TIGGER WARNING EPISODE
Part Two of my episode with Cait - go find her at DUE TO JOY
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, welcome to real BT with FD.
This is episode 10.
Yay.
And we are at week ofThanksgiving in the us.
So hopefully my listeners areable to take some well-deserved
time off.
Um, and they're able to spend itwhat their loved ones or friends
(00:20):
or family.
And I really You are able justto enjoy that time and truly
feel thankful for everything youhave and take that moment of
gratitude.
This is a holiday that we don'thave in the UK.
And I remember moving over tothe us.
We moved in August of 2014.
(00:42):
And every single Thanksgiving wehave spent with different
families, different friends.
And honestly, knowing that wedon't have family here, we've
created such a great community.
And now I actually prefer thisholiday over Christmas.
Um, I will wait.
I will caveat Bab.
(01:02):
Because now we have Luna andshe's older.
And she's really into like themagic of Christmas and we get to
do like all the incrediblethings and we've had Alf.
R R L since the 1st of November.
So I really do embrace it.
So let me say that I, I loveChristmas and even more so now
because she brings the magic tous.
(01:23):
But I love Thanksgiving becauseit truly is about being thankful
for what.
You have, and the people aroundyou.
Instead of Christmas that I feelsometimes you just get too
caught up with.
The need to buy stuff.
Um, buy stuff for other peoplein your family that it's
sometimes can create a bit morekind of stress.
(01:45):
Um, instead of just trulyenjoying it.
So one of the things I've doneThat I swear.
I promise here now you all canhold me accountable.
I'm going to do this.
Moving forward is.
I wrapped and bought all myChristmas presents.
Like literally the first week ofNovember, in fact, I finished it
(02:08):
like the end of October and thenwrapped them first week of
November.
So I feel really small rightnow.
And really organized.
And I'm literally going to dothat every year.
Like the only thing I need to dois get stuff for like Luna's
teachers, which is fine.
'cause it's, you know, somethingsmall and I'm like easy now.
And I can do that in like kindof one batch, but anyway, Highly
(02:31):
recommend it.
So.
Going in back into, um, myconversation.
Just again, a trigger warningthat I mentioned on the last
podcast, but just to say foranyone that might be a little
bit sensitive to this topic ofdiscussion, which is around the
(02:53):
loss of.
Uh, child miscarriage, aquaticpregnancy.
I strongly recommend.
You skip over this episode.
And then, um, I will be backwith a different guest next
week, but if you're able to.
Because I really.
But I appreciate people dealwith.
(03:14):
You know, different subjectsdifferently, and sometimes you,
you just don't want to hearabout it.
It brings up too much emotion,but.
I really do want this to be atopic of conversation that.
We are able to talk about andnot feel.
Ashamed or that we shouldn't bespeaking about it or it's too
sensitive.
It's, you know, this happens topeople.
(03:36):
Um, it's very rare and Caltechpregnancies happen to 1% of, um,
the population.
And well, Like women.
Um, and then, so Ms.
Hodges, I believe it's like onein five.
I need to double check thatstatistic, but.
Anyway, um, I appreciate youbeing here and listening to this
(03:59):
and please, you know, I'm alwaysopen for discussions,
conversations around thissubject.
Um, never, you know, be afraidto reach out to me regardless of
your opinion and view.
So, um, I really appreciate Um,enjoy.
cait (04:18):
but I would say something to myself each day of, like,
today I am pregnant.
Mm-hmm.
because I could not go theretomorrow.
Like I could, we can't step intotomorrow and know what it will
look like for us.
And so I would say I'm okay.
I'm safe today.
I'm pregnant.
And um, I'm loved, like I wouldjust say things that I knew I
(04:42):
easily forget, like I'm notalone.
Yeah.
That.
Something I'm tethered to islike the first lie that I
believe is like, you're alone.
No one else feels this way.
Yeah.
You're, you're just, you know,like you're overreacting or
things like that.
And talking with friends who hadgone before me and had
(05:05):
pregnancies after loss or had,um, also experienced a loss like
that was such a community.
I'm so thankful for in that timeand even still now, like there's
a whole online community.
I don't know if you've tappedinto yet, but there's I
francene (05:26):
have, I've been trying to, Yeah,
cait (05:28):
yeah.
There wasn't seven, six yearsago.
Yeah.
And so it like makes my heartjust explodes seeing how, how
many people are dedicated tothis cause of like, you don't
have to do this alone.
Yeah, I agree.
Facebook support groups.
There's Instagram accounts,TikTok accounts, like any,
(05:50):
anywhere on the internet.
You look, blogs all over thatyou can, um, read and be
inspired by their stories.
And so not to say that liketheir story will be my story,
but it is encouraging.
It does.
Hope to see someone who's gonebefore.
Yeah.
That helped a lot.
Whenever I was pregnant withStella, I was scrounging around
(06:13):
the internet.
Yeah.
Cause if I didn't have anyone inmy life personally that had done
that, then it's sort of, you canonly take so much like well
wishes and, you know.
francene (06:26):
Yeah.
It's, it's true.
Um, And yeah, I definitelyappreciate the access that we
have online.
Mm-hmm.
if you are not able to kindafind that support or maybe
you're not as comfortable tospeak about it, is you can find
that comfort through storiesand, you know, different
(06:48):
networks, um, which is, isawesome, right?
Like there's something out therefor everyone.
Um, But speaking of, you know,kind of friends and, um, the
kinda support, um, that you kindof got through this, um,
Sometimes people mean well, andthey, they say things and you
(07:11):
think, Oh, okay.
Um, like I know I, a lot ofpeople say to me like, Well, at
least you know you can getpregnant.
Oh.
I'm like, Yes.
I just can't keep it.
But yes,
cait (07:26):
I like,
francene (07:27):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
But, um, But, but it's, it's,it's interesting the things
that, um, and again, I, I don'twant this to come across for
anyone listening that they'relike, Gosh, I can't say
anything.
But it's, um, it, it's obviouslya very sensitive subject and
especially between women.
It's like, we wanna say stuffthat's comforting, right?
(07:48):
Um, But again, it's, it's, insome situations it's like, well,
again, at least you can getpregnant and, you know, just try
again.
It'll be okay.
And um, and I think.
To me, it's like you just needpeople to listen at the
beginning.
That's, um, yeah.
And you wanna hear stories frompeople that have gone through it
(08:13):
right.
To, to kind of connect and youhave that kind of credibility
that you're like, Okay, they,they kind understand what I'm
going through.
Um, but for me, for kinda othersis I just needed the kinda
listening and to be like, I'mhere for you and.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, I'm, I'm, I'm here.
Um, how, how did you kind offind that when you did kind of
(08:34):
come out and say, um, Yeah,
cait (08:39):
so that, I'm not gonna lie to you.
That part was really hard.
Yeah.
Of like friends who I know.
