April 10, 2024 • 16 mins
Ever felt like the education system might be failing our kids in reading, writing, and arithmetic? That's exactly what we're tackling in this episode, where I shed light on the imperative for a revitalized Multi-Tiered System of Supports (MTSS) that can truly meet the needs of an unexpected majority of students demanding additional help. Through in-depth discussion, you'll gain insights into why a one-size-fits-all curriculum is a myth and how we, as a collective, can arm our educators with top-shelf resources, superior teaching techniques, and the kind of training that makes tailoring learning to each unique student a reality.
With over 70% of students now leaning on an MTSS framework initially designed for just a quarter of the population, the call for action has never been louder. Next week's promise of demystifying MTSS and its role in special education direction is just the beginning. But for now, let's focus on the here and now—identifying the cracks in the current system and laying down the roadmap for a more robust, effective MTSS that teachers can implement with confidence. So, pour yourself a strong cup of coffee and join me on this quest for serene students and thriving learners. Goodbye for now, but stay tuned for our next educational deep dive!
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Links Mentioned in the Show:
https://teachingstrugglinglearners.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So last week I shared that we're going to be changing
things, shifting things around,just changing my focus, when it
comes down to it, of how I wantto really try and help
education.
I have been for several yearsnow talking about progress
(00:22):
monitoring and I do trulybelieve that if we want to
switch things around, we have tofill in those gaps that the
kids don't have, and the biggestway that I think that we can do
that is by fixing some things,some systems within the school
(00:45):
system, so that we can fix thesystem, the school system as a
whole.
So the first one that I want totalk about today is related to
the overwhelming number ofstudents who need MTSS supports
and the fact that the MTSSsupports and the fact that the
MTSS system was never designedto handle, you know, 70% of the
(01:11):
school population.
It was meant to, you know,support the 25% of students that
, theoretically, the Tier 1program was not supporting.
Well, we've got a flippedsystem right now.
So what we have to do is, firstof all, we've got to work on
(01:36):
the Tier 1.
But aside from that, we have tofix the MTSS system and make it
manageable so that schools canstart using the system properly
to get their students back ontrack.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
(02:02):
Hi, I'm Jessica Curtis ofTeaching Struggling Learners.
I'm a boy mom and a veteranteacher.
You're listening to theReaching Struggling Learners
podcast, where we talk all abouthelping students succeed
academically, socially andbehaviorally.
Thank you so much for tuning in, tuning in.
(02:36):
So last week, if you listenedin, we talked a little bit a lot
of it about the current stateof education, the state of
schools, and, quite frankly, ifyou are involved in education as
a teacher, an admin or a parent, you already know that schools
are in the midst of a massivestruggle right now.
Obviously goes without saying,we have to have high quality
tier one curriculum and we haveto have good teachers.
(02:58):
Right now, we are not supplyingthe good teachers that we have
with high quality curriculum,and that's something that
absolutely has to be addressedat the school board, the state,
even the administrative level,but that's kind of beyond my
purview.
When it comes down to it, thereare a lot of good quality tier
(03:22):
one curriculums out there.
There are a lot of good qualitytier one curriculums out there
and unfortunately, in my opinion, we have just stopped focusing
on the things that reallymattered.
When it comes down to it, wehave come up with all these
flighty, amazing things that wewant the kids to be able to do.
When it comes down to it, allparents or teachers or, you know
(03:46):
, businesses really want is theywant students and their workers
to be able to read, write anddo math.
That's it, and it's really notthat hard, and there are a lot
of tier one curriculums that cando that.
We've got to work on that.
Even the best curriculums thatI have seen and there are some
(04:08):
really good ones, there's someterrible ones, but there are
some really good ones Even thebest curriculums that are out
there, they're not going to beable to meet every single
student's needs, and I'm noteven talking about special
education, I'm talking about thevast majority of students.
No curriculum that has or everwill be sold is ever going to
(04:31):
meet every single student'sneeds, and that's really the
fundamental reason that we haveto have MTSS.
