March 23, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen explore the evolving concept of retirement for Generation X. Special guest Shelly McIntyre shares her insights on how Gen Xers are breaking away from traditional retirement models and creating vibrant, purposeful lives post-career. With extensive experience in coaching, Shelly offers practical advice on dealing with change, embracing new opportunities, and building a strong support network. Tune in to hear real stories, expert tips, and a deeper understanding of what retirement means for today's Gen Xers.
00:00 Rethinking Retirement: Gen X's New Approach
01:21 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show
02:04 Introducing Shelly McIntyre: Reinventing Retirement
02:56 Gen Xers' Unique Retirement Challenges
06:52 Navigating Corporate Loyalty and Personal Identity
13:15 The Role of Grief in Life Transitions
16:30 Planning for a Vibrant Future
31:37 Finding Your People: Building a Support System
36:44 Final Thoughts and Connecting with Shelly
About Shelley McIntyre
Shelley coaches post-corporate GenXers who want to design intentional and vibrant third acts. After a long career in technology and corporate strategy, Shelley pivoted to coaching, inspired by seeing smart people get in their own way.
Shelley believes it’s never too late to reinvent yourself and reclaim your identity from corporate narratives.
Through her coaching, she offers potent insights into change, grief, and identity, equipping clients to navigate life’s transitions with self-compassion.
Shelley taps into her love of the arts and making stuff to create unique, transformative coaching experiences.
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelley-mcintyre/
Website: https://shelleymcintyre.com/
Elizabeth Kupferman's "Ladder of Trust" series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE_Vo8HTTI4&list=PLu8p59ShPS96xgDL1XFr6iYUJo_VTr0c7
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shelley McIntyre (00:00):
they grew up with that model, watching their
(00:03):
parents get older, watchingtheir.
Grandparents have a very clearlike now we stop moment and I
think there was an assumption asGen Xers came up that, that
would be something that wouldhappen to them as well.
And then I think they startedgrappling with the.
(00:24):
I don't want to go on cruises,but I don't want to golf.
So what does that mean forretirement for us?
If we don't want to do thethings that our parents did.
so then they had to go into thisinnovation moment of, okay, if
we're throwing out that scriptof retirement means moving to
(00:47):
the villages in Florida and justhaving dinner parties and
golfing, if we can throw thatout.
Then what opens up for usbecause there's no precedent,
we're inventing this, and wehave to keep being vibrant and
healthy for this extendedlifespan that we have.
(01:10):
So what do we get to do?
It's not like a, what do we haveto do now?
What do we get to do?
And I think that's a big shiftand a change of conception for
Gen Xers.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:21):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:41):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:04):
Our special guest today isShelly McIntyre.
Shelly coaches post corporateGen Xers who want to design
intentional and vibrant thirdacts.
After a long career intechnology and corporate
strategy, Shelly pivoted tocoaching inspired by seeing
smart people get in their ownway.
Shelly believes it's never toolate to reinvent yourself And
(02:27):
reclaim your identity fromcorporate narratives.
Through her coaching, she offerspotent insights into change,
grief, identity, equippingclients to navigate their life
transitions with selfcompassion.
Shelly taps into her love of thearts and making stuff to create
unique, transformativeexperiences.
(02:48):
Coaching experiences shelly.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Thank you so much.
for being with us
Shelley McIntyre (02:53):
Happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Yasmin Nguyen (02:56):
shelly, i've been super excited about our
conversation today mainlybecause i'm a gen xer myself and
when I was looking at thestatistics I didn't realize that
there are over 65 million genxers in the u.
s.
And then another 7 million incanada, and so this is Becoming
an important topic that we'restarting to hear a lot about
(03:17):
these days.
And so I'm curious, Shelly, howdid you get inspired by working
and focusing on this particulargeneration?
Shelley McIntyre (03:25):
Well, first, just my own lived experience and
seeing a lot of, resources andmedia around Aging baby boomers.
And yep, it's a really hugegeneration.
And yes, all of those issues arerelevant.
And then people would like skipover Gen X and then talk about
the millennials.
(03:46):
And I was like, Hey, you know,uh, 65 million of us.
It can't possibly be a forgottengeneration.
And where are the resources foraging Gen Xers?
And where are the books andwhere are the courses?
And I just didn't see them.
(04:06):
And it got me more interested inseeing what my cohort was up to
and trying to figure it out.
Because.
What we're heading into is sovastly different from what our
parents experienced and what theboomers are experiencing, too.
Kathleen Mundy (04:25):
this is going to be really interesting for me
because I have a Gen Xer as oneof my kids and sometimes it's
difficult to understand howcertain conversations find kind
of common ground because there'sa different, absolutely a
different outlook.
So I'm excited about this aswell.
(04:45):
Yes.
Not just for a personalapproach, but certainly there's,
I quite frankly didn't knowthere was so many.
I'm shocked.
Yasmin Nguyen (04:55):
and I've noticed at least from my peers as well
too, there, there's a certainunique experience that us Gen
Xers are having as it re, as itrelates to this concept of
retirement and.
That and what's coming up.
And I'm curious, Shelley, whatare some of the things that
you've noticed that Gen Xers areuniquely experiencing that may
(05:15):
be different from some of theboomers, or maybe the
millennials that are a littlebit further away from retirement
Shelley McIntyre (05:22):
Well, first their financial reality is
different.
a lot of Gen Xers are looking attheir own finances and thinking
I can't just stop like myparents did.
So they need to get creative tohave some kind of income stream
as they head into their lateryears.
So financial reality is one bigdifference from the boomers.
(05:44):
they might share that realitywith millennials who right now
can hardly buy a house.
so that is changing veryrapidly.
And another is that they stillfeel so young and vibrant.
And not, I'm not saying that theboomers don't feel young and
vibrant because I think many ofthem do.
But, I don't even know if I feellike a full fledged adult yet,
(06:08):
and I'm about to be 55.
So, the idea of stopping seemsridiculous to a lot of people in
this generation.
They still have a ton of energy,they have creative spirit, they
feel connected to pop cultureand everything that's going on.
And so heading into, a life ofleisure.
(06:30):
Seems off brand for the GenXers.
Kathleen Mundy (06:35):
that's an important point, but many of
these Gen Xers were also raisedwith the idea of career loyalty.
And as they experienced multipleeconomic downturns, job
insecurity, shifting retirementlandscapes, how has that shaped
their view outside of thefinancial aspect?
Shelley McIntyre (06:52):
Oh yeah, so I think a lot of the Gen Xers have
the experience, the livedexperience of learning that
loyalty in the corporate worldflows only one way.
And that's from employee toemployer.
And the party that benefits inthat scheme is the employer.
They go through these layoffs.
(07:14):
And they have these jolts ofrealizing, Oh, all of my loyalty
didn't pay off.
It wasn't actually valued in theend because these are economic
reasons that companies are doingshufflings and restructurings.
So if my loyalty doesn't countfor anything, who else could I
(07:37):
be loyal to?
Like if I have this.
The spirit of loyalty in myheart.
Could I turn that around and beloyal to who I am at my core as
I make my decisions for thefuture?
