September 16, 2025 • 35 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ed Mathews (00:43):
It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground
.
Thank you so much for making usa part of your day.
I'm really excited because Idiscovered him when he was
flipping houses in Wyoming andelsewhere, and now that company
has grown into three companiesplus.
So with that, I'd love towelcome Casey Gregersen to the
show.
These days we're talking aboutthe Bighorn Capital Fund, but we
can also talk about Weill Homesand Gregersen Proper the show.
These days we're talking abouta Bighorn Capital Fund, but we
(01:05):
can also talk about Weill Homesand Gregersen Properties and
anything else you want to talkabout.
Welcome, Casey, it's good tofinally meet you.
Casey Gregersen (01:12):
You bet Ed Pleasure man Appreciate the kind
words, yeah of course, yeah, Ican't remember.
Ed Mathews (01:17):
I think I discovered you on LinkedIn.
That's usually where I findfolks to have conversations with
and pick their brains, andevery once in a while they're
kind enough to come on the showand have a conversation with me.
So thank you for that.
So, for those folks who haven'tdiscovered you, why don't you
tell us a little bit about whoyou are and what you do?
Casey Gregersen (01:32):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Just everybody right.
You got your where you camefrom, where you're at now, where
you're going, which I thinkeverybody can relate to.
I worked the W2 job for a longtime.
So I started in 2012 for Shellas a petroleum engineer.
So I grew up in Wyoming and Istill invest there today.
So something you'll probablyask later why Wyoming?
Well, it's where I grew up.
(01:53):
It's where I went to gradschool, but I had a great
opportunity to go work inHouston for Shell Shell Oil
Company as a petroleum engineer.
I went to Shell and I workedthere for 12 years, but I had a
really unique gig, which wasgood and bad.
It also led to my true purpose,but one of the best parts about
that gig is I would go out tothe field for two weeks and I'd
(02:14):
work on a drilling rig and I'dactually work nights or be the
guy in charge or I'd be like afield engineer driving around
locations, but for two weeks I'dbe on a rig.
Then for two weeks after that Iwould be off and I wouldn't
even have to open a workcomputer or cell phone.
I had zero workresponsibilities.
So that's when I started buyinghouses.
I was buying my first rental,doing my first house hack,
(02:39):
started fixing and flipping andeventually grew and scaled that
company where just three yearsago almost three years, it'll be
three years in October I leftmy W2 at Shell to go do this
full time and to leave a an oiland gas job you must be doing
very well.
Ed Mathews (02:50):
So I'm curious about that journey from being the
engineer to flipping houses andwhile you were keeping your W2,
that man.
That had to be one heck of ajuggling act.
I know you had time off, butstill you've got family and
other responsibilities as well.
What's that one soft skill orhabit that you learned in the
oil field town that that is nowlike your secret powers in a
(03:14):
real estate world?
Casey Gregersen (03:14):
Man, there's a lot of little ones right and I
always there's lots of littlejabs.
I'll take it my old W2 job andthere was like the one thing was
there was so much red tape.
It was like I was literallyliving two lives right.
I would work for Shell where itwas very slow, methodical.
So much red tape to just get asimple basic decision, have to
get it approved by all thesedifferent people, go through all
(03:37):
these processes and it woulddrive you nuts and it was really
.
It became demotivating becauseyou're just like I could do all
this work and bring all thisvalue and then if I can't get
five sign-offs, it doesn't evenmatter.
So it was frustrating for sure.
But the positive was I learneda lot about building processes
and building out SLBs and afteraction reviews right, like I
(03:58):
feel like that's a very commonthing in today's entrepreneurial
world.
But 10 years ago it wasn'tentrepreneurial world.
But 10 years ago it wasn't andwe, ever since early days with
Shell, after we finisheddrilling a well or whatever
project we did, we got togetherand did an AR and went back and
reiterated our SOP.
So that was a really good thing.
That's helped me buildprocesses and, for example, the
way I put this into play waswhen I built out my property
(04:18):
management team and operationswas.
I literally was actually duringCOVID when everybody's locked
down had nothing to do and wewere actually all post.
We actually it's crazy Shelllaid off 40% of my company that
I was in at the time.
They laid off 40% Because, ifyou remember, it's actually when
oil went negative, so it was areally rough time.
(04:39):
We were cutting 40%, so we werewaiting and we didn't know if
we had a job.
So what I did is rather thanjust sit around and I don't know
what everyone else did maybewatch Netflix I went and I was
managing my rental properties atthe time.
So I was managing probably 10to 15 units up in somewhere in
Fort Worth, somewhere up inWyoming, but I was in Houston.
I read a book that some of youguys maybe your listeners have
(05:01):
read and it's four-hour workweek.
So I read four-hour workweekand they talk about hiring
virtual assistants and that'swhen the light bulb goes off.
I'm like, wait, if I can managethese properties from Houston
and I don't even live in Wyomingor in Dallas-Fort Worth where I
have properties why can I nottrain a VA?
So that's what I did duringCOVID is I buckled down, used
(05:22):
some of those shell corporateAmerica skills, wrote out
everything on a Google doc andrecording myself doing
everything everything fromgetting a property, getting
photos, creating the marketing,creating the Zillow post, the
Facebook post to tenantscreening, everything literally
wrote it all down.
And then I hired a virtualassistant and I trained him.
I'm like all right, here's theSOPs, go follow them.
Ed Mathews (05:44):
And now they own the SOPs and they're the ones To
translate just in case you'renot in corporate America out
there, ar after action report,it's the constant loop of hey,
we did something, hey, we brokesome stuff, here's how we fix it
, here's what worked and here'swhat we're going to do going
forward, basically.
And here's what we're going todo going forward.
Basically, an SOP is thestandard operating procedure
(06:05):
that comes out of, typically, anafter action report, or at
least it's the doc that getsrefined.
So if you've seen any of ourvideos or attended a training or
anything like that, we talkabout this all the time and it's
(06:25):
really how the big players havescaled their businesses,
because they don't rely on a guynamed Casey to do everything.
They've got a team thatunderstands exactly what their
role is within the machine, andso if Casey decides that he
would love to go on vacationwith his beautiful family for a
week or two, turns out themachine continues to roll and
when he gets back, everything'sfine.
Yep, yeah, right on.
It's something that it's acommon thing that I see in all
(06:48):
of the businesses that havefigured out how to scale, and
that is how to createoperational leverage.
Right.
It's how to build that team andslowly but surely remove the
president, founder, ceo,whatever your title you want to
wear out of the day-to-day.
A friend of mine, charlie Millshe was my business coach for
years always talked about thesovereign right.
(07:11):
So you want to be the king, notthe warrior.
The king is the person whoworks on the business.
The warrior is the person whoexecutes.
And it was revolutionary for mebecause I come from a similar
business culture, but not yourbusiness.
I'm a Silicon Valley techie guy.
The interesting part about it isthe early stages of
particularly when I wentfull-time.
(07:31):
I had to really fight, doing itmyself right and really because
I came from environments wherepeople were so off the charts
smart and so competent and soaccomplished.
If we gathered three or fourpeople in a conference room,
came up with a game plan andleft, everybody knew exactly
what to do.
Here I had to take the virtualassistants and train them step
(07:56):
by step.
We're going to break it down.
I know you've done this beforeand I get that, but here's how I
want it done right.
And then the next step issomething that I think you just
alluded to, which was not onlythat, but also, now that you
understand what the standardoperating procedure is, you now
own it Right.
So you're the one who's goingto execute this.
My way doesn't have to be theway.
(08:17):
I don't care about being right,I care about getting it right,
and so if you come up with abetter way, then let's rewrite
the SOP and let's do it your way.
Casey Gregersen (08:27):
Exactly, that's exactly how I built it.
Same fundamentals.
Ed Mathews (08:30):
Part of this is that I'm literally writing a
presentation for a group offolks that I'm mentoring in
October, and I'm literallywriting about standard operating
procedures right now and whythey're so important.
So, in terms of the business,we started off flipping houses.
Obviously, that went extremelywell.
It sounds like you evolved thatinto a rental business and now
we're into private equity.
(08:52):
Talk me through that maturationcycle, and it seems like you
talk about going full-time threeyears ago, but that's not when
you started the business, right?
Let's talk about where youstarted and the journey to get
to where you are today?
Casey Gregersen (09:04):
Absolutely yeah .
So I'll give you in a nutshellhow I built the property
management company and, as Imentioned, that had been like
2020 COVID, right.
The other one that I built acouple of years before that was
direct to seller.
So up until about 2019, I wasfinding deals like on market.
I could go find a distressedproperty, fix it up.
I was doing just commercialloans and I could go a lot of
(09:26):
different ways today, but that'sbeen one I'll give you in 30
seconds.
But one of the best things I didearly on was I started working
in small banks and, instead ofgoing to big mortgage brokers, I
went to a small bank locally inthe town I was investing in and
I did a deal with them.
They got to know me.
