Ep 86 Submit to Submission: A Real Discussion About Biblical Submission (Our First Video Episode!)

Episode Transcript
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Imran (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Real Bible Stories.
Join us as we deep dive intothe historic, religious,
cultural, political andemotional context surrounding
the real lives of real people inthe Bible and the stories we've
all grown to love.
Hello and welcome to Real BibleStories.
I'm your host, imran Ward, andwe are joined by my wife, selena

(00:28):
.
Hi and our teacher, Pastor RyanBrown.
What's going on everyone?
I'm sure that if you're tunedin here, you're noticing that
something's a little bitdifferent.
We are now doing this on video,All right, so really what's
happening is that by the way,Imran did not tell us we were
doing this on video so I mean weshowed up and he showed up
looking great.

(00:49):
The rest of us are uh, it's likehuh, I don't know, I basically
figured it out on the way over.
I was like, if I'm not, if Iwasn't gonna do it, now I'm not
gonna do it, so we're gonna tryit out.
So we are in the new uh palmsbaptist church studio that we've
been working on the last liketwo months in here, and so this
is now the first kind of largeformat broadcast that we're

(01:10):
doing inside of the room.
So we're just taking thepodcast and now you are now
seated in the room with us as weenjoy a real Bible stories
message from our pastor, pastorRyan Brown and our coffee, which
usually it's more bougie thanthis.
Yeah, so they got the cups andthe milk and all the things.

Ryan (01:31):
But I think you got to tell them what's going on.

Imran (01:34):
Well, why are we?

Ryan (01:35):
here, and why are we not?
Why are we not bougie today?

Imran (01:39):
So usually we're doing this recording in my house, but
what is going on now is thatwe're actually packing up our
house.
So if you've been listening to acouple episodes, you know that
I'm in the Marine Corps and so Iactually got orders over to
Quantico, Virginia, so I'll beheading out there in the next
month and a half to two months,so my wife's heading out,
Selena's heading out in the nextcouple weeks, and then I'll be

(02:01):
heading out a few weeks afterthat in the next couple of weeks
, and then I'll be heading out afew weeks after that.
So this episode we actually Iwanted to spruce it up and we're
actually sprucing it up becauseit's going to be our last one
for a while.
We're going to be pausing andreally praying a lot about what
this transition is looking likeand if we can really continue
the podcast in the way that wereally want to while we're in

(02:23):
Virginia and and Ryan's here.
I mean, God made a path for usto build this studio in our last
two months here.
So that's, uh, this like thisdidn't exist yeah.
We didn't have an option twomonths ago and now we have a
really, really nice place whereRyan can come in and teach from
um, even if we're doing it kindof disparate.
So just keep us in your prayersas we transition over to

(02:46):
Virginia.
Keep Ryan in your prayers as hecontinues to grow as a young
pastor and teaching the youth ofour church and also leading
this pastoral ministry as well.
That is Real Bible Stories.
I actually got such an awesomestory from him right before we
started where a truck driverthat goes to our church told him
that this podcast is what ledhim to, uh, become saved, that

(03:09):
the, the clarity and the detailthat came from the kind of the,
the in-depth studies that we doon the podcast, is what really
drew him um in to the familycompletely, and so I know that
this podcast is touching lives.
I know that it's um, I knowthat definitely for me, it's
grown my depth and myunderstanding.
It's really made it so that Godjust becomes more and more real

(03:32):
every time we do this and, ryan, I truly appreciate you for
that.

Ryan (03:36):
I appreciate you all and I'll tell you this Emran chose a
doozy of a week to record thisone of a week to record this one
, to make this kind of our lastone for break, because we're
going to hit probably one of themost seemingly offensive verses
.

Imran (03:50):
Controversial.

Ryan (03:51):
Yeah, in the Bible, but it's actually very beautiful
once you understand it.
So don't listen to it and thenjust click off because it makes
you so angry Stick with it, ohmy gosh yeah.
But the reason I chose thiscause I didn't know this was
going to be our last one for awhile Um, it's cause.
This is actually when we firststarted this when we first met
yeah, not even started this whenwe first met.

(04:13):
My introduction to Emron andSelena was like hey, uh, our
marriage is in shambles.
Like can you save us and I'mlike I can't save you to
anything, right.

Imran (04:20):
Like um you, you know only god can do that.
I was told to come talk to you.

Ryan (04:24):
Yeah, and he's like well, I was told you're the guy and I
was like, okay, well, you knowwhat's going on and and some of
the initial I get, and I'm justnot counseling but like
discussions, yeah, discussionsthat we were having just about
what was going on and I hadbrought up this study, um,
because it was one that wassomewhat recent at that time,
and um, they've been asking todo this since we began the

(04:45):
podcast and we've never done it.

Selena (04:47):
And this was almost two and a half years ago.

Imran (04:49):
This was so.
I was like you know.
It's also like one of the mostpopular studies you've done at
the church.
It's like the women's ministrytalked about it.

Ryan (04:55):
It is.
It is one, yeah, it is one,that is.
It is one people haveremembered, that is true, and
but one.
I did this for them because wecan't go on break and with the
uncertainty of the future andwhat that's going to look like
and not actually have done it.
But to your point, right, withthis study, you know what?

(05:17):
Before I even get into thatstory, I think we should read it
first, just so people know whatwe're talking about.

Imran (05:23):
Okay, yeah, absolutely.

Ryan (05:25):
We're going to be dancing around this, but we're going to
anchor here because this is oneof those, like I said, it gets
everybody's feathers a littleruffled.

Selena (05:35):
So get ready, go for it, selena All right, yeah, so our
verse is 1 Peter 3, verses 1through 7.
Oh, this is.

Imran (05:44):
Peter Peter 3, verses 1 through 7.

Selena (05:45):
Wives in the same way.
Submit yourselves to your ownhusbands so that, if any of them
do not believe the word, theymay be won over without words by
the behavior of their wiveswhen they see the purity and
reverence of your lives.
Your beauty should not comefrom outward adornment, such as
elaborate hairstyles and thewearing of gold jewelry or fine

(06:07):
clothes.
Rather, it should be that ofyour inner self, the unfading
beauty of a gentle and quietspirit which is of great worth
in God's sight.
For this is the way the holywomen of the past who put their
hope in God used to adornthemselves.
Of the past, who put their hopein God used to adorn themselves

(06:28):
.
They submitted themselves totheir own husbands.
Like Sarah, who obeyed Abrahamand called him her Lord, you are
her daughters if you do what isright and do not give way to
fear Husbands.
In the same way, be considerateas you live with your wives and
treat them with respect, as theweaker partner and as heirs,
with you, of the gracious giftof life, so that nothing will

(06:50):
hinder your prayers.

Imran (06:52):
And where is that from again?

Selena (06:54):
First Peter, chapter three, one through seven.

Imran (06:58):
One through seven.
Okay, thank you so much.
So, actually, before thepodcast started, brian told us
the scripture.
I didn't hear him say thescripture but I was reading the
scripture.
Yeah, she was reading it and Iwas like oh man, that sounds
like proverbs.

Selena (07:10):
31 and you got like three long answers, not proverbs
.

Imran (07:12):
31, I was like oh well, then it sounds like first
corinthians, because I just um afew few months ago now uh, I
was going through firstcorinthians, um, for my sister's
wedding.
I did a tribute.
What's it called?
A toast.
I did a toast and I quoted somescripture out of first
Corinthians, and Ryan's likenope, not there either.
And I was like is this, is thisPaul at all?

(07:35):
And he's like nope, not thateither.
I was like all right, well, Ihave no idea.
It's like I know these words,but I said.

Ryan (07:45):
It's one of those that if you do not understand what is
going on with that statement, itcould sound very abrasive,
right?
So, women be subject to yourhusbands right.
Call him Lord.
Men like, even when it goes tothe men, right.
Men likewise like beconsiderate of your wife or she
is the weaker partner.
Right.
Like it's even offensive.

(08:06):
What version of?

Imran (08:07):
this Bible is this it is NIM.

Ryan (08:10):
So we're going to break this down, because not only does
it one, is that not really thepoint being made?
It's actually teaching us to amuch higher ideal than a
Christian ideal that we don'ttalk about much, and when we do
talk about it, we talk about itlike almost in the confines of

(08:31):
only exclusively marriage and um, which is submission right.
And um, submission is a veryChristian concept.
It is to men, it is to women,it is to husbands, it is to
wives, it is, it is to everybody.
Um, this is not something justfor women and wives, right?
This is an expectation of everysingle believer who calls Jesus

(08:53):
Lord.
It's to submit Submission,right, about this particular
verse or this series of text.
Peter's actually not leadingthe reader to a point about
marriage.
Oh really, he's using marriageas an example for something else

(09:15):
.
So the whole point of the textisn't even actually meant to be
teaching you about marriage.
Now, it's exposing a truth or areality about it, but it it's
not like he's not teaching onmarriage at this point.
Does that make sense?
It actually belongs to a muchlarger main point and this is
like a substantiating point tothat higher message.

(09:36):
So I would also say thatsubmission in itself, it's not
as black and white as peoplelike to think.
It is Okay.
You know what I mean.
Like like this is one of thoseverses that unfortunately has
been abused um used to abuse andsuppress women for for um you

(10:02):
know, throughout history.

Imran (10:03):
Let me take it out of context.

Ryan (10:04):
Um, you know, you, you, let me take it out of context.
You know you take somethinglike this out of context and you
take only that, notunderstanding the larger reality
of what it belongs to.
It's used against women, andyou know.
If you know, it says right herein the Bible, right?
And if you are not equipped tounderstand what it's, what it's
really saying like you silence avoice right where if she's

(10:32):
trying to be faithful and Godhonoring as a woman and she may
be like that doesn't feel rightor doesn't seem to make sense.
But at the same time the Biblesays it and I know Christ is
real, but I struggle with that.
So I guess I'll you know.
Guess I'll do it.
I know Christ is real but Istruggle with that, so I guess
I'll you know, I guess I'll doit.
I don't know.
Yeah, um, so they end up tryingto live to a biblical principle
faithfully, in confusion, andthat can, but that can also

(10:58):
leave you open to exploit aswell.

Imran (11:00):
Correct, so even if you're not, even if you're not
living in a society that'sintentionally suppressing or
oppressing women or whomever.
If you're saying like, well, Imust submit because that's
Christ-like, but you're notdoing it with the right context
in mind, you can be openingyourself up to abuse and exploit
as well you know.

(11:20):
So that's speaking.

Ryan (11:21):
And it has.
It has been used for that Right, and the sad reality is and
we're going to talk about itmore in depth here in a second
but you know, the church overthe years hasn't done the best
job of really explaining what isa man and what is a woman.

Imran (11:39):
What is a man and what is a woman?

Ryan (11:41):
Right, you know, I think the church does well with
understanding the value thathuman beings were created as,
and I think it does a good jobof explaining identity and
purpose and all those thingscollectively.
But what are the differentialsthat separate men and women?
Because there are, they'reobvious, right?

(12:03):
And you look in culture rightnow of you know, everybody's
surprised by the fact thatthere's so much confusion around
gender identity in this cultureand and, and the truth is is
that I don't, I'm not sure a lotof people really understand, um
, you know, what a man and agodly man and a godly woman is

(12:25):
like.
What does that really mean?
And so when you misunderstandthat and you read a verse like
this, it opens the door for alot more other stuff that could
be thrown in there.
Some craziness, right?
Yeah.
And no, I was getting ready totell the story.
But, um, when I first taughtthis, we were all going through,
first Peter.
Um, I was the discipleshippastor at that time.

(12:46):
I was teaching the men onThursdays.
No, I'm sorry, I was teachingthe men Tuesdays.
The women were doing the sameBible study on Thursdays.

Imran (12:56):
So we were going through the same material and you were
teaching it as well.

Ryan (12:59):
No, oh okay, I was not, but we were doing the same
material.
So my idea for this particularnight is I had I said hey, as
we're talking through this verse, like I reached out to Trissa
Pittman who was on the podcastat one point and said, hey, can
you just grab you and just acouple other strong women and
join the men tonight, and I justI want you in there as we, as I

(13:21):
teach through this, so you canprovide a feminine perspective
of this verse, what these thingsand concepts mean, Because
people don't realize how vastlydifferent men and women are.
Like we are Like people knowwe're different.

Imran (13:32):
I think people realize it , but it's like for some reason
we in recent years have refusedto admit it, like most of all of
human history.
We understand that we'redifferent.

Ryan (13:43):
No people understand.
But I don't think peopleunderstand how different and a
lot of the thing with that is,because that's how God made us.
So it says that in Genesis 127,let us make them both male and
female in our image.
That means the image of men wasout of God's image and the
image of women are out of God'simage.
They took the femininequalities of God.

