Ep 80 But What Was Left in the Tomb? The Real Reason the Disciples Saw and Believed

Discover the profound connections between ancient biblical garments and our modern faith as we celebrate two transformative years of "Real Bible Stories." With Pastor Ryan Brown as our teacher, we'll unravel the rich meaning behind the clothing of Jesus and his disciples, revealing how these threads lead us to a deeper understanding of redemption and our identity in Christ. As we reflect on the past, we'll also look at how these stories can impact our spiritual lives today.

Join Selena and I in a heartfelt conversation that traverses the historical landscapes of Roman emperors and Jewish customs. We'll dissect how the resurrection of Jesus shifted the religious and political currents of an era, and how the intricate details of Jesus's burial clothes at the empty tomb provided more than just a clue to His resurrection—they signified a transformative moment for the disciples and for all who follow. Pastor Ryan's insights will illuminate the cultural and religious contexts of the time, enriching our understanding of the sacred narratives we cherish.

Wrap yourself up with coffee or tea as we discuss the Jewish prayer shawl and it's enduring symbolism of faithfulness, commitment, and divine protection. We'll explore its connection to stories of deliverance and authority, from Ruth to David, and its significance even in death, as seen in the gospel accounts. Through this anniversary episode, we invite you to celebrate the milestones we've shared, be inspired by the symbols of deliverance in Christ, and find comfort in the spiritual heritage that continues to shape our journey in faith.

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Notes: https://sermons.church/archives?church=PalmsBaptistBibleStudy&id=126
Website: https://real-bible-stories.square.site
Check us out on these Streaming Platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1912582/share

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Real Bible Stories.
Join us as we deep dive intothe historic, religious,
cultural, political andemotional context surrounding
the real lives of real people inthe Bible and the stories we've
all grown to love.
Hello and welcome to Real BibleStories.

(00:25):
I'm your host, emron Ward, andwe are joined by my wife, selena
, and our teacher for tonight,pastor Ryan Brown.
What's going on?
Everyone All right?
It is good to be on the podcastwith the two of you.
We are well.
Well, at least me and Ryan arewell-capitated.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Selena actually did not drink coffee today.
Thanks for getting me in a bed,guys.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, Selena was bedded down for the night and we
were like, well, it's time torecord the podcast, so we're
going to get back up and get toit.
And then we completely derailedthat for like an hour and just
talked about like work and allthat and it's been fun.
But we are like hyped up rightnow, hyped up and ready to talk
about Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I did want to tell you guys happy second year
anniversary of the podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Is it really?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, January 30th.
Oh, wow, so by the time thislaunches, it will be two years.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Does it feel like two years?
It doesn't feel like two yearsto me.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
It.
I don't know.
I actually it does feel liketwo years, because I thought it
was actually the third yearanniversary, but now I'm
thinking that doesn't make anysense.
But I saw the counter-invitefor it, so yeah, yeah, and we're
only going to be doing this forthe rest of our lives, so we
have plenty of episodes to getto, and the Bible is you can
never truly exhaust it.
So infinite episodes there.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
I would have wanted to celebrate with cheesecake,
just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's not the 30th yet , so we can.
What 30th?
I think you said the 30th wasthe Our next recording, Our next
recording, Our next recording.
We can get Bunt Cakes for thosethat are, for those that are in
the know and have watched allthe or listened to all the
episodes.
You know that Ryan's favoritecake is Bunt Cake, so maybe we
can do that.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
It's my favorite cake , but I do.
I'm very fond of them and I wasjust surprised you never had it
, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, when you called me out in the fire pit.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
That's right, yeah, you don't know what a Bunt Cake
is.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
If you know, you know .

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah, anyways.
So, anyways, what we aretalking about tonight and I
decided to kind of go with thisbecause I think it kind of flows
from what we talked about lastweek there's a lot of discussion
about what Jesus looked like interms of like clothing and how
he was identifiable as a rabbiand things like that.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
And that was a shocker last week.
That was a good one, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
Kind of like understanding, like there's this
assumption that that maybeJesus and his disciples were
uneducated right.
They're from Galilee andthey're from you know.
there's, you know, poor people,but realizing like the education
system was a little bitdifferent for them, so that even
poor people were Prettyeducated, right and at least in
terms of things of the Torahright, yeah so but part of that

(02:54):
was like what did Jesus looklike?
What did he wear?
And there's an interestingstory in John, the Gospel of
John, and it's actually Jesus'sclothes.
That actually is a tip off toone of his disciples that he has
risen.
And I find this veryinteresting because on the front
end, everybody, I think, comesto faith in Christ a different

(03:17):
way, their own way, to make ittruly theirs Right, and
everybody has different elementsthat they need that kind of
ultimately act as the convencer.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
I know I've said it before, but like when I was kind
of in my recommitment phase offaith, you know, realizing that
I have not been living this tothe way I should and I need to
take this more serious, but I'mgoing to take it more serious
and I started listening, youknow, with intent about what
that actually means to be a truefollower, disciple of Christ, I

(03:56):
started understanding a littlebit more of the sacrifice with
that demands, right.
And I started kind of like, ifI'm going to dive into this the
way I should and what the Bibledemands me right, and what
Christ demands of me as abeliever, I need to be
absolutely certain, right, thatthis is true.
And you start kind of going on.

(04:18):
I guess you could call it thefaith journey, right, and
everybody needs their ownjourney and I think everybody
can start their journey indifferent places.
A lot of times our journeystarts off the paving of someone
else's journey, right.
For some, their parents kind ofpaved a way a bit, but at some
point you got to kind of pick upyour own pack and go on your

(04:40):
own journey of faith to make ityour own right.
And I know we did that oneepisode with Jacob, right.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Where you know he wrestled with God, but before
that interaction, that twoepisodes is one of my favorites
and I revisit it all the time.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
So yeah, really, Because that one was one where,
you know, before Jacob wrestledwith God, he had always referred
to you know God as the God ofAbraham.
The God of Abraham, the God ofmy father, the God of Isaac, and
it's not until after hewrestled with him and he walks
away.
He says the God of Abraham, theGod of Isaac, my God, right?

(05:20):
So there was this transitionpoint of Jacob kind of living
off of his father andgrandfather's faith.
Then there's this transitionwhere he actually finally
wrestles with it and then itdoesn't become the faith of his
father, it becomes his faith hisGod right and his name was

(05:40):
Israel.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
That was given to him right.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
His name was changed to Israel right, god who
conquers right.
So, like everybody has thatjourney, everybody needs to kind
of and what I've always justnoticed about people is how they
ultimately land.
There is always different rightand you see the same thing with
the disciples.
You see, by doubting Thomasright, we did a doubting Thomas

(06:04):
episode, which I think is anunfair categorization of him.
But for Thomas, he needed tosee the holes right, he needed
the evidence that Christ hadpresented to the other disciples
based off their testimony.
If, unless I could put myfinger, his hands right and his
side, I won't believe right.
And he gets that and he believes.

(06:25):
Right, you get-.
I'm just trying to think of theEmmaus disciples.
Right, they were walking withhim on the road on Easter day,
not recognizing it's him.
It's not until he really prays.
They're like wait, I know that,right.
And then how he prayed was kindof this tip off to them, like

(06:46):
wait, I don't know who this is.
For Mary Magdalene at the tomb,it was the way he said her name
.
She recognized his voice.
Oh God, you know what I mean.
So everybody, you see thesedifferent, you know, coming to
faith.
For me it was more of justunderstanding a cluster of facts

(07:06):
that just seemed to be Like.
If that was the only like.
You take any of the historicalfacts around the resurrection of
Christ, I would be skepticalenough to say like you take that
one fact, I'm like, yeah, butthat's not enough.
Yeah.
Right and I think all thoseother facts, as Stan alone has
said.
Yeah, maybe, but I could alsopoint to this over here.

(07:28):
That doesn't mean I believethat right.
It's more of like the diversityof it coming in clusters.
For me that was like it justseems to overwhelm.
I just-.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think we did that a little bit of that.
It's like how do we know we cantrust the resurrection?

Speaker 4 (07:46):
Yeah, we did an apologetic episode, that one.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, but we really dived into like, well, what does
the history say, what do thefacts say, what does the Bible
say in the context of history?

