April 30, 2025 • 46 mins
LS Kirkpatrick and Kate Nicholas explore Kate's book, "Sea Changed," and her inspiring journey through cancer and faith. Kate discusses her diagnosis, the role of memory in her spiritual path, and the influence of C.S. Lewis. She shares her miraculous healing, confirmed by doctors, and reads a passage from her book. The episode covers her transition to writing, speaking, and TV presenting, and the impact of "Sea Changed." Kate addresses misconceptions about God and illness, insights from World Vision, and provides book availability details. The episode concludes with gratitude to listeners.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Welcome to another episode of reading betweenthe words.
And today, we've got Anne here.
She's or Kate.
I'm sorry.
I've been been formatting my other book, and Ithink too many names are altogether.
It's wonderful.
I've got the giving book volume four comingout.
I have over 35 contributors in it.
(00:34):
So I apologize, Kate, for misspeaking yourname.
And and
I know you're trying to
Yeah.
Kate Kate and I are just both we had to take aten minute break from what we were doing.
I'm formatting.
She's writing her book, and so we're gonna takea break and breathe a little bit and talk to
you about the book that she has already.
(00:56):
So tell us the title of your book, Kate.
Thank you.
It's great to be here again.
It really is.
And, again, the book I want to talk about todayis called See Changed, and it's my memoir.
It's the first book I wrote actually, and it'sabout my very unconventional journey of faith
and of healing from advanced cancer.
(01:16):
Oh, wow.
Oh, wow.
Do you do you have your book so we can see itfor those that are gonna be watching on
YouTube?
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Here it is.
Yeah.
This is
a cover.
Yeah.
Really beautiful cover by a wonderfulillustrator who works my publisher works with
all my books.
So, yeah, I really love the cover of this.
And, yeah, this was actually this was actuallymy first book.
(01:37):
I will say that it took, cancers turn me intoan author.
I was brought up with words.
I was a current affairs journalist.
I used to be global communications chief forthe Christian charity World Vision.
And it wasn't actually until I spent my lifetelling other people's stories and it wasn't
until I was diagnosed with cancer that I beganto think about telling my own.
(02:01):
It was back in 02/2014 I was diagnosed with,yeah, inoperable stage four breast cancer.
And I I was told that the breast cancer hadspread around pericardial sac around my heart
into the medicinal layer around my lungs and upunder my collarbone, and it it really wasn't a
(02:23):
good prognosis.
I actually they wouldn't say how much time Ihad left, but I went online and found a
reputable medical journal which said that eighteighty five percent of people whose cancer
spread of mine had, died within twelve monthsOh, which was a bit of a shock.
And my husband actually banned me off Googleafter that, told me not to get anywhere near it
(02:44):
again.
But yeah.
So it was it was a very, very tough very, verytough.
Was my children were then 16 and 10 years old,and I I remember the day I told them.
I think it was probably the hardest day of mylife.
And, I actually wrote the book for them.
I wrote it while going through treatment foradvanced cancer originally for them.
(03:08):
I think when you're in that kind of situation,you you obviously think about what you're going
to leave.
I had to face the fact that I'm maybe going toleave them.
And I started to put together, memory boxes forthem.
You know, I got had quilts made up for theirfirst children from their baby clothes and
things like this and did cards for theirwedding day, cards for their 20 birthdays.
(03:31):
Oh.
And I stopped oh, it was just it was it wasactually an incredible experience to do that.
I found it very helpful, actually.
Think a lot of people do.
Although it poignant of course.
And I started to put together photographalbums.
I had hundreds of photographs and weren't noworganized.
So I started to put together the photographalbums.
And I looked at these things and thought, well,they've shown where I've been in my life, where
(03:53):
places I've been to, and they shown that I'vegot grayer and I've got a bit fatter, but they
don't actually they don't show anything abouthow I saw the world, about how I understood the
world, and I'm what I believed.
And I realized that if I was going to conveysomething that I needed words, which is how I
started thinking about writing down my story.
(04:16):
I have actually written journals all my lifeand I'd say to anybody who's thinking about
ever writing, they should keep journals.
They're incredibly important.
Except my handwriting is so bad.
My family will say make a good doctor, youknow, that scrawl.
And I looked at these journals and thought,they will never read these.
I can hardly read them so they'll never readthem.
So I started writing.
(04:37):
And I think it's, I hear it's amazing.
Some of the nurses, I think they thought I wasmad.
I was in hospital beds tapping away on mycomputer linked up to various tubes and things.
But it was it in a way, doing that was a bit ofa gift.
It's, I've always been really actionorientated.
I have always been constantly on the go.
(04:58):
At that time, I was working with World Vision.
I was spending a lot of my time traveling.
And I think being on the go is how I missed thesigns in the first place because I didn't stop
long enough.
And I like to say now, ladies, please checkyourselves.
And if you're offered a mammogram, please goand take it because a mammogram has actually
(05:20):
saved my life as I talked about in anotherpodcast with you.
But I think for the first time, I was actuallyforced to be still.
Yeah.
To actually I I I cancer brought me to astandstill and I could hardly read.
I found it quite hard to kind of concentrate onthings.
(05:40):
And so I found I was able to look back over mylife for the first time And I began to see, you
know, I began to see how God has actually beenthere for me.
And so I haven't always been a Christian.
Mhmm.
I could tell you a bit about my faith journey.
I mean, a way, SeaChange is a story of thisrather unconventional faith journey.
(06:03):
I don't think anyone could have predicted thatI would actually end up being a preacher in the
Church of England.
I'm I'm actually on the ministry team of thechurch where John Newton wrote the world famous
hymn Amazing Grace.
Oh, nice.
Which is an incredible blessing.
Yeah.
Quite famous church in a place called Oney inBuckinghamshire.
(06:23):
But I was brought up I was actually brought upas a Christian as a child by my mother who was
a Baptist.
But I was very, very influenced by my fatherwho was a brilliant father eccentric poet.
And he he I think these days, he would havebeen diagnosed as bipolar.
(06:43):
But in those days, they didn't reallyunderstand mental health as well then.
Right.
And he was really left over to his own devices.
And I was as a teenager, I he he used to talkabout how down he was, and I was absolutely
terrified that he was gonna take his own life.
Oh, wow.
But I and I turned to the church as one woulddo and to say I I I wanted to seek I said,
(07:07):
well, don't I wanted to seek an answer.
I wanted to seek help.
And I just nobody seemed to be able to give mea satisfactory answer.
How could god love this god of love loved myfather so much and let him suffer like this?
And nobody could really tell me.
And I actually got very angry.
I I thought I was angry with God.
I think I was actually angry with the church.
(07:28):
And I actually turned my back in anger andwalked away when I was a young when I was a
young adult.
But I think what see changes is in a way is thestory of how God brought me back to him.
I think it's as if he put a piece I look backand see it was like he put a piece of elastic
on me and was drawing me back over time.
(07:51):
And it it was a pretty long unwinding journey.
I became I think a bit of a seeker.
I got I went to university in a place calledAberystwyth in Wales which is a bit new age.
And I got involved I got very interested in allsorts of weird and wonderful things.
But it was very interesting Celtic Christianityactually, which is all about understanding God
(08:12):
through his creation, through nature is quiteinteresting.
I used to when you're living by the sea, it's arather wonderful thing to think about looking
at the horizon, thinking about eternity.
But I also, I also ended up at one pointstudying Buddhism in the Dalai Lama School in
Dhamshular in India, which is a bit of a kindof detour.
(08:35):
But actually, I think it was there I began tobegin to my faith began to reignite because I
couldn't make sense of the world they weredescribing.
A world where, like, oh, it just didn't makesense to me.
And solely, I think over time I'm quite arationalist.
I'm a former current affairs journalist so Icould have I think my faith was very much at
(08:56):
the head to begin with.
I started reading a lot of books.
Have you ever I don't if you've read much C.
S.
Lewis.
Have you read much C.
S.
Lewis?
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Well, in his wonderful book, Mere Christianity,which was this, kind of series of radio lecture
he gave on Radio four in England.
He he talks about the fact that, you know, thatJesus either had to be mad, insane, bad, or he
(09:20):
had to be who he said he was, the son of god.
And I think I pretty much reached thatconclusion.
I thought he definitely wasn't bad.
He was so immensely good.
He wasn't insane.
He spoke greater sanity than just about anyother human being who walked the earth.
So he had to be who he said he was.
And from that point onwards, I think when Iaccepted that, then everything began to change.
(09:47):
Yeah.
That's wow.
That is one incredible journey.
You know, you talked about leaving these boxesor or something for your kids, and and I've
kind of been doing the same thing.
I have these steamer trucks and one for each ofthe kids, and I put things in there for the
(10:07):
grandkids now too.
But I write on there what it is.
And, you know, I have a piece of paper.
A lot of times, it's like jewelry or somethingthat was my mother's or my dad's or something
that that was special when they were reallittle.
And then I put it inside the trucks, and I'velet the kids know that everything is in a truck
(10:29):
because they don't know what to do.
You know?
You don't wanna leave a whole lot of stuff.
I have stuff that was handed down to me from mygrandparents.
And and so I want them to understand themeaning behind it, what it means to me.
Plus, it gives me a place to put it so it's outof the way.
