EP 41: Daniel Hazan the NBA's youngest jewish Agent

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know you got to help.
You got to help him or you?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
That's fucking crazy.
We're flipping between theYankees game the first summer
league and the Sixers areplaying Right and I put it on
and Pierre Jackson tears hisAchilles.
I'm like, oh my God, yeah, Ishould reach out.
I'm like, should I reach out?

Speaker 1 (00:17):
are you ready to go?

(00:41):
Yeah, ready, all right, danielHazan, all right, I pronounced
the last name correctly.
Yes, sir, all right, cool man.
So I've heard a lot about youfrom Ethan.
How'd you Were you born inMiami?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, I was actually born in New York, okay, but I
moved here during COVID.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh really, yes, so you're one of the ones that
moved during COVID.
That's awesome.
You got fed up over there.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, you know, just business, you know took me here.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Right, because Florida, for what you do?
Is it a hub, Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
the right place to be .
Yeah, like all my training ishere.
Like clients love being here.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Right, and you do mostly NBA, only NBA, only NBA.
Yeah, okay, how'd you get intoit?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's a long story.
Yeah, it's a very long story,but it starts when I was you
played basketball, or you know Iplayed, but you know five foot
seven you know, jewish boy youknow, the chances were very slim
of being a professionalbasketball player in the NBA, so
the closest thing to living outmy dream in that way was to

(01:50):
represent them Right.
But I started when I was 18years old.
In college you studied sportsmanagement or something.
No, I was in business school atthe time at Yeshiva University
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
What's the name of the university?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
yeshiva university.
Um, right, and what's the nameof university?
Yeshiva?
So it's a jewish jewish.
Jewish, yeah, jewish, uh,private school in washington
heights, new york.
Okay, um, but yeah, you know, Iwas.
I was 18 years old at the time,uh, in business school, and I
started my own advertisingbusiness out of my dorm room in
college and then landed on sharktank oh shit yeah and um, you

(02:27):
know, didn't get it, didn't getan investment out of it.
But uh, what was the product?
It was investment.
Uh, it was advertisements oncoffee cups.
So, uh, you know, 2000 cafesaround the new york area would
get uh coffee cups with ads onit, right, uh, for free and um
you know so you would.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
You would hand over the coffee cups to the coffee
shops.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
We had contracts with , you know the, the mom and pop,
and nobody picked that up.
That sounds like a superinteresting.
Yeah, it's a super interestingidea.
But you know, the reason why Iwasn't attractive to the sharks
on shark tank was, um, you know,because it couldn't, you know,
it couldn't, uh, be, uh,copyright protected, um, you
know.
So it was very easy toreplicate that and they felt
that, you know, the biggercompanies would be able to, you

(03:10):
know, do it on a much largerscale than me.
But you know, we signed thesecoffee stores to you know
contracts and you know we wereproviding them with their cups
and every month would bedifferent brands on it.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, it's funny about advertising.
So you you know, obviously, tobe in real estate.
There is no choice.
You have to figure out themarketing part.
I mean that's it's everythingreally, it's what's 90 of the
business, almost.
So I remember, um, recruitingis a big part of my business.
The more agents I have, moremoney I make you know, basically
, right, there's a lot more toit.
But yeah, um, so, man, I was, Iwas sending out mail outs to to

(03:47):
agents, right?
So like, hey, come, come joinmy company.
And you know, I calculated oneday, man, by the time I get the
the envelope had to do reallynice envelope.
By the time I print everythingout, it's a fucking dollar right
so I'm like why don't I just doa simple envelope and I just
send them an actual crisp dollarand and say just a simple note,
this is the first dollar you'regoing to make with my company.

(04:08):
I'm like, man, that's thefucking best idea I ever had in
my life.
Like for sure it's going towork.
I didn't get anybody out of it.
So marketing is weird like that, and sometimes the idea you're
not really paying too muchattention to is the one that
takes off.
You know what I mean.
You're not really paying toomuch attention to is the one
that is the one that takes off.

(04:29):
So, so, so you and business hasalways been something you know
that's promoted by your family.
How does that work?
Cause I always talk to Ethanabout, like I'm fascinated by
the Jewish culture, yeah Right,fascinated by, by.
You know just the fact that youknow education business is is
promoted, is promoted from ayoung age.
Right, it starts at what age?
So at what age were youpresented?

(04:50):
All right, well, you know, sellthis.
Or you know the concepts ofbusiness, like, when does that
start?

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, yeah, I mean it's interesting because you
know everyone tells me like wedon't know, like, where you came
from because I'm so differentfrom my parents.
You know my tells me like wedon't know, like, where you came
from because I'm so differentfrom my parents.
You know my mom never worked.
You know my mom was born inIsrael.
My dad was born in Morocco.
Okay, you know my dad was.
You know he had to work threejobs to, you know, to support us

(05:18):
.
But you know we never felt like, you know, we were ever missing
anything.
You know I grew up in manhattanmy whole life, yeah, but you
know we, we went to.
You know I'd go to temple.
My dad was the cantor of the ofthe synagogue and you know you
go to temple every week and youknow we went to the moroccan
synagogue and I gotta tell you,you know there's a lot of money
in there you know a lot of money, a lot of wealth, a lot of

(05:38):
billionaires.
Right, regular guys, you don'teven walk around, walking around
, walking around.
But with you go to Temple andthis guy raises his hand I'll
give $30,000.
I'll donate $30,000.
This guy, I'll donate $50,000.
And every week these guys arecoming in and they're just
giving and giving and giving.
And I was like, okay, this guy'sgiving and he's wearing that

(06:00):
Hermes belt, okay, I'm trying tobe like that one day.
I want to be that guy that'sable to give back to the
community.
So that already sparked my youknow my interest.
And you know, once I got tohigh school I just I started,
you know, I opened up my own hotdog stand.
It was called Hazan's Weenies.
I used to sell hot dogs.
I used to sell hot dogs duringthe hockey games and I used to

(06:25):
sell tickets to go to the firstunder-18 clubs.
I was selling tickets to Knickgames.
I was selling memorabilia.
I was just trying to alwaysfigure out a way to hustle.
I was teaching kids Hebrew.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
So that was just always like it was in you.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
But my mom's priority for me was always education and
that's why you know like I.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I pursued, you know, business school and then law
school it's funny because, youknow, I guess it's very similar
in my case too, where, where, um, you know, I just always, you
know, I play basketball my wholelife, right, um, you know, I, I
later on transition, my love ismartial arts and, and you know,
and you know, and, and MMA, andall that stuff like that.
But my, my whole childhood wasjust basketball, basketball.

(07:09):
So at that point, a kid fromthe trailer park, you know, we
came into this country on ashrimp boat, you know what I
mean and and grew up extremelypoor, and you know, at that
point it was like, oh well,basketball is going to be the
thing, but the second, I mean Ijust wanted to have more Like, I
wanted to have just, you knowwhat I wanted.
You know what I mean, I, I andmy parents did a really good job
of of like, not putting limitson, like, hey, you could.

(07:31):
They always told me you coulddo whatever you want.
But, um, it's, it's, uh, andyou know from what I'm, from
what I'm gathering, in your caseit was like the culture, it was
the environment you were in,you were, like man, these, these
guys could do it.
Yeah, right, like, like, I cando it, you know, so it uh, yeah,
it's, it's interesting man.
So but as far as in your, inyour household business wasn't

(07:53):
really promoted, it was, it wasjust something that that was,
that was no, but it was always,but it was always always around
me, right so?

Speaker 2 (08:00):
yeah you know that that was.
You know that was a priority.
I mean, like you know, for myparents, you know, being a first
generation american, you knowthat was a priority.
I mean, like you know, for myparents, you know, being a first
generation American, you knowjust coming to America in itself
is, you know, is, is is asuccess.
But you know my, my parentsweren't really driven in the
sense of, like you know, moneywas, was at all like a priority
you know, so for for me, it wasjust something that you know I

(08:22):
was.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
I guess it was innate in me you know, and with the
whole basketball and agent thingit was, it was like, well, your
love of business and your loveof basketball kind of came
together.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know like I sold my, my, my
advertising business, you knowto CEO of Dun Bradstreet and and
I was kind of you know I was 19years old, you know having
invested every second you know,the last two years into a
business.
And then you know, now thebusiness is not in my control
anymore and I have nothing to dowith it.
So what do I do now?

(08:53):
You know, I just felt empty,Like do I just go back to being
a kid again, Like, and I justwasn't willing to accept that.
So I started.
I was like you know what?
I'm going to become an agent,but I didn't finish college yet,
so I wasn't able to becertified.
So I had to think of a creativeway to force the NBA to give me

(09:14):
certification and put them in aposition where I had to get
certification.
So I started signing playersthat I thought were good.
They were ultimately really bad.
And then I went to the nba andsaid, listen, I have five, five
or seven players that you knoware represented by me.
I need to become certified.
so, uh, they said that the wayit works, you gotta you have to

(09:34):
go to the nba and get certifiedthat no, the rules are different
, but at the time, you know, youhad to have a college degree
and you had to show that youhave negotiated so um so, not
just some joe schmoe comes fromthe street, or no yeah.
So I mean, uh, that makes sense.
At the time, jay-z and I werethe only agents that uh never
finished uh college when theygot their their nba license.

