August 26, 2025 • 31 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ed Mathews (00:49):
Greetings and salutations, Real Estate
Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews, again withthe Real Estate Underground.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I'm grateful that you make us apart of your day Today.
I have Shauna, The Tax Goddess,and Shauna, welcome to the show
.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I know this is a busy time ofyear for you.
September 15th is looming largeand so welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I know this is a busy time ofyear for you.
September 15th is looming largeand so welcome to the show.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (01:10):
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here and,yes, there's a deadline, but
you're giving me a respite fromthat thing.
Ed Mathews (01:18):
So obviously your name forebodes what we're going
to talk about today.
But for those folks who haven'tdiscovered you online or on
LinkedIn, or where we discoveredyou, why don't you tell us a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do for a living?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (01:29):
You got it.
So let me come at it from aslightly different perspective.
Everyone always thinks thattheir CPA the person preparing
their taxes is looking for everypossible strategy to possibly
minimize their taxes.
So that's where Tax Goddesscomes in.
We specialize in tax strategy,tax mitigation.
I am a CPA, I have a master'sin tax, certified tax, tax
(01:51):
professional certified taxstrategist, which, if you want
to get into what all thoselovely little initials mean, I'm
happy to.
Very long story short, it meanswe're the top of the top in the
tax strategy game.
Ed Mathews (02:02):
Specifically, and so who is your typical customer?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (02:05):
You always come from, of course,
nobody wants to pay tax.
But really what you're lookingat when you do look at those CTC
, really, as you start to getmore and more specialized,
that's when you start looking atwhat is really the right fit
for a CTC versus a CTS, forexample.
So, being a CTS, we're lookingfor people that are taking home
at least a million dollars ayear taxable, paying at least
(02:27):
$150,000 a year in tax Right Now.
That's not to mean that taxstrategy isn't for people paying
$20,000 worth of tax, becausewho wants to pay more than
you're legally required to pay,right?
So we do publish quite a lot ofinformation trying to make sure
that people know some of thestrategies that are out there.
So, even if you're working withjust your CPA, if you can
(02:50):
implement one strategy and thatsaves you $5,000 a year, that's
a lot of money.
So cool yeah.
Ed Mathews (02:58):
Yeah, okay, and obviously coming at this from a
we're at an interesting time andnot to get political, but I'm
going to get a little teeny,tiny bit political.
We're at an interesting time,we're recording this in the
second week of August and so thebig beautiful bill just passed
and there was a whole bunch ofgoodies in that bill from a real
estate perspective, and so I'mcurious about your perspective
(03:21):
on the items that were passedand how that affects our real
estate world.
Shauna The Tax Godde (03:27):
Absolutely In my mind.
There's really two big ones Now.
One of them, we had it, we lostit and it came back, which
makes me thrilled, and that, ofcourse, is the 100% depreciation
on big equipment or anything 15years or less as far as
property life.
So, especially in the realestate field, that's your cost
(03:47):
segregation all day, and I'msure it's a topic you've covered
.
So just mini, tiny recap youhave a building, you bought it
for a million dollars, you'rebreaking it down to its little
tiny components for three-yearlife, five-year life, seven-year
life and anything 15 years orless.
You basically get to write off100% of it in the first year.
Now, this is fabulous if you arethe real estate professional or
(04:10):
if you're going the short-termAirbnb type rentals where it's
less than seven days, average,that kind of thing Because
effectively, if you buy aproperty a year, you'll never
pay tax, never, ever again, andit's completely legal, which is
why the IRS actively huntsanyone that says they're a real
estate professional, right,especially if they have one
spouse that's like a W-2 and theother one is a real estate
(04:33):
professional.
Thrilled, I'm thrilled,thrilled that this thing came
back in.
Hopefully we get to keep it.
I never know, as you said,political I'm like it's here now
, it might be gone tomorrow.
Ed Mathews (04:43):
It all depends on who's driving the bus.
Shauna The Tax Godde (04:50):
Absolutely .
And there's one little tinycaveat here that a lot of people
didn't catch and it's alreadypissed off a couple of my
clients is it doesn't startuntil January 19th.
So if you bought that newHummer on January 18th, you're
SOL.
You don't get the depreciation,you don't get the specialty
stuff.
Ed Mathews (05:03):
Okay, so question there.
So we were talking about thatin the context of real estate,
right?
A boiler or a dishwasher orthings like that, anything to do
with the apartment buildingthat we own, right, but you also
mentioned a Hummer, and so doesthat also pertain to vehicles
and equipment and all that?
Tell me more about that.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (05:24):
It does.
So you have to be, of course,with vehicles, the IRS, very
high scrutiny on vehicles.
And I call it a Hummer becausewhen this whole thing came out
15 years ago about specialdepreciation and you could
massively write things off, thevery first thing everybody went
out and bought was a Hummer.
So they called it the Hummerlaw.
So it's always just stuck.
Ed Mathews (05:43):
Don't sort it out.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (05:44):
I think that's one of the things that
people don't really realize.
Heavy equipment, yes, it couldmean an air conditioning unit,
it could mean a fridge, it couldmean a boiler right, but heavy
equipment, if it's used forbusiness, can also mean vehicles
.
And so one of the things a minicat is a good example, those
little tractor things that drivearound and pick up dirt and
(06:05):
stuff.
So if you're actually on thesite doing construction, that
certainly works.
But Hummers Now, I think thebig thing here is you have to
look at the difference betweenmore than 6,000 pounds and less
than 6,000 pounds, and this iswhy the Hummer was a key,
because back in the day theHummers were more than 6,000.
why the Hummer was a key becauseback in the day the Hummers
(06:27):
were more than 6,000.
So now that we've seen this lawcome back into place, right,
more than 6,000 pound vehiclesthat are used, whatever
percentage, for business.
So let's say you do buy nowit's the G-Wagon, that's the big
thing everybody's buying, right.
So let's say you buy the$150,000 G-Wagon.
Ed Mathews (06:48):
If you use it 100% for business, it's a $150,000
write-off, if you have theincome to support that write-off
, and who defines, and how doyou define the percentage that
you use?
Because most people arethinking, okay, I'm going to wet
my thumb and wave in the airand go 92%, right, but that's
not the way it works.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:04):
You can't do whatever you want In
our world.
There's something called theaggression scale.
Okay, zero to 10.
Zero, meaning the IRS nevercalls you, never, ever, except
for a random audit.
10, meaning we're all going tojail.
Ed Mathews (07:15):
Leave on about a six .
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:18):
So a 10's going to jail.
A nine is out the phone doingshady stuff, hoping you don't
get caught.
That's this air thumb thing.
And eight is you're doingeverything legally.
You still might get a call, butlike you can prove it.
Ed Mathews (07:29):
I get ordered.
I just better not lose, exactlyyou want to win.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:32):
And so that's where a strategist comes
in and tells you here's all thelaws, right, detail, nitpicky.
So I will tell you the onething that our clients
absolutely hate about me andlove about me.
I will make you document allthe thing because it is not
worth messing around saying ohyeah, I drove at 98% for
business, but I had one car inthe family and nobody else has a
(07:52):
car, right, so you never wentgrocery shopping, you never went
to the movies, you never wentto pick up your mom for lunch,
right, so one of the easiest.
It's actually an app.
We've been using it now for 15years Mile Mile.
I'm in love with it.
It just runs in the background.