Kathleen Mundy (07:54):
Wow.
I understand my daughter morenow.
Shelley McIntyre (07:59):
Say more about that.
Kathleen Mundy (08:00):
I've been asking her about retirement and she
quite frankly is your age.
And she, what I hear is, Oh no,the company needs me.
And I'm thinking, my gosh, Idon't know that the company is
needing you to the extent thatthey couldn't live or manage
without you.
And she's worked so hard.
(08:21):
her entire life and she'syouthful as you are.
And she, yeah, that pop culturereally resonated when you
mentioned that, because that iswho she is.
And now they're looking atbuying a home in Florence,
Italy.
And she's just, she's got somuch enthusiasm, but energy as
well.
And yet I worry.
(08:42):
there's you don't have to be oldto help to have health issues,
and she has a little bit ofthat, but now that you've said
that, you know, it makes meponder what our next
conversation might be.
So I, that's really interesting.
That's very helpful.
I appreciate that.
Shelley McIntyre (09:00):
Yeah.
Yasmin Nguyen (09:01):
along the same vein, Shelley, how do you help
guide?
clients that have that loyaltymindset and how do you help
them, having those conversations
Shelley McIntyre (09:10):
I think the first thing is to acknowledge
that when we step away fromsomething with this strange
sensation that our loyaltywasn't valued, we've been
discarded.
When we're talking to people whohave been through a big
transition, let's say they'vegotten laid off or they've left
a job that they were very.
(09:32):
Loyal to for a long time, theygo through a grieving process
and acknowledging that it isactually grief that they're
experiencing is a reallyimportant first step because
they've experienced a loss ofautonomy of feeling really good
at something and a lot ofrelationships and that's like a
(09:56):
triple whammy loss.
Those are the three.
Core pillars of what we need tofeel content as human beings.
So we really go back tofoundation, like the foundation
level when I work with clientsof what did you lose?
What are you going to miss?
What are you not going to miss?
(10:17):
And who are you now?
Who are you now outside of thecontext of that corporate world?
Because we all like, I used tocall it work drag.
we have this persona.
That we adopt and maybe oureyebrows are a little higher and
maybe we speak in a lilt at workthat we don't use with our
(10:37):
friends outside of work.
So can we start dropping themask even though that mask was
very protective, can we startdisintegrating it a little to
get back to who we are at ourcore before we try to embark in
something new?
(10:57):
Because if we bring the maskwith us to our next activity, we
won't have fully processedwhat's happened.
We won't have fully gone throughthe grieving process that we
need to.
and we'll bring some of thatbaggage from the old world into
the new world.
And that's not helpful, becauseyour pain waits for you.
(11:19):
It'll come up at some point.
So you might as well startdealing with it as soon as
possible.
Kathleen Mundy (11:25):
when you're talking about how they see
themselves, what kind oflimiting beliefs do you see that
they have most often?
Shelley McIntyre (11:33):
Well, one of them.
and this really goes for peoplewho are leaving corporate is
that their value as a person isconnected to a title or status.
Or a company.
And if they are, if they don'thave that VP title anymore, or
(11:57):
they're not affiliated with somefancy consulting firm, then
they're just taking up space.
So I see that as a real limitingbelief that they need to figure
out their value outside of.
Their corporate identities,which is all made up anyway,
(12:19):
right?
All the titles are made up allthe status, all the hierarchy.
It's all made up.
So when they can figure out thatit was all made up and that just
by.
Being alive on this beautifulearth, they are valuable human
beings and can do a millionthings.
Then the world opens up to them.
(12:40):
So that's one limiting belief.
another is I'm too old to startover and age ain't nothing but a
number.
And What is 55 to me now lookedreally different than 55 for my
mom.
we look at like statistics ofwho's starting up the most
(13:02):
successful businesses and it'speople in their forties and
fifties.
Those are the ones that are morelikely to succeed because people
are coming in with experienceand wisdom.
Yasmin Nguyen (13:17):
Shelley, you mentioned a little bit earlier
about the losses that peopleexperience.
And I believe in our Previousconversations, you mentioned you
had a background in grief.
Is that correct?
Shelley McIntyre (13:27):
Yeah, after I left consulting, I was really
looking for where meaningful,important conversations were
happening.
Because I felt like inconsulting, we were skipping
over the important stuff a lotof times.
And when I went out and starteddoing some research about these
important conversations, I, Veryquickly found the death care
(13:50):
community and people who areworking in death care innovation
and funeral directors and griefcoaches and I was like, oh, hang
on a second.
I think there's a connectionhere So I decided to leave
consulting and the first thing Idid was get training as a grief
(14:11):
coach to really fully understandhow grief Beyond death works and
how You know, the process thatgrievers go through as they
grapple with losing somethingimportant to them, whether that
was a person a relationship withsomebody who's still living,
(14:36):
it's all the same.
And I think we discount.
this aspect of grief when we'regoing through transformations or
transitions, grief is part ofevery single one.
Even a marriage, like evengetting married, even good
stuff.
You're losing something.
you're, losing a piece ofautonomy.
You're losing your old routines.
(14:57):
You're losing the house thatbugged you, but you were still
so familiar with it.
There's something that'schanging that we need to look at
really clearly and say, I missyou, I love you, I forgive you,
I want to apologize forsomething, like there's a little
process that we can all gothrough in order to be ready for
(15:20):
what's next.
Yasmin Nguyen (15:22):
Wow, that's really profound, Shelly.
you've really helped expand theimpact of grief because so often
we think of grief as losingsomeone.
And especially, folks in theboomer generation, really it's,
so many of us are losing closefriends and relatives as well.
But what you've expanded, thisimpact of grief to our, not only
(15:43):
our identity, but so many otherway and areas, it's such an
important perspective to, tonotice how, we have an
opportunity to honor and to letgo of, experiences and
relationships and things in lifethat, have, moved to the next
stage.
Shelley McIntyre (15:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's this myth aboutfinding closure.
we never find closure.
People are always with us.
These situations have becomepart of us.
They get wired into our DNA intowho we are.
We can find a sense ofcompletion.
With jobs and people andsituations and places.
(16:20):
but the idea that we're going tojust close it out and move on.
It's not a thing.
It's not a thing.
Everything is all always stayswith us.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:30):
Shelly, when we think about the planning process
for Gen Xers, what have you seento be the most important things
to consider when planning thisparticular phase?
Shelley McIntyre (16:44):
number one is always what aspects of your
health have you ignored for thelast little while, because.
When people are coming out ofthe corporate world or a long
career, they might shakethemselves off and realize, Oh,
my knees are shot or I've haveforgotten to exercise for the
(17:04):
last 10 years.
if we're rebuilding thefoundation of a house here, we
have to start with the core,the, your body.
so planning starts.
at home and your first home isyour body.
So I always ask about health andthen also for the planning and
(17:27):
the foundation building aspect,we go back to core values and
the essence of who you are andwhat strengths that you're
bringing, because people need tobe shored up a little bit in
this time of transition beforethey can even start planning
something new.
They might be smarting fromlosing a job and feeling like
(17:51):
they don't have a lot to offerthe world heading forward.
