Building High-Performing Teams

As co-founder of Assets For Acres and an expert in team dynamics, Ben dives deep into the secrets of building high-performing teams. His focus on discipline, leadership, and fostering a culture of excellence has empowered his team to achieve 7-figure results while operating autonomously. Tune in for actionable insights on building and leading a winning team!

Episode Transcript

Mike (00:00):
All right, everyone.

(00:00):
Welcome to the Real Estate GameChangers show.
I'm your host, Mike McKay, basedin Jacksonville, Florida.
And each and every week we dothis show with people who are
changing the game of real estateall over the country.
And this is a live show.
So if you have any questions,please put them in the comments
for our guests to answer.
If anyone is in the Jacksonvillearea and you're in sales and

(00:22):
you're thinking about gettinginto real estate, uh, send me a
DM on Instagram.
We are hiring one moresalesperson for our acquisitions
team.
Uh, this week on the show, wehave Ben Pijanowski.
Ben, welcome to the show.

Ben (00:35):
Thanks for having me, Mike.
Excited to get into it today.

Mike (00:38):
Let's do it.
Um, so for the people who don'tknow you, uh, can you tell us a
little bit about how you gotinto the real estate business
and how that's led you to whereyou are today?

Ben (00:48):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So just to kind of start outwith some context, I am a land
investor.
I'm a land guy.
So when it comes to real estateland is our bread and butter
here at assets for acres.
So I started my own landbusiness in 2021 because I heard
of a podcast called RE tipster.
From my friend, Ajay Sharma, whois now my current business

(01:11):
partner.
So in 2021, I bought the courseREtipster just to learn about
land and how a land businessworks.
So I got the LLC ready.
I got my Chase business bankingaccount and lo and behold, I
never did a single transactionin that business.
So I just discovered that Ididn't really like being a
solopreneur.

(01:32):
I wanted to be in a businesswith other people and
collaborating because we talkabout the e myth.
By Michael Gerber, there arethree different types of
business people.
You have the entrepreneur, youhave the manager, and you have
the technician.
After I read that book, I knewthat I was a manager and not the
entrepreneur.
So I knew that at some point Ineeded to be that manager within

(01:53):
a business and being thatsolopreneur wasn't the right fit
for me.
So I was still working mycorporate job at that time at
KPMG.
I'm a CPA by trade.
So I was working at a big fouraccounting firm and it just
wasn't quite the path that I sawfor myself.
For the future of my life.
So I saved up 35, 000 and Isaid, you know what?

(02:16):
I'm going to retire down toMexico.
So in Mexico, I could have livedfor 200 a month.
And kept my cost of living at200 a month for the rest of my
life and lived off that 35grand.
I went down to Mexico for a weekand decided it was not for me.
I had too much energy left andcould not go into retirement at

(02:38):
the age of 24.
So, and, uh, I came back from,from Mexico after one week, came
back to the States and I gave myfriend Ajay Sharma a call at the
beginning of 2022.
Hey, you know, I'm thinkingabout getting a land business
going again.
I think it would be a good thingfor me to get into.
I had always loved real estate.

(02:58):
I started listening to biggerpockets and I don't know, 2014
when I was a sophomore in highschool.
So I've, I've always had apassion for real estate.
So I brought this up to Ajay andhe said, well, you know, I
already have my business runningand it's fairly established.
Why don't we just.
Partner and try to JV some dealstogether.
So I took an, I took a day tosit on it.

(03:21):
And after that day I said, I'mall in, let's do it.
So we decided to JV on somedeals.
He fronted the marketing costs.
Then we worked together on theoperations of figuring out what
types of deals we wanted to doon the land side.
So that was our first kind of.
Test as to us working togetheras business partners, because we

(03:43):
always like to talk about, youwant a date before you get
married.
So that was our chance to kindof figure out, is this going to
be something we could do longterm?
We'd always figured we had meteach other in college.
We always figured that somewherealong the lines, we'd be working
together.
We just didn't expect it to bethis soon.
So that was really nice that wecould already test it.
Out when we were really youngand I had my cost of living

(04:04):
really, really low.
And Ajay was still working hiscorporate job.
So we had relatively low risk tojust test out the land business
and see how we could build itand in what way we could build
it.
So that was a really good chancefor us to figure out, okay, what
does the future look like?
And then from there, we juststarted building and doing more
and more deals.
So right now we have a team ofseven.
We have four overseas, three inthe US and then me and Ajay

(04:28):
running the business asco-owners together.
So right now I am the integratorslash COO of the company.
So everybody reports to me on adaily basis with any problems,
challenges they have, and I tryto build the systems and
operations around the businessto always funnel leads and
opportunities into the businessand try to get us to where
Ajay's vision is.

(04:50):
Leading us and Ajay's role inthe company is the CEO and
visionary.
So he's trying to paint thepicture for the business of
where we're trying to get towhere we can go in 10 years,
five years, a year, a quarter, amonth from now.
And I'm saying, okay, here'swhere we are right now as a
business.
Can we get to where you see ourpicture getting to?

(05:10):
What's the roadmap for me toguide this ship forward?
To get us in that direction.
So that's what I'm thinkingabout on a daily basis.
Where are we at right now?
Where do we need to get to andhow do we fill that gap with
the?
Operational capacity, training,and skill sets of our team at
the moment.
And I tried my best to coach ourteam to its best ability and,

(05:32):
and uplevel people as much aspossible so that we can continue
to grow on a daily basis andget, just get better, always
continually getting better andgrowing as a company together.
Our three core values areenthusiasm, dependability, and
growth.
So we focus.
Solely on those core values tomake sure that we're always
coming back to those andoperating our business based on

(05:54):
our core values and trying tolead and take our company into
the future and keep growing andgetting better every single day.

Mike (06:01):
Yeah, so you mentioned earlier, you were, um, you know,
figuring out, like, what type ofland you would want to go after.
If someone were trying to figureout what type of land they
should go after, like, how wouldyou advise that they go about
that?

