Building homes, building futures

Ke Nan Wang shares his transition from Navy life to managing and growing a real estate portfolio. Learn his secrets to setting clear expectations, achieving high rent collection, and building new construction homes. Ke Nan also dives into his sustainable investment strategy, effective subcontractor screening, and the power of fast payments to build strong professional relationships. 

Episode Transcript

Mike (00:00):
All right, everyone.

(00:00):
Welcome to the Real Estate GameChangers show.
I'm your host, Mike McKay, basedin Jacksonville, Florida.
And each and every week we dothis show with people who are
changing the game of real estateall over the country.
For anyone who's interested inlearning a little bit more about
what we do at my company on LoadMy Home, or interested in
learning about how to hit yourpersonal goals, We do a weekly

(00:23):
zoom call.
It's totally free.
Next Thursday at 10 AM, we'redoing one on aligning your
passion with purpose.
And we're going to share sometools with people that we use
internally to help them reachtheir personal goals.
So let us know if you want tojoin, you can check DM me on
Instagram and I'll send you thelink.
This week on the show, we haveKeenan Wang.
Keenan, welcome to the show.

Ke Nan Wang (00:44):
Thank you, Mike.
Thank you for having me.

Mike (00:46):
Absolutely.
So for the people who don't knowyou, could you tell us a little
bit about how you got into thereal estate business?
And how that's led you to whereyou are today.

Ke Nan Wang (00:59):
Yeah, sure.
So I, I think I have to go backa little bit just because I do
have a slightly a little bitdifferent background.
Basically born and raised inChina, moved to the United
States.
The United States when I was 14so essentially the immigrant,
immigrant background then middleschool, high school in the
United States, really got intothe military saw my the Top Gun

(01:24):
movie first sold me to the Navy,sold myself to the Navy.
So, Went to the Naval Academyfour years, and then somehow
then at Academy, they convincedme to, instead of go pilot, I
need to go submarine.
So I yeah, service like asubmarine, went through the
nuclear pipeline, then did aeight years active duty in in

(01:48):
the Navy.
Three years of sea duty on theWest coast, then two last two
years, who was at the Pentagonin Washington, DC saw the
echelon one operation.
Yeah, lots of basically how, howthe U S government acquire
weapons to outfit our military.

(02:11):
Then That was at my, that was ata turning point in my military
career.
A lot of people at that time,usually they think about whether
they should stay in because atthat time you are pretty much
fulfill your.
Government, your contract thenif you stay in, most people stay

(02:32):
in for the, the rest of the 20years of career.
But if you transition out, soyou will be either find a, a
civilian job, that's theequivalent at, in the, at, at
that time in DC, there was a lotof, a lot of my colleagues, so
we're getting a governmentcontractor job.
Just because the network that wehave built in that region, it's,

(02:58):
yeah, it's, it's basically youjust took off your uniform and
put on suit and tie and same,very kind of same, same time for
work.
So that was one option.
Obviously I didn't do thatoption.

Mike (03:12):
Okay.
I'm

Ke Nan Wang (03:16):
And the reason I ended up here is, um, so my
family has already have a, asmall mom and pop, a real estate
portfolio in St.
Augustine, Florida.
So my mom found out that I wasbasically thinking about that
transition.
And, and she, she essentiallyjust offered me to say like,

(03:39):
look, like based on our familyoperation here, we can afford
afford an actual, to pay anactual manager.
So essentially she offered me ajob to come home and, and that's
that's pretty much I, I look, I,I waiting my options.
Then I, I actually on theChristmas break, I came home

(04:01):
and.
And see what the operation wasat home, back home here, St.
Augustine, before that, I didn'teven know what's, what's
happening at home, because I wasso focused in the military and
my mom, like my parents, theydon't talk about too much about
operations, like what we'redoing at home.

(04:25):
But then I came home, I said,like, so I realized, like, Yes,
there is, it's like extremelymom and pop set up private
landlords, just like basicallyacquiring long term rental
properties one or two a yearover the last 20 years.
So, so basically we do have aportfolio.

(04:46):
So I, I, I saw there's a hugepotential in, in the family
business.
So I decided, yeah, I'm going,I'm going to basically at that
time, I didn't completely quitthe military.
I got out of active dutytransition into the reserve.
So I'm attached to the Naval AirStation Jacksonville.

(05:07):
So that was 2019.
I came home Then took overessentially, I think, I mean, it
wasn't really a, like a title orposition, but looking back what
I was really doing, I think it'slike, a chief operating
officer's position.
Basically I take care ofoperations of all the family

(05:27):
business.
So that's how I started in theso I, I essentially, when I
started, it was basically just aproperty management When I came
home, there was a basic, I justI want to in a military you have
like change your command.
So, so I can, I think I can likeknow that kind of procedure from

(05:50):
the military.
So if, if a new CEO come to acommand, then you have to do the
turnover.
So I treat it like that.
The thing is you don't want anykind of like, ambiguity about
like who's in charge, right?
So like the new CEO has come onboard, the old CEO is stepping
off.
So you need to actually set thetone right.

(06:11):
So right now we have a portfolioof rental properties with
tenants.
Then I, I just got out ofmilitary, have no experience in
property management, but I haveto set the tone right.
So, so pretty much I just Ithink I, I remember I I wrote
the first letter and send it toall the tenants and say, so I

(06:32):
was, that was mid April and Isay by May 1st I will be your
main point of contact from thaton.
So that was my first steptransition.
So started in propertymanagement.
If you have any questions, so Ihear, yeah, you can go ahead.
but that was a starting point.

Mike (06:52):
some of the challenges of like transitioning from
military, right.
What you were doing for a longtime to civilian work or
civilian life.

Ke Nan Wang (07:02):
Definitely the big, it's a mind mindset change in
the military, especially in thenew world, it's extremely black
and white.
It's like, you have the book,you have the procedure, you
follow the procedure to the T,and if anything wrong, then it's

(07:26):
like, we actually do a veryserious critiques on any of the
mistakes because you talk aboutPotential serious personnel
injury or equipment damage,hundreds of thousands or million
dollars of equipment damage ifyou don't follow procedures.
So we had the mindset of veryblack and white that I had

(07:49):
initially when I come home, thatwas kind of my mindset, but
overall I adapted, adapted veryquickly in the civilian worlds.
Yeah, you, you play a lot of inthe gray areas and at the end of
the day, it is all about gettingthings down, achieving your
goals, and meeting your, achieveyour next, next milestone.

(08:14):
So, so yeah, we, I definitelyhave become a much more fluid,
more like water with, this is avery much a personal judgment
call.
It's, it's like you learn thisfrom experience, right?
Like same, same as yourself.
So like sometimes you, you haveto know like what, when to push,

(08:38):
when to give.
I think my key, my key principleis always I want to achieve a
win-win.
So, so that would be my.
my my end goal for, for prettymuch all of the decisions I, Try
to make, it's always a try toachieve a win win for all
parties.

