Chapter 14: Gwen and Art are Not in Love part 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys, before jumping into today's episode, we just quickly wanted to acknowledge the

(00:05):
ongoing boycott of St. Martin's Publishing Company and announcement of the discriminatory
actions.
We hope it goes without saying, but we at RPH do not stand for genocide, racism, homophobia,
or discrimination of any kind and want to explicitly state our support for the Palestinian
people.
While this book that we'll be reading has distributed US copies with St. Martin's Publishing,

(00:26):
the author of Gwinnon Art or Not in Love, Lex Croucher, is not signed under St. Martin's
Publishing and has been very vocal about their denouncement of genocide and discrimination.
It is for those reasons, as well as our adamant celebration of pride in the face of publishing
companies that do not support its queer readers of color, we will be reading the copy of Croucher's
novel that was published under Bloomsbury.

(00:47):
If you also wish to support Croucher, please consider purchasing your copy from Bloomsbury
as well.
Welcome to the Runcy Power Hour, a book club for discussing romance from the erotic to
the erroneous.
As always, this is an explicit podcast and contains strong language, adult themes, and
sexual content.
If you are sensitive to these things, we urge you calmly but sincerely to turn off your

(01:10):
radio now.
This month we are reading Gwinnon Art or Not in Love by Lex Croucher.
This is part one of Gwinnon Art or Not in Love.
This podcast will contain spoilers through chapter 20, so if you want to read along with
us, stop listening now.
It's okay, we'll wait for you to come back.

(01:32):
This book contains themes of violence, homophobia, struggles with mental health including depression,
unhealthy relationships with alcohol, parental death, and parental abuse.
You have been warned.
I'm your producer Ashlyn.
I'm a knight who's come to the court to spread some courtly love, Sydney.

(01:58):
And I'm Excalibur, the sexy needlepoint sword that so knights Sydney has to pull from its
tight little confines of this rock.
Now get ready to get fronchy.

(02:23):
I love embarrassing myself on a regular basis.
Courtly love does sound like an STD.
Yeah, you're right Ashlyn, you're right.
Hes sent me!
My knight in shining armor.
Hello Winn, my queen, I have to hold up all her honor for...

(02:44):
Yes, I have a question for you.
Oh, I love a question.
What's the question?
Let's say you are a ruler of, you know, insert kingdom name here, right?
Okay.
You're a monarchy.
You are charged with the task of putting on a tournament that, you know, excites your

(03:08):
subjects, brings revenue and revelry to your kingdom.
What activities, what sporting events would you have in your tournament?
You can pick up to three, but at least one.
Okay, up to three, but at least one.
Let me think, let me think, let me think, let me think.

(03:30):
Hmm, this is an interesting question, because the events I would put on are like really
boring and I feel like no one would want to come to my little, to my little hangout, because
I would do like a crafting fair basically.
I love that though.

(03:51):
Um, let's think, let's think.
Competitive knitting.
Very riveting, very, very riveting.
Um, I would say, you know what, some type of dancing.

(04:13):
Dancing is always fun.
I feel like people love dancing and like seeing people do cool dances.
Um, honestly, kind of anything that kind of goes on at the run fair, um, would really
love any of the performers that are typically at like a run fair, just like do comedy bits
and stuff.
Ooh, Jack the whipper from Tik Tok.

(04:35):
He's so cool.
Um, I would love to have him.
That's that's actually, I take it back, my whole competitive knitting thing.
Jack the whipper would be there because he's really cool.
Um, and, um, yeah, so Jack the whipper, some sort of dancing, because you know, I feel
like everyone loves a good competition.

(04:56):
I feel like everyone could be like, oh yeah, dancing.
Everyone's moving so good.
Um, and then lastly, uh, I don't know, some sort of comedy show.
I feel like everyone likes a good comedy show to make them feel better after a long, yeah,
like something fun, you know, entertaining, nothing too violent.
I'm not into violence.
I feel that.

(05:17):
I love that you said sports and I did like one, two things that are sports and one thing
that is definitely not sports.
Listen, listen, my answer is very similar.
Trust.
Okay.
Okay.
What's your answer?
First of all, I love that.
Would I know, I know we asked the competitive knitting.
I would participate.
Okay.

(05:37):
Do you even know?
No, not at all.
Okay.
I would learn from for you, my queen.
Why thank you.
My three events and this is partially inspired because love Island season 11 is airing.
Ooh.

(05:57):
Um, I would do a blindfolded kissing challenge for consenting adults where me as queen would
make it so that people who are very known, like enemies, not like any serious capacity,
but like, you know, you stole milk from my cow, you know, like that kind of shit would
be kissing each other and hopefully it would spark an enemies to lovers arc that is cemented

(06:22):
for the ages.
Okay.
Queen Charlotte of Bridgerton.
I know diamond of the season.
Exactly.
You just read this.
My second event would be a poetry meeting, but it has to be all sad.
You cannot have a single happy poetry.
There cannot be a dry eye on the house because the third and final events of the evening

(06:49):
doesn't will pay me up for the sad poetry is going to be, it's going to be a drunk ball
pit in which people get sloshed on the ale and then have to like do trick jumps and parkour
into a football pit.

(07:10):
I feel like it's a very bad idea, but I know I would definitely go and watch that.
It's so good.
It's so good.
There'll be so many germs.
Everyone would be sick the next week, but it would be so worth it.
I think it'd be so fun.
I agree.
I agree.
I like it.
I love that we both chose two sports, one thing, not sport.

(07:32):
You know, they know what the audience is at this jousting tournament.
Okay.
And it's ours.
So like, what do they expect from us?
And it's pride month.
They can't do it without it.
Exactly.
By the way, guys, happy pride.
And if you don't, you're a freak.

(08:00):
Get with it.
Yeah, exactly.
Aslan, do you have anything to say?
I'll lie.
Good job, Aslan.
So to celebrate pride this year, we have decided that we are going to be reading a YA book,

(08:21):
none other than called Gwen and Art Are Not in Love by Lex Croucher.
I'm going to say Croucher.
So this little book, fantastic, 10 out of 10 recommend reading it.
Or if you're not, just listen to us talk about it because we very much enjoyed it.

(08:42):
So kind of going into some basic info, going into this year's pride month book.
The whole book rounds out to about 407 pages long.
This book was actually pretty newly published, only published last year in May of 2023.
Well, I say last year as of this recording, who knows how far ahead you're listening to

(09:03):
this.
So on Story Graph, we have an average rate of 4.09 stars out of 5 out of 6,000 reviews.
And then on Goodreads, we have a 4.03 out of 15,000 reviews.
This book has been granted the Nero Award shortlist.

(09:25):
And it is a New York Times bestseller, USA Today bestseller plus, oh wait, USA Today
plus indie bestselling author.
My bad.
And what's really fun is, unfortunately, I did find out that November 9th is also YA,
but I wrote down that this book is a YA book, which we haven't really gone into very much.

(09:47):
So no, there will not be any spice.
And if I see anybody asking in the comments, where's the spice?
Unfortunately, I will kick you out.
It's YA.
Not everything has to have spice, y'all.
We are erotic from the erroneous, but sometimes there is just love, okay?
It's romance podcast, God.
And it's Pride Month.

(10:07):
Asexuals can party too.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Going into our character list, we have Gwen DeGray, who is a princess.
She is our princess.
She is one of our main love interests.

(10:28):
And then we also have Bridget LeClair, AKA Lady LeClair.
She is our Lady Knight.
And spoiler alert, she is a love interest of Gwendolyn DeGray, also just known as Gwen.
I'll probably just refer to her as Gwen throughout the book because that's mainly what she's
known as.
And then we have Arthur DeLacy, one of our other love interests.

(10:51):
Crazy guys.
We have four love interests in this book.
And he is the son of some guy.
I know we have six.
We have six different love stories going on in this.
Not six different love stories, but like three different love stories, a bunch of people
in love.
But kind of what you need to know about Arthur is that he's kind of out-headed, kind of

(11:14):
a silly guy.
And also, surprise, he's actually betrothed to Gwen, which won't work out very well because
here's coming in the next person, Gabriel DeGray, who is Arthur's love interest.
Yep, guys, we got a fake dating, but it's much different than what you're thinking of
fake dating.
So I'm very excited to kind of go into this.

(11:36):
Other characters that you need to know of are King and Queen DeGray.
They are the parents of, I called them the G's, okay, Gwen and Gabriel.
The King, he's a little more soft with his children.
He's very patient with them.
Obviously, he's got a lot going on.
Mom is just kind of your typical uptight mom character.

(11:59):
Another person you need to know about is Sidney Fitzbeth.
I wrote the name down wrong and I can't read it.
Fitzgerald?
I don't know.
I don't remember.
His name is Sidney, which I know is weird guys because my name is Sidney, but he's BFFs
with Arthur, aka also his bodyguard, but they're also just like besties forever.

(12:23):
We have Angs.
I don't know what her last name is, but basically she's kind of Gwen's lady in waiting.
She's just kind of quiet, kind of timid, but fiercely loyal to Gwen, even when Gwen is
being a dick.
What did you think her name was?
Angs?

(12:43):
Is it Agnes?
It's Agnes.
Damn.
Dyslexia coming in hard right now.
I hate it when you guys make me do these intros.
No one's holding an Excalibur to your head.
That was a good one.
That was good.
Solid.
That was solid.
That was really good.

(13:04):
Yeah, but we have Agnes.
I like that I said Angs in my head for the whole book until someone corrected me just
now.
I love that for me.
Anyway, we also have Lord Willard.
He is a cousin to the king and kind of what you just need to know majorly about him is

(13:26):
that he is a cultist and yeah, you'll learn more about him throughout the book.
We also have Sir Marlin, aka the Knight.
He is basically a swordsman for Lord Willard.
And then last but not least, we have Lord DeLacy, aka Arthur's dad, Lord of Maudville.
He's also a cultist and we'll get into what a cultist means when we get into the book

(13:51):
summary.
And yeah, I mean that's kind of it.
Is there anything I missed, Lauren?
No, don't believe so.
Alright, sounds good.
Well then I think we'll just jump right into it after I tell you my tabs.
Today's books tabs are we've got Witty Banter.

(14:13):
We have Interesting Lore because I found there was a lot of interesting lore like sprinkled
throughout this book and it was really good.
We have just me internally screaming for good or bad.
We have I laughed out loud moments.
And then we also have I like that slash Witty Banter.
Very nice.

(14:34):
I do not have tabs or take notes like an irresponsible little podcaster when I am reading these books.
But if I had taken notes, I would also for once in my life in the one year and a half
we've been doing this podcast, whatever tabs for moments I laughed out loud.
You know, Lauren, you know what's crazy?

(14:54):
There is a way to do that.
If you go on the Fable app, because surprise guys, we actually have a book club on there.
So if you guys want to follow us on there, you can follow along and see us update in
real time our reading because you can actually like include little moments and like scan
from the book like certain quotes.
So if you would like to follow us on there and follow along while we read these live,

(15:18):
please go on there and go follow us.
We are on the RPH podcast on there.
Yeah, it'll be like our book reviews, but more sober and a little more coherent.
A tiny bit more.
Not really.
Not really.
It is still us.
Not really.
But we're still there.
But hey, you can also interact with us on there, which would be kind of cool to see

(15:40):
some some listeners tune in and do that with that would be very happy anyway going into
the book now.
And Lauren, did you think this book would open with our one of our main characters having
a wet dream and opening with that?
You know, I got to say, I did pick up this book from a YA.

