Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to real beauty with FD.
This is episode four of seasonsix, and this will be part two
of our conversation with AmandaGATS.
Who is the CEO and founder ofhouse of wise.
And just to quote the awesomewebsite, one more time, the
house roles.
(00:22):
Better sleep.
Less dress, hotter, sex, morestrength.
Stay wise.
And my gosh, I love it.
It's such an incredible brand.
Um, and it was such a blessingbeing able to speak with.
Amanda and pick her brains.
So without further ado, I ain'tgoing to dive straight into this
(00:44):
episode.
And I hope you all have a greatweek.
And if you were in Houston, Ipray as I record this on Sunday
evening, the rain stops.
And we have some semi niceweather for the week ahead,
although I have already lookedand it seems like it's just
going to rain relentlessly thisweek.
(01:06):
So Houstonians.
Stay dry.
FRANCENE (01:12):
I do love everything about the House of Wise website.
Again, it's very like slick, um,very educational.
Um, but I especially love someof the phrases that's being kind
of sprinkled in, like, um, whereit says, unlike your toxic X,
um, we keep it honest andtransparent, which I love.
(01:33):
So how have you found balancingbuilding this brand and company.
while balancing that life ofbeing a mom.
Um, and I definitely, like Imentioned, like I appreciate it.
I can only imagine it's notbeing easy.
Um, and how, you know, kindataking a love determination, how
do you prioritize your
AMANDA (01:53):
time?
Yeah, so I think the first thingI had to unlearn is that there
is not, I, I'm not going to dothings like everyone else.
Um, and that's okay.
So pre covid, I ha was goingthrough the, the divorce already
and my kids were super, superyoung.
(02:15):
And if for anybody that hasyoung kids, they know.
your kids go to bed so early?
Yes, they'll wake up at likenine or 10:00 PM but my kids
were like 6, 6 30 bedtimeroutines.
Yeah.
And, and I was breastfeeding andall the things, right.
So I would leave work at fourbecause I was like, I only get
my kids, you know, half of thetime.
(02:36):
Plus, I like, they go to bedearly, so I'm gonna leave work
at like 3 30, 4 o'clock.
And I remember that was like,got a lot of heat, right?
Because people were like, well,why does she get to leave at
three 30 or four?
Mm-hmm.
and it was all around aligningwith my.
what are my goals and like whatdo I need to accomplish?
(02:56):
What are, what does success looklike?
And I will, I will hit that.
Like, you tell me what you needme to do and I will do it, but I
need this flexibility.
And this is pre covid now.
I think Covid has shaken thingsup and allowed people to, to
integrate their work in life.
But above everything else, it'slike I'm going to create.
(03:20):
A life that works for me.
And the cool thing is there areno set rules anymore.
And so you can truly, truly askfor what you need to make it
work.
And the worst thing that canhappen is someone says no to you
and then you go and you keepasking for what you need to
(03:41):
multiple people.
And finally someone will give itto you because they value you
and what you can do.
And so that's like, that hasbeen the new lens at which I
look at everything.
It's like, how do.
Do something that maybe looksand feels and sounds different,
but it works.
And so that then leads into Ihave this luxury of building a
(04:02):
company from scratch with abunch of women who, you know,
are looking for this newapproach to how work should work
or, or an integrated approach.
we have what's called like a 7030, 70% async, 30% synced work
week schedule.
(04:22):
And basically what that means isonly 30% of our week is, you
know, synced in person or, ormeetings, et cetera.
And, uh, outside of that, Idon't care how much you work,
it's truly around.
you, we have a very clear goalsetting schedule where you know
(04:43):
what your goals are for thatweek.
We've aligned on how you'regoing to report tho into those
goals.
Mm-hmm.
and the strategy you're using tohit those goals.
And then I don't care when youwork and we have a lot of like
fractional employees who aredoing the work in the best in
their own time and.
(05:05):
is very uncomfortable in theworld where we live in, in, in
the ecosystem.
We, we exist in.
we're a VC backed company, andso the, they're trying VC
landscape is all around, uh,pattern recognition.
Mm-hmm.
they want to put you in a pilethat looks like this other pile
(05:27):
so they can say, okay, yourexpected return should be this,
or you should be growing at thisrate.
And it's hard for people to.
Look at us and say, well, how doI know you're working as hard,
you know, quotation marks likeas hard as these other people
(05:49):
because you know, you haveemployees that are posting like
with their kids at the parkduring the day and whatnot, and
at the end of the day, likewe're growing, we're up 200%
year over year.
And so it's, I just always bringit back to.
What really matters?
Cause I don't, I don't careabout optics.
Like I truly don't.
(06:09):
And I, I post that I'm at thepool during the day because my
kids are at school and I need abreak.
And like, truly, truly, it'sabout shedding and like the
thing we started with, sheddingthe like notion that you have to
care what other people'sperception of the way you're
living your life.
FRANCENE (06:29):
You, Janelle, that is, I wish there was more people
like you in, I mean, everywhere.
Um, but I work in energy and,you know, it's a very kind of
corporate setting.
Um, and although we haveflexibility, um, I, it would
definitely be awesome to havethis type of empowerment knowing
(06:53):
that.
You know, to me, I can see mypeers kinda working, you know,
whatever, like eight till five,staying late, and I go in, I get
what I need to get done, andthen I leave.
Like similar to you.
I'm like, I wanna be able topick up my kid, I wanna be able
to go to the park, have fun, andI do not get on my laptop in the
(07:14):
evening.
Like I very much maximize mytime and to me, Sometimes I'm
like, just because you'reputting in the hours, it doesn't
necessarily mean that you'rebringing in that quality.
Yeah.
Or the amount of chit chat orcoffees or, you know, whatever
else.
Um, but I think to be able tocreate that empowerment around
(07:38):
you where you're like, this isthe goal.
It's up to you how you.
Like, I'm here to help, but it'sup to you.
Use your time wisely.
Right.
I think, yeah.
And knowing women, let's behonest, we, you know, in some
cases we definitely work harderin some scenarios and.
You know, I've worked incorporate for however many
(08:00):
years, but I kicked off mycareer when I was 17.
I worked offshore and I was theonly female for years.
Um, and I always felt like I hadto work harder.
All the guys would be, you know,chilling out and I'd be trying
to learn something and I wouldalways go above and beyond.
A part of me is like, well, itstayed with me.
(08:21):
I continue to like bust my ass.
