June 26, 2025 • 52 mins
Let’s set the record straight: pain and injury are not just things runners have to live with. In this episode of the Real Life Runners podcast, we’re taking on one of the most damaging myths in the running world — the belief that hurting is normal, expected, or even necessary if you want to improve.
Spoiler alert: it’s not.
Yes, injuries are common — but that doesn’t make them inevitable. And accepting them as “part of the process” only keeps runners stuck in a frustrating cycle of pain, inconsistency, and burnout. We’re here to break that cycle.
We’ll share real-life stories from our own journey and from runners we’ve coached — and we’ll unpack some of the most common injury drivers, including muscle imbalances, overtraining, poor recovery habits, underfueling, and chronic stress.
More importantly, we’ll give you practical tools to run strong and stay healthy:
✅ Why strength training is non-negotiable
✅ How to personalize your plan to fit your life and body
✅ What proper recovery really looks like
✅ Why underfueling is sabotaging your progress (and how to fix it)
✅ How to stop outsourcing your intuition to your watch
✅ And the mindset shift that will help you run for the long haul, not just the next race
Running shouldn’t hurt. And it’s time we stop normalizing it. Whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been running for decades, this episode will challenge how you think about pain, progress, and what’s actually possible for you.
00:43 The Trigger: Challenging Common Narratives
02:02 Understanding Pain vs. Discomfort
04:31 The Harmful Impact of Some Medical Advice
05:32 Rant: Misguided Medical Opinions
08:56 Reframing Pain and Injury in Running
10:38 The Elite Athlete Dilemma
19:22 Consistency Over Intensity
22:45 5 Common Causes of Running Injuries
39:41 5 Ways To Avoid Injuries
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
If you've ever thought that pain is just part of the
running process or that pain isjust part of how you improve
this episode is for you, becausethe truth is just because
running injuries are common,that does not mean that they are
normal.
Injuries are not.
Normal.
Injuries don't have to be partof the process.
(00:21):
This is a hot take and I'mexcited to get into this with
you guys because I really wantyou to understand that running
injuries.
Are optional and that you mightnot hear from a lot of people.
So stay tuned.
(00:55):
Alright, so this is a gonna be afun episode today.
Welcome back to the podcasty'all.
Kevin (01:01):
This is gonna be a spicy episode.
Angie (01:02):
I like being spicy.
so a little background of whywe're doing this podcast right
now.
Was, I was scrolling throughInstagram and I saw a very
popular Instagram personnelpersonality, who is also a
doctor talking about an injurythat she sustained, and she just
blew it off yep, this is justwhat happens when you're
(01:24):
training hard, and it justinstantly just Shot me in the
heart because it is not, normal.
Injuries are not normal, and Ithink that this is one of those
narratives that is out therethat people don't even question,
that people just accept astruths because there are
statistics to back up a lot ofthese things.
Over 80% of runners get.
(01:45):
Injured at some point in theirlife.
Over half, over 50% of runnersget injured every single year.
And these are statistics that Iam working really hard to try to
start to reverse, to start toaffect even just a little bit
chipping at, chipping away at itlittle by little.
And I want to invite you intothat movement with me because
(02:06):
the truth is, injuries are notnormal.
Pain is not part of the process.
It is.
A very common experience that alot of runners have.
But the big thing that I wantyou to take away from this
episode is that just becauseit's common does not make it
normal.
Kevin (02:23):
Yeah.
I think there's a lot of nuancein that pain is not part of the
process.
Discomfort is going to be part,is involved.
Yes.
Angie (02:29):
Yes.
Kevin (02:30):
there are aspects of running that are a hundred
percent uncomfortable.
That in the moment you're like,man.
I, it would be more comfortableif I was sitting on the couch
right, than doing my eighthquarter repeat.
Like it is uncomfortable.
The third mile of a 5K.
Angie (02:44):
Yeah.
When your legs get that lactateburn, that is not a comfortable
sensation.
Kevin (02:49):
No.
That is uncomfortable, but thatis very different from pain,
especially.
Day in, day out pain.
That is not okay.
Angie (02:56):
And especially when it pain then turns into injury.
Yeah.
Because I think that there, thisis a spectrum that we're talking
about, so I agree.
I think that discomfort we'vegot nuance
Kevin (03:05):
and a spectrum.
Angie (03:06):
Oh my goodness.
Look out.
It's like a podcaster's dreamright here.
And our podcaster, a physicaltherapist, human that really
likes to analyze andphilosophize about things.
Perfect.
Kevin (03:16):
Yeah.
And it's not very, click Beattythough.
Like we're living in gray area.
Of like action.
We always live in gray area.
I know, but we're likethoroughly, carefully explaining
the nuance of the situation.
How are we possibly gonna comeup with a headline that's
clickbait and gets everybody tolisten?
Angie (03:28):
I already came up with it.
Let's stop normalizing pain andrunning.
I love it.
Injuries are not normal.
I think that is a headline thatyou don't see all the time.
That's good.
And I think that.
It is a spectrum like, yes, I doagree with you, that discomfort
can be part of the process.
It is not comfortable whenyou're trying to grow.
Growth is by nature,uncomfortable because in order
(03:50):
to grow, you have to get outsideof your comfort zone.
So there is discomfort ingrowth, there's physical
discomfort, there's mentaldiscomfort, there's emotional
discomfort.
There's all these thoughts thatpop up, there's all these
identity changes that are goingon.
So yeah, there's somediscomfort, but I don't think,
in my opinion, and this.
people can say, oh, this is justa matter of semantics.
(04:11):
And I would disagree with thatbecause I don't think that
discomfort is the same thing aspain, and I don't think that
pain is the same thing asinjury.
I think that discomfort can leadto pain and then pain can lead
to injury, which is why it's onthe spectrum.
And that's where, we have tofigure out, okay, what is
normal?
What is acceptable and okay forus to experience during our
(04:33):
running journey, and when doesit get to that point where we
have to say, okay, wait asecond.
My body's talking to me here.
Because that's really what painis.
Pain, especially when it turnsinto an injury, is your body's
way of communicating with youand your body is talking to you
all the time.
And I just wanna say thisbecause.
There are so many people outthere and there are so many
(04:54):
clients that we have worked withthroughout the years and me
specifically as a physicaltherapist and now as a running
coach with our clients inside ofthe real life runners team that
have been told.
You should probably stop runninglike you have arthritis in your
knees, you should probably stoprunning.
Or people, I'm thinking of oneclient right now who came to me
(05:15):
and said, I've got bone on bone,in my knees, and I, gosh, I wish
I would be able to run again.
And I looked at her and I said,you can, as long as you start
doing it the right way.
And I just gave her like this.
Inkling of hope.
I think that not, it doesn't, itdidn't seem at the time that I
was having this conversationwith her, that anyone had ever
(05:36):
given her that hope before.
And there were so many peoplelike that, that just the doctors
tell them this and, oh my gosh.
Actually, you know what?
Speaking of a rant, let me talkabout this ex example first.
I love
Kevin (05:48):
ranting Angie's the best
Angie (05:49):
because, this is another rant that I need to have on
Instagram because.
I was talking to a friend who is22 years old, 22 years old, when
she was 18, freshman in college.
She herniated a disc in herback.
She went to one of the bestmedical systems in the country
at her university, and they toldher.
(06:12):
You are just going to have backpain for the rest of your life.
And I, she told me that, and Iwant to figure out who that
doctor is and go kick the doctorin the chin, because that is the
most ridiculous statement thatI've ever heard.
And I've heard this from otherpatients throughout my years in
the physical therapy practice.
But.
Are you kidding me?
as an orthopedic surgeon to tellan 18-year-old girl, you're
(06:34):
gonna have back pain the rest ofyour life.
You have the back of a40-year-old right now, and when
you're 40 you're gonna have theback of an 80.
no without any sort of hope oranswer or anything, it just, it
blows my mind and it just is somuch.
More evidence of how our medicalsystem is so broken and it
(06:55):
drives me up the wall.
So if that is you.
If you know someone who that ispart of their story that they
have been told by a doctor or aphysical therapist, or a
chiropractor or whoever, somesort of medical professional or
even a non-medical professionalthat they're just gonna have to
deal with this pain for the restof their life, or this is just
(07:15):
how the way it is, or you shouldjust never run again because
your knees can't handle it, callbs.
That is such.
Bs.
That's, I just can't, I reallywanna use the real word here
too, but I don't curse on thepodcast Typically.
We're not
Kevin (07:29):
cursing.
We're almost cursing.
We're talking about in likeinflicting violence on the
medical people.
Angie (07:34):
Kicking people in the shin is not that big of a deal.
Kevin (07:37):
I know, but you feel like he said, you're gonna be in pain
for the rest of your life.
You were then going to wake upevery morning and go kick him in
the shin so that he couldexperience similar pain for the
rest of his life.
I
Angie (07:47):
don't, I'm say every morning.
I just wanted to go find him.
Kevin (07:49):
Every morning you're gonna have the shin of an
80-year-old when you're 40.
Angie (07:53):
How many times I kick it.
But yeah, it's just, it'sridiculous to me.
And I think that we strippeople.
Of hope and of a quality of lifeand people just, especially
people that don't know anybetter.
I thank God that I have themedical background that I have
and the knowledge and theexperience that I have and can
(08:14):
advocate for myself and for mypatients.
But there are so many otherpeople that.
Aren't in that field, are not inthe medical field, do not have
that type of knowledge.
And they see doctors as expertsas I can understand that there's
nothing wrong with that, but weas medical professionals have an
obligation to, if we are goingby the Hippocratic Oath, to
(08:37):
first do no harm.
And I don't think that doctorsunderstand.
What kind of harm, those typesof words and those types of
statements can do to a personpsychologically, emotionally,
and physically.
And we need to be so much moreaware of that.
back to you, if this is you, ifyou are a medical professional,
be very aware of the words thatyou use to all of your patients.
(08:59):
And if you are not, don't.
Take all of it as truth.
Take everything from everyprofessional with a grain of
salt.
Always get a second opinion.
If you don't like the first one,it's not hopeless.
Injuries and pain are not partof the process.
(09:20):
Running is actually good foryour knees.
That's another one that's I thatwe hear all the time.
That's related, but also notrelated.
But my whole point in this is toreally help you understand that
this myth shows up again andagain, and it can be so harmful.
And so today I really want toshow you why.
(09:40):
This whole idea of pain is justpart of the process is not true.
Where it comes from, first ofall, why it's not true, and then
what are some of the things thatyou can start doing about it
that actually are causing theinjury and actually causing the
pain so that you know what youcan actually start to address so
that you can start to get out ofthat cycle and start to release
(10:02):
this very harmful narrative thata lot of us have heard since we
started running.
Kevin (10:06):
Yeah, because you can put it on t-shirts and posters and
that phrase is not, pain is partof the process.
That phrase is no pain, no gain,or what I learned from one of my
very early bosses when I wasselling running shoes back as a
teenager, he always said thatthere are two types of runners,
which you hate this line just asmuch as all the other ones, but
there are two types of runners.
(10:27):
Runners who have been hurt, andrunners who haven't been hurt.
Yet that was his analysis ofeverybody around him and he said
it.
Angie (10:34):
He also is the one that put everybody in a stability
shoe.
I've got that issue with himalso.
He's no longer with us, RIP.
There you go.
but still, that doesn't makewhat he said.
Okay.
Kevin (10:43):
It's true.
But this man defined old schoolmentality, like he really did
and he.
Coached some very eliteathletes.
He himself was very talented andhe was big on pushing the
envelope, which I think is wherea lot of this comes from.
If you're really pushingboundaries with some elite
athletes, like internationally,elite athletes, then there is an
(11:05):
aspect of pushing the boundaryof how far can you push your
body and then pain and injurymay show up as a result.
I think what you are tacklinghere is that is not a normal way
of existence for.
Everybody else, like there maybe a small group of people who
are training to win a goldmedal.
(11:25):
I think that you are pushing theenvelope at a level that most of
humanity is not.
Like when I say I wanna pushmyself and see what I can get
out of myself, that is verydifferent than I wanna push so
hard that I wanna see if I'mgonna be one of the best in the
entire world.
I'm comparing myself to myselfWhen you start comparing to
others.
Then I think it goes into a moreslippery direction of, I need to
(11:49):
keep pushing.
I have to push through thisbecause if I take any days off,
then I'm gonna lose even moreground on that person.
I think that this competitionidea leads to no pain, no gain.
