March 9, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen are joined by Deanne Gage, a seasoned personal finance reporter for Globe Advisor. The discussion delves into the multifaceted aspects of retirement beyond finances, focusing on topics like evolving workmate relationships, family dynamics, loneliness, and the importance of having a plan before retiring. Deanne shares her insights from over two decades of reporting on personal finance, discussing the importance of understanding life transitions, the varied visions couples might have for retirement, and how advisors can play a crucial role in helping their clients navigate these challenges.
00:00 Navigating Post-Retirement Friendships
01:26 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show
02:10 Introducing Deanne Gage
04:14 Unexpected Early Retirement
05:41 Realities of Retirement: Divorce and Aging Parents
09:58 The Loneliness Epidemic in Retirement
21:57 Advisors' Role Beyond Finances
31:08 Personal Stories and Final Thoughts
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Episode Transcript
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Deanne Gage (00:00):
In one of the things in my article that I
mentioned was about workmates,because there are a number of
people who figure well, I'lljust get together with.
My workmates, like I did before,only I don't have the stress of
the job anymore.
Not realizing that those werethe things that binds, the
friendship You're not in thetrenches anymore, so you don't
really necessarily relate to thesame scenarios anymore.
(00:23):
So yeah, it's fine to gettogether with a workmate from
time to time, but it's probablynot going to be Often anymore.
So as you say, yes, you're goingto have to sort of evolve and
find other friendships.
Through volunteering, throughshared activities, but that can
be difficult for people too.
(00:44):
It's just, if you aren't reallysure how to proceed with that,
which is why it's important tohave some sort of a plan before
you even retire, if there's ahobby, for example, that you've
always been passionate about andwanted to get off the ground,
rather than waiting forretirement, not a bad idea to
start right before, To makesure, in fact, that this is
(01:04):
something that is going to keepyou going for the eight hours a
day, if you will, because maybeit's not your passion.
Maybe you're like, yeah, it's,it's not something that's going
to sustain, right?
But if you start it before,maybe you start a network at the
same time, get to know people.
And at least you have somethingto retire to.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:26):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:46):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:10):
today we have a special guest.
Our special guest is Deanne Gageand Deanne is a reporter for the
Globe Advisor at Globe and Mail.
She has specialized in personalfinance issues for more than two
decades.
Her articles have also appearedin the Toronto Star,
Morningstar.
(02:31):
ca, Chatelaine.
Is that right, Deanne?
Morning Sense and Today's Parentform and Advisors Edge.
So we're delighted to have you.
Welcome Deanne.
Thank you so much for being herewith us.
Well,
Deanne Gage (02:48):
here.
Yasmin Nguyen (02:49):
Deanne, we would love for you to share a little
bit about your personal careerjourney and what's led to where
you are today.
Deanne Gage (02:58):
Sure.
thanks again for having me.
I have been reporting onfinance, personal finance for
the past two decades.
when I started covering theindustry, I was pretty young at
that time.
And frankly, the advisors wereyounger.
The clients that they wereserving were very much in the
(03:18):
accumulation phase of theirsaving, meaning they were saving
up for retirement.
So a lot of the stories that Ireported on at that time were
about ways to make sure you haveenough money to save for
retirement.
Now, two decades later, what I'mfinding is people have enough
(03:41):
money for their retirement.
But they're not really sure ofwhat retirement looks like.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:46):
that's such a big topic to these days.
we're so many of us are takingthe time working with advisors
to prepare.
That financial security piece.
But oftentimes we do overlookthe life transitions that
happen.
And I remember Deanna in arecent conversation, we had
that, you're working on aspecial project right now where
you're exploring what causespeople to retire early.
(04:08):
could you share a little bitabout that project that you're
working on and what sort ofinsights you've discovered so
far,
Deanne Gage (04:15):
So back to even 20 years ago when I first started
covering, retirement trends, atthat time there was a lot of ads
like Freedom 55, older coupleson the yacht are, going to
exotic locales.
Two decades later now, presentday, a lot of people are
retiring and a lot of people aremaintaining that lifestyle, but
(04:35):
there's a fair number of peoplewho are not, who have been
forced to retire early due tolife curveballs that have
happened.
By life curveballs, perhapsthere was a divorce, which cut
into their nest egg.
Perhaps there's, there were somehealth care challenges either
with themselves or their spouseor even a child.
(04:58):
Perhaps there was a job loss oftheir adult child and they were
called to help with, raisingtheir grandchildren.
these are some of the issuesthat can come up.
And people are glad, obviously,to, to deal with these life
curveballs as they come up, butat the same time, it's not the
retirement that they envisioned.
(05:21):
Oh, and another big one iscaring for aging parents.
And, A lot of people, decide toretire early and they think,
okay, I'm going to spend sometime caring for my aging
parents, but I'll still havesome time to do things on my
bucket list.
But the aging parents, care istaking a lot more than they
would have anticipated when theymade the decision to retire
early.
Kathleen Mundy (05:40):
Deanne.
Some of what we're talking aboutare the realities of what the
real retirement journey iscompared to what they thought
And what are the majordifferences when you have
conversations with people, whenyou're interviewing them, if you
could just share with us acouple of stories on what those
might be.
Deanne Gage (05:57):
Sure.
let's take divorce as anexample.
perhaps a couple has beenmarried a really long time and,
Both spouses or maybe one spousethinks that they are working
towards the same page as theother spouse.
They assume they're going toretire together.
They have the same vision fortravel or what have you, but
maybe the other spouse feels themarriage has run its course, has
(06:22):
a different vision completely.
I hear clients talking aboutbeing blindsided, by the spouse
deciding to file for divorce.
I don't necessarily subscribe tothat theory, but it may be more
that they were working towards.
Different goals all along.
(06:42):
And they assumed that theirgoals were similar, but that
wasn't really the case.
So, they divorce and there'sless money to do what they want.
And suddenly maybe you can'tafford to live in the city.
That you want in the house thatyou want, you have to downsize
to a condo, perhaps you have toleave the city or a town that
(07:04):
you've lived in your whole lifecompletely just to be able to
afford to have some semblance ofa retirement.
Kathleen Mundy (07:13):
Those seem like really impractical obstacles to
overcome, and certainly it wouldshake your foundation if you
found yourself in that positionwithout having any
communication.
No one wants to be blindsided atall.
So, can imagine how devastatingthat would be.
Deanne Gage (07:31):
Another example would be, let's go back to the
aging parents.
what I hear quite a bit is, justthe.
vast underestimating of how muchtime it requires to be a
caregiver to your aging parents.
Perhaps down the road theythought, I'll enroll my parents
in a long term care facility.
(07:54):
Perhaps I'll get some help forthem to offset the help that I
am providing.
Both of those options are veryexpensive.
And frankly, it can be veryhard, even if you can afford it,
it can be very hard to find theright fit.
So a lot of people grasping withthat as well.
(08:17):
yes, retirement isn't what Ithought it would be.
I'm spending all my time being acaregiver.
when is there time for me?
Yasmin Nguyen (08:23):
That's something that I can so relate with.
I am part time taking care of myparents who are in their 80s as
well.
