December 11, 2025 • 52 mins
In this week’s episode, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Kate Edwards, a physical therapist with more than 15 years of experience and someone who brings so much compassion and clarity to the running community. From the very beginning, I knew this conversation would resonate deeply with runners who struggle with identity, injury, stress, or the constant pressure to “do it all.”
Kate shares how her journey into running medicine was shaped not only by her clinical background but also by her own experiences navigating significant health challenges. That perspective gives her a rare depth of understanding — one that so many runners will feel seen and supported by.
We spend a lot of time talking about athletic identity, because it’s something I see runners wrestle with every single day. It’s so easy for running to become the biggest part of who we are… until something shifts. Injury, life changes, burnout, or even a tough training cycle can shake that identity. Kate and I dig into why building a more balanced sense of self not only supports your emotional well-being but also plays a major role in injury prevention and longevity in the sport.
We also explore the true complexity of running injuries, RED-S, stress, fueling (especially for female runners), and why understanding yourself as a whole human — not just an athlete — is essential for long-term health. Kate does an incredible job unpacking these topics in a way that feels both empowering and practical, giving runners a clearer picture of how their body, mind, and lifestyle all fit together.
If you’ve ever felt “less than” when you’re not running your best, or if you’re craving a more sustainable, joyful relationship with your training, this conversation is absolutely for you.
Connect with Dr. Kate Edwards:
https://www.fastbananas.com/
https://www.instagram.com/katemihevcedwards/
05:22 The Importance of Athletic Identity
12:01 The Impact of Injury on Identity
13:41 Finding New Outlets and Coping Strategies
23:00 Understanding Running Injuries
26:30 The Role of Physical Therapists
28:13 Stress and Its Impact on Runners
35:51 Understanding Relative Energy Deficiency in Sp
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 12 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast today.
(00:02):
I'm so excited to introduce youto Dr.
Kate Edwards.
She's a physical therapist,running medicine specialist,
researcher, and a key member ofthe multidisciplinary care team
for the Atlanta Track Clubelites.
The moment that Kate and I met,we clicked instantly.
She's just one of those peopleand those clinicians that
actually gets it, not just thephysical side of running, but
the emotional and psychologicallayers that most people never
(00:22):
talk about that you all know.
I'm.
So passionate here about on thepodcast, and that's exactly what
we're diving into today.
The concept of athleticidentity, what it means to see
yourself as a runner, how thatidentity can both empower you,
and how it can also become aslippery slope when running
becomes the only way that youdefine yourself.
We covered so many great topics.
We ta we talk about why so manyrunners struggle to call
(00:44):
themselves.
Real runners, why over 80% ofrunners get injured?
How stress and nervous systemload influence your, your
ability to train, and the uniquechallenges that women,
especially over 40 face withfueling hormones and
performance.
You guys are gonna love thisconversation with Kate.
We go way beyond biomechanics inour world as physical
therapists, and Kate even sharesher own powerful story of losing
(01:05):
her ability to run after alife-threatening event and how
she rebuilt her identity.
Her health and her relationshipwith running from the ground up.
So welcome Dr.
Kate Edwards to the show.
I'm so excited for you guys tohear it.
Let's dive in.
Speaker (01:41):
All right, runners.
Welcome to the show today.
I am so excited to have Dr.
Kate Edwards here with me.
What's up, Kate?
How are you?
I'm doing great, Angie.
How about you?
I'm fantastic.
I'm so excited for ourconversation.
So Kate and I have just metrecently, and she is also a
physical therapist that treatsrunners, and she and I just
connected immediately when westarted talking.
so we are gonna dive into somereally fun topics today.
(02:03):
But before we jump in, Kate,please introduce yourself to our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Sure.
So as you said, I am Dr.
Kate MHE Edwards, and I'm aphysical therapist and I
practice running medicine.
So what that means is I treatalmost exclusively runners at
this point, which is so fun, andI feel very lucky that's what I
can do.
So I own a running medicineclinic in the Atlanta area, and
I work with the Atlanta TrackClub elites on a
(02:29):
multidisciplinary team that Ihelp to build.
So that's also really greatbecause I get to work with all
different healthcare providersto really provide the best care
possible for our team.
And not a lot of people get thatkind of treatment.
So it's fun to be able to dothat.
And I.
They have a podcast and doresearch and really anything you
(02:50):
can think of that's related torunning except for coaching.
Actually, I don't coach runnersreally.
yeah, I don't coach runners.
but, everything else, like I, Ihave been a runner for a long
time and, I touch it in alldifferent ways.
Speaker (03:04):
I love that.
So how did you get intospecializing in runners?
because obviously you said youwere a runner, or you have been
a runner for years, but.
what made you have this specialinterest in going into running
medicine?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think it really was my love of running.
So running for me gave me somany things.
So it helped me be a betterperson.
It helped me, it taught mediscipline, it taught me drive,
it, helped me shape things whenI felt out of control.
Like the world around me wascrazy.
I loved a good trainingschedule.
(03:36):
it kept me on track.
So I think my experience withrunning and falling in love with
running made me realize that.
Somebody needed to treatrunners.
I was injured.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
in college and saw a physical therapist.
And then after that, when I wastraining for my first marathon,
my coach was a physicaltherapist.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And
Speaker 2 (03:56):
even though I went to school for something completely
different I loved what she did.
I saw how she interacted withpeople on the track.
I saw how she thought aboutthings differently than
everybody else that I really hadmet before.
And so I just.
started following her to worklove, love it, and showing up.
And she was wonderful.
And she let me do that.
And eventually that brought meto the idea that, okay, maybe
(04:17):
the career I thought I was goingto do is not going to happen.
And I'd rather be a physicaltherapist who treated runners.
Speaker (04:23):
I love that.
So how long had you beenrunning, like until, like when
you got to that point, did youstart in high school with kind
of cross country and take thetypical running path?
No.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So I went to such a small school that we didn't have
a cross country team.
Really?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yes.
Oh wow.
That is a small school.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It was very small.
So I ran all through highschool, but it was on my own.
It was in the middle of thecountry, down a dirt road.
I would run to town maybe, so Iwas running, but I, didn't have.
Formal training until college.
Okay.
Which was really interesting.
So I just, I ran and ran likefor Gump.
And then, and then I, my firstrace ever was a half marathon.
Speaker (05:02):
Wow.
You jumped right in feet first.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Sure did.
I didn't know any better.
Yeah.
And I think that's actually whathappens with a lot of runners is
they It's true.
Find it.
They don't really have astructured background in it.
And that's part of the reason Ithink injury occurs too.
Speaker (05:16):
Oh, 100%.
That's why, and I think that alot of runners do take that path
of okay, I'm just gonna startrunning.
And some runners, especiallywhen they get into it later in
life, they don't do the whole5K, 10 K, let's build up to
things.
It's I need to be in bettershape.
I'm gonna sign up for a halfmarathon or a marathon, or I've
got a friend that's running ahalf marathon.
That sounds interesting.
Let's do that.
Yeah.
And so they jump in thinking.
(05:38):
It's just running, right?
Like how many times have weheard that where it's oh, it's
just running.
Like I just need some pair ofshoes and I just head out the
door and go run.
And yes, even though we havebeen doing it for our whole
lives, since we were probably,what, two years old, a year and
a half or whenever we started tonot fall over when we started to
go a little faster.
Yeah, we've been doing it.
But in order to progress and doso at a level where you're
(06:01):
running faster or you're runninglonger or you're seeking some
sort of performance goals,that's a totally different
mindset.
And skillset.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes, absolutely.
The running, the running reportthat came out this year said
that 75% of runners coachthemselves.
Wow.
Speaker (06:17):
75%.
Yes.
75%.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And so that,'cause it seems
Speaker (06:21):
simple.
Like it's very accessible, whichis so fantastic.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's what we love about it, is that it's so
accessible.
It's such a great way to improveso many aspects of our health.
Absolutely.
Yet there is a part of it whichmost people don't realize, that
we really could benefit and dobenefit from structured
coaching.
We benefit from understandinghow our body works, And what
are, signs and symptoms ofovertraining and what.
(06:46):
Part of, how much does emotionaland mental health and stress
impact our actual physicalhealth?
So there's so many aspects ofit.
Yeah.
You don't realize when you justlace up your shoes and go out
the door.
And I certainly didn't realizethat.
Speaker (06:58):
Yeah.
In the
Speaker 2 (06:59):
beginning, which is why I ended up injured.
Speaker (07:01):
Yeah, I definitely didn't either.
And I think that, The big topicthat we're gonna talk about
today is athletic identity, andI'm super excited to dig into
this because I also didn't, likeI did, was not a cross country
runner.
I actually hated running.
So I, was played volleyball,basketball, and softball growing
up.
And running was the punishmentin all my sports, right?
So it's like you missed a serve,you did this, like you had to go
(07:23):
run for punishment.
So I had a very negative,perspective on running.
I really did not like it at alluntil I met my husband.
And he he was a runner.
He did the whole cross country,ran in college.
And, he showed me that it couldbe something different and it
could actually be something kindof fun.
But for a long time I just ran.
I would never call myself arunner.
I never wanted that identity orbelieved.
(07:44):
I think maybe not so much that Ididn't want it, but so much that
I didn't fully feel like Ideserved it.
that wasn't me, like runnerswere at this other level that I
was not on.
And what, that's one of thethings that I love helping
people with now is helping themunderstand that you.
Are a runner, right?
if you run, you're a runner.
If you go out and you train andyou run multiple times a week,
(08:05):
you are a runner regardless ofyour pace, regardless of your
distance, regardless of any ofthe baloney, you know how many
medals you have on your wall.
You're a runner.
And when you become a runner,you have to start thinking like
one.
And that kind of leads us into,what our topic of the day is,
which is athletic identity.
And I know this is a topic thatyou're passionate about too, and
I love that you take.
A multidisciplinary approachwith your runners and your
(08:27):
athletes.
So let's talk about athleticidentity.
what exactly is it?
this topic that we're talkingabout today.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So athletic identity is this idea of who you identify
as in the world, how yourepresent yourself in the world.
What values do you have?
Where do you see yourself insociety?
Yeah.
And so it's very big.
So if you're, it could bedifferent for everybody.
So sometimes CEOs, theiridentity is being a CEO or a
mom.
(08:55):
Stay-at-home mom, their identitymight be a stay-at-home mom.
For runners, it's often myidentity is a runner because
that's how I connect in theworld.
That's how I see my, the lens inwhich I see myself through.
Yeah.
And so when we see ourselvesthrough this lens, it can become
really big.
Like we might only eat based onour training schedule.
(09:17):
We might have, our wholewardrobe might be dedicated to
running.
It might be race shirts.
It might be the only shoes wewear are running shoes.
It might be.
the bag that we carry around,says a race that we did.
And what our social activity isdoing our long run on the
weekend and meeting ourgirlfriends for coffee.
One of my favorite Saturdays.
come on, let's be real.
(09:38):
No, it's lovely.
Yeah.
It's exactly right.
Yeah.
And so that is a strong athleticidentity when all of the things
in our life Are related to thesport in which we do.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah.
And
Speaker 2 (09:49):
it defines who we are.
And so it can be a really goodthing, or it can be a slippery
slope.
Speaker (09:55):
No, I 100% agree.
And it's funny because I feellike this is gonna be such like
a fun thing for us to talk aboutbecause I'm on the end of where
there's a lot of people that runbut don't identify as a runner,
even though they are doing a lotof the things that you describe,
right?
Like even though they're runningraces, even though they are
always buying new running shoesor these kinds of things, but in
(10:18):
their mind they've definedrunner as someone that's.
Faster, or someone that runsfurther or whatever it is that
they've defined runner as, andthey keep themself out of that
box.
And so stepping into thatathletic identity can be such a
game changer for those people.
And then there's the oppositeend of the spectrum, which is I
think where you work a lot withwhere.
(10:39):
Runner becomes your entireidentity.
Because we have so manydifferent identities as humans,
right?
I am a mother, I'm a wife, I ama runner, I am a coach, I am a,
physical therapist.
Like we, we have so manydifferent identities and all of
them do have their own lens,right?
I can put on my PT hat sometimesI need the PT hat, sometimes I
need my coaching hat.
(10:59):
And those things overlap, butthey're not always the same.
And I think that.
It becomes dangerous, it becomesthat more slippery slope like
you're talking about when runneror whatever it is, stay at home.
Mom becomes your full identitywhen you don't have anything
else outside of that,
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That's exactly right.
And so we know, the researchsays that people who have a
strong athletic identity Areable to push themselves harder
in training.
They're able to, Figure out howto put more work in when need,
when it needs to happen.
Yeah.
And often they can be moredriven towards that one goal.
