Episode #105 Booker T

Ray's Boom Boom Room is back for the new year, and talk with WWE legend, Booker T, to talk about his life and career in wrestling.

"
Subscribe to Ray's Boom Boom Room on YouTube: youtube.com/raysboomboomroom

Follow Ray on
Facebook & Instagram: @realboomboommancini
Twitter: @realboomboom

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hello, Welcome to another round toraise Boom boom room. I'm your host,
ray Mancini here with my Ace cornerMan cut Man, my case um.
Our first show to New York,New York, New Year, New
Year. It's been a while,it's for sure. Uh yeah, welcome
back to another round to raise boomoomroom. I hope that you all had

(00:34):
a wonderful holiday, Happy New Year, beautiful Christmas, blessed Christmas. Um.
I bought this man. We're insixty degree weather in the middle of
January and Youngstown Warren, I meanover the weekend. Yeah, I bought
that record. I don't know ifthat's a good thing, because man,
you know, the world's gone awry. You know, it's a good thing

(00:54):
for us. But it's snowing likecats and dogs in like in middle of
America, you know, Texas allthe way up from like the Dakotas all
the way down. So but anyhow, very special guests today, Very special
guests, very special. I'm soexcited because I met my friend earlier to
shire, but we're both working forFox. But before we get to him,
I'm gonna do a quick rundown alittle bit, uh about the boxing

(01:17):
World Okay, Big Pit view inUH in February twenty second between uh Deontay
Wilder and Tyson Fury. It sorematch up a fight last year UH when
most people thought Tyson Fury beat himand I'll box him. But but Deonte
Man Deonte is you know when hisbrothers that you're knock a building down if

(01:41):
he hits it. So he droppedTyson Fury twice and the last time was
in a twelfth round, which gothim to draw. But all but everyone
thought I still die. He losteven though he dropped him twice. They
thought he lost so many early roundsthat even though you know you did get
knocked down at your concert two rounds, most people thought he lost eight to
four. But because the way hedropped him, it got a draw,

(02:02):
and the clamor for the rematch wasin the works. And you know,
I gotta tell you, man,I got another working for Fox. I
got to know uh Deonte Deonte Man. That's when the hardest punching brothers I
ever saw for anyway class. Hemight be a heavyweight Tommy Hearns and Tommy

(02:23):
Hurns probably the best pomp for poundpuncher I ever saw at any weight pound
for pound. I'm just glad aboutthe heavyweight division again. Yeah, yeah,
you're right, you're right. Everyweit's been you know, been well,
it's been a long time. Sowe had an American heavyweight, Yes,
says Mike Tyson. There's been noAmerican heavyweight to bring such excitement.
Yeah, that's that's why people aretalking. Yeah. And and Deonta sixty

(02:46):
seven, you know, bull blindsthat right hand. And and one of
the boxing announcers, Steve Kim,boxing writer, boxing announcers Steve Kim,
said it best. He says,he calls it the equalizer. He calls
that right and equalized the racer,not eracer. Thank you the eracer.
He says. No matter what's happenedto the fight, if Deonta hit you

(03:07):
with that right in, it coulderase the whole equation, changes everything.
So yeah, so any yeah,um, so he's fighting Tyson Fury.
Coming up on the twenty second ofFebruary, first pay per view of the
year this Saturday, Change eighteenth,we got Julian Jay Rock Williams defending his
super middleweight title, his first titledefense since beating uh Tony Hartt. That

(03:30):
Tony, I'm Jared Heard last acouple of months ago, um and which
was an upset. Most people thoughtJared Heard was going to beat the Jay
Rock and Jay Rocks from Philadelphia sortof fights back in Philly and it'll be
this Saturday night on Fox. AndUM, okay, that's that's that's the
rundown in New Ord of Boxing.All right, But okay, let me

(03:53):
give you a little bit of rundown next our next guest. Look mom,
having young my kids born in thenineties, growing up in the nineties,
you become a wrestling fans, bythe way. But our friend,
our next guest, has had afour decade, four decades uh career.
He started in nineteen eighty nine.He made his pro debut. But he

(04:16):
looked he still looks like he couldwrestle. Now he choke you what I
hope because he made his pro debutnineteen and nine. It's fourth take.
But he was born in Louisiana.I love this planed dealing. I love
that plane dealing. Louisiana plane dealing, plane dealing, baby plane dealing.

(04:36):
But he grew up in Houston,Whoston, Texas. Now he grew up
in Houston, and um, butI'm gonna give you a little run down
of his career, which could takea while on itself, but I love
his ring names. No, no, no, Black Snow. I gotta
get that one. Whack Black Snowbecause he's all over you, all over

(04:57):
like snow. Um King book Booker, Kim Booker. But my favorite Gi
Bro, Gi Bro better that.And then there's another Kel. I asked
what the Keil cover of. That'san interesting name. We're gonna find out
Bray Bray dude in nineteen eighty nine. All right, it's best. I
just wrote stuff down. Best knownfor wc W World Championship, Wrestling,

(05:19):
World Champion, WWF, WWEH andalso Total NonStop Action TNA. I never
never heard of, never heard toplay on t I guess because I have
no clue. But I told you'regrowing up my kids they are big bucks
and my kids loved this text.Our next guest him talking about him until

(05:43):
I met him. Oh. Heheld thirty five championships, thirty five world
championships, thirty five belts in differentyou know, organizations, different weight classes.
He's the most decorated wrestler in WCWhistory, holding have held twenty one
titles, including a record six WCWWorld Television Championships, a record eleven w

(06:09):
c W World Tag Team Championships,ten with the Harlem Heat. I love
that the Harlem me with his brotherStevie Ray, Stevie Ray Huffman, and
one in the WWF with Test,just Test. I guess that's it's four
different words as it's an Acronymy Okay, there you go. I didn't know

(06:30):
the Harlem Heat was recognized by ww E as the greatest acquisitions ever.
I would agree by w W sois a hall of famous. Of course,
Man ten times over come on.Now our next guest, my good
friend. I'm telling man and Ilove because we were, we understood,

(06:54):
because we're just close to same.And and our next test was born March
first, so he's also a fecist. I mean the Pisces. I'm I'm
I'm March fourth. I'm March fourth, so a couple of days apart,
a few years apart. I'm notgonna say who's older or younger. I
think we know you think we haveto know I'm older. We don't have

(07:14):
to say I'm oldered. Let methank him any our next guest, I
don't know if I could do it, I can't do this like w W
Corner. Thank the gi Bro,the team Booker, the Black snow Booker.
Tek Are you doing, brother?How are you doing? Oh?