You've gotta push.
Always push through it, ignorethe body signals and just keep
going.
Angie (12:05):
Yeah, and I think that this.
Idea of no paying, no gain getsreinforced all the time in
sports and fitness and in ourculture, and it can be very
damaging.
there's runners out there that.
Almost bond over injuries asthese badges of honor and oh,
you've got shin splints today.
I've got my plantar fascitisacting up again.
(12:26):
And we, and people laugh aboutit because if not they'd cry.
There's that whole saying too.
But people actually bond overinjuries and I just think
wouldn't, aren't there betterthings we could be bonding over?
granted yes, we're going to bebonding over.
Different things that we gothrough in our lives and
unfortunately, injuries are athing that a lot of runners
(12:47):
experience, but holding injuriesas badges of honor, I think is a
very dangerous and a veryslippery slope because this can
lead to ignoring red flagsreally.
Ignoring the body because like Imentioned earlier, your body is
always talking to you.
Your body's always giving yousigns and symptoms to let you
(13:10):
know what's going on.
And your body, your foot can'tjust say, Hey, time to pull back
some mileage this week.
And It communicates via yournerves, via your pain, nerves
and pain signals of oh, there'sa little soreness.
There's a little stiffness here,and now there's a little
achiness.
there's different levels.
usually someone doesn't just.
Especially with running injuriessince running 10.
(13:31):
Running injuries tend to bemore, chronic and what's the
word I'm looking for?
They're
Kevin (13:35):
overuse injuries.
They're overuse
Angie (13:36):
injuries, right?
And so they creep up on you overtime.
So they start small and then youignore them, and then they get
bigger.
And then they get bigger, andthen they get bigger.
And this, ignoring our body andignoring the signs that our body
is trying to give us.
That prevents a lot of peoplefrom adjusting their training
early because we're taught tojust push through, no pain, no
(13:58):
gain, and if we think that it'snormal, if we think that pain is
part of the process, why wouldwe adjust anything?
Because this is how it's.
Supposed to feel.
This is what a lot of runnersthink, and this is really
encouraging over training andburnout, which then normalizes
dysfunction and poor trainingpractices.
And that's, in my opinion, whyso many runners get hurt because
(14:20):
they're.
Training in a way that theirbody is not yet ready for.
They're trying to overload thebody with mileage or with speed,
trying to push the pace becausethey have this idea in their
head of what runners should door what a good runner should do,
or what a good pace is.
And that number is completelyarbitrary and completely
(14:41):
different for everybody, andthey don't realize the
importance of some of the otherthings that we're going to talk
about today and how so muchpain.
Can be avoided and injuriesespecially can be avoided.
Now I'm talking about theseoveruse.
Recurring chronic types ofinjuries that so many
experience, because that is themajority.
(15:02):
Sometimes freak accidentshappen, right?
Sometimes you're running and youstep in a hole that you don't
see and you mess up your foot oryour ankle.
That's a different story.
Those injuries are veryunfortunate when they happen,
but that's not the type ofinjury that I'm talking about
today.
The ones that I'm talking abouttoday are those overuse injuries
that so many runners experiencethat kind of creep up on you
(15:24):
over time.
Kevin (15:25):
Okay, is there a category of injury that's like in
between, like your shoe stylechanges, you try out a different
shoe and something about the newshoe causes?
fairly quick onset of variouspaints.
Like you go from a shoe that,that is more rigid to one that's
a little more flexible andsuddenly plantar fasciitis
flares up on you.
(15:46):
Is that something that it's likea middle ground.
It's I did change something.
Maybe I should look at thesesignals that I'm getting and see
if I adjust from there.
Or is that kind of like a, Idon't know, just very quickly
waving a red flag at you becauseI feel like something like
runner's knee Which I dealt withfor
Angie (16:04):
Yeah.
Kevin (16:04):
I don't know ever.
it certainly felt like for along time until I met an angel.
and then, it strengthened a hipappropriately.
That was me.
Yes.
Yes it was.
But it seems like something likerunners need, what's your
Angie (16:17):
question?
Kevin (16:17):
It just gradually ever so slightly, got a little bit
worse.
Over the course of a month whereI've had like plantar fascia to
show up and that was like, Ifelt fine one day and the next
day I got outta bed and it feltlike I was stepping on nails.
Angie (16:30):
But it didn't just show up like it was probably talking
to you over time and you justdidn't realize it.
I think that's one of thebiggest things and proves my
point here, is that we're justtaught to ignore a lot of these
things and then all of a suddenit seems like it happens
overnight, but it totally doesnot.
And I think that, you mentioned.
A shoe change.
I just had this issue.
(16:50):
I just got a new pair of shoesand the shoes that I was running
in that I've been running in fora couple of years now.
The Brooks launch, they changedthe shoe, they changed the heel
drop on the shoe, and so Istarted feeling just, I think I
only ran in them four or fivetimes, and I could feel more
tightness in my plantar fascia.
I could start to feel it.
So I knew that if I were tocontinue running in those, that
(17:12):
something would have happenedand.
I know that I have tightness inmy plantar fascia, in my calves
in my ankle, and I don't doenough mobility.
So I have a choice.
I have a choice that I caneither ramp up the mobility and
all those things so that I couldwear those shoes, or I could
(17:34):
just get a different pair ofshoes.
But if I were to still keeprunning in those shoes, I could
tell very quickly that.
That was not going to lead to agood outcome.
Does that answer your question?
Yeah.
Kevin (17:44):
So this actually makes a lot of sense because, I haven't
dealt with something likeplantar fascitis since I was in
high school, and I was very muchrunning with a philosophy of if
it hurts, just pretend that itdoesn't.
Yeah.
that's really how we went topractice on most days.
Angie (17:58):
and that makes sense because you are part of a
competitive team and I thinkthat there's a lot of people
that are training that way thatmaybe were competitive at some
point in their life and they'rejust bringing that mentality
into running.
And there's also people thatbelieve that.
especially the people that werenot athletes before, they've
heard these mantras and theybelieve that this is what they
(18:20):
should be doing, even thoughit's actually not,
Kevin (18:23):
because they might have heard it from somebody who's
been running for 30 or 40 years
Angie (18:26):
or from a commercial On tv.
Kevin (18:28):
Yeah.
Or from a commercial.
Angie (18:29):
think about all the different, and that's why I say
this is not one thing.
This is like very deep in theculture that's giving us these
messages.
And so what I want you tounderstand.
Is that pain is not a sign thatyou're pushing yourself
appropriately.
There's a lot of people thatthink it is, if it hurts, that
means I'm doing it right.
That means I'm challengingmyself.
(18:50):
And this was one of thestatements that this social
media person said that kind oftriggered me into this whole, if
you follow me on Instagram, Iput a reel about this, today,
and then now we're doing apodcast about it because I
wanted to go deeper into it.
So pain is not a sign thatyou're pushing yourself
appropriately.
It's a sign that your body isnot adequately prepared for the
(19:13):
load that you're putting on it.
So yes, it's a sign that you'repushing yourself, but it's not a
sign that you're pushingyourself intelligently.
It's a sign that you're pushingyourself over the limits that
your body is able to handle.
And that's why pain shows up.
'cause again.
Pain is your body's way ofcommunicating yourself or of
communicating to you to let youknow, okay, hey, too much time
(19:36):
to pull back now.
We need to start listening, andthat's really the key here is we
need to start listening to ourbodies.
We need to start understandingthe signals that our body is
giving us, and then adjustthings appropriately so that we
can avoid pain and we can avoidinjury, and we can stay
consistent in our training.
I know you had a comment about.
(19:56):
About, pushing the envelope.
'cause this is a conversationthat Kevin and I have had before
too, and you started thisearlier with if you are a very
elite performer and you'retrying to make the Olympics, or
you are a professional runnerand your income literally.
Lays on is dependent upon yourperformance.
A lot of runners get paid basedon their performance in certain
(20:19):
races, if they hit certain timesor if they place in certain, a
certain place.
So it does matter that they arerunning fast.
There are times actually domatter because it is reflected
in their paycheck.
But most of you listening tothis podcast, and I'd venture to
say probably all of you aren't.
that's not your experience,that's not your running journey
(20:40):
right now.
That we're not, that's not thereason we're doing this.
If
Kevin (20:43):
you've paid entry fees to every race you've ever run, and
no one's ever flown you in andgiven you an entrance fee for
showing up at their race, it'sprobably better that you are
pushing yourself.
You're like, I'd like to test mylimits, but you're not running
so close to the red line.
Yeah.
Day in and day out that you'relike, you know what?
(21:04):
I'm feeling a little worn outtoday.
Maybe I should take a rest day,an extra rest day, a nice easy
recovery walk instead of beinglike, ah, I guess you know, I'm
not feeling great.
I'll go for an easy hour.
that's not a recovery day formost people.
Yeah.
When you're dealing with peoplewho are literally getting paid
five and six figure salaries forrunning really fast, the
(21:26):
difference between taking acouple of weeks off might mean
that they don't get.
Get into a race and that justshowing up to that race could be
worth 10 grand to them.
that is a very different mindsetthat person has.
And while it's great to look tothe elites and emulate certain
aspects of their training, weare not those people.
And so there's aspects that weshould not emulate, and perhaps
(21:48):
this is one of them.
if your life is dependent onthat income, then yes, I
understand the whole aspect ofpushing the envelope up to a
point.
Because then you get runnersthat get injured and then they
lose whatever contract they had.
it's a really fine line thatthey have to play.
I think the line is a lot lessfine.
I don't think we have to danceas close to the line with, real
life writers.
Angie (22:08):
I agree.
And because consistency is themost.
Important thing that is going tolead to your progress as a
runner.
And so if you feel like you needto continue to challenge
yourself and get as close tothat line as possible, that
means that sometimes you'regonna go over it and you're
gonna experience the pain or theinjury, and that's gonna set you
back.
So instead of just like gettingup to it, and then set back and
(22:29):
then up to it, and then setback, what if you just stayed a
little bit further away?
And never actually cross thatline and then just continue to
make progress over time.
that is an option too.
And that's really the optionthat we're.
Presenting here for you is toreally reframe your running
journey as a lifelong pursuit,not just as a short term thing
(22:51):
of like, how fast can I getright now?
It's really about changing theframe and like zooming out a bit
and saying, okay, how can I dothis successfully for as long as
I want to do this for?
And that's really what I wannahelp you with today.
So what I wanna do now is gothrough a list of reasons.
For why injuries happen, and Iwant you to think about this and
(23:13):
how this might apply to you.
To say, okay, what's my bodytrying to tell me here?
'cause that's really what I wantyou to start asking yourself.
Anytime an injury pops up, orespecially before, try to, catch
it before it actually turns intoan injury.
And if you've got like a littlebit of pain showing up, start
asking yourself these questions.
So okay, what could be causingthis right now?
(23:35):
So the first thing that I thinkis related to pretty much every
injury that I've seen.
Seen as a physical therapist ismuscle weakness and or
imbalance.
And this is especially common inwomen over 40, really all
runners over 40, but especiallywomen over 40 due to the
hormonal shifts and the musclechanges that we see in the body,
(23:56):
the changes in collagen and are,connective tissue and all of
these other things that aregoing on with our bodies.
It can lead to muscle weaknessand imbalance.
And this is especiallyprevalent.
In our glutes, like a lot ofweakness in your glutes and in
your hip muscles and in yourcore, that can lead to increased
stress on your joints.
(24:18):
specifically the knee.
People talk about knee pain inrunners all the time.
A lot of times knee pain is notdue to an actual problem with
the knee itself.
It's often due to weakness inthe hips and because of the way
that your foot hits the ground.
The forces are going throughyour knee and they're not being
absorbed properly by the body.
So that increased force throughthe knee because of the weakness
(24:41):
in the muscles, that's what'sactually causing some of the
breakdown and some of the painto occur.
Kevin (24:46):
So you point out the super common in women,
especially over 40, I think,super common in people who do a
lot of treadmill running.
Or very smooth sidewalk runningand not because sidewalks are
super hard.
But because there's no change inwhat you're running on.
It's super smooth surface and soyou don't have to deal with
anything lateral.
And because of that, because youcan just get into this straight
(25:07):
line running motion, you don'thave to activate your hips as
much as you run, and you can getfairly productive running
efforts.
Before you get to this pointwhere it's oh wait, I can only
push so far because my hipsdon't provide the stability that
I actually need.
