In our latest episode, my two brothers and I share our heart-wrenching and yet inspiring journeys through prostate cancer. From early diagnosis to treatment pathways, our discussions delve into the emotional and mental health implications of navigating this battle. You’ll hear firsthand the importance of regular check-ups and community support in managing prostate health, especially for Black men who are at a higher risk.
We've come together not just as siblings but as advocates for better health awareness. Our stories reflect resilience and hope, reminding every listener that facing health challenges can be a journey filled with support, love, and strength. With insights on handling diagnosis, managing the emotional impact, and the power of family support, this episode serves as a powerful call to action for men everywhere to prioritize their health.
Whether you’re currently on your own health journey or know someone who is, our message is clear: you’re not alone. Let’s break the silence and encourage each other to seek the care we need. Tune in and take the essential steps to empower yourself or someone you care about. Don’t forget to share your thoughts and experiences with us after listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grantley Martelly (00:11):
This is the Real Health Black Men Podcast,
where we empower men to takecontrol of their health.
We provide vital informationand build community support.
Join us as we discusseverything from major health
challenges to mental wellness tophysical fitness.
So if you're ready to level upyour health and your life,
you're in the right place.
(00:31):
Let's get started.
In this episode, I am happy andprivileged to sit down with my
two older brothers and share ourprostate cancer journey with
you.
We live in three differentcountries and we've all three
(00:55):
been challenged with facingprostate cancer, and we want, as
we share today, we hope thatwhat you hear will be an
encouragement to you, regardlessof where you are in your
journey or whatever you may begoing through at this time.
This is a part of our podcastwhere we talk to men who are
(01:15):
experiences or have experienceswith health crises, and this
time we're talking aboutprostate cancer.
And this time we're talkingabout prostate cancer.
And these also happen to be mytwo older brothers, george and
Arthur or Albert.
So today I'm going to talk tothem about their experiences
(01:39):
about prostate cancer and wherethey are right now.
We're going to begin with you,arthur or Albert, tell us a
little bit about yourself andthen give us your experience
with prostate cancer or otherhealth issues that you want to
talk about.
Arthur Leonce (01:58):
Good evening.
I serve as a minister in theChurch of the Nazarene for about
nearly 40 years.
I retired in 2017.
I was first diagnosed withprostate cancer at the age of 57
(02:21):
by my doctor when he told methat my post PSA count was 5.8.
That was in 2010, November,when I went for my regular
checkup.
He then sent me to a specialiston prostate cancer.
(02:44):
The doctor's name was Dr Emtig.
In 2011, I went to Dr Emtig andat that time he took a biopsy
where he examined and recognizedthat there were 12 cells, but
only one was affected Thereby.
(03:06):
He said that we can wait andwatch and see what happens.
We decided to wait.
Dr Empton then called me in 2012and informed me that there's a
program which will come onlinein 2012, in March, if I would be
interested, but the cost wouldhave been there about $54,000,
(03:33):
which I did not have at the time.
And he proceeded and I wentback home and I forgot about it.
But then he called me back formy examination and told me that
he's going to do the operation.
I said I have no money, doctor.
He said don't you worry, I willtake care of it.
(03:54):
So he said that my insurancewill cover a percentage and he
will cover the rest.
And so we proceeded with thearrangement to have the prostate
done, and so we proceeded withthe arrangement to have the
posture done.
I had that done in 2012, March2012, thereabouts, and it was a
(04:20):
procedure that was done at aprivate hospital.
It didn't take that long.
It was a procedure calledBarkie therapy, where some 25
radiation tablets were insertedinto my rectum and burned in.
In counseling me, he did tellme that if I did go ahead with
this procedure, that at a laterdate, if the cancer should
return, there would be no cureor procedure to be able to stop
(04:44):
it.
I told him that's okay, doc, Ihave no problem with that.
Yes, I had my prostate done, theoperation done, in 2012.
From then on, all I had somelight challenges, such as going
to the bathroom to urinate.
Procedure was pretty difficult.
(05:06):
Anytime I go to any place thatis too cold, I find I have to
run to the bathroom veryregularly.
Apart from that, I have not hadany other effect from the
operation.
I've been living a good life,healthy, and my last examination
by my doctor last year, mycount was prostate count was 0.1
(05:31):
.
And so I believe that I amstill, and that would be about
12 years, I think, since I hadthat procedure done.
So I think I am doing quitewell at the moment.
Thank you.
Grantley Martelly (05:46):
So, Arthur, how old are you now?
Arthur Leonce (05:50):
I am 74.
Grantley Martelly (05:52):
74, and you were diagnosed at 57?
, 57.
57.
Okay, I had another questionjust for our viewers and
listeners what country are youin?
I'm living?
Arthur Leonce (06:04):
right now in Barbados.
Grantley Martelly (06:06):
In Barbados.
The procedure was diagnosed inBarbados and it was also treated
in Barbados.
Arthur Leonce (06:14):
Yes, treated in Barbados.
Grantley Martelly (06:16):
Okay, we'll come back.
Let's go over to George andyour story and then we'll come
back and have some discussion.
So again, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
My name is George.
George Leonce (06:37):
Ann Williams.
I am 74 years of age.
I am a Sanctification by birth,Asian by adoption, Trinidadian
by marriage.
Grantley Martelly (06:53):
And you live in Trinidad, right now,
presently, I live in Trinidad.
George Leonce (06:58):
As to my health, I was diagnosed with cancer
about 2010 after consultationwith my doctors, not 2010,.
I started consultation with thedoctor in 2010.
But during that time I may havemissed out a year or two for
(07:21):
the intestine, a year or twobefore they get tested.
And in 2014, when I did returnto him, he explained to me there
seemed to be a smallenlargement and he gave me some
medication to take and also thatof drinking a lot of water.
(07:44):
When I did return to him abouta month later, two months later,
he said definitely, there is aenhancement and he did a biopsy
and it shows that my PSC was8.37 and that it was cancerous
and it was aggressive, cancerousand it was aggressive.
Thereby I started to.
(08:05):
He suggested what I would wantto do.
I said, definitely, we want todo surgery.
He did go into detail,explaining to me the difference
between the two systems, the twomethods that there would be in
order to do a biotic culture.
That I let him know.
There was no anxiety in me andno anxiousness with the surgery,
(08:25):
and then I proceeded to seekmeans by which to address that
problem of removing or havingthe cancer.
It was suggested that I wouldgo to Martinique to do the
surgery and seeking means bywhich to raise the finance that
would be needed because it wouldbe quite expensive.
(08:47):
I came to Trinidad to get asecond opinion as to the cost
and I was told in Trinidaddollars, that I would at least
have to pay $45,000 for thatprocedure.
I returned home to St Luciapraying that God would open a
way for me.
During that time, one of myfellow ministers called me quite
(09:12):
unexpectedly and asked me whatare you doing about your
situation?
How are you addressing it?
I said presently we are tryingto have a fundraiser.
He said I have someone that canhelp you get this surgery done
at the minimal cost.
And he put me in contact with asister from his church who had
(09:32):
just returned from New York andexplained to me that she has
been encouraged by a doctor inone of the Queens Hospital.
If she has anyone or a friendwho is in a situation like mine
so she can refer them to me tothem.
So in October 2016, I did go toNew York to seek medical
(09:56):
assistance and she wanted.
Doctors in New York would tellme, and they did confirm that
there was cancer, but the cancerhad not processed to the bone
state.
After I did my MRI andeverything else.
I had therefore my what do youcall it?
Grantley Martelly (10:18):
my Gleason scores.
George Leonce (10:21):
The Gleason scores was far below what I was
told, and the biopsy shows thatthere were 12 samples that were
taken, four shows of cancerousand three negative, and the
total of the Gleason score isseven and not eight as I was
told when I was in St Lucia, andit's not as aggressive as 8 to
10.
8 to 10 is more aggressive.
(10:43):
So with that, they suggestedthat they would do surgery on
the 10th of July 2017.
Again, they went through theprocess of explaining to me that
the two procedures that wereavailable at that time and still
is by which you can addressthis problem it's like a cancer
(11:04):
surgery.
Grantley Martelly (11:09):
They see radiation.
George Leonce (11:12):
I went for surgery with the knowledge of
all the side effects.
I had my surgery on the 10th ofJuly 2017.
I overnight in the hospitalNext morning I was at home Next
day at least.
I overnight in the hospitalNext morning I was at home.