So it's great and it's veryuseful to have a strong athletic
(11:35):
identity, especially for someonewho's an elite athlete per se.
Absolutely.
However, what happens is whenyou put all those eggs in one
basket, when you lose the thingthat you love Which could be
running, then you're lost.
And that the research also showsthat you become, you start to
spiral and you can end up inanxiety and depression.
(11:56):
And it really impacts yourrelationships in your life and
all of the things and parts ofyour life.
And so figuring out that kind ofmiddle ground.
I love how you, I actually saythe same thing a lot that you
just said about people who don'tidentify as runners.
I think that if you put shoes onand you run outside, you are a
runner.
And you're doing it.
(12:16):
And, it also is interesting tome a little bit, a side thing,
is that when we look at runningresearch.
It often asks people whoidentify as runners, but you're
missing out on all of theseother people who actually run.
And are runners, but they justdon't identify as it true.
So I think it can be reallyuseful if you're somebody that
runs to say, okay, I am arunner, and it gives you more
(12:37):
confidence.
As long as you keep all of thoseother things that you love
active outside of the sport.
Yeah.
And then if you are somebody whotruly identifies as just a
runner, you need to find toolsand fun things outside of your
sport that you can do that, thatallow you to be more than just a
runner so that if somethinghappens,
Speaker (12:58):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That you have something to fall back on.
Speaker (13:00):
Absolutely.
Because that's where injurybecomes very like even worse
than it already is, right?
because it stinks to be injured.
You're in pain.
It is physically uncomfortable,but then there's the whole
emotional side and Yes, and eventhis identity piece that goes
with it.
When you are, when you fullyidentify as a runner.
(13:23):
And you're injured and you'renot able to do the thing that
you love.
It's a lot of people are like,then what am I?
Or what am I supposed to do?
Because this is what I do.
if I don't go out for a run foran hour every day and a couple
hours on the weekends, I don'tknow what else to do with my
life.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right.
And so we had mentioned beforewe started recording that I, was
a big, marathon runner.
Yeah.
And I did triathlon.
And a year after I had my son, Iwas out for a training run and I
went into ventriculartachycardia and almost died.
Oh my gosh.
And.
I was very lucky that I didn't,my heart actually went back to a
(14:01):
normal rhythm on its own, whichis rare.
And it took about nine to 10months for them to diagnose me.
So during those nine to 10months, I was losing pieces of
myself the whole time.
So I was somebody that overidentified as a runner.
Yeah.
So I truly.
Put everything into it.
it's my job, still is my job.
(14:22):
Yeah.
And I love it, my friend group.
it was the way I managed stress.
Yeah.
It was the way I found worthself-worth for me.
Like the faster I ran, thebetter I felt about myself.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Sure.
The
Speaker 2 (14:33):
more races that I won, qualifying for Boston, all
of those things were reallyimportant to me.
And then it came to a pointwhere they, I nearly died doing
what I loved and it, I slowlylost the ability to do so over
nine or 10 months and I didn'tknow what to do.
And I went into depression and Iwent, had a lot of anxiety and I
(14:55):
had to have, yeah, a lot ofhelp, speak to somebody about
that.
a sports psychologist, andfigure out like, what is it that
I need to do here?
And through that process.
I learned a lot of differentthings.
I learned what it was like to bea patient, which I didn't love.
True.
And, yeah.
Which helped me be a betterprovider.
it does.
Yeah.
it absolutely does.
and so that was great from anoutcome standpoint, but terrible
(15:18):
in the moment.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (15:20):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Two, I learned that I needed to find something outside
of my sport and that helped meto teach my patients the same
thing.
So I learned that even though Ihated meditation, like really
hated it.
I really hated it because Icouldn't sit still.
Speaker (15:36):
Yeah.
was so many thoughts goingthrough your brain and you're
like, I'm just doing it wrong.
That's what's a waste of time's.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah.
Yes.
But what I learned is that ifyou sit down even for a minute,
you're winning.
So I started to think about it.
You're winning in terms of, oh,I'm winning when I meditate.
Yeah, because it's
Speaker (15:50):
the process.
It's not what's actuallyhappening.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That's right.
Yeah.
So I learned that and then therewere so many things I learned
along the way, going throughthat process that helped me as a
person and a patient, and itmade me realize and reflect
backwards that okay, my athleticidentity was so entrenched that
it was hurting me.
So I had to figure out adifferent plan.
Speaker (16:12):
Yeah.
So then what did you do?
I worked
Speaker 2 (16:15):
with a sports psychologist, which is really
helpful.
it was incredibly helpful.
And, but
Speaker (16:19):
how did you start to shift like that athletic
identity, right?
Like with the help of yoursports psychologist and the
meditation and all these otherthings.
if there's someone listening tothis podcast thinking to
themselves, oh goodness, thissounds like me.
What?
Would you suggest, like what's astarting point that, like how
were you able to start to shiftthat athletic identity from
being so entrenched as, I am arunner and this is everything in
(16:43):
my life to, okay.
You know what?
I can open myself up to otherthings here as well.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
it was really painful.
Yeah.
Because I had to try a lot ofthings.
Yeah.
Because nothing felt as good asrunning to me.
And nothing, I didn't want to doanything else.
So slowly over time it wastrying different things.
going to a yoga class.
My husband actually, we laughnow, but I would go to this yoga
class and they had a 30 daychallenge To see how many yoga
(17:09):
classes you could do in 30 days.
Oh wow.
And I was like, oh, I can't run,so I'm gonna win yoga.
I'm gonna win.
I'm gonna win at the yoga.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
So by the way, it turns out yoga is not about
winning.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Your yoga instructors are probably like, who is this
girl?
What is happening?
namaste lady.
come on, bring it down.
Bring it down.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
And now I'm actually really good friends with my yoga
instructor.
So funny.
And she really helped me throughthe whole transition.
Oh my gosh.
But I was like going to win atyoga instructor.
Oh my gosh.
How many yoga classes did youdo?
Oh my God.
I don't know.
I went multiple.
Oh, come on.
You didn't know.
No.
So I like two a day
Speaker 2 (17:52):
at least.
Sometimes it was three a day,and then if I missed a day,
Speaker 5 (17:56):
I was so upset because somebody else might beat
me.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Oh my God.
so I need a tissue right now.
I'm literally like crying herebecause this is so funny.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
and, but that's, it's funny because I actually know
that this is what my patientsdo.
Yeah, totally.
and so I understand.
yep.
And, yeah, I, it's thatcompetitive
Speaker (18:14):
mentality.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Exactly, and that was so I didn't lose the competitive
mentality.
and since then, I can run alittle bit.
I, but it's nothing like before.
Yeah.
So I still do yoga.
I strength train, I walk, but Irun once or twice a week.
And it has to be with somebody.
I have a rare genetic heartdisease and an implanted
defibrillator.
Okay.
Is what they found out.
But I can run, but I've foundother outlets.
(18:37):
my business actually became agreat outlet because now I have
two companies.
Of course, they're aboutrunning, so I'm still involved
in the world.
Still there.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah.
I'm
Speaker 2 (18:45):
still there and I still get to relate to my
people.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
But
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I do it in a different way.
And I get to help other peopledo this thing that they love.
Yeah.
And not everybody would be ableto do that.
That's very true.
Like some people, if they can'tdo it, they don't wanna be
around it.
And they can't get through that.
I worked really hard with asports psychologist about that,
and luckily I was able to Staywith it.
It's just in a different way.
And I had to reframe what Ithought it meant to be a runner.
(19:10):
And that was hard too, because Ithought, again, wrongfully, I
thought that being a runner was.
going to the Boston MarathonYeah.
And running 50 miles a week and,being really fast.
And a runner is somebody whoputs on their shoes and goes out
the door.
How did you make that shift?
Practice, practice over time anda lot of journaling about it.
(19:32):
A lot of talking about it, A lotof, reflecting on why Why did I
feel this way and why were thesemy beliefs?
Yeah.
And who put them there.
And then realizing that I did itto myself and it really wasn't
running's fault and it wasreally that I was trying to not
address other things in my lifeand I was using running.
(19:54):
And this isn't what everybodydoes, but I did.
Speaker (19:56):
But a lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (19:58):
A lot of people do.
Let's be honest, right?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
A lot of people do.
I was using running to avoidother things.
Speaker (20:04):
Yep.
Yeah.
And I think that whether it'savoiding.
Stress, whether it's avoidinguncomfortable conversations or
realizations that you might haveabout your life, whether it's
avoiding, talking about food oryour food obsession or food,
eating disorders.
there's a lot of things thatcan, that we can use Running
for, this is one of thedouble-edged swords I think of
(20:27):
running, right?
it can be so good for us in somany ways, but it can also, when
we There's a very fine linesometimes, right?
And we can flip over into whererunning can become a more toxic
type of thing in our life whenit's replacing other things,
when it becomes the only thingthat we can think about when we
(20:48):
are so devoted to that, that welose everything else in our
life.
And there's people, and I knowthat sounds extreme, especially
probably to a lot of listenersof this podcast, but.
It does happen, and I think it'simportant and whether or not
it's running for you, it couldbe something else, right?
There's people that usesomething and I think that's
(21:08):
where like part of what's comingup for me right now is like
addiction too.
Yeah.
There's a lot of people that userunning as a substitute for
addiction.
so they, which arguably is abetter thing, right?
if versus, drug addiction oraddiction to alcohol or
something like that.
Running is a quote unquotehealthier.
Obsession or addiction, but italso can become unhealthy,
(21:31):
right?
Like it's running can become anunhealthy thing physically,
mentally, emotionally,psychologically.
And that's, I don't think, noteverybody realizes that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, because so many people, I, it is a very common
thing for people who strugglewith alcoholism Yeah.
To pick running, and so allthey're doing again, it's better
for sure.
But what they're doing isthey're swapping this a, an
addictive thing for anotheraddictive thing.
And, and nobody wants to tell'emto stop because they realize
it's so much better and they'rein a better path, but Right.
(22:06):
But the thing that's missingthere is that talking with
somebody is working on thatpsychological or that mental
health aspect.
Yeah.
Which luckily mental health issomething we talk about now.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
But it, you have to decide to do it because you
might not be ready and you mightnot want to.
I wasn't.
Yeah.
I think
Speaker (22:22):
it, it's yeah, it's the whole idea of running is my
therapy.
Running is my therapy.
There's so many runners that saythat because they're, they don't
wanna talk about their problems,so they'll just run because
there is that dopamine andadrenaline and the things that
get released, right?
there are those good hormonesthat get released in our body
that make us feel better.
(22:42):
Yes.
At least temporarily, right?
Yes.
But it's not addressing theunderlying things, and that's
where it becomes moreproblematic.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
That's right.
And there was actually a couple,and I think this is what you're
referring to, a couple researchpapers that showed that running
can actually, mimic soantidepressants In a lot of
ways.
Correct.
and so people are like, oh, thisis great.
I can just do this.
And it doesn't mean you can runinstead of taking
antidepressants.
I think a lot of people, readthat paper in that way.
(23:10):
And that's not what was meant tobe said, I don't think.
because I think you do sometimesif you need them you can take
them.
But, I think it's reallyinteresting what running does
from that mental emotionalstandpoint and it's such a
lovely thing.
So I don't wanna get down onrunning in any way, because
obviously not at all.
Obviously we both love it.
It's just really, like you saidearlier, finding that fine line
of Okay.
What is it that I do need toaddress here, and am I ready to
Speaker (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
My husband, I think, wentthrough this too.
'cause he was a runner incollege and then kept getting
injured and so he had to quitthe team because he just was in
a chronic injury.
It just wasn't working out rightbecause of the college load that
he was in and whatnot.
So then it was like he wentthrough so many different
identity shifts with this goingfrom collegiate competitive
(23:55):
runner into, okay, now.
I'm running on my own, what doesthat look like?
running, so this block aftercollege of okay, I like running,
but do I still wanna be doingit?
At what level do I wanna bedoing it?
And then we had kids, right?
And then it's okay, now I'm adad and a runner, right?
There's all these differenttransitions and shifts, even in
his running journey that is muchdifferent than mine.
(24:17):
But we have to kind oftransition and figure out how
running fits in with us atdifferent phases in our life.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes.
And if we're, and if we'rehealthy about it, yeah.
Then that makes it easierbecause they're like, oh, okay.
It's not everything, but it'ssomething that really supports
me and bolsters me.
Yeah.
So I'm going to find time forit.
However, I'm not going to,obsess about it, so it impacts
the rest of my life negatively.
Speaker (24:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And One of the big pieces of allof this, I think, too, and one
of the reasons we're talkingabout identity is its
relationship to injury, right?
Yeah.
Because runners, unfortunately,what is it?
Over 80% of runners get injured.
Yeah.
