July 29, 2025 • 30 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ed Mathews (01:00):
Greetings and salutations, Real Estate
Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews with RealEstate Underground.
Thank you for making us a partof your day.
If you are getting value out ofour podcasts, I would love to
hear from you, but also to makesure that you follow us.
With me today is John Azar.
He's with Peak15 Capital.
We discovered John.
(01:21):
He was actually at a conferencethat we were going to attend
and unfortunately couldn't.
Fortunately, he was kind enoughto join us here on the show, so
I can pick his brain directlyinstead.
John, welcome to the show andthanks for joining us.
John Azar (01:34):
Thanks, Ed.
Appreciate it
Ed Mathews (01:35):
J ohn.
You've had a really interestingcareer.
I'm going to let you tell yourstory.
Why don't you introduce yourselfto the folks that don't know
about you and then we'll getinto it?
John Azar (01:45):
John Azar, I'm founder and CEO of P15 Capital.
We're a private equity shopbased in Charlotte, North
Carolina.
We have an office in LA.
We have national coverage.
We work with sponsors,operators, developers, to
provide them liquidity solutionfor their deals.
We run a fund that investsdirectly with sponsors and
developers and operators.
On the GP side, we bringalongside one of our
(02:07):
institutional programmaticpartners.
We have a stable of about 15 or20 really tight institutional
partners that we bring alongsideof us on our deals.
We help fund their entirecapital stack.
We fund the equity stack, mostof the GP equity and the LP
equity.
As far as background isconcerned, I've been in
commercial real estate since2005.
P15 Capital is my third.
(02:27):
Launched it in the middle ofthe pandemic in 2020 after
starting to sunset previousportfolio that my brother and I
ran here in the Southeastconcentrating on multifamily,
mostly value-add.
We transacted a few thousandunits between 2013 and 2020
pretty actively.
We still have a joint portfoliotogether Started sunsetting
that portion in 2020 andlaunched P15 in 2020.
Ed Mathews (02:50):
Let me ask you what did you see in the marketplace
that was changing in the 1920range that made you think that
it was time to move on?
John Azar (02:58):
It's both.
I have to say.
It's a combination of luck,foresight and a little bit of
strategic planning.
If we had the crystal ball, weactually probably would have
held on for another couple ofyears with some of the assets,
but still we were transacting ata really great time and 2020
seemed to be at the right,opportune time.
After the pandemic started, wehad different visions on what we
wanted to continue to do.
My brother's older than I am.
He wanted to take some chipsoff the table.
(03:20):
The opposite of me.
I wanted to not ease up, so welaunched BigTripGina at that
time.
It was a combination of timingand opportunity and strategic
thinking.
Ed Mathews (03:27):
It's interesting when you start to make those
transitions.
Sometimes it is a little bit ofluck Me.
I would have taken credit forbeing prescient, but I
appreciate your integrity.
John Azar (03:35):
Yeah, I wish I can take the credit for being a
Nostradamus on this, but I'm not.
Obviously, we study the marketon a regular basis and we try to
do some guesswork.
We try strategically pickingout our choices, predictions and
analysis, but we're allsometimes stabbing in the dark
at some point or another.
Of course, they're managedrisks.
If you prepare right, even yourstabs in the dark could still
(03:56):
be okay and not as bad.
Ed Mathews (03:59):
Let's talk about what you're seeing in the
marketplace these days.
I think you alluded to the factthat obviously, multifamily has
been a big part of yourportfolio.
Did I hear right or did I infercorrectly that?
you're also looking at otherasset classes these days.
John Azar (04:13):
Yeah, our fund here at Peak15, we are asset type
agnostic large extent.
There's a couple of type ofassets that we are going to add
in our next fund that ourcurrent fund does not have.
We don't currently coverstudent housing, senior living,
storage, commercial office.
That we will likely cover inour next fund that's launching
in Q2 of next year, this currentfund that we have multifamily
(04:34):
value add.
We have ground up development.
We have BTR BTS built to sellcommunities.
We even have a portfolio of carwashes in our portfolio right
now.
We have a variety of assets andwe are looking at an industrial
flex industrial fund.
Next fund we'll have as a typeto perspective.
Ed Mathews (04:51):
Are you primarily working with operators known
operators that you've builtrelationships with over the
years in the various assetgroups and letting them do what
they do, or can you walk methrough your business model?
John Azar (05:01):
It is a broad approach, but there is a method
to the madness.
There always is.
The method to the madness isyes, we work with identifiable,
trusted operators sponsors,developers that we've known for
years, and if we don't know them, we do very heavy due diligence
on them before we invest withthem.
The method to the madness isthat we are an alpha driven fund
for our investors.
That means you have a fiduciaryduty to deliver results and
(05:24):
profits to your investors, andthose results and profits may
not always come from middle ofthe fairway multifamily assets.
There are a lot of funds outthere that stick to their
investing parameters ofmultifamily and even very
specifically in different kindsof specific type of multifamily.
We don't believe that is goingto be the best utilization of
our funds.
(05:44):
In order for us to get not justthe biggest profits but also
cashflow for our investors,there's a balance of cashflow
profits that you always have to.
As a fund manager, you have tobe aware of.
Some of the projects that you'regoing to buy are going to be
great for cashflow.
Other projects you're going toinvest in are going to be great
for future profits.
Our development deals thatwe're investing in with
developers are going to be greatfor future profits.
Our development deals thatwe're investing in with
(06:04):
developers are going to be greatprofit generators for the
future.
They're not going to be so muchfor cash flow.
Value-add assets that arewell-managed, hopefully
profitable, are going togenerate some cash flow.
Same story with our car washes.
Our car washes generateprobably the highest amount of
cash flow, more than I can everduplicate from any multi-family
holding we have.
(06:25):
There's a method to demand this, as we are alpha driven, it
means you have to go afterresults and in order for you to
deliver those results you got tobe comfortable with in your
portfolio.
As long as you are prepared andhave the capacity in-house to
be able to effectively analyze,underwrite those deals and
understand the mechanics,understand the entry, understand
(06:45):
the exit, understand theassumptions really well, you
would be doing your investors inthis favor if you don't have
the kind of diversification ifyou're calling yourself an alpha
fund, which is what we are,that's the short of it.
Ed Mathews (06:57):
It's been a very dynamic few years in this
industry, and taking what themarket gives is actually prudent
.
It's interesting that the mixthat you have fully expected
laundromats to be in there aswell.
John Azar (07:08):
So the only requirement is that we have to
have a real asset behindeverything we buy, and the car
washes that we invest in arewith land, so they are not just
the operating company, butthey're also the land value
itself.
That's going to be an importantaspect to us.
Ed Mathews (07:22):
Yeah, it's the only way that we own them is if we
own the building too, so they'reusually standalones as opposed
to strip mall plays.
But yeah, it's an interestingbalance, right, because you have
development projects thataren't going to deliver cashflow
for years, and then, if you'rean alpha driven fund, your
investors are expecting amonthly or quarterly dividend in
(07:44):
some cases, I assume, and thebalance of cash flowing assets
versus long-term plays has gotto be very challenging,
Especially in a market.
John Azar (07:52):
So that's what they're expecting.
The cash flow is there, butit's not the main concentration.
The main concentration is theprofit, Because in this business
you make your money onliquidity events.
