May 1, 2025 • 48 mins
Have you noticed that running can sometimes start to feel like a chore? If that sounds familiar, this episode is for you. Today we're talking about why this happens—and more importantly, how to reignite that inner spark. We unpack the common culprits behind burnout, from overtraining and life overload to the hormonal changes that often surface for women in their 40s and beyond. If you've been feeling stuck, unmotivated, or simply not yourself on the run, you're not alone—and there is a path back to joy.
You'll hear real talk about reshaping your goals, giving yourself permission to evolve as a runner, and trying new things—like switching up your terrain, revisiting your favorite routes with fresh eyes, or simply letting go of old definitions of success. We share practical tips to support both your physical and emotional health, because running well means feeling well, too.
Whether you’re coming back from burnout or just need a nudge in the right direction, this episode will help you feel seen, supported, and ready to lace up with renewed intention.
02:06 Understanding the Loss of Spark in Running
03:45 The Reality of Motivation and Running
08:30 From 'Should' to 'Want': Shifting Your Running Mindset
18:46 Physical and Emotional Burnout in Running
22:26 Hormone Shifts and Running
24:13 Training Cycles and Seasons
26:33 Managing Stress and Burnout
37:20 Evolving Your Runner Identity
46:45 Reconnecting with Joy in Running
48:01 Join the Running Reignited Challenge
Ready to reignite that spark? Join the Running Reignited challenge today at https://www.realliferunners.com/challenge We start on May 12th!
Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
If running has started to feel more like a chore instead
(00:02):
of a passion, you're not alone.
Today we're talking about whythat happens and exactly how you
can reignite your spark forrunning.
So stay tuned.
(00:33):
What's up runners?
Welcome to the podcast.
Today we're gonna be talkingabout what it really means when
your motivation fades.
There's so many people out therethat just think I need more
motivation, and today we'regonna talk about why that's not
the case and how you canreignite that spark of running
and some of the most simple andpowerful shifts that can help
(00:54):
you fall back in love withrunning again.
If you seem to have lost yourspark, which actually.
Lines me up perfectly to let youknow that we are running our
brand new five day challengeagain.
And yes, I'm gonna drop it rightin here.
Kevin's like shaking his headover here.
He's like, where are you goingwith this Anang?
The five day challenge is backthat.
(01:15):
Is what I'm, where I'm going andI'm super excited about it.
May 12th through the 16th, we'rebringing back the five day
challenge and we are renamingit, running reignited because we
are here in these five days.
Going to help you reignite yourspark, your joy for running to
figure out where you are rightnow.
What's gotten in your way If youdon't have the results that you
(01:38):
want or you just, maybe thingsare going pretty well for you
and you just wanna get better,all of this is going to help you
in the five day challenge to seewhere you are and move to where
you wanna be.
So I'm super excited about that.
So registration is now live whenthis episode, is released.
So you can head over to reallife runners.com/challenge and
(02:00):
sign up for our five daychallenge, which starts on May
12th.
Kevin (02:04):
That sounds fantastic.
I like where you went with that.
right off the bat, let's, it'sgonna be a great challenge.
It's like you've been excitedfor this thing for weeks
building to this challenge, soit's
Angie (02:12):
cause I've been building it.
Kevin (02:13):
Yes, I know.
And but Right.
So it's
Angie (02:14):
like very exciting when it gets to be actually released
and experienced by people.
Kevin (02:18):
Yeah.
where everybody else gets to seethe same level of excitement
that you are bringing into it.
'cause you are sparking overhere.
But what we're talking about isspark.
What happens when.
You lose the spark.
I got a little nervous.
I'm not gonna lie.
You're like, I wrote an episodeabout losing the spark and how
it might be inevitable for somepeople, and it's a normalized
thing.
It's gonna be okay, and here'sways we can handle if that spark
(02:39):
is lost.
I'm like, it's what messages areyou trying to send here?
What?
Angie (02:42):
What's.
Spark.
Do you think I lost?
Kevin (02:44):
no.
We're all just about the lo, thelove and joy of running, so
we're good.
We're just, it's a motivation inrunning kind of thing.
Don't
Angie (02:49):
worry.
Love my spark is still a flame.
Excellent.
Is that a flame?
Is what we're
Kevin (02:54):
going with.
Angie (02:55):
That's, that shows you guys that this is not a scripted
podcast in any way.
Kevin (03:00):
You don't have a flame written in the outline
Angie (03:02):
here or my.
Spark is a flame.
That doesn't even make sense.
Yeah, no, it's beautiful.
Like sparks can't be a flame.
Like the spark is what causesthe flame.
Kevin (03:09):
Excellent,
Angie (03:09):
right?
Yes.
My sparks are still sparking foryou.
How's that?
Your sparks are arcing.
Sparking.
Kevin (03:15):
There you go.
My
Angie (03:15):
sparks are sparking.
Yeah.
Kevin (03:18):
Sorry.
I was going with the car analogywhere you start arking.
Nevermind.
Angie (03:21):
What?
What do you mean arcing?
It's where the,
Kevin (03:24):
the terminals of the battery connect.
You get the lightning shotacross the nevermind.
Oh,
Angie (03:28):
okay.
It's a science.
It's a science thing, things.
You're so cute.
Thank you.
Adorable.
I'm so glad you have dimples.
Alright, so let's talk about, sogo sign up for the five day
challenge, five day runningchallenge.com, or of course,
real life runners.com/challenge.
We'll all get you to the placewhere you need to go so that you
can sign up for the challenge.
To help reignite your runningfor this next phase of your
(03:50):
life.
So if you are a runner over 40,this is specifically a woman
over 40, this challenge is foryou.
Come join us.
I'm super excited.
Let's rock and roll and talk alittle bit about losing the
spark for running, not for.
Love and marriage, but forrunning.
But actually this can apply.
Some of the stuff that we'retalking about here can apply to
(04:12):
other areas of your life aswell.
Because as you all know, that'sone of the things that we love
about running it, is that it isa metaphor for life and the
lessons that we learn in runningcan.
Often, very often apply to lotsof different areas of your life.
So if you're sitting therelistening and thinking to
yourself, no, I'm good.
Like I'm still, I have my joyfor running.
I love running.
(04:32):
Things are going really well.
Fantastic.
Maybe there's another area ofyour life that you're feeling is
on the fade or you're just don'thave the same joy or zest
around.
Maybe take what you're listeningto in this episode.
And apply it to that area aswell and see if maybe you can
gain a little bit of insightthere.
Kevin (04:51):
Yeah.
But you have a brilliant commentthat you wrote out here is
losing the spark doesn't meanthat you're not a real runner.
this happens to everybody, Ithink at some point in time.
Yeah.
I think if you run enough Atsome point you could fall into
the category of losing thespark.
yeah.
Not every day.
I love running.
I do.
I love running, but every, but
Angie (05:09):
you've gone through ups and downs too.
Kevin (05:11):
Definitely ups and downs and even.
During a period of ups where Iam feeling great, there are days
that I wake up and I'm like, Iam not really excited to get out
and run.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean that Idon't lace up the shoes and go
run.
Sometimes it does.
But sometimes you just gottalace up the shoes and go.
Angie (05:27):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:27):
And it's just, it happens to be an off day and then it's
the worst when you're, yourmental off day Falls in line
with your, your body's notcooperating correctly that day.
Angie (05:34):
Yeah.
And I agree, and I think that'sa really good point that we need
to make because.
We're not in, in this episode ingeneral, we're not talking about
losing the spark on like thatone day, right?
We all have those days, and ofcourse, some of the things that
we're talking about can apply ifyou just have one of those days
where you're just not feeling itand you don't wanna go out and
(05:55):
run and you just need to putyour shoes on and go out and run
anyway, because chances areyou're gonna feel better
afterwards.
But more of what we're talkingabout is a.
A theme, right?
If you're noticing a theme and apattern of run after run, after
one run or week after week oreven month after month, you're
starting to lose that spark andlose that joy and running is
(06:17):
just becoming a chore andsomething that you have to do or
something that you should do.
That's more of what we'retalking about today, and what we
want you to understand is yes,it doesn't mean anything about
you as a runner.
Because I think that I would saythat this does happen to
probably everybody.
I know you, I don't like togeneralize, but every runner,
(06:38):
most runners,
Kevin (06:39):
all of them,
Angie (06:40):
99% of runners have probably experienced this at
some point in time.
And it also doesn't mean thatyou're lazy.
It doesn't mean that you'rebroken.
It doesn't mean that somethingis wrong with you.
It just means that somethingdeeper is going on that needs
your attention.
And it could be physical, itcould be mental, and today we're
gonna.
(07:00):
Talk about all of those thingsbecause it's not about forcing
yourself into loving runningagain, it's not about trying to
find more motivation.
It's more remembering why youstarted and then reconnecting to
a new, even stronger version ofyourself.
Because sometimes those thingsshift, and we talked about this
(07:21):
last week in our episode 4 0 7,where we dug into the identity
shift that you need to take orthat you need to.
Undergo in.
When you start to run after 40and turn into more of a lifelong
runner, maybe the reason thatyou started running isn't
motivating you anymore.
And I think that most runnerscan probably say that unless you
(07:44):
are very new in your runningjourney.
I think that a lot of runnerswill tell you that their desire
and their drive for running haschanged over the years.
And so maybe that's where youare.
Maybe you're just.
Fading in your old desire anddrive, and you're not really
quite sure what that looks likeright now.
And so today we're gonna reallytalk about three big reasons
(08:07):
that you lose the spark forrunning.
We're gonna talk about why thishappens, and then of course, how
to respond, what you can do toget this spark back so that you
can go back out there, feelmotivated, feel joyful, feel.
Good while you're running andreally know why you're doing it
other than just, oh, it's goodfor me, or it's good for my
health, or, this is what I'vealways done.
(08:29):
There's a lot of people thatjust fall into that trap of I
gotta, I guess I should go outfor a run today.
Wouldn't you rather want to goout for a run and look forward
to your runs?
So let's jump into number one,which is running became a should
instead of.
A want.
And I think that this happens alot to us.
Kevin (08:51):
I think this has happened to me probably five or six times
throughout my running journey.
Okay.
my journey's been, that's
Angie (08:58):
pretty good for what, 30 years?
Kevin (09:00):
Yes.
Almost
Angie (09:01):
30
Kevin (09:02):
years.
No, 30 years.
Angie (09:03):
Oh, wow.
Kevin (09:03):
Yeah.
30 years.
You're,
Angie (09:04):
you're at that point uhhuh.
Kevin (09:05):
Yeah.
No, when you said it, I quicklydid the math in my head.
I'm like, Nope.
that's right.
Oh,
Angie (09:08):
damn.
Kevin (09:09):
But.
One of the first times was whenI flipped from running on a team
to running by myself.
Yeah.
Because running the existence ofrunning just completely changed.
And I stopped running for a fewmonths and had to figure out, do
I even want to do this anymore?
That's why your whole idea ofshould versus want when it's
practice.
Yeah.
And you go to practice becausethat's what you do.
(09:29):
Because that's what you'resupposed to do.
Yep.
There's practice Monday throughFriday.
you.
It's not, it's beyond a should.
Yeah.
It's just an automatic, this iswhat I do.
So it's so much of my identity.
And then when I wasn't on theteam anymore, it really
completely went to, do I want todo this at all?
And that was the first time thatI was like, I'm not doing this
unless I kind, I lose some ofthat should and throughout
(09:51):
running years, sometimes it'sgoing back to a feeling of
should, and I think a lot of usdo that If you pick various
goals and you're following astrict schedule on that, you get
into this feeling of, I have todo this thing today.
I have to do this, I have to dothat.
And you lose some of the, butwhy do I actually want to do it?
And if you occasionally get thatfeeling, that's fine.
(10:12):
On a day-to-day basis, youpointed out this is something
where day after day, week afterweek, are you feeling that?
You're just dragging yourselfout the door instead of actually
enjoying actually wanting to goout and do the thing.
That doesn't mean that you'relike leaping out the door.
That doesn't mean that it'sgonna feel amazing every time
you go out, but when I got uptoday, I wanted to go for a run.
