The enigmatic history of Reiki unfolds through the meticulous research of scholar and practitioner Dr. Justin B. Stein in this illuminating conversation. As a Japanese religion specialist and author of "Alternate Currents: Reiki Circulation in the 20th Century North Pacific," Dr. Stein brings unprecedented clarity to the origins of this healing practice that has captivated millions worldwide.
Far from being purely Japanese, Reiki emerged during a period of profound cultural exchange. Dr. Stein reveals how Mikao Usui created a spiritual technology that ingeniously bridged Eastern and Western healing philosophies at a pivotal historical moment. Recently discovered documents show that Usui actually studied psychology in America and worked at the San Francisco Custom House around 1898—facts that dramatically reshape our understanding of Reiki's development as a transnational practice.
The conversation explores fascinating perspectives on Hawayo Takata's crucial role in transforming Reiki from a Japanese healing art into a global phenomenon. Dr. Stein provides nuanced insights into her famous $10,000 master training fee (equivalent to nearly $100,000 today), explaining how it reflected Japanese values of reciprocity while incorporating flexibility for sincere students of limited means. These cultural adaptations helped make Reiki both accessible to Westerners and true to its Japanese essence.
For practitioners and curious newcomers alike, Dr. Stein recommends essential reading materials that deepen understanding, including recently translated Japanese texts from the 1930s that offer rare glimpses into early Reiki practices. His scholarly yet approachable perspective helps distinguish between historically accurate information and the well-meaning but sometimes misleading narratives that have developed through decades of oral transmission.
As Reiki continues its journey into mainstream awareness, Dr. Stein emphasizes the importance of balancing respect for tradition with openness to authentic evolution. Whether you're a seasoned Reiki master or simply curious about energy healing, this conversation offers profound insights into how a Japanese spiritual practice became a global healing movement that continues to transform lives a century after its creation.
Justin B. Stein is a scholar of Japanese religion and spirituality in transnational perspective. He is currently chair of the Asian Studies Program at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in British Columbia, Canada. He is the author of Alternate Currents: Reiki's Circulation in the Twentieth-Century North Pacific (University of Hawaii Press, 2023), which uses the life and work of Hawayo Takata as a frame through which to look at how Reiki developed and evolved in Japan, Hawaii, and North America between the 1920s and 1980s. He has also written several peer-reviewed articles and book chapters on Reiki, Buddhism, and Aikido, and is the co-editor of The Routledge Handbook of Religion, Medicine, and Health (Routledge, 2022). He has been a Reiki practitioner since 2001 and has studied in Takata lineages as well as Japanese lineages. In addition to Reiki, he loves the outdoors, music, cycling, and skiing.
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Ready Set Reiki, a podcast about Reiki and
all energy work, from thecurious beginner to the seasoned
master teacher, welcoming allsystems, all lineages and all
levels.
Reiki is a journey and not adestination, and on this Ready
Set Reiki journey, I refer tomyself as a guide rather than a
host, as I, too, am traveling,helping, supporting others and
(00:43):
learning on this Reiki journeyas well.
And with that said, I am yourguide, tracy C Wright.
And this is Ready Set Reiki.
Hello, beautiful friends,welcome Ready Set Reiki.
I'm Tracy C Wright.
Well, what an amazing episodetoday is going to be.
Not only do we have an amazingguest, I have one of my favorite
people that has her own amazingpodcast as well, so let me
(01:08):
introduce my wonderful,beautiful, amazing and talented
friend, rose Rose.
You already sent Reikilisteners all about you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, tracy, you're too kind.
You know I adore you and I'myour biggest fan, so thank you
for having me as your co-guide.
I love being on here with youand our Reiki universe.
So my name is Rose Whippage andI'm the host of Chat Off the
Mat.
I'm a Reiki master, I'm a yogateacher, qigong teacher as well,
and I'm author of an upcomingbook.
I don't want to talk too muchabout it, but I'm going to be on
Tracy's podcast and we'll talkall about that at another time,
(01:39):
so I'm just happy to be here.
Thank you, tracy.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I cannot wait for October to roll around to get
that book, so looking forward toit.
So the reason why we're heretoday on this journey and this
is what the great thing abouthaving a podcast is I have
people often ask you know, whyare you doing this if you're not
making thousands and millionsof dollars?
And it's just to meet wonderfuland amazing people like Rose
and our next guest.
(02:02):
Well, our next guest amazingPhD.
He is a scholar author.
He is a scholar of Japanesereligion and spiritual in
transnational perspective Wow.
He is currently chair of theAsian Studies Program in
Kowaland, sao Paulo TechnicalUniversity Wow, that's a tongue
(02:23):
twister.
In British Columbia, canada, heis the author of the Alternate
Currents Reiki Circulation inthe 20th Century North Pacific
University of Hawaii, press 2023, which uses the life and work
of Madame Takada as a framethrough which to look at how
Reiki developed and involved inJapan, hawaii and North America,
(02:44):
and this is a time framebetween 1920s and 1980s.
He's also written severalpeer-reviewed articles, book
chapters on Reiki, buddhism andco-editor in this handbook of
Religion, medicine and Health.
Now he has been a Reikipractitioner since 2001.
He has studied Madame Takada'slineage.
Practitioner since 2001.
(03:07):
He has studied Madame Takada'slineage, as well as other
Japanese lineages.
In addition, he loves outdoormusic, cycling and skiing.
I mean, what an amazing personhere.
So let's give a warm Ready SetReiki.
Welcome to Justin B Stein.
Justin, welcome to Ready SetReiki.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Thanks so much, Tracy .
What a nice intro.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Wonderful, I mean.
So much information, so muchknowledge.
I cannot wait to start thisjourney, so let's begin.
I gave our listeners a littlebit of a taste about you.
Might have pronounced a wordwrong here or there, so let's
hear it from you.
You're a beautiful voice here.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, I think you hit most of the main points.
I maybe could say I was bornand raised in New York, but now
I am a permanent resident ofCanada where I've been based for
about 15 years now, mostrecently two years in Kyoto on a
(04:04):
postdoctoral fellowship atBukyo University.
And, yeah, I first found Reiki.
Actually, my first initiationswere in India when I was in my
early 20s, and so I've been apractitioner now for almost 25
years and it's a reallywonderful part of my life.
And, yeah, the way that I kindof dove into being an academic
(04:29):
researcher of Reiki history, youknow, definitely changed my
whole life, introduced me towonderful people like you two
and as, yeah, it's having boththe kind of the practice side of
things and also the scholarshipside of things, it definitely
affects me every single day.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So beautiful.
Now, in my journey of life,what sparked me to be an
elementary school teacher is Ididn't have a very nice
kindergarten teacher.
She was actually quite mean andI remember, at five years old,
thinking I'm going to grow upand be a teacher so that kids
will love being in my classroomand love coming to school.
But what inspired you to studyJapanese, regional and
(05:09):
spirituality in a transnationalperspective?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, well, that was a long path, I gotta say.
I think when I was a teenager,I got interested in Buddhism and
meditation.
I had been introduced tomeditation and yoga by my mom,
who is a longtime TMpractitioner, and I was always
(05:33):
kind of interested in I don'tknow what you might call the
paranormal world.
You know things beyond, youknow what we normally see with
our two eyes and kind ofspiritual ways of being.
And then I, when I was anundergraduate, I wanted to do a
Buddhist studies program inIndia and my dad actually kind
(05:54):
of pushed me towards Japan aslike a safer place to be.
You know, a young maninterested in spiritual paths.
And yeah, when I was in Japan, Ihad been initiated into a
different type of energy healingbefore my trip, and so I was
doing these chakra meditationsand these kind of fingertip, you
(06:18):
know, applications of prana forspiritual healing, and I was
having some very profoundexperiences.
And then, while I was in Japan,I learned, oh, there's actually
a lot of Japanese modalitiesthat also engage in similar
types of practice, and so I gotinterested in that and I wrote a
grant to go back to Asia andlearn more about different forms
(06:43):
of energy healing and I endedup, yeah, becoming a school
teacher as well for a few yearsand then went back to grad
school and was like, okay, likelet's look at energy healing.
And the history of Reiki turnedout to be something that no one
had really written much aboutfrom a scholarly perspective.
And the more I studied aboutthe history of Reiki, it was
(07:05):
clear that you know, even thoughwe talk about it as like a
Japanese healing art, it's notlike purely Japanese right.
It was developed in the modernperiod when Japan was very much
enmeshed in what I call atransnational currents, and so
Reiki itself, you know, kindkind of, I think, needs to be
studied from this kind oftransnational Japanese
(07:26):
perspective.
So I hope that was my bestnutshell response to a big
question very good.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I had seen some of your articles over the years and
I was listening to a lecture byWilliam Rand last year and
that's when your name came up.
He spoke about it and so myears perked up.
I'm like, hmm, and we'll talk alittle bit later about
something that you announced,but we go where it first began.
When did Reiki come into yourlife?
(07:56):
Did Reiki find you or did youfind Reiki?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, well, I knew, I mean, I guess, as I started
doing research on differenttypes of energy healing,
certainly Reiki.
This was in around 2000,.
Maybe the name Reiki wasprominent at that time, as it
continues to be today, and so Iknew it was like a well-known,
(08:23):
widespread form of hands-onenergy healing.
And then, yeah, there had beensome kind of funny
synchronicities, I guess, as Iwas starting my research when I
was in London, the UK, with thisReiki lady there and I knew it
(08:44):
was something that I needed toand I was doing like participant
observation research, so I wasgetting initiated in and
studying various forms ofhealing, including Kundalini
stuff, qigong stuff and um Reikiand other um, japanese, uh
modalities, and so, yeah, I knewit was something that I wanted
to study.
(09:04):
So I guess, yeah, did it findme or did I find it?
I think maybe it's two sides ofthe same coin on some level.
Right, it definitely appearedin my life as a young man and
has continued to be an importantpart of my life since then.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Beautiful and, as that important part of your life
.
What has surprised you aboutReiki in your research and
really in your own personal life?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think in my research, I think the
thing that was most surprisingto me was the degree to which
Usui Sensei I think wasinfluenced by as I mentioned
before, I think was influencedby, as I mentioned before, kind
of these transnationalinfluences, in addition to being
, I think, well steeped inJapanese spiritual and religious
(09:51):
healing traditions that youknow as people can read about in
my book or I've published someother things on this topic as
well that there were hands-onhealing practices in the US at
that time.
There was a lot of practicearound the power of the mind and
(10:11):
this is like late 19th, early20th century and that those
practices and those teachingswere translated into Japanese in
the early 20th century and werevery influential.
So, while Japanese people wereteaching century and were very
influential, so while Japanesepeople were teaching, you know
practices like Reiki, wherethere's, you know, esoteric
initiations that I think have aBuddhist influence, and ideas
(10:32):
about Qi, you know, purveyingthe universe like Qi, which also
have a very strong and ancient,you know, chinese influence,
that there were also ideas aboutthe mind and the power of the
mind, or ideas about, you know,the scientific, you know term
like energy starting to getpicked up at that time.
(10:53):
And so there's ways where Reiki, I think, really bridges Asian
and North American, you know,kind of so-called like Eastern
and Western mentalities, as wellas kind of ancient spiritual
technologies and ideas frommodern science and medicine and
ways that Reiki has changed kindof over the years, integrating
(11:14):
other paradigms as well.
I think getting a perspectiveon all of that through my
research was maybe I don't knowif it was surprising, but
definitely profound for me.
(11:36):
And I think, in terms of thepractice end, I think
recognizing that this is anevolving practice right, that
this is something where it's, Ithink it's important to connect
with the roots and I think it'simportant to know where it came
from.
And of course I'm a historianso I'm going to say that.
But I think also having trustin one's own connection with the
energy or the power and one'sintuition, and feeling that kind
(11:56):
of openness to being guided andthat kind of presence in the
practice, I think is also likeit's the other side of that coin
, maybe.
And so that there's, I think, alot of people out there who are
saying, oh, you know, thetraditional way is the only way
or the best way, whereas there'sa lot of other people who are
(12:20):
adding new things to thepractice from their own
experience, and I think that tobe able to draw that horizon
where we honor maybe both ofthose things, you know, as long
as they're done with integrity,I think, is something that I
think practice continues toteach me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, right, right.