The only thing you have toremember is every morning, when
you're drinking your coffee orwhatever, go swipe left or right
for business or personal.
(08:13):
You got your mileage records.
There are few things that theIRS will hit on as almost
immediate red flags.
Mileage is one of them.
The whole thing about the W-2with a real estate professional
being married it's an automaticand it's not that you did
anything wrong.
It's just what they're lookingfor because they know people
abuse it.
Ed Mathews (08:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So that 10% that abuse itaffect all the other honest
people the other way around.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (08:37):
Yeah.
So listen really, if it evercomes to an audit, what you
really want to be able to do isthey'll send you a letter saying
prove this and this, and youwant to be able to send back a
super nice highlighted circledtapes totaled.
Here's my records.
You want to be able to send onepackage where the auditor opens
that document and goes, oh,they're one of these, their tax
(08:59):
got to slide.
They're so organized, they haveeverything that could possibly
be needed, right, why even look?
Because the auditors arelooking for places they can find
money, right, and if they knowyou're that organized, they're
not going to find anything.
Ed Mathews (09:12):
Yeah, it's minor at best, right.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (09:15):
Here's this receipt I forgot about.
Now you owe me 10.
Ed Mathews (09:17):
Years ago we got a letter from the IRS and my wife
is an accountant by trade.
We are that classic familywhere she's a W-2 and I'm a real
estate guy.
The letter hits our mailbox andI get home.
She's there with a paper bagbreathing into it.
I opened it up and we owed$16.85.
And I'm like I got it.
It was in the mailbox becausethe mailman had left our
(09:38):
neighborhood Happy to pay thatbill Didn't even look at it.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (09:40):
A lot of people a lawyer friend of mine
has always said I love peoplewith morals because people with
morals will spend a bunch ofmoney trying to get around.
Do whatever it is.
If you get a bill from the IRSthat you're happy with, who is
happy?
Ed Mathews (09:53):
but you're happy with $16?
.
Yeah, there could have been acouple of actually zeros behind
that.
Take the win.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:00):
Yep.
Ed Mathews (10:00):
Love it.
So you mentioned two things.
What was the other thing thatyou were we talking about
opportunity zones or I'veforgotten what the original
question was.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:09):
Would you mind asking me the original
question?
Ed Mathews (10:10):
As far as the big beautiful bill, there were a
handful of things that targetedreal estate folks like me and so
I'm curious about we justtalked about cost seg and the
bonus depreciation, one of myfavorite things in this little
bill.
I am not political in any way,shape or form, but I loved that
provision of that bill.
Forget the rest of it.
Who cares?
(10:31):
I do care, but not today.
What are some of the otherprovisions that kind of popped
out at you that we should talkabout?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:38):
The other one that really caught my
attention was the ability towrite off business interest,
because technically, businessinterest previously had been
capped at 70%.
So you took your income at 70%and here's how much you were
allowed to deduct with a 30%limit.
There were all these kind ofphase-ins, phase-outs.
They've upped that limitsignificantly and you get the
(10:58):
SALT deduction too.
But with the interest they'veadded back depreciation and
amortization, and when you docost seg and you have a
million-dollar right, yourtaxable income becomes very
small, which means that theamount of the interest you're
allowed to write off is alsovery small.
So now that they've allowed youto add back into your number
the depreciation, amortization,the amount you're allowed to
(11:20):
deduct as interest issignificantly higher, and so for
a lot of people those expenseswere just lost, they were just
gone.
So that one really caught myattention as well on the real
estate side.
Ed Mathews (11:32):
Yeah, and for those of us keeping score at home, you
also mentioned SALT, so forthose folks that aren't familiar
with that, can you tell meabout that?
Shauna The Tax Godde (11:39):
Absolutely Sorry, jargon.
Ed Mathews (11:41):
It's my job, oh yeah .
Shauna The Tax Goddess (11:43):
I love it.
Yes, salt stands for state andlocal taxes.
Ok, now, previous to four orfive years ago, if you lived in
California and you paid $100,000in tax to California, you got a
$100,000 write-off on yourSchedule A itemized deductions.
The SALT limitations came inand capped that at $10,000,
(12:05):
which for anybody making a goodamount of money is basically nil
.
Right, it means you couldn'tdeduct things like your car tags
and licenses, your propertytaxes Just property taxes alone
in many places is more than that, let alone income taxes you're
paying.
So this huge amount ofdeduction got capped.
Now they did.
It's not I'm not thrilled withit, but it's better than zero,
(12:28):
right.
They took this old cap from$10,000 to $40,000.
But key impacts here if youradjusted gross income is more
than $500,000 as a marriedcouple, you don't get it.
It starts phasing out and itgoes back down to $10,000.
They have promised it's notgoing to phase you out.
The max minimum is $10,000.
But if you can do tax strategy,other tax strategies to get
(12:50):
that taxable income down, stayunder the $500,000 limit, at
least you get the full amount of$40,000.
Now there's a key provision herethat has actually been
implemented.
When the original SALT law camein the 10K cap, many of the
states said, hey, we'll help youout, and they created something
called the PTE, thepass-through entity tax.
(13:13):
So if you have a business, apartnership, an S-corp, one of
the flow-through entitiesC-corps but if you've got one of
the flow-through entities, youcan actually have your business
pay the tax on your behalf andeffectively you get to double
dip it.
The tax has been paid and thebusiness gets a tax deduction
for it.
So you're actually making moneyif you have an S-corp or
(13:35):
Purchase Rep or LLC taxed as and, to be clear, your mileage may
vary because that's a stateprovision.
State by state.
It's a state provision, but thelast time I looked, a couple
months back, it was somethinglike 39 out of the 50 states, so
maybe not everybody, but yeah,I live in Connecticut, so
they're all heading thatdirection.
Ed Mathews (13:53):
I'm willing to.
To bet there's probablysomething that the governor
nailed us on there, but that'sneither here nor there.
We live here for other reasons.
In terms of the, you hadmentioned something that's near
and dear to my heart, and that'sdocumentation, and what I mean
by that is I'm a former techie,a recovering techie, really, and
so process and technology aremy thing.
(14:13):
No-transcript, what's not thatbig a deal, or is it?
(14:42):
Every piece of pulp that walksin the door needs to be
categorized?
What's your thinking on that?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (14:49):
I'm also , of course, huge on
documentation.
I take a photograph ofabsolutely everything.
Every document, anything that'sgot a number on it in any way
gets a photo taken of it.
Okay, for me, it's about havinga database, because if there's
an audit and they're saying,what's this?
$2,379, whatever, I useEvernote.
(15:14):
I tell our clients to useEvernote because Evernote has an
amazing search capability.
It'll search images, diagramsand receipts and all those
things.
So for just having a place tostore stuff that's easily
searchable, I'm a big fan ofEvernote.
The other comment here would bewhen you get to the point
because now we're talking aboutaccounting records you're lucky
because you have a built-in oneif your wife's helping you with
the accounting stuff.
Ed Mathews (15:33):
A long time ago I asked her hey, would you like to
partner?
And she goes you work verydifferently than I do and I much
prefer being married to youthan being your business partner
.
I'm like all right, okay, youlearned something new 37 some
odd years between dating andmarried, that she knows me well,
so that's okay, that's a goodthing.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (16:01):
And I think you've hit the nail on the
head.
I am a big believer of havingthe right team in place.