(10:33):
My legs were a little sore fromyesterday, but I still wanted to
go out and do the thing today.
Angie (10:38):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because for me it
really.
Went from a should to a wantversus a want to a should.
Like we're talking right nowabout people that wanted to run
and it's becoming I should goout and run.
Whereas for me, it was I shouldgo out and run so that I can
(10:59):
burn calories into well.
Do I actually want to run?
I had to make that shift earlyon in my running journey because
running was never a desiredthing for me.
It was always something that Ihad to do, I was forced to do.
I was punished, through mysports and was forced to go out
and run.
And then when I moved intocollege and started running on
(11:22):
my own without someone blowing awhistle at me, then it was, I
should do this so that I canlose weight or so that I can
maintain my weight or.
Whatever, fill in the blankreason I got, but it, there was
never like, oh, I really want togo out and run today.
Kevin (11:36):
And have you made it to that point you like there are
multiple days now that you'relike, yes, I want to go out and
run.
Angie (11:41):
So I think that I moved into that want to, when I
decided that I was a runner,right?
Because for a long time, andI've talked to about this many
times on the podcast, that Inever considered myself a
runner.
And so when I.
Called decided to call myself arunner.
That is, I think when I shiftedover into, I want to start going
out to run because this is goodfor me because I wanna get
(12:02):
stronger because I wanna see ifI could get faster because I had
race goals, whatever these areother things are.
And because I wanted to go outand run with my friends, right?
running became a part of mysocial life as well.
But I've also.
Flipped.
I've also noticed that I havehad these periods of time, even
after deciding to run andwanting to run, where I've
(12:23):
started to fall back into that,I should go do this because I'm
still a runner, or because I'm arunning coach or because I have
this podcast called Real LifeRunners.
Who the heck would I be if I.
Decided I wasn't runninganymore.
Like it, it, there are stillthose periods of time that I
have gone through, even over thelast decade where I have gone
(12:44):
from a want into a should andthen back into a want.
I.
Kevin (12:48):
It's a matter of how long you hang out and that should,
there are some times that youcould argue that all the things
you just said help you maintainconsistency.
Yeah.
They help you move beyond, likesuper motivated and they're just
some facts of identity that helpyou maintain the consistency
like you've declared, I'm arunner, I've got a running
podcast.
there are.
Things that kind of say, even ifyou're not feeling it that day,
(13:10):
that you're still gonna go outand do it.
Yeah, and I don't know if that'sa should or a wand, it's just
what it is.
It might be more neutral.
Yeah.
Than I should do this.
I want to do this, it's just I'mgoing to do this.
Angie (13:20):
Yeah.
And I think that COVID reallygave a lot of people the
opportunity to.
Decide if they, A lot of peoplebecame runners during the
pandemic and decided that theywanted to start doing something.
They needed a new challenge,they wanted a way to stay
healthy, and the gym was takenaway, or other things were taken
away and all of a sudden runningwas the thing that was there
(13:40):
that they still had access to.
And then there were a lot ofpeople, I think me included that
was, I was social running was apart of my social life and I did
races and other things.
And now it's oh, all of that gotjust got taken away from me.
So now is this something that Iwanna keep doing?
And like the answer at that timewas definitely a yes for me.
Kevin (13:58):
Yeah.
Races being taken away, maderunning a very interesting
thing.
Because could you still besocial?
Like when it first started, dowe need a socially distance run?
It was a very interesting thing.
Yeah.
But a lot of people, you'reright.
Got into running because of thegym shut down and you could
still get outside and go run.
You get outside and go cycle.
I think cycling took off also.
But it was just things that youwere allowed to do outside and
they're so good for you.
(14:19):
But then once gyms reopened,people now decided, is this
still something that I want todo?
Or is this like a habit that Ifeel more compelled to do?
It gave people the opportunityto ask that question.
Angie (14:30):
Yeah, and I think that's a, an important question for all
of us to ask ourselves on arelatively regular basis.
maybe some people more regularthan others, but if running is
feeling more like an obligationor something that I have to do
or that I should do right now,maybe we can start to look at it
and see it more as anopportunity to explore new goals
(14:53):
or new terrains or newchallenges.
And see other sides of running.
I think that's what I've startedto look at running.
When I have gone through this,and I've gone through this
relatively recently as well ofrunning is just a part of my
health routine.
this is just what I do onTuesdays, Thursdays and
Saturdays.
I run on Monday, Wednesday, andFriday I lift and this is my
(15:14):
routine and that's totally fine.
If that's you, this is great.
there's nothing wrong with this,but if you notice yourself.
Not looking forward to your runsor dreading your runs or really
oh, do I really have to go outand do this today?
It can be an opportunity for youto just start to question it and
decide, okay, do I wanna keeprunning?
Or do I wanna try something elseout?
(15:36):
Or do I wanna try differenttypes of runs out as well?
And that can be differentdistances.
If you are someone that's beendoing marathons or half
marathons longer distances,maybe you would have a lot more
fun getting into shorter raceslike five Ks or 10 Ks if you've
been running on the roads.
What about trying out trails orother things like that?
There's a lot of different waysthat you can run, and I think
(15:59):
that we get stuck when we thinkthat running has to.
Count for something.
we have to get in 45 minutes oran hour, I have to run at least
three miles for it to count.
That's when we start to get intotrouble because then running
becomes this obligation.
It becomes this thing that wehave to do or this amount of
(16:19):
running that we need to do.
But what if it could just be funand one of the ways that I
instituted this for me was whatif I just went.
Out to run for 20 minutes or fortwo miles, like gasp, right?
and I know that might soundpretentious to some people, but
there was a point in time wherein my mind if it was anything
less than five miles, it didn'treally count.
(16:41):
And that is a very dangerousmindset to be in.
and dangerous is obviouslyrelative, but why in the world
did I put that rule on myself?
Kevin (16:50):
Yeah, because five miles is probably a certain time on
the clock also.
Angie (16:54):
I think that it was also because when I was training for
half marathons, that wastypically, that was the low run,
that was my weekday run.
that was just my quote unquote,normal weekday run was four five
miles.
So why in the world would I everrun anything less than that?
Kevin (17:06):
Yeah, that's funny.
I haven't even thought about ituntil, just now as you said it,
but when we head outta theneighborhood, if I turn right, I
know it's gonna be a shorterrun.
If I turn left, it's gonna be alonger run.
I.
It doesn't have to be like
Angie (17:18):
you can turn around at any point in time.
Like you can make it an out andback.
Kevin (17:22):
Yes, I could.
I could.
I could turn right and thenactually go through that one
intersection.
Go longer that direction.
Yeah.
But.
In my head, I just, I knowusually it's shorter if I go to
the right and longer if I go tothe left.
Yeah.
But if I take that one stepfurther, going to the right
could then have negativejudgment on it.
Oh, I chose the short optiontoday.
Angie (17:38):
Yeah.
Kevin (17:39):
Like it's, and it's just so close because I already have
it in my head, labeled shorter,longer.
So that shorter, longer can thengo into better, worse.
Yeah.
Like it could very easily slidethere and.
Right now I am at neutral, and Ithink that's another point that
I really want to hit on here, isit doesn't have to be you
should, you have to do thisthing or you really want to do
(18:00):
this thing.
It's super fun.
You can have neutral.
That's, yes, that's what youpointed out is Running is the
thing that I do.
With my general fitness routine,and I have it on these days of
the week.
Yeah.
It's scheduled.
It's not a, I have to do it.
It's just what it is.
It can be neutral.
It's when things slide fromneutral into an obligation that
you start going the otherdirection.
And that's when maybe try andadd some different variety to
(18:21):
it.
We'll pick a different goal,pick a different distance, pick
something else that's gonnachange up the routine.
That makes things a little bitmore interesting and leaves the
obligation.
Angie (18:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that leads perfectlyinto reason number two, that a
lot of people lose the spark,and that's physical or em
emotional burnout, which isreally over training, under
recovering constant life stressor hormonal shifts.
So a lot of you women that I'vebeen talking to over the last
few months, like women over 40,were going through
(18:51):
perimenopause.
If you're over 50, maybe you'vealready gone through menopause
and you're in your post meau.
Menopause era.
These hormone shifts play a hugerole in how our body responds to
running and exercise and.
It can leave us feeling reallyexhausted in all of the ways.
Physically exhausted, mentallyexhausted, and running can be
(19:11):
just, again, one more thing thatwe have to do.
One more obligation, one thing,one more thing that's draining
our energy.
And a lot of women, especiallyif you are still training in the
way that you used to train inyour twenties, in your thirties,
you're going out and you feellike you have to run five miles
every time, and it has to be at.
(19:32):
Eight minute pace or nine minutepace, whatever arbitrary number
you've chosen for yourself.
Like when I go out, I run fivemiles in 45 minutes, like that's
what I do.
And all of a sudden that fivemile run is now taking 46, 47,
48, gasp, 50 oh no minutes.
It
Kevin (19:50):
starts with a different number.
It's a completely differentthing,
Angie (19:52):
right?
But this is what happens.
And then not only do you havethe physical burnout that you
are experiencing because you arenow pushing your body too hard,
you are now.
Probably feeling a level ofshame around it, a level of
disappointment or confusion orfrustration or annoyance.
there's all these other emotionsthat can be bundled up in your
(20:14):
body's response to exercise andall of a sudden it's not feeling
as good and what does this mean?
And now you might be questioningyourself as a runner, and that's
going to lead to a wholesnowball into that emotional
side of burnout as well,
Kevin (20:28):
right?
in your 45 feet.
45 minute, five mile, analogythere.
Angie (20:33):
Yeah.
Kevin (20:33):
You can either overtrain yourself and keep trying to make
sure that you hit the 45minutes.
Or deal with the mental judgmentof allowing it to actually still
feel the way that it's supposedto feel.
Yeah.
If it's an easier run, if it's amoderate run.
whatever it is, allow it to feelthe same, but then the clock is
different.
Yeah.
And you've got that mental,whatever hangup is dealing with.
(20:54):
Or you're like, I, no, I'm, Idon't wanna deal with that
mental hangup, so I'm just gonnakeep pushing harder and harder.
these are bad choices.
Angie (21:00):
Yeah, because you, maybe you have done that and you're
like, okay, you know what, I'mjust gonna go out and run.
And then you keep seeing thatsame number or that same pace on
your watch, and it keeps makingyou feel worse and worse.
And you're like, I don't likethe way this feels, so I'm just
gonna push myself harder.
But then you're burning yourselfout physically.
Kevin (21:15):
Do you want to.
Feel it mentally, or do youwanna feel it physically?
Because both of them are gonnapose a challenge.
Angie (21:20):
and they're both going to happen.
Kevin (21:21):
That's the other thing is they're both gonna happen.
'cause even if you continue totrying to make sure that you hit
your five miles and 45 minutes,that's going to start feeling
harder and harder.
Yep.
And then you're gonna have thejudgment on, this shouldn't feel
this hard anymore.
So that judgment's gonna bethere anyway.
So you might as well just run toyour comfort.
Angie (21:38):
and the more you push yourself harder, the more you
are putting your system intothat chronic stress mode and
over training mode so that yourbody isn't recovering and so
your body, it's just going tokeep getting harder and harder.
You're putting yourself into.
A non winnable game,essentially.
Yes.
Because by, oh, by continuing topush and trying to hit those
(21:58):
numbers, you are forcing morestress onto your system.
You're not recovering so yourbody's not adapting.
And when you get intoperimenopause and post menopause
and you start experiencing thesehormone shifts, those hormone
shifts.
Mean that your body cannot adaptto stress in the same way.
It cannot adapt as easily, andso running does feel harder for
(22:21):
a lot of people.
It is time where we might haveto slow ourselves down a little
bit, and that doesn't mean thatyou are, you have to get slower
when you're aging, and so pleasedon't hear me wrong.
It just means that every singlerun can't feel hard.
Every single run can't be at thesame pace.
Like you're going to have to getbetter.
At listening to your body andhonoring your body and really
(22:44):
reconnecting to what your newbody needs in this next phase of
life.