Ben (06:15):
Yeah.
I really think you want to startwith the shotgun method if
you're really starting out brandnew.
And a shotgun method I say isjust all the land because you
don't really know what you'regoing to get back.
So I think it's really, ifyou're trying to get a land
business started, myrecommendation would be to start
with cold calling because youcan buy a list from prop stream

(06:37):
for 99 a month.
That's P R O P S T R E A M andjust select vacant land.
And then from there you can skiptrace.
We use a service called directskip.
You can skip trace for a couplehundred bucks for 2, 000
records.
If you have 2, 000 records forabout 300, 350, that gives you

(06:58):
plenty of records to call.
And we use a service called OpenPhone, which is 15 a month.
So, about 350 to get you startedon 2, 000 records.
If you call all the landownersin the county you live in,
that's my recommendation.
Pick the county that you livein, all the vacant lands, that
means you have to deselect forbedrooms, deselect for

(07:20):
bathrooms, deselect for garages,deselect for units.
You don't want to have anylivable square footage on your.
Property record that you pull.
So everything within PropStreamthat you want to pull, those
2000 records, it's going to justgoing to be vacant land.
So you pull 2000 people, youcall them and you see how much

(07:40):
they're willing to sell theirland for.
If you call 2000 people, thereis a good, good chance.
That somebody will want less fortheir property than market
value.

Mike (07:55):
And then, um, so I know that's your advice on how to
people should go about it.
Is that how you went about it?

Ben (08:02):
How did I go about it?
I started with direct mail So Ilearned from the REtipster
podcast and the REtipster methodis to start with a delinquent
tax list So what I started doingwas mailing delinquent tax
owners for their vacant land Andjust sending direct mail
postcards, which was greatbecause you get a lot of
motivated sellers And so I got alot of good motivated leads, but

(08:27):
I just did not have a lot ofsales training at that time
because I was deep spreadsheetmonkey, just doing my thing in
corporate America.
I did not have a lot of neversplit the difference training.
So I.
Admittedly was not a greatsalesperson at that time.
So I did not convert a lot ofthose deals.
Somebody may who has a lot ofsales experience, maybe able to

(08:48):
convert those really well, butthat's where I just think that
the reps is the biggest piece.
If you can cold call 2000people, you're just going to
learn more about the area, learnwhat land is valued at, how much
per acre, what people really dowith their land, what the goal
is.
Of the asset class, because it'sso important to know what
commodity you're trading,whether that's mobile homes,

(09:10):
single family homes land.
And the more time you spendtalking with owners of that
commodity, the more you're goingto learn about that commodity.
And I just wasn't spendingenough time with a direct mail
leads because it was more of aninbound marketing channel.
So that's where myrecommendation, if I was
starting again, And I had togive advice to myself.

(09:31):
I would say cold call 2000property owners because you're
going to learn a lot about landand learn a lot about value of
land in your market.

Mike (09:40):
What's your favorite type of land to, to buy or favorite
type of land?
Deal to do.

Ben (09:46):
I'll tell you about a project we have right now.
So we have 107 acres just Southof Waco, Texas, and it is a
beautiful piece of property andit is just wide open 107 acres
right on a highway, which can bea plus and can be a minus.
It's right close to town.

(10:08):
But it's also got so much roadfrontage that it allows us to
split it into separate tracks.
So we're splitting the 107 acresinto five, 20 plus acre tracks.
And then we're going to selleach of those off into
individual tracks to individualowners at the end of the day.
And what you can do, it's, it'svery similar to if you go to

(10:30):
Costco and you buy a full packetof water bottles.
And then you take individualwater bottles and you sell them
out on the street.
You're going to be able tocharge a lot more for the
individual water bottles thanyou are for that full pack from
Costco.
Let's say you paid 5 for a 24pack at Costco, and then you end

(10:53):
up selling one or 2 per bottle.
Of that 24 pack.
That's 24 to 48 on that 5 packof water that you bought at
Costco.
That's a pretty good margin, butit just takes work to find that
end buyer and that's our job isto find the end buyer for those

(11:14):
smaller tracks.

Mike (11:16):
And in a deal like that, like, are you buying it, closing
on it, subdividing and sellingit?
Or is it like, or how does itwork?
I guess.

Ben (11:25):
That's correct.
So we're working with externalfunders outside of our business.
So we have relationships withpeople who have the purchase
price was 560, 000 all in, andwe're putting 80 to a hundred
thousand dollars into theproperty.
And at the end of the day, it'sgoing to be worth 1.
2 to 1.
5 million.
So our investors are going toget preferred returns on the

(11:46):
equity within the deal.
And then we get our split aswell.
And then we, so that we'retechnically taking down the
project, we're buying it.
It's in assets for acresownership right now at the
moment, we've already closed onit and we're doing all the
improvements while it's withinour ownership.
And each of those tracks willbe, will be sold from assets for

(12:08):
acres to an end buyer.

Mike (12:12):
And then, like you said, you were spending about 80 to I
think 80 to 100 on it.
Like, like, what are you doing?
That, like, cost that,

Ben (12:20):
Yeah.
So we're putting in culvertsinto, so right now that it's,
it's vacant land, so there's noimprovements on it.
There's just trees.
There's a fence there.
There's a big ditch going fromthe highway to the property.
So in order to get through theproperty, you kind of have to
jump over the ditch, which isnot what we want for our end

(12:42):
buyers.
We want our end buyers to justdrive.
Right onto that land.
Right, Mike?
And just smooth sailing intotheir driveway and can just
picture this beautiful fantasyfor their future family or
whatever they want to do withtheir property.
But right now they can't do thatwithout the culverts.
So we have to put in culverts,we have to put in driveways, we

(13:05):
have to get all the permittingfrom Texas Department of
Transportation and we have tohave all the water taps ready
for The, and buyers, because inTexas, water is a very precious
commodity, because it does notrain.

Mike (13:23):
so do you envision like, what do you envision that your
end buyers doing with the 20acre tracks that they buy from
you?
Yeah.

Ben (13:32):
So a lot of people are looking to move from the city to
more rural areas.
We're finding, especially inDallas, people love having
places they can go to to justescape from the noise.
So people want to have that homeoutside of the city where it's
20 plus acres and they mighthave a pond.

(13:54):
They may have a couple animalsout on the property.
And really they're just able tohunt, fish, do whatever they
want with that property.
So sometimes it's going to be asecond home for people, but most
times it's just going to be aprincipal residence.
Whether they have a mobile home,a manufactured home, or a large
residence, they're going to havethat space to have some privacy

(14:17):
out on their acreage, which iswhat they're looking for.

Mike (14:21):
Do, do like tracts of land that are that large, like, do
they take longer to sell than, Idon't know, smaller tracts of
land or than single familyhomes?

