November 19, 2025 • 32 mins
A cancer diagnosis changed everything. When Michael’s wife began chemo, time took on a new meaning. The long-term financial plan suddenly felt secondary to the years they still had together. That wake-up call led Michael, then 57, to retire a full decade earlier than planned, trading more income for more life.
In this conversation with James, Michael shares the mindset shift that made him walk away from a thriving career and a team he loved leading. He opens up about the guilt of leaving, the relief that followed, and the realization that a company replaces you faster than you think.
They also explore how a lifetime of small, consistent choices (early saving, investing through dividend reinvestment plans, and living below his means) gave Michael the freedom to say yes when life demanded it most. Now, his days are wide open: hiking sections of the Appalachian Trail, rediscovering old hobbies, and savoring the quiet moments that used to rush by.
It’s an honest look at what happens when money finally becomes a tool for time, not the other way around.
Want to be a guest on James’ show to help others by sharing your story? Complete this form: https://vwo3759x8i7.typeform.com/to/IwyScIeR
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Michael is not a client of Root Financial Partners, LLC and received no compensation for participating in this video. His statements reflect his own opinions and experience and are not indicative of any specific client’s experience and are not a guarantee of results. No cash or non-cash compensation was provided, and no material conflicts are known.
Advisory services are offered through Root Financial Partners, LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. This content is intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Viewing this content does not create an advisory relationship. We do not provide tax preparation or legal services. Always consult an investment, tax or legal professional regarding your specific situation.
The strategies, case studies, and examples discussed may not be suitable for everyone. They are hypothetical and for illustrative and educational purposes only. They do not reflect actual client results and are not guarantees of future performance. All investments involve risk, including the potential loss of principal.
Comments reflect the views of individual users and do not necessarily represent the views of Root Financial. They are not verified, may not be accurate, and should not be considered testimonials or endorsements
Participation in the Retirement Planning Academy or Early Retirement Academy does not create an advisory relationship with Root Financial. These programs are educational in nature and are not a substitute for personalized financial advice. Advisory services are offered only under a written agreement with Root Financial.
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
But what are the things that you are looking
forward to doing now that youwere not able to do while you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
It is it's a wide open book, and that's the great
thing about retirement.
You can do what you want whenyou want to do it.
And everything slows down.
I mean, I'm not in a hurryanymore.
Uh, you know, used to, you know,with you know, your job and and
your responsibilities at homeand everything, you know, it
seems like you're always in ahurry to get things done so you
can get back home or get back towork.
Or, you know, if I want to, Ican take a leisurely hour and a
(00:28):
half, two-hour lunch somewhereif I want to.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Michael always wanted to retire early, but it
wasn't until his wife's majorscare with cancer that reframed
the way he thought about work inthe first place.
Tune in as Michael shares abouthis journey and his wife's
journey through her chemotreatment, how this perspective,
along with the death of otherloved ones, led him to retire
early because life is preciousand we're never promised
tomorrow.
(00:51):
My guest on today's episode ofRetirement Reality is Michael.
Michael, if you could choose oneword to describe your retirement
so far, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Liberation.
I'm uh I'm no I'm no longerchained to a desk for eight
hours a day.
Um, no longer under, you know, Iwork from home, so no longer
under house arrest all day long,you know, eight hours a day.
Um I can do what I want when Iwant.
Um suffering my wife tells meno.
(01:24):
But um uh it is, it's just it'sit's real liberation to be able
to do things that maybe I wasnot able to do before because I
was always you know working oreither thinking about work or
you know, the other the otherstressors that could come along
with work, and and that's nomore.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
Sounds like it's off to a good start.
How long have you been retiredfor?
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
Um probably seven weeks.
I uh I stopped laboring on LaborDay weekend.
I thought that was appropriateto uh to start to stop then.
Um so yeah, so I'm I'm stillnewly retired, I guess you could
say.
Um yeah, I'm still I think uhstill have not really reached a
point where I'm bored or um, youknow, looking for other things
(02:10):
to do.
Uh, but also I've also beensomewhat busy during my my uh
retirement so far.
My uh my daughter was gotmarried, so I had that wedding.
And then also her best friendthat sort of um we helped raise,
frankly.
She grew up in our in our housesomewhat, so uh she also got
married.
So those are rehearsal dinnersand weddings taking up some of
(02:30):
the weekends.
Um I'm on vacation this weekdown here at the at the beach
here in Dustin, Florida.
So uh it's uh it's all good.
Retirement so far.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
How long have you been retired for?
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
How long have I been retired for?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
About seven weeks.
So like I said, yeah, like Isaid, I decided to stop laboring
on Labor Day weekend.
That's right.
Had a big uh barbecue and andsort of a retirement party with
a bunch of friends.
Yeah, you know, I'm alsosomewhat lucky.
I have a couple of friends whoare also retired that are about
my same age.
I'm 57.
Um, one of them's six, the otherone's 59.
(03:10):
So I immediately have a have afriend direct to go do things
with, you know, when I when Iwant to.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
So you retired fairly young.
What I it doesn't sound like youloved work.
It sounds like it was somethingthat you were excited to get
away from.
What prompted the decision toretire at 57?
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Frank, I always prepared to retire early.
Um, you know, when I firststarted working in the early
90s, um, there was a couplebooks that really had a an
effect on me.
You know, one of them was thethe Covey book, you know, Seven
Habits.
So begin with the end in mind,you know, is one of the habits.
And the other one wasMillionaire Next Door.
(03:47):
And, you know, both of those,you know, me and Next Door
talked about uh spend less thanyou make, so always save.
And in conjunction with that,um, my first employer, we they,
you know, they talked, theytalked to us about a 401k and
investments and growing thoseinvestments, compound interest
and and all that stuff.
Um, and so they had, I think itwas Vanguard actually, had a guy
(04:10):
from Vanguard come in and do anactual in-person presentation.
This is the four Zim calls and sand the thing.
So um that really left a lastingimpression on me.
So early on, I was in you knowinvesting quite a bit in our
401k, but also I was I starteddoing drips, um, dividend
reinvestment plans, um, whichlater became a brokerage
(04:33):
account.
So those things sort of set meoff early in in my career to
where I ended up doing prettywell.
Um now to answer the other partof your question, you know, what
was the motivation to retirewhen I did, besides you know,
being prepared financially, umit was, you know, my wife went
(04:54):
through cancer last year.
Um so she's she's in remissionnow, so that's you know, thank
thank the Lord for that.
But uh she had chemo for aboutsix months, seven months.
And so sitting in that chemoroom, which is you know, it's
like a big room with you know10, 20 chairs where people are
getting IV drips, you know, allkinds of different cancers, all
(05:18):
kinds, you know, all kinds ofseverity levels, some of them
terminal, um, all ages ofpeople.
So you see teenagers, you know,30-year-olds, 40-year-olds, you
know, old people, and it reallygives you a perspective on how
short life can be.
Um you really get to see thatwhile you have your health, you
(05:40):
should take advantage of that.
Um your health really is wealth.
And um, you know, while you havethe youth in your senior years,
you really need to takeadvantage of that before you're
not able to do things.
Or maybe you get that cancerdiagnosis, maybe you get, you
know, you break a hip or or youknow something like that where
you don't have your mobilityanymore.
(06:02):
Um so to me that was thatresonated with me quite a bit.
