December 10, 2025 • 38 mins
Steve spent more than two decades building video games, working with a team that felt more like family than coworkers. By all measures, he loved his work. But a heart attack in 2021 changed everything, and it became the moment that pushed him to rethink the one thing he’d always said he wanted someday: an early retirement.
In this episode, Steve sits down with James Conole, CFP®, to share how a health scare, a divorce, and years of slowly learning how to budget and invest turned into the freedom he now wakes up to every day. He didn’t leave work because he hated his job. He left because he finally understood how valuable his time had become and how much life he still wanted to live.
Steve talks about losing 70 pounds, rebuilding his health through trial-and-error fitness routines, and the joy of discovering things he never had energy for during his career: jazz bands, improv lessons, spontaneous travel, and even acting classes. He also opens up about moving back to Arizona just in time to support his mom through a cancer diagnosis, a moment that revealed exactly how meaningful this new freedom is.
His story is a reminder that retirement isn’t just a math problem. It’s a life problem that you can solve by knowing what you value and experimenting until your days feel like your own again. And for Steve, these last two and half years have been better than he imagined.
Watch this episode of Retirement Reality — where real retirees share the wake-up calls, reinventions, and surprising joys that define life on the other side of work.
Want to be a guest on James’ show to help others by sharing your story? Complete this form: https://vwo3759x8i7.typeform.com/to/IwyScIeR
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Steve is not a client of Root Financial Partners, LLC and received no compensation for participating in this video. His statements reflect his own opinions and experience and are not indicative of any specific client’s experience and are not a guarantee of results. No cash or non-cash compensation was provided, and no material conflicts are known.
Advisory services are offered through Root Financial Partners, LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. This content is intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Viewing this content does not create an advisory relationship. We do not provide tax preparation or legal services. Always consult an investment, tax or legal professional regarding your specific situation.
The strategies, case studies, and examples discussed may not be suitable for everyone. They are hypothetical and for illustrative and educational purposes only. They do not reflect actual client results and are not guarantees of future performance. All investments involve risk, including the potential loss of principal.
Comments reflect the views of individual users and do not necessarily represent the views of Root Financial. They are not verified, may not be accurate, and should not be considered testimonials or endorsements
Participation in the Retirement Planning Academy or Early Retirement Academy does not create an advisory relationship with Root Financial. These programs are educational in nature and are not a substitute for personalized financial advice. Advisory services are offered only under a written agreement with Root Financial.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Two and a half years, you've been retired.
If you could summarizeretirement in one word so far,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Freedom.
Yeah.
It makes me want to sing thesong.
Uh I think it's Rita Franklin.
She goes, Freedom, freedom,freedom.
But yeah, no, it's it's beenamazing.
I can all my time is mine.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
When you retire, did it feel like an escape from
something?
And so that's where thefreedom's coming from, or was it
just a different level offreedom?
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
I actually had a great, great job with great
people.
And I was at the same companyfor the last 23 years of my
career.
So it had nothing to do with thejob, which I loved.
And I was making some of my bestmoney of my career at the end
there, too.
And but it was all about wantingthat that freedom to do what I
want to do when I want to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Steve had his dream job.
He loved who he worked with andhe was making great money, but
he still decided to walk away at60.
Tune in to hear how a majorhealth scare led to Steve
rethinking what retirement evenmeans for him and how the first
two and a half years have beencomplete and total freedom.
Enjoy today's episode withSteve.
Steve, thank you for joining metoday.
How long have you now beenretired?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
It's been almost exactly two and a half years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Two and a half years.
And what did you do for workprior to retiring?
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
I I was lucky enough to be a video game programmer.
Um and I worked in games myalmost my entire career, uh,
other than my first two yearsout of college.
Um so and that's something Ialways enjoyed as a kid is
playing games and my dad broughthome a computer, and and I was
lucky enough to move into thatand stay there my whole career.
You know, it's been great.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Wonderful.
Found something you enjoyed andstay with it for a while.
I want to come back to that.
But before I do, two and a halfyears, you've been retired.
If you could summarizeretirement in one word so far,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Freedom.
Yeah, it makes me want to singthe song.
Uh I think it's Retha Franklin.
She goes, Freedom, freedom,freedom.
But yeah, no, it's it's beenamazing.
I can all my time is mine.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
I wanted let's talk about that a bit more.
Because it sounds like you had acareer.
You were in the video gameprogrammer, you enjoyed video
games.
It was something that when youretire, did it feel like an
escape from something?
And so that's where thefreedom's coming from, or was it
just a different level offreedom that you could never
have even doing a job you loved?
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Yeah, it's the latter.
I mean, I I actually had agreat, great job with great
people, and I was at the samecompany um for the last 23 years
of my career, and uh, and manyof those people were there a lot
of those years, so we becamelike family.
Um, so it had nothing to do withthe job, which I loved, and I
was making some of my best moneyof my career at the end there,
(02:39):
too.
And but it was all about wantingthat that freedom to do what I
want to do when I want to do it,and have and have my time um to
use as I like to use it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
How old were you when you retired?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
I was 60.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
So so I'm here, and you enjoyed your job, you
enjoyed the people you weredoing it with, you are making
good money, you still decided toretire, and early's relative,
but I would say an earlyretirement.
What led to that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Well, well, one thing is in 2021 I had a heart
attack, and and I weighed over70 pounds more than I weigh now.
And so that was a huge wake-upcall, just in my life in
general.
Um, and after that I changed mydiet and I started exercising
consistently for the first timein my life, which I still do
(03:31):
today.
And it's it's actually one of mythings that I enjoy doing in
retirement, and it gives meplenty of time to do it.
Um, but that that wake-up callprobably pushed me to retire a
little earlier than I might haveif I if that hadn't happened.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
How soon, and thank you for sharing that, Steve.
How how soon after the heartattack did you realize I got to
make a change?
And that change is probablyretirement, so I can prioritize.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
Well, I didn't it it didn't go straight to
retirement.
Um it the the it went straightto health.
And yeah, and it was likeovernight.
Um and in fact, I'm not a personthat gets depressed, but I had a
severe depression for one dayfollowing my heart attack.
It like I had never had before.
And and after that, it just likeI said, total wake-up call and
(04:21):
started eating healthy.
And um I well, of course, I hadto go through uh cardiac cardiac
rehab, and uh and so learned alot there.
And but but no, I but way beforethat though, I had always been
wanting to retire early.
Um I had read books financialwhen I was a kid, like Richest
(04:41):
Man in Babylon from way backwhen I was a kid, and and I had
early on, I had reading aboutMr.
Money Mustache and the earlyyears of the fire community.
Um, so I I had always had it inthe back of my mind, but the the
heart attack is what pushed itforward.
And then I started thinkingabout well, yeah, started
looking at the numbers.
(05:02):
Um and yeah, I got somefinancial software, and and then
actually my mom has a financialfinancial advisor, and then and
they were able to do a freeconsultation to also confirm
what the financial software wastelling me that I I could do it.
And so, so yeah, it's um I hadalways thought I always wanted
(05:22):
to get on the early side, but Imean it wasn't easy.
I I actually I went through adivorce um when I was 45, 47,
um, and I and half my 401k wentto my ex-wife.
Um, so that was a huge blow atthat time.
But it was it's actually afterthat that I really got started
getting good with money.
(05:43):
Um, because I I never knew howto budget.
It started with budgeting.
That was the important firststep because I I never budgeted
well.
And then my ex-wife and I, wehad no extra money to our name.
All we had is what was in ourretirement accounts, um, and
actually some credit card debt,which I despise.
Um but after that, I I actuallyfound a software called YNAB.
(06:06):
You need a budget, and that andthat taught me how to budget
correctly for the first time inmy life.
And that that that starting stepwas huge in getting me slowly
building up my savings over timeand just started thinking about
finances the right way, and thenstarted learning about
investing.
And um, yeah, and I forgot nowwhere the question started here.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
No, thank you a lot there.
That there was a heart attack.
There was the the brief scent ofeven depression following that.
There was a divorce, there waslearning to budget, there was
the sense of always wanting toretire early, but needing to
develop the skills to actuallybe able to do so.
I want to cover each of thosejust even briefly.
The depression, what what whatwhen you were feeling that, what
(06:47):
was the depression over?
Was it the fact that mygoodness, I almost just lost my
life, or was it somethingrelated to inability to
prioritize health?
What was causing that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Yeah, no, it's uh the first thing you said.
Um, just the scare.
I mean, I have two grown sons,um, and I want to be there for
them.
And that's another reason forstaying in great health.
And I don't have grandkids yet,but they're coming, and I want
to be there for my grandkids aswell.
But but yeah, it was just thatit was mostly that, just wanting
to be there for my sons and andlive a long, long life.