(09:55):
Um, I just, you know, I soldthe league on the fact that you
know you got to make sure theseplayers have, you know, you know
, legal uh representation and Ineeded to be certified.
And I also sold them on thefact that I was able to sell my
business to you know, sure sayI'm a businessman yeah, I'm
gonna be able to do.
I'm gonna be able to do a goodjob for these guys I signed my
first plan when I was 20 yearsold I'm the youngest to ever do

(10:16):
it.
That's great.
And um, youngest agent everyoungest agent ever to ever sign
play in the nba.
Super cool man, yeah, that yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
That's awesome, but tell me a little bit about, I
mean, what side of the road areyou on?
As far as Nils is concerned,I'm assuming I know the answer,
but, like the NIL stuff, likewhat do you think that's going
to do for sports?
I mean, where do you fall inline as far as that?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's a great question .
You'll actually be surprised.
I'm happy for the players, butin the long run I don't think
it's good for the players why?
Because you see a lot ofplayers that are earning a lot
of money now and it's forcingthem to stay in college and
they're only looking at theshort-term money that they're
receiving now.
But at the end of the day, theyfinished their college career

(11:00):
and you were making $100,000,$200,000, $1 million in college
and now you have to start yourprofessional career and you
might be making $100,000 a year.
So you know.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
So they're more valuable in college than
professional.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Correct.
Yes, because at the end of theday, you have thousands of
athletes that are supported byreally wealthy colleges that
have a ton of money.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
The donors are overpaying.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
the donors are are overpaying, right they're
overpaying right because they'rebecause they're trying to put a
monster team together andthey're making a ton of money.
Right, they're actuallyprofitable.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
So it's a step.
The nba in some cases now it'llbe a step down.
It's not a step you.
You said, you said the nbaright oh imagine you have 6 000
athletes and only 60 make it tothe nba we're talking about all
over the world the one percentis good right but everywhere
else around the world.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know if you're playing in the nba g league,
you're making 35 000 a year andthen if you're going to these
teams in europe or anywherearound the world, these are
non-profitable organizationsthat are run by, you know,
wealthy individuals and theirbudgets are nowhere near a
profitable.
College got it.
So you know kids are staying inlonger when they should be
coming out and starting theprofessional career because that

(12:11):
in that in the long term, isactually better for them.
But they stay because they havethe short-term money that's
coming in from colleges, and soI'm happy that the athletes are
making money.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
But at the end of the day, a lot of kids are making
wrong decisions, aren't and arebeing misled because of the
short-term dollar and and in thelong run it hurts them yeah, so
, yeah, so I've, I've been likeI said, I I basketball is my
love, you know, growing up anduh and I, you know I transferred
my love to to mma, but you knowI've been.
You know, youtube kind of getsyou into things a little bit.

(12:39):
It starts getting in youralgorithm and you start seeing
stuff.
One thing I've noticed is thatthe, the amount of european
players now I mean it'sdrastically higher than it was
it was before.
Is it's?
Is it fair to say the?
Uh, the?
I mean the europeans are takingover the nba?
I mean, is it?
Is it?
Are we?
Are we there yet?
Can we say that?

Speaker 2 (12:58):
or well, I mean, uh, you know they're.
You know, the last time a usplayer has won mvp in the nba
was in 2017 with james harden.
So the last seven mvps in thenba, you know, have been, um,
you know, non-american players,um, it just just comes to show
the growth of the nba and thenba has done a fantastic job of
really making it a global sportand um you know, but is it also

(13:20):
the culture here?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
as far as um, maybe europeans are more drilling and
less playing?
Uh, you know, something likethat is there.
Is there any?
Any of that?
Any that's happening, do youthink?
Or?

Speaker 2 (13:32):
no, I mean just at the end of the day, like there's
talent all over the world,right, and it's impossible to
think that you know the unitedstates, the only place where
there's talent.
The only thing is that thesport has grown and, as a as a
result of the sport growing, nowkids are starting to play the
game and are playing at a youngage, and now you're starting to
see players that are coming out.
Obviously you know the europeanum, you know talent and and the

(13:55):
style of play.
You know they're very big onplaying the game the right way.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Um, more fundamental, a lot, a lot more fundamentals
but don't they spend more timealso worrying about the
fundamentals Instead of jumpinginto an AAU league and playing
1,000 games a year?
That has to do something withit.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It's the style more than anything else, right?
Because the NBA and AAU and allthat stuff, it's all ISO, it's
all based off of pure talent,pure capabilities, versus in
Europe.
There's a system and there's astyle and that style overall
just brings to a higher level ofiq and and, um, you know,

(14:34):
overall better success once youknow they reach the high levels.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Interesting um, tell me a little bit about what's
your, what's your thoughts on,on what's going on in Israel
right now.
Is that something you're goodwith talking about?

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, I'm Israeli-American and you know,
just 48 hours ago, you know,there was, you know, 10 drones
that hit my, you know, the citywhere all my family lives.
You know, I'll just say thisyou know it's a really
unfortunate situation for bothsides.
Um, you know, I'll just saythis.
You know it's a reallyunfortunate situation for both
sides.
Um, you know, no one wants tosee any innocent people, you

(15:09):
know, being in harm's way.
Um, you know, I remember in2006, during the, you know,
lebanon israel war, you know Iwas, you know, hidden under
bunkers myself.
You know, I spent my wholesummer in, in bunkers, the whole
time.
And I remember, at a young ageyou know how long was that 2006,
so 18 years ago I was, you knowabout like what, is that 14

(15:29):
years old or whatever it is?
Yeah, like you know I'm sorryto say it's not a podcast, but
like you know, I I this is apodcast.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
You can say whatever you want, so please, you know I
shat my pants from being sonervous.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, you know you, when literally, literally.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
You know just from from.
You know hearing the boom thatthat whole saying oh I shit my
pants.
That's like an actual thing,like people piss and shit
themselves when they'reabsolutely when they're when
they're extremely scared, that'slike a thing I mean.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
So you know, saying that I mean that those are like
you know, those are traumaticexperience.
That was a traumatic experiencefor me, that, like you know, um
, you don't really know whatit's like until you're actually
in in that kind of situation andright when you're more certain,
you're more sure that you'regonna die than you're gonna live
.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, exactly right, and you find yourself almost
almost there.
You know what I mean?
I had a similar situationnowhere near in comparison, but
I'm a pilot.
So, um, dude, I flew into a, astorm, one time and, uh, man, I
was positive, I was gonna die,right like it was.
Just like I.
It was one.
I literally got off the planeand I kissed the ground because
I, when I flew into it, it wasopen.

(16:33):
And then here in florida, thesestorms kind of close, you know,
pretty fast.
So all of a sudden, I'm in adonut, I'm in the middle, it's
flying, it.
You know, nowadays, with thesegps's and shit, it's a fucking
video game.
So, you're, it's a little planeand it was all the weather
around me.
I'm in a circle and I had tofly.
I had no choice, I had to, hadto fly through the, through the

(16:53):
storm, and dude, it was.
If you know, not everybody hasfelt it's almost it's weird to
say, um, but you feel more alivethan you've ever, even though
you're think you're gonna die.
You feel more alive than you'veever, even though you're think
you're gonna die.
You feel more alive than you'veever.
Like it's like my god, I'm, I'mjust happy to be alive.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, it's a weird feeling, you know your level of
engagement is just so high inthose moments, yeah adrenaline's
pumping your mind is clear.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
You're thinking of every detail.
You turn into somebody else.
Really, you know the focus isthere in the whole situation.
So, um, why do you think so?
What, what?
What is it in the culture, inthe, in the, in the jewish
culture, that I think what?
Last time I checked, 44 ofbillionaires are jewish.
What, what is it?
And what do you?

(17:38):
What do you think it is?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
yeah, yeah, I mean I it's a great question and I get
it.
You know really.
You know really often it startsnumber one with keeping
everything within the culture.
Yeah, you know, at the end ofthe day, if I'm getting a
haircut, he's going to be jewish, right?
You know if I'm if.
A lot of times, you know, ifyou own a company, you're going
to hire your employees.
If you're going throughfinancial crisis, you're gonna,

(18:02):
you're gonna find someone in thecommunity to help you.
If, if, if you're going todonate, you're going to donate
within the community, right.
You know when, when you'resuccessful, you're revered.
You know it's just acamaraderie as a unit, because
we've gone through so much as as, as as a, as a as a people, for
thousands of years, forthousands of years that you know

(18:24):
we are just going to keepeverything within.
And so when the money is within, you know throughout, it's just
, it allows for a lot moregrowth.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
And when you're a lot more frugal, because I also
think it comes from that culturecomes from thousands of years,
because you're saving your money, because you don't know when
you're going to have to leaveRight and go somewhere else.
You don't know when you'regoing to have to leave right and
go somewhere else, and and and,uh, you know it's, it's, uh,
you know, I think it definitelythe, the whole culture has been
from thousands of years of of ofjust having to go from place to

(18:53):
place and being persecuted forthis and and and chased for that
and and and killed and and andthe whole situation.
So it's, it's an interesting, Imean it's, it's, it's what Jews
are right now Less than 10% ofthe population, or less than 5%
of the population.
0.001.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
No, I was way lower, or 0.002.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
And 44% of the billionaires.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, we're really talking about, you know, 20
million.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Jews around the world .
Around the world.
Yeah, I was just thinkingUnited States, right?
No, we're talking about theworld around the world.
Yeah, I was just thinkingunited states, right?
No time about the world.
Yeah, yeah, so and and so, yeah, the culture is save money.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Uh, not really flashy , right, you're, you're, you're,
you're probably a littledifferent because you're in a
business where you gotta be alittle flashy right, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
So, but in general you know, driving regular cars
dressing, regular flashyflashiness is really look down
on uh yeah, you know, depends onthe community.
But right, you know in general,yeah, it's just not.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
It's just not what we're about.
Yeah, no, yeah, you know,because when you start being
flashy, that's when you startdrawing attention, that's when
you, you know, that's when you,when we always had problems
right, correct, right as aculture as a culture just under,
just stay out under the radar.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Stay out of the way.
Stay out of the way, don't makeany noise, and that's just
thousands and thousands of years, and I also think it's like
thousands of years of um, youknow, I don't know country a,
country b, you know both, both.
You know areas, get both youknow, areas get attacked for X,
y reason.
Now this, this particular womanmeets this particular man, you

(20:32):
know, got away Right Selective,you know, and and they have a
kid.
So it's the craftier, smarter,you know for thousands and
thousands of years.
Am I crazy thinking that too, Imean, I mean, I mean that that?

