January 8, 2021 • 24 mins
If you are a bride or wedding professional you won't want to miss this episode. We'll be talking about COVID-19, Brides, and Wedding Vendors.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Crystal (00:04):
In today's episode, we're gonna be talking about
COVID-19 wedding refunds. Comingup next.
Cathy (00:19):
Hey Hey everybody, Happy Friday, January 8th our awesome
second episode of Rant andResolve. Hey, Crystal, how was
your week?
Crystal (00:32):
My week has been amazing. I got to meet one of my
neighbors.
Cathy (00:39):
How was your weekend?
Crystal (00:40):
Amazing. Okay. Oh, it has been it's been amazing. And
I got to meet one of myneighbors after selling of my
home. And I'm so excited becauseshe does nails. And she's gonna
give me a complementary nailsession this evening in the
(01:04):
middle of her garage. I'mtotally gonna be on a mask out
in the garage wearing my coffeecup of coffee pajama pants and
it's gonna be awesome.
Cathy (01:15):
Okay, that sounds like a fun friday night.
Crystal (01:19):
Yeah. A little bit of wine, a little bit of nails, a
little bit of protecting myself.
Cathy (01:26):
It's been a crazy week for us over at Webxly trying to
get all these clients getting towake up, you know, give us their
stuff. It's been really fun. Ofcourse, you know, I'm okay with
it. Because I'm think I'm stilltrying to wake up. I'm not a big
fan of this cold weather. It'sit's not it's not my thing. I'm
like, you know, sunnyCalifornia, bring on the Sun 70
(01:48):
degree weather. I don't know,man. I don't know how many more
clothes I can put on.
Crystal (01:55):
Oh my gosh, I totally agree with you. I do not like
the cold at all
Cathy (02:00):
And it's like in Texas, it's like you're either one
extreme or the other. Ourweather is crazy. So if you're
not from Texas, it's a greatplace to live. But we don't have
four seasons over here. It'slike cold or really, really hot.
And you're lucky if you get a 70degree day. It's crazy.
Crystal (02:17):
So True
Cathy (02:18):
I'm super excited. For those of you who haven't heard
us yet are just joining in onthis first or the second
episode. My name is Cathy. I'myour host here at Rand and
Resolve. And I've got crystalhere with us, your co host who's
going to be telling us about ournext submitted rant.
Crystal (02:36):
So I have a good one for ya. I'm actually excited to
talk about this particular rant.
For those of you that don'tknow, I was a wedding planner
for a brief minute, like sevenyears seven beautiful, long,
long, wonderfully happily blissyears.
Cathy (03:01):
Sounds like a good marriage,
Crystal (03:04):
just like that, yeah, seven years, got the itch needed
to go on and do something new.
So yeah, I'm still fulfillingsome of my commitments, but
being part of the Webxly teamand Rant and Resolve co host
full time now. So that'sexciting for me to get back into
what I already love doing andwhat I know how to do as well.
So yeah, I'm taking a break fromthe wedding world. But the one
(03:26):
that I want to talk to you abouttoday this rant is in the
wedding industry. And the rantcomes from a brides perspective.
So here we go. Her rant is this.
Why are wedding vendors in Waco,Texas refusing to refund
expensive deposits when weddingshave to be canceled due to
(03:48):
COVID-19? a photographer wecontracted with is not only
refusing to refund our $1,000but she thinks she is going to
charge us another $500 for theengagement pics, she took. Her
resolve is this (04:05):
is there a way to communicate with wedding
vendors that people are scaredfor their health and safety of
loved ones and we've lost ourjobs. Small businesses qualify
for SBA assistance, but we asconsumers do not. Please refund
monies for services where youhave done zero contracted work.
(04:30):
So one to this bride I am sosorry that you know this has
been a frustrating time.
Cathy Thomas (04:39):
I mean, I know even for me, you know I was with
you DJing for the last wonderfulseven years, not just your
weddings, but other events andcorporate events and stuff and
it really has taken a toll and Ithink what's what was really
cool was I have already beenworking with Webxly to bring
Webxly in But, and I hadannounced my retirement, what,
(05:04):
two years ago. So within thosetwo years, I still had to
fulfill those commitments duringCOVID. I, I know, we just had
one in November that you and Idid together, which was a little
iffy, even even after all thishappened. So I mean, I can
completely relate, as far as youknow, definitely. This goes and
her concern for sure. I mean, Ireally can.
Crystal (05:27):
Absolutely, you know, and Cathy, you know, so much,
you know, as a wedding vendoryourself in the past being a DJ.
