December 27, 2023 • 16 mins
Ever feel like you're playing detective when it comes to monitoring math progress? Well, grab your magnifying glass because on today's episode, I, Jessica Curtis, am your guide to unraveling the mystery of effective math intervention. With a spotlight on choosing students with aligned needs and deciphering assessment data, we lay out an actionable plan to reinforce those foundational math skills that are so often the culprits of confusion. And let's not forget the significance of prerequisite skills – we ensure these are locked in place, setting up our students for a smoother climb up the math mountain.
As we navigate the twists and turns of math education, you'll discover how a splash of color and the vroom of miniature cars can transform a daunting concept into an 'aha!' moment. Sharing my personal toolkit of creative strategies, I invite you to join me in thinking outside the traditional teaching box. Stay tuned for a sneak peek at our next episode where I'll stir the pot with some controversial math opinions. Until then, may your coffee be strong and your breaks be restorative. Let's toast to a year where math struggles meet their match!
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Links Mentioned in the Show:
https://teachingstrugglinglearners.com
5 Steps to Getting Started with Progress Monitoring
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So for the last several weeks we've talked about
math and we've talked about howwe need to get the kids working
on and mastering thosefoundational skills before we
move on.
And the fact is, if you teachmath at any grade level, at this
point you can probably list abunch of kids that need math
(00:24):
interventions.
Right, you could easily choosefour or five of them to work
with to remediate.
I'm not saying you could easilyhave the time and the resources
and all that, but you couldeasily choose four or five
students that need mathremediation.
I guess the next step for us totalk about is how do we figure
(00:46):
out what to focus on in progress, monitor what's the most
important thing, and that's whatwe're going to talk about today
.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi, I'm Jessica Curtis of Teaching Struggling
Learners.
I'm a boy-mom and a veteranteacher.
You're listening to theReaching Struggling Learners
podcast, where we talk all abouthelping students succeed
academically, socially andbehaviorally.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So, just like with everything else, with progress
monitoring, we have to have astarting point.
We have to figure out where arewe now and where do we want to
go, or where do we think we cango really in the next little bit
.
Math for some reason seems morecomplicated.
(01:52):
The road to being successful inmath just in some ways seems
more complicated.
It seems like there's so manymore avenues that are branches.
However you want to look atthat metaphor, analogy, whatever
, it just seems more convolutedwith reading or than reading.
(02:16):
With reading you think aboutokay, the student can't read, we
have to do phonics.
Okay, if they can't do phonics,we got to do phonemic awareness
.
If they can do phonics, allright, we got to work on some
fluency.
It just seems like it step bystep by step, it seems like an
easier progression.
With math, for some reason, wemake it much more complicated.
(02:42):
We think, okay, number, numbersense, place value, that's
related to number sense, you gotto have that build on it.
But then addition andsubtraction seem like offshoots.
Even though they're related,they're not the same exact
building structure.
Subtraction definitely buildsfrom addition, multiplication,
(03:05):
yeah.
But then you got decimals.
Decimals are kind of weird,they're more like place value,
and you got time and you havemoney and you have all these
other pieces.
Oh, and then geometry Don'teven get us started on.
How does geometry fit in?
All that?
For some reason and it hashappened in many, many different
(03:29):
meetings when we start talkingabout math, we start talking
about math, all the differentthings, and it's hard to get a
group of teachers, a group ofadults, whatever, to agree that,
hey, this is the next step thatneeds to be taken for this
(03:49):
student to be able to besuccessful in math.
And so that's why I reallywanted to talk today about what
are the steps that you can taketo figure out exactly what you
want to progress, or what youneed to progress, monitor for
your student and what prioritiesto set.
So, again, you know I love mysteps.
(04:11):
So step one is we have todetermine the kids and the group
of kids with similar needs andsimilar learning styles.
Why do I say that?
Because, again, this kind ofstuff is just kind of inherent.
It's easy to do with readingbecause we do it so often with
(04:33):
reading.
With math, we have to put inmore thinking time into our
preparation before we can do ourinterventions.
