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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ed Mathews (00:00):
Greetings and salutations.
Real Estate Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews with the RealEstate Underground.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
For those of you who have beenlisteners all along or have just
discovered us, thank you If youcould do me one favor, and that
is to make sure you follow theshow or subscribe, depending on
the platform you listen to us onbecause it definitely helps us
(00:22):
grow and reach more investorsout there so that we can help
them as well.
So with that today, I'm joinedby Nathan Turner.
He is the owner and presidentof Earnest Investing.
He also runs expo that I amabsolutely fascinated and
interested in, called theDiversified Mortgage Expo, and
that's coming up first week ofMay, I believe May 2nd.
(00:42):
Yeah, fantastic, and any excuseto visit Nashville.
I am down.
But before we get into that,Nathan, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
Nathan Turner (00:52):
Oh pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Ed Mathews (00:54):
Yeah.
So for those folks who aren'tin the mortgage note world, why
don't you tell us a little bitabout your business, and maybe
both about earnest and thediversified mortgage expo?
Nathan Turner (01:10):
Sure.
So, like so many people, I gotstarted in real estate doing
actual real estate where I wasflipping houses, and then I got
one property that I couldn'tsell so I ended up renting it
out.
So that was kind of myintroduction to real estate and
I'm super glossing it over.
But to fast forward and I wasintroduced into this world of
not buying properties.
And I was introduced into thisworld of not buying properties
but instead buying mortgages.
So instead of buying the house,I'm just buying the mortgage
which is attached to the house.
(01:31):
The house is acting ascollateral.
So I moved from being thehands-on real estate investor to
the lean investor where I'mjust buying the lean attached to
the property and I love it.
I just think it's so much fun.
It's got a lot more flexibility, it's a lot easier to deal with
.
I don't actually have to swinga hammer like ever.
Ed Mathews (01:50):
So that's nice no toilets to replace, no paint to
spread right.
Nathan Turner (01:54):
Yeah, so that's the very fast version.
I got involved in that in 2009,started buying non-performing
loans where people were notmaking payments in 2010.
It was actually really fun.
It's very dynamic, there'sdifferent things happening all
the time, and so you'reconstantly problem solving,
which was great, but it's achallenge at the same time.
Ed Mathews (02:15):
Without a doubt.
Nathan Turner (02:16):
So then we put together this fund and changed
gears.
We're now buying performingloans excuse me where people are
making regular payments.
They're just, they're fareasier to manage, especially
when I'm borrowing money frominvestors.
Then I know I can manage loansexcuse me where people are
making regular payments.
They're just, they're fareasier to manage, especially
when I'm borrowing money frominvestors.
Then I know I can manageexpectations a lot easier
because I know what to expect.
And then, a couple of years ago, I took over this conference.
Diversified Mortgage Expo 2025will be the 10th anniversary and
(02:38):
the third year that I'm runningit.
Congrats, very excited for that.
Can't wait to have that goingon and it's going to be a good
one, Fantastic.
Ed Mathews (02:45):
So let's talk about the expo first.
Just quick.
So who is your audience there?
Who should attend?
Nathan Turner (02:51):
It's fascinating.
Anytime you're doing any kindof marketing, you should really
target in on who your market is.
It's hard for us to do thatbecause we get anything from
people that are brand new tonotes they heard about it once,
literally.
From people that are brand newto notes they heard about it
once, literally.
We had last year a guy fromUtah.
He had heard about it the weekbefore and, oh, that sounds like
an interesting thing.
So he booked his ticket and offhe came, and so we've got
(03:12):
anywhere, from guys that havebarely heard about this to guys
that are running multimilliondollar funds and everybody in
between, and so it's really aninteresting dynamic.
We do an informal show of handswho's brand new to notes, who's
done a dozen deals, who's done50 deals, who's done this for
years and has a hundred plusloans under their belt and
(03:32):
there's a pretty even spreadacross all those categories.
So it's for anybody who'sinterested or involved in notes
in any way.
We're very heavy on thenetworking where people can just
come together and learn andnetwork, because that's how
deals get done.
It's very much a relationshipbusiness and that's a big deal
in business.
Ed Mathews (03:48):
So let's talk about that a little bit and maybe move
a little bit over towards theearnest investing piece.
So when you're a note investor,can you walk me through the
process of how you identify orfind notes, how you acquire them
, what you have to do to servicethem?
Educate me on that, because I'mone of those newbies that
actually may be at yourconference raising their hand.
(04:09):
I've never done this before.
Nathan Turner (04:11):
Yeah, it's really cool.
So how you find them?
Ed Mathews (04:14):
that's the best kept secret you, me and a handful of
people that may be listening tomy notes, but you won't care.
Nathan Turner (04:19):
It's really.
It really is all about thenetworking.
You're talking to differentpeople.
So I went to my very first noteconference in 2009 and I'm the
Canadian guy, so I was theCanadian note guy and that
helped me to stick out, whichwas fantastic.
That really helped a lot.
And then it's really just aboutgetting to know who the players
are.
Who's got what, becauseeverybody who's in notes is
(04:40):
either buying or selling or both, and so, as you get to know
these people be like hey, youknow what I'm interested in that
.
Would you mind sending medetails on what you've got and
let's see if we can make a deal.
And it's very grassroots.
There's really one there'smaybe two websites out there
where you can actually go andlook for loans that are for sale
.
There's not like a regular MLSthe one that's probably the most
popular that I actually helpedthem my semi claim to fame where
(05:04):
I helped them develop theirprogram at the very beginning,
which was tons of fun and reallygreat guys.
It's called paper stack Okay,so that's paper stack with no K
on the endcom, and it's a greatsite where anybody who has a
note that they want to sell canjust list it and then, of course
they get a fee anytime salegoes through, but other than
that it's just very much a.
(05:25):
If people want to look andbrowse and see what's available
for sale, that's a great placeto go.
They're not all going to begreat deals and that's where
you're going to have to get somekind of education.
You got to get to know whatyou're doing, because just
because you've done real estatedoes not mean you can do now.
It's not the same.
Ed Mathews (05:40):
I've done hundreds and hundreds of physical real
estate deals and I don't knowthing one about buying mortgages
Although I do know that I havebeen bought and sold behind the
scenes and the entity I waspaying six months ago is not the
entity I'm paying today.
Nathan Turner (05:57):
Yeah, and that's exactly what it is.
So that's somebody either alarger entity or somebody it
could be even a smaller guy likeme where they'll come in and
buy the note.
So, instead of now paying BankA, now you're paying LLC me, and
that can very well happen, andso I just step into the role as
bank.
Ed Mathews (06:12):
Okay, so let's say I'm a mortgage broker and I
focus on investors, right?
So I'm a commercial lender andso I have a loan from Ed Mathews
.
It's say mathematic simplicitymillion dollars with a 10 year
maturity.
So why would you want to buythat?
Nathan Turner (06:29):
loan from me, so I want to buy it because I want
the cashflow.
That's really what it comesdown to for me.
At the bank, they're willing tosell it for the same reason,
they would rather have a chunkof cash today instead of
collecting those payments overtime.
I'm in the opposite camp rightnow.
