64. Leaning Into Faith with Anita Pilalis

Episode Transcript
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Jason Wagner (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Real Life
Investing Podcast with Jasonand Rachel Wagner.
We have a very, very specialguest with us.
Anita Palalis is here, andAnita and we actually go back to
Augustana days that's kind ofwhere we met, but we've been in
touch ever since we graduated in2012, because you have helped
with my business on the coolestpart, which is you provide these

(00:25):
amazing custom made home suitehome signs for anyone who has
ever bought a house for me, andso there's probably a number of
listeners that are like, hey,that sign is from Anita.
And actually yours is hangingright over there.

Rachel Wagner (00:39):
And then we have two more in the basement.

And then you've also made some cool the chart
sign that's up in the kids' room, and so Anita's got just a ton
of great DIY talents.
I do enjoy that.
Where did that come from?

Anita Pilalis (00:53):
Because we didn't have money for someone to do it
for me.
So I'm like, okay, if Iactually want something done, I
realize I'm going to probablyhave to do it, and I've always
enjoyed growing up a scrapbooker.
I'm like like that was my thing.
So then I was like, okay, no,I'm gonna get into stuff that I
can actually like see the fruitsof my labor like in the home.
So I think that's where itstarted.
And then, with the sciencestuff, it was just one of those
things where I'm like, well,this is fun.

(01:14):
And there was like a I feellike a period of time where
people were doing a lot doinglike the signs and stuff like
that, and so she like taught mea little bit more how to do that
and like how the frames cometogether and everything.
So it was just kind of it allkind of just came together.

Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

Because I used to go to.
Let's see.
I asked Kaylee and thenKaylee's.

Like I All right, so, but the whole, like we're
going to talk about a lot ofstuff with you because you're
just like so interesting.

Thank you, guys, I've never heard that before,
but I'll take it.

But the main conversation here is really like
rediscovering your faith andGod and Jesus, and so you wanted
to pray before we started thisshow.
So I'll let you take that away.

Okay, lord Jesus, just thank you for this time
that we get together.
Thank you for Rachel and forJason.
God, thank you for their heartand wanting to explore you more.
God, thank you for the firethat you're putting inside their
hearts, god.
I pray that this fire continuesto burn.
God, we know that you're doingrevival throughout this entire
nation, god, and I know itstarts at home and I know it
starts in their family.
God, and just hearing theirstory about how their kids

(02:22):
helped them to kind of come backto their faith too, and I just
pray, god, that you justcontinue to stir in their hearts
.
God, and I pray that anyonelistening that it helps stir
their hearts.
God, it helps them eitherquestion you more, wonder more
about you, god, explore more ofyou, god, because there's so
much to learn, god, and I justpray that just give us the words
to speak, god, give us thequestions to ask God, and just
please be with us in this room.

(02:43):
We thank you for everythingthat you do.
In Jesus' name.
We pray Amen, amen.
That was great.

That was amazing.

I actually am like I had more.
That I even probably wanted tosay originally, but I was like,
no, we'll just keep it nice andsweet.
I could go on for a while.

So I actually want to talk about that a little bit
.

Praying out loud is kind of hard for people.
Yeah, totally.
You just did that so eloquently.
It did not start like that, soI'll tell you that much I was,
so it kind of for me, servinghas been a really big thing for
me.
I love serving.
That's like something that myheart has just always leaned
towards, and obviously we seethat Jesus like his servant
leadership, he came not to beserved but to serve, and so
that's something that we want todo as well, and so that's

(03:29):
something that we want to do aswell, and so that's something
I've just like always beenleaned in towards, because,
especially like growing up forus, like I, we didn't have a lot
of money, so we often wereserved our family, which at the
time I don't think I realized.
Now I do.
But so in our food market Istarted serving there a couple
of years ago at church we have afree food market and one of the
women she said to me oh, youcan pray for people, and I was
like no, that's okay though.
Thank you so much though foroffering.

(03:50):
She's like okay, well, we'lljust maybe like little by little
, you can just add in somethings, or you can kind of come
sit with us and I would almostbe uncomfortable sometimes being
in the prayer circle, cause I'mlike I don't know what to say,
like I don't want to make themuncomfortable, I'm too worried.
Until I just had thisrealization of okay.
So she kind of just pushed meinto it and she's like just pray
for them.
And I'm like, okay, so I prayed,I was a little nervous I think
anybody is, you know, prayingand you're worried about what

(04:13):
you're saying Until I realizedI'm like no, this is my
conversation with God.
Like people are just listeningwith God and lifting him up and
he's also with us.
So that brings me comfort whenI'm praying.
So I'm just like no, this isn'tabout if I'm saying something
right or if I'm saying somethingwrong.
This is literally about whathe's putting in my heart and
what I'm sending back up to him.

(04:33):
So I think it's like when yourealize you're talking to a
friend, it just changes thewhole dynamic of the prayer.
Yeah, so that's reallyappreciate that.

I actually have a story about that.
When it was the first year thatour girls were at the school
that they're at now, I was doing75 hard and entered phase three
, and part of phase three is youhave to talk to a different
person, a new stranger, everysingle day, and so I had made
this decision.
Okay, I know there's a groupthat prays at the school it's
called Moms in Prayer, and I'mgoing to go into it and I'm

(05:01):
going to go pray.
And I had no idea what I waswalking into and it was a really
, really small group.
There was only probably likefour women there and they were
all it was one mom and the restwere all teachers at the school
and I I walked in and I think Iwas like expecting like someone
to kind of lead the whole thing,and it was a round table of
praying and we hadn't been goingto church yet and I was still

(05:22):
very, very like.
I was so uncomfortable.

Yeah, and.

I didn't, I didn't partake, I just listened
and I kept my eyes closed andjust let the circle go around
and they were very kind and,like you know, it was fine, but
I felt I felt so nervous and souncomfortable.
So I appreciate your take onlike it's your conversation with
God and your friend.
Yeah, yeah, maybe someday I'llgo back, but I have yet to go
back because I was sointimidated.

Yeah, when you realize like there is so much
power in prayer and God does saywhen there's two or more in my
name, I'm there, Obviously, he'swith us always, but I think his
presence is felt even more whenthere's two or more people in
his name.
And so when you think aboutthat and you really just put it

(06:10):
in the perspective of like thisis this is God working with us
right now.
This is this is a verticalthing in prayer, and I do think
it's a thing of where constantlywe're so worried about the
world and what other people arethinking that we just we get in
our own head and we startworrying.
Oh, I said the wrong thing, oh,I stumbled on my word.
Oh I and that's also sometimeshow I can.
I kind of feel like I mean Icould go down a whole nother
road.
But I do think it's the enemywhere he tries to whisper that
stuff at us so he gets in theway of our conversation with God

(06:32):
.
So it's like sometimes, we justneed to focus in on what we're
actually saying and what reallymatters.
You know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, I did.

I did do one prayer out loud and it was on
thanksgiving, okay, and I willtell you this yeah with family.

Yeah, totally totally okay.

So we had thanksgiving at my brother's
house and they always do thisamazing, obviously amazing feast
right, and you know, typicallyit's like all right, the host
usually has something to saybefore you have dinner and my
brother just.

I don't he forgot yeah and the food was enough, I
guess.
Yeah, he had a lot of fat inthe turkey, right, yeah, yeah.

You know, and then usually I kind of looked at my
dad.
My dad might say something, buthe didn't have anything, and I
was like, all right, I'm goingto take this opportunity.
Awesome, and I'm going to letit rip.
I ultimately I just closed myeyes and I just like kind of
forgot about everybody that wasin the room and I just started
speaking.

(07:26):
So kind of what you were justtalking about was having a
conversation with you and God,but what happened to me was that
I got emotional.

Oh, yeah, that happened, though Like insanely
emotional, everyone gotemotional, because then Jason
was emotional.

Yeah, it was very moving, but I want to comment on
this, because I think that wasa really powerful moment for me
and it also kind of goes back tothe day when we first went back
to church.

It was only two weeks after that.

It was yeah, oh, really.

Yes, because it was Thanksgiving and it was
right after the election that wewent to church.

Okay.
So when we went back to churchfor the very first time, when I
said I want to go, okay, Iwalked into that room and I was
like really scared.
And then I looked around ateverybody.
I mean this place was packedand I'm like there's probably
like 250 people in here andthey're all singing songs,
feeling it, and there's peoplewith their arms raised and like

(08:21):
I just lost it.

Yeah, it's, it's emotional.

I totally lost it.
What is that?

I personally believe that that's the Holy
spirit inside of you piercingyour heart, showing softening
your heart towards more of him,and the emotion that goes into
when, when you see people justcompletely vulnerable and
pouring their heart out to God.
It's not a show for everyoneelse, it's a show for God from

(08:46):
yourself praising him right.
So that's the deepest form ofvulnerability to me, is being
able to just have that time withGod and praising and worshiping
him, because I also had the.
So David grew up, my husbandgrew up in a Christian household
and in high school he wouldinvite me to church with him.
So I would come and whatever.
And I remember just so manytimes looking around being like

(09:07):
what is this?
Like everyone's like praising.
But then I would kind of feelsomething stirring inside me but
I'm like no, I'm like keep yourhands down, this is weird, this
is confusing.
So it was very weird for mebecause I didn't grow up in a
Christian household.
So it's confusing when youdon't have the Holy Spirit
inside of you or when you don'tfeel that stirring because it's
like what is happening.
But when you do have the HolySpirit in you and he's piercing

(09:28):
your heart and you start to getthose emotions.
It's like because you reallyit's that praise thing, it's the
praise thing and the worship toGod and that's just a form of
us, you know, honoring him andhumbling ourselves before him
and just like he's so good.
So in my opinion, when you'relike I think that was you being
touched by the Holy Spirit,feeling that emotion that comes

(09:49):
around with it, yeah, yeah.

So it's just a day that I'll probably, you know,
never forget, because it wasthat, it was just that
meaningful and it's like it tookme.
It took, it, took me over,right.

So was that like, do you feel like that could
have been when you are likeaccepting Christ in your heart,
or was that like was there astirring?

going on.
It felt like it.
Yes, it totally felt like it,yeah.

And I love those moments of like you'll never
forget it, like that's a momentthat you're saying, like I don't
know if that's exactly whatyou're saying, but I'm assuming
you're saying like I'll neverforget how I felt in that moment
.
And those are moments that Ithink are not to be forget,
forgotten, because that's afeeling of like oh, this is what
it feels like to be hugged byGod or his presence in our life,
like and I.

(10:30):
That's what I kind of pictureit as.

What was also interesting on that church
service was when they were doingthe baptisms too.

Oh cool.

Okay, I was going to ask you about it.

So we saw it seemed like there was a teenager
, there was an elderly woman andthen there was another guy,
middle age, and so they sharedtheir stories.
And I think just like puttingall of this together, which is
like because when you do thebaptism it's kind of like it's
the beginning right.

(11:01):
Or you know it's your you're.
You're declaring your lifeagain and you're born again,
right.
And it's just so funny thatthat happened to be our first
one, because we've been we'vebeen to a number of them after
that, and they didn't have it.

Yeah, it's not a coincidence for God.
I don't believe in coincidences.

Well, a lot of people would say, well, it is
just a coincidence.

But why do you say, why do you say it's not,
I've had too many moments in mylife with God where I'm like, if
that's a coincidence, like mywhole life is a coincidence,
because there's been so manymoments where I feel like direct
, it's a direct answer from God.
What you were saying to me islike have you heard the verse?
Like ask, knock and seek.
Ask and you will find.
Or knock and the door will beopen to you, seek and you will

(11:43):
find it.
I just said it wrong, so sorryfor who's going to backtrack
that we know exactly what you'retalking about though, but
that's what it kind of makes methink of Was that Matthew?

Was that Matthew?

I can't remember Probably I'm not the best with
like exact spots of it but Imean it's all in there.
I think that's is so cool,thinking about how you, just
like I, was listening to yourguys' podcast episode of the

(12:11):
faith one and you were sayinghow one day you just woke up and
you were like, yeah, I want togo to church.
And you were like, what?
You want to go to church?
Like where did this come from?
You were seeking aftersomething that has been put in
your heart and you werewondering about it.
And when you went to churchthat's what it makes me think of
is like you were seeking andGod answered in that moment
saying, no, I am here, this isthe real thing Now.

(12:33):
It doesn't answer everythingcompletely, but at least gives
you that stirring of your heartwhere you're like, oh, I need to
explore this more, I need toknow more about it, because look
already how far you've comefrom.
That moment of and God knows,and he meets us where we're at
Right, like, and that's thething too is like God also says
draw near to me and I will drawnear to you If you are drawing
near to him.
And I'm not saying that has tobe in a church because it

(12:53):
doesn't, but that is when you'rein a room full of believers.
It does do something to youemotionally.
It does do something to you,and to see other people also
seeking that same thing, godwill draw near to that, and so
that's where the thing I'm likeI that's the verse that popped
in my head was like the you wereasking, you were seeking and
you are finding.
So it's like, and God respondsto that.

(13:13):
So that's what it made me thinkof.

It was really cool I want to hear about.
When I first asked you to comeon here, you were like you're
kind of teeter tottering, yeah,yeah I love this because?
Because it wasn't aconversation that we were having
over the phone, it was a textconversation.
You're like.
Well, I don't know if I feellike I'm, you know yeah.
Right, but you totally are.

(13:36):
And like this is amazing andwhat makes it really relatable
for us is that you're a peer ofours, right, and I think that
that's more helpful, because wecan see you directly and like we
can relate to you, versus apastor who, may you know, have
been down this journey for avery long time, maybe much older
, and so, anyways, we, we justlike, value this conversation,

(13:56):
but I want to know, like, howdid you start?
How did you?
What was the day?
I mean, you said you grew upCatholic.

No, I didn't.
No, she didn't.
She didn't grow up in aChristian household.
Yeah, which?

surprised me so.

I'm curious on that story too Okay.

So, I'll give like a shorter version.
So I grew up in a prettydysfunctional household, I would
say.
My dad was an alcoholic.
He was verbally abusive to allof us and so I grew up in just
not a great household.
My mom went to church when shecould and things like that, and
she gave us the option of going.
So I will say that she did giveus the option of going, but
other than that, that wasprobably pretty much the extent

(14:31):
of like where my faith journeywas as a kid.
So my dad passed away when Iwas eight years old and I had a
pretty dysfunctionalrelationship with him.
He was just pretty brutal andwhich in turn, made me have this
just like view of God of beinglike who are you and why are?
Why did you let this happen tome?
Like, what did I do to deservethis?
And especially like, growing upin my neighborhood like I would

(14:53):
see other kids with dads whowere loving and great and I was
like, well, I didn't get a dad,but I'm a nice kid, like.
So I very much was in that likefield of why would God ever do
this to me?
Like what kind of God wouldever hurt a child when they
didn't do anything to deserve itRight.
I think a lot of us like fallinto the.
Our circumstances kind of makeus believe in God in one way or

(15:13):
the other, so I didn't believefor a long time.
It's cool now, though, becauseso there were.
I think there were multipleseeds planted for God in my life
growing up, but I just kind ofrejected it all.
And I also was big on in highschool I would see people say
they believed in God, and then Iwould see them getting drunk
one night or doing all thisdifferent stuff, and I was like,

(15:34):
oh, if you really believe inGod, like why are you doing that
?
Like aren't you supposed to belike you go on Wednesday nights,
like and do like the youthgroup stuff, and then you go get
drunk or something.
And I'm like, so I didn'tunderstand, first of all, that,
like we're all sinners, we allmake mistakes, we all are often
asking for repentance with God,but in my mind I just saw it as
like hypocrites.
So like for me, I had this likebad taste in my mouth of what I

(15:56):
saw church goers doing and thenwhat you know, I didn't see it
lining up, and that was a bigproblem for me.
So I had I don't know if Ididn't believe in God, I think I
was just more angry at a God.
I didn't know who that God was.
So that was like kind of mystory growing up.
And then David, my husband atthe time boyfriend he did go to

(16:17):
church though.
So again he would invite me tochurch, I would go with him to
church and you know, hear aboutit there, but I don't think.
But my heart was never touchedby it, like I was just kind of
like no, this is not for me typeof thing, and so, and again, I
don't know if it wasn't for me,I just think I was so angry that
I didn't have the capacity toaccept him in my heart, cause I
was like how could a God do thatto me, you know?

