Ep 68 Decoding Galatians 5:13-18: The Real Dangers of Freedom

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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We've all grown to laugh.

(00:20):
Hello and welcome back to thisepisode of Real Bible Stories.
So this week Selena is still inSpain enjoying herself with her
family.
It's a ten day trip, so sheleft about a week ago.
Now she comes back on Wednesday.
I gotta go pick her up from theairport like 8 pm, but she'll

(00:43):
already be back by the time youhear this.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
but and actually by the time you hear this, I'll be
in Guam.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Oh, man, you're so cool.
Bye, ryan.
So this is actually just metalking to you guys through the
void.
But the voice you just heard isof Pastor Ryan Brown, our
teacher for this evening on RealBible Stories.
So the sweet crooning voicefrom across the way is that's
Pastor Ryan's voice.
But we have been going throughthe book of Galatians for the

(01:12):
last couple weeks.
I think we're probably on thesixth week now.
We've got a couple weeks leftgoing into this book.
Do not be swayed by the factthat we are halfway through
chapter five and there's onlysix chapters.
We're not done the best thingsare yet to come.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
We're gonna end up practical living now.
This is not just hey, here'sthe right way to think, and
theology and all that.
Now we're talking about like,hey, this is how you live a
Christian life.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Is this starting the fruit to the spirit, or is this
acts of the flesh?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
The end of this chapter will be added to that,
but that's not what we'retalking about tonight.
Yeah, every single episode.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's what I'm waiting for.
I feel like this whole seriesat least for me personally, this
whole series is building up tofruit, to the spirit.
Because if you have and if youhave not listened to the whole
series, you need to go back,start from the beginning,
because you'll understand thepremise of what I'm about to say
.
Because the whole beginning ofGalatians is a deconstruction of
the faith and basically heargues, Paul argues that you are

(02:13):
no longer under the law and youare living by the spirit.
And you can tell if you areeffectively living by the spirit
by you can measure that via thefruits of the spirit.
And I was like, oh snap, Brian,that's crazy.
I spent my whole Christianupbringing thinking that I was
under the law still and that Ineeded to live exactly by the

(02:34):
law.
And I could never really answerthose questions when people
would be like, well, why don'tyou eat kosher?
Why don't you?
Why do you eat pig?
And it's like, well, I don'tknow.
I mean, it's like, for somereason, some of these laws are
really important.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
And if you're talking at the end, why do you still
circumcise?
Yeah, it's like yeah.
Why do we still circumcisetoday?

Speaker 1 (02:50):
And I didn't have an answer for that, and now I do.
It's like well, we're not underthe law, we are living in the
freedom of the spirit, undergrace, and that means that
you're orienting yourself on thepursuit of the spirit, on the
pursuit of Jesus Christ, on thepursuit of God, and that pursuit

(03:15):
will, if effectively done, bearfruit, and so you can tell that
you are on the path by thefruit that it bears, and so that
that, to me, is the overarchingkind of premise of the entire
study of Galatians.
I don't know if that's what youmeant when you initiated it,
but that's what it's become.
For me, ryan, that is what itis, and so I'm waiting for

(03:36):
Relations has many things tomany people.
Yeah, so I'm waiting for thecookie that's in the jar, and
Ryan keeps like moving the jarfurther down the kitchen counter
, and so I'm here for it, thoughI'm here, I've learned so much
over the last month and a half.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Don't let it blind you from the beauty of things
that are in between.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh, my goodness, it doesn't.
It's incredible this wholeprocess, but my eyes are set on
the fruits and I'm trying to getover there.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
We're about to walk into it.
So if you remember, at thebeginning of last week's episode
, one of the things that Paulkind of emphasizes, that it was
for freedom that Christ has setus free.
He has set us that as a reality.
We are free.
Now, whether we choose to walkin that freedom is up to us, and

(04:22):
that's kind of how it startedduring last week's episode.
So the concern and one of thethings and this kind of feeds
back to everything we've beentalking about in this series
about the point of the law itacted as a babysitter.
It meant to keep the Jewishpeople on track and they didn't
veer too far off into sin rightPlaying with idols and being

(04:43):
just like the Gentiles.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
So you could say sin could have bound and you would
know God's people.
And grace abounds, all the moreright, so that grace could have
bound all the more.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
But in the time before Christ was revealed, the
promise seat of Abraham was tobe revealed.
It acted as a babysitter forthem until that time, right?
So the law acted functionallyas a babysitter to keep people
from veering too far off intosin.
So when Christ comes, paul'sarguing you don't need the law
anymore.
But then there's this natural,I guess, question that you can

(05:10):
counter to Paul and then saywell, if the law meant to serve
as a babysitter to keep peoplefrom sinning before, if you
remove that, what keeps peoplefrom?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
going crazy and sinning now and I asked you that
before and it's like so I cando whatever I want.
It's like that's the natural.
That's like the first broken,obvious question that anyone
would want to ask.
All right, so I can do, I canfinally indulge in whatever I
want, because I'm under grace,and that's where we start
talking about freedom.
I'm under grace.
So I'm good, I can do whatever.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Right and which isn't the heart of you know,
obviously somebody who's chasingafter Christ right Problem
number one, but that's actuallykind of the problem number,
definitely when I first taughtthis in the Bible study, I
titled it the danger withfreedom, so there is a real
danger with that, though.
Okay, so you remove thebabysitter, you remove the
guardrails.
Now it's kind of like Now it'syour job to make the strike.

(06:03):
You have removed the trainingwheels from the bicycle, right?
So what keeps them from youfalling over?
Right Like are you matureenough to ride your bike without
the training wheels?
And which is always a bigdecision from a parent right
Like, are they ready?
Well, I guess we'll try it,right.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
They'll learn eventually, right.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah they'll learn eventually.
But how then, if the trainingwheels were meant for keeping us
from falling over and hurtingourselves?
If you remove the trainingwheels, there is now a risk.
There's a danger that when youremove the training wheel, that
you do fall over and hurtyourself, right?
So what keeps believers, whatkeeps, you know, these Messiah

(06:43):
people, followers of Christ,from falling and going insanely
into sin?
Right, what's the boundary?
How do we maintain that right?
So that's kind of the problemwe're gonna hit.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
I felt this, I felt that, not felt that's the wrong
term, but like.
This interesting concept cameinto my head of like, oh, you
remove the training wheels, butusually the parent like holds
onto the seat and like helps thekid, you know, ride the bike a
bit so they get up to pace.
And so it's like the HolySpirit would be like holding the
seat to make you know fall over.
And then when you look back atthe Holy Spirit, you're like I

(07:16):
got it, holy Spirit, I can do itmyself.
And the Holy Spirit is likeokay, let's go, and then you
fall over immediately and you'relike but I couldn't do it.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Why did you let?

Speaker 1 (07:24):
go, and the Holy Spirit is like you said.
You could rely on yourself.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
There you go, yeah, and then see, we're getting good
better with our analogies here.
Well, when they ask a question,before we dive too much, just
in regards to freedom, right,because we talked a lot about it
last week.
But what would you say if youwere to go take a straw poll of
anybody out in town?
Right, like unbelievers?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Whatever town you're in.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah Well, what do you think if you were to ask
them describe what is somethingthat defines or describes or
identifies a Christian to you?
What would they say?
You know and you would get aspectrum of answers right.
Like on one side, you could getvery cynical, all their
hypocrites.
They're on the one extremeRight, Like the cynical in their

(08:15):
hypocrites or their.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
It's like they're on a clue, or all right on the
positive end though let's talkabout the positive end.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Like the faithful believers are out there, being
faithful to Christ, right.
What do you think people wouldsay about them?

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I would say that things that identify someone as
a Christian is the oh, here wego.
So Selena has this friend namedDenexi and her name's out there
now, but Denexi is one of themost overt Christ followers I've
ever met, and I'll just tellyou how she is, and this is my

(08:51):
answer to your question.
So she is someone whoattributes everything that she
does to God.
So glory to Christ andeverything everything, whether
it's like I know, it's like howare you doing today?
And she's like I woke up, graceto God, like by God's grace I
woke up this morning.
I'm like that's wild.
No one ever answers thatquestion like that.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
And it's like I feel like I want to meet her.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
I hope one day you have to go to Miami and so, like
she'll like pass a test.
And she's like only by God'sgrace that I pass this test.
You know, she graduated only byGod's grace and it's like
everything that she did was tiedback to his glory, no matter if
it was things where she wasstruggling through something,
and she was like I just need youto pray for me.
Right now I'm really just goingthrough X, y and Z.