Speaker 2 (20:43):
that's no, I mean, I mean that.
That that's what it really.
You know, that's what it reallywas.
I mean, you know, for you knowthe jews in morocco.
You know, because I'm, you know, I'm 100 percent, uh, moroccan.
All four of my grandparents arefrom morocco.
You know, it's a littledifferent in morocco.
Morocco was, um, you know, thethe king loved the jews.
The closest people to the kingwere all jewish.

(21:04):
All his advisors are jewish,now, even the current king of
morocco.
Now, um, he put the ghetto, thejewish community attached to
his palace, in every, in every,uh, in every city.
So the king has a palace inevery city and the jewish ghetto
was always connected to uh.
He always wanted to keep thejews close to him, right?
He felt that was reallyimportant.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Um, even the previous king, I kind of do the same
thing in areas I move intobecause I know if the jews are
there, I don't got to worryabout shit.
Things get taken care of.
The compound I don't got okay.
If that's broken, somebody'sgonna complain about that.
I don't got to worry about soI've lived in ball harbor.
I've lived in pinecrest.
I've lived in palmetto bay.
Believe it or not, it's a tonof jews there too.
So it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, so um the king always protected the, the, the
jews, um, but you know, the jews, you know, at a certain point,
like over the last 50 years,felt like, you know, it was not
the place for them to be, andright, and now they all moved
out.
So right, um, you know, that'sjust how you're talking about
the king of morocco inparticular specifically, just
because you know that's where myfamily's from, so you know I'm

(22:05):
informed on that.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right.
Well, what's your goals in thebusiness?
I mean, is it based on topathletes, the most amount of
athletes?
How does that work Like?
What are the goals?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
You know, I mean you know it's quality over quantity,
right.
You know, when you start.
You know it's interesting howyou know when, when you start,
when you start, you know it'sinteresting how you know, over
the 12 years that I've been anagent, how you know my goals and
and the process of success haschanged you start adapting, you
know you.
You know your pitch startschanging too.
You know, at the beginning itwas like I'm the young guy, I'm
the hungry guy, I'm gonna workthe hardest.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know we're the same age like let me say it has
to have, has to have.
I don't care how much, howsmart you are.
It must have been extremelydifficult to sell yourself as a
fucking 20 year old.
Oh yeah, it was I mean it wasbecause in my business it was.
It was extremely difficult andit's nowhere now you're dealing
with, you know, tons of money.
I was just trying to sell ahouse, right, you know, at 1920.
So it's, it's has to have beenextremely yeah it was extremely

(23:02):
difficult.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
I mean it's.
You know, you go through thosemoments where you're ready to
throw your hands up and just belike you know what do I have to
do?
Um, and there's so many playersthat are in the nba now that
knew me when I was 20 years oldand I was recruiting them and
and you know, it's just, youknow it didn't work out,
obviously.
How old are you now?
I'm 32, 32.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Um so you've been doing this 12 years yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
So it's interesting how everything adapts and you go
from just being that guy that'slike, hey, I'm hungry, I'll
work the hardest, I'll do X, yand Z and you're just trying to
accumulate players.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, but you don't have any clients.
Exactly that's why I'm going towork the hardest for you.
I want to wake up in themorning.
You're my only focus.
You haven't done that partfirst.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, but you haven't done shit like who are you like
you don't get to?
You make it.
You can't even get like, likeI'll never forget it, like I had
one person who's the guy whogave you a shot like who's the
one that you're?
Like dude.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Thank god this guy gave me elijah milsep.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Elijah milsep, my first client ever.
I don't know why the hell thisguy signed with me right.
I'll never forget it in myentire life.
We brought him uh, we broughthim to New York.
We flew him to New York.
From Atlanta to New York.
We flew him with a layover inCharlotte.
I'll never forget in my lifeand I would never do that today
in my life.
Flew him on a layover.
He landed.
We didn't have enough money toput him in a hotel, so we put

(24:16):
him in an apartment in Larchmont, new York.
A buddy's apartment, a buddy'sapartment with no shower curtain
, uh, no bed and no tv.
We we bought a tv and we, uh,we put it against the pillow and
we forgot to.
We forgot about the, the showercurtain right and, uh, we put
him in.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Did he call you and be like hey, dude, there's no
shower curtain?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
he never said anything like we just have you
ever talked to him after and belike, hey, what happened?
What?
I know I I should, though, butI'm curious he ended up.
He ended up, uh, I'll neverforget it.
We went, we took him to, uh, wetook him.
I'll never forget, we took himto one oak that night, um, like
it was a really popular club.
I don't even know how we got in, but we got in and he wanted a,

(24:59):
a table.
I never paid for a table in mylife.
I didn't know what a table wasyeah, sure, table I got, I got
the bill I got the bills athousand dollars, it was more,
more than a thousand dollars anduh, I couldn't pay for it.
I didn't have money to pay forit.
So, um on that, for I spentlike 30 or 40 minutes, uh, at
the club on the bank trying tofigure out how to pay for the
bill and, um, he was so pissedit was literally out of a movie.

(25:22):
He was so pissed that like wekind of like embarrassed him in
that way that he ended upwalking out and he made a left
and to the left there was an uhit was pouring outside and there
was a basketball court andthere was like, uh, a basketball
with like that's like barelyinflated and he starts shooting
in the pouring rain and I waslike rebounding for him it was
like a fucking movie and he'slike dude, sounds like a fucking

(25:43):
yeah, and he was like cursingme out and shit whatever and
telling you what exactly?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
yeah, like like dude, you're embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
He's like bro, like why, why would you like, why
would you tell me, I can youknow to get a bottle?
And you have me standing overhere in front of all these
people, blah, blah, and what doyou tell them?
Because the lights came on andeverything.
I was like nah the lights came.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
The lights came on, bro.
It's like the music stopped.
Yeah, we still did.
Tell me the music stopped, yeah, we didn't?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
You know, it was 5 o'clock in the morning.
We still haven't figured outhow we're going to pay this bill
, but he ended up signing withus.
How?
Why?
Do you have any idea?
Why?
I have no idea, and you knowthe guy you mean.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I'll just give you a no.
No, yeah, I want to hear it.
Five seconds, give me the fiveminute one, yeah, I mean the the
um.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
One of the one of the Jewish uh, you know synagogue
attendees was, uh, mark Lasseryand bought the Milwaukee Bucks
at the time.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
So you, got to help.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
You got to help from a Jew.
It's fucking crazy you got tostart the sports agency.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Here we go, we're going to take him and put him on
the team.
So that's another guy who gaveyou a big shot, right?
Yeah, so both of those guysI've had a lot of big shots.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
But in order for him to even get to that point, he
had to get into NBA SummerLeague.
And I only had one contact withone team.
It was the Philadelphia 76ers.
It was the only contact I hadaround the league.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
So that was the only team I could call, so it's not
now that you can pick up thephone and call whoever you want.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, now I can call everyone but at the time I could
only call the assistant GM ofthe Sixers.
So I called him and I saidlisten, I have this player's
name's Elijah Millsap and wewant to put him on NBA summer
league.
He's like, you know, I'm kindof interested.
But you know, connect with me.

(27:35):
After the draft that year theyhad a record seven draft picks.
This was during their time ofrebuild.
You know they called it theprocess.
They had seven draft picks.
I remember Elijah was with me,we watched the draft.
You know we had thisexpectation.
You know I remember Elijah waswith me, we watched the draft,
we had this expectation and Iwas convinced I was going to put
him on the summer league team.
The draft comes, they draftseven players and they call me
and they're like I'm sorry, butwe don't have any, we don't have

(27:56):
any space.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Seven players.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Summer league roster is going to be tough, so I'm
really down on myself.
He's in Atlanta, I'm doing mything.
You're thinking it's not goingto be tough, blah, blah, blah.
So I'm really down on myself,you know he's in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
I'm doing my thing.
You're thinking it's not goingto happen at this point.
It's done, it's done.
They said no, no, it's not.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
But there was two summer leagues at the time the
one in Las Vegas which was likethe really populares game, and
the first summer league.
And the Sixers are playing andI put it on and Pierre Jackson
tears his Achilles as I'mwatching and he tears his

(28:33):
Achilles, which is the sameposition as Elijah, different
position but he tears hisAchilles in the game.
So I'm like, oh my God, maybe Ishould reach out.
So I'm thinking I'm like damn,I'm like should I reach out?
And you know I'd be like, youknow I'm so sorry your, your,
your grandmother passed away.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
But is she selling the house?
You know Selling her funeralfor us.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
So I reach out, I'm like listen, I'm so sorry to
hear about Pierre Jackson, sohe's like you know, I don't know
the response.
Back he says I'm not sure, butI'll let you know.
And then the next day they theycalled me, he joined the team,
but that's the thing like if youdon't make that call, you're
not in.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
If I don't make that call, then you're not in his
brain.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
The next day in the morning he's still thinking if I
never, if I never make thatcall, if I never?