Love me deeply and like, wantthe best for me and are grieving
with me.
Yeah.
Sometimes we just say things.
Yeah, just word vomit.
It just comes out and it'scoming from a good place
wellbeing.
(09:00):
Um, but it doesn't take away thesting necessarily that.
Hearts feel.
Yeah.
Um, and so I would get a lot ofthings like, Oh, you'll get
pregnant again, I promise.
And I'm like, You can't makethat promise.
I know.
francene (09:15):
Don't make the promise me
cait (09:17):
or, or at least you can get pregnant.
That's a very common one.
And I'm like, Maybe don't say atleast, Yeah.
Just removed from our vocab So,Never ends well.
And so it's sort of likesomething that like I myself
(09:37):
would say to friends who weregoing through a hard time and
I've sort of really made theeffort to change my vocabulary
of like, yeah.
I will sit with you like I hurtwith you, like my heart breaks
for you and I'm sorry thatyou're going through this.
Like those are some things thatyou can't go wrong.
(09:57):
Saying those things I'm droppingoff dinner, like those kinds of
things.
A tangible gift or something toremember their baby by um, is
always helpful.
But I think as far as what notto say, I think there's this
unspoken assumption that peoplemake about miscarriage,
(10:20):
pregnancy loss, um, or any typeof grief that, um, Like once a
certain amount of time passes.
Yeah.
It's like, time to move on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They don't know how to breach inand be like, Are you good?
Like, how are you gonna bedoing?
And so, um, or they don't wantto make us sad or remind us
(10:41):
about it, but like the truth ofit is we haven't forgotten
anything like it is right here.
Yeah.
In our face every day.
Sometimes we're still physicallyhealing.
Yeah.
And so, If you're wondering ifyou should check in on a friend
who has shared their loss withyou, the answer has not to
(11:04):
trigger them or remind them ofit.
They've, they've been remindedevery day.
It's, it hasn't left them.
Um, but I don't think you can gowrong with getting out of your
comfort zone and pressing intothat uncomfortable place of.
I don't know what to say and Ifeel like I don't have the right
(11:24):
words, but I love you and I'mhere for you.
francene (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's powerful.
I, oh my gosh, I wholeheartedlyagree.
And I, I think I messaged thisyesterday, um, to is like, I, I
did find like an overwhelming,like love initially when, you
know, so many people reached outand obviously again, I publicly
said something on Instagram.
(11:47):
Mm-hmm.
Like I publicly kind of statedit and tried to kind of do it
from an education standpoint.
Um, so so many people reachedout and like my friends, they
were great and I got greatstories, but I then kind of feel
now it's as if, okay, I'vespoken about it.
I don't wanna speak about againcause it's not a nice subject
and it's awkward.
(12:08):
Mm-hmm.
you know what I mean?
It's like you kind of feel, andin a way I also, I was telling,
um, like my husband, I'm like, Ialso don't wanna be that friend
where someone gets pregnant.
They're like, Shit, we can't sayanything in front of, Right.
Cause you're like, No, trust me.
Like I, I can feel the love forother people and I've always
been that way.
Like, I, I find happiness when Isee people happy.
(12:33):
But it's like you, you don'twanna be kind of that person
where they all start kind oftalking about like trying for a
baby and then it's.
Yeah.
Cause you wanna speak about it.
And again, the whole purpose ofme talking and being so open was
I'm, I'm okay to speak aboutthis.
This is how I'm healing.
Yes.
But if you don't and we don'tacknowledge it, it kind of puts
(12:55):
it back into, you should feelshameful for this happening or
talking about it.
Um, And that's another reasonwhy I wanted to kind of do this
podcast episode was I know it'snot just me that feels that way.
cait (13:11):
Absolutely.
Oh my goodness.
I can't tell you how many timesI've, I've spoken with someone
and they're like, I just feellike I can't.
Yeah.
Even though I have in the pastand it's been a screen light,
like, yeah, say it, but then nowI'm just like, I don't wanna be
that guy.
You know?
Like and I, that resonates somuch.
I remember after.
(13:32):
Sharing.
I just sort of felt like noone's gonna feel like they
should invite me to their babyshower cause they don't wanna
hurt my feelings.
Yeah.
Or, and like, very well youcould decline a baby shower and
be totally justified and kindabout it and all that, but um,
there's sort of this like,Buffer zone of like, they don't
(13:54):
wanna get too close to my mess,but they also don't wanna, they
love me and don't wanna hurt me.
Yeah.
So it's, it's tough.
And I, I can feel empathy forfriends who want to support
Yeah.
People they love who arehurting.
Um, and so there's, there's somany things.
(14:17):
Yeah, I, I'm still learning as afriend of people who are
hurting.
Yeah.
There's graces on all sides
francene (14:24):
for, for sure.
And, um, to that point, and Iknow you mentioned this earlier
too, is I feel going throughthis, it gives me a different
empathy for people going throughloss in general.
Um, and I, I always feel likeI'm empathetic and like.
(14:45):
I have a lot of feelings, buteven just as we're talking
about, you know, how to wordthings, how much we're kind of
reaching out and I even lookback and think, gosh, there was
probably situations that I couldhave handled better or, you
know, done something more.
Um, That I think, you know, it'salways in life, right?
(15:08):
We get these lessons.
Yeah, we learn them and we'relike, Oh, damn, if only had
known this like ages ago.
Um, and this is the only way wecan kind of evolve and develop.
And like, I appreciate that, um,and I appreciate that growth.
Um, but it does, going throughthis, it does make you kinda
look back or if your friendsreach out and say, I went
(15:29):
through a miscarriage too.
You're like, Gosh, why didn'tyou say something and then get
back and you think, Yeah,actually you were like a little
bit disconnected and I didn'tthink anything of it.
Or we're so in our own littlebubble that we're self-absorbed.
Sometimes you're like, Oh myGod, what's wrong with blah
blah, blah?
Why are they not coming outpersonally?
Yes.
And then.
(15:50):
Yeah, it, it kind of puts stuffinto perspective, but it even
made me sad when I heard some ofmy friends who'd gone through
this and even I'D one individualthat I work with, and again, I
was very open, you know, I toldmy manager and.
You know, I'm just an openperson and she was like, Gosh, I
(16:11):
can't believe you told work.
Like, I can't believe you saidsomething, but why would you
not?
Yeah, why would you not?
You know, this is, if we're notwilling to say we're not helping
society grow and companies growand, you know, address these
types of conversations in theoffice or at home.
(16:33):
Um, But anyway, it's just, it's,yeah, it's, it's interesting,
um, the reactions and again, howI felt about individuals that I
was like, Gosh, if I'd known, I,yeah, I, I would've done
something.
And I feel sad that they had togo through that loan.
cait (16:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's like my, my whole heartbehind sort of the care package
portion of, um, due to joy.
I had so many friends a couplesummers ago just back to back to
back lose babies, likethroughout their pregnancy.
