May 2, 2025 • 53 mins
What if your biggest challenge became your greatest calling?
That’s exactly what happened to Debra Erickson, who lost her vision to retinitis pigmentosa. At age 59, she did something extraordinary: she enrolled in culinary school — and became the only blind graduate in her class.
Today, Debra is the founder of The Blind Kitchen, where she’s making it possible for people with vision loss to cook independently and confidently.
The truth? The kitchen can be intimidating for anyone — sharp knives, hot pans, complicated recipes. Now imagine facing all of that without sight. In this powerful episode, Debra shares how she turned fear into purpose, building a business that helps others overcome their own kitchen anxieties.
What I love most is that her story isn’t just about blindness. It’s about resilience, creativity, and pushing through whatever’s holding you back — in the kitchen or in life.
Debra’s approach to cooking is all about making things organized, clear, and manageable — lessons that anyone can use, whether you’re a total beginner or just someone who wants to feel more confident making meals at home.
Her courage and innovation are truly inspiring, and I know you’ll come away from this conversation feeling empowered to tackle your own challenges.
🎧 Tune in now and meet Debra Erickson
To learn more about Deborah and her innovative kitchen tools click HERE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everybody and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast Today.
I am so excited I have DebraErickson here and Debra is the
executive chef and founder ofthe Blind Kitchen.
Debra is blind, with verylittle vision and one eye only.
She attended and graduated fromcooking school and was the only
(00:22):
blind student in her classgraduated from cooking school
and was the only blind studentin her class.
Her website and business, theBlind Kitchen, is where she
showcases adaptive culinarytools, strategies and techniques
for cooking safely andindependently in spite of vision
loss.
(00:43):
So, hi, debra, welcome to RealFood Stories.
I'm so happy to have you onhere today because I think when
you first approached me to be onthe show, my initial thought
was this is a topic that mightnot appeal to my audience I mean
fascinating topic to me.
But as I continue to hear yourstory, I realize the courage it
must have taken to cook in thekitchen, in cooking school and
(01:07):
even now when you have lost yourvision.
And it occurred to me that formany of my clients that fear
around cooking is real and wetalked about this a little bit
off air and I think that fearstops people from getting into
(01:46):
their kitchens because theyeither don't know how to cook or
they've want to just jump inand start and hear your story,
and so can you start from thebeginning, when you lost your
vision and going to cookingschool and and all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Sure Heather, thank you so much for having me.
And that fear and that shameare around so many things in
women's lives that they often gotogether that you're afraid of
something and then you'reashamed because you don't step
up to the fear and my specialtyhas to do with cooking, but it
can apply to so many otherplaces in our lives.
(02:19):
So I went blind.
I was diagnosed with retinitispigmentosa at 28 years old.
I went to the doctor just forsome eyeglasses for astigmatism
and got the notice that, by theway, I think I see something in
your eyes that you're going togo blind, and he referred me to
(02:43):
an ophthalmologist and I went tothem and they confirmed that I
indeed did have this disease.
It does not exist in my familyon either side, so it meant my
parents were recessive genecarriers and I'm one of 12
children and three of us have it, so yeah, so it's children.
That's a lot of children, sameparents, same parents, indiana,
(03:05):
hello, so I, so I.
When we went back and got youcan't make this up His name was
Dr Corns.
That was our eye doctor.
There were, my sister woreglasses and my dad wore glasses
so they would take you know,there were two or three new kids
a year it seemed like that hadto go to the eye doctor and we'd
(03:26):
get in the station wagon and goto Dr Korn's and we went back
and retrieved the records andwhen I was 17, one of my notes
in my records indicated that Ihad signs of decreased
peripheral vision and I shouldsee a specialist.
But that got lost in the mayhemand so it looks like I started
(03:46):
losing my vision in adolescenceand that made me very clumsy.
So the initial signs ofretinitis pigmentosa are lack of
night vision and lack ofperipheral vision.
But how do you know how muchnight vision anybody else has?
Or how do you know how muchperipheral?
And the DMV doesn't test fornight or peripheral vision.
They should trust me.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
But they don't.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's just what's in front of you is what they test
for.
So I ended up so at 28, I wasdiagnosed, went to a support
group and they were like, oh,they're going to take your
license now.
So I didn't go back to a doctorat all for a long time because
I couldn't quit driving.
Driving is freedom and that's amyth.
(04:35):
But if you drive, you can'timagine your life without
driving.
And at that time there were noUbers, no Lyfts, no cell phones.
You had to call a taxi fromyour home phone and arrange an
advance.
It was just and I had twolittle boys, it was just a real.
So I continued to drive, but Iwas very careful, very, very
careful I would I was.
The day I quit driving was I waspulling out from a side street
(04:56):
onto a busier street thatcrossed it and I was very
careful to look to the left, tothe right, to the left, to make
sure no cars were coming.
And then I gently acceleratedand I hit a kid on a bike.
I didn't hit him hard, but hehe did fall down.
The bike fell down and Istopped and and I put the car in
(05:16):
park and jumped out and honey,are you okay?
Okay, and he got back up,hopped on his bike and rode away
, so he was fine terrified, oh,but you must have been terrified
, oh, my gosh.
That was my, that was my sign.
You know I can't do thisanymore.
I will never know if it's myvision, because people with
perfectly good vision get inaccidents.
It happens, but I I would neverknow if it was my vision.
(05:40):
And so I couldn't.
And my two boys were in my carwith me.
They were like two and six atthe time.
That's like I, this is it.
So quitting driving was huge,but then I ended up pretending I
could see for a long time.
If you have retinitispigmentosa, they call it RP, and
but it also stands forresistant people, because we can
(06:03):
pretend for longer than otherpeople can that everything's OK.
But I was very clumsy.
I would knock over displays andapologize to shopping carts and
garbage cans and things likethat for bumping into them,
thinking they might be people.
And so it got to the pointwhere I couldn't fake it anymore
.
So I went to the OregonCommission for the Blind and
(06:26):
they taught me my cane skills,braille, orientation and
mobility, adaptive tools.
I use an iPhone with the screencompletely dark.
I just use swipes and gesturesto make it go where it goes.
And then my computer.
I use a computer.
(06:46):
I don't have a mouse or amonitor.
All I have is well, they exist,but I can't see them.
But I just use keyboardcommands like control C for copy
, control V for paste.
But I can do everything allover the place using different
combinations of keys.
So I live in a time whentechnology is pretty amazing for
(07:07):
us.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And so I have taught in the past.
I've taught adults and so Iknew I wanted to teach adults.
And I was at the Commission forthe Blind and my dear friend
she's now my friend andcolleague Commission for the
Blind and my dear friend she'snow my friend and colleague but
she was my teacher at the time.
I was taking meal prep lessonsand the light bulb went on.
(07:32):
I said I'd love to teach us.
This would be fun, to teachpeople how to cook.
And then the light bulb wentoff and I thought I don't know
how to teach people how to cook.
I don't know how to cook myself.
My mom, you know, basicallydistributed food and she didn't
have.
She had seven daughters.
She didn't have time to put usin front of the stovetop and
really teach us.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I can imagine what that must have been like getting
, I mean, that's, 14 of you.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, it was chaotic Breakfast, lunch and dinner
every night.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That must have been like a production line.
It was yeah of course shedidn't have time to teach you
how to cook, and I think that'sa really good point, because
that for my clients they saythat too, that there's like no
one taught them how to cook, andif you, I mean, yeah, cooking
is a skill.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So if you didn't learn it from your mom or your
grandma or something, or youdidn't go to cooking school like
you and I did that, how do youlearn how to cook?
So you know?
So great point that, yeah, youdidn't.
Or just great insight that youdidn't learn from your mom
because she was just in aproduction of feeding the masses
(08:40):
.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's so, true and so, and I didn't want to learn to
cook.
I wanted to be out doingcartwheels and climbing trees
and playing baseball and stufflike that.
I was a tomboy.
So I have two sons I mentionedthem earlier and the youngest is
now six foot five and I didn'tcook well for them either.
I use things like HamburgerHelper and macaroni and cheese.
(09:05):
They love macaroni and cheese,and things you put in the
microwave are that, you know,come in boxes and I could follow
directions and that's how Icooked, but I was not a good
cook by any stretch, but Kylegrew tall, so I must have done
something right.
So when I was thinking aboutteaching cooking, you know,
teaching people how to use theirphones to read boxes was kind
(09:26):
of what I could help them to do.
So I elected to go to culinaryschool and as the only blind
student, it was interesting thatthe chefs could not have been
nicer and more helpful, but theyheld me to the same standards
and I made it through and I hadno intention of starting a
(09:46):
business At that point.
I graduated in June of 2019.
And I, just for the record, Iwas 59 years old, so I was no
spring chicken.
I wasn't 18 years old and Iwanted to come back to the
commission and teach cookinglike Char was doing.
Wanted to come back to thecommission and teach cooking
like Char was doing, and so, butMarch of 2020, and I did teach,
(10:07):
but March of 2020, covid kickedin and then I was sent home for
a year and a half and so Istarted.
Or in real time culinary schoolis very intensive, many hours
and it's hard.
A lot of memorization, science,technology, formulas, different
things.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I understand that.
I mean, I went to cookingschool too, and to do it blind.
It's hard for me to imagine, Imean, what courage that must
have taken you to even show upon the first day.
Courage, or?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
stupidity.
I didn't know.
I didn't know if I'd getthrough it.
And I have a dear friend.
I was with her yesterdayevening and she said, when you
first said you wanted to go toculinary school, I thought, yeah
, sure you will.
She didn't say it out loud butshe told me later, after I
graduated, that she couldn'tfigure out how I was going to
(11:05):
manage it.
But you know, we all get givenobstacles in our roads and you
just, if you want it, bad enough, generally you can figure it
out and I have a great supportsystem and that definitely helps
and I wanted it.
That's the bottom line.
So I started to organize allthat information I'd learned in
(11:28):
culinary school because I'd findlittle gems here and there.
I didn't make all the stuff upthat I've done in the blind
kitchen.
I learned it through webinarsand podcasts and cooking shows.
I mean there was like there'dbe a cooking technique I'd be
like that would work very wellfor blind people, and so I had
all these little pieces and thenpulled them together and
(11:50):
organized them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I want to just backtrack for one second.
How long were you in culinaryschool for?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
For one year.
Now I could have done two yearsand gotten an associate's
degree.
I could have done two years andgotten an associate's degree.
But the second year has to dowith catering and culinary
accounting and running arestaurant, those kind of things
, and I knew I didn't want to dothat.