So I did a lot of deals likethat where I'd buy it on the
market, fix it up, rent it outor buy it, fix it and flip it
(09:48):
Right.
But I started building that.
But then, as the market startedto heat up, I realized I was
buying from wholesalers.
Actually, this is how itstarted.
So I'm buying from wholesalersin DFW and I'm like man, there's
deals that I'm actually losingmoney on a flip and those guys
still made money on the frontend, right.
I'm like, how do I figure outhow to do that?
This group out in Midland theywere called the REI Game
Changers.
At the time I met thempresenting on the strategy back
(10:11):
in like 2017 in Midland in thelittle cafe presenting on the
burst strategy.
But I got to know them.
They built out this trainingcourse for wholesaling.
So I went and took their coursethe best $11,000 I've ever
invested because I literally hadto close one single deal to pay
for that course.
So, anyway, I started doingdirect mail, texting, facebook
ads, paper lead.
(10:31):
We've even done radio.
A ton of direct mail has beenone of our best ones and yeah,
so we built that company out.
So that was in 2019.
And I built it out in a marketlike Wyoming where there was
nobody doing any marketing right.
There weren't any wholesalersback in 29th Louis and even
today there's not a whole lot.
So that started leading up mydeal funnel right.
(10:53):
So again, now I feel like I canfind the deal.
I can manage it long-term Now.
The one in the middle, which Ithink was one of the biggest
problems I had to solve, wasinstructing.
I mean, everyone struggles withcontractors everywhere, but in
Wyoming especially, they're justnot enough.
And honestly, that's why I lovethe market so much because the
construction can't keep up withthe demand.
Right, there's not enoughcontractors and there's still a
lot of people that want to liveup there, especially since post
(11:14):
COVID.
Right, they want to be up therebut they can't keep up with the
demand.
So I had to figure out how do Imake my business more
predictable.
And again it came down to assoon as I can get enough rental
properties and enough flipsgoing on, I can afford a
full-time person.
I'm going to hire him, causethen at least I got one guy I
can rely upon.
So that's what I did.
I hired the first one, he hiredsome just kind of laborers and
(11:35):
subs, and then I hired thesecond one and third one, fourth
one.
So now today I have four tofive different breweries working
on all of our four pipes.
They're spread out throughoutthe region.
That way I can be getting.
If I got a rental property thatneeds a quick little handyman, I
send a guy over there, like Ican move quick.
And the biggest thing is on myfix-it clips.
Now I bring so much morepredictability across the
(11:57):
business, right, even in mybuy-in holds that I know I got
to fix up or rent out.
I've added so much morepredictability on timelines,
right and budgets.
So now when I actually go lookat a deal, I'm sure you'd
probably agree, ed, one of thebiggest risks, like when you're
doing construction or value add,is like are you going to be on
target?
Are you going to hit your scope?
Are you going to hit yourtimelines?
Carrying costs, sir, and it wascontinually like the only when
(12:22):
we were like doing after actionreviews, we're looking back,
we're like this is where we'remissing, because we were working
with a GC, or we missed this ormissed that, or we are over
timeline.
So anyway, it was one Iiterated and fixed.
But to answer your question oflike how it goes full circle, I
found in Wyoming it was reallyhard and then I fought it for a
long time just trying to be likeI want to wholesale, like all
(12:43):
my peers that I'm learning fromare they're just finding deals,
locking them up and wholesalingthem and not doing any work and
they're making whatever 20, 30,$40,000 a pop.
And in my market it was justhard for me to find in cash
buyers.
But then I realized, wait, Idon't get to have a bulk ways
right because I have way lesscompetition.
There's not a bunch ofwholesalers competing with, but
(13:04):
there's also not a whole lot ofbuyers like investor buyers.
So my solution to that was raisemore money, take more deals
down myself, because if I couldfind a deal I could do the
construction, I can manage theproperty.
Now it just becomes my solvableproblem was we need to raise
enough capital to take downthese deals, because the retail
market in our markets in Wyomingand Montana there's still
(13:25):
plenty of people buying.
You just got to be the guy thatfixes it up and gets it there.
So that's where kind of BitcoinCapital Fund came into play.
It's like I got to have a wayto scale, keep growing and
deploy more money on dealsbecause it gets expensive, right
?
Ed Mathews (13:38):
You've mentioned a couple of things along the way
here that I want to unpack.
One of them was predictabilityin terms of your construction,
so tell me more about that.
I think I have a preconceivednotion of what you're talking
about but I'm going to make youexplain it instead.
Casey Gregersen (13:54):
So when a deal comes in my pipeline, my
acquisitions team gets a dealand they're bringing it to me
and we're trying to figure outokay, how much is this going to
cost?
What's the timeline?
We now know that I'm talking tothe guy that's going to do the
work and he's quoting it and Iknow his schedule, I control his
schedule and that's probablythe biggest thing I'm going to
get at is I get to control theschedule.
Versus most fixing flippers, oreven if it's your first one,
(14:15):
you find a deal that on paper,it looks like you're buying it
at the right price.
Let's just say you got a goodprice for the rehab budget and
you know the ARV.
You're like, okay, this dealmakes sense, but who's going to
come do the work and when arethey going to go do the work?
And you just talked aboutholding costs.
Right, I can time these thingsout and it just brings so much
more predictability to myinvestors, right.
(14:35):
And the guys I partner with,I'm like, hey, guys, when I say
this is our timeline, this isour budget and I know we can
actually hit it because it's nota third party.
I'm relying upon those guys.
They got to make money, theygot to appease, I don't know,
four or five, maybe 10 differentclients.
I just like the control and thepredictability that they're
in-house guys.
It's just so valuable, Even ifyou just purely timeline, even
(14:56):
if it's not cost.
Fortunately I get cost andtimeline or control.
Ed Mathews (14:59):
Yeah, some of the other things that we've also
done.
I've done both.
I've done the captivecontractor relationship, where
they're pretty much working forus, although they're separate
they're in a 1099, not a W-2.
And we've also brought peopleon and I'll tell you that was a
dream for the exact reason youjust laid out Because between
balancing the flips and therental properties, we could
(15:21):
always keep them busy and therewas always an expert hand that
we could throw at a problem andget it solved very quickly with
somebody that we knew andtrusted.
The other things that we havedone over the years is, you know
, having the same labor is huge,but also we use the same
materials everywhere samecabinets, same flooring, same
paint, all of that and I'mcurious, is that something that
(15:43):
you do as well?
Casey Gregersen (15:44):
We have not taken the time to completely
like.
We have same general paint andflooring, same paint, all of
that and I'm curious is thatsomething that you do as well?
We have not taken the time tocompletely like.
We have same general paint andflooring, but our deals are so
diverse.
Right, every remodel and newconstruction is very tempting
and exciting for me, and we wantto do more of it for that exact
reason.
Ed Mathews (15:59):
But remodels are.
Casey Gregersen (16:00):
Yeah, they're so different and I even like our
like, like even my guys, I lovethey finally think like me,
right, Like it was so cool wewere at.
We have every year we have basecamp and we bring all our teams
together.
This last year we were rightoutside Park City in Evansville,
Wyoming, had everybody thereand it was cool hearing those
guys talk about they're like wegot a fix and they're they've
(16:22):
just I've just trained theseguys.
They budget everything and theyknow they get rewarded in there
.
They just and they're justprincipally rewarded.
We created a competition right,we're being on budget right and
be able to keep our costs down.
So ultimately they just I givethem really full autonomy.
They'll work with an agent tomake sure they don't go do
something crazy or ridiculousthing and sell right, but yeah,
(16:43):
I give them a lot of autonomy togo figure out, like, what is
going to make sense, Because theother thing is sourcing right,
Wyoming it's a lot harder tosort materials, so it's like we
got to put together what'savailable and I give them the
freedom.
Ed Mathews (16:56):
And so how far out are you in terms of ordering
materials and things like that?
Is it just in time, or are youbuilding inventory, or how do?
Casey Gregersen (17:04):
you do that we would love.
We're eventually going to getto that point.
So I did a 66 unit value addand we probably touched almost
30 to 40 of those units.
So on that one we were able toorder a bunch of cabinets, order
countertops, order appliances,order windows, right flooring
and we had enough space to wherewe could do it.
We're doing it now on a hotelconversion up in Wheatland,
(17:27):
wyoming, where I was justvisiting a couple of weeks ago,
and one of the units is allloaded up.
When you can do it right, itdoes save them a lot of time.
But we work with Home Depot.
They're probably a pretty gooddistributor to get stuff, but
the majority of the time if it'sa fix and flip, they just they
go get what they need at HomeDepot or whatever else and they
go.
Ed Mathews (17:43):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was just talking to a buddyof mine down in New Jersey who
does this and he was doing somany flips and converting so
many apartments over the lastfive, six years.
He ended up buying a kitchencabinet distributorship.
He's his own biggest customer,so it's, but he's getting them
at manufactured direct prices.
I was like, wow, that's reallysmart.