Ben (14:34):
It really depends.
I will say that the singlefamily homes definitely move a
lot faster than land in general.
Just because it's more of aknown commodity and more of a an
asset that people usecontinually every day.
Meanwhile, land has to be moreso improved.
So we find that infill lots aregonna be the fastest.

(14:57):
Infill lots are.
Let's say you have a hundred to120 lot subdivision infill lots
are just a quarter acre lot thatyou're gonna find next door.
To you in Jacksonville, right?
So those are infill lots.
We, we work more in ruralrecreational land, which is five
acres plus.
So you're going to find alldifferent builds and shapes and

(15:18):
sizes for these lands, but It'sprobably going to take a little
bit more time to sell unlessyou're in a really hot market.
So this property is in HillCounty, Texas, which is a very
hot market in Texas.
So we're thinking a lot of timesland can take three to six
months to sell.

(15:38):
We're hoping that we can sellthese in just a couple months,
if not sooner, because themarket is so highly in demand.

Mike (15:48):
So, I guess, like, how are you, like, what made you decide
to go after the RuralRecreational Five Acres Plus
versus the infill lots?

Ben (16:01):
So we found that there was just a lot of competition,
especially at the end of 2022 inthe infill lot sector, because a
lot of builders startedmarketing to our sellers.
So builders were able to pay 80to 90 percent of market value.
And when we're going in offering50 cents on the dollar for a lot
of these lots, we're just goingto be outbid by these builders

(16:24):
10 times out of 10.
But we find the builders don'treally market to these rural
recreational tracks because theyhave no use.
They want a tract of land that'salready shovel ready.
So we're working on anotherproject, an entitlement project,
on the east side of Dallas wherewe're creating these paper lots.
64 one acre lots out of an 80.

(16:46):
Plus acre tract.
And we're passing that off to ahorizontal developer who's going
to create them and grade themand scale them and get them
ready shovel ready for the endbuilder.
And that builder just wants themready to go.
They don't want to do thehorizontal development.
So they just want the lots readyto go.

(17:07):
And that's who they're going tobe marketing to is the.
Infill lots that are alreadyready to go.
So we just find there's lesscompetition when we are looking
at other competitors within themarket, especially big scale
competitors.
When you talk about the DRHorton's or the large
corporations that are publiclytraded, it's harder to compete
with them.
It's easier to compete whenyou're playing in more of a

(17:29):
local sandbox where you havemore of a chance and can have
more of an authentic trust andrapport built with the sellers
on an individual basis.

Mike (17:39):
Gotcha.
And, uh, we were talking offlinebefore, uh, about some
leadership stuff.
So do you want to share a littlebit about your leadership
background?

Ben (17:48):
For sure.
So just some context.
So we have a team of seven rightnow, and that is part of the job
that gives me so much lifebecause it's just so enjoyable
to work with other people withina business, people who you
really care about, people who,you know, you can help build
their dreams and goals.
And that's what I think is sounique, unique about small

(18:10):
business is you really feel likeyou're a team.
You feel like you're in a boatrowing together.
And my goal is to.
Be a general of that team andjust guide everybody together
and help them see the bestversion of themselves.
Because I know when I'm the bestversion of myself, I'm the best
contributor to my team.

(18:31):
So my hope is that if I can helpeverybody else become the best
version of themselves, they'regoing to bring their best to our
company as well.
So where does my leadershipbackground start?
It starts in 2014, 2014.
I was nominated by my highschool guidance counselor to be
our representative from my highschool to a leadership camp

(18:54):
called Hugh O'Brien youthleadership.
It's called H O B Y Hobie.
And I went in 2014.
So I went to Hobie, Indianacause I'm from Indiana
originally.
It happened in Indianapolis,Indiana, and I went for four
days and learned all aboutleadership.
Now I was just a sophomore inhigh school going into my junior

(19:15):
year of high school.
And I really had no idea whatleadership was about.
I was more of a shy, reservedkid at this time.
And I didn't really think.
See myself as a leader withinthe community, but that's where
leadership really came into mylife because I got to go to this
camp and they talked about thedifferent types of leaders,

(19:35):
about how there are so manydifferent archetypes of leaders
and how every archetype isimportant and how no matter who
you are or how you're wired orhow you're built, you can be,
you can make a significantcontribution to any team, any
group, any community.
Any community you find yourselfwithin.
So that was important for me tosee that.

(19:56):
Oh, yes.
I'm very detail oriented.
I like spending more time bymyself But I can also make a
significant contribution to ateam if I understand everybody
else And help put the piecestogether as best we can.
So fast forward from 2014, Ivolunteered for seven years
after that and went back to thecamp and helped volunteer with

(20:21):
the camp to give back.
So I would be in various rolesthroughout the years, just
trying to, uh, Put on theseminar every year.
And finally, the last two yearsI got to have my own group and
that was such a blessing becauseI got to see it from the other
side of being a facilitator ofthese high school sophomores and
speak into them, this leadershipconcept that, Hey, you are

(20:43):
great.
You are more, you, you can be aleader and just seeing so much
potential within them andhelping them realize that
potential.
So I learned so much from thatcamp.
That I have then taken a lot ofthat and repurposed it within
the business.
So we like to use two mainpersonality tests.
We like to use Myers Briggs andEnneagram.

(21:05):
Those are the two main tests welive by because Ajay and I love
them personally to use in ourpersonal relationships.
So we feel like it's been goodto use them in our business
relationships as well.
So everybody that joins ourteam, they take the Myers Briggs
assessment and they take theEnneagram assessment as well.
And what I do as a COO, I feellike it's my duty to understand

(21:27):
the team as best as I can.
So what I do is every timesomebody joins our company, I
read through their entireassessments and understand,
okay, how, how do they want tobe treated?
What do they need?
What are they motivated,motivated by?
And how are they going to bemost fulfilled within their
role?
Because I want them to feel likethey are coming like their true
selves to the, to the table.

(21:48):
And don't feel like they need toput on a mask when they're with
our company.
That's the goal.
So I read, I read through theMyers Briggs.
I see the Enneagram.
The Enneagram also has a greattree of how Enneagrams work with
other types of Enneagrams.
So it helps me understand howcertain people are going to work
with each other within the team.
So maybe one person will workbetter with this person, or

(22:10):
maybe this person won't workwell with this person.
So then we put, We interchangeall these pieces.
So I really see my team as likeall these interchangeable parts
of how they can be mosteffectively working together
within a daily basis and, andoperationally how they can best
be utilizing their fullpotential.

