January 24, 2025 • 36 mins
This episode delves into property tax relief options available for homeowners affected by recent calamities, focusing on the procedures for claiming refunds and the significance of the Save Our Homes cap. Tune in for expert insights on homestead exemptions, tax assessments, and actionable steps residents can take to secure financial relief in uncertain times.
• Discussion on partial property tax refunds available for displaced homeowners
• Application process and important deadlines outlined
• Explanation of the refund calculation based on days displaced and structure value
• Insights on the Save Our Homes cap and implications for long-term residents
• Clarifications regarding reapplying for homestead exemptions post-rebuild
• Importance of community engagement and resources for property owners
• Tips for realtors to assist clients in navigating tax processes
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the podcast everybody.
I am Mike with my co-host, amir.
Hey, good morning everybody.
It is the Real EstateDisruptors podcast.
We're kicking off in 2025.
We had the Honorable MikeTwitty on with us on the last
show.
There's so much information.
Mike agreed to come back.
That's awesome.
(00:20):
He's a great guy and help usout, so we kind of left it on a
cliff.
Mike, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Good to have you back , great, great to be here again.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Forgot our VIP is here.
Mike's our frequent flyer too.
I think this makes number four,that he's come and shared and
done the you know, reaching outto the public and, like you said
, getting the right informationout there.
We really appreciate that.
We've been in trying times andI'm sure you guys are a little
busy over there in your office.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Lots to do on top of our normal duties, but we're
just trying to help people, givethem some facts and some
answers in a time that there's alot of uncertainty.
Yeah, they need to cling tosome advice that they know they
can take to the bank and isaccurate, that they know they
can take to the bank and isaccurate.
So, listen, we left this offhanging on.
(01:05):
There might be some kind of taxrelief for the homeowners out
there, the taxpayers.
Do you got any kind of thingthat they should know about to
save some money?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, there's a potential partial property tax
refund that they can apply for.
So those that were displacedtheir home was basically
uninhabitable for 30 days ormore they can submit an
application to our office.
It's a like department ofrevenue four 65 form, you know,
(01:37):
but they can find that easily onour website and and and make
that application again right nowit's now we're building out a
web form to streamline that evenmore, to get away from a
PDF-type application.
So that should be operational.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So if it's 30 days or more, they're able to apply for
a partnership.
That's awesome because we knowemployees, staff, everything
that are displaced right nowstill living in hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yes, yes, and they have up until March 1 to make
application.
So March 1 of 2025 is thedeadline to make that
application, because we reallywant to know how many days they
were displaced.
That becomes the numerator inthe equation.
You know it's number of daysdisplaced over 365.
So if it's Helene, that'sroughly about 25% of the year,
(02:25):
and then the calculation is onlybased on your structure value.
We're back to structure valuetalk again.
So it's what your structurecontributes to your overall
property value.
So let's say that was 33%, alot of properties, it's about a
third.
So 33% times 25% times your,the tax bill you paid in 2024
(02:50):
turns into your refund.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Hey, that's really good stuff for Pinellas County
to come out and do that for, youknow, for the residents and
whatnot.
And you know, that's where Ithink.
When we were talking last week,you know people need to just
everything got into chaos.
But if they just slowed downand, you know, backed up a
minute, systems are in place to,you know, get people back to
maybe being whole or, you know,helping them out.
(03:14):
At least there's a lot ofdifferent programs and so you
know whether they got to do aforbearance with their mortgage
and whatnot.
Now Pinellas County has arefund with property taxes.
They don't have to, you know,fork that.
So with the, with the refund,is that a credit that's going to
the next year's or is thatgoing to be actual cash coming
to them or it's actually a truerefund that comes back in early
(03:36):
2025.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Okay, so it's a refund against your 2024.
So, unfortunately, they have topay their 24, but then they can
.
They make the application forthe refund and the tax collector
.
We process the numbers, we dothe math because I think we're
better at the math than the taxcollector, I do too and then we
send that on to them.
Then they issue the refunds.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Okay, Okay.
Well, that's nice.
That's kind of like not a wayyou should use your savings plan
, but I'll take it Right.
Anytime you get a check in themail versus a bill, it's a good
day, it is definitely Well, goodstuff.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
People just need to keep in mind you know, in a lot
of cases they might have had a.
They already have a Save OurHomes cap that's really
protecting so much of theirvalue yeah, and a high
percentage of their value is intheir land and their extra
features, so they may not begetting back as much as they
thought.
But I just want to lay that outand they'll see the formula,
(04:33):
how it works when they make theapplication.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So, mike, I know you guys are so busy over there and
your site is so just kickingrear.
I love it.
Ton of information, everythingyou need is on there.
But if you find some peoplethat sometimes just can't dig
around and find the site, what'sthe best way for them to
contact your office?
You have a chat box on there.
Do you want them to call?
Do you want them to email?
Do you want them to send asmoke signal?
(04:55):
What do you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
want yeah, so the easiest way, I mean first of all
the phone.
Our average on hold time isnine seconds, so you're going to
get a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think that's up two seconds from the last time you
were here.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Mike.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I think it was seven.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Well, we've had storms to deal with so yeah, the
phones have been busy, but weget them triaged very quickly
and get them moved on tosomebody that can answer your
particular question.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So we're going old school.
Yeah, so calling on a.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
so that's 727-464-3207.
And then, of course, thewebsite has a ton of information
at pcpaogov, and then if youwant to shoot an email in, our
general email box is simply mikeat pcpaogov, so we call that.
That's our Mike mail, awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you guys respond to that quickly.
I know because I've used it andwe really appreciate that about
you, you got some good peopleworking for you over there?
Yes, we do.
I'm very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, the property appraiser is a wonderful,
wonderful site and you know,like we talked last time I mean
when you built the new one, Imean on steroids it's really,
really a value add.
I I know you just touched onthe Save Our Homes cap.
When it comes to a homeownerwho's going to have to either
raise their property or they'regoing to have to demolish it and
(06:11):
then rebuild, how does thataffect their Save Our Homes cap
and is it going to make theirproperty not value but their
assessed value increase, whichis ultimately going to increase
their property taxes?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Right, that's a great question.
Um, we're getting hit a lot onsocial media um about, well, I
can't rebuild cause I'm going toget treated as new construction
and that's going to be a dealkiller for me.
Right.
Well, what they what manyaren't aware of is there is a
provision in Florida statutescalled the calamity provision,
and it protects your assessedvalue from moving up to 110% of
(06:49):
your original square footage.
Okay, so the only the you knowif you're building at grade
would be no issue.
The issue is most people haveto elevate, you know, in these
situations.
So when you elevate, if youenclose the lower portion, that
is, additional square footage,it's going to bring you over the
110.
If you put the same living inthe air and then did a full
(07:10):
enclosure below, so you wouldget taxed for the excess.
However, we bring that on theroll at a much, much lower rate
than living space.
So, generally, just usingsimple numbers, if base costs
were $100 a square foot forliving, a garage would be 35% of
(07:32):
that.
So 35%.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So you just treat it straight up as garage space,
right, okay?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right Garage or utility.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You might have an entry.
Generally you're going to havean entry, so you might have a
small area of base at that lowerlevel as you enter the property
, but usually that's under acouple hundred square feet and
then the rest would be garage.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So it's an improvement you definitely want
to get a hold of, because itincreases the whole value of the
property.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And you can leave it open too.
