March 8, 2025 • 53 mins
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Wondering why your relationships—and real estate decisions—follow predictable patterns? This eye-opening conversation between Rowena Patton and attachment expert Chris Evensen reveals how your attachment style (secure, anxious, avoidant, or disorganized) fundamentally shapes your biggest life choices.
The statistics are shocking: secure attachment has plummeted from 75% in the 1950s to just 40% today. This decline creates ripple effects not only in our personal relationships but directly impacts our approach to buying and selling property. Evensen breaks down each attachment style with remarkable clarity, explaining how anxious types (who trust everyone but themselves) and avoidants (who trust only themselves) navigate differently through both emotional and financial commitments.
For real estate decisions specifically, these patterns manifest in profound ways. Anxious types might rush into purchases seeking validation, while avoidants might suddenly abandon transactions when commitment feels too threatening. As Evensen bluntly states, "You cannot rely on a dismissive avoidant for anything"—a critical insight when making major financial decisions together.
Beyond theory, this episode offers practical strategies for recognizing and improving your attachment style. The good news? With awareness and targeted action, you can shift your patterns in as little as 3-6 months - IF you are prepared to put in the work. Whether you're navigating a relationship, considering a real estate purchase, or wondering why previous partnerships dissolved, understanding these fundamental psychological patterns provides powerful tools for better outcomes.
Ready to transform your approach to both relationships and real estate? Listen now and discover which attachment style drives your decisions—and how to create healthier patterns for lasting success in love and property.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Plain English Real Estate Show with
your host, rowena Patton, a showthat focuses on the real estate
market in terms you can easilyunderstand.
Call Rowena now.
The number is 240-9962 or1-800-570-9962.
Now here's the English girl inthe mountains, the agent that I
(00:20):
would trust, rowena Patton.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey, sean Hannity here talking with the only real
estate agent in your market.
I recommend Rowena Patton withAll Star Powerhouse.
Now more than ever, buyers andsellers need an expert to
navigate this ever-changingmarket.
And what do you do to stand out?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Thanks for asking, sean.
Just like you inform listenerson the Hannity Show, my job is
to make sure homeowners have thefacts they need to make the
best decisions.
At the end of the day, theywant to know two things how I
can sell the home faster and formore money.
But what many don't realize isjust how stressful the process
can be.
(00:59):
Over a third of homes fall outof contract, almost always due
to inspection and appraisalissues.
Sean, that's why I created theCertified Pre-Owned or CPO,
homes Program in 2007.
With CPO, we take control upfront, cutting contract fallout
to just 7%.
(01:20):
When a home falls out ofcontract, it can become
stigmatized, often leading toprice drops, but with a CPO,
home buyers and agents go inwith full transparency fewer
negotiations, more showings anda smoother sale.
I've trained agents nationwideon this, written a best-selling
(01:41):
book about it and I love helpingsellers in Asheville,
hendersonville and Waynesvillesell faster, with less stress
and for top dollars.
And, sean, for sellers who wantto skip the showings and hassle
, we offer a CPO full marketvalue cash offer, whether
traditional or cash.
We help homeowners get sold thesmart way and, what's more,
(02:06):
I've trained agents nationwideto help you in this.
So just reach out and we canfind you a top agent that's
trained to sell this way.
I've helped over 3,500 familieslocally with their moves, so
something's working right.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Call Rowena Patton right now at 828-333-4483 or
online at mountainhomehuntcom.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Hey, it's Rowena Patton here on the Real Estate
News Radio Show.
I am so excited.
Today I've got a very specialguest and, gosh, I've known this
guy for a glass of red wine agoand Austin get togethers ago
and at least 10 years.
This is Chris Evanson, who's areal estate firm owner in Naples
(02:54):
, and he's also an expert inattachment styles.
Hello, everyone.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
How are you, Rowena?
It's great to see you again.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
We're going to have so much fun today.
Why the heck are we talkingabout attachment styles?
Give a two-minute overview ofwhat the heck attachment styles
are.
A lot of our listeners haveheard about them, obviously, but
you know, just give us a littletaster in there.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, attachment styles are based on.
Everyone has an attachmentstyle.
There's four differentattachment styles secure,
anxious, avoidant anddisorganized.
Everyone has an attachmentstyle and it will affect the way
you make your decisions on aday-to-day basis.
85% of your subconscious isformed by the time you're five
years old.
The way you attach to yourmother, in particular, is very,
(03:38):
very important.
If there is some form of brokenattachment during that
five-year span that causes achild to either become anxious
or avoidant, um, they willdevelop that attachment style as
of the age of, as of the age of25.
They'll continue on.
That'll be their decisions andrelationships.
The rest of their life.
They will use that style tomake those decisions well,
(03:58):
that's a little scary, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
can you get better, chris?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
yes, you can change your attachment style.
Unfortunately, the great manupstairs has a sick sense of
humor, as I say the only way youcan do so is within
relationship.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Oh Lordy.
Okay then.
Well, why the heck are wetalking about this today on the
Real Estate News Radio Show?
This is about real estate.
How do the two things gotogether, chris?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Your attachment style can dictate some things and,
specifically for your partner,if you're in a relationship with
a specific type of attachmentstyle person and if they are
insecure, they can change thedecisions, they can influence
the decisions in a directionthat you may or may not want it
to go into, and we're going tohave that conversation today,
(04:44):
got it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
And, of course, in real estate we deal with a lot
of breakups, a lot of divorces,a lot of relocations, and
obviously the attachment stylescome into play when those things
are passing us by.
Oh my gosh, this is afascinating one.
If you haven't already, youbetter put some whiskey in your
(05:05):
coffee for this one.
Waking up on a morning, maybeyou're listening to the podcast,
so get comfy and grab a cup ofcoffee and snuggle up and let's
go.
Are they going to need sometissues or anything?
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Chris, no they won't need any tissues, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Do they need to get someone to give them a hug or
make them feel better after this?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
How should we prepare to listen to you for this?
Well, if they're an anxious,they're probably going to want a
hug.
If they're an avoidant, theyprobably don't want a hug.
So we're going to get into thedifferent types of styles that
we have that are out there thefour different styles and how
they operate using theirattachment style.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
One day we'll get secure enough that we can
actually do it on the show and Icould say to you what do you
think?
I am Chris, but I don't know ifI'm there today.
So maybe I'm an anxious ormaybe I'm a secure and it would
be OK, we'll see.
So it's going to be so fun.
We're diving into this topicand it affects so many of us our
relationships, marriage,divorce, business partnerships,
(06:01):
what we do in our real estate,understanding how we attach to
others I mean it plays a hugerole in our success and
happiness and can definitelyimpact your real estate
decisions.
So, oh my gosh, all right,chris, can we go into what are
these main four styles?
(06:23):
Let's just look at the stylesfirst and then we'll dig into
each one after we understandwhat the different styles are or
get a good idea about what thedifferent styles are.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
There's four different styles.
The first we'll cover is secure.
It represents about 40% of ourpopulation.
That has shrank from 50% overthe last about 15 years.
Yikes, back in the 1950s theywere estimating they were about
75 percent secure.
So we've seen a drasticincrease over the last 75 years,
specifically in the last 15years, of more and more insecure
(06:54):
styles, as I share with people.
To simplify it, it's like asnowball rolling down the hill
and it just keeps getting bigger.
This is a epidemic happening inour country and it's affecting
people's lives, health,emotional well-being and it's
also affecting their decisionswhen they're purchasing real
estate.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I really don't like it at all, but I love that
statistic and, interestingly, Idon't know whether we'll use the
video or not and put it onYouTube for this, but you might
want to watch it because you'llsee the silliest faces coming
out of me, because you gave thatstatistic of 75% in the 1950s
and my mouth dropped open.
(07:34):
That is not a pretty sight, butyou're dying to see the shock
and horror on my face when yougave that statistic.
So we've gone from 75% to 40%.
No wonder you're saying it's anepidemic, especially and people
will understand that as we gothrough the different styles, I
am dying to get into that one.
And then we go to the anxious,preoccupied.
(07:54):
Tell us a little bit about thatone.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Anxious, preoccupied.
They're the pullers in therelationship.
They're the ones that feel veryneedy.
The key component to an anxiouspreoccupied is they trust
everyone but themselves.
They're always seekingvalidation.
They're looking for validationfrom their partner that they are
okay.
They're not capable ofself-regulation.
They need others to regulatethem, their emotions, for them.
(08:19):
They can be very nervous,anxious that's why they're
called anxious.
They're also the ones that will, when there's a dispute within
a relationship, will become veryneedy and try to pull you
closer to them and, dependingupon who their partner is, that
may affect their partner ingreat ways and we're going to
cover some of that based on eachattachment style.
(08:40):
Anxious can be very nervous.
They seem very nervous.
They can get very angry whenthings are not going well within
the relationship.
They're the ones that are thestalkers, so they'll follow you
home after a breakup.
They'll follow you to work.
They'll stalk you on socialmedia, things of that nature
right out of the gate.
When there is a dispute withina relationship, they want to
(09:00):
deal with it now and right, thisvery second.
And that is the cleanestdefinition, simplest definition
for people to understand.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Have you ever had a stalker, Chris?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yes, actually I have.
I've been married to an anxiouspreoccupied.
I've dated a fearful avoidant.
I've dated a dismissiveavoidant, so I've had experience
with all three.
The anxious preoccupied becameinsecure when she was in a
relationship with me.
So did the fearful avoidant,because that's part of how you
transition you have to be inrelationship with someone and
(09:35):
then you have to do the work toget there Because I'm insecure.
I'm insecure with anxioustendencies.
I'm what they call a madesecure.
My bonding with my mother whenI was a child was not the
greatest, but I lived with mygrandparents from age five to 25
.
And she became my adoptedmother and they were very secure
people.
So I wound up coming out as asecure with anxious tendencies.
The only time my anxious sidecomes out is when I'm in a
(09:57):
dispute, in a relationshipdispute.
Otherwise, I'm very secure.
One of my mates willtraditionally, if I don't do
anything silly, will becomesecure along with me, as long as
I'm aware of who they are.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Well, thank you for being so humble and sharing
there, like your vulnerableness,particularly because it helps
us understand what you'retalking about in that.
And obviously I'm guessing atleast and I'm not talking about
your personal relationships,because I wouldn't go there.
However, I'm guessing that ifyou've got the anxious
preoccupied in a relationship,often the dismissive avoidance
(10:30):
are attracted to those peoplebecause you know Very good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
They're like magnets to each other.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, and then when the avoidance is in the
honeymoon phase, it's allwonderful.
Am I guessing that thedismissive avoidance are the
love bombers?
Is that what we call them, theones who are-.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Oh, they're both love bombers, and everybody with an
insecure attachment can be alove bomber.
They do it a little bitdifferently.
An anxious, preoccupied will doit the day you meet them and
they start loving on, lovebombing on you within a week,
and an avoidant will usuallytake somewhere between 30 and 60
days.
They kind of ease their wayinto their relationship.
They want to make sure thatthis is something they're
interested in, because they havethe shortest attention span of
(11:08):
all these styles that there are.
Once they feel that they'recomfortable and they like that
person, then their love bombingstarts.
Their love bombing is the mostintense of the bunch and they
will love all of you.
As I say, they write a lovestory and they live it until
they reach a certain point andthat's when the honeymoon stage
is over.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And then the anxious preoccupied gets all needy,
which pushes them away even more, and it's the end of the
relationship.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
All of your insecure attachment styles have what we
call a trigger or a major fear.
The major fear of an anxious,preoccupied is abandonment.
The major fear of an avoidantis loss of independence and
showing vulnerability.
They don't feel comfortable.
A simple way to define thedifference between the two an
(11:57):
anxious, preoccupied trustseveryone but themselves.
An avoidant trusts themselvesonly and do not trust anyone
else.
Avoid and trust themselves onlyand do not trust anyone else.
Then you have the disorganized.
The disorganized has bothinside of them.
Think of it this way you have40% secures on the planet right
now, about 30% avoidance, 25%anxious and 5% disorganized.
(12:17):
So the disorganized are a veryrare breed.
When you do come across one,they're very confusing.
They're the hardest ones tohave a relationship with because
one day they're pulling youcloser.