(22:30):
So I try to understand my teamas best as I can.
And then keep them motivated andalso show them, Hey, this is the
future vision I have for you.
I think you can be great.
Let's get you there.
I'm going to challenge you in acouple of these areas and it's
going to be a little bituncomfortable, but discomfort is
where we have the most growth.
So I'm going to challenge you inways that will seem weird, but

(22:52):
trust me, you're going to bemuch better because of it.
And I have so much belief, somuch trust in you that you're
going to be so good.
And I can't wait to see thisnext version of you and where it
takes you in our business.

Mike (23:05):
I, I've never really heard of the Enneagram.
So what does that do that'sdifferent than the Myers Briggs?

Ben (23:11):
Yeah, so the Enneagram really gets into motivations.
Who do you want to be as aperson?
So it's Enneagram Institute, E NN E A G R A M.
They have plenty of freeassessments on there.
But we have a lot of type 1s,type 2s, and type 7s, just for
an example.

(23:31):
So type 1 is a perfectionist.
Type 2 is a helper.
And type seven is an enthusiast.
Okay.
Aja is our only type seven andhe's the enthusiast and we love
him for it.
So the type seven is the funperson.
They want to have fun.
They want to be, they want tohave variety.
They want to enjoy and have alot of fun within their lives,
right?
The type one is theperfectionist.
The perfectionist wants to makesure that the systems are

(23:54):
running perfectly, thateverything in their life.
is set and routine based andthey're very disciplined and
they're going to continue toshow up as themselves and try to
get better every single day.
I'm a type one.
And then type twos are helpers.
Helpers want to contribute andhelp as much as they can,
sometimes even to the detrimentof, of their own incentives.

(24:16):
So they'll try to help and giveas much assistance in whatever
way they can.
So a couple of our team membersare so good at just always being
ready.
Like whatever we need, they'llstep in and they'll help.
And that's just so helpful tohave within a business because
you're always having to stayadaptable.
You never know what the nextmonth is going to look like
because you always come into newchallenges.

(24:38):
So having type twos on the teamhas been so valuable for us to
know that whatever comes andwhat, whatever challenges come
across, we're going to We'llhave people ready to help
because people are always readyfor a new challenge.
So we're really happy and proudof the makeup that we have right
now on our team.
But like I said, justunderstanding those motivations
and understanding thosepersonality assessments for me
as a leader of the company, Ithink is, like I said, is my

(25:00):
duty to understand, okay, whatdo people want out of their
daily lives?
How do we make sure that whatthey're doing on a daily basis
at work is fulfilling them andserving their purpose?

Mike (25:12):
And then, um, what, what, uh, what profile your
salespeople?
I'm curious.

Ben (25:19):
What pro profile are our salespeople?
So.

Mike (25:21):
profile?
Yeah.

Ben (25:23):
our acquisitions manager is a type two, so she's a helper.
And then our dispositionsmanager is a type one, a
perfectionist.
Yeah.
So I like to say that there isno right type.
For a role, because we reallyfeel like you can train up

(25:44):
skills, but you can't train corevalues.
So we always hire by our corevalues, enthusiasm,
dependability, and growth.
And we know that no matter whatpersonality type we have in
those roles, we know that ifthey bring the core values to
the table, we can train them up.
I also think it's something youcan consider when you're hiring

(26:06):
as well.
I mean, I like to think ofacquisitions more as like lion
personalities.
When you think of just theanimal kingdom and then similar
with dispositions managers, youprobably want more of a lion
personality, but in terms oflike lead managers, I like to
think of more like a goldenretriever.
So lead manager is what somepeople call intake managers.
People will just build therapport on that first call with

(26:28):
sellers.
I like to think of more likegolden retriever energy, where
you're just getting to know theperson.
Maybe you spend 30 minutes onthe phone, just building that
rapport, talking about dogs,talking about colleges, talking
about high schools, whatever.
Just spending time with thatperson.
And that's really where thegolden retriever energy, I think
comes into play and is reallyimportant for that front end,

(26:51):
whereas opposed to when you'regetting into negotiations, you
need a bit more of an aggressiveapproach where you're more
fighting for your price.
Which may be harder for thegolden retriever personality to
do.
That's, so that's where we get alot more specialized within our
company because we have a lot ofspecialized roles and I feel

(27:12):
like that has been effective forus to treat the various pieces
of our pipeline in differentways, based on what personality
type we have sitting in eachseat.

Mike (27:23):
gotcha.
And then what about your hiringprocess?
Because obviously part of beinga good leader is hiring the
right people to start.

Ben (27:33):
Absolutely.
And definitely a big piece toois firing.
So we, we fire, we have fired,unfortunately, three people.
Uh, within our company and weare not slow to fire.
We are fast to fire.
So unfortunately we had to letsomeone go the day we hired
them.
We had to let another person goa week after we hired them, but
we are so.

(27:54):
Intent on our core values.
Like I said, that if people donot fit our core values, they
will not last long here.
And we have such a great teamthat has instilled in
themselves, our core values,that is just such an innate,
natural piece of our culturethat if somebody comes into our

(28:14):
company and doesn't exhibitthose core values, it's like
scratching a chalkboard.
You can tell right away whenpeople don't fit.
And that has been so helpful forus to kind of weed out the
people that don't have a longterm future here.
But when it comes to the hiringprocess, I can kind of break
down how we go through ourprocess.

(28:35):
So it starts first with thegroup interview.
So we have some pre screensbefore the group interview with
someone on our team, just afive, 10 minute phone call to
make sure that people arequalified for the group
interview.
And they have to pass throughall these detailed tests through
our job descriptions.
Say you love your favorite foodor your favorite color.
You gotta, you gotta send thoseto us in your response email.

(28:58):
That way we know you're detailoriented and are not just
clicking apply, apply, apply,apply, apply, right?
We want to make sure thatpeople, we also have a loom
video on our job listings.
So people will watch that loomvideo.
And hopefully resonate withsomething.
Usually it's Ajay giving thepresentation.
Hey, these are our core values.
We hope that people will gothrough our job listing and

(29:18):
resonate with that loom videoand want to apply to our
position.
So then once we get through thatscreening process, five to 10
minute phone call, we go intothat group interview in that
group interview.
It's going to be 10 to 15applicants that we send an
invitation to, because noteverybody's going to show up
because people are applying tojobs all the time.
People are getting jobs all thetime while they're applying to

(29:39):
jobs.
So.
We, we assume about 60 percentof those people are going to
show up.
So six to 10 people are going toshow up for that group
interview.
And we're going to knowimmediately who's qualified for
that next round, just based onvibes, based on values, based on
answers to the questions.
So then people who are qualifiedfrom the group interview, one to

(30:03):
two to three, we'll getindividual one on one interviews
with me and Ajay

Mike (30:08):
Okay.