(16:39):
So then in college we kiddingin college we it was at.
Had you guys ever heard offields of faith at college?

Fields of faith.
Now that you say it, it doeskind of like.

You maybe went to it, I don't know because a lot
of people went to it.
So it was sophomore year.
We had a fields of faith thing.
Kaylee, who's one of my bestfriends, she was part of the
committee for fields of faithand she invited all of us to go.
We went with her.
She invited like a lot of someof the girls in our sorority
were a part of it too.
So they invited us to go and Iwas like, okay, I'm going to go
to support Kaylee and whateverit might be.

(17:17):
Kaylee is a whole nother part ofmy faith journey, which has
been.
She was an instrumental part of, like me, coming to Christ too.
But yeah, we came, we becamebest friends in freshman year
and she kind of planted seedsthere.
And even David, like now I kindof look back and I see letters
that he wrote to me where hesaid I'm praying that God will
soften your heart.
At that time I guarantee Ididn't even think twice about it
.
I was probably like, okay,whatever, like it doesn't matter

(17:37):
to me.
And then, like now I can lookback and I'm like, oh my gosh,
like those were seeds that hewas planting and and God was
softening my heart.
So, anyways, sophomore year wewent to fields of faith.
Fields of faith was where theyhad a pastor come on and speak
and he just preached a wordwhich at the time I didn't
really even know what that was.
So I was like sitting there andI remember just at one point,

(17:59):
everything he was saying wasliterally piercing my heart.
I felt like God was speaking tome, directly to me.
I felt like there was no oneelse there and I just felt like
I heard God telling me like whatare you going to do with your
life?
Like type of thing.
And like I was doing everythingevery other college kid pretty
much was doing getting drunk,like having just wild nights and
then, you know, waking up thenext day and then we do it again

(18:21):
and stuff like that.
So like I, you know, when I washearing him say this, I was, and
I will say, david and I werepretty dysfunctional in our
relationship.
We were just like fightingnonstop, because it's like I was
super insecure because I had adad who didn't love me and was
gone and I can never get thatpiece back.
So I just had grown up superinsecure and just like longing

(18:43):
for someone to love me and whichI just didn't realize that was
what God could do for me thewhole entire time.
I didn't need that from anyperson.
So, anyways, at this fields offaith thing, I just felt God
touch my heart and I was like,oh my gosh, he's real.
And I remember this was more ofa word where he was like you
know, you don't have forever.
Life is very short.
Like you, either gonna likeaccept Christ and and go to

(19:06):
heaven, or you're gonnapotentially go to hell, you know
.
So, like he, we were.
It was kind of like a.
It probably wasn't as likestraightforward, but I remember
I was just like whoa, what am Idoing?
When am I going to try toexplore this more?
And so I felt like the Holyspirit completely touched me.
So I think that day I acceptedChrist and which is cool, cause

(19:30):
the next day, I think, was mybirthday, or a few days after
that, and my friend gifted melike a little devotional and I
remember writing and being like,okay, I'm going to, I'm going
to do this.
I think I found everything thatI've been looking for in my life
, which is God, but I had nodiscipleship, which was really
hard, especially in college,cause then, if you're a new
Christian, you don't know whereto go with this, which is why
I'm so like proud of you guysfor actually exploring it,
because, I mean, you're oldernow too, so you, you know, you
understand that, like there'ssteps that you have to take in

(19:52):
order to like, learn more things.
As me as a college student, Ijust thought like okay, what
happens?
Nobody invited me to church,like nobody.
Like I had no discipleship, soI didn't know what to do, so I
just went back to my old ways.
And then it was once Igraduated college, but except
this, now I believe in God.
And when I graduated college,somebody invited us to our
church, which is now my stillchurch.
It was in like 2014, I believe,or 2013.

(20:13):
And I just haven't gone back.
Like that's when I felt like,okay, this is like where I want
to learn and grow in and this islike what life is all about is
learning who Jesus is and thenplanting those seeds for
everyone else and just growingin that relationship.
So that's like where you knowthe short version of my faith

(20:33):
journey.
Yeah.

What was it about that church that helped you
feel like that was the one CauseI think you know we're.
We have gone to two very, verydifferent churches.
We like both of them but we'rehaving a hard time Like how do
you, how do you know?
What is it about the churchthat Well for okay.

So two most important things for me in a
church.
Number one biblically based.
It has to be biblically based.
If it's more of like somebodyjust preaching something and
then like, at times, going backto like the word, that to me is
just like kind of like more oflike a show, whereas, like I
need it to be biblically based,I need your sermon to be based
around this what's in the biblelike, because that's super

(21:16):
important to me and especiallyright now there's so much
confusion with people and Ithink a lot of people are
distorting the word and andchanging things for what works
for them and how they want tolive their life.
So they want to distort it alittle bit so that they can
continue living in things thatthey're doing.
So for me personally, yeah, theword.

Why?
Why is there a distortion thatcould be happening and why would
the congregation allow it?

And how do you identify that?
Because I feel like I've heardarguments both ways right Of who
is distorting the word and howmany times it's been translated
so like it's not even what itoriginally is.
So how do you know and how doyou identify that?

Well, okay, so something that I would say is it
is biblical knowing that peopleare going to distort the word
and people are going tomanipulate it, and I think
there's actually a verse thatsays it and again, I wish I
could remember it exactly but ittalks about how people will
manipulate the word to fitwhatever they want, like kind of
their narrative type of thing.
So that is something that Ithink one of the ways you can

(22:23):
distinguish that is by readingthe word like and not just like
reading the word here and there,like reading it every single
day, because it's like when youhave a friend like you know that
friend because you're talkingto that friend every day and
you're getting closer with themand you're growing in
relationship with them.
Like a lot of people want tounderstand the Bible without
actually like growing in theBible and learning it and taking

(22:44):
time.
So that's my part of likeknowing what is real and what's
not.
And then, like the translationthing, that has been like
something that I've evenstruggled with, hearing people
say like, oh, it's beentranslated this time and this
time and this time I can't likegive go into the fruit like full
detail of that because I don'tknow all the ins and outs of it,
but what I do know is that,like a lot of the translations,

(23:06):
while they're not word for word,the meanings of like what
they're saying in it is stillthere and it's and it's and it's
still relevant Now, some of thecontext of like society back
then versus society Now.
I know things have obviouslychanged, so that's why, like,
women don't have to wear, youknow, head wrappings and
different things like that, andhave obviously changed.

(23:29):
So that's why, like women don'thave to wear, you know, head
wrappings and different thingslike that.
And I think that's why a lot ofpeople get, so they get so
worked up on like the specificsof that.
Well, why do you do this andyou don't do this?
And why do we just?
And it's, and I do think a lotof that, and I, I I won't get
too much into like the spiritualwarfare part of it, but I do
believe a lot of it is spiritualwarfare, where the enemy is
trying to whisper at us well,that doesn't make sense.
Well, why would this work?
Oh, why would you know?
And I, and that's where I thinkwe get manipulated, Cause he's
the, he's the father of lies, heis the father of manipulation

(23:52):
and trying to distort things,and I think that's where a lot
of people get hung up on stuff,because he'd rather us argue
about that stuff and the verysmall things rather than the
things that will actually befruitful and make us grow, which
is like just sticking to God'sword and actually believing it
for what it is.
I will say that you should gooff of like translations for me

(24:14):
personally, like that are easierto understand, like ESV or NIV
versions, where you know it'snot changing the word, the words
aren't changing, and I alsothink what's good is to have
like different versions ofBibles so that way you can kind
of go back and see the, what itsays in that one version versus
this version, and you can seeit's, the, the context is is the
same.
It might be just simple wordsthat people are trying to make

(24:36):
you know, stir something elseand to to throw you off of from
what the actual meaning of it issaying.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Yeah, you just got an ESV study Bible, didn't you?
Wasn't that what said yeah, Idid, cause we had Kate Salas
come on and she was messaging meand she actually recommended
that I get a study Bible.
And so, yeah, study Bibles aregreat, yeah.

And I mean and that's the thing too is either
you're going to believe thatthis is God's word and it's
alive, and it's active, and itis real, or you're going to get
hung up on the semantics of, ohwell, this word, this
translation says this and thisone says that, and it was
written over.
If you could actually go,there's this one image.
I don't know if you guys haveseen it, I'll send it to you
after, but it almost looks likea rainbow and it's all these

(25:17):
little things connecting.
Oh yeah.

You posted that.
Saw this the other day.

I was about to say, yes, you posted it and I
was actually going to comment onit.
That's one of my favoritethings because it's so cool.
If you actually listen to the,it's literally so many
prophecies that came, and howmany of the from the old
Testament with the new Testament, how they connect with each
other out of the times.
It's been translated.
Whether people want to say it'snot word for word or whatever it
might be, how is that possible?

(25:41):
How is it possible for hundredsand hundreds of prophecies to
come true and to connectthousands of years later,
especially when, like, forexample, when Paul was writing
the word, the word wasn't even aword yet.
You know what I mean and allthese things like came to
fruition.
And so it's just people, I justthink, want to get hung up on
the smaller things that actuallydon't matter.

(26:03):
Like, those things aren't whatpeople should be hung up on, in
my opinion.
And if they do, and maybe it'ssomebody that God has gifted
with the ability to make thatcase, but otherwise I think
people get so hung up on thatstuff where it's just, that's
just.
You're always going to havequestions, no matter what we do,
like always.

Well, Anita, that is such an easy explanation
because it's all just acoincidence.

Yeah, definitely See exactly.

I've got another coincidence in this life.

Yeah, absolutely that's true.
It's yeah, lots of coincidences.

Lots of coincidences, yeah, no.
So I actually want to kind ofI've been sharing that, I've
been going on this faith journeyand we're also going through,
like this wild thing that'shappening in our country right,
With new presidents and new, newpower right, so a lot of new
things happening very quickly.
That is upsetting one side and,and you know, and the other
right, and I've had a couple ofcomments come my way, which has

(26:59):
been interesting because andit's and it's been people that
aren't agreeing with where we'regoing right now interesting
because and it's, and it's beenpeople that aren't agreeing with
where we're going right now andand they have shared with me
they're like you say.
you're a man of faith, but Ican't believe you support this
because of what's happening.

Yeah.

It makes me just wonder like, well, do they, do
they have a point?
Is that something?
Or is that a very low blowcomment that you know?
I should just kind of brush offand, like you know and
rediscover.
So there seems to be.
You called it spiritual warfare.
Is this, is that?
Do you think that's part of it?

Oh yeah, the enemy, like it's again, it's
biblical he he comes to causedissension between people, to
cause he.
He literally says, like thathe's coming to like basically
break apart families and thingslike that.
And also I will say Jesus alsosaid that he didn't come to
bring peace, but also what'sgoing to happen is mother

(27:56):
against mother and ourdaughter-in-law, son against
father, like things.
Jesus himself causes disruptionto the peace sometimes and he
will cause disruption tofamilies and friends, because he
is the truth, the way and thelife, and what Satan wants
people to believe is that we aretrue and we are our way is the

(28:19):
way and all ways lead to heaven.
And you know, I think that'sthe thing.
He's a master manipulator andhe wants people to be angry with
one another because that justcauses more tension between each
other and it's not going tocause people coming together for
Christ.
And so for me personally, I'veseen Satan in all of this.
It's been really interesting.

(28:41):
But again, this is like a wholeother thing.
I can go down, but that's why Itotally believe we're in that
in times Like if this is likefourth quarter, we all are like
gearing up, because it is one ofthose things where he's running
rampant right now and a lot ofpeople are believing his lies
because a lot of people arechoosing to choose their way
versus the way, and so yeah,that's a really good way to put

(29:04):
it.

Their way versus the way yeah.

It's, it's scary and like that's the thing, cause
even like me, I postedsomething about the election.
I just posted like about how somany people are putting their
hope in Trump, so many peopleare putting their hope in Harris
, so many people are puttingtheir hope in a party versus a
party and, at the end of the day, that's going to lead to
literally nothing.
That's going to lead to.
I'm not saying like obviouslywe need people going for both

(29:30):
parties and we need peopleadvocating and doing the right
things, but I'm saying if peoplearen't putting their hope in
Jesus and if people aren'tliving their life for Jesus,
like that that's all going tomean nothing.
It's going to be absolutelynothing.
So we need there's good peopleon both sides at the end of the
day, and for somebody to accuseyour character for believing in
something that's opposite tothem, I would say that they're
completely wrong with that and Iwould say that's more of their

(29:52):
character versus yours.
It shows their ignorance versuswhatever they were saying about
you.
Because I also had times duringthe election where I'm like
gosh, like what side should I begoing for?
What am I?
Am I voting for the right thing?
Am I doing the right thing.
And then I started questioningmyself and I'm like no, this is
exactly what Satan wants is forme to question my beliefs and

(30:12):
what I?
Okay.
So I think we all have certainthings that we're passionate
about.
You guys, are you passionateabout 75 hard right?
Like passionate about thingslike that, and like that's for
you guys, that's going to besomething that's that you know
yields fruit right In your life,like a lot of good things came
from that.
Some other people will seecertain things, like I'm saying
for I don't, I'm not a politicalperson, so but for their side

(30:34):
that they're so convicted aboutand while that's great,
sometimes we can also forcertain things politically, I
think we can lose sight of whatthe actual end goal is, which is
eternity in heaven with Jesus.
So I'm saying, like I think weneed people to advocate for you
know, certain things, like whatyou guys were saying 75 hard.
I think people need to advocatefor other things, like God has
gifted people with the abilityand the passions to do those

(30:55):
certain things.
And sometimes, though, we doget so convicted, thinking it's
just like, oh, it's only thisway and only that way, and
obviously, if people knew you,they know they should be
questioning your character of aperson Like I see you as a
father, as a husband, assomebody who's trying to
genuinely help people.
But I think there's again, Ijust think it's the enemy.
I think he's like putting somany whispers in people's ears

(31:17):
that they're only wanting to seetheir side.
So when they see you speak ofsomething that's not what they
believe or that they think to betrue, then they're going to
automatically go at yourcharacter, which is what satan
wants, and then you startquestioning yourself, and then
you, you digress, and thenthings don't happen, I don't
know.
Sorry, I talk a lot with thatstuff.

No, that's all of a sudden.
That makes a lot of sense yeahit makes a lot of sense.
It's sometimes, I mean, for meright now it's like I believe in
god, I believe in jesus, but Inever really believed in satan
because I, for some reason, Ididn't really think that was.

That's his biggest tactic right is
literally for you not to believein him.
Interesting that's the scarypart and like it sounds woo woo
and it sounds like, okay, I needto like go take, like go calm
down or something.
But it is, is a real thing andI've heard that said before that
like Satan's best tactic isliterally you not believing in

(32:12):
him and believing that he's notreal.
But if we have Jesus, we knowthere's an enemy and if and sin
all started from him.
So it's like if we don't, if webelieve in one, you have to
believe in the other, becausethat other is real and he is the
ruler of this world, the worldthat we are in.
That's why there's so muchchaos, there's so much
dissension, there's so muchconfusion.