That's where we make our realmoney.
You make cash flow.
6% to 10% is not going to makeanybody rich, but that's not
generational wealth money.
Your generational wealth moneycomes from the liquidity events
(08:14):
that you're going to have, evenon stabilized assets.
Ed Mathews (08:16):
He sent me a deal it was probably a couple three
months ago and I went through itand I'm an Irishman, right.
So the way my brain's wired isI see mushroom clouds on the
(08:39):
horizon first and then I figureout how do we manage that.
The deeper I got into it, themore people I talked about I got
really excited about it becauseit's a very interesting space.
It's a rapidly growing spaceand it seems like institutional
buyers are really interested inthis kind of space.
Now what are the marketdynamics that are pushing growth
in that particular space?
John Azar (08:59):
The flex industrial in particular is really
interesting to us.
That's why it's appealing toinstitutional investors as well
On a large scale, because theywant the big box industrial, not
necessarily the flex smallindustrial.
The flex small industrial isreally interesting to us because
it operates almost the same waya multifamily asset.
You're diversified in your riskwhen you look at a flex
industrial.
(09:19):
You have a building that has,let's call it, 50,000 square
feet or maybe 100,000 squarefeet, but you have 10, 15, 20
tenants, 30 tenants in thebuilding that you have to
contend with.
So if you lose one or two, itmight take you a couple of
months to replace them, but it'sone or two.
You're not losing your entirecashflow.
If you have a gigantic, one ofthose big box industrial which
(09:40):
are becoming less and lessappealing to us because of the
onslaught of a lot of the bigcorporations like the Amazons
and all that, that's great forthem, but they hold the power.
Because they hold the power,they can come in and tell you
I'm going to pay this and that'swhat you're going to take and
that's it.
And then if you lose one ofthose tenants God forbid, you're
screwed.
You've got to replace onetenant to take over 200,000
(10:01):
square feet of space and not awhole lot of.
There's a very finite amount ofclients that are going to be
taking that top of the spacefrom you.
That's why the flex industrialhave become a real attraction to
us and has become very popularamong a lot of our investment
circles.
For that exact approachDiversification of tenancies,
(10:21):
easier to manage and underwritebecause you underwrite it again
the same way you wouldunderwrite, similar to how you'd
underwrite multifamily I knowIf you're used to underwriting
multifamily or self-storagesimilar to that to some extent
and the profits are it dependson.
You've got to be aware of wherewhat the market is.
It's a market driven, obviouslyneighborhood driven, especially
if it's newer, the newerproduct in flex industrial and
(10:43):
attractive right.
Who are you able to fit inthose and what retrofits are you
going to be able to offer yourtenants?
You have to take all of thosein consideration when you're
looking at flex industrial.
Ed Mathews (10:53):
Yeah, one of the things that we've been looking
at is the contractors.
The two spaces that we'reactually looking at right now
are either perspectively orinhabited predominantly by
plumbers, electricians, generalcontractors and entities that
need to store their materials.
They try and buy in bulk, atleast the stuff that they
(11:13):
usually use regularly.
A lot of these spaces thatwe're looking at have office
space up front, like four, five,600 square feet of office space
to operate from as well, soit's an interesting play.
I think it's got the positivesof multifamily in terms of
demand, in terms of rent growth,in terms of opportunity.
You can diversify.
Dealing with commercial tenantsis usually easier than dealing
(11:37):
with residents.
John Azar (11:38):
Yeah, especially if you're doing triple net leases,
very easy maintenance from amanagement standpoint.
Ed Mathews (11:43):
Keep the water running, keep the lights on,
keep everything connected.
Yeah, and in terms of your viewon car washes, obviously a huge
cashflow play, but anappreciation play as well.
John Azar (11:53):
Yes, there is an appreciation play.
Of course it may not be asmeaty multifamily or like a
ground of development, but theappreciation play is there.
It is a little bit moreconservative because you buy
flex industrial space.
Are you going to sell it fordouble what you bought it for?
Probably not, but it depends onthe area.
Anything's possible.
In general, you're notunderwriting to those standards.
(12:14):
You're not underwriting thatyou're going to make 100% or
you're going to sell it for 50%.
But there is an appreciationplay, especially if the area is
up and coming.
That's why it's reallyimportant for you to do a
geographic deep dive in what'saround.
Who's coming?
The same with anything in realestate Path of progress.
That's exactly right.
You have to understand who iscoming here.
(12:34):
What are they doing?
What is the area going to looklike as opposed to what it looks
like now?
Who is it going to be appealingfor in five years?
That's the golden rule withanything you buy that's not just
industrial.
The same thing with multifamily.
You always have to think of yourexit.
I always tell people you got tothink of who is going to buy
this from you.
What is the profile of thebuyer in three years or four
(12:56):
years or five years.
If you can narrow down theprofile of that buyer in three
to four years, five years you'regoing to do a better job in
underwriting the deal now,because you're just really
reverse engineering the process.
If you're saying to yourself infive years, I want some big box
or a big corporation or a hedgefund to come and buy my asset,
(13:18):
okay, what are they going to belooking for in five years in
this area and can you deliverthat, you think, in the next
three to four to five years,while you're holding this asset?
Ed Mathews (13:28):
Stephen Covey was right Start with the end in mind
.
The fact it's really hard torun a business operation when
your plan is you're going tomiss.
There's no way you can hit atarget you haven't defined.
John Azar (13:37):
You're absolutely right If you have a target, you
can't just hope is not a methodand it's not just a book for me,
it's a lifestyle for me, how weconduct our business.
It's a company motto for us andit's something I drill in the
head of everybody that works forus.
Don't tell me something about abusiness plan or numbers or
underwriting.
Don't ever start that sentencewith I hope.
(13:57):
Tell me why you have thesenumbers, what are the
definitions of why you'redelivering these projections,
and let's plan accordingly.
Let's put the right pieces ofthe puzzle in place.
You're not relying on hope,because that's not a strategy.
Ed Mathews (14:11):
One of the things that we were talking about
offline is your focus on helpingother investors get into your
space.
I understand you.
This amazing course that we'relaunching in September.
John Azar (14:38):
And we're doing the launch via a three-day bootcamp
that we're also going toannounce on social media soon,
in the next couple of weeks, andthe course is going to be at
your pace course.
Go online and access it.
And it's a multifamily course,from soup to nuts, essentially
talking about fromidentification, market research
to acquisitions, to capitalizingyour deal, to talk about
capital raising, to talk aboutpreparing for an institutional
(15:01):
buy, to exit, to hopefully getthe project to.
So it's a full cycle course onmultifamily.
Totally a pretty product.
Ed Mathews (15:09):
In terms of the ideal student.
Where are they in their career?
John Azar (15:12):
They could be someone who is getting into the
business.
They want to get intomultifamily, or maybe they're
doing something else in realestate and they want to get into
multifamily, or they arealready in multifamily and they
just want to improve theirskills, maybe think of their
company or approach to businessin a slightly different way,
because we have a differentapproach to the business.
Our approach is more build amachine that could eventually
(15:34):
become institutionally driven,because that's been always our
approach.
We are preparing owneroperators who are in the
business to become betteroperators and better owners,
sponsors that could get them tothe institutional level, or
prepare people who have neverbeen in the business and help
them understand the business andget into the business.