Kevin (22:49):
Yeah, and one of the things that we highlight here is
making sure that you areprioritizing recovery.
Because if you keep pushingyourself.
Even when you're trying to getthe recovery, you're like, I'm
trying to get enough sleep.
If your hormones are all out ofwhack, if you're over training
and you're not getting enoughfood into your body, sleep is
not gonna go very well for you.
Yeah.
if you're not getting theappropriate levels of sleep,
it's hard to then push yourself,even if you're like, oh, I'm not
(23:10):
pushing every single day.
You might still be on the otherside of not recovering from what
it is that you're doing.
Yeah.
If you're not fuelingappropriately, if you're not
sleeping appropriately, if thestress levels are messing with
you throughout the day, thatyour stress levels are generally
high.
Day in, day out, then the runs,even if you're trying to balance
easy and harder runs, everythingfeels a little bit harder
(23:31):
because the background stress isa little bit higher.
Yeah.
So that's not helping things,and then you try and take a nap
to recover from it.
I don't know when everybody'sfitting in a nap, but you try to
sleep to recover from this andmaybe sleep is not coming as
smoothly as it used to become.
Angie (23:45):
Yeah, and I think that a big part of this comes from that
need to push and.
It can be very helpful when weactually allow ourselves to have
seasons, and this is one of thereasons that we love training
cycles in the way that we coachour athletes is, You, it's not
the best choice for you to betraining for a race at all times
(24:06):
of the year.
Like it's much healthier.
It's going to be much moreenjoyable.
It's going to lead to lessplateau and less decline if you
are changing up the point ofyour training cycle and not just
training for a marathon everysingle cycle.
Allowing for seasons of ebb andflow, allowing for seasons where
you're focusing more onstrength, where you're focusing
(24:28):
more on speed, where you'refocusing more on distance.
And you are also, again,prioritizing that recovery.
But when you change up thefocus, that can get back to
point number one that we madehere of making it.
Running different, but it's alsogoing to help you avoid the
physical and emotional burnoutthat can come when you notice
that your body's not respondingto running the same way that it
(24:50):
used to.
Kevin (24:50):
Yeah.
A variety of different reasonsfor running, not from one day to
the next.
Not constantly shifting, butevery few months shift the
overall focus and purpose of thegeneral training plan.
If you're like, oh, but I loveto have races.
Not that you have to have races,but that you just actually truly
love and enjoy all of the races.
Maybe mix up the race distances.
(25:11):
Yeah, because that alone can Addsome variety to the year.
Angie (25:14):
Or if you wa like just love five Ks, then great.
But then maybe don't race all ofthem, maybe.
Good point.
Go out for one and you're like,okay, you know what?
I'm gonna go all in on this one.
I'm gonna see what I can do, andthen go out for the next one and
run it with your kids, or run itwith your friend, or just go out
and have fun.
Wear a costume.
there's different ways that youcan experience.
Even the same race distance.
(25:35):
So there's different things thatyou can do so that you
experience running differentlyversus just having to grind and
push really hard and try to PRevery time.
Kevin (25:44):
Put a costume on, London Marathon just happened.
Yeah.
The number of costumes at thisthing.
People whose commentary waslike, I just got passed from by
a banana, but hopefully I canstay ahead of that person
Dressed as a minion.
Yeah, because.
Because the banana was going fora world record, so they're
flying.
Yeah.
But maybe this person's just ina costume for the enjoyment of
It's bonkers what's going on inthat race.
Angie (26:03):
Yeah.
But when we prioritize recoveryand specifically nervous system
regulation, this can really helpus to avoid both physical and
mental burnout.
Because if you notice that youare in that season where you're
feeling burnt out, you'refeeling overwhelmed, you're just
like I, it is a struggle for meto get out the door every single
day.
Ask yourself like, how is mynervous system feeling?
(26:25):
And I know that seems like aweird question because most of
you that aren't.
in the same world as I live inthat, where I'm reading about
this and I'm in this constantly,most of us don't like walk
around saying like, how is mynervous system today?
I
Kevin (26:37):
live with you.
I still don't walk aroundsaying, how is my, you caught me
with that question.
I
Angie (26:41):
don't actually even say that to myself.
Kevin (26:43):
That's not true.
She journals about it for 20minutes every morning.
Angie (26:46):
Oh, get out here.
But it is we can take those.
Little breaks and resetsthroughout the day where we can
just like, take a deep breath,check in with ourselves and
notice am I tense right now?
Am I feeling a little fried?
Do I feel relaxed?
Like it's really just askingyourself how you're feeling on
any given day or at any point inthe day.
Kevin (27:03):
That is a much more inviting way, just how am I
feeling right now?
And pausing for a few moments,taking a few deep breaths.
Yeah.
And honestly answering thatquestion.
Not, I don't have time to answerthis ridiculous question.
I have things to accomplish.
Yeah, I bet you're feeling alittle frazzled.
is probably how you're feelingright now.
Angie (27:18):
And stress is stress.
Like the way that I like tothink about stress is that we
have one stress bucket and allof the different stresses in
your life all go into that samebucket.
So running is a physical stresson the body.
yes, there is a stress relief.
there's a stress relievingaspect to running.
For sure, but not if you'rerunning hard all the time and
(27:40):
not if you are feeling shamearound your pace and not if
you're frustrated and annoyed byyour running.
Now all of a sudden this thingthat maybe used to be a stress
reliever is now creating morestress in your life.
And again, it's all being addedto that same stress bucket.
And when that bucket starts tooverflow, that's when we get
into trouble.
That's when we get into burnoutand injury and illness because
(28:03):
there's only so much stress thatyour body can take.
Kevin (28:06):
Yeah, it's such an interesting concept because so
many people look at running as away to relieve stress.
But as running starts feelingdifferent, whether it's just
actually the way it feels inyour body or the times and
distances that you're actuallyseeing.
All of them then lead to, canvery easily lead to mental
stresses so that happy, joyfultime might now just be, that
(28:29):
might be one of the thingsthat's leading it to more
dreadful, I still should do thisthing, even though it's not as
enjoyable, part of the enjoymentmight be being lost because
you're throwing your ownjudgment on top of it.
Angie (28:40):
Yeah, and so one of the ways that you can help, if you
notice that you are getting intophysical or emotional burnout,
one of the ways that you can dois, number one, just take a
break from running for a littlebit.
That is definitely an option.
But if that feels toofarfetched, maybe just change
what you're doing again, right?
Like instead of going off onlonger runs, try some shorter
runs, try some slower runs, trysome speed work, try walks or
(29:04):
trails or new locations like.
Those changing those littledetails can really make running
feel so much different.
what about you?
have you ever gone through aperiod of physical or emotional
or mental burnout with running?
Kevin (29:18):
Yes.
Angie (29:19):
When it, when's the time that you're thinking of that you
can think of that, maybe morerecently or.
back, or earlier in your runningyears.
Kevin (29:29):
my fir literally, it goes back to what I started the thing
with is that is the first timethat I really felt this burnout,
complete loss of spark was whenI first got into trying to run
on my own.
And I took.
October, November, December,January off of running.
Like I took multiple months offof running Yeah.
To try and figure out is thissomething I'm even going to miss
(29:50):
if I don't do it.
And it turned out that I didmiss it.
Angie (29:52):
Yeah.
What about this year, like afteryour a hundred mile this year,
while you were in that cycle ofillness for a little while
there?
what do you think was happeningin your body?
Do you think that was a kind ofa physical burnout that your
body was putting on top of you?
Kevin (30:05):
It might have been a physical burnout.
It definitely wasn't a mentalburnout, and it took me a little
bit to not to overcome themental frustration of not being
able to keep running as much asI wanted.
Yeah, that was a tricky part.
Angie (30:17):
Yeah.
I think that we need to talk alittle bit about that too,
because there is that aspect,like we've talked about.
How we can get upset that we'reour paces and our distances
might not be the same, but ifyour body is telling you
physically you need to rest andyou're burning out, but then
that causes more emotionalstress because you then can't
run.
(30:37):
That's a whole nother.
Aspect that we haven't reallyaddressed yet.
Kevin (30:41):
You kinda have to accept, like if my body is saying you're
getting sick every few weeks,and every time you tell them
what was happening too.
that's what was happening.
we've covered this I think on aprevious one that essentially I
was getting sick almost everyfour-ish weeks.
Angie (30:54):
It was like.
Every three weeks.
Kevin (30:55):
Every three weeks.
But for several months.
Yeah.
Like for several months this washappening that like once a month
I would get super, super sickand basically be exhausted and
in bed on one of the days of theweekend, I usually would just
lose a Sunday.
which is, was real rough on youalso because then you know, I'm
sick, you're not sure what'sgoing on.
I also can't do anything aroundthe house.
(31:15):
I'm useless on that day.
There's a lot of stuff that I'mfeeling on that there's a lot of
stuff that you are feeling offthat, and ultimately the answer
is you probably just need tocalm down.
Pull back a little bit.
Make sure that you are takingcare of your body, that you are
listening to it on the runs.
Also that you're giving yourselfthe appropriate rest that.
because it always draws back, itpulls me back to 2017 where I
(31:40):
was so clearly overdoing it, andthat year led to seizures.
This year is just getting reallysick and stuck in bed, and I'm
just exhausted and taking napsall day long.
is that just one step before, isit only hitting that Because I'm
on meds, so I'm not having aseizure like.
Otherwise, is that what theresult would've been?
(32:00):
it's tricky.
And so when this was happening,I was like, I don't, I really
want to be able to go out andrun, but I can't, and I'm trying
to give myself more grace.
I've been doing it literallysince 2018 that if I'm up too
late, if I'm really feelingexhausted, if school is covering
too much, like whatever thething is, if I'm, like, I think
(32:22):
I'm long term gonna be betterserved with an off day.
I think that I've been better atdoing that as I was reaching a
goal a hundred mile race.
I may have been overruling mybody more often than I had been
in the previous five years.
Angie (32:37):
Yeah.
And it came back to haunt youlike in the months following
your a hundred, and I thinkthat's part of what was.
Annoying and frustrated.
I shouldn't say annoying.
no, I was annoyed and I wasfrustrated with you and it, and
then I felt guilty for feelingthat way because you felt like
crap and so clearly your bodywas telling you, Hey, you need
to be in bed all day today.
And it was bothering me, notjust because.
(33:00):
I was losing you for a day andyou couldn't help out around the
house, but because I knew deepdown that you weren't taking
care of yourself in the way thatyou needed to.
And I was like, why aren't youjust taking care of yourself?
And so that was annoying to mebecause I can't force feed you.
I can't, there's a lot of thingsI can take on in our house and
in our, in the business and allthese things, but I can't.
(33:21):
Take care of you physically.
that is your job to feedyourself well, to make sure
you're getting enough rest andhydration and all of the things.
And that wasn't happening.
And so that's part of where myfrustration came in.
And because your body was givingyou signals and you were just
pushing through,
Kevin (33:39):
I think that gets into, the should versus want to is it
was such a combo is it was notjust a thing that I felt like I
should be doing to make surethat I was properly training.
Yeah.
But I was.
I was enjoying the trainingprocess.
Angie (33:52):
Yeah.
You really wanted to, and youwere very much enjoying training
for your a hundred miles like
Kevin (33:56):
I really was.
But there also was definitely acomponent of should,'cause
there's a really long distancerace coming up and I need,
wanted to make sure I was wellprepared for it.
it's still in the background.
You still have to take care ofyourself.
Yeah.
It's, it is not exactly on, onthe same topic, but that part is
still, there is, what I wasdoing was different.
it connects to this guy is ifyou're gonna change things up,
make sure that you're stillphysically caring for yourself
(34:18):
along the way.
If, if you go that direction, ifyou're like, you know what, I'm
gonna run ridiculously longdistances.
Yeah.
Extra food is going to be yourfriend.
Angie (34:26):
Always extra food.
Yeah.
but You wouldn't say that duringthis period of time, you've
really, you really lost yourspark for running because you
wanted to be doing everythingyou really wanted.
