October 16, 2025 • 44 mins
What if the biggest risk you can take is finally believing in yourself—and building sustainable wealth without burnout through aligned money, mindset, and empowerment?🔗 Connect with Megan HaleWebsite: https://dreammoney.co/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meganhaleco/?hl=enDitch the spreadsheets and guilt — in 90 days you’ll own your money and build a life you love: https://lisachastain.com/the-ultimate...Unleash Your Capacity: Where women rise, heal, and take their seat in power. Join me & Melissa Blynn in San Clemente for the ultimate embodiment experience: https://lisachastain.com/uyc/Find and follow Lisa Chastain:Website: https://lisachastain.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/savvymoneywithlisa/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/savvymoneywithlisa
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Only 7% of women and them owned businesses make over $250,000 a
year gross. Because so much was on my
shoulders that I had to take care.
Of I honestly believe that hustle culture needs to die
altogether. There was a lot of guilt around.
I really literally only have 10 hours a week to work.
(00:21):
What happens when a woman decides to stop chasing the
grind and start designing wealthon her own terms?
Megan Hale didn't just reject hustle culture.
She created a blueprint for aligning business growth rooted
in ease, integrity, and profit. This is a story for every woman
who's ready to disrupt how we build wealth and do business
differently. Megan Hale is my guest today.
(00:43):
She is a fierce advocate for doing business in a way that
honors both wealth and well-being.
She's the creator of the Dream Money Method and App and a
former psychotherapist turned business strategist.
Megan knows her shit when it comes to money and building
dreams. She helps women shift from
hustle to alignment and build businesses that are both
(01:03):
profitable and fulfilling. She's not just teaching
strategy, she's disrupting how women create power in business.
And if you're looking to make big changes in your business and
know exactly the steps that you need to take in order to do
that, this is the show for you. Let's get started.
(01:25):
You're incredible. So are you?
Thank you. The work that you're doing is
incredible. Thank you.
You wear lots of hats in life. The hat that we're going to lean
into though is Fintech creator and how you have progressed in
your own journey from psychotherapist to life coach to
business coach, which which you still are doing some life
(01:47):
coaching and business coaching. And then also you, you at some
point had an AHA where you were like, this isn't enough and we
need a technology and we need toget out of spreadsheets.
And so you took this on and I'm so grateful that you did.
And so introducing to you Megan Hale of DREAM MONEY.
Welcome to REAL MONEY. Thank you for having me, I'm so
excited to be here. I know.
(02:08):
I'm really, really grateful thatyou're here.
I am a member of Dream Money. I'm so excited to sink my teeth
into this technology. My money personality.
If you don't know your money personality, go to
lisachastain.com/quiz. My money personality is a
dreamer. I think big.
I'm loving this already. Yes, I think big.
(02:31):
I dream big, I go big. I take butt pucker risks in my
business and and here is why we are here today, Megan, because
we are both we had this conversation.
You were like who? We kind of did like a little
date at 1st and I was like, well, who are you?
And you're like, well, who are you?
And I was like, oh, you're cool.This is kind of how girls how we
make friends now, right? It does.
(02:53):
And then I was like, well, I'm on a mission to have women
become the leaders of the world financially.
You said I'm on the mission for that too.
We're doing it in our own ways. And here's why.
We know women are climbing the ranks financially.
More money is coming to more women this decade, more than
ever before. And yet only 7% of women and fem
(03:15):
owned businesses make over $250,000 a year gross.
Not take. Not take home and Less than 10%
of female coaches earn more than$100,000 a year.
I've seen that statistic too, which is so hard to see.
It is I I see that as opportunity. 100%.
(03:40):
That the the lion's share is outthere for us, and as lionesses,
it's time for us to go get it. You're saying all my favorite
words. I'm a Leo over here.
Yes, we're in Leo. I think we're still in Leo
season too. We're in Leo season, yes.
Yes, so smart business design, confident business leadership,
financial education. This is way more than APL. 100%.
(04:05):
Way more and the dreamer in me is like PL's are kind of boring
because where is all of this going?
Yes. And I would say too for
entrepreneurs like PL's are madefor tax professionals, Yes, and
finance professionals there it'snot a lot of helpful data for
entrepreneurs to make strategic decisions.
What is the helpful data? Yeah.
What is the helpful data? Exactly.
It's great to know where your money is going, but you have no
(04:26):
way of knowing if that's a healthy way to be spending your
money. And that's one of the things
that we're really educating business owners on.
But also, how do we earn more money in the most sustainable,
smartest way possible? It's a great question.
How do we do it? Yeah.
So for me, the dream monies approach is 1.
We have to get really clear on the target revenue goals we
really need to be pursuing that are actually profitable and
(04:48):
sustainable and meaningful for you and your life and your
financial dreams, which is, I think one of the reasons we
connect so well. Because I think a lot of times
we're pursuing a number that someone else has told us is
enough, but we haven't. We don't have a framework of
really determining like what is truly enough for me and my
dreams? How much do my dreams cost?
When do I want to fund those by?And those are really, really
(05:08):
important questions. So we're pursuing specific goals
and once we have those goals clarified, now we can ask the
really smart question of what's the most sustainable way for me
to get there? Because not all money is dream
money. And I would imagine that most of
us know what burnt out money feels like.
I'm working way too hard for it money.
And so how can we get more strategic with how we're
(05:30):
designing our businesses so we have a more streamlined way to
growth? And those I think are one of the
two of the main, main problems that Dream Money is really
solving for people, is helping them get clear on personal
meaningful financial goals that makes sense for them.
And then the business model that's going to get them there,
that really honors their capacity.
Here's my dream, Megan. My dream transparently is that
(05:53):
people can come to me and do thework to figure out that stuff.
The on the mindset side and the reason that we're partnering,
which is an evolution kind of partnership, but that it is what
we're we're just like getting, we're getting to it.
Is that great? If you don't know, come work
with me and figure it out instead of trying to fit into
(06:15):
the box of 10% profitability or 20% profitability and trying to
find the rules and do it right. Make it work for you.
Figure it out for you first. And now because of you, Megan,
there's an actual tool that thensyncs with that versus just
giving you a prescription and goto QuickBooks and just look at
(06:37):
your percent to revenue income. Yes, yes.
And that's like one of the biggest goals for us here at
Dream Money is really partneringwith other Allied professionals.
We're going to provide the software, but when it comes to
bespoke coaching and really looking at what does this look
like for you and your business, having someone else who can
really hold those conversations for you is going to be key.
(06:59):
It's absolutely key. I have been down the wormhole
and daily I'm getting emails from tech companies saying, hey,
try our app, pay, try our app. And the one thing that that I
see over and over and over againis it's just another glorified
budgeting tool. Yes.
How is dream money not that? So we don't really do any
(07:21):
budgeting. We, we do put in your spending
plans. Sure.
So and that's really essential for us to understand what your
true financial needs are. So how much does it cost you to
run your business? How much does it cost you to pay
your team? How much does it cost you to
reinvest back into your business?
How much does your personal lifecost?
So we're really getting clear onthose numbers for you, but we're
not tracking any of your spending at all.
(07:44):
It's really around how do we getclear on your financial needs?
How do we get clear on your financial dreams?
And then we move straight into business strategy after that.
So with Dream Money, although onour product road map, we do
eventually want to have accounting both an end, we're
not doing any any of those features right now.
And so there isn't really a platform on the market that's
(08:05):
really helping you get clear on how to earn more money in the
most sustainable way possible. That's right.
And we know for most of my clients, Megan, when they come
and sit with me, they're expecting me to tell them to cut
back and that their spending is the problem.
My #1 feedback to people after Ilook at their financials is your
under earning. For everyone who's listening to
(08:26):
this, there's a huge smile on myface right now because yes,
that's one of the things I thinkis the biggest detriment because
when we don't know our numbers, it's very easily to under
charge. It's very easy to do that.
Under charge. And then we hide from the
numbers because of the decisionsthat we made when we were kids
about what it meant. Or like me, I got AB in math in
(08:49):
4th grade and just decided that I was horrible in math,
therefore I sucked at it. Which really isn't true at all,
but created an aversion to numbers.
Yes, and dream money is a soft landing.
Your world is a soft landing. Yes, for women, I think yes.
All right, well, let's just figure it out.
I'm so glad that you said that because I think one of the
biggest reasons we've created this is I've been teaching this
(09:12):
methodology for eight years and there's two things that always
show up. 1A spreadsheet adversity for most people
because it feels overwhelming. You feel like you're going to
break some equation, you don't know how to fix it, so how can
we just erase that issue? And the second thing that shows
up is math trauma. This fear that you don't know
how to do math. Well, you're going to screw up
(09:33):
an equation, you're not going tohave real numbers.
So how can we create software that's doing all of that heavy
lifting for you? It's brilliant.
We're really excited about it. I know you should be.
I'm super excited about it too. All right, so for you, you're
not about hustle culture. I'm not about hustle culture.
I honestly believe that hustle culture needs to die all
together. Yes, here, here.
(09:54):
When a woman right now, like my nervous system, when someone
just tells me to work harder, I want to move in the opposite
direction because I'm over it. I'm a 45 year old woman.
I have teenagers. I want to wake up in the morning
and go to yoga and still earn $3,000,000.
Yes. I don't want to work harder.
And you also made that decision at some point.
(10:17):
I, I watched on social media, onInstagram, you were telling the
story that I believe you were pregnant and your husband was
being deployed, which is a direct equation of like, fuck,
I'm going to have to work reallyhard right now.