So when you get to the sizewhere you're trying to stay up
for that extra two hoursdrinking that extra cup of
coffee, trying to do your ownbookkeeping, hire a bookkeeper.
That's the job, that'sessentialized in yes, please do
not try to do things that arenot your specialty.
If you give me messy books, I'mgoing to send you to go get
them cleaned up by aprofessional, because I can't
even advise you, because I don'teven know what the real numbers
are.
Ed Mathews (16:22):
Yeah, and here's the thing.
We have a separate companycalled Clark Street Digital.
One of the primary things thatwe do for folks is bookkeeping.
We hire certified publicaccountants in the Philippines
for a very reasonable price.
We pay them very well relativeto their peers, but relative to
peers here it's apples and dumptrucks in terms of what we pay
(16:45):
and those folks.
We started doing it with ourown in-house and it turned out
so well that we started offeringit to some of our friends and
friends of friends, and prettysoon we grew a business.
And I'll tell you there arecertain things technologies we
use to make it easy.
The fact is that having someonehighly competent, highly
trained, educated, understandsprocess, understands they don't
(17:07):
need to understand the tax lawshere.
All they need to do isunderstand what we keep and what
we don't.
And your rule was probably avalid one, which is anything
with a number on it.
Take a picture, we keep it andput it somewhere.
You can find it and hopefullyyou never need it, but you might
.
And given that we're in thereal estate business, uncle Sam
is usually very curious aboutwhat folks like us.
(17:29):
What we do, it's better to.
There's a book that I read along time ago.
It's called Feeding the Bee,and it actually is.
It's a parallel to what we'retalking about here, but I think
it is apropos and it's anover-communication strategy so
that you can show them here'sinfinite detail.
Here's exactly what I'm doing,to the point where they grow in
confidence, go okay, all right,you've got it together, I don't
(17:51):
have to worry about you anymore.
And our relationship with ourtax entities is the exact same
way.
Right, we give them everything,even stuff they don't ask for,
because I want to takeeverything off the table in
terms of hey, what are you doing?
Right?
One, I like sleeping at night.
And two, it also cuts down onour professional costs because
(18:12):
the audit doesn't last threeyears.
It lasts a matter of a few daysto a few weeks.
Yeah, and that's it.
And so I'm only paying Shauna,the tax goddess, her million
dollar an hour salary for a veryshort period of time.
And just the simple act oftaking a picture and storing it
someplace where you can go getit when you need it, because you
will be audited, it's a reality.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (18:33):
Real estate.
Ed Mathews (18:34):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
I think the average is like oneor 2% plus.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (18:39):
So if you're a Schedule C, Schedule E,
it's 6% to 7%.
Add on top S-Corps are five toseven, partnerships five to
seven.
If you add on top the realestate professional, it's almost
35.
Wow, so you have a one in three.
So TikTok, it's only a matterof time.
Ed Mathews (18:54):
That's the context, right, and you want to be
spending your days hunting newdeals and meeting investors and
growing your business and takingcare of your properties and all
the other things you have to do.
You don't want to be sitting infor a fluorescent light in a
conference room talking tosomebody who you know nitpicking
every little piece of yourworld that I guarantee you
you're not going to remember,because I don't remember what I
(19:14):
had for breakfast, let alonewhat I spent at Staples in March
of 2019 or whatever.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:21):
Yeah, and it takes you all of 30
seconds.
You're already standing at theStaples counter.
You've just gotten the receiptin your hand, put it down on the
counter, snap a picture andthen you can throw away the
receipt.
What do you?
Ed Mathews (19:31):
want I'm fine.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:32):
Now, actually, it's an interesting
commentary.
It will be interesting to seewhere the AI comes in, because
it used to be that a photo of areceipt was just as good as a
receipt itself, but now the AIcan create anything it wants.
So I don't know if this willaccept photo.
Ed Mathews (19:45):
OK.
So if you want to entertainwire fraud and other versions of
fraud to get over on a ninedollar trip to Staples, Hats off
to you there, my friend.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:57):
When I'm coming at it the other way, say
at what point does the IRS sayI don't know if that receipt is
valid or an AI-generated receipt?
Ed Mathews (20:11):
Yeah, there's no way to know.
Just look at, go on TikTok andlook at the videos that are
being made which ones are thehuman being and which ones are
coming off of VO3 or whateverelse is out there.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (20:18):
What's the famous one right now?
Little bunny rabbits jumping onthe trampoline, or something.
Ed Mathews (20:21):
Babies talking like adults, which I think is
hilarious, and the Sasquatchesand all those are hilarious, but
it's really hard to tell thedifference between the real and
the fake.
Yikes, yeah, so, okay, yeah.
(20:58):
So just take a picture.
And MileIQ is a godsend, I'lltell you.
It is something it's always onmy phone and the one thing that
I'm bad about is doing theswiping, but I can usually tell
by the address that I went towhat I was doing.
And then I go back to mycalendar if I really have to and
I go.
Okay, I knew where I was andwhen.
In doubt, I, but very rarely,because it's usually it's not my
calendar.
It never happened.
So, ah, cheers, right, okay, solet's get into the final five
I'm always curious aboutobviously you run, you are
tremendously successful andnevertheless you get out of bed
on Monday morning and go to workand help your clients.
So for me that's purpose andI'm curious how you define
purpose in your life.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (21:16):
Yeah, absolutely the same thing.
Multiple people have saidShauna, why don't you retire?
Why don't you do whatever?
I'm like, what am I going to dowith my day?
Like for me, I love helpingpeople.
Like, we just surpassed $2billion in savings for our
clients.
Ed Mathews (21:29):
Wow, congratulations .
Oh, my goodness.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (21:31):
Let's go for $10.
Let's go for $100.
Like I'm in, right, that'sreally when I get.
They're heartwarming storiesright.
One of the very first storiesthat really settled in my mind
about why I do what I do, clienthad come in, started doing what
we call a TC, a strategic taxcoaching program.
That's how we help people.
(21:52):
Very long story short.
She left.
She came back a couple of monthslater.
We were going over her plan andshe couldn't stop crying.
She was like, her eyes were redand I'm like are you a penny?
Do we need to stop the meeting?
And she said I just found outthat my five-year-old son has
cancer and I don't know how I'mgoing to pay for it.
Could you imagine as a parent?
And I said listen, here's thedeal, right, stop the meeting,
(22:12):
we thing.
Because of the choices andthings you've already done, you
saved yourself about $60,000 intaxes.
You have the money, goosebumps,even today.
I mean she just said that's thekind of stuff that I'm lucky
enough to be able to bring topeople that they don't even know
that they have hidden sourcesof cash that can change their
life.
Ed Mathews (22:31):
Right, that, what an amazing story and wow, that's
really cool.
So I'm also curious about,obviously, being the successful
professional that you are,you've had help right.
Life is a team sport Process.
Growing a firm is a team sport.
Real estate is absolutely ateam sport, and so I'm curious
about the mentors you've had inyour life over time and,
(22:53):
specifically, what's the bestadvice you ever got and who gave
it to you?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (22:57):
I'll come back to the mentor's
question.
The best piece of advice I evergot was life isn't going your
way, Don't have a good cry andthen pull up your pants and get
on with it.
Because that actually came frommy mother, Because when I
started my business it wasalways supposed to be me and a
secretary in a home office.
I grew the firm to 123 people.