And those statistics depend onwhich study you're looking at.
vary, but I like to just sayover 80% because it is.
A wildly high number that is howmany runners get injured.
(25:03):
And touching back on what westarted the conversation with
earlier, why does that happen?
Like why are runners gettinginjured?
And I would love to hear yourperspective on this,'cause
obviously I have my own, but,why do so many runners get
injured?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So I think everybody's trying to find this
one reason why runners getinjured.
So I had said to you, thisrecent paper that came out was a
great, it's actually anincredible paper to come out.
And something that we learnedfrom where it's talking about
that if you increase one run aweek by more than 10% Yeah.
Then you're at higher risk forinjury versus overall.
that 10 or 15% overall in theweek.
(25:41):
And when that paper came out, Iwas excited and also.
terrified because all of asudden everybody was saying, oh,
we can get rid of the 10% rule.
It's just this one run Thatimpacts our injury rate.
and I, I.
No.
Sat with it for such a long timeand I, and, but I heard so many
people talking about it andsaying that on podcasts and in
(26:04):
the, in our running world.
Yep.
So what does running injury, howdoes running injury happen?
Yes.
That's one one thing.
That's one thing.
That's about actual trainingload.
Yeah.
And how we load the body andyes, that can impact injury.
We see that in the research.
But right.
Running is multifactorial, likerunning injury is
multifactorial, which means it,IM is impacted by our stress,
(26:27):
how much we sleep, whether ornot we're eating enough.
Timing of our nutrition
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yep.
Is
Speaker 2 (26:33):
important.
It's about, strength andresilience and consistency.
And, how, so how we look at ourentire week, it's about have we
had a previous injury before anddid we rehab it appropriately?
And all of these things matterwhen it comes to running injury.
And that's why it's 80% of thepopulation.
(26:54):
Because even though we'relooking for one quick fix, there
isn't one.
it can be any of these things.
It can be related to shoes.
It could, so it's a really hardquestion, why do we, why are we
run or why are we injured?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But the reason is it's different for everybody.
It's individual and it'smultifactorial.
Speaker (27:13):
Yeah.
But.
Kate, nobody likes nuance.
Come on.
that's not, Instagram worthy,right?
Like I know it depends.
actually, right?
Like everybody, and that's, butthat's the culture that we're
in.
I think that's the problem,right?
Everybody wants to point to onething.
Everybody wants to know theanswer when there's not one
answer.
There's not one answer for oneperson, let alone one answer for
(27:37):
every person.
Like even if you look at onerunner, it's not like there was
one reason that runner gotinjured.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Oh, no, absolutely not.
In
Speaker (27:46):
that one runner, there's probably multiple
things, at least a handful ofreasons that led to that injury
and probably a handful of Weeksand months and years and God
knows how, you know how longYes.
Leading up to that injury too.
And I think so many peopleforget to address these things.
And this is one of the bigthings that like will get me
(28:06):
going, put me on a soapboxbecause it's like, me too.
They're as physical therapistsor as special as medical
professionals.
We are often told to stay in ourlane, right?
Yes.
We are told that this is yourzone of practice.
You treat movement, you treatthe body, you prescribe
(28:27):
exercise, and I'm like, y'allthat.
It's not that simple.
We know, and I'm sure you haveplenty of athletes that have
just come into your clinic timeafter time with the same darn
thing because they're notaddressing.
The other things that are atplay here, sure, we can give you
calf raises and calf stretchesand some clamshells and like the
(28:49):
exercises that you need tostrengthen the muscles.
But if you're not eating enough,if you're not getting enough
sleep, it doesn't matter howmany exercises you're doing,
you're still gonna be gettinginjured.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
100%.
Yeah.
And as physical therapists, ournumber one thing that we say is,
it depends.
And people hate it so much.
I know.
I know.
And I say it every time I teach.
Yeah.
I say it all the time.
But it's true.
It really does depend.
And it's so much messier.
Look at, humans are messy.
Our emotions are messy.
Our movement's messy.
We're just messy.
(29:20):
And that's what injury is.
Yeah.
And we just have to accept it.
And yes.
it could be your biomechanics,it could be your strength.
Yep.
It could be your mobility andhow your training load.
All of those things areimportant.
And those are all things I'mgoing to address with you as a
physical therapist.
But that doesn't matter ifyou're not meeting your basic
needs.
(29:40):
It just doesn't, and it's noteasy to address your basic
needs.
It's not easy to do the thingsthat it takes sometimes.
But we have to decide is itworth it?
Speaker (29:50):
absolutely.
and tying this back into.
Our athletic identity.
a big piece of injury is stressmanagement.
Yes.
And what's going on with ournervous system?
Because like your nervous systemwill regulate how your body's
able to shift over into recoverymode.
So if you are just overloadingthe body day after day with
training or.
(30:11):
Restricting your food or notgetting enough sleep or just a
lot of stress.
because I think that a lot ofrunners also see running as
stress relief.
They see it.
Yeah.
Some people say it's therapy,but almost pro.
I would say almost every runner,like I don't like to make too
many generalizations, but mostrunners I think will tell you
that running provides stressrelief and it does.
(30:33):
It totally does.
Yes.
But what they don't realize.
Is that if you're going out andrunning the majority or all of
your runs, in some cases at aneffort level, that's too high.
If you don't understand,training by effort level and
understanding how important easyruns are and those kinds of
things, and you're going out andyou're just pushing yourself
every day.
(30:54):
You might feel better rightafter the run because of the
stress relief, because of thehormones that we talked about
before with the serotonin andthe dopamine and those kinds of
things that get released.
But overall, you're increasingyour stress load on the body,
which is then getting you closerto injury, which is then gonna
put you in the direction thatyou don't wanna go.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And if you think about it, I always say stress is
stress.
Yeah.
So your body can't tell thedifference between a 20 mile
run.
And if you are having financialtrouble, or if you're moving, or
even if it's good stress, likeyou're getting married, your
body doesn't know thedifference.
So we have, like I always say,you have a bucket and you put
your mental stress.
In there, you put your emotionalstress in there.
(31:35):
And you put your physical stressin there and that physical
stress is what you talked about,like your actual training And
the load on the body.
But at some point it's going tooverflow.
Yep.
And when it overflows, itdoesn't matter which one of
those stresses you put in thebucket.
It just matters that itoverflowed.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yep.
And
Speaker 2 (31:51):
that's what we're really talking about.
And then there's this otherpiece of putting stress on
yourself to complete yourtraining schedule.
So if we are told, a lot oftimes, if we say, okay, my coach
said I have to run five timesthis week, and you've got all
these things going on in yourlife, in that fifth run, you're
stressing about getting it in.
Yeah.
Now, is it useful?
(32:11):
I don't know.
Probably not, because now you'veadded so much mental and
emotional stress into thatbucket.
that physical stress might throwyou over the edge.
So when we're looking at runninginjury, we're looking at all of
those things.
And we're looking at not in oneday, we're looking at three
weeks, six weeks, 12 weeksbefore that.
And how it's all, accumulating.
Speaker (32:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm smiling because I use theexact same analogy with I love
it.
All of my.
All of my athletes, my stressbucket, like all of my clients
will tell you.
they'll tell you about thestress bucket.
'cause that's one of the bestthings I think, And we have to
figure out how to poke holes inthe bucket.
We need to figure out how torelieve the stress before it
overflows, because the overflowis what's gonna lead to the pain
(32:51):
and the injury in the burnoutthat so many people experience.
I think that this is one of thereasons why it's so important
that we as healthcare providersand running coaches and even
just, even if you don't have aprofessional that you're working
with, which why don't you firstof all like work with a coach or
a physical therapist or somebodylike you.
(33:12):
You need people on your team,Yes.
Why it's so important for us totreat the person as a whole
rather than just the body part.
Right?
People are like, oh, whatexercises can you give me for my
Achilles issue?
And I'm like, it's not thatsimple.
sure, I could give you somestuff, but if I just give you
exercises and we don't addressthe whole thing, yeah, the
likelihood of that coming backis very high.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Exactly.
So we know that eccentricloading of the achilles tendon
is really important.
And improves the outcomes ofAchilles tendinopathy.
But then also, what about, likeyou said, the nervous system?
So I think about when I eventalk about like neural mobility
in the body, I still think ofthat as, okay, that's neural
mobility, but.
That nerve runs through thethoracic spine.
(33:54):
The thoracic spine, and itsimpact on breathing.
So we think about the mechanicalstimulus of breathing, but then
also the vagus nerve.
Yes.
And then what's happening?
so it all is related and it'sjust we've tried, I think in the
medical world what's happened isthings have been divvied.
All over the place For so long.
Yeah.
That it's become tunnel vision.
(34:14):
And when it's tunnel vision, andlike you said earlier, we have
to, stay in our lane.
yeah.
We do have to stay in our laneto some extent.
But a lot of it overlaps.
Like lifestyle medicine rightnow is what we do as physical
therapists.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker (34:29):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think that It isinteresting, and I think that is
one of the breakdowns of themedical system, the Western
medical system, is that theyhave, on one hand it's very
good, right?
Because we have all thesespecializations, we've got
orthopedic surgeons, and we'vegot, neuro neurologists and all
sorts of amazing people that areexperts in what they do.
(34:49):
But I think that we're, that ina way makes it even worse
because.
Even those specialists, when yougo see them, they just will,
sometimes they won't, not, won'teven recognize that there's
something else going on becausethey just wanna do the surgery
and other times they'll justrefer you and then people are
just going from this doctor tothis doctor trying to figure it
all out and they just needsomebody or something to help
(35:12):
them bring it all together.
And I think, that was always mygoal as a clinician.
It still is my goal always as aclinician is helping them see
how all these pieces fittogether and how.
The other things in their lifeare really impacting their
recovery.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I think that's what I do best.
Yeah.
Is just absolutely being the onewho's driving it and looking at
everything and bringing ittogether and Yeah.
If I need to refer someone'causeI work multidisciplinary teams
all the time.
I love that.
and I will refer, but first I'mgoing to look at the big picture
and say I'm not just gonna sendthem to somebody to send them,
I'm gonna send them because theyhave X, Y, and z.
(35:47):
That means they need to seethem.
so I, I think that's a reallyimportant piece and that's what,
I do well in my clinic doeswell, and I think actually that
the idea of running medicine, sopeople don't really know that
it's fairly new.
So I had to explain it the otherday to an agent, a running
agent, and so I was like, okay,running medicine is Orthopedics,
but for runners, but unlikeorthopedics, we zoom out.
(36:11):
And we look at the big picture.
Yeah.
Put all the pieces together sothat we can figure out this
injury in front of us.
Speaker (36:17):
I love that.
And so who do you have on yourmultidisciplinary team?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, so it depends.
So for the Atlanta Track ClubElite, so we have a sports
psychologist, a sportsdietician.
We have the running coach, wehave director of high
performance, we have achiropractor, we have physical,
my whole physical therapy team.
And we have two physicians, afemale physician and a male
physician.
Both are, one is primary sportsmed and the other is sports med
(36:43):
and orthopedics.
So it's really cool because weactually talk every Wednesday.
and go through how can we helpall of our athletes.
I love that in different ways.
And so we actually just startedthis year, our initiative was to
really initiate red screeningfrom the get go and have
everybody go through.
Specific Red's testing.
(37:03):
Yeah.
And we are tracking all of ourinjuries and, red's information
in the front.
And we're looking at, and we'reusing the Red CAT two, which is
just a que like basically asystem and how to, how to decide
if runners are at risk.
And it's a red light, greenlight system.
Oh,
Speaker (37:18):
fun.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
So it makes it pretty easy because you can say, okay,
these athletes are in theyellow, these are in the orange,
these are in the red or thegreen.
And who do we need to follow andwhat changes do we need to make
before they get injured?
Speaker (37:31):
I love that.
Can you just, you were talkingabout reds.
Can you just explain that forthe listeners in case there's
anyone that's unfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So relative energy deficiency in sport.
And so essentially what it is,it's a constellation of symptoms
that impact all of your bodysystems.
So what happens a lot of timepeople get lost in the medical
system because they have GIissues, they're having a hard
time.
Sleeping.
Yep.
Their performance maybe is, isimpacted.
They are, maybe they have a bonestress injury and all of these
(38:00):
things can fall under reds andcan be signs and symptoms of
reds.
But if you don't understandthat's a possibility, then what
happens is you get shiftedaround and sent to a lot of
different people.
So reds is really.
it can be a diagnosis ofexclusion, but that's why
looking for it early on andnoticing any signs and symptoms
help us to prevent on On the, onthe backend.
(38:23):
Yeah.
And a lot of times we talkabout, for female athletes their
cycle.
So if you've lost your cycle,that is a huge indicator that
you're far into reds already.
Speaker (38:33):
Yeah.