(08:59):
So, so basically that's the endgoal.
Then I'm always the willing totalk and work out solutions for
with people.
So.
Yeah, you could imagine likewhen I first came home, like
basically my, my tenant pool.
So, yeah, I, I was doing a lotof like, if you basically we had

(09:22):
about 70 percent of a collectionon rent rules.
So, So that one didn't, didn'twork for me because my, my dad
was my dad was the propertymanager before I took over.
And and he's a very laid back.
And I, I see there are a lot ofmom and pop landlords operating
like that.
They just, they Don't want tohave the hard conversation with

(09:45):
tenants and sometimes tenantstake advantage of that.
I think when I came home, it wastoo much of black and white, but
then later on, I adapted.
To how to be flexible because,and like things that happens in
life.
So, basically, yeah, basicallyyou get, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm

(10:08):
sorry.

Mike (10:09):
No, you're

Ke Nan Wang (10:09):
a question.

Mike (10:10):
How did you, so like, obviously 70 percent collection
rate isn't great.
Like how did you, like, whatwere the steps you took to
increase that?

Ke Nan Wang (10:20):
Well, it's basically for me it was
eviction.

Mike (10:24):
Okay.
Yeah.

Ke Nan Wang (10:25):
I, yeah, I, I mean, there were, I, I did kicked out
a couple of tenants where Ithink like in today, I probably
wouldn't kick them out.
So, but, but basically I wasblack and white, like, so if
you're not paying rents, I filedthe I post a three day notice
and.
If you don't meet the deadline,I'll file eviction.

(10:48):
So luckily, St.
John's County, I, yeah, in thefirst couple of years into the
business, I did a lot ofevictions.
So, so I'm like, I have noproblem with doing evictions.
And, but nowadays I rarely doevictions.
I have, I don't even rememberthe last time I did an eviction.

(11:10):
Just because And right nowthere's, I have a hundred, a
hundred percent rightconnection.
I'm a much more effectivelandlord now.
Just just a way.
So, yeah,

Mike (11:21):
What did you change to be able to get from having to do
all these evictions to at a 70percent collection rate?
Now you've got 100 percentcollection rate and you can't
remember the last time you didan eviction.
Like what changed in yourprocess to allow you to get
there?

Ke Nan Wang (11:36):
No, first is a definitely a much better
screening.
Screening.
And I also, I, I have tweakedthat process as well.
Before I basically, I took theblack and white approach.
So I set my requirements, thecredit score, income, eviction
records, all that.
So if you.

(11:57):
Don't need that requirement thatI say, bye bye.
And I know there are a lot ofproperty management like that.
That's not nothing wrong withthem because I do manage
property for other people.
I think it's much easier if youmanage for other people, you set
requirements.
And then if people don't meetthat requirement, instead of

(12:17):
taking on the liability of arent commence, a bad tenant to a
property owner, You just, just,just have them say bye bye,
right?
But for us, like privatelandlords, we have much more
flexibility on our decisionmaking.
And I do believe that just basedon my experience, I say 90

(12:40):
percent of the people are alwaystrying to do the right thing.
This is based on my experience.
Sometimes people get stuck inthe rud.
Yeah.
Then at that time, you do haveto see like their, their, the
personal history, right?
If, if someone who's gonna dotheir best to, to make payment

(13:02):
and sometimes something badhappens and they can't make it,
that's a decision point that youhave to make.
They say, okay, this is kind oflike a one time thing.
I let them, I work with them.
But if you see someone who'strying to take advantage of you,
try to play the system, and thenI have no tolerance for that.

(13:23):
So, so that is the black andwhite, if you don't meet the
deadline, you gotta go.
So, but right now, just becauseI, During the tenant screening
I, I basically, I don't, ifpeople have problems, I always
put it in the, in thedescription where I'm willing to

(13:44):
negotiate with more deposit paidupfront.
So.
So basically if I, if I'm takingon the risk, I want to reward it
for that risk that I'm taking.
So basically I look at like, sothe, the advertised rent is for
a tenant that meet myrequirement.
So that, that's the, that's thereturn on investment that are

(14:08):
assigned to a, a certain amountof risk.
So if I have someone who is lessqualified then I will always see
their, like why they're lessqualified.
Usually I can, I can, right nowI'm good enough, I have a good
read on people, that I can justtell, tell doing the showing.

(14:30):
I use the showing as a, as aninterview process.
A lot of people don't know that.
Like I just, like I set up ashowing, then at the showing, I
just casually ask there somequestions, like, why are you
moving?
Where are you from?
What do you do for work?
And you can, that's actually myinterview but people don't know
that.

(14:50):
yeah.
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (14:57):
yeah.

Ke Nan Wang (14:59):
yeah.
And, and then people like ifthey talk about if, if they,
like, a big reflect to me, it isif they talk about the, the past
landlord then I, I I, Ibasically, yeah, like, how they
complain about their pastlandlord That that's that's a, I
mean, I do have a lot of peoplecomplain to me about their past

(15:23):
landlords.
I, I, I always play with them.
I say, yeah that sucks but I'mmentally writing them up.

Mike (15:36):
Interesting.

Ke Nan Wang (15:37):
But one is, one is a a very I guess a robust
screening process.
And then another thing is a setthe tomb, right.
from the get go.
So I'm, I'm more about havingthe tone right.
And if we start to have arelationship, then I can be more

(15:58):
flexible.
And usually I'm, I'm always verynice about cordial about things
that like, so it say like, if afirst tenant, I just placed in,
and I know the month the rent iscoming up.
And then if a lot of peopleactually proactively ask me
about rent payment, how to setup payment, those things that I

(16:19):
always put a warm and fuzzy inmy heart.
But if, if someone I placed in,I don't hear from them.
And then when the first come andthen I don't see the payment and
then the Like they'll know thefirst and then I will start
texting them just a veryfriendly polite like hey It's

(16:42):
the first I haven't seen therent So what's do you have any
issues with our payment?
Software platform or somethinglike that So yeah, so because
sometimes people, when they, alot of people, they, they sign
the lease, they think becauseyou always have that grace

(17:04):
period of five day late feegrace period.
People were thinking that fiveday, the fifth day is the
deadline, which in thebeginning, a lot of my tenants
are operating like that.
Right now, none of the tenantsare operating like that.
Like on the first, if you don'tpay rent, you're going to hear
something from me.

(17:24):
And.
And I know just as a, if I'm atenant.
I probably don't want mylandlord to contact me.
Like, I want to live my life.
So I'd rather pay on time, justavoid that conversation.
So,

Mike (17:41):
before, so let's say you have someone come in and there's
like, maybe something's off,right?
Not a total red flag, but maybeit makes them a little bit more
risky.
So you're saying that.
Your rent that you set with, Iguess, a one month security
deposit, that's like the rentfor the person who meets all the
requirements.
And then if they maybe are onthe edge, like they're, they're

(18:05):
kind of missing some of them,but you might still consider
them.
You take a larger securitydeposit and is the rent more as
well for the kind of additionalrisk that you're taking or

Ke Nan Wang (18:17):
That depends on the interview.
If it's, if it's like a littlebit high end of a property.
And I, I see like, If like somesomebody will come in and say,
I'm sorry, like, I have a reallybad credit score because of
this, but I can pay you sixmonths of rent up front.

(18:38):
Okay, so I see this person hascash, then I'm not gonna take
the six, that doesn't meananything to me because I want to
sniff now if there's a problem.
So if, if someone going to paysix months, all they do is they
just kick the can down the road,maybe you're going to have a
problem on the seventh month,right?

(19:00):
So I don't, I don't take that.
I just say how, like, I don't, Idon't, I view advanced rent as
a, Low on my priority, likepeople sometimes will say, I'll
pay you three, four months as Idon't take the advanced rent.
The advanced rent, I only takeit on the back back end.