It's not cluttering up.
You know, steamer trunks actually make goodfurniture and and things like that.
(10:53):
So, yeah, it's important to to do somethingnow.
So when we do pass, the kids are not left withthis huge burden of, oh my gosh.
What do I do with all of this stuff?
They already know that if it's in the trunk,it's already sorted out.
It's already delegated.
If there's anything else there, they can figurethat out or they can just get rid of all of it.
(11:16):
You know?
It's it's not that big of a deal.
So that's a really good idea.
I love what you said too was there's all thesethings, but they don't know the emotion.
They don't know the tie that you have withthem.
They don't know why it mattered to you and whyyou want it to matter to them.
And so writing your story was a really greatgenius idea to do.
(11:41):
And and it's too bad sometimes it takessomething really dramatic to happen to us to
start this process.
So for those that are listening, this is thisis your door of opportunity knocking or this is
your warning or whatever it is.
Do something now.
You know, if you have knickknacks on the shelfor things that have been handed down, take a
(12:04):
piece of of painter's tape because it comes offreal easy.
It doesn't leave sticky residue, and just putthat on there and write the your child's name
or whoever you want it to go to, put their nameon it so you know.
But the important things to do are write downthe things that they can't see and can't hold.
(12:25):
Write down those memories.
So for Christmas this year, I just sent out thetext to my kids, and I says, grandma wants one
thing from each of the grandkids.
And I want you to want them to write me aletter, but in it, I want them to tell me
what's one of their best memories of me.
(12:46):
Or if they have two of them, what are those?
And then tell me why it's their best memory.
And I'm gonna do the same for them.
They just don't know that yet.
So so there's things you can do.
I think it's such a I'm see, I remember when II was talking I'll come on this in a moment
about what happened after this, but the factthat I was talking, I was talking to a group in
(13:09):
a very large church in a place called Readingin England.
And at the end of it, this woman got up andsaid, I wish I could do what you've done and
look back over my life and see how God's atwork, but preferably without the cancer
diagnosis.
And that sort of gave me an idea.
And I think what I I come up with this conceptthis this concept that got hitting me was this
idea of soul story.
(13:31):
I think a lot of us think that our lives aren'tthat dramatic, our lives aren't eventful enough
to share.
But I think all of us have got a part a storyto tell about the part of us that connects with
the infinite, that connects with God, that sortof search for meaning by how we see the world.
And then I've heard some amazing stories frompeople who would think they're very ordinary.
(13:52):
Actually, their stories are quiteextraordinary, you know.
And I'm saying, without getting ahead ofmyself, I did write this book here, which I can
talk to you about at some point, about calledSoul Stride.
And that the whole idea of this was in responseto that woman's question was it guides people
through how to understand what you call yoursoul story and then how to share it.
And that was a book I came up with.
(14:13):
But I'm getting ahead of myself because thefact that I'm talking to you, of course, is a
bit of a spoiler for all of my books,particularly for Sea Changed.
Yes.
Because there I was, lying in hospital bedswith a diagnosis and a prognosis which I I saw
I I didn't expect to see an awful lot more lifeahead of me.
(14:37):
And I actually, of course, never dreamt thatwhat I was writing would be anything more than
just something ring bound for the children.
And it's it's I believe that I'm gonna say ifwe talk first of about what happened because I
believe something miraculous happened.
In the book in the sea yeah.
It's in book, in the sea change, I talk abouthow I just my family and I said we weren't
(15:01):
gonna give up hope.
Despite what we've been told, we weren't gonnagive up hope.
I actually spent a lot of time studying thebible, what it has said about healing, this
idea that god is Jehovah Rapha.
He calls himself in Exodus.
Exodus fifteen twenty six, he calls himselfJehovah Rapha, the god who heals.
Yes.
And the Greek word used for save, I found out alot in New Testament is sozo, which actually
(15:27):
means also healing and wholeness, which Iloved.
Yes.
And, of course, there's all those accounts inthe New Testament.
You know, 31 accounts of Jesus going aroundhealing people and about 20, plus accounts of
mass healings.
And I I as an ex current affairs journalist, II still had a heavy dose of skepticism.
(15:47):
Yeah.
I was quite cynical, and I was particularlycynical about television healers.
I've seen various healers, you know, kind ofwith people kind of jumping out of wheelchairs
and throwing away their crutches and asking forlarge donations and all my skeptical filters
were on.
But I was persuaded to go and see a group nearme in in Buckinghamshire in England who were a
(16:11):
reputable group.
They're part of something called the ChristianHealing Mission.
And I went to go and see them.
And I remember I don't know what I expected,but there was this lady who's about about my
age now, about 60, and a parker opened the doorand said, hello, love.
Come in, love a tea and a biscuit.
And I thought, well, I don't know what I wasexpecting, but I thought maybe a bit more
theater.
(16:32):
Yeah.
But the experience I had there was so powerful.
We sat in this tiny room and had a couplepeople praying over me.
And I I talk about in my book that experience,and it was it was a bit like electricity was
passing through my body.
It was quite amazing.
And through them, I came to see that I neededto leave a door open.
(16:56):
I needed to leave a door open.
Now, I'm not gonna tell you the whole story.
You have to read the book.
You have to read SeaChange.
But I I can't as I say, the spoiler is I'mtalking to you, but I can tell you that God's
healing began even before the first treatment.
Wow.
I went when I was first told I went to go andsee a radiologist.
(17:19):
I was told I had to go and have a scan.
And when she first scanned me, I remember shesaid to me, oh, there's masses of cancer and it
spread.
And I thought, oh, it's just not the last thingyou want to hear, you know.
It's a soul wrenching moment when someone tellsyou that.
And I then went to see an oncologist and theysaid although it's inoperable, they would give
me chemotherapy.
(17:40):
And I went back two weeks later to have thebenchmarking scan.
That's the scan you have before you startchemotherapy so they can tell how it's
progressing.
And when I went in, I laid down, she scanned meagain.
And as she was scanning me, she said, have youstarted your treatment yet?
And I thought, well, that's a bit of an oddquestion.
This is my pretreatment scan.
(18:00):
Yeah.
But I think in that vulnerable state, you tendI I found I didn't tend to question medics.
You just feel like you need to just trust them,you know?
You don't want to question them.
But as I was leaving, felt this kind ofprompting and I just turned around and said,
why did you ask me if this was my first if ifI'd started treatment yet?
(18:21):
And she just said, well, it's very odd.
I don't understand it, she said.
But the cancer has shrunk by quite a lot.
And I just said, well, there's a lot of peoplepraying for me.
And I remember she just held up her hands.
Wow.
And I it's in the book, I tell the entire storyof how I ended up being still here.
(18:44):
And one thing that's very important to say ismy book has been signed off by my oncologist,
my surgeon, my radiologist, and mycardiologist.
It was really, really important to me that mybook was completely medically accurate.
Okay.
And and the thing that they all said was thereare aspects to this, your recovery, that we
(19:06):
cannot understand.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They said there I I I they said there areaspects we just can't explain.
And from that basis, they were willing to signoff on my book.
But not only is willing, but help very eager tosign off on my book.
Wow.
I think they love seeing these kind of thesekind of moments where someone defies all the
odds.
It's a wonderful moment for them as wellbecause they get very close to their patients.
(19:31):
Yes.
I think we sometimes don't realize just howheart this heart soul wrenchy it can be to see
people they've come to know coming to the endof their lives in a way far too soon.
But I think one thing I'm very clear about inthe book in See Changed is that I don't begin
(19:53):
to really understand this difficult thisdifficult issue why some people are healed and
some aren't.
Yeah.
I've I've lost too many people to cancer.
I lost my very dearest, my best friend, in Juneto a rare form of cancer.
She had literally three weeks from diagnosisuntil she passed away, and I was with her at
(20:15):
the end.
So I I don't understand.
She had faith.
She had faith.
I think I what I would say is I had absolutelywonderful medical care, and I would never ever
advocate that somebody fights something likecancer on a diet of prayer and carrots.
It's, you know, I think that Yeah.
(20:37):
I'm just because I know some people there is akind of there's a sense I've had I come across
people who seem to think that somehow by takingmedical intervention that it's a kind of
betrayal of their faith that it shows theirfaith isn't strong enough.
And to which I find bewildering because, youknow, I believe that doctors are God's hands
(20:59):
and feet.
He works through them in the world.
All the great scientific breakthroughs we'vehad have come from him.
He says he's Jesus was called his wisdom, youknow.
And all of the ingredients that go into thesemedicate medicines come from his creation.
The idea that something lies beyond that, itjust seems nonsensical as what lies beyond
(21:22):
God's purview.
You know?
There is nothing that lies God gone beyondGod's purview.
But I think probably what I have come tounderstand during this journey, and I talk
about in the book a lot, is that I think God'shealing is sometimes something bigger than.
I think it may not even include a cure.
(21:43):
I think it comes in many different forms.
And I think possibly the most profound healingthat I experienced was this deep and almost
inexplicable sense of peace that I was given.
I remember I I I was in the oncologist's officeand my husband said to me when we first told my
(22:07):
prognosis and just how bad it was, he saidthere was this incredible calm just descended
over me.