Today, instead of collectingthose payments over time, I'm in
the opposite camp right nowwhere I would rather have those
payments over time, and it bothfor the fund itself, where I can
(06:50):
start collecting these and thenpay investors, and then, of
course, I get paid in themeantime as well.
The whole goal of that wholeoperation is to fund my own
portfolio, so I'm trying tobuild up my own retirement
portfolio so that I've gotenough notes that I'm personally
responsible for, that I'vebought myself that I can write
off in the sunset and my wifeand I can go and travel and do
(07:12):
all those fun things as my kidsare starting to get older and
moving out of the house.
Ed Mathews (07:17):
Yeah, fantastic.
So on that million dollar note,you approach the bank and say,
okay, hey, I want to buy Ed'snote.
How does that work?
Or maybe they pick the phone upand call you and say, hey,
we've got this.
And I know you buy probablymore than one, but let's just
for educational purpose, let'sjust do the million dollar note.
Nathan Turner (07:34):
Yeah, it mostly is whoever is holding the note
and they want to sell it.
That's typically how that goes.
I knock on some doors and makesome calls and say, hey, do you
have anything you're looking tosell?
But more often than not they'rereaching out to whoever the
buyer is going to be.
Okay, and yeah, go ahead.
Then there's all kinds ofdifferent shapes and sizes, so I
concentrate on residentialmortgages, so the types of loan
(07:55):
that I buy.
Typically, the balance is goingto be under 250,000.
So a commercial note for amillion?
Absolutely, those are out thereand you can get those all day.
Ed Mathews (08:03):
What's your version?
Let's do the 250 residential.
Nathan Turner (08:06):
Let's stick to your world so let's say then
let's give a scenario so we'vegot a house worth $250,000.
Let's say they did a $50,000down payment.
So now there's a note for$200,000.
Whoever's holding that note,they call out to me and say, hey
, we just want to cash out, wewant to go and do something else
(08:30):
with this money, and that'sfine.
What are you willing to pay forit?
So I look at that.
One of the very first things I'mlooking at is what's the
interest rate?
Because I'm buying for aspecific yield target.
So if they lent that money outat three or four or 5%, my
discount to get to where I wantto be is going to be huge.
So it's unlikely that sale isever going to happen.
Just because there's going tobe such a big difference in what
(08:52):
I'm willing to pay versus whatthey have for sale.
And it makes sense becauseagain, they're at whatever call
it 5%.
I want to be at 12% In order toget my 12%.
That discount is going to beenormous, so it's probably not
going to go anywhere.
So right now I'm mostly lookingfor seller financed notes.
So that's, somebody owned aproperty, they sold it on terms.
(09:13):
They created a note, probablyat more like eight or nine or
10%, that kind of an interestrate.
That's a lot easier for me toget it to 12.
My discount is going to be alot smaller, much smaller
haircut, and then we canprobably start working on a deal
.
Two major factors are interestrate and time.
How long is that term?
Is it a 10 or a 12 or a 20 or a30?
(09:36):
And that those make a bigdifference.
Ed Mathews (09:39):
Sure Cause.
Yeah, you're figuring yieldover a span of time so you can
be more flexible on a muchlonger term.
No, exactly, Okay.
So that $200,000 mortgage note,just give me a ballpark and it
can be a range even.
What would you potentially be?
Let's say, at 10%, what wouldyou be paying roughly and I know
(09:59):
I'm putting you on the spot,but I'm actually very curious
about the math here Rough orderof magnitude, what would you be
offering?
Give me a range so I don'tcause you any problems with your
negotiation.
Nathan Turner (10:08):
Sure, yeah, and it's a great question and really
what it comes down to.
It's hard to ballpark itbecause I'm not a math genius.
I don't know why they don'tteach us in high school, and
that's my little soapbox is whyare we doing the scientific
calculator?
It makes no sense.
Nobody ever uses that.
Again, why not teach afinancial calculator that
everybody will use all the time?
Anytime you get any loan foranything, which we all do,
(10:32):
wouldn't it be nice to know whatyou're going to be paying for
that loan over time?
It's at the very least.
Ed Mathews (10:37):
So, anyhow, that's there's my answer, so I'm going
to ask you a really dumbquestion then, and I appreciate
the complexities of this, so Iunderstand why you're not
letting me get away with myinitial question.
But that's okay.
But into the calculator wecould come up with a number.
You know, maybe we'll do a sidevideo on that at some point.
I do want to learn that.
So the question is on that$200,000 balance, are you
(10:58):
offering hypothetically $190,000and the bank is taking that, or
$210,000 and you're recoupingyour money back over the course
of time?
That's a good question.
Nathan Turner (11:08):
What's your thinking?
there recouping your money backover the course of time, like,
how does that?
What's your thinking there?
So it will be at some kind of adiscount.
So whether that's 190 or 160,it's somewhere in that range,
and that's going to be againdependent on a few things.
So again, what's that interestrate?
How long is the term?
The longer the term, the easier.
The less of a discount that'sgoing to be, sure, there's.
(11:29):
Where is it located?
Texas is very different thanNew Jersey, and so that that
plays into it as well.
And then what's the underlyingvalue of the property?
That's also a factor.
So there's a lot of things thatgo into it.
But let's just pretend, allthings being equal, it's going
to be some kind of a numberthat's going to get me to 12%
yield, Okay.
So that's really what I'm after.
Ed Mathews (11:49):
So then, that next question then is why would the
bank loan out 200,000 and accept160 to move off of that loan?
What's in it for them?
There's a few things.
Nathan Turner (12:00):
So banks in general, when they're selling
their loans, typically they'reselling large pools off to other
banks, and so they might justbe going par and they're just
looking to recycle their capital.
So they want to get theirliquidity back and then they can
go and lend it out to somethingelse, and just that's the
nature of it.
They might have some fees inthere or something like that,
(12:22):
and that's how they can justifyto their shareholders that, why
they're doing this.
Ed Mathews (12:27):
So they're making their money on the origination
fees and the other fees thatthey're selling off and then
getting back to zero, basically,and then taking that capital
and loaning it out to five otherpeople.
Nathan Turner (12:39):
And that's assuming that all these loans
are performing, where they aremaking payments.
If you go back in time, 10, 15years, where so many of these
mortgages were not makingpayments, that's a different
story.
They were letting those go for30 cents on the dollar because
on their balance sheet ifsomebody's not making payment to
them, it's actually worth zero.
It doesn't matter what thebalance is, it doesn't matter
(12:59):
any of those things, it'sactually worth zero.
So they were willing to sell atsteep discounts for a number of
years where there were justthere were thousands and
thousands of them.
Wow, so that's on the bank,performing non-performing.
On the personal side, ifsomebody just owns a second
property and they sell it onterms and create a note, they
want cash today instead of cashover time.
(13:20):
Sure, so for maybe they gotanother investment, maybe they
want to renovate the kitchen,they want to send a kid to
college, who knows Whatever.
Ed Mathews (13:30):
All kinds of reasons why would they rather have cash
today?
Okay, I know more about notesthan I did when we first started
talking.
Nathan Turner (13:33):
Thank you.
There you go, all right.
Ed Mathews (13:34):
Hopefully everybody else has been taking notes too.