(19:20):
I don't put it on the front end.
And, and I sometimes I don'teven take it.
I just say, How about you justgive me double, double months in
security and don't pay mebecause, because if they give me
double rent in security, thatactually covers both the rent
liability and the propertydamage liability.

(19:43):
If they if they give me advancedrent, that only covers the rent
liability.
I still don't have any coverage.
Like I do have a couple oftenants.
They kind of move out, didn'tdestroy the property, but for me
to put a property back ontomarket, I have to spend 10, 20
grand, essentially the last twoyears of rent is into the

(20:07):
renovation.
I mean, that, that one monthrent is not nearly enough to
cover the cost for that.
So, so pretty much the mainconcern is the rent, risk on
rent collection and risk onproperty damage.
So if I can, So, so I always optto be, to, to be more in the

(20:30):
security deposit.
I, my, my default is doublesecurity deposit.
But if I kind of like, if doingthe, the showing interview, I
feel like this person is kind oflike barely meeting that
financial requirement, but Ifeel like they, they have a like
good heart, try to do the rightthing.
I, I, I want to place them but Ido want to cover my risk.

(20:55):
Then at that time, that maybedouble rent insecurity could be
too much of a hurdle for them toovercome.
But I will settle for 50 percentmore on security that usually
for a problem 50 percent more onsecurity is like my bottom line.
If you are a problem person andyou can't put 50 percent more on

(21:18):
security, then it's not going towork for us.

Mike (21:23):
Do you ever change the amount of the rent based on like
how risky you view a tenant?

Ke Nan Wang (21:31):
Not recently.
I think I may have done it once.
Because the most of the time isYeah, yeah, most of the time
it's either they are struggling.
So, so I, I basically, I just, Ijust have them pay a little bit
more on security.
Yeah.

Mike (21:53):
So I know we haven't touched on this yet, but you
know, obviously you came back,you started managing the
family's portfolio, but now you,you build a lot of new
construction homes.
St.
John's

Ke Nan Wang (22:05):
Yes.
So, so.
I mean, when I got back, therewas a lot of soul searching.
I will say the first year, I,like, I, I, I want to do
something basic, but I don't, Ijust don't know where my heart
is.

(22:25):
Because like, you, you thinkabout like when I was in the
military, I got off as alieutenant commander.
Basically we're operating 2billion nuclear submarines that
was on the sea duty.
And, and then, and then I workin the Pentagon in the two star
general's office.

(22:46):
We are ma we're making like,like a multimillion dollar
acquisition decisions.
So it's a lot of high level andnow I'm coming back and I'm
dealing with still tenants.

Mike (23:00):
down the rent.

Ke Nan Wang (23:07):
had a lot of.
Really crappy, uh, crappy rentalproperties because those are the
properties that cashflow reallywell.
Like mobile homes, trailers, wehad a lot of those.
So there was literally, like Ihad a few incidents where we
have to like knock on doors andkick squatters out.

(23:29):
I had one incident that this isa little bit more recent.
Where basically I, it was duringCOVID we evicted a tenant and
I'm, there's probably some shadythings going on and the the
husband like rushed back.
You hear the tire squeezysqueaking.
It's the truck like flew backbecause the wife was at home and

(23:51):
the sheriff was like about tokick her out and she called her
husband back.
And the husband just flew backto the house and was calling me
my names and the sheriff waslike called backup.
So there were like six cop carsshow up within five minutes and
they put that guy in handcuffs.

(24:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was dealing with this kind ofthing.
So, but but yeah, it's not thefirst year I was really trying
to figure out like, what do Ireally want to do?
Um, wait, wait, with thebusiness.
So first number, number one forI was kind of working, I mean,
we, we were operating ourportfolio, but also investing in

(24:35):
real estate.
So we, we look at deals at thattime.
That means deals like for retailinvestors.
Now I, I work with wholesalers,like you guys to get better
deals.
But yeah, but we we're workingwith, so like.
Realtor real estate agents atthe time.
Basically it's just to eitheracquiring new deals or offloads

(24:58):
on old properties in ourinventory.
And yeah, I was looking at howmuch the real estate agent is
doing, then how much commissionshe's collecting.
Back then I, I thought like,Hmm, maybe I can do this.
So, so I first, I got my realestate agent license, which is

(25:20):
something pretty easy to do So,so that, that kind of started at
the real estate sales agent sideof things.
Then I was both like operating afamily portfolio, but also tried
to become a real estate salesagent.
Retrospect, I didn't like that.

(25:40):
I didn't like to be a salesagent.
Then then we, we came across a,a really nice deal where there
was a property was I, I show youthis.
There was a property, there'sone house sitting on the middle,
but it's four buildable lots.
For some reason, nobody saw thatone.
Back then it was 150, 000, theLewis listed 150, 000 for four

(26:05):
lots.
And it was on the market for ayear.
So, and we saw that, we justmade, made an offer 120 and
there's, and the seller So tous, so 124 buildable lots, then
so that, that, that kind ofstarted our, my development

(26:25):
interest.
Oh, sorry, before that I did aone flip.
I did a one flip because I wantto know the business.
So, so for this flip, Ispecifically tell myself, like,
I'm going to do everythingpossible like hands on, hands on
wise.
So I, I pretty much only sawabout the things that that.

(26:49):
I have to sub out, like all thespecialty trades then, but
everything that if I can do it,I don't need the license, then I
was going to do it.
So, so I did that one flip.
At the end of that project, thatone, like two things I learned
from that project is one, Idon't want to flip old houses

(27:11):
anymore.
Because I like, because at theend of the day.
You, like number one, you're,you're walking with a floor plan
the, the footprint of the houseand, and it's, and that was
designed like in the sixtiesthere are lots of inefficiency
in the floor plan, but you're,you're, but you're, you're kind

(27:34):
of constrained by that.
So you can't, there's nothingyou can do about it.
So you're walking with aconstrained floor plan and then
And then the another thing isthe drainage is old, so we
realized that the old drainageafter we already putting
everything brand new, and nowthe sewer is backing up.

(27:54):
So that's the biggest problemlessons I learned is if I have
to do another flip of old house,definitely inspect the health of
the sewage system.
Yeah, spend the money to do theinspection, because that's
normally not part of a homeinspection.
Yeah, the inspector doesn'tinspect the sewer.

(28:17):
So yeah, just yeah, make surethat, yeah, if we have to put in
new sewer, definitely put inthat that's worthwhile.
investment.
Much better than after you'reputting everything shiny, brand
new, now the sewer is backingup.
That's a nightmare.
Then a second main lessons Ilearned.