The other audience could beinvestors or potential investors
(15:55):
that are looking into thebusiness but they don't really
want to get into the business,but they want to understand it
as an investor before theyinvest with an owner, operator
or sponsor.
It's a diversified set ofaudience and we're probably
going to give out somescholarships to young folks if
they have an interest in thebusiness.
I love seeing youngergeneration getting in and that's
hopefully going to be part ofus giving back.
Awesome Love seeing youngergeneration getting in, and
that's hopefully going to bepart of us giving back.
Ed Mathews (16:16):
Awesome, let's get into the final five and then we
can land this plane.
You've been very successfulover the years.
Multiple companiescongratulations again.
I assume that the mortgages aretaken care of and the college
educations are taken care of,and car payments and all the
things, and yet you still get upin the morning on Monday and go
to work with hair on fire, soto speak.
What's that drive?
What's your purpose?
John Azar (16:35):
Building businesses is an interesting experience.
It's almost like raising kids.
Your work is never done, butyou have to build your business
to the stage where you feelproud of the product.
For me, that is continuing work.
I think the time I stoppedworking on something and stopped
pursuing growing a companyeither this company or the next
company probably when I'm like90 years old, then I probably
(16:58):
can't even see straight there'sno reason why I can't continue
to work that way.
For me, as cheesy as thatsounds, I build my business,
especially Peak15.
We're building Peak15 for thenext generation, the young
partners I have now in thebusiness who are hopefully going
to be leading the business andtaking over my role in a few
years, and then hopefully theirfamilies, and hopefully we can
create a product or a companythat we can all be proud of,
(17:20):
that can be passed along, and inorder to do that requires work.
I can't just be content withwhat you just described.
The car is paid for, the houseis paid for Contentment is very
elusive.
Ed Mathews (17:29):
A buddy of mine once asked me when are you going to
retire?
I was like what do you mean?
Never, I've never retired.
John Azar (17:34):
Me spending eight hours a day on a golf course.
That sounds terrible for me.
Ed Mathews (17:38):
Yeah, when I left the Silicon Valley took a few
months off.
Two weeks in, I'm following mywife around the grocery store
and she's like you need to gofind something else to do.
I'm like, okay, done,accelerated our plans and off we
went.
I can't ever imagine turning itoff, even if I'm 90, as long as
I know my own name and I canstill do math in my head
accurately, I don't see mestopping, unless I get to the
(17:58):
stage where my grandkids arefeeding me dog food, then that's
probably where I've heard.
So you've mentioned mentoringand how you really get a lot out
of that.
I think it warms your soul, andso I'm curious about the
mentors you've had in your life.
John Azar (18:18):
What's the best advice you ever got and who gave
it to you?
Gosh, one of my really earlymentors told me.
When I broke my teeth inindustry and financial
investment, I brokered shop likeMorgan Stanley and Royal Bank
of Canada.
I was an equity trader thereand then from there, broke up
into establishing my first firmin Boston.
We did structured finance,investment banking.
One of my earliest mentors fromthat era told me don't worry
about what the market is doing.
The market is going to dowhatever it's going to do.
As long as you're in the marketand you're putting your best
foot forward every single day,you're never going to have to
(18:41):
worry about what the market isdoing because you're in it.
You're always in it and you'reall going to find you're either
exits or entry into deals, justbecause you are in the market
and you have the pulse on aday-to-day basis and people are
going to see that and they'regoing to respect that and you're
eventually going to be totallyfine.
The first piece of advice thatI always tell people don't worry
(19:02):
what the market is doing.
The market is going to dowhatever it's going to do.
It's going to go up, it's goingto go down.
There's going to be pressures.
There's going to be some thingscoming into favor, there's
going to be some things out offavor.
But just be in a market andfocus on what you do best.
Stick to your ethos that youknow in your heart that you can
work on, and the deals will showthemselves.
You just have to be ready whenthey do show themselves.
(19:23):
But you can't be ready when yousay I'm going to take a step
off and take a year off themarket.
Then you're going to miss out.
That's the first piece of advicethat an early mentor told me.
My second piece of advice thatanother mentor, which is my
brother actually my olderbrother.
We ran together the previouscompany, tipic15, because prior
(19:44):
to me joining him on doing MacVenture Partners, probably
someone I looked up for from anentrepreneurial standpoint
because he was the firstentrepreneur I ever, my dad was
the first entrepreneur and thenmy brother.
He just always finds ways tosomehow become.
He got into technology.
He had three, four differentkinds of businesses before we
got into real estate.
His early advice to me wasalways underwrite for the worst.
You'll always be okay If youalways underwrite for the worst.
(20:05):
Prepare for the worst, butexpect the best.
Always underwrite for the worstcase scenario.
When you get there, maybeunderwrite even lower than that.
This way, when you get for theworst case scenario, when you
get there, maybe underwrite evenlower than that.
This way, when you get to themarket conditions where it's
completely against you, you'refine because you already
expected that you're going tohave a crap sandwich at some
point.
That's where you underwrote.
If you underwrote a crapsandwich, then once you get it
(20:26):
you're like oh, I was expectingthat when the market turns up,
you're pleasantly surprised,right?
was expecting that when themarket turns up, you're
pleasantly surprised.
Right, that's right.
It's the old adage ofunder-promised, never delivered.
That's what we try to do allthe time, and so these are the
two best pieces of advice I'vegotten from mentors.
Ed Mathews (20:40):
Both excellent.
I fundamentally believe that welearn more from our mistakes
than we do from our successes,and so I'm curious about a
decision you'd like to have backover the years that didn't go
your way, that you want to talkabout.
How'd you?
John Azar (20:54):
handle it.
What'd you do?
I wouldn't be an entrepreneurif I didn't say I had so many
bad decisions.
But I also had a lot of baddecisions and bad choices.
Unfortunately.
We learn from.
Hopefully we learn from.
That's a positive part aboutthem.
I would give an example of evena recent deal that we tried to
do a couple of years ago.
The mistake that I made in thatdeal is that I didn't listen to
my gut.
Part of our criteria now in ourfund, when we fund sponsors,
(21:17):
developers, when we invest withthem or co-invest with them, is,
above and beyond theunderwriting, above and beyond
the numbers, above and beyondthe bricks and mortars of the
property that we're getting into, there has to be a human
element that we're comfortablewith.
So obviously we underwrite thesponsors themselves.
We have to know theirexperience, their knowledge,
what kind of deals they've donein that market and all that kind
(21:38):
of stuff.
But after all of that, you'vegot to, at the end of the day,
be comfortable with the personthat you are dealing with.
That is something that ishugely important to me and will
always be important to me, andthat's something that we started
to inculcate in the companyculture.
On a day-to-day basis.
I don't sign off on any dealsunless one of the principals
(22:00):
have met in person with theother principals of the company
that we're investing with or goinvesting with.
In that instance I did not gowith my gut.
My gut actually told me in thatdeal that I just mentioned, my
gut told me not to invest withhim.
There's something off aboutthis particular gentleman and I
couldn't put my fingers on it.
I even took the phone andcalled my partner, francisco,
and I said man, I just don'tsomething about him that just
(22:22):
doesn't sit well with me andhe's like, but the deal is great
, the deal is fantastic.