(18:05):
But he's a lot bigger than me,so maybe I'll just buy from him
instead, which is actually whathe was trying to do.
That's tempting.
It is right Because it actually, in terms of cash outlay, as
long as you can commit to aspecific amount of sales which
you have access to, because youknow what your sales were in
terms of your material costslast year, In the last two,
(18:28):
three years, you know exactlywhat they were and you know what
your pipeline looks like, soyou know what it's going to look
like more or less in the future.
All you have to do is commit toa certain level of purchases
from the manufacturer andthey'll approve you for
distributorship.
Casey Gregersen (18:42):
Wow, you just gave me a new project for one of
my one of my project.
Ed Mathews (18:45):
All right.
So let's move on to thelightning round here, and I'm
always curious about folks thathave reached a certain level of
success.
The mortgage is paid, the carpayments are taken care of, the
kid's, college education is alllined up, things are good, right
, and nevertheless you get outof bed on Monday morning and
dive right back into the office,and so for me that comes down
(19:08):
to purpose, because it's notmoney that's driving you anymore
, it's something else, and I'mcurious what that is in your
life.
Casey Gregersen (19:13):
Yeah, it's two parts, right it's.
I still am driven by stillhaving even more freedom, like
I'm still in the building phaseand building out different
attorneys.
The latest thing and I'llexplain it with the latest thing
I'm building, but I'm building.
But I'm really excited for theday where I can do a lot more
public speaking and help morepeople, which I guess that's the
purpose, and I'll explain alittle bit more.
Back to that COVID scenario.
(19:34):
I told you about where I was athome.
40% of our team was gettinglaid off.
I'll never forget theconversations I was having with
my colleagues.
They're about like, oh man,what's going to happen if they
call my number?
What am I going to do?
Obviously, no one's hiringright now, or not.
There's not many jobs right nowin oil and gas.
What are we going to do?
And they weren't building thisoff ramp to go right into real
estate.
(19:54):
They had given everything.
They just had their 401k andmaybe their severance and they
were going to have to figure itout.
So I just realized at that timethat while it was really fun
building out these companies,building out my direct-to-seller
company, building outconstruction, building out
property management, what Ifound was those conversations.
And now since then, like anytime, like right now, I'll give you
an example.
(20:14):
Last night I went and did apresentation here in North
Houston and I was presenting onthe revive method and if
anybody's interested later I'llshare a link.
It's a way we structure our fixand flips and we're able to
de-risk almost every fix andflip because we partner with a
seller.
All right, but anyway, I'mgiving the presentation and I'm
sharing my story, and there'sseveral other oil and gas folks
in there that are still working12-hour shifts, like I am.
(20:36):
They're still in the grind andbeing able to connect with them
afterward.
So my next workshop is inOctober.
It's in Houston and I'm likecome to the workshop Because
what I built this workshoparound was helping families
achieve financial freedom.
So they're like my perfectavatar of folks that are still
working their W-2.
They're doing well, right, butthey want something more.
(20:56):
But a lot of times they don'thave time and I had to get older
and more mature and realize andmore self-awareness to realize
not everybody's like me.
On their off days they want tomaybe chill out and go to the
lake.
You guys want to throw a hookin the water.
That's right, exactly.
They're not all built, like me,but I still want to be able to
help those folks to where theycould still.
They're still doing really welland they still have an
opportunity if they just knewhow.
(21:17):
And I'm telling you like I'mlighting up right now, just
thinking about the firstworkshop, because there were so
many things to be covered.
First off, we helped them likewhat is your 10-year vision?
Let's actually get together,get around the right people,
take some time and think aboutthat vision.
Where are you going?
That was the first core thingwe did, and the second thing was
now how do we start to getthere?
(21:38):
What do we do over the next 90days?
And this is where I get lightedup, because I'm like I've just
been through it.
I know what banks they shouldbe talking to, how they should
be leveraging their credit, zeropercentage credit cards,
leveraging self-directed IRAs,all these different ways that
they can deploy money that theyalready have that they probably
don't even realize they have,and deploy it into real estate
(21:58):
or other avenues.
So that's a cup I really like,because I've been doing it
forever and I'm like I know yourposition.
I've been doing it forever andI'm like I know your position.
I've been there.
Let me help you start to createfinancial freedom.
I want people to be able tomake the decision I made.
I finally, after 12 years orwhatever, decided I was going to
choose family over my work.
Right, and I want everyone evenif now's not the right time,
(22:20):
I'm not at all proponent abouteveryone burn the ships, quit
your W-2.
I just want you to be able tohave that choice Right on.
Ed Mathews (22:26):
Yeah, it's the whole concept of time freedom.
You don't realize how amazingand important it is.
I have kids, you have kids, buteven a spouse or a life partner
or whatever.
My grandfather said it best,and that was you only get 18
summers with them.
I was like, oh yeah, you'reright.
And I'm at the end of thatcycle where my youngest is
(22:49):
starting her senior year of highschool on Tuesday, so she's
gone.
And the older one is graduatingfrom college in four months, so
she's gone.
And so now my wife and I arelooking at each other Okay, we
still like each other, so that'scool.
But now what?
Having that time freedom to beable to go to that
parent-teacher conference or thesoccer game or go on vacation
(23:14):
and not have to sweat or evenask a boss?
Hey, I'm going to take 10 daysoff and we're going to go to
Hawaii, is that okay?
There is no, is that okay?
That conversation is happeningat your dinner table, not in a
conference room, right, that'sright.
So and that is probably themost valuable thing that I got
out of this whole experience andsounds like you're similar is
that time freedom is justimmeasurably valuable.
Casey Gregersen (23:37):
Oh yeah, exactly so if I can wake up
every morning helping morepeople feel that same feeling,
because a lot of people don'teven know what it feels like
yeah, they think in future state, when I'm 65, this is going to
be awesome.
Ed Mathews (23:48):
No, you can do it when you're 40, if you want.
Yeah, you can only affect todayand tomorrow.
So I'm also curious about thementors that you've had in your
life.
You mentioned the wholesalingtraining that you got, but I'm
sure there have been otherreally important people in your
life that have guided you alongthe way or kicked you in the
pants when you needed it.
I'm curious what's the bestadvice you ever?
Casey Gregersen (24:08):
got and who gave it to you.
I'll give you a unique one.
It was in a tough time where Iwas doing a bunch of fixed flips
and we were using hard moneyand we were combining with
private money and it was goingreally well.
But all of a sudden, we hitsome bumps in the road and
properties wouldn't sell.
I literally had to call my hardmoney lenders and I had two of
them.
One of them was like a sharkand they were absolutely
(24:31):
terrible as well, but one wasreally good to me and he's the
one I want to share.
He gave me good advice.
He goes Casey, because I calledhim up.
I'm like John.
His name's John.
I'm like John, we're in trouble.
I can't get these propertiessold and we got to get
properties moved and I need someflexibility on our payments.
He goes all right, casey, thatsucks.
I'm sorry.
I wish I could say I haven't,but I've been there and he's
like all you can do now is dropprice.
(24:54):
You need all those propertieson the market.
You need to drop them 10,000every week until you get it sold
and could keep dropping.
So that's what we did.
We dropped them After three orfour weeks.
It just keep dropping.
So that's what we did.
We dropped them.
After three or four weeks itfinally sold and to this day
I've just learned that wheneverI go and I list the flip, and
it's actually why back to thatrevive method.
The revive method is a strategyI do now to fix some flip
properties and it's again I'llshare.
(25:14):
I can share a video, maybe inthe notes of more about it.
But I was thinking about thatthe other day when I was doing
this property where I'mpartnering with the seller, to
where now the house isn'tselling.
And I'll tell you, as a fixedflipper and those of you guys
have done it, the worst feelingever is when you've got a
property that you just finishedflipping right.
You've got through all thecontractor stuff and fixed it up
(25:35):
.
It's on the market and you'reall excited and guess what?
You don't get any offers.
One week, next week, no offers.
Now all you're showing startgoing away and you're just
sitting there stagnant, like, ohmy gosh.
I got to go back to John'sadvice.
I just got to drop 10,000.
Keep dropping.
But the revive method helps me.
We can drop price because we'redoing a profit share with a
seller and we could still makeour money.
(25:56):
Anyway, that's the advice Ialways think about.
Is that guy could have beenlike the other lenders, have
been like I'm foreclosing on youtomorrow and been really
difficult.
But he's no you, I underwrotethis deal correctly.
I'm still going to make money.
So Casey dropped this houseuntil you could sell it, and
then you got paid back.
Yep Good advice.
Ed Mathews (26:15):
So, from a, I fundamentally believe and I've
learned this in the years andyears that I've been in the
actually probably teenage yearswhere I made the most mistakes,
but over the course of my career, I fundamentally believe that
we learn way more from themistakes we make than from the
successes that we have.
And so I'm curious about adecision that you've,
(26:36):
professional decision thatyou've made over the years, that
you look back and go man, I'dlove to have that back and
what'd you do?