So if you leave it open, thenit goes down even further,
because now it's basically acarport, yeah, instead of so you
can be down in that, you know,15 to 25 ish kind of range.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah gotcha, gotcha, no, that's.
Uh, I mean great that you guysare putting that together.
Um, so when it comes to, isthat the same with a, you know,
a commercial building, if someyou know some of our residents
own a commercial property?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So the calamity rule applies to commercial as well.
Okay, so homestead ornon-homestead property, the 110,
same way.
Now, one thing that we do toget to that number and we have
some information on our sitethat goes into how we calculate
that but we use a thing calledeffective area.
(08:46):
So, as we talked about a garage, is 35% of base.
We do basically a weightedaverage of all your square
footages and apply thatweighting to get to this
effective square footage thatputs everybody on an
apples-to-apples basis, right.
And then we need to know, okay,what are you going to end up
with?
Square footage that putseverybody on an apples to apples
basis, right.
And then we need to know, okay,what are you going to end up
(09:08):
with, so we can identify thosesub, sub areas and figure out
should that be a hundred percent, should that be 35%, should
that be 15%?
And and then get a neweffective area to compare to
figure out what that excess isgoing to be.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Understood.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I know that gets complicated.
So what we're trying to dointernally challenging staff
with building what we're callinga calamity calculator which
will allow people to get anestimate of the tax delta or tax
change between where they aretoday versus where they would be
with a new build Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And is there a timeline that somebody has to
have the repairs done or rebuiltcompletely by, or they're going
to lose it or anything alongthose lines?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So the timeline is you have five years from the
January one following the eventto pull your first permit, to
start your, your rebuildactivity.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Gotcha Okay.
So for this they have until 20or 2030, essentially five years
from January 1 of 2025.
Is that correct?
Yes, okay, so get it done.
Yeah, yes, yeah, that's apretty good.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And that's a recent statutory change.
It was three years and itactually effectively becomes
five on January 1 of 2025.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Okay, all right.
After the rebuild, the repair,do they need to do anything to
submit to your office for thehomestead exemption?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Do they?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
need to reapply for homestead.
How does that all?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
work, they don't need to reapply.
They don't need to reapply.
It's very good for them tocommunicate with our office and
just let us know theirintentions, just to make sure
they don't check something wrongon their homestead renewal that
we send out each year that says, oh, I left the house or I'm
renting it.
If they want to keep theirhomestead intact, they need to
(11:01):
do so and not apply anywhereelse.
We will address itappropriately.
We can reduce their thestructure value, you know,
because they're going to knockit down.
So it's it's always thatsnapshot in time on january 1.
So if it's demoed beforejanuary 1, we'll typically get,
we'll pick up on the demo permit.
We'll send them a letter, wecall it a demo letter and it'll
(11:22):
say we, we, we found, we foundthis demo permit.
Do you intend to continue tomake this your homestead?
You know, and we give them therules of the road, just can't
file anywhere else.
We'll keep homestead on it.
It'll keep the save our homescap on that property until they
come back.
And then on calamity, it's alittle bit different because on
calamity you literally get theexact.
(11:44):
You start with the exact sameassessed value, that that you
left with Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
As opposed to if you just were to knock your house
down.
You're going to lose theimprovement value, and then
you're going to scale down your,your, your save, our homes cap
will be based just on land andit'll prorate down slightly.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So in that scenario the person would if they
demolish their property going torebuild, they essentially can't
go and purchase another houseand make that their primary.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Right, they can, they can they can go buy it and they
can live in it.
But if their intent is to keepthat that calamity damage
property as their homestead,just leave your homestead there.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
If you filed homestead someplace else in the
interim, then you just lost yourcap, correct?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Right and it's going to get pulled and then you won't
have, you'll lose calamity andunderstand what that cap is.
That's the difference betweenyour assessed value and your
taxable value, and that's a bigdeal if you've been there for
anything more than three or fouryears right and some people
think well, I'll port over tothe new one while the other
one's being built and then butyou're, they're gonna lose in in
(12:51):
that math because the clamp,the calamity is really holding
that down in most cases, gotchaso it's better for them to go
and rent someplace else.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
well, every his buddy situation is going to be
different, right?
You're not going to lose aslong as you keep the homestead
on this property.
That's going to be different,right, you're not going to lose
as long as you keep thehomestead on this property.
That's going to be your bestbet.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So, based on our four interviews with you, or
opportunities to have you comein and speak to us, my
daughter's building a house.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
She's supposed to get a CO on like the 29th of
December.
I suggested maybe she shouldget that CO on like January 2nd
or January 3rd.
Was I doing anything wrong toher on this, or how would you
look at that, mike?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Well, the statute reads substantially complete.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Oh, it says not CO.
It doesn't say CO.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Oh, so she might as well go ahead and move in early,
Well so you know, if, if shewasn't substantially complete,
she would be treated as land for2025.
However, if she's deemedsubstantially complete, it's
going to go on the roll.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So it has nothing to do with the CEO.
It has to do with live there.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
We use that as a baseline but sometimes it's
right there, it's like, well, Ididn't, I haven't.
You know, we still have anothercoat of paint on this one wall.
Or you know, this or thatGotcha, we haven't put the
shrubs in out front.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, gotcha, so I can help her move on the 29th or
28th.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
So the good thing about that is she can apply for
Homestead for 2025.
Yeah, yeah, which, otherwiseshe would have to wait, and then
you're subject to what themarket does.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, and delay in building your cap Right.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Okay, the market does yeah yeah, and delay and build
in your cap, right?
So okay, and so in 2025 I thinkwe just passed, uh, an increase
in, um, well, what is that?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
the adjustment, and yeah, talk about that.
That's a good window.
Yeah, so that was.
I believe that was amendmentfive.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I think five and annual inflation adjustment
right, right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So a lot of people don't realize that fifty
thousand dollar homesteadexemption that we, that we have
on our properties, is brokeninto two $25,000 bans.
The first one applies zero to25 against all millages of your
assessed value.
The second one applies from 50to $75,000 of assessed value.
(15:07):
Believe it or not, we stillhave a lot of properties,
especially old senior condos,and owners have been in for a
long time.
They still don't break the full75.
So they don't even get the full50,000 of homestead.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So they're mad that it's not kicking in right at
26,000.
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So what this will do?
Now this that second bandapplies to all millages except
schools.
So you're in most casesdepending on your tax district.
Schools can be as much as athird of your tax bill.
So that piece is not exempt inthat second band.
So what this new amendment thatwas passed does is it allows
(15:44):
that second 25 to grow so thatexemption can increase over time
based on the consumer priceindex.
Okay, so that exemption canincrease over time based on the
consumer price index.
So the same CPI that we use forHomestead, for the 3% cap or
CPI, whichever is less.
Well, in the case of thisyou'll use that CPI.
So if it were 5%, that $25,000would be multiplied by 1.05 and
(16:10):
would grow by that much, andthen it would be cumulative each
year.
Okay, it could continue to grow.
So while it will start offfairly nominal, over time it can
at least have you guys run someprojections on it.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You think that what the average you know we're
talking average homes now is 400grand, so everybody's going to
get you know, a large percentageis going to get that second
exemption and now it would havebeen going to be small.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
It's going to be, you know.
You know I could probably takeyou to lunch, probably not
dinner, ok, lunch.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So maybe we should have passed this like four years
ago, when we were having doubledigit inflation.
Right, right OK.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yes, and there were different flavors of adjustments
to how Homestead would inflate.