So let's talk about the otherend of it, the investor side.
So, with regard to yourinvestor clients, let's say I'm
an accredited investor, right,and I'm looking to diversify out
of multifamily because cashflowis pretty tight, pretty hard to
find these days.
What is your pitch to a guylike me who's looking for at
(13:58):
least north of the prevailinginflation right?
So four or five, 6% plus.
Nathan Turner (14:04):
Yeah.
So a couple of things.
Number one hopefully you've gotsome money set aside in your
IRA because you're growing ittax-free.
As a Canadian, I don't have onebecause I'm Canadian, but I can
use other people's IRAs andhelp them get some really great
returns.
So that's the first thing,whether it's cash on hand or an
IRA, but think about it.
If it's an IRA, because you'vegot some really great
(14:24):
opportunities there.
What I say is this is your sleepat night money.
We pay an 8% annual return, soit's not the highest thing out
there a multifamily or something.
In theory, it can pay a wholelot more.
And there's a lot ofinvestments that people go into
where it's at least partiallyspeculative, where we're going
to make some money and there'sgoing to be a payout five years
from now or something like that.
(14:45):
Do some of those things becauseyou can get some fantastic
returns.
This, on the other hand, it's alower return, but it is very
secure, where everything we buyis secured by real estate.
We buy at a minimum 25% equityspread.
So if the house is worth 200,I'm not going to pay more than
150 for that because I want tomake sure there's an equity
(15:05):
spread in case of the wholeworld blows up again and
everything drops and values dropand everything else.
Ed Mathews (15:11):
I'm still up 35%.
You're still in the money.
We're still okay.
Nathan Turner (15:15):
So that's why this is such a great investment
at least part of what you've gotthat you want to invest.
Ed Mathews (15:22):
Got it Interesting.
Okay, so definitely aretirement play, which is very
intriguing to me being an olderguy.
Definitely a retirement play,which is very intriguing to me,
being an older guy.
Okay, so, as far as the funditself, is this for accredited
investors only, or cansophisticated investors get
involved, or how do you operatefrom a Regulation D perspective?
Nathan Turner (15:41):
Yeah, we're Reg D 506C, so it's for accredited
investors.
Okay, and man, we debated along time about that, if we
wanted to do one or the other,or maybe even both.
And at the end of the day, I'mstarting to get older as well,
and you know what.
I'm trying to make my lifesimple, so we're trying to keep
everything very simple, and I'mlooking to ride off in the
(16:02):
sunset, so I don't need to loseany more hair.
I don't have much to discuss.
Ed Mathews (16:05):
So it's yeah, and I wholeheartedly agree.
Right, keep it simple.
I met this gentleman a coupleof weeks ago.
I shouldn't mention his name soI won't but the one thing I was
like you have any advice for me?
And he said, don't add steps.
And I'm like, oh my God, that'sfantastic.
Yeah, I love that, cause I amone of those guys that I don't
know, maybe it's I'm insecureabout my intellect or something
(16:27):
but I always try to make it morecomplex than it needs to be,
and so I try really hard not toadd steps and to have that.
That's great.
That's been my mantra for thelast six weeks.
Yeah, I wish I learned it 20years ago.
But Right, yeah, okay.
So in terms of the, let'sswitch to the expo and then
(16:49):
we're going to get into thelightning round.
So, in terms of the expo, ifyou're interested in any way,
shape or form about the notesindustry or how to get into it
or how it works, this isprobably a really good event for
you.
Nathan Turner (16:58):
It is.
We've got somebody fromMortgage Bankers Association
coming give us an update whatthey see coming down the pipe.
This year is a very interestingyear.
We've got all kinds ofannouncements coming out of
Washington that are makingpredictions very difficult, and
so we're all trying to navigatethat and to see where we're
going, and it's making it veryinteresting.
We're keeping a close eye andjust watch and see what's going
(17:21):
to happen, because who knows?
So anyway, we've got peoplecoming to talk about different
kinds of notes and differentways that you can get involved.
We've got a panel with thenewer note investors.
We're calling that one things Ilearned in my first two years
and just getting theirperspective.
What are some of the thingsthat they learned and what are
the things that they didn't knowto expect.
(17:42):
I think that's going to be aninteresting one.
It's all on the website ifpeople want to go check that out
, but we're looking forward toit.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Ed Mathews (17:48):
Excellent.
One other thing that I'mcurious about before we move
into the lightning round, sowith non-performing notes, what
are some of the strategies youuse to get Ed Mathews, who is a
couple months behind on hismortgage, for whatever reason?
What do you do to get Ed backon track?
Nathan Turner (18:05):
First thing we do is just talk and say, okay, so,
ed, what happened, where areyou at and what's going on?
It is incredibly common wheresomebody just lost a job and
they just they're about to starttheir new job but they haven't
gotten paid yet and so they'rejust trying to make ends meet.
I totally get it.
Look, we've all been there.
I totally get that.
We're not interested in almostin every case, I'm not
(18:27):
interested in taking your house.
I actually don't want it.
It's more work, like once I ownthe property, then there's
automatic liability that comeswith that and work that I've got
to put into it and more stufffor me to do.
And I'm again, I'm trying tosimplify, so I'm really
motivated to help you stay there.
So if that means we have toadjust your interest rate or
(18:51):
stretch out the amortization tomake your payments go down and
we've done all of the abovewhere we've raised interest
rates, lowered, stretched outthe amortization, shrunk it down
, payments have gone up or down,whatever works we'll have a
conversation and figure outwhat's going to be the best way
to get you back on track andwhat does that look like?
Now you've got these arrears,what do we do with the arrears?
(19:12):
Do we add that back into thetotal?
Do we forgive part of it?
Do we make that payable for thenext year to your higher
payments for the next 12 monthsto pay off that arrears?
We can do all kinds of stuffand we can just get creative and
see what's going to work.
So we're very motivated to getthat done.
Barring that if the house isvacant, we'll try to find the
(19:33):
person, see if they are able tojust sign the property over and
do cash for keys where they'llsign the property over in
exchange for wiping out the loan.
Worst case scenario we do aforeclosure, which is really
just a matter of time and money.
I've never had it where theforeclosure hasn't gone through.
99% of the time when weforeclose it's on an empty
property and we can't find theborrower.
(19:54):
In that case we'll do theforeclosure because that's
what's left to us.
Ed Mathews (19:58):
And I think what you're saying is really
important, because being a noteinvestor, especially with
non-performing notes, doesn'tmean you're in the business of
making people homeless, right,in fact, just the opposite.
Nathan Turner (20:08):
Yeah, no.
And even you can run throughthe different scenarios and
actually having somebody stay intheir home and then start
making payments again, even ifthat means I'm going to collect
for a little bit and then resellthat loan at some point.
In almost every case that'sactually the most financially
beneficial exit strategy for meanyway.
So I'm extra motivated to havethat happen because not only
(20:31):
does it feel good, but I'llactually make the most money if
I do that.
Ed Mathews (20:34):
Because you converted a non-performing into
a performing note, right, yeah,yeah, so fantastic, all right,
good, all right, time for thelightning round.
So the final five.