Even when you're running in astraight line.
And then, we see this sometimeswith athletes that go to a lot
(25:29):
of treadmill because it'ssnowing outside.
It stops snowing, all the whitestuff melts and they go back
outside and they're running onuneven surfaces and suddenly,
bam, knee pain.
And it's because they haven't.
Had to worry about providingtheir own stability on a
treadmill.
Everything's nice and smooth.
Yeah, this was one of my bigissues because I wasn't
appropriately developed throughglutes and hips that I wasn't
(25:50):
able to run on uneven surfaceswithout causing the pain.
I was too used to running onsidewalks.
Angie (25:54):
Yeah.
And it, for those of you thathave younger kids, maybe you
have kids in middle school orhigh school that are getting
into running in cross countryalso, this is something that
really pops up in that age groupas well, again, due to those
hormone shifts.
Because of the body changes thatwe're seeing, especially in
girls.
So when girls go throughpuberty, the hi, their hips
(26:15):
widen, their ligaments getlooser, like everything is
stretching out as their body ischanging.
And so this can lead also to alot of weakness, specifically in
the hips.
This is why girls tend to have alot of knee pain and a lot of
shin splints and other issueslike that.
So if you have a daughterespecially, but.
This happens with boys as well,but especially with females,
(26:36):
because of the changes thatactually happen to the skeleton
and the widening of the hips.
During puberty.
you have to have them strengthtraining.
You gotta get them into astrength program.
If their school doesn't providestrength and conditioning, find
a strength and conditioningcoach.
find stuff for them online.
Reach out to somebody.
Find a physical therapist inyour area that can give you a
(26:57):
workout program.
It's not something that you haveto necessarily go to.
At multiple times per week.
But find a professional that cangive you a strengthening program
for your kid, and then make surethat they do it if they want to
stay injury free.
The second thing that is a topcause for injury is doing too
much too soon.
So this is ramping up your speedor ramping up your mileage too
(27:20):
fast.
So it's essentially trainingerrors, increasing your mileage,
your speed, your volume, withoutallowing your body enough time
to adapt.
Now.
If you are someone over 40 andmaybe you're new to running,
especially.
It takes longer for your body toadapt.
Now, and this is somethingthat's really important to keep
(27:40):
in mind.
So the same way that you mighthave been able to ramp up when
you were in your teens or inyour twenties is not the same
way that your body is now ableto ramp up your training.
So if you're someone that youknow, you're like, oh, I used to
run, and this is the same thingthat I did when I was 35, but
now you're 45 or you're 55, yourbody's different.
And that's yes, you are the sameperson.
(28:02):
But your body is different, andso it's really important for you
to honor where you are right nowin your life and in your
training, and allow your body togradually ramp itself back up
because adaptation takes time.
And if you're just addingtraining load to your body.
Without the proper amount oftime, you're just accumulating
(28:23):
that stress and accumulatingthat load, not actually allowing
that adaptation.
So your tissues like yourmuscles, your tendons, your
joints, all of these things needtime to adapt to your training.
If you're not giving it thatamount of time and you're trying
to ramp things up too quickly,that's a very good recipe for
injury.
Kevin (28:43):
All right, so this one can be really tough for people
to wrap their head around.
I need to go slower.
I need the buildup to go slowerbecause I just wanna get back to
where I was.
It's a lot of comparison toprevious self and one way to
alleviate some of this mentaldriving yourself nuts is.
Occasionally, it's okay if oneday you do a little bump up, but
(29:04):
it slides into your next pointof making sure that you have
enough recovery.
It's okay if you're like, I usedto be able to go out and run 45
minutes every day and now I'm at30 and I wanna be able to go
from 30 to 45, but it's probablybetter to go from 30 to 35 and
then to 40 minutes and then to45.
Yeah.
It's okay if you're like, can Ijust run 45?
(29:24):
Sure.
And then take a rest day on thenext one, like it's okay to
pulse up to something a littlebit higher, a little bit
abnormal for a day, and thenpull back.
As long as you have that actualpullback.
Angie (29:37):
And that really leads to number three, the third cause of
injury, which is training toofrequently without adequate
recovery breaks.
So trying to run every day ortrying to run, jump from zero
days of running into a halfmarathon training plan that now
gives you four days of runningwithout allowing your body to.
Actually get to that pointagain, surefire recipe for
(29:59):
injury, you have to haverecovery.
You have to ramp upappropriately.
And then, like Kevin just said,you have to have the appropriate
and adequate amount of recoverybecause your body takes again.
Longer to adapt.
So recovery becomes even moreimportant because recovery is
actually the time that your bodygets stronger during your
(30:19):
training.
And this is one of the thingsthat not a lot of people
understand unless your listenersto this podcast, which puts you
ahead of the game, which isawesome.
When you are training, your bodyis actually breaking down.
And during rest and recovery,that's when your body builds
back.
Stronger than it was before, aslong as you're giving it
(30:39):
yourself.
Number four, which is properfueling and nutrition.
Okay, so another cause ofinjury.
Cause number four that is verycommon is under fueling or poor
nutrition.
People that don't eat enough tosupport their training.
That is a.
Big cause of injury because ifyou're not eating enough, that
leads to a condition called lowenergy availability or LEA.
(31:03):
And this can lead to a conditioncalled RED S, which is relative
energy deficiency in sport,which used to be known as the
female athlete triad.
Now we realize that this happensto guys too, so thank you.
So they've renamed it.
But essentially if you'regetting to a point of low energy
availability, and then ofcourse, especially if you go all
the way to red S, that's REDS.
(31:26):
Your tissues are breaking down,but it affects pretty much every
system in your body.
It affects your hormones, ityour endocrine system, your
circulatory system, yourmusculoskeletal system, your
nervous system.
All of the systems in your bodyare affected by low energy
availability because like Isaid, during that recovery time,
your body wants to build backstronger, but it's like trying
(31:49):
to build a house without cement.
If you have maybe some Someblocks and you have some wood,
but you don't have cement andyou don't have nails, you have
nothing to actually hold thehouse together.
It's not, you're not gonna getvery far.
You're not actually going to beable to build a strong house,
and that's what nutrition givesyou.
If you give your bodyappropriate nutrition, that,
especially protein andcarbohydrates, that's going to
(32:11):
allow your body to buildstronger muscles, stronger
bones, and when you don't.
Then your muscle recovery andyour bone density suffer,
especially if you're a womanover 40 and you're in
perimenopause or post menopause.
We're already fighting thisbattle where we're losing muscle
and we're losing bone because ofthe loss of estrogen that we're
(32:32):
experiencing during thesehormone shifts during this time
of our lives.
So if you then.
Don't eat enough on top of that,you're just making it even worse
and you're not giving your bodywhat it needs in order to get
stronger.
Kevin (32:46):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite, like exercise
physiology studies.
they were trying to determinewhat contributes to over
training versus under fueling,and they determined essentially
there is no such thing as overtraining.
That was essentially theconclusion they got.
That was their
Angie (32:59):
interpretation.
It was their
Kevin (33:01):
interpretation, but.
It.
It leads to a good argument.
Yeah.
Of there is only under fueling.
That as long as you provideenough fuel because the fuel
helps all of the recoveryprocess.
They suggested thattheoretically if there was
enough fuel that you couldcontinue to train now and sleep.
Yes, I know it's you.
You've got the point coming.
(33:22):
I see it coming.
That's why I made the point now.
But the argument was, is that itwas simply a lack of providing
enough fuel that led to all ofthe over training injuries.
And so if you're like, oh, I'mdoing fine.
I took a recovery day, but youreduced your calorie intake
because you didn't go run onyour recovery day.
That's an issue.
Like on a recovery day, you needto make sure that you're still
(33:43):
fueling your body and so manypeople.
Eat fewer calories on recoveryday because they don't do the
exercise.
Yeah.
So they're like, I don't need totake in the calories.
But as you just pointed out, youneed the calories on the
recovery day because that's whenyou're doing the rebuilding.
Angie (33:57):
Yeah.
And I, it's arguable of do youneed more calories on those days
even.
And there is some debate andsome discussion, I should say,
in the.
In the literature and amongstexperts of when is it more
important?
It's just important both times,right?
it's important, if we're gonnabe real, like it's important on
your training days and on yourrecovery days, you should not be
eating a ton less calories onrecovery days just because
(34:21):
you're not exercising.
All right, moving on to numberfive.
The number five reason whyinjuries happen is lack of sleep
and stress recovery.
So if you are not sleeping well,if you're not getting enough
sleep, or if the sleep that youare getting is not good quality
sleep, or if you're constantlystressed out, What person in
(34:42):
midlife doesn't experiencestress, right?
But if you're someone that'sconstantly stressed, your body
can't repair because yournervous system is constantly in
fight or flight mode.
When you are under a lot ofstress, your body, we basically
have two main operating modes.
We have sympathetic nervoussystem and parasympathetic
nervous system.
Granted, this is oversimplifyingeverything.
(35:04):
I understand that.
Okay.
But.
When we are very stressed andwhen our body does, or when
we're overstressed, when we'reunder fueled, when we're
undersleep.
When we're undercovered, yourbody's in sympathetic mode.
Think about how you feel whenyou don't get enough sleep.
How much patience do you have?
How much understanding do youhave when your husband doesn't
(35:26):
do the thing you asked him todo?
How do you feel when you're not,when you haven't eaten enough?
How's your patience level then?
Like you, we know, we've all hadthese experiences where we're
exhausted and, patience is justnon-existent, right?
every little thing seems totrigger you.
Yeah.
You're not alone.
And that's because your nervoussystem.
(35:46):
Is in sympathetic stress mode.
And so your body cannot repairitself when you are stuck in
stress mode because your restand recovery and repair mode is
your parasympathetic nervoussystem.
So it's really important for usto get enough sleep and to
understand how to decreasestress in our lives so that our
body can switch over intoparasympathetic mode so that you
(36:10):
can actually recover and adaptto training because again.
Recovery is when you getstronger, not during the
training itself.
Kevin (36:19):
All right.
So I know, we've been marriedfor a long time.
I know one of the best ways tofeel less stressful is just have
somebody tell you to feel lessstressful.
It's always, that's
Angie (36:28):
a surefire way.
It's
Kevin (36:29):
always a good win.
it's guaranteed.
Angie (36:32):
Why don't you just relax a little bit?
Yes.
Kevin (36:34):
That's the phrase.
Oh,
Angie (36:35):
oh, you're right.
I didn't.
Think of that.
I should probably relax.
Kevin (36:39):
Why don't you just relax, just have somebody say that.
Maybe even walk around with anindex card to give to people so
that they can tell you thatstatement because nothing calms
you down.
Quite like having somebody tellyou just relax.
Yeah, that's what I got.
Angie (36:54):
Is that's it.
You just wanted to add that inthere.
Yeah.
Kevin (36:55):
I really just wanted to add that in
Angie (36:57):
of what not to do.
Yeah.
Kevin (36:59):
You
Angie (36:59):
know?
Do you have an adage of What todo instead here.
Kevin (37:02):
here's the thing.
No one, like outside sources arereally bad places to go to try
and get you to relax like youcan feel when you're over
overstimulated and overstressed.
And my best way is pulling outof a situation.
Like I literally, I have toleave the situation.
I know I can feel it coming,that I'm way overstressed and I
have to pull away and go to aquiet place.
(37:24):
And I know I can take some deepbreaths and bring myself back to
a more normal place.
But having anybody suggest thatyou need to just calm down is by
far the worst.
Angie (37:33):
What if Taylor Swift sings it to you?
Kevin (37:34):
No, I don't.
You
Angie (37:36):
need to calm down?
Kevin (37:37):
No, please, no.
Angie (37:38):
Oh, come on.
No, that will definitely help.
Right?
Kevin (37:41):
No,
Angie (37:42):
you're being too loud.
Okay.
so those are really the topfive.
And then the overarchingprinciple behind all of this
that we said at the beginningthat I'm gonna reiterate now,
are these faulty beliefs, likepart of the reason that injuries
occur is are these beliefs thatpain is normal?
Or I just need to push throughbecause if you're continuously
just ignoring warning signs oryou think that injury means that
(38:06):
you're doing it right, or that'sjust me getting stronger, like
that pain is a sign that mybody's getting stronger.
That what is that?
You like that voice?
What was that?
I don't know.
It was a good one though.
I was like, sweat is your fatcrying.
that's another, that's a shirtthat I've seen.