Next day at least I went home.
Difficulties of recovery Ithink the most difficult part of
(11:32):
recovering after surgery isyour urination.
After that, everything hasbecome fine.
There are the after surgery.
You have problems.
You have to wear your pads fora couple of days so that you're
not embarrassed yourself, andthat I did for a couple of
(11:54):
months.
But as 2017, up to this moment,I have had no side effects from
the surgery.
My score last time I checked myPSA it was about 0.4 there.
I haven't done any nausea so Icannot give an update 0.4 or
(12:15):
0.04?
Arthur Leonce (12:17):
0.04, sorry.
George Leonce (12:20):
I can say the procedure was very simple.
There was nothing, nocomplication.
I have had no anxieties beforeor since my surgery.
Grantley Martelly (12:30):
Do you remember what your PSA was
before the surgery?
George Leonce (12:34):
8.37.
Grantley Martelly (12:36):
Oh, it was 8.37.
Prior to surgery yes.
And now it's at 0.04.
Yeah, what major adjustmentsdid you have to make after
prostate surgery, prostatecancer, or have you made any
major life adjustments?
Arthur Leonce (12:56):
For me.
I can't remember how to makeany major adjustment apart from
the fact that I'm in thebathroom very regularly, regular
, apart from like I adjust myoxygen, make sure that I am when
I go to my bathroom, make surethat I empty my bladder as much
as I can, but apart from that Ican't remember having to make
(13:20):
any major adjustments in my life.
I eat what I've got.
I work, I work hard, still work, do my work as usual, but not
after effect.
I continue my life as usual.
No, after effect.
I continue my life as usual.
Grantley Martelly (13:31):
What about you, George?
George Leonce (13:33):
I was several of the same things After my surgery
.
I think the most challengingaspect was the facul, the
urinary agent.
As I said, that was a majorfactor.
After about two to three monthsof having to even there was no
(13:54):
concern or judges wearingpampers.
I was quite comfortable with itand I think being comfortable
in making those changes will notaffect you as much as if you
are hesitant and seeing it as anegative as far as you being a
man, having to wear such a pieceof underwear.
I wear it quite comfortably andthat was the only adjustment
(14:17):
that had to be made and I waswilling to accept it as part of
the process, part of recoveryand part of what you would have
to go through.
Besides that, I haven't had tomake.
I haven't had to make any majoradjustments in my lifestyle.
(14:37):
I continue to eat as I used to.
I am not on any special diet.
I still eat my meat, I stilldrink my.
I would say I stopped usingsugar a long time before that.
I don't use sugar Milk.
I don't use.
Lately I started eating somecontracted milk, but I stopped
(15:00):
that altogether even before.
So, as far as JRR Cardozo isconcerned, I didn't use any Even
before and even when I wasdiagnosed with the cancer.
I'm reading on the informationbecause I had a book that was
explaining those things to me.
Those are things that I shouldavoid.
So dairy products I avoided,but I did avoid them as much as
(15:24):
possible, except lately I havegone back eating cheese.
This is the main thing you caneat at home.
If you have egg, it's usuallygreat.
Grantley Martelly (15:34):
So let me ask you guys, I mean, what do you
do for exercise?
George Leonce (15:40):
You have to say, for exercise I work from 6
o'clock I do landscaping andtherefore I have from 6 in the
morning to 10 or 10.30, I am ina yard, cutting grass, raking
grass and bending down.
(16:02):
That's just the exercise.
Go back home after that, like 1o'clock 12 o'clock, I take a
two-hour's rest and that goes atleast four days a week.
Arthur Leonce (16:20):
Four days a week.
What about you, arthur?
Don't work on rents.
Dave, before I started doinglandscaping, I used to do a lot
of walking.
I live in a place called Haleby, so every morning I go and walk
in the morning six o'clock,about one hour the hills, and
then when I moved to Bel Air Iused to go down to Gown Beach.
I used to walk from the end ofHoliday Inn right down to the
(16:43):
end of the helicopter, if youknow where it is helicopter base
.
AI Announcer (16:46):
Probably about two miles.
Arthur Leonce (16:49):
I used to walk that three times length of that
three times.
Not every day, but I used to goSaturday morning and maybe some
afternoons.
I used to do that regular andthen I started working doing
landscaping and then six o'clockin the morning until 12 o'clock
(17:10):
.
Then I go home, rest for aboutan hour or so.
Sleep Still does that.
I'm still doing that.
Grantley Martelly (17:19):
That's your exercise.
The landscaping is now yourexercise.
Arthur Leonce (17:24):
That's my exercise right now, hoping to go
back to work at the beach nextyear or so, if God give me life.
Grantley Martelly (17:30):
Yeah, the original exercise, right, hard
work.
Yeah, I was saying so.
Let me ask you, gentlemen too,about two questions.
And how did this affect yourfamilies?
How did you tell your familyabout what was going on and what
was their reactions, and howdid you make that journey
together with your families?
How did you tell your familyabout what was going on and what
was their reactions, and howdid you make that journey
(17:52):
together with your families?
Arthur Leonce (17:54):
My family.
We were able to because when Iwas diagnosed, when we were
going to the doctor, they callin myself and my wife together.
We sat down and we talked aboutit.
She was told by the doctor whatwas going to happen when he was
involved.
I was quite comfortable, mychildren were quite comfortable
(18:16):
and understood what was goingthrough.
So there was no anxiety amongmy children or my wife at the
time.
We were able to handle it verywell at the time.
It did not affect ouractivities or what we had to do.
So we were quite comfortablegoing to church, going to
whatever we had to do, asregular, as normal, as we were
(18:37):
accustomed to doing.
So there was no hindrance orany cutback in anything.
We kept our lives as usual, nohindrance.
Grantley Martelly (18:47):
George, what about you?
George Leonce (18:50):
Let me say that from a Christian perspective, I
really face life, really see ourrelationship with God.
People know a lot of thingsdifferently and when I told my
wife about in fact she wasn'teven in St Lucia at the time
(19:11):
that I had been diagnosed withcancer, I didn't see her first
expression but there was nosense of anxiety with her.
When I told the children and,by the way again, all the
children were out of the houseat the time I was alone at home
with Vincent Lucia, realizing,if I did not say so at the time,
(19:35):
I served as districtsuperintendent of the Redwood
Island District for the Churchof the Nazarene and so my
children were all adult.
My wife had gone to Trinidadfor some medication Check up.
In giving them the news fromwhat I would say they took it
(19:55):
quite okay.
There was no sense of beinganxious, daddy, what are you
going to do?
I believe, from the fact of aChristian perspective, I believe
they took it quite comfortably,before any sense of being
anxious about anything, the merefact of telling them about the
surgery.
(20:16):
Again, there was a sense ofencouragement and a sense of
relaxation.
I believe I was quite relaxedand therefore, since I was
relaxed, they were relaxed also.
I think the very rigid news ofbeing in that condition can
(20:40):
affect not us only, but also thepeople around us.
Grantley Martelly (20:46):
On that note, let's talk about the mental and
emotional aspects of it.
How have you dealt with thisprocess, this news, from the
very beginning until now, themental, emotional, any
psychological challenges inhearing the word cancer?
Arthur Leonce (21:08):
As I told my doctor when he described to me
the after effect of my procedure.
I told him, doc, I believe thatWhether if it comes it comes,
I'm going to live my life as I'msupposed to live.
I'm not going to allow it tostop me from living.
(21:29):
Right now is where I am rightnow.
So I told him we'll go througha procedure and if it does come
back, we're going to deal withit when it comes back.
But presently I'm not going toallow it to affect how I feel,
and that's how I talked to thedoctor and that's how I still
feel.
I still feel the fact that thisillness come back on me.
(21:49):
I'm not going to let it affectme how I'm supposed to live.
I'm going to live until it ends.
So that's it.
As I was telling the lady today,I gave her a ride as I was
driving with her, I should evengo there.
I tried to express and tell herit is the day that has made her
rejoice and be glad in it.
Today we live for others, butI'm looking for a better place
(22:15):
to live for myself.
Presently you are alive, giveGod's life, but you are living
for others, but I'm looking forsomewhere better where I will
live for Christ.
So, yes, many people areworried about death and I remind
people, thanking God, I'm alive.
Yeah, you thank God, you'realive, but why are you alive?
You're alive for other people.
People enjoy you, but whatabout tomorrow?
