Raising $120 Million | Kerry-Ann Powell

Kerry-Ann, with over 20 years as a DC attorney, lobbyist, and fundraiser, is an expert in strategic success. After raising $120 million for the MLK Jr. memorial, she founded Trafalgar Strategies, advising business owners on strategies and mindsets for success. Her expertise is recognized by international brands and organizations, underscoring the importance of small and medium-sized businesses to economies.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
The show you need to get what you desire.
By avoiding the mistakes made by others beforeyou, learn the stories and journeys of what
success looks like to find a freedom youdeserve while thriving with your best life.
And now I present to you the 1, the only rapidresults with Andrew Andrew.

(00:26):
Welcome
to another episode of rapid results with AndrewWeiss.
We have a very lovely guest today, Carrie AnnPowell.
And for those who don't know who this wonderfulwoman is, She has varied experience of over 20
years as a Washington DC attorney, lobbyists,and fundraiser positions, and fundraiser as

(00:51):
she's an authority of what it takesstrategically succeed while confronting
difficult obstacles after raising a$120,000,000 to build the Martin Luther King
Memorial She launched her strategic businessconsulting firm Trafalgar Strategies.
She and her team advised business owners fromvarious industries and countries on creating
strategies, systems, and mindsets to thrive inbusiness and in life.

(01:13):
She's committed to spreading the gospel thatrunning a small and medium sized business vital
important to our economies, yet it doesn't haveto feel like trying to manage a chaotic tornado
as business owners can run their businessessmoothly and feel confident that they will
thrive.
We have the wonderful Carrie Ann.
Thank you for joining us today.
Andrew, my man.
Thanks for having me on.
Yes.
So the first question we wanna ask is what'sthe biggest and best business deal you are most

(01:37):
proud of and love to hear that?
Well, you know, I had some really great fun,amazing things that have happened to me,
particularly in my business at TrafalgarStrategies.
But still it remains.
The most rewarding thing that I've done was,raising that $120,000,000 to build a Martin
Luther King Memorial.
Every time I see someone post a picture onsocial media, it just makes my heart go pitter

(02:03):
patter, it leaks to joy.
So that's what I would say.
Andrew that's the memorial that, everyonerecognizes.
Yes.
In Washington, right there on the nationalmall.
Wow.
That's incredible.
So let's Have you been able
to be there to visit?
Yeah.
I have.
Yes.
No.
It's, I forget, it's a I don't I don't forget.

(02:23):
Yeah.
So we went there for DC for, my my wife,Alicia.
She had a show over there, and we got toeverything.
And I remember riding by my bike and going,This is so cool.
And, the people there on their bikes too.
And then, it's how big it is too.
It's massive.
It's thirty feet.
30 feet.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
So the fact that you you were a part of that,and that's gonna be there probably forever and

(02:48):
ever, hopefully.
So Yeah.
It's so legendary.
Something that I'm quite proud of.
And, I mean, I've got some really great shotsthat just so happened when they were building
it.
You know, so it's sort of built.
Many people don't know this, but it's actuallycut in different chunks.
So it's built almost like a puzzle or somethingbecause it's just too big to to move.
Yeah?
So when they were raising the arms, which isthe part where his arms are sort of like, you

(03:12):
know, crossed, it's like the biggest part ofthe memorial Andrew just so happened, I was
touring a couple of, prospective $1,000,000donors down there that day, and they were
lifting it up that day.
So I have these great photographs of myself.
Andrew right by the arm and standing, you know,when they're raising it.
It's such a great memory.
Oh, that is so awesome.
And I'm sure for the audience turning in,they're like, Well, how the heck do I raise a

(03:36):
$120,000,000 for anything ever?
So I'd love for you to take us back in thejourney obviously, he didn't come out of the
womb going, oh, I'm gonna raise a 120,000,000for it.
And we'll give him more.
How how did this all come to be.
Tell us about that.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I cut my teeth right aftercollege.
You know, I was I was planning on going to medschool.

(03:57):
Andrew, I decided I didn't really wanna dothat.
1, because, well, I didn't do very well inphysics.
Hello.
I don't know how those people do that thing.
But, so I wasn't really sure what I wanted todo after college, after, you know, having spent
all that time thinking I was gonna, become adoctor.
So, you know, I said, okay.
Well, one of my good friends, she got, a jobworking for the United Way, which is, I mean,

(04:21):
for for those of you who don't who are maybeinternational audiences.
It's a very large, fundraising organizationthat helps great charities Andrew but it's
basically helps, folks who are working incorporate to be able to contribute to their
payroll.
Anyway, so, you know, one of my good friends islike, hey, at this job, working at at at the
United Way, and they're looking for someone tocome in and do full time work, but only for

(04:45):
half of the year.
During their campaign season.
Is it okay?
I'll do that.
I went into that while I was trying to process,you know, okay.
What's my next step?
Andrew, I was probably I was thinking aboutheading to, to to graduate school.
Afterwards, well, anyway, I got the job Andrew,basically, from there, was able to get an get

(05:06):
become a a division director.
Andrew, which is a fundraising director.
And I was the youngest one to be hired for thatrole.
Anyway, I did that for a number of for 3 years,and I just learned how to fundraise large
amounts of money by, you know, observing, bydoing, by watching, by, you know, this, you
know, anyway, any after that, I went to lawschool, became a lobbyist, blah blah blah.

(05:26):
What what was that first, moment where you'relike, what the heck?
How did this person raise?
Mad dollars just by doing x?
Like, what what was that in the
You know, it's interesting.
It's just a skill Andrew people do this intheir business as well.
It's the capacity to be able to, 1st of all,really believe in what it is that you are
selling.
And selling is everyone gets I don't know whypeople get weird about selling.

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Nothing happens in life until you sellsomething.
Right?
So whether it's it's it's the ideal of, youknow, selling a particular, ideal that you
have, whether for the minority of the game ofmemorialists, I believe in freedom and justice,
and I want there to be something there to tostand for my ideals.
Or it could be a situation where you're sellinga product.

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But either way, being able to understand andhelp someone First, you've gotta believe in it.
Then so if you don't believe in your product, Idon't I can't help you there.
Right?
Yeah.
So and then being able to sort of understandwhere the the the customer or the person on the
other side is is coming from.
What do they really want what are their whatare their desires?