We've got huge teams thatalways, when anything goes wrong
(23:20):
, it's life right.
When anything goes wrong, I'mlike, okay, get on with it,
because that's all you canreally do.
But I've been lucky enough alongthe way.
I've had good business coaches,like general business coaches,
good sales coaches.
If you're not a salesperson,it's a good skill to have, no
matter what you're doing.
I'd also say some just reallygood people that will actually
tell you the truth, becausesometimes you get surrounded by
(23:41):
people that are like, yeah, sothat's a brilliant idea when
it's really not and it was a badmove and nobody told you
because they didn't want to hurtyour feelings.
I'd much rather have a friendsay listen, you and I need a
tequila shot because I have somenews to tell you.
I would much rather have thatin my life.
If you can find those people.
Hold on to them.
Ed Mathews (23:58):
Yeah, I'll tell you, I had this mentor.
His name's Mike Gonnerman God,he's got to be in his mid-80s at
this point.
He was the CFO of a companythat I worked for back in the
late 90s early 2000s.
That company ran into a brickwall, but Mike and I got to be
friends.
I started off a consulting firmback in the early 2000s.
I was probably I don't knowyoung 30s.
(24:19):
I would meet Mike for breakfastat the Newton Marriott in
Boston, just outside Boston,once a month.
I'd have a little slide deckthat I would have prepared and
it was the list of things thatI'm doing to conquer the world
and he would let me ramble onfor 15 or 20 minutes and the
eggs would come and we'd starteating and he'd go okay, here
are the 19 things you'rescrewing up and here's how you
(24:42):
fix them Right.
And it was valuable.
He saved me from so many dumbthings and most of the time I
actually listened to him, thankGod.
A 30 year old dude thought hewas really stinking smart.
It was only so much, and thefact is that's invaluable, and I
tell people when I bring themonto our team.
I was like, look, I don't haveto be right, we just have to get
(25:03):
it right.
If I need someone to be acheerleader, I'll go buy my mom
breakfast right, and she'll talkabout all the wonderful things
that are going on and I havethat in my life and she's
wonderful.
But what I need is you to hitme between the eyes with exactly
what's going on.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:18):
Truth, facts.
Give me the details.
Ed Mathews (25:20):
I couldn't agree more with you.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:21):
Love it.
Ed Mathews (25:22):
So I'm also curious about because one of the times
that I didn't listen to Mikewere big mistakes and there are
several decisions I would loveto have back.
So I'm curious about a decisionthat you made over the course
of your career that you lookback on and go, boy, if I had
that one back, it would berevolutionary, because I know
exactly what, knowing what Iknow today, right.
(25:42):
So I'm curious what mistake doyou look back on, or decision
that you look back on and go,wow, I'd really like to have
that one back and what'd you doabout it?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:51):
So, good or bad, I'm a very trusting
person, right, and the mistakewas trust without inspection.
I'm a very trusting person,right, and the mistake was trust
without inspection.
So the fix is now inspect whatyou expect and I've changed it
now because now there is there'sreporting in KPIs and show me
the work, show me the goods,show me.
And I think if I had reallytaken that to heart when I was a
little bit younger, there wouldhave been some things that
(26:13):
wouldn't have happened, whichwould have been nice.
Ed Mathews (26:16):
Absolutely Okay.
All right, fair enough.
So I'm also always interestedin, and I know you're incredibly
busy, but I also find thatleaders like you and me for that
matter tend to take ininformation and sharpen that saw
on a very regular basis, and soI'm curious about the book,
physical or otherwise.
That's on metaphoric nightstand, right, whether it's on your
(26:37):
iPhone or it's on your laptop orwhatever, but I'm curious about
that book on your nightstandand who you're paying attention
to these days.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (26:44):
I love it.
So at the moment I am in alittle bit more of a reflective
phase.
So I am actually reading a bookand it's literally sitting on
my counter the Daily StoicJournal by a guy named Ryan
Holiday.
It comes in a two-pack rightOne is a journal and the other
one is telling you about thetheory, why the Stoics did what
they did and where it came from.
(27:06):
And it's interesting to do alittle bit more of the
introspection, because generallyI'm looking at everything
outside, looking at otherpeople's issues and questions
and details, and so it's beenfascinating.
I'm about 30 days in and I'mgoing ooh, I didn't realize.
That's why I thought what Ithought.
Ed Mathews (27:21):
So it's interesting because I feel like it teaches
you Fascinated by stoicism, andit's something that I've learned
very late in my midlife becauseI tend to be a emotional, fiery
kind of strong personality.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (27:33):
So stoicism is.
Ed Mathews (27:34):
I'm Irish.
So there you go.
Yeah, so I'm Irish.
So, yeah, the last thing thatI'm very curious about, and you
mentioned growing from you andan administrative assistant to
one hundred and twenty threeplus people in your firm.
Congratulations, by the way.
I'm curious, get it.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (27:50):
For me it's the ability to do that
instead of having to dosomething else.
So I get to rather than I haveto A hundred percent and little
things, like I've got three dogsand if it's eleven, twenty
three in the morning and Idecide I want to pet tummies,
then that's what I do.
(28:11):
You know, so freedom and I thinkthat's to me that's the
ultimate entrepreneurial goal isI will work my fingers to the
bone, but when I decide thatit's lunchtime and I want a pet
puppy tummy, then that's whatI'm doing, and I'll tell you.
Ed Mathews (28:25):
I don't know if you know this, but dogs are way
better than human beings.
So we have three dogs too.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (28:31):
Live on camera.
Ed Mathews (28:34):
So we have two Goldens a Snowball and a regular
Golden, who are awesome.
The Snowball is dumb as pastebut she's a sweetheart.
And then we have a littleChi-Chi.
I just put her on my TikTokbecause she had her nails
clipped and she was very brave.
So we celebrated that at theMatthews house and actually she
wasn't brave.
She was brave, according to mydaughter.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (28:54):
Much more important.
Ed Mathews (28:55):
Yeah, I'm a big dog, percy 100% agreed On this end.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (29:00):
Let's see, I've got my biggest girl.
She's about 135 pounds, she's aConnie Corso Great Dane mix, my
big tank.
I've got a male German Shepherdat about 85 pounds and then I
call him my mixed berry.
He's 55 pounds but he's gothusky and terrier and sharpay
and I think his DNA test cameback and literally said super
(29:23):
mutt, everything, all the things.
But, I have a little like farmon my property and I have no
steaks, no rats, no, nothing.
He can have full run of theproperty, which is there you go,
problem solved, sean.
Ed Mathews (29:35):
I've really enjoyed this conversation.
When you are not savingentrepreneurs from the tax man,
what do you like to do?
How do you spend your time?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (29:43):
Oh, probably out in the garden.
So just imagine a little farm.
We raise quail, in the winterwe raise rabbits, and I've got
88 fruit trees on the property.
So I mess around in the garden.
Ed Mathews (29:54):
Awesome, and if people want to learn more about
you or your firm or all thethings that you're doing, what's
the best way to do that?
Shauna The Tax Godde (30:01):
TaxGoddess .
com Super easy to find.
Ed Mathews (30:04):
All right, shauna, the Tax Goddess, thank you so
much for your time.
It was truly a pleasure.
I wish you continued goodfortune and hopefully we'll get
to talk again soon.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (30:13):
Sounds like a plan.