Speaker 1 (29:17):
there's no such thing as luck and success guys, you
gotta have the balls to makethat call.
That's not an easy call to make, especially when you're just
starting.
You don't really know, but youknow what I mean.
Like there's no such thing asas luck man, I'm telling you
right now.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
If I don't make that call, I'm not in this, I'm not
here, right you're not hereright now.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
No shine period.
I'm not here.
It's over, right, it's over,yeah and um and he goes.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
And then you know the player that was playing ahead
of him spray I'll never forget.
Jordan mccray sprains his ankle.
Eliza comes in, he sets asummer league record seven
steals in a game and boom, boom.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
We're off and running .
What's the joy when you'rewatching that game and he's
getting the steals?
You're like dude, this is myfucking guy, so you know I
cannot like what is there.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
So imagine I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm I'm 20 years old.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Oh my god, it's happening I'm 20 years old.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I'm sitting directly.
God, it's happening.
I'm 20 years old.
I'm sitting directly behind thebench.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
And you have to look at the highlights.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
I'm literally shooting up and I'm screaming
Emotion like you've never feltbefore.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Just crazy emotions, you know.
And my partner is pulling myarm down like dude, don't forget
, you're an agent now.
Like you can't be.
You know, today, when I see myplayers are dropping 25 and I'm
you gotta be long.
Yeah, you know, I'm, I'm.
Uh, you know, full commoncollective um, you know I was
acting a fool.
I mean, yeah, but I was.
I was living out my dream atthe highest level at that moment

(30:36):
yeah, what's?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
what's a time where, like it seems like it was kind
of related to that story there,but it was there a time you went
to sleep and you're like, fuckdude, I, you know, I hit it out
of the park with this marketingshit.
And now I'm here like dude,this is for me like like it's,
it's, it's.
It was there a time that youwere like woke up about to quit
I mean went to sleep about toquit and maybe woke up, not quit
.
Is there anything?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
yeah, there's probably about like three people
who have, like, known me at thelowest level, and I'll save
that for when I write my bookone day.
Okay, because you know I stillgot to maintain a certain image
that I've carried through andthrough.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Was there crying?

Speaker 2 (31:15):
involved no, not crying involved.
But there's been some very,very low moments in my life and
it's been for a very shortperiod of time.
But you know, I was able to um,you know, battle through
adversity, um, and and and getthrough that, but I never, I
never gave up on, on what I wasgoing to do.
I was going to do this to theend, and the reason why is

(31:36):
because I and I truly say thislike what I do is not for the
money, I do because I love it somuch yeah, the money is a
byproduct of what you do.
I would do this, no matter whatyou know, and and if I had to do
this and and, um, you know,deliver groceries at the same
time in order to live out mydream, like I would do it, um,
and so you know, that's that'swhy I think, uh, you know, I've

(31:58):
just always stayed, you know,focused on, on that and it's
funny because you know I got, Istarted my business you pretty
much around around the same agewhere you were involved in this
and, um, it's, it's.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
I remember people telling me so when I started my
real estate company, I started amortgage company but I had
never done a fucking loan in mylife Like you know.
And I remember people tellingme dude, you can't do that.
Like, if you've never done likeyou don't?
You gotta learn?
You got to learn, you got to beyears in the business before
you start a fucking mortgagecompany you know, and I'm like
oh, those negative motherfuckersyou know Like dude, they just
want me to fail.

(32:29):
And I'm like dude, I'm doing itand I did.
I started a real estate company, started a mortgage company.
But I look back now and I'mlike dude, those people were not
giving me bad advice, they werenot being negative, they don't
do that, yeah it's crazy, butyou got that.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You got that from people.
Imagine I was getting that frommy parents.
You know, first generationamerican.
You know it's very simple isyou go to school, yeah, you go
to law school.
You come out and you startworking for a company.
You know, and this was thedream and this is how it was
going to be.
So, you know, for me to breakoff and say I'm not doing that,
I'm going to do my own thing wasvery difficult pill for my mom
specifically to like to swallow.

(33:03):
You know, um, and was that badadvice on her end?
No, but you know, I dream big,you know, and I had big
aspirations for myself and Iwanted to control my destiny and
I believe I could do what Icould do.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
So right, but there there was, you know now.
So, on the other token, Ididn't get much of an answer for
you on the on the lowest point.
So when was the time when youwere like, and and I know you
know, listen, as, as anentrepreneur and with high goals
, I know you never really makeit, you know, and that's yeah, I
tell people all the time likethis ambition, shit, yeah, it's,

(33:36):
it's um, it's a beautiful thingand and I'm glad I was born
with it in the whole situation,but it's also a fucking curse
because you're never, really,never satisfied, never satisfied
.
Like, oh, I just, oh, I justhit this goal, like why don't I
go to?
You know, I'm like man, like,why can't I just stop and smell
the roses a little bit, like, ifI?
You know, it just dawned on methe other day where the area

(33:58):
where, so, as a kid, the areawhere I'm like, wow, I hope I
live there one day, right now, Iprobably wouldn't want to live
there now at all Right, likethat was like, oh, if I have
this house with this, you know,so you, your, your goals,
continue to go up, and continueto go up and continue to go up.
You're like where I'm like allright, you know, I don't know if

(34:28):
I made it, but man like, wow,this is cool.
You know what I mean?
Is there a point where you'relike, damn dude, like this is
real.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
There's no going back right now.
I'm here, I've arrived.
To a certain extent, I'm notwhere I want to be, but I've
arrived.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean, you know every.
There's many milestones whereyou have that moment where you
sit back and you I guess the guyyou signed maybe you know, like
I hit my partner on the arm andI'm like, you know, or I give
him a big hug and I'm like, wow,yeah.
So, like you know, my firstever draft pick, you know,
quindary Weatherspoon.
He was drafted 49th overall andI'll never forget that moment.

(35:05):
I mean there's clips of it allover YouTube, you know just like
the emotions, the hug, theexcitement.
You know, even this past yearyou know I had Malik Beasley,
nba All-Star Weekend three-pointcontest and you know you're
just in the back with everybodyand you're just like, or, you

(35:26):
know, or even on a regular game,you know, you, after the game,
you just you're just chillingwith lebron.
He's walking out in the, youknow in the area, you know in
the locker room area and you'rejust like, bro, like how is
little?

Speaker 1 (35:36):
the hell am I?
There's the.
It's called an imposter.
How is?
How is?

Speaker 2 (35:39):
little daniel azan like, yeah, you know, here when
lebron broke the record uh, formost points, nba is three it was
against one of my clients,train man, and like I was there
for shoot around and I sawwhatever.
And you know, I even have aframe in my house like with, uh,
with, like you know, the shirtthat they gave after the game
with my credential, with my nameon it.
I'm just like how is littledaniel zahn that used to like

(36:01):
chase these players down theblock like how is he?

Speaker 1 (36:03):
like like here I'm here I'm like, I'm a peer, I'm
not, you know, I'm one of them.
Um, so it has an agent.
Um, so what makes a good agent?
Right, um, you know, there's.
There's a saying my buddy, mybuddy mark, always says the the
uh, a good, uh, a good attorneyknows the law, a great attorney

(36:24):
knows the judge.
But, um, like, what makes awhat?
What separates a average orgood or good agent from from the
great?
Is it picking out talent?
Like, can you see a kid youknow in high school and be like
that's, that's the guy?
Yeah, right, like that for sure.
Right, like there's, there's,so you're almost a very high

(36:46):
paid scout almost right.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
I mean, well, yeah, I mean, I mean, like you know, my
job isn't to pick the playerright.
So let's just start with thefact that I picked the player
right.
So you know you pick the playerand you know, normally, you
know the basic agent, your jobis to negotiate the deal.
You know and, um, you know,people always tell me but,
daniel, you do too much andyou're so involved and you're
you're too ingrained and, in myopinion, what makes a great

(37:10):
agent is really, from the momentyou have him to be able to get
him to that contract right, theprocess, and that process
includes skill and development.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
So you know so you are hold on.
So let me make sure Iunderstand this.
So you might get a collegeplayer and be like, hey man,
that guy, if I could just gethis shot right better, exactly.
I mean, are you getting asdetailed as his elbows a little
bit out on his shot?
I mean, you're getting thatdetailed like literally,
literally, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
So we're gonna work on his, you know, okay.
So this guy, he's got to gain acertain amount of muscle,
muscle mass, this guy, okay,well, you know this is an injury
prone guy his knees.
We have an issue over here withcartilage, etc.
What are we going to do toaddress it?

Speaker 1 (37:48):
so you're also a doctor, right?

Speaker 2 (37:49):
so, yeah, so we're going to work, we're going to
work on on his body, we're goingto work on his mechanics, right
, um, but but I'm sorry, I'msorry I'm gonna interrupt, but
I'm like so you have to.
Um, I don't have to right noright.
Right right to is to negotiatethe deal got it.
Okay, you're giving me thedifference between good and
great if I want to be great andthis is what I do, so I'm going

(38:11):
to do that right.
Make sure I make him the bestbasketball player he could be.
That's why he's in Miami,that's why, after this podcast,
I have six players that aregoing to be training and we're
working on shit with everysingle one of them.
So that's, that's step numberone.
Then step number two is how amI going to organize his finances

(38:32):
to a point where he's going tobe able to turn this into
generational wealth so that hecould come out of this
basketball shit with somethingCorrect, right, unlike what's
the stat now?
95% go broke after five years.
Okay, so how do we avoid?
How do we get him to not bethat 95 and put him in that five
percent?

