April 3, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, we draw an analogy between encountering a '404 Page Not Found' error on the web and hitting a plateau or decline in one's training plan, particularly for runners over 40. We discuss the changes in physiology and life circumstances that necessitate a new training approach, including changes in hormonal levels, stress management, and adjustments in workouts to reflect current fitness capabilities. We emphasize the importance of accepting these changes not as failures but as opportunities to redirect training strategies. The episode also highlights the mental shift from focusing on becoming thin to becoming strong, the need for proper nutrition, recovery, and addressing the stories we tell ourselves about our abilities and future potential. Encourage listeners to identify the 'broken links' in their training and find new paths forward.
01:44 The Frustration of Broken Links and Training Plans
02:32 Understanding the 404 Moment in Training
05:48 Adapting to Physiological and Life Changes
10:09 The Importance of Acceptance and Adaptation
15:42 Case Study: Overcoming Training Plateaus
20:44 The Role of Plateaus in Training
25:19 Training with the Right Mentality
26:04 The Importance of Recovery
27:02 Balancing Intensity and Recovery
29:27 Shifting Focus: From Thin to Strong
36:50 The Power of Stories We Tell Ourselves
37:28 Embracing New Training Methods
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
You know when you click on a link and you get that
(00:01):
little message 404 page notfound, it's not your fault.
The page didn't vanish becauseyou did something wrong.
It's just that link doesn't gowhere it used to and trying to
refresh it over and over.
that doesn't fix anythingeither.
It's like our training after 40things don't work the same way
that they used to.
Your body's changing and yourtraining needs to also.
(00:24):
Just like the webpage, thesolution is not to double down
on what used to work.
It's to reroute to create a newpath forward, one that matches
where you are now and where youwant to go.
And today we're talking aboutthat moment.
The moment when your training,your mindset, maybe even your
identity, hit a 404, and how tostop refreshing the old page and
(00:45):
start writing a brand new one.
So stay tuned.
(01:12):
What's up runners?
Welcome to episode 404, page notfound what to do when your
training plan stops working.
Kevin (01:19):
I know the answer to page not found.
I do this at work all the time.
You just go up to the top of thepage.
You re-highlight the website.
Yes.
And you hit enter again.
And sometimes you hit enter likeextra hard,
Angie (01:30):
why wouldn't you just hit the refresh button?
The little like curly Q arrow.
Kevin (01:33):
Sometimes you can try the curly Q arrow, but sometimes you
just, you really wanna make surethat you've typed it in and then
firmly press the enter button.
To let the computer know who'sboss.
Angie (01:41):
Yeah.
That works for you.
yeah.
Kevin (01:43):
It's, that's a guarantee.
Angie (01:44):
So today when we were thinking, when I was thinking
about, okay, what are we gonnatalk about on episode 4 0 4?
This.
Analogy popped into my head ofthat super annoying 4 0 4 page,
right?
Like when you hit a 4 0 4 page,that page I don't know about you
guys, but I know I get annoyedwith it.
what the heck?
Especially if it's on my websiteand I don't know that it's
there, and I'm like, wait, whathappened to this link?
(02:06):
Clearly this got changed and Ididn't.
Fix this link.
So when it's a broken link on myown website, that's a little
frustrating to say the least.
But it is one of those thingsthat can be really annoying.
And the same thing happens inour training when we get to a
point in our training.
Where things just don't work theway that they used to.
That link is not working.
(02:28):
It seems broken.
AKA, your body's not working thesame way it used to.
A lot of people over 40,especially women, when we're
going through perimenopause andafter menopause, when our
hormones are different, we feel.
Like our body's broken a lot oftimes and that is not necessary.
That is not the case for sure.
Your body's definitely notbroken.
It's just been rerouted to adifferent place.
Kevin (02:49):
And you have to find where that place is.
It's funny that you mentionedyour own website.
It's a site that you're veryfamiliar with.
Yeah.
As is so many people's trainingplans.
They know the way that they'vebeen training.
They know oh I've been a littleinconsistent.
My training will be off.
But if I just go back to thismethod has worked for me so many
years.
This is probably, sometimes youget newer runners later in life,
but we're talking about ifyou've been running for a while,
(03:11):
so many people are dedicated tothat plan.
They're like, oh, I know if youjust give me 12 weeks before a
marathon, I can lock in.
If you gimme a few months beforehalf marathon, I lock in.
This is my training plan.
It always leads to good successand suddenly.
It doesn't lead to the samesuccess.
That's where the frustrationcomes, because you know the
plan, it's worked for you foryears, and suddenly you're
(03:34):
exhausted and you're runningslower, but feeling even more
tired.
It's a really rough combo.
Angie (03:40):
Yeah, and I think that can happen physically, and a lot
of people also see it happeningmentally.
Like they used to never have aproblem with consistency.
They'd go out on their run,they'd look forward to their
run, they enjoyed their run, andall of a sudden they.
Just don't feel like going andthey feel like obviously much
more tired and just lackingmotivation and that can relate
(04:04):
to the runs not feeling good.
When runs aren't feeling good,you're not gonna look forward to
them as much.
Of course, but there's just thisdifferent way that you even feel
towards running as well.
Kevin (04:13):
Yeah, a hundred percent agree with that one.
After my last race, there wasthe time that I needed to take
off physically, but then it was.
Difficult to get going again,there were some sickness in
there, but just mentally it wastough to be able to be like,
yeah, I'm gonna get fired backup and I'm gonna go off on some
training runs and get myselfgoing again.
'cause you always know going,getting going again is harder
than maintaining.
(04:33):
Once you're going it.
Feels fine for the most part,but that starting back up again
is always tricky to get themomentum going, especially if it
feels like it's not giving youthe return that you are used to
getting out of it.
Yeah.
Angie (04:47):
Yeah.
I think that's a big part of ittoo, is not getting that same
benefit, the same return.
Like you said, you're notgetting the same feelings and
that.
Not the physical feelings thatare the same.
The mental release that a lot ofpeople look for in running, that
changes because when runs arefeeling harder, you're just
putting more stress on yourbody.
And it turns out that a lot ofrunners end up feeling just more
(05:09):
depleted and more exhaustedafter their runs, and that's
gonna make it hard to staymotivated and consistent.
Kevin (05:14):
If you're frustrated with the run, you're not, it doesn't.
Feel good on the run and you'reso focused on what feels
uncomfortable and you're tired,you're never going into that
flow state where you actuallyever get close to feeling that
runner's high.
Yeah.
Like you only feel that when youalmost forget that you're
running and if your knee'sbothering you or your stomach's
bothering you, or you're justfeeling super, super worn out
(05:34):
and tired and you're worriedabout what the number on the
clock says and all of thesethings it, you're not going into
flow state and you're not gonnafeel the joy of the run itself
'cause you're so concentratedon.
Other things that are happeningduring the run.
Angie (05:48):
Yeah.
So let's get into this andunderstand the 4 0 4 a little
bit better and why we need toreroute our training when we hit
this point, because everybodyhits this point at a different
point in their running journey.
Some people start to hit it inperimenopause.
Some people it's aftermenopause.
Men.
Men hit this point as well.
So it's not just a female onlything, but let's start to
(06:12):
understand why this ishappening.
Why?
The stuff that used to work, whyisn't it working the same way
anymore?
So just like the link that youused to click used to work and
used to direct you to the placethat you wanted to go.
Your old training strategy.
Doesn't lead to where it used tofor a lot of people, and this is
again, this happens at variouspoints in the journey, but
(06:34):
basically what's happening atthe base level is that your
body's physiology is changing orhas changed.
So women specifically inperimenopause and menopause,
your estrogen levels aredeclining.
Your progesterone levels aredecreasing and changing, and
this is leading to elevatedlevels of cortisol, which is
(06:55):
your stress hormone.
Your body doesn't recover asquickly, so your.
Literal physiology of your bodyis not the same in your forties,
fifties, sixties, as it was whenyou were in your twenties and
thirties.
And it's not the same in yourfifties as it was in your
forties.
And it's probably not the sameat 44 as it was at 40.
Like I'm even noticing now at44, my body is much different
(07:17):
than it was just a couple ofyears ago because I am getting
closer to the age of menopauseand my hormones are more,
changing more as I get to thatpoint.
And we have all of thesephysiological changes that are
happening in our body.
We also have changes in ourlife.
Whatever's happening in yourlife right now is likely not the
same as it was five years ago,10 years ago, or maybe even just
(07:40):
six months ago, right?
Like different things pop up inour lives at different points,
and that puts stress on the bodyand emotional stress.
Psychological stress, financialstress, all of those things
still cause stress in the body.
And stress is stress.
All of it plays a role in howyour body responds to training.
So if you're just in a morestressful place in your life
(08:03):
because of outside events thatare not related to running, per
se.
It's going to make a differencein how your body responds to
running and how you feel on yourruns.
Kevin (08:12):
And it's not saying that you didn't have stressful events
in your life 10, 15 years ago.
But maybe when you're younger,you're in your low twenties,
early thirties, you're like, oh,there's still so much life left.
Maybe you're hitting a point nowwhere you're, you've got some
judgment coming on.
Where you're currently at inyour life.
When you're in your, like yourlow twenties, we got little kids
and you're starting up work andyou're trying to figure out all
(08:34):
this stuff that is a verystressful time, but you accept
that you're out of college andyou're starting all these new
things and there's a bunch ofstuff that you're trying to
juggle all the ballssimultaneously doing the best
you can.
You know that some of them aregetting dropped.
And it's just an accepted ofthat's what's happening.
But as you move into forties andfifties, you're established in
your job and you're I should bemove.
(08:54):
I should be moving to a certainposition.
I should be at this placealready.
Just having that should bethought is creating extra stress
into your life, beyond all ofthe actual physi, physiological
changes that are coming inthere.
Angie (09:07):
And so when you have thoughts like that increase your
psychological stress, that alsois increasing your cortisol
levels, which then.
Affects how your body is able torun, how your body's able to
recover from your runs.
So all of these things areconnected and I think that a lot
of times we want to see them asseparate and we wanna see
running as something that helpsus deal with stress.
(09:28):
And it does it definitely hasmental health benefits.
And at the same time it is astress on the body, especially
if you are pushing hard.
Every time you go out for a run,you're trying to run fast,
you're trying to do more becauseyou're noticing that you're not
getting the results that youused to have.
That's going to be even tougher.
And we often start to see thesechanges and maybe we can even
(09:50):
acknowledge some of thosechanges that are happening.
Okay, Ange I hear ya.
Yes.
My life does look different now.
Things look different.
My body's changing.
All right.
But oftentimes.
We can start to see thosethings, but our minds haven't
really gotten on board yet withaccepting where we are in our
life right now.
And so we have to reallyunderstand how to shift that as
(10:12):
well to a place of acceptanceand not acceptance, meaning
complacency.
And I think that's where a lotof people get misinterpret that,
right?
Because a lot of people think ifI accept something, that means
that I'm okay with it.
And that means I'm not gonna tryto change it.
And I want.
To make sure you hear me veryclearly, that acceptance does
not equal complacency, but we,and we do have to accept
(10:36):
something first before we areactually able to change it.
Kevin (10:40):
Yeah.
Acceptance in the most negativesense.
To go back to your 4 0 4,metaphor is saying oh 4, 0 4
broken link.
I guess I can never get to thatwebsite anymore.
And that's not what we'resaying.
That's not the level ofacceptance.
Acceptance isn't like brokenlink.
That website doesn't existanymore.
Angie (10:55):
Yeah.
Guess that's done with
Kevin (10:56):
like that's, that is a very sad way of looking at this
and that is clearly not howwe're gonna wrap up this episode
of and especially, and it's sad.
Yeah.
Especially
Angie (11:04):
on my website.