And you know, we've kind of gonethrough the trenches together in
a lot of weddings, and it's beena lot of fun. I want to address
this brides frustration, becausebeing a wedding planner, I have
worked with a lot of weddingprofessionals, not just
(05:48):
photographers, but a DJ, likeyou, Cathy, catering companies,
venues, I mean, the list goes onsome of my weddings, I have 20,
I've had 20 to 25 weddingvendors and professionals and
being in the industry for sevenyears. I have great
relationships with a lot ofreally great professionals. And
so I can understand this bridesfrustration, and I also
(06:11):
understand it from the industryas well. So I want to address
first her concern, and we'rejust going to call her Miss
bride, Miss bride, you know, Iget your frustration with the
monies that are out. So I wouldalso like to address that it's
not just in Waco, Texas, mostwedding professionals do not
(06:32):
refund deposits, period COVID-19or otherwise. For me,
specifically, I can tell youthat I have a policy of no
refunds on my deposits. Andwhen COVID-19 hit, one of the
things that I put into measurewas to make sure I was 100%
there for my bribes. If any ofthem had balances due on the
(06:55):
account with me, I would suspendtheir payment plans, so they
wouldn't have to spend any moremoney. So when they paid me my
deposit, that was money thatthey had at that time. So
refunding that money back waskind of null and void, but what
I did do to be helpful inhelping them was any of their
(07:16):
unpaid balances. I would tellthem like, Look, do COVID-19 My
recommendation is we change yourwedding day, let's get into a
safer time. Most of my brideswere understanding a few were
challenged with that.
Cathy (07:28):
Yeah, and I remember if your policy, your policy, even
even a small weddingprofessional solopreneur like
yourself, your policy stated,hey, we'll adjust up to one
year, you know, reschedule oradjust your schedule up to one
year, I believe that was inthere.
Crystal (07:46):
Absolutely, And you like if for any reason, you
know, I had a bride who had adeath in the family, and had to
reschedule her wedding day.
Cathy (07:55):
And a lot of vendors don't even do that yet. Vendors
don't even do that. So that youdidn't have that. So Okay, go
ahead. I just wanted to leteverybody know, you were pretty
lenient on your pay, you paid memoney, we can change the date up
to a year, but after that yougave a lot.
Crystal (08:13):
Absolutely. And the reason why deposits or you know,
retainers, depending on the, youknow, professional or non
refundable is, you know, in thewedding industry, the only way
that any of these smallbusinesses make money are based
on calendar dates. So when thatdate is booked, then you put
money down to reserve that date,should you choose to cancel or
(08:36):
otherwise, then that's a datethat another bride or a couple
could have been booked on. Andso that's the only way the
industry makes its money. Andoftentimes people think that
whether a wedding planner, or aphotographer, or DJ, or
whatever, that you just make allthis money because the word
wedding is in front of it. Andthat's not necessarily true. We
have to work really, reallyhard. We work long hours, we
(08:58):
spent a lot of time with ourcouples. And in the payoff is
not always as great as you thinkit would be. Especially because
not everybody's getting marriedevery single month. So it's
often seasonal. And so these arethe kinds of things that we talk
about when we talk aboutdeposits and refunds and things
of that nature. Specifically, Iwant to address this bride and
(09:19):
the photographer that shecontracted with a couple of
things that were just a littlebit miscommunicating. I don't
know if that was intentional ornot. But on one hand, the $1,000
refund is what she's asking forback based on the calendar date.
I'm not sure if thisphotographer offered another
date or not. But most weddingprofessionals do to COVID the
ones that I have spoken to andcommunicated with we're very
(09:41):
flexible on changing dates, butthey had to be dates need to be
changed within a certain timeperiod because you have to think
about going into 2021 and whatthat year is going to look like
so there's that to be said.
Additionally, she's saying thatthis photographer is wanting to
charge her another $500 for theengagement pictures that she
(10:02):
took, here's what I know, is ifthe photographer is charging you
$500 for the engagement picturesthat she took, and then
obviously she did the work. AndI would recommend as a resolve
that you ask them photographerfor your engagement photos, so
you have them at whatever futuredate you're going to get married
on, obviously, due to COVID-19,you might have to move it your
(10:23):
wedding until another year fromnow. So with that being said,
lots of respect to the weddingprofessionals, and you just have
to understand that we're allwork on a calendar basis. And
with that being said, refundsare usually not, you know, given
back on deposits, it's just thestandard industry circumstances,
I would ask your photographer ifshe's comfortable with another
(10:46):
date and keep moving forward.
And so but Cathy, what is yourtake on this?
Cathy Thomas (10:52):
Well I mean, you obviously have the expert
knowledge as far as the vendorsgo, and I do I do agree with
you, I mean, a lot of thesevendors, or wedding
professionals, some of them,they don't, they're not a large
corporation, okay. So you'retalking about a husband and
(11:12):
wife, photography team, or evenjust a solo photographer, or a
solo wedding planner, when youhire a wedding planner, you're
not getting a team, you mightget coordinators, or people that
show up or staff. But usuallythose guys are even contracted
out. I know, in your business,Crystal, you contracted out a
(11:33):
lot of your girls, and you had acouple of them that you just
continually, you know, paidthroughout the year to come and
you know, work with you to doyour events, but it was your
business, right. So you've gotto make sure that all that
money's there for you, as thebusiness owner to cover your
overhead. But then also, they'renot cashing in because that you
didn't have to pay that team orthat staff member. But I know as
(11:56):
a wedding planner, and in thewedding industry, you spend a
year working with these..