Senator Brandis actually hadone that would have tied to the
home price index and that wouldhave allowed it to move at a
much greater clip, but that onewe couldn't get that one through
.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I get this is not a political show, but I get
a little cringy when you knowthe increases in values we've
had.
And I still see some countiesand municipalities pushing for
tax increases and I know youhear a lot about that but you
have no authority over itwhatsoever.
But you know they should beable to self-fund pretty well
(17:25):
what happened in the values inthe last three to four years I
would think.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Well, yeah, I've been a proponent of.
I love if a taxing authoritycan seriously consider rolling
back, even if not fully, atleast partially, to allow people
to enjoy the equity in theirhomes and the rise in value and
not necessarily have to payadditional taxes on it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, I would think we could do that.
Do you ever see save our homesbeing sunsetted at all?
No, no, it's with us forever.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, there was no sunset provision in in law for
it.
And when 64% just in Pinellas,64% of your homeowners are
homesteaded, it would have to goto a constitutional amendment
that would need a 60% vote tooverturn it, so it's never going
(18:20):
to happen.
I can do that simple math in myhead and I don't think it's
going to work.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
All right, let's crack back on.
What about you seeing in thecondominiums?
I live in?
This condo unit that's beendamaged.
How's the 50% rule beingapplied there?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah.
So that's a little tricky.
It's not by the unit and if yougo on our FEMA letter and look
at it we quickly state that youcan't really use it for this
because we're valuing a unit andwe don't do a cost approach.
We don't break out a separateland area, so we're not getting
down to a structure value Plus.
(18:56):
Fema requires that 50% to be ofthe entire building, not just
your respective unit.
Okay, because obviously ifthere's damage it's really about
that building and thatstructure and whether it's safe.
Now that actually helps a lotof condominium owners because
the ones that were impacted aregenerally the older pre-firm
(19:17):
at-grade built prior to 75, andonly the first floors were
impacted in most cases.
So the value from the rest ofthe building helps buoy them up.
Even if they were almost acomplete loss, they still may be
able to repair those and comeback.
So one thing we're doing thereis we are trying to incorporate
(19:41):
that building valuation into ourFEMA letter as well.
So that is something we'reworking on at present and hope
to be able to put out therepretty soon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
These are, I think.
A lot of times people think oh,you know, Mike Twitty, my
property appraiser, you guys domass appraisals and you work on
mass numbers.
So when there's a homeowner outthere that thinks, well, he
doesn't know, I have granitecountertops and that I just
redid my bathroom.
So that's where we have to keepin mind of what's going on here
(20:11):
and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
they get fearful even with our building value
reconsideration process or theyget an outside appraisal.
They're worried that theirtaxes are going to go up if we
see those things.
And that's not the case.
If they have a homesteadexemption in place and
everything was done within thosefour walls, as long as they
didn't change a sub area, liketurn a garage into a living
(20:34):
space, then there's really notgoing to be any change.
It'll change their just value,but not their assessed value.
Their assessed value is stilltheir cap, so it protects that
and it actually helps them inthe long haul because it
increases their portability.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Makes sense.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Is there any other things weneed to know about exemptions?
While we talked quickly aboutexemptions, what would be your
quick, handy word about lettingthe people out there know what
they?
I know that they need to be ownand occupy on January 1st.
Yes, okay.
And they have until March tofile it, technically even a
(21:11):
little longer, correct?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
yeah, so for homestead, march one is, the is
the deadline, and but we um, butwe typically will grant late
files as well up untilmid-September, oh wow, and then
we have to draw that line in thesand, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You don't like to tell everybody that, do you?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well, yeah, we really like them to be in earlier,
because that way the taxingauthorities know what they're
dealing with when they'resetting their millage rates and
things like that, so it's veryhelpful to have that done.
If everybody did it at the endit would be a nightmare.
Oh, I'm sure.
Yeah, yeah, so we really needthem to get those in there early
(21:56):
.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So when we were, too, talking about the appraisals of
a neighborhood and stuff youguys take if I'm reading this
right here you take the completedata of like a neighborhood, so
you're not looking atindividual homes.
When you're, you take an areaand that say, okay, we saw a 2%
or 3% or 5% whatever it wasincrease and that's how you
factor it into the massappraisal.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, well, it's, it's going.
We're looking at hundreds ofsales that might affect one
particular model, that'smodeling a series of
neighborhoods and that isrunning through our cost system
and our sales comparisonapproach modeling system.
So they kind of work together.
But yeah, it truly is mass.
(22:41):
And but yeah, it's a, it's, ittruly is mass.
So it's using statisticalanalysis with that, with
regression and and determiningwhat the best fit is, what the
appropriate adjustments are forsize, for you know, for land
area, for quality condition, allthose types of things.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
All the unique data points that come with that
property, all that's factored in.
Do you have and I know that youspeak to a lot of realtor
groups and differentassociations around the county
all the time Do you have anyprojections of what you think
home values may do?
Or am I getting you out of yourlane here a little bit?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's some thin ice to tread on right
now and, to be honest, I haven'teven really been tracking the
sales the same way I normally do, just because of all the
hurricane response and all thenew processes and everything
that we've been in the weeds on.
So I've been kind of wanting tolet all the dust settle, let
all the sales get in through theend of the fourth quarter, be
(23:41):
able to analyze all that dataand then, as we move into the
first quarter, we'll be lookingat that to see, because we got
to arrive at that January 1snapshot in time of value.
But we know there's going to besome distress sales in the
marketplace.
We know activity andtransaction count has gone way
(24:01):
down from where it was.
Now there's talk about someinterest rate changes, you know.
So there's all these factorsgoing on.
So we have to kind of wait andsee and let all that data come
in.
So I'm not trying to, you know,put the cart before the horse
and I'm analyzing I need to,I'll really be analyzing
potential impacts in our certaintaxing jurisdictions.
(24:25):
You know the beach towns.
Obviously, and what theirpotential impacts may be,
because they may have somedownward taxable value for 2025
as they move through therecovery.
But they still had a lot ofhomeowners that had assessed
values with caps in place thatwere actually below land value.
So, depending on what happenswith sales, if some people move
(24:48):
on, those could reset.
That could help buoy up thejurisdiction some.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So I know your head's been buried in this calamity
that you got dumped in your lapand, like you said, since you've
been in office every year,you've been dealing with
something in your predecessor.
Yeah, I'm wondering if I'm badluck or something.
Do you have a rough number onthe transactions thing, the
downward number of transactionsthat turn hands?
I know that's something morethat we look at from the real
(25:15):
estate business.
Do you guys at the county levelhave a rough idea of the lower
number of transactions this year?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, I think it's.
I'm trying to remember, I'mkind of shooting.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I'll help you out while you're thinking here.
Yeah, the national picture andI would imagine that you
probably may mirror them, thenational picture, I think has it
off about 20% to 25%, isn't itAmir?
Yeah, so what happened was wehad this big spike in
transactions, especially here inFlorida during COVID.
Our numbers, our volume,transaction volume, was way up
(25:50):
and then in third, fourthquarter of 22, it's been
steadily going down.
So I could tell you, internally, over the 24, 30-month period,
we're off about 50% in number oftransactions.
So logic tells me that that'sjust pent up.
It's going to get back in themiddle somewhere it's going to
come back.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I mean, you know you talk about nationally it's.
You know, on average, 4 millionsales you know happen per year
and I think we're sitting justover three at the moment.
And so you know quarter percent.