Ben (30:09):
all of our questions, Mike, within our hiring process are
based on our core values,enthusiasm, dependability, and
growth.
And so we may not say themexplicitly.
We're not going to ask, Oh, areyou enthusiastic?
Oh, are you dependable?
No, we're going to ask it indifferent ways, you know,
throughout the interviewprocess, maybe eight to eight to
10 questions for these peoplethat are applying in different

(30:32):
ways.
Oh, well, what is something youreally enjoy doing?
And then we're going to see, Oh,do they light up when they talk
about books?
Oh, do they light up when theytalk about kayaking?
Whatever their, Excited about.
We want to hear that excitementbecause we want them to have
that same excitement when theycome to work.
And then we have dependability.
What would your, what would yourcoworkers say about you in the

(30:52):
past?
Because we want to hear, Oh yes.
My coworkers would say, I showup every day and I do this, the
things that I say I'm going todo.
And then growth.
What do you feel like you'relearning about right now?
Oh, I love learning aboutnutrition or something like
that.
Oh, okay, great.
So you're always learning.
You're always trying to do newthings.
That's exactly the type ofpeople that work here at assets

(31:12):
for acres.
Right.
So then from there, we may givean offer to one or two people
out of those one on oneinterviews.
We may give an offer to zero ofthose people from those one on
one interviews.
We, we, it's hard to know.
It's never going to be the sameprocess because it's just very
much like sales.
You're always going to have apipeline of people.
Some will convert, some won'tconvert.
So we go through that process.

(31:33):
And then once the people arehired, they've signed their
contract with us.
We then onboard them.
And part of the onboardingprocess is going to the core
values once again.
And then we highlight.
Okay.
These are some of the rules wehave within the business.
We use the one three, one three,one rule by Dan Martell.
You have one problem.
If you have a problem state,what the problem is, you have

(31:54):
three suggestions for me beforeyou come to me.
And then you have onerecommendation of those three
suggestions of how you wouldsolve the problem once you bring
the problem to me.
So that's part of our process ofonboarding is, Hey, we, we
instill this within our companybecause we think we have problem
solvers within our company.
Okay.
Ajay and I don't solve all theproblems within our business.

(32:15):
Our company solves the problemswithin the business as a
collective unit, as a group.
And that's what the goal is ofthis whole process is to make
sure that we have an autonomousteam that is continually pushing
the business forward alltogether, not on one person's
shoulders, but all as acollective unit, because we are
rowing the boat as a team.

(32:36):
That's the

Mike (32:36):
Yeah.
What, like, what kind ofquestions are you, is it similar
questions on that groupinterview?
And like, how do you kind ofhandle that?
I mean, you got 10 people inlike a zoom room or something
that could feel like a littlehectic.
Like, how do you structure that?

Ben (32:51):
Yeah, like I said, so you usually only have six to ten
people within that thirty toforty five minute interview And
you'll find very quickly thatsome people just have one to two
word answers.
So we ask Two to three to fourquestions of those six to 10
people in that group interview.
And you'll tell very quickly whois engaged, who's ready to go,

(33:13):
who's ready to attack the day,who is very excited to come to
that interview because you mayhave some people who are sitting
in that interview and justhaphazardly showed up and really
don't want to be there.
And you'll tell right away.
So it's very, very telling onthat group interview, who's
ready to, who's ready to go andwho's ready to go to the next
level.
And that 30 to 45 minute groupinterview has proven to be very

(33:36):
effective for us to save a lotof time on the front end, to
weed out candidates who are justnot qualified and not ready to
go to the next level with us.

Mike (33:44):
So if you have a, like, you know, two to four questions,
are you asking the question andthen saying, candidate one, give
your answer, candidate two, giveyour answer to the same question
is, is that how it works or?

Ben (33:55):
Exactly.
Exactly that.
And we'll usually go in the sameorder for the group.
We'll start with Joe and then goto John and then go to Sarah.
And then the next question,we'll say, okay, Joe, you start
us off again and then go to Johnand then go to Sarah.
That was very consistent.
And everybody gets time.
And if anybody's going too long,we'll say, Oh, sorry, Joe, it's
been two or three minutes.

(34:16):
We're going to have to go to thenext person, but thank you for
your response, just so that wecan keep things moving and
everyone gets time to say theresponses, but I mean, we've
even had people leave mid callduring interviews because they
just.
Ready to do the thing.
So you never really know what'sgoing to happen throughout that

(34:36):
interview, but we want to makesure we at least give everybody
a couple of minutes on eachquestion to prove that they're
ready for the next round.
And like I said, we'll tellvery, very quickly who's ready
to go to the next round, justbased on vibes and based on if
they're ready to show up.

Mike (34:54):
Gotcha.
And then you mentioned a littlebit about onboarding, what you
said with kind of the DanMartell role.
What else do you feel is acentral part of onboarding for
you?

Ben (35:04):
Yeah.
So I give like a fullpresentation.
I have a full PowerPoint.
Presentation that I give everytime someone joins our team with
our core values and ourdefinitions on our core values.
And then we break down thestrategies within the business.
Why we do what we do.
What, what is land?
Why do we trade land?

(35:25):
We have several podcasts thatAjay and I have been on that we
use as training.
To say, Hey, this is what we doon a daily basis.
This is what we believe in.
Learn a little bit more aboutour company through the owner's
interviews and then give us someof your takeaways.
And then from there we'llexplain more about the job, what
the individual job looks likeand give specific training on

(35:48):
that job.
So let's say we have a leadmanager join the team.
We'll give them lead managercalls, sample calls that other
people have done before.
And say, Hey, listen to these,let me know if you have any
questions, you're going to bedoing a lot of this on a daily
basis, we want to make surewe're getting this right.
So making sure that we're notrushing people into the

(36:09):
business, but also pushing themenough to say, Hey, you're going
to be making calls by Wednesday.
That's the hope we need to makesure we have any questions
ironed out before Wednesday.
So we want to make sure you haveas many resources as you need to
be successful.
And we always say, who's themost important person in charge
of your success at this company?