I have found in my experience,when I have gone to trainings
alongside fellow students andeven some of my students, the
history is what catches them up.
They are excited, they're ready, they're ready for the energy,
they get that attunement orplacement, they're ready to go
out into the world.
And then, when it's time forthem to teach, they often have
(12:59):
difficulty remembering all ofthese things.
And you know, many people areable to go in person, online Now
they're able to watch videosand there's such a variety out
there in the world andoftentimes the history gets
overlooked.
When I began my first Reikitraining, the history was a
little blotchy, a little likenot complete, and then I found,
(13:23):
uh, the Healing Touch by WilliamLee Rand and here it was this
evidence-based, and I was likewhoa, here it is, and all the
pieces were coming together Inyour experience.
Why is history so important?
Why is the history of Reiki soimportant for us to know, to
pass on to our students?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, I think there's a few reasons, and so one of
them is, I think, that the ideathat this is an initiation
lineage, where we are practicinga particular form of practice,
as I said, while it continues toevolve and change, there's also
(14:04):
this idea that aspects of thepractice, important aspects of
the practice, have been passeddown, you know, from master to
student, going back to thefounder, usui Sensei, and that
we are part of that lineagemakes it so that I think
(14:43):
understanding some of thathistory is part of what the
practice is right and tellingstories about the lineage,
learning from the experiences ofthose who've come before us.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think that's an important aspect of Reiki
practice.
Yeah, I could say more, butmaybe let's just leave it.
Well, especially from thelineage you come from, from
Takata, you know I had connecteda few years ago with the Reiki
Alliance and there was thathistory.
You need to know that history.
It was so important becausethere's many people out there
that have the wrong information.
I was observing something on aFacebook page and a gentleman
posted this is my, my sensei'smanual and he had where azuri
(15:10):
sensei was beginning with thereiki energy and we know when he
was born, we know when he died.
And I said, hey, you might wantto like tell your teacher that,
like he has this date on here,this would have made made a Zui
five years old.
And he said, nope, my teacheris correct.
And it's just so interestingthe misinformation that's out
there.
(15:31):
And this person was arguing withme.
It's like there's a memorialstone, there's things out there.
Nope, this is the date and I'mgoing to go buy it.
So apparently in his world, inhis lineage, a Zui sensei was
doing this at five world.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
In his lineage, a zui sensei, was doing this at five.
Well, and that's, I think, alsothe other side of this kind of
openness to being guided andintuition is there are a lot of
people who have their own kindof channeled information that,
like, on the one hand, like Iwant to um honor their
experience, and that they, youknow, feel like they have these
particular insights andconnections, um, but then when
(16:07):
you try to make it into and thiscontradicts, like all of the
historical evidence that we have, like that's where, you know,
it kind of becomes tricky, um,because there's all these
different kind of stories andnarratives about where Reiki
comes from.
And, yeah, I think, in this erawhere we actually have, as you
(16:30):
mentioned, kind of more accessto the, you know, historical
evidence of the life of Usui inJapan, that there are texts that
are being translated and madeavailable more widely, it's a
really different scene than itwas 30 years ago, where there
(16:51):
was a lot of circumspect andconflicting stories and we
didn't really know how can youfigure out which one is correct
Like these days, the evidence isreally a lot more accessible is
correct.
Like now, these days, theevidence is really a lot more
accessible.
So you know.
At the same time, you knowpeople might have their own
(17:13):
beliefs and insights and youknow there's not a lot we can do
for some folks to convince themotherwise.
And it is, you know, it hasbeen this game of telephone and
where little bits get addedalong the way and then it's like
, yeah, where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh, right Right.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
But when I was doing some of my research you know
Phyllis Furumoto when I firstthe first time I connected with
Phyllis Furumoto, takata'sgranddaughter and lineage bearer
for the Usui Shiki Dioho, shetold me she's like, listen, the
kinds of historical researchquestions you have are not
interesting to me at all, like Idon't care about any of that
stuff.
But I know there are a lot ofother people in the Reiki world
(17:56):
who really care about that verydeeply and so I want to support
you however I can in order foryou to help answer some of the
questions that people have,because I know that's an
important thing for ourcommunity.
And so you know, personally Ihave the story my grandmother
gave me and I try to keep tothat as strongly as I can and
(18:18):
hold that space that she heldand that's my job.
But I see that your job, youknow, speaking to me, is to do
this more historical work.
And how can I support you inthat?
And I really respected that andfelt very honored by that.
Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So, as you've been out in the Reiki world here
since 2001, talking toindividuals, and you've been
honored to connect with so manywonderful people in the lineage,
what has been a commonmisconception about Reiki?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I mean, I think it's part of it is what I was saying
before.
I mean there's many, many, manymisconceptions, but for me, I
mean I think it's this idea thatReiki is this like ancient
practice that Usui likerediscovered and it really like,
in the form that we practice ittoday, has been practiced for
(19:11):
thousands of years and goes backto wherever ancient you know,
whatever you want to call ittibet or china, or india or
egypt, or outer space, space, um, that I that I think, sure,
like the idea of connecting withlife force, energy and using
hands, using breath, um, inorder to awaken people's you
(19:34):
know, natural healing abilitiesthrough spiritual practice,
inspiration, connecting to thedivine, like that has been
practiced around the world, youknow, since probably before
recorded history.
But the actual like practicetaught by Usui Sensei, with
these particular types ofinitiations, these particular
symbols, you know, that seems toreally be about a hundred years
(19:58):
old, right, and it was, I feel,like a spiritual technology
that he developed in order toconnect to that timeless,
universal source of healing, butthat, like this particular
practice, I feel like, yeah, isnot more than 100-something
years old.
So that's one misconceptionthat I feel like I could.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I like the term that you use spiritual technology.
I like the term that you usespiritual technology, and it was
like he created a frameworkaround this that we've been able
to carry forward and alsoevolve, right, so, but yeah, so,
yeah, I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So if you could tell anybody, if they're coming to
you what?
Is this Reiki?
What does it mean?
What is one?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
thing you wish every person knew about Reiki.
I mean, I think it's somethingI kind of just alluded to where
it's that you know the Reikipractitioner, the energy itself
is not you know they're part ofyour healing journey in a sense,
but that it's really you'realso part of that journey, and
that Reiki kind of puts peoplein a state where they can
(21:11):
naturally heal and that it's notlike a savior who is going to.
You know what.
I mean, that like you're partof this, that's, I think,
something that I think is reallyimportant and that and I think
also.
I think as a practitioner, I'msure you know, maybe you all
have felt this as well, and Ithink it's in some of the
stories.
(21:31):
Takata said if the person who'sreceiving isn't like invested
in it, that they're not going toreally receive, and so that
there's this sensation sometimeswhere I feel like even like my
hands are being like pushed awayfrom the person or the Reiki is
just kind of bouncing off of aperson or something like that,
(21:51):
and um, it's kind of like okay,listen, if you're not ready for
this.
You know and I think there'sbeen a lot of different ways
that people have dealt with thatissue, um, different ages, but
um, yeah, that you can't makeanybody heal if they aren't like
part of that process as wellyeah, yeah, and usually when you
ask people about that, you knowlike why isn't it working, what
(22:13):
?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
why is it not happening?
It usually comes back tothey're not practicing, they're
not doing the.
You know the Reiki principles,etc.
Rose, did you have something?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
you want.
I was just going to say, um,that sometimes even new students
are very skeptical and theyneed some type of validation
from whoever they're.
You know, practicing on, Ishould say, and I think every
student I've ever taught alwayssaid I don't know if it's
working, I don't know if it's,you know doing this and that,
and then someone says, oh, Ireally feel your hands warm.
You know, there's like this, Idon't know this, like learning
(22:44):
curve or this feeling you needto create a relationship with
Reiki.
That's how I always tell themthat you need to create your
practice and your relationshipwith Reiki and it's ongoing and
it's not like you know you'regoing to flip a switch and, hey,
everything's in the right order.
So, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, so, and it kind of comes in waves too.
I feel like there's aparticular you know session,
there's a particular connectionyou make and you're sweating
bullets.
You know your hands are likefeeling like electric and like,
oh my God, this is so intense.
And then other times you putyour hands up.
It feels nice.
You know how does it feel?
It feels nice.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know it's like relaxing you know, whatever it
is like, it's just it'smysterious.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, it's like relaxing, you know.
Whatever it is Like, it's justit's mysterious.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, it's mysterious .
It's different each time.
Exactly, yeah, very good.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So, what are some qualities you look for in a
Reiki master teacher?
Yeah, if I was like going to begetting trained, if I was like
looking for a teacher.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
As you were looking and you were exploring.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You know when you found I didn't know anything
when I was looking, so I mean Ithink I was part of it is.
I was wondering how expensivethe courses were and you know I
didn't really know a whole lotabout.
You know Reiki at that time.
But, I think I mean, like anykind of spiritual practice, you
want to maybe get to know theteacher a little bit before you
(24:05):
sign up for the course, maybeget a treatment from them, make
sure you have a nice connectionwith them, make sure they seem
like a person with integrity.
There's a lot of differentflavors of Reiki out there and
so certain people are going toconnect with certain.
You know styles, I think, morethan others.
I don't know that there's auniversal kind of tip for
(24:28):
students out there, but I thinkjust to make sure that the
person you're learning from, Ithink, seems to have heart and
seems to be present and haveeveryone's best intentions in
mind, just, I guess, some rulesof thumb maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Beautiful, beautiful.
So on TikTok I have a littlecharacter that's called the
Reiki police and that I bring upviolations right and different
things just as a very playfulway.
But Reiki seems to be reallymainstream now thanks to TikTok,
social media.
So as it's become moremainstream, are there any red
(25:06):
flags that someone who doesn'tknow a thing about radio should
look for?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean, again, there's a lot of different like
styles out there and so there's,there's maybe certain things
that make me feel a littleuncomfortable, but they might
work for someone else.
So I'm a little trepidatious tosay you know, you know, avoid
(25:33):
anybody who's doing X, y or Z.
But I think you know people,let's just say maybe like people
who seem very like ego driven,where, like it's, they have
these incredible powers and noone else has powers like I do.
Like that's, I think, a big redflag.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Fair enough, very good.
So what advice would you givesomeone who's just entering the
field of Reiki, the spiritualmodality?
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Be open, but also, maybe like keep your eyes open
too, right.
Like, don't like be connectedwith heaven, but also be
connected with earth, right,that there's a kind of
interpretation of the twocharacters, of the key, where
the day is like comes fromheaven and the key is what comes
from earth, and that we kind ofare in the middle combining
(26:19):
them and, um, yeah, I think that, uh, what did I say?
Like, uh, don't, don't be soopen-minded, your brains fall
out, or something like that.
Right, but also like practice,practice, practice, practice.
Right, that, as Rose was saying, most people, I think, when you
first start practicing thataren't necessarily very
(26:42):
sensitive to the energy.
You're not sure if it's workingand, on the contrary, sometimes
people are practicing and it'slike too intense and you're like
, oh my God, this is great.
So, like, again, there'sdifferent lineages out there,
but for people who have, likethe foundation treatment, you
know, do your head, but alsomake sure you're doing your
(27:03):
belly and your abdomen, rightthat like getting those
different hand positions, um,you know, treating yourself
every day, treating other peoplewhen you can, when they're open
to it, the more you practice, Ithink people work through a lot
of the initial issues that theyhave.
Yeah, Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So what books do you recommend?
What is in Justin B Stein'slibrary?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, I mean, there's a few things that have been
important books for methroughout.
You know the ages, I guess Interms of you know more kind of
historical research books whichis like what you know for me is
big.
You know, I think Frank GarjavaPetter's this is Reiki is like
(27:52):
a really important book.
2012 is the English translationat least, and there's a lot of
information there about UsuiSensei, the Usui Reiki,
traditional Japanese Reikitechniques, some of which came
out in earlier books, like thespirit of Reiki, which came out
in 2001, and some of that, yeah,books like the Spirit of Reiki,
(28:19):
which came out in 2001,.
Had some of that.
So sorry, my connection or am Iback on?
Okay, my connection was alittle shaky for a sec, but yeah
, I think that that book byArjava was really important for
my development and I think I andI still go back to it.
Um, he has some translated umsources that really don't appear
(28:40):
anywhere else and um.
So, yeah, I think that's that'sbeen an important book for me.
