March 27, 2025 • 47 mins
Emily Allen transformed her relationship with alcohol while raising her children, and now guides women in creating an exciting next chapter filled with clarity, authentic connections, and true freedom as they transition to their empty nest years.
• Daily wine had become a numbing ritual, especially during COVID lockdowns
• A horrible Christmas morning hangover became the turning point
• Dry January 2021 became the gateway to permanent sobriety
• Sleep quality dramatically improved within weeks of quitting
• "Wine mom culture" normalizes drinking as necessary for stress management
• Moderation attempts create mental gymnastics and decision fatigue
• Social relationships often shift, revealing which connections were alcohol-dependent
• Breaking neural pathways requires creating new evening rituals
• Midlife health risks from alcohol increase significantly, especially breast cancer risk
• Baseline anxiety levels noticeably decrease after sustained sobriety
• Empty nesting provides the perfect opportunity for transformation
• Emily now offers a 12-week group program launching May 12th
Visit livingfreewithemily.com to join the waitlist for Emily's 12-week group program or take her free "alcohol-free personality" quiz.
I would love to hear from you! What did you think of the episode? Share it with me :)
Let's Be Friends
Hang out with Heather on IG @greenpalettekitchen or on FB HERE.
Let's Talk!
Whether you are looking for 1-1 nutrition coaching or kitchen coaching let's have a chat. Click HERE to reach out to Heather.
Did You Love This Episode?
"I love Heather and the Real Food Stories Podcast!" If this is you, please do not hesitate to leave a five-star review on Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everybody and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast.
Before we dive into today'sconversation, I want to take a
moment to acknowledge somethingwe all know but don't always
talk about openly, and that isour drinking.
Alcohol isn't doing us anyfavors.
I think that is pretty clear bynow, especially in midlife.
(00:22):
Alcohol has been a huge focusin the news lately and I believe
that the research is crystalclear Alcohol can negatively
impact our weight, make us moreprone to certain cancers, heart
disease, diabetes, and not tomention our sleep, our hormones,
our metabolism and our overallwell-being.
(00:44):
And yet for so many of us,alcohol has such a strong pull
Whether it's the social aspect,the stress relief we associate
with it or simply the habitletting go of alcohol can feel
really challenging.
So that's why I'm so excitedfor today's guest, because she
(01:04):
has been been there and she'sexperienced that pull firsthand.
So let me introduce you to EmilyAllen.
Emily is a certifiedalcohol-free life coach who
helps women break free from winemom culture as they transition
to their empty nest years, totheir empty nest years.
(01:26):
After transforming her ownrelationship with alcohol while
raising her two children, shenow guides women in creating an
exciting next chapter filledwith clarity, authentic
connections and true freedom.
Her unique approach combinesalcohol-free living with midlife
transformations, helping womenturn this major life transition
into an opportunity for profoundpersonal growth.
So welcome Emily, I'm soexcited to have you today.
Helping Women Turned this MajorLife Transition Into an
(01:46):
Opportunity for ProfoundPersonal Growth.
So welcome Emily, I'm soexcited to have you today.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This is an honor.
Let's just jump into your storyfirst.
I want to hear how you got here, what drinking was like for you
in your quote unquote formerlife, and how did you know that
it was time to stop.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I, um, I've, I started drinking socially I
would call it, you know, backlike it was really.
It was after I was married, butit was more of just a social
way when we go out with othercouples.
And then as we we adopted ourchildren and so I wasn't really
(02:31):
drinking much, then I mean, Istill use it as just like a way
to socialize, a way to you know,have quote unquote fun.
And then, as the yearsprogressed, I noticed that it
was becoming more of a habit,like with other moms, you know,
we would have mom's nights out.
(03:08):
That always involves, you know,wine and food, and then so, and
then, as my kids got older, andthen, especially during COVID,
because I was not going out, andso quote unquote socializing
with others, but I was stillhaving nightly wine.
(03:31):
It was a rare occasion that Ididn't drink at night and it was
just a way for what I startedto recognize.
It was a way for me to justlike numb out, basically.
I mean, I didn't understand itat the time, but that's what I
was doing, just sort of numbingout, especially with all the
stress that was going on, and Ireally got to the point where I
(03:55):
realized there was not a singlenight that I wouldn't do it, and
I knew it was affecting mysleep.
And I knew it was affecting mysleep.
I knew because I and I wouldwake up in the mornings feeling
that hungover, dry mouth,headache, just low energy every
single morning, and I got soused to it that I almost just
(04:19):
thought that was normal.
And then it was Christmas Eve Iguess 2020.
I, you know, stayed upfinishing up wrapping presents,
drinking, and I could justrefill my glass.
Like you know, nobody was thereto count and I wasn't counting,
and so when I woke up Christmasmorning, I just had a horrible
(04:41):
hangover and I'm like this isnot how.
This is not.
What am I doing?
Like, why am I doing this overand over again?
This is not who I want to be.
I know there's so much more, butI was so scared to to try
because it was my securityblanket, so but I did decide.
I was like I'm going to try dryJanuary 2021.
(05:02):
I'm like I'm just going to tryit and I really didn't want to
tell people because I was afraidthat I couldn't do it, but I
did it and I mean we can talkmore about how that went, but
that was the turning point forme was just taking that break
and seeing the different,feeling the differences, and
seeing the differences almostimmediately, I mean within the
(05:24):
first three weeks.
I was definitely aware of howmuch better I felt.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's this like wine, mom culture right, it's mommy's
juice moms need to drink.
I definitely had that too.
I mean there was absolutelythis camaraderie and this just
general overall thinking like,yeah, you definitely need a
glass of wine every single night, like how else are you going to
(05:49):
deal with your young kids?
And knowing in the back of myhead like I know that that's
kind of wrong, but everyone'sdoing it, yes, so I mean it just
makes it so acceptable.
And then it sounds like for you.
Then it turned.
You know, once you had like theCOVID happened and you had it
wasn't really about social life.
(06:11):
You couldn't like say, well,I'm having a mom's night out or
I'm having to.
But then it shifted tosomething else.
Like I need to cope, it's COVID.
I'm sure for you, like all ofus, it was like extremely
stressful.
And and then you had your, yourlight bulb moment right On
Christmas.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I yes, I can relate to that too.
I had, I had one of those days,too, where I woke up extremely
hungover and said I just, I mean, I don't know what it was, my
intuition, my, my higher power,I don't know what it was, my
intuition, my higher power, Idon't know, you know just
something like you can't do thisanymore.
And I knew and at that point forme I was going into, I was
(06:52):
about to step into like emptynesting and stuff, and I knew
that that would be a big mistakeif I were still drinking, that
if I had no kids at home, it wasjust my husband and myself I
just I knew intuitively thatthat was not going to serve me
well.
So I'm almost, you know, in away like looking back and maybe
(07:13):
you too feel like I'm glad forthat experience, that I had that
one night that I had.
That just made me feel likeenough is enough.
How about you?
Did you feel the same?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And I was thinking about whenyou were talking to like with,
with COVID and using it to copeand all of that, and then also
thinking I'm increasing myalcohol use so much, like when
it's over, what am I going to?
Am I now like all of a suddenjust drinking two bottles of
(07:46):
wine a night, like how does thathappen, you know, and how do I
almost like, how do I maintainthat?
Do I don't want to maintainthat?
And also thinking about thefuture, future, me especially as
empty nest is approaching.
At that time my kids were stillat home.
Now I have one in college andone who's in high school, but I
thought, once they're older,gone, yeah, I would just
(08:11):
continue to do this and feellike there's.
No, I don't have to driveanybody anywhere, I don't have
to, you know, go to a earlymorning soccer game so I can be
hung over in the morning.
And who's it going to affect?
Just me?
And thinking even further into,like when I'm potentially a
(08:31):
grandmother who knows, you know,that may happen, it may not,
but I don't want, you know, mykids to think well, we don't
want grandma to take care, helptake care of the kids, because
she couldn't you know she'smight start drinking later that
night, like all of that.
Just sort of those when I wouldwake up at three in the morning
with that surge of adrenalinethat comes after a night of
(08:55):
drinking.
Sometimes those thoughts wouldpop into my mind and then you
just think, oh my gosh, this hasgot to stop.
But then five o'clock comesaround and you just pick it up
again, pick up the glass againand keep going.
So yeah, once I, once I gotthrough that first day, honestly
the first, that first full day,january 1st.
(09:17):
I I mean I was hung over againbecause, because New Year's Eve,
I was like this might, thismight, who knows, this might be
the last hurrah, yeah, yeah,exactly.
It's like, let's finish off allof the wine in the house, um.
So I probably felt bad enoughon that day that it was okay.
So we'll say, maybe like thesecond day of january when I was
(09:38):
like this is it?
I'm fully like, don't have.
I mean, I still obviously hadthe effects of alcohol in my
system.