And I can remember the oncologist kept saying,Kate, you do understand the implications of
what I'm telling you, don't you?
But eventually I said, yes.
You're telling me I'm dying.
And he was seemed completely bewildered.
And afterwards, my husband said to me, he said,Kate, I know it didn't come from you because
(22:32):
you could borrow the leg off a table, which Irather liked.
Yeah.
It's I wasn't in the thing is I wasn't indenial.
I think some people said to me, were you indenial?
I wasn't in denial.
I actually put my affairs in order.
There's even a funeral plan.
(22:53):
But somehow, I was able to hold on to tworealities in my mind at once.
One in which I was able to be healed and theother in which I was going to leave my family
sooner than I wanted to.
And somehow, I was able to hold those twotogether and they weren't intention.
(23:17):
And I think the only way that I can reallyexplain that is faith.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes there's things beyond what what wecan, at the moment, hang on to to explain.
You can't explain it.
(23:37):
There's things in the world you can't explain,and that's okay.
You know?
That's okay.
That's okay.
We don't need to know everything.
We don't need to explain everything.
Soon enough.
I think there's this you know, we talk aboutbattling cancer.
It's a very common phrase, isn't it?
You know, people say they have to battle withcancer.
I think that's quite a frightening idea,really, because it implies that it's down to us
(24:03):
whether we're gonna actually get whether we'regonna get through cancer or not.
Yeah.
And that's a heavy, heavy burden to bear.
And I think I I think one of the things I'llsay to people who are going through this is try
to let go of that idea or at least recognizeyou're not fighting it alone.
Mhmm.
Because I think, you know, this idea you know,I think the experience what I would say
(24:25):
throughout this is I had this experience of notbeing alone was almost incandescent.
I felt as if there was somebody with me,somebody holding me up.
And and I think it's and I think it's I wasalmost like I was existing on the border for a
while between the natural and the supernatural.
(24:46):
It's like I was I was on the border of life anddeath, I suppose.
Yeah.
It gives you a different perspective gives youa different perspective when you're in that
situation.
And, what I would say is I had this kind ofalmost heightened sense of awareness of the
beauty of everything around me.
And it was and I I somehow saw things in a waythat I hadn't seen before as if they suddenly
(25:09):
come into become crystal clear.
They suddenly gone into full multicolor, youknow?
And and even when I was really sick, I kind offelt this real sense of almost joy of being
alive that day, which is hard to describe.
Should I can I just read you a bit from
the book?
Please.
I was just gonna ask if
you could
read from your book.
(25:30):
Yeah.
Because I think it gives it gives an idea ofthis.
This is just a passage about about something ofthat kind of way I felt, you know.
Okay.
The treatments took place in a three week cycleand even though the dosage had been reduced to
avoid another calamity, my neutrophil countremained so low for two weeks following
treatment that I had to limit my contact withother human beings.
(25:55):
When my children came home from school withcoughs and sneezes, I was confined to my
bedroom to ensure that I wasn't infected.
My world has shrunk so rapidly.
Only a few months before, I had thought nothingof traveling to Asia 1 Week and Africa the
next.
But for the first week after each chemotherapycycle, I could hardly lift my battered body off
(26:18):
the bed.
I would lie on my back watching the sunlightfilter through the skylights in our bedroom as
I had done when I was pregnant with mydaughter.
I remembered how I used to watch the cloudsthrough the window of our flat in London,
feeling the first stirrings of life within meand recognize with bitter irony that what was
(26:39):
now growing within me may well rob me of life.
As I lay in bed in the morning and listened tothe house come to life, the children chatting
downstairs and the clatter of pots in thekitchen, I also felt an unexpected joy in my
heart and thank God that I was surrounded byfamily.
I was painfully aware that many others werefacing cancer alone.
(27:04):
Even when the effects of chemotherapy were attheir worst, when I was so weak I could barely
stand, I was grateful for simply being aliveand would greet the day praying, this is the
day the Lord has made.
Let us rejoice and be glad in it.
In the early hours of the morning when sleepeluded me, when the pain of cancer bore into my
(27:26):
soul and the chemicals in my veins made meshake uncontrollably.
I sometimes felt a comforting presence besideme.
One night as I lay racked and groaning on thebed, I felt a soft touch of my head as if an
unseen hand was stroking my temple, and I feltmyself relax into merciful sleep.
(27:49):
On better days, I would force myself out of thehouse and wander unsteadily up the lane.
As I walked in the Christmas of the morning,the air seemed electric, sharper and brighter
than I ever remembered.
It was as if I was seeing the world moreclearly.
Every blade of grass, veined leaf, wheat stalk,and gnarled trunk, ripening apple and
(28:12):
blackberries stood out in sharp relief.
As the clouds rolled away to reveal azure sky,I became acutely conscious of the variety of
life around me.
The butterflies fitting among the late summerblossoms, the songs of starlings above the
scuttle of shrew into an undergrowth, rabbitsheading for burrows and deer for the woods.
(28:35):
I walked as if in a dream.
All I could feel was joy at being alive in thesense of God's presence.
Once again, I wandered the fields as I had doneas a child, bathing in the sense of the
numinous, the God that I now knew.
At the top of the field looking out over thevalley, a place where I'd often gone to pray
(28:56):
over the years, I lifted my hands in thanks andfelt the pain leaving my body as if it was
lifted up by the wind.
Wow.
That is so beautiful.
Let's see.
Okay.
I'm getting another book.
I don't
(29:17):
have enough.
It's it seems like a lot of people said how howcomforting they found it.
I didn't shy away from the reality of thesituation.
And I wrote the book in the belief that I wasnot going to be here.
(29:38):
So it's written there is a there is a intensityto it that comes from the fact it was written
by a woman who believed she was dying.
Right.
And obviously, against as you can see, againstall odds I survived.
It was an interesting situation because I thenI gave a copy of this, what I've written to a
friend of mine.
She said to me, I think you need to get thispublished, which I hadn't thought of before.
(30:01):
And and I and I and I was I I thought, okay.
My mother had been a best selling author andshe had I knew from her how hard it was to get
a literary agent or how hard it was to get apublisher.
And I just didn't feel strong enough.
So what I did is I bought there's a book calledthe Writers and Artists Yearbook, which in The
(30:21):
United Kingdom is like the bible forpublishers, for for writers.
It helps you to find a publisher.
And I went through it and I got to a and I sawAuthentic Media, a publisher who was based just
down the road from me who focused oninspirational biographies.
And I thought, okay, that sounds like it'sgonna be it.
But I thought I'm going tidy this up firstbecause, of course, I didn't think I was going
(30:45):
to be around to see people's reactions to thebook and and I thought, well, maybe there's
things on this I'd like to smooth out a bit,you know.
Not to whitewash, but just maybe to take awaysome of the vulnerability of it.
But a friend of mine, I've talked to him aboutthis and I've talked to a friend of mine at
World Vision, he said, oh, I know I know thechief executive of a company, he said, who I
(31:08):
think could be really interested in this.
He said, their name's Authentic Media.
And I was like, well, Wow.
All the thousands of publishers the same one.
And before I could stop before I could stophim, he pinged off an email.
Oh, wow.
There and then while I was sitting there, I I II we got a response the same day asking me to
(31:28):
send the manuscript.
And I so I didn't have and I remember thinking,oh my goodness.
I wanted more time to kind of, you know, tidythis up and everything.
But I thought, okay.
I'll just have to do this.
So I sent the manuscript and it it actuallywent on to be published.
It was nominated as a biographer of the year inThe UK, CRT Biographer of the year in 02/2017.
(31:52):
It went on to become a bestseller and it's it'sgone a life of its own.
And a lot of people have said to me, actually,it's the vulnerability that makes it so very
powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the fact that you didn't kind of, youknow, skirt over things.
And I think it really became a book.
It went beyond my children.
It it became a book for anyone who felt maybethey were facing challenges and wondered where
(32:17):
God was in the in the face of adversity.
And I think I also wanted to reassure peoplethat the surest path to faith isn't always a
straight line.
Mine was certainly quite a winding journey.
And, also, I think that God can be found insome really unexpected places, including even
(32:38):
in a cancer diagnosis.
Yes.
Yes.
Definitely.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
When I was it's it's it's this one's about.
I can hardly wait to get to the next book youhave.
Well, this was this was actually my first book.
(32:59):
It's and it's it when I was ill, I one thing Ikept holding on to like a life rafters, quite
early on, I I don't know if you've ever hadthis, but you get to kind of I had a passage of
scripture that kept coming to me from variousangles.
Yes.
People kept giving it to me or it kept poppingup in books, and and the passage for me was
Psalm a hundred and eighteen seventeen.
(33:19):
I will not die, but live and declare the worksof the Lord.
Oh, wow.
Which is incredible.
And I I held on to this thing.
And when, against all odds, I was declared incomplete remission from cancer, I I I really
made this the mission of my life.
I could've thought, well, God's kept his sideof the bargain.
I think I better keep mine.
(33:41):
Yeah.
There you go.
And so so I really made this wish.
I actually stepped out of World Vision.
I adored World Vision, the most incredibleorganization, do the most amazing work with
some of the most vulnerable children in theworld in in in very tough places.