And my sister, thank goodness,is just down the street and she,
is incredibly supportive.
we've got doctor's appointmentsalmost every week and there's
also an emotional toll.
That, that happens along the wayas, in addition to the time
(08:44):
that, impacts our experience.
I know Kathleen, you've, takenon that type of role as well.
Kathleen Mundy (08:51):
Yes, Yasmin, I have.
And I have to be really honest.
Looking at it, my background isbusiness.
So for me, it's always bottomline and I'm always very
conscientious of expenses andprojections.
And we have been absolutelyblessed because my mother in law
is 96.
And in the journey that she'shad with, a retirement home and
(09:15):
consequential, changes, thecost, as you mentioned, is
escalating each and every year.
And it's incredibly difficult tofind a good fit as well.
So, those stressors, in additionto perhaps subsidizing some of
these costs, um, can only addburdens and quite frankly I can
(09:36):
see where, being very honesthere, how that might accelerate
the option of divorce.
because those are the kinds ofthings that come up
unexpectedly, you don'tnecessarily plan for them.
yet those are things in lifethat you have to deal with and
their responsibilities that Ibelieve as a family, you need
to, um, step into
Yasmin Nguyen (09:59):
Now, Deanne, I remember you mentioning in one
of your articles that anotherchallenge that typically comes
up in retirement is the sense ofloneliness.
And I was curious to learn alittle bit more of why that was
an important topic for you tocover.
And also, what were some of thekey insights that you gained as
(10:19):
you were researching and writingthat particular article?
Deanne Gage (10:24):
Yes, definitely a very key issue in retirement.
It tends to come about when youdon't have a plan for what you
want to do in the next chapterof your life.
There's a number of people wholook forward to retiring.
They've worked their whole life.
frankly, a lot of them are burntout and they figure when they
(10:48):
retire, they'll figure out whatthe plan is once they retire.
But what happens is the daysbecome weeks, which become
months and years, and there'sstill no plan.
And meanwhile, years gone by,you've watched all the TV.
Maybe you've got together withfriends for lunch from time to
(11:08):
time, played the occasional gameof golf or tennis or what have
you, but you've discovered thatthe days are pretty long.
you have to fill a whole dayand, work used to take up a lot
of your time and it's, you haveto have a plan to how you're
going to fill up those 8 to 10hours.
I found through my research thatit was especially an issue.
(11:30):
For men, because what advisorshave found is that women tend to
keep up with friendships orfamily.
They were always the people whoorganized the social events in
their lives.
And if they had a spouse, ahusband, for example, the
(11:52):
husband would just go along withwhatever his wife.
Had planned, but what happensis, especially if the man is now
divorced, now widowed, there'sno one there to really fill that
role anymore.
And they, they just have to haveissues with how to plan with
(12:13):
that.
Because the other thing is thatthey may be very, Good at
getting together with friendsthrough like minded activities,
say, golf, tennis, hockey,sports.
But one thing that advisorsfound is that's only good for so
long because when your bodycatches up with you as you get
(12:33):
older, maybe you can't do thoseactivities with any other
people.
Real frequency anymore, andbecause the friendships in those
cases was based around a sharedactivity.
They didn't really go deeperthan that.
So there's no really, there's noreal glue to keep it to keep
things together.
Yasmin Nguyen (12:52):
I can imagine that when we're in our careers
and work or work world, thatthere's this constant flow of
new potential relationships thatget developed.
There's, ways to meet new peopleand get introduced to different
circles as well.
But once we've stepped out ofthat particular, phase, it seems
(13:13):
unless we're proactive aboutgetting out there and meeting
new people, slowly as, like youmentioned, our bodies start to
decline and we're withdrawingfrom some of those activities,
we're finding out our circlescontinue to get smaller And
we're not replacing or at least,introducing new relationships in
our lives.
Deanne Gage (13:32):
In one of the things in my article that I
mentioned was about workmates,because there are a number of
people who figure well, I'lljust get together with.
my workmates, like I did before,only I don't have the stress of
the job anymore.
Not realizing that those werethe things that tie the binds,
like the ties that people, thebasis that kept the friendship
(13:53):
going, if you will.
You're not in the trenchesanymore, so you don't really
necessarily relate to the samescenarios anymore.
So yeah, it's fine to gettogether with a workmate from
time to time, but it's probablynot going to be Often anymore.
So as you say, yes, you're goingto have to sort of evolve and
(14:14):
find other friendships.
Through volunteering, throughshared activities, but that can
be difficult for people too.
It's just, if you aren't reallysure how to proceed with that,
which is why it's important tohave some sort of a plan when,
before you even retire, ifthere's a hobby, for example,
(14:35):
that you've always beenpassionate about and wanted to
get off the ground, rather thanwaiting for retirement, not a
bad idea to start right before,To make sure, in fact, that this
is something that is going tokeep you going for the eight
hours a day, if you will,because maybe it's not your
passion.
maybe you start a network at thesame time, get to know people.
(14:55):
And at least you have somethingto retire to.
Kathleen Mundy (14:58):
Deanna, one of the things you mentioned a
little while ago, fell into whatwe call and categorize family
dynamic when all of a suddenchildren return home or you're
faced with the need to, helpWith child care, grandparents
helping with grandchildren, howdo you, or how did you find, the
(15:19):
conversation evolved when youwere doing research about that
particular aspect of theretirement journey?
Deanne Gage (15:26):
Yeah, it's funny.
Many advisors mentioned thatwith their clients, there was a
great divide between, mothersand fathers, especially, uh,
mothers wanted to financiallyhelp their adult children.
They wanted to take a moreactive role in the
grandchildren's lives.
Not to say that the fathersdidn't want to do that as well,
(15:48):
but it wasn't.
Necessarily a primary focus forthe fathers.
They still wanted to take thatbig trip and they saw that as
more of a priority.
whereas if, children needed theassistance, they were willing to
do it, but not only to a certainextent.
So that also raises a good pointof another article that I did,
(16:12):
which looked at couples.
And they're differing views ofretirement and what they like,
what it looks like.
And that's one of the examplesof that.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:22):
What were some of the differences that, that you
discovered as it relates to the,their visions for retirement?
Deanne Gage (16:29):
So okay, grandchildren would be one.
The biggest one would be when toretire.
So you may have a situationwhere one spouse wants to retire
yesterday.
Another spouse perhaps is reallystill going strong in their
career and it's not just notready.
The one spouse retires, theother still keeps working.
(16:54):
What's that dynamic look like athome?
Who's responsible for householdchores during that time?
Issues like that.
Should even if both of them doretire, perhaps one of the
spouses was, The one that wasresponsible for household
management for, uh, the durationof their marriage.
(17:17):
So both spouses decide toretire.
There's still that householdmanagement piece that has to
take place.
Is it a much of a retirement forthe person who always managed
that if they're still doing itall?
these are real issues that comeup with people and they're not
discussed or they don't tend tobe discussed until you're in it.
(17:39):
And if they're not resolved,then.
It could lead to divorce.
Kathleen Mundy (17:45):
Well, Yasmin, do you recall when we did a focus
group, this exact circumstancewas highlighted by one of the
attendees.
And, brought every point thatyou've just made to light at
that time.