Greetings and salutations, Real Estate
Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews, again withthe Real Estate Underground.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I'm grateful that you make us apart of your day Today.
I have Shauna, The Tax Goddess,and Shauna, welcome to the show
.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I know this is a busy time ofyear for you.
September 15th is looming largeand so welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I know this is a busy time ofyear for you.
September 15th is looming largeand so welcome to the show.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (01:10):
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here and,yes, there's a deadline, but
you're giving me a respite fromthat thing.
Ed Mathews (01:18):
So obviously your name forebodes what we're going
to talk about today.
But for those folks who haven'tdiscovered you online or on
LinkedIn, or where we discoveredyou, why don't you tell us a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do for a living?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (01:29):
You got it.
So let me come at it from aslightly different perspective.
Everyone always thinks thattheir CPA the person preparing
their taxes is looking for everypossible strategy to possibly
minimize their taxes.
So that's where Tax Goddesscomes in.
We specialize in tax strategy,tax mitigation.
I am a CPA, I have a master'sin tax, certified tax, tax
(01:51):
professional certified taxstrategist, which, if you want
to get into what all thoselovely little initials mean, I'm
happy to.
Very long story short, it meanswe're the top of the top in the
tax strategy game.
Ed Mathews (02:02):
Specifically, and so who is your typical customer?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (02:05):
You always come from, of course,
nobody wants to pay tax.
But really what you're lookingat when you do look at those CTC
, really, as you start to getmore and more specialized,
that's when you start looking atwhat is really the right fit
for a CTC versus a CTS, forexample.
So, being a CTS, we're lookingfor people that are taking home
at least a million dollars ayear taxable, paying at least
(02:27):
$150,000 a year in tax Right Now.
That's not to mean that taxstrategy isn't for people paying
$20,000 worth of tax, becausewho wants to pay more than
you're legally required to pay,right?
So we do publish quite a lot ofinformation trying to make sure
that people know some of thestrategies that are out there.
So, even if you're working withjust your CPA, if you can
(02:50):
implement one strategy and thatsaves you $5,000 a year, that's
a lot of money.
So cool yeah.
Ed Mathews (02:58):
Yeah, okay, and obviously coming at this from a
we're at an interesting time andnot to get political, but I'm
going to get a little teeny,tiny bit political.
We're at an interesting time,we're recording this in the
second week of August and so thebig beautiful bill just passed
and there was a whole bunch ofgoodies in that bill from a real
estate perspective, and so I'mcurious about your perspective
(03:21):
on the items that were passedand how that affects our real
estate world.
Shauna The Tax Godde (03:27):
Absolutely In my mind.
There's really two big ones Now.
One of them, we had it, we lostit and it came back, which
makes me thrilled, and that, ofcourse, is the 100% depreciation
on big equipment or anything 15years or less as far as
property life.
So, especially in the realestate field, that's your cost
(03:47):
segregation all day, and I'msure it's a topic you've covered
.
So just mini, tiny recap youhave a building, you bought it
for a million dollars, you'rebreaking it down to its little
tiny components for three-yearlife, five-year life, seven-year
life and anything 15 years orless.
You basically get to write off100% of it in the first year.
Now, this is fabulous if you arethe real estate professional or
(04:10):
if you're going the short-termAirbnb type rentals where it's
less than seven days, average,that kind of thing Because
effectively, if you buy aproperty a year, you'll never
pay tax, never, ever again, andit's completely legal, which is
why the IRS actively huntsanyone that says they're a real
estate professional, right,especially if they have one
spouse that's like a W-2 and theother one is a real estate
(04:33):
professional.
Thrilled, I'm thrilled,thrilled that this thing came
back in.
Hopefully we get to keep it.
I never know, as you said,political I'm like it's here now
, it might be gone tomorrow.
Ed Mathews (04:43):
It all depends on who's driving the bus.
Shauna The Tax Godde (04:50):
Absolutely .
And there's one little tinycaveat here that a lot of people
didn't catch and it's alreadypissed off a couple of my
clients is it doesn't startuntil January 19th.
So if you bought that newHummer on January 18th, you're
SOL.
You don't get the depreciation,you don't get the specialty
stuff.
Ed Mathews (05:03):
Okay, so question there.
So we were talking about thatin the context of real estate,
right?
A boiler or a dishwasher orthings like that, anything to do
with the apartment buildingthat we own, right, but you also
mentioned a Hummer, and so doesthat also pertain to vehicles
and equipment and all that?
Tell me more about that.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (05:24):
It does.
So you have to be, of course,with vehicles, the IRS, very
high scrutiny on vehicles.
And I call it a Hummer becausewhen this whole thing came out
15 years ago about specialdepreciation and you could
massively write things off, thevery first thing everybody went
out and bought was a Hummer.
So they called it the Hummerlaw.
So it's always just stuck.
Ed Mathews (05:43):
Don't sort it out.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (05:44):
I think that's one of the things that
people don't really realize.
Heavy equipment, yes, it couldmean an air conditioning unit,
it could mean a fridge, it couldmean a boiler right, but heavy
equipment, if it's used forbusiness, can also mean vehicles
.
And so one of the things a minicat is a good example, those
little tractor things that drivearound and pick up dirt and
(06:05):
stuff.
So if you're actually on thesite doing construction, that
certainly works.
But Hummers Now, I think thebig thing here is you have to
look at the difference betweenmore than 6,000 pounds and less
than 6,000 pounds, and this iswhy the Hummer was a key,
because back in the day theHummers were more than 6,000.
why the Hummer was a key becauseback in the day the Hummers
(06:27):
were more than 6,000.
So now that we've seen this lawcome back into place, right,
more than 6,000 pound vehiclesthat are used, whatever
percentage, for business.
So let's say you do buy nowit's the G-Wagon, that's the big
thing everybody's buying, right.
So let's say you buy the$150,000 G-Wagon.
Ed Mathews (06:48):
If you use it 100% for business, it's a $150,000
write-off, if you have theincome to support that write-off
, and who defines, and how doyou define the percentage that
you use?
Because most people arethinking, okay, I'm going to wet
my thumb and wave in the airand go 92%, right, but that's
not the way it works.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:04):
You can't do whatever you want In
our world.
There's something called theaggression scale.
Okay, zero to 10.
Zero, meaning the IRS nevercalls you, never, ever, except
for a random audit.
10, meaning we're all going tojail.
Ed Mathews (07:15):
Leave on about a six .
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:18):
So a 10's going to jail.
A nine is out the phone doingshady stuff, hoping you don't
get caught.
That's this air thumb thing.
And eight is you're doingeverything legally.
You still might get a call, butlike you can prove it.
Ed Mathews (07:29):
I get ordered.
I just better not lose, exactlyyou want to win.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (07:32):
And so that's where a strategist comes
in and tells you here's all thelaws, right, detail, nitpicky.
So I will tell you the onething that our clients
absolutely hate about me andlove about me.
I will make you document allthe thing because it is not
worth messing around saying ohyeah, I drove at 98% for
business, but I had one car inthe family and nobody else has a
(07:52):
car, right, so you never wentgrocery shopping, you never went
to the movies, you never wentto pick up your mom for lunch,
right, so one of the easiest.
It's actually an app.
We've been using it now for 15years Mile Mile.
I'm in love with it.
It just runs in the background.
The only thing you have toremember is every morning, when
you're drinking your coffee orwhatever, go swipe left or right
for business or personal.