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So, you know, if you're selling to someone,hey, you know, we'd love for you to purchase
this product just because you think they shouldpurchase this product, because there's a
because the reason why so say for instance,it's a dog product.
It's a pet product.
You're like, you know, you should purchase aproduct because it's healthier for your pet.
Or maybe the real issue for them is, well, I'vejust tried everything else, and I'm just kinda
tired of, you know, I'm I wanna save money.

(06:56):
You figure out what the reason is why someonewants to purchase or wants to give Andrew you
you present them with that opportunity based onwhat their desires are, not what you think.
Right?
So I learned I watched I watched people,particularly, you know, I was peer how you
work, how this particular process would work iswe were paired with citizen volunteers.

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So they were always CEOs of major corporationsin our city.
And so so that was another thing too.
I got a chance to really kind of bond and buildrelationships with CEOs of of large
corporations.
And so they're on our board Andrew they're on,you know, so then I was paired with them Andrew
would go on meetings together.
And, you know, I was like, 21 at the time.

(07:41):
Right?
Wow.
Yeah.
I don't really know.
I'm like, you know, when you're 21, all youhave is full of confidence.
You don't have anything else about confidence.
Yeah.
But I went in because I was eager to learnAndrew so I really sat back and watched a bit
about how they interacted with their peers.
The kinds of questions that they asked the theway that they the cadence, right, of how do you

(08:05):
when do you pause, when do you stop?
When do you go faster?
When do you slow down?
And I would just really watched it.
And I was like, okay.
Well, that clearly a pattern.
You also began I was lucky because I was notjust with one particular CEO.
I was worth a couple others.
So I was able to see how different styles playthe selves out as well.

(08:26):
And from there, I just really got reallycomfortable asking for very large sums of
money.
And, you know, as time went on,
How how is that journey?
Like, I I remember as a coach when I first,asked a client for a $1000.
I'm like, oh, jeez.
I hope he hasn't shut me down.
And I know.
But when you get that first, yes, it's like, ohmy gosh.
This could actually work.

(08:47):
I don't know.
I know.
Yeah.
No.
I think you see the world through the lens,right, of how you what you've seen.
That's why it's a that's why representationreally matters Andrew giving people
opportunities to see things other than how theygrow up.
Because if you've only if if in your world, Ahundred bucks is a lot of money, and it's and

(09:11):
it is a lot of money.
So I'm not poo pooing it.
But if that's where the the ceiling is for you,then to ask for a 1000 is like, woah.
You know, if your world's a 1000 is you know,about where you're comfortable with, then
asking for 5000 or 10000 is a bit.
So but I but I think it's important for peopleto realize that money it's a money is a is is

(09:39):
sort of its energy.
It is it's not really the money is printed onpaper.
So it's really more the value.
What is the value to the person with whomyou're speaking to and what you're offering
Andrew being able to get past the idea of, oh,it's a 1000.
It's kind of like, you know, women there's,like, they we have outfits.

(10:00):
Then they'd and all these designers make allthese clothes, and they'll say, oh, this is a
size 6, and this is a size 10.
So you wanna feel like, okay.
Well, I wanna wear a size 6 because societysays that.
But if different designers have differentmeasurements for different sizes.
And you feel like, oh, wait.
I wanna wear size 6, but this actually fits me.
And and size 8 is better.

(10:22):
It's the same thing with money.
It's it's not really a thing.
A clothing size is not really a thing.
It's more, you know, money really isn't athing.
Unless you are tied to the number.
But if you tie what you're doing to the value,the value to of the parts of the value, not the
value that you hold, but the value that theperson you're having the conversation around,

(10:45):
it's easier to get past the, oh, I'm asking fora $1,000,000 or I'm asking for $100.
It becomes a little bit more, elastic So you sothat's why I started with.
You have to believe in the thing that you areoffering.
Because if you don't think it's valuable, thenthere's no way you can form your lips to say,

(11:08):
you know, give me $2,000,000 to to supportthis.
But if you believe in it, Andrew you know andif in a product case, if you really believe in
what it is that you're offering and you knowthat if you that person were to get it, it
would really impact their lives.
It also takes you out of the the selfishness.
We're really very self centered in in manyways.

(11:30):
And so we're always thinking Oh, they'rerejecting me or, oh, I'm gonna look like an
idiot for opening my mouth to ask for thatamount.
But if you can put yourself in the posture of Icare about this person that's across the table
from me or really the person better to sit inthat you're sitting next to or whatever.
And you know that their needs would be servedby this thing that you are offering, it would

(11:57):
be self selfish to not offer it.
Right?
It's it's a different mindset where you'relike, oh, I'm gonna be scared for saying for
asking that amount or pricing in that amount oror I'm gonna be rejected from it.
And, you know, obviously, if you're doing ifyour business is in, you know, a SAS company,
so you don't actually see the person, but stillYou know the value that you're gonna be

(12:19):
offering to the customer.
So it's easier to to ask.
And that's really what I that's how I was ableto get past it.
Was really the idea of sitting down andwatching how people would be like, yeah.
You know, definitely, we're gonna give we'regonna donate this amount of money Andrew we're
gonna definitely give an opportunity for ourstaff to be able to donate.

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And the more and more I was able to ask forlarger and larger amounts, the more I was
promoted.
And then the more I was then the then by thetime, you know, I was really comfortable the
memorial came about Andrew know, we had largeramounts to ask for.
Oh, that's so cool.
And, I'm curious too.
So, obviously, a $120,000,000 is is a lot ofmoney Andrew, obviously, so it sounds like my

(13:04):
guess is if you're in DC, companies they wannafind the right organization to give money to
any way.
Like, so you're you're not asking them to pullquote, unquote, out of their own pocket.
Like, this is money that they're gonna choosebetween either Euro Memorial or another project
to give money to.
Right?
Is is that kinda how that works?
Right.
Right.

(13:24):
So, when it comes to charitable giving forcorporations, there is sort of a a practice
called corporate social responsibility.
Andrew so, you know, something to think aboutwhen one if your if your audience is
entrepreneurial, they're building theirbusiness.
They need to be thinking about what their CSRpolicy is going to be.
You can't just exist the world.

(13:46):
For?
Corporate social responsibility.
Ah, okay.
Right.
So if, you know, if you're building a business,you know, there you should have some thought
process as you scale and grow as to What doeswhat what do we believe in here at this company
Andrew what's causes will we be supporting?
Andrew that is sometimes aligned with theproduct that you that you that you sell.