They're pulling you closer.
As soon as you start respondingto that, now they're avoiding,
kicks in and they start pushingyou away and pushing you away.
So you go through thisemotional rollercoaster with
this disorganized, where you'regoing back and forth all the
(12:40):
time and you're alwaysstruggling as their partner to
find the balance in that yeah,I'm just never going to date
again let me take a second andsay something.
And people are not bad people.
They have a condition that theypre-program their brain with
from age zero to 25.
Usually between zero and fiveis the most of it.
(13:00):
Your subconscious is 85% formedby the time you're five years
old.
That subconscious is built onexperiences.
You create triggers, or copingmechanisms.
You know, I've talked aboutthis in the past with the disc.
Those coping mechanisms looksomething like this If then?
Then that If this happens,subconsciously, your mind tells
(13:25):
you to do that.
You're not aware that thosethings are taking place.
You're now 30 years old.
You're in the dating world.
Something triggers you.
You automatically run for thedoors using an avoidance.
They're not aware they're doingthat.
They think that is normal.
That is their normalperceptions, reality, they don't
understand.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I know a student in his 50s that continually says
why do I keep blowing up myrelationships and his
relationships last three yearsor less and he's in his 50s.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
That's a sign of an avoidant.
I do some relationshipcounseling.
I've obtained several recentpeople approach me about it.
Of the eight people that cameto me, six of them are avoidants
because they're out there.
Something I've learned throughstudy and also personal
experience in talking to thesepeople sometime between age 40
and age 50, the dismissiveavoidant in particular starts
(14:17):
feeling very, very lonely andthey start looking in the mirror
.
They start reminiscing and theyget very nostalgic about their
past relationships and theystart to realize the mirror.
They start reminiscing and getvery nostalgic about their past
relationships and they start torealize you know what, maybe it
wasn't them.
And the story's always the same.
When I talk to a DA, theyalways blame their partner.
They usually have multiples.
The gentleman I'm referring tois 46 years old.
(14:38):
He runs a $600 millionconglomeration.
God bless him.
But his relationship life hasbeen a complete disaster.
He's had 12 relationships bythe time he's 46 years old.
It lasted a year or more andall of them ended within two
years.
All of them he blamed hispartner for that relationship
ending.
And now he's waking up at 46years old realizing he's very
(15:01):
alone, feeling very lonely, andhe started to look in the mirror
.
As far as maybe it wasn't them,maybe I have something to do
with it and that's how he gotreferred to me common
denominator that's usually whatit is it's self-awareness, right
and self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Obviously self-awareness doesn't cure you,
but self-awareness gets you onthe exit ramp from this highway
of just blotto zone of doingwhat your caveman or cavewoman
brain is telling you.
It's at least getting you offthe exit ramp to say wait,
something's going on here.
And I'm aware that maybe thestring of relationships, or
(15:38):
maybe the fact I'm not in one,or maybe the fact I'm feeling
lonely, maybe it's not all abouteverybody else I've dated for
the last 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It takes some time, you know.
They have to have some historyto look back on to realize when
you're in your 20s and you'redating, you're not thinking
about it, you're just goingthrough the motions.
Now you reach your 40s and 50sand you start looking backwards
and being nostalgic, looking atthe relationships, thinking
about what some of the wonderfulpeople you've dated why didn't
that work out?
(16:08):
And they start coming to therealization because they have so
many of them that wait a minute, maybe it was me and they look
in the mirror and they startseeking answers.
And it's loneliness that causesthat to occur.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And they're getting grandkids right.
So all their friends aregetting grandkids and they don't
have grandkids.
I'm thinking about the people Iknow in those situations.
They're starting to think Idon't want to die alone.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Correct and those are the type of thoughts that start
taking place, specifically theavoidant.
They're the ones that usually,later on in life, end up alone
and they don't find a mate.
All avoidants are fearful andthey don't find a mate.
All avoidance you're fearfuland you're dismissive.
Fearfuls, in particular, areknown for severe loneliness and
ending their lives on being ontheir own, and it's very sad.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And there you're talking about a fearful avoidant
and it's all about if I let youin, I'm going to be consumed
and manipulated and everythingelse that fits very well and
sadly, I mean I hate to think ofthis person being and
everything else that fits verywell and sadly, I mean I hate to
think of this person beingalone for the rest of their
lives.
That's so sad.
Let's shift over to where wewant to get, to Secure
attachment styles.
(17:15):
We put some scripts together,chris and I, around what people
actually say.
What does this look like?
So that you at home listeningor in the car, start giggling to
yourself in the car as you'relistening to these as we go
through them.
A secure attachment, which,sadly, is a much smaller
proportion than it used to be inthe 50s, at 75 percent um, I
(17:37):
would hesitate to wonder if it'seven 40 percent these days, but
a secure attachment style likea healthy balance.
This is somebody who'scomfortable with intimacy and
autonomy, communicates openly,resolves conflicts healthily.
What do these statements looklike?
I love spending time with you,but I also enjoy my own space.
(17:58):
Let's talk through this issueand find a solution together.
I trust you completely and Idon't need constant reassurance,
and the red flags they're goingto avoid are extreme jealousy,
avoidant behaviors or emotionaloutbursts.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Right, and those three descriptors you just gave
are the descriptors of threedifferent insecure styles.
Secures are balanced.
We call them the boring peoplein relationship.
They don't get overly emotional, they're not love bombers, but
they're going to love on you,they're going to care about you,
they're going to show affection, they're going to do those
things, but they're not going tolove bomb you.
They also usually don'tparticipate in arguments too
(18:41):
long.
Will they jump in the arenabecause they love you?
Yes, they will.
When it starts to get reallyheated you know five, ten
minutes to it they're going tocheck out.
This isn't healthy.
They're going to want todisengage from that argument and
take some space.
So the descriptors you gave arethe descriptors of the three
other insecure styles, andsecures usually try to avoid
those things.
(19:05):
The challenge in today's datingworld and relationship world is
they're very hard to avoid.
They're everywhere, especiallyas you get older.
Right now, 60% of ourpopulation has an insecure style
.
The one thing that's very clearabout secures most of them get
into a loving, deep relationshipat a young age and they stay
there.
I mean, we talked about you andI've talked about highly
successful people and some oftheir traits, one of the key
(19:29):
traits to a highly successfulperson is they're usually in at
least prior to 20 years ago,they were in deep, long, lasting
relationships.
They take that issue off thetable.
It's no longer an issue.
They can go focus on buildingtheir wealth, building their
family and doing the things theyfeel they need to do.
So as you get older, there'sless and less secures available
on the market and more and moreinsecures on the market.
So if you're over 40 and in thedating world, you're going to
(19:52):
come across these people.
I want to start out by sayingthey're very good people.
I want to start out sayingthey're very good people.
They're not bad people.
They just have a condition thatcauses them not to have
successful relationships.
People.
They just have a condition thatcauses them not to have
successful relationships.
No-transcript.
(20:13):
If you're dating in a insecureattachment style whether it be
an anxious or an avoidance ifthey're aware of what they are
and they're willing to takeaction, I would recommend
working with them and helpingthem become a secure.
These people need help.
Yeah, and they're good people.
They want to do the rightthings.
(20:33):
They have just pre-programmedtheir brain at a very early age
to have these protectivemechanisms and they don't
control them.
It's all happening from yoursubconscious.
Most people don't realize 85%of the decisions you make every
day you make without anyawareness.
95% of your brain issubconscious and you're only
conscious of 5% of what yourbrain does.
Once you reach 25 years of age,you've programmed your brain to
(20:58):
make decisions for you.
That's where this if this, thenthat comes into play.
If this happens, then do that.
It all happens automatically.
Unfortunately for the insecureattachment styles, they've done
something detrimental to themand in some cases it caused
health issues using the avoidant.
They don't process hormonescorrectly.
(21:18):
Part of the challenge of beingan avoidant is that they're more
prone to brain disease,alzheimer's, parkinson's, things
of that nature.
An avoidant lives an average ofseven years less than a secure
human being, and part of that isbecause they're operating only
on cortisol.
They run in a very high stresslevel environment.
(21:38):
They do not process oxytocin,receive oxytocin correctly.
I'm getting very technical, butGABA is produced from oxytocin.
Oxytocin is your love hormone.
Your happy drug is dopamine.
That is something that theavoidant in particular can
create a lot of.
The problem is that's what theylive off of.
That's how they regulate theircortisol.
(22:00):
Dopamine is not designed toregulate your cortisol.
It's GABA it is.
The problem is, if you don'treceive oxytocin correctly, you
don't produce GABA enough.
Your oxytocin levels, yourstress hormone gets out of whack
and the only way they cantamper it down is by creating
dopamine.
That's the main reason whyavoidants swing from
(22:20):
relationship to relationship.
They get into a relationship.
They're receiving theirdopamine when the honeymoon
stage ends.
Now you're switching tooxytocin.
You're getting into theintimacy stage and also what we
call the power struggle stage ofa relationship.
They fear intimacy at thehighest level because now I have
to trust someone else.
What's the key component to anavoidant?
(22:41):
They don't trust anyone butthemselves, so that causes them
stress and pain.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I was also reading about more likely to have
addictive personalities.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Drink alcohol, take drugs, that kind of.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
They are addicts.
They're addicted to dopaminebecause dopamine you can only
produce it for short stints andthen you have to move on from
somebody to start producing thatagain.
Because when you're withsomebody for an extended period
of time, you switch from beinghappy with them to being in love
with them.
The problem is you no longerproduce dopamine anymore.
(23:17):
When you're in love, youproduce oxytocin.
Well, they don't receiveoxytocin correctly.
So now they feel something iswrong.
And their natural instinctbecause they trust themselves
and nobody else is to blametheir partner.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
We're blaming it on the hormones.
Is that what we're doing?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Not exactly.
It's the way they producehormones and the way they
process them.
I don't want to get tooscientific here, but yes, part
of it is hormonal and becausethey're not producing and
processing hormones correctly,it causes health issues for them
Heart attacks.
(23:52):
Whenever your cortisol levelsgo high, that's your stress
hormone.
You're going to have highstress.
What does stress do to yourbody?
Not good things, Very badthings.
For men, it usually attacksyour heart.
For women, it attacks yourbrain.
So it's two different thingsthat are going on there.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So the topic we're talking about today, which feels
a bit warm and fuzzy, it'sreally not about the warm and
fuzzy.
It it's about the core, basicthing that we need to look at
what's going on in our lives,whether we have partners or not,
our friends and family, howwe're talking to them, how we're
reacting to them, like whereare we fitting and how can we
change that.
And you're never too old.
You could be 18 years old andchange your relationship with
(24:35):
somebody based on this and havea better self-awareness about
yourself.
And you could be 18 years oldand change your relationship
with somebody based on this andhave a better self-awareness
about yourself.
And you could be a hundredyears old and maybe add, you
know, a couple of years to yourlife.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
You really can.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah, and when?
When you're in your thirties orforties, why would you want to
live your life this way?
I have a friend right nowactually, that um clearly is
with an avoidant and he heslammed something and, you know,
pounded down and she's like Ithink we're at the end of our
rope and they're married.
And he saw her through adivorce.
It was all really wonderful andnice and lovely.
And now they're probably goingto get a divorce and I'm
(25:09):
thinking this guy won't even goto therapy.
Like where is he in hisself-awareness that he won't go
to therapy?
Why would you be in a marriageand put all that energy into any
kind of partnership?
If I were good friends with theperson next door, am I just
going to toss it aside and letit go because there's some kind
of conflict that's come up, oram I going to take time and work
(25:31):
on it?
But isn't that the matureself-awareness piece?
I've got my issues.
I've never been the perfectpartner, I know I've got all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Guilty as charged.
None of us are perfect.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I've definitely.
I'm sure I've got some of theanxious in there.
I've got things going on thatcame from there.
But I'm very self-aware and I'malways willing to work on it
and I always want to understandmore.
And I know that if I got to apoint in my relationship any
kind of relationship, butparticularly the person that I
love and care about I would sitdown and go to therapy like that
(26:04):
is black and white for me.
Why, Okay, I can hear some ofthe guys go oh, I don't want a
therapist telling me what to do.