So I just did the one year Plus.
I already had a master's degreefrom a prior life I was a
(12:23):
recreation therapist and so Ithought there's no advantage to
me to paying another year ofschool and getting this degree.
It would make sense for someoneelse with different career
goals, but it didn't make sensefor me to put in more time and
energy into something I'd neverdo.
I got what I needed in thatfirst year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, and in a year's time you learn everything, yeah
, you learn a lot in a year youdo.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's crazy how much you learn in there.
And it was hard, it wasexhausting.
I'd come home I'd be so tiredfrom lifting heavy things and
running around so many steps.
You know to clean your stationand get the things you need to
perform, but I wouldn't tradethat for anything in the world.
It was just like a labor oflove is what it was.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Did they accommodate you in culinary school?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So I was held to the same standards as all the other
students.
But yes, they did do someaccommodations, like they put
labeled all the spices.
They probably had 300 jars ofspices in one room and they had.
They labeled them both inBraille.
And there's a tool called aPenfriend, which is a little
(13:36):
plastic thing that runs onbatteries and it reads if I hold
it to the dot and the dot wasin the same place on each label
it would read out to me what wasin there.
Or I could read Braille, but myBraille is still poor.
The Pen Fender is faster.
So they did that.
I had talking scale.
I had a talking thermometerReading recipes.
(13:59):
I couldn't read the text andBraille in the kitchen can be
rough because it's paper and ifyour fingers are messy or a
little bit wet or whateveryou're washing your hands
constantly.
Good point, yep.
And so I ended the Victorreader stream.
It's a little machine that Icould put in a Ziploc bag
because you can't have yourphone, you can't have an iPad,
you can't have a computer.
(14:19):
It's against the healthstandards.
You have to put them in plasticor cellophane and then they're
useless if you're using gesturesto guide them.
And so they did.
They did what they could, butwhere they couldn't help me is.
It's like so everybody's therewanting to work in a restaurant
or own a restaurant or acatering business, and if you
(14:41):
come into my restaurant and youorder scrambled eggs and hash
browns and bacon and two hourslater you wave down your server
and say, hey, where's my food?
Well, you know, the chef isblind and so she takes a little
longer.
You don't want to hear that.
You go into a restaurant, youwant to get your food.
So it's just like the cookingshows.
(15:03):
You are given like an hour anda half to make a super salad and
then a protein, a starch and avegetable, and you have to make
three plates.
They always made odd number ofplates just to see if you could
get the quantities right and theplating without waste.
And I I I wasn't the only onethat didn't finish those on time
(15:25):
.
Sometimes I'd run 5, 10, even15 minutes late.
Other people did stagger atdifferent times, but I was the
only one that never made it ontime.
I'm slower, it takes me longer,and I'm sure there's really
good blind cooks out there thatare as fast as can be, but I am
not one of them, and I foundmost of my students aren't.
(15:49):
Because we have to be verythoughtful about where we're
putting that towel down or wherewe're putting that salt and
pepper.
If we don't know where it is,it might as well be invisible,
it's gone, and so you can'tspend a lot of time searching
for things.
You've got to be thoughtful andtake that extra you know, five
seconds to make sure it'splanted in a place where you'll
be able to find it so and thatthose five seconds add up.
So I but they would say if youcan't finish on time, finish
(16:13):
strong, and that's what Ifocused on.
You lose more points if youdon't season your food well than
if you don't get done on time.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So, I just played the cards though you know the
food's got to be good and yeah,I mean well, what?
And what incredible Courage andmindset.
I mean I heard you say, likethat, there wasn't a, there was
no, like I can't do this, but I,I can't versus I can do this,
(16:42):
and I think that's that's such agreat distinction, you know,
between like that fear and thenlimiting yourself and just being
open to the process.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, it's more like I have to do this.
I would say I would argue thatit's more like I have to do this
.
I you know, you kind of justgot to put your vision, so to
speak, on the goal, and then youjust go forward and you do it,
and I don't know where thatcomes from.
One way or another, I'm no heroone way.
(17:29):
And they still achieve it.
And I think, how in the worlddo you keep going to do that?
And so mine happens to bevision loss.
But a lot of other people aredoing some pretty incredible
things out there.
A lot of other people are doingsome pretty incredible things
out there.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, I mean you lost your vision and then you were
brave enough to go to cookingschool, of all things, and you
are 59 years old when you wentto culinary school.
I mean I'm wondering right now,if I went back to culinary
school, how I would actually do,because when I went.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I was pretty, it was in my 20s.
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
To be fair, I had no idea what I was getting into
yeah, so okay, so you graduatefrom culinary school and then
tell me what happens after that.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I went to teach immediately at the Commission
for the Blind, and so that wasin June.
In fact, the woman I spoke ofearlier that had taught me how
to cook under blindfold had anexperience happen where she was
set to teach that semester.
I wasn't, and so I startedteaching on Monday.
(18:37):
When I graduated on a Thursdayoh wow, on a Thursday.
So I started teachingimmediately in June and then was
sent home in March of 2020, aswe all were till the world could
figure out how to navigate aworld with COVID in it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now, Was there any thought of going online with
your cooking?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
You know it's a good question Teaching people to cook
remotely.
There's a lot of risk in that.
I don't know how to do it.
If I'm standing with youhand-on-hand and you can't see
in front of a stove, I can keepenough hand-on-hand with you
what you're doing, I can talk toyou.
(19:17):
I can make sure that you'redoing what I tell you.
If it's remotely, I reallycan't.
You're doing what I tell you.
If it's remotely, I reallycan't.
So that's the other thing aboutthe blind kitchen is a lot of my
customers are people that havecooked for their families and
been, you know, for Christmas orHanukkah or Thanksgiving and
they're known as the cooks.
But now, often because ofage-related vision loss, they
(19:42):
don't know how to get back inthere and cook.
They don't know how to not getcut how could I possibly not
burn myself?
And so that the blind kitchen.
Some of the most emotionalemails that make me emotional
are the ones where they say youknow, this has helped me get my
identity back.
I now can cook for my family,and I mean something like a
(20:04):
turkey, if you're making that,or a big roast chicken for your
family.
A lot of the recipes will saycook it until the juices run
clear, cook it till it's goldenbrown.
Cook it until it's no longerpink.
If you don't have access tothat information, that's where,
like a talking thermometer comesin.
Now I can hear through my earswhat temperature, and if it's at
(20:25):
165 or higher, I'm good.
I'm not going to make my familysick.
But if you don't know abouttalking thermometers or how to
use them, you're kind of stuck.
I wouldn't try and cook aturkey for people I love without
a talking thermometer.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
There's no way, yeah, yeah, without a talking
thermometer, there's no way.
Yeah, yeah, so it.
So it's just back to you knowthey were going remote for being
versus in person.
So I mean I know when covidhappened for me, because I teach
cooking classes as well and Ihad right.
It's like either you go totallyremote or you had to pause
(21:03):
right, you're right, pause yourcooking for a while.
So that was a big part of whatI ended up doing was going
remote, but I can understandthat for you and to teach people
who have vision loss and areblind, that you need to be very
hands on with them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And I get the request all the time Are you going to
do cooking lessons?
Are you going to do cookinglessons?
Are you going to do cookinglessons?
And I haven't figured out howto do it without, because the
insurance company is, first ofall, going to not be very happy
about it and I am insuredbecause I teach workshops and
and things, so I need to be.
(21:40):
I can't sell blades.
That's another thing I'm notable to do.
People are always asking merecommend them, knives and stuff
, and it's like you know you'regonna have to do your own
research on that.
I teach blind skills.
I don't sell just regularknives.
I'll sell you.
I'll send you a link for aknife with a guide on it so that
your bread slices are exactlythe same or your brisket is
(22:02):
exactly the same, becausethere's a guide that helps on
the connected to the knife.
But that's very blind friendly.
Just a regular serrated knifeis.
It isn't what I do right.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Well, I'm curious what kind of knife do you do you
use just on like a personallevel?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
sure I use uh, I've got a eight inch chef knife, and
then I've got a serrated breadknife, and then I've got several
serrated paring knives andthat's all I use for as a rule.
Yeah, yeah, they're just.
I don't need that many knives.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, I agree with you , I don't need right.
When you see those knife setssometimes with 20 knives in
there like you don't, yeah, youdon't need those, you just need
one good chef's knife.
If you even just had that, thatwould be.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Agreed Perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So let's talk about, then, some of those adaptive
tools and that make cookingeasier when you have vision loss
and are blind, like I know wehad talked about.
Or I went on your website and Iknow you had the Cut Glove
right and as I was looking atsome of your adaptive tools, I'm
(23:18):
like these are just perfect forjust like my clients, like
people who have a lot of feararound cooking.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's true, it's true, and most of these aren't made
for blind people.
They're made for people thathave fear around cooking or that
work in a commercial kitchenwhere an insurance company will
require every cook.
Whenever they're cutting, theyhave to wear them, and I've got
really strong knife skills.
I'm sure you do too, becausethey force you to in culinary
school.
But this cut glove that you'retalking about, it's an amazing
(23:49):
tool and I actually have extrasmall ones because people want
them for their children, even iftheir children can see they're
a little bit stretchy and youput them on the hand that's
holding the food and the knifecannot come through it.
I have videos, audio describedvideos on my website where I'm
holding, wearing the glove on myone hand with my palm facing
(24:12):
towards the ceiling, and I'vegot a sharp.
That was a 10 inch chef knifejust for the looks of it, and I
slide it back and forth on thepalm of my hand, the blade of
the knife, and I can feel themovement and I can feel pressure
, but it doesn't cut through.
My skin is just fine, so it's areally good thing.
So like if I'm cutting, let'ssay, like a carrot on, and I'm
(24:36):
cutting, slicing, slicing intocoins and all of a sudden that
knife hits the hand holding thecarrot and I don't expect it to
Even just barely nudges it.
It's not going to cut throughit because I'm wearing the glove
.
If I'd not been wearing theglove by the time that knife my
brain got the message that theknife has made contact with my
(24:57):
skin.
It would be cut.
And so the other place thatworks beautifully in is with
grading foods, because boxgraders are wonderful tools but
they are weird.
They're angled, they're slanted.
They got four different sideswith multiple different numbers
and sizes of blades and it'sreally hard to judge when you're
(25:19):
too close to it.
And so I don't know of any cook.
I did it when I used to be ableto see I would get that knuckle
skin right in there.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, there's nothing .
It's not being careless oranything like that.
It's just a difficult tool tonavigate using your eyes, and if
you don't have any vision atall, it's difficult to navigate
as well.