And I it was with regret I stepped back, but Icouldn't keep on doing a global role and do the
traveling.
(34:01):
I remember I got on a plane to go to Bogota inColombia and got on like this and I got off
fourteen hours later in a wheelchair.
I thought, Kate, you gotta face reality.
Yeah.
So I stepped out and I started to really focuson write on my writing.
And I'm first of all, I start to share thestories.
It's amazing how doors opened.
I've now shared my story at churches, atevents, at conferences all over The UK, and as
(34:28):
far afield as Australia and Kenya.
Hopefully, one day maybe in America as well.
There you go.
And I I I was also hosted I was also I went togo and have an interview with, a channel called
TBN, which, in The UK is on Sky and Freeview,but it's also available in The US.
And I went to go and have an interview and atthe end of it, the, the interviewer who was
(34:51):
also the director of the channel said to me,Kate, I think I've got off for your own show.
I nearly fell off my chair.
I was fifth I was 55 years old.
That is not you know, most women presenters arebeing put out to pastor then.
Yeah.
So I became a so I became a TV presenter and Idid two series of a show called Living a
Transformed Life which, interviewed, otherpeople with amazing stories of transformation.
(35:18):
And one of the other things I did at that timewas, I wrote this book which is a companion to
the TV show but also to see changed.
And it's called see changed a companion guidebecause I think a lot of people had sort of had
reflected back to me this kind of interest inhow god shows up in the different challenges of
our life and the different things that happen.
(35:39):
So it's a 12 part reflection guide which takespeople through and shows how god uses all the
circumstances in our lives to help to kind ofto transform us, to kind of bring us to him
from the kind of like the mountaintop momentswhere we have these I think many of us have
these kind of whether you believe in aChristian God or with Jesus or whether you or
(36:01):
we have other faith.
I think, you know, people have this kind ofmoment where they feel closer to the sense of
the divine, you know.
But so how how he uses those moments, but alsothe ones where we're in the valleys, you know,
where we're really, really in the valleys.
Yes.
And I remember my my dear publisher, he came tosee me about, we've had coffee together about
(36:23):
two months before the show was due to go onair.
And she said to me, I wonder if you can justit'd be quite easy, wouldn't it, to just edit
those scripts into a book?
Let's put it out as a book.
She gave me four weeks.
I can Okay.
That writing the screen is not the same aswriting a book.
No.
(36:43):
I didn't sleep I didn't sleep a lot that month.
But, yeah, so it goes so these two, you can seehere, we use the same wonderful cover.
So these two sort of go together.
This is my story.
That helps you to understand how God's workingin your life.
So it came out.
That was wonderful.
And that I've done some workshops around thatas well.
And I went on to write then, then I wrote SoulScribe which came from this idea of, you know,
(37:07):
the woman saying how do I share my story whichbuilds on this.
And then, as I talked to you about in a recentpodcast, I wrote my latest book, To the Ocean
Floor, which was about my second cancer journeybecause my cancer came back in midst of the
pandemic.
And and we've talked about that length, but Ithink I I think you can point people in the
(37:31):
direction of the podcast we did around that.
Right.
Yeah.
It talks a lot about this.
Yeah.
It'll be
on the website too reading between the words.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's it's really interesting.
I've once sponsored a radio interview and thisinterviewer said to me, she said, it's really
strange, she said.
(37:52):
It almost sounds as if cancer was a gift.
I've thought about that really long and hardbecause it was a very all a very strange,
challenging statement.
Yeah.
I think I think I could say that, of course, Iwish I hadn't had cancer.
My family have been to hell and back.
They have they have had the most difficulttime.
(38:13):
My children had to face the fact they weregoing to potentially lose their mother once.
And as I talk about into the ocean floor, mysecond cancer journey brought me to the border
of death.
It was a very, very significant journey I wenton.
But it's really hard to weigh wish awayeverything that came with it because it's
(38:35):
almost if God took these lemons in my life andmade lemonade out of them, you know?
Yeah.
He could have used this and I never dreamt thatmy life would go down this track, that I'd
become an author, that I would end up sharingin this way.
Or have the immense privilege of because I gospeak up because I do a lot of speaking at
(38:56):
events, meeting other people and hearing theirstories.
So it's hard to wish all that away.
I think it's it's it's I'm so grateful to theLord for the fact I'm still here.
I'm so grateful to the wonderful doctors andmedics who my book to the ocean floor is
actually dedicated to the wonderful staff ofthe NHS, the National Health Service in The UK,
(39:21):
who get quite a lot of bad press sometimes inThe UK media, but are absolutely incredible.
Their compassion, their professionalism, andtheir resilience ever failed to amaze me.
And so thanks to them, I'm I'm I'm I'm veryblessed to have this life, and I just wanna use
it the best I can.
(39:42):
Yeah.
You know, you talking about that, her saying itwas a gift, and and I think it was my podcast
on Wisdom on the Front Porch.
Someone talks about how somebody had saidsomething that, well, God gave me this disease.
And I think and and the person that was talkingwas like, God doesn't do that.
(40:06):
You know, there is sin in the world.
And because of that, these things happen.
Now how you look at it, I don't know if I wouldhave called it a gift, but I think sometimes
people don't know what word to use, but theysee this tragic thing that you had ended up
bringing about these amazing things.
(40:26):
And I think that is what we need to look at,that God can use anything to bring it about.
Now like you said, why does one person not havea second chance, and why do other people have a
second chance?
It's like it's not our place to open outanybody's time to go.
(40:51):
God decides that, and he has his reasons forit.
And perhaps the reason you were spared was tobring this hope, to bring this light, to bring
these these that there there can be joy thatdon't give up just because someone gives you a
(41:15):
bad diagnosis.
Prepare that don't think that, okay.
There's no other choice because maybe there is.
And and you were able to give a gift not onlyto your children, but now you've given a gift
to the world.
And you've given it three times.
Well, four times if you count the convoy.
(41:35):
You know?
So so there's reasons like we said earlier,there's things beyond our capability to
understand why something is the way it is, butit really shouldn't matter.
What should matter is what do we do with it?
How do we use it?
(41:56):
What do we how do we share that?
How do we add value to others?
And and you've done it beautifully.
That's true.
I would say I think it's so important what youjust said.
I think one of the reasons I wrote my storydown because I was absolutely clear and wanted
(42:16):
my children to understand that God hadn't givenme this cancer.
Yes.
I think that's what I I think my journey hasbeen something about it's been understanding
that, really, because I think that's why I'm soangry with the church and angry with God.
I thought that God had given my father bipolardepression.
And I think what I've come to realize over mylife is that we live in a broken world.
(42:40):
Yes.
We live in a fall we live in a fall of world,and it's part of our part of that brokenness is
these things come, but it's the fact that Godcan use these things.
Yeah.
We're told in Romans he can use any any andevery situation for the good of those who he
purposes.
And I think that's really important because itdoesn't mean everything's gonna work out
(43:00):
absolutely fine, but it means he can use anysituation for the good.
And I think it's it's interesting.
I'm gonna say one of the things that peoplehave said to me is that it's they found the
books immensely hopeful while they still werevery, very realistic.
Yes.
And I think that's a really, really kind ofimportant balance.
(43:23):
I'm quite authentic about, you know, how thisis about the vulnerability piece.
So there were parts of this I found verychallenging.
I'm saying what I would say is that SeaChangeis not all about cancer.
I'm saying it is it's an autobiography.
It tells the story of my whole of my wholefaith journey right the way through my work in
the media, in the secular media.
(43:43):
I was a current affairs journalist and editorfor many years.
I worked as a broadcaster and and it takesthrough the kind of that process and then
working with World Vision as well.
So it's not just about the cancer.
But through that, it shows how I've actuallythrough that, I saw some very, very difficult
situations and I saw God at work in them.
(44:04):
When I was working with World Vision, I went tosome of the toughest places on the planet and I
met some of the most incredibly inspiring faithfilled people you can ever imagine.
I saw people who were praying on their knees inthe midst of the rubble of their lives after
major humanitarian disasters, who still somehowwere able to praise God.
(44:27):
And and that was so challenging to me.
So challenging.
And so in the book, I'm exploring and look athow the god has shown up in all these different
ways.
It just took cancer for me to be able to lookback and recognize it clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's powerful.
(44:47):
I just it's like, okay.
I have to be respectful of everyone's time eventhough I know we could talk for hours.
I know we could.
I I know that we've spoken a couple of times.
I know we could talk for hours.
Yes.
Yes.
Kate, thank you so much for sharing today.
And and, yeah, just really sharing from yourheart, from from what you've gone through and
(45:14):
and letting the rest of us in on it.
I know know your books.
I'm sure they've already helped people.
I know they're helping more people, and I thankyou for for giving us an insight into the
books.
So most important question now is where can weget your books?
(45:36):
Well, think the best is go to my website,katenicholas.co.uk.
There are links there where, they can be boughtinternationally, but they are readily available
on amazon.com, and Amazon around the world.
So, yeah.
So you can search any of them.
What I would say is is Kate Nicholas like theboy's name?
Sometimes people leave out the h.
(45:57):
It's Kate Nicholas, and then you'll find me.
There you go.
There you go.
Thank you so much for being on our show, andthank your audience for for listening and
watching, whichever platform you use.