Casey Gregersen (26:42):
about it.
I'll tie it to that kind ofsame story.
Right, we were buyingproperties in and around like
Fort Worth, around like thecampus, like TCU, and we were
buying them at a good price.
We had a good GC.
It was actually doing a reallygood job for us, so we would buy
them cheap, fix them up, and wewere refinancing, getting all
our money back.
(27:03):
And we did it on four or fiveproperties and we got this sort
of false sense of wow, what doyou do?
It's not easy, but let's nailit.
Here we go and again I'm likepath leading my W-2.
But we started going and we'relike, all right, let's now go do
some fix and flips at higherprice points, which again got
away from exactly what we weredoing.
Well, and let's go hire aproject manager to put these
together, cause now our currentGC is probably not there.
(27:24):
He was doing these houses thatwere buying for a hundred,
putting in 80 and selling an ARBwas like two, 40, right, low
price points.
But now we're going in somehouses that were like five, six,
700,000, completely differentanimal.
And so new crews kneweverything.
And that's where it started tounwind is now new contractors
and they weren't followingthrough and the biggest wine is
(27:45):
now new contractors and theyweren't following through.
And the biggest here's.
The biggest decision is likewhen those properties wouldn't
sell, I had no choice but to dowhat John said drop 10,000, drop
10 and lose money.
What I learned was in Wyoming Iwas having the opposite right.
I was still able to buy housesat maybe 150,000, put 50 into it
and sell it for 300.
But those houses, if you'refixing and flipping things are
(28:07):
inherently you're going to missstuff, especially when you work
with GC and you don't have yourown.
But on those houses I didn'thave to take a bath, I just
refinanced, put a tenant inthere and I could cover the debt
.
So this is a long way of sayingI wish I would've told myself
back then Casey, always have twoexit strategies, right.
Don't go do a fixing floatwhere your only exit is to sell
(28:27):
at that ARV, because if you missthe ARV you miss the
contractors, all these thingsthat happen, and you only have
one out right.
So I always try to have the twoexit strategies.
Or I do that other thing, whichis the revive method, where I'm
not taking all the risk.
The seller is going to, they'regoing to make a little bit less
on a deal like that Everysingle one has a curve ball,
every single one.
Ed Mathews (28:49):
If I find the one that doesn't have a curve ball,
it goes exactly as planned.
You're going to be able to hearme.
All you have to do is open yourwindow, because I'll be
shouting from the hills becauseI've yet to find one, and I've
been doing it a while Plan A,plan B, sometimes plan C and
plan D as well, sometimes plan Cand plan D as well.
So, yeah, that's excellentadvice.
So how do you take ininformation Like what is the
(29:10):
proverbial book on yournightstand and who, specifically
are you paying attention tothese days?
Casey Gregersen (29:15):
Yeah, I've been really fortunate.
I joined the sub two communitya couple of years ago.
I just started diving in and Iwas already doing deals.
I got into it and I wassurprised at how much content
there was out there, and I'vesince joined Pace Owners Club.
So there's about three or 400people that have joined that and
it's all the higher levelpeople from the Sub2 community.
That's where I like listeningin.
Pace spends a little bit moretime with that group and he's
(29:37):
able to give us access to hisresources and, like his
marketing guys, he just brings alot of other people in so they
just have weekly calls and blend, so they just have weekly calls
.
And that's where I justlistened to one last night.
He's done a lot of good things,but one thing he's great at is
vision and marketing, and thoseare two things that get me
excited and just hearing that.
I've always just lovedlistening to webinars or
workshops or whatever, or booksand learning and implementing,
(29:59):
because I'm like, hey, all right, I can hear something and I
could see it and I can go do it.
It could be a flaw too, cause ifI go to like here, in a couple
of weeks I'll get a collectivegenius, which is a high level
mastermind.
I'm in and I'm going to get 50ideas that I want to do and I'm
going to be like we're going todo all these and I'll go back to
my team and they're like allright, casey, my COO, like what
he can filter them.
But I just love being able tobring in information like that,
(30:20):
adapt being always coursecorrecting, right, yeah, and
adapt or die right yeah.
I couldn't agree more.
Ed Mathews (30:27):
I'm a similar personality.
When I go on vacation, it's themost dangerous thing ever when
I come back, because I come backwith 30 different ideas.
My operations person would belike time out.
Let's pick one, all right.
Like all right, that's her bigmantra.
Let's pick one.
I don't know which one to pick,so I'll let you.
Eventually I get around to it.
Last question in the lightninground I'm always interested in
learning about how people definethe pillars of their life.
(30:50):
Right, I'm curious how youdefine.
I suspect I actually knowthinking about it, but how do
you define success in your life?
Casey Gregersen (30:57):
Think about this for my kids.
I think about what I don'tthink is successful and what
drives me nuts, and it's whenpeople won't just move forward,
take action and go with it.
To me, if you are constantlypushing forward, iterating,
going for it even if you aren'tsuccessful originally, I love it
, and I heard this from ChipGaines years ago in his book
(31:18):
everything I go out and do, it'sa win-win.
Either way, I either go andcrush it and I do well and I'm
excited and successful, or I doit and I'm not as successful,
but I learn something and theniterate and get better.
You don't have to win everysingle one of them, but to me,
success is getting up every dayand going for it, trying
something new right and givingit everything you got.
I always tell my kids lovesports and more athletic than
(31:40):
most.
There's always going to besomebody faster, bigger,
stronger than you, but youcontrol how hard you work and if
you outwork everyone, that'sthe one thing you control right.
Outwork every single person outthere, and that's going to
apply on the sports field,that's going to apply in
business and in life.
So I would say it's acombination of taking action and
failing forward, but alsoeverything you have needs to be
(32:04):
followed.
Ed Mathews (32:05):
Yeah, jay Wright, who's the retired basketball
coach of Villanova, always talksabout you can control two
things on the athletic field,and 100%.
I couldn't agree with you moreis that everything else is a
reaction, but those two thingsyou bring to the athletic field,
the business scenario, whatever, even relationships.
I couldn't agree more.
Difference between and I tellmy kids difference between good
(32:27):
and great is hard work.
It's all it is.
You get on some of theseathletic fields or swimming
pools or whatever sport yourkids are into, and there's a lot
of talented kids, but you cantell the ones that work and the
ones that just rely on thetalent.
It becomes obvious.
So when you're not conqueringthe real estate world, what do
you like to do for fun?
Casey Gregersen (32:47):
Yeah, this is an easy one.
I'm in the middle of it rightnow and I wish I could do it all
the time, but it's coaching myson's football team or any
sports.
I love coaching the kids allfour boys and that's why I love
keep having boys, since I justget more and more boys sports to
coach.
But yeah, my favorite isfootball.
Right Right now I'm coachingtackle football.
I've got a sixth grader andbeing able to like break down,
(33:07):
film and go to practice.
People get paid to do that.
I would do that If everythingwould just be covering.
I could spend half of my daygetting ready for football and
in practice and prepping.
You can't beat it.
There's so much fun.
Ed Mathews (33:18):
You have to talk to your wife one more and you get a
starting five for basketball,too, working.
Yeah, there you go.
I'm working on her, all right,man?
Hey, I've really enjoyed theconversation and getting to know
you a little bit.
If people want to get in touchwith you and learn more about
you, or a Bitcoin capital fundor any of your other businesses,
what's the best way to do that?
Casey Gregersen (33:36):
Yeah, I'll give you guys a couple options
depending on where you're at.
If you're on Instagram orYouTube or anything, it's really
easy.
I'm just , you'll be able tofind me.
Just make sure you spell mylast name with all E and you'll
find me.
Also LinkedIn If you guys areon LinkedIn, just search my name
.
If you guys are just like, hey,I want to like directly reach
out to Casey because I'minterested in his summit, or
(33:56):
interested in Big Horn Capital,or just hey, I want to talk to
you about the revive method, howyou start to be able to
whatever it, I'll just give youmy number it's 307-317-2494.
And you mentioned your summitreal quick.
Why don't you tell us aboutthat real quick before we sign
(34:16):
off?
You bet yeah.
So our next one.
We do them every quarter, butthe next one's here in Houston
October 23rd and it's a two-dayworkshop.
So if anybody wants to comedown, it's actually incredibly
affordable.
Now, eventually, we want togrow and scale these things, but
right now I just want to getthe right people in the room.
I just want to cover my coststo do the events, because to me
it's like I want to have theright people in there and then I
want to see what grows afterthat, because right now our
first one.
I've stayed in contact with allthose people that came to the
(34:41):
first summit.
You guys could swing it andmake it to Houston.
The first group loved it and Iwould love to have some of your
audience there.
Houston's real nice in the fall, that's right.
We'll come in July, so I'm likethis end of the fall will be
great All right, casey, thankyou so much.
Ed Mathews (34:54):
It's really good to see you and I wish you nothing
but continued success.