So we need to build up thosestores, before they start going
off and planning.
So health, your values.
your essence of who you are atyour very best.
And then who are the supportersaround you who are going to help
you through this?
(18:12):
Because that social circle alsoneeds to be there.
And A lot of people have thisrude awakening after they leave
careers that they don't hearfrom their work friends anymore.
And that is another loss.
They thought these people thatthey worked side by side with
for years and years were theirclose friends.
(18:34):
And as soon as they leave thejob, it's crickets.
That's a super difficult momentfor people when they realize.
Oh, I've been neglecting myfriends outside of work because
I had been relying on my workpeople for that social
interaction that I neededthrough happy hours and hanging
out at the office and, the watercooler conversations.
(18:58):
All that's gone now, and theyhave to rebuild that social
network as well.
this is all part of thefoundational work that needs to
happen before you can startfiguring out, Oh, I'm going to
start a company, I'm going towrite a book, I'm going to do
whatever I'm going to do.
Yasmin Nguyen (19:13):
Yeah, that's so common for people to focus on,
what am I going to do inretirement versus the
foundational?
piece that you talk about, whichis the physical piece, and then
also the emotional and therelationship components there.
and then exploring, what is itthat I'm going to do?
So it's backwards in some ways.
Kathleen Mundy (19:32):
Okay, I do have a question.
What was the biggestmisconception about Gen Xers
retirement that you wish morepeople understood?
Shelley McIntyre (19:42):
think there was a misconception that it
would look really similar totheir parents retirement because
they grew up with that model,watching their parents get
older, watching their.
Grandparents have a very clearlike now we stop moment and I
think there was an assumption asGen Xers came up that, that
(20:05):
would be something that wouldhappen to them as well.
And then I think they startedgrappling with the.
I don't want to go on cruises,but I don't want to golf.
So what does that mean forretirement for us?
If we don't want to do thethings that our parents did.
(20:26):
And so then they had to go intothis innovation moment of, okay,
if we're throwing out thatscript of retirement means
moving to the villages inFlorida and just having dinner
parties and golfing, if we canthrow that out.
Then what opens up for usbecause there's no precedent,
(20:49):
we're inventing this, and wehave to keep being vibrant and
healthy for this extendedlifespan that we have.
So what do we get to do?
It's not like a, what do we haveto do now?
What do we get to do?
And I think that's a big shiftand a change of conception for
(21:10):
Gen Xers.
Kathleen Mundy (21:13):
You bring up a good point.
And Shelly, just expanding onthat, can you relate a story for
us, for me specifically, becauseI'm trying to understand my
daughter.
when you were working withsomeone, can you just give us
some idea of what their storymight have been and how it
unfolded with your guidance?
Shelley McIntyre (21:31):
Yeah, I work with a client who was running
her own design business for over20 years.
And, running your own businesscan be really exhausting.
And everything is on you.
You're the provider of all ofthe work.
(21:51):
And she was just getting burnedout.
And She wasn't like old enoughto retire yet.
She's still Gen X.
She's still got a lot of workingyears ahead of her, but she
needed something dramaticallydifferent to happen.
And as we dug into like hervalue system and her identity
(22:14):
and what, if she could wave amagic wand, what would she be
doing instead?
And she was just like, all Iwant to do is ride my bike and
dance because she was a amateurballroom dancer.
She had started dancing when shewas 48 and it's all she wanted
to do.
Her work was annoying her.
(22:35):
She wanted to set it aside.
And so we started what if youcould do that?
what if we could work toward youspending all your time riding
your bike and dancing?
And she realized in the courseof our work together, Oh, I have
all this experience as a graphicdesigner and a writer.
(22:56):
I know a lot about dance.
I'm an excellent researcher.
And she thought.
Do I need to like, maybe Ishould share my knowledge with
others.
And she ended up writing a bookabout how to get into ballroom
dance for middle aged women,essentially.
(23:16):
And it was everything from howto do the makeup to where to buy
the shoes to etiquette on thedance floor.
Like this whole guide, we workedtogether for a year over the
course of her.
Conceiving of this book andpublishing it,
Kathleen Mundy (23:33):
Wow.
Shelley McIntyre (23:35):
it was a great exercise for her because she
really got to dive into what shetruly loved, what brought her a
lot of energy and passion and.
the funny thing about it is thatonce she was done with the book,
it ignited this new energy forthe business.
And so now she's taking thebusiness in a slightly different
(23:57):
direction where it's not all onher anymore.
She's bringing in help.
She's getting people on board towork with her so that she can
optimize the time that she'sspending on the business and
ride her bike and dance more.
things are not going to unfoldas people expect, but if they're
(24:17):
willing to cast off somenarrative of how it's supposed
to go and try stuff like getsquishy and creative and weird.
All these new avenues open upfor people where they don't
expect them to.
Kathleen Mundy (24:34):
Quite frankly, I think what you're, you've
touched on is an amazing void.
For a lot of people, how do wehelp them?
How do we give them the tools,the framework, you probably have
found some of those that arevery helpful in this
transformational period thatthey're going.
Can you reflect on some of thosefor
Shelley McIntyre (24:53):
Yeah, really the core ones that I use are a
values exercise.
I really like the Brene Brownvalues explorer exercise that
and I take.
almost every client through it,where they really get down to
the core set of values.
and Brene has a great kind ofbonus exercise that she calls
(25:16):
the BS detector, where you lookat these values and you say, how
do you walk the walk of thevalues?
Like, how do you actually, itcan't just be an idea that you
like.
How do you live it?
because personal values aren'tjust ideas, they're tie breakers
(25:38):
and helpers to when you have tomake major decision in your
life.
can you choose the side thatreinforces your values?
And if you do that every time,you're going to end up in a more
authentic life.
Life that feels where you feelthe most like yourself.
So that values exercises one, anessence exercise that my coach
(26:02):
did with me on our very firstday together that I now do with
all of my clients is.
we are, we don't necessarily,we're not the best self
reporters of our essence likethe qualities that shine through
when we're working at our best,who knows about that?
(26:23):
The people who love us.
Our closest friends are familymembers.
So we go through this exercisewhere you, as the client, you
ask other people in your life,how would you describe me when
I'm operating at my best?
And what the clients find justthrough the asking is they get
(26:47):
this mirror back of this.
Beautiful side of them wheretheir friends and their family
members are saying, you are sogenerous and thoughtful.
Your joy about things reallyshines through when you love an
idea, you want to tell everybodyabout it.
(27:07):
So they get all of this materialback.
And I take that and mung it downto five words.
Five essence words and then thatbecomes another guide for us as
we're working together if youcould you know, you've got this
conflict or you have thisdecision if you could show up as
(27:32):
the full creative generouscaring joyful person that you
are What would you do next?
And it's a reminder, like we, wego through these cycles, right?
Where we have days or weeks ormonths where we're feeling like,
Oh, I'm not worthy.
This is, I'm not good atanything.
(27:53):
And that essence is a touchpoint.
remember who you are, and notonly who you are at your core,
but what other people see andyou have received evidence for.
This is an evidence basedapproach.