Site when, like when brokenlinks are on my website, I'm
like I wonder where that linkwent.
It's not oh, guess that page isgone.
That blog link no longer worksever again.
It's
Kevin (11:13):
just gone and vanished into the ether.
Yeah, it's just, there it goes.
But I, into the cloud, I, wekinda went over one.
I have a question for you,'causeI know on this, I wanna make
sure that it balances on, on menand women also.
Your type of muscle fiberschange also as you get older,
like you get more slow twitchfibers naturally as you get
older.
This works for both genders,right?
Angie (11:34):
Yes.
Kevin (11:34):
Okay, so this is also a thing that you're going up
against is when, and
Angie (11:38):
just a loss of overall lean muscle mass as well.
Kevin (11:41):
Overall loss of lean muscle mass.
Yes.
Angie (11:43):
We're losing lean muscle mass unless we are actively.
Building and trying to maintainit through strength training.
And those fibers are switchingfrom type two to type one.
Kevin (11:53):
So it's making it harder to go faster.
Because we don't have the sameamount muscle and generate power
it's harder to go faster becauseyou can't generate as much
power.
Because.
E every year of life.
You literally are just flippingover some of the muscles towards
slow twitch stuff, which is whyyou don't really see Olympic
sprinters up in their forties.
Like you can still see reallyhigh caliber distance runners.
Yeah.
As they get older.
But it doesn't really happen asmuch on the sprint side.
Angie (12:14):
Yeah.
And that's why a lot of thepeople that used to be on the
track tend to get longer andlonger distances as they get
older as well.
Exactly.
Kevin (12:22):
Yeah, because you just you can't, you also see some
people move from like the 10 Kmarathon and then they head into
trail running
Angie (12:28):
the 10 K marathon,
Kevin (12:29):
10 K or marathon.
Angie (12:31):
Oh, I didn't hear the, or
Kevin (12:32):
I, I had a slash in my head.
I made a chopping.
I know.
We just, it looks like a, youdid
Angie (12:37):
make a chopping.
It's on a podcast, but
Kevin (12:39):
just so everybody can understand, I didn't say 10 K
Marathon, like those areequivalent to each other.
I put a slash with my hand.
Yeah.
Like your
Angie (12:47):
coworker that asks you, how was your 10 K marathon this
weekend?
Kevin (12:50):
Yes.
My 10 K marathon.
No for people who are doing a 10k slash marathon, is that better
for you?
Maybe move on to the trailsbecause even if the distance is
the same or even shorter, it'spossible that just because of
the trail thing there's a slowereffort level to, or there's a
slower pace to it because of thevariation of terrain.
Angie (13:08):
And so what we don't want.
You all to follow and the trapthat we don't want you to fall
in is there's a couple trapsthat we can tend to fall in
here.
Number one is thinking that thisis just the way that it is.
I guess I'm just broken, or I'mjust, I guess I'm just getting
older and I just have to acceptit and there's nothing that I
can do about it.
We do not want you to fall intothat trap because that is not
(13:30):
true.
What is, but we, the second trapthat we don't want you to fall
into is.
Just trying to do the same thingand trying to do more of it, or
trying to do it harder or tryingto hit enter with more force to
show the computer whose boss.
Kevin (13:44):
I might have just typed the website in wrong.
Maybe I should just try typingthe website again.
No, you type the website justfine and so
Angie (13:51):
you delete it and then you start typing it and then URL
just generates itselfautomatically and you hit enter
again.
Yeah, but and don't actuallytype in the whole thing.
No,
Kevin (14:00):
But I hit enter with.
Force, that's the key again, tolet the computer know whose
boss.
Whose boss.
Yeah.
Angie (14:06):
So if you're just trying to repeat the same methods,
adding more mileage.
Restricting your calories, notfueling your body.
Pushing yourself harder, tryingto go faster on all of your
runs, hoping that it's going tostart working again.
Pushing enter with lots of forceto show the computer whose boss.
It's just going to lead to morefrustration.
(14:27):
Injury burnout and more stressand most likely injury.
That's gonna be a big time thatpeople start to get injured,
especially as they get older.
Kevin (14:34):
'cause it's not just repeating the same methods, it's
trying the same method, butliterally with more force.
That's why like I do this Ijoke, but I literally do this.
I'm like, maybe if I hit theenter key harder.
But people do this, like itsounds silly to that hitting the
enter key would do something.
'cause obviously that's notaffecting the website's on a
different place.
But people do this with theirrunning all the time.
(14:57):
They're like, this method hasalways worked for me.
So maybe if I just do the samestyle of training, but up the
volume, up the intensity.
But I generally am doing thesame thing.
I just turn the dial up just alittle bit more and turning the
dial up a little bit more on amethod that's not working for
you is a hundred percent goingto.
Suck all of the fun out of it,and like you said, most likely
(15:18):
gonna set you up for an injury.
But it's also gonna suck the funout of it before you even get
hurt.
And once you're hurt, you knowthat an injured runner is just
like the least fun person thatyou could possibly be around.
Angie (15:27):
Yeah, I might know about that from experience, being your
wife and all, and I'm justsaying, I, I love you.
Kevin (15:35):
Maybe it's more than just pushing the enter key really
hard.
And it's possible that I havereflected some of this myself
over the years,
Angie (15:41):
quite possibly.
So we had a client that came tous a couple years ago and.
He was trying to improve hishalf marathon time and he was, I
believe in his forties orfifties at the time.
I can't remember exactly'cause Idon't always know people's exact
ages, but he was running a halfmarathon every other day trying
(16:01):
to break two hours and he wasunable to break two hours.
He had been working at it formonths and months, I don't
remember exactly how long, butit was for an extended, it was
at least three to six months.
And he would just go out andwhen he came to us, he was, he
told me this and I said, wait.
What you are running a halfmarathon every other day.
And he's yeah, and I don't knowwhy I'm getting close.
I'm at like 2 0 5, 2 0 4, like 20 2, but I'm like stuck right
(16:24):
there.
I keep trying to push harder andI can't break two hours and
through our method and ourprogram, we put him on a plan
that changed what he was doingand not have, so we really
pulled back a lot on hismileage.
Because he was in, in thatmindset, because, and it's not
his fault, he didn't really knowany better.
He figured, like a lot ofrunners do.
(16:45):
They figure, okay, we're runningis pretty simple.
And when you start running, whenyou start increasing your
mileage and when you startpushing harder, it works like it
works for quite a while until itstops working.
And that.
Point always comes, it's just amatter of when it comes for each
person.
And so he was at that point, andhe had been at that point for
(17:05):
quite a while.
He was at that plateau to thepoint where he wanted to
actually figure out what wasgoing on and reach out for help.
And so we took him, we put himon a plan, and we pulled back
his total mileage by quite a lotand put him on.
What we do with all of ourathletes, which is a more, more
polarized training schedule,where your easy runs are truly
(17:27):
easy, and then you have harderdays where you're doing speed
play and harder trainingsessions.
And then of course.
Complimenting that with somestrength training and some other
things to make sure that hestays strong and injury free.
And after, I wanna say 12 or 16weeks, I'm pretty sure it was
after like his first trainingcycle.
He dropped 15 minutes off of histime and ran a 1 45.
Kevin (17:49):
Yeah, every distance run that we had, like the long runs
on the weekend over, thatwasn't, there was no attempts to
break two on those.
It was just, you're gonna goout, you're gonna cover the
mileage, it's gonna be nice andcomfortable.
Angie (17:58):
And yeah, I was having.
So much more fun.
So much more fun.
He was like, he loved running,like he came to us loving,
running.
He was starting to get veryfrustrated with it, but he
started to enjoy his runs somuch more,
Kevin (18:10):
and so he came to us before the joy was completely
sucked out.
Yeah.
Because he was on the verge oflosing the joy.
And it was like, all right,we're gonna need to turn your,
like your Tuesday half marathoninto five miles at an easy pace.
And it was very confusing atfirst.
Yeah.
Because it didn't make anysense.
Angie (18:23):
And it was very uncomfortable for him because,
and again, this go goes back tothat mindset piece.
And I, a lot of ladies in, inthe program inside of running
Reconnected, when we start totalk about nutrition, they also
come up again.
It's this mental block and thismental wall.
When I tell them you're noteating enough food, like you
actually need to eat more food.
And there's this huge blockbecause for decades they've
(18:47):
believed the lie that the foodindustry has told us about how
we need to restrict.
We need to eat less, we need tocut our calories, calories in,
calories out, all the bolognathat we are fed.
Kevin (18:59):
You shouldn't eat bologna.
Also,
Angie (19:02):
it's highly processed.
That there is a, there's a bigmental block to actually eating
more food.
Just like for a lot of runners,there's a big mental block for
decreasing mileage because itseems counterintuitive.
It seems if I do that, I'm gonnago backwards and nobody wants to
go backwards.
And so it is a leap of faith.
And we do ask our athletes totrust us, like there is a trust
(19:24):
factor that needs to be thereand to be built for them to
actually get on board with.
The things that are truly goingto help them.
Kevin (19:31):
But here's the thing is we've got a couple different
scenarios that we're talkingabout here.
Obviously, there's most peoplethat we're talking about fall
into the category of runnersover 40, but this whole idea of
a training plan that simply hasstopped working for you happens
for runners at much younger agesalso.
That's true.
Yeah.
There are runners that who havea running age, like the time,
the amount of years that you'vebeen running.
(19:52):
Yeah.
Can start building up.
Like I was in my mid twentiesand I was like, okay, I can't
just keep training in the samemethod.
It's not working for me.
And I had to rethink how I wastraining.
My new method of training wasnot necessarily the most
successful either, as Iultimately ended up in a
hospital with seizures.
But I did still have torearrange.
I've gone through this a fewtimes.
Yeah.
To try and figure out what worksbest for me.
(20:14):
So personally, I.
I can get stuck in things if Ican take a moment and step back
and see it's not working, I canusually, from my running
perspective, I don't Clinging tothings.
Yeah.
A lot of runners clinging to theway that it has been.
Even if they can see that it'snot making the progress, they're
like, I know, but this hasalways worked, so I have to stay
(20:35):
onto it.
Yeah.
Because trying something new.
In running or in any avenue oflife, trying something new when
you don't know what the resultsare gonna be, seems a little bit
scary.
Angie (20:44):
Yeah, and I think that also there are periods of
plateau in our running journeythat are very normal, and it can
be a frustrating thing forrunners because we as runners
want to see progress.
And so when we do hit a plateau,it can be frustrating.
So really this applies mostly toyou if you have noticed that a
(21:07):
plateau or a decline that islasting more than three to six
months, would you agree?
Kevin (21:12):
Yes.
Because plateaus are great.
Yeah.
Sometimes the plateau isliterally just the spring of
your training just coiling upand it's gonna lead to a
breakthrough, right?
It's when you really seem stuckon that load.
Plateau for so long, or you'vebeen sloping downward for
several months, that's the signthat maybe you need to actually
flip the direction becausesometimes plateaus happen.
(21:33):
Yeah.
Like you don't your fitness.
Yeah.
And I
Angie (21:35):
wanna make sure that we like point that out.
That's like plateaus are normal.
Kevin (21:38):
Yeah.
That's a really good thing thatyou pointed out because.
We see that.
Yeah.
Like we get clients that comeinto us all the time that are
like, they've jumped from oneonline training program to the
next.
Every time it looks like theyget to a plateau, they just leap
to a different system.
They change.
Yeah.
And you have to stick with amethod and let it play its way
out, especially as you move fromone to the next.
If you flip methods, you'regoing to see results rather
(22:01):
quickly and then get ontoanother plateau, and you have to
get through that plateau toreally reap the full benefits of
whatever method.
As long as it's a worthwhilemethod, as long as it's not
getting you hurt, it probably isgonna take a little bit of time
to reap the full.
