November 13, 2025 • 56 mins
In this week’s episode, Kevin and I dive into something that so many runners (especially my fellow Type A personalities!) will relate to — the paradox of control.
As runners, we love our plans, our paces, our structure. Control helps us stay consistent and push toward our goals. But when that need for control starts to take over, it can also lead to stress, frustration, and even burnout — both on the run and in life.
We open up about some personal experiences — from remodeling our bathroom (hello, chaos!) to grieving the loss of our sweet pet — and how those moments reminded us that not everything can or should be controlled. Sometimes, the best growth happens when we learn to let go and allow space for life (and training) to unfold.
In this episode, we talk about:
🏃♀️ How control can be both your superpower and your stumbling block
🧠 Why surrendering doesn’t mean giving up — it means trusting the process
💡 The mindset shift that helps you find freedom and flow in your running
📓 A journaling prompt to reflect on where you might need to take more control… or where it’s time to let go
If this resonates, we’d love for you to take a few minutes to reflect and share your insights with us — or bring them to your next run and see what comes up.
🎧 Tune in now and let’s explore what it really means to find balance between holding on and letting go.
00:00 Introduction to the Paradox of Control
09:35 Cross Country Team and Control
12:34 Understanding Control and the Nervous System
19:33 Effort, Consistency, and Mindset
28:51 Shifting Belief Systems
30:50 Grace and Patience with a New Dog
33:03 Uncontrollable Factors in Running
36:06 Hormonal Influences and Control
40:05 Structured Flexibility in Training
42:31 Balancing Control and Surrender
52:03 Invitation to the Real Life Runners Team
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast, episode
(00:02):
number 435.
So as runners, a lot of us,maybe even most of us, are type
A.
We're very organized, driven,data oriented, because that
control gives us a sense ofsafety and progress.
But there's a paradox in thisbecause that same desire for
control that helps us to succeedcan also create frustration and
tension and burnout.
(00:23):
Especially when things don't goto plan.
So control feels like safety,but it can also become a cage.
So join us today as we talkabout the paradox of control.
(00:56):
What's up, runners?
Welcome back to the show.
Kevin is back with us today.
Kevin (01:01):
I'm back.
I'm
Angie (01:03):
back.
Thank you all, um, so much forall of you that.
Reached out about the recoveryseries that we just finished.
We did four episodes, all aboutthe Science of Recovery, and
Kevin did episode one with me,and then I basically did three
on my own because the.
Life lately has been quitecrazy.
(01:23):
And that's kind of what inspiredthis episode as well, in fact.
Um, but Kevin's back and I'mglad to have him here with us
today.
So today we're talking about theparadox of control and I was
kind of thinking about, youknow, now that the.
Series on recovery has ended.
What are we gonna talk aboutnow?
I, and I really enjoyed thisseries theme and I think I'm
(01:44):
gonna be definitely doing moreseries in the future.
What did you think about those,Kev?
I mean,
Kevin (01:49):
I liked the series.
I listened to the series.
I was like, oh, I would'vecommented this at that point.
Like I was, it was funny becauselike on other podcasts that I
listen to, I'm like, oh, this isa great podcast listening to you
on the.
On an episode that you're goingsolo.
I'm like, and that's where Iwould've made that funny joke.
Like, that's like, and, and thenI would've interjected with this
comment.
And like, it's, it's funny tolisten to, yeah.
(02:11):
How I would've tried tocontribute to it, but I thought
they were just so, so veryinformative, so useful, and like
practical advice in a lot ofthem.
Angie (02:19):
Well, thank you my love.
So.
Now that that series is wrappedup, and if you missed any of
those, go back and check out thelast four episodes, especially
if you want to improve yourperformance and really just feel
better in your running becauserecovery is really the hidden
secret.
It's not just about what you doin your training and your
workouts, it's about how you'rerecovering and how you're
maximizing your progress andyour adaptation through
(02:42):
recovery.
But when I was talk, thinkingabout today's episode, um.
Things have kind of been nuttyaround here lately, and I feel
like I have not really is
Kevin (02:52):
an interesting word choice.
Angie (02:53):
The last few months, I would say lately is, you know,
things have been kind of weirdand I haven't really been
myself, and there's a lot ofreasons for that.
But one of the big reasons thatkind of all this is happening is
our bathroom renovation.
So those of you that havefollowed here on the podcast, I
think we've talked about it alittle bit on social media.
(03:14):
I've talked about it a littlebit, but.
I was thinking about thebathroom renovation.
So long story short, we foundmold in our girl's bathroom.
So this was on July 1st, waswhen the mold remediation
company actually came out andsaid, uh, this doesn't look
good.
We're gonna have to cut into thewall.
And, and so they startedbasically the bathroom
(03:36):
demolition on July 8th.
So really that first week ofJuly.
And my girls have not had abathroom since then and they
have had a partial bathroom formaybe a month or two.
'cause they're long, like we hadto, uh, file claims with the
insurance and then we had tofile two claims.
And so they repaired part of thebathroom, but not the whole
(03:59):
thing and the shower.
Is almost done.
We are almost to a fullyfunctioning bathroom.
So the majority of thereconstruction is done.
We're just kind of waiting onsome, some plumbing and some
details.
At this point.
Kevin (04:13):
We might actually have a usable bathroom by the time
you're listening to this, whichis super on Thursday, which is
exciting for everybody.
On
Angie (04:19):
Thursday when we release this, everything should be
completed.
So, um, we're crossing ourfingers, but I feel like this is
just an example of control andreally lack of control, and I am
the kind of person.
That likes control, as I thinkprobably a lot of our listeners
are.
I think as runners, that'sreally a big part of who we are.
We like, you know, we're type A,we like to control things.
(04:43):
Running seems like a verycontrollable thing in theory,
which if you've been running forany given length of time, you
know that's not always the case.
And you know that progress isnot linear.
We've mentioned that many timeson the podcast, but I feel like
this bathroom renovation wasreally.
Just continuous examples andcontinuous proof to me that
(05:04):
there are a lot of things that Ican control, and there's also a
lot of things that are out of mycontrol that I need to let go of
because trying to hold onto itand trying and just getting
frustrated or getting stressedout about the situation really
isn't doing much.
And there is a lot of thingsthat were outside of my control
I couldn't control.
The speed with which the claimwas approved and the insurance
(05:29):
and the contractors andeverything on that end.
But I also acknowledge thatthere were a lot of things that
were in my control that I alsodelayed, that I, I didn't make
the decisions that I needed tomake quickly enough, like
picking out the tile or orderingthe fixtures, um, because I
didn't wanna mess it up.
You know, I, I wanted thisbathroom to look beautiful and.
(05:52):
I wanted it to be quote unquoteworth.
Worth it, right?
Like worth all of the hasslethat we were going through.
And although I have a wonderfulhusband and wonderful children,
a lot of these decisions reallyfell on my shoulders.
Kevin (06:07):
No, pretty much all of the decisions fell on your
shoulders.
Um, and a lot of the supervissupervision of the construction
itself,'cause you work fromhere.
So then you work.
Trapped in the house on thesedays where like construction was
actually taking place or youwere trapped even when
construction wasn't takingplace.
'cause it's like, oh, they'regoing to show up at some point
(06:27):
in time today.
Angie (06:28):
Or they would, they were supposed to show up at eight 30
and they ended up showing up at1130.
Kevin (06:32):
Right.
But that you're still trappedfrom eight 30 to 1130 because
you, I don't know when they'regonna show up.
Right.
They're gonna show up at seven.
Well, they're supposed to behere at 1130, so it's nine.
I probably shouldn't leave.
They could be here any minute ortwo and a half hours from now.
Right.
Isn't it?
Basically all of it dropped onyou, and it was a matter of
like.
You trying to figure out what itwas that you were capable of
(06:52):
still doing inside of some ofthese sort of locked in
parameters.
Angie (06:55):
Yeah.
And then on top of that, we lostour dog in a very tragic
accident, um, on September 1stand that, so I was just
emotionally wrecked basicallyfor the month of September.
Um, I'd really never experiencedgrief like that, so it was like
I was in probably one of theworst mental states that I've.
Uh, possibly ever experiencedand having to make all of these
(07:19):
decisions on my own and dealwith all of the baloney and all
of this, and there was a lotthat I just decided to shut down
and I didn't want to make thedecisions.
And I think that.
You know, a lot of times we, alot of us can experience that.
You know, a lot of us thinkthat, oh, if I just control all
(07:40):
of these things, if I just planhard enough, if I train smart
enough, if I control everyvariable, we're gonna GU
guarantee success.
But life and running don't workthat way.
And when I thought, oh, youknow, would this whole mold
thing happen?
I was like, oh, we'll have thisdone in just like a couple of
weeks.
And that's when they say that weas humans, plan.
(08:00):
And then God laughs.
Right.
Kevin (08:02):
Well, because one of the things you say is if, if we're
able to just control everyvariable, and when you take this
from a bathroom renovation wherethere's a lot of variables that,
that we can't even think of, andyou move it into, say, running,
we're, we're, we're moving theconversation into, there are so
many variables inside of runningthat we don't even think of that
we're like, oh, if I just getthe training plan, that will
(08:24):
increase my endurance, but itwill also work on my speed and I
can handle the strength.
But our body doesn't just like.
Increase endurance.
There's so many different layersinvolved in increasing
endurance.
There is, when you go in and doa strength routine, there are
different levels of strengththat are increasing.
Are you increasing explosivepower?
Are you building size?
Like, what is it that you'reactually increasing along the
(08:44):
way?
So to say, oh, well I'll just,I'll control all the variables,
is to be like, oh, well, I'lljust balance these 10,000 things
simultaneously.
Yeah.
You know, I, I can juggle, I canjuggle three objects in the air
simultaneously.
But I can't do a fourth one.
And as soon as you try and throwa fourth one at me, I drop the
first three.
So if, if you're like, oh, wellI just control all the variables
(09:06):
inside of my running, you'remore likely to end up dropping
all of the variables inside ofyour running.
The more control you try and putover it.
And I think that's where we,you've got this whole idea of
the, the com, uh, the paradox ofcontrol.
The more you try to control, thetougher it is to actually
control the things.
Angie (09:24):
Right.
And I think that.
We don't necessarily even thinkabout it as controlling the
variables.
I think of that we oftentimeswant to control the outcomes,
which we genuinely have prettymuch no control over in if we're
really getting down to it.
There's a lot of things that wecan't control.
We can, we can influence theoutcomes through our actions,
(09:44):
through our attitude, throughour recovery, through our
adaptability, but we can'tactually control the outcome of
the race.
You don't, you never know.
There's so many.
Variables outside of yourcontrol that influence how you
perform on any given day.
And this is one of the thingswe've been talking about with
our cross country team as well,because our girls cross country
(10:05):
team has advanced from districtsto the regional competition.
And so we run in regionals onFri this Friday, November, what
day is that?
14th?
Yep.
So if you're listening to thison Thursday or Friday, please
keep us in your prayers and inmind.
Um, we're Friday, early Fridaymorning at 8:00 AM.
Our girls run in the regionalmeet and if they, if we are in
(10:27):
the top eight teams at theregional meet, we go on to the
state championship.
And so that's obviously been ourgoal all season long, is to make
it back to states.
And so all season long we'vebeen talking to both girls and
boys teams about the things thatwe have control over versus the
things that we don't havecontrol over.
And this week we are.
In all of our practices, we'regoing over okay, going to the
(10:50):
state meet, running well at theregional meet doesn't just.
Depend on Friday.
It depends on what we're doingall week long, not just at
practice, but also how you'retaking care of yourself all week
long.
And then I ask them, okay, whatdoes that mean?
What do you need to be doing?
And they obviously know thequote unquote right answers at
this point.
(11:11):
They're like, we need to besleeping well and eating well
and eating enough and this andthat.
I'm like, okay, but what doesthat actually mean?
What time are you gonna go tobed?
Because that's the stuff youhave control over.
And so one of the girls said,between nine and 10, I said,
okay.
Is that feasible?
Is that a a, a reasonable thingfor you this week?
'cause you know, kind of whattests you have going, you know,
(11:31):
what your homework load is goingto be at this point in time.
Is it reasonable for you to goto bed between nine and 10 if
you get your homework done andjust maybe aren't on social
media as much?
Right?
Like, these are the things thatwe, we talk about them with them
because those are the thingsthat we do have control over.
And that's what's reallyimportant is to.
When we talk about the paradoxof control, the first part of it
(11:55):
is recognizing what we do havecontrol over and what we don't
have control over.
Kevin (12:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, so much of that isthe, the kids, especially at
this point in the season, theyknow the right answer and they
can give you the right answer.
But then are they actuallytaking control of that?
And I think that a lot of that,a lot of us do that ourselves
is, oh, well, I.
I can control this.
This is what I'm supposed to dothis, this is my plan.
But then we let that slip awayand we focus back on outcome.
(12:24):
Mm-hmm.
Instead of focus on the thingsthat could possibly influence
like, oh, and it's to go withthe race example on this Friday.
It's just thinking about what doI have to do for those 20 to 25
minutes?
Right.
And that is.
Not at all what you need to befocusing on.
You need to focus on the nextfive days.
Mm-hmm.
We really need to be focused onthe last 12 weeks.
Mm-hmm.
(12:44):
To make sure that this race onFriday actually plays out.
Correct.
And knowing the correct answerof being like, oh, well I need
to make sure that I eat a goodbreakfast.
