks for his ditchmaintenance.
Oh they, they get their pantiesin a bunch.
They're just so upset about 800bucks on 1.5 million.
(14:40):
I shouldn't have to pay.
That that was his, it's like.
Well, we're never going to getit from him if.
If you want your water, it's800 bucks.
Ken Arthun (14:49):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, there's a lot, lot inwater conveyance.
My uncle was a pro at makingsure the water got to the point
of attack, and so I learned alot from my uncle about as far
as clean ditches and how to getthe water from the pond or the
stream bed to the to the field.
Colter DeVries (15:08):
It makes a huge difference well comment on that
, because there's another.
There's another culturalparadigm where you and I look at
ranches and we see water forirrigation and livestock use.
The new buyers in Meagher,you're saying do I have enough
water?
Here is the point of diversion,such that I can put up ponds.
(15:32):
And I want to build ponds and Iwant to change the channel, I
want to change the point ofdiversion.
And then, going back to ourlittle dispute on the East Bench
near Red Lodge, I want my waterall year long.
And how do you feel about?
I mean, I guess you and I justwe just have to accept it and
say, hey, this is the world welive in and you know we got to
(15:53):
make a living too.
So if they want water for pondsor amenity ponds, how have you
been handling that?
Ken Arthun (16:00):
Well, you know, we've been around.
It's kind of amazing youbrought that up because we've
we've been kind of sufferingfrom pond overdose, overdose,
but but uh, yeah, and they're,they're, uh, I, uh, I do know
that that the that the dnrc isallowing now water for ponds and
(16:20):
they are recognizing that.
So really, there is, thereisn't a lot a guy can do uh with
that, but I do know that uh,that uh, uh, in the future it's
going to come up more and moreoften and I'm close enough to
the Bozeman area that I knowit's just been a horror story
over there.
Colter DeVries (16:41):
The neighboring state of Bozeman?
Ken Arthun (16:42):
Yeah, the neighboring state of Bozeman
with ponds, because it seemedlike everybody builds a pond,
whether sometimes they were ableto just, you know, dig in the
ground and you're kind ofexposing the water, you know
what I mean.
The groundwater then, which Iseemed like to me when you do
that, and a lot of those ponds,like toward Gateway, they're fed
(17:05):
by irrigation ditches that leak, so they kind of dry up in the
summer or dry up in thewintertime, and then here they
come in the summertime and Iknow my brother and sister have
a place over there and one ofthe neighbors there decided to
build their on a ditch that wasconveying through him.
They just built their pondright on this ditch.
(17:28):
So the sad news is that thereis no enforcement division of
the dnrc, so so then you have tofight that in court so you may
not have your like.
In his case he lost his waterfor the year because he had to
fight that and to get that, youknow, his ditch conveyed around
(17:48):
the pond and onto his property.
So it's a kind of continualnightmare.
That is a Montana.
It's going to get a lot worseactually in the Western part of
Montana and that's why, likewith my business.
I would hope to address thatand tell people what what they
can do and what they can't do.
You know and I think thatthere's a lot of misinformation
(18:11):
it seemed like I don't know whenthey buy this piece, nobody's
taught it, told them anything.
Well, a lot of times they'vecame from area where they even
know nothing about water ornothing about water rights, and
so they just put in a pond andand then then there's just great
disappointment afterwards thatthey can't fill their pond and
they've spent a bunch of moneyfor nothing.
And that's one of the reasons Istarted my company to try to
(18:34):
help those people, so they don'tdo that.
Colter DeVries (18:36):
A little bit of consulting goes a long way, I
think so.
Just a little bit of localknowledge and advice can keep
you out of an attorney pickle.
And then another thing beforeit gets to the attorneys, why
not practice mediation?
Let's get another third party,independent, third objective
opinion in here and let's find away to work this out without
(18:58):
having to take it to thedistrict court.
Ken Arthun (19:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I don't.
It's just sad that you know,like I say, the DNRC has.
We've entered into severalwater right arrangements, but
they don't have any teeth.
Water right arrangements andbut they don't have any teeth.
I mean there's, they don't,they don't have an enforcement
division, so he can come to thebest damn agreement in the world
but you can't enforce it.
Colter DeVries (19:18):
So we don't want them to have no I know I
would rather they were uh,castrated to the highest level.