And when did you realize that for you hustle harder was not
the model and for and what are what are you doing to help women
shift out of that culture? Yeah, I mean, I think that
(10:40):
hustling that year was I knew itwasn't an option because so much
was on my shoulders that I had to take care of me because if I
fell me, I was taking care of two kids under 2 that year while
my husband was gone for six months.
So I knew that I had to be really, really wise and
intentional with my energy and my reserves if we were going to
(11:01):
make it through that year. And even just protecting my
mental health, Like for all moms, you know, those early
years of motherhood are just, they're very demanding on like,
physically, spiritually, mentally, all the things.
And I also was a business owner.And So what did it look like to
make space for all of these things in the most sustainable
way possible? And so I had to get radically
(11:22):
honest with myself that year. And there was a lot of guilt
around. I really literally only have 10
hours a week to work when I was used to working 40-50 hours a
week, right? And so I was like,
realistically, I only have this much amount of time.
And also I want to make twice aswhat I'm used to.
(11:44):
And that felt like an almost impossible equation, but it was
the right equation for me to sitwith because I asked myself the
right question. How could I double my revenue
working very, very minimally? And that's going to invite you
to think about leveraging your time and your energy and
expertise and in new ways that you might not have thought of
before. And that's exactly what happened
(12:06):
for me. So that year was a very
transformative year. I created one offer that allowed
me to work very, very minimally,like 5 hours a week, because the
other five hours and that 10 hour work week, how do we spend
on all the other things that a business needs to run?
And I doubled my revenue that year and also doubled what I was
paying myself, which are two different numbers.
(12:27):
Two totally different. Numbers.
So that was just so transformative for me and so
much money healing work happenedthat year too because I had
consistent cash flow for the first time ever in my business
working less like not hustling at all, even though it was a
very hard year personally. Sure.
And that just changed how I thought about business design,
(12:48):
how I thought about financial stability and the quickest and
most streamlined way there. And that really became the
foundation for all that dream money has really grown into
today. I love it specifically, Was it
just charging more? Was it putting together a
program? What was it that doubled the
revenue? So back then this was like
(13:11):
early, early stages of my business.
I just made the transition from therapy to coaching, which is a
very big mental construct to shift into, especially from a
pricing perspective, you know, cuz I was a therapist, you know,
charging 150 an hour, like you're at the top range already,
or at least I was in my area. And then moving into the
coaching arena. That's like the bottom of the
(13:33):
barrel, right? And so that took me some time to
really think about that. But in that year I created a 12
month program that was a tiered program and I loved tiered
programs because you get to create more accessibility for
your people, but you also get toadd more revenue potential for
work you're already doing. And so that offer that year was
a 12 month program for 20 women.We had two different tiers. 1
(13:56):
was like just a community level tier and then the other one was
community plus 101 support. It just had 1101 call a month.
And that was what took me to that double of revenue, right?
And so, and it was also very accessible pricing back then
too, because that year I really only needed like 60 K to take me
(14:16):
to a place where I had a consistent 5K months.
And then I ended up doing that plus paying off 30K in business
debt that year by stocking otheroffers on top.
And so that offer that year, ourcommunity level was 150 a month
and our one O 1 tier was only 350 a month, which felt like a
stretch for me at the time. And I think that pricing, I
(14:37):
mean, you know, my hourly rate as a like business strategist
now is like 1500. So I've like 10 times my rate
over the years, but it takes some time to really, I think,
get client results, like build that confidence, all of those
things. So I'm really proud of the
shifts that I made that year andalso how I structured that offer
(15:00):
because it was just a game changer that took me to my first
six figure year and then multiple 6 figures soon after
that. And like, it's just been growing
ever since. I love that you broke that down
for us because that's exactly where so many women are right
now. And I, I, I've coached
therapists who are in that process.
And that's exactly where I started too.
(15:20):
I was a financial advisor, whichat that time a decade ago, there
wasn't fee based really a whole lot of that anyway.
And coaching money coaching was really not a thing.
So I went from making like hardly any money to charging 150
an hour to having a group program for $300 and I made six
figures. I made $128,000 in 10 months by
(15:42):
doing that. Yes.
And it felt like freedom for me.Yes, yeah.
I mean, I can't even. I remember just sitting in
tears. Like I didn't even realize that
I had had like a 60K launch until months later when I was
breaking it down with my friend.She's like, so hold on a second.
If you had a 60K launch, I was like, did I?
Oh, I guess I did, but I just price things on a monthly basis.
(16:04):
That's what I was really focusing on and not the total,
you know, cash in the door. So yeah, I think so many of us
want to skip over, I think the gradual steps that really allow
us to embody new price points confidently.
And that stuff takes time if you're going to do it right for
your nervous system and and for your audience.
I totally agree, nervous system work is non negotiable in
(16:27):
expanding your capacity. Melissa Blinn and I, we do,
she's all over. I've done several episodes with
her. We host a retreat annually all
about your capacity and the nervous system work that goes
with the money work. And I know that you're, you
know, you're super aligned with that.
So ladies, if you're, I know you're listening because you're
listening to us right now. Take that from this
(16:48):
conversation. First of all, start with where
you're at. Don't judge yourself from where
you're not. And one thing that I know on
social media for sure is you've got a lot of people telling you
that they're running multi $1,000,000 coaching businesses.
And I don't believe that that's actually the case.
Yeah. So so do your due diligence when
you're working with a coach to understand how they're making
(17:10):
that money, where it's coming from, and also where they
started. Because most coaches don't start
making millions. Many the the majority don't
anyway. Yes.
Yes, but to your point of all ofthis is none of that matters
unless you know how it's going to personally connect because
(17:32):
you might decide that all you need is $60,000 a year to live
the life that you want to live or all you need to make is
$300,000 a year. My one of my dear friends,
auntie and I just had this conversation on Instagram
yesterday. The point is you get to decide
what what the number is and you and then figure out how you're
going to work and model your business from there.
(17:54):
Yes, this is a soapbox I have been on for years because I, I
despise like the 10K month, 20K month, 50K month, you know, 100K
month conversation. Those numbers mean nothing
unless there's relativity in your life and your for your
family and your dreams and what you're really trying to create
together. I much prefer to take that
(18:16):
approach to numbers and like, even with our good, better, best
goal calculator inside dream money, you're not ever going to
see a 10K number or 20K number. It's going to be 12,742 that
like it's very, very specific tohow much you truly need.
Yeah, this is something that I'mrejecting and disrupting in my
world is you won't see me a whole lot on social media or my
(18:39):
website shouting from the rooftops people's financial
goals for that reason. Yeah, because someone if if
you're if you go to a coach's website and they're like, I made
$5000, I made $10,000, I made $20,000.
It really is like so abstract toyour personal life, it doesn't
matter. And then all you end up doing is
judging yourself for what you don't or what you're not, and it
(19:02):
it's like feeding this scarcity beast that I think is ultimately
so unhealthy. So stop comparing yourself and
your revenue to other people. It doesn't matter.
Amen. And I think the other thing is
too, a lot of what's happening on social like using these
numbers is it's not telling us the most important piece.
Yep, because it's not just top line revenue, it's the margins
(19:24):
that you have behind the scenes that matter immensely with how
your money feels and also what it's funding for you.
So for instance, somebody might be saying, well, I made 10K, but
they spent $7500 to to get there, right.
So that's really not nearly as impressive.
That's the sparkly 10K. And so I want women in
particular to be having a much more nuanced, layered
(19:47):
conversation around revenue and money because it really, really
matters immensely with how your money is supporting you and your
dreams behind this. I totally agree.
I couldn't agree with you more. And depending on what industry
you're in, the margins are goingto be different.
Yes. Right, so coaching, coaching and
I have a client I have several clients who are interior
(20:09):
designers tend to have pretty high margin revenues, meaning
let's break this down. OK, let's let's break this down
to you in this moment when I mean high margin, low margin and
Megan's going to help me do it too.
If you're making, if you're, if you have low costs, so coaching
other than what we mostly marketing is the biggest cost
(20:30):
that we have as coaches, right? If you're, if you're a coach,
you have a very profitable business.
You can charge $300.00 an hour. And unless you're spending a
buck, a bucket load, which I do in marketing, a good portion of
that 6070% of that can come backto you in the, in the form of
(20:51):
profit. But if you sell pencils, right,
so lots of women have lots of different kinds of businesses, a
good majority of the cost that you have.
So I have a client that owns an HVAC company, well 60%.
So if you charge $1.60 of that is gonna go back to costs and
your margin will be lower and then you have the cost that it
(21:14):
takes to operate your actual business, Yes.
So maybe even even though you'remaking $3,000,000, you might
only have a 10% margin at the end of the day, yes.
So not all businesses are created equal.
Do you have anything to add to that?
I think that's so important for women to understand of what type
(21:34):
business that they're running because the lower your overhead,
the greater, right? Like the leaner you can run your
business, always the better. But sometimes depending on the
business model, like even leaning at like a restaurant,
for example, even if you are as lean as possible, your margins
are still incredibly tight just because of the nature of the
business. And so I think understanding
(21:56):
what's expected and typical in your business model is also
really important too for just are you even in the game park of
what this should look? Like exactly.
And so you can learn through Megan, through Dream Company,
Dream company, through Dream Money, how to actualize numbers
(22:16):
that make sense for your lifestyle.