I said I understand the deal isfantastic, but I just don't
like him as an individual.
And I was right.
Unfortunately, the deal didn'tmaterialize.
Thank God it didn't materialize, but we ended up losing a
little bit of deposit money on adeal because it went sideways
because of him, not just becauseof him.
The seller didn't disclosecertain things and there were
(22:45):
some value laws that we couldn'tmake up.
That was a large part of it.
That's something that is a hugelesson for me and that is
something that we call today inour culture that we have to have
a comfort with the human beingthat we're dealing with.
You're getting married, right,we are.
We're getting married for thenext three to five years and
there are no room for egos orchildish games or anything like
that, and if somebody's doingthat, then you're not going to
(23:07):
have a good time with them forthe next three to five years and
when you're dating, so to speak.
Ed Mathews (23:11):
To extend the metaphor everybody's on their
best behavior.
So if your radar is going off,then what happens if the market
changes or the deal changes insome way?
You got to know that you're incahoots with somebody that you
get along with and can work with.
John Azar (23:26):
That's right, regardless of the numbers.
We always say a good deal cango sideways really fast with a
bad partner.
But even a bad deal can besaved and become a success with
a good partner Because you cancollaborate, you can find ways,
but with a bad partner, forgetit.
Ed Mathews (23:41):
I'm curious about how you take in information.
Tell me about the book that'son your nightstand, either
virtual or otherwise, and whatauthors do you pay?
John Azar (23:50):
attention to Books on my nightstand.
I'm always told to just paredown the books that are on my
nightstand because they overflowand I have to sometimes add
them to the library and takesome books off the nightstand.
So I'm very ADD.
So, in order for me to use theADD to my advantage, I read
multiple books at the same timeinstead of just one book,
because sometimes I get bored byreading one book.
I read 20, 30 pages, 50 pages.
(24:11):
I put it down and start anotherbook and read another 20, 30
pages and go back to anotherbook.
Right now I'm actually rereadinga couple of books that I've
read in the past, but I likethem and I want to refresh my
mind about them.
I'm rereading you may haveknown it.
It's called Atomic Habits.
I'm sure you know that book.
(24:33):
It's one of my favorite booksand I'm rereading that because
we can all use some rushing upon a day-to-day harvest that we
can do to be successful on aday-to-day basis.
I'm reading a book which Imeant to read for a long time
called the Startup.
It's Reid Hoffman, who is thefounder of LinkedIn.
On my nightstand I have anotherbook I'm reading called how I'm
Doing.
I forgot the name of the author, but it's essentially 40
conversations with yourself thatyou can have, daily
conversations that you can havewith yourselves.
(24:53):
It's called how Am I Doing andit's one of those contemplative
books that more philosophical innature but really important to
have these conversations withourselves.
I try to do a meditation on aday-to-day basis.
I try to get up in the morningand write down my intentions for
the day or for the week andthat really helps me stay
focused and more zen in my day.
(25:14):
I suppose doesn't always work.
Not saying it's a perfectsystem, but it's something.
Ed Mathews (25:18):
We got to try.
At the very least you'restacking the deck in your favor.
Yeah, I've got a plan everymorning when I walk in, but it's
still Mike Tyson thing.
The right cross comes and theday goes like to plan.
(25:42):
I'm done at lunchtime.
Fantastic, now I can focus onmy team, the company, whatever
else, partners, whatever.
But occasionally I'm there atseven eight o'clock because I
had a fire to fight.
One of the other things thatI'm always interested in is how
I suspect I know the answergiven on how you answered
something else, but I'm curioushow you define success in your
life.
John Azar (26:01):
Success is taking care of the people you love
around you and making them asuccess.
If you are empowering othersthat are in your circle whether
it's not just family, it'speople that you surround
yourself with, that are part ofyour life on a daily basis or
part of your business and if youare a source of that
empowerment for them and helpthem elevate themselves and, at
(26:21):
some point in the future, helpthem get to their hopes and
dreams and leave that assomewhat of a legacy whether
they're your kids or yourpartners, maybe your mentees
that to me is always a hugesuccess.
I'm not just a benevolentorganization here, so we're not
doggedly pursuing success andprofits on a day-to-day basis.
There's a value exchange there.
(26:41):
There's a value exchange ahundred percent.
That to me is success.
Success when someone hears yourname or your company name they
say, oh, my goodness, he's agreat guy or I'd love to do
business with them.
They are fantastic.
I've never dealt with anybodythere that I didn't like.
That's success.
The trappings of a luxuriouslife stuff means nothing.
Ed Mathews (27:01):
Yeah, I've yet to meet somebody who is approaching
the latter part of their lifeand thinking I wish I had more
stuff.
John Azar (27:08):
Exactly.
I wish I had more time with mykids or my grandkids, or I wish
I spent better time with my wifeor husband, I wish I traveled
more, I wish I experienced theworld, I wish I provided better
experiences for my family, orwhatever it might be.
That's the definition ofsuccess, hopefully at a stage of
life.
I'm not in a hurry to get there, but when I get to that stage
(27:28):
of life I hope that I can havefulfillment in those answers.
Ed Mathews (27:32):
When you're not talking about real estate.
What do you enjoy doing?
John Azar (27:34):
I am an avid outdoorsman.
A law of the outdoors in allits shapes and forms, but more
importantly, the outdoors thatinvolves forests and mountains.
That's what Peak 15 has beforeit used to be called Mount
Everest.
I love anything outdoors.
Point me to a forest and amountain and I'm there.
The beaches are okay.
They don't really do it for meas much.
I spend a couple of days at thebeach and I'm bored.
(27:56):
I'm not a beach guy.
I see the value of a beach fora couple of days, but then after
that I'm done, I'm more.
Mountains, forests get me amongthe trees and I'm in my happy
place.
I try to do that on a regularbasis, as much as I can.
Ed Mathews (28:08):
Excellent, John.
If somebody wants to learn moreabout you or Peak15 or your
upcoming course, you're speakingat several events coming up in
the fall.
What's the best way to learnmore?
John Azar (28:18):
about you?
Absolutely.
We're also still acceptinginvestors in our fund.
I just wanted to throw thatplug in.
People can find me online.
They can email me directly.
Azar at peak15capcom A-Z-A-R atpeak, as in mountain peak one
five cap as in capitalcom.
Azar at peak15capcom Or go toour website at peak15cap.
com.
(28:39):
I'm also on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is probably the numberone platform I use on a
day-to-day basis.
I don't have Facebook andInstagram on my phone.
I only have LinkedIn on myphone.
The only way that I interact onsocial media is LinkedIn.
I phones.
The only way that I interact onsocial media is LinkedIn.
I'm not much of a social mediahound.
Ed Mathews (28:56):
That's what I'm marketing folks to be a producer
of social media, not a consumer.
John Azar (28:59):
You'll be.
I should be able to ask me wesent you a message on Instagram.
Why don't you get it?
I'm like cause I don't haveInstagram.
I probably saw a post from oneof my marketing guys that did a
post for me.
That doesn't mean I'm alwayswatching my Instagram.
Ed Mathews (29:10):
John, thank you so much for your time today.
It's really been a pleasure tospeak with you and I wish you
continued good fortune, but fornow, thank you very much.