(09:34):
This thing happened in my lifeX, y and Z.
It just really need, reallyneed your prayer.
I said I know God's moving, Ijust don't really see how he's
moving right now.
I just I know, I'm looking, I'mlooking, I just need you to
pray for me.
And it was always tied back andso me being the mess I was in
college, I would look at herwith this sheer awe.
I'm like how can you completely?
I literally, in my head, I waslike how can you completely rely

(09:56):
on God?
And I talked about this in thelast episode of like I literally
only gave things to God that Ifelt like I couldn't handle and
I was like this woman's crazy,she can't handle anything.
She gives everything to God.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, so that's a good right.
So dependency.
What else, though, what do youthink are identifiers?
Generosity?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Generosity, Stedication, to study Care Like
caring for others in general.
We were talking today at churchabout the helping hands
ministry that the church has.
In the benevolence ministrythat the church has where it's
people will just bring problemsto the church and the church has
like a mass email system whereeveryone's put in like their

(10:39):
skill sets that they have thathave volunteered for this
ministry.
For gifts and needs, and yeah,and the email goes out and it's
like hey, I have the ability tofix this pipe, I have the
ability to haul things with mytruck, I have the ability to
paint this barn house, which isgood.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
So when we get to that stuff and that hits a lot
of the fruit of the spirit whenwe get there, right, if we get
there, when we get there.
So Paul kind of defines furthermarkers, right.
But what I kind of wanted tohighlight, because you didn't
hit it, most people don't hit itand people who are listening
probably, I mean maybe they hitit, I don't know.

(11:12):
But if I were to guess themajority did not, what did you
say?
What wasn't mentioned wasfreedom, that Christians were
meant to carry the mark of afree people, and how often
that's not the case.
People generally don't look andsay man like Emrean just lives

(11:32):
free, right, ryan, just liveslike he's just in life, he just,
you know, just manifestsfreedom.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know, you know, you know someone who manifested
freedom in like the most realway for me and in some ways it
seemed like the most frustratingway for Pastor David was his,
his, wife, oh, she was yeah.
Just gave everything to God andjust did not worry about
anything at all, and it's likeit'll work out the spirit's got
it, god's got it, we're we'refine, you don't have to worry

(12:01):
about it.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
She lived free from the stress the anxiety the
worries, the even like, in termsof some of the faithfulness
where, you know, Pastor David,by his own admission, struggled.
You know I struggled with this.
He's like, I think he I don'tthink he cares, because I've
heard him use this before andsome of the sermon, so, but he
was telling the story about whenthey were just starting out in

(12:23):
ministry.
You know, he was pastoring achurch and he sees his wife
writing a check for Tithe andhe's like you haven't how much
she's like.
I'm paying Tithe.
He's like but you know, I'm thepastor, we're paying Tithe to
ours.
And she's like do you?
Do you want our house andfinances to be blessed or not?
Right, okay?

(12:43):
And she was just, you know, shewas just a you're right a free
person, and she's a good exampleof just like nothing seemed to
rock her, even when and I, ofcourse, I see the public, you
saw the public, you know I'msure she had dark moments, but

(13:04):
you even talked to her kids andPastor David like it didn't
matter how mad they got at her,it didn't matter how.
If he said something he's likeI shouldn't have said that she
just brushed it off, forgave,moved on right.
She lived free, right and that'sa good mark, and most.
I would just say that,generally, though, people don't
look at Christians and say, man,they just live free, you know,
and that's one of theidentifying markers that

(13:29):
Christians are supposed to holdin an godly way right.
So what we're going to really?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
hit tonight and it was like to the point where it
didn't make sense.
You know it's like free, to thepoint where other people look
they'll get hurt and be like Ican't understand.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I can't even assess an illogical love.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, I just can't have my hair Illogical
irrational love and it's like,oh my goodness, this woman.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
And boy, you must strive to be like that, right?
Yeah, so what we're talkingabout tonight is, you know, not
just living in freedom what thatmeans properly but the dangers
of living free, because there'salso a danger with that.
If you remove the trainingwheels, if you remove the
guardrails, if you remove thebabysitter, so I'm just no one,
I'm free to.

(14:09):
Yeah, so what keeps you ontrack, right?
So Paul is going to answer that.
So our target text is Galatians5.
And we're going to go in fromverses 13 through 18.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yep, galatians 5, 13 through 18.
So this is from the NIV version.
All right, you, my brothers andsisters, were called to be free
, but do not use your freedom toindulge the flesh oh man, there
it is.
Rather, serve one anotherhumbly and in love, for the
entire law is fulfilled inkeeping this one command love

(14:42):
your neighbor as yourself.
If you bite and devour eachother, watch out or you will be
destroyed by each other.
So I say walk by the spirit andyou will not gratify the
desires of the flesh, for theflesh desires what is contrary
to the spirit and the spiritwhat is contrary to the flesh?
They are in conflict with eachother, so that you are not to do

(15:05):
whatever you want, but if youare led by the spirit, you are
not under the law.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
There it is, there you go.
So you just spent an entirelife never reading Galatians.
You know, you said I spent myentire life.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I probably, I probably was.
Well, I definitely.
So where I say so?
So I say walk by the spirit.
You will not and you will notgratify the desires of the flesh
, for the flesh desires wascontrary to the spirit.
I've heard that before.
For the flesh desires wascontrary to the spirit.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
We're gonna get to that one, because I think that
is probably one of the mostrelatable verses the conflict
that you feel just the battle ofthe flesh between the spirit,
for the believer, and inside,we'll get to that in due time so
let's just start from thebeginning, because there's a lot
of good stuff here.
So verse 13 it says you, mybrothers and sisters were called

(15:54):
to be free, right.
So when we talk about called,remember how we say that's kind
of synonymous for being saved,right.
When Paul uses that to becalled, and then we talked about
, there's a difference betweenbeing in terms of mentality,
right there's a differencebetween being saved from and
called to right.
Be saved from something isdifferent to be called to

(16:14):
something right, one annotatespurpose right, you're called.
So what were you called to?
You were called to be free,right, so to be saved in Christ,
but to remain in the slavery ofsituations, the slavery of sin,
the slavery of some of yourhabits, the slavery of your

(16:37):
fears and your anxieties andyour worries, all like all that.
You were not called to remainthere.
You were called to be free, togo, live free.
That is a purpose to which youwere called to.
You were saved to a purpose,and that purpose is.
One of the purposes is to beand live free, right, yeah, so,
but do not use your freedom toindulge in the flesh.

(16:58):
Now here comes to thefundamental problem right, a
fundamental problem.
Here's the other side of thecoin, and I think that this is
certainly true of the world theydon't frame it this way, but
it's also true of believers.
Okay, because one of the thingsremember who is Paul writing to
in this letter?
The church of Galatia.
To the church he's not writingto, the procounsel of the Roman

(17:20):
government, to the world he'swriting to a church.
These are people who havesubmitted their life over to
Christ.
These are people who havesurrendered, who have said we
belong to God's family innocentof the kingdom.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
We write.
These are people who are sayingChrist is.
Lord bless him the way.
It's a whole song.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, yeah right these are.
These are people who belong toChrist and he's having to remind
them.
Here's a danger.
What you guys can't be doing isindulging your flesh and using
that freedom to go live in sin.
Right, yeah, you'll be in grace, but don't abuse God's grace,
right?
One thing to just say aboutthat, if I could just, is your

(18:00):
way of saying thank you forChrist dying for your sin is to
continue to living in it.
Thank you for suffering for meto save me from the thing that
I'm still gonna chase after,right?
So the heart of a believerisn't is, for now, centered on
Christ and the manifestation ofwhat he represented and what he
demonstrated on the cross, hisglory and his love.

(18:22):
We say thank you and you turnyour heart away from that sin
and towards him.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
You don't say thank you now, whatever I want, that's
yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
But if I could say, though, what?
What is true about both theworld even though they don't
frame it this way but also thechurch.
We often love our sin.
We just hate the consequencesof our sin.
Yeah, and the mentality of somepeople is that Christ saved me
from the consequences of sin.
That's true, but that's all hedid.