I know what's wrong in thisrelationship, but why would you
not turn that stone and spend asecond, you know, or an hour out
of your life once a week for 12weeks to figure that out?
Why won't you do that beforeyou get married, by the way?
Go and see your pastor or go totherapy.
(26:26):
Go through a course, you know.
If you're faithful, go see yourpastor.
They often run courses for this.
But go find out that stuff Likewho are you?
Are you anxious?
What's your tendencies?
Do go find out that stuff likewho are you?
Are you anxious?
What's your tendencies?
Do you want a family?
Do you have any, you know?
Do you smoke?
What do you caulk?
Do you like to go out?
Do you like to stay in?
Find out about people beforeyou get in it and, if you're in
(26:46):
it, spend some time figuring outwhat's going wrong before you
just throw in the towel yes, andthen people need to learn how
to be more open and honest witheach other.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I think the key problem that we're having in
today's society is a lack ofcommunication.
That's why relationships arefailing.
We've become a community or agroup of people who are about
instant gratification.
Right when I was a kid, we hadto go to the public library to
get information.
My kids today sit behind thecomputer and go to Mr Google and
(27:16):
in a matter of moments they cangather a bunch of information.
It doesn't mean it's accurate,but they can be instantly
gratified and receive what theywant.
So I think social media hasplayed a huge role in this,
because now people are trying tocompete with each other.
We're in competition with eachother at a higher level than
we've ever been before.
We don't have a sense ofcommunity the way we used to.
(27:37):
When I was a kid growing up inthe 80s, we ran around in the
streets and played stickball andI was never home.
Today's kids are home behindthe video game.
They're playing with theirphones.
Go to a high school.
You watch them all walkingaround.
You're wondering how they don'tbump into each other because
they're all staring in theirphone.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The kids are actually bumping into things.
They don't have this magicability to correct lampposts or
anything and they are havingmore accidents.
But I'm right with you, I don'tunderstand it at all, and I'm
sure that's part of this,because I was out on my bike.
You know biking through thewoods and finding the old quarry
with water in it, and you knowwe built a rope and we swung out
across the water with the rustyold cars in it, like things
you'd never be allowed to dotoday.
(28:18):
I had a ball every day and Igot home when it was going dark,
but I was always a bit late,you know.
As you can imagine, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
They're always calling me to get me off the
street.
Come in here now.
We gotta eat dinner right?
Today's kids that's not thatway and we don't have the sense
of community the way we did.
Back then I I mean my friend'smother's had permission to
correct me if they needed to.
If somebody else's parent didthat, the parent of the child
would get very upset.
Why are you correcting my child?
That's my child.
(28:46):
We just don't have that sense ofcommunity anymore, and that's
part of what's causing a lot ofthe issues going on in today's
society.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
They call cops or they'd send uncle, depending on
what part of the country youlive in.
Send Uncle Bob around to clockyour new one.
All right, let's move on toanxious, preoccupied.
What do they say?
Characteristics are they fearabandonment and think about
someone in your life.
Does this fit with that?
Overanalyzes.
(29:13):
Interactions can be clingy orpossessive, and they say things
like why didn't you text me back?
Are you mad at me?
Or I feel like I love you morethan you love me?
If you leave, I don't know whatI'll do.
I can't be alone.
Red flags.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
So those partners or their partners often feel
smothered and can never giveenough assurance, have
experienced this and they'llunderstand it now why that was
occurring.
Um, and it's a both are toughlives to lead.
Um, but somebody with ananxious preoccupied you're
you're going to have tounderstand.
They're going to require yourattention on a more regular
basis, or with an avoidant.
(30:08):
They like space.
They they more than anybody,like to have the space.
They prefer to have what wecall a situation ship where
they're not really fully intothe relationship.
They're obtaining the couple ofthings that they want from that
relationship and then go off onyour own.
I don't need you right now.
The anxious preoccupied is justthe opposite.
They're going to want you bytheir side all the time and
(30:29):
anytime they feel stressed,they're going to pull you closer
and that can interfere inpeople's businesses, things of
that nature.
It can become a distraction.
So you have to be aware of whoyour partner is and then help
them self-regulate.
That's one of the challengesfor an anxious.
They don't know how toself-regulate.
Think of a secure.
They don't know how toself-regulate.
(30:49):
They also understand that theyneed to support their partner's
emotions and avoiding is thebest there is.
All they know how to do isauto-regulate.
They can only regulate on theirown.
As soon as there's a challenge,they push you away and they go
try to regulate the problem.
If you try to become a littleclingy, they'll run even faster.
They feel you their partner.
(31:10):
Go fix yourself.
I'm not helping you.
The anxious, preoccupied isjust the opposite.
I need your help to fix myself.
I don't trust myself to fixmyself.
Do I need you to do it for me?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
and that is the really loved me, you'll love
that one too, if you reallyloved me, xyz.
And sometimes it's said in jest, but it's not really in jest,
and I'm sure there's, there's, Imean there's learnings from
both sides, right?
So if the avoidant can, can, um, you know, meet, not halfway
obviously, but even learn somephrases and way to communicate
(31:44):
and way to speak to the personwho's anxious to not necessarily
just to continually reassurethem, but to speak to them in a
different way.
Maybe they won't be so clingyand anxious and won't drive you
nuts, right?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
and it's one of the reasons why avoidance and
anxious are attracted to eachother.
Avoidance want to control therelationship.
They want to control the paceof everything.
That's where avoidance can looklike a narcissist, but they're
not.
They're doing it for differentreasons.
A narcissist wants to controlyou, their partner, and
avoidance is controllingthemselves and the environment
(32:17):
in which their relationship is.
So there's a lot ofsimilarities in their actions.
Where you perceive them asbeing a narcissist, they're not.
An anxious is just the opposite.
They're always requiringsomebody else to validate them
and somebody else to supportthem, and they're not capable of
supporting themselves.
The disorganized gets reallycrazy because you don't know
which one you're dealing with.
(32:38):
I call them, dr Jekyll and MrHyde.
That's where it gets reallyscary because as their partner,
you get very confused.
What am I supposed to do?
I want to help you, but I don'tknow what to do Because when I
do this, you go that way.
When I do that, you go theother way.
So I'm always trying to figureout when I'm dealing with a
fearful avoidant or disorganized, what am I supposed to be doing
(32:59):
?
And that can become very taxingon somebody.
You're walking on eggshells.
When, anytime, somebody hasavoidant tendencies, you have to
plan on the fact that you'regoing to be walking on eggshells
.
Going back to a dismissiveavoidant and directly how it
applies to real estate, let mebe very clear you cannot rely on
a dismissive avoidant.
Directly how it applies to realestate.
Let me be very clear you cannotrely on a dismissive avoidant
(33:19):
for anything.
They're not going to be therewhen you want them to be.
They're not capable of itbecause they don't trust you,
even though they're in arelationship, and as soon as
there's a problem or a challenge, they're going to disengage and
they're going to go fixthemselves and they feel you
need to go fix yourself.
And that's where it gets reallychallenging.
Specifically to real estate.
I'm married to an avoidant andshe triggers.
(33:41):
She's going to file for divorceand now I've got to now sell
real estate.
So that's one of the challengeswe're going to talk about today
.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
And in the transaction as well.
Oh my gosh.
So let's move on to the nextone, the dismissive avoidant.
This is the person that avoidsdeep emotional bonds and
characteristics of valueindependence Exactly what you
were just saying over emotionalintimacy, emotion, distant,
avoids deep conversations, andthey say things like I don't do
(34:10):
drama.
Relationships shouldn't be thiscomplicated.
I don't really believe inneeding a partner to be happy.
I'm just not the type to say Ilove you.
It doesn't mean I don't care.
And the red flag they avoidcommitment and they push people
away emotionally.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
That's correct.
And now think about that, howthat could apply to your life.
You're in a relationship withsomebody that you're guaranteed
you cannot rely on, and that isa challenge, and there are ways
to pull the avoidant into, butthey have to be willing to do
the lifting.
You and I have talked aboutthis from a leadership
perspective you can only bring ahorse to water.
(34:49):
You can't make it drink, andthat's one of the challenges
with dismissive avoidance is thetitle says everything.
They dismiss you and they avoid.
Those are their two main traits, and so I don't like labels.
That's why I call them DAs andFAs.
I'm not a big fan of labelingpeople, um, but that is exactly
(35:09):
what they do.
They'll dismiss you from at anygiven moment and they will
avoid any challenges that takeplace.
And what's interesting aboutthem is the entire time when
they trigger, they do notcommunicate the fact that
they're having ill feelings.
They continue to love bomb onyou so, as their partner, you're
not even aware that they'rehaving ill feelings.
They continue to love bomb onyou so, as their partner, you're
not even aware that they'rehaving a problem.
And then one day they'll wakeup and they literally erase you
(35:31):
and you'll wake up.
They're gone.
They've now blocked you on allsocial media channels.
They blocked you on the cellphone.
You can't communicate with themin any fashion and you have
absolutely no clue why, andthey're known for that.
That is one of their key traits.
What's interesting about thedismissive avoidance is they
have a what we call therelationship death wheel.
They do the same cycle over andover.
(35:51):
That's why you have, that's whythey have so many relationships
.
They just keep repeating thesame cycle over and over again.
Phase seven and eight of theircycle is when they go into their
reminiscence stage and theirnostalgia stage.
So stage six they six.
They've left you.
They're now excited, they'reexuberant about it, they're
happy they've left you.
I have my independence back.
That usually lasts betweenthree and four months.
(36:14):
The reason they're able to dothat is they're the kings of
suppressing their emotions.
You can only suppress youremotions for so long.
At some point those emotionsare going to come to the surface
.
When they do it, it hits themlike a ton of bricks.
And now they become very sad.
They start feeling guilt.
They start realizing wait aminute, my partner wasn't that
(36:35):
bad.
Maybe it was me, and that's why, 40% of the time an avoidant
will attempt to return to therelationship or at least
establish communication with you.
But there has to be a period ofno contact.
They need to understand.
The only time that'll happen iswhen they truly believe you've
moved on and possibly evenstarted another relationship,
(36:57):
and then they'll try to reachout to you and contact you,
thinking there might be anopportunity to have a
conversation.
And more often than not thatperson's already moved on and
now they're in anotherrelationship, and why they don't
get to reenter thatrelationship again.
So they go through a verymaddening cycle.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Something's going through my head right now and
I'm wondering for gentlemen outthere whether you're feeling the
same thing or whether it's agirl thing, because I'm thinking
as you're talking about thesedifferent characters, I see
people that I've dated or beenmarried to in all of them like,
oh my gosh, it's so clear asyou're talking through it and
(37:32):
we're saying the statements andyou're really rounding that out.
Chris, thank you so much.
I'm wondering is a guy sittingout there listening today
feeling the same way?
Or do guys just not care andthey're like, whatever you know,
get on with it, let's go oh noguys care.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Everybody has an attachment style.
Now, typically men areavoidance.
In the past were the largergroup of the avoidance Anxious
were women.
The fearful avoidant were alsowomen.
They had 30% that were avoidantand 5% fearful and 25% anxious.
We've seen a large increase indismissive, avoidant women.
(38:10):
That's in the last 10 to 15years.
I didn't know that is.
We're passing.
This is why I do it.
People ask me the big why, whyI'm having these conversations.
We are screwing up our children.
We're passing our attachmentstyles on to our children.
Remember that snowball goingdown the hill and getting larger
.
It's coming and we're passingour attachment styles onto their
(38:31):
children.
So if you have an avoidant malein a relationship and there's
not a good connection with themother and they don't have a
good connection with the father,there's a higher probability
that that child will become anavoidant.
If there's an anxious withinthat family and again, there's
not a good emotional connection,that first five years, there's
(38:51):
a higher probability thatchild's going to become an
anxious.
I'm talking to a woman rightnow that has two children and
she's realized that she's anavoidant and she's getting very
concerned because her kids are10 and 14 years old.
Do my children have a brokenattachment style Because I've
identified as a dismissiveavoidant and I realize I have
(39:13):
challenges and now I'm learningI might be passing them on to
them and there are things youcan do to help prevent it.
But ultimately, if they do forma broken attachment, it's going
to have to be repaired within arelationship.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Let's move on to the fearful avoidance.