Sounds good.
Unless you then don't bothersetting your alarm so that you
get up in time to actually eat abreakfast.
Yeah.
Like having the answer is waydifferent than actually taking
control and following throughwith the inputs.
Angie (13:05):
Yeah.
So before we jump into, youknow, the things that we can
control versus the things thatwe can't control, I think it's
important for us to firstunderstand why we crave control
and how this relates to ournervous system.
So last episode.
In episode number four of ourrecovery series, episode 4 34, I
talked about our nervous systemand why that really is the
(13:27):
hidden driver of our performanceand our recovery.
And there's a lot of differentways that we can look at our
nervous system.
And last week we talked aboutthe sympathetic nervous system
versus the parasympatheticnervous system.
So we've got our fight andflight and performance system,
and then we have our rest anddigest and repair system.
That's our parasympathetic, andso our brains.
Are wired to seekpredictability.
(13:49):
We as humans want to be able topredict what is going to happen
because that is safety.
When we have certainty that ourbrain interprets that as danger
in our primal wiring, that'sunsafe, we have to know.
What's coming next?
So when something feelsunpredictable, whether that's
our training or race, or yourchanging body in perimenopause,
(14:11):
if you're a woman over 40 andyou're experiencing some
hormonal shifts and your bodydoesn't know what's going on, we
feel stressed and our nervoussystem kicks into fight or
flight motor sympatheticactivation.
But the paradox of that is thatwhen we are trying to control
everything, that actually keepsus even more dysregulated.
It tells the nervous system thatthe world is not safe unless I
(14:35):
manage every detail.
And if you are someone that hasever suffered from anxiety, you
know what this feels likebecause that is one of the big
drivers of anxiety.
Is that, and even OCD is that.
W desire for control and wantingto control what's around you.
And when you don't have control,then the world feels very unsafe
(14:56):
and the details aren't what youwant them, and you don't really
know what to do.
Kevin (15:00):
Right.
So it's basically like the, thecomplete lack of control means
everything is unpredictable and,and we have this heightened
sense of, of nervousness to theworld around us.
But the more we try and squeezeand control everything, the more
it slips through.
There's a line from Star Warsabout that.
The more you tighten your grip,the more star systems are gonna
slide through.
There's a princess, lay a quotein there somewhere.
(15:20):
There you go.
Um, but it's that, it's when youtry to do too much, it's my
juggling analogy is when you'retrying to control too many
objects simultaneously.
All you're doing, like try toimagine juggling 12 chainsaws
simultaneously, you're justgonna freak out on this.
Like that is a very dangerousmove to do.
The more you try and do the, theless control you actually have,
(15:42):
it's, it's turning your alarmsystem.
All the way up.
It's making your learn system sounbelievably sensitive because
it says I have to controlabsolutely every single thing
around me.
So then the slightest thing thatfeels outta control doesn't set
off and be like, Hey, somethingmight be interesting over here.
It says something is superdangerous, catastrophic over
here.
So the goal here is not just togive up all control, but it's
(16:06):
more to redirect it.
It's to focus on what weactually.
Can control what we actuallyhave some amount of influence
over.
And then to actually be able tolet go of the other parts.
It's like carrying an egg.
If you hold the egg too tight,you don't have an egg anymore,
you have a scrambled egg in yourhand.
If you carry it too loose,you've dropped the egg, you have
(16:27):
a scrambled egg on the floor,you wanna just hold it.
Control what you can.
Don't control.
You can't control where the yolkis, but you can hold the shell
gently enough.
Angie (16:36):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, going back to our My
bathroom example.
This is where there are thingsthat I wanted to control and
felt like I, I wasn't able tocontrol.
And that sense of not havingcontrol paired with some of the
other things that were happeningin my life that felt like I
didn't have control over, likethe loss this very sudden and
(16:56):
traumatic loss of our dog andother things, you know, that,
that were going on, Mel made me.
Even give up control of some ofthe things I did have, which is
a very interesting thing thathappens as well, because I do, I
did have control over pickingout the tile and going to,
giving all of this informationand signing the contract and
(17:16):
paying the deposit and all thesethings.
And there's a lot of thosethings that I just pushed back
and delayed because I didn'twant to have, like, there was
just other things.
And so I think that sometimeswhen we lose control of certain
things, it can let us.
Release control of some of thethings that we actually do have
control over.
(17:37):
And so for example, to relatethis to your training, if
there's something that you feelyou don't have control of, then
there's a lot of times peoplewill just kind of throw
themselves, throw their hands upin the air.
So say you are experiencing painor you experience an injury or
something like that, and youfeel like, oh, now I don't have.
Control because now I have sixweeks or four weeks that I'm not
(17:59):
able to run.
And so then a lot of timespeople are just end up not doing
anything.
They don't focus on, oh, well, Ican still do my PT exercises, or
I can still be eating healthier.
I can still make.
Sure that I get enough proteinso that my body can repair
itself as quickly as possible.
Those are the things that weactually do have control over,
but sometimes I think that wecan go the opposite direction
(18:20):
and when it feels like certainthings have been taken away from
us, that we actually let go ofeven the things that we do have
control over,
Kevin (18:28):
it's like, uh, a control snowball.
Like, well, if I don't controlthis, then what's the point of
controlling any of it?
No.
What's the point of putting myeffort forth and try and
control?
Things that I still have controlover.
It gets a little tricky.
Same thing happens I think inlike the workouts of a week.
If, if you, for whatever reasonyou miss the workout on Monday,
there's some people whose brainchecks out and they'll be like,
(18:48):
well, I guess I'll get back intoit next Monday.
Yeah, no, you could get backinto it on Tuesday.
Like you could get into it thenext day.
Mm-hmm.
Or you oversleep and you can'tstart your run at.
Six, you overslept by 20minutes.
So if you start your run at six20, you can't get the whole run
in.
People will just say, well, it'snot worth it.
I'm going, I'm just gonna skipthat run.
You could still get some of itin.
(19:09):
It's a matter of, of acceptingthat it might not be exactly
under your control, but you canstill adjust.
You can take control of thesituation of the hand that
you're dealt, like when, ifyou're playing poker, unless
you're cheating.
You don't actually know thehands that you're getting dealt,
but you still get to play.
Like you don't have to foldevery time just because you're
(19:30):
not holding four ACEs, you stillactually get to participate in
the game.
Angie (19:33):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe things that we can control
versus the things that we can'tcontrol.
And a lot of these might bepretty self-explanatory or
pretty obvious, but we're gonnatalk about'em anyway.
And also there maybe there'ssome things in here that you
don't realize that you havecontrol over.
(19:54):
Um, and some things that maybeyou think you do have control
over that you don't actuallyhave control over, which I think
is important too.
I
Kevin (20:01):
think that's a really important one, is the ones that
you think you have control over,that you're like, oh, no, I
definitely, I control that.
And you're like, actually,actually you don't.
Angie (20:08):
Yeah.
So one of the things that you.
Always have control over.
Uh, is your effort, like youreffort level, like the effort
that you're putting in and yourmindset each day, you have
control over.
And I can say this, having gonethrough a very dark period in my
life just recently, and therewere some days because of the
(20:30):
grief that I was experiencingand the the blame that I was
placing on myself and the shameand the guilt and all the things
that I was feeling that.
I wanted to feel crappy.
Like, and I, I, I knew that, andit wasn't that I was necessarily
making that choice consciously,but I felt bad trying to.
Get out of it.
(20:51):
Does that make sense?
Yes.
You felt
Kevin (20:53):
bad trying to feel good when you were like, I feel like
I should be sad today.
I feel like I should.
Well,
Angie (20:58):
I was sad.
It's not that I felt like Ishould be sad if I was genuinely
sad.
Kevin (21:03):
Right.
But then, and
Angie (21:04):
I know that I could like try to get myself out of it.
I could think about the goodthings and I could focus on
something else.
And that felt very hard to do,and I also felt like a layer of
guilt around even trying to dothat.
Kevin (21:20):
Right.
You felt like sad was theappropriate emotion.
Mm-hmm.
And so, well, yes, you couldhave flipped yourself and tried
to have a, a more joyful, a morehappier emotion that day.
It felt like that was theappropriate thing to have.
Yeah.
So it, it was in your control,but it was also accepting the
emotions that you had on thatday.
But you'd also talk about youreffort level when you're feeling
really down on a certain day.
(21:41):
You know, we, we give runnersdifferent effort levels to run
it.
There should be L two, L five,whatever it is.
If you're exhausted emotionally,you're just really sad on a
given day, L five is not goingto be the same pace as it is on
a day that you're feeling great.
Yeah.
But it's still, you can controlhow much effort you're, you're
putting forth on that.
Like it really is mentally isgoing to change your physical
(22:04):
output.
Angie (22:04):
Yeah.
And I think that a big thing forme was really just showing up,
like my effort level was showingup.
That was me putting in effort.
That was me showing up formyself.
That was me being consistent,because that's another thing
that you, we all have controlover your training consistency
that you, whether or not youshow up on any given day, and of
(22:25):
course things can pop up andthings can get in your way, but
on a regular basis, you havecontrol over how consistent you
are with your workouts and withyour training.
And even on the days that Ididn't feel like going out and
train training, I knew that.
It was important for me for bothmy physical health and for my
mental health because I thinkthat if I would've stopped
(22:45):
running or not shown upconsistently, that would've made
what I was experiencing evenworse.
So I know that.
My training consistency wasdefinitely something that I had
control over, and I think it'sfine sometimes to make that
conscious choice of like, I'mgonna take more days off this
week than I normally wouldbecause I'm going to allow
(23:05):
myself time or space to grieveor to experience other things
that I have going on in my life.
That's totally fine as long asyou're making that choice
consciously and not justthrowing up your hand saying,
oh, well life just keeps gettingin the way.
And I know that we say, oh yes,this is real life, and life
sometimes gets in the way, butthere's always a choice
somewhere in the mix.
(23:26):
There's, there just is like ifyou have something that you are
planning on doing after work andthen something pops up with the
kids or with your spouse or withyou and you're not able to go to
the gym, you could.
In theory workout later in theevening.
If the gym is still open, youcould do other things.
There's always a choice.
(23:47):
Somewhere you could get in a 10minute workout at home.
That consists of like somesquats, some pushups, some
planks, some you know, bodyweight stuff.
Maybe it's not exactly what youhad on the plan, but you
probably could get something in.
Kevin (24:01):
Yeah, you can.
You can keep ticking off theconsistency and.
If you maintain the consistencyover time, that consistency is
gonna be closer and closer towhat the plan actually looks
like, because you're gonnarealize that you have more
control over getting a workout.
Like today, I plan on getting aworkout and then scheduling
changed, and that didn't happen.
(24:22):
I could have still made ithappen, but I chose.
To not put picking up our kidsonto somebody else.
So I, I prioritized making surethat I could do my, my dad job
and I didn't get a run.
It's gonna tweak my trainingweek, but then it just, it moves
an off day to a different day,which is not exactly what I was
going for.
It's just moves the schedulearound.
(24:44):
That's all it does.
Consistency still exists,
Angie (24:46):
but you made that choice.
Kevin (24:47):
Yes.
I actively chose and I brieflywas annoyed about having to
shift because it's not theschedule of the week that I
wanted.
And then I was like, no, if Ireally wanted to work out today,
I would just work out today.
Right now I would text a fewpeople and this is what would
happen and I could get myworkout in right now.
But it didn't.
I chose not to and once I, Iconsciously chose, I wasn't
(25:08):
annoyed with it anymore like Iwas.
Briefly annoyed.
I realized that I could stillwork out and I chose no, I can
just move that to a differentday.
Angie (25:17):
Yeah.
And so then that also reflectsyour attitude there, like that
you have a choice over likerecognizing your choice and your
control over the situation.
Went like was helpful to takeyou from being annoyed to being
okay with this situation?
Kevin (25:32):
Yeah, completely like it.
It went to neutral.
It's not like I was stoked.
I'm like, yes, I'm gonna movethis to a Wednesday, but I was
neutral to the situation.
And neutral is a great mindsetfor a lot of things.
Angie (25:42):
Absolutely.
So other things you have controlover.
You're eating, how you fuel, howyou hydrate, what you're putting
into your body.
Are you eating enough?
Are you eating the right kind offood to fuel the activities that
you're doing?
Are you getting enough protein?
Are you getting enoughcarbohydrates?
How are you thinking?
About your fueling?
How are you thinking aboutcarbs?
(26:02):
Are you thinking that carbs arebad?
Are you trying to avoid, are youstill in the restriction
mindset?
A lot of that you have controlover, whether you realize it or
not.
A lot of us don't even realizethat we're operating from those
mindsets, and so listening tothis podcast or other things
that help to bring awareness tothe those mindsets and how they
(26:23):
might be holding you back andthen allowing you to.
Make a different choice is it'sreally important, right?
So you have the choice to notrestrict your calories.
You have the choice to make surethat you are getting enough
carbohydrates to fuel your runs,whether or not you actually
choose that and and choose tobelieve that restricting is the
way that is going to help youlose weight versus.
(26:47):
I'm actually going to fuel mybody for performance and I'm
going to choose strong overskinny.
That is a choice that we allhave.
Kevin (26:54):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
You've got that choice.
And a lot of that goes back tomindset.
Like you can make the choicesabout how you feel about food,
which then leads to the actionsabout what food you are or are
not putting into your body.
You have control over yoursleep, your stress management.