(14:09):
It's sometimes aligned with the types ofcustomers that buy from you.
So for instance, You know, you've got, say,tablets, clothing store.
Right?
I don't know if you're not familiar withtablets.
It's primarily geared towards, you know, moremiddle aged, women.
But it's it's women.
And so they they support causes that women areinterested, that wouldn't be more interested

(14:34):
in.
I think if you have, you know, like Dove, adove is a really strong prime example.
Dove, so They primarily work on causes to, thatsupport women's well-being and feeling
beautiful and in their in their selves.
Okay.
We look at something like there's this greatcompany out there that sells engines, and they

(14:56):
support I know it's they have this great video,YouTube channel, everything, and they support,
no, they're no, they actually are an insurancecompany for, cars that are like higher, you
know, engines, whatever, and they do a wholething around racing and those kinds of things.
So Most companies will have a CSR, componentthat where they are supporting causes in their

(15:20):
communities that will that will represent theircustomer base, their employee base, or what
they are, and so forth.
So, yes, the answer to answer your question ismost companies do give out a large sum of money
and the larger they are, the more they give.
Andrew, of course, there can be some cynicism.
You know, people will talk be cynical and well,you know, they're only giving a little bit

(15:41):
compared to, like, okay.
Fine.
Yes.
That's a different conversation.
But The companies that are giving a lot ofmoney out there are are making impacts.
So to answer your question, yes.
If you're doing corporate fundraising, they aretaking money out of a bucket that they would
normally be giving.
However, there's this type of a project meaningsort of like a it's called it's more capital

(16:05):
campaign, something that's not a cause that isdirectly related to human to, like, you know,
say, It's a building.
It's a it's it's a structure.
It's a memorial.
So that's a little bit different than giving tothe dress for success charity, for instance,
right, because that's a different conversation.

(16:25):
So those kinds of fundraising efforts are waymore complicated because difficult to say, how
is a memorial helping?
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Mhmm.
So It's a different if it's a different kind ofan ask, it's a different kind of a
conversation.
It takes way more cultivation of a donor to getthat.

(16:47):
And I think that's probably the same forbusinesses that have a product.
It's a little bit less necessary Right?
So, of course, if you are selling diapers to toparents, that's an easier product to sell than
if you were selling some, you know, highpollutants, I don't know, brain activity, thing

(17:11):
to stimulate children to think in the womb.
Right?
It's a different cell.
So it's it's kind of like the vitamin versusthe the pain killer kind of a a cell.
So when you're talk when you start sellingthings that are more vitamin y versus
painkiller y, You wanna be thinking about howyou how you're conversing, how you're talking

(17:35):
about it, how you're messaging it.
And frankly, I find that those are longer salescycles.
No.
I I like that the the phrasing of things is butbut I'd say with a a good sales model, you
should be able to turn your product into a painkiller no matter what product it is.
Like, like, it shouldn't just be a vitamin.
Like, if you're not taking these vitamins, youcould lose your you could decrease your

(17:59):
lifespan by 10 years or something like that.
Yeah.
Andrew so that's a good point too because Ithink it's a practice.
So as entrepreneurs, so when you're sellingmemorial, like you said, like, you had to find
the, why should they donate to the memorials ofother things?
So how did you phrase it in a way that they go,oh, take my money.
Definitely.
Like, I feel like if I was a salesperson, I'dgo, every other company in DC is donating to

(18:21):
this memorial, you don't, you're gonna lookbad, but I'm curious, but wait.
Well, there was a lot of that kind ofconversation.
And this was, I mean, obviously, this was a,Andrew international projects.
So it wasn't just DC Companies, and it wasn'tjust companies.
It was very, you know, wealthy individuals aswell as foundations.
However, you know, one of the funniest thingwas I and I and I won't put the name, but there

(18:41):
was a health care company that was, that gaveus I was like, we look pretty good, hefty
chunk.
I think maybe about a half a 1,000,000.
And That was the biggest thing.
Was what was that?
What was the biggest donation out of the120,000,000?
Oh,
10.
We we had 10,000,000 from GM.
Nice.
Okay.

(19:01):
Very cool.
So, so, yeah, so this this company, you know,should be told they had already agreed to, to
give the gift.
So that's also to some some elements there.
There's some agreement there, but they stillneed to walk through the process.
So I my my team had to fill out the, the grantWeiss, even though there was some verbal
agreements there, but one of the questionswere, they're big.

(19:24):
This is an example.
Their big cause was they supported childrenthat suffered from spina bifida, which is a
very I mean, it's it's a it's a it's a realhard disease for children to, to experience.
And that was their big thing that they did alot of work around that and providing and
supporting children.

(19:45):
So one of the questions that they asked in thegrant was how does building the memorial help
and support children with spina bifida?
I mean, I remember thinking, really?
So let's bring my fundraising sales y, youknow, Yeah.
Sit here to play.
You know?
And, you know, one of the things that I said,man, it wasn't me being, you know, geeky or or

(20:08):
disingenuous.
I said, you know, look, Doctor King had, thisamazing capacity to do things even within the
realms of his own challenges.
Andrew yet.
And and so, you know, here it is that ifsomeone who from a child who has spina bifida
is able to go to the memorial, learn the story,see this, Andrew they're like, well, if doctor

(20:30):
King could do this, I can do it too.
Right?
So it is it it is a way of being able to thinkabout an I did that, and I said that not not
being at all disingenuous.
I really believe that.
And, you know, I had my team create that andwrite that.
Andrew obviously, we were gonna get the gift,I'd Weiss assume, you know, anyway, but it was
something that was truthful.

(20:51):
When you're thinking about your product, youstart talking, you know, Andrew, about the idea
of vitamin versus painkiller.
If you don't believe it, and that goes back.
If you don't believe what you're selling, justdon't sell it because if but you if you can
really believe it and see this is how it'sgonna serve people, you would be surprised at
how you can begin to see how it can be, youknow, a painkiller because you believe that to

(21:16):
be true.
No.
I I love that.
And, and I love the the passion you bring to anenthusiasm you bring to have people believe in
their products So what is, I guess, we can talklike a logistical and an an, like, I guess
emotional or, just like, a spiritual hype thatyou would give to someone if you what what do
you tell business owners to have?

(21:37):
Help them believe in their products more, Iguess, is the question I wanna get
Well, that there is an internal game, Andrew.
You know, I get it.
Look, you know, a company is created for thepurpose of generating value.
Value to all of the stakeholders, the owners,the investors, the customers, the employees.