You know 30% down it's or, yeah, quarter percent down a lot of
homes.
Yeah so there's going to besome pent up demand in the in
the years coming.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, I can.
I can throw out a couple ofnumbers here.
So this is single familytransactions only.
You know we peaked in 2021 withalmost 17,000 single family
homes sold, with almost 17,000single-family homes sold.
In 22, we dropped to 12,500.
And then in 23, we dropped toabout 11,000.
(26:50):
And through third quarter ofthis, year we were at 5,500.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Ouch, that just puts it right in perspective.
So I like to tell all therealtors listening
congratulations, you're asurvivor.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You still made it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You're still in the business, but median sale price
is up.
That's the good news, man.
I remember in 2008, you know,the market was so bad and we
thought, well, it can't get anyworse.
And then 2009 came, and youknow, well, you know, we'll
figure out something here, we'lldo some short sales or
something, and we'll make itthrough to 2010.
Then 2010 came and at one pointin time we didn't think another
(27:31):
piece of real estate was goingto sell.
That's it.
It's locked up.
You know, nobody's buying.
Things will come back.
We know that, we all know that.
So you're at 50, we're.
Pinellas County is at 5,500transactions through the third
quarter Single family Singlefamily yeah, yeah, and so 55,
and if we put another 25% onthat, we hope to be at about
(27:55):
7,000, 7,000.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
8,000.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, 7,000, 7,000, something like that.
So that's got us off about thelaw of large numbers.
I look at you know law of largenumbers.
I look at you know we're alarge brokerage.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We mimic what happens over there at the pro and that
makes sense, because we were at11 000 last year.
So so.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So we're all there, all right.
So I need to talk to yousomething about, really, really,
uh, I think, important, uh nearand dear to me back uh, 10, 15,
10, 15 years ago, when I wasdrinking a lot of sodas, I used
to like Code Red.
So I'm looking to see if I canfind me any Code Red For those
(28:34):
of you guys listening.
That's Mike's band.
I think it's still your band,you guys still together with the
Code Red band.
Uh-oh.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Oh, this just happens with bands, so I know the first
time I had to catch up behindthe music episode.
So I know the first year Ibrought you on you were telling
me that you guys were just aboutto go do a show down at Ferg's.
Well, is Ferg's even stillthere?
I don't think their cash cow,tropica in a field, is there
anymore.
So I don't know.
(29:02):
Man, you guys got any gigscoming up, you doing anything
fun out there?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I know this is a January thing, so we haven't
really booked anything for 2025.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
So we're still kind of taking the holiday season off
and regrouping.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I got a couple of little private things, but
that's usually with just in aduo format with a drummer friend
or or one of my sons okay,that's cool.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, that's cool out there.
All right.
So that was a political speakfor the.
You know they're working onrelationships with the band I
get it.
I know how bands work, allright.
So final thoughts.
Mike, what do you get wrappingup here?
What do you got to up here?
What do you got to?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
tell the folks.
Just again, want to.
You know, let people know, makesure to reach out to us Any,
any questions.
You know, within our lane andour lane is fairly wide we can,
you know.
But please don't don't askbuilding department questions
and we don't have surveys.
A lot of people think we're thekeepers of surveys for some
reason we do.
Really we do not have those, uh.
(30:04):
But you know we can handleparcel splits and combines and
you know we do do the mappingcounty-wide, um, but when we do
do split, splits and combines,it still needs to pass legal
muster with the jurisdiction.
So you, you, we don't want tobe creating non-conforming lots.
Say it was a split and now yourlots don't mean minimum lot size
(30:28):
.
Yeah, there was deedrestrictions in there or
something that said it had to be60 foot of width, right.
So part of our duty is to notcreate land that has no value,
so we don't want to do that Ican't access it from this road.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That doesn't do us any good, does it to collect
those taxes.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So we get some of those kind of requests.
But our main functions areobviously to value every parcel
each and every year, whetherit's real estate or tangible
personal property, which ismostly your business equipment.
So that's about 450,000 parcelsand then we administer all
those exemptions.
So it is exemption time here inthe first quarter of the year
(31:08):
up to that March 1.
So we encourage people, if theywant an exemptions checkup,
tune into our public ed session.
That a link to be to attendvirtually and we'll have a bunch
of exemption specialists on and.
But if they come in person it'sreally good because then before
(31:31):
or after the session you canactually sit with someone and
actually review exemptions youhave or exemptions you may not
even realize you qualify for andyou may learn about through the
session and then be able toapply for those.
That's pretty cool, so thatcould be, you know, widow,
widower, disability, you knowlike veterans exemptions, those
(31:52):
types of things, and you knowthere there can be some savings
there for people low income,senior, those types of things.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, and you know this show.
As you know, you're at theCharles Ruttenberg Realty Office
.
Here Our listenership isrealtors.
Realtors what a great way toreach out to your customer base
and remind them about theirexemptions and get them in front
of this, be able to speak alittle bit knowledgeable,
intelligent about it, enough topoint them towards Mike's site
(32:18):
at least and if they wereinterested in that meeting, just
.
But they just find it on thewebsite.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yes, We'll post it on the website.
We've got a whole, a wholesection Once.
Once we're ready to put that uplive, it'll be there and they
can register for it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And I want to encourage your listeners and
especially your realtors, youknow follow us on social media.
We have a Facebook site and wedeliver a lot of that stuff very
timely, and it's a great way tohave those additional touches
with your clients and gives youan opportunity to stay in
contact with them but give themsome very valuable information
(32:53):
that's very timely.
We also have e-newsletters thatare also very timely, that
people can subscribe to.
We have one just for realestate professionals, and then
we have one for property ownersand then we have another one for
business owners just go to yoursite and subscribe.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's right and that's great content for you
guys too I'm always looking forthose touch points.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, putting out a newsletter specifically for
realtors so good stuff facebook,any other social.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
They should follow you at mike uh, just just
facebook is where we are rightnow.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
We also have a YouTube channel, so all of our
sessions that for public ed getposted to our YouTube channel as
well so they can go back andlook at that archive over the
last several years.
So great information thereabout tenancy.
You know people talking aboutputting their property in a
trust.
We have an in-house attorney.
He does a great session on inthe weeds with deeds.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Don't trust yourself out of your homestead.
Guys, Be careful.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
There's a lot of pitfalls you can fall into.
We always encourage people ifthey're setting up a trust and
they're going to put theirhomestead in it, have us vet the
trust document, you know.
Look at the language in therebefore.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
That is such a valuable tool that you provide
folks, because most I don't wantto say most, but there's a lot
of estate attorneys that kind ofget the language wrong and they
you know the beneficialownership clause that's in there
have Mike's attorney take alook and make sure your
paperwork is fine.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah yeah, our exemptions director is also our
in-house attorney, so it'sperfect.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So he's reviewing it Nice.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
We have that uniqueness that allows us to do
that, Because normally wewouldn't.
You know, we can't providelegal advice and all those types
of things, but he's sittingright there and he's the one
that can approve those.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I'm an attorney and I can tell you that this
exemption is not going to fly.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So I I like that Amir you got any closing thoughts?
You know, mike, as I mentionedbefore, I think you're doing a
great job in office and you knowyour website that you unveiled
was phenomenal.
You know it helps me in mybusiness every day.