But that day of just gettingthrough it, getting through
dinner time especially, was mytrigger time because I would,
you know, when I was cookingdinner I would oh, that's when I
would start drinking for theevening, Like I would start when
(10:02):
I started making dinner.
Such a routine, such a habitthat I was thinking how am I
going to do this?
And I just did it with I stilluse my exact same like stimulus
wine glass that I would use, butI put in LaCroix and I had
orange slices.
You know just whatever I coulddo to still feel like that had
(10:22):
that ritual.
But get through that day.
And once I got through that day, it just gave me that hope of
like I can do, I can possibly dothis Like, and I started
feeling better by day seven.
I mean it took a little while.
Sleep was rough those first fewnights Cause I was used to
having enough alcohol in mysystem that I could just, you
know, basically lay down, fallasleep.
(10:43):
So once the alcohol was out,then my whole my body was trying
to learn how to fall asleep onits own.
So that was a little rough atfirst, a little unexpected, but
then, once I got through that,then sleep was like glorious,
Like the best thing I ever had.
I would wake up feeling likeamazing.
(11:04):
I was like, oh, this is how I'msupposed to feel.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
This is how you're supposed to sleep, right, and
you wake up feeling yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, and so that was just amazing.
So that just encouraged me tokeep going to see.
I knew that there were otherpositive effects that might take
longer to show up, but thatjust gave me that push, that,
yeah, you are doing this andthis is what you're supposed to
be doing, and even though it's,it wasn't super duper easy peasy
(11:32):
, but it was.
I knew I could do it Januarytoo.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But my mindset was very different, because I was in
a mindset of I'm going to haveto tough out 30 days or 31 days,
I guess.
And and then I'm you know, Icannot wait for February 1st,
right, like I can't like justget me through it.
Like I was like, you know, likegripping, and I think the two
(12:02):
times I had tried it I don'teven think I made it, because
then my birthday is in January.
And then there's something else, you know, like the Super Bowl
was something like there'salways something to to divert me
.
So when I stopped and I said tomyself it wasn't, it wasn't
January, it was a random day inMay, so it was.
(12:24):
But I said I'm going to go 30days and my mindset felt very
different.
Then I just felt like I hadmaybe more of like a why behind
it, like why.
I mean that was the difference.
So when you stopped for youknow, because a lot of people do
dry January and then eitherprobably like me, like don't
(12:45):
make it, and you know, likethings it's like any resolution,
things just fade away or theymake it and then they stop.
They start drinking again.
So what was the difference foryou that got you past like day
31?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
in.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
January.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I think I kind of used dry January as like my
cover, because so many people doit like you say, and so it was
a way that I could just say I'mdoing dry January.
In my mind, I knew I wanted toquit forever.
I knew I needed to quit but Iwas, so I was terrified that I
really wouldn't be able to do it.
(13:23):
And then what does that sayabout me?
I'm like what does that mean ifI can't make it 31 days or even
two weeks?
So I used it to protect myselfand that I could tell people
that without feeling any kind ofweirdness, because there's
always this judgment I don'tknow if it's just a perceived
(13:46):
judgment or if there is literaljudgment but you feel like, if
you are taking a break, thatthere's something quote unquote
like wrong with you, that youcan't handle alcohol.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, you have a problem.
You have a problem, right.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, so I had.
You know, I felt that in me atthe time.
You know now I've completelybeen able to release all of that
, which is amazing, but at thetime that's where I was.
So I knew I wanted to quit.
I knew I wanted that to be theend.
And getting myself through thatmonth I feel like that by the
(14:25):
end of January I knew there wasno going back for me and I knew
moderation was never going towork for me.
I had tried to semi moderate,not in the terms of not drinking
on certain days, but just notdrinking as much on certain days
, like oh, during the week I'llonly have one glass, and just
(14:47):
that whole mental gymnastics.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, there's always an excuse, right?
I mean moderation, I think, isthe most fusing word in the
English language, because I meaneven when it comes to food, you
know, like everything inmoderation.
But what on earth doesmoderation mean?
I did the same thing.
I mean even when it comes tofood, you know, right, like
everything in moderation.
But what on earth doesmoderation mean?
I did the same thing.
I mean I said a hundred timesyou know, I'm only going to
drink on the weekends, I'm onlygoing to maybe on like a Tuesday
(15:11):
if I go with friends and aSaturday.
But then what happens?
If it's Wednesday and friendswant to go out, then do I not
drink on that Wednesday, do I?
I mean, I think you know I callit decision fatigue.
You probably have heard of that.
I mean there's just, you know,like try.
So I think when I then quit Iwas like it is just a no, it's a
(15:33):
no, and that just felt so mucheasier for me than to try to
figure out moderation.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Totally.
Yeah, it's the weight off ofyour shoulders.
Yeah, your no means no.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's just a no.
I mean just like, let's not tryto like right, I'll only have
two drinks on Friday.
I don't know it, just thatnever worked for me.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So yeah, Cause there's always the somebody else
you know just tops off yourglass, and all of a sudden, now
it's two and a half.
And then, well, why am I?
Why not just have?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
four Right, right, yeah.
So that got yeah.
So I think moderation I meansome people can do moderation,
but I think for the rest of usthat if you're really serious
about losing alcohol in yourlife, I think moderation is much
(16:27):
harder, I think, than juststopping it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I agree Totally so much harder because, yeah,
trying to keep track andbargaining with yourself and
then you inevitably let yourselfdown and that feeling is icky
and that's what I was feelingover and over, I was always
letting myself down and I feellike that's how moderation can
get eventually for people whoare trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But yeah, yeah, yes, I know, and I think so.
When I stopped drinking forgood, I think that was a big
driver for me, as I didn't wantto let myself down.
I was this felt too importantto me and I wanted to keep going
.
And I made it to like my, youknow, I kind of did increments
of 30 days and like I couldn'tbelieve I did 30 days and like
(17:16):
you know, and then I was like,let me challenge myself to do
another 30 days.
And when I got to day 60, I wasastounded.
I hadn't gone 60 days in years,you know.
And then it just like keptgoing.
And then I could, you know, andthen all of a sudden it's a
year now, it's almost sevenyears in May, in May for me, and
(17:42):
and I, you know, and I'm, youknow, I'm sure, same for you,
that probably was the samefeeling like wow, like you know,
all of a sudden here it is acouple of months and a year,
then two years, and and it's,and it's a really nice feeling.
Yeah, but you, but along the way, there's a lot of things you
mentioned a couple of thingslike the judgment from people
and the fear of that, and Idefinitely felt so much of that
(18:06):
too.
I mean there's you know, Ithink in the end you will.
You might lose friends, youmight your friendships shift.
Yeah right, because thosepeople that you are, that you
know, you realize, the peoplethat you bonded with through
alcohol or wine, you know thatonce you stop, that might make
(18:30):
them uncomfortable or they don'tknow how to relate to you
without having a glass of winein your hand and did you feel
like that happened with you?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
yeah, and I was.
That was probably what I was.
That was up there in my levelof things that I was nervous
about, um, and COVID kind ofprotected me too because I
wasn't going out and in 2021,you know, things were kind of
slowly starting but at the timeso that also gave me this little
cover blanket of not being outwith a friend and then mean
(19:03):
being all of a sudden notordering wine, but eventually it
did.
You know, all those experiencesdid happen, but I kind of had
some time under my belt and felta lot more confident in myself.
So I mean, I think, for anybodywho's thinking about it and is
nervous about that, I mean youcan always sort of find ways to
not necessarily go out at firstif you feel like that's going to
(19:24):
be the thing that's going tohold you back.
I mean there's ways to get outof it.
The first time, ordering like aclub soda and lime or something
you know, at a restaurant that'sa nice restaurant that has a
(19:45):
beautiful wine list and, youknow, beautiful bar and all that
it did it felt strange.
But then once it arrived and Iwas drinking that I felt so
empowered.
It's like here I am, I'm goingto feel great tomorrow morning
and I just kind of got throughthat first hurdle and and it
(20:07):
felt amazing.
And so after that kind of justgetting through that first
encounter, it's been, it's not.
It doesn't bother me at allanymore, and I do know that it
probably I don't.
Well, I don't say no, but Ifeel like if I'm with other
people who are all drinking, itmight feel awkward to them that
I'm not, but I don't careanymore.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, I don't care anymore either.
But I know that when I firstwas out socializing with people
that I was so afraid of thembeing uncomfortable with my not
drinking yes, which sounds sosilly now, but but back that,
(20:45):
that's just how I was like oh, Idon't want them to feel
uncomfortable, I'm not going tobe drinking a glass of wine.
I'm really happy that I didn'tever cave into that.
You know and and I thinksometimes you right so you do
have have to maybe shift yoursocializing a little bit.
I mean, even still now.
I mean a lot of times I'll just, rather than meet friends out
(21:08):
at a bar for their glasses ofwine, I'll meet for coffee, or
I'll meet for breakfast, or justsomething different like that.