So hot and cold behavior anddeep trust issues, emotional
unpredictability.
I'm telling you I'm never, everdating again and the statement
is I want to be with you, butsometimes I just need to
disappear for a while.
I love you but I don't know ifI can trust you.
People always let me down.
(39:48):
I'm scared that if I let you in, you'll hurt me too.
And the red flag is thepush-pull dynamic and
self-sabotaging of relationships.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yes, anybody with avoidant tendencies.
The DA or the FA areself-sabotagers and the fearful
avoidant has avoidancy in themand they have the push-pull.
They're the most confusing.
As I said, dr Jekyll and MrHyde, you just don't know which
one you're going to get and whenthey're in their anxious stage,
(40:19):
they'll try to pull you closer,become clingy.
You respond to that as theirpartner.
You want to give them what theyneed.
You're a loving partner.
Once you start giving to thatto them, now the avoidancy kicks
in and now they start pushingyou away.
So you turn around and, okay,I'll give you your space.
So the moment you give thisspace, no, no, no, come back
here.
Then you come back and you'realways in that push-pull
(40:39):
environment and a very confusingenvironment to be in.
So and it can affect a lot ofdecisions that you make.
Again, tying into ourconversation of real estate,
when you're in a relationshipwith somebody like that, you
have to count on the fact thatyou cannot rely on them.
So when you're making adecision on buying real estate,
you have to prepare.
They're probably going to leavespecifically anyone with
(41:03):
avoidant tendencies in them.
The anxious, pure anxious.
They're going to try to stay atall costs.
Anxious don't usually run away.
Just the opposite, they getvery clingy.
So it's a different mindsetwhen you're buying real estate
with somebody like that.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I think I'm secure with tendencies and I think I
started off this conversationtoday with anxious tendencies.
Now I think I've got avoidanttendencies just by the time on.
And can you believe we've onlygot 12 minutes left.
I never know where these hoursgo on a Saturday morning.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I want to scoot right downbecause we've only got 12
(41:37):
minutes left.
Obviously, we can see how thestats are shocking.
What's going on in the world isshocking.
The amount of divorce in theworld is shocking.
The amount of divorce in theworld is shocking.
I had somebody yesterdaytalking about we're in a meeting
together and he was saying oh,I don't know, you know, I've got
this Indian friend who is in anarranged marriage and after all
these years she's finallythinking that she loves the guy.
(42:00):
And I don't know how they dothese arranged marriages.
And I'm like what do you thinkwe do?
You know, first of all wearrange our marriages ourselves
and usually we don't put a wholelot of thought or time into
what we're doing.
And sometimes I mean I knowsomebody who just a couple of
years ago got married, I don'tknow, four weeks after meeting
someone.
Good Lord, we're settingourselves up.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
The funny part about that is arranged marriages have
a higher success rate thanunarranged marriages, and
usually that's because theparties entering into an
arranged marriage aretraditionalists and they
continue the traditions.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
When the parties care right.
So the families know each otherand usually the families are
going to care about the children, so they're matchmaking, caring
about their children.
So it's you know some of it.
I'm not listen.
I'm not arguing for arrangedmarriages here.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
It's funny you say that, though, shame plays a big
role in that, shame will causepeople to stay in marriages and,
statistically, if you haveproblems in your marriage and
you stay together for five yearsduring those problems, you'll
stay together for the rest ofyour life.
That's why I say there's onlyfour or five key reasons why
people should even consider adivorce.
Physical abuse, drug abuse,alcoholism, things of that
(43:13):
nature Okay, we get it.
Somebody's infidelity, they'recheating on you.
Again, those are personaldecisions.
Do I stay or don't?
I understand why people wouldexit a marriage because of that,
but if you're leaving amarriage over transactional
stuff, you probably should lookin the mirror and think twice
about that, because you'rehurting your partner, you're
hurting your children and,ultimately, you're hurting
(43:34):
yourself.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Gosh, I'm getting chills as you're talking.
Honestly, you're literallymaking the hair stand up on my
neck.
I was listening to a MalRobbins podcast yesterday and it
was an attorney who'd written abook and was talking about
conversational styles.
Obviously, you know he's goinginto legislate and it was so
interesting and he was talkingabout these key phrases and one
of them that I thought was sointeresting is just learning the
(43:57):
phrase.
First of all, to sit and listenand not come back and be
defensive.
Right, that's never any good,but the phrase was I could have
done better Because itimmediately, just, you know,
dissolves that heat of themoment, takes a pause and allows
you to have a conversation.
I really liked it.
I like gathering those because,especially as you're becoming
more self-aware and you'reworking on yourself, for me,
(44:21):
maybe I'm just that type ofperson having a few key things
that I remember to say in themoment when my waveform and
brain is going, you know I'mready to fight back, like having
something key to say.
And you know, doing the three,four, five, where you breathe in
for three and hold for four andbreathe out for five, like
those little techniques can beso helpful.
(44:43):
I want to get some stats here.
So loneliness in younger andolder generations.
We've touched on this in theshows before the stats are.
We've touched on this today,but I wanted to hear these stats
guys.
40% of people aged between 16and 24 report feeling lonely.
We've talked about it.
What's happening to families?
Old, older adults?
(45:03):
One in three, and that's lessthan the young adults.
How crazy is that?
One in three between 50 and 80reported feeling isolated in the
past year.
I want to scoot over Chris,just because of our lack of time
here.
I knew we'd do this because wehave so much fun talking to each
other.
In case I didn't say so at thetop, I've known Chris for over a
(45:26):
decade and he's just one of thebest people to speak to.
Lucky Matt Chris.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Blow up his phone.
No, I'm just kidding, but he isavailable for coaching on this
as well as doing amazing realestate in Naples, florida, let's
talk about in the last fewminutes.
We have how to break the cycle.
You know, identifying yourstyle, obviously becoming aware
We've got couples how tonavigate buying and selling a
home with emotional turmoil.
(45:52):
You can do this all in fiveminutes, right For singles.
How to make those confidentreal estate decisions without
that fear-based thinking andjust generally, maybe we throw
real estate out for a minute.
You know, how do you?
How'd you get better, chris?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
um, you have to do it within relationship.
And then, as I say a a you haveto have awareness.
Okay, I'm an avoidant, I'm ananxious, I'm aware of it.
Now you also have to takeaction.
As I say, awareness withoutaction is useless.
Okay, so you're Now what youhave to take action.
And those actions look likeleaning into it.
(46:28):
Again, the avoidant doesn'ttrust anybody.
They have to learn how to trusttheir partner.
They have to build a littleconfidence With an avoidant,
though it's actually physicallypainful for them to do so.
They built such a copingmechanism that if they try to
violate that coping mechanism,it'll actually cause physical
pain for them.
But they have to go throughthat process.
(46:51):
They can transition from anavoidant to a secure in a matter
of three to six months just bylearning how to trust their
partner openly and honestlycommunicating.
One of the first things I tellan avoidant when something is
bothering you, you have 24 hoursto communicate that to your
partner.
Because one of the challengesthat avoidants have is they
stuff.
They're stuffers.
They take these little bricks.
You did this wrong.
They put it in theirsubconscious.
(47:12):
Over time they build a wall.
Once that wall is built, theytrigger and they disengage from
the relationship.
That's where that erasing takesplace.
The whole time the partnerdoesn't know any of this is
coming because they're lovebombing during the process.
The anxious does the same thing, but just the opposite.
They don't trust themselves.
I think the anxious have aneasier path to security than an
(47:34):
avoidant does, because theanxious only has to learn how to
trust one person themselves.
They already trust everyoneelse.
That's who they're looking forvalidation.
The avoidant, I think, has alittle bit harder path, because
they don't trust anyone butthemselves and now they have to
learn how to trust others, andthat includes their children,
their mothers, their fathers,their deep relationships,
(47:54):
because that's the only placethese things show up is in your
deep relationships.
All of them are good atmaintaining friendships because
they're getting dopamine fromthose friendships and they don't
have to commit to them.
They can't run and walk away atany point in time, so your
insecure attachment styles dovery well in friendships.
That's why their friends getconfused when they have so many
(48:15):
relationship problems.
Wow, you're a really niceperson.
I don't know why this keepshappening, and where the problem
is is the commitment standpoint.
When you fall in love withsomebody, you're now committing
to them and avoiding inparticular.
That is their biggest fear I'mgoing to give up my independence
and anxious.
Their biggest fear is you'regoing to abandon me.
Oh no, I have to commit to thisperson.
(48:36):
You're going to abandon me.
I already know that Meanwhile.
That's not true, and not in mostcases.
If they actually told theirpartner what was going on inside
their head, they would probablycome to a resolution and that
partner would support thememotionally.
But if you're not aware thatyour partner is going through
that, how can you help them?
And that's where that open andhonest communication comes into
(48:56):
play.
You asked about single peopleand buying real estate.
I would encourage single peopleto buy real estate all the time
.
You're not going to triggerwhile you're alone and can go
out and buy an asset.
Um, and feel good about that.
Now, if you're dating somebodythat's a, an avoidant or an
anxious and insecure style, justbe aware at that point not to
(49:18):
put them on the title for awhile and make sure that the
relationship is going to last.
Um, specifically with anavoidant, because they're going
to trigger usually within 24months.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
The two-year spot, it seems like, and they just
repeat.
I'm wondering.
I mean I don't want to make allavoidance men.
We know a few more of avoidancein male than female.
But are those the kinds that goto the bar every night and say
I'll be home by seven o'clock?
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Avoidance is some of the hardest work, is they get it
.
They have an addiction issue,as I say, and they get addicted
to work.
Um, they do like to go out andparty a little bit like any, any
of the attachment styles, um,with friends, things of that
nature, but no, they're notusually trying to date within
bars I didn't mean in terms ofcheating or dating.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I meant in terms of getting that hit from their
friends who they're not reallycommitted to.
All their best friends are atthe bar.
It's like a cheers bar but theydon't have those deep
friendships.
They don't go out to dinner,they don't go on vacation with
them, but they're these core,key friends at the bar that they
visit on a regular basis, thatthey're getting that hit from
and then they're going home.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
Yeah, and usually the avoidant won't stay long.
They come in, they get theirdopamine, they'll stay for a
little while and then get up andleave, because one of the ways
to identify an avoidant isthey'll pronounce their
independence.
Anyone that walks around sayingall the time that they're
independent be very cautious of,because there's a high
probability they're going tohave avoidant tendencies.
Another way to identify them,if you're dating them, is try to
(50:44):
find out how they handleconflict resolution.
How do you handle problemswithin your relationship?
If they say something likestuff things and shut down and
then encode?
You're dating an avoidant.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
They don't tell me that, chris.
We know they do.
Oh yeah, they do actuallyReally.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yeah, I dated an avoidant by month four.
I knew she was a dismissiveavoidant.
I put her basically through.
I asked her about 20 of theassessment questions.
That's one of the great partabout the assessment questions.
They can be multiple choice orthey can be singular um.
So you can do it verbally andyou know you've been through the
process of learning the discand different behavioral
(51:20):
profiles.
You and I don't determinesomebody else's profile.
They do by what they say andwhat they do um.
So all you have to be able todo is be able to slide the
questions, and that's a greatpart about attachment theory.
You can actually slide thequestions in basically the week
you're starting to date andwithin a short period of time
you'll have a good idea of who'ssitting across the table from
(51:41):
you very, very true.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
thank you so much today, Chris.
That was amazing.
Chris is actually going to bespotlighted on our real estate
app called Listing Royalty, ofcourse, and we have a whole
course and a download and we'vegot a wonderful thing that
you'll be able to download onthere.
Download on there so you canhit either of us up, obviously,
(52:05):
listening on the radio to me,hit me up on Facebook you're
friends with me all over theplace Rowena Patton or just give
a call.
828.
We've got people on the phones24-7,.
828-333-4483.
You've got it.
You know how to get hold of me.
It's awesome.
We'll send you the link to theentire course and the downloads
(52:25):
so you can figure out what thatperson is in your life.
But, Chris, what happens if weend up causing some divorces?
They've been happy for 20 yearsand now they're like well,
guess what I found out?
You're.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
I think they know two really good real estate agents,
so I'd be happy to help themwith their issues and sell their
assets for them.