And the number one bleed to yourbusiness, by the way, is your
lifestyle. Yes.
Oh, I would totally agree. Yeah, I would say the other
place that we see bleeds quite often is also with team because
people tend to over hire and they're they're holding these
very, very expensive teams when they actually need to be running
leaner. And then they also, their
(22:38):
reinvestment margin can also be fairly high because we live in a
world where there's so much, so much of goodness and greatness
to invest in. And so we really want people to
understand how much they really should be reinvesting back into
the business because that can also greatly disrupt your
profitability. Yes it can.
Yeah. Yes it can.
How long should someone reinvestinto their business before they
(23:03):
shift over to and being able to take out more for themselves
because they're like, and it depends, right?
There's an early, there's an early stage of business where
you might need to reinvest back into your business more.
But so you have, I guess maybe this is a good place to take it.
You have good, better, best goals, yes.
And how do you walk someone through those ebbs and flows of
(23:25):
business? Yeah.
So I think about business developmentally because
background is a psychotherapist kind of just tracks.
So we have different phases of business growth.
And in my mind, we have the building phase.
And this is going to be your most expensive phase because
you're typically having to skillyourself up and school yourself
up on what it takes to run a successful business.
(23:48):
And during this stage, you're likely going to feel like you
have so much money going out andnot as much coming in.
And that is very, very normal. I think when people are in that
phase, they feel like they're failing.
Yeah. And there's going to be startup
cost to any business. So the thing that I usually
refer to is when you're going toget a degree in something,
you're paying all of this money upfront to get that education.
(24:10):
So then you make that money backafter you graduate.
It's very similar in business. When we move out of building
stage, we're very clear and usually what it is that we do
and who it is that we serve. Now we move into the next stage,
which I think is the refining phase.
Now we're refining how we get people the best results.
This is usually when a lot of your methodology is going to
start coming out. If you're a service based
(24:30):
business, which is, you know, myprior expertise and we're
building a lot of systems, we'retrying to systematize things
that are creating more sustainability and capacity in
the business to start serving more people.
In this stage, you're still likely going to have a lot of
investments around some of thosekey concepts of learning how to
build key systems, learning how to.
If you're building group programs, for instance, you
(24:51):
might be investing in curriculumdesign or learning more about
adult learning. How can you create the best
possible program with the best possible outcomes?
OK. Once we have that built, then we
move into the next stage, which I see as streamlining.
That's when we're really starting to think about how does
everything we're off we're offering fit together?
How, what does my offer suite look like?
(25:11):
How do we create this organic sales engine in my business?
So one offer is really selling into the next and all of those
things. Here you're really focusing on
marketing and messaging. So again, you might have some
investments that are directly related to that if you're
noticing an education gap here. But in the streamlining stage,
you're usually starting to invest less and start to put
(25:33):
more money into team. So that's going to support the
operations of your business. And then the last stage in my
mind is that then we're ready toscale.
OK? So scaling up is now we have
everything built and we're really ready to serve more
people. And here you're probably going
to see more money be spent in advertising to grill your
audience to get enough reach to really support your scaling
(25:54):
revenue goals. But your team, we really want to
keep lean in that season. You're not really in reinvesting
a lot into your education at this point because you're
skilled up and schooled up on what it really needs, right?
So a lot of that money is going to go into ads.
And we have margins that breakdown.
Like most small businesses are going to be spending like
anywhere from like 7 to 10% of their revenue on marketing,
(26:16):
depending on their marketing strategy.
We like to see businesses depending on the type of
business to be somewhere around 5:00 to really make sure that
you're getting that ROI from your ad spend before you start
scaling that up. So that's how I think about it.
And I think it's really important to think that there's
these three different stages that come before we even think
about scaling. And so many times you're like,
(26:37):
I'm just ready to scale. I'm like, no, you're not, no,
not not even close. You're not.
That's. That I love the way that you
describe those stages. And so the question back to you
today, the listener is what stage are you in?
And give yourself full acknowledgement and grace and
ownership of that stage. Because if you're anything like
(26:59):
me as a dreamer, money personality, I hop onto all
these different websites or I'lllook at Instagram or
Entrepreneur magazine or whatever, which I've been
featured in. And I'm like, well, I'm not
there yet. And then I'm like pissed.
And I want to skip steps, but you can't skip steps.
You can't and it'll come back tobite you if you try and scale
(27:20):
too soon because you don't have the infrastructure yet to
support the things will start tobreak if you try and skip over
steps. And the people that usually
suffer, well, one, you're going to suffer because you're going
to feel stressed out. And two, your client results
also tend to suffer because you're just stretched too thin.
And so you don't ever want to let that be the variable that
falls because that's the thing that all of your business is
(27:42):
really built upon is your clientoutcomes, that word of mouth,
the way people think about your brands and the trust that you've
built with your people. That's right, that's right.
So hone your craft first. Yes, right, yes.
And I think from like a timing perspective, it's really hard.
You know, I would say if you're like super clear, depends on how
long you stay in the building stage, honestly, because I think
(28:04):
a lot of times people are like, oh, I'll be in the building
stage in year one that can actually last from one to three
years. Because you might serve, you
might think that you have clarity on this is what I want
to be doing and this is who I want to be serving.
And then as you start to deliverthat work, you're like, this
isn't quite it or something elsewill show up in your life that
you want to weave into how you're supporting people.
So that can take some time to really get that dialed in.
(28:26):
And then refining depending on what past experience and
education you're bringing to that process, right, that could
also take a couple of years. And so I think like the scaling
stage realistically is like the earliest I think is year 7 or 8
obviously. I agree, which is so, so real.
Thank you for being real and honest because this is what
(28:48):
people need to know. This is what my clients need to
know. This is what women need to know
is that it's going to take time for a reason.
It's not because you suck. It's not because you're not
great at what you do. It's not because you're destined
for failure. It's just that it takes time.
And in all of the research that I've done, it's a 10 year
(29:09):
window. It there is not, there is no
such thing as an overnight success.
Yes, the first person I worked with on money, this was back in
like 2019 I think she told me because I was so in my head that
I should be further along by now.
And that is one of the worst things for us to say to
(29:30):
ourselves. But I was just stuck in this and
I just felt so defeated. I felt like I was a failure.
And she said, Megan, usually it's going to take seven years
for a business to have any levelof like, consistent, sustainable
cash flow. And it took me 6 years because,
right, we had the big shift in 2018.
But it took me some time to get that to happen over and over and
(29:51):
over and over again. So I'm so glad that she said
that to me because I'm kind of the person, like, if you tell me
how much it's actually going to take, I have that personal
resolve of like, OK, I can be committed to that process.
And I have a very different expectation of when I should be
seeing these results. Yeah, it's so honest and so real
and so important, because if someone's telling you anything
(30:14):
other than this, they're just trying to sell you into their
program. Yes, because faster is always
better, yeah. And it's bullshit.
It's bullshit, bullshit. It's bullshit because you again,
going back to your nervous system too, you're, you're in
the experience process of $100 million.
I've seen you say that. I don't exactly know what that
(30:34):
means. I'll help.
Hopefully you can break that down.
But I can imagine you've needed to expand your capacity.
You've needed to expand your nervous system in order to be
able to receive that call it in.What's that been like to go from
$60,000 a year to evaluation? And it's not, I'm, I mean to be
clear, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean $100 million in
(30:55):
cash flow, but it's evaluation ultimately of how this whole app
and fintech is going for you. So what's that journey been like
for you? Yeah.
Let me break down where that 100million is coming from.
So first of all, when you move from being a business owner to
being a founder, these are two very different roles and I was
not prepared for that at all. A small business owner is
(31:18):
someone who doesn't necessarily have the vision of building
multiple, multiple, multiple $1,000,000 to have an exit one
day of selling their company fora billion, right?
Let's, but that's not how small businesses operate.
A startup is a very different animal where you are looking at
that type of scale. And so it was last year that I
went and applied for a very big grant opportunity.
(31:40):
You could win up to 150,000 is the most competitive grant in
the state. And I said, you know what, I
think I have a shot at this and I'm going to apply.
And so part of that application process is I had to build out a
business plan, which is different than a revenue plan.
OK, so I build out revenue plansall day, every day.
A business plan is much more thorough.
I had to YouTube what all goes into a successful business plan.
(32:03):
And there were three numbers that I had to calculate, which
are called your Tam, Sam and Sam.
And these three numbers really clarify your total addressable
market. How many people in the world or
in your niche could actually useyour products?
OK, Then you have to go to your Sam, which is your serviceable,
addressable market. Out of all the people who could
(32:23):
use this, how many people are you likely to serve?
OK, Then you have to do the third calculation, which is your
sum, and that is your serviceable obtainable market.
So how many of these people are we likely to actually capture,
OK and serve? And so the numbers start out
really, really big and get smaller.
And what somebody told me is that if your sum, so the
(32:46):
smallest number is not at least a billion dollars with AB.
OK, Yeah, I don't even have a shot at getting investors
getting this grant. And I always said I'm coming
from an industry where $1,000,000 business is a big
deal and now we're talking abouta billion.
So I had to look at the numbers and we when I calculated that
number, we were at 2 billion with our sum.
(33:09):
So I was like, OK, this is the first paradigm shift.
OK, So then I had to say, OK, that that could be where we end
up. But now I have to run my
financial projections of the next five years because that's
another part of the business plan.