(22:38):
Are you living for tomorrow?
And that's the way I live.
I'm not allowed to affect myway of living.
George Leonce (22:45):
I would say that mentally Isaiah 26, verse 5,.
It says the Lord will keep himin perfect peace.
Whose mind is still on him, andI think that is important.
The Lord has kept my mindperfectly.
I have this piece of thing Inthe midst of the news.
(23:08):
At the moment of the news, thedoctor said how are you feeling
about it?
I said okay.
You cannot change it, so don'tbe anxious about it.
I go each day.
Each day the Lord has broughtme the knowledge of the cancer.
People would see me on thestreet and they would say Pastor
(23:31):
Leon, I hear that you're sick,how are you going?
They give me the impressionthat they got an impression that
I was sick in bed and died.
So I used to say to them I amnot sick, I only have a couple
of cells in my body that ismisbehaving and God will handle
that.
So that's how I have taken itand that's how God has helped me
(23:56):
and my family go through thisprocess.
I think it's all a matter ofyour mindset, right, how you
view your situation at that timeand how you handle it.
If you handle it alone, byyourself, then it could affect
you, but if you know that youhave a God who assists, he will
(24:17):
keep you in perfect peace.
Not to say that there isn'tsome concern I don't want to
give the impression that thereis never concern.
In the back of your mind, youmight be wondering some things,
but you don't allow them topossess you or take control of
you.
Going into a seven-hour surgery, you may find that you don't
(24:40):
know if you're going to reign.
Even when they did the biopsy,I mean, they say I take a look.
The doctors ask me when I wentafter the biopsy get the samples
, do you want anesthesia?
I said no.
I consciously listened to theirconversation as they were doing
that minor surgery on me.
Grantley Martelly (24:57):
You mean biopsy, biopsy, the biopsy.
Yeah, they usually use thelocal anesthetic.
George Leonce (25:04):
I have done three .
My first two surgeries, herniasurgeries.
They were all local.
I was conscious of bothsurgeries.
Of hernia surgery For theseven-hour surgery.
You could say, but you were inthe handsome court.
You could say, but you're inthe hands of God.
So mentally and I'm still soundI have not become over-anxious
(25:29):
over any situation in my life.
I think I'll be like thisotherwise.
Grantley Martelly (25:36):
One more question here for you is both of
you said you started out yourconversation with having your
checkups regularly.
Right, having your checkupsregularly.
You didn't feel sick, youweren't in pain, you weren't
bent over and somebody takingyou to the doctor.
(25:59):
You were going through yourannual physical checkups.
How important would you say itis for men, especially black men
, to be cognizant of attendingand getting those regular
checkups?
George Leonce (26:17):
I would say it's very important.
I did my checkup.
I started doing my checkup in2005 after I did my first
surgery hernia surgery.
After I went to the doctor formy usual after-surgery
examination, I said to thedoctor I need you to check my
(26:41):
prostate and from that time to2005, I was doing a self-help
every year.
I was supported Every year.
As I said, between 2009, 2010,2011,.
I missed out maybe two yearsand then when I did go back, he
(27:04):
said there's a swelling.
I became negligent, I becamecareless for the two years for
low-brow enteritis and whatbrought me to that place of
check-up is that I attended.
It just happened that they werehaving a medical show on the
(27:26):
boulevard in Kastri and thatsame doctor, dr Daniel.
He was the speaker and he saidthe importance of men over 50
years should start taking ontheir checkup.
And from that moment I heardthat speech, I went to him as my
surgeon and also my oncologist.
(27:49):
It's very important, go ahead.
Arthur Leonce (27:52):
I went to my doctor from, I believe, at the
age of 50.
Every year and I've beenjoining for that every year my
birthday full name from November.
I make an appointment to see mydoctor in November every year,
(28:12):
so from 50, I think it's veryimportant that we have our
physical checkup to know how weare doing.
As I said, people the doctorcannot make me well, I just want
to know what is happening in mybody.
In fact, I believe at 40, youshould start checking your
health and see where you are.
Especially today, a lot ofyoung men died suddenly from all
(28:34):
kinds of illness.
I think even now it is moreimportant even instead of 40,
that young men begin to checktheir health and see where they
are, because it's very important.
Some people are afraid, butthere's nothing.
Who are you afraid of?
You're going to die anyway.
Find out why you're dying.
How are you going to die?
What are going to kill you?
Find out we can live your lifefully and for full of purpose.
Grantley Martelly (28:57):
Okay, that's very good advice.
Thank you for helping reinforcethat and the consistency of
getting our checkups, knowingthe procedures, talking to your
doctor.
Like you said, it's not totheir health to get to know
(29:22):
what's going on in them.
Talk to their doctors, gettheir checkups.
Many times you go to the doctorfor your checkup and everything
is fine.
It's not like every yearthey're going to find something.
But to be consistent and toknow what's going on is quite
important.
My cancer journey began when Iwas 59 years old, but prior to
(29:46):
that I had been attending thedoctor regularly for checkups
and I have been doing checkupsever since I was, for probably
nearly 30 years.
My checkups Part of it was notbecause I am that conscientious.
Part of it was at that time Ihad jobs that required me to
(30:06):
have a medical check every year.
I was in the environmentalfield.
I also possessed a commercialdriver's license and between the
two of those, either thecommercial driver's license
requirement or the hazmatrequirements required that you
have a physical.
(30:27):
So because I was, in a careerthat required that then, in
order to keep my job, I had togo get those.
And the other thing aboutthat's important is that you
guys talked about how much itcosts sometimes to go to the
doctor, and even here in theUnited States I had the
privilege of having a job thatpaid for my annual physicals.
(30:48):
So I was doing fine, prettyhealthy, and the only thing that
was really started to bother mein my fifties was something
called spinal stenosis, which isbasically calcification of some
of your bones, your spine, andpinches your nerves.
So a lot of physical therapy, alot of exercise and stuff to
(31:12):
release those pinches.
So that started to happen to mein my 50s, which resulted in
having to have two backsurgeries to try to relieve the
pressure.
But in that process of learningabout spinal stenosis I also
came back to realizing exercisewas really important, because a
(31:37):
lot of the things that I wasfeeling was because I was not
exercising as much.
I had a very sedentary job.
I had gone out to theenvironmental field, now I was
in transportation and had officework, and once I started to
exercise I started to feelbetter.
All of a sudden, a lot of achesand pains that was happening
(31:59):
with the spinal stenosis wentaway.
All of a sudden a lot of achesand pains that was happening
with the spinal stenosis wentaway.
And the doctor said, yeah, thatdoes happen when you exercise.
Because you're moving yourbones, you're exercising, you're
causing your spinal fluid inyour spine to flow.
All of the things that arecausing your nerves to get
(32:20):
pinched get dealt with whenyou're exercising.
So I started to learn toexercise pretty regularly.
But as I got older, because Iknew of my two brothers'
experience with cancer prostatecancer I started to ask my
doctor at the physicals can hecheck my PSA?
And at first he really wasn'ttoo enthused about it because he
(32:44):
said you're looking healthy,you're feeling healthy, you're
not complaining.
But what he wasn't aware of wasthat prostate cancer occurs
pretty early in Black men ofAfrican descent and it can be
pretty aggressive.
So he finally conceded and westarted checking my PSA and over
the course of just a few yearsmy PSA went from in the safe
(33:09):
range, which was between zeroand four, and then it went from
four to 4.5 and then it went tofive point something.
Then it went to 7.1.
And all of that happened withinthe space of a year.
Thing that it went to 7.1 andall of that happened within the
space of a year.
(33:29):
And he said you need to see aurologist.
Because what I learned was thatthey not only look at your PSA
but they look at how fast it ischanging.
And even though mine was nothigh, some people with prostate
cancer have PSAs in the 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s and higher than that
the rate at which mine wasincreasing was a concern.
(33:50):
So I went to the urologist.
She did a whole bunch of tests.
They did a whole bunch of tests.
Everything came back negative.
Then she said the only othertest left is the biopsy.
And I said let's do the biopsy.
(34:10):
And when they did it, theyfound out that the entire right
side of my prostate was infected.
So they did the 12 tests.
All the ones on the left werenegative and all the ones on the
right had cancer, and myGleason score was 7 and 8.
(34:31):
And so I had 4 plus 3 and 4plus 4.
And because the number in front4 four was higher than the
three, it means that the cancerwas a little bit more aggressive
.