(16:05):
Jesus, YA section.
Sorry, God's forbidden me from talking about sex of an independent bookstore.
And I have certain expectations when it comes to YA queer novels that often do not involve
a wet dream.
So long story short, no, not at all.

(16:26):
I was curious when I first opened this book and I it wasn't really like a wet dream.
It was just like her.
Apparently she talks in her sleep.
It was implied she was moaning in her sleep, though.
And I was curious to see if we would have any like, quote unquote, spicy scenes or like
a fade to black kind of thing.

(16:48):
When we first opened, spoiler alert, guys, you don't get any of that, which again, if
I see any comments asking, where's the spice in this book, you're getting kicked out, you're
getting bonked with the horny gavel and you're going straight to jail.
Whomp, whomp, horny jail.
Horny jail.
You got to go.
Anyway, so we open the book with Gwen waking up from having a dream about a certain lady

(17:12):
night that she's very excited to see again for the first time in over a year.
So Gwen is just waking up and I'll be honest, when we first started reading it, she is not
the most likable character.
She grows on you.
She grows on you a lot.

(17:33):
It's actually so intriguing that you say that because I resonated a lot with both the twins,
but like, oh, they're not twins, right?
Oh, simply sorry.
Where I like.
Could see facets of me like in all the books that we've read.

(17:54):
And granted, I'm up against, you know, Mothman in a combination like that.
But across all the books, I actually never resonated more with characters than Gabriel
and Gwendolyn.
So that's really funny that you say that.
You're just saying you don't like me.
No, I do like you.
What I didn't like is her being like, Agnes, I don't like people.

(18:18):
I don't actually want to talk to this person.
But yeah, I thought she was just a little.
I don't know.
She was giving me just a little pretentious, but she grew on me and she got better.
So it's okay.
But basically, Gwen wakes up and she's getting ready for the day with Agnes because Agnes

(18:39):
is her lady and waiting and helping and her brother Gabriel kind of bursts into the room
and Gabe's like, hey, they may want to look at this ledger I found.
And it's a bunch of like normal expenses going out of the treasury.
But suddenly Gwen is noticing a lot of her personal items, which means it's her dowry,

(19:03):
which means, uh-oh, her wedding is coming up.
So we get a little backstory and we find out that Arthur and Gwen have been betrothed to
each other ever since Gwen was two and Arthur was like four or something.
So they've been betrothed this whole time and they hate each other like so much.

(19:30):
It is giving Swan Lake a little bit, except they don't end up falling in love, you know?
Do you know what I'm talking about?
That animated movie, Swan Lake?
No.
I've never seen it.
Gotta say.
No.
No.
Ash is also giving me a weird look.
You've never seen it either?

(19:54):
Are we talking about like the ballet Swan Lake, but as a movie?
Yes, it was an animated movie.
Okay.
Cool.
I know the story of Swan Lake.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
There's a whole animated movie to the listeners out there who know what I'm talking about.
You'll know what I'm saying.
There's this whole musical sequence between the princess and the prince and they like

(20:17):
hate each other until they grow up and then they're like pushing two of them together
and suddenly it's in love because they're like, oh God, you got hot.
That's weird.
Ash is pointing at you.
So I'm talking about.
I got you boo.
I know what we're talking about.
I thought you were talking about the Barbie movie for a second.
Not the Barbie movie.
Not Barbie.
But yeah, they're kind of giving just like that.
Oh, I hate you.

(20:37):
The whole vibe.
Anyway, so we are told about that and then from there we're told the reason that they
are betrothed to each other is because Gwen's father, the king, won the throne.
Like there was basically a succession crisis and the Norwegian king tried to come over

(21:03):
and take the English throne.
And it was basically between Gwen's dad and Gwen's dad's cousin, Lord Willard.
And Willard decided to throw his support behind Gwen's father.
And in doing so, that also meant Arthur's father.

(21:27):
And so the reason that's such a big deal is because those two are part of a section called
the Arthurian cultists.
So in this world, and this is such a cool line of plot and I love how Lex did this.
I think they did just an amazing job weaving in the Arthurian lore into this book.

(21:50):
But they believe that King Arthur and Camelot, everything that happened, was 100% real.
And they believe King Arthur will one day come back and basically reclaim his throne.
So to appease all of this, Gwen and Gabriel's father betrothed Gwen to Arthur to appease

(22:16):
the cultists.
He also moved his court from London to Camelot.
And also in this book, which I found interesting, the author came out later and said, if you
want to believe there's magic and all of that in this world, you can go ahead.
But I'm going to let you guys decide that.
So I love that little detail.
But before we go in detail, Lauren, I wanted to ask you about how you felt with the introduction

(22:42):
of all of this Arthurian lore.
It's quite interesting that you say that because I am actually not super knowledgeable of Arthurian
lore, which is funny if you consider the fact that I used to be a raging Merlin on BBC fan

(23:04):
girlie.
But in all actuality, if you really think about it, that show is probably not the most
accurate and best example of the lore.
So all I have to say, I've never actually seen what is it, The Sword and the Stone.
I've never read any close to the end of Arthur.

(23:26):
I had to read that shit for like in middle school or something.
No, no.
Down here in the yellow south where I had my early education, we don't believe in fairy
tales.
You know how it goes.
So this was my first exposure.
And I will say, in my mind, I don't know if this is true or not, but in my mind, I was

(23:49):
trying to draw comparisons between at least archetypes of like who Gwendolyn was, who
Arthur was, who Gabriel was to what I knew of Arthurian legend and sort of who they might
have been based off of.
And it was hard for me to place until the end, which obviously we will be saving that
for far down the road.

(24:09):
But I almost had fun with that, though.
That being said, like I think this is a very approachable book for folks that are both
into and not well exposed to Arthurian legend.
I had no issue in my lack of knowledge, dissuading me from enjoying this book.
In fact, I enjoyed it very thoroughly, which I know collective gasp.

(24:30):
Lauren's not a hard ass about a book for once.
I know pigs are flying.
But yeah, I think this is a very approachable book.
In some veins, it reminds me of Madeline Miller's, like very like, like intelligent and also

(24:50):
approachable entry into like Greek mythology, but also still maintaining a creative spin
on it.
So I very much will give Croucher their laurels for executing that very well.
Yeah, because as someone who I know a bit just from what I read when I was younger,
so I was able to like recognize names pretty quickly.
And I knew some of the stories that they were referencing, but I really loved how, I don't

(25:16):
know, it was just very smoothly integrated.
And I 100% agree.
I felt like this was a very approachable read for someone who may not know all of Arthurian
lore and all of those stories.
So 10 out of 10 recommend that.
So yeah, I just wanted to ask you about that because I thought it was just very well introduced.

(25:38):
And going from there, we have a small breakfast between Gabe and Gwendolyn as they're talking
about like how she's like, I don't want to see Arthur again.
I don't like him.
And then the keeper's like, well, he has to be here.
You are a patrol to him.
She goes, but I don't want to.
And he's like, well, you have to.
And then they're kind of dragged out to the beginnings of the whole, what's it called?

(26:06):
Tournament.
Tournament.
Thank you.
I was looking for that word.
So it's the opening day for tournament.
So all the knights are coming in and like bowing to the king and queen and going hello, and
they're going hello.
And then suddenly as if angelically, she appears.
Lady LeClaire.

(26:29):
This introduction of Bridget, I loved it so much because basically what's told readers
is that Gwendolyn's had a thing for Bridget for a couple of years now.
She was really excited to see when Bridget decided to come through.
But Bridget also is not only the only lady knight in the tournament or like in England

(26:58):
basically whatsoever.
She is also Ty, which I had to look up.
So because they refer to her that she comes from the kingdom of, she is descended from
the kingdom of Tsukhoth, Tsukhothai?
It's spelled C-U-K-H-O-T-H-A-I.

(27:20):
And I had to look that up.
And that was what one of the kingdoms that reigned over Thailand was called.
And I was like, oh, that's really cool.
So not only is she the only lady knight, but she's also Asian and I love that kind of representation.
So yeah, she comes in and Gwen's just like, oh no, I like her again.

(27:46):
Just renewing of the crush.
Moving on, chapter two.
And we get a POV switch because surprise everybody, it switches it between Gwen and Arthur's POVs
for the rest of the book.
So we're in Arthur's POV and there's really not much that can be said.

(28:08):
Kind of what happens is that we wake up and we just jump into the scene of him being thrown
out of a tavern.
For what he and Sydney have done, we don't know, but we know they just hop on some horses
and they gallantly run away from whatever trouble they have caused.
They get back to basically the house and basically the mother figure of Arthur, I don't remember

(28:33):
what her name is, basically goes, hey, by the way, your dad's here.
And he's like, shit.
And we learn very quickly that Arthur has daddy issues because Lord Dalacey is a terrible
person.
Don't hold the gaze.
I mean, it's the prophecy.
It is, it is unfortunately a part of the gay agenda.

(28:55):
It is, it is.
We don't like it.
But he, it basically goes to his dad and his dad's like, hey, so you really need to start
courting Gwen proper because you're about to go get married to her.
And Arthur again is like, I don't want to.
And his father's like, I don't care.

(29:17):
You're going to Camelot.
And then we also learned that Arthur not only has daddy issues, but he also has dead mom
issues because his mom died.
What's the boom, tick tock sound effect?
Another one.
Another one.
Yeah.
So we just got a lot of trauma for this poor, for this poor guy.

(29:38):
And he and Sydney pack up and they head to Camelot, which begrudgingly, because they
do not want to be there.
Because they are heading to camp, they get there and Arthur is pretty much drunk off
his ass, which is a reoccurring theme throughout this book.
Because he has not the greatest relationship with alcohol.
He basically falls off his horse, then goes into the kitchen to go get bread and runs

(30:05):
into Gabriel who he hasn't seen in a couple of years.
And Gabriel's like, why are you on the floor?
And he's like, can I have a Mars pan?
And Gabriel's like, no.
And he says, well, then I'm just going to be on the floor.
Leave me alone.
Gabriel's like, OK, bye.
So yeah, that's the introduction of our two of our people who are meant to be falling
in love.

(30:28):
I do.
I do want to comment on that.
And that obviously from Glenn and Bridget, at least on Gwen's side, right?
It is like instantaneous attraction.
And you're hit with that literally in chapter one.
I love the almost like flip side of that coin, where for Arthur and Gabriel, at least like
for me, it was not like I knew clearly that was who it was going to be, you know, the

(30:51):
love interest.
But in the book itself, there was not that instant like, oh, oh, who go, who go?
You know, like my eyes are like moving out my head.
Like there's maybe one passing comment in the early chapters or authors like, oh, he's
grown more handsome, you know, and that's like it.
And to me, I really liked that because I think it did a great job of like balancing the tropes
so that it didn't all feel like one singular, one singular like archetype of relationship.

