October 11, 2024 • 28 mins
How is the real estate industry being revolutionized by appraisal modernization? Meet John Barcelo, a pioneering force in real estate valuation, sharing his journey from the foreclosure sales trenches of Tampa in the 1980s to co-founding a groundbreaking national appraisal firm. John unveils how technological advancements are reshaping appraisals, with the potential to deliver valuations within 24 hours—a norm in places like Australia and New Zealand. Get ready to expand your understanding of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's innovative valuation processes that are set to transform the industry.
Communication is key, especially when navigating complex real estate trends. We explore the dynamic interaction between real estate agents and appraisers, emphasizing the importance of speaking the appraisers' language for seamless transactions. From understanding the nuances of local market trends to the rise in mortgage applications due to fluctuating interest rates, we unpack the current market conditions. Discover how real estate agents play a vital role in the appraisal process by returning calls and sharing on-the-ground insights.
Natural disasters like Hurricane Helene that just passed throught the Tampa Bay area and throughout the south east, pose unique challenges to the real estate market, and in this episode, we tackle the issues of affordability and growth stagnation. John shares insights on the stigma attached to properties affected by storms and how remediation can shift perceptions over time. We also highlight the powerful partnerships that can be forged in the industry, harkening back to John's collaboration with Charles Rutenberg. Tune in for a comprehensive discussion on the importance of mutual support and collaboration for achieving success in the ever-evolving real estate landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, good morning everybody.
It is Mike and Amir with you onthis week's edition of the
Charles Ruttenberg RealityPodcast, or better known as Golf
Coast to Space Coast.
That's right, Welcome.
What's going on, Amir?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You know, I just sat in this awesome class where John
Barcelo joined us and gave the,like you said, one of the best
appraisal classes I've ever beenin.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I told you it would be that good.
I really tried to get heretoday.
I was actually out buying stormhurricane relief supplies and I
got a little jammed up.
But we do want to introduce ourspecial guest today, john.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Thank you, gentlemen, I appreciate it and thanks so
much for the kind words.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely.
You've earned every bit of them.
I can tell you, john, I've beendoing this a long time and,
like I said, I learned more fromyour appraisal class about a
year and a half two years ago,than I ever had in the appraisal
business.
John, how'd you get to whereyou are?
What's your background in thislittle?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
arena.
Lots of hard work and again,thanks so much for that.
I am not an appraiser, I'mactually a salesperson by trade.
But lucky enough, I was bornand raised here in the Tampa
area and my first father-in-lawand I've only had two.
My first father-in-law foundeda little company called Mortgage
Contracting Services and inthat arena I was doing
(01:20):
foreclosure sales for mortgagecompanies literally houses that
have gone into an REO status.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Back in 9, 10?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was after the 79 falling, so this is actually in
1985.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
John, you're not that old, I can tell you're not that
old.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I'm actually 56 years old, thank you very much.
Graduated from Plant HighSchool in 1986.
So we'll make sure we get thatplug in there too.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right, I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's when I started valuing houses was literally
while I was in high school thatthat company was founded and I
started inspecting houses anddoing foreclosure inspections
and determining the valuation ofthe disposition of the real
estate owned assets.
So that is where I really broke,you know, broke my teeth in
learning valuing properties andas a result of that background,
(02:03):
I never obtained my appraisallicense.
I just really leveraged thatknowledge into building
businesses.
So fast forward to about 2013,and I, with a group of four
other appraisers, we formed anational staff appraisal firm
and they don't carry sticks, notthose kind of staffs, but
(02:23):
employee appraisers, W-2employees, not contractors which
was the complete opposite ofwhat everyone in America was
doing from the appraisalstandpoint.
But it was an extremely,extremely wonderful venture
because we grew from a littleover $7 million in revenue our
first year to just under $20million in revenue in five years
(02:46):
nationally, and at that time wereached a point where we knew
we couldn't continue to growjust because of the dynamics of
what was going on in themarketplace and we're going to
talk a lot about that today, Iknow right.
So we joined a group calledOption, and Option is a global
valuation firm based out ofAustralia, and we found a very
like mindset with theirownership group in that in
(03:08):
Australia, in New Zealand,appraisals are delivered on
average within 24 hours of thetime that the order is placed.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, how do we get that here?
It boggled our mind the firsttime.
We saw it.
Right, we were the same way.
It's like disbelief.
There's no way this could behappening.
Well, guess what?
Fast forward, what?
Three years we've been withthem and we are literally on the
brink of being able to do theexact same thing.
Technology is what allows thisto come into place, and that's a
lot of the class that wetouched with the agents earlier.
(03:39):
The way we collect inspectiondata today, the way we're able
to analyze comparable sale datait's night and day to what it
was in the 80s or 90s or even inthe early 2000s.
It's completely different.
There's multiple companiesworking on the appraisal
modernization platforms and allthe things that are changing,
and I think probably the biggestimpact that we're going to see
(04:00):
isn't even here yet, because theforms that all of us have been
reading and that I'm teachingyour agents to decipher, they're
all going away.
That's right, they're all goingaway.
And with UAD, we're going tohave a completely different
valuation process that I'm goingto get to come out here and
teach all you guys again.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I'm very much looking forward to it.
Good stuff.
What do you think the timelineon that's looking like?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Sooner rather than later.
I think that it's going intotesting in 2025,.
Without a doubt and this isright on the Fannie Mae Freddie
Mac website, they talk a lotabout appraisal modernization.
This is one of their keyinitiatives is to speed up this
process.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And this really isn't new.
I mean it's new to America, butthey've been doing this in
Australia.
You said for a number of years.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Option employs over 800, we call them valuers in
Australia, but over 800appraisers in the country of
Australia that have been doing24-hour delivery since like 2017
, 2018, they rolled this out Wow.
The mortgage industry in thosecountries works completely
differently, but the valuationprocess at its core is the same.
(05:06):
You're selecting comparables,you're making adjustments.
At its core, it's exactly thesame.
We have different geographiesand topographies and those
things to deal with.
But, at the end of the day, it'scollateral risk.
Is the house worth it or not?
Is the credit buyer worth it ornot?
And that's what we're trying toget to as much uniformity in
that as we possibly can have?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Do you think it's driving the cost down per
appraisal?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
That's the goal.
The goal is to make it fasterand less expensive, to use the
correct adjectives Lessexpensive and faster, and just
as good, if not better, than theprior process.
Is that doable?