And all that Because, again,it's not all set up for us like
it is for reading.
It's not as comfortable.
So, first of all, we got tofigure out what are our kids,
(04:54):
the groups, what are, what aretheir similar needs and what are
their learning styles.
The second step is we need toreview the assessments, the
screeners, all that informationto figure out the most basic
skills that we've got to work on.
Why did I say kids first andthen the, the screeners and all
(05:19):
that?
Second, because the fact is weare so much more limited on our
time and our our resources formath.
We have to be, we have to poolour resources a lot more with
math and the fact is you'reprobably not going to be able to
(05:40):
have as many math groups as youdo your reading groups, just
because the priorities we'vetalked about that in previous
episodes.
So we have to kind of figureout what's our group dynamic
going to look like and thenfigure out, okay, they have
similar needs, but we're goingto have to really pinpoint all
(06:01):
of those, the needs of thesestudents, so we can work on it.
That's our for our step two.
For step three, we need tofigure out an additional
screener or quiz or work sample,whatever to check on
prerequisite skills.
So when we figure out, hey, Ithink that our student needs to
(06:24):
work in this skill set, whateverit is take some time and really
think hard what were theprerequisite skills that that
student needed to be able tomaster, needed to be able to do,
to do this and figure out a wayto quiz that, to check and see
(06:46):
is that student honestly solidin the prerequisite skills?
Whether it's number sense,whether it's place value,
whether it's addition fluency,subtraction fluency, identifying
shapes, whatever it is, doesthe student have the
prerequisite skills andknowledge to be able to move on?
(07:07):
And work samples, whatever arereally easy ways to quickly
figure out if that student isstrong in those other skill
areas and we got to check onthat.
If they're solid on it,wonderful, we have just
pinpointed the foundationalskill that we need to focus on.
If not, well, we got some moredigging to do so.
(07:31):
Once you have figured out themost basic, the fundamental
skill that you know, you knowwhere you need to start.
That's where you make yoursimple goal.
Now I talked about it a coupleof weeks ago Don't go for word
problems.
Just say no to word problems.
That should be.
I need to get a shirt with that.
Just say no to word problems.
(07:53):
I'm doing it, but that's whatwe need to do.
We need to make a simple goal.
The student will be able tocorrectly answer 20 addition
problems in a minute.
Whatever your goal is going tobe, figure that out and the next
step, step five, ignore thecurrent math topic.
(08:18):
Ignore it.
Ignore it is so hard.
It is so hard.
I don't know why.
It's not hard in reading, it isso hard in math.
We always want our kids to getbetter grades immediately.
We want them to feel better onall that immediately.
Guys, trust the process.
Better fact fluency willimprove word problems.
(08:41):
It will.
Better fact fluency or betternumber sense are going to
improve.
Adding or subtracting ormultiplying or dividing,
decimals or fractions orwhatever it is.
Having the basic skills willimpact, whatever the topic is
that they're working on in classright now, but they're not
(09:04):
ready for the topic that they'redoing right now.
We have to fill in those gaps.
We have to, and we can't stoptime.
It's horrible, but it's reality.
We can't stop time in the largeclassroom Because the fact is
we have certain rules.
There are standards that wehave to teach and we cannot stop
(09:26):
and not teach these other, moreadvanced skills because this
group of five isn't ready for ityet.
It's the sad, hard truth ofeducation.
You're a teacher, you know thisand it's horrible.
It is horrible, but we can'tstop time.
The class is going to move on toother topics.
(09:47):
The best thing we can do issupport them in the most
foundational skills so thatthose new topics are a little
bit easier and a little biteasier.
That's how we help them.
So we're going to ignore thatcurrent math skill, whatever it
(10:09):
is.
Now, if what we're doingdirectly relates, if we're
working on adding, adding withregrouping, and they're doing
adding decimals with regroupingwonderful, that's a beautiful
thing.
And how in the world did it?
That's really close.
I don't know that you would be.
I honestly don't know that youwould be remediating that if
(10:30):
they're that close in skills.