(14:04):
We took the masculine qualitiesof God.
We took the masculine qualitiesof God.
So one of the good thing is thatyou should actually recognize
the difference between men andwomen and, as a woman, you
should be looking at men andsaying what does understanding
men particularly if you'remarried, right, like my husband,
what is he communicating to meabout the character of God?
Because he was created in hisimage, so the things that are

(14:26):
central to his desires and hispurpose and what he needs, which
seems to be so much differentfor me, like what does that show
me about who God is?
And men likewise, we should belooking at women like well, as
women are like, created out ofhis character and his in his
image, and taking on thatquality.
What is what do they teach usabout God?

Imran (14:45):
Yeah, right.
So that's kind of fascinatingtoo, cause once when you put
those, if like with marriage,the concept of marriage, um, I
guess the closest to an image ofGod we would have would be the
man and the woman togetherThey'll be closer to the full
character and unity of the fullidentity and image of God.
Yeah, that's fascinatingidentity and image of God in
marriage.

Ryan (15:03):
Right and um, you know, women I think I was just
actually talking to my wifeabout this right before I came.
Um, there just seems to be thisthing, you know, with women,
where it's they either get intothis place of either they feel a
place of insufficiency that I'mnot enough, Like I'm not.
I'm not enough as a wife, I'mnot enough doing enough as a

(15:25):
mother, doing enough as adaughter or sister, or you know
whatever.
And if they're not feeling thesense of shame of not being good
enough, they're, on the otherend, being told you're too much
right, You're you're you're.
You're too sensitive, you'rebeing too dramatic, you're being
too emotional, you're right.
Particularly things.
Men tell them Right, andthey've then fully.

(15:48):
Then they're like okay, so nowI'm being too much, but if I'm
less of that, it's not who Ifeel like I need to be, but then
I'm insufficient.
There it's like where is thatsweet spot for women?
And men need that too, right.
The reason I'm kind of focusingon the women, though, is
because of this verse, right.
Right, the reason I'm kind offocusing on the women, though,
is because of this verse, right,and this is really kind of
where we're going to be anchoredto understanding this a little

(16:10):
bit more.
But my point was is that Ibrought in the women and to this
men's Bible study to get theirperspective, and it went really,
really great, like it wasawesome.
So Trista was like hey, can youdo the same thing for us
Thursday?
I was like you want me to bringsome men in?
She's like well, can you justteach it?
Like I think just you beingthere providing that perspective
would be enough.
I'm like, oh, that'd be great.
Yeah, awesome, right.

Imran (16:30):
Yeah.

Ryan (16:31):
Not thinking about the fact that I'm coming in to teach
on submission to your husband,and so I, man, walking in with
this group of women, I couldtell you what the looks.

(16:51):
I got the tension in there.
When we first started I waslike, oh boy, I was not prepared
for this and um, why didn't shewarn me?
Oh yeah, it was, it was, it waspalpable, right.
And it turned out fine.
It's a texture in the air, yeah.
It turned out fine, but it butinitially right, like there's
cause.
It's one of those verses.
So as we get into this, let mejust kind of, I think, crush a
couple myths about submission asa whole.
Okay, cause, like I said, it'sa larger Christian concept,

(17:13):
right?
I think some people believethat submission in itself is
like almost like it shows thatyou're weak, that you're weaker.
So if you're to be an alpha manright, an alpha male to submit
means I have to go be a beta.
Yeah, I think that's definitelya big cultural thing, it is.

Imran (17:35):
Yeah, as one that interacts with hundreds and
hundreds of 18-year-olds everyday Marines right.
Young Marines of our nation'sfighting core.
Uh, it is so important to themto be seen as strong at the
expense of reason, at theexpense of uh intelligence, at

(17:56):
the expense of slowing down andmaking clear and concise
decisions.
Uh, they're more focused onbeing cool or being out and
above than doing something thatmakes sense.
You know, it's like if this guycan jump here, I'm gonna try
and jump up here.
Oh, and I'm gonna try and jumpup here.
Oh, I broke my ankle, you know,but I was cool when I did it.

(18:17):
You know, it's like thatthere's, and I guess I was there
too, yeah, that's definitely mewell it's like, yeah, that was
you in high school For somereason.

Ryan (18:27):
I married you.
But you also see, though, likeyou know, in particularly and I
see this with women too, womenbicker probably more than men do
to be.
I mean, would you disagree withthat?

Imran (18:36):
I mean, I tend to see How's Christ Women's Fellowship
with the bickering?

Ryan (18:40):
Right, there is a lot of drama.

Imran (18:42):
I'm just saying she's like I'm not about to confess
anything.
I know you don't want to.

Ryan (18:48):
I'm not going to confess anything.
Generally there's more dramawithin those circles.
But I will say this when I seeit with men right is that when
you see those, you got two menwho are their egos are matched
and where one of them just needsto submit Right, and there's
generally always some sort ofconstruct or like there there's

(19:10):
a boundary to understand.
Now, like, as a man, I need tosubmit to this other man in this
issue, in this situation.

Imran (19:17):
And you know, there's like an established chain of
command or something rules orlike rules of manhood Right,
like, we just understand or like.

Ryan (19:24):
but I mean even beyond that like rules of manhood right
, like we just understand orlike.
But I mean even beyond thatlike.
And part of what we're going totalk about tonight is like a
hierarchy of look, if you're inchurch and you're in it with
your against your pastor right,there comes a point where you
just you have to submit to yourpastor.
You're told to do that right.
Marriage there comes a pointwhere you have to submit to your
wife, you have to submit toyour husband, like, there's just
certain you know, boundariesthat are set with that.

(19:46):
And what you see is when menfeel like, particularly men to
man to man, or woman to woman,it's like, well, if I, if I
submit, then I'm going to beseen as the weaker the beta.
Right, and that's not true.
A submission takes strength.
Sometimes it takes morestrength than it is to continue
going Right.
The other thing I would say toois.

Imran (20:05):
I think that to submit is different than to be kind of
broken into that submission, solike if you were like I'm not
going to submit, I'm not goingto sit, and then you get broken
into that and now you are forcedto submit, then I can, I guess
could be seen as weak.

Ryan (20:31):
But if you submit out of strength of understanding, like
it is not my place to be, thatright now, well, forced
submission is forced submissionis slavery, ooh, right.
So being forced to submit tosomething, that that's, that's
tyranny, that that is not,particularly as we're speaking
to scripture right Is?
That's not the freedom that wehave in Christ.
You know God's not a tyrant.
So forced submission, you knowthat's not the kind of
submission we're talking about,right, and I think that's a good

(20:52):
that you brought that up,because that's different Right.

Selena (20:55):
So to submit?
Is you choose to submityourself?

Ryan (20:59):
Right, yeah, it is a choice and I think, like another
piece of this, it also doesn'tnecessarily mean like obedience
in the sense of like, like,sometimes submission can be
accepting the reality of asituation of a structure of
things, particularly powers andthings of that sort, outside of
your control.

(21:19):
Yeah, there's just certainthings you can't control, that's
true.
Right no-transcript.
Right and you just have tosubmit to that fact, Like I have
to submit to the fact that youknow our government, you know,
isn't always matching my ideals,yeah.

Imran (21:33):
It's human beings leading human beings.
It's imperfect people leadingimperfect people.

Ryan (21:36):
It's broken people leading a broken country and you have
to submit to that reality ifyou're going to be effective to
the purposes of God and hiskingdom right.

Imran (21:45):
And even just to bring that down, if in a marriage,
like fundamentally speaking it'sa broken man trying to lead in
a marriage, it's a broken womantrying to lead.
In a marriage it's a broken mantrying to submit, it's a broken
woman trying to submit, and sothat's never going to be done
perfectly either, and so youhave to submit to that reality

(22:07):
as well that your spouse isn'tperfect and they're not going to
be perfect.

Ryan (22:09):
If you want to be good at submission, you have to accept
the reality that the person youmarried, the person you work for
, your government you know whatI mean Whatever that is you have
to accept the fact that theyare broken people.
They're not perfect, so yourmarriage is not going to be
perfect.
They're not going to be exactlyhow you want them to be 100% of
the time.
Yeah.
Right Like, submission requiresthat.

(22:30):
And I would also say, I think,another thing people get
confused with this just becauseyou submit does not mean you
agree.
Submission does not meanagreement.
It actually assumes theopposite.
Right Like, I don't have tosubmit.
Like if I got home from worktoday and my wife was like hey,

(22:52):
I just bought you this three-daychartered fishing trip in San
Diego.
Wow.
Like, all right, honey, I'mgoing to submit to you in this.

Imran (22:58):
I'm going to go on my three-day chartered fishing trip
.

Ryan (23:01):
Submit to accepting this trip.
You know what I'm saying?
That's not submission.
You submit to this gift.
You submit to things youdisagree with.
So, submission actually assumesdisagreement.
So just be clear, right?
If a Christian principle issubmission, then that means that
there's going to be things as abeliever you disagree with that

(23:21):
you have to submit to.

Imran (23:23):
I mean Jesus literally says you have to pick up your
cross each day and die toyourself daily you know, it's
like, which assumes that yourflesh wants something.
You want something, but youhave to be willing to submit
yourself to the things of God.
And so if you're willing toassume, if you're you know of
the kingdom and you're saved,then you're willing to work on

(23:45):
submitting yourself to Christ.
Why not also work on submittingyourself to this life partner
that you know?

Ryan (23:50):
Christ has blessed you with.
This is what we're going totalk about, right, because?
So submission as a whole, right, like I think some people think
that if I submit them, that'sthat's a admission that I am
wrong.
Right, like, if you and me arein a disagreement and I'm like,
all right, I'm just going tosubmit to Emran in this, that,

(24:11):
like, that's just a confirmationthat, all right, emran, you
were right, I was wrong.
Right, that's not true.
Um, what biblical submissionlooks like is saying I don't
agree with you in this, but Iwill submit to it, like with you
, knowing the fact that Idisagree with it, but I'm going
to submit to you.
Just, please be considerate ofme, which is what it's talking
about here in terms of marriage.
Um, be considerate of myperspective of this right as I

(24:34):
go into the submission.
But then not bringing it upafter submission is not saying,
all right, I'm like,particularly in marriage, right,
I'm not.
Submission is not.
I'm going to submit to you inthis decision.
Then you make that decision andthen, months later, you bring
up the fact that you made thispoor decision.
I didn't want to even do this,I didn't want to, and you bring
up that fight again, or thatargument or that debate again.

(24:54):
It's like that's not submissioneither.
Right, like some, but that'sjust you tabling the argument
right.
That's not real submissioneither.

Imran (25:02):
that's true and then but I mean the reverse of that too
if, um, if that submission doestake place, it would be
tyrannical for the, the, theother party, to see themselves
as the victor and to lord overand it's like I knew I was right
.

Ryan (25:15):
You know, that's not what it means.
You know, then, them submittingto you doesn't mean that you're
right.
Them submitting to you doesn'tmean that they also think you're
right.
Right, and I think people Ithink particularly like married
people need to have thisconversation to understand this
right.
Like if selena submits to you,that does not mean selena agrees
with you or you've changed hermind yeah where she now.

(25:37):
She thinks you're right, right,it's understanding that and
almost in the essence of that,that should turn your heart.
She's like man, like I know shedoesn't agree with me and she's
submitting to me like that.
That should almost soften you abit, to be like hey, okay, hold
on, let's talk about this alittle more than yeah, and what
I mean, what that can lead to ifyou're doing that well is

(25:57):
effective compromise, you know.

Imran (26:00):
so it's like, okay, let's continue to work through this.
Yes, there's going to be somethings where it's black or white
.
We have to make a decision, butthe vast majority of things,
there's a compromise theresomewhere, as long as you're
willing to be open and honestand have that conversation.
But just a lot of people don't.
They stick on their side andit's like it's my way or the
highway.
But that's not effectivecommunication, that's not

(26:20):
effective compromise.
That's not submissioncommunication.
That's not effective compromise.

Selena (26:25):
That's not submission, that's not building the marriage
.
You know, right, yeah, andsubmission feels like a
sacrifice because you trulythink you're right.
So it was like party A thinksthey're right, party B thinks
they're right.

Ryan (26:36):
And yeah, the disagreement , right, um, it assumes
disagreement.
Like you can't, you just don'tsubmit to things you agree with.
You know what I mean?
Like so, you just have them Ialso think that that's very
telling, the fact that how oftensubmission is mentioned and is
told of our expectation to it.
Um, that we don't follow somefairytale Bible.

(26:59):
It's a very practical, realBible.
It's very real about the factthat you're going to have
disputes.
You're going to havedisagreements among believers,
within the church, in yourmarriage, at your workplace,
with your kids, right, likeyou're going to have
disagreements.
You need to be good atsubmission if you want to have a
sustained witness to the world.