Um, I don't know.
Probably not.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I wouldn't think you know, when you have to leverage
the technology, you got to paythe developers.
You got to, you know, do allthis other stuff, you know
that's, that's, I think, thevalues.
I mean clearly the value isthere, but can you make it
cheaper?
Probably not.
I think it's the industryitself.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
It's going to take time.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, it will.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It will over a longer scope, maybe over a 10-year
period.
I think we'd probably see.
But the immediate think aboutit.
The appraisers, the lenders,everyone has to
re-infrastructure themselves forwhat's coming, relearn all this
, new processes, new proceduresand underwriting and quality
control and pre-close,post-close validation.
(06:30):
It impacts all these areas.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So it's not something that's going to happen
overnight.
I have anxiety just listeningto all of that right now.
I'm sorry, me too.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
That's why I like sales.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, exactly Me too.
Oh, so there's a lot going on.
Let me ask you something I knowthat we have had is this
mechanism or this proceduretechnique you guys are using is
it going to help us with?
I hear we have a severeshortage of the old-fashioned
appraisers, that it's difficultnow for a new appraiser to get
(07:01):
certified under the old system.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, so that has been a major hindrance to our
profession for a number of years.
And, as we talked about briefly, both of my children are
appraisers, my daughter'scertified.
My son will be certified very,very shortly and it took Alexis
seven years from start to finishto get to her certification.
Now she did give me my grandsonin between.
That time right finish to getto her certification.
(07:26):
Now she did.
She did give me my grandson inbetween that time right.
But she had to graduate college.
She had to do two years oftraining, you know multiple
hoops to drop through, 1500hours of tenured supervised work
that had to be signed off by acertified appraiser before she
could even sit for the exam.
So if she didn't have all thoselife things in the way two-year
(07:48):
process start to finish tobecome an appraiser.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Two years, two years and I think you can get a real
estate license in about 24 hours.
I mean literally six.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Close, yeah, I mean you know better than I do and
I'll bite my tongue on that one.
But yeah, and that's, listen,brass tacks.
That's a lot of theconsternation I guess would be a
good word to use sometimes isthat the appraiser is spending
thousands and thousands andthousands of hours of training
(08:19):
before they're allowed to evensign a report.
Even sign a report, and thenthe rebuttal or they're
correcting you know, hierarchyis someone that took a 60 hour
class and has been working forfour weeks in the real estate
business, right.
So I think if we all just kindof understand those dynamics and
where everybody kind of sits inthe transaction, then it allows
(08:42):
us all to maybe massage that alittle better maybe handle that
situation a little better.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, like I heard you say in the class today, you
know realtors and appraisers andlenders.
We all need each other, that'sright.
And the appraisers more or lesslook to the realtor to validate
what what they're doing.
You know, because they do knowwhat they're doing.
Obviously they've spentthousands of hours there, but
sometimes they just you know,when that agent, that listing
(09:08):
agent, comes up and says, hey,these are the comps I've used.
Uh, take them, don't take them,whatever you want to do, but it
just adds a little bit morevalidation to hey, this is the
number that they originally cameup with.
And I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I do, I do too and and I literally was telling you
guys right before we started theshow is, last phone call I took
from an agent was low appraisal.
Well, we're starting to seemore of those.
I suspect we will see more andwe've seen them in markets and
different things in theappraisers.
I'm sorry, the agent's thoughtprocess was a little scary, but
(09:42):
I can see where they would havegotten.
There was, I took the two compsand I divided it by two and it
did not come out to the squarefoot price.
And I whoa, there's a lot moregoing on than that.
And I said by the way, they'rejust finishing up an appraisal
class, why aren't you in there?
She said well, I just got thebad news that the appraisal came
back in.
I said well, you might want tobe out in front of it, but we'll
(10:04):
talk about that in a little bit, before the show's over.
We want to talk about how youwould coach an agent to hey, we
got a bad appraisal.
What do we do here?
Or I think what you're going totell us, if memory serves me
right, is what you do before youget the bad appraisal.
What do you want from?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
the agent yeah, that you know I believe in any
anything in life, right.
The more proactive you can be,the better you're going to be
able to control the result,right.
So, understanding when you havea tricky transaction, right.
When you have a tricky property, when you have a complex
property, being aware of thatand understanding that that's
going to maybe pose somecomplexities that the normal
(10:42):
cookie cutter house may not pose, you need to position for that,
you need to do the research andmake sure that it's going to
take extra time.
There's just no way around it.
If you have a waterfrontproperty on acreage with dock
and davit and lifts and adetached garage and we have to
account for all those items andthe research is going to take a
(11:04):
long time to get to the end ofall those items, matching them
up with all the other sales.
But that's literally theprocess that each of us have to
go through.
So a large part of the trainingis communicating with the
appraiser in the language thatthe appraiser is used, of
communicating in, and that's whywe talk a lot about guidelines
(11:24):
and bracketing and terms likethat, because that's what the
appraiser has to do andsometimes on the real estate
side we don't know that.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
We don't talk that way, and so that's what I found
very interesting about thepresentation I went through is
learn to talk like an appraiser.
Get on their playing field andyou'll do so much better.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Open up that communication speak.
You know the same thing we talkabout.
When you go meet a buyer orseller, first thing you need to
know is how do you like tocommunicate?
Are you a texter?
Are you a phone call?
Are you an emailer?
They speak a differentvernacular altogether.
I love my appraisers but youguys, most of them, are bean
counters and you've got to talkin bean counter talk, not sales
(12:06):
talk.
Sales talk is like, hey, let'sgo grab a burger at Chili's and
we'll talk about that.
Bean counters.
Don't do that.
I know I had an appraiser in oneof my companies and we had an
appraisal department andliterally his name was Bob and
Bob walked around all day longwith his head buried down into
an open binder.
All day long he would walk ineverybody's office and ask
questions.
I remember when I first startedI was in the commercial side
(12:27):
and I talked to this experiencedcommercial agent that I knew
and I said these appraisers callme all the time.
I got so many calls, do Ireally need to call him back?
And he grabbed me, literally,put his hands on me.
He goes.
You call them back every singletime.
They call you and you give themthe information.
I was doing a lot of leasesthat's not reported deals
transactions they needed to knowwhat was going on.
(12:48):
They needed my information andI can tell you.
By forming that relationshipwith them, it certainly didn't
hurt anything.
