April 15, 2025 • 43 mins
Were going beyond kegels and talking about real solutions for incontinence in midlife
This week, we’re talking about something so many women deal with — but almost no one talks about: urinary incontinence.
After having twins, I thought leaking was just something I’d have to live with. I was told to do kegels and move on. But they didn’t help — in fact, they made things worse.
In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Nigel Brayer, creator of the Iron-Clad Bladder System, who’s on a mission to change the conversation around bladder health. We talk about why traditional advice only addresses a small piece of the problem, and how your nervous system, hormones, stress, and even your hydration habits play a much bigger role than most people realize.
If you’ve ever felt embarrassed, frustrated, or just confused about what’s happening with your body — this one’s for you. You’re not alone, and you don’t have to just live with it.
Listen in and learn:
- Why kegels aren’t always the answer
- How menopause, stress, and certain foods impact bladder function
- What to do instead — including physical, nutritional, and nervous system support
- How to break the shame and take back control of your health
Learn more about Dr. Brayer and his free seminar on healing your bladder, April 17, 2025 8pm EST click HERE
To learn about Dr. Brayers Iron Clad Bladder program, click HERE
Find Dr. Brayer on IG HERE
I would love to hear from you! What did you think of the episode? Share it with me :)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast.
I always want to talk andaddress topics related to
women's nutrition and health,especially the ones that we feel
have to be kept secret becausewe are too afraid to talk about
them or even say them out loud.
So when I found Nigel Breyer, Iknew I had to have him on the
(00:21):
podcast, and let me tell you why.
Nigel Breyer is a chiropractorand a diplomate in acupuncture,
an expert in natural medicineand a women's urinary health
expert.
He developed the iron-cladbladder system, which is a
drug-free treatment for urinaryincontinence that combines
(00:44):
neurological insights withtraditional Chinese medicine,
helping numerous women findrelief from this condition.
Hi, nigel, welcome to the show.
I'm so happy to have you herebecause, okay, let's face it,
urinary and bladder issues forwomen are right up there with
talking about menopause andhormones.
There's a lot of mystery andthere is a decent amount of
(01:08):
shame and a feeling that this issomething we just have to live
with.
There's a lot of women I knowwho have bladder issues and
urinary incontinence, and mostof them, I imagine, are
struggling.
So I want to hear from you, asyou are the expert in this, what
exactly urinary incontinence is, how it's defined, why it
(01:30):
happens and is there a certainage?
And then, most importantly,what we can do about it.
So I want to ask you all thethings about everything, bladder
.
So why don't we just jump in,tell me your story, how you got
into this, and we'll go fromthere?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Great Thanks, heather .
This is a great pleasure andI'm super excited for our
conversation.
Well, let's get started.
I've been named the reluctantbladder doctor and I think I've
really embraced that termbecause it's absolutely true.
And I know Heather and I didn'tknow about it for many, many
months and it took some probingand digging and probably even
(02:36):
some pestering for her tofinally share with me what was
going on.
And being in the healthcarefield is, again, I had my
specialty at that time and itwasn't incontinence.
So through our journey andpeople can read about it on our
website if they like but throughour journey is we found that
there's really no good options.
(02:57):
There's some options but noneof them are that great,
especially in the natural healthfield for incontinence the
typical pathways like pelvicfloor therapy and Kegels and
stuff.
They have some value but theyjust didn't show the results
that we're looking for.
So because of that experienceand really how it affected my
(03:19):
wife and I's relationship, justin terms of activity of our
family and her ability to traveland hike and run and all those
things that she enjoyed, reallycame to a halt.
So there's a lot of facets thatcome up with.
That is, you know, why didn'tmy wife want to share with me
right off the bat?
And of course that led me tothe understanding that this is
(03:41):
an extremely patchy subject anda lot of people have a lot of of
um I'll call it baggage behindit, and again, I'm not an expert
on that at all, but I canspeculate that there's just a
lot of self-worth that goes intothat.
That condition is is when welose our ability to control our
bladder is we have a lot ofdoubts of us as a human, as a
(04:04):
parent, as a.
If I can't do this, well, Imustn't be that Like.
There's just a lot of differentpathways our minds go.
So it really helped meunderstand, I guess, where a lot
of people are coming from.
But then it also led me on thismission to say, okay, well,
I've been in the natural healthfield for 28 years.
Mission to say, okay, well,I've been in the natural health
(04:26):
field for 28 years, the body'sdesigned to heal is there.
So it pushed me to look at,well, what are the key barriers
that keep most conditions fromresolving themselves?
So that's kind of led me onthat pathway and that's where
the program started from.
So I know I kind of gave you alot of information there, but I
was trying to summarize as bestI can.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I know.
I mean now I have morequestions from that, you know,
because I want to know what thestatistics are, if you know this
, of women who are sufferingfrom urinary incontinence and
bladder issues.
And I think that there's atleast I've had this belief that
(05:05):
you know I had a twin pregnancyand then I had another one right
very quickly after that and mybladder was just like blown and
I feel like it's just somethingthat you have a pregnancy and
then you have to like live with,like bladder issues, like
there's this like underlyingbelief that you know these
things happen to women and thenyou have to like live with these
(05:30):
other conditions.
So let's just start what arethe statistics for women with
bladder issues?
And also, I want to maybe backup just a little bit more what
exactly is urinary incontinence?
Because we're using, you know,like maybe bigger words that
people might not understand.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Sure, let's define that first.
So urinary incontinence isbroken up into really two
categories.
There's urge incontinence isone, and there's stress
incontinence, which is the other, and most of them go together.
But let's talk aboutincontinence.
So incontinence means theinability to have full control
(06:08):
of your urinary bladder.
So, to make it simple, is youpee your pants for various
reasons and you can't seem tostop it, and there's various
degrees of.
Some people have no ability,control at all.
Some have ability, but whenthey're under mental stress or
they're thinking about going tothe bathroom, they start to leak
(06:28):
because the bladder or thevalve starts to what's called
fasciculate, which kind of meansquiver.
And then there's some thatbecause of like you experienced,
heather, there's physicaltrauma.
So what I like to do for peopleis help them understand the
bladders.
Think of it like a balloon witha straw stuck in it, or a straw
(06:50):
stuck where you'd blow it up Nowobviously a male's urethra, so
you think of the straw as longerthe lady's is shorter, so hers
is about an inch long, and menhave a valve which is called a
sphincter, one at the neck,that's right where the straw
would meet the balloon, andright at the end, and that's
called the external sphincterthe ladies is all together.
(07:12):
So there's approximately aninch of a valve that's
controlled.
And this is what's reallycurious is 70% of that valve is
what's called autonomicallycontrolled.
Autonomic means unconscious,kind of like your heart's
beating, your food's digesting.
Those are happening withoutyour necessarily consent.
(07:33):
It's happening in the back partof the brain that's running you
, and the 30% is consciouslycontrolled.
And so what that means is whenyou're doing a Kegel or you're
doing a pelvic floor work, isyou're really addressing only
30% of that control of the valve?
So, as you look deeper, thatbegs the question well, how do
(07:56):
you gain control of that other70%?
And that's what's sointeresting about that valve
itself is it's a product of allof your experiences together.
So I don't want to go too fardown the rabbit hole here.
But as we think of us as aculture, we're highly stressed,
we're highly motivated, we'rehighly scheduled, we're highly
everything, and that affectsevery single part of us.
(08:20):
It affects our blood pressure,it affects our heart rate, it
affects our digestion, ourthinking pattern.
Well, it it affects our bloodpressure, it affects our heart
rate, it affects our digestion,our thinking pattern.
Well, it also affects ourbladder.
So one of the big, I guess,epiphanies that I had as I was
doing my research and studying,and such is, I thought to myself
, if I have a way to influencethe autonomic nervous system, I
(08:44):
can start to have a much betterimpact on that valve instead of
just the Kegels, which is purely, you know, physical, strength
conscious, if I can startinfluencing that, which means I
now have to start addressingbigger issues.
I have to address the autonomicnervous system, I have to
address the underlying stressors.
(09:05):
And this goes back to yourearlier question is well, what
are the causes?
Well, there's no one cause.
Childbirth is certainly aphysical event, and then twins,
that's even a more physicalevent.
So there's a physical component, but then there's also a
nutritional, chemical, hormonalcomponent.
What you eat, food is chemicals,it's biochemistry, right.
(09:26):
So the foods that we put intoour body, our bacterial growth
in our GI tract, they'recreating different byproducts
that either help us or hurt us.
Then we also have our mental,emotional.
So there's really three bigcomponents it's the physical,
the nutritional, chemical,hormonal, which obviously when
ladies change their hormoneschange with menstruation or with
(09:48):
menopause that's going toinfluence these same tissues
we're talking about.