Be well
Casey Gregersen (34:58):
Awesome.
It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground
.
Thank you so much for making usa part of your day.
I'm really excited because Idiscovered him when he was
flipping houses in Wyoming andelsewhere, and now that company
has grown into three companiesplus.
So with that, I'd love towelcome Casey Gregersen to the
show.
These days we're talking aboutthe Bighorn Capital Fund, but we
can also talk about Weill Homesand Gregersen Proper the show.
These days we're talking abouta Bighorn Capital Fund, but we
(01:05):
can also talk about Weill Homesand Gregersen Properties and
anything else you want to talkabout.
Welcome, Casey, it's good tofinally meet you.
Casey Gregersen (01:12):
You bet Ed Pleasure man Appreciate the kind
words, yeah of course, yeah, Ican't remember.
Ed Mathews (01:17):
I think I discovered you on LinkedIn.
That's usually where I findfolks to have conversations with
and pick their brains, andevery once in a while they're
kind enough to come on the showand have a conversation with me.
So thank you for that.
So, for those folks who haven'tdiscovered you, why don't you
tell us a little bit about whoyou are and what you do?
Casey Gregersen (01:32):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Just everybody right.
You got your where you camefrom, where you're at now, where
you're going, which I thinkeverybody can relate to.
I worked the W2 job for a longtime.
So I started in 2012 for Shellas a petroleum engineer.
So I grew up in Wyoming and Istill invest there today.
So something you'll probablyask later why Wyoming?
Well, it's where I grew up.
(01:53):
It's where I went to gradschool, but I had a great
opportunity to go work inHouston for Shell Shell Oil
Company as a petroleum engineer.
I went to Shell and I workedthere for 12 years, but I had a
really unique gig, which wasgood and bad.
It also led to my true purpose,but one of the best parts about
that gig is I would go out tothe field for two weeks and I'd
(02:14):
work on a drilling rig and I'dactually work nights or be the
guy in charge or I'd be like afield engineer driving around
locations, but for two weeks I'dbe on a rig.
Then for two weeks after that Iwould be off and I wouldn't
even have to open a workcomputer or cell phone.
I had zero workresponsibilities.
So that's when I started buyinghouses.
I was buying my first rental,doing my first house hack,
(02:39):
started fixing and flipping andeventually grew and scaled that
company where just three yearsago almost three years, it'll be
three years in October I leftmy W2 at Shell to go do this
full time and to leave a an oiland gas job you must be doing
very well.
Ed Mathews (02:50):
So I'm curious about that journey from being the
engineer to flipping houses andwhile you were keeping your W2,
that man.
That had to be one heck of ajuggling act.
I know you had time off, butstill you've got family and
other responsibilities as well.
What's that one soft skill orhabit that you learned in the
oil field town that that is nowlike your secret powers in a
(03:14):
real estate world?
Casey Gregersen (03:14):
Man, there's a lot of little ones right and I
always there's lots of littlejabs.
I'll take it my old W2 job andthere was like the one thing was
there was so much red tape.
It was like I was literallyliving two lives right.
I would work for Shell where itwas very slow, methodical.
So much red tape to just get asimple basic decision, have to
get it approved by all thesedifferent people, go through all
(03:37):
these processes and it woulddrive you nuts and it was really
.
It became demotivating becauseyou're just like I could do all
this work and bring all thisvalue and then if I can't get
five sign-offs, it doesn't evenmatter.
So it was frustrating for sure.
But the positive was I learneda lot about building processes
and building out SLBs and afteraction reviews right, like I
(03:58):
feel like that's a very commonthing in today's entrepreneurial
world.
But 10 years ago it wasn'tentrepreneurial world.
But 10 years ago it wasn't andwe, ever since early days with
Shell, after we finisheddrilling a well or whatever
project we did, we got togetherand did an AR and went back and
reiterated our SOP.
So that was a really good thing.
That's helped me buildprocesses and, for example, the
way I put this into play waswhen I built out my property
(04:18):
management team and operationswas.
I literally was actually duringCOVID when everybody's locked
down had nothing to do and wewere actually all post.
We actually it's crazy Shelllaid off 40% of my company that
I was in at the time.
They laid off 40% Because, ifyou remember, it's actually when
oil went negative, so it was areally rough time.
(04:39):
We were cutting 40%, so we werewaiting and we didn't know if
we had a job.
So what I did is rather thanjust sit around and I don't know
what everyone else did maybewatch Netflix I went and I was
managing my rental properties atthe time.
So I was managing probably 10to 15 units up in somewhere in
Fort Worth, somewhere up inWyoming, but I was in Houston.
I read a book that some of youguys maybe your listeners have
(05:01):
read and it's four-hour workweek.
So I read four-hour workweekand they talk about hiring
virtual assistants and that'swhen the light bulb goes off.
I'm like, wait, if I can managethese properties from Houston
and I don't even live in Wyomingor in Dallas-Fort Worth where I
have properties why can I nottrain a VA?
So that's what I did duringCOVID is I buckled down, used
(05:22):
some of those shell corporateAmerica skills, wrote out
everything on a Google doc andrecording myself doing
everything everything fromgetting a property, getting
photos, creating the marketing,creating the Zillow post, the
Facebook post to tenantscreening, everything literally
wrote it all down.
And then I hired a virtualassistant and I trained him.
I'm like all right, here's theSOPs, go follow them.
Ed Mathews (05:44):
And now they own the SOPs and they're the ones To
translate just in case you'renot in corporate America out
there, ar after action report,it's the constant loop of hey,
we did something, hey, we brokesome stuff, here's how we fix it
, here's what worked and here'swhat we're going to do going
forward, basically.
And here's what we're going todo going forward.
Basically, an SOP is thestandard operating procedure
(06:05):
that comes out of, typically, anafter action report, or at
least it's the doc that getsrefined.
So if you've seen any of ourvideos or attended a training or
anything like that, we talkabout this all the time and it's
(06:25):
really how the big players havescaled their businesses,
because they don't rely on a guynamed Casey to do everything.
They've got a team thatunderstands exactly what their
role is within the machine, andso if Casey decides that he
would love to go on vacationwith his beautiful family for a
week or two, turns out themachine continues to roll and
when he gets back, everything'sfine.
Yep, yeah, right on.
It's something that it's acommon thing that I see in all
(06:48):
of the businesses that havefigured out how to scale, and
that is how to createoperational leverage.
Right.
It's how to build that team andslowly but surely remove the
president, founder, ceo,whatever your title you want to
wear out of the day-to-day.
A friend of mine, charlie Millshe was my business coach for
years always talked about thesovereign right.
(07:11):
So you want to be the king, notthe warrior.
The king is the person whoworks on the business.
The warrior is the person whoexecutes.
And it was revolutionary for mebecause I come from a similar
business culture, but not yourbusiness.
I'm a Silicon Valley techie guy.
The interesting part about it isthe early stages of
particularly when I wentfull-time.
(07:31):
I had to really fight, doing itmyself right and really because
I came from environments wherepeople were so off the charts
smart and so competent and soaccomplished.
If we gathered three or fourpeople in a conference room,
came up with a game plan andleft, everybody knew exactly
what to do.
Here I had to take the virtualassistants and train them step
(07:56):
by step.
We're going to break it down.
I know you've done this beforeand I get that, but here's how I
want it done right.
And then the next step issomething that I think you just
alluded to, which was not onlythat, but also, now that you
understand what the standardoperating procedure is, you now
own it Right.
So you're the one who's goingto execute this.
My way doesn't have to be theway.
(08:17):
I don't care about being right,I care about getting it right,
and so if you come up with abetter way, then let's rewrite
the SOP and let's do it your way.
Casey Gregersen (08:27):
Exactly, that's exactly how I built it.
Same fundamentals.
Ed Mathews (08:30):
Part of this is that I'm literally writing a
presentation for a group offolks that I'm mentoring in
October, and I'm literallywriting about standard operating
procedures right now and whythey're so important.
So, in terms of the business,we started off flipping houses.
Obviously, that went extremelywell.
It sounds like you evolved thatinto a rental business and now
we're into private equity.
(08:52):
Talk me through that maturationcycle, and it seems like you
talk about going full-time threeyears ago, but that's not when
you started the business, right?
Let's talk about where youstarted and the journey to get
to where you are today?
Casey Gregersen (09:04):
Absolutely yeah .
So I'll give you in a nutshellhow I built the property
management company and, as Imentioned, that had been like
2020 COVID, right.
The other one that I built acouple of years before that was
direct to seller.
So up until about 2019, I wasfinding deals like on market.
I could go find a distressedproperty, fix it up.
I was doing just commercialloans and I could go a lot of
(09:26):
different ways today, but that'sbeen one I'll give you in 30
seconds.
But one of the best things I didearly on was I started working
in small banks and, instead ofgoing to big mortgage brokers, I
went to a small bank locally inthe town I was investing in and
I did a deal with them.
They got to know me.