(18:55):
What he hasn't to them savethem from is the sin itself,
meaning, yes, I am a sinner, Iwas hell bound.
He has saved me from hell.
The consequences, right, thankyou Lord, but I'm still
struggling and I remain in thesin, to which you save me from
the consequences of.
But here's the problem I willconsequences manifest different

(19:19):
ways, right?
So, yeah, you may have savedyou from hell, but that doesn't
mean it's gonna save you fromthe STD.
We're gonna save you from therelationships breaking down
having a child at a wedlockright.
There's other consequences tosin yeah, and absolutely and
then, if you look at the, theway the entire world is

(19:41):
structured is they're trying tofind ways to eliminate
consequences of sin withoutgetting rid of the sin itself.
The Christian manifestation ofthat is that I remain in my sin
and I just show up on church onSunday.
Thank God, he's saving me fromthe consequences and I continue
to go to my right, go backMonday morning and Paul says do

(20:03):
not think that you can use yourfreedom to go indulge in your
flesh right.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
I wanted to make a point that I've brought it up
before, that we is exist in aworld that is interrelational,
so you can't really commit anysort of act that doesn't have
some kind of relationalconsequence.
So I'm me choosing whether, toyou know, clean the house or not

(20:29):
.
I may not be required to cleanthe house.
I may not be, it may not belike something my wife and I've
organized is like something thatI will do, but me not taking
care of the home and just likehaving a weird expectation that
she does it when it's also not arequirement that has a
relational consequence.
Alright, the home must be takencare of and we have to work to

(20:50):
negotiate that peace out, everyand little things like that.
You still have to negotiate.
So you, the way you interactwith your co-workers, the way
you interact with your, withyour faith that if you study
your Bible or not, like thereare always going to be
relational consequences to that,even in within the relationship
you have with the Holy Spiritas well.
So you have to, you have tounderstand that there is.

(21:15):
I don't think there's a singlething you could possibly do that
will not have some effect onsomeone or on the Holy Spirit
positive or negative, right andpositive or negative, like it's
like any sense.
So you can never just be like ohwell, my sin doesn't hurt
anyone, it's like it, it doesright, it guarantee you it does
if you remember when we did theweek on my sin, what's the big

(21:37):
deal of sin?

Speaker 2 (21:38):
right, the source of hurt, the source of if you, if
you look at your situation,right, anybody who's going
through a hard time, right,maybe they're a divorce dealing
with you know, you know the, the, the other parents of your,
your child and going throughcustody battles, or you know,

(21:59):
any tough situation, aregenerally the consequences of
someone's sin, your own orsomebody else's that the sin
hurts people yeah right.
Sin is what causes suffering.
God hates sin.
He hates sin not just becauseit's morally against his
character, but because it'sagainst his character.
It hurts people and he hatesseeing people hurt.
That's why, ultimately, god'sgonna deal with it.

(22:21):
Decisive blow once and for all,he says.
At some point, everybody needsto make a decision of whether
you're on the side of sin andcontinuing to go and hurt people
and live for yourself or forthe kingdom that deals with sin
right.
And for those who just say andthey choose no, I'm gonna still
live for myself, I don't care ifI hurt people, I'm gonna get
rid of them.
I'm gonna destroy the wickedbecause at some point there's a
decisive moment where I dealwith the pain, the suffering and

(22:45):
everything that exists withinit.
I'm gonna.
And the source of that is sinand wickedness right the source
the source of that is missingthe mark so if the whole point
of why Christ came was to dealwith sin and its consequences.
Why do you think you now havethe freedom in Christ to
continue on sinning, which meansyou're saying missing God's
mark.
I'm going to continue on hurtingpeople.

(23:06):
I'm gonna continue on, you know, creating the same environment,
the old kingdom of the world,in my life.
I'm gonna continue on livingthere, yeah, while claiming
citizenship to God's kingdom,which has come to wipe that out.
Right, so that is so awesome.
The point is or maybe you caneven say a question but are you

(23:30):
wanting to be freed from yoursin or just the consequences of
it and people, the danger withsin, or the danger with freedom
in the Christian life for peoplecoming in is that they want to
be freed from the consequences,but they don't really want to be
freed from the sin itself yeahbecause, let's be honest for a
moment, sin is kind of fun if itwasn't fun, we wouldn't have

(23:51):
such a hard time.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
It's really, really fun if you have no context of
the consequences and sin isreally painful once you, once
the Holy Spirit starts makingyou aware.
But we do have.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
My point is like I mean, you look at abortion,
right, boy, I want to be assexually free as possible.
I just don't like theconsequences that sex brings, ie
babies, yeah, right.
So let's, as a culture, try tojust make this not what it is
right like, yeah, of course it'sfine.

(24:21):
Of course it's fine, just getrid of the consequence.
And now I'm free sexuallybecause now I have a remedy for
my consequence.
Right, and that that we seethat all across culture.
Right, that they they'retalking about.
There is a pharmaceuticalcompanies, it's this essentially
.
They're calling it theguilt-free pill, to where it has

(24:42):
the ability to, where, ifsomething happens, that isn't
that isn't stealing a lot ofguilt in you you're able to take
it and it almost does like thisguilt eraser, it blocks oh my
god guilt, so you don't feelguilt anymore.
So now we're saying I andthere's consequences to what I
did when we figure out a way toblock the sensors in my brain

(25:02):
that caused me to to feel guilt,which guilt has always been a
driver to repentance guilt hasalways been a driver to change
right.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
There is a book called brave new world by Aldous
Huskley which was written kindof as a continuation of George
Orwell's 1984, and he wrote thatbook in 1931 1984 came out like
the 20s but in that book thereis something called soma.
And so just think of the world1984, but kind of even more

(25:34):
extreme.
But in this world there's astroke out, soma that people can
take that will remove anynegative thoughts.
So if they experience any sortof trauma or something morally
compromising or they feel justdoubt about like if what they're
doing is right or wrong, theycan take, yeah it doesn't make
me feel good.
They take the soma and to justgo to like a dream state and and

(25:57):
kind of reset and it makes thebad feelings go away and in that
society people just take thatinstead of actually feeling pain
or trauma and growing andthat's how you see, though,
culturally happen all the time,where we're trying to shift
narratives to say, read thatbook, by the way.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Hey, that guilt you're feeling, you shouldn't,
you shouldn't have to feel thatguilt.
In fact, they're the ones wrongfor making for making you feel
good.
It's like whoa wait did I evensay anything?
Right like?
So it's argue that that's theworld, right, yeah, but
Christians do the same thing.
Theologically, yeah, wherewe're like man.
I show up to church on Sundayjust to make me feel better

(26:34):
about the guilt I feel from allthe sin throughout the week.
I just need that reminder.
I need that spiritual aspirinto make me feel a little what
was it called?
soma, so spiritual soma to makeme feel a little bit better
about my all the sin this week,so that by Monday morning I am
forgiven, all right back tobeing a sinner you know I think

(26:55):
there's that that country songby Luke Holmes where it says he
talks about being at church onSunday but then he hasn't been
calling in hungover most Mondays.
It's like, yeah, how many.
How true that is for a lot ofpeople of man.
I went to church today feelinggood.
I got, you know, took my soma.
Now I'm gonna go drink heavilyto where I'm hungover and not

(27:17):
and having to call in to workthe next day right, I can, even
I've been even more of astraight line during football
season.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
You get your Sunday morning, you got your devotion
and like man, I feel so free inthe spirit and loved, and you go
home and you're just cussingout the football team that has
no emotional attachment to youand you're doing that for any of
your kids and all that and it'slike, is that freedom in this,
in the spirit, there the way?
Okay, because your yourspiritual, so you take you
following your week right Sundayyeah.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
So the point is, is that Paul saying you cannot use
your freedom as an excuse to goindulge on the flesh, right?
So what does he say?
So, my brothers and sisters,you're called to live free, but
do not use your freedom toindulge on the flesh.
Believe that drug exists, bythe way.
Rather, serve one anotherhumbly and love, okay.

(28:03):
So here's the thing, the.
What is the antidote?
Right?
If you remove the guardrails,the training wheels, the
babysitter, how do I make sureyou don't just fall into sin, as
I'm in that freedom?
Right, he says.
Here's the antidote serve oneanother in love in love.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
I mean here's why the flesh?

Speaker 2 (28:23):
the flesh is self-centered, right.
It expects the world to conformto your desire and this is what
.
I mean, if you look, think oflust, right?
What with the problem with itis that when you see a pretty

(28:45):
woman walking by right andyou're looking at her lustfully,
she is no longer in terms ofyou're not seeing her through
God's eyes, of, you know, seeingher as a doubt.
Woman is made in God's image.
She was made to a purpose, tohis glory, as a vessel, or a

(29:05):
potential vessel of worship tothe Creator of the universe.
Instead, you turn her into anobject, as a possible object, as
a means to satisfy a sensualdesire yeah, you fun, you
basically removed any sort ofhumanity, you, you know in terms
of purpose, of how God made usright.
We say objectifying.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Objectifying, it's like that's what you're doing,
you.
When they say objectifyingwomen, it's like well, yes, you,
by lust too.
Lust is literally to objectify,you have to remember into an
object everything that wouldmake her unique or make him
unique or make whatever thatthing is unique and just make it
just what you need in thatmoment to serve your needs and

(29:48):
imagine if you went up and yousaid or your want, not need, hey
you vessel of worship andpurpose for God, who was created
in his image.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
You want to come sleep with me because I'm.
You know, I have this sensualdesire.
Right, of course, if you'relooking at it through that lens,
you would never have thatconversation.
Yeah, right, like so.
So the point being is that, andif you do get help, the point
is is that the flesh expects theworld to conform to you.
That's what selfishness isright.

