Real Organic Podcast

#251: Michael Pollan joins Dave Chapman for a wide-ranging conversation on the state of food, health, and the organic movement. Pollan reflects on his friendship with Joan Gussow, her prophetic warnings about industrial agriculture, and her influence on his landmark books The Omnivore’s Dilemma and In Defense of Food. Together, they discuss the meaning of real food, the reductionism of modern nutrition science, and the forgotten ro...

#250: Farmer, activist, and Real Organic ally Karen Washington joins Dave Chapman to talk about her decades-long fight for food justice and her friendship with food systems pioneer Joan Gussow Karen traces her journey from growing up in the Bronx projects to co-founding Rise & Root Farm, a women-led, LGBTQ+ and BIPOC cooperative in New York’s Hudson Valley. Together, they discuss how small farms, community gardens, and food jus...

#249: Florida blueberry farmer Hugh Kent of King Grove Organic Farm shares the story of how corporate power and USDA negligence nearly drove his organic farm out of business - and how he saved it through direct marketing. Speaking at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Hugh connects the dots between monopoly economics, antitrust failures, hydroponic loopholes, and the collapse of fair markets for soil-grown frui...

#248: Pioneer organic farmer Eliot Coleman returns to the Real Organic Podcast to share the ideas behind his newest book, The Self-Fed Farm and Garden: A Return to the Roots of the Organic Method. In conversation with Real Organic Project co-director Dave Chapman, Eliot explains how farms can thrive without imported manure or compost — using soil-improving crops and long-term green manures to build fertility from within. The discus...

#247: This week, we celebrate the life and work of Joan Gussow, the visionary nutritionist whose thinking transformed how many understand the connection between soil, food, and health. You'll hear from many food systems activists and thinkers, including Michael Pollan, Barbara Kingsolver, Alice Waters, Karen Washington, Dan Barber and Pam Koch as they share personal memories of Joan’s mentorship and reflect how her revolutiona...

#246: In this talk from the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Emily Oakley explains why so many small-scale, soil-based farms are dropping USDA certification - and why the time may be right for Real Organic Project to pursue its own standalone label. A founding farmer of our movement and former NOSB member, Emily asks one of the most urgent questions in the organic movement today: Can small farms still trust the U...

#245: Recorded live at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy on September 27, 2025, co-directors Linley Dixon and Dave Chapman share a joint message about the future of organic farming and our movement’s next chapter. Linley exposes how USDA inaction has eroded organic integrity - from fraudulent grain imports to hydroponic berries - while Dave reflects on the legacy of pioneers like Fred Kirschenmann and Joan Guss...

#244: Montana farmer and author Bob Quinn believes the cure for chronic disease begins in the soil. His research comparing ancient and modern wheat varieties has led him to found his own 600 acre institute in the middle of his organic grain farm. Here Bob catches up with Dave to share an update on his White House meeting with Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins and Secretary of Health RFK Jr and about rethinking agriculture as ...

#243: Celebrated historian of science and author of Merchants of Doubt Naomi Oreskes exposes how powerful corporations distort science to protect profits, by using scientists who seek to promote their personal ideologies. She draws the lines between climate denial, food system disinformation, and the fight to preserve soil-based organic farming. This conversation is a call to defend both science and farming integrity against corpor...

#242: Abby Rockefeller has spent her life pushing back against the toxic legacy of sewage sludge. In this interview, she unpacks how America’s sewer systems pollute water, contaminate farmland, and endanger farmers and eaters alike. From compost toilets to PFAS contamination, Abby makes the case for radically rethinking our waste and a returning to systems that support soil, water, and life.

https://realorganicproject.org/abby-rocke...

#241: Johanna Davis and Adam Nordell built their farm from scratch, growing vegetables and grains while weaving their community together through food and place. But after more than a decade of farming, they discovered their land, water, and bodies were poisoned by PFAS chemicals -  “forever chemicals” spread decades earlier as sewage sludge billed as fertilizer. Their journey reveals the devastating impact of toxic contamination on...

#240: Barbara Kingsolver reflects on her lifelong connection to food, her friendship with Joan Gussow, and the spiritual, cultural, and political meaning of how we eat. She shares why fiction can change hearts, why capitalism has reshaped food culture, and why hope is a responsibility we must practice every day.

https://realorganicproject.org/barbara-kingsolver-ode-to-joan-gussow-240

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman...

#239: California organic farmer and Del Cabo cooperative founder Larry Jacobs returns to discuss why organic farming must remain firmly rooted in soil and not bend to allow hydroponics. Larry’s proven commitment to integrity comes through via his role in a lawsuit against the USDA over the inclusion of hydroponics under the organic seal, as well as his efforts to educate his staff about the issues facing the organic movement, beyon...

#238: Cameron Molberg of Greener Pastures Chicken shares how he’s building a vertically integrated model for pasture-raised organic chicken  without cutting corners - as is typically done with the majority of usda organic labeled poultry found in chain supermarkets. From animal welfare to USDA loopholes, and feed fraud to school lunch programs, Cameron lays out the challenges and opportunities of scaling real organic poultry in a s...

#237: In this follow-up conversation, Dick Schwartz, founder of Internal Family Systems therapy, speaks with Dave about how IFS applies far beyond the therapy room. Together, they explore the “middle way” in activism - finding courage and clarity without being consumed by rage or fear. From conflicts in the Middle East to economic inequality and corporate power, Schwartz explains how healing our inner parts can ripple outward to tr...

#236 - Small-scale, diversified farmer Emily Oakley returns to share her evolving philosophy on farming, business, and life as she continues to align her daily work with her personal value system. From growing fertility on the farm instead of relying on purchased inputs, to adapting to climate challenges, to finding a sustainable rhythm between work and personal life, Emily offers candid reflections on what it means to grow food wi...

#235 - Steve Ela, longtime organic fruit grower and former NOSB member, reflects on the shift from chemical farming to a biological mindset. He shares lessons from decades of growing tree fruit in Colorado, and why soil health, systems thinking, and real food matter more than ever in the fight for organic integrity.

https://realorganicproject.org/steve-ela-organic-isnt-linear-episode-235

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Cha...

#234 - In our second episode swap with the Market Gardener Podcast, JM Fortier and co-host Chris Moran sit down with Dave Chapman and trade insights on decentralization, food politics, and how organic values can thrive in today's shifting agricultural landscape. From health and climate to corporate consolidation, their reflections connect farming and activism in powerful ways.

https://realorganicproject.org/episode-swap-jm-fort...

#233 - Nicole Dehne, director of Vermont Organic Farmers, shares what it means to uphold real integrity in a shifting organic landscape. From hydroponics and organic standards to the struggles of small farms, she explains how certifiers like VOF are fighting to preserve the original values of organic - transparency, soil health, and farmer-driven accountability - in a system increasingly influenced by industrial interests.

https://r...