Ken Arthun (19:28):
Yeah, yeah but I'm just saying it's hard to manage.
You know you make an agreementand yet there's nobody to
oversee the agreement.
Colter DeVries (19:39):
Well, it starts with the water, commissioner.
Ken Arthun (19:40):
Yeah.
Colter DeVries (19:41):
And well, it starts with the private parties
property rights agreementbetween parties, and then the
commissioner can weigh in.
Commissioner can weigh in andthen, if, if he can't figure out
the resolution and educate bothparties to why it is what it is
and how it's going to be whatit's going to be, then it should
go to district court, right,and, and you should have your
(20:02):
local representatives uh,locally elected judge, weigh in
on it, right.
And if it takes a locally uhassigned jury pool, they're
going to find people like youwho are of that local area to
weigh in on this property rights, this landowner dispute.
And the last thing we need isMontana becomes more absentee
(20:27):
owned, more tourist occupied.
I would consider someone who'sa seven-year hold visits for
four weeks of the year at best.
I mean, that's, that's a form oftourism, right absolutely
you're not vested, you're notcommitted to the long term, but
we want to keep that out of thewater court and out of the
(20:50):
state's hands, because the state, inevitably, they want control,
they want your water rights,they wanna tell you how it's
gonna happen.
Ken Arthun (20:58):
It's been in the news the last few, last several
weeks, there have been adevelopment, and they're
stopping the development overthere because of lack of water.
And that's going to court.
Colter DeVries (21:32):
Uh, you know, I think it's on bill's place
there, so bill galt is one ofthe largest landowners in
montana and him and my dad aretaking up this issue.
I don't know if you'veWell, enough about my chatter,
(22:27):
tell me, tell me how this changehas been.
Has it been?
I mean, it's been slow, right,it's been happening for 30 years
.
Ted Turner, I think he, boughthis first Montana ranch in the
late 80s, which is when I wasborn.
So I can say, like you know, Idon't know the era that you grew
up in yeah, I've always beenpart of this absentee ownership.
(22:52):
You could say.
Ken Arthun (22:55):
Right, exactly in.
Yeah, I've always been part ofthis absentee ownership.
You could say, right exactly I.
I grew up when it was.
It was like like when we boughtthat place in plenty, what I
keep telling everybody it's thegreatest place in the world.
It's like going back and we'llsell 30 years ago because all
the old farmers and ranchers areon the farms and ranch and then
in will sell.
It's totally not the caseanymore.
It's uh, very few of the familyranchers are that are left
(23:18):
there and you, you learn, youlose a lot of community with.
I mean those, it seemed likethose lifetime guys are so
vested in the community thatthey are just I mean you can't
even describe it.
You, there's just this.
It's beyond reproach, you justcan't do it.
It there's just it's beyondreproach, you just can't do it.
I mean it's just like thosePlentywood people.
You know If there's a funeralthey're all there.
(23:39):
You know what I mean it's likeand that's the way it used to be
in Willisville.
I'm not saying that it's notthat way still in Willisville,
because people have reallyworked hard to keep it that way,
but it's the people that havebeen around a while.
I'm not saying some of thenewer people haven't tried
really hard because they have,but but I'm just saying it, it's
a sense of community that youkind of lose through all this.
(24:02):
You know I go into the if I goto the bank bar after 10 o'clock
I won't know a soul in there.
You know it's crazy.
You know I used to knoweverybody in there in the bank
bar or you know it's crazy.
Colter DeVries (24:12):
You know I used to know everybody in there in
the bank bar or White SulphurSprings on opening day of rifle
season.
Ken Arthun (24:17):
Yeah, exactly Insane , but it has really changed a
lot.
I mean, it started kind of whenI was more in high school and
that's kind of when you'd see itin the 70s, and since then it's
kind of slowly, you know, asthe ranch would go out, you know
.
Know it was just enough thatwas kind of out of egg range for
(24:38):
trying to purchase it.
You know, and uh, I think thelast big land deal we did was
was in the oh we, I guess webought land all the way up to to
current.
But the last huge deals we didwere in the 70s and right before
right late 70s, and then theinterest rates went to hell and
we got, we got, I think in 1971we got 96 cents for the steer
(25:00):
calves and and 19 the next year.