Do you feel like that?
You kind of shifted yoursocializing?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
yeah, totally and and I'm just, it shows too how much
you can get to know somebody somuch better when you are, yeah,
like having breakfast, havingcoffee, going for a walk, versus
it being, yeah, like you knowthe scene at the bar ordering
the glasses, talking about thewine.
You know like, you know thescene at the bar ordering the
(21:42):
glasses talking about the wine.
You know just it all sort ofrevolved around that so surface
level, and then after a certainamount of time you're just
repeating yourself too.
You know, once everybody's beendrinking for a couple hours,
nobody's really listening toeach other, it's just you know
Exactly listening to each other.
(22:03):
It's just you know exactly.
So that has changed.
And then now when I do spendtime with friends, I feel like
I'm actually getting to knowthem and talking about real
things and and that has been ahuge in the meeting new people
to like, I've tried to be inplaces where there are more
people that might notnecessarily be sober but just
kind of just it's secondary ortertiary, like they don't even
(22:26):
really care about it that much,and so that's been amazing to
just opening myself up to newfriendships and new
relationships that are based offof just wanting to get to know
each other.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So, absolutely, I mean, that is something I've
I've wanted to do too is to seekout people who were, like
alcohol is not the main focusand that it's not the main
activity.
That we're doing because Icertainly was doing that and I
want to have real conversationsand real friendships and, like I
(23:02):
said before, I mean I some ofmy my relationships with some
friends really shifted a lot.
I've lost a couple of like Iwas like can you not relate to
me if?
I don't have a glass of wine inmy hand.
But it's okay, it's all right,because I would rather be who
(23:28):
you know here and have and makenew friends and have you know
real deep friendships than haveit be surface level.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, would be surface level, yeah, yeah, and I
think it the way that it's gotto just be some kind of
reflection back on them.
Not, you know, it's not usputting out the vibe that we
don't want to hang out with youif you still drink, because it's
something that's coming in fromthem, inside of them, that they
just don't want to see, don'twant to, don't want to go there
(23:59):
in their own mind.
And so, yeah, it's not the bestfeeling when that happens, but
then in the end I think it's theonly way it's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think it's sometimes other women.
I mean it kind of forces themto look at them.
They're drinking.
I mean I know that when I wasdrinking and there was the one
person who was not drinking, I'mlike you're no fun and I don't
want you to look at me while I'mdrinking or like or judge me.
You know for what I'm doing andI'm not.
(24:33):
I don't you do you like?
You drink as much as you.
I'm not judging anybody fortheir, for their drinking.
I'm just focused on me.
You know and and what I'm, whatI'm doing.
But yeah, I think that that'sit.
It forces, not forces it.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It, I think, nudges people to look at their own
drinking yeah, if they yeah, ifthat's something that they're
already kind of struggling with,then it is.
It just becomes like a mirroronto them that it's not our you
know, again, again, we're notdoing it on purpose, we're not
out here judging them, but it'sinevitable, I think, with some
(25:09):
people, based on what theirrelationship is at the time with
alcohol.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, and you mentioned something about the
habits before, about the linkbetween you know you would start
cooking in the evenings, andthen that when you'd pour a
glass of wine, and I think forme that was one of the biggest
eye openers, that I had notconnected this relationship
between like my habits, like myjust my day to day activities
(25:36):
and and like pouring a glass ofwine, and I was eye-opening for
me.
I couldn't believe it, thatlike you do it on autopilot.
Sometimes it's five o'clock,it's Friday and I, you know I,
it was just like automatic,without thought, yeah, the glass
out of the cabinet, you saidyou're, you're a stemless wine
(25:58):
glass, you're like all of thoselittle subtle things, what you
know.
And then, and then, if it'sright, you start cooking, if
you're having a bad day, it'sfriday, happy hour, it's, I mean
right, the links between all ofthese, and so I, it's, I get
why it is so difficult sometimesto stop, yeah, or to think
(26:22):
about stopping, because you havea lot invested in your habits
with it, and so that really, Ihad to really like unravel, like
a lot of that, those kind ofhabits, and replace it.
Did you find this too, that likeI had to like find other things
to put in its place, or evenlike create a mocktail, or you
(26:45):
know.
Like you know, make, get mywine glass out and then like,
but make like a, something likepretty in it and alcohol free
and and, but just other thingslike Friday happy hour.
I had, you know, I think I knowat the beginning I found like a
yoga class that was at likefive o'clock on Fridays and that
was my.
That turned into my happy hourfor a little while love that
(27:07):
yeah yeah, what about you?
do you feel like you had to liketo kind of disconnect these
like unlink these like habitsfrom your wine?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
yes, totally, and the more once I started kind of
learning about it too.
It's like you really do buildnew neural pathways I mean those
neural pathways that were there, that were such the the habit
of five o'clock starting dinnerwine to let those pathways go
away and build these new ones.
(27:39):
That was what I really focusedon, probably for the first six
months, because once I knew whatI was doing, it was empowering
to know that that is actuallywhat I was doing.
So, yeah, with the glass andthe mocktail, I mean, I probably
I felt like I spent more moneyon mocktails at the beginning
than I used to on wine, becausesome of them are expensive.
I love those curious elixirs Idon't know if you've tried those
(28:03):
brand.
They're so good but they're alittle pricey.
So, but then eventually I gotto where I didn't have to have
the mocktail anymore and justanything was fine.
But I gave myself all the gracein the world during those first
times doing that.
So that was the one and then Iwould.
My like habit routine was tostay in the kitchen after dinner
(28:25):
, you know, cleaning up or andthen like scrolling, you know,
on the internet and stilldrinking.
So I knew I got to get my buttout of the kitchen once, once
dinner was over.
So I kind of went to a newlocation, like I'd go to the LA,
sit up on my bed, watch TV andhave hot tea.
So that became like my newevening ritual and I just did
(28:52):
that over and over and overagain until that's what my body
craved and that's what I wanted,because the cravings too I'm
I'm sure you probably had thethose cravings that would hit
and then just learning how toride it out, knowing that it
would go away.
But having those new rituals inplace, then those would, they
just disappeared.
(29:12):
I mean, I never thought that Icould at originally, like I
didn't think I would ever beable to not think about wine
when I was cooking dinner.
And you know, I mean I justmade dinner last night, didn't
even?
I don't even think I had waterout.
I probably should have had somewater.
But you know it just it, justit all went away.
It just shows how our brainscan change and heal and that's
(29:34):
so encouraging to knowing we canchange all of that.
So, and I love the I've there'sa six o'clock yoga class now
that I've on fridays that I'vekind of started going to.
I didn't have that back then,but it's.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's great to find those things to do instead yeah,
yeah, I definitely, I almostlike I I have to like maybe find
my old list somewhere, but Iremember making a list of, like
just you know, kind ofbrainstorming, a list of all the
things that I could do in itsplace when I had those.
You know, like thoseconnections, yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I think that makes thedifference between, like you
(30:20):
know, knowing that you're havinga craving and that cravings are
temporary.
You know, like cravings will,you can behind it, that you want
to, right, just know that thosecravings dissipate and that
you're replacing them.
Like you know, you had yourevening tea every night.
It sounds like you went up toyour bedroom, right?
(30:53):
So you're like away from yourkitchen, like away from, like
the trigger room, right?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I mean, this is no different really than food.
You you know like we're talkingabout, like weight loss and
food and stuff.
So that's you know?
yeah, really good, justreminders.
So you focus on women inmidlife and empty nesting.
Is there, did you get?
I know that you're?
This is your story too rightthat you're that you're in mid
your story too right that you'rethat you're a in midlife and
(31:22):
empty nesting, or about to be anempty nester, I mean in a year?
Um, do you find that this agegroup is different in some way?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
yeah, I feel like it's such a great opportunity
for for change, for potential,because everything is really
about the change.
I mean everything that we'vespent the last 20 years doing,
or more.
If you have more than one child, then it could span even longer
than that amount of time.
So once they start, they'rekind of leaving and starting
(31:59):
their life, and I can see howthere can be that feeling of
well, now, what about me?
This was my goal was to get youto launch, but I didn't really
spend a.
I feel like it's just thisamazing opportunity to find out
(32:22):
what you really like to dorediscover, especially once
getting the alcohol out of thepicture, like I was able to
rediscover things that I just,you know, forgot about.
That I didn't that I probablylike that.
I liked back for when I was inmy 20s and then just let it go
away.
Back for when I was in my 20sand then just let it go away,
(32:45):
and then being able to also see,like, the health benefits that
can come from it.
I mean, when you're in your 20sdrinking, 30s drinking yeah,
you're not going to feel greatall the time, but it's
definitely hits a littledifferent once you've, you know,
passed into that middle agemark.
I mean, even just the way thatwe metabolize especially women
metabolize alcohol changes oncewe've gone through menopause,
and so it's all just affectingus differently too.