(28:38):
Is that, um, I don't want to dothe hands on operation because,
um, because I do have a lot ofpeople that's around me, they do
the hands on basically that,like, they, they think it's
saving, saving the laborers ifthey can just put in the, put in

(28:59):
the trims themselves somethinglike even easier, like paint, a
lot, a lot of I think back thenmy parents used to paint houses,
paint our own rental property.
When I got back, I, I paintedour own rental properties
because I thought it was savingmoney.
But then I realized during thatwhole process is that basically

(29:21):
there are people live their lifespecialized in this trades and
they could do a much, much, muchmore efficient and they enjoy
doing it.
And they can do this until they,until their retirement.
And if I have to learn.
That then I'm like way behind onthe, on the curve and it's not

(29:42):
something I even enjoy doing.
So, so pretty much yeah, thatlike the, the, the hands on
flip, I, I learned what to howto appreciate.
So that's the big lesson.
So that, that was the flip.
And then with the, then we startlooking to new construction and
that when you compare the prosand cons between flip overhouses

(30:06):
and doing new constructions ifthe conditions right for the,
the, the investor, Newconstruction is a no brainer.
But there is some prereq, likecriteria.
So you have to meet one iscapital.
It's a much harder to have thecapital to pull off a new

(30:27):
construction project versus aflip.
Yeah,

Mike (30:35):
you started like, you know, I think, was that your
first project that I met you atthat time where you did those?
Was that four?
Was that the one you weretalking about?

Ke Nan Wang (30:44):
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's the first time weactually met.

Mike (30:48):
Yeah.
And then.
But from there, like, you'vereally, you've grown the
building business a lot.
I know.
Are you still doing, are youstill building a lot of them to
rent or are you selling some ofthem or what's like the model.
This year

Ke Nan Wang (31:03):
Yeah, in the beginning, we were doing a lot
of the, um, the cash flowingproperties in Class C area.
I, I mean, there are a lot ofbuilders, the Tractone builders
that build houses like us.
The difference is they buildhouses to sell, and we build
houses to hold.

(31:24):
So, yeah, we build them and rentthem.
Yeah.
That that's a big difference.
So in the, in the first coupleof years basically we kind of
like replace our, the crappyproperties in our portfolio with
the new brand new ones.
So, so I think, I think that'sone of the things that we did to

(31:48):
our portfolio.
So our portfolio is even thougha number of property.
really didn't change that much,like compared to when I got back
to till now, but ourprofitability on each property
is It's like two or three timesmore than what, what we used to

(32:09):
do.
And our headache is dramaticallyless because almost no
maintenance.
And the, the right part of newconstruction attracts the very
good tenants from the get go.
And, and, and it shows reallywell.
One, one thing is kind of like,you don't kind of know this and

(32:31):
most of people don't factor thisin is the.
It's the time between you listenon the market and rent it out.
So new construction.
So we will always takeprofessional photos, no matter
what.
Even, so the new construction,the difference between
professional photos and realityis almost none.

(32:53):
The property shows exactly likehow it looks on the photo.
So if most of the people come,they are attracted by the
photos.
And like our conversion rate isextremely high for new
construction.
With older properties, a lot ofpeople attracted by the

(33:13):
professional photos, which thatmeans the professional hotels
have done their jobs attractingprospects, but a lot of people
kind of see the reality.
There's a difference betweenreality and the photos.
So, so we, we do work.
A bit harder on the older houseon tenant placement than new

(33:33):
construction.
So, so yeah, we, we definitelylove the new constructions in
our portfolio.
Um, so yeah, I

Mike (33:45):
what would you say is like the time difference or recently,
like how long does it take tolease a new construction versus
some of your, you know, olderhomes that are still in the
portfolio?
Really?

Ke Nan Wang (33:56):
think these the time in St.
Augustine is, it's always verygood.
As far as rental goes, I, Iread, I never had a properties
that's more than three weeks onthe market.
since since I come back in 2019.
Yeah.
So, and doing COVID, I'm talkingabout like, I listed a property

(34:19):
I, I haven't rented out.
Over the weekend, but now we aregoing back to like the two,
three weeks mark.
But I never had any property siton the market for more than a
month.
And if, if like in two weeks, ifI don't see the actions, I like
the activities I like, I'll,I'll load the rent.

(34:41):
Until I see the activities thatlike but as far as yeah, you're
asking the time difference.
I think most of the newconstructions, I, I pretty much
like, I, I signed, I, I come, Iconvert on the, like on the
first show.
The only people that I wouldn'tconfer, confer is if, if they

(35:04):
don't qualify.
So, so that would be the people,like, I never had people come
and then turn it down.
So, so that, that is, that isthe big difference where in the
older homes, where I had peoplecome and then it's not because
they don't qualify, but they,they think they have other

(35:24):
options elsewhere.
So, but that's a big difference.
So usually for older homes, Idefinitely do like.
Maybe three, four, five timesshowings where on the new
construction is pretty much thefirst one, the first one who
qualifies that I lease it rightaway.

Mike (35:43):
Yeah.
And when you're building these,because I know, I mean, I know
you build some for other people,but when you're building them to
rent, are you putting certain,like, I don't know.
What comes to mind for me islike, are you building them in a
certain way to be more durableor more te tenant proof, as
people call it?

Ke Nan Wang (36:02):
Yes, for sure.
First it starts with the design.
So we, we basically, we havearchitect that I, we gave them
requirements to design it.
In the most efficient way andwe, we tweak it, we tweak our
designs for every bill we do.
Not now we take less in thebeginning, we took a lot more.

(36:26):
So basically they, they aredesigned to, to be three
bedroom, two baths, 1250 squarefoot condition space.
And we designed it to maximize.
Like every square inch of thecondition space.
So a lot of one of the, a lot ofthe favorable comments that we

(36:47):
got from everyone look throughour house is they definitely
feel like our house is a lotbigger than 1250 because a lot
of people, they live houses thatthere's like 1300, 1400 square
foot.
But when they come to our house.
Even though it says 1250, butit's feel like it's bigger than

(37:10):
the 1400, 1300 square foothouses, just because we, we're
maximizing efficient use ofevery square inch in the house.
So that comes with the initialdesign and, and our houses are
designed for this purpose.
So, and then on the materialselections yes, definitely all

(37:35):
the, the tenant friendlyselections that that's why we
don't, we always advertise.
We want one thing for me todrive revenue is is we allow
pads.
We always put in privacy fenceand.
I always hope tenants come withpets because we, we, we just

(37:56):
upcharge them for newconstruction.
I upcharge 75 a month for forpets.
People are more than willing topay that for their pets.

Mike (38:07):
Yeah

Ke Nan Wang (38:09):
so yeah, and, and, and all, like all the materials
that we use.
So we don't, we don't mind.
There's, there's nothing theycan destroy about.
that property that we can fix.
I mean, most of the damage willbe cosmetic.
There's nothing they really cando to, to hurt the structural,
plumbing, electrical, mechanicalside of things.

(38:32):
So all of them is like drywall,trims, doors.
So, but those things are easyfix for us.
So yeah, pretty much, yeah, Ianswer your question.
Yeah, we start with the designthat's most rental efficient and
then selection that is prettymuch tenant proof.

Mike (38:56):
And we were talking a little bit offline.
We were talking about like, howdo you, you know, obviously
you're, you know, building abunch of homes and you're not
building them yourself.
So you have to attract and, youknow, make sure you screen subs
to make sure you're working withgood quality subs.
It seems like you've got a goodjob about doing that.
Like how, what, what's yourprocess to do that?