John Azar (29:18):
Sounds amazing, Thank you.
Greetings and salutations, Real Estate
Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews with RealEstate Underground.
Thank you for making us a partof your day.
If you are getting value out ofour podcasts, I would love to
hear from you, but also to makesure that you follow us.
With me today is John Azar.
He's with Peak15 Capital.
We discovered John.
(01:21):
He was actually at a conferencethat we were going to attend
and unfortunately couldn't.
Fortunately, he was kind enoughto join us here on the show, so
I can pick his brain directlyinstead.
John, welcome to the show andthanks for joining us.
John Azar (01:34):
Thanks, Ed.
Appreciate it
Ed Mathews (01:35):
J ohn.
You've had a really interestingcareer.
I'm going to let you tell yourstory.
Why don't you introduce yourselfto the folks that don't know
about you and then we'll getinto it?
John Azar (01:45):
John Azar, I'm founder and CEO of P15 Capital.
We're a private equity shopbased in Charlotte, North
Carolina.
We have an office in LA.
We have national coverage.
We work with sponsors,operators, developers, to
provide them liquidity solutionfor their deals.
We run a fund that investsdirectly with sponsors and
developers and operators.
On the GP side, we bringalongside one of our
(02:07):
institutional programmaticpartners.
We have a stable of about 15 or20 really tight institutional
partners that we bring alongsideof us on our deals.
We help fund their entirecapital stack.
We fund the equity stack, mostof the GP equity and the LP
equity.
As far as background isconcerned, I've been in
commercial real estate since2005.
P15 Capital is my third.
(02:27):
Launched it in the middle ofthe pandemic in 2020 after
starting to sunset previousportfolio that my brother and I
ran here in the Southeastconcentrating on multifamily,
mostly value-add.
We transacted a few thousandunits between 2013 and 2020
pretty actively.
We still have a joint portfoliotogether Started sunsetting
that portion in 2020 andlaunched P15 in 2020.
Ed Mathews (02:50):
Let me ask you what did you see in the marketplace
that was changing in the 1920range that made you think that
it was time to move on?
John Azar (02:58):
It's both.
I have to say.
It's a combination of luck,foresight and a little bit of
strategic planning.
If we had the crystal ball, weactually probably would have
held on for another couple ofyears with some of the assets,
but still we were transacting ata really great time and 2020
seemed to be at the right,opportune time.
After the pandemic started, wehad different visions on what we
wanted to continue to do.
My brother's older than I am.
He wanted to take some chipsoff the table.
(03:20):
The opposite of me.
I wanted to not ease up, so welaunched BigTripGina at that
time.
It was a combination of timingand opportunity and strategic
thinking.
Ed Mathews (03:27):
It's interesting when you start to make those
transitions.
Sometimes it is a little bit ofluck Me.
I would have taken credit forbeing prescient, but I
appreciate your integrity.
John Azar (03:35):
Yeah, I wish I can take the credit for being a
Nostradamus on this, but I'm not.
Obviously, we study the marketon a regular basis and we try to
do some guesswork.
We try strategically pickingout our choices, predictions and
analysis, but we're allsometimes stabbing in the dark
at some point or another.
Of course, they're managedrisks.
If you prepare right, even yourstabs in the dark could still
(03:56):
be okay and not as bad.
Ed Mathews (03:59):
Let's talk about what you're seeing in the
marketplace these days.
I think you alluded to the factthat obviously, multifamily has
been a big part of yourportfolio.
Did I hear right or did I infercorrectly that?
you're also looking at otherasset classes these days.
John Azar (04:13):
Yeah, our fund here at Peak15, we are asset type
agnostic large extent.
There's a couple of type ofassets that we are going to add
in our next fund that ourcurrent fund does not have.
We don't currently coverstudent housing, senior living,
storage, commercial office.
That we will likely cover inour next fund that's launching
in Q2 of next year, this currentfund that we have multifamily
(04:34):
value add.
We have ground up development.
We have BTR BTS built to sellcommunities.
We even have a portfolio of carwashes in our portfolio right
now.
We have a variety of assets andwe are looking at an industrial
flex industrial fund.
Next fund we'll have as a typeto perspective.
Ed Mathews (04:51):
Are you primarily working with operators known
operators that you've builtrelationships with over the
years in the various assetgroups and letting them do what
they do, or can you walk methrough your business model?
John Azar (05:01):
It is a broad approach, but there is a method
to the madness.
There always is.
The method to the madness isyes, we work with identifiable,
trusted operators sponsors,developers that we've known for
years, and if we don't know them, we do very heavy due diligence
on them before we invest withthem.
The method to the madness isthat we are an alpha driven fund
for our investors.
That means you have a fiduciaryduty to deliver results and
(05:24):
profits to your investors, andthose results and profits may
not always come from middle ofthe fairway multifamily assets.
There are a lot of funds outthere that stick to their
investing parameters ofmultifamily and even very
specifically in different kindsof specific type of multifamily.
We don't believe that is goingto be the best utilization of
our funds.
(05:44):
In order for us to get not justthe biggest profits but also
cashflow for our investors,there's a balance of cashflow
profits that you always have to.
As a fund manager, you have tobe aware of.
Some of the projects that you'regoing to buy are going to be
great for cashflow.
Other projects you're going toinvest in are going to be great
for future profits.
Our development deals thatwe're investing in with
developers are going to be greatfor future profits.
Our development deals thatwe're investing in with
(06:04):
developers are going to be greatprofit generators for the
future.
They're not going to be so muchfor cash flow.
Value-add assets that arewell-managed, hopefully
profitable, are going togenerate some cash flow.
Same story with our car washes.
Our car washes generateprobably the highest amount of
cash flow, more than I can everduplicate from any multi-family
holding we have.
(06:25):
There's a method to demand this, as we are alpha driven, it
means you have to go afterresults and in order for you to
deliver those results you got tobe comfortable with in your
portfolio.
As long as you are prepared andhave the capacity in-house to
be able to effectively analyze,underwrite those deals and
understand the mechanics,understand the entry, understand
(06:45):
the exit, understand theassumptions really well, you
would be doing your investors inthis favor if you don't have
the kind of diversification ifyou're calling yourself an alpha
fund, which is what we are,that's the short of it.
Ed Mathews (06:57):
It's been a very dynamic few years in this
industry, and taking what themarket gives is actually prudent
.
It's interesting that the mixthat you have fully expected
laundromats to be in there aswell.
John Azar (07:08):
So the only requirement is that we have to
have a real asset behindeverything we buy, and the car
washes that we invest in arewith land, so they are not just
the operating company, butthey're also the land value
itself.
That's going to be an importantaspect to us.
Ed Mathews (07:22):
Yeah, it's the only way that we own them is if we
own the building too, so they'reusually standalones as opposed
to strip mall plays.
But yeah, it's an interestingbalance, right, because you have
development projects thataren't going to deliver cashflow
for years, and then, if you'rean alpha driven fund, your
investors are expecting amonthly or quarterly dividend in
(07:44):
some cases, I assume, and thebalance of cash flowing assets
versus long-term plays has gotto be very challenging,
Especially in a market.
John Azar (07:52):
So that's what they're expecting.
The cash flow is there, butit's not the main concentration.
The main concentration is theprofit, Because in this business
you make your money onliquidity events.