So I did a lot of deals likethat where I'd buy it on the
market, fix it up, rent it outor buy it, fix it and flip it
(09:48):
Right.
But I started building that.
But then, as the market startedto heat up, I realized I was
buying from wholesalers.
Actually, this is how itstarted.
So I'm buying from wholesalersin DFW and I'm like man, there's
deals that I'm actually losingmoney on a flip and those guys
still made money on the frontend, right.
I'm like, how do I figure outhow to do that?
This group out in Midland theywere called the REI Game
Changers.
At the time I met thempresenting on the strategy back
(10:11):
in like 2017 in Midland in thelittle cafe presenting on the
burst strategy.
But I got to know them.
They built out this trainingcourse for wholesaling.
So I went and took their coursethe best $11,000 I've ever
invested because I literally hadto close one single deal to pay
for that course.
So, anyway, I started doingdirect mail, texting, facebook
ads, paper lead.
(10:31):
We've even done radio.
A ton of direct mail has beenone of our best ones and yeah,
so we built that company out.
So that was in 2019.
And I built it out in a marketlike Wyoming where there was
nobody doing any marketing right.
There weren't any wholesalersback in 29th Louis and even
today there's not a whole lot.
So that started leading up mydeal funnel right.
(10:53):
So again, now I feel like I canfind the deal.
I can manage it long-term Now.
The one in the middle, which Ithink was one of the biggest
problems I had to solve, wasinstructing.
I mean, everyone struggles withcontractors everywhere, but in
Wyoming especially, they're justnot enough.
And honestly, that's why I lovethe market so much because the
construction can't keep up withthe demand.
Right, there's not enoughcontractors and there's still a
lot of people that want to liveup there, especially since post
(11:14):
COVID.
Right, they want to be up therebut they can't keep up with the
demand.
So I had to figure out how do Imake my business more
predictable.
And again it came down to assoon as I can get enough rental
properties and enough flipsgoing on, I can afford a
full-time person.
I'm going to hire him, causethen at least I got one guy I
can rely upon.
So that's what I did.
I hired the first one, he hiredsome just kind of laborers and
(11:35):
subs, and then I hired thesecond one and third one, fourth
one.
So now today I have four tofive different breweries working
on all of our four pipes.
They're spread out throughoutthe region.
That way I can be getting.
If I got a rental property thatneeds a quick little handyman, I
send a guy over there, like Ican move quick.
And the biggest thing is on myfix-it clips.
Now I bring so much morepredictability across the
(11:57):
business, right, even in mybuy-in holds that I know I got
to fix up or rent out.
I've added so much morepredictability on timelines,
right and budgets.
So now when I actually go lookat a deal, I'm sure you'd
probably agree, ed, one of thebiggest risks, like when you're
doing construction or value add,is like are you going to be on
target?
Are you going to hit your scope?
Are you going to hit yourtimelines?
Carrying costs, sir, and it wascontinually like the only when
(12:22):
we were like doing after actionreviews, we're looking back,
we're like this is where we'remissing, because we were working
with a GC, or we missed this ormissed that, or we are over
timeline.
So anyway, it was one Iiterated and fixed.
But to answer your question oflike how it goes full circle, I
found in Wyoming it was reallyhard and then I fought it for a
long time just trying to be likeI want to wholesale, like all
(12:43):
my peers that I'm learning fromare they're just finding deals,
locking them up and wholesalingthem and not doing any work and
they're making whatever 20, 30,$40,000 a pop.
And in my market it was justhard for me to find in cash
buyers.
But then I realized, wait, Idon't get to have a bulk ways
right because I have way lesscompetition.
There's not a bunch ofwholesalers competing with, but
(13:04):
there's also not a whole lot ofbuyers like investor buyers.
So my solution to that was raisemore money, take more deals
down myself, because if I couldfind a deal I could do the
construction, I can manage theproperty.
Now it just becomes my solvableproblem was we need to raise
enough capital to take downthese deals, because the retail
market in our markets in Wyomingand Montana there's still
(13:25):
plenty of people buying.
You just got to be the guy thatfixes it up and gets it there.
So that's where kind of BitcoinCapital Fund came into play.
It's like I got to have a wayto scale, keep growing and
deploy more money on dealsbecause it gets expensive, right
?
Ed Mathews (13:38):
You've mentioned a couple of things along the way
here that I want to unpack.
One of them was predictabilityin terms of your construction,
so tell me more about that.
I think I have a preconceivednotion of what you're talking
about but I'm going to make youexplain it instead.
Casey Gregersen (13:54):
So when a deal comes in my pipeline, my
acquisitions team gets a dealand they're bringing it to me
and we're trying to figure outokay, how much is this going to
cost?
What's the timeline?
We now know that I'm talking tothe guy that's going to do the
work and he's quoting it and Iknow his schedule, I control his
schedule and that's probablythe biggest thing I'm going to
get at is I get to control theschedule.
Versus most fixing flippers, oreven if it's your first one,
(14:15):
you find a deal that on paper,it looks like you're buying it
at the right price.
Let's just say you got a goodprice for the rehab budget and
you know the ARV.
You're like, okay, this dealmakes sense, but who's going to
come do the work and when arethey going to go do the work?
And you just talked aboutholding costs.
Right, I can time these thingsout and it just brings so much
more predictability to myinvestors, right.
(14:35):
And the guys I partner with,I'm like, hey, guys, when I say
this is our timeline, this isour budget and I know we can
actually hit it because it's nota third party.
I'm relying upon those guys.
They got to make money, theygot to appease, I don't know,
four or five, maybe 10 differentclients.
I just like the control and thepredictability that they're
in-house guys.
It's just so valuable, Even ifyou just purely timeline, even
(14:56):
if it's not cost.
Fortunately I get cost andtimeline or control.
Ed Mathews (14:59):
Yeah, some of the other things that we've also
done.
I've done both.
I've done the captivecontractor relationship, where
they're pretty much working forus, although they're separate
they're in a 1099, not a W-2.
And we've also brought peopleon and I'll tell you that was a
dream for the exact reason youjust laid out Because between
balancing the flips and therental properties, we could
(15:21):
always keep them busy and therewas always an expert hand that
we could throw at a problem andget it solved very quickly with
somebody that we knew andtrusted.
The other things that we havedone over the years is, you know
, having the same labor is huge,but also we use the same
materials everywhere samecabinets, same flooring, same
paint, all of that and I'mcurious, is that something that
(15:43):
you do as well?
Casey Gregersen (15:44):
We have not taken the time to completely
like.
We have same general paint andflooring, same paint, all of
that and I'm curious is thatsomething that you do as well?
We have not taken the time tocompletely like.
We have same general paint andflooring, but our deals are so
diverse.
Right, every remodel and newconstruction is very tempting
and exciting for me, and we wantto do more of it for that exact
reason.
Ed Mathews (15:59):
But remodels are.
Casey Gregersen (16:00):
Yeah, they're so different and I even like our
like, like even my guys, I lovethey finally think like me,
right, Like it was so cool wewere at.
We have every year we have basecamp and we bring all our teams
together.
This last year we were rightoutside Park City in Evansville,
Wyoming, had everybody thereand it was cool hearing those
guys talk about they're like wegot a fix and they're they've
(16:22):
just I've just trained theseguys.
They budget everything and theyknow they get rewarded in there
.
They just and they're justprincipally rewarded.
We created a competition right,we're being on budget right and
be able to keep our costs down.
So ultimately they just I givethem really full autonomy.
They'll work with an agent tomake sure they don't go do
something crazy or ridiculousthing and sell right, but yeah,
(16:43):
I give them a lot of autonomy togo figure out, like, what is
going to make sense, Because theother thing is sourcing right,
Wyoming it's a lot harder tosort materials, so it's like we
got to put together what'savailable and I give them the
freedom.
Ed Mathews (16:56):
And so how far out are you in terms of ordering
materials and things like that?
Is it just in time, or are youbuilding inventory, or how do?
Casey Gregersen (17:04):
you do that we would love.
We're eventually going to getto that point.
So I did a 66 unit value addand we probably touched almost
30 to 40 of those units.
So on that one we were able toorder a bunch of cabinets, order
countertops, order appliances,order windows, right flooring
and we had enough space to wherewe could do it.
We're doing it now on a hotelconversion up in Wheatland,
(17:27):
wyoming, where I was justvisiting a couple of weeks ago,
and one of the units is allloaded up.
When you can do it right, itdoes save them a lot of time.
But we work with Home Depot.
They're probably a pretty gooddistributor to get stuff, but
the majority of the time if it'sa fix and flip, they just they
go get what they need at HomeDepot or whatever else and they
go.
Ed Mathews (17:43):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was just talking to a buddyof mine down in New Jersey who
does this and he was doing somany flips and converting so
many apartments over the lastfive, six years.
He ended up buying a kitchencabinet distributorship.
He's his own biggest customer,so it's, but he's getting them
at manufactured direct prices.
I was like, wow, that's reallysmart.