I don't wish anyone demise, butif those things occur, divorce
is a fact of life and we're hereto help them.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
We love you all and thank you for listening.
This is Rowena Patton on theReal Estate News Radio Show.
Tell your friends to go torealestatenewsradiocom.
That's realestatenewsradiocom.
There's a link to listen liveand also to download this
episode and all of the others,or you can give us a call,
(53:14):
828-333-4483.
We've got people standing by24-7.
They'll take a message if it'sthe middle of the night.
Thank you to Chris Evanson, ourwonderful guest today, and
we'll see you on the radio nextweek.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
This has been the Plain English Real Estate Show
with Rowena Patton.
Visit Rowena and post yourquestions at radioashvillecom or
call her at 828-210-1648.
This is the Plain English Real Estate Show with
your host, rowena Patton, a showthat focuses on the real estate
market in terms you can easilyunderstand.
Call Rowena now.
The number is 240-9962 or1-800-570-9962.
Now here's the English girl inthe mountains, the agent that I
(00:20):
would trust, rowena Patton.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey, sean Hannity here talking with the only real
estate agent in your market.
I recommend Rowena Patton withAll Star Powerhouse.
Now more than ever, buyers andsellers need an expert to
navigate this ever-changingmarket.
And what do you do to stand out?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Thanks for asking, sean.
Just like you inform listenerson the Hannity Show, my job is
to make sure homeowners have thefacts they need to make the
best decisions.
At the end of the day, theywant to know two things how I
can sell the home faster and formore money.
But what many don't realize isjust how stressful the process
can be.
(00:59):
Over a third of homes fall outof contract, almost always due
to inspection and appraisalissues.
Sean, that's why I created theCertified Pre-Owned or CPO,
homes Program in 2007.
With CPO, we take control upfront, cutting contract fallout
to just 7%.
(01:20):
When a home falls out ofcontract, it can become
stigmatized, often leading toprice drops, but with a CPO,
home buyers and agents go inwith full transparency fewer
negotiations, more showings anda smoother sale.
I've trained agents nationwideon this, written a best-selling
(01:41):
book about it and I love helpingsellers in Asheville,
hendersonville and Waynesvillesell faster, with less stress
and for top dollars.
And, sean, for sellers who wantto skip the showings and hassle
, we offer a CPO full marketvalue cash offer, whether
traditional or cash.
We help homeowners get sold thesmart way and, what's more,
(02:06):
I've trained agents nationwideto help you in this.
So just reach out and we canfind you a top agent that's
trained to sell this way.
I've helped over 3,500 familieslocally with their moves, so
something's working right.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Call Rowena Patton right now at 828-333-4483 or
online at mountainhomehuntcom.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Hey, it's Rowena Patton here on the Real Estate
News Radio Show.
I am so excited.
Today I've got a very specialguest and, gosh, I've known this
guy for a glass of red wine agoand Austin get togethers ago
and at least 10 years.
This is Chris Evanson, who's areal estate firm owner in Naples
(02:54):
, and he's also an expert inattachment styles.
Hello, everyone.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
How are you, Rowena?
It's great to see you again.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
We're going to have so much fun today.
Why the heck are we talkingabout attachment styles?
Give a two-minute overview ofwhat the heck attachment styles
are.
A lot of our listeners haveheard about them, obviously, but
you know, just give us a littletaster in there.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, attachment styles are based on.
Everyone has an attachmentstyle.
There's four differentattachment styles secure,
anxious, avoidant anddisorganized.
Everyone has an attachmentstyle and it will affect the way
you make your decisions on aday-to-day basis.
85% of your subconscious isformed by the time you're five
years old.
The way you attach to yourmother, in particular, is very,
(03:38):
very important.
If there is some form of brokenattachment during that
five-year span that causes achild to either become anxious
or avoidant, um, they willdevelop that attachment style as
of the age of, as of the age of25.
They'll continue on.
That'll be their decisions andrelationships.
The rest of their life.
They will use that style tomake those decisions well,
(03:58):
that's a little scary, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
can you get better, chris?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
yes, you can change your attachment style.
Unfortunately, the great manupstairs has a sick sense of
humor, as I say the only way youcan do so is within
relationship.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Oh Lordy.
Okay then.
Well, why the heck are wetalking about this today on the
Real Estate News Radio Show?
This is about real estate.
How do the two things gotogether, chris?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Your attachment style can dictate some things and,
specifically for your partner,if you're in a relationship with
a specific type of attachmentstyle person and if they are
insecure, they can change thedecisions, they can influence
the decisions in a directionthat you may or may not want it
to go into, and we're going tohave that conversation today,
(04:44):
got it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
And, of course, in real estate we deal with a lot
of breakups, a lot of divorces,a lot of relocations, and
obviously the attachment stylescome into play when those things
are passing us by.
Oh my gosh, this is afascinating one.
If you haven't already, youbetter put some whiskey in your
(05:05):
coffee for this one.
Waking up on a morning, maybeyou're listening to the podcast,
so get comfy and grab a cup ofcoffee and snuggle up and let's
go.
Are they going to need sometissues or anything?
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Chris, no they won't need any tissues, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Do they need to get someone to give them a hug or
make them feel better after this?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
How should we prepare to listen to you for this?
Well, if they're an anxious,they're probably going to want a
hug.
If they're an avoidant, theyprobably don't want a hug.
So we're going to get into thedifferent types of styles that
we have that are out there thefour different styles and how
they operate using theirattachment style.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
One day we'll get secure enough that we can
actually do it on the show and Icould say to you what do you
think?
I am Chris, but I don't know ifI'm there today.
So maybe I'm an anxious ormaybe I'm a secure and it would
be OK, we'll see.
So it's going to be so fun.
We're diving into this topicand it affects so many of us our
relationships, marriage,divorce, business partnerships,
(06:01):
what we do in our real estate,understanding how we attach to
others I mean it plays a hugerole in our success and
happiness and can definitelyimpact your real estate
decisions.
So, oh my gosh, all right,chris, can we go into what are
these main four styles?
(06:23):
Let's just look at the stylesfirst and then we'll dig into
each one after we understandwhat the different styles are or
get a good idea about what thedifferent styles are.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
There's four different styles.
The first we'll cover is secure.
It represents about 40% of ourpopulation.
That has shrank from 50% overthe last about 15 years.
Yikes, back in the 1950s theywere estimating they were about
75 percent secure.
So we've seen a drasticincrease over the last 75 years,
specifically in the last 15years, of more and more insecure
(06:54):
styles, as I share with people.
To simplify it, it's like asnowball rolling down the hill
and it just keeps getting bigger.
This is a epidemic happening inour country and it's affecting
people's lives, health,emotional well-being and it's
also affecting their decisionswhen they're purchasing real
estate.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I really don't like it at all, but I love that
statistic and, interestingly, Idon't know whether we'll use the
video or not and put it onYouTube for this, but you might
want to watch it because you'llsee the silliest faces coming
out of me, because you gave thatstatistic of 75% in the 1950s
and my mouth dropped open.
(07:34):
That is not a pretty sight, butyou're dying to see the shock
and horror on my face when yougave that statistic.
So we've gone from 75% to 40%.
No wonder you're saying it's anepidemic, especially and people
will understand that as we gothrough the different styles, I
am dying to get into that one.
And then we go to the anxious,preoccupied.
(07:54):
Tell us a little bit about thatone.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Anxious, preoccupied.
They're the pullers in therelationship.
They're the ones that feel veryneedy.
The key component to an anxiouspreoccupied is they trust
everyone but themselves.
They're always seekingvalidation.
They're looking for validationfrom their partner that they are
okay.
They're not capable ofself-regulation.
They need others to regulatethem, their emotions, for them.
(08:19):
They can be very nervous,anxious that's why they're
called anxious.
They're also the ones that will, when there's a dispute within
a relationship, will become veryneedy and try to pull you
closer to them and, dependingupon who their partner is, that
may affect their partner ingreat ways and we're going to
cover some of that based on eachattachment style.
(08:40):
Anxious can be very nervous.
They seem very nervous.
They can get very angry whenthings are not going well within
the relationship.
They're the ones that are thestalkers, so they'll follow you
home after a breakup.
They'll follow you to work.
They'll stalk you on socialmedia, things of that nature
right out of the gate.
When there is a dispute withina relationship, they want to
(09:00):
deal with it now and right, thisvery second.
And that is the cleanestdefinition, simplest definition
for people to understand.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Have you ever had a stalker, Chris?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yes, actually I have.
I've been married to an anxiouspreoccupied.
I've dated a fearful avoidant.
I've dated a dismissiveavoidant, so I've had experience
with all three.
The anxious preoccupied becameinsecure when she was in a
relationship with me.
So did the fearful avoidant,because that's part of how you
transition you have to be inrelationship with someone and
(09:35):
then you have to do the work toget there Because I'm insecure.
I'm insecure with anxioustendencies.
I'm what they call a madesecure.
My bonding with my mother whenI was a child was not the
greatest, but I lived with mygrandparents from age five to 25
.
And she became my adoptedmother and they were very secure
people.
So I wound up coming out as asecure with anxious tendencies.
The only time my anxious sidecomes out is when I'm in a
(09:57):
dispute, in a relationshipdispute.
Otherwise, I'm very secure.
One of my mates willtraditionally, if I don't do
anything silly, will becomesecure along with me, as long as
I'm aware of who they are.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Well, thank you for being so humble and sharing
there, like your vulnerableness,particularly because it helps
us understand what you'retalking about in that.
And obviously I'm guessing atleast and I'm not talking about
your personal relationships,because I wouldn't go there.
However, I'm guessing that ifyou've got the anxious
preoccupied in a relationship,often the dismissive avoidance
(10:30):
are attracted to those peoplebecause you know Very good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
They're like magnets to each other.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, and then when the avoidance is in the
honeymoon phase, it's allwonderful.
Am I guessing that thedismissive avoidance are the
love bombers?
Is that what we call them, theones who are-.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Oh, they're both love bombers, and everybody with an
insecure attachment can be alove bomber.
They do it a little bitdifferently.
An anxious, preoccupied will doit the day you meet them and
they start loving on, lovebombing on you within a week,
and an avoidant will usuallytake somewhere between 30 and 60
days.
They kind of ease their wayinto their relationship.
They want to make sure thatthis is something they're
interested in, because they havethe shortest attention span of
(11:08):
all these styles that there are.
Once they feel that they'recomfortable and they like that
person, then their love bombingstarts.
Their love bombing is the mostintense of the bunch and they
will love all of you.
As I say, they write a lovestory and they live it until
they reach a certain point andthat's when the honeymoon stage
is over.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And then the anxious preoccupied gets all needy,
which pushes them away even more, and it's the end of the
relationship.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
All of your insecure attachment styles have what we
call a trigger or a major fear.
The major fear of an anxious,preoccupied is abandonment.
The major fear of an avoidantis loss of independence and
showing vulnerability.
They don't feel comfortable.
A simple way to define thedifference between the two an
(11:57):
anxious, preoccupied trustseveryone but themselves.
An avoidant trusts themselvesonly and do not trust anyone
else.
Avoid and trust themselves onlyand do not trust anyone else.
Then you have the disorganized.
The disorganized has bothinside of them.
Think of it this way you have40% secures on the planet right
now, about 30% avoidance, 25%anxious and 5% disorganized.
(12:17):
So the disorganized are a veryrare breed.
When you do come across one,they're very confusing.
They're the hardest ones tohave a relationship with because
one day they're pulling youcloser.
They're pulling you closer.
As soon as you start respondingto that, now they're avoiding,
kicks in and they start pushingyou away and pushing you away.
So you go through thisemotional rollercoaster with
this disorganized, where you'regoing back and forth all the
(12:40):
time and you're alwaysstruggling as their partner to
find the balance in that yeah,I'm just never going to date
again let me take a second andsay something.
And people are not bad people.
They have a condition that theypre-program their brain with
from age zero to 25.
Usually between zero and fiveis the most of it.
(13:00):
Your subconscious is 85% formedby the time you're five years
old.
That subconscious is built onexperiences.
You create triggers, or copingmechanisms.
You know, I've talked aboutthis in the past with the disc.
Those coping mechanisms looksomething like this If then?