You know the tax estimator thatyou have on there great tool
(34:58):
and I think you know a lot ofrealtors who don't know about it
should know about it, andinclusive of lenders, too,
should know about that.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Who don't know about it should know about it, and
inclusive of lenders too, shouldknow about that.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
We all know about those callsthat come in.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
But you know just, I really appreciate you being here
today.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I appreciate you guys having me.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We do.
We appreciate you All rightguys.
With that, we will wrap it upfor this week's edition of Real
Estate Disruptors.
Thanks,
Hey, welcome back to the podcast everybody.
I am Mike with my co-host, amir.
Hey, good morning everybody.
It is the Real EstateDisruptors podcast.
We're kicking off in 2025.
We had the Honorable MikeTwitty on with us on the last
show.
There's so much information.
Mike agreed to come back.
That's awesome.
(00:20):
He's a great guy and help usout, so we kind of left it on a
cliff.
Mike, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Good to have you back , great, great to be here again.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Forgot our VIP is here.
Mike's our frequent flyer too.
I think this makes number four,that he's come and shared and
done the you know, reaching outto the public and, like you said
, getting the right informationout there.
We really appreciate that.
We've been in trying times andI'm sure you guys are a little
busy over there in your office.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Lots to do on top of our normal duties, but we're
just trying to help people, givethem some facts and some
answers in a time that there's alot of uncertainty.
Yeah, they need to cling tosome advice that they know they
can take to the bank and isaccurate, that they know they
can take to the bank and isaccurate.
So, listen, we left this offhanging on.
(01:05):
There might be some kind of taxrelief for the homeowners out
there, the taxpayers.
Do you got any kind of thingthat they should know about to
save some money?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, there's a potential partial property tax
refund that they can apply for.
So those that were displacedtheir home was basically
uninhabitable for 30 days ormore they can submit an
application to our office.
It's a like department ofrevenue four 65 form, you know,
(01:37):
but they can find that easily onour website and and and make
that application again right nowit's now we're building out a
web form to streamline that evenmore, to get away from a
PDF-type application.
So that should be operational.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So if it's 30 days or more, they're able to apply for
a partnership.
That's awesome because we knowemployees, staff, everything
that are displaced right nowstill living in hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yes, yes, and they have up until March 1 to make
application.
So March 1 of 2025 is thedeadline to make that
application, because we reallywant to know how many days they
were displaced.
That becomes the numerator inthe equation.
You know it's number of daysdisplaced over 365.
So if it's Helene, that'sroughly about 25% of the year,
(02:25):
and then the calculation is onlybased on your structure value.
We're back to structure valuetalk again.
So it's what your structurecontributes to your overall
property value.
So let's say that was 33%, alot of properties, it's about a
third.
So 33% times 25% times your,the tax bill you paid in 2024
(02:50):
turns into your refund.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Hey, that's really good stuff for Pinellas County
to come out and do that for, youknow, for the residents and
whatnot.
And you know, that's where Ithink.
When we were talking last week,you know people need to just
everything got into chaos.
But if they just slowed downand, you know, backed up a
minute, systems are in place to,you know, get people back to
maybe being whole or, you know,helping them out.
(03:14):
At least there's a lot ofdifferent programs and so you
know whether they got to do aforbearance with their mortgage
and whatnot.
Now Pinellas County has arefund with property taxes.
They don't have to, you know,fork that.
So with the, with the refund,is that a credit that's going to
the next year's or is thatgoing to be actual cash coming
to them or it's actually a truerefund that comes back in early
(03:36):
2025.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Okay, so it's a refund against your 2024.
So, unfortunately, they have topay their 24, but then they can
.
They make the application forthe refund and the tax collector
.
We process the numbers, we dothe math because I think we're
better at the math than the taxcollector, I do too and then we
send that on to them.
Then they issue the refunds.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Okay, Okay.
Well, that's nice.
That's kind of like not a wayyou should use your savings plan
, but I'll take it Right.
Anytime you get a check in themail versus a bill, it's a good
day, it is definitely Well, goodstuff.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
People just need to keep in mind you know, in a lot
of cases they might have had a.
They already have a Save OurHomes cap that's really
protecting so much of theirvalue yeah, and a high
percentage of their value is intheir land and their extra
features, so they may not begetting back as much as they
thought.
But I just want to lay that outand they'll see the formula,
(04:33):
how it works when they make theapplication.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So, mike, I know you guys are so busy over there and
your site is so just kickingrear.
I love it.
Ton of information, everythingyou need is on there.
But if you find some peoplethat sometimes just can't dig
around and find the site, what'sthe best way for them to
contact your office?
You have a chat box on there.
Do you want them to call?
Do you want them to email?
Do you want them to send asmoke signal?
(04:55):
What do you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
want yeah, so the easiest way, I mean first of all
the phone.
Our average on hold time isnine seconds, so you're going to
get a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think that's up two seconds from the last time you
were here.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Mike.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I think it was seven.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Well, we've had storms to deal with so yeah, the
phones have been busy, but weget them triaged very quickly
and get them moved on tosomebody that can answer your
particular question.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So we're going old school.
Yeah, so calling on a.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
so that's 727-464-3207.
And then, of course, thewebsite has a ton of information
at pcpaogov, and then if youwant to shoot an email in, our
general email box is simply mikeat pcpaogov, so we call that.
That's our Mike mail, awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you guys respond to that quickly.
I know because I've used it andwe really appreciate that about
you, you got some good peopleworking for you over there?
Yes, we do.
I'm very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, the property appraiser is a wonderful,
wonderful site and you know,like we talked last time I mean
when you built the new one, Imean on steroids it's really,
really a value add.
I I know you just touched onthe Save Our Homes cap.
When it comes to a homeownerwho's going to have to either
raise their property or they'regoing to have to demolish it and
(06:11):
then rebuild, how does thataffect their Save Our Homes cap
and is it going to make theirproperty not value but their
assessed value increase, whichis ultimately going to increase
their property taxes?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Right, that's a great question.
Um, we're getting hit a lot onsocial media um about, well, I
can't rebuild cause I'm going toget treated as new construction
and that's going to be a dealkiller for me.
Right.
Well, what they what manyaren't aware of is there is a
provision in Florida statutescalled the calamity provision,
and it protects your assessedvalue from moving up to 110% of
(06:49):
your original square footage.
Okay, so the only the you knowif you're building at grade
would be no issue.
The issue is most people haveto elevate, you know, in these
situations.
So when you elevate, if youenclose the lower portion, that
is, additional square footage,it's going to bring you over the
110.
If you put the same living inthe air and then did a full
(07:10):
enclosure below, so you wouldget taxed for the excess.
However, we bring that on theroll at a much, much lower rate
than living space.
So, generally, just usingsimple numbers, if base costs
were $100 a square foot forliving, a garage would be 35% of
(07:32):
that.
So 35%.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So you just treat it straight up as garage space,
right, okay?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right Garage or utility.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You might have an entry.
Generally you're going to havean entry, so you might have a
small area of base at that lowerlevel as you enter the property
, but usually that's under acouple hundred square feet and
then the rest would be garage.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So it's an improvement you definitely want
to get a hold of, because itincreases the whole value of the
property.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And you can leave it open too.
So if you leave it open, thenit goes down even further,
because now it's basically acarport, yeah, instead of so you
can be down in that, you know,15 to 25 ish kind of range.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah gotcha, gotcha, no, that's.
Uh, I mean great that you guysare putting that together.
Um, so when it comes to, isthat the same with a, you know,
a commercial building, if someyou know some of our residents
own a commercial property?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So the calamity rule applies to commercial as well.