Yeah.
But your body was basicallysaying no.
Yeah.
Kevin (34:38):
No, I definitely still had spark.
Yeah.
I, and I wouldn't say I hadenergy.
and that's
Angie (34:43):
where I think where it gets tricky, right?
Because there, emotionally andmentally, you were feeling one
thing about wanting to go outand do this, but your body was
telling you that.
There was something that neededyour attention here.
Kevin (34:56):
Yeah.
And ultimately that is aphysical issue, like that was
physical burnout.
mentally I was still there,which is a weird combo.
'cause very often they cometogether.
so that was definitely a, justactually really take care of
your body and support it so thatwhatever mental spark you have,
you can follow that.
Angie (35:14):
And I think too, after your a hundred, you wanted to
jump in pretty quickly.
I think that you took.
A little bit of time off, butthen you wanted to jump in and
underestimated just how muchdamage was done on your body in
that a hundred miles.
Running a hundred miles takes avery large toll on your body.
And I think that you were tryingto get back into it'cause you
(35:35):
felt okay overall.
Like I know that you weren'tjust trying to go out and do
anything stupid, and you'relike, no, I feel okay.
But then you'd go out and you'drun consistently for a week or
so, and then you'd end up, inbed again with.
Sick over the weekend.
Yeah.
So like your body was tellingyou like, no, I'm not recovered
yet.
And there are so many times thatrunners experience this, and
maybe not to the extent ofrunning a hundred miles and then
(35:58):
needing to take a whole day inbed, but there are these signals
that we often override, andthat's where I'm just inviting
everyone to start to look atthose a little bit differently
and give your body what itneeds.
And so that I think takes usinto.
Number three, like the bigreason, the third big reason
where.
You might have lost your spark,and that is that you've outgrown
(36:22):
your old identity.
And we dug into this a lot inour last episode, but we
definitely need to touch on thistoday because that runner that
you used to be, like Kevin'sbeen talking about how when he
was a collegiate high schoolrunner and then collegiate
competitive runner, that was oneversion of himself.
And when.
College ended and he decided, oractually when you, stopped
(36:44):
running for the team, incollege, you then had to figure
out, okay, what kind of a runneram I now?
Do I even want to be a runner?
And I think that a lot of peoplein this next phase of life.
After 40 perimenopause, postmenopause, whatever phase you're
in, maybe the runner that usedto be maybe you used to chase
goals and prs and times and havea certain image that you
(37:06):
associated with yourself, butthat might not fit who you are
right now.
The way you used to train mightbe differently than.
What you're hearing us tell youon the podcast and you're
starting to accept is oh, maybeI do need to shift the focus of
my training away from justmileage and just pace, and
really look into how do I getstronger?
(37:28):
How do I build muscle?
How do I build bone?
But wait, those were never myfocuses earlier in my training,
and I got good results before.
So really, is this really theway that I should be going?
All of that is normal, right?
and growth requires us to do newthings.
It requires us to set new goals.
It requires us to becomedifferent people, become a new
(37:53):
version of ourself, and thatfeels really weird.
I.
For a lot of people, and I thinkthat's when you're noticing that
maybe you're outgrowing that oldidentity, you're outgrowing.
Maybe it's because your body'sgiving you these signals and
you're experiencing some ofthese physical burnout,
emotional burnout.
You're noticing that your pacesare slowing and maybe you feel
(38:14):
like this new identity is almostbeing forced on onto you, which
can be part of that difficultywith this transition as well.
Kevin (38:21):
Yeah.
I mean it, most people resistchange.
Yeah.
if you could just stay whereyou're at, it seems like a much
safer, more comfortable place.
Even if the change is going tobe a positive, most people would
still opt to where they're atbecause they know the current
existence.
and so most, when a newexperience, a new way of running
is, like you said, it's pushedupon you, like you keep trying
(38:44):
to go out and train the same wayand you're getting slower or
you're feeling more exhausted,like whatever it is, it's just
not feeling the same.
The new thing is coming and youcan't really push it.
Off.
You can't pretend that it's notthere.
Pretending that it's not thereis going to lead to the burnout.
it's eventually going to lead tosome mental frustration.
You kinda have to accept it andbe like, look, we're gonna have
(39:04):
an evolution here.
If you went out and got a brandnew car and you went from
driving an SUV to driving asports car, you would not drive
the exact same way.
Like you wouldn't, like if I'mdriving a school bus and I drive
a Corvette, the way I'm going tomerge onto the highway are two
very different activities.
So when your body is havingchanges to it, and we're all
(39:26):
going into our new little sportscars.
Did you like the order?
I put those things in.
I was
Angie (39:29):
just about to make a comment on that.
How there's a lot of people thatgo from sports cars into
minivans.
Kevin (39:34):
no.
We're going the other direction.
Yeah.
Now, in your Corvette body, youmight have to change the way
that you're.
Training the way that you'resetting goals, the way that
you're doing things, and it'snot I need to do this because
I'm getting older.
It's no, the equipment isworking differently, and so
you're going to need to traindifferently.
Like when you hit the gas pedal,it's going to have a different
(39:56):
reaction.
You have to accept that thesports car accelerates
different.
You can do things in the sportscar that you couldn't
necessarily do in the minivan,and so have some fun with some
shorter things because they'regonna be a blast.
And you can do that.
Your body is fully capable ofthat.
And it might not be somethingthat you're like, oh yeah, I
would totally think of doingsomething shorter and faster.
(40:17):
A lot of people move from doingshorter things.
They can't quite go as fast onthat, and they move towards
running a half marathon, amarathon, and it doesn't really
occur to them to go the otherdirection and pull it back to a
5K, but it could be a blast.
Angie (40:29):
Or they see that decreasing their distance is a
failure.
because there's a lot of peoplethat have been doing the longer
distances, half marathons, andtheir body's not responding the
same way, and they think, okay,maybe I just can't handle this
distance anymore.
So they see the act of pullingback and going shorter distances
as a failure.
Kevin (40:48):
Yeah, I mean there's all sorts of ways that you can try
and quantify this.
You go to races, they puteverybody into five year age
group buckets, so maybe youmight not be able to hit the
same PR that you could 20, 30years ago.
But what about the PR withinthis five year age gap?
Yeah, age gap.
Yeah, The, there's a reason whythat, you can look online and
find these age gradedcalculators and figure out what
(41:09):
is my time equivalent.
There's, I forget what the raceis, but they do every single
person in the race based off oftheir like, age score.
So it doesn't really matter whatyour finishing time is, it goes
into a calculator and theyfigure out who wins it.
So like a 12-year-old or an84-year-old could win it in that
year because they had the besthuge grade performance.
Oh,
Angie (41:26):
that's
Kevin (41:26):
cool.
Yeah, it's a very interestingthing.
It's not necessarily the firstperson to cross the line.
This is an actual biologicalthing that we have to accept.
That doesn't mean that you needto stop chasing prs.
It just means that you have tohave maybe a new way of looking
at prs, maybe a new way oftraining for those prs.
I.
Angie (41:44):
Right, and just really redefining what success looks
like in general.
Like maybe it's not a PRanymore, maybe it's having more
fun.
It's running with friends.
It's feeling really strong asyou cross the finish line or
standing on the starting line.
Maybe it's smiling more whenyou're out there racing or high
fiving.
People along the routes andstopping to pet the dogs.
(42:07):
there's so many different waysthat you can redefine what
success looks like.
And I love seeing the postsinside of our group, like inside
of the team, about when peoplepost about their races.
It's not just about the PR.
People talk about some of thethings that I just mentioned.
That's where I got some of theseexamples of I got to PET 13 dogs
on the run today and that was asuccessful day for that person.
(42:28):
And I absolutely love thatbecause.
That is one way that running isbringing more joy into your
life.
If you love dogs and if you lovestopping to pet dogs and you can
do more of that while you'rerunning, like that's just going
to allow you to see and pet moredogs.
Like I love exploring places onfoot, and I'm gonna be able to
see more of that place when I'mrunning because I can cover more
(42:51):
distance in a shorter period oftime versus if I'm just walking
around the city.
So there's a lot of differentways that we can gain joy and.
Get that spark in, but we haveto be able to give ourself
permission to do that.
And I think that's really key.
And just understanding, okay,it's okay if running is playing
a different role in my life.
If it looks different, I'm stilla runner.
(43:13):
There's nothing wrong with me.
I'm just going to explore thisnew aspect and this new running
identity that I'm still creatingfor myself.
And that can be very exciting.
Kevin (43:22):
that's the thing is it's always a runner identity that
you're still creating.
Like it's, you would not dothings the same way in almost
any other aspect.
But we like to cling to running.
I definitely do not teach thesame way that I did when I was
first hired.
I don't teach the same way thatI did five years ago.
Like my, my.
Teaching has evolved, mycoaching has evolved, and so it
(43:42):
makes sense that my runningidentity would also evolve.
I don't parent the same way.
We have very different kids.
If I tried to parent them thesame way I did when they were
one That would be veryinteresting results to that.
Angie (43:52):
they might crash out on you.
Kevin (43:54):
They would totally start tweaking, I think is, I think I
nailed that one.
but could you imagine trying tolike, cut up their food and
airplane it into them?
that would just be hysterical.
They would lose it, but.
We change all these otherthings.
It makes perfect sense that wewould adjust the way that we
interact with other peoplearound us as they change.
But suddenly we're like, this isthe way that I run.
(44:15):
This is the way I've always ran,so that's what I'm going to do.
No, it all evolves and thatacceptance that everything is
evolving, it's yes.
Technically the, you're gettinga little bit older and that's
why there's some evolution, butthat's the evolution to all of
it.
You're getting older, you'realso getting wiser.
You're getting more experiencedin all of these things, and you
might be doing it for differentreasons along the way.
Evolution is just naturallyoccurring.
Angie (44:37):
And so it's really important for us to remember
that running isn't justsomething that you do.
It is a part.
Not all, but a part of who youare.
It is a part.
Of how you live.
It's a way that you can stayconnected to yourself, to your
strength, to your freedom.
And freedom's a really big partof why I love running.
Because running gives me thatfreedom not only to explore, but
(44:58):
also to stay strong in my bodyand to be able to jump in and do
whatever the heck I want, withmy kids, or climbing stairs or
going out for hikes.
Like I wanna be in good enoughshape, or I can, my body doesn't
limit me.
And that is one of the thingsthat I think.
Running can bring every singleperson regardless of distance or
speed or any of that.
(45:19):
So what I would love to offeryou today as our listeners is to
reconnect to joy and figure out.
Even if it's just one run, pickone run this week with zero that
has zero pace or distance goal,just go out and run and maybe
notice the birds around you ornotice the trees or just like go
(45:42):
out and decide, all right, I'mgonna run for a while and then
I'm gonna turn around and gohome.
Maybe you can do that.
If you need to put a time on it,fine.
Put a time on it.
I'm gonna go out and run for 20minutes.
Maybe pick a time that's shorterthan the distance that you
normally do and see how thatfeels.
Does it feel really weird?
Does it feel, like not enough?
Like how does it feel in yourbody?
(46:04):
When you go out and do a shorterrun or a slower run, try to
change up your running routine alittle bit and see how it feels
and see if maybe that can helpyou to reignite your spark.
Kevin (46:15):
I like it.
you can mix things up for safetyprotocols.
Sometimes there's certain routesthat you already know, like just
from a practical safetyperspective, try running that
route in reverse.
Honestly, if I do my normal loopand I run it backwards, there
are trees that I'm like, Ididn't even know there was a
tree there.
Yeah.
It's true.
it's 30 feet tall.
Angie (46:30):
Yep.
Absolutely.
So one of the ways that you canreignite that spark for your
running is to join our five daychallenge running reignited.
Head over to real liferunners.com/challenge to get
yourself signed up for, today.
And also, feel free to sharethis episode, share the
challenge with anybody that youthink could use this like
(46:51):
reignited spark.
We wanna show you how to run inthe second phase of your life.
After 40 perimenopause, postmenopause so that you can.
Step into the strong andempowered runner and woman that
you know that you have inside ofyou.