Um so that you know, those aresome of the things that sort of
went into my decision to goahead and and retire.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
I'm I'm glad you say that, Michael.
And and and and thank God yourwife is better now and she's in
remission, but there is thissense of not just, oh, we'll
live the traditional 80, 90years, but there's this sense
that all those years are createdequal.
And and one of the things I tryto preach so much in these
videos is you not all thoseyears are created equal.
You're 57 today.
(06:34):
The things you can do today aregonna be very different than the
things you can do at 77 or 87.
So even if you knew you had 30years of life left, the next
five are gonna be the best byfar on average than are the
latter 25 in a society scale.
And by the way, the earlier youdo retire and the earlier you
can start prioritizing yourhealth, the more of those good
(06:57):
years you're gonna have becauseyou can extend some of that
health span.
I'm curious, are you doinganything different now, just
even with life?
You your wife went through thatvery scary time, she's better
now, she's in remission now.
Are there things you've donebecause of that, outside of
retiring, of course, because ofthat fresh perspective?
SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Yeah, I mean, I've I've really started focusing on
my health.
Um, you know, I used to do like,you know, this uh tough murders
and savage races and all that,but the last couple of years I
sort of got out of shape becauseof what my wife was going
through.
And uh the year before that, ummy mother and and my aunt went
through some severe healthcrises.
(07:35):
They both passed away.
So taking care of my mother theyear before, and then this past
year, like I said, my wife umreally got out of shape.
So uh so I've been trying, Imean, where can I get in in
shape?
A buddy of mine, you know, heand I have been doing some of
the uh uh sections of theAppalachian Trail, which, you
know, that's a lot of elevation.
That's that'll definitely getyou in shape.
(07:55):
But uh also just you know,trying to get 10,000 steps a
day, just do you know anything Ican to improve my health.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
When you were still working, so you've been retired
for about two months now.
Were you able to prioritizehealth like you are now when you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Not you know, I was able I still would go to the gym
and and work out and that kindof thing.
But now it really has become afocus.
Um, because you know, like Isaid before, um you see, you
know, if you're not healthy,you're not able to do things.
Um my wife and I actually welive in Atlanta, Georgia.
So we went to when once she wasfinished with chemo as a
(08:33):
celebration, we did a trip thatshe always wanted to do.
We went to Napa.
So we did Napa in San Franciscoand all that, and um, which she
loved.
And unfortunately, she was notable to, you know, like we did
the jaw mere woods, hiking thewoods there and that park and
all that.
And unfortunately, she was nothealthy enough to be able to do
that as yet.
So she was just finishing upchemo.
(08:54):
But um, so again, our goal is tois to both of us be healthy
enough to where we can makethese trips and see things that
we've always you know read aboutor heard about, but now we have
an opportunity to actually goand do those things.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that you're doingthat.
Um, I want to go back to yourretirement for a second.
So you retired at 57.
A big part, maybe the full partof the impetus for that was wife
got a cancer diagnosis betternow, but that puts things into
perspective.
When did you feel like you werein a financial position to be
able to retire?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Um, actually, it's probably um the year before
that.
Um, like I I'd always, again,like I mentioned earlier, I
always had set goals early on.
And uh my I hit that financialgoal the year before that.
But uh ironically, my employeractually um you know, they
offered an HRA plan, and uh theywere phasing that out in January
(09:50):
of 2026.
So that was just said I wouldhave the money that was built up
in the HRA plan, which it wasn'ta huge amount, but it was you
know, it was it was not a smallamount either.
And that was that was just gonnago away.
That money would disappear.
So that was just added incentiveto go ahead and pull the
trigger, um, which I did.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
Yeah.
As you were preparing to makethat decision, to pull that
trigger, what was going throughyour mind?
I know that you were lookingforward to retirement, it sounds
like, but what fears, whatconcerns, what anxiety, what was
keeping you up at night as youwere getting ready to make that
decision?
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Part of it, you know, obviously, um I I led a
team of people, and you know,look I had a little bit of guilt
actually um leaving that teambecause I some of them I'd I
managed for you know over adecade.
And uh and I took you know, fora while there I took a lot of
satisfaction in training anddeveloping my people, seeing
(10:48):
them um, you know, you know, goup in their careers, go up the
ladder.
And uh so I I I felt a littleguilt, you know, of of leaving
those people.
But on the other hand, I thinkmost people, I've I've seen some
of these other interviews, and Iand I tend to agree that your
company is not gonna miss you.
(11:09):
You you you know, maybe for afew days until they find
somebody else to fill that spot,but um it's your company is you
you'll be forgotten a lot soonerthan you think you'll be
forgotten.
You're not you're not asindispensable as as you may
think.
And uh yeah, so um, so yeah,that and you know, and again, I
(11:30):
hit my financial goal and I wasjust ready to to start living
life, man.
I mean it's um it's you knowtechnically it's the worst
financial decision I could haveever made, you know, because you
know I I could have had another10 years of income, you know,
assuming you know you make acertain amount, that's gonna be
a million dollars more, right?
(11:51):
But um I was just I was justready.
And I haven't regretted it abit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
I I like what you just said because one of the
things that it there is thatchallenge of if you're running a
financial projection, there iszero times out of a hundred that
you're ever gonna run afinancial projection and
retiring early comes out as abetter financial decision.
That's always less income,that's always fewer
contributions to your 401k,that's always less money paid
(12:18):
into Social Security, that'salways more years of you needing
to fund your own healthcareexpenses, although in your case
you have the HRA that I knowwould help with some of that.
But I think that what you theconclusion you are you arrived
at is yes, money matters, butthere's these different almost
scorecards that we need to lookat is one is how am I doing with
my financial health?
But also you're already talkingabout my physical health, my
(12:41):
relational health, my ability tospend time with my wife, with my
donor, with the people thatmatter.
And the financial thing is sotangible, it's so in your face,
it's so easy to track that andto run projections that quantify
that.
The others are so much moredifficult to quantify until
they're gone.
And you have that very scaryexperience of being on the verge
(13:01):
of what happens if somethinghappens to my wife, then you
feel the pain.
But if you're not activelythinking that way of these years
are limited, these years areprecious, it's very easy to get
caught up in the one singletangible scorecard element,
which is the financial side ofthings and miss out on the rest.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and again, it's up toeverybody's comfort level.
I mean, you know, it's it'sreally not how much you have,
it's how much you have to spend,right?
I mean, if you if you haveexpenses that are still
basically keeping you havehaving to work, then that's
understandable.
But if if you're financiallyable to do it, just do it, man.
(13:40):
Because I'm I again, it's beengreat.
I mean, I'm I'm again, I'mpretty new into it, but uh I
just I've really enjoyed it sofar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
Well, you so you retired at 57.
You said about a year prior tothat, is that when you actually
felt like, yeah, I'm financiallyable to do it.
Was it was it wife's health thatdelayed it a year?
Was it the fear of telling yourteam or letting your team down,
at least in your own mind, thatyou're gonna not be there
anymore?
What would what what happenedover the course of that year
that finally prodded you to moveforward?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
I think you just you touched on both of them.
It was um my wife's health, sohealth insurance.
Um and then honestly, I just youknow, again, I wasn't really
burned out on work as yet.
I was getting there, but I wasnot yet.
Um so but the health insurancefor my wife, but obviously you
don't want to go through achange during the middle of
cancer treatments and chemo andall that.