(30:20):
I'm selfish meaning I expectthe entire world around me to
conform to what I want, wherewhat Paul says the antidote is
is no, you don't expect theworld to conform to you.
You instead go serve others inlove you operate outside of
yourself and you go serve others.
That's your antidote to theflesh.

(30:41):
If you're struggling withfleshly desire, go serve people.
Yeah, not to serve people, butserve them in love, right?
I think I've said it before,but one of the best pieces of
advice I'd ever got was having areal bad day and I was told,
you know, as I was kind ofcranky and you know just in my
you know sulking this I was toldgo serve somebody.

(31:05):
That's the last thing I want todo right now.
You know why.
It's the last thing I want todo, because I'm in my flesh
right now.
Yeah you are.
But then you go and I thesecond.
I went.
I went.
I'm like, okay, firstopportunity.
I was kind of convicted.
I'm like, all right, let meserve this person, go and serve
that person.
And my sulking, this was gone.
My Grumpiness and crankinesswas gone.
There was a new life in me.

(31:26):
The situation didn't change atall, but my spirit did yeah
because I was operating outsideof myself right.
So the, the, the flesh is inwardfocused but the spirits outward
focus of yourself.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
So if you want to engage and Be, by walking in the
spirit and getting out of yourfleshly desires, serve people
humbly and this is the otherproblem I'm gonna think about
too is that, um, we, we kind oftalk about selfishness a lot,
but, um, there are otherself-focused emotions that are

(32:02):
Inherently putting you outsideof the spirit, putting you out,
make sure, making it so you'refocused on your flesh and
focused on you.
All right, like self doubt,self, was I thinking?
Self doubt, selfish.
There was one more, there's onemore that was a big one, but,

(32:22):
but it's like you have theseemotions that when you just get
tied into your own, um, focusinginward, and you just lay there,
you stand still, you justfocused on well, why me, why me
this, why me x, y and z?
That is exactly when you'reoutside of Of the spirit at that
point You're not being led bythe spirit anymore.
You're being led by your own, byyour own desire, right, your

(32:43):
own desire, which is nowdictating your passion which is
dictating your emotions, yeah,right.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
So you know the.
If you make a lot of people tryto will their way through this,
sometimes right, like they makepromises to themselves and make
these little vows and thesecommitments right, that doesn't
help you.
Serving people helps you.

(33:10):
You know the.
If you look at Jesus, forexample, right, jesus had
Complete liberty in his life.
He had completely conquered theflesh.
Right, the.
We always talk about the divineelement of Christ, but if you
don't forget the human manPortion of Christ, right, he
Conquered the flesh.
How did he conquer the flesh?

(33:32):
Did he use that freedom?
Um, and all the liberty that hehad?
Right to Self serve.
Where did he?
What did he do?
He's a great man, he servedothers how did he conquer flesh?
as the man he served othersconstantly, his entire life,
every day woke up to serveothers, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Um, you know, and feed, teach right.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
And you know there's a movie out there.
The premise is essentially theSuperman story, but if Superman
used his powers for evil and notgood, it's like a horror movie,
oh man.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Uh, I want to see that movie, I do it, but the
concept's interesting right.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Because, now, what this positive thing of like oh
Superman, the the hero, yeah,but wait, what if he was evil?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
It was like if Superman was raised by abusive
parents, because that'sbasically what it is.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Is that what it is?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well, yeah, I was more until he becomes evil
because of the abusive parentingand then he just like, becomes
just like.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Okay, so I didn't know all that, I just do the
premise of what if Superman wasevil, not good, right yeah and
to my mind, he is evil becauseof the difference of the kind of
world right when Superman andyou know, right in his freedom
and his liberty, using the powerhe had to serve others versus
fear to be selfish.
Be self-serving with that samepower.

(34:54):
What does that look like?
Yeah, you know, and, and you?

Speaker 1 (34:57):
know, the, the whole idea of homelander from, uh,
from the boys on the amazon show.
That's the.
That's the end.
That's when you're talking,that's when you really the
example.
You're thinking of what ifJesus was just a narcissistic,
um, completely self-serving,self-focused person that just
cared about how people saw him?

(35:18):
Um, that's, that's homelander,right there.
Homelander versus Superman samepowers, but just narcissistic,
um, and totally focused on howthe world views that worship me.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Right, worship me because I'm worthy of that
worship.
And how the outcomes aredifferent.
Right, yeah, and Jesus is anexample.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Every day, served people not recommending that
show, by the way.
It's highly Crazy, it's not,it's not in the spirit at all.
Don't watch it.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
All right.
So, um, do not use your freedomindulge in the flesh.
Rather, serve one another.
Humbly in love, right, humblyin love, um.
Vows and commitments aren'tgoing to do it.
Your promises aren't going todo it, um, willing your way
through, it is not going to doit.
The way you conquer flesh is,um by serving others, you know.

(36:06):
Here's another thing I was justthinking about really quick on
this point.
When you look at statisticallyin the american church how many
people are sexually activeoutside of marriage, um Is about
equivalent To the inverse ofpeople who don't serve in church
.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh, it's interesting, um, and if you just think about
, like there's, there'severybody keep talking about,
there's this kind of which isridiculous, because most people
All right, most people aresexually active outside of
marriage, um, in the church, andthat's like a huge problem.
But then you're also sayingthat that means that most people
aren't serving.
I'm, statistically, it's aboutthe same.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
So my point is is that there's this epidemic in
the american church of you knowpeople are concerned.
Of you know, you know sexualsin in the church and it's like,
well, yeah, because they're allself-serving.
And how many of them areactually?
Serving the church or how manyof them are showing up on
sundays and just like, justserve me, serve me, serve me,
serve me.
I'm here to receive.

(37:05):
Don't pour their gifts back intoanything and serving it
practically.
So now it's just feeding thatright and then they're like well
, how am I not getting invictories?
Because you're not servingpeople, You're you're you're
serving yourself, you're you'renot serving outside of yourself,
right?
So Living, learn how to serveright, like if you want to
conquer, if you're serious aboutconquering some of that, paul
is saying you need to serve oneanother humbly in love.

(37:29):
But he continues Verse 14, forthe entire law is fulfilled in
keeping this one command Loveyour neighbor as yourself.
Okay, so a couple of thingshere.
Paul's bringing back the lawright.
He's already done this wholething about what the law is, its
function, right it.
But earlier we talked about inearlier episodes it's not that

(37:49):
the law, that the Torah was bad,it's the material that Torah
was working with Right.
Torah was good, it was justworking on sinners.
Yeah so it can never bring aboutany sort of justification.
It can never justify anybody,because the material it's
working on right.
But what does Jesus say that?
Um, if you follow this, thesetwo commands love God with all

(38:10):
your heart, all your soul, allyour mind and all your might,
and I love your neighbor asyourself.
That to which all the commands,or all the law, is wrapped up
under right.
Yeah, so he's saying you, ifyou, if you want To be good at
Torah, love one another the wayyou love yourself now here's the
question.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
It's a fun because all it's it really is.
All the Ten Commandments andall of the the law come down to
keep God first and treat otherswith it.
Want to treat the other way youwant to be treated.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
You know I love your neighbor as yourself and have no
other god, as we talked about,that is the apostle john, like
last week.
Right, that's the point.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Here's the one sentence summary of being a
christ follower and being one.
That's what I was saying.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Is that the apostle john we talked about last week?
His mantra and the end of hislife as he's being carried to
worship.
He just kept telling everybody,right over and over and over
have faith in Jesus and lovepeople, and that's enough.
Right the same thing just loveGod and love other people the
way you love yourself.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
And that's enough, because that is because you love
yourself more than they loveanyone here.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
The glation church is being pressured to go get
circumcised right under the lawand he's like, look, if you go
love people the way you loveyourself, you satisfy the entire
law To include circumcision.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,because there's been a
circumcision of the heart, whichpaul makes that point more in
romans, but um, but here's thequestion, though, because now

(39:31):
here's the metric right.
Well, how should I love?
How should I humbly serve youknow, how should ryan humbly
serve emran and love?
Well, how does ryan Pridefullyserve ryan and love?