(36:29):
And our hope is that the answeris always going to be me, right?
Not, not me, Ben, but me, theperson on the other side of that
call.
Right?
So that's the goal is everyperson that comes through the
business.
We talk about autonomy.
We want to have a group ofworkers on.
It within our company that areautonomous and happy to show up
every day for work and takingownership of their role and

(36:52):
taking ownership of the resultsand taking responsibility for
pushing their side of thebusiness forward.
Because we know we, we do thatin our position and we hope that
everybody who comes to work forus does the exact same when they
join assets for acres.

Mike (37:07):
Gotcha.
And then like, as you, you know,have people working for you and
probably some people work foryou for quite a long time, like,
how are you making sure thatyou're continuing to be an
amazing leader to them?

Ben (37:20):
I always.
Like to say to people that askedme about leadership, what are
you doing to be a leader thatyou would follow?
Because that's a question thatI'm asking myself continually
every single day.
I know that I push myself harderthan anybody could possibly push
me because I have thesestandards that are so high for

(37:42):
myself.
So I know that I have to be agood role model and a good
example for the rest of my team.
So I push myself so hard.
I have no vices.
I go to the gym six out of sevendays a week.
I eat very healthfully and Imake sure that I am in a
position to show up every singleday and give my best version to

(38:03):
the team.
And I know if I'm doing that,it's going to raise everybody
else's standards to meet me.
Now I also give some grace forpeople because I don't expect
everybody to have the samestandards that I have.
And that's, that's an importantaspect of being a leader as well
as you need to have empathy.
And I know everybody has adifferent situation within our

(38:23):
team and I'm going to meet themwhere they are, but I'm going to
push them just a little bitmore, just a little bit, because
I know that where they couldpossibly get to.
far off from where they areright now.
They just need a little bit of apush and I'm going to be willing
to give them that push.
We have quarterly check ins,quarterly one on ones every

(38:45):
quarter, and that's myopportunity to give each of my
team members a little bit of apush because we talk about, Hey,
where you are from the pastquarter, where are you going
into this coming quarter?
What can we do to continue touplevel you?
And that's, that's always agreat opportunity to say, Hey, I
think this might be a littlechallenge for you.

(39:07):
What do you think about this?
Do you think, do you think thisis a worthwhile thing to take
on?
Yes or no.
Do I have your permission tochallenge you a bit?
Yes or no.
Okay, great.
Let's try to get there togetherbecause it's not just me trying
to push my team.
It's me trying to push my teamto push themselves.
And that's the beauty in it.
If I can get them to raise theirstandards for themselves, then

(39:27):
that's, that's a goalaccomplished for me.
Because I want to see everybodyliving their best lives and
proud to be who they are,because I know I'm proud of
where I've gotten, but I know Ihave so much further to push and
I hope everyone else around mefeels the same.
And that's a goal for me as aleader.

Mike (39:44):
Gotcha.
And then how you said meetingpeople where they are, how are
you figuring out?
they are.

Ben (39:52):
Yeah.
I feel like it just comes downto listening.
Being an active leader within abusiness requires active
listening.
Active leadership is activelistening.
So we have weekly calls.
We have, we call them weeklyculture calls where we share
with wins on a weekly basis withthe team.

(40:14):
We also have a weekly team timeteam team time time where just
the team meets without us.
So we put a lot of

Mike (40:24):
without the leadership.

Ben (40:26):
exactly.
So we put a lot of emphasis onour team bonding, not only with
us as owners, but withthemselves individually as a
team.
So.
Like I said, when it comes toactive listening, when a team
member tells us that they'restruggling with something or
they're pushing or pursuingsomething outside of the

(40:47):
business, we're going tocelebrate them and we're going
to be excited for them pushingthemselves or really trying
their best to show up even onhard days, because we really
consider ourselves to.
Be a full team of leaders.
Every person within our companyis a leader.

(41:10):
So we want to make sure we'reunderstanding that we are
serving our team as best as wecan.
So I always ask within ourquarterly one on ones, are we
serving your professional goals?
Right now as a company, if yes,grace, if not, how can we serve
you better?
Are we serving your personalgoals right now?
If yes, in what ways are weserving your personal goals?

(41:32):
If not, how can we serve youbetter?
So that's a question I ask everysingle person in our quarterly
one on ones every singlequarter.
So that's the opportunity for meto understand, okay, are you,
are you doing okay in terms ofyour fitness goals?
Are you doing okay in terms ofyour financial goals?
Are you doing okay in terms ofyour family goals?
Yes or no.
How can we serve you and supportyou in a better way to help you

(41:55):
get to that place that you wantto be?
Because that's our goal at theend of the day is that our
business serves our company andour, our, and our workers as
much as it serves our clients.

Mike (42:07):
Yeah.
And then you mentioned like thepersonal goals.
So what are you doing to helpidentify?
Because sometimes like peoplestart working for you like and
people don't have goals.
Right.
They may be driven, but like,they've never actually like sat
down and like I thought abouttheir goals.
So I'll start with how are youhelping them identify their

(42:29):
personal goals?

Ben (42:30):
Yeah, I think that really started at the beginning of the
year, and I think it alwaysstarts at the beginning of the
year, because when you get it tothe beginning of the year,
everyone's in New Year'sresolution mode setting, right?
So when everyone else is in thatsetting, it makes it easier to
fall into that setting.
So we had several conversationsat the beginning of the year

(42:52):
with our team around goalsetting.
What are your goals for theyear?
Where do you want to get to?
Where did we go last year?
And what are some reasonablegoals here for this year?
And then from there, that'swhere the quarterly check ins
are super important to make surethat, Hey, I noticed you
mentioned this at the beginningof the year.
Are you still tracking on that?
Are you still pursuing that?

(43:13):
Are you still On track to get toa certain milestone that you
were hoping to buy this point inthe year if yes, great, if no,
what do we need to do to helpyou get there?
And just taking time to really,like I said, listen to the
person because goals may change.
Goals always change.