Multiple friends that were likevery close, like in my close
(17:09):
circle of friends, and I justremember feeling helpless.
I have to do something.
Two of them lived sort of on theother side of Texas, so I
couldn't like go there and bewith them and watch their other
kids and all that.
So, um, so basically the carepackages that I create, it has
something like a little bit ofself care, a little bit of soul
(17:32):
care, like journals to sort ofprocess your grief and all that.
And so I put together what Iwish I would've.
In that time.
And so that was so the, theheart of empathy of like, I have
friends who I love who are goingthrough it and I don't know what
(17:53):
to do.
And I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson who doesn't know what to
do.
Yeah.
And I still struggle to find theexact words.
There's no perfect words.
But, um, that really resonatesthat feeling of like, even
looking back, like there, thereare situations I've been in.
Maybe I did say at least blah,blah, blah,
francene (18:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I'm sure I did too.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, I'm gra glad youbrought up the packages cuz
again, when we connected and Isaw this, I was like, God,
that's so genius.
Cuz again, we're talking aboutthe things that, you know, you,
you can say, or how to showsupport.
This is an incredible way ofshowing support that's not
(18:37):
sending flowers or, you know,it, it's something else.
It's, it's, that's a lot moremeaningful.
And as you mentioned, you havelike journals, different things
kind of in these packages, buteven like, The most durable
necklace and like plantableseed, paper and candle and
chocolate.
And it's, it's like, honestly,when I look at this, I'm like,
(18:59):
Yeah, that probably would'velike, made my day, like
essential oils.
Um, like it's just such athoughtful gift.
Um, but on top of that, you alsohave care packages for.
Men.
Mm-hmm.
some recent one.
Yeah.
And you know, it was interestinghow many people reached out to
(19:22):
me.
and it was all about me, right.
And my husband was like, youknow, there's been like some
great people reaching out to me,but he was like, No one talks
about the guy.
Yeah.
I was like, And it's true, likeyes, we are physically going
through it, but you think aboutall the dads out there and this
is what they've been longingfor.
(19:43):
And then they get the news,they're with the journey and
they're like an observer.
Yeah.
And they're pained cuz theycan't take away.
Your wife's pain or yourpartner's pain, but they're
going through it and no onetruly is like, Hey, dad, are,
are you doing okay?
Um, and even from like a supportperspective and you know,
(20:07):
society, I think men are gettingthere where they're a bit more
open.
Um, And I would say my husbandhas great relationships with his
friends, and again, he was open,discussed it, but I love the
fact you have something for mentoo.
Um, like that is awesome.
Um, and I truly think like thishelps.
(20:29):
Um,
cait (20:30):
it's so needed and, and there's such a gap in the
support area of even online.
Like you'll see things gearedtoward.
Mothers who have lost a baby.
Um, but just sort of how, likethe conversation that happens
online and in person is someonewill go to the dad and say,
How's your wife?
Yeah.
(20:51):
Not how are you?
francene (20:53):
Yeah.
Or at least like, so here,here's another top tip for the
listeners, Make sure you'relike, How are you both doing
Well, what can we do for, forboth of you?
Because, um, I will, and youknow this too, with your
partner.
Mm-hmm.
guys feel that loss too.
Like they, they really do.
(21:15):
And even, um, like the secondtime or like the second time
after my miscarriage, I gotpregnant.
When I told my husband even hewas like, I'm scared to get
excited.
Yes.
So it's like they're, they'refeeling it and.
You know, I would highlyrecommend that you know if,
again, depending on howcomfortable you are, kind of
(21:37):
relying on your friends or yournetwork, ensure that you are
having that dialogue with yourspouse.
Yes.
Back and forth.
Like, it's not just how you arefeeling, it's ensuring that
you're pulling it out of yourpartner.
So you're, you're both havingthat dialogue and you know, kind
of talking, cuz I think.
(21:57):
again, it's hard to sometimesget wrapped up in your own loss
mm-hmm.
and to go down the, well, it'snot your body.
And I'm the one feeling thephysical pain and you know, the
heart pain, but they are too.
It's just not physical.
cait (22:13):
Right.
I think it's, it's probably evenlayers of grief where.
Men typically grievedifferently.
They maybe aren't as expressive.
It probably depends on the guy,but my husband is not as
emotional and I'm, I swing thependulum like I'm real emotional
or I'm like, I don't care aboutanything.
(22:35):
Yeah.
And so, um, and so yeah, it's,it's probably hard for them cuz.
May feel like, Well, I don'twanna show emotion because I
don't wanna upset her.
Yeah.
Or make her think it's herfault.
And so I think just in my ownpersonal marriage, my husband
felt a lot of that.
Like, yes, guys would check on,or our friends would check on me
(22:58):
only.
Yeah.
And he's hurting, not asphysically, but he, It hurts him
to watch me in so much pain.
So yes, our physical bodies sortof bear the most of it, but I
think the emotional it's guysaren't left out in.
(23:20):
Feeling the effects of loss.
And so it's, it became soimportant to me to, um, find
some kind of tangible like, Hey,I see you dad, like, yeah.
You also are not alone and we'renot gonna let you do this alone.
francene (23:35):
Yeah, Agreed.
That's why I love that you, um,have that plus you also have the
most adorable, um, Oh wait,sorry.
Before I go onto, You also onyour, um, site, you have
resources for grieving dads.
So, um, and I'll send theselinks afterwards, but again, I
think that's awesome that youhave those kind of resources
(23:57):
there.
Um, so again, if you knowanyone, um, you know, kind of
going through this make.
Please share this cuz this isgreat, great information.
Um, but I wa what I was gonnamention is you have the most
adorable DIY rainbow kids andthey're so sink and cute.
Um, and we, our house is likevery green.
(24:19):
Oh, I love it.
Green in our house.
So I saw you have like a greenonce.
I'm definitely gonna, um,Purchase that one.
I'll hook you up.
Yes.
Yeah, they're super, super cute.
Um, and again, I'm sure, youknow, it's, it's an adorable
kind of thing to do, like withyour, um, family or, um, you
(24:40):
know, just for decor in general.
Um, again, it can be very kindameaningful, um, especially if
you're kind of going throughthis and again, you want to
kinda mark that and havesomething, um, Re remind you,
but Right.
You know.
Yeah.
So, no, I think, I think it'sawesome that you kind of create
(25:02):
this, and you've created like aspace where again, you're
willing to kind of talk aboutthis and promote these types of
discussions, but you also haveresources that people can
purchase and use, um, andprovide to others.
Kind of going through this.
Wonderful.
cait (25:20):
Thank you friend.
That's very sweet.
Um, the whole rainbow thing.
I know that can be sort of a, a,what is the word Not triggering,
but there's, there's somecontroversy on rainbow if it's.
Um, cuz rainbows aren'tguaranteed.