Like this is the thing is ifyou're hearing this and it's
(47:12):
sparking something in you, youknow that there is a different,
stronger version of yourself.
And if you're.
Wondering, I'm here to tell youthat there is, so I would love
to invite you to join thechallenge.
It is going to be both aphysical and a mental challenge,
for you.
We're not just, it's not justabout going out and running five
days out of the week.
That is not what this runningchallenge is about.
(47:34):
I.
It's getting going to help youlook at your running in a
different way, in a new way toprepare you the best for running
after 40 in perimenopause andpost menopause.
So check it out today, real liferunners.com/challenge and we
will see you on May 12th.
And as always, thanks forspending this time with us.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
(47:56):
408.
Now get out there and run yourlife.
If running has started to feel more like a chore instead
(00:02):
of a passion, you're not alone.
Today we're talking about whythat happens and exactly how you
can reignite your spark forrunning.
So stay tuned.
(00:33):
What's up runners?
Welcome to the podcast.
Today we're gonna be talkingabout what it really means when
your motivation fades.
There's so many people out therethat just think I need more
motivation, and today we'regonna talk about why that's not
the case and how you canreignite that spark of running
and some of the most simple andpowerful shifts that can help
(00:54):
you fall back in love withrunning again.
If you seem to have lost yourspark, which actually.
Lines me up perfectly to let youknow that we are running our
brand new five day challengeagain.
And yes, I'm gonna drop it rightin here.
Kevin's like shaking his headover here.
He's like, where are you goingwith this Anang?
The five day challenge is backthat.
(01:15):
Is what I'm, where I'm going andI'm super excited about it.
May 12th through the 16th, we'rebringing back the five day
challenge and we are renamingit, running reignited because we
are here in these five days.
Going to help you reignite yourspark, your joy for running to
figure out where you are rightnow.
What's gotten in your way If youdon't have the results that you
(01:38):
want or you just, maybe thingsare going pretty well for you
and you just wanna get better,all of this is going to help you
in the five day challenge to seewhere you are and move to where
you wanna be.
So I'm super excited about that.
So registration is now live whenthis episode, is released.
So you can head over to reallife runners.com/challenge and
(02:00):
sign up for our five daychallenge, which starts on May
12th.
Kevin (02:04):
That sounds fantastic.
I like where you went with that.
right off the bat, let's, it'sgonna be a great challenge.
It's like you've been excitedfor this thing for weeks
building to this challenge, soit's
Angie (02:12):
cause I've been building it.
Kevin (02:13):
Yes, I know.
And but Right.
So it's
Angie (02:14):
like very exciting when it gets to be actually released
and experienced by people.
Kevin (02:18):
Yeah.
where everybody else gets to seethe same level of excitement
that you are bringing into it.
'cause you are sparking overhere.
But what we're talking about isspark.
What happens when.
You lose the spark.
I got a little nervous.
I'm not gonna lie.
You're like, I wrote an episodeabout losing the spark and how
it might be inevitable for somepeople, and it's a normalized
thing.
It's gonna be okay, and here'sways we can handle if that spark
(02:39):
is lost.
I'm like, it's what messages areyou trying to send here?
What?
Angie (02:42):
What's.
Spark.
Do you think I lost?
Kevin (02:44):
no.
We're all just about the lo, thelove and joy of running, so
we're good.
We're just, it's a motivation inrunning kind of thing.
Don't
Angie (02:49):
worry.
Love my spark is still a flame.
Excellent.
Is that a flame?
Is what we're
Kevin (02:54):
going with.
Angie (02:55):
That's, that shows you guys that this is not a scripted
podcast in any way.
Kevin (03:00):
You don't have a flame written in the outline
Angie (03:02):
here or my.
Spark is a flame.
That doesn't even make sense.
Yeah, no, it's beautiful.
Like sparks can't be a flame.
Like the spark is what causesthe flame.
Kevin (03:09):
Excellent,
Angie (03:09):
right?
Yes.
My sparks are still sparking foryou.
How's that?
Your sparks are arcing.
Sparking.
Kevin (03:15):
There you go.
My
Angie (03:15):
sparks are sparking.
Yeah.
Kevin (03:18):
Sorry.
I was going with the car analogywhere you start arking.
Nevermind.
Angie (03:21):
What?
What do you mean arcing?
It's where the,
Kevin (03:24):
the terminals of the battery connect.
You get the lightning shotacross the nevermind.
Oh,
Angie (03:28):
okay.
It's a science.
It's a science thing, things.
You're so cute.
Thank you.
Adorable.
I'm so glad you have dimples.
Alright, so let's talk about, sogo sign up for the five day
challenge, five day runningchallenge.com, or of course,
real life runners.com/challenge.
We'll all get you to the placewhere you need to go so that you
can sign up for the challenge.
To help reignite your runningfor this next phase of your
(03:50):
life.
So if you are a runner over 40,this is specifically a woman
over 40, this challenge is foryou.
Come join us.
I'm super excited.
Let's rock and roll and talk alittle bit about losing the
spark for running, not for.
Love and marriage, but forrunning.
But actually this can apply.
Some of the stuff that we'retalking about here can apply to
(04:12):
other areas of your life aswell.
Because as you all know, that'sone of the things that we love
about running it, is that it isa metaphor for life and the
lessons that we learn in runningcan.
Often, very often apply to lotsof different areas of your life.
So if you're sitting therelistening and thinking to
yourself, no, I'm good.
Like I'm still, I have my joyfor running.
I love running.
(04:32):
Things are going really well.
Fantastic.
Maybe there's another area ofyour life that you're feeling is
on the fade or you're just don'thave the same joy or zest
around.
Maybe take what you're listeningto in this episode.
And apply it to that area aswell and see if maybe you can
gain a little bit of insightthere.
Kevin (04:51):
Yeah.
But you have a brilliant commentthat you wrote out here is
losing the spark doesn't meanthat you're not a real runner.
this happens to everybody, Ithink at some point in time.
Yeah.
I think if you run enough Atsome point you could fall into
the category of losing thespark.
yeah.
Not every day.
I love running.
I do.
I love running, but every, but
Angie (05:09):
you've gone through ups and downs too.
Kevin (05:11):
Definitely ups and downs and even.
During a period of ups where Iam feeling great, there are days
that I wake up and I'm like, Iam not really excited to get out
and run.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean that Idon't lace up the shoes and go
run.
Sometimes it does.
But sometimes you just gottalace up the shoes and go.
Angie (05:27):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:27):
And it's just, it happens to be an off day and then it's
the worst when you're, yourmental off day Falls in line
with your, your body's notcooperating correctly that day.
Angie (05:34):
Yeah.
And I agree, and I think that'sa really good point that we need
to make because.
We're not in, in this episode ingeneral, we're not talking about
losing the spark on like thatone day, right?
We all have those days, and ofcourse, some of the things that
we're talking about can apply ifyou just have one of those days
where you're just not feeling itand you don't wanna go out and
(05:55):
run and you just need to putyour shoes on and go out and run
anyway, because chances areyou're gonna feel better
afterwards.
But more of what we're talkingabout is a.
A theme, right?
If you're noticing a theme and apattern of run after run, after
one run or week after week oreven month after month, you're
starting to lose that spark andlose that joy and running is
(06:17):
just becoming a chore andsomething that you have to do or
something that you should do.
That's more of what we'retalking about today, and what we
want you to understand is yes,it doesn't mean anything about
you as a runner.
Because I think that I would saythat this does happen to
probably everybody.
I know you, I don't like togeneralize, but every runner,
(06:38):
most runners,
Kevin (06:39):
all of them,
Angie (06:40):
99% of runners have probably experienced this at
some point in time.
And it also doesn't mean thatyou're lazy.
It doesn't mean that you'rebroken.
It doesn't mean that somethingis wrong with you.
It just means that somethingdeeper is going on that needs
your attention.
And it could be physical, itcould be mental, and today we're
gonna.
(07:00):
Talk about all of those thingsbecause it's not about forcing
yourself into loving runningagain, it's not about trying to
find more motivation.
It's more remembering why youstarted and then reconnecting to
a new, even stronger version ofyourself.
Because sometimes those thingsshift, and we talked about this
(07:21):
last week in our episode 4 0 7,where we dug into the identity
shift that you need to take orthat you need to.
Undergo in.
When you start to run after 40and turn into more of a lifelong
runner, maybe the reason thatyou started running isn't
motivating you anymore.
And I think that most runnerscan probably say that unless you
(07:44):
are very new in your runningjourney.
I think that a lot of runnerswill tell you that their desire
and their drive for running haschanged over the years.
And so maybe that's where youare.
Maybe you're just.
Fading in your old desire anddrive, and you're not really
quite sure what that looks likeright now.
And so today we're gonna reallytalk about three big reasons
(08:07):
that you lose the spark forrunning.
We're gonna talk about why thishappens, and then of course, how
to respond, what you can do toget this spark back so that you
can go back out there, feelmotivated, feel joyful, feel.
Good while you're running andreally know why you're doing it
other than just, oh, it's goodfor me, or it's good for my
health, or, this is what I'vealways done.
(08:29):
There's a lot of people thatjust fall into that trap of I
gotta, I guess I should go outfor a run today.
Wouldn't you rather want to goout for a run and look forward
to your runs?
So let's jump into number one,which is running became a should
instead of.
A want.
And I think that this happens alot to us.
Kevin (08:51):
I think this has happened to me probably five or six times
throughout my running journey.
Okay.
my journey's been, that's
Angie (08:58):
pretty good for what, 30 years?
Kevin (09:00):
Yes.
Almost
Angie (09:01):
30
Kevin (09:02):
years.
No, 30 years.
Angie (09:03):
Oh, wow.
Kevin (09:03):
Yeah.
30 years.
You're,
Angie (09:04):
you're at that point uhhuh.
Kevin (09:05):
Yeah.
No, when you said it, I quicklydid the math in my head.
I'm like, Nope.
that's right.
Oh,
Angie (09:08):
damn.
Kevin (09:09):
But.
One of the first times was whenI flipped from running on a team
to running by myself.
Yeah.
Because running the existence ofrunning just completely changed.
And I stopped running for a fewmonths and had to figure out, do
I even want to do this anymore?
That's why your whole idea ofshould versus want when it's
practice.
Yeah.
And you go to practice becausethat's what you do.
(09:29):
Because that's what you'resupposed to do.
Yep.
There's practice Monday throughFriday.
you.
It's not, it's beyond a should.
Yeah.
It's just an automatic, this iswhat I do.
So it's so much of my identity.
And then when I wasn't on theteam anymore, it really
completely went to, do I want todo this at all?
And that was the first time thatI was like, I'm not doing this
unless I kind, I lose some ofthat should and throughout
(09:51):
running years, sometimes it'sgoing back to a feeling of
should, and I think a lot of usdo that If you pick various
goals and you're following astrict schedule on that, you get
into this feeling of, I have todo this thing today.
I have to do this, I have to dothat.
And you lose some of the, butwhy do I actually want to do it?
And if you occasionally get thatfeeling, that's fine.
(10:12):
On a day-to-day basis, youpointed out this is something
where day after day, week afterweek, are you feeling that?
You're just dragging yourselfout the door instead of actually
enjoying actually wanting to goout and do the thing.
That doesn't mean that you'relike leaping out the door.
That doesn't mean that it'sgonna feel amazing every time
you go out, but when I got uptoday, I wanted to go for a run.
(10:33):
My legs were a little sore fromyesterday, but I still wanted to
go out and do the thing today.
Angie (10:38):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because for me it
really.
Went from a should to a wantversus a want to a should.
Like we're talking right nowabout people that wanted to run
and it's becoming I should goout and run.
Whereas for me, it was I shouldgo out and run so that I can
(10:59):
burn calories into well.
Do I actually want to run?
I had to make that shift earlyon in my running journey because
running was never a desiredthing for me.
It was always something that Ihad to do, I was forced to do.
I was punished, through mysports and was forced to go out
and run.
And then when I moved intocollege and started running on
(11:22):
my own without someone blowing awhistle at me, then it was, I
should do this so that I canlose weight or so that I can
maintain my weight or.