Cause I, you know, I, I want tostrive, but I'm also like,
imagine if we just all startedon the same playing field.
Imagine if it was all equal andwe didn't have to feel the need
to bring more.
And I think especially whenyou're a mom, you then think,
okay, well now I need to bringmore cuz they're gonna think I'm
(08:44):
not serious about my career andI.
I hate that, especially inAmerica.
I feel like it's a, it's a lotdifferent here, the way we view
women and we're like, oh, great,she's pregnant.
Awesome.
Yeah, that's it, that's it forher career.
And you're like, no, no, no, no.
We can do this
AMANDA (09:02):
Yeah.
So the way I, I, as I get older,I, I, I try to just like go back
to.
Facts and, and keep it in databecause I think once we, once we
assign gender to something, itcauses an emotional reaction.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so all of a sudden, like,like men are like, oh, here we
(09:24):
go again.
This is about like, uh,whatever, right?
And so, yeah, I teach a class onefficiency and I, I'll like go
through this and I'll be like,okay, let's talk about
Parkinson's law.
It's, it's about the fact thatwhatever time you allot to an
activity, you will fill it withthat activity.
And so we have allotted, youknow, a 10 or eight to 10 hour
(09:48):
workday based on industrialrevolution times.
We have been given eight to 10hours to be at work.
So we will fill that eight to 10hours with chatting with our
friends on Slack, with you know,whatever.
We will expand to whatever time.
And so I teach efficiency andI'll be like, Set a timer, say,
(10:13):
I need to create this deck andI'm giving myself 70 minutes to
do it, and I'm gonna create theoutline today, and then tomorrow
I'm gonna make it look prettyand the next day I'm going to
proof it, add more concepts andI'll have a deck done in, you
know, 210 minutes over the spanof three days.
Yeah.
And like I teach people like youwill then get it done because,
(10:37):
you know, you only have 70minutes.
And I think intuitively goingback to what you said women
have, you know, w when you lookat the number of invisible labor
hours that are assigned to womenversus men, um, obviously this
is a very heteronormative wewe're taking.
Account, like single dads, etcetera, which I think, yeah,
don't have enough credit, butit's like, okay, if we look at
(10:59):
the macro scale we have.
Both work and, you know,childcare and all these things
that are, are on our plates.
And so we naturally do it.
And so if we teach everyone todo this, then we're equipping an
entire society with the, the,the tools they need to get more
(11:20):
done and less time so that itfrees up.
I, I think, removing men fromthis conversation.
time, et cetera.
We're doing all of ourselves adisservice because if we could
let them get their work done inless time too, they're now open
to say, well, what would I dowith that extra time?
(11:41):
And how can I Yeah.
Like, you know, pick the kids upfrom school and go, et cetera.
So I, I, I push like, I used toonly talk to women about this
stuff, and then I was like,well, we, we know how to do
this.
Like it's innate.
And so now I teach like a lot ofpeople how to, to think about
their time in such a way that'struly, truly outcome oriented so
(12:03):
that everyone can be freed upto, to have more hours to do
what they want to be doing.
And that want can be decided,you know, based on what's
important to them.
Yeah.
And it
FRANCENE (12:16):
also, I mean, that's a great way of thinking about it
and I really need to put thatinto practice.
Um, especially when it comes toyour example of presentations,
that's probably where Iprocrastinate the most.
I'll literally leave it to thelast minute and I'm like, oh, I
hate doing presentations.
Um, but yeah, I think it's.
(12:38):
Setting that goal of completingsomething.
So then you're like, this meansI can leave early and I can go
see my friends.
I can go to happy hour or I cango to the park, or whatever it
is.
But I think that timeallocation, because we've been
so conditioned with that hoursof, you know, this is when you
(12:59):
need to be at work.
And I think, you know,mentioning this kinda.
You know, post covid lifestylewhere there is more flexibility.
You have so many people beinglike, but we've been so used to,
yeah, the eight to five.
Like now, what do you mean?
You can leave earlier?
You can flex your schedule.
(13:20):
And I think we have such adisjointed in the workforce
right now, where you have theyounger generation being like,
this is great.
We're working from home.
They trust us, and you have.
I'm obviously generalizing theolder generation, they're like,
whoa, why are you working fromhome?
You should be here.
You should be seen.
(13:40):
Why are you grabbing a coffee?
Why are you leaving early?
That it's,
AMANDA (13:43):
um, Well, we, we, like the shift happened.
It was literally like one day wewere working in an office.
The next day we worked fromhome, and so there was no
transition period.
And so then it was like you hadan entire group of, of people
being like, well, This has anexpiration date and we're going
(14:05):
back to normal, and, and nowwe're seeing it did, that didn't
happen.
And now there's a lot of hybrid.
But yeah.
What happened during the time ofcovid was developing tools to
create the, the things thathappen in an office, uh, because
there is the, the, the hallwaychats sometimes.
(14:28):
Brew ideas or they, um, theyallow for less one-on-one time,
you know, meeting times.
And now all of a sudden it'slike, well, how do we prevent
everybody from being on Zoom allday so that they can still get
the work done, but still allowfor those kind of spontaneous
interactions?
And so we, we instituted whatwas called a synced, um, slack
(14:51):
time.
Where everyone has to be onSlack for about 90 minutes on a
Tuesday, and we do a round robinwhere, and everybody can see
it's transparency.
Now granted, we have a team ofless than 10 people, so that
makes this so much easier than abig corporation.
But you can imagine, yeah, likeif you need cross-functional
(15:11):
alignment, it's like, okay, so.
Let's have marketing and productdo a synced slack time where the
product managers are talking tothe marketing managers and, and
they're just like at pinging abunch of questions back and
forth, but then everybody hasline of sight into what the
questions are.
It's like, Hey, how's that newproduct coming along?
I'm, I'm a little concernedabout this feature.
(15:32):
Can you talk like blah, blah,blah, blah.
And that's like the hallwayconversation.
But now the best part is it'stransparent because everybody
can see that slack message.
So it's actually.
Elating a lot of the, the stuff.
So I think I, I'm a very like,solutions oriented type of mind,
and so I'm like, okay, we justneed to create solutions for
(15:56):
this transition from all at, uh,all at the office to all at
home.
And I think once we do that, wecan speak to the generation
that.
Okay.
What's your fear?
I always like, that's my biggestquestion about anything.
Yeah.
When someone comes back onsomething like, what are you
fearing right now?
Like what, what, what do youfeel like is going to get lost?