Then that If this happens,subconsciously, your mind tells
(13:25):
you to do that.
You're not aware that thosethings are taking place.
You're now 30 years old.
You're in the dating world.
Something triggers you.
You automatically run for thedoors using an avoidance.
They're not aware they're doingthat.
They think that is normal.
That is their normalperceptions, reality, they don't
understand.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I know a student in his 50s that continually says
why do I keep blowing up myrelationships and his
relationships last three yearsor less and he's in his 50s.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
That's a sign of an avoidant.
I do some relationshipcounseling.
I've obtained several recentpeople approach me about it.
Of the eight people that cameto me, six of them are avoidants
because they're out there.
Something I've learned throughstudy and also personal
experience in talking to thesepeople sometime between age 40
and age 50, the dismissiveavoidant in particular starts
(14:17):
feeling very, very lonely andthey start looking in the mirror
.
They start reminiscing and theyget very nostalgic about their
past relationships and theystart to realize the mirror.
They start reminiscing and getvery nostalgic about their past
relationships and they start torealize you know what, maybe it
wasn't them.
And the story's always the same.
When I talk to a DA, theyalways blame their partner.
They usually have multiples.
The gentleman I'm referring tois 46 years old.
(14:38):
He runs a $600 millionconglomeration.
God bless him.
But his relationship life hasbeen a complete disaster.
He's had 12 relationships bythe time he's 46 years old.
It lasted a year or more andall of them ended within two
years.
All of them he blamed hispartner for that relationship
ending.
And now he's waking up at 46years old realizing he's very
(15:01):
alone, feeling very lonely, andhe started to look in the mirror
.
As far as maybe it wasn't them,maybe I have something to do
with it and that's how he gotreferred to me common
denominator that's usually whatit is it's self-awareness, right
and self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Obviously self-awareness doesn't cure you,
but self-awareness gets you onthe exit ramp from this highway
of just blotto zone of doingwhat your caveman or cavewoman
brain is telling you.
It's at least getting you offthe exit ramp to say wait,
something's going on here.
And I'm aware that maybe thestring of relationships, or
(15:38):
maybe the fact I'm not in one,or maybe the fact I'm feeling
lonely, maybe it's not all abouteverybody else I've dated for
the last 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It takes some time, you know.
They have to have some historyto look back on to realize when
you're in your 20s and you'redating, you're not thinking
about it, you're just goingthrough the motions.
Now you reach your 40s and 50sand you start looking backwards
and being nostalgic, looking atthe relationships, thinking
about what some of the wonderfulpeople you've dated why didn't
that work out?
(16:08):
And they start coming to therealization because they have so
many of them that wait a minute, maybe it was me and they look
in the mirror and they startseeking answers.
And it's loneliness that causesthat to occur.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And they're getting grandkids right.
So all their friends aregetting grandkids and they don't
have grandkids.
I'm thinking about the people Iknow in those situations.
They're starting to think Idon't want to die alone.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Correct and those are the type of thoughts that start
taking place, specifically theavoidant.
They're the ones that usually,later on in life, end up alone
and they don't find a mate.
All avoidants are fearful andthey don't find a mate.
All avoidance you're fearfuland you're dismissive.
Fearfuls, in particular, areknown for severe loneliness and
ending their lives on being ontheir own, and it's very sad.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And there you're talking about a fearful avoidant
and it's all about if I let youin, I'm going to be consumed
and manipulated and everythingelse that fits very well and
sadly, I mean I hate to think ofthis person being and
everything else that fits verywell and sadly, I mean I hate to
think of this person beingalone for the rest of their
lives.
That's so sad.
Let's shift over to where wewant to get, to Secure
attachment styles.
(17:15):
We put some scripts together,chris and I, around what people
actually say.
What does this look like?
So that you at home listeningor in the car, start giggling to
yourself in the car as you'relistening to these as we go
through them.
A secure attachment, which,sadly, is a much smaller
proportion than it used to be inthe 50s, at 75 percent um, I
(17:37):
would hesitate to wonder if it'seven 40 percent these days, but
a secure attachment style likea healthy balance.
This is somebody who'scomfortable with intimacy and
autonomy, communicates openly,resolves conflicts healthily.
What do these statements looklike?
I love spending time with you,but I also enjoy my own space.
(17:58):
Let's talk through this issueand find a solution together.
I trust you completely and Idon't need constant reassurance,
and the red flags they're goingto avoid are extreme jealousy,
avoidant behaviors or emotionaloutbursts.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Right, and those three descriptors you just gave
are the descriptors of threedifferent insecure styles.
Secures are balanced.
We call them the boring peoplein relationship.
They don't get overly emotional, they're not love bombers, but
they're going to love on you,they're going to care about you,
they're going to show affection, they're going to do those
things, but they're not going tolove bomb you.
They also usually don'tparticipate in arguments too
(18:41):
long.
Will they jump in the arenabecause they love you?
Yes, they will.
When it starts to get reallyheated you know five, ten
minutes to it they're going tocheck out.
This isn't healthy.
They're going to want todisengage from that argument and
take some space.
So the descriptors you gave arethe descriptors of the three
other insecure styles, andsecures usually try to avoid
those things.
(19:05):
The challenge in today's datingworld and relationship world is
they're very hard to avoid.
They're everywhere, especiallyas you get older.
Right now, 60% of ourpopulation has an insecure style
.
The one thing that's very clearabout secures most of them get
into a loving, deep relationshipat a young age and they stay
there.
I mean, we talked about you andI've talked about highly
successful people and some oftheir traits, one of the key
(19:29):
traits to a highly successfulperson is they're usually in at
least prior to 20 years ago,they were in deep, long, lasting
relationships.
They take that issue off thetable.
It's no longer an issue.
They can go focus on buildingtheir wealth, building their
family and doing the things theyfeel they need to do.
So as you get older, there'sless and less secures available
on the market and more and moreinsecures on the market.
So if you're over 40 and in thedating world, you're going to
(19:52):
come across these people.
I want to start out by sayingthey're very good people.
I want to start out sayingthey're very good people.
They're not bad people.
They just have a condition thatcauses them not to have
successful relationships.
People.
They just have a condition thatcauses them not to have
successful relationships.
No-transcript.
(20:13):
If you're dating in a insecureattachment style whether it be
an anxious or an avoidance ifthey're aware of what they are
and they're willing to takeaction, I would recommend
working with them and helpingthem become a secure.
These people need help.
Yeah, and they're good people.
They want to do the rightthings.
(20:33):
They have just pre-programmedtheir brain at a very early age
to have these protectivemechanisms and they don't
control them.
It's all happening from yoursubconscious.
Most people don't realize 85%of the decisions you make every
day you make without anyawareness.
95% of your brain issubconscious and you're only
conscious of 5% of what yourbrain does.
Once you reach 25 years of age,you've programmed your brain to
(20:58):
make decisions for you.
That's where this if this, thenthat comes into play.
If this happens, then do that.
It all happens automatically.
Unfortunately for the insecureattachment styles, they've done
something detrimental to themand in some cases it caused
health issues using the avoidant.
They don't process hormonescorrectly.
(21:18):
Part of the challenge of beingan avoidant is that they're more
prone to brain disease,alzheimer's, parkinson's, things
of that nature.
An avoidant lives an average ofseven years less than a secure
human being, and part of that isbecause they're operating only
on cortisol.
They run in a very high stresslevel environment.
(21:38):
They do not process oxytocin,receive oxytocin correctly.
I'm getting very technical, butGABA is produced from oxytocin.
Oxytocin is your love hormone.
Your happy drug is dopamine.
That is something that theavoidant in particular can
create a lot of.
The problem is that's what theylive off of.
That's how they regulate theircortisol.
(22:00):
Dopamine is not designed toregulate your cortisol.
It's GABA it is.
The problem is, if you don'treceive oxytocin correctly, you
don't produce GABA enough.
Your oxytocin levels, yourstress hormone gets out of whack
and the only way they cantamper it down is by creating
dopamine.
That's the main reason whyavoidants swing from
(22:20):
relationship to relationship.
They get into a relationship.
They're receiving theirdopamine when the honeymoon
stage ends.
Now you're switching tooxytocin.
You're getting into theintimacy stage and also what we
call the power struggle stage ofa relationship.
They fear intimacy at thehighest level because now I have
to trust someone else.
What's the key component to anavoidant?
(22:41):
They don't trust anyone butthemselves, so that causes them
stress and pain.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I was also reading about more likely to have
addictive personalities.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Drink alcohol, take drugs, that kind of.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
They are addicts.
They're addicted to dopaminebecause dopamine you can only
produce it for short stints andthen you have to move on from
somebody to start producing thatagain.
Because when you're withsomebody for an extended period
of time, you switch from beinghappy with them to being in love
with them.
The problem is you no longerproduce dopamine anymore.
(23:17):
When you're in love, youproduce oxytocin.
Well, they don't receiveoxytocin correctly.
So now they feel something iswrong.
And their natural instinctbecause they trust themselves
and nobody else is to blametheir partner.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
We're blaming it on the hormones.
Is that what we're doing?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Not exactly.
It's the way they producehormones and the way they
process them.
I don't want to get tooscientific here, but yes, part
of it is hormonal and becausethey're not producing and
processing hormones correctly,it causes health issues for them
Heart attacks.
(23:52):
Whenever your cortisol levelsgo high, that's your stress
hormone.
You're going to have highstress.
What does stress do to yourbody?
Not good things, Very badthings.
For men, it usually attacksyour heart.
For women, it attacks yourbrain.
So it's two different thingsthat are going on there.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So the topic we're talking about today, which feels
a bit warm and fuzzy, it'sreally not about the warm and
fuzzy.
It it's about the core, basicthing that we need to look at
what's going on in our lives,whether we have partners or not,
our friends and family, howwe're talking to them, how we're
reacting to them, like whereare we fitting and how can we
change that.
And you're never too old.
You could be 18 years old andchange your relationship with
(24:35):
somebody based on this and havea better self-awareness about
yourself.
And you could be 18 years oldand change your relationship
with somebody based on this andhave a better self-awareness
about yourself.
And you could be a hundredyears old and maybe add, you
know, a couple of years to yourlife.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
You really can.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah, and when?
When you're in your thirties orforties, why would you want to
live your life this way?
I have a friend right nowactually, that um clearly is
with an avoidant and he heslammed something and, you know,
pounded down and she's like Ithink we're at the end of our
rope and they're married.
And he saw her through adivorce.
It was all really wonderful andnice and lovely.
And now they're probably goingto get a divorce and I'm
(25:09):
thinking this guy won't even goto therapy.
Like where is he in hisself-awareness that he won't go
to therapy?
Why would you be in a marriageand put all that energy into any
kind of partnership?
If I were good friends with theperson next door, am I just
going to toss it aside and letit go because there's some kind
of conflict that's come up, oram I going to take time and work
(25:31):
on it?
But isn't that the matureself-awareness piece?
I've got my issues.
I've never been the perfectpartner, I know I've got all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Guilty as charged.
None of us are perfect.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I've definitely.
I'm sure I've got some of theanxious in there.
I've got things going on thatcame from there.
But I'm very self-aware and I'malways willing to work on it
and I always want to understandmore.
And I know that if I got to apoint in my relationship any
kind of relationship, butparticularly the person that I
love and care about I would sitdown and go to therapy like that
(26:04):
is black and white for me.
Why, Okay, I can hear some ofthe guys go oh, I don't want a
therapist telling me what to do.
I know what's wrong in thisrelationship, but why would you
not turn that stone and spend asecond, you know, or an hour out
of your life once a week for 12weeks to figure that out?
Why won't you do that beforeyou get married, by the way?
Go and see your pastor or go totherapy.
(26:26):
Go through a course, you know.
If you're faithful, go see yourpastor.
They often run courses for this.
But go find out that stuff Likewho are you?
Are you anxious?
What's your tendencies?
Do go find out that stuff likewho are you?
Are you anxious?
What's your tendencies?
Do you want a family?
Do you have any, you know?
Do you smoke?
What do you caulk?
Do you like to go out?
Do you like to stay in?
Find out about people beforeyou get in it and, if you're in
(26:46):
it, spend some time figuring outwhat's going wrong before you
just throw in the towel yes, andthen people need to learn how
to be more open and honest witheach other.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I think the key problem that we're having in
today's society is a lack ofcommunication.
