Interview part 1 with CEO of ANNOD beauty brand!
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(00:01):
Hey, welcome to real beauty withAF D.
This is episode well.
If anyone is a loyal listener.
You will see that I added in alittle bonus episode on
Thanksgiving day, just to remindus all, um, what that day is
about.
And for me personally, it'sabout having.
(00:23):
A bit more gratitude andthankfulness with everything
that I have in my life.
And so with that, for all of myAmerican buddies, I hope you had
a wonderful Thanksgiving.
And I'm sure like me, you havebeen inundated with.
Sales for black Friday, firstcyber Monday today, it has been
(00:46):
wild.
How many sales have been on likemy spam mail for just my work
email was like over a hundredand that was just over the
weekend.
It was ridiculous.
And trust me, I'm not signed upto that much.
I promise.
That is my backup to getadditional discount, which I
know we all do.
(01:07):
I've also used my husband'semail in order to get some good
discounts.
But anyway, I am very proud ofmyself because I have not, sir,
come to any of the sales.
Um, I've been very good,although I do have my eye on
several things, but every time Iwent to look at it, it's sold
out.
So clearly it's assigned for meto not spend any money.
(01:29):
So I will take that.
However, what did suck today wasgoing back to work after being
off for a week.
It was not an easy task to getout bad this morning and it's
been cold.
Um, but I dragged myself out andI also took myself to the gym at
lunchtime, which I was reallyproud of.
(01:50):
And I'm really trying to stay.
True to my early resolutions,kind of get back on track when
it comes to fitness.
So anything to make myself kindof do that, especially as I have
a gym on campus.
There's no excuse.
Um, the other thing I did wantto mention, um, although I was
(02:10):
off last week and it was veryrelaxing and I, the best time
with my friends, my family wassuch a welcome break.
I finally went to REM fast.
So if you are living in theHouston area, The Renaissance
festival.
Is literally the best thingever.
And I've been here for eight anda half years and I've never
(02:31):
gone.
So yesterday I was loving it.
Plus caking myself that.
I hadn't, um, participate in itbefore, plus.
I didn't even dress up.
But I did wear tartan, so I wasrepresenting Scotland.
Um, but yeah, it was so, so muchfun.
(02:51):
I highly recommend it.
Although I'm advertising this onSunday, yesterday was the last
day.
So I guess we'll, we'll all bethere for 2023 and we'll be all
over it and I will definitely bedressing up.
The other exciting news that Iwanted to add is last Saturday.
I Fischli became an Americancitizen.
(03:16):
So again, I talk about us beinghere for eight and a half years,
and it has been a long assjourney to get to this point.
But I am dare I say it.
Official, um, It is literallythe best feeling.
So now I just need to get myselfa passport and, um, I mean, it's
already official, but I feellike it will be much easier from
(03:39):
a traveling perspective.
So I feel really, really happy.
Um, more than happy if anyonehas any questions about the
process or anything else, I'mmore than happy to kind of give
my 2 cents, but.
Yeah.
It is the biggest relief ever toknow that, um, I will be here
(04:00):
permanently.
So there's no checking me out ofthe us anymore.
I'm living my child, child,child to dream.
Anyway without further, do Ifeel like my rambling at the
star of these podcasts isbecoming a longer and longer.
Um, so I will stop and I willpass it onto my incredible gas,
(04:20):
Donna, who I feel like I've beenspeaking to her for months and
her brand, which we are going tospeak about in a second is.
Literally the best secret I'veuncovered this year and I've
been using it religiously.
So if you follow me inInstagram, you will see that
I've been sharing this skincarebrand.
And I will continue to do so.
(04:41):
And actually I need to do morekind of detailed, um, videos
just to show how just awesome.
Um, Each of the products are sohigh, highly recommend as you're
listening to this.
And again, if you have anyquestions reach out, but, um,
yeah, it was an absolutepleasure speaking to Donna and
just how knowledgeable she is.
(05:03):
Um, and also as I was kind ofediting the podcast, I was like,
gosh, her voice is so soothing.
So um it will definitely makeyou feel nice and relaxed i hope
you enjoy this conversation andi do have a little person here
that wants to give a littleshout out so Hi.
(05:27):
Okay enjoy
francene (05:48):
Yay.
Well, it's nice to finally seeyou
donna (05:52):
Yes.
Good to talk to you in person.
I
francene (05:55):
know.
So how's everything going?
donna (06:00):
Very good.
I do have a little cold nowthough.
Oh.
So of course my husband gave methe cold as well.
He was away again.
So I think every time we travelyou get some sort of
francene (06:13):
bug.
Yeah.
I feel everything after C is,our bodies just aren't, I don't
know.
I feel like my body is trying tobuild up a tolerance again of
all the bugs out there that I'venever been more sick with bugs
than I have over the last likenine months.
donna (06:34):
Yes, the same.
And I had Covid just before you.
Yeah.
And it took us months to getbetter.
I haven't been exercising.
I take my puppy to the dog parkand I don't even take him for a
long walk after that.
Yeah.
So it really has up me.
And then I have a cold, I can'tremember the last time I had a
(06:56):
cold.
So it's, it's the same here.
And apparently yesterday, um,somebody said that, um, the, um,
sorry.
Um, PO's backing Newcastleagain, it's running rampant.
You know, it goes throughstages.
(07:18):
Yes.
So, um, it's, it's back hereagain.
I'm like, no, I did not want it.
I know.
francene (07:25):
It's, it's like I feel we went through phases of being
like, okay, we have this undercontrol.
We should be good.
And then certainly, I mean,yeah, similar to you, like when
I got it, there were so manycases here in the US it's, I'm
surprised people that haven'thad it, haven't had it yet.
donna (07:51):
Of all people.
My mom is the only one out ofour, our whole family who hasn't
had covid, you know, with, uh,the youngest is 18.
Yeah.
And my husband's nearly 60, andthen my mom's 73 and she, she
hasn't had it, which is good forher.
francene (08:09):
Yeah, it is.
Hopefully that continues.
Mm.
Fingers.
Um, well I really appreciate youtaking time out to speak with
me, um, and especially to comeon my podcast, real beauty.
Yes.
Thank
donna (08:23):
you for having
francene (08:24):
me.
Um, and certainly, I know we'regonna go into this in more
detail, but just for thelisteners, um, out there, I was
able to be introduced to Donnavia her brand, um, which we will
talk about in a second.