Speaker 4 (07:55):
And there's not really a smoking gun.
At least for me there wasn'tright.
Yeah, I even just learned thisone recently.
I know in a previous episode Ihad put forward an idea of who
Luke was writing to Theophilus.
It's just to my dearest mostexcellent Theophilus.
I had this theory thatTheophilus was a fellow doctor

(08:20):
of Luke, like a friend, theywere doctors together because
he's just very precise medicallanguage, right.
But then I found out that thehigh priest who took over for
Caiaphas after Caiaphas, who'sthe high priest during Jesus,
his name was Theophilus and thatwas a common Greek name.

(08:41):
But then the term my dearestmost excellent is a phrase that
you like, you would, if you'rewriting a formal correspondence
to like the high priest or agovernor or somebody of high
status, you would, that would beyour phrase.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
That would be how you use it.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
So, like there's all these other kind of indicators
that I'm, I've actually shiftedon that.
I actually think Luke iswriting to Theophilus, the new
high priest.
So then it's like this was awhole rabbit hole.
I went down like a few weeksago I was studying something
else and I had to chase thisright.
But I'm like okay, then whywould he be writing to him?

(09:17):
And then he learned duringTheophilus' time or reign as
high priest that was right afterEmperor Tiberius, who was the
emperor of Rome during Jesus'time Caligula just took over and
Caligula had if you guys don'tknow anything about the Roman
emperor, caligula the dude was apsycho, he was a pervert, he

(09:39):
was like this dude was likederanged right, and he had made
a promise.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Is he the guy who would line the streets with
Christians, cover them in waxand burn them in stone?

Speaker 4 (09:47):
That was Nero that came.
That came after Caligula.
Okay, so they just got worse.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, I mean yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Rome.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
Well, the thing with Caligula, though, was as I
applied to the Jews, though, wasthat he had made a promise,
essentially said that I'm goingto come in, I'm going to tear
down your temple and I'm goingto build a golden statue of I
want to say it was.
I want to say it was forEmperor worship Augustus.
It may have actually been Zeus,I can't remember exactly, but

(10:17):
he essentially said I'm going toplace this golden idol in place
in your temple.
He wanted to completely wipeout right?
So it's like well, why is that?
And this is what just blew mymind the whole context of
Caligula wanting to come replacethe stuff in the temple was the
resurrection of Jesus.
And it's like well, how doesthat play Right?

(10:40):
And then this is.
This is like I said, like thisis some, just more things that I
keep learning.
I never knew this, I justlearned this, but and we learned
this from the for Tutilean, theChristian historian, tutilean,
okay, um.
Which you could say like well,just because Tutilean says it
doesn't make it true, but, butTutilean was also in a
generation where this would havebeen a verifiable fact.

(11:02):
So he he makes this in anargument right To Rome that Rome
very well could have like, isthat true?
And they could have went andverified.
They kept records and documentsof things right, and what he
essentially what we learned fromhim was that the emperor
Tiberius had gone to the RomanSenate and asked them to deify
Christ, to vote to make Jesus agod.

(11:24):
And the reason Emperor Tiberiusdid that was based off the
testimony of Pilate and hisreport back to Tiberius about
everything surrounding Jesus.
Like, hey, there was this man.
This is what he said.
This is what his followers saidhe was.
This is what he told mepersonally and um, that's also

(11:44):
why Luke has that account,probably in his gospel.
Um, but this is what,everything that Jesus said to me
.
This is what happened.
We crucified him and then hisbody disappeared, like, and then
they said they started seeinghim, like, tons of people said
they saw resurrected Jesus ofNazareth and he said that he was

(12:06):
a king.
He said that he was like allthese things right, um, ie, son
of God.
So, based off the testimony ofPilate, tiberius said did we
crucify a God?
So he goes and asked the Senateto vote to deify him within
Roman right Religion.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
So it'd be a son of Jupiter at that point, I guess.
No, he would have been his ownthing and remember oh right,
right, right Cause.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Rome doesn't have a hard time with that right Cause
they're polytheistic.
The Senate ultimately chose notto vote on it cause they knew
nothing about it.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
They just chose not to vote.
So it wasn't like they votedand chose right.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
They said we don't know enough about what is going
on here, right.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
So they chose not to vote right then.
And there then, tiberiuseventually dies, collegula takes
over.
So in this context of that,collegula, as crazy as he was,
was also very astute andunderstood.
Something is that if we were tovote to deify Christ right
Within our religion, and if that, if that is true, if if Jesus

(13:10):
of Nazareth was a God and Jesusof Nazareth also said that
there's only one God, and Jesusof Nazareth also said that all
of our gods are false, so bydeifying him, we completely
invalidate all the rest of ourreligion and he found that
extremely offensive and thewhole fact that this was
tolerated and it was even goingon.
There's this whole movement ofChristianity growing.

(13:31):
He's like I'm going to show thesuperiority of our faith.
So there's this whole thingwith that.
So I know I'm kind of going outof rabbit.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
This is not really what we're talking about.
This is the episode.
This is just cool, right.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Because then theophilus, the high priest, he
is coming into this environmentof trying to figure out how do I
keep the Roman emperor fromdesecrating our temple, right,
and this is all based off of acontext of this Jesus of
Nazareth, who claimed to bemessiah, our messiah, who was
resurrected, right.
So when you see Luke introducehim, I'm going to give you I

(14:07):
know you've received an orderlyaccount.
And if you guys, a new highpriest, would say hey, here's
everything going on, here's thehistory of everything.
Right, there's a turnover,right, there is a, we're going
to tell you what's going on andwhat you're coming into.
So he says I know you'vereceived an account of this
already.
I felt necessary to give you myorderly account of everything
that you've been told.
So he gives an orderly accountbased off interviews and

(14:30):
testimonies of the other of allthe disciples.
This is what happened.
So just know, moving forward,of whatever you do, I understand
this is the testimony of whoJesus of Nazareth is right.
So it like to me.
I was like, oh, this makes somuch more sense, right?
So that's my new, that's my newtheory.
Right, I think, and it fitsright.
But whether or not the alphalosreally is the high priest or

(14:54):
not, it doesn't change the factthat Emperor Tiberius asked the
Senate to vote to defy Christ,right?
So, like all those clusters ofthings, for me, right Made it.
This is real.
So everybody's different right,everybody has these different
things.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
What's interesting for me, there was never a
smoking gun but, what'sinteresting, a smoking gun that
would say like this thisbasically disproves the overall
that this absolutely 100% isundeniable by this one fact
alone that Christ raised fromthe dead.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
For me, there was never that smoking gun.
It was the cluster of thingsright, like things like I, like
I just went through right.
But for the apostles and thedisciples they had smoking guns,
seemingly, and what'sinteresting is one of them is
what Jesus left behind in thetomb For the, as the Gospel of
John writes, the apostle, or theone whom Jesus loved, right,

(15:48):
for that individual there was asmoking gun for him that he went
, he looked in, probably just aswe just read it.
So go ahead so we can read itfirst.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, so we're reading from John 20, verse 1
through 10.
Okay, early on the first day ofthe week, while it was still
dark, mary Magdalene went to thetomb and saw that the stone had
been removed from the entrance.
So she came running to SimonPeter and the other disciple the

(16:19):
one Jesus loved and said theyhave taken the Lord out of the
tomb and we don't know wherethey have put him.
So Peter and the otherdisciples started for the tomb.
Both were running, but theother disciple outran Peter and
reached the tomb first.
He bent over and looked in atthe strips of linen lying there

(16:39):
but did not go in.
Then Simon Peter came alongbehind him and went straight
into the tomb.
He saw the strips of linenlying there as well as the cloth
that had been wrapped aroundJesus' head.
The cloth was still lying inits place, separate from the
linen.
Finally, the other disciple whohad reached the tomb first also

(17:02):
went inside.
He saw and believed.
They still did not understandfrom Scripture that Jesus had to
rise from the dead.
Then the disciples went back towhere they were staying.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
I think that one of my all-time favorite verses of
the Bible is in verse 4, whereit says and the two were running
together, but the otherdisciple outran Peter and
arrived at the tomb first.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
It's like alright, guess you had to leave that
little tidbit in there thatyou're faster than Peter, but it
reiterates it in verse 8, whereit says Finally, the other
disciple who had reached thetomb first also went inside.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
So there's this interesting element at play with
.
You always see this rivalrybetween Peter James and John.
Now there is an argument to thedisciple whom Jesus loved.
It never actually identifies itas the apostle John.
It's called the gospel of Johnand this may have to be its own
episode about authorship and howthe gospel of John was written,

(18:03):
because they viewed things likethis could be the gospel
according to John.
So we already know John probablydidn't actually write this
because, like we talked aboutlast week, right Disciples of a
rabbi would not write there.
We're forbid, based off of orallaw, to write down the
teachings of their rabbi.
So we already know that whoeverpenned it was not probably

(18:28):
actually John, but it could havebeen, according to John by his
witness and testimony.
It could also have beensomething where it was a
collection of different thingscoming together that the apostle
John looked over and validated.
Yes, that's true.
Yep, I was there for that.
That's true from differentpeople.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
No, no, no, actually you put in there.
That was faster than Peter, butwhat's interesting?