Speaker 1 (39:44):
You know what I mean.
So it's an internalconversation that you have to
how did.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Let me ask you how did emran?
Love emran today.
You always got fed.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, you were fed, emran had emran had ryan bring
him food, that is true.
I guess I fed you today, um,but you made sure you were
clothed.
I, I showered.
I I didn't make sure you had ashower.
You um Certainly have a placeto sleep tonight.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, you're wearing clothes.
I'm thankful for that.
Yeah, you made sure that you,you weren't going anywhere naked
, right?
Yeah, you made sure that youwere clothed.
My point is that on the verybasic sense of just basic sense
of love.
The point is that, on the verybasic sense of just basic
sustenance, emran loved emranenough tonight in today, to make
sure you were fed, you hadwater, you had a place to sleep,

(40:28):
that you had clothes goodclothes that you had a shower.
Right, that's just you lovingyourself today.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Right To include other things that you serve
yourself.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Take care of yourself now.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
I love how christ used the metric.
He doesn't say, hey, I need youTo love like god loves, because
that's impossible.
Yeah he gave us a realisticmetric and says you have shown
the depths of your capacity tolove and how you love yourself.
Just take that depth andcapacity to love yourself and
put it outward, serve others andlove others that way.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
So how did you?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
love yourself today, and did you do you love other
people?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
that way.
Imagine if every married personjust did that just love your
spouse as you love yourselfEvery, every day of your
marriage.
And if you both do that and youwe haven't done the mutual
submission One yet it's likeyou're winning.
You're winning if you love yourWife or your husband the way
you love yourself and you takecare of your wife or husband the

(41:24):
way you take care of yourself.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
You both are gonna be cooking and that's the same
concept of mutual submission,right?
So?

Speaker 1 (41:30):
think about.
The hard part is when you letyou get in the way of you right,
it starts cars and problems,don't?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I'm there, like all right.
I see my wife, you know, doinga chore and I'm on the you know
the couch watching TV.
Like okay, if I was her.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
What I want, what do I, what would I, what would I?

Speaker 2 (41:46):
want me to do?
Oh, probably go help her.
Yeah, you just get up and go.
Hey, how can I help you?
And you just see her face lightup, right, um.
But there's other times I'm inmyself and I'm like oh.
I didn't ask her to go do thatchore.
I'm, you know, I'm gonna watchthe game.
Yeah and then it builds up, andthen you know she's frustrated
right, and it's like yeah, ifyou just love and submit to each

(42:07):
other the way that we love andsubmit to ourselves, right Like
we, we, we would do so muchbetter.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
I remember um is it paul that talks about the uh,
the, the complexity of marriageversus singleness, and that he
was like it's like being married, you have it so much harder
because of that constant processof development that's happening
.
Um, because it's like I, whatfor those that are not married,

(42:34):
because we use we're bothmarried, so we use that kind of
process of like, yeah, your,your wife and my wife are the
ones that are the ones we'reconstantly interacting with and
growing up spiritually, becausewe're that, we're constantly
challenged and you grow.
You can grow so quickly inmarriage because you constantly
have that feedback loop.
But for those that are singsingle, where do they get that
feedback?
Because they don't really havethat person that's, they're

(42:58):
almost visually being hurt or uh, or subject to whatever
tyrannies that they, that theyhave well, let me say this is
that Paul makes the argument ifyou cannot be married to go
serve Christ, then don't do itRight?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Because I'll just give an example my family, you
know, my kids and my wife, wentand visited family in Utah and I
was here, I had to work, Icouldn't go with them, so I had
a week by myself Right Now.
I would say in that entire timeI was very lonely, like I was
like very sad right, like thatwas very depressing coming home.

(43:38):
Like all the chaos and thecraziness that ensues in the
brown household that alwaysfrustrate me.
Once it was all gone, I wasreally sad, right.
So I want to make that veryclear.
I miss my family very much, butone thing that it did do is
that it gave me a lot of timebecause I had no obligation to
them in that week because theywere gone.

(44:00):
So I was like, well, what do Ido with my night?
What do I do with my day?
It's just me, and it gave me somuch time I was able to go
serve a widow.
I think we actually recorded acouple of podcasts that week.
Yeah, we did, we made dinner foryou, yeah, yeah, I was able to
come and do fellowship with youthat I would otherwise say.
No, I didn't go eat dinner withmy family.
I was able to spend time withyou guys, right, like it opened

(44:20):
up a lot of opportunity forother ministry aspects More
opportunities to serve, and Iwould say, if the antidote to
the flesh is serving others,when you're single, you have a
lot more opportunity and time toserve other people.
When you're married and youhave a family, you're still
serving other people.
It's just now, more focus, it'sfocused.
I'm serving my wife, I'mserving my kids.

(44:42):
It was my number one priority.
And then what's left over?
I'm able to go now serveoutside of them, right, because
they're my first ministry, whichis still important and still
good.
I don't want anybody to thinkthat I'm like I should have
never been married.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
I am very happily married and I'm very glad, I
don't think anyone thinks that,good yeah, I'm just saying I
didn't get that vibe.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
But part of the function of that marriage.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
It only matters if your wife got that vibe.
Yeah Right, yeah, Honey, youknow I love you.
He's like the way you said that.
No, yeah, Kind of kind of sus.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
But she, but you know her acting as that kind of
accountability to me.
Well, how does the singleperson do that?
Well, if they're serving othershumbly and love this way as
they love themselves, there'smore opportunities to do that,
and they're already gettingdiscipled by the spirit in that
process.
Right, we talk about everybody.
We talk about quiet time.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Right and it's like you know.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I just it doesn't seem, like you know, god is
coming to me and I'm trying tospend this time.
Maybe, if you want to get closeto God, you need to go where
God is.
Yeah, go serve.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
And.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
God is with hungry people, god is with the homeless
, god is with the lonely widow,god is with the orphan, god is
with.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, those dying in thehospital, oh yeah, and you know.
You know you can go where Godis, go serve, go serve in those
ministries and you're going tofind God very quickly and I can
tell you that the most amazingexperiences I've ever had.

(46:06):
You know the weird, the weirdstories that people are like.
Is that true?
Is he being dramatic, that kindof make people feel like a
little uncomfortable when theyhear him because you're like
there's no way.
Right, I've had those Likethere was this one lady doing
benevolence.
It just so happened that we wereat one of the baseball parks

(46:27):
for baseball game or practice orsomething and we saw this, this
van parked out.
It was getting dark, right,like it was later practice.
The kids are there.
You know baseball practice forleaving.
We just kind of note this, thisvan that's there.
Well, somebody else who was inour church, was on that same
team, was dropping their kidsoff at a daycare and they saw
the van was still parked throughthe following morning.

(46:47):
So they give a call like hey,it seems like they're still
there.
I think they're sleeping thereovernight.
I think they're homeless, youknow, and there's kids out there
playing out front, like there'skids, I think, that are living
in this van.
Like, okay, interesting.
So I go and I'm like, well, youknow, maybe it's broken down or

(47:10):
whatever.
So I went by the church.
I just picked up some, say, herbrother gift cards.
I picked up some bus passesthat we have, you know, some
Benette ones things.
Yeah, I swing by there and I goask them like, hey, you know, is
everything okay, you guysliving out of here?
And she's like, yeah, likeshe's like, but we're trying to
move.
You know, it kind of broke down.
I have a check that's coming.

(47:32):
I just don't have a way to getthere.
And I was like well, I havesome bus tickets here for you
that help.
And she's like what?
I was like, yeah, free bustickets.
And I did.
She just starts crying and shelike literally falls down
praising God.
And she said last night I waspraying God, just get me somehow

(47:54):
to the college.
I don't know why her check wasat the college, but yeah, just
needed to get picked up.
She just didn't have a way toget it Right.
She just give me a way to thecollege I could get my check so
I can get us out of thesituation Right.
And she was just praying God,find me a way there.
And this random dude on herperspective just shows up with
bus tickets for her and shetakes it.