(27:23):
The last thing I would also sayis submission is not cowardice
either.
Um, kind of like it assumesdisagreement.
It also submission assumesstrength.
It is.
It is not like it.
You could say in terms of, likeproper English, if you get

(27:45):
really angry at me, to where youlike, buck up and you're like,
hey, if we don't come to termssoon, we're going to fight.
Yeah, and I get really scaredbecause you're big and you go to
the gym and I'm like, okay,okay, okay, that's not really me
submitting, that's just mebeing afraid.

Imran (28:00):
It's just conceding, you're just conceding that fight
.
Conceding.

Ryan (28:03):
Right, Um so.
But real submission looks likeis you buck up and I'm like,
well, I could buck up too, Right, and I could, I could throw a
punch, or you know, we could dothis.
You know what I mean, but thenchoosing not to right, it takes
strength.
It is meek meekness you have.
You cannot be meek if you'reweak, nor can you be submissive

(28:26):
if you're not meek Right.
So submission requires strengthfrom from both people.
Yeah.
A weak person has a really hardtime submitting because they're
just not in control of theiremotions, right.
And they're just following their, following their emotions
wherever it takes them.
Yeah, following their emotionswherever it takes them into,
whatever decision, whateverwords, whatever actions they

(28:47):
want to do to, you know, improvethemselves, right?
Submission requiresself-control.
Submission requires strength.
Submission requires, like allthe fruit of the spirit, to do
that consistently well.
That doesn't mean somethinglike I'm married.
I live in reality, right, likeme and my wife.
There are times where our worstfights is when one of the two

(29:08):
of us it's like that perfectstorm where we're both exhausted
, where we're tired, and thenmaybe something else happened
that we're just alreadyemotionally charged and it takes
a while for us both to come tosubmission to one another.
And how that often leads issometimes a really bad argument

(29:28):
that the next day we'reembarrassed.
By then we both come mutuallysubmissive to each other.
It's like man, if we would havejust started that way, none of
this would have happened.
Yeah, right.
So, like it's, a lack ofsubmission is often driven out
of pride, right, it requireshumility to be submissive as
well.

Imran (29:47):
Oh, absolutely so all those it's like the opposite of
pride would be humility, Rightand you need humility to be
submissive.

Ryan (29:55):
So that's my point it takes a holistic Christian life
to go to this Christian ideal ofsubmission.

Selena (30:06):
I brought it up, I think , a couple of episodes ago, when
we first had our marriagecounseling and his pastor
brought up Ephesians, which iskind of similar to the submit
yourselves.
I did not take that very well,even though I grew up Christian,
but it rode me the wrong way.

Ryan (30:24):
We're going to talk about that verse in Ephesians as well.

Imran (30:29):
Yeah, I think it's worth the question and we can.

Ryan (30:31):
We can hold it for later, cause it will come up.

Imran (30:35):
Seven years later into marriage.

Ryan (30:37):
But what I want to do is kind of now paint.
I guess this is more of the keyto this verse is more literary
than it is cultural.
I mean there's some culturalthings loaded behind this, but
we've talked about this before,right, where often when we read
our Bibles we read it veryWestern.
So chapter three, we thinkimmediately, new thought, right.

(31:02):
So when chapter three startsoff with this verse, right,
wives, submit to your husband,we naturally go.
You assume that that's where itstarted.
Okay.
So the main point, like we'reon a new thought, a new point,
and this new thought a new pointis Peter teaching?
about marriage right, but, aswe've talked about previous
episodes, right, that's not thecase.

(31:22):
These chapters and verses donot exist until previous
episodes.
Right, that's not the case.
These chapters and verses donot exist until medieval.
Europe right by a French monkwhen he decided to do this, you
know, based off his personalopinion.
So this was all writtentogether, right?
This was all clumped togetheras a free flow of thought.

Imran (31:38):
Was this a letter as well ?
Was Peter first Peter a letter?

Ryan (31:40):
This was a letter, yeah, To which 1 Peter a letter.
This was a letter.
Yeah, to which church?
So with that, I want you toback up to chapter 2, verse 13,
because this whole text operatesunder the umbrella.
It is a child of this largerparent verse of what, the main
point of what's actually beingdiscussed when he says this.

(32:03):
Okay, so I'm going to read this.
This is uh.
First Peter, chapter two, verse13.
I'm going to read through 17.
Okay, so this is.
I just want to say this is theprimary point.
Okay, this is, this is theideal, this is what Peter is
teaching on, this is what he'strying to communicate to his

(32:23):
audience.
This is it.
This is what the point theyneeded to walk away with.

Imran (32:29):
Okay, and so this is 13 through 17.
Yep, all right.
Submit yourselves, for theLord's sake, to every human
authority, whether to theemperor as a supreme authority,
or to governors who are sent byhim to punish those who do wrong
and to commend those who doright.
For it is God's will that, bydoing good, you should silence

(32:50):
the ignorant talk of foolishpeople.
Live as free people, but do notuse your freedom as a cover-up
for evil.
Live as God's slaves.
Show proper respect to everyone.
Love the family of believers.
Fear God, honor the emperor.

Ryan (33:08):
Now understand honor the emperor.
It's no different than it istoday.
That's no different than sayinghey, everybody, show proper
respect to everyone you meet.
That includes Democrats, thatincludes Republicans, that mega
Republicans, everybody right.

(33:29):
Show respect to everyone, lovethe church and the family of
believers.
Fear God and honor Joe Biden.
Oh my gosh, yeah, you know whatI'm saying Honor the emperor.
Now some listeners may be likewell, what's wrong with that?
And there's a whole notherpiece of listeners
are like see, that's a problem.
Right, here's the thing.
Wherever you land there, whatwas happening to these believers

(33:52):
by the emperor was they werebeing persecuted economically
pretty much everywhere Someremnants of the Roman Empire.
They were being persecutedphysically.
They were suffering, they werebeing thrown in prison.
There was a lot going on.
Right, it was a little bit.
It wasn't like across theentire empire.

(34:14):
It was different everywhere youwent, but to them they're like
they're under the kingship ofthe emperor.
And what does he tell them?
Honor the emperor.
This is coming from the samePeter, right?
If you remember um, who hehimself was thrown in prison um,
and was rescued um, like allthe way back in Jerusalem, right

(34:35):
?
Paul um, beaten, stoned, thrownin prison multiple times, who
was a Roman citizen, who hadincurred all that also under the
Roman emperor, Right, Like?
So the point is, is that, like,wherever you're at, I I highly
doubt that, as a Christian inAmerica under Joe Biden, you

(34:55):
have experienced any of thatbecause of your faith Right, you
may have gone to prison underJoe Biden, but it's not because
you were a Christian right.
It's probably because you didsomething bad Right Um under Joe
Biden.

Imran (35:04):
But it's not because you were a Christian, right, it's
probably because you didsomething bad, right.
Just for some reference to,because I was reading kind of
the opening in chapter one.
So just to reference, like whoPeter's speaking to?
Chapter one, verse one it saysto God's elect exiles, scattered
throughout the provinces ofPontus, galatia, cappadocia,
asia and Bithynia, who have beenchosen according to the

(35:27):
foreknowledge of God, the Father, through sanctifying work of
the Spirit, to be obedient toJesus Christ and sprinkled with
his blood.
So it's like he's speaking to apretty broad audience even here
.

Ryan (35:39):
All across multiple regions right.
But I think the primary pointis this right In verse 13,.
Right, this is what he'steaching on Submit yourselves
for the Lord's sake, okay.
Yeah.
Every one of us.
Um, for the Lord's sake, toevery human authority, whether
to the emperor as the Supremeauthority, or to governors or

(36:03):
those who are sent by him topunish those who do wrong and
commend those who do.
Right.
Now, listen, for it is God'swill that by doing good, you
should silence the ignorant talkof foolish people.
And I want you to see thatliterary structure there, okay,
because it really follows kindof these three things.

(36:23):
Okay, there is a submissiveproclamation Okay, submit to,
right, you need to submit to.
In this particular case, submityourselves, for the Lord's sake
, right.
Then the second thing is thatthere's some sort of human
authority identified, okay, toevery human authority, which is,

(36:43):
again, this is the overarchingpoint.
And then there's a mechanism bywhich is given of how you
silence the talk of ignorant andfoolish people, right, in this
particular case, it says bydoing good, okay.
So the whole point is submityourselves to Jesus to every

(37:04):
excuse me, submit yourselves,for the sake of Christ, to every
human authority, for it is byGod's will that by you doing
good, you will silence ignoranttalk and the fools, right?
So then what he does is fromhere he gives a set of examples
of what that looks like.
Okay, so he's taken veryspecific situations to these

(37:26):
people of what was common thento give them examples of this is
what that kind of submissionlooks like.
The first one he into the firstexample are slaves submitting
to their masters.
So, verse 18 through 20, excuseme, slaves in reverent fear of
God.
Now notice how he ended right.
Show respect to everyone.
Love the family of believers.

(37:46):
Fear God.
Okay, so, slaves in reverentfear of God, submit yourselves
to your masters, not only tothose who are good and
considerate, but also those whoare harsh.
For it is commendable if someonebears up under the pain of
unjust suffering, because theyare conscious of God.
But how is it?
To your credit if you receive abeating for doing wrong and

(38:08):
endure it?
But if you suffer for doinggood, right, because how are we
supposed to sound ignorant talkby doing good?
So if you suffer for doing goodand you endure it, it is
commendable before God.
So you see, it's that samestructure, right?
There's a submissiveproclamation slaves in reverent
fear of God, submit yourselvesto your masters.

(38:29):
Right, human authorityidentified to your masters
Mechanism for silencing ignoranttalk.
For it is commendable if someonebears up under the path or the
pain of unjust suffering, right.
So now he's saying and you're,and you're suffering by doing,
if you are suffering, cause youwere doing good like that is
commendable before God andpeople see that right, just like

(38:52):
Christ on the cross.
When that thief looks over andsays this man has done nothing
wrong, he is submitting himselfto the pain of unjust suffering.
That's what Christ did right,which is exactly what the whole
next point is, which I'm goingto.
Before we get there, though, wetalked earlier right Is that
submission doesn't meanagreement, right, submission

(39:14):
doesn't mean agreement, Right.
So he just told Peter, justtold slaves that you're to
submit to your masters, whetherthey're good and considerate or
they're harsh.
Right Paul in 1 Timothy 1, Ithink it's verse 10, he states
slave masters are one of themost abhorrent type of sins.

(39:34):
Anyone who has ever I hear thisa lot.
Well, the Bible never condemnsslavery Like no it does.
Yeah 1 Timothy 1.10.
Paul says slave masters.
It's listed in one of the worstkind of sins.
Okay.
So Paul hates slavery.
He hates the concept of it.
It is not of God, it is counterto the grace of Christ.

(39:58):
But then in the book ofPhilemon, he meets this runaway
slave named Onesimus.
And what does he tell Onesimusto do?

Imran (40:06):
We did a whole episode.

Ryan (40:09):
Go back to your master.
So this is an example of Paul,in his leadership, disagreeing
with the concept of slaverybecause he could have took his
righteous opinion, and you knowno, no, I'm against slavery.
Let's start at the UndergroundRailroad Right.
But why do we submit what?

(40:29):
Does it go back to the mainpoint.
Submit yourselves.
For what, the Lord's sake?
Yeah.
Because this is one thing Paulknew with Onesimus If he would
have not had Onesimus return andkept him or let him escape,
right then other Christianscould be like so we need to get
the slaves freed.
And then what that would havedone.

(40:49):
Which slaves?
And you know slaves are defineddifferently throughout history.
Right, there's indenturedservants or slaves.
There's those who were forcibly, right, put into slavery.
There's some who voluntarilywent into it and the conditions
for them, you know, were verydifferent throughout history,
also throughout differentregions of areas.

(41:11):
You know what I'm saying.
You know we always think ofAmerican history and antebellum
slavery, right, and not thatlike one's worse than the other.
Right, Because it was abhorrentthen.
But the point being was that hedid not agree with it.
But slaves made up 25% of theRoman economy, Of the labor

(41:32):
force.
So if the Christian movementhad, at that particular time,
became known to be a movement offreeing slaves, then they would
have looked at as the way rightFollowers of Christ, as those
who are trying to crush Rome.
Right, they would not have beenattractive to the gospel.

(41:54):
Yeah Right, so the one thingmore important than Onesimus'
man, that's a word, Onesimus'.
Actions, Freedom.
So one thing more importantthan Onesimus' freedom and the
righteous position of Paul.
The one thing that was superiorto that was the gospel.
I see.
Therefore, paul, onesimus,submit yourself for the sake of

(42:18):
Christ.

Imran (42:21):
Yeah, Something I was thinking about while you're
mentioning that was one thewritings that came out of some
of the Jews that were in theinternment camps during the
Holocaust, and some of thestrongest writings that come out
of there is those that foundpeace and tried to do good even

(42:44):
while in that abhorrentcondition, that impossible
situation to predict or evenplan for, but they still were
able to find a peace in it, andit was by taking care of those
around them, by submitting tothe authority that was there and
and continuing to represent youknow God in that environment.