Speaker 4 (18:47):
like a good thing.
That's like there was alwaysthis rivalry between John and
Peter.
They're always fighting withthe inner circle of Jesus, of
like who's going to be thegreatest?
Who's going to be the greatestright?
Yeah, remember James and John.
Their mother goes to Jesus andasks you know, asks them who's?

Speaker 1 (19:05):
going to sit at your right hand in the cabinet.
Can they sit at?

Speaker 4 (19:07):
your right hand, like you don't have no idea what
you're asking, but they willright.
They're going to bear my crosstoo, but you know not the way
you think.
But there's always this rivalryand it's almost interesting
that when, in reference to PeterPeter's kind of viewed, like
just those little shots, right,absolutely.
I outran Peter, I beat himthere.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Peter's also probably 10 years older than you, so
calm down.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
But the larger point, though, in that whole text is
the thing that seemed to.
It says that they saw andbelieved, but what it says is
that they believed after seeingwhat, and what it anchors you on
, is what Jesus left behind theclothes right.
And again.

(19:54):
So this requires some contextin terms of clothing right, yeah
, that's what it's anchored on,like.
What about this clothing thatJesus left behind got them to
say that means he is risen.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I think that what's already interesting is the
premise you're bringing up,because every time I read this
and I've read this verse a lotor this passage a lot over the
years I always took it as theysaw the tomb was empty and
believed he was raised.
But that doesn't make sense.
Like if I saw a tomb was emptyand I'd assume great bravers
came and like robbed the tomb,which is what the lady says.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Right, she says, hey, they took his body somewhere
and we don't know where they set.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
They brought him right and that's what got them
to go there to begin with,because that was the original
assumption Disciples go there,and now I have all the context
of knowing of how much schoolingthey actually had going into it
and how much knowledge theyactually would have had going
into it and what they would haveunderstood what they were
looking at when they saw it.
And so it's interesting now youbring up the kind of flip in
the script a little bit that itwas not what they didn't see

(20:52):
there, it was what they did seethere that made them believe.
And now I'm really interested.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Right yeah, and we talked about how Jesus would
have been very identifiably aJewish rabbi, right, yeah.
So in general, just in general,most Jewish men, in general,
not even a rabbi, right.
What they generally wore wassomething you'd call a haluk,
which is essentially like atunic, just kind of like a thin

(21:21):
robe, right, and that kind ofacted as your primary, like this
is what I wore, right, likethis was something like
undergarment.
You could say it's got a haluk,and if you were like working,
right, if you're like doing likelabor, work, if you're just
hanging around the house, right,not hosting anybody, you're
generally just in your haluk,okay.

(21:43):
Okay, another piece of that,though the outer garment, which
is what they call like a mantle,was called a toliet, and that
is what would have.
There was a really threeelements to that, which we'll
get here in a second, but thatouter garment, the toliet, was
what was the most identifiablething of being Jewish.
Okay.

(22:03):
In terms of clothing right.
Like Romans didn't wear atoliet the way Jews wore it,
romans wore like an outergarment, but it was not like
what a Jew would wear whichwe'll get here in a second right
but, like you'll see, so like,for example, when Jesus is
crucified, it says that theycast lots for who gets his

(22:23):
garment or his clothing.
What they're jockeying over ishis inner, his undergarment, his
robe, not for his toliet.
And because there was twopieces right.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, I just realized that, yeah, jesus was naked on
the cross, but and then theyauctioned off his clothes, but
yet he left some clothing in thegrave, like, did they put this
article of clothing back on hisbody after they took him down
from the cross?

Speaker 4 (22:56):
I'm sure that when they brought him down and went
to Barriam, somebody went andlike Sto those honors, yeah,
probably put a different set ofclothing on him or a sheet or
something.
But there is one piece that weknow where it was and where it
went, but in terms of the restof the body, the rest of that
robe that one of his disciplesprobably they figured that out

(23:16):
right they found a tomb for him.
They probably would have foundsomething to clothe him in until
they were able to clean thebody, or maybe not.
That's true, because that's whythe women went back was actually
bestowed the honors, and do theto clean the body, and they may
have even waited to like he mayhave been even naked in the
tomb, in the sense that we'renot going to put this on him
until we're done cleaning him,so not to stain.

(23:38):
You see what I'm saying, sothat, like I don't really know,
that's interesting, they'rethere.
I'm sure, if you were to digdeep enough and research enough,
you could probably find areasonable answer to that of no,
they probably would have lefthim naked.
Or no, they would have still.
I just don't have a clearanswer for that.
But but we do know that therewas at least the set in the tomb

(24:00):
right by the time of hisresurrection.
But just as I was just tryingto say, though, when it says
that they're auctioning off hisclothes, the, it's very specific
though it's the undergarmentright.
It's the, the, the, the, therobe right, the tunic, when
Jesus is teaching and it says ifsomebody asks like I think our

(24:22):
translations say like for ashirt, or maybe it says garment
or clothing, but he says youknow, if somebody asks for your,
your garment, give him also.
I'm trying to remember exactlyIf somebody asked for your, your
clothes, give them your, yourgarment as well.

(24:43):
But he's essentially saying is,if you were to be sued in court
, for example, somebody couldsue you for your clothes and
part of certain like there'sjust these weird things Like if
I go bear witness to you, apunishment could be like you
have to walk around nakedbecause you've been exposed as
being naked for a lie orsomething.

(25:03):
So essentially, he's like hiswhole idea is that if somebody
demands or is trying to sue youfor your, your under
undergarment which is really allthey would give they would
never give the outer garmentBecause there was, it was faith
based, okay.
But what Jesus says is that, hey, if they're, if they're trying
to sue you for your, your roberight, your tunic, give them

(25:23):
your toilet as well.
So there's a little bit more tothat teaching which I can't
really get deep into right now.
Right, but it's very specificright.
This is a big deal.
The the clothing for a Jewishman meant things right.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, it's like part of their identity.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
Exactly right, they're religious identity.
So what was the toilet then?
It's because the garb, the robe, is just like normal, right?
What really gave it was thetoilet.
Now, there were three parts ofa toilet.
One and this is going to bereally fun to say it's called a
seat seat, seat seat.
But the seat seat was what'sthat?

(26:03):
That's a clothing.
Yeah, it was a part, and thatwas the tassel that was attached
to your toilet.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
So it was on the corners, which we'll talk about
in a second because there's aspecific thing for that too but
on the corners, so like the, thetoilet was like almost like
this square shaped cloth thatyou kind of put over on the
corners.
You would put the tassels andon those tassels you would have
I'm trying to remember how manyexactly it was like how many

(26:35):
threads actually.
I think I have it, maybe evenwrote it down here, but see, it
had numerous threads and knotsthat were like attached to it.
Right, the tassel was itselfwas made of like like a white
silk thread, oh wow.
And then down the middle waslike a blue, a single blue
thread that was going down thistassel Jesus talks about against

(26:56):
the Pharisees, and we talkedabout this a little bit last
week.
But if, like, the Phariseeswould wear extra long tassels to
show their piety and we'll talkabout that more too and what
does?
piety mean Like how religiousand spiritual you are.
Oh okay, look how spiritual andmature I am.
Like look at the size of mytassels.
They made them extra long.