(18:05):
But he's a lot bigger than me,so maybe I'll just buy from him
instead, which is actually whathe was trying to do.
That's tempting.
It is right Because it actually, in terms of cash outlay, as
long as you can commit to aspecific amount of sales which
you have access to, because youknow what your sales were in
terms of your material costslast year, In the last two,
(18:28):
three years, you know exactlywhat they were and you know what
your pipeline looks like, soyou know what it's going to look
like more or less in the future.
All you have to do is commit toa certain level of purchases
from the manufacturer andthey'll approve you for
distributorship.
Casey Gregersen (18:42):
Wow, you just gave me a new project for one of
my one of my project.
Ed Mathews (18:45):
All right.
So let's move on to thelightning round here, and I'm
always curious about folks thathave reached a certain level of
success.
The mortgage is paid, the carpayments are taken care of, the
kid's, college education is alllined up, things are good, right
, and nevertheless you get outof bed on Monday morning and
dive right back into the office,and so for me that comes down
(19:08):
to purpose, because it's notmoney that's driving you anymore
, it's something else, and I'mcurious what that is in your
life.
Casey Gregersen (19:13):
Yeah, it's two parts, right it's.
I still am driven by stillhaving even more freedom, like
I'm still in the building phaseand building out different
attorneys.
The latest thing and I'llexplain it with the latest thing
I'm building, but I'm building.
But I'm really excited for theday where I can do a lot more
public speaking and help morepeople, which I guess that's the
purpose, and I'll explain alittle bit more.
Back to that COVID scenario.
(19:34):
I told you about where I was athome.
40% of our team was gettinglaid off.
I'll never forget theconversations I was having with
my colleagues.
They're about like, oh man,what's going to happen if they
call my number?
What am I going to do?
Obviously, no one's hiringright now, or not.
There's not many jobs right nowin oil and gas.
What are we going to do?
And they weren't building thisoff ramp to go right into real
estate.
(19:54):
They had given everything.
They just had their 401k andmaybe their severance and they
were going to have to figure itout.
So I just realized at that timethat while it was really fun
building out these companies,building out my direct-to-seller
company, building outconstruction, building out
property management, what Ifound was those conversations.
And now since then, like anytime, like right now, I'll give you
an example.
(20:14):
Last night I went and did apresentation here in North
Houston and I was presenting onthe revive method and if
anybody's interested later I'llshare a link.
It's a way we structure our fixand flips and we're able to
de-risk almost every fix andflip because we partner with a
seller.
All right, but anyway, I'mgiving the presentation and I'm
sharing my story, and there'sseveral other oil and gas folks
in there that are still working12-hour shifts, like I am.
(20:36):
They're still in the grind andbeing able to connect with them
afterward.
So my next workshop is inOctober.
It's in Houston and I'm likecome to the workshop Because
what I built this workshoparound was helping families
achieve financial freedom.
So they're like my perfectavatar of folks that are still
working their W-2.
They're doing well, right, butthey want something more.
(20:56):
But a lot of times they don'thave time and I had to get older
and more mature and realize andmore self-awareness to realize
not everybody's like me.
On their off days they want tomaybe chill out and go to the
lake.
You guys want to throw a hookin the water.
That's right, exactly.
They're not all built, like me,but I still want to be able to
help those folks to where theycould still.
They're still doing really welland they still have an
opportunity if they just knewhow.
(21:17):
And I'm telling you like I'mlighting up right now, just
thinking about the firstworkshop, because there were so
many things to be covered.
First off, we helped them likewhat is your 10-year vision?
Let's actually get together,get around the right people,
take some time and think aboutthat vision.
Where are you going?
That was the first core thingwe did, and the second thing was
now how do we start to getthere?
(21:38):
What do we do over the next 90days?
And this is where I get lightedup, because I'm like I've just
been through it.
I know what banks they shouldbe talking to, how they should
be leveraging their credit, zeropercentage credit cards,
leveraging self-directed IRAs,all these different ways that
they can deploy money that theyalready have that they probably
don't even realize they have,and deploy it into real estate
(21:58):
or other avenues.
So that's a cup I really like,because I've been doing it
forever and I'm like I know yourposition.
I've been doing it forever andI'm like I know your position.
I've been there.
Let me help you start to createfinancial freedom.
I want people to be able tomake the decision I made.
I finally, after 12 years orwhatever, decided I was going to
choose family over my work.
Right, and I want everyone evenif now's not the right time,
(22:20):
I'm not at all proponent abouteveryone burn the ships, quit
your W-2.
I just want you to be able tohave that choice Right on.
Ed Mathews (22:26):
Yeah, it's the whole concept of time freedom.
You don't realize how amazingand important it is.
I have kids, you have kids, buteven a spouse or a life partner
or whatever.
My grandfather said it best,and that was you only get 18
summers with them.
I was like, oh yeah, you'reright.
And I'm at the end of thatcycle where my youngest is
(22:49):
starting her senior year of highschool on Tuesday, so she's
gone.
And the older one is graduatingfrom college in four months, so
she's gone.
And so now my wife and I arelooking at each other Okay, we
still like each other, so that'scool.
But now what?
Having that time freedom to beable to go to that
parent-teacher conference or thesoccer game or go on vacation
(23:14):
and not have to sweat or evenask a boss?
Hey, I'm going to take 10 daysoff and we're going to go to
Hawaii, is that okay?
There is no, is that okay?
That conversation is happeningat your dinner table, not in a
conference room, right, that'sright.
So and that is probably themost valuable thing that I got
out of this whole experience andsounds like you're similar is
that time freedom is justimmeasurably valuable.
Casey Gregersen (23:37):
Oh yeah, exactly so if I can wake up
every morning helping morepeople feel that same feeling,
because a lot of people don'teven know what it feels like
yeah, they think in future state, when I'm 65, this is going to
be awesome.
Ed Mathews (23:48):
No, you can do it when you're 40, if you want.
Yeah, you can only affect todayand tomorrow.
So I'm also curious about thementors that you've had in your
life.
You mentioned the wholesalingtraining that you got, but I'm
sure there have been otherreally important people in your
life that have guided you alongthe way or kicked you in the
pants when you needed it.
I'm curious what's the bestadvice you ever?
Casey Gregersen (24:08):
got and who gave it to you.
I'll give you a unique one.
It was in a tough time where Iwas doing a bunch of fixed flips
and we were using hard moneyand we were combining with
private money and it was goingreally well.
But all of a sudden, we hitsome bumps in the road and
properties wouldn't sell.
I literally had to call my hardmoney lenders and I had two of
them.
One of them was like a sharkand they were absolutely
(24:31):
terrible as well, but one wasreally good to me and he's the
one I want to share.
He gave me good advice.
He goes Casey, because I calledhim up.
I'm like John.
His name's John.
I'm like John, we're in trouble.
I can't get these propertiessold and we got to get
properties moved and I need someflexibility on our payments.
He goes all right, casey, thatsucks.
I'm sorry.
I wish I could say I haven't,but I've been there and he's
like all you can do now is dropprice.
(24:54):
You need all those propertieson the market.
You need to drop them 10,000every week until you get it sold
and could keep dropping.
So that's what we did.
We dropped them After three orfour weeks.
It just keep dropping.
So that's what we did.
We dropped them.
After three or four weeks itfinally sold and to this day
I've just learned that wheneverI go and I list the flip, and
it's actually why back to thatrevive method.
The revive method is a strategyI do now to fix some flip
properties and it's again I'llshare.
(25:14):
I can share a video, maybe inthe notes of more about it.
But I was thinking about thatthe other day when I was doing
this property where I'mpartnering with the seller, to
where now the house isn'tselling.
And I'll tell you, as a fixedflipper and those of you guys
have done it, the worst feelingever is when you've got a
property that you just finishedflipping right.
You've got through all thecontractor stuff and fixed it up
(25:35):
.
It's on the market and you'reall excited and guess what?
You don't get any offers.
One week, next week, no offers.
Now all you're showing startgoing away and you're just
sitting there stagnant, like, ohmy gosh.
I got to go back to John'sadvice.
I just got to drop 10,000.
Keep dropping.
But the revive method helps me.
We can drop price because we'redoing a profit share with a
seller and we could still makeour money.
(25:56):
Anyway, that's the advice Ialways think about.
Is that guy could have beenlike the other lenders, have
been like I'm foreclosing on youtomorrow and been really
difficult.
But he's no you, I underwrotethis deal correctly.
I'm still going to make money.
So Casey dropped this houseuntil you could sell it, and
then you got paid back.
Yep Good advice.
Ed Mathews (26:15):
So, from a, I fundamentally believe and I've
learned this in the years andyears that I've been in the
actually probably teenage yearswhere I made the most mistakes,
but over the course of my career, I fundamentally believe that
we learn way more from themistakes we make than from the
successes that we have.
And so I'm curious about adecision that you've,
(26:36):
professional decision thatyou've made over the years, that
you look back and go man, I'dlove to have that back and
what'd you do?