He's the ruler of the world, yes, of this world.

God has given him the power over this world, but
obviously God has the ultimatepower.
But no, satan is.
This is his kingdom, his worldhere, and Jesus's kingdom is
everything, he's in charge of itall.
But no, satan's kingdom isright where we're at.
It's kind of scary, but again,the only person who can?
yeah, the only person who can um, yeah no, the spiritual warfare

(33:00):
stuff is is pretty intense whenyou actually start reading it
and you're like, oh no, this islike a real thing.
And when you start to identifyit, you start to see his
manipulations and lies andeverything Like right now, the
world that we're in, like tryingto tear apart the family.
That is his.
Like he is doing work right now.
Like he's doing work, but likeI actually heard today I was.

(33:20):
His name is Pastor PhilipMitchell.
He's great, like he is on fire.
He is bold, though Like he isbold, he's not for everybody.
And he was saying because,obviously, with the family,
super important, right, that'swhy I was so I'm so impressed
that you're doing this, jason,because you, as the father and

(33:42):
the leader of your household Idon't know if you realize the
impact that you're doing in yourown home and then for all the
people that are being influencedby you, by you know, your
social media stuff, by your work, everything like that.
But he was saying how a lot ifSatan can tear apart the dad
from the family, he's likealready won a lot because the
dad has such an important rolethere's.
Actually I forget what thestatistic is, but it says like

(34:04):
if a mom learns the Bible andstarts doing and starts
following Jesus, there's a 17%chance that her kids will follow
suit.
Okay, if the dad does it, it'slike 60 to like 80% higher.
Wow, yeah.
And that's because the male Goddesigned the men to lead.
And I again, totally contraryto our society.

(34:26):
So it's, it's really a scarything.
But so he said this morning hewas on a podcast episode I was
listening to and he said how?
So?
God is our father, right?
He's the father, the son andthe Holy spirit.
So our father, that's it.
That's our first line with himas our.
He's our father, right.
So what if Satan goes into thehome?

(34:46):
Tears apart that father, notJesus.
But not Jesus, you know, father, son and Holy Spirit.
Not that the earthly father.
Okay, tears apart that family.
Now this kid and the family willhave this bad look of the
father saying, gosh, my dadwasn't there for me.
My dad was an alcoholic, my dadabused me.
My dad was pretty terrible.
So now I grow up believing thatall fathers are bad.

(35:09):
So when I hear again, tying itback to my own thing, when I
hear, oh, your father in heaven,I'm like fathers, they're just,
they abandon you, they're meanto you, they speak, lies over
you.
My whole life has been atrajectory of trying to figure
out these father wounds thatI've been given.
Instead, what if I had a fatherwho spoke life into me and was

(35:32):
good to me and everything likethat, and how much more I could.
Well, I believe my story wasmeant to be my story, but what
I'm saying is he was sayingSatan attacks the father of the
home.
He's not only attacks the home,but he wants to attack the
family.
But he wants to attack thefather of the home because if he
can get the father, how muchmore he can get in the family?
So again it goes back to whereour world is right now.
It is so messed up People arenot even wanting to believe,

(35:55):
like men are men and women arewomen, like he wants to just
distort it all so that way hegets more people for hell.
And so it's just a reallyinteresting thing when, when you
think, like it's cool to seeyou go through this kind of
confusion, confusing journey,but also you're, you're hearing
people go at your character too,for you know, having different

(36:17):
political views from them which,if we can't disagree in this
world, like yeah, that's that'spretty messed up, like, but
anyway, so for me, I've justseen him written all over it,
and so I, when I said somethingto my post about you know, it's
not about Trump, it's not aboutHarris, but it's about Jesus and
leading our waves, our lives,back to Jesus.
Cause if we do gosh like, ifpeople knew the peace that he
gives you and and the comfort hecan give you, that nothing

(36:41):
literally not a million dollars,not a new car, not at all of
that fades away, but Jesus isthe one thing that remains, and
I just don't think peoplerealize that and that's why it
breaks my heart.
And so when I've seen peopletearing apart other people's
character which mine's beenquestioned too so I totally get
that and I'm like no, like thisis, this is exactly what Satan
wants.
And so that's why one of myfavorite things this would be my

(37:03):
like tip to you is James he's,I believe it's James.
Now I'm like getting a littleconfused, but it's slow to speak
, quick to listen and slow toanger, and that's like my
favorite go-to when I'm oh hello, when I'm like in the moments
of like just questioning, likehow I want to respond to
somebody, I'm like if I'm slowerto speak what I want to say,

(37:25):
cause my tongue wants to go like.
I want to say something back andjust like, especially if
someone's like questioning yourcharacter, it's like you just
want to let go.
But then you're like thinkabout it and you quick to listen
, you hear the lies in it andthen you see Satan in it and
that's how you can respond, asJesus would respond, versus how
the world would respond, whichis lashing back out with our
words and things like that.
Sorry, the hair is going over,yeah.

That's, you put a really fantastic perspective on
it and actually it makes methink a lot about okay.
So we talk about male figuresin the household a lot.
We've personally we've had anumber of conversations about
how we do kind of feel likethere were political issues in
this country that was actuallydesigned to tear apart the

(38:09):
households.

Totally.

And in which may be stemming from Satan.

Not, maybe I think it is yeah.
I mean, as you're explainingthat, I'm just like.

Right, just tying it together, right, yeah, yeah,
I feel like you can wereexplaining that I'm just like I
feel like you can.

You can see that happening very clearly now.
But even like looking back overhistory like you said, we've
talked about it a lot I feellike when I first left my job to
stay home, it was a total likeit took me a really long time to
get comfortable with that Likeprobably a year and a half to
find comfort.
And it was just like thisconstant internal struggle of
like this is not what I wastaught, this is not what I'm

(38:46):
supposed to be doing.
I wasted, you know, all thistime and education, and I mean
we're still paying student loans.

So what am I?

doing Just like it was such an internal struggle
and like I am beyond that.
And as I look back on it, I'mjust like wow, like it was like
a kind of like a purposeful.
Absolutely I don't know whereit stems from, but it was like a
purposeful.
What do I want to say?
I don't want to saybrainwashing that has such a
negative connotation, but justlike no, I mean kind of yeah.
Yeah, like I had, there was alot of undoing that had to be

(39:16):
happening.
And when I think about like myfulfillment now, my happiness
now and the way I spend my day,it's I can't believe where I was
before.
You know it's.

it's way more fulfilling now and I'm doing
things like making sourdoughbread you know making homemade
crackers, and it sounds crazy,but like no, you're taking it
back to the basics of life.
And not only that, but likeyou're nourishing your family in
a way that maybe you wouldn'thave been able to do.
So.
The the family is so important.
It is just like crucial thatfamilies stay together.

(39:50):
But people like marriage ratesare down, divorce rates are up,
like just dysfunction in thehousehold, and I and I did grow
up having kids.

Yes, that's exactly it.

And because people don't want to be kids.

Well, because people don't want to be well,
because people don't want to behindrance, like they don't want
the hit, like we're told it's ahindrance.

It is a hundred percent.
And, like I even heard on a notgood show, you should not watch
.
That's just bad for your brain,but sometimes you need it.
So there was this one show andthe girl said I want more for my
life than just having kids andtaking care of them.
And I was like who are you?
Like?
I was.

(40:28):
I was so offended because I'mlike, and I was going to David
saying that he's yeah, so what's?
He goes, that's what.
That's what a lot of peoplewant nowadays.
They want this like yes, boss,lady, like go work, and I'm all
for that If women want that,absolutely all for that.
If women want that, absolutely,boss, lady, boss, man, whatever
you want to do, go ahead and besuccessful in what you do, but
make sure your home is in a goodplace too.

(40:56):
And not only that, but kids arenot a hindrance.
You are literally disciplingthe next generation of Jesus
followers.
It's starting in the home.
I think about how much stuffbecause I am in therapy.
I go once every other week andit has been such a beautiful
thing, but I have found so manythings in my life that are have
been hindering my growth in justlife, because of all the trauma
I had as a kid, I'm like itstarts in the home and like, if

(41:18):
we can like and again, if Satancan keep us in this place of
just staying like really upsidedown, we're very much in an
upside down kingdom.
But if he can keep us in thisplace of just like women working
all the time and not staying athome and thinking their kids
are a hindrance and not growingfamilies, like yeah, how much

(41:41):
more is he doing?
Like can he do you know?
And it just I don't know.
It freaks me out a little bit.

I echo that a lot .
I won't go into any specifics,but I we have had a lot of
conversations about this too.
Now, becoming a parent makes meso much more aware of how
impactful my childhoodexperiences or traumas were and
shaping how I view the world andhow I respond to the world and
how I'm parenting, and so I'm,I'm, I'm constantly, like you
know, trying to readjust, and weI think I had very different

(42:09):
childhoods, and so it'sreflective of of how we parent
and how we respond to the worldand view the world, and it it
does start at home.
It's so important.

Well it's.
It's scary too, because I feellike so much of the world is
like if it's not serving you,let it go.
If it's no longer making youhappy, let it go.
Which is, like why do peopledivorce?
Because marriage isn't easy,like I think we all know like
nothing about marriage is easyand that's what I wish people
would realize more.
It's like it's work you have toput in work to make your family

(42:40):
stay together and to sustainthat good foundation.
But like it's a scary thingbecause the world tells you gosh
well, this life is short.
If it's not making you happy,like, let it go.
If it's not serving you like,let it go.
And it's like no, that's,that's, that's lies, that's
direct lies from the enemy.
And this is how families arebeing torn apart rewarding

(43:00):
things in life for the hardest.

Oh yeah, absolutely work for them.

Yeah, yeah but it's cool, like even we're
hearing you guys say, like yourdaughters want to pray before
dinner.
Right is that from?
I thought I heard that and likethat's a cool, such a cool
thing and like that's like a.
I think that's absolutelybeautiful because it made you
even more want to know moreabout exactly like that's a
really cool thing.
And like I don't, I just it's abeautiful thing.

(43:23):
Like, obviously, having kids isvery hard and like staying at
home, mom, is not glamorous itis not glamorous in any sort of
way.
And like that's the thing oflike everyone thinks you know
you should be, like, especiallyif you graduate from college,
like you can be doing all thesebig things and like, yes, but
this is really big what I'mdoing right here.
Because when you see those kidspraying, when you see those

(43:44):
kids worshiping God, when yousee those kids doing nice things
for a person across the street,like that is like what's
fulfilling to the heart and thatis something that is going to
carry on for generations, versuslike making a thousand extra
dollars a month or something.

I don't know.
And if you're not doing it,you're handing it off to
somebody else.

You don't have to teach them, yeah you don't.

You don't, and that was impactful for me when I
started seeing that with like,really like homeschool moms too,
of like, just saying, like youknow, I'm outsourcing the
parenting and the development ofmy child to somebody else and
for some people that's great andfor some people you know that
works, yeah it has to be

we want.
No, Right.
But that's the thing too islike I would say, like with
being a Christian and I won't gooff on too much a tangent but
like it's hard because you'rechoosing the different route.
A lot of times you're notconforming to the world.
That's also another versus,like do not conform to worldly
patterns and like we're notconforming to the world when we
do decide to homeschool or stayat home or whatever it might be,
because you're choosing what'sbest for you and your family and

(44:47):
what God has led you to, and alot of times it's different than
what the rest of the worldlooks like, and so it can be
really hard to step out and makethose changes.
Like you said, you faced a lotof those battles in your brain
about whether or not the loansthing.
What am I doing?
Am I just throwing this away?
Why did I even All this stuff?
But now you're here and you seethe fruit of your labor, of

(45:09):
being at home with your kids andagain, that's not for everyone,
but like sometimes it takes usgoing off route and doing our,
doing where God's leading us anddoing something.
That's maybe the more difficultor different route to get the
fruit of that.

Can I ask you something?
Yeah, okay.
So we have a big challenge withchoosing making the right
decisions, and sometimes the waythat parents are making these
decisions are like we want tomake them in the best decisions
of our kids, but in the outsideworld, sometimes, if you're

(45:40):
making the best decisions foryour kids, well, you're actually
impacting the other kids downthe street or the kids that
might be in that classroom.
Specifically, I'm talking aboutlike vaccinating your child
versus not vaccinating yourchild.
Right, and there's a lot ofconfusion about it right now.
Okay, how is somebody supposedto look at and how is God

(46:01):
supposed to help us make thisdecision on what we should do in
these moments, if we're beingpulled towards one way, maybe
more of our heart, or?
What we believe our gut right,but others may look that it
could impact the people down thestreet or the other people in
that classroom, right.

Yeah.

Any advice on that .

I wish I had great advice for that, but I
don't.
I would say, like you said, yousaid something about your gut
intuition.
To me that is something that,again, that's like taking
working through therapy and isrealizing that gut intuition
that God has given me, to trustthat, like God's given us our
and we can't tell people whatmight work for our child might
not work for their child becausethey might have special needs

(46:43):
and our child might not havespecial needs.
But what you can do is you haveyour area of influence with
your own children and whilepeople might say that might
impact their children inwhatever way, them swearing in
their home might impact my childtoo.
Like there's a lot there could.
If you had to think of every youknow.
Or just like I'm trying tothink of the word but I can't

(47:05):
think of it.
But if every consequence of adecision that you made you'd go
nuts.
That's not.
That's so for me personally.
And how I make those biggerdecisions is I pray about it all
the time.
I pray about the things thatare affecting me and pray about
the things that are that I'mfeeling compelled about.
So, for example, ifvaccinations is something that
you're feeling placed on yourheart that either you don't want

(47:27):
your daughters or you do wantyour daughters to be vaccinated.
I would pray about that to Godand yes, I understand everyone's
perspective of that.
It might affect the child onthe street who, if your kid gets
, I don't even know what thethings are anymore at this point
because everything is.
But I would say that's aconversation that you can have
with God and let God playsomething on your heart and let

(47:48):
him either confirm what you'refeeling or lead you in a
different direction, becauseyou're never going to have a
hundred percent one way or theother, because I think there are
a lot, of, a lot, a lot, a lotof bad things in vaccine
vaccines and in our, in thepharmaceutical companies and
other things like that.
But then there are some childrenwho absolutely have to have it.

(48:08):
So it's like there's nevergoing to be a right way or wrong
way.
But what you can do is justfocus in on your own family's
influences Because I hate to sayit, I mean you're just going to
love your neighbor absolutely100%, but you can't have every
perspective at you.
There's no way you're going tobe able to make a decision.
There's always going to besomething else.
So I just think, focusing on,first and foremost, your

(48:30):
relationship with God andtalking about it and letting him
confirm in your heart where hewants you to go with that and
then making the decision foryour own family, not based on
other people.

Is there a biblical stance on that?

And vaccines?
Yeah, I don't know.
That's a great question.
I haven't looked at far enoughinto that.
I'm sure there probably issomething that you could find to
confirm it one way or the otherbut I do.

I'm sorry no.

I will say I I believe that God designed our
bodies perfectly Like.
I believe that God designed ourbodies perfectly like, and
we're all going to go throughcertain things based on how he's
laid out our stories.
That being said, I, I think Iam.
I I'm just more of a naturalperson.
I, I just I prefer the naturalroute more than anything,

(49:18):
because I do believe he'sdesigned us in such a way to do
so with things here on earth,like herbs and and and things of
this earth that he can provideus with.
But that would just be my ownpersonal perspective and again,
my own opinion, which doesn'tmatter.