We got 27 cents for the steersand we couldn't sell the heifers
.
So, oh, my goodness oh man thatwas.
We went in and then then theinterest rate started up into
the 20 percent.
So so we got welcome to theworld of debt right in a hurry,
you know.
Colter DeVries (25:19):
Yeah, so I'm not.
I'm not the only one who hasthat story of buying high and
selling low.
Ken Arthun (25:25):
Yeah, it's been going on the egg world forever.
So yeah, and we keep doing it.
We're consistent.
We'll do it again tomorrow.
Colter DeVries (25:32):
Yeah, that's right, but you weather the times
and you weather thedifficulties because your life
depends on it.
I mean, there is no outsideincome, there is no additional
family wealth backing you, andyou just got to cut costs and
live thin like a coyotejackrabbit.
Ken Arthun (25:48):
Yeah, and people, all of our suppliers, all wonder
why we're so.
We're tight, so tight with ourmoney.
Colter DeVries (25:54):
Well, that's the only way we can cut costs
absolutely try to make the bestdeals you know so yeah, I, I can
recall my grandpa callingprobably five or six different
tire shops between pal wyomingand belgrade montana, oh,
absolutely Looking to save 50bucks on a tractor tire.
Ken Arthun (26:12):
Yeah, no, that's right, that's what we do.
That's what we do, you know,and people think we're, like I
said, thrifty, tight, whatever,but I mean, it's the only way
you can save money.
Colter DeVries (26:28):
So what's your business called?
It's Arthun Resources.
Arthun Resources, yeah, and youwere part of the Ringling Five.
Yeah, barely, that sounds likeorganized crime syndication.
Ken Arthun (26:35):
It pretty much was yeah.
Colter DeVries (26:39):
That sounds like something that would be on
a Netflix documentary.
Ken Arthun (26:42):
Yeah, it should have been.
Yeah, it was 40-some years ofcraziness.
No, it was a wonderful deal.
Colter DeVries (26:49):
What is the Ringling Five?
Ken Arthun (26:51):
Well, I don't know it started out.
You know well, for starters itwas my cousin Les, my brother
Ron and myself.
So there's three Arthuns in thegroup and Larry Lovely, which I
started Sunday school with whenI was five.
And so people asked us well,how long have you guys been
singing together?
I said, well, golly, ever sinceI was in Sunday school when I
(27:13):
was five.
You know, because that's all wedid in Sunday school.
We didn't have a lesson, wejust sang, so it was a great
kind of like a homeschool band.
Yeah, pretty much.
And so then we had a couple oftremendous music teachers Mrs
Blinn in high school and MrArthun.
Oh yeah, and uh and uh, and thenwe really didn't do anything
(27:36):
with it.
Larry Lovely always had a band,and then then, I don't know, we
came home from college, we'reall MSU, uh, go cats guys, and
uh and uh.
We came home from school and,um, I don't know, uh, a honky
tonk piano player.
We'd have some special eventsaround and she'd want us to
write a song for that or sing asong.
(27:56):
So we started singing somesongs and then we started
writing some songs and then thenthat led to a whole lot of
craziness, you know.
So I mean thousands Well, Idon't know how many hundreds of
thousands of miles 2000 shows.
Colter DeVries (28:11):
Every mint bar and Stockman bar in Montana.
Pretty much there are manymints and stockmans yeah.
Ken Arthun (28:17):
If you sang in , you've sang about everywhere in
Montana, and we did so.
Colter DeVries (28:28):
Tell me more about your services, which I
assume does not includeperforming as the Ringling Five
on the ranch.
Ken Arthun (28:38):
Yeah, no, as far as my business services, we start
out with range management.
So we do a speciesidentification, species analysis
, and we do some range plots,gps plots, and away from the
waterways, people, you know theyalways, you know it's.
(28:59):
You know waterways or livestockdevelopments for water, you
know they're gonna.
You know animals are lazy andthey're always gonna pound that
grass and so you want to getyour plots up away from that.
So that's what we do.
And then we we actually clip andweigh those plots and then we
photograph them and and then you, we have a precip factor we add
(29:24):
into that and then then you canactually measure the range and
and take pictures.