And we'll see you next time on 100 no.
That's not the name of it anymore.
(46:18):
It was 104 new books.
Now it's reading between the words.
We'll see you next time, and my puppy sayshello.
Bye bye.
Thank you for joining us.
We'll see you next time on reading between thewords.
Welcome to another episode of reading betweenthe words.
And today, we've got Anne here.
She's or Kate.
I'm sorry.
I've been been formatting my other book, and Ithink too many names are altogether.
It's wonderful.
I've got the giving book volume four comingout.
I have over 35 contributors in it.
(00:34):
So I apologize, Kate, for misspeaking yourname.
And and
I know you're trying to
Yeah.
Kate Kate and I are just both we had to take aten minute break from what we were doing.
I'm formatting.
She's writing her book, and so we're gonna takea break and breathe a little bit and talk to
you about the book that she has already.
(00:56):
So tell us the title of your book, Kate.
Thank you.
It's great to be here again.
It really is.
And, again, the book I want to talk about todayis called See Changed, and it's my memoir.
It's the first book I wrote actually, and it'sabout my very unconventional journey of faith
and of healing from advanced cancer.
(01:16):
Oh, wow.
Oh, wow.
Do you do you have your book so we can see itfor those that are gonna be watching on
YouTube?
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Here it is.
Yeah.
This is
a cover.
Yeah.
Really beautiful cover by a wonderfulillustrator who works my publisher works with
all my books.
So, yeah, I really love the cover of this.
And, yeah, this was actually this was actuallymy first book.
(01:37):
I will say that it took, cancers turn me intoan author.
I was brought up with words.
I was a current affairs journalist.
I used to be global communications chief forthe Christian charity World Vision.
And it wasn't actually until I spent my lifetelling other people's stories and it wasn't
until I was diagnosed with cancer that I beganto think about telling my own.
(02:01):
It was back in 02/2014 I was diagnosed with,yeah, inoperable stage four breast cancer.
And I I was told that the breast cancer hadspread around pericardial sac around my heart
into the medicinal layer around my lungs and upunder my collarbone, and it it really wasn't a
(02:23):
good prognosis.
I actually they wouldn't say how much time Ihad left, but I went online and found a
reputable medical journal which said that eighteighty five percent of people whose cancer
spread of mine had, died within twelve monthsOh, which was a bit of a shock.
And my husband actually banned me off Googleafter that, told me not to get anywhere near it
(02:44):
again.
But yeah.
So it was it was a very, very tough very, verytough.
Was my children were then 16 and 10 years old,and I I remember the day I told them.
I think it was probably the hardest day of mylife.
And, I actually wrote the book for them.
I wrote it while going through treatment foradvanced cancer originally for them.
(03:08):
I think when you're in that kind of situation,you you obviously think about what you're going
to leave.
I had to face the fact that I'm maybe going toleave them.
And I started to put together, memory boxes forthem.
You know, I got had quilts made up for theirfirst children from their baby clothes and
things like this and did cards for theirwedding day, cards for their 20 birthdays.
(03:31):
Oh.
And I stopped oh, it was just it was it wasactually an incredible experience to do that.
I found it very helpful, actually.
Think a lot of people do.
Although it poignant of course.
And I started to put together photographalbums.
I had hundreds of photographs and weren't noworganized.
So I started to put together the photographalbums.
And I looked at these things and thought, well,they've shown where I've been in my life, where
(03:53):
places I've been to, and they shown that I'vegot grayer and I've got a bit fatter, but they
don't actually they don't show anything abouthow I saw the world, about how I understood the
world, and I'm what I believed.
And I realized that if I was going to conveysomething that I needed words, which is how I
started thinking about writing down my story.
(04:16):
I have actually written journals all my lifeand I'd say to anybody who's thinking about
ever writing, they should keep journals.
They're incredibly important.
Except my handwriting is so bad.
My family will say make a good doctor, youknow, that scrawl.
And I looked at these journals and thought,they will never read these.
I can hardly read them so they'll never readthem.
So I started writing.
(04:37):
And I think it's, I hear it's amazing.
Some of the nurses, I think they thought I wasmad.
I was in hospital beds tapping away on mycomputer linked up to various tubes and things.
But it was it in a way, doing that was a bit ofa gift.
It's, I've always been really actionorientated.
I have always been constantly on the go.
(04:58):
At that time, I was working with World Vision.
I was spending a lot of my time traveling.
And I think being on the go is how I missed thesigns in the first place because I didn't stop
long enough.
And I like to say now, ladies, please checkyourselves.
And if you're offered a mammogram, please goand take it because a mammogram has actually
(05:20):
saved my life as I talked about in anotherpodcast with you.
But I think for the first time, I was actuallyforced to be still.
Yeah.
To actually I I I cancer brought me to astandstill and I could hardly read.
I found it quite hard to kind of concentrate onthings.
(05:40):
And so I found I was able to look back over mylife for the first time And I began to see, you
know, I began to see how God has actually beenthere for me.
And so I haven't always been a Christian.
Mhmm.
I could tell you a bit about my faith journey.
I mean, a way, SeaChange is a story of thisrather unconventional faith journey.
(06:03):
I don't think anyone could have predicted thatI would actually end up being a preacher in the
Church of England.
I'm I'm actually on the ministry team of thechurch where John Newton wrote the world famous
hymn Amazing Grace.
Oh, nice.
Which is an incredible blessing.
Yeah.
Quite famous church in a place called Oney inBuckinghamshire.
(06:23):
But I was brought up I was actually brought upas a Christian as a child by my mother who was
a Baptist.
But I was very, very influenced by my fatherwho was a brilliant father eccentric poet.
And he he I think these days, he would havebeen diagnosed as bipolar.
(06:43):
But in those days, they didn't reallyunderstand mental health as well then.
Right.
And he was really left over to his own devices.
And I was as a teenager, I he he used to talkabout how down he was, and I was absolutely
terrified that he was gonna take his own life.
Oh, wow.
But I and I turned to the church as one woulddo and to say I I I wanted to seek I said,
(07:07):
well, don't I wanted to seek an answer.
I wanted to seek help.
And I just nobody seemed to be able to give mea satisfactory answer.
How could god love this god of love loved myfather so much and let him suffer like this?
And nobody could really tell me.
And I actually got very angry.
I I thought I was angry with God.
I think I was actually angry with the church.
(07:28):
And I actually turned my back in anger andwalked away when I was a young when I was a
young adult.
But I think what see changes is in a way is thestory of how God brought me back to him.
I think it's as if he put a piece I look backand see it was like he put a piece of elastic
on me and was drawing me back over time.
(07:51):
And it it was a pretty long unwinding journey.
I became I think a bit of a seeker.
I got I went to university in a place calledAberystwyth in Wales which is a bit new age.
And I got involved I got very interested in allsorts of weird and wonderful things.
But it was very interesting Celtic Christianityactually, which is all about understanding God
(08:12):
through his creation, through nature is quiteinteresting.
I used to when you're living by the sea, it's arather wonderful thing to think about looking
at the horizon, thinking about eternity.
But I also, I also ended up at one pointstudying Buddhism in the Dalai Lama School in
Dhamshular in India, which is a bit of a kindof detour.
(08:35):
But actually, I think it was there I began tobegin to my faith began to reignite because I
couldn't make sense of the world they weredescribing.
A world where, like, oh, it just didn't makesense to me.
And solely, I think over time I'm quite arationalist.
I'm a former current affairs journalist so Icould have I think my faith was very much at
(08:56):
the head to begin with.
I started reading a lot of books.
Have you ever I don't if you've read much C.
S.
Lewis.
Have you read much C.
S.
Lewis?
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Well, in his wonderful book, Mere Christianity,which was this, kind of series of radio lecture
he gave on Radio four in England.
He he talks about the fact that, you know, thatJesus either had to be mad, insane, bad, or he
(09:20):
had to be who he said he was, the son of god.
And I think I pretty much reached thatconclusion.
I thought he definitely wasn't bad.
He was so immensely good.
He wasn't insane.
He spoke greater sanity than just about anyother human being who walked the earth.
So he had to be who he said he was.
And from that point onwards, I think when Iaccepted that, then everything began to change.
(09:47):
Yeah.
That's wow.
That is one incredible journey.
You know, you talked about leaving these boxesor or something for your kids, and and I've
kind of been doing the same thing.
I have these steamer trucks and one for each ofthe kids, and I put things in there for the
(10:07):
grandkids now too.
But I write on there what it is.
And, you know, I have a piece of paper.
A lot of times, it's like jewelry or somethingthat was my mother's or my dad's or something
that that was special when they were reallittle.
And then I put it inside the trucks, and I'velet the kids know that everything is in a truck
(10:29):
because they don't know what to do.
You know?
You don't wanna leave a whole lot of stuff.
I have stuff that was handed down to me from mygrandparents.
And and so I want them to understand themeaning behind it, what it means to me.
Plus, it gives me a place to put it so it's outof the way.
It's not cluttering up.
You know, steamer trunks actually make goodfurniture and and things like that.
(10:53):
So, yeah, it's important to to do somethingnow.
So when we do pass, the kids are not left withthis huge burden of, oh my gosh.
What do I do with all of this stuff?