(16:18):
Let's sulfur that versus justlike beating your hands down and
saying, we must be in theoffice.
Like, why?
Yeah.
You're
FRANCENE (16:26):
like, why?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what is the
AMANDA (16:28):
purpose?
You just chip away at that.
Like, I feel like a lot ofthings will be better in this
world if we.
like get curious about whysomeone feels the way that they
do.
And then once you peel back kindof the layers of that, you can
start to solve for those andthen you make progress.
But I think we're, we're rightnow in a weird stage where
(16:53):
everybody feels so passionateabout their beliefs and they're
holding them so closed handedthat we are not stopping to just
have conversations.
Yeah, it's true.
FRANCENE (17:05):
Or stopping to be open enough to listen and hear the
other person's perspective andthink, okay, I understand why
you're feeling that way.
Let's compromise.
Whereas I agree, I agree.
There's definitely a lot ofemotions.
Slightly Yeah, a lot of peopledefinitely jumping on the
(17:28):
defense and everything's very.
Um, like us versus them kind ofthing.
Right, exactly.
Um, okay.
So I do have one more questionand then we'll kick into the
quick fire rounds.
So, um, for all the womenlistening to this, can you
provide advice on what you feelis needed in order to be
(17:52):
successful?
AMANDA (17:57):
So in order to be successful, you truly have to
love yourself.
Like, and, and be your ownpartner.
Be your own hype person when yougo into a room, like I was the
youngest VP in the corporate,like in my corporate setting.
(18:17):
Um, and that came with a lot oflike, oh, What are they talking
about me?
Do they not feel like I deservethis role, et cetera, et cetera.
And, and there's a ton of likeconversations you can have in
your head.
You have to truly stand in yourknowledge, in your expertise, in
(18:38):
your growth, and, and f.
Feel worthy of whatever placethat you are in.
Same with relationships.
Like if you wanna have asuccessful relationship, you
need to be a whole human, andthe other person needs to be a
whole human.
You have to have done your workto know what you bring to the
table, to know what your gapsare, to know what your triggers
(18:58):
are, and, and stand in that.
And then you're not trying toearn someone else's love because
you, you know that.
Complete without it.
And so everything comes back tolike this completeness in
yourself.
And that to me has been the workthat has, I think, catapulted me
(19:19):
over the last couple of years inmy career, in my personal life,
um, as a mom.
Um, I'm not trying to earnthings.
I'm, I'm comp, you know, sandingin my completeness.
FRANCENE (19:33):
I love that.
That is a great, great answer.
Um, Yeah, I think we all need tobe like that.
I definitely, a lot of timeswe'll have like imposter
syndrome and think I shouldn'tbe here, I don't deserve to be
here.
Or why is that person my friend?
Um, and it's, I really try andsnap out it and again, I feel
(19:55):
the older I get, the moreconfident I become in myself.
Um, but I feel we all need tojust do that check sometimes,
even if it's just before you gointo the office or before you
start your workday or before yougot for drinks and be like, no,
I, I deserve to be here becauseof X, Y, Z.
It's like, we need to do our ownKinda walking like hide Yeah.
AMANDA (20:20):
Well, okay.
And then the last thing I'll sayon this topic is, Bring our
brains there.
There's a thing called thenegativity bias.
Our brains are wired and it, ittakes, it takes you back to the
evolution days of cavemen andstuff, but our brains are wired
to a nine to one negativitybias.
Meaning for every one positivething, you may think, you'll
(20:43):
think nine negative things.
That that is how our brain iswired.
And if you think about why, froman evolutionary standpoint, it
was probably to protectyourself, you have to think
about like, oh, this isn't justa beautiful spot to like build a
family or a truck or whatever.
It's like, oh, we're close tothis, you know, potential fault
line or, or this kind of animalthat could, or whatever.
(21:04):
You had to constantly bethinking about what could go
wrong.
Well, that has stayed in ourbrains, and so just know that
when you're thinking negativethoughts, you have to
intentionally rewire your brainto say positive things because
it's.
it's baseline is nine to onenegative to positive.
(21:25):
And that's not anyone's fault.
That's just how we were evolvedas creatures.
And so that's why like I used tobe like, oh, gratitude
journaling is so silly.
Like, I don't need to do that.
But now that I know the, thedata and the science behind it,
I'm like, oh no, I have tobecause I have to rewire my
brain to be thinking not apositive thing.
(21:46):
So when you're going into ameeting, And you feel that
imposter syndrome, reframe itas, oh, my brain's wiring is
nine to one, so now I've gottashift that.
So yes, I'm a little nervous.
I don't feel like I have to, youknow, I've earned my place to be
at this thing.
I don't feel like I know as muchas these other people.
Okay, well, shit, I just thoughtof three negative things.
(22:08):
I'm gonna double that and try tothink of six positive things.
Like, oh, I've done the researchon this thing.
I, I feel really confident intalking about this aspect.
Like I've.
You know, 15 years to get intothis meeting, like give yourself
that rewiring, and now you'relike, okay, it's not about
gratitude anymore.
It's like about I have a shortcircuit and I need to fix it.
FRANCENE (22:29):
Yeah.
It's like you're just poweringyourself back to be like, hold
on.
Wait mind.
I know I can do this.
Right.
Um, but no, that is greatadvice.
Um, I definitely could ask youanother like 30 questions, but
anyway, let's go into the round.
Um, so just tell me whateverpops into your head.
(22:50):
So your favorite cocktail?
AMANDA (22:53):
I don't drink a lot, um, but if I do, uh, I am, I love a
good like old fashion.
FRANCENE (23:01):
Oh yeah.
I love an old fashioned, yeah,I, I'm the same.
I don't drink that much.
Um, I'm also the biggestlightweight, which is why I
don't drink a lot.
So I kinda don't help myself butI can only have one.
And that is enough But I love anold fashioned, um, who would
(23:22):
play you in a movie?
AMANDA (23:25):
Oh gosh.
I mean, if I had to pick acharacter that I feel the most,
like, it'd be like Mrs.
Maisel, but like, I'd be MissMrs.
Maisel personified as likesomeone else.
But, um, like I, I think likean.
Emma Stone or someone like thatwho's like a little quirky says
what's on our mind.
(23:45):
Yeah, I'm a little awkward too,so like, I'm sure that would
come into play.
I don't know.
Something like that.
Emma
FRANCENE (23:53):
Stone's a good one.
Um, what is your favoritenumber?