But if you're wearing thatglove, you're going to be
grating, grating, grating, andall of a sudden you'll feel snag
or pressure or contact when youdon't expect to.
You're not going to be bleedingand your skin won't be in the
(25:51):
food.
You'll just stop.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, so the cut glove.
I mean, I think when I saw yourvideo, when you were just like
rubbing a knife back and forthover it, I mean, and I've seen
the cut glove before, like overthe years, and like I've never
recommended this to any of myclients and I definitely will
start doing that, because Ithink that is a number one fear
(26:17):
for people is using a knife,because I always I'm sure you do
this too I mean, you need asharp knife, right?
You don't want to have a dullknife.
You want your knives to be niceand sharp, right?
Yeah, that scares people.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, if I'm trying to cut that carrot with a dull
knife, I'm going to be pushinghave to push harder.
And I'm going to force thatdull knife through it, I'm going
to get cut worse.
And it's going to force thatdull knife through it, I'm going
to get cut worse.
And it's going to be a jaggedcut, not a smooth cut if I do
cut myself.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So it seems illogical but a sharp knife is much safer
than a dull one.
Yes, I tell this to people allthe time that make sure your
knives are sharp.
That's safer than a dull knife,and I think people yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's illogical, it doesn't make sense in your brain
.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I think people.
Yeah, it's illogical, itdoesn't make sense in your brain
.
Yes, exactly, but the cut glovemakes a ton of sense.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Anyone who's?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
then fearful of using a knife.
What other tools, adaptivetools, do you promote?
Or what are your like top?
You know couple of tools thatyou feel like people couldn't
live without Sure.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So one of them is called an auto measure spout and
it's just a spout.
It doesn't have any powersource or anything.
It goes on top of a bottle andof olive oil, vegetable oil,
vinegar.
whatever you are going to use atablespoon, the only measurement
I have is a tablespoon and youtip it upside down and it
dispenses exactly one tablespoonof like olive oil in your pan
or your bowl, and then it stopsautomatically.
It's made of plastic.
(27:50):
It's got ball bearings in it.
It's magic.
I don't know how it works,that's not my job to know how
it's, just to source it.
And then if I want a secondtablespoon, I just have to turn
the bottle upside up again andthen upside down and you can
hear it dispensing, and then itstops, even if you're holding it
upside down.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That is a great tool as well, because I know that for
my clients too.
They just say like, becauseI'll sometimes just not measure.
You know, I'm sort ofeyeballing it and you know, but
when the recipe says twotablespoons of olive oil and
you're new to cooking, Exactly,People are following that to the
letter, and so that's.
(28:30):
I love that tool also.
That's a great great, ratherthan having to get out a
measuring spoon and you knowlike taking that extra step.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Oh yeah, and especially if you can't see with
vision loss, if you're tryingto measure like a teaspoon of
vanilla vanilla is veryexpensive.
And so you've got to hold thespoon with one hand, hold the
bottle with the other hand, poura little bit, put the bottle
down, touch.
Is it full?
Oh, I don't think so.
Let me pour a little more inthere.
Put the bottle down, touch itand you only know when it's
(29:09):
level is.
When it overflows and even whenI could see, I had a hard time
knowing exactly when it waslevel.
It's hard to do, but ours areshaped like ladles.
So if you want a teaspoon ofvanilla, it's a regular teaspoon
, but it'll have one dot in thehandle.
If it's a third, it'll havethree dots in the handle.
They're made out of stainlesssteel.
If it's a regular teaspoon, butit'll have one dot in the
handle.
If it's a third, it'll havethree dots in the handle.
They're made out of stainlesssteel.
If it's a quarter spoon or aquarter cup, there will be four
(29:30):
dots.
So it's very easy.
It's not braille, you just haveto be able to count.
But the handle's faced towardsthe ceiling for the wet
measuring.
So we send a little spoutedpitcher like a little beaker,
basically it.
So we send a little spoutedpitcher like a little beaker,
basically it's only about aninch around and two inches tall,
and you put the spoon in it.
And I've always said, if theywere going to take my vision,
(29:51):
they should have given me athird hand, because I never have
enough hands.
Yes, but now if I put thatspoon in there, it's standing up
by itself.
For the most part it's a littlebit slanted, but that doesn't
matter, I'll explain in a minute.
So then I take that bottle ofvanilla and I pour it into that
where the spoon is standing upin the little pitcher, and I
(30:13):
overflow the cavity of the spoon, not the pitcher but the cavity
of the spoon.
So that way when I go to liftthat spoon up, if I don't hear
anything drop, I know it's level, if I don't hear anything and I
can just pull my target bowlvery close to where that is,
pick it up, don't hear anythingdrop.
I know I've got an accuratemeasurement and there won't be
(30:34):
any waste, because we also senda small funnel with the spoon
set and I can put that funnel inthe bottle.
So instead of the opening ofthe vanilla bottle the two ounce
ones it's about the size ofyour pinky Now I put the funnel
in there and now I've got alittle over three inches for a
target.
So it's very quick and easy forme to just pour that overflow
(30:55):
vanilla into there.
So I got an accuratemeasurement and I didn't waste
any.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
That makes a ton of sense as well.
And I, yeah, because I knowthat just all of those little
things I mean, just withouthaving vision loss, that that
people get nervous or fearfulabout, am I measuring correctly?
Am I you know all of just?
Am I doing it right?
(31:21):
And that just all those thingsjust make it so much easier.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Right, right and I also.
We started out talking aboutfears of getting back in the
kitchen and what.
I've.
Of course, my venue has to dowith vision loss, but I think
this is true of a lot of people,whether you can see or not.
One is the fear, of course,cutting yourself and then
burning yourself.
Those are very real fears.
(31:46):
If you don't, if you aren'tafraid of that, you're not going
to last very long.
I mean, your body is tellingyou this is not.
You know, you're holding aknife.
You could get hurt.
It's important to note that.
But you can overcome it withthe right tools and strategies.
But there are other fears wetalked about the fear of make
your family or friends sick.
That's a real fear that if Idon't cook that turkey or
(32:08):
chicken long enough for thatmeat or whatever, it's not that
it's not going to taste good orit's going to look unattractive,
it is going to make them sick.
And so you've got to be very ontop of that and have a strategy
to make sure that you know it'scooked enough.
But the other fears that peoplehave are fears of being
embarrassed, and this definitelyapplies to vision loss.
(32:30):
But I think your audience isgoing to understand this the
fear of embarrassment.
Am I going to look messy?
Am I going to look disorganized?
Am I going?
And then the other part is thefood presentation.
If I can't see the food and I'mhanding you a plate, what is it
?
You can see it, I can't.
What's it going to look like?
(32:50):
Is it going to be attractive ornot?
And because we can't.
So organization, that's a humanthing.
Some people are more organized,naturally, some are less
organized, but there arestrategies you can do to not
look unorganized.
And talking about the vanilla,one thing that I couldn't do
without in my kitchen and I'vetalked a lot of sighted people
(33:13):
into using these are called worktrays, but they're basically
cafeteria trays.
So when I'm pouring thatvanilla, I'm going to work.
It's like a cafeteria tray thatyou'd get in a school or a
hospital and you just it's gotthose little slightly raised
edges around the edges.
So, first of all, now myworkspace is contained, it's a
(33:38):
known variable.
It's not the entire stretch ofthe edges.
So, first of all, now myworkspace is contained, it's a
known variable.
It's not the entire stretch ofthe counter, it is that tray in
front of me and if I want to getout my ingredients for making
cookies or whatever, I cangather those all and put them on
a different work tray.
Now they're all in a predictable, defined place, and so when I'm
doing that vanilla, I spilledthings when I could see.
I mean everybody spills wet ordry ingredients.
(33:58):
But instead of that, vanillarunning across the counter down
the front of my cupboards ontothe floor, I've got to clean
that all up.
Now it's probably going to becontained in that tray, and so
that's another strategy.
I could not do without my worktrays.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, I love that idea.
I mean, just while you'resaying that, I'm thinking that I
use when I'm teaching a cookingclass.
I put everything on rimmedbaking sheets.
Yeah, Kind of the same thing.
You know just to likedistinguish.
Like, this is the saladingredients, this is the salad
dressing ingredient.
You know just to.
You know to help organizemyself, but I think that's such
(34:37):
a great idea for even morefearful cooks, and you know just
people who are learning how tocook as a way of organizing you
went to culinary school, one ofthe first terms you learned was
mise en place, and that meanseverything in its place.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
So one of the things that most cooks do that cause a
problem is whether you can seeor not is you're trying to solve
problems in real time, tryingto find the vanilla, trying to
find this, trying to find thatMost people start to cook and
they're not ready to cook yet.
You need to get all your stuffin place Get your garnishes
ready, Get your potatoes ready,Get everything in place before
(35:21):
you turn the stove on or theoven.
As much as you can.
Different recipes call fordifferent steps, but most people
aren't ready to cook when theyturn on the stove.
They don't have everything inplace to get going, and it's a
pleasure if you've goteverything, if you're not
scrambling to find the carrotsor the potato peeler or whatever
(35:42):
you're looking for.
That stresses me out If thestove is on and I'm trying to
find the lid to that pan.
It's not a good thing.
It's very stressful.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, exactly.
But it's pleasant, yes, and Itotally agree with stressful
yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I am pleasant.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yes, and I totally agree with you.
Yeah, the mise en place issomething I always impart in my
cooking classes.
And and just to get yourselforganized, know what's coming in
the recipe, know what you haveto be.
You don't want to know thatlike when you're five steps down
in the recipe, that, oh shoot,I needed to have cooked brown
(36:18):
rice, which is going to takeanother hour to cook.
It's anything like that.
That right, look over yourrecipes know what's coming to
you, but also, most importantly,to have everything there right
on your tray or, you know, justin your space.
Such a good point.
Do you teach remotely?
(36:38):
I do teach remotely.
Well, you know, like I saidwhen COVID happened, I mean I
was all in person until COVIDand then I went totally online
for a while.
So right now I do hybrid.
You know, I do some in personand some and some online.
(36:59):
I'm going to take your cookingclass.
Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I would love it.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
That would be, that would be wonderful, it'd be fun.
And so, and going back to you,know what you were just saying
about the, the fears aroundbeing in the kitchen and like
just this.
You used the word embarrassment.
I know that that's for my, justthe women.
(37:26):
This is especially like Igetting the backlash from their
kids or this doesn't taste good,or like that fear of is it
going to taste good, is it goingto, is everyone going to?