Now an appraiser is never goingto because they, like you, give
you a better appraisal than not.
So agents, if an appraiser evercalls you, call them back.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Please, please, please.
What you guys are saying is1,000% correct.
One the appraiser has to verifyevery comparable sale that they
put in a report.
And verify doesn't mean thatthey can just look at it in MLS
and think it exists.
If they can't see the closingsheet, they're going to call an
agent.
If they can't determine whatthe financial concessions were,
if there were any kind of thingwhere the recorded value is
(13:34):
different than what's reportedin MLS, we have to call and
physically verify all thatinformation.
So, please, please, please, yes, answer the phone.
That's why we're calling.
And then the other thing thatAm so please, please, please,
yes, answer the phone.
That's why we're calling.
And then the other thing thatAmir alluded to agents interact
with buyers and sellers ahundred times more often than
appraisers.
(13:54):
Do you understand buyer andseller motivations more often
than not in that local marketmuch better than the appraiser
does?
The appraiser may haveappraised in your neighborhood
five or 10 times because theyhave experience.
You probably sold 50 houses inthat area during that time.
You have 10 times the knowledgeof that particular marketplace.
So you're not upstaging theappraiser.
(14:17):
By sharing your informationYou're more validating to the
appraiser that you understandthat market and you know the
intricacies of that market andyou're going to try to assist
them in seeing that I want toback up to something you said.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It was perplexing to me was real estate agents are
really supposed to answer theirphone.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think we just started talking about that in
the past couple of months youknow, with these new changes in
the real estate world.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Wait a minute.
There's been some changes andyou're supposed to answer your
phone and be aware of thechanges.
Crazy concepts going on heretoday, guys.
So what's going on with thetrending market?
So I see stuff I just read.
I get the daily whatever fromFlorida Realtors.
It gives me five bullet pointsevery day.
It says price is still tickingup.
(15:05):
I find real estate to behyperlocal, I see, you know.
So when I read national stuffthat doesn't mean anything to
Florida.
And then when I particularlyread Florida, sometimes maybe
that doesn't mean anything toClearwater I can tell you
there's probably some homes outin some zip codes on the beaches
right now that don't feel liketheir value is moving up.
But do you find that we'restill moving up in values in our
(15:26):
marketplace?
The Tampa Bay MSA.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
As a market as a whole?
Yeah, no, I didn't think so.
No, not as a whole.
But I will clearly say thatthere are pockets that have
increased and there are pocketsthat have decreased.
So pick your pocket wisely, inmy humble opinion.
It's pretty stagnant.
We're pretty much hoveringright now and we all know how
low the transactions have beenand why we're stagnant.
(15:52):
But the reduction in rates look, the last rate cut that had
been baked in five months before.
That's why we didn't see anydrop from there.
We all knew that.
But mortgage applications areup.
Our appraisal orders are up 25%since the day after the
announcement.
That's awesome.
The general public reads thepaper.
(16:13):
The general public are not realestate professionals like we
are.
They read online articles andthey're like, hey, the Fed cut,
the rates are dropped.
Well, we know what was going onwith that already and in
November they're going to dropthem again.
So look towards the end ofOctober and, amazingly, the
rates might start dropping inadvance of that, right, what a
(16:35):
surprise.
So again, we have to be realestate professionals and more
than just our area of expertise,sometimes to kind of plug all
this stuff together.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I know I joke a little bit, but is there?
What you just said was reallyinteresting.
Appraisal orders are up.
I can get national data onmortgage applications.
Is that a national statisticthat we can get, or is that an
industry something?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
you guys have.
No, I mean, that's my secret.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Could you come on here every week and tell us
where we're at with?
That please, because I thinkthat's you can say one thing
about mortgage applications, butwhen you tell me that appraisal
orders are up 25%, that's thedeal's already gotten down to
pretty much closing and that's agreat sign they're ordering
title and appraisal is a verygood sign, right.
Yeah, when they start spendingmoney Exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
That's exactly correct.
So that's why we don't I don't,we in our appraisal business.
Of course we track, you know,application volume up and down,
but our volume is more whatwe're focused on, especially the
full appraisals, the volume offull appraisals, because you
know part of what's going onthrough modernization and what
(17:43):
they're trying to prevent iswhat we had during 2019 and 2021
, you know two to three weekappraisals.
The market never wants to seethat happen again and if we get
down to a 4.5% interest rateagain, we could especially in
our area, we could easily seethat kind of volume happen again
right, we talk about this allthe time.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
When deals, you know it's like a bouncing ball.
The ball goes up, the ball goesdown.
We had an excess sell of unitsin 20 and 21, and now we're
feeling the pain from that.
I mean, we're only speculatingwhen we say this, but I suspect
deals are going to start tickingup in 25.
Is that your Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Positively, there's no doubt.
As the interest rate goes down,more people will have better
affordability.
You know what happened andbeing a native to me, I'll admit
it very bluntly Like we doubledin value in four years in this
market.
Yeah right, you can't doubleagain.
No-transcript.
(19:03):
People put money into thesehouses when they bought it.
They didn't buy it on credit,they bought it with cash.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And that's a really good point, guys, when agents
that did make it through 2008, 9, 10, that saw that you know
that ugly market which, by theway, we've had a rough year or
so, 18 months.
It wasn't anything like what wesaw in 9 and 10.
Oh no, y'all don't think that'scoming again, but you just said
the value and appreciation wehave.
(19:29):
That's why this market isn'tcomparable to 2008, 9, and 10.
Most of the people that haveowned their real estate more
than 24 months have equity inthese units.
So we're not going to see thebig short sale market and we're
not going to see a bigforeclosure market.
Amir and I did a presentationabout a month ago and we showed
that agents I don't know whatthey're getting text messages
from wholesalers, whatever thatis.
(19:50):
I'm still not sure what awholesaler is, but I hear that a
lot saying foreclosures up.
I want to buy foreclosures.
Foreclosures are less than 1%right now.
I'm going to focus on the 99%of the market.
I don't know about you.
I don't want to go after the 1%.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, exactly, you know we we started to see.
You know I we base some of ourinformation off of the calls we
get.
You know, we at CharlesRuttenberg Realty, as I'm sure
you know, we have about 10%, uh,10% of the agents in Canela's,
and in Tampa are our agents.
(20:24):
So when we pick up the phone andwe get the constant question
over and over again and Iprobably had the same question
about short sales, at least overa two-week period so I was like
, am I missing something here?