AMANDA (23:57):
23.
It was my basketball number andI'm from Illinois and I was a
big Michael Jordan fan and it, Isee 23 all the time.
Oh, I
FRANCENE (24:05):
love that.
That's a good one.
It's interesting cuz of course,as Michael Jordan, but it makes
me instantly think of OnetreeHill.
I dunno if he ever watched that.
Yeah.
But um, that was their nu such agood show.
Um, anyway, um, if you were asex say character, who would you
be?
AMANDA (24:24):
So, I'm.
A mix between Carrie andSamantha, cuz I have no filter
when it comes to sexuality, etcetera.
But I'm a hopeless romantic.
Like I truly, truly, um, want tofind my partner.
And I, I feel like I have, I'm,I'm now recently dating someone
new and, um, like I, I, that ismy driver.
(24:46):
Like I, I think for me, I.
Sex is the best when I have anemotional connection with the
person.
And I like, I don't know ifanybody knows the term bisexual,
but that is truly what I am,like my, my sexual drive comes
from emotional connection.
Um, and so yeah, I, I definitelyfeel like the, the mix of Carrie
(25:08):
and Samantha, cause I just haveno filter too.
So that's why I said theSamantha.
FRANCENE (25:13):
Yeah, I mean I dream of having that little piece of
snap in me, but I'm soCharlotte.
It's unbelievable.
I'm definitely on like the prudeand honestly, it's through doing
this podcast, I've interviewed,um, someone that specializes in
sex in sex therapy.
(25:34):
Yeah, it has been.
Awesome to talk about it.
The more I speak about it, morecomfortable I become, but it is
crazy how much like my pans willlike sweat up when we talk about
it and I'm like, oh, I'm so, I'mso Charlotte.
Um, okay.
If you could pick only twoskincare products, what would
they be?
AMANDA (25:54):
So, I would definitely say like I now with our, our
serum, I don't wanna just saylike, I, I use that every day
and it's like now kind ofreplaced a couple of my other
ones I'm gonna say.
So I use Vaseline a lot.
Yeah.
(26:15):
I do like, it's if I could onlyhave something that's in my
arsenal, I have very combo skin,so I use Vaseline, um, like over
things or, or just alone.
And it's so cheap.
And so I feel like that's likeprobably number one.
And then number two, uh, like askin pharmaceuticals retinol,
(26:36):
like that transformed my skinimmensely.
So if I had those two things, Iwould be like, set for life.
FRANCENE (26:44):
Yeah.
I mean, Vaseline is definitelyone of those products that you
can use so much.
Yeah, so much for like,everything.
Um, what is the best complimentyou've ever gotten?
AMANDA (27:00):
Best compliment I've ever gotten.
I mean, whenever someonecompliments you on motherhood
hits in like a new way, like.
Beauty fades.
Like businesses come and go,like my identity is not wrapped
up in in, or at least I'm tryingto unlearn that my identity is
(27:23):
wrapped up in any of thoseperformance-based metrics.
And when someone meets my kidsand says something about my
children, to me, it's not even acompliment to me.
If they're polite or they helpsomeone or they're like that.
(27:45):
If I, if I'm raising kids whowill try to make the world a
little bit better and moreloving and and less divisive,
then to me that's the bestcompliment because that's my,
like, legacy.
You know?
That's what's gonna last waybeyond.
Hopefully, you know, my timehere.
So I think it the, that's whatreally like lights.
(28:07):
Yeah, that's a great
FRANCENE (28:08):
way to think about him.
It's always nice when your kidsare polite, Yeah, I'm forever
striving for that.
My daughter can sometimes be alittle bit shy and when new
people come up to her, she willgo quiet and I'm like, no, no.
Say hi Yeah, like it's okay tosay hi.
(28:28):
My, my middle.
Also like stranger in danger.
Danger.
AMANDA (28:32):
Right.
My middle is really shy and sowe have a lot of talks on, you
know, what do you feel when, youknow, you meet new people and
it's like, oh yeah.
You know, sometimes like, cuzI'm an extrovert and so is my
oldest daughter and so her twomodels that are like, I could
talk to a tree for an hour, andso she.
I'm like, you know what?
(28:53):
There's lots of people that, youknow, when they first meet
people, they, they're quiet, andthen maybe there's a question
you could ask.
That's like how I frame it.
It's like, here's a question youcan ask them, like, what's your
favorite color?
And so that way they, she feelsequipped to like ask them a
question because then it'll getthem talking.
I was like, the best part whenyou don't wanna talk is like get
(29:15):
the other person talking so thatyou don't have to talk.
Yeah.
But I totally feel that's mymiddle.
Literally like you can feel herjust like retreating behind my
legs to be like, I don't wannasee anyone.
FRANCENE (29:28):
Yeah, it is, it is wild as they grow their like
personalities.
Um, and then once they're outthere, you're like, okay, you
can come back in You're good.
That's enough.
Um, okay.
And what is your life motto orfavorite fa um, phrase that you
live by?
AMANDA (29:48):
Um, I have on my like wall, I have a couple things.
Like I have, life is tough, butso are you like, at the end of
the day, like it's choose,you're tough.
Like everything is, there's noeasy path in anything.
And so I, I, I really do settleon the fact that like, Not going
to the gym is hard.
Going to the gym is hard.
(30:08):
Like, yeah, you know, building acompany is hard, but working for
a company is hard.
Like it's just choosing yourhard and knowing that you can do
either of them and, and so Ithink that one, I, I think about
a lot.
I love it.
FRANCENE (30:24):
That's perfect.
Thank you so much, Amanda, forjoining me.
Um, I've very much appreappreciate this conversation and
everything you've accomplishedand also just the space that
you're trying to.
Great so well for women and tobe able to have these
conversations so openly, um, isvery inspiring and I know, I
(30:46):
hope my listeners willappreciate it too.
But please go check out House ofWise, um, as I mentioned, I have
been using, um, the face serum,so I'll post more about it on my
Instagram page.
And, you know, we mentioned somemore of their products, so
please go have a look.
Um, but yeah.
Thank you so much, Amanda.
AMANDA (31:05):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate thisconversation and all the, the
topics that you cover on thispodcast.
So thank you so much for doingit.
FRANCENE (31:13):
Yeah, anytime.
And I hope you enjoy your timein Chicago.
Um, and I will let you know oncethis goes
AMANDA (31:19):
live.
Awesome.
Thank you, Franc.
FRANCENE (31:22):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
Welcome to real beauty with FD.