(39:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Ke Nan Wang (39:18):
Yes.
So definitely work through a lotof subs.
Also a lesson, a lot of lessons.
So with that too, so, so my, myprocess of.
I've refined, like, right,basically, right now, I'm in the
position, it, I think it worksboth ways.
So, I mean, you, you got to bea, a good contractor to attract

(39:45):
quality stuff.
They want to work for you.
So in the beginning, it'sbasically a word of mouth in the
beginning, because I didn't knowanybody.
So basically just ask aroundyou, you, you started with Just
like people who have done thingsusually start with one sub.
Then if you like the subs work,then you can ask that sub if

(40:06):
they know anybody who does otherthings.
So, so, so pretty much that'show I started with my team of
subs.
And then that overall, and thenthe couple of things like you.
I always hear a lot of podcasts,the contractors, they always use
the word you got to treatyourselves well.

(40:29):
What does treat yourselves wellmean?
How do you convert that to anactionable item?
I never heard anybody actuallytalk about what is treating
themselves well, like whataction items.
That you, that you take and, andthe thing is, it's not always a
black and white.
Every, everybody is different.

(40:51):
So, so you, so there are like,for instance, there I had, I had
a sub that worked for me fortwo, two years.
Very good, very good.
No problem.
Very good pricing.
And then, all of a sudden thenew bids, they come in, I see

(41:11):
there's a price, a price hike.
Then I I talk to them, like, oh,so what, what, why, why is why
are things getting moreexpensive?
Then I usually this, I mean, I,I'm kind of like the same
because I'm a generalcontractor, so I deal with
homeowners.
So if, if, if my price increase,the homeowner ask me, sometimes

(41:35):
I give them the real answer.
Sometimes I, I make up an answerand say why this is the the
reason.
So, so I can tell that when thesubs like do that to me too,
they can they can just say,well, you know, the material is
material has the price has goneup.
So I, I saw, so every time youshould, like, if there's a price

(41:59):
hike, Then I, I started to talkto other subs that's kind of
like for, for my like solid,like good quality subs.
I, I kind of usually, I don'talways check on, on the, on that
price.
But sometimes if I feel it's anecessary, there are some
trigger points or one triggerpoint.

(42:21):
is if they increase my price,then if you're going to increase
my price, I'm going to shoparound.
Then, then there are subs whoare okay with you shop around,
but then there are other subswho are not okay with you shop
around.
So everyone is different.
And sometime in the beginning,like then I have like subs are

(42:42):
calling me in a very hostiletone and say, I know you started
using other people, you say,they said, Oh, what, do you know
what happens to other builderswho start shopping around?
They're going to see a priceincrease.
Then I mean, in my mind, I say,okay, so, so I'm not using you

(43:05):
because your price is too high.
And now.
Now you're going to increase myprice more instead of like
pulling me back with giving youa better deal.
But now you're going to increasemy price that sure is going to
push me away.
And in the, in the beginning, I,I was ha I always have kind of
concern like when I'm puttingall my eggs in one basket that

(43:29):
I, I, I was very relying on alot of key subs.
So that, that was kind of likemy concern, like, okay, so what
happened if this stops to stopworking for me?
Would I be able to replace themwith another high quality subs?
But after going through a fewdrills like that, I basically.

(43:50):
That you even had good peopleQuit on me because life's
happens, people change.
I've, I've, I've been throughenough and now I'm, I'm much
more confident with looking forbasically getting the, the leads
on the subs and then screen themthroughout my, with my process

(44:11):
and make sure they they, theymeet the quality meet the
standard of our operations.
And, and then the.
Basically nowadays, so there'sbecause I do treat myself so
well.
So, okay.
So here are the action items forwhat treats yourself well is to
pay them fast.
So that is one action item is topay them fast.

(44:34):
So I'm, I have a greatreputation.
In St.
Augustine to pay people fast.
So, so now there are a lot ofpeople actually want to come
work for me.
So I got a lot more phone callsfor people.
They, they said, Hey, do youneed this?
Like we do, we specialize inthis.
Do you want to do this?

(44:55):
So, so just, just being a goodgeneral contractor.
And now you are attracting moresubs to want to work for you.
But I didn't have this luxurywhen I started.
So, but, but still like, I thinkit's, it's, it's the same
complaints or like, like youguys can't get enough needs.

(45:15):
So there's a, the homeownersalways want too, too much, too
much for the on the wholesaledeals.
Basically on the subset, like ifpeople complains about not
finding good quality subs, it'sjust mostly because they haven't
interviewed enough subs, forthat job.
So that, yeah, so, yeah, goahead.

Mike (45:37):
I was gonna say, what are so paying them fast?
What are some of the otheraction items of trading?
Sounds well.

Ke Nan Wang (45:45):
So you have to understand how subs makes money.
Um, in the beginning, I didn't,I didn't have a clue and nobody
was, uh, telling me this.
So I had, I had a very good sonthat even he, I don't know why
he, he didn't tell me this.

(46:08):
Maybe he just assumed I knowthis, but from military to
civilian, I didn't know theconstruction industry, like how
people making money.
So right now I'm extremelyconscious about, about making
sure that, The, the initial, sobasically in an, in the

(46:31):
military, we always, when wecarry out a procedure, always
say initial conditions are metprecautions, the red and
understood, and then followprocedure.
So the initial condition is avery important step.
So when you, when you have tostop, start on a project.
you need to make sure all theinitial conditions are met for

(46:53):
them to start.
That doesn't mean like theinitial condition are met 90%.
That, that's one of how Ioperated in the, when I started,
like sometimes I have 90 percentof the material on the job site.
I say, how, how about cominghere, do 90 percent of the work
and then finish off the 10percent when I have 10%.

(47:16):
Yeah, so I didn't know.
I say, like Hey, I got 90percent of material here.
Why are you not showing up?
So that, that's kind of thethings I didn't know.
Nobody told me that.
So I thought, well, if I have 90percent and you say you're going
to start today, then, then youcan come here, do 90 percent of

(47:37):
the work.
And I usually in my mind, Ithink, okay, if this is like a
two day job, then then if I have90 percent of the material here,
then you can at least come hereto knock out one day.
So work, right?
Then just come back on thesecond day.
That's how I thought how I wasthinking before.

(47:57):
And then I definitely have.
Pushed away some of the, thestuff that I like to work with
in the long run just because mymistakes and nobody showed me
the road.
But after just I actually done afew other workshop, not
construction related, but wehave we have done a workshop.

(48:18):
It was like, Public speakingworkshop was done and we had a
like general contractor thereand just accidentally they
talked about this and I'dlearned from them is that the
subs make some most of the moneywhen they, when they can come
in, knock it out and leave andget paid.

(48:39):
So, so if you operate like thatand people can give you a good.
a very good deal because becausethey understand that when you
call them in, everything's goingto be ready and they can come
in, knock it out and leave.
So, so then, then they get paid.
So, so that's so that's how Ioperate now.

(49:01):
I'm extremely conscious aboutwhen I schedule subs, I need to
make sure Like, I mean, I can't,I can't, because one of the
things that we operate ouroperation good on the good side
is we, we build houses veryfast.
Building houses fast is just abasic operating with no gaps.

(49:22):
We don't rush people, but wejust operate with no gaps.
So to operate with no gaps, ifthe subs are scheduling out one
or two weeks out, then you haveto schedule them.
But you have to be extremelyconscious about making sure it's
ready.
If, if the moment you know it'snot going to be ready, you'd

(49:43):
rather call them.
And rescheduled them because ifit's not ready, it's my fault.
I know some people, they are,they don't want to lose that
spot because they think if theycall them and say it's not
ready, then the sub's gonna pushthem out.
one to two weeks down the road,and they don't like that.