And it's absolutely consistentwith what their feeling was
precisely.
Yasmin Nguyen (18:05):
Yeah, when we're not having these conversations,
there's these expectations ineach partner's mind that can be
conflicting as you shared thereDeanna and that causes an You
know the con conflict and a lotof times I would imagine
sometimes we're not equippedwith how to have those types Of
conversations with each other
Deanne Gage (18:24):
I would concur with that.
we're not equipped with it atall.
And I think for so long,consciously or not, we been
bombarded with those ads of thatcouple on the yacht, on the
dock, in that fancy locale.
And we thought, subconsciously,this is what life will be like,
(18:45):
but the reality has been, um, alot of life curveballs and
frankly, a lot of, internalconflict among spouses, trying
to make things work.
In their next chapter with eachother,
Kathleen Mundy (18:59):
And I, it's interesting.
I had a conversation at a socialsetting last evening and exactly
this happened as well, becauseone partner was able to retire
and yet the other partner said,Whoa, I'm not even close to
wanting to retire.
So there was a real.
I don't want to say push pull,but it was a stumbling block
(19:22):
that, my question to them was,how do you see it resolution
happening?
And they just didn't want totalk about it.
They were just going to let ittry and work itself out.
Have you ever found with yourresearch that was a successful
outcome?
Deanne Gage (19:39):
there does come to be a breaking point at some
point, because if issues areleft to fester, may not be right
away, might be a year or fiveyears down the road.
But I feel like they would needto have a discussion with
somebody, whether it's not theadvisor or counselor to help
them work through the issue.
(20:02):
But I feel like it's only nowwhere people are starting to
talk more about these types ofissues.
My loneliness was something thatI feel it's not a new issue, but
it's being talked about a lotmore, in general, it's been
called the silent killer.
For example, it's not just aboutretirement.
(20:22):
It's about as you get older ingeneral, just people are more
isolated and.
That has a direct impact on yourhealth and also it has to do
with, demographics.
For example, there are more oneperson households than any other
(20:42):
kind of household in Canadaright now.
That's at around twenty nine,thirty percent of one people
living alone.
so those networks, those,networks, that sense of
community become very important.
Yasmin Nguyen (20:58):
That, there's been so much scientific research
that where it has evenarticulated that, loneliness is
becoming a prevalent epidemicthat we're facing in society.
and sometimes it's not justabout.
The number of people that wehave around us, but I've even
experienced situations whereyou're surrounded by people, but
(21:19):
you still feel lonely becausethere's a lack of intimacy or a
deeper connection andunderstanding of perhaps what
you're going through.
Is that something that you'vediscovered as well, Deanne?
Deanne Gage (21:31):
Absolutely.
Finding that deeper connectionwith somebody, especially later
in life.
It's very difficult.
Both parties have to be willingto put the work in and not
everyone is.
And so that definitely can leadto that feeling of isolation.
Yasmin Nguyen (21:51):
I'm curious, Deanne, you've spoken with a lot
of Advisors and professionals.
And what role do you see thatadvisors can play in order to
support their clients, in thistransition or this journey
beyond The financial or theplanning piece of, their
relationship.
Deanne Gage (22:12):
Advisors have started asking more deeper
questions of their clients.
In the past, I feel it was moreabout getting them to the
retirement phase in terms of theactual having the money in
place.
Now that the money is in place,there's a lot more questions,
such as what do you, how do youplan on spending your days in
retirement?
(22:32):
And if they don't have ananswer, trying to drill down.
There are also more advisorsthat are arming their, their
directory with counselors, lifecoaches, relationship coaches,
in addition to the more, triedand true accountants, lawyers,
(22:53):
just to make sure that they havepeople that, their clients can
talk to.
I really feel that there's ashift and they understand the
importance of these issuesbecause if you don't address
them, your retirement is goingto be miserable.
And I think everyone wants tohave something that is
successful.
(23:14):
And yes, you may have to dealwith life curveballs in your
retirement.
But if you can have at leastpart of it be enjoyable, seeing
your friends, going on theoccasional trip, pursuing that
hobby you've always wanted todo.
And that's a good thing.
It's not always, it's not alwayseasy, but what
Kathleen Mundy (23:33):
To the point of having, I guess a team behind a
financial advisor or moneymanager, and you suggest that
they are looking now fortransition coaches or other
helpers that might work withtheir clients.
Do you find it to be an easyprocess for them to find these
solution providers or thesecoaches?
(23:54):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
What is the temperament in thatspace right now?
Deanne Gage (24:04):
a word of mouth type of situation.
So there may be clients who haveworked through issues such as
about isolation, conflict in themarriage, and the advisor may
ask that person for a referralof the professionals who helped
them, just somebody to add onthe directory.
(24:26):
There's a lot of that kind ofthing that may take place.
As well, they may know of themas well, but it's a bit of give
and take.
To be honest, I
Yasmin Nguyen (24:37):
Deanne, Kathleen and I had spoken with a number
of different advisors and,especially in our field of work
here, and it's been aninteresting observation that,
the, there is a curiosity andthere, for a select number of
advisors, there's adoptionaround this more holistic, non
financial relationship withtheir clients.
But what we've observed is thatit's still an emerging market.
(25:00):
There's still a lot of folksthat, are still hesitant to,
have these types ofconversations with your, their
clients.
And I'm curious from yourconversations, What are some
things that hold advisors backfrom crossing that threshold and
having that deeper life planningconversation with their clients?
Deanne Gage (25:22):
think that if you're an advisor who mainly
earns your income by sellingproduct, then you're probably
going to be focused on theassets directly, the
accumulating, and maybestrategies for withdrawing the
money in retirement.
However, if you're acomprehensive financial planner,
(25:44):
perhaps you're paid by the hour.
Thank you.
Or you're paid a percentage ofthe assets.
There's room in there for, likeadvice is, it has, maybe has
nothing to do with money at all.
It may have to do with, may haveto do with life coaching, may
have to do with taxes.
It may have to, that's part ofthe reason why people pay for
professional advice.
It's not just about gatheringthe assets.
(26:06):
And ensuring you have enough.
It's about, I'm lonely and Ihave no idea what I want to do
in retirement.
Is there somebody I can talk toabout this?
Do you have any suggestions forme of seniors groups that I
could meet with?
I could talk, you could talk toyour advisor about that.
And they would be getting paidby the hour or what have you,
(26:27):
but they would be giving youinvaluable advice as invaluable
as if they were recommending aparticular product.
it's still advice.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:37):
imagine that there's an opportunity to
realign some of the reward andincentive structures for
organizations to reinforce, orat least incentivize, these
types of conversations.
and I would also imagine that indoing so it impacts businesses
in a positive way, whether it bedeeper connections, more
referral, retention, and otherways that actually also affects
(27:01):
the, the bottom line of thebusiness.
Deanne Gage (27:03):
I think high end advisors are definitely having
these conversations because theyget it.
They want to understand theirwhole clients.
They understand an engagedclient is a good thing.
An engaged client is going to bea happy client.
Happy client is going to singyour praises as an advisor.
They are going to refer you toother people and say, look what
(27:26):
an advisor did for me.
And it may have nothing to dowith money.