(48:15):
She's crying, Bus pulls upright where we are.
She runs over there, gets onthe bus, goes over there.
And what about the kids to gether check that her sister was
there.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Another adult there.
But my point is is then I waslike well, was this true, right?
So I drove by at the end of theday and they were gone.
Um, they were able to, I guess,tow it away and they got them
out of their hole, right it?
Just I'm just saying thingslike that, like that's spirit
led man.
You know, and it is so cool tobe a part of that, but if I
wasn't willing to do theinconvenience of driving over

(48:46):
there?
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
And, just you know, having a conversation with
another, with another.
What do we call?
What do you call the callpeople.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
What do I call people ?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Image bearer.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Yes, yeah, so if you were willing to go and have a
conversation with another imagebearer and the church, wasn't
also attentive and said, hey, Ithink they slept there overnight
and cared enough to call hey,can we help them Right Like that
?
That's the kind of thing thatgets you, and when you have that
, there's nothing about you.
When you, when you're workinghands on for God's kingdom in
that way, there's no part of youthat's thinking internally in

(49:25):
yourself of how do I serve myflesh today?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Right, it's just.
That's why we're talking about.
The antidote is serving people,right, so let's continue on.
So verse 15 says if you biteand devour each other, watch out
or you will be destroyed byeach other Right?
So when people in the churchstart using their freedom to get
others to conform to adifferent agenda, right, that's
when you start seeing thesefights and you'll see Christians

(49:50):
start to devour each other.
I.
There's actually a sense in theGreek here that Paul actually
is talking about literallyphysical, physical violence.
I think, he had a concern thatyou're going to have two camps
You're going to have thecircumcision camp and you're
going to have, I guess, thegrace camp, and that this was
going to turn to like physicalviolence, because that's kind of
the way they did things backthen.
Right?

(50:10):
He says if you are not careful,you will bite and devour each
other and you will destroy eachother.
Nobody comes out of that.
Nobody comes out of a churchfight, a nasty church fight,
like victorious.
And we're here.
Right, he's like no, you willdevour each other and you'll
destroy each other.
You will both lose.
Right, so I say verse 16.

(50:33):
So I say walk by the spirit andyou will not gratify the
desires of the flesh.
Walk by the spirit.
What is the antidote?
Serve others.
Well, where do I serve?
How do I serve?
When should I serve?
You need to be walking by thespirit.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
I want to throw out there that, because my brain
came up with a question and thenanswered the question right
after, because the question thatcame to mind is that the flesh
has desires and if I walk by thespirit, I'm satisfying the
spirit and not satisfying theflesh.
But that doesn't get rid of thedesires of the flesh and that's
a problem for me because it'slike the desire is still there

(51:14):
and that's the most frustratingpart.
And then my brain kind of waslike you already know the answer
to this, and the answer that Icame up with or that came to me
as I was thinking about it, wasthat habits and choices and
character.
So your choices, the choicesyou make over time, become

(51:35):
habits.
So if you have a bad habit ofdrinking in excess when you're
sad, or drinking just to feel,or drinking to not feel, or of
watching porn whenever thefeeling tickles your fancy, or
gossiping whenever someonefrustrates you and instead of
talking to them about it you goand talk to someone else, you

(51:58):
have to make different choicesand at first it's going to be
hard, but if you make thosedifferent choices over time they
become new habits and you'llactually be able to replace
those old habits of sin or doingthe wrong thing and acting
outside of the character of God,acting outside of the spirit.
You can replace it with newhabits that are online with the

(52:20):
spirit, are online with hischaracter, and then you will
start seeing those fruits andyou will.
You will see your character orothers actually, more likely,
others will see your characterchange over time and you'll
start understanding that that'shappening, as they, as they
reveal that to you, so thatthere's a quote.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
I don't, I can't remember who it's by, but it
says we make our habits, andthen our habits make us.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
And so you have to make your habits, and your
habits become your character.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
So your habits make you right and, and you know the
idea being.
That's why, when you starttalking about spiritual habits,
spiritual discipline, yeah.
I'm conscious of.
Hey, I'm choosing.
We do said to make this choicefor this situation every time,
and it's very deliberate everytime, but eventually it becomes
automatic.
If you get good spiritual habit, and that spiritual habit will
then make you right and yeah,and if you notice, it doesn't

(53:10):
say that.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I guess the ultimate point is that you can change.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yes, but I would say walk by the spirit and you will
not gratify the desires of theflesh.
It doesn't say that it removes,like as you said, the desire.
The desire remains there.
Yeah you just don't gratify it.
And that's a frustrating thingbecause I think sometimes we
think and I want to get over thesin, I just can't.
I continuously have this desirefor it.
Well, it doesn't say that thedesire goes away, it says that

(53:36):
you don't gratify it.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Right when you walk by the spirit.
And here's what we want.
We want, Lord.
I'm weak in this situation ortowards this thing.
To remove the desire?
Yeah, and what?

Speaker 1 (53:47):
he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I got a prayer a lot what he did, but he doesn't do
that.
Yeah, paul talks about thisagain in Corinthians and I think
it's his first letter toCorinthians.
But he says you knowessentially what God does is he
doesn't remove your weakness orthe desire.
What he does is he gives youthe strength to overcome it.
So every day you are walkingagain in the reliance,

(54:12):
independence, the power, thesustenance and the grace of
Christ.
Something.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, something I realized over the last couple of
years is that I I hate me whenI am relying on me, and I love
me when I'm relying on Christ.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
And those are two different walks right.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
It's two different me's living in my head.
And it's like the me, that'slike this is, you're on the, you
know.
It's like you reach.
I think you reach a certainlevel of spiritual maturity
where you kind of a good idea ofwhat you're supposed to do and
you can have some spiritualimmaturity where you're kind of
just you're still relying onGod's law that's written on your

(54:55):
heart, but you may not know allof the why behind, why God's
law is written on your heart andand why it is the way that it
is.
But I think I've reached alevel of spiritual maturity
where at least no, and the butthe hardest part is knowing and
then still failing and justlooking at myself and just be

(55:15):
like why do you suck?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Well, I think there's a, you know, it's talking about
walking right, walking in thespirit, and what you're just
saying is that I feel like I'mstumbling sometimes everybody
has a unique walk right.
And we're talking about theidentifiers of freedom, right.
Yeah, there is.
You should be able to seesomebody in the way they're
living, the way they're walkingin life, and you're able to kind

(55:38):
of pull things out from them,right?
Yeah as an example, I was at awe were doing youth camp last in
this last youth camp you're atand the camp director.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
It was very nice.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
It was.
But the camp director came andhe was like he's like, hey,
you're a, are you military?
I said, well, not anymore.
I used to be, but I still workat the base and you know I go
through that whole thing.
He's like yeah, you can tell.
Like, really, why is that?
I'm like, he's like you.
Just, you guys have a walk likethe way you walk is different

(56:07):
than the way you know otherpeople walk right.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
It was the same thing on my campus when I was in NRTG
.
People knew I was in NRTGbefore I walked in.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
The same goes through spiritual walk and they could
just physically see it.
Yeah, and the same goes throughspiritual walk, where people
you don't even have to betalking and people are like man,
he, just the way he conductshimself, the way he walks in
life, that could, that's hiswife, that's the next see, it's
like something's different aboutyou.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
How are you in so deep and all this stuff going on
in your life and you yet stillare so literally free, right
Like free of?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
all of the like walk so much different from everybody
else, and like I felt that allthe time around.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
the next.
I'm like how are you like this?

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Wow, so verse 17, it says and I think this is very
relatable verse for most for theflesh desires, but as contrary
to the spirit.
And the spirit, what iscontrary to the flesh?
They are in conflict with eachother so that you are not to do
whatever you want.
He says if you are going tolive in the freedom of Christ,

(57:09):
that also means that you'vereceived the spirit, that
promise of the inheritance.
How do you walk in that freedom, Walking that inheritance?
Right, if you receive thespirit, then you walk in the
spirit, and the spirit iscontrary to the flesh, which is
what sin wants.
So if you're thinking thatyou're using this freedom of
Christ to go sin, then you'renot walking in the spirit,
because the spirit is contraryto the flesh.

(57:30):
Yeah, right, so you're usingthe freedom of Christ to go sin,
but you're not walking in thespirit.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
You're using your freedom from consequence to
justify doing whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Right Over here while not walking by the spirit, and
who he says is that they'reseparate right.
So what I like here is Pauldoes not live this pie in the
sky.
Christianity right.
He's not like this Uberidealistic.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
No, he lives that down in the trenches.
Christianity Right, yeah,exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Because this is probably again every single day.
I think every believer canrelate to this.
The flesh desires what iscontrary to the spirit, the
spirit contrary to the flesh.
So let me just put it this wayAny situation.
This is why Paul says this,james says this, but we need to

(58:16):
be slow to speak and slow toanger.
Well, why do I need to be slowto speak?
Because, naturally, the way weever want to respond to any
given situation, the way we wantto speak, you know, reactively
in any situation, is always inthe flesh.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah, usually right, it's the one that pops up first.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Slow down and think how do I want to respond right
now?
And just know that nine timesout of ten, that is probably
exactly contrary to what thespirit wants you to do.
Or wants you to say or wantsyou to act right.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
So something that my therapist told me this is a few
months ago.
This is actually an interestingone, because usually I just
bring up controversial stuffthat he says, but and he's very
good, he just says somecontroversial stuff sometimes
but something he said was thatif you feel a desire that you
are not comfortable with becauseI've talked to him about, like

(59:06):
sexual temptation and thosefeelings and all that and he
he's like, if you feel it, Imean, instead of just getting
angry at yourself, instead offreaking out that you're feeling
that emotion, just stop and tryand just try not to think.
Just allow your mind to gothrough the process of, of

(59:27):
manifesting the thought and thenallow it to leave, because
typically, thoughts and desiresare constantly popping up and
going down, popping up and goingdown in your brain all the time
, and and you focusing on it andallowing it to be reinforced by
focusing on it over and overand over again, is is part of,
is probably part of causing yourissues.