(27:17):
That's funny.
Most of them would weresupposed to kind of rest on the
side of your thighs, right Okay,they would make them some to
where they would even bedragging behind them.
Oh wow, in the dirt Right asthey're walking, just so
everybody sees right theirtassels right.
Okay, going going back.
But there was that single bluecon thread.
It's actually interesting andthat command is given in numbers

(27:38):
15 and also Deuteronomy 22 ismentioned it.
But the whole idea of having asingle blue thread within the
white silk was the idea.
Like that, you kind ofrepresented the blue thread that
was intermingled, which meansthat you are bound to the law.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
So understanding that the tassel.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
So the law is the.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
I guess that makes sense, that it's the pure white
and then the blue thread is you,you're entangled in it, you are
bound to it, you are one withit.
So the you know the tassel verymuch represented, I guess, your
faithfulness in a sense, or areminder of what should be your
demand of faithfulness to thelaw, the expectation, the
reminder of the expectation,exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
So that's what it you know that it represented that
also random plug If you want toknow more about how we interact
with the law now.
We did our food of the spiritepisode from our Galatians
series a few weeks ago wherebecause that was one of the
biggest things that I wasconcerned about, going even into
that series is like are westill under the law now?

(28:41):
And then how does the law playinto our faith today?
So if you're curious about that, that, go go back to our
Galatians series and take a lookat those two episodes.
Yeah, really good.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
Good, Nice plug.
What's interesting about thetalent or the the tassels, by
the way is that blue and purplewas representative of royalty,
particularly to the Romans, sothey actually forbade the Jews
from wearing blue and purple.
They only allowed it for thehigh priest because Rome was

(29:15):
really worried about classism.
So you know how like we calledthe blue collar and there's
white collar.
To them it would have been bluecollar or the blue.
The blue class Class is your,your elites, royalty rich, your
elites right To Rome, the highpriest was part of that elitist

(29:35):
class.
So they're like you can wear it, right, but you can't have all
these minions down here, right,thinking they're of equal class
as us, right?
So it actually forced dyemakers to go underground to
build illegally, essentially,the blue tassels For, for, for
the Jews, because it wasforbidden to to do that right.

(29:59):
So, anyways, that's just like aside piece, the other piece of
the, the toilet.
So you have the main right Umcloth itself.
Yeah, you have the tassels.
That.
That's portion two.
The third piece is what theywould call the Knaf, and that
was the very edges that thetalent or the, the tassel was
attached to.
Okay.

(30:19):
So just the edges of the of thecloth was called the Knaf.
It was really referred to asthe wings.
Okay, so, just to kind of giveyou an idea, just in terms of um
, like, um, like Jewish thought,right, Like when David um
speaks about how he takes refugeunder your wings, Um, he's

(30:44):
talking about the wings of theKnaf.
Well, what does that mean?
Well, the Knaf, the wings, right, the whole point of the talent
as an outer garment was reallywhat you would call is, in plain
terms, your prayer shawl.
It was your robe that, when youwould pray, you would flip over
your head as a covering and youwould.

(31:04):
You would put it over your headwhen you would pray, All right.
So when he says I take refugein the shadow of your wings, but
he, what David is saying ispoetically saying is I take
refuge in prayer, but when I,when things are going bad for me
, I'm able to always retreat andtake refuge in prayer and the
shadow of the wings of the Knaf.

(31:26):
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I love that, um, the earliestmention of it was in Exodus 19,.
Um there's also, like themessianic prophecy in Malachi
4-2, it says that there will behealing in his wings.
So what does that mean?
There's gonna be healing in hisprayer.
But even the bleeding woman wehad done this in Luke when she

(31:48):
touched it says that she touchedhis outer garment.
When she touched the tassels orthe the khanaf, or the tassels
right, cause there's healing inhis wings.
Like she was basing that off ofMalachi right.
So like there is a lot ofJewish thought around this.
Right In Exodus 19, theearliest mention, you yourselves

(32:11):
have seen what I did to theEgyptians and how I bore you on
the eagle's wings and broughtyou to myself.
In other words, you've seenwhat I did to the Egyptians and
how I bore you on the khanaf andbrought you to myself.
So what does that all mean?
Like?
What is this whole idea ofthought of the prayer shah, of
the khanaf, the tally as a whole, right?

(32:33):
Why was this such anidentifiable thing?
There's a couple of things thatmeant.
One thing that it representedwas deliverance and redemption.
Okay, so the idea that underthe khanaf, under the tally, I
brought you out of Egypt, right,that you took refuge there and

(32:54):
I made you my own, isassociating it as a reminder,
one in terms of prayer, right?
Why prayer?
Because it says that theHebrews were crying out.
They're in prayer.
They were crying out to God todeliver them and he says I heard
you, I heard your cries, I'mgoing to deliver you out.
So, under your wings, I broughtyou to myself.

(33:16):
I heard your prayers isessentially what he's saying, is
a poetic way of saying I heardyour prayers, I heard you and I
delivered you.
Don't forget that I deliveredyou out of that right.
So it was meant to be a symbol,a reminder of deliverance and
redemption.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
And Ruth.
That's interesting that overthose several hundred years,
that all of these differentreminders, because you said it
was all oral.
We talked about that last week.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
We talked about it.
Well, a lot of it was oral.
So it's, a lot of it was oral.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
But for the average person it was basically all oral
.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
Well, exodus would have been one that every Jewish
boy would have memorized, right?

Speaker 1 (33:56):
But it's like I'm just highlighting that, on top
of the stuff we talked aboutlast week with the memorization,
they also had these physicalthings that they wore and
carried to help remind them ofthings that they would have
learned in these schools.
So it's like other, just likethings in their lives that are
reminding them constantly and Ijust think to today and it's

(34:19):
like what do we have?
That's that thing that'sconstantly reminding us of our
faith and helps us focus.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
What does Jesus say we're supposed to do?
Remember Right, lord supper.
That's why one of his biggestcommands is you need to remember
.
You guys need to meet together,break bread together, take this
Lord supper together toremember what I did right.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
It's one of the things like why is church
important?
Why is community in the bodyimportant?
It's like because if you're notconstantly engaging with the
word, it's like that distance.
It literally creates distancein your relationship with God.
And then that distance is whatgives, say in, that opportunity
to slide right in, or gives anaferriest person in your life

(35:00):
that opportunity to slide rightin, and it seems it makes more
sense.
It sounds easier to fall intothat sin when you've already
created that distance betweenyou and God by not engaging with
him daily.
And it's like they wore thesethings that reminded them
constantly of the things thatthey learned.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Yeah, imagine, before you're about to go do something
you're not supposed to do, andyou're looking down and you see
your tap.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
And as you're wearing it, you're wearing your towel,
and it's coming down.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
I'm bound to this right.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
We have kind of like a wedding ring.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
It's like why a wedding?

Speaker 4 (35:28):
ring exists.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
It's like a visual.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Exactly, it's a physical thing you wear to
remind you of the contract.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
Well, the book of Ruth, and to kind of give a
context for that, the whole ideasurrounds this Hebrew concept
of the kinsman redeemer.
So if a woman was married, herhusband dies, they have no
children to take care of them.
What would happen is that therehad to be a kinsman redeemer,
that your next of kin, whoever'sthe next closest to her husband

(35:58):
would then take her on as awife to take care of her right.
So if he had a brother who wasunmarried, guess what?
Your wife was just chosen foryou.
You were bound by law to dothis right and he would be her
kinsman redeemer.
If he doesn't exist, go to thefather.
If the father's dead right, youjust keep kind of going down

(36:20):
the line right.
So the context of the book ofRuth is Ruth, who was a Moabite
who had married a Jewish man,her husband who had died, and
then Naomi, her husband's motherher husband also died and also
that was her only son.
So you end up having the storyof Naomi and Ruth, both widows

(36:42):
right Looking for this kinsmanredeemer.
Naomi kind of constructs thisthing with Boaz.
She's like that's your kinsmanredeemer right, Did we do an
episode?

Speaker 1 (36:51):
We did an episode on her right On their.
We've talked about it before.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
I'm not sure, I don't know if we did an episode, I
don't know if we've actuallydone a whole episode on her.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
That is one of those fascinating studies.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
I think we've done with Ruth at some point.
We could do Ruth at some point.
Yeah, Ruth is an interestingone.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Ruth is an interesting relationship that
she had.
That was really, really solid,because there's some interesting
things in there.
I would love to do that againsoon.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
But one of the things , though, she mentions she goes
to Boaz and she says now may theLord repay you for what you
have done, because he showed hergreat kindness.
He'd better be in the fieldsand cause she was a widow and a
whore.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Just gather her from behind, and he told his servants
to just leave.
More so it's a ticket to thebaker.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
She comes in first, tells them this is in chapter
two.
May the Lord repay you for whatyou have done and a full reward
be given to you by the Lord,the God of Israel.
Now, remember she's a Moabite,right Under whose wings you have
come to take refuge.
In other words, that there'sthis assumption in that thought
that Boaz says I don't know whatto do.