Benefits of it,
Angie (22:15):
right?
'cause a lot of times you can dothings and not see the benefits
for a while.
'cause your body is changing,your body's adapting, and there
are changes that are going onunderneath the surface that you
can't see yet.
And then all of a sudden there'sa breakthrough.
And we like to talk inside ofour team with our clients about
the magic.
Like there are people that comeon our coaching calls every week
(22:36):
and they say I don't understand.
Like I am running.
I'm not, I've never raced mygoal pace.
I'm not, I've never done thisbefore.
I've never run this fulldistance, especially the people
training for a marathon.
I've never run 26.2 miles.
The highest I've gone in mytraining is 18 or 20 miles.
You're telling me this is justgonna happen and it's yes.
There's a magic that happens onrace day when you train.
(22:58):
Properly when you follow awell-designed personalized
training plan, when you taperand you trust the training, that
there is that adaptation becauseit takes your body time to adapt
to the training.
So it doesn't matter necessarilywhat you do in the week or two
leading up to the training.
A lot of times those.
(23:19):
Last couple of weeks of yourtraining plan right before your
race have little to no effect onhow you actually perform.
But the 10 weeks, the 12 weeks,the 16 weeks before that have a
massive effect.
Your body just needed time toadapt and actually absorb all of
that training.
Kevin (23:35):
Yeah.
I always like to tell peoplethat like the last week of
training before your race, allyou can really do is screw
things up with that week.
You're not putting in a work ofthat workout on Tuesday of the
race on Sunday is not doinganything for your race on
Sunday.
Unless you overdo it, hurtyourself and exhaust yourself on
Tuesday.
Yeah.
Unless you shoot your shot atyour race on Tuesday workout.
(23:58):
Because you've started yourtaper and so you feel great and
it's a workout and you're like,oh, I feel really good.
I should crush it in thisworkout.
And you overdo it and you runyour race on Tuesday, even
though your race is actually onSunday.
That happens all the time, butyou're not really getting the
physical or mental benefits fromthe workout during race week.
Angie (24:17):
Yeah.
So if you do find yourself on aplateau that's lasting more than
three to six months, this iswhen.
You have to look for the 4 0 4or I shouldn't say the'cause.
The 4 0 4 is not really theredirect.
The 4 0 4 is what you're hittingwhere when you're hitting that
plateau or you're seeing thatdecline, that broken link, and
so we have to find the new path.
(24:37):
You need to find the new linkthat's going to actually direct
you to the place that you wannago, which is that training
strategy that's aligned with whoyou are now, not who you were.
Last year, five years ago, 10years ago.
It's who you are, the body thatyou have right now, the
lifestyle that you're currentlyliving right now, and of course,
(24:57):
who you want to be in thefuture.
I think that there's a lot oftimes we get this messed up
because we base our currentactions on the past instead of
the future because our brainknows the past.
There's evidence there.
The future is very unknown.
But what we want to do is reallylook ahead to the future, to the
person that we want to becomeand base our training.
(25:19):
On that person, on, on what thatperson would be doing at this
point in their journey.
So don't hear me incorrectly.
I'm not saying we need to trainas if that we already have the
abilities of that person becausewe don't like, that's what
training is for.
We don't wanna just ramp up ourmileage and start running, 50
miles a week if you're currentlyrunning 10, even though that
(25:41):
marathon runner that you want tobe.
In six months is running 50miles a week.
That's not where you are today.
So I'm not saying to trainexactly.
As far as like the numbers andthe metrics go, like that person
would train or the paces thatperson would train, but to start
with the mentality that personwould have and approach training
in the same way with where youare right now.
(26:02):
Does that make sense?
Kevin (26:03):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think one of the biggestthings on this is less grinding
out workouts.
When you're in your twenties,that's so hard because sometimes
grinding is fun.
Angie (26:14):
And not only is it fun, but like it's gotten results in
the past.
And I think about some of thetraining that I used to do eight
to 10 years ago, 10 years ago.
Is that right?
And
Kevin (26:24):
it feels remarkably rewarding.
Angie (26:26):
10.
Kevin (26:27):
Huh.
It, but I, okay, so let me talkfor a second here.
Sorry.
Angie (26:31):
I'm like re goop.
We're grouping,
Kevin (26:33):
it feels so rewarding.
Seven or eight to grind out abrutal workout.
Yeah.
There are some workouts that Idid back in my teens that you
finish it and you're just likea.
Puddle on the track and you'relike, oh God, that was so good.
If I finished a workout and Iwas a puddle on the track, I
would be worthless for runningfor the next week and a half.
Yeah, like I would just have towalk around maybe an easy run,
(26:55):
walk, jog kind of thing.
Like I just don't have theability to go that deep.
Yeah.
On that.
Fast of a track workout anymore.
You have to be very intentionalabout the effort that you're
willing to expend in any givenworkout.
The whole idea, and this goesfor training at all levels, all
ages of always leave one rep inreserve.
(27:15):
You never want to go all induring a workout.
You always wanna just have alittle bit left over so that
you're, you don't just sodeplete yourself.
You leave an extra couple ofreps in reserve as we get a
little older.
Yeah, because it, the recoverychanges, right?
So you want more than one repleft.
You want a couple?
Angie (27:32):
And you don't have to go to that level to gain the same
benefits anymore either.
Also true, because a lot of ushave been running for a while.
There are some people that arenew to running and that's
fantastic and we're here for youalso, and I love that you're
here and you're listening tothis podcast and there's a lot
of people that have been runningfor decades.
Your legs, your body knowsmileage, it knows speed work.
(27:54):
It knows a lot of these things,and so you need less.
Volume and less intensity inorder to reap the same levels of
benefits.
Kevin (28:05):
You also don't need as much mental grit.
Yeah.
Training.
Yeah.
If you've done it already.
Like you need enough, you needto periodically have a workout
where you push yourself reallyhard.
Yeah.
And you can be like, oh yeah.
I remember what this feels like.
I'm good.
Angie (28:19):
And that can, because that will allow you to tap into
it.
Yes.
'cause it's already there.
Because
Kevin (28:23):
it's there.
Yeah.
You've trained it so much, youjust have to remember that it's
there.
Yeah.
Remember how to access it.
But you don't have to dwell init.
Yeah.
On a regular basis.
Every single week have a superdraining workout where you're
like, oh man, I really had togut it out at the end.
You just, you don't need it.
Yeah.
Every once in a while you needto.
Try it.
Yeah.
To make sure that it's stillthere.
(28:44):
That when you try and hit the,in, like the starter on a grill
outside, make sure that starterstill actually does something.
'cause sometimes it kinda wearsout over time.
Make sure that it's stillsparking from time to time.
Angie (28:55):
Yeah.
And we do need intense sessionsand so make sure that you're not
hearing that.
Either like we do need to havehigh intensity sessions as we
get older.
Like they become even moreimportant because of what we
were mentioning before with theloss of our fast twitch muscle
fibers with the loss of leanmuscle mass.
When we do those higherintensity sessions sporadically,
(29:15):
that's the key sporadically withlots of plenty of recovery.
That's actually very good forus, but we don't need them in
the same volume and in the samefrequency that we used to maybe
do.
Another thing that comes to mindtoo is this idea of.
The things and the shifts thatwe have to make of less
depletion, more restoration,like more recovery time even.
(29:37):
You were talking about yourworkouts that used to leave you.
In a puddle on the track, buteven just sleep, right?
Like we had our retreat thisweekend, which was amazing.
Shout out to all of our amazingseven amazing women that came
from all over North America.
This was an internationalretreat thanks to our Canadian
(29:59):
that came down to Florida tojoin us.
And it was amazing.
We had women from.
Literally seven different sixdifferent states and Canada.
Yep.
To come down to join us, whichwas so unbelievable.
And we stayed up late,especially that last night.
The last night.
Of the retreat after the ladiesleft the retreat house, we had
to clean up from dinner and, geteverything packed up.
(30:21):
'cause we had to check out thenext morning pretty early and I
had to take my friend to theairport and everything, but and
I had a friend come in fromNebraska to help out with the
retreat as well, which wasamazing.
And.
We stayed up really late thatnight.
We stayed up till 1 30, 2o'clock in the morning and I, we
had to wake up at five somethingto go to the airport.
That's not a lot of sleep.
(30:42):
Like that whole day I was wipedout.
I was exhausted that drive home.
Kevin and I, like Kevin starteddriving and I fell asleep in the
passenger seat and he's I got,I'm done.
Can you take over?
Yep, no problem.
And then I started driving andyou passed out in the passenger
seat.
Kevin (30:58):
I literally drove for as long as I possibly could.
Yeah.
And then when we stopped forlunch, I looked at you and just
I'm tapping out.
Yeah.
I can't do it.
Angie (31:04):
Yeah.
And that's what we do.
I'm gonna
Kevin (31:05):
drive off the side of the road.
This is not safe for the family.
Not a good idea.
I'm tapping out.
Angie (31:09):
And so then, and then we got home and basically unpacked
all of the cold, the coolers ofall the cold stuff that needed
to go into the fridge and wentand took a two hour nap.
Yep.
Because we were just wiped.
And that was, a combination ofall of the things that happened
that weekend, but also the factthat we didn't get enough sleep
in our bodies when we're older.
We need more sleep, we need morerecovery.
(31:31):
And I'm still a little kind of alittle slow on the uptake.
My speed work this morning waspretty good, actually.
I was actually pretty.
Happy with it.
I was surprised that I washitting some of the paces that I
was hitting, but I was good.
And so that's just again, proofthat we need to start doing
things a little bit differently.
And that also includes sleep andrecovery.
Kevin (31:50):
You were good on the paces, but were your effort
levels higher than they, theyshould have been.
Angie (31:54):
No, that's what I mean is 'cause I was going by effort.
Like I wasn't trying to, andthings
Kevin (31:57):
were, things were going pretty good.
Yeah.
Angie (31:58):
Like I wasn't trying to hit specific paces.
The first rep was definitely,like my legs were pretty tired.
Especially since I liftedyesterday, but in my, I did leg
day yesterday I.
But in my leg session, I, again,I'm maturing and getting wiser
with age.
I cut back on all of my weightsfor my normal leg day and did
less than I normally do becauseI knew that I was tired and not
(32:20):
recovered well from the weekend.
So I, except
Kevin (32:22):
for the weighted vest box jumps that you added in,
Angie (32:24):
I did not do box jumps.
Aren't you proud of me?
But yeah, so getting back tosome of these.
New paths and the redirects thatwe need in our life.
Kevin was saying, like lessgrinding, more intentional
workouts, making sure that ourworkouts all have a purpose.
That our easy days are actuallyeasy.
Our hard days are hard.
The other big shift that we needto make, which I alluded to.
(32:47):
When we talked about calorierestriction is this idea of,
from wanting to be thin, towanting to be strong.
Because when we focus on tryingto be thin and lose weight, it
often leads to restriction andover exercising, and that is
going to decrease our leanmuscle mass.
It's going to decrease our bonedensity, it's going to lead to
(33:08):
hormonal issues and thyroidproblems and all sorts of things
down the chain.
Whereas if we focus on beingstrong and we really work our
body to like with resistancetraining, with easy runs and
hard runs, making sure thatwe're fueling our body and
getting enough protein andcarbohydrates, getting enough
sleep, and really focusing onimproving the strength of our
(33:31):
bodies, we will.
Get faster or we will improveour endurance just by shifting
the focus of what we're doing inour training.
And that's a really powerfulshift that I love seeing the
women inside of RunningReconnected make.
And when they come in, they'relike, oh my gosh, this is such a
game changer.
Kevin (33:48):
Yeah.
The, this shift from thin tostrong and the whole idea of
lack of calorie restrictions, Ithink that it played out really
well at the retreat also.
