Diving Deep into the Complexities of Property Ownership and Laws / Episode 33

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So let's go back to what you think realtors do Like
for real, not a lot, bro.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
No, no, no, I know Listen because I know there's
this undertone.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Let me tell you what they do.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I know there's this undertone between the attorneys.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yeah, exactly See, that's what it is.
That's exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
There's some bitterness there 100%.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I went to college Listen how long?
100%, that's exactly whathappened.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Wait a second this guy made 30 grand on this
transaction.
On the next installment of theshow, Jesus will tell us why law
school is a waste of money.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
All right, guys.
I always ask and I am sorry, Ishould know what episode are we
in right now?
33.
Larry Bird, baby Larry Bird.
So I want to start off bythanking you for finally posting
his book.
I greatly appreciate that,finally.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I mean yeah, nick Pasley, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
So we have a couple interesting topics.
First and foremost, I want tothank everybody who's been
commenting.
You guys have been giving us alot of I don't know joy in our
hearts Joy, laughter.
Laughter.
We love the negative ones, sokeep those coming.
The positive ones we justglance over.
We really like to focus on thenegative ones, so let's continue

(01:26):
.
Let's continue to do that, soit's like mean tweets.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, jimmy Kimmel, mean tweets.
Those are the best.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
If they would know how happy we get whenever we see
one of those, they probablywouldn't send them anymore.
I see them coming in.
I'm like I'm going to save thisone for later.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm sitting now Assaulted in broken English.
That's amazing With bad grammar.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Today you were called the captain obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Captain obvious?
No, no, no, yeah, captainobvious.
Captain of the obvious Of theobvious, yeah, it's Mr Captain
Nice to see you, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, Listen.
So what's the topic today?
I know we had one thing that'sbeen kind of been brought up a
lot, especially here in Florida.
So what is it that?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
What's?
Just because it's just aFlorida law.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
That usually happens.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
People in Georgia are not that concerned about a
Florida law, so what is it?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Let's start with that , it's like a nationwide
conspiracy that has just beenmanifested itself in legislation
in Florida.
Or it's just really a Floridathing.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
It is so well the other states are actually now
moving to enact similar statutes.
But I think we have thedistinction of being the first
and it's the what do they callit?
The Conveyances to ForeignEntities Act.
Conveyances to Foreign EntitiesAct, and it's codified at

(02:50):
Florida Statutes section 692.201through 692.205.
And it's a hot topic right now.
Went into effect July 1, 2023.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
So what do I tell my agent?
That is Chinese and Venezuelanand she's calling me a frantic.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
She that she should move to Mars.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Get out of Florida.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, maybe Earth.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
On Mars they still don't have any.
Yeah, they're not more equalopportunity, Right.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Equal opportunity.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
In fact, they're looking at they.
I read the other day.
It only needs, they only need13 people to start an effective
colony on Mars.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh, really.
So yeah, but that would have tosend at least 130 over there,
because most of them are goingto die on the way.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
I think that's making some assumptions about the 13
people.
Maybe we're not that leaping.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
I agree, but yeah, the Conveyances to Foreign
Entities Act.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
So it's just, you know, it's got two main
components, right.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
The foreign entity or foreign principle part, and
then the affected properties,and you know, putting it simply,
it just goes as follows thereare certain countries of concern
that they've.
We've identified in Floridawhere we don't want foreign
principles, as defined in thestatute, from those countries of
concern to be able to buy.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
But how do Venezuelan make it on that shit list?
Because I mean, what's the lasttime we got a?
Well, we got attacked you know,in any kind of way by a
Venezuelan.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
No, it's just that Venezuela is like.
I think it's a communisthostile government hostile
government and it's very wealthy.
It's got a lot of petroleum, sothey're left leaning.
Propensities really annoy ushere.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, but I mean they've never really.
I mean the Chinese.
Every once in a while you get acyber attack, you get.
You know they're there, they've.
There's no secret that they areconstantly, for many, many
years, trying to attack us andfind any kind of opening right.
What's the last time aVenezuelan did anything to you?
Know?
It's weird.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's, it's the what appears to be some sort of
collaboration that existsbetween them and other hostile
players.
I mean, there's definitely beenmore of a close ending of the
relationship between China andVenezuela recently, and so if
you're going to take and put, Imean I would think if you're
going to put China on that list,venezuela has to do that and
considering the presence thatVenezuela has as far as

(05:11):
population, there's a lot ofpeople from Venezuela in this
country who largely hate thegovernment of Venezuela.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah right, Aside from fucking up the traffic here
in Dorel, I don't think theythey've really done anything
negative.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Although I think that could be considered an act of
terrorism, considering how badthe traffic is.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's why.
That's why they did it.
Then I'm all in.
But you know, richard broughtup, so I hate when Richard's
right.
But you know, every once in awhile he'll, he'll get something
right cross.
The.
You know because, because yousaid no, it's, it's.
You said it right off thebeginning that it's not going to
, it's not going to last it's,it's.
It's consideredunconstitutional.

(05:47):
It'll be consideredunconstitutional, right.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you know what I may be wrong, though I mean.
I first of all, almostimmediately upon the laws
passage, there were alreadygroups that were going to come
out against it.
Lawsuits have been filed,there's a case pending in
federal court and last week, orI think it was the week before
now, so the the the plaintiffsin the case, they asked the
judge to enter an injunction.
Right, a temporary injunction,for if you're watching at home,

(06:11):
that just means like a pause.
So if we're litigating aboutthe constitutionality of a
particular statute and you movefor a temporary injunction,
you're asking the court toprevent the implementation of
the law while we fight about it.
So the law was went into effectJuly 1 and you go into court
and you're saying judge, I knowthe law has been passed, I know
it's in effect, but we'd likeyou to join implementation of

(06:34):
the statute while we litigate it.
Okay, now, in most cases when atemporary injunction is granted
, that's a good indication, adecent indication, that the
lawsuit has traction.
Okay, that the lawsuit has legs, because judges are reluctant
to grant temporary injunctionsif they don't think the lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Why waste any time on it if?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
right.
So so a couple of weeks ago,the federal judge in the case
denied the plaintiffs requestfor a temporary injunction.
In other words, the law is ineffect and it needs to be
implemented.
Okay, so it's the law of thestate at present.
And so that puts closing agents, realtors, people in this

(07:16):
business, in the position ofnumber one.
They have some obligation howit's questionable how much to be
able to identify that, hey,this is a situation in which the
statute is going to apply.
And then there's a form ofaffidavit which actually the
statute puts it on the Floridareal estate commission to create
the affidavit that wouldimplement the rule.
It's basically an affidavitthat's going to say, hey, I'm

(07:37):
the buyer and I'm not a foreignprincipal as defined in the act,
or if, if I am a foreignprincipal, here's why the act
doesn't apply.
Okay, and so that's a one pager, it's a form affidavit and it's
got to be signed in everysingle real estate transaction
in Florida.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's fine though.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
So you know, there's already a form of affidavit out
there.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
It's been circulating and we've been using it since
July one, you know so I'mcurious what are the exceptions
that would allow somebody fromone of these countries to buy?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
So there's a couple exceptions.
Number one being from thecountry in and of itself is not
enough, right?
So you have to be, you have tobe from the country of concern
and you have to be domiciled inthe country of concern.
Okay.
And domiciled is a term of art.
We don't just mean you hang outthere from time to time or you
hang out here.
You have to live in Venezuela,for example, russia, china,

(08:28):
north Korea, iran, you knowthere's six, there's six
countries of concern.
So you have to be from thereand you have to be domiciled
there.
Okay, so you're a true foreignnational in the United States If
you have a lawful permanentresidency, okay.
Or if you're a citizen in theUnited States, obviously you
could be born in Venezuela, butif you're a United States

(08:49):
citizen, the statute would notapply.
You could be born in Venezuela,you can be a citizen of
Venezuela, but if you have apermanent, lawful permanent
residency in the United States,the law does not apply.
Okay, if you're here on anykind of temporary visa or things
like that, the law does apply,right, if you're domiciled there
.
Now, let's say you're fromVenezuela.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
If you put it like that, though it's and I know
you're against it in many waysright.
But if you start adding thosefilters to it and adding those
filters if you're not, this, ifyou're not it starts to make
sense.
Anybody who's from that countrythat does not fit any of those
characteristics should be kindof looked at a little bit in
depth, you know, and should berestricted in some kind of way.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
So it's not accurate to say that I disagree with it.
What happens is, in law school,they teach us about what they
call the bundle of rights withrespect to property.
Okay, and it ended up.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
I see it more as a restriction on the right of
Americans to do what they wantwith their property and that's
what you told me and that's whatkind of made sense to me,
because when I initially toldyou about it, I'm like you said
it's unconstitutional.
I'm like what the fuck do wecare about the Constitution for
somebody who's from anothercountry?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Right.
And then.
And then you said well, it'sreally towards the sellers right
to be able to sell to whoeverthe hell they want, Right.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
That?
That does make sense, right.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Now I'm not sure that that's been raised.
Actually, I haven't read thepleadings in the federal case
and the plaintiffs are not.
I'm not, I'm not sure, I saidbecause I haven't read the
pleadings, but I don't think theplaintiffs are like US citizens
that are traveling under thattheory.
I would.
I think that would be aninteresting theory under which
to to have the statutescrutinized.
So yeah, I mean, my biggerissue with it is the restriction

(10:35):
on sale.
Now, quite frankly, sometimesthere are countervailing or, or
you know, prevailing concernsabout why we might want to do it
.
So I think the agricultural youknow the restriction on
agricultural land makes a littlebit more sense.
And definitely, you know on onthe critical infrastructure, the
problem is that the way thestatute defines critical

(10:56):
infrastructure, I mean it's alot so and we didn't discuss
that part.
So you know the statute's gottwo parts.
Basically, are you a foreignprincipal has defined in the
statute and if you are, are youbuying affected property?
Right?
And affected property is eitheranything agricultural or any
property within 10 miles of whatthe statute defines as critical
infrastructure.

(11:17):
And the list of criticalinfrastructure I mean it's long,
it's.
I got my trusty cheat sheethere.
It's a chemical manufacturingfacility, a refinery, an
electrical power plant, a watertreatment facility or wastewater
treatment plant, a liquidnatural gas terminal, a
telecommunication centralswitching office, a gas

(11:37):
processing plant, a seaport, aspaceport or an airport.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
So in Miami well, let's talk about right here,
right now.
That's a lot, yeah, yeah, well,throw.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
McDonald's on there.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, pretty much it's about to go into the
valley.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly, Listen.
Within five miles of McDonald's, you're out of gas.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Listen, you're right here, we got central command.
So you know, nowhere in Dorel,nowhere in Dorel, we got.
We got a dump, we got watertreatment place, we got the
airport Mm.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Hmm, we have no, they put an extra command.
Desantis looked at the map andhe was like where do the
Venezuelans like?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Although you can't put it in your little bag, leave
them Western.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Weston might be there .

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Weston might be sufficiently remote.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
I don't know Sufficiently everglades enough.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, um, so you know .
So look, so the statute is, youknow the lawsuits going to
continue?
I don't, um, you know, thisisn't the type of case you.
You settle, right, you got toyou got to take the case of
trial and and or to throughsummary judgment.
Um, we'll see what happens, butI mean, I think it's actually
getting some traction and, likeI said, other states are now
looking to impose similarstatutes.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
So I mean it's not really unprecedented.
I mean there's there's there'slimitations in lots of other
countries as to who can buy inthe nationally 100%.
I mean Mexico you can't Anycoastal land period.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
One of our super, super, um motivated, politically
motivated friends was like well, you can't buy any Americans,
can't buy China.
And I was like the Chinesecan't buy in China.
Yeah, so I mean I get whereyou're coming from, it's not
it's not the best example but Ifollow Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I'll give a list of examples, since we're in the
lawsuit.
Since we're in the lawsuit, uh,uh, I guess subject right now
kind of like what's happeningwith that, um, that class action
lawsuit against realtors andtheir commission and stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Oh man, you know I'm worried about this one, richard,
I have.
Yeah, it's, it's uh it'sinteresting because that one is
gaining traction.
Yeah, it seems like, and it'ssurprising to me because it's
going to put, uh, put sellersand actually the secondary
market creates a real problemfor the secondary market because
of all the things we've talkedabout the secondary markets,
underwriting criteria.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So can we talk a little bit about specifically
wasn't heard about it what?
What is it exactly that they're, that they're claiming Um?