So before I sat down to look at any of this and do any of these
calculations, I thought dream Money might be a 5 million, $10
million company, which is still amazing for any woman
(33:31):
entrepreneur. We were at 5 million in year 1.
Like once we got our product to market, we were at 100 million
by Year 5 if we hit all of our targets.
And the thing that really broke my brain is that for us to be at
100 million, we only have to support 2% of women owned
business owners who need this 2%.
(33:54):
So that's where that $100 million, that number is coming
from. But I'll never forget when I was
looking at that and doing all the math, like Lisa, I did the
calculations like 5 times. I'm like, I've never played with
this many zeros, like something must be wrong.
But once I knew, like there's nomistakes.
I remember there was a very distinct moment of like, OK,
Megan, like this is how big thiscan be.
(34:17):
You've never done anything this big.
Are you game to take this on? And I really sat with that
because I'm like, can I be the person that takes that on?
And that was the day that I committed to this of saying, OK,
whatever is going to be asked ofme, whoever needs to come across
my path, like whatever this is going to look like, I am willing
to just let's go for it. Like, what is the worst thing
(34:39):
that can happen? And so we've really been on that
journey ever since. That's amazing.
I, I call these butt sweat moments like literally when,
when these things happen in my life, my, I like sweat all over
the place. What is the work that you've
done in your nervous system to be able to stay on this path and
(34:59):
and track it and still be a present mom and still connected
to Dream Money Live the lifestyle that you want to live.
Yeah. So very similarly, like when I'm
coaching someone around steppinginto different price points, the
way the nervous system works forme is that we can think
something intellectually, but wereally need it to register in
(35:20):
our body and our somatics. Yeah.
And the way that I have done that is that I have to verbalize
things out loud. I can't just think about the
number. I have to start saying the
number. And so when we're talking about
a price point, I will tell my clients and they think I'm
probably totally nuts, but I sayI want you to walk around your
house and say your new price point out loud.
It's $1500 a month to work with me.
(35:40):
It's $2000 a month to work with me.
Whatever your number is, I want your nervous system to totally
freak out the first time you sayit.
And I want you to have all the fields, like, Oh my God, I can't
believe I'm charging that. Like, Oh my God, are people
going to pay it whatever the nervous system does?
Yeah. And then I want you to keep
going until you can say that newprice point.
Like it's saying the sky is blue.
That's how I want your nervous system to respond.
(36:02):
There's nothing to respond to. It just is what it is.
We've taken the emotional component out of it, right?
That's been one of the strategies that I've used here.
And I first shared this $100 million vision at a conference
that I was speaking at last September.
And I remember sitting in that chair of like, can I say it?
Because what are people going tothink?
(36:23):
That was the first thought that I had.
Who is this girl who thinks she can build this $100 million
business? Or I was afraid that people
would compare like, oh, my dreams aren't big enough because
they're not I, I never want people to feel like they're not
pursuing something big for them.So big is relative, you know?
But I took a deep breath and I shared it and I've been sharing
(36:45):
it ever since for part of my ownnervous system regulation work.
I'm just reminding myself like, this is what we're building and
it's OK to say it. It's OK to claim it, and it's OK
to remind yourself of your vision publicly.
It is. Yes, yeah, I love that.
Thank you for sharing that. Of course, This has been so
great. This has been so great.
Yeah, I'm so grateful that you're here.
(37:07):
And I, I know that whoever is benefiting from this
conversation is taking these takeaways from you.
So let's shift gears and talk about calling women forward.
Yes. I believe without a shadow of a
doubt, and I heard it. I heard it last night.
I heard a guy say this last night and I was like, yes, that
for the world to heal, it is going to require women to lean
(37:32):
in, to step up, but not in the masculine.
It's going to require us to claim and own.
And I truly believe this to my core, that when women are in
financial ownership of the world, everything will change.
And we are in that century of ithappening.
We are in the moment and you aretaking the lead.
(37:53):
I'm in. I'm taking the lead in my way.
What's one small but powerful disruption any woman can make in
her career and Business Today? The.
First thing that comes to me is that you have to trust yourself
to take risk. And what feels risky right now
might feel so small and silly that it feels risky and do it
anyway. Because the minute you start to
(38:14):
take the risks that feel risky for you, the more capacity
you're going to build to take bigger risks later.
And I firmly believe that we're not going to create the world
that we want to see until we getcomfortable being risky.
That's right. Yeah, that's right.
I love that. I love that.
And then attract people in your life who are going to support
you and taking the risks. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
On the front end and then on theback end, because you will have
(38:37):
a vulnerability hangover sometimes.
Can I really do this right? Like there's so many times I've
taken a big leap and like that 5minutes of bravery or five
seconds of bravery, I'm like, I totally got this.
And I say yes to the thing. And then like literally an hour
later I'm like, Oh my God, yes to like, can I really do this?
Like you need your scaffolding. You really, really do.
You do, and it's going to take money to get there.
(38:59):
Yes. Do not be delusional about that.
It's going to take money and probably way more than you think
it's going to. So learn how to arm up and level
up financially. Yes, yeah.
We live in a system where money equates to options, freedom,
power, decision making. And I know in the beginning, I
didn't want that to be true, andI wanted to create something
(39:22):
different. But then I realized in order for
us to create something different, we have to play these
rules and win at the same game so we can change things from the
top. That's right.
So And that has been very freeing for me, honestly, of
partnering with money, seeing itas the way through.
Yeah. And that's just a beautiful type
of relationship for you to be cultivating anyway.
(39:42):
The money's really on your side.It's on your team.
It's like here to help you do amazing things in the world.
That's right. We, we, I love not the nonprofit
model and it does such great work in the world.
And for those giver money personalities out there, why not
just start your own business andown it from the top and make the
impact from the top. And it doesn't have to be a
(40:06):
nonprofit to be impactful. When women look back on this
generation of entrepreneurs, what do you hope they'll say
about the way we have changed the narrative around money and
business? Love these questions.
They're like, they're like thought provokers.
I hope that women will have transformed the way that money
is often demonized and seen as something that's taboo and that
(40:28):
if you want money, it means something about you that we
don't do to men. We typically tend to do it only
to women. That we have changed the
narrative so much that women talking about money, wanting
money, making money, holding money, giving money, all the
things is like the most normal thing in the world.
Yeah, Yeah, I want that too. Well, you and I are going to
(40:51):
lead the way on that. Yes.
We are leading the way on that. Yes, it's happening.
Like we're literally in process of it right now, Yeah.
OK so for a little fun my one ofmy favorite road trip games or
friendship games is this or that.
OK. I play, I've played it with like
first and 2nd graders who absolutely love it.
(41:11):
So let's tap into our inner child here for a moment and
we're going to do rapid fire this or that.
Are you ready? Yes.
OK. Beach day or mountain escape.
Mountain escape, Ziplining or yoga retreat.
Ziplining. You're my girl, Champagne.
Hold. That is really hard.
I'm gonna go tequila. Heels or sneakers?
(41:36):
I've really been loving my heelslately.
I'm actually gonna go heels. First class flight or private
villa? Private villa.
Karaoke night or silent disco? I just did my first silent disco
a couple weeks ago. It was so fun.
Bookstore browse or Netflix Netflix binge.
Netflix bench. Sunrise meditation or midnight
(41:56):
brainstorm? Sunrise.
Bold lipstick or no makeup glow.Bold lipstick.
Cash flow now or long term wealth later?
Long term wealth. Risk it all or play it
calculated. We all know the answer to this
one. We're worth risking at all.
We're going all in. Grow faster, grow steady study.
(42:18):
I love that. Where can people find you and
how can they subscribe to Dream Money today?
Yes, so. I am most active on my
meganhale.co.instagramwehaveadreammoney.co.onebutmoreitsjustkindofthereforrightnowyoucanlearnmoreaboutourproduct@dreammoney.coand there's two ways of joining
Dream Money, either on a quarterly subscription which is
(42:40):
297 or you can join yearly for 997, get two months free.
Plus, we have some one-on-one bonuses offered at that level
too, to really incentivize. One of the biggest reasons that
we want to incentivize the yearly subscription is 1.
It's great for cash flow for a startup.
I don't want to be very transparent about that because
it's very expensive to build software.
(43:00):
But the second reason is I'm sure you'll agree with this.
When it comes to creating financial change in your life
and in your business, this is something that's it's going to
take some time. And so having a framework that's
supporting you, having a processand a practice that are
supporting you, that's what's going to lead to the highest
outcomes. And so that is why we really
want to see more people saying yes to dream money for a year.
(43:21):
And the outcome is that you'll have dream money at the end of
this thing, which stands for deliberate, reliable, easeful,
abundant, meaningful money, by the way.
Who doesn't want that? Exactly.
Maybe you didn't know you wantedthat, but now you're like.
Yes, I want that. That's exactly.
That is what we want for you. We want you to live your best
(43:42):
life, leading from the top of your life financially.
This software works when you work with it.
Yes. You cannot.
Please take this today and implement it in your own life.
You cannot outsource your dreams.
You cannot outsource your numbers, but you can play with
it and enjoy it. And that is what Dream Money is
(44:05):
here to do, is to teach you the method so that you can see that
it's possible and then you can go do it.
Megan, thank you so much for being here today.
Thank you so much for having me.Yeah, and what's one thing you
want to leave with our community?
I think the one thing that I want to leave is no matter how
money is feeling for you currently right now, just know
that change is possible because I see it every single day.