This is episode four of seasonsix, and this will be part two
of our conversation with AmandaGATS.
Who is the CEO and founder ofhouse of wise.
And just to quote the awesomewebsite, one more time, the
house roles.
(00:22):
Better sleep.
Less dress, hotter, sex, morestrength.
Stay wise.
And my gosh, I love it.
It's such an incredible brand.
Um, and it was such a blessingbeing able to speak with.
Amanda and pick her brains.
So without further ado, I ain'tgoing to dive straight into this
(00:44):
episode.
And I hope you all have a greatweek.
And if you were in Houston, Ipray as I record this on Sunday
evening, the rain stops.
And we have some semi niceweather for the week ahead,
although I have already lookedand it seems like it's just
going to rain relentlessly thisweek.
(01:06):
So Houstonians.
Stay dry.
FRANCENE (01:12):
I do love everything about the House of Wise website.
Again, it's very like slick, um,very educational.
Um, but I especially love someof the phrases that's being kind
of sprinkled in, like, um, whereit says, unlike your toxic X,
um, we keep it honest andtransparent, which I love.
(01:33):
So how have you found balancingbuilding this brand and company.
while balancing that life ofbeing a mom.
Um, and I definitely, like Imentioned, like I appreciate it.
I can only imagine it's notbeing easy.
Um, and how, you know, kindataking a love determination, how
do you prioritize your
AMANDA (01:53):
time?
Yeah, so I think the first thingI had to unlearn is that there
is not, I, I'm not going to dothings like everyone else.
Um, and that's okay.
So pre covid, I ha was goingthrough the, the divorce already
and my kids were super, superyoung.
(02:15):
And if for anybody that hasyoung kids, they know.
your kids go to bed so early?
Yes, they'll wake up at likenine or 10:00 PM but my kids
were like 6, 6 30 bedtimeroutines.
Yeah.
And, and I was breastfeeding andall the things, right.
So I would leave work at fourbecause I was like, I only get
my kids, you know, half of thetime.
(02:36):
Plus, I like, they go to bedearly, so I'm gonna leave work
at like 3 30, 4 o'clock.
And I remember that was like,got a lot of heat, right?
Because people were like, well,why does she get to leave at
three 30 or four?
Mm-hmm.
and it was all around aligningwith my.
what are my goals and like whatdo I need to accomplish?
(02:56):
What are, what does success looklike?
And I will, I will hit that.
Like, you tell me what you needme to do and I will do it, but I
need this flexibility.
And this is pre covid now.
I think Covid has shaken thingsup and allowed people to, to
integrate their work in life.
But above everything else, it'slike I'm going to create.
(03:20):
A life that works for me.
And the cool thing is there areno set rules anymore.
And so you can truly, truly askfor what you need to make it
work.
And the worst thing that canhappen is someone says no to you
and then you go and you keepasking for what you need to
(03:41):
multiple people.
And finally someone will give itto you because they value you
and what you can do.
And so that's like, that hasbeen the new lens at which I
look at everything.
It's like, how do.
Do something that maybe looksand feels and sounds different,
but it works.
And so that then leads into Ihave this luxury of building a
(04:02):
company from scratch with abunch of women who, you know,
are looking for this newapproach to how work should work
or, or an integrated approach.
we have what's called like a 7030, 70% async, 30% synced work
week schedule.
(04:22):
And basically what that means isonly 30% of our week is, you
know, synced in person or, ormeetings, et cetera.
And, uh, outside of that, Idon't care how much you work,
it's truly around.
you, we have a very clear goalsetting schedule where you know
(04:43):
what your goals are for thatweek.
We've aligned on how you'regoing to report tho into those
goals.
Mm-hmm.
and the strategy you're using tohit those goals.
And then I don't care when youwork and we have a lot of like
fractional employees who aredoing the work in the best in
their own time and.
(05:05):
is very uncomfortable in theworld where we live in, in, in
the ecosystem.
We, we exist in.
we're a VC backed company, andso the, they're trying VC
landscape is all around, uh,pattern recognition.
Mm-hmm.
they want to put you in a pilethat looks like this other pile
(05:27):
so they can say, okay, yourexpected return should be this,
or you should be growing at thisrate.
And it's hard for people to.
Look at us and say, well, how doI know you're working as hard,
you know, quotation marks likeas hard as these other people
(05:49):
because you know, you haveemployees that are posting like
with their kids at the parkduring the day and whatnot, and
at the end of the day, likewe're growing, we're up 200%
year over year.
And so it's, I just always bringit back to.
What really matters?
Cause I don't, I don't careabout optics.
Like I truly don't.
(06:09):
And I, I post that I'm at thepool during the day because my
kids are at school and I need abreak.
And like, truly, truly, it'sabout shedding and like the
thing we started with, sheddingthe like notion that you have to
care what other people'sperception of the way you're
living your life.
FRANCENE (06:29):
You, Janelle, that is, I wish there was more people
like you in, I mean, everywhere.
Um, but I work in energy and,you know, it's a very kind of
corporate setting.
Um, and although we haveflexibility, um, I, it would
definitely be awesome to havethis type of empowerment knowing
(06:53):
that.
You know, to me, I can see mypeers kinda working, you know,
whatever, like eight till five,staying late, and I go in, I get
what I need to get done, andthen I leave.
Like similar to you.
I'm like, I wanna be able topick up my kid, I wanna be able
to go to the park, have fun, andI do not get on my laptop in the
(07:14):
evening.
Like I very much maximize mytime and to me, Sometimes I'm
like, just because you'reputting in the hours, it doesn't
necessarily mean that you'rebringing in that quality.
Yeah.
Or the amount of chit chat orcoffees or, you know, whatever
else.
Um, but I think to be able tocreate that empowerment around
(07:38):
you where you're like, this isthe goal.
It's up to you how you.
Like, I'm here to help, but it'sup to you.
Use your time wisely.
Right.
I think, yeah.
And knowing women, let's behonest, we, you know, in some
cases we definitely work harderin some scenarios and.
You know, I've worked incorporate for however many
(08:00):
years, but I kicked off mycareer when I was 17.
I worked offshore and I was theonly female for years.
Um, and I always felt like I hadto work harder.
All the guys would be, you know,chilling out and I'd be trying
to learn something and I wouldalways go above and beyond.
A part of me is like, well, itstayed with me.
(08:21):
I continue to like bust my ass.