Okay, so homestead ornon-homestead property, the 110,
same way.
Now, one thing that we do toget to that number and we have
some information on our sitethat goes into how we calculate
that but we use a thing calledeffective area.
(08:46):
So, as we talked about a garage, is 35% of base.
We do basically a weightedaverage of all your square
footages and apply thatweighting to get to this
effective square footage thatputs everybody on an
apples-to-apples basis, right.
And then we need to know, okay,what are you going to end up
with?
Square footage that putseverybody on an apples to apples
basis, right.
And then we need to know, okay,what are you going to end up
(09:08):
with, so we can identify thosesub, sub areas and figure out
should that be a hundred percent, should that be 35%, should
that be 15%?
And and then get a neweffective area to compare to
figure out what that excess isgoing to be.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Understood.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I know that gets complicated.
So what we're trying to dointernally challenging staff
with building what we're callinga calamity calculator which
will allow people to get anestimate of the tax delta or tax
change between where they aretoday versus where they would be
with a new build Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And is there a timeline that somebody has to
have the repairs done or rebuiltcompletely by, or they're going
to lose it or anything alongthose lines?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So the timeline is you have five years from the
January one following the eventto pull your first permit, to
start your, your rebuildactivity.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Gotcha Okay.
So for this they have until 20or 2030, essentially five years
from January 1 of 2025.
Is that correct?
Yes, okay, so get it done.
Yeah, yes, yeah, that's apretty good.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And that's a recent statutory change.
It was three years and itactually effectively becomes
five on January 1 of 2025.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Okay, all right.
After the rebuild, the repair,do they need to do anything to
submit to your office for thehomestead exemption?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Do they?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
need to reapply for homestead.
How does that all?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
work, they don't need to reapply.
They don't need to reapply.
It's very good for them tocommunicate with our office and
just let us know theirintentions, just to make sure
they don't check something wrongon their homestead renewal that
we send out each year that says, oh, I left the house or I'm
renting it.
If they want to keep theirhomestead intact, they need to
(11:01):
do so and not apply anywhereelse.
We will address itappropriately.
We can reduce their thestructure value, you know,
because they're going to knockit down.
So it's it's always thatsnapshot in time on january 1.
So if it's demoed beforejanuary 1, we'll typically get,
we'll pick up on the demo permit.
We'll send them a letter, wecall it a demo letter and it'll
(11:22):
say we, we, we found, we foundthis demo permit.
Do you intend to continue tomake this your homestead?
You know, and we give them therules of the road, just can't
file anywhere else.
We'll keep homestead on it.
It'll keep the save our homescap on that property until they
come back.
And then on calamity, it's alittle bit different because on
calamity you literally get theexact.
(11:44):
You start with the exact sameassessed value, that that you
left with Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
As opposed to if you just were to knock your house
down.
You're going to lose theimprovement value, and then
you're going to scale down your,your, your save, our homes cap
will be based just on land andit'll prorate down slightly.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So in that scenario the person would if they
demolish their property going torebuild, they essentially can't
go and purchase another houseand make that their primary.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Right, they can, they can they can go buy it and they
can live in it.
But if their intent is to keepthat that calamity damage
property as their homestead,just leave your homestead there.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
If you filed homestead someplace else in the
interim, then you just lost yourcap, correct?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Right and it's going to get pulled and then you won't
have, you'll lose calamity andunderstand what that cap is.
That's the difference betweenyour assessed value and your
taxable value, and that's a bigdeal if you've been there for
anything more than three or fouryears right and some people
think well, I'll port over tothe new one while the other
one's being built and then butyou're, they're gonna lose in in
(12:51):
that math because the clamp,the calamity is really holding
that down in most cases, gotchaso it's better for them to go
and rent someplace else.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
well, every his buddy situation is going to be
different, right?
You're not going to lose aslong as you keep the homestead
on this property.
That's going to be different,right, you're not going to lose
as long as you keep thehomestead on this property.
That's going to be your bestbet.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So, based on our four interviews with you, or
opportunities to have you comein and speak to us, my
daughter's building a house.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
She's supposed to get a CO on like the 29th of
December.
I suggested maybe she shouldget that CO on like January 2nd
or January 3rd.
Was I doing anything wrong toher on this, or how would you
look at that, mike?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Well, the statute reads substantially complete.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Oh, it says not CO.
It doesn't say CO.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Oh, so she might as well go ahead and move in early,
Well so you know, if, if shewasn't substantially complete,
she would be treated as land for2025.
However, if she's deemedsubstantially complete, it's
going to go on the roll.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So it has nothing to do with the CEO.
It has to do with live there.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
We use that as a baseline but sometimes it's
right there, it's like, well, Ididn't, I haven't.
You know, we still have anothercoat of paint on this one wall.
Or you know, this or thatGotcha, we haven't put the
shrubs in out front.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, gotcha, so I can help her move on the 29th or
28th.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
So the good thing about that is she can apply for
Homestead for 2025.
Yeah, yeah, which, otherwiseshe would have to wait, and then
you're subject to what themarket does.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, and delay in building your cap Right.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Okay, the market does yeah yeah, and delay and build
in your cap, right?
So okay, and so in 2025 I thinkwe just passed, uh, an increase
in, um, well, what is that?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
the adjustment, and yeah, talk about that.
That's a good window.
Yeah, so that was.
I believe that was amendmentfive.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I think five and annual inflation adjustment
right, right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So a lot of people don't realize that fifty
thousand dollar homesteadexemption that we, that we have
on our properties, is brokeninto two $25,000 bans.
The first one applies zero to25 against all millages of your
assessed value.
The second one applies from 50to $75,000 of assessed value.
(15:07):
Believe it or not, we stillhave a lot of properties,
especially old senior condos,and owners have been in for a
long time.
They still don't break the full75.
So they don't even get the full50,000 of homestead.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So they're mad that it's not kicking in right at
26,000.
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So what this will do?
Now this that second bandapplies to all millages except
schools.
So you're in most casesdepending on your tax district.
Schools can be as much as athird of your tax bill.
So that piece is not exempt inthat second band.
So what this new amendment thatwas passed does is it allows
(15:44):
that second 25 to grow so thatexemption can increase over time
based on the consumer priceindex.
Okay, so that exemption canincrease over time based on the
consumer price index.
So the same CPI that we use forHomestead, for the 3% cap or
CPI, whichever is less.
Well, in the case of thisyou'll use that CPI.
So if it were 5%, that $25,000would be multiplied by 1.05 and
(16:10):
would grow by that much, andthen it would be cumulative each
year.
Okay, it could continue to grow.
So while it will start offfairly nominal, over time it can
at least have you guys run someprojections on it.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You think that what the average you know we're
talking average homes now is 400grand, so everybody's going to
get you know, a large percentageis going to get that second
exemption and now it would havebeen going to be small.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
It's going to be, you know.
You know I could probably takeyou to lunch, probably not
dinner, ok, lunch.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So maybe we should have passed this like four years
ago, when we were having doubledigit inflation.
Right, right OK.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yes, and there were different flavors of adjustments
to how Homestead would inflate.
Senator Brandis actually hadone that would have tied to the
home price index and that wouldhave allowed it to move at a
much greater clip, but that onewe couldn't get that one through
.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I get this is not a political show, but I get
a little cringy when you knowthe increases in values we've
had.
And I still see some countiesand municipalities pushing for
tax increases and I know youhear a lot about that but you
have no authority over itwhatsoever.