(33:07):
So I feel like it's just a greattime to just let it go, or at
least try letting it go, and seehow you feel, and see what
comes up and what you canimagine for yourself now.
Yeah, because I mean duringthis time, like I've started a
whole new career, you know.
So it's just something that Inever.
If I was still stuck in thekitchen drinking every night,
(33:31):
that's what I would still bedoing, you know tonight.
So, with getting it out is whatit's just changed, and, and you
know, you kind of feel a littlebit of that liberation too,
once your kids are growing up, Imean, it's they're doing their
thing and they don't need youfor all the things anymore, and
so it gives you that sense ofokay, now it's my time to really
(33:53):
focus on me.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying
and and I think that's it issuch a good opportunity to
consider maybe losing the one.
You know our wine habits andeverything.
But I feel like there's also,like I had said before, like I
knew like there was, that it wasalmost like a crossroads, like
I could have stayed drinking andsaid like, oh phew, we finally
(34:19):
made it, my kids are out of thehouse.
They're living on their own, youknow, and that's what's
happening and and you know.
So let's celebrate every nightand let's, you know, like you
know, let's let's open up a newbottle of wine, because without
my kids at home and like them,like sort of watching over, you
know, or seeing what I was doing, I could have seen myself going
(34:41):
down a more, a bigger road.
And I mean, you know, the thingis, I don't know if you've like
read statistics, but drinkingin midlife is definitely, and I
probably, from COVID on, reallywent gangbusters, I mean.
So, like, I mean heavy drinkingwith women in midlife, yeah,
(35:04):
and it's not great, I mean it'snot, it's like a.
The statistics are really kindof alarming and yeah, and then
throw in you know all the likehealth issues, midlife menopause
, your incidents for heartdisease, strokes, cancers, I
mean it all boom like goes wayup at this point.
(35:25):
So the connection betweenalcohol and health issues is
huge.
And then not being able tometabolize alcohol like we used
to, yes, so it is a great timeto consider losing alcohol from
your life, but sometimes, youknow, I could see I just have
(35:45):
some people, I know that like, Imean it's very ingrained in
them.
I mean don't talk to them about, like, stopping drinking, like
it's not going to happen.
I mean maybe it will, but a bigpart of their lives.
But everyone's different right.
I mean everyone does things ontheir own, their own terms.
Tell me you know just what haveyou seen from women in midlife
(36:10):
empty nesting.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I mean, have you seen , like, really, that pops up the
most, you know, and just oh, Icould not necessarily starting
their own business, but orstarting or if they're, you know
, had artistic aspirationsbefore, like that coming back,
like creativity, I would say, issort of the what kind of is the
(36:48):
underlying characteristic andall of the things that pop up is
that your creativity surges andyou can actually start to delve
into it more.
So, yeah, I think that would bethe biggest, the biggest thing.
And then energy.
You know, that is somethingthat I think we just assume as
(37:11):
we get older, that we're goingto have less and less energy,
but I try drinking and yes,right I mean right.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean mean at least like right taking away that like
sedative.
It is gonna absolutely likebenefit your energy.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah and so then you've got, you know, somebody's
a traveler like all of a sudden, now that's just easier, more
enjoyable and yeah, andeverything with the whole cancer
thing is that really surprisedme, seeing the statistics with
that, especially breast cancer,you know something that we know.
(37:49):
Obviously that's something that,for women, is one of probably
always in the back of most ofour heads is you know, whether
you have a family history or not, and once I saw how much you
know even one drink a daygreatly increases your risk for
breast cancer and I was likewhat it's like?
It's just all of these, thethings that I thought I was
(38:10):
doing to be so healthy in everyother way of my life, but then
drinking every night, which justcompletely, you know, not only
canceled it out but alsocanceled out the good things I
was doing, and then it wasincreasing my risk too.
So I think you know I know wecan't completely control whether
(38:32):
or not it's going to happen tous, but feeling like you've got
a little bit, a teeny bit ofcontrol in that regard, like
just taking this out, will help,will not increase my risk
anymore.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So yes, absolutely yeah, and that's kind of a good
feeling that at least you mightknow that you're not
contributing or eating andabetting you know more risk and
I think some other things I meanjust to.
I don't know when you stopdrinking.
Some other things I mean justto.
I don't know when you stopdrinking, just the clarity you
(39:02):
have in your head.
I mean it's not that life turnslike all of a sudden into like
a miraculous, like bed of rosesevery single day, but it the
peace of mind I know that I have, it just is outweighs anything.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, it outweighs that like urge to go and like
start drinking again and oh yeah, no yeah, and I don't know if
you, I had just I didn't realizethe um kind of level of anxiety
that I had.
That was just sort of abaseline like jitteriness
feeling.
I thought that was because Ihad kids and I had this, and
(39:40):
then taking it once the alcoholgot out after that was probably
one of the things I reallynoticed.
After about a full month ofbeing alcohol free, I was like I
don't feel this racing of myheart anymore when I'm just, you
know, doing nothing, whereasbefore I always just felt this
low lying level of anxiety andthat's gone away.
(40:02):
I mean, I can still be anxious,I can be anxious about things,
it's not like I can't be, butit's not just constant low-grade
anxiety.
That was a huge eye-openingthing for me.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I mean all that alcohol and all that disrupted
sleep gives you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I mean that's right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
So at least, if you're going to have anxiety,
have it with a clear head Rightand not because of you know too
many glasses of wine the nightbefore, because I know I find
nothing worse than that feeling.
Oh yeah, it's called anxiety.
Ready to hang over with anxiety?
Yes, yeah, the worstcombination yeah the worst.
(40:42):
So any other takeaways do youthink, for women I mean?
I think, like we said, I thinkthis is midlife and just this
empty nest time is such a goodtime to consider if you're
considering it going alcoholfree.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, and so I would.
I know it can feel scary, rightCause we both sort of talked
about that and you think aboutyour social connections and just
your traditions, even and Ijust want to encourage anybody
that you can work through those,like those things eventually
(41:23):
become completely forgotten,like you don't worry about the
social part anymore.
You don't worry about you know,if you're going on your
vacation, your family vacation,where you would always have
drinks with your family orwhatever, like that part of it
goes away quickly.
So I just don't want anybody tofeel like that's what's holding
(41:44):
them back or and also like thestigma of, oh, I'm reevaluating
my relationship with alcohol.
What are people going to think?
I mean, in that thing, you dohave to work through it, which
we also discussed.
It is, it's a real feeling, butit's so worth it.
On the other side, it's likeimpossible to describe sometimes
(42:05):
how worth it is.
So so I just the things thatthat people have in their mind
that's holding them back.
I just encourage them to towork through those to understand
that it's normal to have thosefeelings, but they will all be
gone once you've made it throughto the other side.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, no, I mean, I know that I struggle.
I mean I feel like I almostlike still struggle a tiny every
once in a while.
I think it's just a very oldhabit that I'm like, oh, a
holiday's coming, oh yeah.
Yeah, you know, I have familymembers who still, you know,
(42:52):
alcohol is very central to theholiday, and it's just a habit.
It's not that I'm going to goand drink, but it's just that
initial, like initial, likeeveryone else is drinking, but I
but I think the new habit forme, though, is to consider what
I'm going to be feeling like thenext day.
I'm going to be getting up onthe next morning and going to
the gym, and you are not,because you are going to be very
(43:16):
hungover and feeling miserable,and I mean, yeah.
So I think that's another goodthing to think about, just like
just those triggers that youthink I can never like.
There's no way I can survive aholiday without alcohol.
There's no way it's my birthday.
I can't do that unless I, likeI'm drinking champagne.
You absolutely can, exactly,you can, and you can do it and
(43:43):
actually have fun.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, getting through all those first year things was
so.
You know, once you, once youdid everything the first
Christmas, your first birthday,all of that.
Once you get it behind you,once you're like, well, I can do
it again, absolutely you know,you might be an example to
somebody else too in your familyand encourage her.
You know too.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yes, yeah.
Well, Emily, this was such agreat talk I'm so happy to
always meet other people whohave a similar story as me and
and tell me what you do withclients, how you work with them
and where they can find you.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, so I my Instagram handle and my is
living free with Emily, and thenmy website is living free with
emilycom and I am about tolaunch a 12 week group program.
I feel like group programs aresuper helpful because you are
able to connect with other womenthat are at the same stage as
(44:45):
you.
So we'll move through whatmodules?
With some live videos, livegroup calls and then the Slack
community to be able to supporteach other through that 12-week
period.
So that's launching May 12thand you can get on the wait list
on my website.
And I also have a free quizthat's called what's your
(45:06):
alcohol empowered, alcohol freepersonality.
So just a fun quiz to kind ofshow you what your, if you were
alcohol free, what was yourpersonality reflects that
alcohol free empowerment of it.
Yeah, it's fun.
So that's on my website too.
And yeah, so I'm excited toworking in the group format with
(45:27):
with women.