(31:18):
And I think that's sort of something that like really took this to the next level for
me and made all the characters and their individual perspectives feel so unique.
It was really good.
Yeah, it feels like Arthur and Gabriel's relationship specifically does run a little bit more slow
and more real and like they're still trying to figure things out.
So yeah, I liked that, too, because when when we know she's been she's been pining for a

(31:41):
couple of years, but it is basically you can characterize it as insta love.
We'll do that since we're jumping in at this exact point within this character's POV.
Chapter three.
We
basically, Gwen tries to get out of the engagement.

(32:03):
She's like, Dad, I do not want to marry him.
And Gabriel's like, yeah, he does the best reputation.
And I saw him stumbling into the kitchen and the king's like, hey, like, I really need
this.
Like, I don't want to torture you.
I'm not trying to be torturous to you, but.
You have to marry him.
I have to honor a promise I did.

(32:25):
So she's like really she's just kind of morose for the rest of the day.
She then goes to dinner and sees Arthur for the first time.
And they just have like bickering sibling energy.
And I'll be completely real with you.
I understand that there was a needed point for them to have this like weird I hate you

(32:46):
relationship.
I didn't love it because I felt like we didn't have a real reason to why they hated each
other.
I think I agree with that.
I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's like a point in the book where they do kind of get into it a little bit, but you're

(33:07):
absolutely right.
It to me didn't feel like there was this like concretizing moment because I'll tell you
what I thought.
Like, I believe it's in this chapter where Gwen recalls a memory from her youth where
like she was particularly upset about something and then she goes outside.
Gabriel hands her like the last pastry or like whatever it was.
And then Arthur.

(33:27):
She said it was her first.
Yeah.
She said it was her first memory.
And then her first memory of Arthur was him taking that.
Yeah.
And so in my mind, I was like, I wonder if this is going to be like somewhat of a miscommunication
trope in which like you kind of do what anime is right.
Where it's like, oh my God, he's such an asshole.
He took this piece of bread, but in all actuality, it was like maybe he was told that, oh, like,

(33:52):
you know, I don't know.
It's hard to articulate it now, but I think yeah, I was kind of waiting for that moment
for myself.
And then I don't think it ever came, which for me, it didn't detract from anything, but
it was kind of like it felt almost like a thread that was left just like a little bit
loose to me.
I don't know about you.

(34:12):
I'll be honest, it detracted me for like the first 100 pages of this book.
I'll be completely honest with you and all of our listeners.
I just want it, like I understood that they like, they just didn't like each other because
of all the little things they did as kids, which fair.
But I want to know what started it because I think like, I think it's meant to be hinted

(34:37):
that it's kind of the issues that Arthur has with his dad and his dad, like trying to be
controlling and him basically fighting against him.
So in doing so being an ass to Gwen, but it didn't come off as that really.
And maybe, and yeah, maybe I just would have liked him to be like, yeah, this, it was this

(34:58):
moment that my dad said something to me and I just decided to hate you from then on because
you represented this.
And then she hating him because he was just being a dick.
That's what I've liked.
Yeah, I agree with that, especially if like they're kids at a young age, I feel like,
and maybe this is just my own misunderstanding of childhood, but I feel like children like

(35:21):
don't really have the nuance complexity to be like, oh, I hate this person because of
like the things they exemplify and the things that I cannot have and blah, blah, blah.
Like, I feel like kids just kind of vibe for the most part.
And like any, you know, disliking of each other comes from like more of those like simplistic
like overt actions of like, she pushed me, he hit me, you know, like that kind of stuff.

(35:46):
And there is some of that, but like it was after already there have been like tensions
and aggression.
Yeah.
So that's why I said it kind of gave off that energy from Swan Lake, the animated movie,
because it's kind of like the same thing in that movie is like those two kids hate each
other for like no reason.
And then they're like just dicks to each other and they're like, oh, I hate hanging out here

(36:08):
because of that and then they like see each other and they're like, oh, OK, yeah, I guess
they're fine.
So I just would have liked a more definite answer as to why we hate each other.
But there wasn't and it's OK because I would have loved if Gwen was like the reason I hated
these because you represented the fact that I can't even choose for myself who I want
to be married to.
Yeah.

(36:28):
Yeah.
That would have been great.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
Oh, well.
I hate each other, I guess.
Yeah.
Honestly, I will leave it at that.
Like it was a detractor for the first 100 pages.
But honestly, I got into it after it.
So that's all I'll say on that kind of.

(36:49):
So yeah, basically, she talks to Arthur, Arthur's dick to her.
She's like, I don't understand why he's so like being so rude to me.
So she decides to leave the dinner after they do a little dance and she goes outside and
then she spies Lady LeClair walking away from the stables and being the weirdo that she

(37:10):
is decides that she goes, A, do I spy on her or B, do I decide to hide behind this bush?
She chooses B and just like falls behind a bush and it's just like she can't know.
But while she's back there, she sees two figures sneaking out into a darkened area.
And one of those figures is Arthur and the other is just a normal dude.

(37:33):
And she sees Arthur kissing a boy.
Yeah.
I did say I was like, this feels like a Bridgerton scandal.
Like the whole like catching Arthur kissing a boy.

(37:53):
Yeah, it does feel and this is not a criticism at all because it is YA.
It felt very YA, I will say, of like, you know, I see you, you see me, you see each
other.
Exactly.
And Arthur like sees Gwen and he's like, okay, we gotta go talk.
So he like drags her into the wine cellar.
This is going to chapter four.

(38:15):
So he drags her into a wine cellar.
He's like, what did you see?
And she goes, I saw nothing.
What did you see?
And he goes, well, I did see you hide behind a bush and staring creepily at Lady LeClair.
And she's like, no, you didn't.
I could tell my dad that you were kissing a boy and that's more evidence.
And then she like leaves and he's like, shit, what do I do?
I need I need to blackmail this girl.

(38:37):
So he does.
Yeah, listen, that is my typical response when I have, you know, troubles with like
coworkers.
I also immediately leave to blackmail.
Exactly.
So he goes to Sydney and he's like, okay, I have this idea because I think this item
is where she kept it all those years ago.
And in fact, it is.
So they meet the next morning in like the garden and they're walking.

(39:00):
I'm going to say promenading because I'm watching way too much Bridgerton.
So they're basically like walking in the garden and Arthur's like, okay, so by the way, I'm
going to blackmail you because I have your old journal from when you first started writing
about Lady LeClair and Gwen's like, what?
And he goes, yeah, I know everything and I'm going to keep it.

(39:20):
So you keep my secret.
I keep your secret.
You help me go have fun and hang out and I want to anywhere that you have a little crush.
And she begrudgingly agrees.
And they decide to basically fake date and be like, yeah, we're getting along.

(39:40):
So it makes both of their lives easier.
And I love the fact that this trope of fake dating has been kind of like turned on its
head and it's kind of used differently than what we've seen, you know, in like other romance
books.
And I want to get your opinion on that because I I loved it.
I was eating that shit up.

(40:02):
Yeah, I think I will say this may not be like directly answering the question, but so this
scene, right, they introduce this concept of like this diary, right, that has all of
like her scandalous secrets and then like it's like sort of like the beginning of this,
like we're going to be in this together, whether we like it or not.

(40:22):
And like, you know, this begrudging relationship, right.
That's all fine and well for me.
I was kind of seeing this diary as like, what is it?
The Shikov's gun where I thought this was going to be and I guess this is a very, very
mild spoiler.
I don't think anyone cares.
Way more important than it ever was.
Because it's in this chapter where Gwen notices that several pages are torn out of the diary

(40:45):
and like Arthur is keeping them for collateral and it's all of like a page related to like
Bridget and just, you know, gayness.
Yeah, but, you know, gayness.
Yeah, the gays.
But I was thinking and here is my prediction, right, that at some point, Arthur was going
to like misplace them or it was going to be the trip of like he's going to send them for

(41:07):
blackmail, but then like something happens between him and Gwen and he regrets it, but
then like it already gets out.
Like, oh, I thought it was going to be way more important than it was.
Newsflash.
It's not.
And I was a little bit disappointed, but I did love the premise of this chapter outside
of that and sort of the narrative we were delving into because, you know, I love a good

(41:27):
either enemies to friends or enemies to lovers.
You know, I'm into it.
And I've discovered a new favorite trope, enemies to friends.
Indeed.
It is quite pleasant.
It is quite pleasant.
And that is kind of what is introduced throughout the rest of this because going into chapter

(41:50):
five, it is the lists day.
So basically what the lists are is that just free form fighting between two knights and
whoever does, whoever wins and triumphs goes on to the next round.
So Gwen and Arthur show up and they're being cordial.

(42:10):
They're appearing like they're actually having a good time and being nice to each other.
And as this happens, he's kind of goading Gwen because she's like, oh, well, someone
I did, someone I want is coming out here soon.
And of course it's Bridget.
And as Lady LeClaire appears, it appears that she is fighting none other than Sir Marlin,

(42:33):
aka the knife.
And the knife is just kind of known to be very ruthless and to, you know, kill people.
I just.
So he's just known to be very vicious.
And that was like a big shock is they're like, she's not to be meant to be fighting this
guy.

(42:53):
Like why was that randomly changed?
Anyway, basically Arthur's like goading when on because he gives Lady LeClaire his favor,
basically telling her to win.
But then she gets beat the shit out of by Sir Marlin.
And Gwen's like really upset with him because she's like, why did you do that?

(43:15):
Like you made her more embarrassed.
Like that's really shitty of you.
Why would you do that?
And as she's leaving, they actually interact a little bit like and Gwen's like, I'm so
sorry like you got beat up so bad.
And Bridget's like, yeah, it's fine.
I'll get up.
I'll recover.
And I'm just like, Bridget, you're being way too cool.

(43:38):
I know very Bridget is a very stoic character throughout this novel and very much like a
great contrast, I think to Gwendolyn's more.
And I say this love neuroticism.
And it's very nice.
It's a good dynamic.
Very much, very much because Bridget is just like, yeah, I'll be fine.
I've got a cup.
I needed a couple days to recover, but then I'll be right back in it.

(43:59):
I'm like, you go, Bridget.
You go.
I have a thing for characters who are like that, apparently.
I'm just realizing that now live.
So it is it is a book talk essential.
True, true, true, true, true.
It is.
Going on to chapter six, Arthur has like a small meeting with the king.

(44:23):
He's got to go to lunch with him and talk about things.
Arthur's not sure about what, but he just knows he's being called.
And unfortunately, he has to go because it is the king.
So while he is like waiting to go, he like just stumbles into like the secret little
rose garden, just like in the castle.
And he meets a little orange cat and he's just like, that's a weird looking cat.

(44:46):
But in the middle, this garden becomes more significant as the book progresses.
But it's like a little rose garden.
It's very hidden in the middle is just a statue of none other than King Arthur himself.
So yeah, and bells ring.
Arthur's like, shit, going to be late, runs to go have lunch with the king.

(45:09):
And the king's like, hey, I like you and I like your dad.
I need to keep the alliance going.
Don't be stupid.
Make good decisions basically.
And Arthur's like, will do and leaves.