And I've been loving it andactually I have it in front of
me.
Ah, good.
And I don't, I don't have therose spray because I actually
(08:44):
keep that in my handbag.
Um, cuz I use Ah, that's a goodidea.
Constantly.
It's amazing.
Um, but anyway, let me kick itoff.
So, Donna, welcome to RealBeauty with fd, a place where we
discuss what beauty means to us,whether it's a product that
sells out every second aroundthe world, or it's a cult
(09:07):
classic to discussing bodypositivity, to building
incredible brands.
We are here to find your littleblack dress in skincare makeup,
and more importantly, promotinghappiness within your own skin
and owning it each episode andbringing in a new personality to
discuss all things beauty andtouch on their inspiring
(09:27):
stories.
So Donna, the question I askeveryone to kick it off is, um,
what does beauty
donna (09:34):
mean to you?
I think beauty is confidence,and that's confidence in your
own skin.
Doesn't matter what skin it is,what hair color, what your age
is.
I think it's confidence.
Yeah,
francene (09:50):
I completely agree.
And owning that confidence.
donna (09:55):
Yes.
Cause matter Yes.
Well, when you feel confident,you know, when you look good,
you feel confident.
So it really goes hand in hand.
And I think that's, um, a partof an, it's about that self care
and, um, making yourself feelgood and look good, which is
(10:18):
then portrayed to everybody elsethat you meet.
francene (10:22):
Yeah, it is.
It's crazy how like, and I'vespoken about this with another
guest, but when you see thatkind of confidence within
someone, it just like oozes outof them.
It's like a flow of it's energy.
Yeah.
Yes.
I feel you just wanna be aroundthose individuals.
It's a great, great place to be.
donna (10:43):
Yes.
Yes.
So that, that's what I thinkbeauty is.
I love
francene (10:48):
that.
So tell me what made you come upwith the brand and on, and like
what, what does it mean
donna (10:56):
to you?
Okay, so I am a BD therapist andI started when I was 17 years
old and I had acne and a lot ofbeauty therapy students get acne
cuz they get a lot ofoverstimulation of the skin
because we have to practice oneach other regularly.
(11:18):
So, you know, you, you tend tobe at that age where you have a
few spots anyway and it reallyexasperates and then when you
throw in stress, I started myown business virtually straight
out of beauty school.
I was one week in.
So after graduating within aweek I owned my own business,
(11:40):
which is where I used to work ona Thursday night, Saturday
morning role.
Wow.
So, um, my skin was bad and Icame top of my beauty school, so
I had a really goodunderstanding of skin.
I also sold a German skincareproduct that I had a very good
(12:03):
understanding of product andskin.
And I was in the top 10 sellersin Australia at age 18, and I
got a free trip to Germany to gotour the factory.
Yeah.
So I had this combination of theknowledge.
Um, I had a love of everythingnatural.
(12:23):
When I was young, I'd wash myhair in my dad's beer and I'd
put oats in the bath.
I was always in trouble fortaking stuff outta pantry,
writing the grocer
francene (12:36):
in the bath.
donna (12:39):
So, um, I discovered aromatherapy.
I was really starting to feel abit disgruntled in the industry
of recommending products and theclients weren't getting the
results and my own skin beingbad.
That was a confidence factor forme that I didn't feel too
(13:03):
confident when I thought peoplewere looking at my skin going,
well, you've got bad skin.
How can you recommend this?
Yeah, so I started to experimentwith my own skin and that's when
an art was born.
Now, I don't know if we havediscussed this and odd is Donna
(13:24):
said back.
francene (13:25):
I love this so much.
So when we were going back andforth over Instagram, you said
that, and I was like, and Ithink I said this to you, I was
like, oh my God, how did I notsee this
donna (13:37):
Of course it's,
francene (13:38):
but I did wonder when I was reading up about the
product, and obviously I've beenusing the cleanser and also, um,
the Rose Toner, um, which is anincredible mist and very, very
hydrating, especially living inTexas over the summer.
It has been amazing and myskin's been very up and down,
(14:01):
mainly due to hormones lately.
So you, ah, a clean product.
I can tell how much of adifference that makes on my
skin.
But yeah, looking at it, I waslike, oh, of course it's Donna
myself.
donna (14:18):
Yeah, so that's where Anno was born.
It was started as an experimentfor my own skin and then like
within a week you could see thedifference in my skin.
And customers started to commentand then they would say, make me
something.
And there's, you know, most ofthe products in the range have
(14:38):
been born from a particularclient's skin.
Mm-hmm.
that we were having an issuewith.
And it's the same issues thatevery skin has.
The skin's not particularlydifferent from anybody.
They all need either moisture oroil.
(14:58):
And just getting that balanceright for your skin creates that
ha happy, healthy skin.
You know, your skin's an organ,so we need to treat it exactly
like we treat the other organswithin our body.
francene (15:13):
Yeah.
Which is, um, I'm sure for a lotof people listening, it's um,
it's crazy how much of adifference if your skin, say if
you have like a hormonal pimpleor you suffer from acne or acne
or whatever it is.
Personally, to me, it makes mefeel so down.
(15:34):
Like it makes it down and Idon't typically suffer from bad
skin.
But when it's bad to me, Igenerally, I don't wanna go out,
I don't wanna see people.
And I'm also very conscious of.
Covering it up because then Ifeel like I'm amplifying the
problem.
Like I feel like it's morevisible.
Like I don't do my makeup thebest.
(15:55):
So when I put on concealer over,you know, a pimple, I feel like
I'm like, oh God, I feel likeI've put like a target on the
pimple
donna (16:03):
Yeah.
It's a sign Yes.
Look at this.
Yeah.
And one of the difficultiesthat, like I, I've been in the
beauty industry from, I was, uh,I got off the school bus Friday
afternoon and I got on thebeauty school bus Monday morning
and I was 17 years old, so, um,I'm now 55.
(16:27):
And so I have spoken to a lot ofwomen about their skin, how they
feel, how it makes us feel.
And one of the things that Ireally notice with women is
we're so hard on ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, our expectations are muchhigher.
For ourselves, them, what theywould be for a friend.
(16:50):
Like, you know, you spoke to meabout having a spot.
If you said to your friend, ohmy God, look at this spot.
She'd go, oh, I can't see it.
Yeah.
But whereas, yes, yes.
So the one thing that we tend todo is we face the mirror.