Crystal (12:01):
if not longer.
Cathy (12:02):
If not longer, o people don't understand t
at the time is spent. And reall, it's kind of like you're sho
ing up for the day, because tey've spent so much time with
ou all the way up to your weddig. That if you were to calcul
te the emails, the late night clls, the quick calls, the short
alls, the long calls, right? Inyour case, the therap
Crystal (12:23):
lots of therapy sessions,
Unknown (12:25):
you know, I mean,
Crystal (12:27):
and mothers of the bride,
Cathy (12:29):
yeah. and you just can't account for that. So a lot of
these people are like, I want torefund and we've done this much,
or we haven't done this much, orwhatever. There's two things
that I want to say real quick.
One is, so the fact that you hadengagement pics taken, so you
obviously had paid for somework. So you've got to take that
with you. The other thing is, isyou have to leave these we have
(12:54):
to leave these returns, refundsreschedules. Really in the hands
of the contractual agreementthat you signed? So first of
all, I would have said, Did youread the original contract? And
I know in my DJ contract, I hadwords like act of God, which
would cover that COVID-19 thethings that you didn't predict,
(13:18):
right. And that's what gave youa whole nother year to still
have me because should have beenan act of God where I couldn't
DJ and I had to bring somebodyelse in. I had to make sure I
was covered. It could have beenan act of I could have got
struck by lightning. So you justthere's certain things my point
in this is that there's certainthings that contracts cover. And
(13:39):
so you want to make sure thatwhen you're hiring a wedding
professional or any professionalthat's a solopreneur that does
this type of work and it's not aquote corporation or a larger
business, you really need tolook at the fine print of those
contracts. I think you wouldagree with me on that crystal.
My my second point to cover realquick is the SB a loan at the
(14:01):
time that this rant wassubmitted COVID-19 just became
public right we were alreadydoing things in March to get the
SBA loans right. Okay, so whenall of the SBA loans and they
were introducing the PPP, rightthe paycheck protection plan,
(14:22):
you've got to realize that a lotof these wedding industry pros
were solopreneurs half of themyou were Venmoing money to your
cash apping money to so theyweren't running a straight up
invoice business. Now I knowcrystal for a fact you you send
(14:42):
an invoice you ran yourinvoicing through the square,
you tracked your expenses, youtracked everything you are doing
what it took as far as yourtaxes went right to claim and do
those taxes. A lot of these parttime wedding professionals They
didn't even qualify. And here'swhy they didn't qualify. Because
(15:03):
in order to get any of thoseloans, you had to show tax
returns, you had to show youwere had full employee expenses.
So when you say things like, youknow, hey, you're a small
business, you own this business,you can go get a paycheck
Protection Program, or SBA loan,the truth of the matter is, you
(15:23):
can't get that loan becausethose people weren't even they
were, they weren't even doingtheir taxes, right, to be able
to qualify for that loan, we sawa lot of business owners just
get really screwed, because theyweren't doing what they were
supposed to be doing in order toeven qualify. And to get a small
business loan period, you haveto show your tax returns. Well,
these guys are all showinglosses, right? I mean, so how
(15:47):
are you going it alone? If youshow a loss? Or how are you
going to look going to getalone, if you miss bride, or
Venmoing, me your paycheck, youknow, your Venmo showing me your
payment for your wedding that Imay or may not show up on? So, I
mean, all I'm saying is like,you think that these not, you
(16:09):
know, you think that these smallwedding professionals are these
small businesses, don't get mewrong. There are a lot of
wedding professionals,especially that we know crystal
who have run catering and foodand opened up a restaurant or
vice versa, had a restaurant andthen you know, due to COVID,
they turned around and starteddelivering food or utilizing
these other delivery services.
(16:33):
So a lot of things. There's alot of great companies out
there. But my questions reallywould be for this resolve would
be one, are you looking overyour contract when you hire
photographer or any type ofsolopreneur like that? Are you
looking over your contract,making sure that you're paying
50%, or whatever it is thatthey've agreed and making sure
(16:54):
that you've agreed to that. Sothat would be number one. And
then number two, my resolve is,if you're a small business
owner, start doing your taxes,because you missed out on some
nice paycheck protection. Andsome of it's actually even being
forgiven. And they're about todo a second round, and you don't
have any document, you know, youdon't have anything. So I would
(17:17):
tell the small business ownersto stop asking for Venmo and
cash apps. Because one, it's notprofessional to it's just like
sending a friend money.
Crystal (17:27):
Pretty much
Cathy (17:28):
You want to have that contract and that legitimate,
professional that you're workingwith that. Don't get me wrong, I
want a solopreneur I want thisphotographer to be successful.
You know,
Crystal (17:40):
Absolutely.
Cathy (17:41):
You agree with me, you know, but I think that as the
bride, you've got to read thecontract. And as the
photographer, you've got to beclear in your contract. And then
these questions are I would ask.