(45:32):
And then he just, he doesn't really have a good time because he's like, he, if he can't
tell Arthur has a thing with authority.
He does not like authority figures.
So he decides that Sydney and him need to go get drunk tonight.
And that's exactly what they do.

(45:53):
Because yeah, going to, oh no, it's still in this chapter.
Nevermind.
But they basically sneak into Gwen's room and use her room as a thing to make people
think that Gwen and him are spending time together.
When instead Arthur has snuck out of the castle entirely and is going to an inn to go kiss

(46:17):
boys and get drunk.
And everyone's like, why would, I love the fact that Gwen's like, why?
Because people will think like, you know, we're doing stuff and he goes, yeah, that's
the point.
It's like, okay.
You're like, you know what?
Fair enough.

(46:37):
Fair enough.
So yeah, he goes to an inn and then he sees that boy that he was kissing before and he
decides to go kiss him again.
Going into chapter seven, it's just, it's the next morning.
Gwen is going downstairs to eat breakfast with the fam, you know, do family breakfast
and mom's like, Hey Gwen.
So I heard Arthur was in your rooms last night and Gwen's like, shit.

(47:01):
She's, we were just talking mom, I swear.
And the mom's like, look, you can be just talking and that's fine.
But people are not going to assume you're just talking.
So please be careful and don't do it again.
And Gwen's like, okay, I won't do it again.

(47:22):
And it's another day of the tournament and it is one of, it's another day of the lists.
So Gwen has told Arthur to meet her at the tournament, but Arthur doesn't show up because
he's got a reaching hangover.
But Lauren, who does he send instead?

(47:45):
Oh dear listeners, dear gentle Rita.
Dear gentle Rita, Arthur, since for lady Bridget LeClair.
And she shows up to the Royal seats and they, she sits with Gwen and as this is happening,

(48:07):
they're just kind of talking cause Gwen's like, who sent for you?
And she goes, what are your pages?
And she's like, it's not one of mine.
And Bridget basically describes Sydney and Gwen is like, yep, yep.
And Bridget's like, yeah, your friend, your betrothed.
And Gwen just instantly goes, he's not my betrothed.

(48:28):
And Gwen like kind of gives her a little like little side eye and it's like, she knows,
she knows.
And I love that.
Anyway, as this is happening, there are two people, it's the knife and someone else and
they're fighting and it goes wrong.

(48:48):
Because basically one guy is like, Sir Marlon is knocked to the ground and the other guy
is like literally about to kill him.
And Bridget's like, Gwen, you need to say something because the grand marshal isn't
in his seat for some reason, cause he's known to drink and gamble and do all that stuff.
And Gwen's like, no, I can't, I can't say anything.

(49:08):
And Bridget's like, you have to say something like you're Royal, like you have a voice.
And Bridget and Gwen's like, I can't.
And finally Bridget literally like jumps into things.
I don't remember, I think she grabs a sword from somewhere and is like about to take on
this man and they begin fighting.
When suddenly Gabriel appears in the Royal seats and is like, Hey, stop it.

(49:32):
Stop it guys.
And they are, they are then done with the fighting.
And Gabriel's like, Gwen, why didn't you say anything?
And yeah, the, it doesn't go well because Gwen's like, but I couldn't and Gabriel's

(49:56):
like, yeah, you could have said something.
You would have gotten it.
But up in here, I was, this scene was like interesting for me because I thought they
were going to expand upon this more.
I'll be real.
And I thought this was going to lead into more of a conversation of like, women do not

(50:19):
have power and that like Bridget helps Gwen come into her own power by like, be just like
such a force to reckon with and like brute forcing her way through like the patriarchy.
And like there is some, I don't know if I'm wrong, but like it's very like, it's never
overtly stated in a way that I feel like I would have liked.
Very much like, and to be honest to me, it doesn't even feel like Gwen comes into her

(50:44):
power.
Like there's not like a really defining moment for her.
I just feel like at one minute she's more anal and the other she's slightly less anal.
I do love Gwen.
I say this with like all affection and it was not something that bothered me, but I
was really, I at first I really enjoyed that scene.
Oh shit.
Like there's going to be another moment, which you know, there is down the road, but like

(51:06):
I thought there was almost going to be like another moment earlier on, or like she gets
to almost like prove herself again.
Yeah.
In that way and have a more overt conversation about like women and power.
I don't think that's what the author was going for because the way I interpreted it, especially
later on in the book with how characters were talking about themselves, particularly, particularly

(51:31):
Arthur himself and Gwen.
Arthur calls himself a coward and he says he's like, he doesn't do things out of being
brave.
He does stuff out of being like stubborn.
And I almost viewed it as like basically they're the same person, like they're the same, they're
the same type on the same same base on the same coin.

(51:52):
You know?
And I almost want to say like, that's kind of what it was.
And then them getting their power wasn't more of like trying to make a statement on like
women having voices or something like that.
But it was more of like, it was more of them being like, oh, I'm going to be brave because
I need to protect the people I love.
Sure.
Yeah.

(52:13):
And I'm definitely not discounting that.
Like that is absolutely like a theme that came up and I agree.
I think I was just thinking there would have been a more like for me personally, a more
interesting through line where you can do both.
I mean, you could have like a more nuanced conversation of like why Arthur does have
opportunities to like, because I mean, he is a bit more like I say this a lot of insolent

(52:37):
and like even if he is a coward, he still is like a lot more like I can say and do what
I want to an extent where I don't think Gwendolyn is.
I mean, a prime example is like really the chapter before where Gwen's mother's like,
don't let anyone think y'all are having sex.
But like, I don't think anyone has that conversation with Arthur.
And so for me, I was like, this story would be at the next level if there was like a little

(52:59):
more of that.
True.
And maybe a little bit more, it would have taken it a little bit more into like courtly
things and being like, hey, you can't be doing that because your reputation will follow you.
People talk.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're right.
Yeah.
I like that.
I think that would have been good too.

(53:19):
Thank you.
I try.
I try.
Good.
Good.
Thank you.
Going into chapter eight now.
I just sorry, I just love my first note I wrote for this chapter is Arthur sure does

(53:42):
Arthur sure does really like snobby gay guys.
Don't know why I wrote that.
I just love it that that's what I wrote.
But anyway, he oh no, I said he really acting like a very snobby gay guy because he's just
like because he has a very bad headache and hangover, but he also basically goes into

(54:03):
an impressive episode and he just feels really bad about himself.
He just wants to mope and Arthur and basically he gets up at one point to like go to like
go walk around and he sees the cat and he's named it Lucifer for some reason he keeps

(54:26):
calling it that and they run into Gabriel and the cat instantly runs over to Gabriel
and Gabriel's like, oh, by the way, that's my cat.
His name is Merlin and I do love Arthur being like, why did you name it after the wizard?
And Gabriel's like, I don't know.
It's okay.

(54:47):
After that little interaction, Sydney calls out Arthur for having a little crush on the
prince and Arthur's like, nah, nah, what?
Nah, I just he's cute.
That's it.
And he continues to mope and as he's moping, this is kind of when we get to him opening

(55:09):
up to Gwen a bit and we see some of that opening up beginning between these two characters,
I'm very glad began early because I'll be honest, I didn't know how much more I could
take of them hating each other for no reason.
But Arthur goes to visit Gwen because he wants to go out again with Sydney and Sydney has
already gone ahead.

(55:33):
But instead he kind of just like stops in Gwen's room and they kind of open up and Gwen
finally is just like, why do you hate me so much?
Can we like stop bickering for like five minutes?
Why do you not like me?
Like I'm so confused.
And they are just like, he hates her for he thinks she's being she's always a brat and

(55:59):
is always uptight.
And this is when I wrote down, oh, he just has a thing against authority figures.
Got it.
So that's why he always retaliates against her because she is like higher in status than
him technically and all of that.
So he doesn't like being told what to do and all of that.
And she's like, well, I hated you because you didn't treat me well.

(56:20):
You were not nice to me.
That's why I didn't like you.
And they open up about a lot of that.
And I just also wrote, there's the Catholic guilt because I also bring up both of them
just feeling guilty about.
Yeah, just, you know, he's feeling guilty about.

(56:44):
Actually, I don't remember.
Do you remember why he was guilty of feeling guilty about something?
There was a religious trauma and I couldn't remember why.
Yeah, I truly don't remember.
I remember now.
Okay.
So they were talking about both of them liking the same sex and because Gwen opened up about

(57:04):
like Lady LeClair and why she doesn't go to church anymore because she was like, I went
to church for the longest time and I stopped going because I started asking for things
I know I can't have, aka like having a relationship with a woman.
And Arthur's like, well, I don't even believe in that shit.

(57:25):
And they also like just talk about a lot of like diverse peoples.
Like we also learned that in this, it's just mentioned once, but Arthur's mother was Muslim.
And Arthur brings that up and he's like, yeah, so like my mom was Muslim.
I'm an atheist.
You don't know what you are and there's cultists and Catholics.
What do we do?

(57:46):
Like you can believe whatever you want to believe in.
Like do whatever makes you happy.
Who gives a shit kind of.
There we go.
Now my memory is jogged.
And Arthur basically leaves the room afterward after having this conversation going, well,

(58:06):
I feel a lot better because I feel a lot less miserable and it's good to know I'm not as
miserable as you.
Bye.
And he also just like, oh yeah, I gotta go take care of my cat.
And Gwen's like, Arthur, what cat?
Arthur, what cat?
Arthur.
And then he just leaves.
That's the end of that chapter.
Yeah it's a sweet little moment because we're in Gwen's perspective, I think.

(58:29):
We're in Arthur's in this one.
Oh, okay.
Well, whoever's perspective we're in, Arthur's, we get a moment like right at the end where
it's like there's a moment of like an impasse of like, I am enjoying this.
I'm consciously recognizing that I am enjoying this interaction.
This is odd.

(58:49):
I don't feel comfortable with how I'm enjoying this.
I'm going to bounce.
So I was like, I actually really, really liked that moment as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a really good point because honestly that leads us into chapter 10 where we get
into a little bit more world building because Arthur and Gwen still have this truce between

(59:13):
them that they've decided to just be chill about things.
And it's a couple of days later and it's her, like Gwen and Gabriel are hanging out in Gwen's
room when they get a knock on the door and Agnes who has been suspiciously dressed up
in a cloak goes to open the door and it's Sydney and Arthur.

(59:35):
And also we forgot to mention throughout most through most of this, Agnes and Sydney are
like hardcore flirting and like very much into each other throughout this like sequence.
So they're very much like, yeah, we're just hanging out.
We're having a good time.
Okay, Arthur, Agnes and Sydney say they're going out and Gwen who feels a little left

(01:00:01):
out because throughout this book, we were kind of told a lot of how both of these royal
siblings are pretty lonely.
They don't have friends and Gwen being kind of sick of not having friends asks it.
Well, she doesn't ask.
She demands she goes with them.