(08:13):
You got your mileage records.
There are few things that theIRS will hit on as almost
immediate red flags.
Mileage is one of them.
The whole thing about the W-2with a real estate professional
being married it's an automaticand it's not that you did
anything wrong.
It's just what they're lookingfor because they know people
abuse it.
Ed Mathews (08:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So that 10% that abuse itaffect all the other honest
people the other way around.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (08:37):
Yeah.
So listen really, if it evercomes to an audit, what you
really want to be able to do isthey'll send you a letter saying
prove this and this, and youwant to be able to send back a
super nice highlighted circledtapes totaled.
Here's my records.
You want to be able to send onepackage where the auditor opens
that document and goes, oh,they're one of these, their tax
(08:59):
got to slide.
They're so organized, they haveeverything that could possibly
be needed, right, why even look?
Because the auditors arelooking for places they can find
money, right, and if they knowyou're that organized, they're
not going to find anything.
Ed Mathews (09:12):
Yeah, it's minor at best, right.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (09:15):
Here's this receipt I forgot about.
Now you owe me 10.
Ed Mathews (09:17):
Years ago we got a letter from the IRS and my wife
is an accountant by trade.
We are that classic familywhere she's a W-2 and I'm a real
estate guy.
The letter hits our mailbox andI get home.
She's there with a paper bagbreathing into it.
I opened it up and we owed$16.85.
And I'm like I got it.
It was in the mailbox becausethe mailman had left our
(09:38):
neighborhood Happy to pay thatbill Didn't even look at it.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (09:40):
A lot of people a lawyer friend of mine
has always said I love peoplewith morals because people with
morals will spend a bunch ofmoney trying to get around.
Do whatever it is.
If you get a bill from the IRSthat you're happy with, who is
happy?
Ed Mathews (09:53):
but you're happy with $16?
.
Yeah, there could have been acouple of actually zeros behind
that.
Take the win.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:00):
Yep.
Ed Mathews (10:00):
Love it.
So you mentioned two things.
What was the other thing thatyou were we talking about
opportunity zones or I'veforgotten what the original
question was.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:09):
Would you mind asking me the original
question?
Ed Mathews (10:10):
As far as the big beautiful bill, there were a
handful of things that targetedreal estate folks like me and so
I'm curious about we justtalked about cost seg and the
bonus depreciation, one of myfavorite things in this little
bill.
I am not political in any way,shape or form, but I loved that
provision of that bill.
Forget the rest of it.
Who cares?
(10:31):
I do care, but not today.
What are some of the otherprovisions that kind of popped
out at you that we should talkabout?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (10:38):
The other one that really caught my
attention was the ability towrite off business interest,
because technically, businessinterest previously had been
capped at 70%.
So you took your income at 70%and here's how much you were
allowed to deduct with a 30%limit.
There were all these kind ofphase-ins, phase-outs.
They've upped that limitsignificantly and you get the
(10:58):
SALT deduction too.
But with the interest they'veadded back depreciation and
amortization, and when you docost seg and you have a
million-dollar right, yourtaxable income becomes very
small, which means that theamount of the interest you're
allowed to write off is alsovery small.
So now that they've allowed youto add back into your number
the depreciation, amortization,the amount you're allowed to
(11:20):
deduct as interest issignificantly higher, and so for
a lot of people those expenseswere just lost, they were just
gone.
So that one really caught myattention as well on the real
estate side.
Ed Mathews (11:32):
Yeah, and for those of us keeping score at home, you
also mentioned SALT, so forthose folks that aren't familiar
with that, can you tell meabout that?
Shauna The Tax Godde (11:39):
Absolutely Sorry, jargon.
Ed Mathews (11:41):
It's my job, oh yeah .
Shauna The Tax Goddess (11:43):
I love it.
Yes, salt stands for state andlocal taxes.
Ok, now, previous to four orfive years ago, if you lived in
California and you paid $100,000in tax to California, you got a
$100,000 write-off on yourSchedule A itemized deductions.
The SALT limitations came inand capped that at $10,000,
(12:05):
which for anybody making a goodamount of money is basically nil
.
Right, it means you couldn'tdeduct things like your car tags
and licenses, your propertytaxes Just property taxes alone
in many places is more than that, let alone income taxes you're
paying.
So this huge amount ofdeduction got capped.
Now they did.
It's not I'm not thrilled withit, but it's better than zero,
(12:28):
right.
They took this old cap from$10,000 to $40,000.
But key impacts here if youradjusted gross income is more
than $500,000 as a marriedcouple, you don't get it.
It starts phasing out and itgoes back down to $10,000.
They have promised it's notgoing to phase you out.
The max minimum is $10,000.
But if you can do tax strategy,other tax strategies to get
(12:50):
that taxable income down, stayunder the $500,000 limit, at
least you get the full amount of$40,000.
Now there's a key provision herethat has actually been
implemented.
When the original SALT law camein the 10K cap, many of the
states said, hey, we'll help youout, and they created something
called the PTE, thepass-through entity tax.
(13:13):
So if you have a business, apartnership, an S-corp, one of
the flow-through entitiesC-corps but if you've got one of
the flow-through entities, youcan actually have your business
pay the tax on your behalf andeffectively you get to double
dip it.
The tax has been paid and thebusiness gets a tax deduction
for it.
So you're actually making moneyif you have an S-corp or
(13:35):
Purchase Rep or LLC taxed as and, to be clear, your mileage may
vary because that's a stateprovision.
State by state.
It's a state provision, but thelast time I looked, a couple
months back, it was somethinglike 39 out of the 50 states, so
maybe not everybody, but yeah,I live in Connecticut, so
they're all heading thatdirection.
Ed Mathews (13:53):
I'm willing to.
To bet there's probablysomething that the governor
nailed us on there, but that'sneither here nor there.
We live here for other reasons.
In terms of the, you hadmentioned something that's near
and dear to my heart, and that'sdocumentation, and what I mean
by that is I'm a former techie,a recovering techie, really, and
so process and technology aremy thing.
(14:13):
No-transcript, what's not thatbig a deal, or is it?
(14:42):
Every piece of pulp that walksin the door needs to be
categorized?
What's your thinking on that?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (14:49):
I'm also , of course, huge on
documentation.
I take a photograph ofabsolutely everything.
Every document, anything that'sgot a number on it in any way
gets a photo taken of it.
Okay, for me, it's about havinga database, because if there's
an audit and they're saying,what's this?
$2,379, whatever, I useEvernote.
(15:14):
I tell our clients to useEvernote because Evernote has an
amazing search capability.
It'll search images, diagramsand receipts and all those
things.
So for just having a place tostore stuff that's easily
searchable, I'm a big fan ofEvernote.
The other comment here would bewhen you get to the point
because now we're talking aboutaccounting records you're lucky
because you have a built-in oneif your wife's helping you with
the accounting stuff.
Ed Mathews (15:33):
A long time ago I asked her hey, would you like to
partner?
And she goes you work verydifferently than I do and I much
prefer being married to youthan being your business partner
.
I'm like all right, okay, youlearned something new 37 some
odd years between dating andmarried, that she knows me well,
so that's okay, that's a goodthing.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (16:01):
And I think you've hit the nail on the
head.
I am a big believer of havingthe right team in place.