(14:32):
Um, you don't want to risk anykind of issues with health
insurance.
Um, you know, as a you knowAmerica's health insurance uh is
it's a it's it's it's uhdifficult thing to talk about
because it's not as as uh it hasa lot of challenges, I'll put it
that way.
So it's expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
What are you so you're seven weeks in, eight
weeks in?
I know that granted there'smaybe still the honeymoon phase
of retirement, but what are thethings that you are looking
forward to doing now that youwere not able to do while you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
It's just it's it's a wide open book, man.
It's a wide open menu.
Um I have a friend of mine,she's into scuba diving, so
she's been trying to talk meinto I scuba, I used to scuba
dive back in in college, and uhso she's asking me to get
recertified and go to scubadiving trips with her.
I have some friends that are biginto pickleball, so they're
trying to recruit me to dopickleball.
(15:29):
Um I think I mentioned I have abuddy who's he's wanting to do
the uh Appalachian Trail.
Um I'm not gonna do the throughhikes.
I'm not gonna, you know, I thinkI've gotten a little too soft to
be in a tent and and uh norestrooms and that kind of
thing.
But um I'm fine with the sectionhikes, and we've already done a
couple sections of of theAppalachian Trail here in
Georgia.
(15:49):
But uh it's just it is it's awide open book, and that's the
great thing about retirement.
You you can do what you wantwhen you want to do it.
Um you know, and everythingslows down.
Um I'm not in a hurry anymore.
Uh, you know, used to, you know,with you know, your job and and
your responsibilities at homeand everything, you know, every
you know, it seems like you'realways in a hurry to get things
(16:10):
done so you can get back home orget back to work.
Or, you know, if I want to, Ican take a leisurely hour and a
half, two-hour lunch somewhereif I want to.
Um I don't have to, you know,when I'm at the gym, I'm not
trying to hurry and get througha workout anymore.
It's just it's no deadlines, youknow, it's it's just
everything's more relaxed.
(16:31):
There's no there's no morepressure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
That's actually I think maybe one of the things
that surprises people most isthey don't fully appreciate how
much of in a hurry they alwayswere until they're retired and
they're not in a hurry.
What was there a moment where ithit you, Michael, that oh, I can
I can take my time here?
Although you know you have thatfeeling of I gotta get
(16:55):
somewhere, I gotta getsomewhere, I gotta get home.
And you say, No, I don't.
I I don't have to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Well, I mean, the first thing was not having to
get up at 6 a.m.
anymore.
So uh when I did go into anoffice, I had to get up at 6
a.m.
because I had a 45-minutecommute.
Um you know, now you know,during after COVID, I was able
to work from home.
My my job moved to where I wasjust working from home.
So then I was getting up at 630, 6 45.
(17:22):
But now um, you know, I I sleepin until like 8, 8:30 if I want
to.
Um so it's right there is is youknow, I'm getting more sleep.
Uh there's again less stress.
And then, you know, I guess Iget up, you know, say I get up
at 8 30, I'll fix a cup ofcoffee, you know, read the news,
(17:44):
maybe watch you on YouTube, whoknows?
But uh, you know, and it'ssometimes, you know, after I
finish my coffee, a lot of timesI'll go on, you know, try to get
my 10,000 steps in, so I'll I'llgo on a long walk and listen to
YouTube videos or otherpodcasts, or and you know, or
I've actually started readingbooks again.
You know, for a long time there,I let myself be distractive of
work and or social media orwhatever.
(18:06):
And you know, I fell out of thepractice of reading books.
And and I've already read two orthree you know classics that I
always wanted to read.
Um, and I you know, I plan oncontinuing that.
So it's again, it's just thepossibilities are are are wide
open.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah.
I I know you've already comparedkind of health now versus health
in your working years.
If you're able to prioritizethat again, you're able to do
some of these hikes, you're ableto spend more time at the gym.
What about just mental health orstress levels or overall
feelings of calm and peace andhappiness?
How does that compare todayversus three months ago when you
(18:42):
were still leading up toretirement?
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yeah, it's it's again, it's it's it's the load
off your shoulders that youdon't have those work
responsibilities anymore.
And uh it's actually helped thatuh like I mentioned earlier, I
had a couple of friends who arealso already retired.
And uh so we meet up every nowand then and just you know
discuss because we're all sortof going through the same thing.
They retired before I did.
They're like I said, one ofthem's 60, otherwise 59.
(19:07):
And uh so they you know, they'vetalked about some of the things
that you and Ari's um YouTubeprogram that touches on is you
know, the boredom, um, you know,maybe feeling like you know
you're not needed anymore, thatkind of thing.
I haven't felt any of that, butbut uh you know, I think those
are maybe common things thatretirees maybe experience at
(19:28):
some point or another,especially if they had a high
stress job, a high pressure job,or where they manage people
perhaps, and all of a sudden ummaybe they feel like you know
they've turned into a nobody orsomething like that.
I I don't know.
I'm not a psychologist, what anymeans.
But um I haven't had any ofthat.
I I've had, you know, justagain, like I said, the feel of
(19:50):
liberation, the feel of freedom.
And uh, you know, if I wantresponsibilities, I can take on
responsibilities.
But at this point, I'm just I'mjust enjoying it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Do you think you would have retired when you did
had your wife not gone throughher cancer diagnosis and
treatment?
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think the HRA thing was wasalso a helpful determining
factor, but I maybe wouldn'thave had the perspective that I
had after seeing what what shewent through and also seeing
what those other people wentthrough in the chemo ring.
Um because it really it's it'sit's it's emotional seeing,
(20:27):
especially young people who aremaybe are terminal, but they're
just holding on to the hope totake the chemo and hopefully
maybe it'll work or prolongtheir life a little bit.
Um it's you know, it's justheartbreaking.
And and then you like Imentioned earlier, you really do
see how important your health isand take advantage of of that
(20:49):
health while you can.
Because you never know whensomething's gonna happen.
Um I didn't mean for thisepisode to be a cancer episode,
but I also have a neighbor twodoors down um who who has cancer
and and he he just ended hischemo because it's not
effective.
And it's just again, it'sheartbreaking.
And I I I I don't want to keepon repeating myself, but while
(21:12):
you have your health, do thethings that you want to do.
And and you know, obviously ajob can can limit your
opportunities to do those thingssometimes.
So if you're financially able todo it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
I hope that's the message people receive of this
this is not retirement advice.
There retirement's kind of insome weird philosophical way,
this made-up construct.
This is just life.
This is life advice of how doyou do the things you should be
doing to prioritize the thingsthat matter, which is your
health, which is yourrelationships, which is your
(21:48):
faith, which is your hobbies,which is how do you, regardless
of if you're 20 years old or 70years old or anywhere in
between, how do you do thingsthat matter today?
There just happens to be thisconception that, oh, there's
pre-retirement years andpost-retirement years.
And at the cusp of that is whenyou need to start thinking about
this.
But the reality is it shouldalways be a thought, regardless
(22:08):
of where you are.
And if your work is meaningfuland fun and you love it and you
love the people there andthere's purpose, work as long as
you can, as long as it's nothindering your ability to do
other things.
But the second that the thingsthat matter start to be
jeopardized by what you're doingnine to five, five days a week,
what you're saying is is is sotrue of you've got to step away
(22:30):
once you're financially readybecause you're not gonna get a
spouse back if somethinghappens.