You have control over schedulingyour rest days.
To an extent, like there's, aswe just said, like I just had to
(27:17):
move a rest day to today.
That was not planned, but itgoes right back to I have
control over my overall trainingconsistency and I can manage my
sleep and training consistencyin balance over the weekend.
We sit up really late on onenight, but I was still able to
sleep in a little extra the nextday and still get in the run
that I was going for.
So you balance these things andyou're able to control.
(27:42):
Several things simultaneously.
Like it's not exactly myjuggling metaphor.
I can control more than three.
I just can't control 10,000.
Like I can control severalthings simultaneously and I
balance the control of one withthe control over the other.
I balance out my trainingconsistency, my fueling my
sleep, my rest days.
They all work together becausethat's how a life training plan
(28:05):
actually works.
Angie (28:06):
Yeah.
And that's ultimately whathelped us.
Design our running reconnectedmethod because it's not just
your running that matters, it'sall of these things that go into
how you feel, how you perform,how your body's able to avoid
injury and, and be consistent.
Because all of those things makea difference.
So if you're like, oh, well Idon't have control over it, I
got injured.
Okay, well, what led to thatinjury?
(28:27):
Did you slack off on yourstrength and mobility work?
Did you not get enough sleep?
Were you not fueling your body?
Like all of those things led tothat injury.
It wasn't just how much you wererunning or the speed with which
you were running, it was all thethings that went up into that.
And that includes your thoughtsthat you choose to believe about
(28:48):
yourself, like the mindset.
Piece, and this is why that'sone of the first things that we
talk about inside of our runningreconnected method is your
identity, your identity as arunner, as an athlete.
The thi the things that youchoose to believe about
yourself, about what you'recapable of, about what is going
to make you a better runner.
Do you think that more trainingis going to always make you a
(29:10):
better runner?
Do you think that restrictingcalories is going to help you
lose weight?
All of these things play a hugerole in.
How you're able to perform andyou do have control over that.
It's not easy.
Right.
And I think that it, it's, it'swhen we talk about it like, oh
yeah, you've got control overthis stuff.
That doesn't mean it's easy tocontrol those things because if
you are have a thought patternthat you've been believing,
(29:33):
whether it's about yourself orrunning or weight loss, and
you've been believing that fordecades, that is not going to
be.
An easy thing to just stopbelieving and rewrite.
I mean, for some people it is.
Some people can just once, onceyou bring the awareness to it,
there's a, there's some peopleout there that can say, oh,
okay, cool.
I'm not gonna believe thatanymore.
I'm gonna go believe this thingover here and stop, start
(29:55):
operating from this beliefsystem.
'cause that's essentially whatyou wanna do is start operating
from a new belief system that'sgoing to lead you to the things
that you want.
However, when we have.
A way that our brain isprogrammed and we have that very
well worn path in the woods.
That's where our brain wants tokeep going.
So it's oftentimes, for mostpeople, I would say, requires a
(30:19):
lot of redirection at thebeginning.
You have to bring the awarenessto the thought pattern that you
want to change.
You want to.
Figure out what you want tochange it to.
And then you have to recognizethat your brain's gonna wanna
keep going the old way andyou're gonna have to bring it
back.
And then it's gonna try go goingall again, and you're gonna
bring it back.
And the intensity and thefrequency of the thoughts are
(30:42):
going to decrease with time asyou practice the new belief
system.
But it's still going to happen.
It's not like it's going to bejust snap and everything has
changed, or you know, wiggleyour nose like Mary Poppins used
to do.
And the whole room is clean.
I, I always, I'm sorry, I don'tknow why, where that analogy
came from, but I've alwayswanted to have that power.
Kevin (31:00):
You went with wiggle your nose.
Oh, no.
Wiggle Your nose is bewitched.
I immediately went to Bewitched.
Oh yeah.
Angie (31:04):
No, uh, Mary Poppins is the blink, right?
Yeah.
She's, she blinked.
She would
Kevin (31:08):
blink.
Angie (31:09):
Yeah, I'll do that one too.
Wiggle your noses.
Bewitched.
But either way, I, I stillalways wanted those powers of
like when the clothes juststarted putting themselves away
in that Mary Poppins scenes.
Fantastic.
Right.
And that also leads us to thebig thing, which is.
The grace and the patience thatyou give yourself.
When your brain wants to keepgoing over to those old thought
(31:30):
patterns, are you beatingyourself up for it?
Are you telling yourself like,oh gosh, darn, and Angie, like,
why are you thinking that again?
Or are you saying, okay, Iunderstand why you're going over
there, like.
Let's just come back over here.
It's that redirection.
It's the grace.
It's giving yourself patience.
You know, one of the big thingsthat we also recently
experienced after the loss ofour dog is that we got a new dog
(31:51):
and we got a rescue.
And he is two years old and he'samazing and.
At the same time, there's somethings he doesn't know because
he's never been trained before.
And so it requires a lot ofgrace and a lot of patience and
a lot of redirection, and he'sgetting the hang of it because
getting mad at him isn't goingto do anything.
But if I'm patient with him andall of us as a family are
(32:13):
patient with him, he's learning.
But it might maybe take a littlebit longer because he is an
older dog.
There's some things I think he'spicking up on even quicker than
the puppy did too.
Kevin (32:23):
Yes.
We are all experiencing grace.
Yes.
And patience with the new dog,who I suggest is somewhat
similar to the size of likeClifford, the big red dog.
Angie (32:34):
He is not, he's just much bigger than our last dog.
Kevin (32:36):
He's three times the size of our last dog, and then he's
actually being serious
Angie (32:40):
about that.
He is,
Kevin (32:41):
he, he's like three and a half times the size of our last
dog.
Yeah.
Angie (32:43):
Our last dog was 13 pounds and he is 45.
Kevin (32:46):
So that's, that's much bigger.
Mm-hmm.
And it's possible that one of ushere, um, was fine with a, a, a
somewhat larger dog, and theother one said, oh yeah, like a
25 pound and then came home witha 45 pound dog.
It's possible that's whathappened and that we're all
having grace and some patience.
With the new dog, and we'retaking a moment to respond and
(33:09):
not just immediately react tothe situation around us.
Angie (33:12):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And, and just to be clear, that45 pound dog was cleared by you.
It wasn't like I just showed upwith a 45 pound dog.
Kevin (33:22):
That is entirely true.
You did show me several picturesof dogs that were like 20 to 25
pounds, and then you visited a45 pound dog, and you showed me,
and I FaceTimed you.
I saw how big it was.
And I, I also, he, I als Yes, Isaw how big he was.
Um, it is, he's like a smallhorse.
Um, I saw how big he was.
I saw Maddie standing and hi,like looking up to him.
(33:45):
Um, but.
But I also immediately saw howmuch the two of you visiting and
meeting the dog loved the dog,and, and now he's part of our
family.
So there you go.
Angie (33:55):
And that's the things that we controlled, right?
Kevin (33:58):
Yes.
I can control my response.
And, and, and now we've got adog.
Now we, and now we've got a dog.
That's great.
Angie (34:03):
And he's awesome.
So there's.
A lot of things though that wecan't control as runners, right?
Things like the weather,humidity, wind, wind
Kevin (34:11):
is the worst.
If I could control any of thosethings, it would be wind.
Wind is the worst of all runningconditions.
No one can can differ from this.
That is just a fact.
I've run in all the, I've run inthe hottest of hot, I've run in
snow.
Sleet.
I've run in freezing.
Rain, wind.
Wind is the worst thing you canrun in.
Angie (34:33):
Perfect.
Uh, I mean if anyone wants to bto debate Kevin, I'm here.
Let us know, um, race courseconditions.
The organization, the raceorganization, right.
Like there's a, a marathon nearus that a couple of years ago
ran out of water and it was over80 degrees in South Florida.
Granted it was in December,which is kind of crazy.
(34:54):
But they ran out of water.
Who does that?
And they also ran out of racemedals.
And that's so frustrating.
Like, but you as a runner can'tcontrol whether or not there's a
race medal waiting for you.
As you cross the finish line,that is something outside of
your control.
But unfortunately it made a lotof runners very mad, which I
think was very well justified.
(35:14):
Um, you can't control otherrunner's performances or pacing,
and that's one of the things wetalked about with our cross
country team.
Like you can control how mucheffort.
You're putting in, but you don'thave any control over your
teammates, but at the same time,you can influence your
teammates.
I think that that's a reallyimportant thing too, is to
recognize that even though wedon't have control, we can still
be influenced or have influenceover some of these things.
Kevin (35:37):
Yes, we definitely have influence.
That's why running as a team,running with others is always
super helpful in this.
But when you said other runner'sperformance or pacing.
I always thought about it as whoyou're competing against, right?
When we showed up at districtslast week, I was like, oh, we'll
probably finish around here.
And we did not.
We finished a little bit lowerbecause other teams showed up
and performed way faster than Ihad expected.
(36:01):
Mm-hmm.
But I had no control over that.
I don't know what their traininglooked like going into previous
races versus their traininggoing to districts.
How much did they taper down forthis?
Did they taper down for any oftheir races early in the season?
I have no idea on any of that,so I have absolutely no control
on any of that.
I can do the best I can.
Like we all, all on the coachingstaff, do the best that we can
(36:22):
to get the, our own team as fastas they can possibly be.
We can try and get the, thegirls on the team to help
influence each other duringpractice, during the race to
keep going faster.
But I can't control what anybodyin a different jersey is
actually doing.
I actually, once they fire thegun, have basically no control
on what happens with our teameither, but.
(36:42):
You've got a little bit of howmuch you can run, how much
effort you can put into therace, how much that person next
to you, how fast they're going,how good they feel that is
outside of your control, whichso many people show up and
they're like, oh, well I've,I've raced against that person
before, so I should be able tostay with that person.
Maybe that person is having theday of their life that suddenly
can't bring you down and belike, man, I am really looking
(37:04):
terrible today.
Maybe they just look amazingthat day.
Like, that's tricky to, to tryand compare yourself to somebody
else's performance.
Angie (37:12):
Yeah.
Another thing that.
I think is a little bit of agray area of things that you
can't control are what's goingon in your body, like hormone
fluctuations and energy dips andthose kinds of things that a lot
of women are experiencing inperimenopause and menopause.
Even in if teenagers, you know,like if you are someone that's
listening to this.
(37:32):
Um, I know that some of ourcross country girls have
recently found out that we havea podcast, and so they're
listening.
So, shout out to you girls ifyou're actually listening to
this.
So if you're a teenager, thisalso applies to you, or if you
have a teenager, um, that.
Maybe you're a mom and you'vegot a teenage daughter, um, or a
son, and this applies also likethere are some hormonal
(37:53):
fluctuations that happen that wedon't have full control over.
But again, going back to controlversus influence, I think that
we can control or we caninfluence some of the severity
of those hormone fluctuationsbased on the things that we do
have control over.
Like we already talked about,like the sleep and the fuel and
(38:14):
the.
Hydration and the recovery andall of that.
Because if you are su, superstressed out, right?
Stress management was anotherbig one.
If you're super stressed andyou're not getting enough sleep
and you're not fueling yourbody, that is increasing your
hormonal dysregulation becauseyour body always wants to be in
a state of balance and whenyou're not.
(38:37):
Taking care of your body withthe things that you do have
control over that makes thehormone situation even worse.
So there's gonna be some thingsthat you don't have control
over, like losing estrogen.
Like if you're over the age of40, you're losing estrogen.
And unless you go on hormonereplacement therapy to actually
give your, your body.
Supplemental estrogen.
(38:58):
That's not actually somethingthat you can control.
Your body's just going to loseestrogen.
This is a natural part of agingand perimenopause and menopause,
but you do have control overstress and sleep and eating and
all of those things that cancontrol or that can influence
how you experience the shift inperimenopause and menopause.
Kevin (39:20):
Yeah, some other things you don't have control over.
Illness and unexpected injuries.
I'd say that's actually kind ofconnected to what you were just
talking about.
Hormonal influences you, youhave some influence over
illness.
If you take care of your body,you are less likely to
experience illness.
If you go through your strengthand your mobility and stuff, you
are less likely to get injured.
(39:41):
If you have a solid runningplane, you're less likely to get
injured where you're not makinggiant jumps in mileage and stuff
like that.
You could still just land funnyon a curb and sprain your ankle.
Mm-hmm.
Like that is, that's an injurythat could just pop up.
Life events come up that couldbe completely outside of your
control.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this is a good one.
The exact pace your body canhold on a given day.
Angie (40:02):
Yeah.
And I think that there's a lotof people that think they can
control that.
I know that our cross countrykids, when we talk about this
and we talk about, okay, wellwhat can you control?
And they're like, pacing or likemy pace and I'm like.
But no, actually no.
Like your pacing strategy, maybeyou have control over, but the
exact pace that your body isable to run on that given day,
(40:23):
you don't have 100% control of.
Kevin (40:26):
No, and especially in like racing a 5K if you're
racing other people in the race.
Even your training, your yourracing plan.
Oh, I'm gonna go out in this formy opening mile and then I'm
gonna come back in this for mysecond mile if you didn't guess
correctly on how fast everybodyelse is gonna go.
We've got girls on the team thatare like, oh, I'm gonna go out
in like seven minutes and thenI'm gonna come back in like a
(40:48):
seven 15.
Nope, the race is gonnadisappear.
And so they were like, well, Ican't go out in seven.
I have to go out in 6 45,otherwise I'm too far back.