But then we also talk about themental stressors.
So the big picture is you haveto address all of them a little
bit.
There's no like, and I'm nodifferent than anyone else.
If there was a one hit wonderwonder, I'd be all over it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Let's do this one thing like yeah, because I'm
sorry to interrupt you, but Iknow that you know me growing up
over the years like the onething the only thing that I had
ever heard about was doingkegels.
Right, it was just make sureyou're like squeezing and like
doing, like doing these liketightening, and never was there
(10:25):
any connection between yournervous system, what you ate,
how you know your gut, you knowhealth.
I'm sure any any of this mental.
So I want to, definitely I wantto like address each of these
because I think that they doplay a huge role.
I mean, I know that they do andyou know role.
I mean I know that they do andyou know that too.
(10:46):
But let me just, are there anystatistics for you know, for
women Like?
I mean?
Because sometimes I see womenlike I know for me, like there
are certain foods we'll get intothe foods but that are kind of
like trigger my bladder, youknow, and and I see women who
just seem like they don't like.
(11:07):
If I drink coffee, for examplewhich I'm not a huge, I'm not a
big coffee drinker but caffeineI think like triggers my bladder
to like have to, you know, likego more and everything.
And I see some women just liketaking like a five mile walk
with like a cup of coffee intheir hand.
I'm like, how are you doingthat?
You know so.
So I think there's probablywomen who don't get affected by
(11:29):
bladder issues.
But what?
What are the statistics?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Sure.
So if you look at all women,just you know of an adult age
group, one in three women.
So 33% of all women areaffected.
Now, one in three women, so 33%of all women are affected.
Now, when you change the time,the age factor, when we look
over ladies over the age of 35to 45, around 50% have some
(11:53):
degree Okay, and again it's allvaried.
And we look at women over 50 to55, we're talking almost 70%.
So again there's definitely atime component.
So we talk about hormones.
We talk about how hormonesaffect tissue as the tissue
integrity changes, things thatmight have been more easily
(12:13):
managed.
Younger, because elastin isreduced.
Elastin is what giveseverything bounce and
flexibility as we're younger.
So tissue changes increase,something that was already there
younger, okay.
And then back to your earlier umobservation about the lady
drinking coffee and you know,taking a long walk is I like to
(12:34):
think about the three stressorsas a bucket and so, and you can
draw, imagine a bucket full ofwater and you can draw a line on
that bucket anywhere you want.
I like to call that theconstitutional marker.
So we all have differentconstitutions.
You know, you can handle moreof this, I can handle more of
that, less of this, less of that, and we all have that.
(12:56):
But all stressors affect all ofus.
But where that threshold is iskind of a factor of a whole
bunch of different things.
It's a factor of some genetics,it's a factor of our general
dietary habits, it's a factor ofour mental you know fortitude.
All these things are affectingus.
But the big picture is iseventually everything affects
(13:20):
everybody.
It's just how much of thebucket?
And a perfect example, just toyou know, divergent is.
I hear this with patients allthe time.
I never had allergies until Iturned 40.
How come?
Well, you were sensitive whenyou were 20, but your stress
load got to a point where yourbody can't manage that stressor
(13:40):
anymore.
And now you start to havesymptoms.
And that's very similar toanything.
The bladder is no exception Ishey, once I had my third child,
everything went to pieces.
Or I was fine after this andthen this happened, or I got a
flu and then all this happened.
Those are just stressors, thatkind of push that little marker
(14:01):
over the edge and then a symptomappears, but it usually happens
long before that.
On the um, subtle level, shallwe say yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Uh, so you mentioned hormones.
You said that when women turn50, right and older than like
the statistics the incidencereally goes up.
And you mentioned hormones, andis there an estrogen menopausal
connection to bladder issues?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So let's just kind of digress a little bit so people
understand how hormones work.
So women have two key.
There's a lot of other hormones, but two key.
Let's talk estrogen andprogesterone.
So estrogen starts to build atthe earlier part of the cycle.
It comes from the pituitarygland, hypothalamus, so what
(14:50):
it's doing is it's building upthe uterus, it's building up
blood flow in the preparationfor implantation of an egg.
So it's the holder honorhormone.
That's why ladies will feelpuffier, things will be more
swollen certain times of themonth.
So the body's holding on.
And then, once ovulation occurs, once the egg is released, the
(15:11):
outer part of the egg thenstarts to produce what's called
progesterone.
So progesterone is kind of likethis is a loose analogy, but
it's kind of like the female'stestosterone.
That's why a lot of women afterthe first trimester really feel
awesome because they have superhigh amounts of progesterone
which is created by the placenta, and so that's what's called
(15:32):
the secretory phase, so thateverything's metabolic, you're
burning lots of energy,everything's really good.
So what happens with menopauseis all of those things start to
reduce and they start to dropdown.
So if you think what estrogendoes is estrogen holds on, it
builds stuff up?
Well, let's think about it froma bladder or even a urethral
(15:54):
standpoint.
Is it's building up that tube?
It's building up endotheliallinings.
That means the lining of bloodvessels, the lining of a uterus,
the lining of a bladder.
So when those hormones reduce,is those linings become thinner.
So the integrity has to begreater, meaning other things
have to be stronger tocompensate, because the tissue
(16:16):
is not the same as it was before.
Does that make sense?
Yes, and then the progesteroneis the metabolic component.
So that's increasingmitochondria, that's increasing
energy.
Well, now we have less energy,we have tissue integrity.
That's not as great.
Therefore, if it was already onthe edge when you were 30, 35,
(16:39):
now of course there's less,that's holding back your bladder
.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right, okay, okay, good, good to know.
Let's go back to then thethings that I contribute to
urinary incontinence.
Let's talk about food, becauseI'm a nutritionist and I like to
talk about food, so let's talkabout that first.
What foods contribute to thisincontinence?
Are there things that we, aswomen, should avoid?
(17:06):
Are there foods that we shouldbe eating more of?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm going to step back a tiny bit.
If you break everything thatcrosses your lips into two
things, it either heals us or itdepletes us, right?
So most of the things now someare allergy-based, so they can
be good foods, but we'resensitive because of personal
constitutional issues, so let'sput those ones aside.
(17:32):
Most foods are either going tohelp us heal us or they're going
to deplete us.
So the depletion of foods aregoing to be anything that takes
resources away from us.
So let's just do a simplelittle assessment of a morning.
Okay, you've got a cup ofcoffee.
So first of all we're going tosee well, is there pesticides in
that coffee?
Is it organic or is it notorganic?
(17:53):
Okay, well, if it's laden withpesticides, well, that's very
depletionary.
So our liver's got a big job todo.
That's going to suck upresources.
Right Now we talk aboutcaffeine.
So caffeine is a stimulant.
So now you're adding in astimulant.
So if we look at the stressreaction in our body, is stress
causes everything to tighten andto hold on right?
(18:14):
Well, if you squeeze your fistfor seven hours, pretty soon
your hands are going to be sotired and so sore.
It's just going to startspontaneously releasing and
relaxing.
So a lot of people think thattheir bladder issues are because
their pelvis is too weak andthere might be some weakness
there, but because the stressresponse is they're actually too
(18:35):
tight all the time.
So what happens is the bodyfasciculates.
It's kind of like I'm holdingmy fist and I just need a break
and then you distract me and Ilet go.
Well, I'm holding my bladderand then something comes up and
I can't consciously hold it, soI let go and then I start to
leak.
So caffeine is going tostimulate that even more.
So it's going to causesomething under stress to be
(18:57):
more stressed.
Okay, then we look at thingslike it's pretty popular for
people to drink those thingscalled bubble waters, like
LaCroix's and things like that,which is carbonation.
So carbonation changes the pHof the GI, but it can also be an
irritant to linings.
Now we look at other things.
(19:17):
Okay, well, what do vegetablesdo?
It changes the pH of the GI,but it can also be an irritant
to linings.
Now we look at other things.
Okay, well, what do vegetablesdo?
Well, vegetables tend to haveantioxidants.
What do antioxidants do?
Well, they're going to helpreduce free radicals, which
create irritation to tissues andblood vessels and also to
linings right Is healthyproteins.
If our GI tract is intact, we'regoing to be absorbing proteins
and, let's say, healthy fatsthat are going to help build us.
(19:39):
So foods are really breakingdown, as do I want to build
myself up.
I need healthy protein, healthyfat, vegetables, antioxidants,
vitamins, minerals.
Things that deplete us aregoing to be the hydrogenated
fatty acids, which is, you know,most fast food stuff, most
packaged foods, then thecolorants, the preservatives all
(20:00):
those things take from ourbodies.
So if we're already stressedand depleted, we're stressing
and depleting our body moreversus giving it a buildup.
So I like to think of it like abrick, like a brick layer.