Um.
For people interested in Takataand her lineage, um and like
the 22 masters, um.
Robert Fuston's book um Reikitransmissions of light um is
another important book.
I would say there have beensome folks from the Takata
lineages who have taken issuewith some of the things Robert
(29:03):
said.
In there there's a little bitof controversial takes, but at
the same time, I think therereally is also a lot of great
resources in there.
So, in terms of from the 2010s,those are probably two books.
Nicholas Pearson's book also,foundations of Usui Reiki Ryoho.
I think he does a good jobsynthesizing a lot of the
(29:24):
information that was out beforehim, taking stuff from our Java
and Franz and, I think, somestuff from my work as well and
giving a pretty good foundationfor people interested in
traditional Japanese Reiki andit's a little more practice
oriented, I think, than some ofthose other books.
And if I could just mention twomore I know you're asking me
about books I've got a wholelibrary.
(29:46):
Of course, my book from 2023, Idefinitely recommend to folks,
particularly people interestedin the historical development of
Reiki, how it changed over time.
It's called Alternate Currents.
It's, you know, a little moreacademic-y, but it really does
try to tell the story of Hawaii,takata.
And so some people have told meyou know, hey, I don't normally
(30:09):
like academic books, but thishad a very narrative approach
and I learned so much aboutTakata and her life and her time
and I learned so much aboutTakata and her life and her time
and she's so much more of likea human being to me now.
So that's always nice to hear.
And then also, very recently,olaf Bum, b-o-h-m.
He's actually about torepublish his book through
(30:31):
Amazon because some of thedistribution international
distribution wasn't as goodoutside of Europe.
But his book is called Reiki AJourney to Oneness with the
Universe and also has a lot ofamazing historical resources in
there, things that neverappeared anywhere else before.
(30:52):
Olaf's been a big help, like inmy book Olaf, let me see all of
these historical sources thathe had collected.
So I've been very personallybenefited from his work.
I actually have sometranslations in his book as well
, and so, yeah, all of thosebooks.
Oh, and if I can mention onemore, the book that just came
out is the Tomita Kaiji.
(31:14):
It's called Reiki and theBenevolent Art of Healing, and
so that's a book that wasoriginally published in Japanese
in 1933.
And we just recently releasedthe translation of it.
And again, like, not everybodyis going to connect with every
(31:34):
aspect of Tomita's practice.
It involves long periods ofmeditation, you know, kneeling
for long periods of time, which,as someone who's, you know,
done Japanese meditation, I'lltell you your legs are going to
fall asleep.
And why am I doing this?
But, at the same time, I thinkthere's also a lot of amazing
resources in there about howearly Reiki was practiced.
So, yeah, I think there's alsoa lot of amazing resources in
(31:55):
there about how early Reiki waspracticed.
So, yeah, I think that was sixbooks.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So maybe that's more than you're looking for.
Thank you for sharing that.
Is there any other of yourbooks that you would like to
share as well?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I think it's really the alternate currents is
the one like real book lengththing that I have out right now.
But I'm working on a new one.
It's going to be like an editedvolume on Reiki and I'm
actually actively working onthat right now and hopefully
that'll be out from also from UHPress, university of Hawaii
Press, in the next year or two.
(32:26):
But yeah, the Tomita book justcame out.
I worked on that.
That was, yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And you were recently on our friends Colleen and
Robyn's podcast Reiki Lifestyles.
That goes into a little bitmore of a discussion with your
book, correct?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
The Tomita one yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It's beautiful, beautiful.
So if you want to go a littledeeper, check out Reiki
Lifestyles podcast with you onit.
So I think it's just out right,I think it was just the other
day.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Just the other day, right, I think it was just the
other day, just the other day,perfect, perfect timing,
wonderful, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So where can we find you?
If someone wants to go a littledeeper or find out about things
that you're going to announce,how do they connect with you?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We have two main places.
So one is on Facebook, is likemy most up to date things, you
know, new findings, events,talks like this.
I'll promote them all on myFacebook and it's Justin B Stein
Reiki Research.
It's kind of my public page sothat's definitely, if you're on
(33:26):
Facebook, a good follow, I think, for Reiki folks.
And then I also have a website,and then I also have a website,
justinsteinacademiaedu, and Ihave a lot of publications
(33:50):
available there from variousjournals and chapters, from
edited volumes, for folks whotalks I've given and so, yeah,
for folks who are interested inreading more of my stuff,
there's a lot of thingsavailable there for free,
beautiful, and I just lovehistory so much I just eat all
this up.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So thank you.
Thank you for all of your workand what you do for the Reiki
community.
It's really wonderful to getthat correct information out
there to those that arebeginning and those that are
currently, you know, sharingReiki with the world.
So that ends the first part ofour journey.
I'm going to pass you on to myco-guide, rose, that has some
questions for you.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I have a few questions, but I do also want to
say I'm very impressed with allthe work that you've done and
very grateful, because when Ifirst started or learned about
Reiki 30 years ago and practiced20 years ago, there wasn't a
lot out there.
So it really helps to kind of,you know, just create more of an
awareness and clarity aroundthe practice, which is beautiful
(34:41):
.
So I have some questions thatwere provided by listeners.
So one is recently, aroundApril or so, on your Facebook
page where you announceeverything you did, announce
some breaking news and thatthere's a series of documents
have recently been discovered.
Can you talk about and sharemore about that discovery?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Sure, yeah, and I'll mention a bit here.
But also, as Tracy mentioned, Ithink we go a little deeper
into it more time on Colin andRobin's Reiki Lifestyle Podcast.
So if people who want to hearmore about it, I definitely you
could check that out as well.
Um, but, but in short, um,these were really.
(35:20):
This is a really amazing find.
I think it's one of the mostsignificant um historical
discoveries about the life ofusui.
You know, probably in 20 years,30 years, like since, since the
memorial stone finding, in asense it is basically a
(35:41):
handwritten resume or CV ofUsui's life up to 1904.
And so 1904, he got hired inTaiwan, which was a Japanese
colony at the time, to work forthe colonial government,
(36:01):
studying Taiwanese law.
He had some law training beforeTaiwan became a Japanese colony
and as part of this hiringprocess he wrote out all of his
(36:23):
education, all the differentplaces where he studied, as well
as his work experience, andthere's a number of items in
there that resonateinterestingly and help
corroborate, maybe some aspectsof the story that Hawaii Okada
told of Usui in his life.
It's not 100% match to matchand also there's maybe a little
(36:45):
bit of missing time between itseems like he gets back from
Taiwan to Japan in 1911, andthen he starts teaching Reiki in
1922.
According to other accounts wehave, he was an intense Zen
practitioner for three yearsbefore Kurama.
So there's like 1911 to 1918,maybe this kind of you know now
(37:08):
black box or whatever.
But the fact that we have thatpre history is really
interesting.
And so some of the highlightsthere include that, for example,
that Usui came to the UnitedStates to study we know that,
you know that's part of theTakata story.
That's also on the memorialstone.
(37:39):
But specifically it seems thatUsui came to the US, it says, to
study philosophy and psychology, and psychology being a very
new science at the time, andthat he had studied previously
in Tokyo under this like topexperimental psychologist,
motora Yuji.
And it says that when he wentto the US he studied at the
Hawking School.
(38:00):
And we don't know what theHawking School was, but Motora
had studied at Johns Hopkinsunder at the time, you know, one
of the top experimentalpsychologists in the world at
Hopkins.
Now, unfortunately, that guyhad left by the time Usui went
(38:21):
to the United States and the guywho took his position hasn't
had his papers well archived.
I couldn't find any evidencethat Usui enrolled at Johns
Hopkins, but it's morebreadcrumbs on the trail about
like, where did Usui Senseistudy in the United States?
Like possibly in Baltimore?
So I'm going to try to keepworking on that.
And then, very interesting,after that he worked in San
(38:46):
Francisco, I think for about 18months at the Custom House in
San Francisco, probably helpingtranslate stuff for Japanese
people entering the UnitedStates at that time.
And so I'm actually in touchright now with the National
Archives to see what kinds ofdocuments exist from the San
Francisco Customs House from1899 to 1900, or, I forget, 1898
(39:11):
to 1899.
And so I'm waiting to hear backfrom them right now.
It's possible we'll find hispay stub or something you know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
How cool is that?
I mean, researching is so cool.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
It's a lot of time, but it's.
It's really fun.
It's a detective hunt.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And then when he got back to Japan, he was working
for a American women'smissionary society in Japan and
helped set up a school whichwould have been like a Christian
school in Tokyo for them andserved as the supervisor or like
(39:49):
the principal of the school,which, again in the Takata story
, she told it different ways anddifferent tellings.
You know, in some tellings hewas the president of Doshisha
University in Kyoto, but inother tellings he was the head
of a Christian boys' school.
And so this again I'm going totry to dig.
It seems a good fit would bethe Methodist church, which at
(40:11):
the time was called theMethodist Episcopal Church, and
they had a very strong women'sforeign missionary society.
They had a school in theneighborhood of Tokyo where Usui
Sensei started his school rightaround the same time.
The salaries and their budgetsseemed to match the salary on
his CV.
So he couldn't.
(40:32):
You know, was Usui Sensei aMethodist?
I don't know, but it seems thathe may have been.
You know, could have.
You know, was Usumi Sensei aMethodist?
I don't know, but it seems thathe may have been, you know,
teaching or you know supervisingat this Methodist school in
Tokyo in the early 20th century.
So again there's like thesekind of exciting, you know, for
people who are Reiki historynerds, this is big, this is big
time stuff.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I love it.
I love that.
This is great.
So the next question thank youfor that answer.
So one of the questions here isone of the lineages, of course,
that you come from is MadameTakata, which I think is awesome
because I think she's a rockstar.
To be honest with you, Most ofus are right.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I mean I'd say 90% of the Reiki practitioners in the
world at least.
I mean go back to Takata,takata, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I just love that she was so instrumental.
She was a female, you know thatbrought Reiki to the US.
I love that.
So, using the life and work ofHawaii Takata, why was her work
so important in the history ofReiki?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, I mean, without her Reiki would not be a global
phenomenon, right that she, youknow, brought it out of Japan.
You know where, before WorldWar II, usui de Kiryōho was
practiced by, I would say, tensof thousands of people in Japan.
Probably.
We have some evidence, somemember directories and things
(41:52):
like that.
I've never sat down and countedall the names, but the tens of
thousands, let's say.
But after World War II itreally declines and there would
still be, I would say, a fewhundred practitioners in Japan
today without Takata, but therewouldn't be a million people
around the world practicingReiki, or millions, we don't
(42:14):
know exactly how many.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Do you think it declined or do you think it just
wasn't um registered ordocumented?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I mean both.
I think, um, the, the societyhas been, I would say, somewhat
under the radar, uh, for a longtime and actually and it seems
like that was Usui and Hayashi'steaching was don't advertise,
don't you know?
Do this too publicly.
We don't you know, we can onlyspeculate about why.
(42:43):
But that that was recorded bypeople at the time, saying you
know, I'm writing this newspaperarticle about this amazing
therapy, but my teacher wouldn'tlike that.
I'm writing this because theydon't want it to be too public,
but it's so amazing I have totell the world about it, you
know.
So so yeah, it's, it'sdefinitely by design, been kind
of under the radar since thebeginning in Japan, but it also,
(43:07):
I think, the the overallnumbers of members of the
organization, I think, took anosedive in the post-war period,
but then, yeah.
So Takada, I mean, she's thereason all of us are doing Reiki
, she's the reason we're talkingabout Reiki.
So I think it's hard tooverestimate her importance for
the global history of Reiki.
(43:28):
And then she also did a lot ofcultural translation work where
she took a practice that may nothave been really accessible to
non-Japanese folks and figuredout how to make some changes to
make it a viable practice andalso part of what I argue in my
(43:50):
book is introduce some newteachings to try to make her
students and their students moreJapanese in certain ways.
So things around the importanceof reciprocity, right.
She added new teachings about,you know, the exchange of
energies.
She added a new you know Reikiprecept or ideal about honor
(44:11):
your parents, teachers andelders, which Japanese people
don't need to be taught right,but hippies, you know her 1970s
white, you know kind ofChristian upbringing, but
countercultural students didneed to be taught that right.