(07:19):
Yeah.
And and I'm I've I've alwaysbeen in technology.
I I want to see where technologygoes as long as I can.
Like virtual reality isfascinating to me.
And so yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
You gotta be around long enough to see grandchildren
and also see where technologytake us uh in this crazy journey
we're on.
Um, so what was that?
So you had the heart attack in2021.
You retired in 2023, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
What was that journey like?
So you always wanted to retireearly.
This maybe accelerated things orreally brought things into
perspective.
Can you just kind of walk usthrough how did how did that
because it's one thing torealize, oh, I need to
prioritize this.
It's another thing to actuallydo it.
And in your case, it wasn't justhealth, but I think it was also
retirement was more of likephase two of that, to be able to
fully prioritize not justhealth, but also freedom,
(08:06):
flexibility, all of that.
How did how did what did thatprocess look like?
Was it an immediate, easy, I cannow prioritize this and do this,
or was it a a a series of thingsyou worked through to get to
where you are?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Yeah, it was it was kind of it wasn't immediate, it
was more gradual.
Um I mean, yeah, I I guess I'dalways I said I always wanted to
retire early, but I never reallyhad any action plan and and
dates in mind um until after theheart attack.
And it was gradual, and I juststarted thinking, yeah, it would
be great to have my time tomyself and be able to pursue
(08:43):
some other things in life.
And and um, and that's when Istarted thinking about it
gradually and the numbers.
And I had a I have a friend thatretired really young just
because uh he had a rottensituation with his job.
Um and his his mom was goingthrough some some things, and
the job didn't make it easy.
Um but but he handled it um andhe had it was probably like five
(09:06):
years before before me, and hewas younger than me, um, as a
college buddy.
Um so, anyways, I I had seenexamples of it, and um yeah, I
just it was just a gradualthing, and then I yeah, I
started looking at the money andyeah, can I retire?
And then I started gettingexcited about it um a couple of
years before, yeah, until Ifinally said, yeah, this is it.
(09:30):
And then, oh yeah, well, I'llI'll talk about that later.
But yeah, then I came up with aplan on how I was gonna tell my
work because I I did like my joba lot and I wanted to give them
plenty of time.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
Oh well, I do want to touch uponthat one second.
But what I what happened is itsounds like the plan finally
there was always a desire toretire early, but never maybe
wasn't a formalized plan of howto do that.
I think so many people feelthat.
If I want to retire, I want todo this, I want to travel, but
the missing link between wherethey are and where they want to
be, it just put simply a plan.
(10:01):
What are you gonna do to movefrom where you are to where you
want to go?
What do you need to do with your401k?
What do you need to do with thebudget?
What do you need to do withhealth insurance, social
security, whatever the casemight be?
And it sounds like the healthscare was really the thing that
said, time to connect the dotsbetween what I'm saying I want
and the practical steps to getthere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Exactly.
Yeah, because it it's easy to umjust stay in the same path that
you're on and just yeah, keepdoing what you're doing.
And it's that's easy.
It's it's hard to break out ofthat and uh and make these next
steps, um, which yeah, I have Ieven though I had talked about
it, but I had never put it inaction, and then I start putting
it in action.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Yeah, well, and one of the hopes of the show, too,
is I'm hoping that for peoplelistening, it's not a heart
attack that's the wake-up callto say, get a plan in order to
do this.
It's the lessons from Steve,it's the lessons from others of
okay, like there was a forcingfactor there, but maybe this
episode can be that forcingfactor for some people of all
that's missing, all that standsbetween them and what they want
(11:03):
to do is get a plan in order.
You can do this on your own, youcan do this with software, you
can do this with the financialadvisor, whatever it is, get
that plan.
Because to go back to what yousaid, freedom is the word that
you've used to describe the lasttwo and a half years, and you
enjoyed what you did for work.
So, how much more so are youenjoying now?
And I'm and we're gonna hearabout that in just a second.
But how was that preparing totell your work?
(11:26):
Knowing this is a job you lovewith people you love, making
good money.
What fears did you have?
What what uh what did that feellike as you're preparing to tell
them?
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah, I don't I don't know if there were any
fears.
Um and and I didn't get anypushback, which kind of
surprised me a little bit.
But but I think because I hadthat heart attack, I think
that's why I didn't get anypushback.
Um, but uh yeah, um I lost mytrain of thought here.
Um what were we talking aboutagain?
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Telling telling your firm you're gonna retire.
Tell your company, I'm gonnaretire.
Was that scary?
Was it easy?
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
Yeah, no.
Yeah, it wasn't scary, but uh, Iwanted to come up with a plan
and I wanted to give them plentyof time because they had been
really good to me, so I wantedto be good to my company.
Um so I because a lot of peopletalk about a month or two
months, but I said, okay, I'mgonna give them six months.
Um, so they have plenty of timebecause and I knew what they
need to replace, and they needto work on um getting um other
(12:27):
programmers in to cover my whatI my specialty was.
And uh so I want to give themplenty of time, and then it
turned out I gave me more timebecause at one point they're
just trying to decide whetherwe're gonna hire a new
programmer or um get some acontractor to work on a
particular thing, um, part ofour project.
(12:47):
And so I said, okay, well, Igotta tell them now because I
knew the right answer was to geta programmer, uh, not a um
contractor.
And so I told them about ninemonths before I retired.
And so I think they appreciatedthat, and and we used it to good
effect, and we got an excellentprogrammer, which helped make my
(13:08):
transition much easier.
And I had plenty of time toimpart my wisdom um to the next
generation.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
Yeah.
Is there anything, Steve, youmiss about work?
You even given the fact thatyou're in love and retirement,
anything you miss about work?
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Yeah, just the people, the hanging out with uh
my friends um from work.
And and well, that another thingis is I stayed in, I was in San
Diego, and um I I stayed therefor a year after I retired.
But then I since have moved toArizona um in in 2024, um, which
(13:46):
is where I'm originally from, myhome state, and it's where my my
mom is and friend and otherfriends and family.
Um, but uh yeah, can you imagineI left San Diego for Arizona for
that for that heat up in perfectweather?
But um, but it's been a greatmove for me.
And and also finance is um factfactored in there too, because I
(14:07):
knew my money went a lot furtherhere in Arizona than they did in
California just because of taxesand property taxes and cost of
living and lots of lots of otherreasons.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Very cool.
I want to shift gears a littlebit.
A lot of people, you and I weretalking before we hit record, of
a lot of people, they plan forretirement, and their planning
is purely financial.
They run the numbers, they getthe software, they do the
budgeting, and they think thatthe numbers alone are going to
get them to this point offeeling confident that they can
do it.
And they realize there's still agap because it's not just are
(14:41):
you financially prepared?
There's also the are youmentally prepared, are you
psychologically prepared?
Do you know what you want to do?
And I think just hearing storiesof what's on the other side, the
good and the bad, is so helpfulto a lot of people.
Will you share just thehighlights, the lowlights,
everything in between of how thefirst two and a half years have
gone for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
Sure.
Um, well, first of all, yeah, II wasn't caught by surprise
because I had been I had thoughtabout it a lot, especially since
after the heart attack, abouthow I wanted to live my life and
um and how retirement mightlook.
I thought about it a lot.
So I I knew and and it and itand it worked out exactly as I
had hoped, and better than I hadhoped, actually.
(15:23):
Um, because I wanted to get backinto music, which I had um I had
always always played music.
Um, and so I was able to getinto a couple of jazz bands um
since retirement, and I'm I'mplaying more as much or more
than I was even planning on.
Um so that's been great.
(15:44):
I'm I've been getting jazzlessons, um, improv lessons.
I I took an acting class, whichis just something out of the
blue.
I'd I just had interested in theprocess of acting, but I had I
didn't know anything about it.
So I said, you know what, I'mgonna do something to get out of
my comfort zone.
That's something I couldn't doduring my working years.
Um so that was just something II didn't even think about until
after I was retired.
(16:04):
And I did that, that was fun.
I met some really neat peopleand had a blast room.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Was that scary to do?
Did it did it take you a whileto psych yourself up to say, I'm
gonna do this new scary thing,or was it a pretty simple
decision and then you did it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Yeah, I kind of I kind of just said, you know
what, I started thinking aboutit, said, hey, that'd be fun.
And I started looking around,Googling about what was
available in Arizona, and Ifound something, and it turned
out to be the perfectfoundational acting class and
met great people.
And and yeah, I was a little outof my comfort zone in the class,
but I um well I've I was Ialways had to perform music on a
(16:40):
stage, so I I'm a little bitcomfortable with getting out
there, but it's still adifferent muscle.
And yeah, just let loose and anddo all these wild things in
front of other people.