And I was at the eighth number,which is that triggered number,
like you said earlier, that didlook for to say is this
(34:52):
aggressive cancer?
So I started to get the secondopinions.
So I went from the urologistand then they said we want to
check a bone scan to make surethat it's contained in your
prostate and it hasn't migratedto your lymph nodes or your
bones.
Then I saw a radiationoncologist who reviewed
(35:14):
everything and agreed with thedoctor, the urologist, that
surgery was probably the bestoption.
Then I had a third opinion froma doctor at the National
Institutes of Health in Marylandwho reviewed all of my data and
he agreed with the procedure.
So we agreed with the procedureto do the robot-assisted
(35:35):
radical prostatectomy and thattook place on July, the 5th, I
think around there two years ago, so that'd be 2022.
My surgery went very, prettywell From everything that I was
(35:55):
told and how I felt, came homein about a couple of days, had a
bag for a few days, went backand have it removed, went
through all the symptoms ofurinary dysfunction and having
to wear pads.
There's two things thathappened to me that I think are
significant.
(36:15):
At least One of them was when Ifirst came home from the
hospital and I was recoveringfor that month to two months.
The first few months afterwardsI would get really tired in the
afternoons.
I don't know if you guysexperienced that.
I mean literally like 2.30, 3o'clock in the afternoon.
(36:37):
I would just be wiped out.
And the other thing thathappened to me was the mental
and emotional.
You both said that you didn'thave much mental and emotional
issues, but I found the physicalpart of my healing was a lot
easier than the mental andemotional aspects that I was
(36:57):
going through was a lot easierthan the mental, emotional
aspects that I was going through.
And it's hard to explain, justhard to focus, hard to stay on.
Focus on one thing, thinkingabout did I do the right thing?
Did I not do the right thing?
How is this going to affect megoing forward?
So I actually ended up talkingto my doctor, and a friend of my
(37:23):
wife sent us a flyer for asymposium on prostate cancer
that was going to take place inSeattle.
We went, we met some doctors,met some new people there and as
a result of that I was able tojoin a black men's prostate
cancer support group.
That's been pretty helpfuleffective finding out that this
(37:48):
is uncommon for the mental andemotional aspects of dealing
with having had cancer, havingto deal with that.
The question am I going to liveor am I not going to live?
What's going to happenafterwards?
This is actually pretty common,so it helped me to feel that I
(38:08):
was not going crazy thinkingabout that.
As far as my family isconcerned, my wife took it in
stride.
I think she accepted it.
In fact, I told her before thedoctor even told me I have
prostate.
I told her I think thediagnosis is going to be
(38:28):
positive.
So she journeyed with methrough the whole thing.
The only time I saw her reallyhave serious concern was two
days before surgery when we hadthe final consultation with the
surgeon and they went throughall the potential side effects
(38:49):
and I could see a look on herface.
But she journeyed with me.
She's been a good trooper.
My children have been prettygood.
They supported me along thewhole way.
One thing that I would say inending this is that when I was
diagnosed I never felt anyanxiety or I don't know what a
(39:13):
word is but like depression orwhy me kind of stuff.
I went into the surgery.
I went into the treatmentpretty positive that everything
be okay and pretty positive.
God was going to take care ofme.
Our church surrounded me theSunday before the surgery and
(39:34):
prayed for me.
The surgery and prayed for me,had my surgery to go well.
So on the other side, when Ihad these mental and emotional
struggles, I was surprisedbecause I thought that would
have happened on the front side,not the back side.
I'm back in the gym exercisingregularly.
(39:55):
My gym family was verysupportive.
They made sure that I got allof my exercise in everything the
doctor was asking me to do,that I was doing.
I would go to the gym.
I needed to walk on thetreadmill.
They made sure that I wasfollowing the prescription and
getting back to health.
(40:15):
So it's good to have somepeople to encourage me there.
Arthur Leonce (40:19):
Thanks for sharing.
That's very important to knowthat you have been victorious.
The fact that you were at thatstage and be able to come out
victorious, that's very good.
The fact that you aremaintaining your health and
doing the things that are rightand I think that's important
Doing the right thing.
(40:39):
Do what you know is best tokeep you healthy.
Too many times we don't do thething you're supposed to do.
Too many times we take our lifeand we just live it.
But to know that you're aliveand recognize that you have a
responsibility to take care ofthe body that God has blessed us
with.
So I thank you for sharing andcontinue to take care of the
(41:03):
body that God has blessed youwith and realize that each day
is the day that you've got thatresponsibility.
Grantley Martelly (41:11):
The challenge with not going to the doctor
because you're afraid of badnews is that if your body is
sick, it's still going to besick.
Whether you go to the doctorbecause you're afraid of bad
news is that if your body issick, it's still going to be
sick, ready to go to the doctoror not.
Arthur Leonce (41:23):
That's right, that's right.
Grantley Martelly (41:25):
So not going is not going to change the fact
that there's something happeningin you that needs to be
diagnosed and needs to be takencare of.
So some people are like, if Idon't go to the doctor, just
leave well enough alone.
No, it's not leave well enoughalone, because if something is
happening inside of you you needto know or it's going to tell
(41:47):
you.
Eventually, it's going to tellyou when the pain kicks in.
A lot of people ask me aboutdid you have any pain or did you
feel any discomfort?
And I told them, with prostatecancer, if you feel pain and
discomfort, it's already aserious issue and a lot of
(42:08):
things in life like that, likehigh blood pressure or diabetes,
any one of those things.
If you wait till you're passingout and your eyes are cloudy and
all the symptoms of diabetesand you don't start going to the
doctor, it's still progressing.
George Leonce (42:27):
Yeah, there's yeah.
Grantley Martelly (42:30):
So you could as well go and hear the news and
figure out how to deal with it,because you're going to have to
deal with it anyhow, becauseyou're going to have to deal
with it anyhow you talk about.
George Leonce (42:42):
one of the anxieties that you had was
whether you did it.
Did I do the right?
Thing, or I didn't do the rightthing, and I think that, if I
could look at it from myperspective, look at your aspect
of your sexuality, settle thatwith your partner and she's
(43:05):
comfortable with that, you arecomfortable with that After
surgery.
There should be no question thatI do that right, right, and I
think the whole aspect of somepeople and maybe not you, but
maybe you is that we begin todoubt ourselves after we already
made the decision which wecannot change.
(43:27):
But we have already made thedecision, it means that we are
in it.
We don't have to commit toourselves and say we are going
to go with it, and I think thatwould bring some comfort to
individuals, Men, who arecontemplating should I do this
surgery, Should I not do thissurgery?
(43:47):
Should I do the other method?
And you want daily option.
But you have decided to do anoption.
Abrakanath said I'm afraid thatcancer will come back, but he
had decided in his mind that ifcancer comes back, I will live
with it, if it doesn't come back, I will still live.
(44:10):
So after he said whatever theprocedure, you're questioning
yourself.
But when you begin to questionyourself, your healing takes
longer to take place becauseyour mind is not at peace,
resting.
The Bible says to think on thisthing.
That are good.
But if I begin to think on thenegative aspect, then the
(44:32):
healing of my poor state isgoing to take longer because I'm
not allowing my mind to say yes, george Leon still did the
right thing.
Your family are with you,they're standing beside you.
Okay, put anybody else's name,but you did the right thing, go
with it.
And I think that is important,that we realize that we settled
(44:55):
our mind.
I have done the right thing.
The other thing is that Iappreciate the fact we talk
about the habit groupintervention.
This is something that Iactually managed at that time to
talk about.
That now I'm not aware of anymen's group for cancer recovery.
You had to be solo.
(45:18):
I was solo all the time, wentthrough it from day one I was in
New York.
I had my sisters, my nieces.
They were with me.
My wife came up later on but tosay that you can't say, okay,
let us have this group of peoplewho can now consider they were
(45:39):
asking people, encouraging youor bringing you up making you
aware of what it is, and evenafterwards, something that we
laughed at or something.
I didn't have.
But again I say my history ison God.
AI Announcer (45:56):
Yeah.
George Leonce (45:56):
Yeah.
AI Announcer (45:59):
That group is sponsored by Zero Prostate
Cancer and is called the BlackMen's Prostate Cancer Virtual
Support Group and meets everyother Monday evening at 8
o'clock Eastern Time Zone.