(37:48):
So he went to prayer and underprayer he took refuge and prayer
to figure out like, how did,like, what should I do in this
situation?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
How should I take?

Speaker 4 (37:57):
care of this and it turned into grace for her right.
But then later, when it comesto I guess what you would call
the I don't know Ruth's marriageproposal to Boaz, what she says
is she crawls up while he'ssleeping in his bed and stands
at the foot of.
There's this whole little thingwith this that this would have

(38:19):
to be its own episode.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
This was saying like Ruth is really good, but this is
what he says.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
He said who are you?

Speaker 1 (38:23):
This is good drama.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
And she answered I am Ruth, your servant.
Spread your wings over yourservant, for you are a redeemer.
Now there's certain like thatseems very odd, right?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Double entendre.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Yeah, there's some things, but the primary point,
though, is that in marriage, aJewish marriage, when you're
getting brought together in thebetrothal ceremony, the man
would take his prayer shawl andhe would cover both him and his
bride under the wings.
So what she's essentiallysaying that's cute.
Now you do that.

(38:58):
Now you come, take me and bringme under your wing.
What she's really saying ismarry me.
You're my kinsman, redeemer,right, come marry me, but all
right, that's like an implicitthing that we miss.
We're like what is she doing?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Wow, but there's what she said, and there's what she
said.
But the point is, is that, likewith the root, I love?

Speaker 4 (39:15):
that that's so cute, kinsman.
Redeemer with an exodus.
It was associated to God'sdeliverance out of Egypt and
redeeming them out of Egypt,right?
So one, the towel as a whole,particularly the canops, though
was always representative ofredemption and deliverance.
Okay, the second thing it waswas also a covering right.

(39:37):
So I already mentioned youwould put that over your head to
pray.
That was your covering.
Well, this whole idea of beingcovered, it was that because of
sin, we had to be covered inorder to approach God.
Yeah, okay.
Now the very, I guess you couldsay, first mention of of being

(40:00):
covered would be all the wayback with Adam and Eve.
They sin.
This is that they're naked andthen God gives them some clothes
right.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
It says clothes Slays , the beast covers them with its
skin.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
It's a covering.
He's providing them a coveringfor their sin.
Part of that thought is that hegave them a prayer shawl, like
because they're getting kickedout of the presence of God, but
I'm going to still cover you.
You need this covering becauseof your sin.
Ie prayer shawl, like you'restill going to be able to come
to me in prayer, but you so thisprayer shawl represents like it

(40:36):
just goes all the way back tothat promise, right?
there's this constant continuityof this thought that continues
throughout Ezekiel 16,.
It says God speaks to Jerusalem.
It says I spread my wings or Icanop over you and cover your
nakedness.
Moses is, quote unquoteconnoffed, right Covered, as God

(40:58):
passes by him on Mount Sinaiand receives the law.
That's in Exodus 33.
So it says that I can't look atyou or I'll die.
So he's, you know he's closeshis eyes as the presence of God
comes.
And it says that as he, God,passes, he connoffed him, he
covered him, right In terms ofthat protection.
So, over and over, like you seethis garb, in terms of Jewish

(41:21):
thought, be one of deliverance,redemption, but also a covering,
okay.
The next thing it also showedwas that the law is complete and
we're bound to it.
We already talked about thetassels right, but there's also
this very interesting thing.
Remember what it was called Aseat seat right.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
How would it attach to the garment itself.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
The towel.
It is what they called.
It was a seat seat.
But this whole this thing goesinto this Hebrew concept of
gamatria, which is numericalassociation with substance,
because in Hebrew there's not anumerical system like oh, there
is a numerical system, there isnot a specific language for

(42:01):
numbers.
It was associated to letters,so, like for us in the alphabet
right, a, b, c, D, e or A wouldbe representative of one, b
would be representative ofnumerically two.
So if I'm trying to give you anumber, right, Like how old are
you right?
Well, I'm 29.
You would essentially say youare what's the ninth letter of

(42:24):
the alphabet A, B, C, D, E, F, B, H, J, J.
So you would essentially say oh, b and J, yeah, right, that's
funny, I'm B and J right Likeyou're like, but you would know
oh 29, right so the whole ideaof gamatria.
But it gets a little deeperthan that because words that
have numerical value associatedto them.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
So you start getting this.
Is it Hebrew?
More like Chinese or Japanesewords, like the sounds, have a
definition, and then the wordshave a definition, and then
sentences have a definition.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
I don't know a whole lot about Chinese.
I couldn't really affirm ordeny that oh sorry, I guess
Japanese kanji.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Each part of the kanji is in and of itself a word
and then when you build thekanji with the different words
it makes a new word and you canput multiple kanji together to
make any word or sentence, sofor example every single word in
Hebrew is also a sentence.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
We need to do an episode someday at the very
first word of the Bible, becausethe sentence that that pushes
out in different variations andforms, even in the pictographs
of Pelele Hebrew, which isdifferent than the Ashry script
that they have now, tells thestory of salvation.
It's really cool, but like theword, like that in that

(43:45):
particular case, Bar-la-sheet,right in beginning, very first
word of the Bible.
Well, that starts with bet.
Well, bet, like the letter bet,is also a word, right.
So the letter bet means houseor dwelling, right.
So then you get into the aleph,which is always represented as

(44:09):
the almighty God himself.
So the dwelling God, right.
So you start putting theseideals together, even to a word.
But then there's numericalvalue to that as well, right.
So the numerical gamatria valueof ctc.
So ctc equals 600, exactly 600,okay In terms of its numerical

(44:31):
value.
But then it had eight strings,part of the tassel, and there
was five knots on each tassel,which equals 613.
Well, what's so important aboutthat 613, you had 613 laws of
Moses, oh wow, so the law had613, right.

(44:52):
So the whole idea that yourentire tallot with the kanaaf
and the tassel right.
In terms of thought, it equaled613, that meant completeness
right.
Not just that the law iscomplete, that we're bound to
that complete law right soredemption and deliverance
covering but then also acompleteness of the law that

(45:15):
we're bound to the law.
The next was piety.
We already talked about thePharisees right Matthew 23,.
Their long tassels demonstratehow religious and spiritual they
are.
So there was always thisassociation.
That came later.
That's not necessarily biblical, that is oral law tradition
that developed over time.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Like I said before, it's like these things just help
remind them of the law and Ijust like love that as a.
It's like saying everyone'srequired to wear.
It is it's kind of a problem,but the fact that it exists as a
means to help remember thethings that they were taught in
the school process that wetalked about last episode, it
just reinforces that culturalknowledge that you said that

(45:57):
everyone would have had, whichis why there is so much depth in
the New Testament.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Well, let me give you a couple other ones.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
People were just like when it came to the law, like
people.
Just they were able to askthese good questions because
everyone went through this inschool and they understood what
things symbolically meant ofwhat they're saying.
Jesus was able to have thesehigh level sermons like to talk
to 5,000 people and they have anunderstanding of what he's
saying because everyone had thisbase knowledge, whereas, like
you, could not give that a Jesuslevel sermon today to just like
average believers and have thembe able to get what people were

(46:23):
getting out of it back then.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Right, well, we certainly couldn't present it
the same way.
We have to give references withnotes and take this hey, write
these four things down, right,like I'm writing this reference
down, if you want to do sermonon the Mount.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
It's gonna be a year long series.
Just explain it to a new agebeliever.
It's real.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Bible stories, that's us right now.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
We're trying to like yeah, yeah, but back in those
days that rabbi, as he's walkingup to give that sermon, you
know would have extra longtassels because he's the rabbi.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Do you remember our first century church episode?
That first century churchepisode makes so much more sense
now because of that generalknowledge piece, like, of course
you could run a church likethat in the first century
because everyone in thecongregation had all of this
baseline knowledge so they couldcome up and read, they could
come up and give a teaching forthat week, they could do the.