(21:59):
Right?
We get that.
And then sort of perceived value, and thenthere's real value.
So that's the purpose of, of a of a company.
At the same time, though, so I'm not sayingthat, you know, if if there's a need out there
and you have it, you know, I remember there's,god, there's a there's a a sort of business

(22:22):
gurus out there.
And I heard him say, you know what business is?
This is going to a cuss going to someone askingthem what they need, going and getting it, and
then giving it to them.
I like that.
Yeah.
It's not that complicated.
Right?
So I recognize that there might be some thingsthat you so if you're, say, for instance,

(22:45):
you're in the business of you know, I'venoticed a lot of folks will start their
entrepreneurial journey by, say, doing, avending machine, for instance.
Okay?
And What do you have in the vending machine?
You know, if you're not gonna be, like, one ofthose fancy vending machines where you're,
like, you know, selling, like, you know,champagne or whatever, They Yeah.
Pretty fancy.

(23:06):
Apparently, they exist.
I'm like, if you're just gonna have, like, youknow, Cheetos and Doritos and whatever,
whatever.
So you're like, well, how can I get how can Ibelieve in my product for the for the the
chips?
I mean, it's just everyone gets can buy Cheetosanywhere.
Well, the question on the table is, who are youserving?
Because oftentimes, I know, like, whenever I amgetting something out of a vending machine,

(23:29):
it's usually because I'm You know, you know,you know, your your college kid and your, you
know, you had your class and whatever at at,you know, 7 o'clock at night.
You didn't get a chance to eat.
Andrew you're gonna, like, you know, you'reyou're growling and you need something to just
tide you over for the class until you head backto the dorms or something.
Right?
Well, you know, if you're if you're a vendingmachine and there's, like, water in there or

(23:50):
soda, you you might be, you know, coming fromthe gin, if vending machines in the gin, where
you can sort of get your little water bottleand call it a day Okay.
Maybe you don't believe in the product, but youbelieve in the people that you are servicing
and giving them some conveniences.
That's what I'm saying is it's an internalgame.
I can't help you if you don't believe in yourproduct, but at the same time, I can't help you

(24:10):
begin to think about how you are servicing themand and and in a way that gets you excited
about it.
And And so once you kind of are there, then youkinda think, okay.
Now that I know what it is that makes mepassionate about, and it could be just the
passion of doing business.
Right?

(24:31):
I'm an entrepreneur through and through.
I love just doing business, and there arepeople who just, you know, they don't really
care what the product per se but they lovebeing an entrepreneur.
That's what they love.
Well, being an entrepreneur is, you know, findthe best way to provide the best product at,
you know, whatever the best price is that'sbasic for your for your for your, for your

(24:52):
market Andrew doing in a way it's efficient anddoing in a way that allows you to scale, Andrew
that's exciting.
Whatever it is that gets you excited about it,it allows for you to then show up at a higher
standard because that's in the end what you'retrying to do.
It's showing up at a higher standard andeverything that you're doing, whether it's your

(25:12):
sales, or whether it's how you're leading, howyou're being a strategic, planner in your
business, how you're leading as a as a CEO,leading your team, selecting, well, it's just
getting you enough passion that gets you toshow up at a higher standard.
I love that.
I love that.
Just like, simplifying what business isunderstanding that it's okay to like business

(25:33):
for the sake of liking business too.
I I like that perspective on things.
And And and your speakers sheet too or youryour 1 your 1 sheet, you talk about preventing
chaos in businesses.
So so tell us more, like, once a business, sothat they offer, knows who they serve, why they
serve it, they like doing it.
But then the chaos comes in, how do you preventchaos for businesses?

(25:55):
Yeah.
I tell you.
I often say that sometimes running a businesscan feel like you're trying
to manage this chaotic tornado.
Right?
And it's
like, how do we manage you know, you've gotcash flow coming here, you know, payroll over
here.
You've got, you know, inventory.
So there's a lot of different things that cancome across.
Now the thing about, thing about business isthat you are really operating, you know, a true

(26:23):
leader is a problem solver.
There are things that are come out Andrew andand then you need to manage that.
Okay?
And different stages of
business present different problems.
Andrew those are normal, normal problems.
If you are an early stage, it is all about thecash.
It is all about trying to grow somehowsomewhere.

(26:46):
But as you get earlier, you know, you get olderand you you begin to grow and get in different
stages of your business, there are otherproblems.
There are also normal problems.
Okay?
But then there are abnormal problems.
Those problems are the problems that are gonnaeat you a lot, and it's going to bring you down
the business down.

(27:07):
One of the main ones so there's 4 that I findare sort of I call them symptoms of chaos,
right, because people are like, oh, no.
That's the chaos.
No.
No.
No.
That's the symptom.
There's a bigger issue underlying this.
So the the 4 big ones that I have found is cashflow, cash flow, cash flow, running out of
cash, too much negative cash flow is notworking.
Right?

(27:27):
Andrew this Andrew, you'd be so surprised whenpeople are just like, oh, yeah.
You know, I've been having this cash flowproblem.
Since I started the business.
Really?
That is not okay.
It is the number one reason why business failsbecause they run out of cash.
Yeah.
80% of businesses that fail fail because theywanted to cash.
So what
what what what other reasons do they fail?

(27:48):
Just think lawsuits are like I feel like if youhave cash, it's hard to fail as a business.
Well, the second one, one of the second ones isthat it's a it's it's a product market fit
issue.
Right?
The product, they they cannot grow.
They cannot scale because the product might begood for this amount, but it can't go this big.

(28:12):
So now you're stuck with a small you can't growyou may have a lot of cash coming in, but you
can't grow because you're stuck at a certainlevel of number of customers that you can sell
to because it was just So small.
Interesting.
Andrew that's the lesson.
The second reason.
The third one is you can't build a team, a verygood team.

(28:32):
There's something wrong with your team.
Either you're What I found is that it's reallybecause people started early days.
They built a team because it was a hodgepodgeything, which is fine.
Again, that's a normal problem for an earlydays.
But if you're not early in the game, beginningto say, okay.
Looking at this business and figuring out Whatare the roles that need to actually happen to

(28:54):
build this business?
Who needs to what type of skill set needs to bein that particular business?
What kind of person needs to be in that chairand hiring them accordingly?
In the end, I can tell you.
I I have been brought into business.
It's been a while.
I've been in for a while.
Of course, you know, because you have anemployee that's been there for a while.
You got loyalty stuff happening.