Really, I'm trying to get intoyour head a little bit, okay,
sure, I'm curious about whatgets people up out of bed on
Monday morning.
So let's talk about purpose.
What is your purpose?
Nathan Turner (20:54):
Purpose.
I love business.
I really like just the wholeidea of business.
I was actually talking to agroup of grade nine kids this
morning and talking about I wasexplaining macroeconomics.
It's just fun for me.
It's really interesting to seehow it works and why it works
and why we do what we do.
So that's a big one.
And then it's just my ultimategoal right now is, looking
(21:17):
towards retirement, building upwhat I need for me and my wife
to just go and do whatever visitkids, travel other places or
not, or stay at home and lendout cash to somebody else,
whatever.
That's kind of the ultimatething that we're looking forward
to right now.
Awesome.
Ed Mathews (21:33):
I'm always interested in learning about
mentors and how they've affectedyour life, so I'm curious about
the best advice you've evergotten and who gave it to you.
Nathan Turner (21:41):
So you gave this one to me earlier and so I had a
chance to think, so I had lotsof really great advice.
But one of the ones that sticksout to me earlier, and so I had
a chance to think, so I hadlots of really great advice, but
one of the ones that sticks outto me was just, it was a life
thing, it wasn't really abusiness thing, and it was.
I was probably 17, 18 years oldand I was doing a public
speaking thing at church and soI was nervous and not exactly
sure and whatever.
(22:01):
And there was an older guy partof her congregation and it was
after I was done and he waschatting with me.
He said, hey, you did a greatjob, that was really good.
Here's what you do you stand up, you take a deep breath, you
let it out.
If you want to close your eyes,you can do that and then you
just go.
And I was like I like that alot, like that really just
helped.
And I've used that many times,like before I go up on stage,
(22:25):
I'll just take a deep breath,let it out.
Okay, now let's go and you justget to work.
Ed Mathews (22:30):
Yeah, and my I would add to that.
I always find a friendly facesomewhere in the audience or
somebody that's smiling at you,and whenever you start to feel
the beads of sweat forming onyour brow, you go back to that
person and take a breath andjust keep going.
So that's great advice, so I'malways interested in.
I think you learn more fromyour mistakes than you do from
your successes, so I wouldn'tnecessarily change it.
Nathan Turner (22:51):
However, that being said, early on, before I
(23:13):
got into real estate, my wifeand I opened a Curves franchise.
We actually had two of them andit was great.
The problem is it would wreckthe rest of my life.
So it's hard to go back and saythis, but if we had listed
those clubs for sale one yearearlier, we would have cashed
out and had just a big chunk ofmoney.
Instead.
We wrote it until the greatrecession hit and, of course,
when people are nervous aboutfinances, they cancel a gym
(23:33):
membership, yep.
So we wrote it until we endedup carrying a huge amount of
debt that we ended up having topay off over years.
And, like I say, that actuallyturned out to be a blessing in
disguise, because that helped usfigure out how to do that, how
to overcome issues and problemsand how to pay back these big
sums of money that we're nowowing because we didn't list
(23:56):
early on in the process.
But in the end, it turned outto be a good thing.
Ed Mathews (24:01):
Better to sell a year early than a year late.
Yep, got it.
How about how you sharpen yoursaw right?
We're always looking to learn,and so I'm curious about the
book on your nightstand virtualor physical, yeah, and who are
the authors that you're payingattention to these days?
Nathan Turner (24:18):
Interestingly enough, I switch back and forth,
so I've got two books on the goright now.
The one on my nightstand isJames and the Giant Peach by
Roald Dahl, and it was because Igot the whole set from Roald
Dahl last Christmas and I stillhaven't gone through them all
yet.
So I'm reading through those.
So I've done Charlie and theChocolate Factory and the Great
(24:39):
Glass Elevator and the Witchesand all these fantastic books
that I loved when I was a kid,and so that's one of them.
The more kind of serious bookthat the nonfiction that I'm
reading right now is called theDiabetic Code, and that's a
recommendation by a friend ofmine who's a doctor, and because
I went to the doctor recentlyand he said that I'm almost
pre-diabetic, I'm like what me,are you kidding?
(25:01):
So I'm trying to learn a littlebit more about that.
How, trying to learn a littlebit more about that?
How do I make sure that I canlive a nice long life?
Ed Mathews (25:06):
Yeah, that would be wonderful, Sugar bad.
That's where it starts.
Essentially, yeah, all right.
And then, finally, I'm curious,either in your personal life or
professional or both, how youdefine success.
Nathan Turner (25:18):
Hey, yeah, again.
You know that, beginning withthe curves, that was going
downhill so fast and it was veryhard to navigate.
It's the old proverb you getknocked down, you get back up.
It's just, you're gettingknocked down and the ability and
how quickly you get back up andget back to it.
You can take a lump, and that'sfine and it's going to hurt and
(25:38):
you can even nurse it for aminute, but then get back up and
get back to work, and to methat's what that is.
Ed Mathews (25:45):
Excellent, all right , nathan.
So when you're not saving theworld from mortgage notes, what
do you like to do for fun?
Nathan Turner (25:52):
I live just outside of the Rocky Mountains
in Canada, so I'm in themountains as often as I can,
whether that's hiking in thesummer or snowboarding in the
winter.
That's my happy place.
That's where I like to be.
Ed Mathews (26:03):
It's a nice place to be, yeah, and so if somebody
wants to learn about theDiversified Mortgage Expo coming
up again, it's coming up May2nd and 3rd in Nashville, and if
you haven't had the opportunityto walk Broadway, I highly
recommend it because it'sdefinitely worth a Thursday
night prior to, and maybe even aFriday morning prior to, this
(26:24):
event, and the event itself isgoing to be something I'm
probably attending as a newbie.
So if they want to learn aboutthat, what's the best way to get
involved or learn more aboutthat expo?
Nathan Turner (26:34):
So the website diversifiedmortgageexpo.
com is the place to go.
Okay, so the tip is theThursday night.
Included with your ticket is wedo an axe throwing tournament.
So it's just a little bit offof Broadway but anybody who
wants can come and eitherparticipate or just watch and be
in that competition to be theaxe throwing champion of the
(26:54):
year, and it's all aboutnetworking.
So we do that so that peoplecan get together and have a good
fun time together, meetingpeople, so that Friday morning
when the conference starts, youalready know how to price people
.
Beautiful, great, idea.
Ed Mathews (27:08):
And if someone's looking people, so that Friday
morning when the conferencestarts, you already know how to
price people.
Beautiful, great idea.
And if someone's looking tolearn more about earnest
investing.
Nathan Turner (27:16):
What's the best way to learn more about that?
We're very creative on ournames.
Ed Mathews (27:17):
That one's earnestinvesting.
com.
That's pretty much it.
Keep it simple right.
Nathan Turner (27:19):
Yeah, so earnestinvesting.
com.
There's links on both thosesites to each other, so if you
want to go to one or the other,then all the links to the other
one.
That works too.
Ed Mathews (27:27):
All right.
Nathan Turner, thank you somuch for your time today.
I am a lot smarter than I waswhen we first started this
meeting.
Thank you very much, and it'sreally good to see you.
Nathan Turner (27:37):
Good Thanks.
