Dr. Jeff Tosoian reveals a groundbreaking advancement in prostate cancer detection that could save thousands of lives, especially among Black men who face double the risk of both diagnosis and death from this disease. The newly available My Prostate Score 2.0 (MPS2.0) test represents years of meticulous research aimed at solving one of medicine's most persistent challenges: accurately identifying dangerous prostate cancers while reducing unnecessary procedures.
Growing up with parents diagnosed with multiple cancers, including his father's unusually early prostate cancer diagnosis in his 40s, Dr. Teshoian's personal mission led him from laboratory research to developing practical solutions for patients. He explains how traditional PSA testing, while valuable, often results in unnecessary biopsies because it's prostate-specific but not cancer-specific. In fact, approximately 75% of prostate biopsies performed after elevated PSA readings alone come back negative.
The real innovation of the MPS2 test lies in its ability to detect 18 genetic markers specifically associated with aggressive prostate cancers - the kind that actually requires treatment. Through urine testing that can be completed at home, this breakthrough can prevent between one-third and one-half of unnecessary biopsies while still identifying 95% of dangerous cancers.
This episode offers hope through scientific advancement for listeners concerned about prostate health, particularly Black men at higher risk. The MPS2 test requires a doctor's prescription but provides a clear, actionable risk assessment without invasive procedures. Ask your doctor about MPS2 today—it might be the most important health decision you make this year.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grantley Martelly (00:11):
This is the Real Health Black Men podcast,
where we empower men to takecontrol of their health.
We provide vital informationand build community support.
Join us as we discusseverything from major health
challenges to mental wellness tophysical fitness.
So if you're ready to level upyour health and your life,
you're in the right place.
(00:31):
Let's get started.
So today, my guest on realhealth black Men is Dr Jeff
Tesoyan.
We met recently at a conferenceand he's becoming a quick
(00:53):
friend.
I was very impressed by him andthe work that he's doing, so he
agreed to come on our podcastand I'm sure that you, our
listeners, will enjoy thispresentation, that you, our
listeners, will enjoy thispresentation, as we talk about a
new product that's coming tothe market, but also some his
research and some work that he'sdoing in urologic cancer
research.
(01:13):
So I'm excited to have DrTosoian on our program today.
Welcome, dr Tosoian.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (01:20):
Thank you.
Thanks so much, Grandley.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Grantley Martelly (01:24):
Thank you.
So let's begin by introducingyourself.
Tell us a little bit about youand your specialty, and how you
got to where you are today.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (01:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we can start from thebeginning.
I grew up outside of Detroit,of Detroit.
My mom was a school teacher,dad was a carpet cleaner, and so
really no one in my family wasin the medical field.
But strangely, from a young ageI was very interested in
(01:55):
medicine, and particularly incancer.
And so, as it turned out, overmy childhood really from the
ages of 10 to 16, my two parentswere diagnosed with cancer
three times, including prostatecancer in my dad in his 40s,
(02:17):
which is quite young, and so Ithink, through that, the
interest in cancer really becamemore of a mission, and by the
time I went to college I waspretty dead set on having some
type of impact against cancer.
So I went to college at theUniversity of Michigan, majored
(02:39):
in cellular and molecularbiology and joined a lab
studying the genetics ofprostate cancer, and that was my
first introduction to research.
And I'll be honest, that timespent in the lab I, yes,
certainly learned a lot, but italso, it felt a long way from
(03:01):
helping patients, way fromhelping patients, and that was
really what I was most eager todo.
And so I did have some secondthoughts about whether I thought
research would be a part of mycareer, I moved to Baltimore for
medical school, johns Hopkins,and toward the end of my first
(03:23):
year I met a urologist focusedin prostate cancer named Val
Carter, and I remember learningabout the research that he was
doing and saying to himdepending on what we find, this
could really help patientstomorrow.
To which he smiled and nodded,and so you know that had me
(03:47):
really excited about researchagain, seeing that it could have
that impact in the short term.
And Bell was certainly a leaderin the field.
He was one of the first torecognize that some prostate
cancers don't need to be treated, of the first to recognize that
(04:07):
some prostate cancers don'tneed to be treated but could
instead be monitored on activesurveillance.
And he had set up that firstprogram in the United States in
which low-risk prostate cancerswere closely monitored rather
than treated.
And over many years, and afterenrolling thousands of patients,
we published a series of papersshowing that it was, in fact,
(04:31):
safe to monitor certain patientswith low-risk prostate cancer.
And so now, in 2025 and for thelast several years, active
surveillance is considered thestandard of care for low-risk
prostate cancer.
The other thing that Dr Carterdid was, of course, with the
(04:51):
patient's permission, collectedblood and urine in our patients
so we could find better ways todetect prostate cancer at an
early curable stage.
And that was something thatinterested me a great deal,
because we know that the bestway to reduce the harm caused by
prostate cancer is to detect itearly, before it has spread, at
(05:16):
a stage where it's stillcurable.
And so I learned a great dealfrom him and other mentors at
Hopkins, and all in all, I spent11 years in Baltimore between
medical school and urologyresidency and a master's degree
in public health.
After residency, I went back toAnn Arbor, michigan, for a
(05:40):
fellowship in urologic cancersand translational cancer
research, and I think I'll pointout that when we say
translational research, I thinkthat's a term that a lot of us
aren't real sure what that meansall the time, and that's really
referring to translating thework that's done in the
(06:04):
laboratory into things that canbe used clinically to actually
help our patients, and so that'swhat's referred to by
translational research, and,unlike my initial time in Ann
Arbor as an undergrad, I now hada better understanding of what
(06:24):
was needed in research and how Icould use my training to that
point as both a researcher and aclinician and surgeon to help
fulfill that role, and so Istarted working with really one
of the probably the world's mostaccomplished lab scientists
(06:47):
there at the University ofMichigan, arul Chanayan, and he
was both a mentor and a partnerin the work that we'll talk
about today, which we startedback in 2019.
And just to fast forward totoday, and just to fast forward
(07:10):
to today, I did, after manyyears, finally finish my
training in 2021.
And I joined the faculty hereat Vanderbilt as the director of
translational cancer researchhere in our department of
urology.
I'm also a clinician andsurgeon, so I see patients here
at Vanderbilt and also at theNashville VA, and much of my
practice is focused in the earlydetection and management of
(07:32):
prostate cancer.
Grantley Martelly (07:34):
I have a question about urologic cancers.
Can you give us an idea of whatare some of the things?
When you refer to urologiccancers, what do you?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (07:42):
mean Absolutely, absolutely.
My training is as a urologiconcologist, which means a cancer
doctor within urology, and sothat's referring to prostate
cancer, bladder cancer, kidneycancer and testicular cancer.