Cause I, you know, I, I want tostrive, but I'm also like,
imagine if we just all startedon the same playing field.
Imagine if it was all equal andwe didn't have to feel the need
to bring more.
And I think especially whenyou're a mom, you then think,
okay, well now I need to bringmore cuz they're gonna think I'm
(08:44):
not serious about my career andI.
I hate that, especially inAmerica.
I feel like it's a, it's a lotdifferent here, the way we view
women and we're like, oh, great,she's pregnant.
Awesome.
Yeah, that's it, that's it forher career.
And you're like, no, no, no, no.
We can do this
AMANDA (09:02):
Yeah.
So the way I, I, as I get older,I, I, I try to just like go back
to.
Facts and, and keep it in databecause I think once we, once we
assign gender to something, itcauses an emotional reaction.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so all of a sudden, like,like men are like, oh, here we
(09:24):
go again.
This is about like, uh,whatever, right?
And so, yeah, I teach a class onefficiency and I, I'll like go
through this and I'll be like,okay, let's talk about
Parkinson's law.
It's, it's about the fact thatwhatever time you allot to an
activity, you will fill it withthat activity.
And so we have allotted, youknow, a 10 or eight to 10 hour
(09:48):
workday based on industrialrevolution times.
We have been given eight to 10hours to be at work.
So we will fill that eight to 10hours with chatting with our
friends on Slack, with you know,whatever.
We will expand to whatever time.
And so I teach efficiency andI'll be like, Set a timer, say,
(10:13):
I need to create this deck andI'm giving myself 70 minutes to
do it, and I'm gonna create theoutline today, and then tomorrow
I'm gonna make it look prettyand the next day I'm going to
proof it, add more concepts andI'll have a deck done in, you
know, 210 minutes over the spanof three days.
Yeah.
And like I teach people like youwill then get it done because,
(10:37):
you know, you only have 70minutes.
And I think intuitively goingback to what you said women
have, you know, w when you lookat the number of invisible labor
hours that are assigned to womenversus men, um, obviously this
is a very heteronormative wewe're taking.
Account, like single dads, etcetera, which I think, yeah,
don't have enough credit, butit's like, okay, if we look at
(10:59):
the macro scale we have.
Both work and, you know,childcare and all these things
that are, are on our plates.
And so we naturally do it.
And so if we teach everyone todo this, then we're equipping an
entire society with the, the,the tools they need to get more
(11:20):
done and less time so that itfrees up.
I, I think, removing men fromthis conversation.
time, et cetera.
We're doing all of ourselves adisservice because if we could
let them get their work done inless time too, they're now open
to say, well, what would I dowith that extra time?
(11:41):
And how can I Yeah.
Like, you know, pick the kids upfrom school and go, et cetera.
So I, I, I push like, I used toonly talk to women about this
stuff, and then I was like,well, we, we know how to do
this.
Like it's innate.
And so now I teach like a lot ofpeople how to, to think about
their time in such a way that'struly, truly outcome oriented so
(12:03):
that everyone can be freed upto, to have more hours to do
what they want to be doing.
And that want can be decided,you know, based on what's
important to them.
Yeah.
And it
FRANCENE (12:16):
also, I mean, that's a great way of thinking about it
and I really need to put thatinto practice.
Um, especially when it comes toyour example of presentations,
that's probably where Iprocrastinate the most.
I'll literally leave it to thelast minute and I'm like, oh, I
hate doing presentations.
Um, but yeah, I think it's.
(12:38):
Setting that goal of completingsomething.
So then you're like, this meansI can leave early and I can go
see my friends.
I can go to happy hour or I cango to the park, or whatever it
is.
But I think that timeallocation, because we've been
so conditioned with that hoursof, you know, this is when you
(12:59):
need to be at work.
And I think, you know,mentioning this kinda.
You know, post covid lifestylewhere there is more flexibility.
You have so many people beinglike, but we've been so used to,
yeah, the eight to five.
Like now, what do you mean?
You can leave earlier?
You can flex your schedule.
(13:20):
And I think we have such adisjointed in the workforce
right now, where you have theyounger generation being like,
this is great.
We're working from home.
They trust us, and you have.
I'm obviously generalizing theolder generation, they're like,
whoa, why are you working fromhome?
You should be here.
You should be seen.
(13:40):
Why are you grabbing a coffee?
Why are you leaving early?
That it's,
AMANDA (13:43):
um, Well, we, we, like the shift happened.
It was literally like one day wewere working in an office.
The next day we worked fromhome, and so there was no
transition period.
And so then it was like you hadan entire group of, of people
being like, well, This has anexpiration date and we're going
(14:05):
back to normal, and, and nowwe're seeing it did, that didn't
happen.
And now there's a lot of hybrid.
But yeah.
What happened during the time ofcovid was developing tools to
create the, the things thathappen in an office, uh, because
there is the, the, the hallwaychats sometimes.
(14:28):
Brew ideas or they, um, theyallow for less one-on-one time,
you know, meeting times.
And now all of a sudden it'slike, well, how do we prevent
everybody from being on Zoom allday so that they can still get
the work done, but still allowfor those kind of spontaneous
interactions?
And so we, we instituted whatwas called a synced, um, slack
(14:51):
time.
Where everyone has to be onSlack for about 90 minutes on a
Tuesday, and we do a round robinwhere, and everybody can see
it's transparency.
Now granted, we have a team ofless than 10 people, so that
makes this so much easier than abig corporation.
But you can imagine, yeah, likeif you need cross-functional
(15:11):
alignment, it's like, okay, so.
Let's have marketing and productdo a synced slack time where the
product managers are talking tothe marketing managers and, and
they're just like at pinging abunch of questions back and
forth, but then everybody hasline of sight into what the
questions are.
It's like, Hey, how's that newproduct coming along?
I'm, I'm a little concernedabout this feature.
(15:32):
Can you talk like blah, blah,blah, blah.
And that's like the hallwayconversation.
But now the best part is it'stransparent because everybody
can see that slack message.
So it's actually.
Elating a lot of the, the stuff.
So I think I, I'm a very like,solutions oriented type of mind,
and so I'm like, okay, we justneed to create solutions for
(15:56):
this transition from all at, uh,all at the office to all at
home.
And I think once we do that, wecan speak to the generation
that.
Okay.
What's your fear?
I always like, that's my biggestquestion about anything.
Yeah.
When someone comes back onsomething like, what are you
fearing right now?
Like what, what, what do youfeel like is going to get lost?