Um, now we use centimeters here,so you may have to convert for
(17:13):
me.
You know, we put our face to themirror, you know, five
centimeters from the mirror, um,to have a look at the skin.
And we can see every floor,every, you know, whereas when
we're face to face, you know,wear a good meter.
Well actually now with Covid,we're meter and a half ideally.
(17:36):
Yeah.
So I think that's one of thethings.
And a pimple is a way of yourbody.
To tell you something's wrongand um, I've always been inter
natural holistic.
So I'm trained in Chinese facediagnosis.
So there are certain areas inthe, the face that will show you
(17:56):
what part of your body is atDisre.
So, oh my gosh, yes.
So hormonal pimples will runalong the jaw line there and
down into the neck area
francene (18:09):
through here.
I have one here.
I know no one, no one else
donna (18:13):
can see it.
Yes.
No one can see it other than
francene (18:15):
here.
Oh my God.
Yes, I get it
donna (18:18):
here.
Yes.
So what you need there is, andit's just your body's way of
expelling what it doesn't needyour skin's excretory organ.
So you want things to, one ofthe biggest things for your
skin, particularly when you havespots like.
Most people will not want tomoisturize because they think
(18:39):
that they're going to to feedit.
Yeah.
That's not the case.
The more moist the skin is,which you're talking about our
hydrating rose mist.
Yeah.
That's helping your skin to healbecause we're adding moisture,
um, where soothing, cooling theskin with that product as well.
But you know, things like ourgreen clay mask are fabulous
(19:02):
through that area, um, becauseyou know, you spot a combination
of a bit of bacteria, a hormonallump, um, swelling from the
lymphatic system.
So your skin is always in astate of having some sort of
healing
francene (19:17):
you got me all excited about the Chinese reading and I
was like, I've never heard ofthis
donna (19:24):
So I have always, uh, worked with natural ingredients
and um, natural techniques andI'm trained in Chinese face
diagnosis and talking about yourspot under the chin there.
That's the hormonal area.
Now under the jawline, from thesides of the ears under the
(19:46):
jawline down to the sides of theneck, that will be the area
where the body will tell youwhen the hormones are out of
whack.
And one of the things withspots, I mean, I'm 55 and I can
still get a spot come up on myskin cuz it's your body's way of
telling you that there issomething wrong and out of
(20:06):
balance.
Yeah.
Your skin being an excreteorgan.
So the thing that people tend towant to do with the skin is,
particularly if you have a spotto avoid moisture.
Yeah.
Now you are moisturizing, um,your skin needs to heal and it's
in a constant state of, of oftenneeding to heal from different,
(20:28):
um, events that have taken placeto our, um, emotional lives,
different events that have takenplace to our environmental
lives.
So there's, there's alwayssomething that the body will
show you.
So you've got the hormonal outof whack at the moment.
Yeah.
One of the things is you aremissed is very important cuz
(20:51):
it's going to keep healing andhydrating the skin.
Our green clean mask is alsovery absorbent.
Um, And will help to take thepinkness out, take the soreness.
Cause hormones can, the hormonalspot can get quite sore as well.
Wow.
Cause there's a lot of swelling.
Yeah.
(21:11):
Yes.
A lot of swelling in it.
And there's no actual openingfor a core or, um, infection to
come out.
So the fastest way to heal thatis your moisture and products
that are about healing.
I love a little bit of lavenderdab directly onto the spot.
(21:31):
That's nice and nice andhealing.
Um, another area that you'lloften see people will have spots
is the side of the mouth.
Just under the lips.
Yeah.
There's two circles and the bitin the middle will stay clear.
Mm-hmm.
And what'll happen is you willget a spot in that area two to
(21:55):
three weeks.
After the event.
Now the event could be good.
It could be a wedding, it couldbe moving house, but anytime the
body goes into that stress mode,whether adrenaline kicks in,
when the adrenaline calms downtwo to three weeks, that's where
those spots will show up.
No way.
(22:17):
Oh my gosh.
That's how predictable the skinis, and I know there's a lot of
information in our industry.
A lot of it's incorrect.
The skin is virtually the sameon every person as the next
person.
It's only different times.
(22:37):
It'll need more moisture versusmore oil according to the season
and according to what's happenedin your life at that.
francene (22:46):
Yeah, and that's what I was gonna mention.
I appreciate you saying likeseasons.
Um, cuz I'm originally fromScotland and we moved over to
Texas about eight and a halfyears ago.
And in Scotland it's obviouslydrier, you know, it's a lot
harsher weather conditions.
My skin was a lot drier.
(23:07):
I eat, I would struggle withlike truly dry skin, it would
flake.
And then moving out here whereit's so humid, I have like the
opposite.
So very oily skin, which I'm,I'm actually okay with.
I prefer oily skin to, um, youknow, dry skin.
Yeah,
donna (23:25):
it'll, it'll.
Wrinkles cuz you've got more oilto keep the skin more supple.
Yes.
Never be afraid of a bit of oil.
francene (23:33):
Yeah.
This is why I'm like, I'll takethe humidity and the hotness,
but I'm always very consciousthat even here when we get into,
you know, fall and winter ischanging up my skin care
routine, knowing that theweather will affect my skin.
Um, so what advice do you havewhen you are, you know, kind of
changing seasons?
(23:54):
What should you be kind ofchanging in your skincare or
being more conscious of?
donna (24:01):
I actually run a skincare club and our clients have a
delivery every three months, soobviously that's seasonal.
So we will swap out theirproducts according to the
season.
Um, for us coming into summer,we will swap out their, their
cleanser.
(24:21):
Yeah.
Um, if the skin is a lot morecombination, we'll also swap out
their mist because that's partof the cleansing routine.
Yeah.
And then we will swap out theirmoisturizing, um, cream and
moisturizing oil.
They have both a cream and anoil cuz that's the perfect
combination for the skin.
(24:42):
And then things like coming intosummer, we're saying to our
customers at the moment, right,you need to exfoliate more
because if you have an oily skinin summer, the oil will make
everything stick to the surfaceof the skin more soap.
Whereas if you going intowinter, your skin will need more
masking and.
(25:04):
Oil based products, you know,more deep nourishment.
So depending upon the seasonsummer, your skin's gonna need
more hydration, morebrightening.