Greetings and salutations.
Real Estate Undergrounders.
It is Ed Mathews with the RealEstate Underground.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
For those of you who have beenlisteners all along or have just
discovered us, thank you If youcould do me one favor, and that
is to make sure you follow theshow or subscribe, depending on
the platform you listen to us onbecause it definitely helps us
(00:22):
grow and reach more investorsout there so that we can help
them as well.
So with that today, I'm joinedby Nathan Turner.
He is the owner and presidentof Earnest Investing.
He also runs expo that I amabsolutely fascinated and
interested in, called theDiversified Mortgage Expo, and
that's coming up first week ofMay, I believe May 2nd.
(00:42):
Yeah, fantastic, and any excuseto visit Nashville.
I am down.
But before we get into that,Nathan, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
Nathan Turner (00:52):
Oh pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Ed Mathews (00:54):
Yeah.
So for those folks who aren'tin the mortgage note world, why
don't you tell us a little bitabout your business, and maybe
both about earnest and thediversified mortgage expo?
Nathan Turner (01:10):
Sure.
So, like so many people, I gotstarted in real estate doing
actual real estate where I wasflipping houses, and then I got
one property that I couldn'tsell so I ended up renting it
out.
So that was kind of myintroduction to real estate and
I'm super glossing it over.
But to fast forward and I wasintroduced into this world of
not buying properties.
And I was introduced into thisworld of not buying properties
but instead buying mortgages.
So instead of buying the house,I'm just buying the mortgage
which is attached to the house.
(01:31):
The house is acting ascollateral.
So I moved from being thehands-on real estate investor to
the lean investor where I'mjust buying the lean attached to
the property and I love it.
I just think it's so much fun.
It's got a lot more flexibility, it's a lot easier to deal with
.
I don't actually have to swinga hammer like ever.
Ed Mathews (01:50):
So that's nice no toilets to replace, no paint to
spread right.
Nathan Turner (01:54):
Yeah, so that's the very fast version.
I got involved in that in 2009,started buying non-performing
loans where people were notmaking payments in 2010.
It was actually really fun.
It's very dynamic, there'sdifferent things happening all
the time, and so you'reconstantly problem solving,
which was great, but it's achallenge at the same time.
Ed Mathews (02:15):
Without a doubt.
Nathan Turner (02:16):
So then we put together this fund and changed
gears.
We're now buying performingloans excuse me where people are
making regular payments.
They're just, they're fareasier to manage, especially
when I'm borrowing money frominvestors.
Then I know I can manage loansexcuse me where people are
making regular payments.
They're just, they're fareasier to manage, especially
when I'm borrowing money frominvestors.
Then I know I can manageexpectations a lot easier
because I know what to expect.
And then, a couple of years ago, I took over this conference.
Diversified Mortgage Expo 2025will be the 10th anniversary and
(02:38):
the third year that I'm runningit.
Congrats, very excited for that.
Can't wait to have that goingon and it's going to be a good
one, Fantastic.
Ed Mathews (02:45):
So let's talk about the expo first.
Just quick.
So who is your audience there?
Who should attend?
Nathan Turner (02:51):
It's fascinating.
Anytime you're doing any kindof marketing, you should really
target in on who your market is.
It's hard for us to do thatbecause we get anything from
people that are brand new tonotes they heard about it once,
literally.
From people that are brand newto notes they heard about it
once, literally.
We had last year a guy fromUtah.
He had heard about it the weekbefore and, oh, that sounds like
an interesting thing.
So he booked his ticket and offhe came, and so we've got
(03:12):
anywhere, from guys that havebarely heard about this to guys
that are running multimilliondollar funds and everybody in
between, and so it's really aninteresting dynamic.
We do an informal show of handswho's brand new to notes, who's
done a dozen deals, who's done50 deals, who's done this for
years and has a hundred plusloans under their belt and
(03:32):
there's a pretty even spreadacross all those categories.
So it's for anybody who'sinterested or involved in notes
in any way.
We're very heavy on thenetworking where people can just
come together and learn andnetwork, because that's how
deals get done.
It's very much a relationshipbusiness and that's a big deal
in business.
Ed Mathews (03:48):
So let's talk about that a little bit and maybe move
a little bit over towards theearnest investing piece.
So when you're a note investor,can you walk me through the
process of how you identify orfind notes, how you acquire them
, what you have to do to servicethem?
Educate me on that, because I'mone of those newbies that
actually may be at yourconference raising their hand.
(04:09):
I've never done this before.
Nathan Turner (04:11):
Yeah, it's really cool.
So how you find them?
Ed Mathews (04:14):
that's the best kept secret you, me and a handful of
people that may be listening tomy notes, but you won't care.
Nathan Turner (04:19):
It's really.
It really is all about thenetworking.
You're talking to differentpeople.
So I went to my very first noteconference in 2009 and I'm the
Canadian guy, so I was theCanadian note guy and that
helped me to stick out, whichwas fantastic.
That really helped a lot.
And then it's really just aboutgetting to know who the players
are.
Who's got what, becauseeverybody who's in notes is
(04:40):
either buying or selling or both, and so, as you get to know
these people be like hey, youknow what I'm interested in that
.
Would you mind sending medetails on what you've got and
let's see if we can make a deal.
And it's very grassroots.
There's really one there'smaybe two websites out there
where you can actually go andlook for loans that are for sale
.
There's not like a regular MLSthe one that's probably the most
popular that I actually helpedthem my semi claim to fame where
(05:04):
I helped them develop theirprogram at the very beginning,
which was tons of fun and reallygreat guys.
It's called paper stack Okay,so that's paper stack with no K
on the endcom, and it's a greatsite where anybody who has a
note that they want to sell canjust list it and then, of course
they get a fee anytime salegoes through, but other than
that it's just very much a.
(05:25):
If people want to look andbrowse and see what's available
for sale, that's a great placeto go.
They're not all going to begreat deals and that's where
you're going to have to get somekind of education.
You got to get to know whatyou're doing, because just
because you've done real estatedoes not mean you can do now.
It's not the same.
Ed Mathews (05:40):
I've done hundreds and hundreds of physical real
estate deals and I don't knowthing one about buying mortgages
Although I do know that I havebeen bought and sold behind the
scenes and the entity I waspaying six months ago is not the
entity I'm paying today.
Nathan Turner (05:57):
Yeah, and that's exactly what it is.
So that's somebody either alarger entity or somebody it
could be even a smaller guy likeme where they'll come in and
buy the note.
So, instead of now paying BankA, now you're paying LLC me, and
that can very well happen, andso I just step into the role as
bank.
Ed Mathews (06:12):
Okay, so let's say I'm a mortgage broker and I
focus on investors, right?
So I'm a commercial lender andso I have a loan from Ed Mathews
.
It's say mathematic simplicitymillion dollars with a 10 year
maturity.
So why would you want to buythat?
Nathan Turner (06:29):
loan from me, so I want to buy it because I want
the cashflow.
That's really what it comesdown to for me.
At the bank, they're willing tosell it for the same reason,
they would rather have a chunkof cash today instead of
collecting those payments overtime.
I'm in the opposite camp rightnow.