(16:18):
Let's sulfur that versus justlike beating your hands down and
saying, we must be in theoffice.
Like, why?
Yeah.
You're
FRANCENE (16:26):
like, why?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what is the
AMANDA (16:28):
purpose?
You just chip away at that.
Like, I feel like a lot ofthings will be better in this
world if we.
like get curious about whysomeone feels the way that they
do.
And then once you peel back kindof the layers of that, you can
start to solve for those andthen you make progress.
But I think we're, we're rightnow in a weird stage where
(16:53):
everybody feels so passionateabout their beliefs and they're
holding them so closed handedthat we are not stopping to just
have conversations.
Yeah, it's true.
FRANCENE (17:05):
Or stopping to be open enough to listen and hear the
other person's perspective andthink, okay, I understand why
you're feeling that way.
Let's compromise.
Whereas I agree, I agree.
There's definitely a lot ofemotions.
Slightly Yeah, a lot of peopledefinitely jumping on the
(17:28):
defense and everything's very.
Um, like us versus them kind ofthing.
Right, exactly.
Um, okay.
So I do have one more questionand then we'll kick into the
quick fire rounds.
So, um, for all the womenlistening to this, can you
provide advice on what you feelis needed in order to be
(17:52):
successful?
AMANDA (17:57):
So in order to be successful, you truly have to
love yourself.
Like, and, and be your ownpartner.
Be your own hype person when yougo into a room, like I was the
youngest VP in the corporate,like in my corporate setting.
(18:17):
Um, and that came with a lot oflike, oh, What are they talking
about me?
Do they not feel like I deservethis role, et cetera, et cetera.
And, and there's a ton of likeconversations you can have in
your head.
You have to truly stand in yourknowledge, in your expertise, in
(18:38):
your growth, and, and f.
Feel worthy of whatever placethat you are in.
Same with relationships.
Like if you wanna have asuccessful relationship, you
need to be a whole human, andthe other person needs to be a
whole human.
You have to have done your workto know what you bring to the
table, to know what your gapsare, to know what your triggers
(18:58):
are, and, and stand in that.
And then you're not trying toearn someone else's love because
you, you know that.
Complete without it.
And so everything comes back tolike this completeness in
yourself.
And that to me has been the workthat has, I think, catapulted me
(19:19):
over the last couple of years inmy career, in my personal life,
um, as a mom.
Um, I'm not trying to earnthings.
I'm, I'm comp, you know, sandingin my completeness.
FRANCENE (19:33):
I love that.
That is a great, great answer.
Um, Yeah, I think we all need tobe like that.
I definitely, a lot of timeswe'll have like imposter
syndrome and think I shouldn'tbe here, I don't deserve to be
here.
Or why is that person my friend?
Um, and it's, I really try andsnap out it and again, I feel
(19:55):
the older I get, the moreconfident I become in myself.
Um, but I feel we all need tojust do that check sometimes,
even if it's just before you gointo the office or before you
start your workday or before yougot for drinks and be like, no,
I, I deserve to be here becauseof X, Y, Z.
It's like, we need to do our ownKinda walking like hide Yeah.
AMANDA (20:20):
Well, okay.
And then the last thing I'll sayon this topic is, Bring our
brains there.
There's a thing called thenegativity bias.
Our brains are wired and it, ittakes, it takes you back to the
evolution days of cavemen andstuff, but our brains are wired
to a nine to one negativitybias.
Meaning for every one positivething, you may think, you'll
(20:43):
think nine negative things.
That that is how our brain iswired.
And if you think about why, froman evolutionary standpoint, it
was probably to protectyourself, you have to think
about like, oh, this isn't justa beautiful spot to like build a
family or a truck or whatever.
It's like, oh, we're close tothis, you know, potential fault
line or, or this kind of animalthat could, or whatever.
(21:04):
You had to constantly bethinking about what could go
wrong.
Well, that has stayed in ourbrains, and so just know that
when you're thinking negativethoughts, you have to
intentionally rewire your brainto say positive things because
it's.
it's baseline is nine to onenegative to positive.
(21:25):
And that's not anyone's fault.
That's just how we were evolvedas creatures.
And so that's why like I used tobe like, oh, gratitude
journaling is so silly.
Like, I don't need to do that.
But now that I know the, thedata and the science behind it,
I'm like, oh no, I have tobecause I have to rewire my
brain to be thinking not apositive thing.
(21:46):
So when you're going into ameeting, And you feel that
imposter syndrome, reframe itas, oh, my brain's wiring is
nine to one, so now I've gottashift that.
So yes, I'm a little nervous.
I don't feel like I have to, youknow, I've earned my place to be
at this thing.
I don't feel like I know as muchas these other people.
Okay, well, shit, I just thoughtof three negative things.
(22:08):
I'm gonna double that and try tothink of six positive things.
Like, oh, I've done the researchon this thing.
I, I feel really confident intalking about this aspect.
Like I've.
You know, 15 years to get intothis meeting, like give yourself
that rewiring, and now you'relike, okay, it's not about
gratitude anymore.
It's like about I have a shortcircuit and I need to fix it.
FRANCENE (22:29):
Yeah.
It's like you're just poweringyourself back to be like, hold
on.
Wait mind.
I know I can do this.
Right.
Um, but no, that is greatadvice.
Um, I definitely could ask youanother like 30 questions, but
anyway, let's go into the round.
Um, so just tell me whateverpops into your head.
(22:50):
So your favorite cocktail?
AMANDA (22:53):
I don't drink a lot, um, but if I do, uh, I am, I love a
good like old fashion.
FRANCENE (23:01):
Oh yeah.
I love an old fashioned, yeah,I, I'm the same.
I don't drink that much.
Um, I'm also the biggestlightweight, which is why I
don't drink a lot.
So I kinda don't help myself butI can only have one.
And that is enough But I love anold fashioned, um, who would
(23:22):
play you in a movie?
AMANDA (23:25):
Oh gosh.
I mean, if I had to pick acharacter that I feel the most,
like, it'd be like Mrs.
Maisel, but like, I'd be MissMrs.
Maisel personified as likesomeone else.
But, um, like I, I think likean.
Emma Stone or someone like thatwho's like a little quirky says
what's on our mind.
(23:45):
Yeah, I'm a little awkward too,so like, I'm sure that would
come into play.
I don't know.
Something like that.
Emma
FRANCENE (23:53):
Stone's a good one.
Um, what is your favoritenumber?