Are we going to start gettinginto some short sales?
But then it just stoppedInteresting.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I suspected somebody trying to sell them some packet
on how to learn the short saleexpert.
And, by the way, you don't everwant to be involved in short
sales.
Unless you, that's an uglymarket to be in and I can tell
you Painful process right there.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I concur with you guys 100% that we're a little
bit stagnant becauseaffordability is hard.
We all know what's going on.
We can all see that in themarket, the higher the price, a
little bit more days on market.
It just is what it is right now.
Cost of entry is tough but asthe cost of money reduces and as
the younger generation getsmore time on job and they make
(21:15):
more money, those things aregoing to start coming together
again, Come back together andthey're going to start growing
again.
Real estate should onlyappreciate like 3% to 5% a year
If it's appreciating faster thanthat you can't support it long
term, right.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
If it keeps up with my inflation, I feel, okay,
that's my hedge, right.
That's how I'm hedging.
I don't have gold, so I'mhedging with my homes, all right
.
So there's two points.
I know Byron's given us thewrap-up over there.
We're going to be done beforewe know it.
Here We've got about fiveminutes.
Let's talk about the elephantin the room.
(21:51):
What?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
do you think this little storm that blew through
here is going to do to ourmarket?
Wow, it's a tough, you knowthat's a tough one.
We, our heart goes out toeveryone and the impact you know
, being a native, a lot of usjust I think we got complacent.
I agree, I think there's a lotof complacency.
Storm, weary, right.
I mean, we've been through somany.
I remember 2004,.
We survived four and six weekslike nothing, and every other
(22:17):
weekend.
We were right in downtownClearwater and my house never
got an inch of water or anywhereclose.
So I think a lot of us thathave been here a while, I think
that's part and we didn't putour cars away and we didn't take
the boat out, and you know someof that and lift our furniture
and lift our clothes down andyeah all kinds of things.
So, look, yesterday Ivolunteered with the pro group,
with the affiliate group and therealtors, and we went out and
(22:39):
we volunteered and cleaned somehouses with Brandy Gabbard and
some other officials.
We were in Riviera Estates, overon Sun Isle, and, look, every
single house on that street isgutted and everyone in that
neighborhood has to be gutted.
So you know, from an appraisalstandpoint it's almost like a
(23:00):
sinkhole situation where youhave this claim and then you
have to remediate the claim.
And once the claim isremediated, from an appraisal
standpoint, what we're trying todo is only use those other
remediated sales as comparables.
And we do that as often aspossible, understanding that in
(23:21):
some circumstances we may notonly we may have to use some
that are not that type, but fromthe core that have been through
that remediation process, wewant to set a predominant value
or a mid-range, you know, anaverage value, and from that
we're going to look at thenon-impacted homes to kind of
(23:42):
determine what we think theadjustment would be between the
two, right?
So getting there is hard is is,is the?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I know this is a hard question to answer and it
probably didn't have a black orwhite answer.
But once a home has flooded,the stigma that goes with that,
that, the disclosure on that anduh, you know from what I see a
home that gets three or fourfeet of water in it.
You know that's, that's adisaster for the homeowner.
It feet of water in it you knowthat's a disaster for the
(24:13):
homeowner.
It really is.
Most of them don't have floodinsurance either, but I find it
to be remediated and be veryclean.
Cut to me.
I can come back in and seedrywall was taken out.
You know, maybe some studs hadto be replaced, flooring's been
replaced, electrical has beenreplaced, maybe a couple ACs.
I think my initial feeling isthat can be made whole,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
And just as good as new.
I think if you did a study ofsinkhole homes in Hernando
County and Spring Hill, that'sexactly what you would find out,
because that's my experienceand I've been doing it 31 years.
Once they get remediated andthey look, act, taste, feel just
like everything else on thestreet, the buyer stigma goes
away.
Maybe the first one, maybe, youknow.
But once the market gets goingagain and market acceptance,
(25:00):
that first one gets bought, thatsecond one gets bought in that
same range.
That's it.
There's no more stigma.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, we're good.
I actually had an agent thatwas an appraiser for me as well
in Spring Hill a decade or soago.
He told me that they wereactually given a point or two
premium for repaired sinkholesversus one that had never had
one.
He said these are sitting ducksthat haven't had one yet, the
ones that have already beenrepaired and grouted, and
everything.
We're actually giving them alittle love.
(25:28):
There's a train of thought.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, there it is Exactly giving them a little
love.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
There's a train of thought yeah, there it is
exactly Now.
I don't know if we can say thatwith flood, because you know
there could be another one rightbehind this one and you could
get flooded again.
If I'm going to get floodedagain, though, I hope it happens
before I remediate.
Oh yeah.
It makes the water flow throughso much easier once the drywall
is already out.
I'm sorry.
Listen, I think this is going tobe a conversation, because I
(25:53):
have four questions here and Ididn't get to any of them.
I think this is a conversationthat we could certainly have
again with some additionalpodcasts.
I'm hoping that maybe we canget you to jump on our broker
updates, maybe once a month orsomething, and share with the.
We're doing some Zoom updateswith our agents that have seemed
to be pretty popular, because Iwould love for you to share
(26:13):
that little inside industry stat.
You have that about how manyappraisals have been ordered.
That is an awesome number towork with, guys.
If you didn't pick up anythingfrom this, 25% appraisal orders
are up.
That's strong.
You're not going to know aboutit, though, if you don't get any
appraisals ordered, so go talkto people that need to buy or
sell.
We're going to have to wrapthis thing up, amir.
(26:35):
Final thoughts.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, hey, john, I really appreciate you stopping
in today.
I mean, your class, like I saidin the beginning, was amazing
and you know I hope that we'llbe able to get you back.
You know, we have one coming upthe end of October where we go
over at Pro.
We have probably a good 50, 60of our agents that come in in
person and then probably another200 on Zoom or whatnot.
It'd be great to have you thereif you have the time.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That's a good point.
We'd love to have you on ourpanel for that one, if you can
do it.
We're trying to nail him downhere while we got him on air.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
That's right.
He can't score him on us toobad.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You got a final thought you want to close out
with John.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
No, I listen, I appreciate the partnership.
I've been working with CharlesRuttenberg here for darn near a
decade through the affiliateprogram at Perot, so I just I
appreciate y'all's partnership.
You know we, from an appraisalstandpoint, as a company, we
have always thought about itjust a little differently.