(01:00:22):
And they're like, are you sure about that?
And she's like, yes.
And Gabe's like, I'm not letting her go by herself.
So I'm going to go too.
So I'll get dressed in disguises and guess where they're going.
It's a cultist party.
And it's a party because we find out that it is the birthday of Morgan.
Lafay, DeFay, DeFay, Morgan DeFay.

(01:00:47):
And she is.
I guess Morgana.
Morgana Lafay.
Morgana Lafay or Morgana DeFay.
It is Morgana.
Yeah.
I think it's Lafay.
I think I just said it wrong.
No, you're good.

(01:01:09):
Yeah.
Okay.
Lafay.
Yeah.
She's also known as Morgan Lafay, but Morgana is her full proper.
I would say Christian name, but it's not quite, she's a witch.
She's a witch.
Anyway, it's her birthday.
And also the day she died, apparently.
So it's meant to be like a celebration of celebrating your good side and your bad side
in the duality of the world.

(01:01:32):
And as they get there, Gwen is surprised kind of like throughout this whole dialogue.
She's like, wow, I've never actually been outside the castle.
You just see how sheltered she is and the fact that she's just never really done any
of this before or seen what other people do.

(01:01:52):
And I find it was interesting to see that of her just talking about how, oh, I've never
been over here.
I didn't know there was a church over here and stuff like that.
And I think that is one of the points which started kind of grounding her as a character.
She started to become a little more grounded in the fact that she's like, oh yeah, I'm

(01:02:16):
a princess.
I'm very privileged.
You know?
Yeah.
Anyway, so they go to this little area and then this lady stops the boys and is like,
girls only, no boys allowed for this little birthday bash.

(01:02:36):
And Sydney's like, fine, I'm going to stay out here all night and wait for Agnes.
And Arthur and Gabriel are like, well, got to go.
So they decided to go.
And Agnes and Gwen go into the party.
Yeah.
Oh, wait, was that chapter nine?

(01:03:02):
No, chapter 10.
Okay, going into chapter 10.
So like I said, Arthur and Gabe decided to go back to the castle and Arthur's like, well,
what are you going to do?
Are you going to go out?
He goes, I don't know.
And Gabe's like, I'm going to go to the library because he's a nerdy little library boy and
he likes his books.
So Arthur's like, yeah, I'll go to the library with you.

(01:03:25):
And they hang out and Gabe kind of opens up about his interests behind the cultists and
Arthurian lore in general and why he's so interested in all of this.
And Arthur's like, well, why are you so interested?
And Gabe basically confesses his deepest, darkest secret, which is that he is trying to make

(01:03:54):
himself like Arthur, King Arthur himself, which is impossible to do.
And Arthur, our character, our Arthur, points that out.
And I want to ask you, Lauren, how you thought of this introduction of like a flaw of Gabriel's
for the rest of the book.

(01:04:18):
I did actually like it quite a bit because as I mentioned in the very beginning, I resonate
a lot with both Gwendolyn and Gabriel.
I actually say particularly Gabriel.
I kind of see a bit of myself when I get into very like I get within myself a lot and I
trap myself in the prison of my own mind and expectations.

(01:04:41):
And this is this is a scene that I like very much enjoyed and like helped me understand
him a lot better as a character because I can absolutely 100% relate to wanting to like
break the mold of like a system that you want to get into.
Like for me, that's academia wanting to break a mold, but like not knowing how to do it

(01:05:04):
from your own merits and like trying to live up to these impossible ideals and like trying
to emulate the people that I mean, Gabriel's not jealous of Arthur, I guess, like explicitly,
but like, you know, people you're jealous of or like those who are doing better than
you.
I mean, I think he's jealous.
I think he's jealous of Arthur in the sense that Arthur doesn't have the same responsibilities,

(01:05:25):
the same expectations that Gabriel has on his shoulders.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, like I almost was only speaking like an overt sense.
Like I don't think this is like really born from jealousy.
I think it's like I will say to that point, though, I kind of was like waiting for a cultist

(01:05:45):
subplot with Gabriel.
And maybe this is a mind to lose the fantasies.
I was like, what so spicy if like, because they ask Gabriel a lot and like ribbit him
of like, oh, are you a cultist?
Like why do you know much about this?
And I was like, oh my God, is he gay and an authoritarian cultist?
Hey, hey, and then, you know, you know, it turns out he just wants to be a good king.

(01:06:10):
And it's like, oh, okay.
Oh, Gabriel, you don't pull tarot.
Come on.
You don't like do crystals and like put them in the moonlight.
Come on and do what you should.
But no, I thought it was a very noble plot line for him and something that like really
made me resonate with him as a character and definitely paves the way for a lot of interesting

(01:06:33):
conversations and characterization moving forward.
Yeah.
And through this, Gabriel kind of reminds Arthur of like this childhood story, like memory
where they were talking to each other.
And I think Gabriel just like ran up to Arthur and asked him if he would rather be king,

(01:06:55):
if he could be king.
And when Gabriel went back to like his father, his dad was like, no, there's no way you are
king.
Like there's nothing, no one else can do the job.
And he just felt like this immense pressure.
So yeah, I just, I loved this introduction of this.

(01:07:16):
It just adds more depth to Gabriel's character and he realized, oh yeah, he's just trying
to be, he's being a people pleaser right now.
And you can see the effects of how stressful that is on him.
Where Arthur is like the opposite, you know, but he's doing it for his own like selfish

(01:07:38):
reasons.
So, I don't know.
I think they balance each other in that way, you know?
For sure.
Anyway, chapter 11, we're jumping back to our girls hanging out at the girly pop witch
party.
But it's a little festival.
So they're like in this little cavern somehow and Agnes and Gwen are hanging out, but Agnes

(01:08:00):
is like, yeah, I like have some friends who asked me to come.
That's how I found out about this.
And Gwen's like, go hang out with your friends.
And Agnes is like, bye.
She like runs away and Gwen is left alone.
And as Gwen is kind of like hiding from the crowd, because she doesn't want anyone to
recognize her, none other than Lady LeClerc shows up and she's like, what are you doing

(01:08:21):
here?
This is not a place for you.
And Gwen's like, what do you mean?
And I just love this.
This is so random when Bridget was like, did you follow me here?
And Gwen's like, no, I didn't.
I'm so glad you remember that.
I also thought that was the weirdest out of nowhere accusation ever.

(01:08:42):
And then they never circle back to it.
It's like, no, they do.
They do a tiny bit because Gwen's like, why would you ask that?
And she's like, girls follow me a lot.
Hello.
Bridget's just a girl magnet.
When Bridget's just like all the gay girls are just attracted to Bridget.
And I'm like, you know what?
Fair enough.
I get it.
Anyway, so Bridget's friends show up and they're like, hey, who's this?

(01:09:08):
And Bridget's like, this is my cousin, Margaret.
And it's so funny because Gwen is like this very tall, redheaded white lady and Bridget
is this short, tan, dark haired Asian lady.
And it's like, aha, sure.

(01:09:29):
Okay, Bridget's like, okay, we really got to get you out of here.
This is not.
This is not where you need to be.
But then as they're talking, they're kind of talking to these two of Bridget's friends
and this line took me out of it a little bit.

(01:09:51):
It was the sabbatical thing.
Do you remember that?
Remind me.
Okay.
So it's when they were talking about where they would like where Arthur Morgana and Merlin
would come from.
And I think it was, I think her name is Edna.
Oh, I remember this now.

(01:10:11):
Yeah, where are they?
Where's Merlin Morgana now?
They're on a sabbatical.
And she like doubles down at a couple of times in this chapter too.
Like she's like, see, they're at a sabbatical.
I'm like, I agree.
I agree.
That took me out of it.
Yeah, it was just, it felt like too Tik Tok-y kind of with that.

(01:10:33):
But do I, do I dare say, do I smell millennial humor?
Anyway, Bridget is just like, okay, time to go, Gwen.
And as they're trying to leave, they're kind of, they kind of get forced into doing this
little offering thing, which is the gun.
And so they come forward and they have like this bundle of sage and you're meant to say

(01:10:56):
one thing, which is like quote unquote good and one that's quote unquote bad about you
or something that you like and something that you don't like.
So Gwen being the girl that she is gets it mixed up and she goes, she's very consistent
with her embroidery, but she says she's a coward.
And Bridget puts in, I forget, that she's stubborn or something.

(01:11:19):
Yeah.
So it was that, I believe it's that she's stubborn, but she likes that she, I want to
say it's like something along the lines of like, she goes for what she wants kind of
thing.
No, she knows who she is.
She knows who she is.
That's it.
Yeah.
So that's what they offer up to Ms. Morgana and then Bridget drags her out of there.

(01:11:44):
She's just like, okay, we're getting out of here, princess.
Bye.
Okay.
Can we go to chapter 12?
I'll tell you what I wrote for this chapter, this summary after I read our summary here.
Basically Arthur wakes up a couple hours later and after Gabriel being done with reading
and Gabe's like, okay, I'm leaving.

(01:12:07):
And Arthur's like, oh, you're going to bed?
And he goes, no, I'm actually going to go see some birds.
I might need your help.
Do you want to come with?
And they're like, sure.
So Gabriel and Arthur go out to like, I forget what the place is called.
The falconry, I believe is what them holding the birds is called.
And they go in there and they check out this crow, which why did Gabriel also name this

(01:12:36):
bird Morgana?
I was like, gosh, this man does have a thing for Arthurian lore and they help with the
bird.
Arthur helps him check out this crow and making sure she is okay.
And as this happens, Arthur looks at Gabriel and he's like, oh, he's so handsome.

(01:12:58):
And he decides to kiss him and he does.
And it was kind of cute, but then Gabriel runs away and it is panicking.
And Arthur's like, shit, I'm about to get hang quartered and whatever else.
Hang drawn and quartered.
I'm fucked.
Remember what I said?
I relate to Gabriel.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:13:19):
He's like, oh, gotta go.
And Arthur falls out and he's like, hey, sorry, sorry.
I thought that was a moment.
Sorry.
And Gabriel's like, okay.
And then he kisses him back.
He pulls him in and kisses him back.
Also, it's a Y.A. moment, he pulls him in, kisses him, and then literally pushes him
back and releases him and has this little gay panic.

(01:13:43):
And I'm like, that's a Y.A.
But it's also so gay panicky.
I love it because I would have done the exact same thing.
So he runs away and then Arthur comes back to his quarters and Sydney's like, uh-oh,
you have a look on your face.
Did you kiss him?
And Arthur's like, maybe, and Sydney's like, fuck, why would you do that?

(01:14:04):
And that's kind of the end of the chapter.
But the only thing I wrote for this summary for this chapter in my book is birds and kisses
for Gabriel and Arthur.
Real.
Real.
That can sum it up.
That sums it up.

(01:14:25):
Moving on to chapter 13, so Bridget is able to get them out of the little festival and
they're walking outside after leaving.
It's a little tense because Gwen's like, I want her to touch my arm.
I want her to hold my hand.
I'm like, you know what, this is such like, this is the kind of bi panic I have whenever
I'm talking to a cute man or woman.