They already know that if it's in the trunk,it's already sorted out.
It's already delegated.
If there's anything else there, they can figurethat out or they can just get rid of all of it.
(11:16):
You know?
It's it's not that big of a deal.
So that's a really good idea.
I love what you said too was there's all thesethings, but they don't know the emotion.
They don't know the tie that you have withthem.
They don't know why it mattered to you and whyyou want it to matter to them.
And so writing your story was a really greatgenius idea to do.
(11:41):
And and it's too bad sometimes it takessomething really dramatic to happen to us to
start this process.
So for those that are listening, this is thisis your door of opportunity knocking or this is
your warning or whatever it is.
Do something now.
You know, if you have knickknacks on the shelfor things that have been handed down, take a
(12:04):
piece of of painter's tape because it comes offreal easy.
It doesn't leave sticky residue, and just putthat on there and write the your child's name
or whoever you want it to go to, put their nameon it so you know.
But the important things to do are write downthe things that they can't see and can't hold.
(12:25):
Write down those memories.
So for Christmas this year, I just sent out thetext to my kids, and I says, grandma wants one
thing from each of the grandkids.
And I want you to want them to write me aletter, but in it, I want them to tell me
what's one of their best memories of me.
(12:46):
Or if they have two of them, what are those?
And then tell me why it's their best memory.
And I'm gonna do the same for them.
They just don't know that yet.
So so there's things you can do.
I think it's such a I'm see, I remember when II was talking I'll come on this in a moment
about what happened after this, but the factthat I was talking, I was talking to a group in
(13:09):
a very large church in a place called Readingin England.
And at the end of it, this woman got up andsaid, I wish I could do what you've done and
look back over my life and see how God's atwork, but preferably without the cancer
diagnosis.
And that sort of gave me an idea.
And I think what I I come up with this conceptthis this concept that got hitting me was this
idea of soul story.
(13:31):
I think a lot of us think that our lives aren'tthat dramatic, our lives aren't eventful enough
to share.
But I think all of us have got a part a storyto tell about the part of us that connects with
the infinite, that connects with God, that sortof search for meaning by how we see the world.
And then I've heard some amazing stories frompeople who would think they're very ordinary.
(13:52):
Actually, their stories are quiteextraordinary, you know.
And I'm saying, without getting ahead ofmyself, I did write this book here, which I can
talk to you about at some point, about calledSoul Stride.
And that the whole idea of this was in responseto that woman's question was it guides people
through how to understand what you call yoursoul story and then how to share it.
And that was a book I came up with.
(14:13):
But I'm getting ahead of myself because thefact that I'm talking to you, of course, is a
bit of a spoiler for all of my books,particularly for Sea Changed.
Yes.
Because there I was, lying in hospital bedswith a diagnosis and a prognosis which I I saw
I I didn't expect to see an awful lot more lifeahead of me.
(14:37):
And I actually, of course, never dreamt thatwhat I was writing would be anything more than
just something ring bound for the children.
And it's it's I believe that I'm gonna say ifwe talk first of about what happened because I
believe something miraculous happened.
In the book in the sea yeah.
It's in book, in the sea change, I talk abouthow I just my family and I said we weren't
(15:01):
gonna give up hope.
Despite what we've been told, we weren't gonnagive up hope.
I actually spent a lot of time studying thebible, what it has said about healing, this
idea that god is Jehovah Rapha.
He calls himself in Exodus.
Exodus fifteen twenty six, he calls himselfJehovah Rapha, the god who heals.
Yes.
And the Greek word used for save, I found out alot in New Testament is sozo, which actually
(15:27):
means also healing and wholeness, which Iloved.
Yes.
And, of course, there's all those accounts inthe New Testament.
You know, 31 accounts of Jesus going aroundhealing people and about 20, plus accounts of
mass healings.
And I I as an ex current affairs journalist, II still had a heavy dose of skepticism.
(15:47):
Yeah.
I was quite cynical, and I was particularlycynical about television healers.
I've seen various healers, you know, kind ofwith people kind of jumping out of wheelchairs
and throwing away their crutches and asking forlarge donations and all my skeptical filters
were on.
But I was persuaded to go and see a group nearme in in Buckinghamshire in England who were a
(16:11):
reputable group.
They're part of something called the ChristianHealing Mission.
And I went to go and see them.
And I remember I don't know what I expected,but there was this lady who's about about my
age now, about 60, and a parker opened the doorand said, hello, love.
Come in, love a tea and a biscuit.
And I thought, well, I don't know what I wasexpecting, but I thought maybe a bit more
theater.
(16:32):
Yeah.
But the experience I had there was so powerful.
We sat in this tiny room and had a couplepeople praying over me.
And I I talk about in my book that experience,and it was it was a bit like electricity was
passing through my body.
It was quite amazing.
And through them, I came to see that I neededto leave a door open.
(16:56):
I needed to leave a door open.
Now, I'm not gonna tell you the whole story.
You have to read the book.
You have to read SeaChange.
But I I can't as I say, the spoiler is I'mtalking to you, but I can tell you that God's
healing began even before the first treatment.
Wow.
I went when I was first told I went to go andsee a radiologist.
(17:19):
I was told I had to go and have a scan.
And when she first scanned me, I remember shesaid to me, oh, there's masses of cancer and it
spread.
And I thought, oh, it's just not the last thingyou want to hear, you know.
It's a soul wrenching moment when someone tellsyou that.
And I then went to see an oncologist and theysaid although it's inoperable, they would give
me chemotherapy.
(17:40):
And I went back two weeks later to have thebenchmarking scan.
That's the scan you have before you startchemotherapy so they can tell how it's
progressing.
And when I went in, I laid down, she scanned meagain.
And as she was scanning me, she said, have youstarted your treatment yet?
And I thought, well, that's a bit of an oddquestion.
This is my pretreatment scan.
(18:00):
Yeah.
But I think in that vulnerable state, you tendI I found I didn't tend to question medics.
You just feel like you need to just trust them,you know?
You don't want to question them.
But as I was leaving, felt this kind ofprompting and I just turned around and said,
why did you ask me if this was my first if ifI'd started treatment yet?
(18:21):
And she just said, well, it's very odd.
I don't understand it, she said.
But the cancer has shrunk by quite a lot.
And I just said, well, there's a lot of peoplepraying for me.
And I remember she just held up her hands.
Wow.
And I it's in the book, I tell the entire storyof how I ended up being still here.
(18:44):
And one thing that's very important to say ismy book has been signed off by my oncologist,
my surgeon, my radiologist, and mycardiologist.
It was really, really important to me that mybook was completely medically accurate.
Okay.
And and the thing that they all said was thereare aspects to this, your recovery, that we
(19:06):
cannot understand.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They said there I I I they said there areaspects we just can't explain.
And from that basis, they were willing to signoff on my book.
But not only is willing, but help very eager tosign off on my book.
Wow.
I think they love seeing these kind of thesekind of moments where someone defies all the
odds.
It's a wonderful moment for them as wellbecause they get very close to their patients.
(19:31):
Yes.
I think we sometimes don't realize just howheart this heart soul wrenchy it can be to see
people they've come to know coming to the endof their lives in a way far too soon.
But I think one thing I'm very clear about inthe book in See Changed is that I don't begin
(19:53):
to really understand this difficult thisdifficult issue why some people are healed and
some aren't.
Yeah.
I've I've lost too many people to cancer.
I lost my very dearest, my best friend, in Juneto a rare form of cancer.
She had literally three weeks from diagnosisuntil she passed away, and I was with her at
(20:15):
the end.
So I I don't understand.
She had faith.
She had faith.
I think I what I would say is I had absolutelywonderful medical care, and I would never ever
advocate that somebody fights something likecancer on a diet of prayer and carrots.
It's, you know, I think that Yeah.
(20:37):
I'm just because I know some people there is akind of there's a sense I've had I come across
people who seem to think that somehow by takingmedical intervention that it's a kind of
betrayal of their faith that it shows theirfaith isn't strong enough.
And to which I find bewildering because, youknow, I believe that doctors are God's hands
(20:59):
and feet.
He works through them in the world.
All the great scientific breakthroughs we'vehad have come from him.
He says he's Jesus was called his wisdom, youknow.
And all of the ingredients that go into thesemedicate medicines come from his creation.
The idea that something lies beyond that, itjust seems nonsensical as what lies beyond
(21:22):
God's purview.
You know?
There is nothing that lies God gone beyondGod's purview.
But I think probably what I have come tounderstand during this journey, and I talk
about in the book a lot, is that I think God'shealing is sometimes something bigger than.
I think it may not even include a cure.
(21:43):
I think it comes in many different forms.
And I think possibly the most profound healingthat I experienced was this deep and almost
inexplicable sense of peace that I was given.
I remember I I I was in the oncologist's officeand my husband said to me when we first told my
(22:07):
prognosis and just how bad it was, he saidthere was this incredible calm just descended
over me.
And I can remember the oncologist kept saying,Kate, you do understand the implications of
what I'm telling you, don't you?
But eventually I said, yes.
You're telling me I'm dying.
And he was seemed completely bewildered.
And afterwards, my husband said to me, he said,Kate, I know it didn't come from you because
(22:32):
you could borrow the leg off a table, which Irather liked.