But if they are wonderful, thatis amazing.
They can now practice that.
But chances are that's notwhat's going to happen.
Chances are the skill thatwe're remediating is pretty,
pretty far removed.
It's probably very foundationalcompared to what's going on in
(10:53):
their, in the math class, thelarge math class.
But we have to trust theprocess.
We have to trust that we, whatwe know, that math builds, and
by helping them here, byteaching them these skills,
these low level, easier skills,foundational skills, that we are
(11:13):
boosting them on.
The more advanced skills We'llget there, but we have to have,
we have to take the time to doto get there.
And finally, number six you haveto choose how you're going to
reteach that skill.
Are you going to use visuals?
Are there multi-sensory ways todo it?
How are you going to practice?
(11:35):
And again, just doing drills isnot how you practice, how you,
how you reteach it.
Just setting a, a skill sheetdown is not how you, how you
reteach it.
You have to actually intervene,you have to reteach it.
We have to show them, notnecessarily a different way to
(11:56):
do it, but show them in adifferent way how they did it.
For students with, for example,attention struggles, maybe using
, you know, circles and dots ona paper isn't good enough.
Maybe, maybe we need to usecars.
I'll tell you what those littlemini cars.
They were from the Cars Movie,but they were a little tiny, I
(12:20):
don't know, maybe an inch wide,high, whatever, but those things
were phenomenal for teaching mysix year old at the time.
Addition and subtraction Because, let me tell you, attention,
with a six year old, is a thingthat doesn't exist.
And so I had those little carsout and we could zoom them up
(12:42):
and we could have a parking lotof those cars, and then you add
a couple more.
Oh, that's what addition is?
You're putting them togetherand then, oh no, subtractions
were taken them apart, they'redriving away.
Let me tell you, that was thebreakthrough.
It wasn't my amazing teaching,it was the stinking cars.
But finally he figured out itjust clicked in his little brain
(13:03):
that adding means all the carsgo together, subjecting means
these little cars go away.
I went through.
I used popcorn kernels, I haveused the little circle, you know
the yellow and the red dotthingamajiggers, I tried dice, I
tried drawing things.
I did lollipops.
That was a horrible idea,because then you just wanted to
(13:24):
eat the lollipops.
I finally just was that thecars were available.
They were in the corner overthere.
I picked them up and we didthem, and that was when it
clicked.
You never know what silly thingis going to make it click, but
you think about different ways.
(13:44):
Is a kid tactile?
Are they?
Are they?
Do they have to move?
Oh, my goodness, do they haveto move?
Then let's figure out a way toget the movement in there.
That's how you get theinterventions going.
The kids are used to sitting inthe chairs.
They're used to sitting intheir desks.
They're used to doingworksheets.
What are other ways that we canreteach this concept?
(14:07):
Not showing them how to 100different ways to do this
concept.
We don't want to confuse themand show them 20 different ways
or five different ways to dothis one type of problem.
No, we want to show them oneway to do it, but use five
(14:28):
different ways on in how, how,how they can do it that way.
We're going to use, we're gonnaand it does.
It takes some stress, stretchingof our own minds to figure out
how can I show this, how to dothis process?
They're gonna do the processthe exact same way, but how can
(14:48):
I show it to them differently?
And it hurts your brain, itdoes.
That's off to math teachersLike you are some of the.
They get a bad rap, I know,because sometimes it doesn't
appear that they're verycreative.
Their classrooms do tend to bea little bit more.
I mean they're, they'regeometric and all that.
(15:10):
But let me tell you they aresome of the most creative people
in the world because they arefiguring out a hundred different
ways to show the way to dosomething, and hats off to them
every single time.
But we've got to figure out howare we going to reteach it, how
are we going to provide anintervention for these kids?
And the next step is, with allthat is to get started, jump in
(15:36):
and if the little yellow and reddot card dot counter
thingamajiggers don't work,seriously try the little cars,
try, try, uh, try big cars, try,I don't know Barbie shoes.
I mean, goodness knows, I had abillion of those.