So reds is relative energydeficiency in sport.
How do we.
what does that mean exactly forpeople that are maybe, oh,
sorry.
No, it's okay.
Like I just wanna like reallybreak it down to a simple level
is
Speaker 2 (38:47):
No, I'm glad.
Sorry, what?
What
Speaker (38:48):
leads to relative energy deficiency?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Low energy is, has to do with nutrition specifically.
Yeah.
So not getting enough caloriesis really where it starts.
So when you don't fuel your bodyappropriately And then it starts
to set off a cascade of issues,when it comes to your hormones
and your endocrine system andthe rest of your systems.
Yeah.
In your body.
So it's really about.
Getting enough fuel and timingyour, is also timing your fuel
(39:13):
appropriately because there issome research that says that if
you, even if you're eatingenough calories in total, if
you're not timing them aroundyour exercise, you're also at
risk for reds.
Speaker (39:25):
Okay.
When you say timing aroundexercise, you mean before,
after, or both?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (39:30):
Yeah.
and also carbs.
So it's getting, say that again.
And also carbs.
Carbs, yeah.
And making chicken.
carbs are your friend as arunner, right?
Yeah.
To take this one step further,right?
Knowing that losing your cycleis one of the hallmark signs of
reds, that really starts topoint us more in that direction
when it comes to females.
But I work a lot with women over40.
Yeah.
And we're getting intoperimenopause and Yes, post
(39:52):
menopause, right?
And so they are losing theircycle just because it's that
time, right?
Like it's that time of our life,right?
Where that's what's happening.
We've got our estrogen levelsdeclining, we've got, things
going on hormonally.
Because of that.
How do we know if is, if, isthis perimenopause, is this
reds, like what's going on here?
(40:12):
and how important is fueling inperimenopause and menopause?
Because there's a lot of women,that start gaining weight
because of these hormonalchanges, especially around the
belly.
And what's the first thing theydo?
Restrict calories.
Restrict their diet.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Exactly.
Yeah, I know.
And actually this is a reallyinteresting time.
For the menopause transitionbecause we actually have
research now and amazing.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I
Speaker 4 (40:35):
know.
It's imagine I love it.
And so there's so many more thanhalf the population that
experiences it,
Speaker 2 (40:40):
oh, I know.
It's, I know, it's crazy.
This is a soapbox we could go onfor sure.
when it comes to this menopausaltransition, we finally have
research.
It's not.
It's changing every day.
Yep.
But we know that when we'relooking at reds menopausal, or
people in the menopausetransition are very, susceptible
to reds because, they're tryingto restrict calories because of
(41:01):
weight gain.
Yeah.
And we have to look at it as theconstellation of symptoms.
So losing your period is a sign,it's actually.
If you've lost your period,you've, you are way past.
You've definitely been in redsfor a long time.
Yeah.
So we really shouldn't use thatas a sign.
So we can actually even takethat off the table.
It's the other things.
It's the, and unfortunately someof these symptoms are, symptoms
(41:25):
of, changes in your hormones,Because you're in the menopause
transition.
So it can get super convolutedand Exactly.
complicated.
But it is.
So brain fog is actually a signof reds, but it's a sign of.
the menopause transition, right?
Yep.
So it's just having somebody totalk to, again, this is where
you have that point of you needsomeone on your team.
Having someone to talk to, tolook at all those signs and
(41:48):
symptoms Yeah.
And also how you're performing
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And
Speaker 2 (41:51):
putting them together.
Yeah.
And seeing like how many ofthose risk factors do you have
and how many are maybe becauseof the hormones.
It's really, and again, this is,it depends, it's based on you
individually.
Speaker (42:02):
Yeah, and I think that's where it gets so
complicated, right?
Because, and that's one of thereasons that I wanna keep
talking about this becausetotally women don't understand
that it could be both.
some women are going throughthis and oh, it's probably just
perimenopause, and they getblown off by.
Their healthcare practitionersor whatever they're seeing on
social media, and they're like,I guess this is just
perimenopause, I gotta put upwith it.
(42:22):
And it's no.
And also you don't have to godirectly to hormone therapy
either, right?
Because then there's so much onsocial media right now about
hormone therapy.
Which can be a useful thing forsome women.
Yes.
And it has been demonized forthe past 20 years, and I'm glad
that we're talking about thismore and I'm glad that people
are seeing this as a usefuloption for them.
Yeah.
But that's not where you have togo right away, especially if
(42:44):
you're an athlete.
And this is one of the bigthings that I think it's
important for us to know asrunners.
Is that we are weirdos.
Oh my God, I love that.
we're not the generalpopulation, right?
No.
The general population issedentary.
Yes.
And unfortunately, the majorityof the general population is
overweight or obese.
(43:05):
That's not the runningpopulation.
And so the same rules don'tapply for us.
That's like the whole like eatlesson, move, more narrative
that has been propagated fordecades.
That's not what's right for usas runners.
Can you talk on that please?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Oh, there's so many places to go.
So many places.
Speaker (43:25):
I know.
This could be like a two ea, twohour podcast.
Easily.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
That's okay.
We like Rich Roll style.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
We should just, meet
Speaker 2 (43:31):
halfway.
Yeah.
And get
Speaker 5 (43:33):
some coffee and just record.
That could be like, it'll be aneight hour podcast, probably.
Perfect.
I've
Speaker (43:37):
got a, I've got a.
Seven hour drive to Tallahasseetomorrow.
So for the Hey, cross countrystate meet, we'll just start
recording.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
So when it comes to, women in the, in the menopause
transition, we do need to eat.
We need to eat, we need to fuelour body.
We need to eat before weexercise.
Stacey Sims talks so much aboutthis, and Celine Yeager.
The feisty network, they'rereally great when it comes to
education around menopause.
Yeah.
Especially, women who areexercisers.
(44:05):
And we know that fueling is oneof the number one things.
We are losing muscle mass.
Yeah.
And to combat that, we need toeat protein.
And, but also we need to eatcarbohydrates to fuel our body
to keep.
Going forward when it comes toendurance exercise and, bone
stress injuries are linked tonot enough carbohydrates and
(44:26):
bone stress injuries are verycommon in this, in our
population as well because ofthe caloric restriction.
And because if they had, if theywere restricting earlier in
life, if they were ever on, ifthey ever.
Or breastfeeding or if they everhad to, do IVF or any of those
things that changes how, how ourbones are and if they weren't
(44:48):
doing strength training early onin life.
So all of those things matterright now.
And yeah, we need to fuel ourbody.
We need to load our body, and weneed to make sure that we're
paying attention to all thesethings, but.
We don't wanna stress ourselvesout either.
Speaker (45:02):
exactly.
and that's where it getscomplicated, right?
Because it's oh my gosh, I haveto eat this and run this and
sleep this amount.
Like the, especially like withsocial media, it's like you've
got coming at you from allangles, right?
And it becomes more stress onyou too, right?
Like we, it.
Completely to sim We have tosimplify things too for people,
Speaker 2 (45:22):
and that's what I do.
So I it sounds like this isexactly what you're doing with
your clients.
Yeah.
But that's what I do with myclients as well, is I'm like,
okay, I know you've read allthis stuff and all of this
research is great and I'm soglad that we have it.
Speaker (45:34):
Yeah.
And that you're educated, let
Speaker 2 (45:35):
look at you.
Yes.
And you're educated, but let'slook at you.
Okay.
If you are spending all of thistime trying to, do all the
things you've read about andseen on Instagram, you're
actually making yourself worse.
Yeah.
Because you're so stressed out.
So let's pick one thing at atime.
Yep.
And start there.
Yeah.
let's do, okay.
Maybe you put some protein inyour coffee.
Some people don't like thatbecause it makes it like.
(45:55):
It's gross.
So don't do that then.
Or maybe you pick a certain kindof bar that you can grab before
you, before you eat, or I meanbefore you exercise instead of
planning a whole meal for thewhole week.
And trying to get that in.
So there are little changes youthat you can make that can
simplify it.
don't focus on all the things.
Focus on one thing at a time.
Speaker (46:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's so funny'causesome of my clients will come to
me and I tell them.
you need to run slower and eatmore.
And they're like, huh?
Yeah.
Wait, what?
I came to you'cause I wanna getfaster.
And I'm like, I know.
I understand yes, but likeyou're not eating enough to
support.
(46:34):
The goals that you have and thetraining that you wanna do, and
you're running all of your runstoo hard.
So you're just putting so muchstress on your body and not
giving yourself enough recovery.
So I actually need you to eatmore and slow down and take more
rest days.
And they're like, what ishappening right now?
Like it completely throws peopleoff because we have this
mentality of like more and more.
Like more is better, harder isbetter.
(46:56):
And I think that's such adestructive mentality.
Going back to our athleticidentity right at the beginning.
Nice.
that's a big piece of what wewere taught as athletes.
Whether or not you grew up as arunner or as a team sport
athlete.
like me, do doing ball sports.
It was like always give 110%, nopain, no gain.
And people try to apply thosesame things.
To their running especially totheir running in their forties,
(47:18):
fifties, and sixties.
And that just doesn't work.
Like it might be helpful everynow and then, like in the middle
of a race, right?
pull out that no pain, no gain,right?
get yourself that, that racetime that you want, but not on
your 10 mile easy run thatyou've got going on.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
No.
There is a place in time for youto push yourself and for you to
push yourself hard.
Absolutely.
There's no question, and I don'twant people to think that's not
what we're saying, like we wantyou to push yourself and reach
your goals, however, to getthere, a lot of times I spend my
day telling people to do less aswell.
Okay.
Back it off.
And then the most amazing partthough is when.
(47:55):
It works.
And yeah, and you can changethat mindset and you can show
the results.
So many people do PR when theygive themselves enough rest, And
they give themselves enoughfuel.
And it's the people, and weactually are seeing this on
Instagram.
Some of the professionalathletes now are talking about
that.
Like Emily Infield has beentalking recently a lot.
(48:16):
About how she's fueling her bodybetter and she's feeling better.
And so we just need more peopleto talk about the fact that
often you have to do less to dobetter.
Speaker (48:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh my goodness, this has been somuch fun.
It has.
I feel like I said, we couldjust keep going all day long,
but I wanna respect your timeand the time of our listeners.
So even though we've talkedabout lots of different fun
things today, is there anythingelse that you feel like we
haven't addressed that you wannaleave our listeners with before
we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I think we really did a good job of looking at go us
Yeah, go us of looking atrunners from like that holistic
standpoint.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think, we didn't talk a lotabout strength training or a lot
about biomechanics, but becausewe're both PTs, I think it can
be assumed that we do all thosethings.
And that those things are alsoimportant.
It's just we're having aconversation about all of these
(49:05):
other things because they're nottalked about and they're not
taken seriously.
Speaker (49:09):
Yeah.
I feel like that's a pretty goodreason to have you back on the
podcast.
Then we can talk about the moretechnical biomechanical stuff if
people want that too.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
That would be super fun actually.
Yeah, I was just doing thatyesterday.
That's awesome.
Speaker (49:20):
Yeah, our episode this past week was all about like
hips and single leg control.
'cause I don't always do a tonof that.
'cause I like to dig into someof these other topics that
people don't talk as much about,but.
that's, that part's importanttoo, right?
Yeah.
'cause we want you to be able topush yourself safely.
Yes.
And we want that when you dopush yourself for it to actually
be effective.
(49:40):
And if you're not addressing allof these other things, you're
just pushing yourself and you'renot getting the bang for your
buck, essentially.
Like you're just pushingyourself, but you're.
Either spinning your wheels oreven moving backwards in some
cases, and that's not what wewant.
We want you to be able to pushyourself and then see the good
results of that, and thatrequires a lot of this other
stuff we talked about.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
And so if you're going to do a lot of, or spend a
lot of time in the gym andworking on your single leg
strength and working on yourbiomechanics, it's wasteful if
you're not taking care of allthe other things first.
it's, I shouldn't say it'scompletely wasteful'cause you
will get some benefit from it.
But doing the things here whereyou're taking care of your body
Yeah.
Can only help the other thingsthat you're doing.
Speaker (50:19):
because there's so many times I've, people come to me
and they're like, I'm doing allthe things, but I'm not seeing
the results.
And I'm like, okay, let's take astep back then.
Yeah.
what are you doing?
How much are you doing?
How often are you doing it?
How much sleep are you getting?
Like all these other factorsthat we talk about because it's
very frustrating when it feelslike you're putting in the work
and you don't get the results.
And it's a lot of times thesethings that are maybe more
(50:39):
hidden that people don't alwaysrelate to their training, that
are playing some of the biggestroles in it.
Absolutely.
Kate, thank you so much forbeing here.
How can our listeners connectwith you if they want to learn
more from you or reach out?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Sure.