So we can't just write off ouressence.
If we can embody that essence inthese moments, choose on the
(28:17):
side of our values.
We're going to be on a betterpath.
Yasmin Nguyen (28:21):
That's such a powerful process, Shelly.
it goes counter to so manydecades of work in life where
we're in this reactive,responsive to our environments
and expectations.
And here we've carved out thisspace and time to do some deep
reflection to know who we areand where we are and based on
(28:44):
our values to then determineWhat to do next, what our
alignment is and really gettingthat important clarity.
And it sounds like that's aprocess that you really help
take people through to, todetermine what their North star
is in many ways.
Shelley McIntyre (29:02):
Yeah.
And it's, it's not a one playergame here, right?
When we do the essence exercise,that's inherently relational.
It's not just who am I alone inmy room?
Who am I when I'm with you orwhen I'm.
With you because it's different,right?
when people reflect on who weare at our best, one person, one
(29:27):
of my friends is going to reportcertain things about me that she
experiences and another formerwork colleague is going to
reflect back really differentaspects, but they're both true,
I think that's anothermisconception.
We have all of this media aboutbeing your authentic self,
(29:50):
right?
So we're awash in kind of thispressure to be authentic and
everybody has to find theirauthenticity and bring your
whole self to work.
We have multiple authenticselves.
We contain multitudes.
There is not one true way to be.
(30:10):
I am my authentic self with mybrother, but I'm also my
authentic self with my friendCarol.
My personality is slightlydifferent.
What we talk about is slightlydifferent, the way that we
operate in the world, butthey're both true.
So I think This pressure thatpeople get to bring your
(30:33):
authentic self to each situationand be that one authentic
straight line person is not truebecause we have authenticity in
so many different relationships.
But understanding the core ofthat, if we can tap into our
essence and our values, can putus on alert for when
(30:54):
inauthenticity is creeping in.
Or we're finding that mask isgoing back on and our eyebrows
are raising again and we're,operating a foot out from our
faces.
It helps us ground back intothat foundation that spawns a
hundred authentic selves.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:17):
That's a really important distinction.
Thank you for sharing thatShelley.
Kathleen Mundy (31:20):
That's so impactful.
I can't believe how much I'velearned through our
conversation.
and I'm wondering, if you couldgive Gen Xers a piece of advice
to prepare for this journey thatthey're about to be on at some
point in their life, what wouldthat be?
Shelley McIntyre (31:37):
find your people.
Really, this is not a soloadventure.
We all need support peoplearound us.
It's not who you used to workwith.
I'll tell you that right now.
It's not them.
maybe you made a friend thatwill continue through that, the
transformation that you're aboutto go on.
(31:58):
But it's more likely the peoplethat you have outside of work,
let them know.
What's going on with you?
Be honest, because putting on abrave face and just hunkering
down and getting through is nothelping you, get the support you
need.
And it's not helping yourfriends understand how to
(32:18):
support you and be there for youbecause they want to.
gather your people.
and nurture those relationships,proximity and consistency are
friends here.
So it's, it might soundcounterintuitive as a planning
step, but paying attention toyour support system and paying
(32:41):
attention to your health isground zero for that.
Yasmin Nguyen (32:45):
Shelley, as people are looking for.
their people, is there anythingin particular that they want to
be mindful of to at least beable to identify and notice
that, Hey, this might be one ofmy people.
Shelley McIntyre (32:59):
Yeah, there's a tool that I often use called
the ladder of trust.
And that was created by atherapist named Elizabeth
Kupferman.
And It's a really handy toolwhere there is a ladder between
you and everybody else, and asyou climb the ladder, when you
rise, you're going up inintimacy and the way you climb
(33:22):
that ladder is through behavioronly.
Never words.
So let's say that I'm making anew friend, my new friend
Yasmin, and I say, Hey, do youwant to get coffee?
And Yasmin says, Oh yeah, coffeesounds great.
I'll call you.
And Yasmin never calls me.
We have not gone up a rung.
(33:42):
we have stayed down here, but ifI think that we have gone up a
rung in the ladder of trust, andI think, oh yeah, because Yasmin
said that he wants to getcoffee, we're better friends
now.
and then I might escalate, HeyYasmin, I know we didn't get
together for coffee, but howabout a movie?
(34:03):
And Yasmin says, Oh yeah, great,I'll call you.
And I might think, Oh great, nowhe wants to see a movie.
So we've gone up the ladder oftrust toward intimacy.
But Yasmin hasn't actually movedat all, he's still down here.
If I start getting resentfulAbout Yasmin not showing up and
(34:25):
I'm feeling pain about that.
That's all on me.
The space between the rungs.
is pain, and I am responsiblefor that if I have risen without
somebody else.
So if Yasmin calls me and says,Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I've been so busy.
(34:45):
Let's go to a movie tomorrow.
I bought the tickets.
See you there.
And he shows up.
up he comes.
So it, we rise through theseladders.
And the goal isn't to have everysingle person, at the top rung,
right?
We need people at every rung ofthe ladder of trust.
(35:07):
Like you've got friends that yousee for coffee once every six
months and that's, and you haveother friends that you see
really consistently that youplay pickleball with, that you
hang out, that you go to a bookclub with, and that's fine.
Trouble comes when we have theseimbalanced relationships where
we're giving a lot more thanwe're receiving.
(35:30):
Or we're receiving and we areactually like, they're great,
but they're a lot, right?
So paying attention to whereyour relations, relationships
land on this ladder of trust.
Just keep an eye on it becauseyou it takes a long time to
(35:51):
really make a friend.
there's this great book calledplatonic that talks about adult
friendships and the author.
The author says.
Through research that it takesabout 200 hours of time together
to really form a solid lastingfriendship.
200 hours is a lot of time andAre you willing to invest that
(36:15):
in somebody who's going to go tothe top of that ladder with you,
or are you okay having people atslightly less contact, slightly
less intimacy, but we needpeople in our environments that
we see consistently that we talkto on a regular basis, to get
(36:35):
through whatever transition iscoming next.
We can't do it alone.
Kathleen Mundy (36:42):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:44):
Shelly, you've shared so many incredible
insights and tools and, I'mcurious, how can our listeners
connect with you and learn moreabout your work?
Shelley McIntyre (36:55):
Thank you for asking.
I mainly write on LinkedIn andso you can find me.
I'm Shelly McIntyre on LinkedInand my website is
shellymcintyre.
com and I've started to post alittle bit on Blue Sky, but I'm
not totally there yet.
So LinkedIn and the website arethe primary.
Yasmin Nguyen (37:15):
Great.
We'll make sure to include thosein the show notes so people can
connect with you directly then.
any final thoughts as we wrap upour conversation today?
Shelley McIntyre (37:25):
I love what focus you two have on kind of
reinvention, the reinventionaspect of retirement.
So I really love what you'redoing.
I encourage you to keep going.
And, the more Gen X folks thatwe can all reach and say, we see
you, you are not the forgottengeneration, the better shape
(37:45):
we're all going to be in.
Kathleen Mundy (37:47):
yeah, I'm almost speechless, which never happens,
but, I am so I'm just sothrilled that we had this
conversation.
you've provided so much deepinformation and.
introspective, tools and thoughtprocesses.