Yeah.
It's I wasn't in the thing is I wasn't indenial.
I think some people said to me, were you indenial?
I wasn't in denial.
I actually put my affairs in order.
There's even a funeral plan.
(22:53):
But somehow, I was able to hold on to tworealities in my mind at once.
One in which I was able to be healed and theother in which I was going to leave my family
sooner than I wanted to.
And somehow, I was able to hold those twotogether and they weren't intention.
(23:17):
And I think the only way that I can reallyexplain that is faith.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes there's things beyond what what wecan, at the moment, hang on to to explain.
You can't explain it.
(23:37):
There's things in the world you can't explain,and that's okay.
You know?
That's okay.
That's okay.
We don't need to know everything.
We don't need to explain everything.
Soon enough.
I think there's this you know, we talk aboutbattling cancer.
It's a very common phrase, isn't it?
You know, people say they have to battle withcancer.
I think that's quite a frightening idea,really, because it implies that it's down to us
(24:03):
whether we're gonna actually get whether we'regonna get through cancer or not.
Yeah.
And that's a heavy, heavy burden to bear.
And I think I I think one of the things I'llsay to people who are going through this is try
to let go of that idea or at least recognizeyou're not fighting it alone.
Mhmm.
Because I think, you know, this idea you know,I think the experience what I would say
(24:25):
throughout this is I had this experience of notbeing alone was almost incandescent.
I felt as if there was somebody with me,somebody holding me up.
And and I think it's and I think it's I wasalmost like I was existing on the border for a
while between the natural and the supernatural.
(24:46):
It's like I was I was on the border of life anddeath, I suppose.
Yeah.
It gives you a different perspective gives youa different perspective when you're in that
situation.
And, what I would say is I had this kind ofalmost heightened sense of awareness of the
beauty of everything around me.
And it was and I I somehow saw things in a waythat I hadn't seen before as if they suddenly
(25:09):
come into become crystal clear.
They suddenly gone into full multicolor, youknow?
And and even when I was really sick, I kind offelt this real sense of almost joy of being
alive that day, which is hard to describe.
Should I can I just read you a bit from
the book?
Please.
I was just gonna ask if
you could
read from your book.
(25:30):
Yeah.
Because I think it gives it gives an idea ofthis.
This is just a passage about about something ofthat kind of way I felt, you know.
Okay.
The treatments took place in a three week cycleand even though the dosage had been reduced to
avoid another calamity, my neutrophil countremained so low for two weeks following
treatment that I had to limit my contact withother human beings.
(25:55):
When my children came home from school withcoughs and sneezes, I was confined to my
bedroom to ensure that I wasn't infected.
My world has shrunk so rapidly.
Only a few months before, I had thought nothingof traveling to Asia 1 Week and Africa the
next.
But for the first week after each chemotherapycycle, I could hardly lift my battered body off
(26:18):
the bed.
I would lie on my back watching the sunlightfilter through the skylights in our bedroom as
I had done when I was pregnant with mydaughter.
I remembered how I used to watch the cloudsthrough the window of our flat in London,
feeling the first stirrings of life within meand recognize with bitter irony that what was
(26:39):
now growing within me may well rob me of life.
As I lay in bed in the morning and listened tothe house come to life, the children chatting
downstairs and the clatter of pots in thekitchen, I also felt an unexpected joy in my
heart and thank God that I was surrounded byfamily.
I was painfully aware that many others werefacing cancer alone.
(27:04):
Even when the effects of chemotherapy were attheir worst, when I was so weak I could barely
stand, I was grateful for simply being aliveand would greet the day praying, this is the
day the Lord has made.
Let us rejoice and be glad in it.
In the early hours of the morning when sleepeluded me, when the pain of cancer bore into my
(27:26):
soul and the chemicals in my veins made meshake uncontrollably.
I sometimes felt a comforting presence besideme.
One night as I lay racked and groaning on thebed, I felt a soft touch of my head as if an
unseen hand was stroking my temple, and I feltmyself relax into merciful sleep.
(27:49):
On better days, I would force myself out of thehouse and wander unsteadily up the lane.
As I walked in the Christmas of the morning,the air seemed electric, sharper and brighter
than I ever remembered.
It was as if I was seeing the world moreclearly.
Every blade of grass, veined leaf, wheat stalk,and gnarled trunk, ripening apple and
(28:12):
blackberries stood out in sharp relief.
As the clouds rolled away to reveal azure sky,I became acutely conscious of the variety of
life around me.
The butterflies fitting among the late summerblossoms, the songs of starlings above the
scuttle of shrew into an undergrowth, rabbitsheading for burrows and deer for the woods.
(28:35):
I walked as if in a dream.
All I could feel was joy at being alive in thesense of God's presence.
Once again, I wandered the fields as I had doneas a child, bathing in the sense of the
numinous, the God that I now knew.
At the top of the field looking out over thevalley, a place where I'd often gone to pray
(28:56):
over the years, I lifted my hands in thanks andfelt the pain leaving my body as if it was
lifted up by the wind.
Wow.
That is so beautiful.
Let's see.
Okay.
I'm getting another book.
I don't
(29:17):
have enough.
It's it seems like a lot of people said how howcomforting they found it.
I didn't shy away from the reality of thesituation.
And I wrote the book in the belief that I wasnot going to be here.
(29:38):
So it's written there is a there is a intensityto it that comes from the fact it was written
by a woman who believed she was dying.
Right.
And obviously, against as you can see, againstall odds I survived.
It was an interesting situation because I thenI gave a copy of this, what I've written to a
friend of mine.
She said to me, I think you need to get thispublished, which I hadn't thought of before.
(30:01):
And and I and I and I was I I thought, okay.
My mother had been a best selling author andshe had I knew from her how hard it was to get
a literary agent or how hard it was to get apublisher.
And I just didn't feel strong enough.
So what I did is I bought there's a book calledthe Writers and Artists Yearbook, which in The
(30:21):
United Kingdom is like the bible forpublishers, for for writers.
It helps you to find a publisher.
And I went through it and I got to a and I sawAuthentic Media, a publisher who was based just
down the road from me who focused oninspirational biographies.
And I thought, okay, that sounds like it'sgonna be it.
But I thought I'm going tidy this up firstbecause, of course, I didn't think I was going
(30:45):
to be around to see people's reactions to thebook and and I thought, well, maybe there's
things on this I'd like to smooth out a bit,you know.
Not to whitewash, but just maybe to take awaysome of the vulnerability of it.
But a friend of mine, I've talked to him aboutthis and I've talked to a friend of mine at
World Vision, he said, oh, I know I know thechief executive of a company, he said, who I
(31:08):
think could be really interested in this.
He said, their name's Authentic Media.
And I was like, well, Wow.
All the thousands of publishers the same one.
And before I could stop before I could stophim, he pinged off an email.
Oh, wow.
There and then while I was sitting there, I I II we got a response the same day asking me to
(31:28):
send the manuscript.
And I so I didn't have and I remember thinking,oh my goodness.
I wanted more time to kind of, you know, tidythis up and everything.
But I thought, okay.
I'll just have to do this.
So I sent the manuscript and it it actuallywent on to be published.
It was nominated as a biographer of the year inThe UK, CRT Biographer of the year in 02/2017.
(31:52):
It went on to become a bestseller and it's it'sgone a life of its own.
And a lot of people have said to me, actually,it's the vulnerability that makes it so very
powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the fact that you didn't kind of, youknow, skirt over things.
And I think it really became a book.
It went beyond my children.
It it became a book for anyone who felt maybethey were facing challenges and wondered where
(32:17):
God was in the in the face of adversity.
And I think I also wanted to reassure peoplethat the surest path to faith isn't always a
straight line.
Mine was certainly quite a winding journey.
And, also, I think that God can be found insome really unexpected places, including even
(32:38):
in a cancer diagnosis.
Yes.
Yes.
Definitely.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
When I was it's it's it's this one's about.
I can hardly wait to get to the next book youhave.
Well, this was this was actually my first book.
(32:59):
It's and it's it when I was ill, I one thing Ikept holding on to like a life rafters, quite
early on, I I don't know if you've ever hadthis, but you get to kind of I had a passage of
scripture that kept coming to me from variousangles.
Yes.
People kept giving it to me or it kept poppingup in books, and and the passage for me was
Psalm a hundred and eighteen seventeen.
(33:19):
I will not die, but live and declare the worksof the Lord.
Oh, wow.
Which is incredible.
And I I held on to this thing.
And when, against all odds, I was declared incomplete remission from cancer, I I I really
made this the mission of my life.
I could've thought, well, God's kept his sideof the bargain.
I think I better keep mine.
(33:41):
Yeah.
There you go.
And so so I really made this wish.
I actually stepped out of World Vision.
I adored World Vision, the most incredibleorganization, do the most amazing work with
some of the most vulnerable children in theworld in in in very tough places.
And I it was with regret I stepped back, but Icouldn't keep on doing a global role and do the
traveling.
(34:01):
I remember I got on a plane to go to Bogota inColombia and got on like this and I got off
fourteen hours later in a wheelchair.
I thought, Kate, you gotta face reality.
Yeah.
So I stepped out and I started to really focuson write on my writing.