I just I love the opportunityto build that connection and
that community.
That's really what I'm drawn to.
So so, yeah, that's the that'swhere I am and that's what I'm
doing.
So, yeah, that's where I am andthat's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I think that sounds great, because quitting alcohol
can feel very lonely and I thinkcommunity around it is really
everything, and I think so whenyou have other women who are
going through the same thingwith you, it's hugely impactful
and I think it helps with yourcommitment to staying alcohol
(46:05):
free.
So, that's fantastic.
So May 12th?
Okay, well, those links will bein my show notes and everyone
can reach out there.
And, emily, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you tellingyour story and look forward to
seeing what you do.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thank you for sharing yours too.
I love having theseconversations with fellow
alcohol-free people.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, me too.
Okay, thank you Thanks.
Hi everybody and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast.
Before we dive into today'sconversation, I want to take a
moment to acknowledge somethingwe all know but don't always
talk about openly, and that isour drinking.
Alcohol isn't doing us anyfavors.
I think that is pretty clear bynow, especially in midlife.
(00:22):
Alcohol has been a huge focusin the news lately and I believe
that the research is crystalclear Alcohol can negatively
impact our weight, make us moreprone to certain cancers, heart
disease, diabetes, and not tomention our sleep, our hormones,
our metabolism and our overallwell-being.
(00:44):
And yet for so many of us,alcohol has such a strong pull
Whether it's the social aspect,the stress relief we associate
with it or simply the habitletting go of alcohol can feel
really challenging.
So that's why I'm so excitedfor today's guest, because she
(01:04):
has been been there and she'sexperienced that pull firsthand.
So let me introduce you to EmilyAllen.
Emily is a certifiedalcohol-free life coach who
helps women break free from winemom culture as they transition
to their empty nest years, totheir empty nest years.
(01:26):
After transforming her ownrelationship with alcohol while
raising her two children, shenow guides women in creating an
exciting next chapter filledwith clarity, authentic
connections and true freedom.
Her unique approach combinesalcohol-free living with midlife
transformations, helping womenturn this major life transition
into an opportunity for profoundpersonal growth.
So welcome Emily, I'm soexcited to have you today.
Helping Women Turned this MajorLife Transition Into an
(01:46):
Opportunity for ProfoundPersonal Growth.
So welcome Emily, I'm soexcited to have you today.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This is an honor.
Let's just jump into your storyfirst.
I want to hear how you got here, what drinking was like for you
in your quote unquote formerlife, and how did you know that
it was time to stop.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I, um, I've, I started drinking socially I
would call it, you know, backlike it was really.
It was after I was married, butit was more of just a social
way when we go out with othercouples.
And then as we we adopted ourchildren and so I wasn't really
(02:31):
drinking much, then I mean, Istill use it as just like a way
to socialize, a way to you know,have quote unquote fun.
And then, as the yearsprogressed, I noticed that it
was becoming more of a habit,like with other moms, you know,
we would have mom's nights out.
(03:08):
That always involves, you know,wine and food, and then so, and
then, as my kids got older, andthen, especially during COVID,
because I was not going out, andso quote unquote socializing
with others, but I was stillhaving nightly wine.
(03:31):
It was a rare occasion that Ididn't drink at night and it was
just a way for what I startedto recognize.
It was a way for me to justlike numb out, basically.
I mean, I didn't understand itat the time, but that's what I
was doing, just sort of numbingout, especially with all the
stress that was going on, and Ireally got to the point where I
(03:55):
realized there was not a singlenight that I wouldn't do it, and
I knew it was affecting mysleep.
And I knew it was affecting mysleep.
I knew because I and I wouldwake up in the mornings feeling
that hungover, dry mouth,headache, just low energy every
single morning, and I got soused to it that I almost just
(04:19):
thought that was normal.
And then it was Christmas Eve Iguess 2020.
I, you know, stayed upfinishing up wrapping presents,
drinking, and I could justrefill my glass.
Like you know, nobody was thereto count and I wasn't counting,
and so when I woke up Christmasmorning, I just had a horrible
(04:41):
hangover and I'm like this isnot how.
This is not.
What am I doing?
Like, why am I doing this overand over again?
This is not who I want to be.
I know there's so much more, butI was so scared to to try
because it was my securityblanket, so but I did decide.
I was like I'm going to try dryJanuary 2021.
(05:02):
I'm like I'm just going to tryit and I really didn't want to
tell people because I was afraidthat I couldn't do it, but I
did it and I mean we can talkmore about how that went, but
that was the turning point forme was just taking that break
and seeing the different,feeling the differences, and
seeing the differences almostimmediately, I mean within the
(05:24):
first three weeks.
I was definitely aware of howmuch better I felt.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's this like wine, mom culture right, it's mommy's
juice moms need to drink.
I definitely had that too.
I mean there was absolutelythis camaraderie and this just
general overall thinking like,yeah, you definitely need a
glass of wine every single night, like how else are you going to
(05:49):
deal with your young kids?
And knowing in the back of myhead like I know that that's
kind of wrong, but everyone'sdoing it, yes, so I mean it just
makes it so acceptable.
And then it sounds like for you.
Then it turned.
You know, once you had like theCOVID happened and you had it
wasn't really about social life.
(06:11):
You couldn't like say, well,I'm having a mom's night out or
I'm having to.
But then it shifted tosomething else.
Like I need to cope, it's COVID.
I'm sure for you, like all ofus, it was like extremely
stressful.
And and then you had your, yourlight bulb moment right On
Christmas.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I yes, I can relate to that too.
I had, I had one of those days,too, where I woke up extremely
hungover and said I just, I mean, I don't know what it was, my
intuition, my, my higher power,I don't know what it was, my
intuition, my higher power, Idon't know, you know just
something like you can't do thisanymore.
And I knew and at that point forme I was going into, I was
(06:52):
about to step into like emptynesting and stuff, and I knew
that that would be a big mistakeif I were still drinking, that
if I had no kids at home, it wasjust my husband and myself I
just I knew intuitively thatthat was not going to serve me
well.
So I'm almost, you know, in away like looking back and maybe
(07:13):
you too feel like I'm glad forthat experience, that I had that
one night that I had.
That just made me feel likeenough is enough.
How about you?
Did you feel the same?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And I was thinking about whenyou were talking to like with,
with COVID and using it to copeand all of that, and then also
thinking I'm increasing myalcohol use so much, like when
it's over, what am I going to?
Am I now like all of a suddenjust drinking two bottles of
(07:46):
wine a night, like how does thathappen, you know, and how do I
almost like, how do I maintainthat?
Do I don't want to maintainthat?
And also thinking about thefuture, future, me especially as
empty nest is approaching.
At that time my kids were stillat home.
Now I have one in college andone who's in high school, but I
thought, once they're older,gone, yeah, I would just
(08:11):
continue to do this and feellike there's.
No, I don't have to driveanybody anywhere, I don't have
to, you know, go to a earlymorning soccer game so I can be
hung over in the morning.
And who's it going to affect?
Just me?
And thinking even further into,like when I'm potentially a
(08:31):
grandmother who knows, you know,that may happen, it may not,
but I don't want, you know, mykids to think well, we don't
want grandma to take care, helptake care of the kids, because
she couldn't you know she'smight start drinking later that
night, like all of that.
Just sort of those when I wouldwake up at three in the morning
with that surge of adrenalinethat comes after a night of
(08:55):
drinking.
Sometimes those thoughts wouldpop into my mind and then you
just think, oh my gosh, this hasgot to stop.
But then five o'clock comesaround and you just pick it up
again, pick up the glass againand keep going.
So yeah, once I, once I gotthrough that first day, honestly
the first, that first full day,january 1st.
(09:17):
I I mean I was hung over againbecause, because New Year's Eve,
I was like this might, thismight, who knows, this might be
the last hurrah, yeah, yeah,exactly.
It's like, let's finish off allof the wine in the house, um.
So I probably felt bad enoughon that day that it was okay.
So we'll say, maybe like thesecond day of january when I was
(09:38):
like this is it?
I'm fully like, don't have.
I mean, I still obviously hadthe effects of alcohol in my
system.
But that day of just gettingthrough it, getting through
dinner time especially, was mytrigger time because I would,
you know, when I was cookingdinner I would oh, that's when I
would start drinking for theevening, Like I would start when
(10:02):
I started making dinner.
Such a routine, such a habitthat I was thinking how am I
going to do this?
And I just did it with I stilluse my exact same like stimulus
wine glass that I would use, butI put in LaCroix and I had
orange slices.
You know just whatever I coulddo to still feel like that had
(10:22):
that ritual.
But get through that day.
And once I got through that day, it just gave me that hope of
like I can do, I can possibly dothis Like, and I started
feeling better by day seven.
I mean it took a little while.
Sleep was rough those first fewnights Cause I was used to
having enough alcohol in mysystem that I could just, you
know, basically lay down, fallasleep.