Speaker 1 (38:52):
but do you explain the jewish culture?
And you got to have a smallercar and you got.
How far do you go into this?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
I've had, I've had, I've had a lot of players who
have signed me because I'mjewish, right, so I mean right,
I'll say that.
So then, once, once, once, uh,once, we, you know I sell that
ferrari and get a ford f-150once we work on that, you know
now it's like, okay, how can wekeep the player's nose clean?
you know through and through andthat, uh, until we get to this
contractor throughout his career, right, like you know, avoiding

(39:20):
any, any sort of trouble.
So that means cleaning out yourcrew, cleaning out the people
you're hanging out with rightyou know so and making sure you
understand.
Hey, if you're going out atnight, you know you're not
driving the car on the way back,and if you are driving the car
and you're getting pulled over,your friend is take is jumping
in and take right, because youare the breadwinner, you're the

(39:40):
one that's supporting the fit.
You know everyone over here.
So, yeah, you know you're themost important commodity in the
group.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
But I'm sorry to rewind a little bit, because
what I'm I'm definitely want togo back to that because I'm
fascinated by that right.
But what I'm really fascinatedby is the fact that you played a
little bit of basketball, right.
I mean, you know very littlevery little.
I mean, it's rec ball, yeah,right, and you can see a kid,
right.
So, uh, something I don't, noneof these guys know, even I was

(40:08):
carlos boozer's shooting coach,shooting coach.
So I was a shooting coach forcarlos boozer shooting coach as
growing up.
So I understand the mechanicsof a perfect shot, yeah, almost
as much as I understand realestate.
I just got it as a kid.
I was a shooting guard, youknow.
I just was nowhere near assimilar.
It wasn't nowhere near asathletic, but my I was, you know

(40:29):
, as far as shooting mechanics.
So the fact that you're able to,you know, as an agent, you know
, pick a kid and be like man.
If, if I can get that kid isgood right now, if I get them
with the right shooting coach,or if I get them with the right
shooting coach, or if I get himwith the right strength and
conditioning coach, right, like,I can make him great.
He could be from a 59 draft toa to a 10.

(40:49):
Right, right.
So that's that's.
How does how does that happen?
Like, where do you?
I mean, do you just obsessedwith basketball and you're
watching?
Are you watching mechanics?

Speaker 2 (40:56):
videos.
I mean it.
It first of all, it comes witha lot of experience and a lot of
time.
The more you spend, you know,in the gym working, watching
trainers, watching, you knowyour off-court trainers, like
you know, I can assess a guy'sbody and know what.
Where we're at, I can know whatan injury.
I could look here, an injury, aplayer describe an injury and
know what it is.

(41:17):
It's not because I'm a doctorand I've studied it.
I've just been around part ofyour I'm around it every single
day.
I have my my trainers at DBC,elise and others.
You have your crew, I have mycrew that have taught me so much
that right now I can assess it.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
And then, from the basketball side, so you got a
ball handling guy, you got ashooting guy.
What does your team look like?

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, I mean.
So we have our trainers, ouron-court trainers, who are great
, and then our off-courttrainers, you know, who do the
rehab, who work on the body, whowork on biomechanics.
You know we have our doctors.
Sports psychology Sportspsychology is like a huge one,
especially in today's climate.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
What do you mean by especially today's climate?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
You know like life life has been, you know, has
brought a lot of challenges to alot of people.
You know, and we talk aboutCOVID, we talk about, talk about
, you know, the climate aroundthe world and and and the unrest
around the world, you know, has, you know, challenged a lot of
people mentally and so, you know, it's uh, you know, for the,
for the regular guys like us.
There's psychology and there'ssports psychology exactly right,

(42:19):
the regular guys like us.
There's difficulty and then andthen the the mental side of it,
and I actually want to tell youa great story about this.
Yesterday, uh, two days ago, Iwas in new york and I played the
first organized basketball Iplayed since I was in high
school.
How'd you do?
And?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
so I'll tell you great tell you a great story.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
So there were seven players.
I was invited an hour before tocome join and play in a
basketball game and you know,obviously I'm I'm this.
I'm the second the worst playeron the team.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
You know everyone is, there was somebody worse than
you there was one worse than me?

Speaker 2 (42:52):
who's?
That guy he was completely outof shape, and then it was me,
and then it was all like 68 hewas in a wheelchair former
former basketball players.
Yeah, exactly uh.
Former basketball players,college players, whatever.
And let me basketball players,college players, whatever.
And let me tell you something Isat on the bench for the first
10 minutes and it was the mostmiserable 10 minutes of my

(43:13):
entire life.
I sat on the bench and I waspissed and my mood was low and
my attitude was bad and in thatmoment I started thinking about
all my players when theycomplain about not playing.
You were pissed because youweren't in the game.
I wasn't in the game.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I'm pissed, I'm not in the game.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
I'm pissed, I'm not in the game and I'm so upset
that I'm not in the game and I'mso down and I'm thinking about
all my clients when they alwayscomplain to me about them not
playing and how difficult it wasand the mental challenge of
sitting through a game andbelieving that you're good
enough to play and help the teambut the coach is not giving you
that opportunity.
And I'm sitting andexperiencing that for 10 minutes

(43:52):
in a wreck league game when Iam the worst.
those players those players wishI was their agent, right, right
, those players.
I had a player come up to me.
He's like are you?
He's like, do you work forhazan sports?

Speaker 1 (44:03):
and I'm so pissed, I'm like I'm him, I am, I'm him,
I am hazan sports okay, and um,and, and.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
In that moment it was just like, wow, the mental
fortitude that these, my players, go through on a day-to-day
basis you know of theuncertainty that they have is
something very commendable so soI have two athlete kids right.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Um, you know, I got my son's a wrestler ranked
number one in the country rightnow.
My daughter is a tennis player.
Uh, we, we, you know she's onher way up.
I the the man.
You know, if people onlyunderstood what it takes to be
an athlete, it should be themost respected.

(44:42):
I mean the hours and hours andhours of practice and and
sacrifice.
You know, as a kid, you knowyou're not going to birthday
parties.
You're not.
You're not.
You're where.
You know kids are going tosummer camp.
I mean, you know my son leavestomorrow to pennsylvania for
fucking 10 days of grueling, six, seven, eight hour practices.

(45:03):
My daughter's at practice rightnow and the fucking son.
But all of that, the reason whyI'm bringing that up, is
because none of that matter, thehard work doesn't matter for
shit if your head's not yourhead's not screwed on tight.
And I'm sure you have thoseguys like look how talented.
This guy is mental 20 talentdude like the guy.
You're like, look how talentedthe guy, but he can't get out of

(45:24):
his own way.
He doesn't believe in himself.
Right, he doesn't understandthe just the, the breathing
exercises, the positiveaffirmation you know, for me, I
came from from right, the jewishculture.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
You know manhattan boy, this and the third right,
so I'm sure you can imagine howdifficult for me it was to
understand these players.
You're getting in trouble,you're, you know, because of
marijuana or because of whateveryou know stupidity that you're
getting yourself caught into.
And I'm sitting there as anagent.
I'm like I cannot understandwhy you're in this situation,

(45:59):
don't?
You're at the highest level,you know you're playing in the
nba and you get cut because ofstupidity from the nba roster,
from a team that just won an nbachampionship holding a gun
right or for right.
So you know.
So there was this disconnectbetween myself and the players
for a very long time I couldn'tget fathom.
What the hell are you doing.
The moment I got it was when Iwent to where these players grew

(46:23):
up and I understood everything.
They don't know any better.
This is how they grew up.
Yeah, what's normalcy for us?
What they're doing was normalcyfor them, and the moment, as an
agent, you're able tounderstand that this is all they
know yeah then you have abetter understanding of how to
approach well, it's a culturalchanging.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
It's a cultural thing .
It's a cultural thing.
You know, I was watching, I wasgetting a haircut yesterday and
uh, yeah, yes, sir, I was withmy son getting a haircut
yesterday and uh, and I'mwatching, uh, you know, a rap
video and uh, there's fuckingkids in a van, kids in a van
with machine guns, right, andlike that's what we're feeding

(47:05):
this youth.
Yeah, right, a, you're not adrug dealer, you're not an
athlete, you're not.
This you're not gonna make.
And then you're holding a gunis cool, yeah, wearing your
entire net worth on your neck,yeah, or in your car, right, and
it happens with the cubans too.
I mean, the cubans are fucking.
I mean you, it came out on a ononly, uh, on in the day the

(47:26):
other day, like a fuckingmaserati or some some really
expensive car in front of like a, you know, like a, like a, like
a duplex or a mall park orsomething like that.
And it happens and it's acultural thing, and we deal with
it in the hispanic communitytoo.
It's like you know, um, I reada book, uh, the millionaire next
door.
You read that book before.
No, so they, it's all about thestudy and the psychology of you

(47:48):
know millionaires, billionairesand everything like that, and
you know what makes them tickand and you know one thing that
man, it just totally changed andI read that early, right out of
high school.
I read it um and uh, the mostpopular car for millionaires and
this is this is them studyingirs returns and the whole
situation is a ford f-150, right, um, not a fucking ferrari.

(48:10):
And I remember the impact thatthat had.
I mean, like why isn't?
Why is it not a fucking ferrari?
Right, it's not a ferrari.
Because this money you savefrom fucking buying an f-150 to
a ferr if you put it in there ata 5% compounded monthly 4% is
fine too.
4% is fine too 4% compoundedmonthly for the next whatever

(48:34):
that turns into millions ofdollars, that's 15 Ferraris.
So it's not about don't get aFerrari, it's like don't get it
now, save that money.
So how do you deal?
And again, I deal with it.
Look at Miami, the fuckingSouth Americans.
I'm telling you, they and Iwent through this, I went

(48:55):
through this crusade of tryingto change this, and I'm Cuban,
so I don't not really SouthAmerica.
My wife's Venezuelan, she'ssouth american.
But, um, the culture is not comehere and buy an apartment
building or buy an incomeproducing asset is come and buy
a five million dollar fuckingcondo in brickell with a ten

(49:15):
thousand dollar a monthassociation, where you're
nothing you're going to do, isgoing to get you to make money
on that.
There's never going to be afucking return on that, right,
but it's the culture.
And I remember like, years oflike no, let's have seminars.
No, and let me explain.
No, look, let me show you whatthese $5 million are going to do

(49:35):
, right, here's, here's whatthis is going to do in this.
No, right, I want to go back toVenezuela and I want to tell
all my fucking friends that Ihave a fucking five million
dollar condo in brickell.
So similar situation in yourcase right and and and again.
It's almost like you're.
You know, listen, I, I, I'maware your.
Your job is to get the contractright.