Was that like.
The sound
Kevin (38:23):
of your achy muscle.
Was that like a hamstring sound?
I don't know,
Angie (38:26):
but it was like a guy from like the old West, I think.
Like old cowboy.
Kevin (38:32):
So Angie's,
Angie (38:33):
cowboys, no pain.
Sure.
Yes.
Okay.
I, and I stopped watchingYellowstone a while ago, so I
can't even explain that.
But anyway, hopefully youunderstand now.
Okay.
There's a lot of reasons thatyou are experiencing pain and
injury, and you don't have to.
There's a lot of things that youcan do.
There's a lot of control thatyou have, and if you want
(38:55):
guidance, I'm gonna say thisagain later in the episode, but
if you want guidance and if youwant a plan, and if you want
people to help you, come jointhe team.
I love helping people start torewrite their running story and
to understand that they canimprove no matter their age and
no matter what their experiencehas been.
Up until this point, as long asyou start doing things the right
(39:15):
way.
And I love seeing the joy andthe satisfaction in people that
start to get results.
And it's just the best thingever.
So real life runners.com/team.
So come join us.
Alright.
Here are some ways how.
To prevent injury and start tofeel good again.
Okay, and again, this is metalking to you as a physical
(39:36):
therapist for the past 18 yearsas a running coach for the past
10.
These things that we're gonna betalking about now, these are
non-negotiables.
All right.
These are the cornerstones.
They are not the sexy thingsthat everybody loves to put on
Instagram, but these are thethings that are actually gonna
help you run strong and preventinjury.
Okay.
No, that
Kevin (39:55):
first one could go on Instagram.
Angie (39:56):
they all could technically, but the
Kevin (39:59):
second one's not cool for Instagram, but the first one,
definitely video.
Okay, so
Angie (40:02):
the first one is, number one is strength training.
Okay.
You have to strength training.
Strength training isnon-negotiable as a runner,
especially as a runner over 40,especially focusing on.
Single leg strength and powerbecause this helps to make your
joints stronger and help toimprove your running mechanics.
We have to be training all ofour muscles.
(40:23):
We have to be doing compoundmovements like squats, dead
lifts, those kinds of things.
Those are foundational movementsthat every runner should be
doing.
And then as runners, it's alsovery important for us to be
doing single leg movementsbecause running is a single leg
sport.
You are jumping over and overfrom one leg to another.
that's what running is.
it's jumping from one leg toanother, so you have to be able.
(40:46):
To stabilize yourself and tocreate power while standing on
one leg.
So single leg exercises areabsolutely crucial for us as
runners.
You wanna tell'em number two?
Kevin (40:56):
Number two, progressive personalized running plans, not
your basic generic mileage basedplan.
Ai.
Can churn out quality plans, butthey can't actually make
something that works very wellfor you.
It's just not there.
That's, I think, one of thebiggest holdbacks of AI plans
right now.
Yeah.
But they
Angie (41:16):
say that they can, but they're actually not, and this
is try to, ask AI.
some question about yourself,like they get pretty close.
they can get pretty close, butthey don't know the full
picture.
Kevin (41:26):
That's the problem is they get frighteningly close.
So it seems like the planactually is really well done to
you.
This is the benefit of havingcoaches is even if the plan is
not perfectly done right towardsyou, you can then check in with
coaches and be like, Hey.
It seems like something might beoff and you can actually get
adjustments.
Yeah, that's, that's yourultimate win on that guy is
being able to have a coach thatyou can check in with, but a
(41:48):
personalized running plan thatactually fits where you are, not
where you have been, not whereyou'd like to go.
It gets you towards where you'dlike to go, but it's rooted in
where you currently are.
It knows your strength, it knowsyour weaknesses, and it knows
what it needs to build on.
That's the plan that you need.
Angie (42:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Number three is to prioritizerecovery.
As a runner over 40, you have tobe taking rest days.
You should not be training everysingle weeks.
Rest days are really importantbecause recovery is part of your
training.
Recovery is when your bodyactually gets stronger.
You also, another really greatthing to add into your training
(42:26):
are.
What are called deloading weeks.
So you ramp up, you increaseyour load, and then you pull it
back.
You decrease your load for aweek.
That helps your body to adapt.
It helps your body to catch up,give your body a little bit more
time to adapt, and that is goingto actually help you.
In the long run, people arelike, oh, I don't wanna pull
back.
I don't wanna lose my progress.
(42:46):
I don't wanna lose mymotivation.
It's actually really good foryour body.
It's good for your you,physically, emotionally,
psychologically, deload weeksare fantastic.
And then the third thing thatwill help you with recovery are
is cross training.
Okay?
As a runner over 40.
You definitely do not need to berunning every day.
If you are someone that likes tomove your body every day, I'm
(43:06):
one of those people.
I like to move every day, startdoing other things.
Okay.
You can do walking, you can dobiking, you can do swimming and
yoga.
There's lots of other options aslong as they feel.
Easy.
Okay.
This is the goal is not toreplace a run with a bootcamp
style hit workout.
Okay?
That's not what we're going for.
When I say cross training, theidea is to still give your body
(43:28):
the recovery that it needs, butmaybe it can be something
outside of running,
Kevin (43:31):
but you could also, it.
Doesn't exactly fall into yourcategory of recovery here, but
you could u replace one of yourharder running days with a hard
cross training day.
And as we get a little bitolder, that's
Angie (43:42):
Yeah.
As, as long as it's hard forhard
Kevin (43:44):
it's appropriate replacing, it's not replacing
easy with hard cross trainingjust because it's less impact on
the knees.
that's not the goal here.
All right, so next one, fuel.
Like an athlete, embrace all ofyour macros, all of them,
especially your carbs.
Prioritize your protein,especially during a post run.
You need to make sure that youare putting the fuel into you
after a run.
(44:04):
There was a study that came outthat suggests that endurance
athletes need even more proteinthan, heavy lifting athletes or
like football pla I forget whatthe sport was.
They were comparing it to, butendurance runners.
But it said that they needed itmore on recovery days.
Even more on recovery days.
So don't ignore carbs.
They are the fuel for your fire,but don't ignore proteins or
your body can't actually buildback and get stronger.
(44:26):
You wanna, they're allimportant.
Angie (44:27):
All right.
I'm gonna call you out now.
Oh God.
Tell everybody what happened toyou the other day.
Kevin (44:31):
Monday.
Angie (44:32):
yes.
Your long run was Sunday.
Yeah.
You did 16 miles.
I did.
And then how'd you feel onMonday?
Kevin (44:38):
I was worthless on Monday because I didn't eat at anywhere
near enough on Sunday.
I think I missed lunchessentially.
You
Angie (44:45):
did?
Because we had a, our daughterhad a dance competition.
Kevin (44:47):
She did awesome.
Angie (44:48):
She did awesome.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But.
How did you take care ofyourself?
Kevin (44:51):
I took care of, she did awesome.
Let's go with She did great andI really paid for my complete
lack of taking care of myself onMonday.
I was worthless.
And you were annoyed.
You didn't show that you wereannoyed.
You did an awesome job of I didtoo.
Hiding your, yeah, but I
Angie (45:09):
did too.
Kevin (45:09):
You hid how annoyed you were.
Angie (45:12):
Most of the day, yes, you did it, it came out at the end
of the day,
Kevin (45:15):
yes.
But for most of the day, you hidjust how annoyed with me you
were.
And I appreciated that because Iclearly was an idiot and did not
take care of myself.
Angie (45:25):
So you didn't fuel appropriately on.
Your day of your long run.
Yeah.
So you were essentiallyhungover, and he didn't drink,
like there was no alcoholinvolved, but you essentially
acted like you were hungover onMonday.
Kevin (45:36):
I really, I, that's what I felt like.
Yeah.
All day long.
I just had this like low levelheadache that kind of moved to
nausea and just exhausted allday long.
I was worthless all Monday.
I really was, and we needed toget stuff done.
Angie (45:47):
so it, but that's the lesson, right?
you've been eating a good amounttoday Yes.
To try to, and you tried to eatyesterday, but that was tough
with the nausea.
But this is, this stuff isimportant guys, and this is the
other thing that I want you tohear is that, yes, we're telling
you that this is a, butsometimes we don't always I
would say we follow our ownadvice most of the time, but
(46:07):
like sometimes quote unquote,life gets in the way.
Like Kevin.
We had a dance competition andhe was prioritizing our
daughter.
I don't know why he wasn'teating along in the process
because I did fine with eating.
But you did
Kevin (46:19):
just fine.
apparently I couldn't eat.
Angie (46:21):
I don't know what, I don't know what to say there,
these things are important andif you're going to be an
endurance athlete, which as arunner, you are an endurance
athlete, you have to fuel likeone, you have to.
Give your body what it needs oryou're gonna get hurt, you're
gonna things are gonna happen.
This is one of the big reasonswhy injuries occur, because
especially, women when they getinto this phase of life.
(46:43):
And they start gaining weight orthey, the fat distribution
starts to change because of thehormone shifts that we're going
through.
They start restricting calories.
They go back to that old dietmindset, and then they end up
injured because they're stilltrying to run.
And a lot of women try to rampup their training because
they're trying to lose weight.
So they're trying, it's thisrest, another recipe for
disaster.
They're trying to ramp up theirtraining, but they're cutting
(47:04):
their calories and restrictingtheir food on top of it.
Then all of a sudden there's allthese pains and injuries that
pop up.
Yes.
No bueno.
Kevin (47:12):
No, no bueno at all.
And finally, I think finally
Angie (47:16):
the biggest thing that you need to do, and this is
really one of the bigoverarching principles of this
episode, is to tune into yourbody and not just your watch.
You have to forget about.
The paces and all the thingsthat you're, these metrics that
we as runners love and I knowthat you're gonna have a hard
time with that, especially, thisis a conversation that we even
(47:37):
had today on our coaching callwith multiple, of our current
clients.
This is not an easy thing.
And I'm not telling you thissaying, oh yeah, you should.
This is easy.
Just let it go.
Tune into your body, ignore yourwatch.
Like I understand howchallenging that can be because
there's a lot of ego involved,and I don't say that in a bad
way, that it's just the truth.
(47:58):
Like we all have.
the, our own beliefs about whatwe can do or what we think we
should be able to do, the waythat our body should feel and
when it doesn't match up withreality, a lot of times we try
to fight it.
And so what I am inviting you todo is to.
Realize where you are right now.
Accept it with love.
(48:19):
Learn how to tune into yourbody, not just pay attention to
your watch.
If pain does show up, don'tignore it.
Ask yourself these questions.
Okay, what areas am I maybe notgiving enough attention to here?
And then adjust, adjust yourplan.
If you're, if you've beenramping up, pull back on your
mileage.
Take an extra rest day, seeksome support.
(48:40):
Take it seriously.
your body is amazing.
Your body is.
Always giving you messages.
All you have to do is reallystart to listen.
So if you can start to reframerunning as a lifelong practice,
not just this temporarychallenge, this is going to
become much easier.
You're gonna start to see, okay,wait, if I take one rest day.
(49:02):
In the scheme, in the largescheme of things, that's gonna
be really good for me here.
It's not going to set me back.
Kevin (49:08):
No, a hundred percent.
A rest day is much better thanthree rest weeks that are forced
upon you.
Yeah.
Run one rest day that you arechoosing to take is a much
better option.
Being sidelined does not meanthat you're not doing aging
correctly.
It means that you need toactually adjust your training to
your.
Current training ability, whatthat strengths and those
weaknesses and thatrecoverability timeline is, I've
(49:30):
had to completely shift my wholetraining week for the last
couple of years because I needmore rest, more recovery days
between my hard runs.
It's just a complete overhaul.
It's just that you need toevolve your training system as
you, as a human continue to growand adapt.
Angie (49:45):
Absolutely.
You can still grow, you canstill progress, you can still
challenge yourself without yourbody breaking down without
injury.
So what if instead of pain,instead of injury being a normal
part of running or a normal partof aging, what if feeling
strong, feeling energized andfeeling pain free was your
(50:08):
normal?
Is that even a possibility?
Like when I say that, what comesup for you?
Because that's what I want to benormal, because p pain is not a
badge of honor.
It's feedback from your body.
You can feel good in yourforties, your fifties, your
sixties, your seventies, youreighties, right?
Like your body is incredible.
(50:30):
So let's start treating it thatway.
Let's start honoring it that wayfor the incredible thing that it
is.