Those are the main urologiccancers on which our work is
(08:09):
focused.
Grantley Martelly (08:10):
This episode we're talking about mainly
prostate cancer, but it's goodto know that there are those
other cancers that also affectmen, and I assume that some of
those cancers are also presentin women as well.
Is that true?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (08:25):
Kidney cancer and bladder cancer are a concern
in women as well, thoughprostate and testicular are just
for us men.
Grantley Martelly (08:36):
Just for us men.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe disparities in cancer,
because one of the ways that wemet was actually at a conference
and at an organization thatfocuses on the disparities of
prostate cancer, specifically inBlack people and people of
color, people of African descent.
So can you shed some light onthat?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (08:59):
Yes, we know.
In the US, approximately one insix men will be diagnosed with
prostate cancer throughout theirlives, and we know that age is
the greatest risk factor, right?
Folks have probably heard thecommon sayings if you live long
(09:20):
enough, almost all men willdevelop prostate cancer at some
point and so those risks,however, are higher in black men
.
Both the risk of being diagnosedwith prostate cancer is about
two times higher in black menand the risk of dying from
(09:44):
prostate cancer is alsoapproximately two times higher
in black men, and so this is, ofcourse, a point of great
interest and a point of study inthe field.
There have been some studies andthis is an important point to
make that there have been somestudies that have shown, in
(10:09):
healthcare systems where thereis equal access to care so the
VA, for example, where all vetsreceive the same access to care,
much of the disparity inmortality and death from
prostate cancer is eliminatedhas been shown to be
(10:32):
non-existent in a number ofstudies where care received is
equivalent.
And so, absolutely first andforemost, this gets into the
social determinants of healthand how important it is to
ensure that all patients haveaccess to good quality
(10:56):
healthcare.
That's 1A, first and foremost.
That being said, differences inaccess to care would not
explain why black men are morelikely to be diagnosed with
prostate cancer, and,furthermore, we know that when
(11:18):
we look at the actual tumorsprostate cancer tumors in white
men and black- men we do seedifferences in those tumors in
terms of their genetic makeup.
Absolutely reducing disparitiesand achieving equity in
(11:41):
healthcare needs to be at thetop of everybody's list.
That being said, there stillare some differences between the
races, particularly in terms ofprostate cancer.
That leads to some additionalconsiderations as we look to
(12:04):
reduce the harms of prostatecancer on our population and on
all of us and our families.
Grantley Martelly (12:14):
So you said the tumors look a little bit
different.
Could you give us a little bitmore information on that from a
layman's point of view?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (12:29):
that from a layman's point of view, yes, and
that gets a little bit trickyand we'll find our way somewhat
into the weeds.
But we can think of it as in.
There are different pathways atthe level of the cell that can
lead a cell to become cancerousthrough changes to its DNA or
mutations, and we found that thechanges that lead to cancer in
(12:55):
white men and black men, well,largely there are instances in
both races of given change,mutation A, leading to prostate
cancer.
The proportion of white menversus black men that have
(13:16):
certain types of changes thatlead to cancer differ between
the races, between the races,and so if black men, for example
, have mutation A, that leads toprostate cancer in 25% of the
prostate cancers we find inblack men there's one known
(13:40):
mutation that accounts for 50%.
That same mutation, we'll callmutation A, accounts for 50% of
the cancers in white men, and sothere's ultimately it's the
same pathways, but the frequencywith which those pathways are
(14:01):
seen does differ between theraces.
Grantley Martelly (14:07):
Now, does that mean that genetics of the
black population and the whitepopulation are different?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (14:15):
It's an excellent question.
It's an excellent question.
The answer is and this is whereit's very important to
distinguish between our, youknow, the genetics that drive
who.
We are right.
Our DNA, which we now know, isnot very different between black
(14:37):
men and white men, and, and sothat's called our, our germline
DNA, that's the DNA that we havein, called our germline DNA.
That's the DNA that we have inevery one of our cells.
By contrast, we're talkingabout the tumor itself, or the
(14:58):
cancer itself.
The term we often use for thatis somatic S-O-M-A-T-I-C.
The somatic genetics of thetumor itself is what differs by
race.
Grantley Martelly (15:11):
Thank you for that clarification, thank you
for that explanation, and youmentioned access as one of the
challenges, which we all know isimportant.
There let's talk about earlyscreening.
Is early screening important inhelping reduce the death rate?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (15:30):
Yes, absolutely.
That being said, this has been apoint of a little bit of
controversy over the last two orso decades when we talk about
screening for prostate cancer,screening for early diagnosis
that is initiated through ablood test called PSA.
(15:54):
That stands forprostate-specific antigen, and
this is a protein that's made inthe prostate and is detected
with a simple blood test.
Like most tests, it has itspluses and minuses.
The negatives of PSA is that,as the name implies, it is
(16:19):
prostate-specific, so thedistinguishing factor there is
that it is not prostatecancer-specific is a blood test
(16:41):
where the levels can be elevatedfor reasons other than prostate
cancer, and so when we talkabout PSA as a screening test
for prostate cancer, it'ssensitive for prostate cancer,
which means that the majority ofmen with prostate cancer do
have an elevated PSA level, butit is not specific for prostate
(17:03):
cancer, and so that means thatof men with an elevated PSA
level, the majority of themactually do not have prostate
cancer, because the PSA test canbe elevated for many reasons,
and so I think a good analogy Ionce heard is to think of it
(17:23):
like the screening we do at theairport.
They want us to go through themetal detector and what have you
and what they are aiming for atthat step is anything that
possibly could be harmful setsthat off and leads to additional
testing.
(17:44):
In the case of the airport,leads to you know they come over
with the wand and maybe giveyou a little pat down, and so
they're essentially okay withthe fact that there will be some
false positives, some falsecases in which the alarms go off
when really that person doesn'thave anything harmful.
(18:07):
Same sort of idea with the PSAtest.
It will be elevated in themajority of men with prostate
cancer, but it is also elevatedin many men that do not have
prostate cancer and, in fact,the majority of men with an
elevated PSA.
If we were to biopsy all ofthose men, which was practiced
(18:31):
20, 30 years ago, we learn thatthe majority of those biopsies
will be negative.
And that's what the earlystudies showed was that if an
elevated PSA level which thathas been defined differently by
different groups, but generallywe can say that a PSA above
(18:55):
three is considered moderatelyelevated, if we biopsy every man
with a PSA above three, around75% of those biopsies will be
negative.
And so this led to the USPreventative Services Task Force
(19:16):
and other agencies that setguidelines for clinical practice
to say, well, maybe PSA testingis not a good thing, and so
that led to some recommendationsagainst PSA testing back in
2012.
Some recommendations againstPSA testing back in 2012,.