It's interesting.
We were talking about this alot yesterday.
We're we're in a little bit ofa decision mode with this
pregnancy.
Without going into like toomany details, we have to make a
decision on whether or not I'mgoing to accept a certain
product which I have in the pastwith my other two daughters.
But things have changed for usquite a bit and I I'm toying
with the, the pressure of the,you know the doctors being like,

(49:55):
well, if you have this,everybody gets this.
This is just how it is.
We don't even really have thatmuch data to support, if you
don't, you know this, this kindof fear mongering, pressure
Versus.
I had this moment with Jasonyesterday.
I'm just like you know, I Ijust don't think that God would
have created such a weird moment.
And then I was like, well, Ican't believe it just came out
of my mouth, where I was justlike I just don't think God

(50:15):
would have made it possible forus to have a life if I needed to
have this other thing in therein order to protect this life
and this life going forward likeI, I just don't know that I
believe that I mean I was likeokay, I'm not, you know, it's
like this internal struggle oflike it's so different thinking
than what I've had in the past.
But I don't know if you want togo into detail or not.

Well, yeah, well, ultimately, I mean, the decision
here is that you know rachel'sobviously pregnant and she's
doing may, yep, and you knowshe's going to doctor and so
there's these things that shehas to do and so.
But the risk at which we'rebeing told about is that, well,
it may not impact this pregnancybut it may impact your next one
, Right?
So we have two kids right nowWe'll we'll have our third.

(50:56):
And then it's like, oh well,we're like, right now, that's,
that's a lot, Right.
And you know, we didn't evenhave any mid decision if we were
going to have four kids.
I guess I also like just kindof took, took a step back and I
was just like, well, if Godwants us to have a fourth child,
he'll have.
He'll let us have a four child,and if not, then he won't.

And that's surrendering to him and that's
humbling yourself before him andbeing okay with his decisions.
So that's what kind of made methink of when you were saying
that was, ultimately, you kindof have to come down to do I
trust God or do I not?
So, with what he's laying onyour heart, specifically, if

(51:40):
he's telling you not to dosomething, or if he's telling
you to do something and you feelit, and that's that intuition
inside of you that's telling youone way or the other, you got
to either trust that eitherGod's going to handle it or he's
not.
And that's the thing.
And then I mean also, it's nice, obviously, you have facts.
Now you can look at stuff andread stuff and figure it out for
yourself and and investigatethings for yourself.
But I would say that is likethat is the one thing that I

(52:03):
have found comfort in withbasically everything.
Every decision I've been makingin life now is like okay, god,
I've, I've, I've come to you,I've done, I've done what I'm
supposed to do, I'm supposed tobe talking to you.
Right, I go to, I go to him, Italk to him, I go through, I
have that prayer conversation,and that is something that's

(52:26):
most important to me.
But then also, going back tohis word, his word is alive and
it is active and he will leadyou to things in ways that you
don't even realize, sometimeswhen you're asking for certain
things.
That has been one of, like, themany coincidences in my life
that, like it's so cool becauseI will be praying specific about
something and I'm not jokingyou I'll open up his word and
the next morning it's like, andI'll just be in my daily reading

(52:47):
of, like whatever Ispecifically had not seeking out
anything specific, and it'llanswer the exact question that
I'm looking for.
It is wild how he does that,but that is one of those things
where and it's that double-edgedsword thing where he has, like
his word will pierce you in away where you're like whoa, how
did you do that?
Is anyone else around me rightnow, did you?
Did anyone else like, see that?
Like what just happened?

(53:13):
And so I think in those makingthose decisions, yeah, pray
about it, go to his word andthen rest in the decision that
you make, rest in it and cause,cause.
Satan wants you to go back andforth, back and forth, back and
forth, back and forth, and andultimately be freaked out about
your decision, just make adecision and then just do it and
then deal with the consequenceswhen it happens, whereas Jesus
is like no, come to me, talk tome about it, be my word, learn

(53:34):
who I am, and then you'll startto decipher what's more from
Jesus and what's more from theworld.
You'll start to be able to tellwhat is coming from the word
and what is coming from theworld.
So the coolest thing is, whenyou start to decipher between
those two, your decisions willbecome more easy, because you'll
start understanding no, I thinkthis is from God, and then rest
in that and submit it to him,and he already has it planned

(53:55):
out anyways, you know.
So it's easier said than done.
It's easier said than done.

That's really beautiful.
Yeah, I want to talk about alittle bit about like more fear,
because you wrote it.
You wrote a great piece thatwas in your blog, which is super
cool, thanks, and I can justtell that you just you write all
that stuff right oh yeah, okay,it's not.

I have so much stuff written, but I I got to a
point where I'm like I shouldprobably just put it somewhere
instead of just at my googledocs yeah, yeah, okay.

So tell the story about the boat and stepping out
on the boat and walking on water, right?
So tell that story.

Well, one of my favorite well, I have so many,
but one of my favorite storiesis when Peter is in the boat and
they see Jesus walking on waterand they're like everyone's
freaked out Cause they're like,okay, is he, is Jesus walking in

(54:49):
water?
Is he walking?
And it was like the water, thewaves were coming.
I mean, you'd be freaked out ifyou saw that.
And Jesus tells Peter to comeand he has his hand out and so
Peter steps out onto the waterand he goes to towards Jesus and
then his fear hits him ratherthan his faith and then he
starts the sink.
And that's one of my favoritestories because, first of all, I
just it.
Peter gets like a lot of rap.
I feel like in the Bible, likea lot of people are.
I was like, oh, okay, peter,like here we go again.

(55:10):
And it's so good, because I'mlike, no, he's so bold, like he,
he does act a little bit morebefore he thinks, which, like I
think we all can relate to.
But he's, he was so bold enoughto step out onto that water.
But the moment all the fears of,oh gosh, I'm walking on water
right now.
This isn't real.
How can this be happening?

(55:31):
How am I seeing a float?
All these things start to comeinto his mind and, instead of
having that faith and keepinghis eyes on Jesus and being like
I can come to you, jesus,because you are God, and if I'm
going to walk on water and youtell me I'm going to walk on
water, everything else got tohim the waves got to him, the
weather got to him.
The guys that are in the boatstill because they were too

(55:51):
afraid to step out of the boatare still in the water or, sorry
, are like he's on the water andthey're in the boat, so it's
like he's.
All the fears start to get himand he starts to sink.
And so I think that was one ofthe things that has always hit
me, because I'm like, gosh, heactually stepped out, though,
like he actually took a step offaith, and while, yes, people
sometimes are like, oh well, hewas so afraid and you can't be

(56:12):
like Peter, you can't be afraid,and blah, blah, blah, but he
had enough strength and faith tostep out of the boat, which all
the others can't say.
That you know, and it's just it.
You know, and it's just, it'sjust a good realization of like,
yeah, if we're not keeping oureyes fixed on Jesus, and if
we're not focusing on him, allthat fear will get to us and
we'll start to sink, you know.
So I don't remember what else Iwrote in there, though.

I think people are just so consumed with fear
right now there's just so muchfear that's
being fed and fear, fear sells,fear really sells.
And especially right now it'sjust like again with the whole
change of power thing.
It's like, oh no, you know, I'mso fearful for my life now,
even like, and it's.
And it's amazing how fear canjust consume you and then

(56:55):
prevent you from thinkinglogically you were doing going
to your job or like functioningand so I guess it's just kind of
like trying to help thosepeople that might be kind of
suffering from some of that.

Yeah, and I I would say so.
This is something I heard awhile ago which I agree with,
and I, like I don't know if it'sI disagree, but I just see a
different perspective.
They say that fear and faithcannot exist at the same time.
It's something in your braineither you're being more fearful
or you're being more faithful,but the one that they can't
coexist at the same time, it'ssomething in our brain.

(57:30):
I am not a science person, so Ido not know how it works, but
it's something that it can'texist at the exact same time.
One either is going to outweighthe other.
So the way that I see it,though, is like I do have a lot
of fears, like I would be lyingif I didn't say that I have a
lot of fears, but one thing I doknow is that my faith when I'm

(57:50):
fearful, my faith is the onething that's going to get me
through that.
So my faith, as long as itoutweighs the fear, I I think
they can go coexist at the sametime, but I know that my faith
is gonna is.
As long as I don't let thatfear hold me down from doing
things, then I think it's okaythat they can exist, because you
know fear is okay to have, it'sokay Like we're made up to.

(58:12):
You know, just like anxiety,like it's okay to have some
anxiety, like it's good, so wedon't like go into a storm, you
know, not afraid and stuff likethat, like it's good to have a
healthy amount of it, but like,even with fear, like I think
it's okay to have a healthyamount of it.
But the one thing that we haveto remember is Jesus does tell
us do not be afraid.
I forget how many times I mean,they say he says a ton in the
Bible, like even in the oldTestament, and do not be afraid,

(58:35):
do not be afraid, do not beafraid.
And that is the one thing thatI have to remember with things
in this life because it willhold us back from, I think, tons
of things.
There's so many things, likeeven this blog stuff, like I
feel so silly doing it becauseI'm just like it just seems so,
like I'm like nobody wants tocare what you're saying, but I'm
just like no, if God's, if Godis pursuing me to do this and

(58:57):
encouraging me to do it, I needto do it and not be afraid,
because what I am more afraid ofis God and not like in a
fearful way of like God is scaryand everything.
No, I it's like a reverent fearof him, like I want to.
It's like you don't want likesomebody you really love and
respect, like you don't want todisappoint them, you don't want
to go against what they say,because you love them and they
respect them.
But we are to fear God, but notfear things of this world,

(59:20):
because God controls it all.
You know, and we either believethat or we don't.
So that's where the whole fearand faith thing come into play.
So I don't know.
I love it Well I just think ofthis world too.
Right now.
I think it is a.
We're living in a very fearbased world and we could always
live like that, though, likeeverything we could always live

(59:41):
off of like what if this, whatif that?
And, to be quite frank, I Likeeverything we could always live
off of.
Like what if this, what if that?
And, to be quite frank, I havebeen a fearful and anxiety
ridden person most of my lifeand I like if I chose to live
off of that way, I wouldn't bedoing things like talking about
God or serving in our church andI wouldn't be praying for
people and I wouldn't be.
I wouldn't get to see thefruits of what I'm doing.
If I let the fear hold me backand I think that's where people

(01:00:02):
have to realize is like we canbe afraid of everything if we
want, but I'd rather be afraidof God in a reverent way, not in
a I'm so scared of you, god,like in a I want to do your will
, god, type of way.

Jason Wagner (01:00:12):
So I don't know no-transcript.

Anita Pilalis (01:00:33):
Like I will do it .
Like it's just like I.
He has lit a fire in me.

So you were really looking forward to today then.

Yes, but well, well, so I was scared, the fear
thing.
Okay, I was scared because I waslike, well you're, what if you
say something stupid?
What if people think you saidthis or maybe you say something
wrong, and it's just likehumanly fear.
But I also realized yesterday Iwas thinking about it and I was
at one of my bible studies atchurch and she said something
about our pride and how we'reeither gonna let like the
opinions of the world get in theway and like that comes back to

(01:01:01):
like a pride thing for ourself.
Are we worried about how we'reeither going to let like the
opinions of the world get in theway and like that comes back to
like a pride thing for ourself.
Are we worried about how we'regoing to look with the world and
all that stuff, or we're goingto do God's will and let God
lead us and guide us and things.
Instead of being so worriedabout what people are saying
about us, instead we should bemore worried about if we're
doing God's will and we'reactually following his plan for
our life.
So I was afraid of doing this,but I love talking about God.

(01:01:24):
But I kept thinking to myself.
I'm like, okay, how do I combatthis fear that I'm having about
talking about you in a waythat's being recorded where
other people are going to hearit, and I just kept thinking
that's coming from Satan too.
He's so good with his whispersCause he knows.
This is the one thing that,especially if you don't study
spiritual warfare, like youdon't realize, like it's not

(01:01:46):
necessarily Satan himself, it'shis army that he has.
I know it sounds woo woo, Iknow it, but he studies you, so
you'll notice, you'll start tonotice when you start realizing
things.
You're like wait a second.
Like it's like he studies yourinsecurities so well that he
knows exactly what to put inyour mind when you are about to
just step out in faith and to dosomething.

(01:02:07):
He will put all those exactinsecurities so for me.
My dad told me I was a mistakegrowing up.
He was like you weren't meantto be born.
He didn't want to come to mybirth.
He was already so far gone bythe time I was born.
He was a full-blown alcoholic,and so he just pretty much
didn't want me to exist.
So for so much of my life Ibelieved you don't belong to
this friend group, you don'tbelong to this town, you don't.

(01:02:29):
You're a good soccer player,but you don't belong on the team
you like.
So I had all these lies thatwere constantly going in and I
would, I still did the things,but I still had that back lie of
like I always felt like a fraud, like I didn't belong.
Which is kind of brings me totoday, where I was like, no,
anita, you like.
I still hear those things whereI'm like, no, you don't belong
talking about God because youdidn't grow up in a Christian

(01:02:50):
household and you are quite asinner, and like people can see
right through that, you know,and but those again, those are
the lies of the enemy, which isexactly what he wants.
So I think, replacing thosefears that we have with God's
truth and realizing, no, that'snot coming from God.
So when I want to come here andtalk about God, no, I need to
think about your conversationswith God.

(01:03:10):
You've been praying about this,about more opportunities to
talk about God, people hungeringand thirsting for the Lord and
being able to assist in that andshare what he's done with me.
I'm totally big on peoplesharing their testimonies and
sharing their stories and stufflike that, because it will help
other people, whether that's oneperson in another country or
whatever it might be, but if ithelps one person, that's one

(01:03:31):
more person for heaven.
You know what I mean.
So it's like, I think, when wedo have those fears and we're
getting so afraid, it's like wehave to combat it with no.
What would God say about this?
And how do we know what Godwould say about it?
We go to his word and then wealso go to like mentors in our
life and people who arediscipling us and people who are
, you know, far above us intheir spiritual journey and kind
of get affirmation from themthat hey, is this, is this

(01:03:53):
something I should be afraid of,or should or like, and then
they can help affirm likewhether that's from God or
whether that's like fromsomething else.
I don't know if that answerswhat we were talking about.

Yeah, it totally does.
I also want to ask you, becauseyou talk about the woo-woo
stuff a littlebit which isinteresting.
You acknowledge that Becausefor somebody that doesn't
believe, it's very easy for themto be like oh you're woo-woo.
But you shared an amazing memethe other day which was like
never thinking I was going to bethe crazy Jesus lady, and now

(01:04:25):
I'm totally the crazy Jesus lady.

I actually made that one.

Did you make that?
Yeah, I used the video.
That was amazing.

Well, it's funny because my sister sent it to me
and she's like she goes.
Haha, I just sent this one toyou.
I was like, yeah, I just madeit Like I use the lady,
obviously, and then I put thewords on it but yes, no.
So anyways, yeah, I'm that ladynow.

And you and you just live into it.