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Richard probably can explain this better but no, I
definitely I want to listen in.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Okay, I'll tell you what I do what I do know, um,
because this is, uh, one ofthose things that I paid
indirect attention to.
It's basically going there,they're trying to make it where
it's no longer required forlisting agents to secure a, uh,
co-broke Ridge commission fromthe seller when they list the

(14:15):
property.
So right now you have to, inorder to put a property in the
MLS, you have to offer aco-broke Ridge commission, Okay,
and that is a cost that'spassed along to the seller.
The lawsuit basically stateslike why should the seller have
to pay for briars, Uh, buyers tohave their agent?
And to me the obvious issuewinds up being that it balances

(14:36):
out when they buy.
It sort of does andtheoretically, the the appraised
value of a home is respectiveof the fact that there was a
commission that was paid.
So you know the price is 280,but obviously what the actual
seller received is less thanthat.
But the issue to me is ifyou're now going to say, hey,
look, you must list thisproperty in the MLS offering no

(14:58):
cope grow outgriage commission,and the lawsuit is basically
making that agents are notallowed to not show it even
though they're offering nocompensation.
It's going to force buyersagents to get buyer brokerage
relationship agreements signedand get their commission from
the buyer.
The problem is, the secondarymarket doesn't allow the Fannie
Mae, all the the folks that makethe loans, FHA as well.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
They're going to.
They're going to.
They're going to have to adjustto the market.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
It's going to, absolutely they have to change
because the buyer is not allowedto take and pay a commission
and had that be wrapped up inthe mortgage, so they'd have to
pay that out of cash.
What's the big issue withbuyers?
Always is they very limitedcash on the way in, so it's kind
of a size who's who's?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
who's the one leading that lawsuit?
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (15:42):
somebody that's got nothing better to do at their
time.
They're upset that as a listing, as a seller, they were forced
to pay the commission to thebuyer's agent, who they think
does a little guy like that,wakes up in the morning and
wants to just completely fuck upan end because there's nothing
beneficial.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
And I'm not saying it just because commission's going
to be paid.
We're just going to figure outanother way to get paid on it.
I mean, that's just.
You know.
I mean it.
It and banks are going to haveto adjust to it and everything.
So you're just adjusting awhole business.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
It generally hurts the consumer because now the
buyer's ability to make surethat they have representation is
going to be precluded or harmednot precluded but harmed by the
fact that now they have to payfor that out of cash.
It's no longer an amount thatcan be financed into the
purchase price of the property,cause if the seller pays the

(16:30):
commission that amount, thattotal amount is wrapped up in
that 96 and a half percentfinancing that they're going to
get from FHA right On the if thebuyer has to pay.
The buyer is going to put theirthree and a half percent down
and have to pay 10,000commission on top of that, or
whatever the number is, to thatagent.

(16:51):
There's some feeling that'llsomehow reduce buyer's
commissions.
I think what it actually doesis it harms the seller because
the seller is going to havefewer buyers available that can
afford to buy their home becausethey're not.
And I mean, if they leave it asan option to the seller and
agents are properly.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
So why are you saying it's getting legs?
Why you just why?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Because they're actually.
The judges are giving themthese injunctions.
The judges are agreeing todifferent things throughout.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Richard, have you seen anything on that or no?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Well, I mean the case is pending.
I mean I think the longer thecase remains pending, the more
problematic it is for the statusquo.
Right, because typically youknow in a lawsuit and it's you
know it's a misnomer, becauseeverybody now is on top of, like
, what happens in, you know, incases, right, for obvious
reasons.
But you know there's two waysthat that lawsuits go away.

(17:45):
Okay, the first is they go awaywith non-dispositive motions.
Okay, meaning motions thatdon't address the merits.
Okay.
So you hear it all the time.
I don't know why the newsreports on motions to dismiss.
Okay, so and so filed a motionto dismiss.
Okay, listen, only inexceptional circumstances are

(18:05):
those permanent.
Okay, tip, especially in civil.
In civil court, when you file amotion to dismiss, you're just
saying that there's somethingtechnically wrong with the other
side's complaint and if thecourt agrees, the case is
dismissed.
But it's usually dismissed withwhat we call leave to amend,
meaning the other side gets 20days, 30 days, whatever the
judge says, to just bring itback.

(18:26):
Okay, so a motion to dismiss incivil court does not test the
right or wrong of theallegations, it tests the
technicality.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay, so it's not the way the case was brought forth.
Right, it says hey, even if youso the attorney fucked up.
Almost I'm bringing it.
It's just the way theytechnically something like that.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
So the standard on a motion to dismiss in civil court
is literally judge takingeverything that the other side
says is as true in the fourcorners of the complaint.
There's no relief that can begranted to the other side and if
the judge agrees, then whathappens is you typically get one
, two, three, four, five, 10additional bites at the apple.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
To there's no limit.
Okay, there's no set limit.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
But usually the judge kind of what happens after a
little while.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
If the, if the pleadings become what's called
incapable of amendment, then youmight get a motion to dismiss
granted with prejudice.
With prejudice means forever,you cannot bring it back, okay.
But generally speaking, motionsto dismiss are without
prejudice, okay, and you canamend that.
You can amend multiple times.
So that's one way.

(19:31):
And, but sometimes though,admittedly, a case might get
dismissed and then the incentiveto bring it back goes away.
So the case isn't refiledbecause maybe there are a
settlement is entered orsomething like that, okay.
But the other way cases go awayis via an adjudication on the
merits, meaning a judge or ajury gets all the way through it
and decides who's right andwho's wrong, and then, on the

(19:52):
basis of who's right and who'swrong, the case goes away.
Now, you might have heard,everybody understands.
You know that there's somethingcalled a.
You know you have theconstitutional right to a trial
by jury, but, much like all Billof Rights, it's not unlimited,
so it's not in every case thatyou take to you get to go to
trial.
Okay, in fact, the the some,one side or the other can seek

(20:14):
to get rid of a case by what'scalled summary judgment.
Okay, and summary judgment isan adjudication on the merits
and it's a motion that getsfiled and the standard, the rule
there, is that somebody saysjudge, even if you take all the
evidence in the light mostfavorable to the other side, the
party not seeking summaryjudgment, even if you give them

(20:35):
every benefit of the doubt, noreasonable jury following the
law can find for them.
Therefore, we don't have to goto a jury trial.
Your honor can dispose of thecase right now.
Okay, and the summary judgmentmotion is a high standard, okay.
So in state court it's moredifficult to get summary
judgment than in federal court.
The state court judges are.

(20:56):
They don't like to be reversedand state court summary
judgments come back often.
Okay, appeal because we have apreference for a trial by jury,
but it's not a guaranteed right.
So the reason why I say that thelonger a case remains pending,
the more legs it generally has,is because and this is assuming
that the litigants aren't justsitting there like doing nothing
but if the case is beinglitigated heavily in the case

(21:18):
survives motions to dismiss,survives motions for summary
judgment that means now you'regoing to trial.
So if you file a motion forsummary judgment and the judge
denies the motion.
Now you have to have, you know,you have to look in the mirror,
you have to have a seriousconversation, because now you're
going to a trial where you know, depending on where you are
state or civil court, or stateor federal court you're going to
have six jurors, 12 jurors,regular people.

(21:40):
They don't know the law.
They're pissed off that theygot to be there.
Okay, they got to.
You know who's going to pick upTimmy.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
And they failed the intelligence test on actually
getting it getting to thegetting stricken.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah right, you know some people want to serve on
juries.
I mean they love it yeah man,they see it as like you know,
holy shit.
In fact there's even there's agreat movie on that Gene Hackman
movie about like these lawsuitsagainst big tobacco.
I forget the name runaway jurywas the name of the movie and
was these guys that wouldliterally go around the country
and try to get him paneled onthese juries so that they could,

(22:13):
like you know, have thesevendettas against the the.
It was actually gun industry,not tobacco.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
It wasn't without a John.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Cusack, John Cusack.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Gene.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Hackman, Dustin Hoffman Wow, what a cast.
Oh no, it was a good movie.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
So basically what you're saying is these the
longer these go on, the morestress tested the cases have
kind of been yeah, and so thatthere's yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
And the more likely that you'll end up in some form
of settlement that will haveindustry wide implications.
It's a foregone conclusion.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I guess there was a DOJ settlement that was reached
and they reneged and then theDOJ backed out and they're
trying to get the DOJ back inbecause I guess they figured
that's maybe their best solution.
And if you look at some of thethings that they were promising
in there, they are going to takean effect.
The way that we do real estateon a daily basis, like what
there was, requirements,requirements for disclosure from

(23:01):
buyers, agents you're no longera say that the seller pays you.
There's certain things that youcan't say, you can't take out.
You can't refuse a listingthat's going to offer no buyer
commission.
The MLS is going to be requiredto allow listings to go in the
MLS that have no co-brokeragecommission.
I mean because the reality of itis you have to realize,
realtors, that MLS control theyhave really does create yeah,

(23:26):
that's everything.
It does create control of theinventory, and so if you're
limiting compensation, I mean Iget the argument.
The problem is it's going tohurt the consumer.
So I mean to me the consumeraction groups need to be filing
a counter lawsuit saying that,hey look, this is hurting us and
our ability to sell our homes.
That would be, that would bethe next step.

(23:46):
I would think.
But I'm not an attorney, but wedo have somebody.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know, look the, they have a
system similar to what you know.
If these lawsuits go all theway, and and Rex, which is one
of the, it's like a Texas basedalternative to the MLS.
Like they have these listingsand they're not on the MLS and
that was part of their beef.
So they're one of theplaintiffs, okay, and they were

(24:12):
upset that their listings arediscriminated against because
they have lower commissions,okay.
So so National Association ofRealtors and all that it's not
the free market, though.
Yeah, but what they're saying isit's not very free when the MLS
is like has this kind of youknow I don't want to use the
term monopoly, but when it hasthis grip on the industry and
then we can't get our listingson the MLS because the National

(24:34):
Association of Realtors and theMLS people are preventing it
because our commissions arelower.
So what happens is, if you area buyer's agent, all of a sudden
you're a fan of the cobrokerage system with Rex.
You're going to get lesscommissions.
So what you do is you, youstrangle out these people like
Rex so that they can't listtheir properties on the MLS, and
so you basically have like, ifyou want to be on the MLS, you

(24:55):
got to be paying these.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
you know, you have to have these high commission
agreements, basically you couldput it on Zillow, you could put
it on, you know, on realtorcom,and you could put it anyway,
which arguably gets moretraction than even the MLS.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
I like that argument.
It's kind of like so if you'reblocked on Twitter by Twitter,
you just go post somewhere else.
Correct, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I'm just saying that I like when I hear these
similarities in your arguments.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
I just it was sitting back.
He's not as normal, so why no?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
no, but hold on.
So.
So what happens is in Europethey don't they.
They're basically dismantled cobrokerage or maybe they never
had it.
Okay, but over there,commissions are lower.
Okay, as a general premise, andthere are very few, if any,
buyer agents.
Okay, but what happens is, overthere, each brokerage has like
their own listings.
So if you're a buyer, okay,without like this general

(25:56):
database of places to go andpeople that have access to you
know, let's say, all thelistings or as many as as are
possible, then to be a buyer andmake sure you see the best
possible property for you youhave to be calling.
More exactly, you got to becalling multiple offices, which
is to make sure that you'regetting backwards the best

(26:16):
sampling.
Yeah, now it's true, they payless in commission over there,
their commission but they'lllose the more eyes on a property
.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
The more value you get, the more the more you get
for the property.
That's just.
That's just supply and demand.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
But that would that would that would that would
require you to be a fan of thefree market, which Europe is is
a little bit less of a rightflag waiver on that front.
They very much like to havethings controlled and sort of
you know, be nannyed a littlebit by the way here.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
That's one of the problems we're having is that
it's like everything else.
It's like, look, I think less,less of the things that we see
changing in this country inbusiness, and everything is less
of it is a function of theseideological positions that,
because people just don't thinkthat much, it's just a function
of the increased seat and desirefor the nanny state.

(27:02):
Yeah, okay, like we just wanteveryone to have to take care of
everything for us, you know.
So it's like you know.
It's like we don't want toforce people to look around,
like everything you just said,like one man, you know, if you
can't get your listings on theMLS, you could go to Zillow, you
go to Redfin, you go to this.
It's like listen, we don't wantto make people think we want
everything to be fair.
You know, it's like a greatbook.

(27:24):
There's a Kurt Vonnegut book,great book, called Harrison
Bergeron, 40 pages, maybehysterical read.
And it's about like this timein the not too different, not
too distant, dystopian future ofthe United States, where that
we have this, we have an entiregovernment office of the

(27:44):
government called the UnitedStates Handicapper General, okay
, and the office's expresspurpose is to make everyone as
equal as possible.
So if you are a dancer, and youare a wonderful dancer and
you're very agile, then they'llweigh you down.
You have to wear these weightsso that you're no better than

(28:05):
like the other dancers, okay.
And if, if you're very smart,okay, then they fit you with,
like this shock collar and everyfew minutes you get shocked, so
that you can't have too manydeep thoughts.
You know so if, like, you'rethinking real hard, it'll like
shock you out of it you know, sothat like you can't string

(28:26):
together too many coherentthoughts, you know and it sounds
hysterical, but first of all,the book is a great book and
it's brilliant.
The concept of the book isbrilliant and these guys, these
authors that wrote things likethat this book is not a new book
it's an old book.
You know it ends with like whatI don't know 60s maybe.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Okay, I'll tell you what man you read Hayek, the
1930s economist, hayek, andthey're all these same kind of
thing.
You know we're in these guysfrom the 1930s writing the stuff
, seeing you know FDR and allthe stuff that he did, and
Stalin and all these guys, andthen like their predictions and
seeing how much of it came trueand how much of it they
fascinating same thing with Rand, all these people, you know,

(29:08):
it's just listen, plato, plato'sRepublic.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Plato's most famous work is this exceedingly long
book called the Republic.
And in the Republic, what hedoes is he goes through and he,
he ranks, he talks about, heanalyzes every then known system
of government.
Okay, so he goes through and hegoes through monarchies,
dictatorships, democracies,despotism, and he goes through

(29:34):
and he ranks them, he discussesthem and then he ranks them, and
then he designs what hebelieves would be the perfect
society, which is like Plato'sRepublic.
Right, but but and frankly Idon't think anybody would want
to live in the Republic.
But that's not the point.
The point is that, contrary andremember this is, you know,
greece is the birthplace ofdemocracy Plato would actually

(29:56):
tell you that democracy is theworst form of government
horrific.
He was absolutely not a fan.
The only thing he thought wasworse than democracy was
despotism.
Okay, and the reason for thatis because he says that
democracy, you know, hebasically says it's a grand
oversimplification, but hebasically says that democracy is
a system of government.