(20:01):
Those recommendations havesince beenarker tests or like
imaging tests that will help usto determine which of those men
with an elevated PSA truly needto undergo a biopsy, those that
are at higher risk of having aprostate cancer that could prove
harmful, and which do not needto undergo a biopsy.
Grantley Martelly (20:19):
I want to stress, though and I want to see
if you agree with this thatjust because PSA test is not
specific for prostate cancer,because prostate cancer has a
higher propensity of occurringin black men, because prostate
(20:45):
cancer has a higher propensityof occurring in black men.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (20:49):
We're not saying that early screening is
not important, because it seemsto me that it's even more
important because there's adouble likelihood.
Yes, yes, and many, many wouldagree with that.
I think I would consider myselfone of them.
Right, early screening anddetection of these cancers,
while they remain localized tothe prostate at a point where
they can be cured, really isessential.
(21:19):
Opposite side of that, or Iguess I would say, with the
caveat that, you know, screeningand a, an evaluation for for a
given patient needs to be donethoughtfully.
It needs to be performed in inmen who have a a life expectancy
of at least 10 years, which formen of average health goes into
(21:44):
the 70s.
But there is an age beyondwhich screening is no longer
advisable and you know, likewith all things, testing is,
it's that balance of of riskversus benefit.
My opinion is that the thebenefit of early detection does
(22:08):
far outweigh the the risks of ofscreening, as long as that
screening is done responsibly,as long as we're not using that
1990s pathway in which anelevated PSA automatically led
to a prostate biopsy, butinstead we are using additional
(22:32):
tests to help us understandwhether a given person with an
elevated PSA really is at riskof prostate cancer and should
undergo a biopsy, or whether wecan use these tests to rule out
those men that really do notneed one no-transcript.
(23:15):
Yes.
Grantley Martelly (23:16):
So early screening is really important,
but it's not necessarily onescreen that necessarily tells
you everything.
So our listeners need to makesure they have a good medical
team who is evaluating the wholeperson and then checking on the
early screen but then referringto the urologist or others who
can do these other tests beforethey get to the biopsy, so that
(23:40):
they're going through aprogression.
And then, after I was diagnosed, I even had another test.
Yes, the bone cancer test, andthen all of those things came
together when we finally sathere.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (23:56):
Here is what you have and here's what all of
them are showing yes, 100%.
You know, I always tell mypatients PSA is a long way from
a cancer test.
Right, it is not a cancer test.
It gives us a broad indicationas to whether we need to take a
(24:18):
closer look in terms of prostatecancer.
But in and of itself, it tellsus it could be the result of
just an enlarged prostate, itcould be the result of an
infection or some inflammationof the prostate.
And so you know, I would notever advise, you know, acting
(24:42):
upon a single PSA test alone.
But it is.
It is a great indicator ofwhether we need to take a closer
look at things.
Yeah, it's one tool in thetoolbox.
Grantley Martelly (24:56):
You got it.
So this is a great place totransition to the project that
you've been working on.
That is a great discovery forprostate cancer that we believe
is another way of screening andthat will help eliminate some of
the maybe additional tests thatneeds to be done.
(25:18):
So let's talk about yourdiscovery that you worked on and
tell us about that and how it'sgoing to help change the
landscape in prostate cancerscreening and prostate cancer
treatments.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (25:35):
Yes, absolutely, and so you know that
work, as I mentioned, westarted in 2019.
And the idea behind it was that, you know, still there were
some tests available that areoffered for men with an elevated
(25:57):
PSA to better identify, as wetalked about, whether that
patient needs to consider abiopsy or whether it can be.
It is one of those cases wherethe PSA is elevated, but the
overall risk of cancer is stillvery low to where a biopsy would
(26:18):
not be necessary.
And those tests were, you know,developed around a decade or so
or more ago, and they improvedupon PSA in that, rather than
just being a marker for prostateand potentially for prostate
(26:40):
growth, there were a series oftests that came out where, in
either the blood or the urine,we were able to identify markers
that were truly associated withcancer, and each of those
proved to improve upon PSA.
(27:02):
Now, there were some limitationsof those.
One is that each of those testsincorporated was just a marker
of prostate and prostate growthto tests that used either two,
(27:26):
three or four markers that weremore specific for cancer enabled
us to identify anotherproportion of those men with
elevated PSA that really did notneed to undergo a biopsy.
The limitation of those tests,however, was that one: They did
(27:46):
only measure up to fouradditional markers right, and we
have many years of researchthat have now identified several
hundreds of markers that areassociated with prostate cancer.
The other limitation is that,yes, those tests represented a
(28:10):
great advancement in that theyare specific, or more specific
for cancer, or more specific forcancer.
That being said, in recentyears, as we've talked about, we
(28:31):
learned that a proportion ofprostate cancers really don't
behave like cancer right,meaning that they don't spread
and they don't cause harm theway that cancers do, and so you
know, those are generally calledthe low-grade or low-risk
prostate cancers, and so thefocus of clinical practice, as
evidenced in our research andshown in national guidelines, is
(28:55):
that we need to be seeking todetect the other cancers, the
more aggressive ones, the onesthat do have potential to cause
harm, and the term that's oftenused for that is clinically
significant prostate cancer.
So folks will say clinicallysignificant prostate cancers,
meaning Gleason score seven orhigher or grade group two or
(29:19):
higher.
Those are the ones that,generally speaking, if detected,
are recommended to undergotreatment, because we know that
they can cause harm over overtime, and so we thought well, if
we can develop a new test thatA includes more than just three
(29:42):
or four markers, will do abetter job of identifying these
different pathways that can leadto prostate cancer.
Include some of the newermarkers, some of which were
discovered in our lab that arespecific for the higher-grade
(30:11):
prostate cancers, meaning thatthese levels are elevated to a
higher extent in cases ofhigh-grade prostate cancer than
they are in low-grade prostatecancer, and certainly than they
are in non-grade prostate cancerand certainly than they are in
non-cancerous prostate tissue.
We could develop a more accuratetest, and so, over the course
of several years, starting withpublicly available data, looking
(30:36):
at the genetic expression ofcancers in large data sets, we
identified around 50 markersthat appeared to be elevated in
prostate cancer, some of which17 of which were specifically
elevated in higher gradeprostate cancers, and we did
(31:02):
that in tissue, so in prostatetissue, and the important thing,
though, was that right, ifyou're looking at tissue, that
means you've already done abiopsy, and we wanted to develop
a test that could prevent thosebiopsies, and so we looked at
those markers in urine andtested whether we could measure
(31:26):
them successfully in urine, andfound that the vast majority of
them we could, and so then itbecame a matter of looking in
the urine of many, many, severalhundred patients with an
elevated PSA level, some ofwhich had gone on to be
(31:48):
diagnosed with cancer, some ofwhich had a biopsy but there was
no cancer, and we were able tofilter those 50 or so markers
down to the most important 18markers, and those are the tests
that make up the currentclinically available test, which
(32:13):
is called my Prostate Score 2,2.0, or MPS2.