That's where we make our realmoney.
You make cash flow.
6% to 10% is not going to makeanybody rich, but that's not
generational wealth money.
Your generational wealth moneycomes from the liquidity events
(08:14):
that you're going to have, evenon stabilized assets.
Ed Mathews (08:16):
He sent me a deal it was probably a couple three
months ago and I went through itand I'm an Irishman, right.
So the way my brain's wired isI see mushroom clouds on the
(08:39):
horizon first and then I figureout how do we manage that.
The deeper I got into it, themore people I talked about I got
really excited about it becauseit's a very interesting space.
It's a rapidly growing spaceand it seems like institutional
buyers are really interested inthis kind of space.
Now what are the marketdynamics that are pushing growth
in that particular space?
John Azar (08:59):
The flex industrial in particular is really
interesting to us.
That's why it's appealing toinstitutional investors as well
On a large scale, because theywant the big box industrial, not
necessarily the flex smallindustrial.
The flex small industrial isreally interesting to us because
it operates almost the same waya multifamily asset.
You're diversified in your riskwhen you look at a flex
industrial.
(09:19):
You have a building that has,let's call it, 50,000 square
feet or maybe 100,000 squarefeet, but you have 10, 15, 20
tenants, 30 tenants in thebuilding that you have to
contend with.
So if you lose one or two, itmight take you a couple of
months to replace them, but it'sone or two.
You're not losing your entirecashflow.
If you have a gigantic, one ofthose big box industrial which
(09:40):
are becoming less and lessappealing to us because of the
onslaught of a lot of the bigcorporations like the Amazons
and all that, that's great forthem, but they hold the power.
Because they hold the power,they can come in and tell you
I'm going to pay this and that'swhat you're going to take and
that's it.
And then if you lose one ofthose tenants God forbid, you're
screwed.
You've got to replace onetenant to take over 200,000
(10:01):
square feet of space and not awhole lot of.
There's a very finite amount ofclients that are going to be
taking that top of the spacefrom you.
That's why the flex industrialhave become a real attraction to
us and has become very popularamong a lot of our investment
circles.
For that exact approachDiversification of tenancies,
(10:21):
easier to manage and underwritebecause you underwrite it again
the same way you wouldunderwrite, similar to how you'd
underwrite multifamily I knowIf you're used to underwriting
multifamily or self-storagesimilar to that to some extent
and the profits are it dependson.
You've got to be aware of wherewhat the market is.
It's a market driven, obviouslyneighborhood driven, especially
if it's newer, the newerproduct in flex industrial and
(10:43):
attractive right.
Who are you able to fit inthose and what retrofits are you
going to be able to offer yourtenants?
You have to take all of thosein consideration when you're
looking at flex industrial.
Ed Mathews (10:53):
Yeah, one of the things that we've been looking
at is the contractors.
The two spaces that we'reactually looking at right now
are either perspectively orinhabited predominantly by
plumbers, electricians, generalcontractors and entities that
need to store their materials.
They try and buy in bulk, atleast the stuff that they
(11:13):
usually use regularly.
A lot of these spaces thatwe're looking at have office
space up front, like four, five,600 square feet of office space
to operate from as well, soit's an interesting play.
I think it's got the positivesof multifamily in terms of
demand, in terms of rent growth,in terms of opportunity.
You can diversify.
Dealing with commercial tenantsis usually easier than dealing
(11:37):
with residents.
John Azar (11:38):
Yeah, especially if you're doing triple net leases,
very easy maintenance from amanagement standpoint.
Ed Mathews (11:43):
Keep the water running, keep the lights on,
keep everything connected.
Yeah, and in terms of your viewon car washes, obviously a huge
cashflow play, but anappreciation play as well.
John Azar (11:53):
Yes, there is an appreciation play.
Of course it may not be asmeaty multifamily or like a
ground of development, but theappreciation play is there.
It is a little bit moreconservative because you buy
flex industrial space.
Are you going to sell it fordouble what you bought it for?
Probably not, but it depends onthe area.
Anything's possible.
In general, you're notunderwriting to those standards.
(12:14):
You're not underwriting thatyou're going to make 100% or
you're going to sell it for 50%.
But there is an appreciationplay, especially if the area is
up and coming.
That's why it's reallyimportant for you to do a
geographic deep dive in what'saround.
Who's coming?
The same with anything in realestate Path of progress.
That's exactly right.
You have to understand who iscoming here.
(12:34):
What are they doing?
What is the area going to looklike as opposed to what it looks
like now?
Who is it going to be appealingfor in five years?
That's the golden rule withanything you buy that's not just
industrial.
The same thing with multifamily.
You always have to think of yourexit.
I always tell people you got tothink of who is going to buy
this from you.
What is the profile of thebuyer in three years or four
(12:56):
years or five years.
If you can narrow down theprofile of that buyer in three
to four years, five years you'regoing to do a better job in
underwriting the deal now,because you're just really
reverse engineering the process.
If you're saying to yourself infive years, I want some big box
or a big corporation or a hedgefund to come and buy my asset,
(13:18):
okay, what are they going to belooking for in five years in
this area and can you deliverthat, you think, in the next
three to four to five years,while you're holding this asset?
Ed Mathews (13:28):
Stephen Covey was right Start with the end in mind
.
The fact it's really hard torun a business operation when
your plan is you're going tomiss.
There's no way you can hit atarget you haven't defined.
John Azar (13:37):
You're absolutely right If you have a target, you
can't just hope is not a methodand it's not just a book for me,
it's a lifestyle for me, how weconduct our business.
It's a company motto for us andit's something I drill in the
head of everybody that works forus.
Don't tell me something about abusiness plan or numbers or
underwriting.
Don't ever start that sentencewith I hope.
(13:57):
Tell me why you have thesenumbers, what are the
definitions of why you'redelivering these projections,
and let's plan accordingly.
Let's put the right pieces ofthe puzzle in place.
You're not relying on hope,because that's not a strategy.
Ed Mathews (14:11):
One of the things that we were talking about
offline is your focus on helpingother investors get into your
space.
I understand you.
This amazing course that we'relaunching in September.
John Azar (14:38):
And we're doing the launch via a three-day bootcamp
that we're also going toannounce on social media soon,
in the next couple of weeks, andthe course is going to be at
your pace course.
Go online and access it.
And it's a multifamily course,from soup to nuts, essentially
talking about fromidentification, market research
to acquisitions, to capitalizingyour deal, to talk about
capital raising, to talk aboutpreparing for an institutional
(15:01):
buy, to exit, to hopefully getthe project to.
So it's a full cycle course onmultifamily.
Totally a pretty product.
Ed Mathews (15:09):
In terms of the ideal student.
Where are they in their career?
John Azar (15:12):
They could be someone who is getting into the
business.
They want to get intomultifamily, or maybe they're
doing something else in realestate and they want to get into
multifamily, or they arealready in multifamily and they
just want to improve theirskills, maybe think of their
company or approach to businessin a slightly different way,
because we have a differentapproach to the business.
Our approach is more build amachine that could eventually
(15:34):
become institutionally driven,because that's been always our
approach.
We are preparing owneroperators who are in the
business to become betteroperators and better owners,
sponsors that could get them tothe institutional level, or
prepare people who have neverbeen in the business and help
them understand the business andget into the business.