(50:03):
So they rather keep that spotuntil the last minute.
And then if it's not ready, ormaybe 90 percent ready, and the
subs show up, you're not ready,then they, they're not going to
be happy.
And sometimes some subs thatthey, they got their foot in the
door because they gave you agood deal.
So if they gave you a good deal,and you can't run an efficient

(50:24):
operation, and then they don'tmake it, money than in the
future.
They just either give you ahigher price or they're just not
gonna work for you anymore.
They don't answer your callanymore.
So, so pretty much like for me,if, if I schedule a subs and
it's not ready, I'm totally okaywith they, they schedule me out

(50:45):
to whenever the next spot is sothat that's on my side.
And the thing I, I asked for mysubs is if they show up, they
don't leave my job until it'sdone because I know some subs
that they, they have like a oneday opening.
And they want to, they want tokeep their guys busy, but they

(51:07):
actually have another big jobschedule on the following day.
So they come here and do oneday's work, and they go on to
the next job, and do that job,then come back.
So I don't, so, like, I don'twork with sub that operates like
that.
So I, I, I basically, I tellthem upfront, I say to work on

(51:29):
my job, like, I'll, I'll makesure, like what I can promise
you is you come to my job,everything's gonna be there,
ready for you.
What I'm asking you is that youdon't leave the job until it's
done.
So, so that's, that's the, the,if, if they can commit to that,
I mean, some people may, Idon't, I never run into issue

(51:50):
like this because most of thetime people just, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
We'll do that.
So, so, I like, if they're goingto do that then that's a mental
check for me.
I mean, I'm still gonna paythem.
And when they, when the work isdone, but then they just not
gonna be.
One of my top tier subs on thefuture jobs.

(52:11):
So, so maybe I only gave themthe job that's kind of like.
Too busy for my, my team, a 18or B team.
And now you get the leftoverjobs.

Mike (52:26):
What are you doing to, what are you doing?
Well, you said there's two partsof it, right?
So you have to find the subs andthen you have to screen them.
So, outside of just asking yourexisting subs for referrals, how
else are you finding subs?

Ke Nan Wang (52:43):
Pretty much.
There's just a list.
I think the referral is the bestthat, that is because I do get a
lot of high quality subs frombefore.
So nowadays my referralsactually.
Sell me because like one, my,one of my subs are calling their

(53:03):
other buddy and they, they putin like a great word for me.
Sometimes I, I just like, theyjust call, like call their buddy
in front of me or they, or theirbuddy will tell me, Hey, so and
so say like, like, you know whatyou're doing, you pay really
quick, like, like pay quickly.
That is, that is the key.

(53:26):
Like the easy on.
Like a lot of people probably inour position as investors that
don't understand how payingquickly, it's a huge to those
subs.
That's why I'm also veryconscious about like actually
pay them very quickly, like,because I understand how people

(53:48):
like view, if you, if you saylike, I'm sorry, this thing's
come, I essentially say if they,if they are expecting a paycheck
on Friday.
And then maybe something that'snot convenient to you that come
up that you can't pay themconveniently.
Maybe to you, you think howabout I just pay you on Monday?

(54:10):
I'm very conscious about thatkind of excuse.
Because I, I would think,especially for people who don't
know me that well yet.
Then I will probably.
It's probably.
not a good look.
So, so if, if something isinconvenient coming up that for
me to pay them, like I will goout of my way to pay them.

(54:33):
So that I won't use myinconvenience to delay other
people's paycheck.
So that's how I operate.
And that's, apparently that'slike a big deal in this
industry, which sometimes I feellike the standard is kind of low
which so if I'm, by doing theright thing, then, then, then,

(54:57):
yeah.
So,

Mike (54:59):
Yeah, we've, I've had that policy for like five years.
I say you finish, you finishwhat's on the job, you get paid
today.
You know, I got to go and checkit, right?
You got to give me notice thatit's going to be done today and
my project manager will go checkit, but you'll get paid today.
And it's amazing what you'resaying is how far that goes and

(55:21):
how people will prioritize yourjob first because they know if
they do it, they're going to getpaid as soon as it's done.
I found at least.

Ke Nan Wang (55:28):
yeah, yeah, because I do have a subs that they work
for is with the more like largescale companies and a lot of
them have net 30,

Mike (55:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Ke Nan Wang (55:41):
probably your audience probably don't know net
30 Basically just you're sendingthe invoice.
They have 30 days.
The, the the contractor has 30days to pay.
Usually the subs know that whenthey sign up for the job.
So sometimes they're like ifthey work for like Toll Brothers
or DL Horton's big contractor,they have the net 30 policy.

(56:03):
And when you bid on the job, youknow, that's what you get into.
So you, you.
organize your operation tooperate like that.
So, but to us, if it's if thejobs are done, will you get paid
right away?
It's a big deal to them.
They don't have to wait 30 days.

Mike (56:22):
who wants to wait 30 days to get paid?
So if

Ke Nan Wang (56:26):
there's, there's some like, last, Less
sophisticated companies, theyalso operate at 930.
It's something like a ridiculousstories I hear from myself, so
where they, they like some kindof like problem that company has
and miss the pay.
And now they have to waitanother 30 days, which is.

(56:48):
ridiculous to me.
So, so myself, I had to waitlike 60 days to collect a
paycheck.

Mike (56:55):
That's crazy.

Ke Nan Wang (56:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (56:58):
I mean, obviously now you have the referrals because
you've established yourself, butlike if you weren't at that
point yet, like probably some ofthe people listening to the
show, how would you go aboutfinding those subs if you didn't
have the option of all thereferrals that you have now?
Yeah.

Ke Nan Wang (57:16):
Yes.
Um, it's a pretty, the, thebasic way, um, you basically
Google, um, Then drive aroundtown, like basically see any
jobs that, um, like a lot ofpeople put out a sign, the
Google thing.

(57:37):
I'm a little bit, um, have aprecautions against because of
Google, you only, you are onlyfinding the companies that are
tech savvy, but there are lotsof good quality subs that
they're not good.
At the tech knowledge, maybethey never have a Google
business.

(57:58):
So if you only stick withGoogle, then you kind of like
missed out on those highquality, low tech subs.
So, so, so those type of people,yeah, basically.
I mean, you do have to beconscious about this visiting
job sites because I know thatgeneral contracts don't like

(58:18):
people to visit their job sites,as long as you're not going to
have caused any problem, thenvisit job sites and other
people's job sites and see Imean, you can even just if they
have trucks that have numbers orlike along the, when you drive
around, see trucks around and.

(58:39):
Like quickly snap a picture ofthe trucks.
And so I would say, yeah, prettymuch you just Googled and, and
then just looking around outsideof referrals.
But I, I can say even referralsof people can.
It's, it's not just referralfrom subs, but also referral

(59:00):
from family and friends.
One thing about referral thatyou do have to be conscious
about is the scope of work.
it's, it's like, not, noteveryone is good at, good at.
A lot of things maybe like theycome, they come from referral
because they are, they did areally good job on this specific

(59:23):
area.
But some people come, they wantto take on a lot, they take,
want to take on more than theycan chew.
So then Yeah, then the thingsthat you, you want to screen
them for the specific scope ofwork that you want them to
accomplish obviously, if someonerefer that to like a family of

(59:43):
friends who refer them to you,that that's a testament to their
character, at least, so at leastthey're like an honest person
But but make sure that becausesometimes the referrals and not
also domain good, if, if thescope of work is beyond their
capability,

Mike (01:00:03):
Yeah, so once you've kind of got, you know, introductions
to all these subs or you'veattracted them, right?
Like how, what is your processto screen them?