And then it's for, it's forpeople that don't know and
understand and and uh, you knowyou're not going to explain it
much to you know an old, old,old time ranch guy, but for some
of these newer people coming init it gives them some actually
(29:44):
proof that what we're looking atand we do a species, species
analysis of the wildlife and uh,and they can you know, you can
you know I've seen them a lot ofuh, food plots potting put in
and and I haven't.
And uh, one of the newerlandowners the shields just put
in several hundred acres and andwanted to, you know, entice the
(30:06):
elk in for hunting season.
But the elk had it eaten upmid-summer.
Colter DeVries (30:11):
So so you know there's a lot to be learned for
that maybe think about some warmseason plants that last longer
through the fall, right.
Ken Arthun (30:20):
Or they'd actually in that situation you'd have to
fence them off, you know.
And then we've done a ton ofwater development on our place
pipelines, spring development Ithink I've developed at least 30
springs myself with a backhoeand one helper and and so we
have a have had a ton ofexperience do that, and and I
(30:43):
was part of the shieldswatershed group and we've done
some, some restoration work onthe shields and been able to see
how that's worked out forpeople and and generally, if
it's good for the ruminant, it'sgood for the ungulate yeah,
that's right, that's rightspring and pipeline and cross
fencing and riparian habitat.
Colter DeVries (31:02):
You're going to do that.
I mean today's owner is goingto do that for the wildlife
right and for the amenity value,but it does improve the
livestock operation, which thenimproves the soil, the grasses,
the species, which then improvesthe wildlife oh, tremendously.
Ken Arthun (31:18):
It's just you can't be enough, said.
Like I was telling you earlier,you know they, they have a
tendency the livestock and gamewill have a tendency to, you
know, stay on the water when itgets hot in the summertime, and
the the more water developments,the more you can scatter the
animals and and it's a win-windeal for everything and
everybody, every species outthere.
Colter DeVries (31:39):
So so that's fantastic, so yeah yeah, that
that makes me also think aboutthese, the new buyer set, which
try not to have a value judgmentupon everyone's free right,
exactly free, exactly our owndream.
This is America, yeah we get topursue what we want.
(32:02):
We have private property rightsand it's a beautiful thing to
chase your dream, and a lot ofthese people are chasing their
dreams, so I definitely don'twant to come across like I'm
shaming anyone, but they do lack.
They lack insight into basicresource management and in
(32:25):
particular, I'm thinking aboutweeds.
Oh boy, weeds is a big one.
I come across when showing aplace and they're looking at the
view, they're looking at the,the ponderosa pines, they're
looking for elk.
They're not looking down at thefeet, seeing, oh, this is
napweed, or this is ventanada,or spurge, leafy spurge, and
(32:47):
then, in the event that it, well, I've been on showings where
they, you know, call, call leafyspurge and spotted knapweed a
pretty flower, right, purplepretty flower and purple or
yellow pretty flower plants andit's like, no, those are noxious
weeds.
And oh, okay, it's actually.
(33:09):
You should be like do you wantto think of a plan how to
control that, how to knock itout, cause that's kind of your
obligation, or you know?
Going back to community, Right,exactly you take care of your
side of the fence, make sureyour side of the street is clean
.
Your neighbor's going to do thesame.
Yeah, exactly, Especially ifyou're committed for the
longterm you're vested.
Ken Arthun (33:28):
Yep, you can't, you can't say enough about that.
I mean, as far as you, just youcan't be a pain in all your
neighbor's rear end because youknow you think it's a flower,
not a weed, because it's, youknow it's going to not only take
over the neighbor but it mightyou know, might take over the
public ground next to theneighbor, government ground.
Colter DeVries (33:49):
Yes, I don't do we don't use the word public
ground on this podcast thepublic does not have rights to
shit on government.
The government owns it, thepublic does not yeah, they keep
taking away.
Ken Arthun (34:03):
You know what they say is, and then they'll.
Colter DeVries (34:05):
They'll say there's public access, but then
they'll take it away in fiveyears well, if you think you own
it, mr public Landowners outthere with your nifty little
shirts and bumper stickers, justgo set up a house and actually
set up a tent and try to bethere for four weeks, be left
alone and, furthermore, harborsomething in that tent and see
(34:29):
if the government needs awarrant to enter your tent on
these quote-unquote public lands.