(01:14:47):
And I'm just like, I just want them to hold my hand.
I just want them to like, hold me.
You can't, can't, damn, never mind.
It's just mine.
It's just my experiences anyway.
Anyway, Bridget's like, oh, by the way, so if you want to hang out sometime, can I teach

(01:15:07):
you how to use a sword?
Because Gwen's like, how did you even like learn all this stuff?
And Bridget's like, yeah, my dad just taught me because, you know, I'm his only child,
so he wasn't going to have a son.
So he had to teach me.
And Gwen's like, yeah, no, originally when she asked for the sword.
And then she thinks about being hot and bothered with Bridget, like being really close to her.

(01:15:31):
And she's like, I changed my mind.
I want to learn how to sword fight.
And honestly, me, me, whenever I have a crush, I'm like, oh, never mind.
I actually do.
I actually do want to be as close to you as physically possible.
Also, sword fighting is just hot.
Okay.
So I remember one ever appeared to me, I was like, you want to learn how to fight?

(01:15:52):
Low key back when I was in my my pubescent, prepubescent, that's how you say that word,
years, I was like, what if I did fensei?
Because that's, I don't know what to be like other girls.
And of course, like who all has to fight tons.
I have never seen a fencing studio in my life.
But it's a dream of mine.
Just saying Lady of the Clear, if you got an older cousin to teach me how to sword fight,

(01:16:18):
let me know.
Yeah.
I hate that.
Anyway, she goes back to her room and is like dreaming of sweaty Bridget.
I love I love Gwen.
I love how just like she's just like, yep, I have my priorities.
I know exactly what I'm thinking of.
And it's all Bridget.
So she has breakfast with Gabriel.

(01:16:39):
And after that talk with Arthur about like, trying to be brave and being yourself and
who gives a shit she tries and fails to come out to Gabriel.
I say fails because it doesn't go well.
So Gabriel also being gay and also having his own closet as struggles, you know, from
kissing her fiance last night.

(01:17:03):
Doesn't respond well, doesn't really say anything and just kind of leaves and kind of brushes
her off and she is crushed.
It hurts her so bad.
And like this made me feel so bad and hurt for her so much.
I hated this scene.
I'm going to be real.
I hate it.
Yeah.
I get what they were going for.
And like, obviously, immediately we know having been in both perspectives, like what it's

(01:17:27):
about, like, I don't think any readers going to see this scene to be like, oh my God, he
hates her.
You know, like he's obviously like internalized.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think he to me, I'll be so real with you, I feel like despite that, right, we up
until this point, and this is just like my take on things, we like they've been so inseparable,

(01:17:51):
so tightly bound and like directly supportive of each other that it was incredibly jarring
to have these what will then soon be three chapters worth of Gabriel and Gwen just like
not communicating, being really like dodgy around each other.
And like, for me, that was like a really weird thing to reconcile with.

(01:18:11):
Because I can understand like, Gabriel having a weird reaction, but this to me felt a bit
off the mark of like, this felt like from this communication sake, rather than something
I felt would be in character based on my interpretation of them or visualization of them.
I don't know how you felt about it, but it like really took me out of it in a way that
was like, this feels unnecessary.

(01:18:33):
In this moment, I didn't love it.
But then it came to like understand it later with more context for later, which is when
which is the conversation that Arthur and Gabe have later, but we'll go over that when
we get get there.
Yeah.
So yeah, Gabe basically doesn't talk to her.

(01:18:57):
And mom is also apparently a little homophobic because Gwen asked like, Oh, what is it like
when two ladies love each other and her mom's like, ladies don't love each other.
They love their husbands.
Yeah.
So yeah, she feels very much alone.
And she snaps at Agnes because she because she does not do well with her feelings.

(01:19:22):
Anyway, it's time to go sword fighting with Bridget.
And she's like, Oh, I don't know if I want to do this.
But then Bridget's like hanging out like her workout clothes and she's like, OK, maybe
I do want to do this because Bridget's like right here.
So yeah, basically, Bridget takes her through some beginning things of sword fighting and
flirting.

(01:19:43):
They are flirting so hard.
But but Miss Gwen does not see that at all.
Anyway, while this is going on, it is it's a really interesting, like fight, not quote
unquote fight scene.
It's just very interesting, like how the author wrote it.
And I love that whole sequence of them just like sparring in a little area.

(01:20:08):
Anyway, Sydney and Arthur kind of show up and kind of ruin the mood.
And Arthur's like, Sydney, you should fight Bridget.
Sydney's like, I'm not fighting Bridget.
You can try it.
So Arthur does and ultimately fails because Bridget is a master swordswoman is like really,

(01:20:29):
really good at what she does.
And as that happens and Arthur's on the floor, everyone looks over because then guess who's
standing there?
None other than Gabriel himself, who does not want to be there.
And it's going into the next scene, which is Chapter 14, Gabriel basically gets goaded

(01:20:50):
into a little fight with Arthur.
It's a play fight.
It's nothing hard.
But while they're having their little sword fight, which sounds like a euphemism, it is
not.
Arthur is trying to flirt with him and Gabriel literally just like drops his sword and like
walks away.
And it's like, okay.

(01:21:11):
Gabe is having a lot of internalized homophobia right now.
And Arthur goes to follow him and tell Sydney to go fight Bridget for a bit.
And they go to the stables and Arthur's like, Gabe, talk to me.
What's going on?
Like you're acting really weird.
Like you don't want to talk about last night.

(01:21:32):
And Gabriel's just like in panic full like denial mode.
Denial is a river in Egypt, by the way, guys.
That is an old reference that I forgot about.
Yep.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
And yeah, Gabe basically storms off after this and Arthur then goes back to the little

(01:21:56):
arena where they were all practicing and it's like goes to Sydney who's just like sitting
there and he's like, what's up?
And Arthur's like, I like Gabriel.
I have a crush.
And he's like, oh, this is a really bad idea.
This is really bad.
Arthur, Arthur, we shouldn't do this.

(01:22:18):
And going on to the next one, chapter 15, as Ashlyn has said in our little notes, some
political shit is going on.
It's hunting day, basically, where a lot of the Royal cohort goes out and hunts and hangs

(01:22:39):
out and a lot of people are coming in.
Apparently the Queen and King have invited some lords there who have daughters and they
kind of want to be like, hey, Gabriel, she's a wife, but also, hey, Gwen, make some friends
with some girls.
And Gwen's like, I don't want to.
Also on top of this, we find out that Gwen really doesn't like birds and they equally

(01:23:02):
do not like her.
They are not her fan whatsoever.
And yeah, they are going out and Lady LeClaire shows up with Eden or Edna or whatever her
name was, one of her friends who worked in the falconry.
And they all go out and they're kind of just like talking and having some more witty banter

(01:23:26):
until Gwen gets kind of pulled away to talk to some high ladies.
But then, okay, so I will say this before we go into the next chapter.
It kind of weirdly got cut off because the ladies then were like, oh, what's happening
over there?
Because Bridget, there was an accident or something with the falcon.

(01:23:49):
And then Gwen rushed over there and then we go into the next chapter, which is chapter
16, which is weird that it's again in Gwendolyn's POV because this is the first time we've alternated
from Gwen to Arthur, Gwen to Arthur, Gwen to Arthur where it's Gwen, Gwen.
Yeah.
I want to know what your opinion of this was because it threw me off and I noted it even

(01:24:10):
because I was like, I don't like this.
Oh really?
I actually didn't even realize.
I'm not gonna lie.
I think, yeah, I don't know.
I just didn't even pick that out.
Nevermind.
I'll just be the one who that bothered.
It only bothered me.
Oh, sorry, you go.
No, you go.
I asked you.

(01:24:31):
That's fair.
I was actually, I will, I will take this as an opportunity to compliment Croucher on how
well they distinguish their characters.
Because for me, it was like, I mean, clearly I think like I didn't even notice the break
in like, you know, A, B, A, B, A, B, you know.

(01:24:51):
And I think to me it was because I felt like at least between Gwen and Arthur, their voices
were so distinct from one another that I truly felt like I was reading two different people,
which I think is an incredibly hard task when you are writing in first person because like
all the narrations like in your head and you don't necessarily get as much dialogue per

(01:25:11):
se between characters, but like those like, you know, like more physical acts and like
quirks will shine through.
And so I always like to commend authors when they can achieve that of like, yo, that character
feels like really unique and autonomous from Arthur.
Like I think his, his scenes are really good because he feels like his own person.

(01:25:34):
And I just like really, really commend that.
Yeah, that is, that is just to spin things into a positive, I suppose.
What?
Well, I'll actually hop on the positive train here because I also felt the exact same thing.
I was, this is one of the few books where I love the POV switches.

(01:25:54):
Yes.
And I think it was written very well.
I think it just threw me off originally and I just didn't love that.
It was just like, there was only a couple of sequences where this happened and I just
wish we were more consistent or like maybe chapter 15, 16, we're like brought together
into one chapter rather than split up into two.
But that's my only gripe because I 100% agree.

(01:26:15):
It feels like these two characters are just so dynamic and so different in their thinking
that you truly, it truly does feel like you're writing it as two different characters, which
is very hard.
So I do love how Croucher has done this.
It's very well done.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Anyway, we got chapter 16 and basically Lady LeClaire, we find out has kind of collapsed

(01:26:44):
due to some period pains, basically.
Basically her bleed, as she says, has come on and she's in a lot of pain, basically.
I'm sorry, I'm a dumbass, right?
I'm a dumbass.
When I first read that, like, oh, it's my bleed.

(01:27:06):
My like, like just, I cannot say it enough, my dumbass was remembering the fight with
the knife.
Oh my god.
Because Bridget got beat to shit.
And I was like, I always wondered that, like, how did she heal up so quick?
You know, I was like, there's really no discussion of like the healing process past the immediate

(01:27:26):
and this whole story takes place in the summer.
So with a pretty short span of time, I was like, oh, maybe like a wound is infected and
it's split open and it took me like reading another letter too.
I was like, oh, different kind of bleed.
I get you.
I need you.
The monthly, you know, the reoccurring.
I was just there and I was like, I don't watch enough Bridget clearly.

(01:27:52):
Yeah, I read a lot of historical fiction too, so I'm like, that makes sense.
They're calling it that.
So, oh yeah, got it.
But what's interesting is like, this is the first book I've really seen some representation
of like some sort of like more intense period pain, like specifically like PCOS or endometriosis

(01:28:14):
kind of pain.
And I was like, I loved it.
I loved it.
I was like, there we go.
I like that.
Cause Gwen like points out to me, cause well, mine's just like kind of messy and kind of
gross and like, but it's not, it's like uncomfortable, but it's not like anything that I'm doubling
over.
Like Bridget is literally just like, I feel like I'm going to die.
Yes.

(01:28:35):
As an endo girly, I was like, yes, my people, like, and they got the knife and I was like,
what you realized it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was no, I actually really love that line in particular as well, that exchange.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like, they also emphasize the point that like Bridget is a knight, like she gets beat
to shit on a frequent basis.
And the fact that it's taking her down, like really just further emphasize like how to

(01:28:59):
debilitating these things are and like having a really nasty, you know, cycle is, is just
so debilitating.
And I was like, yes, it can still be strong physically.
And also double it over.
And then also imagine going through all of that, not having any painkillers or having
like a heating pad or something.