We'll swap our clients from ourregenerative lavender exfoliant
and we'll swap'em across todetoxifying lemon exfoliant
(25:24):
because you know, you're gonnabe wearing sunblock, which is a
lot of chemicals for the skin,more oil flow and, um,
pigmentation.
So we're going to swap, youknow, brightening for
regeneration.
francene (25:39):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
And the other thing I reallyappreciate about your website is
you have it, you can obviouslyshop like the skincare, um, you
know, any kind of skincareproducts, but you also have it
by skin concern.
So if you're like arly skin oryou know, dry skin, you give
(26:00):
recommendations of what youwould use for that, which I
appreciate.
Yes.
donna (26:07):
Because what, like, that's a question a lot of women
have asked me over the years.
What's my skin type, Donna?
Yeah.
Now we all are a combination ofeverything.
There's no such thing as justdry, just oily, but you have
bigger areas that are oily.
So in oily skin, we woulddetermine is you have open
(26:28):
pores, you have open flow.
Now most people have only.
A T-zone.
It can be narrow, it can bewide, but if you have more of
that area than dryer areas, weclassify the products to use,
uh, for the oily skin.
So I will swap into, um, some ofthose products for summertime
(26:52):
just to keep, you know,brightening and texture down.
And then winter time I'll moveback onto the more nourishing
anti-aging product.
francene (27:05):
Yeah.
No, that's, that's awesome.
That's, um, great advice.
Um, the other thing I wanted torandomly ask you is, I know you
guys have, um, like body care aswell, um mm-hmm.
so obviously not just a face,but your body too.
And I know some women can sufferfrom like acne or breakouts,
(27:30):
like on your chest area or youknow, on your back.
What would you like, what advicewould you give to individuals
that have that cause especiallyin the summer months in winter,
it's a lot easier to cover up.
Um, but I feel in the summermonths, it's something that can
make people feel reallyself-conscious about and they
don't, again, I don't thinkthere's enough information out
(27:53):
there to be able to helpindividuals with, well, what do
I do about my body?
donna (27:58):
you know, Well, one of the things is you can't strip
the skin, so a lot of the washesare very stripping.
Anything that foams on the skinwith a big foam is going to
strip it because that will, it'san alkaline and your skin's an
acid.
So stop stripping number one.
(28:19):
Yeah, moisturize number two.
Yeah.
Um, and you are looking forproducts that are not occlusive.
You're avoiding products thatare fragranced.
We have a beautiful wash and wehave a charity here in Australia
called Legacy and they help theveterans.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the symbols for AnzacDay here in Australia is
(28:43):
Rosemary.
So I was asked by legacy to makeproducts that contain rosemary.
And so that's what our body washis.
Donating money to the charity aswell as cleaning the skin
without stripping the skin.
Exfoliation is another part,particularly the chairs, the top
(29:04):
of the shoulders.
I would treat that as yourfacial skin.
Okay.
So yeah, so give a little, um,facial treatment.
Do a good cleanse on it.
Exfoliate mask it.
And because that skin is verysimilar to, um, you've got.
Pause of oil and, um, sweatglands through that area.
(29:28):
So I, that's how I'd be treatingit exactly like you would the
ones on your face and don't useanything that's really going to
strip the skin.
francene (29:38):
Okay.
That is very, very good advice.
Um, I'm always conscioussometimes that when we are
talking about especially skincare, that um, again, we speak
about the face and we don'tnecessarily cover the body.
Um, which to your point, skin isa big organ, right?
Like we need to make sure thatwe're covering all bases.
(30:01):
Um, So the other thing I wantedto ask you, cuz I saw that you
have a Levon collagen mask.
Oh yes.
And also you also have likeother masks, like you mentioned,
the green clay and the pinkclay.
Um, so what would you recommendfor people using the collage of
mask?
Is that more obviouslyanti-aging?
(30:24):
Would you recommend like acertain age to be kinda using
those types of products?
donna (30:30):
It is, yes, it's part of our anti-aging range because it,
it contains the collagen, sowe're always looking to keep our
collagen production up, but it'sabout hydrating, so it's a boost
for the skin.
So we recommend that you sleepin it three nights a week.
You can also use it as a primerfor makeup.
(30:51):
Makeup needs to sit onto a moistskin.
If the skin is dehydrated, yourmakeup will suck.
Right?
And it looks patchy.
Yeah.
If your skin is oily and yourdehydrated, your makeup will
slide all over the face cuz it'ssitting on top of the excess
(31:14):
oil.
So the Lev Oncology is a greatprimer for that, and what we
recommend is our products.
Our moisturizing and levon maskis in an airless pump.
So it's just one pump if you'regoing to use it as a primer, and
two to three, if you're going touse it as a leave on mask
(31:34):
because you want it to sit ontothe skin and absorb in.
It also contains lavender andangular, which are regenerative
for the cells, but it's a musclerelaxant.
It's very calming for the mind.
And so a lot of women talk aboutthey love it at night because
it's that routine, that ritual,that smell.
(31:54):
Yeah.
That says to them, you're goingto bed now.
francene (31:58):
Yeah, it is.
Um, it's, it's nice when youhave that routine.
Like, I have this lavenderspray, um, and I spray it on my
pillows before, you know, whenI'm kind of getting organized
and I
donna (32:10):
smell it and it's, yes, it's ritual.
And that's really importantbecause the other thing that's
important for the skin is sleep.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, your skin will do it.
It's most repairing at night, soyou need to have a, a nice
restful sleep.
francene (32:30):
Yeah, there is nothing.
So I love my sleep and Idefinitely go to bed, um, at
very reasonable hour.
Like, I'm tired by like nine, soI'm definitely not a party
animal.
Um, but on the days, if I dostay up or we have a four and a
half year old and sometimes, youknow, she has her, you know, a
(32:51):
nightmare, whatever it is, evenjust missing out on a couple of
hours the next day, it is socrazy how like, just so
obviously the bags under myeyes, like my skin just looks
like gray.
I just, I notice it so muchmore.
It doesn't look radiant.
It doesn't look like wellrested.
(33:11):
Like it's very obvious.
donna (33:13):
Yes.
Because you've missed some ofthat repair time.
You've, um, just changed thebody clock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sleep is, is crucial.
And one of the, the.
Parts of getting a good sleep isthat routine, like you're
saying, you spray your pillowdown, so it just starts telling
(33:34):
your mind and your body what'sto come and to slow down and,
you know, no screens in bed.