(43:06):
And then the thing that poppedin my head after that was
actually the books that thepower of a praying wife and the
power of a praying husband,books that that Selena's,
selena's read through Power of aPraying Wife.
I've got Power of a PrayingHusband on my desk.
The way it was written I didn'tget as into it, but I do
remember.
The points that were brought upin there is that the book
really talks about how, ifyou're trying to change your

(43:31):
spouse, then look to, throughprayer and petition, work on
yourself and pray for yourspouse, and it talks a lot about
that submission process, thatcombat is not how you change
your spouse.

Ryan (43:47):
That is the whole point of what Peter makes here.
When we get to the wives,submit to husbands piece.
So hold on to that.

Imran (43:52):
Okay.

Ryan (43:53):
Because that's his point.
But we'll get there in due time, right?
So?
Example one, right Main pointsubmit yourselves for the Lord's
sake to every human authority.
Right so that by doing good youshould silence ignorant and
talk of foolish people, right?
First example he gives hey,slaves, here's an example.
Submit yourself to your masters.

(44:16):
The second example he gives isthe example of Christ and his
own submission, in verse 21through 25.
He says he committed no sin.
Most deceit was found in hismouth when they hurled their

(44:37):
insults at him.
He did not retaliate when hesuffered.
He made no threats.
Instead he entrusted himself tohim.
Who judges justly?
He himself bore our sins in hisbody on the cross so that we
might die to sin and live forrighteousness.
By his wounds you have beenhealed, for you were like sheep

(44:59):
going astray, but now you havereturned to the shepherd and the
overseer of your souls.
So that's an encouraging word toa slave who is saying like go
back to your harsh master,submit to your harsh master.
He says remember Christ on thecross.
He submitted to the crossunjustly, just like you.
But what you need to work on isfollowing his footsteps.

(45:19):
You're going to suffer, youknow.
You may suffer like Christ did,but it was unjust because he
did good.
So go be like Christ.
Do good in your situation, nomatter the injustice of it.
Submit to the reality thatsurrounds it.
Right, you need to submit tothe reality of your situation
and do good within it.
By submitting to your master,you're also submitting to that

(45:44):
reality, right?
Does that mean that we live adefeatist life?
Like, well, this is just mylife, like I guess I'm just
going to live this, like that'snot what he's saying.
What he is saying is that it isfor Christ's sake that you
submit.
I keep saying that over andover because that's the main
point and it leads us into ourtext here in a second where I
think it's going to make alittle more sense within

(46:04):
marriage context.
I do want to note that do youhave a?

Imran (46:07):
point that it's a very real thing from like a military
strategy perspective, to justyou have to accept where you are
in order to move forward.
You know, if you're fightingthe reality of the state that
you're in, then you're nevergoing to actually be solving the
problem that you need to solve.
So, um, I, I, I think that toto kind of clarify your, your

(46:31):
point what is the term?

Ryan (46:33):
embrace the suck right.

Imran (46:34):
Yeah, Embrace the suck right, Like in order to just got
to embrace it in order toimprove your position, in order
to uh make your position moretenable, more resilient, more
defensible, you have to acceptthat your position sucks and you
have to choose and have thewill to like but I'm going to
continue to work to improve itlike a battalion defense
training event.
Oh love those, so go out Justsitting there all day Dig the

(46:56):
trenches.

Ryan (46:57):
Dig the foxholes and it just starts pouring rain Right,
and this is winter.
So like for those who aren'tfrom around here.
The desert means dry.
It doesn't mean warm all thetime, like it's warm in the
summer, obviously it's hot, butit is freezing, cold, but it is
really cold and dry in thewinter, and so we're wet, we're
freezing, and this was the wholetraining.

(47:18):
Like we were supposed to be outthere for three days just in
the defense, practicingdefensive operations.
Like there's nobody coming toattack us, like it wasn't force
on force or nothing, like we'rejust literally in foxholes,
water up to our knees, freezing,and it's just one of those like
embrace the suck.
What you need to do is justaccept the reality that it is
raining, that it is cold, andthis is where you are and

(47:39):
there's nothing that's going tochange that.
Embrace it.
So, now go be good within thatsituation.

Imran (47:47):
Because if you didn't embrace or accept the reality of
your situation, let's say youfought it, or you went internal,
or you stopped.

Selena (47:54):
It's when you become miserable.

Imran (48:01):
It's not just when you become miserable, it's actually
where you're now the mostvulnerable, right like it's,
let's say this was a real fightand you're in the foxhole and
you're it's raining down on you,but you still have to man that
gun because if you, you know,start wallowing and you're not
paying attention, you're notattentive, down the the line,
now you're ripe for exploit, youknow.
So if you're, let's look in ourChristian life.
If you're not willing to acceptthe reality of your situation

(48:24):
and then start makingintelligent decisions to improve
that position based off of thatreality that you're in, then
you're leaving yourself open tobe exploited by those around you
.
All right, they're going tobreak through those now weakened
defenses because you haven'taccepted, you haven't embraced
the suck and started makingbetter decisions.

Ryan (48:41):
The whole idea, though.
I mean, like you were saying,somebody going internal, which
you see a lot you also see it.
When I was up in Bridgeportright On top of that mountain
when it's freezing.

Imran (48:52):
That's where the Mountain Warfare Training Center.
Where the Mountain WarfareTraining Center is, we're
training for.

Ryan (48:59):
Mountain Warfare for the Rain Corps.
You get so bad that you seesome guys start drinking JP8
fuel just so they can get offthe mountain.
It's a real thing.
Coming forward, they actuallyput guards on the generators to

(49:20):
keep people from drinking thefuel, so they go internal.
But the idea of going internalis really again that that's just
your inability to submit toyour situation.

Imran (49:31):
Yeah, and make better decisions.
Your refusal to submit leadsyou to inability to cope, yeah,
so because, your refusal tosubmit your refusal to submit we
do to inability to cope.

Ryan (49:39):
Yeah.
And an inability to cope leadsto a lot of other problems.

Imran (49:42):
Yeah, Because you start fighting the condition when the
condition conditions outside ofyour control, and so you start
doing more and more extremethings to try and fight the
condition, like drinking fuel,right, you know?
So what he?

Ryan (49:53):
says isn't orharm.
Submit for the Lord's sake, sothat you, by doing good, you can
now silence ignorant talk right?
Yeah.
Just accept it Now.
go do your best in thatsituation right Make better
decisions as a believer, as aman as a woman, you know, go
forward.
So that was, as an example givesus Christ's submission on the

(50:17):
cross.
And then now we get to thethird example, which is now
wives, submit to your husbands.
Okay.
So, first, one through seven.
I'm going to read it again Now.
It says, likewise wives besubject to your own husbands.
That even if some do not obeythe word, they may be one
without a word by the conduct oftheir wives.
Okay.
So notice what of their wives,okay?

(50:38):
So notice what it said there.
Okay, wives, submit to your ownhusbands, so that, even if some
do not obey the word, who arenot believers, they may be one
without a word, but by theconduct of their wife.
Right?
So go back up to the main point, right.
Submit yourselves, for theLord's sake, to every human

(50:58):
authority, whether the emperor,supreme authority, to governors,
for it is God's will that, bydoing good, you should silence
the ignorant talk of foolishpeople.
So, live as free people, but donot use your freedom as a
cover-up for evil.
Your freedom as a cover-up forevil.

(51:18):
So, in other words, the problemhe's addressing specifically
with this is that there was alot of women who were becoming
saved, but their husbandsweren't.
Now, that's a problem in everymarriage where that dynamic is
true, where one is a believer,one is not, I mean you don't

(51:40):
think about how often you haveto go back to common ground in a
marriage and a family to buildup from Raising kids.
How do I discipline the kids?
How do we raise you know whatI'm saying, absolutely kids?
How do we?
You know what I'm sayingAbsolutely?
The confusion that creates achild when, well, mom's, you
know mom is telling me thatJesus is the most important

(52:01):
thing in life and then daddoesn't give him a single
thought in the day.

Imran (52:06):
He's still at home in his pajamas watching football while
I'm here, he thinks theSteelers are the best.

Ryan (52:11):
Right.
So how is?
How?
Is this the most importantthing?
And if it is the most importantthing, then why doesn't dad
care?
And if this is true, then whyaren't we doing more for dad and
dad?
Why don't you come to church?
Now he gets angry because hedoesn't believe in it, but now
he thinks his kid hates him, orthe kid goes like I'm gonna be
like dad and you can't tell meotherwise, because dad does it
right it creates so muchproblems and when you're

(52:33):
unequally yoked in that way,right and so this is a very real
thing, right?
Yeah, even worse within thiscontext is that in those days,
like it was accepted that yourwife took on the religion of
your husband in the RomanPantheon.

(53:03):
And let's say, you were aforeigner from Gaul or Spain or
maybe Greece and you serveddifferent gods Egypt, persia,
whatever.
You had your own family, godsor faith you two got married.
You would accept his gods.
That's how it worked.
That was what was expected,right?
So now you find Jesus and yousay, hey, I believe there's only
one God.

(53:23):
I believe Christ died for me.
I don't think I need yourPantheon.
Not just I don't think, I know,I don't need your Pantheon.
What does Imran now do?
Right?
So you see how that createsthis strife, right?
So he's going to, and also thefamily's probably not going to
do.
Well, right, and the whole pointis saying so.
You need to submit to yourhusbands when they're angry

(53:45):
about that.
Yeah Right, this is going tocreate issues, but you win him
over not by fighting, but inyour submission that you can win
them over, that they may be wonwithout a word, but by the
simple conduct of yourself.
Submission is supposed to beone of the primary identifiers

(54:05):
of a believer that we submit ina way that creates peace and joy
, that maintains unity that isfull of grace, right and joy
that maintains unity that isfull of grace, right.
Contentious believers is not agood look.
That doesn't mean there are nottimes that you have to stand
your ground.
You plant your flag and you say, nope, I'm sorry, there's only

(54:28):
one God Christ is the only way.

Imran (54:30):
Yeah, you have to still be clear and concise about what
you believe.
You don't submit away from yourfaith.

Ryan (54:36):
Submission is not the same thing as compromise.
Yeah, exactly, you're notexpected to compromise, but
submission in the sense thathe's not going to handle this
well.
But remember, submit yourselves, for what the Lord's sake?
Right, so that he may be wonover, right back to chapter 3,

(54:58):
that he may be won without aword, but by the conduct of your
wife or their wives.
By doing that good, mm-hmm.
Right, by doing good, wesilence ignorant talk, even if
that's your own husband.
Yeah, right.
Verse 2, when they see yourrespectful and pure conduct, do
not let your adorning be excuseme, I'm sorry, there may be one

(55:20):
without a word, but by theconduct of their wives, when
they see your respectful andpure conduct.
Verse 3.
Do not let your adorning beexternal, the braiding of the
hair and the putting on of goldjewelry or the clothing you wear
.
Now I just want to kind ofpause there, right?
Because as much as you canapply this towards marriage,

(55:51):
right?
Which is this is, I think,specifically talking about a
certain kind of marriage.
One of the elements that we dodraw out of this is God's heart
for women, right?
Notice what he says.
Women and Selena, I'd reallylove your perspective on this,
but I've been reading this book.

(56:13):
It's called Captivating.
I've been reading this book.
It's called Captivating.
It's by so, this man, johnEldridge.
He wrote this book calledFathered by God and Wild at
Heart, and his wife wrote a bookcalled Captivated.
And I'm reading it because Ireally would like to understand,
as a man, how to better leadand disciple my wife and

(56:36):
understand her, how to betterraise my daughter, how to
disciple the females and youth.
So I'm reading this and one ofthe things that a lot of good
things in there but one of thethings that their premise is is
that women, part of theircreation, as they were created,
was to unveil beauty, and yousee this within women, this

(57:00):
obsession almost with beauty.
Right, like there's a reasonthat they spend hours getting
ready in the morning.
I mean, imran, you don't evenhave hair.
You don't even have thepressure of hair.

Imran (57:11):
You can be up and ready in minutes.
I'm not bald.

Ryan (57:15):
It was inconvenient.
Like I have a full head of hair.
I was like man, twenty dollarsa week, like that's inconvenient
whoop gone.
Like, like, my wife, like on asunday morning is, uh, you know,
far before I am getting readyfor church.
I'm up, take my shower, I'mready, ready to go out the door,
and she's still like you knowdoing her thing.

(57:37):
And I'm like you're not evendressed, like we got to go right
, Like we're always late, youknow, and she's always the
reason because she's always.

Imran (57:45):
Wow, put in your boss.
I love her, for everyone toknow.