If I want to build a castle, Ineed some good materials.
Well, your body's an amazingcastle, so materials you give it
(20:20):
are going to help support it.
If you deplete it with otherstuff, then it's going to make
it weaker and it's going tobecome worse.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Okay, good point, I mean, so it's so.
It's just another reason to upyour nutrition game right and
really focus on the healthiestfats, proteins, whole grains,
probably.
What about?
You didn't really mention fiberor like your GI health, because
I know you said that before.
Is that an important part ofbladder health?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, because I didn't say it doesn't mean it's
unimportant, so thanks forgrabbing me on that, but
absolutely is.
You're looking at insoluble,insoluble fiber, so insoluble,
insoluble fiber, so insoluble.
I think of it like an SOS padalong our lining.
It's trying to get rid of thejunk that's building up.
And then soluble fiber is notonly going to give great
nutrients for good bacteria togrow and remember bacteria
(21:13):
they're growing and they'reproducing byproducts that
actually help our brain and ourstress levels.
So they're called commensalbacteria or probiotics of
different sorts.
So you need those things todevelop and also to keep things
moving and pressing through.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So one of the obvious things I think that we haven't
talked about is probablydrinking more water, but is more
water too much, is it like, youknow?
Is how much water should we bedrinking?
Because I know that this is aquestion people ask me all the
time, and what's your opinion onit?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So my first we need hydration, no matter what, and
hydration doesn't constitutecoffee, beer, wine, all those
other things that we like tohydrate with, because they're
not really hydrating.
So water means water.
I generally tell people halftheir body weight in ounces and
there's no hard evidence orrules on that, but to me it just
(22:08):
makes sense.
So if you're physically active,you definitely need more.
If you're less active you canprefer, but I found that most
people just don't drink enoughwater at all.
So if we look at just simplechemistry again, is the higher
the concentration is ofsomething, the more challenging
it can be.
When you dilute something itbecomes less, so it's less of a
(22:30):
stressor and so better water.
Now I don't encourage people todrink a lot of water when
they're consuming food, becausewhen you dilute those stomach
acids and you dilute those,those digestive enzymes, they're
less effective.
Drink less water.
(22:59):
Two more, because as you chewyou're putting saliva in there
which is full of enzymes for alot of different things.
Plus, it's getting the GI tractgoing.
If you're going to drink, youshould drink it later, because a
lot of people drink a lot ofwater because they're deficient
in other things or they haveother GI issues that they're
compensating for.
So they have to diluteeverything to push it through
the whole tract, especially whenit comes to the GERD and things
(23:21):
like that, which is like areflux issue.
So the key is is drink morewater, yes, but less water
during meals.
Chew more.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay, good point.
I also know that I would.
I've been well, I've always hada this belief that if I drink
more water during the day, thenI'm just going to have to keep
going to the bathroom and andsometimes I do, but I'll I mean
also I what I do now in themorning.
I'm a tea drinker, so even.
But just that one cup of teawith the caffeine, I think, gets
(23:54):
my bladder like going, and Iand I try to drink a big glass
of water before I have my tea.
I always thought that was goingto then make me pee extra, you
know, like even double time, butit actually is, I think,
diluting the caffeine and soit's not making me go to the
bathroom anymore than I wasbefore.
(24:16):
Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It does.
But something else that youmight consider, heather, just in
general, is a lot of peoplethink tea is great because it's
natural which it is but tea hastannins, and if everyone
remembers what tannins are,tannins are found in the skins
and leaves and stems of thingsis.
Tannins break down mucus andthey irritate linings, and so
(24:41):
the next time you have your tea,notice how your tongue feels,
it'll be a little rough.
That's because it's mucolytic.
It actually breaks down themucus and mucus is a protector,
and so I would speculate thatit's more likely diluting the
tannins and it's diluting someof the irritation and it's
diluting some of the caffeinealso.
So just a side note, becausethat's one of the things that we
(25:05):
talk to people about in ourprogram is you want to watch the
teas?
Just because it came from aflower or a leaf doesn't mean it
doesn't have an impact on your,your GI tract, but, but more
importantly, your bladder andyour urethral linings, which is
what we're trying to find abalance to.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
That's a good point.
The reason I do drink tea isbecause I'm so sensitive to
caffeine that it's like thehappy medium for me.
I couldn't drink a cup ofcoffee first thing in the
morning, it would be too much.
So tea is my happy medium.
But I didn't consider that thetannins could be irritants also.
So good to know.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, I bet you'll find just a little.
And it doesn't mean like a lotof people get really defensive
Like I have to stop tea andthat's.
You don't have to do anythingbut play with it and see and see
how you feel, or eventransition to say, oh, I'm going
to try a different herbal teainstead of a black or a green
tea, because black tea hashigher tannins because it's
fermented.
Green tea has less tannins.
(26:08):
And then herbals some have alittle more, some have a little
less, so just playing with thatis kind of a neat experiment,
because I like to make it moreof like I'm discovering things
about myself, versus I can't dothis and now I'm really PO'd and
I want to do something else.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Right.
Okay, well, good to consider, Iwill definitely keep that in
mind, because I am a big teadrinker.
So the last thing I just wantedto ask about in the world of
like food is alcohol.
So I, I, I mean I know when I Idon't drink anymore.
(26:43):
When I used to drink, alcoholwas like a total bladder killer.
I mean I feel like it just likeweakens your bladder.
What?
What's your thought on that?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
what?
What's your thought on that?
Well, I like to go back to justthe?
Um.
Anatomy is when you understand,alcohol causes things to relax
and let go, um, all sorts ofdifferent things obviously, but
um, it's doing no different.
So not only do you have thechanges in the kidney, because
alcohol will change your kidneyenzymes and such, which will
increase the amount of watercoming out of you, and that's
(27:21):
why people who overdrink aredehydrated in the next day.
So you've got that factor, butthen you also have the factor is
you're just reducing control,just why they say don't drink
and drive because your reactiontime is less.
Well, it's not just thereaction behind the steering
wheel, it's the reaction of yourbladder, it's a reaction of all
tissues.
It changes in heart rate, it'schanging in blood pressure, it's
(27:43):
changing in blood vesseldiameter.
So that's just adding fuel toan already present fire, an
already present fire.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Right.
Alcohol is one of those.
I mean nothing that we needright in our daily diet, nothing
that you need.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
but it also has a big influence on the liver.
And so, again, big picture isthe liver plays a big role in
this.
It has a big role in how weprocess hormones, it has a big
role in what comes out of ourstomach, small intestine and
bowel.
So when the liver functionisn't as efficient, of course
(28:20):
that's going to influence ourkey and I call it our
million-dollar problem, which ofcourse would be incontinence
because that's the one we dealwith most every day, day, and
that's front and center.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So right, yeah, Okay, okay.
So let's put food aside for aminute and let's talk about the
other, the other modalities thatyou work with to help women
with incontinence and bladderissues.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
So one of the biggest focal points is we talked
earlier about stress.
So people say, well, how do Imanage stress?
Well, the first thing you gotto do is just understand how
your body's in a reaction mode.
And so, instead of going andsaying, okay, well, I got to
change my job and I got tochange my spouse and I got to
change my kids, it's a matter ofhow do I start resetting,
(29:08):
because our body's a product ofall of these events over our
whole lifetime, and so we don'thave to go and dig out into the
cobwebs of every interaction.
But if we just start resettingour body, so one of the key
parts is what's called vagalnerve stimulation.
So, looking up the vagus nerve,if people like to Google things,
is you have two nervous systems.
(29:30):
You've got the sympathetic,that's the fight, flight,
protect, keep you from dyingtoday, all those things, and it
doesn't have to be real orperceived, it's all the same.
And then we have what's calledthe parasympathetic, that's the
healing, relaxing, restoringpart of our nervous systems, and
they're both part of us, and sowhich one is the most dominant?
(29:51):
And, as the old proverb goes,it's the one we feed.
So the most of us are busyfeeding the stress push, acquire
part.
So that's very sympathetic,stress fight, flight, dominant.
So the question is how do westart to undo that is,
stimulating our vagal nerve.
So how to do the vagal nervestimulation?
In our program we do it bystimulating a certain branch of
(30:15):
the vagus nerve on the ear it'sright on hippie top there is by
just doing specific breathingexercises and physically
actually stimulating that nerve.
When you do it system orsystematically, over time it's
going to start to increase itseffectiveness.
(30:35):
So you're going to notice thebody will start to relax, your
breathing will start to becomedeeper, your thoughts will start
to become less turning, yourshoulders will start to relax.
So when we do this in asystemic, regular interval, then
the body starts to go from thishigher level of stress to start
to going on a regular droppingdown.
(30:57):
And that's kind of the premisebehind meditation and humming
and drumming.