(30:16):
That's like for a fickleindividual, a person who, like,
one day is into health andfitness and the next day is into
money, and one day he wakes upand he destroys himself on
substances, and then the nextday he wakes up and he's like
only eating vegan and all thesekind of things.
So basically Miami and yeah, Imean, it's fascinating and he's
got this whole little monologueon democratic man and you read

(30:37):
it and, by the way, this iswritten like 3000 years ago.
And it's like holy shit, thisis my neighbor, Like you're
reading it and it's, it'sincredible.
It's incredible the parallels,because you know these people
understand humans, but you knowit's so.
So in democracy, and one of thebest lines in it, he says
something like you know,democracy a perfect type of
government trying to produceequality for equals and unequals

(31:00):
alike.
You know, and there are justsome things that like you just
can't, you just kind of youcan't equalize them and so, but
that's, that's what these peopleare trying to do.
So Rex is like we should all beable to be on the MLS.
It doesn't matter 1%, 3%,doesn't matter what we charge.
And people are like no, we gotto have transparency.
And it's like what do you careif the seller it's like listen,

(31:21):
I'm coming to sell my house,you're the agent.
We agree on 6%.
I don't care, I got to pay you6%, I don't care if you take the
right.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
So how is the Chinese law?
How's that that?
That that law, you know thatthat you considered, you know,
potentially unconstitutional atone point, right, wouldn't it be
the same thing?
If I'm a seller, I want tofucking pay whatever fucking
commission I want.
I want to put it on whereverthe hell I want, right, I mean
so.
So isn't it the same thing?
I mean what?
Who is this guy?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
trying to restrict it .
I don't know that it takes awaythe ability of the seller to
pay a co brokerage commission.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
It takes away the system.
That that, that is, if thatsystem is working for me right
now, right?
Not a realtor, I'm a seller,right?
And you're screwing around withthe system?
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's affecting, it's affectingit's affecting how much money
I'm going to get for the problemI would.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
I would say that one of the arguments I make in my
case, my classes is that the,the MLS, truly represents the
retail residential real estatemarket better than any place you
could look, because, I mean,they have done a very good job
of bringing the vast majority ofinventory there.
So if you want to know what theretail value of a piece of real
estate is, you can usually lookat the MLS, even over the tax

(32:29):
roll or other places like that,because the tax roll reflects
hey, let me sell this to mycousin and distress that all
sorts of other things that maybe on the retail market.
And so when you do that,actually I think the other
unintended consequence is thevaluation of real estate becomes
much more difficult figuringout what something is worth,
because now we don't have thisone consistent location.

(32:50):
We don't know how well aproperty on Rex is exposed to
all potential buyers, sotherefore an evaluation that it
shows may actually be an adversevaluation for me to make.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Figure out like what the retail value of a piece of
like I mentioned.
I mentioned the other day.
There's there's three officialways to appraise property right
the income, the income approach,the sales comparison approach
and the cost comparison approach.
Right, there's three.
Replace the cost, yeah, but Ialso mentioned that the fourth
is the one that nobody mentions,and it's just what people are
willing to pay.

(33:23):
Sure, but that fourth onespecifically has to do with how
many eyes are on a property,absolutely Right.
That's just, and that's again.
The free market, with whatthese guys are doing or trying
to do, is absolutely going toaffect the number four one.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Well, I think that the big thing to me that's going
to be very hard to implementand I think is going to generate
a lot of lawsuits and a lot ofproblems, is it precludes a real
terse ability.
A buyer's agent from notshowing it keeps them from not
showing a property that is evenoffering zero commission.
They're going to be required toshow all property regardless of
compensation, and I don't knowhow you implement that and I

(34:02):
think that it just generates atremendous amount of lawsuits.
Because you know, if you have abuyer that's unwilling to pay
you, what are you going to say?
Get lost, yeah, we can't sharethat property.
And I mean, I would think thatthe overall goal is to make sure
that the buyers are representedby somebody that is going to
look out for their side.
I mean, I've done this businessa while.

(34:23):
When I work on the seller side,I definitely do everything I
can to tip everything into thebenefit of my seller.
When I'm on the buyer side, Ido the exact same thing.
You know, if you've never seena home inspection report, you
don't necessarily know what's inthere that's a problem and
what's not.
I mean, you know, I think it'sgoing to be good for your
business.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
But the thing is, you don't want to know either.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like people, they don't.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
People don't want to know.
Listen, the whole thing withthis is as follows the seller
that got pissed off.
Basically here's what he did.
He agrees to 6% or whatever thenumber is, but what he is
pretending he didn't know isthat the seller's agent was
actually only going to get 3%because, given that there's no
requirement that you disclosecobroke origin, by the way, only

(35:09):
really agents see the MLS.
Okay, like regular people don'tgo on to the MLS.
Okay, so what happens is buthold on, but they do.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
They just don't go into that part where it says the
commission, because IDX issomething that's attached to
every single website.
That's the MLS.
It's a more filter.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
This is about the commission, so they don't see
that part where the seller'sagent is saying if you're
another agent and you bring me abuyer, I'm going to split my
commission with you, right, okay, so the thinking man's cure
would be to just require listingagreements, which, by the way,
are promulgated forms.
You don't have to use them, butthe Florida Association of

(35:48):
Realtors puts out a form listingagreement, which is what most
people use.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
We use a bar bar a Florida Association of Realtors
and a bar.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right.
So all you have to do is kindof modify the form to say to
protect the seller.
Let's say, okay, who's alreadyagreeing to the 6%?
Just add a little sentence thatsays I'm willing to pay 6%.
Okay, but only to the extentthat 3% is going to go to a
cooperating broker.
If you're the only agent in thetransaction, then you only pay

(36:16):
3%, that's the part.
That's not in there, becausewhat the seller's saying is the
only reason why I'm paying 6% isbecause you want to give half
of your commission away.
So, in other words, 3% is whatyou should be charging, because
3% is fair, because that's whatyou're going to make anyway.
Okay, so just have it in therethat says listen, man, I'll pay
you 6% so long as you're onlygetting 3%.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
And if you're the only agent in the deal, then
guess what You're only making 3%.
Right, but that's not fairbecause you're working both
sides of the deal.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
But, does it matter?
Double the responsibility.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Well, no, that's like you representing a client right
and then, all of a sudden,you're representing the client
that he's doing a deal with Inall the hundreds of deals that
you've done?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
how many times?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Hundreds Motherfucker , are you crazy?
Hundreds of thousands, are youfucking insane?
Hundreds.
In all the thousands of dealsthat you've done, hundreds of
thousands In all the tens ofdeals that you've done, tens of
thousands.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
How many times have you had an agent complain that
the other agent isn't doing shit, isn't it?
Get 3%.
Well, a lot of times.
Okay so, bro.
So again, we don't really havea metric, for you know, you're
doing all the work, you'reearning all the work.
The other side doesn't do shit.
Like there isn't like a testfor oh, you did your job, so
here's your 3%.
You don't have to do shit, youget the 3%.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
This is true, but somebody has to do it to get it
done right.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
It has to happen, but what is there to do?

Speaker 3 (37:34):
What is there to do?
Look, what is there to do.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
All right.
So, yeah, what is there to dowhen you?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
when you have a buyer , unless you're in a fucking
condo what are you doing, Bro?
I'm loving this Let me just,let me just go ahead, let me
just.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
You're better qualified dancers.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
When you hand out real estate licenses and this
should be mandated from fromFREC it should just come with a
pooper scooper, because all wedo all the time is have to go
behind everybody and make surethey're doing what they're not
supposed to.
Because if you think agents arethe only ones that suck
mortgage brokers, I hate to sayit title companies, the whole
man's sp, everybody.
My job they tell me that my jobhas something to do with real

(38:10):
estate.
My job is a fob job thatoccasionally has me looking at
real estate.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's like saying that the composer, the guy with
the little fucking stick that'sin the orchestra, all he does is
hold the little stick and golike that.
No, dude, he's, he's conducting.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I don't think that's a good comparison.
It's an absolutely phenomenalconspiracy.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
I would say to you that there's this right.
My job and I stole this fromhim, but it's actually a very
good line Must be great.
My job is to take and make surethat they have no surprises.
Yes, and what that means isyou're managing emotional state
of these people that arespending hundreds of thousands
or millions of dollars that mayhave never been exposed to this
before.
My job is to make sure thateverything that can go wrong,
which you're in the titlecompany, you know there's a

(38:47):
million ways for a deal to gosideways, right.
My job is to make sure that we,in advance, know what those are
.
I've taken all the stepspossible to mitigate those
potential exposures and to takeand shepherd them through,
because You're walking themthrough a process that they have
no idea what to expect.
Even like you and I both know,three days before closing, what
happens.

(39:07):
The deal goes to this magical,horrible place called
underwriting and all of a sudden, that buyer is getting.
They haven't heard from theirmortgage broker in a month.
Everything seems fine and nowthey're calling them up, asking
them for every document.
Since Gutenberg invented theprinting press, they assure them
that they can't get a DNAsample from their dead
grandmother's pet chihuahua.

(39:28):
This deal's not gonna close.
They're freaking out.
They think the world's gonnaend.
Now for me.
I'm out in front of all thatstuff.
I've told them hey, this isnormal.
Not only is this normal, thisis good.
Then, breaking your chops formore documents means that we're
getting close.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Wait a second.
I'm a little insulted around.
What the fuck do you think arealtor actually does?
Though let's talk about it.
So what should a realtor do,and what?
Because then I'm gonna tell youwhat an attorney should do.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
So go ahead bro.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Tell me what you think a realtor does.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
This is when I don't wanna be in the middle.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
So let's get to the data grid here, bro.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Let's make sure that we set the premises of what
we're talking about.
This came up because Jesus waslike it's not fair to have on
the document which, by the way,same free market you can say no
as the listing.
Aegee, you should be like noman, fuck you, I'm gonna get 6%.
Come hell or high water,whether there's another agent or
not, I'm gonna get my 6%, which, by the way, is not the way it
works.
Okay.
So your point is when there'sanother agent, I'm okay with

(40:22):
only 3%, because the other guysgot all this work to do.
Even though we agreed thatthere's no rule, even though we
agreed that the other agentcould be a piece of shit, and
you're still only gonna get 3%so either you decide.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Well, a good listing realtor makes the guy do the
stuff.
No, that's not true, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
A true listing realtor.
Just emails him and gets pissedoff.
We see it all the time, In factif that were the case, you'd
never get to closing in herewith the other guys.
Shouldn't get paid Rightbecause I would have made him do
what he was supposed to do.
It's false.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
I have a laundry list of ways to make him do it
himself.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
So what happens is what happens is okay when you
represent the buyer.
Let's talk about just MiamiDade County, okay when you are
the buyers?

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Well, that's not fair .
Wait, wait, wait.
Well, because that's a placeYou're going to low hang the
fruit.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, no, because that's a place where yeah,
that's a place where you know,like for example the custom here
in Dade and Broward, just in afew counties, it's that the
title, the buyer insurance, paystitle right and all that good
stuff.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Firefix and pay-as-in .

Speaker 2 (41:17):
And you know the buyer's agent has to prepare the
offer Okay, which, in my views,a lot easier than being the
listing agent and receiving theoffer Okay.
In the law it's the same.
You know, you got two lawyersworking a deal together.
It's a transaction.
There's always this question atthe beginning Do you want to
take a shot at preparing thedocument and sending it over to
me for a review?
You want me to do it?