The other audience could beinvestors or potential investors
(15:55):
that are looking into thebusiness but they don't really
want to get into the business,but they want to understand it
as an investor before theyinvest with an owner, operator
or sponsor.
It's a diversified set ofaudience and we're probably
going to give out somescholarships to young folks if
they have an interest in thebusiness.
I love seeing youngergeneration getting in and that's
hopefully going to be part ofus giving back.
Awesome Love seeing youngergeneration getting in, and
that's hopefully going to bepart of us giving back.
Ed Mathews (16:16):
Awesome, let's get into the final five and then we
can land this plane.
You've been very successfulover the years.
Multiple companiescongratulations again.
I assume that the mortgages aretaken care of and the college
educations are taken care of,and car payments and all the
things, and yet you still get upin the morning on Monday and go
to work with hair on fire, soto speak.
What's that drive?
What's your purpose?
John Azar (16:35):
Building businesses is an interesting experience.
It's almost like raising kids.
Your work is never done, butyou have to build your business
to the stage where you feelproud of the product.
For me, that is continuing work.
I think the time I stoppedworking on something and stopped
pursuing growing a companyeither this company or the next
company probably when I'm like90 years old, then I probably
(16:58):
can't even see straight there'sno reason why I can't continue
to work that way.
For me, as cheesy as thatsounds, I build my business,
especially Peak15.
We're building Peak15 for thenext generation, the young
partners I have now in thebusiness who are hopefully going
to be leading the business andtaking over my role in a few
years, and then hopefully theirfamilies, and hopefully we can
create a product or a companythat we can all be proud of,
(17:20):
that can be passed along, and inorder to do that requires work.
I can't just be content withwhat you just described.
The car is paid for, the houseis paid for Contentment is very
elusive.
Ed Mathews (17:29):
A buddy of mine once asked me when are you going to
retire?
I was like what do you mean?
Never, I've never retired.
John Azar (17:34):
Me spending eight hours a day on a golf course.
That sounds terrible for me.
Ed Mathews (17:38):
Yeah, when I left the Silicon Valley took a few
months off.
Two weeks in, I'm following mywife around the grocery store
and she's like you need to gofind something else to do.
I'm like, okay, done,accelerated our plans and off we
went.
I can't ever imagine turning itoff, even if I'm 90, as long as
I know my own name and I canstill do math in my head
accurately, I don't see mestopping, unless I get to the
(17:58):
stage where my grandkids arefeeding me dog food, then that's
probably where I've heard.
So you've mentioned mentoringand how you really get a lot out
of that.
I think it warms your soul, andso I'm curious about the
mentors you've had in your life.
John Azar (18:18):
What's the best advice you ever got and who gave
it to you?
Gosh, one of my really earlymentors told me.
When I broke my teeth inindustry and financial
investment, I brokered shop likeMorgan Stanley and Royal Bank
of Canada.
I was an equity trader thereand then from there, broke up
into establishing my first firmin Boston.
We did structured finance,investment banking.
One of my earliest mentors fromthat era told me don't worry
about what the market is doing.
The market is going to dowhatever it's going to do.
As long as you're in the marketand you're putting your best
foot forward every single day,you're never going to have to
(18:41):
worry about what the market isdoing because you're in it.
You're always in it and you'reall going to find you're either
exits or entry into deals, justbecause you are in the market
and you have the pulse on aday-to-day basis and people are
going to see that and they'regoing to respect that and you're
eventually going to be totallyfine.
The first piece of advice thatI always tell people don't worry
(19:02):
what the market is doing.
The market is going to dowhatever it's going to do.
It's going to go up, it's goingto go down.
There's going to be pressures.
There's going to be some thingscoming into favor, there's
going to be some things out offavor.
But just be in a market andfocus on what you do best.
Stick to your ethos that youknow in your heart that you can
work on, and the deals will showthemselves.
You just have to be ready whenthey do show themselves.
(19:23):
But you can't be ready when yousay I'm going to take a step
off and take a year off themarket.
Then you're going to miss out.
That's the first piece of advicethat an early mentor told me.
My second piece of advice thatanother mentor, which is my
brother actually my olderbrother.
We ran together the previouscompany, tipic15, because prior
(19:44):
to me joining him on doing MacVenture Partners, probably
someone I looked up for from anentrepreneurial standpoint
because he was the firstentrepreneur I ever, my dad was
the first entrepreneur and thenmy brother.
He just always finds ways tosomehow become.
He got into technology.
He had three, four differentkinds of businesses before we
got into real estate.
His early advice to me wasalways underwrite for the worst.
You'll always be okay If youalways underwrite for the worst.
(20:05):
Prepare for the worst, butexpect the best.
Always underwrite for the worstcase scenario.
When you get there, maybeunderwrite even lower than that.
This way, when you get for theworst case scenario, when you
get there, maybe underwrite evenlower than that.
This way, when you get to themarket conditions where it's
completely against you, you'refine because you already
expected that you're going tohave a crap sandwich at some
point.
That's where you underwrote.
If you underwrote a crapsandwich, then once you get it
(20:26):
you're like oh, I was expectingthat when the market turns up,
you're pleasantly surprised,right?
was expecting that when themarket turns up, you're
pleasantly surprised.
Right, that's right.
It's the old adage ofunder-promised, never delivered.
That's what we try to do allthe time, and so these are the
two best pieces of advice I'vegotten from mentors.
Ed Mathews (20:40):
Both excellent.
I fundamentally believe that welearn more from our mistakes
than we do from our successes,and so I'm curious about a
decision you'd like to have backover the years that didn't go
your way, that you want to talkabout.
How'd you?
John Azar (20:54):
handle it.
What'd you do?
I wouldn't be an entrepreneurif I didn't say I had so many
bad decisions.
But I also had a lot of baddecisions and bad choices.
Unfortunately.
We learn from.
Hopefully we learn from.
That's a positive part aboutthem.
I would give an example of evena recent deal that we tried to
do a couple of years ago.
The mistake that I made in thatdeal is that I didn't listen to
my gut.
Part of our criteria now in ourfund, when we fund sponsors,
(21:17):
developers, when we invest withthem or co-invest with them, is,
above and beyond theunderwriting, above and beyond
the numbers, above and beyondthe bricks and mortars of the
property that we're getting into, there has to be a human
element that we're comfortablewith.
So obviously we underwrite thesponsors themselves.
We have to know theirexperience, their knowledge,
what kind of deals they've donein that market and all that kind
(21:38):
of stuff.
But after all of that, you'vegot to, at the end of the day,
be comfortable with the personthat you are dealing with.
That is something that ishugely important to me and will
always be important to me, andthat's something that we started
to inculcate in the companyculture.
On a day-to-day basis.
I don't sign off on any dealsunless one of the principals
(22:00):
have met in person with theother principals of the company
that we're investing with or goinvesting with.
In that instance I did not gowith my gut.
My gut actually told me in thatdeal that I just mentioned, my
gut told me not to invest withhim.
There's something off aboutthis particular gentleman and I
couldn't put my fingers on it.
I even took the phone andcalled my partner, francisco,
and I said man, I just don'tsomething about him that just
(22:22):
doesn't sit well with me andhe's like, but the deal is great
, the deal is fantastic.