Find something, anything, andyou never know what might click
(16:01):
for that student.
Anyway, yes, math is acomplicated concept.
We're going to talk more aboutmath, but it's not going to be
next week.
Next week I'm going to say somethings that are going to get me
in trouble, so you're going towant to tune in for that while I
get myself in trouble.
And then, yeah, I'm going toget myself into a world trouble.
(16:24):
But you know what, I'm here forit.
Until next time, may yourcoffee be strong, your break
absolutely fantastic and amazing, and your new years beautiful,
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Bye.
So for the last several weeks we've talked about
math and we've talked about howwe need to get the kids working
on and mastering thosefoundational skills before we
move on.
And the fact is, if you teachmath at any grade level, at this
point you can probably list abunch of kids that need math
(00:24):
interventions.
Right, you could easily choosefour or five of them to work
with to remediate.
I'm not saying you could easilyhave the time and the resources
and all that, but you couldeasily choose four or five
students that need mathremediation.
I guess the next step for us totalk about is how do we figure
(00:46):
out what to focus on in progress, monitor what's the most
important thing, and that's whatwe're going to talk about today
.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi, I'm Jessica Curtis of Teaching Struggling
Learners.
I'm a boy-mom and a veteranteacher.
You're listening to theReaching Struggling Learners
podcast, where we talk all abouthelping students succeed
academically, socially andbehaviorally.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So, just like with everything else, with progress
monitoring, we have to have astarting point.
We have to figure out where arewe now and where do we want to
go, or where do we think we cango really in the next little bit
.
Math for some reason seems morecomplicated.
(01:52):
The road to being successful inmath just in some ways seems
more complicated.
It seems like there's so manymore avenues that are branches.
However you want to look atthat metaphor, analogy, whatever
, it just seems more convolutedwith reading or than reading.
(02:16):
With reading you think aboutokay, the student can't read, we
have to do phonics.
Okay, if they can't do phonics,we got to do phonemic awareness
.
If they can do phonics, allright, we got to work on some
fluency.
It just seems like it step bystep by step, it seems like an
easier progression.
With math, for some reason, wemake it much more complicated.
(02:42):
We think, okay, number, numbersense, place value, that's
related to number sense, you gotto have that build on it.
But then addition andsubtraction seem like offshoots.
Even though they're related,they're not the same exact
building structure.
Subtraction definitely buildsfrom addition, multiplication,
(03:05):
yeah.
But then you got decimals.
Decimals are kind of weird,they're more like place value,
and you got time and you havemoney and you have all these
other pieces.
Oh, and then geometry Don'teven get us started on.
How does geometry fit in?
All that?
For some reason and it hashappened in many, many different
(03:29):
meetings when we start talkingabout math, we start talking
about math, all the differentthings, and it's hard to get a
group of teachers, a group ofadults, whatever, to agree that,
hey, this is the next step thatneeds to be taken for this
(03:49):
student to be able to besuccessful in math.
And so that's why I reallywanted to talk today about what
are the steps that you can taketo figure out exactly what you
want to progress, or what youneed to progress, monitor for
your student and what prioritiesto set.
So, again, you know I love mysteps.
(04:11):
So step one is we have todetermine the kids and the group
of kids with similar needs andsimilar learning styles.
Why do I say that?
Because, again, this kind ofstuff is just kind of inherent.
It's easy to do with readingbecause we do it so often with
(04:33):
reading.
With math, we have to put inmore thinking time into our
preparation before we can do ourinterventions.
And all that Because, again,it's not all set up for us like
it is for reading.
It's not as comfortable.
So, first of all, we got tofigure out what are our kids,
(04:54):
the groups, what are, what aretheir similar needs and what are
their learning styles.
The second step is we need toreview the assessments, the
screeners, all that informationto figure out the most basic
skills that we've got to work on.
Why did I say kids first andthen the, the screeners and all
(05:19):
that?
Second, because the fact is weare so much more limited on our
time and our our resources formath.