To sign up, go to zerocancerorgand look for the Black Men's
Prostate Cancer Initiativesupport groups, or email us at
realhealthblackmen at gmailcomand we will send you the link to
(46:22):
Zero Cancer.
Grantley Martelly (46:27):
Write us at realhealthblackmen at gmailcom.
Realhealthblackmen at gmailcom.
To support this podcast, go tobuymeacoffeecom forward, slash
RealHealthBlackMen,buymeacoffeecom.
(46:50):
Realhealthblackmen.
And to become a corporatesponsor, send us an email.
This is the Real Health Black Men Podcast,
where we empower men to takecontrol of their health.
We provide vital informationand build community support.
Join us as we discusseverything from major health
challenges to mental wellness tophysical fitness.
So if you're ready to level upyour health and your life,
you're in the right place.
(00:31):
Let's get started.
In this episode, I am happy andprivileged to sit down with my
two older brothers and share ourprostate cancer journey with
you.
We live in three differentcountries and we've all three
(00:55):
been challenged with facingprostate cancer, and we want, as
we share today, we hope thatwhat you hear will be an
encouragement to you, regardlessof where you are in your
journey or whatever you may begoing through at this time.
This is a part of our podcastwhere we talk to men who are
(01:15):
experiences or have experienceswith health crises, and this
time we're talking aboutprostate cancer.
And this time we're talkingabout prostate cancer.
And these also happen to be mytwo older brothers, george and
Arthur or Albert.
So today I'm going to talk tothem about their experiences
(01:39):
about prostate cancer and wherethey are right now.
We're going to begin with you,arthur or Albert, tell us a
little bit about yourself andthen give us your experience
with prostate cancer or otherhealth issues that you want to
talk about.
Arthur Leonce (01:58):
Good evening.
I serve as a minister in theChurch of the Nazarene for about
nearly 40 years.
I retired in 2017.
I was first diagnosed withprostate cancer at the age of 57
(02:21):
by my doctor when he told methat my post PSA count was 5.8.
That was in 2010, November,when I went for my regular
checkup.
He then sent me to a specialiston prostate cancer.
(02:44):
The doctor's name was Dr Emtig.
In 2011, I went to Dr Emtig andat that time he took a biopsy
where he examined and recognizedthat there were 12 cells, but
only one was affected Thereby.
(03:06):
He said that we can wait andwatch and see what happens.
We decided to wait.
Dr Empton then called me in 2012and informed me that there's a
program which will come onlinein 2012, in March, if I would be
interested, but the cost wouldhave been there about $54,000,
(03:33):
which I did not have at the time.
And he proceeded and I wentback home and I forgot about it.
But then he called me back formy examination and told me that
he's going to do the operation.
I said I have no money, doctor.
He said don't you worry, I willtake care of it.
(03:54):
So he said that my insurancewill cover a percentage and he
will cover the rest.
And so we proceeded with thearrangement to have the prostate
done, and so we proceeded withthe arrangement to have the
posture done.
I had that done in 2012, March2012, thereabouts, and it was a
(04:20):
procedure that was done at aprivate hospital.
It didn't take that long.
It was a procedure calledBarkie therapy, where some 25
radiation tablets were insertedinto my rectum and burned in.
In counseling me, he did tellme that if I did go ahead with
this procedure, that at a laterdate, if the cancer should
return, there would be no cureor procedure to be able to stop
(04:44):
it.
I told him that's okay, doc, Ihave no problem with that.
Yes, I had my prostate done, theoperation done, in 2012.
From then on, all I had somelight challenges, such as going
to the bathroom to urinate.
Procedure was pretty difficult.
(05:06):
Anytime I go to any place thatis too cold, I find I have to
run to the bathroom veryregularly.
Apart from that, I have not hadany other effect from the
operation.
I've been living a good life,healthy, and my last examination
by my doctor last year, mycount was prostate count was 0.1
(05:31):
.
And so I believe that I amstill, and that would be about
12 years, I think, since I hadthat procedure done.
So I think I am doing quitewell at the moment.
Thank you.
Grantley Martelly (05:46):
So, Arthur, how old are you now?
Arthur Leonce (05:50):
I am 74.
Grantley Martelly (05:52):
74, and you were diagnosed at 57?
, 57.
57.
Okay, I had another questionjust for our viewers and
listeners what country are youin?
I'm living?
Arthur Leonce (06:04):
right now in Barbados.
Grantley Martelly (06:06):
In Barbados.
The procedure was diagnosed inBarbados and it was also treated
in Barbados.
Arthur Leonce (06:14):
Yes, treated in Barbados.
Grantley Martelly (06:16):
Okay, we'll come back.
Let's go over to George andyour story and then we'll come
back and have some discussion.
So again, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
My name is George.
George Leonce (06:37):
Ann Williams.
I am 74 years of age.
I am a Sanctification by birth,Asian by adoption, Trinidadian
by marriage.
Grantley Martelly (06:53):
And you live in Trinidad, right now,
presently, I live in Trinidad.
George Leonce (06:58):
As to my health, I was diagnosed with cancer
about 2010 after consultationwith my doctors, not 2010,.
I started consultation with thedoctor in 2010.
But during that time I may havemissed out a year or two for
(07:21):
the intestine, a year or twobefore they get tested.
And in 2014, when I did returnto him, he explained to me there
seemed to be a smallenlargement and he gave me some
medication to take and also thatof drinking a lot of water.
(07:44):
When I did return to him abouta month later, two months later,
he said definitely, there is aenhancement and he did a biopsy
and it shows that my PSC was8.37 and that it was cancerous
and it was aggressive, cancerousand it was aggressive.
Thereby I started to.
(08:05):
He suggested what I would wantto do.
I said, definitely, we want todo surgery.
He did go into detail,explaining to me the difference
between the two systems, the twomethods that there would be in
order to do a biotic culture.
That I let him know.
There was no anxiety in me andno anxiousness with the surgery,
(08:25):
and then I proceeded to seekmeans by which to address that
problem of removing or havingthe cancer.
It was suggested that I wouldgo to Martinique to do the
surgery and seeking means bywhich to raise the finance that
would be needed because it wouldbe quite expensive.
(08:47):
I came to Trinidad to get asecond opinion as to the cost
and I was told in Trinidaddollars, that I would at least
have to pay $45,000 for thatprocedure.
I returned home to St Luciapraying that God would open a
way for me.
During that time, one of myfellow ministers called me quite
(09:12):
unexpectedly and asked me whatare you doing about your
situation?
How are you addressing it?
I said presently we are tryingto have a fundraiser.
He said I have someone that canhelp you get this surgery done
at the minimal cost.
And he put me in contact with asister from his church who had
(09:32):
just returned from New York andexplained to me that she has
been encouraged by a doctor inone of the Queens Hospital.
If she has anyone or a friendwho is in a situation like mine
so she can refer them to me tothem.
So in October 2016, I did go toNew York to seek medical
(09:56):
assistance and she wanted.
Doctors in New York would tellme, and they did confirm that
there was cancer, but the cancerhad not processed to the bone
state.
After I did my MRI andeverything else.
I had therefore my what do youcall it?
Grantley Martelly (10:18):
my Gleason scores.
George Leonce (10:21):
The Gleason scores was far below what I was
told, and the biopsy shows thatthere were 12 samples that were
taken, four shows of cancerousand three negative, and the
total of the Gleason score isseven and not eight as I was
told when I was in St Lucia, andit's not as aggressive as 8 to
10.
8 to 10 is more aggressive.
(10:43):
So with that, they suggestedthat they would do surgery on
the 10th of July 2017.
Again, they went through theprocess of explaining to me that
the two procedures that wereavailable at that time and still
is by which you can addressthis problem it's like a cancer
(11:04):
surgery.
Grantley Martelly (11:09):
They see radiation.
George Leonce (11:12):
I went for surgery with the knowledge of
all the side effects.
I had my surgery on the 10th ofJuly 2017.
I overnight in the hospitalNext morning I was at home Next
day at least.
I overnight in the hospitalNext morning I was at home.
Next day at least I went home.
Difficulties of recovery Ithink the most difficult part of
(11:32):
recovering after surgery isyour urination.
After that, everything hasbecome fine.
There are the after surgery.
You have problems.
You have to wear your pads fora couple of days so that you're
not embarrassed yourself, andthat I did for a couple of
(11:54):
months.
But as 2017, up to this moment,I have had no side effects from
the surgery.
My score last time I checked myPSA it was about 0.4 there.