I said I understand the deal isfantastic, but I just don't
like him as an individual.
And I was right.
Unfortunately, the deal didn'tmaterialize.
Thank God it didn't materialize, but we ended up losing a
little bit of deposit money on adeal because it went sideways
because of him, not just becauseof him.
The seller didn't disclosecertain things and there were
(22:45):
some value laws that we couldn'tmake up.
That was a large part of it.
That's something that is a hugelesson for me and that is
something that we call today inour culture that we have to have
a comfort with the human beingthat we're dealing with.
You're getting married, right,we are.
We're getting married for thenext three to five years and
there are no room for egos orchildish games or anything like
that, and if somebody's doingthat, then you're not going to
(23:07):
have a good time with them forthe next three to five years and
when you're dating, so to speak.
Ed Mathews (23:11):
To extend the metaphor everybody's on their
best behavior.
So if your radar is going off,then what happens if the market
changes or the deal changes insome way?
You got to know that you're incahoots with somebody that you
get along with and can work with.
John Azar (23:26):
That's right, regardless of the numbers.
We always say a good deal cango sideways really fast with a
bad partner.
But even a bad deal can besaved and become a success with
a good partner Because you cancollaborate, you can find ways,
but with a bad partner, forgetit.
Ed Mathews (23:41):
I'm curious about how you take in information.
Tell me about the book that'son your nightstand, either
virtual or otherwise, and whatauthors do you pay?
John Azar (23:50):
attention to Books on my nightstand.
I'm always told to just paredown the books that are on my
nightstand because they overflowand I have to sometimes add
them to the library and takesome books off the nightstand.
So I'm very ADD.
So, in order for me to use theADD to my advantage, I read
multiple books at the same timeinstead of just one book,
because sometimes I get bored byreading one book.
I read 20, 30 pages, 50 pages.
(24:11):
I put it down and start anotherbook and read another 20, 30
pages and go back to anotherbook.
Right now I'm actually rereadinga couple of books that I've
read in the past, but I likethem and I want to refresh my
mind about them.
I'm rereading you may haveknown it.
It's called Atomic Habits.
I'm sure you know that book.
(24:33):
It's one of my favorite booksand I'm rereading that because
we can all use some rushing upon a day-to-day harvest that we
can do to be successful on aday-to-day basis.
I'm reading a book which Imeant to read for a long time
called the Startup.
It's Reid Hoffman, who is thefounder of LinkedIn.
On my nightstand I have anotherbook I'm reading called how I'm
Doing.
I forgot the name of the author, but it's essentially 40
conversations with yourself thatyou can have, daily
conversations that you can havewith yourselves.
(24:53):
It's called how Am I Doing andit's one of those contemplative
books that more philosophical innature but really important to
have these conversations withourselves.
I try to do a meditation on aday-to-day basis.
I try to get up in the morningand write down my intentions for
the day or for the week andthat really helps me stay
focused and more zen in my day.
(25:14):
I suppose doesn't always work.
Not saying it's a perfectsystem, but it's something.
Ed Mathews (25:18):
We got to try.
At the very least you'restacking the deck in your favor.
Yeah, I've got a plan everymorning when I walk in, but it's
still Mike Tyson thing.
The right cross comes and theday goes like to plan.
(25:42):
I'm done at lunchtime.
Fantastic, now I can focus onmy team, the company, whatever
else, partners, whatever.
But occasionally I'm there atseven eight o'clock because I
had a fire to fight.
One of the other things thatI'm always interested in is how
I suspect I know the answergiven on how you answered
something else, but I'm curioushow you define success in your
life.
John Azar (26:01):
Success is taking care of the people you love
around you and making them asuccess.
If you are empowering othersthat are in your circle whether
it's not just family, it'speople that you surround
yourself with, that are part ofyour life on a daily basis or
part of your business and if youare a source of that
empowerment for them and helpthem elevate themselves and, at
(26:21):
some point in the future, helpthem get to their hopes and
dreams and leave that assomewhat of a legacy whether
they're your kids or yourpartners, maybe your mentees
that to me is always a hugesuccess.
I'm not just a benevolentorganization here, so we're not
doggedly pursuing success andprofits on a day-to-day basis.
There's a value exchange there.
(26:41):
There's a value exchange ahundred percent.
That to me is success.
Success when someone hears yourname or your company name they
say, oh, my goodness, he's agreat guy or I'd love to do
business with them.
They are fantastic.
I've never dealt with anybodythere that I didn't like.
That's success.
The trappings of a luxuriouslife stuff means nothing.
Ed Mathews (27:01):
Yeah, I've yet to meet somebody who is approaching
the latter part of their lifeand thinking I wish I had more
stuff.
John Azar (27:08):
Exactly.
I wish I had more time with mykids or my grandkids, or I wish
I spent better time with my wifeor husband, I wish I traveled
more, I wish I experienced theworld, I wish I provided better
experiences for my family, orwhatever it might be.
That's the definition ofsuccess, hopefully at a stage of
life.
I'm not in a hurry to get there, but when I get to that stage
(27:28):
of life I hope that I can havefulfillment in those answers.
Ed Mathews (27:32):
When you're not talking about real estate.
What do you enjoy doing?
John Azar (27:34):
I am an avid outdoorsman.
A law of the outdoors in allits shapes and forms, but more
importantly, the outdoors thatinvolves forests and mountains.
That's what Peak 15 has beforeit used to be called Mount
Everest.
I love anything outdoors.
Point me to a forest and amountain and I'm there.
The beaches are okay.
They don't really do it for meas much.
I spend a couple of days at thebeach and I'm bored.
(27:56):
I'm not a beach guy.
I see the value of a beach fora couple of days, but then after
that I'm done, I'm more.
Mountains, forests get me amongthe trees and I'm in my happy
place.
I try to do that on a regularbasis, as much as I can.
Ed Mathews (28:08):
Excellent, John.
If somebody wants to learn moreabout you or Peak15 or your
upcoming course, you're speakingat several events coming up in
the fall.
What's the best way to learnmore?
John Azar (28:18):
about you?
Absolutely.
We're also still acceptinginvestors in our fund.
I just wanted to throw thatplug in.
People can find me online.
They can email me directly.
Azar at peak15capcom A-Z-A-R atpeak, as in mountain peak one
five cap as in capitalcom.
Azar at peak15capcom Or go toour website at peak15cap.
com.
(28:39):
I'm also on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is probably the numberone platform I use on a
day-to-day basis.
I don't have Facebook andInstagram on my phone.
I only have LinkedIn on myphone.
The only way that I interact onsocial media is LinkedIn.
I phones.
The only way that I interact onsocial media is LinkedIn.
I'm not much of a social mediahound.
Ed Mathews (28:56):
That's what I'm marketing folks to be a producer
of social media, not a consumer.
John Azar (28:59):
You'll be.
I should be able to ask me wesent you a message on Instagram.
Why don't you get it?
I'm like cause I don't haveInstagram.
I probably saw a post from oneof my marketing guys that did a
post for me.
That doesn't mean I'm alwayswatching my Instagram.
Ed Mathews (29:10):
John, thank you so much for your time today.
It's really been a pleasure tospeak with you and I wish you
continued good fortune, but fornow, thank you very much.
John Azar (29:18):
Sounds amazing, Thank you.
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