Ken Arthun (34:34):
Iress, ken, we're talking about your business no,
no, totally, yeah, no problem,no problem.
No, it's very true, it's verytrue.
So, all the above, so we weretalking about responsible
resource management.
Colter DeVries (34:49):
What goes into that?
Ken Arthun (34:51):
well, it's like you said.
It's noxious weed control, it'sit's water development, uh,
soil health, uh, you hear a lotabout uh, rejuvenation and soil
health and and you know you cando a ton for that.
Uh, one time I uh I get so sickof when it rains three or four
(35:13):
tents or five tents in ourlittle valley.
The rivers and the streamsinstantly turn brown.
They instantly turn brown.
So one day I said, my God, I'mso sick of this and I thought
I'm just going to get.
I got on my four-wheeler.
I said I'm just going to followand see where this starts.
And I started at my place and Iwent up into the hills behind
(35:34):
my house and where it actuallywas coming from was an old
growth fir on north slopes,because there's absolutely
nothing growing under those oldgrowth fir trees.
It's absolutely, totally bareground.
So it's old growth fir and itrains just a doodle.
If it runs at all, then it'sgoing to run into those streams.
(36:00):
So we I don't know why inMontana we keep not looking at
our greatest asset.
It starts with the soil andpeople do not understand that,
and the and the Forest Service,I don't know they haven't done
anything about it.
So they obviously don't know,or sure?
Um don't seem to know anythingabout that and I think that on
government land I think thatthere's they actually don't log
(36:20):
the waterways and I was thinkingthat would be.
The best thing to do would beto log the waterways and have
grass filter strips so it couldstop some of that soil before it
gets into the stream, ratherthan, you know, letting that old
growth fur grow right into thewaterway.
So I know I could be wrong onthis deal.
I'm not totally familiar withit.
(36:41):
Maybe you know more, Colter.
Colter DeVries (37:00):
It generally comes down to encouraging a good
root layer right, right In thesoil.
And how do you do that?
You use root ruminants, right,and the natural progression of
timberland environments, whichincludes fire Right, includes
thinning Right.
It includes rest rotations andchanging season of use, right.
(37:21):
And, yeah, I mean, you look atthese ponderosa pine and dug fir
areas and unfortunately,cheatgrass is pretty prevalent
and cheatgrass is going to dryout earlier.
So, as you mentioned,three-tenths of a rain,
three-tenths of an inchrainstorm, there's no grass
there holding onto that soil, soit will sediment, uh, sediment
(37:43):
the waterways, unfortunately.
And that's why, uh, the publicdoesn't own shit, because the
public should be out theresolving it.
They should get out there andstart rotating cows and sheep
around a little better andspraying.
But that's the government'sresponsibility.
They own it and their hands arealways tied through
administrations.
Ken Arthun (38:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
It is amazing that you'dactually you can do.
You can do more with grazinganimals than you can do without
them and people don't you know,I guess they're all into
worrying about cow farts rightnow, but it's just amazing
actually.
And you talk about we had someland leased in the south of
Livingston higher mountainproperty, and the landowner was
(38:25):
always worried about fire danger.
And I'm going, my God, we had400 cows up there and I said we
got the best wild 400 cows upthere.
And I said, well, we got thebest, the best wildlands fire
preventers in the world righthere and just start around your
house and kind of hit that alittle harder and work yourself
around.
But it seemed like common senseknowledge.
I know it's just amazing how we,how we sometimes forget what
(38:48):
cattle can actually do for aplace.
You know wildland fireprevention, all the way to just
simply grass management and youknow reseeding the grass.
And you know our philosophy wasalways, you know, unless it was
a complete drought year to youknow, take half, leave half, and
(39:11):
that way you can kind of getyou through the dry years,
unless you get three or fourstacked on each other and and on
the wet years you look like aking, you know.
So you don't have to use thegrass.
Colter DeVries (39:21):
so well, given this is the ranch investor
podcast.
You're one of those familieswho took a beautiful mountain
western Montana ranch and youexpanded to eastern Montana.
Tell me what went into thatwell it was.
Ken Arthun (39:37):
It was a long process.