Um, so it took a little bit, butyeah, definitely out of my
comfort zone, but but it wasn'ttoo bad.
unknown (16:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
How many of these things that you're doing now?
Music, obviously you justmentioned acting, other hobbies,
how many of these are thingsthat you could have done in your
working years versus how much ofthis is only possible being
fully retired?
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Well, the music, uh I always I always kept up on my
instrument.
I play the trombone.
And uh I kept up on it while Iwas re while I was working, um,
but not playing a lot of bands.
I played on occasional bands umover the years, uh, but not
nothing regularly.
Um but I kept up and practiced.
Um sometime.
(17:30):
I mean I'm sure I had some timewhere I went years without
playing much, but uh I kept on alittle bit, but um, but yeah, so
that was something.
And and I was too tired to Icouldn't practice during the
day, and by the time I wanted topractice, it would be later at
night, and and I didn't want tobug my neighbors, so so it
wasn't a great time to practice.
(17:51):
Um so now I can practice allduring the day, all day long if
I want.
But um so that's something.
Um and then yeah, and justplaying in these bands, I I
wouldn't have had the time orenergy.
I I was always like when I wasworking, I'd after my job, I
would I would just um be on thecouch watching TV and and I had
(18:13):
no energy to to do things thatnow I have tons of energy.
And working out too.
I can work out, I had to workout early morning or it was too
hard in the evening, so I don'tdo early mornings while I was
working.
Um luckily I was working fromhome for a little while because
of COVID and all that, and so Iwas able to actually get some
sets in while I'm working.
(18:33):
Um, so that was that was kind ofcool, but uh but I definitely
didn't have the time to dedicateto it that I have now.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
Yeah.
One of the things you said uh acouple minutes ago, Steve, was
that you thought a lot aboutwhat you wanted retirement to
look like.
And I think that's a veryhealthy exercise to have an idea
of what you are retired to, whatyou want life to look like.
Not that you can perfectlypredict it, but to have some
sense of what am I gettingmyself into?
What do I want to do if you doit by purpose?
(19:01):
And then just drift intosomething that becomes very
reactionary.
How do you think is that simplysomething that's it's literally
just a thought?
Do you journal?
Do you talk to people?
Do you read think what doesthinking about what you want
life to look like look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Yeah, well, I I guess it's just a lot of thought
and um and based on things I Ihad read and and watched about
early retirement and how otherpeople had done it.
But uh yeah, it was and yeah,it's it's really important.
I mean, I've talked to peoplenow that like some of my
coworkers from the past, andsome of them, yeah, they don't
(19:39):
they haven't thought about it atall, and they just think, yeah,
this is what I'm doing, and I'mgonna do it till retirement age.
Um and they don't really have,and they maybe don't have a lot
of hobbies, and so maybe workingis is still good for them to
keep do to keep working.
Um but but if somebody has a lotof hobbies and a lot of things
that they like to do that theycan't do while they're working,
(20:03):
um that's those are the peoplethat yeah, I can really think
about.
Oh yeah, traveling.
I did I did a lot of travel,I've done a lot of traveling
since I retired.
That's something that I couldn'tI mean, I could do like a like
one or two trips a year or onthe shorter side, but now I can
do long trips and I can do uhopen-ended trips.
(20:23):
Um they don't have to have acertain date where I'm done,
which is gives me more freedomum on vacation.
I can stay another week in Italyif I if I wanted to.
Um, so yeah, it's that's beenfantastic too.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
Sorry, have you gone somewhere where you said I'm
loving this so much, I'm gonnastay around for another five
days, seven days.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
I I don't know if I've done um done that yet, but
but when I when I did take aEuropean trip in 2023 after my
retirement, um I uh oh yeah, sothe first I had I went to
Edinburgh, Scotland, I went toum France, um and then and then
(21:05):
to Italy.
And the first two legs I hadkind of all planned out and and
I I was meeting my son for a lotof that.
Um and then the last leg inItaly, I didn't plan it at all.
Um I didn't have hotels oranything, and I just figured it
out as I went, so that wasdifferent, or where I was gonna
go in Italy.
And it was getting towards theend of my trip, so I was getting
(21:26):
a little tired.
So I didn't want to, I'm glad Ididn't have a bunch of different
locations.
So I ended up just going to Romeand and and Florence.
Um, and I'm glad I didn't haveall kinds of other things
planned.
Um, so yeah, so that was a timewhere I was able to just um go
with the flow and and do whatwas fun and where I was enjoying
(21:46):
things.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Yeah, very cool.
Um back to you had thought a lotabout what you wanted life to
look like in retirement, you'dalso planned financially for
what retirement might look like.
How close is what you'reactually spending today as you
talk about budgeting and talkabout what is it gonna cost?
How close is what you'reactually spending to what you
thought retirement would cost?
SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
I yeah, it's been uh I have I haven't slowed down on
my spending, I'll be honest withyou.
It's I mean, I've um it's I Iand I didn't really yeah, and I
probably needed to put morethought into what my retirement
spending would be.
All but but so far, well, andand I am it's kind of a I'm
gonna do it in an intuitivemanner too, because we have all
(22:33):
these rules, the 4% rule, or ornow it's a 4% 4.7% rule or or
whatever, and all and theseguardrails approaches, all these
different things.
And I've just kind of do itintuitively.
The the the market's been up, souh, so I'm I'm spending kind of
freely.
I've I've I've uh I've beenenjoying my money, and and I
know now's the time to enjoy itand spend it.
(22:54):
Um if if the market has adownturn, I I would I'll
probably slow slow down.
But I I mean I do know what mycore expenses are.
Um so if if I had to, I I I knowI'll last a long time.
And um, and I've and I'vethought a lot about when I'm
gonna start Social Security, andI'm I think I'm gonna wait till
70.
Um, so that'll extend because II hope to live a long time now
(23:18):
because uh I'm be keeping myhealth up.
And uh so my goal is to maximizesocial security, and I think
that alone would cover my coreexpenses um starting at 70 uh
going forward.
And and we know things slow downeventually, but I I hope not I
hope to extend that further andfurther as um I mean uh as
(23:40):
medical advances keep going.
I mean, people are living longerand they're living healthier
longer, and I hope they keepkeep up with that trend.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
And health is obviously a big priority for you
right now.
What did you do?
So you lost 70 pounds after theheart attack, you're really
prioritizing your health.
For a lot of people, health hasbeen so deprioritized they don't
even know what to do to get backinto the routine.
Is it daily walks?
Is it going to the gym?
Is it swimming?
Is it pickleball?
What does your health routinelook like?
What's what's been so effective,allowing you to lose 70 pounds
(24:10):
and seemingly really enjoyingwhat you're doing for your
health routine?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Yeah, well, I mean, it's it took many, many years to
put on those extra pounds.
So you can't expect to get ridof it all at once.
So it's been a gradual processover the those four years.
Well, I mean, I started before Iretired.
I started on that journey.
Um, but so it's been about fouryears of of and then a lot of
(24:36):
it's trial and error and andwatching, uh, and YouTube is
great for lots of differentfitness um sources.
Um so I've tried lots ofdifferent things.
It sort of started off graduallyjust with the caloric deficit,
um, and then changing my diet,because I I I like to joke that
I used to be on a cheeseburgerdiet because I ate a lot of way
(24:58):
too many cheeseburgers.
Um so and I learned in my mycardio rehab I I gotta start
eating fish and chicken and umbecause I'm still a carnivore.
Um and so I'm still gonna eatmeat, but uh I'm I cut out a lot
of the red meat, although I haveput some of the red meat back
in, but I'm still withinmoderation.
And as I'm in in much betterhealth now, um feeling good and
(25:23):
watching that.
But yeah, I started gradually,yeah, just caloric deficit, and
then I said, Oh, you know what,I gotta start weight training.
So I started doing weighttraining, um, and not uh not
even going to a gym, but I I hadmy own adjustable dumbbells and
a in a weight bench, um, and apull-up bar and uh a dip bar,
and so I was doing that at home,um, so along with the caloric
(25:45):
deficit.
And oh, and I was doing cardio.
I had I bought a an ellipticalmachine.
Um, so I was doing that.
Um the cardio was probably thething I enjoyed the least.
I just just do it sitting on astationary um exercise um
machine was kind of boring.
(26:07):
Even with iFit and following atrainer around the world or
whatever, and it changingelevations, it was pretty cool
technology.
But um so but yeah, so I so Ikept evolving my my health
journey too.
So it I a few years ago I foundthis I switched from from
weights.
I I used to get joint issues onlike bicep curls and my elbows
(26:31):
and um and different things.
Um and so I switched to theseheavy bands with a it's a foot
plate and and bands and uh and abar and like an Olympic type
bar, um solid bar.