We then applied that to aseparate population of around
700 patients who similarly hadan elevated PSA and underwent
biopsy, and we found that ifthose patients had used this
(32:37):
test, the MPS2 test had usedthis test, the MPS II test
between, depending on exactlythe population, between
one-third and one-half of thoseunnecessary biopsies that were
performed could have beencompletely avoided, while still
detecting upwards of 95% of theclinically significant cancers
(33:04):
that we set out to detect.
And so you know, what we wereable to uniquely do, also in
that study, is compare the newtest to two of the existing
tests, one of which was theoriginal my Prostate Score, and
(33:37):
we were able to compare theMPS-2 against tests in terms of
the ability to identify more andmore men that do not need a
biopsy, while continuing tocorrectly identify those that do
need a biopsy because they doharbor a significant prostate
(34:00):
cancer.
Grantley Martelly (34:02):
So today we're announcing the
availability of my ProstateScore 2.0 for all men around the
world, another test availablethat will help screen not just
screen for prostate cancer, butalso screen for how aggressive
that prostate cancer is.
I may, in some cases, eliminatethe need for a biopsy or early
(34:25):
biopsy in screening a prostatecancer.
This is a game changer for manymen.
This is a game changer for theindustry as far as we as
patients are concerned.
Our former patients, ourpatient advocates are concerned
because we know that there aremany men who avoid going to the
doctor, to avoid the blood testsor the other tests.
(34:47):
But now this test can be donein urine and we are excited
about it my prostate cancer 2.0.
And we're talking to a personwho actually made it happen.
So congratulations, dr Tassoyan, and there are going to be
millions of men around the worldwho will have your picture up
on their refrigerator.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (35:07):
I hope not Many lives.
No, it's.
Obviously it was a great teameffort.
There are dozens of members ofour research team that
contributed to this work, notthe least of which I years of
work now available as a a testfor for patients.
(35:49):
Right, it gets back to thatfirst year med student that was,
you know I was excited by theidea of being able to, to do
something that could help out Um, and here you know, it's now a
urine test.
Um, that can be done from home.
There's at-home testing.
Grantley Martelly (36:04):
Tell us how we can get it.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (36:06):
Yes, so the lab that runs the test is based
out of Ann Arbor, michigan.
It's called LynxDX, so that'sL-Y-N-X-D-X and the website is
(36:42):
lynxdxcom.
From there, you know, patientscan learn about the best way to
go about having the test ordered.
It does need to be ordered bytheir provider, and you know all
that information is issimilarly available on the
website, um, and you know youhad asked about the the best,
best cases for use, and so thatwould be, you know, absolutely.
Men with an elevated PSA,particularly in that range of 3
to 10, which we call the PSAgray zone.
(37:02):
This test, you know we providea urine specimen and the result
actually provides the percentagerisk.
So from 0 to 100% the risk thatif you were to go ahead with a
biopsy, what is the likelihoodthat that biopsy would detect a
(37:27):
clinically significant prostate?
Grantley Martelly (37:28):
cancer.
So the patients need to asktheir doctor about this test.
If the doctor doesn't bring itup, that's why we want to
announce it to our listeners.
To ask the doctor about themyprostate cancer 2.0, or MPS
2.0 test.
Is it available to them, howthey can get it and would it be
helpful to them?
Can you just buy it on Amazonor anywhere without a doctor's
(37:55):
prescription, or do you need tosee a doctor in order to get
access to MPS 2?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (38:00):
Yes, so at this point, it does still need
to be ordered by a clinician, soa doctor or a nurse
practitioner, advanced practiceprovider, and that can be done.
I am really, really impressedby what the team has done in
(38:22):
terms of the ability to orderthis test from the clinician
side is very, verystraightforward, very easy.
There's an online portal.
It really only takes a minuteand it can be sent.
Only takes a minute and it canbe sent.
(38:43):
You know, the test kit can besent directly to the patient's
home or, you know, if aclinician knows that they'll
want to be sending the test,they can have the kits there in
the office.
But at this point, it doesstill need to be ordered by a
clinician, by a healthcareprovider.
Grantley Martelly (38:59):
Well, that is great news.
Again, dr Sasanian, thank you.
And as we wrap this up here, inthe next 90 seconds or so, what
is your greatest advice thatyou want listeners to take away
from this episode today?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (39:13):
Yeah, you know I would say, like we talked
about and like I think you'vedone a great job of emphasizing
that, you know there's only a 20or 25% chance that that biopsy
(39:44):
would would prove to beworthwhile.
Um, meaning that you know around80% of those were negative in
the past.
Now get the blood tests, thePSA as a starting place, and if
that is elevated, certainlythere there are other tests that
do a very good job as well asMRI.
(40:05):
Imaging with MRI is also anoption to where I do like the
idea of using a test where, ifit's negative, we know that the
risk that we're not doing abiopsy but that that's the wrong
(40:28):
thing.
We know that the risk of thatis incredibly low and the data
for MRI are not quite as good inthat regard.
But both of the tests combinedcertainly have a role.
But this is not the inexactscience that it was 30 years ago
(40:50):
.
Things have come a long way andthe former idea that PSA
testing could be a bad thing,that was throwing the baby out
with the bathwater, and so nowwe've found a way to throw out
the bathwater but hang on to thebaby, you know, make sure we're
doing the right thing withoutputting patients through
(41:13):
unnecessary testing.
Grantley Martelly (41:15):
Thank you, Dr Tasayan, so much for coming on
the program today andintroducing this MPS2 test the
game changer we believe in theprostate cancer world, but also
for your information about allof the broader aspects of
prostate cancer, how we canapproach it work, and for your
(41:40):
research and your dedication, onbehalf of all the patients out
there, for bringing this test tothe market.
Every tool we have in thetoolbox is important in saving
lives, and the purpose of thispodcast has been to educate
people to listen to the storiesof men who've gone through it,
but also bring the currentresearch and current medical
practice to the forefront sothat our goal is to save lives.
(42:00):
Our goal is to reduce thelethal outcomes for prostate
cancer and other health careconcerns in people of color.
So thank you for your work andthank you for your dedication.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (42:12):
Thank you for having me on to talk about this,
but, as importantly, if notmore importantly, everything
you're doing as well.
Between this podcast and beinga patient advocate like you are,
as we've discussed offline withour friends and colleagues,
(42:34):
involving patients, involvingthe community in what we're
doing has to be our way forward,right.