Ryan (57:49):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no , Because I see you.
Anybody who knows the.
Brown family, and my wife knowsthis to be true.
This is not a secret.
It's a, but you know, women havethat, and there's also this,
that element of women like.
I know it's kind of astereotype, but like, like women
don't like if, if a man and awoman are walking down and a

(58:11):
woman's walking, she's notlooking at the man, she's
looking at the woman.
She's saying how beautiful isshe, How's she dressed, how is
she?
They're always like comparingthemselves, because women were
part of their.
Their created being was tounveil beauty.
Like that is a central elementof who they are and the function
of creation, which is true inthe sense, because they were the
crown of creation.
I have a question, though Would, then, of creation?

Imran (58:32):
Um, I have a question, though.
Would would then maybesomething of the fall be the uh,
their lack of faith in theirown, in the beauty they've
unveiled by just being?
Maybe it's like why, why theyfeel compelled to compare
themselves and all that is like.

Ryan (58:46):
Maybe that's part of I think it's me and my wife were
actually talking about this wasum, she picked up on the fact
that she was very impulsive andthat she wasn't satisfied, that
women can tend to get very likeI'm not satisfied with what I
have, I'm impulsive of somethingelse that I don't have, and
that she went for it.
I mean, there's a couple offailures there in terms of her

(59:14):
and her purpose and identity,but also Adam.
One of the supreme failures ofAdam was that he was passive,
like men are created to beaggressive.
Right, the right way, not in thetoxic way.
But yeah, we are to beaggressive, like if a serial
killer breaks down the door.
Right, like you don't want apassive man standing between you
and that serial killer right ora cockroach.

(59:44):
Me as a man is like I'm notgoing to be passive in a
situation like that.
If I die, I'm not dying a weak,pathetic man.
You're going to have to plug mefull of about 40 holes before I
go down, and by that time myfamily should at least have
enough time to escape, right?
So there's times for men to bephysically aggressive, but more
so aggressive towards sin,aggressive towards I'm seeing
danger in my family.
I'm being aggressive.
I'm not going to wait for thatto grow.

(01:00:04):
I'm going to attack thatimmediately get that out of my
house.

Imran (01:00:07):
Kill culture problems, Aggressive aggressive,
aggressive.

Ryan (01:00:10):
The Supreme, what made Israel unfaithful from the time
of Joshua, through the judges,through you know, to David, um,
that entire time, like well,yeah, they were unfaithful.
What were they unfaithful in?
God told them, told the men youneed to go fight.
I told you to go fight.
They were passive.
Yeah.
Right.
So what you see with Adam issimilarly.

(01:00:33):
He was passive and seeing thedanger of his purpose and the
danger to his wife.
He was a passive man, and soyou see that failure right, and
you do see that with Eve too, Ithink.
but I guess I don't want to gettoo off track on that, because
my thing was is that when you,when you go through like

(01:00:53):
creation week, like we alwaystalk about mankind is like when
you go through creation week, wealways talk about mankind, is
like we're the epoch, we're theclimax of creation, male and
female.
Then he creates man,specifically masculine man and
you can almost say that we arethe capstone, we're the final
piece on top.
But then that's not the lastthing.

(01:01:13):
God doesn't stop there.
He puts Adam into his purpose.
So Adam has a standingrelationship, he's walking with
God, he's living in the purposeGod gave him, in the place God
gave him.
There hadn't been the fall yet.
They're good, right.
But then God still says it'snot good for you to be alone,
right.
So even walking with God andliving in that purpose and doing

(01:01:38):
that, he says it is not goodfor you to be here alone.
So then what he does is he thentakes and creates Eve out of
his character as well.
Right, and he says you need thefeminine part of this Right.
So if men are the capstone ofcreation, women are the crown,
and the whole idea, um, and evenwithin Jewish thought, was that
women were the crown.
They were the crowns of theirhusband, the idea being-.

Imran (01:01:59):
You had to go out and pay a lot to earn the right-.
Oh yeah, they were expensive.
Yeah, the dowry To earn theright to marry.
Well, they're still expensivebut like-.

Ryan (01:02:06):
They're expensive because the concept is easy.

Imran (01:02:08):
The process of going out, because we had the episode on
marriage and that process to goout, and you literally present
an offer to her father, like toof sheep, cow land, like
whatever you have to hopefullyearn the opportunity to marry,
right, you know?
I mean, we still have that withlike engagement ring no, I mean

(01:02:30):
like, but I don't have to go toyour family and say, well, I
have all, have this home, thisjob, and then convince your
family to give me permission.
You know, I did have thatconversation with her family.

Selena (01:02:41):
I was going to say kind of.

Imran (01:02:44):
But it's like, but plenty of people don't do that.
They just, you know, let's gethitched.
You know that culture is there.

Ryan (01:02:50):
But the idea, though within, even like Jewish,
thought, right was that, sorry,I keep distracting from the
question.
What was the question?
Men are the foundation, in asense of like we're, we're the
solid ground.

Imran (01:03:05):
Women are the crown.
Their wives are what make itbeautiful.

Ryan (01:03:06):
Yeah, um, without a woman, a man is just an ugly, stable
rock, right, and so so kind ofunderstanding in terms of like,
how the way they always viewedthat in terms of creation.
But woman was the last thing,the last creative act God made.
He said all has been built, butit's not good for you to be by
yourself.
Let me put your crown on youand he gives them his wife.

(01:03:26):
So, like women were supposed tobe the adorning of their
husband, Do you think the gardenwas not beautiful without Adam?

Imran (01:03:35):
I think everything was named.

Selena (01:03:36):
I mean without Eve.

Imran (01:03:37):
Everything was named and probably very organized.

Ryan (01:03:39):
I don't think life was beautiful without Eve.
I think there is a longing anda seeking that wasn't being
filled within Adam at that time.
That's why God says it's notgood for you to be alone.
I'm preaching on this actuallyin June, when I'm preaching on
shepherding your youth, um, andwe're going to talk about a
little more about the Hebrew.

(01:04:01):
That's behind this, but that'slike a whole nother episode of
this.

Imran (01:04:04):
Okay.

Ryan (01:04:04):
But what's the question?
What's the question?
Well, I was just going to askyou, like, in terms of the
beauty, right, like, would youagree with that statement that
women kind of get obsessive withit more so than men?

Selena (01:04:15):
I agree.

Ryan (01:04:18):
Do you feel like it's a longing within you that, like
you always feel like you have toprove your beauty or have to
unveil beauty wherever you go?

Selena (01:04:25):
Not really.
I actually appreciate thesimplicity.
We had this conversation onSaturday with the men's
breakfast.
I'm like, wow, I love that themen just get together and bring
food and fellowship.
That's amazing and and for me Ifeel like women's ministry it
makes it really complicatedwhere you have to get there and

(01:04:47):
make the entire decorations, thedecorations, the crafts like
you have to make the breakfastbeautiful.
This is my point, that's mypoint he's beautiful.
This is my point, that's mypoint.

Ryan (01:04:57):
Yeah, that's making my point, do you agree?

Imran (01:05:00):
with the premise that women are.
I see that beauty.
Yeah, there's a thing that theysay as a woman when you guys
plan this is what I heard.

Ryan (01:05:08):
I heard it bothers you.
You guys are kind of a weirdcouple though we are, we're
opposites yeah, you areGenerally speaking, though most
women don't let men plan thewedding.

Selena (01:05:17):
I didn't want a wedding.

Ryan (01:05:18):
She didn't even want a wedding.

Imran (01:05:19):
I know, I know we had this, I'm saying you guys are
weird, but most my wife did notlet me.

Ryan (01:05:24):
She's like you can go carry the heavy things right,
because women want to unveilthat beauty.

Selena (01:05:30):
There's a thing about when I would plan the wrong
person to ask yeah, do youremember?
Like even.

Ryan (01:05:35):
Tuesday when we, uh, tuesday night Bible study, we
had a, uh, we did one of thosefellowship potluck nights and
like there was just a few womenin the church that, like Amy
Biggles came up and she was, um,you know my wife.
And then there was, there wasjust a Trissa, there was a few
of them.
They're like so Valentine's daywe said, instead of doing the
Bible study, we're just going tohave like a little Valentine's
potluck for everybody, becausewe already have child care and

(01:05:56):
all that.
And they're like well, are you?
You have decorations.
And I was like no decorations,no.
Like I was like I got a tableand like there's just like this
white table out, like that'swhere they could put their stuff
and we can eat.
And she's like I thought so andshe came with this bag nice,
she came with this bag.

Selena (01:06:15):
Nice, she came prepared, understanding.

Ryan (01:06:17):
She's like man.
Step aside, let the womanunveil the beauty.
Right, and she made itbeautiful and it looked great
right.

Imran (01:06:24):
I will say as one who sees all the pictures from the
women's events and the men'sevents, because we do a lot of
social media stuff.
The women's events arebeautiful.
They are, they are, and a lotof it is also teaching beautiful
things as well.
It's like the older generationis passing on this unique skill

(01:06:44):
about some aspect of makingsomething beautiful to the next
generation of women, and I thinkthat that's awesome as well,
unveiling beauty to the worldand unveiling beauty Compared to
the men's event, where weliterally went shooting just
took all our guns and went outto a random place and just shot.
Compared to the men's event,where we literally went shooting
Right, just took all our guns,just went shooting and went out
to a random place and just shot.
And then the other major eventwe did are the potlucks, where
we just Eat food.
Put tables outside Barbecue Eatfood.
Show up, eat the food.

(01:07:04):
It was before your time.

Ryan (01:07:05):
We used to have axe throwing stations out there.
Wow, it doesn't matter that gotsecured.
But it was a great men's event.
But the point being, though, isthat, generally speaking, like
her, premise is that women wantto unveil beauty, and I think

(01:07:26):
what's interesting here watchwhat it says.
Do not let your adorning so youwomen as the crowns right.
Do not let your adorning yourcrowns be external the braiding
of hair and the putting on ofgold jewelry or the clothes you
wear right.
Don't make this materialistic.
Don't make it about yourfashion.
Don't make it about that's notwhat the real crown in your

(01:07:48):
value and worth is.
What does he say?
But let your adorning yourcrown be the hidden person of
the heart, with the imperishablebeauty of a gentle and quiet
spirit which is, in God's sight,very precious.
For this is how the holy womenwho hoped in God used to adorn
themselves by submitting totheir own husbands, as Sarah

(01:08:13):
obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord, and you are her children, and
if you do good and do not fearanything, that is frightening.
In other words, you have tounderstand.
For Sarah to call Abraham Lord,right, everyone's like oh, so I
have to call my husband Lord,like.
That's not what he is saying.
What he is saying is thatAbraham was given a promise by

(01:08:35):
God, and she said I'm too old,so you better just go take my
servant, go sleep with her, gofulfill God's promise to you
through this young servant ofmine, cause, god, I have no
place in God's promise.
And Abraham, like an idiot,instead of reaffirming his wife
in the same promise as him, saysokay and goes and does it, yeah

(01:08:57):
, right, um, then of coursethat's Ishmael, and then of
course she freaks out.
We've talked about this before.
Right, sends the boy and Hagaraway and you have the first
single mother in the Bible,first single mother in the Bible
.
And you keep so understandinglike Abraham was called
righteous cause he walked byfaith, but he was also an idiot,
and Sarah called him Lord.

(01:09:17):
She knew he was an idiot, right, even when it takes him up to
sacrifice him on a mountain,she's like that's my Lord, that
donkey up there.
You know what I mean, the ideabeing is that what made her
beautiful?
Because Sarah had a lot offailures in that too?
Is that what made her beautiful?
Because Sarah had a lot offailures in that too?

(01:09:40):
But for her, is that she, bycalling Abraham Lord, was the
idea that she submitted to himand things because she disagreed
with him.
You see what I'm saying Like wemissed the point.
We missed the point.
So if you do good and do notfear anything, though that is
frightening.
But then it says this likewise,husbands, we always have to
stop at verse six Husbands, livewith your wives in an

(01:10:03):
understanding way, showing honorto the woman as the weaker
vessel, since they are heirswith you of the grace of life,
so that your prayers may not behindered.
So again, this is one of thoseright Like our target text here,
even when it seems to go to themen, it seems to be very,
almost derogatory towards women.
You know like you need to beconsiderate of those weaker

(01:10:25):
vessels, right?
That is not it.
And this is one of, I think,the things that is very
heartbreaking about this verse,because that verse is also
supposed to be very uplifting ofwomen and it's been changed.
People get offended by it,people don't like talking about
it, they don't want to evenstudy it because I think they're
afraid of what it means.
This is meant to be veryuplifting of women.

(01:10:47):
So let me break it downHusbands, live with your wives
in an understanding way, showinghonor to her.
So you are to live as if, tryto understand her to the best of
your ability Be considerate,showing her honor, you are to
honor her.
It is not very honoring to yourwife if, particularly in public

(01:11:11):
, you just the way you treat heris dismissive.
Woman, stand behind me.
Hey, stop speaking.
Stop speaking.
Right Men are talking.
Oh there's the cars.
Oh, randy, right, like that ishonor your wife.
Yeah, ele.
Oh there's cigars.
Oh, randy right.
Like honor your wife.