You know, give me a pat on theback for doing a good job and
(37:50):
being good enough, and that justthe fear of their spouse, their
partner, not liking it, andthis is these are just things
that really, I think, blockwomen at least the women I've
worked with Absolutely, and thesecret to that is is make sure
(38:15):
they're really.
We've been talking about likejust using adaptive tools, like
the cut glove, or organizingyourself, the mise en place,
having all your ingredientsready, builds that confidence in
the kitchen yes, Right, I meanit does you know and you have to
practice.
Right, I mean you know you knowgoing to cooking school, that
(38:37):
was all it was a year longpractice Right, I mean it does
you know and you have topractice.
Right, I mean you know you knowgoing to cooking school, that
was all it was a year longpractice Right, absolutely Six
hours a day.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, and then two hours of class time.
Four hours a day, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
And then you have to keep on cooking, right?
I mean, you have to keep thislike the skill oh yeah, oh yeah,
warmed up like every day yes,it is, yeah, truly, truly skill.
So how so?
I'm I'm just curious at.
So, after you know, covethappened is that when you opened
the blind kitchen no, well, I,yes it was.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I was organizing it during it and getting my you
know the, the business licenseand all that.
But I went back to teach at theCommission for the Blind
because I love teaching inperson.
You obviously do too, that'swhat you do.
But I did that for about a yearand a half and I was starting
to drop balls on both ends.
You know fulfilling orders anddoing videos for the Blind
(39:34):
Kitchen.
You know fulfilling orders anddoing videos for the blind
kitchen and then teaching.
Teaching cooking is a you haveto be very mindful.
You have to make sure you haveall the ingredients, all the
supplies, all the everything,because you don't.
You want your students to havea successful experience and not
because you forgot to buy thevanilla or whatever.
So I was dropping things.
(39:54):
And when you have two or threestudents two or three days a
week, they're each having adifferent lesson.
So that's a lot of planninggoing on.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
A lot of planning.
Yes, yeah, cooking classes takea lot of work to plan them,
then to make sure you have theingredients get all your stuff
prepped together, you know, andthen execute the class.
So it all times out and, yeah,it's more work.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
In the right amount of time.
Right yes.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
More work than people imagine and cleanup.
Thank you very much.
Yes, yes, and then cleanup.
Yes, I forgot about that.
Yeah, that adds an extra, youknow hour.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, exactly.
So I was dropping balls on bothends and I decided I had to
make a choice.
So I decided to go with theblind kitchen.
I was getting really goodfeedback on it and people were
saying this is making adifference, and there were two
other teachers at the commissionthat could continue teaching
(40:54):
legally blind adults, and so Idecided to go full-time with the
Blind Kitchen and it's been areal trip.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, tell me about it, Tell me what you do on your
website.
I mean, I looked a little bitand I know that you sell some of
these adaptive tools.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, Well, we have over 90 now and some of them are
organized in collections like acutting and chopping collection
.
But an individual doesn't needa whole collection of cutting
and chopping tools.
Everybody has differentstrengths, but those are mostly
sold to agencies that teachpeople with vision loss how to
cook so that they have a toolkitof things they can go to.
(41:33):
If this one doesn't work forthat particular student, maybe
this other finger guard willwork.
So we make audio describedvideos so that people, no matter
what your level of vision lossis, if you're completely blind,
you're going to know what'shappening in that video.
If I'm not talking anddescribing what I'm doing, maybe
(41:54):
I need to concentrate.
Then we have a professionalvoice voiceover and talk tells
the people watching the videowhat I'm doing when I'm not
talking, and that all takes alot of time and editing and
things like that.
I've got an extremely good team.
I've got a web designer, I'vegot a videographer and
(42:15):
photographer and I have a socialmedia person.
So my husband and I and oneother person do the packaging
and shipping and we get ordersevery single day and I'm really
looking forward to sourcing thatout.
We're not at the point where Ican pay someone to do that full
time.
But I really am a.
(42:35):
I think it's important to knowwhat your strengths are, and I
am a cook and I am a teacher,and that is where I excel and if
I'm spending a lot of timeputting things into bags, and
the reason I'm able to do thatis every tool is packed in its
own bag.
That's marked in both largeprint and Braille, so that's how
(42:57):
I can.
I can't do the part where, well,I suppose I could if I had to.
But I don't have to put thestuff in one cardboard box and
then put a label on it, becausenone of that's done in large
print or Braille, and then mailit out.
So that's what our days aredoing is I process the orders, I
answer emails.
(43:17):
There are so many people thathave vision loss that want to go
to culinary school.
Wow, yeah, I had no idea.
I mean, my friend, yeah, sureyou will.
I mean, I think the world ismore like that and so I get a
lot of it.
So maybe I'll start a culinaryschool for blind people.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Probably not, I'm getting too old for all this.
Oh, that would be a fantasticidea.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I love it.
Lots of work, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
But you truly are like a.
I mean, I'm sure you are such afantastic role model for other
people who are blind.
I mean, if you can go to amainstream cooking school and
look where you are now, I meanthat's really something to be
(44:03):
proud of.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
No, thank you, I appreciate that.
And the other piece that I geta lot of communication is being
an entrepreneur, a blindentrepreneur.
There aren't that many of usout there.
There are some.
There are more blindentrepreneurs than there are
blind chefs.
Trust me on this one, butthat's the other piece that I
feel like I can give blindpeople advice, say, hey, you can
(44:28):
do this, you know, but nobodygives it to you.
You've got work, just likenobody gave you your culinary
school degree.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, well, yes, and I think that you have such a
great attitude.
I mean it sounds like you, youknow, even if you're like doing
it scared, even if you know ifit has felt scary to you, you're
still doing it and you're doingfantastic things with your
(44:57):
business and your cooking.
Sounds like the possibilitiesare almost endless.
I mean you could do a lot goingforward.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
True, true, just like any you know in the cooking
world, it's a thing.
Now People are into it.
So, yeah, people are very intoit.
Yes, exactly, and they're moreeducated.
Thing now People are into it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
So yeah, there's a lot of different directions.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yes, exactly, and they're more educated than they
used to be on it.
Yes, I mean I could probablywatch the cooking shows and
learn as much as I learned inculinary school.
Now they talk about the art andthe science and the history.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yes, exactly no, I agree with you.
So the Blind Kitchen, where canpeople find you?
Give me your website and I willput these links in the show
notes and all your info, buttell me how people can find you,
because I think that for justmy listeners, who are, who have
(45:58):
their vision or not I mean toget some of these adaptive tools
is like can be a game changerthank you for that.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah, so, um, it's theblindkitchencom, and make
sure you put the word the inthere, because there is a tv
show called blind kitchen, wherein Boston they take people that
can see perfectly well and putblindfolds on them and then have
them do challenges.
Oh no, we could talk for hours.
It's pros and cons, but that'sBlind Kitchen.
(46:28):
I am theblindkitchencom.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It's a very clean website.
I don't have any affiliate adsor anything like that.
It's going to be very friendlyto software that helps blind and
visually impaired people tonavigate the web.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
So yeah, well, that's great, and you have recipes on
there too.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I do and I think you'll appreciate this too.
So if you're reading a recipeand you can see they're going to
say it's one cup of flour, twoeggs, half a cup of sugar or
whatever, they're going to havethe ingredients listed.
And then when you go down,they're going to say cream the
butter and the eggs or the sugarup to the recipe how many eggs
(47:13):
was it?
How much sugar was it?
I put the amounts in the recipecream, you know, one stick of
butter and one cup of sugar, andI put that in the thing.
But the other thing I do is I,because I am a teacher when I'm
doing the recipe, when I'm doingthe ingredients, if there's
(47:40):
something special about theingredients or something that I
think people have a questionabout, like I did a peach
bourbon cobbler on, that is oneof the recipes.
And so when I talked, when Isaid you know, you need, you
know, 12 ounces of peaches orwhatever, and then I said if you
use canned peaches they'll work, but you got to do this.
They're going to be softer.
They're not going to be if youuse fresh ones, it's going to be
about four large peaches.
(48:00):
You know things that peoplewill have questions about, or
frozen peaches.
So I I do so, I have ingredientnotes and then when I'm doing
the recipe, I'll do it, startingwith the garnishes and the
produce first, because if I havethat work tray I'm talking
about, I'm trying to minimizedishes If I cut up my protein,
like the chicken on there, andseason it, that work tray is now
(48:21):
no longer usable for me unlessI wash it and disinfect it and
everything like that.
But if I do all the produce onit first, set it off to the side
, do the potatoes next and setit off to the side, measure it,
get it all done, I'm going tohave a lot less dishes.
So it goes through and itdescribes why I did that step
first.
It's teaching you so you canapply it to the next recipe that
(48:45):
you do when I'm not there tohelp you with it.
The other thing it does is thatI put the tool I use to do that
particular step, so if I amdoing something.
There's another thing that'sincredible because I use like a
lot of parsley, cilantro,rosemary, things like that fresh
herbs is.
(49:06):
You take a little bowl likeabout a six ounce bowl and you
put the parsley you know treesin there and then take a pair of
scissors and just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut into the bowl, chop,
chop, chop, chop, chop.
It is amazing and it keeps theoils and all those little pieces
of parsley.
They're now not all over yourcutting board, it keeps them in
(49:27):
the bowl and you just cut, cut,cut, cut, cut.
And then you check Nope, it'sstill a little bit too big.
Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
It's amazing how uniform andconsistent it is and it's all
contained in the little bowl.
It's a game changer.
So those are the kind of thingsthat I put in the recipe.
That doesn't cost you any money.
You just have to have a pair ofkitchen chairs and a little
(49:48):
bowl and you can do it are kindof genius.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I mean just even, you know, talking about just taking
from the ingredients andputting that, then the
ingredients, again in thedirections, and then in the
directions saying like whattools you're going to need.
And I mean those are all.
If you don't mind, I'm going toadopt some of those for some of
my recipes.
I think that this is, you know,this is what people really want
and need, and you know thatrather than I mean for me, like
(50:20):
looking at a recipe, I caneasily go up and down, but you
know, when you're, when you area new cook, with fear and you
know doing it right, that havingall of those other little steps
is just people appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
It just makes it easier.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Yes, it just makes it easier and why not make it
easier?
Those are just, yeah, really.
You know, cutting with thescissors and herbs over a bowl,
all genius.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah, great, great tips.
I can't claim credit forinventing them, but for putting
them in the recipes and stufflike that.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, no, but really really, you know just some
things that I probably havenever thought about doing.
You know, and because I don'tknow, no one's really like asked
me for that, but now that yousaid it I'm like, oh, that's
such a good idea.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Great idea.