And they made the choice rightthen.
This is what I'm doing today.
Today.
I have to go out in 6 45.
You don't have control of theexact pace.
If you're not feeling great andyou're like, this is my level
five, I always hit this pace onlevel five.
If you're tired, if you're notfueled, you are not going to hit
(41:11):
the same pace on that day foryour level five workout.
Like you don't have control onthe exact pace on any given day.
It just, no.
Angie (41:18):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, to make it even bigger
and zoom out even further, thatis really, you know, we don't
have control over the timing ofprogress or results.
Like some people make fasterprogress than others, and that
can be a very.
Wonderful thing.
If you're someone that's makingfast progress and it can also be
somebody, something that's veryfrustrating.
(41:40):
I know that it's funny and alsoextremely annoying and
frustrating sometimes when yousee, um, women that like, or if
you are a woman that, you know,there's a lot of people I've
talked to that said, oh yeah,like my husband and I decided we
are gonna.
Start working out and watchingwhat we eat, and they do like
the side by side comparison.
(42:00):
And the husband's lost like 30pounds and the, the wife has
lost like five.
Right?
Even though she's doing more andeating better and eating less
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right?
So, um.
It that, but you can't have, youdon't have control over that.
Like the male hormones is, are,are different than female
hormones.
Like our bodies we're cheating.
Our, our bodies just do notoperate the same way.
(42:21):
Exactly.
Right.
Like they're, so you can'tcontrol how quickly you make
progress.
And I think that's where a lotof runners get frustrated.
'cause if they're not seeing theprogress that they want in the
time that they expect, a lot ofpeople wanna give up.
A lot of people wanna startchanging things instead of just
sticking to the plan.
And just acknowledging, okay,well I still am making progress.
(42:42):
It's just not at the speed thatI want.
Kevin (42:44):
Yes, that's, that's very good.
I think to summarize, trying tocontrol what is actually
uncontrollable simply drainsyour energy to focus on what is.
In your control.
You focus on the wrong things,you can't do anything about it
anyway.
And suddenly you don't have theenergy, you don't have the oomph
to control what you actuallycan.
Angie (43:03):
Yeah, and that goes back to my bathroom story, right?
Like when I was thinking aboutall the things that I didn't
have control over, that drainedmy energy for the things that I
actually did have control over,and then I released the control
that I actually had.
And so I think that when westart looking at.
The things that we have controlover and the things that we
don't have control over.
(43:24):
What do we do with this?
Right?
This is a paradox and paradoxesin life exist all over the
place.
Maybe that'll be my next series.
Maybe I'll do a series onparadox.
That sounds like fun.
Kevin (43:34):
Sure, sure.
Angie (43:36):
That was a deep breath.
But anywho, so what do we do?
You know, we can recognize thatthere is a, this duality that we
have.
And that there's things that wecan control and can't control,
and we have to learn how to holdspace for both.
We have to control the things wecan control and then surrender
(43:57):
and release the things that wedon't have control over because
it's not about giving up.
And I think that a lot of peoplethink, well, if I don't try, if
I don't hold on tightly, I'm,I'm giving up.
And it's not about that.
It's about releasing yourattachment to certain things and
recognizing that.
Structure gives us direction,but surrender gives us peace.
(44:18):
Like we can have both structureand control and also release and
surrender because that's how westay grounded.
That's how we don't just driveourselves sane and start
spiraling, and that's wheresomething called structured
flexibility comes in.
Like we.
Need to plan intentionallybecause that's the way we make
(44:41):
progress.
If you don't plan, you're notgoing to make the progress that
you want right there.
What's the, what's the phrase?
You either fail if you plan tofail.
If you fail to plan, you plan tofail.
Yes.
Right.
Is that it?
Kevin (44:53):
Yes, that is.
That is it.
I was sorry I was laughing'causethat was my dinner tonight.
You said, well, what was, whatwas the goal for dinner?
I said, dinner didn't turn outthe way that I wanted it to.
Yeah.
And you said, well, what wasyour goal?
And I go, I'm not sure.
Mm-hmm.
They're like, well, hard toreach your goal when you're not
sure what the goal was.
Yeah.
I'm like, I don't know.
It tastes good.
Angie (45:10):
Yeah.
So I didn't really know why yousaid it went wrong, but you
know, I'm like, I mean, it stilltastes good.
And you're like, and that wasultimately the goal.
And I'm like, okay, great.
But he wanted the skin on thechicken to be crispier and that
didn't really work out, but.
So anywho, we need to make anintentional plan and I think
it's really important for us toall have a plan.
(45:31):
You guys know we've talked aboutthat plenty of times and not,
but, but, and'cause it is both.
It's always both.
We need to plan intentionallyand also adapt.
Be flexible when things don't goto plan.
That is really the key.
And can you hold space for bothof those things?
(45:51):
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
And part of that is learning tolisten to your body, right?
Because there are things that.
We have planned out.
But then if we're being reallyhonest and, and listening to our
body and trying to, or allowingourself the space to adapt,
there are things that maybe weshouldn't be doing that day.
Like, like Kevin was saying, youknow, if you're really tired and
(46:13):
you have a speed workout thatday.
Should you, should you do it?
Like, should you try to pushthrough and do that speed
workout or should you just takea, an easy day or a rest day,
even though that wasn't exactlyon the plan?
Is that going to help you bemore consistent overall, which
is ultimately the plan?
Kevin (46:31):
Right?
So then you gotta look on liketimelines because the whole idea
of.
Planning intentionally, adaptingcompassionately sounds great,
but if you always give yourselfa little bit of grace and a
little bit of compassion, just alittle bit of space, then you
never push yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And if, if you're always justlike, well, I'm not feeling it
today, so I'm not sure that I'mreally quite capable of, of
stretching, of hitting the speedwork.
(46:52):
I, I don't want to increase myweight when I'm doing my lift
session today, because I'm just,I'm not quite feeling, I wanna
give myself a little bit ofgrace.
Too much grace means you'renever going to actually evolve.
Like, that's, that's the, the.
The issue of going too far inthe other direction.
Yeah.
Like trying to controleverything and keep everything
super, super structured meansyou're ultimately just so finely
(47:13):
wired that the alarms areconstantly going off.
But if you're always givingyourself the grace, you don't
have a plan.
Yeah.
You, you have a plan.
You're like, no, no, this is myplan.
This is the plan I'm following,but I, I give myself grace
whenever I need it.
If you give yourself grace everytime you think it might be
necessary, in all likelihood,you're not following the plan
that anymore.
And that's, that's how you gotoo far.
(47:34):
And that's where the paradoxcomes in.
You have to find a good balanceof these things.
Angie (47:38):
Yeah.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up because I was thinking
about that earlier in theepisode and then just didn't
have the space, and then Iprobably forgot about it, but I
think that that's a really,really important thing to point
out because yes, it is reallyimportant for us to give like,
and I think this is where.
Knowing yourself becomes reallyimportant.
Are you someone that tends topush through and grind it out
(48:03):
and grit through?
You are someone that probablyneeds to give yourself a little
bit more grace, but are, or areyou someone that struggles with
consistency and struggles withmaking progress and.
Giving, like staying on a plan,sticking with the structure,
then you might be someone thatreally doesn't need more grace.
(48:24):
Like you can give yourself gracein saying like, okay, I, I
acknowledge that this aboutmyself, but what I actually need
is more structure.
And to not let myself off thehook all of the time because
that's going to be a better wayfor me to get progress.
And you know, most of usprobably fall somewhere in the
middle.
And that's where it becomestricky, is knowing when to.
(48:45):
Grided out and when to stick tothe plan and.
Kind of ignore what our brain istelling us and when should we
listen to what our brain istelling us and what our body's
telling us.
I think that's where it becomesconfusing for a lot of people.
Kevin (49:00):
This is where I started my last comment, and then I kind
of took it a differentdirection.
I tangent myself.
Um, but it's, it's on what yourtimeline is.
If your timeline is, I'd like torun healthily for the next 40
years, then a little bit ofgrace might actually be the
preferred method of getting tothat.
Mm-hmm.
If you have a race in threeweeks, a little bit extra grit
(49:20):
might be the best way to get tothat.
Yeah.
Like you've gotta figure outwhat is, what is the goal, and
which one is the most importantthing, because you're not gonna
make a huge amount of progressif you don't push yourself.
On a regular basis, not on adaily basis, but on a regular
basis, you have to try and pushoutside of your comfort zone.
That's how you achieve some,some more short term goals, but
(49:41):
that constant, consistent gracethat maintains overall
consistency is probably the bestway to run for the next decade
upon decade.
Angie (49:50):
Yeah, no, I would agree with that and I think that
that's, I, I feel like.
I've been giving myself a lot ofgrace over the last couple of
months, and then when Novemberhit, I was like, okay, an it's
time to get back on the horse.
Kevin (50:00):
You've given yourself grace, but you've also really
gone for it in the weight room.
I feel like you've givenyourself more grace cardio wise,
but pushed yourself on weights.
Angie (50:08):
Well, I mean,
Kevin (50:09):
that may just mean my perception.
Angie (50:11):
I mean, training wise, I feel like I've just.
In maintenance mode, like kindof where I always am, but I have
actually been increasing myweights in, in the weight room.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't been pushing myself onmy runs in order, like for a
performance, but I've beendefinitely maintaining my, my
running performance and I'vebeen very consistent with all of
it.
Even regard, you know, not even,um, like even considering all
(50:35):
the.
Crap that I've, that I've beenkind of dealing with.
I've been very consistent withmy workouts because that is part
of what helps me stay grounded.
Kevin (50:42):
Yeah.
I know.
That's what's helped me.
Yeah.
Like honestly, being able to,it's, it's why I have tally
marks on the, the board in myclassroom is I can keep putting
'em up for miles that I've putin.
Like as long as the tally markskeep increasing, I feel like
I've got some sense of control.
Mm-hmm.
Even though it's not, eventhough like clearly I don't.
Oh, nope, I didn't.
I wasn't able to run Tuesday orWednesday.
(51:04):
I'm gonna jump back on it onThursday so I can keep the tally
marks going on the board.
It gives me a feeling of controlover something that I don't have
a hundred percent control over.
Angie (51:12):
Yeah, so I would love to invite all of you, you know that
now that you're listening tothis episode, as we wrap up
here, kind of your takeaway fromthe episode is to ask yourself,
you know, and maybe even take acouple minutes to journal on
this, if you can.
Like, the first question wouldbe.
Where are you trying to controlsomething that.
(51:33):
You don't have full control overor an area of your life that
maybe you need to lean in moreto release and trust and letting
go and just kind of seeing howit flows.
And then the second questionwould be the opposite of where
do you think you could take moreownership in your life instead
of waiting for somethingexternal to change, you know
(51:55):
where.
Are there areas of your lifewhere you could take back more
of your power and more of yourcontrol versus just
relinquishing that?
And I think that it's importantfor us to always journal on
both.
You know, what am I trying tocontrol that I really should
release, and what am I.
Not controlling, what am I nottaking ownership of that I
(52:17):
really could benefit from takinga little bit back, a little bit
more there.
Kevin (52:22):
Yeah.
And those are both difficultquestions.
Mm-hmm.
Like when you start journalism,you're like, oh, I have actually
completely released control overthat and I need to step back up.
And it's, it's tricky, but it'ssomething that you should
probably come back to every fewweeks to see if you're actually
in control of the things.
That you should be in controlover.
Yeah, I know.
That's the direction that I leantowards of like, oh yeah, I
kinda let that one slip.
I should really take charge.
(52:43):
And again.
Angie (52:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, truly, you know,when we start to put all these
things toge together, that'sreally what our membership is
all about.
It's what the runningreconnected method is all about
is.
Learning how to reconnect toyour body's wisdom, to building
trust with yourself and learninghow to balance the control and
the surrender, both with thethings that we do physically
(53:06):
have control over, and also thethings that we, you know,
mentally need to work on inthese things, because that's
really where.
Freedom and performance all comefrom it.
It, it comes from understandingthat there are a lot of things
that we can control and there'sa lot of things that we don't
need to control.
We can just allow ourselves toflow and to train with intention
(53:28):
instead of this need to have a,a.
Death grip on all of the thingsthat we've got going on in our
life and feeling like we'refailing in all of these areas if
things aren't going the way wewant them to.
Kevin (53:40):
Yes, I a hundred percent.
'cause if you, if you try togrip too hard, you're just
living a life centered aroundfear.
Yeah.
Fear that something's about to,to fall, something's gonna
break.
Angie (53:50):
Yeah.
And that's a really hard way tolive.
So I would love, if you knowthis episode resonated with you,
I would love to invite you.
To come check out the Real LifeRunners team.
You can get more informationover@realliferunners.com slash
team because that's where weteach our running reconnected
method.
We have video lessons.
You get a personalized trainingplan that integrates your
running and your strengthtraining and your mobility, and
(54:12):
all of these other things thatwe're talking about, like
nervous system regulation andunderstanding nutrition and
recovery and mindset.
We have.
Coach, we have lessons that youcan watch on your own time.
And then we also have coaching,um, every single week where you
can come and figure out whereyou can improve and get, you
know, feedback, personalizedfeedback for you to help you
(54:35):
with your running and genuinelythe rest of your life.
'cause that's.
The goal of this podcast and ourentire coaching program is to
help you grow as a runner, butalso grow as a human mind, body
and spirit.
So check it out real liferunners.com/team.