(43:34):
Sometimes they may changethroughout the year and if a
goal has changed and I'm notaware of it and I'm trying to
serve a goal that is no longer agoal that my teammate is trying
to pursue.
Then I need to be back inalignment with that goal.
And that's where I think a lotof that personality
understanding comes into play iswhen you understand the

(43:54):
personality of the person, youcan understand, okay, I see a
change here.
I see a change in motivation.
Let's talk about this.
Is this still serving you?
If not, what do we need to do tochange to make sure that you're
feeling like you're valued andfeeling like we're making
progress towards where you wantto go?
Because our hope is that everyperson that joins our company

(44:16):
has a place to grow.
And that's our job as leaderswithin the company is to set a
vision so big.
And this is something that Ajayputs, pushes me on so well.
Is he's always challenging me onwhat's our Mount Everest for the
year.
Do we have a big enough MountEverest that everybody else's
dreams and goals can fit withinour Mount Everest?

(44:41):
And that's a hard challenge topush for, but that's, that's
That's the hard that we want isto have a hard challenge to push
so big that we have thatcapacity for everyone else to
have big dreams within ourcompany.

Mike (44:56):
guys mostly remote?
Uh

Ben (44:59):
That's correct.
So me and Ajay, we are in thesame house right now.
Um, and so we've been workingtogether physically here, which
has been phenomenal.
I think it's just dynamite whenyou can be in the same location
as your business partner andanybody else on your team.
So that's been phenomenal forus.
We have two other.
Three other people in the U Swho are spaced throughout the U

(45:21):
S geographically.
So they are virtual.
And then four overseas in thePhilippines who actually visited
in May.
So I have met them in person andthen we were having, uh, have an
event September 27th and 28thhere in Dallas.
And I'll be able to meet therest of our team here in Dallas.
So 2024 will be the year thatI'll be able to meet every

(45:41):
person from assets for acres.
In person.
And I'm super stoked for thatbecause I had such a great time
meeting our team in thePhilippines, just connecting
with them, understanding theirculture, just hearing their
language and being with them,being present.
I was able to go for a teammember's wedding.
So being able to be a part ofthat experience for something
that she'll remember for therest of her life, and just be

(46:03):
able to share that with her andher family and the rest of the
team from the Philippines cameto that wedding as well, and
attended.
And we all got together and justspent that the, those couple of
days there together, justcelebrating her and celebrating
what we've built so far atassets for acres.
So we had a lot of fun overthere.
I'm glad I was able to meeteverybody in person because I

(46:24):
feel like that human to humaninteraction is so valuable.
You get that time to really beface to face and just really.
Show people that you care aboutthem, you know, spending time,
no phones, just sitting andbeing with each other.
Just having those hours was sovaluable and it was such a, such
a rewarding experience to goover there.

(46:45):
So I'm excited for the 27th and28th when I get to meet the rest
of our team in person, because Iknow that'll be so valuable as
well.

Mike (46:54):
Excuse me.
What, um, specific challengesyou feel that you face from a
leadership perspective with aremote team and how have you
overcome those challenges?

Ben (47:10):
I feel like this is a big thing I've been working on this
year, Mike, because.
With leadership, you're alwayslearning, you're always trying
to get better.
There's always some new spotthat you can learn more about,
and that's the beauty of it.
It's never complete.
Just like business, it's nevercomplete.
And you're always learning,always growing, always getting
better.

(47:30):
So this year, my challenge hasbeen To more so relinquish
control of a lot of tasks andlet things go from my plate that
I know my team is capable ofdoing, but maybe that I have
trouble letting go.
So a lot of that has come downto giving trust to my team,

(47:52):
believing in my team.
Telling my team, Hey, I thinkyou have the information you
need here.
I trust you to make the rightdecision.
I believe in you to make theright decision.
You just tell me when you makethe decision and what the
decision is, and we'll moveforward from there because I had
to take myself out of being theapprover or the approval person

(48:15):
and put myself into being acollaborator as opposed to the
person with the answers.
So I decided to take more of astep back and say, Hey, I don't
know everything.
I think my team knows a lot morein a lot of ways than I do in
many situations within thebusiness.
And I think they'll make abetter decision than I would.

(48:36):
And I'm going to let them knowthat.
So I've had to have a lot ofgrowth this year in terms of
just saying, Hey, I honestlydon't know what the right
decision is here, but I thinkyou do.
And I'm going to let you makethat decision and we're going to
be okay with whatever happensfrom that decision.
And we're going to move forwardand I'm excited for the decision
you're going to make, because Ithink you're going to make the

(48:57):
right decision and we'll seewhere that takes us.

Mike (49:00):
Hmm.
What other challenges have youfaced with a remote team?

Ben (49:06):
With the remote team, also just not having that daily
interaction where you see eachother, where you have that face
to face interaction, whereyou're learning about each
other's families, we have to bereally intentional about that
culture meeting to say, we have30 minutes for wins every week.
Everyone shares their wins fromthe week.

(49:29):
And that's where we've just hadto really be adaptable to give
that time.
Yes.
It might be important time togenerate leads, to have sales
calls, but we, we really thinkthat that culture time is
essential to us just getting toknow.
Everybody on the team.
So I think we've just had to bereally strategic about the time

(49:49):
for those meetings.
We've actually cut down a lot ofour meeting time because we got
some feedback from the team.
We used to have daily standupsMonday through Thursday with the
entire team.
And I got some feedback in ourquarterly one on ones.
That's why the quarterly one onones are so good that our team
said, Hey, I don't thinkeverybody needs to be on these
standups every single day.

(50:10):
I think it might be wasting somepeople's time.
And I think it might be betterif you only have a couple of
people on the standup every day.
And then the people who don'thave problems can just go and do
their work and generate leads.
So that's where I said, okay, Imay have started the daily
standups, but I'm not going tosay we have to do the daily
standups every day witheverybody because that's not

(50:32):
serving everybody, especiallywhen I get that feedback.
So I hear that and I say, okay,that's great feedback.
Let's adjust.
And it's been an adjustmentperiod, especially for me,
because I was so used to everyday.
Having this full daily meeting.
So now saying, okay, let'sadjust a bit.
Let's see if these meetings areactually serving the team.

(50:53):
And if we're actually gettingbetter, if we're actually
solving problems every day, orif we're just reporting, because
reporting versus problem solvingis a very different thing.
Reporting can be done on aspreadsheet and problem solving
cannot be done on a spreadsheet.
So it's a very differentapproach.
And I think that's been helpfulfor me to kind of understand,

(51:13):
okay.
Daily standups every day, maybearen't exactly what we need.
But that's why I try to get thefeedback from the team because
the team is in charge of theirsuccess.
And when they're in charge oftheir success, they're gonna
bring me issues of roadblocksthat are getting in, in the way
of their success.
And that daily standup wasgetting in the way of their
success.
And my job as a leader is totake away roadblocks as to put,

(51:35):
as opposed to putting roadblocksin front of our team.