It helps keep clean andorganized too.
Yes, yes absolutely Well.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Deorah, this has been such a pleasure to talk to you
and um I your.
Your story is just reallyinfectious.
I mean, I just think it's.
I think your website soundsfantastic and I hope you know
great things come for you, moreyou know, and I can't wait to
see your future cooking school,which I hope you manifest.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I'll need an assistant principal.
That'll be you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yes, we could talk.
That would be great.
So thank you so much.
I will put all your links inthe show notes and hope you have
a great day.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
This has been fun, yep.
Hi everybody and welcome back to the Real Food
Stories podcast Today.
I am so excited I have DebraErickson here and Debra is the
executive chef and founder ofthe Blind Kitchen.
Debra is blind, with verylittle vision and one eye only.
She attended and graduated fromcooking school and was the only
(00:22):
blind student in her classgraduated from cooking school
and was the only blind studentin her class.
Her website and business, theBlind Kitchen, is where she
showcases adaptive culinarytools, strategies and techniques
for cooking safely andindependently in spite of vision
loss.
(00:43):
So, hi, debra, welcome to RealFood Stories.
I'm so happy to have you onhere today because I think when
you first approached me to be onthe show, my initial thought
was this is a topic that mightnot appeal to my audience I mean
fascinating topic to me.
But as I continue to hear yourstory, I realize the courage it
must have taken to cook in thekitchen, in cooking school and
(01:07):
even now when you have lost yourvision.
And it occurred to me that formany of my clients that fear
around cooking is real and wetalked about this a little bit
off air and I think that fearstops people from getting into
(01:46):
their kitchens because theyeither don't know how to cook or
they've want to just jump inand start and hear your story,
and so can you start from thebeginning, when you lost your
vision and going to cookingschool and and all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Sure Heather, thank you so much for having me.
And that fear and that shameare around so many things in
women's lives that they often gotogether that you're afraid of
something and then you'reashamed because you don't step
up to the fear and my specialtyhas to do with cooking, but it
can apply to so many otherplaces in our lives.
(02:19):
So I went blind.
I was diagnosed with retinitispigmentosa at 28 years old.
I went to the doctor just forsome eyeglasses for astigmatism
and got the notice that, by theway, I think I see something in
your eyes that you're going togo blind, and he referred me to
(02:43):
an ophthalmologist and I went tothem and they confirmed that I
indeed did have this disease.
It does not exist in my familyon either side, so it meant my
parents were recessive genecarriers and I'm one of 12
children and three of us have it, so yeah, so it's children.
That's a lot of children, sameparents, same parents, indiana,
(03:05):
hello, so I, so I.
When we went back and got youcan't make this up His name was
Dr Corns.
That was our eye doctor.
There were, my sister woreglasses and my dad wore glasses
so they would take you know,there were two or three new kids
a year it seemed like that hadto go to the eye doctor and we'd
(03:26):
get in the station wagon and goto Dr Korn's and we went back
and retrieved the records andwhen I was 17, one of my notes
in my records indicated that Ihad signs of decreased
peripheral vision and I shouldsee a specialist.
But that got lost in the mayhemand so it looks like I started
(03:46):
losing my vision in adolescenceand that made me very clumsy.
So the initial signs ofretinitis pigmentosa are lack of
night vision and lack ofperipheral vision.
But how do you know how muchnight vision anybody else has?
Or how do you know how muchperipheral?
And the DMV doesn't test fornight or peripheral vision.
They should trust me.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
But they don't.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's just what's in front of you is what they test
for.
So I ended up so at 28, I wasdiagnosed, went to a support
group and they were like, oh,they're going to take your
license now.
So I didn't go back to a doctorat all for a long time because
I couldn't quit driving.
Driving is freedom and that's amyth.
(04:35):
But if you drive, you can'timagine your life without
driving.
And at that time there were noUbers, no Lyfts, no cell phones.
You had to call a taxi fromyour home phone and arrange an
advance.
It was just and I had twolittle boys, it was just a real.
So I continued to drive, but Iwas very careful, very, very
careful I would I was.
The day I quit driving was I waspulling out from a side street
(04:56):
onto a busier street thatcrossed it and I was very
careful to look to the left, tothe right, to the left, to make
sure no cars were coming.
And then I gently acceleratedand I hit a kid on a bike.
I didn't hit him hard, but hehe did fall down.
The bike fell down and Istopped and and I put the car in
(05:16):
park and jumped out and honey,are you okay?
Okay, and he got back up,hopped on his bike and rode away
, so he was fine terrified, oh,but you must have been terrified
, oh, my gosh.
That was my, that was my sign.
You know I can't do thisanymore.
I will never know if it's myvision, because people with
perfectly good vision get inaccidents.
It happens, but I I would neverknow if it was my vision.
(05:40):
And so I couldn't.
And my two boys were in my carwith me.
They were like two and six atthe time.
That's like I, this is it.
So quitting driving was huge,but then I ended up pretending I
could see for a long time.
If you have retinitispigmentosa, they call it RP, and
but it also stands forresistant people, because we can
(06:03):
pretend for longer than otherpeople can that everything's OK.
But I was very clumsy.
I would knock over displays andapologize to shopping carts and
garbage cans and things likethat for bumping into them,
thinking they might be people.
And so it got to the pointwhere I couldn't fake it anymore
.
So I went to the OregonCommission for the Blind and
(06:26):
they taught me my cane skills,braille, orientation and
mobility, adaptive tools.
I use an iPhone with the screencompletely dark.
I just use swipes and gesturesto make it go where it goes.
And then my computer.
I use a computer.
(06:46):
I don't have a mouse or amonitor.
All I have is well, they exist,but I can't see them.
But I just use keyboardcommands like control C for copy
, control V for paste.
But I can do everything allover the place using different
combinations of keys.
So I live in a time whentechnology is pretty amazing for
(07:07):
us.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And so I have taught in the past.
I've taught adults and so Iknew I wanted to teach adults.
And I was at the Commission forthe Blind and my dear friend
she's now my friend andcolleague Commission for the
Blind and my dear friend she'snow my friend and colleague but
she was my teacher at the time.
I was taking meal prep lessonsand the light bulb went on.
(07:32):
I said I'd love to teach us.
This would be fun, to teachpeople how to cook.
And then the light bulb wentoff and I thought I don't know
how to teach people how to cook.
I don't know how to cook myself.
My mom, you know, basicallydistributed food and she didn't
have.
She had seven daughters.
She didn't have time to put usin front of the stovetop and
really teach us.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I can imagine what that must have been like getting
, I mean, that's, 14 of you.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, it was chaotic Breakfast, lunch and dinner
every night.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That must have been like a production line.
It was yeah of course shedidn't have time to teach you
how to cook, and I think that'sa really good point, because
that for my clients they saythat too, that there's like no
one taught them how to cook, andif you, I mean, yeah, cooking
is a skill.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So if you didn't learn it from your mom or your
grandma or something, or youdidn't go to cooking school like
you and I did that, how do youlearn how to cook?
So you know?
So great point that, yeah, youdidn't.
Or just great insight that youdidn't learn from your mom
because she was just in aproduction of feeding the masses
(08:40):
.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's so, true and so, and I didn't want to learn to
cook.
I wanted to be out doingcartwheels and climbing trees
and playing baseball and stufflike that.
I was a tomboy.
So I have two sons I mentionedthem earlier and the youngest is
now six foot five and I didn'tcook well for them either.
I use things like HamburgerHelper and macaroni and cheese.
(09:05):
They love macaroni and cheese,and things you put in the
microwave are that, you know,come in boxes and I could follow
directions and that's how Icooked, but I was not a good
cook by any stretch, but Kylegrew tall, so I must have done
something right.
So when I was thinking aboutteaching cooking, you know,
teaching people how to use theirphones to read boxes was kind
(09:26):
of what I could help them to do.
So I elected to go to culinaryschool and as the only blind
student, it was interesting thatthe chefs could not have been
nicer and more helpful, but theyheld me to the same standards
and I made it through and I hadno intention of starting a
(09:46):
business At that point.
I graduated in June of 2019.
And I, just for the record, Iwas 59 years old, so I was no
spring chicken.
I wasn't 18 years old and Iwanted to come back to the
commission and teach cookinglike Char was doing.
Wanted to come back to thecommission and teach cooking
like Char was doing, and so, butMarch of 2020, and I did teach,
(10:07):
but March of 2020, covid kickedin and then I was sent home for
a year and a half and so Istarted.
Or in real time culinary schoolis very intensive, many hours
and it's hard.
A lot of memorization, science,technology, formulas, different
things.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I understand that.
I mean, I went to cookingschool too, and to do it blind.
It's hard for me to imagine, Imean, what courage that must
have taken you to even show upon the first day.
Courage, or?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
stupidity.
I didn't know.
I didn't know if I'd getthrough it.
And I have a dear friend.
I was with her yesterdayevening and she said, when you
first said you wanted to go toculinary school, I thought, yeah
, sure you will.
She didn't say it out loud butshe told me later, after I
graduated, that she couldn'tfigure out how I was going to
(11:05):
manage it.
But you know, we all get givenobstacles in our roads and you
just, if you want it, bad enough, generally you can figure it
out and I have a great supportsystem and that definitely helps
and I wanted it.
That's the bottom line.
So I started to organize allthat information I'd learned in
(11:28):
culinary school because I'd findlittle gems here and there.
I didn't make all the stuff upthat I've done in the blind
kitchen.
I learned it through webinarsand podcasts and cooking shows.
I mean there was like there'dbe a cooking technique I'd be
like that would work very wellfor blind people, and so I had
all these little pieces and thenpulled them together and
(11:50):
organized them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I want to just backtrack for one second.
How long were you in culinaryschool for?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
For one year.
Now I could have done two yearsand gotten an associate's
degree.
I could have done two years andgotten an associate's degree.
But the second year has to dowith catering and culinary
accounting and running arestaurant, those kind of things
, and I knew I didn't want to dothat.
So I just did the one year Plus.
I already had a master's degreefrom a prior life I was a
(12:23):
recreation therapist and so Ithought there's no advantage to
me to paying another year ofschool and getting this degree.
It would make sense for someoneelse with different career
goals, but it didn't make sensefor me to put in more time and
energy into something I'd neverdo.
I got what I needed in thatfirst year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, and in a year's time you learn everything, yeah
, you learn a lot in a year youdo.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's crazy how much you learn in there.
And it was hard, it wasexhausting.
I'd come home I'd be so tiredfrom lifting heavy things and
running around so many steps.