Imran (01:11:25):
Yeah, elevate her Honor Christ.

Ryan (01:11:27):
How do we honor Christ?
How do we honor what does honormean?
Exactly what you said ElevateRight.
Look, boys, if you don't likemy wife speaking at this dinner
table, we're both out.
Yeah Right, we're done.
Support empower.
You know what I'm right, we'redone, support, empower.
You know I'm saying like that.

(01:11:47):
You honor her among everybodyelse, honor her with your
friends within, at work, um, andwhatever you're doing, you
honor your wife.

Imran (01:11:51):
Yeah um, one of the things that really for the how
right it really you have to know, right.
So you need to know your wifein order to be able to
effectively honor her.
If you don't know what herdreams, her aspirations, her
goals, her desires are, how areyou going to be able to elevate
her in those things you know,how are you going to be able to
support her in those things?

(01:12:12):
So, uh, like, first off, ifyou're, if, if you're, if you
think your dreams and yourwife's dreams are the same
dreams, then you haven'tcommunicated effectively, you
know, with your wife.
So first you need to listen andask those questions so that you
can actually do these things ofelevating her and honoring her,

(01:12:32):
you know.

Ryan (01:12:33):
So I, yeah, and but, but this is the piece that gets
people right, so we were tohonor her.
She'll honor to the woman asthe weaker vessel.
Okay, weaker vessel, um, let'sjust kind of break that down,
okay, um, first, weaker.
When we think of weak, wealways, you know, weak like um.

(01:12:57):
What do we mean by weak?
The adjective there for weakeris more, in the sense, delicate
right, oh interesting.
As the more delicate vessel.
Now, you could then say well,delicate is weak.
That's your culturalappropriation on something right
.
Why is delicate weak right?

(01:13:20):
Men and women, again, were bothcreated in God's image.
Men and women again, were bothcreated in God's image.
Women who could be moredelicate, whether that's
emotionally, whether that is interms of sensitivity, whatever
that may be.
Physically, we're not justtalking about muscles.
Right, Women, they have smallermuscles.
That's not what he's saying.
Delicacy means the fact thatthey're sensitive, the fact that

(01:13:44):
they want to unveil beauty tothe world, the fact that they
want to be romanced.
That delicacy tells ussomething about the heart of God
.

Imran (01:13:52):
You want to know something God has that delicacy,
hold on.

Ryan (01:13:57):
Yeah.

Imran (01:13:57):
God is such a great woman .

Ryan (01:13:57):
If women want to be romanced and that's at the core
of every one of them as asupreme desire of women they
want to be romanced.
They want to be pursued.
Right, that means God wants tobe romanced.
He wants to be pursued.
He doesn't want to.
He's going to pursue you withall his heart, but he wants you
to pursue him.
He's romantic, right, he issomebody when we sing worship
songs is sentimental to him.

(01:14:18):
Right, it's romantic to him.
He wants you to pursue him.
He wants you to be romantic tohim.
When you see, well, she's justbeing overly dramatic, overly
emotional.
No, maybe what that's tellingyou about the character of God
is that he's emotional.
That may be because you don'tthink it's a big deal.
You're not as angry, you're notas upset, you're not as

(01:14:39):
sensitive.
That shows that God issensitive to it.
You're not sensitive to itbecause you took the masculine
form of him.
She is teaching you thefeminine image of God, that God
is sensitive to things like that, and I just have to finish this
because I've noticed this somuch.

Imran (01:14:56):
How emotional is God to send his son to die for us, like
?
How much emotion is required toeven do something like that?
That's not a logical response,that's an emotional charged
response, you know.

Ryan (01:15:09):
But to continue with your example, Right, because he's
also very sensitive to sin.
You see this in the inverse incertain regards.
Right, like, okay, so youcommit adultery.
What did the law say?
Because the law is the heart ofGod, stone him, kill him, yeah,
well, that seems like the heartof God, then why?
He's just being overlyemotional, isn't he?
He's taking the woman's sidethere, right?

(01:15:30):
Yeah, or that's what he'stelling you, is he's showing you
the sensitivity and how serioushe takes sin.
Right?
This is how I treat.
I'm this sensitive to sin.
You think adultery is bad, butyou don't think it's worth
stoning someone over.
I'm telling you, this is howserious and sensitive I am to
sin.
It's worse than you think it is,and that's often what I learned

(01:15:55):
from my wife.
Sorry, I'm from the wrongcamera.
What I learned from my wife inour marriage is that there's a
lot of situations that arebigger deals than I see them as.
Like I don't see why is that abig deal, like they shouldn't be
upset by that, and she's likeno, it's a big deal.

(01:16:15):
And she'll expose.
She has that discernment, shehas that element that benefits
our marriage, that benefits ourministry, that I lack God's
emotional sensitivity, so she'smore delicate and aware of
certain things that I'm not.
That's not a weakness, that isstrength, yeah Right.
That reinforces my mission as aman, right, it is very

(01:16:36):
beneficial for me to have mywife with me and all that, yeah
Right.
So we're talking delicacy.
I want to hit a quick point.
All that, yeah Right, um, sowe're talking delicacy.

Imran (01:16:45):
I want to hit a quick point.
So we uh I'm not going to saytheir names, but we have this uh
youth couple in the church, um,that's.
That's fascinating to me,because the man in this
relationship, um, has a historyof just such anger, um and bouts

(01:17:05):
of just kind of fits of ragethat he's been working through
over the over, like probably hisentire life.
But the girl that he's with nowis, um, very strong-willed but
also very delicate and verygirly um and how she, how she
carries herself.
And so I kind of saw aculmination of uh their
relationship on Sunday becauseshe had made him this um hat

(01:17:29):
that was like a little, hadlittle bear ears on it.
It was super cute.
And so I walk up onto the uhyou know the into the sound
booth and I see him sittingthere.
He's got kind of this this uhalmost like a mean mugging face
on, as he's wearing this hat andshe's playing with the ears on
his head.
And I saw that and I looked athim and I was like this is why

(01:17:53):
men need women, because this isgoing to make you a better man,
and it's also why men needdaughters.

Ryan (01:18:01):
I've never felt more like a man than letting my daughter
paint my toenails and put makeup.
She still does it.
She's like can I do your hairand do your makeup?
Sure.

Imran (01:18:13):
Yeah, right, I remember you saw the one pink nail.

Ryan (01:18:17):
I don't hate it because I actually adore it.
What I hate is makeup Like Idon't know how you women do it,
but you just feel it.
You feel the weight on yourface.
You try to get it off, itdoesn't come off and then it's
like you start breaking outbecause it's your clog.
Your pores are all clogged,like I'm like, why do they do
this?
This is awful, besides thepoint Um, but yeah, that's.
That's why we need we needwomen, right?

Imran (01:18:37):
When I said that to him, though, he kind of broken this
like half grin and I I don'tknow if he got it, but it looked
like he kind of somethingclicked in his head.
It's like this is.
This is why you need her.
So the other piece she's makingyou better.

Ryan (01:18:50):
Weaker means delicate.
Right, it's a delicate, butthat doesn't mean worse.
That's what men need, right?
And women don't need anotherdelicate person.
They need what a man bringswhich is more of the stronger
foundation, who is so obliviousto some of that reality that

(01:19:10):
she's like, hey, knucklehead,come here, let me explain to you
what's going on.
Right, you need each other,right?
So he's saying as the delicatevessel.
But notice, it says vessel, yoursaid partner, and this is what
you got to be careful with Bibletranslations, because it is not
partner.
It's nowhere close to partneris that word.
The word in Greek is vessel.

(01:19:32):
But it's not just vessel, it'snot just like a container, right
, what it actually annotates?
Think about like a, think aboutan irreable, like family
heirloom.
Think about like greatgrandma's China.
It's delicate and it's one of akind, it's valuable and it's

(01:19:55):
irreplaceable.
Okay, that's the vessel he'stalking about.
He's saying she is delicate.
He's essentially saying, men,for the purpose to which you
serve, you better be veryconsiderate and understanding of
your wife's perspective,because she is like that
irreplaceable, invaluable,delicate family heirloom, that

(01:20:18):
china that if you are notcareful and you break that, you
can't replace, that, you cannever put it back together.
You can never put it backtogether.
You can't replace it.
There's there's nothing there.
Um, there's no replacement forthat.
Everybody just thinks like, ohokay, well, this wife's not
working, let me just go putanother one there.
That's not how that works,right.
Everybody uniquely providestheir own value.

(01:20:39):
Your wife brings uniquelyimmense value to you.
Um I that you need to be verycareful and appreciative of how
she handles and is able tosupport you in your mission.
If you truly care about doingGod's will in your life and
being submissive to what he istelling you to do, then you

(01:21:00):
should very much care about yourwife's perspective.
If you don't care about that,then now all the delicacy and
all the you know, emotion anddrama and all that intuition
that women bring, that annoy menbecause we don't understand it,
because it's not us.
But it's completely necessary,but it's completely within the
image of God right that we needto do what we need to do to be

(01:21:23):
in God's will.
But if I don't care about God'swill, then that stuff that is
valuable to me just now justbecomes annoying, right.
And you start seeing that like,okay, you're just, you're just
being dramatic.
Why do you have to be dramaticabout everything?
It's like, well, maybe if she'sbeing dramatic about everything
, you're not listening.

Imran (01:21:38):
Yeah, You're missing.

Ryan (01:21:39):
You're not paying attention and you're not
operating within God's willbecause you're only doing this
half-heartedly right now.
There's this whole otherelement that you need to fully
dive into doing what you need todo.
So I'm sorry, women, I can'trelieve you of the expectation
that you have to submit to yourhusbands.
However here Peter is talkingyou need to be very considerate

(01:22:04):
of them and the immeasurablevalue they bring.
You would not take yourgreat-grandma's china and then
use those cups to let thetoddlers drink out of.

Imran (01:22:21):
Yeah, let the dog drink out of you know what I'm saying.

Ryan (01:22:24):
You don't do that.
You treat that with high value,you protect it, you keep it
safe, you treasure it, rightyeah?

Imran (01:22:30):
That's how you're supposed to approach your wife.
You also don't hide it away ina box, because you're ruining
the value of it as well.

Ryan (01:22:39):
No, it's an adorning.
Yeah, most people have a chinacabinet.
If they have that kind of china, it is there for right.
It's the adorning of herhusband.
Right, she is to bring thatbeauty there it's a crown.
So there's, but then I want tokind of touch this though.
Okay, so now I get to get alittle.
This gets a little.
See the unpopular part out loud, controversial.

(01:23:03):
No, well, I've made it this farBefore I hit that women have to
submit to their husbands,husbands have to submit to their
wives.
So we always go to Ephesians 5,right, men, love your wives as

(01:23:24):
Christ loved the church.
Wives submit to your husbandthe way he submitted himself.
So we always set this kind ofexpectation Men are there to
love their wives, wives arethere to submit to their
husbands.
Right, that that's Ephesianswhat?
521.
Back up one verse.
Okay, back up one verse.

(01:23:44):
You guys going to it now.
I actually didn't have itwritten down.

Imran (01:23:49):
Ephesians what?

Ryan (01:23:50):
Chapter five.

Imran (01:23:51):
Yep Ephesians, I'm on two , three, four, five what 21.

Ryan (01:23:55):
What does Ephesians 21 say ?

Imran (01:23:59):
Well, I'll read 22.
Wives, submit yourselves toyour own husbands as you do to
the Lord.
Verse 21, submit to one anotherout of reverence for Christ.
Boom, okay.
And then for 23 as well.
No, no, no, you don't have toworry about that, because you've
already made my point.

Ryan (01:24:15):
Yeah, wives, submit to your husband, right, we take
that back up one verse.
What is the actual expectation?

Imran (01:24:21):
to one another.

Ryan (01:24:31):
Husbands are equally to submit to their wives, as wives
are expected to submit to theirhusbands.
And, um, so let me say theunpopular part.
Okay, why then, over and over,do we keep seeing wives being
called to submit to theirhusbands in scripture, if the
expectations that we submit toeach other Okay, so so let's
just start there.
Okay, if Emran is expected tosubmit to you as much as you are

(01:24:53):
to expect it to submit to him,right, then why is it constantly
coming and saying Selena, youneed to submit to Emran, selena,
you need to submit to Emran.
You see what I'm saying?

Imran (01:25:04):
It's probably because you're not you see what I'm
saying.
I think it's probably becausethat's what you're going to
struggle with.
There you go, and this is theunpopular part.

Ryan (01:25:13):
I've said this before about men, so let me start there
, just so I can keep this fair.
Okay, I think that if Goddidn't tell men to be the
spiritual leaders of their home,they wouldn't be, because I
think women make them morenatural spiritual leaders.
Yeah, men are uh, women are farmore relational than men.
That's part of that, that, thatthat delicacy that they, they

(01:25:33):
possess within that, that piece.
I see this all the time inchurch.
You see, it doesn't even matter.
Like young women, right?
Like 20 years old, 21 years old.
They're like dragging theirboyfriends to church by the ear.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Families nope, get in the car.
We're going to church as afamily.
You see women as the naturalleaders.