And there's all sorts ofdifferent methods to do that,
but I use the one which is adirect vagal nerve stimulation
point and it's extremelyeffective.
But, like anything is, you haveto do it regularly.
It's not a one and done like wealways want right.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Right.
So yeah, I was going to ask youwhat about meditating or just
deep breathing and, you know,just getting our nervous system
just calm down?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That sounds like what you're doing with the vagal
nerve is on that same path Onthat same, exactly, exactly the
same path, and so I'm using theone that's most kind of backed
on like the neurology andneuroanatomy.
But we know that meditation hasvalue, we know that singing on a
(31:48):
regular basis, just thevibration of the vocal cords
because the vagus nerve runs oneither side of your throat so
those things consistentlystimulate nerves that haven't
really been used.
So I use the analogy of when Itouch my funny bone, I can feel
it.
You know, light up my littlefinger.
If I don't touch it it doesn't.
So when I stimulate that nerveand I do it enough, my little
(32:11):
finger is going to feel buzzyfor a long period of time.
Well, any nerve is the same way.
So if you stimulate itregularly, then it's going to be
encouraged to functiondifferently in work and that's a
big key to just taking thosestress levels and dropping them.
And in our case, for the keypurpose to start to get that
bladder, that's, that clenchedfist, to start to relax and just
(32:34):
kind of be at ease, calm down,right.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay, got it.
Is there any place for Kegelsand all that traditional stuff
that we've been, as women,taught to use?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Absolutely.
So it goes back to pastconversations is a lot of people
are like if that isn't theanswer, then this must be and
the the real answer is they'reall pieces of the answer.
So let's just go back to theanatomy again.
We got 30 of that.
Nerve is controlled byconsciousness, by you actively
doing it.
Well, let's do the best we canwith that 30%.
(33:12):
So I developed a techniquecalled the squiggle, because,
remember, some women are tootight from scarring and trauma
or surgery or whatever.
Some have too much laxitybecause of hormone imbalances or
trauma.
There's a bunch of stuff.
So we want to do two things wewant to strengthen, but we also
want to stretch the perineum.
We want to gain flexibility inthere.
(33:32):
That to strengthen, but we alsowant to stretch the perineum,
we want to gain flexibility inthere.
That's where our program also.
We work on the muscles of theinner thigh, the adductors and
the abductors, because thosemuscles are attaching into the
pubic area and their tone has aninfluence on the tone of the
pelvis too.
So all of those tissues in thatregion are influencing the
(33:53):
uterus, the bladder, the vagina.
All those are kind of in thesame region and they have to be
addressed, but they're not allthe perfect answer, like we
mentioned before, so I'd say inor in some.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I mean, there's these three points right what you eat
, your food, what you take inthe mind-body connection or your
stress connection, and thenthis physical part Absolutely.
Anything else.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
No, those are the three main stressors of, maybe,
galactic radiation.
I'm just throwing that outthere to be fair, but those are
the three big ones that we'relooking at and that's also the
three big ones for most of theproblems that people experience
Heart disease, cancer, diabetes,whatever that might be.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
And you tell me about your program that you have that
addresses all of these things,because I think that this is
really almost groundbreaking.
I mean, if you went, you know,if you're having bladder issues,
then you what your firstthought would be to go to see a
urologist who would thenprescribe you probably some
medication.
I think most people don't wantto have to take a medication.
(35:10):
They don't have to have to takea medication.
They don't have to, and I don'teven know how effective that is
anyway, you know, to helpingthis bigger problem of
incontinence.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So tell me or tell us about your program that you
have.
Sure, so it's really based uponthose three things, heather, we
just talked about.
So, first of all is I can giveanybody information, so anyone
can go out, spend the hours ofresearching and they can come up
with all the stuff that I cameup with.
I'm not terribly special, Ijust had a lot of time of
studying and I've worked withmany patients over the years, so
, but I also know thatinformation and implementation
(35:49):
aren't the same thing, right?
So we all get information.
All the time it's like, oh,that's so cool, I should try
that, and you do it like once,and then you lose interest, or,
and you don't know if it's right, or Dr Oz says it, so you end
up buying it and now it's inyour cupboard, right, and you're
the self-assigned.
So I think the big thing aboutour program is I'm taking the
three facets the physical, whichwe're addressing via the
(36:11):
squiggle.
Then we've got the neurosomatic, which means the nerve and the
body connection, and we'readdressing that by retraining
the autonomic nervous system.
And then we next thing is andthis is where it's kind of cool
(36:32):
is we're leading people througha process over 30 days, and that
30 days first allows us acouple things.
It answers the questions and itstarts on a simple little
journey that takes three to fiveminutes a day.
But also in the program I'mholding them not so much
accountable, but we're meetingon a weekly basis as a group.
(36:53):
I'm saying hey, how's it going?
Do you have any questions?
Then each week I add in a newfacet.
So week one we're reallylearning about the nuts and the
bolts of those three factors.
And then week two, we'restarting to look into okay, how
do I start to make dietarychanges that are going to
influence not only my bladderbut my whole health, my whole
body?
Then the next module we'regoing to look into hormones.
(37:16):
Okay, let me understand howhormones work and how to affect
them.
What can I do to help my liverfunction so I don't have what
are called xenoestrogens, whichmeans estrogens that are
building up and negativelyaffecting me?
So we're kind of leading thisthrough a path of making goals,
learning.
And of course, in my experienceis once somebody has a little
(37:38):
success, then it encourages themto have take the next step
Right.
So it's kind of like somebodywho goes to the gym and they're
like hey, I lost three poundsand I'm not as pooped out at the
end of the day I'm going tokeep going.
And then they're like hey, Ilost a little more, I feel
stronger, I think I'm going toeat a little bit better.
So health is kind of aprogression, it's not like a
(37:58):
switch.
And that's one of the bigproblems that we have with
medication.
And I'm not against medicationwhen people understand what it's
for, because medication'sdesign is to treat a symptom.
It's not to make you healthy'sto treat a symptom.
So sometimes we needmedications to treat a symptom
in the short term.
But a medication can never makeus healthy, with the rare
(38:19):
exception of maybe we have aninfection that needs to be, you
know, eradicated.
So when we understand thatthere's no magical health pill,
there's only a healthprogression, then that's where
real success comes.
So the exciting part about thebladder is, yes, we have great
bladder results, but we alsohave really exciting results
where people become healthier,they feel better.
(38:41):
That inspires them to keepmoving forward versus I'm
frustrated, I'm going to takeanother pill, and I went on an
antidepressant and now I'm on aweight loss drug.
You just see how that builds upinto a big mess.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Right yeah.
So small steps, small goals andthen have other good
consequences, like maybe you'regetting healthier as a result of
eating better foods andswitching your diet, or just
calming yourself down right,addressing your parasympathetic
nervous system and it calmingyourself down right, addressing
your parasympathetic nervoussystem, and it reverberates
(39:17):
right Into other areas of yourlife.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
It does.
And one last thing I wanted tonote too and this is what I'm
super excited about is whenpeople first, a dialogue like
this is really cool, becausemost people think they're alone
with their problem, because theythink I'm the only one on the
world and again, it's notreality, but we all think that
way, we include it, so I'm theonly one with this problem.
(39:40):
Nobody really knows how I feel,but when you get involved in a
system like this is you get toconnect with other people and
that is hugely validating.
Like, oh, you mean you feltthat way or you mean this
happened to you, and it removesthat isolation part.
And what's really exciting is,as that isolation part starts to
dissolve, then people haveconversations like this and it
(40:01):
just branches out.
And then people start to reallynot to get all out there, but
they start to live the real life.
Instead of like I'm hiding, Ihave to protect, it's like, hey,
this used to be a part of me.
Now I can go do my thing and Ican share my story and I don't
have to feel bad about it.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I think for women especially ormaybe men too, but for women
community, I think is very, veryimportant to feel less alone
with some of these issues thatare embarrassing or shameful or
think that we should keep asecret, and I think that that is
(40:36):
a really important part ofhealing.
I agree 100% and you are havinga upcoming talk.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, so this Thursday that would be the 17th of April
at 8 pm, we're having a bladderand menopause seminar.
So we're going to have some ofthe similar discussions we had
today, but it's going to be alittle more formatted, with the
goal of helping peopleunderstand a little more in
depth their bladder, help themunderstand how hormones play a
(41:09):
role and then just giving theman opportunity to get started on
the iron clad bladder programif that's something they want to
do.
Great, so super excited.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, so you send me the link, I will put it in my
show notes so everyone could getthat, and that's just on Zoom.
That's how do you, how do youconnect with?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
that.
So if you go to my website,it's drnigelbrayercom, there's a
link there to sign up for thefree seminar and then, once
you're signed up, you'll get thefree, the link, the Zoom link,
and then it'll start at 8 pm onthe 17th Eastern Standard Time.