And so I think that she bothmade Reiki you know a worldwide
(44:32):
thing but also I think, helpedyou know, guide Reiki into a
particular direction that madeit more you know able to spread
and also, I think, helpedenculturate you know her
students to Japanese values in away by adding or adapting parts
of the practice.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, great, beautiful, by adding or adapting
parts of the practice.
Yeah, yeah, great, beautifuland uh.
The last question I have is inthe 1970s, madam takata placed
so she charged about tenthousand dollars for master
training, yeah, uh.
So now that you've studied herwork, do you view her placing
this cost for this training as away to just limit the modality
for people who were able toafford it?
Or for a way for her toself-persevere her energy,
(45:17):
because she lived to 90, versusUsui's passing of a stroke and
Usui working with over 2,000people then passing at the age
of 65 or perhaps a way toprovide an opportunity for more
devotion to her students?
So why do you think she charged$10,000 for training back then,
was it?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
no it's a great question.
I think there's a lot ofthere's a lot in that question.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, let's start with that.
Why do you think she?
Charged so much money.
Do you think she was just kindof saying it's only for people
that afford it or for peoplethat are really serious?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, the narratives around money like by Takata are
really interesting and I couldtalk for that, you know, for
another 45 minutes, I think, onthis topic, but I'll try to keep
it pretty brief.
So she definitely had thissense that you know you have to
give up something of value oryou're not going to value the
(46:16):
teaching, that it has to besignificant in order to bring
gratitude, the necessarygratitude, in the practitioner.
She really believed that.
You know, people believe thatyou get what you pay for and so
if you don't charge enough,people aren't really going to
value the teachings as much.
(46:38):
I think she also was buildingoff of her own experience with
her teacher.
She said that she had to sellher house in order to pay for
her teacher training and I thinkthat might be true.
I don't have like the smokinggun in terms of, but she did
sell her house around the timeof getting her master training
(47:01):
from Hayashi.
I don't know exactly how muchhe charged for Shinpiden, but I
think it was quite significant.
The Usui de Kirioho Gakkai hadquite significant fees for
becoming a member.
Now is part of that like anelitist classist, you know,
thing Like maybe they had a lotof upper class folks, because
(47:24):
they were the ones who couldafford it.
At the same time, it does seemthat in Japan, and also in
Takada's early practice, and youknow throughout her life there
was, I want to say, kind of likea sliding scale and adaptations
for folks who really wanted orneeded treatment or teaching but
(47:47):
couldn't quite make theprescribed, you know, fees.
In Japan it seems like therewere times where you would pay
for treatment and there weretimes where treatment was made
available for free.
It seems that in earlyUsui-riki-ryoho in Hawaii there
was the same thing, where therewere set fees for particular
(48:10):
types of treatment but, forexample, someone with chronic
illness who Takata wanted totreat every single day, they
weren't paying the same fee thatshe would charge for a normal
one hour treatment, you know,for 30 days in a row.
Right, there were arrangementsmade to make what she saw as the
best course of treatmentavailable for people who really
(48:31):
needed a lot of Reiki.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
It was bartering or something too.
There could have been a barterright.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Well yeah, and in some of her students I talk
about this in chapter three ofmy book some of her students
didn't charge any money, butthey were within the Japanese
American community that knowsyou don't just take stuff and
not have reciprocity.
And so people would bringwhether it's money, flowers,
food, beer, like there were allkinds of gifts that were given
(48:58):
to prominent Reiki practitionersin Hawaii throughout this
period when they didn't have setfees.
It was just kind of assumedlisten, I'm doing something for
you, you're going to repay me insome way, right?
That's just kind of part of theculture Now in terms of the
$10,000, just kind of part ofthe culture Now in terms of the
$10,000, she did havearrangements with some students
(49:19):
where, for example, they couldorganize classes for her and the
money from that classes wouldbe applied to the $10,000.
Rick Bachner I talk about in mybook.
You know he was a tree planter.
He was living in an off thegrid cabin that he had built
himself in the woods.
He had a baby, a new baby, andhis wife was pregnant.
(49:40):
He's like listen, I want it.
And she loved and she thoughthe was a very good student and
she really wanted him to be aReiki master and he was the
final Reiki master she initiatedbefore she passed.
And so she said OK, if you cangive me five,000 and organize
classes, that will add up toanother 5,000, that works.
(50:01):
And so, yeah, on the one hand, Ithink that she established
these high fees in part becauseof that's the way she had been
taught, in part because shereally believed that it made
someone really value what theywere receiving, and also in part
, I think, that she wasn't sucha stickler for the fees as maybe
(50:24):
she's sometimes portrayed.
That we know that, for example,she was teaching a class where
there were you know 10, 12, youknow people who were paying for
the class.
She would also initiate theorganizer's parents for free or
their children for free.
So we're told never give itaway for free.
(50:45):
Well, no, you know there areyou know loopholes.
Let's say, right, where it'slike okay, someone who's elderly
and they have a child who'spaying for the class, okay, I'll
throw in the elderly parent forfree, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, Well, I have to say, $10,000 is a lot of money,
even today.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
So yeah, oh, I mean, I have the, the uh inflation.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
I think it's more like a hundred thousand dollars
when she I, I, yeah, wow, that'sI'm glad some more I I'm glad
it became more affordable, um,so so the other part of it was,
you know, maybe it also was away to say how she valued her
own energy as well, because, Imean, she did live to 80 and she
(51:28):
didn't start out healthy onthis journey, but because of
reiki she was able to um live along life.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Hopefully one of the reasons she had a much better
work-life balance than usuisensei, for example that I think
with that person that he hedied young and and I think he
burned out like a, like a, youknow a hot flame kind of.
And Takata would always talkabout, she would carry her own
clubs to do nine holes of golf.
(51:56):
She was, I mean, into herseventies, late seventies.
I mean she was winning golftournaments.
She, you know, was a veryactive, which I think both you
know is showing her status righton some level.
Right, she's, you know, aJapanese lady, you know, in this
(52:17):
very white, dominated you knowkind of game in the us.
And then, but also her activityand her vitality, right, that
she um, uh, you know, was veryconscious of diet.
She um was into juicing, youknow, long time before most
folks were um, you know, she waslargely vegetarian but ate fish
, um, and occasion, like, Ithink, maybe once a week, she
(52:38):
liked lamb kidney whichapparently has some uh, kind of
yeah, certainly, yeah, yeah,yeah, but also like chinese
medicine.
I think has some connectionsthere.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, we need to have a movie about the life of times
of Takata.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
So a good friend of mine works for PBS and is Reiki
master in New York City and shehas been pushing an American
Masters PBS episode about Takata.
Oh, that would be great.
I would love to see that.
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
And I want to say too , I want to circle back to
something you said aboutintegrating practices with
integrity.
I love that you said that,because one of the things that I
practice Reiki, but I'm also aQigong practitioner and I've
studied a lot of Qigong andlearning other ways to use
Qigong to heal and integratingthe two practices.
It's really powerful to do that.
And so, yeah, I know we, youknow we have Reiki, but there is
(53:35):
also other ways to inviteenergy and healing and it's it's
all wonderful and beautiful.
So, anyway, but thank you forthe answers to those questions
and yeah, so hand it off back toTracy.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
All right Actually can you jump in on that one?
That one last point that wasbriefly.
You know I've I've heard fromyou know, some people regarding
that point about also liketransparency, right, and so like
if you're going to be bringingsome other practice into Reiki,
to like let folks know aboutthat, like maybe like that's
(54:09):
also part of integrity and like,oh, yeah, yeah, that like
because some people are like oh,I'm doing reiki and then
they're, I don't know, doingshamanic practices or doing um,
whatever it is, and um, it'slike I think that's part of also
adds to some of the confusionlike what is reiki?
Is reiki about entities?
Is reiki about ascended masters?
Is reiki about, you know,angels?
(54:30):
And so that like to like havingthat kind of, I think, clarity
with people like hey, listen,you know this is my spiritual
path, and like it's not, youknow, I add this on to reiki or
something you know, that umhelps, I think, maybe hopefully
clarify things, because I thinkthere's a lot of, yeah, people
out there who are doing you know, I don't know, and maybe
(54:52):
angelic reiki, but don't call itangelic reiki and say, oh, this
is reiki or something you know.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, just be upfront about the whole thing.
I'd like to ask one morequestion, and I always ask
people who I about ask.
This question is like what isyour vision for reiki?
How do you see it evolving orchanging, or?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
yeah, I mean, that's a great question.
I think what rose sorry bros,what tracy had mentioned about,
um, the mainstreaming of reiki,that like, where um it has, you
know, become a word that youknow has become very pervasive
with, I mean, it's I don't knowagain which of these trends are
going to be long lasting, butpeople doing like asmr videos,
(55:31):
where it's like, you know, kindof like, put your phone next to
you while you do a meditationand allow me to send reiki
through the phone and through my, you know, um, you know,
healing vibrations of the,whatever you know, I mean that
does seem to be like one kind ofway where, like, reiki is
moving.
But I hope that, like as wetalked about, there's also this
kind of sense that like Reiki ismoving.
But I hope that, like as wetalked about, there's also this
(55:52):
kind of sense that like okay,you know, I just was writing
about this the other day Like,when you look up like hashtag
Reiki on Instagram, so manythings come up that really have
like very little to do withReiki, right About?
you know the.
Are you seeing these angelnumbers appearing?
You know nine, nine, nine, andit's like is this Reiki?
(56:13):
Like.
You know 999, and it's like isthis reiki, like you know?
But hashtag reiki, right like?
Or um, you know different stuffout there that we're like.
I think I hope that the future,that the what makes like reiki
particular and special, isn'tkind of lost in this kind of
generalization of reiki as justlike another term for the
vibrations of the universe.
Like well on some level it isthe vibrations of the universe.
(56:35):
It's also a particular type ofpractice, and so I hope that the
future of Reiki both continuesto see the mainstreaming of it
that you know, the integrationof it into biomedical spaces, I
think can be really great, andwe've seen, you know, hospitals
all over the world kind of, Ithink, taking up more things
like that but also that itdoesn't just become this generic
(56:55):
name for everything right forany kind of spiritual practice I
think.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
but I think it's because of people like
yourselves who are doingresearch and, you know, really
getting that information outthere and saying this is, you
know, this is real.
So I think people like yourselfwill maintain, help maintain
that integrity of the practice,and people like Tracy who are
doing this and bringing peoplelike yourselves on.
So that's just my two cents.
I think that is wonderful workthat you're doing, so thank you.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
From your lips to God's ears, you know.
So, as we come to finish ourtime together as we've been
talking, is there anything thatyou might have forgotten about,
(57:44):
something that you want to share?
The floor is yours, I think youknow.
It seems like a lot of thefocus of the show is for
practitioners, for newpractitioners getting their
grounding, and so, because I'mnot a Reiki master, I'm only a
level two practitioner and Iteach about Reiki, I lead people
in, you know, sometimes Reikimeditations and things like that
(58:04):
, but I don't have my own Reikistudents and sometimes I think I
get a little bit like am Ireally the right person to be
answering all these questions?
Sometimes I think I get alittle bit like am I really the?
right person to be answering allthese questions, but at the
same time, yeah, I just I hopemy perspective is helpful for
your listeners and, yeah, justthanks for having me Absolutely,
just so you know you are,because it's all lineages, all
levels.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Everyone is a teacher .
Everyone you meet is a teacherand will teach you something new
.
So whether someone is thatcurious beginner to the seasoned
master teacher, I mean, youtaught me a couple things today.
I had always heard that storyabout Madam Takata charging as
much as you would be for a houseright in Hawaii, but I didn't
even connect that she sold herown home, because what I was
(58:46):
taught is that she worked forHitoshi in the clinic, so it
never even connected that thatwas the possibility that she
paid for um hatashi and her inthe clinic, so it never even
connected that that was thepossibility that she paid for
for this.
So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yeah, I think her apprenticeship, you know she
lived with the hayashi's um andso, yeah, she was like the uchi
deshi, you know, living withthem.
But I don't think thatnecessarily paid for her her
training fees and things likethat as well.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
Okay and also, well, there was something else he said
oh yeah, the the thing abouteveryone being, but I don't
think that necessarily paid forher training fees and things
like that as well.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Ok, and also there was something else you said.
Oh, yeah, the thing abouteveryone being your teacher.