Right, we've always wanted tobe your partner.
We don't want to be adversarial, we want to work together
(27:31):
because at the end of the day ittakes all of us right.
It takes all of us to besuccessful and we know we can't
have a successful firm long-termif we don't have successful
relationship with the agentsthat are in the field making it
happen every day.
So we will continue to do thatand I appreciate the invite, I
appreciate the kind words andyou can count on me being there.
I love nothing better than theopportunity to give my humble
(27:53):
opinion.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I appreciate that, john, we do appreciate it so
much, and you're right it does.
You got to really be tired inwith your industry partners to
make this work.
Single agents by yourself areon an island and that's not a
good place to be.
That's right.
All right, we're going to goahead and wrap.
Hey, good morning everybody.
It is Mike and Amir with you onthis week's edition of the
Charles Ruttenberg RealityPodcast, or better known as Golf
Coast to Space Coast.
That's right, Welcome.
What's going on, Amir?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You know, I just sat in this awesome class where John
Barcelo joined us and gave the,like you said, one of the best
appraisal classes I've ever beenin.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I told you it would be that good.
I really tried to get heretoday.
I was actually out buying stormhurricane relief supplies and I
got a little jammed up.
But we do want to introduce ourspecial guest today, john.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Thank you, gentlemen, I appreciate it and thanks so
much for the kind words.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely.
You've earned every bit of them.
I can tell you, john, I've beendoing this a long time and,
like I said, I learned more fromyour appraisal class about a
year and a half two years ago,than I ever had in the appraisal
business.
John, how'd you get to whereyou are?
What's your background in thislittle?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
arena.
Lots of hard work and again,thanks so much for that.
I am not an appraiser, I'mactually a salesperson by trade.
But lucky enough, I was bornand raised here in the Tampa
area and my first father-in-lawand I've only had two.
My first father-in-law foundeda little company called Mortgage
Contracting Services and inthat arena I was doing
(01:20):
foreclosure sales for mortgagecompanies literally houses that
have gone into an REO status.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Back in 9, 10?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was after the 79 falling, so this is actually in
1985.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
John, you're not that old, I can tell you're not that
old.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I'm actually 56 years old, thank you very much.
Graduated from Plant HighSchool in 1986.
So we'll make sure we get thatplug in there too.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right, I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's when I started valuing houses was literally
while I was in high school thatthat company was founded and I
started inspecting houses anddoing foreclosure inspections
and determining the valuation ofthe disposition of the real
estate owned assets.
So that is where I really broke,you know, broke my teeth in
learning valuing properties andas a result of that background,
(02:03):
I never obtained my appraisallicense.
I just really leveraged thatknowledge into building
businesses.
So fast forward to about 2013,and I, with a group of four
other appraisers, we formed anational staff appraisal firm
and they don't carry sticks, notthose kind of staffs, but
(02:23):
employee appraisers, W-2employees, not contractors which
was the complete opposite ofwhat everyone in America was
doing from the appraisalstandpoint.
But it was an extremely,extremely wonderful venture
because we grew from a littleover $7 million in revenue our
first year to just under $20million in revenue in five years
(02:46):
nationally, and at that time wereached a point where we knew
we couldn't continue to growjust because of the dynamics of
what was going on in themarketplace and we're going to
talk a lot about that today, Iknow right.
So we joined a group calledOption, and Option is a global
valuation firm based out ofAustralia, and we found a very
like mindset with theirownership group in that in
(03:08):
Australia, in New Zealand,appraisals are delivered on
average within 24 hours of thetime that the order is placed.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, how do we get that here?
It boggled our mind the firsttime.
We saw it.
Right, we were the same way.
It's like disbelief.
There's no way this could behappening.
Well, guess what?
Fast forward, what?
Three years we've been withthem and we are literally on the
brink of being able to do theexact same thing.
Technology is what allows thisto come into place, and that's a
lot of the class that wetouched with the agents earlier.
(03:39):
The way we collect inspectiondata today, the way we're able
to analyze comparable sale datait's night and day to what it
was in the 80s or 90s or even inthe early 2000s.
It's completely different.
There's multiple companiesworking on the appraisal
modernization platforms and allthe things that are changing,
and I think probably the biggestimpact that we're going to see
(04:00):
isn't even here yet, because theforms that all of us have been
reading and that I'm teachingyour agents to decipher, they're
all going away.
That's right, they're all goingaway.
And with UAD, we're going tohave a completely different
valuation process that I'm goingto get to come out here and
teach all you guys again.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I'm very much looking forward to it.
Good stuff.
What do you think the timelineon that's looking like?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Sooner rather than later.
I think that it's going intotesting in 2025,.
Without a doubt and this isright on the Fannie Mae Freddie
Mac website, they talk a lotabout appraisal modernization.
This is one of their keyinitiatives is to speed up this
process.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And this really isn't new.
I mean it's new to America, butthey've been doing this in
Australia.
You said for a number of years.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Option employs over 800, we call them valuers in
Australia, but over 800appraisers in the country of
Australia that have been doing24-hour delivery since like 2017
, 2018, they rolled this out Wow.
The mortgage industry in thosecountries works completely
differently, but the valuationprocess at its core is the same.
(05:06):
You're selecting comparables,you're making adjustments.
At its core, it's exactly thesame.
We have different geographiesand topographies and those
things to deal with.
But, at the end of the day, it'scollateral risk.
Is the house worth it or not?
Is the credit buyer worth it ornot?
And that's what we're trying toget to as much uniformity in
that as we possibly can have?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Do you think it's driving the cost down per
appraisal?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
That's the goal.
The goal is to make it fasterand less expensive, to use the
correct adjectives Lessexpensive and faster, and just
as good, if not better, than theprior process.
Is that doable?
Um, I don't know.
Probably not.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I wouldn't think you know, when you have to leverage
the technology, you got to paythe developers.
You got to, you know, do allthis other stuff, you know
that's, that's, I think, thevalues.
I mean clearly the value isthere, but can you make it
cheaper?
Probably not.
I think it's the industryitself.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
It's going to take time.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, it will.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It will over a longer scope, maybe over a 10-year
period.
I think we'd probably see.
But the immediate think aboutit.
The appraisers, the lenders,everyone has to
re-infrastructure themselves forwhat's coming, relearn all this
, new processes, new proceduresand underwriting and quality
control and pre-close,post-close validation.
(06:30):
It impacts all these areas.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So it's not something that's going to happen
overnight.