Yeah, I think that's my resolve.
Crystal (17:55):
The one other thing that I see so many times when
brides have come to me andthey've already started hiring
vendors, before I've even beenable to help them fully plan. It
is shocking, that I get that youhave to be on a budget. But I
also would say to our couples,that it is so important that you
(18:16):
are hiring fully realprofessionals,
Cathy (18:21):
Licensed and insured,
Crystal (18:22):
Licensed and insured, if they are not providing a
contract to you, then thatleaves a lot of gray area and
that can put you and yourwedding into a really serious
predicament. I don't know thecircumstances between this bride
and her photographer, if therewas a contract, if not, if it
(18:42):
was just a cash app square andlike whatever. I don't know how
this transpired. But I would sayto all of our couples out there,
really truly vet you'reprofessionals that you're hiring
for your wedding, becauseoftentimes if you get a contract
read through it, like Cathymentioned, it will tell you in
those contracts, what you'relooking for, if you're worried
(19:03):
about that, get a weddingplanner, so that way they can
help you review these contractsand and make sure before you
sign or pay anybody anythingthat you are protected. That's
what wedding planners do, theyprotect you. And they work with
your vendors. So that way, ittakes out a lot of the stress
for you.
Cathy (19:21):
So the one last thing I wanted to add that I thought was
really important, and I thinkmaybe, you know goes back to our
mission here at Rant andResolve. And I think it's about
education. And I think one ofthe things if you are planning
your wedding, I know that thereare weddings and events
happening with smaller groups ofpeople and things like that. So
this is going to be even moreimportant for you to realize one
(19:45):
important thing when it comes tosmall business or solopreneurs
meaning your DJ, your weddingplanner, your photographer or
your husband and wife,photographer team who's doing it
on the weekend for extra money,whatever the job is. We want to
encourage those people, becausewe hope that they can do it full
time. Or if it's just somethingthey're doing for fun, and
(20:06):
they're really good at it. Thisis awesome. So we want to
support those solopreneurs. Forsure, I want you to understand a
mini business model when itcomes to running a business as a
solopreneur. So if you look at acalendar, there are 52 weeks in
(20:27):
a year. So that's, you know, 52weekends, okay, so if you
crystal or any other weddingperson was working in event on
Friday, Saturday and Sunday,that means your whole entire you
were doing a wedding on Friday,a wedding on Saturday and a
wedding on Sunday. You're nottalking about 156 events, okay,
(20:50):
a year. So if you book thatdate, on a specific date, and
it's like a 1010, or an eight,eight, or a popular number, and
you have to save your date,because that planner is relying
on you. Because of thatimportant date, that important
(21:11):
weekend fills their calendarwith a booking with a booking
for that event, that's theirlivelihood, you are have
committed to a certain date. Soif you don't get your refund for
committing to a popular date,there's a reason why. And I'll
tell you what happened. 90 daysbefore the wedding, we would
(21:32):
have people randomly decide notto get married, or this was
happening in 2010. Right 2015people would cancel their
wedding, they'd find out thatsomebody was cheating, or they
just decided they didn't want todo it. So they would cancel. And
then once these refunds, well,what happens is it leaves the
wedding professional with anopen date and only 90 days to
(21:55):
fill it. If you're trying tobook your wedding vendor in 90
days, good luck finding one,right? Because the best ones
book out six months, a year totwo years. So as a bride and a
couple, you've already startedyour wedding planning a year
head, right, you've alreadybooked your venue, you've
already planned your wedding. Sothe way this works is is is if
(22:20):
you pick a good date, we got youcan't get a refund, when it's
booked out so far. Andespecially when it comes to
these kind of events. All theycan do is try to work with you.
So I'm going to encourage thewedding pro to work with your
brides the best that you can,like we've seen our role model
crystal do. But I'm also goingto encourage you guys as
(22:43):
business owners to you know, dothat. And then of course Brides,
you're going to have to youknow, look at your contracts.
Crystal (22:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Cathy, I think you make anexcellent point. We're here to
support both sides. I've beenthere. I get it. You know, I
hear this brides frustration.
But I have to say I alsocompletely understand it from a
professional in the weddingindustry. And what that
livelihood looks like to them,they have children, they have
(23:13):
families, they they This issomething for a lot of them this
is their livelihood, and youknow have to take that into
consideration as well.
Cathy (23:22):
So we've got I think we've got a lot of wedding rants
coming above, coming up heresoon.
Crystal (23:27):
Oh, yeah, I have our stories for ya.
Cathy (23:30):
You know, Crystal, thanks so much for giving us your
insight. Thank you guys againfor joining us for our second
episode of Rant and Resolvewhere we help bring both the
consumers and the businessowners together to do what
helped create the ultimatebuying and selling experience.
(23:50):
Guess what, we'll see you onnext week's episode we're going
to be talking about a salon whohad to remove their ad for
hiring or asking for a happystylist. Haha,
Crystal (24:03):
I cannot wait to talk about this one.