Patients need to know that thework we're doing is for all of
us, right For them, for all ofus, our only goal is to reduce
(42:56):
the harm caused by, in my case,cancer and prostate cancer, and
so the work you're doing isincredibly important and
appreciate you and so gratefulto have gotten to know you.
Grantley Martelly (43:14):
Well, thank you very much and we'd have to
have you back again to talk somemore about urologic health for
men.
But thank you today and Ireally appreciate it.
My pleasure.
Realhealthblackmen@ gmail.
(43:39):
com To support this podcast.
Go to BuyMeACoffee.
com forward slashRealHealthBlackMen, buymeacoffee
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com RealHealthBlackMen and tobecome a corporate sponsor, send
us an email.
This is the Real Health Black Men podcast,
where we empower men to takecontrol of their health.
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Join us as we discusseverything from major health
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So if you're ready to level upyour health and your life,
you're in the right place.
(00:31):
Let's get started.
So today, my guest on realhealth black Men is Dr Jeff
Tesoyan.
We met recently at a conferenceand he's becoming a quick
(00:53):
friend.
I was very impressed by him andthe work that he's doing, so he
agreed to come on our podcastand I'm sure that you, our
listeners, will enjoy thispresentation, that you, our
listeners, will enjoy thispresentation, as we talk about a
new product that's coming tothe market, but also some his
research and some work that he'sdoing in urologic cancer
research.
(01:13):
So I'm excited to have DrTosoian on our program today.
Welcome, dr Tosoian.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (01:20):
Thank you.
Thanks so much, Grandley.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Grantley Martelly (01:24):
Thank you.
So let's begin by introducingyourself.
Tell us a little bit about youand your specialty, and how you
got to where you are today.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (01:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we can start from thebeginning.
I grew up outside of Detroit,of Detroit.
My mom was a school teacher,dad was a carpet cleaner, and so
really no one in my family wasin the medical field.
But strangely, from a young ageI was very interested in
(01:55):
medicine, and particularly incancer.
And so, as it turned out, overmy childhood really from the
ages of 10 to 16, my two parentswere diagnosed with cancer
three times, including prostatecancer in my dad in his 40s,
(02:17):
which is quite young, and so Ithink, through that, the
interest in cancer really becamemore of a mission, and by the
time I went to college I waspretty dead set on having some
type of impact against cancer.
So I went to college at theUniversity of Michigan, majored
(02:39):
in cellular and molecularbiology and joined a lab
studying the genetics ofprostate cancer, and that was my
first introduction to research.
And I'll be honest, that timespent in the lab I, yes,
certainly learned a lot, but italso, it felt a long way from
(03:01):
helping patients, way fromhelping patients, and that was
really what I was most eager todo.
And so I did have some secondthoughts about whether I thought
research would be a part of mycareer, I moved to Baltimore for
medical school, johns Hopkins,and toward the end of my first
(03:23):
year I met a urologist focusedin prostate cancer named Val
Carter, and I remember learningabout the research that he was
doing and saying to himdepending on what we find, this
could really help patientstomorrow.
To which he smiled and nodded,and so you know that had me
(03:47):
really excited about researchagain, seeing that it could have
that impact in the short term.
And Bell was certainly a leaderin the field.
He was one of the first torecognize that some prostate
cancers don't need to be treated, of the first to recognize that
(04:07):
some prostate cancers don'tneed to be treated but could
instead be monitored on activesurveillance.
And he had set up that firstprogram in the United States in
which low-risk prostate cancerswere closely monitored rather
than treated.
And over many years, and afterenrolling thousands of patients,
we published a series of papersshowing that it was, in fact,
(04:31):
safe to monitor certain patientswith low-risk prostate cancer.
And so now, in 2025 and for thelast several years, active
surveillance is considered thestandard of care for low-risk
prostate cancer.
The other thing that Dr Carterdid was, of course, with the
(04:51):
patient's permission, collectedblood and urine in our patients
so we could find better ways todetect prostate cancer at an
early curable stage.
And that was something thatinterested me a great deal,
because we know that the bestway to reduce the harm caused by
prostate cancer is to detect itearly, before it has spread, at
(05:16):
a stage where it's stillcurable.
And so I learned a great dealfrom him and other mentors at
Hopkins, and all in all, I spent11 years in Baltimore between
medical school and urologyresidency and a master's degree
in public health.
After residency, I went back toAnn Arbor, michigan, for a
(05:40):
fellowship in urologic cancersand translational cancer
research, and I think I'll pointout that when we say
translational research, I thinkthat's a term that a lot of us
aren't real sure what that meansall the time, and that's really
referring to translating thework that's done in the
(06:04):
laboratory into things that canbe used clinically to actually
help our patients, and so that'swhat's referred to by
translational research, and,unlike my initial time in Ann
Arbor as an undergrad, I now hada better understanding of what
(06:24):
was needed in research and how Icould use my training to that
point as both a researcher and aclinician and surgeon to help
fulfill that role, and so Istarted working with really one
of the probably the world's mostaccomplished lab scientists
(06:47):
there at the University ofMichigan, arul Chanayan, and he
was both a mentor and a partnerin the work that we'll talk
about today, which we startedback in 2019.
And just to fast forward totoday, and just to fast forward
(07:10):
to today, I did, after manyyears, finally finish my
training in 2021.
And I joined the faculty hereat Vanderbilt as the director of
translational cancer researchhere in our department of
urology.
I'm also a clinician andsurgeon, so I see patients here
at Vanderbilt and also at theNashville VA, and much of my
practice is focused in the earlydetection and management of
(07:32):
prostate cancer.
Grantley Martelly (07:34):
I have a question about urologic cancers.
Can you give us an idea of whatare some of the things?
When you refer to urologiccancers, what do you?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (07:42):
mean Absolutely, absolutely.
My training is as a urologiconcologist, which means a cancer
doctor within urology, and sothat's referring to prostate
cancer, bladder cancer, kidneycancer and testicular cancer.
Those are the main urologiccancers on which our work is
(08:09):
focused.
Grantley Martelly (08:10):
This episode we're talking about mainly
prostate cancer, but it's goodto know that there are those
other cancers that also affectmen, and I assume that some of
those cancers are also presentin women as well.
Is that true?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (08:25):
Kidney cancer and bladder cancer are a concern
in women as well, thoughprostate and testicular are just
for us men.
Grantley Martelly (08:36):
Just for us men.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe disparities in cancer,
because one of the ways that wemet was actually at a conference
and at an organization thatfocuses on the disparities of
prostate cancer, specifically inBlack people and people of
color, people of African descent.
So can you shed some light onthat?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (08:59):
Yes, we know.