So when you get to the sizewhere you're trying to stay up
for that extra two hoursdrinking that extra cup of
coffee, trying to do your ownbookkeeping, hire a bookkeeper.
That's the job, that'sessentialized in yes, please do
not try to do things that arenot your specialty.
If you give me messy books, I'mgoing to send you to go get
them cleaned up by aprofessional, because I can't
even advise you, because I don'teven know what the real numbers
are.
Ed Mathews (16:22):
Yeah, and here's the thing.
We have a separate companycalled Clark Street Digital.
One of the primary things thatwe do for folks is bookkeeping.
We hire certified publicaccountants in the Philippines
for a very reasonable price.
We pay them very well relativeto their peers, but relative to
peers here it's apples and dumptrucks in terms of what we pay
(16:45):
and those folks.
We started doing it with ourown in-house and it turned out
so well that we started offeringit to some of our friends and
friends of friends, and prettysoon we grew a business.
And I'll tell you there arecertain things technologies we
use to make it easy.
The fact is that having someonehighly competent, highly
trained, educated, understandsprocess, understands they don't
(17:07):
need to understand the tax lawshere.
All they need to do isunderstand what we keep and what
we don't.
And your rule was probably avalid one, which is anything
with a number on it.
Take a picture, we keep it andput it somewhere.
You can find it and hopefullyyou never need it, but you might
.
And given that we're in thereal estate business, uncle Sam
is usually very curious aboutwhat folks like us.
(17:29):
What we do, it's better to.
There's a book that I read along time ago.
It's called Feeding the Bee,and it actually is.
It's a parallel to what we'retalking about here, but I think
it is apropos and it's anover-communication strategy so
that you can show them here'sinfinite detail.
Here's exactly what I'm doing,to the point where they grow in
confidence, go okay, all right,you've got it together, I don't
(17:51):
have to worry about you anymore.
And our relationship with ourtax entities is the exact same
way.
Right, we give them everything,even stuff they don't ask for,
because I want to takeeverything off the table in
terms of hey, what are you doing?
Right?
One, I like sleeping at night.
And two, it also cuts down onour professional costs because
(18:12):
the audit doesn't last threeyears.
It lasts a matter of a few daysto a few weeks.
Yeah, and that's it.
And so I'm only paying Shauna,the tax goddess, her million
dollar an hour salary for a veryshort period of time.
And just the simple act oftaking a picture and storing it
someplace where you can go getit when you need it, because you
will be audited, it's a reality.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (18:33):
Real estate.
Ed Mathews (18:34):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
I think the average is like oneor 2% plus.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (18:39):
So if you're a Schedule C, Schedule E,
it's 6% to 7%.
Add on top S-Corps are five toseven, partnerships five to
seven.
If you add on top the realestate professional, it's almost
35.
Wow, so you have a one in three.
So TikTok, it's only a matterof time.
Ed Mathews (18:54):
That's the context, right, and you want to be
spending your days hunting newdeals and meeting investors and
growing your business and takingcare of your properties and all
the other things you have to do.
You don't want to be sitting infor a fluorescent light in a
conference room talking tosomebody who you know nitpicking
every little piece of yourworld that I guarantee you
you're not going to remember,because I don't remember what I
(19:14):
had for breakfast, let alonewhat I spent at Staples in March
of 2019 or whatever.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:21):
Yeah, and it takes you all of 30
seconds.
You're already standing at theStaples counter.
You've just gotten the receiptin your hand, put it down on the
counter, snap a picture andthen you can throw away the
receipt.
What do you?
Ed Mathews (19:31):
want I'm fine.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:32):
Now, actually, it's an interesting
commentary.
It will be interesting to seewhere the AI comes in, because
it used to be that a photo of areceipt was just as good as a
receipt itself, but now the AIcan create anything it wants.
So I don't know if this willaccept photo.
Ed Mathews (19:45):
OK.
So if you want to entertainwire fraud and other versions of
fraud to get over on a ninedollar trip to Staples, Hats off
to you there, my friend.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (19:57):
When I'm coming at it the other way, say
at what point does the IRS sayI don't know if that receipt is
valid or an AI-generated receipt?
Ed Mathews (20:11):
Yeah, there's no way to know.
Just look at, go on TikTok andlook at the videos that are
being made which ones are thehuman being and which ones are
coming off of VO3 or whateverelse is out there.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (20:18):
What's the famous one right now?
Little bunny rabbits jumping onthe trampoline, or something.
Ed Mathews (20:21):
Babies talking like adults, which I think is
hilarious, and the Sasquatchesand all those are hilarious, but
it's really hard to tell thedifference between the real and
the fake.
Yikes, yeah, so, okay, yeah.
(20:58):
So just take a picture.
And MileIQ is a godsend, I'lltell you.
It is something it's always onmy phone and the one thing that
I'm bad about is doing theswiping, but I can usually tell
by the address that I went towhat I was doing.
And then I go back to mycalendar if I really have to and
I go.
Okay, I knew where I was andwhen.
In doubt, I, but very rarely,because it's usually it's not my
calendar.
It never happened.
So, ah, cheers, right, okay, solet's get into the final five
I'm always curious aboutobviously you run, you are
tremendously successful andnevertheless you get out of bed
on Monday morning and go to workand help your clients.
So for me that's purpose andI'm curious how you define
purpose in your life.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (21:16):
Yeah, absolutely the same thing.
Multiple people have saidShauna, why don't you retire?
Why don't you do whatever?
I'm like, what am I going to dowith my day?
Like for me, I love helpingpeople.
Like, we just surpassed $2billion in savings for our
clients.
Ed Mathews (21:29):
Wow, congratulations .
Oh, my goodness.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (21:31):
Let's go for $10.
Let's go for $100.
Like I'm in, right, that'sreally when I get.
They're heartwarming storiesright.
One of the very first storiesthat really settled in my mind
about why I do what I do, clienthad come in, started doing what
we call a TC, a strategic taxcoaching program.
That's how we help people.
(21:52):
Very long story short.
She left.
She came back a couple of monthslater.
We were going over her plan andshe couldn't stop crying.
She was like, her eyes were redand I'm like are you a penny?
Do we need to stop the meeting?
And she said I just found outthat my five-year-old son has
cancer and I don't know how I'mgoing to pay for it.
Could you imagine as a parent?
And I said listen, here's thedeal, right, stop the meeting,
(22:12):
we thing.
Because of the choices andthings you've already done, you
saved yourself about $60,000 intaxes.
You have the money, goosebumps,even today.
I mean she just said that's thekind of stuff that I'm lucky
enough to be able to bring topeople that they don't even know
that they have hidden sourcesof cash that can change their
life.
Ed Mathews (22:31):
Right, that, what an amazing story and wow, that's
really cool.
So I'm also curious about,obviously, being the successful
professional that you are,you've had help right.
Life is a team sport Process.
Growing a firm is a team sport.
Real estate is absolutely ateam sport, and so I'm curious
about the mentors you've had inyour life over time and,
(22:53):
specifically, what's the bestadvice you ever got and who gave
it to you?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (22:57):
I'll come back to the mentor's
question.
The best piece of advice I evergot was life isn't going your
way, Don't have a good cry andthen pull up your pants and get
on with it.
Because that actually came frommy mother, Because when I
started my business it wasalways supposed to be me and a
secretary in a home office.
I grew the firm to 123 people.
We've got huge teams thatalways, when anything goes wrong
(23:20):
, it's life right.