Whatever, fill in the blankreason I got, but it, there was
never like, oh, I really want togo out and run today.
Kevin (11:36):
And have you made it to that point you like there are
multiple days now that you'relike, yes, I want to go out and
run.
Angie (11:41):
So I think that I moved into that want to, when I
decided that I was a runner,right?
Because for a long time, andI've talked to about this many
times on the podcast, that Inever considered myself a
runner.
And so when I.
Called decided to call myself arunner.
That is, I think when I shiftedover into, I want to start going
out to run because this is goodfor me because I wanna get
(12:02):
stronger because I wanna see ifI could get faster because I had
race goals, whatever these areother things are.
And because I wanted to go outand run with my friends, right?
running became a part of mysocial life as well.
But I've also.
Flipped.
I've also noticed that I havehad these periods of time, even
after deciding to run andwanting to run, where I've
(12:23):
started to fall back into that,I should go do this because I'm
still a runner, or because I'm arunning coach or because I have
this podcast called Real LifeRunners.
Who the heck would I be if I.
Decided I wasn't runninganymore.
Like it, it, there are stillthose periods of time that I
have gone through, even over thelast decade where I have gone
(12:44):
from a want into a should andthen back into a want.
I.
Kevin (12:48):
It's a matter of how long you hang out and that should,
there are some times that youcould argue that all the things
you just said help you maintainconsistency.
Yeah.
They help you move beyond, likesuper motivated and they're just
some facts of identity that helpyou maintain the consistency
like you've declared, I'm arunner, I've got a running
podcast.
there are.
Things that kind of say, even ifyou're not feeling it that day,
(13:10):
that you're still gonna go outand do it.
Yeah, and I don't know if that'sa should or a wand, it's just
what it is.
It might be more neutral.
Yeah.
Than I should do this.
I want to do this, it's just I'mgoing to do this.
Angie (13:20):
Yeah.
And I think that COVID reallygave a lot of people the
opportunity to.
Decide if they, A lot of peoplebecame runners during the
pandemic and decided that theywanted to start doing something.
They needed a new challenge,they wanted a way to stay
healthy, and the gym was takenaway, or other things were taken
away and all of a sudden runningwas the thing that was there
(13:40):
that they still had access to.
And then there were a lot ofpeople, I think me included that
was, I was social running was apart of my social life and I did
races and other things.
And now it's oh, all of that gotjust got taken away from me.
So now is this something that Iwanna keep doing?
And like the answer at that timewas definitely a yes for me.
Kevin (13:58):
Yeah.
Races being taken away, maderunning a very interesting
thing.
Because could you still besocial?
Like when it first started, dowe need a socially distance run?
It was a very interesting thing.
Yeah.
But a lot of people, you'reright.
Got into running because of thegym shut down and you could
still get outside and go run.
You get outside and go cycle.
I think cycling took off also.
But it was just things that youwere allowed to do outside and
they're so good for you.
(14:19):
But then once gyms reopened,people now decided, is this
still something that I want todo?
Or is this like a habit that Ifeel more compelled to do?
It gave people the opportunityto ask that question.
Angie (14:30):
Yeah, and I think that's a, an important question for all
of us to ask ourselves on arelatively regular basis.
maybe some people more regularthan others, but if running is
feeling more like an obligationor something that I have to do
or that I should do right now,maybe we can start to look at it
and see it more as anopportunity to explore new goals
(14:53):
or new terrains or newchallenges.
And see other sides of running.
I think that's what I've startedto look at running.
When I have gone through this,and I've gone through this
relatively recently as well ofrunning is just a part of my
health routine.
this is just what I do onTuesdays, Thursdays and
Saturdays.
I run on Monday, Wednesday, andFriday I lift and this is my
(15:14):
routine and that's totally fine.
If that's you, this is great.
there's nothing wrong with this,but if you notice yourself.
Not looking forward to your runsor dreading your runs or really
oh, do I really have to go outand do this today?
It can be an opportunity for youto just start to question it and
decide, okay, do I wanna keeprunning?
Or do I wanna try something elseout?
(15:36):
Or do I wanna try differenttypes of runs out as well?
And that can be differentdistances.
If you are someone that's beendoing marathons or half
marathons longer distances,maybe you would have a lot more
fun getting into shorter raceslike five Ks or 10 Ks if you've
been running on the roads.
What about trying out trails orother things like that?
There's a lot of different waysthat you can run, and I think
(15:59):
that we get stuck when we thinkthat running has to.
Count for something.
we have to get in 45 minutes oran hour, I have to run at least
three miles for it to count.
That's when we start to get intotrouble because then running
becomes this obligation.
It becomes this thing that wehave to do or this amount of
(16:19):
running that we need to do.
But what if it could just be funand one of the ways that I
instituted this for me was whatif I just went.
Out to run for 20 minutes or fortwo miles, like gasp, right?
and I know that might soundpretentious to some people, but
there was a point in time wherein my mind if it was anything
less than five miles, it didn'treally count.
(16:41):
And that is a very dangerousmindset to be in.
and dangerous is obviouslyrelative, but why in the world
did I put that rule on myself?
Kevin (16:50):
Yeah, because five miles is probably a certain time on
the clock also.
Angie (16:54):
I think that it was also because when I was training for
half marathons, that wastypically, that was the low run,
that was my weekday run.
that was just my quote unquote,normal weekday run was four five
miles.
So why in the world would I everrun anything less than that?
Kevin (17:06):
Yeah, that's funny.
I haven't even thought about ituntil, just now as you said it,
but when we head outta theneighborhood, if I turn right, I
know it's gonna be a shorterrun.
If I turn left, it's gonna be alonger run.
I.
It doesn't have to be like
Angie (17:18):
you can turn around at any point in time.
Like you can make it an out andback.
Kevin (17:22):
Yes, I could.
I could.
I could turn right and thenactually go through that one
intersection.
Go longer that direction.
Yeah.
But.
In my head, I just, I knowusually it's shorter if I go to
the right and longer if I go tothe left.
Yeah.
But if I take that one stepfurther, going to the right
could then have negativejudgment on it.
Oh, I chose the short optiontoday.
Angie (17:38):
Yeah.
Kevin (17:39):
Like it's, and it's just so close because I already have
it in my head, labeled shorter,longer.
So that shorter, longer can thengo into better, worse.
Yeah.
Like it could very easily slidethere and.
Right now I am at neutral, and Ithink that's another point that
I really want to hit on here, isit doesn't have to be you
should, you have to do thisthing or you really want to do
(18:00):
this thing.
It's super fun.
You can have neutral.
That's, yes, that's what youpointed out is Running is the
thing that I do.
With my general fitness routine,and I have it on these days of
the week.
Yeah.
It's scheduled.
It's not a, I have to do it.
It's just what it is.
It can be neutral.
It's when things slide fromneutral into an obligation that
you start going the otherdirection.
And that's when maybe try andadd some different variety to
(18:21):
it.
We'll pick a different goal,pick a different distance, pick
something else that's gonnachange up the routine.
That makes things a little bitmore interesting and leaves the
obligation.
Angie (18:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that leads perfectlyinto reason number two, that a
lot of people lose the spark,and that's physical or em
emotional burnout, which isreally over training, under
recovering constant life stressor hormonal shifts.
So a lot of you women that I'vebeen talking to over the last
few months, like women over 40,were going through
(18:51):
perimenopause.
If you're over 50, maybe you'vealready gone through menopause
and you're in your post meau.
Menopause era.
These hormone shifts play a hugerole in how our body responds to
running and exercise and.
It can leave us feeling reallyexhausted in all of the ways.
Physically exhausted, mentallyexhausted, and running can be
(19:11):
just, again, one more thing thatwe have to do.
One more obligation, one thing,one more thing that's draining
our energy.
And a lot of women, especiallyif you are still training in the
way that you used to train inyour twenties, in your thirties,
you're going out and you feellike you have to run five miles
every time, and it has to be at.
(19:32):
Eight minute pace or nine minutepace, whatever arbitrary number
you've chosen for yourself.
Like when I go out, I run fivemiles in 45 minutes, like that's
what I do.
And all of a sudden that fivemile run is now taking 46, 47,
48, gasp, 50 oh no minutes.
It
Kevin (19:50):
starts with a different number.
It's a completely differentthing,
Angie (19:52):
right?
But this is what happens.
And then not only do you havethe physical burnout that you
are experiencing because you arenow pushing your body too hard,
you are now.
Probably feeling a level ofshame around it, a level of
disappointment or confusion orfrustration or annoyance.
there's all these other emotionsthat can be bundled up in your
(20:14):
body's response to exercise andall of a sudden it's not feeling
as good and what does this mean?
And now you might be questioningyourself as a runner, and that's
going to lead to a wholesnowball into that emotional
side of burnout as well,
Kevin (20:28):
right?
in your 45 feet.
45 minute, five mile, analogythere.
Angie (20:33):
Yeah.
Kevin (20:33):
You can either overtrain yourself and keep trying to make
sure that you hit the 45minutes.
Or deal with the mental judgmentof allowing it to actually still
feel the way that it's supposedto feel.
Yeah.
If it's an easier run, if it's amoderate run.
whatever it is, allow it to feelthe same, but then the clock is
different.
Yeah.
And you've got that mental,whatever hangup is dealing with.
(20:54):
Or you're like, I, no, I'm, Idon't wanna deal with that
mental hangup, so I'm just gonnakeep pushing harder and harder.
these are bad choices.
Angie (21:00):
Yeah, because you, maybe you have done that and you're
like, okay, you know what, I'mjust gonna go out and run.
And then you keep seeing thatsame number or that same pace on
your watch, and it keeps makingyou feel worse and worse.
And you're like, I don't likethe way this feels, so I'm just
gonna push myself harder.
But then you're burning yourselfout physically.
Kevin (21:15):
Do you want to.
Feel it mentally, or do youwanna feel it physically?
Because both of them are gonnapose a challenge.
Angie (21:20):
and they're both going to happen.
Kevin (21:21):
That's the other thing is they're both gonna happen.
'cause even if you continue totrying to make sure that you hit
your five miles and 45 minutes,that's going to start feeling
harder and harder.
Yep.
And then you're gonna have thejudgment on, this shouldn't feel
this hard anymore.
So that judgment's gonna bethere anyway.
So you might as well just run toyour comfort.
Angie (21:38):
and the more you push yourself harder, the more you
are putting your system intothat chronic stress mode and
over training mode so that yourbody isn't recovering and so
your body, it's just going tokeep getting harder and harder.
You're putting yourself into.
A non winnable game,essentially.
Yes.
Because by, oh, by continuing topush and trying to hit those
(21:58):
numbers, you are forcing morestress onto your system.
You're not recovering so yourbody's not adapting.
And when you get intoperimenopause and post menopause
and you start experiencing thesehormone shifts, those hormone
shifts.
Mean that your body cannot adaptto stress in the same way.
It cannot adapt as easily, andso running does feel harder for
(22:21):
a lot of people.
It is time where we might haveto slow ourselves down a little
bit, and that doesn't mean thatyou are, you have to get slower
when you're aging, and so pleasedon't hear me wrong.
It just means that every singlerun can't feel hard.
Every single run can't be at thesame pace.
Like you're going to have to getbetter.
At listening to your body andhonoring your body and really
(22:44):
reconnecting to what your newbody needs in this next phase of
life.
Kevin (22:49):
Yeah, and one of the things that we highlight here is
making sure that you areprioritizing recovery.
Because if you keep pushingyourself.
Even when you're trying to getthe recovery, you're like, I'm
trying to get enough sleep.
If your hormones are all out ofwhack, if you're over training
and you're not getting enoughfood into your body, sleep is
not gonna go very well for you.
Yeah.
if you're not getting theappropriate levels of sleep,
it's hard to then push yourself,even if you're like, oh, I'm not
(23:10):
pushing every single day.
You might still be on the otherside of not recovering from what
it is that you're doing.
Yeah.
If you're not fuelingappropriately, if you're not
sleeping appropriately, if thestress levels are messing with
you throughout the day, thatyour stress levels are generally
high.