I haven't done any nausea so Icannot give an update 0.4 or
(12:15):
0.04?
Arthur Leonce (12:17):
0.04, sorry.
George Leonce (12:20):
I can say the procedure was very simple.
There was nothing, nocomplication.
I have had no anxieties beforeor since my surgery.
Grantley Martelly (12:30):
Do you remember what your PSA was
before the surgery?
George Leonce (12:34):
8.37.
Grantley Martelly (12:36):
Oh, it was 8.37.
Prior to surgery yes.
And now it's at 0.04.
Yeah, what major adjustmentsdid you have to make after
prostate surgery, prostatecancer, or have you made any
major life adjustments?
Arthur Leonce (12:56):
For me.
I can't remember how to makeany major adjustment apart from
the fact that I'm in thebathroom very regularly, regular
, apart from like I adjust myoxygen, make sure that I am when
I go to my bathroom, make surethat I empty my bladder as much
as I can, but apart from that Ican't remember having to make
(13:20):
any major adjustments in my life.
I eat what I've got.
I work, I work hard, still work, do my work as usual, but not
after effect.
I continue my life as usual.
No, after effect.
I continue my life as usual.
Grantley Martelly (13:31):
What about you, George?
George Leonce (13:33):
I was several of the same things After my surgery
.
I think the most challengingaspect was the facul, the
urinary agent.
As I said, that was a majorfactor.
After about two to three monthsof having to even there was no
(13:54):
concern or judges wearingpampers.
I was quite comfortable with itand I think being comfortable
in making those changes will notaffect you as much as if you
are hesitant and seeing it as anegative as far as you being a
man, having to wear such a pieceof underwear.
I wear it quite comfortably andthat was the only adjustment
(14:17):
that had to be made and I waswilling to accept it as part of
the process, part of recoveryand part of what you would have
to go through.
Besides that, I haven't had tomake.
I haven't had to make any majoradjustments in my lifestyle.
(14:37):
I continue to eat as I used to.
I am not on any special diet.
I still eat my meat, I stilldrink my.
I would say I stopped usingsugar a long time before that.
I don't use sugar Milk.
I don't use.
Lately I started eating somecontracted milk, but I stopped
(15:00):
that altogether even before.
So, as far as JRR Cardozo isconcerned, I didn't use any Even
before and even when I wasdiagnosed with the cancer.
I'm reading on the informationbecause I had a book that was
explaining those things to me.
Those are things that I shouldavoid.
So dairy products I avoided,but I did avoid them as much as
(15:24):
possible, except lately I havegone back eating cheese.
This is the main thing you caneat at home.
If you have egg, it's usuallygreat.
Grantley Martelly (15:34):
So let me ask you guys, I mean, what do you
do for exercise?
George Leonce (15:40):
You have to say, for exercise I work from 6
o'clock I do landscaping andtherefore I have from 6 in the
morning to 10 or 10.30, I am ina yard, cutting grass, raking
grass and bending down.
(16:02):
That's just the exercise.
Go back home after that, like 1o'clock 12 o'clock, I take a
two-hour's rest and that goes atleast four days a week.
Arthur Leonce (16:20):
Four days a week.
What about you, arthur?
Don't work on rents.
Dave, before I started doinglandscaping, I used to do a lot
of walking.
I live in a place called Haleby, so every morning I go and walk
in the morning six o'clock,about one hour the hills, and
then when I moved to Bel Air Iused to go down to Gown Beach.
I used to walk from the end ofHoliday Inn right down to the
(16:43):
end of the helicopter, if youknow where it is helicopter base
.
AI Announcer (16:46):
Probably about two miles.
Arthur Leonce (16:49):
I used to walk that three times length of that
three times.
Not every day, but I used to goSaturday morning and maybe some
afternoons.
I used to do that regular andthen I started working doing
landscaping and then six o'clockin the morning until 12 o'clock
(17:10):
.
Then I go home, rest for aboutan hour or so.
Sleep Still does that.
I'm still doing that.
Grantley Martelly (17:19):
That's your exercise.
The landscaping is now yourexercise.
Arthur Leonce (17:24):
That's my exercise right now, hoping to go
back to work at the beach nextyear or so, if God give me life.
Grantley Martelly (17:30):
Yeah, the original exercise, right, hard
work.
Yeah, I was saying so.
Let me ask you, gentlemen too,about two questions.
And how did this affect yourfamilies?
How did you tell your familyabout what was going on and what
was their reactions, and howdid you make that journey
together with your families?
How did you tell your familyabout what was going on and what
was their reactions, and howdid you make that journey
(17:52):
together with your families?
Arthur Leonce (17:54):
My family.
We were able to because when Iwas diagnosed, when we were
going to the doctor, they callin myself and my wife together.
We sat down and we talked aboutit.
She was told by the doctor whatwas going to happen when he was
involved.
I was quite comfortable, mychildren were quite comfortable
(18:16):
and understood what was goingthrough.
So there was no anxiety amongmy children or my wife at the
time.
We were able to handle it verywell at the time.
It did not affect ouractivities or what we had to do.
So we were quite comfortablegoing to church, going to
whatever we had to do, asregular, as normal, as we were
(18:37):
accustomed to doing.
So there was no hindrance orany cutback in anything.
We kept our lives as usual, nohindrance.
Grantley Martelly (18:47):
George, what about you?
George Leonce (18:50):
Let me say that from a Christian perspective, I
really face life, really see ourrelationship with God.
People know a lot of thingsdifferently and when I told my
wife about in fact she wasn'teven in St Lucia at the time
(19:11):
that I had been diagnosed withcancer, I didn't see her first
expression but there was nosense of anxiety with her.
When I told the children and,by the way again, all the
children were out of the houseat the time I was alone at home
with Vincent Lucia, realizing,if I did not say so at the time,
(19:35):
I served as districtsuperintendent of the Redwood
Island District for the Churchof the Nazarene and so my
children were all adult.
My wife had gone to Trinidadfor some medication Check up.
In giving them the news fromwhat I would say they took it
(19:55):
quite okay.
There was no sense of beinganxious, daddy, what are you
going to do?
I believe, from the fact of aChristian perspective, I believe
they took it quite comfortably,before any sense of being
anxious about anything, the merefact of telling them about the
surgery.
(20:16):
Again, there was a sense ofencouragement and a sense of
relaxation.
I believe I was quite relaxedand therefore, since I was
relaxed, they were relaxed also.
I think the very rigid news ofbeing in that condition can
(20:40):
affect not us only, but also thepeople around us.
Grantley Martelly (20:46):
On that note, let's talk about the mental and
emotional aspects of it.
How have you dealt with thisprocess, this news, from the
very beginning until now, themental, emotional, any
psychological challenges inhearing the word cancer?
Arthur Leonce (21:08):
As I told my doctor when he described to me
the after effect of my procedure.
I told him, doc, I believe thatWhether if it comes it comes,
I'm going to live my life as I'msupposed to live.
I'm not going to allow it tostop me from living.
(21:29):
Right now is where I am rightnow.
So I told him we'll go througha procedure and if it does come
back, we're going to deal withit when it comes back.
But presently I'm not going toallow it to affect how I feel,
and that's how I talked to thedoctor and that's how I still
feel.
I still feel the fact that thisillness come back on me.
(21:49):
I'm not going to let it affectme how I'm supposed to live.
I'm going to live until it ends.
So that's it.
As I was telling the lady today,I gave her a ride as I was
driving with her, I should evengo there.
I tried to express and tell herit is the day that has made her
rejoice and be glad in it.
Today we live for others, butI'm looking for a better place
(22:15):
to live for myself.
Presently you are alive, giveGod's life, but you are living
for others, but I'm looking forsomewhere better where I will
live for Christ.
So, yes, many people areworried about death and I remind
people, thanking God, I'm alive.
Yeah, you thank God, you'realive, but why are you alive?
You're alive for other people.
People enjoy you, but whatabout tomorrow?
(22:38):
Are you living for tomorrow?
And that's the way I live.
I'm not allowed to affect myway of living.
George Leonce (22:45):
I would say that mentally Isaiah 26, verse 5,.
It says the Lord will keep himin perfect peace.
Whose mind is still on him, andI think that is important.
The Lord has kept my mindperfectly.
I have this piece of thing Inthe midst of the news.
(23:08):
At the moment of the news, thedoctor said how are you feeling
about it?
I said okay.