(07:39):
I can't thank you enough for beingon the show, honest to God.
When we met the past year,man, I told my kids I met
you. They wont ape shit manoh pop Booker, team oh Man.
So I mean, look, Iappreciate, I appreciate you. I appreciate
your I appreciate your your your yourart because and I appreci I think you

(08:00):
are and you know we need afew use apartments. You're still doing it.
I couldn't think of it. Icouldn't imagine doing that. I can't
imagine throwing my body around. Andjust I just I'm having fun. I'm
having fun. I mean I don'tget in the ring too much these days.
But I got I got a wrestlingschool, um, and I got

(08:22):
about fifty students that I solved,you know, getting back to and uh,
you know, letting them live theirdreams and whatnot. But but I'm
living a dream that I never had. My brother wanted to wrestle, and
I just followed my brother around life. And I am thirty years later.
You know, I'm still having fundoing my thing. Now. You're you're

(08:43):
large family, what thirteen kids orten kids? Ten kids? Actually,
I'm the youngest of eight h fourboys, four girls, and uh you
know so. But when you're theyoungest in the family, man, you're
always looking for meal. Yeah,well you ain't hungry. No, I
mean you're hungry for success, don'tget wrong. But thank god you're able
to feed yourself a little better thesedays, thank god. But book,

(09:07):
Yeah, you know, now,let mess up. Um. One of
the best movies obviously The Wrestler.My friend Mickey did it. What did
you think of movie? Did youenjoy the movie? Did you do?
Was it? Was it close tolife? I mean it's got to be
close to what you guys live onthe road and stuff. No, Actually,
that movie was so well put togetherbecause it showed you the real,

(09:33):
gritty, um raw form of professionalwrestling. Um. You know, a
lot of professional wrestlers don't get intoit to be you know, to for
the money. A lot of themget into it just because they love it
so much. And Mickey Rock heplayed that role better than anybody ever could
have played that role. And there'sso many guys like that. Myself.

(09:54):
I didn't want to be one ofthose guys. Uh. I love the
entertainment, I love the art,but um, at the end of the
day, I want to make somemoney and be able to take care of
my family. Yeah. No,no, absolutely. You know one thing
I found out about that I realizedabout that movie because Mickey, I said.
I was with Mickey the day thathe realized it was a growth project.
We were down in Miami Beach andMickey talking he saw him doing this

(10:16):
movie and for Darren Aronowski, youknow, called the Wrestler. Yeah,
you know, yeah, man,I gotta you know, I gotta start
training forward, men, I gottaget ready for this. So I was
actually there, we were together inMiami Beach when he got to call it
that it was a god project,and man, he was fabulous. Man,
I just you know, but youknow, so many of those types
of stories, the guys being onthe road from the family. I mean,

(10:37):
you know, you know you're onthe road. How many days I
mean days a week or you're onthe road, I mean pretty much.
It's like no, I mean Imean back then, um, we were
on the road probably three hundred daysa year, and uh, we're pushing
ourself close to three hundred days ayear. That's what promotional stuff. That's
what you know on sales. Youknow, that's wrestling. Um, that's

(11:01):
what going doing autographs, that's everything. I think Jake the Snake said it
best, um and in his inhis autobiography, the First One, he
said, you know, when yousigned that contract, you are obligated to
work every day and you gotta justput your hard hat on and get your
boots on, tight man, andget ready. You know. It's like,

(11:24):
look when I turned pro. Iturned pro at eighteen, right.
I was fortunate I turned pro.I was able to win the title young
at twenty one, and I gotout. I was retired at twenty four
because I had no love for thesport, you know, because my body
couldn't do it. Mentally, Ijust had no love for the sport.
Um. You guys unroad so muchlonger. But the one thing my father
taught me was you know, myfather being the next fighter. Of course,
he said, Raymond, I'm notI'm not gonna tell you what to

(11:46):
do when not do, he said, but if you had, but I'm
advising you do not get into asteady relationship, because what happens is the
career isn't successful or the relationship isn'tsuccessful. But what usually happens both aren't
successful. Yeah, you're you knowmy lady. I said that your career
has to be your lady, andit was that was man, when you're
done with that, he said.But for me, it worked. I

(12:07):
didn't have a steady girlfriend everything untilI got through my frame. That's got
to be rough on a guy forrelationships when you're on the road. Three
But you know, I went awayfor period of time and then I was
back for a period of time,so you know, you know when your
schedule is, you know when you'refighting. But I was fighting three or
four times a year, going totraining camp six weeks before. So you
basically, you know, I don'tknow, you know, a couple of

(12:28):
months, three months or four months, you're you're training and fighting, but
the rush you're you're running your home. Basically true, But it's gonna be
hard for the type of relationships whenyou're you know, when you're on the
road that much. It is,Uh, you know, I tell you
tell your story, Uh you know, my my I was I got married
like in two thousand and Uh,my, my my wife. You know,

(12:52):
I was on the road a wholelot. And and she didn't understand,
you know a lot of times afteryou finished restling's late only place that's
open up and they're keep it openfour years, the bar where you can
get something to eat and whatnot.And I would call her and and say,
hey, um, I'm at thehotel. I'm at the bar getting
something to eat. And she wouldgo, at the bar, you know

(13:13):
what I'm gonna I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm getting something to
eat. So she thought I was, you know, at the bar,
you know, drinking and eating andwhatnot. And uh and I and I
asked her one day, I say, uh, what do you think I
go when I leave the house onon on Friday and don't come back into
Monday. And she said, um, I don't know where you go.
And uh. I went out fora divorce that day. And uh,

(13:39):
I've never seen her again. Butmy my my wife, did I married
to Now we've been together for fifteenyears. Strong. She's she's former Miss
Black America. She's former Dassel forJames Brown. She knows what it's like
to be in the entertainment business.She knows how hard it really is being
out there in the room. Andshe supported me every single day of our