So that's what we've got for youguys today.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwould love for you to share it
with a friend, especially if youhave that friend that needs to
hear this message.
Share it on social media.
Leave us a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify.
(50:50):
We read every single podcast orevery single review, and those
reviews really help us to reachnew listeners.
So as always, guys, thanks somuch for joining us.
Oh, and of course, if you wantsupport, come join the team,
real life runners team.
We are here for you.
We've got group coaching andgroup support with.
Personalized plans.
Okay?
It's a hybrid program where youget the best of both worlds.
(51:10):
You get a personalized plan tomeet you where you are, that
gives you all of your runs, allof your strength training, and
then you get this amazingsupport of coaches and a group
of other runners that are thereto support you on your journey.
So check that outtoday@realliferunners.com.
Forward slash team, and thanksfor joining us today.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
415.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
If you've ever thought that pain is just part of the
running process or that pain isjust part of how you improve
this episode is for you, becausethe truth is just because
running injuries are common,that does not mean that they are
normal.
Injuries are not.
Normal.
Injuries don't have to be partof the process.
(00:21):
This is a hot take and I'mexcited to get into this with
you guys because I really wantyou to understand that running
injuries.
Are optional and that you mightnot hear from a lot of people.
So stay tuned.
(00:55):
Alright, so this is a gonna be afun episode today.
Welcome back to the podcasty'all.
Kevin (01:01):
This is gonna be a spicy episode.
Angie (01:02):
I like being spicy.
so a little background of whywe're doing this podcast right
now.
Was, I was scrolling throughInstagram and I saw a very
popular Instagram personnelpersonality, who is also a
doctor talking about an injurythat she sustained, and she just
blew it off yep, this is justwhat happens when you're
(01:24):
training hard, and it justinstantly just Shot me in the
heart because it is not, normal.
Injuries are not normal, and Ithink that this is one of those
narratives that is out therethat people don't even question,
that people just accept astruths because there are
statistics to back up a lot ofthese things.
Over 80% of runners get.
(01:45):
Injured at some point in theirlife.
Over half, over 50% of runnersget injured every single year.
And these are statistics that Iam working really hard to try to
start to reverse, to start toaffect even just a little bit
chipping at, chipping away at itlittle by little.
And I want to invite you intothat movement with me because
(02:06):
the truth is, injuries are notnormal.
Pain is not part of the process.
It is.
A very common experience that alot of runners have.
But the big thing that I wantyou to take away from this
episode is that just becauseit's common does not make it
normal.
Kevin (02:23):
Yeah.
I think there's a lot of nuancein that pain is not part of the
process.
Discomfort is going to be part,is involved.
Yes.
Angie (02:29):
Yes.
Kevin (02:30):
there are aspects of running that are a hundred
percent uncomfortable.
That in the moment you're like,man.
I, it would be more comfortableif I was sitting on the couch
right, than doing my eighthquarter repeat.
Like it is uncomfortable.
The third mile of a 5K.
Angie (02:44):
Yeah.
When your legs get that lactateburn, that is not a comfortable
sensation.
Kevin (02:49):
No.
That is uncomfortable, but thatis very different from pain,
especially.
Day in, day out pain.
That is not okay.
Angie (02:56):
And especially when it pain then turns into injury.
Yeah.
Because I think that there, thisis a spectrum that we're talking
about, so I agree.
I think that discomfort we'vegot nuance
Kevin (03:05):
and a spectrum.
Angie (03:06):
Oh my goodness.
Look out.
It's like a podcaster's dreamright here.
And our podcaster, a physicaltherapist, human that really
likes to analyze andphilosophize about things.
Perfect.
Kevin (03:16):
Yeah.
And it's not very, click Beattythough.
Like we're living in gray area.
Of like action.
We always live in gray area.
I know, but we're likethoroughly, carefully explaining
the nuance of the situation.
How are we possibly gonna comeup with a headline that's
clickbait and gets everybody tolisten?
Angie (03:28):
I already came up with it.
Let's stop normalizing pain andrunning.
I love it.
Injuries are not normal.
I think that is a headline thatyou don't see all the time.
That's good.
And I think that.
It is a spectrum like, yes, I doagree with you, that discomfort
can be part of the process.
It is not comfortable whenyou're trying to grow.
Growth is by nature,uncomfortable because in order
(03:50):
to grow, you have to get outsideof your comfort zone.
So there is discomfort ingrowth, there's physical
discomfort, there's mentaldiscomfort, there's emotional
discomfort.
There's all these thoughts thatpop up, there's all these
identity changes that are goingon.
So yeah, there's somediscomfort, but I don't think,
in my opinion, and this.
people can say, oh, this is justa matter of semantics.
(04:11):
And I would disagree with thatbecause I don't think that
discomfort is the same thing aspain, and I don't think that
pain is the same thing asinjury.
I think that discomfort can leadto pain and then pain can lead
to injury, which is why it's onthe spectrum.
And that's where, we have tofigure out, okay, what is
normal?
What is acceptable and okay forus to experience during our
(04:33):
running journey, and when doesit get to that point where we
have to say, okay, wait asecond.
My body's talking to me here.
Because that's really what painis.
Pain, especially when it turnsinto an injury, is your body's
way of communicating with youand your body is talking to you
all the time.
And I just wanna say thisbecause.
There are so many people outthere and there are so many
(04:54):
clients that we have worked withthroughout the years and me
specifically as a physicaltherapist and now as a running
coach with our clients inside ofthe real life runners team that
have been told.
You should probably stop runninglike you have arthritis in your
knees, you should probably stoprunning.
Or people, I'm thinking of oneclient right now who came to me
(05:15):
and said, I've got bone on bone,in my knees, and I, gosh, I wish
I would be able to run again.
And I looked at her and I said,you can, as long as you start
doing it the right way.
And I just gave her like this.
Inkling of hope.
I think that not, it doesn't, itdidn't seem at the time that I
was having this conversationwith her, that anyone had ever
(05:36):
given her that hope before.
And there were so many peoplelike that, that just the doctors
tell them this and, oh my gosh.
Actually, you know what?
Speaking of a rant, let me talkabout this ex example first.
I love
Kevin (05:48):
ranting Angie's the best
Angie (05:49):
because, this is another rant that I need to have on
Instagram because.
I was talking to a friend who is22 years old, 22 years old, when
she was 18, freshman in college.
She herniated a disc in herback.
She went to one of the bestmedical systems in the country
at her university, and they toldher.
(06:12):
You are just going to have backpain for the rest of your life.
And I, she told me that, and Iwant to figure out who that
doctor is and go kick the doctorin the chin, because that is the
most ridiculous statement thatI've ever heard.
And I've heard this from otherpatients throughout my years in
the physical therapy practice.
But.
Are you kidding me?
as an orthopedic surgeon to tellan 18-year-old girl, you're
(06:34):
gonna have back pain the rest ofyour life.
You have the back of a40-year-old right now, and when
you're 40 you're gonna have theback of an 80.
no without any sort of hope oranswer or anything, it just, it
blows my mind and it just is somuch.
More evidence of how our medicalsystem is so broken and it
(06:55):
drives me up the wall.
So if that is you.
If you know someone who that ispart of their story that they
have been told by a doctor or aphysical therapist, or a
chiropractor or whoever, somesort of medical professional or
even a non-medical professionalthat they're just gonna have to
deal with this pain for the restof their life, or this is just
(07:15):
how the way it is, or you shouldjust never run again because
your knees can't handle it, callbs.
That is such.
Bs.
That's, I just can't, I reallywanna use the real word here
too, but I don't curse on thepodcast Typically.
We're not
Kevin (07:29):
cursing.
We're almost cursing.
We're talking about in likeinflicting violence on the
medical people.
Angie (07:34):
Kicking people in the shin is not that big of a deal.
Kevin (07:37):
I know, but you feel like he said, you're gonna be in pain
for the rest of your life.
You were then going to wake upevery morning and go kick him in
the shin so that he couldexperience similar pain for the
rest of his life.
I
Angie (07:47):
don't, I'm say every morning.
I just wanted to go find him.
Kevin (07:49):
Every morning you're gonna have the shin of an
80-year-old when you're 40.
Angie (07:53):
How many times I kick it.
But yeah, it's just, it'sridiculous to me.
And I think that we strippeople.
Of hope and of a quality of lifeand people just, especially
people that don't know anybetter.
I thank God that I have themedical background that I have
and the knowledge and theexperience that I have and can
(08:14):
advocate for myself and for mypatients.
But there are so many otherpeople that.
Aren't in that field, are not inthe medical field, do not have
that type of knowledge.
And they see doctors as expertsas I can understand that there's
nothing wrong with that, but weas medical professionals have an
obligation to, if we are goingby the Hippocratic Oath, to
(08:37):
first do no harm.
And I don't think that doctorsunderstand.
What kind of harm, those typesof words and those types of
statements can do to a personpsychologically, emotionally,
and physically.
And we need to be so much moreaware of that.
back to you, if this is you, ifyou are a medical professional,
be very aware of the words thatyou use to all of your patients.
(08:59):
And if you are not, don't.
Take all of it as truth.
Take everything from everyprofessional with a grain of
salt.
Always get a second opinion.
If you don't like the first one,it's not hopeless.
Injuries and pain are not partof the process.
(09:20):
Running is actually good foryour knees.
That's another one that's I thatwe hear all the time.
That's related, but also notrelated.
But my whole point in this is toreally help you understand that
this myth shows up again andagain, and it can be so harmful.
And so today I really want toshow you why.
(09:40):
This whole idea of pain is justpart of the process is not true.
Where it comes from, first ofall, why it's not true, and then
what are some of the things thatyou can start doing about it
that actually are causing theinjury and actually causing the
pain so that you know what youcan actually start to address so
that you can start to get out ofthat cycle and start to release
(10:02):
this very harmful narrative thata lot of us have heard since we
started running.
Kevin (10:06):
Yeah, because you can put it on t-shirts and posters and
that phrase is not, pain is partof the process.
That phrase is no pain, no gain,or what I learned from one of my
very early bosses when I wasselling running shoes back as a
teenager, he always said thatthere are two types of runners,
which you hate this line just asmuch as all the other ones, but
there are two types of runners.
(10:27):
Runners who have been hurt, andrunners who haven't been hurt.
Yet that was his analysis ofeverybody around him and he said
it.
Angie (10:34):
He also is the one that put everybody in a stability
shoe.
I've got that issue with himalso.
He's no longer with us, RIP.
There you go.
but still, that doesn't makewhat he said.
Okay.
Kevin (10:43):
It's true.
But this man defined old schoolmentality, like he really did
and he.
Coached some very eliteathletes.
He himself was very talented andhe was big on pushing the
envelope, which I think is wherea lot of this comes from.
If you're really pushingboundaries with some elite
athletes, like internationally,elite athletes, then there is an
(11:05):
aspect of pushing the boundaryof how far can you push your
body and then pain and injurymay show up as a result.
I think what you are tacklinghere is that is not a normal way
of existence for.
Everybody else, like there maybe a small group of people who
are training to win a goldmedal.
(11:25):
I think that you are pushing theenvelope at a level that most of
humanity is not.
Like when I say I wanna pushmyself and see what I can get
out of myself, that is verydifferent than I wanna push so
hard that I wanna see if I'mgonna be one of the best in the
entire world.
I'm comparing myself to myselfWhen you start comparing to
others.
Then I think it goes into a moreslippery direction of, I need to
(11:49):
keep pushing.
I have to push through thisbecause if I take any days off,
then I'm gonna lose even moreground on that person.
I think that this competitionidea leads to no pain, no gain.
You've gotta push.
Always push through it, ignorethe body signals and just keep
going.
Angie (12:05):
Yeah, and I think that this.
Idea of no paying, no gain getsreinforced all the time in
sports and fitness and in ourculture, and it can be very
damaging.
there's runners out there that.
Almost bond over injuries asthese badges of honor and oh,
you've got shin splints today.
I've got my plantar fascitisacting up again.
(12:26):
And we, and people laugh aboutit because if not they'd cry.
There's that whole saying too.
But people actually bond overinjuries and I just think
wouldn't, aren't there betterthings we could be bonding over?
granted yes, we're going to bebonding over.
Different things that we gothrough in our lives and
unfortunately, injuries are athing that a lot of runners
(12:47):
experience, but holding injuriesas badges of honor, I think is a
very dangerous and a veryslippery slope because this can
lead to ignoring red flagsreally.