I've really appreciated it.
It's been a
Shelley McIntyre (38:04):
Thank you so much.
I really had a good time.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:06):
yeah, thank you Shelly for tying the bow and
bringing all the piecestogether.
Cause I think the initialintention was to explore what
was unique about the Gen X andyou've definitely shared that.
And also you've also shown how.
Regardless of what generationyou're in, we all experience a
similar type of journey andthere are some valuable and
important opportunities forsupport and guidance along the
(38:28):
way and that you are doing thatmagnificent work that's really
helping so many people.
So I'm just so grateful that weget a chance to share this with
everyone.
Shelley McIntyre (38:37):
Thanks so much.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:38):
Awesome.
Thank you for taking the time tojoin us today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(38:59):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
they grew up with that model, watching their
(00:03):
parents get older, watchingtheir.
Grandparents have a very clearlike now we stop moment and I
think there was an assumption asGen Xers came up that, that
would be something that wouldhappen to them as well.
And then I think they startedgrappling with the.
(00:24):
I don't want to go on cruises,but I don't want to golf.
So what does that mean forretirement for us?
If we don't want to do thethings that our parents did.
so then they had to go into thisinnovation moment of, okay, if
we're throwing out that scriptof retirement means moving to
(00:47):
the villages in Florida and justhaving dinner parties and
golfing, if we can throw thatout.
Then what opens up for usbecause there's no precedent,
we're inventing this, and wehave to keep being vibrant and
healthy for this extendedlifespan that we have.
(01:10):
So what do we get to do?
It's not like a, what do we haveto do now?
What do we get to do?
And I think that's a big shiftand a change of conception for
Gen Xers.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:21):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:41):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:04):
Our special guest today isShelly McIntyre.
Shelly coaches post corporateGen Xers who want to design
intentional and vibrant thirdacts.
After a long career intechnology and corporate
strategy, Shelly pivoted tocoaching inspired by seeing
smart people get in their ownway.
Shelly believes it's never toolate to reinvent yourself And
(02:27):
reclaim your identity fromcorporate narratives.
Through her coaching, she offerspotent insights into change,
grief, identity, equippingclients to navigate their life
transitions with selfcompassion.
Shelly taps into her love of thearts and making stuff to create
unique, transformativeexperiences.
(02:48):
Coaching experiences shelly.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Thank you so much.
for being with us
Shelley McIntyre (02:53):
Happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Yasmin Nguyen (02:56):
shelly, i've been super excited about our
conversation today mainlybecause i'm a gen xer myself and
when I was looking at thestatistics I didn't realize that
there are over 65 million genxers in the u.
s.
And then another 7 million incanada, and so this is Becoming
an important topic that we'restarting to hear a lot about
(03:17):
these days.
And so I'm curious, Shelly, howdid you get inspired by working
and focusing on this particulargeneration?
Shelley McIntyre (03:25):
Well, first, just my own lived experience and
seeing a lot of, resources andmedia around Aging baby boomers.
And yep, it's a really hugegeneration.
And yes, all of those issues arerelevant.
And then people would like skipover Gen X and then talk about
the millennials.
(03:46):
And I was like, Hey, you know,uh, 65 million of us.
It can't possibly be a forgottengeneration.
And where are the resources foraging Gen Xers?
And where are the books andwhere are the courses?
And I just didn't see them.
(04:06):
And it got me more interested inseeing what my cohort was up to
and trying to figure it out.
Because.
What we're heading into is sovastly different from what our
parents experienced and what theboomers are experiencing, too.
Kathleen Mundy (04:25):
this is going to be really interesting for me
because I have a Gen Xer as oneof my kids and sometimes it's
difficult to understand howcertain conversations find kind
of common ground because there'sa different, absolutely a
different outlook.
So I'm excited about this aswell.
(04:45):
Yes.
Not just for a personalapproach, but certainly there's,
I quite frankly didn't knowthere was so many.
I'm shocked.
Yasmin Nguyen (04:55):
and I've noticed at least from my peers as well
too, there, there's a certainunique experience that us Gen
Xers are having as it re, as itrelates to this concept of
retirement and.
That and what's coming up.
And I'm curious, Shelley, whatare some of the things that
you've noticed that Gen Xers areuniquely experiencing that may
(05:15):
be different from some of theboomers, or maybe the
millennials that are a littlebit further away from retirement
Shelley McIntyre (05:22):
Well, first their financial reality is
different.
a lot of Gen Xers are looking attheir own finances and thinking
I can't just stop like myparents did.
So they need to get creative tohave some kind of income stream
as they head into their lateryears.
So financial reality is one bigdifference from the boomers.
(05:44):
they might share that realitywith millennials who right now
can hardly buy a house.
so that is changing veryrapidly.
And another is that they stillfeel so young and vibrant.
And not, I'm not saying that theboomers don't feel young and
vibrant because I think many ofthem do.
But, I don't even know if I feellike a full fledged adult yet,
(06:08):
and I'm about to be 55.
So, the idea of stopping seemsridiculous to a lot of people in
this generation.
They still have a ton of energy,they have creative spirit, they
feel connected to pop cultureand everything that's going on.
And so heading into, a life ofleisure.
(06:30):
Seems off brand for the GenXers.
Kathleen Mundy (06:35):
that's an important point, but many of
these Gen Xers were also raisedwith the idea of career loyalty.
And as they experienced multipleeconomic downturns, job
insecurity, shifting retirementlandscapes, how has that shaped
their view outside of thefinancial aspect?
Shelley McIntyre (06:52):
Oh yeah, so I think a lot of the Gen Xers have
the experience, the livedexperience of learning that
loyalty in the corporate worldflows only one way.
And that's from employee toemployer.
And the party that benefits inthat scheme is the employer.
They go through these layoffs.
(07:14):
And they have these jolts ofrealizing, Oh, all of my loyalty
didn't pay off.
It wasn't actually valued in theend because these are economic
reasons that companies are doingshufflings and restructurings.
So if my loyalty doesn't countfor anything, who else could I
(07:37):
be loyal to?
Like if I have this.
The spirit of loyalty in myheart.
Could I turn that around and beloyal to who I am at my core as
I make my decisions for thefuture?
Kathleen Mundy (07:54):
Wow.
I understand my daughter morenow.
Shelley McIntyre (07:59):
Say more about that.
Kathleen Mundy (08:00):
I've been asking her about retirement and she
quite frankly is your age.
And she, what I hear is, Oh no,the company needs me.
And I'm thinking, my gosh, Idon't know that the company is
needing you to the extent thatthey couldn't live or manage
without you.
And she's worked so hard.
(08:21):
her entire life and she'syouthful as you are.
And she, yeah, that pop culturereally resonated when you
mentioned that, because that iswho she is.
And now they're looking atbuying a home in Florence,
Italy.
And she's just, she's got somuch enthusiasm, but energy as
well.
And yet I worry.
(08:42):
there's you don't have to be oldto help to have health issues,
and she has a little bit ofthat, but now that you've said
that, you know, it makes meponder what our next
conversation might be.