Ke Nan Wang (01:00:15):
pretty much the, in the beginning is all because I'm
I'm, I'm general contractor softout to, uh, all the work, so I
need to make sure they haveinsurance and workers comp
that's like, a minimum.
So pretty much like I need to,the first thing is like, I just
I just text them or send them.

(01:00:37):
I say, this is my email.
Send all your business documentsto my email.
And then, so usually you'll findthat there is a, a group of
companies that, that they havetheir stuff together.
And when you ask for that, youreceive it right away.
So that's, that sets a goodimpression.

(01:00:57):
Then you have people that, thatdrags, drags, drags, and you
have to keep asking them.
So usually you just know that.
they probably don't have thedocuments that you want them to
have and they kind of just tryto get them now.
So, yeah, so, so the first stepis to make sure they have the,

(01:01:21):
their insurance and workerscome.
And then the, the, The secondstep is basically to have them
send me recent projects for thescope of work that I want to do.
So that on that part, and I canalmost immediately tell that
guy's an expert or not.

(01:01:42):
Obviously like if someone askedme to show my recent project,
like I can, like within seconds,just send them like what I've
done.
If I'm experiencing this field,if I'm not experienced, then I
probably make up some excuses ofwhy I cannot show them the, some

(01:02:02):
of the recent projects.
So for them, it's the samething.
Basically, if I want this scopeof work, then I just say, just
give me like, like some.
Two or three jobs of, of onethat that's come, that's already
completed.
And I was, I usually, I assumethat usually the good guys that

(01:02:24):
they're always busy, so theyshould be working right now.
So I just like, or any jobs thatyou're working right now, I can
come check it out.
So, so those are one of the,yeah.

Mike (01:02:36):
So you ask them for the scope of work for the current
job and then, and then you go,go there and check it out with
them.

Ke Nan Wang (01:02:44):
No, I, I, I basically tell, usually the
conversation is I tell themwhat, what the scope.
I need, I just say, show me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Show me, show me something thatyou have done similar to the
scope I need.
Then usually some, some goodpeople, they will just like
bombard you with some likeproject they have done.

(01:03:08):
And some people just not somuch, like depend on the task,
depend on the task.
If it's a highly specialized,And I'm paying a lot of money
that I definitely want toexperience if something that's
like less specialized.
I know somebody can learn itvery quickly.

(01:03:29):
And if that person is someonenew I can basically, I can take
a chance on something that'sless technical.
So, but for the highlyspecialized, I definitely a very
strict on.
On looking basically reference.
So I need to see theirreference.
And then the last step isusually for new people, yeah new

(01:03:51):
people, I'll walk, walk withthem on the job.
Basically I tell them exactlywhat needs to happen because
there's a lot of things,something very simple tile work.
So tile work, like say, if yougo tile a shower there are
different levels of initialconditions.

(01:04:14):
So when the subs that they.
You need to tell them exactlywhat the initial condition is,
like, the direct hon it's thewaterproofing done the like the
mop pan that's already built, ordo they need to do that?
Or do they need to building aniche or the, or the niches

(01:04:34):
already built for them or theyjust come lay the tiles.
So, so pretty much I always.
Walk with them on the job, onthe, then I tell, I just tell
them, I say, look, this is theinitial condition.
Then I show them a picture.
This is the end result.
Give me a quote that will takethis to this.

(01:04:57):
And then, then, then I, yeah,yeah.
Then that I do tell them that Iwill supply all the.
all the design materials.
So anything that the customerssee that I supply.
So for tile job will be thetiles, the marble, the grout,

(01:05:20):
and the trim, like the Schlutertrim.
So those, those things I supply,I say any of the material that
Nobody gets to see that yousupply that means thinset pretty
much the thinset and the mud.
So I have my tile guy build themud pen.
So they have to bring their ownmud to build that.

(01:05:41):
So, so pretty much I just tellthem, yeah, I, like when you
come to the job, they basicallyall the tiles will be there.
Then you come with your ownsense that because, you know,
how much sense that you need.
So I don't, I don't want to likeask how many senses you want.
And so that's, that's prettymuch one how we set up as far as

(01:06:04):
the tile job goes.

Mike (01:06:06):
Yeah, and so that's kind of the process.
So you show I do like that.
How you show them.
This is the initial condition.
And here's what I wanted to looklike.
Give me a bid to get me there.
It's very specific.

Ke Nan Wang (01:06:19):
And, and, and that's very efficient too,
because I, like, sometimes if I,if I have to get multiple on a
one job that's a very quick way.
To, to compare apples to apples,because sometimes the people bet
on things, if they don'tunderstand the, the hundred

(01:06:39):
percent of scope some peoplegave you a higher bid, but but
you have to know that higherbid, maybe, maybe included more
things where the other persongave you a lower bid, where they
didn't say like, maybe they giveyou a high bid.
The tile shower, the niche isincluded, and the other person
gave you a lower bid where theydidn't include building the

(01:07:02):
niche.
So, so you need to make surethat you compare apples to
apples on the, on the quote.

Mike (01:07:10):
Yeah.
And then are you kind of givingthem like a, like a small job at
first?
Is that how, or do you have anyway that

Ke Nan Wang (01:07:18):
Oh, yeah.

Mike (01:07:19):
people out early?
Yeah, yeah,

Ke Nan Wang (01:07:34):
that I have no option of if I do have the
option, I always start them witha small job a small, low risk
job, preferably is my job.
Then I test them out.
And then, yeah, if they do, ifthey do right, then then I,
I'll, if I have the opportunity,I always want to test people on
my job first before I startusing them on customer's job.

Mike (01:08:00):
Any other tips that you have for people if they're
thinking about hiring out someof their own subs?

Ke Nan Wang (01:08:11):
Probably right now.
So yeah, I think I'm workingefficiently.
Basically, get them paid fastand, and one, yeah, one of the
thing is that don't get toocomfortable with your subs.
It is a business relationship.
Sometimes the subs that gets toofriendly, they want to be your

(01:08:34):
friends.
Like, I'm, I'm a nice person.
I can, I can be very friendly,but still, I'm not your friends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so the you're always So the,the, the subs you want use, you

(01:08:54):
want to be surrounded with arethe ones that have a, a healthy
mindset where they, like, theydo work, they offer a, they
asking for reasonable price andthen and then they don't mind
competition.
I had, I definitely had a fewsubs that did.

(01:09:16):
They do mind competition whereI, some of them, I lost them
temporarily.
Some of them, I so far lost thempermanently.
Maybe until later on, they comeback.
Just because they, they don'tlike The thing with me is if
like, I don't, I understandloyalty because there are

(01:09:38):
things, some, a lot of thingsthat you don't, a lot of people
like us don't see, maybe thereare subs that they took care of
something.
They did some extra, extra stuffon the job that, that you didn't
see, or they didn't tell you.
Or maybe they mention it itdidn't register in your brain

(01:10:03):
that that's kind of like theyWent out on the limb that they
didn't have to do that But theydid it for you.
It didn't charge you extra So alot of subs that they did that
for you In return they want tohave some reciprocity With that
if they do you some favors, theywant at least a priority to take

(01:10:23):
on the future jobs Sometimesthere is a mismatch between the
amount of favors they did foryou, think how much you owe them
in terms of favor, and from yourperspective, how much, how much,
what's the price tag you put onthe loyalty.