You're not gonna get your ownhealth back if something
happens.
You're not gonna get anythingback once it's once it's passed.
Um I know your retirement so farhas been nothing but good
things, it sounds like it's beenliberation to use your word.
Have you do you know people whohave struggled in their
(22:52):
retirement with boredom, withloneliness, with lack of
structure, with lack of purpose,or does everyone you speak with
have positive things to say?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
No, one of my friends, um, I think he has
struggled with it a little bit.
Um he he was an attorney and anduh I think he was you know, I
think he really thrived ontrials and the build up the
trials and and all that.
So I think you know, he he'sbeen looking into maybe doing
something else like as apart-time gig, maybe even
(23:21):
teaching that kind of thing.
Which, you know, who knows?
I may try to do something likethat someday.
But um again, you know, I thinksome people probably do look for
um something else to do um ifthey hit some point where
they're they're bored or theyjust they want challenges, you
know, besides, you know, youknow, you know, living at home
(23:43):
and you know what could considerboring, I guess.
So um so yeah, I think hestruggled a little bit.
I don't think he'd mind metelling that that part of it.
But um I am not hit that pointyet, but again, I'm very early
in retirement.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
So well, what if you so so there's two major factors
I would say so far havecontributed to you enjoying it.
One is, of course, theperspective that you only really
get when you or loved one goesto a major health event.
The second is you werefinancially ready.
You've been preparing for thismoment, you have saved, you have
invested, and so those are twopretty pivotal things.
But is there anything else,Michael, that led you to this
(24:21):
moment where you feel like thisdoes feel like liberation, this
does feel wonderful because ofthe things I did on the other
side?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
No, I don't think so.
Um, again, you know, you know,financially, I I did everything
I I needed to do to get to whereI'm at.
Um and then just seeing thehealth challenges that my mother
and my aunt and my wife wentthrough, those were sort of the
the kick I needed, theperspective I needed to go ahead
(24:50):
and pull the trigger when I did.
Um but it's just it's justgreat.
Yeah, I don't I don't want to,you know, the people who are not
at that point yet, I don't meanto rub it in or anything, but it
I mean it really is just it'sjust a stress you know off your
shoulders, and now you can justlive life and um do what you
(25:12):
want to do.
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
So it's have there been any surprise?
It you know, not maybe notchallenges, maybe good things,
but have there been surprisesabout how great it's been or
about how free you feel?
I know it's I won't even sayit's a traditional retirement
yet.
Your daughter got married, yourdaughter's friend who's like a
daughter got so it's been a bitbusy, even despite that.
But any major surprises that andthe reason I ask is this is a
(25:36):
show where so often people thinkthat retirement's all about
getting the spreadsheet right,getting the numbers right,
getting the withdrawal strategyright, and they they reach the
limit of how far that can takethem, and they still don't feel
comfortable.
They still don't feel ready.
And it's because of that, whatthe heck is on the other side?
And maybe I don't have anyMichaels in my life to share
with me.
Uh, here's what's going well,here's what's hard, here's what
(25:58):
the adjustment's like, andthey're just craving that.
What do you do?
What's it like?
What was surprising?
Anything that you would share tothat person who's getting ready
but just not quite there andtaking the leap.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's again, it's just your comfort
level with um you know whatkinds where you're at
financially, what kinds ofexpenses you have.
Um, you know, the big obviouslythe the wild card is is health
care you know expenses, um,health insurance, you know,
right now there's you knowobviously the big uh dispute
about the Affordable Care Actand subsidies and all that.
(26:33):
So um, you know, supposedly ifthe subsidies are not approved,
then your health insurance costscould double, right?
Which is you know, if you're ifyou're not uh financially
prepared for that, that could bea big hit and affect your
retirement.
So um it's just you know decidewhat you can afford to spend
(26:54):
each month, stay within thatbudget.
So that gives you peace of mind,that gives you comfort that as
long as you're staying withinyour budget per month.
Um and you should be go youshould be good.
At least that's well that's howI'm doing it right now.
You know, I I have a certainamount I I spend each month and
I stay under that and I feelsecure.
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
How has your actual spending, granted it's only been
two months, but how has youractual spending compared to what
you thought it would be as youprepared for retirement?
SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
Yeah, actually it's been an expensive year, frankly,
because again, my my daughtergot married.
So I spent a lot of money there.
Um and also I had a suddenexpense come up where I had to
uh pay for a new roof.
Um so that was unexpected.
So in the same year that youretire, you have those huge
expenses come up.
Um so that was um, but it gotyou know, it is what it is.
(27:46):
And you know, when you projectout in the long run, um I feel
pretty pretty good about whereI'm at.
Um I do have a financial plannerwho who uh you know I help
discuss you know discuss thesethings with and he gives me
peace of mind as well.
Um you know I think as as y'allmentioned on your on your videos
before, tax planning is a bigpart of it, you know, trying to
(28:10):
figure that out.
Um person I'm pretty far awayfrom having to worry about RDs
and all that kind of stuff, butum it's something you at least
to talk about and think about inpreparation.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
But is there anything you learned about
yourself, either in these lasttwo months post-retirement or
even in the year leading up toit, knowing everything that went
on in that year?
Anything that you know now aboutyourself that you didn't know a
year and a half ago?
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
I think I'm still too early, man.
Um, you know, maybe um as timegoes by, I'll be more
self-reflective and and and seesomething.
But right now it's just enjoyingthe the the free time.
Um like I said, I'm sort ofcatching back up on some of the
I sort of got into some oldhabits, some bad habits, I
should say, of of not reading.
(28:58):
I used to be a voracious readerwhen I was younger, and and then
you know, obviously once I gotinto work and having kids and
and all that, and you know, Isort of went by the wayside.
So I've really enjoyed pickingthe books back up again and
reading and expanding my mind.
And um, you know, I just youknow I I may be retired, but I I
(29:19):
I'm not I'm not stoppinglearning.
You know, I still want to learnand I want to um educate myself.
So uh I really enjoy reading allyou know, a lot of these
plastics too, which um you knowmaybe I I haven't read them
since I was in high school orsomething, but um it's I'm
enjoying it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
You're enjoying the moment.
You don't need a ton ofreflection if you're enjoying it
and doing the things that uhthat you enjoy doing with the
people you enjoy doing themwith.
Michael, as as we wrap, soretirement so far is so good,
relatively short period of time.
But for that person that isconsidering an early retirement
but can't bring themselves to doit, can't pull themselves, can't
pull the trigger, what guidance?
(29:58):
I think we've kind of alreadycovered a But what final words
do you have for that person?
What final guidance do you havefor that person that is
struggling to make thatdecision?
Yeah, just do it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
Um again, if you're financially able, um, if you
have a job that that you're notenjoying or you've reached the
point to where you're just done,just go ahead and and pull the
trigger and and retire.
Um the sense of freedom that youfeel, especially after because
you know the first week is likeyou know, you're just you're
taking like a vacation or PTO orwhatever.
(30:31):
Um but once you get into thatsecond, third week, you you
really like, hey, I don't haveto go back to a job.
I'm I can do whatever I want todo.
And it it's just you know, it'sliberating, it really is.
And you feel like you know theworld is just wide open to
whatever you want to do.