(59:50):
What he was kind of describingto me and so I thought that was
an interesting point Like if the, if the thought comes up
instead of allowing it toconsume your thought, and now
you're like, oh no, it'scontrolling me, blah, blah blah.
It's like just either turn toyour focus to something else,
have something that you're healso recommended like having and

(01:00:14):
for me it was scripture, justhaving a scripture in your head
that you would just start like amantra that you say to yourself
to distract you from the thing,or or just stop what you're
doing.
Don't act on the desire, don'tact on it at all, just just sit,
allow it to come and and seehow long it takes to just kind
of leave.
Because that's what thoughts do?
They come and go, they come andgo.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
So I would say what Bible says is you take every
thought captive.
And when and when we talk aboutsurrendering and being
submissive and surrendered overto Christ, that includes our
mind, our thoughts, right?
That's why it says love yourGod with all your heart, your
soul and your mind, right?
So when certain thoughts likethat come in, the idea is that

(01:00:57):
one, you take that captive, youstop it, say no, that's not me,
and you get anybody, paul wouldlater say is get your mindset on
higher things.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, right, and you know, I think I'm just, I'm just
highlighting that, at least forme, is one of the things is
like you, I try to stop it, andit's like, yeah, that's what I'm
focused on it, and it's likecaptive.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
You take that, you take it captive, you get control
and you put it to death.
And I think another thing, that, because I think one of the big
pieces here, if I could justsay you know, how do you?
So there's this danger andfreedom that we veer off and
descend, but there's also, well,how do I overcome the flesh?
If I'm struggling with fleshlythings and it seems to be

(01:01:39):
defeating me?
I'm trying to fight it.
I can't get over it, right, mm?
Hmm, like how do I get overthis?
Two things like you need to astarve the flesh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
And feed the spirit Right.
Those are your solutions.
Starve the flesh.
Feed the spirit.
You feed the spirit throughserving others humbly and love.
You feed the spirit in prayer.
You feed the spirit and Biblestudy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
You feed the spirit and community of believers and
accountability of believers,Right.
All those spiritual habits thatwe were just talking about with
you know habits, right?
Yeah, and you starve the flesh.
You remove those elements thatwould feed to that desire, right
?

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Build new habits and one of the exercises in terms of
thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
this helped me with the battle of porn.
I know this has helped manypeople.
This, this little bit right, isthat many times, when it comes
to certain desires of the fleshthat seem to it's like once it
enters it's like it's over Right, like for me it was like once
it entered it had control.
It felt like like I just I lostmy battle already.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Um, one of the things why it was because I was being
reactive to it, not proactive towhat I was struggling with, and
what I mean is that when thedesire hit for porn, it was
immediately.
Well, I lost the battle.
I'm going to go do my thing,right, um, but instead, of, what
I started actively doing isactually actively thinking about

(01:03:01):
it on my terms, not on theterms of my flesh, but on the
terms of my spirit, to reallysay okay, what is porn?
Why do I like porn?
Should I like porn?
Hey, do you realize how muchsex trafficking occurs in porn?
Is that your value, ryan?
You're okay with that?
Confronting yourself Right,like, and you make a.
I remember going through andmaking a list of realizing how,

(01:03:24):
you know, incredibly, incrediblyopposed the values of
pornography and in the wholeindustry is to the man,
particularly the man of God.
I want to be yeah, right.
So now I have this argument inthe spirit of what I'm
struggling with, so that by thetime it would enter my brain,

(01:03:45):
I'm like, hey, we wouldn't go.
Look, I'm like my mind wouldnot just go to the flesh and
went to the list, because I'veactually actively and
proactively thought about itinstead of being reactive to it
Right.
Yeah, and it helped me.
You had defenses.
And that's the things of howyou take those thoughts captive.
You put them to death.
You think of higher things,right?

(01:04:05):
How does this glorify Christ?

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
How does this?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
make me a better husband, a better father, right,
all those things.
And so let's continue on here,yes, sir, because, man, we were
kind of going on that for awhile that I.
So I say walk by the spirit,and you will not gratify the
desires of the flesh, for theflesh desires with the contrary
to the spirit.
The spirit is, but it'scontrary to the flesh.

(01:04:30):
They are in conflict with eachother, so that you are not to do
whatever you want, right, likeI just say.
One last thing.
This is an example, but thiswoman came, she's talking, one
time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Was it different?

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
woman.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Or is this the same woman from the van?
No, no no no woman in church.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Oh, this is a negative example.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Oh, but she, she had a question.
She was like you know my, thisis when you taught this Bible,
study a church.
And she was like I'm divorcedbecause I hadn't, I think,
allies.
I had an affair, but she's likeI don't feel guilty about it.
She says I, you know the manthat I had an affair with, who
is my current boyfriend.

(01:05:06):
You know, I really felt thespirit weed me to this man.
Hmm as I was like no, you missedbad.
Yes, like you miss this.
The flesh desires, but it'scontrary to the spirit.
God is not and does notcontradict his own character.
If God loves and honorsmarriage and he hates adultery,

(01:05:28):
why do you think that the spiritwould lead you into it?
Right, god doesn't tempt andtest anybody that way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
It's completely contrary to it.
The spirit did not lead youthere, your flesh led you there.
Your own disruptive thoughtshave tried to rationalize it in
your brain, to alleviate theguilt of something you know was
absolutely wrong.
Right, the first step inunderstanding this and this is
what we're gonna.
Part is you can next week we'regonna hit this because I'm

(01:05:55):
sorry.
I'm just gonna say we know whatacts of the flesh are.
Yeah, paul Gives us a bigexhaustive list just to remind
us, and a lot of us hate it somuch that we try to rationalize
it, but go well, that's notspeaking to me or my situation,
like.
No, it is.
It's very obvious.
The fact that you try so hardto rationalize your way around

(01:06:16):
it shows how obvious it is.
But what he's saying is justbut.
But this is, this is what Paulultimately does.
Right, because I like hissolution to this.
Let me just finish it off herereal quick.
Yeah first 18,.
But if you are led by thespirit, you are, no, not under
the law any more right.
If you have the spirit, youhave to guarantee of the

(01:06:36):
inheritance of a child ofAbraham.
If you have the spirit, you arefreed.
You are free from the flesh andthe slavery it brings.
But if you're not walking inthe spirit, what you're
essentially saying is I'mchoosing to walk in my chains.
Yeah, you are walking Withoutthat guarantee, you are walking
in slavery and you're ultimatelyunder the law.
At that point right.
Yeah so what I like about whatPaul's solution to this is well,

(01:06:59):
how do I Deal with the desiresof the flesh that has people
captive currently?
But if I don't have theguardrails and I don't have the
law to keep me there, you knowhow do I overcome that.
It's a positive thing.
It's about what you do Versuswhat you don't do.
Right and a lot of people tryto fight interesting.
Yeah, people try to fight thisin a way of like, okay, if I

(01:07:20):
just stop doing this, I'm gonna,my spirit will be better if I
stop doing this, if I, yeah,I'll find victories.
What Paul says is no, it's nota negative thing, and in the
sense that it's not about whatyou don't do, but you need to
start doing.
To go serve is go serve people.
Yeah, you go love people.
You need to be out there, builda heart for Christ.
Right You're now engaged withthe kingdom, and your heart

(01:07:42):
swells up and you startrealizing oh wow, I don't, I
Don't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
I don't desire things .

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
I don't desire that like I used to, and sometimes it
creeps in every now and then,but it's not like and you're
like wow, I just realized I havevictory over a battle that I
didn't even realize I hadvictory because I wasn't even
focused on that anymore right Isyou were living a positive
thing.
But if you're wanting to chooseto live in that slavery, he's
like well, now you are under thelaw, and under the law, not

(01:08:10):
living by walking by the spirit.
Well, the law is gonna convictyou too, because you can't, yeah
, find any justification thereeither.
So it's very simple.
I would say three things.
I talked about this last week.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I'm gonna reiterate it today Build a habit of saying
no to yourself and the littlethings so that, when it comes to
the big things that do matter,you already know how to say no
to yourself, right?
The second thing starve theflesh.
Right.
If there are things that areweeding you into certain sins,

(01:08:42):
starve it.
Yeah, right, even if the thingitself isn't bad in itself but
it's leading you into sin.
Starve it, cut it outcompletely.
Right.
If if alcohol, right, having onemeans having eight and then
having a lot yeah if and thenhaving eight means that you lose

(01:09:04):
all control of your body and gostep around.
Yeah, cut it out, cut it outcompletely, just starve the cold
dirty flesh right, I juststarve it if the horn is a
problem.
Get rid of every single mediathat that tempts you.
Well, you would you mean gointo a dumb phone?