(14:01):
relationship in his work. And didyou have to wonder why could I meet
her twenty years before, ten yearsbefore, because you know, you know,
but you know the funny thing isif she was a dance for James
Brown, I ever tell you thestory, true story. I'm training in
nineteen eighty four, I'm training inTahoe for my title defense. James Brown's

(14:24):
performing at I'm at not the samehotel I'm I'm saying to the South Shore.
We go to north Shore at Caesar'sNorth Shore to go see the show
Love James Brown horns of working Manshow business. So, I you know,
so James beat So actually got Chestto meet him after the show.
He was great man, big fightfans, big five guy. But during
the show, I you know,forgot what song it was, you know,
one of the best one of hisfavorite song, best song on one

(14:46):
of the biggest hits. I'll say, he goes, who, Yeah,
I said Bubbo in the house.And I said to my guy, did
he what did you just say?He said, yeah? Who? I
said, Bubbo in the house.We looked at said he said, yeah,
yeah, I was, I wasthe cool blame Brown called me out
during the song. Yeah yeah,boomom in the house. Oh afterwards,

(15:09):
I got, I got, Igot them gonna meet the man. He
was such a good brother man.He was such a good man and I
just admired. But you know whatyou hear about HER's workomended show business,
the truth man because he's on theroad all the time and he's putting it
out there for the fans all thetime. That's when you see concerts people
like yourself. You're a but you'reputting it out there for the fans every

(15:31):
days. Your body's breaking down,your body when your body you're sick physically
sometimes mentally, and you still gottago put on the show. That's acting.
I tell people, I mean you'rea you know what, you know
what it's like. I mean boomboom. I mean, like you said,
you retired early because you put yourbody through so much. Um.

(15:52):
You know, the human the humanbody really is not made for them to
go through what we as men putourselves through. It's not meant for that.
But we do it because of thelove. We do it because of
the nature of the beast. Wedo it because of the test our shrowd,
as well as the legacy and whatwe want to do for our families.
It's so much go into putting ourselvesthrough. What we put ourselves through,

(16:14):
man and us, it's fun ofthe love of you know, just
being alive. I think more importantthan anything. And you want to entertain.
You know, the fact that peoplesay, man, I'll watch you.
You're my favorite fighter. You putyou put on a show. I
remember your fights and they'll tell youa specific fight. You made me feel
that it made me feel a certainway. You made me believe I could
do what I want to achieve inlife. That's the greatest feeling in the

(16:36):
world. And that's the greatest.But you don't realize you can how you
can move people and touch people throughsports or through your through your career,
or through your you know, yourwhatever you're able to do that you move
people in a certain way that thatinspires them. That's that's the greatest thing
for me. Well, I thinkI think you know, you know,
the ones that really understand you knowthat they understand that it's not about them.

(16:57):
You know, we only live oncethat we know of and to be
able to leave something you know thatsomeone else can draw inspiration on in this
life. I think it's very,very important. You know. It's funny
you said earlier when your first wifesaid to you, blah blah blah,
you know you're on the road.What what did she think she was signing
up for it? And I don'tknow, And I don't mean any respect

(17:18):
to her, but I'm telling peoplein general. I have friends of mine
that going through you want to goto and I think the wife said this,
I said, what did they theywere signing up for it? You
know on Front Street? Was you'resigning up for? Well? I mean
sometimes I think they think it's avacation. I think they think, um,
you can see a life from theoutside looking in, and you can
say, man, that's so glamorous. Man, it got to be so

(17:40):
great. But but the statement isactually true. It really is. It's
lonely at the top. It's lonelywhen you're out there and everybody want a
piece of you. It really isn't. And when you don't have someone who
understand that, it could really beuh, it could be hell. Yeah.
You know, you know it's funnybecause when I went to my own
divorce and Max, we don't think. We get along great, and we

(18:02):
love each other, and you know, we raised three beautiful babies and and
we're all cool and everything. It'sall love and love is in the air
now you know what I mean.It's all loved. But I'll never forget.
She said to me, you don'twant to go to she goes.
You know, I don't you knowwho you are. I don't want that
anymore. And I said, youdon't want it, but you knew who
I was on front Street. I'venever changed. I've been the same guy.

(18:25):
You want it, you would loveit? Then, you know,
okay, I just what are yougonna do that? What are you gonna
say that? You don't want that? Now you know it's I'll never forget.
A friend of mine said set ofthe line because they heard of one
of the college coaches say it atone time, and one of the college
coaches got fired up, got fired. Football coach got fired and said,
coach, where do you fire?Say they fired you? What were the

(18:47):
reasons? They said? I don'tknow, but to say they said the
same reasons they hired before they firedbefore. I mean, you're intensity you're
all. But also I just say, I love that life. But it's
true, same reasons they hire youfor it, they fired for So.
Yeah, you wanted that. Youwanted that when we first got married,
but now then you don't want that, don't more so you know, you
know, life is tricky, man, Life is tricky, especially with women,

(19:10):
you know. But I'm so lucky, like you said, now,
I got two beautiful kids, nineyear old twins. You know, like
I said, I wrote, Iwrote a huge check, you know,
and have friends marriage. But Ican tell you I can, I can
honestly tell you it was worth everyday of course, you know, like
I said, you know, Imean, thank god you get through it.