It's not a bad thing, becauseour students, just like our
society and our people, are notcookie cutter.
No two people are exactly thesame.
No two children are exactly thesame.
No two children learn exactlythe same way.
(04:52):
That's why tier one curriculumsneed to have differentiation
and different ways of learningmaterial.
But right now, right now, evenif we magically pulled out an
amazing, perfect curriculum thatwould reach 75, 80% of our
population, there's still goingto be the students who right now
(05:17):
don't have all the prerequisiteskills that they need.
They have skill gaps.
It is absolutely essential thatwe fix the MTSS system.
We have to get it workingproperly, including training
teachers, providing resources,you know, not just more work,
(05:37):
not more work for teachers,actual resources that are going
to make the MTSS process, theinterventions, progress
monitoring, the whole shebangeasier, more streamlined, so
that they can help theirstudents.
And then we also have to helpthe teachers track the
information again, progressmonitoring and collecting that
(06:00):
data, reporting that data sothat we can get kids doing basic
skills again.
When I talk to high school andmiddle school teachers, friends
of mine, every single one ofthem have the exact same
complaints the students don'thave basic skills.
Algebra teachers are unhappy,they're upset, they're
(06:24):
frustrated because theirstudents don't know the basic
addition, subtraction,multiplication and division
facts Forget division.
They don't even talk aboutdivision.
They're irritated that the kidsdon't know basic addition and
multiplication.
That's just basics.
That's not hard stuff, that'snot complicated, that's not word
problems.
They're so frustrated becausethe kids can't do the basics
(06:47):
English teachers, historyteachers, science teachers
they're frustrated because theirstudents can't read.
Not that the students are poorreaders, no, they're frustrated
because their students can'tread.
They're frustrated becausetheir students who are in middle
and high school they cannotgive them an assignment to write
a single paragraph on a topicthat the students cannot
(07:12):
complete.
A one sentence, cannot write asingle sentence with
capitalization, punctuation andyou know kind of correct
spelling.
It's the basics that theteachers at the upper grades and
beyond are really frustratedthat their students can't do.
That's skill gaps right therewhich MTSS could help.
(07:32):
We know this.
Mtss was not built to handle70% of kids being below what we
consider to be grade level to bestruggling in school, but it
can help to bring the kids up tospeed quickly.
That system in general, a lotof the kids.
Honestly, I have tutored andworked with a lot of kids over
(07:56):
the years and the vast majorityof those students the reason
that they were struggling withreading, writing, math was
because they were really neverintroduced to the topics and the
topics were not reinforced.
Do not think for a second thatI am bashing teachers.
I am not bashing teachers.
(08:16):
If teachers had a high qualitytier one curriculum, this
wouldn't be a problem.
We wouldn't be having thisdiscussion at all.
But the students that I'veworked with many, many times,
they weren't taught the basicphonics skills.
They weren't taught how todecode words properly.
So that makes it really reallyhard to, you know, read new
(08:38):
words.
The students, yeah, theylearned addition.
They learned that you know 5plus 3 equals 8.
But it was not practiced to thepoint that 5 plus 3 is 8 is an
automatic skill.
It's a fact that the studentjust knows.
They have to figure it outevery single time because they
(08:59):
weren't allowed to practice itenough for it to become a stuck
fact in their head.
Those kinds of things,especially the ones where the
kids just weren't introduced tosomething, a topic, and weren't
given enough time, enoughpractice on it those are the
kids that it's really easy.
Get them into MTSS at tier two,maybe tier three also, and
(09:23):
practice, practice, practice,practice, really intensive
practice, and they're going tomaster those skills relatively
quickly and they can then goback out into not needing the
tier two and the tier threeprograms.
So, while MTSS was never meantto handle the vast majority of
(09:45):
our students.
The concepts behind MTSS andfixing that system can and will
really make a big difference inimproving what our students are
able to do, in filling in thosefoundational skill gaps that
they're exhibiting.