It was really nice.
There was a lot of good food.
Yeah.
And people were like, oh yeah,I'm gonna need that now I'm
gonna have a snack.
And there's, there was nojudgment around any of it.
Yeah.
Because everybody was so focusedon making sure that they were
taking care of themselves.
(34:08):
When you step back from retreatlife and there's other people
and you're like, oh, I don'tknow what that person's gonna
think.
It's really irrelevant what thatperson thinks.
You need to take care of yourbody.
Yeah.
And more than you need to takecare of what anybody else is
thinking about your body.
You need to take care of whatyou think about it.
And everybody is going tooperate their best when they're
operating filled, fueled, andstrong.
Angie (34:30):
Yeah.
And even at the retreat, if you,if the ladies were sitting there
and they were hungry the wholetime because they didn't want to
eat or they didn't wanna looklike they were.
Overeating or being littlepiggies or whatever, like some
of them were joking around.
But if they were hungry, theyweren't gonna be able to
participate as fully in theactivities either.
We went on group runs and wewent kayaking, and we did mental
(34:54):
performance and trainingsessions, and we did yoga on the
beach.
Like it was just such anincredible like soul filling
weekend.
But you can't do that whenyou're hungry.
Like going back to Maslow'shierarchy of needs, if you all
are familiar with that pyramid,we have to fulfill our need for
survival first, which is fuelingour body before we're able to
(35:15):
get into building relationshipsor looking at the deeper purpose
for our life.
You know that tip of thatpyramid is self-actualization
and really.
Contributing to the world andwanting to make a difference
with our lives.
We can't do that when we'rehungry.
We can't do that when we are notsleeping well, when we are just
(35:35):
exhausted and not fueled.
And it's really hard to think,to maintain and to build
relationships, to be a goodparent or a good spouse, or a
good daughter or son.
Like all of that becomes harderwhen we're not taking care of
those needs.
And I dunno, that's a little bitof a tangent, but it is a very
(35:56):
important one.
But with a
Kevin (35:57):
takeaway message of go have a snack it's important to
eat.
Angie (36:01):
Yeah, there's one of my favorite.
Instagrammers, her handle is bigtime adulting, I think is what
it's called.
She's hilarious and that's oneof her things.
So she's, she had a viral reel.
She's had quite a few I think atthis point.
But one of the ways that I foundher is when she was like, Hey
ladies, are you, like how areyour cortisol levels?
Are you fueling your body?
(36:21):
And she like just went off aboutall of the things that social
media tells us that we need tobe doing to take care of
ourselves and how ridiculous allof the advice is and how
contradictory a lot of it is.
And she's hilarious'cause shedoes it in very like deadpan
style, but she then sometimeswill.
Talk to the camera and go off onher little rant, and then she'll
end by poking the camera and belike, go have a snack.
Snacks are good.
(36:42):
Which is so great.
Kevin (36:43):
Which is a hundred percent true.
Yeah.
Like it, it's important to putfuel in your body.
Angie (36:48):
Yeah.
Your brain needs carbs.
But yeah, these are all, thestories that we tell ourself,
like the stories that we've beenconditioned to believe growing
up.
Those stories are starting tobreak, and they're starting to
be broken.
And not only because of thephase of life that we're in, but
also because of the new researchand the science that's coming
out.
That is showing us howdysfunctional some of these old
(37:10):
ways of thinking and old ways oftraining are, and how much
better we can feel and how muchbetter we can perform in our
forties, fifties, sixties, inall these later decades of our
life if we're just taking careof our body a little bit
differently.
Kevin (37:23):
You.
You point out some very goodimport importance information
there of the new research that'scoming out.
Forget the training method thatworked for you in the past, and
now you're a little bit olderand it's not working.
Yeah.
What about the fact thattraining method is simply not
the training method that anybodyuses anymore, regardless of age?
What about the advances intraining itself?
Yeah, not just trainingdifferently because of your age,
(37:43):
which is one thing, but trainingdifferently because.
Everybody is trainingdifferently at all ages, and
they've figured out better waysto do this.
Yeah.
Fasted training used to be athing, like fasted training was
a push back in like the ninetiesand extended into the early two
thousands.
It's just not a thing anymore.
Angie (38:01):
And there are.
Our men can get away with itmore than women can.
Like
Kevin (38:05):
three men in the entire world can get away with it.
Angie (38:08):
But more than women can.
Kevin (38:09):
No.
Women can get away with it.
And there's three dudes andthree dudes and there's, and
none of them are on Instagram.
Yeah.
There's a thousand dudes onInstagram that are still
suggesting that their fastedtraining is working for them.
But they're all on human growthhormone.
Yeah.
So it's not the fasted training.
Angie (38:25):
Yeah.
And one of the things that we.
Really dug into at the retreatthis weekend were the stories
that we tell ourselves and howwe are all telling ourselves
stories every single day.
This is just what our braindoes.
It's very normal.
There's sentences in our braincalled thoughts.
Those thoughts turn intobeliefs.
These beliefs we create storiesour brain loves.
(38:46):
Stories.
And if we don't know the answer,we make up an answer.
Like literally, that's what ourbrain does because our brain
can't deal with open loops.
It has to close the loop, and sowe have.
We tell ourselves stories and alot of these stories we've been
telling ourselves for decadessince, even since we were
children.
And we don't even realize thatthese are the stories that we're
telling ourselves.
(39:07):
And so the big thing that we didover the retreat weekend, and we
dig into this too, inside of ourcoaching program, is finding
those stories that.
And then examining them andsaying, okay, is this story
leading me to what I want?
Is this giving me the resultthat I want?
And if the answer is no if theanswer is yes, go ahead and keep
(39:28):
it.
If that's a good story that'sserving you well in your life
and you like it, fantastic, keepit.
But if it's not leading to theplace where.
You want to, the results thatyou want to, the feelings that
you want, then it's time tochange it.
And that's where it can getreally exciting to start
rewriting and decidingconsciously and choosing what
(39:48):
story you want to step into.
And a lot of people in thisphase of life believe that their
best running days are behindthem.
They believe that I'll never befast.
To get, it's only, I'm justgonna get slower from here.
That's a story that you'retelling yourself.
And I, there is plenty of peopleout there and evidence that is
not true, that get faster asthat they, as they get older,
there's, you're gonna hear somestories here.
(40:10):
In the coming weeks of somereally inspiring, amazing
runners that we've been had theprivilege to work with that
started running in their latefifties and now running half
marathons, ultra marathons ininner sixties.
There's amazing things thatpeople can do, but you have to
start believing.
A different story first.
Kevin (40:30):
Yeah.
The whole idea of your bestrunning days behind you.
I would've liked to havefinished higher up in my last
race.
I always wanna finish higher up.
You
Angie (40:37):
finished sixth.
Kevin (40:38):
I know, and it's always nicer to finish.
Higher up always.
But at the end of the race, thelast two people that passed me
were older than me by a decade.
That is a really nice way torewrite a story when the guy in
his mid fifties just casuallytrots right past you and goes
looking good.
I'm gonna try and keep up withthis guy.
Yeah.
And I tried to for two minutesand then he just pulled away.
(41:01):
I'm like, all right, so bestrunning days.
Clearly not behind me.
Look at this guy.
Go.
Angie (41:05):
Yeah.
Because he's now inspiration andproof of what's possible.
Kevin (41:08):
Exactly right.
It's proof of concept,
Angie (41:09):
and I think that's so powerful.
'cause a lot of times when wesee other people, we say, oh,
it's possible for them, but notfor me.
Or like they're a freak ofnature.
Or we make these excuses of whatmakes them different from us.
But what if they're not?
What if they're proof?
That is possible for you also.
And I love the what ifs, right?
I think that the what ifsoftentimes our brain likes to
(41:32):
use them against us and go intothe negative of what if this
doesn't turn out right?
What if I get hurt?
What if it goes, goes bad Andyou can use those what ifs in
such a powerful way, just in theopposite direction, what if this
went really well?
What if I ran faster than I everhave before?
What if I didn't have pain?
What if I decided that this painwasn't serving me and I released
(41:53):
it and.
Started writing a new story formyself, what would that be like?
And we can start thinking moreand expanding our possibilities,
which is what Kevin talked aboutat the retreat, which is such a,
an amazing talk that he gave aswell.
But again, it goes back to whatdo you wanna believe about
yourself?
What do you wanna believe aboutyour running, moving forward?
And I think that's reallypowerful.
(42:14):
If you believe that your bestrunning days are behind you and
that you're gonna get slower,what will your running be like
in five years versus if youbelieve.
My best running days are aheadof me.
Then what will your running belike in five years?
Just that one choice on the waythat you're gonna look at your
training can make a world ofdifference.
Kevin (42:34):
Yeah.
There's a beautiful country songout there.
When you start going off on allof the what ifs there, I.
I think the title of the song isWhat If, but it's the whole idea
that her outlook is what if thisdoesn't work out?
What if we break up again?
What if this goes south?
What if?
And he flips it and goes, butwhat if this was made to be?
What if this was the bestrelationship that you could
possibly have?
(42:55):
What if this is what we've beenwaiting for?
Is
Angie (42:58):
that the one that's what if this was your last first
kiss?
Kevin (43:01):
No, that's a different song, but that's also a good
one.
Yeah.
So it's just, it's a great Whatif, so on, it being April 1st,
it's also, what if I didn't askthat girl to turn around her
clutter ring?
So many years ago back incollege,
Angie (43:15):
oh my God, it's April 1st.
I know.
Kevin (43:17):
It's our dating anniversary.
It's our dating of many years.
Our
Angie (43:19):
dating.
Oh my gosh.
I totally didn't.
Just remember that, but becauseyou remembered and thank you for
reminding me.
So what story are you tellingyourself?
What is the broken link that youneed to reroute?
What is the new link that youneed to find?
And understanding that what gotyou here won't get you there?
(43:39):
That is a phrase that my coachuses a lot in referring to
business and life.
But it's true.
What worked up until now is not.
Going to be the thing thatcontinues to take you to where
you want to go.
And so even though it worked inthe past, it might stop working.
It might not work as well.
So you need to find the new linkin your life, and that starts
(44:00):
with the way that you'rethinking about your training.
It starts with the way thetraining sessions that you're
doing, how you're training islaid out and structured.
Your nutrition, your sleep, yourrecovery, all the things.
So what.
Broken link do you have in yourtraining and your life that you
need to fix and that you need tofind a new link for?
Kevin (44:20):
Yeah.
And that new link might be verydifferent.
Yeah.
And some of you may bestruggling, but it is real life
runners.
There's two Ls in the middle ofthat.
If you're typing it in, there'stwo Ls.
And then push the ender buttonreal firmly, which show the
computer whose boss, but itmight be a very different
website.
There might be a completelydifferent address.
And that's where you need tooverhaul the training.
The intensity, the overallvolume, the nutrition, the
(44:42):
stress, the whole lifestyle.
It could be a whole overhaul.
Angie (44:45):
Yeah.
It's like the new.
Rebranding of our program.
Like the program used to becalled Press Play and now it's
called Running Reconnected.
So we have to go in and find allthose links and change all of
those links.
Kevin (44:57):
It's a whole different address.
It's
Angie (44:58):
a whole different address.
And so it's important for us tofind those links.
And the thing is, you might notfind'em all right away.
Also, there might be thosesneaky, hidden ones that stay
broken for a little while untilyou find them.
And then you change those aswell.
Kevin (45:11):
Yeah.
They show up at like mile 20 ofa marathon.
You're like, ah.
I did not think that one wasstill there.
Yeah.
Angie (45:16):
So I would love to hear your news story, like where is
your broken link?
What is the redirect that youneed right now?
I would love for you to send mea DM on Instagram.
We're at real life runners onInstagram.