Yeah, well, now I'm just like because it's one
of those.
So I had a step grandma growingup that anytime we'd say, oh my
God, she'd be like God hasnothing to do with us.
And I was like, okay, lady likeyou are a crazy Jesus lady, and
then all of a sudden I'm like Ijust remember I was like
sitting there.
No, I'm like I'm that crazyJesus lady.
I'm that, that person that myfamily rolls their eyes at when

(01:05:08):
I start talking about God again,or I bring up like church, or I
bring up like I know peoplehave, I know people unfollow me,
and I know people have talkedabout me behind my back, about
like, okay, anita, like whateverCause, they just don't know it.
And that's also something thatI've had to.
I lean into it now because I'mlike at the point where, okay, I
know biblically it's biblicaltruth that people who don't know

(01:05:32):
God, their eyes are closed whenthey're conforming to the
patterns of this world.
Their eyes are closed, theirears are closed, they can't see,
but we are there to help themsee.
And so that's why I'm like no,like salvation is urgent, like
it is an urgent issue,especially right now.
And so now I'm at the pointwhere I'm like I'm no longer
afraid of the world, I'm nolonger afraid of what people are

(01:05:54):
saying behind my back yes, itcomes, it creeps up but I'm more
afraid of, like, there is thisbeautiful story, so I'm more
afraid of people not going toheaven.
So, like, honestly, there was abeautiful story of this guy
who's talking.
He's like you know, he's goingto heaven.
One guy's going to hell andthey cross each other's path and
they say, well, where are yougoing?
And he said, well, I'm going toheaven.
And then he realized he's goingto hell.
He's like, well, how did youget to heaven?

(01:06:14):
And he goes well, I believe inJesus and Jesus, blah, blah him.
If you knew about him.
And then he's like well, I wastoo afraid.
He said, you were too afraid totell me about heaven.
So now I'm going to hellbecause you were too afraid to
talk about it.
And then he's like imaginehaving that conversation with

(01:06:35):
somebody that you loved, thatyou loved, but you couldn't have
that conversation because youwere too afraid of what they
might say or you were afraid ofoffending them.
And with everyone is afraid ofoffending everybody nowadays
because you get canceled in liketwo seconds.
So it just got to the pointwhere I'm like, no, I can't
worry about the world anymore,like this is, this is so
temporary compared to eternity.

(01:06:56):
So for me, like there's a versethat it talks about how
beautiful are the feet of thosewho bring the good news?
And I'm like, no, we need toall bring the good news, like
now.
I'm like realizing like thetime for salvation is now, it's
an urgent issue and people needto get right.
Like people need to be, theireyes need to be open.
But it also said but how willthey not know if they don't hear

(01:07:17):
, and how, how are they to likeunderstand that if no one tells
them about it?
So someone has to.
And so that's where, like, myheart now is like oh yeah, I
guess I'm okay, I'll be in thecrazy Jesus lady.
That is the badge I will wearat this point.
I'm like, all right, I'll takeit and I will run with it,
because I'm like I'd rather bethat and live in truth than than

(01:07:37):
live in a false reality of,like, what people are living in
right now.

So it seems that there is a big wave of people
going back to faith.

Yeah, awesome.

I saw.
I saw it was a stat of likeBible sales are at all times.
And so what do you think thatis, and how does that kind of,
does that give you moreenthusiasm?

Oh yeah, I think there's definitely a revival in
the nation, especially amongcollege age students.
You can totally see that, whichis just amazing, because that's
what we need is the nextgeneration to come up and make
these big changes, especially inthe home.
I think that's really awesome.
What I hope for is discipleshipto happen in that.

(01:08:21):
So people like you guys rightnow you're like no, I want to
get back into my faith thatthere are people who come
alongside you and help you andaid in that.
So people like like you guysright now, like you're like no,
I want to get back into my faiththat there are people who come
alongside you and help you andaid in that.
Because it's so hard, like theChristian walk is not easy and I
think it's really hard.
And I think people assume thatonce you come to Christ, like
everything's gonna be great, andit's not.
Actually, life might actuallybecome more hard because you
have more of an enemy againstyou.

(01:08:42):
Because if you're not doinganything, if everything's so
great, sometimes what that meansis the enemy doesn't see you as
a threat, so he's not going tocome after you.
He's like no, you keep doingyour thing, you're good.
But if you're like influencingpeople and actually bringing
people to Christ.
He's going to come after youand he doesn't want more people
coming to Christ.
Whoa, yeah, so that, but whoayeah, wow, that's discerning

(01:09:05):
yeah that makes a lot of sense.
It does make a little bit ofsense like okay, so you're,
you're on, you play football.
You're like you know who's aweak, the weak player, who's a
good player.
You're gonna go after the goodplayer, you're not gonna go
after the weak player.
Yeah, yeah, why, right?
Waste your time, waste yourenergy?
No, right, yeah, it's gotbigger fish.

right, exactly, you put the target on the bigger
guys back.
Yeah, I had an interestingmoment that's happened, so we've
had.
We've had a lot of good thingshappen lately and then all of a
sudden, just recently, you know,I bought a.
So we're big in real estateright.
And so we do.
We rent out properties andstuff.
And this one building we bought, you know, last year started
out, you know plan was workingand then all of a sudden,

(01:09:44):
literally just like this lasttwo months is like we've got
three out of five people notpaying us rent.
Right.
And it's like I was thinkingabout this and I'm like, boy,
that's a, that's kind of a bigproblem.
And I'm like, okay, don't worry, it's just another you know
hurdle I'm going to have tofigure out.
But I was literally thinkingabout this this morning as I'm
texting these tenants to likehey, where's your rent?

(01:10:05):
I'm just like you know what.
I think that this is justanother challenge that God is
like literally putting in frontof me to figure out, and like
he's just challenging me, or oryou're.
You're potentially saying orit's, it's Satan trying to take
you down a little bit becauseyou're trying to influence a few
people to rediscover theirfaith.

It could be both.
And do you guys?
Are you familiar with the bookof Job in the Bible?

I've heard of it, but I don't know much yeah.

So the book of Job is tough.
He loses everything, like.
So essentially it starts withSatan and God having a
conversation and God was likehave you heard of my disciple
Job Like?
And he's like no, like have youheard of my disciple Job Like,
and he's like no, like itdoesn't have to be like that?
But he's like no, and he's like, oh well, like you can throw

(01:10:51):
anything at him and he's notgoing to leave me, type of thing
.
So essentially, god literallyhanded him over and said he said
you can do anything, but youcan't take his life.
And so Job goes through terriblethings in life and he was a
faithful servant of God's and hegoes through really hard things
in life and loses his wholefamily, loses his yeah, his
children, loses, I think it'slike all his livestock, like,
all this stuff, like it's.

(01:11:12):
It's a very sad book and yousee him go through this
wrestling back and forth withGod where he's trying to figure
out, like God, why are youallowing this to happen and all
this stuff?
That being said, it takessometimes, I think, in life God
does.
Let us go through trials andcircumstances that will help
ripen us towards the gospel andhe will help us in growing

(01:11:34):
closer to him, but also like ifeverything was so great all the
time, you wouldn't be going toGod.
You wouldn't, you don't needGod.
If everything's so great, youdon't need him at all.
But sometimes we have to gothrough trials and circumstances
in order to get us closer toGod.
And not only that, but again weknow we have an enemy, so he
will come on hard.
So nothing Satan can do in thisworld he can do without

(01:11:55):
permission from God.
So God is allowing thesecircumstances to happen, and
that is probably a testing ofyour faith.
But I think that is also a yeah, especially right now, because
you guys are like getting closerto Christ.
I think chances are more thingswill be harder than easier.

(01:12:16):
But now you have a place of restto go to and to find your
comfort and to either trust thatGod's going to get you through
it and he's going to figure outa way, or you're going to rely
on your own self.
You're either going to die toself or you're going to pick up
his cross, pick up your crossfor him.
So and that's what's the hardthing Cause it is true, guys, I

(01:12:37):
mean, like it is, it is veryscary, but it's also a huge
comfort in knowing, no, god'sgot my back.
Like while, while Satan has thereins right now, like in this,
like world, god ultimately holdsthose over everything.
So like we can either trustthat or we don't, but like we
know that this life isn't aneasy Christian walk.
I mean, if you look at all thedisciples, I mean they all died
really bad deaths, I think,except for John maybe.

(01:12:59):
I mean like they were martyred,like it was bad, but we know
that.
We know what our end goal is,which is heaven.
So it's like, yes, it's kind ofscary, you can get scared by
that, but also you can be justreally trusting in the fact that
god's going to get us throughit and it's not going to always
be like that, but that's justlike the the reality of this
world.
So I think your circumstancescould definitely be god's

(01:13:20):
allowing that to happen andmaybe he's testing your faith
and seeing where you're at.
But I also think Satan doesn'twant you to.
He would rather you start toflounder and go back to your old
way versus Jesus way.
So I think it's a test for sure.

That's really interesting.

Rachel Wagner (01:13:35):
Yeah, it's really interesting too, cause I feel
like that first week that we didgo back to church and a couple
of weeks after that, there werejust so many great things that
were kind of like flying at you,and I remember you having this
reflection of like, look at this, look at this, look at this,
like all this is happening, likeright after I went to church
and then I feel like January hit.
We had a really rough.
Rough January, like illnesswise.

(01:13:56):
There were just a lot ofchallenges that were being
thrown at us.
And now there's real estatechallenges and it's like well,
that's a really interestingreflection to have.

Well, I do think, yeah, it's one of those things
I think he wants to encourage us, but then he also the reality
of okay, you're encouraged, yourfaith is there.
Now we need to see if yourfaith is actually going to
flourish or if it's going tofalter and go back.

Well, that's like how I felt yesterday when I was
sharing.
It was just like, when it cameout of my mouth, I was just so
shocked by you know.
It was like it really wasn'tcoming from me.
Yeah, it was like it was comingfrom the Holy Spirit.
Yeah, just like I actually feelthis immense amount of comfort
in like this decision that is sodifferent from what I've always
thought and done before.
Um, that was just kind of likeovercoming the fear Cause the

(01:14:41):
night before I had been up forhours just fretting about it and
so stressed, and I'm just likeyou know what, at the end of the
day, I don't really think thatthis is how it would go.

And that's the whole resting.
Yeah, I mean we need to learnas a society, but also just
individually, to rest in God, torest in His promises, to rest
in His peace, and that's the onething I mean.
I tell myself, so I would sayI've you know, so I accepted.

Christ as a sophomore, which was I don't
even know how old are you as asophomore.
As a sophomore, we wereprobably 19 or 20.

Yeah, right, okay , so 19 or 20.
And then so that was 2010,probably 20, 2009, 2010.
So I I that's when I accept him.
But when I started actuallyliving my life out for him was
11 years ago and with that Istill struggle with resting in
God's promises and who he is.
But that's why it's soimportant that we read his word,

(01:15:36):
because sometimes it is hard toread his word, obviously, but
getting into a routine offinding time where you and God
can have that alone time andfocusing in on that and praying
to him and having uninter andhaving uninterrupted prayer
where not like kids arescreaming and all that stuff,
which is hard.
But that's why I wake up atfive in the morning, cause I'm
like I can't do it otherwise.
I literally can't, and it hasbeen so nourishing to my soul to

(01:15:58):
just like be able to have thatrest with him and just be like
God.
I'm so scared of this.
I'm.
This is happening.
This is happening.
Why is this happening?
Why are you allowing this tohappen?
And he can take that and that'swhat the best part is.
It's like he can hear us, Likehe knows our thoughts before we
say them, like he knows yourworries and your concerns with
that, but like resting in thedecision that you make and then

(01:16:19):
just letting it like be with him, and then if God brought, bring
something else up to you tolike go a different route, then
let that be.
But like for right now, justlike resting in that decision.
And I love how you said like hegave it's almost like he gave
you the words to speak, andthat's what's cool, is like
having the Holy Spirit doesintercede for us and it's just,
it's so incredible.
But it's one of those thingsthat's like you don't know it

(01:16:40):
until you experience it yourselfand it's like gosh.
That and it's like gosh.
That's what I just pray for somany people.

Can I ask you a little bit about, as you're
talking about the word and whatthe word says.
So I mentioned we have twochurch experiences and one of
the reflections that we hadafter we left because I don't
always see it when we're there,it's like in the afterwards when
we're talking about it and kindof dissecting what was shared I

(01:17:07):
realized that two bigdifferences between the two and,
in fairness, we haven't been tothe one.

We only, we've only been once.

So we need to continue to go a little bit more
and see how it goes.
But after that first service Ileft and we were just kind of
like an interesting distinctionis the one church that we're
going to kind of shares, ittalks about the verse and then
there's like interpretation thatkind of goes with it, but it
feels very like open-ended andhow you, how you take it and
what it means for you.
Versus this other service wewent to like I would argue, is

(01:17:32):
probably more biblically based.
There was a little bit lessinterpretation but stronger in
what it meant, if that makessense.
Like it was almost like it waslike telling you what the word
was and how to take it, versusthis other service was like well
, how do I like we left beinglike, well, how do you like you

(01:17:52):
could go either way with it?
So how do you know which is theright way?

So I with that.
I would say a pastor's job isto teach the word.
Okay, so he, a pastor's job isto teach the word.
But also for a lot of us, likea lot of people, it could be
their first time in church youneed more direction sometimes
and I think as a pastor I'm nota pastor but I'm saying like as
a pastor, I think his job, hisor her job, is to lead us in

(01:18:21):
where the Bible is taking us.
So I do think it needs a littlebit more distinction, like
obviously they're all going to.
I think most churches are, forthe most part, going to try to
be politically correct and notbeing like you have to be this
way or this way or whatever youknow unless I mean that could
become more cult-like.
If you're like saying you haveto do this or do that, but I
would say so this goes back tolike the choosing a good church

(01:18:44):
If you hear the word and theypreach and you can understand
what they're saying.
If there's confusion, I don'tknow if I would prefer to keep
going back to a church where I'mconfused at the end of it being
like well, how am I supposed totake that?
I think there needs to be moredistinction and some more
definitive stuff.
Now again, they can't be likevaccinate your kids, don't

(01:19:06):
vaccinate your kids.
They're not going to do that,because that's not.
That's also not Christian.
Like to be like you have to dothis way.
That's a dictatorship, like youknow, but like you should have
be be able to walk out of thatand feel pretty.
I mean, there's always going tobe room for questions, which is
good, because you should beable to do that, and then you
should be able to go back anddig into the word and figure
that out for yourself and howyou want to.

(01:19:26):
But I don't know if I wouldfeel like I'd want to keep going
back to church if I wasconfused each time after.

I appreciate that because I feel like I didn't
leave being like they weretelling me to do this or telling
me how to apply it.
It was just.
This is what it says.

And this is what he was saying, and that's what I
like.

Yeah, so that's, I appreciate that.

I like.
I like more direct stuff andlike because Sorry, the one that
we've only gone to.

One is that that's what you would appreciate more.
Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, okay, because I left knowing what the
message was.

So versus like yeah, so so like an example of
what the was, that in which Ithought it was to go to your
comment more strong, you couldalso say more extreme, and it
was.
You know people.
You should not dine with peoplethat are but it wasn't that.

It wasn't them telling us that we shouldn't
dine with people who aresexually immoral.

That's what it was immoral but it wasn't saying
that.

It was saying this is what.

Oh, I know what you're talking about.
Yeah, yeah, it was like thatwas a message.

Is that way.

Oh, I think so.
Yeah, I think that's what itwas, yeah.

Yeah, and so he was talking about the
conversation shouldn't do this,it was just.

This is what they say.
This is what they say Okay,yeah, okay, that's how I should
say it too yeah, yeah.

Cause it's different, Like cause, otherwise
you're like it is kind of cultLike if you're saying you should
not be dining with people.

And that's the way that I kind of I kind of took
it you know and see, and that'swhat I would say, even like okay
.

So you guys have tried two churches, try three,
try four, yeah, and I know itsounds like.
But so my church that we go to,I we are, our church is in
naperville.
We live in geneva, so it's agood 20 minute, 25 minute drive
and but it's because we aregoing to that church beforehand
but again, kind of going back tolike the I guess we kind of
diverged quite a bit, butbiblically based is number one,
from David and I, that's mostimportant.