You cannot change it, so don'tbe anxious about it.
I go each day.
Each day the Lord has broughtme the knowledge of the cancer.
People would see me on thestreet and they would say Pastor
(23:31):
Leon, I hear that you're sick,how are you going?
They give me the impressionthat they got an impression that
I was sick in bed and died.
So I used to say to them I amnot sick, I only have a couple
of cells in my body that ismisbehaving and God will handle
that.
So that's how I have taken itand that's how God has helped me
(23:56):
and my family go through thisprocess.
I think it's all a matter ofyour mindset, right, how you
view your situation at that timeand how you handle it.
If you handle it alone, byyourself, then it could affect
you, but if you know that youhave a God who assists, he will
(24:17):
keep you in perfect peace.
Not to say that there isn'tsome concern I don't want to
give the impression that thereis never concern.
In the back of your mind, youmight be wondering some things,
but you don't allow them topossess you or take control of
you.
Going into a seven-hour surgery, you may find that you don't
(24:40):
know if you're going to reign.
Even when they did the biopsy,I mean, they say I take a look.
The doctors ask me when I wentafter the biopsy get the samples
, do you want anesthesia?
I said no.
I consciously listened to theirconversation as they were doing
that minor surgery on me.
Grantley Martelly (24:57):
You mean biopsy, biopsy, the biopsy.
Yeah, they usually use thelocal anesthetic.
George Leonce (25:04):
I have done three .
My first two surgeries, herniasurgeries.
They were all local.
I was conscious of bothsurgeries.
Of hernia surgery For theseven-hour surgery.
You could say, but you were inthe handsome court.
You could say, but you're inthe hands of God.
So mentally and I'm still soundI have not become over-anxious
(25:29):
over any situation in my life.
I think I'll be like thisotherwise.
Grantley Martelly (25:36):
One more question here for you is both of
you said you started out yourconversation with having your
checkups regularly.
Right, having your checkupsregularly.
You didn't feel sick, youweren't in pain, you weren't
bent over and somebody takingyou to the doctor.
(25:59):
You were going through yourannual physical checkups.
How important would you say itis for men, especially black men
, to be cognizant of attendingand getting those regular
checkups?
George Leonce (26:17):
I would say it's very important.
I did my checkup.
I started doing my checkup in2005 after I did my first
surgery hernia surgery.
After I went to the doctor formy usual after-surgery
examination, I said to thedoctor I need you to check my
(26:41):
prostate and from that time to2005, I was doing a self-help
every year.
I was supported Every year.
As I said, between 2009, 2010,2011,.
I missed out maybe two yearsand then when I did go back, he
(27:04):
said there's a swelling.
I became negligent, I becamecareless for the two years for
low-brow enteritis and whatbrought me to that place of
check-up is that I attended.
It just happened that they werehaving a medical show on the
(27:26):
boulevard in Kastri and thatsame doctor, dr Daniel.
He was the speaker and he saidthe importance of men over 50
years should start taking ontheir checkup.
And from that moment I heardthat speech, I went to him as my
surgeon and also my oncologist.
(27:49):
It's very important, go ahead.
Arthur Leonce (27:52):
I went to my doctor from, I believe, at the
age of 50.
Every year and I've beenjoining for that every year my
birthday full name from November.
I make an appointment to see mydoctor in November every year,
(28:12):
so from 50, I think it's veryimportant that we have our
physical checkup to know how weare doing.
As I said, people the doctorcannot make me well, I just want
to know what is happening in mybody.
In fact, I believe at 40, youshould start checking your
health and see where you are.
Especially today, a lot ofyoung men died suddenly from all
(28:34):
kinds of illness.
I think even now it is moreimportant even instead of 40,
that young men begin to checktheir health and see where they
are, because it's very important.
Some people are afraid, butthere's nothing.
Who are you afraid of?
You're going to die anyway.
Find out why you're dying.
How are you going to die?
What are going to kill you?
Find out we can live your lifefully and for full of purpose.
Grantley Martelly (28:57):
Okay, that's very good advice.
Thank you for helping reinforcethat and the consistency of
getting our checkups, knowingthe procedures, talking to your
doctor.
Like you said, it's not totheir health to get to know
(29:22):
what's going on in them.
Talk to their doctors, gettheir checkups.
Many times you go to the doctorfor your checkup and everything
is fine.
It's not like every yearthey're going to find something.
But to be consistent and toknow what's going on is quite
important.
My cancer journey began when Iwas 59 years old, but prior to
(29:46):
that I had been attending thedoctor regularly for checkups
and I have been doing checkupsever since I was, for probably
nearly 30 years.
My checkups Part of it was notbecause I am that conscientious.
Part of it was at that time Ihad jobs that required me to
(30:06):
have a medical check every year.
I was in the environmentalfield.
I also possessed a commercialdriver's license and between the
two of those, either thecommercial driver's license
requirement or the hazmatrequirements required that you
have a physical.
(30:27):
So because I was, in a careerthat required that then, in
order to keep my job, I had togo get those.
And the other thing aboutthat's important is that you
guys talked about how much itcosts sometimes to go to the
doctor, and even here in theUnited States I had the
privilege of having a job thatpaid for my annual physicals.
(30:48):
So I was doing fine, prettyhealthy, and the only thing that
was really started to bother mein my fifties was something
called spinal stenosis, which isbasically calcification of some
of your bones, your spine, andpinches your nerves.
So a lot of physical therapy, alot of exercise and stuff to
(31:12):
release those pinches.
So that started to happen to mein my 50s, which resulted in
having to have two backsurgeries to try to relieve the
pressure.
But in that process of learningabout spinal stenosis I also
came back to realizing exercisewas really important, because a
(31:37):
lot of the things that I wasfeeling was because I was not
exercising as much.
I had a very sedentary job.
I had gone out to theenvironmental field, now I was
in transportation and had officework, and once I started to
exercise I started to feelbetter.
All of a sudden, a lot of achesand pains that was happening
(31:59):
with the spinal stenosis wentaway.
All of a sudden a lot of achesand pains that was happening
with the spinal stenosis wentaway.
And the doctor said, yeah, thatdoes happen when you exercise.
Because you're moving yourbones, you're exercising, you're
causing your spinal fluid inyour spine to flow.
All of the things that arecausing your nerves to get
(32:20):
pinched get dealt with whenyou're exercising.
So I started to learn toexercise pretty regularly.
But as I got older, because Iknew of my two brothers'
experience with cancer prostatecancer I started to ask my
doctor at the physicals can hecheck my PSA?
And at first he really wasn'ttoo enthused about it because he
(32:44):
said you're looking healthy,you're feeling healthy, you're
not complaining.
But what he wasn't aware of wasthat prostate cancer occurs
pretty early in Black men ofAfrican descent and it can be
pretty aggressive.
So he finally conceded and westarted checking my PSA and over
the course of just a few yearsmy PSA went from in the safe
(33:09):
range, which was between zeroand four, and then it went from
four to 4.5 and then it went tofive point something.
Then it went to 7.1.
And all of that happened withinthe space of a year.
Thing that it went to 7.1 andall of that happened within the
space of a year.
(33:29):
And he said you need to see aurologist.
Because what I learned was thatthey not only look at your PSA
but they look at how fast it ischanging.
And even though mine was nothigh, some people with prostate
cancer have PSAs in the 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s and higher than that
the rate at which mine wasincreasing was a concern.
(33:50):
So I went to the urologist.
She did a whole bunch of tests.
They did a whole bunch of tests.
Everything came back negative.
Then she said the only othertest left is the biopsy.
And I said let's do the biopsy.
(34:10):
And when they did it, theyfound out that the entire right
side of my prostate was infected.
So they did the 12 tests.
All the ones on the left werenegative and all the ones on the
right had cancer, and myGleason score was 7 and 8.
(34:31):
And so I had 4 plus 3 and 4plus 4.
And because the number in front4 four was higher than the
three, it means that the cancerwas a little bit more aggressive
.
And I was at the eighth number,which is that triggered number,
like you said earlier, that didlook for to say is this
(34:52):
aggressive cancer?
So I started to get the secondopinions.
So I went from the urologistand then they said we want to
check a bone scan to make surethat it's contained in your
prostate and it hasn't migratedto your lymph nodes or your
bones.
Then I saw a radiationoncologist who reviewed
(35:14):
everything and agreed with thedoctor, the urologist, that
surgery was probably the bestoption.