Day in, day out, then the runs,even if you're trying to balance
easy and harder runs, everythingfeels a little bit harder
(23:31):
because the background stress isa little bit higher.
Yeah.
So that's not helping things,and then you try and take a nap
to recover from it.
I don't know when everybody'sfitting in a nap, but you try to
sleep to recover from this andmaybe sleep is not coming as
smoothly as it used to become.
Angie (23:45):
Yeah, and I think that a big part of this comes from that
need to push and.
It can be very helpful when weactually allow ourselves to have
seasons, and this is one of thereasons that we love training
cycles in the way that we coachour athletes is, You, it's not
the best choice for you to betraining for a race at all times
(24:06):
of the year.
Like it's much healthier.
It's going to be much moreenjoyable.
It's going to lead to lessplateau and less decline if you
are changing up the point ofyour training cycle and not just
training for a marathon everysingle cycle.
Allowing for seasons of ebb andflow, allowing for seasons where
you're focusing more onstrength, where you're focusing
(24:28):
more on speed, where you'refocusing more on distance.
And you are also, again,prioritizing that recovery.
But when you change up thefocus, that can get back to
point number one that we madehere of making it.
Running different, but it's alsogoing to help you avoid the
physical and emotional burnoutthat can come when you notice
that your body's not respondingto running the same way that it
(24:50):
used to.
Kevin (24:50):
Yeah.
A variety of different reasonsfor running, not from one day to
the next.
Not constantly shifting, butevery few months shift the
overall focus and purpose of thegeneral training plan.
If you're like, oh, but I loveto have races.
Not that you have to have races,but that you just actually truly
love and enjoy all of the races.
Maybe mix up the race distances.
(25:11):
Yeah, because that alone can Addsome variety to the year.
Angie (25:14):
Or if you wa like just love five Ks, then great.
But then maybe don't race all ofthem, maybe.
Good point.
Go out for one and you're like,okay, you know what?
I'm gonna go all in on this one.
I'm gonna see what I can do, andthen go out for the next one and
run it with your kids, or run itwith your friend, or just go out
and have fun.
Wear a costume.
there's different ways that youcan experience.
Even the same race distance.
(25:35):
So there's different things thatyou can do so that you
experience running differentlyversus just having to grind and
push really hard and try to PRevery time.
Kevin (25:44):
Put a costume on, London Marathon just happened.
Yeah.
The number of costumes at thisthing.
People whose commentary waslike, I just got passed from by
a banana, but hopefully I canstay ahead of that person
Dressed as a minion.
Yeah, because.
Because the banana was going fora world record, so they're
flying.
Yeah.
But maybe this person's just ina costume for the enjoyment of
It's bonkers what's going on inthat race.
Angie (26:03):
Yeah.
But when we prioritize recoveryand specifically nervous system
regulation, this can really helpus to avoid both physical and
mental burnout.
Because if you notice that youare in that season where you're
feeling burnt out, you'refeeling overwhelmed, you're just
like I, it is a struggle for meto get out the door every single
day.
Ask yourself like, how is mynervous system feeling?
(26:25):
And I know that seems like aweird question because most of
you that aren't.
in the same world as I live inthat, where I'm reading about
this and I'm in this constantly,most of us don't like walk
around saying like, how is mynervous system today?
I
Kevin (26:37):
live with you.
I still don't walk aroundsaying, how is my, you caught me
with that question.
I
Angie (26:41):
don't actually even say that to myself.
Kevin (26:43):
That's not true.
She journals about it for 20minutes every morning.
Angie (26:46):
Oh, get out here.
But it is we can take those.
Little breaks and resetsthroughout the day where we can
just like, take a deep breath,check in with ourselves and
notice am I tense right now?
Am I feeling a little fried?
Do I feel relaxed?
Like it's really just askingyourself how you're feeling on
any given day or at any point inthe day.
Kevin (27:03):
That is a much more inviting way, just how am I
feeling right now?
And pausing for a few moments,taking a few deep breaths.
Yeah.
And honestly answering thatquestion.
Not, I don't have time to answerthis ridiculous question.
I have things to accomplish.
Yeah, I bet you're feeling alittle frazzled.
is probably how you're feelingright now.
Angie (27:18):
And stress is stress.
Like the way that I like tothink about stress is that we
have one stress bucket and allof the different stresses in
your life all go into that samebucket.
So running is a physical stresson the body.
yes, there is a stress relief.
there's a stress relievingaspect to running.
For sure, but not if you'rerunning hard all the time and
(27:40):
not if you are feeling shamearound your pace and not if
you're frustrated and annoyed byyour running.
Now all of a sudden this thingthat maybe used to be a stress
reliever is now creating morestress in your life.
And again, it's all being addedto that same stress bucket.
And when that bucket starts tooverflow, that's when we get
into trouble.
That's when we get into burnoutand injury and illness because
(28:03):
there's only so much stress thatyour body can take.
Kevin (28:06):
Yeah, it's such an interesting concept because so
many people look at running as away to relieve stress.
But as running starts feelingdifferent, whether it's just
actually the way it feels inyour body or the times and
distances that you're actuallyseeing.
All of them then lead to, canvery easily lead to mental
stresses so that happy, joyfultime might now just be, that
(28:29):
might be one of the thingsthat's leading it to more
dreadful, I still should do thisthing, even though it's not as
enjoyable, part of the enjoymentmight be being lost because
you're throwing your ownjudgment on top of it.
Angie (28:40):
Yeah, and so one of the ways that you can help, if you
notice that you are getting intophysical or emotional burnout,
one of the ways that you can dois, number one, just take a
break from running for a littlebit.
That is definitely an option.
But if that feels toofarfetched, maybe just change
what you're doing again, right?
Like instead of going off onlonger runs, try some shorter
runs, try some slower runs, trysome speed work, try walks or
(29:04):
trails or new locations like.
Those changing those littledetails can really make running
feel so much different.
what about you?
have you ever gone through aperiod of physical or emotional
or mental burnout with running?
Kevin (29:18):
Yes.
Angie (29:19):
When it, when's the time that you're thinking of that you
can think of that, maybe morerecently or.
back, or earlier in your runningyears.
Kevin (29:29):
my fir literally, it goes back to what I started the thing
with is that is the first timethat I really felt this burnout,
complete loss of spark was whenI first got into trying to run
on my own.
And I took.
October, November, December,January off of running.
Like I took multiple months offof running Yeah.
To try and figure out is thissomething I'm even going to miss
(29:50):
if I don't do it.
And it turned out that I didmiss it.
Angie (29:52):
Yeah.
What about this year, like afteryour a hundred mile this year,
while you were in that cycle ofillness for a little while
there?
what do you think was happeningin your body?
Do you think that was a kind ofa physical burnout that your
body was putting on top of you?
Kevin (30:05):
It might have been a physical burnout.
It definitely wasn't a mentalburnout, and it took me a little
bit to not to overcome themental frustration of not being
able to keep running as much asI wanted.
Yeah, that was a tricky part.
Angie (30:17):
Yeah.
I think that we need to talk alittle bit about that too,
because there is that aspect,like we've talked about.
How we can get upset that we'reour paces and our distances
might not be the same, but ifyour body is telling you
physically you need to rest andyou're burning out, but then
that causes more emotionalstress because you then can't
run.
(30:37):
That's a whole nother.
Aspect that we haven't reallyaddressed yet.
Kevin (30:41):
You kinda have to accept, like if my body is saying you're
getting sick every few weeks,and every time you tell them
what was happening too.
that's what was happening.
we've covered this I think on aprevious one that essentially I
was getting sick almost everyfour-ish weeks.
Angie (30:54):
It was like.
Every three weeks.
Kevin (30:55):
Every three weeks.
But for several months.
Yeah.
Like for several months this washappening that like once a month
I would get super, super sickand basically be exhausted and
in bed on one of the days of theweekend, I usually would just
lose a Sunday.
which is, was real rough on youalso because then you know, I'm
sick, you're not sure what'sgoing on.
I also can't do anything aroundthe house.
(31:15):
I'm useless on that day.
There's a lot of stuff that I'mfeeling on that there's a lot of
stuff that you are feeling offthat, and ultimately the answer
is you probably just need tocalm down.
Pull back a little bit.
Make sure that you are takingcare of your body, that you are
listening to it on the runs.
Also that you're giving yourselfthe appropriate rest that.
because it always draws back, itpulls me back to 2017 where I
(31:40):
was so clearly overdoing it, andthat year led to seizures.
This year is just getting reallysick and stuck in bed, and I'm
just exhausted and taking napsall day long.
is that just one step before, isit only hitting that Because I'm
on meds, so I'm not having aseizure like.
Otherwise, is that what theresult would've been?
(32:00):
it's tricky.
And so when this was happening,I was like, I don't, I really
want to be able to go out andrun, but I can't, and I'm trying
to give myself more grace.
I've been doing it literallysince 2018 that if I'm up too
late, if I'm really feelingexhausted, if school is covering
too much, like whatever thething is, if I'm, like, I think
(32:22):
I'm long term gonna be betterserved with an off day.
I think that I've been better atdoing that as I was reaching a
goal a hundred mile race.
I may have been overruling mybody more often than I had been
in the previous five years.
Angie (32:37):
Yeah.
And it came back to haunt youlike in the months following
your a hundred, and I thinkthat's part of what was.
Annoying and frustrated.
I shouldn't say annoying.
no, I was annoyed and I wasfrustrated with you and it, and
then I felt guilty for feelingthat way because you felt like
crap and so clearly your bodywas telling you, Hey, you need
to be in bed all day today.
And it was bothering me, notjust because.
(33:00):
I was losing you for a day andyou couldn't help out around the
house, but because I knew deepdown that you weren't taking
care of yourself in the way thatyou needed to.
And I was like, why aren't youjust taking care of yourself?
And so that was annoying to mebecause I can't force feed you.
I can't, there's a lot of thingsI can take on in our house and
in our, in the business and allthese things, but I can't.
(33:21):
Take care of you physically.
that is your job to feedyourself well, to make sure
you're getting enough rest andhydration and all of the things.
And that wasn't happening.
And so that's part of where myfrustration came in.
And because your body was givingyou signals and you were just
pushing through,
Kevin (33:39):
I think that gets into, the should versus want to is it
was such a combo is it was notjust a thing that I felt like I
should be doing to make surethat I was properly training.
Yeah.
But I was.
I was enjoying the trainingprocess.
Angie (33:52):
Yeah.
You really wanted to, and youwere very much enjoying training
for your a hundred miles like
Kevin (33:56):
I really was.
But there also was definitely acomponent of should,'cause
there's a really long distancerace coming up and I need,
wanted to make sure I was wellprepared for it.
it's still in the background.
You still have to take care ofyourself.
Yeah.
It's, it is not exactly on, onthe same topic, but that part is
still, there is, what I wasdoing was different.
it connects to this guy is ifyou're gonna change things up,
make sure that you're stillphysically caring for yourself
(34:18):
along the way.
If, if you go that direction, ifyou're like, you know what, I'm
gonna run ridiculously longdistances.
Yeah.
Extra food is going to be yourfriend.
Angie (34:26):
Always extra food.
Yeah.
but You wouldn't say that duringthis period of time, you've
really, you really lost yourspark for running because you
wanted to be doing everythingyou really wanted.
Yeah.
But your body was basicallysaying no.
Yeah.
Kevin (34:38):
No, I definitely still had spark.
Yeah.
I, and I wouldn't say I hadenergy.
and that's
Angie (34:43):
where I think where it gets tricky, right?
Because there, emotionally andmentally, you were feeling one
thing about wanting to go outand do this, but your body was
telling you that.
There was something that neededyour attention here.
Kevin (34:56):
Yeah.
And ultimately that is aphysical issue, like that was
physical burnout.
mentally I was still there,which is a weird combo.
'cause very often they cometogether.
so that was definitely a, justactually really take care of
your body and support it so thatwhatever mental spark you have,
you can follow that.
Angie (35:14):
And I think too, after your a hundred, you wanted to
jump in pretty quickly.