(41:38):
And the right answer is alwaysoh fuck, you do it Okay, but the
custom is the buyers preparethe offers Okay, so the buyer's
agent has to prepare the offer.
That's doing a little more thanthe selling agent at this point
.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Okay, so you know, no , man, no.
No the listing agent has to yousaid to this point.
So that means the listing agenthad to, like get the pictures
of the property market, theproperty, no, I'm not talking
about that.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Okay, no to this point.
Okay, all right, but remember,all that gets done before the
buyer even shows up with anagent, right, but there's work
done.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
No no we're doing an Excel sheet with hours.
No, no, no, no, we're talkingabout.
There's an Excel sheet buyer.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Hold on.
This is the way I'm seeing this.
There's an Excel sheet withhours, right the listing agent
and the buyer's agent.
You get frustrated because youknow you're losing the argument.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
No, I'm getting frustrated, because this is why
I had to set the premises.
We're talking about the workthat the other agent arguably
takes off your hands, which iswhy you're okay with the 3%.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Okay, so you said to this point so that's probably
the 3% off, right, because we'retalking about work that's
subject to being unloaded, Okaygo ahead, so you never get the
work of the pictures and baking,the cookies and the showings
unloaded.
Not the baking, the cookies,the marketing of the property.
Yeah, that's part of thefucking marketing you wanted to
walk in and smell like homeMarketing well marketing.
You just did all that shit.
By the way, how many offers didyou get that you didn't accept?

(42:55):
How many counter offers were?

Speaker 3 (42:57):
off the table?
How many deals?
How many times have you gottendeals?
None of that work is off-loaded.
Hold on.
How many times have a listingagent?

Speaker 1 (43:02):
How many times has a listing agent gotten three
offers?
Can you help on this?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
And none of them close up the kind of work we're
talking about.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
I get what you're saying and I think this is the
piece rich that is, is the onethat I get in my soul, the
normal guy.
The part that's off-loaded isshowing the properties.
So like, right now I'm gonnajump on a plane, I'm flying to
Rome.
Tomorrow, right, I'm gonna bein Rome and my listings are
gonna be getting sold, and sothat is the piece.
That is the very time consumingpiece.
It's the reason why buyersagents have such a high

(43:30):
attrition rate in this industryis because it is very time
consuming To take people to seeeight properties.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
So physically yeah eight properties it's a day.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
It's a good number.
Yeah, might be three days,depending on the buyer,
especially if he brings hismother-in-law.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
That's the tough thing.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And so to me there's thisbalancing point of that, and
actually there's two things.
One I wanted to toss out beforeI forget One of the big things
that's in the lawsuit is they'regonna require the disclosure of
the commission to the public.
That's one of the things solike on the oh.
So now it's on IDX.
It's gonna be everywhere.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
This is part of what they're looking for the
transparency.
And this again, the lawsuit.
It's rarely about.
It's not about one thing, okay,it's not like, hey, we wanna
dismantle co-brokerage.
That's how the industry phrasesit when they're writing about
it to make it sound worse thanit is what these people are
looking for.
Certain things we want moretransparency, we want this, we
want this, we want this, we wantthat.

(44:24):
The other side, if you'reagainst it, you're like this
amounts to the dismantling ofthe co-brokerage system
Socialism.
Right and so again, look like Isaid, the longer the case goes
on, the more likelihood that itwill result okay in changes that
both sides will agree to have.
Okay, because if you let thejudge and the jury decide, you

(44:45):
may get all, you may get nothing, or you may get a combination
of things that nobody likes.
So it's a powerful thing tocontrol your own destiny and
that's why these cases, like Isaid, the longer they last, the
more incentive there is toresolve the case.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Okay, so continue on.
What does the realtor actually?

Speaker 3 (45:00):
do I got one more thing, please.
I'm sorry, and then we'll goback to this, because there's a
question actually for you, rich,and I'm curious for the legal
opinion.
I know what I think, but whothe hell am I?
It's always my preference, if Ican, for us to do the agreement
on our side.
I was meaning who, whicheverside, I'm on right, because then
I set all the terms.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
So if you're on the seller side, you do the realtor
To do the agreement, you meanthe offer, the contract.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
If you're on the seller side, you make the offer
for the buyer's realtor.
If I could, I would prefer If Ihad the choice.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
You're the only person I've ever seen, ever do
this If I could.
If they say, hey, I'm onvacation, could you?
I'm like sure I'm gonna put howmany days for inspections, I'm
gonna put all those terms inthere and they're gonna be as
that's very, very, very, veryrare.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
It's very rare.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
But what I'm saying is I'm asking for them Because
we've heard of them, BecauseRich kind of left me in it, and
I know you're obviously in aposition where you're doing
agreements back and forth.
Is it your preference always todo the agreement for your side,
or are you like, hey, look, yougo ahead and do?

Speaker 2 (45:51):
it.
It depends.
I mean, look, I usually withform documents like the FAR, as
is.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Only so amazing the way it goes, right man Go ahead
and prepare it and send it to me.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Okay.
And the same is almost truewith document-intense
transactions, where it's likeand it's the best, when you deal
with lawyers and they'reselling high-end property here,
especially commercial, and theydon't wanna use like the
commercial contract that thegroup of lawyers put out there,
they wanna send you their ownand it's like 40 pages long.

(46:24):
It's like, dude, it says thesame shit, just with more here
to fours and not with standings,yep.
So it's like okay, bro, youwanna use your big fancy forms
you justify your fee?
No problem, okay so.
But as a general premise, Iprefer to poke holes in
documents than to be the one.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, that sounds way more fun To put the initial
work, because no matter how goodyour contract is I know you
when I feel like that judge waswhat I know about you.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I prefer to do that, or to kinda look and see where
the other side's coming from.
It gives.
I often tell people let's takethe temperature.
So when we see the nature ofthe document they send over, you
kinda see where their head is.
What's the notice requirement?

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Well, the first rule of negotiation is let them put
the offer first.
I mean, you always want to bethe guy receiving the offer?
Sure, I get that.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
So that's just the negotiation, if they're giving
me the terms, the general terms.
What I always look to do isokay, those are the terms you
want, I'll go in there and putthe rest of the terms in my.
You're getting five days forinspection.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
There's that side too , which is good right.
If we agree on basic terms,they rarely we call them the
operative terms.
No term sheet ever really goesinto the nitty gritty.
So, that might be youropportunity.
Now again, listen thewealthiest people I represent

(47:40):
the most successful people I'vebeen around.
They're very short on the nittygritty.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
These are visionary guys.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
They're like oh we shake hands and we walk away,
and then it's like let thelawyers figure it out, and
that's when things start to geta little complicated, because
it's our job to make sure nobodysteps in shit to the extent
possible.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Protect them as best you can, while at the same time
getting the deal done, ifpossible Right so you know, but
and that's how you guys got thename deal, deal, deal killers,
deal breakers, deal breakers,yeah, deal killers.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Which, a lot of times , let me tell you, man, a lot of
times is the case, cause youknow, listen, I get it.
You're charging $500 an hourand then you get a far bar
contract in front of you, which,by the way, was prepared by the
Florida Association of Realtors, and the bar which you guys had
a hand in taking and baking thecake.
Right, and then all of a suddenyou taste it.
It tastes like shit.
That's basically what it comesdown.
And but I get it, cause ifyou're getting paid $500 an hour

(48:30):
, you can't look at it and belike, all right, it's perfect,
there, you go.
Right, you gotta change theamount.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
No, I mean listen, I do and, like I said, I mean
that's.
It gets to the point where Ithink you know it's like there's
the only lawyers that can't dothat are the ones that really
have to justify these insanerates where, like you, go into
their office and the coffeestirrer has the firm name yeah,
yeah.
So like when you're when thathappens, If the coffee stirrer
is branded.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, get out of there.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Right you know what I mean.
The run for the phone and thecoffee has the logo Exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Right if they bring you the phone and like it's
branded with the firm's logo allthe conference room have
telephony.
Okay so it's like you know.
Now you get to be, you know, a20 year practitioner and you
kind of you know you've earned astripe or two.
Listen again.
I hate reinventing the wheel.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
As a general premise.
So you've actually looked at acontract and say it's good, it's
fine and not changed the onething.
There's no fucking way.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
No, I mean when you say not change one thing, I mean
, yeah, like ordinarily, I'llget an offer.
Let's say I'm representing abuyer Okay, and the buyer's
agent prepares the offer Okay.
And let's say that it's the thereal ideal setting where you're
asked to review the offer inadvance Okay, I get many
documents, contracts, that Ihave to say, yeah, it's fine.

(49:45):
You want to know why?
Cause it's fully executed.
What am I going to do?
Point out all the fuck ups now.
Like like bro, that guy's a buzzkill.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Like yeah, no no, I get it Like.
This is fully executed.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I usually go right to the back to see how much time I
have to spend on it.
If it's fucking signed byanybody, my work is done here
you know Everything you didwrong.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
I picked up the piece at the first point.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
So if you, if you send me the offer in advance,
then I and you are, and I'mgoing to work for the buyer.
Let's say we're going to do theclosing, or something like that
.
I will usually add a provisionthat nowadays is missing way
less often than it used to be,okay, which is, you know, the

(50:31):
what I call the permit language.
Okay, so nowadays, most offerswill come to me and, and I'll
see it, and it says seller will,at its sole cost and expense,
close any and all open permitsprior to the closing.
Okay, and these agents, man,they slapped that on and they're
ready to break their arms,patting themselves on the back
Cause they, they think theythey're like, we got it.

(50:52):
They, they, they put it atseller's expense to whole new
seller's going to pay.
Wow, fuck you guys.
Bro, you thought it all throughand I and I will usually change
that to you know a slightlybetter version of the same thing
At any time prior to closingRight.
That'll say you know it'll giveyou at any time prior to

(51:14):
closing.
So now we're not really boundby the diligence timeline Okay.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
But that's tricky though, cause once you pass the
diligence and then it says atany time it's not tricky.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
It's not tricky.
Okay, I've.
I've rammed it up many asseswith that, I know, man.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
but you're supposed to close on day 30 and then day
29.
It should be restricted to alittle bit, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I got it, so that's that's the law of drafting on
the other side.
So so you get that.
Now you're the seller's lawyerand you flip to the back and you
see it, and the guy writes atany time prior to closing.
And you don't like that.
You're going to say at any timeprior to closing, but at no
event within 10 days of closingRight.
Okay, and then that's what yougot to do.
So this is advocacy, okay, sothis is the law of advocacy and

(51:57):
this is how you're supposed todo it, and so you know.
But to answer your question, Iwill routinely, if that, if the
permit provision is not in there, I'll put it in there.
If it's low on what I callspecifics.
Okay, cause, like most people,they don't think about what's
next.
So in legal writing, you haveto contemplate the consequence.
So in in that common example,seller shall, at seller's sole

(52:19):
cost and expense, close any andall open permits prior to
closing.
Okay, what if they don't do it?
Now I know you're thinking whoa, that means the buyer doesn't
have to close, and it's like butwhere does it say that?
Oh, no, no, it doesn't say that.
That's what I meant and I'mlike okay, but you were writing
it Like why didn't you just likeput why didn't you just say
what you meant?
Why didn't you just fucking addthe content once and by the way,

(52:42):
this is like a common principleof contracts and in drafting
and, by the way, in contract law, we have this rule okay, which
a lot of the and you'll love itbecause it's common sense okay,
a lot of the law-.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
By the way, it's because he's saying that,
because I have phenomenalExceptional Nobody's never seen
any bit of more common senseAbove average.
It's unbelievable.
I could just figure shit out.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
You know there's a rule in contract law that's
called that ambiguity isconstrued against the draft.
Sure, okay.
So if you are the author of thedocument, you are charged with
a heightened level of scrutinyabout what you put in Another
reason why not to do it, or leftout right.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
That's the other guy.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Well, I'll show you, I'll tell you what the cure was.
Lawyers came up with a fix forthat too, Okay.
So if you have the typewriter,you have the pen, then you know.
Listen, if it's important toyou, you should have put it in
there, okay.
And if you wrote it that makeme have to imagine it Right.
And if you wrote it and youdidn't put it in there, then the
inference that we can draw isthat it wasn't that important to

(53:46):
you.
Right okay, so now.
So enough lawyers got theirasses burned with that kind of
rule that now, most of thesenon-form contracts, this is why
you want.
So if you're the big firmlawyer and now they're listening
, they're like you see, rich,you asshole, there is a reason
for my 55-page fucking document.
It's because you'll put inthere a disclosure that says hey

(54:09):
, doesn't matter who wrote this,each party had a lawyer, each
side had an opportunity andthere will be no, you know no,
construing against the drafter.
Okay, so they'll add aprovision that kind of to
nullify that general rule ofcontract.
Okay, but so when I get thepermit language, I'll add, like
consequence language, which isyou know, and if the seller so,

(54:30):
let's say, at any time prior toclosing, if open, expired or
needed permits are discovered,okay, the seller shall do
whatever they have to do toresolve the permit issues, let's
say prior to closing, okay, andif the seller fails or refuses
to comply with the obligationsimposed under this section, then

(54:51):
buyer can one terminate thecontract and request an
immediate refund to the depositwhich shall be given.
Two, take the property subject,two, okay, and decide to close,
right, so you provide thisconsequence and then all of a
sudden, we know where we'regoing.
Like we're not, you know,because you get the agent.
I get the call.

(55:11):
They're like, oh, I put it inthere, the permit language, and
they're refusing.
And I'm like, okay, what didyou write?
After that they're like, no, Ididn't.
No, what do you mean?
What do?