(44:27):
But it comes from really showingup, taking the risk to get
uncomfortable and doing the work, and all of us have access
to that. Yeah, we do.
All right. You heard it from Megan.
You know where to find her. Follow your dreams.
They are absolutely worth it. Nothing is too big.
Everything is possible. And we'll see you next time on
REAL MONEY. Thanks for joining us.
Only 7% of women and them owned businesses make over $250,000 a
year gross. Because so much was on my
shoulders that I had to take care.
Of I honestly believe that hustle culture needs to die
altogether. There was a lot of guilt around.
I really literally only have 10 hours a week to work.
(00:21):
What happens when a woman decides to stop chasing the
grind and start designing wealthon her own terms?
Megan Hale didn't just reject hustle culture.
She created a blueprint for aligning business growth rooted
in ease, integrity, and profit. This is a story for every woman
who's ready to disrupt how we build wealth and do business
differently. Megan Hale is my guest today.
(00:43):
She is a fierce advocate for doing business in a way that
honors both wealth and well-being.
She's the creator of the Dream Money Method and App and a
former psychotherapist turned business strategist.
Megan knows her shit when it comes to money and building
dreams. She helps women shift from
hustle to alignment and build businesses that are both
(01:03):
profitable and fulfilling. She's not just teaching
strategy, she's disrupting how women create power in business.
And if you're looking to make big changes in your business and
know exactly the steps that you need to take in order to do
that, this is the show for you. Let's get started.
(01:25):
You're incredible. So are you?
Thank you. The work that you're doing is
incredible. Thank you.
You wear lots of hats in life. The hat that we're going to lean
into though is Fintech creator and how you have progressed in
your own journey from psychotherapist to life coach to
business coach, which which you still are doing some life
(01:47):
coaching and business coaching. And then also you, you at some
point had an AHA where you were like, this isn't enough and we
need a technology and we need toget out of spreadsheets.
And so you took this on and I'm so grateful that you did.
And so introducing to you Megan Hale of DREAM MONEY.
Welcome to REAL MONEY. Thank you for having me, I'm so
excited to be here. I know.
(02:08):
I'm really, really grateful thatyou're here.
I am a member of Dream Money. I'm so excited to sink my teeth
into this technology. My money personality.
If you don't know your money personality, go to
lisachastain.com/quiz. My money personality is a
dreamer. I think big.
I'm loving this already. Yes, I think big.
(02:31):
I dream big, I go big. I take butt pucker risks in my
business and and here is why we are here today, Megan, because
we are both we had this conversation.
You were like who? We kind of did like a little
date at 1st and I was like, well, who are you?
And you're like, well, who are you?
And I was like, oh, you're cool.This is kind of how girls how we
make friends now, right? It does.
(02:53):
And then I was like, well, I'm on a mission to have women
become the leaders of the world financially.
You said I'm on the mission for that too.
We're doing it in our own ways. And here's why.
We know women are climbing the ranks financially.
More money is coming to more women this decade, more than
ever before. And yet only 7% of women and fem
(03:15):
owned businesses make over $250,000 a year gross.
Not take. Not take home and Less than 10%
of female coaches earn more than$100,000 a year.
I've seen that statistic too, which is so hard to see.
It is I I see that as opportunity. 100%.
(03:40):
That the the lion's share is outthere for us, and as lionesses,
it's time for us to go get it. You're saying all my favorite
words. I'm a Leo over here.
Yes, we're in Leo. I think we're still in Leo
season too. We're in Leo season, yes.
Yes, so smart business design, confident business leadership,
financial education. This is way more than APL. 100%.
(04:05):
Way more and the dreamer in me is like PL's are kind of boring
because where is all of this going?
Yes. And I would say too for
entrepreneurs like PL's are madefor tax professionals, Yes, and
finance professionals there it'snot a lot of helpful data for
entrepreneurs to make strategic decisions.
What is the helpful data? Yeah.
What is the helpful data? Exactly.
It's great to know where your money is going, but you have no
(04:26):
way of knowing if that's a healthy way to be spending your
money. And that's one of the things
that we're really educating business owners on.
But also, how do we earn more money in the most sustainable,
smartest way possible? It's a great question.
How do we do it? Yeah.
So for me, the dream monies approach is 1.
We have to get really clear on the target revenue goals we
really need to be pursuing that are actually profitable and
(04:48):
sustainable and meaningful for you and your life and your
financial dreams, which is, I think one of the reasons we
connect so well. Because I think a lot of times
we're pursuing a number that someone else has told us is
enough, but we haven't. We don't have a framework of
really determining like what is truly enough for me and my
dreams? How much do my dreams cost?
When do I want to fund those by?And those are really, really
(05:08):
important questions. So we're pursuing specific goals
and once we have those goals clarified, now we can ask the
really smart question of what's the most sustainable way for me
to get there? Because not all money is dream
money. And I would imagine that most of
us know what burnt out money feels like.
I'm working way too hard for it money.
And so how can we get more strategic with how we're
(05:30):
designing our businesses so we have a more streamlined way to
growth? And those I think are one of the
two of the main, main problems that Dream Money is really
solving for people, is helping them get clear on personal
meaningful financial goals that makes sense for them.
And then the business model that's going to get them there,
that really honors their capacity.
Here's my dream, Megan. My dream transparently is that
(05:53):
people can come to me and do thework to figure out that stuff.
The on the mindset side and the reason that we're partnering,
which is an evolution kind of partnership, but that it is what
we're we're just like getting, we're getting to it.
Is that great? If you don't know, come work
with me and figure it out instead of trying to fit into
(06:15):
the box of 10% profitability or 20% profitability and trying to
find the rules and do it right. Make it work for you.
Figure it out for you first. And now because of you, Megan,
there's an actual tool that thensyncs with that versus just
giving you a prescription and goto QuickBooks and just look at
(06:37):
your percent to revenue income. Yes, yes.
And that's like one of the biggest goals for us here at
Dream Money is really partneringwith other Allied professionals.
We're going to provide the software, but when it comes to
bespoke coaching and really looking at what does this look
like for you and your business, having someone else who can
really hold those conversations for you is going to be key.
(06:59):
It's absolutely key. I have been down the wormhole
and daily I'm getting emails from tech companies saying, hey,
try our app, pay, try our app. And the one thing that that I
see over and over and over againis it's just another glorified
budgeting tool. Yes.
How is dream money not that? So we don't really do any
(07:21):
budgeting. We, we do put in your spending
plans. Sure.
So and that's really essential for us to understand what your
true financial needs are. So how much does it cost you to
run your business? How much does it cost you to pay
your team? How much does it cost you to
reinvest back into your business?
How much does your personal lifecost?
So we're really getting clear onthose numbers for you, but we're
not tracking any of your spending at all.
(07:44):
It's really around how do we getclear on your financial needs?
How do we get clear on your financial dreams?
And then we move straight into business strategy after that.
So with Dream Money, although onour product road map, we do
eventually want to have accounting both an end, we're
not doing any any of those features right now.
And so there isn't really a platform on the market that's
(08:05):
really helping you get clear on how to earn more money in the
most sustainable way possible. That's right.
And we know for most of my clients, Megan, when they come
and sit with me, they're expecting me to tell them to cut
back and that their spending is the problem.
My #1 feedback to people after Ilook at their financials is your
under earning. For everyone who's listening to
(08:26):
this, there's a huge smile on myface right now because yes,
that's one of the things I thinkis the biggest detriment because
when we don't know our numbers, it's very easily to under
charge. It's very easy to do that.
Under charge. And then we hide from the
numbers because of the decisionsthat we made when we were kids
about what it meant. Or like me, I got AB in math in
(08:49):
4th grade and just decided that I was horrible in math,
therefore I sucked at it. Which really isn't true at all,
but created an aversion to numbers.
Yes, and dream money is a soft landing.
Your world is a soft landing. Yes, for women, I think yes.
All right, well, let's just figure it out.
I'm so glad that you said that because I think one of the
biggest reasons we've created this is I've been teaching this
(09:12):
methodology for eight years and there's two things that always
show up. 1A spreadsheet adversity for most people
because it feels overwhelming. You feel like you're going to
break some equation, you don't know how to fix it, so how can
we just erase that issue? And the second thing that shows
up is math trauma. This fear that you don't know
how to do math. Well, you're going to screw up
(09:33):
an equation, you're not going tohave real numbers.
So how can we create software that's doing all of that heavy
lifting for you? It's brilliant.
We're really excited about it. I know you should be.
I'm super excited about it too. All right, so for you, you're
not about hustle culture. I'm not about hustle culture.
I honestly believe that hustle culture needs to die all
together. Yes, here, here.
(09:54):
When a woman right now, like my nervous system, when someone
just tells me to work harder, I want to move in the opposite
direction because I'm over it. I'm a 45 year old woman.
I have teenagers. I want to wake up in the morning
and go to yoga and still earn $3,000,000.
Yes. I don't want to work harder.
And you also made that decision at some point.
(10:17):
I, I watched on social media, onInstagram, you were telling the
story that I believe you were pregnant and your husband was
being deployed, which is a direct equation of like, fuck,
I'm going to have to work reallyhard right now.
And when did you realize that for you hustle harder was not
the model and for and what are what are you doing to help women
shift out of that culture? Yeah, I mean, I think that
(10:40):
hustling that year was I knew itwasn't an option because so much
was on my shoulders that I had to take care of me because if I
fell me, I was taking care of two kids under 2 that year while
my husband was gone for six months.