I think that you took.
A little bit of time off, butthen you wanted to jump in and
underestimated just how muchdamage was done on your body in
that a hundred miles.
Running a hundred miles takes avery large toll on your body.
And I think that you were tryingto get back into it'cause you
(35:35):
felt okay overall.
Like I know that you weren'tjust trying to go out and do
anything stupid, and you'relike, no, I feel okay.
But then you'd go out and you'drun consistently for a week or
so, and then you'd end up, inbed again with.
Sick over the weekend.
Yeah.
So like your body was tellingyou like, no, I'm not recovered
yet.
And there are so many times thatrunners experience this, and
maybe not to the extent ofrunning a hundred miles and then
(35:58):
needing to take a whole day inbed, but there are these signals
that we often override, andthat's where I'm just inviting
everyone to start to look atthose a little bit differently
and give your body what itneeds.
And so that I think takes usinto.
Number three, like the bigreason, the third big reason
where.
You might have lost your spark,and that is that you've outgrown
(36:22):
your old identity.
And we dug into this a lot inour last episode, but we
definitely need to touch on thistoday because that runner that
you used to be, like Kevin'sbeen talking about how when he
was a collegiate high schoolrunner and then collegiate
competitive runner, that was oneversion of himself.
And when.
College ended and he decided, oractually when you, stopped
(36:44):
running for the team, incollege, you then had to figure
out, okay, what kind of a runneram I now?
Do I even want to be a runner?
And I think that a lot of peoplein this next phase of life.
After 40 perimenopause, postmenopause, whatever phase you're
in, maybe the runner that usedto be maybe you used to chase
goals and prs and times and havea certain image that you
(37:06):
associated with yourself, butthat might not fit who you are
right now.
The way you used to train mightbe differently than.
What you're hearing us tell youon the podcast and you're
starting to accept is oh, maybeI do need to shift the focus of
my training away from justmileage and just pace, and
really look into how do I getstronger?
(37:28):
How do I build muscle?
How do I build bone?
But wait, those were never myfocuses earlier in my training,
and I got good results before.
So really, is this really theway that I should be going?
All of that is normal, right?
and growth requires us to do newthings.
It requires us to set new goals.
It requires us to becomedifferent people, become a new
(37:53):
version of ourself, and thatfeels really weird.
I.
For a lot of people, and I thinkthat's when you're noticing that
maybe you're outgrowing that oldidentity, you're outgrowing.
Maybe it's because your body'sgiving you these signals and
you're experiencing some ofthese physical burnout,
emotional burnout.
You're noticing that your pacesare slowing and maybe you feel
(38:14):
like this new identity is almostbeing forced on onto you, which
can be part of that difficultywith this transition as well.
Kevin (38:21):
Yeah.
I mean it, most people resistchange.
Yeah.
if you could just stay whereyou're at, it seems like a much
safer, more comfortable place.
Even if the change is going tobe a positive, most people would
still opt to where they're atbecause they know the current
existence.
and so most, when a newexperience, a new way of running
is, like you said, it's pushedupon you, like you keep trying
(38:44):
to go out and train the same wayand you're getting slower or
you're feeling more exhausted,like whatever it is, it's just
not feeling the same.
The new thing is coming and youcan't really push it.
Off.
You can't pretend that it's notthere.
Pretending that it's not thereis going to lead to the burnout.
it's eventually going to lead tosome mental frustration.
You kinda have to accept it andbe like, look, we're gonna have
(39:04):
an evolution here.
If you went out and got a brandnew car and you went from
driving an SUV to driving asports car, you would not drive
the exact same way.
Like you wouldn't, like if I'mdriving a school bus and I drive
a Corvette, the way I'm going tomerge onto the highway are two
very different activities.
So when your body is havingchanges to it, and we're all
(39:26):
going into our new little sportscars.
Did you like the order?
I put those things in.
I was
Angie (39:29):
just about to make a comment on that.
How there's a lot of people thatgo from sports cars into
minivans.
Kevin (39:34):
no.
We're going the other direction.
Yeah.
Now, in your Corvette body, youmight have to change the way
that you're.
Training the way that you'resetting goals, the way that
you're doing things, and it'snot I need to do this because
I'm getting older.
It's no, the equipment isworking differently, and so
you're going to need to traindifferently.
Like when you hit the gas pedal,it's going to have a different
(39:56):
reaction.
You have to accept that thesports car accelerates
different.
You can do things in the sportscar that you couldn't
necessarily do in the minivan,and so have some fun with some
shorter things because they'regonna be a blast.
And you can do that.
Your body is fully capable ofthat.
And it might not be somethingthat you're like, oh yeah, I
would totally think of doingsomething shorter and faster.
(40:17):
A lot of people move from doingshorter things.
They can't quite go as fast onthat, and they move towards
running a half marathon, amarathon, and it doesn't really
occur to them to go the otherdirection and pull it back to a
5K, but it could be a blast.
Angie (40:29):
Or they see that decreasing their distance is a
failure.
because there's a lot of peoplethat have been doing the longer
distances, half marathons, andtheir body's not responding the
same way, and they think, okay,maybe I just can't handle this
distance anymore.
So they see the act of pullingback and going shorter distances
as a failure.
Kevin (40:48):
Yeah, I mean there's all sorts of ways that you can try
and quantify this.
You go to races, they puteverybody into five year age
group buckets, so maybe youmight not be able to hit the
same PR that you could 20, 30years ago.
But what about the PR withinthis five year age gap?
Yeah, age gap.
Yeah, The, there's a reason whythat, you can look online and
find these age gradedcalculators and figure out what
(41:09):
is my time equivalent.
There's, I forget what the raceis, but they do every single
person in the race based off oftheir like, age score.
So it doesn't really matter whatyour finishing time is, it goes
into a calculator and theyfigure out who wins it.
So like a 12-year-old or an84-year-old could win it in that
year because they had the besthuge grade performance.
Oh,
Angie (41:26):
that's
Kevin (41:26):
cool.
Yeah, it's a very interestingthing.
It's not necessarily the firstperson to cross the line.
This is an actual biologicalthing that we have to accept.
That doesn't mean that you needto stop chasing prs.
It just means that you have tohave maybe a new way of looking
at prs, maybe a new way oftraining for those prs.
I.
Angie (41:44):
Right, and just really redefining what success looks
like in general.
Like maybe it's not a PRanymore, maybe it's having more
fun.
It's running with friends.
It's feeling really strong asyou cross the finish line or
standing on the starting line.
Maybe it's smiling more whenyou're out there racing or high
fiving.
People along the routes andstopping to pet the dogs.
(42:07):
there's so many different waysthat you can redefine what
success looks like.
And I love seeing the postsinside of our group, like inside
of the team, about when peoplepost about their races.
It's not just about the PR.
People talk about some of thethings that I just mentioned.
That's where I got some of theseexamples of I got to PET 13 dogs
on the run today and that was asuccessful day for that person.
(42:28):
And I absolutely love thatbecause.
That is one way that running isbringing more joy into your
life.
If you love dogs and if you lovestopping to pet dogs and you can
do more of that while you'rerunning, like that's just going
to allow you to see and pet moredogs.
Like I love exploring places onfoot, and I'm gonna be able to
see more of that place when I'mrunning because I can cover more
(42:51):
distance in a shorter period oftime versus if I'm just walking
around the city.
So there's a lot of differentways that we can gain joy and.
Get that spark in, but we haveto be able to give ourself
permission to do that.
And I think that's really key.
And just understanding, okay,it's okay if running is playing
a different role in my life.
If it looks different, I'm stilla runner.
(43:13):
There's nothing wrong with me.
I'm just going to explore thisnew aspect and this new running
identity that I'm still creatingfor myself.
And that can be very exciting.
Kevin (43:22):
that's the thing is it's always a runner identity that
you're still creating.
Like it's, you would not dothings the same way in almost
any other aspect.
But we like to cling to running.
I definitely do not teach thesame way that I did when I was
first hired.
I don't teach the same way thatI did five years ago.
Like my, my.
Teaching has evolved, mycoaching has evolved, and so it
(43:42):
makes sense that my runningidentity would also evolve.
I don't parent the same way.
We have very different kids.
If I tried to parent them thesame way I did when they were
one That would be veryinteresting results to that.
Angie (43:52):
they might crash out on you.
Kevin (43:54):
They would totally start tweaking, I think is, I think I
nailed that one.
but could you imagine trying tolike, cut up their food and
airplane it into them?
that would just be hysterical.
They would lose it, but.
We change all these otherthings.
It makes perfect sense that wewould adjust the way that we
interact with other peoplearound us as they change.
But suddenly we're like, this isthe way that I run.
(44:15):
This is the way I've always ran,so that's what I'm going to do.
No, it all evolves and thatacceptance that everything is
evolving, it's yes.
Technically the, you're gettinga little bit older and that's
why there's some evolution, butthat's the evolution to all of
it.
You're getting older, you'realso getting wiser.
You're getting more experiencedin all of these things, and you
might be doing it for differentreasons along the way.
Evolution is just naturallyoccurring.
Angie (44:37):
And so it's really important for us to remember
that running isn't justsomething that you do.
It is a part.
Not all, but a part of who youare.
It is a part.
Of how you live.
It's a way that you can stayconnected to yourself, to your
strength, to your freedom.
And freedom's a really big partof why I love running.
Because running gives me thatfreedom not only to explore, but
(44:58):
also to stay strong in my bodyand to be able to jump in and do
whatever the heck I want, withmy kids, or climbing stairs or
going out for hikes.
Like I wanna be in good enoughshape, or I can, my body doesn't
limit me.
And that is one of the thingsthat I think.
Running can bring every singleperson regardless of distance or
speed or any of that.
(45:19):
So what I would love to offeryou today as our listeners is to
reconnect to joy and figure out.
Even if it's just one run, pickone run this week with zero that
has zero pace or distance goal,just go out and run and maybe
notice the birds around you ornotice the trees or just like go
(45:42):
out and decide, all right, I'mgonna run for a while and then
I'm gonna turn around and gohome.
Maybe you can do that.
If you need to put a time on it,fine.
Put a time on it.
I'm gonna go out and run for 20minutes.
Maybe pick a time that's shorterthan the distance that you
normally do and see how thatfeels.
Does it feel really weird?
Does it feel, like not enough?
Like how does it feel in yourbody?
(46:04):
When you go out and do a shorterrun or a slower run, try to
change up your running routine alittle bit and see how it feels
and see if maybe that can helpyou to reignite your spark.
Kevin (46:15):
I like it.
you can mix things up for safetyprotocols.
Sometimes there's certain routesthat you already know, like just
from a practical safetyperspective, try running that
route in reverse.
Honestly, if I do my normal loopand I run it backwards, there
are trees that I'm like, Ididn't even know there was a
tree there.
Yeah.
It's true.
it's 30 feet tall.
Angie (46:30):
Yep.
Absolutely.
So one of the ways that you canreignite that spark for your
running is to join our five daychallenge running reignited.
Head over to real liferunners.com/challenge to get
yourself signed up for, today.
And also, feel free to sharethis episode, share the
challenge with anybody that youthink could use this like
(46:51):
reignited spark.
We wanna show you how to run inthe second phase of your life.
After 40 perimenopause, postmenopause so that you can.
Step into the strong andempowered runner and woman that
you know that you have inside ofyou.
Like this is the thing is ifyou're hearing this and it's
(47:12):
sparking something in you, youknow that there is a different,
stronger version of yourself.
And if you're.
Wondering, I'm here to tell youthat there is, so I would love
to invite you to join thechallenge.
It is going to be both aphysical and a mental challenge,
for you.
We're not just, it's not justabout going out and running five
days out of the week.
That is not what this runningchallenge is about.
(47:34):
I.
It's getting going to help youlook at your running in a
different way, in a new way toprepare you the best for running
after 40 in perimenopause andpost menopause.
So check it out today, real liferunners.com/challenge and we
will see you on May 12th.
And as always, thanks forspending this time with us.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
(47:56):
408.
Now get out there and run yourlife.
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