Sometimes people say thatRainbow is the baby born after
(25:41):
loss.
And so that's sort of what, um,Stella is to me.
Yeah.
Is the little rainbow baby.
Yeah.
But I do know that, um, Rainbowcan mean a lot of different
things for different people.
It can mean.
Holding onto hope.
Um, and it's not necessarily tosay that your baby that you lost
(26:01):
was a storm.
I don't think anyone who's losta baby would hold onto that
belief.
Um, but just the grief and theloss, um, Feels like a storm.
And so, um, that's why sort ofthis whole company started as a
blog and then it became themacrame rainbows and I made
(26:23):
thousands of rainbows, and thenI decided I'm gonna get
arthritis.
If I keep doing these
francene (26:29):
rainbows, they can make it.
cait (26:31):
So now it's DIY kits.
So
francene (26:35):
honestly, I think even, um, I mean, yeah.
Like anyone could go outtomorrow and buy one and it's
done.
It's great.
But I, I think even just beingable to make it yourself mm-hmm.
and go through the exercise.
And again, it can be somethingyou do in your own, It can be
something you do with your kids.
It can be something you do withyour spouse where you're able to
(26:57):
get all your friends.
Mm-hmm.
like I, I think, um, I honestlythink kind of doing something
like that and having a kit whereyou know, you can kind of
purchase, and again, it's, it'sa bit more like personal.
I actually really like that.
That's very sweet.
So yeah, despite obviously Idon't want you to have
arthritis, it's like I can't, Ithink it's, it's a good thing.
(27:20):
Um, um, so, Well, I, I really,really appreciate your time and
again, I know this was like areally heavy subject for this
morning, Um, Me too.
So, but I, like, I justappreciate being able to kind of
speak openly about this and, youknow, I've mentioned it so many
(27:41):
times during this conversation,just so important.
Mm-hmm.
like it really is, um, So to tryand get back on the
lightheartedness, um, I do havea quick fire round that I
typically do, so whatever popsinto your head, just go, go with
it.
All right.
Um, okay.
Favorite cocktail?
cait (28:02):
Ooh, uh, recently a pair mule.
francene (28:06):
Oh, oh yeah.
Okay.
You're in Houston, right?
cait (28:11):
I'm
francene (28:11):
in Cyprus.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Cause I'm
cait (28:17):
neighbors.
I love it.
I love the internet.
francene (28:20):
Oh my god.
I do.
Um, okay, great.
Cause, um, do you ever go toVintage Park?
Sometimes, yeah.
Oh my gosh.
They have like, great, likecocktail places.
Okay.
Um, oh my gosh.
Chef's table.
Oh, I have not been there.
It, it is really good.
They do like their food's great.
(28:40):
They do like a great happy hour.
But yeah, their cocktails arereally good.
Got it.
Writing that down.
Yay.
I'm speaking to someone in thatI can give recommendations.
Yeah.
Love it.
Um, okay.
Who would play you in a movie?
cait (28:55):
Oh, goodness.
Um, wow.
I've never thought about this.
Um, Goodness.
I don't know.
I have a girl crush on KristenBell, so Kristen.
francene (29:10):
Oh yes.
Do you know, um, I actuallythought you were about to say
Kristen Duns.
Oh, Kristen Duns.
They look like her.
cait (29:18):
Yeah, I've gotten that before.
francene (29:21):
You actually do.
That's why I was like, No way.
Or you're about to say KristenDuns.
Um, Forgot about.
Yeah.
Um, no, the good, good option,Kristen Bell.
Um, especially for kids, cuz I'msure they'd appreciate the
Annana
cait (29:37):
Anna in this house.
francene (29:38):
Us too.
I think I've seen honestly, allDisney movies.
I never thought I'd watch him asmuch as I have.
I probably know like all thewords.
I'm like super fan.
All parents are super fans, Bigfan.
Same.
Um, what is your most usedemoji?
cait (29:54):
Ooh.
Probably, I'm gonna say the.
Cow emoji recently.
My daughter was just a cow forHalloween, and so it's been like
spit by her cow emojis.
I was wondering where you're
francene (30:11):
going with that.
cait (30:14):
My daughters cows and she wears her costume every day
since, so,
francene (30:19):
Oh God, that's adorable.
Um, if you could relive one ofyour dreams over and over, what
would it.
Oh,
cait (30:28):
like a dream at night that you have?
francene (30:30):
Yeah.
cait (30:31):
Um, lots of flying dreams.
That's a recurring dream, likefloating in the sky, so would
love to be able to do that.
That's the only thing that comesto mind.
I don't really remember mydreams much, but that
francene (30:47):
do you know, I literally interviewed someone
like, um, a couple of months agoand he interprets your dreams.
Wow.
To be like, like what are youkind of subconsciously thinking
about?
What does it mean and.
Honestly, it was so damnfascinating.
Like, I'm obsessed with dreamsand when I wake up I will
typically kind of write downwhat it was I was thinking
(31:09):
about.
Or I wake my husband off and I'mlike, Oh my God, guess what just
happened?
Um,
cait (31:14):
I love it.
I should do that.
I should keep a notepad by mybed.
francene (31:17):
Yeah.
He actually recommended, um, hisname's Michael Lennox.
He recommended waking up anddrawing.
What, beyond the dream, but I'mlike, I'm the worst drawer.
Like, that'll be like scribbles.
Yeah.
Um, anyway, Um, and lastly, whatis your life motto or favorite
(31:38):
phrase that you live by?
cait (31:42):
Um, my favorite phrase, I don't know if it's a phrase, but
it's something that just pops upin every area of my life.
Um, just that you matter.
And that you're not alone.
That's like, I get that tattooedall over my body if I could
francene (32:01):
Love it.
Um, and it definitely resonatesthrough everything that you do.
So thank you so, so much again.
Um, and as we mentioned, I willbe kind of sending these links
out.
Um, so due to Joy, um, please gohave a look.
Um, At your profile, at thekits, um, and just know that I'm
(32:24):
sure you're open to kinda havingdiscussions and I am the same.
And to your point.
You're not alone.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not a No.
Our listeners.
So more than happy to kind of bethere for individuals that want
to kind of talk more about this.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but thank you so much forhaving this conversation with
me.
Of
cait (32:44):
course.
Thank you for having me.
I loved hanging out with you andchatting and Yeah.
So it's been,
francene (32:51):
Yay.
Me too.
And I can't believe you're soclose.
So yeah, I need to reach out toyou after this and um,
especially if you're kind ofnative to this area.
We've only been here for aboutnearly three years.
Oh.
And obviously Covid happens, sowe're still trying to kinda see
all the kind of hot spots andthings to do.
(33:12):
So
cait (33:13):
that's, Let's get together.
I would love that.
francene (33:16):
Yay.
Okay, let's do that.
Okay, well thank you so much.
Have a great day.
And, um, we will talk very.