So I knew that I had to be really, really wise and
intentional with my energy and my reserves if we were going to
(11:01):
make it through that year. And even just protecting my
mental health, Like for all moms, you know, those early
years of motherhood are just, they're very demanding on like,
physically, spiritually, mentally, all the things.
And I also was a business owner.And So what did it look like to
make space for all of these things in the most sustainable
way possible? And so I had to get radically
(11:22):
honest with myself that year. And there was a lot of guilt
around. I really literally only have 10
hours a week to work when I was used to working 40-50 hours a
week, right? And so I was like,
realistically, I only have this much amount of time.
And also I want to make twice aswhat I'm used to.
(11:44):
And that felt like an almost impossible equation, but it was
the right equation for me to sitwith because I asked myself the
right question. How could I double my revenue
working very, very minimally? And that's going to invite you
to think about leveraging your time and your energy and
expertise and in new ways that you might not have thought of
before. And that's exactly what happened
(12:06):
for me. So that year was a very
transformative year. I created one offer that allowed
me to work very, very minimally,like 5 hours a week, because the
other five hours and that 10 hour work week, how do we spend
on all the other things that a business needs to run?
And I doubled my revenue that year and also doubled what I was
paying myself, which are two different numbers.
(12:27):
Two totally different. Numbers.
So that was just so transformative for me and so
much money healing work happenedthat year too because I had
consistent cash flow for the first time ever in my business
working less like not hustling at all, even though it was a
very hard year personally. Sure.
And that just changed how I thought about business design,
(12:48):
how I thought about financial stability and the quickest and
most streamlined way there. And that really became the
foundation for all that dream money has really grown into
today. I love it specifically, Was it
just charging more? Was it putting together a
program? What was it that doubled the
revenue? So back then this was like
(13:11):
early, early stages of my business.
I just made the transition from therapy to coaching, which is a
very big mental construct to shift into, especially from a
pricing perspective, you know, cuz I was a therapist, you know,
charging 150 an hour, like you're at the top range already,
or at least I was in my area. And then moving into the
coaching arena. That's like the bottom of the
(13:33):
barrel, right? And so that took me some time to
really think about that. But in that year I created a 12
month program that was a tiered program and I loved tiered
programs because you get to create more accessibility for
your people, but you also get toadd more revenue potential for
work you're already doing. And so that offer that year was
a 12 month program for 20 women.We had two different tiers. 1
(13:56):
was like just a community level tier and then the other one was
community plus 101 support. It just had 1101 call a month.
And that was what took me to that double of revenue, right?
And so, and it was also very accessible pricing back then
too, because that year I really only needed like 60 K to take me
(14:16):
to a place where I had a consistent 5K months.
And then I ended up doing that plus paying off 30K in business
debt that year by stocking otheroffers on top.
And so that offer that year, ourcommunity level was 150 a month
and our one O 1 tier was only 350 a month, which felt like a
stretch for me at the time. And I think that pricing, I
(14:37):
mean, you know, my hourly rate as a like business strategist
now is like 1500. So I've like 10 times my rate
over the years, but it takes some time to really, I think,
get client results, like build that confidence, all of those
things. So I'm really proud of the
shifts that I made that year andalso how I structured that offer
(15:00):
because it was just a game changer that took me to my first
six figure year and then multiple 6 figures soon after
that. And like, it's just been growing
ever since. I love that you broke that down
for us because that's exactly where so many women are right
now. And I, I, I've coached
therapists who are in that process.
And that's exactly where I started too.
(15:20):
I was a financial advisor, whichat that time a decade ago, there
wasn't fee based really a whole lot of that anyway.
And coaching money coaching was really not a thing.
So I went from making like hardly any money to charging 150
an hour to having a group program for $300 and I made six
figures. I made $128,000 in 10 months by
(15:42):
doing that. Yes.
And it felt like freedom for me.Yes, yeah.
I mean, I can't even. I remember just sitting in
tears. Like I didn't even realize that
I had had like a 60K launch until months later when I was
breaking it down with my friend.She's like, so hold on a second.
If you had a 60K launch, I was like, did I?
Oh, I guess I did, but I just price things on a monthly basis.
(16:04):
That's what I was really focusing on and not the total,
you know, cash in the door. So yeah, I think so many of us
want to skip over, I think the gradual steps that really allow
us to embody new price points confidently.
And that stuff takes time if you're going to do it right for
your nervous system and and for your audience.
I totally agree, nervous system work is non negotiable in
(16:27):
expanding your capacity. Melissa Blinn and I, we do,
she's all over. I've done several episodes with
her. We host a retreat annually all
about your capacity and the nervous system work that goes
with the money work. And I know that you're, you
know, you're super aligned with that.
So ladies, if you're, I know you're listening because you're
listening to us right now. Take that from this
(16:48):
conversation. First of all, start with where
you're at. Don't judge yourself from where
you're not. And one thing that I know on
social media for sure is you've got a lot of people telling you
that they're running multi $1,000,000 coaching businesses.
And I don't believe that that's actually the case.
Yeah. So so do your due diligence when
you're working with a coach to understand how they're making
(17:10):
that money, where it's coming from, and also where they
started. Because most coaches don't start
making millions. Many the the majority don't
anyway. Yes.
Yes, but to your point of all ofthis is none of that matters
unless you know how it's going to personally connect because
(17:32):
you might decide that all you need is $60,000 a year to live
the life that you want to live or all you need to make is
$300,000 a year. My one of my dear friends,
auntie and I just had this conversation on Instagram
yesterday. The point is you get to decide
what what the number is and you and then figure out how you're
going to work and model your business from there.
(17:54):
Yes, this is a soapbox I have been on for years because I, I
despise like the 10K month, 20K month, 50K month, you know, 100K
month conversation. Those numbers mean nothing
unless there's relativity in your life and your for your
family and your dreams and what you're really trying to create
together. I much prefer to take that
(18:16):
approach to numbers and like, even with our good, better, best
goal calculator inside dream money, you're not ever going to
see a 10K number or 20K number. It's going to be 12,742 that
like it's very, very specific tohow much you truly need.
Yeah, this is something that I'mrejecting and disrupting in my
world is you won't see me a whole lot on social media or my
(18:39):
website shouting from the rooftops people's financial
goals for that reason. Yeah, because someone if if
you're if you go to a coach's website and they're like, I made
$5000, I made $10,000, I made $20,000.
It really is like so abstract toyour personal life, it doesn't
matter. And then all you end up doing is
judging yourself for what you don't or what you're not, and it
(19:02):
it's like feeding this scarcity beast that I think is ultimately
so unhealthy. So stop comparing yourself and
your revenue to other people. It doesn't matter.
Amen. And I think the other thing is
too, a lot of what's happening on social like using these
numbers is it's not telling us the most important piece.
Yep, because it's not just top line revenue, it's the margins
(19:24):
that you have behind the scenes that matter immensely with how
your money feels and also what it's funding for you.
So for instance, somebody might be saying, well, I made 10K, but
they spent $7500 to to get there, right.
So that's really not nearly as impressive.
That's the sparkly 10K. And so I want women in
particular to be having a much more nuanced, layered
(19:47):
conversation around revenue and money because it really, really
matters immensely with how your money is supporting you and your
dreams behind this. I totally agree.
I couldn't agree with you more. And depending on what industry
you're in, the margins are goingto be different.
Yes. Right, so coaching, coaching and
I have a client I have several clients who are interior
(20:09):
designers tend to have pretty high margin revenues, meaning
let's break this down. OK, let's let's break this down
to you in this moment when I mean high margin, low margin and
Megan's going to help me do it too.
If you're making, if you're, if you have low costs, so coaching
other than what we mostly marketing is the biggest cost
(20:30):
that we have as coaches, right? If you're, if you're a coach,
you have a very profitable business.
You can charge $300.00 an hour. And unless you're spending a
buck, a bucket load, which I do in marketing, a good portion of
that 6070% of that can come backto you in the, in the form of
(20:51):
profit. But if you sell pencils, right,
so lots of women have lots of different kinds of businesses, a
good majority of the cost that you have.
So I have a client that owns an HVAC company, well 60%.
So if you charge $1.60 of that is gonna go back to costs and
your margin will be lower and then you have the cost that it
(21:14):
takes to operate your actual business, Yes.
So maybe even even though you'remaking $3,000,000, you might
only have a 10% margin at the end of the day, yes.
So not all businesses are created equal.
Do you have anything to add to that?
I think that's so important for women to understand of what type
(21:34):
business that they're running because the lower your overhead,
the greater, right? Like the leaner you can run your
business, always the better. But sometimes depending on the
business model, like even leaning at like a restaurant,
for example, even if you are as lean as possible, your margins
are still incredibly tight just because of the nature of the
business. And so I think understanding
(21:56):
what's expected and typical in your business model is also
really important too for just are you even in the game park of
what this should look? Like exactly.
And so you can learn through Megan, through Dream Company,
Dream company, through Dream Money, how to actualize numbers
(22:16):
that make sense for your lifestyle.
And the number one bleed to yourbusiness, by the way, is your
lifestyle. Yes.
Oh, I would totally agree. Yeah, I would say the other
place that we see bleeds quite often is also with team because
people tend to over hire and they're they're holding these
very, very expensive teams when they actually need to be running
leaner. And then they also, their
(22:38):
reinvestment margin can also be fairly high because we live in a
world where there's so much, so much of goodness and greatness
to invest in. And so we really want people to
understand how much they really should be reinvesting back into
the business because that can also greatly disrupt your
profitability. Yes it can.