And so it's, I need to be better
francene (33:44):
with that.
Hey, welcome to real beauty withAF D.
This is episode well.
If anyone is a loyal listener.
You will see that I added in alittle bonus episode on
Thanksgiving day, just to remindus all, um, what that day is
about.
And for me personally, it'sabout having.
(00:23):
A bit more gratitude andthankfulness with everything
that I have in my life.
And so with that, for all of myAmerican buddies, I hope you had
a wonderful Thanksgiving.
And I'm sure like me, you havebeen inundated with.
Sales for black Friday, firstcyber Monday today, it has been
(00:46):
wild.
How many sales have been on likemy spam mail for just my work
email was like over a hundredand that was just over the
weekend.
It was ridiculous.
And trust me, I'm not signed upto that much.
I promise.
That is my backup to getadditional discount, which I
know we all do.
(01:07):
I've also used my husband'semail in order to get some good
discounts.
But anyway, I am very proud ofmyself because I have not, sir,
come to any of the sales.
Um, I've been very good,although I do have my eye on
several things, but every time Iwent to look at it, it's sold
out.
So clearly it's assigned for meto not spend any money.
(01:29):
So I will take that.
However, what did suck today wasgoing back to work after being
off for a week.
It was not an easy task to getout bad this morning and it's
been cold.
Um, but I dragged myself out andI also took myself to the gym at
lunchtime, which I was reallyproud of.
(01:50):
And I'm really trying to stay.
True to my early resolutions,kind of get back on track when
it comes to fitness.
So anything to make myself kindof do that, especially as I have
a gym on campus.
There's no excuse.
Um, the other thing I did wantto mention, um, although I was
(02:10):
off last week and it was veryrelaxing and I, the best time
with my friends, my family wassuch a welcome break.
I finally went to REM fast.
So if you are living in theHouston area, The Renaissance
festival.
Is literally the best thingever.
And I've been here for eight anda half years and I've never
(02:31):
gone.
So yesterday I was loving it.
Plus caking myself that.
I hadn't, um, participate in itbefore, plus.
I didn't even dress up.
But I did wear tartan, so I wasrepresenting Scotland.
Um, but yeah, it was so, so muchfun.
(02:51):
I highly recommend it.
Although I'm advertising this onSunday, yesterday was the last
day.
So I guess we'll, we'll all bethere for 2023 and we'll be all
over it and I will definitely bedressing up.
The other exciting news that Iwanted to add is last Saturday.
I Fischli became an Americancitizen.
(03:16):
So again, I talk about us beinghere for eight and a half years,
and it has been a long assjourney to get to this point.
But I am dare I say it.
Official, um, It is literallythe best feeling.
So now I just need to get myselfa passport and, um, I mean, it's
already official, but I feellike it will be much easier from
(03:39):
a traveling perspective.
So I feel really, really happy.
Um, more than happy if anyonehas any questions about the
process or anything else, I'mmore than happy to kind of give
my 2 cents, but.
Yeah.
It is the biggest relief ever toknow that, um, I will be here
(04:00):
permanently.
So there's no checking me out ofthe us anymore.
I'm living my child, child,child to dream.
Anyway without further, do Ifeel like my rambling at the
star of these podcasts isbecoming a longer and longer.
Um, so I will stop and I willpass it onto my incredible gas,
(04:20):
Donna, who I feel like I've beenspeaking to her for months and
her brand, which we are going tospeak about in a second is.
Literally the best secret I'veuncovered this year and I've
been using it religiously.
So if you follow me inInstagram, you will see that
I've been sharing this skincarebrand.
And I will continue to do so.
(04:41):
And actually I need to do morekind of detailed, um, videos
just to show how just awesome.
Um, Each of the products are sohigh, highly recommend as you're
listening to this.
And again, if you have anyquestions reach out, but, um,
yeah, it was an absolutepleasure speaking to Donna and
just how knowledgeable she is.
(05:03):
Um, and also as I was kind ofediting the podcast, I was like,
gosh, her voice is so soothing.
So um it will definitely makeyou feel nice and relaxed i hope
you enjoy this conversation andi do have a little person here
that wants to give a littleshout out so Hi.
(05:27):
Okay enjoy
francene (05:48):
Yay.
Well, it's nice to finally seeyou
donna (05:52):
Yes.
Good to talk to you in person.
I
francene (05:55):
know.
So how's everything going?
donna (06:00):
Very good.
I do have a little cold nowthough.
Oh.
So of course my husband gave methe cold as well.
He was away again.
So I think every time we travelyou get some sort of
francene (06:13):
bug.
Yeah.
I feel everything after C is,our bodies just aren't, I don't
know.
I feel like my body is trying tobuild up a tolerance again of
all the bugs out there that I'venever been more sick with bugs
than I have over the last likenine months.
donna (06:34):
Yes, the same.
And I had Covid just before you.
Yeah.
And it took us months to getbetter.
I haven't been exercising.
I take my puppy to the dog parkand I don't even take him for a
long walk after that.
Yeah.
So it really has up me.
And then I have a cold, I can'tremember the last time I had a
(06:56):
cold.
So it's, it's the same here.
And apparently yesterday, um,somebody said that, um, the, um,
sorry.
Um, PO's backing Newcastleagain, it's running rampant.
You know, it goes throughstages.
(07:18):
Yes.
So, um, it's, it's back hereagain.
I'm like, no, I did not want it.
I know.
francene (07:25):
It's, it's like I feel we went through phases of being
like, okay, we have this undercontrol.
We should be good.
And then certainly, I mean,yeah, similar to you, like when
I got it, there were so manycases here in the US it's, I'm
surprised people that haven'thad it, haven't had it yet.
donna (07:51):
Of all people.
My mom is the only one out ofour, our whole family who hasn't
had covid, you know, with, uh,the youngest is 18.
Yeah.
And my husband's nearly 60, andthen my mom's 73 and she, she
hasn't had it, which is good forher.
francene (08:09):
Yeah, it is.
Hopefully that continues.
Mm.
Fingers.
Um, well I really appreciate youtaking time out to speak with
me, um, and especially to comeon my podcast, real beauty.
Yes.
Thank
donna (08:23):
you for having
francene (08:24):
me.
Um, and certainly, I know we'regonna go into this in more
detail, but just for thelisteners, um, out there, I was
able to be introduced to Donnavia her brand, um, which we will
talk about in a second.