Um and you can do all thesedifferent exercises, and they're
not and it's not like the lightbands that we had like in cardio
rehab, but these are heavy duty,there's a whole range of them,
(26:51):
so you can go up in and weightum and even combine them.
But anyway, so I switched fromfrom traditional weights to
these heavy-duty bands, and umnow all my joint pains went
away, and I'm still haven't lostany strength and um and continue
to lose lose weight and and gainstrength, or at least get my
maintain my strength while I'mlosing weight.
(27:12):
Um, and then cardio, I I figuredout a secret to cardio for me,
which was virtual reality of allthings, because um I found I had
a I had a headset, thisMetaQuest 3 headset, and um I
started saying, yeah, uh I bet Icould find some exercises on
that because you're movingaround and and I found this
(27:35):
software called Supernatural,where you're in these 3D
environments all over the world,and uh you're hitting targets to
music.
They have different modes.
There's one called flow, andyou're hitting all these
targets, and you're you knowmoving around and and and
squatting and and back up, andand then there's also a boxing
mode, so you're ducking andweaving and and boxing.
(27:56):
Um and so that turned out to befun fun cardio.
And so I've been doing thatsince April of this year, and
very consistently, and I I soldmy elliptical because I I found
a new way to do cardio because II had tried walking all and just
getting my steps in, but that itreally wasn't for me in it.
(28:17):
It was it was very timeconsuming.
And I'd rather um do a littlemore higher intensity cardio for
shorter tier period and and havefun with it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:26):
So it's all evolved.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I switched I switched the the bands, I yeah,
yeah, to the fun cardio, and soI found what works for me.
So I love it.
Um so now, yeah, and I've beenit's been like four years of
strength training consistently,and and I had always done it as
a kid and as I got older, butonly for it only lasts like two,
three, three months if I waslucky at a time.
(28:49):
And now it's been it's been justconsistent.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Yeah.
Well, I think the principle herethat I'm hearing is is identify
the things that are important.
In this case, it's health, butit could be relationships, it
could be hobby, like it could beanything, and then experiment.
What you started with isn't whatyou're still doing now.
You bought the elliptical, butnow you're doing something
different.
You started with strengthtraining, but now you're doing
something different.
And I think that that's if I hadto guess probably why
(29:14):
retirement's been so amazing isyou're not afraid to try things
that align with what you valueand then iterate and find that
thing and not expect it to beperfect the first time around,
whether it's acting classes,health stuff, what you're doing
for travel, the right thing isgonna be found if you just keep
sticking with it.
Um, a few more questions beforewe wrap your state.
(29:38):
At the very beginning, I couldjust tell that retirement these
first two and a half years ofretirement have been incredible.
Is there one particular momentthat stands out where you said
that was a moment that just kindof summarizes how this has been?
The freedom I've experienced,the enjoyment of it all.
Does any moment come to mind?
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Well, yeah, there's a few moments.
Well, one is not so positive.
Um I I moved back to Arizona in2020.
And my mom was diagnosed withcolon cancer at the end of 2024.
So, but the fact that I'm hereand able to help her out and see
her often has been a great boonfor in my retirement that I was
(30:15):
that the timing worked out sowell that I'm able to be here
for her.
So that's not a not so greatthing, but great that I'm there
for her, and she I know shereally appreciates it.
But then, yeah, just the freedomand I've been able to travel and
see both my both of my sons areon opposite coasts.
One's in Brooklyn, New York, andone's in Santa Cruz, California.
(30:36):
So I need to travel to see them,and they're working, so they
can't travel as much.
But so I'm able to go out to NewYork and have a fantastic time
out there.
And this summer I went to SantaCruz and hung out with my son
there, and we had a great time.
And so, yeah, and then travelingto Europe was a great moment.
(30:58):
And um and yeah, just thefreedom to go at any time.
I can I can leave my home and beand go go somewhere or go do
something.
I I have plans to go see my Ihave a brother in Oregon.
I can go I'm gonna go see himsoon.
It's like there's like so manychoices of things to do.
Um so yeah, yeah, those, yeah.
(31:18):
It's been a lot of greatmoments.
SPEAKER_01 (31:20):
Freedom to do what you want, when you want, with
who you want, uh, and all ofthat.
Um you have you you clearly dida lot of your own research,
learning, watching videos,listening to podcasts, reading,
getting feedback from others.
Are there any kind of corepieces of advice that were
transformational to your abilityto retire when you're able to
(31:44):
retire, or transformational yourability to enjoy retirement and
the way that you have enjoyed itthat you would want to share
with the listeners?
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah, well, I mean, it I mean, it starts with the
the money base, I mean, whichfor me was for me was budgeting.
That was my big eye-opener.
Um, so once I learned how tobudget and budget well, that led
that was like the root root, nopun intended, of the tree that
uh that started my financialjourney on the right track.
(32:12):
Um, and then yeah, and then andit wasn't until I was I used to
always just do my my match um inmy 401k, but when I hit 50, I
started max maxing out my my401k and as well as the catch-up
contributions.
And and I think soon after thatwe had HSA available to us, so I
maxed out my HSA.
(32:33):
So I was maxing out all myretirement vehicles.
Um and that's been oh well, Iguess that yeah, that's the HSA
has been a huge boon for a lotof people aren't retiring
because of medical.
Um they like that they'regetting insurance from their
jobs, but to me it hasn't been abig deal at all.
Uh I'm still luckily I was luckyto have three years of Cobra,
(32:56):
and I'm just gonna finish thatup going into next year.
Um and so I'm only gonna have tobe on the ACA for about 20
months or private insurance orwhatever.
I still have to look into that.
I started I started looking atACA and I I'm not going to do
that.
I'm gonna go to my maximum Cobrabecause it's cheaper.
Um, and and I've been doing Rothconversions in retirement.
(33:17):
Um, and so that's making mysalary salary high.
I'm going up to a certain taxbracket and stopping there.
Um, and so I'm not gonna get anysubsidies anyway.
So so that I don't have to worryabout that.
Um but so yeah, um, and I haveand yeah, lots of reading early
(33:38):
on.
Um some great books I read andand podcasts, and there's a this
guy named Rob Berger that I wasreally instrumental.
I found him early when hestarted doing his podcast,
financial podcast.
He's a guy who retired earlyfrom being a lawyer.
Um and he's and he's pretty bignow on on YouTube, and um he
(33:59):
came out with a book, and um,but he he had some great ideas.
And then yeah, as far as um so II I'm a do-it-yourselfer.
I like doing my own finances,but I because I love I love it
and I stay on top of it, andit's fun for me.
But anybody who doesn't enjoythat part of it, yeah, I think
they should get a financialadvisor.
In fact, I was I was doing mymom's for a little while, and
(34:21):
actually I'm still doing alittle bit of it, but um, she
ended up getting a financialadvisor, um, which actually made
it easier for me because I don'thave to get uh I can concentrate
on my thing and not worry somuch about hers, and know it's
hers and that she's in goodhands.
Um and yeah, but I I but Ivetted those people and they're
good, they're good, and justlike I've vetted you guys, and I
(34:44):
think you guys are excellent,and then that's why I've I'm on
today, because I I found youguys early on in your pod on
your uh YouTube journey and beenreally impressed with you guys,
and and your knowledge is allspot on from everything that
I've I've learned and and andknown.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
Yeah, well, thank you for that, Steve.
Appreciate it.
As we wrap, I want you to thinkof that person that's watching
this and was maybe in similarshoes as you, where they they're
financially prepared, they knowthey want to retire, but there's
maybe some fears about what's onthe other side, am I gonna
regret it?
What am I gonna do?
If you could speak to thatperson, knowing what you know
(35:22):
about your experience at least,what would you tell them?
Not about the financial side ofthings, but what's waiting for
them on the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Well, well, I do have to mention what finan what
you made me think of just nowfinancially is because I was I
wasn't sure how it was gonnalook.
Um, and in and uh spending yourmoney with no income coming in
is a lot different than when youhave a job and and money's
coming in.
So I was worried about that.
But I would tell people, yeah,um, well, I mean, I there's a
(35:53):
there is a fear of sequence ofreturns risk, but for me it's
been fantastic, and and my networth has continued to grow, and
so that's been a nice surprisewhile I'm spending pretty pretty
freely.
Um so and and sure, I'll adjustif if things go south, um, or
when they invariably do, becausewe know that's gonna happen.
(36:13):
But you know what, we know thatall happen eventually, but yeah,
you've got to prepare preparefor the ups and downs.
Um, but yeah, no, as far asfreedom, yeah, just think about
what you what you want to do,try to envision what you want
your life to look like inretirement, and then just go for
that.
And um, and and it's been forme, it's been as good or better
(36:33):
than I even imagined.