(10:43):
So once the alcohol was out,then my whole my body was trying
to learn how to fall asleep onits own.
So that was a little rough atfirst, a little unexpected, but
then, once I got through that,then sleep was like glorious,
Like the best thing I ever had.
I would wake up feeling likeamazing.
(11:04):
I was like, oh, this is how I'msupposed to feel.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
This is how you're supposed to sleep, right, and
you wake up feeling yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, and so that was just amazing.
So that just encouraged me tokeep going to see.
I knew that there were otherpositive effects that might take
longer to show up, but thatjust gave me that push, that,
yeah, you are doing this andthis is what you're supposed to
be doing, and even though it's,it wasn't super duper easy peasy
(11:32):
, but it was.
I knew I could do it Januarytoo.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But my mindset was very different, because I was in
a mindset of I'm going to haveto tough out 30 days or 31 days,
I guess.
And and then I'm you know, Icannot wait for February 1st,
right, like I can't like justget me through it.
Like I was like, you know, likegripping, and I think the two
(12:02):
times I had tried it I don'teven think I made it, because
then my birthday is in January.
And then there's something else, you know, like the Super Bowl
was something like there'salways something to to divert me
.
So when I stopped and I said tomyself it wasn't, it wasn't
January, it was a random day inMay, so it was.
(12:24):
But I said I'm going to go 30days and my mindset felt very
different.
Then I just felt like I hadmaybe more of like a why behind
it, like why.
I mean that was the difference.
So when you stopped for youknow, because a lot of people do
dry January and then eitherprobably like me, like don't
(12:45):
make it, and you know, likethings it's like any resolution,
things just fade away or theymake it and then they stop.
They start drinking again.
So what was the difference foryou that got you past like day
31?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
in.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
January.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I think I kind of used dry January as like my
cover, because so many people doit like you say, and so it was
a way that I could just say I'mdoing dry January.
In my mind, I knew I wanted toquit forever.
I knew I needed to quit but Iwas, so I was terrified that I
really wouldn't be able to do it.
(13:23):
And then what does that sayabout me?
I'm like what does that mean ifI can't make it 31 days or even
two weeks?
So I used it to protect myselfand that I could tell people
that without feeling any kind ofweirdness, because there's
always this judgment I don'tknow if it's just a perceived
(13:46):
judgment or if there is literaljudgment but you feel like, if
you are taking a break, thatthere's something quote unquote
like wrong with you, that youcan't handle alcohol.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, you have a problem.
You have a problem, right.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, so I had.
You know, I felt that in me atthe time.
You know now I've completelybeen able to release all of that
, which is amazing, but at thetime that's where I was.
So I knew I wanted to quit.
I knew I wanted that to be theend.
And getting myself through thatmonth I feel like that by the
(14:25):
end of January I knew there wasno going back for me and I knew
moderation was never going towork for me.
I had tried to semi moderate,not in the terms of not drinking
on certain days, but just notdrinking as much on certain days
, like oh, during the week I'llonly have one glass, and just
(14:47):
that whole mental gymnastics.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, there's always an excuse, right?
I mean moderation, I think, isthe most fusing word in the
English language, because I meaneven when it comes to food, you
know, like everything inmoderation.
But what on earth doesmoderation mean?
I did the same thing.
I mean even when it comes tofood, you know, right, like
everything in moderation.
But what on earth doesmoderation mean?
I did the same thing.
I mean I said a hundred timesyou know, I'm only going to
drink on the weekends, I'm onlygoing to maybe on like a Tuesday
(15:11):
if I go with friends and aSaturday.
But then what happens?
If it's Wednesday and friendswant to go out, then do I not
drink on that Wednesday, do I?
I mean, I think you know I callit decision fatigue.
You probably have heard of that.
I mean there's just, you know,like try.
So I think when I then quit Iwas like it is just a no, it's a
(15:33):
no, and that just felt so mucheasier for me than to try to
figure out moderation.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Totally.
Yeah, it's the weight off ofyour shoulders.
Yeah, your no means no.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's just a no.
I mean just like, let's not tryto like right, I'll only have
two drinks on Friday.
I don't know it, just thatnever worked for me.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So yeah, Cause there's always the somebody else
you know just tops off yourglass, and all of a sudden, now
it's two and a half.
And then, well, why am I?
Why not just have?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
four Right, right, yeah.
So that got yeah.
So I think moderation I meansome people can do moderation,
but I think for the rest of usthat if you're really serious
about losing alcohol in yourlife, I think moderation is much
(16:27):
harder, I think, than juststopping it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I agree Totally so much harder because, yeah,
trying to keep track andbargaining with yourself and
then you inevitably let yourselfdown and that feeling is icky
and that's what I was feelingover and over, I was always
letting myself down and I feellike that's how moderation can
get eventually for people whoare trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But yeah, yeah, yes, I know, and I think so.
When I stopped drinking forgood, I think that was a big
driver for me, as I didn't wantto let myself down.
I was this felt too importantto me and I wanted to keep going
.
And I made it to like my, youknow, I kind of did increments
of 30 days and like I couldn'tbelieve I did 30 days and like
(17:16):
you know, and then I was like,let me challenge myself to do
another 30 days.
And when I got to day 60, I wasastounded.
I hadn't gone 60 days in years,you know.
And then it just like keptgoing.
And then I could, you know, andthen all of a sudden it's a
year now, it's almost sevenyears in May, in May for me, and
(17:42):
and I, you know, and I'm, youknow, I'm sure, same for you,
that probably was the samefeeling like wow, like you know,
all of a sudden here it is acouple of months and a year,
then two years, and and it's,and it's a really nice feeling.
Yeah, but you, but along the way, there's a lot of things you
mentioned a couple of thingslike the judgment from people
and the fear of that, and Idefinitely felt so much of that
(18:06):
too.
I mean there's you know, Ithink in the end you will.
You might lose friends, youmight your friendships shift.
Yeah right, because thosepeople that you are, that you
know, you realize, the peoplethat you bonded with through
alcohol or wine, you know thatonce you stop, that might make
(18:30):
them uncomfortable or they don'tknow how to relate to you
without having a glass of winein your hand and did you feel
like that happened with you?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
yeah, and I was.
That was probably what I was.
That was up there in my levelof things that I was nervous
about, um, and COVID kind ofprotected me too because I
wasn't going out and in 2021,you know, things were kind of
slowly starting but at the timeso that also gave me this little
cover blanket of not being outwith a friend and then mean
(19:03):
being all of a sudden notordering wine, but eventually it
did.
You know, all those experiencesdid happen, but I kind of had
some time under my belt and felta lot more confident in myself.
So I mean, I think, for anybodywho's thinking about it and is
nervous about that, I mean youcan always sort of find ways to
not necessarily go out at firstif you feel like that's going to
(19:24):
be the thing that's going tohold you back.
I mean there's ways to get outof it.
The first time, ordering like aclub soda and lime or something
you know, at a restaurant that'sa nice restaurant that has a
(19:45):
beautiful wine list and, youknow, beautiful bar and all that
it did it felt strange.
But then once it arrived and Iwas drinking that I felt so
empowered.
It's like here I am, I'm goingto feel great tomorrow morning
and I just kind of got throughthat first hurdle and and it
(20:07):
felt amazing.
And so after that kind of justgetting through that first
encounter, it's been, it's not.
It doesn't bother me at allanymore, and I do know that it
probably I don't.
Well, I don't say no, but Ifeel like if I'm with other
people who are all drinking, itmight feel awkward to them that
I'm not, but I don't careanymore.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, I don't care anymore either.
But I know that when I firstwas out socializing with people
that I was so afraid of thembeing uncomfortable with my not
drinking yes, which sounds sosilly now, but but back that,
(20:45):
that's just how I was like oh, Idon't want them to feel
uncomfortable, I'm not going tobe drinking a glass of wine.
I'm really happy that I didn'tever cave into that.
You know and and I thinksometimes you right so you do
have have to maybe shift yoursocializing a little bit.
I mean, even still now.
I mean a lot of times I'll just, rather than meet friends out
(21:08):
at a bar for their glasses ofwine, I'll meet for coffee, or
I'll meet for breakfast, or justsomething different like that.
Do you feel like that?
You kind of shifted yoursocializing?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
yeah, totally and and I'm just, it shows too how much
you can get to know somebody somuch better when you are, yeah,
like having breakfast, havingcoffee, going for a walk, versus
it being, yeah, like you knowthe scene at the bar ordering
the glasses, talking about thewine.
You know like, you know thescene at the bar ordering the
(21:42):
glasses talking about the wine.
You know just it all sort ofrevolved around that so surface
level, and then after a certainamount of time you're just
repeating yourself too.
You know, once everybody's beendrinking for a couple hours,
nobody's really listening toeach other, it's just you know
Exactly listening to each other.
(22:03):
It's just you know exactly.
So that has changed.