And I mean the fact is I haveI've helped a lot of kids get on
(10:10):
and maybe even a little bitabove grade level because they
weren't exposed and given enoughpractice.
I have several students thatI've worked with at the middle
school level that while theywere when they came to me, they
were reading at a kindergartenor maybe first grade level and
(10:32):
now they're reading at an end ofelementary, if not middle
school, level, and that's in oneyear.
And that's in working 30minutes three times a week.
If I can do that with studentswho are that far behind, get
them from reading basicallybeing illiterate to being able
(10:56):
to read, maybe a little bitbelow or on grade level, in a
year with 30 minutes, it'sabsolutely doable.
We can do this.
These kids can read, they canwrite, they can do math on grade
level if we fill in those skillgaps.
Now it's harder the older thekids get, the further into
(11:18):
school that they get, but theyneed it, they deserve it, they
deserve a good, high-qualityeducation where they can read,
write and do math.
And again, mtss, the conceptsbehind MTSS and that process of
trying something, collectingdata to see if it worked and
(11:40):
then making decisions on whetherwe're going to continue with
what we tried or try somethingdifferent with what we tried or
try something different.
That's just.
It's absolutely the best way tohelp kids get on grade level as
quickly as possible, which,let's face it, that's what we
need.
Additionally, mtss can be asystem of support for teachers.
(12:02):
A lot of times right now, mtssis another thing, it's another
piece of work, it's more, it'sstress it doesn't have to be and
it shouldn't be and resourcesand ideas to share the load.
(12:27):
Because the fact is the load isheavy.
The load is very, very heavy.
My friends and the teachers arehaving to haul this big load of
just stress and work and I mean70% of the kids can't read,
write or do math on grade level.
Writing I'd say it's probablycloser to 90%, let's be honest.
(12:48):
But these teachers, especiallyat the middle and high school
level, they are trying so hardto reach students who can't do
the basics, they can't do theprerequisite skills, and that is
a heavy, heavy, heavy load tobear, especially given that
middle and high school teachers.
(13:09):
They don't know how to teachkids how to read.
That was not part of what theywent to school for the chemistry
teachers, the physics teachers,the American history teachers
they didn't sit in classes andlearn oh, this is how you take a
child from illiterate toliterate.
They didn't learn that stuffand so they are having to try
(13:32):
and work with these students ina way that they don't know.
They don't know If we can getMTSS working the way it's
supposed to.
All of the teachers in a gradelevel or a subject area, however
you want to look at it, theycan work together to share this
massive load and make it easierfor them so that the wonderful
(13:56):
teachers that we have, the onesthat are persevering even in the
rough state of education thatwe have going right now we can
help them to get back to lovingwhat they felt called to do in
the beginning, that calling forthem that need to go and help
the future generation and teachthem things, whether it's
(14:19):
teaching them Shakespeare orteaching them about atoms,
photosynthesis and the AmericanRevolution, no matter what the
topic is that these teachers arepassionate about.
Teaching just meant so much tothem.
Burnt out, they're tired,they're exhausted, they're
frustrated we can use.
(14:42):
If we change MTSS, if we fixMTSS, that system, we can help
to bolster those teachers.
We can help to make teachingwonderful again, to make
teaching something that futuregenerations look at and go.
Yeah, I want to do that.
I truly believe, when it comesdown to it, that if we want to
(15:05):
fix the education system, yes,we have to get high quality,
tier one curriculum.
We need that desperately.
We have to have good, highquality teachers and we need
more high quality teachers.
We need more of them.
But even if we did both ofthose things tomorrow, I'll be
(15:27):
honest, I don't think that wouldfix education.
I think that what we absolutelyhave to do is fix the MTSS
system, make it doable, make itfriendly, make it something that
makes a difference.
Next week, when we come togetherI've talked a lot about that I
(15:48):
think we need to fix MTSS.