That's why relationships arefailing.
We've become a community or agroup of people who are about
instant gratification.
Right when I was a kid, we hadto go to the public library to
get information.
My kids today sit behind thecomputer and go to Mr Google and
(27:16):
in a matter of moments they cangather a bunch of information.
It doesn't mean it's accurate,but they can be instantly
gratified and receive what theywant.
So I think social media hasplayed a huge role in this,
because now people are trying tocompete with each other.
We're in competition with eachother at a higher level than
we've ever been before.
We don't have a sense ofcommunity the way we used to.
(27:37):
When I was a kid growing up inthe 80s, we ran around in the
streets and played stickball andI was never home.
Today's kids are home behindthe video game.
They're playing with theirphones.
Go to a high school.
You watch them all walkingaround.
You're wondering how they don'tbump into each other because
they're all staring in theirphone.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The kids are actually bumping into things.
They don't have this magicability to correct lampposts or
anything and they are havingmore accidents.
But I'm right with you, I don'tunderstand it at all, and I'm
sure that's part of this,because I was out on my bike.
You know biking through thewoods and finding the old quarry
with water in it, and you knowwe built a rope and we swung out
across the water with the rustyold cars in it, like things
you'd never be allowed to dotoday.
(28:18):
I had a ball every day and Igot home when it was going dark,
but I was always a bit late,you know.
As you can imagine, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
They're always calling me to get me off the
street.
Come in here now.
We gotta eat dinner right?
Today's kids that's not thatway and we don't have the sense
of community the way we did.
Back then I I mean my friend'smother's had permission to
correct me if they needed to.
If somebody else's parent didthat, the parent of the child
would get very upset.
Why are you correcting my child?
That's my child.
(28:46):
We just don't have that sense ofcommunity anymore, and that's
part of what's causing a lot ofthe issues going on in today's
society.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
They call cops or they'd send uncle, depending on
what part of the country youlive in.
Send Uncle Bob around to clockyour new one.
All right, let's move on toanxious, preoccupied.
What do they say?
Characteristics are they fearabandonment and think about
someone in your life.
Does this fit with that?
Overanalyzes.
(29:13):
Interactions can be clingy orpossessive, and they say things
like why didn't you text me back?
Are you mad at me?
Or I feel like I love you morethan you love me?
If you leave, I don't know whatI'll do.
I can't be alone.
Red flags.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
So those partners or their partners often feel
smothered and can never giveenough assurance, have
experienced this and they'llunderstand it now why that was
occurring.
Um, and it's a both are toughlives to lead.
Um, but somebody with ananxious preoccupied you're
you're going to have tounderstand.
They're going to require yourattention on a more regular
basis, or with an avoidant.
(30:08):
They like space.
They they more than anybody,like to have the space.
They prefer to have what wecall a situation ship where
they're not really fully intothe relationship.
They're obtaining the couple ofthings that they want from that
relationship and then go off onyour own.
I don't need you right now.
The anxious preoccupied is justthe opposite.
They're going to want you bytheir side all the time and
(30:29):
anytime they feel stressed,they're going to pull you closer
and that can interfere inpeople's businesses, things of
that nature.
It can become a distraction.
So you have to be aware of whoyour partner is and then help
them self-regulate.
That's one of the challengesfor an anxious.
They don't know how toself-regulate.
Think of a secure.
They don't know how toself-regulate.
(30:49):
They also understand that theyneed to support their partner's
emotions and avoiding is thebest there is.
All they know how to do isauto-regulate.
They can only regulate on theirown.
As soon as there's a challenge,they push you away and they go
try to regulate the problem.
If you try to become a littleclingy, they'll run even faster.
They feel you their partner.
(31:10):
Go fix yourself.
I'm not helping you.
The anxious, preoccupied isjust the opposite.
I need your help to fix myself.
I don't trust myself to fixmyself.
Do I need you to do it for me?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
and that is the really loved me, you'll love
that one too, if you reallyloved me, xyz.
And sometimes it's said in jest, but it's not really in jest,
and I'm sure there's, there's, Imean there's learnings from
both sides, right?
So if the avoidant can, can, um, you know, meet, not halfway
obviously, but even learn somephrases and way to communicate
(31:44):
and way to speak to the personwho's anxious to not necessarily
just to continually reassurethem, but to speak to them in a
different way.
Maybe they won't be so clingyand anxious and won't drive you
nuts, right?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
and it's one of the reasons why avoidance and
anxious are attracted to eachother.
Avoidance want to control therelationship.
They want to control the paceof everything.
That's where avoidance can looklike a narcissist, but they're
not.
They're doing it for differentreasons.
A narcissist wants to controlyou, their partner, and
avoidance is controllingthemselves and the environment
(32:17):
in which their relationship is.
So there's a lot ofsimilarities in their actions.
Where you perceive them asbeing a narcissist, they're not.
An anxious is just the opposite.
They're always requiringsomebody else to validate them
and somebody else to supportthem, and they're not capable of
supporting themselves.
The disorganized gets reallycrazy because you don't know
which one you're dealing with.
(32:38):
I call them, dr Jekyll and MrHyde.
That's where it gets reallyscary because as their partner,
you get very confused.
What am I supposed to do?
I want to help you, but I don'tknow what to do Because when I
do this, you go that way.
When I do that, you go theother way.
So I'm always trying to figureout when I'm dealing with a
fearful avoidant or disorganized, what am I supposed to be doing
(32:59):
?
And that can become very taxingon somebody.
You're walking on eggshells.
When, anytime, somebody hasavoidant tendencies, you have to
plan on the fact that you'regoing to be walking on eggshells
.
Going back to a dismissiveavoidant and directly how it
applies to real estate, let mebe very clear you cannot rely on
a dismissive avoidant.
Directly how it applies to realestate.
Let me be very clear you cannotrely on a dismissive avoidant
(33:19):
for anything.
They're not going to be therewhen you want them to be.
They're not capable of itbecause they don't trust you,
even though they're in arelationship, and as soon as
there's a problem or a challenge, they're going to disengage and
they're going to go fixthemselves and they feel you
need to go fix yourself.
And that's where it gets reallychallenging.
Specifically to real estate.
I'm married to an avoidant andshe triggers.
(33:41):
She's going to file for divorceand now I've got to now sell
real estate.
So that's one of the challengeswe're going to talk about today
.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
And in the transaction as well.
Oh my gosh.
So let's move on to the nextone, the dismissive avoidant.
This is the person that avoidsdeep emotional bonds and
characteristics of valueindependence Exactly what you
were just saying over emotionalintimacy, emotion, distant,
avoids deep conversations, andthey say things like I don't do
(34:10):
drama.
Relationships shouldn't be thiscomplicated.
I don't really believe inneeding a partner to be happy.
I'm just not the type to say Ilove you.
It doesn't mean I don't care.
And the red flag they avoidcommitment and they push people
away emotionally.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
That's correct.
And now think about that, howthat could apply to your life.
You're in a relationship withsomebody that you're guaranteed
you cannot rely on, and that isa challenge, and there are ways
to pull the avoidant into, butthey have to be willing to do
the lifting.
You and I have talked aboutthis from a leadership
perspective you can only bring ahorse to water.
(34:49):
You can't make it drink, andthat's one of the challenges
with dismissive avoidance is thetitle says everything.
They dismiss you and they avoid.
Those are their two main traits, and so I don't like labels.
That's why I call them DAs andFAs.
I'm not a big fan of labelingpeople, um, but that is exactly
(35:09):
what they do.
They'll dismiss you from at anygiven moment and they will
avoid any challenges that takeplace.
And what's interesting aboutthem is the entire time when
they trigger, they do notcommunicate the fact that
they're having ill feelings.
They continue to love bomb onyou so, as their partner, you're
not even aware that they'rehaving ill feelings.
They continue to love bomb onyou so, as their partner, you're
not even aware that they'rehaving a problem.
And then one day they'll wakeup and they literally erase you
(35:31):
and you'll wake up.
They're gone.
They've now blocked you on allsocial media channels.
They blocked you on the cellphone.
You can't communicate with themin any fashion and you have
absolutely no clue why, andthey're known for that.
That is one of their key traits.
What's interesting about thedismissive avoidance is they
have a what we call therelationship death wheel.
They do the same cycle over andover.
(35:51):
That's why you have, that's whythey have so many relationships
.
They just keep repeating thesame cycle over and over again.
Phase seven and eight of theircycle is when they go into their
reminiscence stage and theirnostalgia stage.
So stage six they six.
They've left you.
They're now excited, they'reexuberant about it, they're
happy they've left you.
I have my independence back.
That usually lasts betweenthree and four months.
(36:14):
The reason they're able to dothat is they're the kings of
suppressing their emotions.
You can only suppress youremotions for so long.
At some point those emotionsare going to come to the surface
.
When they do it, it hits themlike a ton of bricks.
And now they become very sad.
They start feeling guilt.
They start realizing wait aminute, my partner wasn't that
(36:35):
bad.
Maybe it was me, and that's why, 40% of the time an avoidant
will attempt to return to therelationship or at least
establish communication with you.
But there has to be a period ofno contact.
They need to understand.
The only time that'll happen iswhen they truly believe you've
moved on and possibly evenstarted another relationship,
(36:57):
and then they'll try to reachout to you and contact you,
thinking there might be anopportunity to have a
conversation.
And more often than not thatperson's already moved on and
now they're in anotherrelationship, and why they don't
get to reenter thatrelationship again.
So they go through a verymaddening cycle.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Something's going through my head right now and
I'm wondering for gentlemen outthere whether you're feeling the
same thing or whether it's agirl thing, because I'm thinking
as you're talking about thesedifferent characters, I see
people that I've dated or beenmarried to in all of them like,
oh my gosh, it's so clear asyou're talking through it and
(37:32):
we're saying the statements andyou're really rounding that out.
Chris, thank you so much.
I'm wondering is a guy sittingout there listening today
feeling the same way?
Or do guys just not care andthey're like, whatever you know,
get on with it, let's go oh noguys care.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Everybody has an attachment style.
Now, typically men areavoidance.
In the past were the largergroup of the avoidance Anxious
were women.
The fearful avoidant were alsowomen.
They had 30% that were avoidantand 5% fearful and 25% anxious.
We've seen a large increase indismissive, avoidant women.
(38:10):
That's in the last 10 to 15years.
I didn't know that is.
We're passing.
This is why I do it.
People ask me the big why, whyI'm having these conversations.
We are screwing up our children.
We're passing our attachmentstyles on to our children.
Remember that snowball goingdown the hill and getting larger
.
It's coming and we're passingour attachment styles onto their
(38:31):
children.
So if you have an avoidant malein a relationship and there's
not a good connection with themother and they don't have a
good connection with the father,there's a higher probability
that that child will become anavoidant.
If there's an anxious withinthat family and again, there's
not a good emotional connection,that first five years, there's
(38:51):
a higher probability thatchild's going to become an
anxious.
I'm talking to a woman rightnow that has two children and
she's realized that she's anavoidant and she's getting very
concerned because her kids are10 and 14 years old.
Do my children have a brokenattachment style Because I've
identified as a dismissiveavoidant and I realize I have
(39:13):
challenges and now I'm learningI might be passing them on to
them and there are things youcan do to help prevent it.
But ultimately, if they do forma broken attachment, it's going
to have to be repaired within arelationship.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Let's move on to the fearful avoidance.
So hot and cold behavior anddeep trust issues, emotional
unpredictability.
I'm telling you I'm never, everdating again and the statement
is I want to be with you, butsometimes I just need to
disappear for a while.
I love you but I don't know ifI can trust you.
People always let me down.
(39:48):
I'm scared that if I let you in, you'll hurt me too.
And the red flag is thepush-pull dynamic and
self-sabotaging of relationships.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yes, anybody with avoidant tendencies.
The DA or the FA areself-sabotagers and the fearful
avoidant has avoidancy in themand they have the push-pull.
They're the most confusing.
As I said, dr Jekyll and MrHyde, you just don't know which
one you're going to get and whenthey're in their anxious stage,
(40:19):
they'll try to pull you closer,become clingy.