Send me a dm, let me know.
What is the thing that you'restruggling with right now?
I would love to connect with youmore.
We also have a five day runningchallenge coming up in a few
(45:37):
weeks.
We're gonna be opening upenrollment for that, but if you
want some help right now.
Shoot me a DM on Instagram or weare also running a free class.
You can check ourwebsite@realliferunners.com
slash strong if you want to getin our next free class as well.
So if you found this episodehelpful, we would love for you
to leave us a review.
(45:59):
On your favorite podcast player,share it with a friend so that
we can help more runners to feelgood, feel more empowered, both
now and in the future.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
404.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
You know when you click on a link and you get that
(00:01):
little message 404 page notfound, it's not your fault.
The page didn't vanish becauseyou did something wrong.
It's just that link doesn't gowhere it used to and trying to
refresh it over and over.
that doesn't fix anythingeither.
It's like our training after 40things don't work the same way
that they used to.
Your body's changing and yourtraining needs to also.
(00:24):
Just like the webpage, thesolution is not to double down
on what used to work.
It's to reroute to create a newpath forward, one that matches
where you are now and where youwant to go.
And today we're talking aboutthat moment.
The moment when your training,your mindset, maybe even your
identity, hit a 404, and how tostop refreshing the old page and
(00:45):
start writing a brand new one.
So stay tuned.
(01:12):
What's up runners?
Welcome to episode 404, page notfound what to do when your
training plan stops working.
Kevin (01:19):
I know the answer to page not found.
I do this at work all the time.
You just go up to the top of thepage.
You re-highlight the website.
Yes.
And you hit enter again.
And sometimes you hit enter likeextra hard,
Angie (01:30):
why wouldn't you just hit the refresh button?
The little like curly Q arrow.
Kevin (01:33):
Sometimes you can try the curly Q arrow, but sometimes you
just, you really wanna make surethat you've typed it in and then
firmly press the enter button.
To let the computer know who'sboss.
Angie (01:41):
Yeah.
That works for you.
yeah.
Kevin (01:43):
It's, that's a guarantee.
Angie (01:44):
So today when we were thinking, when I was thinking
about, okay, what are we gonnatalk about on episode 4 0 4?
This.
Analogy popped into my head ofthat super annoying 4 0 4 page,
right?
Like when you hit a 4 0 4 page,that page I don't know about you
guys, but I know I get annoyedwith it.
what the heck?
Especially if it's on my websiteand I don't know that it's
there, and I'm like, wait, whathappened to this link?
(02:06):
Clearly this got changed and Ididn't.
Fix this link.
So when it's a broken link on myown website, that's a little
frustrating to say the least.
But it is one of those thingsthat can be really annoying.
And the same thing happens inour training when we get to a
point in our training.
Where things just don't work theway that they used to.
That link is not working.
(02:28):
It seems broken.
AKA, your body's not working thesame way it used to.
A lot of people over 40,especially women, when we're
going through perimenopause andafter menopause, when our
hormones are different, we feel.
Like our body's broken a lot oftimes and that is not necessary.
That is not the case for sure.
Your body's definitely notbroken.
It's just been rerouted to adifferent place.
Kevin (02:49):
And you have to find where that place is.
It's funny that you mentionedyour own website.
It's a site that you're veryfamiliar with.
Yeah.
As is so many people's trainingplans.
They know the way that they'vebeen training.
They know oh I've been a littleinconsistent.
My training will be off.
But if I just go back to thismethod has worked for me so many
years.
This is probably, sometimes youget newer runners later in life,
but we're talking about ifyou've been running for a while,
(03:11):
so many people are dedicated tothat plan.
They're like, oh, I know if youjust give me 12 weeks before a
marathon, I can lock in.
If you gimme a few months beforehalf marathon, I lock in.
This is my training plan.
It always leads to good successand suddenly.
It doesn't lead to the samesuccess.
That's where the frustrationcomes, because you know the
plan, it's worked for you foryears, and suddenly you're
(03:34):
exhausted and you're runningslower, but feeling even more
tired.
It's a really rough combo.
Angie (03:40):
Yeah, and I think that can happen physically, and a lot
of people also see it happeningmentally.
Like they used to never have aproblem with consistency.
They'd go out on their run,they'd look forward to their
run, they enjoyed their run, andall of a sudden they.
Just don't feel like going andthey feel like obviously much
more tired and just lackingmotivation and that can relate
(04:04):
to the runs not feeling good.
When runs aren't feeling good,you're not gonna look forward to
them as much.
Of course, but there's just thisdifferent way that you even feel
towards running as well.
Kevin (04:13):
Yeah, a hundred percent agree with that one.
After my last race, there wasthe time that I needed to take
off physically, but then it was.
Difficult to get going again,there were some sickness in
there, but just mentally it wastough to be able to be like,
yeah, I'm gonna get fired backup and I'm gonna go off on some
training runs and get myselfgoing again.
'cause you always know going,getting going again is harder
than maintaining.
(04:33):
Once you're going it.
Feels fine for the most part,but that starting back up again
is always tricky to get themomentum going, especially if it
feels like it's not giving youthe return that you are used to
getting out of it.
Yeah.
Angie (04:47):
Yeah.
I think that's a big part of ittoo, is not getting that same
benefit, the same return.
Like you said, you're notgetting the same feelings and
that.
Not the physical feelings thatare the same.
The mental release that a lot ofpeople look for in running, that
changes because when runs arefeeling harder, you're just
putting more stress on yourbody.
And it turns out that a lot ofrunners end up feeling just more
(05:09):
depleted and more exhaustedafter their runs, and that's
gonna make it hard to staymotivated and consistent.
Kevin (05:14):
If you're frustrated with the run, you're not, it doesn't.
Feel good on the run and you'reso focused on what feels
uncomfortable and you're tired,you're never going into that
flow state where you actuallyever get close to feeling that
runner's high.
Yeah.
Like you only feel that when youalmost forget that you're
running and if your knee'sbothering you or your stomach's
bothering you, or you're justfeeling super, super worn out
(05:34):
and tired and you're worriedabout what the number on the
clock says and all of thesethings it, you're not going into
flow state and you're not gonnafeel the joy of the run itself
'cause you're so concentratedon.
Other things that are happeningduring the run.
Angie (05:48):
Yeah.
So let's get into this andunderstand the 4 0 4 a little
bit better and why we need toreroute our training when we hit
this point, because everybodyhits this point at a different
point in their running journey.
Some people start to hit it inperimenopause.
Some people it's aftermenopause.
Men.
Men hit this point as well.
So it's not just a female onlything, but let's start to
(06:12):
understand why this ishappening.
Why?
The stuff that used to work, whyisn't it working the same way
anymore?
So just like the link that youused to click used to work and
used to direct you to the placethat you wanted to go.
Your old training strategy.
Doesn't lead to where it used tofor a lot of people, and this is
again, this happens at variouspoints in the journey, but
(06:34):
basically what's happening atthe base level is that your
body's physiology is changing orhas changed.
So women specifically inperimenopause and menopause,
your estrogen levels aredeclining.
Your progesterone levels aredecreasing and changing, and
this is leading to elevatedlevels of cortisol, which is
(06:55):
your stress hormone.
Your body doesn't recover asquickly, so your.
Literal physiology of your bodyis not the same in your forties,
fifties, sixties, as it was whenyou were in your twenties and
thirties.
And it's not the same in yourfifties as it was in your
forties.
And it's probably not the sameat 44 as it was at 40.
Like I'm even noticing now at44, my body is much different
(07:17):
than it was just a couple ofyears ago because I am getting
closer to the age of menopauseand my hormones are more,
changing more as I get to thatpoint.
And we have all of thesephysiological changes that are
happening in our body.
We also have changes in ourlife.
Whatever's happening in yourlife right now is likely not the
same as it was five years ago,10 years ago, or maybe even just
(07:40):
six months ago, right?
Like different things pop up inour lives at different points,
and that puts stress on the bodyand emotional stress.
Psychological stress, financialstress, all of those things
still cause stress in the body.
And stress is stress.
All of it plays a role in howyour body responds to training.
So if you're just in a morestressful place in your life
(08:03):
because of outside events thatare not related to running, per
se.
It's going to make a differencein how your body responds to
running and how you feel on yourruns.
Kevin (08:12):
And it's not saying that you didn't have stressful events
in your life 10, 15 years ago.
But maybe when you're younger,you're in your low twenties,
early thirties, you're like, oh,there's still so much life left.
Maybe you're hitting a point nowwhere you're, you've got some
judgment coming on.
Where you're currently at inyour life.
When you're in your, like yourlow twenties, we got little kids
and you're starting up work andyou're trying to figure out all
(08:34):
this stuff that is a verystressful time, but you accept
that you're out of college andyou're starting all these new
things and there's a bunch ofstuff that you're trying to
juggle all the ballssimultaneously doing the best
you can.
You know that some of them aregetting dropped.
And it's just an accepted ofthat's what's happening.
But as you move into forties andfifties, you're established in
your job and you're I should bemove.
(08:54):
I should be moving to a certainposition.
I should be at this placealready.
Just having that should bethought is creating extra stress
into your life, beyond all ofthe actual physi, physiological
changes that are coming inthere.
Angie (09:07):
And so when you have thoughts like that increase your
psychological stress, that alsois increasing your cortisol
levels, which then.
Affects how your body is able torun, how your body's able to
recover from your runs.
So all of these things areconnected and I think that a lot
of times we want to see them asseparate and we wanna see
running as something that helpsus deal with stress.
(09:28):
And it does it definitely hasmental health benefits.
And at the same time it is astress on the body, especially
if you are pushing hard.
Every time you go out for a run,you're trying to run fast,
you're trying to do more becauseyou're noticing that you're not
getting the results that youused to have.
That's going to be even tougher.
And we often start to see thesechanges and maybe we can even
(09:50):
acknowledge some of thosechanges that are happening.
Okay, Ange I hear ya.
Yes.
My life does look different now.
Things look different.
My body's changing.
All right.
But oftentimes.
We can start to see thosethings, but our minds haven't
really gotten on board yet withaccepting where we are in our
life right now.
And so we have to reallyunderstand how to shift that as
(10:12):
well to a place of acceptanceand not acceptance, meaning
complacency.
And I think that's where a lotof people get misinterpret that,
right?
Because a lot of people think ifI accept something, that means
that I'm okay with it.
And that means I'm not gonna tryto change it.
And I want.
To make sure you hear me veryclearly, that acceptance does
not equal complacency, but we,and we do have to accept
(10:36):
something first before we areactually able to change it.
Kevin (10:40):
Yeah.
Acceptance in the most negativesense.
To go back to your 4 0 4,metaphor is saying oh 4, 0 4
broken link.
I guess I can never get to thatwebsite anymore.
And that's not what we'resaying.
That's not the level ofacceptance.
Acceptance isn't like brokenlink.
That website doesn't existanymore.
Angie (10:55):
Yeah.
Guess that's done with
Kevin (10:56):
like that's, that is a very sad way of looking at this
and that is clearly not howwe're gonna wrap up this episode
of and especially, and it's sad.
Yeah.
Especially
Angie (11:04):
on my website.
Site when, like when brokenlinks are on my website, I'm
like I wonder where that linkwent.
It's not oh, guess that page isgone.
That blog link no longer worksever again.
It's
Kevin (11:13):
just gone and vanished into the ether.
Yeah, it's just, there it goes.
But I, into the cloud, I, wekinda went over one.
I have a question for you,'causeI know on this, I wanna make
sure that it balances on, on menand women also.
Your type of muscle fiberschange also as you get older,
like you get more slow twitchfibers naturally as you get
older.
This works for both genders,right?
Angie (11:34):
Yes.