Eastern Standard Time.
Yes, thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Okay, okay, well, great, well again, I will put
all your links in the show notesso women can get access to that
, and I think we've covered alot about bladder and we're
dispelling the secrets and themyths around bladder issues,
urinary incontinence, continents, and that's that's what I
(42:11):
that's the whole goal of mypodcast too is just not have
these things be secrets and andfeeling like you are alone in
things.
So I appreciate all of yourinformation and I think this is
going to help a lot of women.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Thanks, heather.
I really appreciate you andputting up this platform for
others.
It's really awesome.
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast.
I always want to talk andaddress topics related to
women's nutrition and health,especially the ones that we feel
have to be kept secret becausewe are too afraid to talk about
them or even say them out loud.
So when I found Nigel Breyer, Iknew I had to have him on the
(00:21):
podcast, and let me tell you why.
Nigel Breyer is a chiropractorand a diplomate in acupuncture,
an expert in natural medicineand a women's urinary health
expert.
He developed the iron-cladbladder system, which is a
drug-free treatment for urinaryincontinence that combines
(00:44):
neurological insights withtraditional Chinese medicine,
helping numerous women findrelief from this condition.
Hi, nigel, welcome to the show.
I'm so happy to have you herebecause, okay, let's face it,
urinary and bladder issues forwomen are right up there with
talking about menopause andhormones.
There's a lot of mystery andthere is a decent amount of
(01:08):
shame and a feeling that this issomething we just have to live
with.
There's a lot of women I knowwho have bladder issues and
urinary incontinence, and mostof them, I imagine, are
struggling.
So I want to hear from you, asyou are the expert in this, what
exactly urinary incontinence is, how it's defined, why it
(01:30):
happens and is there a certainage?
And then, most importantly,what we can do about it.
So I want to ask you all thethings about everything, bladder
.
So why don't we just jump in,tell me your story, how you got
into this, and we'll go fromthere?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Great Thanks, heather .
This is a great pleasure andI'm super excited for our
conversation.
Well, let's get started.
I've been named the reluctantbladder doctor and I think I've
really embraced that termbecause it's absolutely true.
And I know Heather and I didn'tknow about it for many, many
months and it took some probingand digging and probably even
(02:36):
some pestering for her tofinally share with me what was
going on.
And being in the healthcarefield is, again, I had my
specialty at that time and itwasn't incontinence.
So through our journey andpeople can read about it on our
website if they like but throughour journey is we found that
there's really no good options.
(02:57):
There's some options but noneof them are that great,
especially in the natural healthfield for incontinence the
typical pathways like pelvicfloor therapy and Kegels and
stuff.
They have some value but theyjust didn't show the results
that we're looking for.
So because of that experienceand really how it affected my
(03:19):
wife and I's relationship, justin terms of activity of our
family and her ability to traveland hike and run and all those
things that she enjoyed, reallycame to a halt.
So there's a lot of facets thatcome up with.
That is, you know, why didn'tmy wife want to share with me
right off the bat?
And of course that led me tothe understanding that this is
(03:41):
an extremely patchy subject anda lot of people have a lot of of
um I'll call it baggage behindit, and again, I'm not an expert
on that at all, but I canspeculate that there's just a
lot of self-worth that goes intothat.
That condition is is when welose our ability to control our
bladder is we have a lot ofdoubts of us as a human, as a
(04:04):
parent, as a.
If I can't do this, well, Imustn't be that Like.
There's just a lot of differentpathways our minds go.
So it really helped meunderstand, I guess, where a lot
of people are coming from.
But then it also led me on thismission to say, okay, well,
I've been in the natural healthfield for 28 years.
Mission to say, okay, well,I've been in the natural health
(04:26):
field for 28 years, the body'sdesigned to heal is there.
So it pushed me to look at,well, what are the key barriers
that keep most conditions fromresolving themselves?
So that's kind of led me onthat pathway and that's where
the program started from.
So I know I kind of gave you alot of information there, but I
was trying to summarize as bestI can.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I know.
I mean now I have morequestions from that, you know,
because I want to know what thestatistics are, if you know this
, of women who are sufferingfrom urinary incontinence and
bladder issues.
And I think that there's atleast I've had this belief that
(05:05):
you know I had a twin pregnancyand then I had another one right
very quickly after that and mybladder was just like blown and
I feel like it's just somethingthat you have a pregnancy and
then you have to like live with,like bladder issues, like
there's this like underlyingbelief that you know these
things happen to women and thenyou have to like live with these
(05:30):
other conditions.
So let's just start what arethe statistics for women with
bladder issues?
And also, I want to maybe backup just a little bit more what
exactly is urinary incontinence?
Because we're using, you know,like maybe bigger words that
people might not understand.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Sure, let's define that first.
So urinary incontinence isbroken up into really two
categories.
There's urge incontinence isone, and there's stress
incontinence, which is the other, and most of them go together.
But let's talk aboutincontinence.
So incontinence means theinability to have full control
(06:08):
of your urinary bladder.
So, to make it simple, is youpee your pants for various
reasons and you can't seem tostop it, and there's various
degrees of.
Some people have no ability,control at all.
Some have ability, but whenthey're under mental stress or
they're thinking about going tothe bathroom, they start to leak
(06:28):
because the bladder or thevalve starts to what's called
fasciculate, which kind of meansquiver.
And then there's some thatbecause of like you experienced,
heather, there's physicaltrauma.
So what I like to do for peopleis help them understand the
bladders.
Think of it like a balloon witha straw stuck in it, or a straw
(06:50):
stuck where you'd blow it up Nowobviously a male's urethra, so
you think of the straw as longerthe lady's is shorter, so hers
is about an inch long, and menhave a valve which is called a
sphincter, one at the neck,that's right where the straw
would meet the balloon, andright at the end, and that's
called the external sphincterthe ladies is all together.
(07:12):
So there's approximately aninch of a valve that's
controlled.
And this is what's reallycurious is 70% of that valve is
what's called autonomicallycontrolled.
Autonomic means unconscious,kind of like your heart's
beating, your food's digesting.
Those are happening withoutyour necessarily consent.
(07:33):
It's happening in the back partof the brain that's running you
, and the 30% is consciouslycontrolled.
And so what that means is whenyou're doing a Kegel or you're
doing a pelvic floor work, isyou're really addressing only
30% of that control of the valve?
So, as you look deeper, thatbegs the question well, how do
(07:56):
you gain control of that other70%?
And that's what's sointeresting about that valve
itself is it's a product of allof your experiences together.
So I don't want to go too fardown the rabbit hole here.
But as we think of us as aculture, we're highly stressed,
we're highly motivated, we'rehighly scheduled, we're highly
everything, and that affectsevery single part of us.
(08:20):
It affects our blood pressure,it affects our heart rate, it
affects our digestion, ourthinking pattern.
Well, it it affects our bloodpressure, it affects our heart
rate, it affects our digestion,our thinking pattern.
Well, it also affects ourbladder.
So one of the big, I guess,epiphanies that I had as I was
doing my research and studying,and such is, I thought to myself
, if I have a way to influencethe autonomic nervous system, I
(08:44):
can start to have a much betterimpact on that valve instead of
just the Kegels, which is purely, you know, physical, strength
conscious, if I can startinfluencing that, which means I
now have to start addressingbigger issues.
I have to address the autonomicnervous system, I have to
address the underlying stressors.
(09:05):
And this goes back to yourearlier question is well, what
are the causes?
Well, there's no one cause.
Childbirth is certainly aphysical event, and then twins,
that's even a more physicalevent.
So there's a physical component, but then there's also a
nutritional, chemical, hormonalcomponent.
What you eat, food is chemicals,it's biochemistry, right.
(09:26):
So the foods that we put intoour body, our bacterial growth
in our GI tract, they'recreating different byproducts
that either help us or hurt us.
Then we also have our mental,emotional.
So there's really three bigcomponents it's the physical,
the nutritional, chemical,hormonal, which obviously when
ladies change their hormoneschange with menstruation or with
(09:48):
menopause that's going toinfluence these same tissues
we're talking about.
But then we also talk about themental stressors.
So the big picture is you haveto address all of them a little
bit.
There's no like, and I'm nodifferent than anyone else.
If there was a one hit wonderwonder, I'd be all over it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Let's do this one thing like yeah, because I'm
sorry to interrupt you, but Iknow that you know me growing up
over the years like the onething the only thing that I had
ever heard about was doingkegels.
Right, it was just make sureyou're like squeezing and like
doing, like doing these liketightening, and never was there
(10:25):
any connection between yournervous system, what you ate,
how you know your gut, you knowhealth.
I'm sure any any of this mental.
So I want to, definitely I wantto like address each of these
because I think that they doplay a huge role.