Um and uh yeah, oh yeah, and Idid mention that the HSA for
healthcare, uh now I have nofears of how I'm gonna pay my um
my COVID or my ACA and to get meto to Medicare age.
Um so yeah, don't let don't letum that stop you from retiring
(36:58):
because I do see a lot of peoplesay, Oh, I'm not gonna retire
until um I get to Medicare age.
unknown (37:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
Well, thank you, Steve, for that.
And just one more time, myguidance to the audience
listening from what I've learnedfrom you is don't be afraid to
try new things and don't beafraid to understand what do you
value, and then how do you dothings that align with that?
It's gonna have benefits thatmaybe you couldn't even have
anticipated.
The freedom to be with yourmother, or she was diagnosed
(37:28):
with her diagnosis, the freedomto be with your sons as they're
on different sides of thecountry, the freedom to pursue
the things that are mostimportant to you, some of those
things you couldn't have knownprior to retiring.
But being in a position whereyou had the freedom and the
willingness to keep trying newthings, amazing to see how fun
it's been for you and how muchyou've enjoyed it.
So thank you, Steve, for comingon, and thank you for sharing
your experiences here on thisepisode of Retirement Reality.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Thank you.
It's been great talking to you.
Two and a half years, you've been retired.
If you could summarizeretirement in one word so far,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Freedom.
Yeah.
It makes me want to sing thesong.
Uh I think it's Rita Franklin.
She goes, Freedom, freedom,freedom.
But yeah, no, it's it's beenamazing.
I can all my time is mine.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
When you retire, did it feel like an escape from
something?
And so that's where thefreedom's coming from, or was it
just a different level offreedom?
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
I actually had a great, great job with great
people.
And I was at the same companyfor the last 23 years of my
career.
So it had nothing to do with thejob, which I loved.
And I was making some of my bestmoney of my career at the end
there, too.
And but it was all about wantingthat that freedom to do what I
want to do when I want to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Steve had his dream job.
He loved who he worked with andhe was making great money, but
he still decided to walk away at60.
Tune in to hear how a majorhealth scare led to Steve
rethinking what retirement evenmeans for him and how the first
two and a half years have beencomplete and total freedom.
Enjoy today's episode withSteve.
Steve, thank you for joining metoday.
How long have you now beenretired?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
It's been almost exactly two and a half years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Two and a half years.
And what did you do for workprior to retiring?
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
I I was lucky enough to be a video game programmer.
Um and I worked in games myalmost my entire career, uh,
other than my first two yearsout of college.
Um so and that's something Ialways enjoyed as a kid is
playing games and my dad broughthome a computer, and and I was
lucky enough to move into thatand stay there my whole career.
You know, it's been great.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Wonderful.
Found something you enjoyed andstay with it for a while.
I want to come back to that.
But before I do, two and a halfyears, you've been retired.
If you could summarizeretirement in one word so far,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Freedom.
Yeah, it makes me want to singthe song.
Uh I think it's Retha Franklin.
She goes, Freedom, freedom,freedom.
But yeah, no, it's it's beenamazing.
I can all my time is mine.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
I wanted let's talk about that a bit more.
Because it sounds like you had acareer.
You were in the video gameprogrammer, you enjoyed video
games.
It was something that when youretire, did it feel like an
escape from something?
And so that's where thefreedom's coming from, or was it
just a different level offreedom that you could never
have even doing a job you loved?
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Yeah, it's the latter.
I mean, I I actually had agreat, great job with great
people, and I was at the samecompany um for the last 23 years
of my career, and uh, and manyof those people were there a lot
of those years, so we becamelike family.
Um, so it had nothing to do withthe job, which I loved, and I
was making some of my best moneyof my career at the end there,
(02:39):
too.
And but it was all about wantingthat that freedom to do what I
want to do when I want to do it,and have and have my time um to
use as I like to use it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
How old were you when you retired?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
I was 60.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
So so I'm here, and you enjoyed your job, you
enjoyed the people you weredoing it with, you are making
good money, you still decided toretire, and early's relative,
but I would say an earlyretirement.
What led to that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Well, well, one thing is in 2021 I had a heart
attack, and and I weighed over70 pounds more than I weigh now.
And so that was a huge wake-upcall, just in my life in
general.
Um, and after that I changed mydiet and I started exercising
consistently for the first timein my life, which I still do
(03:31):
today.
And it's it's actually one of mythings that I enjoy doing in
retirement, and it gives meplenty of time to do it.
Um, but that that wake-up callprobably pushed me to retire a
little earlier than I might haveif I if that hadn't happened.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
How soon, and thank you for sharing that, Steve.
How how soon after the heartattack did you realize I got to
make a change?
And that change is probablyretirement, so I can prioritize.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
Well, I didn't it it didn't go straight to
retirement.
Um it the the it went straightto health.
And yeah, and it was likeovernight.
Um and in fact, I'm not a personthat gets depressed, but I had a
severe depression for one dayfollowing my heart attack.
It like I had never had before.
And and after that, it just likeI said, total wake-up call and
(04:21):
started eating healthy.
And um I well, of course, I hadto go through uh cardiac cardiac
rehab, and uh and so learned alot there.
And but but no, I but way beforethat though, I had always been
wanting to retire early.
Um I had read books financialwhen I was a kid, like Richest
(04:41):
Man in Babylon from way backwhen I was a kid, and and I had
early on, I had reading aboutMr.
Money Mustache and the earlyyears of the fire community.
Um, so I I had always had it inthe back of my mind, but the the
heart attack is what pushed itforward.
And then I started thinkingabout well, yeah, started
looking at the numbers.
(05:02):
Um and yeah, I got somefinancial software, and and then
actually my mom has a financialfinancial advisor, and then and
they were able to do a freeconsultation to also confirm
what the financial software wastelling me that I I could do it.
And so, so yeah, it's um I hadalways thought I always wanted
(05:22):
to get on the early side, but Imean it wasn't easy.
I I actually I went through adivorce um when I was 45, 47,
um, and I and half my 401k wentto my ex-wife.
Um, so that was a huge blow atthat time.
But it was it's actually afterthat that I really got started
getting good with money.
(05:43):
Um, because I I never knew howto budget.
It started with budgeting.
That was the important firststep because I I never budgeted
well.
And then my ex-wife and I, wehad no extra money to our name.
All we had is what was in ourretirement accounts, um, and
actually some credit card debt,which I despise.
Um but after that, I I actuallyfound a software called YNAB.
(06:06):
You need a budget, and that andthat taught me how to budget
correctly for the first time inmy life.
And that that that starting stepwas huge in getting me slowly
building up my savings over timeand just started thinking about
finances the right way, and thenstarted learning about
investing.
And um, yeah, and I forgot nowwhere the question started here.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
No, thank you a lot there.
That there was a heart attack.
There was the the brief scent ofeven depression following that.
There was a divorce, there waslearning to budget, there was
the sense of always wanting toretire early, but needing to
develop the skills to actuallybe able to do so.
I want to cover each of thosejust even briefly.
The depression, what what whatwhen you were feeling that, what
(06:47):
was the depression over?
Was it the fact that mygoodness, I almost just lost my
life, or was it somethingrelated to inability to
prioritize health?
What was causing that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Yeah, no, it's uh the first thing you said.
Um, just the scare.
I mean, I have two grown sons,um, and I want to be there for
them.
And that's another reason forstaying in great health.
And I don't have grandkids yet,but they're coming, and I want
to be there for my grandkids aswell.
But but yeah, it was just thatit was mostly that, just wanting
to be there for my sons and andlive a long, long life.
(07:19):
Yeah.
And and I'm I've I've alwaysbeen in technology.
I I want to see where technologygoes as long as I can.
Like virtual reality isfascinating to me.
And so yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
You gotta be around long enough to see grandchildren
and also see where technologytake us uh in this crazy journey
we're on.
Um, so what was that?
So you had the heart attack in2021.
You retired in 2023, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
What was that journey like?
So you always wanted to retireearly.
This maybe accelerated things orreally brought things into
perspective.
Can you just kind of walk usthrough how did how did that
because it's one thing torealize, oh, I need to
prioritize this.
It's another thing to actuallydo it.
And in your case, it wasn't justhealth, but I think it was also
retirement was more of likephase two of that, to be able to
fully prioritize not justhealth, but also freedom,
(08:06):
flexibility, all of that.
How did how did what did thatprocess look like?
Was it an immediate, easy, I cannow prioritize this and do this,
or was it a a a series of thingsyou worked through to get to
where you are?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Yeah, it was it was kind of it wasn't immediate, it
was more gradual.
Um I mean, yeah, I I guess I'dalways I said I always wanted to
retire early, but I never reallyhad any action plan and and
dates in mind um until after theheart attack.