(01:21:30):
Number two is kids ministry,because our kids are huge for us
.
So knowing it's a safe ministry, knowing that they're teaching
our kids the same things, andhaving a kid's ministry, I think
is super important, like to nothave to sit with your kids
during a service, because thatcan be super distracting.
And this is your time to beable to like hear a word from a
teacher who is a pastor,teaching you about God's word,

(01:21:52):
so the word.
So I would say, if you're not ahundred percent sold on either
of those two churches whileyou've given them a few shots,
maybe try another church and I,I personally like more of a
contemporary one.
That's not so like.
So you guys grew up in aCatholic church and I know that
works for some people.
I know it does Cause I've metmany Catholic people who are
very devout and I know theirrelationship with God.

(01:22:13):
That being said, that doesn'twork for me.
Like I've gone to Catholicchurches, it feels to,
everything, feels very like youknow, yes, and I I can't do it
because I don't work that wayand I don't like, I don't feel
closest to God there.
But I would say, like, try achurch where you're like.
For me and I I've told my sisterthis before in the past I was
like, eventually you're, you'llget to a point where your

(01:22:40):
relationship with God and howyou worship him is going to be
more important than how otherpeople do so, like, for example,
like if you're going to aCatholic church because that's
what you grew up in but itdoesn't work for you, eventually
you'll get to a point whereit's more important for you to
go to a place that's going towork best for you in your
relationship with God.
And for me that's like where Ican lift my hands and I'll
praise God and stop worryingabout the people around me and
having good worship to him andthen hearing a good word that is

(01:23:11):
biblically based, that is notlike saying I have to do this or
have to do that, but also likethat is God's word, and then
there should always be room forinterpretation, I think.
I think that's just likenatural you know to be a human
to be able to interpretsomething differently but like I
feel like you should leave aservice being like, okay, that's
what I heard, and if you'reconfused about it that's why
there's the pastor you can reachout to them and say I'm a
little confused on how you saidthis, you know, but I think a
lot of us are afraid to likedisrupt other people and like
bother them by like sending thememails or questions or stuff.

(01:23:32):
You know, but how are you goingto learn otherwise?

Yeah, so I don't know.
I appreciate the take on thechildren's ministry too, because
they're also like pretty theyboth offer that and it's both
there.
But size wise and communityfeel for the kids is very
different.
And then the other church thatwas a little more, I think,
vague in the messaging, has awonderful like children's
environment and community forthem.
And so that's hard because I Iwant them to have that and I see

(01:23:56):
the value of that for them andcertainly for us sitting in
service, not like yeah, totally.

I mean, it's hard.
It's the difference betweenmore of a large-scale church and
a small-scale church.

And contemporary versus more traditional Right.
You know 300 people thereversus 30.

Yeah, maybe 30.

Wow, that's a big difference.
Yeah, a huge difference, and Ithink there's pluses and minuses
to both, Because my church ispretty big and I love my church
I really do but sometimes Ithink about man.
It would be sweet to be in alittle bit smaller where you
feel like you're seen a littlebit more with the congregation
and you see them more and youknow them more and you can
invite them over for dinner more.
I do think there's such abeauty in smaller churches too.

(01:24:41):
I think there's a plus to both.
But also I think, that beingsaid, you know it takes like our
effort as church members toserve at church, to get involved
in groups, to also putourselves in those situations,
to grow in community with others, Because we need community.
Like we cannot do it, Like it'stoo hard, I think.

(01:25:01):
But again, that's where a lotof people's hurt comes from.
Is the church hurt from?
So it's a tough thing to figureout.

That's where a lot of the hurt comes from.

I think a lot of people have church hurt.
So I think, like like, wherepeople were hurt by people in
the church, like so, or theywere grew up seeing like.
For me, like you know thehypocrisy that I saw growing up,
like so I saw people going tochurch but then doing things
that they shouldn't do.
But at the time, again, Iwasn't a Christian, so I didn't
understand that we all sin andwe all have to repent and we all
make mistakes and that's whyJesus was the only perfect one.

(01:25:31):
But I think a lot of peoplehave bad visions of the church
and they're like well, I can dothis by myself, I don't need to
go to church, because you knowchurchgoers are, you know,
hypocrites or blah, blah, blahor whatever.
Or maybe they were hurt in thechurch by leaders who made a
mistake too, because they'realso not perfect people.
So it's like I think thatthere's just a lot of Right yeah

(01:25:52):
, I think that's why we steeredaway from the Catholic Church.

Oh, for sure, yeah, the whole pedophilia thing
, that was happening with theCatholic Church was just yeah,
and all the corruption, oh yeah,I mean, it was just such a
turnoff and I'm sure thathappens in the corruption and
there's a lot of money.
There's a lot of money.
There's a lot of money, yeah.

Here's the thing.
Here's kind of a weird thingand let me get your take on this
Is that when we first startedgoing to this large-scale church
, one of the first messages thatthey say is like hey, donation
goal.
Yeah, Like we actually have thisbig it's the announcement
section right, but it's likenobody wants to hear about $5

(01:26:33):
million that we want to raiseand we're short by like 400,000
or something like that, and I'mjust like wow there is a lot of
money that goes into this.
And then you start to you know,start thinking about some of
the corruption things that havebeen happening and how are we
supposed to like?
Take that a little bit.

So that's really tough.
I I used to struggle with that,but one time our pastor said to
us it is not for us to questionwhere the church puts its money
.
Like he said it like it's notfor us to question where the
church puts its money because,at the end of the day, if the
church decides to do somethingbad with your money, well, that
church and those people who arein charge of that money they're

(01:27:11):
going to have a big account topay for with God.
They're going to have to whenthey're talking to God, when
they die, are going to have toaccount for all of that, and so
that's not for us to worry about.
If they're doing something notright with the money, right, so
that was a good thing for me tobe like all right, I'm not going
to worry about that.
That was a good way for me tobe like no, that's not for me to

(01:27:34):
question, because what, what Iam to do is to be faithful with
the money that God has given me,and so that's all I can do.
I can't be in charge of whatthey're doing.
I can hope, with bestintentions, that they are doing
the right thing, but again, welive in a very sinful, corrupt
world and there are sheep, umwolf and sheep's clothing.
So we know that there are goingto be bad people everywhere.
That's because we again live ina very sinful world with a very
real enemy.
So for me that has brought mecomfort and just being like, no,

(01:27:58):
I can't question, cause.
I mean I, of course.
I mean I see those big numberstoo and I'm like I don't
understand, why are we cuttingpositions in our church when you
know we still have this muchmore money?
But then David also reminded me.
He's like Anita, they havebenefits that they have to pay
out to people.
They have this, they have that,they have, you know, their
monthly rent of this or you knowwhatever it is.

(01:28:18):
David was going through allthis stuff and I was like, yeah,
I guess I didn't really thinkabout all of that.
But then also, like if yourchurch, does your church do any
church planting, do they do?
You know they have to pay allthe staff members they don't
actually, you know, do, so thatthey're, they're depending on
the church's money.
But anyways, all that to say, Icould go down a whole route of
being like where's that moneygoing?

But I do know, and then there's projects that they
want to do too, which is like,oh, we want to build a church in
another country, or like, dothat type of?

And it costs a lot of money and it's.
It's easy for us to look at themoney and be like huh, but I do
know that God says that everygood and perfect gift that we
have is from God.
So the money that I have in mypocket is from God and I do.
David and I have our ownpersonal testimony of like when
we first started tithing, howGod responded.

(01:29:08):
And there's God tells us to onetime in the Bible he will tell
us to test him is with our money.
And he said test me with yourmoney and or test me with your
tithe, which is 10% of whatyou're making, and see how he
will open up the floodgates ofheaven for you.
Essentially.
So it's like when God tests youwith money.

(01:29:29):
I see him respond and Iactually like he did that for us
.
It was cool.
Last year David left his job andwe and David started with a new
company, a smaller company, andDavid just kept saying to me
and he and it was much less painfor us, so we were going to
have to like make cuts in whatwe're doing per month.
And then he also was like youknow, but in the long run he's

(01:29:50):
going to take the risk and he'sgoing to invest in the company
and but in the long run he'shoping to, it'll be best for our
family and he'll be making aprofit from it and all that
stuff.
But he kept praying on it andthen eventually David said I
think God's telling me I need togive my first paycheck, even
though we're freaked out aboutmoney and how are we going to
get it all at the end of theyear.
He's like I think God's tellingme to give the first paycheck

(01:30:11):
to the church in order for us totithe, in order for us to tithe
to be, and no, no, no.
So that didn't get to that partyet.

The whole thing, the whole first paycheck, the
whole first paycheck.

And I said to David you know, if God's telling
you to do that, I believeprobably you're supposed to.
And then I said to David youknow I'm wondering, like what
would our annual giving be atfor the church If you gave that
first paycheck?
What percentage would that beat?
And then David just like brokedown crying.
He goes I think it's 10%.
And so God, god, put on ourheart to give that first

(01:30:42):
paycheck, in knowing that thatif we gave that paycheck it
would lead us to 10% for ourfirst time tithing.
And so we also know that Godhonors, like us, in honoring him
with our money and trusting himwith our money, I do believe
God will honor you back.
I don't think it's going to belike a like for like thing, but
I know that God has a reason forit.
So, anyways, so we did that.

(01:31:04):
So I said that to David andDavid's like oh my gosh.
And then I said to David I'mlike I'm pretty sure there's a
Bible verse that talks aboutlike testing God with our money,
like to get to to to test himwith it.
And so then I went to it and Iwas like, oh my gosh, it's
talking about the tithe and Ijust realized that this is the
10% that God.
We think God wants us to give a10% to the church.
And David and I had always beengiving money because we we've

(01:31:25):
just always believed in givingto the church and, you know,
trusting God with where he'sgoing to take the church, but
we've never given 10% because wejust felt like, oh, I don't
know, like I'm a stay-at-homemom, now we were already tight
on money and like all this stuff, and so David gave.
So right before we were aboutto, david fasted for three days.
So he fasted, he prayed aboutit, we prayed about it together
as a couple.

(01:31:45):
We came to the conclusion thatwe really feel like God's
leading us's, like let's pray.
So we prayed about it, gave themoney, and then David
immediately opens up his bankaccount right after because he
got freaked out and he's like,oh my gosh, and this was after
his company had told him we arenot giving you your bonuses

(01:32:05):
because you are leaving thecompany.
He was trying to stay at hisother company long enough to get
the bonuses that he waspromised from the year before.
But they promise from the yearbefore, but they weren't going
to give it to him.
So they already had the bigdiscussion of you're not getting
these bonuses.
It was like 20, some, no, Iwant to say 30, something crazy
thousands of dollars that he waswalking away from of the
bonuses that he was supposed toget.

(01:32:26):
So, anyways, david had been sofreaked out about this $1 amount
, that for our family for this2024.
And he said I don't know howwe're going to do it.
So I guess david had beenpraying about that dollar amount
.
I didn't realize.
So, anyways, david opened upour bank account and all of a
sudden that exact dollar amountwas in our bank account, the
exact dollar amount that davidhad been praying for.
After we changed, we sent themoney to the church for that.

(01:32:49):
So god responded with thatexact dollar amount that david
had been crying.
And david just started cryingand I started crying and I was
like, oh wow, so that's not aresponse.
So again, that's testing withmoney and then I'm sorry, where
did that money?
word that was one of the bonusesthat they said they would they
said, they weren't they will notgive them.
They said it multiple times tohim that they won't give it to
him, and this was like weekslater.
So I don't know if it was amistake or not, but they it

(01:33:12):
ended up in our.
Then you want another thing.
Last year we just had a random,quite a big thousand dollar
check like come in our just inthe mail and we don't know where
it came from, but it just cameout of nowhere and then we
didn't realize that was actuallya dollar amount that we didn't,
that we needed to make itthrough that year.

(01:33:33):
Well, like, we have money savedup but we don't want to be
losing money every month, wewant to be gaining money.
So anyways, and then like, evenlike the another of that same
dollar amount came in throughtax returns which we didn't
realize we were getting for theexact dollar amount that David
was praying over.
So God responds and God doessome like really cool things.
So I've seen it with my ownpersonal testimony of how God,

(01:33:55):
when we trust him with our money, I mean he will open the
floodgates.
And that's why I couldn't stopcrying, cause I was like, oh my
gosh, you really do Like hewants.
He wants to blow our mind?
I really think he does, but wejust don't trust him with it
because we're so focused on thehere and now and he's like no, I
got you, I got you.
Are you going to trust me withit or not?
And I've heard so many otherpeople's testimonies of their
money and again, the money thingis it's stress, I mean, because

(01:34:18):
money is well.
Money goes back to pride toowith all of us.
But money also is that thing.
I mean it's security.
It makes us all feel secure and, like you know, but even when I
left my job, like I was likehow the heck am I going to leave
my job and walk away from this?
I don't know how our family'sgoing to have money to do this.
Like we canceled Amazonaccounts, we canceled all these
things and we're like, okay,we're going to do it.
Cause I felt on my heart Godplaced on my heart to stay at

(01:34:40):
home with the kids since theywere babies, and I felt like he
was trying to tell me tohomeschool when Grayson was like
a few months old.
But I was like, how the heck amI going watch Emma and you can
be her nanny?
And so then I was able to payfor that, like pay, help, pay,
like our monthly expenses withbeing her nanny.

(01:35:02):
And then like, when then yoursign stuff came through, where
even that I know it's a smallamount, but even just being able
to add like little things andstuff like that, like God has
responded in so many ways that Icould.
I can't even, I can't even namethem all.
But it's one of those thingswhere if we're so closed off to
it and we're so in fear, wecan't see him work out how he

(01:35:24):
can do it, you know, becausewe're just too afraid.

I had heard.
It reminds me of ourconversation with Dave and
Amanda, where they talked aboutbecause Dave was a big giver to
the church and he tried toeducate us early on.
Dave Lee, yeah, dave and Amandaare like instrumental in our
whole journey too Cool.

That's awesome.
You need that.

Yeah, yeah, and I remember them talking.
You know, dave was always likedude.
Actually I give a lot to thechurch.
He's like I don't tell anybodythat, but we do it and I don't
tell anybody that, but we do itand I asked him one time how
much and I was blown away atwhat he said, but he had these
same stories same stories ofwhat you are talking about.

The coincidences, the coincidences.

And so you know, as a first time listener of that
story, I was exactlycoincidence.
Yeah, right, yeah.
But when you hear more and moreof it it's very fascinating, it
is.

Yeah.
But even like I'm not a moneyperson at all, even for God to
place right in that moment, whenDavid's like I feel like God's
placing in my heart to give thisfirst paycheck, and for me to
think, oh, if we add that firstpaycheck to what we already give
, how much more does that takeus to 10%?
And the best part was last yearat the beginning David's like I
think we're going to maybestart having to cut back a

(01:36:47):
little bit on what we're givingto the church with the less
income that I'm going to makeper month.
And I said to David it's weirdbecause I actually feel like
God's telling us to give it more.
And so we had this littledisagreement for a second.
It wasn't even a disagreementbecause David's totally with me
and we're both on the same page.
But at the same time it waslike, oh, shoot, so now what do
we do?
But I don't think.

(01:37:09):
Obviously God doesn't want youto go into debt and not have
anything.
But also, if God's reallypressing on your heart to do
something and trust him with it,we trust him with our life, yet
we don't trust him with ourmoney.
Like it's like come on, but itis, it is.