In the US, approximately one insix men will be diagnosed with
prostate cancer throughout theirlives, and we know that age is
the greatest risk factor, right?
Folks have probably heard thecommon sayings if you live long
(09:20):
enough, almost all men willdevelop prostate cancer at some
point and so those risks,however, are higher in black men
.
Both the risk of being diagnosedwith prostate cancer is about
two times higher in black menand the risk of dying from
(09:44):
prostate cancer is alsoapproximately two times higher
in black men, and so this is, ofcourse, a point of great
interest and a point of study inthe field.
There have been some studies andthis is an important point to
make that there have been somestudies that have shown, in
(10:09):
healthcare systems where thereis equal access to care so the
VA, for example, where all vetsreceive the same access to care,
much of the disparity inmortality and death from
prostate cancer is eliminatedhas been shown to be
(10:32):
non-existent in a number ofstudies where care received is
equivalent.
And so, absolutely first andforemost, this gets into the
social determinants of healthand how important it is to
ensure that all patients haveaccess to good quality
(10:56):
healthcare.
That's 1A, first and foremost.
That being said, differences inaccess to care would not
explain why black men are morelikely to be diagnosed with
prostate cancer, and,furthermore, we know that when
(11:18):
we look at the actual tumorsprostate cancer tumors in white
men and black- men we do seedifferences in those tumors in
terms of their genetic makeup.
Absolutely reducing disparitiesand achieving equity in
(11:41):
healthcare needs to be at thetop of everybody's list.
That being said, there stillare some differences between the
races, particularly in terms ofprostate cancer.
That leads to some additionalconsiderations as we look to
(12:04):
reduce the harms of prostatecancer on our population and on
all of us and our families.
Grantley Martelly (12:14):
So you said the tumors look a little bit
different.
Could you give us a little bitmore information on that from a
layman's point of view?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (12:29):
that from a layman's point of view, yes, and
that gets a little bit trickyand we'll find our way somewhat
into the weeds.
But we can think of it as in.
There are different pathways atthe level of the cell that can
lead a cell to become cancerousthrough changes to its DNA or
mutations, and we found that thechanges that lead to cancer in
(12:55):
white men and black men, well,largely there are instances in
both races of given change,mutation A, leading to prostate
cancer.
The proportion of white menversus black men that have
(13:16):
certain types of changes thatlead to cancer differ between
the races, between the races,and so if black men, for example
, have mutation A, that leads toprostate cancer in 25% of the
prostate cancers we find inblack men there's one known
(13:40):
mutation that accounts for 50%.
That same mutation, we'll callmutation A, accounts for 50% of
the cancers in white men, and sothere's ultimately it's the
same pathways, but the frequencywith which those pathways are
(14:01):
seen does differ between theraces.
Grantley Martelly (14:07):
Now, does that mean that genetics of the
black population and the whitepopulation are different?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (14:15):
It's an excellent question.
It's an excellent question.
The answer is and this is whereit's very important to
distinguish between our, youknow, the genetics that drive
who.
We are right.
Our DNA, which we now know, isnot very different between black
(14:37):
men and white men, and, and sothat's called our, our germline
DNA, that's the DNA that we havein, called our germline DNA.
That's the DNA that we have inevery one of our cells.
By contrast, we're talkingabout the tumor itself, or the
(14:58):
cancer itself.
The term we often use for thatis somatic S-O-M-A-T-I-C.
The somatic genetics of thetumor itself is what differs by
race.
Grantley Martelly (15:11):
Thank you for that clarification, thank you
for that explanation, and youmentioned access as one of the
challenges, which we all know isimportant.
There let's talk about earlyscreening.
Is early screening important inhelping reduce the death rate?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (15:30):
Yes, absolutely.
That being said, this has been apoint of a little bit of
controversy over the last two orso decades when we talk about
screening for prostate cancer,screening for early diagnosis
that is initiated through ablood test called PSA.
(15:54):
That stands forprostate-specific antigen, and
this is a protein that's made inthe prostate and is detected
with a simple blood test.
Like most tests, it has itspluses and minuses.
The negatives of PSA is that,as the name implies, it is
(16:19):
prostate-specific, so thedistinguishing factor there is
that it is not prostatecancer-specific is a blood test
(16:41):
where the levels can be elevatedfor reasons other than prostate
cancer, and so when we talkabout PSA as a screening test
for prostate cancer, it'ssensitive for prostate cancer,
which means that the majority ofmen with prostate cancer do
have an elevated PSA level, butit is not specific for prostate
(17:03):
cancer, and so that means thatof men with an elevated PSA
level, the majority of themactually do not have prostate
cancer, because the PSA test canbe elevated for many reasons,
and so I think a good analogy Ionce heard is to think of it
(17:23):
like the screening we do at theairport.
They want us to go through themetal detector and what have you
and what they are aiming for atthat step is anything that
possibly could be harmful setsthat off and leads to additional
testing.
(17:44):
In the case of the airport,leads to you know they come over
with the wand and maybe giveyou a little pat down, and so
they're essentially okay withthe fact that there will be some
false positives, some falsecases in which the alarms go off
when really that person doesn'thave anything harmful.
(18:07):
Same sort of idea with the PSAtest.
It will be elevated in themajority of men with prostate
cancer, but it is also elevatedin many men that do not have
prostate cancer and, in fact,the majority of men with an
elevated PSA.
If we were to biopsy all ofthose men, which was practiced
(18:31):
20, 30 years ago, we learn thatthe majority of those biopsies
will be negative.
And that's what the earlystudies showed was that if an
elevated PSA level which thathas been defined differently by
different groups, but generallywe can say that a PSA above
(18:55):
three is considered moderatelyelevated, if we biopsy every man
with a PSA above three, around75% of those biopsies will be
negative.
And so this led to the USPreventative Services Task Force
(19:16):
and other agencies that setguidelines for clinical practice
to say, well, maybe PSA testingis not a good thing, and so
that led to some recommendationsagainst PSA testing back in
2012.
Some recommendations againstPSA testing back in 2012,.
(20:01):
Those recommendations havesince beenarker tests or like
imaging tests that will help usto determine which of those men
with an elevated PSA truly needto undergo a biopsy, those that
are at higher risk of having aprostate cancer that could prove
harmful, and which do not needto undergo a biopsy.
Grantley Martelly (20:19):
I want to stress, though and I want to see
if you agree with this thatjust because PSA test is not
specific for prostate cancer,because prostate cancer has a
higher propensity of occurringin black men, because prostate
(20:45):
cancer has a higher propensityof occurring in black men.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (20:49):
We're not saying that early screening is
not important, because it seemsto me that it's even more
important because there's adouble likelihood.
Yes, yes, and many, many wouldagree with that.
I think I would consider myselfone of them.