Mike (51:40):
that's a really good point.
Um, we're getting close to theend here and there's always two
questions I like to ask at theend versus just kind of a fun
one, which is, what is thecraziest or most uncomfortable
situation that you've everexperienced in a real estate
deal?

Ben (51:57):
So the craziest story we have is from a property in
Texas, a vacant piece of land.
It's in Hidalgo County, which ison the Southern tip of Texas.
It was a small 0.
2 acre lot in Hidalgo County,Texas.
And we were double closing thislot.
We were going to make about.
5, 000 on it.

(52:18):
So not a huge spread for us.
We typically try to do between000 on our double closes.
So this was much, much on thesmaller scale for us in terms of
double closes.
So we were having issues withthe surveyor getting out there.
So he goes out to the propertyand he says, well, there's a
full fence up in front of theproperty and I can't get behind

(52:39):
the fence cause it was allbarbed wire and it was all the
way along from one wall propertyto the next wall of the next
neighbor's property.
You had a fence in that wholeportion and it was all barbed
wire.
And he said, there's no way Ican get on the property to
survey it.
And we said, okay, well that's afair issue.
Yeah.
You probably can't get in thereto do the full survey.

(53:02):
So we went on Craigslist and wehired somebody to take down the
fence.
Well, that person goes out thereday of, takes down the fence,
And then he texts us a photo ofa cow.
Now this, mind you, this is inthe middle of a small town city.

(53:23):
This is just a regularsubdivision, like normal single
family homes.
And there's just a cow on thisless than quarter acre lot
sitting there.
And he said, What do you want meto do about the cow?
And we said, well, we didn'tknow there was a cow on there.
So he says, well, there's a cowand it's tied up.

(53:45):
So it looks like it should befine, but I took down the fence
and I just wanted you to beaware of that.
So a couple of minutes later.
He gives us a call again.
It's the neighbor.
Apparently it's the neighbor'scow and the neighbor does not
speak spanish But luckily he hasa friend there or he does not
speak english But luckily he hasa friend there who does speak
english.

(54:05):
So his friend gets on the phonewith me He says oh, yes, sir.
It's it's our cow.
Um, do you need us to take thecow off the property?
I said, uh, yes, please.
Yes.
We need you to take off the cowfrom the property He said oh,
okay.
Okay.
Yeah, we can get that taken offtoday.
I was like You Okay, I don'tknow how you're going to get rid
of this cow in a day.
I hope you have a trailer orsomething.
I don't, I don't need to knowwhat you, what you're doing with

(54:27):
the cow or how you're going toget rid of it or where are you
going to put it, but you do, youdo what you got to do.
So he's like, yes, sir.
I'll, I'll get rid of the cow.
So he takes the cow away and thesurveyor goes out there.
We get the property platted, weclose and we make our 5, 000.
Uh, but for, for about 24 hoursthere, we were, we were just
laughing like crazy cause we, itwas such a story that we had

(54:49):
never come across before.
So that was, that was probablyour craziest story that we've
had with, with a cow on aninfill lot in Hidalgo County,
Texas,

Mike (54:57):
I thought you were about to say that, uh, he sent you a
picture of the fence and he tookdown the neighbor's fence by
accident.
Um,

Ben (55:06):
something much more unexpected happened for us.

Mike (55:13):
well, the 2nd question I always ask, um, is if you could
go back in time, give yourself 1piece of advice when you were
looking for your 1st deal.
Knowing what, you know, now,what would you tell yourself?

Ben (55:26):
I would tell myself to purchase my first.
Property in my personal name.
I thought that building abusiness meant having a business
But now I understand that havinga business means doing business.
I'll say that again.
I thought that having a businessmeant having a business, but now

(55:47):
I understand that having abusiness means doing business.
When I first came out of thecorporate world, I didn't really
understand how you made moneywithout having a salary.
So I understood it as you haveto build a business that is
worthy of.
Doing business.
But now I understand that, okay,you have to do marketing.

(56:08):
You have to have a salesprocess.
You have to do fulfillment.
These are all the activitieswithin a business that
constitute a business.
And if I could go back in time,I would tell Ben.
In 2021 to just go through andpurchase a property in vacant
land somewhere in Texas and justbuy it in your personal name and

(56:30):
try to find a way to flip it.
And I think I would have beenmuch better served to have built
a business by doing the businessas opposed to having the
business.

Mike (56:41):
Yeah, that's a great piece of advice.
A lot of people go out and startthe LLC, get the business cards,
but haven't made a phone call toa seller yet.
So,

Ben (56:51):
Exactly.

Mike (56:52):
well, Ben, if, uh, people want to reach out to you after
the show, uh, if they havequestions for you about
leadership or maybe they want toJV some land deals, uh, how can
they go about reaching you?

Ben (57:02):
Yes.
Yes.
So the best way to get incontact with me is through my
personal Instagram.
And that's going to be at BenPijanowski.
That's B E N P I J.
A N O W S K I.
I believe we have that on thescreen right now.
So if you want to connect withme on Instagram, that would be
the best way to reach me.
And then if you want to see mein person, I'll be in Dallas

(57:25):
where we're having an event.
Ajay Sharma is throwing it.
He's my business partner,September 27th and 28th in
Dallas, Texas is, it'll becalled the land scaling summits.
And if you want to go tolandscalingsummit.
com tickets are available.
I will be speaking at thatevent, having a, Fireside chat
with Ajay just about leadership,day to day operations, routine,

(57:46):
how to run and scale andsystematize a land business.
We're going to be having a fullhour long discussion together.
Should be a lot of fun.
But if you want to meet me inperson and have a conversation
about any of these concepts I'vespoken about here with Mike
today, I would love to have achat.
I love those events.
Just getting to connect withmany different real estate
professionals.
If you're excited about land, ifyou think it's something

(58:08):
interested that you would wantto get into.
I would love to talk with you atthat event.
Like I said, it's September 27thand 28th here in Dallas, Texas.
That's landscalingsummit.
com.
We would absolutely love to haveyou and would love to see you
here.

Mike (58:22):
Awesome.
Well, Ben, thanks for being onthe show.

Ben (58:25):
Thanks for having me, Mike.
It's been a pleasure.