(49:55):
All the other stuff you do iswhat makes you from good to
great.
Right, but how do you fightthat 95 failure rate?
How do you explain the culture?
Like no, no, no, no, no, that'snot like what I mean.
What's that battle?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
like it has to be crazy well, first of all, I have
to, I have to say that I'vesuccumbed to that culture
because now, you know, to acertain degree, you know, I'm
I'm now ingrained into how theyare right.
You know, you start talkinglike that, like the players, you
start wanting to dress like theplayers.
So I'm going through thatchallenge every day.
But what's really?
You know, I've had a verystrong personality and starting

(50:28):
at, you know, 20 years old, I,you know, I stopped drinking.
I don't drink any alcohol, nowine, beer, jesus or anything
like that, and sorry to hearthat and I'm sure, but for me I
had to be able to show that Iwas mature I haven't drank in 24
hours, but okay, because I haveto be able to show, I have to
show discipline, I have to showplayers that that I'm I'm

(50:50):
different than them in that way.
That's why you know I'm dressedin suits and not in in Jordans,
because you know you have toshow that there is a a line and
a difference.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
I've succumbed to it to a certain degree, but and
that's part, you're not wearinga duvet and you know I've
succumbed to it in the sensewhere it's like In my business.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
You know what attracts the athletes Is seeing
the car, is taking them out tothe nice dinner and doing the
yeah, it's weird right.
So for me, in order for me toget my players, it's a business
expense.
Now, sure, when we for me toget my players, it's a business
expense.
Now, sure, when we, when now,that now we sit down and we're
talking like buddy, this is acostume I'm wearing, all right,
that's not who I am the reasonwhy I don't drive the ferrari is

(51:33):
because that ferrari money hasbeen sitting in a cd and I have
about 45 cds right now that areworking, aside from the 15 other
ventures that we're doing andthe treasury bonds and the basic
things.
Sure, the money that you haveright now that's sitting in a
savings account that's making $3a year is making me about
$80,000 a year.

(51:53):
So you know, once we starteducating them on that, they
understand.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
But it has to be an enormous battle.
It is.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
It's an enormous battle.
We're talking about playersthat are getting checks of
$500,000 a month, biweeklychecks of $250,000, biweekly
checks of $125,000, biweeklychecks of $65,000.
And we're fighting the battleof how do we get this player to
not spend 65K in two weeks.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's all the time.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And it ticks me off, and no matter how many Excel
sheets you put them in front ofand explain Excel sheets.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
It doesn't matter.
Excel sheets, it's Excel sheets.
You're controlling his moneyand it's not in his name, and
you still can't do it.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, and how do you stop them from buying, from,
from getting the you know thebuddy from his neighborhood that
wants him to open this fuckingbusiness that you absolutely
know is not going to make anymoney?
I mean, like it's part of thecleaning up process that you
mentioned Cleaning up process,but you got to expect some
certain level of loyalty totheir friends and their people

(52:55):
that grew up with them and thattype of stuff.
So how do you?
That's that has to be another.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
It's not because, at the end of the day, it's very
simple Not every person is meantto be in your entire journey.
Some people are just chaptersin your journey.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
That's a very good way to explain it.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
And so you know, there are times, you know that
player makes it to NBA and he'slike hey, you remember the day I
drove you to the gym?
Oh, you remember the day that Ilent you twenty dollars.
Yeah, those aren't people thatneed to be in your next chapter.
Hook them up take them out todinner take them out to dinner,
you show your respect, you dothis and that and you move on.
You now you have outgrown them,and so you know, I, I believe

(53:33):
it's it's that way inrelationships, uh, I believe
it's that way in business, um,and in life, where you know not
everyone is meant to be with you, um, in every step of the way
and and yeah, but then becausethen you're not, oh, you're not
real, because you're not hangingout with your buddies from from
this and that.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Well, if my buddy from high school or my buddy
from whatever is still you know,and and and in my case it was,
it's the potheads, right, likethe guys that you know.
I grew up in the trailer parkand they, fucking you know, they
started doing drugs and and,and listen, I'm a little fucking
angel.
I've done every drug you canpossibly imagine and everything
but, dude, I, I always knew whatI wanted to do and I always

(54:09):
knew my business was, was, was,was.
What's gonna get me there?
Right, it's.
And uh, and no, you, you can'tbe smoking, but you can't smoke
pot every fucking day if youwant to be successful, right,
you just can't.
Why?
Because you get lazy.
Why because it fucks with yourambition.
Why because it gets you fuckingparrot and why because it gets
you reclusive, it turns you intoan intro, I mean.
So that's it, you know.

(54:30):
So.
So, if, if, yeah, the, thefriends that you know that I
have right now, are, are, are,are, you know, usually people
that I met in business and we'vegrown together and my, my
friends right now are all eithermy clients or my, my business
associates, all my friends thatI had growing up.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
They're all great people, but we just weren't on
the same level, you know yeahyou know, uh, my, you know they
were focused on partying and anddrinking.
Whatever my my focus was, youknow, building my business and
being successful, so that, whenthey're trying to figure their
shit out, I'm partying withJay-Z, I'm at the club with
Drake, I'm at his birthday.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
So you know it's just I'veactually partied.
I've actually partied withJay-Z A funny story with that so
I did a lot of business with,with, with A-Rod, and and his
group.
You know a lot of real estatedeals and stuff like that with
with A-Rod and and and and hisgroup.
You know a lot of real estatedeals and stuff like that.
Um and uh, his, one of his bestfriends, a manager, and, and uh
is is my childhood friend.

(55:25):
He's like my big brother reallygrowing up.
So I get to the airport one dayand I'm like uh and I, whatever
show up, show up to the gate andand I'm like I see my buddy
Pepe there and I'm like the fuckyou're doing?
It's a flight to london.
And I'm like like what are youdoing?
And I'm like what the fuck areyou doing here?
I'm like I'm going to a realestate convention.
He's like, well, I'm going to ajay-z concert.
You want to come?
I'm like, absolutely so, uh, soI knew it was going to be vip,

(55:47):
vip, but you don't really likeyou know it's, it's an
interesting because so we're ina huge, you know you're, you're
in the middle of the uh of theconcert and there's a you know
huge kind of stage situationthere and then, um, you know,
that stage is vip, right, yougot to be able to get in there,
but that has another vip andthat vip on top has another vip

(56:11):
in the front where it's justreally myself, peppy, uh,
jay-z's, you know, best friend,and uh, you would think it's
like super luxurious, but it'sjust a cooler with bottles in
there and it's just, they'rejust for us, right, and you're
like looking at, you know,you're looking at the concert
and then after that we're, we'regoing to the backstage and
smoking everybody's smoking weedand it's a, it's an, it's an

(56:32):
interesting.
Uh, it was a, it was a fun,definitely a fun trip to to
london.
But, um, so, you know, back backto, you know, uh, just wrapping
up, I know you got to get outof here, so, um, back to
building that staff, right, andand you understanding the game,
because, again, I don't know,for whatever reason, I'm super,
I'm super fascinated by that,right, like, um, so how do you

(56:52):
pick these, how do you pickthese coaches?
Right, again, because you haveto have a certain level.
Oh, no, actually do you?
Do you purposely go and becomebetter at watch videos on
mechanics of basketball?
Like, literally you sit downand watch shooting videos like
pistol peach or something likethat for me.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
For me, it's, uh, for me it's it's a little different
.
I'm, you know, I'm trying tofigure out.
So I have a player, for example, that's 6'9", he's struggling
shooting the ball.
We have athleticism over here,great IQ, his ability to read
the game.
So now, what kind of stylecoaching, style, play calling,

(57:33):
is suitable for him?
So what coach should I put himwith?
So I'm thinking, okay, uh, youknow, okay, the lakers they love
running horns, chest, horn,chest, boom, boom, boom.
You hit the guy at, uh, at theelbow, this guy sets the screen.
So now I'm starting to learn,okay, what's pistol action?
I'm learning actions, I'mlearning styles.
You know you, right back whenphil jackson triangle offense

(57:55):
and trying to see, okay, so yeah, but is that?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
is that just watching games or watching
instructionals, like are youliterally reading books?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Like I'm watching the game on a different level,
right?
So, like you know, you're goingto a game right now and you're
watching the ball go in the holeand I'm trying to figure out,
okay, what kind of players fitthe Warriors system.
What are they looking for?
Okay, so how do I make anotherDraymond?
Okay?
How do I make another Draymond?
Okay, this guy, can he be aDraymond green?
Can I make him a Draymond green?
So, if I can make him aDraymond green, okay, then this
is a player that is good andthis is what's going to be

(58:26):
attractive to the Warriors.
Like, based on you know, youwatch a player in a college
setting or in a regular gymsetting and you try and figure
out what kind of concepts hecould fit in and where he could
be suitable, be suitable, andbased off of that, let's try and
mold him into that so he couldfit into this system.
So I know, like when I see aplayer, I could say, okay, this
is a miami heat.

(58:46):
When we talk about heat culture, this is a miami player.
Right, like everyone knows,jimmy butler is a miami player.
Like we all know that there arecertain players that are miami
players.
I could tell you right nowterry rogier, who's on the Miami
Heat, he's not a Miami player,he doesn't belong there.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
He doesn't belong.
We do a lot better where?