(19:33):
But I'm just it was one ofthe things that kind of baffed me.
Well, you know, you knowyou don't want that now when you're
that person you are. Yeah,yeah, I said, I said,
I'm the same. She said,yes, and I want different, she
was, I'm not, You're thesame. I'm not. Okay, I
get it. Kids, get hungget hugy with you. Woman, no

(19:56):
no, no, and book youdon't mind just jump in us. But
all right, all right, let'sstart. Let me start here. Take
me back to the beginning. Becauseif if you grew up in the eighties,
you knew who Ivan Putsky was,the Polish power. And he starts
a wrestling school and you guys decideto go go to it, tell me

(20:19):
why and if you learn anything fromhim that you kind of took throughout your
career. I mean, I thinkwhat I learned from Ivan Pusky more important
than anything would just you know,wrestling is entertainment and Ivan Pusky um ever
since I was a kid watching IvanPunsky, he was an entertainer. It
wasn't about wrestling with Ivan. Um. I remember this one thing where Ivan

(20:45):
used to, you know, goin the ring and it would put like
bricks on his stomach and he wouldlet someone take a sledgehammer and break him.
You know that's how that's that's andit was just showing, you know,
how strong he was. It wasn'tabout wrestling or anything. It was
about entertaining fans. So that's whatI took away from from Ivan Pusky um
um. But but but as forus, did the school goal it was
something my brother wanted to do.Like I say, Um, I just

(21:07):
got out of prison. Actually,um not that long before that, and
um, and my brother was justtrying to, you know, show me.
You know, hey man, itis something better about here, So
let's try this. And I didn'thave the money to do it. But
a guy that I was working for, that my brother had, got me
the job. He sponsored me togo to the wrestling school, and um,

(21:29):
it just seemed like deja vu.It seemed like a place that I
had been my whole life, notever having played sports in my life before.
Um, I found myself at home. Did you speaking of prison,
did you did that change you ordid you kind of learn a lesson or
were you the kind of the sameperson coming out as when you went in?
No? No, I think Ithink I was the same person,

(21:51):
uh coming out going in, Imade a mistake. I found myself,
you know, in a position wereyou know, when when you're always always
equated to like being in a whirlwind, you know, and it's just spending
and spending and spending. You know, the voor Texas is so strong you
can't get out of it until itstops. And I was the vord tex

(22:14):
to were you know, I wasdoing a lot of wrong things, hanging
with the wrong people, and itwasn't gonna stop into boom. Everything came
crumbling down. And when it camecrumbling down, like I said, I
found myself looking at a five yearssentence in Texas Department of Corrections. Uh.
And it was one of those thingsthe world. I knew that was
a place that I did not wantto ever see again. But on the

(22:38):
other hand, it was the experienceI think I needed at that time.
You know, it's funny time yousay that, because a lot of guys
I know got jammed up one away. But it's the greatest lifeless they said,
people go to college. I wentto college, you know, but
I got a good whole different typeof knowledge. And I you know,
and I understand because look, someguys that you know, people could like

(22:59):
say, get caught up in thefoolishness whatever it is. It's a period
of time. And but but youknow they learned from the next person.
You look, we've taken your lifesense obviously. Well, I don't think
you know a lot of people letthose moments define them. They find themselves
and they go they feel like theycan't go any further than that. But
I just never felt like that momentwasn't going to define who I was going

(23:22):
to be in life. It wasa mistake. I knew it was something
that I had to pay for.I knew I had to go out there
and you know, earn trunch Stallover again. Because I did have an
X on my back. I didn'texpect people to, you know, give
me a chance. You know,uh, you know, without saying you
know my character? You know whatI mean? That was my It was
up to me to actually show youwhat kind of person I was because I
was a criminal, you know whatI mean. And in order for me

(23:45):
to prove myself, I had toput in the work right. Well,
I mattered that and you certainly havebecause man, I know, people talk
around Fox. They want to knowhow beloved you are and all that,
and that's a beautiful thing. Peopleof the content and your character. People
talk about what a stand up guyyou are. And I'm married, imried.
I admired that morning. I couldtell you because I appreciate more so

(24:07):
now because I didn't know your backgrounduntil you know, I looked up around
it and oh no shit, youknow, it happens, happens. Did
he was there anything when you werewrestling? Was there anything a time when
you were like I don't know ifthis wrestling is for me or was it
always kind of what you wanted todo. It wasn't something I wanted to
do at all. When I gotinto it, I loved it. Um.

(24:30):
It wasn't a moment in wrestling warI said, I don't know if
this thing's gonna work out for meor not. From the beginning, I
think I knew how good I was. Never thinking that I was going to
be famous or anything like that,but always knowing that I was going to
be famous, if you can understandwhat I mean. It wasn't I didn't
get into it for the money oranything like that. It was a hobby.

(24:52):
It was an escape. It wassomething that I did better than I
did anything in my life, youknow. So I was like, Wow,
I'm having so much fun being ableto escape from, you know,
my side of town and go tothe other side of town, hang out
with the white guys, put onmy boots and act like a wrestler.
Well, you know, it's funnyyou say that, because obviously you're better.

(25:15):
You're better, You're a better wrestler. You were a crook. That's
a good thing. That's a goodthing. A good thing you know,
you know, but but you knowat funny when you said always knowing that
I wanted to be know I wouldbe famous. But I always knew i'd
be famous. I know what youmean by that. In your mind,
you know you're gonna succeed success peoplewas a success. Success and fame are

(25:36):
two different things. I tell peopleat all time. You're not defined by
the fame. You can't help frombeing famous, but your success you could.
You could you control your success.Fame you got no control over.
You know, if two people knowyou're two famous, all different thing.
When people say, oh you letyou know, you're like being famous,
not like being successful famous, justresidual success. Right, But it's the

(26:02):
same thing, you know, partof it. You know. I always
said, uh, you know whenI when I got into the wrestling business,
I said, like I said,it was like deja vu, um
and I always knew how good Iwas. And and then I had a
anchor as well, you know,with my brother Um him and I being
a tag team, I had somebodyto watch my back, you know,

(26:23):
so I was able to actually reallygo all the way over the top,
you know, much further than Iprobably would have gone if I was just
by myself, and my brother alwaystell me more importantly than anything. Man.
He used to before I ever knewwhat the word meant, you know,
he used to tell me that Iwas prolific, and um, I
was better than all the guys inthe locker room. My brother used to
tell me that. Everywhere that wewent, my brother used to tell me

(26:45):
that, and um, and Ibelieved it, you know, just because
he was my big brother and hetold me that. And he's the guy
that I looked up to. You. You know a book, you just
said a key thing I tell people. My father used to tell me,
said, others can doubt you andyou'll still succeed, but you can never
ever doubt yourself and ever succeed.He said, you go always. Guy's