(01:29:21):
I saw about that.
I think I would actually listen, I mean, this is the most joking way possible.
I would actually like take myself out.
Yeah.
I would not, I'm too hampered to pretty princess to have that happen.
Okay.
I'm sure.
Fair.
Fair.
I'd be like Merlin, give me some drugs.
I'm out.
Well, I mean, that's what happens basically.
Before we get there, Gwen basically goes to, tells Ada, be like, hey, go get some help.

(01:29:49):
I'm going to stay here with Bridget.
And as she does that, Bridget's like, hey, I need you to rub my back.
And Gwen's like, happily.
Gwen is just like, she's the one that's truly locked in.
She's like, I have my eye on the prize and that is Bridget.
And so she helps Bridget out by giving her a back rub, which is kind of hot.

(01:30:16):
And while this is happening, Gwen's like, hey, how did you learn about this?
How did you learn this help?
And she's like, oh, you know, basically an ex-girlfriend, an ex-girl I was courting.
And Gwen's like, you like women?
She doesn't say that out loud, but before she can like say anything, uh oh, guards show
up and it's just like, ah, just don't do it together.

(01:30:42):
Yes.
And as that happening, so they get her back to the castle and they call for the doctor,
but the doctor apparently has already seen Bridget and it's like, meh, it's just a normal
thing.
You know, like men assume.
So Gwen and this, and I love this.
This is when you, I think you see Gwen start to come into her own and like seeing some

(01:31:07):
of that bravery when she thinks she's a coward and like her being like, I want a second opinion,
go get the wizard.
Because she's just like, I cannot see the person I care very deeply about being in pain.
And I kind of love that.
Yeah.
That was really cool to see.
And the wizard comes and he's like, here, have some herbs.

(01:31:30):
You'll feel better now.
And Bridget's like, thanks.
And then she tells Gwen, thank you for sticking up for me.
I greatly appreciate it.
And it was like, ah.
That was, that was an internal scream.
That was when, um, that was when that tab was created.
It was this chapter specifically.
Listen, as a girly in a medical adjacent field, a medical advocacy, I'm big on it.

(01:31:53):
That's great.
Nothing, nothing gets an asexual wetter than medical advocacy.
You can quote me, you can put that on Twitter.
You can wear it on a shirt.
Can we put it on a shirt?
If you want.
Okay.
If anyone ever wants merch, that'll be a part of the first merch line.
I'll sign it with my feet.

(01:32:14):
Nope.
No feet, no feet, not allowed.
Sorry, I just keep laughing at you.
So yeah.
And, but within the same chapter, Gwen is now back in her room and she's kind of hanging

(01:32:40):
out.
Arthur has gone out again.
I don't think she knew Arthur went out this time, but he climbs back through the window
and he's like, he's trashed.
He is sloshed.
Um, and she's like amazed.
He made it up.
And as he's laying there feeling like a piece of shit, like, and he keeps like telling her,
like, he's better off dead and all of that.
And she's like, no, you're not.

(01:33:01):
You're really not that bad.
Uh, he looks at a cut in his arm and then he faints and Gwen's like, again, why is someone
else fainting on me?
And she then decides to like stay with him to make sure he's okay.
And takes his hand to kind of help get him through this.
Oh, there we go.

(01:33:26):
And going into chapter 17.
So Gwen and Art kind of wake up, it's a little bit later in the night.
They wake up to Agnes bringing in like tea and cookies and she's like, oh, I thought
everyone would have gone to bed.
And he's like, no, we're fine.
And anyway, he teases Gwen and he goes, yeah, she think we fell asleep, like making sweet,
sweet love.

(01:33:46):
And one's like, yeah, no way.
I was saying that's not what's happening.
Um, and they're just kind of sitting there having this like moment and she opens up about
what happened with Gabriel and finding out that Bridget is into girls cause she confessed
that she courted a woman and all of that.

(01:34:08):
And Arthur's like, no, this is, this is good.
Like you, like, this is good stuff.
Like this, this means it's moving forward.
And she's like, but I feel awful about all of this.
And Arthur's like, well, we don't even know like, you know, like what the cultists think,
like the Arthurian people, like, you know, they could have been doing their own thing
and being gay and all of that.

(01:34:30):
And she has with the Catholics and Arthur's basically just like, fuck the Catholics, they're
party poopers.
Um, so yeah, they're, they're just kind of talking about all of that.
And then Arthur opens up to Gwen about a failed past relationship with a guy named Gawain
who left Arthur.

(01:34:50):
Lauren, I'll let you know now Gawain is a character name from Arthurian Lore.
I don't know if you knew that one.
You knew that one?
Oh, you're muted.
Hello.
There you are.
Damn.
That's weird.

(01:35:10):
Um, I did, I wasn't aware of that.
Um, I didn't quite know who Gawain was, but the name sounded so familiar.
I'm assuming he was like a knight of the round table in BBC's Harlem.
Okay.
So he was, um, he's technically the nephew of King Arthur.
It's a long story.
There's a, he has a whole story called Gawain and the green knight anyway.
So yeah, failed past relationship for, um, for Arthur.

(01:35:34):
And he like opens up to Gwen about like how he really hasn't like kissed anyone or been
with people.
Like he's just, he just does it because he wants to like feel something.
Um, and she's like, but I wouldn't even be good at like kissing ladies, you know?
And so for practice they smooch and they're both just like, did you feel anything?

(01:35:58):
No, I didn't feel anything.
Do you feel anything?
No.
I kind of love that.
I love that little platonic like, yeah, no.
See.
So like, I like it in the sense that this is so teenager-y.
Right?
Like to me, I was like, this just screams like high school, early college behaviors.

(01:36:21):
You know, me who grew up very, very prudish and very within myself and very like, you
know, was flabbergasted at this scene because nowhere in my lifetime would it occur to me
to be like, let me just smooch someone to see what it's like.
Like I'm just so, I'm so like.
It's just because Gwen's like, I don't even know if I would love a man.

(01:36:45):
And she's like, do you think you could love a woman?
Arthur's like, no.
He's like, nah, bitch, I really, I really couldn't.
But it was so cute.
His response of like, but rest assured if I ever turn the leaf, you'll be the top of
my list.
And I was like, that's cute.
I love it.
Honestly, this was the turning point when I actually started really liking this book.

(01:37:06):
This was the chapter.
It was that moment when they actually started becoming friends.
And I was like, okay, I like the book now because I liked them actually being more friends
than being enemies.
Hence why I now like the trope enemies to friends.
I've decided I love that trope, especially if it's done well.
So yeah, I just, I love them.

(01:37:28):
I love their growing friendship and how they're both just kind of being more supportive of
each other and like watching that relationship kind of grow into this friendship.
And now we have another Arthur chapter because they're going into, he leaves Gwen's room

(01:37:48):
and he's, he's, he's like, I'll go to bed.
But then he like stops and he goes, I'm actually going to go talk to Gabriel real quick because
I need to have a word with this man.
Cause he's been avoidant and I'm not the avoidant type.
And he goes to Gabriel's rooms, knocks on the door and gave like opens the door.
He's like, what do you want?

(01:38:08):
And Arthur's like, we need to talk like right now.
And he's like, one, if you're panicked about being gay, don't be like, it's just chill.
Like you can be gay.
Just basically like be gay and do crimes.
Like you can do both.
And Gabriel's like, I can't because I'm going to be king and like, I have these morals and
all these things on it.

(01:38:30):
And Arthur's like, well, yeah, you can maybe feel that way.
Maybe don't treat your sister like shit though.
She came out to you.
She delved a lot of information to you that was personal and you just didn't do anything
about it.
And that made her feel like really bad.
And the self-loathing of Gabe being like, well, I didn't want this for either of us.

(01:38:53):
Like I didn't wish this upon anyone.
And Arthur's like, why do you think like you cannot be King Arthur?
No one is asking you to be.
You were the only person putting this pressure onto yourself.
So like, what would you want if you were king?
What do you want to do as a leader?

(01:39:15):
And Gabe's like, I don't think we should putting all our money to the armies.
I think maybe we should put some into like, I don't know, teaching people to read.
I don't know.
And Arthur's like, that's a good idea, bitch.
Lauren is stock computed.

(01:39:36):
I was trying to unmute.
I don't know what's going on.
Were you silent or were you silenced?
Exactly.
This is Pride Month Discord layoff.
Come on, Discord.
But yes, no, I was like me hiding in a library, socially avoided, gay.

(01:39:58):
I was like, damn, Gabriel, I need to copyright this book.
It's me.
Yeah.
I also love the line.
I put this, I rarely put quotes in my little books synopsis.
When Arthur said like, no, Gabriel said Arthur's name and Gabe literally says Arthur liked

(01:40:23):
how his name sounded in Gabriel's mouth.
I was dead.
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
I think it was because like, I'm thinking of like a hosier lyric or something.
Like he talks about how his name was like sounded sweeter in someone else's voice when
he heard it for the first time.
Anyway, they like start flirting and Gabe's like, why don't you have both?

(01:40:47):
And Gabe was like, yeah, why don't I?
And they decided to smooth it to you.
He goes, hey, don't say you're not thinking about me.
And Gabe just says, I have thought of you.
Not just this summer though.
And it's like, I self-combusted.
I was like, oh my God, I love it.

(01:41:09):
So then they make out a little bit, but then there's a little bump in the night, which
interrupts their makeout scene.
And Arthur's like, oh, that's not good.
So he pushes Gabriel into the bedroom, goes to open the door and what's this?
Bridget scanning over a dead man with blood on her sword.
And it's like, what?

(01:41:33):
I just wrote this.
You'll find this funny, Lauren.
I just wrote in here, Bridget, what the fuck are you doing?
LOL.
WTF.
What you doing there, Bridget?
Anyway, moving on to chapter 19.
Gwen is like basically scooped up from her room real quick and they all go into the family

(01:41:54):
quarters and it's revealed that there was an assassination attempt on Gabriel.
So someone was trying to come kill him and Bridget and Arthur are also brought into the
room and they're like, what happened?
And Bridget was like, well, I was trying to come give Gwen something.

(01:42:15):
And they're like, what were you going to bring her?
And she was just going to bring her a sword.
She was just going to gift her a sword.
And I'm like, you know what?
If my crush gifted me a sword, I would love it.
But they're like, why would you give a princess a sword?
And like, don't you think that'd be dangerous?
And they're like, she's like, no, she's learning how, but okay.
So, but the king's like, okay, I'm a debtor to you.
You saved my son.

(01:42:35):
Please go.
And it basically just a lot of like, how did this happen?
Who got in here?
And basically the royal, like one of the advisors, his name is Lord Stafford.
He's been here the whole time.
I just, this is when I realized he was a somewhat important character.