Speaker 1 (55:20):
you mean?
What did I write after?

Speaker 2 (55:21):
I wrote that it was in there.
I said seller had to pay, youknow, and so you have to
contemplate the consequence.
So have I ever gotten an offerthat I don't have to change?
The answer is actually yes.
When, let's say, I get it fromone of your well-trained agents
that actually listens, they cutand fucking paste the language

(55:41):
that I've emailed 2,000 times.
They don't wanna think.
They're like bro.
I don't have to think when Isee this section 20, the blank
lines, like Pavlov's dog, it's abell bing.
Where's my cut and paste?
That's right, right, when Irepresent the buyer.
Don't fucking think, bro.
Don't be an author, don't doanything else Not the creative
writing section.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
So when?

Speaker 2 (55:58):
it's done right, you know you don't get it.
Some agents, they know they askfor the seller's disclosure.
If it's a condo, they put thegoddamn condo writer in there.
I mean, like you know, thedocument comes with bells and
whistles, not like you know,like there's almost a form of
endem for everything you know.
So it's like.
Post occupancy is another goodone.
We just had this like listen,if your seller wants to stay in
the property after the closing,that's a tricky one.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
We have an endem for that.
I know it's real.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Bro, but no, no, but the addendum doesn't make you
exhaust the terms.
It says hey, we're gonna eitherget into an agreement or a
lease, and we're gonna do it atleast for a day, right.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
and the reason why you need a lease is because it
needs to specify what happens ifyou don't pay and if you don't
leave, or because and becausemost people also don't know the
difference.
So no addendum, has enoughlanguage in it to cover black
men's stuff, everything theycould possibly have.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Right, of course, no, no, and, by the way, that's the
other.
No, the fun of contract is thatthey're.
You know, whenever the shipblows up, then it's like, well,
it would have been much betterhad it set X.
And it's like, no shit, asshole, If I had a crystal ball, I'd
be the best fucking lawyer inthe world.
Right, so you can't plan foreverything, but the universe of

(57:07):
things that you should thinkabout in advance is a lot
smaller than people wanna givecredit for.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
But credit for yeah, you're like how could I have
imagined that?

Speaker 2 (57:16):
It's like, how could you have imagined what happened
if the guy didn't do what youwanted to do?
Well, that's because that'sfucking.
You know, it's 50%.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Rich, I gotta tell you.
They're either gonna comply ornot you know, I gotta tell you
the way you explained that theone time we were doing a class
together was my favorite, whichis that an addendum can never
leave you in suspense.
I thought that was a brilliantway.
Like we're not happy as youcall it.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I was like hey, hey, hey, wait, wait say that part
again.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Wait, wait, can you?
We're not happy like that.
Listen, when you guys edit this, I'd like you to loop that.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Just quickly go back to it.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
My favorite part, my favorite part my favorite part
was when you said you said, yousaid Right, just make sure you
get the emphasis on that, okay.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
No, man, I mean even what, cause I still use it.
I give you credit for it and Istill use it and I say look, you
know okay.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
If it's a page turner , if your contract's a page
turner, you fucked up.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Something's wrong.
Tune in next week to find outwhat happens when they don't do
it.
What happens next?

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Exactly, that's bad.
That's bad, illegal writing.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
That's bad.
That's a technical illegal term, bad.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
So let's go back to what you think realtors do Like
for real Not a lot bro.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
No, no, no, I know Listen, cause I know this is
undertone.
Let me tell you what they do.
This is undertone between theattorneys.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Yeah, exactly See, that's what it is.
That's exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
There's some bitterness there, Listen.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
I went to college.
Listen how long 100%.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
That's exactly what happens.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Wait a second this guy made 30 grand on this
transaction.
The next installment of theshow has to tell us why law
school is a waste of money.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Go ahead.
So what do you think a realtordoes?
So a realtor, they show theproperty, All right.
So let's start.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
They meet the client Showing the property?
No, no, no.
They meet the client, theyprepare them.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
They show properties.
You're off there already.
First of all, they got to meetwith the client.
They got to get them to amortgage lender so he could get
approved for a loan.
Yeah, depending on the buyer.
Yeah, Most buyers 90% 78% 78%.
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Yeah, 78% of the client bought.
You hear?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
that he's like Cadillac shut up.
It's bad for my argument.
I need to take 78.
Cadillac, can you find meanother 25 points?
I need to say it's 93%,Honestly.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
I'll take 78.
I wouldn't doubt in this marketthat it probably is more.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
OK, so I'll just cover the holes when you miss
them.
All right, so we meet with theclient, assess what they're
looking for, take them to alender, get approved for a
lender and then what Showproperties Show properties how?
Many an average are showed,that one I don't know, and by
the way, what's the agent Like?

Speaker 2 (59:45):
are we dealing with our agents where they don't
understand the use of thecomputer?
An agent, Because nowadays youcan put them on this little sign
up where you tell them hey, Iwant to live within this many
miles, I got this price, andevery day the buyer will wake up
and they'll get hit in the headwith 50 emails.
That's fine.
Via property, that's fine.
And then you just got to tellthe agent which one you want to
see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Ok, so right and they show that, ok, so they do the
search.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
We've had that for a long time.
It just doesn't work out thatway.
I mean sadly, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
It does.
I was on that list.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
No, I mean but let's be honest, you don't consider
yourself the average buyereither.
No, because I can read.
Yes, this is true, I mean Fine.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
OK, so fine.
So then they show theproperties.
So let's say, in an average ofwhat I don't know, 10 to 15?

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
I would say 12 was the number that I kind of
remember from someplace was theaverage.
All right, so they show 12.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
You get to show a shit ton of property Then all of
a sudden what happens and theylike the property Remember but
hold on a second Because, again,here's the thing we got to keep
you focused Because, help meout, we're talking about work
that you're offloading when yourepresent the seller.
Ok, now, presumably, unless youhave all 15 of these listings,

(01:00:52):
unless the seller's agent hasall 15 of the listings that the
buyer's agent is going to show.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I just want you to know the whole rule.
But go ahead, I'll give youthat.
No, my point is that Oneproperty.
They show that one property.
My point is that it's oneproperty.
I know you're going with atechnicality.
I got to go.
It's not a technicality.
I know you're long enough, justgo.
It's very simple.
Keep on going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
When you're the seller, when you have the
listing, we're talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
what does the buyer's agent take off of your plate.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
What does?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
the buyer's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
You figured out that little one Focus.
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead,focus so they took one showing
off your plate, fine.
Ok, and then?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
OK, go ahead.
They prepared the offer.
If it's a condo, theypresumably, and they should be
on top of the applicationprocess for the buyer.
We train, in fact in ourclasses we train agents that
when you're taking a buyer tosee a condo, you should be ready
, you should have the docs forthat condo, the application.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
By the way, is that an easy process, getting them
approved for the association?
Oh, it's a pain in the ass,huge pain in time consuming.
Pain in the ass, right?
Nobody answers the phoneHorrible, huge nightmare
Horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
And theoretically I'm willing to concede that if you
are listing the condo and thebuyer shows up with no agent,
you're going to have to takethat on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Right, because most buyers.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
It doesn't occur to them oh shit, I have to apply,
and what does that mean?
So what else?
What else?
They should follow up with thelender, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Follow up with the lender To make sure that the
lender is on top of it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
And, more importantly , how about inspections that the
buyers well, it depends.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
And does that inspector just magically show up
with the property?
Or you got to find them one andusually recommend a couple of
them so they could help thempick the right inspector,
schedule it, be there, analyzeit with them, the inspection
report, the whole thing right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
No, they shouldn't do that, and I'll tell you that as
a sitting commissioner.
They should not do that.
They should not do that.
In fact, we frown on that, andit's very difficult to get
inspection related coursesapproved for continuing
education for agents in Florida.
We really want agents to stayin their lane here, ok, so it's
not a good idea to have youragent or to have an agent if

(01:03:04):
you're the broker to have youragent giving your buyer their
assessment on the inspection.
No, I didn't say assessment,yeah, yeah help them analyze it
and all that shit and look at itand tell them what's a concern.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
In Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
I wouldn't do that In Miami.
I wouldn't do that In Miami.
You're translating them a lot.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
In Miami, the agents don't speak.
I mean, think about it.
How many, be realistic?
How many of your agents don'tspeak English?

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
percentage-wise Out of the 500, I would say, at
least don't speak any at all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Like don't read it, like they can't have not
functioning English.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
No they do because they got to read the contract
and everything.
But that's not their secondlength, that is their first.
Yeah, I would say a largemajority.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
I don't even know how many, but it was a large
majority, I would think alsoyour office tends to
disrepresent thatsub-demographic.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, we're a Hispanic company.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Spanish speaking Indural.
I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Seven of 10?
.
Eight of 10?
.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
OK.
And how many inspection reportshave you ever seen in Spanish?
None, ok.
So if you're a consumer, youthink it's a good idea to have
someone who doesn't speak.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Honestly, I don't think I'd want to see what it's
reading.
No, no, I wouldn't be kind ofconcerning too, and think about
it now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
So you're buying the house.
Do you want the guy or gal thatdoesn't speak or read English
to help you analyze yourinspection report?
Well, I think, Because I don'tthink it's a good idea.
I know it happens because,again, these people don't think
either.
Sure, OK, but it's likeanything else.
It's like and, by the way, I dothis in our classes a lot, Not
just you I walk into class whenI'm teaching a class to agents
and I'll hold up the as is andI'll say OK, guys, be honest,

(01:04:31):
now who's read this document?
End to end, beginning to end.
And in the room right, and I'lltell you you'll get one
sheepish guy like that Becausethey look.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
They do like these guys at the debate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
It's like, hey, who will support no matter what?
And you see one guy was likethis and then the crowd started
going, and then they werelooking around.
They were like I better go onthe train, OK, so when you ask
that question, you get this test.
So I tell agents all the time Igo.
Ok, if you're in the group ofpeople who didn't raise your
hand, how can you help theconsumer?

(01:05:05):
And, in fact, and if theconsumer asks you, right out the
bat, you present an offer.
Have you read this?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
All credibly up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
What are you going to say?
You're either going to lie andsay, oh, yeah, yeah, which is
bad, or you're going to tell thetruth.
You're going to say, no, Ihaven't.
I mean.
You mean this one.
No, I've never like thedocument itself.
It's the same one we use everyday, but I've never read it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
I've never taken the time to turn off All 13 pages.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
So what kind of confidence can you inspire in
the thing.
So this just goes back to whatthe agent should be doing, and
in my view they really shouldstick to sales.
Ok whatever the aspects ofsales mean.
So babysitting the mortgagebroker, I agree.
Ok, because you're not doing,you're not interpreting things
there.
Ok, you're not giving yourlegal opinion.
The mortgage broker is askingfor your last 58 W2s.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
So the inspection report came with issues as it
does.
How many?
What percentage of the timethat would?

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
be 100.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah 104% of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
OK so 104%.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
there's something wrong, so who has to either
extend the inspection period orhelp with the negotiation?
Who's going to pay?

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
the washer and the dryer.
Both agents are doing that.
Both agents for both sides,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
So what happens if there's only one side?
Do you got to do both sides ofthe negotiation?
It depends.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Are you a transaction broker or are you just a minute
?
We're talking about what workis being unloaded.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
We're talking about what work is being unloaded.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Unloaded.
Ok, right.
So if that's the case, so you'regoing to commune, no matter
what you're communicating withthe other side and, by the way,
if you are a buyer's agent andyou're buyer's requesting an
extension, typically thatextension addendum is going to
be drafted by the buyer's agentFirst.
In transactions where you don'thave a listing agent, it's a

(01:06:46):
control person.
I see many, particularly inhigher end transactions.
If you're the listing agent,it's like you know, you're
almost like a different.
It's like the meme Remember,like the vampires when they're
on the balcony.
It's like you know everyone wholocked in a 2%, looking at
everybody else and they're likelooking down at you.
So if you are a high value, youknow seller's agent, you know

(01:07:07):
listing agent in this town.
You may want to controleverything and draft everything,
OK, but you have to do thatwork right of documenting any
changes to the transaction.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
So you know, and this is one thing that I think you
and I agree, as long aseverything goes right,
everything goes right, Right.
And when it goes wrong it's adisaster and that's what really.
And the same thing withattorneys, right?
So, yeah, you get paid the youknow.
There's one attorney that youknow explained it to me in a
perfect way, you know it's.
Oh, what do you charge the 500bucks an hour, right?