I heard my friend Diane, who Imentioned before, the one who
works in New York City.
She, I think, usui Shiki Ryohoand you have the Takata style
precepts or ideals about honoryour parents, teachers and
(59:36):
elders, and some people have avery big blockage with that.
And, um, you know what, if youknow you've been in bad
relationships with people, thatthat you know that it's not only
the people you know literallyyou're like parents and you know
literally your teachers, butthat everyone around you on some
level is kind of helping givebirth to a new you, is helping
(59:58):
teach you, and so that it's.
You know, the teachers as wellhave to learn from our students,
learn from our colleagues, and,yeah, that we we really have to
honor, you know, everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Well, thank you, justin, so much for taking time
out of your very, very busyschedule to join us, rose, thank
you as well, rose.
Do you want to tell ourlisteners once again where they
can find you?
just rose whoopagecom and mypodcast is chat off the mat and
make sure to check out reikilifestyles as well, because
justin's featured on that aswell.
It goes a little bit deeper.
Well, thank you everyone forjoining us on this journey.
(01:00:32):
If you'd like your questionfeatured on the podcast, reach
out.
You'll find it atwwwreadysetrickycom.
Check out social media or sendme an email.
I'm Tracy Seawright and thishas been Ready.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Set.
Copyright © 2020 Mooji MediaLtd.
All Rights Reserved.
This is Ready Set Reiki, a podcast about Reiki and
all energy work, from thecurious beginner to the seasoned
master teacher, welcoming allsystems, all lineages and all
levels.
Reiki is a journey and not adestination, and on this Ready
Set Reiki journey, I refer tomyself as a guide rather than a
host, as I, too, am traveling,helping, supporting others and
(00:43):
learning on this Reiki journeyas well.
And with that said, I am yourguide, tracy C Wright.
And this is Ready Set Reiki.
Hello, beautiful friends,welcome Ready Set Reiki.
I'm Tracy C Wright.
Well, what an amazing episodetoday is going to be.
Not only do we have an amazingguest, I have one of my favorite
people that has her own amazingpodcast as well, so let me
(01:08):
introduce my wonderful,beautiful, amazing and talented
friend, rose Rose.
You already sent Reikilisteners all about you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, tracy, you're too kind.
You know I adore you and I'myour biggest fan, so thank you
for having me as your co-guide.
I love being on here with youand our Reiki universe.
So my name is Rose Whippage andI'm the host of Chat Off the
Mat.
I'm a Reiki master, I'm a yogateacher, qigong teacher as well,
and I'm author of an upcomingbook.
I don't want to talk too muchabout it, but I'm going to be on
Tracy's podcast and we'll talkall about that at another time,
(01:39):
so I'm just happy to be here.
Thank you, tracy.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I cannot wait for October to roll around to get
that book, so looking forward toit.
So the reason why we're heretoday on this journey and this
is what the great thing abouthaving a podcast is I have
people often ask you know, whyare you doing this if you're not
making thousands and millionsof dollars?
And it's just to meet wonderfuland amazing people like Rose
and our next guest.
(02:02):
Well, our next guest amazingPhD.
He is a scholar author.
He is a scholar of Japanesereligion and spiritual in
transnational perspective Wow.
He is currently chair of theAsian Studies Program in
Kowaland, sao Paulo TechnicalUniversity Wow, that's a tongue
(02:23):
twister.
In British Columbia, canada, heis the author of the Alternate
Currents Reiki Circulation inthe 20th Century North Pacific
University of Hawaii, press 2023, which uses the life and work
of Madame Takada as a framethrough which to look at how
Reiki developed and involved inJapan, hawaii and North America,
(02:44):
and this is a time framebetween 1920s and 1980s.
He's also written severalpeer-reviewed articles, book
chapters on Reiki, buddhism andco-editor in this handbook of
Religion, medicine and Health.
Now he has been a Reikipractitioner since 2001.
He has studied Madame Takada'slineage.
Practitioner since 2001.
(03:07):
He has studied Madame Takada'slineage, as well as other
Japanese lineages.
In addition, he loves outdoormusic, cycling and skiing.
I mean, what an amazing personhere.
So let's give a warm Ready SetReiki.
Welcome to Justin B Stein.
Justin, welcome to Ready SetReiki.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Thanks so much, Tracy .
What a nice intro.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Wonderful, I mean.
So much information, so muchknowledge.
I cannot wait to start thisjourney, so let's begin.
I gave our listeners a littlebit of a taste about you.
Might have pronounced a wordwrong here or there, so let's
hear it from you.
You're a beautiful voice here.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, I think you hit most of the main points.
I maybe could say I was bornand raised in New York, but now
I am a permanent resident ofCanada where I've been based for
about 15 years now, mostrecently two years in Kyoto on a
(04:04):
postdoctoral fellowship atBukyo University.
And, yeah, I first found Reiki.
Actually, my first initiationswere in India when I was in my
early 20s, and so I've been apractitioner now for almost 25
years and it's a reallywonderful part of my life.
And, yeah, the way that I kindof dove into being an academic
(04:29):
researcher of Reiki history, youknow, definitely changed my
whole life, introduced me towonderful people like you two
and as, yeah, it's having boththe kind of the practice side of
things and also the scholarshipside of things, it definitely
affects me every single day.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So beautiful.
Now, in my journey of life,what sparked me to be an
elementary school teacher is Ididn't have a very nice
kindergarten teacher.
She was actually quite mean andI remember, at five years old,
thinking I'm going to grow upand be a teacher so that kids
will love being in my classroomand love coming to school.
But what inspired you to studyJapanese, regional and
(05:09):
spirituality in a transnationalperspective?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, well, that was a long path, I gotta say.
I think when I was a teenager,I got interested in Buddhism and
meditation.
I had been introduced tomeditation and yoga by my mom,
who is a longtime TMpractitioner, and I was always
(05:33):
kind of interested in I don'tknow what you might call the
paranormal world.
You know things beyond, youknow what we normally see with
our two eyes and kind ofspiritual ways of being.
And then I, when I was anundergraduate, I wanted to do a
Buddhist studies program inIndia and my dad actually kind
(05:54):
of pushed me towards Japan aslike a safer place to be.
You know, a young maninterested in spiritual paths.
And yeah, when I was in Japan, Ihad been initiated into a
different type of energy healingbefore my trip, and so I was
doing these chakra meditationsand these kind of fingertip, you
(06:18):
know, applications of prana forspiritual healing, and I was
having some very profoundexperiences.
And then, while I was in Japan,I learned, oh, there's actually
a lot of Japanese modalitiesthat also engage in similar
types of practice, and so I gotinterested in that and I wrote a
grant to go back to Asia andlearn more about different forms
(06:43):
of energy healing and I endedup, yeah, becoming a school
teacher as well for a few yearsand then went back to grad
school and was like, okay, likelet's look at energy healing.
And the history of Reiki turnedout to be something that no one
had really written much aboutfrom a scholarly perspective.
And the more I studied aboutthe history of Reiki, it was
(07:05):
clear that you know, even thoughwe talk about it as like a
Japanese healing art, it's notlike purely Japanese right.
It was developed in the modernperiod when Japan was very much
enmeshed in what I call atransnational currents, and so
Reiki itself, you know, kindkind of, I think, needs to be
studied from this kind oftransnational Japanese
(07:26):
perspective.
So I hope that was my bestnutshell response to a big
question very good.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I had seen some of your articles over the years and
I was listening to a lecture byWilliam Rand last year and
that's when your name came up.
He spoke about it and so myears perked up.
I'm like, hmm, and we'll talk alittle bit later about
something that you announced,but we go where it first began.
When did Reiki come into yourlife?
(07:56):
Did Reiki find you or did youfind Reiki?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, well, I knew, I mean, I guess, as I started
doing research on differenttypes of energy healing,
certainly Reiki.
This was in around 2000,.
Maybe the name Reiki wasprominent at that time, as it
continues to be today, and so Iknew it was like a well-known,
(08:23):
widespread form of hands-onenergy healing.
And then, yeah, there had beensome kind of funny
synchronicities, I guess, as Iwas starting my research when I
was in London, the UK, with thisReiki lady there and I knew it
(08:44):
was something that I needed toand I was doing like participant
observation research, so I wasgetting initiated in and
studying various forms ofhealing, including Kundalini
stuff, qigong stuff and um Reikiand other um, japanese, uh
modalities, and so, yeah, I knewit was something that I wanted
to study.
(09:04):
So I guess, yeah, did it findme or did I find it?
I think maybe it's two sides ofthe same coin on some level.
Right, it definitely appearedin my life as a young man and
has continued to be an importantpart of my life since then.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Beautiful and, as that important part of your life
.
What has surprised you aboutReiki in your research and
really in your own personal life?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think in my research, I think the
thing that was most surprisingto me was the degree to which
Usui Sensei I think wasinfluenced by as I mentioned
before, I think was influencedby, as I mentioned before, kind
of these transnationalinfluences, in addition to being
, I think, well steeped inJapanese spiritual and religious
(09:51):
healing traditions that youknow as people can read about in
my book or I've published someother things on this topic as
well that there were hands-onhealing practices in the US at
that time.
There was a lot of practicearound the power of the mind and
(10:11):
this is like late 19th, early20th century and that those
practices and those teachingswere translated into Japanese in
the early 20th century and werevery influential.
So, while Japanese people wereteaching century and were very
influential, so while Japanesepeople were teaching, you know
practices like Reiki, wherethere's, you know, esoteric
initiations that I think have aBuddhist influence, and ideas
(10:32):
about Qi, you know, purveyingthe universe like Qi, which also
have a very strong and ancient,you know, chinese influence,
that there were also ideas aboutthe mind and the power of the
mind, or ideas about, you know,the scientific, you know term
like energy starting to getpicked up at that time.
(10:53):
And so there's ways where Reiki, I think, really bridges Asian
and North American, you know,kind of so-called like Eastern
and Western mentalities, as wellas kind of ancient spiritual
technologies and ideas frommodern science and medicine and
ways that Reiki has changed kindof over the years, integrating
(11:14):
other paradigms as well.
I think getting a perspectiveon all of that through my
research was maybe I don't knowif it was surprising, but
definitely profound for me.
(11:36):
And I think, in terms of thepractice end, I think
recognizing that this is anevolving practice right, that
this is something where it's, Ithink it's important to connect
with the roots and I think it'simportant to know where it came
from.
And of course I'm a historianso I'm going to say that.
But I think also having trustin one's own connection with the
energy or the power and one'sintuition, and feeling that kind
(11:56):
of openness to being guided andthat kind of presence in the
practice, I think is also likeit's the other side of that coin
, maybe.
And so that there's, I think, alot of people out there who are
saying, oh, you know, thetraditional way is the only way
or the best way, whereas there'sa lot of other people who are
(12:20):
adding new things to thepractice from their own
experience, and I think that tobe able to draw that horizon
where we honor maybe both ofthose things, you know, as long
as they're done with integrity,I think, is something that I
think practice continues toteach me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, right, right.
I have found in my experience,when I have gone to trainings
alongside fellow students andeven some of my students, the
history is what catches them up.
They are excited, they're ready, they're ready for the energy,
they get that attunement orplacement, they're ready to go
out into the world.
And then, when it's time forthem to teach, they often have
(12:59):
difficulty remembering all ofthese things.
And you know, many people areable to go in person, online Now
they're able to watch videosand there's such a variety out
there in the world andoftentimes the history gets
overlooked.
When I began my first Reikitraining, the history was a
little blotchy, a little likenot complete, and then I found,
(13:23):
uh, the Healing Touch by WilliamLee Rand and here it was this
evidence-based, and I was likewhoa, here it is, and all the
pieces were coming together Inyour experience.
Why is history so important?
Why is the history of Reiki soimportant for us to know, to
pass on to our students?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, I think there's a few reasons, and so one of
them is, I think, that the ideathat this is an initiation
lineage, where we are practicinga particular form of practice,
as I said, while it continues toevolve and change, there's also
(14:04):
this idea that aspects of thepractice, important aspects of
the practice, have been passeddown, you know, from master to
student, going back to thefounder, usui Sensei, and that
we are part of that lineagemakes it so that I think
(14:43):
understanding some of thathistory is part of what the
practice is right and tellingstories about the lineage,
learning from the experiences ofthose who've come before us.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think that's an important aspect of Reiki
practice.