Today, instead of collectingthose payments over time, I'm in
the opposite camp right nowwhere I would rather have those
payments over time, and it bothfor the fund itself, where I can
(06:50):
start collecting these and thenpay investors, and then, of
course, I get paid in themeantime as well.
The whole goal of that wholeoperation is to fund my own
portfolio, so I'm trying tobuild up my own retirement
portfolio so that I've gotenough notes that I'm personally
responsible for, that I'vebought myself that I can write
off in the sunset and my wifeand I can go and travel and do
(07:12):
all those fun things as my kidsare starting to get older and
moving out of the house.
Ed Mathews (07:17):
Yeah, fantastic.
So on that million dollar note,you approach the bank and say,
okay, hey, I want to buy Ed'snote.
How does that work?
Or maybe they pick the phone upand call you and say, hey,
we've got this.
And I know you buy probablymore than one, but let's just
for educational purpose, let'sjust do the million dollar note.
Nathan Turner (07:34):
Yeah, it mostly is whoever is holding the note
and they want to sell it.
That's typically how that goes.
I knock on some doors and makesome calls and say, hey, do you
have anything you're looking tosell?
But more often than not they'rereaching out to whoever the
buyer is going to be.
Okay, and yeah, go ahead.
Then there's all kinds ofdifferent shapes and sizes, so I
concentrate on residentialmortgages, so the types of loan
(07:55):
that I buy.
Typically, the balance is goingto be under 250,000.
So a commercial note for amillion?
Absolutely, those are out thereand you can get those all day.
Ed Mathews (08:03):
What's your version?
Let's do the 250 residential.
Nathan Turner (08:06):
Let's stick to your world so let's say then
let's give a scenario so we'vegot a house worth $250,000.
Let's say they did a $50,000down payment.
So now there's a note for$200,000.
Whoever's holding that note,they call out to me and say, hey
, we just want to cash out, wewant to go and do something else
(08:30):
with this money, and that'sfine.
What are you willing to pay forit?
So I look at that.
One of the very first things I'mlooking at is what's the
interest rate?
Because I'm buying for aspecific yield target.
So if they lent that money outat three or four or 5%, my
discount to get to where I wantto be is going to be huge.
So it's unlikely that sale isever going to happen.
Just because there's going tobe such a big difference in what
(08:52):
I'm willing to pay versus whatthey have for sale.
And it makes sense becauseagain, they're at whatever call
it 5%.
I want to be at 12% In order toget my 12%.
That discount is going to beenormous, so it's probably not
going to go anywhere.
So right now I'm mostly lookingfor seller financed notes.
So that's, somebody owned aproperty, they sold it on terms.
(09:13):
They created a note, probablyat more like eight or nine or
10%, that kind of an interestrate.
That's a lot easier for me toget it to 12.
My discount is going to be alot smaller, much smaller
haircut, and then we canprobably start working on a deal
.
Two major factors are interestrate and time.
How long is that term?
Is it a 10 or a 12 or a 20 or a30?
(09:36):
And that those make a bigdifference.
Ed Mathews (09:39):
Sure Cause.
Yeah, you're figuring yieldover a span of time so you can
be more flexible on a muchlonger term.
No, exactly, Okay.
So that $200,000 mortgage note,just give me a ballpark and it
can be a range even.
What would you potentially be?
Let's say, at 10%, what wouldyou be paying roughly and I know
(09:59):
I'm putting you on the spot,but I'm actually very curious
about the math here Rough orderof magnitude, what would you be
offering?
Give me a range so I don'tcause you any problems with your
negotiation.
Nathan Turner (10:08):
Sure, yeah, and it's a great question and really
what it comes down to.
It's hard to ballpark itbecause I'm not a math genius.
I don't know why they don'tteach us in high school, and
that's my little soapbox is whyare we doing the scientific
calculator?
It makes no sense.
Nobody ever uses that.
Again, why not teach afinancial calculator that
everybody will use all the time?
Anytime you get any loan foranything, which we all do,
(10:32):
wouldn't it be nice to know whatyou're going to be paying for
that loan over time?
It's at the very least.
Ed Mathews (10:37):
So, anyhow, that's there's my answer, so I'm going
to ask you a really dumbquestion then, and I appreciate
the complexities of this, so Iunderstand why you're not
letting me get away with myinitial question.
But that's okay.
But into the calculator wecould come up with a number.
You know, maybe we'll do a sidevideo on that at some point.
I do want to learn that.
So the question is on that$200,000 balance, are you
(10:58):
offering hypothetically $190,000and the bank is taking that, or
$210,000 and you're recoupingyour money back over the course
of time?
That's a good question.
Nathan Turner (11:08):
What's your thinking?
there recouping your money backover the course of time, like,
how does that?
What's your thinking there?
So it will be at some kind of adiscount.
So whether that's 190 or 160,it's somewhere in that range,
and that's going to be againdependent on a few things.
So again, what's that interestrate?
How long is the term?
The longer the term, the easier.
The less of a discount that'sgoing to be, sure, there's.
(11:29):
Where is it located?
Texas is very different thanNew Jersey, and so that that
plays into it as well.
And then what's the underlyingvalue of the property?
That's also a factor.
So there's a lot of things thatgo into it.
But let's just pretend, allthings being equal, it's going
to be some kind of a numberthat's going to get me to 12%
yield, Okay.
So that's really what I'm after.
Ed Mathews (11:49):
So then, that next question then is why would the
bank loan out 200,000 and accept160 to move off of that loan?
What's in it for them?
There's a few things.
Nathan Turner (12:00):
So banks in general, when they're selling
their loans, typically they'reselling large pools off to other
banks, and so they might justbe going par and they're just
looking to recycle their capital.
So they want to get theirliquidity back and then they can
go and lend it out to somethingelse, and just that's the
nature of it.
They might have some fees inthere or something like that,
(12:22):
and that's how they can justifyto their shareholders that, why
they're doing this.
Ed Mathews (12:27):
So they're making their money on the origination
fees and the other fees thatthey're selling off and then
getting back to zero, basically,and then taking that capital
and loaning it out to five otherpeople.
Nathan Turner (12:39):
And that's assuming that all these loans
are performing, where they aremaking payments.
If you go back in time, 10, 15years, where so many of these
mortgages were not makingpayments, that's a different
story.
They were letting those go for30 cents on the dollar because
on their balance sheet ifsomebody's not making payment to
them, it's actually worth zero.
It doesn't matter what thebalance is, it doesn't matter
(12:59):
any of those things, it'sactually worth zero.
So they were willing to sell atsteep discounts for a number of
years where there were justthere were thousands and
thousands of them.
Wow, so that's on the bank,performing non-performing.
On the personal side, ifsomebody just owns a second
property and they sell it onterms and create a note, they
want cash today instead of cashover time.
(13:20):
Sure, so for maybe they gotanother investment, maybe they
want to renovate the kitchen,they want to send a kid to
college, who knows Whatever.
Ed Mathews (13:30):
All kinds of reasons why would they rather have cash
today?
Okay, I know more about notesthan I did when we first started
talking.
Nathan Turner (13:33):
Thank you.
There you go, all right.
Ed Mathews (13:34):
Hopefully everybody else has been taking notes too.