We have to be, we have to poolour resources a lot more with
math and the fact is you'reprobably not going to be able to
(05:40):
have as many math groups as youdo your reading groups, just
because the priorities we'vetalked about that in previous
episodes.
So we have to kind of figureout what's our group dynamic
going to look like and thenfigure out, okay, they have
similar needs, but we're goingto have to really pinpoint all
(06:01):
of those, the needs of thesestudents, so we can work on it.
That's our for our step two.
For step three, we need tofigure out an additional
screener or quiz or work sample,whatever to check on
prerequisite skills.
So when we figure out, hey, Ithink that our student needs to
(06:24):
work in this skill set, whateverit is take some time and really
think hard what were theprerequisite skills that that
student needed to be able tomaster, needed to be able to do,
to do this and figure out a wayto quiz that, to check and see
(06:46):
is that student honestly solidin the prerequisite skills?
Whether it's number sense,whether it's place value,
whether it's addition fluency,subtraction fluency, identifying
shapes, whatever it is, doesthe student have the
prerequisite skills andknowledge to be able to move on?
(07:07):
And work samples, whatever arereally easy ways to quickly
figure out if that student isstrong in those other skill
areas and we got to check onthat.
If they're solid on it,wonderful, we have just
pinpointed the foundationalskill that we need to focus on.
If not, well, we got some moredigging to do so.
(07:31):
Once you have figured out themost basic, the fundamental
skill that you know, you knowwhere you need to start.
That's where you make yoursimple goal.
Now I talked about it a coupleof weeks ago Don't go for word
problems.
Just say no to word problems.
That should be.
I need to get a shirt with that.
Just say no to word problems.
(07:53):
I'm doing it, but that's whatwe need to do.
We need to make a simple goal.
The student will be able tocorrectly answer 20 addition
problems in a minute.
Whatever your goal is going tobe, figure that out and the next
step, step five, ignore thecurrent math topic.
(08:18):
Ignore it.
Ignore it is so hard.
It is so hard.
I don't know why.
It's not hard in reading, it isso hard in math.
We always want our kids to getbetter grades immediately.
We want them to feel better onall that immediately.
Guys, trust the process.
Better fact fluency willimprove word problems.
(08:41):
It will.
Better fact fluency or betternumber sense are going to
improve.
Adding or subtracting ormultiplying or dividing,
decimals or fractions orwhatever it is.
Having the basic skills willimpact, whatever the topic is
that they're working on in classright now, but they're not
(09:04):
ready for the topic that they'redoing right now.
We have to fill in those gaps.
We have to, and we can't stoptime.
It's horrible, but it's reality.
We can't stop time in the largeclassroom Because the fact is
we have certain rules.
There are standards that wehave to teach and we cannot stop
(09:26):
and not teach these other, moreadvanced skills because this
group of five isn't ready for ityet.
It's the sad, hard truth ofeducation.
You're a teacher, you know thisand it's horrible.
It is horrible, but we can'tstop time.
The class is going to move on toother topics.
(09:47):
The best thing we can do issupport them in the most
foundational skills so thatthose new topics are a little
bit easier and a little biteasier.
That's how we help them.
So we're going to ignore thatcurrent math skill, whatever it
(10:09):
is.
Now, if what we're doingdirectly relates, if we're
working on adding, adding withregrouping, and they're doing
adding decimals with regroupingwonderful, that's a beautiful
thing.
And how in the world did it?
That's really close.
I don't know that you would be.
I honestly don't know that youwould be remediating that if
(10:30):
they're that close in skills.
But if they are wonderful, thatis amazing.
They can now practice that.
But chances are that's notwhat's going to happen.
Chances are the skill thatwe're remediating is pretty,
pretty far removed.
It's probably very foundationalcompared to what's going on in
(10:53):
their, in the math class, thelarge math class.
But we have to trust theprocess.
We have to trust that we, whatwe know, that math builds, and
by helping them here, byteaching them these skills,
these low level, easier skills,foundational skills, that we are
(11:13):
boosting them on.