Cathy (24:06):
Thanks for listening,
Crystal (24:07):
See y'all.
In today's episode, we're gonna be talking about
COVID-19 wedding refunds. Comingup next.
Cathy (00:19):
Hey Hey everybody, Happy Friday, January 8th our awesome
second episode of Rant andResolve. Hey, Crystal, how was
your week?
Crystal (00:32):
My week has been amazing. I got to meet one of my
neighbors.
Cathy (00:39):
How was your weekend?
Crystal (00:40):
Amazing. Okay. Oh, it has been it's been amazing. And
I got to meet one of myneighbors after selling of my
home. And I'm so excited becauseshe does nails. And she's gonna
give me a complementary nailsession this evening in the
(01:04):
middle of her garage. I'mtotally gonna be on a mask out
in the garage wearing my coffeecup of coffee pajama pants and
it's gonna be awesome.
Cathy (01:15):
Okay, that sounds like a fun friday night.
Crystal (01:19):
Yeah. A little bit of wine, a little bit of nails, a
little bit of protecting myself.
Cathy (01:26):
It's been a crazy week for us over at Webxly trying to
get all these clients getting towake up, you know, give us their
stuff. It's been really fun. Ofcourse, you know, I'm okay with
it. Because I'm think I'm stilltrying to wake up. I'm not a big
fan of this cold weather. It'sit's not it's not my thing. I'm
like, you know, sunnyCalifornia, bring on the Sun 70
(01:48):
degree weather. I don't know,man. I don't know how many more
clothes I can put on.
Crystal (01:55):
Oh my gosh, I totally agree with you. I do not like
the cold at all
Cathy (02:00):
And it's like in Texas, it's like you're either one
extreme or the other. Ourweather is crazy. So if you're
not from Texas, it's a greatplace to live. But we don't have
four seasons over here. It'slike cold or really, really hot.
And you're lucky if you get a 70degree day. It's crazy.
Crystal (02:17):
So True
Cathy (02:18):
I'm super excited. For those of you who haven't heard
us yet are just joining in onthis first or the second
episode. My name is Cathy. I'myour host here at Rand and
Resolve. And I've got crystalhere with us, your co host who's
going to be telling us about ournext submitted rant.
Crystal (02:36):
So I have a good one for ya. I'm actually excited to
talk about this particular rant.
For those of you that don'tknow, I was a wedding planner
for a brief minute, like sevenyears seven beautiful, long,
long, wonderfully happily blissyears.
Cathy (03:01):
Sounds like a good marriage,
Crystal (03:04):
just like that, yeah, seven years, got the itch needed
to go on and do something new.
So yeah, I'm still fulfillingsome of my commitments, but
being part of the Webxly teamand Rant and Resolve co host
full time now. So that'sexciting for me to get back into
what I already love doing andwhat I know how to do as well.
So yeah, I'm taking a break fromthe wedding world. But the one
(03:26):
that I want to talk to you abouttoday this rant is in the
wedding industry. And the rantcomes from a brides perspective.
So here we go. Her rant is this.
Why are wedding vendors in Waco,Texas refusing to refund
expensive deposits when weddingshave to be canceled due to
(03:48):
COVID-19? a photographer wecontracted with is not only
refusing to refund our $1,000but she thinks she is going to
charge us another $500 for theengagement pics, she took. Her
resolve is this (04:05):
is there a way to communicate with wedding
vendors that people are scaredfor their health and safety of
loved ones and we've lost ourjobs. Small businesses qualify
for SBA assistance, but we asconsumers do not. Please refund
monies for services where youhave done zero contracted work.
(04:30):
So one to this bride I am sosorry that you know this has
been a frustrating time.
Cathy Thomas (04:39):
I mean, I know even for me, you know I was with
you DJing for the last wonderfulseven years, not just your
weddings, but other events andcorporate events and stuff and
it really has taken a toll and Ithink what's what was really
cool was I have already beenworking with Webxly to bring
Webxly in But, and I hadannounced my retirement, what,
(05:04):
two years ago. So within thosetwo years, I still had to
fulfill those commitments duringCOVID. I, I know, we just had
one in November that you and Idid together, which was a little
iffy, even even after all thishappened. So I mean, I can
completely relate, as far as youknow, definitely. This goes and
her concern for sure. I mean, Ireally can.
Crystal (05:27):
Absolutely, you know, and Cathy, you know, so much,
you know, as a wedding vendoryourself in the past being a DJ.