Casey Gregersen (26:42):
about it.
I'll tie it to that kind ofsame story.
Right, we were buyingproperties in and around like
Fort Worth, around like thecampus, like TCU, and we were
buying them at a good price.
We had a good GC.
It was actually doing a reallygood job for us, so we would buy
them cheap, fix them up, and wewere refinancing, getting all
our money back.
(27:03):
And we did it on four or fiveproperties and we got this sort
of false sense of wow, what doyou do?
It's not easy, but let's nailit.
Here we go and again I'm likepath leading my W-2.
But we started going and we'relike, all right, let's now go do
some fix and flips at higherprice points, which again got
away from exactly what we weredoing.
Well, and let's go hire aproject manager to put these
together, cause now our currentGC is probably not there.
(27:24):
He was doing these houses thatwere buying for a hundred,
putting in 80 and selling an ARBwas like two, 40, right, low
price points.
But now we're going in somehouses that were like five, six,
700,000, completely differentanimal.
And so new crews kneweverything.
And that's where it started tounwind is now new contractors
and they weren't followingthrough and the biggest wine is
(27:45):
now new contractors and theyweren't following through.
And the biggest here's.
The biggest decision is likewhen those properties wouldn't
sell, I had no choice but to dowhat John said drop 10,000, drop
10 and lose money.
What I learned was in Wyoming Iwas having the opposite right.
I was still able to buy housesat maybe 150,000, put 50 into it
and sell it for 300.
But those houses, if you'refixing and flipping things are
(28:07):
inherently you're going to missstuff, especially when you work
with GC and you don't have yourown.
But on those houses I didn'thave to take a bath, I just
refinanced, put a tenant inthere and I could cover the debt
.
So this is a long way of sayingI wish I would've told myself
back then Casey, always have twoexit strategies, right.
Don't go do a fixing floatwhere your only exit is to sell
(28:27):
at that ARV, because if you missthe ARV you miss the
contractors, all these thingsthat happen, and you only have
one out right.
So I always try to have the twoexit strategies.
Or I do that other thing, whichis the revive method, where I'm
not taking all the risk.
The seller is going to, they'regoing to make a little bit less
on a deal like that Everysingle one has a curve ball,
every single one.
Ed Mathews (28:49):
If I find the one that doesn't have a curve ball,
it goes exactly as planned.
You're going to be able to hearme.
All you have to do is open yourwindow, because I'll be
shouting from the hills becauseI've yet to find one, and I've
been doing it a while Plan A,plan B, sometimes plan C and
plan D as well, sometimes plan Cand plan D as well.
So, yeah, that's excellentadvice.
So how do you take ininformation Like what is the
(29:10):
proverbial book on yournightstand and who, specifically
are you paying attention tothese days?
Casey Gregersen (29:15):
Yeah, I've been really fortunate.
I joined the sub two communitya couple of years ago.
I just started diving in and Iwas already doing deals.
I got into it and I wassurprised at how much content
there was out there, and I'vesince joined Pace Owners Club.
So there's about three or 400people that have joined that and
it's all the higher levelpeople from the Sub2 community.
That's where I like listeningin.
Pace spends a little bit moretime with that group and he's
(29:37):
able to give us access to hisresources and, like his
marketing guys, he just brings alot of other people in so they
just have weekly calls and blend, so they just have weekly calls
.
And that's where I justlistened to one last night.
He's done a lot of good things,but one thing he's great at is
vision and marketing, and thoseare two things that get me
excited and just hearing that.
I've always just lovedlistening to webinars or
workshops or whatever, or booksand learning and implementing,
(29:59):
because I'm like, hey, all right, I can hear something and I
could see it and I can go do it.
It could be a flaw too, cause ifI go to like here, in a couple
of weeks I'll get a collectivegenius, which is a high level
mastermind.
I'm in and I'm going to get 50ideas that I want to do and I'm
going to be like we're going todo all these and I'll go back to
my team and they're like allright, casey, my COO, like what
he can filter them.
But I just love being able tobring in information like that,
(30:20):
adapt being always coursecorrecting, right, yeah, and
adapt or die right yeah.
I couldn't agree more.
Ed Mathews (30:27):
I'm a similar personality.
When I go on vacation, it's themost dangerous thing ever when
I come back, because I come backwith 30 different ideas.
My operations person would belike time out.
Let's pick one, all right.
Like all right, that's her bigmantra.
Let's pick one.
I don't know which one to pick,so I'll let you.
Eventually I get around to it.
Last question in the lightninground I'm always interested in
learning about how people definethe pillars of their life.
(30:50):
Right, I'm curious how youdefine.
I suspect I actually knowthinking about it, but how do
you define success in your life?
Casey Gregersen (30:57):
Think about this for my kids.
I think about what I don'tthink is successful and what
drives me nuts, and it's whenpeople won't just move forward,
take action and go with it.
To me, if you are constantlypushing forward, iterating,
going for it even if you aren'tsuccessful originally, I love it
, and I heard this from ChipGaines years ago in his book
(31:18):
everything I go out and do, it'sa win-win.
Either way, I either go andcrush it and I do well and I'm
excited and successful, or I doit and I'm not as successful,
but I learn something and theniterate and get better.
You don't have to win everysingle one of them, but to me,
success is getting up every dayand going for it, trying
something new right and givingit everything you got.
I always tell my kids lovesports and more athletic than
(31:40):
most.
There's always going to besomebody faster, bigger,
stronger than you, but youcontrol how hard you work and if
you outwork everyone, that'sthe one thing you control right.
Outwork every single person outthere, and that's going to
apply on the sports field,that's going to apply in
business and in life.
So I would say it's acombination of taking action and
failing forward, but alsoeverything you have needs to be
(32:04):
followed.
Ed Mathews (32:05):
Yeah, jay Wright, who's the retired basketball
coach of Villanova, always talksabout you can control two
things on the athletic field,and 100%.
I couldn't agree with you moreis that everything else is a
reaction, but those two thingsyou bring to the athletic field,
the business scenario, whatever, even relationships.
I couldn't agree more.
Difference between and I tellmy kids difference between good
(32:27):
and great is hard work.
It's all it is.
You get on some of theseathletic fields or swimming
pools or whatever sport yourkids are into, and there's a lot
of talented kids, but you cantell the ones that work and the
ones that just rely on thetalent.
It becomes obvious.
So when you're not conqueringthe real estate world, what do
you like to do for fun?
Casey Gregersen (32:47):
Yeah, this is an easy one.
I'm in the middle of it rightnow and I wish I could do it all
the time, but it's coaching myson's football team or any
sports.
I love coaching the kids allfour boys and that's why I love
keep having boys, since I justget more and more boys sports to
coach.
But yeah, my favorite isfootball.
Right Right now I'm coachingtackle football.
I've got a sixth grader andbeing able to like break down,
(33:07):
film and go to practice.
People get paid to do that.
I would do that If everythingwould just be covering.
I could spend half of my daygetting ready for football and
in practice and prepping.
You can't beat it.
There's so much fun.
Ed Mathews (33:18):
You have to talk to your wife one more and you get a
starting five for basketball,too, working.
Yeah, there you go.
I'm working on her, all right,man?
Hey, I've really enjoyed theconversation and getting to know
you a little bit.
If people want to get in touchwith you and learn more about
you, or a Bitcoin capital fundor any of your other businesses,
what's the best way to do that?
Casey Gregersen (33:36):
Yeah, I'll give you guys a couple options
depending on where you're at.
If you're on Instagram orYouTube or anything, it's really
easy.
I'm just , you'll be able tofind me.
Just make sure you spell mylast name with all E and you'll
find me.
Also LinkedIn If you guys areon LinkedIn, just search my name
.
If you guys are just like, hey,I want to like directly reach
out to Casey because I'minterested in his summit, or
(33:56):
interested in Big Horn Capital,or just hey, I want to talk to
you about the revive method, howyou start to be able to
whatever it, I'll just give youmy number it's 307-317-2494.
And you mentioned your summitreal quick.
Why don't you tell us aboutthat real quick before we sign
(34:16):
off?
You bet yeah.
So our next one.
We do them every quarter, butthe next one's here in Houston
October 23rd and it's a two-dayworkshop.
So if anybody wants to comedown, it's actually incredibly
affordable.
Now, eventually, we want togrow and scale these things, but
right now I just want to getthe right people in the room.
I just want to cover my coststo do the events, because to me
it's like I want to have theright people in there and then I
want to see what grows afterthat, because right now our
first one.
I've stayed in contact with allthose people that came to the
(34:41):
first summit.
You guys could swing it andmake it to Houston.
The first group loved it and Iwould love to have some of your
audience there.
Houston's real nice in the fall, that's right.
We'll come in July, so I'm likethis end of the fall will be
great All right, casey, thankyou so much.
Ed Mathews (34:54):
It's really good to see you and I wish you nothing
but continued success.
Be well
Casey Gregersen (34:58):
Awesome.
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