But you know they should beable to self-fund pretty well
(17:25):
what happened in the values inthe last three to four years I
would think.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Well, yeah, I've been a proponent of.
I love if a taxing authoritycan seriously consider rolling
back, even if not fully, atleast partially, to allow people
to enjoy the equity in theirhomes and the rise in value and
not necessarily have to payadditional taxes on it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, I would think we could do that.
Do you ever see save our homesbeing sunsetted at all?
No, no, it's with us forever.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, there was no sunset provision in in law for
it.
And when 64% just in Pinellas,64% of your homeowners are
homesteaded, it would have to goto a constitutional amendment
that would need a 60% vote tooverturn it, so it's never going
(18:20):
to happen.
I can do that simple math in myhead and I don't think it's
going to work.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
All right, let's crack back on.
What about you seeing in thecondominiums?
I live in?
This condo unit that's beendamaged.
How's the 50% rule beingapplied there?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah.
So that's a little tricky.
It's not by the unit and if yougo on our FEMA letter and look
at it we quickly state that youcan't really use it for this
because we're valuing a unit andwe don't do a cost approach.
We don't break out a separateland area, so we're not getting
down to a structure value Plus.
(18:56):
Fema requires that 50% to be ofthe entire building, not just
your respective unit.
Okay, because obviously ifthere's damage it's really about
that building and thatstructure and whether it's safe.
Now that actually helps a lotof condominium owners because
the ones that were impacted aregenerally the older pre-firm
(19:17):
at-grade built prior to 75, andonly the first floors were
impacted in most cases.
So the value from the rest ofthe building helps buoy them up.
Even if they were almost acomplete loss, they still may be
able to repair those and comeback.
So one thing we're doing thereis we are trying to incorporate
(19:41):
that building valuation into ourFEMA letter as well.
So that is something we'reworking on at present and hope
to be able to put out therepretty soon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
These are, I think.
A lot of times people think oh,you know, Mike Twitty, my
property appraiser, you guys domass appraisals and you work on
mass numbers.
So when there's a homeowner outthere that thinks, well, he
doesn't know, I have granitecountertops and that I just
redid my bathroom.
So that's where we have to keepin mind of what's going on here
(20:11):
and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
they get fearful even with our building value
reconsideration process or theyget an outside appraisal.
They're worried that theirtaxes are going to go up if we
see those things.
And that's not the case.
If they have a homesteadexemption in place and
everything was done within thosefour walls, as long as they
didn't change a sub area, liketurn a garage into a living
(20:34):
space, then there's really notgoing to be any change.
It'll change their just value,but not their assessed value.
Their assessed value is stilltheir cap, so it protects that
and it actually helps them inthe long haul because it
increases their portability.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Makes sense.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Is there any other things weneed to know about exemptions?
While we talked quickly aboutexemptions, what would be your
quick, handy word about lettingthe people out there know what
they?
I know that they need to be ownand occupy on January 1st.
Yes, okay.
And they have until March tofile it, technically even a
(21:11):
little longer, correct?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
yeah, so for homestead, march one is, the is
the deadline, and but we um, butwe typically will grant late
files as well up untilmid-September, oh wow, and then
we have to draw that line in thesand, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You don't like to tell everybody that, do you?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well, yeah, we really like them to be in earlier,
because that way the taxingauthorities know what they're
dealing with when they'resetting their millage rates and
things like that, so it's veryhelpful to have that done.
If everybody did it at the endit would be a nightmare.
Oh, I'm sure.
Yeah, yeah, so we really needthem to get those in there early
(21:56):
.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So when we were, too, talking about the appraisals of
a neighborhood and stuff youguys take if I'm reading this
right here you take the completedata of like a neighborhood, so
you're not looking atindividual homes.
When you're, you take an areaand that say, okay, we saw a 2%
or 3% or 5% whatever it wasincrease and that's how you
factor it into the massappraisal.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, well, it's, it's going.
We're looking at hundreds ofsales that might affect one
particular model, that'smodeling a series of
neighborhoods and that isrunning through our cost system
and our sales comparisonapproach modeling system.
So they kind of work together.
But yeah, it truly is mass.
(22:41):
And but yeah, it's a, it's, ittruly is mass.
So it's using statisticalanalysis with that, with
regression and and determiningwhat the best fit is, what the
appropriate adjustments are forsize, for you know, for land
area, for quality condition, allthose types of things.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
All the unique data points that come with that
property, all that's factored in.
Do you have and I know that youspeak to a lot of realtor
groups and differentassociations around the county
all the time Do you have anyprojections of what you think
home values may do?
Or am I getting you out of yourlane here a little bit?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's some thin ice to tread on right
now and, to be honest, I haven'teven really been tracking the
sales the same way I normally do, just because of all the
hurricane response and all thenew processes and everything
that we've been in the weeds on.
So I've been kind of wanting tolet all the dust settle, let
all the sales get in through theend of the fourth quarter, be
(23:41):
able to analyze all that dataand then, as we move into the
first quarter, we'll be lookingat that to see, because we got
to arrive at that January 1snapshot in time of value.
But we know there's going to besome distress sales in the
marketplace.
We know activity andtransaction count has gone way
(24:01):
down from where it was.
Now there's talk about someinterest rate changes, you know.
So there's all these factorsgoing on.
So we have to kind of wait andsee and let all that data come
in.
So I'm not trying to, you know,put the cart before the horse
and I'm analyzing I need to,I'll really be analyzing
potential impacts in our certaintaxing jurisdictions.
(24:25):
You know the beach towns.
Obviously, and what theirpotential impacts may be,
because they may have somedownward taxable value for 2025
as they move through therecovery.
But they still had a lot ofhomeowners that had assessed
values with caps in place thatwere actually below land value.
So, depending on what happenswith sales, if some people move
(24:48):
on, those could reset.
That could help buoy up thejurisdiction some.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So I know your head's been buried in this calamity
that you got dumped in your lapand, like you said, since you've
been in office every year,you've been dealing with
something in your predecessor.
Yeah, I'm wondering if I'm badluck or something.
Do you have a rough number onthe transactions thing, the
downward number of transactionsthat turn hands?
I know that's something morethat we look at from the real
(25:15):
estate business.
Do you guys at the county levelhave a rough idea of the lower
number of transactions this year?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, I think it's.
I'm trying to remember, I'mkind of shooting.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I'll help you out while you're thinking here.
Yeah, the national picture andI would imagine that you
probably may mirror them, thenational picture, I think has it
off about 20% to 25%, isn't itAmir?
Yeah, so what happened was wehad this big spike in
transactions, especially here inFlorida during COVID.
Our numbers, our volume,transaction volume, was way up
(25:50):
and then in third, fourthquarter of 22, it's been
steadily going down.
So I could tell you, internally, over the 24, 30-month period,
we're off about 50% in number oftransactions.
So logic tells me that that'sjust pent up.
It's going to get back in themiddle somewhere it's going to
come back.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I mean, you know you talk about nationally it's.
You know, on average, 4 millionsales you know happen per year
and I think we're sitting justover three at the moment.
And so you know quarter percent.
You know 30% down it's or, yeah, quarter percent down a lot of
homes.
Yeah so there's going to besome pent up demand in the in
the years coming.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, I can.
I can throw out a couple ofnumbers here.
So this is single familytransactions only.
You know we peaked in 2021 withalmost 17,000 single family
homes sold, with almost 17,000single-family homes sold.