It may have to do with areferral to a life coach that
changed that person's life andmade them have a more successful
retirement.
Kathleen Mundy (27:38):
Oh, I have a quick question then about that.
Just exactly the situation.
If I was a client, whatquestions would I ask if I were
interviewing advisors?
What questions might I pose toensure that I found someone that
would fulfill those needs?
Deanne Gage (27:53):
That's a good question.
I think I would probably want toknow, most clients, they
actually are very concernedabout the money piece.
So if, beyond that, I think theywould probably ask questions.
About how do you ensure, likewhat looks like a successful
(28:16):
retirement to you?
I might ask a question,something like that of the
advisor.
And if the advisor is saying,Oh, having 10 million yacht, the
dock, that's all they talkabout.
Maybe that's a no, but if theperson talks about, level of
engagement, giving back to thecommunity, just different
(28:38):
things.
Then maybe that can, maybe thatwould be a trigger something in
somebody thinking, maybe thisperson can help me to formulate
what I hope will be a successfulretirement for me.
Kathleen Mundy (28:51):
That's an excellent question.
That really is.
Thank you for sharing that withus and for thinking so clearly
on the spot.
Deanne Gage (28:58):
I
Yasmin Nguyen (29:00):
we've covered so much today in just our short
conversation, Deanna, that we'vetouched on the experience of
isolation and loneliness thatretirees unexpectedly, have, as
well as the dynamics of couplesand, the differences that they
might have for their vision ofretirement, as well as those
that may be finding themselvesout.
retiringly, retiringunexpectedly as well.
(29:22):
Are there, is there anythingelse that, that, from your
research and your, conversationsthat you feel is important to,
to share that is the reality ofwhat retirement might be for
some people?
Deanne Gage (29:37):
would hope that advisors would emphasize that
the ideal retirement looksdifferent, depending on the
individual.
retirement doesn't have to beloud and flashy.
A great retirement can begetting together with your group
of friends every morning forcoffee.
Doing some volunteer work,coming home and spending, having
(30:00):
lunch with your spouse, spendingtime, getting through that
mystery series, novels, a seriesof novels that you've been
trying to get through, uh, butnever had the time to do.
It doesn't have to be a bigflashy thing.
I would hope the right advisorwould really drill down with the
(30:21):
client and determine what wouldwork best for them.
Kathleen Mundy (30:26):
I love that answer.
That is the perfect tie a bow onwhat should happen.
And I love that you mentionedthat it doesn't have to be.
Flashy.
It doesn't have to be loud.
I think that's one of the thingsthat many people expect of
others.
what are you going to do nowthat you're retired?
Where are you going to go?
And you almost feel as thoughyou have to decide quickly to
(30:54):
answer that question or they'regoing to think less of you.
But I love the fact I'm going toread that book, I'm going to
spend some time on myself, andthat's really important in life,
especially at this point.
Deanne Gage (31:08):
tell one more story, and this is a personal
one.
My father was retired for 22years.
I saw him retire when I was ateenage and I, this is well
before I would have even beencovering the issue or anything.
But, my parents were divorced atthat newly divorced at that
time.
I think he certainly hadexpectations for what retirement
(31:31):
looked like with my mother andhim were still together, but
they weren't.
So it was just him.
I think he struggled a bit withdeciding what to do first, just
hanging around the house a lot,not doing much of anything.
He was a mechanic, and lovedfixing things.
(31:51):
Just, TVs, VCRs at the time,microwaves, different things
like that.
anyway, in the end, after twoyears of kind of not doing much
of anything, he ended up takinga course, for, in that area,
small engines or something likethat, and then he didn't want to
still work on cars anymore, eventhough that's what he always did
(32:15):
because.
Like working on cars, it's canbe cold in a garage and it can
be hard on your body, but hestill liked fixing things.
And the long and the short of itis he ended up going to work, or
volunteer his time, part time ata fix it shop, fixing people's
microwaves, TVs, and stuff likethat.
(32:38):
And That gave him great pleasureto give back and to help out, to
help mentor the young, theyounger, people fixing the
things because he understoodmore of the older technology
than they did, and it gave him aplace to be honest, for a couple
days a week.
So he's utilizing his skills,helping to mentor.
(33:01):
And it gave him something to doand that helped us springboard
other things that he wanted todo in retirement.
So sometimes it's just figuringout what that one little thing
is that just to help fill yourdays.
Kathleen Mundy (33:16):
that ticked all the boxes for him and many of
them that we discuss, with ourgroup and thank you so much for
that story, because that reallysums up exactly what we're
hoping everyone can do is find aplan and initiate a The
beginning of that plan and younever know where it'll take you.
And as you said, it took him to,to areas, whether it be meeting
(33:37):
new friends or, initiating newconversations and mentorship,
which is delightful.
that's a wonderful thing that hewas able to plan and execute.
Yasmin Nguyen (33:47):
yeah.
what an inspiring story, Deanne.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I think one of thechallenges that, that many
people may face is trying tofigure it out.
and part of the opportunityperhaps for the advisor is to,
in addition to playing the roleof managing and, supporting the
financial piece, is perhapsexpanding into a role of, maybe
(34:08):
an agent of discovery wherethey're acting as a, a catalyst
for, guiding that discoveryprocess because each person's
retirement journey is different.
And if they can support andexploring possibilities, perhaps
that's an impact that they couldmake in addition to the
financial relationship.
Deanne Gage (34:27):
For sure.
I think it's very similar, likemy daughter, my older daughter
right now is going into grade11.
We're going to be, she has noidea what she wants to do with
her life.
So it's similar to figuring outwhat you want to do in
retirement, right?
What does she want to do?
It's a great word skill set.
is she like, what are her skillsthat she's strong with?
What are her skills that sheneeds improvement?
(34:48):
What are the things that she'salways wanted to do?
What are the things that areabsolute?
no.
it's a similar kind of process.
So maybe what it is justrevisiting these.
These things every few decadesor so, and that will help to
springboard what we want to doand what we may want to do in
retirement.
Like with my father, he alwaysliked fixing things.
(35:10):
He just didn't want to do themessings of the cars anymore.
He wanted to work in a nice, anice, it didn't matter if it was
summer or winter, a nice shopthat was quiet.
And air conditioned or heated,like a garage, which you get the
gamut, right?
Yasmin Nguyen (35:26):
Well, Dianne, it has been such a pleasure and
it's, thank you so much forsharing your insights and
wisdom.
How can people, read more ofyour work and find out more
about you and the projects thatyou're working on?
Deanne Gage (35:39):
I am on LinkedIn.
Um, I'm a reporter for GlobeAdvisor, which is Globe Advisor.
That's A D V I S O R dot com.
My articles are all in there.
Yasmin Nguyen (35:53):
Great.
We'll include those in the shownotes then as well.
Kathleen, any final thoughts aswe wrap?
Kathleen Mundy (35:59):
You know, Yasmin, I'm always, so happy
when we meet and have adiscussion and find such strong
alignment.
With the programs that we'vedeveloped, the assessments that
we have available as tools, andto deal with all of what we've
gone through for the last fewyears, and to have someone
(36:21):
aligned so closely with thetheories and the outcomes, what
the positive outcomes can be, isalways a real pleasure.