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Anywhere, right.
Anywhere else, essentially, butthe Heat culture, right.
So that's what I'm doing.
I'm looking at players.
I'm saying, okay, where does hefit?
Where is he suitable?
What is he missing?
Big man that can't shoot theball.
He's not good anywhere in theNBA.

(59:22):
If you can't pick and pop intoday's game, right.
You look at guys like Jokic BamAdebayo.
If you can't hit a 16-footer, a25-footer, you can't fit
anywhere.
So that's how you startfiltering out players, right.
Unless you feel like you couldchange his mechanics and make
him a shooter or adapt him intoa shooter.
A lot of colleges have playersthat can shoot, but they don't

(59:43):
show it within the system.
So now it's your job to be ableto gather more information on
the player.
Maybe the team doesn't show hisability to shoot, but he
actually can shoot, which iswhat we have.
We have a player that was inKentucky last year that could
shoot the piss out the ball butwasn't able to show it in
college.
So you know, there's constantstudying, gathering a video how
far down do you go pickingtalent?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I mean, are you looking at middle school?
I know you're not okay, whatare you allowed to do?
Let's put it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
No, I'm allowed to.
I, at this point, we're allowedto um you're allowed to what?

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
talk to middle school , yeah I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
I have relationships with 15 year olds for 16 year
olds right now.
Right, um, yeah, I don't likeinvesting a lot of that because
I don't have patience anymore.
I don't want to sit here andbuild an eight-year relationship
and hope he pans out.
There's a lot that could happenin eight years, you rather just
come in a year seven I'd rathercome in in the ninth inning
yeah junior year and height butyou're keeping an eye on them,

(01:00:34):
though, keeping an eye,definitely always keeping a
temperature right you know, youknow keeping a pulse on those
guys, but over here I'm doing mycooking with the college kids
and what's the best state rightnow for for basketball talent
oof?

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
wow, that's a great, great question if they tell you
dude, you know what, like, we'regonna separate this agent shit
into states, we're gonna have adraft.
We're gonna have a draft,everybody gets to pick a state.
What's the first round pick?

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
wow, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Give me like five seconds I can tell you, I mean
it's, it's really simple thereason why that that means a lot
to me because because, um, somy son has to travel a lot to
pennsylvania, to iowa, toeverything I have for the
wrestling stuff.
Right, when my daughter, shecould stay here locally and the
brackets are internationalbrackets, she'll go to a fucking
tournament in Broward andthere's kids from Mexico, from

(01:01:22):
Canada, from Europe, everything.
It's crazy.
It is the you know?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Yeah, if I had to pick, I'd probably go with
Dallas Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
What I would have never guessed.
I was thinking you were goingto say New York.
I thought you were going to saythe Northeast somewhere there's
no talent coming out of NewYork.
Dallas, texas, all the guysthat come out of New York are
all hyped up.
Dallas, Texas.
Why Is there like a coach therethat's producing them?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
No, just think right, try, and think.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
We're talking about high school.
I'm talking about high schoolproducing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
D1 guys, yeah, and D1 .
Right, think like this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Obviously, like you know, the obviously great
schools like texas tech, texastcu, but they're not producing.
I'm talking about, like aauteams and like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Okay, yeah, I mean but but think about how big
texas is yeah so you, you knowyou have bigger population.
Think about, I didn't even knowthey were like the population.
What kind of people?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
when I was growing up it was straight up new york.
I mean, it was new york, newyork, new york in your, your
dreams.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
New York right now is awful there's nothing coming
out of New York.
Right, there's nothing comingout of New York, new Jersey, I
mean.
The last thing that ever cameout of New York was Stefan
Marbury and Sebastian Telford.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Those are like my years kind of, you know.
So those days are so Dallas,texas, now, because again, so
I'm just kind of translating myworld so there's absolutely
pockets in the country wherethey're badass youth coaches.
Youth coaches Breeding Geniusyouth coaches Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Right now, florida is breeding them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
What coaches are producing them In Orlando right
now, orlando.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Each one teach.
One in Orlando is Each oneteach, one Is breeding.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
How about Miami?
Anybody who's running it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
You're not really seeing much coming out of Miami,
but Orlando is breeding.
But don't forget the big onesin Orlando.
They're pulling everyone fromMiami.
They're pulling them from Miami.
They're pulling them fromeverywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
So they're just recruiting them into their
program?
Yeah, because you're a Nike,that's a high school program.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Yeah, you're a Nike know, you're the hottest team,
you're on the circuit, you havethe most attention, so everyone
is coming there.
You have them.
You have uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Atlanta is doing a great job my buddy benny, uh,
for hella, he's uh.
His kids, uh, they're his oldersons with night, with columbia,
night riders, or, and uh, andthey just moved over to belen
now.
So, um, but, uh, but.
But what I'm saying is there,like youth coaches, it doesn't
make sense for you to go all theway back and be like, hey, this

(01:03:42):
youth coach has produced tolike dude X, this guy, this guy,
this guy like and those are therelationships.
So what you're better to make arelationship with those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
So what you're thinking about now the top
agencies have been doing 15years, before I even became an
agent, right?
So you know that you have thatchallenge of how do I get into a
pocket that's been, you knowthat that has had an emperor in
it for for 15 years.
So you know, yes, we do to acertain extent.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
So there's coaches out there.
You could pick three, threeyouth coaching, NBA coaching,
college and coaching.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Those three youth coaches can already be in bed
with another agency.
Correct, and I'm already cooked.
Correct, that's what.
I'm saying how much does thatmatter?
For you, it matters.
But you see, to be a successfulagent and to make it to the top
right, like you know, I've hada player in the NBA every year

(01:04:37):
and you know there's only about75 agents that have a player in
the NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
We're very small.
There's only 75 agents thathave a player In the world that
have one player in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yes, I know how many do you?
Have.
Last year I had nine Jesus.
I was ranked top 30 last yearas far as agencies.
But just because we're allgoing for the same fish, there's
different avenues to be able toget there.
So you know, the avenue you'retalking about is going through
the AAU program.
Aau program is like I have adifferent avenue of how I get

(01:05:06):
there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I'm talking more like a skill set guy, right?
So in my son's sport I can namefive guys that have produced
the most ncaa champs, right?
I mean because, again, that guyprobably can't coach.
You know, in your world the thenba right, just like the nba
guy does not have a fuckingpatience to sit down with a kid

(01:05:29):
and teach them the absolute, thefundamentals.
So so, like is there is, doesit make sense to make those
relationships that early on withthose guys that are producing
those talents?
How do you I mean you got what?
Do you take care of them like?

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
no, yes, is it legal?
Yes, without a yes, without adoubt.
But again, I'm telling you thatthose, those, there are agents
that are already controllingthose people.
Yeah, so you now need to figureout a different, you got to
create your own au program.
Right, you have to.
You have to come in atdifferent points.
You have to have a differentapproach.
Instead of going after thecoaches, you're going after the
parents.
Right, you're going after otherpeople.

(01:06:01):
So you know, or you, or.
But now, once these kids getpassed on to college, now you
build a relationship with thecollege coach.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
So I know I know you said not that you're not a fan
of nil.
You get the good and the badright, but if you were leaning
towards anything, you wereleaning towards it.
It does more more harm thangood.
51, 49-49, let's call it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
For the players that are actually good, that are
going to have a professionalcareer.
It's bad For the kids that arecoming in for the joyride, that
are going to work in financeafterwards.
It's fantastic, it's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Yeah, all right, man, it's been great.
I don't know anything else youwant to bring up or you want to.
You want to promote uh, yeah, Imean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
The only thing I'd probably want to say is just um,
you know, hopefully this, thisis uh motivational enough for
for people and for for young uhentrepreneurs around the world
to know that they can accomplishtheir dream yeah, it's, and you
know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
And there's one thing that let's we, we do you know
stuff about, about everything,real estate and whatever.
But but in reality, what I'm,what I'm most fascinated about
is that people don't understand,like they see 32 year old, you
know Azan, and like, oh, he'seither lucky or he has you know
a rich uncle, or he got you knowthe answers to the test in some

(01:07:21):
type of way.
They don't know the sacrificethat you know that call, that
one call that you probably satdown there with a phone and was
like dude, do I call this guyright after the fucking guy got
injured.
Like, is that going to put meon his shit list?
Is he going to hang up on me?
Like dude, what are you callingme now for?
You're crazy, like all of thatand making that call right, like
those things right.

(01:07:41):
And then you know that youdidn't go too much into detail.
Maybe one day you'll tell me,but you know that there has to
be a dark.
Every entrepreneur has thatdark day.
You're like, bro, fuck this man, this is just crazy.
Like like this is, maybe it'snot for me, maybe you know, you
know, maybe I'm a marketing guy,I'm not an agent.
You know.
So, those dark days, andeverybody has to understand it.

(01:08:02):
Like you know, every, everyperson that's trying to succeed
has to understand that there'snobody that hasn't gone through
those dark times, there's nobodywho hasn't had those failures.
And I don't want to soundcliche, but it's not about the
failures, it's about know howyou handle those failures right.
And there's a and again, my,you know, my, my, my passion is,
you know, the mma thing andeverything.