Then I had a third opinion froma doctor at the National
Institutes of Health in Marylandwho reviewed all of my data and
he agreed with the procedure.
So we agreed with the procedureto do the robot-assisted
(35:35):
radical prostatectomy and thattook place on July, the 5th, I
think around there two years ago, so that'd be 2022.
My surgery went very, prettywell From everything that I was
(35:55):
told and how I felt, came homein about a couple of days, had a
bag for a few days, went backand have it removed, went
through all the symptoms ofurinary dysfunction and having
to wear pads.
There's two things thathappened to me that I think are
significant.
(36:15):
At least One of them was when Ifirst came home from the
hospital and I was recoveringfor that month to two months.
The first few months afterwardsI would get really tired in the
afternoons.
I don't know if you guysexperienced that.
I mean literally like 2.30, 3o'clock in the afternoon.
(36:37):
I would just be wiped out.
And the other thing thathappened to me was the mental
and emotional.
You both said that you didn'thave much mental and emotional
issues, but I found the physicalpart of my healing was a lot
easier than the mental andemotional aspects that I was
(36:57):
going through was a lot easierthan the mental, emotional
aspects that I was going through.
And it's hard to explain, justhard to focus, hard to stay on.
Focus on one thing, thinkingabout did I do the right thing?
Did I not do the right thing?
How is this going to affect megoing forward?
So I actually ended up talkingto my doctor, and a friend of my
(37:23):
wife sent us a flyer for asymposium on prostate cancer
that was going to take place inSeattle.
We went, we met some doctors,met some new people there and as
a result of that I was able tojoin a black men's prostate
cancer support group.
That's been pretty helpfuleffective finding out that this
(37:48):
is uncommon for the mental andemotional aspects of dealing
with having had cancer, havingto deal with that.
The question am I going to liveor am I not going to live?
What's going to happenafterwards?
This is actually pretty common,so it helped me to feel that I
(38:08):
was not going crazy thinkingabout that.
As far as my family isconcerned, my wife took it in
stride.
I think she accepted it.
In fact, I told her before thedoctor even told me I have
prostate.
I told her I think thediagnosis is going to be
(38:28):
positive.
So she journeyed with methrough the whole thing.
The only time I saw her reallyhave serious concern was two
days before surgery when we hadthe final consultation with the
surgeon and they went throughall the potential side effects
(38:49):
and I could see a look on herface.
But she journeyed with me.
She's been a good trooper.
My children have been prettygood.
They supported me along thewhole way.
One thing that I would say inending this is that when I was
diagnosed I never felt anyanxiety or I don't know what a
(39:13):
word is but like depression orwhy me kind of stuff.
I went into the surgery.
I went into the treatmentpretty positive that everything
be okay and pretty positive.
God was going to take care ofme.
Our church surrounded me theSunday before the surgery and
(39:34):
prayed for me.
The surgery and prayed for me,had my surgery to go well.
So on the other side, when Ihad these mental and emotional
struggles, I was surprisedbecause I thought that would
have happened on the front side,not the back side.
I'm back in the gym exercisingregularly.
(39:55):
My gym family was verysupportive.
They made sure that I got allof my exercise in everything the
doctor was asking me to do,that I was doing.
I would go to the gym.
I needed to walk on thetreadmill.
They made sure that I wasfollowing the prescription and
getting back to health.
(40:15):
So it's good to have somepeople to encourage me there.
Arthur Leonce (40:19):
Thanks for sharing.
That's very important to knowthat you have been victorious.
The fact that you were at thatstage and be able to come out
victorious, that's very good.
The fact that you aremaintaining your health and
doing the things that are rightand I think that's important
Doing the right thing.
(40:39):
Do what you know is best tokeep you healthy.
Too many times we don't do thething you're supposed to do.
Too many times we take our lifeand we just live it.
But to know that you're aliveand recognize that you have a
responsibility to take care ofthe body that God has blessed us
with.
So I thank you for sharing andcontinue to take care of the
(41:03):
body that God has blessed youwith and realize that each day
is the day that you've got thatresponsibility.
Grantley Martelly (41:11):
The challenge with not going to the doctor
because you're afraid of badnews is that if your body is
sick, it's still going to besick.
Whether you go to the doctorbecause you're afraid of bad
news is that if your body issick, it's still going to be
sick, ready to go to the doctoror not.
Arthur Leonce (41:23):
That's right, that's right.
Grantley Martelly (41:25):
So not going is not going to change the fact
that there's something happeningin you that needs to be
diagnosed and needs to be takencare of.
So some people are like, if Idon't go to the doctor, just
leave well enough alone.
No, it's not leave well enoughalone, because if something is
happening inside of you you needto know or it's going to tell
(41:47):
you.
Eventually, it's going to tellyou when the pain kicks in.
A lot of people ask me aboutdid you have any pain or did you
feel any discomfort?
And I told them, with prostatecancer, if you feel pain and
discomfort, it's already aserious issue and a lot of
(42:08):
things in life like that, likehigh blood pressure or diabetes,
any one of those things.
If you wait till you're passingout and your eyes are cloudy and
all the symptoms of diabetesand you don't start going to the
doctor, it's still progressing.
George Leonce (42:27):
Yeah, there's yeah.
Grantley Martelly (42:30):
So you could as well go and hear the news and
figure out how to deal with it,because you're going to have to
deal with it anyhow, becauseyou're going to have to deal
with it anyhow you talk about.
George Leonce (42:42):
one of the anxieties that you had was
whether you did it.
Did I do the right?
Thing, or I didn't do the rightthing, and I think that, if I
could look at it from myperspective, look at your aspect
of your sexuality, settle thatwith your partner and she's
(43:05):
comfortable with that, you arecomfortable with that After
surgery.
There should be no question thatI do that right, right, and I
think the whole aspect of somepeople and maybe not you, but
maybe you is that we begin todoubt ourselves after we already
made the decision which wecannot change.
(43:27):
But we have already made thedecision, it means that we are
in it.
We don't have to commit toourselves and say we are going
to go with it, and I think thatwould bring some comfort to
individuals, Men, who arecontemplating should I do this
surgery, Should I not do thissurgery?
(43:47):
Should I do the other method?
And you want daily option.
But you have decided to do anoption.
Abrakanath said I'm afraid thatcancer will come back, but he
had decided in his mind that ifcancer comes back, I will live
with it, if it doesn't come back, I will still live.
(44:10):
So after he said whatever theprocedure, you're questioning
yourself.
But when you begin to questionyourself, your healing takes
longer to take place becauseyour mind is not at peace,
resting.
The Bible says to think on thisthing.
That are good.
But if I begin to think on thenegative aspect, then the
(44:32):
healing of my poor state isgoing to take longer because I'm
not allowing my mind to say yes, george Leon still did the
right thing.
Your family are with you,they're standing beside you.
Okay, put anybody else's name,but you did the right thing, go
with it.
And I think that is important,that we realize that we settled
(44:55):
our mind.
I have done the right thing.
The other thing is that Iappreciate the fact we talk
about the habit groupintervention.
This is something that Iactually managed at that time to
talk about.
That now I'm not aware of anymen's group for cancer recovery.
You had to be solo.
(45:18):
I was solo all the time, wentthrough it from day one I was in
New York.
I had my sisters, my nieces.
They were with me.
My wife came up later on but tosay that you can't say, okay,
let us have this group of peoplewho can now consider they were
(45:39):
asking people, encouraging youor bringing you up making you
aware of what it is, and evenafterwards, something that we
laughed at or something.
I didn't have.
But again I say my history ison God.
AI Announcer (45:56):
Yeah.
George Leonce (45:56):
Yeah.
AI Announcer (45:59):
That group is sponsored by Zero Prostate
Cancer and is called the BlackMen's Prostate Cancer Virtual
Support Group and meets everyother Monday evening at 8
o'clock Eastern Time Zone.
To sign up, go to zerocancerorgand look for the Black Men's
Prostate Cancer Initiativesupport groups, or email us at
realhealthblackmen at gmailcomand we will send you the link to
(46:22):
Zero Cancer.
Grantley Martelly (46:27):
Write us at realhealthblackmen at gmailcom.
Realhealthblackmen at gmailcom.
To support this podcast, go tobuymeacoffeecom forward, slash
RealHealthBlackMen,buymeacoffeecom.
(46:50):
Realhealthblackmen.
And to become a corporatesponsor, send us an email.
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