Yeah. Yes it can.
How long should someone reinvestinto their business before they
(23:03):
shift over to and being able to take out more for themselves
because they're like, and it depends, right?
There's an early, there's an early stage of business where
you might need to reinvest back into your business more.
But so you have, I guess maybe this is a good place to take it.
You have good, better, best goals, yes.
And how do you walk someone through those ebbs and flows of
(23:25):
business? Yeah.
So I think about business developmentally because
background is a psychotherapist kind of just tracks.
So we have different phases of business growth.
And in my mind, we have the building phase.
And this is going to be your most expensive phase because
you're typically having to skillyourself up and school yourself
up on what it takes to run a successful business.
(23:48):
And during this stage, you're likely going to feel like you
have so much money going out andnot as much coming in.
And that is very, very normal. I think when people are in that
phase, they feel like they're failing.
Yeah. And there's going to be startup
cost to any business. So the thing that I usually
refer to is when you're going toget a degree in something,
you're paying all of this money upfront to get that education.
(24:10):
So then you make that money backafter you graduate.
It's very similar in business. When we move out of building
stage, we're very clear and usually what it is that we do
and who it is that we serve. Now we move into the next stage,
which I think is the refining phase.
Now we're refining how we get people the best results.
This is usually when a lot of your methodology is going to
start coming out. If you're a service based
(24:30):
business, which is, you know, myprior expertise and we're
building a lot of systems, we'retrying to systematize things
that are creating more sustainability and capacity in
the business to start serving more people.
In this stage, you're still likely going to have a lot of
investments around some of thosekey concepts of learning how to
build key systems, learning how to.
If you're building group programs, for instance, you
(24:51):
might be investing in curriculumdesign or learning more about
adult learning. How can you create the best
possible program with the best possible outcomes?
OK. Once we have that built, then we
move into the next stage, which I see as streamlining.
That's when we're really starting to think about how does
everything we're off we're offering fit together?
How, what does my offer suite look like?
(25:11):
How do we create this organic sales engine in my business?
So one offer is really selling into the next and all of those
things. Here you're really focusing on
marketing and messaging. So again, you might have some
investments that are directly related to that if you're
noticing an education gap here. But in the streamlining stage,
you're usually starting to invest less and start to put
(25:33):
more money into team. So that's going to support the
operations of your business. And then the last stage in my
mind is that then we're ready toscale.
OK? So scaling up is now we have
everything built and we're really ready to serve more
people. And here you're probably going
to see more money be spent in advertising to grill your
audience to get enough reach to really support your scaling
(25:54):
revenue goals. But your team, we really want to
keep lean in that season. You're not really in reinvesting
a lot into your education at this point because you're
skilled up and schooled up on what it really needs, right?
So a lot of that money is going to go into ads.
And we have margins that breakdown.
Like most small businesses are going to be spending like
anywhere from like 7 to 10% of their revenue on marketing,
(26:16):
depending on their marketing strategy.
We like to see businesses depending on the type of
business to be somewhere around 5:00 to really make sure that
you're getting that ROI from your ad spend before you start
scaling that up. So that's how I think about it.
And I think it's really important to think that there's
these three different stages that come before we even think
about scaling. And so many times you're like,
(26:37):
I'm just ready to scale. I'm like, no, you're not, no,
not not even close. You're not.
That's. That I love the way that you
describe those stages. And so the question back to you
today, the listener is what stage are you in?
And give yourself full acknowledgement and grace and
ownership of that stage. Because if you're anything like
(26:59):
me as a dreamer, money personality, I hop onto all
these different websites or I'lllook at Instagram or
Entrepreneur magazine or whatever, which I've been
featured in. And I'm like, well, I'm not
there yet. And then I'm like pissed.
And I want to skip steps, but you can't skip steps.
You can't and it'll come back tobite you if you try and scale
(27:20):
too soon because you don't have the infrastructure yet to
support the things will start tobreak if you try and skip over
steps. And the people that usually
suffer, well, one, you're going to suffer because you're going
to feel stressed out. And two, your client results
also tend to suffer because you're just stretched too thin.
And so you don't ever want to let that be the variable that
falls because that's the thing that all of your business is
(27:42):
really built upon is your clientoutcomes, that word of mouth,
the way people think about your brands and the trust that you've
built with your people. That's right, that's right.
So hone your craft first. Yes, right, yes.
And I think from like a timing perspective, it's really hard.
You know, I would say if you're like super clear, depends on how
long you stay in the building stage, honestly, because I think
(28:04):
a lot of times people are like, oh, I'll be in the building
stage in year one that can actually last from one to three
years. Because you might serve, you
might think that you have clarity on this is what I want
to be doing and this is who I want to be serving.
And then as you start to deliverthat work, you're like, this
isn't quite it or something elsewill show up in your life that
you want to weave into how you're supporting people.
So that can take some time to really get that dialed in.
(28:26):
And then refining depending on what past experience and
education you're bringing to that process, right, that could
also take a couple of years. And so I think like the scaling
stage realistically is like the earliest I think is year 7 or 8
obviously. I agree, which is so, so real.
Thank you for being real and honest because this is what
(28:48):
people need to know. This is what my clients need to
know. This is what women need to know
is that it's going to take time for a reason.
It's not because you suck. It's not because you're not
great at what you do. It's not because you're destined
for failure. It's just that it takes time.
And in all of the research that I've done, it's a 10 year
(29:09):
window. It there is not, there is no
such thing as an overnight success.
Yes, the first person I worked with on money, this was back in
like 2019 I think she told me because I was so in my head that
I should be further along by now.
And that is one of the worst things for us to say to
(29:30):
ourselves. But I was just stuck in this and
I just felt so defeated. I felt like I was a failure.
And she said, Megan, usually it's going to take seven years
for a business to have any levelof like, consistent, sustainable
cash flow. And it took me 6 years because,
right, we had the big shift in 2018.
But it took me some time to get that to happen over and over and
(29:51):
over and over again. So I'm so glad that she said
that to me because I'm kind of the person, like, if you tell me
how much it's actually going to take, I have that personal
resolve of like, OK, I can be committed to that process.
And I have a very different expectation of when I should be
seeing these results. Yeah, it's so honest and so real
and so important, because if someone's telling you anything
(30:14):
other than this, they're just trying to sell you into their
program. Yes, because faster is always
better, yeah. And it's bullshit.
It's bullshit, bullshit. It's bullshit because you again,
going back to your nervous system too, you're, you're in
the experience process of $100 million.
I've seen you say that. I don't exactly know what that
(30:34):
means. I'll help.
Hopefully you can break that down.
But I can imagine you've needed to expand your capacity.
You've needed to expand your nervous system in order to be
able to receive that call it in.What's that been like to go from
$60,000 a year to evaluation? And it's not, I'm, I mean to be
clear, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean $100 million in
(30:55):
cash flow, but it's evaluation ultimately of how this whole app
and fintech is going for you. So what's that journey been like
for you? Yeah.
Let me break down where that 100million is coming from.
So first of all, when you move from being a business owner to
being a founder, these are two very different roles and I was
not prepared for that at all. A small business owner is
(31:18):
someone who doesn't necessarily have the vision of building
multiple, multiple, multiple $1,000,000 to have an exit one
day of selling their company fora billion, right?
Let's, but that's not how small businesses operate.
A startup is a very different animal where you are looking at
that type of scale. And so it was last year that I
went and applied for a very big grant opportunity.
(31:40):
You could win up to 150,000 is the most competitive grant in
the state. And I said, you know what, I
think I have a shot at this and I'm going to apply.
And so part of that application process is I had to build out a
business plan, which is different than a revenue plan.
OK, so I build out revenue plansall day, every day.
A business plan is much more thorough.
I had to YouTube what all goes into a successful business plan.
(32:03):
And there were three numbers that I had to calculate, which
are called your Tam, Sam and Sam.
And these three numbers really clarify your total addressable
market. How many people in the world or
in your niche could actually useyour products?
OK, Then you have to go to your Sam, which is your serviceable,
addressable market. Out of all the people who could
(32:23):
use this, how many people are you likely to serve?
OK, Then you have to do the third calculation, which is your
sum, and that is your serviceable obtainable market.
So how many of these people are we likely to actually capture,
OK and serve? And so the numbers start out
really, really big and get smaller.
And what somebody told me is that if your sum, so the
(32:46):
smallest number is not at least a billion dollars with AB.
OK, Yeah, I don't even have a shot at getting investors
getting this grant. And I always said I'm coming
from an industry where $1,000,000 business is a big
deal and now we're talking abouta billion.
So I had to look at the numbers and we when I calculated that
number, we were at 2 billion with our sum.
(33:09):
So I was like, OK, this is the first paradigm shift.
OK, So then I had to say, OK, that that could be where we end
up. But now I have to run my
financial projections of the next five years because that's
another part of the business plan.
So before I sat down to look at any of this and do any of these
calculations, I thought dream Money might be a 5 million, $10
million company, which is still amazing for any woman
(33:31):
entrepreneur. We were at 5 million in year 1.
Like once we got our product to market, we were at 100 million
by Year 5 if we hit all of our targets.
And the thing that really broke my brain is that for us to be at
100 million, we only have to support 2% of women owned
business owners who need this 2%.