When anything goes wrong, I'mlike, okay, get on with it,
because that's all you canreally do.
But I've been lucky enough alongthe way.
I've had good business coaches,like general business coaches,
good sales coaches.
If you're not a salesperson,it's a good skill to have, no
matter what you're doing.
I'd also say some just reallygood people that will actually
tell you the truth, becausesometimes you get surrounded by
(23:41):
people that are like, yeah, sothat's a brilliant idea when
it's really not and it was a badmove and nobody told you
because they didn't want to hurtyour feelings.
I'd much rather have a friendsay listen, you and I need a
tequila shot because I have somenews to tell you.
I would much rather have thatin my life.
If you can find those people.
Hold on to them.
Ed Mathews (23:58):
Yeah, I'll tell you, I had this mentor.
His name's Mike Gonnerman God,he's got to be in his mid-80s at
this point.
He was the CFO of a companythat I worked for back in the
late 90s early 2000s.
That company ran into a brickwall, but Mike and I got to be
friends.
I started off a consulting firmback in the early 2000s.
I was probably I don't knowyoung 30s.
(24:19):
I would meet Mike for breakfastat the Newton Marriott in
Boston, just outside Boston,once a month.
I'd have a little slide deckthat I would have prepared and
it was the list of things thatI'm doing to conquer the world
and he would let me ramble onfor 15 or 20 minutes and the
eggs would come and we'd starteating and he'd go okay, here
are the 19 things you'rescrewing up and here's how you
(24:42):
fix them Right.
And it was valuable.
He saved me from so many dumbthings and most of the time I
actually listened to him, thankGod.
A 30 year old dude thought hewas really stinking smart.
It was only so much, and thefact is that's invaluable, and I
tell people when I bring themonto our team.
I was like, look, I don't haveto be right, we just have to get
(25:03):
it right.
If I need someone to be acheerleader, I'll go buy my mom
breakfast right, and she'll talkabout all the wonderful things
that are going on and I havethat in my life and she's
wonderful.
But what I need is you to hitme between the eyes with exactly
what's going on.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:18):
Truth, facts.
Give me the details.
Ed Mathews (25:20):
I couldn't agree more with you.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:21):
Love it.
Ed Mathews (25:22):
So I'm also curious about because one of the times
that I didn't listen to Mikewere big mistakes and there are
several decisions I would loveto have back.
So I'm curious about a decisionthat you made over the course
of your career that you lookback on and go, boy, if I had
that one back, it would berevolutionary, because I know
exactly what, knowing what Iknow today, right.
(25:42):
So I'm curious what mistake doyou look back on, or decision
that you look back on and go,wow, I'd really like to have
that one back and what'd you doabout it?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (25:51):
So, good or bad, I'm a very trusting
person, right, and the mistakewas trust without inspection.
I'm a very trusting person,right, and the mistake was trust
without inspection.
So the fix is now inspect whatyou expect and I've changed it
now because now there is there'sreporting in KPIs and show me
the work, show me the goods,show me.
And I think if I had reallytaken that to heart when I was a
little bit younger, there wouldhave been some things that
(26:13):
wouldn't have happened, whichwould have been nice.
Ed Mathews (26:16):
Absolutely Okay.
All right, fair enough.
So I'm also always interestedin, and I know you're incredibly
busy, but I also find thatleaders like you and me for that
matter tend to take ininformation and sharpen that saw
on a very regular basis, and soI'm curious about the book,
physical or otherwise.
That's on metaphoric nightstand, right, whether it's on your
(26:37):
iPhone or it's on your laptop orwhatever, but I'm curious about
that book on your nightstandand who you're paying attention
to these days.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (26:44):
I love it.
So at the moment I am in alittle bit more of a reflective
phase.
So I am actually reading a bookand it's literally sitting on
my counter the Daily StoicJournal by a guy named Ryan
Holiday.
It comes in a two-pack rightOne is a journal and the other
one is telling you about thetheory, why the Stoics did what
they did and where it came from.
(27:06):
And it's interesting to do alittle bit more of the
introspection, because generallyI'm looking at everything
outside, looking at otherpeople's issues and questions
and details, and so it's beenfascinating.
I'm about 30 days in and I'mgoing ooh, I didn't realize.
That's why I thought what Ithought.
Ed Mathews (27:21):
So it's interesting because I feel like it teaches
you Fascinated by stoicism, andit's something that I've learned
very late in my midlife becauseI tend to be a emotional, fiery
kind of strong personality.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (27:33):
So stoicism is.
Ed Mathews (27:34):
I'm Irish.
So there you go.
Yeah, so I'm Irish.
So, yeah, the last thing thatI'm very curious about, and you
mentioned growing from you andan administrative assistant to
one hundred and twenty threeplus people in your firm.
Congratulations, by the way.
I'm curious, get it.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (27:50):
For me it's the ability to do that
instead of having to dosomething else.
So I get to rather than I haveto A hundred percent and little
things, like I've got three dogsand if it's eleven, twenty
three in the morning and Idecide I want to pet tummies,
then that's what I do.
(28:11):
You know, so freedom and I thinkthat's to me that's the
ultimate entrepreneurial goal isI will work my fingers to the
bone, but when I decide thatit's lunchtime and I want a pet
puppy tummy, then that's whatI'm doing, and I'll tell you.
Ed Mathews (28:25):
I don't know if you know this, but dogs are way
better than human beings.
So we have three dogs too.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (28:31):
Live on camera.
Ed Mathews (28:34):
So we have two Goldens a Snowball and a regular
Golden, who are awesome.
The Snowball is dumb as pastebut she's a sweetheart.
And then we have a littleChi-Chi.
I just put her on my TikTokbecause she had her nails
clipped and she was very brave.
So we celebrated that at theMatthews house and actually she
wasn't brave.
She was brave, according to mydaughter.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (28:54):
Much more important.
Ed Mathews (28:55):
Yeah, I'm a big dog, percy 100% agreed On this end.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (29:00):
Let's see, I've got my biggest girl.
She's about 135 pounds, she's aConnie Corso Great Dane mix, my
big tank.
I've got a male German Shepherdat about 85 pounds and then I
call him my mixed berry.
He's 55 pounds but he's gothusky and terrier and sharpay
and I think his DNA test cameback and literally said super
(29:23):
mutt, everything, all the things.
But, I have a little like farmon my property and I have no
steaks, no rats, no, nothing.
He can have full run of theproperty, which is there you go,
problem solved, sean.
Ed Mathews (29:35):
I've really enjoyed this conversation.
When you are not savingentrepreneurs from the tax man,
what do you like to do?
How do you spend your time?
Shauna The Tax Goddess (29:43):
Oh, probably out in the garden.
So just imagine a little farm.
We raise quail, in the winterwe raise rabbits, and I've got
88 fruit trees on the property.
So I mess around in the garden.
Ed Mathews (29:54):
Awesome, and if people want to learn more about
you or your firm or all thethings that you're doing, what's
the best way to do that?
Shauna The Tax Godde (30:01):
TaxGoddess .
com Super easy to find.
Ed Mathews (30:04):
All right, shauna, the Tax Goddess, thank you so
much for your time.
It was truly a pleasure.
I wish you continued goodfortune and hopefully we'll get
to talk again soon.
Shauna The Tax Goddess (30:13):
Sounds like a plan.
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