And I've been loving it andactually I have it in front of
me.
Ah, good.
And I don't, I don't have therose spray because I actually
(08:44):
keep that in my handbag.
Um, cuz I use Ah, that's a goodidea.
Constantly.
It's amazing.
Um, but anyway, let me kick itoff.
So, Donna, welcome to RealBeauty with fd, a place where we
discuss what beauty means to us,whether it's a product that
sells out every second aroundthe world, or it's a cult
(09:07):
classic to discussing bodypositivity, to building
incredible brands.
We are here to find your littleblack dress in skincare makeup,
and more importantly, promotinghappiness within your own skin
and owning it each episode andbringing in a new personality to
discuss all things beauty andtouch on their inspiring
(09:27):
stories.
So Donna, the question I askeveryone to kick it off is, um,
what does beauty
donna (09:34):
mean to you?
I think beauty is confidence,and that's confidence in your
own skin.
Doesn't matter what skin it is,what hair color, what your age
is.
I think it's confidence.
Yeah,
francene (09:50):
I completely agree.
And owning that confidence.
donna (09:55):
Yes.
Cause matter Yes.
Well, when you feel confident,you know, when you look good,
you feel confident.
So it really goes hand in hand.
And I think that's, um, a partof an, it's about that self care
and, um, making yourself feelgood and look good, which is
(10:18):
then portrayed to everybody elsethat you meet.
francene (10:22):
Yeah, it is.
It's crazy how like, and I'vespoken about this with another
guest, but when you see thatkind of confidence within
someone, it just like oozes outof them.
It's like a flow of it's energy.
Yeah.
Yes.
I feel you just wanna be aroundthose individuals.
It's a great, great place to be.
donna (10:43):
Yes.
Yes.
So that, that's what I thinkbeauty is.
I love
francene (10:48):
that.
So tell me what made you come upwith the brand and on, and like
what, what does it mean
donna (10:56):
to you?
Okay, so I am a BD therapist andI started when I was 17 years
old and I had acne and a lot ofbeauty therapy students get acne
cuz they get a lot ofoverstimulation of the skin
because we have to practice oneach other regularly.
(11:18):
So, you know, you, you tend tobe at that age where you have a
few spots anyway and it reallyexasperates and then when you
throw in stress, I started myown business virtually straight
out of beauty school.
I was one week in.
So after graduating within aweek I owned my own business,
(11:40):
which is where I used to work ona Thursday night, Saturday
morning role.
Wow.
So, um, my skin was bad and Icame top of my beauty school, so
I had a really goodunderstanding of skin.
I also sold a German skincareproduct that I had a very good
(12:03):
understanding of product andskin.
And I was in the top 10 sellersin Australia at age 18, and I
got a free trip to Germany to gotour the factory.
Yeah.
So I had this combination of theknowledge.
Um, I had a love of everythingnatural.
(12:23):
When I was young, I'd wash myhair in my dad's beer and I'd
put oats in the bath.
I was always in trouble fortaking stuff outta pantry,
writing the grocer
francene (12:36):
in the bath.
donna (12:39):
So, um, I discovered aromatherapy.
I was really starting to feel abit disgruntled in the industry
of recommending products and theclients weren't getting the
results and my own skin beingbad.
That was a confidence factor forme that I didn't feel too
(13:03):
confident when I thought peoplewere looking at my skin going,
well, you've got bad skin.
How can you recommend this?
Yeah, so I started to experimentwith my own skin and that's when
an art was born.
Now, I don't know if we havediscussed this and odd is Donna
(13:24):
said back.
francene (13:25):
I love this so much.
So when we were going back andforth over Instagram, you said
that, and I was like, and Ithink I said this to you, I was
like, oh my God, how did I notsee this
donna (13:37):
Of course it's,
francene (13:38):
but I did wonder when I was reading up about the
product, and obviously I've beenusing the cleanser and also, um,
the Rose Toner, um, which is anincredible mist and very, very
hydrating, especially living inTexas over the summer.
It has been amazing and myskin's been very up and down,
(14:01):
mainly due to hormones lately.
So you, ah, a clean product.
I can tell how much of adifference that makes on my
skin.
But yeah, looking at it, I waslike, oh, of course it's Donna
myself.
donna (14:18):
Yeah, so that's where Anno was born.
It was started as an experimentfor my own skin and then like
within a week you could see thedifference in my skin.
And customers started to commentand then they would say, make me
something.
And there's, you know, most ofthe products in the range have
(14:38):
been born from a particularclient's skin.
Mm-hmm.
that we were having an issuewith.
And it's the same issues thatevery skin has.
The skin's not particularlydifferent from anybody.
They all need either moisture oroil.
(14:58):
And just getting that balanceright for your skin creates that
ha happy, healthy skin.
You know, your skin's an organ,so we need to treat it exactly
like we treat the other organswithin our body.
francene (15:13):
Yeah.
Which is, um, I'm sure for a lotof people listening, it's um,
it's crazy how much of adifference if your skin, say if
you have like a hormonal pimpleor you suffer from acne or acne
or whatever it is.
Personally, to me, it makes mefeel so down.
(15:34):
Like it makes it down and Idon't typically suffer from bad
skin.
But when it's bad to me, Igenerally, I don't wanna go out,
I don't wanna see people.
And I'm also very conscious of.
Covering it up because then Ifeel like I'm amplifying the
problem.
Like I feel like it's morevisible.
Like I don't do my makeup thebest.
(15:55):
So when I put on concealer over,you know, a pimple, I feel like
I'm like, oh God, I feel likeI've put like a target on the
pimple
donna (16:03):
Yeah.
It's a sign Yes.
Look at this.
Yeah.
And one of the difficultiesthat, like I, I've been in the
beauty industry from, I was, uh,I got off the school bus Friday
afternoon and I got on thebeauty school bus Monday morning
and I was 17 years old, so, um,I'm now 55.
(16:27):
And so I have spoken to a lot ofwomen about their skin, how they
feel, how it makes us feel.
And one of the things that Ireally notice with women is
we're so hard on ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, our expectations are muchhigher.
For ourselves, them, what theywould be for a friend.
(16:50):
Like, you know, you spoke to meabout having a spot.
If you said to your friend, ohmy God, look at this spot.
She'd go, oh, I can't see it.
Yeah.
But whereas, yes, yes.
So the one thing that we tend todo is we face the mirror.