I have anxiety just listeningto all of that right now.
I'm sorry, me too.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
That's why I like sales.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, exactly Me too.
Oh, so there's a lot going on.
Let me ask you something I knowthat we have had is this
mechanism or this proceduretechnique you guys are using is
it going to help us with?
I hear we have a severeshortage of the old-fashioned
appraisers, that it's difficultnow for a new appraiser to get
(07:01):
certified under the old system.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, so that has been a major hindrance to our
profession for a number of years.
And, as we talked about briefly, both of my children are
appraisers, my daughter'scertified.
My son will be certified very,very shortly and it took Alexis
seven years from start to finishto get to her certification.
Now she did give me my grandsonin between.
That time right finish to getto her certification.
(07:26):
Now she did.
She did give me my grandson inbetween that time right.
But she had to graduate college.
She had to do two years oftraining, you know multiple
hoops to drop through, 1500hours of tenured supervised work
that had to be signed off by acertified appraiser before she
could even sit for the exam.
So if she didn't have all thoselife things in the way two-year
(07:48):
process start to finish tobecome an appraiser.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Two years, two years and I think you can get a real
estate license in about 24 hours.
I mean literally six.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Close, yeah, I mean you know better than I do and
I'll bite my tongue on that one.
But yeah, and that's, listen,brass tacks.
That's a lot of theconsternation I guess would be a
good word to use sometimes isthat the appraiser is spending
thousands and thousands andthousands of hours of training
(08:19):
before they're allowed to evensign a report.
Even sign a report, and thenthe rebuttal or they're
correcting you know, hierarchyis someone that took a 60 hour
class and has been working forfour weeks in the real estate
business, right.
So I think if we all just kindof understand those dynamics and
where everybody kind of sits inthe transaction, then it allows
(08:42):
us all to maybe massage that alittle better maybe handle that
situation a little better.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, like I heard you say in the class today, you
know realtors and appraisers andlenders.
We all need each other, that'sright.
And the appraisers more or lesslook to the realtor to validate
what what they're doing.
You know, because they do knowwhat they're doing.
Obviously they've spentthousands of hours there, but
sometimes they just you know,when that agent, that listing
(09:08):
agent, comes up and says, hey,these are the comps I've used.
Uh, take them, don't take them,whatever you want to do, but it
just adds a little bit morevalidation to hey, this is the
number that they originally cameup with.
And I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I do, I do too and and I literally was telling you
guys right before we started theshow is, last phone call I took
from an agent was low appraisal.
Well, we're starting to seemore of those.
I suspect we will see more andwe've seen them in markets and
different things in theappraisers.
I'm sorry, the agent's thoughtprocess was a little scary, but
(09:42):
I can see where they would havegotten.
There was, I took the two compsand I divided it by two and it
did not come out to the squarefoot price.
And I whoa, there's a lot moregoing on than that.
And I said by the way, they'rejust finishing up an appraisal
class, why aren't you in there?
She said well, I just got thebad news that the appraisal came
back in.
I said well, you might want tobe out in front of it, but we'll
(10:04):
talk about that in a little bit, before the show's over.
We want to talk about how youwould coach an agent to hey, we
got a bad appraisal.
What do we do here?
Or I think what you're going totell us, if memory serves me
right, is what you do before youget the bad appraisal.
What do you want from?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
the agent yeah, that you know I believe in any
anything in life, right.
The more proactive you can be,the better you're going to be
able to control the result,right.
So, understanding when you havea tricky transaction, right.
When you have a tricky property, when you have a complex
property, being aware of thatand understanding that that's
going to maybe pose somecomplexities that the normal
(10:42):
cookie cutter house may not pose, you need to position for that,
you need to do the research andmake sure that it's going to
take extra time.
There's just no way around it.
If you have a waterfrontproperty on acreage with dock
and davit and lifts and adetached garage and we have to
account for all those items andthe research is going to take a
(11:04):
long time to get to the end ofall those items, matching them
up with all the other sales.
But that's literally theprocess that each of us have to
go through.
So a large part of the trainingis communicating with the
appraiser in the language thatthe appraiser is used, of
communicating in, and that's whywe talk a lot about guidelines
(11:24):
and bracketing and terms likethat, because that's what the
appraiser has to do andsometimes on the real estate
side we don't know that.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
We don't talk that way, and so that's what I found
very interesting about thepresentation I went through is
learn to talk like an appraiser.
Get on their playing field andyou'll do so much better.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Open up that communication speak.
You know the same thing we talkabout.
When you go meet a buyer orseller, first thing you need to
know is how do you like tocommunicate?
Are you a texter?
Are you a phone call?
Are you an emailer?
They speak a differentvernacular altogether.
I love my appraisers but youguys, most of them, are bean
counters and you've got to talkin bean counter talk, not sales
(12:06):
talk.
Sales talk is like, hey, let'sgo grab a burger at Chili's and
we'll talk about that.
Bean counters.
Don't do that.
I know I had an appraiser in oneof my companies and we had an
appraisal department andliterally his name was Bob and
Bob walked around all day longwith his head buried down into
an open binder.
All day long he would walk ineverybody's office and ask
questions.
I remember when I first startedI was in the commercial side
(12:27):
and I talked to this experiencedcommercial agent that I knew
and I said these appraisers callme all the time.
I got so many calls, do Ireally need to call him back?
And he grabbed me, literally,put his hands on me.
He goes.
You call them back every singletime.
They call you and you give themthe information.
I was doing a lot of leasesthat's not reported deals
transactions they needed to knowwhat was going on.
(12:48):
They needed my information andI can tell you.
By forming that relationshipwith them, it certainly didn't
hurt anything.
Now an appraiser is never goingto because they, like you, give
you a better appraisal than not.
So agents, if an appraiser evercalls you, call them back.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Please, please, please.
What you guys are saying is1,000% correct.
One the appraiser has to verifyevery comparable sale that they
put in a report.
And verify doesn't mean thatthey can just look at it in MLS
and think it exists.
If they can't see the closingsheet, they're going to call an
agent.
If they can't determine whatthe financial concessions were,
if there were any kind of thingwhere the recorded value is
(13:34):
different than what's reportedin MLS, we have to call and
physically verify all thatinformation.
So, please, please, please, yes, answer the phone.
That's why we're calling.
And then the other thing thatAm so please, please, please,
yes, answer the phone.
That's why we're calling.