And Deanna, I'm so glad we met.
And I'm so glad that you'veagreed to meet again with us
today and share your experienceand all of your expertise with
our listening audience.
I'm sure they're going to behappy to listen along.
(36:42):
So thank you so much.
Deanne Gage (36:44):
Thank you, Kathleen and Yasmin for having me.
I had a great time.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:47):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(37:08):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
In one of the things in my article that I
mentioned was about workmates,because there are a number of
people who figure well, I'lljust get together with.
My workmates, like I did before,only I don't have the stress of
the job anymore.
Not realizing that those werethe things that binds, the
friendship You're not in thetrenches anymore, so you don't
really necessarily relate to thesame scenarios anymore.
(00:23):
So yeah, it's fine to gettogether with a workmate from
time to time, but it's probablynot going to be Often anymore.
So as you say, yes, you're goingto have to sort of evolve and
find other friendships.
Through volunteering, throughshared activities, but that can
be difficult for people too.
(00:44):
It's just, if you aren't reallysure how to proceed with that,
which is why it's important tohave some sort of a plan before
you even retire, if there's ahobby, for example, that you've
always been passionate about andwanted to get off the ground,
rather than waiting forretirement, not a bad idea to
start right before, To makesure, in fact, that this is
(01:04):
something that is going to keepyou going for the eight hours a
day, if you will, because maybeit's not your passion.
Maybe you're like, yeah, it's,it's not something that's going
to sustain, right?
But if you start it before,maybe you start a network at the
same time, get to know people.
And at least you have somethingto retire to.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:26):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:46):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:10):
today we have a special guest.
Our special guest is Deanne Gageand Deanne is a reporter for the
Globe Advisor at Globe and Mail.
She has specialized in personalfinance issues for more than two
decades.
Her articles have also appearedin the Toronto Star,
Morningstar.
(02:31):
ca, Chatelaine.
Is that right, Deanne?
Morning Sense and Today's Parentform and Advisors Edge.
So we're delighted to have you.
Welcome Deanne.
Thank you so much for being herewith us.
Well,
Deanne Gage (02:48):
here.
Yasmin Nguyen (02:49):
Deanne, we would love for you to share a little
bit about your personal careerjourney and what's led to where
you are today.
Deanne Gage (02:58):
Sure.
thanks again for having me.
I have been reporting onfinance, personal finance for
the past two decades.
when I started covering theindustry, I was pretty young at
that time.
And frankly, the advisors wereyounger.
The clients that they wereserving were very much in the
(03:18):
accumulation phase of theirsaving, meaning they were saving
up for retirement.
So a lot of the stories that Ireported on at that time were
about ways to make sure you haveenough money to save for
retirement.
Now, two decades later, what I'mfinding is people have enough
(03:41):
money for their retirement.
But they're not really sure ofwhat retirement looks like.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:46):
that's such a big topic to these days.
we're so many of us are takingthe time working with advisors
to prepare.
That financial security piece.
But oftentimes we do overlookthe life transitions that
happen.
And I remember Deanna in arecent conversation, we had
that, you're working on aspecial project right now where
you're exploring what causespeople to retire early.
(04:08):
could you share a little bitabout that project that you're
working on and what sort ofinsights you've discovered so
far,
Deanne Gage (04:15):
So back to even 20 years ago when I first started
covering, retirement trends, atthat time there was a lot of ads
like Freedom 55, older coupleson the yacht are, going to
exotic locales.
Two decades later now, presentday, a lot of people are
retiring and a lot of people aremaintaining that lifestyle, but
(04:35):
there's a fair number of peoplewho are not, who have been
forced to retire early due tolife curveballs that have
happened.
By life curveballs, perhapsthere was a divorce, which cut
into their nest egg.
Perhaps there's, there were somehealth care challenges either
with themselves or their spouseor even a child.
(04:58):
Perhaps there was a job loss oftheir adult child and they were
called to help with, raisingtheir grandchildren.
these are some of the issuesthat can come up.
And people are glad, obviously,to, to deal with these life
curveballs as they come up, butat the same time, it's not the
retirement that they envisioned.
(05:21):
Oh, and another big one iscaring for aging parents.
And, A lot of people, decide toretire early and they think,
okay, I'm going to spend sometime caring for my aging
parents, but I'll still havesome time to do things on my
bucket list.
But the aging parents, care istaking a lot more than they
would have anticipated when theymade the decision to retire
early.
Kathleen Mundy (05:40):
Deanne.
Some of what we're talking aboutare the realities of what the
real retirement journey iscompared to what they thought
And what are the majordifferences when you have
conversations with people, whenyou're interviewing them, if you
could just share with us acouple of stories on what those
might be.
Deanne Gage (05:57):
Sure.
let's take divorce as anexample.
perhaps a couple has beenmarried a really long time and,
Both spouses or maybe one spousethinks that they are working
towards the same page as theother spouse.
They assume they're going toretire together.
They have the same vision fortravel or what have you, but
maybe the other spouse feels themarriage has run its course, has
(06:22):
a different vision completely.
I hear clients talking aboutbeing blindsided, by the spouse
deciding to file for divorce.
I don't necessarily subscribe tothat theory, but it may be more
that they were working towards.
Different goals all along.
(06:42):
And they assumed that theirgoals were similar, but that
wasn't really the case.
So, they divorce and there'sless money to do what they want.
And suddenly maybe you can'tafford to live in the city.
That you want in the house thatyou want, you have to downsize
to a condo, perhaps you have toleave the city or a town that
(07:04):
you've lived in your whole lifecompletely just to be able to
afford to have some semblance ofa retirement.
Kathleen Mundy (07:13):
Those seem like really impractical obstacles to
overcome, and certainly it wouldshake your foundation if you
found yourself in that positionwithout having any
communication.
No one wants to be blindsided atall.
So, can imagine how devastatingthat would be.
Deanne Gage (07:31):
Another example would be, let's go back to the
aging parents.
what I hear quite a bit is, justthe.
vast underestimating of how muchtime it requires to be a
caregiver to your aging parents.
Perhaps down the road theythought, I'll enroll my parents
in a long term care facility.
(07:54):
Perhaps I'll get some help forthem to offset the help that I
am providing.
Both of those options are veryexpensive.
And frankly, it can be veryhard, even if you can afford it,
it can be very hard to find theright fit.
So a lot of people grasping withthat as well.
(08:17):
yes, retirement isn't what Ithought it would be.
I'm spending all my time being acaregiver.
when is there time for me?
Yasmin Nguyen (08:23):
That's something that I can so relate with.
I am part time taking care of myparents who are in their 80s as
well.
And my sister, thank goodness,is just down the street and she,
is incredibly supportive.
we've got doctor's appointmentsalmost every week and there's
also an emotional toll.
That, that happens along the wayas, in addition to the time
(08:44):
that, impacts our experience.
I know Kathleen, you've, takenon that type of role as well.
Kathleen Mundy (08:51):
Yes, Yasmin, I have.
And I have to be really honest.
Looking at it, my background isbusiness.
So for me, it's always bottomline and I'm always very
conscientious of expenses andprojections.