(29:15):
You do not wanna let them go.
But it is wreaking havoc in the company causingall kinds of pain and creating toxic
environments That is a huge the 3rd reason whybusinesses fail because of a team problem.
And you know, the 4th one is burnout, They'rewearing way too many hats.

(29:35):
They they can't walk away from the businesswithout feeling like it's gonna implode and
then burn out.
That's the 4th reason.
Wow.
Andrew so cash flow, product market fit, team,burnout.
So one of the first ways to helping identifyingprevention the chaos is recognizing what's
holding your team back the most.
Sounds like.
Exactly.

(29:56):
Exactly.
Yeah.
If you're feeling like if those things poppingup and they're persistent.
Again, you know, okay.
Fine.
You know, you've got a situation where, youknow, you know, you you can't delegate
comfortably, but you figured a way to fix it.
That's a normal problem.
But if you're persistently unable to get yourteam to to to function.
If you're consistently having toxic situation,if you're consistently unable to move things

(30:21):
forward, then that's like a problem.
You need to pay attention to it.
So it's about it's it's persistence.
It's it's how grave is the problem.
And, you know, okay.
Maybe you might have, you know, missed thebill.
You know, maybe you had reach out to one ofyour vendors this month and say, hey.
Can we push the bill back this month?
Because, you know, cash flow is a bit weird.
I'm gonna have a a new shipment in or a newparticular, client that's gonna be coming in.

(30:44):
That's a different conversation than everysingle month.
You're like on pins and needles and can't hitpayroll.
So I think it's really important once you beginto see these things creeping over into problems
that are persistent in the business, then onemust stop and begin to assess what the
underlying problem is because those, again, arethe symptoms because for instance, you may have

(31:08):
a cash flow problem, Andrew, and you think,well, it's a sales problem.
Everyone assumes, oh, I sell more.
Okay?
Because, well, that's the logical connection.
Well, what it might be that the business modelthat you have built your company on doesn't
work or cannot work for what it is you need itto do right now.

(31:29):
So it's a it's more along the lines of saying,I've got this problem.
I can assume it might be a sales problem, butwhat else could it be?
Yeah.
What else could it be?
And then you keep asking the question, whatelse could it be?
Until you begin to do some work around and and,you know, take, you know, do one step at a
time.
You can't do a whole big chunk if all thethings are red, you know, red, red, red, red,

(31:52):
red, just Close your eyes and focus on 1because you just can't focus on them all.
But in the end, you're trying to get to thecore, core problem and be able to then fix
that.
Not hit it at the top because you'll spendmoney and time trying to hit at the top, and it
actually not not be the same.
No.
I I love that advice about things.

(32:14):
And I'm curious too.
So, you used myself as an example, what'sanother client example you worked with where
you're proud of taking them from a to z wherethey're having cash flow problems or, like,
carry in and help us.
Like, tell us like a case study and one of yourfavorite things.
I know.
I I'm happy to do that.
I love to brag on my client.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, because you develop a great deal ofof connection with them.

(32:37):
So, you know, I had a client.
She's, actually, you know, we talked aboutSpain His company is, based out of Spain, but
she has offices in, in Latin America, in otherparts of Europe, and in the continent of
Africa.
So this is a a gaming company.
They and so it's regulated.
Right?
So, you know, I I think it's really to thinkabout, like, you can't really when when you

(33:00):
have a situation where you have employees inall parts of the world, it's really very common
for there to be a disconnect, right, and asituation where you have low morale So that was
one problem.
The other problem was they were a regulatedcompany, and so they were having a difficult
time during the, you know, the COVID the Andrewaround making sure that revenue stayed up

(33:25):
because they had some problems there.
And so when she started coming back, I mean,I'll never forget this.
She was sitting, you know, after the sort ofthe state home orders, she was like, Carrie
Ann, I'm going to have to close.
Like, you know, it's it was that serious, andthere was tears coming on her eyes.
And I mean, there was so many tears during theearly stages of it.
I mean, I'm sure you probably had a great dealof your friends and, you know, just the tears.

(33:49):
And, and and so just I'm going to have toclose.
And, and my team, you know, is is I don't knowhow I'm gonna be able to to to break that to
them because she has a numb she had a number ofteam, members.
And with was like, okay.
We can sit here and cry about it for a second,and and that's perfectly fine.

(34:09):
We're gonna do that.
Yeah.
Let it out.
Let it out.
Yeah.
And
then I was like, so what we're gonna do.
What we're not gonna do is what we're not gonnado is let this thing go down.
Right?
And Andrew think one of the things that we didwas first do a full on strategic plan of the
business.
Take a look and see, okay, what are theproducts that working, which ones are

(34:31):
regulated, which ones can we not do, which onescan we do, which ones are are are pervoting the
most amount of of product of profit.
Okay?
Andrew from there, being able to say, okay.
Fine.
Here's this part here, what you can't do.
So Let's not cry over it anymore.
It's a done thing.
Okay?
But which ways can you begin to implement intoyour company?

(34:53):
What other products can you add?
What other ways can you be able to expand thatparticular product or even where there's some
needs of some of your customers that you neverreally pay attention to?
That now you can, you know, to address now.
And so I think from there, we began to kind offigure out strategically what that looks like.
And then around the team, it was really, Imean, it was a lot of work around building the

(35:19):
team, giving them some autonomy, giving themsome responsibility, giving them what they
needed at the time.
I mean, you know, even just, you know, orderinglunch and sending them to sending them to her
home, sending her lunch to their homes on aregular basis, you know, just to get them
realizing that we're all in this together.
There's some things that we can do that, youknow, and she's and as she works through this,

(35:43):
over the year, not only not only was she ableto, you know, not hit huge markers in, I mean,
huge revenue markers.
She sticks.
She stuck around when many in her industrybegan to follow to go away.
There are business that are no longer around inthat industry that she still is.