Ignoring the body because like Imentioned earlier, your body is
always talking to you.
Your body's always giving yousigns and symptoms to let you
(13:10):
know what's going on.
And your body, your foot can'tjust say, Hey, time to pull back
some mileage this week.
And It communicates via yournerves, via your pain, nerves
and pain signals of oh, there'sa little soreness.
There's a little stiffness here,and now there's a little
achiness.
there's different levels.
usually someone doesn't just.
Especially with running injuriessince running 10.
(13:31):
Running injuries tend to bemore, chronic and what's the
word I'm looking for?
They're
Kevin (13:35):
overuse injuries.
They're overuse
Angie (13:36):
injuries, right?
And so they creep up on you overtime.
So they start small and then youignore them, and then they get
bigger.
And then they get bigger, andthen they get bigger.
And this, ignoring our body andignoring the signs that our body
is trying to give us.
That prevents a lot of peoplefrom adjusting their training
early because we're taught tojust push through, no pain, no
(13:58):
gain, and if we think that it'snormal, if we think that pain is
part of the process, why wouldwe adjust anything?
Because this is how it's.
Supposed to feel.
This is what a lot of runnersthink, and this is really
encouraging over training andburnout, which then normalizes
dysfunction and poor trainingpractices.
And that's, in my opinion, whyso many runners get hurt because
(14:20):
they're.
Training in a way that theirbody is not yet ready for.
They're trying to overload thebody with mileage or with speed,
trying to push the pace becausethey have this idea in their
head of what runners should door what a good runner should do,
or what a good pace is.
And that number is completelyarbitrary and completely
(14:41):
different for everybody, andthey don't realize the
importance of some of the otherthings that we're going to talk
about today and how so muchpain.
Can be avoided and injuriesespecially can be avoided.
Now I'm talking about theseoveruse.
Recurring chronic types ofinjuries that so many
experience, because that is themajority.
(15:02):
Sometimes freak accidentshappen, right?
Sometimes you're running and youstep in a hole that you don't
see and you mess up your foot oryour ankle.
That's a different story.
Those injuries are veryunfortunate when they happen,
but that's not the type ofinjury that I'm talking about
today.
The ones that I'm talking abouttoday are those overuse injuries
that so many runners experiencethat kind of creep up on you
(15:24):
over time.
Kevin (15:25):
Okay, is there a category of injury that's like in
between, like your shoe stylechanges, you try out a different
shoe and something about the newshoe causes?
fairly quick onset of variouspaints.
Like you go from a shoe that,that is more rigid to one that's
a little more flexible andsuddenly plantar fasciitis
flares up on you.
(15:46):
Is that something that it's likea middle ground.
It's I did change something.
Maybe I should look at thesesignals that I'm getting and see
if I adjust from there.
Or is that kind of like a, Idon't know, just very quickly
waving a red flag at you becauseI feel like something like
runner's knee Which I dealt withfor
Angie (16:04):
Yeah.
Kevin (16:04):
I don't know ever.
it certainly felt like for along time until I met an angel.
and then, it strengthened a hipappropriately.
That was me.
Yes.
Yes it was.
But it seems like something likerunners need, what's your
Angie (16:17):
question?
Kevin (16:17):
It just gradually ever so slightly, got a little bit
worse.
Over the course of a month whereI've had like plantar fascia to
show up and that was like, Ifelt fine one day and the next
day I got outta bed and it feltlike I was stepping on nails.
Angie (16:30):
But it didn't just show up like it was probably talking
to you over time and you justdidn't realize it.
I think that's one of thebiggest things and proves my
point here, is that we're justtaught to ignore a lot of these
things and then all of a suddenit seems like it happens
overnight, but it totally doesnot.
And I think that, you mentioned.
A shoe change.
I just had this issue.
(16:50):
I just got a new pair of shoesand the shoes that I was running
in that I've been running in fora couple of years now.
The Brooks launch, they changedthe shoe, they changed the heel
drop on the shoe, and so Istarted feeling just, I think I
only ran in them four or fivetimes, and I could feel more
tightness in my plantar fascia.
I could start to feel it.
So I knew that if I were tocontinue running in those, that
(17:12):
something would have happenedand.
I know that I have tightness inmy plantar fascia, in my calves
in my ankle, and I don't doenough mobility.
So I have a choice.
I have a choice that I caneither ramp up the mobility and
all those things so that I couldwear those shoes, or I could
(17:34):
just get a different pair ofshoes.
But if I were to still keeprunning in those shoes, I could
tell very quickly that.
That was not going to lead to agood outcome.
Does that answer your question?
Yeah.
Kevin (17:44):
So this actually makes a lot of sense because, I haven't
dealt with something likeplantar fascitis since I was in
high school, and I was very muchrunning with a philosophy of if
it hurts, just pretend that itdoesn't.
Yeah.
that's really how we went topractice on most days.
Angie (17:58):
and that makes sense because you are part of a
competitive team and I thinkthat there's a lot of people
that are training that way thatmaybe were competitive at some
point in their life and they'rejust bringing that mentality
into running.
And there's also people thatbelieve that.
especially the people that werenot athletes before, they've
heard these mantras and theybelieve that this is what they
(18:20):
should be doing, even thoughit's actually not,
Kevin (18:23):
because they might have heard it from somebody who's
been running for 30 or 40 years
Angie (18:26):
or from a commercial On tv.
Kevin (18:28):
Yeah.
Or from a commercial.
Angie (18:29):
think about all the different, and that's why I say
this is not one thing.
This is like very deep in theculture that's giving us these
messages.
And so what I want you tounderstand.
Is that pain is not a sign thatyou're pushing yourself
appropriately.
There's a lot of people thatthink it is, if it hurts, that
means I'm doing it right.
That means I'm challengingmyself.
(18:50):
And this was one of thestatements that this social
media person said that kind oftriggered me into this whole, if
you follow me on Instagram, Iput a reel about this, today,
and then now we're doing apodcast about it because I
wanted to go deeper into it.
So pain is not a sign thatyou're pushing yourself
appropriately.
It's a sign that your body isnot adequately prepared for the
(19:13):
load that you're putting on it.
So yes, it's a sign that you'repushing yourself, but it's not a
sign that you're pushingyourself intelligently.
It's a sign that you're pushingyourself over the limits that
your body is able to handle.
And that's why pain shows up.
'cause again.
Pain is your body's way ofcommunicating yourself or of
communicating to you to let youknow, okay, hey, too much time
(19:36):
to pull back now.
We need to start listening, andthat's really the key here is we
need to start listening to ourbodies.
We need to start understandingthe signals that our body is
giving us, and then adjustthings appropriately so that we
can avoid pain and we can avoidinjury, and we can stay
consistent in our training.
I know you had a comment about.
(19:56):
About, pushing the envelope.
'cause this is a conversationthat Kevin and I have had before
too, and you started thisearlier with if you are a very
elite performer and you'retrying to make the Olympics, or
you are a professional runnerand your income literally.
Lays on is dependent upon yourperformance.
A lot of runners get paid basedon their performance in certain
(20:19):
races, if they hit certain timesor if they place in certain, a
certain place.
So it does matter that they arerunning fast.
There are times actually domatter because it is reflected
in their paycheck.
But most of you listening tothis podcast, and I'd venture to
say probably all of you aren't.
that's not your experience,that's not your running journey
(20:40):
right now.
That we're not, that's not thereason we're doing this.
If
Kevin (20:43):
you've paid entry fees to every race you've ever run, and
no one's ever flown you in andgiven you an entrance fee for
showing up at their race, it'sprobably better that you are
pushing yourself.
You're like, I'd like to test mylimits, but you're not running
so close to the red line.
Yeah.
Day in and day out that you'relike, you know what?
(21:04):
I'm feeling a little worn outtoday.
Maybe I should take a rest day,an extra rest day, a nice easy
recovery walk instead of beinglike, ah, I guess you know, I'm
not feeling great.
I'll go for an easy hour.
that's not a recovery day formost people.
Yeah.
When you're dealing with peoplewho are literally getting paid
five and six figure salaries forrunning really fast, the
(21:26):
difference between taking acouple of weeks off might mean
that they don't get.
Get into a race and that justshowing up to that race could be
worth 10 grand to them.
that is a very different mindsetthat person has.
And while it's great to look tothe elites and emulate certain
aspects of their training, weare not those people.
And so there's aspects that weshould not emulate, and perhaps
(21:48):
this is one of them.
if your life is dependent onthat income, then yes, I
understand the whole aspect ofpushing the envelope up to a
point.
Because then you get runnersthat get injured and then they
lose whatever contract they had.
it's a really fine line thatthey have to play.
I think the line is a lot lessfine.
I don't think we have to danceas close to the line with, real
life writers.
Angie (22:08):
I agree.
And because consistency is themost.
Important thing that is going tolead to your progress as a
runner.
And so if you feel like you needto continue to challenge
yourself and get as close tothat line as possible, that
means that sometimes you'regonna go over it and you're
gonna experience the pain or theinjury, and that's gonna set you
back.
So instead of just like gettingup to it, and then set back and
(22:29):
then up to it, and then setback, what if you just stayed a
little bit further away?
And never actually cross thatline and then just continue to
make progress over time.
that is an option too.
And that's really the optionthat we're.
Presenting here for you is toreally reframe your running
journey as a lifelong pursuit,not just as a short term thing
(22:51):
of like, how fast can I getright now?
It's really about changing theframe and like zooming out a bit
and saying, okay, how can I dothis successfully for as long as
I want to do this for?
And that's really what I wannahelp you with today.
So what I wanna do now is gothrough a list of reasons.
For why injuries happen, and Iwant you to think about this and
(23:13):
how this might apply to you.
To say, okay, what's my bodytrying to tell me here?
'cause that's really what I wantyou to start asking yourself.
Anytime an injury pops up, orespecially before, try to, catch
it before it actually turns intoan injury.
And if you've got like a littlebit of pain showing up, start
asking yourself these questions.
So okay, what could be causingthis right now?
(23:35):
So the first thing that I thinkis related to pretty much every
injury that I've seen.
Seen as a physical therapist ismuscle weakness and or
imbalance.
And this is especially common inwomen over 40, really all
runners over 40, but especiallywomen over 40 due to the
hormonal shifts and the musclechanges that we see in the body,
(23:56):
the changes in collagen and are,connective tissue and all of
these other things that aregoing on with our bodies.
It can lead to muscle weaknessand imbalance.
And this is especiallyprevalent.
In our glutes, like a lot ofweakness in your glutes and in
your hip muscles and in yourcore, that can lead to increased
stress on your joints.
(24:18):
specifically the knee.
People talk about knee pain inrunners all the time.
A lot of times knee pain is notdue to an actual problem with
the knee itself.
It's often due to weakness inthe hips and because of the way
that your foot hits the ground.
The forces are going throughyour knee and they're not being
absorbed properly by the body.
So that increased force throughthe knee because of the weakness
(24:41):
in the muscles, that's what'sactually causing some of the
breakdown and some of the painto occur.
Kevin (24:46):
So you point out the super common in women,
especially over 40, I think,super common in people who do a
lot of treadmill running.
Or very smooth sidewalk runningand not because sidewalks are
super hard.
But because there's no change inwhat you're running on.
It's super smooth surface and soyou don't have to deal with
anything lateral.
And because of that, because youcan just get into this straight
(25:07):
line running motion, you don'thave to activate your hips as
much as you run, and you can getfairly productive running
efforts.
Before you get to this pointwhere it's oh wait, I can only
push so far because my hipsdon't provide the stability that
I actually need.
Even when you're running in astraight line.
And then, we see this sometimeswith athletes that go to a lot
(25:29):
of treadmill because it'ssnowing outside.
It stops snowing, all the whitestuff melts and they go back
outside and they're running onuneven surfaces and suddenly,
bam, knee pain.
And it's because they haven't.
Had to worry about providingtheir own stability on a
treadmill.
Everything's nice and smooth.
Yeah, this was one of my bigissues because I wasn't
appropriately developed throughglutes and hips that I wasn't
(25:50):
able to run on uneven surfaceswithout causing the pain.
I was too used to running onsidewalks.
Angie (25:54):
Yeah.
And it, for those of you thathave younger kids, maybe you
have kids in middle school orhigh school that are getting
into running in cross countryalso, this is something that
really pops up in that age groupas well, again, due to those
hormone shifts.
Because of the body changes thatwe're seeing, especially in
girls.