Kevin (11:34):
Okay, so this is also a thing that you're going up
against is when, and
Angie (11:38):
just a loss of overall lean muscle mass as well.
Kevin (11:41):
Overall loss of lean muscle mass.
Yes.
Angie (11:43):
We're losing lean muscle mass unless we are actively.
Building and trying to maintainit through strength training.
And those fibers are switchingfrom type two to type one.
Kevin (11:53):
So it's making it harder to go faster.
Because we don't have the sameamount muscle and generate power
it's harder to go faster becauseyou can't generate as much
power.
Because.
E every year of life.
You literally are just flippingover some of the muscles towards
slow twitch stuff, which is whyyou don't really see Olympic
sprinters up in their forties.
Like you can still see reallyhigh caliber distance runners.
Yeah.
As they get older.
But it doesn't really happen asmuch on the sprint side.
Angie (12:14):
Yeah.
And that's why a lot of thepeople that used to be on the
track tend to get longer andlonger distances as they get
older as well.
Exactly.
Kevin (12:22):
Yeah, because you just you can't, you also see some
people move from like the 10 Kmarathon and then they head into
trail running
Angie (12:28):
the 10 K marathon,
Kevin (12:29):
10 K or marathon.
Angie (12:31):
Oh, I didn't hear the, or
Kevin (12:32):
I, I had a slash in my head.
I made a chopping.
I know.
We just, it looks like a, youdid
Angie (12:37):
make a chopping.
It's on a podcast, but
Kevin (12:39):
just so everybody can understand, I didn't say 10 K
Marathon, like those areequivalent to each other.
I put a slash with my hand.
Yeah.
Like your
Angie (12:47):
coworker that asks you, how was your 10 K marathon this
weekend?
Kevin (12:50):
Yes.
My 10 K marathon.
No for people who are doing a 10k slash marathon, is that better
for you?
Maybe move on to the trailsbecause even if the distance is
the same or even shorter, it'spossible that just because of
the trail thing there's a slowereffort level to, or there's a
slower pace to it because of thevariation of terrain.
Angie (13:08):
And so what we don't want.
You all to follow and the trapthat we don't want you to fall
in is there's a couple trapsthat we can tend to fall in
here.
Number one is thinking that thisis just the way that it is.
I guess I'm just broken, or I'mjust, I guess I'm just getting
older and I just have to acceptit and there's nothing that I
can do about it.
We do not want you to fall intothat trap because that is not
(13:30):
true.
What is, but we, the second trapthat we don't want you to fall
into is.
Just trying to do the same thingand trying to do more of it, or
trying to do it harder or tryingto hit enter with more force to
show the computer whose boss.
Kevin (13:44):
I might have just typed the website in wrong.
Maybe I should just try typingthe website again.
No, you type the website justfine and so
Angie (13:51):
you delete it and then you start typing it and then URL
just generates itselfautomatically and you hit enter
again.
Yeah, but and don't actuallytype in the whole thing.
No,
Kevin (14:00):
But I hit enter with.
Force, that's the key again, tolet the computer know whose
boss.
Whose boss.
Yeah.
Angie (14:06):
So if you're just trying to repeat the same methods,
adding more mileage.
Restricting your calories, notfueling your body.
Pushing yourself harder, tryingto go faster on all of your
runs, hoping that it's going tostart working again.
Pushing enter with lots of forceto show the computer whose boss.
It's just going to lead to morefrustration.
(14:27):
Injury burnout and more stressand most likely injury.
That's gonna be a big time thatpeople start to get injured,
especially as they get older.
Kevin (14:34):
'cause it's not just repeating the same methods, it's
trying the same method, butliterally with more force.
That's why like I do this Ijoke, but I literally do this.
I'm like, maybe if I hit theenter key harder.
But people do this, like itsounds silly to that hitting the
enter key would do something.
'cause obviously that's notaffecting the website's on a
different place.
But people do this with theirrunning all the time.
(14:57):
They're like, this method hasalways worked for me.
So maybe if I just do the samestyle of training, but up the
volume, up the intensity.
But I generally am doing thesame thing.
I just turn the dial up just alittle bit more and turning the
dial up a little bit more on amethod that's not working for
you is a hundred percent goingto.
Suck all of the fun out of it,and like you said, most likely
(15:18):
gonna set you up for an injury.
But it's also gonna suck the funout of it before you even get
hurt.
And once you're hurt, you knowthat an injured runner is just
like the least fun person thatyou could possibly be around.
Angie (15:27):
Yeah, I might know about that from experience, being your
wife and all, and I'm justsaying, I, I love you.
Kevin (15:35):
Maybe it's more than just pushing the enter key really
hard.
And it's possible that I havereflected some of this myself
over the years,
Angie (15:41):
quite possibly.
So we had a client that came tous a couple years ago and.
He was trying to improve hishalf marathon time and he was, I
believe in his forties orfifties at the time.
I can't remember exactly'cause Idon't always know people's exact
ages, but he was running a halfmarathon every other day trying
(16:01):
to break two hours and he wasunable to break two hours.
He had been working at it formonths and months, I don't
remember exactly how long, butit was for an extended, it was
at least three to six months.
And he would just go out andwhen he came to us, he was, he
told me this and I said, wait.
What you are running a halfmarathon every other day.
And he's yeah, and I don't knowwhy I'm getting close.
I'm at like 2 0 5, 2 0 4, like 20 2, but I'm like stuck right
(16:24):
there.
I keep trying to push harder andI can't break two hours and
through our method and ourprogram, we put him on a plan
that changed what he was doingand not have, so we really
pulled back a lot on hismileage.
Because he was in, in thatmindset, because, and it's not
his fault, he didn't really knowany better.
He figured, like a lot ofrunners do.
(16:45):
They figure, okay, we're runningis pretty simple.
And when you start running, whenyou start increasing your
mileage and when you startpushing harder, it works like it
works for quite a while until itstops working.
And that.
Point always comes, it's just amatter of when it comes for each
person.
And so he was at that point, andhe had been at that point for
(17:05):
quite a while.
He was at that plateau to thepoint where he wanted to
actually figure out what wasgoing on and reach out for help.
And so we took him, we put himon a plan, and we pulled back
his total mileage by quite a lotand put him on.
What we do with all of ourathletes, which is a more, more
polarized training schedule,where your easy runs are truly
(17:27):
easy, and then you have harderdays where you're doing speed
play and harder trainingsessions.
And then of course.
Complimenting that with somestrength training and some other
things to make sure that hestays strong and injury free.
And after, I wanna say 12 or 16weeks, I'm pretty sure it was
after like his first trainingcycle.
He dropped 15 minutes off of histime and ran a 1 45.
Kevin (17:49):
Yeah, every distance run that we had, like the long runs
on the weekend over, thatwasn't, there was no attempts to
break two on those.
It was just, you're gonna goout, you're gonna cover the
mileage, it's gonna be nice andcomfortable.
Angie (17:58):
And yeah, I was having.
So much more fun.
So much more fun.
He was like, he loved running,like he came to us loving,
running.
He was starting to get veryfrustrated with it, but he
started to enjoy his runs somuch more,
Kevin (18:10):
and so he came to us before the joy was completely
sucked out.
Yeah.
Because he was on the verge oflosing the joy.
And it was like, all right,we're gonna need to turn your,
like your Tuesday half marathoninto five miles at an easy pace.
And it was very confusing atfirst.
Yeah.
Because it didn't make anysense.
Angie (18:23):
And it was very uncomfortable for him because,
and again, this go goes back tothat mindset piece.
And I, a lot of ladies in, inthe program inside of running
Reconnected, when we start totalk about nutrition, they also
come up again.
It's this mental block and thismental wall.
When I tell them you're noteating enough food, like you
actually need to eat more food.
And there's this huge blockbecause for decades they've
(18:47):
believed the lie that the foodindustry has told us about how
we need to restrict.
We need to eat less, we need tocut our calories, calories in,
calories out, all the bolognathat we are fed.
Kevin (18:59):
You shouldn't eat bologna.
Also,
Angie (19:02):
it's highly processed.
That there is a, there's a bigmental block to actually eating
more food.
Just like for a lot of runners,there's a big mental block for
decreasing mileage because itseems counterintuitive.
It seems if I do that, I'm gonnago backwards and nobody wants to
go backwards.
And so it is a leap of faith.
And we do ask our athletes totrust us, like there is a trust
(19:24):
factor that needs to be thereand to be built for them to
actually get on board with.
The things that are truly goingto help them.
Kevin (19:31):
But here's the thing is we've got a couple different
scenarios that we're talkingabout here.
Obviously, there's most peoplethat we're talking about fall
into the category of runnersover 40, but this whole idea of
a training plan that simply hasstopped working for you happens
for runners at much younger agesalso.
That's true.
Yeah.
There are runners that who havea running age, like the time,
the amount of years that you'vebeen running.
(19:52):
Yeah.
Can start building up.
Like I was in my mid twentiesand I was like, okay, I can't
just keep training in the samemethod.
It's not working for me.
And I had to rethink how I wastraining.
My new method of training wasnot necessarily the most
successful either, as Iultimately ended up in a
hospital with seizures.
But I did still have torearrange.
I've gone through this a fewtimes.
Yeah.
To try and figure out what worksbest for me.
(20:14):
So personally, I.
I can get stuck in things if Ican take a moment and step back
and see it's not working, I canusually, from my running
perspective, I don't Clinging tothings.
Yeah.
A lot of runners clinging to theway that it has been.
Even if they can see that it'snot making the progress, they're
like, I know, but this hasalways worked, so I have to stay
(20:35):
onto it.
Yeah.
Because trying something new.
In running or in any avenue oflife, trying something new when
you don't know what the resultsare gonna be, seems a little bit
scary.
Angie (20:44):
Yeah, and I think that also there are periods of
plateau in our running journeythat are very normal, and it can
be a frustrating thing forrunners because we as runners
want to see progress.
And so when we do hit a plateau,it can be frustrating.
So really this applies mostly toyou if you have noticed that a
(21:07):
plateau or a decline that islasting more than three to six
months, would you agree?
Kevin (21:12):
Yes.
Because plateaus are great.
Yeah.
Sometimes the plateau isliterally just the spring of
your training just coiling upand it's gonna lead to a
breakthrough, right?
It's when you really seem stuckon that load.
Plateau for so long, or you'vebeen sloping downward for
several months, that's the signthat maybe you need to actually
flip the direction becausesometimes plateaus happen.
(21:33):
Yeah.
Like you don't your fitness.
Yeah.
And I
Angie (21:35):
wanna make sure that we like point that out.
That's like plateaus are normal.
Kevin (21:38):
Yeah.
That's a really good thing thatyou pointed out because.
We see that.
Yeah.
Like we get clients that comeinto us all the time that are
like, they've jumped from oneonline training program to the
next.
Every time it looks like theyget to a plateau, they just leap
to a different system.
They change.
Yeah.
And you have to stick with amethod and let it play its way
out, especially as you move fromone to the next.
If you flip methods, you'regoing to see results rather
(22:01):
quickly and then get ontoanother plateau, and you have to
get through that plateau toreally reap the full benefits of
whatever method.
As long as it's a worthwhilemethod, as long as it's not
getting you hurt, it probably isgonna take a little bit of time
to reap the full.
Benefits of it,
Angie (22:15):
right?
'cause a lot of times you can dothings and not see the benefits
for a while.
'cause your body is changing,your body's adapting, and there
are changes that are going onunderneath the surface that you
can't see yet.
And then all of a sudden there'sa breakthrough.
And we like to talk inside ofour team with our clients about
the magic.
Like there are people that comeon our coaching calls every week
(22:36):
and they say I don't understand.
Like I am running.
I'm not, I've never raced mygoal pace.
I'm not, I've never done thisbefore.
I've never run this fulldistance, especially the people
training for a marathon.