So let's talk about the otherend of it, the investor side.
So, with regard to yourinvestor clients, let's say I'm
an accredited investor, right,and I'm looking to diversify out
of multifamily because cashflowis pretty tight, pretty hard to
find these days.
What is your pitch to a guylike me who's looking for at
(13:58):
least north of the prevailinginflation right?
So four or five, 6% plus.
Nathan Turner (14:04):
Yeah.
So a couple of things.
Number one hopefully you've gotsome money set aside in your
IRA because you're growing ittax-free.
As a Canadian, I don't have onebecause I'm Canadian, but I can
use other people's IRAs andhelp them get some really great
returns.
So that's the first thing,whether it's cash on hand or an
IRA, but think about it.
If it's an IRA, because you'vegot some really great
(14:24):
opportunities there.
What I say is this is your sleepat night money.
We pay an 8% annual return, soit's not the highest thing out
there a multifamily or something.
In theory, it can pay a wholelot more.
And there's a lot ofinvestments that people go into
where it's at least partiallyspeculative, where we're going
to make some money and there'sgoing to be a payout five years
from now or something like that.
(14:45):
Do some of those things becauseyou can get some fantastic
returns.
This, on the other hand, it's alower return, but it is very
secure, where everything we buyis secured by real estate.
We buy at a minimum 25% equityspread.
So if the house is worth 200,I'm not going to pay more than
150 for that because I want tomake sure there's an equity
(15:05):
spread in case of the wholeworld blows up again and
everything drops and values dropand everything else.
Ed Mathews (15:11):
I'm still up 35%.
You're still in the money.
We're still okay.
Nathan Turner (15:15):
So that's why this is such a great investment
at least part of what you've gotthat you want to invest.
Ed Mathews (15:22):
Got it Interesting.
Okay, so definitely aretirement play, which is very
intriguing to me being an olderguy.
Definitely a retirement play,which is very intriguing to me,
being an older guy.
Okay, so, as far as the funditself, is this for accredited
investors only, or cansophisticated investors get
involved, or how do you operatefrom a Regulation D perspective?
Nathan Turner (15:41):
Yeah, we're Reg D 506C, so it's for accredited
investors.
Okay, and man, we debated along time about that, if we
wanted to do one or the other,or maybe even both.
And at the end of the day, I'mstarting to get older as well,
and you know what.
I'm trying to make my lifesimple, so we're trying to keep
everything very simple, and I'mlooking to ride off in the
(16:02):
sunset, so I don't need to loseany more hair.
I don't have much to discuss.
Ed Mathews (16:05):
So it's yeah, and I wholeheartedly agree.
Right, keep it simple.
I met this gentleman a coupleof weeks ago.
I shouldn't mention his name soI won't but the one thing I was
like you have any advice for me?
And he said, don't add steps.
And I'm like, oh my God, that'sfantastic.
Yeah, I love that, cause I amone of those guys that I don't
know, maybe it's I'm insecureabout my intellect or something
(16:27):
but I always try to make it morecomplex than it needs to be,
and so I try really hard not toadd steps and to have that.
That's great.
That's been my mantra for thelast six weeks.
Yeah, I wish I learned it 20years ago.
But Right, yeah, okay.
So in terms of the, let'sswitch to the expo and then
(16:49):
we're going to get into thelightning round.
So, in terms of the expo, ifyou're interested in any way,
shape or form about the notesindustry or how to get into it
or how it works, this isprobably a really good event for
you.
Nathan Turner (16:58):
It is.
We've got somebody fromMortgage Bankers Association
coming give us an update whatthey see coming down the pipe.
This year is a very interestingyear.
We've got all kinds ofannouncements coming out of
Washington that are makingpredictions very difficult, and
so we're all trying to navigatethat and to see where we're
going, and it's making it veryinteresting.
We're keeping a close eye andjust watch and see what's going
(17:21):
to happen, because who knows?
So anyway, we've got peoplecoming to talk about different
kinds of notes and differentways that you can get involved.
We've got a panel with thenewer note investors.
We're calling that one things Ilearned in my first two years
and just getting theirperspective.
What are some of the thingsthat they learned and what are
the things that they didn't knowto expect.
(17:42):
I think that's going to be aninteresting one.
It's all on the website ifpeople want to go check that out
, but we're looking forward toit.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Ed Mathews (17:48):
Excellent.
One other thing that I'mcurious about before we move
into the lightning round, sowith non-performing notes, what
are some of the strategies youuse to get Ed Mathews, who is a
couple months behind on hismortgage, for whatever reason?
What do you do to get Ed backon track?
Nathan Turner (18:05):
First thing we do is just talk and say, okay, so,
ed, what happened, where areyou at and what's going on?
It is incredibly common wheresomebody just lost a job and
they just they're about to starttheir new job but they haven't
gotten paid yet and so they'rejust trying to make ends meet.
I totally get it.
Look, we've all been there.
I totally get that.
We're not interested in almostin every case, I'm not
(18:27):
interested in taking your house.
I actually don't want it.
It's more work, like once I ownthe property, then there's
automatic liability that comeswith that and work that I've got
to put into it and more stufffor me to do.
And I'm again, I'm trying tosimplify, so I'm really
motivated to help you stay there.
So if that means we have toadjust your interest rate or
(18:51):
stretch out the amortization tomake your payments go down and
we've done all of the abovewhere we've raised interest
rates, lowered, stretched outthe amortization, shrunk it down
, payments have gone up or down,whatever works we'll have a
conversation and figure outwhat's going to be the best way
to get you back on track andwhat does that look like?
Now you've got these arrears,what do we do with the arrears?
(19:12):
Do we add that back into thetotal?
Do we forgive part of it?
Do we make that payable for thenext year to your higher
payments for the next 12 monthsto pay off that arrears?
We can do all kinds of stuffand we can just get creative and
see what's going to work.
So we're very motivated to getthat done.
Barring that if the house isvacant, we'll try to find the
(19:33):
person, see if they are able tojust sign the property over and
do cash for keys where they'llsign the property over in
exchange for wiping out the loan.
Worst case scenario we do aforeclosure, which is really
just a matter of time and money.
I've never had it where theforeclosure hasn't gone through.
99% of the time when weforeclose it's on an empty
property and we can't find theborrower.
(19:54):
In that case we'll do theforeclosure because that's
what's left to us.
Ed Mathews (19:58):
And I think what you're saying is really
important, because being a noteinvestor, especially with
non-performing notes, doesn'tmean you're in the business of
making people homeless, right,in fact, just the opposite.
Nathan Turner (20:08):
Yeah, no.
And even you can run throughthe different scenarios and
actually having somebody stay intheir home and then start
making payments again, even ifthat means I'm going to collect
for a little bit and then resellthat loan at some point.
In almost every case that'sactually the most financially
beneficial exit strategy for meanyway.
So I'm extra motivated to havethat happen because not only
(20:31):
does it feel good, but I'llactually make the most money if
I do that.
Ed Mathews (20:34):
Because you converted a non-performing into
a performing note, right, yeah,yeah, so fantastic, all right,
good, all right, time for thelightning round.
So the final five.