I mean, I know that they do andyou know role.
I mean I know that they do andyou know that too.
(10:46):
But let me just, are there anystatistics for you know, for
women Like?
I mean?
Because sometimes I see womenlike I know for me, like there
are certain foods we'll get intothe foods but that are kind of
like trigger my bladder, youknow, and and I see women who
just seem like they don't like.
(11:07):
If I drink coffee, for examplewhich I'm not a huge, I'm not a
big coffee drinker but caffeineI think like triggers my bladder
to like have to, you know, likego more and everything.
And I see some women just liketaking like a five mile walk
with like a cup of coffee intheir hand.
I'm like, how are you doingthat?
You know so.
So I think there's probablywomen who don't get affected by
(11:29):
bladder issues.
But what?
What are the statistics?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Sure.
So if you look at all women,just you know of an adult age
group, one in three women.
So 33% of all women areaffected.
Now, one in three women, so 33%of all women are affected.
Now, when you change the time,the age factor, when we look
over ladies over the age of 35to 45, around 50% have some
(11:53):
degree Okay, and again it's allvaried.
And we look at women over 50 to55, we're talking almost 70%.
So again there's definitely atime component.
So we talk about hormones.
We talk about how hormonesaffect tissue as the tissue
integrity changes, things thatmight have been more easily
(12:13):
managed.
Younger, because elastin isreduced.
Elastin is what giveseverything bounce and
flexibility as we're younger.
So tissue changes increase,something that was already there
younger, okay.
And then back to your earlier umobservation about the lady
drinking coffee and you know,taking a long walk is I like to
(12:34):
think about the three stressorsas a bucket and so, and you can
draw, imagine a bucket full ofwater and you can draw a line on
that bucket anywhere you want.
I like to call that theconstitutional marker.
So we all have differentconstitutions.
You know, you can handle moreof this, I can handle more of
that, less of this, less of that, and we all have that.
(12:56):
But all stressors affect all ofus.
But where that threshold is iskind of a factor of a whole
bunch of different things.
It's a factor of some genetics,it's a factor of our general
dietary habits, it's a factor ofour mental you know fortitude.
All these things are affectingus.
But the big picture is iseventually everything affects
(13:20):
everybody.
It's just how much of thebucket?
And a perfect example, just toyou know, divergent is.
I hear this with patients allthe time.
I never had allergies until Iturned 40.
How come?
Well, you were sensitive whenyou were 20, but your stress
load got to a point where yourbody can't manage that stressor
(13:40):
anymore.
And now you start to havesymptoms.
And that's very similar toanything.
The bladder is no exception Ishey, once I had my third child,
everything went to pieces.
Or I was fine after this andthen this happened, or I got a
flu and then all this happened.
Those are just stressors, thatkind of push that little marker
(14:01):
over the edge and then a symptomappears, but it usually happens
long before that.
On the um, subtle level, shallwe say yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Uh, so you mentioned hormones.
You said that when women turn50, right and older than like
the statistics the incidencereally goes up.
And you mentioned hormones, andis there an estrogen menopausal
connection to bladder issues?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So let's just kind of digress a little bit so people
understand how hormones work.
So women have two key.
There's a lot of other hormones, but two key.
Let's talk estrogen andprogesterone.
So estrogen starts to build atthe earlier part of the cycle.
It comes from the pituitarygland, hypothalamus, so what
(14:50):
it's doing is it's building upthe uterus, it's building up
blood flow in the preparationfor implantation of an egg.
So it's the holder honorhormone.
That's why ladies will feelpuffier, things will be more
swollen certain times of themonth.
So the body's holding on.
And then, once ovulation occurs, once the egg is released, the
(15:11):
outer part of the egg thenstarts to produce what's called
progesterone.
So progesterone is kind of likethis is a loose analogy, but
it's kind of like the female'stestosterone.
That's why a lot of women afterthe first trimester really feel
awesome because they have superhigh amounts of progesterone
which is created by the placenta, and so that's what's called
(15:32):
the secretory phase, so thateverything's metabolic, you're
burning lots of energy,everything's really good.
So what happens with menopauseis all of those things start to
reduce and they start to dropdown.
So if you think what estrogendoes is estrogen holds on, it
builds stuff up?
Well, let's think about it froma bladder or even a urethral
(15:54):
standpoint.
Is it's building up that tube?
It's building up endotheliallinings.
That means the lining of bloodvessels, the lining of a uterus,
the lining of a bladder.
So when those hormones reduce,is those linings become thinner.
So the integrity has to begreater, meaning other things
have to be stronger tocompensate, because the tissue
(16:16):
is not the same as it was before.
Does that make sense?
Yes, and then the progesteroneis the metabolic component.
So that's increasingmitochondria, that's increasing
energy.
Well, now we have less energy,we have tissue integrity.
That's not as great.
Therefore, if it was already onthe edge when you were 30, 35,
(16:39):
now of course there's less,that's holding back your bladder
.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right, okay, okay, good, good to know.
Let's go back to then thethings that I contribute to
urinary incontinence.
Let's talk about food, becauseI'm a nutritionist and I like to
talk about food, so let's talkabout that first.
What foods contribute to thisincontinence?
Are there things that we, aswomen, should avoid?
(17:06):
Are there foods that we shouldbe eating more of?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm going to step back a tiny bit.
If you break everything thatcrosses your lips into two
things, it either heals us or itdepletes us, right?
So most of the things now someare allergy-based, so they can
be good foods, but we'resensitive because of personal
constitutional issues, so let'sput those ones aside.
(17:32):
Most foods are either going tohelp us heal us or they're going
to deplete us.
So the depletion of foods aregoing to be anything that takes
resources away from us.
So let's just do a simplelittle assessment of a morning.
Okay, you've got a cup ofcoffee.
So first of all we're going tosee well, is there pesticides in
that coffee?
Is it organic or is it notorganic?
(17:53):
Okay, well, if it's laden withpesticides, well, that's very
depletionary.
So our liver's got a big job todo.
That's going to suck upresources.
Right Now we talk aboutcaffeine.
So caffeine is a stimulant.
So now you're adding in astimulant.
So if we look at the stressreaction in our body, is stress
causes everything to tighten andto hold on right?
(18:14):
Well, if you squeeze your fistfor seven hours, pretty soon
your hands are going to be sotired and so sore.
It's just going to startspontaneously releasing and
relaxing.
So a lot of people think thattheir bladder issues are because
their pelvis is too weak andthere might be some weakness
there, but because the stressresponse is they're actually too
(18:35):
tight all the time.
So what happens is the bodyfasciculates.
It's kind of like I'm holdingmy fist and I just need a break
and then you distract me and Ilet go.
Well, I'm holding my bladderand then something comes up and
I can't consciously hold it, soI let go and then I start to
leak.
So caffeine is going tostimulate that even more.
So it's going to causesomething under stress to be
(18:57):
more stressed.
Okay, then we look at thingslike it's pretty popular for
people to drink those thingscalled bubble waters, like
LaCroix's and things like that,which is carbonation.
So carbonation changes the pHof the GI, but it can also be an
irritant to linings.
Now we look at other things.
(19:17):
Okay, well, what do vegetablesdo?
It changes the pH of the GI,but it can also be an irritant
to linings.
Now we look at other things.
Okay, well, what do vegetablesdo?
Well, vegetables tend to haveantioxidants.
What do antioxidants do?
Well, they're going to helpreduce free radicals, which
create irritation to tissues andblood vessels and also to
linings right Is healthyproteins.
If our GI tract is intact, we'regoing to be absorbing proteins
and, let's say, healthy fatsthat are going to help build us.
(19:39):
So foods are really breakingdown, as do I want to build
myself up.
I need healthy protein, healthyfat, vegetables, antioxidants,
vitamins, minerals.
Things that deplete us aregoing to be the hydrogenated
fatty acids, which is, you know,most fast food stuff, most
packaged foods, then thecolorants, the preservatives all
(20:00):
those things take from ourbodies.
So if we're already stressedand depleted, we're stressing
and depleting our body moreversus giving it a buildup.
So I like to think of it like abrick, like a brick layer.
If I want to build a castle, Ineed some good materials.
Well, your body's an amazingcastle, so materials you give it
(20:20):
are going to help support it.
If you deplete it with otherstuff, then it's going to make
it weaker and it's going tobecome worse.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Okay, good point, I mean, so it's so.
It's just another reason to upyour nutrition game right and
really focus on the healthiestfats, proteins, whole grains,
probably.
What about?
You didn't really mention fiberor like your GI health, because
I know you said that before.
Is that an important part ofbladder health?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, because I didn't say it doesn't mean it's
unimportant, so thanks forgrabbing me on that, but
absolutely is.