I've never run 26.2 miles.
The highest I've gone in mytraining is 18 or 20 miles.
You're telling me this is justgonna happen and it's yes.
There's a magic that happens onrace day when you train.
(22:58):
Properly when you follow awell-designed personalized
training plan, when you taperand you trust the training, that
there is that adaptation becauseit takes your body time to adapt
to the training.
So it doesn't matter necessarilywhat you do in the week or two
leading up to the training.
A lot of times those.
(23:19):
Last couple of weeks of yourtraining plan right before your
race have little to no effect onhow you actually perform.
But the 10 weeks, the 12 weeks,the 16 weeks before that have a
massive effect.
Your body just needed time toadapt and actually absorb all of
that training.
Kevin (23:35):
Yeah.
I always like to tell peoplethat like the last week of
training before your race, allyou can really do is screw
things up with that week.
You're not putting in a work ofthat workout on Tuesday of the
race on Sunday is not doinganything for your race on
Sunday.
Unless you overdo it, hurtyourself and exhaust yourself on
Tuesday.
Yeah.
Unless you shoot your shot atyour race on Tuesday workout.
(23:58):
Because you've started yourtaper and so you feel great and
it's a workout and you're like,oh, I feel really good.
I should crush it in thisworkout.
And you overdo it and you runyour race on Tuesday, even
though your race is actually onSunday.
That happens all the time, butyou're not really getting the
physical or mental benefits fromthe workout during race week.
Angie (24:17):
Yeah.
So if you do find yourself on aplateau that's lasting more than
three to six months, this iswhen.
You have to look for the 4 0 4or I shouldn't say the'cause.
The 4 0 4 is not really theredirect.
The 4 0 4 is what you're hittingwhere when you're hitting that
plateau or you're seeing thatdecline, that broken link, and
so we have to find the new path.
(24:37):
You need to find the new linkthat's going to actually direct
you to the place that you wannago, which is that training
strategy that's aligned with whoyou are now, not who you were.
Last year, five years ago, 10years ago.
It's who you are, the body thatyou have right now, the
lifestyle that you're currentlyliving right now, and of course,
(24:57):
who you want to be in thefuture.
I think that there's a lot oftimes we get this messed up
because we base our currentactions on the past instead of
the future because our brainknows the past.
There's evidence there.
The future is very unknown.
But what we want to do is reallylook ahead to the future, to the
person that we want to becomeand base our training.
(25:19):
On that person, on, on what thatperson would be doing at this
point in their journey.
So don't hear me incorrectly.
I'm not saying we need to trainas if that we already have the
abilities of that person becausewe don't like, that's what
training is for.
We don't wanna just ramp up ourmileage and start running, 50
miles a week if you're currentlyrunning 10, even though that
(25:41):
marathon runner that you want tobe.
In six months is running 50miles a week.
That's not where you are today.
So I'm not saying to trainexactly.
As far as like the numbers andthe metrics go, like that person
would train or the paces thatperson would train, but to start
with the mentality that personwould have and approach training
in the same way with where youare right now.
(26:02):
Does that make sense?
Kevin (26:03):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think one of the biggestthings on this is less grinding
out workouts.
When you're in your twenties,that's so hard because sometimes
grinding is fun.
Angie (26:14):
And not only is it fun, but like it's gotten results in
the past.
And I think about some of thetraining that I used to do eight
to 10 years ago, 10 years ago.
Is that right?
And
Kevin (26:24):
it feels remarkably rewarding.
Angie (26:26):
10.
Kevin (26:27):
Huh.
It, but I, okay, so let me talkfor a second here.
Sorry.
Angie (26:31):
I'm like re goop.
We're grouping,
Kevin (26:33):
it feels so rewarding.
Seven or eight to grind out abrutal workout.
Yeah.
There are some workouts that Idid back in my teens that you
finish it and you're just likea.
Puddle on the track and you'relike, oh God, that was so good.
If I finished a workout and Iwas a puddle on the track, I
would be worthless for runningfor the next week and a half.
Yeah, like I would just have towalk around maybe an easy run,
(26:55):
walk, jog kind of thing.
Like I just don't have theability to go that deep.
Yeah.
On that.
Fast of a track workout anymore.
You have to be very intentionalabout the effort that you're
willing to expend in any givenworkout.
The whole idea, and this goesfor training at all levels, all
ages of always leave one rep inreserve.
(27:15):
You never want to go all induring a workout.
You always wanna just have alittle bit left over so that
you're, you don't just sodeplete yourself.
You leave an extra couple ofreps in reserve as we get a
little older.
Yeah, because it, the recoverychanges, right?
So you want more than one repleft.
You want a couple?
Angie (27:32):
And you don't have to go to that level to gain the same
benefits anymore either.
Also true, because a lot of ushave been running for a while.
There are some people that arenew to running and that's
fantastic and we're here for youalso, and I love that you're
here and you're listening tothis podcast and there's a lot
of people that have been runningfor decades.
Your legs, your body knowsmileage, it knows speed work.
(27:54):
It knows a lot of these things,and so you need less.
Volume and less intensity inorder to reap the same levels of
benefits.
Kevin (28:05):
You also don't need as much mental grit.
Yeah.
Training.
Yeah.
If you've done it already.
Like you need enough, you needto periodically have a workout
where you push yourself reallyhard.
Yeah.
And you can be like, oh yeah.
I remember what this feels like.
I'm good.
Angie (28:19):
And that can, because that will allow you to tap into
it.
Yes.
'cause it's already there.
Because
Kevin (28:23):
it's there.
Yeah.
You've trained it so much, youjust have to remember that it's
there.
Yeah.
Remember how to access it.
But you don't have to dwell init.
Yeah.
On a regular basis.
Every single week have a superdraining workout where you're
like, oh man, I really had togut it out at the end.
You just, you don't need it.
Yeah.
Every once in a while you needto.
Try it.
Yeah.
To make sure that it's stillthere.
(28:44):
That when you try and hit the,in, like the starter on a grill
outside, make sure that starterstill actually does something.
'cause sometimes it kinda wearsout over time.
Make sure that it's stillsparking from time to time.
Angie (28:55):
Yeah.
And we do need intense sessionsand so make sure that you're not
hearing that.
Either like we do need to havehigh intensity sessions as we
get older.
Like they become even moreimportant because of what we
were mentioning before with theloss of our fast twitch muscle
fibers with the loss of leanmuscle mass.
When we do those higherintensity sessions sporadically,
(29:15):
that's the key sporadically withlots of plenty of recovery.
That's actually very good forus, but we don't need them in
the same volume and in the samefrequency that we used to maybe
do.
Another thing that comes to mindtoo is this idea of.
The things and the shifts thatwe have to make of less
depletion, more restoration,like more recovery time even.
(29:37):
You were talking about yourworkouts that used to leave you.
In a puddle on the track, buteven just sleep, right?
Like we had our retreat thisweekend, which was amazing.
Shout out to all of our amazingseven amazing women that came
from all over North America.
This was an internationalretreat thanks to our Canadian
(29:59):
that came down to Florida tojoin us.
And it was amazing.
We had women from.
Literally seven different sixdifferent states and Canada.
Yep.
To come down to join us, whichwas so unbelievable.
And we stayed up late,especially that last night.
The last night.
Of the retreat after the ladiesleft the retreat house, we had
to clean up from dinner and, geteverything packed up.
(30:21):
'cause we had to check out thenext morning pretty early and I
had to take my friend to theairport and everything, but and
I had a friend come in fromNebraska to help out with the
retreat as well, which wasamazing.
And.
We stayed up really late thatnight.
We stayed up till 1 30, 2o'clock in the morning and I, we
had to wake up at five somethingto go to the airport.
That's not a lot of sleep.
(30:42):
Like that whole day I was wipedout.
I was exhausted that drive home.
Kevin and I, like Kevin starteddriving and I fell asleep in the
passenger seat and he's I got,I'm done.
Can you take over?
Yep, no problem.
And then I started driving andyou passed out in the passenger
seat.
Kevin (30:58):
I literally drove for as long as I possibly could.
Yeah.
And then when we stopped forlunch, I looked at you and just
I'm tapping out.
Yeah.
I can't do it.
Angie (31:04):
Yeah.
And that's what we do.
I'm gonna
Kevin (31:05):
drive off the side of the road.
This is not safe for the family.
Not a good idea.
I'm tapping out.
Angie (31:09):
And so then, and then we got home and basically unpacked
all of the cold, the coolers ofall the cold stuff that needed
to go into the fridge and wentand took a two hour nap.
Yep.
Because we were just wiped.
And that was, a combination ofall of the things that happened
that weekend, but also the factthat we didn't get enough sleep
in our bodies when we're older.
We need more sleep, we need morerecovery.
(31:31):
And I'm still a little kind of alittle slow on the uptake.
My speed work this morning waspretty good, actually.
I was actually pretty.
Happy with it.
I was surprised that I washitting some of the paces that I
was hitting, but I was good.
And so that's just again, proofthat we need to start doing
things a little bit differently.
And that also includes sleep andrecovery.
Kevin (31:50):
You were good on the paces, but were your effort
levels higher than they, theyshould have been.
Angie (31:54):
No, that's what I mean is 'cause I was going by effort.
Like I wasn't trying to, andthings
Kevin (31:57):
were, things were going pretty good.
Yeah.
Angie (31:58):
Like I wasn't trying to hit specific paces.
The first rep was definitely,like my legs were pretty tired.
Especially since I liftedyesterday, but in my, I did leg
day yesterday I.
But in my leg session, I, again,I'm maturing and getting wiser
with age.
I cut back on all of my weightsfor my normal leg day and did
less than I normally do becauseI knew that I was tired and not
(32:20):
recovered well from the weekend.
So I, except
Kevin (32:22):
for the weighted vest box jumps that you added in,
Angie (32:24):
I did not do box jumps.
Aren't you proud of me?
But yeah, so getting back tosome of these.
New paths and the redirects thatwe need in our life.
Kevin was saying, like lessgrinding, more intentional
workouts, making sure that ourworkouts all have a purpose.
That our easy days are actuallyeasy.
Our hard days are hard.
The other big shift that we needto make, which I alluded to.
(32:47):
When we talked about calorierestriction is this idea of,
from wanting to be thin, towanting to be strong.
Because when we focus on tryingto be thin and lose weight, it
often leads to restriction andover exercising, and that is
going to decrease our leanmuscle mass.
It's going to decrease our bonedensity, it's going to lead to
(33:08):
hormonal issues and thyroidproblems and all sorts of things
down the chain.
Whereas if we focus on beingstrong and we really work our
body to like with resistancetraining, with easy runs and
hard runs, making sure thatwe're fueling our body and
getting enough protein andcarbohydrates, getting enough
sleep, and really focusing onimproving the strength of our
(33:31):
bodies, we will.
Get faster or we will improveour endurance just by shifting
the focus of what we're doing inour training.
And that's a really powerfulshift that I love seeing the
women inside of RunningReconnected make.
And when they come in, they'relike, oh my gosh, this is such a
game changer.
Kevin (33:48):
Yeah.
The, this shift from thin tostrong and the whole idea of
lack of calorie restrictions, Ithink that it played out really
well at the retreat also.
It was really nice.
There was a lot of good food.
Yeah.
And people were like, oh yeah,I'm gonna need that now I'm
gonna have a snack.
And there's, there was nojudgment around any of it.
Yeah.
Because everybody was so focusedon making sure that they were
taking care of themselves.
(34:08):
When you step back from retreatlife and there's other people
and you're like, oh, I don'tknow what that person's gonna
think.
It's really irrelevant what thatperson thinks.
You need to take care of yourbody.
Yeah.
And more than you need to takecare of what anybody else is
thinking about your body.
You need to take care of whatyou think about it.