And you know, we've kind of gonethrough the trenches together in
a lot of weddings, and it's beena lot of fun. I want to address
this brides frustration, becausebeing a wedding planner, I have
worked with a lot of weddingprofessionals, not just
(05:48):
photographers, but a DJ, likeyou, Cathy, catering companies,
venues, I mean, the list goes onsome of my weddings, I have 20,
I've had 20 to 25 weddingvendors and professionals and
being in the industry for sevenyears. I have great
relationships with a lot ofreally great professionals. And
so I can understand this bridesfrustration, and I also
(06:11):
understand it from the industryas well. So I want to address
first her concern, and we'rejust going to call her Miss
bride, Miss bride, you know, Iget your frustration with the
monies that are out. So I wouldalso like to address that it's
not just in Waco, Texas, mostwedding professionals do not
(06:32):
refund deposits, period COVID-19or otherwise. For me,
specifically, I can tell youthat I have a policy of no
refunds on my deposits. Andwhen COVID-19 hit, one of the
things that I put into measurewas to make sure I was 100%
there for my bribes. If any ofthem had balances due on the
(06:55):
account with me, I would suspendtheir payment plans, so they
wouldn't have to spend any moremoney. So when they paid me my
deposit, that was money thatthey had at that time. So
refunding that money back waskind of null and void, but what
I did do to be helpful inhelping them was any of their
(07:16):
unpaid balances. I would tellthem like, Look, do COVID-19 My
recommendation is we change yourwedding day, let's get into a
safer time. Most of my brideswere understanding a few were
challenged with that.
Cathy (07:28):
Yeah, and I remember if your policy, your policy, even
even a small weddingprofessional solopreneur like
yourself, your policy stated,hey, we'll adjust up to one
year, you know, reschedule oradjust your schedule up to one
year, I believe that was inthere.
Crystal (07:46):
Absolutely, And you like if for any reason, you
know, I had a bride who had adeath in the family, and had to
reschedule her wedding day.
Cathy (07:55):
And a lot of vendors don't even do that yet. Vendors
don't even do that. So that youdidn't have that. So Okay, go
ahead. I just wanted to leteverybody know, you were pretty
lenient on your pay, you paid memoney, we can change the date up
to a year, but after that yougave a lot.
Crystal (08:13):
Absolutely. And the reason why deposits or you know,
retainers, depending on the, youknow, professional or non
refundable is, you know, in thewedding industry, the only way
that any of these smallbusinesses make money are based
on calendar dates. So when thatdate is booked, then you put
money down to reserve that date,should you choose to cancel or
(08:36):
otherwise, then that's a datethat another bride or a couple
could have been booked on. Andso that's the only way the
industry makes its money. Andoftentimes people think that
whether a wedding planner, or aphotographer, or DJ, or
whatever, that you just make allthis money because the word
wedding is in front of it. Andthat's not necessarily true. We
have to work really, reallyhard. We work long hours, we
(08:58):
spent a lot of time with ourcouples. And in the payoff is
not always as great as you thinkit would be. Especially because
not everybody's getting marriedevery single month. So it's
often seasonal. And so these arethe kinds of things that we talk
about when we talk aboutdeposits and refunds and things
of that nature. Specifically, Iwant to address this bride and
(09:19):
the photographer that shecontracted with a couple of
things that were just a littlebit miscommunicating. I don't
know if that was intentional ornot. But on one hand, the $1,000
refund is what she's asking forback based on the calendar date.
I'm not sure if thisphotographer offered another
date or not. But most weddingprofessionals do to COVID the
ones that I have spoken to andcommunicated with we're very
(09:41):
flexible on changing dates, butthey had to be dates need to be
changed within a certain timeperiod because you have to think
about going into 2021 and whatthat year is going to look like
so there's that to be said.
Additionally, she's saying thatthis photographer is wanting to
charge her another $500 for theengagement pictures that she
(10:02):
took, here's what I know, is ifthe photographer is charging you
$500 for the engagement picturesthat she took, and then
obviously she did the work. AndI would recommend as a resolve
that you ask them photographerfor your engagement photos, so
you have them at whatever futuredate you're going to get married
on, obviously, due to COVID-19,you might have to move it your
(10:23):
wedding until another year fromnow. So with that being said,
lots of respect to the weddingprofessionals, and you just have
to understand that we're allwork on a calendar basis. And
with that being said, refundsare usually not, you know, given
back on deposits, it's just thestandard industry circumstances,
I would ask your photographer ifshe's comfortable with another
(10:46):
date and keep moving forward.
And so but Cathy, what is yourtake on this?
Cathy Thomas (10:52):
Well I mean, you obviously have the expert
knowledge as far as the vendorsgo, and I do I do agree with
you, I mean, a lot of thesevendors, or wedding
professionals, some of them,they don't, they're not a large
corporation, okay. So you'retalking about a husband and
(11:12):
wife, photography team, or evenjust a solo photographer, or a
solo wedding planner, when youhire a wedding planner, you're
not getting a team, you mightget coordinators, or people that
show up or staff. But usuallythose guys are even contracted
out. I know, in your business,Crystal, you contracted out a
(11:33):
lot of your girls, and you had acouple of them that you just
continually, you know, paidthroughout the year to come and
you know, work with you to doyour events, but it was your
business, right. So you've gotto make sure that all that
money's there for you, as thebusiness owner to cover your
overhead. But then also, they'renot cashing in because that you
didn't have to pay that team orthat staff member. But I know as
(11:56):
a wedding planner, and in thewedding industry, you spend a
year working with these..