Um, now we use centimeters here,so you may have to convert for
(17:13):
me.
You know, we put our face to themirror, you know, five
centimeters from the mirror, um,to have a look at the skin.
And we can see every floor,every, you know, whereas when
we're face to face, you know,wear a good meter.
Well actually now with Covid,we're meter and a half ideally.
(17:36):
Yeah.
So I think that's one of thethings.
And a pimple is a way of yourbody.
To tell you something's wrongand um, I've always been inter
natural holistic.
So I'm trained in Chinese facediagnosis.
So there are certain areas inthe, the face that will show you
(17:56):
what part of your body is atDisre.
So, oh my gosh, yes.
So hormonal pimples will runalong the jaw line there and
down into the neck area
francene (18:09):
through here.
I have one here.
I know no one, no one else
donna (18:13):
can see it.
Yes.
No one can see it other than
francene (18:15):
here.
Oh my God.
Yes, I get it
donna (18:18):
here.
Yes.
So what you need there is, andit's just your body's way of
expelling what it doesn't needyour skin's excretory organ.
So you want things to, one ofthe biggest things for your
skin, particularly when you havespots like.
Most people will not want tomoisturize because they think
(18:39):
that they're going to to feedit.
Yeah.
That's not the case.
The more moist the skin is,which you're talking about our
hydrating rose mist.
Yeah.
That's helping your skin to healbecause we're adding moisture,
um, where soothing, cooling theskin with that product as well.
But you know, things like ourgreen clay mask are fabulous
(19:02):
through that area, um, becauseyou know, you spot a combination
of a bit of bacteria, a hormonallump, um, swelling from the
lymphatic system.
So your skin is always in astate of having some sort of
healing
francene (19:17):
you got me all excited about the Chinese reading and I
was like, I've never heard ofthis
donna (19:24):
So I have always, uh, worked with natural ingredients
and um, natural techniques andI'm trained in Chinese face
diagnosis and talking about yourspot under the chin there.
That's the hormonal area.
Now under the jawline, from thesides of the ears under the
(19:46):
jawline down to the sides of theneck, that will be the area
where the body will tell youwhen the hormones are out of
whack.
And one of the things withspots, I mean, I'm 55 and I can
still get a spot come up on myskin cuz it's your body's way of
telling you that there issomething wrong and out of
(20:06):
balance.
Yeah.
Your skin being an excreteorgan.
So the thing that people tend towant to do with the skin is,
particularly if you have a spotto avoid moisture.
Yeah.
Now you are moisturizing, um,your skin needs to heal and it's
in a constant state of, of oftenneeding to heal from different,
(20:28):
um, events that have taken placeto our, um, emotional lives,
different events that have takenplace to our environmental
lives.
So there's, there's alwayssomething that the body will
show you.
So you've got the hormonal outof whack at the moment.
Yeah.
One of the things is you aremissed is very important cuz
(20:51):
it's going to keep healing andhydrating the skin.
Our green clean mask is alsovery absorbent.
Um, And will help to take thepinkness out, take the soreness.
Cause hormones can, the hormonalspot can get quite sore as well.
Wow.
Cause there's a lot of swelling.
Yeah.
(21:11):
Yes.
A lot of swelling in it.
And there's no actual openingfor a core or, um, infection to
come out.
So the fastest way to heal thatis your moisture and products
that are about healing.
I love a little bit of lavenderdab directly onto the spot.
(21:31):
That's nice and nice andhealing.
Um, another area that you'lloften see people will have spots
is the side of the mouth.
Just under the lips.
Yeah.
There's two circles and the bitin the middle will stay clear.
Mm-hmm.
And what'll happen is you willget a spot in that area two to
(21:55):
three weeks.
After the event.
Now the event could be good.
It could be a wedding, it couldbe moving house, but anytime the
body goes into that stress mode,whether adrenaline kicks in,
when the adrenaline calms downtwo to three weeks, that's where
those spots will show up.
No way.
(22:17):
Oh my gosh.
That's how predictable the skinis, and I know there's a lot of
information in our industry.
A lot of it's incorrect.
The skin is virtually the sameon every person as the next
person.
It's only different times.
(22:37):
It'll need more moisture versusmore oil according to the season
and according to what's happenedin your life at that.
francene (22:46):
Yeah, and that's what I was gonna mention.
I appreciate you saying likeseasons.
Um, cuz I'm originally fromScotland and we moved over to
Texas about eight and a halfyears ago.
And in Scotland it's obviouslydrier, you know, it's a lot
harsher weather conditions.
My skin was a lot drier.
(23:07):
I eat, I would struggle withlike truly dry skin, it would
flake.
And then moving out here whereit's so humid, I have like the
opposite.
So very oily skin, which I'm,I'm actually okay with.
I prefer oily skin to, um, youknow, dry skin.
Yeah,
donna (23:25):
it'll, it'll.
Wrinkles cuz you've got more oilto keep the skin more supple.
Yes.
Never be afraid of a bit of oil.
francene (23:33):
Yeah.
This is why I'm like, I'll takethe humidity and the hotness,
but I'm always very consciousthat even here when we get into,
you know, fall and winter ischanging up my skin care
routine, knowing that theweather will affect my skin.
Um, so what advice do you havewhen you are, you know, kind of
changing seasons?
(23:54):
What should you be kind ofchanging in your skincare or
being more conscious of?
donna (24:01):
I actually run a skincare club and our clients have a
delivery every three months, soobviously that's seasonal.
So we will swap out theirproducts according to the
season.
Um, for us coming into summer,we will swap out their, their
cleanser.
(24:21):
Yeah.
Um, if the skin is a lot morecombination, we'll also swap out
their mist because that's partof the cleansing routine.
Yeah.
And then we will swap out theirmoisturizing, um, cream and
moisturizing oil.
They have both a cream and anoil cuz that's the perfect
combination for the skin.
(24:42):
And then things like coming intosummer, we're saying to our
customers at the moment, right,you need to exfoliate more
because if you have an oily skinin summer, the oil will make
everything stick to the surfaceof the skin more soap.
Whereas if you going intowinter, your skin will need more
masking and.
(25:04):
Oil based products, you know,more deep nourishment.
So depending upon the seasonsummer, your skin's gonna need
more hydration, morebrightening.
We'll swap our clients from ourregenerative lavender exfoliant
and we'll swap'em across todetoxifying lemon exfoliant
(25:24):
because you know, you're gonnabe wearing sunblock, which is a
lot of chemicals for the skin,more oil flow and, um,
pigmentation.