Um and you know, I some youknow, some day I had one day
(30:54):
where I just sat home and watchand binged uh Reacher on Amazon,
which was great.
Uh, you know, I've never beenable to, you know, just sit
there and watch like two orthree episodes back to back and
binge watch something.
So I mean, not that I wouldsuggest that people sit home and
watch TV all day, but it was itwas it was fun just to do that
one day when you know I was ableto do it.
(31:15):
It was great.
So it's it's just it's wide opento do whatever you want to do,
whatever whatever you'reinterested in.
You know, whatever, whateverpushes you, um just you know,
you can do it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, well love it.
Thank you, Michael, for comingon.
Thank you for sharing aboutwhat's been really amazing.
Thank you for sharing about whatyour wife went through and how
that was, and uh that that'sjust reality and the perspective
that that brings as you preparefor retirement.
Best of luck for continuedsuccessful retirement, and thank
you for joining me on today'sshow where uh retirement
reality.
Yeah, it's good to meet you.
(31:48):
Good to meet you too.
Thanks, Michael.
But what are the things that you are looking
forward to doing now that youwere not able to do while you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
It is it's a wide open book, and that's the great
thing about retirement.
You can do what you want whenyou want to do it.
And everything slows down.
I mean, I'm not in a hurryanymore.
Uh, you know, used to, you know,with you know, your job and and
your responsibilities at homeand everything, you know, it
seems like you're always in ahurry to get things done so you
can get back home or get back towork.
Or, you know, if I want to, Ican take a leisurely hour and a
(00:28):
half, two-hour lunch somewhereif I want to.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Michael always wanted to retire early, but it
wasn't until his wife's majorscare with cancer that reframed
the way he thought about work inthe first place.
Tune in as Michael shares abouthis journey and his wife's
journey through her chemotreatment, how this perspective,
along with the death of otherloved ones, led him to retire
early because life is preciousand we're never promised
tomorrow.
(00:51):
My guest on today's episode ofRetirement Reality is Michael.
Michael, if you could choose oneword to describe your retirement
so far, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Liberation.
I'm uh I'm no I'm no longerchained to a desk for eight
hours a day.
Um, no longer under, you know, Iwork from home, so no longer
under house arrest all day long,you know, eight hours a day.
Um I can do what I want when Iwant.
Um suffering my wife tells meno.
(01:24):
But um uh it is, it's just it'sit's real liberation to be able
to do things that maybe I wasnot able to do before because I
was always you know working oreither thinking about work or
you know, the other the otherstressors that could come along
with work, and and that's nomore.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
Sounds like it's off to a good start.
How long have you been retiredfor?
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
Um probably seven weeks.
I uh I stopped laboring on LaborDay weekend.
I thought that was appropriateto uh to start to stop then.
Um so yeah, so I'm I'm stillnewly retired, I guess you could
say.
Um yeah, I'm still I think uhstill have not really reached a
point where I'm bored or um, youknow, looking for other things
(02:10):
to do.
Uh, but also I've also beensomewhat busy during my my uh
retirement so far.
My uh my daughter was gotmarried, so I had that wedding.
And then also her best friendthat sort of um we helped raise,
frankly.
She grew up in our in our housesomewhat, so uh she also got
married.
So those are rehearsal dinnersand weddings taking up some of
(02:30):
the weekends.
Um I'm on vacation this weekdown here at the at the beach
here in Dustin, Florida.
So uh it's uh it's all good.
Retirement so far.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
How long have you been retired for?
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
How long have I been retired for?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
About seven weeks.
So like I said, yeah, like Isaid, I decided to stop laboring
on Labor Day weekend.
That's right.
Had a big uh barbecue and andsort of a retirement party with
a bunch of friends.
Yeah, you know, I'm alsosomewhat lucky.
I have a couple of friends whoare also retired that are about
my same age.
I'm 57.
Um, one of them's six, the otherone's 59.
(03:10):
So I immediately have a have afriend direct to go do things
with, you know, when I when Iwant to.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
So you retired fairly young.
What I it doesn't sound like youloved work.
It sounds like it was somethingthat you were excited to get
away from.
What prompted the decision toretire at 57?
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Frank, I always prepared to retire early.
Um, you know, when I firststarted working in the early
90s, um, there was a couplebooks that really had a an
effect on me.
You know, one of them was thethe Covey book, you know, Seven
Habits.
So begin with the end in mind,you know, is one of the habits.
And the other one wasMillionaire Next Door.
(03:47):
And, you know, both of those,you know, me and Next Door
talked about uh spend less thanyou make, so always save.
And in conjunction with that,um, my first employer, we they,
you know, they talked, theytalked to us about a 401k and
investments and growing thoseinvestments, compound interest
and and all that stuff.
Um, and so they had, I think itwas Vanguard actually, had a guy
(04:10):
from Vanguard come in and do anactual in-person presentation.
This is the four Zim calls and sand the thing.
So um that really left a lastingimpression on me.
So early on, I was in you knowinvesting quite a bit in our
401k, but also I was I starteddoing drips, um, dividend
reinvestment plans, um, whichlater became a brokerage
(04:33):
account.
So those things sort of set meoff early in in my career to
where I ended up doing prettywell.
Um now to answer the other partof your question, you know, what
was the motivation to retirewhen I did, besides you know,
being prepared financially, umit was, you know, my wife went
(04:54):
through cancer last year.
Um so she's she's in remissionnow, so that's you know, thank
thank the Lord for that.
But uh she had chemo for aboutsix months, seven months.
And so sitting in that chemoroom, which is you know, it's
like a big room with you know10, 20 chairs where people are
getting IV drips, you know, allkinds of different cancers, all
(05:18):
kinds, you know, all kinds ofseverity levels, some of them
terminal, um, all ages ofpeople.
So you see teenagers, you know,30-year-olds, 40-year-olds, you
know, old people, and it reallygives you a perspective on how
short life can be.
Um you really get to see thatwhile you have your health, you
(05:40):
should take advantage of that.
Um your health really is wealth.
And um, you know, while you havethe youth in your senior years,
you really need to takeadvantage of that before you're
not able to do things.
Or maybe you get that cancerdiagnosis, maybe you get, you
know, you break a hip or or youknow something like that where
you don't have your mobilityanymore.
(06:02):
Um so to me that was thatresonated with me quite a bit.
Um so that you know, those aresome of the things that sort of
went into my decision to goahead and and retire.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
I'm I'm glad you say that, Michael.
And and and and thank God yourwife is better now and she's in
remission, but there is thissense of not just, oh, we'll
live the traditional 80, 90years, but there's this sense
that all those years are createdequal.
And and one of the things I tryto preach so much in these
videos is you not all thoseyears are created equal.
You're 57 today.
(06:34):
The things you can do today aregonna be very different than the
things you can do at 77 or 87.
So even if you knew you had 30years of life left, the next
five are gonna be the best byfar on average than are the
latter 25 in a society scale.
And by the way, the earlier youdo retire and the earlier you
can start prioritizing yourhealth, the more of those good
(06:57):
years you're gonna have becauseyou can extend some of that
health span.
I'm curious, are you doinganything different now, just
even with life?
You your wife went through thatvery scary time, she's better
now, she's in remission now.
Are there things you've donebecause of that, outside of
retiring, of course, because ofthat fresh perspective?
SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Yeah, I mean, I've I've really started focusing on
my health.