Yeah, I could say more, butmaybe let's just leave it.
Well, especially from thelineage you come from, from
Takata, you know I had connecteda few years ago with the Reiki
Alliance and there was thathistory.
You need to know that history.
It was so important becausethere's many people out there
that have the wrong information.
I was observing something on aFacebook page and a gentleman
posted this is my, my sensei'smanual and he had where azuri
(15:10):
sensei was beginning with thereiki energy and we know when he
was born, we know when he died.
And I said, hey, you might wantto like tell your teacher that,
like he has this date on here,this would have made made a Zui
five years old.
And he said, nope, my teacheris correct.
And it's just so interestingthe misinformation that's out
there.
(15:31):
And this person was arguing withme.
It's like there's a memorialstone, there's things out there.
Nope, this is the date and I'mgoing to go buy it.
So apparently in his world, inhis lineage, a Zui sensei was
doing this at five world.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
In his lineage, a zui sensei, was doing this at five.
Well, and that's, I think, alsothe other side of this kind of
openness to being guided andintuition is there are a lot of
people who have their own kindof channeled information that,
like, on the one hand, like Iwant to um honor their
experience, and that they, youknow, feel like they have these
particular insights andconnections, um, but then when
(16:07):
you try to make it into and thiscontradicts, like all of the
historical evidence that we have, like that's where, you know,
it kind of becomes tricky, um,because there's all these
different kind of stories andnarratives about where Reiki
comes from.
And, yeah, I think, in this erawhere we actually have, as you
(16:30):
mentioned, kind of more accessto the, you know, historical
evidence of the life of Usui inJapan, that there are texts that
are being translated and madeavailable more widely, it's a
really different scene than itwas 30 years ago, where there
(16:51):
was a lot of circumspect andconflicting stories and we
didn't really know how can youfigure out which one is correct
Like these days, the evidence isreally a lot more accessible is
correct.
Like now, these days, theevidence is really a lot more
accessible.
So you know.
At the same time, you knowpeople might have their own
(17:13):
beliefs and insights and youknow there's not a lot we can do
for some folks to convince themotherwise.
And it is, you know, it hasbeen this game of telephone and
where little bits get addedalong the way and then it's like
, yeah, where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh, right Right.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
But when I was doing some of my research you know
Phyllis Furumoto when I firstthe first time I connected with
Phyllis Furumoto, takata'sgranddaughter and lineage bearer
for the Usui Shiki Dioho, shetold me she's like, listen, the
kinds of historical researchquestions you have are not
interesting to me at all, like Idon't care about any of that
stuff.
But I know there are a lot ofother people in the Reiki world
(17:56):
who really care about that verydeeply and so I want to support
you however I can in order foryou to help answer some of the
questions that people have,because I know that's an
important thing for ourcommunity.
And so you know, personally Ihave the story my grandmother
gave me and I try to keep tothat as strongly as I can and
(18:18):
hold that space that she heldand that's my job.
But I see that your job, youknow, speaking to me, is to do
this more historical work.
And how can I support you inthat?
And I really respected that andfelt very honored by that.
Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So, as you've been out in the Reiki world here
since 2001, talking toindividuals, and you've been
honored to connect with so manywonderful people in the lineage,
what has been a commonmisconception about Reiki?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I mean, I think it's part of it is what I was saying
before.
I mean there's many, many, manymisconceptions, but for me, I
mean I think it's this idea thatReiki is this like ancient
practice that Usui likerediscovered and it really like,
in the form that we practice ittoday, has been practiced for
(19:11):
thousands of years and goes backto wherever ancient you know,
whatever you want to call ittibet or china, or india or
egypt, or outer space, space, um, that I that I think, sure,
like the idea of connecting withlife force, energy and using
hands, using breath, um, inorder to awaken people's you
(19:34):
know, natural healing abilitiesthrough spiritual practice,
inspiration, connecting to thedivine, like that has been
practiced around the world, youknow, since probably before
recorded history.
But the actual like practicetaught by Usui Sensei, with
these particular types ofinitiations, these particular
symbols, you know, that seems toreally be about a hundred years
(19:58):
old, right, and it was, I feel,like a spiritual technology
that he developed in order toconnect to that timeless,
universal source of healing, butthat, like this particular
practice, I feel like, yeah, isnot more than 100-something
years old.
So that's one misconceptionthat I feel like I could.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I like the term that you use spiritual technology.
I like the term that you usespiritual technology, and it was
like he created a frameworkaround this that we've been able
to carry forward and alsoevolve, right, so, but yeah, so,
yeah, I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So if you could tell anybody, if they're coming to
you what?
Is this Reiki?
What does it mean?
What is one?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
thing you wish every person knew about Reiki.
I mean, I think it's somethingI kind of just alluded to where
it's that you know the Reikipractitioner, the energy itself
is not you know they're part ofyour healing journey in a sense,
but that it's really you'realso part of that journey, and
that Reiki kind of puts peoplein a state where they can
(21:11):
naturally heal and that it's notlike a savior who is going to.
You know what.
I mean, that like you're partof this, that's, I think,
something that I think is reallyimportant and that and I think
also.
I think as a practitioner, I'msure you know, maybe you all
have felt this as well, and Ithink it's in some of the
stories.
(21:31):
Takata said if the person who'sreceiving isn't like invested
in it, that they're not going toreally receive, and so that
there's this sensation sometimeswhere I feel like even like my
hands are being like pushed awayfrom the person or the Reiki is
just kind of bouncing off of aperson or something like that,
(21:51):
and um, it's kind of like okay,listen, if you're not ready for
this.
You know and I think there'sbeen a lot of different ways
that people have dealt with thatissue, um, different ages, but
um, yeah, that you can't makeanybody heal if they aren't like
part of that process as wellyeah, yeah, and usually when you
ask people about that, you knowlike why isn't it working, what
(22:13):
?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
why is it not happening?
It usually comes back tothey're not practicing, they're
not doing the.
You know the Reiki principles,etc.
Rose, did you have something?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
you want.
I was just going to say, um,that sometimes even new students
are very skeptical and theyneed some type of validation
from whoever they're.
You know, practicing on, Ishould say, and I think every
student I've ever taught alwayssaid I don't know if it's
working, I don't know if it's,you know doing this and that,
and then someone says, oh, Ireally feel your hands warm.
You know, there's like this, Idon't know this, like learning
(22:44):
curve or this feeling you needto create a relationship with
Reiki.
That's how I always tell themthat you need to create your
practice and your relationshipwith Reiki and it's ongoing and
it's not like you know you'regoing to flip a switch and, hey,
everything's in the right order.
So, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, so, and it kind of comes in waves too.
I feel like there's aparticular you know session,
there's a particular connectionyou make and you're sweating
bullets.
You know your hands are likefeeling like electric and like,
oh my God, this is so intense.
And then other times you putyour hands up.
It feels nice.
You know how does it feel?
It feels nice.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know it's like relaxing you know, whatever it
is like, it's just it'smysterious.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, it's like relaxing, you know.
Whatever it is Like, it's justit's mysterious.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, it's mysterious .
It's different each time.
Exactly, yeah, very good.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So, what are some qualities you look for in a
Reiki master teacher?
Yeah, if I was like going to begetting trained, if I was like
looking for a teacher.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
As you were looking and you were exploring.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You know when you found I didn't know anything
when I was looking, so I mean Ithink I was part of it is.
I was wondering how expensivethe courses were and you know I
didn't really know a whole lotabout.
You know Reiki at that time.
But, I think I mean, like anykind of spiritual practice, you
want to maybe get to know theteacher a little bit before you
(24:05):
sign up for the course, maybeget a treatment from them, make
sure you have a nice connectionwith them, make sure they seem
like a person with integrity.
There's a lot of differentflavors of Reiki out there and
so certain people are going toconnect with certain.
You know styles, I think, morethan others.
I don't know that there's auniversal kind of tip for
(24:28):
students out there, but I thinkjust to make sure that the
person you're learning from, Ithink, seems to have heart and
seems to be present and haveeveryone's best intentions in
mind, just, I guess, some rulesof thumb maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Beautiful, beautiful.
So on TikTok I have a littlecharacter that's called the
Reiki police and that I bring upviolations right and different
things just as a very playfulway.
But Reiki seems to be reallymainstream now thanks to TikTok,
social media.
So as it's become moremainstream, are there any red
(25:06):
flags that someone who doesn'tknow a thing about radio should
look for?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean, again, there's a lot of different like
styles out there and so there's,there's maybe certain things
that make me feel a littleuncomfortable, but they might
work for someone else.
So I'm a little trepidatious tosay you know, you know, avoid
(25:33):
anybody who's doing X, y or Z.
But I think you know people,let's just say maybe like people
who seem very like ego driven,where, like it's, they have
these incredible powers and noone else has powers like I do.
Like that's, I think, a big redflag.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Fair enough, very good.
So what advice would you givesomeone who's just entering the
field of Reiki, the spiritualmodality?
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Be open, but also, maybe like keep your eyes open
too, right.
Like, don't like be connectedwith heaven, but also be
connected with earth, right,that there's a kind of
interpretation of the twocharacters, of the key, where
the day is like comes fromheaven and the key is what comes
from earth, and that we kind ofare in the middle combining
(26:19):
them and, um, yeah, I think that, uh, what did I say?
Like, uh, don't, don't be soopen-minded, your brains fall
out, or something like that.
Right, but also like practice,practice, practice, practice.
Right, that, as Rose was saying, most people, I think, when you
first start practicing thataren't necessarily very
(26:42):
sensitive to the energy.
You're not sure if it's workingand, on the contrary, sometimes
people are practicing and it'slike too intense and you're like
, oh my God, this is great.
So, like, again, there'sdifferent lineages out there,
but for people who have, likethe foundation treatment, you
know, do your head, but alsomake sure you're doing your
(27:03):
belly and your abdomen, rightthat like getting those
different hand positions, um,you know, treating yourself
every day, treating other peoplewhen you can, when they're open
to it, the more you practice, Ithink people work through a lot
of the initial issues that theyhave.
Yeah, Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So what books do you recommend?
What is in Justin B Stein'slibrary?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, I mean, there's a few things that have been
important books for methroughout.
You know the ages, I guess Interms of you know more kind of
historical research books whichis like what you know for me is
big.
You know, I think Frank GarjavaPetter's this is Reiki is like
(27:52):
a really important book.
2012 is the English translationat least, and there's a lot of
information there about UsuiSensei, the Usui Reiki,
traditional Japanese Reikitechniques, some of which came
out in earlier books, like thespirit of Reiki, which came out
in 2001, and some of that, yeah,books like the Spirit of Reiki,
(28:19):
which came out in 2001,.
Had some of that.
So sorry, my connection or am Iback on?
Okay, my connection was alittle shaky for a sec, but yeah
, I think that that book byArjava was really important for
my development and I think I andI still go back to it.
Um, he has some translated umsources that really don't appear
(28:40):
anywhere else and um.
So, yeah, I think that's that'sbeen an important book for me.
Um.
For people interested in Takataand her lineage, um and like
the 22 masters, um.
Robert Fuston's book um Reikitransmissions of light um is
another important book.
I would say there have beensome folks from the Takata
lineages who have taken issuewith some of the things Robert
(29:03):
said.
In there there's a little bitof controversial takes, but at
the same time, I think therereally is also a lot of great
resources in there.
So, in terms of from the 2010s,those are probably two books.
Nicholas Pearson's book also,foundations of Usui Reiki Ryoho.
I think he does a good jobsynthesizing a lot of the
(29:24):
information that was out beforehim, taking stuff from our Java
and Franz and, I think, somestuff from my work as well and
giving a pretty good foundationfor people interested in
traditional Japanese Reiki andit's a little more practice
oriented, I think, than some ofthose other books.
And if I could just mention twomore I know you're asking me
about books I've got a wholelibrary.
(29:46):
Of course, my book from 2023, Idefinitely recommend to folks,
particularly people interestedin the historical development of
Reiki, how it changed over time.
It's called Alternate Currents.
It's, you know, a little moreacademic-y, but it really does
try to tell the story of Hawaii,takata.
And so some people have told meyou know, hey, I don't normally
(30:09):
like academic books, but thishad a very narrative approach
and I learned so much aboutTakata and her life and her time
and I learned so much aboutTakata and her life and her time
and she's so much more of likea human being to me now.