If you feel like you're notquite ready for the team yet, we
have a 30 day running resetwhere you can get.
(54:57):
A really good taste of exactlywhat we're about and make a
significant change in 30 daysthe way that I have that program
set up.
Um, and I'm actually running aspecial on that right now, so
you can also check that out overon the website if you go to real
life runners.com right on thehomepage, you, you can get, get
the links for all of it.
You get the links for thepodcast, for the Running reset,
(55:17):
and then also for our groupcoaching program, the Real Life
Runners team.
So as always, guys, thanks forjoining us today.
Please share.
And review the podcast, um, andhelp us reach more runners.
And I hope to see you inside theReal Life runners team soon.
Um, as always, this has been theReal Life Runners podcast,
episode number 435.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
(55:38):
I.
Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast, episode
(00:02):
number 435.
So as runners, a lot of us,maybe even most of us, are type
A.
We're very organized, driven,data oriented, because that
control gives us a sense ofsafety and progress.
But there's a paradox in thisbecause that same desire for
control that helps us to succeedcan also create frustration and
tension and burnout.
(00:23):
Especially when things don't goto plan.
So control feels like safety,but it can also become a cage.
So join us today as we talkabout the paradox of control.
(00:56):
What's up, runners?
Welcome back to the show.
Kevin is back with us today.
Kevin (01:01):
I'm back.
I'm
Angie (01:03):
back.
Thank you all, um, so much forall of you that.
Reached out about the recoveryseries that we just finished.
We did four episodes, all aboutthe Science of Recovery, and
Kevin did episode one with me,and then I basically did three
on my own because the.
Life lately has been quitecrazy.
(01:23):
And that's kind of what inspiredthis episode as well, in fact.
Um, but Kevin's back and I'mglad to have him here with us
today.
So today we're talking about theparadox of control and I was
kind of thinking about, youknow, now that the.
Series on recovery has ended.
What are we gonna talk aboutnow?
I, and I really enjoyed thisseries theme and I think I'm
(01:44):
gonna be definitely doing moreseries in the future.
What did you think about those,Kev?
I mean,
Kevin (01:49):
I liked the series.
I listened to the series.
I was like, oh, I would'vecommented this at that point.
Like I was, it was funny becauselike on other podcasts that I
listen to, I'm like, oh, this isa great podcast listening to you
on the.
On an episode that you're goingsolo.
I'm like, and that's where Iwould've made that funny joke.
Like, that's like, and, and thenI would've interjected with this
comment.
And like, it's, it's funny tolisten to, yeah.
(02:11):
How I would've tried tocontribute to it, but I thought
they were just so, so veryinformative, so useful, and like
practical advice in a lot ofthem.
Angie (02:19):
Well, thank you my love.
So.
Now that that series is wrappedup, and if you missed any of
those, go back and check out thelast four episodes, especially
if you want to improve yourperformance and really just feel
better in your running becauserecovery is really the hidden
secret.
It's not just about what you doin your training and your
workouts, it's about how you'rerecovering and how you're
maximizing your progress andyour adaptation through
(02:42):
recovery.
But when I was talk, thinkingabout today's episode, um.
Things have kind of been nuttyaround here lately, and I feel
like I have not really is
Kevin (02:52):
an interesting word choice.
Angie (02:53):
The last few months, I would say lately is, you know,
things have been kind of weirdand I haven't really been
myself, and there's a lot ofreasons for that.
But one of the big reasons thatkind of all this is happening is
our bathroom renovation.
So those of you that havefollowed here on the podcast, I
think we've talked about it alittle bit on social media.
(03:14):
I've talked about it a littlebit, but.
I was thinking about thebathroom renovation.
So long story short, we foundmold in our girl's bathroom.
So this was on July 1st, waswhen the mold remediation
company actually came out andsaid, uh, this doesn't look
good.
We're gonna have to cut into thewall.
And, and so they startedbasically the bathroom
(03:36):
demolition on July 8th.
So really that first week ofJuly.
And my girls have not had abathroom since then and they
have had a partial bathroom formaybe a month or two.
'cause they're long, like we hadto, uh, file claims with the
insurance and then we had tofile two claims.
And so they repaired part of thebathroom, but not the whole
(03:59):
thing and the shower.
Is almost done.
We are almost to a fullyfunctioning bathroom.
So the majority of thereconstruction is done.
We're just kind of waiting onsome, some plumbing and some
details.
At this point.
Kevin (04:13):
We might actually have a usable bathroom by the time
you're listening to this, whichis super on Thursday, which is
exciting for everybody.
On
Angie (04:19):
Thursday when we release this, everything should be
completed.
So, um, we're crossing ourfingers, but I feel like this is
just an example of control andreally lack of control, and I am
the kind of person.
That likes control, as I thinkprobably a lot of our listeners
are.
I think as runners, that'sreally a big part of who we are.
We like, you know, we're type A,we like to control things.
(04:43):
Running seems like a verycontrollable thing in theory,
which if you've been running forany given length of time, you
know that's not always the case.
And you know that progress isnot linear.
We've mentioned that many timeson the podcast, but I feel like
this bathroom renovation wasreally.
Just continuous examples andcontinuous proof to me that
(05:04):
there are a lot of things that Ican control, and there's also a
lot of things that are out of mycontrol that I need to let go of
because trying to hold onto itand trying and just getting
frustrated or getting stressedout about the situation really
isn't doing much.
And there is a lot of thingsthat were outside of my control
I couldn't control.
The speed with which the claimwas approved and the insurance
(05:29):
and the contractors andeverything on that end.
But I also acknowledge thatthere were a lot of things that
were in my control that I alsodelayed, that I, I didn't make
the decisions that I needed tomake quickly enough, like
picking out the tile or orderingthe fixtures, um, because I
didn't wanna mess it up.
You know, I, I wanted thisbathroom to look beautiful and.
(05:52):
I wanted it to be quote unquoteworth.
Worth it, right?
Like worth all of the hasslethat we were going through.
And although I have a wonderfulhusband and wonderful children,
a lot of these decisions reallyfell on my shoulders.
Kevin (06:07):
No, pretty much all of the decisions fell on your
shoulders.
Um, and a lot of the supervissupervision of the construction
itself,'cause you work fromhere.
So then you work.
Trapped in the house on thesedays where like construction was
actually taking place or youwere trapped even when
construction wasn't takingplace.
'cause it's like, oh, they'regoing to show up at some point
(06:27):
in time today.
Angie (06:28):
Or they would, they were supposed to show up at eight 30
and they ended up showing up at1130.
Kevin (06:32):
Right.
But that you're still trappedfrom eight 30 to 1130 because
you, I don't know when they'regonna show up.
Right.
They're gonna show up at seven.
Well, they're supposed to behere at 1130, so it's nine.
I probably shouldn't leave.
They could be here any minute ortwo and a half hours from now.
Right.
Isn't it?
Basically all of it dropped onyou, and it was a matter of
like.
You trying to figure out what itwas that you were capable of
(06:52):
still doing inside of some ofthese sort of locked in
parameters.
Angie (06:55):
Yeah.
And then on top of that, we lostour dog in a very tragic
accident, um, on September 1stand that, so I was just
emotionally wrecked basicallyfor the month of September.
Um, I'd really never experiencedgrief like that, so it was like
I was in probably one of theworst mental states that I've.
Uh, possibly ever experiencedand having to make all of these
(07:19):
decisions on my own and dealwith all of the baloney and all
of this, and there was a lotthat I just decided to shut down
and I didn't want to make thedecisions.
And I think that.
You know, a lot of times we, alot of us can experience that.
You know, a lot of us thinkthat, oh, if I just control all
(07:40):
of these things, if I just planhard enough, if I train smart
enough, if I control everyvariable, we're gonna GU
guarantee success.
But life and running don't workthat way.
And when I thought, oh, youknow, would this whole mold
thing happen?
I was like, oh, we'll have thisdone in just like a couple of
weeks.
And that's when they say that weas humans, plan.
(08:00):
And then God laughs.
Right.
Kevin (08:02):
Well, because one of the things you say is if, if we're
able to just control everyvariable, and when you take this
from a bathroom renovation wherethere's a lot of variables that,
that we can't even think of, andyou move it into, say, running,
we're, we're, we're moving theconversation into, there are so
many variables inside of runningthat we don't even think of that
we're like, oh, if I just getthe training plan, that will
(08:24):
increase my endurance, but itwill also work on my speed and I
can handle the strength.
But our body doesn't just like.
Increase endurance.
There's so many different layersinvolved in increasing
endurance.
There is, when you go in and doa strength routine, there are
different levels of strengththat are increasing.
Are you increasing explosivepower?
Are you building size?
Like, what is it that you'reactually increasing along the
(08:44):
way?
So to say, oh, well I'll just,I'll control all the variables,
is to be like, oh, well, I'lljust balance these 10,000 things
simultaneously.
Yeah.
You know, I, I can juggle, I canjuggle three objects in the air
simultaneously.
But I can't do a fourth one.
And as soon as you try and throwa fourth one at me, I drop the
first three.
So if, if you're like, oh, wellI just control all the variables
(09:06):
inside of my running, you'remore likely to end up dropping
all of the variables inside ofyour running.
The more control you try and putover it.
And I think that's where we,you've got this whole idea of
the, the com, uh, the paradox ofcontrol.
The more you try to control, thetougher it is to actually
control the things.
Angie (09:24):
Right.
And I think that.
We don't necessarily even thinkabout it as controlling the
variables.
I think of that we oftentimeswant to control the outcomes,
which we genuinely have prettymuch no control over in if we're
really getting down to it.
There's a lot of things that wecan't control.
We can, we can influence theoutcomes through our actions,
(09:44):
through our attitude, throughour recovery, through our
adaptability, but we can'tactually control the outcome of
the race.
You don't, you never know.
There's so many.
Variables outside of yourcontrol that influence how you
perform on any given day.
And this is one of the thingswe've been talking about with
our cross country team as well,because our girls cross country
(10:05):
team has advanced from districtsto the regional competition.
And so we run in regionals onFri this Friday, November, what
day is that?
14th?
Yep.
So if you're listening to thison Thursday or Friday, please
keep us in your prayers and inmind.
Um, we're Friday, early Fridaymorning at 8:00 AM.
Our girls run in the regionalmeet and if they, if we are in
(10:27):
the top eight teams at theregional meet, we go on to the
state championship.
And so that's obviously been ourgoal all season long, is to make
it back to states.
And so all season long we'vebeen talking to both girls and
boys teams about the things thatwe have control over versus the
things that we don't havecontrol over.
And this week we are.
In all of our practices, we'regoing over okay, going to the
(10:50):
state meet, running well at theregional meet doesn't just.
Depend on Friday.
It depends on what we're doingall week long, not just at
practice, but also how you'retaking care of yourself all week
long.
And then I ask them, okay, whatdoes that mean?
What do you need to be doing?
And they obviously know thequote unquote right answers at
this point.
(11:11):
They're like, we need to besleeping well and eating well
and eating enough and this andthat.
I'm like, okay, but what doesthat actually mean?
What time are you gonna go tobed?
Because that's the stuff youhave control over.
And so one of the girls said,between nine and 10, I said,
okay.
Is that feasible?
Is that a a, a reasonable thingfor you this week?
'cause you know, kind of whattests you have going, you know,
(11:31):
what your homework load is goingto be at this point in time.
Is it reasonable for you to goto bed between nine and 10 if
you get your homework done andjust maybe aren't on social
media as much?
Right?
Like, these are the things thatwe, we talk about them with them
because those are the thingsthat we do have control over.
And that's what's reallyimportant is to.
When we talk about the paradoxof control, the first part of it
(11:55):
is recognizing what we do havecontrol over and what we don't
have control over.
Kevin (12:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, so much of that isthe, the kids, especially at
this point in the season, theyknow the right answer and they
can give you the right answer.
But then are they actuallytaking control of that?
And I think that a lot of that,a lot of us do that ourselves
is, oh, well, I.
I can control this.
This is what I'm supposed to dothis, this is my plan.
But then we let that slip awayand we focus back on outcome.
(12:24):
Mm-hmm.
Instead of focus on the thingsthat could possibly influence
like, oh, and it's to go withthe race example on this Friday.
It's just thinking about what doI have to do for those 20 to 25
minutes?
Right.
And that is.
Not at all what you need to befocusing on.
You need to focus on the nextfive days.
Mm-hmm.
We really need to be focused onthe last 12 weeks.
Mm-hmm.
(12:44):
To make sure that this race onFriday actually plays out.
Correct.
And knowing the correct answerof being like, oh, well I need
to make sure that I eat a goodbreakfast.
Sounds good.
Unless you then don't bothersetting your alarm so that you
get up in time to actually eat abreakfast.
Yeah.
Like having the answer is waydifferent than actually taking
control and following throughwith the inputs.
Angie (13:05):
Yeah.
So before we jump into, youknow, the things that we can
control versus the things thatwe can't control, I think it's
important for us to firstunderstand why we crave control
and how this relates to ournervous system.
So last episode.
In episode number four of ourrecovery series, episode 4 34, I
talked about our nervous systemand why that really is the
(13:27):
hidden driver of our performanceand our recovery.
And there's a lot of differentways that we can look at our
nervous system.
And last week we talked aboutthe sympathetic nervous system
versus the parasympatheticnervous system.
So we've got our fight andflight and performance system,
and then we have our rest anddigest and repair system.