(01:07:39):
Well, it's not for the hour,it's for the 15 years of school.
Of my knowledge, yeah, Of casesthat have gotten my ass kicked
and this and that, to get to thepoint where I'm able to charge
that amount.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Oh, you'll love this one.
You're paying for the painitself.
There's a guy.
He's a very wealthy guy.
He's got a big yacht, yachts,got two humongous motors engines
okay.
And a yacht so big he's got anengine room okay, it's not just
under the fucking compartment,okay.
And so you go down.
The guy goes down in the engineroom.
He just bought the yacht.
He takes it out.
When he comes back he's pissedoff because one of the engines

(01:08:13):
has a noise.
He can hear it, but it justdoesn't sound right.
You know when you pay Do I know?
this guy, no, and when you pay10 million bucks for a boat you
know a boat of this size thefucking engine's got to sound
right, okay, and so here's it,this and that, and he calls a
few mechanics.
Nobody can fix it.
The Rolls Royce usually theseengines are Rolls.
Royce.
They send the Rolls Royce Repthis and that, nobody can fix it

(01:08:35):
.
This is a real guy.
Finally.
Well, it's one of those statesthat if it's not true, it should
be you know.
And so finally, the guy'stalking to his buddy and he says
no, you know, there's a guy,there's this old, you know
maritime marine mechanic guy andthe guy's the best, he's the
guy you got to call and he'ssure call.
This fucking old man shows upto the marine.

(01:08:56):
He's got one of those oldschool like an actual toolbox.
You know, nowadays they're alltool bags, they call them
toolbox.
This guy has a box, okay, alittle fucking wooden handle,
and he shows up and he gets theboat and he says, all right, let
me see it.
And they go down the engineroom, bro, and the guy you know,
he turns it on why does it havea hillbilly accent?

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Because he's from the deep south.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
There may not be a mullet involved.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
He turns it on and the old man goes like this and
he listens, and he puts his handon the side of like the casing,
you know, and he feels likethis thing and he says, okay,
you want me to fix it?
And the guy says the guy says,yeah, of course, please do.
The old man goes into his toolbag.
He pulls out a little tinylittle hammer, okay, with like a

(01:09:42):
little mallet tip, and he justturns and he goes like this, to
the side of the engine.
He goes thunk, thunk, yeah,thought so.
And the humming stops, okay,and the, the owner of the boat,
is so fucking happy.
He's like, oh, my god, you'rethe best.
So and so told me you were thebest.
I don't know why I fuckingwasted my time.
I'm gonna call you foreverything.
Now my fucking hose doesn'twork.

(01:10:03):
I'm gonna call you.
It gives me a big hug, guys,I'll send you a bill Next day.
He gets the bill from the oldman 10,000 bucks and the guy
goes fucking a shit, tenthousand dollars.
He calls, the old man goes hey,I got your bill.
There must listen, be, I'mstill happy that you fixed my
boat.
So instead of telling you to gofuck yourself, I want to break

(01:10:24):
down.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
I want you to itemize bill.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I want you to itemize the bill for me of how you got
to the $10,000 that you'recharging me.
And the old man says yeah, noproblem.
And the old man sends him backan itemized bill that says
number one Knocking on side ofengine with hammer five dollars.
Number two knowing where toknock, 9,995.

(01:10:47):
Yeah, that's, you know, that'sthe.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
That's the theme of the example of what you're
saying with the lawyer, yeah, soso what I'm trying to get at
all, right, Well, sorry, let'scontinue with this.
Let's continue with the.
Okay, so so if things go wrongRight, that's where a realtor
has to pick up the pieces right,potentially have to sell the
property again, move to anotherone, then dumps over a, then

(01:11:15):
them over a, then that's notoffloadable work.
Having to sell the propertyagain.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Loatable work, okay, all right, so selling the
property before the propertysold once you're in contract.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
So once okay, so we're talking about the
financing seller that got pissedoff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Now you gotta, because he found out that after
he agreed to 6%, that he paid 3%of that to the buyer's agent,
and he didn't know that inadvance.
And his position is.
Had I known that in advance,had I known you Were happy with
3% to sell my house, I wouldhave never agreed to pay you
more than 3%.
And all and all I said is that,instead of fucking suing people
and Dismantling the whole cobrokerage system because you got

(01:11:53):
one asshole seller that wantsto be babysat, he wants it on
the form that that if there's acooperating agent, you're gonna
pay money, and all that.
You just had a fucking sentence.
It says hey, if you work thisdeal by yourself, I'm gonna pay
you 3%, and if you work it withsomebody else, you know, if
you're working by yourself, I'mgonna pay you the, the 3%, and
if you work it with somebodyelse, I'll pay 6%, because I

(01:12:13):
know, but if you're on the sameyou're saying, remark it if
you're a selling agent should beable to say no, man, if I work
it by myself.
That's when I really want the 6%, because I gotta do all this
extra work.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
I gotta do all I got and I have the here's.
The big word is there have theresponsibility.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
I am now responsible for the other side, performing
and I think that that's thebeauty of the negotiation right
this lawsuit is seeking toeliminate.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Undermine right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
I honestly all of a sudden, if you're on the listing
side now and and and that guyshows up with no realtor, dude,
you got double theresponsibility.
You got now two horses in therace, right?
And I'm just horses have tofinish the race right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Better to just leave it to the parties to be able to
negotiate 100%.
But but in this fucking day andage where people just they
don't read, bro, they don't readand they don't want to read,
Mm-hmm, they don't want to read.
They literally teach you ineffective communication classes,
like via email, like theseleadership classes for CEOs and
big Department managers.
They teach you how to phrasethe emails and the memos and

(01:13:14):
shit that you put out to yourstaff so that it's like get it
all out in the first Sentence.
Yep, like if you make people goto the third paragraph break,
you lost them.
Bro.
They don't understand anymore.
They got to go back and reread.
I mean it's fucking insane.
What's going on?
People just, they just don'tread.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
They don't and they're, they're.
They're taught not to have anopinion.
They're taught to take and, andyou can't take someone else's.
I to me, the, the, the.
The issue always has been that,as a transaction broker, as
soon as I represent both sides,I have to take off my team
jersey and put on a referee'sjersey, and that actually go,
would have put it right there.
That harms my businesssignificantly because my

(01:13:52):
business model has always beentraded on that.
I look after my people.
I take care of my people on mywatch.
I'm not gonna let them make amistake.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
You should, it is.
It's just the other sides now,your people.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
I know it is, but then you know how you can't
fight for both sides.
I mean that inspection reportcomes in, I can't try to get my
people the extra 1500 from theother side.
You know I can't show, I try toearn my keep.
That's always been my, my ideaof how I run my business, which
is to show them I go get theextra little bit of money that
the other agents oh, we have anagreement, let's, let's, let's,

(01:14:22):
walk away.
I bring them extra.
They tell me they'll take 265.
I go get them 266, 5, right,jet, that extra 1500 is the
thing that gets me their loyaltygoing forward.
That's why they only personthey call, and so when I'm
actually doing both sides, itprecludes my ability to give the
kind of service that I like,which and let me tell you this
listen, I get that there'srealtors out there that that

(01:14:43):
Probably have no business beingin the business, but that's not
much that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
That's not very different from a Divorce
attorney handling a real estatereal estate transaction or a one
of those slip and fall guyshandling.
So you're, you're a hardcorereal estate guy.
You're in real estate everysingle day.
That's what you do.
I mean, you do some other stuff, but real estate is probably
90% of your world.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Yeah, kind of like I said what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
How much?
How much percentage of hisworld is 70%?

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
70.65%.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Right.
So, but then you get these guysthat you know, and that's when
you know it.
You know, I know, you've heardme say that you know.
And when we, when we argue, thedeal killers the deal killers.
And and listen, I've been, I'vebeen in the business full time
for 20 something years now,right, 23, 24 years or something
now.
And then you deal with anattorney.

(01:15:37):
That's an attorney, and theyshit all over your contract.
Yeah, and this guy's, this ishis first or second transaction,
but he's an attorney.
You're supposed to like, ohit's, he's an attorney, yeah,
and that's.
Well, you know, and those arethe things.
So there's no such thing there.
It's not a perfect business, no, right, and just like there's,
you know, realtors thatshouldn't be in the business.

(01:15:57):
There's also attorneys that Imean.
Shouldn't real estate attorneyshave to go through some sort of
real estate Certification?
That should they know thebasics of it, because they just
don't.
I mean, some of you know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
It's a great question in it.
I think it applies more to theyou know or, more broadly, to
the law in general.
So in law school we don't have,like you know, in, and I don't
know how it works in medicalschool, but Right, we call it
the practice of medicine and thepractice of law.
But you know, at least I thinkfor doctors in residency and

(01:16:29):
things like that like they kindof focus on something.
I think a little more.
They kind of do thesefellowships to focus on things
and it kind of it makes theirtime in school Incredibly long
and painful for them.
But you know we don't have thatso much.
So, like in law school, Ifocused primarily on on advocacy
type classes.
You know.
So, like when you had theopportunity to take electives, I

(01:16:50):
would take a lot of trial,advocacy based electives.
In my mind, that's what Iwanted to do.
I wanted to be in trial everyday.
I wanted to be in court.
I'm, you know now that's theopposite of where I want to be.
I'm a transactional lawyer,almost exclusive.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Is there one person that motivated you to get into
real estate?

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
It was me 100%.
Drag this guy by the little bitof hair he still had left and
forced them to get into realestate.
That's what he won't tell you.
No, that, that much is true.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
I didn't like it at the time.
I I didn't like it totallyagainst it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
Yeah, I didn't like it so, but what's funny is going
back to the, the lawyers, youknow they kind of have no
business doing the transactionsis Because I started my career
as a litigator and I litigatedfor a long time, more than 10
years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
I can detect right away when I'm involved on a
transaction with a lawyer who'snever been a litigator.
Primarily, it's very hard tofind a lawyer who's who's never
been in litigation.
He's only ever donetransactions that maybe at the
real big firms.
That that's more likely as ageneral premise Most lawyers
have.
They've been in a litigationfrom time to time, they've been

(01:18:06):
in court a few times and that so.
But but you can tell whensomeone has never been a
litigator, because they want tolitigate the Transaction, like
they come in and they come inand they come in and they come
in and they come in and theycome in and they come in and
they come in, like they come atit like if there's some
adversarial, like if thissomething like an adversarial
proceeding.
And I routinely have to tellthese people I'm like guys, we,
this is a non adversarialsetting.

(01:18:29):
In this setting we're allworking towards the same goal
they want to sell, we want tobuy like we just want to get to
closing.
Imagine being in a world in asetting where what the other
side wants is the expressopposite of what you want.
I mean that's horrible.
So I think that they come at itway more aggressively.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Yes, they don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
The non litigators are more aggressive in
transactions than the guys whohave suffered.
They've never been working theright or do some litigation,
because it's like man, this isfucking great.
Well, in fact, we're allowed toget along.
It's almost like only only theolder lawyers like get along
with the other side inlitigation.
Like you got to be a seasonedlawyer for that shit.
If you're a new lawyer, there'slike a rule if you have a

(01:19:13):
lawsuit against somebody else,the other lawyers just as bad as
the other client, you know, andso and that's how these young
lawyers are they want to fight.
Everything is fight.
We call them Rambo litigators.
Okay, they send you discoveryon Friday.
Okay, it's like, hey, friday at430, here's a fierce 30 fucking
questions.
I want it by five.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
You're like that's not how it's, it's, it's similar
to, it's similar to.
So I have two kids that play,come to completely different
sports, right.
So I have my daughter thatplays tennis right.
So all her tournaments arecountry clubs and this and that.
And then I got my son, who'sbeen fighting since he was four.
I mean you know like literallyit's either a jiu-jitsu match or
it's wrestling and everything.
Yeah, you rarely get into anyissues at rest with other

(01:19:51):
parents at wrestling matches.
It's very rare.
I mean you'll see it every oncein a while because a lot of
those people there have gottentheir ass kicked at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Now you want to think it over, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
You go to a tennis match and it's the they're.
I'm not a small guy.
You know like, no, because I'llsue you.
No, they come punch me, I'llsue you, they come.
I've had people approach mewhich doesn't happen in the real
world.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, like, they've up and gotit in my face.

(01:20:25):
You know like, like, justaggressively.
I'm like look at thesemotherfuckers.
They 've never, literally never.
They don't know what it feelslike they get punched in the
face.
They don't know what an asskicking feels like, and that's
why they live in a Differentworld.
That doesn't so it's, it'ssimilar to to what you're saying
there.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Yeah, but I mean again.
So you know, look, I've had thedispleasure of doing a few
divorces, for, like, dearfriends of mine, they got
divorced and then they, theyinsisted that the divorces would
be uncontested and that therewouldn't be any fighting.
And of course that never goesaway, it is.
But yeah, I mean, the older Iget, the less I'll go, you know,
outside my wheelhouse.
I mean, if you call me for adivorce, it there's like a

(01:21:04):
99.99999 percent that I'msending you when, in doubt, we
ask, you know a lawyer thatspecializes in family loan.
You know, I think again, I justthink that's what you want.
You know, it's like, if you needknee replacement surgery to go

(01:21:25):
to the dentist, yeah, I mean,it's probably not a great idea.
You know, like, could thedentist, if it were the end of
the fucking world and he werethe only doctor on the island,
could he cut your knee open?
And I mean, let's put it thisway, he's better equipped than
the next guy.
Yeah, okay, so between themortgage broker and the dentist,
who do you want performingsurgery on you if you're on a
desert, deserted island?

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
Well, I would say the dentist.
I'll put it in subset yeah, dowe have a?