(36:05):
3rd, she was able to be voted best company towork for I know.
Right?
She was gonna What?
That company down, Andrew.
Oh my god.
To work
for in her industry in her country.
Andrew, also, one of the things that she alwayswanted to do was to be able to have a, a bonus,
program where it was based on their their,their performances and based on company

(36:28):
performances.
And she was able to implement that in from thenon, I cannot tell you.
Like, it's just it's now just expanding into 3other countries.
I mean, it's just beautiful.
To watch.
It's beautiful to watch.
So I'm saying there's a way to do it.
And even more at the bottom, bottom, bottom,bottom, bottom, you can get it back up.
Well, the fact that, yeah, she she's a woman intech too Andrew dominating the space, like,

(36:53):
that's awesome.
Like, good for her.
And so what what about, like, the because it'salways the same too, like, the with the the
cobblers kids have no shoes.
And I know, it's so curious, like, so tell usmore about, the, really quick, the the growth
of your company and your journey too.
They do currently have employees Andrew telltell us more about, your, how your company's

(37:15):
truck
Yeah.
Well, you know, I I will say it's been really afun journey.
You know, and again, I think if your audienceis the anyone your audience is listening Andrew
they're in the stages of of growing theirbusiness or starting.
I think the the the one lesson I would sayaround growing a business is recognizing
there's various iterations of it.

(37:36):
You know, so I went I went full time full timein 2014.
Andrew was primarily focusing on consultingwith very large NGOs, which, you know, makes
sense because of you know, my background andthe and and also my connections.
Let's just be frank.
And I did that, and and I had some really greatopportunities and great, and business started

(37:57):
growing real fast in that in that iteration.
So I started really bringing on team.
But that's when I really, really was like,well, this version of this business is not
exactly what I want.
1, because it was very similar to the thingsthat I had been able to do in the business
prior when I was, you know, early days Andrewalso because I really found myself inching more

(38:20):
towards working with so, you know, I would beworking primarily with board, like, boards of
directors and you know, developing strategic.
Now strategy is always my thing.
So I'm always gonna do it, and that's what I dowith businesses now.
But I really found myself really leaning moretowards working directly with the CEOs and
really sort of finding out, like, ways that youknow, strengthen the team, look at sort of the

(38:45):
things that are happening in the business as away to be able to make it work.
So, anyway, I still did did I did that for abit But then I was slowly getting into, like,
people were beginning to reach out to me like,hey, Carrie Ann, you know, got this, business
that I'm doing.
And I know you do strategy.
You know, can you do the thing?
And like, yeah, come on.
You know, whatever.
So I sort of had this mixture of differentclients.

(39:06):
I'm like, yeah.
And then and then I was like, beginning, Irealized, well, I prefer this than this.
So I pivoted.
And that's, I think, the joy of of early daysof your business where you can pivot.
You can move.
You can decide how you wanna do it.
Andrew then I began realizing that, because I,at first, I was doing a a bit more of, like,

(39:26):
the coaching versus, like, so I do more of a ofcoaching and strategy than more than strategy.
And I realized, yeah, I'm really good atcoaching, and I can do that.
And, obviously, everything in life is coaching,frankly, to be honest, But at the same time, I
really like to work with companies that arebuilding something to last, and they really
just want strategy work.
And obviously, you know, have a have a trustedadvisor.

(39:48):
So that was kind of how we how I pivoted.
And then from there, began saying, okay.
If that's what I'm gonna be building, then whatkind of team do I need to build to make that
business work Andrew also how do I make surethat it can scale?
Because in the end, you know, I don't you know,if growing and growing.
That's great and fantastic, but that just meansthat it's more more expensive and more me.

(40:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's like not fun.
Right?
So then, you know, how can I make it scale?
How can I do that?
And I think in the end was really, like, youknow, bringing other business strategist to
work along and sort of be a bench and, findways that we can do it.
And so it's really and really distilling downthe actual product, making sure that it is, you

(40:32):
know, these are the products that we serve.
Not all these willy nilly things and, you know,all, you know, bringing it So I think that that
was kind of the the growing pains for mebecause I remember, I mean, because, you know,
I remember my first big, big, huge client.
I was like, yeah, bring it on.
And I thought that I had really I thought thatI had staffed up well.

(40:52):
I thought that I I was like, Bring it on.
Yeah.
You're re that you're ready.
Yeah.
Oh my god, Andrew.
Such a huge failure.
I mean, you know, by the eagles, it's like a 1it was a 1 year engaged man Andrew literally by
the time I'm sitting in the end, nobody likesto have a come to Jesus meeting when you're the
one being come to Jesus.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.

(41:13):
And it was that moment when I was just like,I'm never going to be sitting here again, but
it did help me realize that I needed to changethe the the business model the way I was doing
it.
I did know that's and that's one of theproblems with scaling as you grow.
One of the biggest things is just scaling toofast.
And I realized that I had scaled too fast inthat case, and I just couldn't fulfill the

(41:37):
client.
I just couldn't fulfill.
And so You have
to give a refund?
Or how how does that work when you're workingwith the big corporation like that?
So the way the contract was structured I wasable to fulfill the basics of the contract.
So it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't likeawful.
So I was able to fulfill the basics of thecontract but the things that there was some I

(41:59):
think that in Andrew it seems like maybeoverpromising on some level.
And, so the things that we thought we weregoing to be there was like a sort of a a
commission based, elements to it as well.
So I think, so that didn't play out well.
But, you know, when you start talking to aclient, it's not just about did you deliver.

(42:20):
It's also your reputation.
It's also the disappointment to the client whowas really you know, who had to go to bat to
to to
convince his partners to do it.
So it's it's very much more of just that.
So Again, look, this happens a lot.
You know, you over you scale.
You you scale too fast and then you can't can'tdeliver.
My and that's one of the things that I alwaysteach is like, okay.

(42:43):
Scaling growth is really important, but thereare some fundamental things that need to happen
in the business before you could take on thebig, big clients.
Right?
So, like, for instance, one of my clients rightnow or what actually we were discussing being a
client, but she has this great, like, pet foodthing.
It's it's just awesome.

(43:03):
Like, the product is fantastic.
It's one of the major retailers out there,which you would know, is thinking about wants
to bring them wants to bring the product inhouse and wants to bring the product to sell it
in their stores.
And so, you know, obviously, it's a greatproduct people are buying it direct from direct
from the company.
And so, yeah, you know, it would really dowell, and the branding is very much similar to

(43:28):
how the style of that particular retailer is.
So it was just sort of like a no brainer, butbased on face value.
But then, you know, she came to me.
She's like, I'm I'm a bit concerned.
Can we can we take a look at this?
You begin to start seeing Weiss she has 4suppliers, one based in China, another one
based another part of the war or country.
And then 2 local, the the timeline for gettingthe products to where she needs to be to have

(43:54):
the person who assembles it, put it together,and then plus how much money she would need to
be up fronting okay, to be able to get the fullproducts and then get them to the retailer, it
was almost a nightmare.
It would have been it would have been anightmare had she you know, sign a contract at
that time.
Now there's some ways to fix it, right, bringsome of the products from China over here,

(44:18):
maybe maybe purchase more products from Chinaand then have them stored in a storehouse in
the US.
But then that means upfront cost.
Do you have the cushion in your business to dothat?
Okay.
If you don't have the cushion to do that inyour business, then you're kind of you're it's
a huge risk, which, again, might be a risk thatyou're willing to take.