And we have been absolutelyblessed because my mother in law
is 96.
And in the journey that she'shad with, a retirement home and
(09:15):
consequential, changes, thecost, as you mentioned, is
escalating each and every year.
And it's incredibly difficult tofind a good fit as well.
So, those stressors, in additionto perhaps subsidizing some of
these costs, um, can only addburdens and quite frankly I can
(09:36):
see where, being very honesthere, how that might accelerate
the option of divorce.
because those are the kinds ofthings that come up
unexpectedly, you don'tnecessarily plan for them.
yet those are things in lifethat you have to deal with and
their responsibilities that Ibelieve as a family, you need
to, um, step into
Yasmin Nguyen (09:59):
Now, Deanne, I remember you mentioning in one
of your articles that anotherchallenge that typically comes
up in retirement is the sense ofloneliness.
And I was curious to learn alittle bit more of why that was
an important topic for you tocover.
And also, what were some of thekey insights that you gained as
(10:19):
you were researching and writingthat particular article?
Deanne Gage (10:24):
Yes, definitely a very key issue in retirement.
It tends to come about when youdon't have a plan for what you
want to do in the next chapterof your life.
There's a number of people wholook forward to retiring.
They've worked their whole life.
frankly, a lot of them are burntout and they figure when they
(10:48):
retire, they'll figure out whatthe plan is once they retire.
But what happens is the daysbecome weeks, which become
months and years, and there'sstill no plan.
And meanwhile, years gone by,you've watched all the TV.
Maybe you've got together withfriends for lunch from time to
(11:08):
time, played the occasional gameof golf or tennis or what have
you, but you've discovered thatthe days are pretty long.
you have to fill a whole dayand, work used to take up a lot
of your time and it's, you haveto have a plan to how you're
going to fill up those 8 to 10hours.
I found through my research thatit was especially an issue.
(11:30):
For men, because what advisorshave found is that women tend to
keep up with friendships orfamily.
They were always the people whoorganized the social events in
their lives.
And if they had a spouse, ahusband, for example, the
(11:52):
husband would just go along withwhatever his wife.
Had planned, but what happensis, especially if the man is now
divorced, now widowed, there'sno one there to really fill that
role anymore.
And they, they just have to haveissues with how to plan with
(12:13):
that.
Because the other thing is thatthey may be very, Good at
getting together with friendsthrough like minded activities,
say, golf, tennis, hockey,sports.
But one thing that advisorsfound is that's only good for so
long because when your bodycatches up with you as you get
(12:33):
older, maybe you can't do thoseactivities with any other
people.
Real frequency anymore, andbecause the friendships in those
cases was based around a sharedactivity.
They didn't really go deeperthan that.
So there's no really, there's noreal glue to keep it to keep
things together.
Yasmin Nguyen (12:52):
I can imagine that when we're in our careers
and work or work world, thatthere's this constant flow of
new potential relationships thatget developed.
There's, ways to meet new peopleand get introduced to different
circles as well.
But once we've stepped out ofthat particular, phase, it seems
(13:13):
unless we're proactive aboutgetting out there and meeting
new people, slowly as, like youmentioned, our bodies start to
decline and we're withdrawingfrom some of those activities,
we're finding out our circlescontinue to get smaller And
we're not replacing or at least,introducing new relationships in
our lives.
Deanne Gage (13:32):
In one of the things in my article that I
mentioned was about workmates,because there are a number of
people who figure well, I'lljust get together with.
my workmates, like I did before,only I don't have the stress of
the job anymore.
Not realizing that those werethe things that tie the binds,
like the ties that people, thebasis that kept the friendship
(13:53):
going, if you will.
You're not in the trenchesanymore, so you don't really
necessarily relate to the samescenarios anymore.
So yeah, it's fine to gettogether with a workmate from
time to time, but it's probablynot going to be Often anymore.
So as you say, yes, you're goingto have to sort of evolve and
(14:14):
find other friendships.
Through volunteering, throughshared activities, but that can
be difficult for people too.
It's just, if you aren't reallysure how to proceed with that,
which is why it's important tohave some sort of a plan when,
before you even retire, ifthere's a hobby, for example,
(14:35):
that you've always beenpassionate about and wanted to
get off the ground, rather thanwaiting for retirement, not a
bad idea to start right before,To make sure, in fact, that this
is something that is going tokeep you going for the eight
hours a day, if you will,because maybe it's not your
passion.
maybe you start a network at thesame time, get to know people.
(14:55):
And at least you have somethingto retire to.
Kathleen Mundy (14:58):
Deanna, one of the things you mentioned a
little while ago, fell into whatwe call and categorize family
dynamic when all of a suddenchildren return home or you're
faced with the need to, helpWith child care, grandparents
helping with grandchildren, howdo you, or how did you find, the
(15:19):
conversation evolved when youwere doing research about that
particular aspect of theretirement journey?
Deanne Gage (15:26):
Yeah, it's funny.
Many advisors mentioned thatwith their clients, there was a
great divide between, mothersand fathers, especially, uh,
mothers wanted to financiallyhelp their adult children.
They wanted to take a moreactive role in the
grandchildren's lives.
Not to say that the fathersdidn't want to do that as well,
(15:48):
but it wasn't.
Necessarily a primary focus forthe fathers.
They still wanted to take thatbig trip and they saw that as
more of a priority.
whereas if, children needed theassistance, they were willing to
do it, but not only to a certainextent.
So that also raises a good pointof another article that I did,
(16:12):
which looked at couples.
And they're differing views ofretirement and what they like,
what it looks like.
And that's one of the examplesof that.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:22):
What were some of the differences that, that you
discovered as it relates to the,their visions for retirement?
Deanne Gage (16:29):
So okay, grandchildren would be one.
The biggest one would be when toretire.
So you may have a situationwhere one spouse wants to retire
yesterday.
Another spouse perhaps is reallystill going strong in their
career and it's not just notready.
The one spouse retires, theother still keeps working.
(16:54):
What's that dynamic look like athome?
Who's responsible for householdchores during that time?
Issues like that.
Should even if both of them doretire, perhaps one of the
spouses was, The one that wasresponsible for household
management for, uh, the durationof their marriage.
(17:17):
So both spouses decide toretire.
There's still that householdmanagement piece that has to
take place.
Is it a much of a retirement forthe person who always managed
that if they're still doing itall?
these are real issues that comeup with people and they're not
discussed or they don't tend tobe discussed until you're in it.
(17:39):
And if they're not resolved,then.
It could lead to divorce.
Kathleen Mundy (17:45):
Well, Yasmin, do you recall when we did a focus
group, this exact circumstancewas highlighted by one of the
attendees.
And, brought every point thatyou've just made to light at
that time.
And it's absolutely consistentwith what their feeling was
precisely.
Yasmin Nguyen (18:05):
Yeah, when we're not having these conversations,
there's these expectations ineach partner's mind that can be
conflicting as you shared thereDeanna and that causes an You
know the con conflict and a lotof times I would imagine
sometimes we're not equippedwith how to have those types Of
conversations with each other
Deanne Gage (18:24):
I would concur with that.
we're not equipped with it atall.