That's our parasympathetic, andso our brains.
Are wired to seekpredictability.
(13:49):
We as humans want to be able topredict what is going to happen
because that is safety.
When we have certainty that ourbrain interprets that as danger
in our primal wiring, that'sunsafe, we have to know.
What's coming next?
So when something feelsunpredictable, whether that's
our training or race, or yourchanging body in perimenopause,
(14:11):
if you're a woman over 40 andyou're experiencing some
hormonal shifts and your bodydoesn't know what's going on, we
feel stressed and our nervoussystem kicks into fight or
flight motor sympatheticactivation.
But the paradox of that is thatwhen we are trying to control
everything, that actually keepsus even more dysregulated.
It tells the nervous system thatthe world is not safe unless I
(14:35):
manage every detail.
And if you are someone that hasever suffered from anxiety, you
know what this feels likebecause that is one of the big
drivers of anxiety.
Is that, and even OCD is that.
W desire for control and wantingto control what's around you.
And when you don't have control,then the world feels very unsafe
(14:56):
and the details aren't what youwant them, and you don't really
know what to do.
Kevin (15:00):
Right.
So it's basically like the, thecomplete lack of control means
everything is unpredictable and,and we have this heightened
sense of, of nervousness to theworld around us.
But the more we try and squeezeand control everything, the more
it slips through.
There's a line from Star Warsabout that.
The more you tighten your grip,the more star systems are gonna
slide through.
There's a princess, lay a quotein there somewhere.
(15:20):
There you go.
Um, but it's that, it's when youtry to do too much, it's my
juggling analogy is when you'retrying to control too many
objects simultaneously.
All you're doing, like try toimagine juggling 12 chainsaws
simultaneously, you're justgonna freak out on this.
Like that is a very dangerousmove to do.
The more you try and do the, theless control you actually have,
(15:42):
it's, it's turning your alarmsystem.
All the way up.
It's making your learn system sounbelievably sensitive because
it says I have to controlabsolutely every single thing
around me.
So then the slightest thing thatfeels outta control doesn't set
off and be like, Hey, somethingmight be interesting over here.
It says something is superdangerous, catastrophic over
here.
So the goal here is not just togive up all control, but it's
(16:06):
more to redirect it.
It's to focus on what weactually.
Can control what we actuallyhave some amount of influence
over.
And then to actually be able tolet go of the other parts.
It's like carrying an egg.
If you hold the egg too tight,you don't have an egg anymore,
you have a scrambled egg in yourhand.
If you carry it too loose,you've dropped the egg, you have
(16:27):
a scrambled egg on the floor,you wanna just hold it.
Control what you can.
Don't control.
You can't control where the yolkis, but you can hold the shell
gently enough.
Angie (16:36):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, going back to our My
bathroom example.
This is where there are thingsthat I wanted to control and
felt like I, I wasn't able tocontrol.
And that sense of not havingcontrol paired with some of the
other things that were happeningin my life that felt like I
didn't have control over, likethe loss this very sudden and
(16:56):
traumatic loss of our dog andother things, you know, that,
that were going on, Mel made me.
Even give up control of some ofthe things I did have, which is
a very interesting thing thathappens as well, because I do, I
did have control over pickingout the tile and going to,
giving all of this informationand signing the contract and
(17:16):
paying the deposit and all thesethings.
And there's a lot of thosethings that I just pushed back
and delayed because I didn'twant to have, like, there was
just other things.
And so I think that sometimeswhen we lose control of certain
things, it can let us.
Release control of some of thethings that we actually do have
control over.
(17:37):
And so for example, to relatethis to your training, if
there's something that you feelyou don't have control of, then
there's a lot of times peoplewill just kind of throw
themselves, throw their hands upin the air.
So say you are experiencing painor you experience an injury or
something like that, and youfeel like, oh, now I don't have.
Control because now I have sixweeks or four weeks that I'm not
(17:59):
able to run.
And so then a lot of timespeople are just end up not doing
anything.
They don't focus on, oh, well, Ican still do my PT exercises, or
I can still be eating healthier.
I can still make.
Sure that I get enough proteinso that my body can repair
itself as quickly as possible.
Those are the things that weactually do have control over,
but sometimes I think that wecan go the opposite direction
(18:20):
and when it feels like certainthings have been taken away from
us, that we actually let go ofeven the things that we do have
control over,
Kevin (18:28):
it's like, uh, a control snowball.
Like, well, if I don't controlthis, then what's the point of
controlling any of it?
No.
What's the point of putting myeffort forth and try and
control?
Things that I still have controlover.
It gets a little tricky.
Same thing happens I think inlike the workouts of a week.
If, if you, for whatever reasonyou miss the workout on Monday,
there's some people whose brainchecks out and they'll be like,
(18:48):
well, I guess I'll get back intoit next Monday.
Yeah, no, you could get backinto it on Tuesday.
Like you could get into it thenext day.
Mm-hmm.
Or you oversleep and you can'tstart your run at.
Six, you overslept by 20minutes.
So if you start your run at six20, you can't get the whole run
in.
People will just say, well, it'snot worth it.
I'm going, I'm just gonna skipthat run.
You could still get some of itin.
(19:09):
It's a matter of, of acceptingthat it might not be exactly
under your control, but you canstill adjust.
You can take control of thesituation of the hand that
you're dealt, like when, ifyou're playing poker, unless
you're cheating.
You don't actually know thehands that you're getting dealt,
but you still get to play.
Like you don't have to foldevery time just because you're
(19:30):
not holding four ACEs, you stillactually get to participate in
the game.
Angie (19:33):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe things that we can control
versus the things that we can'tcontrol.
And a lot of these might bepretty self-explanatory or
pretty obvious, but we're gonnatalk about'em anyway.
And also there maybe there'ssome things in here that you
don't realize that you havecontrol over.
(19:54):
Um, and some things that maybeyou think you do have control
over that you don't actuallyhave control over, which I think
is important too.
I
Kevin (20:01):
think that's a really important one, is the ones that
you think you have control over,that you're like, oh, no, I
definitely, I control that.
And you're like, actually,actually you don't.
Angie (20:08):
Yeah.
So one of the things that you.
Always have control over.
Uh, is your effort, like youreffort level, like the effort
that you're putting in and yourmindset each day, you have
control over.
And I can say this, having gonethrough a very dark period in my
life just recently, and therewere some days because of the
(20:30):
grief that I was experiencingand the the blame that I was
placing on myself and the shameand the guilt and all the things
that I was feeling that.
I wanted to feel crappy.
Like, and I, I, I knew that, andit wasn't that I was necessarily
making that choice consciously,but I felt bad trying to.
Get out of it.
(20:51):
Does that make sense?
Yes.
You felt
Kevin (20:53):
bad trying to feel good when you were like, I feel like
I should be sad today.
I feel like I should.
Well,
Angie (20:58):
I was sad.
It's not that I felt like Ishould be sad if I was genuinely
sad.
Kevin (21:03):
Right.
But then, and
Angie (21:04):
I know that I could like try to get myself out of it.
I could think about the goodthings and I could focus on
something else.
And that felt very hard to do,and I also felt like a layer of
guilt around even trying to dothat.
Kevin (21:20):
Right.
You felt like sad was theappropriate emotion.
Mm-hmm.
And so, well, yes, you couldhave flipped yourself and tried
to have a, a more joyful, a morehappier emotion that day.
It felt like that was theappropriate thing to have.
Yeah.
So it, it was in your control,but it was also accepting the
emotions that you had on thatday.
But you'd also talk about youreffort level when you're feeling
really down on a certain day.
(21:41):
You know, we, we give runnersdifferent effort levels to run
it.
There should be L two, L five,whatever it is.
If you're exhausted emotionally,you're just really sad on a
given day, L five is not goingto be the same pace as it is on
a day that you're feeling great.
Yeah.
But it's still, you can controlhow much effort you're, you're
putting forth on that.
Like it really is mentally isgoing to change your physical
(22:04):
output.
Angie (22:04):
Yeah.
And I think that a big thing forme was really just showing up,
like my effort level was showingup.
That was me putting in effort.
That was me showing up formyself.
That was me being consistent,because that's another thing
that you, we all have controlover your training consistency
that you, whether or not youshow up on any given day, and of
(22:25):
course things can pop up andthings can get in your way, but
on a regular basis, you havecontrol over how consistent you
are with your workouts and withyour training.
And even on the days that Ididn't feel like going out and
train training, I knew that.
It was important for me for bothmy physical health and for my
mental health because I thinkthat if I would've stopped
(22:45):
running or not shown upconsistently, that would've made
what I was experiencing evenworse.
So I know that.
My training consistency wasdefinitely something that I had
control over, and I think it'sfine sometimes to make that
conscious choice of like, I'mgonna take more days off this
week than I normally wouldbecause I'm going to allow
(23:05):
myself time or space to grieveor to experience other things
that I have going on in my life.
That's totally fine as long asyou're making that choice
consciously and not justthrowing up your hand saying,
oh, well life just keeps gettingin the way.
And I know that we say, oh yes,this is real life, and life
sometimes gets in the way, butthere's always a choice
somewhere in the mix.
(23:26):
There's, there just is like ifyou have something that you are
planning on doing after work andthen something pops up with the
kids or with your spouse or withyou and you're not able to go to
the gym, you could.
In theory workout later in theevening.
If the gym is still open, youcould do other things.
There's always a choice.
(23:47):
Somewhere you could get in a 10minute workout at home.
That consists of like somesquats, some pushups, some
planks, some you know, bodyweight stuff.
Maybe it's not exactly what youhad on the plan, but you
probably could get something in.
Kevin (24:01):
Yeah, you can.
You can keep ticking off theconsistency and.
If you maintain the consistencyover time, that consistency is
gonna be closer and closer towhat the plan actually looks
like, because you're gonnarealize that you have more
control over getting a workout.
Like today, I plan on getting aworkout and then scheduling
changed, and that didn't happen.
(24:22):
I could have still made ithappen, but I chose.
To not put picking up our kidsonto somebody else.
So I, I prioritized making surethat I could do my, my dad job
and I didn't get a run.
It's gonna tweak my trainingweek, but then it just, it moves
an off day to a different day,which is not exactly what I was
going for.
It's just moves the schedulearound.
(24:44):
That's all it does.
Consistency still exists,
Angie (24:46):
but you made that choice.
Kevin (24:47):
Yes.
I actively chose and I brieflywas annoyed about having to
shift because it's not theschedule of the week that I
wanted.
And then I was like, no, if Ireally wanted to work out today,
I would just work out today.
Right now I would text a fewpeople and this is what would
happen and I could get myworkout in right now.
But it didn't.
I chose not to and once I, Iconsciously chose, I wasn't
(25:08):
annoyed with it anymore like Iwas.
Briefly annoyed.
I realized that I could stillwork out and I chose no, I can
just move that to a differentday.
Angie (25:17):
Yeah.
And so then that also reflectsyour attitude there, like that
you have a choice over likerecognizing your choice and your
control over the situation.
Went like was helpful to takeyou from being annoyed to being
okay with this situation?
Kevin (25:32):
Yeah, completely like it.
It went to neutral.
It's not like I was stoked.
I'm like, yes, I'm gonna movethis to a Wednesday, but I was
neutral to the situation.
And neutral is a great mindsetfor a lot of things.
Angie (25:42):
Absolutely.
So other things you have controlover.
You're eating, how you fuel, howyou hydrate, what you're putting
into your body.
Are you eating enough?
Are you eating the right kind offood to fuel the activities that
you're doing?
Are you getting enough protein?
Are you getting enoughcarbohydrates?
How are you thinking?
About your fueling?
How are you thinking aboutcarbs?
(26:02):
Are you thinking that carbs arebad?
Are you trying to avoid, are youstill in the restriction
mindset?
A lot of that you have controlover, whether you realize it or
not.
A lot of us don't even realizethat we're operating from those
mindsets, and so listening tothis podcast or other things
that help to bring awareness tothe those mindsets and how they
(26:23):
might be holding you back andthen allowing you to.
Make a different choice is it'sreally important, right?
So you have the choice to notrestrict your calories.
You have the choice to make surethat you are getting enough
carbohydrates to fuel your runs,whether or not you actually
choose that and and choose tobelieve that restricting is the
way that is going to help youlose weight versus.
(26:47):
I'm actually going to fuel mybody for performance and I'm
going to choose strong overskinny.
That is a choice that we allhave.
Kevin (26:54):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
You've got that choice.
And a lot of that goes back tomindset.
Like you can make the choicesabout how you feel about food,
which then leads to the actionsabout what food you are or are
not putting into your body.
You have control over yoursleep, your stress management.
You have control over schedulingyour rest days.
To an extent, like there's, aswe just said, like I just had to
(27:17):
move a rest day to today.
That was not planned, but itgoes right back to I have
control over my overall trainingconsistency and I can manage my
sleep and training consistencyin balance over the weekend.
We sit up really late on onenight, but I was still able to
sleep in a little extra the nextday and still get in the run
that I was going for.
So you balance these things andyou're able to control.
(27:42):
Several things simultaneously.
Like it's not exactly myjuggling metaphor.
I can control more than three.
I just can't control 10,000.
Like I can control severalthings simultaneously and I
balance the control of one withthe control over the other.
I balance out my trainingconsistency, my fueling my
sleep, my rest days.
They all work together becausethat's how a life training plan
(28:05):
actually works.
Angie (28:06):
Yeah.