Next week, when we cometogether I've talked a lot about
that I think we need to fixMTSS.
Next week, we're going to talkabout what exactly is MTSS.
If you're involved in it, a lotof my friends think of it in
one way or another.
They think of it as this is howwe get kids into special
education.
Yada, yada, yada.
We're going to talk about whatactually is MTSS.
(16:08):
Hopefully that'll startshedding some light on how we
can fix this kind of disjointed,messed up system.
Until next time, may yourstudents be calm, your coffee
strong and, of course, as always, your students progressing Bye.
So last week I shared that we're going to be changing
things, shifting things around,just changing my focus, when it
comes down to it, of how I wantto really try and help
education.
I have been for several yearsnow talking about progress
(00:22):
monitoring and I do trulybelieve that if we want to
switch things around, we have tofill in those gaps that the
kids don't have, and the biggestway that I think that we can do
that is by fixing some things,some systems within the school
(00:45):
system, so that we can fix thesystem, the school system as a
whole.
So the first one that I want totalk about today is related to
the overwhelming number ofstudents who need MTSS supports
and the fact that the MTSSsupports and the fact that the
MTSS system was never designedto handle, you know, 70% of the
(01:11):
school population.
It was meant to, you know,support the 25% of students that
, theoretically, the Tier 1program was not supporting.
Well, we've got a flippedsystem right now.
So what we have to do is, firstof all, we've got to work on
(01:36):
the Tier 1.
But aside from that, we have tofix the MTSS system and make it
manageable so that schools canstart using the system properly
to get their students back ontrack.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
(02:02):
Hi, I'm Jessica Curtis ofTeaching Struggling Learners.
I'm a boy mom and a veteranteacher.
You're listening to theReaching Struggling Learners
podcast, where we talk all abouthelping students succeed
academically, socially andbehaviorally.
Thank you so much for tuning in, tuning in.
(02:36):
So last week, if you listenedin, we talked a little bit a lot
of it about the current stateof education, the state of
schools, and, quite frankly, ifyou are involved in education as
a teacher, an admin or a parent, you already know that schools
are in the midst of a massivestruggle right now.
Obviously goes without saying,we have to have high quality
tier one curriculum and we haveto have good teachers.
(02:58):
Right now, we are not supplyingthe good teachers that we have
with high quality curriculum,and that's something that
absolutely has to be addressedat the school board, the state,
even the administrative level,but that's kind of beyond my
purview.
When it comes down to it, thereare a lot of good quality tier
(03:22):
one curriculums out there.
There are a lot of good qualitytier one curriculums out there
and unfortunately, in my opinion, we have just stopped focusing
on the things that reallymattered.
When it comes down to it, wehave come up with all these
flighty, amazing things that wewant the kids to be able to do.
When it comes down to it, allparents or teachers or, you know
(03:46):
, businesses really want is theywant students and their workers
to be able to read, write anddo math.
That's it, and it's really notthat hard, and there are a lot
of tier one curriculums that cando that.
We've got to work on that.
Even the best curriculums thatI have seen and there are some
(04:08):
really good ones, there's someterrible ones, but there are
some really good ones Even thebest curriculums that are out
there, they're not going to beable to meet every single
student's needs, and I'm noteven talking about special
education, I'm talking about thevast majority of students.
No curriculum that has or everwill be sold is ever going to
(04:31):
meet every single student'sneeds, and that's really the
fundamental reason that we haveto have MTSS.
It's not a bad thing, becauseour students, just like our
society and our people, are notcookie cutter.
No two people are exactly thesame.
No two children are exactly thesame.
No two children learn exactlythe same way.
(04:52):
That's why tier one curriculumsneed to have differentiation
and different ways of learningmaterial.
But right now, right now, evenif we magically pulled out an
amazing, perfect curriculum thatwould reach 75, 80% of our
population, there's still goingto be the students who right now
(05:17):
don't have all the prerequisiteskills that they need.