Crystal (12:01):
if not longer.
Cathy (12:02):
If not longer, o people don't understand t
at the time is spent. And reall, it's kind of like you're sho
ing up for the day, because tey've spent so much time with
ou all the way up to your weddig. That if you were to calcul
te the emails, the late night clls, the quick calls, the short
alls, the long calls, right? Inyour case, the therap
Crystal (12:23):
lots of therapy sessions,
Unknown (12:25):
you know, I mean,
Crystal (12:27):
and mothers of the bride,
Cathy (12:29):
yeah. and you just can't account for that. So a lot of
these people are like, I want torefund and we've done this much,
or we haven't done this much, orwhatever. There's two things
that I want to say real quick.
One is, so the fact that you hadengagement pics taken, so you
obviously had paid for somework. So you've got to take that
with you. The other thing is, isyou have to leave these we have
(12:54):
to leave these returns, refundsreschedules. Really in the hands
of the contractual agreementthat you signed? So first of
all, I would have said, Did youread the original contract? And
I know in my DJ contract, I hadwords like act of God, which
would cover that COVID-19 thethings that you didn't predict,
(13:18):
right. And that's what gave youa whole nother year to still
have me because should have beenan act of God where I couldn't
DJ and I had to bring somebodyelse in. I had to make sure I
was covered. It could have beenan act of I could have got
struck by lightning. So you justthere's certain things my point
in this is that there's certainthings that contracts cover. And
(13:39):
so you want to make sure thatwhen you're hiring a wedding
professional or any professionalthat's a solopreneur that does
this type of work and it's not aquote corporation or a larger
business, you really need tolook at the fine print of those
contracts. I think you wouldagree with me on that crystal.
My my second point to cover realquick is the SB a loan at the
(14:01):
time that this rant wassubmitted COVID-19 just became
public right we were alreadydoing things in March to get the
SBA loans right. Okay, so whenall of the SBA loans and they
were introducing the PPP, rightthe paycheck protection plan,
(14:22):
you've got to realize that a lotof these wedding industry pros
were solopreneurs half of themyou were Venmoing money to your
cash apping money to so theyweren't running a straight up
invoice business. Now I knowcrystal for a fact you you send
(14:42):
an invoice you ran yourinvoicing through the square,
you tracked your expenses, youtracked everything you are doing
what it took as far as yourtaxes went right to claim and do
those taxes. A lot of these parttime wedding professionals They
didn't even qualify. And here'swhy they didn't qualify. Because
(15:03):
in order to get any of thoseloans, you had to show tax
returns, you had to show youwere had full employee expenses.
So when you say things like, youknow, hey, you're a small
business, you own this business,you can go get a paycheck
Protection Program, or SBA loan,the truth of the matter is, you
(15:23):
can't get that loan becausethose people weren't even they
were, they weren't even doingtheir taxes, right, to be able
to qualify for that loan, we sawa lot of business owners just
get really screwed, because theyweren't doing what they were
supposed to be doing in order toeven qualify. And to get a small
business loan period, you haveto show your tax returns. Well,
these guys are all showinglosses, right? I mean, so how
(15:47):
are you going it alone? If youshow a loss? Or how are you
going to look going to getalone, if you miss bride, or
Venmoing, me your paycheck, youknow, your Venmo showing me your
payment for your wedding that Imay or may not show up on? So, I
mean, all I'm saying is like,you think that these not, you
(16:09):
know, you think that these smallwedding professionals are these
small businesses, don't get mewrong. There are a lot of
wedding professionals,especially that we know crystal
who have run catering and foodand opened up a restaurant or
vice versa, had a restaurant andthen you know, due to COVID,
they turned around and starteddelivering food or utilizing
these other delivery services.
(16:33):
So a lot of things. There's alot of great companies out
there. But my questions reallywould be for this resolve would
be one, are you looking overyour contract when you hire
photographer or any type ofsolopreneur like that? Are you
looking over your contract,making sure that you're paying
50%, or whatever it is thatthey've agreed and making sure
(16:54):
that you've agreed to that. Sothat would be number one. And
then number two, my resolve is,if you're a small business
owner, start doing your taxes,because you missed out on some
nice paycheck protection. Andsome of it's actually even being
forgiven. And they're about todo a second round, and you don't
have any document, you know, youdon't have anything. So I would
(17:17):
tell the small business ownersto stop asking for Venmo and
cash apps. Because one, it's notprofessional to it's just like
sending a friend money.
Crystal (17:27):
Pretty much
Cathy (17:28):
You want to have that contract and that legitimate,
professional that you're workingwith that. Don't get me wrong, I
want a solopreneur I want thisphotographer to be successful.
You know,
Crystal (17:40):
Absolutely.
Cathy (17:41):
You agree with me, you know, but I think that as the
bride, you've got to read thecontract. And as the
photographer, you've got to beclear in your contract. And then
these questions are I would ask.
Yeah, I think that's my resolve.