(01:08:23):
There's a, there's a, there's afighter named holloway you
don't know ufc anything at all.
Right, that's zero, right.
So one of the one of the bestever to do it, um, but super
fascinating is, um, he, he getsinterviewed at like 16 years old
, right, and he's like he, he,he's just dumbfounded by the

(01:08:44):
fact that he's like I don't.
He's like I don't understand.
Like, if you fail but youcontinue to try, then you're
good, you're happy with yourself, you're not a loser.
He says it with a, with a, witha, with a Hawaiian accent.
He with yourself, you're not aloser, he says it with a
Hawaiian accent.
He's like you're not a loser,you know, you just try.
And he couldn't fuckingunderstand why people would quit

(01:09:07):
when all you have to do is justcontinue to try, and then
you're not a loser in your mind.
Then you're happy with yourselfFucking fascinating how he got
it at such a young age.
You know what I mean, a hundredpercent.
Then you're happy with yourselfFucking fascinating how he got
it at such a young age.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean I just feel like youknow the culture is set up where
, you know, people are justcomfortable working a 9-to-5 job
.
You know, paycheck to paycheck,and the things that they look
forward to is a happy hour, youknow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
So, you know, not everyone is built for for it.
But if it's something that youwant to do, you know you don't
have to be a professionalathlete to be an agent you don't
have to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
You're all what you do, you just got to give it
everything you got.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
And if you're, you know, and don't spread yourself
out too thin.
You know I feel like too manytimes.
People want to be.
You know, they want to do realestate and they want to work a
regular 9-5 job and they want todo five other things at the
same time.
Like you know, people ask melike why, why don't you do other
sports?
I want to be the best at beinga basketball agent and the
moment you start spreadingyourself out too thin, you just

(01:10:06):
become average at everything.
So you know, invest your timeand energy into one thing, be
the best you could possibly beat it, and things will work out
last question, um, on the nilthing right which, which, which
is super interesting on what'shappening right now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Are you involved that far into it?
Oh, yeah, yeah, like you'regetting them NIL deals out of
high school.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I have multiple players that I've made over a
million, that I've done over amillion in NIL for them in one
year High school, college,college.
Is it creeping into high school?
It is because these players arenow going to go from high
school to colleges?

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Right, but do people start reaching out, throwing
that type of money for highschool players nowadays?
Yeah, millions of dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Not millions, but a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Who was the first one ?
Who was the first high?

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
schooler to start making that.
I mean, nl's only been aroundfor two years, right, so you
really see a lot of the moneygoing to football.
Football is like where, morethan nba well, uh, football as
far as college, I mean thosecollege quarterbacks I imagine
you go to, you know, alabama,where there's no professional
basketball team universityalabama's football team is

(01:11:13):
literally like the lakers youunderstand.
So the marketing dollars arejust through the roof and you're
and you're, uh, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
One more question the , the.
Uh, it's funny that, um, howyou started in marketing, right,
like what, how much does thathelp you?
Like?
Because at the end of the day,you're a, you're marketing
yourself.
But I mean, are you helpingthese guys with their marketing
and their brand andunderstanding that?

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
stuff.
The more, the more theyvaluable they are.
That's why I really like, likemade a name for myself, you know
, because, uh, when I firststarted, I was uh, managing jr
smith um, who won thechampionship with the calves and
all that, so I was doing allhis marketing.
He was a really marketableplayer, you know, um, and so we
were very creative with, withour approach.
So, you know, we did likebackpacks with his tattoos.

(01:11:59):
Oh shit, when he won thechampionship, you know he wasn't
wearing a shirt.
We came out with T-shirts ofhim, shirtless.
You know, we put it in 2K.
We did over $3 million inT-shirt sales.
You know, we had, when they won, the MLB All-Star Game was in
Cleveland.

(01:12:19):
We had him throw out the firstpitch and the catcher was
wearing his shirt.
So we were being very creativewith him, with his tattoos and
with his personality, to reallybuild that Swish brand, et
cetera.
He was coming in to the finalson a hoverboard.
We were doing all types ofsilly stuff.
So creativity is everythingwhen it comes to marketing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
So an athlete, right.
So um number one player playerwise, skill wise, but doesn't
play the game, doesn't want toget, you know, doesn't really
want play the marketing game,doesn't, you know, play with
social media.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Well, let's start with, first and first, your
position.
If you're a center, you're notmarketable, really, period,
right.
So let's look at, let's look at, let's look at the, the
signature shoes kairi irving, uhedwards um lebron james, um
luca donchish.
Do you see any big men have Inamed?
Have I named any any big men inthere?

(01:13:14):
Right, yokich and b shack backin the days, yeah, but that's
the most marketable now big menare not sexy as far as what you
want.
When it comes to sneakers,marketability is with guards,
point guards, guards, thoseother guys.
So you know from the get-goyour position can determine your
marketability.
From jump street like, youmight not have a marketing

(01:13:35):
career at all right now.
Once the position is figuredout, now it's your market, right
?
Shea gildress, alexander, mvpcaliber player, doesn't have his
own shoe because he plays forthe oklahoma city thunder.
Your market now separates youeven further, right, if you play
for the lakers.
You know malik beasley, who'smy client.
He has his own shoe and he, he,we, we.

(01:13:56):
You know the deal was done whenhe was on the lakers, why?
Because he's on the lakers,lebron james.
So they gave him a signatureshoe for, uh, his brand called,
except gave him a signature shoe.
So there's so many facets thatyou have.
You have to get filtered out toeven be able to become
marketable right, but now thewhat.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
What I'm what I'm really curious about is is, if
there's a player right nowreally good player, right In
high school, ok, does how muchdoes it matter that he starts
playing the game, the marketablegame, right, does he it?
Does it get him a better?
Would a college pick a, youknow, instead of the best player

(01:14:39):
that doesn't play the marketinggame at all and is you know, he
doesn't talk.
He doesn't talk the talk, hedoesn't have the personality.
Will they pick the fifth playerbecause he has a social media
following right, and he couldget in front of a microphone and
so selling jerseys mean morethan scoring points?

(01:15:00):
I guess that's the the way to,to put it bluntly.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
In many terms yes and and in some instances, no.
It depends on the culture, itdepends on the marketing depends
on the team.
It depends on management andtheir, their vision and the
things that are important tothem.
So you know, it's always.
It's always a case-by-casebasis.
You know, some teams will lookat a 16 year old that's
marketing himself and postingpictures 24 7 on instagram as a
guy who's way above his head andyou know, and and it's not

(01:15:25):
focused on basketball rightversus others that will see the
value in that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
So and and and.
Is there?
Is there teams saying, uh, what, what should a young?
We have a young athlete rightnow that is trying to make it.
What do you not post right likewhat do you stay away from to
make sure that you're not lookedat negatively?

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
and they kind of I have, I have a.
This is my personal opinion.
Yeah, right, so it's just mypersonal opinion.
You know, I my mentality withthe way I operate.
I'm never on vacation and I'mnever.
I never have a day off and I'malways working.
I want my clients to alwaysthink that I'm 24 seven working.
So if that means that I'm atthe satay on the beach, no one's

(01:16:09):
going to know I'm at the satay.
I'm not posting it, I'm notshowing it to anyone.
If I go on a vacation, no one'sgoing to know I was there.
I'm working 24-7.
This is my personal opinionbecause, you know, as a young
entrepreneur, I had to be ableto, I wanted and I had to show
everyone that I was mature, thatI was different and I was
locked in and I want my clientsto think that 24-7 I am

(01:16:32):
dedicated to them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
But to translate to them is always doing drills,
like posting stuff of themworking hard.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
Focusing on your content, like focusing on on
your craft right, like justalways showing that you're
grinding, that you're working,that you're always in the gym.
You know, I always tell myclients when you go to the gym
at night to work out at thefacility they know when you
clock in, when they clock out,they have cameras, they see all
that stuff.
So it's important where youknow you don't just go to

(01:17:00):
practice, you stay, you come toactually.
Development creates thatpersona that you want to show

(01:17:22):
and then when you're successfuland you want to, you know,
showcase what you know livingthe lavish life and doing all
those things Cool, you can havethat moment.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
So if you're a high school player, college player
right now, man focus.
If you're going to startposting anything, just post to
you working hard and stayingfocused.
There's nothing about partying,definitely nothing about
drinking.
Supposed to be working hard andstaying focused there's nothing
about partying, definitelynothing about drinking none of
that stuff, just stay focused onyour craft.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Yeah, when I when, uh when I was in college with my
partner, he posted a picture, uh, of himself uh holding a beer,
and I remember fighting with himabout I'm like how can you, how
can you post yourself withgirls at a frat party with a
beer?
Like we need people to thinkthat we're serious, we're
professional and we're more.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
That was at what age you told your partner.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
This was when we were in college.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
We were just getting started.
You know you could loosen up alittle bit, I guess, but I guess
you're right.
Yeah, you know, uh, last story,uh, for real now.
Uh, yeah, I was.
I was in a real estate talkingabout uh, drinking and and the
jewish thing, um, what's, what'sthis called?
Uh.
So I was in a meeting one timeand we were in a long conference
room and all of a sudden theystopped the meeting.

(01:18:22):
They brought in a bottle ofvodka, okay, and a fucking horn,
a sheep's horn, okay, yeah.
And we all blew the fuckinghorn Show part Right and drank a
shot of vodka.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
What is that?
The vodka part is not part ofthe whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
You sure?
Yeah, for sure.
They said like uh, they saidsomething when we drank it.
I mean they probably just saida blessing on the on the vodka
okay, so the vodka is not partof the vodka, it's not tied to
the horn.
Got nothing to do with the horn.
So what's the horn?

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
the horn is is, uh, we blow the horn, uh, 30 days
leading up to the new year, okay, um, and it's really why they
stopped the meeting, for it waslike a timing situation.
I don't know about the, aboutwhy they stopped the meeting,
but we were.
It's important to blow the hornevery day leading up to the new
year just to be able to wake.
Essentially, the idea is towake up the soul and to start

(01:19:09):
having yourself reflect on theyear that you've had and the
things that you want you know,your ambitions for the future
and what you could do to youknow to have for a new and
better year.
The vodka part is just for youto feel good and that's about it
, cool brother.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Thank you very much, man.
It was awesome.
Thank you, it was great.

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