(01:42:56):
He comes in and he goes, oh, it was just a one-off thing.
Like we're fine.
It's definitely not due to the uprisings that are happening in the North.
Cause by the way, guys, there's been uprisings in the North this whole time with like cultists
and stuff.
So like tensions are rising for some reason.
It was probably like a one-time thing and all of that.
So Gwen and Gabriel then are sent off into Gabe's room where they have a, they have a

(01:43:27):
little talk, nothing too crazy.
It was just, I'm kind of reconciling and being like, Hey, I love you.
I still care about you.
Hope you're okay.
And they're like, yeah, I guess I am.
Anyway, chapter 20.
So Gwen and Gabriel are sent together into Gabriel's room to be protected together under

(01:43:49):
heavy guard.
And as they're in there, they're trying to have like this heart to heart and Gwen's like,
why don't you talk to me and all this?
And Gabriel's like, I'm sorry.
I said, like I said, flash did stuff like I really hurt your feelings.
But as they're talking, Gwen notices a bandage on the floor, which is none other than the
bandage that she used to wrap up Arthur's wound, which I forgot to mention.

(01:44:13):
And the other thing she did that.
And Gwen being the little Sherlock Holmes that she is, is like, bro, are you gay too?
And Gabriel's like, yeah, I'm gay too.
So they're both gay and they're like, shit.
So we're both in a tough pickle, aren't we?

(01:44:34):
But their sibling love has been reconciled and it's very sweet.
And I'm glad that they're feeling much better.
But I also love the line, Lauren, I think you remember this is, is there something in
the water here?
Like it just reminds me of the whole thing.

(01:44:54):
Turn the frogs, freaking frogs, okay.
That's so real.
That's like, that's pretty much like a marching band kid experience.
Yeah.
Where it's like, you know, sooner or later you're going to come after your high school
reunion and the entire band program is going to turn out queer.
So it's just how it is.
It makes sense.

(01:45:15):
Anyway, the next morning, Gwen goes, like gets up and goes to go check on Bridget and
like see if she's okay.
She finds her in the little sword arena, still in the clothes she was in the night before.
And Bridget is like hacking away at this, this sword practice dummy.
And Gwen's like, Hey, hey, I understand.

(01:45:36):
Like you went through some traumatic, are you okay?
And Bridget's like, no, I've never killed a man before.
And basically to get her to stop Gwen, like grabs a sword and stands in front of her and
Bridget's like, that's incredibly stupid and Gwen's like, well, I have your attention,
Bridget.
And Bridget's like, well, why do you want my attention?
She's like, I was worried about you dummy.

(01:45:57):
Anyway, so they like get into a little like mock banter and finally Gwen like pushes her
into like this little out cove and Bridget's like, what do you want?
And she's like, just shut up and let me kiss you.
And then they kiss.
And it was very sweet.
And I was like, let's go.
There's like just silent screams all around.
I was like kicking my little feet.
I was like, you go, you go, Gwen, you kiss that girl.

(01:46:22):
And on that we will end part one of Gwen and Art are not in love with our two gals kissing
and our two boys kissing.
We got we got kissing all around for everybody.
Hi, guys.
Hey.
Hey.
I have questions.

(01:46:47):
OK.
OK, so.
This is very important to me and there is a correct answer.
Who's your favorite coupling so far?
Who makes you just the happiest?
Can I be controversial?
Be controversial?

(01:47:07):
No.
I mean, Arthur and Gwen, not as a romance, not as like fully.
In terms of purely speaking, dynamics, I'm actually most invested in those two as friends
that I am necessarily the romance on either side, not to say that I don't like it, but
I love their dynamic.

(01:47:28):
And I think it's because we're in their heads.
So often, and as we talked about earlier, like they feel like such distinct people that
I think play off of each other really well.
I mean, they're foil characters in a sense.
And I really love any of the interactions we got with them, because I mean, to be completely
honest, we get like a whole lot necessarily.

(01:47:49):
I mean, the grand scheme of things to have them like directly have like these big scenes
together like they do with their love interests.
And so I always was like most I found myself most enjoying the book when it was them two,
which I think is a bit is a big testament to me being like an enemies to lovers, enemies
to friends, girly.
I think that's very much in line with my track record.

(01:48:09):
But I think the story the story is really strongly upheld by that basis of friendship,
which I really like that messaging if that is some sort of messaging to be had.
Mm hmm.
I like Bridget and Gwen.

(01:48:33):
I thought you'd made such a poignant like great point about, you know, friendship and
like growing and enjoying the characters, especially when they were friends.
I agree with that.
But also if I'm talking romantic couples here, Gwen and Bridget have my heart, just like
the subtle thing of like this awkward little like Gwen being this awkward girl, like not

(01:48:54):
knowing how to approach or talk to women, which I feel I relate to that way too hard.
And Bridget just being like this cool suave thing.
But her I here's the thing.
I'm a sucker.
Everybody knows this so far.
I am a sucker for a character who is like I am this big, tough character who no one

(01:49:17):
can break except for you.
So that is that's my that is the cross I bear.
So yes, I'm going to say Gwendolyn and Bridget are my two is my favorite coupling as of right
now.
Do you have a favorite scene from the first half of the book?

(01:49:43):
Now, I know cities talked a little bit about hers, but Lauren, what was yours?
Let me actually glance back here to jog my memory of everything we talked about.

(01:50:06):
You know, I do think I strongly enjoyed.
That was a really nice scene because up until that point, I think that was for me, at least
the first time I like really felt their connection, like their romance.
And so I really liked that was very understated, which I think was a very nice contrast how

(01:50:28):
author had been the entire story is like, it's just a very like, in your face overstated,
like, you know, a big personality, essentially.
I also loved it's not necessarily like a singular scene, but I really enjoyed the tournaments.
Anytime we got to glance into the tournament was really fine.
And to that point, actually, which we had seen a little bit like more of the action

(01:50:52):
of like what was going on in the tournaments and a little more of like Bridget's prowess,
because I feel like I don't know if you all caught this, but in the very beginning of
the book, they talk about how the previous summer Bridget like slayed, like he was basically
in the finals of the past tournament.
And I really didn't get to feel Bridget's actual strength because she just lost so quickly

(01:51:12):
to the knife and her like jousting scene was over like that.
I didn't feel her strength until the second half of the book.
And that was something I was really craving.
So any like glimpse of that was also a really fun addition.
But Cindy, did you have any others apart from the scene?
My other favorite was when Arthur woke up from like his little drinking thing and Gwen

(01:51:35):
was there and they were like just talking and them kind of being more instead of like
being like, oh yeah, we're just doing this because we're in a truce and because we have
to then genuinely being like when asking for support from Arthur and Arthur being like,
do what you want, be gay, do crimes.

(01:51:57):
And then just developing more of that friendship.
I will say I love their friendship and how it's building.
And I think that was a very strong aspect of the book too.
So I will say that is my other favorite scene from this half of the book is them just growing
closer together as friends.
I love it.

(01:52:20):
How do you feel about Gabriel's reaction when Gwen tells him about her feelings, not necessarily
for Bridget, but that whole scene in general?
We already know.
We already know.
Listen, I'll speak a little more candidly about it, right?

(01:52:41):
As someone who relates to Gabriel in many ways that we will go into, I, for one, in
my own personal navigations with like very similar things, despite how I may feel internally,
never once had I like had that reaction to somebody else's like, you know, coming out.

(01:53:02):
And so for me, it was almost like a jarring moment of like, not only did I in my personal
interpretation feel like that was a bit of an overreaction for the sake of plot rather
than character, but also was like, it was jarring for me of like what we've been told
of Gabriel so far of like, oh, he's, you know, always so tight with his sister, always like,
you know, nervous about, you know, living up to expectations of the throne and like,

(01:53:25):
yada yada yada.
I was like.
Man.
I was like, this one hurts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And for me, just because I was almost inadvertently hurt by that scene, I really wanted a bigger
apology from Gabriel, which I'm going to be real.
It felt to me more of like a coming of like, I understand where you're at.
Let's bygones be bygones.

(01:53:46):
And I was like, no.
You deserve to apologize for that.
But that's just be big on my high horse.
I, I mean, it was, it's heartbreaking, especially.
Especially coming out to someone and being.

(01:54:09):
It's so scary to come out and to tell other people, Hey, so I know we all assumed one
thing, but I'm something else and I don't want you to hate me because of it.
It's so scary to open up about something so deep and personal about yourself to someone
and then them not have the reaction you expected them to.

(01:54:35):
And I'm see now I'm playing the devil's advocate here instead of you, Lauren.
I think this was an unfortunate manifestation for Gabriel in all of the stress and the pressure
he is built upon himself so much so that he was not able to have a positive reaction.

(01:54:58):
And I don't know.
I honestly, it did kind of feel aligned in his character for me personally, from this
point forward, I think because now we're understanding, we learn more and more as we go in, like all
of the things he is having to learn and all those pressures.
And I'm like, okay, wait, now his reaction makes a little more sense in the moment.

(01:55:21):
It broke my heart.
I mean, it didn't feel great reading it.
I felt for Gwen and I kind of agree.
I think Gwen was much more of the bigger person in the recollection than Gabriel because I
would have probably had a similar reaction to you, Lauren, as being like, no, you need

(01:55:42):
to apologize because you really hurt me.
But I think Gwen is just being more mature and better at handling being like, yeah, we're
just going to agree.
We're both in weird places.
So we're just going to just know that secret and just to keep moving forward.

(01:56:11):
And my last question is, at this point, everyone is pretty much coupled up and happy.
We have like some political stuff going on, but screw political stuff.
What on earth do you think we have left in the last half of this book?
I'll be honest, I got to this point and I had no idea.
Okay, so let me give you guys my theory.

(01:56:34):
I thought Bridget was a part of the cultists somehow.
I was like, that could be a strong thing.
So at this point in the book, when I was here, I was like, Bridget could be a part of the
cultists.
I was like, being a spy, kind of, or just like believes in that stuff.

(01:56:57):
And then she like, no, is like not into it.
But yeah, I didn't know how all of the political stuff plus our couples being together, how
all of that would conclude.
So I was very interested to see by this point where the story was going to go.

(01:57:27):
I actually cannot say my thoughts because I ended up being correct.
Oh, look at you.
I had a little, little, that's a Raven moment.
Very early into our part two, which I will talk to talk about when I get there, where

(01:57:48):
I was like, Oh, so yeah, no, definitely.
So and so is implicated in such and such.
And I was right.
And so yeah, but I had one too around this time, but I won't tell.
I won't speak on it either because I also don't want to spoil the rest of this review.

(01:58:08):
And anyway, with that, we are going to conclude part one of Gwen and art are not in love by
Lex Croucher.
Tune in next time where you'll get to part two, which is going to be the rest of the
book.
And we get to finish that all up and keep celebrating pride and all of that and talking
about this amazing book.

(01:58:29):
If you would like to hear more from us or see what else we have in store, we've got
all of our socials, which are going to be Instagram, tick tock, Twitter.
I know we have a do we have a twitch?
No, yes.
I don't remember.

(01:58:49):
Yes.
And we also have that new fable account.
So if you would like to follow us there and join our book club so you can see our reactions
in real time.
Before we record, you can go on there and go check us out and follow along with what
we decide to read next and our pH.
If you would like to listen to more to what we have, you can listen to us on Spotify,

(01:59:12):
Apple Music and kind of wherever you get your podcasts.
Other than that, I will say good night to you all.
And you guys have a great time.
Bye flamboyant family.

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