Colter DeVries (39:38):
We probably it probably took five or six years
and we did a 1031 and so youcapitalized on those incredible
land values in western Montanaand grew your operation in the
east where dollar per acre,dollar per animal unit was more
favorable right, exactly, and we, uh, and we and we sold as my
(40:00):
brother and cousin, so we wereable to keep that in the family,
and so so we just look at it asgrowing the homestead.
Ken Arthun (40:07):
now that's a weird way to look at it, but but I
think of it, think of it as that, and, uh, and if I'd have sold
to some outsider, I wouldn't beable to sleep with myself and I
Now that's a weird way to lookat it, but I think of it as that
and if I'd have sold to someoutsider, I wouldn't have been
able to sleep with myself and Iwould have been talking out of
both sides of my mouth on thispodcast.
But we didn't do that and we'reable to keep it in-house and
very thankful for that.
(40:28):
And they all speak to me athome still, so that's a great
thing too.
You can still go to the Mint andthe stockman right, right, and
somebody will still buy me adrink, and so that's a good
thing.
But but, uh, yeah, we were andwe had some friends up there and
my, my daughter, actuallymarried into the family kind of
up in plentywood too, and so, uh, we looked for a place for
(40:51):
years and actually went door todoor up there.
To be honest with you, my sonand he had a good college friend
, and that's kind of how thatall started, and so we were
patient.
And finally, word of mouth, weheard about this place, the old
Nash Brothers place.
There was actually an old NewHolland dealership there in
(41:12):
Redstone Montana, and so theyown most of the town and and so
it got we, we have most of thetown was about three lots.
Yeah, three lots yeah, and abunch of bunch of broken down
buildings, but then then but webought the farm with that, so it
was a historic place too, andin fact Mrs Nash just died she
(41:34):
was 97 years old just a fewweeks ago and it was important
to them that it's sold to afamily.
You know what I mean.
So my son's up there and tookhis three daughters and wife up
there and they're making plentyof money at home.
Colter DeVries (41:49):
Well, as we wrap this up, I want to hear a
little more about your servicesand how people can get in touch
with you.
Where can they find you?
How do they contact you?
Ken Arthun (41:58):
Yeah, well, I just want to say we have.
You know, I've dealt with a lotof family issues over the years
too, and people I was.
I was on the school board for12 years and the farm credit
board for 12 years, and so Ihave a lot of experience with
people.
And in fact, I think the lastschool board election I ran
(42:20):
unopposed and I think of the 246votes I got 220, some, and I
thought, my God, if you can beon the school board for 12 years
and only piss off 20 people, Ithought I must've done a hell of
a job.
And so I, anyhow, I I I thinkthat that I can provide a lot of
the services that I spoke aboutearlier.
Plus, I have a lot of familyexperience and people experience
(42:45):
and and I've always, you know,like you said, mediation would
be way better than you know.
Getting to the court system, Imean, the court system is there.
I guess, if you, like you said,you know if you have some water
issues you have to address, butit sure is nice to settle
things toe-to-toe sometimes andthat's sometimes, I think,
(43:05):
what's most lost in this land.
Transferring to this the newerMontanans, you know.
So I think I can provide thattoo.
So I have a website.
It's arthunresources.
com.
A-r-t-h-u-n.
Yeah, u-n, yeah, resourcecom.
And I'll give my number too.
(43:26):
It's 406-220-1556.
So that's my phone number.
Colter DeVries (43:32):
Well, I appreciate you coming on the
podcast and giving yourperspective.
We certainly don't see theWilkes brothers on school boards
, do we?
Ken Arthun (43:40):
Yeah, for sure we don't.
And as part of Montana, youprobably won't see again.
Colter DeVries (43:46):
No, no, this is in the rear view, and guys like
you and I are trying to figureout how to add value looking
through the windshield.
Ken Arthun (43:54):
Absolutely, and thank you, coulter, very much
for having me on.
It's been great chatting withyou and, like you say, your name
is so familiar too and it's socool to see that Montana Just
the coolest thing.
Colter DeVries (44:08):
Well, Ken Arthun arthunresources.
com, thanks for coming on theranch investor podcast.
Ken Arthun (44:14):
It's been a pleasure thank you very much again,
coulter click subscribe on yourstreaming platform, so you know
when the latest episode hasdropped.
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