And it was gradual, and I juststarted thinking, yeah, it would
be great to have my time tomyself and be able to pursue
(08:43):
some other things in life.
And and um, and that's when Istarted thinking about it
gradually and the numbers.
And I had a I have a friend thatretired really young just
because uh he had a rottensituation with his job.
Um and his his mom was goingthrough some some things, and
the job didn't make it easy.
Um but but he handled it um andhe had it was probably like five
(09:06):
years before before me, and hewas younger than me, um, as a
college buddy.
Um so, anyways, I I had seenexamples of it, and um yeah, I
just it was just a gradualthing, and then I yeah, I
started looking at the money andyeah, can I retire?
And then I started gettingexcited about it um a couple of
years before, yeah, until Ifinally said, yeah, this is it.
(09:30):
And then, oh yeah, well, I'llI'll talk about that later.
But yeah, then I came up with aplan on how I was gonna tell my
work because I I did like my joba lot and I wanted to give them
plenty of time.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
Oh well, I do want to touch uponthat one second.
But what I what happened is itsounds like the plan finally
there was always a desire toretire early, but never maybe
wasn't a formalized plan of howto do that.
I think so many people feelthat.
If I want to retire, I want todo this, I want to travel, but
the missing link between wherethey are and where they want to
be, it just put simply a plan.
(10:01):
What are you gonna do to movefrom where you are to where you
want to go?
What do you need to do with your401k?
What do you need to do with thebudget?
What do you need to do withhealth insurance, social
security, whatever the casemight be?
And it sounds like the healthscare was really the thing that
said, time to connect the dotsbetween what I'm saying I want
and the practical steps to getthere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Exactly.
Yeah, because it it's easy to umjust stay in the same path that
you're on and just yeah, keepdoing what you're doing.
And it's that's easy.
It's it's hard to break out ofthat and uh and make these next
steps, um, which yeah, I have Ieven though I had talked about
it, but I had never put it inaction, and then I start putting
it in action.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Yeah, well, and one of the hopes of the show, too,
is I'm hoping that for peoplelistening, it's not a heart
attack that's the wake-up callto say, get a plan in order to
do this.
It's the lessons from Steve,it's the lessons from others of
okay, like there was a forcingfactor there, but maybe this
episode can be that forcingfactor for some people of all
that's missing, all that standsbetween them and what they want
(11:03):
to do is get a plan in order.
You can do this on your own, youcan do this with software, you
can do this with the financialadvisor, whatever it is, get
that plan.
Because to go back to what yousaid, freedom is the word that
you've used to describe the lasttwo and a half years, and you
enjoyed what you did for work.
So, how much more so are youenjoying now?
And I'm and we're gonna hearabout that in just a second.
But how was that preparing totell your work?
(11:26):
Knowing this is a job you lovewith people you love, making
good money.
What fears did you have?
What what uh what did that feellike as you're preparing to tell
them?
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah, I don't I don't know if there were any
fears.
Um and and I didn't get anypushback, which kind of
surprised me a little bit.
But but I think because I hadthat heart attack, I think
that's why I didn't get anypushback.
Um, but uh yeah, um I lost mytrain of thought here.
Um what were we talking aboutagain?
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Telling telling your firm you're gonna retire.
Tell your company, I'm gonnaretire.
Was that scary?
Was it easy?
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
Yeah, no.
Yeah, it wasn't scary, but uh, Iwanted to come up with a plan
and I wanted to give them plentyof time because they had been
really good to me, so I wantedto be good to my company.
Um so I because a lot of peopletalk about a month or two
months, but I said, okay, I'mgonna give them six months.
Um, so they have plenty of timebecause and I knew what they
need to replace, and they needto work on um getting um other
(12:27):
programmers in to cover my whatI my specialty was.
And uh so I want to give themplenty of time, and then it
turned out I gave me more timebecause at one point they're
just trying to decide whetherwe're gonna hire a new
programmer or um get some acontractor to work on a
particular thing, um, part ofour project.
(12:47):
And so I said, okay, well, Igotta tell them now because I
knew the right answer was to geta programmer, uh, not a um
contractor.
And so I told them about ninemonths before I retired.
And so I think they appreciatedthat, and and we used it to good
effect, and we got an excellentprogrammer, which helped make my
(13:08):
transition much easier.
And I had plenty of time toimpart my wisdom um to the next
generation.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
Yeah.
Is there anything, Steve, youmiss about work?
You even given the fact thatyou're in love and retirement,
anything you miss about work?
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Yeah, just the people, the hanging out with uh
my friends um from work.
And and well, that another thingis is I stayed in, I was in San
Diego, and um I I stayed therefor a year after I retired.
But then I since have moved toArizona um in in 2024, um, which
(13:46):
is where I'm originally from, myhome state, and it's where my my
mom is and friend and otherfriends and family.
Um, but uh yeah, can you imagineI left San Diego for Arizona for
that for that heat up in perfectweather?
But um, but it's been a greatmove for me.
And and also finance is um factfactored in there too, because I
(14:07):
knew my money went a lot furtherhere in Arizona than they did in
California just because of taxesand property taxes and cost of
living and lots of lots of otherreasons.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Very cool.
I want to shift gears a littlebit.
A lot of people, you and I weretalking before we hit record, of
a lot of people, they plan forretirement, and their planning
is purely financial.
They run the numbers, they getthe software, they do the
budgeting, and they think thatthe numbers alone are going to
get them to this point offeeling confident that they can
do it.
And they realize there's still agap because it's not just are
(14:41):
you financially prepared?
There's also the are youmentally prepared, are you
psychologically prepared?
Do you know what you want to do?
And I think just hearing storiesof what's on the other side, the
good and the bad, is so helpfulto a lot of people.
Will you share just thehighlights, the lowlights,
everything in between of how thefirst two and a half years have
gone for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
Sure.
Um, well, first of all, yeah, II wasn't caught by surprise
because I had been I had thoughtabout it a lot, especially since
after the heart attack, abouthow I wanted to live my life and
um and how retirement mightlook.
I thought about it a lot.
So I I knew and and it and itand it worked out exactly as I
had hoped, and better than I hadhoped, actually.
(15:23):
Um, because I wanted to get backinto music, which I had um I had
always always played music.
Um, and so I was able to getinto a couple of jazz bands um
since retirement, and I'm I'mplaying more as much or more
than I was even planning on.
Um so that's been great.
(15:44):
I'm I've been getting jazzlessons, um, improv lessons.
I I took an acting class, whichis just something out of the
blue.
I'd I just had interested in theprocess of acting, but I had I
didn't know anything about it.
So I said, you know what, I'mgonna do something to get out of
my comfort zone.
That's something I couldn't doduring my working years.
Um so that was just something II didn't even think about until
after I was retired.
(16:04):
And I did that, that was fun.
I met some really neat peopleand had a blast room.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Was that scary to do?
Did it did it take you a whileto psych yourself up to say, I'm
gonna do this new scary thing,or was it a pretty simple
decision and then you did it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Yeah, I kind of I kind of just said, you know
what, I started thinking aboutit, said, hey, that'd be fun.
And I started looking around,Googling about what was
available in Arizona, and Ifound something, and it turned
out to be the perfectfoundational acting class and
met great people.
And and yeah, I was a little outof my comfort zone in the class,
but I um well I've I was Ialways had to perform music on a
(16:40):
stage, so I I'm a little bitcomfortable with getting out
there, but it's still adifferent muscle.
And yeah, just let loose and anddo all these wild things in
front of other people.
Um, so it took a little bit, butyeah, definitely out of my
comfort zone, but but it wasn'ttoo bad.
unknown (16:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
How many of these things that you're doing now?
Music, obviously you justmentioned acting, other hobbies,
how many of these are thingsthat you could have done in your
working years versus how much ofthis is only possible being
fully retired?
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Well, the music, uh I always I always kept up on my
instrument.
I play the trombone.
And uh I kept up on it while Iwas re while I was working, um,
but not playing a lot of bands.
I played on occasional bands umover the years, uh, but not
nothing regularly.
Um but I kept up and practiced.
Um sometime.
(17:30):
I mean I'm sure I had some timewhere I went years without
playing much, but uh I kept on alittle bit, but um, but yeah, so
that was something.
And and I was too tired to Icouldn't practice during the
day, and by the time I wanted topractice, it would be later at
night, and and I didn't want tobug my neighbors, so so it
wasn't a great time to practice.
(17:51):
Um so now I can practice allduring the day, all day long if
I want.
But um so that's something.
Um and then yeah, and justplaying in these bands, I I
wouldn't have had the time orenergy.
I I was always like when I wasworking, I'd after my job, I
would I would just um be on thecouch watching TV and and I had
(18:13):
no energy to to do things thatnow I have tons of energy.