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
chance.
Do we have a chance?
Because you know, look, I amone of the one of the very few
brokers that actually caresabout training.
Right, there's these hundredpercent companies that don't
train their people a lot.
Not only do we train, but wewalk them through.
There's always somebody therewith them at the beginning and
etc.
Etc.
You know and then we gotRichard that we call for stuff
all the time.
So we're, our realtors, are ina bubble where it's kind of hard

(01:22:11):
to fuck things up.
They have to completely go offthe rails.
But that's not not necessarilytrue for other realtors out
there, right?
I mean, I remember I had a Iwant a listing of mine and I had
a realtor Put in an offer, okay, where she confused the down
payment and I could tell by theway she wrote it.
She confused the down paymentwith the deposit, so it was a

(01:22:32):
$60,000 down payment, but sheput it at first deposit, right?
I remember I called, so youknow how many things could go
wrong that they lose that$60,000 deposit.
It was on a $200,000 townhouse,so it was it.
Was it no need to have 60 grandon deposit?
Aggressive?

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Showing that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
You can tell when that's the case when they're
showing commitment and you cantell when I call regular.
Listen to what I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Listen, I don't want you to come to my company
because I'm gonna.
You're gonna think that I'mgiving you advice Just cuz I'm
trying to recruit you.
As soon as you finish thistransaction here, get the fuck
out of there and run, run.
You have no idea the type ofmistake that you just made,
right now right.
You just opened up and you couldhave potentially lost.
So please, I am begging you, gosomewhere where they train you.

(01:23:21):
So my point is and I know thatI know a freck is different than
DBPR in the whole situation butis there anything we can do so
that the real estate class isNot a complete waste of fucking
time?
And it's actually the courseand the exams and everything
that they actually teach yousomething that addendums how to

(01:23:42):
write a con.
I mean just real life stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
It's it's.
It's Fascinating that youbrought that up true story at
Commission last week onWednesday.
Usually Tuesday's the day thatwe deal with applicants.
Okay, so if you're looking fora license and you have some
issue in your past, call it past.
Yeah, tuesdays we deal withthat.

(01:24:05):
Tuesdays we deal with education.
So if you, if you have a classthat you want to get Certified
for continuing education, we dothat.
Wednesday we do what's calledthe legal appearance doc.
So we get, like the edos, theescrow disbursement order
disputes.
So when the you know broker hasthe escrow and there's a dispute
about that.
And then we do like the legalcases where Licenses are being

(01:24:27):
brought up on.
They're being prosecuted forviolations of chapter 475 and
those include anything fromFailing to timely report a
conviction.
So that happens a lot.
You know the the rules requireyou to report any convictions
within 30 days.
Okay, so many times peopledon't do that.
The department finds out.
They prosecute you to, usuallya slap in the wrist the first

(01:24:48):
time.
You know you're failing toaccount and deliver.
You know you fraud type claims,things like that.
You make mistakes.
You put the escrow deposit inyour account.
You know things you shouldn'tdo, okay, and then at the end we
usually have public comment,new business, and sometimes we
open for rules, okay.
So so right now there's there'sa big push to improve the way

(01:25:12):
that we deal with multiplebroker Licenses.
Okay, because you got theseguys now that, like you know,
there's one guy's got like ahundred and seven licenses and
the Commission really hates that, okay, and so now we're looking
at how to improve that, theapplication form on that, so
that we can you know theCommission and the Department
gets more info that might beimportant, like if you've

(01:25:33):
suffered discipline in anotherjurisdiction or something like
that.
But then at the end, duringpublic comment, we had somebody
come up and say that we neededto do something about the
requirements to become alicensee, that we needed to
improve top down everything forwhat they teach, to the exam, to

(01:25:59):
everything else, because youknow like we have a lot of
agents that really shouldn't beagents.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
But it comes from.
They go to companies thatshouldn't be in business, but by
then it's too late.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
They're already licensed.
So I mean at that point Well,but they still have to be out
there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
So they have to go through a company.
So if you go to, you're a brandnew agent happens all the time
they go to these 100% commissioncompanies.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
What incentive does a 100% commission company have to
train an agent to do anything,but that's that unfortunate
Anything that unfortunately hasbeen the downward spiral,
qualitatively, of the industrySince we went from the days of
50-50 splits with brokers.
I mean, it used to be that theycould take and give you a test
on the legal parameters ofgetting and maintaining your

(01:26:41):
license, because that'sinformation that you're not
gonna get about the craft, andso that's the reason why that
test could be what it is, butit's all it is I understand
because they expected you toleave and go get trained in your
craft from this broker Right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
so it's an outdated thought.
They're working from the 1950s.
The thought of the 1950s wereactually very big.
Let me tell you what theresponse was.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
And here's the problem.
I jumped in, I echoed thesentiment right away, and so did
a couple of my fellowcommissioners.
But the problem is there's thisone guy and he's the man.
He's like the sage of thecommission right now.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
He's been on here a long time man.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
He represented the department.
I mean, he's been in that worldforever and his name's Randy
Schwartz.
He's a lawyer, he's an amazinghuman and he hears us all you
know it's like yeah you know,raw, raw.
Everything's gotta change.
It's a disaster, you know, andI even made what would be an
unpopular comment for peopledown here.
I said it's a farce that weoffer the exam in Spanish I go.

(01:27:39):
By the way, I'm a child ofCuban immigrants.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
No, no, I agree with this, so am I.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
The fact that you can take the exam in Spanish, to me
, is just a miscarriage ofjustice 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
And this is from a guy who was born in Cuba.
Yeah, absolutely 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Liberalism and equality run amok yeah yeah,
yeah.
Because you know what the formsare not in Spanish.
You're not gonna fight inSpanish.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
You're in the.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
United.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
States.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
You're gonna go to court in Spanish.
I mean, come on, guys, yougotta be able to take the test
in English.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
You gotta be able to protect the customers.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
In my view, in my view, I mean obviously that's
not the law you know we get inSpanish.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
No, but it's 100% agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
But it's ridiculous.
And so when we were allfinished, schwartz, who's like
you know, always comes in at theend.
He says All right, he's likeeverybody done, can I just say
something?
And I said, and we all lookdown and the chairwoman's like
yes, of course.
And he says that all soundsgreat, that's all beautiful, but
if we're not gonna get anyassistance from the Florida

(01:28:31):
Association of Realtors, we'regoing nowhere.
Okay, we can sit here and wecan cry about it all we want,
but if we don't have thelobbying and the support from
the industry, we're never gonnaget it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
But hold on, wait a second, cause I just thought of
something.
Right now we have a Frick, acommissioner already, or no,
yeah, I mean no chairman, vicechairman, vice chairman, okay.
And we got a gentleman whoteaches for the Florida and the
National Association of Realtors.
I mean, anybody could get itdone as you guys Now.

Speaker 3 (01:28:57):
I mean, you got to because you're messing with the
money.
Yeah, let's be honest, that'sthe problem.
I mean the reality of it is andI hate to say this, especially
in some place where it's gonnabe disseminated like this, but
the business model for the Right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
This is forever.
It is what it is.
I mean, especially with theseguys.
I got a list, like a fuckingscroll, of places where this guy
posted the idea.
It was almost like like that'sa lot of people hearing me say
shit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
The reality of it is.
I mean, the business model forthem is a numbers business.
They seem to be okay with the80%, or whatever it is attrition
rate every couple of years andthat turnover.
It's to make the tent as big asit can possibly be, bring as
many people in and, I guess,collect the revenue from it in
order to maintain their lobbying.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
But listen, the part timer, the part timer, okay,
somebody who.
This happens all the time.
They come in here and they havea nine to five and they're
basically just in here to, oh,invest in a real estate which
they never fucking do, right?
But now they have their cousin.
That is, this is my world.
They have their cousin who'sbuying and then they tell me hey

(01:30:03):
, since this is my cousin, can Iget a break on our split?
Yeah, I'm like, wait a second.
So this is your firsttransaction.
You don't know shit.
You don't know so much that youdon't even know what you don't
know, right?
Like that's the scary part.
I gotta work harder.
And you want me to give you abreak, right?
No, I actually have to know.
Forget about harder.
I gotta do the transaction foryou.

(01:30:26):
Yep, I have to do thetransaction for you, right,
because that's what happens.
So then, so that's me, becauseI care and I have an
infrastructure that's going towalk you through and it's going
to teach you in the wholesituation.
But, dude, there's thesecompanies out there.
They come with the cousin, thedeal oh, you're in a hundred, we
agree, we're in a hundredpercent split.
This is your responsibility,not mine.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
Figure it out.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
So now that person's out there putting in offers,
putting deposits, respecting thedates, my ass, forget about the
dates, forget about inspectionperiod, forget about financing
period, forget about any of thatstuff, and then people lose.
So that's the thing.
So, yeah, I understand as partof the business model.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
Huge commission pet peeve too.
Is that the department rare?
And when I say the department,I mean like the prosecutors.
Okay.
So like the commission dynamic,you should well, you've been
there, but you should come.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
I've been there for another reason.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do want togo back as a regular civilian.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
You should come because there's the dynamic the
commissioners sit in front ofthe room long-wise.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
What do you want?

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
next September, 12th, 13th, and then to the right of
the commission is like divisionstaff, so like the people that
work at the division of realestate, executive director and
those people.
And then on the left are thelawyers our lawyer and then the
government's lawyers, and thesepeople work for the Florida

(01:31:46):
Department of Business andProfessional Regulation and
they're the ones that file thecomplaints, they prosecute the
cases against licensees thatmake mistakes, and many of my,
and they're on the commission.
There are two industry membersand the rest of them I'm sorry,
two consumer members and therest are industry members.
So a consumer member is like meand shorts the other lawyer.

(01:32:08):
We're not licensees, so we'reconsumer members.
The rest of the commissionersare brokers typically, but
they're licensees, okay, and sothe other licensee members of
the commission.
They are annoyed.
It's a huge pet peeve of theirsthat they view as insufficient

(01:32:30):
broker accountability.
We almost never get the brokerin there with the agents.
So you get these agents thatare brought up on these.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
You know what?
100% I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
Horrific, horrific charges.

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
Where's the guy who's responsible to train you?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
yeah, and the brokers listen, never mind that they're
never charged.
Okay, which is what thesecommissioners feel they should
be that there should be moreprosecutions under, like the
broker supervisory.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
But about.
I work on the actions.
I work on the like.
Listen, this is myresponsibility.

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
Yeah, oh no, there's a and, so not only do we rarely
have cases where we're bringingin the broker okay, unless the
broker themselves is, you know,the part of the transaction, or
whatever the perpetrator let'scall it right or the alleged.
The respondent is what we callit in that setting.
They're not defendants they'rerespondents.
Okay, and so you know we had abig case this past meeting that

(01:33:25):
it's gonna be very interestingto see how it works out, but the
broker was there and so theVoluntarily yes yes.
And you know he's among thestate's very best.
I mean, he's a well-knownindividual and you know it's
refreshing to see the brokerthere and you could just tell
right away.
And, by the way, and I wastelling the, every Tuesday we
have dinner with the commissionand I was telling these you know

(01:33:49):
, my colleagues, that when I goup to Orlando it's super
refreshing to deal with theagents that come there and the
licensees that come to the room,like usually on day two for the
legal appearance docket.
Different offices fromdifferent parts of the state
will come in and many times theindividual or the
community-based realtorassociations will come in.

(01:34:11):
So you'll get Orlando.
They call it Aura.
You know they get Orlando inthere.
You get Daytona in there.
You get, you know, the Seacoastpeople and like, and so they
come in to watch and it's like abig deal.
They wanna come and they wannasee and the quality of agent
Once you cross theMiami-Dade-Broward line, like
the more north you go, the moreserious these people take the

(01:34:35):
business and I was talking tothem the other day and I was
saying I'd be willing to-.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
So we should set ourselves Florida from Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
No, listen, in some instances that would be good and
bad, but I'll tell you what.
And we can ask Cadillac for thestatistical probability of this
Cadillac, please.
But I would be willing to betthat 90% of the part-time agents
are in Miami-Dade County.
Yeah, you know, like, the morenorth you go, if you're a

(01:35:02):
licensee, if you're a realtor, asales associate or a broker,
that's more likely to be yourfull-time occupation.
That's what you do for a living.
You're respected as such, rightand down here.
It's like, you know, like theclassic Carlos Gutierrez story
that you love, the guy's gettinga haircut.
At the time he was thepresident Miami Association of
Realtors.
So he would tell you withinfive seconds of meeting you that

(01:35:23):
too, because he was very proudof it.
And he's getting a haircut andhe says that.
The barber says to him what doyou do?
And then he says I'm a realtorand the barber's like, oh, me
too, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:35):
So exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
I can't give you guys some stats on that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
Actually, if you want and this is something I do in
all the classes that I teach Igo all over the country and I
ask agents, not about part-timeagents.
I ask them what percentage ofagents would you say are bad
agents?
And so you would think you getinto the northern part of the
state.
You know these places wherepeople Wyoming Montana the
number I get, no matter where Igo, is the same 80% is what Bad

(01:36:01):
agents?
So four out of five agents thinkother agents are bad agents.
Which means because my pointalways is when you walk into the
room with a customer you're ata negative perception.
They have a bad perception ofreal estate agents in general.
So I've got to work my way outof that hole.
I've got to negotiate my wayout of that hole Same thing car
salesmen, lawyers.
Absolutely yeah.
Yeah, we're definitely at rightin the bottom, so I have to

(01:36:24):
before, but lawyers have to gothrough shit, but they have to
like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
I know, but they're just seen as fucking shitty
people.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
There's a couple of moving pieces to this right.
What's the training?
Typically, maybe not you guys,but what would they teach agents
?
Go in there and ask questions,ask open-ended questions.
Get them to be your friend.
I don't ask questions, I makeassumptions on the way in.
I make assumptions on the wayin because this is not my first
rodeo, so it's not my firstrodeo.
I know they're interested inthe market.