(27:06):
gotta be with you. You gottabelieve it. Don't matter when nobody says
to you, because right man,you're gonna be knocked your whole life.
And you know, I was alwaysthe smallest kid, but I was a
good athlete. I never I neverthought of anything. Any of what people
said affect me. In fact,it only spurred me on. You don't
think I'm gonna be okay? Youknow, my high school coaches. But
I told him I was gonna giveup football and focus on fighting. Be
a fighter. You get punchdrunkers andyou can't make it as a fighter,

(27:29):
but at least you, I said, Okay. Now, a lot of
young kids, oh my god,as he said I came, I said,
okay, I'm gonna prove the sonof a gun. I'm gonna prove
you around. All right. You'llsee one day, you'll see. And
that has always been mattitude. Andyou know you can't let them defind you
know. I know me. II tell you you know, I've always
been motivated. But I think theone thing, the one thing any more

(27:53):
than that anything. Uh ever,was when I was when I was walking
out of the prison wall. Youknow, it was one of the CEOs
and he was on he was ona big white horse and he had the
big cowboy had on and he said, I'll see you when you get back,
and uh that's that's stuck with me. And I remember, I remember
I was wrestling one day and Isaw that CEO sitting like three rows back

(28:18):
and he looked at me and hesmiled. And the thing is, I
think he was happy that he didn'tsee me come back. And the thing
is, you can tend to judgea person for saying something like that,
But I'm sure that same CEO sawso many guys come back, you know
what I mean. So I lookedat that man and that motivated me,
and um, it made me feelgood when he saw me and actually smiled

(28:38):
at me and uh gave me ayou know like approval. You know,
did you think he said that tomotivate you to not come back or do
you think he was that smart justhe't be able to dick? Well?
I think I think it might havebeen a little bit of both, you
know what I mean really, becauselike I said, I'm sure he's seen
so many guys come back. Um, and and it's and it's so repetitive.

(29:02):
And I think those words him sayingthat if it, if it don't
motivate you not to come back,you're the one, you know, I
think lose in that situation. Iread I read somewhere you were the first
African American to have a belt,a World championship belt. Is that true?
And how much does that mean toyou? I'm I'm I'm the second

(29:22):
of African American to hold a Worldchampionship next to Run Simmons, and um,
you know it means a lot,but that I never I don't look
at my career, you know,as being black and only. You know,
I really don't look at it thatway, because when I went out
to perform, you know, Iwanted to be I want to perform for

(29:45):
everyone. I didn't just represent youknow, black kids. I represented you
know, the fans that was watchingthe show. You know. I don't
want to just be put in aposition just because I am black. I
want to be put in a positionbecause I'm better than everybody else in the
locker room. Um, no otherreasons, you know. So uh.
But but for me to have Ihad, you know a lot of accolades,

(30:06):
uh, because I don't know what'sgoing on. Okay, but Ray
pulled pulled us up for somewhere thatbook, I messed up. I pulled
us out. I musting with thestamp thing. Yeah that's okay, all

(30:27):
right, we're good, We're good, We're good, poor guy. Yeah,
I pulled it up. Oh rememberback, you gotta be got me?
What was that? What was thatlast time I heard? You were
just glad to be out there forthe fans. You didn't look at yourself

(30:48):
any different. Yeah, yeah,yeah, I never looked at myself as
um, you know, just beingthe black wrestler or anything like that.
And the reason the reason I saythat is because when I first got into
professional wrestling, I studied it,you know, I studied professional wrestling,
and I studied how do you getto the top level of the game,
how do you get to the mainevent? You know, uh, you

(31:11):
know, status, you know.And I looked at guys like Rip Flair,
guys like Nick Backwinkle, guys likeBruno, Sam Martino, and all
of these guys had a certain youknow something about them, you know what
I mean. They had that itfactor. They addressed a certain way,
they walked a certain way, theytalked a certain way. They had a
certain name as well, you know. So for me to have a name

(31:33):
like book or T I was veryvery important. It was a strong name.
It meant something for me to notcome out to wrap music in my
intro, it meant the whole lot. It meant that I wasn't just representing
the black culture. I was representingeveryone who wanted to be a part of
Book or T and UM. AndI think uh, walking and talking a

(31:56):
certain way is what enabled me toactually make it to a certain level.
And professor and wrestler, well yousaid that, well book that's sometimes my
kids is a pop Look, mykids loved you whenever small because they saw
you as the wrestler. It wasn'tthe black wrestler. It was just rustling.
Right. Look, I've I've saidthis repeatedly. I've seen on the
show before the two things in life. To me, maybe he's crossed it

(32:17):
over more now, but to methat I've said, that's a non cultural,
non color, non religious or sportsand music. If a brother can
play, he's that's a bad manif he If a white boy could play,
people your basketball, Larry Bird,there's all as that white I said
that brother is a bad baller.And if you're a musician like a Stevie

(32:38):
ray Vaughan talking about or Sprieston orwhatever, people's always like, no,
that's a rocker man. And seeme right where he played that guitar,
nobody's always't or Clapton, So yeah, man, Carl Santana ship. So
you always look at say, man, that's a bad man. So that's
I have a great admiration for people. You know where there's all I like

(33:00):
I said, music in sports,now obviously movies you go to see,
go to see the Denzel Washington,you know, because you love what a
lot of people come to see.You know, the white actors. You
don't go see as a white actorby say he's a good actor. I
mean exactly. They gotta stop.I mean, I'm tired of bullshit when
they start talking to try to clarify. I get it, Like but but

(33:22):
I but I tell you, Itell you though, what the one thing
though, we gotta it's up tous to actually create that, you know
what I mean? That or aroundus and the way people look at us.
You know, when you when youput yourself in a little box and
that's the only only you know waythat people look at you. That's the
only that's the only only thing peopleknow. But for me, like I
said, it was important from thebeginning to have you know, a name

(33:45):
to where people can look at meand say, oh man, that's just
that's just book of t not theblack guy. I didn't want to stereotype
myself and a lot of times westereotype ourselves. Yeah opposed to something.
How much is that under your control. Even when you're going to a match,
a championship match or whatever, howmuch of it is under your control?