So I, that's really interesting.
That's very helpful.
I appreciate that.
Shelley McIntyre (09:00):
Yeah.
Yasmin Nguyen (09:01):
along the same vein, Shelley, how do you help
guide?
clients that have that loyaltymindset and how do you help
them, having those conversations
Shelley McIntyre (09:10):
I think the first thing is to acknowledge
that when we step away fromsomething with this strange
sensation that our loyaltywasn't valued, we've been
discarded.
When we're talking to people whohave been through a big
transition, let's say they'vegotten laid off or they've left
a job that they were very.
(09:32):
Loyal to for a long time, theygo through a grieving process
and acknowledging that it isactually grief that they're
experiencing is a reallyimportant first step because
they've experienced a loss ofautonomy of feeling really good
at something and a lot ofrelationships and that's like a
(09:56):
triple whammy loss.
Those are the three.
Core pillars of what we need tofeel content as human beings.
So we really go back tofoundation, like the foundation
level when I work with clientsof what did you lose?
What are you going to miss?
What are you not going to miss?
(10:17):
And who are you now?
Who are you now outside of thecontext of that corporate world?
Because we all like, I used tocall it work drag.
we have this persona.
That we adopt and maybe oureyebrows are a little higher and
maybe we speak in a lilt at workthat we don't use with our
(10:37):
friends outside of work.
So can we start dropping themask even though that mask was
very protective, can we startdisintegrating it a little to
get back to who we are at ourcore before we try to embark in
something new?
(10:57):
Because if we bring the maskwith us to our next activity, we
won't have fully processedwhat's happened.
We won't have fully gone throughthe grieving process that we
need to.
and we'll bring some of thatbaggage from the old world into
the new world.
And that's not helpful, becauseyour pain waits for you.
(11:19):
It'll come up at some point.
So you might as well startdealing with it as soon as
possible.
Kathleen Mundy (11:25):
when you're talking about how they see
themselves, what kind oflimiting beliefs do you see that
they have most often?
Shelley McIntyre (11:33):
Well, one of them.
and this really goes for peoplewho are leaving corporate is
that their value as a person isconnected to a title or status.
Or a company.
And if they are, if they don'thave that VP title anymore, or
(11:57):
they're not affiliated with somefancy consulting firm, then
they're just taking up space.
So I see that as a real limitingbelief that they need to figure
out their value outside of.
Their corporate identities,which is all made up anyway,
(12:19):
right?
All the titles are made up allthe status, all the hierarchy.
It's all made up.
So when they can figure out thatit was all made up and that just
by.
Being alive on this beautifulearth, they are valuable human
beings and can do a millionthings.
Then the world opens up to them.
(12:40):
So that's one limiting belief.
another is I'm too old to startover and age ain't nothing but a
number.
And What is 55 to me now lookedreally different than 55 for my
mom.
we look at like statistics ofwho's starting up the most
(13:02):
successful businesses and it'speople in their forties and
fifties.
Those are the ones that are morelikely to succeed because people
are coming in with experienceand wisdom.
Yasmin Nguyen (13:17):
Shelley, you mentioned a little bit earlier
about the losses that peopleexperience.
And I believe in our Previousconversations, you mentioned you
had a background in grief.
Is that correct?
Shelley McIntyre (13:27):
Yeah, after I left consulting, I was really
looking for where meaningful,important conversations were
happening.
Because I felt like inconsulting, we were skipping
over the important stuff a lotof times.
And when I went out and starteddoing some research about these
important conversations, I, Veryquickly found the death care
(13:50):
community and people who areworking in death care innovation
and funeral directors and griefcoaches and I was like, oh, hang
on a second.
I think there's a connectionhere So I decided to leave
consulting and the first thing Idid was get training as a grief
(14:11):
coach to really fully understandhow grief Beyond death works and
how You know, the process thatgrievers go through as they
grapple with losing somethingimportant to them, whether that
was a person a relationship withsomebody who's still living,
(14:36):
it's all the same.
And I think we discount.
this aspect of grief when we'regoing through transformations or
transitions, grief is part ofevery single one.
Even a marriage, like evengetting married, even good
stuff.
You're losing something.
you're, losing a piece ofautonomy.
You're losing your old routines.
(14:57):
You're losing the house thatbugged you, but you were still
so familiar with it.
There's something that'schanging that we need to look at
really clearly and say, I missyou, I love you, I forgive you,
I want to apologize forsomething, like there's a little
process that we can all gothrough in order to be ready for
(15:20):
what's next.
Yasmin Nguyen (15:22):
Wow, that's really profound, Shelly.
you've really helped expand theimpact of grief because so often
we think of grief as losingsomeone.
And especially, folks in theboomer generation, really it's,
so many of us are losing closefriends and relatives as well.
But what you've expanded, thisimpact of grief to our, not only
(15:43):
our identity, but so many otherway and areas, it's such an
important perspective to, tonotice how, we have an
opportunity to honor and to letgo of, experiences and
relationships and things in lifethat, have, moved to the next
stage.
Shelley McIntyre (15:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's this myth aboutfinding closure.
we never find closure.
People are always with us.
These situations have becomepart of us.
They get wired into our DNA intowho we are.
We can find a sense ofcompletion.
With jobs and people andsituations and places.
(16:20):
but the idea that we're going tojust close it out and move on.
It's not a thing.
It's not a thing.
Everything is all always stayswith us.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:30):
Shelly, when we think about the planning process
for Gen Xers, what have you seento be the most important things
to consider when planning thisparticular phase?
Shelley McIntyre (16:44):
number one is always what aspects of your
health have you ignored for thelast little while, because.
When people are coming out ofthe corporate world or a long
career, they might shakethemselves off and realize, Oh,
my knees are shot or I've haveforgotten to exercise for the
(17:04):
last 10 years.
if we're rebuilding thefoundation of a house here, we
have to start with the core,the, your body.
so planning starts.
at home and your first home isyour body.
So I always ask about health andthen also for the planning and
(17:27):
the foundation building aspect,we go back to core values and
the essence of who you are andwhat strengths that you're
bringing, because people need tobe shored up a little bit in
this time of transition beforethey can even start planning
something new.
They might be smarting fromlosing a job and feeling like
(17:51):
they don't have a lot to offerthe world heading forward.
So we need to build up thosestores, before they start going
off and planning.
So health, your values.
your essence of who you are atyour very best.
And then who are the supportersaround you who are going to help
you through this?
(18:12):
Because that social circle alsoneeds to be there.
And A lot of people have thisrude awakening after they leave
careers that they don't hearfrom their work friends anymore.
And that is another loss.
They thought these people thatthey worked side by side with
for years and years were theirclose friends.
(18:34):
And as soon as they leave thejob, it's crickets.
That's a super difficult momentfor people when they realize.
Oh, I've been neglecting myfriends outside of work because
I had been relying on my workpeople for that social
interaction that I neededthrough happy hours and hanging
out at the office and, the watercooler conversations.