Um, you know, I used to do like,you know, this uh tough murders
and savage races and all that,but the last couple of years I
sort of got out of shape becauseof what my wife was going
through.
And uh the year before that, ummy mother and and my aunt went
through some severe healthcrises.
(07:35):
They both passed away.
So taking care of my mother theyear before, and then this past
year, like I said, my wife umreally got out of shape.
So uh so I've been trying, Imean, where can I get in in
shape?
A buddy of mine, you know, heand I have been doing some of
the uh uh sections of theAppalachian Trail, which, you
know, that's a lot of elevation.
That's that'll definitely getyou in shape.
(07:55):
But uh also just you know,trying to get 10,000 steps a
day, just do you know anything Ican to improve my health.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
When you were still working, so you've been retired
for about two months now.
Were you able to prioritizehealth like you are now when you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Not you know, I was able I still would go to the gym
and and work out and that kindof thing.
But now it really has become afocus.
Um, because you know, like Isaid before, um you see, you
know, if you're not healthy,you're not able to do things.
Um my wife and I actually welive in Atlanta, Georgia.
So we went to when once she wasfinished with chemo as a
(08:33):
celebration, we did a trip thatshe always wanted to do.
We went to Napa.
So we did Napa in San Franciscoand all that, and um, which she
loved.
And unfortunately, she was notable to, you know, like we did
the jaw mere woods, hiking thewoods there and that park and
all that.
And unfortunately, she was nothealthy enough to be able to do
that as yet.
So she was just finishing upchemo.
(08:54):
But um, so again, our goal is tois to both of us be healthy
enough to where we can makethese trips and see things that
we've always you know read aboutor heard about, but now we have
an opportunity to actually goand do those things.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that you're doingthat.
Um, I want to go back to yourretirement for a second.
So you retired at 57.
A big part, maybe the full partof the impetus for that was wife
got a cancer diagnosis betternow, but that puts things into
perspective.
When did you feel like you werein a financial position to be
able to retire?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Um, actually, it's probably um the year before
that.
Um, like I I'd always, again,like I mentioned earlier, I
always had set goals early on.
And uh my I hit that financialgoal the year before that.
But uh ironically, my employeractually um you know, they
offered an HRA plan, and uh theywere phasing that out in January
(09:50):
of 2026.
So that was just said I wouldhave the money that was built up
in the HRA plan, which it wasn'ta huge amount, but it was you
know, it was it was not a smallamount either.
And that was that was just gonnago away.
That money would disappear.
So that was just added incentiveto go ahead and pull the
trigger, um, which I did.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
Yeah.
As you were preparing to makethat decision, to pull that
trigger, what was going throughyour mind?
I know that you were lookingforward to retirement, it sounds
like, but what fears, whatconcerns, what anxiety, what was
keeping you up at night as youwere getting ready to make that
decision?
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Part of it, you know, obviously, um I I led a
team of people, and you know,look I had a little bit of guilt
actually um leaving that teambecause I some of them I'd I
managed for you know over adecade.
And uh and I took you know, fora while there I took a lot of
satisfaction in training anddeveloping my people, seeing
(10:48):
them um, you know, you know, goup in their careers, go up the
ladder.
And uh so I I I felt a littleguilt, you know, of of leaving
those people.
But on the other hand, I thinkmost people, I've I've seen some
of these other interviews, and Iand I tend to agree that your
company is not gonna miss you.
(11:09):
You you you know, maybe for afew days until they find
somebody else to fill that spot,but um it's your company is you
you'll be forgotten a lot soonerthan you think you'll be
forgotten.
You're not you're not asindispensable as as you may
think.
And uh yeah, so um, so yeah,that and you know, and again, I
(11:30):
hit my financial goal and I wasjust ready to to start living
life, man.
I mean it's um it's you knowtechnically it's the worst
financial decision I could haveever made, you know, because you
know I I could have had another10 years of income, you know,
assuming you know you make acertain amount, that's gonna be
a million dollars more, right?
(11:51):
But um I was just I was justready.
And I haven't regretted it abit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
I I like what you just said because one of the
things that it there is thatchallenge of if you're running a
financial projection, there iszero times out of a hundred that
you're ever gonna run afinancial projection and
retiring early comes out as abetter financial decision.
That's always less income,that's always fewer
contributions to your 401k,that's always less money paid
(12:18):
into Social Security, that'salways more years of you needing
to fund your own healthcareexpenses, although in your case
you have the HRA that I knowwould help with some of that.
But I think that what you theconclusion you are you arrived
at is yes, money matters, butthere's these different almost
scorecards that we need to lookat is one is how am I doing with
my financial health?
But also you're already talkingabout my physical health, my
(12:41):
relational health, my ability tospend time with my wife, with my
donor, with the people thatmatter.
And the financial thing is sotangible, it's so in your face,
it's so easy to track that andto run projections that quantify
that.
The others are so much moredifficult to quantify until
they're gone.
And you have that very scaryexperience of being on the verge
(13:01):
of what happens if somethinghappens to my wife, then you
feel the pain.
But if you're not activelythinking that way of these years
are limited, these years areprecious, it's very easy to get
caught up in the one singletangible scorecard element,
which is the financial side ofthings and miss out on the rest.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and again, it's up toeverybody's comfort level.
I mean, you know, it's it'sreally not how much you have,
it's how much you have to spend,right?
I mean, if you if you haveexpenses that are still
basically keeping you havehaving to work, then that's
understandable.
But if if you're financiallyable to do it, just do it, man.
(13:40):
Because I'm I again, it's beengreat.
I mean, I'm I'm again, I'mpretty new into it, but uh I
just I've really enjoyed it sofar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
Well, you so you retired at 57.
You said about a year prior tothat, is that when you actually
felt like, yeah, I'm financiallyable to do it.
Was it was it wife's health thatdelayed it a year?
Was it the fear of telling yourteam or letting your team down,
at least in your own mind, thatyou're gonna not be there
anymore?
What would what what happenedover the course of that year
that finally prodded you to moveforward?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
I think you just you touched on both of them.
It was um my wife's health, sohealth insurance.
Um and then honestly, I just youknow, again, I wasn't really
burned out on work as yet.
I was getting there, but I wasnot yet.
Um so but the health insurancefor my wife, but obviously you
don't want to go through achange during the middle of
cancer treatments and chemo andall that.
(14:32):
Um, you don't want to risk anykind of issues with health
insurance.
Um, you know, as a you knowAmerica's health insurance uh is
it's a it's it's it's uhdifficult thing to talk about
because it's not as as uh it hasa lot of challenges, I'll put it
that way.
So it's expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
What are you so you're seven weeks in, eight
weeks in?
I know that granted there'smaybe still the honeymoon phase
of retirement, but what are thethings that you are looking
forward to doing now that youwere not able to do while you
were still working?
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
It's just it's it's a wide open book, man.
It's a wide open menu.
Um I have a friend of mine,she's into scuba diving, so
she's been trying to talk meinto I scuba, I used to scuba
dive back in in college, and uhso she's asking me to get
recertified and go to scubadiving trips with her.
I have some friends that are biginto pickleball, so they're
trying to recruit me to dopickleball.
(15:29):
Um I think I mentioned I have abuddy who's he's wanting to do
the uh Appalachian Trail.
Um I'm not gonna do the throughhikes.