So you can go on my Instagram ormy website.
They're the same.
It's Kate Miek Edwards and mi isspelled M-I-H-E-V-C.
So it's kate mi edwards.com.
And then, that's my Instagramhandle and all of the things
that I do are on my.
Site because it's just easier toput'em all in one place.
Yeah,
Speaker (51:09):
exactly.
and we will link all of that inthe show notes as well.
So those of you that are runningor driving right now and didn't
have the time to write down thatmiddle name, you can probably
also search up Kate Edwards andPro probably find you as well.
Yeah.
But I could put running
Speaker 5 (51:22):
and running.
It'll probably come up justrunning and
Speaker (51:25):
Kate might even.
Exactly.
So we'll put all that in theshow notes though too so that
our listeners, can connect withyou.
Thank you so much for your time.
This has been so fun.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, this has been great, Angie.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker (51:35):
Me too.
All right.
Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
All.
Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast today.
(00:02):
I'm so excited to introduce youto Dr.
Kate Edwards.
She's a physical therapist,running medicine specialist,
researcher, and a key member ofthe multidisciplinary care team
for the Atlanta Track Clubelites.
The moment that Kate and I met,we clicked instantly.
She's just one of those peopleand those clinicians that
actually gets it, not just thephysical side of running, but
the emotional and psychologicallayers that most people never
(00:22):
talk about that you all know.
I'm.
So passionate here about on thepodcast, and that's exactly what
we're diving into today.
The concept of athleticidentity, what it means to see
yourself as a runner, how thatidentity can both empower you,
and how it can also become aslippery slope when running
becomes the only way that youdefine yourself.
We covered so many great topics.
We ta we talk about why so manyrunners struggle to call
(00:44):
themselves.
Real runners, why over 80% ofrunners get injured?
How stress and nervous systemload influence your, your
ability to train, and the uniquechallenges that women,
especially over 40 face withfueling hormones and
performance.
You guys are gonna love thisconversation with Kate.
We go way beyond biomechanics inour world as physical
therapists, and Kate even sharesher own powerful story of losing
(01:05):
her ability to run after alife-threatening event and how
she rebuilt her identity.
Her health and her relationshipwith running from the ground up.
So welcome Dr.
Kate Edwards to the show.
I'm so excited for you guys tohear it.
Let's dive in.
Speaker (01:41):
All right, runners.
Welcome to the show today.
I am so excited to have Dr.
Kate Edwards here with me.
What's up, Kate?
How are you?
I'm doing great, Angie.
How about you?
I'm fantastic.
I'm so excited for ourconversation.
So Kate and I have just metrecently, and she is also a
physical therapist that treatsrunners, and she and I just
connected immediately when westarted talking.
so we are gonna dive into somereally fun topics today.
(02:03):
But before we jump in, Kate,please introduce yourself to our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Sure.
So as you said, I am Dr.
Kate MHE Edwards, and I'm aphysical therapist and I
practice running medicine.
So what that means is I treatalmost exclusively runners at
this point, which is so fun, andI feel very lucky that's what I
can do.
So I own a running medicineclinic in the Atlanta area, and
I work with the Atlanta TrackClub elites on a
(02:29):
multidisciplinary team that Ihelp to build.
So that's also really greatbecause I get to work with all
different healthcare providersto really provide the best care
possible for our team.
And not a lot of people get thatkind of treatment.
So it's fun to be able to dothat.
And I.
They have a podcast and doresearch and really anything you
(02:50):
can think of that's related torunning except for coaching.
Actually, I don't coach runnersreally.
yeah, I don't coach runners.
but, everything else, like I, Ihave been a runner for a long
time and, I touch it in alldifferent ways.
Speaker (03:04):
I love that.
So how did you get intospecializing in runners?
because obviously you said youwere a runner, or you have been
a runner for years, but.
what made you have this specialinterest in going into running
medicine?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think it really was my love of running.
So running for me gave me somany things.
So it helped me be a betterperson.
It helped me, it taught mediscipline, it taught me drive,
it, helped me shape things whenI felt out of control.
Like the world around me wascrazy.
I loved a good trainingschedule.
(03:36):
it kept me on track.
So I think my experience withrunning and falling in love with
running made me realize that.
Somebody needed to treatrunners.
I was injured.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
in college and saw a physical therapist.
And then after that, when I wastraining for my first marathon,
my coach was a physicaltherapist.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And
Speaker 2 (03:56):
even though I went to school for something completely
different I loved what she did.
I saw how she interacted withpeople on the track.
I saw how she thought aboutthings differently than
everybody else that I really hadmet before.
And so I just.
started following her to worklove, love it, and showing up.
And she was wonderful.
And she let me do that.
And eventually that brought meto the idea that, okay, maybe
(04:17):
the career I thought I was goingto do is not going to happen.
And I'd rather be a physicaltherapist who treated runners.
Speaker (04:23):
I love that.
So how long had you beenrunning, like until, like when
you got to that point, did youstart in high school with kind
of cross country and take thetypical running path?
No.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So I went to such a small school that we didn't have
a cross country team.
Really?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yes.
Oh wow.
That is a small school.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It was very small.
So I ran all through highschool, but it was on my own.
It was in the middle of thecountry, down a dirt road.
I would run to town maybe, so Iwas running, but I, didn't have.
Formal training until college.
Okay.
Which was really interesting.
So I just, I ran and ran likefor Gump.
And then, and then I, my firstrace ever was a half marathon.
Speaker (05:02):
Wow.
You jumped right in feet first.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Sure did.
I didn't know any better.
Yeah.
And I think that's actually whathappens with a lot of runners is
they It's true.
Find it.
They don't really have astructured background in it.
And that's part of the reason Ithink injury occurs too.
Speaker (05:16):
Oh, 100%.
That's why, and I think that alot of runners do take that path
of okay, I'm just gonna startrunning.
And some runners, especiallywhen they get into it later in
life, they don't do the whole5K, 10 K, let's build up to
things.
It's I need to be in bettershape.
I'm gonna sign up for a halfmarathon or a marathon, or I've
got a friend that's running ahalf marathon.
That sounds interesting.
Let's do that.
Yeah.
And so they jump in thinking.
(05:38):
It's just running, right?
Like how many times have weheard that where it's oh, it's
just running.
Like I just need some pair ofshoes and I just head out the
door and go run.
And yes, even though we havebeen doing it for our whole
lives, since we were probably,what, two years old, a year and
a half or whenever we started tonot fall over when we started to
go a little faster.
Yeah, we've been doing it.
But in order to progress and doso at a level where you're
(06:01):
running faster or you're runninglonger or you're seeking some
sort of performance goals,that's a totally different
mindset.
And skillset.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes, absolutely.
The running, the running reportthat came out this year said
that 75% of runners coachthemselves.
Wow.
Speaker (06:17):
75%.
Yes.
75%.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And so that,'cause it seems
Speaker (06:21):
simple.
Like it's very accessible, whichis so fantastic.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's what we love about it, is that it's so
accessible.
It's such a great way to improveso many aspects of our health.
Absolutely.
Yet there is a part of it whichmost people don't realize, that
we really could benefit and dobenefit from structured
coaching.
We benefit from understandinghow our body works, And what
are, signs and symptoms ofovertraining and what.
(06:46):
Part of, how much does emotionaland mental health and stress
impact our actual physicalhealth?
So there's so many aspects ofit.
Yeah.
You don't realize when you justlace up your shoes and go out
the door.
And I certainly didn't realizethat.
Speaker (06:58):
Yeah.
In the
Speaker 2 (06:59):
beginning, which is why I ended up injured.
Speaker (07:01):
Yeah, I definitely didn't either.
And I think that, The big topicthat we're gonna talk about
today is athletic identity, andI'm super excited to dig into
this because I also didn't, likeI did, was not a cross country
runner.
I actually hated running.
So I, was played volleyball,basketball, and softball growing
up.
And running was the punishmentin all my sports, right?
So it's like you missed a serve,you did this, like you had to go
(07:23):
run for punishment.
So I had a very negative,perspective on running.
I really did not like it at alluntil I met my husband.
And he he was a runner.
He did the whole cross country,ran in college.
And, he showed me that it couldbe something different and it
could actually be something kindof fun.
But for a long time I just ran.
I would never call myself arunner.
I never wanted that identity orbelieved.
(07:44):
I think maybe not so much that Ididn't want it, but so much that
I didn't fully feel like Ideserved it.
that wasn't me, like runnerswere at this other level that I
was not on.
And what, that's one of thethings that I love helping
people with now is helping themunderstand that you.
Are a runner, right?
if you run, you're a runner.
If you go out and you train andyou run multiple times a week,
(08:05):
you are a runner regardless ofyour pace, regardless of your
distance, regardless of any ofthe baloney, you know how many
medals you have on your wall.
You're a runner.
And when you become a runner,you have to start thinking like
one.
And that kind of leads us into,what our topic of the day is,
which is athletic identity.
And I know this is a topic thatyou're passionate about too, and
I love that you take.
A multidisciplinary approachwith your runners and your
(08:27):
athletes.
So let's talk about athleticidentity.
what exactly is it?
this topic that we're talkingabout today.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So athletic identity is this idea of who you identify
as in the world, how yourepresent yourself in the world.
What values do you have?
Where do you see yourself insociety?
Yeah.
And so it's very big.
So if you're, it could bedifferent for everybody.
So sometimes CEOs, theiridentity is being a CEO or a
mom.
(08:55):
Stay-at-home mom, their identitymight be a stay-at-home mom.
For runners, it's often myidentity is a runner because
that's how I connect in theworld.
That's how I see my, the lens inwhich I see myself through.
Yeah.
And so when we see ourselvesthrough this lens, it can become
really big.
Like we might only eat based onour training schedule.
(09:17):
We might have, our wholewardrobe might be dedicated to
running.
It might be race shirts.
It might be the only shoes wewear are running shoes.
It might be.
the bag that we carry around,says a race that we did.
And what our social activity isdoing our long run on the
weekend and meeting ourgirlfriends for coffee.
One of my favorite Saturdays.
come on, let's be real.
(09:38):
No, it's lovely.
Yeah.
It's exactly right.
Yeah.
And so that is a strong athleticidentity when all of the things
in our life Are related to thesport in which we do.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah.
And
Speaker 2 (09:49):
it defines who we are.
And so it can be a really goodthing, or it can be a slippery
slope.
Speaker (09:55):
No, I 100% agree.
And it's funny because I feellike this is gonna be such like
a fun thing for us to talk aboutbecause I'm on the end of where
there's a lot of people that runbut don't identify as a runner,
even though they are doing a lotof the things that you describe,
right?
Like even though they're runningraces, even though they are
always buying new running shoesor these kinds of things, but in
(10:18):
their mind they've definedrunner as someone that's.
Faster, or someone that runsfurther or whatever it is that
they've defined runner as, andthey keep themself out of that
box.
And so stepping into thatathletic identity can be such a
game changer for those people.
And then there's the oppositeend of the spectrum, which is I
think where you work a lot withwhere.
(10:39):
Runner becomes your entireidentity.
Because we have so manydifferent identities as humans,
right?
I am a mother, I'm a wife, I ama runner, I am a coach, I am a,
physical therapist.
Like we, we have so manydifferent identities and all of
them do have their own lens,right?
I can put on my PT hat sometimesI need the PT hat, sometimes I
need my coaching hat.
(10:59):
And those things overlap, butthey're not always the same.
And I think that.
It becomes dangerous, it becomesthat more slippery slope like
you're talking about when runneror whatever it is, stay at home.
Mom becomes your full identitywhen you don't have anything
else outside of that,
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That's exactly right.
And so we know, the researchsays that people who have a
strong athletic identity Areable to push themselves harder
in training.
They're able to, Figure out howto put more work in when need,
when it needs to happen.
Yeah.
And often they can be moredriven towards that one goal.
So it's great and it's veryuseful to have a strong athletic
(11:35):
identity, especially for someonewho's an elite athlete per se.
Absolutely.
However, what happens is whenyou put all those eggs in one
basket, when you lose the thingthat you love Which could be
running, then you're lost.
And that the research also showsthat you become, you start to
spiral and you can end up inanxiety and depression.
(11:56):
And it really impacts yourrelationships in your life and
all of the things and parts ofyour life.
And so figuring out that kind ofmiddle ground.
I love how you, I actually saythe same thing a lot that you
just said about people who don'tidentify as runners.
I think that if you put shoes onand you run outside, you are a
runner.
And you're doing it.
(12:16):
And, it also is interesting tome a little bit, a side thing,
is that when we look at runningresearch.
It often asks people whoidentify as runners, but you're
missing out on all of theseother people who actually run.
And are runners, but they justdon't identify as it true.