Awesome.
Sounds great.
Bye bye.
Hey, welcome to real BT with FD.
This is episode 10.
Yay.
And we are at week ofThanksgiving in the us.
So hopefully my listeners areable to take some well-deserved
time off.
Um, and they're able to spend itwhat their loved ones or friends
(00:20):
or family.
And I really You are able justto enjoy that time and truly
feel thankful for everything youhave and take that moment of
gratitude.
This is a holiday that we don'thave in the UK.
And I remember moving over tothe us.
We moved in August of 2014.
(00:42):
And every single Thanksgiving wehave spent with different
families, different friends.
And honestly, knowing that wedon't have family here, we've
created such a great community.
And now I actually prefer thisholiday over Christmas.
Um, I will wait.
I will caveat Bab.
(01:02):
Because now we have Luna andshe's older.
And she's really into like themagic of Christmas and we get to
do like all the incrediblethings and we've had Alf.
R R L since the 1st of November.
So I really do embrace it.
So let me say that I, I loveChristmas and even more so now
because she brings the magic tous.
(01:23):
But I love Thanksgiving becauseit truly is about being thankful
for what.
You have, and the people aroundyou.
Instead of Christmas that I feelsometimes you just get too
caught up with.
The need to buy stuff.
Um, buy stuff for other peoplein your family that it's
sometimes can create a bit morekind of stress.
(01:45):
Um, instead of just trulyenjoying it.
So one of the things I've doneThat I swear.
I promise here now you all canhold me accountable.
I'm going to do this.
Moving forward is.
I wrapped and bought all myChristmas presents.
Like literally the first week ofNovember, in fact, I finished it
(02:08):
like the end of October and thenwrapped them first week of
November.
So I feel really small rightnow.
And really organized.
And I'm literally going to dothat every year.
Like the only thing I need to dois get stuff for like Luna's
teachers, which is fine.
'cause it's, you know, somethingsmall and I'm like easy now.
And I can do that in like kindof one batch, but anyway, Highly
(02:31):
recommend it.
So.
Going in back into, um, myconversation.
Just again, a trigger warningthat I mentioned on the last
podcast, but just to say foranyone that might be a little
bit sensitive to this topic ofdiscussion, which is around the
(02:53):
loss of.
Uh, child miscarriage, aquaticpregnancy.
I strongly recommend.
You skip over this episode.
And then, um, I will be backwith a different guest next
week, but if you're able to.
Because I really.
But I appreciate people dealwith.
(03:14):
You know, different subjectsdifferently, and sometimes you,
you just don't want to hearabout it.
It brings up too much emotion,but.
I really do want this to be atopic of conversation that.
We are able to talk about andnot feel.
Ashamed or that we shouldn't bespeaking about it or it's too
sensitive.
It's, you know, this happens topeople.
(03:36):
Um, it's very rare and Caltechpregnancies happen to 1% of, um,
the population.
And well, Like women.
Um, and then, so Ms.
Hodges, I believe it's like onein five.
I need to double check thatstatistic, but.
Anyway, um, I appreciate youbeing here and listening to this
(03:59):
and please, you know, I'm alwaysopen for discussions,
conversations around thissubject.
Um, never, you know, be afraidto reach out to me regardless of
your opinion and view.
So, um, I really appreciate Um,enjoy.
cait (04:18):
but I would say something to myself each day of, like,
today I am pregnant.
Mm-hmm.
because I could not go theretomorrow.
Like I could, we can't step intotomorrow and know what it will
look like for us.
And so I would say I'm okay.
I'm safe today.
I'm pregnant.
And um, I'm loved, like I wouldjust say things that I knew I
(04:42):
easily forget, like I'm notalone.
Yeah.
That.
Something I'm tethered to islike the first lie that I
believe is like, you're alone.
No one else feels this way.
Yeah.
You're, you're just, you know,like you're overreacting or
things like that.
And talking with friends who hadgone before me and had
(05:05):
pregnancies after loss or had,um, also experienced a loss like
that was such a community.
I'm so thankful for in that timeand even still now, like there's
a whole online community.
I don't know if you've tappedinto yet, but there's I
francene (05:26):
have, I've been trying to, Yeah,
cait (05:28):
yeah.
There wasn't seven, six yearsago.
Yeah.
And so it like makes my heartjust explodes seeing how, how
many people are dedicated tothis cause of like, you don't
have to do this alone.
Yeah, I agree.
Facebook support groups.
There's Instagram accounts,TikTok accounts, like any,
(05:50):
anywhere on the internet.
You look, blogs all over thatyou can, um, read and be
inspired by their stories.
And so not to say that liketheir story will be my story,
but it is encouraging.
It does.
Hope to see someone who's gonebefore.
Yeah.
That helped a lot.
Whenever I was pregnant withStella, I was scrounging around
(06:13):
the internet.
Yeah.
Cause if I didn't have anyone inmy life personally that had done
that, then it's sort of, you canonly take so much like well
wishes and, you know.
francene (06:26):
Yeah.
It's, it's true.
Um, And yeah, I definitelyappreciate the access that we
have online.
Mm-hmm.
if you are not able to kindafind that support or maybe
you're not as comfortable tospeak about it, is you can find
that comfort through storiesand, you know, different
(06:48):
networks, um, which is, isawesome, right?
Like there's something out therefor everyone.
Um, But speaking of, you know,kind of friends and, um, the
kinda support, um, that you kindof got through this, um,
Sometimes people mean well, andthey, they say things and you
(07:11):
think, Oh, okay.
Um, like I know I, a lot ofpeople say to me like, Well, at
least you know you can getpregnant.
Oh.
I'm like, Yes.
I just can't keep it.
But yes,
cait (07:26):
I like,
francene (07:27):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
But, um, But, but it's, it's,it's interesting the things
that, um, and again, I, I don'twant this to come across for
anyone listening that they'relike, Gosh, I can't say
anything.
But it's, um, it, it's obviouslya very sensitive subject and
especially between women.
It's like, we wanna say stuffthat's comforting, right?
(07:48):
Um, But again, it's, it's, insome situations it's like, well,
again, at least you can getpregnant and, you know, just try
again.
It'll be okay.
And um, and I think.
To me, it's like you just needpeople to listen at the
beginning.
That's, um, yeah.
And you wanna hear stories frompeople that have gone through it
(08:13):
right.
To, to kind of connect and youhave that kind of credibility
that you're like, Okay, they,they kind understand what I'm
going through.
Um, but for me, for kinda othersis I just needed the kinda
listening and to be like, I'mhere for you and.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, I'm, I'm, I'm here.
Um, how, how did you kind offind that when you did kind of
(08:34):
come out and say, um, Yeah,
cait (08:39):
so that, I'm not gonna lie to you.
That part was really hard.
Yeah.
Of like friends who I know.
Love me deeply and like, wantthe best for me and are grieving
with me.