(01:10:45):
So, so I have I understand themmore.
Now, I appreciate them more nowthan before because I have a lot
of subs that they do a lot ofextra for me.
Sometimes they, they don'tcharge, they don't even charge
me if they, if it's easy forthem to do.
They could have charged me, butthey don't.

(01:11:05):
And then there are, there aresubs where they, they took care
of some small jobs on this joband they, and they, they know,
like, I'm very good at payingthem.
So they just say, okay, don'tpay this, don't pay me now on
this thing so small.
How about just throw it in onthe next job?
bigger paycheck, which I alwaysdo.

(01:11:28):
So, so pretty much if youoperate like this, you, you get
a lot of the small things donewith high quality subs, because
a lot of people, they, a lot ofhigh quality subs, they don't
like to do small jobs.
They don't get paid the time'snot worth it to do smart jobs,
but if for, for me right now,basically they, they know

(01:11:52):
they're going to get paid and ona bigger job.
So, so they don't mind do somesmart jobs for me with that
though.
They, in their mind, they're,they're doing the tally, like
how many favors they're doing toyou.
So, so in the future thatthey're expecting to get the,
the work So if you're notconscious about that, you

(01:12:14):
probably would dismiss this whenyou compare, when you're getting
multiple bids in the futurejobs.
And then maybe this sub who'sloyal to you is a little bit
higher price tag than the other,maybe newer subs that they tried
to get the job.
So, so there is a price tag forthat loyalty.

(01:12:36):
The thing is that how much pricetag is that worth?
And at the end of the day is, somy best interest is, is my
business.
So whatever things I do is I doit for my business.
If that's the interest of mybusiness is to keep this

(01:12:56):
relationship, then I will keepthis relationship.
But if you come in at aextremely high price tag, then
other people then expecting aloyalty from me, then, then
I'll, I'll say maybe in this, inthis task, this scope of work

(01:13:17):
that your business operation is.
It's not set up to where I needit to be because there is an
efficiency sector where somepeople can just operate more
efficiently than this guy.
Yeah, that is another thing.
Yeah, loyalty.

(01:13:38):
And it's not a black and white

Mike (01:13:42):
Yeah, I think that's not, that's a really good point.
We're getting close to the endhere and you know, there's
always two questions that I liketo ask at the end of the show.

Ke Nan Wang (01:13:52):
Yeah.

Mike (01:13:52):
one is, what is the craziest or most uncomfortable
situation that you have everexperienced in a real estate
deal?

Ke Nan Wang (01:13:59):
I think there are a few sectors because I, I'd have
them poverty management, I haveconstruction and I have the real
estate sale.
Which sector do you want to hearthe most?

Mike (01:14:13):
the craziest one.

Ke Nan Wang (01:14:17):
The craziest one is definitely the, the six cop
cars.
That, that, I mean, becausenothing beats it when you
actually like feel for yourlife, um, because I'm a lot at
that time.
So it's like not lifethreatening.
So I mean, yeah, you lose money,but you can make money in the

(01:14:38):
future, but you only have onelife.
So there, there are somedefinitely.
I have encountered some veryshady operations in my property
management experience.
One of that is the, the cop carswhere it was sound like, yeah,
the, the husband was driving hispickup, like screaming back to

(01:15:01):
to the house.
And I was like, right after hegot off, he was calling my names
and there was only one sheriff.
That deputy sheriff but butimmediately he got, he got it
under control.
So I, I think I have definitelydealt with some of the really

(01:15:23):
low of the low in the realestate.
sector.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (01:15:34):
Well, the second question I like to ask for the newer
people listening to the show isif you could go back in time.
And give yourself one piece ofadvice when you were looking for
your first real estate deal,knowing what, you know, now,
would you tell yourself?

Ke Nan Wang (01:15:53):
I think this is, this is more like a retrospect
advice.
But I would tell myself focusless on cashflow, more on
appreciation.
I have a different perspectivenow, which I, sometimes I try to
educate my, Investors, my retailinvestors but a lot of them

(01:16:17):
still can't get their mindsaround it in my right now,
because there are some operationin my rental properties when the
tenants turn before the tenantturnover, I was collecting rent,
so the return on paper looksgreat, but so I was collecting
rent for two, three years, butthen at turnover.

(01:16:39):
And I have to fix to make surethe property is in the right
condition, either to rent them agame or sell it.
I usually spend like 20, 30, 000just to fix the property for
some of the the tenant didn'tmaintain that standard.
So if you, If you are someonewho look at it from that point

(01:17:00):
of view, you say, Oh my God, Ijust lost last two years of
rental, then this is not worthit.
So, so, but then if you look atit from a different angle where
right now the propertyappreciated 50%, and if I sell
it.
Then it's going to make a lotmore money than that tiny little

(01:17:24):
cashflow that you're makingdoing the, the holding period.
So right now, my, my investmentstrategy has shifted before
there was all the cashflowmindset is like, I need to do
the 1% the 1 percent rules thehigher percentage rate.

(01:17:46):
ROI is the better.
But now I viewed it as like thecash flow just allow you to hold
the property to indefinitely.
The only thing about real estateis you don't want to exit at a
point where you didn't, thatit's not to your best interest.

(01:18:06):
So you want to exit at the righttime.
So if you exit at the righttime, you need to have the cash
flow to sustain.
That the whole period so thecash flow to me right now is
really the sustain this thesustainability.
Of course, if I can make someextra cash that I'm happy, but I

(01:18:29):
view the whole cash side assustainability.
My main focus is the.
The appreciation side.
So that's the mindset shift thatI changed now.
And as far as the investmentgoes, I will, that's what we're
doing.
And so we pretty much exitedthe, the lower income sector.

(01:18:53):
So we do, we do the class C forother people now but ourself, we
don't invest in that areaanymore.
And the only, the only thingthat we didn't get to talk about
this is the co living.
The only thing I invest in thisclass C is the, the co living
space.

(01:19:14):
About other than that, we don'tdo the typical 3 2 in the class
C neighborhood anymore.
But definitely focus on higherquality real estate, like in
the, near the beach, in theprime area and operate some kind
of figure out some kind ofbusiness model that will, Allow

(01:19:34):
you to sustain that holdingperiod and let the appreciation
makes the most of the money.

Mike (01:19:41):
Yeah, I think that's a, that's a great piece of advice,
Keenan.
If people wanna reach out to youafter the show, if they have
questions or maybe they want youto build some homes from them in
St.
John's County,

Ke Nan Wang (01:19:53):
Yeah,

Mike (01:19:53):
about reaching out to you?

Ke Nan Wang (01:19:57):
I'm the weird guy.
I give out them my number.
I was never too busy.
So 9 0 4 5 4 0 2 1 2 6.
Text texting is preferred.
But I, I answer my phone calltoo.

Mike (01:20:14):
Cool.
Well, awesome.
Thanks for being on the show.
This is great.

Ke Nan Wang (01:20:20):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.