(34:06):
And did you ever try to swaythe behind the scenes folks, did
you kind of more what you wantedto do? Well? I mean,
I'm an actor, you know,and I'm a I'm a performer, and
I've never been one of those guysto think about. Um. It's just
like just say, for us,as you go to read for a role
and you actually, you know,you win a week and they call you

(34:29):
can tell you you got the role, you know what I mean, You're
gonna be bringing you out to Hollywoodnext week, you know. And then
they break you out to Hollywood,you know, they tell you all you
ready to go over to the scriptand you tell them, hey, I
like the script, but can wechange something, And they're gonna tell you
get your ass on the plane andgo home, you know. So for
me, it was all about gettingthe script and trying to enhance it and
then make it the best I possiblycould. I never was one of those

(34:52):
guys trying to politic and play behindthe scenes. Always when I went home,
I left the bench that's at workingand went home and didn't think about
it. I had to go back, you know, and not made phone
calls, dropped the week and say, hey, what am I gonna be
doing next week? Yeah? Ijust wasn't like that. You know.
I'm I'm a performer. The bestperformance can can go like on the fly,

(35:13):
like you say action and they're readyto go, and you're gonna be
able to adapt. Exactly. Butpeople do don't think. Isn't there that
politicking behind the scenes. Oh yeah, it is a whole lot of politicing
behind the scenes. Um, Andthat's in every form of life, no
matter what. You know what Imean. I mean, if I was
Boom boom Matt CD, you know, I want to give me a bunch
of easy fights. I get tothe title. Yeah, people, I

(35:37):
used to hear this, you know, I used to hear I was,
I was a I was a mate, I was a TV fighter, I
was a mate made by television.I go, yeah, man, I
was, I said, But whatgood does that mean if I'm not a
winning fighter? Exactly? But ifI'm not a winning fighter to me,
exactly, It's just like the Rockymovie when Mick was, you know,

(35:58):
at Rocky and you know, hesaid, hey, Hey, you know,
this is my job, you knowwhat I mean. We got to
get to the title, but it'sa route to take to get to the
championship and I'm trying to protect youhere, you know. So for me,
it was always about, you know, the end game, and the
end game is what I'm what I'mdoing right now. I'm fifty four years
old, I'm healthy, Um,God bless um. You know, I

(36:22):
got a lovely wife and kids.And you know, I worked for Fox,
I work for ESPN, I workedfor WWE, and like I said,
I have my own wrestling company andwrestling promotion. You know, I
got the best of every form oflife, you know. And I think
it was all due to the beginningand thinking about calculating how to get to
this point because life is life isbeautiful. But but then again, life

(36:45):
is what we make it. That'sfor sure. That's for sure. Speaking
of calculating, when you guys wentfrom WCW and then WWF at the time
bought you guys out right, didyou guys think that that you were you
happy about that at the time whereyou kind of like where you guys were.
I mean, I was making alot of money where I was.
But you know, I gotta saying. You know, the man make the

(37:06):
money. The money don't make theman, you know. So when when
wc W came to an end,it's just like everything in life, man,
everything comes to an end. Youknow. I lost my mother when
I was, you know, fourteenyears old. I lost my father when
I was ten months old. Youknow, Um, I understand what loss
is. And nothing, nothing lastsforever, you know. So you just

(37:30):
preparation is they're only luck you're evergonna have. I was prepared when wc
W closed to just keep on movingand you know, keep on working.
You know, it's funny. Youknow, it's funny people who say to
me, I don't worry about nothingI really doing. At this point in
my life, I wren you know, doors closed, doors open. I'm
gonna be okay. I tell peopleI make things happen. I don't wait

(37:50):
for things happen. I make thingshappen. So you you know, and
when there was gonna close, I'llfind it. I always find another door.
I find another player. I don'tI make things happen, and went
on nobody for nothing. And uh, but you're like what you said in
life, you know, I meanI read that bad. I felt bad
your parents were you know, you'rea young man when your parents I can't
imagine because I had him for solong. My parents were so long and

(38:12):
they're a big part of my success, big part of my life. Wanting
to be a champion for my father, wanting you know, I wanted to
be that. You know, he'severything I wanted to be. I can't
imagine not somebody going up without that. But I admire those who have like
yourself and be fine other role models, whether your older brother or someone else.
And there's a young kid out therenow when no father looking up to
you as that role model, andthat's that's yeah, yeah, and that's

(38:36):
a that's a that's a hell ofa thing. Man, that's a beautiful
thing. You know. But youknow, you know I didn't have my
father when I was growing up,you know, but I had a strong
photo of him. You know,he didn't leave us, you know what
I mean, he passed away,you know, so I had that draw
strength from him. You know,Mom, when I leave was you know,
my my greatest idle. You knowthat I looked up to. You
know, I cried like a babywhen he passed away. It's it's like

(38:58):
he was my dad, you knowwhat I mean. So I I've had
my role models, and then youknow, it puts me on a position
now to where I have to bebe very strong for my little ones,
you know what I mean, andunders let them understand what what it means,
you know, to have dad,you know, and you know that
foundation, you know, and mydaughter making sure she knows what a man

(39:20):
really is and how how she reallyis supposed to be treated. So it
just gives me a foresight more thanI think than anything you know you're talking
about Muhammad I got. You justhave to be good friend of Mohammed uh
at the end, towards the end, his his lawyer, Asia was a
good friend of mine. So we'dhave I'd see him, you know,
from you know earlier, you knowwhat would be right when it was just

(39:42):
starting to get the percase of acertain effective till the end, before the
end, and I didn't win inprivate dinners enter a few times, but
the last time I tell people,I tell the story last time I was
with them and it was you know, it was you could speak and it
was still clear. I mean,I can understand and it as best as
possible. Gave me a hug.I remember, he gave me a hug,

(40:04):
gave me a kissing my cheek,and he's whispered in my ear.
Stay pretty, Stay pretty. Yeah, I don't get no better than that.
All they do you stay pretty.I mean, I remember that like
it was always. I always rememberthat I met him and and and I
guess it was like ninety eight.I had a card signing tops card signing
to do and when I got there, he was a little tired and that's

(40:28):
the only reason I was doing thesigning. And uh, I was a
little bummed out about it. Andhe was gracious enough, you know,
is uh my PR people talked tohis PR people, and he was gracious
enough to invite me inside of hishotel room. And uh I spent about
thirty minutes with Mohammed and uh wetalked and we took photos and it was

(40:49):
like one of one of the greatestdays of my life, you know,
for and it showed me, youknow that, uh, you know,
because it was something that he didn'thave to do. You know, it
doesn't coust you anything to be niceto go and uh and that taught me
so much you know, I died. I said all the time, guys,
I said, you gotta you gottado it. Ain't hard to be
a good guy, ain't hard.You gotta work hard to be a jerk
off. That's right, really do. Yeah, And he takes so much

(41:12):
out of you as well, youknow. So it just that taught me
so much in life. Um thathe was gracious enough to invite me into
his you know, his sanctuary,and when he didn't have to. That
was those unbelieve But how many timesyou see guys these autograph sessions they signed,
they look at the clock to sign, they don't even look it up
to the people, there's sign andsoon there's there are two hours up through
out the door. A PAULI wasstayed there to every one of them.