Really, I'm trying to get intoyour head a little bit, okay,
sure, I'm curious about whatgets people up out of bed on
Monday morning.
So let's talk about purpose.
What is your purpose?
Nathan Turner (20:54):
Purpose.
I love business.
I really like just the wholeidea of business.
I was actually talking to agroup of grade nine kids this
morning and talking about I wasexplaining macroeconomics.
It's just fun for me.
It's really interesting to seehow it works and why it works
and why we do what we do.
So that's a big one.
And then it's just my ultimategoal right now is, looking
(21:17):
towards retirement, building upwhat I need for me and my wife
to just go and do whatever visitkids, travel other places or
not, or stay at home and lendout cash to somebody else,
whatever.
That's kind of the ultimatething that we're looking forward
to right now.
Awesome.
Ed Mathews (21:33):
I'm always interested in learning about
mentors and how they've affectedyour life, so I'm curious about
the best advice you've evergotten and who gave it to you.
Nathan Turner (21:41):
So you gave this one to me earlier and so I had a
chance to think, so I had lotsof really great advice.
But one of the ones that sticksout to me earlier, and so I had
a chance to think, so I hadlots of really great advice, but
one of the ones that sticks outto me was just, it was a life
thing, it wasn't really abusiness thing, and it was.
I was probably 17, 18 years oldand I was doing a public
speaking thing at church and soI was nervous and not exactly
sure and whatever.
(22:01):
And there was an older guy partof her congregation and it was
after I was done and he waschatting with me.
He said, hey, you did a greatjob, that was really good.
Here's what you do you stand up, you take a deep breath, you
let it out.
If you want to close your eyes,you can do that and then you
just go.
And I was like I like that alot, like that really just
helped.
And I've used that many times,like before I go up on stage,
(22:25):
I'll just take a deep breath,let it out.
Okay, now let's go and you justget to work.
Ed Mathews (22:30):
Yeah, and my I would add to that.
I always find a friendly facesomewhere in the audience or
somebody that's smiling at you,and whenever you start to feel
the beads of sweat forming onyour brow, you go back to that
person and take a breath andjust keep going.
So that's great advice, so I'malways interested in.
I think you learn more fromyour mistakes than you do from
your successes, so I wouldn'tnecessarily change it.
Nathan Turner (22:51):
However, that being said, early on, before I
(23:13):
got into real estate, my wifeand I opened a Curves franchise.
We actually had two of them andit was great.
The problem is it would wreckthe rest of my life.
So it's hard to go back and saythis, but if we had listed
those clubs for sale one yearearlier, we would have cashed
out and had just a big chunk ofmoney.
Instead.
We wrote it until the greatrecession hit and, of course,
when people are nervous aboutfinances, they cancel a gym
(23:33):
membership, yep.
So we wrote it until we endedup carrying a huge amount of
debt that we ended up having topay off over years.
And, like I say, that actuallyturned out to be a blessing in
disguise, because that helped usfigure out how to do that, how
to overcome issues and problemsand how to pay back these big
sums of money that we're nowowing because we didn't list
(23:56):
early on in the process.
But in the end, it turned outto be a good thing.
Ed Mathews (24:01):
Better to sell a year early than a year late.
Yep, got it.
How about how you sharpen yoursaw right?
We're always looking to learn,and so I'm curious about the
book on your nightstand virtualor physical, yeah, and who are
the authors that you're payingattention to these days?
Nathan Turner (24:18):
Interestingly enough, I switch back and forth,
so I've got two books on the goright now.
The one on my nightstand isJames and the Giant Peach by
Roald Dahl, and it was because Igot the whole set from Roald
Dahl last Christmas and I stillhaven't gone through them all
yet.
So I'm reading through those.
So I've done Charlie and theChocolate Factory and the Great
(24:39):
Glass Elevator and the Witchesand all these fantastic books
that I loved when I was a kid,and so that's one of them.
The more kind of serious bookthat the nonfiction that I'm
reading right now is called theDiabetic Code, and that's a
recommendation by a friend ofmine who's a doctor, and because
I went to the doctor recentlyand he said that I'm almost
pre-diabetic, I'm like what me,are you kidding?
(25:01):
So I'm trying to learn a littlebit more about that.
How, trying to learn a littlebit more about that?
How do I make sure that I canlive a nice long life?
Ed Mathews (25:06):
Yeah, that would be wonderful, Sugar bad.
That's where it starts.
Essentially, yeah, all right.
And then, finally, I'm curious,either in your personal life or
professional or both, how youdefine success.
Nathan Turner (25:18):
Hey, yeah, again.
You know that, beginning withthe curves, that was going
downhill so fast and it was veryhard to navigate.
It's the old proverb you getknocked down, you get back up.
It's just, you're gettingknocked down and the ability and
how quickly you get back up andget back to it.
You can take a lump, and that'sfine and it's going to hurt and
(25:38):
you can even nurse it for aminute, but then get back up and
get back to work, and to methat's what that is.
Ed Mathews (25:45):
Excellent, all right , nathan.
So when you're not saving theworld from mortgage notes, what
do you like to do for fun?
Nathan Turner (25:52):
I live just outside of the Rocky Mountains
in Canada, so I'm in themountains as often as I can,
whether that's hiking in thesummer or snowboarding in the
winter.
That's my happy place.
That's where I like to be.
Ed Mathews (26:03):
It's a nice place to be, yeah, and so if somebody
wants to learn about theDiversified Mortgage Expo coming
up again, it's coming up May2nd and 3rd in Nashville, and if
you haven't had the opportunityto walk Broadway, I highly
recommend it because it'sdefinitely worth a Thursday
night prior to, and maybe even aFriday morning prior to, this
(26:24):
event, and the event itself isgoing to be something I'm
probably attending as a newbie.
So if they want to learn aboutthat, what's the best way to get
involved or learn more aboutthat expo?
Nathan Turner (26:34):
So the website diversifiedmortgageexpo.
com is the place to go.
Okay, so the tip is theThursday night.
Included with your ticket is wedo an axe throwing tournament.
So it's just a little bit offof Broadway but anybody who
wants can come and eitherparticipate or just watch and be
in that competition to be theaxe throwing champion of the
(26:54):
year, and it's all aboutnetworking.
So we do that so that peoplecan get together and have a good
fun time together, meetingpeople, so that Friday morning
when the conference starts, youalready know how to price people
.
Beautiful, great, idea.
Ed Mathews (27:08):
And if someone's looking people, so that Friday
morning when the conferencestarts, you already know how to
price people.
Beautiful, great idea.
And if someone's looking tolearn more about earnest
investing.
Nathan Turner (27:16):
What's the best way to learn more about that?
We're very creative on ournames.
Ed Mathews (27:17):
That one's earnestinvesting.
com.
That's pretty much it.
Keep it simple right.
Nathan Turner (27:19):
Yeah, so earnestinvesting.
com.
There's links on both thosesites to each other, so if you
want to go to one or the other,then all the links to the other
one.
That works too.
Ed Mathews (27:27):
All right.
Nathan Turner, thank you somuch for your time today.
I am a lot smarter than I waswhen we first started this
meeting.
Thank you very much, and it'sreally good to see you.
Nathan Turner (27:37):
Good Thanks.
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