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, you mean getting rid of that, for eight
months I legit went to I wouldsay that for me, I went to a
flip phone for eight months.
I Got rid of social media overthe course of two or three years
because I I I found that thatwas a trigger, a trigger gateway
directly to pornography.
I would see Some girl the disc.

(01:09:44):
You know, the discover tab onInstagram is just a mess and the
AI knows who you are, so itknows what I wanted to see and
it would just generate all thisstuff and it's like it was just
a rabbit hole every, every time.
So I cut that out and and thenI but it wasn't enough.
So I was like I just can't haveinternet for a while and I got

(01:10:05):
rid of my smartphone for foreight months.
Even now I still have prettysignificant restrictions on my
iPad and on my phone to toDestroy as much of that
temptation as possible at leastas many of those avenues as I
possibly can and still be ableto like work, practically Starve
the flesh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, if it's it's, it's an anger, is your problem,
right?
If I, man, I just realized Iwas my temper.
It's just, I am angry, I'm anangry person.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Oh wait, I wanted to tie that.
Then no, like cuz some me, someof you might be listening like
man Imran's like real extra andit's like Imran really doesn't
like his sin and Imran is isreally trying to get in the way
of himself and Imran's beenreally honest, right and which I
think is great you know what I?

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
mean Cuz.
That's another piece.
That kind of missing sometimesis we're not honest with each
other, with our battles in ourParticularly in the church,
right, there's not thetransparency that there probably
should be, but the battleswe're facing.
Everybody just has thatInstagram filter on in church
like, oh, we're good, we're good.
Yeah, you're good, yeah, I'mgood, yeah, we're all good.
Yeah, well, praise Jesus, rightand all reality is that

(01:11:06):
everybody's struggling withsomething we're not being honest
about, and so you know whateverthat is like, what are those
triggers, but just starve theflesh to death.
Right, starve it to death.
The second thing is feed thespirit.
Right, we were talking aboutgood spiritual habits, right,
building good Habits in yourlife, making those choice,

(01:11:29):
conscious choices, of building ahabit that feeds the spirit.
So if you find yourself, forexample, if you're gossiping,
and as you gossip you realize ohman, this is where I always
gossip or to the people, or, youknow, it's always my Engaged
with this person that I startedengaging in gossiping, right,
said every woman's history ofthe flesh.

(01:11:50):
Replace that thing that timewith something that feeds the
spirit, right?
Yeah, so it may be your bookclub, if you may have to get a
new book.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Yeah, there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
They're this guys.
There may be things you have togive up that you like, right
like, but if you're seriousabout it, you want to wage war
against the flesh.
Sometimes you got to make thoseradical changes right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
And I knew the other thing was you were never told it
would be easy.
There was nothing about thisrelationship.
I remember it was easy.
It says that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
If you walk by the Spirit, you won't gratify the
desires of the flesh.
The desires can always remainthere right, so you're.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
It's a conflict inside of you but.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
But I would say, though, is replace when
particularly maybe you're losingyour battles.
You know, if it's always goinglike pornography, if it's at
nighttime, replace that withBible study time if.
Having certain conversationswith certain people where you're
about to go into gossip.
Replace that with prayer time.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
You know what I?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
mean?
Do the things replace the thosenegative elements of the Part
of starving the flesh isreplacing it by feeding the
Spirit.
Yeah, you know mean.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
I want to say that there's More to feeding the
Spirit than just Like a Biblestudy or prayer and stuff like
that, and those are definitelyfantastic things.
But where Paul talks about loveyour neighbor as yourself, like
maybe replacing that like,let's say that a certain time

(01:13:19):
you always start drinking andit's like, well, maybe at that
time you go serve somebody yeah,you go serve someone.
Maybe you call your mom or youset as that as the time that
you're gonna call your mom, yourmom or your girlfriend, so that
you're replacing that bad habitwith a good habit.
Now you're buildingrelationships and sustaining
relationships.
If you know that you alwaysWatch porn, or the desire to
watch porn hits at a certaintime, maybe set that as the time

(01:13:41):
that you and your wife Just sitdown and and talk and catch up
on how the day went.
Also, if you're not doing that,you know, set aside Like 10
minutes a day or so to talk toyour wife and act about like how
your day went, because then bythe end of week then you
actually talked to your wife foran hour and 10 minutes.
You know about things that arenot just house hunt, house stuff
.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Well, that was a meaningful conversation with in
terms of feed the Spirit, right,yeah, and those spiritual
habits, those good spiritualdisciplines that replace the
time, that which you're failing,with those positives, right and
like you said.
All right, I'm gossiping rightnow.
How do I replace that time withloving somebody the way I would

(01:14:23):
want to be loved in thesituation?

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I can guarantee you Nobody wants to be gossiped
about now.
Nobody likes the idea ofKnowing that there's people out
there who are talking about mewhen I'm not present, in a
negative sense.
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
How would I?

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
love myself in that I wouldn't gossip about me.
So then why do you gossip aboutothers?

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Love yourself or love others the way you love
yourself, right?
So replace that with love,replace it with serving it's
it's.
A lot of people are like oh, Ijust don't have the time like
you have plenty of time.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
Right, you have enough time for yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Yeah, it's like do you think people who are Serving
in church, like who are puttingon a wanna, who are doing youth
group, who are doing the men'sand women's ministry, who are?

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Yeah, helping hands, helping hands benevolence and
all that, do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
they're.
None of them are married.
None of them have kids.
None of them.
Oh, so oh.
They have time for the game,the married people for the
married people with kids getmore hours in a day, or you know
.
I mean like, yeah, we all havethe same amount of time in a day
, so how are they able to do it?
And you're not.
It's.
It's not a time problem, it isa priority problem and.

(01:15:35):
And you're like I Don't havetime to serve, and then you're
gonna be far more in your fleshthan you want to be.
I'm telling you, like it isamazing if I go just two weeks
Without serving, practicallysomehow, right like I'm getting
ready to go to Guam, right forfor like ten days for work yeah,
ten days, like that's a lot oftime I Won't be practically with

(01:15:58):
my hands serving the churchright.
I'm gonna use that time, a lotof that time, to be doing Bible
studying and we run a couplesermons that are coming up and
be writing some series right.
I'm gonna use that time for thekingdom the best I can in that
time.
But I always find myself by theend of like those kind of trips
.
I'm just like, why am I?
I'm just like really in theflesh right now like I'm very

(01:16:20):
angry.
I found myself complaining moreI can find my right, yeah it
does wonders like your antidoteis to serving people and loving
people the way you want to beloved.
Start the flesh.
Feed the spirit, built goodspiritual habit.
Replace bad, sinful habits withgood spiritual habits and and
start waging war against theflesh.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Yeah, I think that for this week I just want to
leave off by just reading thescripture again, because it's
just so clear and concise goinginto this week.
So for Galatians 5, 13 to 18,I'm just gonna leave you with
the with God's word, for youwere called to freedom.
Brothers Only, do not use yourfreedom as an opportunity for
the flesh, but through loveserve one another, for the whole

(01:17:03):
law is fulfilled in one wordyou shall love your neighbor as
yourself.
But if you bite and devour oneanother, watch out that you are
not consumed by one another.
But I say walk by the spirit,and you will not gratify the
desires of the flesh, for thedesires of the flesh are against
the spirit and the desires ofthe spirit are against the flesh

(01:17:24):
, for these are opposed to eachother to keep you from doing the
things you want to do.
But if you are led by thespirit, you are not under the
law.
All right, and with that We'llsee you next week on real Bible
stories.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
It will serve and love somebody Amen.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
Thank you for tuning in to real Bible stories.
If you enjoyed this podcast, besure to leave a review, share
and subscribe to be notifiedeach week when we upload new
episodes.
Real Bible stories is producedin partnership with Palm Church
in 29 Palms, california.
If you would like moreinformation or want to check out
archive sermons and Biblestudies, please check out the

(01:18:07):
church website at palms Baptistchurch comm or check them out on
Facebook, instagram or YouTube.
Real Bible stories can be foundwherever podcasts are found.
Thank you again and we will seeyou next week.

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