(01:37:30):
It's a hard.
It's a hard thing.
I mean especially me.
I didn't grow up with a lot ofmoney, and neither did David, so
we are very much like we don'twant, but like man, we gotta let
god move too, you know so goingback to like the whole church
corruption thing, like if, let'sjust say, you were to find out
that the church that you go toand they've misused the funds
like, would you be upset aboutthat?

(01:37:51):
oh yeah, I mean I would be upset.

Yeah, yeah, so you can still so you can still like
, have like a justice thing oflike hey, that was totally wrong
.

And like, and they should probably not be in
their position if they weredoing something corrupt with
your money Absolutely 100%.
But I do believe also that Godwill bring all things to light.
So anything that's done indarkness, that is and that's
biblical.
Anything that's done indarkness, it will be brought to
light.
Like I believe that 100%.
And if people are misusing thefunds that they're getting,
again that sucks for you, dude,like you're going to be

(01:38:23):
accounting for that with God.
You're going to be standingbefore the Lord of this universe
and you're going to have toaccount for that.
I don't want that on my list.
David and I were going to apumpkin patch this past October
and had just turned three or no,he didn't just turn three, but
I'm like he could pass for twoand I was like man, we could
save 20 bucks if I just say, andI kept thinking, I was like

(01:38:46):
gosh man, I that would be greatto you know, just have him be
two and we could save 20 bucksand blah, blah.

And then I was like don't want it on my list.
I don't want to have to be likeJesus.
I really didn't want to losethat 20 bucks Like.
I don't want to have to accountfor that.
Well, as you were talking aboutthe giving to the church, I
took note of you weren't sayingyou were giving to the church,
right, you were trusting Godwith your money.
And that was like aninteresting distinction, because
I think when we're stillthinking about it, we're still

(01:39:09):
thinking about we're giving itto the church and the people who
are controlling it.

And when I listen, to you talk about it you're
trusting God with your money?

Yes, that's different.

Yes.

And that's the thing too, I mean I serve in our
food market at church and I seethe guests that, with the
benevolence money that they'regiving to the church, I see
who's actually receiving it and,yes, some people might be
misusing the system too.
That's not for me to care about,that's not that is.
That is not for me to questionor judge or wonder.

(01:39:41):
All it is is for me to serveGod and do what he has equipped
me to do and with where he'splaced me and I'm like no, so I
see at the food market, likebeing able to like provide for
them.
I mean, that's just one way thechurch can, you know, use the
money that we give them.
But at the same time, yeah,like, but that's also like maybe
why figuring out what churchworks for you best is because
you know, when you start to getto know the, the, the pastors,

(01:40:04):
the leaders at the church, andyou know you start trusting them
more, and yet there's probablygoing to be some bad people in
the bunch.
You know, like that's alsobiblical, like there's going to
be some, you know but I mean wecould say that with anything.

Yeah, you had kind of mentioned that.

I don't know if this was your first son, but you
felt this calling to dohomeschooling yep.

Can you talk about that a little bit and what
your experience has been like?

and well, I was like in public school my whole
life, like and I actually reallyenjoyed public school, like I
had no problem with it, like Iloved all my teachers.
I mean, obviously I knowschools have changed quite a bit
since then, but I like had no,I loved it.
It was great.
For some reason, when Graysonwas a baby, just I had this gut
feeling like you're supposed tohomeschool, which, like is not
my thing, cause I am not ateacher, I do not consider
myself a teacher, I do not liketeaching really as much I like I

(01:40:48):
would rather leave it to theprofessionals.
But I felt like God was tellingme you're going to homeschool.
So I was like, okay, I don'tknow how we're going to do it,
but we did.
So, yeah, how did you know?

this Like what?
What do you mean?
How did he tell you?

Yeah, no, so I've never heard an audible voice.
I would love to hear an audiblevoice.
I literally I'm like, I'm likewe could talk all day, like I
will be here.
I'll just sit here and talk toyou all day on my heart, where I
just feel like it's in my brain, I can't get it off.
And sometimes, when I feel likethings are repeated over and
over and over and over, I feellike it's from God, because I'm
like and if it's again, if it'snot contrary to God's word, if

(01:41:23):
it's, if it's in line, like ifthe values and things like that,
I believe it's from God.
Do you know what I mean?
Does that make more sense?

It just keeps coming up.
For you, was there also a fearthat was kind of feeding into it
too?
Oh, yeah, okay.

And like you're not equipped to teach your kids
A fear towards homeschool or afear away from it.

Right, actually, that's what it yeah.

All of it.
Okay, I was afraid tohomeschool.
Well, and everyone thinks likehomeschool kids are weird.
I'm like I'm going to have theweird kids, I guess, like the
crazy Jesus ladies.

She just owns every part of this.

It's amazing.
That's the thing I'm like.
I was afraid of that.
I was afraid of my kids aren'tgoing to be smart enough because
I'm not super smart, so how arethey going to be smart?
And I had this fear of whatpeople are going to say, which I
still get judgment from familymembers, friends and family
members.
Even if they say that or not, Ican feel the judgment.
Even my own mom sometimes.
I love her so much but likesometimes she'll be like, so

(01:42:15):
what about the social thing?

Like how are they going to?
I'm like they have brothers.

There's three of them.
They're like and we take themto church.
They play with the kids in theneighborhood.
There's plenty of social aspect.
There's also like co-ops thatyou can do, like that can help
teach with your kids.
Grayson's in a co-school rightnow where he goes to once a week
.
He does science, history,performing arts and art.
So I don't have to do like thefun science projects because
right now with the two littlekids it's just not feasible Like

(01:42:40):
I and I don't have thebandwidth to because my brain
just doesn't want to do morethan that, because it's just too
much stress right now.
So I'm like I so he goes tothat once a week, which has been
like a really awesome thing tocome alongside you.
But for me, being the mainteacher was like super important
to me.
But yeah, the fear thing.
I mean I still get the fearthing sometimes where I'm like
you know Grayson will stumble ona word.
I'm like oh gosh, he's notlearning, like he's not going to

(01:43:02):
know anything, like I freak outabout stuff like that.
So I think it's, I think it'sboth, but I I mean I wouldn't
trade continue on with that.
I go back and forth Cause I'mlike I have a hard time with him
, even being away from me, causeI just I want to be the main
teacher for him and I know it'slike people are probably maybe

(01:43:24):
think that's a controlling thingand maybe it is a little bit,
but also it's like I just knowwhat I want him want to be
instilled in him and I know he'splace and I know what he's
intaking and I see how theirbrains are sponges, so it's like
I I just felt, I just feel likethis is where I'm supposed to
be with the kids right now.

Where are they right now?

My mom, my sister's house and Grayson's at
his school, nice.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldsay it's.
It's been a really beautifulthing, like the homeschool thing
.
It's it's not the norm, butit's like it's hard and it's
beautiful.

So Do you think you'll continue that all the way
through their education or?

I think I will until it feels like maybe it
doesn't feel right anymore.
Like I, I definitely will untilat least high school, and then
maybe we can reevaluate.
And if and that's what I'vesaid the whole time I'm like if
I all of a sudden feel like I'mbeing led somewhere else and and
it's a right fit for him, causeI also think that there need to
be good Christian kids inschools to be the light in the
darkness.
Like I don't, I totally believethat.

(01:44:26):
Like there needs to beChristians in every field and
everywhere.
Right, but right now I'm like,no, I think, at this age of them
being so small, I'd rather makemy life a little harder in
order to instill good values inthem and lead them in the way
that I want them, which again isbiblical, to lead them in His

(01:44:46):
way.
Yeah, that's us right now.

That's awesome.

Dude, this has been an incredible conversation.

Well, I love talking about this stuff.
We can tell and we love it.
And it's very infectious.
Well, I love talking about thisstuff.
We can tell and we love it.

And it's very infectious.

It's very engaging, oh, it's tremendously
engaging.
Yeah, yeah.

I actually can't wait to listen to this one,
because I feel like you taughtus so much.

I hope so.
I mean, I feel like, well,that's the thing also I was kind
of worried about like man, am Igoing to say the right thing?
Am I going to say somethingwrong?
Then I'm like no, it's whatGod's already given me and where
he wants me to be the vesselfor what he's already shared
with me.
And that's kind of how I feelwith the writing stuff, where
I'm just like I just need to bea vessel at this point like
broken, messed up vessel for him.

(01:45:44):
And that's why I'm like I justlove what you guys are doing
right now, that you guys arebeing a power couple for your
family and for your girls,because it is going to set them
on a trajectory path of justlike good things.
Hopefully, you know, and like Ithink, more people need to be
more bold in doing that and notbe afraid to do it.

Everybody's so fearful.

Yeah, everybody wants to know everything right
now.
I feel like if we don't havethe right answers then it's not
fearful.
Yeah, I mean, everybody wants,yeah.
Yeah, everybody wants to knoweverything right now.
I feel like if we don't havethe right answers then it's not
right and all this stuff andit's like we're never going to
get that.
Like the I also just wrote oneon that where it's like we can't
know everything, like we aren'tdesigned to.

(01:46:14):
I mean Like it's just too muchfor us to bear.
But but he will bear ourburdens and our things that we
have going on in our life andthat's been like huge for me in
my life, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I struggle with that a lot.
I always want to know Same I'ma control freak.
Yeah, believe it or not?
Yeah, I feel that totally.

Yeah, that's been , that's been one of the hardest
things.
It's like just laying it all athis feet and just being like
okay, god, this is yours to take.
Even with the bagels and theBible thing that I did, I
literally was like I am notequipped to do this, like I
don't know what I'm going tospeak on.
My oven's broke, my fridge justbroke.
I'm like my computer broke.

You guys, my computer broke.
It was so annoying.

But what else happened?
David's car didn't start thatweek.
I'm like I am not in themindset to do this.
I cannot do this, I, this is sosilly blah, blah.
And then it just like I feltGod and every little bit of it,
and he equips us to do thosethings.
So when we lay the control athim, when we let him just take
the reins, gosh, it's so cool tosee him move my gosh, it's so
cool yeah it's the best so areyou gonna.

(01:47:16):
You have a leadership role inyour church I'm a care deacon at
our church and then so I I likea lot of what I do at our and I
like serve as like a groupleader, just like in small
groups, which I think like wouldbe really awesome for you guys
if you got into small groups,because it's so helpful to hear
other people's perspectives andto like, again, iron sharpens
iron that's in the Bible tooLike you sharpen one another, so

(01:47:37):
as one believer sharpens theother, like we need that person
to lean on.
So, yeah, I do that, and so it'sbasically a lot of.
It is like running our foodmarket at our church, so, which
is awesome because, again, godis close to the brokenhearted
and when you are in a placewhere you see people who are
really broken, who really needit, you see how God can move in
their lives and and and againit's the loving your neighbor

(01:47:59):
aspect and putting that intoaction.
That's one of my biggest things.
If you are about action, whichI feel like you guys are you
guys seem to be people who don'tjust talk, you do read James in
the Bible is just like allabout action, action, action,
action and just doing it Like wecan't just be hearers of the
word, but we need to be actualdoers of the word and just like
actually putting what he's givenus.

(01:48:21):
You know, and it's cool becausethen I always say, like I feel
like God, I thought he was usingme to like help other people.
You know from the story that Ihad, but I'm realizing, oh my
gosh, god, you are using, you'reworking in and through me, like
you're working in me from otherpeople too.
So it's cool to see how Goddoes that.
But yeah, and like in thechurch especially, which is it's

(01:48:42):
nice, I love it.

Anita, this has been awesome.
We're going on two hours.

Are we really?
Yeah, I mean you guys, it's notdone for real.
To be honest, two hours oftalking about God and Jesus,
it's been amazing.
That was a fast two hours.
That was a really fast twohours.

I'm not joking you.
I could literally go on forever.
Grace and my littlest will talkin the backseat of the car.
I'm like, oh my god, why is hegoing?
I'm like, oh, it's me.
I'm like, that's me in thebackseat.
I'm like, dang it.

That's so funny, yep amazing.

All right, so I guess we'll just do the wrap
should we pray again?
Well, we well, we could, we,could we at first.
How we do these is that we dolike to like talk about our
biggest takeaway from thisconversation, yeah and so Rachel
you can ask me to go first.

Yeah, because I'm still thinking.
I can't put it on the spot.
He always says that's alwaysyeah, and then we'll come to you
too.

Okay, but your biggest takeaway from this
conversation with anita?

biggest takeaway.
There were a lot, and I feellike it like kind of sums up
under like like surrendering andlike I'm thinking about like
the praying thing and knowingthat that's your conversation,
like just with god and to likekind of just like ignore the
noise around you and the earth.
And I'm also thinking aboutthat.
And when I was talking aboutyou know how I just felt like

(01:50:01):
all of a sudden something wasbeing spoken through me and I
wasn't prepared for that.
So like I think overall, justhearing you give multiple
examples of just like trust andfaith and surrendering brings
you a lot of peace too.
You know like it's reallypowerful.
I don't know if that's a realspecific takeaway, but that's
how I feel this wholeconversation was is.

(01:50:22):
I felt that undertone the wholetime and it made a lot of sense
to me and it really spoke to me.

Well, it's the peace that surpasses all
understanding.
It's one of those things thatyou just don't understand it
until you experience it and thenyou realize, like man, this is
the piece he's talking about,because everything else can be
chaotic, but it's the piece thathe can give us by surrendering
everything we have to him.
And that's like a continualprocess, every single day,

(01:50:49):
surrendering to him every singleday.
And that's like the one thing Iget on my knees every single
morning and I say God, today isyour day, whatever you want to
do with it.
And I'm not even just sayingthat, just like that's literally
words that come out of my mouth.
I'm like this is your day.
I don't know how you want touse me, but use me however you
want to.
And just like it is the fullthing of surrender but it is an
everyday battle.

I'm sitting here thinking like, why do I have
days where I feel that peace andwhy do I have days where it's
like a constant struggle?
And there was a period of timeearlier in the year I had shared
where I was kind of prayingevery day, and I really needed
it and I felt just such aimmense peace going through this
process and I've, I've, I'vekind of fallen off my routine.

I think the beginning of pregnancy threw me
off my routine and everything,disruptions and kids, yeah, and.

I'm like gosh.
I have days where like I'mreally good and I'm really on it
, and then I have days where I'mlike I can't like hear myself
totally think or feel the peace,and I'm frustrated.
And so it's, it's finding thatthat time to yourself.
Like you said, you wake up at5am and make sure you have that
time.

Yeah, get into, because if we try and just let
the time come about, it's nevergoing to happen, and especially
if we have an enemy who's goingto use our children as
disruptions and other things.
And not that they are all thetime, but I'm just saying it
happens.
Yeah, you've got to make thetime, just like for the working
out stuff and all this stuff.
We have to make the time.
It's never just going to be inour lap, you know Right, but

(01:52:12):
when we seek him like there's somany verses that talk about
when we seek him, gosh, we willfind him.
We will find him and he willcome to you.
So it's like that's what I haveto remind myself of in the
chaos, the chaos of like theworld.

Yeah, yeah, appreciate that.

The chaos of the world is really kind of what
stuck out the most to me andreally just how prevalent Satan
is and the evilness prevalent.
Satan is and the evilness, andwhen you said that he controls
the world, I thought it was aninteresting comment.

And yeah, God gave him rain to essentially run
this world.

And and and I just I just see it so much In my
opinion.
I see so much manipulationhappening.
It's like right in front of myface and then when I see it from
the other side, it's like theperson that is saying it
sometimes doesn't see itthemselves and I want to say to
them sometimes it's like boy,you're being manipulated.
Like you're in the matrix Likeyou have to step out of that.