Crystal (17:55):
The one other thing that I see so many times when
brides have come to me andthey've already started hiring
vendors, before I've even beenable to help them fully plan. It
is shocking, that I get that youhave to be on a budget. But I
also would say to our couples,that it is so important that you
(18:16):
are hiring fully realprofessionals,
Cathy (18:21):
Licensed and insured,
Crystal (18:22):
Licensed and insured, if they are not providing a
contract to you, then thatleaves a lot of gray area and
that can put you and yourwedding into a really serious
predicament. I don't know thecircumstances between this bride
and her photographer, if therewas a contract, if not, if it
(18:42):
was just a cash app square andlike whatever. I don't know how
this transpired. But I would sayto all of our couples out there,
really truly vet you'reprofessionals that you're hiring
for your wedding, becauseoftentimes if you get a contract
read through it, like Cathymentioned, it will tell you in
those contracts, what you'relooking for, if you're worried
(19:03):
about that, get a weddingplanner, so that way they can
help you review these contractsand and make sure before you
sign or pay anybody anythingthat you are protected. That's
what wedding planners do, theyprotect you. And they work with
your vendors. So that way, ittakes out a lot of the stress
for you.
Cathy (19:21):
So the one last thing I wanted to add that I thought was
really important, and I thinkmaybe, you know goes back to our
mission here at Rant andResolve. And I think it's about
education. And I think one ofthe things if you are planning
your wedding, I know that thereare weddings and events
happening with smaller groups ofpeople and things like that. So
this is going to be even moreimportant for you to realize one
(19:45):
important thing when it comes tosmall business or solopreneurs
meaning your DJ, your weddingplanner, your photographer or
your husband and wife,photographer team who's doing it
on the weekend for extra money,whatever the job is. We want to
encourage those people, becausewe hope that they can do it full
time. Or if it's just somethingthey're doing for fun, and
(20:06):
they're really good at it. Thisis awesome. So we want to
support those solopreneurs. Forsure, I want you to understand a
mini business model when itcomes to running a business as a
solopreneur. So if you look at acalendar, there are 52 weeks in
(20:27):
a year. So that's, you know, 52weekends, okay, so if you
crystal or any other weddingperson was working in event on
Friday, Saturday and Sunday,that means your whole entire you
were doing a wedding on Friday,a wedding on Saturday and a
wedding on Sunday. You're nottalking about 156 events, okay,
(20:50):
a year. So if you book thatdate, on a specific date, and
it's like a 1010, or an eight,eight, or a popular number, and
you have to save your date,because that planner is relying
on you. Because of thatimportant date, that important
(21:11):
weekend fills their calendarwith a booking with a booking
for that event, that's theirlivelihood, you are have
committed to a certain date. Soif you don't get your refund for
committing to a popular date,there's a reason why. And I'll
tell you what happened. 90 daysbefore the wedding, we would
(21:32):
have people randomly decide notto get married, or this was
happening in 2010. Right 2015people would cancel their
wedding, they'd find out thatsomebody was cheating, or they
just decided they didn't want todo it. So they would cancel. And
then once these refunds, well,what happens is it leaves the
wedding professional with anopen date and only 90 days to
(21:55):
fill it. If you're trying tobook your wedding vendor in 90
days, good luck finding one,right? Because the best ones
book out six months, a year totwo years. So as a bride and a
couple, you've already startedyour wedding planning a year
head, right, you've alreadybooked your venue, you've
already planned your wedding. Sothe way this works is is is if
(22:20):
you pick a good date, we got youcan't get a refund, when it's
booked out so far. Andespecially when it comes to
these kind of events. All theycan do is try to work with you.
So I'm going to encourage thewedding pro to work with your
brides the best that you can,like we've seen our role model
crystal do. But I'm also goingto encourage you guys as
(22:43):
business owners to you know, dothat. And then of course Brides,
you're going to have to youknow, look at your contracts.
Crystal (22:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Cathy, I think you make anexcellent point. We're here to
support both sides. I've beenthere. I get it. You know, I
hear this brides frustration.
But I have to say I alsocompletely understand it from a
professional in the weddingindustry. And what that
livelihood looks like to them,they have children, they have
(23:13):
families, they they This issomething for a lot of them this
is their livelihood, and youknow have to take that into
consideration as well.
Cathy (23:22):
So we've got I think we've got a lot of wedding rants
coming above, coming up heresoon.
Crystal (23:27):
Oh, yeah, I have our stories for ya.
Cathy (23:30):
You know, Crystal, thanks so much for giving us your
insight. Thank you guys againfor joining us for our second
episode of Rant and Resolvewhere we help bring both the
consumers and the businessowners together to do what
helped create the ultimatebuying and selling experience.
(23:50):
Guess what, we'll see you onnext week's episode we're going
to be talking about a salon whohad to remove their ad for
hiring or asking for a happystylist. Haha,
Crystal (24:03):
I cannot wait to talk about this one.
Cathy (24:06):
Thanks for listening,
Crystal (24:07):
See y'all.
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