(18:58):
All that's gone now, and theyhave to rebuild that social
network as well.
this is all part of thefoundational work that needs to
happen before you can startfiguring out, Oh, I'm going to
start a company, I'm going towrite a book, I'm going to do
whatever I'm going to do.
Yasmin Nguyen (19:13):
Yeah, that's so common for people to focus on,
what am I going to do inretirement versus the
foundational?
piece that you talk about, whichis the physical piece, and then
also the emotional and therelationship components there.
and then exploring, what is itthat I'm going to do?
So it's backwards in some ways.
Kathleen Mundy (19:32):
Okay, I do have a question.
What was the biggestmisconception about Gen Xers
retirement that you wish morepeople understood?
Shelley McIntyre (19:42):
think there was a misconception that it
would look really similar totheir parents retirement because
they grew up with that model,watching their parents get
older, watching their.
Grandparents have a very clearlike now we stop moment and I
think there was an assumption asGen Xers came up that, that
(20:05):
would be something that wouldhappen to them as well.
And then I think they startedgrappling with the.
I don't want to go on cruises,but I don't want to golf.
So what does that mean forretirement for us?
If we don't want to do thethings that our parents did.
(20:26):
And so then they had to go intothis innovation moment of, okay,
if we're throwing out thatscript of retirement means
moving to the villages inFlorida and just having dinner
parties and golfing, if we canthrow that out.
Then what opens up for usbecause there's no precedent,
(20:49):
we're inventing this, and wehave to keep being vibrant and
healthy for this extendedlifespan that we have.
So what do we get to do?
It's not like a, what do we haveto do now?
What do we get to do?
And I think that's a big shiftand a change of conception for
(21:10):
Gen Xers.
Kathleen Mundy (21:13):
You bring up a good point.
And Shelly, just expanding onthat, can you relate a story for
us, for me specifically, becauseI'm trying to understand my
daughter.
when you were working withsomeone, can you just give us
some idea of what their storymight have been and how it
unfolded with your guidance?
Shelley McIntyre (21:31):
Yeah, I work with a client who was running
her own design business for over20 years.
And, running your own businesscan be really exhausting.
And everything is on you.
You're the provider of all ofthe work.
(21:51):
And she was just getting burnedout.
And She wasn't like old enoughto retire yet.
She's still Gen X.
She's still got a lot of workingyears ahead of her, but she
needed something dramaticallydifferent to happen.
And as we dug into like hervalue system and her identity
(22:14):
and what, if she could wave amagic wand, what would she be
doing instead?
And she was just like, all Iwant to do is ride my bike and
dance because she was a amateurballroom dancer.
She had started dancing when shewas 48 and it's all she wanted
to do.
Her work was annoying her.
(22:35):
She wanted to set it aside.
And so we started what if youcould do that?
what if we could work toward youspending all your time riding
your bike and dancing?
And she realized in the courseof our work together, Oh, I have
all this experience as a graphicdesigner and a writer.
(22:56):
I know a lot about dance.
I'm an excellent researcher.
And she thought.
Do I need to like, maybe Ishould share my knowledge with
others.
And she ended up writing a bookabout how to get into ballroom
dance for middle aged women,essentially.
(23:16):
And it was everything from howto do the makeup to where to buy
the shoes to etiquette on thedance floor.
Like this whole guide, we workedtogether for a year over the
course of her.
Conceiving of this book andpublishing it,
Kathleen Mundy (23:33):
Wow.
Shelley McIntyre (23:35):
it was a great exercise for her because she
really got to dive into what shetruly loved, what brought her a
lot of energy and passion and.
the funny thing about it is thatonce she was done with the book,
it ignited this new energy forthe business.
And so now she's taking thebusiness in a slightly different
(23:57):
direction where it's not all onher anymore.
She's bringing in help.
She's getting people on board towork with her so that she can
optimize the time that she'sspending on the business and
ride her bike and dance more.
things are not going to unfoldas people expect, but if they're
(24:17):
willing to cast off somenarrative of how it's supposed
to go and try stuff like getsquishy and creative and weird.
All these new avenues open upfor people where they don't
expect them to.
Kathleen Mundy (24:34):
Quite frankly, I think what you're, you've
touched on is an amazing void.
For a lot of people, how do wehelp them?
How do we give them the tools,the framework, you probably have
found some of those that arevery helpful in this
transformational period thatthey're going.
Can you reflect on some of thosefor
Shelley McIntyre (24:53):
Yeah, really the core ones that I use are a
values exercise.
I really like the Brene Brownvalues explorer exercise that
and I take.
almost every client through it,where they really get down to
the core set of values.
and Brene has a great kind ofbonus exercise that she calls
(25:16):
the BS detector, where you lookat these values and you say, how
do you walk the walk of thevalues?
Like, how do you actually, itcan't just be an idea that you
like.
How do you live it?
because personal values aren'tjust ideas, they're tie breakers
(25:38):
and helpers to when you have tomake major decision in your
life.
can you choose the side thatreinforces your values?
And if you do that every time,you're going to end up in a more
authentic life.
Life that feels where you feelthe most like yourself.
So that values exercises one, anessence exercise that my coach
(26:02):
did with me on our very firstday together that I now do with
all of my clients is.
we are, we don't necessarily,we're not the best self
reporters of our essence likethe qualities that shine through
when we're working at our best,who knows about that?
(26:23):
The people who love us.
Our closest friends are familymembers.
So we go through this exercisewhere you, as the client, you
ask other people in your life,how would you describe me when
I'm operating at my best?
And what the clients find justthrough the asking is they get
(26:47):
this mirror back of this.
Beautiful side of them wheretheir friends and their family
members are saying, you are sogenerous and thoughtful.
Your joy about things reallyshines through when you love an
idea, you want to tell everybodyabout it.
(27:07):
So they get all of this materialback.
And I take that and mung it downto five words.
Five essence words and then thatbecomes another guide for us as
we're working together if youcould you know, you've got this
conflict or you have thisdecision if you could show up as
(27:32):
the full creative generouscaring joyful person that you
are What would you do next?
And it's a reminder, like we, wego through these cycles, right?
Where we have days or weeks ormonths where we're feeling like,
Oh, I'm not worthy.
This is, I'm not good atanything.
(27:53):
And that essence is a touchpoint.
remember who you are, and notonly who you are at your core,
but what other people see andyou have received evidence for.
This is an evidence basedapproach.
So we can't just write off ouressence.
If we can embody that essence inthese moments, choose on the
(28:17):
side of our values.
We're going to be on a betterpath.
Yasmin Nguyen (28:21):
That's such a powerful process, Shelly.
it goes counter to so manydecades of work in life where
we're in this reactive,responsive to our environments
and expectations.
And here we've carved out thisspace and time to do some deep
reflection to know who we areand where we are and based on
(28:44):
our values to then determineWhat to do next, what our
alignment is and really gettingthat important clarity.
And it sounds like that's aprocess that you really help
take people through to, todetermine what their North star
is in many ways.
Shelley McIntyre (29:02):
Yeah.
And it's, it's not a one playergame here, right?
When we do the essence exercise,that's inherently relational.
It's not just who am I alone inmy room?
Who am I when I'm with you orwhen I'm.