Yeah.
Sometimes we just say things.
Yeah, just word vomit.
It just comes out and it'scoming from a good place
wellbeing.
(09:00):
Um, but it doesn't take away thesting necessarily that.
Hearts feel.
Yeah.
Um, and so I would get a lot ofthings like, Oh, you'll get
pregnant again, I promise.
And I'm like, You can't makethat promise.
I know.
francene (09:15):
Don't make the promise me
cait (09:17):
or, or at least you can get pregnant.
That's a very common one.
And I'm like, Maybe don't say atleast, Yeah.
Just removed from our vocab So,Never ends well.
And so it's sort of likesomething that like I myself
(09:37):
would say to friends who weregoing through a hard time and
I've sort of really made theeffort to change my vocabulary
of like, yeah.
I will sit with you like I hurtwith you, like my heart breaks
for you and I'm sorry thatyou're going through this.
Like those are some things thatyou can't go wrong.
(09:57):
Saying those things I'm droppingoff dinner, like those kinds of
things.
A tangible gift or something toremember their baby by um, is
always helpful.
But I think as far as what notto say, I think there's this
unspoken assumption that peoplemake about miscarriage,
(10:20):
pregnancy loss, um, or any typeof grief that, um, Like once a
certain amount of time passes.
Yeah.
It's like, time to move on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They don't know how to breach inand be like, Are you good?
Like, how are you gonna bedoing?
And so, um, or they don't wantto make us sad or remind us
(10:41):
about it, but like the truth ofit is we haven't forgotten
anything like it is right here.
Yeah.
In our face every day.
Sometimes we're still physicallyhealing.
Yeah.
And so, If you're wondering ifyou should check in on a friend
who has shared their loss withyou, the answer has not to
(11:04):
trigger them or remind them ofit.
They've, they've been remindedevery day.
It's, it hasn't left them.
Um, but I don't think you can gowrong with getting out of your
comfort zone and pressing intothat uncomfortable place of.
I don't know what to say and Ifeel like I don't have the right
(11:24):
words, but I love you and I'mhere for you.
francene (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's powerful.
I, oh my gosh, I wholeheartedlyagree.
And I, I think I messaged thisyesterday, um, to is like, I, I
did find like an overwhelming,like love initially when, you
know, so many people reached outand obviously again, I publicly
said something on Instagram.
(11:47):
Mm-hmm.
Like I publicly kind of statedit and tried to kind of do it
from an education standpoint.
Um, so so many people reachedout and like my friends, they
were great and I got greatstories, but I then kind of feel
now it's as if, okay, I'vespoken about it.
I don't wanna speak about againcause it's not a nice subject
and it's awkward.
(12:08):
Mm-hmm.
you know what I mean?
It's like you kind of feel, andin a way I also, I was telling,
um, like my husband, I'm like, Ialso don't wanna be that friend
where someone gets pregnant.
They're like, Shit, we can't sayanything in front of, Right.
Cause you're like, No, trust me.
Like I, I can feel the love forother people and I've always
been that way.
Like, I, I find happiness when Isee people happy.
(12:33):
But it's like you, you don'twanna be kind of that person
where they all start kind oftalking about like trying for a
baby and then it's.
Yeah.
Cause you wanna speak about it.
And again, the whole purpose ofme talking and being so open was
I'm, I'm okay to speak aboutthis.
This is how I'm healing.
Yes.
But if you don't and we don'tacknowledge it, it kind of puts
(12:55):
it back into, you should feelshameful for this happening or
talking about it.
Um, And that's another reasonwhy I wanted to kind of do this
podcast episode was I know it'snot just me that feels that way.
cait (13:11):
Absolutely.
Oh my goodness.
I can't tell you how many timesI've, I've spoken with someone
and they're like, I just feellike I can't.
Yeah.
Even though I have in the pastand it's been a screen light,
like, yeah, say it, but then nowI'm just like, I don't wanna be
that guy.
You know?
Like and I, that resonates somuch.
I remember after.
(13:32):
Sharing.
I just sort of felt like noone's gonna feel like they
should invite me to their babyshower cause they don't wanna
hurt my feelings.
Yeah.
Or, and like, very well youcould decline a baby shower and
be totally justified and kindabout it and all that, but um,
there's sort of this like,Buffer zone of like, they don't
(13:54):
wanna get too close to my mess,but they also don't wanna, they
love me and don't wanna hurt me.
Yeah.
So it's, it's tough.
And I, I can feel empathy forfriends who want to support
Yeah.
People they love who arehurting.
Um, and so there's, there's somany things.
(14:17):
Yeah, I, I'm still learning as afriend of people who are
hurting.
Yeah.
There's graces on all sides
francene (14:24):
for, for sure.
And, um, to that point, and Iknow you mentioned this earlier
too, is I feel going throughthis, it gives me a different
empathy for people going throughloss in general.
Um, and I, I always feel likeI'm empathetic and like.
(14:45):
I have a lot of feelings, buteven just as we're talking
about, you know, how to wordthings, how much we're kind of
reaching out and I even lookback and think, gosh, there was
probably situations that I couldhave handled better or, you
know, done something more.
Um, That I think, you know, it'salways in life, right?
(15:08):
We get these lessons.
Yeah, we learn them and we'relike, Oh, damn, if only had
known this like ages ago.
Um, and this is the only way wecan kind of evolve and develop.
And like, I appreciate that, um,and I appreciate that growth.
Um, but it does, going throughthis, it does make you kinda
look back or if your friendsreach out and say, I went
(15:29):
through a miscarriage too.
You're like, Gosh, why didn'tyou say something and then get
back and you think, Yeah,actually you were like a little
bit disconnected and I didn'tthink anything of it.
Or we're so in our own littlebubble that we're self-absorbed.
Sometimes you're like, Oh myGod, what's wrong with blah
blah, blah?
Why are they not coming outpersonally?
Yes.
And then.
(15:50):
Yeah, it, it kind of puts stuffinto perspective, but it even
made me sad when I heard some ofmy friends who'd gone through
this and even I'D one individualthat I work with, and again, I
was very open, you know, I toldmy manager and.
You know, I'm just an openperson and she was like, Gosh, I
(16:11):
can't believe you told work.
Like, I can't believe you saidsomething, but why would you
not?
Yeah, why would you not?
You know, this is, if we're notwilling to say we're not helping
society grow and companies growand, you know, address these
types of conversations in theoffice or at home.
(16:33):
Um, But anyway, it's just, it's,yeah, it's, it's interesting,
um, the reactions and again, howI felt about individuals that I
was like, Gosh, if I'd known, I,yeah, I, I would've done
something.
And I feel sad that they had togo through that loan.
cait (16:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's like my, my whole heartbehind sort of the care package
portion of, um, due to joy.
I had so many friends a couplesummers ago just back to back to
back lose babies, likethroughout their pregnancy.