And I think for so long,consciously or not, we been
bombarded with those ads of thatcouple on the yacht, on the
dock, in that fancy locale.
And we thought, subconsciously,this is what life will be like,
(18:45):
but the reality has been, um, alot of life curveballs and
frankly, a lot of, internalconflict among spouses, trying
to make things work.
In their next chapter with eachother,
Kathleen Mundy (18:59):
And I, it's interesting.
I had a conversation at a socialsetting last evening and exactly
this happened as well, becauseone partner was able to retire
and yet the other partner said,Whoa, I'm not even close to
wanting to retire.
So there was a real.
I don't want to say push pull,but it was a stumbling block
(19:22):
that, my question to them was,how do you see it resolution
happening?
And they just didn't want totalk about it.
They were just going to let ittry and work itself out.
Have you ever found with yourresearch that was a successful
outcome?
Deanne Gage (19:39):
there does come to be a breaking point at some
point, because if issues areleft to fester, may not be right
away, might be a year or fiveyears down the road.
But I feel like they would needto have a discussion with
somebody, whether it's not theadvisor or counselor to help
them work through the issue.
(20:02):
But I feel like it's only nowwhere people are starting to
talk more about these types ofissues.
My loneliness was something thatI feel it's not a new issue, but
it's being talked about a lotmore, in general, it's been
called the silent killer.
For example, it's not just aboutretirement.
(20:22):
It's about as you get older ingeneral, just people are more
isolated and.
That has a direct impact on yourhealth and also it has to do
with, demographics.
For example, there are more oneperson households than any other
(20:42):
kind of household in Canadaright now.
That's at around twenty nine,thirty percent of one people
living alone.
so those networks, those,networks, that sense of
community become very important.
Yasmin Nguyen (20:58):
That, there's been so much scientific research
that where it has evenarticulated that, loneliness is
becoming a prevalent epidemicthat we're facing in society.
and sometimes it's not justabout.
The number of people that wehave around us, but I've even
experienced situations whereyou're surrounded by people, but
(21:19):
you still feel lonely becausethere's a lack of intimacy or a
deeper connection andunderstanding of perhaps what
you're going through.
Is that something that you'vediscovered as well, Deanne?
Deanne Gage (21:31):
Absolutely.
Finding that deeper connectionwith somebody, especially later
in life.
It's very difficult.
Both parties have to be willingto put the work in and not
everyone is.
And so that definitely can leadto that feeling of isolation.
Yasmin Nguyen (21:51):
I'm curious, Deanne, you've spoken with a lot
of Advisors and professionals.
And what role do you see thatadvisors can play in order to
support their clients, in thistransition or this journey
beyond The financial or theplanning piece of, their
relationship.
Deanne Gage (22:12):
Advisors have started asking more deeper
questions of their clients.
In the past, I feel it was moreabout getting them to the
retirement phase in terms of theactual having the money in
place.
Now that the money is in place,there's a lot more questions,
such as what do you, how do youplan on spending your days in
retirement?
(22:32):
And if they don't have ananswer, trying to drill down.
There are also more advisorsthat are arming their, their
directory with counselors, lifecoaches, relationship coaches,
in addition to the more, triedand true accountants, lawyers,
(22:53):
just to make sure that they havepeople that, their clients can
talk to.
I really feel that there's ashift and they understand the
importance of these issuesbecause if you don't address
them, your retirement is goingto be miserable.
And I think everyone wants tohave something that is
successful.
(23:14):
And yes, you may have to dealwith life curveballs in your
retirement.
But if you can have at leastpart of it be enjoyable, seeing
your friends, going on theoccasional trip, pursuing that
hobby you've always wanted todo.
And that's a good thing.
It's not always, it's not alwayseasy, but what
Kathleen Mundy (23:33):
To the point of having, I guess a team behind a
financial advisor or moneymanager, and you suggest that
they are looking now fortransition coaches or other
helpers that might work withtheir clients.
Do you find it to be an easyprocess for them to find these
solution providers or thesecoaches?
(23:54):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
What is the temperament in thatspace right now?
Deanne Gage (24:04):
a word of mouth type of situation.
So there may be clients who haveworked through issues such as
about isolation, conflict in themarriage, and the advisor may
ask that person for a referralof the professionals who helped
them, just somebody to add onthe directory.
(24:26):
There's a lot of that kind ofthing that may take place.
As well, they may know of themas well, but it's a bit of give
and take.
To be honest, I
Yasmin Nguyen (24:37):
Deanne, Kathleen and I had spoken with a number
of different advisors and,especially in our field of work
here, and it's been aninteresting observation that,
the, there is a curiosity andthere, for a select number of
advisors, there's adoptionaround this more holistic, non
financial relationship withtheir clients.
But what we've observed is thatit's still an emerging market.
(25:00):
There's still a lot of folksthat, are still hesitant to,
have these types ofconversations with your, their
clients.
And I'm curious from yourconversations, What are some
things that hold advisors backfrom crossing that threshold and
having that deeper life planningconversation with their clients?
Deanne Gage (25:22):
think that if you're an advisor who mainly
earns your income by sellingproduct, then you're probably
going to be focused on theassets directly, the
accumulating, and maybestrategies for withdrawing the
money in retirement.
However, if you're acomprehensive financial planner,
(25:44):
perhaps you're paid by the hour.
Thank you.
Or you're paid a percentage ofthe assets.
There's room in there for, likeadvice is, it has, maybe has
nothing to do with money at all.
It may have to do with, may haveto do with life coaching, may
have to do with taxes.
It may have to, that's part ofthe reason why people pay for
professional advice.
It's not just about gatheringthe assets.
(26:06):
And ensuring you have enough.
It's about, I'm lonely and Ihave no idea what I want to do
in retirement.
Is there somebody I can talk toabout this?
Do you have any suggestions forme of seniors groups that I
could meet with?
I could talk, you could talk toyour advisor about that.
And they would be getting paidby the hour or what have you,
(26:27):
but they would be giving youinvaluable advice as invaluable
as if they were recommending aparticular product.
it's still advice.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:37):
imagine that there's an opportunity to
realign some of the reward andincentive structures for
organizations to reinforce, orat least incentivize, these
types of conversations.
and I would also imagine that indoing so it impacts businesses
in a positive way, whether it bedeeper connections, more
referral, retention, and otherways that actually also affects
(27:01):
the, the bottom line of thebusiness.
Deanne Gage (27:03):
I think high end advisors are definitely having
these conversations because theyget it.
They want to understand theirwhole clients.
They understand an engagedclient is a good thing.
An engaged client is going to bea happy client.
Happy client is going to singyour praises as an advisor.
They are going to refer you toother people and say, look what
(27:26):
an advisor did for me.
And it may have nothing to dowith money.
It may have to do with areferral to a life coach that
changed that person's life andmade them have a more successful
retirement.
Kathleen Mundy (27:38):
Oh, I have a quick question then about that.
Just exactly the situation.
If I was a client, whatquestions would I ask if I were
interviewing advisors?
What questions might I pose toensure that I found someone that
would fulfill those needs?
Deanne Gage (27:53):
That's a good question.
I think I would probably want toknow, most clients, they
actually are very concernedabout the money piece.