You're looking at insoluble,insoluble fiber, so insoluble,
insoluble fiber, so insoluble.
I think of it like an SOS padalong our lining.
It's trying to get rid of thejunk that's building up.
And then soluble fiber is notonly going to give great
nutrients for good bacteria togrow and remember bacteria
(21:13):
they're growing and they'reproducing byproducts that
actually help our brain and ourstress levels.
So they're called commensalbacteria or probiotics of
different sorts.
So you need those things todevelop and also to keep things
moving and pressing through.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So one of the obvious things I think that we haven't
talked about is probablydrinking more water, but is more
water too much, is it like, youknow?
Is how much water should we bedrinking?
Because I know that this is aquestion people ask me all the
time, and what's your opinion onit?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So my first we need hydration, no matter what, and
hydration doesn't constitutecoffee, beer, wine, all those
other things that we like tohydrate with, because they're
not really hydrating.
So water means water.
I generally tell people halftheir body weight in ounces and
there's no hard evidence orrules on that, but to me it just
(22:08):
makes sense.
So if you're physically active,you definitely need more.
If you're less active you canprefer, but I found that most
people just don't drink enoughwater at all.
So if we look at just simplechemistry again, is the higher
the concentration is ofsomething, the more challenging
it can be.
When you dilute something itbecomes less, so it's less of a
(22:30):
stressor and so better water.
Now I don't encourage people todrink a lot of water when
they're consuming food, becausewhen you dilute those stomach
acids and you dilute those,those digestive enzymes, they're
less effective.
Drink less water.
(22:59):
Two more, because as you chewyou're putting saliva in there
which is full of enzymes for alot of different things.
Plus, it's getting the GI tractgoing.
If you're going to drink, youshould drink it later, because a
lot of people drink a lot ofwater because they're deficient
in other things or they haveother GI issues that they're
compensating for.
So they have to diluteeverything to push it through
the whole tract, especially whenit comes to the GERD and things
(23:21):
like that, which is like areflux issue.
So the key is is drink morewater, yes, but less water
during meals.
Chew more.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay, good point.
I also know that I would.
I've been well, I've always hada this belief that if I drink
more water during the day, thenI'm just going to have to keep
going to the bathroom and andsometimes I do, but I'll I mean
also I what I do now in themorning.
I'm a tea drinker, so even.
But just that one cup of teawith the caffeine, I think, gets
(23:54):
my bladder like going, and Iand I try to drink a big glass
of water before I have my tea.
I always thought that was goingto then make me pee extra, you
know, like even double time, butit actually is, I think,
diluting the caffeine and soit's not making me go to the
bathroom anymore than I wasbefore.
(24:16):
Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It does.
But something else that youmight consider, heather, just in
general, is a lot of peoplethink tea is great because it's
natural which it is but tea hastannins, and if everyone
remembers what tannins are,tannins are found in the skins
and leaves and stems of thingsis.
Tannins break down mucus andthey irritate linings, and so
(24:41):
the next time you have your tea,notice how your tongue feels,
it'll be a little rough.
That's because it's mucolytic.
It actually breaks down themucus and mucus is a protector,
and so I would speculate thatit's more likely diluting the
tannins and it's diluting someof the irritation and it's
diluting some of the caffeinealso.
So just a side note, becausethat's one of the things that we
(25:05):
talk to people about in ourprogram is you want to watch the
teas?
Just because it came from aflower or a leaf doesn't mean it
doesn't have an impact on your,your GI tract, but, but more
importantly, your bladder andyour urethral linings, which is
what we're trying to find abalance to.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
That's a good point.
The reason I do drink tea isbecause I'm so sensitive to
caffeine that it's like thehappy medium for me.
I couldn't drink a cup ofcoffee first thing in the
morning, it would be too much.
So tea is my happy medium.
But I didn't consider that thetannins could be irritants also.
So good to know.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, I bet you'll find just a little.
And it doesn't mean like a lotof people get really defensive
Like I have to stop tea andthat's.
You don't have to do anythingbut play with it and see and see
how you feel, or eventransition to say, oh, I'm going
to try a different herbal teainstead of a black or a green
tea, because black tea hashigher tannins because it's
fermented.
Green tea has less tannins.
(26:08):
And then herbals some have alittle more, some have a little
less, so just playing with thatis kind of a neat experiment,
because I like to make it moreof like I'm discovering things
about myself, versus I can't dothis and now I'm really PO'd and
I want to do something else.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Right.
Okay, well, good to consider, Iwill definitely keep that in
mind, because I am a big teadrinker.
So the last thing I just wantedto ask about in the world of
like food is alcohol.
So I, I, I mean I know when I Idon't drink anymore.
(26:43):
When I used to drink, alcoholwas like a total bladder killer.
I mean I feel like it just likeweakens your bladder.
What?
What's your thought on that?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
what?
What's your thought on that?
Well, I like to go back to justthe?
Um.
Anatomy is when you understand,alcohol causes things to relax
and let go, um, all sorts ofdifferent things obviously, but
um, it's doing no different.
So not only do you have thechanges in the kidney, because
alcohol will change your kidneyenzymes and such, which will
increase the amount of watercoming out of you, and that's
(27:21):
why people who overdrink aredehydrated in the next day.
So you've got that factor, butthen you also have the factor is
you're just reducing control,just why they say don't drink
and drive because your reactiontime is less.
Well, it's not just thereaction behind the steering
wheel, it's the reaction of yourbladder, it's a reaction of all
tissues.
It changes in heart rate, it'schanging in blood pressure, it's
(27:43):
changing in blood vesseldiameter.
So that's just adding fuel toan already present fire, an
already present fire.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Right.
Alcohol is one of those.
I mean nothing that we needright in our daily diet, nothing
that you need.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
but it also has a big influence on the liver.
And so, again, big picture isthe liver plays a big role in
this.
It has a big role in how weprocess hormones, it has a big
role in what comes out of ourstomach, small intestine and
bowel.
So when the liver functionisn't as efficient, of course
(28:20):
that's going to influence ourkey and I call it our
million-dollar problem, which ofcourse would be incontinence
because that's the one we dealwith most every day, day, and
that's front and center.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So right, yeah, Okay, okay.
So let's put food aside for aminute and let's talk about the
other, the other modalities thatyou work with to help women
with incontinence and bladderissues.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
So one of the biggest focal points is we talked
earlier about stress.
So people say, well, how do Imanage stress?
Well, the first thing you gotto do is just understand how
your body's in a reaction mode.
And so, instead of going andsaying, okay, well, I got to
change my job and I got tochange my spouse and I got to
change my kids, it's a matter ofhow do I start resetting,
(29:08):
because our body's a product ofall of these events over our
whole lifetime, and so we don'thave to go and dig out into the
cobwebs of every interaction.
But if we just start resettingour body, so one of the key
parts is what's called vagalnerve stimulation.
So, looking up the vagus nerve,if people like to Google things,
is you have two nervous systems.
(29:30):
You've got the sympathetic,that's the fight, flight,
protect, keep you from dyingtoday, all those things, and it
doesn't have to be real orperceived, it's all the same.
And then we have what's calledthe parasympathetic, that's the
healing, relaxing, restoringpart of our nervous systems, and
they're both part of us, and sowhich one is the most dominant?
(29:51):
And, as the old proverb goes,it's the one we feed.
So the most of us are busyfeeding the stress push, acquire
part.
So that's very sympathetic,stress fight, flight, dominant.
So the question is how do westart to undo that is,
stimulating our vagal nerve.
So how to do the vagal nervestimulation?
In our program we do it bystimulating a certain branch of
(30:15):
the vagus nerve on the ear it'sright on hippie top there is by
just doing specific breathingexercises and physically
actually stimulating that nerve.
When you do it system orsystematically, over time it's
going to start to increase itseffectiveness.
(30:35):
So you're going to notice thebody will start to relax, your
breathing will start to becomedeeper, your thoughts will start
to become less turning, yourshoulders will start to relax.
So when we do this in asystemic, regular interval, then
the body starts to go from thishigher level of stress to start
to going on a regular droppingdown.
(30:57):
And that's kind of the premisebehind meditation and humming
and drumming.
And there's all sorts ofdifferent methods to do that,
but I use the one which is adirect vagal nerve stimulation
point and it's extremelyeffective.
But, like anything is, you haveto do it regularly.
It's not a one and done like wealways want right.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Right.
So yeah, I was going to ask youwhat about meditating or just
deep breathing and, you know,just getting our nervous system
just calm down?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That sounds like what you're doing with the vagal
nerve is on that same path Onthat same, exactly, exactly the
same path, and so I'm using theone that's most kind of backed
on like the neurology andneuroanatomy.