And then the other thing thatAmir alluded to agents interact
with buyers and sellers ahundred times more often than
appraisers.
(13:54):
Do you understand buyer andseller motivations more often
than not in that local marketmuch better than the appraiser
does?
The appraiser may haveappraised in your neighborhood
five or 10 times because theyhave experience.
You probably sold 50 houses inthat area during that time.
You have 10 times the knowledgeof that particular marketplace.
So you're not upstaging theappraiser.
(14:17):
By sharing your informationYou're more validating to the
appraiser that you understandthat market and you know the
intricacies of that market andyou're going to try to assist
them in seeing that I want toback up to something you said.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It was perplexing to me was real estate agents are
really supposed to answer theirphone.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think we just started talking about that in
the past couple of months youknow, with these new changes in
the real estate world.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Wait a minute.
There's been some changes andyou're supposed to answer your
phone and be aware of thechanges.
Crazy concepts going on heretoday, guys.
So what's going on with thetrending market?
So I see stuff I just read.
I get the daily whatever fromFlorida Realtors.
It gives me five bullet pointsevery day.
It says price is still tickingup.
(15:05):
I find real estate to behyperlocal, I see, you know.
So when I read national stuffthat doesn't mean anything to
Florida.
And then when I particularlyread Florida, sometimes maybe
that doesn't mean anything toClearwater I can tell you
there's probably some homes outin some zip codes on the beaches
right now that don't feel liketheir value is moving up.
But do you find that we'restill moving up in values in our
(15:26):
marketplace?
The Tampa Bay MSA.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
As a market as a whole?
Yeah, no, I didn't think so.
No, not as a whole.
But I will clearly say thatthere are pockets that have
increased and there are pocketsthat have decreased.
So pick your pocket wisely, inmy humble opinion.
It's pretty stagnant.
We're pretty much hoveringright now and we all know how
low the transactions have beenand why we're stagnant.
(15:52):
But the reduction in rates look, the last rate cut that had
been baked in five months before.
That's why we didn't see anydrop from there.
We all knew that.
But mortgage applications areup.
Our appraisal orders are up 25%since the day after the
announcement.
That's awesome.
The general public reads thepaper.
(16:13):
The general public are not realestate professionals like we
are.
They read online articles andthey're like, hey, the Fed cut,
the rates are dropped.
Well, we know what was going onwith that already and in
November they're going to dropthem again.
So look towards the end ofOctober and, amazingly, the
rates might start dropping inadvance of that, right, what a
(16:35):
surprise.
So again, we have to be realestate professionals and more
than just our area of expertise,sometimes to kind of plug all
this stuff together.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I know I joke a little bit, but is there?
What you just said was reallyinteresting.
Appraisal orders are up.
I can get national data onmortgage applications.
Is that a national statisticthat we can get, or is that an
industry something?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
you guys have.
No, I mean, that's my secret.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Could you come on here every week and tell us
where we're at with?
That please, because I thinkthat's you can say one thing
about mortgage applications, butwhen you tell me that appraisal
orders are up 25%, that's thedeal's already gotten down to
pretty much closing and that's agreat sign they're ordering
title and appraisal is a verygood sign, right.
Yeah, when they start spendingmoney Exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
That's exactly correct.
So that's why we don't I don't,we in our appraisal business.
Of course we track, you know,application volume up and down,
but our volume is more whatwe're focused on, especially the
full appraisals, the volume offull appraisals, because you
know part of what's going onthrough modernization and what
(17:43):
they're trying to prevent iswhat we had during 2019 and 2021
, you know two to three weekappraisals.
The market never wants to seethat happen again and if we get
down to a 4.5% interest rateagain, we could especially in
our area, we could easily seethat kind of volume happen again
right, we talk about this allthe time.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
When deals, you know it's like a bouncing ball.
The ball goes up, the ball goesdown.
We had an excess sell of unitsin 20 and 21, and now we're
feeling the pain from that.
I mean, we're only speculatingwhen we say this, but I suspect
deals are going to start tickingup in 25.
Is that your Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Positively, there's no doubt.
As the interest rate goes down,more people will have better
affordability.
You know what happened andbeing a native to me, I'll admit
it very bluntly Like we doubledin value in four years in this
market.
Yeah right, you can't doubleagain.
No-transcript.
(19:03):
People put money into thesehouses when they bought it.
They didn't buy it on credit,they bought it with cash.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And that's a really good point, guys, when agents
that did make it through 2008, 9, 10, that saw that you know
that ugly market which, by theway, we've had a rough year or
so, 18 months.
It wasn't anything like what wesaw in 9 and 10.
Oh no, y'all don't think that'scoming again, but you just said
the value and appreciation wehave.
(19:29):
That's why this market isn'tcomparable to 2008, 9, and 10.
Most of the people that haveowned their real estate more
than 24 months have equity inthese units.
So we're not going to see thebig short sale market and we're
not going to see a bigforeclosure market.
Amir and I did a presentationabout a month ago and we showed
that agents I don't know whatthey're getting text messages
from wholesalers, whatever thatis.
(19:50):
I'm still not sure what awholesaler is, but I hear that a
lot saying foreclosures up.
I want to buy foreclosures.
Foreclosures are less than 1%right now.
I'm going to focus on the 99%of the market.
I don't know about you.
I don't want to go after the 1%.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, exactly, you know we we started to see.
You know I we base some of ourinformation off of the calls we
get.
You know, we at CharlesRuttenberg Realty, as I'm sure
you know, we have about 10%, uh,10% of the agents in Canela's,
and in Tampa are our agents.
(20:24):
So when we pick up the phone andwe get the constant question
over and over again and Iprobably had the same question
about short sales, at least overa two-week period so I was like
, am I missing something here?
Are we going to start gettinginto some short sales?
But then it just stoppedInteresting.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I suspected somebody trying to sell them some packet
on how to learn the short saleexpert.
And, by the way, you don't everwant to be involved in short
sales.
Unless you, that's an uglymarket to be in and I can tell
you Painful process right there.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I concur with you guys 100% that we're a little
bit stagnant becauseaffordability is hard.
We all know what's going on.
We can all see that in themarket, the higher the price, a
little bit more days on market.
It just is what it is right now.
Cost of entry is tough but asthe cost of money reduces and as
the younger generation getsmore time on job and they make
(21:15):
more money, those things aregoing to start coming together
again, Come back together andthey're going to start growing
again.