So that's always nice to hear.
And then also, very recently,olaf Bum, b-o-h-m.
He's actually about torepublish his book through
(30:31):
Amazon because some of thedistribution international
distribution wasn't as goodoutside of Europe.
But his book is called Reiki AJourney to Oneness with the
Universe and also has a lot ofamazing historical resources in
there, things that neverappeared anywhere else before.
(30:52):
Olaf's been a big help, like inmy book Olaf, let me see all of
these historical sources thathe had collected.
So I've been very personallybenefited from his work.
I actually have sometranslations in his book as well
, and so, yeah, all of thosebooks.
Oh, and if I can mention onemore, the book that just came
out is the Tomita Kaiji.
(31:14):
It's called Reiki and theBenevolent Art of Healing, and
so that's a book that wasoriginally published in Japanese
in 1933.
And we just recently releasedthe translation of it.
And again, like, not everybodyis going to connect with every
(31:34):
aspect of Tomita's practice.
It involves long periods ofmeditation, you know, kneeling
for long periods of time, which,as someone who's, you know,
done Japanese meditation, I'lltell you your legs are going to
fall asleep.
And why am I doing this?
But, at the same time, I thinkthere's also a lot of amazing
resources in there about howearly Reiki was practiced.
So, yeah, I think there's alsoa lot of amazing resources in
(31:55):
there about how early Reiki waspracticed.
So, yeah, I think that was sixbooks.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So maybe that's more than you're looking for.
Thank you for sharing that.
Is there any other of yourbooks that you would like to
share as well?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I think it's really the alternate currents is
the one like real book lengththing that I have out right now.
But I'm working on a new one.
It's going to be like an editedvolume on Reiki and I'm
actually actively working onthat right now and hopefully
that'll be out from also from UHPress, university of Hawaii
Press, in the next year or two.
(32:26):
But yeah, the Tomita book justcame out.
I worked on that.
That was, yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And you were recently on our friends Colleen and
Robyn's podcast Reiki Lifestyles.
That goes into a little bitmore of a discussion with your
book, correct?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
The Tomita one yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It's beautiful, beautiful.
So if you want to go a littledeeper, check out Reiki
Lifestyles podcast with you onit.
So I think it's just out right,I think it was just the other
day.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Just the other day, right, I think it was just the
other day, just the other day,perfect, perfect timing,
wonderful, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So where can we find you?
If someone wants to go a littledeeper or find out about things
that you're going to announce,how do they connect with you?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We have two main places.
So one is on Facebook, is likemy most up to date things, you
know, new findings, events,talks like this.
I'll promote them all on myFacebook and it's Justin B Stein
Reiki Research.
It's kind of my public page sothat's definitely, if you're on
(33:26):
Facebook, a good follow, I think, for Reiki folks.
And then I also have a website,and then I also have a website,
justinsteinacademiaedu, and Ihave a lot of publications
(33:50):
available there from variousjournals and chapters, from
edited volumes, for folks whotalks I've given and so, yeah,
for folks who are interested inreading more of my stuff,
there's a lot of thingsavailable there for free,
beautiful, and I just lovehistory so much I just eat all
this up.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So thank you.
Thank you for all of your workand what you do for the Reiki
community.
It's really wonderful to getthat correct information out
there to those that arebeginning and those that are
currently, you know, sharingReiki with the world.
So that ends the first part ofour journey.
I'm going to pass you on to myco-guide, rose, that has some
questions for you.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I have a few questions, but I do also want to
say I'm very impressed with allthe work that you've done and
very grateful, because when Ifirst started or learned about
Reiki 30 years ago and practiced20 years ago, there wasn't a
lot out there.
So it really helps to kind of,you know, just create more of an
awareness and clarity aroundthe practice, which is beautiful
(34:41):
.
So I have some questions thatwere provided by listeners.
So one is recently, aroundApril or so, on your Facebook
page where you announceeverything you did, announce
some breaking news and thatthere's a series of documents
have recently been discovered.
Can you talk about and sharemore about that discovery?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Sure, yeah, and I'll mention a bit here.
But also, as Tracy mentioned, Ithink we go a little deeper
into it more time on Colin andRobin's Reiki Lifestyle Podcast.
So if people who want to hearmore about it, I definitely you
could check that out as well.
Um, but, but in short, um,these were really.
(35:20):
This is a really amazing find.
I think it's one of the mostsignificant um historical
discoveries about the life ofusui.
You know, probably in 20 years,30 years, like since, since the
memorial stone finding, in asense it is basically a
(35:41):
handwritten resume or CV ofUsui's life up to 1904.
And so 1904, he got hired inTaiwan, which was a Japanese
colony at the time, to work forthe colonial government,
(36:01):
studying Taiwanese law.
He had some law training beforeTaiwan became a Japanese colony
and as part of this hiringprocess he wrote out all of his
(36:23):
education, all the differentplaces where he studied, as well
as his work experience, andthere's a number of items in
there that resonateinterestingly and help
corroborate, maybe some aspectsof the story that Hawaii Okada
told of Usui in his life.
It's not 100% match to matchand also there's maybe a little
(36:45):
bit of missing time between itseems like he gets back from
Taiwan to Japan in 1911, andthen he starts teaching Reiki in
1922.
According to other accounts wehave, he was an intense Zen
practitioner for three yearsbefore Kurama.
So there's like 1911 to 1918,maybe this kind of you know now
(37:08):
black box or whatever.
But the fact that we have thatpre history is really
interesting.
And so some of the highlightsthere include that, for example,
that Usui came to the UnitedStates to study we know that,
you know that's part of theTakata story.
That's also on the memorialstone.
(37:39):
But specifically it seems thatUsui came to the US, it says, to
study philosophy and psychology, and psychology being a very
new science at the time, andthat he had studied previously
in Tokyo under this like topexperimental psychologist,
motora Yuji.
And it says that when he wentto the US he studied at the
Hawking School.
(38:00):
And we don't know what theHawking School was, but Motora
had studied at Johns Hopkinsunder at the time, you know, one
of the top experimentalpsychologists in the world at
Hopkins.
Now, unfortunately, that guyhad left by the time Usui went
(38:21):
to the United States and the guywho took his position hasn't
had his papers well archived.
I couldn't find any evidencethat Usui enrolled at Johns
Hopkins, but it's morebreadcrumbs on the trail about
like, where did Usui Senseistudy in the United States?
Like possibly in Baltimore?
So I'm going to try to keepworking on that.
And then, very interesting,after that he worked in San
(38:46):
Francisco, I think for about 18months at the Custom House in
San Francisco, probably helpingtranslate stuff for Japanese
people entering the UnitedStates at that time.
And so I'm actually in touchright now with the National
Archives to see what kinds ofdocuments exist from the San
Francisco Customs House from1899 to 1900, or, I forget, 1898
(39:11):
to 1899.
And so I'm waiting to hear backfrom them right now.
It's possible we'll find hispay stub or something you know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
How cool is that?
I mean, researching is so cool.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
It's a lot of time, but it's.
It's really fun.
It's a detective hunt.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And then when he got back to Japan, he was working
for a American women'smissionary society in Japan and
helped set up a school whichwould have been like a Christian
school in Tokyo for them andserved as the supervisor or like
(39:49):
the principal of the school,which, again in the Takata story
, she told it different ways anddifferent tellings.
You know, in some tellings hewas the president of Doshisha
University in Kyoto, but inother tellings he was the head
of a Christian boys' school.
And so this again I'm going totry to dig.
It seems a good fit would bethe Methodist church, which at
(40:11):
the time was called theMethodist Episcopal Church, and
they had a very strong women'sforeign missionary society.
They had a school in theneighborhood of Tokyo where Usui
Sensei started his school rightaround the same time.
The salaries and their budgetsseemed to match the salary on
his CV.
So he couldn't.
(40:32):
You know, was Usui Sensei aMethodist?
I don't know, but it seems thathe may have been.
You know, could have.
You know, was Usumi Sensei aMethodist?
I don't know, but it seems thathe may have been, you know,
teaching or you know supervisingat this Methodist school in
Tokyo in the early 20th century.
So again there's like thesekind of exciting, you know, for
people who are Reiki historynerds, this is big, this is big
time stuff.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I love it.
I love that.
This is great.
So the next question thank youfor that answer.
So one of the questions here isone of the lineages, of course,
that you come from is MadameTakata, which I think is awesome
because I think she's a rockstar.
To be honest with you, Most ofus are right.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I mean I'd say 90% of the Reiki practitioners in the
world at least.
I mean go back to Takata,takata, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I just love that she was so instrumental.
She was a female, you know thatbrought Reiki to the US.
I love that.
So, using the life and work ofHawaii Takata, why was her work
so important in the history ofReiki?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, I mean, without her Reiki would not be a global
phenomenon, right that she, youknow, brought it out of Japan.
You know where, before WorldWar II, usui de Kiryōho was
practiced by, I would say, tensof thousands of people in Japan.
Probably.
We have some evidence, somemember directories and things
(41:52):
like that.
I've never sat down and countedall the names, but the tens of
thousands, let's say.
But after World War II itreally declines and there would
still be, I would say, a fewhundred practitioners in Japan
today without Takata, but therewouldn't be a million people
around the world practicingReiki, or millions, we don't
(42:14):
know exactly how many.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Do you think it declined or do you think it just
wasn't um registered ordocumented?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I mean both.
I think, um, the, the societyhas been, I would say, somewhat
under the radar, uh, for a longtime and actually and it seems
like that was Usui and Hayashi'steaching was don't advertise,
don't you know?
Do this too publicly.
We don't you know, we can onlyspeculate about why.
(42:43):
But that that was recorded bypeople at the time, saying you
know, I'm writing this newspaperarticle about this amazing
therapy, but my teacher wouldn'tlike that.
I'm writing this because theydon't want it to be too public,
but it's so amazing I have totell the world about it, you
know.
So so yeah, it's, it'sdefinitely by design, been kind
of under the radar since thebeginning in Japan, but it also,
(43:07):
I think, the the overallnumbers of members of the
organization, I think, took anosedive in the post-war period,
but then, yeah.
So Takada, I mean, she's thereason all of us are doing Reiki
, she's the reason we're talkingabout Reiki.
So I think it's hard tooverestimate her importance for
the global history of Reiki.
(43:28):
And then she also did a lot ofcultural translation work where
she took a practice that may nothave been really accessible to
non-Japanese folks and figuredout how to make some changes to
make it a viable practice andalso part of what I argue in my
(43:50):
book is introduce some newteachings to try to make her
students and their students moreJapanese in certain ways.
So things around the importanceof reciprocity, right.
She added new teachings about,you know, the exchange of
energies.
She added a new you know Reikiprecept or ideal about honor
(44:11):
your parents, teachers andelders, which Japanese people
don't need to be taught right,but hippies, you know her 1970s
white, you know kind ofChristian upbringing, but
countercultural students didneed to be taught that right.
And so I think that she bothmade Reiki you know a worldwide
(44:32):
thing but also I think, helpedyou know, guide Reiki into a
particular direction that madeit more you know able to spread
and also, I think, helpedenculturate you know her
students to Japanese values in away by adding or adapting parts
of the practice.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, great, beautiful, by adding or adapting
parts of the practice.
Yeah, yeah, great, beautifuland uh.
The last question I have is inthe 1970s, madam takata placed
so she charged about tenthousand dollars for master
training, yeah, uh.
So now that you've studied herwork, do you view her placing
this cost for this training as away to just limit the modality
for people who were able toafford it?
Or for a way for her toself-persevere her energy,
(45:17):
because she lived to 90, versusUsui's passing of a stroke and
Usui working with over 2,000people then passing at the age
of 65 or perhaps a way toprovide an opportunity for more
devotion to her students?
So why do you think she charged$10,000 for training back then,
was it?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
no it's a great question.
I think there's a lot ofthere's a lot in that question.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, let's start with that.
Why do you think she?
Charged so much money.
Do you think she was just kindof saying it's only for people
that afford it or for peoplethat are really serious?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, the narratives around money like by Takata are
really interesting and I couldtalk for that, you know, for
another 45 minutes, I think, onthis topic, but I'll try to keep
it pretty brief.