Multiple friends that were likevery close, like in my close
(17:09):
circle of friends, and I justremember feeling helpless.
I have to do something.
Two of them lived sort of on theother side of Texas, so I
couldn't like go there and bewith them and watch their other
kids and all that.
So, um, so basically the carepackages that I create, it has
something like a little bit ofself care, a little bit of soul
(17:32):
care, like journals to sort ofprocess your grief and all that.
And so I put together what Iwish I would've.
In that time.
And so that was so the, theheart of empathy of like, I have
friends who I love who are goingthrough it and I don't know what
(17:53):
to do.
And I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson who doesn't know what to
do.
Yeah.
And I still struggle to find theexact words.
There's no perfect words.
But, um, that really resonatesthat feeling of like, even
looking back, like there, thereare situations I've been in.
Maybe I did say at least blah,blah, blah,
francene (18:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I'm sure I did too.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, I'm gra glad youbrought up the packages cuz
again, when we connected and Isaw this, I was like, God,
that's so genius.
Cuz again, we're talking aboutthe things that, you know, you,
you can say, or how to showsupport.
This is an incredible way ofshowing support that's not
(18:37):
sending flowers or, you know,it, it's something else.
It's, it's, that's a lot moremeaningful.
And as you mentioned, you havelike journals, different things
kind of in these packages, buteven like, The most durable
necklace and like plantableseed, paper and candle and
chocolate.
And it's, it's like, honestly,when I look at this, I'm like,
(18:59):
Yeah, that probably would'velike, made my day, like
essential oils.
Um, like it's just such athoughtful gift.
Um, but on top of that, you alsohave care packages for.
Men.
Mm-hmm.
some recent one.
Yeah.
And you know, it was interestinghow many people reached out to
(19:22):
me.
and it was all about me, right.
And my husband was like, youknow, there's been like some
great people reaching out to me,but he was like, No one talks
about the guy.
Yeah.
I was like, And it's true, likeyes, we are physically going
through it, but you think aboutall the dads out there and this
is what they've been longingfor.
(19:43):
And then they get the news,they're with the journey and
they're like an observer.
Yeah.
And they're pained cuz theycan't take away.
Your wife's pain or yourpartner's pain, but they're
going through it and no onetruly is like, Hey, dad, are,
are you doing okay?
Um, and even from like a supportperspective and you know,
(20:07):
society, I think men are gettingthere where they're a bit more
open.
Um, And I would say my husbandhas great relationships with his
friends, and again, he was open,discussed it, but I love the
fact you have something for mentoo.
Um, like that is awesome.
Um, and I truly think like thishelps.
(20:29):
Um,
cait (20:30):
it's so needed and, and there's such a gap in the
support area of even online.
Like you'll see things gearedtoward.
Mothers who have lost a baby.
Um, but just sort of how, likethe conversation that happens
online and in person is someonewill go to the dad and say,
How's your wife?
Yeah.
(20:51):
Not how are you?
francene (20:53):
Yeah.
Or at least like, so here,here's another top tip for the
listeners, Make sure you'relike, How are you both doing
Well, what can we do for, forboth of you?
Because, um, I will, and youknow this too, with your
partner.
Mm-hmm.
guys feel that loss too.
Like they, they really do.
(21:15):
And even, um, like the secondtime or like the second time
after my miscarriage, I gotpregnant.
When I told my husband even hewas like, I'm scared to get
excited.
Yes.
So it's like they're, they'refeeling it and.
You know, I would highlyrecommend that you know if,
again, depending on howcomfortable you are, kind of
(21:37):
relying on your friends or yournetwork, ensure that you are
having that dialogue with yourspouse.
Yes.
Back and forth.
Like, it's not just how you arefeeling, it's ensuring that
you're pulling it out of yourpartner.
So you're, you're both havingthat dialogue and you know, kind
of talking, cuz I think.
(21:57):
again, it's hard to sometimesget wrapped up in your own loss
mm-hmm.
and to go down the, well, it'snot your body.
And I'm the one feeling thephysical pain and you know, the
heart pain, but they are too.
It's just not physical.
cait (22:13):
Right.
I think it's, it's probably evenlayers of grief where.
Men typically grievedifferently.
They maybe aren't as expressive.
It probably depends on the guy,but my husband is not as
emotional and I'm, I swing thependulum like I'm real emotional
or I'm like, I don't care aboutanything.
(22:35):
Yeah.
And so, um, and so yeah, it's,it's probably hard for them cuz.
May feel like, Well, I don'twanna show emotion because I
don't wanna upset her.
Yeah.
Or make her think it's herfault.
And so I think just in my ownpersonal marriage, my husband
felt a lot of that.
Like, yes, guys would check on,or our friends would check on me
(22:58):
only.
Yeah.
And he's hurting, not asphysically, but he, It hurts him
to watch me in so much pain.
So yes, our physical bodies sortof bear the most of it, but I
think the emotional it's guysaren't left out in.
(23:20):
Feeling the effects of loss.
And so it's, it became soimportant to me to, um, find
some kind of tangible like, Hey,I see you dad, like, yeah.
You also are not alone and we'renot gonna let you do this alone.
francene (23:35):
Yeah, Agreed.
That's why I love that you, um,have that plus you also have the
most adorable, um, Oh wait,sorry.
Before I go onto, You also onyour, um, site, you have
resources for grieving dads.
So, um, and I'll send theselinks afterwards, but again, I
think that's awesome that youhave those kind of resources
(23:57):
there.
Um, so again, if you knowanyone, um, you know, kind of
going through this make.
Please share this cuz this isgreat, great information.
Um, but I wa what I was gonnamention is you have the most
adorable DIY rainbow kids andthey're so sink and cute.
Um, and we, our house is likevery green.
(24:19):
Oh, I love it.
Green in our house.
So I saw you have like a greenonce.
I'm definitely gonna, um,Purchase that one.
I'll hook you up.
Yes.
Yeah, they're super, super cute.
Um, and again, I'm sure, youknow, it's, it's an adorable
kind of thing to do, like withyour, um, family or, um, you
(24:40):
know, just for decor in general.
Um, again, it can be very kindameaningful, um, especially if
you're kind of going throughthis and again, you want to
kinda mark that and havesomething, um, Re remind you,
but Right.
You know.
Yeah.
So, no, I think, I think it'sawesome that you kind of create
(25:02):
this, and you've created like aspace where again, you're
willing to kind of talk aboutthis and promote these types of
discussions, but you also haveresources that people can
purchase and use, um, andprovide to others.
Kind of going through this.
Wonderful.
cait (25:20):
Thank you friend.
That's very sweet.
Um, the whole rainbow thing.
I know that can be sort of a, a,what is the word Not triggering,
but there's, there's somecontroversy on rainbow if it's.
Um, cuz rainbows aren'tguaranteed.
Sometimes people say thatRainbow is the baby born after
(25:41):
loss.