Real estate should onlyappreciate like 3% to 5% a year
If it's appreciating faster thanthat you can't support it long
term, right.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
If it keeps up with my inflation, I feel, okay,
that's my hedge, right.
That's how I'm hedging.
I don't have gold, so I'mhedging with my homes, all right
.
So there's two points.
I know Byron's given us thewrap-up over there.
We're going to be done beforewe know it.
Here We've got about fiveminutes.
Let's talk about the elephantin the room.
(21:51):
What?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
do you think this little storm that blew through
here is going to do to ourmarket?
Wow, it's a tough, you knowthat's a tough one.
We, our heart goes out toeveryone and the impact you know
, being a native, a lot of usjust I think we got complacent.
I agree, I think there's a lotof complacency.
Storm, weary, right.
I mean, we've been through somany.
I remember 2004,.
We survived four and six weekslike nothing, and every other
(22:17):
weekend.
We were right in downtownClearwater and my house never
got an inch of water or anywhereclose.
So I think a lot of us thathave been here a while, I think
that's part and we didn't putour cars away and we didn't take
the boat out, and you know someof that and lift our furniture
and lift our clothes down andyeah all kinds of things.
So, look, yesterday Ivolunteered with the pro group,
with the affiliate group and therealtors, and we went out and
(22:39):
we volunteered and cleaned somehouses with Brandy Gabbard and
some other officials.
We were in Riviera Estates, overon Sun Isle, and, look, every
single house on that street isgutted and everyone in that
neighborhood has to be gutted.
So you know, from an appraisalstandpoint it's almost like a
(23:00):
sinkhole situation where youhave this claim and then you
have to remediate the claim.
And once the claim isremediated, from an appraisal
standpoint, what we're trying todo is only use those other
remediated sales as comparables.
And we do that as often aspossible, understanding that in
(23:21):
some circumstances we may notonly we may have to use some
that are not that type, but fromthe core that have been through
that remediation process, wewant to set a predominant value
or a mid-range, you know, anaverage value, and from that
we're going to look at thenon-impacted homes to kind of
(23:42):
determine what we think theadjustment would be between the
two, right?
So getting there is hard is is,is the?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I know this is a hard question to answer and it
probably didn't have a black orwhite answer.
But once a home has flooded,the stigma that goes with that,
that, the disclosure on that anduh, you know from what I see a
home that gets three or fourfeet of water in it.
You know that's, that's adisaster for the homeowner.
It feet of water in it you knowthat's a disaster for the
(24:13):
homeowner.
It really is.
Most of them don't have floodinsurance either, but I find it
to be remediated and be veryclean.
Cut to me.
I can come back in and seedrywall was taken out.
You know, maybe some studs hadto be replaced, flooring's been
replaced, electrical has beenreplaced, maybe a couple ACs.
I think my initial feeling isthat can be made whole,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
And just as good as new.
I think if you did a study ofsinkhole homes in Hernando
County and Spring Hill, that'sexactly what you would find out,
because that's my experienceand I've been doing it 31 years.
Once they get remediated andthey look, act, taste, feel just
like everything else on thestreet, the buyer stigma goes
away.
Maybe the first one, maybe, youknow.
But once the market gets goingagain and market acceptance,
(25:00):
that first one gets bought, thatsecond one gets bought in that
same range.
That's it.
There's no more stigma.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, we're good.
I actually had an agent thatwas an appraiser for me as well
in Spring Hill a decade or soago.
He told me that they wereactually given a point or two
premium for repaired sinkholesversus one that had never had
one.
He said these are sitting ducksthat haven't had one yet, the
ones that have already beenrepaired and grouted, and
everything.
We're actually giving them alittle love.
(25:28):
There's a train of thought.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, there it is Exactly giving them a little
love.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
There's a train of thought yeah, there it is
exactly Now.
I don't know if we can say thatwith flood, because you know
there could be another one rightbehind this one and you could
get flooded again.
If I'm going to get floodedagain, though, I hope it happens
before I remediate.
Oh yeah.
It makes the water flow throughso much easier once the drywall
is already out.
I'm sorry.
Listen, I think this is going tobe a conversation, because I
(25:53):
have four questions here and Ididn't get to any of them.
I think this is a conversationthat we could certainly have
again with some additionalpodcasts.
I'm hoping that maybe we canget you to jump on our broker
updates, maybe once a month orsomething, and share with the.
We're doing some Zoom updateswith our agents that have seemed
to be pretty popular, because Iwould love for you to share
(26:13):
that little inside industry stat.
You have that about how manyappraisals have been ordered.
That is an awesome number towork with, guys.
If you didn't pick up anythingfrom this, 25% appraisal orders
are up.
That's strong.
You're not going to know aboutit, though, if you don't get any
appraisals ordered, so go talkto people that need to buy or
sell.
We're going to have to wrapthis thing up, amir.
(26:35):
Final thoughts.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, hey, john, I really appreciate you stopping
in today.
I mean, your class, like I saidin the beginning, was amazing
and you know I hope that we'llbe able to get you back.
You know, we have one coming upthe end of October where we go
over at Pro.
We have probably a good 50, 60of our agents that come in in
person and then probably another200 on Zoom or whatnot.
It'd be great to have you thereif you have the time.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That's a good point.
We'd love to have you on ourpanel for that one, if you can
do it.
We're trying to nail him downhere while we got him on air.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
That's right.
He can't score him on us toobad.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You got a final thought you want to close out
with John.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
No, I listen, I appreciate the partnership.
I've been working with CharlesRuttenberg here for darn near a
decade through the affiliateprogram at Perot, so I just I
appreciate y'all's partnership.
You know we, from an appraisalstandpoint, as a company, we
have always thought about itjust a little differently.
Right, we've always wanted tobe your partner.
We don't want to be adversarial, we want to work together
(27:31):
because at the end of the day ittakes all of us right.
It takes all of us to besuccessful and we know we can't
have a successful firm long-termif we don't have successful
relationship with the agentsthat are in the field making it
happen every day.
So we will continue to do thatand I appreciate the invite, I
appreciate the kind words andyou can count on me being there.
I love nothing better than theopportunity to give my humble
(27:53):
opinion.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I appreciate that, john, we do appreciate it so
much, and you're right it does.
You got to really be tired inwith your industry partners to
make this work.
Single agents by yourself areon an island and that's not a
good place to be.
That's right.
All right, we're going to goahead and wrap.
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