So we're going to swap, youknow, brightening for
regeneration.
francene (25:39):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
And the other thing I reallyappreciate about your website is
you have it, you can obviouslyshop like the skincare, um, you
know, any kind of skincareproducts, but you also have it
by skin concern.
So if you're like arly skin oryou know, dry skin, you give
(26:00):
recommendations of what youwould use for that, which I
appreciate.
Yes.
donna (26:07):
Because what, like, that's a question a lot of women
have asked me over the years.
What's my skin type, Donna?
Yeah.
Now we all are a combination ofeverything.
There's no such thing as justdry, just oily, but you have
bigger areas that are oily.
So in oily skin, we woulddetermine is you have open
(26:28):
pores, you have open flow.
Now most people have only.
A T-zone.
It can be narrow, it can bewide, but if you have more of
that area than dryer areas, weclassify the products to use,
uh, for the oily skin.
So I will swap into, um, some ofthose products for summertime
(26:52):
just to keep, you know,brightening and texture down.
And then winter time I'll moveback onto the more nourishing
anti-aging product.
francene (27:05):
Yeah.
No, that's, that's awesome.
That's, um, great advice.
Um, the other thing I wanted torandomly ask you is, I know you
guys have, um, like body care aswell, um mm-hmm.
so obviously not just a face,but your body too.
And I know some women can sufferfrom like acne or breakouts,
(27:30):
like on your chest area or youknow, on your back.
What would you like, what advicewould you give to individuals
that have that cause especiallyin the summer months in winter,
it's a lot easier to cover up.
Um, but I feel in the summermonths, it's something that can
make people feel reallyself-conscious about and they
don't, again, I don't thinkthere's enough information out
(27:53):
there to be able to helpindividuals with, well, what do
I do about my body?
donna (27:58):
you know, Well, one of the things is you can't strip
the skin, so a lot of the washesare very stripping.
Anything that foams on the skinwith a big foam is going to
strip it because that will, it'san alkaline and your skin's an
acid.
So stop stripping number one.
(28:19):
Yeah, moisturize number two.
Yeah.
Um, and you are looking forproducts that are not occlusive.
You're avoiding products thatare fragranced.
We have a beautiful wash and wehave a charity here in Australia
called Legacy and they help theveterans.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the symbols for AnzacDay here in Australia is
(28:43):
Rosemary.
So I was asked by legacy to makeproducts that contain rosemary.
And so that's what our body washis.
Donating money to the charity aswell as cleaning the skin
without stripping the skin.
Exfoliation is another part,particularly the chairs, the top
(29:04):
of the shoulders.
I would treat that as yourfacial skin.
Okay.
So yeah, so give a little, um,facial treatment.
Do a good cleanse on it.
Exfoliate mask it.
And because that skin is verysimilar to, um, you've got.
Pause of oil and, um, sweatglands through that area.
(29:28):
So I, that's how I'd be treatingit exactly like you would the
ones on your face and don't useanything that's really going to
strip the skin.
francene (29:38):
Okay.
That is very, very good advice.
Um, I'm always conscioussometimes that when we are
talking about especially skincare, that um, again, we speak
about the face and we don'tnecessarily cover the body.
Um, which to your point, skin isa big organ, right?
Like we need to make sure thatwe're covering all bases.
(30:01):
Um, So the other thing I wantedto ask you, cuz I saw that you
have a Levon collagen mask.
Oh yes.
And also you also have likeother masks, like you mentioned,
the green clay and the pinkclay.
Um, so what would you recommendfor people using the collage of
mask?
Is that more obviouslyanti-aging?
(30:24):
Would you recommend like acertain age to be kinda using
those types of products?
donna (30:30):
It is, yes, it's part of our anti-aging range because it,
it contains the collagen, sowe're always looking to keep our
collagen production up, but it'sabout hydrating, so it's a boost
for the skin.
So we recommend that you sleepin it three nights a week.
You can also use it as a primerfor makeup.
(30:51):
Makeup needs to sit onto a moistskin.
If the skin is dehydrated, yourmakeup will suck.
Right?
And it looks patchy.
Yeah.
If your skin is oily and yourdehydrated, your makeup will
slide all over the face cuz it'ssitting on top of the excess
(31:14):
oil.
So the Lev Oncology is a greatprimer for that, and what we
recommend is our products.
Our moisturizing and levon maskis in an airless pump.
So it's just one pump if you'regoing to use it as a primer, and
two to three, if you're going touse it as a leave on mask
(31:34):
because you want it to sit ontothe skin and absorb in.
It also contains lavender andangular, which are regenerative
for the cells, but it's a musclerelaxant.
It's very calming for the mind.
And so a lot of women talk aboutthey love it at night because
it's that routine, that ritual,that smell.
(31:54):
Yeah.
That says to them, you're goingto bed now.
francene (31:58):
Yeah, it is.
Um, it's, it's nice when youhave that routine.
Like, I have this lavenderspray, um, and I spray it on my
pillows before, you know, whenI'm kind of getting organized
and I
donna (32:10):
smell it and it's, yes, it's ritual.
And that's really importantbecause the other thing that's
important for the skin is sleep.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, your skin will do it.
It's most repairing at night, soyou need to have a, a nice
restful sleep.
francene (32:30):
Yeah, there is nothing.
So I love my sleep and Idefinitely go to bed, um, at
very reasonable hour.
Like, I'm tired by like nine, soI'm definitely not a party
animal.
Um, but on the days, if I dostay up or we have a four and a
half year old and sometimes, youknow, she has her, you know, a
(32:51):
nightmare, whatever it is, evenjust missing out on a couple of
hours the next day, it is socrazy how like, just so
obviously the bags under myeyes, like my skin just looks
like gray.
I just, I notice it so muchmore.
It doesn't look radiant.
It doesn't look like wellrested.
(33:11):
Like it's very obvious.
donna (33:13):
Yes.
Because you've missed some ofthat repair time.
You've, um, just changed thebody clock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sleep is, is crucial.
And one of the, the.
Parts of getting a good sleep isthat routine, like you're
saying, you spray your pillowdown, so it just starts telling
(33:34):
your mind and your body what'sto come and to slow down and,
you know, no screens in bed.
And so it's, I need to be better
francene (33:44):
with that.
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