So when girls go throughpuberty, the hi, their hips
(26:15):
widen, their ligaments getlooser, like everything is
stretching out as their body ischanging.
And so this can lead also to alot of weakness, specifically in
the hips.
This is why girls tend to have alot of knee pain and a lot of
shin splints and other issueslike that.
So if you have a daughterespecially, but.
This happens with boys as well,but especially with females,
(26:36):
because of the changes thatactually happen to the skeleton
and the widening of the hips.
During puberty.
you have to have them strengthtraining.
You gotta get them into astrength program.
If their school doesn't providestrength and conditioning, find
a strength and conditioningcoach.
find stuff for them online.
Reach out to somebody.
Find a physical therapist inyour area that can give you a
(26:57):
workout program.
It's not something that you haveto necessarily go to.
At multiple times per week.
But find a professional that cangive you a strengthening program
for your kid, and then make surethat they do it if they want to
stay injury free.
The second thing that is a topcause for injury is doing too
much too soon.
So this is ramping up your speedor ramping up your mileage too
(27:20):
fast.
So it's essentially trainingerrors, increasing your mileage,
your speed, your volume, withoutallowing your body enough time
to adapt.
Now.
If you are someone over 40 andmaybe you're new to running,
especially.
It takes longer for your body toadapt.
Now, and this is somethingthat's really important to keep
(27:40):
in mind.
So the same way that you mighthave been able to ramp up when
you were in your teens or inyour twenties is not the same
way that your body is now ableto ramp up your training.
So if you're someone that youknow, you're like, oh, I used to
run, and this is the same thingthat I did when I was 35, but
now you're 45 or you're 55, yourbody's different.
And that's yes, you are the sameperson.
(28:02):
But your body is different, andso it's really important for you
to honor where you are right nowin your life and in your
training, and allow your body togradually ramp itself back up
because adaptation takes time.
And if you're just addingtraining load to your body.
Without the proper amount oftime, you're just accumulating
(28:23):
that stress and accumulatingthat load, not actually allowing
that adaptation.
So your tissues like yourmuscles, your tendons, your
joints, all of these things needtime to adapt to your training.
If you're not giving it thatamount of time and you're trying
to ramp things up too quickly,that's a very good recipe for
injury.
Kevin (28:43):
All right, so this one can be really tough for people
to wrap their head around.
I need to go slower.
I need the buildup to go slowerbecause I just wanna get back to
where I was.
It's a lot of comparison toprevious self and one way to
alleviate some of this mentaldriving yourself nuts is.
Occasionally, it's okay if oneday you do a little bump up, but
(29:04):
it slides into your next pointof making sure that you have
enough recovery.
It's okay if you're like, I usedto be able to go out and run 45
minutes every day and now I'm at30 and I wanna be able to go
from 30 to 45, but it's probablybetter to go from 30 to 35 and
then to 40 minutes and then to45.
Yeah.
It's okay if you're like, can Ijust run 45?
(29:24):
Sure.
And then take a rest day on thenext one, like it's okay to
pulse up to something a littlebit higher, a little bit
abnormal for a day, and thenpull back.
As long as you have that actualpullback.
Angie (29:37):
And that really leads to number three, the third cause of
injury, which is training toofrequently without adequate
recovery breaks.
So trying to run every day ortrying to run, jump from zero
days of running into a halfmarathon training plan that now
gives you four days of runningwithout allowing your body to.
Actually get to that pointagain, surefire recipe for
(29:59):
injury, you have to haverecovery.
You have to ramp upappropriately.
And then, like Kevin just said,you have to have the appropriate
and adequate amount of recoverybecause your body takes again.
Longer to adapt.
So recovery becomes even moreimportant because recovery is
actually the time that your bodygets stronger during your
(30:19):
training.
And this is one of the thingsthat not a lot of people
understand unless your listenersto this podcast, which puts you
ahead of the game, which isawesome.
When you are training, your bodyis actually breaking down.
And during rest and recovery,that's when your body builds
back.
Stronger than it was before, aslong as you're giving it
(30:39):
yourself.
Number four, which is properfueling and nutrition.
Okay, so another cause ofinjury.
Cause number four that is verycommon is under fueling or poor
nutrition.
People that don't eat enough tosupport their training.
That is a.
Big cause of injury because ifyou're not eating enough, that
leads to a condition called lowenergy availability or LEA.
(31:03):
And this can lead to a conditioncalled RED S, which is relative
energy deficiency in sport,which used to be known as the
female athlete triad.
Now we realize that this happensto guys too, so thank you.
So they've renamed it.
But essentially if you'regetting to a point of low energy
availability, and then ofcourse, especially if you go all
the way to red S, that's REDS.
(31:26):
Your tissues are breaking down,but it affects pretty much every
system in your body.
It affects your hormones, ityour endocrine system, your
circulatory system, yourmusculoskeletal system, your
nervous system.
All of the systems in your bodyare affected by low energy
availability because like Isaid, during that recovery time,
your body wants to build backstronger, but it's like trying
(31:49):
to build a house without cement.
If you have maybe some Someblocks and you have some wood,
but you don't have cement andyou don't have nails, you have
nothing to actually hold thehouse together.
It's not, you're not gonna getvery far.
You're not actually going to beable to build a strong house,
and that's what nutrition givesyou.
If you give your bodyappropriate nutrition, that,
especially protein andcarbohydrates, that's going to
(32:11):
allow your body to buildstronger muscles, stronger
bones, and when you don't.
Then your muscle recovery andyour bone density suffer,
especially if you're a womanover 40 and you're in
perimenopause or post menopause.
We're already fighting thisbattle where we're losing muscle
and we're losing bone because ofthe loss of estrogen that we're
(32:32):
experiencing during thesehormone shifts during this time
of our lives.
So if you then.
Don't eat enough on top of that,you're just making it even worse
and you're not giving your bodywhat it needs in order to get
stronger.
Kevin (32:46):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite, like exercise
physiology studies.
they were trying to determinewhat contributes to over
training versus under fueling,and they determined essentially
there is no such thing as overtraining.
That was essentially theconclusion they got.
That was their
Angie (32:59):
interpretation.
It was their
Kevin (33:01):
interpretation, but.
It.
It leads to a good argument.
Yeah.
Of there is only under fueling.
That as long as you provideenough fuel because the fuel
helps all of the recoveryprocess.
They suggested thattheoretically if there was
enough fuel that you couldcontinue to train now and sleep.
Yes, I know it's you.
You've got the point coming.
(33:22):
I see it coming.
That's why I made the point now.
But the argument was, is that itwas simply a lack of providing
enough fuel that led to all ofthe over training injuries.
And so if you're like, oh, I'mdoing fine.
I took a recovery day, but youreduced your calorie intake
because you didn't go run onyour recovery day.
That's an issue.
Like on a recovery day, you needto make sure that you're still
(33:43):
fueling your body and so manypeople.
Eat fewer calories on recoveryday because they don't do the
exercise.
Yeah.
So they're like, I don't need totake in the calories.
But as you just pointed out, youneed the calories on the
recovery day because that's whenyou're doing the rebuilding.
Angie (33:57):
Yeah.
And I, it's arguable of do youneed more calories on those days
even.
And there is some debate andsome discussion, I should say,
in the.
In the literature and amongstexperts of when is it more
important?
It's just important both times,right?
it's important, if we're gonnabe real, like it's important on
your training days and on yourrecovery days, you should not be
eating a ton less calories onrecovery days just because
(34:21):
you're not exercising.
All right, moving on to numberfive.
The number five reason whyinjuries happen is lack of sleep
and stress recovery.
So if you are not sleeping well,if you're not getting enough
sleep, or if the sleep that youare getting is not good quality
sleep, or if you're constantlystressed out, What person in
(34:42):
midlife doesn't experiencestress, right?
But if you're someone that'sconstantly stressed, your body
can't repair because yournervous system is constantly in
fight or flight mode.
When you are under a lot ofstress, your body, we basically
have two main operating modes.
We have sympathetic nervoussystem and parasympathetic
nervous system.
Granted, this is oversimplifyingeverything.
(35:04):
I understand that.
Okay.
But.
When we are very stressed andwhen our body does, or when
we're overstressed, when we'reunder fueled, when we're
undersleep.
When we're undercovered, yourbody's in sympathetic mode.
Think about how you feel whenyou don't get enough sleep.
How much patience do you have?
How much understanding do youhave when your husband doesn't
(35:26):
do the thing you asked him todo?
How do you feel when you're not,when you haven't eaten enough?
How's your patience level then?
Like you, we know, we've all hadthese experiences where we're
exhausted and, patience is justnon-existent, right?
every little thing seems totrigger you.
Yeah.
You're not alone.
And that's because your nervoussystem.
(35:46):
Is in sympathetic stress mode.
And so your body cannot repairitself when you are stuck in
stress mode because your restand recovery and repair mode is
your parasympathetic nervoussystem.
So it's really important for usto get enough sleep and to
understand how to decreasestress in our lives so that our
body can switch over intoparasympathetic mode so that you
(36:10):
can actually recover and adaptto training because again.
Recovery is when you getstronger, not during the
training itself.
Kevin (36:19):
All right.
So I know, we've been marriedfor a long time.
I know one of the best ways tofeel less stressful is just have
somebody tell you to feel lessstressful.
It's always, that's
Angie (36:28):
a surefire way.
It's
Kevin (36:29):
always a good win.
it's guaranteed.
Angie (36:32):
Why don't you just relax a little bit?
Yes.
Kevin (36:34):
That's the phrase.
Oh,
Angie (36:35):
oh, you're right.
I didn't.
Think of that.
I should probably relax.
Kevin (36:39):
Why don't you just relax, just have somebody say that.
Maybe even walk around with anindex card to give to people so
that they can tell you thatstatement because nothing calms
you down.
Quite like having somebody tellyou just relax.
Yeah, that's what I got.
Angie (36:54):
Is that's it.
You just wanted to add that inthere.
Yeah.
Kevin (36:55):
I really just wanted to add that in
Angie (36:57):
of what not to do.
Yeah.
Kevin (36:59):
You
Angie (36:59):
know?
Do you have an adage of What todo instead here.
Kevin (37:02):
here's the thing.
No one, like outside sources arereally bad places to go to try
and get you to relax like youcan feel when you're over
overstimulated and overstressed.
And my best way is pulling outof a situation.
Like I literally, I have toleave the situation.
I know I can feel it coming,that I'm way overstressed and I
have to pull away and go to aquiet place.
(37:24):
And I know I can take some deepbreaths and bring myself back to
a more normal place.
But having anybody suggest thatyou need to just calm down is by
far the worst.
Angie (37:33):
What if Taylor Swift sings it to you?
Kevin (37:34):
No, I don't.
You
Angie (37:36):
need to calm down?
Kevin (37:37):
No, please, no.
Angie (37:38):
Oh, come on.
No, that will definitely help.
Right?
Kevin (37:41):
No,
Angie (37:42):
you're being too loud.
Okay.
so those are really the topfive.
And then the overarchingprinciple behind all of this
that we said at the beginningthat I'm gonna reiterate now,
are these faulty beliefs, likepart of the reason that injuries
occur is are these beliefs thatpain is normal?
Or I just need to push throughbecause if you're continuously
just ignoring warning signs oryou think that injury means that
(38:06):
you're doing it right, or that'sjust me getting stronger, like
that pain is a sign that mybody's getting stronger.
That what is that?
You like that voice?
What was that?
I don't know.
It was a good one though.
I was like, sweat is your fatcrying.
that's another, that's a shirtthat I've seen.
Was that like.
The sound
Kevin (38:23):
of your achy muscle.
Was that like a hamstring sound?
I don't know,
Angie (38:26):
but it was like a guy from like the old West, I think.
Like old cowboy.
Kevin (38:32):
So Angie's,
Angie (38:33):
cowboys, no pain.
Sure.
Yes.
Okay.
I, and I stopped watchingYellowstone a while ago, so I
can't even explain that.
But anyway, hopefully youunderstand now.
Okay.
There's a lot of reasons thatyou are experiencing pain and
injury, and you don't have to.
There's a lot of things that youcan do.
There's a lot of control thatyou have, and if you want
(38:55):
guidance, I'm gonna say thisagain later in the episode, but
if you want guidance and if youwant a plan, and if you want
people to help you, come jointhe team.
I love helping people start torewrite their running story and
to understand that they canimprove no matter their age and
no matter what their experiencehas been.