(44:40):
You just need to assess it and know that thatrisk exists.
So they're that's weird.
The conversation's like, yeah.
He's like, oh, I'm gonna have a great bigclient.
I'm so excited.
He's gonna be a lot of cash Andrew there'sgreat opportunity.
But in the end, you know, can your companyhandle more of the fulfillment, more of the
products that you're gonna need to bring in,the cash flow to make this a really good

(45:05):
opportunity.
And you don't wanna have a conversation like mycome to Jesus conversation.
Yeah.
No.
Well, and it's and it's good that, I mean, theysay failure is the best teacher.
And so it it's like and sometimes it takesbeing there to know, okay.
Oh, I know not to do this again.
So
doing that.
Yeah.
You're absolutely

(45:26):
And the fact that you're still able to stay inbusiness after that, like, it's it's good that
you didn't get bankrupted and tarnished and,dragged through the mud because of that.
And, like, you say you still delivered,probably was it we wanted to, but the fact you
still did your part where you could.
So, but I think it's a good learning lesson.
And I
think too, you know, Andrew, you you need to,like, You know, in particularly early days, we

(45:48):
we connect our worth very much to ourbusinesses.
Yeah.
And I just That would be one lesson that Ithink I had to kinda come back away from is
recognizing that my business is an entityoutside of myself.
Mhmm.
Andrew I I felt a lot of I'll be frank, I felta lot of shame when that happened because, you

(46:08):
know, I'm a high achiever and I spent a lot ofmy life connecting to my high achievements.
And when that kinda didn't happen, I was justlike, you know, like, You know, can I really
build a business that's gonna last?
Maybe I'm maybe like a one hit wonder.
I don't know.
And so I just I think it's important to It'svery difficult, but it's important to

(46:30):
disconnect and recognize that some of yourbiggest heroes in business have done have made
some huge blocks.
Yeah.
Big failures.
Andrew so don't carry that shame around.
Use it to learn.
Use it to say, okay.
This is what we need to be putting in thebusiness to make it work so that doesn't happen

(46:53):
again, but not caring the shame or the feelingsof somehow I'm not cut out for this or who who
was I to go for that big contract, blah blahblah.
Yeah.
You needed to go for that big conference so youcould learn.
Yeah.
Well, I I love this.
Yeah.
So tell us more, like, how how did you learnhow to disassociate your self worth from your
business?
Because I agree it's a lot of people tie theirlives to their business.

(47:16):
And then, like, they think they have to go handin hand.
And I guess sometimes they do sometimes theydon't.
So tell tell us more how you were able to, Iguess
It was really big because I I mean, I foundmyself not not pitching anymore, right, or
pitching small, Andrew I lost I lost my comp.
I caught my confidence.
I lost my footing.

(47:36):
This was you said year 2 or year 3 of yourbusinesses.
Weiss.
It was year 2.
It was year 2.
2016 2 years after your business?
Okay.
Mhmm.
And I saw so so, yeah, it was I definitely feltBut then when you start looking at the numbers,
I literally I I had to have my own come toJesus conversation and looked in the mirror and
said, So what then?

(47:58):
We're just gonna do this hobby then.
You know?
Like Yeah.
When you when you back up, you say, do youwanna do this or not?
Is that your plan or not?
And I had to say, okay.
Yes.
I'm in it.
So then what does that mean to be in it?
What does it really mean?
It means I have to get past this feeling ofshame and guilt, and I'm not good enough for

(48:22):
You know, I'm never gonna scale.
I'm gonna always be small potatoes or whateverthe feelings that were going on there.
And then, you know, take myself up a bit andkeep moving because entrepreneurship is a bit
of a lonely game.
Yeah.
You have you can have friends or entrepreneursAndrew they, you know, you know, you could kind

(48:42):
of pitch and catch and be like, oh, yeah.
I'm doing this.
But when when you're in it, It's you.
And
Well, it's, it's what people sign up for.
I think I think the classic joke is, you work80 hours a week for yourself so that you don't
have to work 40 hours a week for someone else.

(49:04):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I think, you know, It's thejourney of it because at there's a tipping
point.
You're you're doing the things Andrew you'redoing the the right things.
To the point where at some point, the magichappens and the build Andrew you've built a
business that doesn't require you to be in it.
But early days, you are in it, and it'sdifficult to you're you're facing your demons,

(49:29):
really, at some point.
You're facing the the the dark places of thesoul as they say that says, okay, am I in this?
Do I really am gonna do this?
Or am I not?
Yeah.
And and so but when you finally decide aminute, you get the you you say, okay.
What what will I have to do to be able to dothis?

(49:51):
And that would require you to to disconnect myI'm not saying that I'm completely a robot.
I'm just doing it, but I think I begin to seemyself a bit more.
It goes back to the selfishness.
I was really looking at myself, that selfcenteredness.
I was looking at myself as my business.

(50:12):
Whereas I am the caretaker of an entity thatcreates value for my customers.
Yeah.
So I might I might do a thing.
I might try a new tech tactic in the businessname.
It's not gonna work.
It didn't work.
You know, I'll try that.
And fine.
I don't have any emotional attachment to it.
We tried it.
We did it.
Doesn't work.
We can't move on.
Right?

(50:32):
Yeah.
Cause your team doesn't have time for you to besitting here at all, naval gazing and Andrew
problem solving, you know, like just looking atthings, you gotta decide and move on, decide
and move on, decide.
And when you when when you have this feeling ofit's my baby, then you have it's difficult to
to decide.
Decision, if you're lagging around in decision,like, If taking if making a decision, your

(50:56):
business takes a long time, you're you'relooking at the wrong thing.
It's it's you're being a bit self seltzer,probably.
Yeah.
No.
I like what you said too.
Like, the the kind of another way to say, like,the point of no return.
It's just like deciding, like, No.
I'm not letting things hold me back anymore.
And I'm making this work because you know youryour services are valuable.
They help people Andrew you believe inyourself.