The more advanced skills We'llget there, but we have to have,
we have to take the time to doto get there.
And finally, number six you haveto choose how you're going to
reteach that skill.
Are you going to use visuals?
Are there multi-sensory ways todo it?
How are you going to practice?
(11:35):
And again, just doing drills isnot how you practice, how you,
how you reteach it.
Just setting a, a skill sheetdown is not how you, how you
reteach it.
You have to actually intervene,you have to reteach it.
We have to show them, notnecessarily a different way to
(11:56):
do it, but show them in adifferent way how they did it.
For students with, for example,attention struggles, maybe using
, you know, circles and dots ona paper isn't good enough.
Maybe, maybe we need to usecars.
I'll tell you what those littlemini cars.
They were from the Cars Movie,but they were a little tiny, I
(12:20):
don't know, maybe an inch wide,high, whatever, but those things
were phenomenal for teaching mysix year old at the time.
Addition and subtraction Because, let me tell you, attention,
with a six year old, is a thingthat doesn't exist.
And so I had those little carsout and we could zoom them up
(12:42):
and we could have a parking lotof those cars, and then you add
a couple more.
Oh, that's what addition is?
You're putting them togetherand then, oh no, subtractions
were taken them apart, they'redriving away.
Let me tell you, that was thebreakthrough.
It wasn't my amazing teaching,it was the stinking cars.
But finally he figured out itjust clicked in his little brain
(13:03):
that adding means all the carsgo together, subjecting means
these little cars go away.
I went through.
I used popcorn kernels, I haveused the little circle, you know
the yellow and the red dotthingamajiggers, I tried dice, I
tried drawing things.
I did lollipops.
That was a horrible idea,because then you just wanted to
(13:24):
eat the lollipops.
I finally just was that thecars were available.
They were in the corner overthere.
I picked them up and we didthem, and that was when it
clicked.
You never know what silly thingis going to make it click, but
you think about different ways.
(13:44):
Is a kid tactile?
Are they?
Are they?
Do they have to move?
Oh, my goodness, do they haveto move?
Then let's figure out a way toget the movement in there.
That's how you get theinterventions going.
The kids are used to sitting inthe chairs.
They're used to sitting intheir desks.
They're used to doingworksheets.
What are other ways that we canreteach this concept?
(14:07):
Not showing them how to 100different ways to do this
concept.
We don't want to confuse themand show them 20 different ways
or five different ways to dothis one type of problem.
No, we want to show them oneway to do it, but use five
(14:28):
different ways on in how, how,how they can do it that way.
We're going to use, we're gonnaand it does.
It takes some stress, stretchingof our own minds to figure out
how can I show this, how to dothis process?
They're gonna do the processthe exact same way, but how can
(14:48):
I show it to them differently?
And it hurts your brain, itdoes.
That's off to math teachersLike you are some of the.
They get a bad rap, I know,because sometimes it doesn't
appear that they're verycreative.
Their classrooms do tend to bea little bit more.
I mean they're, they'regeometric and all that.
(15:10):
But let me tell you they aresome of the most creative people
in the world because they arefiguring out a hundred different
ways to show the way to dosomething, and hats off to them
every single time.
But we've got to figure out howare we going to reteach it, how
are we going to provide anintervention for these kids?
And the next step is, with allthat is to get started, jump in
(15:36):
and if the little yellow and reddot card dot counter
thingamajiggers don't work,seriously try the little cars,
try, try, uh, try big cars, try,I don't know Barbie shoes.
I mean, goodness knows, I had abillion of those.
Find something, anything, andyou never know what might click
(16:01):
for that student.
Anyway, yes, math is acomplicated concept.
We're going to talk more aboutmath, but it's not going to be
next week.
Next week I'm going to say somethings that are going to get me
in trouble, so you're going towant to tune in for that while I
get myself in trouble.
And then, yeah, I'm going toget myself into a world trouble.
(16:24):
But you know what, I'm here forit.
Until next time, may yourcoffee be strong, your break
absolutely fantastic and amazing, and your new years beautiful,
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Bye.
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