So she definitely had thissense that you know you have to
give up something of value oryou're not going to value the
(46:16):
teaching, that it has to besignificant in order to bring
gratitude, the necessarygratitude, in the practitioner.
She really believed that.
You know, people believe thatyou get what you pay for and so
if you don't charge enough,people aren't really going to
value the teachings as much.
(46:38):
I think she also was buildingoff of her own experience with
her teacher.
She said that she had to sellher house in order to pay for
her teacher training and I thinkthat might be true.
I don't have like the smokinggun in terms of, but she did
sell her house around the timeof getting her master training
(47:01):
from Hayashi.
I don't know exactly how muchhe charged for Shinpiden, but I
think it was quite significant.
The Usui de Kirioho Gakkai hadquite significant fees for
becoming a member.
Now is part of that like anelitist classist, you know,
thing Like maybe they had a lotof upper class folks, because
(47:24):
they were the ones who couldafford it.
At the same time, it does seemthat in Japan, and also in
Takada's early practice, and youknow throughout her life there
was, I want to say, kind of likea sliding scale and adaptations
for folks who really wanted orneeded treatment or teaching but
(47:47):
couldn't quite make theprescribed, you know, fees.
In Japan it seems like therewere times where you would pay
for treatment and there weretimes where treatment was made
available for free.
It seems that in earlyUsui-riki-ryoho in Hawaii there
was the same thing, where therewere set fees for particular
(48:10):
types of treatment but, forexample, someone with chronic
illness who Takata wanted totreat every single day, they
weren't paying the same fee thatshe would charge for a normal
one hour treatment, you know,for 30 days in a row.
Right, there were arrangementsmade to make what she saw as the
best course of treatmentavailable for people who really
(48:31):
needed a lot of Reiki.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
It was bartering or something too.
There could have been a barterright.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Well yeah, and in some of her students I talk
about this in chapter three ofmy book some of her students
didn't charge any money, butthey were within the Japanese
American community that knowsyou don't just take stuff and
not have reciprocity.
And so people would bringwhether it's money, flowers,
food, beer, like there were allkinds of gifts that were given
(48:58):
to prominent Reiki practitionersin Hawaii throughout this
period when they didn't have setfees.
It was just kind of assumedlisten, I'm doing something for
you, you're going to repay me insome way, right?
That's just kind of part of theculture Now in terms of the
$10,000, just kind of part ofthe culture Now in terms of the
$10,000, she did havearrangements with some students
(49:19):
where, for example, they couldorganize classes for her and the
money from that classes wouldbe applied to the $10,000.
Rick Bachner I talk about in mybook.
You know he was a tree planter.
He was living in an off thegrid cabin that he had built
himself in the woods.
He had a baby, a new baby, andhis wife was pregnant.
(49:40):
He's like listen, I want it.
And she loved and she thoughthe was a very good student and
she really wanted him to be aReiki master and he was the
final Reiki master she initiatedbefore she passed.
And so she said OK, if you cangive me five,000 and organize
classes, that will add up toanother 5,000, that works.
(50:01):
And so, yeah, on the one hand, Ithink that she established
these high fees in part becauseof that's the way she had been
taught, in part because shereally believed that it made
someone really value what theywere receiving, and also in part
, I think, that she wasn't sucha stickler for the fees as maybe
(50:24):
she's sometimes portrayed.
That we know that, for example,she was teaching a class where
there were you know 10, 12, youknow people who were paying for
the class.
She would also initiate theorganizer's parents for free or
their children for free.
So we're told never give itaway for free.
(50:45):
Well, no, you know there areyou know loopholes.
Let's say, right, where it'slike okay, someone who's elderly
and they have a child who'spaying for the class, okay, I'll
throw in the elderly parent forfree, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, Well, I have to say, $10,000 is a lot of money,
even today.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
So yeah, oh, I mean, I have the, the uh inflation.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
I think it's more like a hundred thousand dollars
when she I, I, yeah, wow, that'sI'm glad some more I I'm glad
it became more affordable, um,so so the other part of it was,
you know, maybe it also was away to say how she valued her
own energy as well, because, Imean, she did live to 80 and she
(51:28):
didn't start out healthy onthis journey, but because of
reiki she was able to um live along life.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Hopefully one of the reasons she had a much better
work-life balance than usuisensei, for example that I think
with that person that he hedied young and and I think he
burned out like a, like a, youknow a hot flame kind of.
And Takata would always talkabout, she would carry her own
clubs to do nine holes of golf.
(51:56):
She was, I mean, into herseventies, late seventies.
I mean she was winning golftournaments.
She, you know, was a veryactive, which I think both you
know is showing her status righton some level.
Right, she's, you know, aJapanese lady, you know, in this
(52:17):
very white, dominated you knowkind of game in the us.
And then, but also her activityand her vitality, right, that
she um, uh, you know, was veryconscious of diet.
She um was into juicing, youknow, long time before most
folks were um, you know, she waslargely vegetarian but ate fish
, um, and occasion, like, Ithink, maybe once a week, she
(52:38):
liked lamb kidney whichapparently has some uh, kind of
yeah, certainly, yeah, yeah,yeah, but also like chinese
medicine.
I think has some connectionsthere.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, we need to have a movie about the life of times
of Takata.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
So a good friend of mine works for PBS and is Reiki
master in New York City and shehas been pushing an American
Masters PBS episode about Takata.
Oh, that would be great.
I would love to see that.
Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
And I want to say too , I want to circle back to
something you said aboutintegrating practices with
integrity.
I love that you said that,because one of the things that I
practice Reiki, but I'm also aQigong practitioner and I've
studied a lot of Qigong andlearning other ways to use
Qigong to heal and integratingthe two practices.
It's really powerful to do that.
And so, yeah, I know we, youknow we have Reiki, but there is
(53:35):
also other ways to inviteenergy and healing and it's it's
all wonderful and beautiful.
So, anyway, but thank you forthe answers to those questions
and yeah, so hand it off back toTracy.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
All right Actually can you jump in on that one?
That one last point that wasbriefly.
You know I've I've heard fromyou know, some people regarding
that point about also liketransparency, right, and so like
if you're going to be bringingsome other practice into Reiki,
to like let folks know aboutthat, like maybe like that's
(54:09):
also part of integrity and like,oh, yeah, yeah, that like
because some people are like oh,I'm doing reiki and then
they're, I don't know, doingshamanic practices or doing um,
whatever it is, and um, it'slike I think that's part of also
adds to some of the confusionlike what is reiki?
Is reiki about entities?
Is reiki about ascended masters?
Is reiki about, you know,angels?
(54:30):
And so that like to like havingthat kind of, I think, clarity
with people like hey, listen,you know this is my spiritual
path, and like it's not, youknow, I add this on to reiki or
something you know, that umhelps, I think, maybe hopefully
clarify things, because I thinkthere's a lot of, yeah, people
out there who are doing you know, I don't know, and maybe
(54:52):
angelic reiki, but don't call itangelic reiki and say, oh, this
is reiki or something you know.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, just be upfront about the whole thing.
I'd like to ask one morequestion, and I always ask
people who I about ask.
This question is like what isyour vision for reiki?
How do you see it evolving orchanging, or?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
yeah, I mean, that's a great question.
I think what rose sorry bros,what tracy had mentioned about,
um, the mainstreaming of reiki,that like, where um it has, you
know, become a word that youknow has become very pervasive
with, I mean, it's I don't knowagain which of these trends are
going to be long lasting, butpeople doing like asmr videos,
(55:31):
where it's like, you know, kindof like, put your phone next to
you while you do a meditationand allow me to send reiki
through the phone and through my, you know, um, you know,
healing vibrations of the,whatever you know, I mean that
does seem to be like one kind ofway where, like, reiki is
moving.
But I hope that, like as wetalked about, there's also this
kind of sense that like Reiki ismoving.
But I hope that, like as wetalked about, there's also this
(55:52):
kind of sense that like okay,you know, I just was writing
about this the other day Like,when you look up like hashtag
Reiki on Instagram, so manythings come up that really have
like very little to do withReiki, right About?
you know the.
Are you seeing these angelnumbers appearing?
You know nine, nine, nine, andit's like is this Reiki?
(56:13):
Like.
You know 999, and it's like isthis reiki, like you know?
But hashtag reiki, right like?
Or um, you know different stuffout there that we're like.
I think I hope that the future,that the what makes like reiki
particular and special, isn'tkind of lost in this kind of
generalization of reiki as justlike another term for the
vibrations of the universe.
Like well on some level it isthe vibrations of the universe.
(56:35):
It's also a particular type ofpractice, and so I hope that the
future of Reiki both continuesto see the mainstreaming of it
that you know, the integrationof it into biomedical spaces, I
think can be really great, andwe've seen, you know, hospitals
all over the world kind of, Ithink, taking up more things
like that but also that itdoesn't just become this generic
(56:55):
name for everything right forany kind of spiritual practice I
think.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
but I think it's because of people like
yourselves who are doingresearch and, you know, really
getting that information outthere and saying this is, you
know, this is real.
So I think people like yourselfwill maintain, help maintain
that integrity of the practice,and people like Tracy who are
doing this and bringing peoplelike yourselves on.
So that's just my two cents.
I think that is wonderful workthat you're doing, so thank you.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
From your lips to God's ears, you know.
So, as we come to finish ourtime together as we've been
talking, is there anything thatyou might have forgotten about,
(57:44):
something that you want to share?
The floor is yours, I think youknow.
It seems like a lot of thefocus of the show is for
practitioners, for newpractitioners getting their
grounding, and so, because I'mnot a Reiki master, I'm only a
level two practitioner and Iteach about Reiki, I lead people
in, you know, sometimes Reikimeditations and things like that
(58:04):
, but I don't have my own Reikistudents and sometimes I think I
get a little bit like am Ireally the right person to be
answering all these questions?
Sometimes I think I get alittle bit like am I really the?
right person to be answering allthese questions, but at the
same time, yeah, I just I hopemy perspective is helpful for
your listeners and, yeah, justthanks for having me Absolutely,
just so you know you are,because it's all lineages, all
levels.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Everyone is a teacher .
Everyone you meet is a teacherand will teach you something new
.
So whether someone is thatcurious beginner to the seasoned
master teacher, I mean, youtaught me a couple things today.
I had always heard that storyabout Madam Takata charging as
much as you would be for a houseright in Hawaii, but I didn't
even connect that she sold herown home, because what I was
(58:46):
taught is that she worked forHitoshi in the clinic, so it
never even connected that thatwas the possibility that she
paid for um hatashi and her inthe clinic, so it never even
connected that that was thepossibility that she paid for
for this.
So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yeah, I think her apprenticeship, you know she
lived with the hayashi's um andso, yeah, she was like the uchi
deshi, you know, living withthem.
But I don't think thatnecessarily paid for her her
training fees and things likethat as well.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
Okay and also, well, there was something else he said
oh yeah, the the thing abouteveryone being, but I don't
think that necessarily paid forher training fees and things
like that as well.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Ok, and also there was something else you said.
Oh, yeah, the thing abouteveryone being your teacher.
I heard my friend Diane, who Imentioned before, the one who
works in New York City.
She, I think, usui Shiki Ryohoand you have the Takata style
precepts or ideals about honoryour parents, teachers and
(59:36):
elders, and some people have avery big blockage with that.
And, um, you know what, if youknow you've been in bad
relationships with people, thatthat you know that it's not only
the people you know literallyyou're like parents and you know
literally your teachers, butthat everyone around you on some
level is kind of helping givebirth to a new you, is helping
(59:58):
teach you, and so that it's.
You know, the teachers as wellhave to learn from our students,
learn from our colleagues, and,yeah, that we we really have to
honor, you know, everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Well, thank you, justin, so much for taking time
out of your very, very busyschedule to join us, rose, thank
you as well, rose.
Do you want to tell ourlisteners once again where they
can find you?
just rose whoopagecom and mypodcast is chat off the mat and
make sure to check out reikilifestyles as well, because
justin's featured on that aswell.
It goes a little bit deeper.
Well, thank you everyone forjoining us on this journey.
(01:00:32):
If you'd like your questionfeatured on the podcast, reach
out.
You'll find it atwwwreadysetrickycom.
Check out social media or sendme an email.
I'm Tracy Seawright and thishas been Ready.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Set.
Copyright © 2020 Mooji MediaLtd.
All Rights Reserved.
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