And so that's sort of what, um,Stella is to me.
Yeah.
Is the little rainbow baby.
Yeah.
But I do know that, um, Rainbowcan mean a lot of different
things for different people.
It can mean.
Holding onto hope.
Um, and it's not necessarily tosay that your baby that you lost
(26:01):
was a storm.
I don't think anyone who's losta baby would hold onto that
belief.
Um, but just the grief and theloss, um, Feels like a storm.
And so, um, that's why sort ofthis whole company started as a
blog and then it became themacrame rainbows and I made
(26:23):
thousands of rainbows, and thenI decided I'm gonna get
arthritis.
If I keep doing these
francene (26:29):
rainbows, they can make it.
cait (26:31):
So now it's DIY kits.
So
francene (26:35):
honestly, I think even, um, I mean, yeah.
Like anyone could go outtomorrow and buy one and it's
done.
It's great.
But I, I think even just beingable to make it yourself mm-hmm.
and go through the exercise.
And again, it can be somethingyou do in your own, It can be
something you do with your kids.
It can be something you do withyour spouse where you're able to
(26:57):
get all your friends.
Mm-hmm.
like I, I think, um, I honestlythink kind of doing something
like that and having a kit whereyou know, you can kind of
purchase, and again, it's, it'sa bit more like personal.
I actually really like that.
That's very sweet.
So yeah, despite obviously Idon't want you to have
arthritis, it's like I can't, Ithink it's, it's a good thing.
(27:20):
Um, um, so, Well, I, I really,really appreciate your time and
again, I know this was like areally heavy subject for this
morning, Um, Me too.
So, but I, like, I justappreciate being able to kind of
speak openly about this and, youknow, I've mentioned it so many
(27:41):
times during this conversation,just so important.
Mm-hmm.
like it really is, um, So to tryand get back on the
lightheartedness, um, I do havea quick fire round that I
typically do, so whatever popsinto your head, just go, go with
it.
All right.
Um, okay.
Favorite cocktail?
cait (28:02):
Ooh, uh, recently a pair mule.
francene (28:06):
Oh, oh yeah.
Okay.
You're in Houston, right?
cait (28:11):
I'm
francene (28:11):
in Cyprus.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Cause I'm
cait (28:17):
neighbors.
I love it.
I love the internet.
francene (28:20):
Oh my god.
I do.
Um, okay, great.
Cause, um, do you ever go toVintage Park?
Sometimes, yeah.
Oh my gosh.
They have like, great, likecocktail places.
Okay.
Um, oh my gosh.
Chef's table.
Oh, I have not been there.
It, it is really good.
They do like their food's great.
(28:40):
They do like a great happy hour.
But yeah, their cocktails arereally good.
Got it.
Writing that down.
Yay.
I'm speaking to someone in thatI can give recommendations.
Yeah.
Love it.
Um, okay.
Who would play you in a movie?
cait (28:55):
Oh, goodness.
Um, wow.
I've never thought about this.
Um, Goodness.
I don't know.
I have a girl crush on KristenBell, so Kristen.
francene (29:10):
Oh yes.
Do you know, um, I actuallythought you were about to say
Kristen Duns.
Oh, Kristen Duns.
They look like her.
cait (29:18):
Yeah, I've gotten that before.
francene (29:21):
You actually do.
That's why I was like, No way.
Or you're about to say KristenDuns.
Um, Forgot about.
Yeah.
Um, no, the good, good option,Kristen Bell.
Um, especially for kids, cuz I'msure they'd appreciate the
Annana
cait (29:37):
Anna in this house.
francene (29:38):
Us too.
I think I've seen honestly, allDisney movies.
I never thought I'd watch him asmuch as I have.
I probably know like all thewords.
I'm like super fan.
All parents are super fans, Bigfan.
Same.
Um, what is your most usedemoji?
cait (29:54):
Ooh.
Probably, I'm gonna say the.
Cow emoji recently.
My daughter was just a cow forHalloween, and so it's been like
spit by her cow emojis.
I was wondering where you're
francene (30:11):
going with that.
cait (30:14):
My daughters cows and she wears her costume every day
since, so,
francene (30:19):
Oh God, that's adorable.
Um, if you could relive one ofyour dreams over and over, what
would it.
Oh,
cait (30:28):
like a dream at night that you have?
francene (30:30):
Yeah.
cait (30:31):
Um, lots of flying dreams.
That's a recurring dream, likefloating in the sky, so would
love to be able to do that.
That's the only thing that comesto mind.
I don't really remember mydreams much, but that
francene (30:47):
do you know, I literally interviewed someone
like, um, a couple of months agoand he interprets your dreams.
Wow.
To be like, like what are youkind of subconsciously thinking
about?
What does it mean and.
Honestly, it was so damnfascinating.
Like, I'm obsessed with dreamsand when I wake up I will
typically kind of write downwhat it was I was thinking
(31:09):
about.
Or I wake my husband off and I'mlike, Oh my God, guess what just
happened?
Um,
cait (31:14):
I love it.
I should do that.
I should keep a notepad by mybed.
francene (31:17):
Yeah.
He actually recommended, um, hisname's Michael Lennox.
He recommended waking up anddrawing.
What, beyond the dream, but I'mlike, I'm the worst drawer.
Like, that'll be like scribbles.
Yeah.
Um, anyway, Um, and lastly, whatis your life motto or favorite
(31:38):
phrase that you live by?
cait (31:42):
Um, my favorite phrase, I don't know if it's a phrase, but
it's something that just pops upin every area of my life.
Um, just that you matter.
And that you're not alone.
That's like, I get that tattooedall over my body if I could
francene (32:01):
Love it.
Um, and it definitely resonatesthrough everything that you do.
So thank you so, so much again.
Um, and as we mentioned, I willbe kind of sending these links
out.
Um, so due to Joy, um, please gohave a look.
Um, At your profile, at thekits, um, and just know that I'm
(32:24):
sure you're open to kinda havingdiscussions and I am the same.
And to your point.
You're not alone.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not a No.
Our listeners.
So more than happy to kind of bethere for individuals that want
to kind of talk more about this.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but thank you so much forhaving this conversation with
me.
Of
cait (32:44):
course.
Thank you for having me.
I loved hanging out with you andchatting and Yeah.
So it's been,
francene (32:51):
Yay.
Me too.
And I can't believe you're soclose.
So yeah, I need to reach out toyou after this and um,
especially if you're kind ofnative to this area.
We've only been here for aboutnearly three years.
Oh.
And obviously Covid happens, sowe're still trying to kinda see
all the kind of hot spots andthings to do.
(33:12):
So
cait (33:13):
that's, Let's get together.
I would love that.
francene (33:16):
Yay.
Okay, let's do that.
Okay, well thank you so much.
Have a great day.
And, um, we will talk very.
Awesome.
Sounds great.
Bye bye.
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