You know to clean your stationand get the things you need to
perform, but I wouldn't tradethat for anything in the world.
It was just like a labor oflove is what it was.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Did they accommodate you in culinary school?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So I was held to the same standards as all the other
students.
But yes, they did do someaccommodations, like they put
labeled all the spices.
They probably had 300 jars ofspices in one room and they had.
They labeled them both inBraille.
And there's a tool called aPenfriend, which is a little
(13:36):
plastic thing that runs onbatteries and it reads if I hold
it to the dot and the dot wasin the same place on each label
it would read out to me what wasin there.
Or I could read Braille, but myBraille is still poor.
The Pen Fender is faster.
So they did that.
I had talking scale.
I had a talking thermometerReading recipes.
(13:59):
I couldn't read the text andBraille in the kitchen can be
rough because it's paper and ifyour fingers are messy or a
little bit wet or whateveryou're washing your hands
constantly.
Good point, yep.
And so I ended the Victorreader stream.
It's a little machine that Icould put in a Ziploc bag
because you can't have yourphone, you can't have an iPad,
you can't have a computer.
(14:19):
It's against the healthstandards.
You have to put them in plasticor cellophane and then they're
useless if you're using gesturesto guide them.
And so they did.
They did what they could, butwhere they couldn't help me is.
It's like so everybody's therewanting to work in a restaurant
or own a restaurant or acatering business, and if you
(14:41):
come into my restaurant and youorder scrambled eggs and hash
browns and bacon and two hourslater you wave down your server
and say, hey, where's my food?
Well, you know, the chef isblind and so she takes a little
longer.
You don't want to hear that.
You go into a restaurant, youwant to get your food.
So it's just like the cookingshows.
(15:03):
You are given like an hour anda half to make a super salad and
then a protein, a starch and avegetable, and you have to make
three plates.
They always made odd number ofplates just to see if you could
get the quantities right and theplating without waste.
And I I I wasn't the only onethat didn't finish those on time
(15:25):
.
Sometimes I'd run 5, 10, even15 minutes late.
Other people did stagger atdifferent times, but I was the
only one that never made it ontime.
I'm slower, it takes me longer,and I'm sure there's really
good blind cooks out there thatare as fast as can be, but I am
not one of them, and I foundmost of my students aren't.
(15:49):
Because we have to be verythoughtful about where we're
putting that towel down or wherewe're putting that salt and
pepper.
If we don't know where it is,it might as well be invisible,
it's gone, and so you can'tspend a lot of time searching
for things.
You've got to be thoughtful andtake that extra you know, five
seconds to make sure it'splanted in a place where you'll
be able to find it so and thatthose five seconds add up.
So I but they would say if youcan't finish on time, finish
(16:13):
strong, and that's what Ifocused on.
You lose more points if youdon't season your food well than
if you don't get done on time.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So, I just played the cards though you know the
food's got to be good and yeah,I mean well, what?
And what incredible Courage andmindset.
I mean I heard you say, likethat, there wasn't a, there was
no, like I can't do this, but I,I can't versus I can do this,
(16:42):
and I think that's that's such agreat distinction, you know,
between like that fear and thenlimiting yourself and just being
open to the process.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, it's more like I have to do this.
I would say I would argue thatit's more like I have to do this
.
I you know, you kind of justgot to put your vision, so to
speak, on the goal, and then youjust go forward and you do it,
and I don't know where thatcomes from.
One way or another, I'm no heroone way.
(17:29):
And they still achieve it.
And I think, how in the worlddo you keep going to do that?
And so mine happens to bevision loss.
But a lot of other people aredoing some pretty incredible
things out there.
A lot of other people are doingsome pretty incredible things
out there.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, I mean you lost your vision and then you were
brave enough to go to cookingschool, of all things, and you
are 59 years old when you wentto culinary school.
I mean I'm wondering right now,if I went back to culinary
school, how I would actually do,because when I went.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I was pretty, it was in my 20s.
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
To be fair, I had no idea what I was getting into
yeah, so okay, so you graduatefrom culinary school and then
tell me what happens after that.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I went to teach immediately at the Commission
for the Blind, and so that wasin June.
In fact, the woman I spoke ofearlier that had taught me how
to cook under blindfold had anexperience happen where she was
set to teach that semester.
I wasn't, and so I startedteaching on Monday.
(18:37):
When I graduated on a Thursdayoh wow, on a Thursday.
So I started teachingimmediately in June and then was
sent home in March of 2020, aswe all were till the world could
figure out how to navigate aworld with COVID in it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now, Was there any thought of going online with
your cooking?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
You know it's a good question Teaching people to cook
remotely.
There's a lot of risk in that.
I don't know how to do it.
If I'm standing with youhand-on-hand and you can't see
in front of a stove, I can keepenough hand-on-hand with you
what you're doing, I can talk toyou.
(19:17):
I can make sure that you'redoing what I tell you.
If it's remotely, I reallycan't.
You're doing what I tell you.
If it's remotely, I reallycan't.
So that's the other thing aboutthe blind kitchen is a lot of my
customers are people that havecooked for their families and
been, you know, for Christmas orHanukkah or Thanksgiving and
they're known as the cooks.
But now, often because ofage-related vision loss, they
(19:42):
don't know how to get back inthere and cook.
They don't know how to not getcut how could I possibly not
burn myself?
And so that the blind kitchen.
Some of the most emotionalemails that make me emotional
are the ones where they say youknow, this has helped me get my
identity back.
I now can cook for my family,and I mean something like a
(20:04):
turkey, if you're making that,or a big roast chicken for your
family.
A lot of the recipes will saycook it until the juices run
clear, cook it till it's goldenbrown.
Cook it until it's no longerpink.
If you don't have access tothat information, that's where,
like a talking thermometer comesin.
Now I can hear through my earswhat temperature, and if it's at
(20:25):
165 or higher, I'm good.
I'm not going to make my familysick.
But if you don't know abouttalking thermometers or how to
use them, you're kind of stuck.
I wouldn't try and cook aturkey for people I love without
a talking thermometer.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
There's no way, yeah, yeah, without a talking
thermometer, there's no way.
Yeah, yeah, so it.
So it's just back to you knowthey were going remote for being
versus in person.
So I mean I know when covidhappened for me, because I teach
cooking classes as well and Ihad right.
It's like either you go totallyremote or you had to pause
(21:03):
right, you're right, pause yourcooking for a while.
So that was a big part of whatI ended up doing was going
remote, but I can understandthat for you and to teach people
who have vision loss and areblind, that you need to be very
hands on with them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And I get the request all the time Are you going to
do cooking lessons?
Are you going to do cookinglessons?
Are you going to do cookinglessons?
And I haven't figured out howto do it without, because the
insurance company is, first ofall, going to not be very happy
about it and I am insuredbecause I teach workshops and
and things, so I need to be.
(21:40):
I can't sell blades.
That's another thing I'm notable to do.
People are always asking merecommend them, knives and stuff
, and it's like you know you'regonna have to do your own
research on that.
I teach blind skills.
I don't sell just regularknives.
I'll sell you.
I'll send you a link for aknife with a guide on it so that
your bread slices are exactlythe same or your brisket is
(22:02):
exactly the same, becausethere's a guide that helps on
the connected to the knife.
But that's very blind friendly.
Just a regular serrated knifeis.
It isn't what I do right.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Well, I'm curious what kind of knife do you do you
use just on like a personallevel?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
sure I use uh, I've got a eight inch chef knife, and
then I've got a serrated breadknife, and then I've got several
serrated paring knives andthat's all I use for as a rule.
Yeah, yeah, they're just.
I don't need that many knives.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, I agree with you , I don't need right.
When you see those knife setssometimes with 20 knives in
there like you don't, yeah, youdon't need those, you just need
one good chef's knife.
If you even just had that, thatwould be.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Agreed Perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So let's talk about, then, some of those adaptive
tools and that make cookingeasier when you have vision loss
and are blind, like I know wehad talked about.
Or I went on your website and Iknow you had the Cut Glove
right and as I was looking atsome of your adaptive tools, I'm
(23:18):
like these are just perfect forjust like my clients, like
people who have a lot of feararound cooking.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's true, it's true, and most of these aren't made
for blind people.
They're made for people thathave fear around cooking or that
work in a commercial kitchenwhere an insurance company will
require every cook.
Whenever they're cutting, theyhave to wear them, and I've got
really strong knife skills.
I'm sure you do too, becausethey force you to in culinary
school.
But this cut glove that you'retalking about, it's an amazing
(23:49):
tool and I actually have extrasmall ones because people want
them for their children, even iftheir children can see they're
a little bit stretchy and youput them on the hand that's
holding the food and the knifecannot come through it.
I have videos, audio describedvideos on my website where I'm
holding, wearing the glove on myone hand with my palm facing
(24:12):
towards the ceiling, and I'vegot a sharp.
That was a 10 inch chef knifejust for the looks of it, and I
slide it back and forth on thepalm of my hand, the blade of
the knife, and I can feel themovement and I can feel pressure
, but it doesn't cut through.
My skin is just fine, so it's areally good thing.
So like if I'm cutting, let'ssay, like a carrot on, and I'm
(24:36):
cutting, slicing, slicing intocoins and all of a sudden that
knife hits the hand holding thecarrot and I don't expect it to
Even just barely nudges it.
It's not going to cut throughit because I'm wearing the glove
.
If I'd not been wearing theglove by the time that knife my
brain got the message that theknife has made contact with my
(24:57):
skin.
It would be cut.
And so the other place thatworks beautifully in is with
grading foods, because boxgraders are wonderful tools but
they are weird.
They're angled, they're slanted.
They got four different sideswith multiple different numbers
and sizes of blades and it'sreally hard to judge when you're
(25:19):
too close to it.
And so I don't know of any cook.
I did it when I used to be ableto see I would get that knuckle
skin right in there.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, there's nothing .
It's not being careless oranything like that.
It's just a difficult tool tonavigate using your eyes, and if
you don't have any vision atall, it's difficult to navigate
as well.
But if you're wearing thatglove, you're going to be
grating, grating, grating, andall of a sudden you'll feel snag
or pressure or contact when youdon't expect to.
You're not going to be bleedingand your skin won't be in the
(25:51):
food.
You'll just stop.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, so the cut glove.
I mean, I think when I saw yourvideo, when you were just like
rubbing a knife back and forthover it, I mean, and I've seen
the cut glove before, like overthe years, and like I've never
recommended this to any of myclients and I definitely will
start doing that, because Ithink that is a number one fear
(26:17):
for people is using a knife,because I always I'm sure you do
this too I mean, you need asharp knife, right?