And working out too.
I can work out, I had to workout early morning or it was too
hard in the evening, so I don'tdo early mornings while I was
working.
Um luckily I was working fromhome for a little while because
of COVID and all that, and so Iwas able to actually get some
sets in while I'm working.
(18:33):
Um, so that was that was kind ofcool, but uh but I definitely
didn't have the time to dedicateto it that I have now.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
Yeah.
One of the things you said uh acouple minutes ago, Steve, was
that you thought a lot aboutwhat you wanted retirement to
look like.
And I think that's a veryhealthy exercise to have an idea
of what you are retired to, whatyou want life to look like.
Not that you can perfectlypredict it, but to have some
sense of what am I gettingmyself into?
What do I want to do if you doit by purpose?
(19:01):
And then just drift intosomething that becomes very
reactionary.
How do you think is that simplysomething that's it's literally
just a thought?
Do you journal?
Do you talk to people?
Do you read think what doesthinking about what you want
life to look like look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Yeah, well, I I guess it's just a lot of thought
and um and based on things I Ihad read and and watched about
early retirement and how otherpeople had done it.
But uh yeah, it was and yeah,it's it's really important.
I mean, I've talked to peoplenow that like some of my
coworkers from the past, andsome of them, yeah, they don't
(19:39):
they haven't thought about it atall, and they just think, yeah,
this is what I'm doing, and I'mgonna do it till retirement age.
Um and they don't really have,and they maybe don't have a lot
of hobbies, and so maybe workingis is still good for them to
keep do to keep working.
Um but but if somebody has a lotof hobbies and a lot of things
that they like to do that theycan't do while they're working,
(20:03):
um that's those are the peoplethat yeah, I can really think
about.
Oh yeah, traveling.
I did I did a lot of travel,I've done a lot of traveling
since I retired.
That's something that I couldn'tI mean, I could do like a like
one or two trips a year or onthe shorter side, but now I can
do long trips and I can do uhopen-ended trips.
(20:23):
Um they don't have to have acertain date where I'm done,
which is gives me more freedomum on vacation.
I can stay another week in Italyif I if I wanted to.
Um, so yeah, it's that's beenfantastic too.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
Sorry, have you gone somewhere where you said I'm
loving this so much, I'm gonnastay around for another five
days, seven days.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
I I don't know if I've done um done that yet, but
but when I when I did take aEuropean trip in 2023 after my
retirement, um I uh oh yeah, sothe first I had I went to
Edinburgh, Scotland, I went toum France, um and then and then
(21:05):
to Italy.
And the first two legs I hadkind of all planned out and and
I I was meeting my son for a lotof that.
Um and then the last leg inItaly, I didn't plan it at all.
Um I didn't have hotels oranything, and I just figured it
out as I went, so that wasdifferent, or where I was gonna
go in Italy.
And it was getting towards theend of my trip, so I was getting
(21:26):
a little tired.
So I didn't want to, I'm glad Ididn't have a bunch of different
locations.
So I ended up just going to Romeand and and Florence.
Um, and I'm glad I didn't haveall kinds of other things
planned.
Um, so yeah, so that was a timewhere I was able to just um go
with the flow and and do whatwas fun and where I was enjoying
(21:46):
things.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Yeah, very cool.
Um back to you had thought a lotabout what you wanted life to
look like in retirement, you'dalso planned financially for
what retirement might look like.
How close is what you'reactually spending today as you
talk about budgeting and talkabout what is it gonna cost?
How close is what you'reactually spending to what you
thought retirement would cost?
SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
I yeah, it's been uh I have I haven't slowed down on
my spending, I'll be honest withyou.
It's I mean, I've um it's I Iand I didn't really yeah, and I
probably needed to put morethought into what my retirement
spending would be.
All but but so far, well, andand I am it's kind of a I'm
gonna do it in an intuitivemanner too, because we have all
(22:33):
these rules, the 4% rule, or ornow it's a 4% 4.7% rule or or
whatever, and all and theseguardrails approaches, all these
different things.
And I've just kind of do itintuitively.
The the the market's been up, souh, so I'm I'm spending kind of
freely.
I've I've I've uh I've beenenjoying my money, and and I
know now's the time to enjoy itand spend it.
(22:54):
Um if if the market has adownturn, I I would I'll
probably slow slow down.
But I I mean I do know what mycore expenses are.
Um so if if I had to, I I I knowI'll last a long time.
And um, and I've and I'vethought a lot about when I'm
gonna start Social Security, andI'm I think I'm gonna wait till
70.
Um, so that'll extend because II hope to live a long time now
(23:18):
because uh I'm be keeping myhealth up.
And uh so my goal is to maximizesocial security, and I think
that alone would cover my coreexpenses um starting at 70 uh
going forward.
And and we know things slow downeventually, but I I hope not I
hope to extend that further andfurther as um I mean uh as
(23:40):
medical advances keep going.
I mean, people are living longerand they're living healthier
longer, and I hope they keepkeep up with that trend.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
And health is obviously a big priority for you
right now.
What did you do?
So you lost 70 pounds after theheart attack, you're really
prioritizing your health.
For a lot of people, health hasbeen so deprioritized they don't
even know what to do to get backinto the routine.
Is it daily walks?
Is it going to the gym?
Is it swimming?
Is it pickleball?
What does your health routinelook like?
What's what's been so effective,allowing you to lose 70 pounds
(24:10):
and seemingly really enjoyingwhat you're doing for your
health routine?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Yeah, well, I mean, it's it took many, many years to
put on those extra pounds.
So you can't expect to get ridof it all at once.
So it's been a gradual processover the those four years.
Well, I mean, I started before Iretired.
I started on that journey.
Um, but so it's been about fouryears of of and then a lot of
(24:36):
it's trial and error and andwatching, uh, and YouTube is
great for lots of differentfitness um sources.
Um so I've tried lots ofdifferent things.
It sort of started off graduallyjust with the caloric deficit,
um, and then changing my diet,because I I I like to joke that
I used to be on a cheeseburgerdiet because I ate a lot of way
(24:58):
too many cheeseburgers.
Um so and I learned in my mycardio rehab I I gotta start
eating fish and chicken and umbecause I'm still a carnivore.
Um and so I'm still gonna eatmeat, but uh I'm I cut out a lot
of the red meat, although I haveput some of the red meat back
in, but I'm still withinmoderation.
And as I'm in in much betterhealth now, um feeling good and
(25:23):
watching that.
But yeah, I started gradually,yeah, just caloric deficit, and
then I said, Oh, you know what,I gotta start weight training.
So I started doing weighttraining, um, and not uh not
even going to a gym, but I I hadmy own adjustable dumbbells and
a in a weight bench, um, and apull-up bar and uh a dip bar,
and so I was doing that at home,um, so along with the caloric
(25:45):
deficit.
And oh, and I was doing cardio.
I had I bought a an ellipticalmachine.
Um, so I was doing that.
Um the cardio was probably thething I enjoyed the least.
I just just do it sitting on astationary um exercise um
machine was kind of boring.
(26:07):
Even with iFit and following atrainer around the world or
whatever, and it changingelevations, it was pretty cool
technology.
But um so but yeah, so I so Ikept evolving my my health
journey too.
So it I a few years ago I foundthis I switched from from
weights.
I I used to get joint issues onlike bicep curls and my elbows
(26:31):
and um and different things.
Um and so I switched to theseheavy bands with a it's a foot
plate and and bands and uh and abar and like an Olympic type
bar, um solid bar.
Um and you can do all thesedifferent exercises, and they're
not and it's not like the lightbands that we had like in cardio
rehab, but these are heavy duty,there's a whole range of them,
(26:51):
so you can go up in and weightum and even combine them.
But anyway, so I switched fromfrom traditional weights to
these heavy-duty bands, and umnow all my joint pains went
away, and I'm still haven't lostany strength and um and continue
to lose lose weight and and gainstrength, or at least get my
maintain my strength while I'mlosing weight.
(27:12):
Um, and then cardio, I I figuredout a secret to cardio for me,
which was virtual reality of allthings, because um I found I had
a I had a headset, thisMetaQuest 3 headset, and um I
started saying, yeah, uh I bet Icould find some exercises on
that because you're movingaround and and I found this
(27:35):
software called Supernatural,where you're in these 3D
environments all over the world,and uh you're hitting targets to
music.
They have different modes.
There's one called flow, andyou're hitting all these
targets, and you're you knowmoving around and and and
squatting and and back up, andand then there's also a boxing
mode, so you're ducking andweaving and and boxing.
(27:56):
Um and so that turned out to befun fun cardio.