Right, early screening anddetection of these cancers,
while they remain localized tothe prostate at a point where
they can be cured, really isessential.
(21:19):
Opposite side of that, or Iguess I would say, with the
caveat that, you know, screeningand a, an evaluation for for a
given patient needs to be donethoughtfully.
It needs to be performed in inmen who have a a life expectancy
of at least 10 years, which formen of average health goes into
(21:44):
the 70s.
But there is an age beyondwhich screening is no longer
advisable and you know, likewith all things, testing is,
it's that balance of of riskversus benefit.
My opinion is that the thebenefit of early detection does
(22:08):
far outweigh the the risks of ofscreening, as long as that
screening is done responsibly,as long as we're not using that
1990s pathway in which anelevated PSA automatically led
to a prostate biopsy, butinstead we are using additional
(22:32):
tests to help us understandwhether a given person with an
elevated PSA really is at riskof prostate cancer and should
undergo a biopsy, or whether wecan use these tests to rule out
those men that really do notneed one no-transcript.
(23:15):
Yes.
Grantley Martelly (23:16):
So early screening is really important,
but it's not necessarily onescreen that necessarily tells
you everything.
So our listeners need to makesure they have a good medical
team who is evaluating the wholeperson and then checking on the
early screen but then referringto the urologist or others who
can do these other tests beforethey get to the biopsy, so that
(23:40):
they're going through aprogression.
And then, after I was diagnosed, I even had another test.
Yes, the bone cancer test, andthen all of those things came
together when we finally sathere.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (23:56):
Here is what you have and here's what all of
them are showing yes, 100%.
You know, I always tell mypatients PSA is a long way from
a cancer test.
Right, it is not a cancer test.
It gives us a broad indicationas to whether we need to take a
(24:18):
closer look in terms of prostatecancer.
But in and of itself, it tellsus it could be the result of
just an enlarged prostate, itcould be the result of an
infection or some inflammationof the prostate.
And so you know, I would notever advise, you know, acting
(24:42):
upon a single PSA test alone.
But it is.
It is a great indicator ofwhether we need to take a closer
look at things.
Yeah, it's one tool in thetoolbox.
Grantley Martelly (24:56):
You got it.
So this is a great place totransition to the project that
you've been working on.
That is a great discovery forprostate cancer that we believe
is another way of screening andthat will help eliminate some of
the maybe additional tests thatneeds to be done.
(25:18):
So let's talk about yourdiscovery that you worked on and
tell us about that and how it'sgoing to help change the
landscape in prostate cancerscreening and prostate cancer
treatments.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (25:35):
Yes, absolutely, and so you know that
work, as I mentioned, westarted in 2019.
And the idea behind it was that, you know, still there were
some tests available that areoffered for men with an elevated
(25:57):
PSA to better identify, as wetalked about, whether that
patient needs to consider abiopsy or whether it can be.
It is one of those cases wherethe PSA is elevated, but the
overall risk of cancer is stillvery low to where a biopsy would
(26:18):
not be necessary.
And those tests were, you know,developed around a decade or so
or more ago, and they improvedupon PSA in that, rather than
just being a marker for prostateand potentially for prostate
(26:40):
growth, there were a series oftests that came out where, in
either the blood or the urine,we were able to identify markers
that were truly associated withcancer, and each of those
proved to improve upon PSA.
(27:02):
Now, there were some limitationsof those.
One is that each of those testsincorporated was just a marker
of prostate and prostate growthto tests that used either two,
(27:26):
three or four markers that weremore specific for cancer enabled
us to identify anotherproportion of those men with
elevated PSA that really did notneed to undergo a biopsy.
The limitation of those tests,however, was that one: They did
(27:46):
only measure up to fouradditional markers right, and we
have many years of researchthat have now identified several
hundreds of markers that areassociated with prostate cancer.
The other limitation is that,yes, those tests represented a
(28:10):
great advancement in that theyare specific, or more specific
for cancer, or more specific forcancer.
That being said, in recentyears, as we've talked about, we
(28:31):
learned that a proportion ofprostate cancers really don't
behave like cancer right,meaning that they don't spread
and they don't cause harm theway that cancers do, and so you
know, those are generally calledthe low-grade or low-risk
prostate cancers, and so thefocus of clinical practice, as
evidenced in our research andshown in national guidelines, is
(28:55):
that we need to be seeking todetect the other cancers, the
more aggressive ones, the onesthat do have potential to cause
harm, and the term that's oftenused for that is clinically
significant prostate cancer.
So folks will say clinicallysignificant prostate cancers,
meaning Gleason score seven orhigher or grade group two or
(29:19):
higher.
Those are the ones that,generally speaking, if detected,
are recommended to undergotreatment, because we know that
they can cause harm over overtime, and so we thought well, if
we can develop a new test thatA includes more than just three
(29:42):
or four markers, will do abetter job of identifying these
different pathways that can leadto prostate cancer.
Include some of the newermarkers, some of which were
discovered in our lab that arespecific for the higher-grade
(30:11):
prostate cancers, meaning thatthese levels are elevated to a
higher extent in cases ofhigh-grade prostate cancer than
they are in low-grade prostatecancer, and certainly than they
are in non-grade prostate cancerand certainly than they are in
non-cancerous prostate tissue.
We could develop a more accuratetest, and so, over the course
of several years, starting withpublicly available data, looking
(30:36):
at the genetic expression ofcancers in large data sets, we
identified around 50 markersthat appeared to be elevated in
prostate cancer, some of which17 of which were specifically
elevated in higher gradeprostate cancers, and we did
(31:02):
that in tissue, so in prostatetissue, and the important thing,
though, was that right, ifyou're looking at tissue, that
means you've already done abiopsy, and we wanted to develop
a test that could prevent thosebiopsies, and so we looked at
those markers in urine andtested whether we could measure
(31:26):
them successfully in urine, andfound that the vast majority of
them we could, and so then itbecame a matter of looking in
the urine of many, many, severalhundred patients with an
elevated PSA level, some ofwhich had gone on to be
(31:48):
diagnosed with cancer, some ofwhich had a biopsy but there was
no cancer, and we were able tofilter those 50 or so markers
down to the most important 18markers, and those are the tests
that make up the currentclinically available test, which
(32:13):
is called my Prostate Score 2,2.0, or MPS2.
We then applied that to aseparate population of around
700 patients who similarly hadan elevated PSA and underwent
biopsy, and we found that ifthose patients had used this
(32:37):
test, the MPS2 test had usedthis test, the MPS II test
between, depending on exactlythe population, between
one-third and one-half of thoseunnecessary biopsies that were
performed could have beencompletely avoided, while still
detecting upwards of 95% of theclinically significant cancers
(33:04):
that we set out to detect.