(51:17):
You believe in what you have to offer.
Andrew so failure is not an option.
And so, of course, you might have to pivot
from the boats.
Yes.
Exactly.
And so I It's a good from the reminder outthere for those listening, just, like, keep
going.
Like, it it has to work out.
You'll make it work.
There are people that support you.
I know you said entrepreneurship is lonely,but, it goes back to, yeah, like, I it's true,

(51:40):
but there's also other groups who feel the sameway.
And so just like, I'm sure being an alcoholiccan can feel only too, but that's what the
alcoholics anonymous is for.
Right.
Exactly.
Unpreduers anonymous.
So I definitely get you there.
I know I've been talking for a while, so Iwanna wrap up with a few more questions here.
Yeah.
So tell us more since I think this is kind ofadvertising quickly.

(52:01):
What are the nonnegotiable actions, to besuccessful as an entrepreneur in your opinion?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a good question, Andrew.
And it's kind of interesting.
How that has evolved for me as I have done thework and worked with many, many, many different
types of businesses.
One thing is there are a lot of things that youcan delegate in your business, but one of the

(52:22):
things you can't delegate is you're thestrategic leader of your business.
So being the visionary means understanding thewhere you wanna take this business, early, you
know, you know, I I love, like, 2020 years out.
What is that?
What does the vision look like?
Andrew you're the person who needs to cast thatvision for yourself is just you and, you know,

(52:47):
you and your dog or the employees, or if it'syou and you've got a team of 50 or you've got a
team of whatever, it it is you no one else canbe that vision caster but you Andrew the leader
of strategy, but you.
You also have the full on responsibility ofmaking sure that this company, this entity
outside of yourself, which is designed tocreate value for all the stakeholders can

(53:11):
generate the resources that it's supposed tobe.
Period and done.
You know, there are lots of things that abusiness leader must do in the business.
One of which is making sure that you are eithercreating the environment.
Providing the tools, bringing in the profit,the people that are supposed to be there to
help you build it, hiring the right people,casting the vision, being a good leader, those

(53:35):
are the things that you must do in order tomake sure that the entity that we are calling
your business is providing is generating therevenue that needs to generate and whatever
that the value is.
So those are two things that are nonnegotiable.
You know, you can decide if you wanna be whattype of leader you want to be.
That's fine.
Your style or everyone has a different style ofleadership.

(53:57):
It actually shows, I think, it was some studythat I read that flamboyant leaders that we
always think about as sort of being, like, youknow, the the celebrity, CEOs.
They're actually not the ones that actuallymake things work.
Like, they're not actually the ones that havethe most successful companies.
So whatever style, if you're an introvert andyou're a leader that has a different style, it

(54:18):
doesn't really matter to style.
Then what matters is making sure that howeverit is you're getting to being the vision
caster, being the strategic driver in thebusiness, making sure that you are responsible
for making sure that the revenue is coming in,whatever that looks like.
Those are things that you cannot cannot missed.
So when you think about your time in thebusiness, when you think about your time, what

(54:42):
you're spending your time doing, if it's notthose 2 things, If you're not spending most of
your time doing those two things that I don'tknow what to tell you, you know, because you're
not gonna get where you wanna get there.
No.
I I love it, and I was so well said.
And for those named Carrie Ann's also a speakerin case he didn't know.
So, definitely grant her her speaker knowledgeand just overall knowledge and so many golden

(55:05):
nuggets of wisdoms been so incredible.
So as we get to the end of the interview here,so tell us, Carrie Ann, you mentioned you
wanted to promote a, one sheet to the audience?
Yeah.
Well, you know, if some if one of your audiencemembers are are listening, and they're like, oh
my gosh.
He's tough stepping on my toes.
I'm feeling the chaos there, then I I I createda a 1 a PDF that I just sort of brain dumped

(55:31):
the things that I have found to be the truecauses of chaos in businesses.
And so I found there's 8 A true causes that arecausing chaos Andrew primarily around small and
medium sized businesses.
So the a true, culprits that are causing chaosin your this.
And it provides you an opportunity to sort oftake a look and see, wait a minute.

(55:52):
Oh, that's the thing that's causing this chaos.
Andrew there are some some ways in which youbegin so you can address it and fix it.
So if that's you Andrew if you feel as if that,you know, that that would be helpful for you,
It's just my wisdom being put in a book basedon my experience.
So, they can find it at nobusinesschaos.com.

(56:14):
So no business chaos.com.
Oh, great.
Very easy URL.
I love it.
I wanna make sure to put that no businesschaos.com.
Yes.
N o business chaos.com.
Oh, that's weird.
The w w w makes a difference.
Okay.
Alright.
Alright.
I learned something new all the time.
Perfect.

(56:35):
Well, you know, I'll put I'll put in our in ourin the link in our conversation, but yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
That's good to know.
Alright.
Well, yeah.
So if I found two questions, Carrie, I'm, howcan we best contact you and get a hold of you?
Anything else outside of this website?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So I'm a real person.
I love connecting.
Goodness.
Yeah.
I love connecting with other entrepreneurs

(56:55):
or people.
So, you know, find me on LinkedIn.
Give me a TM and say, hi.
I'd really love to connect that way.
Obviously, I'm on other other social media,places, Cariann Powell or Carrie Andrew Powell.
You can also find this on my website attrafalgarstrategies.co.
Perfect.
And then, the final question of the day is, forpeople to listen to this interview, what's the

(57:19):
one takeaway you want them to have from what wetalked about today?
You can build a business.
It can thrive, and it doesn't have to feel.
Like you're managing a tornado.
There are some normal problems, and thenthere's some abnormal problems.
There'll be an ostrich and put your head in theground, and not in ignoring the abnormal
problems Andrew them.

(57:40):
That's business, but address them.
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah.
What a great pep talk.
Well, this has been so wonderful, Carrie Ann.
Thank you so much for coming on today.
Definitely check out her websitewww.nobusinesschaos.com and find her on socials
Andrew look forward to you all next week fromthe next episode wrap results to Andrew Weiss,
and we'll see you all soon.

(58:01):
Thanks, everyone.
Thanks, Andrew.
Bye bye.
That concludes another episode of rapidresults.
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