And everybody is going tooperate their best when they're
operating filled, fueled, andstrong.
Angie (34:30):
Yeah.
And even at the retreat, if you,if the ladies were sitting there
and they were hungry the wholetime because they didn't want to
eat or they didn't wanna looklike they were.
Overeating or being littlepiggies or whatever, like some
of them were joking around.
But if they were hungry, theyweren't gonna be able to
participate as fully in theactivities either.
We went on group runs and wewent kayaking, and we did mental
(34:54):
performance and trainingsessions, and we did yoga on the
beach.
Like it was just such anincredible like soul filling
weekend.
But you can't do that whenyou're hungry.
Like going back to Maslow'shierarchy of needs, if you all
are familiar with that pyramid,we have to fulfill our need for
survival first, which is fuelingour body before we're able to
(35:15):
get into building relationshipsor looking at the deeper purpose
for our life.
You know that tip of thatpyramid is self-actualization
and really.
Contributing to the world andwanting to make a difference
with our lives.
We can't do that when we'rehungry.
We can't do that when we are notsleeping well, when we are just
(35:35):
exhausted and not fueled.
And it's really hard to think,to maintain and to build
relationships, to be a goodparent or a good spouse, or a
good daughter or son.
Like all of that becomes harderwhen we're not taking care of
those needs.
And I dunno, that's a little bitof a tangent, but it is a very
(35:56):
important one.
But with a
Kevin (35:57):
takeaway message of go have a snack it's important to
eat.
Angie (36:01):
Yeah, there's one of my favorite.
Instagrammers, her handle is bigtime adulting, I think is what
it's called.
She's hilarious and that's oneof her things.
So she's, she had a viral reel.
She's had quite a few I think atthis point.
But one of the ways that I foundher is when she was like, Hey
ladies, are you, like how areyour cortisol levels?
Are you fueling your body?
(36:21):
And she like just went off aboutall of the things that social
media tells us that we need tobe doing to take care of
ourselves and how ridiculous allof the advice is and how
contradictory a lot of it is.
And she's hilarious'cause shedoes it in very like deadpan
style, but she then sometimeswill.
Talk to the camera and go off onher little rant, and then she'll
end by poking the camera and belike, go have a snack.
Snacks are good.
(36:42):
Which is so great.
Kevin (36:43):
Which is a hundred percent true.
Yeah.
Like it, it's important to putfuel in your body.
Angie (36:48):
Yeah.
Your brain needs carbs.
But yeah, these are all, thestories that we tell ourself,
like the stories that we've beenconditioned to believe growing
up.
Those stories are starting tobreak, and they're starting to
be broken.
And not only because of thephase of life that we're in, but
also because of the new researchand the science that's coming
out.
That is showing us howdysfunctional some of these old
(37:10):
ways of thinking and old ways oftraining are, and how much
better we can feel and how muchbetter we can perform in our
forties, fifties, sixties, inall these later decades of our
life if we're just taking careof our body a little bit
differently.
Kevin (37:23):
You.
You point out some very goodimport importance information
there of the new research that'scoming out.
Forget the training method thatworked for you in the past, and
now you're a little bit olderand it's not working.
Yeah.
What about the fact thattraining method is simply not
the training method that anybodyuses anymore, regardless of age?
What about the advances intraining itself?
Yeah, not just trainingdifferently because of your age,
(37:43):
which is one thing, but trainingdifferently because.
Everybody is trainingdifferently at all ages, and
they've figured out better waysto do this.
Yeah.
Fasted training used to be athing, like fasted training was
a push back in like the ninetiesand extended into the early two
thousands.
It's just not a thing anymore.
Angie (38:01):
And there are.
Our men can get away with itmore than women can.
Like
Kevin (38:05):
three men in the entire world can get away with it.
Angie (38:08):
But more than women can.
Kevin (38:09):
No.
Women can get away with it.
And there's three dudes andthree dudes and there's, and
none of them are on Instagram.
Yeah.
There's a thousand dudes onInstagram that are still
suggesting that their fastedtraining is working for them.
But they're all on human growthhormone.
Yeah.
So it's not the fasted training.
Angie (38:25):
Yeah.
And one of the things that we.
Really dug into at the retreatthis weekend were the stories
that we tell ourselves and howwe are all telling ourselves
stories every single day.
This is just what our braindoes.
It's very normal.
There's sentences in our braincalled thoughts.
Those thoughts turn intobeliefs.
These beliefs we create storiesour brain loves.
(38:46):
Stories.
And if we don't know the answer,we make up an answer.
Like literally, that's what ourbrain does because our brain
can't deal with open loops.
It has to close the loop, and sowe have.
We tell ourselves stories and alot of these stories we've been
telling ourselves for decadessince, even since we were
children.
And we don't even realize thatthese are the stories that we're
telling ourselves.
(39:07):
And so the big thing that we didover the retreat weekend, and we
dig into this too, inside of ourcoaching program, is finding
those stories that.
And then examining them andsaying, okay, is this story
leading me to what I want?
Is this giving me the resultthat I want?
And if the answer is no if theanswer is yes, go ahead and keep
(39:28):
it.
If that's a good story that'sserving you well in your life
and you like it, fantastic, keepit.
But if it's not leading to theplace where.
You want to, the results thatyou want to, the feelings that
you want, then it's time tochange it.
And that's where it can getreally exciting to start
rewriting and decidingconsciously and choosing what
(39:48):
story you want to step into.
And a lot of people in thisphase of life believe that their
best running days are behindthem.
They believe that I'll never befast.
To get, it's only, I'm justgonna get slower from here.
That's a story that you'retelling yourself.
And I, there is plenty of peopleout there and evidence that is
not true, that get faster asthat they, as they get older,
there's, you're gonna hear somestories here.
(40:10):
In the coming weeks of somereally inspiring, amazing
runners that we've been had theprivilege to work with that
started running in their latefifties and now running half
marathons, ultra marathons ininner sixties.
There's amazing things thatpeople can do, but you have to
start believing.
A different story first.
Kevin (40:30):
Yeah.
The whole idea of your bestrunning days behind you.
I would've liked to havefinished higher up in my last
race.
I always wanna finish higher up.
You
Angie (40:37):
finished sixth.
Kevin (40:38):
I know, and it's always nicer to finish.
Higher up always.
But at the end of the race, thelast two people that passed me
were older than me by a decade.
That is a really nice way torewrite a story when the guy in
his mid fifties just casuallytrots right past you and goes
looking good.
I'm gonna try and keep up withthis guy.
Yeah.
And I tried to for two minutesand then he just pulled away.
(41:01):
I'm like, all right, so bestrunning days.
Clearly not behind me.
Look at this guy.
Go.
Angie (41:05):
Yeah.
Because he's now inspiration andproof of what's possible.
Kevin (41:08):
Exactly right.
It's proof of concept,
Angie (41:09):
and I think that's so powerful.
'cause a lot of times when wesee other people, we say, oh,
it's possible for them, but notfor me.
Or like they're a freak ofnature.
Or we make these excuses of whatmakes them different from us.
But what if they're not?
What if they're proof?
That is possible for you also.
And I love the what ifs, right?
I think that the what ifsoftentimes our brain likes to
(41:32):
use them against us and go intothe negative of what if this
doesn't turn out right?
What if I get hurt?
What if it goes, goes bad Andyou can use those what ifs in
such a powerful way, just in theopposite direction, what if this
went really well?
What if I ran faster than I everhave before?
What if I didn't have pain?
What if I decided that this painwasn't serving me and I released
(41:53):
it and.
Started writing a new story formyself, what would that be like?
And we can start thinking moreand expanding our possibilities,
which is what Kevin talked aboutat the retreat, which is such a,
an amazing talk that he gave aswell.
But again, it goes back to whatdo you wanna believe about
yourself?
What do you wanna believe aboutyour running, moving forward?
And I think that's reallypowerful.
(42:14):
If you believe that your bestrunning days are behind you and
that you're gonna get slower,what will your running be like
in five years versus if youbelieve.
My best running days are aheadof me.
Then what will your running belike in five years?
Just that one choice on the waythat you're gonna look at your
training can make a world ofdifference.
Kevin (42:34):
Yeah.
There's a beautiful country songout there.
When you start going off on allof the what ifs there, I.
I think the title of the song isWhat If, but it's the whole idea
that her outlook is what if thisdoesn't work out?
What if we break up again?
What if this goes south?
What if?
And he flips it and goes, butwhat if this was made to be?
What if this was the bestrelationship that you could
possibly have?
(42:55):
What if this is what we've beenwaiting for?
Is
Angie (42:58):
that the one that's what if this was your last first
kiss?
Kevin (43:01):
No, that's a different song, but that's also a good
one.
Yeah.
So it's just, it's a great Whatif, so on, it being April 1st,
it's also, what if I didn't askthat girl to turn around her
clutter ring?
So many years ago back incollege,
Angie (43:15):
oh my God, it's April 1st.
I know.
Kevin (43:17):
It's our dating anniversary.
It's our dating of many years.
Our
Angie (43:19):
dating.
Oh my gosh.
I totally didn't.
Just remember that, but becauseyou remembered and thank you for
reminding me.
So what story are you tellingyourself?
What is the broken link that youneed to reroute?
What is the new link that youneed to find?
And understanding that what gotyou here won't get you there?
(43:39):
That is a phrase that my coachuses a lot in referring to
business and life.
But it's true.
What worked up until now is not.
Going to be the thing thatcontinues to take you to where
you want to go.
And so even though it worked inthe past, it might stop working.
It might not work as well.
So you need to find the new linkin your life, and that starts
(44:00):
with the way that you'rethinking about your training.
It starts with the way thetraining sessions that you're
doing, how you're training islaid out and structured.
Your nutrition, your sleep, yourrecovery, all the things.
So what.
Broken link do you have in yourtraining and your life that you
need to fix and that you need tofind a new link for?
Kevin (44:20):
Yeah.
And that new link might be verydifferent.
Yeah.
And some of you may bestruggling, but it is real life
runners.
There's two Ls in the middle ofthat.
If you're typing it in, there'stwo Ls.
And then push the ender buttonreal firmly, which show the
computer whose boss, but itmight be a very different
website.
There might be a completelydifferent address.
And that's where you need tooverhaul the training.
The intensity, the overallvolume, the nutrition, the
(44:42):
stress, the whole lifestyle.
It could be a whole overhaul.
Angie (44:45):
Yeah.
It's like the new.
Rebranding of our program.
Like the program used to becalled Press Play and now it's
called Running Reconnected.
So we have to go in and find allthose links and change all of
those links.
Kevin (44:57):
It's a whole different address.
It's
Angie (44:58):
a whole different address.
And so it's important for us tofind those links.
And the thing is, you might notfind'em all right away.
Also, there might be thosesneaky, hidden ones that stay
broken for a little while untilyou find them.
And then you change those aswell.
Kevin (45:11):
Yeah.
They show up at like mile 20 ofa marathon.
You're like, ah.
I did not think that one wasstill there.
Yeah.
Angie (45:16):
So I would love to hear your news story, like where is
your broken link?
What is the redirect that youneed right now?
I would love for you to send mea DM on Instagram.
We're at real life runners onInstagram.
Send me a dm, let me know.
What is the thing that you'restruggling with right now?
I would love to connect with youmore.
We also have a five day runningchallenge coming up in a few
(45:37):
weeks.
We're gonna be opening upenrollment for that, but if you
want some help right now.
Shoot me a DM on Instagram or weare also running a free class.
You can check ourwebsite@realliferunners.com
slash strong if you want to getin our next free class as well.
So if you found this episodehelpful, we would love for you
to leave us a review.
(45:59):
On your favorite podcast player,share it with a friend so that
we can help more runners to feelgood, feel more empowered, both
now and in the future.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
404.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.