So I think it can be reallyuseful if you're somebody that
runs to say, okay, I am arunner, and it gives you more
(12:37):
confidence.
As long as you keep all of thoseother things that you love
active outside of the sport.
Yeah.
And then if you are somebody whotruly identifies as just a
runner, you need to find toolsand fun things outside of your
sport that you can do that, thatallow you to be more than just a
runner so that if somethinghappens,
Speaker (12:58):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That you have something to fall back on.
Speaker (13:00):
Absolutely.
Because that's where injurybecomes very like even worse
than it already is, right?
because it stinks to be injured.
You're in pain.
It is physically uncomfortable,but then there's the whole
emotional side and Yes, and eventhis identity piece that goes
with it.
When you are, when you fullyidentify as a runner.
(13:23):
And you're injured and you'renot able to do the thing that
you love.
It's a lot of people are like,then what am I?
Or what am I supposed to do?
Because this is what I do.
if I don't go out for a run foran hour every day and a couple
hours on the weekends, I don'tknow what else to do with my
life.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right.
And so we had mentioned beforewe started recording that I, was
a big, marathon runner.
Yeah.
And I did triathlon.
And a year after I had my son, Iwas out for a training run and I
went into ventriculartachycardia and almost died.
Oh my gosh.
And.
I was very lucky that I didn't,my heart actually went back to a
(14:01):
normal rhythm on its own, whichis rare.
And it took about nine to 10months for them to diagnose me.
So during those nine to 10months, I was losing pieces of
myself the whole time.
So I was somebody that overidentified as a runner.
Yeah.
So I truly.
Put everything into it.
it's my job, still is my job.
(14:22):
Yeah.
And I love it, my friend group.
it was the way I managed stress.
Yeah.
It was the way I found worthself-worth for me.
Like the faster I ran, thebetter I felt about myself.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Sure.
The
Speaker 2 (14:33):
more races that I won, qualifying for Boston, all
of those things were reallyimportant to me.
And then it came to a pointwhere they, I nearly died doing
what I loved and it, I slowlylost the ability to do so over
nine or 10 months and I didn'tknow what to do.
And I went into depression and Iwent, had a lot of anxiety and I
(14:55):
had to have, yeah, a lot ofhelp, speak to somebody about
that.
a sports psychologist, andfigure out like, what is it that
I need to do here?
And through that process.
I learned a lot of differentthings.
I learned what it was like to bea patient, which I didn't love.
True.
And, yeah.
Which helped me be a betterprovider.
it does.
Yeah.
it absolutely does.
and so that was great from anoutcome standpoint, but terrible
(15:18):
in the moment.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (15:20):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Two, I learned that I needed to find something outside
of my sport and that helped meto teach my patients the same
thing.
So I learned that even though Ihated meditation, like really
hated it.
I really hated it because Icouldn't sit still.
Speaker (15:36):
Yeah.
was so many thoughts goingthrough your brain and you're
like, I'm just doing it wrong.
That's what's a waste of time's.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah.
Yes.
But what I learned is that ifyou sit down even for a minute,
you're winning.
So I started to think about it.
You're winning in terms of, oh,I'm winning when I meditate.
Yeah, because it's
Speaker (15:50):
the process.
It's not what's actuallyhappening.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That's right.
Yeah.
So I learned that and then therewere so many things I learned
along the way, going throughthat process that helped me as a
person and a patient, and itmade me realize and reflect
backwards that okay, my athleticidentity was so entrenched that
it was hurting me.
So I had to figure out adifferent plan.
Speaker (16:12):
Yeah.
So then what did you do?
I worked
Speaker 2 (16:15):
with a sports psychologist, which is really
helpful.
it was incredibly helpful.
And, but
Speaker (16:19):
how did you start to shift like that athletic
identity, right?
Like with the help of yoursports psychologist and the
meditation and all these otherthings.
if there's someone listening tothis podcast thinking to
themselves, oh goodness, thissounds like me.
What?
Would you suggest, like what's astarting point that, like how
were you able to start to shiftthat athletic identity from
being so entrenched as, I am arunner and this is everything in
(16:43):
my life to, okay.
You know what?
I can open myself up to otherthings here as well.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
it was really painful.
Yeah.
Because I had to try a lot ofthings.
Yeah.
Because nothing felt as good asrunning to me.
And nothing, I didn't want to doanything else.
So slowly over time it wastrying different things.
going to a yoga class.
My husband actually, we laughnow, but I would go to this yoga
class and they had a 30 daychallenge To see how many yoga
(17:09):
classes you could do in 30 days.
Oh wow.
And I was like, oh, I can't run,so I'm gonna win yoga.
I'm gonna win.
I'm gonna win at the yoga.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
So by the way, it turns out yoga is not about
winning.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Your yoga instructors are probably like, who is this
girl?
What is happening?
namaste lady.
come on, bring it down.
Bring it down.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
And now I'm actually really good friends with my yoga
instructor.
So funny.
And she really helped me throughthe whole transition.
Oh my gosh.
But I was like going to win atyoga instructor.
Oh my gosh.
How many yoga classes did youdo?
Oh my God.
I don't know.
I went multiple.
Oh, come on.
You didn't know.
No.
So I like two a day
Speaker 2 (17:52):
at least.
Sometimes it was three a day,and then if I missed a day,
Speaker 5 (17:56):
I was so upset because somebody else might beat
me.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Oh my God.
so I need a tissue right now.
I'm literally like crying herebecause this is so funny.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
and, but that's, it's funny because I actually know
that this is what my patientsdo.
Yeah, totally.
and so I understand.
yep.
And, yeah, I, it's thatcompetitive
Speaker (18:14):
mentality.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Exactly, and that was so I didn't lose the competitive
mentality.
and since then, I can run alittle bit.
I, but it's nothing like before.
Yeah.
So I still do yoga.
I strength train, I walk, but Irun once or twice a week.
And it has to be with somebody.
I have a rare genetic heartdisease and an implanted
defibrillator.
Okay.
Is what they found out.
But I can run, but I've foundother outlets.
(18:37):
my business actually became agreat outlet because now I have
two companies.
Of course, they're aboutrunning, so I'm still involved
in the world.
Still there.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah.
I'm
Speaker 2 (18:45):
still there and I still get to relate to my
people.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
But
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I do it in a different way.
And I get to help other peopledo this thing that they love.
Yeah.
And not everybody would be ableto do that.
That's very true.
Like some people, if they can'tdo it, they don't wanna be
around it.
And they can't get through that.
I worked really hard with asports psychologist about that,
and luckily I was able to Staywith it.
It's just in a different way.
And I had to reframe what Ithought it meant to be a runner.
(19:10):
And that was hard too, because Ithought, again, wrongfully, I
thought that being a runner was.
going to the Boston MarathonYeah.
And running 50 miles a week and,being really fast.
And a runner is somebody whoputs on their shoes and goes out
the door.
How did you make that shift?
Practice, practice over time anda lot of journaling about it.
(19:32):
A lot of talking about it, A lotof, reflecting on why Why did I
feel this way and why were thesemy beliefs?
Yeah.
And who put them there.
And then realizing that I did itto myself and it really wasn't
running's fault and it wasreally that I was trying to not
address other things in my lifeand I was using running.
(19:54):
And this isn't what everybodydoes, but I did.
Speaker (19:56):
But a lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (19:58):
A lot of people do.
Let's be honest, right?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
A lot of people do.
I was using running to avoidother things.
Speaker (20:04):
Yep.
Yeah.
And I think that whether it'savoiding.
Stress, whether it's avoidinguncomfortable conversations or
realizations that you might haveabout your life, whether it's
avoiding, talking about food oryour food obsession or food,
eating disorders.
there's a lot of things thatcan, that we can use Running
for, this is one of thedouble-edged swords I think of
(20:27):
running, right?
it can be so good for us in somany ways, but it can also, when
we There's a very fine linesometimes, right?
And we can flip over into whererunning can become a more toxic
type of thing in our life whenit's replacing other things,
when it becomes the only thingthat we can think about when we
(20:48):
are so devoted to that, that welose everything else in our
life.
And there's people, and I knowthat sounds extreme, especially
probably to a lot of listenersof this podcast, but.
It does happen, and I think it'simportant and whether or not
it's running for you, it couldbe something else, right?
There's people that usesomething and I think that's
(21:08):
where like part of what's comingup for me right now is like
addiction too.
Yeah.
There's a lot of people that userunning as a substitute for
addiction.
so they, which arguably is abetter thing, right?
if versus, drug addiction oraddiction to alcohol or
something like that.
Running is a quote unquotehealthier.
Obsession or addiction, but italso can become unhealthy,
(21:31):
right?
Like it's running can become anunhealthy thing physically,
mentally, emotionally,psychologically.
And that's, I don't think, noteverybody realizes that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, because so many people, I, it is a very common
thing for people who strugglewith alcoholism Yeah.
To pick running, and so allthey're doing again, it's better
for sure.
But what they're doing isthey're swapping this a, an
addictive thing for anotheraddictive thing.
And, and nobody wants to tell'emto stop because they realize
it's so much better and they'rein a better path, but Right.
(22:06):
But the thing that's missingthere is that talking with
somebody is working on thatpsychological or that mental
health aspect.
Yeah.
Which luckily mental health issomething we talk about now.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
But it, you have to decide to do it because you
might not be ready and you mightnot want to.
I wasn't.
Yeah.
I think
Speaker (22:22):
it, it's yeah, it's the whole idea of running is my
therapy.
Running is my therapy.
There's so many runners that saythat because they're, they don't
wanna talk about their problems,so they'll just run because
there is that dopamine andadrenaline and the things that
get released, right?
there are those good hormonesthat get released in our body
that make us feel better.
(22:42):
Yes.
At least temporarily, right?
Yes.
But it's not addressing theunderlying things, and that's
where it becomes moreproblematic.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
That's right.
And there was actually a couple,and I think this is what you're
referring to, a couple researchpapers that showed that running
can actually, mimic soantidepressants In a lot of
ways.
Correct.
and so people are like, oh, thisis great.
I can just do this.
And it doesn't mean you can runinstead of taking
antidepressants.
I think a lot of people, readthat paper in that way.
(23:10):
And that's not what was meant tobe said, I don't think.
because I think you do sometimesif you need them you can take
them.
But, I think it's reallyinteresting what running does
from that mental emotionalstandpoint and it's such a
lovely thing.
So I don't wanna get down onrunning in any way, because
obviously not at all.
Obviously we both love it.
It's just really, like you saidearlier, finding that fine line
of Okay.
What is it that I do need toaddress here, and am I ready to
Speaker (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
My husband, I think, wentthrough this too.
'cause he was a runner incollege and then kept getting
injured and so he had to quitthe team because he just was in
a chronic injury.
It just wasn't working out rightbecause of the college load that
he was in and whatnot.
So then it was like he wentthrough so many different
identity shifts with this goingfrom collegiate competitive
(23:55):
runner into, okay, now.
I'm running on my own, what doesthat look like?
running, so this block aftercollege of okay, I like running,
but do I still wanna be doingit?
At what level do I wanna bedoing it?
And then we had kids, right?
And then it's okay, now I'm adad and a runner, right?
There's all these differenttransitions and shifts, even in
his running journey that is muchdifferent than mine.
(24:17):
But we have to kind oftransition and figure out how
running fits in with us atdifferent phases in our life.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes.
And if we're, and if we'rehealthy about it, yeah.
Then that makes it easierbecause they're like, oh, okay.
It's not everything, but it'ssomething that really supports
me and bolsters me.
Yeah.
So I'm going to find time forit.
However, I'm not going to,obsess about it, so it impacts
the rest of my life negatively.
Speaker (24:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And One of the big pieces of allof this, I think, too, and one
of the reasons we're talkingabout identity is its
relationship to injury, right?
Yeah.
Because runners, unfortunately,what is it?
Over 80% of runners get injured.
Yeah.
And those statistics depend onwhich study you're looking at.
vary, but I like to just sayover 80% because it is.
A wildly high number that is howmany runners get injured.
(25:03):
And touching back on what westarted the conversation with
earlier, why does that happen?
Like why are runners gettinginjured?
And I would love to hear yourperspective on this,'cause
obviously I have my own, but,why do so many runners get
injured?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So I think everybody's trying to find this
one reason why runners getinjured.
So I had said to you, thisrecent paper that came out was a
great, it's actually anincredible paper to come out.
And something that we learnedfrom where it's talking about
that if you increase one run aweek by more than 10% Yeah.
Then you're at higher risk forinjury versus overall.
that 10 or 15% overall in theweek.
(25:41):
And when that paper came out, Iwas excited and also.
terrified because all of asudden everybody was saying, oh,
we can get rid of the 10% rule.
It's just this one run Thatimpacts our injury rate.
and I, I.
No.