(33:54):
So that's where that $100 million, that number is coming
from. But I'll never forget when I was
looking at that and doing all the math, like Lisa, I did the
calculations like 5 times. I'm like, I've never played with
this many zeros, like something must be wrong.
But once I knew, like there's nomistakes.
I remember there was a very distinct moment of like, OK,
Megan, like this is how big thiscan be.
(34:17):
You've never done anything this big.
Are you game to take this on? And I really sat with that
because I'm like, can I be the person that takes that on?
And that was the day that I committed to this of saying, OK,
whatever is going to be asked ofme, whoever needs to come across
my path, like whatever this is going to look like, I am willing
to just let's go for it. Like, what is the worst thing
(34:39):
that can happen? And so we've really been on that
journey ever since. That's amazing.
I, I call these butt sweat moments like literally when,
when these things happen in my life, my, I like sweat all over
the place. What is the work that you've
done in your nervous system to be able to stay on this path and
(34:59):
and track it and still be a present mom and still connected
to Dream Money Live the lifestyle that you want to live.
Yeah. So very similarly, like when I'm
coaching someone around steppinginto different price points, the
way the nervous system works forme is that we can think
something intellectually, but wereally need it to register in
(35:20):
our body and our somatics. Yeah.
And the way that I have done that is that I have to verbalize
things out loud. I can't just think about the
number. I have to start saying the
number. And so when we're talking about
a price point, I will tell my clients and they think I'm
probably totally nuts, but I sayI want you to walk around your
house and say your new price point out loud.
It's $1500 a month to work with me.
(35:40):
It's $2000 a month to work with me.
Whatever your number is, I want your nervous system to totally
freak out the first time you sayit.
And I want you to have all the fields, like, Oh my God, I can't
believe I'm charging that. Like, Oh my God, are people
going to pay it whatever the nervous system does?
Yeah. And then I want you to keep
going until you can say that newprice point.
Like it's saying the sky is blue.
That's how I want your nervous system to respond.
(36:02):
There's nothing to respond to. It just is what it is.
We've taken the emotional component out of it, right?
That's been one of the strategies that I've used here.
And I first shared this $100 million vision at a conference
that I was speaking at last September.
And I remember sitting in that chair of like, can I say it?
Because what are people going tothink?
(36:23):
That was the first thought that I had.
Who is this girl who thinks she can build this $100 million
business? Or I was afraid that people
would compare like, oh, my dreams aren't big enough because
they're not I, I never want people to feel like they're not
pursuing something big for them.So big is relative, you know?
But I took a deep breath and I shared it and I've been sharing
(36:45):
it ever since for part of my ownnervous system regulation work.
I'm just reminding myself like, this is what we're building and
it's OK to say it. It's OK to claim it, and it's OK
to remind yourself of your vision publicly.
It is. Yes, yeah, I love that.
Thank you for sharing that. Of course, This has been so
great. This has been so great.
Yeah, I'm so grateful that you're here.
(37:07):
And I, I know that whoever is benefiting from this
conversation is taking these takeaways from you.
So let's shift gears and talk about calling women forward.
Yes. I believe without a shadow of a
doubt, and I heard it. I heard it last night.
I heard a guy say this last night and I was like, yes, that
for the world to heal, it is going to require women to lean
(37:32):
in, to step up, but not in the masculine.
It's going to require us to claim and own.
And I truly believe this to my core, that when women are in
financial ownership of the world, everything will change.
And we are in that century of ithappening.
We are in the moment and you aretaking the lead.
(37:53):
I'm in. I'm taking the lead in my way.
What's one small but powerful disruption any woman can make in
her career and Business Today? The.
First thing that comes to me is that you have to trust yourself
to take risk. And what feels risky right now
might feel so small and silly that it feels risky and do it
anyway. Because the minute you start to
(38:14):
take the risks that feel risky for you, the more capacity
you're going to build to take bigger risks later.
And I firmly believe that we're not going to create the world
that we want to see until we getcomfortable being risky.
That's right. Yeah, that's right.
I love that. I love that.
And then attract people in your life who are going to support
you and taking the risks. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
On the front end and then on theback end, because you will have
(38:37):
a vulnerability hangover sometimes.
Can I really do this right? Like there's so many times I've
taken a big leap and like that 5minutes of bravery or five
seconds of bravery, I'm like, I totally got this.
And I say yes to the thing. And then like literally an hour
later I'm like, Oh my God, yes to like, can I really do this?
Like you need your scaffolding. You really, really do.
You do, and it's going to take money to get there.
(38:59):
Yes. Do not be delusional about that.
It's going to take money and probably way more than you think
it's going to. So learn how to arm up and level
up financially. Yes, yeah.
We live in a system where money equates to options, freedom,
power, decision making. And I know in the beginning, I
didn't want that to be true, andI wanted to create something
(39:22):
different. But then I realized in order for
us to create something different, we have to play these
rules and win at the same game so we can change things from the
top. That's right.
So And that has been very freeing for me, honestly, of
partnering with money, seeing itas the way through.
Yeah. And that's just a beautiful type
of relationship for you to be cultivating anyway.
(39:42):
The money's really on your side.It's on your team.
It's like here to help you do amazing things in the world.
That's right. We, we, I love not the nonprofit
model and it does such great work in the world.
And for those giver money personalities out there, why not
just start your own business andown it from the top and make the
impact from the top. And it doesn't have to be a
(40:06):
nonprofit to be impactful. When women look back on this
generation of entrepreneurs, what do you hope they'll say
about the way we have changed the narrative around money and
business? Love these questions.
They're like, they're like thought provokers.
I hope that women will have transformed the way that money
is often demonized and seen as something that's taboo and that
(40:28):
if you want money, it means something about you that we
don't do to men. We typically tend to do it only
to women. That we have changed the
narrative so much that women talking about money, wanting
money, making money, holding money, giving money, all the
things is like the most normal thing in the world.
Yeah, Yeah, I want that too. Well, you and I are going to
(40:51):
lead the way on that. Yes.
We are leading the way on that. Yes, it's happening.
Like we're literally in process of it right now, Yeah.
OK so for a little fun my one ofmy favorite road trip games or
friendship games is this or that.
OK. I play, I've played it with like
first and 2nd graders who absolutely love it.
(41:11):
So let's tap into our inner child here for a moment and
we're going to do rapid fire this or that.
Are you ready? Yes.
OK. Beach day or mountain escape.
Mountain escape, Ziplining or yoga retreat.
Ziplining. You're my girl, Champagne.
Hold. That is really hard.
I'm gonna go tequila. Heels or sneakers?
(41:36):
I've really been loving my heelslately.
I'm actually gonna go heels. First class flight or private
villa? Private villa.
Karaoke night or silent disco? I just did my first silent disco
a couple weeks ago. It was so fun.
Bookstore browse or Netflix Netflix binge.
Netflix bench. Sunrise meditation or midnight
(41:56):
brainstorm? Sunrise.
Bold lipstick or no makeup glow.Bold lipstick.
Cash flow now or long term wealth later?
Long term wealth. Risk it all or play it
calculated. We all know the answer to this
one. We're worth risking at all.
We're going all in. Grow faster, grow steady study.
(42:18):
I love that. Where can people find you and
how can they subscribe to Dream Money today?
Yes, so. I am most active on my
meganhale.co.instagramwehaveadreammoney.co.onebutmoreitsjustkindofthereforrightnowyoucanlearnmoreaboutourproduct@dreammoney.coand there's two ways of joining
Dream Money, either on a quarterly subscription which is
(42:40):
297 or you can join yearly for 997, get two months free.
Plus, we have some one-on-one bonuses offered at that level
too, to really incentivize. One of the biggest reasons that
we want to incentivize the yearly subscription is 1.
It's great for cash flow for a startup.
I don't want to be very transparent about that because
it's very expensive to build software.
(43:00):
But the second reason is I'm sure you'll agree with this.
When it comes to creating financial change in your life
and in your business, this is something that's it's going to
take some time. And so having a framework that's
supporting you, having a processand a practice that are
supporting you, that's what's going to lead to the highest
outcomes. And so that is why we really
want to see more people saying yes to dream money for a year.
(43:21):
And the outcome is that you'll have dream money at the end of
this thing, which stands for deliberate, reliable, easeful,
abundant, meaningful money, by the way.
Who doesn't want that? Exactly.
Maybe you didn't know you wantedthat, but now you're like.
Yes, I want that. That's exactly.
That is what we want for you. We want you to live your best
(43:42):
life, leading from the top of your life financially.
This software works when you work with it.
Yes. You cannot.
Please take this today and implement it in your own life.
You cannot outsource your dreams.
You cannot outsource your numbers, but you can play with
it and enjoy it. And that is what Dream Money is
(44:05):
here to do, is to teach you the method so that you can see that
it's possible and then you can go do it.
Megan, thank you so much for being here today.
Thank you so much for having me.Yeah, and what's one thing you
want to leave with our community?
I think the one thing that I want to leave is no matter how
money is feeling for you currently right now, just know
that change is possible because I see it every single day.
(44:27):
But it comes from really showingup, taking the risk to get
uncomfortable and doing the work, and all of us have access
to that. Yeah, we do.
All right. You heard it from Megan.
You know where to find her. Follow your dreams.
They are absolutely worth it. Nothing is too big.
Everything is possible. And we'll see you next time on
REAL MONEY. Thanks for joining us.
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