(41:37):
And I tried and I tried todo that. I tried to I stand
up. I'll stand up for fourhours if I have to, and I
take a photo. I standed upwhen every everybody want to think about photo
with me, you know. Andwhen I see that kind of stuff,
you know, it tells It tellsyou a whole lot about the person you
know, more and more important thananything. And for me, I'm not

(41:57):
gonna say at the end of theday. You know, we travel the
same road up um as we're gonnabe traveling down. So you should have
bet trying to make those roads yougot, uh, you know, travel
travel ready out there and learn.You can't take it for granted because it's
gonna end one day. It's gonnaend. Oh yeah. People said it's
ever fought bother you when people recognizeI said, no, man, that's
a privilege as it's an honor.I never think it because you're gonna go,

(42:21):
h forget that bump. You knowwhat I say, I say when
people stop recognizing me, that's whatI got a problem. But my father
used to say it to me allthe time. Raymond always remember one day
the headline, next day the breadline. Same people remember, same people who
call you chimp on the wind orcall you chump on the way out everything.

(42:42):
And that's the truth, you knowwhat? You know what? Uh
that it summed it up best,you know it was, uh the rumble
in the jungle, uh with Leeand George Foreman and George wash was leaving
it, leaving the arena. AndI remember the English commentator saying, you

(43:05):
know, look at look at Georgeleaving that with only a few people around
him and nobody mobs a beaten chump, yet beautiful line. All right,
wait, don't let him go.You're not gonna cut them off, are
you? I got four more questions? Why don't we do it like this?
Since we're getting toward the end,I'll do it like a lightning round.

(43:28):
You just answer the question. I'llgo to the next one. How's
that? YEA cool? Cool?All right? Tag team or on your
own? Which did you like better? I can't, I don't have a
preference, doesn't matter. Do youlove them both? Yes? Because you
know, Uh, it's just entertainment. It's just entertainment. I've never looked

(43:50):
at things of losses or anything likethat. Wrestler pastor present, you would
like to go against? Um olderRussell? I would love to have Russell
Sean Michaels. That's the only personI didn't get a chance to actually work
with somebody else's signature move that youwish you could do or would have done.

(44:15):
It's really cool. Um just themoon Stu. I used to be
a big fan of Mouta and fromJapan, and uh he brought the moon
sat to to the to the States. I think he ava guerrella. I
think did at first, but theGreat Mood actually perfected it. Did you
get nervous before a big bout everyevery time? That's why I don't miss

(44:40):
it. Um, I got butterflies. I wanted to, you know,
throw up at pray to God andsay, just get me through. This
is just one more time, youknow, because going out and making a
mistake was my biggest fear. Andnot you know, entertain the fans,
you know, to the you knowthat most was was was one of the
other Yeah, you kind of cutoff there, say you threw up sometimes

(45:00):
before a fight. I'd say Ialmost wanted to throw up, you know,
because it was just it just wasso nerve wracking, you know.
Butterflies were you know, just youknow, just swirling all around. It
was one of the most nerve wrackingthings I ever had to do, was
walk to the ring. Once Igot out of the curtain, I was
okay, but just backstage it wasnot a good feeling at all. Was

(45:22):
there a wrestler that kind of putyou under his wing or some of you
lucked up to when you were juststarting out, you know, only run
Simmons was a guy that kind ofschooled me un kind of like, you
know, because he was another blackguy who had made it to that level
and just told me certain you knowthings and whatnot. But Nana, I

(45:44):
always wanted to, you know,write my own ship. I always wanted
to you know, create my owndestiny and you know, leave a legacy
that like no one else ever leftbefore. But now I didn't look up
to anybody. Was that? Wasthere a couple of guys those you hung
with other than your brother that peoplewould know? I didn't. I didn't.
I didn't like hanging out, hangingout with the guy. Me and

(46:05):
r v D Rob Van Dam himand I we were really good friends.
We rode together. We were tagteam partners, tag team champions back in
the day. But I've always beena loner. You know. I always
say, you know, you can'tif you do something, you can't tell
on yourself. Yeah. Uh wasthe on the I saw the Rick Flair
thirty for thirty? Was his life? Was that flamboyant? Was it that

(46:25):
crazy? That fun? As faras you know, I don't know,
it's it's it's that's up for debate. As far as how fun it was,
you know, you know that's that'sthat's a lot of people look at
that. It's fun. A lotof people look at it in a lot
of different ways. You know.For me in my life, you know,
I don't know, I can youknow, I don't know. It's
a little bit. It's a touchysituation. Is wrestling as strong as it

(46:50):
was before? Or will it beas strong as it was before? Oh?
Wrestling bigger now than it has everbeen. Um, I'm a social
media you know, overseas, payper views, house shows, you know,
wrestling's biggest, biggest z ever beenright now, just because of what
we're at in times right network televisionnow that Fox is showing you exact Yeah,

(47:10):
exactly, that's all I got.You only took five minutes. Is
that pretty good? That's pretty good? Light? But you're a winning booker,
T man, I can't take enough. Hey, real fast? What
that's a book of T? Isaid? Am I the only one remembers
we were sitting at the table,I said, because I said, oh
book a T DMGs. You guyslooked at me like Sean Porter and musical.