They have skill gaps.
It is absolutely essential thatwe fix the MTSS system.
We have to get it workingproperly, including training
teachers, providing resources,you know, not just more work,
(05:37):
not more work for teachers,actual resources that are going
to make the MTSS process, theinterventions, progress
monitoring, the whole shebangeasier, more streamlined, so
that they can help theirstudents.
And then we also have to helpthe teachers track the
information again, progressmonitoring and collecting that
(06:00):
data, reporting that data sothat we can get kids doing basic
skills again.
When I talk to high school andmiddle school teachers, friends
of mine, every single one ofthem have the exact same
complaints the students don'thave basic skills.
Algebra teachers are unhappy,they're upset, they're
(06:24):
frustrated because theirstudents don't know the basic
addition, subtraction,multiplication and division
facts Forget division.
They don't even talk aboutdivision.
They're irritated that the kidsdon't know basic addition and
multiplication.
That's just basics.
That's not hard stuff, that'snot complicated, that's not word
problems.
They're so frustrated becausethe kids can't do the basics
(06:47):
English teachers, historyteachers, science teachers
they're frustrated because theirstudents can't read.
Not that the students are poorreaders, no, they're frustrated
because their students can'tread.
They're frustrated becausetheir students who are in middle
and high school they cannotgive them an assignment to write
a single paragraph on a topicthat the students cannot
(07:12):
complete.
A one sentence, cannot write asingle sentence with
capitalization, punctuation andyou know kind of correct
spelling.
It's the basics that theteachers at the upper grades and
beyond are really frustratedthat their students can't do.
That's skill gaps right therewhich MTSS could help.
(07:32):
We know this.
Mtss was not built to handle70% of kids being below what we
consider to be grade level to bestruggling in school, but it
can help to bring the kids up tospeed quickly.
That system in general, a lotof the kids.
Honestly, I have tutored andworked with a lot of kids over
(07:56):
the years and the vast majorityof those students the reason
that they were struggling withreading, writing, math was
because they were really neverintroduced to the topics and the
topics were not reinforced.
Do not think for a second thatI am bashing teachers.
I am not bashing teachers.
(08:16):
If teachers had a high qualitytier one curriculum, this
wouldn't be a problem.
We wouldn't be having thisdiscussion at all.
But the students that I'veworked with many, many times,
they weren't taught the basicphonics skills.
They weren't taught how todecode words properly.
So that makes it really reallyhard to, you know, read new
(08:38):
words.
The students, yeah, theylearned addition.
They learned that you know 5plus 3 equals 8.
But it was not practiced to thepoint that 5 plus 3 is 8 is an
automatic skill.
It's a fact that the studentjust knows.
They have to figure it outevery single time because they
(08:59):
weren't allowed to practice itenough for it to become a stuck
fact in their head.
Those kinds of things,especially the ones where the
kids just weren't introduced tosomething, a topic, and weren't
given enough time, enoughpractice on it those are the
kids that it's really easy.
Get them into MTSS at tier two,maybe tier three also, and
(09:23):
practice, practice, practice,practice, really intensive
practice, and they're going tomaster those skills relatively
quickly and they can then goback out into not needing the
tier two and the tier threeprograms.
So, while MTSS was never meantto handle the vast majority of
(09:45):
our students.
The concepts behind MTSS andfixing that system can and will
really make a big difference inimproving what our students are
able to do, in filling in thosefoundational skill gaps that
they're exhibiting.
And I mean the fact is I haveI've helped a lot of kids get on
(10:10):
and maybe even a little bitabove grade level because they
weren't exposed and given enoughpractice.
I have several students thatI've worked with at the middle
school level that while theywere when they came to me, they
were reading at a kindergartenor maybe first grade level and
(10:32):
now they're reading at an end ofelementary, if not middle
school, level, and that's in oneyear.
And that's in working 30minutes three times a week.