AMANDA (23:57):
23.
It was my basketball number andI'm from Illinois and I was a
big Michael Jordan fan and it, Isee 23 all the time.
Oh, I
FRANCENE (24:05):
love that.
That's a good one.
It's interesting cuz of course,as Michael Jordan, but it makes
me instantly think of OnetreeHill.
I dunno if he ever watched that.
Yeah.
But um, that was their nu such agood show.
Um, anyway, um, if you were asex say character, who would you
be?
AMANDA (24:24):
So, I'm.
A mix between Carrie andSamantha, cuz I have no filter
when it comes to sexuality, etcetera.
But I'm a hopeless romantic.
Like I truly, truly, um, want tofind my partner.
And I, I feel like I have, I'm,I'm now recently dating someone
new and, um, like I, I, that ismy driver.
(24:46):
Like I, I think for me, I.
Sex is the best when I have anemotional connection with the
person.
And I like, I don't know ifanybody knows the term bisexual,
but that is truly what I am,like my, my sexual drive comes
from emotional connection.
Um, and so yeah, I, I definitelyfeel like the, the mix of Carrie
(25:08):
and Samantha, cause I just haveno filter too.
So that's why I said theSamantha.
FRANCENE (25:13):
Yeah, I mean I dream of having that little piece of
snap in me, but I'm soCharlotte.
It's unbelievable.
I'm definitely on like the prudeand honestly, it's through doing
this podcast, I've interviewed,um, someone that specializes in
sex in sex therapy.
(25:34):
Yeah, it has been.
Awesome to talk about it.
The more I speak about it, morecomfortable I become, but it is
crazy how much like my pans willlike sweat up when we talk about
it and I'm like, oh, I'm so, I'mso Charlotte.
Um, okay.
If you could pick only twoskincare products, what would
they be?
AMANDA (25:54):
So, I would definitely say like I now with our, our
serum, I don't wanna just saylike, I, I use that every day
and it's like now kind ofreplaced a couple of my other
ones I'm gonna say.
So I use Vaseline a lot.
Yeah.
(26:15):
I do like, it's if I could onlyhave something that's in my
arsenal, I have very combo skin,so I use Vaseline, um, like over
things or, or just alone.
And it's so cheap.
And so I feel like that's likeprobably number one.
And then number two, uh, like askin pharmaceuticals retinol,
(26:36):
like that transformed my skinimmensely.
So if I had those two things, Iwould be like, set for life.
FRANCENE (26:44):
Yeah.
I mean, Vaseline is definitelyone of those products that you
can use so much.
Yeah, so much for like,everything.
Um, what is the best complimentyou've ever gotten?
AMANDA (27:00):
Best compliment I've ever gotten.
I mean, whenever someonecompliments you on motherhood
hits in like a new way, like.
Beauty fades.
Like businesses come and go,like my identity is not wrapped
up in in, or at least I'm tryingto unlearn that my identity is
(27:23):
wrapped up in any of thoseperformance-based metrics.
And when someone meets my kidsand says something about my
children, to me, it's not even acompliment to me.
If they're polite or they helpsomeone or they're like that.
(27:45):
If I, if I'm raising kids whowill try to make the world a
little bit better and moreloving and and less divisive,
then to me that's the bestcompliment because that's my,
like, legacy.
You know?
That's what's gonna last waybeyond.
Hopefully, you know, my timehere.
So I think it the, that's whatreally like lights.
(28:07):
Yeah, that's a great
FRANCENE (28:08):
way to think about him.
It's always nice when your kidsare polite, Yeah, I'm forever
striving for that.
My daughter can sometimes be alittle bit shy and when new
people come up to her, she willgo quiet and I'm like, no, no.
Say hi Yeah, like it's okay tosay hi.
(28:28):
My, my middle.
Also like stranger in danger.
Danger.
AMANDA (28:32):
Right.
My middle is really shy and sowe have a lot of talks on, you
know, what do you feel when, youknow, you meet new people and
it's like, oh yeah.
You know, sometimes like, cuzI'm an extrovert and so is my
oldest daughter and so her twomodels that are like, I could
talk to a tree for an hour, andso she.
I'm like, you know what?
(28:53):
There's lots of people that, youknow, when they first meet
people, they, they're quiet, andthen maybe there's a question
you could ask.
That's like how I frame it.
It's like, here's a question youcan ask them, like, what's your
favorite color?
And so that way they, she feelsequipped to like ask them a
question because then it'll getthem talking.
I was like, the best part whenyou don't wanna talk is like get
(29:15):
the other person talking so thatyou don't have to talk.
Yeah.
But I totally feel that's mymiddle.
Literally like you can feel herjust like retreating behind my
legs to be like, I don't wannasee anyone.
FRANCENE (29:28):
Yeah, it is, it is wild as they grow their like
personalities.
Um, and then once they're outthere, you're like, okay, you
can come back in You're good.
That's enough.
Um, okay.
And what is your life motto orfavorite fa um, phrase that you
live by?
AMANDA (29:48):
Um, I have on my like wall, I have a couple things.
Like I have, life is tough, butso are you like, at the end of
the day, like it's choose,you're tough.
Like everything is, there's noeasy path in anything.
And so I, I, I really do settleon the fact that like, Not going
to the gym is hard.
Going to the gym is hard.
(30:08):
Like, yeah, you know, building acompany is hard, but working for
a company is hard.
Like it's just choosing yourhard and knowing that you can do
either of them and, and so Ithink that one, I, I think about
a lot.
I love it.
FRANCENE (30:24):
That's perfect.
Thank you so much, Amanda, forjoining me.
Um, I've very much appreappreciate this conversation and
everything you've accomplishedand also just the space that
you're trying to.
Great so well for women and tobe able to have these
conversations so openly, um, isvery inspiring and I know, I
(30:46):
hope my listeners willappreciate it too.
But please go check out House ofWise, um, as I mentioned, I have
been using, um, the face serum,so I'll post more about it on my
Instagram page.
And, you know, we mentioned somemore of their products, so
please go have a look.
Um, but yeah.
Thank you so much, Amanda.
AMANDA (31:05):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate thisconversation and all the, the
topics that you cover on thispodcast.
So thank you so much for doingit.
FRANCENE (31:13):
Yeah, anytime.
And I hope you enjoy your timein Chicago.
Um, and I will let you know oncethis goes
AMANDA (31:19):
live.
Awesome.
Thank you, Franc.
FRANCENE (31:22):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
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