And so I've been doing thatsince April of this year, and
very consistently, and I I soldmy elliptical because I I found
a new way to do cardio because II had tried walking all and just
getting my steps in, but that itreally wasn't for me in it.
(28:17):
It was it was very timeconsuming.
And I'd rather um do a littlemore higher intensity cardio for
shorter tier period and and havefun with it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:26):
So it's all evolved.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I switched I switched the the bands, I yeah,
yeah, to the fun cardio, and soI found what works for me.
So I love it.
Um so now, yeah, and I've beenit's been like four years of
strength training consistently,and and I had always done it as
a kid and as I got older, butonly for it only lasts like two,
three, three months if I waslucky at a time.
(28:49):
And now it's been it's been justconsistent.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Yeah.
Well, I think the principle herethat I'm hearing is is identify
the things that are important.
In this case, it's health, butit could be relationships, it
could be hobby, like it could beanything, and then experiment.
What you started with isn't whatyou're still doing now.
You bought the elliptical, butnow you're doing something
different.
You started with strengthtraining, but now you're doing
something different.
And I think that that's if I hadto guess probably why
(29:14):
retirement's been so amazing isyou're not afraid to try things
that align with what you valueand then iterate and find that
thing and not expect it to beperfect the first time around,
whether it's acting classes,health stuff, what you're doing
for travel, the right thing isgonna be found if you just keep
sticking with it.
Um, a few more questions beforewe wrap your state.
(29:38):
At the very beginning, I couldjust tell that retirement these
first two and a half years ofretirement have been incredible.
Is there one particular momentthat stands out where you said
that was a moment that just kindof summarizes how this has been?
The freedom I've experienced,the enjoyment of it all.
Does any moment come to mind?
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Well, yeah, there's a few moments.
Well, one is not so positive.
Um I I moved back to Arizona in2020.
And my mom was diagnosed withcolon cancer at the end of 2024.
So, but the fact that I'm hereand able to help her out and see
her often has been a great boonfor in my retirement that I was
(30:15):
that the timing worked out sowell that I'm able to be here
for her.
So that's not a not so greatthing, but great that I'm there
for her, and she I know shereally appreciates it.
But then, yeah, just the freedomand I've been able to travel and
see both my both of my sons areon opposite coasts.
One's in Brooklyn, New York, andone's in Santa Cruz, California.
(30:36):
So I need to travel to see them,and they're working, so they
can't travel as much.
But so I'm able to go out to NewYork and have a fantastic time
out there.
And this summer I went to SantaCruz and hung out with my son
there, and we had a great time.
And so, yeah, and then travelingto Europe was a great moment.
(30:58):
And um and yeah, just thefreedom to go at any time.
I can I can leave my home and beand go go somewhere or go do
something.
I I have plans to go see my Ihave a brother in Oregon.
I can go I'm gonna go see himsoon.
It's like there's like so manychoices of things to do.
Um so yeah, yeah, those, yeah.
(31:18):
It's been a lot of greatmoments.
SPEAKER_01 (31:20):
Freedom to do what you want, when you want, with
who you want, uh, and all ofthat.
Um you have you you clearly dida lot of your own research,
learning, watching videos,listening to podcasts, reading,
getting feedback from others.
Are there any kind of corepieces of advice that were
transformational to your abilityto retire when you're able to
(31:44):
retire, or transformational yourability to enjoy retirement and
the way that you have enjoyed itthat you would want to share
with the listeners?
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah, well, I mean, it I mean, it starts with the
the money base, I mean, whichfor me was for me was budgeting.
That was my big eye-opener.
Um, so once I learned how tobudget and budget well, that led
that was like the root root, nopun intended, of the tree that
uh that started my financialjourney on the right track.
(32:12):
Um, and then yeah, and then andit wasn't until I was I used to
always just do my my match um inmy 401k, but when I hit 50, I
started max maxing out my my401k and as well as the catch-up
contributions.
And and I think soon after thatwe had HSA available to us, so I
maxed out my HSA.
(32:33):
So I was maxing out all myretirement vehicles.
Um and that's been oh well, Iguess that yeah, that's the HSA
has been a huge boon for a lotof people aren't retiring
because of medical.
Um they like that they'regetting insurance from their
jobs, but to me it hasn't been abig deal at all.
Uh I'm still luckily I was luckyto have three years of Cobra,
(32:56):
and I'm just gonna finish thatup going into next year.
Um and so I'm only gonna have tobe on the ACA for about 20
months or private insurance orwhatever.
I still have to look into that.
I started I started looking atACA and I I'm not going to do
that.
I'm gonna go to my maximum Cobrabecause it's cheaper.
Um, and and I've been doing Rothconversions in retirement.
(33:17):
Um, and so that's making mysalary salary high.
I'm going up to a certain taxbracket and stopping there.
Um, and so I'm not gonna get anysubsidies anyway.
So so that I don't have to worryabout that.
Um but so yeah, um, and I haveand yeah, lots of reading early
(33:38):
on.
Um some great books I read andand podcasts, and there's a this
guy named Rob Berger that I wasreally instrumental.
I found him early when hestarted doing his podcast,
financial podcast.
He's a guy who retired earlyfrom being a lawyer.
Um and he's and he's pretty bignow on on YouTube, and um he
(33:59):
came out with a book, and um,but he he had some great ideas.
And then yeah, as far as um so II I'm a do-it-yourselfer.
I like doing my own finances,but I because I love I love it
and I stay on top of it, andit's fun for me.
But anybody who doesn't enjoythat part of it, yeah, I think
they should get a financialadvisor.
In fact, I was I was doing mymom's for a little while, and
(34:21):
actually I'm still doing alittle bit of it, but um, she
ended up getting a financialadvisor, um, which actually made
it easier for me because I don'thave to get uh I can concentrate
on my thing and not worry somuch about hers, and know it's
hers and that she's in goodhands.
Um and yeah, but I I but Ivetted those people and they're
good, they're good, and justlike I've vetted you guys, and I
(34:44):
think you guys are excellent,and then that's why I've I'm on
today, because I I found youguys early on in your pod on
your uh YouTube journey and beenreally impressed with you guys,
and and your knowledge is allspot on from everything that
I've I've learned and and andknown.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
Yeah, well, thank you for that, Steve.
Appreciate it.
As we wrap, I want you to thinkof that person that's watching
this and was maybe in similarshoes as you, where they they're
financially prepared, they knowthey want to retire, but there's
maybe some fears about what's onthe other side, am I gonna
regret it?
What am I gonna do?
If you could speak to thatperson, knowing what you know
(35:22):
about your experience at least,what would you tell them?
Not about the financial side ofthings, but what's waiting for
them on the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Well, well, I do have to mention what finan what
you made me think of just nowfinancially is because I was I
wasn't sure how it was gonnalook.
Um, and in and uh spending yourmoney with no income coming in
is a lot different than when youhave a job and and money's
coming in.
So I was worried about that.
But I would tell people, yeah,um, well, I mean, I there's a
(35:53):
there is a fear of sequence ofreturns risk, but for me it's
been fantastic, and and my networth has continued to grow, and
so that's been a nice surprisewhile I'm spending pretty pretty
freely.
Um so and and sure, I'll adjustif if things go south, um, or
when they invariably do, becausewe know that's gonna happen.
(36:13):
But you know what, we know thatall happen eventually, but yeah,
you've got to prepare preparefor the ups and downs.
Um, but yeah, no, as far asfreedom, yeah, just think about
what you what you want to do,try to envision what you want
your life to look like inretirement, and then just go for
that.
And um, and and it's been forme, it's been as good or better
(36:33):
than I even imagined.
Um and uh yeah, oh yeah, and Idid mention that the HSA for
healthcare, uh now I have nofears of how I'm gonna pay my um
my COVID or my ACA and to get meto to Medicare age.
Um so yeah, don't let don't letum that stop you from retiring
(36:58):
because I do see a lot of peoplesay, Oh, I'm not gonna retire
until um I get to Medicare age.
unknown (37:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
Well, thank you, Steve, for that.
And just one more time, myguidance to the audience
listening from what I've learnedfrom you is don't be afraid to
try new things and don't beafraid to understand what do you
value, and then how do you dothings that align with that?
It's gonna have benefits thatmaybe you couldn't even have
anticipated.
The freedom to be with yourmother, or she was diagnosed
(37:28):
with her diagnosis, the freedomto be with your sons as they're
on different sides of thecountry, the freedom to pursue
the things that are mostimportant to you, some of those
things you couldn't have knownprior to retiring.
But being in a position whereyou had the freedom and the
willingness to keep trying newthings, amazing to see how fun
it's been for you and how muchyou've enjoyed it.
So thank you, Steve, for comingon, and thank you for sharing
your experiences here on thisepisode of Retirement Reality.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Thank you.
It's been great talking to you.
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