(47:13):
They could get straight upcalled out and said, hey, I want
to hear from you, becauseeveryone was always meditating
on this, all the stuff that theymemorized and that they were
working through.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
And they all had this idea of being a rabbi.
And it's like a repetition ofeverybody at the same time,
verbally, just remembering goingthrough verbatim a book of the
Torah yeah, all right, we'regoing to go from a Deuteronomy
and everybody.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Wow, All right from the beginning right, and
everybody goes right, it goesstraight through.
It's like that is absolutelyman.
That episode now makes thisepisode make more sense and it
makes like a lot of our olderepisodes like this brings so
much context in.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Well, good, so there's more, because let me
give you a couple of otherthings that are represented.
One was also authority, right?
So we already kind of talkedabout how, even to Rome, wearing
the blue and the purple, right?
The reason, though, is that, ifyou were to even look at like
go back to, you know, exodus, wewere meant to be both priests

(48:14):
and kings, right, the whole ideathat you're going to be both,
you're going to be priestlyroyalty.
That was the promise given toIsrael.
That was also the promisethat's given to the church, that
you're going to be royalpriests, right, you're to be a
royal priesthood.
So there's a sense of identity,but it's also gives you a sense
of authority, right?
So, if you were to go to 1Samuel 15, there's a story where

(48:41):
Saul gets so angry at his highpriest, samuel, that it says and
this is verses of 26 through28,.
So, essentially, samuel speakssomething that the king, king
Saul, doesn't like.
So what Saul does is it saysthat he rips the tassels from

(49:02):
Samuel's canaphe his parishion.
He gets so angry that he takeshis tassels and rips them off
his canaphe.
Samuel then speaks and sayswell, saul, because you ripped
my canaphe, so God will rip yourkingdom away from you.
Because Saul has rejected God'scanaphe, god's authority.
I am his high priest.
I gave you a word.

(49:23):
You ripped his authority away,ie from his high priest, so
God's going to rip your kingdomaway.
Right, you fast forward.
1 Samuel 24, there's this wholedrama where Saul's trying to
kill David because now he knowsDavid is really there to replace
him.
So David's on the run.

(49:43):
He goes to the Negev Desert.
He's in a cave where and Ialways kind of thought this was
interesting that Saul knewexactly where in this big desert
and what cave to go look at.
Until you go to the NegevDesert, you realize how hot and
barren it is and then yourealize the cave that David's in
.
There's this massive plushwaterfall spring.

(50:04):
That's coming down so you hadwater right, so Saul's like I
know where he went.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
There's only so many places you can survive for long
enough hours, and there's a lotof caves there, right.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
So it's not like I know he's in that cave because
there's a lot of caves, but heknew generally, like he went to
that waterfall spring becauseit's the only one out there.
So there's that whole drama,right.
And then this is in 1 Samuel 24, verse three through four.
It says that David, so Saul'slooking for him.
They can't find him.
Saul ends up going into the samecave that David's hiding in and

(50:35):
David's able to go, cut it sayshis khanaf, or the tassel's
office khanaf, right.
So, just as he had ripped thetassels off the khanaf of Samuel
, david comes then and cuts.
Because you always wonder, whydid David choose to do that?
It seems weird.

(50:55):
He chose not to kill Saul, buthe instead chooses to cut the
tassel off, right.
And Saul, coming out of thatand this is verse 20, recognizes
that because David was able todo that and stole his authority.
That's when he realizes David'sgonna become king.
Why?
Because that representedauthority, right.

(51:17):
So it wasn't just simplyredemption and deliverance and
the covering and piety and thecompleteness, all that we're
bound to, but with all thosethings together, what it
comprised of was an authorityand that had been now robbed
from Saul by King doing that orby David doing that does that
make sense?
Yeah, you also see in 2 Kings,chapter two, Elijah left his

(51:43):
rolled up it says in terms ofclothing and the text, his
mantle or his toilet with Elisha.
So when Elisha is called upessentially in his chariot to
heaven, right, he leaves Elishaback, but what he leaves with
Elisha is his toilet his mantle,he's able to.

(52:05):
Then Elisha uses Elijah's toiletrolled up and is able to split
the Jordan and do all thesemiracles with it.
So, again speaking to the sameauthority, but to put it just
very simply, right the toilet orthe seat seat, it represented
the extension of oneself, it wasan extension of you to include

(52:30):
your power, your authority, allthose things.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
It's kind of like the crown for the monarchy.
It's like every monarch hastheir crown and they don it when
they're about to do a specificact as the king or queen.
That's when they'll place acrown on their head.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
I mean I can see why the bleeding woman just having
the faith of I just need totouch his garment would heal me.
That makes more sense if it hadsuch a representation.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, throughout the history of their faith it wasn't
just like a blind faith, it wasjust Jesus.
It was a informed faith basedoff of everything from the Old
Testament that she would havealso been aware of or learned.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
And what's cool is.
So this is Psalm 57, it makeseverything make more sense and
now read Psalm 57, because itsays now to the choir master
according to the, do not destroya mictum of David when he fled
from Saul in the cave.
So we just talked about thatstory.
When he cuts right when he fledfrom Saul in the cave.
This is what David wrote whilehe was in the cave.

(53:40):
Be merciful to me, oh God.
Be merciful to me, for in youmy soul takes refuge, in the
shadow of your wings, in theshadow of your canaphe.
I take refuge till the stormsof destruction pass by.
Then Saul comes in the cave.
That's so great.
That's when David right.

(54:00):
So he pens this.
When Saul's looking for him andhe's hiding in that cave.
Saul comes in that cave andthen David in prayer I take
refuge.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
And then he took from right cutting off the towel
from his canaphe.
His covering took thatauthority.
So you see this strongconnection to Psalm 57 and the
canaphe to the cave in 1 Samuel.
You see that kind of how, thatcontinuity, goes together
Absolutely lovely but that goesinto the next one.
Right, it was a refuge.

(54:30):
We just read that from Psalm 51.
Psalm 178 says keep me as theapple of your eye, hide me in
the shadow of your wings rightand your kinoff, and prayer.
He's talking, prayer I never.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
I never thought about the shadow of the wings piece.
I didn't understand exactly themeant, but hearing it now it is
.
It's really sounds like theshadow of your authorities.
Like I take refuge in theshadow shadow of your authority.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
It's saying I remember, I take, and it's a
prayer, I take refuge in thefact that you are sovereign,
yeah, but you reign.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
you're sovereign over this situation, right, but
physically, under your kinoff,under your it's not like oh,
under your wings, likemetaphorically, it's like
physically, I'm gonna, I'm goingunder this shawl to pray to you
and that, that's that's yourtake, refuge and shelter, that's
like your quiet room for it,for them right but to them like
you're in the presence of Godwhen you when you cover yourself

(55:21):
cover

Speaker 4 (55:21):
yourself and approach him, and then that was the
appropriate way to approach God,right?
What's also interesting, wetalked about the bleeding woman,
how she wanted to touch this isTallot and the kinoff.
She wasn't the only one.
You also get out of mark 6 Sayswherever he came in villages,
cities or countryside, they laidthe sick in the marketplace and
implored him that they maytouch.

(55:42):
Even the fringe of his garmentis His kinoff his tall it yeah,
and as many as touch it weremade well.
So it wasn't just the bleedingwoman who was touching to
receive that healing.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Everybody was touching it right to receive
that healing so I remember andthis is just how the chosen
depicted it.
But there is they.
There was one of the episodestalks about when Jesus is out
preaching and teaching and heheals someone, and so they start
bringing all this I don'tremember where in the New
Testament talks about, but it'slike and they brought all of

(56:14):
their sick and all of theirDying and and he healed them all
.
It's like in the in the episodethey really depict how
Exhausting that was, just alljust being out there all day as
people are just bringing theirsick and bringing their dying
and their and on, and he'shealing every single one of them
.
So it wasn't just the one offlike he was doing.