(47:32):
They I go, what green unions? I said, we are only
guys. I remember you know whatyourself. You know, we as old
guys were, try not to talkabout stuff like that. Sean Porter's like,
Yo, what are you talking about? Yeah? As a books man,

(47:52):
the greatest rock and roll bands ofall time? Yeah they were good.
But I'm still getting CDs book heMG book at the NMG MCDs like,
like, I know who they were? Got to sign you sign him
for other people book. I can'ttake you nough for your time, brother.
It really means the world to me. You got me anytime you need
me let me know. Um,I'll run at you again, man,

(48:15):
because I don't know what I'm gonnabe out there again if I don't bot
but I I say no, Itell you what I'm gonna bring you.
I want to I want to getyou inside the Hall of Fame right before
that. Deontay Wilder, fiery fightman. Definitely so we can blaze over
the city exactly. You know yourthoughts what my thoughts are? Because I
think this that that is gonna beone fight that no one wants to miss

(48:37):
and everyway lemate the real fast Deontawax him dead this time, wax him
well. One thing about Deontay Wilder. Man, he every time he comes
in the rematch, you know,he he goes out a whole lot stronger.
He fights a whole lot differently DanteWilder is it's so far ahead of
the game. You know, aguy starting boxing at the age of twenty.

(48:58):
It's unbelievable how much more growth.Deonte Wilder steal hands. He's still
a work in progress. So Isee that fight. Um, they've been
a really good fight. I'm gonnatell you, man, I mean,
I look at Tyson Fury, youknow, a big, strong guy,
and we move sCOD he can't fighta whole lot though people don't understand.
I no, No, he canmove, he can't fight. And the

(49:22):
thing is he doesn't have a wholelot of funching. I mean he normally
stopped his guys from volume punches.And what I think, Um, like
I said, Deane Wilder, hedefinitely fights, uh the rematch a whole
lot diffinitely than he fight the firstfight. So I think that's I think
I will put my money on theWilder in this fight. But let Tyson
Fury Seller fight what he's doing andhe will do. But what he but

(49:46):
but but Jonte'll knock him down thistime. He'll keep good, be a
good fight. Can't wait to seeyou again. Honestly, God, thank
you, my brother. I can'tthink you love for you, thank you,
thank you? All right, man. It don't get no better than
that, Nope, no better thanthat. Nope. He's written a book,
he's got a school for kids,he's getting He's a wonderful guy.

(50:07):
I met oh Man to become friends. Dude, you know, several times
see him out there and running toeach other. Just a wonderful guy.
And I was, you know,I'm so happy to get a chance to
meet him. But kids just talkabout him all the time. But I
used to hear her name. Butbut Mike, you did a good job
at the interview. I don't quietsaid, there you go, you're you're
a wrestling guy. Well, Itell people that's clarify RECTI five. It's

(50:32):
best. He's the interview guy.I'm just I'm just the entertainment guy.
I try to bring something to it. Mice the interview guy. I'm not.
I'm not I'm not all over it. I'm not the best ask you
questions because that's not what I do. I like to make convers conversation,
but you're good at interview and thatyou do that very well. See that's
that's the synergyft the group here,the messenger, sift, the team of

(50:54):
it. We did watch a lotof wrestling, brother, I used to
watch because my children used to watchit. Great. We never the great
figures or anything like that. Thatwas that came later. But great athletes,
man, I tell what they dotheir body? I know, can't
How did they not have you know, arms and bad you know what I'm

(51:15):
saying. We're talking about when Mickeydid the wrestler you know, like Mickey
when the he got with the stablegun, he had the guys shoot him
with that. That's real. Thatwas real. It's crazy. He wanted
the real to Mickey's a method actor. I said, what about called acting?
Just act dumb? But how aboutwhen they used to do that last
razor blade stuff like that and chumpoff. I mean they don't people don't

(51:37):
know how high up in the air. Oh man, I don't know.
I have such admiration for him.So uh man, that was wonderful.
Man, that was great. Agood way to start off the new year.
I don't know if we're gonna haveto get get better than you know
the next couple of weeks. Butnext week I won't be here folks next
week because I'm on the road.Okay, I'm on the road. Um,

(51:58):
are you on this one this weekend? Or this? You're going to
that one the eighteenth? You're goingto that? No, I'm actually not
what the Fox Now, I'm notgoing to be in the studio too much.
We're not doing the studio show nomore so. I'll be doing more
focus on the pay per view andthe FS one shows. Well, but
it may change his year goes on. That's how it is right now.
They've changed due the flip you know, the flippy floppy a few times now.
So but I hope so I missedit. Man, I loved it.

(52:21):
I loved working Fox. Last yearI worked. I love looking for
the work on this year. Imean, I love working with Fox.
Period. Is it like a season? No Boxing has over No, No
Box has no season. It kindof is for Fox for a little while
though, right, but only one. The only month is October because we
had the Baseball Playoffs, World Series, College football and NFL football, So

(52:43):
it's just too much, that's right, which was great. We needed a
break, so it was good.But they's come back strong soon big.
But I'm looking forward to, youknow, all the way up to September
and then you know, November Decemberwere great. So, uh, Fox
is back in you know, eighteenshows that you're not twenty six. We
did twenty six last year. Tookoff a few more shows off the FS
one and a couple off the Fox, but they did more pay per views.

(53:04):
We're doing five pay per views thisyear. Wow. So yeah,
okay, it be good, Okay, ladies, Yeah, but I hope
you enjoyed the show. If youknow, tell your friends we're back up
and moving. Won't be next week. The week after. We'll be back
and we'll have another strong guest becausethat was great. Man, we have
to bring another strong guest. Ican't come with. I gotta come heavy
this year. It's got to comeevery We gotta come heavy, John and

(53:27):
John Man, John Greener. Who'swho's our guest this week? I think
I'll think it's somebody Yeah, butbut but but we're gonna get people of
some national renown. We gotta getbigger. Because I realized, you know,
some of the ideas I had didn'tflow so well, and didn't weren't
didn't get the great response, Ihope. But that's okay, that's right.

(53:49):
But we took a shot. Andbut we're gonna go We're gonna go
big. We gotta get some bignames. So we're gonna be doing that
this year, okay. Um,And we'll have a great guest and two
weeks from today I'll be back,good, bigger, better, better than
ever. All right. Hey,until next time, take care of each
other, love each other, goodnight, and God bless