So if, beyond that, I think theywould probably ask questions.
About how do you ensure, likewhat looks like a successful
(28:16):
retirement to you?
I might ask a question,something like that of the
advisor.
And if the advisor is saying,Oh, having 10 million yacht, the
dock, that's all they talkabout.
Maybe that's a no, but if theperson talks about, level of
engagement, giving back to thecommunity, just different
(28:38):
things.
Then maybe that can, maybe thatwould be a trigger something in
somebody thinking, maybe thisperson can help me to formulate
what I hope will be a successfulretirement for me.
Kathleen Mundy (28:51):
That's an excellent question.
That really is.
Thank you for sharing that withus and for thinking so clearly
on the spot.
Deanne Gage (28:58):
I
Yasmin Nguyen (29:00):
we've covered so much today in just our short
conversation, Deanna, that we'vetouched on the experience of
isolation and loneliness thatretirees unexpectedly, have, as
well as the dynamics of couplesand, the differences that they
might have for their vision ofretirement, as well as those
that may be finding themselvesout.
retiringly, retiringunexpectedly as well.
(29:22):
Are there, is there anythingelse that, that, from your
research and your, conversationsthat you feel is important to,
to share that is the reality ofwhat retirement might be for
some people?
Deanne Gage (29:37):
would hope that advisors would emphasize that
the ideal retirement looksdifferent, depending on the
individual.
retirement doesn't have to beloud and flashy.
A great retirement can begetting together with your group
of friends every morning forcoffee.
Doing some volunteer work,coming home and spending, having
(30:00):
lunch with your spouse, spendingtime, getting through that
mystery series, novels, a seriesof novels that you've been
trying to get through, uh, butnever had the time to do.
It doesn't have to be a bigflashy thing.
I would hope the right advisorwould really drill down with the
(30:21):
client and determine what wouldwork best for them.
Kathleen Mundy (30:26):
I love that answer.
That is the perfect tie a bow onwhat should happen.
And I love that you mentionedthat it doesn't have to be.
Flashy.
It doesn't have to be loud.
I think that's one of the thingsthat many people expect of
others.
what are you going to do nowthat you're retired?
Where are you going to go?
And you almost feel as thoughyou have to decide quickly to
(30:54):
answer that question or they'regoing to think less of you.
But I love the fact I'm going toread that book, I'm going to
spend some time on myself, andthat's really important in life,
especially at this point.
Deanne Gage (31:08):
tell one more story, and this is a personal
one.
My father was retired for 22years.
I saw him retire when I was ateenage and I, this is well
before I would have even beencovering the issue or anything.
But, my parents were divorced atthat newly divorced at that
time.
I think he certainly hadexpectations for what retirement
(31:31):
looked like with my mother andhim were still together, but
they weren't.
So it was just him.
I think he struggled a bit withdeciding what to do first, just
hanging around the house a lot,not doing much of anything.
He was a mechanic, and lovedfixing things.
(31:51):
Just, TVs, VCRs at the time,microwaves, different things
like that.
anyway, in the end, after twoyears of kind of not doing much
of anything, he ended up takinga course, for, in that area,
small engines or something likethat, and then he didn't want to
still work on cars anymore, eventhough that's what he always did
(32:15):
because.
Like working on cars, it's canbe cold in a garage and it can
be hard on your body, but hestill liked fixing things.
And the long and the short of itis he ended up going to work, or
volunteer his time, part time ata fix it shop, fixing people's
microwaves, TVs, and stuff likethat.
(32:38):
And That gave him great pleasureto give back and to help out, to
help mentor the young, theyounger, people fixing the
things because he understoodmore of the older technology
than they did, and it gave him aplace to be honest, for a couple
days a week.
So he's utilizing his skills,helping to mentor.
(33:01):
And it gave him something to doand that helped us springboard
other things that he wanted todo in retirement.
So sometimes it's just figuringout what that one little thing
is that just to help fill yourdays.
Kathleen Mundy (33:16):
that ticked all the boxes for him and many of
them that we discuss, with ourgroup and thank you so much for
that story, because that reallysums up exactly what we're
hoping everyone can do is find aplan and initiate a The
beginning of that plan and younever know where it'll take you.
And as you said, it took him to,to areas, whether it be meeting
(33:37):
new friends or, initiating newconversations and mentorship,
which is delightful.
that's a wonderful thing that hewas able to plan and execute.
Yasmin Nguyen (33:47):
yeah.
what an inspiring story, Deanne.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I think one of thechallenges that, that many
people may face is trying tofigure it out.
and part of the opportunityperhaps for the advisor is to,
in addition to playing the roleof managing and, supporting the
financial piece, is perhapsexpanding into a role of, maybe
(34:08):
an agent of discovery wherethey're acting as a, a catalyst
for, guiding that discoveryprocess because each person's
retirement journey is different.
And if they can support andexploring possibilities, perhaps
that's an impact that they couldmake in addition to the
financial relationship.
Deanne Gage (34:27):
For sure.
I think it's very similar, likemy daughter, my older daughter
right now is going into grade11.
We're going to be, she has noidea what she wants to do with
her life.
So it's similar to figuring outwhat you want to do in
retirement, right?
What does she want to do?
It's a great word skill set.
is she like, what are her skillsthat she's strong with?
What are her skills that sheneeds improvement?
(34:48):
What are the things that she'salways wanted to do?
What are the things that areabsolute?
no.
it's a similar kind of process.
So maybe what it is justrevisiting these.
These things every few decadesor so, and that will help to
springboard what we want to doand what we may want to do in
retirement.
Like with my father, he alwaysliked fixing things.
(35:10):
He just didn't want to do themessings of the cars anymore.
He wanted to work in a nice, anice, it didn't matter if it was
summer or winter, a nice shopthat was quiet.
And air conditioned or heated,like a garage, which you get the
gamut, right?
Yasmin Nguyen (35:26):
Well, Dianne, it has been such a pleasure and
it's, thank you so much forsharing your insights and
wisdom.
How can people, read more ofyour work and find out more
about you and the projects thatyou're working on?
Deanne Gage (35:39):
I am on LinkedIn.
Um, I'm a reporter for GlobeAdvisor, which is Globe Advisor.
That's A D V I S O R dot com.
My articles are all in there.
Yasmin Nguyen (35:53):
Great.
We'll include those in the shownotes then as well.
Kathleen, any final thoughts aswe wrap?
Kathleen Mundy (35:59):
You know, Yasmin, I'm always, so happy
when we meet and have adiscussion and find such strong
alignment.
With the programs that we'vedeveloped, the assessments that
we have available as tools, andto deal with all of what we've
gone through for the last fewyears, and to have someone
(36:21):
aligned so closely with thetheories and the outcomes, what
the positive outcomes can be, isalways a real pleasure.
And Deanna, I'm so glad we met.
And I'm so glad that you'veagreed to meet again with us
today and share your experienceand all of your expertise with
our listening audience.
I'm sure they're going to behappy to listen along.
(36:42):
So thank you so much.
Deanne Gage (36:44):
Thank you, Kathleen and Yasmin for having me.
I had a great time.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:47):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(37:08):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
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