But we know that meditation hasvalue, we know that singing on a
(31:48):
regular basis, just thevibration of the vocal cords
because the vagus nerve runs oneither side of your throat so
those things consistentlystimulate nerves that haven't
really been used.
So I use the analogy of when Itouch my funny bone, I can feel
it.
You know, light up my littlefinger.
If I don't touch it it doesn't.
So when I stimulate that nerveand I do it enough, my little
(32:11):
finger is going to feel buzzyfor a long period of time.
Well, any nerve is the same way.
So if you stimulate itregularly, then it's going to be
encouraged to functiondifferently in work and that's a
big key to just taking thosestress levels and dropping them.
And in our case, for the keypurpose to start to get that
bladder, that's, that clenchedfist, to start to relax and just
(32:34):
kind of be at ease, calm down,right.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay, got it.
Is there any place for Kegelsand all that traditional stuff
that we've been, as women,taught to use?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Absolutely.
So it goes back to pastconversations is a lot of people
are like if that isn't theanswer, then this must be and
the the real answer is they'reall pieces of the answer.
So let's just go back to theanatomy again.
We got 30 of that.
Nerve is controlled byconsciousness, by you actively
doing it.
Well, let's do the best we canwith that 30%.
(33:12):
So I developed a techniquecalled the squiggle, because,
remember, some women are tootight from scarring and trauma
or surgery or whatever.
Some have too much laxitybecause of hormone imbalances or
trauma.
There's a bunch of stuff.
So we want to do two things wewant to strengthen, but we also
want to stretch the perineum.
We want to gain flexibility inthere.
(33:32):
That to strengthen, but we alsowant to stretch the perineum,
we want to gain flexibility inthere.
That's where our program also.
We work on the muscles of theinner thigh, the adductors and
the abductors, because thosemuscles are attaching into the
pubic area and their tone has aninfluence on the tone of the
pelvis too.
So all of those tissues in thatregion are influencing the
(33:53):
uterus, the bladder, the vagina.
All those are kind of in thesame region and they have to be
addressed, but they're not allthe perfect answer, like we
mentioned before, so I'd say inor in some.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I mean, there's these three points right what you eat
, your food, what you take inthe mind-body connection or your
stress connection, and thenthis physical part Absolutely.
Anything else.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
No, those are the three main stressors of, maybe,
galactic radiation.
I'm just throwing that outthere to be fair, but those are
the three big ones that we'relooking at and that's also the
three big ones for most of theproblems that people experience
Heart disease, cancer, diabetes,whatever that might be.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
And you tell me about your program that you have that
addresses all of these things,because I think that this is
really almost groundbreaking.
I mean, if you went, you know,if you're having bladder issues,
then you what your firstthought would be to go to see a
urologist who would thenprescribe you probably some
medication.
I think most people don't wantto have to take a medication.
(35:10):
They don't have to have to takea medication.
They don't have to, and I don'teven know how effective that is
anyway, you know, to helpingthis bigger problem of
incontinence.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So tell me or tell us about your program that you
have.
Sure, so it's really based uponthose three things, heather, we
just talked about.
So, first of all is I can giveanybody information, so anyone
can go out, spend the hours ofresearching and they can come up
with all the stuff that I cameup with.
I'm not terribly special, Ijust had a lot of time of
studying and I've worked withmany patients over the years, so
, but I also know thatinformation and implementation
(35:49):
aren't the same thing, right?
So we all get information.
All the time it's like, oh,that's so cool, I should try
that, and you do it like once,and then you lose interest, or,
and you don't know if it's right, or Dr Oz says it, so you end
up buying it and now it's inyour cupboard, right, and you're
the self-assigned.
So I think the big thing aboutour program is I'm taking the
three facets the physical, whichwe're addressing via the
(36:11):
squiggle.
Then we've got the neurosomatic, which means the nerve and the
body connection, and we'readdressing that by retraining
the autonomic nervous system.
And then we next thing is andthis is where it's kind of cool
(36:32):
is we're leading people througha process over 30 days, and that
30 days first allows us acouple things.
It answers the questions and itstarts on a simple little
journey that takes three to fiveminutes a day.
But also in the program I'mholding them not so much
accountable, but we're meetingon a weekly basis as a group.
(36:53):
I'm saying hey, how's it going?
Do you have any questions?
Then each week I add in a newfacet.
So week one we're reallylearning about the nuts and the
bolts of those three factors.
And then week two, we'restarting to look into okay, how
do I start to make dietarychanges that are going to
influence not only my bladderbut my whole health, my whole
body?
Then the next module we'regoing to look into hormones.
(37:16):
Okay, let me understand howhormones work and how to affect
them.
What can I do to help my liverfunction so I don't have what
are called xenoestrogens, whichmeans estrogens that are
building up and negativelyaffecting me?
So we're kind of leading thisthrough a path of making goals,
learning.
And of course, in my experienceis once somebody has a little
(37:38):
success, then it encourages themto have take the next step
Right.
So it's kind of like somebodywho goes to the gym and they're
like hey, I lost three poundsand I'm not as pooped out at the
end of the day I'm going tokeep going.
And then they're like hey, Ilost a little more, I feel
stronger, I think I'm going toeat a little bit better.
So health is kind of aprogression, it's not like a
(37:58):
switch.
And that's one of the bigproblems that we have with
medication.
And I'm not against medicationwhen people understand what it's
for, because medication'sdesign is to treat a symptom.
It's not to make you healthy'sto treat a symptom.
So sometimes we needmedications to treat a symptom
in the short term.
But a medication can never makeus healthy, with the rare
(38:19):
exception of maybe we have aninfection that needs to be, you
know, eradicated.
So when we understand thatthere's no magical health pill,
there's only a healthprogression, then that's where
real success comes.
So the exciting part about thebladder is, yes, we have great
bladder results, but we alsohave really exciting results
where people become healthier,they feel better.
(38:41):
That inspires them to keepmoving forward versus I'm
frustrated, I'm going to takeanother pill, and I went on an
antidepressant and now I'm on aweight loss drug.
You just see how that builds upinto a big mess.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Right yeah.
So small steps, small goals andthen have other good
consequences, like maybe you'regetting healthier as a result of
eating better foods andswitching your diet, or just
calming yourself down right,addressing your parasympathetic
nervous system and it calmingyourself down right, addressing
your parasympathetic nervoussystem, and it reverberates
(39:17):
right Into other areas of yourlife.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
It does.
And one last thing I wanted tonote too and this is what I'm
super excited about is whenpeople first, a dialogue like
this is really cool, becausemost people think they're alone
with their problem, because theythink I'm the only one on the
world and again, it's notreality, but we all think that
way, we include it, so I'm theonly one with this problem.
(39:40):
Nobody really knows how I feel,but when you get involved in a
system like this is you get toconnect with other people and
that is hugely validating.
Like, oh, you mean you feltthat way or you mean this
happened to you, and it removesthat isolation part.
And what's really exciting is,as that isolation part starts to
dissolve, then people haveconversations like this and it
(40:01):
just branches out.
And then people start to reallynot to get all out there, but
they start to live the real life.
Instead of like I'm hiding, Ihave to protect, it's like, hey,
this used to be a part of me.
Now I can go do my thing and Ican share my story and I don't
have to feel bad about it.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I think for women especially ormaybe men too, but for women
community, I think is very, veryimportant to feel less alone
with some of these issues thatare embarrassing or shameful or
think that we should keep asecret, and I think that that is
(40:36):
a really important part ofhealing.
I agree 100% and you are havinga upcoming talk.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, so this Thursday that would be the 17th of April
at 8 pm, we're having a bladderand menopause seminar.
So we're going to have some ofthe similar discussions we had
today, but it's going to be alittle more formatted, with the
goal of helping peopleunderstand a little more in
depth their bladder, help themunderstand how hormones play a
(41:09):
role and then just giving theman opportunity to get started on
the iron clad bladder programif that's something they want to
do.
Great, so super excited.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, so you send me the link, I will put it in my
show notes so everyone could getthat, and that's just on Zoom.
That's how do you, how do youconnect with?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
that.
So if you go to my website,it's drnigelbrayercom, there's a
link there to sign up for thefree seminar and then, once
you're signed up, you'll get thefree, the link, the Zoom link,
and then it'll start at 8 pm onthe 17th Eastern Standard Time.
Eastern Standard Time.
Yes, thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Okay, okay, well, great, well again, I will put
all your links in the show notesso women can get access to that
, and I think we've covered alot about bladder and we're
dispelling the secrets and themyths around bladder issues,
urinary incontinence, continents, and that's that's what I
(42:11):
that's the whole goal of mypodcast too is just not have
these things be secrets and andfeeling like you are alone in
things.
So I appreciate all of yourinformation and I think this is
going to help a lot of women.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Thanks, heather.
I really appreciate you andputting up this platform for
others.
It's really awesome.
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