And so you know, what we wereable to uniquely do, also in
that study, is compare the newtest to two of the existing
tests, one of which was theoriginal my Prostate Score, and
(33:37):
we were able to compare theMPS-2 against tests in terms of
the ability to identify more andmore men that do not need a
biopsy, while continuing tocorrectly identify those that do
need a biopsy because they doharbor a significant prostate
(34:00):
cancer.
Grantley Martelly (34:02):
So today we're announcing the
availability of my ProstateScore 2.0 for all men around the
world, another test availablethat will help screen not just
screen for prostate cancer, butalso screen for how aggressive
that prostate cancer is.
I may, in some cases, eliminatethe need for a biopsy or early
(34:25):
biopsy in screening a prostatecancer.
This is a game changer for manymen.
This is a game changer for theindustry as far as we as
patients are concerned.
Our former patients, ourpatient advocates are concerned
because we know that there aremany men who avoid going to the
doctor, to avoid the blood testsor the other tests.
(34:47):
But now this test can be donein urine and we are excited
about it my prostate cancer 2.0.
And we're talking to a personwho actually made it happen.
So congratulations, dr Tassoyan, and there are going to be
millions of men around the worldwho will have your picture up
on their refrigerator.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (35:07):
I hope not Many lives.
No, it's.
Obviously it was a great teameffort.
There are dozens of members ofour research team that
contributed to this work, notthe least of which I years of
work now available as a a testfor for patients.
(35:49):
Right, it gets back to thatfirst year med student that was,
you know I was excited by theidea of being able to, to do
something that could help out Um, and here you know, it's now a
urine test.
Um, that can be done from home.
There's at-home testing.
Grantley Martelly (36:04):
Tell us how we can get it.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (36:06):
Yes, so the lab that runs the test is based
out of Ann Arbor, michigan.
It's called LynxDX, so that'sL-Y-N-X-D-X and the website is
(36:42):
lynxdxcom.
From there, you know, patientscan learn about the best way to
go about having the test ordered.
It does need to be ordered bytheir provider, and you know all
that information is issimilarly available on the
website, um, and you know youhad asked about the the best,
best cases for use, and so thatwould be, you know, absolutely.
Men with an elevated PSA,particularly in that range of 3
to 10, which we call the PSAgray zone.
(37:02):
This test, you know we providea urine specimen and the result
actually provides the percentagerisk.
So from 0 to 100% the risk thatif you were to go ahead with a
biopsy, what is the likelihoodthat that biopsy would detect a
(37:27):
clinically significant prostate?
Grantley Martelly (37:28):
cancer.
So the patients need to asktheir doctor about this test.
If the doctor doesn't bring itup, that's why we want to
announce it to our listeners.
To ask the doctor about themyprostate cancer 2.0, or MPS
2.0 test.
Is it available to them, howthey can get it and would it be
helpful to them?
Can you just buy it on Amazonor anywhere without a doctor's
(37:55):
prescription, or do you need tosee a doctor in order to get
access to MPS 2?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (38:00):
Yes, so at this point, it does still need
to be ordered by a clinician, soa doctor or a nurse
practitioner, advanced practiceprovider, and that can be done.
I am really, really impressedby what the team has done in
(38:22):
terms of the ability to orderthis test from the clinician
side is very, verystraightforward, very easy.
There's an online portal.
It really only takes a minuteand it can be sent.
Only takes a minute and it canbe sent.
(38:43):
You know, the test kit can besent directly to the patient's
home or, you know, if aclinician knows that they'll
want to be sending the test,they can have the kits there in
the office.
But at this point, it doesstill need to be ordered by a
clinician, by a healthcareprovider.
Grantley Martelly (38:59):
Well, that is great news.
Again, dr Sasanian, thank you.
And as we wrap this up here, inthe next 90 seconds or so, what
is your greatest advice thatyou want listeners to take away
from this episode today?
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (39:13):
Yeah, you know I would say, like we talked
about and like I think you'vedone a great job of emphasizing
that, you know there's only a 20or 25% chance that that biopsy
(39:44):
would would prove to beworthwhile.
Um, meaning that you know around80% of those were negative in
the past.
Now get the blood tests, thePSA as a starting place, and if
that is elevated, certainlythere there are other tests that
do a very good job as well asMRI.
(40:05):
Imaging with MRI is also anoption to where I do like the
idea of using a test where, ifit's negative, we know that the
risk that we're not doing abiopsy but that that's the wrong
(40:28):
thing.
We know that the risk of thatis incredibly low and the data
for MRI are not quite as good inthat regard.
But both of the tests combinedcertainly have a role.
But this is not the inexactscience that it was 30 years ago
(40:50):
.
Things have come a long way andthe former idea that PSA
testing could be a bad thing,that was throwing the baby out
with the bathwater, and so nowwe've found a way to throw out
the bathwater but hang on to thebaby, you know, make sure we're
doing the right thing withoutputting patients through
(41:13):
unnecessary testing.
Grantley Martelly (41:15):
Thank you, Dr Tasayan, so much for coming on
the program today andintroducing this MPS2 test the
game changer we believe in theprostate cancer world, but also
for your information about allof the broader aspects of
prostate cancer, how we canapproach it work, and for your
(41:40):
research and your dedication, onbehalf of all the patients out
there, for bringing this test tothe market.
Every tool we have in thetoolbox is important in saving
lives, and the purpose of thispodcast has been to educate
people to listen to the storiesof men who've gone through it,
but also bring the currentresearch and current medical
practice to the forefront sothat our goal is to save lives.
(42:00):
Our goal is to reduce thelethal outcomes for prostate
cancer and other health careconcerns in people of color.
So thank you for your work andthank you for your dedication.
Dr. Jeff Tosoian (42:12):
Thank you for having me on to talk about this,
but, as importantly, if notmore importantly, everything
you're doing as well.
Between this podcast and beinga patient advocate like you are,
as we've discussed offline withour friends and colleagues,
(42:34):
involving patients, involvingthe community in what we're
doing has to be our way forward,right.
Patients need to know that thework we're doing is for all of
us, right For them, for all ofus, our only goal is to reduce
(42:56):
the harm caused by, in my case,cancer and prostate cancer, and
so the work you're doing isincredibly important and
appreciate you and so gratefulto have gotten to know you.
Grantley Martelly (43:14):
Well, thank you very much and we'd have to
have you back again to talk somemore about urologic health for
men.
But thank you today and Ireally appreciate it.
My pleasure.
Realhealthblackmen@ gmail.
(43:39):
com To support this podcast.
Go to BuyMeACoffee.
com forward slashRealHealthBlackMen, buymeacoffee
.
com RealHealthBlackMen and tobecome a corporate sponsor, send
us an email.
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