In 22, we dropped to 12,500.
And then in 23, we dropped toabout 11,000.
(26:50):
And through third quarter ofthis, year we were at 5,500.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Ouch, that just puts it right in perspective.
So I like to tell all therealtors listening
congratulations, you're asurvivor.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You still made it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You're still in the business, but median sale price
is up.
That's the good news, man.
I remember in 2008, you know,the market was so bad and we
thought, well, it can't get anyworse.
And then 2009 came, and youknow, well, you know, we'll
figure out something here, we'lldo some short sales or
something, and we'll make itthrough to 2010.
Then 2010 came and at one pointin time we didn't think another
(27:31):
piece of real estate was goingto sell.
That's it.
It's locked up.
You know, nobody's buying.
Things will come back.
We know that, we all know that.
So you're at 50, we're.
Pinellas County is at 5,500transactions through the third
quarter Single family Singlefamily yeah, yeah, and so 55,
and if we put another 25% onthat, we hope to be at about
(27:55):
7,000, 7,000.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
8,000.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, 7,000, 7,000, something like that.
So that's got us off about thelaw of large numbers.
I look at you know law of largenumbers.
I look at you know we're alarge brokerage.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We mimic what happens over there at the pro and that
makes sense, because we were at11 000 last year.
So so.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So we're all there, all right.
So I need to talk to yousomething about, really, really,
uh, I think, important, uh nearand dear to me back uh, 10, 15,
10, 15 years ago, when I wasdrinking a lot of sodas, I used
to like Code Red.
So I'm looking to see if I canfind me any Code Red For those
(28:34):
of you guys listening.
That's Mike's band.
I think it's still your band,you guys still together with the
Code Red band.
Uh-oh.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Oh, this just happens with bands, so I know the first
time I had to catch up behindthe music episode.
So I know the first year Ibrought you on you were telling
me that you guys were just aboutto go do a show down at Ferg's.
Well, is Ferg's even stillthere?
I don't think their cash cow,tropica in a field, is there
anymore.
So I don't know.
(29:02):
Man, you guys got any gigscoming up, you doing anything
fun out there?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I know this is a January thing, so we haven't
really booked anything for 2025.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
So we're still kind of taking the holiday season off
and regrouping.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I got a couple of little private things, but
that's usually with just in aduo format with a drummer friend
or or one of my sons okay,that's cool.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, that's cool out there.
All right.
So that was a political speakfor the.
You know they're working onrelationships with the band I
get it.
I know how bands work, allright.
So final thoughts.
Mike, what do you get wrappingup here?
What do you got to up here?
What do you got to?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
tell the folks.
Just again, want to.
You know, let people know, makesure to reach out to us Any,
any questions.
You know, within our lane andour lane is fairly wide we can,
you know.
But please don't don't askbuilding department questions
and we don't have surveys.
A lot of people think we're thekeepers of surveys for some
reason we do.
Really we do not have those, uh.
(30:04):
But you know we can handleparcel splits and combines and
you know we do do the mappingcounty-wide, um, but when we do
do split, splits and combines,it still needs to pass legal
muster with the jurisdiction.
So you, you, we don't want tobe creating non-conforming lots.
Say it was a split and now yourlots don't mean minimum lot size
(30:28):
.
Yeah, there was deedrestrictions in there or
something that said it had to be60 foot of width, right.
So part of our duty is to notcreate land that has no value,
so we don't want to do that Ican't access it from this road.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That doesn't do us any good, does it to collect
those taxes.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So we get some of those kind of requests.
But our main functions areobviously to value every parcel
each and every year, whetherit's real estate or tangible
personal property, which ismostly your business equipment.
So that's about 450,000 parcelsand then we administer all
those exemptions.
So it is exemption time here inthe first quarter of the year
(31:08):
up to that March 1.
So we encourage people, if theywant an exemptions checkup,
tune into our public ed session.
That a link to be to attendvirtually and we'll have a bunch
of exemption specialists on and.
But if they come in person it'sreally good because then before
(31:31):
or after the session you canactually sit with someone and
actually review exemptions youhave or exemptions you may not
even realize you qualify for andyou may learn about through the
session and then be able toapply for those.
That's pretty cool, so thatcould be, you know, widow,
widower, disability, you knowlike veterans exemptions, those
(31:52):
types of things, and you knowthere there can be some savings
there for people low income,senior, those types of things.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, and you know this show.
As you know, you're at theCharles Ruttenberg Realty Office
.
Here Our listenership isrealtors.
Realtors what a great way toreach out to your customer base
and remind them about theirexemptions and get them in front
of this, be able to speak alittle bit knowledgeable,
intelligent about it, enough topoint them towards Mike's site
(32:18):
at least and if they wereinterested in that meeting, just
.
But they just find it on thewebsite.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yes, We'll post it on the website.
We've got a whole, a wholesection Once.
Once we're ready to put that uplive, it'll be there and they
can register for it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And I want to encourage your listeners and
especially your realtors, youknow follow us on social media.
We have a Facebook site and wedeliver a lot of that stuff very
timely, and it's a great way tohave those additional touches
with your clients and gives youan opportunity to stay in
contact with them but give themsome very valuable information
(32:53):
that's very timely.
We also have e-newsletters thatare also very timely, that
people can subscribe to.
We have one just for realestate professionals, and then
we have one for property ownersand then we have another one for
business owners just go to yoursite and subscribe.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's right and that's great content for you
guys too I'm always looking forthose touch points.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, putting out a newsletter specifically for
realtors so good stuff facebook,any other social.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
They should follow you at mike uh, just just
facebook is where we are rightnow.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
We also have a YouTube channel, so all of our
sessions that for public ed getposted to our YouTube channel as
well so they can go back andlook at that archive over the
last several years.
So great information thereabout tenancy.
You know people talking aboutputting their property in a
trust.
We have an in-house attorney.
He does a great session on inthe weeds with deeds.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Don't trust yourself out of your homestead.
Guys, Be careful.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
There's a lot of pitfalls you can fall into.
We always encourage people ifthey're setting up a trust and
they're going to put theirhomestead in it, have us vet the
trust document, you know.
Look at the language in therebefore.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
That is such a valuable tool that you provide
folks, because most I don't wantto say most, but there's a lot
of estate attorneys that kind ofget the language wrong and they
you know the beneficialownership clause that's in there
have Mike's attorney take alook and make sure your
paperwork is fine.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah yeah, our exemptions director is also our
in-house attorney, so it'sperfect.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So he's reviewing it Nice.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
We have that uniqueness that allows us to do
that, Because normally wewouldn't.
You know, we can't providelegal advice and all those types
of things, but he's sittingright there and he's the one
that can approve those.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I'm an attorney and I can tell you that this
exemption is not going to fly.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So I I like that Amir you got any closing thoughts?
You know, mike, as I mentionedbefore, I think you're doing a
great job in office and you knowyour website that you unveiled
was phenomenal.
You know it helps me in mybusiness every day.
You know the tax estimator thatyou have on there great tool
(34:58):
and I think you know a lot ofrealtors who don't know about it
should know about it, andinclusive of lenders, too,
should know about that.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Who don't know about it should know about it, and
inclusive of lenders too, shouldknow about that.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
We all know about those callsthat come in.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
But you know just, I really appreciate you being here
today.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I appreciate you guys having me.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We do.
We appreciate you All rightguys.
With that, we will wrap it upfor this week's edition of Real
Estate Disruptors.
Thanks,
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