And then now when I do spendtime with friends, I feel like
I'm actually getting to knowthem and talking about real
things and and that has been ahuge in the meeting new people
to like, I've tried to be inplaces where there are more
people that might notnecessarily be sober but just
kind of just it's secondary ortertiary, like they don't even
(22:26):
really care about it that much,and so that's been amazing to
just opening myself up to newfriendships and new
relationships that are based offof just wanting to get to know
each other.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So, absolutely, I mean, that is something I've
I've wanted to do too is to seekout people who were, like
alcohol is not the main focusand that it's not the main
activity.
That we're doing because Icertainly was doing that and I
want to have real conversationsand real friendships and, like I
(23:02):
said before, I mean I some ofmy my relationships with some
friends really shifted a lot.
I've lost a couple of like Iwas like can you not relate to
me if?
I don't have a glass of wine inmy hand.
But it's okay, it's all right,because I would rather be who
(23:28):
you know here and have and makenew friends and have you know
real deep friendships than haveit be surface level.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, would be surface level, yeah, yeah, and I
think it the way that it's gotto just be some kind of
reflection back on them.
Not, you know, it's not usputting out the vibe that we
don't want to hang out with youif you still drink, because it's
something that's coming in fromthem, inside of them, that they
just don't want to see, don'twant to, don't want to go there
(23:59):
in their own mind.
And so, yeah, it's not the bestfeeling when that happens, but
then in the end I think it's theonly way it's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think it's sometimes other women.
I mean it kind of forces themto look at them.
They're drinking.
I mean I know that when I wasdrinking and there was the one
person who was not drinking, I'mlike you're no fun and I don't
want you to look at me while I'mdrinking or like or judge me.
You know for what I'm doing andI'm not.
(24:33):
I don't you do you like?
You drink as much as you.
I'm not judging anybody fortheir, for their drinking.
I'm just focused on me.
You know and and what I'm, whatI'm doing.
But yeah, I think that that'sit.
It forces, not forces it.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It, I think, nudges people to look at their own
drinking yeah, if they yeah, ifthat's something that they're
already kind of struggling with,then it is.
It just becomes like a mirroronto them that it's not our you
know, again, again, we're notdoing it on purpose, we're not
out here judging them, but it'sinevitable, I think, with some
(25:09):
people, based on what theirrelationship is at the time with
alcohol.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, and you mentioned something about the
habits before, about the linkbetween you know you would start
cooking in the evenings, andthen that when you'd pour a
glass of wine, and I think forme that was one of the biggest
eye openers, that I had notconnected this relationship
between like my habits, like myjust my day to day activities
(25:36):
and and like pouring a glass ofwine, and I was eye-opening for
me.
I couldn't believe it, thatlike you do it on autopilot.
Sometimes it's five o'clock,it's Friday and I, you know I,
it was just like automatic,without thought, yeah, the glass
out of the cabinet, you saidyou're, you're a stemless wine
(25:58):
glass, you're like all of thoselittle subtle things, what you
know.
And then, and then, if it'sright, you start cooking, if
you're having a bad day, it'sfriday, happy hour, it's, I mean
right, the links between all ofthese, and so I, it's, I get
why it is so difficult sometimesto stop, yeah, or to think
(26:22):
about stopping, because you havea lot invested in your habits
with it, and so that really, Ihad to really like unravel, like
a lot of that, those kind ofhabits, and replace it.
Did you find this too, that likeI had to like find other things
to put in its place, or evenlike create a mocktail, or you
(26:45):
know.
Like you know, make, get mywine glass out and then like,
but make like a, something likepretty in it and alcohol free
and and, but just other thingslike Friday happy hour.
I had, you know, I think I knowat the beginning I found like a
yoga class that was at likefive o'clock on Fridays and that
was my.
That turned into my happy hourfor a little while love that
(27:07):
yeah yeah, what about you?
do you feel like you had to liketo kind of disconnect these
like unlink these like habitsfrom your wine?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
yes, totally, and the more once I started kind of
learning about it too.
It's like you really do buildnew neural pathways I mean those
neural pathways that were there, that were such the the habit
of five o'clock starting dinnerwine to let those pathways go
away and build these new ones.
(27:39):
That was what I really focusedon, probably for the first six
months, because once I knew whatI was doing, it was empowering
to know that that is actuallywhat I was doing.
So, yeah, with the glass andthe mocktail, I mean, I probably
I felt like I spent more moneyon mocktails at the beginning
than I used to on wine, becausesome of them are expensive.
I love those curious elixirs Idon't know if you've tried those
(28:03):
brand.
They're so good but they're alittle pricey.
So, but then eventually I gotto where I didn't have to have
the mocktail anymore and justanything was fine.
But I gave myself all the gracein the world during those first
times doing that.
So that was the one and then Iwould.
My like habit routine was tostay in the kitchen after dinner
(28:25):
, you know, cleaning up or andthen like scrolling, you know,
on the internet and stilldrinking.
So I knew I got to get my buttout of the kitchen once, once
dinner was over.
So I kind of went to a newlocation, like I'd go to the LA,
sit up on my bed, watch TV andhave hot tea.
So that became like my newevening ritual and I just did
(28:52):
that over and over and overagain until that's what my body
craved and that's what I wanted,because the cravings too I'm
I'm sure you probably had thethose cravings that would hit
and then just learning how toride it out, knowing that it
would go away.
But having those new rituals inplace, then those would, they
just disappeared.
(29:12):
I mean, I never thought that Icould at originally, like I
didn't think I would ever beable to not think about wine
when I was cooking dinner.
And you know, I mean I justmade dinner last night, didn't
even?
I don't even think I had waterout.
I probably should have had somewater.
But you know it just it, justit all went away.
It just shows how our brainscan change and heal and that's
(29:34):
so encouraging to knowing we canchange all of that.
So, and I love the I've there'sa six o'clock yoga class now
that I've on fridays that I'vekind of started going to.
I didn't have that back then,but it's.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's great to find those things to do instead yeah,
yeah, I definitely, I almostlike I I have to like maybe find
my old list somewhere, but Iremember making a list of, like
just you know, kind ofbrainstorming, a list of all the
things that I could do in itsplace when I had those.
You know, like thoseconnections, yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I think that makes thedifference between, like you
(30:20):
know, knowing that you're havinga craving and that cravings are
temporary.
You know, like cravings will,you can behind it, that you want
to, right, just know that thosecravings dissipate and that
you're replacing them.
Like you know, you had yourevening tea every night.
It sounds like you went up toyour bedroom, right?
(30:53):
So you're like away from yourkitchen, like away from, like
the trigger room, right?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I mean, this is no different really than food.
You you know like we're talkingabout, like weight loss and
food and stuff.
So that's you know?
yeah, really good, justreminders.
So you focus on women inmidlife and empty nesting.
Is there, did you get?
I know that you're?
This is your story too rightthat you're that you're in mid
your story too right that you'rethat you're a in midlife and
(31:22):
empty nesting, or about to be anempty nester, I mean in a year?
Um, do you find that this agegroup is different in some way?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
yeah, I feel like it's such a great opportunity
for for change, for potential,because everything is really
about the change.
I mean everything that we'vespent the last 20 years doing,
or more.
If you have more than one child, then it could span even longer
than that amount of time.
So once they start, they'rekind of leaving and starting
(31:59):
their life, and I can see howthere can be that feeling of
well, now, what about me?
This was my goal was to get youto launch, but I didn't really
spend a.
I feel like it's just thisamazing opportunity to find out
(32:22):
what you really like to dorediscover, especially once
getting the alcohol out of thepicture, like I was able to
rediscover things that I just,you know, forgot about.
That I didn't that I probablylike that.
I liked back for when I was inmy 20s and then just let it go
away.
Back for when I was in my 20sand then just let it go away,
(32:45):
and then being able to also see,like, the health benefits that
can come from it.
I mean, when you're in your 20sdrinking, 30s drinking yeah,
you're not going to feel greatall the time, but it's
definitely hits a littledifferent once you've, you know,
passed into that middle agemark.
I mean, even just the way thatwe metabolize especially women
metabolize alcohol changes oncewe've gone through menopause,
and so it's all just affectingus differently too.
(33:07):
So I feel like it's just a greattime to just let it go, or at
least try letting it go, and seehow you feel, and see what
comes up and what you canimagine for yourself now.
Yeah, because I mean duringthis time, like I've started a
whole new career, you know.
So it's just something that Inever.
If I was still stuck in thekitchen drinking every night,
(33:31):
that's what I would still bedoing, you know tonight.
So, with getting it out is whatit's just changed, and, and you
know, you kind of feel a littlebit of that liberation too,
once your kids are growing up, Imean, it's they're doing their
thing and they don't need youfor all the things anymore, and
so it gives you that sense ofokay, now it's my time to really
(33:53):
focus on me.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying
and and I think that's it issuch a good opportunity to
consider maybe losing the one.
You know our wine habits andeverything.