I'm not gonna, you know, I thinkI've gotten a little too soft to
be in a tent and and uh norestrooms and that kind of
thing.
But um I'm fine with the sectionhikes, and we've already done a
couple sections of of theAppalachian Trail here in
Georgia.
(15:49):
But uh it's just it is it's awide open book, and that's the
great thing about retirement.
You you can do what you wantwhen you want to do it.
Um you know, and everythingslows down.
Um I'm not in a hurry anymore.
Uh, you know, used to, you know,with you know, your job and and
your responsibilities at homeand everything, you know, every
you know, it seems like you'realways in a hurry to get things
(16:10):
done so you can get back home orget back to work.
Or, you know, if I want to, Ican take a leisurely hour and a
half, two-hour lunch somewhereif I want to.
Um I don't have to, you know,when I'm at the gym, I'm not
trying to hurry and get througha workout anymore.
It's just it's no deadlines, youknow, it's it's just
everything's more relaxed.
(16:31):
There's no there's no morepressure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
That's actually I think maybe one of the things
that surprises people most isthey don't fully appreciate how
much of in a hurry they alwayswere until they're retired and
they're not in a hurry.
What was there a moment where ithit you, Michael, that oh, I can
I can take my time here?
Although you know you have thatfeeling of I gotta get
(16:55):
somewhere, I gotta getsomewhere, I gotta get home.
And you say, No, I don't.
I I don't have to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Well, I mean, the first thing was not having to
get up at 6 a.m.
anymore.
So uh when I did go into anoffice, I had to get up at 6
a.m.
because I had a 45-minutecommute.
Um you know, now you know,during after COVID, I was able
to work from home.
My my job moved to where I wasjust working from home.
So then I was getting up at 630, 6 45.
(17:22):
But now um, you know, I I sleepin until like 8, 8:30 if I want
to.
Um so it's right there is is youknow, I'm getting more sleep.
Uh there's again less stress.
And then, you know, I guess Iget up, you know, say I get up
at 8 30, I'll fix a cup ofcoffee, you know, read the news,
(17:44):
maybe watch you on YouTube, whoknows?
But uh, you know, and it'ssometimes, you know, after I
finish my coffee, a lot of timesI'll go on, you know, try to get
my 10,000 steps in, so I'll I'llgo on a long walk and listen to
YouTube videos or otherpodcasts, or and you know, or
I've actually started readingbooks again.
You know, for a long time there,I let myself be distractive of
work and or social media orwhatever.
(18:06):
And you know, I fell out of thepractice of reading books.
And and I've already read two orthree you know classics that I
always wanted to read.
Um, and I you know, I plan oncontinuing that.
So it's again, it's just thepossibilities are are are wide
open.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah.
I I know you've already comparedkind of health now versus health
in your working years.
If you're able to prioritizethat again, you're able to do
some of these hikes, you're ableto spend more time at the gym.
What about just mental health orstress levels or overall
feelings of calm and peace andhappiness?
How does that compare todayversus three months ago when you
(18:42):
were still leading up toretirement?
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yeah, it's it's again, it's it's it's the load
off your shoulders that youdon't have those work
responsibilities anymore.
And uh it's actually helped thatuh like I mentioned earlier, I
had a couple of friends who arealso already retired.
And uh so we meet up every nowand then and just you know
discuss because we're all sortof going through the same thing.
They retired before I did.
They're like I said, one ofthem's 60, otherwise 59.
(19:07):
And uh so they you know, they'vetalked about some of the things
that you and Ari's um YouTubeprogram that touches on is you
know, the boredom, um, you know,maybe feeling like you know
you're not needed anymore, thatkind of thing.
I haven't felt any of that, butbut uh you know, I think those
are maybe common things thatretirees maybe experience at
(19:28):
some point or another,especially if they had a high
stress job, a high pressure job,or where they manage people
perhaps, and all of a sudden ummaybe they feel like you know
they've turned into a nobody orsomething like that.
I I don't know.
I'm not a psychologist, what anymeans.
But um I haven't had any ofthat.
I I've had, you know, justagain, like I said, the feel of
(19:50):
liberation, the feel of freedom.
And uh, you know, if I wantresponsibilities, I can take on
responsibilities.
But at this point, I'm just I'mjust enjoying it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Do you think you would have retired when you did
had your wife not gone throughher cancer diagnosis and
treatment?
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think the HRA thing was wasalso a helpful determining
factor, but I maybe wouldn'thave had the perspective that I
had after seeing what what shewent through and also seeing
what those other people wentthrough in the chemo ring.
Um because it really it's it'sit's it's emotional seeing,
(20:27):
especially young people who aremaybe are terminal, but they're
just holding on to the hope totake the chemo and hopefully
maybe it'll work or prolongtheir life a little bit.
Um it's you know, it's justheartbreaking.
And and then you like Imentioned earlier, you really do
see how important your health isand take advantage of of that
(20:49):
health while you can.
Because you never know whensomething's gonna happen.
Um I didn't mean for thisepisode to be a cancer episode,
but I also have a neighbor twodoors down um who who has cancer
and and he he just ended hischemo because it's not
effective.
And it's just again, it'sheartbreaking.
And I I I I don't want to keepon repeating myself, but while
(21:12):
you have your health, do thethings that you want to do.
And and you know, obviously ajob can can limit your
opportunities to do those thingssometimes.
So if you're financially able todo it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
I hope that's the message people receive of this
this is not retirement advice.
There retirement's kind of insome weird philosophical way,
this made-up construct.
This is just life.
This is life advice of how doyou do the things you should be
doing to prioritize the thingsthat matter, which is your
health, which is yourrelationships, which is your
(21:48):
faith, which is your hobbies,which is how do you, regardless
of if you're 20 years old or 70years old or anywhere in
between, how do you do thingsthat matter today?
There just happens to be thisconception that, oh, there's
pre-retirement years andpost-retirement years.
And at the cusp of that is whenyou need to start thinking about
this.
But the reality is it shouldalways be a thought, regardless
(22:08):
of where you are.
And if your work is meaningfuland fun and you love it and you
love the people there andthere's purpose, work as long as
you can, as long as it's nothindering your ability to do
other things.
But the second that the thingsthat matter start to be
jeopardized by what you're doingnine to five, five days a week,
what you're saying is is is sotrue of you've got to step away
(22:30):
once you're financially readybecause you're not gonna get a
spouse back if somethinghappens.
You're not gonna get your ownhealth back if something
happens.
You're not gonna get anythingback once it's once it's passed.
Um I know your retirement so farhas been nothing but good
things, it sounds like it's beenliberation to use your word.
Have you do you know people whohave struggled in their
(22:52):
retirement with boredom, withloneliness, with lack of
structure, with lack of purpose,or does everyone you speak with
have positive things to say?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
No, one of my friends, um, I think he has
struggled with it a little bit.
Um he he was an attorney and anduh I think he was you know, I
think he really thrived ontrials and the build up the
trials and and all that.
So I think you know, he he'sbeen looking into maybe doing
something else like as apart-time gig, maybe even
(23:21):
teaching that kind of thing.
Which, you know, who knows?
I may try to do something likethat someday.
But um again, you know, I thinksome people probably do look for
um something else to do um ifthey hit some point where
they're they're bored or theyjust they want challenges, you
know, besides, you know, youknow, you know, living at home
(23:43):
and you know what could considerboring, I guess.