Sat with it for such a long timeand I, and, but I heard so many
people talking about it andsaying that on podcasts and in
(26:04):
the, in our running world.
Yep.
So what does running injury, howdoes running injury happen?
Yes.
That's one one thing.
That's one thing.
That's about actual trainingload.
Yeah.
And how we load the body andyes, that can impact injury.
We see that in the research.
But right.
Running is multifactorial, likerunning injury is
multifactorial, which means it,IM is impacted by our stress,
(26:27):
how much we sleep, whether ornot we're eating enough.
Timing of our nutrition
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yep.
Is
Speaker 2 (26:33):
important.
It's about, strength andresilience and consistency.
And, how, so how we look at ourentire week, it's about have we
had a previous injury before anddid we rehab it appropriately?
And all of these things matterwhen it comes to running injury.
And that's why it's 80% of thepopulation.
(26:54):
Because even though we'relooking for one quick fix, there
isn't one.
it can be any of these things.
It can be related to shoes.
It could, so it's a really hardquestion, why do we, why are we
run or why are we injured?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But the reason is it's different for everybody.
It's individual and it'smultifactorial.
Speaker (27:13):
Yeah.
But.
Kate, nobody likes nuance.
Come on.
that's not, Instagram worthy,right?
Like I know it depends.
actually, right?
Like everybody, and that's, butthat's the culture that we're
in.
I think that's the problem,right?
Everybody wants to point to onething.
Everybody wants to know theanswer when there's not one
answer.
There's not one answer for oneperson, let alone one answer for
(27:37):
every person.
Like even if you look at onerunner, it's not like there was
one reason that runner gotinjured.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Oh, no, absolutely not.
In
Speaker (27:46):
that one runner, there's probably multiple
things, at least a handful ofreasons that led to that injury
and probably a handful of Weeksand months and years and God
knows how, you know how longYes.
Leading up to that injury too.
And I think so many peopleforget to address these things.
And this is one of the bigthings that like will get me
(28:06):
going, put me on a soapboxbecause it's like, me too.
They're as physical therapistsor as special as medical
professionals.
We are often told to stay in ourlane, right?
Yes.
We are told that this is yourzone of practice.
You treat movement, you treatthe body, you prescribe
(28:27):
exercise, and I'm like, y'allthat.
It's not that simple.
We know, and I'm sure you haveplenty of athletes that have
just come into your clinic timeafter time with the same darn
thing because they're notaddressing.
The other things that are atplay here, sure, we can give you
calf raises and calf stretchesand some clamshells and like the
(28:49):
exercises that you need tostrengthen the muscles.
But if you're not eating enough,if you're not getting enough
sleep, it doesn't matter howmany exercises you're doing,
you're still gonna be gettinginjured.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
100%.
Yeah.
And as physical therapists, ournumber one thing that we say is,
it depends.
And people hate it so much.
I know.
I know.
And I say it every time I teach.
Yeah.
I say it all the time.
But it's true.
It really does depend.
And it's so much messier.
Look at, humans are messy.
Our emotions are messy.
Our movement's messy.
We're just messy.
(29:20):
And that's what injury is.
Yeah.
And we just have to accept it.
And yes.
it could be your biomechanics,it could be your strength.
Yep.
It could be your mobility andhow your training load.
All of those things areimportant.
And those are all things I'mgoing to address with you as a
physical therapist.
But that doesn't matter ifyou're not meeting your basic
needs.
(29:40):
It just doesn't, and it's noteasy to address your basic
needs.
It's not easy to do the thingsthat it takes sometimes.
But we have to decide is itworth it?
Speaker (29:50):
absolutely.
and tying this back into.
Our athletic identity.
a big piece of injury is stressmanagement.
Yes.
And what's going on with ournervous system?
Because like your nervous systemwill regulate how your body's
able to shift over into recoverymode.
So if you are just overloadingthe body day after day with
training or.
(30:11):
Restricting your food or notgetting enough sleep or just a
lot of stress.
because I think that a lot ofrunners also see running as
stress relief.
They see it.
Yeah.
Some people say it's therapy,but almost pro.
I would say almost every runner,like I don't like to make too
many generalizations, but mostrunners I think will tell you
that running provides stressrelief and it does.
(30:33):
It totally does.
Yes.
But what they don't realize.
Is that if you're going out andrunning the majority or all of
your runs, in some cases at aneffort level, that's too high.
If you don't understand,training by effort level and
understanding how important easyruns are and those kinds of
things, and you're going out andyou're just pushing yourself
every day.
(30:54):
You might feel better rightafter the run because of the
stress relief, because of thehormones that we talked about
before with the serotonin andthe dopamine and those kinds of
things that get released.
But overall, you're increasingyour stress load on the body,
which is then getting you closerto injury, which is then gonna
put you in the direction thatyou don't wanna go.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And if you think about it, I always say stress is
stress.
Yeah.
So your body can't tell thedifference between a 20 mile
run.
And if you are having financialtrouble, or if you're moving, or
even if it's good stress, likeyou're getting married, your
body doesn't know thedifference.
So we have, like I always say,you have a bucket and you put
your mental stress.
In there, you put your emotionalstress in there.
(31:35):
And you put your physical stressin there and that physical
stress is what you talked about,like your actual training And
the load on the body.
But at some point it's going tooverflow.
Yep.
And when it overflows, itdoesn't matter which one of
those stresses you put in thebucket.
It just matters that itoverflowed.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yep.
And
Speaker 2 (31:51):
that's what we're really talking about.
And then there's this otherpiece of putting stress on
yourself to complete yourtraining schedule.
So if we are told, a lot oftimes, if we say, okay, my coach
said I have to run five timesthis week, and you've got all
these things going on in yourlife, in that fifth run, you're
stressing about getting it in.
Yeah.
Now, is it useful?
(32:11):
I don't know.
Probably not, because now you'veadded so much mental and
emotional stress into thatbucket.
that physical stress might throwyou over the edge.
So when we're looking at runninginjury, we're looking at all of
those things.
And we're looking at not in oneday, we're looking at three
weeks, six weeks, 12 weeksbefore that.
And how it's all, accumulating.
Speaker (32:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm smiling because I use theexact same analogy with I love
it.
All of my.
All of my athletes, my stressbucket, like all of my clients
will tell you.
they'll tell you about thestress bucket.
'cause that's one of the bestthings I think, And we have to
figure out how to poke holes inthe bucket.
We need to figure out how torelieve the stress before it
overflows, because the overflowis what's gonna lead to the pain
(32:51):
and the injury in the burnoutthat so many people experience.
I think that this is one of thereasons why it's so important
that we as healthcare providersand running coaches and even
just, even if you don't have aprofessional that you're working
with, which why don't you firstof all like work with a coach or
a physical therapist or somebodylike you.
(33:12):
You need people on your team,Yes.
Why it's so important for us totreat the person as a whole
rather than just the body part.
Right?
People are like, oh, whatexercises can you give me for my
Achilles issue?
And I'm like, it's not thatsimple.
sure, I could give you somestuff, but if I just give you
exercises and we don't addressthe whole thing, yeah, the
likelihood of that coming backis very high.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Exactly.
So we know that eccentricloading of the achilles tendon
is really important.
And improves the outcomes ofAchilles tendinopathy.
But then also, what about, likeyou said, the nervous system?
So I think about when I eventalk about like neural mobility
in the body, I still think ofthat as, okay, that's neural
mobility, but.
That nerve runs through thethoracic spine.
(33:54):
The thoracic spine, and itsimpact on breathing.
So we think about the mechanicalstimulus of breathing, but then
also the vagus nerve.
Yes.
And then what's happening?
so it all is related and it'sjust we've tried, I think in the
medical world what's happened isthings have been divvied.
All over the place For so long.
Yeah.
That it's become tunnel vision.
(34:14):
And when it's tunnel vision, andlike you said earlier, we have
to, stay in our lane.
yeah.
We do have to stay in our laneto some extent.
But a lot of it overlaps.
Like lifestyle medicine rightnow is what we do as physical
therapists.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker (34:29):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think that It isinteresting, and I think that is
one of the breakdowns of themedical system, the Western
medical system, is that theyhave, on one hand it's very
good, right?
Because we have all thesespecializations, we've got
orthopedic surgeons, and we'vegot, neuro neurologists and all
sorts of amazing people that areexperts in what they do.
(34:49):
But I think that we're, that ina way makes it even worse
because.
Even those specialists, when yougo see them, they just will,
sometimes they won't, not, won'teven recognize that there's
something else going on becausethey just wanna do the surgery
and other times they'll justrefer you and then people are
just going from this doctor tothis doctor trying to figure it
all out and they just needsomebody or something to help
(35:12):
them bring it all together.
And I think, that was always mygoal as a clinician.
It still is my goal always as aclinician is helping them see
how all these pieces fittogether and how.
The other things in their lifeare really impacting their
recovery.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I think that's what I do best.
Yeah.
Is just absolutely being the onewho's driving it and looking at
everything and bringing ittogether and Yeah.
If I need to refer someone'causeI work multidisciplinary teams
all the time.
I love that.
and I will refer, but first I'mgoing to look at the big picture
and say I'm not just gonna sendthem to somebody to send them,
I'm gonna send them because theyhave X, Y, and z.
(35:47):
That means they need to seethem.
so I, I think that's a reallyimportant piece and that's what,
I do well in my clinic doeswell, and I think actually that
the idea of running medicine, sopeople don't really know that
it's fairly new.
So I had to explain it the otherday to an agent, a running
agent, and so I was like, okay,running medicine is Orthopedics,
but for runners, but unlikeorthopedics, we zoom out.
(36:11):
And we look at the big picture.
Yeah.
Put all the pieces together sothat we can figure out this
injury in front of us.
Speaker (36:17):
I love that.
And so who do you have on yourmultidisciplinary team?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, so it depends.
So for the Atlanta Track ClubElite, so we have a sports
psychologist, a sportsdietician.
We have the running coach, wehave director of high
performance, we have achiropractor, we have physical,
my whole physical therapy team.
And we have two physicians, afemale physician and a male
physician.
Both are, one is primary sportsmed and the other is sports med
(36:43):
and orthopedics.
So it's really cool because weactually talk every Wednesday.
and go through how can we helpall of our athletes.
I love that in different ways.
And so we actually just startedthis year, our initiative was to
really initiate red screeningfrom the get go and have
everybody go through.
Specific Red's testing.
(37:03):
Yeah.
And we are tracking all of ourinjuries and, red's information
in the front.
And we're looking at, and we'reusing the Red CAT two, which is
just a que like basically asystem and how to, how to decide
if runners are at risk.
And it's a red light, greenlight system.
Oh,
Speaker (37:18):
fun.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
So it makes it pretty easy because you can say, okay,
these athletes are in theyellow, these are in the orange,
these are in the red or thegreen.
And who do we need to follow andwhat changes do we need to make
before they get injured?
Speaker (37:31):
I love that.
Can you just, you were talkingabout reds.
Can you just explain that forthe listeners in case there's
anyone that's unfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So relative energy deficiency in sport.
And so essentially what it is,it's a constellation of symptoms
that impact all of your bodysystems.
So what happens a lot of timepeople get lost in the medical
system because they have GIissues, they're having a hard
time.
Sleeping.
Yep.
Their performance maybe is, isimpacted.
They are, maybe they have a bonestress injury and all of these
(38:00):
things can fall under reds andcan be signs and symptoms of
reds.
But if you don't understandthat's a possibility, then what
happens is you get shiftedaround and sent to a lot of
different people.
So reds is really.
it can be a diagnosis ofexclusion, but that's why
looking for it early on andnoticing any signs and symptoms
help us to prevent on On the, onthe backend.
(38:23):
Yeah.
And a lot of times we talkabout, for female athletes their
cycle.
So if you've lost your cycle,that is a huge indicator that
you're far into reds already.
Speaker (38:33):
Yeah.
So reds is relative energydeficiency in sport.
How do we.
what does that mean exactly forpeople that are maybe, oh,
sorry.
No, it's okay.
Like I just wanna like reallybreak it down to a simple level
is
Speaker 2 (38:47):
No, I'm glad.
Sorry, what?
What
Speaker (38:48):
leads to relative energy deficiency?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Low energy is, has to do with nutrition specifically.
Yeah.
So not getting enough caloriesis really where it starts.
So when you don't fuel your bodyappropriately And then it starts
to set off a cascade of issues,when it comes to your hormones
and your endocrine system andthe rest of your systems.
Yeah.
In your body.
So it's really about.
Getting enough fuel and timingyour, is also timing your fuel
(39:13):
appropriately because there issome research that says that if
you, even if you're eatingenough calories in total, if
you're not timing them aroundyour exercise, you're also at
risk for reds.
Speaker (39:25):
Okay.