(01:53:13):
You have to find a way out ofthat.
Like you have to step out ofthat and you have to find a way
out of that.
And I guess the way I kind ofenvision this is that it's you
know, there's bits of Satan thatare inside of that and there's
probably bits of it that arealso pulling me into thinking
that, you know, maybe I'mactually the one manipulated you
know what I mean.
Totally, and so I think there'sa lot of work to be done on that

(01:53:36):
front, and that was a big piece.
That was a big piece that Iconnected with here.
There were plenty of otherthings that we talked about,
which.

I can't wait.

Literally.
I can't wait to go back andlisten to everything that you
said.

I'm worried about what I said.

Now I think about , but it's fine, yeah, no I
think I want to piggyback off ofthat too, because I think we
talk about so often like theevil that we're saying you know,
but I don't think we have eversaid it's satan, it's he's
responsible for what ishappening and controlling the
earth, like that was.
That was like.
We talk about it all the time,and we have for several years,

(01:54:10):
about all the evil.
There's all this evileverywhere, and I think that was
part of what kind of pushed usto to finding god again, but we
didn't put like a spirit orperson I don't even know how to
say it.
That's his best work, though itreally is.

It is his best tactic to make you believe that
it's not of him or to put yourblame on God.
Like God, how could you allowthis evil?
But, like, people also don'tunderstand, this is the thing
that gets me, and I get itbecause I I, I mean, I had a
heck of a childhood and I wonderGod, why did you allow that to
happen to me?
Now, looking back, I'm likegosh, you were there, you

(01:54:42):
actually were with me through itall.
I just didn't acknowledge you.
And also not only that, butlike, like, if we didn't have
free will and if we didn't havefree reign to do things that we
are doing, we just be like,little, like doing.
Imagine somebody came into your, you brought someone into your
home and you're like you need tolove me, you have to love me,
you have to blah, blah, blah,you have to do this.

(01:55:02):
You'd be like whoa, this isweird.
If someone's forcing you tolove them, you don't want to
love them.
That's just weird.
And that's what's so cool aboutGod is he gives us the free
will to do that.
And so people also don'tunderstand what.
With free will, there comes evil.
With that, there comes pride,there's ego, there's all these
horrible things that drive us todoing not great things, and

(01:55:23):
that's where all this corruptioncomes in.
But, yes, it started with onething and that's Satan and
that's where the fall of manbecame and all that stuff.
So it's like it's really, it iscrazy when your eyes are open
to it, because you're like, ohgosh, like it's literally
everywhere.
And it's hard because it's acontinual battle where you're

(01:55:43):
like man, god, how much more amI going to have to listen to
like these lies or deal withthis or whatever it might be?
But like that's when you justhave to keep going back to God.
I always say to myself and thisis when I'm like having a really
hard time I just continuallysay to myself less of the world,
more of your word, less of theworld, more of your word.
Like I just need to focus in onGod, because if our eyes are
fixated on God, oh God, I thinkhe's going to move like and just

(01:56:05):
, and he can move mountains, hecan do those things, but it's we
, that's the.
The enemy would rather keep usdistracted with the chaos of
everything going on so that we,we were not doing like God's
will and we're not moving thingsforward.
Yeah, I would say I can giveyou a few book recommendations
that were like you can evenlisten to them on audio book
that you'd be really interestedin hearing some spiritual
warfare stuff, cause it's it'sdefinitely alive and that's

(01:56:27):
actually a Bible.
It's a verse two where it saysthe enemy he prowls around like
a roaring lion looking forsomeone to devour.

He's constantly looking to devour people.
Yeah, I would.
I would take those bookrecommendations.

Yeah, I mean they're really interesting and I
mean again, I know it sounds alittle strange, but I mean it's
one of those things when youreyes are open to it, you're like
no, it's very real.
And then when you start to seesome of the corruption in our
world, you're like okay.
And then you start to thinkabout the end times and then you
go down a big spiral.
So yeah, if you want to go tothat spiral, we can talk about
it another time.

I listened to the Mel Gibson and Joe Rogan podcast
.

And.

Mel Gibson is he's doing a movie.

It's on spiritual warfare, oh okay Cool, I didn't
know that.

Yeah, one of his upcoming ones is going to be the
good versus evil and howthey're duking it out, and so
I'm interested to see, like, howthat all plays out, because he
did the passion of the Christ,in which we watched.

Yeah, we watched not long ago.
Yeah.

Learned a lot.

Yeah, I had so many questions coming out of
that, we were texting Dave andAmanda so much I learned a lot.

Explain this to me.
Explain this to me.
It's so good that you guys havethat, though.

Seriously, yeah, they really have been so
instrumental.

You always need somebody one step ahead of you
with a spiritual journey so youcan actually go to, for that
Discipleship is something that Ijust think needs to be done way
more in our society.

I've never heard of this, this discipleship.
Obviously, we know Jesus andhis disciples, but I've never
heard of discipleship.
Go and make disciples out inthe nations.
Yeah, that was a new thing forme.

So we are all disciples of Jesus, like we are
essentially followers of Jesusand then we will go and disciple
other people to be followers ofJesus.
That's why I always think ofthe kids.
I'm like they're my little, I'mmaking little disciples, like I
want them to go out into theworld and it is beautiful when
you see your kids do that.
But it is true, yeah, it'sdiscipleship and it's letting
yourself be mentored by someoneelse too who can help you,
because it's too hard andthere's too many things.

(01:58:20):
I mean literally.
That's the one thing that Ithink is so cool about God is
he's so infinite that you canjust learn and learn and learn
and learn and still be yearningfor more.
It's like, how can I not knoweverything about you?
And every single day I dig intoyour word, I'm trying to find

(01:58:42):
out more and there's still somuch more.
He's infinite, he's.
It's just so cool.
That's why I'm excited for youguys, because, like, if, if the
fire is burning in your heartsto know more, like, just just
keep.
There's also violators.
This is one of my favorite ones.
It's um fan into flame the giftof god which is on you and you
through the lane of my heart orwhich is in you, whatever you
guys put the point of it.
But it talks about like, like I, I like the image of like
fanning it, like the actual,like fanning a flame to get it
bigger, like you need toactually do the work, like let

(01:59:05):
him, you know, make that fireburn inside you more because,
like I mean, you guys could dohuge things for so many people.
So I think that's awesome.

You could too thanks, with a little chaos in
my home, but yeah, no, I'mtrying.
Yeah, I don't know I'm trying.

That's all I can do.
What was your biggest takeawayhere?

oh man, biggest takeaway actually I want to know
, like from what you hadcommented on, what was, what was
something that you thought wasactually a good piece that you
added here, because a lot ofpeople they like to say, oh,
they kind of comment on whatwe're doing here, but actually I
want to know what was your biglearning from God, obviously in
His Word.

I'm constantly listening to sermons, listening
to other preachers, listening topodcasts.
I'm constantly listening toother things about God and
learning about Him, because Ijust can't stop wanting to learn

(02:00:07):
.
But it really did spark me thatyou guys also didn't really
think about Satan or the enemy,because it's just so.
So that actually really openedan eye to me that, oh my gosh,
that is a real thing that peopledon't know about as much.
Because in my mind I listenedto that stuff so often and
Because I don't, I, I, I didn'tbelieve that he exists.

(02:00:30):
Yes, and that's it's like yousay it is.
It's like this, this thing,that's just the evil part.

But you know, but I didn't necessarily believe
that he existed because I knewwell God exists.
Jesus exists and that the otherside is just like blah yeah.

Do you guys know who Jonathan Pakuda is?
Pastor JP Mm-mm.
His stuff is really awesome.
I'll send you.
I can send you guys a fewthings on Instagram or something
and or text or whatever, andbut he's like big, he just wrote
a book called your story has avillain and it just talks all
about spiritual warfare and likeit's.
I haven't um, I started it butI am very short, like very few

(02:01:06):
pages in.
But I think that could even bea good one for you guys, because
, anyways, that was, I think,one of my biggest takeaways,
because I'm like you know, Ihear it and I I'm in it so much
and I I'm studying it and I'mtrying to learn more.
So it's like when sometimes youknow how that is, it's like
when you're the person in it,you just assume everybody else
is at that same spot and it'slike, oh no, that really is a

(02:01:27):
thing that people don't knowabout as much, because, again,
it's like he it's his biggestweapon.
No, I'm not real, it's not real,it's not real.
Yeah, that was reallyinteresting.
Your car just broke down.
I've never heard that.
Yeah, so I'm not sayingeverything comes from him, but
yeah it's.
I mean, it's pretty like evennow, like, um, this morning, my
computer is old.

(02:01:47):
I will say that my firstcomputer, the computer that
wasn't old, broke right beforethe bagels and the bible thing.
And and then my computer.
This morning I went to open itup to write a blog post and my,
it won't work, it will not work.
The charger won't work, nothing.
And I'm like now, granted thatone is a little older, I haven't
used it as much, but I'm likethat's two computers I've just
broke in a month after I justopened, or I just like started a

(02:02:07):
blog of actually taking mywriting instead of leaving it in
the computer, actually takingit to where people can read it,
and I'm like that that feelslike spiritual warfare your oven
breaking the week before youhave to use your oven for an
event to bring more women, inwhich I actually was a fruitful
conversation with other women,where other people want to come
again.
That that's spiritual warfare.

(02:02:29):
But instead of just like againit's a coincidence.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I would say that opened my eyes to
being like oh no, okay, yeah.
So, yeah, I would say thatopened my eyes to being like, oh
no, okay, you need to.
Other people don't know that asmuch too.
So, yeah, a lot of things,let's be honest open my eye Like
it was a very good conversation.
I love, I love this.

Okay, so how, if somebody wants to sign up for
your blog, how do they do that?

Overflow of the heartcom that just kind of came
again.
It's a Bible verse, but out ofthe overflow of our heart, the
mouth speaks and so I wasthinking, no, that is literally
what's happening to me, it'sjust the overflow of my heart.
So, overflow of the heartcom,and you can just subscribe on
there.
I think there's a subscribebutton and yeah, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, I get the emails, yeah, yeah.

Cool, I enjoy doing it.

It's fun, but I'm more so like when is too much
too much, and so I'm just tryingto figure it out.

It looked like you had a pretty big turnout for
your bible and bagels yeah andit was cool because none of the
women were like rachel, youshould come next time if you can
.
At the time a lot, but like itwas cool because I actually
don't know how far geneva andireland nights are, but I'm like
it you just drive from therewhat?
Yes, what'd you say?

did you just drive from there.
What, yes, what'd?

you say Did you just drive from?

there, I went to Lombard first.

So that was only 30 minutes.
Yeah, you're like um, excuse me, we need to get your brain
checked describe everything wejust talked about.
But it was cool Cause none ofthe women were like it's not
like.
Any of them were like, oh, allthese women came like two girls
that I had in my small groupyears ago, like 10 years ago,
like we were in the same likeyoung married group and they

(02:03:59):
came and I hadn't talked to themin a super long time.
Another girl from college, um,who was a few years younger than
us.
She came I hadn't talked to hersince college Like another.
Another girl was a neighborhoodgirl who played her.
Her son played soccer with myboys.
So it's like it was so cool andshe came by herself too.
I was like I'm so proud of allthese women who are taking a
step and are hungry andthirsting for more of God and

(02:04:21):
more fellowship with other womento grow in that and then to go
out into the world and do that.
So it was super cool, it was a.
It was a.
Really it was a great turnout,cause I actually thought only
sister-in-law, but no, we gotmore than that.

So that's amazing, that's amazing.
You started something, yeah.

It was really cool and that's, that's the
funny thing I'm like.
So how can I, how can I do mylove of bread and bagels and and
God, how?

do?
I type this in.

I thought that was really cool, so it was just
it was fun to make it cometogether, but I'm just like all
I keep thinking to myself.
Little area of influence that Ihave right now being at home
with my kids where it's stillfeasible, but I'm actually
making an impact for Jesus andletting him work and so yeah,
just kind of thinking outsidethe box, right Servant mentality

(02:05:06):
yeah totally Just figuring itall out every single day, but
also just trusting and wherehe's placing me and then going
with the rest.
But again it's the whole actionpiece, like being a doer and
actually doing it, versus justsaying I'm going to do it.
So that's been big for me, yeah, yeah.

Oh, you've proven that, even just with your DIY
stuff that you have on yourInstagram and like all that
stuff.
I was actually watching one ofyour clips this morning and I
was like she took a closet andthen she made it into like a
really cool bar shelf.

And it's literally been like my best DIY,
because I'm like I use thatevery single day.
I stuff the kids toys in thereat the bottom part.
It's so wide, it's so big, butit's been my like favorite thing
to have done in the house.
I'm like because I'm like noone else is going to do it and
I'm like, and I love David, buthe is not a handy somebody's got
to do this.
And I'm like, all right, we'rejust going to figure this out as

(02:05:55):
we go.

Do you do those reels yourself too, Of like if
you just have your backgroundand then you put the text on
there too?

Yeah.

You do those, yeah , yeah.

I've always loved creative stuff, so I think that
all kind of ties in together.
Like I, I've loved like DIY,figuring it all out myself,
artsy.
But I guess I am more artsy,Probably I get, I lean more into
the artsy side of stuff.
So I'm like sometimes I feellike again like a fraud, where
I'm like, Anita, what are youdoing?

You like, you know , why are you trying to like put
this?
I'm like I love doing thatstuff, so I'm like why wouldn't
I?
Yeah?
So I'm like, whya-l-i-s Awesome, yeah, sweet, yeah, real
original.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on.

Thank you guys.

Thanks for sharing the word.

I'm so glad that we could do this.

Can we end with a prayer?

Yes, do you want me to pray?

Yes, of course.

The next time it'll be you praying yeah, okay,
jesus, thank you so much forthis fruitful conversation.
God, thank you so much forRachel and Jason and doing what
they're doing, god, and beingbold and sharing who you are,
god, and exploring that.
God, I thank you for theconversation that we were able
to have.
I thank you for the just foreverything that you do, god.

(02:07:10):
I pray that this conversationplants seeds, god.
Sometimes it's hard to justthink of ourselves as being seed
planters, god, but I pray thatwe can just continue to plant
seeds in other people's lives,god, that somebody else will
water it and God, you will makeit grow.
I just pray that people, ifthey're questioning who you are,
god, in this moment, if theyare wondering more about you,
god, would you just stir intheir hearts, god, would you do

(02:07:31):
what you need to do in order fortheir eyes to be open and their
ears to be open, god?
We thank you so much for thistime that we've gotten together,
god, and I pray that blesses,even if it's just one person,
god.
I pray that it blesses thatperson, god, and that they will
pursue you.
And we know that, lord, when weseek you with all our heart,
all our soul, all our mind andall our strength, god, that you
are there and I pray that whenthey draw near to you, god, that

(02:07:53):
you will draw near to them.
We thank you, lord, we praiseyou and I just pray that Jason
and Rachel's podcast, that it'sblessed, god and their family,
god, and would you make justmove mountains for them, god,
and everything that's going onin their life.
We love you and we praise youIn Jesus' name.
We pray Amen.

Amen, all right, god, you're awesome.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, thank you all for
listening.
Please share the show.

Definitely so many great nuggets out of this
one, anita.
Thank you, we're very well,we'll have to have you come back
on.

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have you come back on too,
because you can go on and onfor more and we'll have more
questions, I guarantee you.

So, yeah for david, continue in our journey.
Oh, that's awesome, you guysall right, guys.

Thanks for listening.
We'll catch you on the next one.

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