Up until this point, as long asyou start doing things the right
(39:15):
way.
And I love seeing the joy andthe satisfaction in people that
start to get results.
And it's just the best thingever.
So real life runners.com/team.
So come join us.
Alright.
Here are some ways how.
To prevent injury and start tofeel good again.
Okay, and again, this is metalking to you as a physical
(39:36):
therapist for the past 18 yearsas a running coach for the past
10.
These things that we're gonna betalking about now, these are
non-negotiables.
All right.
These are the cornerstones.
They are not the sexy thingsthat everybody loves to put on
Instagram, but these are thethings that are actually gonna
help you run strong and preventinjury.
Okay.
No, that
Kevin (39:55):
first one could go on Instagram.
Angie (39:56):
they all could technically, but the
Kevin (39:59):
second one's not cool for Instagram, but the first one,
definitely video.
Okay, so
Angie (40:02):
the first one is, number one is strength training.
Okay.
You have to strength training.
Strength training isnon-negotiable as a runner,
especially as a runner over 40,especially focusing on.
Single leg strength and powerbecause this helps to make your
joints stronger and help toimprove your running mechanics.
We have to be training all ofour muscles.
(40:23):
We have to be doing compoundmovements like squats, dead
lifts, those kinds of things.
Those are foundational movementsthat every runner should be
doing.
And then as runners, it's alsovery important for us to be
doing single leg movementsbecause running is a single leg
sport.
You are jumping over and overfrom one leg to another.
that's what running is.
it's jumping from one leg toanother, so you have to be able.
(40:46):
To stabilize yourself and tocreate power while standing on
one leg.
So single leg exercises areabsolutely crucial for us as
runners.
You wanna tell'em number two?
Kevin (40:56):
Number two, progressive personalized running plans, not
your basic generic mileage basedplan.
Ai.
Can churn out quality plans, butthey can't actually make
something that works very wellfor you.
It's just not there.
That's, I think, one of thebiggest holdbacks of AI plans
right now.
Yeah.
But they
Angie (41:16):
say that they can, but they're actually not, and this
is try to, ask AI.
some question about yourself,like they get pretty close.
they can get pretty close, butthey don't know the full
picture.
Kevin (41:26):
That's the problem is they get frighteningly close.
So it seems like the planactually is really well done to
you.
This is the benefit of havingcoaches is even if the plan is
not perfectly done right towardsyou, you can then check in with
coaches and be like, Hey.
It seems like something might beoff and you can actually get
adjustments.
Yeah, that's, that's yourultimate win on that guy is
being able to have a coach thatyou can check in with, but a
(41:48):
personalized running plan thatactually fits where you are, not
where you have been, not whereyou'd like to go.
It gets you towards where you'dlike to go, but it's rooted in
where you currently are.
It knows your strength, it knowsyour weaknesses, and it knows
what it needs to build on.
That's the plan that you need.
Angie (42:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Number three is to prioritizerecovery.
As a runner over 40, you have tobe taking rest days.
You should not be training everysingle weeks.
Rest days are really importantbecause recovery is part of your
training.
Recovery is when your bodyactually gets stronger.
You also, another really greatthing to add into your training
(42:26):
are.
What are called deloading weeks.
So you ramp up, you increaseyour load, and then you pull it
back.
You decrease your load for aweek.
That helps your body to adapt.
It helps your body to catch up,give your body a little bit more
time to adapt, and that is goingto actually help you.
In the long run, people arelike, oh, I don't wanna pull
back.
I don't wanna lose my progress.
(42:46):
I don't wanna lose mymotivation.
It's actually really good foryour body.
It's good for your you,physically, emotionally,
psychologically, deload weeksare fantastic.
And then the third thing thatwill help you with recovery are
is cross training.
Okay?
As a runner over 40.
You definitely do not need to berunning every day.
If you are someone that likes tomove your body every day, I'm
(43:06):
one of those people.
I like to move every day, startdoing other things.
Okay.
You can do walking, you can dobiking, you can do swimming and
yoga.
There's lots of other options aslong as they feel.
Easy.
Okay.
This is the goal is not toreplace a run with a bootcamp
style hit workout.
Okay?
That's not what we're going for.
When I say cross training, theidea is to still give your body
(43:28):
the recovery that it needs, butmaybe it can be something
outside of running,
Kevin (43:31):
but you could also, it.
Doesn't exactly fall into yourcategory of recovery here, but
you could u replace one of yourharder running days with a hard
cross training day.
And as we get a little bitolder, that's
Angie (43:42):
Yeah.
As, as long as it's hard forhard
Kevin (43:44):
it's appropriate replacing, it's not replacing
easy with hard cross trainingjust because it's less impact on
the knees.
that's not the goal here.
All right, so next one, fuel.
Like an athlete, embrace all ofyour macros, all of them,
especially your carbs.
Prioritize your protein,especially during a post run.
You need to make sure that youare putting the fuel into you
after a run.
(44:04):
There was a study that came outthat suggests that endurance
athletes need even more proteinthan, heavy lifting athletes or
like football pla I forget whatthe sport was.
They were comparing it to, butendurance runners.
But it said that they needed itmore on recovery days.
Even more on recovery days.
So don't ignore carbs.
They are the fuel for your fire,but don't ignore proteins or
your body can't actually buildback and get stronger.
(44:26):
You wanna, they're allimportant.
Angie (44:27):
All right.
I'm gonna call you out now.
Oh God.
Tell everybody what happened toyou the other day.
Kevin (44:31):
Monday.
Angie (44:32):
yes.
Your long run was Sunday.
Yeah.
You did 16 miles.
I did.
And then how'd you feel onMonday?
Kevin (44:38):
I was worthless on Monday because I didn't eat at anywhere
near enough on Sunday.
I think I missed lunchessentially.
You
Angie (44:45):
did?
Because we had a, our daughterhad a dance competition.
Kevin (44:47):
She did awesome.
Angie (44:48):
She did awesome.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But.
How did you take care ofyourself?
Kevin (44:51):
I took care of, she did awesome.
Let's go with She did great andI really paid for my complete
lack of taking care of myself onMonday.
I was worthless.
And you were annoyed.
You didn't show that you wereannoyed.
You did an awesome job of I didtoo.
Hiding your, yeah, but I
Angie (45:09):
did too.
Kevin (45:09):
You hid how annoyed you were.
Angie (45:12):
Most of the day, yes, you did it, it came out at the end
of the day,
Kevin (45:15):
yes.
But for most of the day, you hidjust how annoyed with me you
were.
And I appreciated that because Iclearly was an idiot and did not
take care of myself.
Angie (45:25):
So you didn't fuel appropriately on.
Your day of your long run.
Yeah.
So you were essentiallyhungover, and he didn't drink,
like there was no alcoholinvolved, but you essentially
acted like you were hungover onMonday.
Kevin (45:36):
I really, I, that's what I felt like.
Yeah.
All day long.
I just had this like low levelheadache that kind of moved to
nausea and just exhausted allday long.
I was worthless all Monday.
I really was, and we needed toget stuff done.
Angie (45:47):
so it, but that's the lesson, right?
you've been eating a good amounttoday Yes.
To try to, and you tried to eatyesterday, but that was tough
with the nausea.
But this is, this stuff isimportant guys, and this is the
other thing that I want you tohear is that, yes, we're telling
you that this is a, butsometimes we don't always I
would say we follow our ownadvice most of the time, but
(46:07):
like sometimes quote unquote,life gets in the way.
Like Kevin.
We had a dance competition andhe was prioritizing our
daughter.
I don't know why he wasn'teating along in the process
because I did fine with eating.
But you did
Kevin (46:19):
just fine.
apparently I couldn't eat.
Angie (46:21):
I don't know what, I don't know what to say there,
these things are important andif you're going to be an
endurance athlete, which as arunner, you are an endurance
athlete, you have to fuel likeone, you have to.
Give your body what it needs oryou're gonna get hurt, you're
gonna things are gonna happen.
This is one of the big reasonswhy injuries occur, because
especially, women when they getinto this phase of life.
(46:43):
And they start gaining weight orthey, the fat distribution
starts to change because of thehormone shifts that we're going
through.
They start restricting calories.
They go back to that old dietmindset, and then they end up
injured because they're stilltrying to run.
And a lot of women try to rampup their training because
they're trying to lose weight.
So they're trying, it's thisrest, another recipe for
disaster.
They're trying to ramp up theirtraining, but they're cutting
(47:04):
their calories and restrictingtheir food on top of it.
Then all of a sudden there's allthese pains and injuries that
pop up.
Yes.
No bueno.
Kevin (47:12):
No, no bueno at all.
And finally, I think finally
Angie (47:16):
the biggest thing that you need to do, and this is
really one of the bigoverarching principles of this
episode, is to tune into yourbody and not just your watch.
You have to forget about.
The paces and all the thingsthat you're, these metrics that
we as runners love and I knowthat you're gonna have a hard
time with that, especially, thisis a conversation that we even
(47:37):
had today on our coaching callwith multiple, of our current
clients.
This is not an easy thing.
And I'm not telling you thissaying, oh yeah, you should.
This is easy.
Just let it go.
Tune into your body, ignore yourwatch.
Like I understand howchallenging that can be because
there's a lot of ego involved,and I don't say that in a bad
way, that it's just the truth.
(47:58):
Like we all have.
the, our own beliefs about whatwe can do or what we think we
should be able to do, the waythat our body should feel and
when it doesn't match up withreality, a lot of times we try
to fight it.
And so what I am inviting you todo is to.
Realize where you are right now.
Accept it with love.
(48:19):
Learn how to tune into yourbody, not just pay attention to
your watch.
If pain does show up, don'tignore it.
Ask yourself these questions.
Okay, what areas am I maybe notgiving enough attention to here?
And then adjust, adjust yourplan.
If you're, if you've beenramping up, pull back on your
mileage.
Take an extra rest day, seeksome support.
(48:40):
Take it seriously.
your body is amazing.
Your body is.
Always giving you messages.
All you have to do is reallystart to listen.
So if you can start to reframerunning as a lifelong practice,
not just this temporarychallenge, this is going to
become much easier.
You're gonna start to see, okay,wait, if I take one rest day.
(49:02):
In the scheme, in the largescheme of things, that's gonna
be really good for me here.
It's not going to set me back.
Kevin (49:08):
No, a hundred percent.
A rest day is much better thanthree rest weeks that are forced
upon you.
Yeah.
Run one rest day that you arechoosing to take is a much
better option.
Being sidelined does not meanthat you're not doing aging
correctly.
It means that you need toactually adjust your training to
your.
Current training ability, whatthat strengths and those
weaknesses and thatrecoverability timeline is, I've
(49:30):
had to completely shift my wholetraining week for the last
couple of years because I needmore rest, more recovery days
between my hard runs.
It's just a complete overhaul.
It's just that you need toevolve your training system as
you, as a human continue to growand adapt.
Angie (49:45):
Absolutely.
You can still grow, you canstill progress, you can still
challenge yourself without yourbody breaking down without
injury.
So what if instead of pain,instead of injury being a normal
part of running or a normal partof aging, what if feeling
strong, feeling energized andfeeling pain free was your
(50:08):
normal?
Is that even a possibility?
Like when I say that, what comesup for you?
Because that's what I want to benormal, because p pain is not a
badge of honor.
It's feedback from your body.
You can feel good in yourforties, your fifties, your
sixties, your seventies, youreighties, right?
Like your body is incredible.
(50:30):
So let's start treating it thatway.
Let's start honoring it that wayfor the incredible thing that it
is.
So that's what we've got for youguys today.
If you enjoyed this episode, Iwould love for you to share it
with a friend, especially if youhave that friend that needs to
hear this message.
Share it on social media.
Leave us a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify.
(50:50):
We read every single podcast orevery single review, and those
reviews really help us to reachnew listeners.
So as always, guys, thanks somuch for joining us.
Oh, and of course, if you wantsupport, come join the team,
real life runners team.
We are here for you.
We've got group coaching andgroup support with.
Personalized plans.
Okay?
It's a hybrid program where youget the best of both worlds.
(51:10):
You get a personalized plan tomeet you where you are, that
gives you all of your runs, allof your strength training, and
then you get this amazingsupport of coaches and a group
of other runners that are thereto support you on your journey.
So check that outtoday@realliferunners.com.
Forward slash team, and thanksfor joining us today.
This has been The Real LifeRunners podcast, episode number
415.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
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