So um so yeah, I think hestruggled a little bit.
I don't think he'd mind metelling that that part of it.
But um I am not hit that pointyet, but again, I'm very early
in retirement.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
So well, what if you so so there's two major factors
I would say so far havecontributed to you enjoying it.
One is, of course, theperspective that you only really
get when you or loved one goesto a major health event.
The second is you werefinancially ready.
You've been preparing for thismoment, you have saved, you have
invested, and so those are twopretty pivotal things.
But is there anything else,Michael, that led you to this
(24:21):
moment where you feel like thisdoes feel like liberation, this
does feel wonderful because ofthe things I did on the other
side?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
No, I don't think so.
Um, again, you know, you know,financially, I I did everything
I I needed to do to get to whereI'm at.
Um and then just seeing thehealth challenges that my mother
and my aunt and my wife wentthrough, those were sort of the
the kick I needed, theperspective I needed to go ahead
(24:50):
and pull the trigger when I did.
Um but it's just it's justgreat.
Yeah, I don't I don't want to,you know, the people who are not
at that point yet, I don't meanto rub it in or anything, but it
I mean it really is just it'sjust a stress you know off your
shoulders, and now you can justlive life and um do what you
(25:12):
want to do.
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
So it's have there been any surprise?
It you know, not maybe notchallenges, maybe good things,
but have there been surprisesabout how great it's been or
about how free you feel?
I know it's I won't even sayit's a traditional retirement
yet.
Your daughter got married, yourdaughter's friend who's like a
daughter got so it's been a bitbusy, even despite that.
But any major surprises that andthe reason I ask is this is a
(25:36):
show where so often people thinkthat retirement's all about
getting the spreadsheet right,getting the numbers right,
getting the withdrawal strategyright, and they they reach the
limit of how far that can takethem, and they still don't feel
comfortable.
They still don't feel ready.
And it's because of that, whatthe heck is on the other side?
And maybe I don't have anyMichaels in my life to share
with me.
Uh, here's what's going well,here's what's hard, here's what
(25:58):
the adjustment's like, andthey're just craving that.
What do you do?
What's it like?
What was surprising?
Anything that you would share tothat person who's getting ready
but just not quite there andtaking the leap.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's again, it's just your comfort
level with um you know whatkinds where you're at
financially, what kinds ofexpenses you have.
Um, you know, the big obviouslythe the wild card is is health
care you know expenses, um,health insurance, you know,
right now there's you knowobviously the big uh dispute
about the Affordable Care Actand subsidies and all that.
(26:33):
So um, you know, supposedly ifthe subsidies are not approved,
then your health insurance costscould double, right?
Which is you know, if you're ifyou're not uh financially
prepared for that, that could bea big hit and affect your
retirement.
So um it's just you know decidewhat you can afford to spend
(26:54):
each month, stay within thatbudget.
So that gives you peace of mind,that gives you comfort that as
long as you're staying withinyour budget per month.
Um and you should be go youshould be good.
At least that's well that's howI'm doing it right now.
You know, I I have a certainamount I I spend each month and
I stay under that and I feelsecure.
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
How has your actual spending, granted it's only been
two months, but how has youractual spending compared to what
you thought it would be as youprepared for retirement?
SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
Yeah, actually it's been an expensive year, frankly,
because again, my my daughtergot married.
So I spent a lot of money there.
Um and also I had a suddenexpense come up where I had to
uh pay for a new roof.
Um so that was unexpected.
So in the same year that youretire, you have those huge
expenses come up.
Um so that was um, but it gotyou know, it is what it is.
(27:46):
And you know, when you projectout in the long run, um I feel
pretty pretty good about whereI'm at.
Um I do have a financial plannerwho who uh you know I help
discuss you know discuss thesethings with and he gives me
peace of mind as well.
Um you know I think as as y'allmentioned on your on your videos
before, tax planning is a bigpart of it, you know, trying to
(28:10):
figure that out.
Um person I'm pretty far awayfrom having to worry about RDs
and all that kind of stuff, butum it's something you at least
to talk about and think about inpreparation.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
But is there anything you learned about
yourself, either in these lasttwo months post-retirement or
even in the year leading up toit, knowing everything that went
on in that year?
Anything that you know now aboutyourself that you didn't know a
year and a half ago?
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
I think I'm still too early, man.
Um, you know, maybe um as timegoes by, I'll be more
self-reflective and and and seesomething.
But right now it's just enjoyingthe the the free time.
Um like I said, I'm sort ofcatching back up on some of the
I sort of got into some oldhabits, some bad habits, I
should say, of of not reading.
(28:58):
I used to be a voracious readerwhen I was younger, and and then
you know, obviously once I gotinto work and having kids and
and all that, and you know, Isort of went by the wayside.
So I've really enjoyed pickingthe books back up again and
reading and expanding my mind.
And um, you know, I just youknow I I may be retired, but I I
(29:19):
I'm not I'm not stoppinglearning.
You know, I still want to learnand I want to um educate myself.
So uh I really enjoy reading allyou know, a lot of these
plastics too, which um you knowmaybe I I haven't read them
since I was in high school orsomething, but um it's I'm
enjoying it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
You're enjoying the moment.
You don't need a ton ofreflection if you're enjoying it
and doing the things that uhthat you enjoy doing with the
people you enjoy doing themwith.
Michael, as as we wrap, soretirement so far is so good,
relatively short period of time.
But for that person that isconsidering an early retirement
but can't bring themselves to doit, can't pull themselves, can't
pull the trigger, what guidance?
(29:58):
I think we've kind of alreadycovered a But what final words
do you have for that person?
What final guidance do you havefor that person that is
struggling to make thatdecision?
Yeah, just do it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
Um again, if you're financially able, um, if you
have a job that that you're notenjoying or you've reached the
point to where you're just done,just go ahead and and pull the
trigger and and retire.
Um the sense of freedom that youfeel, especially after because
you know the first week is likeyou know, you're just you're
taking like a vacation or PTO orwhatever.
(30:31):
Um but once you get into thatsecond, third week, you you
really like, hey, I don't haveto go back to a job.
I'm I can do whatever I want todo.
And it it's just you know, it'sliberating, it really is.
And you feel like you know theworld is just wide open to
whatever you want to do.
Um and you know, I some youknow, some day I had one day
(30:54):
where I just sat home and watchand binged uh Reacher on Amazon,
which was great.
Uh, you know, I've never beenable to, you know, just sit
there and watch like two orthree episodes back to back and
binge watch something.
So I mean, not that I wouldsuggest that people sit home and
watch TV all day, but it was itwas it was fun just to do that
one day when you know I was ableto do it.
(31:15):
It was great.
So it's it's just it's wide opento do whatever you want to do,
whatever whatever you'reinterested in.
You know, whatever, whateverpushes you, um just you know,
you can do it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, well love it.
Thank you, Michael, for comingon.
Thank you for sharing aboutwhat's been really amazing.
Thank you for sharing about whatyour wife went through and how
that was, and uh that that'sjust reality and the perspective
that that brings as you preparefor retirement.
Best of luck for continuedsuccessful retirement, and thank
you for joining me on today'sshow where uh retirement
reality.
Yeah, it's good to meet you.
(31:48):
Good to meet you too.
Thanks, Michael.
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