Imran (01:25:50):
I feel like Natural spiritual leaders, natural
spiritual leaders in the home.
Yeah, so if God didn't tell men, and men want to lead in,
everything else Right, except?

Ryan (01:25:57):
spiritually.
If God did not tell men to leadyour home spiritually, they
would not.
It would be women.
So he says you need to step up.
You need to do this right.
It's actually adding yourweakness that I'm giving you
that charge.
So likewise.
So if that's true, then I thinkthe reason why you see, often
the command for wives to submitto their husbands is because I

(01:26:17):
think women struggle withsubmission more than men do, and
I think you see that a lot withwomen's interactions to each
other do, and I think you seethat a lot with women's
interactions to each other, um,I think and of course this is
not true of everyone I thinkeverybody has to grow into
learning submission.
Um, I don't think women alsorealize how much men actually
submit to women.
Um, and this is what I mean,like, submission comes in the

(01:26:41):
little things right.
Like all men, even if yourmarriage is, you feel like
falling apart.
If I were to go ask that man,would you take a bullet for your
wife, every one of them?
Yes, absolutely, I would diefor my wife, even with our

(01:27:01):
marriage falling apart.
I would be faithful in thatregard.
I would, um, I would absolutelydo that Submit to that fate for
my wife.
And the big things Submissioncomes in the little things,
right.
Um, the game's on.
You've had a long day at work,you're tired, you just want to
relax, and then, hey, can youcome take the trash out?

(01:27:22):
And then, when you're done withthat.
Can you go do this honey-dolist?
Okay, will do, and you see,that's the mission.
Yeah, do you think men justlove doing your honey-to-do list
?
You guys know what I'm sayingHoney-do list.

Imran (01:27:35):
I don't know what that is A honey-do list.
Honey can you do, and they like.

Ryan (01:27:40):
You know they'll make a list of things I need you to do.
It's unfathomable to me to evermake a list of chores to give
to my wife.
How that?
Would go.
I'm just saying like.
I know it's not.
I'm just being honest.
I'm trying to be honest andmaybe I'm wrong, but it's very

(01:28:04):
clear that husbands are tosubmit to their wives, wives are
to submit to their husbands.
Why are?
wives being called out for notsubmitting to their husbands,
probably because they strugglewith it more.
Likewise, men get called outmore for not loving their wives
properly their way.
You see what I'm saying.
So you see this.
Where so our wives not expectedto love their husbands?

(01:28:27):
Of course they are.
Wives don't have a hard timeloving their loving their
husbands their husband's way.
Men have a hard time lovingtheir wives their wife's way,
right?
Similarly, men probably do alittle bit better with
submission to their wives, andwives do in submitting to their
husbands, so it's called outmore right Like submission to
their wives.
And wives do in submitting totheir husbands, so it's called
out more right Like um, that's apretty simple explanation,
because the most of the Bible iswritten that way.

Imran (01:28:50):
Um, like Paul wouldn't call out um the Galatians for
their um, their issues withsubmissions, with the uh, with
all the sexual debauchery thatwas going on.
Um, he wouldn't call them outthe way that he did if it wasn't
an issue.

Ryan (01:29:06):
Like he just was talking about something else.
Ephesians in particular.
Specific context of Ephesiansand the Ephesus church is that
they had the temple of Artemisthere.
I mean, it was one of theseventh wonders of the world.

Imran (01:29:17):
Oh, I might be thinking of Ephesians and not.

Ryan (01:29:19):
Ephesus yeah, yeah, so from there, like that was a very
sexually free society.
If you grew up in that cultureand you weren't a believer, you
were sleeping with prostitutes,probably since you were old
enough.

Imran (01:29:31):
To sleep with prostitutes Right.

Ryan (01:29:33):
And it wasn't frowned upon , it was celebrated, it was
encouraged being able to gochoose any one of you know a, a
gorgeous prostitute of of of artand one of Artemis's
priestesses, to go sleep withRight, and even if it's like,
well, I belong to Christ.

(01:29:53):
I don't really believe inArtemis, but I still have this
free act.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah.
So husbands, go, love your wifethe way Christ loved us.
Stop that nonsense.
Because of that, also with thatculture, there was almost this
hyper-feminism in Ephesusbecause seventh wonder of the
world, goddess, artemis,priestesses, the religious
authority, were women, right?

(01:30:14):
So there was almost just likewe are in charge here, right?
He's like no, start submittingto your husbands.
So the point being is that forboth the expectations you both
submit, and the expectation forboth is that you're supposed to
make it easy for your spouse tosubmit to you.
Yeah.
It becomes much harder to submitto your spouse when certain

(01:30:36):
behavior right is there, andmaybe the reason wives have a
harder time submitting to theirhusbands is because husbands
don't make it as easy to submitto as wives make it for us to
submit to them.
You see what I'm saying.
So even just because it may becalling that out specifically
doesn't mean that there's not anunderlying cause of that either
.
You know what I'm saying?

(01:30:56):
Both are expected to submit toone another.

Imran (01:31:00):
Yeah, because your wife's not going to submit to your
debauchery.
Your wife's not going to submitto your sin.
Your wife's not going to submitto your sin.
Your wife's not going to submitto your chaos.
So it's like if you're leadingpoorly, then don't expect
willful submission.
She may, in her maturity,submit to create peace and to
hopefully change you over timeand do all the things that we

(01:31:20):
talked about in Peter, but atthe same time, of course, she'll
be combative if you're leadingin an un-Christlike way.
It's like God doesn't say leadyour household however you want,
you're supposed to lead it inGod's way, and you both mean
within submission of Christright.
Yeah.

Ryan (01:31:40):
So kind of wrap this up then.
So one to the point.
Right, this isn't your prooftext of model of marriage in the
sense that, like Peter's pointwas to the larger main point,
which was what.

Imran (01:31:56):
Submit to the emperor.

Ryan (01:31:58):
Well, we'll submit to all human authority for the Lord's
sake, right?
So the first thing, why shouldwe submit?
It's all for the Lord's sakeand for our witness to the world
.
Right Submission is for Jesus.
So let's say you're like, hey,well, you talked about it.

(01:32:19):
My husband, my wife is not easyto submit to Right, so they're
one of those that make it verydifficult to.
So you know, god understandsthat, he sees that he, he's fair
, right.
What is this actual point?
Say Submit to all humanauthority, for the Lord's sake.
You're not submitting to yourspouse just for your spouse's

(01:32:40):
sake, you're submitting to yourspouse for Jesus's sake.
So in other words, insubmitting to your spouse,
you're submitting to Christ Torebel against that and not
submit to your spouse.
You are then rebelling and notsubmitting to Christ.
A slave is not reallysubmitting to their master.

(01:33:01):
A slave is submitting to Jesusright To go.
Submit to their master, harshor not, they're not submitting
to their master, they'resubmitting to Christ For a free.
People are not submitting to anemperor, they are submitting to
Christ.
Wives are not submitting totheir husbands, they're
submitting to Christ.
Husbands are not submitting totheir wives, they are submitting

(01:33:21):
to Christ and I think that kindof central piece right All the
things that scripture tellsChristians to be submissive to
government.
Right, paul and Romans besubmissive to government, be
submissive in your marriage, besubmissive to your boss and
those authorities.
Right Like over and over andover.

(01:33:42):
This is a concept.
In other words, if you couldsay it this way show me I can
show you your submission toChrist based off who I see you
submit to Right.
Show me your submission toother people.
I can show you how submittedover you are to Christ, because
that's what he's told you to do.

Selena (01:33:59):
It's out of obedience.

Ryan (01:34:01):
And ultimate submission to him.
Yeah Right, obedience andultimate submission to him.
Right, like I have a few.
If you love me, what does hesay?
Then go love each other, right?
If you love me, go feed mysheep.
If you submit to me, then youneed to submit to each other and
all the other worldlyauthorities.
If you belong to me, then go beholy, for I am holy.
In other words, on things we doon behalf of Christ as

(01:34:26):
believers.
We do on behalf of Christ whensomebody in church offends you
and hurts you to where you wantto leave the church.
He calls you to serve.
And how does it?
Love the people of God, becauseI have loved you, submit to that
when people hurt you.

(01:34:46):
I didn't call you to to toserve the church for this
church's sake or to serve apastor.
You're serving the churchbecause you're serving me.
I told you to go serve thechurch.
So when somebody hurts you, youhave no excuse to disconnect
fellowship with them.
Let me just be very clear.
I don't mean there's obviouslysome things that you're like I

(01:35:07):
need to disconnect fellowshipfrom you.
Know what I'm saying?
What I'm saying is that justbecause somebody has hurt or
offended you and you don't wantto resolve it with them.
It's just easier for you toleave and go to the church down
the street.
He says that's not honoring.
Go, handle this the way I toldyou to handle it, right, go, go.
Or maybe it's a dispute withthe pastor?

(01:35:29):
Go, submit to your pastor um onthis Right Um cause.
In doing so, you're submittingto me by serving them you're
serving me.
Um, so first we submit for thesake of Christ and our witness
Right.
Um, For the sake of Christ andour witness right, we do not
submit to our government onthings we disagree with because

(01:35:50):
we agree with them.
We're submitting because welove Jesus.
And if a believer, if we, howam I?
How are I to say this?
If we are, if we lacksubmission in our walk, we are
not attractive to people.
It is our faith and our walkthat is supposed to draw people

(01:36:11):
to Christ.
Yeah.
We just become annoying, so youcould prove yourself right,
right.

Imran (01:36:17):
People love to do that.
Right, that's the easy thingand get the world to hate you.

Ryan (01:36:21):
Yeah, or you could be submissive, where everybody else
would say something just out ofego to prove themselves.
Right, you submit to drawpeople in for the sake of Christ
.

Imran (01:36:33):
Yeah, but it's not to dismiss your point you still
bring up.
This is right, this is true andthis is accurate.
This is what I believe.
But I'm submitting because thatsubmission is all.
You are in a position ofauthority and so I'm submitting
because this is also what I'mcalled to do.

Ryan (01:36:52):
Because if you don't submit, the world doesn't see
light.
They see a problem.
Yeah.
You know what I mean and youdon't want people looking at
Christ as a problem.
You want them looking at him asthe answer and, um, remember,
it's not just for the Lord'ssake but by doing good that we
can silence the talk of ignorantand foolish people so people
could come at you all day.
They're going to still mock you.

(01:37:12):
They're going to yeah, they'regoing to do that, but you
continue doing good the way youshould, and you continue to
submit right, not being thatproblem, right Just to be the
problem, but instead beingsubmissive in that you're going
to silence their foolish talkbecause other people are going
to look at that and be like dude, that that dude's an idiot Like
you see the way that he wasmaking fun of the like.
These people are amazing andthey may even be somebody that

(01:37:34):
are like I don't really I'm notsure I believe in in in in
Christianity and but I do knowthat those are good people and
they did not deserve that.
And and you know what I'm sayingyour actions will silence
foolish talk, your words andyour, your tweets and your
Facebook posts and all of thatdoesn't draw them to you, right?

(01:37:55):
Um, so first is, for the Lord'ssake and witness.
Second, um, and we already kindof hit it, but submission
applies to all believers,regardless of gender, regardless
of your race, economic orsocial status in marriage,
whether you're husband, wife.
This is an expectation toeverybody.
And then the last thing I wouldwell really just the last two
things.
Submission to the character ofyour spouse.

(01:38:18):
Um, when, when it says, men,you are to be considerate of the
delicacy and the value thatyour wife brings in a marriage.
If she feels like you're notbeing considerate and you feel
like you are right, like no,what do you mean?

(01:38:41):
I'm not being in my best way,I've been considerate to you and
she's like I don't think youhave been Right, it doesn't
matter what you think.
Submission to that is thensaying I submit to what your
view of that is.
You're saying I'm not beingconsiderate enough.
How am I not being considerateenough?
I will submit to that.
Yeah, help me become moreconsiderate.

Imran (01:39:01):
There's a line from the video game God of War, where the
main character tells his sondon't be sorry, be better.

Selena (01:39:12):
That's where you get that from, and it's like it's
kind of interesting there,because that's what your point
remind me of.

Imran (01:39:21):
It's like don't don't just.
It's like, even if you admitthat you're, you're sorry, like
don't just say you're sorry anddo the same thing over and over
again.
You know be better.