You respond to that as theirpartner.
You want to give them what theyneed.
You're a loving partner.
Once you start giving to thatto them, now the avoidancy kicks
in and now they start pushingyou away.
So you turn around and, okay,I'll give you your space.
So the moment you give thisspace, no, no, no, come back
here.
Then you come back and you'realways in that push-pull
(40:39):
environment and a very confusingenvironment to be in.
So and it can affect a lot ofdecisions that you make.
Again, tying into ourconversation of real estate,
when you're in a relationshipwith somebody like that, you
have to count on the fact thatyou cannot rely on them.
So when you're making adecision on buying real estate,
you have to prepare.
They're probably going to leavespecifically anyone with
(41:03):
avoidant tendencies in them.
The anxious, pure anxious.
They're going to try to stay atall costs.
Anxious don't usually run away.
Just the opposite, they getvery clingy.
So it's a different mindsetwhen you're buying real estate
with somebody like that.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I think I'm secure with tendencies and I think I
started off this conversationtoday with anxious tendencies.
Now I think I've got avoidanttendencies just by the time on.
And can you believe we've onlygot 12 minutes left.
I never know where these hoursgo on a Saturday morning.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I want to scoot right downbecause we've only got 12
(41:37):
minutes left.
Obviously, we can see how thestats are shocking.
What's going on in the world isshocking.
The amount of divorce in theworld is shocking.
The amount of divorce in theworld is shocking.
I had somebody yesterdaytalking about we're in a meeting
together and he was saying oh,I don't know, you know, I've got
this Indian friend who is in anarranged marriage and after all
these years she's finallythinking that she loves the guy.
(42:00):
And I don't know how they dothese arranged marriages.
And I'm like what do you thinkwe do?
You know, first of all wearrange our marriages ourselves
and usually we don't put a wholelot of thought or time into
what we're doing.
And sometimes I mean I knowsomebody who just a couple of
years ago got married, I don'tknow, four weeks after meeting
someone.
Good Lord, we're settingourselves up.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
The funny part about that is arranged marriages have
a higher success rate thanunarranged marriages, and
usually that's because theparties entering into an
arranged marriage aretraditionalists and they
continue the traditions.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
When the parties care right.
So the families know each otherand usually the families are
going to care about the children, so they're matchmaking, caring
about their children.
So it's you know some of it.
I'm not listen.
I'm not arguing for arrangedmarriages here.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
It's funny you say that, though, shame plays a big
role in that, shame will causepeople to stay in marriages and,
statistically, if you haveproblems in your marriage and
you stay together for five yearsduring those problems, you'll
stay together for the rest ofyour life.
That's why I say there's onlyfour or five key reasons why
people should even consider adivorce.
Physical abuse, drug abuse,alcoholism, things of that
(43:13):
nature Okay, we get it.
Somebody's infidelity, they'recheating on you.
Again, those are personaldecisions.
Do I stay or don't?
I understand why people wouldexit a marriage because of that,
but if you're leaving amarriage over transactional
stuff, you probably should lookin the mirror and think twice
about that, because you'rehurting your partner, you're
hurting your children and,ultimately, you're hurting
(43:34):
yourself.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Gosh, I'm getting chills as you're talking.
Honestly, you're literallymaking the hair stand up on my
neck.
I was listening to a MalRobbins podcast yesterday and it
was an attorney who'd written abook and was talking about
conversational styles.
Obviously, you know he's goinginto legislate and it was so
interesting and he was talkingabout these key phrases and one
of them that I thought was sointeresting is just learning the
(43:57):
phrase.
First of all, to sit and listenand not come back and be
defensive.
Right, that's never any good,but the phrase was I could have
done better Because itimmediately, just, you know,
dissolves that heat of themoment, takes a pause and allows
you to have a conversation.
I really liked it.
I like gathering those because,especially as you're becoming
more self-aware and you'reworking on yourself, for me,
(44:21):
maybe I'm just that type ofperson having a few key things
that I remember to say in themoment when my waveform and
brain is going, you know I'mready to fight back, like having
something key to say.
And you know, doing the three,four, five, where you breathe in
for three and hold for four andbreathe out for five, like
those little techniques can beso helpful.
(44:43):
I want to get some stats here.
So loneliness in younger andolder generations.
We've touched on this in theshows before the stats are.
We've touched on this today,but I wanted to hear these stats
guys.
40% of people aged between 16and 24 report feeling lonely.
We've talked about it.
What's happening to families?
Old, older adults?
(45:03):
One in three, and that's lessthan the young adults.
How crazy is that?
One in three between 50 and 80reported feeling isolated in the
past year.
I want to scoot over Chris,just because of our lack of time
here.
I knew we'd do this because wehave so much fun talking to each
other.
In case I didn't say so at thetop, I've known Chris for over a
(45:26):
decade and he's just one of thebest people to speak to.
Lucky Matt Chris.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Blow up his phone.
No, I'm just kidding, but he isavailable for coaching on this
as well as doing amazing realestate in Naples, florida, let's
talk about in the last fewminutes.
We have how to break the cycle.
You know, identifying yourstyle, obviously becoming aware
We've got couples how tonavigate buying and selling a
home with emotional turmoil.
(45:52):
You can do this all in fiveminutes, right For singles.
How to make those confidentreal estate decisions without
that fear-based thinking andjust generally, maybe we throw
real estate out for a minute.
You know, how do you?
How'd you get better, chris?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
um, you have to do it within relationship.
And then, as I say a a you haveto have awareness.
Okay, I'm an avoidant, I'm ananxious, I'm aware of it.
Now you also have to takeaction.
As I say, awareness withoutaction is useless.
Okay, so you're Now what youhave to take action.
And those actions look likeleaning into it.
(46:28):
Again, the avoidant doesn'ttrust anybody.
They have to learn how to trusttheir partner.
They have to build a littleconfidence With an avoidant,
though it's actually physicallypainful for them to do so.
They built such a copingmechanism that if they try to
violate that coping mechanism,it'll actually cause physical
pain for them.
But they have to go throughthat process.
(46:51):
They can transition from anavoidant to a secure in a matter
of three to six months just bylearning how to trust their
partner openly and honestlycommunicating.
One of the first things I tellan avoidant when something is
bothering you, you have 24 hoursto communicate that to your
partner.
Because one of the challengesthat avoidants have is they
stuff.
They're stuffers.
They take these little bricks.
You did this wrong.
They put it in theirsubconscious.
(47:12):
Over time they build a wall.
Once that wall is built, theytrigger and they disengage from
the relationship.
That's where that erasing takesplace.
The whole time the partnerdoesn't know any of this is
coming because they're lovebombing during the process.
The anxious does the same thing, but just the opposite.
They don't trust themselves.
I think the anxious have aneasier path to security than an
(47:34):
avoidant does, because theanxious only has to learn how to
trust one person themselves.
They already trust everyoneelse.
That's who they're looking forvalidation.
The avoidant, I think, has alittle bit harder path, because
they don't trust anyone butthemselves and now they have to
learn how to trust others, andthat includes their children,
their mothers, their fathers,their deep relationships,
(47:54):
because that's the only placethese things show up is in your
deep relationships.
All of them are good atmaintaining friendships because
they're getting dopamine fromthose friendships and they don't
have to commit to them.
They can't run and walk away atany point in time, so your
insecure attachment styles dovery well in friendships.
That's why their friends getconfused when they have so many
(48:15):
relationship problems.
Wow, you're a really niceperson.
I don't know why this keepshappening, and where the problem
is is the commitment standpoint.
When you fall in love withsomebody, you're now committing
to them and avoiding inparticular.
That is their biggest fear I'mgoing to give up my independence
and anxious.
Their biggest fear is you'regoing to abandon me.
Oh no, I have to commit to thisperson.
(48:36):
You're going to abandon me.
I already know that Meanwhile.
That's not true, and not in mostcases.
If they actually told theirpartner what was going on inside
their head, they would probablycome to a resolution and that
partner would support thememotionally.
But if you're not aware thatyour partner is going through
that, how can you help them?
And that's where that open andhonest communication comes into
(48:56):
play.
You asked about single peopleand buying real estate.
I would encourage single peopleto buy real estate all the time
.
You're not going to triggerwhile you're alone and can go
out and buy an asset.
Um, and feel good about that.
Now, if you're dating somebodythat's a, an avoidant or an
anxious and insecure style, justbe aware at that point not to
(49:18):
put them on the title for awhile and make sure that the
relationship is going to last.
Um, specifically with anavoidant, because they're going
to trigger usually within 24months.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
The two-year spot, it seems like, and they just
repeat.
I'm wondering.
I mean I don't want to make allavoidance men.
We know a few more of avoidancein male than female.
But are those the kinds that goto the bar every night and say
I'll be home by seven o'clock?
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Avoidance is some of the hardest work, is they get it
.
They have an addiction issue,as I say, and they get addicted
to work.
Um, they do like to go out andparty a little bit like any, any
of the attachment styles, um,with friends, things of that
nature, but no, they're notusually trying to date within
bars I didn't mean in terms ofcheating or dating.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I meant in terms of getting that hit from their
friends who they're not reallycommitted to.
All their best friends are atthe bar.
It's like a cheers bar but theydon't have those deep
friendships.
They don't go out to dinner,they don't go on vacation with
them, but they're these core,key friends at the bar that they
visit on a regular basis, thatthey're getting that hit from
and then they're going home.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
Yeah, and usually the avoidant won't stay long.
They come in, they get theirdopamine, they'll stay for a
little while and then get up andleave, because one of the ways
to identify an avoidant isthey'll pronounce their
independence.
Anyone that walks around sayingall the time that they're
independent be very cautious of,because there's a high
probability they're going tohave avoidant tendencies.
Another way to identify them,if you're dating them, is try to
(50:44):
find out how they handleconflict resolution.
How do you handle problemswithin your relationship?
If they say something likestuff things and shut down and
then encode?
You're dating an avoidant.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
They don't tell me that, chris.
We know they do.
Oh yeah, they do actuallyReally.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yeah, I dated an avoidant by month four.
I knew she was a dismissiveavoidant.
I put her basically through.
I asked her about 20 of theassessment questions.
That's one of the great partabout the assessment questions.
They can be multiple choice orthey can be singular um.
So you can do it verbally andyou know you've been through the
process of learning the discand different behavioral
(51:20):
profiles.
You and I don't determinesomebody else's profile.
They do by what they say andwhat they do um.
So all you have to be able todo is be able to slide the
questions, and that's a greatpart about attachment theory.
You can actually slide thequestions in basically the week
you're starting to date andwithin a short period of time
you'll have a good idea of who'ssitting across the table from
(51:41):
you very, very true.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
thank you so much today, Chris.
That was amazing.
Chris is actually going to bespotlighted on our real estate
app called Listing Royalty, ofcourse, and we have a whole
course and a download and we'vegot a wonderful thing that
you'll be able to download onthere.
Download on there so you canhit either of us up, obviously,
(52:05):
listening on the radio to me,hit me up on Facebook you're
friends with me all over theplace Rowena Patton or just give
a call.
828.
We've got people on the phones24-7,.
828-333-4483.
You've got it.
You know how to get hold of me.
It's awesome.
We'll send you the link to theentire course and the downloads
(52:25):
so you can figure out what thatperson is in your life.
But, Chris, what happens if weend up causing some divorces?
They've been happy for 20 yearsand now they're like well,
guess what I found out?
You're.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
I think they know two really good real estate agents,
so I'd be happy to help themwith their issues and sell their
assets for them.
I don't wish anyone demise, butif those things occur, divorce
is a fact of life and we're hereto help them.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
We love you all and thank you for listening.
This is Rowena Patton on theReal Estate News Radio Show.
Tell your friends to go torealestatenewsradiocom.
That's realestatenewsradiocom.
There's a link to listen liveand also to download this
episode and all of the others,or you can give us a call,
(53:14):
828-333-4483.
We've got people standing by24-7.
They'll take a message if it'sthe middle of the night.
Thank you to Chris Evanson, ourwonderful guest today, and
we'll see you on the radio nextweek.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
This has been the Plain English Real Estate Show
with Rowena Patton.
Visit Rowena and post yourquestions at radioashvillecom or
call her at 828-210-1648.
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