(56:36):
This.
I think at the end is at theend of mark, where it says and
he did many other things.
But these are included here sothat you may believe.
You know, and it's it's justone of those things that the
chosen depicts.
That really like me.
It was really shocking for meto see it.
It's like it.
Yeah, it wasn't just one ofthose, those hundreds, maybe
thousands of people that werecoming, maybe in just a day
being healed by Jesus.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Yeah, yeah, so like and that's kind of my point
right is like the clothing was abig deal to them.
Yeah, right, and there's a lotof religious ideas.
So now let's go back to thetarget text.
Right, so they show up.
They see the Undergarment,right, the halluc, it says,
laying there.
But then it says, like for theESV version at least, it says

(57:22):
that they saw the face clothwhich had been on Jesus head,
not lying with the linen clothes, but folded up in a place by
itself.
Okay, so they're separated, butthe one that's folded and shown
is the quote unquote face cloth.
Okay, so what was the facecloth?
It's very simple, right nowthat you know all that, right
there was the inner garment, thehalluc.

(57:44):
Then you had the other toilet,the outer garment, right, when
you died, they would place yourprayer shawl, right, your your
tablet, over your face to showthat even in death, you are
covered.
Even in death, I am still boundand remaining committed to the
law.
Okay, now, that's one piece,right?

(58:07):
So understanding that Jesuswould have had his own prayer
shawl over his face.
Okay, then there's this otherelement of it.
Okay, and this is true of allJewish men, but there was
certain, even rituals with arabbi when they came to your
prayer shawl Right, because,remember, this is an extension
of yourself, it's representativeof deliverance and redemption

(58:29):
being covered.
Like it's a big deal, do youjust willy-nilly, just kind of
like I don't know how you guysare, when you like, when you get
home from working, I'm takingCammies off, right?
Yeah just come throw it on thefloor right.
That's not kind of reverencethat we would have for their
prayer shawl.
Mm-hmm, you're taking that off,but you're folding it a certain
way.
You're folding.

(58:49):
It's like folding the Americanflag in a sense.
Absolutely.
But then you would bind it withyour tassels, it would be
folded and bound a certain way.
You would place it in a placeby itself.
You give it reverence andrespect.
That's your prayer shawl, it'san extension of you and what
you're bound to, right?
Yeah, so now you understand.
When they go in and they seehis Hulu kind of out there where

(59:13):
it was, but then they look overand they see his prayer shawl
Folded, probably a veryrabbinical way, bounded by the
tassels, in a place by itself,they're like this is different.
Yeah, right, because if thiswas a grave robber, they
probably would have taken thatand sold it.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
But they said well, and or if they left it.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
Right, but even if you left it like you were, you
gonna give that kind ofreverence to the deceased man's
prayer shawl, when you'realready taking the deceased man
Right, but you're alreadyshowing an irreverence and
disrespect against the law.
Like you, obviously don't careabout it.
Mm-hmm.
Why would you take so much careof the prayer shawl?
And wouldn't it be like tabooto touch it, that it was so

(59:55):
would you, who would appreciateit, maybe like no, no, no, we
didn't a robber, we moved onwith respect, right, but but
then why wouldn't you take theprayer shawl with them to cover
them?
In the new place, they also hadguards there so this is going
to a different argument.
Right, so it's saying, like,does this kind of take?
So okay, probably wasn't graverobbers.
But then if this was somebodywho had respect and moved his
body in that time, who wouldhave been unclean themselves but

(01:00:18):
trying to render them properJewish rights, it wouldn't be
folded up in the corner becausethey would have used that to
cover his face.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Yeah right, taking it with him to the next.
Exactly.
They would have taken it withthem If it's somebody who had
you know, again, no regard forhim at all.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Why would they have regard of his prayer shawl,
which is an extension of him?
Mm-hmm, you see what I'm saying?
The Romans would have done thatright.
And if you have so muchdisrespect for somebody to do
this to him and his death has aJew Like, then why are you gonna
have so much reverence for theshow, right?
So these kind of elements iswhat one, I think, tipped off,

(01:00:57):
you know, the beloved discipleto look at and they're like a
this ain't right.
Right because they took hisbody like.
None of this makes sense.
The fact that it's folded thatway Jesus is probably own way of
doing it right Says somethingin itself, which is the most
primary message Christ has risen, right.

(01:01:18):
But then there's also theseother messages now communicated.
Now, if Christ is risen, okay,why didn't he take his prayer
shawl with them?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, that's, I actually haven't.
Let me know if I'm right,because I'm just tying it back
to some of our earlier episodes,particularly with the fruit of
the spirit, one we talked about.
Are we bound by the law, seeingthat the tacit, or the tacit,
the one that had the blue, wassurrounded by the white, which
represented your?

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
seat seat with a lot.
The seat seat asshole.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Yep, the tassel representing your entanglement
with the law, him Taking thatwrapping it up, leaving it shows
a respect for the law there,but also shows, as he leaves
without it, that he is no longerjust bound to the law or he's
not bound to the law at all.
He's now put on his full honorsas as God, and he's he's acting

(01:02:14):
in that capacity.
Now he's not acting thecapacity of a rabbi or as a
religious leader, he's acting inthe capacity of of Jesus Christ
, god on God on earth.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Now, that's that's kind of my yeah, so I think
you're certainly right, you'restarting to get it right.
This, this implicit message, ifyou remember everything that it
represented, the first beingredemption and Deliverance right
, but now it's left, right, it'sbeen left in the tomb, right.

(01:02:44):
So when Jesus raised from thedead, right, it's like, what did
he take with him?
Well, he took authority andpower.
He, he took vindication and allthese things with them.
Yeah, but what he left behindWas the symbol of Redemption and
salvation.
Yeah, right, if you, andremember, it was also tied to

(01:03:06):
the law, right, that was whatwas binding them.
You are bound to this.
We.
He left it back.
Now read Galatians 5 1, becausewe were just saying Galatians,
right, just to bring it back toforefront of your memory
Galatians 5 1, for it is freedom.
Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, therefore, and donot submit again to a yoke of

(01:03:28):
slavery.
What was slavery?
In the book of Galatians thelaw, the law.
Right.
So, in other words, him leavingthat behind, he says you are
now freed.
Yeah, right, you have beenredeemed.
You have been delivered fromthis?
Yeah, you've been freed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
It's like that final.
So it's like if you didn'tthink that his death was the
fulfillment, well, really, hisresurrection is a full
fulfillment of all the promises,and here is a clear indicator
that you said I'm all rightbecause, like he, he rolled it
up and he's demonstrating that Iam no longer.
Literally.
He had been wearing that Mostof his life and it represented

(01:04:08):
the authority had as a rabbi andthe honors he had as a rabbi
and as a teacher, but now he'splaced that down.
He said I have fulfilled this.
I've fulfilled all of thepromises.
I am now In my full authorityas God.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
Moving moving forward from this point and more so to
the people he left it behind.
For yeah, you are delivered youare redeemed right which also
goes into the second console wetalked about being covered, the
canoff right.
Romans 4, 7 through 8.
Blessed are those who, la lasteeds, are forgiven and whose
sins are now covered.
Blesses the man against whomthe Lord will not count as sin.

(01:04:43):
Now, right speaking of thegrace of Christ, crucifixion and
resurrection right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
It's no longer that you're like I'm covered by the
wings of the of the tablet.
Now it's you are covered by howwe describe it the blood of
Christ exactly, so I'm leavingbehind.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
You're not bound, you're freed from this now
anymore.
Now it's the blood and youdon't need this now to be
covered, because I am nowcovered, you, yeah.
In other words, what this usedto play as a covering for you, I
now play as a covering for you.
Yeah, you don't need thatanymore, you just need me.
Mm-hmm, does that make sense?
Yeah, so see how there's likethis.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
And also because now we exactly all this implicit
stuff, all this backstory thatnow We've gone through for the
last couple weeks and months, itwould have been immediately
obvious and clear to them.
Which is why the text says he'she saw and believed, because
that would have all registeredlike in that moment all at once,
and I can't even imagine likeI'm feeling it now, but like
imagine all that hitting like atruck, all it was just all like,
and you see it and you're like,oh, now I get it yeah, because

(01:05:45):
yeah, all this time.
Jesus said that he had to die.
He had to die and that he wouldcome, that he would be raised.
And it says in the text overand over again that the did I,
that the disciples heard but didnot understand, heard but did
not understand.
It says that over and over andover again.
And now we see here the one whohe loved, saw and believed and
and the same idea.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
Like you say in terms of fulfillment, you can almost
even say in terms of the lawthat you're bound to it, right,
yeah, so Like in Matthew 5,right, we were talking about how
Jesus says like I don't thinkthat I came to abolish it, I
came to fulfill it.
Yeah, right.
Then then you read things likePaul from 1st Corinthians 15, 56
the sting of death is sin.
Mm-hmm.