With you because it's different,right?
when people reflect on who weare at our best, one person, one
(29:27):
of my friends is going to reportcertain things about me that she
experiences and another formerwork colleague is going to
reflect back really differentaspects, but they're both true,
I think that's anothermisconception.
We have all of this media aboutbeing your authentic self,
(29:50):
right?
So we're awash in kind of thispressure to be authentic and
everybody has to find theirauthenticity and bring your
whole self to work.
We have multiple authenticselves.
We contain multitudes.
There is not one true way to be.
(30:10):
I am my authentic self with mybrother, but I'm also my
authentic self with my friendCarol.
My personality is slightlydifferent.
What we talk about is slightlydifferent, the way that we
operate in the world, butthey're both true.
So I think This pressure thatpeople get to bring your
(30:33):
authentic self to each situationand be that one authentic
straight line person is not truebecause we have authenticity in
so many different relationships.
But understanding the core ofthat, if we can tap into our
essence and our values, can putus on alert for when
(30:54):
inauthenticity is creeping in.
Or we're finding that mask isgoing back on and our eyebrows
are raising again and we're,operating a foot out from our
faces.
It helps us ground back intothat foundation that spawns a
hundred authentic selves.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:17):
That's a really important distinction.
Thank you for sharing thatShelley.
Kathleen Mundy (31:20):
That's so impactful.
I can't believe how much I'velearned through our
conversation.
and I'm wondering, if you couldgive Gen Xers a piece of advice
to prepare for this journey thatthey're about to be on at some
point in their life, what wouldthat be?
Shelley McIntyre (31:37):
find your people.
Really, this is not a soloadventure.
We all need support peoplearound us.
It's not who you used to workwith.
I'll tell you that right now.
It's not them.
maybe you made a friend thatwill continue through that, the
transformation that you're aboutto go on.
(31:58):
But it's more likely the peoplethat you have outside of work,
let them know.
What's going on with you?
Be honest, because putting on abrave face and just hunkering
down and getting through is nothelping you, get the support you
need.
And it's not helping yourfriends understand how to
(32:18):
support you and be there for youbecause they want to.
gather your people.
and nurture those relationships,proximity and consistency are
friends here.
So it's, it might soundcounterintuitive as a planning
step, but paying attention toyour support system and paying
(32:41):
attention to your health isground zero for that.
Yasmin Nguyen (32:45):
Shelley, as people are looking for.
their people, is there anythingin particular that they want to
be mindful of to at least beable to identify and notice
that, Hey, this might be one ofmy people.
Shelley McIntyre (32:59):
Yeah, there's a tool that I often use called
the ladder of trust.
And that was created by atherapist named Elizabeth
Kupferman.
And It's a really handy toolwhere there is a ladder between
you and everybody else, and asyou climb the ladder, when you
rise, you're going up inintimacy and the way you climb
(33:22):
that ladder is through behavioronly.
Never words.
So let's say that I'm making anew friend, my new friend
Yasmin, and I say, Hey, do youwant to get coffee?
And Yasmin says, Oh yeah, coffeesounds great.
I'll call you.
And Yasmin never calls me.
We have not gone up a rung.
(33:42):
we have stayed down here, but ifI think that we have gone up a
rung in the ladder of trust, andI think, oh yeah, because Yasmin
said that he wants to getcoffee, we're better friends
now.
and then I might escalate, HeyYasmin, I know we didn't get
together for coffee, but howabout a movie?
(34:03):
And Yasmin says, Oh yeah, great,I'll call you.
And I might think, Oh great, nowhe wants to see a movie.
So we've gone up the ladder oftrust toward intimacy.
But Yasmin hasn't actually movedat all, he's still down here.
If I start getting resentfulAbout Yasmin not showing up and
(34:25):
I'm feeling pain about that.
That's all on me.
The space between the rungs.
is pain, and I am responsiblefor that if I have risen without
somebody else.
So if Yasmin calls me and says,Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I've been so busy.
(34:45):
Let's go to a movie tomorrow.
I bought the tickets.
See you there.
And he shows up.
up he comes.
So it, we rise through theseladders.
And the goal isn't to have everysingle person, at the top rung,
right?
We need people at every rung ofthe ladder of trust.
(35:07):
Like you've got friends that yousee for coffee once every six
months and that's, and you haveother friends that you see
really consistently that youplay pickleball with, that you
hang out, that you go to a bookclub with, and that's fine.
Trouble comes when we have theseimbalanced relationships where
we're giving a lot more thanwe're receiving.
(35:30):
Or we're receiving and we areactually like, they're great,
but they're a lot, right?
So paying attention to whereyour relations, relationships
land on this ladder of trust.
Just keep an eye on it becauseyou it takes a long time to
(35:51):
really make a friend.
there's this great book calledplatonic that talks about adult
friendships and the author.
The author says.
Through research that it takesabout 200 hours of time together
to really form a solid lastingfriendship.
200 hours is a lot of time andAre you willing to invest that
(36:15):
in somebody who's going to go tothe top of that ladder with you,
or are you okay having people atslightly less contact, slightly
less intimacy, but we needpeople in our environments that
we see consistently that we talkto on a regular basis, to get
(36:35):
through whatever transition iscoming next.
We can't do it alone.
Kathleen Mundy (36:42):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:44):
Shelly, you've shared so many incredible
insights and tools and, I'mcurious, how can our listeners
connect with you and learn moreabout your work?
Shelley McIntyre (36:55):
Thank you for asking.
I mainly write on LinkedIn andso you can find me.
I'm Shelly McIntyre on LinkedInand my website is
shellymcintyre.
com and I've started to post alittle bit on Blue Sky, but I'm
not totally there yet.
So LinkedIn and the website arethe primary.
Yasmin Nguyen (37:15):
Great.
We'll make sure to include thosein the show notes so people can
connect with you directly then.
any final thoughts as we wrap upour conversation today?
Shelley McIntyre (37:25):
I love what focus you two have on kind of
reinvention, the reinventionaspect of retirement.
So I really love what you'redoing.
I encourage you to keep going.
And, the more Gen X folks thatwe can all reach and say, we see
you, you are not the forgottengeneration, the better shape
(37:45):
we're all going to be in.
Kathleen Mundy (37:47):
yeah, I'm almost speechless, which never happens,
but, I am so I'm just sothrilled that we had this
conversation.
you've provided so much deepinformation and.
introspective, tools and thoughtprocesses.
I've really appreciated it.
It's been a
Shelley McIntyre (38:04):
Thank you so much.
I really had a good time.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:06):
yeah, thank you Shelly for tying the bow and
bringing all the piecestogether.
Cause I think the initialintention was to explore what
was unique about the Gen X andyou've definitely shared that.
And also you've also shown how.
Regardless of what generationyou're in, we all experience a
similar type of journey andthere are some valuable and
important opportunities forsupport and guidance along the
(38:28):
way and that you are doing thatmagnificent work that's really
helping so many people.
So I'm just so grateful that weget a chance to share this with
everyone.
Shelley McIntyre (38:37):
Thanks so much.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:38):
Awesome.
Thank you for taking the time tojoin us today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(38:59):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
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