But I feel like there's also,like I had said before, like I
knew like there was, that it wasalmost like a crossroads, like
I could have stayed drinking andsaid like, oh phew, we finally
(34:19):
made it, my kids are out of thehouse.
They're living on their own, youknow, and that's what's
happening and and you know.
So let's celebrate every nightand let's, you know, like you
know, let's let's open up a newbottle of wine, because without
my kids at home and like them,like sort of watching over, you
know, or seeing what I was doing, I could have seen myself going
(34:41):
down a more, a bigger road.
And I mean, you know, the thingis, I don't know if you've like
read statistics, but drinkingin midlife is definitely, and I
probably, from COVID on, reallywent gangbusters, I mean.
So, like, I mean heavy drinkingwith women in midlife, yeah,
(35:04):
and it's not great, I mean it'snot, it's like a.
The statistics are really kindof alarming and yeah, and then
throw in you know all the likehealth issues, midlife menopause
, your incidents for heartdisease, strokes, cancers, I
mean it all boom like goes wayup at this point.
(35:25):
So the connection betweenalcohol and health issues is
huge.
And then not being able tometabolize alcohol like we used
to, yes, so it is a great timeto consider losing alcohol from
your life, but sometimes, youknow, I could see I just have
(35:45):
some people, I know that like, Imean it's very ingrained in
them.
I mean don't talk to them about, like, stopping drinking, like
it's not going to happen.
I mean maybe it will, but a bigpart of their lives.
But everyone's different right.
I mean everyone does things ontheir own, their own terms.
Tell me you know just what haveyou seen from women in midlife
(36:10):
empty nesting.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I mean, have you seen , like, really, that pops up the
most, you know, and just oh, Icould not necessarily starting
their own business, but orstarting or if they're, you know
, had artistic aspirationsbefore, like that coming back,
like creativity, I would say, issort of the what kind of is the
(36:48):
underlying characteristic andall of the things that pop up is
that your creativity surges andyou can actually start to delve
into it more.
So, yeah, I think that would bethe biggest, the biggest thing.
And then energy.
You know, that is somethingthat I think we just assume as
(37:11):
we get older, that we're goingto have less and less energy,
but I try drinking and yes,right I mean right.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean mean at least like right taking away that like
sedative.
It is gonna absolutely likebenefit your energy.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah and so then you've got, you know, somebody's
a traveler like all of a sudden, now that's just easier, more
enjoyable and yeah, andeverything with the whole cancer
thing is that really surprisedme, seeing the statistics with
that, especially breast cancer,you know something that we know.
(37:49):
Obviously that's something that,for women, is one of probably
always in the back of most ofour heads is you know, whether
you have a family history or not, and once I saw how much you
know even one drink a daygreatly increases your risk for
breast cancer and I was likewhat it's like?
It's just all of these, thethings that I thought I was
(38:10):
doing to be so healthy in everyother way of my life, but then
drinking every night, which justcompletely, you know, not only
canceled it out but alsocanceled out the good things I
was doing, and then it wasincreasing my risk too.
So I think you know I know wecan't completely control whether
(38:32):
or not it's going to happen tous, but feeling like you've got
a little bit, a teeny bit ofcontrol in that regard, like
just taking this out, will help,will not increase my risk
anymore.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So yes, absolutely yeah, and that's kind of a good
feeling that at least you mightknow that you're not
contributing or eating andabetting you know more risk and
I think some other things I meanjust to.
I don't know when you stopdrinking.
Some other things I mean justto.
I don't know when you stopdrinking, just the clarity you
(39:02):
have in your head.
I mean it's not that life turnslike all of a sudden into like
a miraculous, like bed of rosesevery single day, but it the
peace of mind I know that I have, it just is outweighs anything.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, it outweighs that like urge to go and like
start drinking again and oh yeah, no yeah, and I don't know if
you, I had just I didn't realizethe um kind of level of anxiety
that I had.
That was just sort of abaseline like jitteriness
feeling.
I thought that was because Ihad kids and I had this, and
(39:40):
then taking it once the alcoholgot out after that was probably
one of the things I reallynoticed.
After about a full month ofbeing alcohol free, I was like I
don't feel this racing of myheart anymore when I'm just, you
know, doing nothing, whereasbefore I always just felt this
low lying level of anxiety andthat's gone away.
(40:02):
I mean, I can still be anxious,I can be anxious about things,
it's not like I can't be, butit's not just constant low-grade
anxiety.
That was a huge eye-openingthing for me.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I mean all that alcohol and all that disrupted
sleep gives you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I mean that's right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
So at least, if you're going to have anxiety,
have it with a clear head Rightand not because of you know too
many glasses of wine the nightbefore, because I know I find
nothing worse than that feeling.
Oh yeah, it's called anxiety.
Ready to hang over with anxiety?
Yes, yeah, the worstcombination yeah the worst.
(40:42):
So any other takeaways do youthink, for women I mean?
I think, like we said, I thinkthis is midlife and just this
empty nest time is such a goodtime to consider if you're
considering it going alcoholfree.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, and so I would.
I know it can feel scary, rightCause we both sort of talked
about that and you think aboutyour social connections and just
your traditions, even and Ijust want to encourage anybody
that you can work through those,like those things eventually
(41:23):
become completely forgotten,like you don't worry about the
social part anymore.
You don't worry about you know,if you're going on your
vacation, your family vacation,where you would always have
drinks with your family orwhatever, like that part of it
goes away quickly.
So I just don't want anybody tofeel like that's what's holding
(41:44):
them back or and also like thestigma of, oh, I'm reevaluating
my relationship with alcohol.
What are people going to think?
I mean, in that thing, you dohave to work through it, which
we also discussed.
It is, it's a real feeling, butit's so worth it.
On the other side, it's likeimpossible to describe sometimes
(42:05):
how worth it is.
So so I just the things thatthat people have in their mind
that's holding them back.
I just encourage them to towork through those to understand
that it's normal to have thosefeelings, but they will all be
gone once you've made it throughto the other side.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, no, I mean, I know that I struggle.
I mean I feel like I almostlike still struggle a tiny every
once in a while.
I think it's just a very oldhabit that I'm like, oh, a
holiday's coming, oh yeah.
Yeah, you know, I have familymembers who still, you know,
(42:52):
alcohol is very central to theholiday, and it's just a habit.
It's not that I'm going to goand drink, but it's just that
initial, like initial, likeeveryone else is drinking, but I
but I think the new habit forme, though, is to consider what
I'm going to be feeling like thenext day.
I'm going to be getting up onthe next morning and going to
the gym, and you are not,because you are going to be very
(43:16):
hungover and feeling miserable,and I mean, yeah.
So I think that's another goodthing to think about, just like
just those triggers that youthink I can never like.
There's no way I can survive aholiday without alcohol.
There's no way it's my birthday.
I can't do that unless I, likeI'm drinking champagne.
You absolutely can, exactly,you can, and you can do it and
(43:43):
actually have fun.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, getting through all those first year things was
so.
You know, once you, once youdid everything the first
Christmas, your first birthday,all of that.
Once you get it behind you,once you're like, well, I can do
it again, absolutely you know,you might be an example to
somebody else too in your familyand encourage her.
You know too.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yes, yeah.
Well, Emily, this was such agreat talk I'm so happy to
always meet other people whohave a similar story as me and
and tell me what you do withclients, how you work with them
and where they can find you.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, so I my Instagram handle and my is
living free with Emily, and thenmy website is living free with
emilycom and I am about tolaunch a 12 week group program.
I feel like group programs aresuper helpful because you are
able to connect with other womenthat are at the same stage as
(44:45):
you.
So we'll move through whatmodules?
With some live videos, livegroup calls and then the Slack
community to be able to supporteach other through that 12-week
period.
So that's launching May 12thand you can get on the wait list
on my website.
And I also have a free quizthat's called what's your
(45:06):
alcohol empowered, alcohol freepersonality.
So just a fun quiz to kind ofshow you what your, if you were
alcohol free, what was yourpersonality reflects that
alcohol free empowerment of it.
Yeah, it's fun.
So that's on my website too.
And yeah, so I'm excited toworking in the group format with
(45:27):
with women.
I just I love the opportunityto build that connection and
that community.
That's really what I'm drawn to.
So so, yeah, that's the that'swhere I am and that's what I'm
doing.
So, yeah, that's where I am andthat's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I think that sounds great, because quitting alcohol
can feel very lonely and I thinkcommunity around it is really
everything, and I think so whenyou have other women who are
going through the same thingwith you, it's hugely impactful
and I think it helps with yourcommitment to staying alcohol
(46:05):
free.
So, that's fantastic.
So May 12th?
Okay, well, those links will bein my show notes and everyone
can reach out there.
And, emily, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you tellingyour story and look forward to
seeing what you do.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thank you for sharing yours too.
I love having theseconversations with fellow
alcohol-free people.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, me too.
Okay, thank you Thanks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.