You don't want to have a dullknife.
You want your knives to be niceand sharp, right?
Yeah, that scares people.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, if I'm trying to cut that carrot with a dull
knife, I'm going to be pushinghave to push harder.
And I'm going to force thatdull knife through it, I'm going
to get cut worse.
And it's going to force thatdull knife through it, I'm going
to get cut worse.
And it's going to be a jaggedcut, not a smooth cut if I do
cut myself.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So it seems illogical but a sharp knife is much safer
than a dull one.
Yes, I tell this to people allthe time that make sure your
knives are sharp.
That's safer than a dull knife,and I think people yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's illogical, it doesn't make sense in your brain
.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I think people.
Yeah, it's illogical, itdoesn't make sense in your brain
.
Yes, exactly, but the cut glovemakes a ton of sense.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Anyone who's?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
then fearful of using a knife.
What other tools, adaptivetools, do you promote?
Or what are your like top?
You know couple of tools thatyou feel like people couldn't
live without Sure.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So one of them is called an auto measure spout and
it's just a spout.
It doesn't have any powersource or anything.
It goes on top of a bottle andof olive oil, vegetable oil,
vinegar.
whatever you are going to use atablespoon, the only measurement
I have is a tablespoon and youtip it upside down and it
dispenses exactly one tablespoonof like olive oil in your pan
or your bowl, and then it stopsautomatically.
It's made of plastic.
(27:50):
It's got ball bearings in it.
It's magic.
I don't know how it works,that's not my job to know how
it's, just to source it.
And then if I want a secondtablespoon, I just have to turn
the bottle upside up again andthen upside down and you can
hear it dispensing, and then itstops, even if you're holding it
upside down.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That is a great tool as well, because I know that for
my clients too.
They just say like, becauseI'll sometimes just not measure.
You know, I'm sort ofeyeballing it and you know, but
when the recipe says twotablespoons of olive oil and
you're new to cooking, Exactly,People are following that to the
letter, and so that's.
(28:30):
I love that tool also.
That's a great great, ratherthan having to get out a
measuring spoon and you knowlike taking that extra step.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Oh yeah, and especially if you can't see with
vision loss, if you're tryingto measure like a teaspoon of
vanilla vanilla is veryexpensive.
And so you've got to hold thespoon with one hand, hold the
bottle with the other hand, poura little bit, put the bottle
down, touch.
Is it full?
Oh, I don't think so.
Let me pour a little more inthere.
Put the bottle down, touch itand you only know when it's
(29:09):
level is.
When it overflows and even whenI could see, I had a hard time
knowing exactly when it waslevel.
It's hard to do, but ours areshaped like ladles.
So if you want a teaspoon ofvanilla, it's a regular teaspoon
, but it'll have one dot in thehandle.
If it's a third, it'll havethree dots in the handle.
They're made out of stainlesssteel.
If it's a regular teaspoon, butit'll have one dot in the
handle.
If it's a third, it'll havethree dots in the handle.
They're made out of stainlesssteel.
If it's a quarter spoon or aquarter cup, there will be four
(29:30):
dots.
So it's very easy.
It's not braille, you just haveto be able to count.
But the handle's faced towardsthe ceiling for the wet
measuring.
So we send a little spoutedpitcher like a little beaker,
basically it.
So we send a little spoutedpitcher like a little beaker,
basically it's only about aninch around and two inches tall,
and you put the spoon in it.
And I've always said, if theywere going to take my vision,
(29:51):
they should have given me athird hand, because I never have
enough hands.
Yes, but now if I put thatspoon in there, it's standing up
by itself.
For the most part it's a littlebit slanted, but that doesn't
matter, I'll explain in a minute.
So then I take that bottle ofvanilla and I pour it into that
where the spoon is standing upin the little pitcher, and I
(30:13):
overflow the cavity of the spoon, not the pitcher but the cavity
of the spoon.
So that way when I go to liftthat spoon up, if I don't hear
anything drop, I know it's level, if I don't hear anything and I
can just pull my target bowlvery close to where that is,
pick it up, don't hear anythingdrop.
I know I've got an accuratemeasurement and there won't be
(30:34):
any waste, because we also senda small funnel with the spoon
set and I can put that funnel inthe bottle.
So instead of the opening ofthe vanilla bottle the two ounce
ones it's about the size ofyour pinky Now I put the funnel
in there and now I've got alittle over three inches for a
target.
So it's very quick and easy forme to just pour that overflow
(30:55):
vanilla into there.
So I got an accuratemeasurement and I didn't waste
any.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
That makes a ton of sense as well.
And I, yeah, because I knowthat just all of those little
things I mean, just withouthaving vision loss, that that
people get nervous or fearfulabout, am I measuring correctly?
Am I you know all of just?
Am I doing it right?
(31:21):
And that just all those thingsjust make it so much easier.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Right, right and I also.
We started out talking aboutfears of getting back in the
kitchen and what.
I've.
Of course, my venue has to dowith vision loss, but I think
this is true of a lot of people,whether you can see or not.
One is the fear, of course,cutting yourself and then
burning yourself.
Those are very real fears.
(31:46):
If you don't, if you aren'tafraid of that, you're not going
to last very long.
I mean, your body is tellingyou this is not.
You know, you're holding aknife.
You could get hurt.
It's important to note that.
But you can overcome it withthe right tools and strategies.
But there are other fears wetalked about the fear of make
your family or friends sick.
That's a real fear that if Idon't cook that turkey or
(32:08):
chicken long enough for thatmeat or whatever, it's not that
it's not going to taste good orit's going to look unattractive,
it is going to make them sick.
And so you've got to be very ontop of that and have a strategy
to make sure that you know it'scooked enough.
But the other fears that peoplehave are fears of being
embarrassed, and this definitelyapplies to vision loss.
(32:30):
But I think your audience isgoing to understand this the
fear of embarrassment.
Am I going to look messy?
Am I going to look disorganized?
Am I going?
And then the other part is thefood presentation.
If I can't see the food and I'mhanding you a plate, what is it
?
You can see it, I can't.
What's it going to look like?
(32:50):
Is it going to be attractive ornot?
And because we can't.
So organization, that's a humanthing.
Some people are more organized,naturally, some are less
organized, but there arestrategies you can do to not
look unorganized.
And talking about the vanilla,one thing that I couldn't do
without in my kitchen and I'vetalked a lot of sighted people
(33:13):
into using these are called worktrays, but they're basically
cafeteria trays.
So when I'm pouring thatvanilla, I'm going to work.
It's like a cafeteria tray thatyou'd get in a school or a
hospital and you just it's gotthose little slightly raised
edges around the edges.
So, first of all, now myworkspace is contained, it's a
(33:38):
known variable.
It's not the entire stretch ofthe edges.
So, first of all, now myworkspace is contained, it's a
known variable.
It's not the entire stretch ofthe counter, it is that tray in
front of me and if I want to getout my ingredients for making
cookies or whatever, I cangather those all and put them on
a different work tray.
Now they're all in a predictable, defined place, and so when I'm
doing that vanilla, I spilledthings when I could see.
I mean everybody spills wet ordry ingredients.
(33:58):
But instead of that, vanillarunning across the counter down
the front of my cupboards ontothe floor, I've got to clean
that all up.
Now it's probably going to becontained in that tray, and so
that's another strategy.
I could not do without my worktrays.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, I love that idea.
I mean, just while you'resaying that, I'm thinking that I
use when I'm teaching a cookingclass.
I put everything on rimmedbaking sheets.
Yeah, Kind of the same thing.
You know just to likedistinguish.
Like, this is the saladingredients, this is the salad
dressing ingredient.
You know just to.
You know to help organizemyself, but I think that's such
(34:37):
a great idea for even morefearful cooks, and you know just
people who are learning how tocook as a way of organizing you
went to culinary school, one ofthe first terms you learned was
mise en place, and that meanseverything in its place.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
So one of the things that most cooks do that cause a
problem is whether you can seeor not is you're trying to solve
problems in real time, tryingto find the vanilla, trying to
find this, trying to find thatMost people start to cook and
they're not ready to cook yet.
You need to get all your stuffin place Get your garnishes
ready, Get your potatoes ready,Get everything in place before
(35:21):
you turn the stove on or theoven.
As much as you can.
Different recipes call fordifferent steps, but most people
aren't ready to cook when theyturn on the stove.
They don't have everything inplace to get going, and it's a
pleasure if you've goteverything, if you're not
scrambling to find the carrotsor the potato peeler or whatever
(35:42):
you're looking for.
That stresses me out If thestove is on and I'm trying to
find the lid to that pan.
It's not a good thing.
It's very stressful.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, exactly.
But it's pleasant, yes, and Itotally agree with stressful
yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I am pleasant.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yes, and I totally agree with you.
Yeah, the mise en place issomething I always impart in my
cooking classes.
And and just to get yourselforganized, know what's coming in
the recipe, know what you haveto be.
You don't want to know thatlike when you're five steps down
in the recipe, that, oh shoot,I needed to have cooked brown
(36:18):
rice, which is going to takeanother hour to cook.
It's anything like that.
That right, look over yourrecipes know what's coming to
you, but also, most importantly,to have everything there right
on your tray or, you know, justin your space.
Such a good point.
Do you teach remotely?
(36:38):
I do teach remotely.
Well, you know, like I saidwhen COVID happened, I mean I
was all in person until COVIDand then I went totally online
for a while.
So right now I do hybrid.
You know, I do some in personand some and some online.
(36:59):
I'm going to take your cookingclass.
Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I would love it.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
That would be, that would be wonderful, it'd be fun.
And so, and going back to you,know what you were just saying
about the, the fears aroundbeing in the kitchen and like
just this.
You used the word embarrassment.
I know that that's for my, justthe women.
(37:26):
This is especially like Igetting the backlash from their
kids or this doesn't taste good,or like that fear of is it
going to taste good, is it goingto, is everyone going to?
You know, give me a pat on theback for doing a good job and
(37:50):
being good enough, and that justthe fear of their spouse, their
partner, not liking it, andthis is these are just things
that really, I think, blockwomen at least the women I've
worked with Absolutely, and thesecret to that is is make sure
(38:15):
they're really.
We've been talking about likejust using adaptive tools, like
the cut glove, or organizingyourself, the mise en place,
having all your ingredientsready, builds that confidence in
the kitchen yes, Right, I meanit does you know and you have to
practice.
Right, I mean you know you knowgoing to cooking school, that
(38:37):
was all it was a year longpractice Right, I mean it does
you know and you have topractice.