(01:36:50):
They want to know what's goingon right now.
They want to know what theoutlook is for what they're
getting ready to do.
I don't need to ask a bunch ofquestions, because before I ask
questions I want to make sureI've made the case that I
deserve the truth, and so thisis kind of the problem.
And this is another thing thatI talk about in the classes with
people to your point about howthe license is, and it doesn't
matter where I go, Even thestates where the licensure is

(01:37:10):
more complicated I say you go toclass, you take a test, you
pass the test, they hand you alicense, they smack in the
button, say go to the realestate, and you turn around and
you're like, but I don't knowhow, like you didn't show me how
to do it and you got to gofigure it out on your own Right.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
But it's also unfair of the state right, and I know
it's different, I know the freckis different than the DVR and
the state is different than butit's also unfair that you get
these guys out there.
You get the barber right andyou get them out there and you
get them licensed.
Then they go to 100% company,then they put in an offer and
they lose the client's depositand now they're there to lose

(01:37:48):
their license and then it's alltheir fault.
I mean, I agree with the systemand I hate to agree on.
I think it's everybody'sresponsibility and I get that.
But man, it is a broken system.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
It is very much a broken system and unfortunately
the financial incentive is notlined up with those that have
political power.
So when I make these,recruiting calls.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
So when I make these recruiting calls I have a rule
of thumb, right.
If the first question they askme on the phone is what my
commission split is, click, bye,bye.
And it's hard to do thatbecause you're like fuck, you
know, maybe they could sell andyou're kind of throwing away
money.
But if you're not asking who's,how's the training, when is the
training, who's training me andwhat support do I have to

(01:38:31):
support that training, dude,you're just.
If all you care about isgetting 100% commission man, go
ahead, don't come here.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
And that's the thing that blows my mind.
Right, People spend a weekgetting this license.
Let's call it a seven days.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
I spent a couple months, six days a week, taking
the class right.

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
It is what it is, and then they're so unwilling to in
any way take the two scarceresources of life, or time and
money, and invest it back in.
You talk about going to get alaw degree.
What was the cost of that?
And people are more thanwilling to go to college.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
As soon as he reminds me every day, Constantly right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
It's a thing right, you spend this money to take and
go get a degree in business orwhatever, and then you want to
put a job that has nothing to dowith it on the back end side,
but you're okay with spendingall that money to get that
degree, whereas you're actuallyin the industry where you're
making money today and you won'ttake and spend the time or
money to take and get trained tolearn what the hell you're
doing.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
Okay, so can we at least make the continuing
education within six months andadd actual shit there, Like real
content you know.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Well, I'll say that, right, maybe that's a solution.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
The cash register's still ringing.
You don't think there's asolution, Richard?
I send a shout out to thepeople I mean no, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
I think that the solution is the same one.
There is to like a lot of theworld's problems, like you need
a massive purge, like eight ofevery 10 needs to just be
vanished, and then you can takea small population and kind of
and fix the rest.
I mean you can't, like you know, these massive changes, it's
just too much inertia.
It's like trying to turn acruise ship is going fucking

(01:39:58):
downhill, you know, I mean it'sjust not again.
The incentive's not there.
And that's why, when Schwartzsaid that I mean I could tell my
balloon flew away, I was like,oh, I guess we're fucked.
I guess we're never you know,because, like they're not and,
by the way, the lawyer for theFlorida associations of realtors
was there she's usually thereon day two.
You know, she comes to watch,especially when we have rules,
when we're opening up a ruleworkshops, which, like we're

(01:40:21):
doing now, they come in andthey're very there.
They give their opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Okay, they want to give language.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
They want to do all these things.
And Schwartz said it and youknow she turned and she gave the
perfect lawyer answer.
She's like obviously I'm notauthorized to agree or even
comment on the matter, but hey,I'll take it back to the powers
that be and we're like, it'slike the emperor going, yeah,

(01:40:48):
done.
So I mean it's tough, but I meanagain, it's, in my view, the
good and the bad of it.
By the way, same thing happenswith lawyers.
Okay, like I mean I know it'shard because you got to go to
law school and you got to takethe bar exam, but I mean again,
you and I know some lawyers thatit's like how is this possible?

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
Yeah.
And so what happens is thatunfortunately Do I name your
names or you know, no, I'll getyou a throw up.
I want to get me a throw up,don't help me bro, I don't need
any help.

Speaker 3 (01:41:16):
I think there's a kind of a yay and nay to all of
this, in the sense that I wasvery lucky and I want to take
and send a shout out to a guythat was very helpful in my
career.
The guy that gave me my postlicense was a gentleman named
Rick Burch who's been with MiamiAssociation Humanary Absolutely
.
And super, super cool guy, buthe had this dictated class that

(01:41:37):
he had to do, but it was theextra stuff that he put in there
.
I can never forget running withthe big dogs how to actually do
this business the right way.
Like the extra supplementalstuff.
That's the stuff that actuallymattered and the value.
And the problem winds up beingthat that's not part of the
actual curriculum and I don'tknow how it hurts the
association of realtors for thatpart of it to be in.

(01:41:59):
Like I get, there's a bandwidthlimitation, right, and that's
the big thing.
Like when I started in realestate I try to keep this front
of mind when I came in, I wasoverwhelmed by all the things
that I needed to learn.
You know like, all right,there's the MLS, there's the
contract, there's listingagreement, and like it doesn't
seem like a lot, but it'sgetting all dumped on you and
you need to be good at thisright away or you really can't

(01:42:20):
do this business.
And so it took two or threemonths.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Unless you're in Dade County, Unless you're in Dade
which.

Speaker 1 (01:42:25):
I was Well co-trayer, hey, you know what.
But, richard, you know what?
Listen in summary, because wegotta end it up.
We've been like an hour and ahalf earlier, an hour and 15.
But listen, the maybe, maybeforcing the brokers to show up
every time there's a fuckingissue.
That's the way you startgetting these guys to actually
put, because I tell you what.
Start taking a tally on howmany of the people that show up

(01:42:45):
are from these 100% commissioncompanies.
Start taking a mental tally.

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
Oh no we hate, and, by the way, again the industry
members, especially becausethey're much more versed in like
these dynamics but, they hateteam advertising.
They hate like the teamconcepts.
They hate.
Hate is a strong word.
They are displeased, they'redispleased with the state of the
industry with these things.
Lack of boner, boner.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
The lack of boner is probably not a the lack of boner
is not a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
The lack of broker accountability big problem.
The 100% commission companies,you know.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
I think even if you just were to make it that they
had to come, the inconveniencefactor would take and increase.

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
I agree, I think that's the way.
I think that's the way Becauseif you got and all of a sudden
you're there three times rightand you start recognizing
there's an issue there, oh yeah,now it's not the agent's fault,
you know what I mean.
It's the broker's fault.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
So all right guys, I think you should come next time.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
I am, I am, I really am, I really am, I'm, really am,
I'm definitely.
It'd be good to show up as aguy who's not there begging for
his license.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
The security guard is my friend.
I will have you escort him ifyou refrain from that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
Yeah, so you guys know.
So you're in on the joke.
I, when I first got my license,I had a little I was a colorful
past a little couple ofmarijuana charges and stuff like
that, so I had to go and begthe commission.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
But nowadays we don't even give a shit about that.
We see marijuana and we're like, oh, he's approved yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
Yeah, did I tell you the story on?
We'll end it with this.
So I get there, I get deniedfor my first time, right?
So I, you know, I present mycase and you know I was 20 or 19
or something and they're likewell, denied and then Denied for
license or broker For licensure, right Back then it was a
serious marijuana.
Yeah, yeah, and I hadcultivation, so it was like a

(01:44:36):
little.
It was a little different right.
So so I go in.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
I go in the second time, the second time, the
second time.
He's an agronomist, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:43):
Agricultural exploits Actually on the newspaper
article.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
When I got caught doing it, I said Jesus was using
his green thumb for somethingother something other than
growing roses.
I have that article somewhere.
So then I go the second timeand I'm like dude, this is I
remember.
So I I the real estate since Igot a high school.
It's all I really wanted to do.
So it's not like I wanted totry and this is it.
So it was like dude, this isn'tmy stopping my life, I needed

(01:45:10):
to get this license.
So I get through.
The second time it was like sixmonths later.
I couldn't go.
I had to wait like six months.
And I go the second time and Iplead my case and this and that,
and they're like, and they'relike they're for the vote and
they're like no, you know, nay,or I'm like whoa, no, no, no, no
, no, no.
I literally said like no, no, no, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys.
Listen, this is as good as Iget, like I'm not.

(01:45:32):
You stopping this for anotheryear is not going to do anything
.
This is it Like.
This is like I'm begging you,like you know, dude.
They all start laughing Likelike uncontrolled, and they're
like all right, you got it, likeit wasn't even purposely done,
like, bro, this is this, is itLike nothing.
The story gets better than this, though.
Oh, the second time.
Yeah, because yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:45:51):
yeah, no, no, no, no, no, because so no, but now
finished.
So then Jesus now is going togo to become a broker?

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
OK, but then I got a shit on your partner and by then
no, it doesn't matter oh no, Ido.
I don't have to say anything,but I have to say it's your
partner.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
So so we he's now going to be a broker, ok, and
I'll never forget that he wantsme to review his application,
like that he's going to submit,and he wants me to review it, of
course, yesterday, ok, but theday he's emailing it to me I
happen to be in Disney, dude,with my family.
You know, it was just my wifeat the time, you know.

(01:46:23):
So I like didn't want to do itright then and there nor could
it be submitted, it was like aSaturday, ok.
So I'm like, dude, why don'tyou just wait for me to get back
to the office on Monday?
I'll take care of about no fuckthat.
He didn't like that answer.
So he calls my, my former lawpartner.
And there was, there's aquestion.
It's question number one.
It's a question number one onthe application.
And it's amazing, and it's likehave you ever been convicted,

(01:46:48):
arrested of a crime, this andthis and that?
And it's like.
And then it tells you, likethat, so that's you must
disclose whether you played out,whether it's that, whether
you've been pardoned by thepresident of the United States,
you must still disclose.
Ok, jesus talks to my formerpartner and somehow they arrive,

(01:47:12):
despite that language, that theright answer was not to
disclose was not to disclosethat he, his prior convictions.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
Never mind that I also already went through it.
It's already been disclosed.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
There was no new ones , even if you've been pardoned
by the president, was notsufficiently clear, and this
goes back to what we weretalking about earlier.
Sometimes you just can't removethe ambiguity enough.
Sometimes there's there's noway to fix it, ok.
And so this guy says no, and ofcourse he gets brought up for

(01:47:48):
hearing and he's got to have ahearing.
Is that because we've now foundthe non-disclosures?
You go with him?
No, are you crazy?
No, no one did.
Oh, I went and I figured it out.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
No one did.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
I tried to get you to hire my other friend.

Speaker 1 (01:47:59):
I got a quarter to ten grand.
That's why you hate him, right,yeah, right, that's why you
hate him.
And then I went and did itmyself and I got to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
So so he goes and he doesn't hate himself and but
what's funny about this is thatwhen he goes up there and they
they're giving him the thirddegree about hey, you know how
come you didn't disclose this,isn't that he tells the story?
And again, I would have lovedto have for this, because we get
some colorful characters upthere.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
but I could just imagine this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
He was like you know, I spoke to my lawyer, I spoke
to one of my lawyers and the guysaid you have to disclose it.
He even pointed out even thoughyou, even if you've been
pardoned by the president of theUnited States.
But I spoke to the other lawyerand he was like no, you don't
have to disclose it.
I like that answer better.
So I went with that one andfuck, here I am.

(01:48:42):
So I mean, I fucked up.
What do you want me to?

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
do, and you ended up getting it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
I ended up getting it .

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
Yeah, but I'm definitely going to the next one
.
All right guys, all right,another episode.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
Good times.
Anything else In the book.
Next time we move togetherit'll be thirty four.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
Yes, just see, just so you know Thirty.
I remember that because this isLarry Bird.
At thirty three, larry Bird wason my shoes down.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
All right, I got to go back to work.
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
All right guys.

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Diving Deep into the Complexities of Property Ownership and Laws / Episode 33

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