And I'm first of all, I start to share thestories.
It's amazing how doors opened.
I've now shared my story at churches, atevents, at conferences all over The UK, and as
(34:28):
far afield as Australia and Kenya.
Hopefully, one day maybe in America as well.
There you go.
And I I I was also hosted I was also I went togo and have an interview with, a channel called
TBN, which, in The UK is on Sky and Freeview,but it's also available in The US.
And I went to go and have an interview and atthe end of it, the, the interviewer who was
(34:51):
also the director of the channel said to me,Kate, I think I've got off for your own show.
I nearly fell off my chair.
I was fifth I was 55 years old.
That is not you know, most women presenters arebeing put out to pastor then.
Yeah.
So I became a so I became a TV presenter and Idid two series of a show called Living a
Transformed Life which, interviewed, otherpeople with amazing stories of transformation.
(35:18):
And one of the other things I did at that timewas, I wrote this book which is a companion to
the TV show but also to see changed.
And it's called see changed a companion guidebecause I think a lot of people had sort of had
reflected back to me this kind of interest inhow god shows up in the different challenges of
our life and the different things that happen.
(35:39):
So it's a 12 part reflection guide which takespeople through and shows how god uses all the
circumstances in our lives to help to kind ofto transform us, to kind of bring us to him
from the kind of like the mountaintop momentswhere we have these I think many of us have
these kind of whether you believe in aChristian God or with Jesus or whether you or
(36:01):
we have other faith.
I think, you know, people have this kind ofmoment where they feel closer to the sense of
the divine, you know.
But so how how he uses those moments, but alsothe ones where we're in the valleys, you know,
where we're really, really in the valleys.
Yes.
And I remember my my dear publisher, he came tosee me about, we've had coffee together about
(36:23):
two months before the show was due to go onair.
And she said to me, I wonder if you can justit'd be quite easy, wouldn't it, to just edit
those scripts into a book?
Let's put it out as a book.
She gave me four weeks.
I can Okay.
That writing the screen is not the same aswriting a book.
No.
(36:43):
I didn't sleep I didn't sleep a lot that month.
But, yeah, so it goes so these two, you can seehere, we use the same wonderful cover.
So these two sort of go together.
This is my story.
That helps you to understand how God's workingin your life.
So it came out.
That was wonderful.
And that I've done some workshops around thatas well.
And I went on to write then, then I wrote SoulScribe which came from this idea of, you know,
(37:07):
the woman saying how do I share my story whichbuilds on this.
And then, as I talked to you about in a recentpodcast, I wrote my latest book, To the Ocean
Floor, which was about my second cancer journeybecause my cancer came back in midst of the
pandemic.
And and we've talked about that length, but Ithink I I think you can point people in the
(37:31):
direction of the podcast we did around that.
Right.
Yeah.
It talks a lot about this.
Yeah.
It'll be
on the website too reading between the words.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's it's really interesting.
I've once sponsored a radio interview and thisinterviewer said to me, she said, it's really
strange, she said.
(37:52):
It almost sounds as if cancer was a gift.
I've thought about that really long and hardbecause it was a very all a very strange,
challenging statement.
Yeah.
I think I think I could say that, of course, Iwish I hadn't had cancer.
My family have been to hell and back.
They have they have had the most difficulttime.
(38:13):
My children had to face the fact they weregoing to potentially lose their mother once.
And as I talk about into the ocean floor, mysecond cancer journey brought me to the border
of death.
It was a very, very significant journey I wenton.
But it's really hard to weigh wish awayeverything that came with it because it's
(38:35):
almost if God took these lemons in my life andmade lemonade out of them, you know?
Yeah.
He could have used this and I never dreamt thatmy life would go down this track, that I'd
become an author, that I would end up sharingin this way.
Or have the immense privilege of because I gospeak up because I do a lot of speaking at
(38:56):
events, meeting other people and hearing theirstories.
So it's hard to wish all that away.
I think it's it's it's I'm so grateful to theLord for the fact I'm still here.
I'm so grateful to the wonderful doctors andmedics who my book to the ocean floor is
actually dedicated to the wonderful staff ofthe NHS, the National Health Service in The UK,
(39:21):
who get quite a lot of bad press sometimes inThe UK media, but are absolutely incredible.
Their compassion, their professionalism, andtheir resilience ever failed to amaze me.
And so thanks to them, I'm I'm I'm I'm veryblessed to have this life, and I just wanna use
it the best I can.
(39:42):
Yeah.
You know, you talking about that, her saying itwas a gift, and and I think it was my podcast
on Wisdom on the Front Porch.
Someone talks about how somebody had saidsomething that, well, God gave me this disease.
And I think and and the person that was talkingwas like, God doesn't do that.
(40:06):
You know, there is sin in the world.
And because of that, these things happen.
Now how you look at it, I don't know if I wouldhave called it a gift, but I think sometimes
people don't know what word to use, but theysee this tragic thing that you had ended up
bringing about these amazing things.
(40:26):
And I think that is what we need to look at,that God can use anything to bring it about.
Now like you said, why does one person not havea second chance, and why do other people have a
second chance?
It's like it's not our place to open outanybody's time to go.
(40:51):
God decides that, and he has his reasons forit.
And perhaps the reason you were spared was tobring this hope, to bring this light, to bring
these these that there there can be joy thatdon't give up just because someone gives you a
(41:15):
bad diagnosis.
Prepare that don't think that, okay.
There's no other choice because maybe there is.
And and you were able to give a gift not onlyto your children, but now you've given a gift
to the world.
And you've given it three times.
Well, four times if you count the convoy.
(41:35):
You know?
So so there's reasons like we said earlier,there's things beyond our capability to
understand why something is the way it is, butit really shouldn't matter.
What should matter is what do we do with it?
How do we use it?
(41:56):
What do we how do we share that?
How do we add value to others?
And and you've done it beautifully.
That's true.
I would say I think it's so important what youjust said.
I think one of the reasons I wrote my storydown because I was absolutely clear and wanted
(42:16):
my children to understand that God hadn't givenme this cancer.
Yes.
I think that's what I I think my journey hasbeen something about it's been understanding
that, really, because I think that's why I'm soangry with the church and angry with God.
I thought that God had given my father bipolardepression.
And I think what I've come to realize over mylife is that we live in a broken world.
(42:40):
Yes.
We live in a fall we live in a fall of world,and it's part of our part of that brokenness is
these things come, but it's the fact that Godcan use these things.
Yeah.
We're told in Romans he can use any any andevery situation for the good of those who he
purposes.
And I think that's really important because itdoesn't mean everything's gonna work out
(43:00):
absolutely fine, but it means he can use anysituation for the good.
And I think it's it's interesting.
I'm gonna say one of the things that peoplehave said to me is that it's they found the
books immensely hopeful while they still werevery, very realistic.
Yes.
And I think that's a really, really kind ofimportant balance.
(43:23):
I'm quite authentic about, you know, how thisis about the vulnerability piece.
So there were parts of this I found verychallenging.
I'm saying what I would say is that SeaChangeis not all about cancer.
I'm saying it is it's an autobiography.
It tells the story of my whole of my wholefaith journey right the way through my work in
the media, in the secular media.
(43:43):
I was a current affairs journalist and editorfor many years.
I worked as a broadcaster and and it takesthrough the kind of that process and then
working with World Vision as well.
So it's not just about the cancer.
But through that, it shows how I've actuallythrough that, I saw some very, very difficult
situations and I saw God at work in them.
(44:04):
When I was working with World Vision, I went tosome of the toughest places on the planet and I
met some of the most incredibly inspiring faithfilled people you can ever imagine.
I saw people who were praying on their knees inthe midst of the rubble of their lives after
major humanitarian disasters, who still somehowwere able to praise God.
(44:27):
And and that was so challenging to me.
So challenging.
And so in the book, I'm exploring and look athow the god has shown up in all these different
ways.
It just took cancer for me to be able to lookback and recognize it clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's powerful.
(44:47):
I just it's like, okay.
I have to be respectful of everyone's time eventhough I know we could talk for hours.
I know we could.
I I know that we've spoken a couple of times.
I know we could talk for hours.
Yes.
Yes.
Kate, thank you so much for sharing today.
And and, yeah, just really sharing from yourheart, from from what you've gone through and
(45:14):
and letting the rest of us in on it.
I know know your books.
I'm sure they've already helped people.
I know they're helping more people, and I thankyou for for giving us an insight into the
books.
So most important question now is where can weget your books?
(45:36):
Well, think the best is go to my website,katenicholas.co.uk.
There are links there where, they can be boughtinternationally, but they are readily available
on amazon.com, and Amazon around the world.
So, yeah.
So you can search any of them.
What I would say is is Kate Nicholas like theboy's name?
Sometimes people leave out the h.
(45:57):
It's Kate Nicholas, and then you'll find me.
There you go.
There you go.
Thank you so much for being on our show, andthank your audience for for listening and
watching, whichever platform you use.
And we'll see you next time on 100 no.
That's not the name of it anymore.
(46:18):
It was 104 new books.
Now it's reading between the words.
We'll see you next time, and my puppy sayshello.
Bye bye.
Thank you for joining us.
We'll see you next time on reading between thewords.
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