(01:06:24):
So why did Jesus die?
That's the sting.
It's sin.
I had to die for sin, and thepower of sin is what the law.
So, by him holding back thereminder of what you're bound to
, you're bound to the law, right, and the law that you're bound
to is the power of sin, and it'sbecause of sin that you have to

(01:06:46):
die.
I just resurrected from death.
I conquered death, which meansyou are no longer bound to the
power that sin has, which is thelaw.
You are now free, not bound bythe law, but you are now free In
Christ, because I am yourcovering now, yeah, and if you
see what I'm saying, and if thisis your first episode, you're
just tuning in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
You're like wait a minute, so I'm not bound by the
law anymore, so I can dowhatever I want.
Wait pause, go back to theGalatians series that is exactly
the argument that's being laidout there and enjoy that series
as as you go through andunderstand that, yes, you are
not bound by the law, but thereis an expectation placed on you,
called the fruit of the spirit.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
So the idea, though, being is that, if the power of
sin is the law, because it'ssaying this is what is right and
wrong, and if you don't do it,you send, and that condemns you.
Yeah right, like that's a verystressful place to be.
Now, when he says that you'reliving in the freedom is that
when you're pursuing and doingall that you can, full heartedly
pursuing after Christ andtrying to be pleasing to God,

(01:07:46):
and then those, those days orthose moments you fail.
He says you're no longer havingto be covered, but I cover you
in that.
That's when you rest in gracebecause you're not bound to that
anymore.
You're bound to me, right.
So you see how they're startingto be these now associations,
right?
That it's not, um, you know the, the idea of the Talbot being

(01:08:07):
the sign of deliverance.
It's like no, I'm yourredemption, I'm your deliverance
.
You needed that to cover you.
You don't need that to coveryou.
I cover you.
You, you were bound to the law.
You're not bound to the lawanymore.
You're bound to him and hekeeps going right, authority.
Um.

(01:08:27):
Later, john, right revelation,chapter 19, verse 16 um, let me
just kind of read it.
But it says when he returns, itsays on his robe, okay, and on
his thigh he has a name writtenKing of Kings, lord of Lords.
Now I just want you to kind ofnotice, because there's this
interesting thing with this okay, one.

(01:08:50):
Well, what robe is he talkingabout?
He's actually saying in histoilet, on his toilet and then
on his thigh.
Well, what's what would sit onyour thigh right, your tassel
right, the seat seat right, youwould rest down by your thigh
the name written King of Kings,lord of Lords.

(01:09:11):
So the thing that used toremind you, the symbol that
would remind Jews right, they'rebinding to the law is now
instead replaced.
Well, hangs, there is that heis Lord of Lords, he's that
fulfillment that we're bound to.
But then remember how the blueand the purple was integrated to

(01:09:32):
show royalty, king of Kings,right.
So now he's showing.
It's essentially a symbolic playof again, if I am not bound to
the law, but now I'm bound toChrist, if I'm not covered by my
toilet, I'm covered by Christ.
I'm not this thing thatrepresents deliverance.
I remember Christ has deliveredme.
Now, even down to the tasselitself, it's not the tassel

(01:09:57):
right that I'm bound to or whatthat represents, but it's Christ
who is King of Kings and Lordof Lords.
But the tassel represented Likeyou keep going down the list
right, royalty 1916, king ofKings, refuge, right, jesus says
we talked about this last week.
Come to me, who are all laborand heavy laden, I will give you
rest.
Take my yoke upon you, learnfrom me.

(01:10:18):
Right, this is a rabbinicalstatement, for I am gentle and
lowly in heart, and for you willfind rest, refuge for your
souls, for my yoke is easy andmy burden is light.
So, all through this, if youcould just maybe say it this way
right, the shawl, the corners,the tassels, all the piece of
the toilet were symbolic of thereal shawl.

(01:10:40):
Right, the real prayer shawl,the real toilet, the real tassel
, which is Christ.
So what Christ left behind?
He left behind it because itwas no longer necessary, because
he is that function for us.
Does that make sense?
So there's this.
It's not just clothes layingthere that are like oh, that's

(01:11:00):
interesting, like he's risen.
Right, he has risen.
But because he has risen, heleft behind the primary symbol
that represented everything thatthey were longing for.
We want deliverance, we wantredemption, we wanna be freed
from sin and being, we wanna becovered, we wanna be clean, we

(01:11:20):
wanna be all these things.
He left behind the very elementon their garb, on their
wardrobe, that all of them werewearing all the time, that
represented all those things.
Does that make sense?
Were the shawl represented orintended to point to Christ's
ultimately accomplished, and itwas finished, right.

(01:11:41):
So, as believers, we do notclothe ourselves with symbolic
tassels and toilets anymoreright, but we are clothed in the
salvation and the righteousnessof Christ, who is our real
toilet and tassel.
Isaiah 61-10.
Isaiah 61 is the passage Jesuswas reading out of when he was

(01:12:05):
in the synagogue in Nazareth.

(01:12:26):
He says, and he pauses, and hesays on this day, this has been
fulfilled.
He pauses before he continueson to the rest of Isaiah 61,
which reads this so you see whathe's saying.
He preaches about it in asynagogue.
He says on this day it's beenfulfilled.
But then you continue on to hisdeath, the rest of Isaiah 61 is

(01:12:46):
fulfilled.
I will greatly rejoice in theLord, my soul, my God, for who
has clothed me with the toiletof salvation.
He has covered me with thetoilet of righteousness as a
bridegroom again, who has righttheir toilet in the canaphe
would cover his bride, right,decks himself like a priest with

(01:13:08):
a beautiful headdress and, as abride, adorns herself with her
jewels.
In other words, then, layingthat back is saying I will be
with you.
In other words, then, layingthat back is saying Isaiah 61 is
now complete.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I love that so much and thank you so much, brian.
I just want to really help youall understand how deep this
episode really got, because ifyou're just tuning in this year,
first episode, one of yourfirst few episodes, this is
really how deep this really got.
So if you go back, we talkedabout episode 69 and 70, that

(01:13:46):
was our Galatians series wherewe talk about acts of the flesh
and the fruit of the spirit.
If you want to understand moreabout some of the points you're
bringing up there, the firstcentury church references that I
brought up that was when wetalked about women's role in
church in episode 61.
So you can get all that contextthere and how that feeds into
this episode.
When Ryan referenced theconversation between Jesus and

(01:14:08):
Pilate and that account that hewould have given to the Roman
leadership, that was back inepisode 41.
There was also a briefreference to the woman in the
well.
That was back in episode 34 and35.
And we brought up Jacob's faithjourney.
If you go back to our wrestlingwith the faith series, that's
episode 19 to 21.
So those three episodes aresome of my favorite episodes

(01:14:30):
that we've done.
And then our episode from lastweek, episode 79, what does it
mean to be called talks aboutthe entire education system that
I brought up a couple of timesthrough the episode.
That's where we talked aboutthat education system.
That really helps explain whatthe baseline knowledge was of
the Jewish people and why theNew Testament is written the way

(01:14:54):
that it is.
The testimony can be given theway that it is because there was
that shared knowledge acrossthe overall culture.
So if you have gone through andactually listened to all of
these episodes, I'm sure yourmind's exploding, like mine is
right now.
But if you're like, oh okay,this was pretty good, it's like,
go back and start hitting someof these episodes and some of
these mini-series that we did,because that is what, and then

(01:15:15):
come back and listen to thisepisode again and you'll really
understand the true depth in thecontext that is being brought
to bear in this episode.
So, ryan, in our two-yearanniversary episode, this is
exactly the type of episode thatwe needed to help people
understand, like the true depththat this podcast really brings,

(01:15:37):
and I really appreciate everytime we get to have these
conversations.

Speaker 4 (01:15:41):
Put a better way to end and back where it all
started the resurrection.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Absolutely, absolutely All right, and with
that man, I hope you all enjoyyour week and we will see you
next week.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
Thank you for tuning in to Real Bible Stories.
If you enjoyed this podcast, besure to leave a review, share
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Real Bible Stories is producedin partnership with Palm's
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If you would like moreinformation or want to check out
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(01:16:21):
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