When you say timing aroundexercise, you mean before,
after, or both?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (39:30):
Yeah.
and also carbs.
So it's getting, say that again.
And also carbs.
Carbs, yeah.
And making chicken.
carbs are your friend as arunner, right?
Yeah.
To take this one step further,right?
Knowing that losing your cycleis one of the hallmark signs of
reds, that really starts topoint us more in that direction
when it comes to females.
But I work a lot with women over40.
Yeah.
And we're getting intoperimenopause and Yes, post
(39:52):
menopause, right?
And so they are losing theircycle just because it's that
time, right?
Like it's that time of our life,right?
Where that's what's happening.
We've got our estrogen levelsdeclining, we've got, things
going on hormonally.
Because of that.
How do we know if is, if, isthis perimenopause, is this
reds, like what's going on here?
(40:12):
and how important is fueling inperimenopause and menopause?
Because there's a lot of women,that start gaining weight
because of these hormonalchanges, especially around the
belly.
And what's the first thing theydo?
Restrict calories.
Restrict their diet.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Exactly.
Yeah, I know.
And actually this is a reallyinteresting time.
For the menopause transitionbecause we actually have
research now and amazing.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I
Speaker 4 (40:35):
know.
It's imagine I love it.
And so there's so many more thanhalf the population that
experiences it,
Speaker 2 (40:40):
oh, I know.
It's, I know, it's crazy.
This is a soapbox we could go onfor sure.
when it comes to this menopausaltransition, we finally have
research.
It's not.
It's changing every day.
Yep.
But we know that when we'relooking at reds menopausal, or
people in the menopausetransition are very, susceptible
to reds because, they're tryingto restrict calories because of
(41:01):
weight gain.
Yeah.
And we have to look at it as theconstellation of symptoms.
So losing your period is a sign,it's actually.
If you've lost your period,you've, you are way past.
You've definitely been in redsfor a long time.
Yeah.
So we really shouldn't use thatas a sign.
So we can actually even takethat off the table.
It's the other things.
It's the, and unfortunately someof these symptoms are, symptoms
(41:25):
of, changes in your hormones,Because you're in the menopause
transition.
So it can get super convolutedand Exactly.
complicated.
But it is.
So brain fog is actually a signof reds, but it's a sign of.
the menopause transition, right?
Yep.
So it's just having somebody totalk to, again, this is where
you have that point of you needsomeone on your team.
Having someone to talk to, tolook at all those signs and
(41:48):
symptoms Yeah.
And also how you're performing
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And
Speaker 2 (41:51):
putting them together.
Yeah.
And seeing like how many ofthose risk factors do you have
and how many are maybe becauseof the hormones.
It's really, and again, this is,it depends, it's based on you
individually.
Speaker (42:02):
Yeah, and I think that's where it gets so
complicated, right?
Because, and that's one of thereasons that I wanna keep
talking about this becausetotally women don't understand
that it could be both.
some women are going throughthis and oh, it's probably just
perimenopause, and they getblown off by.
Their healthcare practitionersor whatever they're seeing on
social media, and they're like,I guess this is just
perimenopause, I gotta put upwith it.
(42:22):
And it's no.
And also you don't have to godirectly to hormone therapy
either, right?
Because then there's so much onsocial media right now about
hormone therapy.
Which can be a useful thing forsome women.
Yes.
And it has been demonized forthe past 20 years, and I'm glad
that we're talking about thismore and I'm glad that people
are seeing this as a usefuloption for them.
Yeah.
But that's not where you have togo right away, especially if
(42:44):
you're an athlete.
And this is one of the bigthings that I think it's
important for us to know asrunners.
Is that we are weirdos.
Oh my God, I love that.
we're not the generalpopulation, right?
No.
The general population issedentary.
Yes.
And unfortunately, the majorityof the general population is
overweight or obese.
(43:05):
That's not the runningpopulation.
And so the same rules don'tapply for us.
That's like the whole like eatlesson, move, more narrative
that has been propagated fordecades.
That's not what's right for usas runners.
Can you talk on that please?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Oh, there's so many places to go.
So many places.
Speaker (43:25):
I know.
This could be like a two ea, twohour podcast.
Easily.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
That's okay.
We like Rich Roll style.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
We should just, meet
Speaker 2 (43:31):
halfway.
Yeah.
And get
Speaker 5 (43:33):
some coffee and just record.
That could be like, it'll be aneight hour podcast, probably.
Perfect.
I've
Speaker (43:37):
got a, I've got a.
Seven hour drive to Tallahasseetomorrow.
So for the Hey, cross countrystate meet, we'll just start
recording.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
So when it comes to, women in the, in the menopause
transition, we do need to eat.
We need to eat, we need to fuelour body.
We need to eat before weexercise.
Stacey Sims talks so much aboutthis, and Celine Yeager.
The feisty network, they'rereally great when it comes to
education around menopause.
Yeah.
Especially, women who areexercisers.
(44:05):
And we know that fueling is oneof the number one things.
We are losing muscle mass.
Yeah.
And to combat that, we need toeat protein.
And, but also we need to eatcarbohydrates to fuel our body
to keep.
Going forward when it comes toendurance exercise and, bone
stress injuries are linked tonot enough carbohydrates and
(44:26):
bone stress injuries are verycommon in this, in our
population as well because ofthe caloric restriction.
And because if they had, if theywere restricting earlier in
life, if they were ever on, ifthey ever.
Or breastfeeding or if they everhad to, do IVF or any of those
things that changes how, how ourbones are and if they weren't
(44:48):
doing strength training early onin life.
So all of those things matterright now.
And yeah, we need to fuel ourbody.
We need to load our body, and weneed to make sure that we're
paying attention to all thesethings, but.
We don't wanna stress ourselvesout either.
Speaker (45:02):
exactly.
and that's where it getscomplicated, right?
Because it's oh my gosh, I haveto eat this and run this and
sleep this amount.
Like the, especially like withsocial media, it's like you've
got coming at you from allangles, right?
And it becomes more stress onyou too, right?
Like we, it.
Completely to sim We have tosimplify things too for people,
Speaker 2 (45:22):
and that's what I do.
So I it sounds like this isexactly what you're doing with
your clients.
Yeah.
But that's what I do with myclients as well, is I'm like,
okay, I know you've read allthis stuff and all of this
research is great and I'm soglad that we have it.
Speaker (45:34):
Yeah.
And that you're educated, let
Speaker 2 (45:35):
look at you.
Yes.
And you're educated, but let'slook at you.
Okay.
If you are spending all of thistime trying to, do all the
things you've read about andseen on Instagram, you're
actually making yourself worse.
Yeah.
Because you're so stressed out.
So let's pick one thing at atime.
Yep.
And start there.
Yeah.
let's do, okay.
Maybe you put some protein inyour coffee.
Some people don't like thatbecause it makes it like.
(45:55):
It's gross.
So don't do that then.
Or maybe you pick a certain kindof bar that you can grab before
you, before you eat, or I meanbefore you exercise instead of
planning a whole meal for thewhole week.
And trying to get that in.
So there are little changes youthat you can make that can
simplify it.
don't focus on all the things.
Focus on one thing at a time.
Speaker (46:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's so funny'causesome of my clients will come to
me and I tell them.
you need to run slower and eatmore.
And they're like, huh?
Yeah.
Wait, what?
I came to you'cause I wanna getfaster.
And I'm like, I know.
I understand yes, but likeyou're not eating enough to
support.
(46:34):
The goals that you have and thetraining that you wanna do, and
you're running all of your runstoo hard.
So you're just putting so muchstress on your body and not
giving yourself enough recovery.
So I actually need you to eatmore and slow down and take more
rest days.
And they're like, what ishappening right now?
Like it completely throws peopleoff because we have this
mentality of like more and more.
Like more is better, harder isbetter.
(46:56):
And I think that's such adestructive mentality.
Going back to our athleticidentity right at the beginning.
Nice.
that's a big piece of what wewere taught as athletes.
Whether or not you grew up as arunner or as a team sport
athlete.
like me, do doing ball sports.
It was like always give 110%, nopain, no gain.
And people try to apply thosesame things.
To their running especially totheir running in their forties,
(47:18):
fifties, and sixties.
And that just doesn't work.
Like it might be helpful everynow and then, like in the middle
of a race, right?
pull out that no pain, no gain,right?
get yourself that, that racetime that you want, but not on
your 10 mile easy run thatyou've got going on.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
No.
There is a place in time for youto push yourself and for you to
push yourself hard.
Absolutely.
There's no question, and I don'twant people to think that's not
what we're saying, like we wantyou to push yourself and reach
your goals, however, to getthere, a lot of times I spend my
day telling people to do less aswell.
Okay.
Back it off.
And then the most amazing partthough is when.
(47:55):
It works.
And yeah, and you can changethat mindset and you can show
the results.
So many people do PR when theygive themselves enough rest, And
they give themselves enoughfuel.
And it's the people, and weactually are seeing this on
Instagram.
Some of the professionalathletes now are talking about
that.
Like Emily Infield has beentalking recently a lot.
(48:16):
About how she's fueling her bodybetter and she's feeling better.
And so we just need more peopleto talk about the fact that
often you have to do less to dobetter.
Speaker (48:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh my goodness, this has been somuch fun.
It has.
I feel like I said, we couldjust keep going all day long,
but I wanna respect your timeand the time of our listeners.
So even though we've talkedabout lots of different fun
things today, is there anythingelse that you feel like we
haven't addressed that you wannaleave our listeners with before
we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I think we really did a good job of looking at go us
Yeah, go us of looking atrunners from like that holistic
standpoint.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think, we didn't talk a lotabout strength training or a lot
about biomechanics, but becausewe're both PTs, I think it can
be assumed that we do all thosethings.
And that those things are alsoimportant.
It's just we're having aconversation about all of these
(49:05):
other things because they're nottalked about and they're not
taken seriously.
Speaker (49:09):
Yeah.
I feel like that's a pretty goodreason to have you back on the
podcast.
Then we can talk about the moretechnical biomechanical stuff if
people want that too.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
That would be super fun actually.
Yeah, I was just doing thatyesterday.
That's awesome.
Speaker (49:20):
Yeah, our episode this past week was all about like
hips and single leg control.
'cause I don't always do a tonof that.
'cause I like to dig into someof these other topics that
people don't talk as much about,but.
that's, that part's importanttoo, right?
Yeah.
'cause we want you to be able topush yourself safely.
Yes.
And we want that when you dopush yourself for it to actually
be effective.
(49:40):
And if you're not addressing allof these other things, you're
just pushing yourself and you'renot getting the bang for your
buck, essentially.
Like you're just pushingyourself, but you're.
Either spinning your wheels oreven moving backwards in some
cases, and that's not what wewant.
We want you to be able to pushyourself and then see the good
results of that, and thatrequires a lot of this other
stuff we talked about.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
And so if you're going to do a lot of, or spend a
lot of time in the gym andworking on your single leg
strength and working on yourbiomechanics, it's wasteful if
you're not taking care of allthe other things first.
it's, I shouldn't say it'scompletely wasteful'cause you
will get some benefit from it.
But doing the things here whereyou're taking care of your body
Yeah.
Can only help the other thingsthat you're doing.
Speaker (50:19):
because there's so many times I've, people come to me
and they're like, I'm doing allthe things, but I'm not seeing
the results.
And I'm like, okay, let's take astep back then.
Yeah.
what are you doing?
How much are you doing?
How often are you doing it?
How much sleep are you getting?
Like all these other factorsthat we talk about because it's
very frustrating when it feelslike you're putting in the work
and you don't get the results.
And it's a lot of times thesethings that are maybe more
(50:39):
hidden that people don't alwaysrelate to their training, that
are playing some of the biggestroles in it.
Absolutely.
Kate, thank you so much forbeing here.
How can our listeners connectwith you if they want to learn
more from you or reach out?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Sure.
So you can go on my Instagram ormy website.
They're the same.
It's Kate Miek Edwards and mi isspelled M-I-H-E-V-C.
So it's kate mi edwards.com.
And then, that's my Instagramhandle and all of the things
that I do are on my.
Site because it's just easier toput'em all in one place.
Yeah,
Speaker (51:09):
exactly.
and we will link all of that inthe show notes as well.
So those of you that are runningor driving right now and didn't
have the time to write down thatmiddle name, you can probably
also search up Kate Edwards andPro probably find you as well.
Yeah.
But I could put running
Speaker 5 (51:22):
and running.
It'll probably come up justrunning and
Speaker (51:25):
Kate might even.
Exactly.
So we'll put all that in theshow notes though too so that
our listeners, can connect withyou.
Thank you so much for your time.
This has been so fun.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, this has been great, Angie.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker (51:35):
Me too.
All right.
Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
All.
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