If I can do that with studentswho are that far behind, get
them from reading basicallybeing illiterate to being able
(10:56):
to read, maybe a little bitbelow or on grade level, in a
year with 30 minutes, it'sabsolutely doable.
We can do this.
These kids can read, they canwrite, they can do math on grade
level if we fill in those skillgaps.
Now it's harder the older thekids get, the further into
(11:18):
school that they get, but theyneed it, they deserve it, they
deserve a good, high-qualityeducation where they can read,
write and do math.
And again, mtss, the conceptsbehind MTSS and that process of
trying something, collectingdata to see if it worked and
(11:40):
then making decisions on whetherwe're going to continue with
what we tried or try somethingdifferent with what we tried or
try something different.
That's just.
It's absolutely the best way tohelp kids get on grade level as
quickly as possible, which,let's face it, that's what we
need.
Additionally, mtss can be asystem of support for teachers.
(12:02):
A lot of times right now, mtssis another thing, it's another
piece of work, it's more, it'sstress it doesn't have to be and
it shouldn't be and resourcesand ideas to share the load.
(12:27):
Because the fact is the load isheavy.
The load is very, very heavy.
My friends and the teachers arehaving to haul this big load of
just stress and work and I mean70% of the kids can't read,
write or do math on grade level.
Writing I'd say it's probablycloser to 90%, let's be honest.
(12:48):
But these teachers, especiallyat the middle and high school
level, they are trying so hardto reach students who can't do
the basics, they can't do theprerequisite skills, and that is
a heavy, heavy, heavy load tobear, especially given that
middle and high school teachers.
(13:09):
They don't know how to teachkids how to read.
That was not part of what theywent to school for the chemistry
teachers, the physics teachers,the American history teachers
they didn't sit in classes andlearn oh, this is how you take a
child from illiterate toliterate.
They didn't learn that stuffand so they are having to try
(13:32):
and work with these students ina way that they don't know.
They don't know If we can getMTSS working the way it's
supposed to.
All of the teachers in a gradelevel or a subject area, however
you want to look at it, theycan work together to share this
massive load and make it easierfor them so that the wonderful
(13:56):
teachers that we have, the onesthat are persevering even in the
rough state of education thatwe have going right now we can
help them to get back to lovingwhat they felt called to do in
the beginning, that calling forthem that need to go and help
the future generation and teachthem things, whether it's
(14:19):
teaching them Shakespeare orteaching them about atoms,
photosynthesis and the AmericanRevolution, no matter what the
topic is that these teachers arepassionate about.
Teaching just meant so much tothem.
Burnt out, they're tired,they're exhausted, they're
frustrated we can use.
(14:42):
If we change MTSS, if we fixMTSS, that system, we can help
to bolster those teachers.
We can help to make teachingwonderful again, to make
teaching something that futuregenerations look at and go.
Yeah, I want to do that.
I truly believe, when it comesdown to it, that if we want to
(15:05):
fix the education system, yes,we have to get high quality,
tier one curriculum.
We need that desperately.
We have to have good, highquality teachers and we need
more high quality teachers.
We need more of them.
But even if we did both ofthose things tomorrow, I'll be
(15:27):
honest, I don't think that wouldfix education.
I think that what we absolutelyhave to do is fix the MTSS
system, make it doable, make itfriendly, make it something that
makes a difference.
Next week, when we come togetherI've talked a lot about that I
(15:48):
think we need to fix MTSS.
Next week, when we cometogether I've talked a lot about
that I think we need to fixMTSS.
Next week, we're going to talkabout what exactly is MTSS.
If you're involved in it, a lotof my friends think of it in
one way or another.
They think of it as this is howwe get kids into special
education.
Yada, yada, yada.
We're going to talk about whatactually is MTSS.
(16:08):
Hopefully that'll startshedding some light on how we
can fix this kind of disjointed,messed up system.
Until next time, may yourstudents be calm, your coffee
strong and, of course, as always, your students progressing Bye.
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