And that's ultimately whathelped us.
Design our running reconnectedmethod because it's not just
your running that matters, it'sall of these things that go into
how you feel, how you perform,how your body's able to avoid
injury and, and be consistent.
Because all of those things makea difference.
So if you're like, oh, well Idon't have control over it, I
got injured.
Okay, well, what led to thatinjury?
(28:27):
Did you slack off on yourstrength and mobility work?
Did you not get enough sleep?
Were you not fueling your body?
Like all of those things led tothat injury.
It wasn't just how much you wererunning or the speed with which
you were running, it was all thethings that went up into that.
And that includes your thoughtsthat you choose to believe about
(28:48):
yourself, like the mindset.
Piece, and this is why that'sone of the first things that we
talk about inside of our runningreconnected method is your
identity, your identity as arunner, as an athlete.
The thi the things that youchoose to believe about
yourself, about what you'recapable of, about what is going
to make you a better runner.
Do you think that more trainingis going to always make you a
(29:10):
better runner?
Do you think that restrictingcalories is going to help you
lose weight?
All of these things play a hugerole in.
How you're able to perform andyou do have control over that.
It's not easy.
Right.
And I think that it, it's, it'swhen we talk about it like, oh
yeah, you've got control overthis stuff.
That doesn't mean it's easy tocontrol those things because if
you are have a thought patternthat you've been believing,
(29:33):
whether it's about yourself orrunning or weight loss, and
you've been believing that fordecades, that is not going to
be.
An easy thing to just stopbelieving and rewrite.
I mean, for some people it is.
Some people can just once, onceyou bring the awareness to it,
there's a, there's some peopleout there that can say, oh,
okay, cool.
I'm not gonna believe thatanymore.
I'm gonna go believe this thingover here and stop, start
(29:55):
operating from this beliefsystem.
'cause that's essentially whatyou wanna do is start operating
from a new belief system that'sgoing to lead you to the things
that you want.
However, when we have.
A way that our brain isprogrammed and we have that very
well worn path in the woods.
That's where our brain wants tokeep going.
So it's oftentimes, for mostpeople, I would say, requires a
(30:19):
lot of redirection at thebeginning.
You have to bring the awarenessto the thought pattern that you
want to change.
You want to.
Figure out what you want tochange it to.
And then you have to recognizethat your brain's gonna wanna
keep going the old way andyou're gonna have to bring it
back.
And then it's gonna try go goingall again, and you're gonna
bring it back.
And the intensity and thefrequency of the thoughts are
(30:42):
going to decrease with time asyou practice the new belief
system.
But it's still going to happen.
It's not like it's going to bejust snap and everything has
changed, or you know, wiggleyour nose like Mary Poppins used
to do.
And the whole room is clean.
I, I always, I'm sorry, I don'tknow why, where that analogy
came from, but I've alwayswanted to have that power.
Kevin (31:00):
You went with wiggle your nose.
Oh, no.
Wiggle Your nose is bewitched.
I immediately went to Bewitched.
Oh yeah.
Angie (31:04):
No, uh, Mary Poppins is the blink, right?
Yeah.
She's, she blinked.
She would
Kevin (31:08):
blink.
Angie (31:09):
Yeah, I'll do that one too.
Wiggle your noses.
Bewitched.
But either way, I, I stillalways wanted those powers of
like when the clothes juststarted putting themselves away
in that Mary Poppins scenes.
Fantastic.
Right.
And that also leads us to thebig thing, which is.
The grace and the patience thatyou give yourself.
When your brain wants to keepgoing over to those old thought
(31:30):
patterns, are you beatingyourself up for it?
Are you telling yourself like,oh gosh, darn, and Angie, like,
why are you thinking that again?
Or are you saying, okay, Iunderstand why you're going over
there, like.
Let's just come back over here.
It's that redirection.
It's the grace.
It's giving yourself patience.
You know, one of the big thingsthat we also recently
experienced after the loss ofour dog is that we got a new dog
(31:51):
and we got a rescue.
And he is two years old and he'samazing and.
At the same time, there's somethings he doesn't know because
he's never been trained before.
And so it requires a lot ofgrace and a lot of patience and
a lot of redirection, and he'sgetting the hang of it because
getting mad at him isn't goingto do anything.
But if I'm patient with him andall of us as a family are
(32:13):
patient with him, he's learning.
But it might maybe take a littlebit longer because he is an
older dog.
There's some things I think he'spicking up on even quicker than
the puppy did too.
Kevin (32:23):
Yes.
We are all experiencing grace.
Yes.
And patience with the new dog,who I suggest is somewhat
similar to the size of likeClifford, the big red dog.
Angie (32:34):
He is not, he's just much bigger than our last dog.
Kevin (32:36):
He's three times the size of our last dog, and then he's
actually being serious
Angie (32:40):
about that.
He is,
Kevin (32:41):
he, he's like three and a half times the size of our last
dog.
Yeah.
Angie (32:43):
Our last dog was 13 pounds and he is 45.
Kevin (32:46):
So that's, that's much bigger.
Mm-hmm.
And it's possible that one of ushere, um, was fine with a, a, a
somewhat larger dog, and theother one said, oh yeah, like a
25 pound and then came home witha 45 pound dog.
It's possible that's whathappened and that we're all
having grace and some patience.
With the new dog, and we'retaking a moment to respond and
(33:09):
not just immediately react tothe situation around us.
Angie (33:12):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And, and just to be clear, that45 pound dog was cleared by you.
It wasn't like I just showed upwith a 45 pound dog.
Kevin (33:22):
That is entirely true.
You did show me several picturesof dogs that were like 20 to 25
pounds, and then you visited a45 pound dog, and you showed me,
and I FaceTimed you.
I saw how big it was.
And I, I also, he, I als Yes, Isaw how big he was.
Um, it is, he's like a smallhorse.
Um, I saw how big he was.
I saw Maddie standing and hi,like looking up to him.
(33:45):
Um, but.
But I also immediately saw howmuch the two of you visiting and
meeting the dog loved the dog,and, and now he's part of our
family.
So there you go.
Angie (33:55):
And that's the things that we controlled, right?
Kevin (33:58):
Yes.
I can control my response.
And, and, and now we've got adog.
Now we, and now we've got a dog.
That's great.
Angie (34:03):
And he's awesome.
So there's.
A lot of things though that wecan't control as runners, right?
Things like the weather,humidity, wind, wind
Kevin (34:11):
is the worst.
If I could control any of thosethings, it would be wind.
Wind is the worst of all runningconditions.
No one can can differ from this.
That is just a fact.
I've run in all the, I've run inthe hottest of hot, I've run in
snow.
Sleet.
I've run in freezing.
Rain, wind.
Wind is the worst thing you canrun in.
Angie (34:33):
Perfect.
Uh, I mean if anyone wants to bto debate Kevin, I'm here.
Let us know, um, race courseconditions.
The organization, the raceorganization, right.
Like there's a, a marathon nearus that a couple of years ago
ran out of water and it was over80 degrees in South Florida.
Granted it was in December,which is kind of crazy.
(34:54):
But they ran out of water.
Who does that?
And they also ran out of racemedals.
And that's so frustrating.
Like, but you as a runner can'tcontrol whether or not there's a
race medal waiting for you.
As you cross the finish line,that is something outside of
your control.
But unfortunately it made a lotof runners very mad, which I
think was very well justified.
(35:14):
Um, you can't control otherrunner's performances or pacing,
and that's one of the things wetalked about with our cross
country team.
Like you can control how mucheffort.
You're putting in, but you don'thave any control over your
teammates, but at the same time,you can influence your
teammates.
I think that that's a reallyimportant thing too, is to
recognize that even though wedon't have control, we can still
be influenced or have influenceover some of these things.
Kevin (35:37):
Yes, we definitely have influence.
That's why running as a team,running with others is always
super helpful in this.
But when you said other runner'sperformance or pacing.
I always thought about it as whoyou're competing against, right?
When we showed up at districtslast week, I was like, oh, we'll
probably finish around here.
And we did not.
We finished a little bit lowerbecause other teams showed up
and performed way faster than Ihad expected.
(36:01):
Mm-hmm.
But I had no control over that.
I don't know what their traininglooked like going into previous
races versus their traininggoing to districts.
How much did they taper down forthis?
Did they taper down for any oftheir races early in the season?
I have no idea on any of that,so I have absolutely no control
on any of that.
I can do the best I can.
Like we all, all on the coachingstaff, do the best that we can
(36:22):
to get the, our own team as fastas they can possibly be.
We can try and get the, thegirls on the team to help
influence each other duringpractice, during the race to
keep going faster.
But I can't control what anybodyin a different jersey is
actually doing.
I actually, once they fire thegun, have basically no control
on what happens with our teameither, but.
(36:42):
You've got a little bit of howmuch you can run, how much
effort you can put into therace, how much that person next
to you, how fast they're going,how good they feel that is
outside of your control, whichso many people show up and
they're like, oh, well I've,I've raced against that person
before, so I should be able tostay with that person.
Maybe that person is having theday of their life that suddenly
can't bring you down and belike, man, I am really looking
(37:04):
terrible today.
Maybe they just look amazingthat day.
Like, that's tricky to, to tryand compare yourself to somebody
else's performance.
Angie (37:12):
Yeah.
Another thing that.
I think is a little bit of agray area of things that you
can't control are what's goingon in your body, like hormone
fluctuations and energy dips andthose kinds of things that a lot
of women are experiencing inperimenopause and menopause.
Even in if teenagers, you know,like if you are someone that's
listening to this.
(37:32):
Um, I know that some of ourcross country girls have
recently found out that we havea podcast, and so they're
listening.
So, shout out to you girls ifyou're actually listening to
this.
So if you're a teenager, thisalso applies to you, or if you
have a teenager, um, that.
Maybe you're a mom and you'vegot a teenage daughter, um, or a
son, and this applies also likethere are some hormonal
(37:53):
fluctuations that happen that wedon't have full control over.
But again, going back to controlversus influence, I think that
we can control or we caninfluence some of the severity
of those hormone fluctuationsbased on the things that we do
have control over.
Like we already talked about,like the sleep and the fuel and
(38:14):
the.
Hydration and the recovery andall of that.
Because if you are su, superstressed out, right?
Stress management was anotherbig one.
If you're super stressed andyou're not getting enough sleep
and you're not fueling yourbody, that is increasing your
hormonal dysregulation becauseyour body always wants to be in
a state of balance and whenyou're not.
(38:37):
Taking care of your body withthe things that you do have
control over that makes thehormone situation even worse.
So there's gonna be some thingsthat you don't have control
over, like losing estrogen.
Like if you're over the age of40, you're losing estrogen.
And unless you go on hormonereplacement therapy to actually
give your, your body.
Supplemental estrogen.
(38:58):
That's not actually somethingthat you can control.
Your body's just going to loseestrogen.
This is a natural part of agingand perimenopause and menopause,
but you do have control overstress and sleep and eating and
all of those things that cancontrol or that can influence
how you experience the shift inperimenopause and menopause.
Kevin (39:20):
Yeah, some other things you don't have control over.
Illness and unexpected injuries.
I'd say that's actually kind ofconnected to what you were just
talking about.
Hormonal influences you, youhave some influence over
illness.
If you take care of your body,you are less likely to
experience illness.
If you go through your strengthand your mobility and stuff, you
are less likely to get injured.
(39:41):
If you have a solid runningplane, you're less likely to get
injured where you're not makinggiant jumps in mileage and stuff
like that.
You could still just land funnyon a curb and sprain your ankle.
Mm-hmm.
Like that is, that's an injurythat could just pop up.
Life events come up that couldbe completely outside of your
control.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this is a good one.
The exact pace your body canhold on a given day.
Angie (40:02):
Yeah.
And I think that there's a lotof people that think they can
control that.
I know that our cross countrykids, when we talk about this
and we talk about, okay, wellwhat can you control?
And they're like, pacing or likemy pace and I'm like.
But no, actually no.
Like your pacing strategy, maybeyou have control over, but the
exact pace that your body isable to run on that given day,
(40:23):
you don't have 100% control of.
Kevin (40:26):
No, and especially in like racing a 5K if you're
racing other people in the race.
Even your training, your yourracing plan.
Oh, I'm gonna go out in this formy opening mile and then I'm
gonna come back in this for mysecond mile if you didn't guess
correctly on how fast everybodyelse is gonna go.
We've got girls on the team thatare like, oh, I'm gonna go out
in like seven minutes and thenI'm gonna come back in like a
(40:48):
seven 15.
Nope, the race is gonnadisappear.
And so they were like, well, Ican't go out in seven.
I have to go out in 6 45,otherwise I'm too far back.
And they made the choice rightthen.
This is what I'm doing today.
Today.
I have to go out in 6 45.
You don't have control of theexact pace.
If you're not feeling great andyou're like, this is my level
five, I always hit this pace onlevel five.
If you're tired, if you're notfueled, you are not going to hit
(41:11):
the same pace on that day foryour level five workout.
Like you don't have control onthe exact pace on any given day.
It just, no.
Angie (41:18):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, to make it even bigger
and zoom out even further, thatis really, you know, we don't
have control over the timing ofprogress or results.
Like some people make fasterprogress than others, and that
can be a very.
Wonderful thing.
If you're someone that's makingfast progress and it can also be
somebody, something that's veryfrustrating.