Right, I mean you know you knowgoing to cooking school, that
was all it was a year longpractice Right, absolutely Six
hours a day.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, and then two hours of class time.
Four hours a day, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
And then you have to keep on cooking, right?
I mean, you have to keep thislike the skill oh yeah, oh yeah,
warmed up like every day yes,it is, yeah, truly, truly skill.
So how so?
I'm I'm just curious at.
So, after you know, covethappened is that when you opened
the blind kitchen no, well, I,yes it was.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I was organizing it during it and getting my you
know the, the business licenseand all that.
But I went back to teach at theCommission for the Blind
because I love teaching inperson.
You obviously do too, that'swhat you do.
But I did that for about a yearand a half and I was starting
to drop balls on both ends.
You know fulfilling orders anddoing videos for the Blind
(39:34):
Kitchen.
You know fulfilling orders anddoing videos for the blind
kitchen and then teaching.
Teaching cooking is a you haveto be very mindful.
You have to make sure you haveall the ingredients, all the
supplies, all the everything,because you don't.
You want your students to havea successful experience and not
because you forgot to buy thevanilla or whatever.
So I was dropping things.
(39:54):
And when you have two or threestudents two or three days a
week, they're each having adifferent lesson.
So that's a lot of planninggoing on.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
A lot of planning.
Yes, yeah, cooking classes takea lot of work to plan them,
then to make sure you have theingredients get all your stuff
prepped together, you know, andthen execute the class.
So it all times out and, yeah,it's more work.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
In the right amount of time.
Right yes.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
More work than people imagine and cleanup.
Thank you very much.
Yes, yes, and then cleanup.
Yes, I forgot about that.
Yeah, that adds an extra, youknow hour.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, exactly.
So I was dropping balls on bothends and I decided I had to
make a choice.
So I decided to go with theblind kitchen.
I was getting really goodfeedback on it and people were
saying this is making adifference, and there were two
other teachers at the commissionthat could continue teaching
(40:54):
legally blind adults, and so Idecided to go full-time with the
Blind Kitchen and it's been areal trip.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, tell me about it, Tell me what you do on your
website.
I mean, I looked a little bitand I know that you sell some of
these adaptive tools.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, Well, we have over 90 now and some of them are
organized in collections like acutting and chopping collection
.
But an individual doesn't needa whole collection of cutting
and chopping tools.
Everybody has differentstrengths, but those are mostly
sold to agencies that teachpeople with vision loss how to
cook so that they have a toolkitof things they can go to.
(41:33):
If this one doesn't work forthat particular student, maybe
this other finger guard willwork.
So we make audio describedvideos so that people, no matter
what your level of vision lossis, if you're completely blind,
you're going to know what'shappening in that video.
If I'm not talking anddescribing what I'm doing, maybe
(41:54):
I need to concentrate.
Then we have a professionalvoice voiceover and talk tells
the people watching the videowhat I'm doing when I'm not
talking, and that all takes alot of time and editing and
things like that.
I've got an extremely good team.
I've got a web designer, I'vegot a videographer and
(42:15):
photographer and I have a socialmedia person.
So my husband and I and oneother person do the packaging
and shipping and we get ordersevery single day and I'm really
looking forward to sourcing thatout.
We're not at the point where Ican pay someone to do that full
time.
But I really am a.
(42:35):
I think it's important to knowwhat your strengths are, and I
am a cook and I am a teacher,and that is where I excel and if
I'm spending a lot of timeputting things into bags, and
the reason I'm able to do thatis every tool is packed in its
own bag.
That's marked in both largeprint and Braille, so that's how
(42:57):
I can.
I can't do the part where, well,I suppose I could if I had to.
But I don't have to put thestuff in one cardboard box and
then put a label on it, becausenone of that's done in large
print or Braille, and then mailit out.
So that's what our days aredoing is I process the orders, I
answer emails.
(43:17):
There are so many people thathave vision loss that want to go
to culinary school.
Wow, yeah, I had no idea.
I mean, my friend, yeah, sureyou will.
I mean, I think the world ismore like that and so I get a
lot of it.
So maybe I'll start a culinaryschool for blind people.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Probably not, I'm getting too old for all this.
Oh, that would be a fantasticidea.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I love it.
Lots of work, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
But you truly are like a.
I mean, I'm sure you are such afantastic role model for other
people who are blind.
I mean, if you can go to amainstream cooking school and
look where you are now, I meanthat's really something to be
(44:03):
proud of.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
No, thank you, I appreciate that.
And the other piece that I geta lot of communication is being
an entrepreneur, a blindentrepreneur.
There aren't that many of usout there.
There are some.
There are more blindentrepreneurs than there are
blind chefs.
Trust me on this one, butthat's the other piece that I
feel like I can give blindpeople advice, say, hey, you can
(44:28):
do this, you know, but nobodygives it to you.
You've got work, just likenobody gave you your culinary
school degree.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, well, yes, and I think that you have such a
great attitude.
I mean it sounds like you, youknow, even if you're like doing
it scared, even if you know ifit has felt scary to you, you're
still doing it and you're doingfantastic things with your
(44:57):
business and your cooking.
Sounds like the possibilitiesare almost endless.
I mean you could do a lot goingforward.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
True, true, just like any you know in the cooking
world, it's a thing.
Now People are into it.
So, yeah, people are very intoit.
Yes, exactly, and they're moreeducated.
Thing now People are into it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
So yeah, there's a lot of different directions.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yes, exactly, and they're more educated than they
used to be on it.
Yes, I mean I could probablywatch the cooking shows and
learn as much as I learned inculinary school.
Now they talk about the art andthe science and the history.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yes, exactly no, I agree with you.
So the Blind Kitchen, where canpeople find you?
Give me your website and I willput these links in the show
notes and all your info, buttell me how people can find you,
because I think that for justmy listeners, who are, who have
(45:58):
their vision or not I mean toget some of these adaptive tools
is like can be a game changerthank you for that.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah, so, um, it's theblindkitchencom, and make
sure you put the word the inthere, because there is a tv
show called blind kitchen, wherein Boston they take people that
can see perfectly well and putblindfolds on them and then have
them do challenges.
Oh no, we could talk for hours.
It's pros and cons, but that'sBlind Kitchen.
(46:28):
I am theblindkitchencom.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It's a very clean website.
I don't have any affiliate adsor anything like that.
It's going to be very friendlyto software that helps blind and
visually impaired people tonavigate the web.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
So yeah, well, that's great, and you have recipes on
there too.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I do and I think you'll appreciate this too.
So if you're reading a recipeand you can see they're going to
say it's one cup of flour, twoeggs, half a cup of sugar or
whatever, they're going to havethe ingredients listed.
And then when you go down,they're going to say cream the
butter and the eggs or the sugarup to the recipe how many eggs
(47:13):
was it?
How much sugar was it?
I put the amounts in the recipecream, you know, one stick of
butter and one cup of sugar, andI put that in the thing.
But the other thing I do is I,because I am a teacher when I'm
doing the recipe, when I'm doingthe ingredients, if there's
(47:40):
something special about theingredients or something that I
think people have a questionabout, like I did a peach
bourbon cobbler on, that is oneof the recipes.
And so when I talked, when Isaid you know, you need, you
know, 12 ounces of peaches orwhatever, and then I said if you
use canned peaches they'll work, but you got to do this.
They're going to be softer.
They're not going to be if youuse fresh ones, it's going to be
about four large peaches.
(48:00):
You know things that peoplewill have questions about, or
frozen peaches.
So I I do so, I have ingredientnotes and then when I'm doing
the recipe, I'll do it, startingwith the garnishes and the
produce first, because if I havethat work tray I'm talking
about, I'm trying to minimizedishes If I cut up my protein,
like the chicken on there, andseason it, that work tray is now
(48:21):
no longer usable for me unlessI wash it and disinfect it and
everything like that.
But if I do all the produce onit first, set it off to the side
, do the potatoes next and setit off to the side, measure it,
get it all done, I'm going tohave a lot less dishes.
So it goes through and itdescribes why I did that step
first.
It's teaching you so you canapply it to the next recipe that
(48:45):
you do when I'm not there tohelp you with it.
The other thing it does is thatI put the tool I use to do that
particular step, so if I amdoing something.
There's another thing that'sincredible because I use like a
lot of parsley, cilantro,rosemary, things like that fresh
herbs is.
(49:06):
You take a little bowl likeabout a six ounce bowl and you
put the parsley you know treesin there and then take a pair of
scissors and just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut into the bowl, chop,
chop, chop, chop, chop.
It is amazing and it keeps theoils and all those little pieces
of parsley.
They're now not all over yourcutting board, it keeps them in
(49:27):
the bowl and you just cut, cut,cut, cut, cut.
And then you check Nope, it'sstill a little bit too big.
Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
It's amazing how uniform andconsistent it is and it's all
contained in the little bowl.
It's a game changer.
So those are the kind of thingsthat I put in the recipe.
That doesn't cost you any money.
You just have to have a pair ofkitchen chairs and a little
(49:48):
bowl and you can do it are kindof genius.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I mean just even, you know, talking about just taking
from the ingredients andputting that, then the
ingredients, again in thedirections, and then in the
directions saying like whattools you're going to need.
And I mean those are all.
If you don't mind, I'm going toadopt some of those for some of
my recipes.
I think that this is, you know,this is what people really want
and need, and you know thatrather than I mean for me, like
(50:20):
looking at a recipe, I caneasily go up and down, but you
know, when you're, when you area new cook, with fear and you
know doing it right, that havingall of those other little steps
is just people appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
It just makes it easier.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Yes, it just makes it easier and why not make it
easier?
Those are just, yeah, really.
You know, cutting with thescissors and herbs over a bowl,
all genius.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah, great, great tips.
I can't claim credit forinventing them, but for putting
them in the recipes and stufflike that.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, no, but really really, you know just some
things that I probably havenever thought about doing.
You know, and because I don'tknow, no one's really like asked
me for that, but now that yousaid it I'm like, oh, that's
such a good idea.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Great idea.
It helps keep clean andorganized too.
Yes, yes absolutely Well.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Deorah, this has been such a pleasure to talk to you
and um I your.
Your story is just reallyinfectious.
I mean, I just think it's.
I think your website soundsfantastic and I hope you know
great things come for you, moreyou know, and I can't wait to
see your future cooking school,which I hope you manifest.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I'll need an assistant principal.
That'll be you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yes, we could talk.
That would be great.
So thank you so much.
I will put all your links inthe show notes and hope you have
a great day.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
This has been fun, yep.
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