Ryan (01:39:29):
Right and and if we've talked about this before with
you, know cheating right, likeSelena may have a completely
different view of what cheatingmeans compared to you.
You see this a lot with porn.
You see this with couples whereshe's devastated, as if he
cheated.
He's like look like I don'tthink it's okay, like they feel

(01:39:52):
very embarrassed and ashamed,but they're like but I don't
think I cheated, I don't think Ibroke a covenant with her.
I'm not saying it's right, Ijust don't think it's cheating.
And she's just in tears, broken.
No, I think that's cheating.
They never had that conversation, right?
Like a very healthyconversation for particularly
newlyweds who are about to getmarried.
If you're engaged, what doesthe other consider cheating?

(01:40:13):
It doesn't matter what youthink cheating is.
What only really matters iswhat she thinks cheating is yeah
, and vice versa, and vice versaright, like that's all that
matters.
You need to submit to thosethings, submit to that character
, I would say in terms of thecharacter of the differences
between men and women.
Right, like for men, if Godvalues the imperishable inner

(01:40:37):
quality of a woman and saysthat's her adorning, that's her
crown, if that's what God values.
That's what we should value,more so than anything Right, and
we should affirm our wives inthe fact that, yes, you're very,
very pretty, but it's just areality.
Okay, like men, and women justhave to accept this, no matter

(01:40:58):
how good looking you were whenyou were younger, in your youth
at some point you're going to be85 years old, raggly, saggy,
not moving around.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.

Imran (01:41:08):
It's like well, how do people stay together for 56
years?
It's not because of outerbeauty.

Ryan (01:41:12):
You better start looking and appreciating your wife for
that inner value that she has.
Yeah, and you know, certainlywomen, you know, pursue your
internal value in Christ morethan the external right and you
even see this Pursue the innerbeauty instead of the plastic
surgery.
Right, but you see it in church, right.
Like you see some peoplegravitate to their church
cliques based off their fashion,like, oh, she dresses like me.

(01:41:34):
I've never seen thatconsciously.
I've never consciously noticedthat You'll notice it, You'll
notice, people will naturallygravitate Like I can, like it's.
It's to the point where I'm ableto see new people coming in and
I'm able to look at the couple,like I know exactly who they're
going to fit in with and I'm Ihave yet to be proven wrong Um,
some of it.
That's just naturally of likewhere people are in life.

(01:41:56):
So it's not like it's all wrong.
Right, I'm not saying that, butthere have been times where
I've seen certain womengravitate towards each other
just because they could tellthat they like shopping at the
same stores as them and theydon't consider other people,
maybe because of that element.
I'm not saying that's everybody, I'm just saying, as an example
, like women should stop valuingthe external so much, start

(01:42:20):
valuing the internal and startemphasizing, looking for within
self and others, the internalvalue of women and appreciating
them for that as well.
Right, Um?
So I had a few other pointshere, but it's we'll, we'll move
on, Cause I know it's it's umhow did you teach this all in 45
minutes?
I didn't have you interruptingme, that's true.

(01:42:44):
That's fair, it does add a lot.
I mean, it really does.
This is probably an hour when Ifirst taught it.
But the last thing issubmission is relative to the
human authority.
Right, like what submissionlooked like to government, what
submission looks like to husband, wife, what that looks like to

(01:43:04):
a boss that changes over time,cross cultures right, submission
is very, also very relative.
Um, you know in the fiftieswhat a a wife submitting to a
husband or a husband submittingto a wife looked like looks much
different then than it probablydoes now.
Yeah.
Right.
The same thing goes in terms ofyour interactions with your

(01:43:26):
boss Right, there are certainthings that are acceptable now
with your boss.
That if you would have donethat, you know, back in the
1920s that would have beenconsidered like disrespectful.
Like if you were to say, inviteyour boss over for a barbecue
on a Saturday, you would havenever done that, like prior,
probably to like 19, you know 60, right, like um, there's just,

(01:43:47):
things change, right.
So you have to also look atthings within its context, its
culture as it is now tounderstand that balance of what
a submission in this situationlook like.
Um and again doesn't meancompromising, but but submission
.
What does that submission looklike?

Imran (01:44:03):
Like it's like we don't have the Roman, uh, capital, uh,
not Roman, sorry, the um, theuh, what was it called?
The tower where they had allthe priestesses and all that in
there?
Um, and we don't have thatwhere they go and they just have
sex with all the priestesses.
But we have, you know, allthese websites, right, you know

(01:44:25):
that technology we don't have.
We don't have this temple thatwe go to to fornicate with
random people, but we have thiscomputer, this computer that can
bring you to 80,000 differenttemples.
Exactly Right.

Ryan (01:44:36):
And so yeah, um, we are to compel people in faith, based
off of our good action.
We're, we're to where, I'msorry, we're not to compel them,
we are to draw them, or whatshould be compelling about us,
is our conduct that draws themin Right.

(01:44:57):
Um submission does that becausewe're ultimately not really
submitting to them.
We're submitting to Christ inour witness right.
That's going to be very hard todo if that's not the most
central piece of your life.
If Christ is not the center,glorifying him is not the center
.
Being the best witness anddisciple you can be of Christ is
not your center.
Submission is going to be very,very hard for you.

Selena (01:45:20):
It's very true.

Ryan (01:45:21):
Right, and what you also find, why a lot of people have a
hard time submitting to otherpeople.
It's just an higher elevationof self in that situation, right
, like yeah, I value you, I justvalue myself far more.

Imran (01:45:35):
Gotcha.

Ryan (01:45:36):
So that's why that humilityneeds to be there, and then
that's why men understand thevalue of your wife, you can
submit, if you really trulyunderstood her value, what she
brings to you, you'd have noproblem submitting to her Right
Because it's worth it.
And if women looked at theirhusbands, began to trust them
and understand and again makingit easy to submit, but

(01:45:56):
understanding the value thattheir husbands provide them,
it's easier to submit to RightAll the same Right.
It's easier to submit to rightAll the same right.
Like so, submission must bepure to lead to pure faith.
But ultimately, though,submission in itself very

(01:46:19):
Christian concept that we don'ttalk about enough, in my opinion
, and it touches everyrelationship we have not just
from this way, with Christ, butwith each other.
It's kind of like one of thoselost arts.
But I have plenty of exampleshere, but I know we're already
much out of time.
Hey, it was our last episodefor a couple months or whenever

(01:46:42):
we come back, so I guess I'llopen it up for you guys.
Did you have any lastingthoughts?

Selena (01:46:48):
I think it's really important to know this to have a
healthy church, Because if youdon't, that's when you have
separation in the church andjust a lot of disagreements.
Same with marriage, yeah Righta lot of disagreements Same with
marriage, yeah.

Ryan (01:47:07):
Right, Right.
This is with anything anyrelationship you could make that
statement of, and it requires alot of denying oneself
Absolutely.
You know, as you said earlier,deny thyself and pick up your
cross and follow him.
Yeah, absolutely he submittedto us before he asked us to
submit to him.

(01:47:29):
And he submitted himself to thegovernment authority.
He submitted himself to thereligious authority.
He submitted he was washingfeet the night before he was
arrested.
Follow the example of yourrabbi.

Imran (01:47:43):
Yeah, it's like the son of man rabbi.
Yeah, it's like the son of mandidn't come to be served, but to
serve, you know, the?
The final point I was thinkingof, too, was we didn't talk much
about just the like, therelationship between like kind
of the father and the son andthe father and the daughter,
mother and mother and their sonsand daughters as well, because

(01:48:04):
that submission and that lovehas to be present there as well
too, and it's its own uniquedynamic that we have to work
through.
So, but overall, right.
So one of the very first topicsthat we ever heard you talk
about, and as we came to thechurch, this is what your kind
of like main topic that otherpeople told us like oh, man

(01:48:27):
brian should tell you about hissubmission, uh, a series that he
did, or his submission fullcircle right.
And so now, after you know,three years of being here, it
was probably better than becauseit was uh.

Ryan (01:48:38):
You know, it was all new and fresh to me too, and I was
all fired up.

Imran (01:48:40):
I don't know yeah I think if we had done that, then,
though, I think we would haveboth just been, you know, crying
or I don't know.
I don't know if we were readyto hear it then.

Selena (01:48:50):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
It's like hmm, but thanks forbearing with us too.
I know we talked about likestarting off in the closet
downstairs, and then we took thepodcast to our living room and
then the small office and thenwe're like we need a bigger
office.

Imran (01:49:06):
We actually converted our master bedroom.
Yeah, selena moved the entiremaster bedroom into one of the
smaller rooms and then we turnedthe master bedroom into a
studio slash office space, andthat's where we were for the
past about a year.

Selena (01:49:19):
So every time Ryan showed up I was like this is
different, I don't like it andnow we actually have this spot
here at the church to record.

Imran (01:49:26):
Just in time for us to leave, I know, but now it's just
in time for you to be able tocontinue it here, whether with
us or with another group, it'ssomething that we can do.

Ryan (01:49:37):
I should get like a pull down.
I was thinking the Palm Churchand Real Bible Stories banner.
No, because then you're goingto interrupt the the treatment.
I know well, I'll do it whenyou leave, when you can't see it
, I'll hear it.
I'll hear it.

Imran (01:49:53):
I hear paper rustling in the background.
What's going on?
How's that?
yeah, but anyways, thank you somuch, ryan, for everything, and
whether we continue doing thisin a few months or this ends up
being the final episode, I feelat peace.
You know this has been anabsolute journey and it's been
an amazing opportunity.

Ryan (01:50:10):
I hope we can keep it going because it's been a
blessing to me too.
But everything has a season.
Everything has an ecclesiastesright as an Ecclesiastes right,
like there's a season foreverything and season for
healing, season for fighting,season for crying right.
There's a season for podcastsand sometimes there's a season

(01:50:33):
not for podcasts.
So we're always going into aseason of no podcast for a
little bit.
We'll be in diligent prayeruntil then and I think God will
make it very clear and veryobvious on our hearts once we
get, once you guys transition,hopefully safely and without any
problems, and you guys get yourhouse that you're trying to get

(01:50:55):
, and as you guys do that wholetransition and start a new
journey there, that it becomesobvious and you know, because
you're also going to findanother church family out there
that you're going to hopefullyfall in love with and serve the
way you've loved and served ushere.
And you know this may besomething that we have to let go

(01:51:16):
at that time and maybe not.
Maybe you hate it there andyou're like how out of our day
is just doing the podcast rightnow.
This has been my favorite thingcoming out.
Our day is just doing thepodcast, right.

Selena (01:51:24):
Yeah.
No but this has been myfavorite thing coming out of 29
palms.
It's a podcast for sure.

Ryan (01:51:30):
Yeah, I think it's something you are certainly
really needed spiritually,certainly one of my favorite
people that that we've had.
So, um, we're going to miss you, part of me.
We should just keep the podcast, just so I can talk to you guys
still.

Imran (01:51:44):
That's one of the main reasons why I want Selfishly
just to

Ryan (01:51:47):
stay connected to home, that's if you don't happen to
get a bunch of flat tires on theday you're supposed to leave.
I don't know how that wouldhappen.

Imran (01:51:55):
That's crazy.
I don't know.
You're not the first person tothreaten to cause harm.

Ryan (01:52:00):
That's good.
Good to know, because thatmeans you can't ever say Ryan
said he would do it.
There's at least threedifferent families that have
threatened us to stay.
Each one of us will just takeour own tire.

Imran (01:52:10):
And together we.

Ryan (01:52:13):
But we love you guys and to those who are listening and
who have been listening, we dofeel encouraged by a lot of the
things that you guys write andwhen you guys talk to us,
particularly those in the church, um, and the encouragement
because, as you can kind of see,we just talk to each other in
these walls and um, but but yourguys's interactions have have

(01:52:34):
blessed us.
I've grown in this Um, thisformat is not what I'm used to,
it's not what um used to, it'snot what um I am typically ever
like preferable of right, likeum, but I've been able to grow a
lot in this as well.
So, um, for this season, um,you know, as we go into this
break, you know whatever God hasfor on the other end of this um

(01:52:57):
, just know that we appreciateyou all and um, yeah, I've been
a blessing with you guys here,because, no matter after what
happens after this, we're notgoing to be in the same room
doing it.
So this is really this is theclosing of a chapter for us that
that we're not gonna be able tomeet and talk for hour and a
half before drinking coffee and,um, eating your your amazing

(01:53:20):
street corn dip.
That I tried.
You gave me the recipe and Icompletely botched it.
Um, but you know it's, it's.
This is an end for us, so, um,but, but I love you guys.

Imran (01:53:33):
We love you too.
So, yeah, amen to that.
So, um with that.
Hopefully, god willing, we willsee you on the next episode of
Real Bible Stories.
Goodbye loves me, so I know thathe won't let go.
Only a few things I know.
I know that he loves me, soknow that he won't let go.

(01:54:00):
Yes, j Jesus loves me.
This I know.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 86 Submit to Submission: A Real Discussion About Biblical Submission (Our First Video Episode!)

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Ep 86 Submit to Submission: A Real Discussion About Biblical Submission (Our First Video Episode!)

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