(41:40):
I know that it's funny and alsoextremely annoying and
frustrating sometimes when yousee, um, women that like, or if
you are a woman that, you know,there's a lot of people I've
talked to that said, oh yeah,like my husband and I decided we
are gonna.
Start working out and watchingwhat we eat, and they do like
the side by side comparison.
(42:00):
And the husband's lost like 30pounds and the, the wife has
lost like five.
Right?
Even though she's doing more andeating better and eating less
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right?
So, um.
It that, but you can't have, youdon't have control over that.
Like the male hormones is, are,are different than female
hormones.
Like our bodies we're cheating.
Our, our bodies just do notoperate the same way.
(42:21):
Exactly.
Right.
Like they're, so you can'tcontrol how quickly you make
progress.
And I think that's where a lotof runners get frustrated.
'cause if they're not seeing theprogress that they want in the
time that they expect, a lot ofpeople wanna give up.
A lot of people wanna startchanging things instead of just
sticking to the plan.
And just acknowledging, okay,well I still am making progress.
(42:42):
It's just not at the speed thatI want.
Kevin (42:44):
Yes, that's, that's very good.
I think to summarize, trying tocontrol what is actually
uncontrollable simply drainsyour energy to focus on what is.
In your control.
You focus on the wrong things,you can't do anything about it
anyway.
And suddenly you don't have theenergy, you don't have the oomph
to control what you actuallycan.
Angie (43:03):
Yeah, and that goes back to my bathroom story, right?
Like when I was thinking aboutall the things that I didn't
have control over, that drainedmy energy for the things that I
actually did have control over,and then I released the control
that I actually had.
And so I think that when westart looking at.
The things that we have controlover and the things that we
don't have control over.
(43:24):
What do we do with this?
Right?
This is a paradox and paradoxesin life exist all over the
place.
Maybe that'll be my next series.
Maybe I'll do a series onparadox.
That sounds like fun.
Kevin (43:34):
Sure, sure.
Angie (43:36):
That was a deep breath.
But anywho, so what do we do?
You know, we can recognize thatthere is a, this duality that we
have.
And that there's things that wecan control and can't control,
and we have to learn how to holdspace for both.
We have to control the things wecan control and then surrender
(43:57):
and release the things that wedon't have control over because
it's not about giving up.
And I think that a lot of peoplethink, well, if I don't try, if
I don't hold on tightly, I'm,I'm giving up.
And it's not about that.
It's about releasing yourattachment to certain things and
recognizing that.
Structure gives us direction,but surrender gives us peace.
(44:18):
Like we can have both structureand control and also release and
surrender because that's how westay grounded.
That's how we don't just driveourselves sane and start
spiraling, and that's wheresomething called structured
flexibility comes in.
Like we.
Need to plan intentionallybecause that's the way we make
(44:41):
progress.
If you don't plan, you're notgoing to make the progress that
you want right there.
What's the, what's the phrase?
You either fail if you plan tofail.
If you fail to plan, you plan tofail.
Yes.
Right.
Is that it?
Kevin (44:53):
Yes, that is.
That is it.
I was sorry I was laughing'causethat was my dinner tonight.
You said, well, what was, whatwas the goal for dinner?
I said, dinner didn't turn outthe way that I wanted it to.
Yeah.
And you said, well, what wasyour goal?
And I go, I'm not sure.
Mm-hmm.
They're like, well, hard toreach your goal when you're not
sure what the goal was.
Yeah.
I'm like, I don't know.
It tastes good.
Angie (45:10):
Yeah.
So I didn't really know why yousaid it went wrong, but you
know, I'm like, I mean, it stilltastes good.
And you're like, and that wasultimately the goal.
And I'm like, okay, great.
But he wanted the skin on thechicken to be crispier and that
didn't really work out, but.
So anywho, we need to make anintentional plan and I think
it's really important for us toall have a plan.
(45:31):
You guys know we've talked aboutthat plenty of times and not,
but, but, and'cause it is both.
It's always both.
We need to plan intentionallyand also adapt.
Be flexible when things don't goto plan.
That is really the key.
And can you hold space for bothof those things?
(45:51):
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
And part of that is learning tolisten to your body, right?
Because there are things that.
We have planned out.
But then if we're being reallyhonest and, and listening to our
body and trying to, or allowingourself the space to adapt,
there are things that maybe weshouldn't be doing that day.
Like, like Kevin was saying, youknow, if you're really tired and
(46:13):
you have a speed workout thatday.
Should you, should you do it?
Like, should you try to pushthrough and do that speed
workout or should you just takea, an easy day or a rest day,
even though that wasn't exactlyon the plan?
Is that going to help you bemore consistent overall, which
is ultimately the plan?
Kevin (46:31):
Right?
So then you gotta look on liketimelines because the whole idea
of.
Planning intentionally, adaptingcompassionately sounds great,
but if you always give yourselfa little bit of grace and a
little bit of compassion, just alittle bit of space, then you
never push yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And if, if you're always justlike, well, I'm not feeling it
today, so I'm not sure that I'mreally quite capable of, of
stretching, of hitting the speedwork.
(46:52):
I, I don't want to increase myweight when I'm doing my lift
session today, because I'm just,I'm not quite feeling, I wanna
give myself a little bit ofgrace.
Too much grace means you'renever going to actually evolve.
Like, that's, that's the, the.
The issue of going too far inthe other direction.
Yeah.
Like trying to controleverything and keep everything
super, super structured meansyou're ultimately just so finely
(47:13):
wired that the alarms areconstantly going off.
But if you're always givingyourself the grace, you don't
have a plan.
Yeah.
You, you have a plan.
You're like, no, no, this is myplan.
This is the plan I'm following,but I, I give myself grace
whenever I need it.
If you give yourself grace everytime you think it might be
necessary, in all likelihood,you're not following the plan
that anymore.
And that's, that's how you gotoo far.
(47:34):
And that's where the paradoxcomes in.
You have to find a good balanceof these things.
Angie (47:38):
Yeah.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up because I was thinking
about that earlier in theepisode and then just didn't
have the space, and then Iprobably forgot about it, but I
think that that's a really,really important thing to point
out because yes, it is reallyimportant for us to give like,
and I think this is where.
Knowing yourself becomes reallyimportant.
Are you someone that tends topush through and grind it out
(48:03):
and grit through?
You are someone that probablyneeds to give yourself a little
bit more grace, but are, or areyou someone that struggles with
consistency and struggles withmaking progress and.
Giving, like staying on a plan,sticking with the structure,
then you might be someone thatreally doesn't need more grace.
(48:24):
Like you can give yourself gracein saying like, okay, I, I
acknowledge that this aboutmyself, but what I actually need
is more structure.
And to not let myself off thehook all of the time because
that's going to be a better wayfor me to get progress.
And you know, most of usprobably fall somewhere in the
middle.
And that's where it becomestricky, is knowing when to.
(48:45):
Grided out and when to stick tothe plan and.
Kind of ignore what our brain istelling us and when should we
listen to what our brain istelling us and what our body's
telling us.
I think that's where it becomesconfusing for a lot of people.
Kevin (49:00):
This is where I started my last comment, and then I kind
of took it a differentdirection.
I tangent myself.
Um, but it's, it's on what yourtimeline is.
If your timeline is, I'd like torun healthily for the next 40
years, then a little bit ofgrace might actually be the
preferred method of getting tothat.
Mm-hmm.
If you have a race in threeweeks, a little bit extra grit
(49:20):
might be the best way to get tothat.
Yeah.
Like you've gotta figure outwhat is, what is the goal, and
which one is the most importantthing, because you're not gonna
make a huge amount of progressif you don't push yourself.
On a regular basis, not on adaily basis, but on a regular
basis, you have to try and pushoutside of your comfort zone.
That's how you achieve some,some more short term goals, but
(49:41):
that constant, consistent gracethat maintains overall
consistency is probably the bestway to run for the next decade
upon decade.
Angie (49:50):
Yeah, no, I would agree with that and I think that
that's, I, I feel like.
I've been giving myself a lot ofgrace over the last couple of
months, and then when Novemberhit, I was like, okay, an it's
time to get back on the horse.
Kevin (50:00):
You've given yourself grace, but you've also really
gone for it in the weight room.
I feel like you've givenyourself more grace cardio wise,
but pushed yourself on weights.
Angie (50:08):
Well, I mean,
Kevin (50:09):
that may just mean my perception.
Angie (50:11):
I mean, training wise, I feel like I've just.
In maintenance mode, like kindof where I always am, but I have
actually been increasing myweights in, in the weight room.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't been pushing myself onmy runs in order, like for a
performance, but I've beendefinitely maintaining my, my
running performance and I'vebeen very consistent with all of
it.
Even regard, you know, not even,um, like even considering all
(50:35):
the.
Crap that I've, that I've beenkind of dealing with.
I've been very consistent withmy workouts because that is part
of what helps me stay grounded.
Kevin (50:42):
Yeah.
I know.
That's what's helped me.
Yeah.
Like honestly, being able to,it's, it's why I have tally
marks on the, the board in myclassroom is I can keep putting
'em up for miles that I've putin.
Like as long as the tally markskeep increasing, I feel like
I've got some sense of control.
Mm-hmm.
Even though it's not, eventhough like clearly I don't.
Oh, nope, I didn't.
I wasn't able to run Tuesday orWednesday.
(51:04):
I'm gonna jump back on it onThursday so I can keep the tally
marks going on the board.
It gives me a feeling of controlover something that I don't have
a hundred percent control over.
Angie (51:12):
Yeah, so I would love to invite all of you, you know that
now that you're listening tothis episode, as we wrap up
here, kind of your takeaway fromthe episode is to ask yourself,
you know, and maybe even take acouple minutes to journal on
this, if you can.
Like, the first question wouldbe.
Where are you trying to controlsomething that.
(51:33):
You don't have full control overor an area of your life that
maybe you need to lean in moreto release and trust and letting
go and just kind of seeing howit flows.
And then the second questionwould be the opposite of where
do you think you could take moreownership in your life instead
of waiting for somethingexternal to change, you know
(51:55):
where.
Are there areas of your lifewhere you could take back more
of your power and more of yourcontrol versus just
relinquishing that?
And I think that it's importantfor us to always journal on
both.
You know, what am I trying tocontrol that I really should
release, and what am I.
Not controlling, what am I nottaking ownership of that I
(52:17):
really could benefit from takinga little bit back, a little bit
more there.
Kevin (52:22):
Yeah.
And those are both difficultquestions.
Mm-hmm.
Like when you start journalism,you're like, oh, I have actually
completely released control overthat and I need to step back up.
And it's, it's tricky, but it'ssomething that you should
probably come back to every fewweeks to see if you're actually
in control of the things.
That you should be in controlover.
Yeah, I know.
That's the direction that I leantowards of like, oh yeah, I
kinda let that one slip.
I should really take charge.
(52:43):
And again.
Angie (52:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, truly, you know,when we start to put all these
things toge together, that'sreally what our membership is
all about.
It's what the runningreconnected method is all about
is.
Learning how to reconnect toyour body's wisdom, to building
trust with yourself and learninghow to balance the control and
the surrender, both with thethings that we do physically
(53:06):
have control over, and also thethings that we, you know,
mentally need to work on inthese things, because that's
really where.
Freedom and performance all comefrom it.
It, it comes from understandingthat there are a lot of things
that we can control and there'sa lot of things that we don't
need to control.
We can just allow ourselves toflow and to train with intention
(53:28):
instead of this need to have a,a.
Death grip on all of the thingsthat we've got going on in our
life and feeling like we'refailing in all of these areas if
things aren't going the way wewant them to.
Kevin (53:40):
Yes, I a hundred percent.
'cause if you, if you try togrip too hard, you're just
living a life centered aroundfear.
Yeah.
Fear that something's about to,to fall, something's gonna
break.
Angie (53:50):
Yeah.
And that's a really hard way tolive.
So I would love, if you knowthis episode resonated with you,
I would love to invite you.
To come check out the Real LifeRunners team.
You can get more informationover@realliferunners.com slash
team because that's where weteach our running reconnected
method.
We have video lessons.
You get a personalized trainingplan that integrates your
running and your strengthtraining and your mobility, and
(54:12):
all of these other things thatwe're talking about, like
nervous system regulation andunderstanding nutrition and
recovery and mindset.
We have.
Coach, we have lessons that youcan watch on your own time.
And then we also have coaching,um, every single week where you
can come and figure out whereyou can improve and get, you
know, feedback, personalizedfeedback for you to help you
(54:35):
with your running and genuinelythe rest of your life.
'cause that's.
The goal of this podcast and ourentire coaching program is to
help you grow as a runner, butalso grow as a human mind, body
and spirit.
So check it out real liferunners.com/team.
If you feel like you're notquite ready for the team yet, we
have a 30 day running resetwhere you can get.
(54:57):
A really good taste of exactlywhat we're about and make a
significant change in 30 daysthe way that I have that program
set up.
Um, and I'm actually running aspecial on that right now, so
you can also check that out overon the website if you go to real
life runners.com right on thehomepage, you, you can get, get
the links for all of it.
You get the links for thepodcast, for the Running reset,
(55:17):
and then also for our groupcoaching program, the Real Life
Runners team.
So as always, guys, thanks forjoining us today.
Please share.
And review the podcast, um, andhelp us reach more runners.
And I hope to see you inside theReal Life runners team soon.
Um, as always, this has been theReal Life Runners podcast,
episode number 435.
Now, get out there and run yourlife.
(55:38):
I.
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